The Sun. — London, England, 1822-07-19 00:00:00

ko\ *N6 1e4p),;17 Cklllttioay(r * ~ VV 1 NNA, v I. I ,-- c:o. ~,,, • C;;;::? . --._7.7- t * 0.. 1 •••,-.{i , C .. i rl ',''' , t., ---, . 1- . -:-, ' '., t • • A r ' NO six' 'dap Wit„ -'6---- ;";;: \ \7 's .;.,,,, ,p 4....-17 t- / - - ,(,--) <‘ rile- - t i 1 ( ;rI4III A-'N-• L'... , c..- . . (;'.5 a-yt NUMBER. 9329..] FRIDAY, JULY 19, 1822. PR/Ct StVENPENCt, OFFICE OF ORDNANCE, July ii, 1842. that the House would adopt measures for the relief of himself and all other persons in like circumstances. Mr. BERN.AL presented a Petition from the Publicans of Rochester, against the Beer Retail Bill. Mr. LENNARD presented a similar Petition from Ipswich. Mr. AttOGDEN, Mr. BASTARD, and Sir J. GRAHAM, also presented Petitions against the same Bill. guments against it, and now he was satisfied. Like the Ho nourable Alderman who had just sat down, he found the bresiers standing up as Counsel for the publicans, and no doubt' if they had a publican in the House he would stand up for his' lords and masters, the brewers. The disguise was easily seen through—these Gentlemen meant themselves, when they talk ed of others. In withdrawing the Bill, he begged to stiggeSt to the Chancellor of the Exchequer the propriety of considering during the recess, the pl.:Ling of a middle duty betwixt that of 2s. and 10s. One at 4s. or ss. would enable brewers to furnish an article of small beer considerably better than that which seemed to meet with general reprobation. Indeed, the small beer was diminishing so fast in quality that it vias absolutely in danger of becoming invisible-4A laugh.)L-.The people had the remedy in their own hands, and if the brewers were de termined to give up no part of their monopoly, he doubted not they Would use it. The Magistrates might dbninish the evil by licensing more houses—(Hear, hear !)—From that cheer he suspected that those interested in this . question, and who were wise in their generation, were of opinion that in this way no material change could be effected, as if a few more houses were licensed, it would be an easy matter for them to get the leases of those houses into their possession. The evil, howeVer, might be remedied by private.brewing ; but few were aware how easy, and at how cheap a rate, they might provide them selves with a wholesome beverage. The private brewers saved 30s. on the malt duty ; the retail profit ; the duty on the pub lican's license, which alone gave annually to the revenue no less than 000,900/. ; and besides all these advantages, a more whole some beverage would be obtained than cciuld now be purchas ed. The expence of brewing utensils did not exceed from 31. to 41. If a poor man.could not purchase them, let him join with his neighbours. They must, however, take care of the Court of Exchequer as they went on. They must not sell any portion of the beer they brewed, Init several joining to brew, and brewing in one of their houses, each under the present law might take away his share. They might brew in one another's houses in rotation. They must not lend their apparatus, but in the partnership he recommended, where each had a share in every part of the materials, this use of them, in concert, could not be considered a loan. He would strongly recommend it to country Gentlemen to give brewing utensils to the poor: They could not give their bounty abetter direction. There were .directions published for brewing, which would en able all classes 'to brew for themselves. These were to be had in a threepenny or sixpenny pamphlet, -in Mr. Cob bett's Sermon on the subject of brewing, or against drunken= ness, where the directions given were so plain that that he who , runs may read. Though he consented to withdraw this Bill for the present,. he was confidenothat ultimately it would pass, and confident he was that it would prove a most important boon, contributing alike to the wealth; health, and morals of the people. 'After a few words from Mr. Mo.wcx and Mr. LocKnanT, THE PRINCIPAL O F FICERS• gf His MA . JESTY'S ORDNANCE do hereby give Notice, that Proposals will be received at their -Office, in Pali-Mall, on er .before Friday,-theS6th of July instant, front such Persons a * may be willing to undertahe the Supply of HOSIERY ARTICLES, for servke of this Department for a period of rhre e Years, terminable at any time after the expiration of :he First Year, upon Three Months Notice being given by either Party. . MR. BORTH WICK'S CASE. Mr. ABERCROMBY gave notice, that he would on Tues day move for the production of the correspondence between the Lord Advocate and Mr. Hope, respecting the case of Mr. Borthwick, and also the opinion of Mr. Hope on the same sub ject, bearing date the 18th of March. A Message from the Lords brought their Lordships' consent to a variety of private and other Bills. . Patterns of the Articles may be viewed spun application at the Principal Storekeeper's Office in the Tower, and at the;Storekeeper's Office in theßoyal eirsenal at TY'oolwich. RECEIVERS-GENERAL BILL. • Mr. LUSHINGTON, upon the third reading of this Bill, moved that the following clause be added to it--" That not more than three Receivers-General shall be obliged to travel together." He moved this by way of " rider."—(.A laugh.) This clause was agreed to ; and on the question that the Bill should pass, Mr. Alderman WOOD declared, that he had entertained no idea that this Bill would have been brought forward to.day by the Hon. Gentleman. The Bill had passed through its former stages at one o'clock tn 'the morning, and other unseasonable hours, when little opportunity had been afforded for its discus sion. He particularly objected to the salaries which this Bill provided for the receivers. They were much too large ; being 1,5001. a piece for two of the principal ones. A Gentleman:in the city had made some time since an offer to collect the whole of the taxes for the City of London and the County of Middle-, sex for the consideration of 1,6001. a-year.