The Sun. — London, England, 1847-01-22 00:00:00

recel;of ed the seat; n t esrrl: l idst an Igo ; hted N t o presents ill be P ut 'al co Le 22d :t sb3l",los's ns fa of the 66' 0- , ,w of b' t terns+ il l to aD nl9 in o nt W illy, fore, of . jot Act r-e IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Jan. 21. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the:Wool - l ack at Earl PO Five o'Clock. REPLY TO THE ADDRESS. Addres i s l , th e TanEdSCUE nresented her Majesty's reply to of t h e a 0 ., ., . moved 'that it be entered on the journals GaLord BROUGHAM put a question to her Majesty's ~,",rnment as to the relations between this country .741 Mexico, in reference to the recent letters of marque 'aid to be issued by that Government. th e he Marquis of LANSDOWNE d ec li ne d t o a nswer question at pre.ent „„The Marquis of' W . e vESTMEATH explained certain ints weree speech which he math. wit the Address, P*bleb misunderstood. He considered that the re )llnsibiliLY of the awful state of things which existed in 'louse reland ought to be e qu a lly sh are d on both sides of the , :action G RE y, i n re ply TRANSPORTATION. b 110 to to Lord Lyttelton, had no o lay certain documents on the table of the Souse relative to the subject of an improved mode of transportation. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Jan. 21 . The SPEAKER took the Chair at F.ur o'Cluck. RAILWAY AND OTHER PRIVATE BILLS. 4 number of R a il wa y an d other Private Bills were ;.. tutro dueed, and read a first time. REPEAL OF THE UNION. k a l ar• CALLAGHAN pr e sented a petition from the for and Corpo ra tion of the city of Cork, preying Britain a rep ea l o f t h e l eg i s l a ti ve un ion b e tween Great 'untain and Ireland, and thereby enable Ireland to get 1311 ,,t of her di s t resse d an d d egra d e d s ituation. SUGAR AND MOLASSES FOR BREWERIES AND DISTILLERIES. L .Sir Row ARD DOUGLAS presented a petition from , iverpool in favour of the use of sugar and molasses in breweries and distilleries. TEN HOURS' BILL. Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from Todmorden , 111 , favour of the Ten Hours' Bill ; also a petition from the borough of Finsbury, praying for an inquiry into the Circumstances which had led to the dethronement of the Raja of Sattara. CHELSEA PENSIONERS. Captain LAYARD presented several petitions from Newcastle-upon-Tyne and other places in favour of a reduction of the duty performed by the Chelsea pen sioners. TEN HOURS' BILL. Mr. S. CRAWF9RD et presented in favour of the Ten Hours' . a petition from thir teen medical practitioners ill a ndcaracterising the present system att the painful Bill, cause of much misery and suffering. RATES REFORM ACT. Mr. DUNCOMBE hegavleenvneottioceurtihogatinaßill for the would, on for Thursday next, move abolitio n of the rate-paying c 3 lau N s i e s s i ir l i A t i h E e N ßeform Act. u CORPORAL 1 Dr. BOWRING said that he questions to the would to-morrow take the o p portun i t y of putting so Secretary a t War, respecting tlto the mode ode of corporal Punishment administered at Hon MEXICO AND THE UNITED STATES. o T t AT p E n S t . two Mr. ROEBUCK said that h questions to the Secretary fore w Foreign Affairs, hemaandde )3 e would not be able to do so n a short preface, might be the better ab i l n e to understand thataederstand the usethem.—(lLear, hear.) I t was sa id t h a t a n agentfrom England, the Government where of M ex i co h a d esta bli s h e d an offi .e in ... b e gave to iuc h p e rsons as were desirous letters letters letters of of Ma rque against the United States, and also na turalization as Mexicans, to protect such per -3 who s h ou ld b e f oun d fi g hting " under those letters. a tte ty r j s. These t wo quest i ons were — f i rst , w h et her or not notice had been taken of this Office on the appear ance of such au agent by her Majesty's . Ministry o r th e G overnment o f t h e U n it e d States, and Whether the Government of the United States had ent nmunicated with the Ministry of this country,. and what answer had been returned to that communication? V i e next question was of a more complicated nature. sx:apietersdons were found, having those acts of naturaliz%- wa n fi , . -r, ~ guting under the letters of marque, by ton ,e States, there was a determination on ~., Part el the United States to hang those persons, h nut h e their acts of naturalization ; and t eretore , 8 r. Roebuck) wanted to know if any precaution uad been taken by her Majesty's Government to prevent h au , e h, a disaster—for he could cal it no less— to any —"tish subject,and, 'f so, what l correspondence had taker, piacc? i