The Sun. — London, England, 1822-03-14 00:00:00

---> etr'y 7 ' . '' , .-i , f: , • . ___,...... z "... — i''''t. ' 1 .7-' , . 'Zfc' - , 2 ' . • - sA•eN:— '` -';\ .- %.4 s" ‘, .; . ;: . ...._ _, •y ; ! ,-.} . . ~,,.:\ ~ ~,,, ~ \\,. \ ‘a l_ L ij ., l6 : l :7 /0 1 ,, . ,, • .:., 4 1 , 0%.: , . .. . I , . .. • . . ,x; .CH 12. ent. 2maben, , /42 si 2-av"- ‘)(..44,- ) NUMBER 9220..] VICTUdiLLINGOFFICE, March 13, 1822. T COMMISSIONERS for VICTUAL LING His MAJESTY'S NAVY do her, give No tice, That on Tuesday, the MIA instant, they Will be ready to receive Tenders in writing (sealed up), and treat for One Hundred Thousand Gallons of WEST INDIA RUM, • of the strength of 5 per . cent. .under proof Sikes's ' Hydrometer. One Thousand Sacks of BISEET MEAL; Fifty Tons of OATMEAL ; Forty Tons of CHEESE; 4172 d Twenty Tons . of BUTTER; To be delivered into His Majesty's Victualling. Stores at beptford, in the space of One Month (the Bishet Meal by "'vat weekly proportions) ; and also for the supply of what TALLOW CANDLES may be demanded for the service of the Steres aforesaid, for One Year from the date of the Contract. The whole to _be paid for by Rills, payable, without in terest, sixty days after date. Thy Conditions of the Contract may be seen at this Office. Ng regard will be had to any Tender in which the Price t 4 c(fl not be inserted in words at length, or that shall not be delivered to the Board before One o'Cloch on the said Tuesday, Me t6th instant ; nor unless the Person who makes the Tender, or some Person on his behalf, attends to answer 'when called for. BRITISH INSTITUTION, PALL MALL. THIS GALLERY, for the EXHIBITION P . and SALE of . the WORKS of MODERN ARTISTS, ;It OPEN daily flit' Ten in the Morning until Five in the 4Vening. • _ . . . Admivion Is.—Catalogue Is. By Order, JOHN YOUNG, Keeper. • COMPOSITION FOR ASSESSED TAXES. NOTICE is hereby given, that Persons de s of COMPOUNIG for their ASSESSED l 'AXES, sir o ou r of RENEWING t h e ir former COMPOSITIONS under the provisions of the Act of the first and second Georg e IV. cap. I es, may, on application to the Assessors or Collectors of the Parish in which they reside, or to the Surveyor of the District, receive the forms of notice applica ble to their cases; which forms mus t he returned by them, with the declarations therein required, properly filled up, as prescribed by the Act, on or before the sth day of April, 1„ By orderof the Board, MATTHEW Office for Taxes, Somerset House, Logdon, WINTER, Sec. March 1, 1822. To be published in a few days, APRACTICAL TREATISE on the DIS ORDERS of the STOMACH and BOWELS ; with a hew Method of Curing Strictures without either Bougie or Caustic. By JOHN LYNCH, 44, Duke-street, St. James's. ESTABLISHED UPWARDS of TWENTY YEARS for the SALE of IRISH LINEN by the PIECE, at the FACTOR'S PRICE, No. 4, on the.SOUTH SIDE of BLOOMSBURY SQUARE, POUR DOORS from the TOP of SOUTHAMP TON-STREET, HOLBORN: THE IRISH LINEN COMPANY beg leave to announce to the Public, that the above House is their only, Establishment in this country ; where they continue to supply the Nobility, Gentry, and the Public, with WAR RAN'I'ED GRASS BLEACHED LINEN, for Shirts and Theets of the best fabric and colour, at a price considerably l ower than they can be procured through any other me dium. They also engage to return the purchase money, s hould any fault appear. Good Irish Bills and Bank of Ire land Notes taken as usual. Country and Town Orders pone- ' tually attended to by JOHN DONOVAN, 4, Bloomsbury-sq. `g ents. London,l , JOHN DOYLE, 3i, St. Mary's Abbey, Dublin,) PARLIAMENT, OUSE OF LORDS, w EDNESDAY, MARCH 13 NEarl BATHURST presented five Petitions from ners and Occupiers of Land in several places i t) L ower Canada, praying for Agricultural Relief. 'Read'and laid on the table. NAVY FIVE PER CENTS. On the motion of the Earl of LIVERPOOL / the 20use went into a Committee on the Five per C ents. On the Clause, enacting that those who shall hot dissent on the 15th of March shall be con sidered as havinc , assented, being read, r Earl G REY objected to the wo r di ng . Th e t hen was coming an d wou ld b e a l most passed t herefore the Bill sh ou ld b e comp l e t e d. I t would ierefo re be more proper to insert, " those who !hall not have dissented by the 16th of March," 14 stead of " those who shall not dissent." After a few words from the Earl of LIVER.. ?() °,..1., the objection was no t p resse d. file House th en resume d, t h e report was re sived, and the Bill ordered to be read a third groe to-morrow.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. L DISTRES. A ha tord EBRINGTON AGRICULTURA presented a Petition from the Owners t o Z Occupiers of Land in the town of Collumpton, in the of Devon, complaining of Agricultural Distress, pray. 1 ) , 5 an d c alling for Parliamentary Referm.—Order e d to o,4 ted. _ty ;. 1 CURWEN presented a Petition from the Owners and popiers of Land of Spilsby, in the county of Lincoln ' corn- Ing of Agricultur a l Di s t ress .--Ordered to be print e d. tt it Al- W. RIDLEY obtained leave to bring in a Bill for 1 )&g a Bridge and New Jail, and House of Correction, . h making other improvements, in the town of Newcastle tF 41 4 Yne • qe , k t• LAMBTON presented a Petition from th e i n h a bi tants for'Borough of Mahon, in the County of York, praying able revision of the Criminal Laws.