—(Hear.)—With such an offer before them ' was the country to be burdenediwith this projected expence of 4,0001. and upwards on the same ac count? If the Hon. Gentleman opposite persisted, he (Mr. Wood) should be obliged to divide the House upon the ques tion. Four or five months had now elapsed since he first called the attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and through him of the Treasury, to the offer of Mr. Barber to collect 2,000,0001. for 1,6001. Neither. the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Lushirq in) nor the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exche quer, we presume), made any objections at the time ; and it was really not to be endured that that matter should be quite put out of sight and the present salaries agreed to. Mr. LUSHINGTON begged to inform the Hod. Gentle man, that nothing contained in this Bill was of such a nature as not to leave to the Lords of the Treasury the opportunity of hereafter considering whether for one of the Receivers-General therein intended, Mr. Barber might not be a very fit and pro per person. If the Hon. Alderman persisted in dividing the House at this stage of the Bill, he (Mr. Lushingtoro must really observe it would be of no advantage to the House, but only unnecessarily to delay the course of public business. Mr. HUME thought that the Hon.'Secretary for the Trea suryhad stated on a former day, that by this new Bill it was intended to have only two officers at the salary of 1,500/. a year each. By the evidence which had been _taken before the com mittee, it certainly did appear that only one officer might, sue- ficiently discharge the duty. However that might be, he had clearly understood that the principle of the Bill was, that no Re= ceiver-general should act by deputy ; that no i n div idual shoul d , be appointed Receiver-general if be was not prepared to .exe cute the office himself. Now, if the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Lushington) for one of these Receivers proposed to nominate Mr. Bagot—a gentleman who liad, indeed, been a Receiver general, but had never himself discharged the duties of a Re ceiver, and could not therefore be supposed to be conversant with them—in such a case he (Mr. Hume) contended that. Mi nisters must at once violate the principle of the Bill. Cer tain it was that two individuals might very well do the whole of the business contemplated by this Bill for 2000/, a year. Mr. P. MOORE considered the measure as nothing but a direct job.. Honourable Gentlemen should remember that they sat there as Trustees for the Public; and in that ca. pacity were bound in all appointments to which they might con. sent, to observe the strictest parsimony. If he hall not been misinformed,' there was at this moment an actual offer before the Lords of the Treasury to collect 2,000,0001. of taxes for the sum of 1,600/. a year. Why,* he thought that it would be at their peril, if the Treasury, having no regard for the eco nomical administration of the public funds, should refuse it, un. less on very sufficient grounds indeed. Mr. LUSHINGTON had .no hesitation in assuring Ho. nourable Gentlemen on the other side, that the offer in question would, undoubtedly, receive the most serious consideration of their Lordships.—(Hear, hear !) Mr. GRENFELL observed, that if the object of the Hon ourable Alderman was to fetter the choice or the Treasury in making these important appointments, he (Mr. Grenfell) should not be able to concur with him.. The principle that the Committee, of which he himself had the honour of having been a member, proceeded on, he understood to be, that no person who did not do the duty himself should be eligible for a Receiver-general. But on the grounds already stated, he could not conceive Mr. Bagot, although,he had been a Receiver-Ge. neral, to be properly qualified for undertaking the personal dis• charge of the office. Mr. MONCK, in voting for this Bill, which he really , thought a good one, and calculated to effect considerable say: ings to the public, did so on the faith that the Treasury would not neglect any proper. Measure of economical collection. - Mr. Alderman - WOOD then declared, that on the under. standing that the salaries to be paid to the receivers 'would not exceed 2,0001. per annum, he would not divide the House. The Bill was then passed without a division. • BEER BILL. For the Terms and Conditions of the Contract, apply at the Secretary's Office, in Pall-Mall, between th. Hours of Den and Four o'ClOck, where such Persons as intend to make Tender for Me Contract wilt receive a List of the Articles to be supplied,. , • the Proposals must be delivered; sealed up, and endOrsed, Proposals fur the Supply, of., Hosiery Article's: h but " 10 Proposal can be admitted after the 26th instant, ai rwelve o'clock at Noon; neither 011 any Tender be no 7 unless the Party;nakiag it, or an Agent in his be shall attend. By Order of the Board, R.ll. CREW, Secretary. GR AND FETE at VAUXHALL THIS DAY, Friday, 19th July, under the Especial Patron. age and in Commemoration of the Coronation of his MAJESTY. 'The Concert will be conducted in the most splendid manner. The First Act will finish with HANDEL'S CORONATION ANTHEM ; the Second Ait will commence with the celebrat ed Anthem, composed by Attwood, for the late Coronation ; ma, on this occasion, the Royal Gardens will exceed all their former splendour, as they will be most elegantly decorated, and brilliantly illuminated with upwards of Ten Thousand Addi. tional Lamps, in appropriate forms and devices. The Won. der of Wonders, Jean Baptiste Loriguemare; so justly ce. l ebrated as the Tight Rope Prodigy, will perform his wonder-, ful Evolutions on the TIGHT ROPE, which, have astonish ed and delighted Brilliant and Fashionable Assemblages, and : w hich nightly produce most unbounded Applause. He will be assisted by the junior branches of his family. The Beautiful } IEPTAPLASIESOPTRON, so much admired for its won derful brilliancy and elegance, with all its curious Machinery 4 ?, e f.Reyolvi ng Pillars, Palm Trees, Fountain of Real Water, 'oc • will be open from Ten till One o'clock, and all the other amusements as usual. The Chevalier Southby will exhibit the GRANDEST FIRE-WORKS ever seen in thirs or any other country. And in addition to all the above, MAGNIFICENT x ," AT ERAVORKS never before exhibited, will be displayed. ufew Cloak Rooms h avet been fitted up, and proper females ap. Pointed to attend on Ladies. Supper Boxes may be engaged.