firtord PALMERSTON said that, with regard to the , st question, her Majesty's Government had no know led ti ge of the facts to which the Hon. and Learned Gen .,etna. , n ha k d nb l yo u w s t t lhe e ed all e d the attention of the House. They authorised th at marque and acts knowledge Mexican that Government such an a g t e o n t i s s h u a e d l e tbeenletters .. at an advertisement had been tendered to the Times of naturalization. He was aware itee_wspaper, and he believed it had been refused. A d to iter had been also sent by a Mr. Marr, who wanted To make known that there was a shop opened . on sh wer ' hill, in which might be obtained information th e () ! ln g that the Mexican Government had authorised pf t i b l uing of those letters of marque. He (the writer Tower- e letter) did not know whether the person on tohill was authorised by the Mexican Government pe :ssue those letters, in fact he did not know that any t a kr ia was authorised to do so. A correspondence had ,_, a place between the United States' Government f 7 ro her 4k veg place Majesty's Government, and the Minister of the .", in country had alluded to something of this sort ; and he expressed a hope that the . British Gov meat would not allow such a proceeding . in the tsent state of affairs between Mexico and the aired . _A —_ . otates.—(Rear, hear.) He assured . the -;-_:-,erican Minister that he was unacquainted With the circumstances to which he had adverted, and , 41 4 _ t, as far as the law of the land furnished, he would qz:, such measures as he might think the occasion re % u cl • no might add, that be thought it right to put . 4 1 8 estlon to the law officers of the Crown whether, if such letters of marque had been issued, what step aill :British Government should take, in order to prevent LuePetre. With respect to the other question, it was_ e L e t. y,true that some time ago notice was issued to the ...1."8.1 States, that any foreigner found on board Mext pshalsirptsoshould be summarily dealt with, and he (Lord expectation)sn had communicated with Mr. Pakenham his 11... that the United States Government would eeieshreedia B -Li BONY RING w applyu.,l.. .. to British subjects the execution of that law. a tt e r ()I tet Channel the I s la Homen Secretary, know t r o y, from the RightHon d . whether the report from whether, a n d .--oratnissi had been received, and Souse. When, it °n would be laid on thetable Sir G. GREY re of the Mak d • p l ied that th ere h a d been no time to e a digs-st of the report soon as that but as could be done it would be laid upon the table. S eot T . H UME wished to ask the Lord-Advocate of _ . at and what measures were intended to be brought in fel ront iv e e to the law of Scotland, in consequence of the re 'on.,‘ endation of previous commissions. ~.:1-s° LORD-ADVOCA.TE replied, that the subject W under consideratin. Mr. m o p SUGAR DTIES. dut FATT moved for U a return of the amount of theeceived on sugar from the sth day of April, to 5 1846, received th day of January, 1847 ; specifying the amount under the different rates of duty.—Agreed to a . 1 The RON. MEMBER also moved for a return of I ga gers that have been stopped for alleged inaccurate betty at the Custom-houses of London and Liverpool, i n eeh sth April, 1846, and sth January, 1847; specify tht the number of packages in each parcel so detained, .s respective dates of stoppage and release, and whe ther colonial or foreign sugar. Also, the amount of money now held in the said Custom-houses as pad( un ser. protest upon disputed claims in regard to these 44„rs---Areed to. ; 'r• RANKES presented a pi tition from Landford, di D orsetshire, against the Poor Removal Bill. OPENING THE PORTS. On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, the House Went into Committee, to consider the propriety of tem porarily suspen di ng t h e l aws re l at i ng to t h e importation Of corn ; Mr. GREENE in the chair. Lo r d JOHN RUSSELL said—Mr. Greene, so favour able a feeling was shown by the House onTuesday 'light to urge adopting the motion I am about to make, that I w ill not trou bl e th e H ouse with anylengthene d detail upon t h e su bj ect. I w ill, h oe ever , s t a t e , as well zt,si am able, what has heretofore been, and what is now toe general prospect of the country with regard to a sup Ply of food, and the reasons why I propose to advise the House to suspend the corn-laws. The same reasons may be urged with equal force for suspending the navigation laws, the two subjects being closely connected together; and immediately after Mr. Speaker resumes the chair it is my intention to propose that the House do resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Rous e to enable me to move the suspension of those laws. With the permission of the Committee, I will now proceed to state what were the results of the last harvest. Upon the termination of' the harvest state ments were made that the crop,.:vith regard to corn, would be considerably below the average, while the produce in bar ley and oats in parts of England was very d e fi c i ent. b g kb ut the greatest calamity with w hich we h ave b een visit e d was the failure of the potato crop, which has IP l P e rt most considerable in extent in Scotland. 