—Ordered to lie on the IOONDON BRIDGE WATER WORKS. %V o ' r l Ir. CURTIS brought in a Bill to remove the Water 4 fi.._5 3 from London Bridge, which he moved should be read *it h t 13 UTTERWORTH opposed the Bill, as interfering ii private property. Est - r • OMMANNEY moved that the Bill should be read a Si t ti ,__Lne on that dazsix months. l 'ot;„ CURTIS defended the Bill, and declared it was th e -`tended to remove the 'Water Works without indemnifying kltli4ht°nlpany connected with them from any loss which they er l Nstain. It ,would be remembered that alterations had tid r epresented to be necessary in the present - London 'tet 03 some had even called for a new Bridge. Fie was not to this plan, as he was convinced that a new Bridge 't'av o ;ft necessary. It was now the object of the City to en,- prid ‘ , r' by other means to break the great fall of water at this he s e. The City acted wisely in making such experiments, Ilietbethek decided on building a new Bridge, and _thereby ,0 t .thereby an expen se o f 6 or 700 ,00.01. He wished the parties b' e '`' by this m easure to b e i ndemnified, but 'they could AL allowed to stand in the way of'great pUblic improvements. Alderman wool.) aupp the He was fa '4ole to the erection of new Bridge, and would favour )11. and gnity of orge, in George le Rev. Nlajes arum or void by to stu n, Car t's Inn, 23, at n, Iron South- Pritch- draper, .k worth Inn, longer, el, Collett, iron- eleven, I, Don:. master, usalena Smith, litaker, kiwi! 6, rarern, , Great se, and ii I, 2 , ornies, ,ey•and 27, and C. At m ; and , ur, 30, House, e•lane, El, mer ourt of lurray, 143, at torney, naster aghall- ()blow, orman, IVor -court, .strect, 1, Bir hester, Lime • Tyne, >Wien- rorces. , Wor- Shrop- !Car, haktr. holas thaw, !shire, bro- e▪ and and J. r. Hall ▪ Wil e and ,nd R. Glas- Py ers.-- ssage, ()king ......gm, US US. I Us. ! Us. I Us. oney ecti.ve ective 'eetivs tr 01. at the and Ming, widow John year of !oionel ent for ---„.. SUN- THURSDAY, AVARCH 14, 1822. th em . While we kept them in ill-humour this expense was necessary, but if we treated them in the spirit of a kind and li beral policy, they would defend tlemselves. The Petition was then ordered be referred to the Agricul tural Committee. EDINBURGH PCLICE BILL. Mr. ABERCROAIBY presentel a Petition from certain in habitants of Edinburgh against :he Police Bill. He took this opportunity of disclaiming in assertion, which he had been understood to make on a keener occasion—that a highly respectable individual had treated his fellow Citizens with in dignity. After a few words from Mr. W.Dirarnas, the Petition was ordered to lie on the table. MR. HUKT. Sir R. WILSON presented a Petition from an individual of the county of Lancaster, who hid been arrested, tried, and convicted with Mr. Hunt, and sentenced to a year's imprison ment, praying for the remission of tie remainder of Mr. Hunt's sentence. The Petition contained me paragraph to which he would call the attention of the House, as it presented an agree. able contrast to others that had lately come before them. The Petitioner, in the paragraph to which he alluded, said, " he had been consigned to a prison in Lincoln Castle, and had been treated with that humanity which the laws of the country re quired, to the lasting honotte of the Magistrates and the officers of the prison." Besidet this Petition, lie had one to present from Rochdale, in the county of L ancas t er , o n t h e same sub ject, signed by 2,100 inhabitants ; and-he hoped thee prayers of the Petitioners would be attended to. Mr. F. BUXTON wished to offer a few remarks which his absence on former occasions had precluded from him offering before. To his apprehension the charges brought forward against the Magistrates and jailor by Mr. Hunt and an Hon. Alderman (Wood) had been completely established, and a case of great hardship and of flagrant cruelty had been clearly sub stantiated. This opinion was founded on the conduct of the jailor towards the prisoner Cure. Then there was the case of an unfortunate man whose legs had been loaded with irons, and whose arms being loaded with an equal weight, made it almost impossible for the individual to stand upright. The Commis sioners had ordered them to be put on the man again in their pre sence, and the manner in which they indented the flesh, in a short time proved that if they were kept on, the prisoner must be sub jected to something very like torture. The case of the female, named Cure, was one of still mo r e fl agran t crue l ty . Con fined in a solitary cell, without fire, when frost and snow were on the ground, f rom t h e h ar dships she sustained, that nutriment failed her which nature had provided for her infant. No provision, however, was made for the occasion, and for t wo lays the mother and child had nothing to eat but bread, and nothing to drink but water from a bucket. A person of the name of Treedle, when in the agonies of death, had not met with that accommodation which his situation demanded. He had been left in a cold common sleeping-room, where he might be disturbed by others, and where others might be shocked and annoyed by him. The conclusion to which he came to on these circumstances was, that it was the duty of Government to order the j a ilor to be prosecuted. The facts stated by the Worthy Alderman (Mr. Alderman Wood) i he held to be com pletely established, and th e H ouse were n his opinion much obliged to the Worthy Alderman for his perseverance. He proceeded to account for the favourable report which he (Mr. Buxton) had made on the state of the Ilchester Jail in 1818.— The mal-practices which had prevailed had been introduced since that period. This he had a right to assume from the language of the petition, which stated them to have crept in of late. With respect to Mr. Hunt, it was clear the Judges meant to subject him to thirty months confinement in a wholesome, well-situated, and well-disciplined jail. It was plain that Mr. Hunt had suffered through the first twenty months of his con finement from the misconduct of the jailer. It was proved that out of the last 600 prisoners confined there, 400 had been ill in various ways. But a still stronger proof of the unwholesome ness of the situation was furnished by the proceedings of the Coroner's Inquest on the body of a prisoner, who was declared by the Jury to have died by the visitation of God, but whose death was accelerated by cold, and by injuries sustained from damp, through the frequent inundations of • the prison, which had been flooded six times in eight weeks. Mr. Hunt, it was clear, was not in that situation in which the Judges had meant to place him. If, then, he remained in prison till the time ex pired for which he had been sentenced, he would suffer more than it had been intended that he should Adler, and would in fact have to complain of gross injustice. He hoped the Right Honourable Gentleman oppo s it e (M r . P ee l ), an d the other Members of the Government, would take these circumstances into their consideration. He did not plead for Mr. Hunt from private friendship, nor from admiration of that individual's public conduct; but whether Mr. Hunt was a good man or a bad man, he was entitled to justice, and justice required that his sentence, and that alone, should be inflicted, a nd not a pu nishment which had never been contemplated by his Judges. Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE said, the degreeof punish. ment which had been inflicted might form a good ground for the competent authorities to- remit a part of Mr. Hunt's sen tence. He might go along with the Hon. Gentleman when the subject came before the House in this shape ; but he contended the state in which the Hon. Gentleman had formerly found the jail when he 'visited it went a great way towards justifying the representations which had been made on the subject before the late Commission commenced its labours. - He did not see how the local situation of the prison could be affected by what had lately transpired, but he was glad the Hon. Gentleman threw a distinction between what the prison was when he visited it, and what it was in 1821. Mr. DICKENSON vindicated the conduct of the Magi strates, who the moment they believed there were real grounds for complaint, had afforded Mr. Hunt every facility for sub stantiating his charges. It was his belief that the Magistrates of Somerset were incapable of acting with that savageness and want of feeling which had been imputed to them. Mr. PEEL said, that after the appeal which had been made to him, he felt i.nwilling to remain entirely silent, and he was also averse to invite discussion, until the whole of the evidence now in progress of printing should be laid on the table of the House. In a few days he expected it would be published, and then the whole case could with fairness be considered. He had read the report with that regret which any man must feel at discovering the particular instances of misconduct alluded to._ No man could read without indignation the treatment inflicted upon three of the prisoners, on the head of one of whom a blister had been put, not for the purpose of administenng relief or con solation, as such remedies were applied in cases of disease, but to augment the punishment of an individual for refractory con duct. Such an instance of cruelty could not be read without in dignation, not only against the person applying for the blister, but the medical man who had administered it. He did not ask the House to withhold their unqualified censure from those who had so loony incurred it ; but he only called upon them to suspend their judgment upon the whole case, until the evi dence necessary to enable them to form a correct opinion was in a state to be presented. With respect to the case of Mr. Hunt, he should only remark, that the circumstances must, indeed, be very special and very strong which, in the pre ; sent instance, would induce him to discuss it, particularly as the subject would in a few days come before them in the shape of a specific motion ; but he had no objection to state the result of the inquiries he had made into Mr. Hunt's condition in the prison. Mr. Hunt occupied two rooms in the gaol which had a northern aspect ; the adjoining ward was appropriated for the reception of two prisoners who waited on him ; and he had the privilege of walking at stated times in the yard. That contradictory orders had been issued respecting Mr. Hunt, he knew ; but he must defend the Magistrates of the county of Somerset from the suspicion of being actuated by unworthy motives in any part of their conduct. He believed that the Magistrates who attended the gaol were as well disposed as pos sible to make the situation of Mr. Hunt as comfortable as!was Consistent with the discharge of their duties. Commissioners were now sitting to consider how far the situation of Ilchester gaol was susceptible of improvement. With respect to the admission of Mr. Hunt's friends, he could only say that the High Sheriff had taken upon his own responsibility to admit them, subject to the terms of the former regulation which sub sisted when Mr. Hunt first entered the prison, and to which he was not understood to have objected. It was evident from what had transpired, that the Magistrates had taken the, greatest pains to render the gaol as commodious as possible, and to remedy the obvious defects of its' situation. They had di rected an inquiry to be conducted by the Clerk of the Peace and the County Surveyor, _to ascertain the best manner of repairing the prison, and to report the progress they had made at the next Quarter Sessions. That some of the Magistrates were guilty of negligence, he would candidly admit, b u t it h a d ob viously arisen from their confidence in the gaoler, who had de served every praise for his conduct during the time that the typhus fever had raged in the prison. He did not refer to that conduct as in any degree palliating the subsequent misconduct proved against the gaoler, but only as justifying the confidence such an undertaking as far aS lay in his power ; but this was ,not the question now before the House. He did not consider the Bill open to the objections which had been stated, and hoed it would be allowed to be read a first time. Sir F. 0M MA NNE Y explained. Mr. HOLME SUMNER wished to reserve what he had to say till the Bill got to a second reading, and the House had become more acquainted with the subject. He therefore hoped, as it was desirable, that the Hon. Bart. would be al lowed to withdraw his Amendment. He wa's opposed to the Bill in its present form, btft wished it to go through the pre sent stage. After a few further remarks from Sir NV. D. CRESPIGNY, Mr. N. CALVERT, and the SPEAKER, the Amendment was withdrawn, the Bill read a first, and ordered to be read a second time. DISTRESS IN CANADA. Mr. MARRYAT presented a Petition from the House of Assembly of Lower Canada, which, he said, contained a simple, but melancholy recital of plain facts and official documents.