The Sun. — London, England, 1801-02-23 00:00:00

I Wednesday next, On the Motion of MY. 'ROSE, who said he had some observations to make on it. • On the . Ouestion for the second reading of the Additional Stamp Duty Bill Mr. jjO'BHOUSE said he had some observa tions to make on this Bill, . which he would not do in so thin a •House, but which he should take up in some other stage 'of it,' of which . opportunities would be . afforded. Mr. ROSS obierved thatit was not usual to debate the principle of a Bill after tha second reading.. . The Bill was read a second time; and ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole House on Friday next. On the question being put, for the second read ing of the Horse Duty Bill, .„ Mr. JOLLIFFE sfsict, it was, not his dispo sition. to show any more - opposition to the Mea sures. of Governnient than .was absolutely neces spy ,; as it appeared to him he must state_ what he .really felt; as objeaions to. this Bill ; anti if they appeared to Ministers, as they : appeared to him, something instead of this Measure would be pro posed in a Committee : this had been done by the CHANCtLi.OR of the EXCHEQUER on a former occasion—this should ,be done in this case ; espe . chilly if this . Measure should•appear to be haras singto the individual, and of detriment to the. Revenue, at one and the•same time. He was confident it would not.: be'. the wish of the House, that suet] a Measure should. be. carried on, when more money might be raised, for the benefit of the Community than was proposed by this,. in ano ther way. There were two parts in which he had objeaions to this Bill :- thd one was to the: increase of the Duty now subsisting on Horses ; the other was to that which was proposed to be laid on Horses used in AgrieultUre. The first Would be very inconvenient to individuals, and, he believed, of no - ultimate use to the Revenue. This was called a. Tax on luxury—there were bounds even to a Tax on luxury. All that could be expected of any man, was that of diminishing his luxuries, his necessaries of life he could not diMinish for the benefit of the State.. This would be the case in this Duty, but then the Revenue would lose instead of gaitiing.money by it, Sup_ pose a Gentleman had four coach-horses, which now pay 31. each the additional Duty is laid On of 20S. each ; he puts by two of them,, the Re venue in that case will gain 4os. and lose 61. This he knew . was the case, to a gi,ven extent. When the last Duty . Was imposed, he knew one family ,in which.seven carriages were .laid down at once : it would be more so now, and so 'this Duty would only fret and harass individuals, and at the same time diminish the Revenue, He was confident that a lower Tax on this article would bring more money into the Exchequer, as well as lie infinitely more suitable 'to the individual—so much for the Duty cm Pleasure-horses.• That of the Duty on Horses in 'Asriculture was most un just. It was said that this Duty would have the died of mdcing• Farmers use oxen instead of horses, which was.mucli to be desired. He ad mitted that 'was much to be wished, but wishing it was useless, for in many places the pradice could not be adopted : such, for instance, as where the land was full of stones and flint ; so that thispart of the Bill was not a measure of justice, cilling on men to bear an equitably part in support of the State, but calling on 'a man to pay an extraordinary sum of money, because the land he lives on happens to be full of flint, for that sort of land could not be ploughed or tilled by the labour of oxen. This would produce par tial burtheni and more oppression than the pro_ duce of the Tax would be worth. He thought it would be better that the Tax should. extend to Tradesmen, such as Butchers•and Chandlers, and others who used Horses in trade, as well as Farmers : be thought they were improperly ex empted in this Hilt. 