1P has been stated to have extended to three fourths of the whole crop, but the exact amount ca nnot be correct l y ascerta i ne d, yet I have no doubt in saying ) ,Ying that i t h as exten d e d to con siderably more tha n "Ilf of th e whole produce of that country . Of course, has this great and gen e r a l failure of the potato crop ha da material influence upon the prices of food. It was ;impossible not t o expect that the pr i ces o f corn required by consumpti on i n I reland would be mater i a lly aff e cted h l l this failur e of the potato crop. But, on the other and, th ere was, in the course of last year, a very large i r o Portation o f f ore i gn corn, and of corn an d fl our r°ll l the British dominions. The amount alto gether is so imp or t e d appears, by a return which w i ll 1/ ' 3r tlY be in t h e possession of Honourable Mom uer3, to amount to the large quantity of 4,800,000 cilarters. This is a v er y l arge supply, but it did not f or some time come into consumption, notwithstand i , n , i g the re d action of the duty to 4, on the passing of '' a vont-law. It was for this reason that there tva s not a very considerable rite in price.e• There was not a general apprehension that there would be insufficiency of food. With respect to this country, the prices in October and in the course of November did not show any very considerable apprehension with regard to the increase of the price of food, as, the prices of corn in the first week of October lte:t year was 545., in the second week 555. 10, 1 1, is the third 595, 103., and in the fourth ; iicst w,.ek in N , )veinber the price was 61s. 3d., in the third 595. Bd., and in the fourth 595. This shows rather a decline than an increase of prices from the middle of October to the end of November; but, Sir, from that time there has been a very censiderable rise in prices-a rise of prices very considerable indeed, and of alarming character, when the nature of the calamity is considered, coming, as it did, immediately at the time of the har vest.-(Hear.) The trice of wheat in the month of Auguee, I think, was 475.; on the Ist of September it was 495.; but the price has risen in the course of the present month-in the first week in January to 648.4 d.; in the second week to 66a. 103., and the week's average, to the 16th of the pros , nt month, was 70s. 3d. The returns show that for some years past there has been a great increase in the price of barley. In Janu ary, 1842, the price of barley was 295. 7d., in 1843, 265. 5d., in the first week of 1844, 325. 7d., 1845, 345. 2d., 1846. 31s. Ild ; in the first week of 1847, 445. 3d., second week, 465. 5d., third a eek, 50s. This . 50s. did not repressnt the true price at the present time. Sir, I have said that this rise in the price has been in a great degree unexpected by those who are engaged iu the trade. I will draw attention also to the state of the grain market in France. I hold in my hand the report of the Minister of Agricultural Commerce in France. In last year there was a restriction on the supply in the grain of that country ; nor was it in these countries alone that the deficiency in the supply of grain was experienced, to which he would immediately refer. I have mentioned that in various parts of Scotland and Ireland there had been, as was well known, a great fail ure of the potato crop, which has given rise to that great distress of which we have heard so much, and which we all so deeply deplore. lam speaking now of the effect which this great failure has produced upon the general supply of food, and the want which it has caused of an additional supply of corn and other grain in the country. Various statements have been made as to the actual amount of the loss occasioned by the failure of the potato crop. In money value, however, I think that the general average estimate is not less than twelve millions sterling. I do not hesitate to say that a less sum than from four to five millions would be required for the purchase of food, of one description or another, to supply