— The Petitioners state, that within the last year the wages of labour, the prices of the produce of the soil, and the value of landed property in that . Province, have diminished one half ;. that the amount of the exports has decreased from near 800,0001. to little more than 500,0001.; that the imports have decreased from near 1,300,0001. to between 8 and 900,0001.; and that the Provincial Revenue has fallen off, within the last year, from more than 100,0001. to between 70 and 80,0001. They add, that all these results have been occasioned by the Acts of the British Legislature which have imposed a duty on the importa. tion of their timber, while at the same time they have lowered the duty on the importation of foreign timber ; and have esta blished a system of Coin Laws, under the operation of w hi c h their corn has b een exc l u d e d from British consumption ever since the month of October 1820. They respectfully state, that if their produce i s th us ren d ere d o f no va l ue b y the Legislative measures of the Mother Country, while they are compelled to send their produce to her ports, and prohibited from all com mercial intercourse with every foreign power, they shall be unable to find the means of providing their population with those articles of comfort and necessity which they have hitherto been in the habit of importing, or to raise a revenue to defray the expences of the civil -establishment of the Province and they conclude by praying, that their grain may be admitted into the home consumption of Great Britain.—Sir, this tale of distress is interesting to us as well as to the Petitioners ; be cause the adversity as well as the prosperity ofevery Colony is re. fleeted back upon the slother Country. It is obvious that if the exports of Lower Canada are insufficient to pay for her imports, the British merchants and manufacturers, by whom they are supplied, cannot be paid ; and that if the Colonial 'Revenue will not provide for the civil establishment (and Lower Canada is the only British Colony that pays the whole ex;: pence of her civil establishment), the Governor, Judges, and other Officers, who are sent out from hence, must be paid out of the revenue of thi s country . Th e statements i n the Petition, that their produce is rendered of no value by our late regula tions, are by no means exaggerated. As to their timber, it is a fact within my own knowledge, that a cargo was lately con signed to a respectable house in this city, who refused to receive it, being aware that instead of leaving any nett proceeds, it would bring the shipper in debt. They, therefore, left it to the Captain, who disposed of it, and found it insufficient to pay the freight and charges of sale. So that timber from the British Provinces in North America is not only a total loss of the prime cost, but brings a further demand upon the owner. Such are the consequences of the new duties on timber, settled last session of Parliament. With respect to their corn, it is only admitted into our home consumption when the average price of British wheat exceeds 87s. per quarter; and therefore, all that has arrived here since the month of Oct. 1820, still lies locked up in our warehouses, with every pros pect of remai n i ng t h ere t ill i t is spoiled, or ll the value of it is sunk in rent and charges. I have before had occasion to assert, in this House, the necessity either of continuing to act towards our Colonies on our old system of protection, or of re leasing them from those restrictions to which they are subjected for the advantage of the mother-country. To require from them a double monopoly, to bind them to take all their supplies from you, and to ship all the produce of their industry to your mar ket, while you pass such laws as render it of no value, or pro hibit it from your home consumpti on a lt oget h er; (which is pre cisely the case with these Petitioners), is exercising an unex ampled degree of arbitrary power over them, and if continued, must soon devote them to absolute ruin • I trust s therefo re , that this Petition will meet that favoura ble consideration to which it is entitled. Mr. ELLICE wished to offer one or two observations on the Petition presented by his lion. Friend (Mr. Marryat), and to beg the attention of the House to the serious evils so justly complained of by the Petitioners. No person unacquainted with the provinces of Canada could form a just idea of the con trast which their present situation presented to their former prosperity, or of the consequences that must inevitably result from the continued restrictions on their trade. Last year the alteration on the timber duties bore heavily on that branch of their commerce; and for the first time the operation of the Corn Laws prevented the introduction into this market of the other staple article of 'their produce. They were also, if re port spoke true, threatened with the loss of their West India trade—a subject now under discussion, and which must be settled with fair reference to the various interests concerned in it ; and it was impossible to foresee what might be the results of all these measures to that unfortunate colony. If they were not permitted to send their produce to this market, while it was excluded from many others by the operation of the naviga tion laws, it was impossible they could long pay for the manu. factures and supplies we compelled them to receive solely from this country ; and he did hope some relaxation of the present restriction and, above all, the admission of their corn, might be