— Admission, 3s. 6d.—The Police will be under the Direction of Air. Hall, f Union Hall, Southwark. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER addressed a few observations to the House, explanation of the course which Government had taken with reference to the subject of. debate. An inquiry had been going . on for several years, un der the authority of the Treasury, in order to discover whe ther means could not be found for supplying the labouring public with beer of superior quality, subject to a duty, regu lated according to its comparative strength. Without stating what had been the result of the inquiry, he should say that there was every reason to believe so much of the plan would be, carried into effect as would enable the labourer to get superior beer, subject to an intermediate duty. 'With respect to' the merits of the present licensing system, he desired at this time to give no opinion. So far as related to the sale of beer in public-houses, he thought the present law fit to be retained ; but with respect to the sale of beer in other houses, he .thought this might be allowed, without materially affecting the great property vested in public-houses. A heavy duty fell on the public brewer, which, as the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had said, did not attach to the private brewer.— lle, however, thought the *ant of skill on the part of the ter, and the absence of those advantages growing out of the' employment of a large capital, 'pile him no great superiority over the public brewer. But be that as it might, the advan.: tages which had beau mentioned were . secured by law to those- Who brewed for themselves, and with that law he had no dis position to interfere. Mr. Alderman BRIDGES spoke against the plan for lega lizing the sale of beer front private houses..-. The Bill was then . withdrawn. PROVISION. FOR INSANE OFFICERS. "Mr. F. BUXTON, seeing a Gallant Admiral (Sir 0. Cock burn) in his place, begged leave to a 4( him a question. in the early part of the Session he had inquired, whether the same pensfon was intended to be granted to the wives of Officers who had been in his Majesty's service, ,aid who were afflicted with insanity, as they Would be entitled to, if they had receiVed a wound in the service ? He wished to know what had been done on this point. Sir G. COCKBURN said, he could answer the Hon. Mem ber's question most, satisfactorily. Any Officer who was now suffering, or who might nereafter stiffer, under the malady,al - to, if it were occasioned by his exertions in the service, would be entitled to the same pension as if he had lost a leg in the service.—(Hear, hear however, it arose from a natti rid defect, or from his own imprudence, he would not be en, tithd to that indulgence. As to the half-pay, tha; went to the support of the individual, if he were taken care of by Govern ment but if his family took charge of him, they got the whole of the half-pay and pension.—(Hear, hear !) Mr. F. BUXTON understood that the friends of all parties thus situated might now put in their claim, it resting with them ,to show that the disease arose from their exertions in the ser vice. Of course a pensi6n of this description would only•be paid while the person continued afflicted. if he recovered trom the malady, it would cease. CANADA TRADE BILL. R. HALLS' LARGE PICTURE of the TWO . MARY'S VISITING THE SEPULCHRE OF A l b 'IST, at N0.:54, PALL MALL,: WILL - CLOSE 'on SA the 20th July, 1 BM—Admission is. EXCHEQUER CHAMBERS, EDINBURGH,, 2d JULY, 1822. NOTICE IS HEREBY " GITEN to all Da concerned, that Mrs. SARAH BUSKIN, Widow, 4 -,lighter of Mrs. Rose Doxey, of Spittalfields, in the qty of Middlesex, deceased.; Thomas Mason, Teacher of Pages, of Oxford -street, London, Grandson of the said Mrs. Doxey ; and Mrs. Elizabeth Entwisle ' Widow, the executrix and Residuary Legatee of Thomas Emanuel Ent -4,e, who was another Grandson of the said Rose Doxey ; and h a ehibald Swinton, Writer to the Signet, their Attorne_y,- 4e applied to the Right Hon. the Barons, for at of the c e arising on Five Bonds of the GOv•Arnota and COmpany Undertakes for raising Thames Water in York-Buildings, p o , e11 ;01n the proceeds of die Estates of the said Company, dts: () of by Judicial Sale in Scotland; to the deceased James I ‘ ll l l s aldston, of Aldermanbiary, London, which has fallen to the g as Ultima Hteres. London, June 47, 1822. AMIE to inform you, that the MARQUIS 4 4 , of HASTINGS, belonging to GEORGE LYALL, Esq; lo c icompleted her Second Voyage to and from the East bl t ,;°!.. with the Awning and part of her Sails made of Un -I,,.:ened Canvas, which had, previously to her first Voyagei Al e n Prepared by,you. Although- the Awning . alluded to in Letter of the 14th of July, 1821, is much worn; h i '" that or the Sails have the smallest symptom of. Mildew. es srs. Browell & Co. L. 0. EDWARDS, Capt. Aldermanbury • PARLIAMENT, SUSE OF LORDS, THURSDAY, JULY 18. Att. NEW BILLS. tiTI th e —ROGDEN and others brought u p . from the Commons Leather Duty Reduction Bill, the Irish Endowed Schools' tic.and the Duchy of Cornwall Bill, which were read a first r n Th e SCOTCH JURIES. r ece , Report of th e Committee on the Scotch Jury Bill was l eed and agree d t o . IlinT , e Scotch Spirits Drawbacks, and the Annuities Memorials 1 , 11 were read a third time and passed. Pri e of SHAFTESBURY, in the absence of his Noble Ilo i : d "(Viscount Sidmouth) who was not able to attend, post -4.4- me Committee on the Prison Laws Consolidation and endmen Bill , till Monday next.