the de ficiency. I have already stated, that during the past year we have had a supply of 4,800,000 quarters of corn from foreign c untries ; hut, with reference to the supply that we may have to obtain during the remainder of the year, and before the next harvest, it is to be considered that there are but very few parts of the world from whence that supply can come, There has been a great deficiency in the harvest in France, Germany, and a great part of the west of Eu rope. Measures have been taken in most of those courts tries to supply that deficiency by the admission of corn free of duty. A law has lately been passed iu France by which the importation 'of wheat is allowed free of duty, and also allowing all ships of foreign nations to enter the ports of France. Similar measures have been passed in other countries, and in others the exportation of corn has been prohibited. The stock on hand in this country was very low, and it was naturally expected that prices would be high. There are two quarters from which a quantity of corn may be expected to this country ; one of those is Odessa: A large supply has already been sent to France from that port, in conse quence of the importation having been so greatly encouraged. I cannot speak accurately of the quantity which has been imported, but at least 700,000 quarters have been imported, and there is no doubt that a further supply will be sent in the spring, and made available to meet the deficiency of this and other countries. There has been a pretty fair average crop in America of all sorts of corn. The harvests of wheat have been abundant, and the quantity of Indian corn grown is, perhaps, the largest ever known ; but, at the same time, we required a very great part of that supply to be sent to this country. However, ships have been sent from Liverpool and other places over there with the intention of bring ing to this country that supply of Indian and other sorts of corn. Now, it appeared to me that such being the state of the supply to this country, and such being the deficiency, it had been found that :we ought to remove every impediment which was in the way of a supply to this country from foreign ones. It appeared at first that the duty of 4s. per quarter was not considered very large and the importation of last year shows that it did , not prevent cote iderable importations of corn ; but there are circumstances and cases in :which that duty might, to a certain extent, limit the supply , brought to this country. For instance, it was for some time a very nice balance between the prices of corn in , this country and France. For a short time, English wheat was sent from the eastern counties of this country to France, but that exportation lasted a very abort time, as the prices rose, and the balance was the other way. ; When p. ices rose in France corn in bond here rose_to within ls. of 0 - e price, so that the 4s. duty would mate rially alter the destination of many cargoes. For instance, supposing the price at London to be 625., andl,*e price at Havre to be 605., the price at . Alevre would make it better worth the importer's whil"6 4 lB - carry it there than to bring it to London wit'a a duty ;c oLis. Supposing that the same circumstances. *Mired inFrance, and a similar duty existed, it wewlste hardly -prevent any great quantity from being brdught 'to this country, but at present the restriction imposed by the 4s. duty causes a considerable difference in the quantities brought over into this country. It is hardly in my power to say what quantity may possibly come into this country through the suspension of the present duty, but, whatever the quantity may be, if it adds to the stock of food for the consumption, it is worth our while to legislate for it. Sir, in order to afford every facility for the in troduction of foreign grain, we propose that in regard to corn the duty at present levied shall be suspended till the Ist of September in the present year. That is the proposition of her Majesty's Government. We shall ' leave to Parliament afterwards to consider whether it is expedient to continue the suspension, or to revert to the law which is at present in operation. Ido not think that any party in this House should oppose the proposi tion we have made.-(Hear, hear.) In regard to the advocates of the corn-laws, it has never been contended by them it was not admissible to suspend the principle when great emergencies arose. In 1756, in 1766, in 1790, in 1791, and in 1800, these laws were suspended, and yet the Governments of those times were advocates of protective principles. With regard to those who are opposed to restriction, and who have argued that in February, 1849, the duty shall be reduced to ls., they can have no difficulty in relation to this proposed suspension, because they cannot hold that that which they consider a bad law, even in times of good harvests and abundance, should be a good law now, when there is a great pressure, and a lamentable deficiency of food.