'There was' no justice in this Bill ; every man who kept a Horse should • actually pay . for it, orelse the Farmer should not. Mr. ROSE observed, that the Hon. Gentle. man stated; in the first place, that from the Duty now proposed on Horses used for Pleasure, the gevenuc.wOuld be diminished instead - of - being increased, because a certain number of men would lay down that pleasure. That would ben solid objedion to the Duty, if it were clear th at it - - - - - - would have that efre&; but he apprehended that it would have no such effelt in general. Some individuals might, possibly, lay down their use of Horses ; but he apprehended they' would be *cry few in comparison of those who would con tinue them. For instance, who would forego the advantage and convenience of being drawn, at his pleasure, in a coach and four horses, for the sake of saving 41, a-year He apprehended there were shot many who Would do that. The general ob. servations of the Hon. Gentleman needed nOother answer, than that they amounted to a general ob jeaion to any Tax upon luxury ; a species ofargu. ment that did not require much to be .said futation of it. -Ass. to Horses used in Agricul ture, the Tax, .as far as he had conversed . with others (for he did not pretend to have much km*. ledge of his own .upon the subjea),_ tht general opinion was, that it ought to go a good deal fur. ether. The Hon. Gentleman underst'ood farming better than he (Mr. Rose) pretended to do ; but he understood there were but very few parts of this Country %here oxen might not be employed in tillage instead of horses : lie understood there was a method of shoeing their hoofs, ao that they might work almost any where, even amongst gravel . and stones ; and he had heard that they. went as quickly as, and in some cases, more so, than horses. He was convinced, in his own mind, that, considering the price of grain, and the differentmanner in which horses and oxen are fed, ancrthat the labour of the one m:ty be 'sub. stituted so much for the other, this' Tax would do a great deal of good, He apprehended, how. ever, that this subje6 would be discussed again, and therefore' he would not say . any mOre upon it pow. Mr. .70LI,IFFE said, he had no desire to dis'cussir again ; but he apprehended the Hon. gentleman had norgiveri one word of real answer to Ills objections against this mearae.. • Mr. ROSE said, that the Sum proposed to be raised by this Ditty wal 136,0001. but by' the manner , in which the Hon. Gentleman wishdd to modify it, he believed it would not produce 30,0001. The Bill was then read a second time, and or.. dered to be committed to a Committee of the whole House on TucSday. On reading the Order of, the DaY for the se cond reading of the PoOt-office new Duty Mr. ,ALARDYCE objected to it, on the • ground that distant parts of the Island should not be made the subjects:of taxation, merely on ,ac. count bf their distance from .the Metropolis: That they should pay more f or . the 'carriage of their letters, on account of their distance, was an unavoidable inconvenience to them, but why they should.be additionally taxed, and called upon to. contribute, to the 'support of the State in propor tion to: their distance from the Capital 4 he did not comprehend. A letter was of .no more value at Inverness than it was at slltzni'hesser, and, al though a arson _ought to pay, more for The car riage. of his letter to InVerness than, to Manches ter, there was no reason to load him with the burthens of the State, on that .account. In that view of the thing, and considering a letter as a subject of taxation merely, the tax upon it, inde-, pendent of the charge of carrying it, should be no more at . ./weera . err than it was at Barnet ; at least he was unable, to comprehend why a distinc... tion - should be made in this particular. He bad no objeaion 'to an