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. brewers of presented a petition from certain e„,wer s of Andover against die Beer Retail Bill. or i i r • BROUGHAM presented a petition from a Gentleman V"!e name of Robert Gourlay, complaining of the imperfect nistration of justice in the province of Upper Canada. tni s ‘f* WALLACE brought up the second Report of the Coul- R,44eners appointed to inquire into the collection of the Public Znue i n I re l and. 44 . f,,ter a few words from Mr. WARRE, Mr. WALLACE, and itic; thq Report was ordered to be printed. Cov e . MOORE present e d a petition from the Maltsters of ,t, against the Beer Retail Bill. At r r ' f-7,EARCE presented eight petitions of a similar nature. of ifc't C ALVERT presented a petition from the inhabitants d er C. d n eY and Finchley, aga i ns t th e Highgate Chapel Bill.— °li-ZPto be referred to the Committee on the Bill. . ; NISON presented a petition from certain publicans Th r—n g, in Surrey, ' against the Beer Retail Bill. th e Marquis of TIT g CHFIELD presented a petition from isaine4nßnillabiants of King's Lynn, in Norfolk, ir. favolir of the air. R . KING'S BENCH PRISON. Prison. ‘ i * BENNET presented a Petition from Col. Bailey, Prop er for debt in the King's Bench, complaining of thacondct b xercised twards him by the Marshal of t o in . fe r r r n • Th Ron. Pdember thought the. House was bound t s ee tr e e r i e o on the subject, and he gave notice that early in the Ku ne4 la t n be would move for leave to bring in a Bill to re- The s arri P ri erh Peno n e lion. Member then esented a Petition from . a 1.101.ns Bench the King , the nam e of Alexander haw, a prisoner for debt in Pr4on complaining that ht, had been placed l e, °nth, ' 'ringer-lane Gaol, there to be confined for three navi 4 ; trod uY order of the Marshal of the King's Bench, for ‘4 Ceti sPlri — ts into the latter prison. He prayed Mr. BROUGHAM rose to move the second reading of this Bill. He disclaimed any wish to attack the motives of the in dividuals who opposed the measure ; but the fact was, that the beer in general sale was so bad, that its consumption had not increased in proportion to the increase of the p6pulation. He did not mean to say that this was to be entirely attributed to the badness of the beer, but to the tax, which seldom appeared to be taken into account. The poor were grievomiy oppressed by the tax ; and it was on their behalf that he submitted the Bill to the consideration of the House. Ai, the law now stood, no person could sell strong beer by retail, without an excise licence, and a licence from the Magistrates. It was a most admirable inconsistency in the law,' to place itself in hostility to the practice of tippling, and yet to oblige every man who wanted a pot of beer, to go to the public house for it. He de nied that the law meant to give the brewers the monopoly which they assumed. His Hon. Friend reminded him that the Magistrates so construed the law as well as the brewers. It might be so, but he spoke in the presence of many wos..hy Ma. gistrates, with whom he wished to enter into amicable discus. sion on the spirit of the law, convinced that their anxious wish to do justice to the public, would lay them open to an impres sion from him, whilst he pledged himself to give way to their views, if they could convince him. He asked them then what was the meaning of that part of the law which gave them the power to restrict the number of public houses by licensing, if it were not the prevention of the indulgence of tippling, by keeping the number of public houses exactly proportioned to the wants of the public, and admitting only to be the owners of them, such as could give the security of good character, and property to a certain amount ? It was evidently the con venience and well-being of the public that were meant by the laws in this respect, and part of the intention must, there fore, have been to ensure to the consumer the benefit of good wholesome beer. Since the supply of this article had been ex clusively in the hands. of the brewers, such beverage had been imposed upon the people, as the Legislature was not warranted to sanction the continuance of. The encourage ment of retail beer.shops would also he lvneficial to the re venue. It was at present the interest of the brewers to use as small a quantity of malt as possible, to make that article and hops keep pace with each other as much as possible. He would refrain besides from adverting to any of those other in. gredients with hard names, of foreign plants, which were so well known to be mixed up with the liquor they had to drink. This was certain, that the beer they now had was not of that kind spoken of by an excellent judge of his day, Boniface, as that which he could eat, drink, and sleep upon. If this sill were allowed to pass, the poorer classes of his Majesty's sub jects would have'better beer brewed for them, and instead of being obliged to send for every pot to the tippling house, ex posing their daughters and children to all the temptation and pollution of evil example by making them the messengers, they might obtain it from a respectable humble shop, where no bad company would' be thrown in their way. Good, whole some, old English beer would again flow through the country. A fair competition would -be introduced to that which was poison to the health, and worse to the morals ; and which had in some parts of the country which he knew, reduced a healthy vigourous population,. to a pun,y paralytic race, leave alone its effects on the metropolis. The House would of course see that he alluded to ardent spirits.—(Hear, hear '..)