conceded, without risk of injury to the agricultural interests. He again begged leave to recommend the Petition to the seri ous consideration of the House and of Government. Mr. BENETT (of Wilts) opposed the prayer of the Peti tion, on 'the ground th a t it was as necessary to protect the Eng rialAgriculturist, as it could be to relieve the Canadian corn grower. When corn might be imported into this country, large quantities of American grain had been sent to Canada, and thence smuggled into England as being of Canadian growth ; so that the restraint now complained of the Petition ers had in fact brought upon themselves. He wished to give the Colonies all equitable protection, but could not consent to afford that species of relief which the petitioners now desired. Mr. WILMOT was fully convinced of the reality of the dis tress complained of by the Petitioners, but at the same time he must remark, that there was nothing in the measures lately adopted that could produce that distress. Ile thought it de sirable that this Petition should be referred to the special notice of the Agricultural Committee. Mr. RICARDO thought the House bound to attend to the justice of the complaints contained in the Petition. The Cana dians, in his opinion, suffered great and serious hardships which ought to be removed; they complained chiefly of three grievances, which were-Ist. That we did not take timber from them on the same terms as we did before.-2d. That we re. fused to admit their corn.—And 3dly. That they were sub jected to the inconvenience of purchasingall articles in our mar kets. As, to the first, we hada right to go to any market we pleased for our timber, but on that very principle the second cause of grievance ought to be done away, and their corn ought to have access to our markets. Whenever that subject was proposed in th e H ouse , h e wou ld g i ve i t h i s best assist ance to put their corn trade on that footing ; with respect to the third point, the forcing the colonies to purchase in our markets, when they might be more conveniently supplied elsewhere, it was an inconvenience to which they ought not to be exposed. He would always oppose that principle, not only as applied to Canada, but to every other Colony. Sir I. COFFIN thought it would have been a good thing for this country, if Canada had been sunk to the bottom of the sea. It cost this country 500,0001. per annum, and did not make a return to it of 500 pence. The Canadians, by the timber trade, had been id_the habit of cheating this country out of 300,0001. yearly. This had been done by suffering great quantities of American timber to be sent down the River St. Lawrence, which had been then brought to England as Canadian timber. Yet after acting such a part, they now threw themselves on that House for support. The sooner the Governor was called home, and the sooner the Assembly and Colony were su ff ere d t o go , he should be sorry "to say—au Diable, the better. Mr.' W. allowed that Canada cost us a great deal of money, but that made it the more necessary to take such steps as did not interfere with its improvement. He was con vinced' that if the province of Canada was made 'easy and com fortable with respect to its commercial relations, we need not be at the expence of a heavy Military Establishment to defend PRICE SEVENPENCt which it appeared the Magistrates had reposed in him ; he surer of the Navy, for instance, must have a colleague.• r a came to them from the hulks, recommended by an excellent fact, his Right Hon. Friend was not only alone in a situitioa character, and it was by his previous conduct he had been able of responsibility, but he was himself a double representatia naturally.enough to impose upon them. So well had he de- of official trusts, for he filled two offices of that nature. There served that character when he first had the superintendence of was an opinion of Mr. Palmer given in evidence before t the prison, that the non. Member opposite (Mr. Buxton) when Cornmtitee of that House, that it was disadvantageous to ti ::• he had visited it, said, " I was not so fortunate as to see the .... business of th e Post-office to have frequent c h anges i n ti ,• gaoler, but t he general aspect of the prison convinced me th a t heads of the dep ar t ment . If t h e occasional changes dope. he had done his duty well towards the Magistrates - ' who had ent upon a change of p ower pro d uce d suc h di sa dvantges, i. • also nobly disch a r ge d th e i rs ." Th e Ri g h t Hon. Gentleman would put it to the House what practical good could arise fie::: concluded by urging the propriety of placing a confidence in the alternate changes of superintendence which constant; the integrity and impartiality of the Magistracy, on account of took place between the two Post Masters General. There vies the great importance of their gratuitous services to the country; an opinion of Lord Chesterfield, when he was 'Postrnastoi. and the necessity of giving them the fullest support. General, given before the Finance Committee of 1799, whiz:, Mr. BEN NET would be as ready as any man to recal cen. he would read to the House. His Lordship was asked, "If any sures too hastily pronounced, but every thing tended to con- difference of opinion should exist between the two Postmaster. firm him in the opinion that those which he had formerly bestow- General, how would they come to a decision ?" To which- he ed on the visiting Magistrates were just. He believed them to answered, " Such a case, I believe, would very seldom occur ; be unfit for their situations, and had it in contempl a ti o n t o but if it did, I suppose the junior would be disposed to giss 'submit a motion to the House for their removal, considering way to the senior." The House would therefore see that tor' them to have broken their trust; if the evidence turned out as were paying 2,5001. a year to a Noble Marquis, to enable hi.., he expected it would turn out, he should take the step which to be disposed