-(Hear, hear.) Sir, I now pass to another subject intimately connected with the present question-I mean the navigation laws. With respect to those laws considerable difficulty has been found in procuring vessels for the purpose of importing grain into this country, arising from the high rate of freights in the United States of America. This difficulty has been enhanced by the demands of the Ame rican Governmentfor vessels to transport troops and muni tions of war to the coast of America, considering the num ber of vessels that is necessary to supply carges of corn sufficient to meet the demands of this country for provi sion. The rate of freights has been greatly raised. What is the ordinary rate of freight compared with what it is new The ordinary rate of freights at Datozic is 10s. per quarter; at present the charge is from 16s. 6d. to 17s. The ordinary rate at Odessa is Bs. ; it is at present 13s. In the United States of Ann rice the ordi nary rate is 55.; at the present time it is from 12s. 6d. to 13s. From the Baltic the freight is 3s. 9d. to 4s. 6d. There are some instances of freight still more remark able and still more affecting the supply of corn to Ire land from foreign countries. I shall quote one instance ; the freight of a quarter of wheat from Lon don to Cork varies generally from Is. to Is. 2d per quarter, at the present moment it averaged from 3s. to 3s. 6d., and there is considerable difficulty in finding vessels for the purpose of exportation. By a lower rate of freightage we shall be able to employ some more of our vessels, from whence we antieip!ito nau(.ll good to result.-(Hear, hear.) When we reflect upon these facts, and- con:ider the whole of the circumstances, I am sure that the House will join with me in thinking that these restrictions should not exist. I shall, there fore, propose a suspension of these laws. With respect to the present state of the law, it is not my inten tion to say what alterations, if any, ought to be introduced ; for I think that all parties will consider that this is an occasion when such restric tions ought me to exist.-(Bear, hear.) Ido not mean to enter into any unnecessary araument, or to pro voke any hostility by any observations of mine, and I will therefore conclude by moving that the Chairman - propose the necessary resolution, which will enable me to propose a suspension of tile corn and navigation laws. Mr. BANKES said he felt no difficulty in rising to second the resolution. The Noble Lord had stated, that upon this suspension of the corn-laws he anticipated no discussion. He was not wrong in his anticipitation, but itpn passing ts s w ir a xg s p of this t i s o me p he ii i a hs opinion nr ee "o t t h t h a se t hr ow u t i l h s de e hPa N er l o b ad l me e rei nv L et d o w r f d ) ru ol nc d o ul d the have been called together at an earlier period.- (Hear, hear.) hu t it t e The Prime Minister cou ld not awhaarvee th in the course of his duty ' thought Laneegh a together-itislatu e r o e ursewoodh might, been incon ven i en t to indeed, b e e expedienttrue c aalthat eoi called passhh thatte, the such a measure, it was in his power to the Irish to the l proposition, aemberstisin-übu, orany Members-but English repre sentat i ves w bße o ue t t t n l d hpe h r a ot v vh e e, d, at t thought once t tth he c em h eNewrofabusl t l e ly consented on the b e h a lf o f Ireland other, which woula h ave the benefit o f I re l an d. Irth o e r r d . a had lass earl e ie x r cu p se eri t i r not calling Parliament together for an alteration in the le en told that there was plenty 'ga r " laws. They had different parts of the world, tido grain to be found in difficulty that was to be met witheens' consequently the only means of conveyance, and that diffiwcausl a want of the difficulty could only be obviated by the sus peusion of the navigation Ministry might have obviated that inhh laws. Th e calling Parlinent together shortly afte e rt v h e e ni p i 7 ga bY w lion last year; and, as he had before obser ve d, if r it had been inconvenient for the Irish Members to att en d, the English Members were ready, on the cart o . f Ireland, to atte id for the .sanction of the sus ,.l the reavieation - laws. His information duff-red from that of the Noble Lord with respect to the last