—The Hon. Member concluded by moving that the Order of the Day be read' for the second reading of the Retail Beer Bill. The Order having been read, and the question put upon the second reading Mr. F. BUXTON Said, that as his Hem. and Learned Friend had expressed himself as a friend to the right of property; he was convinced that he did, not know what would be the opera tion and effect of his own Bill. The House would be sur prised to hear that such' were the sentiments of his Honourable: Friend in bringing forward a Bill, the effect of which would be to bring ruin on 50,000 persons, and injure a capital of 30 millions employed in the beer trade. This being the im portant effect of the Bill, he did not think he need urge any other objection to it than the late period of the Session. Arl public business of importance had by common consent been postponed, aed yet ,that was the period thought fitting for the introduction'of a measure affecting property to a greater extent than any which had been brought in during the present Session.—(Hear, hear !)—With regard, however, to his other objections to the Bill, he must point out to the House the justice of separating the interests of the victuallers and pub licans from the brewers, who were of a far more obnoxious character. If the brewers deserved punishment. as monopo lists, why should the , publican included ? If the brewers emplofetitto great a proportriffi kik of capital in the business, what had , the publicans to do with that ? They were in no way converted, and it was not just to the weaker de linquent to join him in punishment With the stronger. He therefore called -.upon the House to separate the cause of He publicans from that of the brewers. He was sorry his on. and Learned Friend had not made any direct attack linen the LOndon brewers, as he should have been most happy to vindicate them from .the charge of imposing a bad article upon the country. But the Bill had the direct effect of ruin ' ing the . publican, and injuring the brewer. Now he begged the House to 'observe *that the .property of the publican was extremely hartersied ; his little wealth 'was of slow growth, and in fact ace elated shilling upon shilling. Publicans had generally been' servants who set up with small capitals, and he assured his Hon. and Learned Friend, that the London pub- lican earned his money much more by sending out his beer, than by selling it at his bar. It was the same in the country, th6ugh not to the same extent. If, therefore, the house con ferred-upon all the chandlers and barbers in 'the neighbour ' heed the power of selling beer, they would destroy the publi can's out. door sale and ruin his business. He again assured the House, that there - were upwardi of fifty thousand re spectable-, industriotis, thriving tradesmen who would be thus affected by the Bill.--(Hear, hear; hear o—Then came the question, whether these people had Vested rights in the ex isting state things? That question; he thought might be set at rest, by considering whether th 4 publican, at the time of vesting his capital in his public-house, could anticipate this Bill being passed ? Certainly not. If antiquity had any thing to do vsith it, he eould boldly assert, that the „present system of licensing public-houses dated its origin from an Act of Edward the Sixth. lie assured the House, that he had in his hand the other die; a licence to a public-house, under the hand of a well ' known eminent citizen of former times, he meant Praise-God Barebone,—(a laugh)—that house had been eminent in the sale Of good beer from the days of that individual down to the pre sent. But he maintained that no policy founded on public convenience could be-tolerated - should injure private interests. If so ; what would hate become of the public cre ditor ? The fact was, that this motion of his Hon. and Learned Friend was an attempt, a 'well-meant attempt no doubt, on his part, - to -relieve the agriculturists from that portion of distress which pressed upon them. That was no doubt a strong interest ; but he was sure it would never be tolerated that one class should be made to Suffer the burdens which pro-: perly belonged to another. The agriculturists, he believed, did not back his Hon. Friend—they were too manly and gene rous to wish others to be ruined in order to relieve them. An other evil of-this Bill would be, that the number of excise of- • cers must be increased. With regard to the morality of the question, let the House recollect the different checks of cha racter' and property upon the publican, under the present system, and look at the effect of irresponsible individuals, of all descriptions, having it in their power to take out an excise licence., lie must sepia advert. to the „period at which the Bill was brought in, and he would use the words of his Hon. Friend on - that subject. It was only the other day, that speaking of a. Bill brought in he said :--They all knew what was the mean ing ofintroducing a measure on the 10th of July. It meant an op ressive law, discussions to empty benches, in short hot weather legislation, and quite out of season. This, too, was the way. he (Mr, Buxton) designated the Act of his Hon. Friend. This *as an oppressive measure—it was for the largest confiscation of property ever attempted by such means. It would, if admit. ted, lead to frauds upon the Revenue, destruction of private property, and immorality.—(Hear !) Here seven or eight Members rose at once; but all gave way to Mr. BROUGHAM.—He rose- to correct his Hon. Friend's misconception of his .meaning about measures brought in 'at this period of the Session. All that he had said applied to the intention that such measures should pass sub silentio. He was sorry to stand even thus long betwixt his Hon. Friend, and, the .impatience of the _House, to answer bins, for which he had furnished ample materials. Mr. HUSKISSON confessed that he was fully impressed by the weight Of the argument which the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down set out with, with respect to the lateness of , ' the Session. He did not think the 18th of July the proper day for such a Bill as this, and as one friendly to' the principle of the Bill, he really would beg leave to recommend to the Hon. and Learned Genileman to withdraw his Bill for the present, lest by meeting with a negative, it should come prejudiced to discussion ata future period. Bia with regard to the argu ments of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, he seemed to argue that it had always been the policy of the law to countenance a monopoly of the article. He, however, had always considered licenses and such like, for instance the assize of bread, were instituted alone for the benefit, and with a view to the comforts of the consumer.