to give way to a Noble Earl. It ought s;•.; , he had announced, if no other Hon. Member brought the subs to be remembered, that for the greater part of two years t ject forward. Noble Earl was engaged in diplomatic transactions abroad, sa Mr. HUME thought, as he had stated before, that several of that it was quite clear he had no duties to perform tonne:.':: e the Magistrates had appeared destitute of humanity. He con- with this office. He would say a few words as to the Irise curred in the view which his lion. Friend (Mr. dtennat) took and Scotch departments. It was not his intention to include ex..., of this subject. Unwilling to pass hasty censure, he approved in his resolution, as he should keep as close as ros.Bible to t', of the call which the Right Hon. Gentleman made on them, to schedule of the former Bill which he had quoted. But he cc:. suspend their opinion till Inquiry could take place ; and he re- ceived that if the House admitted the principle, by agreeing•t • gretted that Ministers had not a cted on this feeling in anoth er the Resolution, th ey wou ld a f terwards extend' its operation 't case, where a Gallant Officer was concerned. It was not well, those branches of the department. With regard to Scotland , that Ministers should adopt this principle in some cases, and he understood that the office there was a complete sinecure ; act in direct opposition to it in others. for the collection of the revenue was managed under the Eng- The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, at diff e r e nt p erio d s , lish Postmaster-Gen era l. I n f act , t h e A ct o f t h e 9 t h of Ann- when the affairs had, so placed it. In Ir e l a nd, it was i mposs ibl e b ut t h at ever reference had been m a d e t o th e or d ers su p pose d to h ave b een : of Ilchester Jail had come before the H ouse , Honourable Member, w h o h a d l oo k e d at t h e accounts, must perceive that the P os t-office expenses were nearly do u bl e- - made by cert a in Le arne d J u d ges f or th e regu l at i on of that He was of opinion, that b o th t h e P ostmasters- G eneral in th s. Jail. lie had in co nsequence t a k en occasion to d es i re that these regulations should ( be sent up. He had se e n th em in country ought to be a b o li s h e d, if t h ey l oo k e d at t h e duty wide:. their original state, and as they were afterwards intend e d t o b e . was to be perfo rme d b y t h em. B ut as nothing could be F, ? acted upon. In the o r i g i na l th ere were t h ree or f our h arsh desirable as to k ee p G ent l emen i n Ireland, he would even mak • rules, which ought not to be used for any Jail in the kingdom. the sacrifice of one, although both might be reduced wi;.: But he was in a situation to state that these had been disallow- perfect safety to the public service. lie begged to observe, ed by the Judges, and those subsequently allowed were not that he had brought forward this question as a measurer.; only such as the law sanctioned, but they were not open to any specific economy. He did not at all wish to put it in the ligi t - objection in other respects. H e men ti one d t hi s, as an id ea had of affecting the influenc e o f th e C rown, an d h e s h ould there. gone abroad that one of those learned p ersons h a d sanct i one d fore deliver no opinio n u p on t h at su bj ect. When it came be regulations which were harsh and severe. Such as they were, fore the House in a regular shape, he should be quite pro be was confident that they would be considered satisfactory by Pared to deliver his sentiments upon it. If, however, his mo the House. tion was to be opposed upon the ground of its lessening the The Petition was then brought up, and ordered to be printed. influence of the Crown,. he should then say that the people hesi Sir ROBERT WILSON presented the Petition from loch amhcgaroadosi Crown nsu r t o n djetuunh unjust d i tno)ace people, i cls, eotthat. a just right to. complain of ,the Manner in which their distress dale on the same subject, which was read and ordered to be overgrownspuatstatecit:heon sg ne circumstancesec eosta'snataxation,dry ppreservative ee w rr ve' influence;h a i tt icohavbne be turned. a ot v ifut e r. iwt ;: . I L :. is was considered. A long war, and ire consequent expenditure. printed. HOP DUTIES. of S th ir e ß gr . o l i t y 7 t l h L o S f o lB N 2l , moved di sti n fo g r o n in ac g co th un e t d o ur f e th ren ed ee ut h ies etw on ee H n o t g e s which n y power of the l CrOWn. as ßefore he sat down, he was anxious old and new duties.—Ordered. c W isi c o ai n i to th u e • must come e eo H m o e u u se p t i, o n t t l h ie is im p,3rtance of Notth the n t! i e .._ • . PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. Mr. MABERLY wished to know if the information which its• of question. 1 upon own merits, as a measure practic a l economy, was it had been promised to him on a former night, and on which pro- important, but considered relatively to the decision 1• ' to w nee miss he had pUt off his motion respecting the Public Accounts, the House came a few nights ,when ago two useless offices were was to be given or not ? abolished. The present decision would prove whether Ger.- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was unable tlemen meant their vote of the other night as a first dividend or to give an answer in the absence of his Hon. Friend (Mr. economy paid to their constituents, or whether it was intended Lushington). When he arrived he would probably be able to as a discharge in full of all their demands. He rejoiced in the satisfy the Hon. Gentleman. success of his lion. Friend's motion upon that occasion as Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a Petition from Calling- much as any man • but if it involved no principle—if it was wood, in the To w n s hip o f Oldh a m, in th e C oun ty P a l at i ne o f meant by those who supported it as the definitive quantity oS Lancaster, praying for the remission of the remainder of Mr. reduction which they would support, and then use it as a proof Hunt's sentence.