harvest. lie believed that there was more than an THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY MORNING, JANUARY 22, 1847. i a t ver m a i g g e h t c" lo e of d e e fi o e r i n e n i t n h n e q w u e a s i t i t o y f , E b n u g t l a n h d e , although d that there was more than an average quantity, and indeed sufficient to supply the deficiency of the potato crop. With respect to the rise in price, whether in formation were obtained through the contiguity of the southern countries to the coast of France, it was well known by the farmers in those countries that the. harvest in France was likely to prove very deficient; that a dearth in .hat country was likely to Iccur, and that there would consequently be a rise in price. It was, therefore, anticipated that this rise would take place ; notwithstanding that, however, the farmers had con• tinued to send their corn to market, and they did not hesitate to do this, although they had reason to ex pect a greater return for their grain.—(Laughter.) A view had been taken by the friends of protection, that at a period when the want of corn would be felt in this country, the prices of corn in other nations would be guided by the prices in the English markets. Such appeared to be the case now, and it was: to other toad more distant countries that they looked to for the supply which was now required. He had the sincere satisfaction of expressing on the present occasion a full, a free, and entire concurrence in the proposition of the Noble Lord. He shared with him in the apprehension that no great benefit would result from the suspension of the duty, but if there was the smallest benefit to be derived, he agreed with the Noble Lord in saying that the) would be to blame if they withheld the supply of corn for one moment. He thought the time which the Noble Lord had determiued on tor the remission of the duty was rather lengthened, but they must, of course, believe that her Ma jesty's Ministers had exercised a sound discretion. All he had to say was that for his part—and he believed he spoke the sentiments of others on that side of the House—that they did not anticipate any great good from this concession. It had been said by the Honourable and Learned Member for Bath, that the Rip,ht Hon. Member for Tamworth was entitled to the greatest praise with reference to the famine in Ireland. All he had to observe with reference to that observation of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was, that when the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth had proposed any thing for the relief of the famine in Ireland, they, on that side of the House had not opposed it. One of the measures in regard to which the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth had met oppo sition from them was the Coercion Bill. He did not indeed know whether his Hon. and Learned Friend considered that the passing of the Coercion Bill would relieve the famine in Ireland, but he would beg leave to remind the Hon. and Learned Member, and indeed all Members in the House, that as regarded the famine in Ireland, the Right Hon. Member of Tamworth had met with no - opposition whatever to any measures that pro mised relief to that unfortunate country, for the agricul tural Members had over and over again expressed their desire to consent to all suspension of the duty on corn, but their overtures were rejected by the Right Hon. Member. Ireland had, therefore, nothing to blame any agricultural Members for, and the committee might rely upon it those Members would never stand in the way of any measure that was calculated in the slightest degree to benefit Ireland. r the Right lion the Chancellor of the Exchequer said November, but he would uive him the benefit of the 31 days, and he would ask, ilL,w many lives had bo , n lost in the interval ? They did not complain of what the Government meant to do, but they did complain that they did not that which they ought to do. 'They oug ht to copy t h e examp l e o f an ill ustr i ous individual whom they were very fond of copying, he meant the King of the French. He had bought corn to distribute throughout the country, but the Ministry of this bountry had bought it only to place it in their depots. lie would just mention the lite led by an Irish gentleman at this period In the morning the house was surrounded by a number of persons, perhaps fourteen or fift een , who presented their tin pans at the dour, and they received the broken meats that could be spared them. Another batch came at dinner time, and soup was served out to them. Such were the miseries which ' prevailed in the country, and he hoped that means would soon be taken to remedy them. The state of the country demanded their utmost exer tions in order to remove every obstacle to the introduc tion of food. The 4s. duty was one obstacle, and he hoped that with regard to that, and all other im pediments, there would be a perfect unanimity and co-operation between them, in order, as quickly as possible, to relieve the wants of a suffering country. Mr. P. SCROPE would readily give his support to the proposal, but looking at the strong precautionary measures that had generally been adopted in many parts of Ireland, it was somewhat surprising that so much destitution and so many deaths had occurred in that country.