--(Hear !)—And as to vested rights, and the analogy of the Hon. Member with the case of the public creditor, it had nothing to do with the present ques tion. They stood upon different grounds altogether ; for, ac cording to thejtion. Member's theory of vested rights, it would be an invasion pf watermen's rights to build a bridge over the River, or to work a steam vessel.—(Hear, hear o—He really thought the Hon. Gentleman had a little exaggerated when lie talked of 50,000 individuals being ruined. They were there to legislate for the public good, which the notions of the Hon. Member about vested rights would go entirely to check. Still less could he countenance the word confiscation applied by the Hon. Member to this Bill. -The restraint with respect to the sale of beer was given for the purposes of morality ; but it had been converted to altogether a different purpose, approaching to something like monopoly. But that never could justify a title being set up to such a monopoly. By the disappearance of drunkenness, which any one who had lived. as long as he had, could not fail to have observed, a great prolongation of life had accrued to the humbler classes of people, with a great improvement in their comforts. It was necessary, therefore, to look with caution at any change in the system which br6ught about such advantages. He again recommended the Hon. and Leained Gentleman not to pre'ss his. Bill in its present crude state; to withdraw it and endeavour to ascertain, during the recess, whether or not this Bill would improve the revenue, and to what extent. He wished he would also estimate the ex tent of its operation upon the habits of the people, and also upon- the property at present concerned in the trade. Mr. Alderman WOOD apologised to the House for trou bling them upon this subject, as out of the 44,000 persons who would be affected by this Bill, 4,000 were his constituents.— He wished his Hon. Friend would shew what benefit was tobe derived from this measure. The evils of it had been suffi ciently pOinted out, for it certainly would be the cau s e of ruin to a great number. To illustrate the feeling'of the trade at the prOposition of his Hon. and Learned Friend, he only put it se his own feelings how he would feel, were it proposed to'admit the inferior practitioners in the law to the practice of the Courts. (A laugh.)-He was sure the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would not like that. He knew that Solicitors had been allowed to practise as Counsel in Cornwall, and that gave great offence to the Gentlemen of the Long Robe. Ruin, he knew, would 'be hiought upon many respectable widows and others, were this influx into the trade permitted. He hoped, therefore, the House would let- the present system go on, from which every possible benefit was derived. He should not move that the Bill be read that day three months, because he believed it was the intention of his Hon. Friend to withdraw the Bill for the present Session. Mr. BROUGHAM said lie had felt himself bound, with re ference to some previous measures, to push the Bill on to its present stage in this Session, or he certainly should not have selected so late a period of it. He was not, therefore, insensi ble to the weight of the argument for postponing it. The mass of interest that it created had made him desire to hear the ar- On the Order of the Day having been read, for the further consideration of the Canada Trade Bill it was ordered that the Bill should be re-committed: Mr. WILMOT, in moving that the Speaker do leave the Chair, said that the importance of the measure which he had now to introduce to the notice of the House, made it , necessary for him to trespass for some time on the attention of the House'. The matter of the Bill before them might, he -brought under three heads : the first part to alter the constitution of the pro vinces of Canada, which had been established by the Act of 1791, better known by the name of the Canada Act; the se cond, to apply to Canada the principles of an extension of free trade, which had been sanctioned by the Bills of his Right Bon. Friend (Mr. Wallace); the third and last to settle the appro priation of duties between the two Provinces of Upper and Lower Canada. The last of these in order he should consider first, because it was the anomalous position of the provinces in reference to these duties that had led to the necessity of remedial measures. It was known to the House, that when the French Province of Canada was conquered by the British arms, the Criminal Law of England was intro -duced into the conquered country, and that the Civil Law of France was suffered to remain, modified by .a: Procla mation issued in 1763, and by . various Ordinances sub sequently made. The alterations introduced into the French law by these Ordinances, led to anomalies in the I lavi, which were remedied by the Canada Act of 1774, which re stored the French Civil Law to the Province. From 1774 to 1791, the Government of the Province had been carried on by a Governor and a numerous Executive Council, from 17 to 23 persons, who had not the power of local taxation, the taxes being imposed by the Parliament of Great Britain. Previously to 1791, after the American war, the upper part of the Pro vinces which had been comprehended under the general name of Canada, but which was not inhabited, was "-colonized by American loyalists. In 1791, the Quebec Act was passed, the debates on which took place amidst circumstances which were interesting to every Englishman who studied the history of his country, as they produced the difference between two great men, tMr. Fox and Mr. Burke. The colony was by Act divided into two - provinces, Upper and Lower Canada.