—Ordered to lie on the table. ' that they had redeemed their pledges of economy, he would POSTMASTERS GENERAL. rather that his Honourable Friend had sat in solitude on that side of the House, and uttered his single " Aye," when th e Lord NORMANBY would feel the diffidence w hi c h h e ex- question was put. lie did not mean to say that Honourable pressed when addressing the House much increased if the Members were bound by that vote to support every motion motion which 'he had to submit were of a personal nature.-- for reduction or . which was afterwards to be submitted to them.— But from this feeling he was relieved, as he only rose to per- But if they considered the two Postmasters-General to be form a duty open to every Member of Parliament, that of bringing before the House a case in w hi c h a c l e a r re d uct i on no more necessary th an seven L or d s o f t h e Ad m i ra l ty, fl it . very ground could be made. To hi m it was ma tt er o f sat i s f act i on t h at the were bound to support hi m . A n d t h at was the on which he w as anx i ous to p l ace t h e quest i on. He did no: present motion did not i nvo l ve an y o f t h ose h ar d s hi ps on in. see his Honour a bl e F r i en d t h e M em b er f or Y orkshire in nomy for their object. dividuals which were insep ara bl e from many which had eco his place, but h e cer t a i n l y h ope d f or hi s vote, i f he acted - When it was proposed to di sm i ss those in conformity to his former declaration, that lie should sop individuals who either in the field or in official labours had port every reduction which did not involve the safety of the spent contemplate outh in the aervice of their country, it was pain- State. It his Honourable Friend, therefore, did not con ful to the privations to which entry, i t be ex- eider that the office was a necessary one to the public service, he posed. But when he looked at the case of those who now, or must votethe motion. he opposed it, - for who at any time possessed the offices, one of which he meant to reduce, he could not doubt that the deci s i o n o f th e H ouse the ground that it w as ind is p ensa bl e . H e truste d t h at theH •wouldseethe question •the light in ' hichi.e had House would be cheerfully acquiesced in, if the motion should be deavoured to place it. If they rejected the motion, they would carried. It was also a matter of satisfaction that this was not be acting in defiance of the opinion of the country, in derision a case involving a claim of remuneration. No charge could of its sufferings, and in utter oblivion of all the ' pledges of be preferred against the department to which he wished to economy which they had given. Ile 'concluded by moving the direct the attention of the House. It was impossible too highly followingresolution —" That it is the opinion of this House; was praise the manner in which the business of the Post-Office that without : to ,t _ that detriment he , public service, the duties of the there. carried on, and the activity and courtesy constantly found office • of Joint Post-master-General maybe performed by one there. Nor did any blame attach to the Government Job, as that had originally been, individual, and the salary of the other b e th ere by save d to t h e " had ••ontinued, it was to to which he objected, and job as it be remembered that it had endur e d in Public- • good and in bad time ; and it w a s . perhaps too much to e x - M r . ROBINSON sa id , that a l though his Noble Friend in pest from any Government that it would surrender such a bringing forward his motion had thought proper to deprecate branch of patronage of itself, without receiving a hint f rom a cer t a i n course o f oppos i t i on to Nth as being unfair, h e (M r . that House. lt, however, became necessary that it should Robinson) confessed that he felt himself bound to take that be abandoned ; and he hoped that Ministers, feeling the im. very course as one which imperiously called for the rejection portance of economy, would give that attention to this sug. of the proposition. With regard to the Bill of 1812; to which gestion which in its judgment it might fairly demand.— his Noble Friend had alluded, lie for one never assented to He was not responsible for first bringing the matter forward that B i ll, b ecause h e h e ld i ts pr i nc i p l e to he erroneous. •lie for the discussion of the House. It was not a new question, could not now look at the question in that narrow point of for he found that two Bills had been introduced to the House view in which his Noble Friend was disposed to do. When he in 1812-13. The one, being entitled a Bill for abolishing sine- came down to the House, be confessed that he was disposed cures and offices, the duties of which were executed by Deputy, to discuss it upon those grounds ; but the course of his &obis he found in Schedule A. a passage which stated " that the duty Friend's argument rendered it necessary that the question of the Joint Postmaster-Generalship should be execu t e d b y s h ou ld b e ta k en up i n its more extended bearings and connec. 1 one person, and the salary of the other be thereby saved to the tions. His Noble Friend admitted, that he expected the public. It was now to be determined whether the House was success of his motion to lead to similar propositions upon . less disposed at the present period to come to such a resolution similar grounds. That the principle being adopted, should be than at the time to which he had referred. This office had carried into further and more extensive operation.—(Hear, been originally vested in one person only, as the 9th of Queen hear !)