additional' Duty On the postage of L,etters,,lnit as this was intended to be a measure to support the State, the burthen ought to be laid ori'His Majesty's Subjeas whits:Mt-any reference to the accidental circumstance of distance from the Seat of Government. This mode ought to be altered in the Committee on the Bill. The SPEAKER observed, that the Hon. Gen_ tleman would be aware, that if it was his objea to alter the Rate of Duty to be imposed on any of His Majesty's Subjeas, so as to make thai could only be done in a Committee of the whole House to consider of Ways and Means for raising a Supply. If it was his objea to lower the Rate of Duty already voted, 'that might be done in a Committee on the Bill. In the Coin. inittee on the Bill, it was competent to any MeMber to propose that the Rate of Duty might be less, but not that in any case it might be lager than - the vote of the Committee el Ways and Means, and therefore the objeCtWhich the Hon: Gentleman seemed to have in view was attainable only in a Committee of Ways and Means. Mr. ALLARPYCE said, he did not mean to say that the Rate of Duty of Postage of Letters ought not to 'be higher, but that the hurthen ought to be borne equally ; it would otherwise be an injustice. Mr. ROSE said, that the Hon. Gentleman had suggested a new principle as, applic.ibleto Rip; and one which might be lit to be discussed in a Committee perhaps.' The Bill was then read'a second time, and or.. ired fo be .committed to a Coltinittee of the wlo l .o }ionic on Monday next. On reading the Order of the Day fur the second reading of Sir SIDNEY SMI'TH'S Annuity INII, Mr. HO B HOllB E said,le trusted that it was intended that thiS Pension sltould, be made to commence from the date of tfiv gioriotp Action _ • of Sir St ',way Smrrtt at Acre, and not from the present period : he was not asking for that which was withdkit precedent ; it was the case in the Pensions of Lord;ST. VtwcUNT and Lord NEL SON. They were both made ;o commence from the glorious Aetions of which they. were the acknowledgment. Mr. ROSE observed, that this was matter fit fot discussion in the Committee. • . The SPEAKER said there was in the Bill a .blank, 'which he apprehended the 'Committee might till up as it pleased.- The Hill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed to a Commlttec of the whole - House on . Mondair next. " Mr. Pit AGG.E, reporte d at the Bar, that he had presented at . the tar of the House of Lords,., the Documents which had [ken ordered to he present ed to their, Loidships, in compliance. with their request. . Mr, BR AGG E then brought up. the Report of the-Committee of Ways' and Mea Hs, the Resolu, tions of which were read and agreed to.----As also the Report of the 'Committee of Supply, which was likewise read and agreed to. .• Sir GEQRGE SIIUCKRURGH EVe.4rN presented a Petition frOm the Parish of . TO6lllll, in the County of Warwick ; but before it wai read, Mr. TaBERFORCE BlRD.took occasion :o observe, that this Petition exhibited but too aithful a pitaure of the, distressed state of a great part of the inanuladuring pisqias of this Coun try, ofwhicti the neighbourhood of Coventry was a striking and. lamentable example. The Parish, on the behalf of ivhich this Petition was offered, contained 6+l houses, 0n1y,86 of which were inhabited by those who were able to pay to,the Poor Rates, and there were near 1300 Paupers. 