- , - This division was objected to by Mr. Fox, 'and it was de fended on the ground that the inhabitants of the upper part of Canada were as 9 to I Englishmen, and that it would be unjust to subject them to the same law as the lower province. At the same time when separate provinces were erected, an arrangement was made respecting the duties . levied in the port of Quebec, which was the common inlet to both provinces. The duties upon imports into Upper Canada did not amount to more than one-eighth of the duties on imports into Lower Canada ; and it was therefore considered that the province of Upper Canada was not entitled to more than one-eighth of the revenue. This arrangement continued up to the year 1797. From that period to the year 1817, the principle of examination by Custom-house officers, was adopted, in order to ascertain the proportion of re venue which Upper Canada was entitled to receive ; but this practice was found so extremely inconvenient that it was soon abandoned, and a tifth portion of the duties was assigned to tip per Canada, or a period of 2 years. At the end of this period Commissioners were appointed to regulate the proportion of re venue to be assigned to each of these provinces ; but notwith standing all the diligence Of those Commissioners i. it was found impoisible to come to'a'fair adjustment of the clainis of the two colonies. The consequence was that Upper Canada had been deprived of her fair proportion bf revenue ; and it was one of the objects of this bill tOremedy this grievance 'by supplying the means of arbitration. ' When it appeared to be the deliberate opinion, of the Comniissioners of Lower Canada, that they could arrive at no principle of adjustment, which was Elea) , to be sa tisfactory to boot colonies, it was natural for the Government orthia country to consider Whether some measures might not be adopted, *hieh, by uniting 'the two proviriees, and incorpo rating their legislatures, 'Might consolidate' the interests of 'the two Colonies: Such a measure was suggtsted, not less by gene: ral principles of eXpediehey, than by the pressing " necessity arising out of the difficulty of adjusting the claiMs of the two a Colonies. He benied leaVe to refer to a report of a debate on this subject, which took place in that House in April ; 1791, in which Mr. Fox declared his approbation of the policy of uniting the two provinces of Upper and Lower Canada._ Mr. Pitt, in his reply to Mr. Fox on that occasion, stated; that ,if the Aalembiy were not properly constituted, it was subject to revision, and that there was nothing . to hin: der the Parliament of Great Ittitain from correcting any thing 'whieh might appear to want correction. lie agreed in the abstract principles of Mr. Fox, but thought that they could not conveniently be carried into effect at that period. The only ' object of the present measure was to bring the two Colo nies into a closer union, by incorporating the two Legislatures, so. that the English language, and the spirit Of the - English Con stitution, rpight be more completely diffused among all classes of their population. No "rights or privileges now enjoyed by any . _persons, e in either of the provinces, would be in the slight est degree affected by the present measure. There was a clause in the Bill which gave the Representatives of the Executive Goa vernment a right to speak in the House of Assembly.—There was another clause establishing a qualification for the persons elected, a p'rOvisjon which had been omitted in the first Act. The sum fixed upon as a qualification was, however, such as would in no degree diminish the general competition for such a situation,which ought to exist among a free people. There were two declaratory clauses, relating to the clergy and the feuda l tenures, the object of which was to abolish a system of property so utterly repugnant to every sound principle of political eco-, nomy. „in the clauses relating to trade, the sane poliesnwhich had been pursued in the Bill regulating the trade of the West India Colonies had been applied to the inland trade of the Canadas. A draivback was allowed on rum imported front the West Indies, when exported again from the Canadas, to Which he apprehended no objection would be made. He had now, adverted to the general objects of the measure, the details of which would be more conveniently discussed in the Com- , inittee. An objection had been made to this measure on the ground that the feelings and opinions of the people had not been consulted but he could assure the House that every means had been taken to procure the best information an this subject, that the measure Was deemed to be decidedly beneficial to both provinces, and that it had received the complete sanction of those who, from their position and experience, were best quali fied to appreciate its merits. He Concluded by moving that the Speaker do now leave the Chair. Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH, in rising to offer some ob servations after the very able and perspicuous speech of the Hon. Gentleman; to which he had listened with pleasure, hoped that the Hon. Gentleman would not impute it to disre. spect, .if he should not advert more frequently than it was his intention to do, to the statements and arguments which had been advanced by him. So far front doing this from disrespect, he could assure the lion. Gentleman that in the regulations proposed he entirely concurred, and of the opinions advanced he fully approved. Two Bills of the last reign had been re ferred to, which were memorable for the periods in which they were passed. The one had been passed .when the American war was near its close ; the other, when the great confederacy Was formed against the French revolution. No event of similar importance or interest appeared to be connected with this Bill. From the state of attendance in the House, it appeared that now little good was expected, and little evil to be apprehended ; from its principle or operation. He felt the greatest distrust of a measure introduced for discussion the first time on the 18th of July,—(Hear, hear,)--and a measure incorporating two legislatures—abolishing the legielattires of two provinces, and crating a third. Ile felt that - these considerations afforded an irresistible claim on his :Nlajeatv's Government, at whose mercy he knew he was for the amendment which, he should move. these considerations fortified his objections to the present pass: ing of the hill. (blear, head!)—His object was only to delay the incorporation for six months. To every other part of the measure he had objection. There were three distinct objects proposed. First, to apply to the trade of Canada the prin.; elide which he highly approved of in the West India Bill. 2d, To distribute the revenue collected at the port of Que bec, according to the commerce of the provinces. 3d, -The incorporation of the legislatures,- and the union of the two pro vinces. This last part, it was to which he objected, and he would move as an Amendment, that it be an instruction to the Committee to separate this part from the other two parts. —The other two parts might be carried through Parliament without any delay. It was only on the incorporation of the two legislatureS, and the union of the two provinces, that he called upon the House to pause. On the 18th of July, in so' thin a House, ought they in decency to enter on a proposition incorporating two great provinces ?—(Hear I) The Right Hon. Member for Chichester I\lr. HuAisson) to whom he never failed to listen without attention, and to whom he never listened without receiving instruction, had this night put it to an Hon. and Learned "i.'nend of his (Mr. Brougham) to delay a Bill of which the Right Honourable Gentleman approved. If delay were due to publicans and brewers, whom he respected, and whose interests and property were of great magnitude, at least the same tenderness was due to the rights and privileges, the feelings anti opinions, the very prejudices, of two great provinces who had no representatives in this country, who had had no op portunity ofloo':.ing their table with petitions, but who were to be. taken by surprise, and to have the whole system and constitution of their government altered,without a single statement or opinion from them.—(Hear !)—He warned any Honourable Member who.might do him the honour to reply to his observations, not to descend to so paltry an expedient as misrepresentation of his meaning. He entered not at all here into a philosophical con sideration of the abstract right of the people to representation. He mooted no question respecting the right of Parliament.— He, on the contrary was of opinion that such power did exist in Parliament. The position of the Parliament, as the head of the great English confederacy, which embraced rich and powerful colonies extended over all parts of the globe, was a dignified and noble position. The power which such a posi tion conferred was to be exercised with great moderation—with uniform forbearance, with every regard to the feelings and in terests of all classes and parties. It was a power reserved for extraordinary emergencies; for reconciling contending interests, above all, for the correction of acts of dereliction or oppression on the part of Provincial Governments.—(Hear !)—He there fore clung to the remnant of that great power which once ex tended over what was now a great empire, but of which that splendid portion was for ever lost.—( Hear !)—lt Mightnot prove a loss to this country to be deprived of that part of its power, but he was entitled to say, that its loss was a dishonour to the councils which occasioned it.—(Hear !)—The Hon. Gent. had referred to an expression in the Act of the 31st' of the late King ; and to the authority of a great Statesman, to prove that ,the act might be repealed. The reference was unnecessary. N o law was irreversible. The question was the expediency of the measure. It was not only the measure itself that was to be con sidered, hut the tendency and the example, of that measure. It was a question of as great magnitude as - could be proposed to that House : it involved the colonial policy which was requital by the present age. All colonies, especially those of Nott:i America, were to be retained only by giving them loose reins. .--(Hear.)—When colonies of European origin were attempted to be restrained by coercion and terror, we only accelerated what we wished to prevent, and rendered,adaerse what might be arni: cable.( Hear.)—He did not object to the union : it might be proper, desirable, and amicable. The question was not what was desirable and right, but the tendency and example of pto-, ceeding with this Bill. His first great objection was, that this was the first 'union of Legislatures ever attempted by this coun try. There was not one exception. The attempt to suppress the Legislature of Massachusets provoked the insurrection of all North. America. There had been no union of Legislatures in the West Indies. Wherever the least trace of a Legislature had ever existed, there it still remained. There hackneverbeen a measure approaching to this ; there had been none after in quiry and deliberation. The pettiest corporation in England could not be suppresed without full inquiry. But this mea sure was founded upon mere general argument and expe diency. The political and legal existence of two colonies was to be affected upon general reasoning. He asked whether tiara was any information ? It might be a beneficial measure in 5 5 i 1 ,f, 1:71"