—Therefore if this was only to be the precedent for the Anne expressly declared. This being the case, he thought it reduction of various other offices, it broughedistinctly under impossible to say that the original intention of Parliament had the view of the House the question whether the influence ought not been departed from. At least it required more legal to be diminished or not. He knew it was very easy to take subtlety than he possessed, to prove that one made two. declarations Of Hon. Members, such as that of his H onoura bl e The language of the Act could not be mistaken. Th e period Friend, the Member for Yorkshire, that he would vote for had been called the Augustine age; and certainly, although all reductions consi s t e nt with th e sa f ety o f t h e State—it the Acts of Parliament might not be very classical in their was very easy and very convenient to take such sentiments, construction, they were at least written in good English, and make use of them by way of taunt, coupled with the which was more than could be said of those passed in more question of whether the safety of the State depended upon modern days. When the office in question was divided he a Postmaster-General. It was very convenient to do this, could notsexactly trace, but it doubtless took place soon after but he did not conceive it to be the fair or the enlightened view the passing of the Act, as there was at that time a great dis. of the question which he had expected from his Noble Friend. position to create need' offices and places. He could not say' For his own part, he should take this ground, and he was whether the salary was doubled at the division of the office. prepared to maintain it, that the influence of the Crown But as the system of remuneration which then prevailed was ought' not to be diminished, and that the proposition of that of fees, it was most reasonable to suppose that such fees his Noble Friend would tend to produce that effect. He were doubled. it would be seen, however, that for some titne was aware that this could . not be a popular ground, but after the appointment of' two Postmasters-General, one of no considerations of that nature ever had deterred, or ever them assisted in the transacting of official business, so th a t s h ou ld . d e t er him from adopting that conduct whi c h h e be at least in those days, the offices were not those complete lieved to be in consistence with his duty. If they .examined and dignified sinecures, which they were now. He also found into all history in all time, they found a certain degree of in those days the names of Freeling, Craggs, Walpole, and power exi s t e d w h erever th ere w as a G overnment, which was Harris, as performing the duties of the office. With respect to for the benefit of the State so governed. But there must be the duties of the offices, as they at present stood, it was impos- a line at which this power should stop. The question then be sible that their abolition should be. detrimental to the public came that of- where the line should be drawn ? In the present service. He felt the onus of proof upon this point very much case his Noble Friend had touched very cautiously upon that lessened by the fact that the House had twice expressed its question ; but he had said enough to shew clearly that he con opinion that they ought to be abolished, in the Sinecure Bills sidered the influence of the Crown to be now in a state to be which had passed. -If the onus were not thus lessened for him, reduced. He, however, was prepared to say that that info there was the notorious fact that not one of these officers, much ence was not now in a condition to be reduced. He knew more both of them, had any duties to perform. Both might be it might be shown that a greater number of offices were now reduced without any disadvantage to the public. That, how. in existence than m former periods. But that was by no in ais ever, it was not his object to propose, as he was willing to a proper view of the question, unless they looked at all the allow there was some satisfaction, if net profit, in having a counteracting causes which had sprung up to oppose —as he great name at the head of so important an establishment. hoped there always would be opposed—a barrier to the growth There was another point upon which the Honourable Gentle- of undue influence on the part of the Crown. If thty looked man said he would make a few observations. It had been at the situation of this country now and compared ,it w.th said that the responsibility of the - proper collection of the Post its situation in former times, or with that of other countries, Office revenue was shared by the Post Masters General, they would find that a salutary power had arisen which ren and that this was a double security. Now it was so absurdly dered inefficient the influence of the Crown, if exerted for any preposteious to suppose that one should be a check upon the purposes hostile.to the freedom of the people. Only let theta other, that no man, he was convinced, could seriously lend his consider the almost universal distribution of knowledge i n t hi s ear to it: A sort f ambiguous opinion had been expressed ,country at the present moment.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) by the Finance Committee of 1817 upon this questio n . The —He hoped he should be allowed to profes s a nd to feel respect only reason which made them unfriendly to the abolition, was, for that general knowledge which gave so much value and that so important a responsibility as the collection of the revs.. strength to public opinion. The progress of information - nue in this department ought not to be left to one individual.— within the last fifty years was greater than could have been bes.• s.• But to what would this principle lead ? It must lead to the lieved to be• possible s by those vsho were -living at that. time. - duplication - of all offices of responsibility. And th ere were 'Was it 'not a fact that a public man in these days acted user a many cases in which new offices must be created if that prin. weight of responsibility in the desisions of public opinion, el* were acted upon. His Right Hon. Friend, the Trea- • which had no existence in former times ? He did not mean