'These persons, paying these Rates, prayed some relief, for that otherwise they will themselVes . be thiown upon the very Rates which they are con- tributinito pay, and which are already twenty four shillings in the Pound von a rack rent. He believed the .objet of the PCOOII was, '1 That it be mferted, to a Committee above stairs," and lie was sprry that a Right Hon. Gcrktlernan (Mr. PITT) wit's not present. He irks apprehensive that this Parish, unless it had solite'lWief, would be, as the Petitioners apprehenciO, entirely destroyed, The SPEAXEIZ said, that What 'the Hon. Member had observed, made it necessary ,that titer( should be a recommendation '. groin the Crown, before this Petition could be' read or received, since the obje# was to -raise money from the Public'. I Icre a doubt being suggested • .. SPEAKER said, 4 6 If it is the objea of this Petition to raise any Public money, I appre hend there should be a recommendation from the Crown before it can bt 'receivtg." Sir 'GEORGE S liticrßUßGH " I do not know that this is the object 'of the Petition.' • Mr. 110.BHOtISE, observed that the wordt of the prayer of the Petition being far " Such Re= lief as to the House .should s'em Meet; or clink iit," or to that effect, he conceived to.be perfea ly unobjedionable, and seemed to require no recommendation from the Crown. The SPPIKER said, the H. n. Members ap peared to have mistaken the.. prattice. He un. derstood the praaice of the House to be, wtieb a Petition was couched in ambiguous terms-- _ _ Sir..GEORGE SHUCKIIIIRGII El/EDW. " They are the common terms."— The SPEAKER.—" Order I The common pra&ice has been toiask the Member who presents the Petition, Whethei the objed of the Petition is to raise Public money.--The Hon. Membet said nothing when he presented it ; but another Hon. Member got up - be . fore the Petition was read, and, as I considered it, took the Petition upon himself.—lt then became my 'duty, as I conceive, to ask Whether that was the object of the PetitiOn ? it seems no longer under the _adoption of that Hon. Member." . .• - Sir GEORGE SHUCKBURGH EYELYIIT " I .did. not say—l, do• not knaw—Ahat it• is the object of the Petition to pray .. ,for Public Money—l have seen the Petitioners, rind they • did not tell me the Prayer of the Petition, or the object of the Petition to be any other than is e.t_ pressed. You know, or ought to know, that praying Relief in general. terms, requires no re commendation whatever." . Order! Order! • • Sir GEORGE SHUCKBURGH EI'ELYN— ." .Order ! who - is out of it?" . • The SPEAKER. 7 - r " The Honourable . Mem- • ber will not sit down. It is the dtixy of the House, as I understand it, to receive the State ments from the Chair,, with a degree Of:respeet, not as due to• me, .but to the House, 'bOattse, while in t4e. Chair, I represent .the Hpusei. and, therefore, want of respect to me in that situation, is want of respeet• to the House. I .know tfie Hon. Member did not mean to shew any disre.• sped to the House but it became me' to take the notice I have taken of what has,happened ; and the Honourable Member,, .on relie4lion s Idate say, be sorry for any interruption - to'Order which has hippened," - Mr. WILBERFORCE,BIRD piofessedgreat • respect fbr the SPE/ARR. What. he said. - ; - op the Petition was only as aßindividtta),--.l . ticf,he should say no more at plcScrit - . Mi.. LONG said, that not . a *ord han'alien from the. Hon.. Baronet himself,. :.which called. in , question the general pri4ice, as-stated- frOtntthe Authority crf the..Chait. It was Usual tin „pre:: senting 'a Petition, for the 'Member presenting it, to open the nature of the . 'Peritidn; and to state distinftly, whether the - ohjea of the Pea: tip!) was to obtain Publk•Money or not.. That the Hon. Baronet' did not do, but' anr . sther_ Gentleman proceeited.to „stale the substance of the. : Petition. Uildbet:;thes. -ques tion• whether . the •Petilion couldebraught up MK' Hid 011 the . Tabi,e, according tr.tba of r the House - rrtliC:(M H. •B a ronel _said, .4i that • • the object of the Petition was not pecuniary rk, lief," he knew of no.objedion to-the bringing it up, and receiving it, and it might be heard.- The petition vas then read, and it contained what Mr. W. BIRD had stated in substance, and concluded, "''That this Honourable - lousemay take it into consideration,.and grant such Rif ie"f as in its wisdom shall be deemed proper." • The SPEAKER.---" What would file Hon. Baronet move ?" Sir G. SHUCKBURGHEYELYIY -" That this Petition be , referred to the CoMmittee ap pointed to consider of the Hikh.Priet - of Pewit . bions." The Question was put and carried. , Acten Minutes after five;o'Clock the House *a djourned' to Monday. Thelallowing is a correa Copy of the Form in which the Thanks of the House of Commons were communicated to,Mr. Ai)DINGTON, and of his Answer ; as extraaed from cite . Votes of the 7th.ink.—The S? EAK E R said ; ‘ 1 Mr. ADDINcTON; l'he,House have unanimously resolved, That thC Thanki of . this. House be expressed in.the strongest terms to you, Sir, for the exemplary and distinguished manner in which you .have dis, charged the dutie s Of-Speaker; during the whole of the period in which you filled the Chair of the House of Cominons,: That you be assured, that .the. prods which you.have uniformly given of Attachment to the Constitution, the Steadiness with which you have.maintained the Dignity and Privileges of this House, the ability, in tegrity, and unremitting attention to Parlia mentary Business, which have marked the whole of your monad, justly entitle yoq . to their ap.: probation, resiaeft arid gratitude; and it is my duty to convey to 'you the Thanks of the House, according to this Resolution. In diScharge, of this duty, if I . were to indulge my private feel ,ings, I should 'easily •find topics on which to ex patiate. But lam to thank you for your condua in this Chair, and,on that subject the Resolution itself amply conveys the opinion of theffouse......- If I %Trete endeavour to give their sentiments in other worth, I should probably only weaken the force of the 'expressions which they have , used ; and I will not, therefore, 'attempt to convey to you their Thanks in any language* but their own." Upon which Mr. ADDINCTO?4 said; " Mr. SPEAXSR, " It is with sensations of the most respeElful, and heart-felt, gratitude, that I receive the testi mony ofapprohation, which you have communi cated teroe, in obedience to the CornmJnds'Of the House. To enjoy theii good opinion, was . my pride, and comfort, during my 'continuance in their scriiiCe.; to experience such a: proof of it, as has•been atforded Me upon-the present occa sion, is; indeed,,: the highest honour,. and the most gtatifyank • reward. Being only. conscious • of hating discharged my duty with zeal, and fidelity; I feel a satisfaition, whidl I am unable to express, in being allowed to indulge the hope, that the - Chair, in which you preside, has not lost, by my conduit, any portion.of that Digni.. ty, and Authority, which are so essential to the well-regulated Freedom of Debate, as well as to the Rights;and.Privileges, of the Representatives will ever be disposed to mamin, My bot.ae m Inowledgements, Sir, ,are dtie to you, ftir the . manner in - Which - you liaie been pleased to - eater: cute the orders of the House: 'I o the House it. self I owe 'every obligation, which can bind the dory;-. veneration, and . attachment, of an vielbal-,- to the first Pdblic:Body in the World.ll, I ~~ Frc.',7 the LONDON GAZETTE, Fee. I a .. - . . .. . AY the Court at the Queen's House, the 18th of ATlsitia 7 iy, iSor—Present, the King's MOst. ~..., Excellent Majesty in Council. : . 1 . This day the Right Honourable Sir John Mit t 1 fprd , ;Knight; ) Spea k er peaker of the House of Commons, • .h . • was, by His Maje Sty's Command, sworn of His. ' Majess3es...Most. Honourable Privy-Council, and- i took• his.Plact at the Board accordingly. i i , 'At :the C ourt at the Queen's Houie, the 2oitt‘ of February, 18th—present, the n -Kig:s' Mdit ~. . . i Excellent Majes . ty in Council. ' I.iri 'day the Right Honourable John Rati - to St; - Vincent, the Right Honourable Charle; . - :., George Lord Arden, and the Right Honourable . Charles Yorke, were, by His• Maje sty's Command, SWOP) of His Majesty's 1Y16. 4 tq-lonottrable,Ptivy - ' Council, and took . : their rlac'.4s'at ,!4. Bard . cordingly, ' l ' At. tile Court .at the Qtken!*l - lone, the-204i of Yelail'ail-, 186 f—present, "the -King's . Agottl . k.;keelleovll:.tjspy•in - Council; - '-' • : - • ' ' ." • ' " ' -,.. . .'His lVtajesty living Ifeen..pleisecl to• appoiitt rhe.itight• lioncarrabte A61'56-141-03' jenkins , o;: - cotmpnljf.ctitled f.prd.liky t ;kc.g.A.iy.; tO;lic one a. Ilis mai6-sii , .,:s PritirOl 7 SeCyci A lire .of 6'tate;. , -ikii ' LordShsi)wa this ... clay; . 55;;.1-lii Wraics • ty . .'..ll . .•geki. . :ma nd; . sworn' One; of . .f.lii -.lAajeity% Prindiiikile.: • eretaries'ofStaietaccbilliaghy. . 7 _ .; : .... • ...- . . , , ' St..'.lpri t es'i . k e g . 2b . ' * -,. .:. : The .11::ifli:WA . 4,7 . this dtty4;rl-eased:ro coufer etre , .140 - twin..of Aii.igruitoOd . tin, ttliiit(l . - L•ii. -. Eir* - .. i 3 .. t . 11 6 1 Dikies 4yol):Atl9rtry. General. . • ...:, ... - "- '. '' ' . .i....-- - -;-• ' -'' - : 0 , - ~- • - • - - ' '"-'. ! iil Li. •••*'#seciiiifi l : *• - z.i'k , - 3 1; ~ . :. 4 :4liikiek . :tillecill)l6ieifti.coriititiateanif;p r , • 7•:. ,., pokup t tlie..../(gh,e , flo.loitrtt•bl . e.jojkii g:icloiSt, Yin..' ce . n t , :',Ac t i f f l ir t l - gfliis , V."'bite-... '• u:kilron -ot Fits lkiti.' .". jisty's IFlLl'es; Pot S, tiktlif pf:.t d Most tiOpOrab 1 ' ti ... . '1 '(:).Plicr • .of :ille t . , liarifi : . 4piti, , ..i'llill.i.S.tellliells,. 13:144. ..-. William .Eliot,. E.. , 1 / 4 1:. . - § . tr . •:T . boinas Trciubri4g4 ‘, Eliff;-,litiii4 • Ad7n3l:4,,_Ab,... ; •Mi:riclAnn,. anti - 0i1... . . , . . liam '-'Gar thihore r 7,Bqt.s. Av. be .11is . Majesty 4 4. - • Otiiirroislip . itei:s* for,e,cedtfting , the'Office . of 1-lig4 A4ttiiii4 . .6lthe Viiiteci,,g 4 i4g49l3 of. Great Bri_tair4 and Irelan d , and the , -Dethistions, , Islands, and .. . .. .:I:4Erii4aties.thereunto belonging. -. . , ... 186 1 , s Majdsty, :Hit. Royal Letters, 'having. Esq; to b e o flll3 IVliilesty's Most Honourable - Privy Council that part aiHis United Kingdom called Irelancti he, this day,, in Council, took the.usual Oaths, and hit, )lace at the Board acordinkly. • . - .03..totturrs, str.Ta.rnorrow.). T H ."S N. • . . . • „ 7".• , - . igLLM Q1:11 D;CtRE rA.LSVM AUDI.A 3 / 4 ' ? . . To satisfy thy. pUblic anxiety respeEting, His MAJESTY'S Health, the following Bulletin- wait yesterday written out by 'His Physicimm,,ind left in an. anti room of-the Queen'; House, where it' was S hewn to many of the,Nobility and Gentry who went thither to make inquiries, = BULLETIN. rY " Theitt NIG has had a bad cold; has at present a lit. " tle fever, accompanied kith a cough and hoarseness. . (Signed) "T. GISBORNE. " aid of M. isoi. " H. R. REYNOLDS." ' THE following Arringements, we understand, are finally settled, in addition to those which we have 'already laid before the Public. - The Earl of-HARDwicra is to be Lord Lieu tenant of Ireland ; • • Lord LEWISHAM, President of the Board of Controul ; and LordGEottal THYNNE, one of the Lords of the Treasury. The. Gazette of Saturday, as .we anticipated in our last Paper, contains the New Commission of the Board of Admiralty, the new Members of which we correaly stated on Saturday. It also announces Lord HAwicusaußY'S Appointment as Secretary of State for . Foreign Affairs. • ; Mr. LAw, the new Attorney-General, was Knighted at the Levee on Friday; at the Queen's House ; and. Earl ST. VINCENT, the SP EAK E. it of the House of Commons, Lord ARDEN, Mid the Hon. CHARLES YORKE, were sworn of lIIS MA. JESTY'S Most Hon. Privy -Council. We yesterday received Paris Papers to. the Igth inst. They contain no sort of intelligence, ancl•the only interesting articles which are.to by found in than are the' congratulatory 'apeeohes de- 7 LONDON, FE,BRVARY 23, iBol.,