—(Hear, hear.) Skibbereen exhibited a frightful picture of disease and suffering, while in many less ex tensive places they heard of people dying by fives and tens of thousands, and yet all this had occurred in the face of the large precautionary measures which were said to have been taken by the Government. — (Hear.) With such precautionary measures before them, he confessed he thought the prediction of the Hon. Gentleman who had just resumed his seat still more strange.—(Hear.) He entertained strong feelings upon the subject. With a country like this, presided over by a Government possessing such enormous power —with such immense resources at its disposal— considering the minuteness of the territory over which they presided, and the facilities they had of communi - eating from one place to another, he could not under stand how, after these precautionary measures had been fully brought into operation, it could be at all reasonable to expect, or how any person could look forward to a large number of individuals dying of famine in any part of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He regretted that the agencies established by the Government in Ireland had tailed in many instances, on account of the imperfect organization which the Govern ment had adopted for the purpose of dispensing relief to the people. The Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) had stated that the Government had been unable to obtain sufficient information to enable them to dispense relitf in the proper districts, and in proper quantifies, but he apprehended if they had acted more in unison with the local authorities, that a more equitable and desirable dispensation could have been made, and much of the suffering and death that had taken place ob viated. lie called upon the Government to redeem the pledge they had made—that their first duty was to see that the people did not di.: from starva tion. By fulfilling their pledge, the anticipation- of the Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer that they might apprehend more deaths from starvation would not be realked. Mr. PHILIPS—He would make peace with the Hon. Gentlemen at the other side of the House, if they would send 100,0001. worth of corn to the country. Mr. BRIGHT wished to Ithow whether these laws were made to have reference to vessels laden with corn, because he understood that as far as the United States were concerned the insurances would be affected. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Corn might be imported in vessels for home use free of duty. Mr. BRIGHT—The Right Hon. Gentleman did not seem to understand him (Mr. Bright). It was not a question of duty. It was whether or not certain vessels would be admitted into the ports. For instance, would a vessel from Rutland or the United States be admitted into the Mersey, and be allowed to discharge her cargo there. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER—She would be allowed to discharge. Mr. ROEBUCK.—WouId vessels laden with cotton and corn be admitted into the ports? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. — A ship would be admitted to discharge her cargo only with respect to corn. Mr. BRIGHT was quite satisfied that unless the Ins pension were to be carried out to its full extent, the measure would be of comparatively little service. It is the opinion of those who are connected with the shipping interest, that so far as the United States at least are concerned, that the charge wou!d be next to useless. When he saw them sending large sums every week from the imperial Treasury and that the Archbishop was directed to offer up prayers for the aversion of famine, it did seem unwise to stop short in the matter, and not carry out the measure to the utmost extent. tracts from various letters to show that the Government had left nothing undone to provide food for the Itish people by the establishment of soup-kitchens and the opening of stores. Eighty •five tons of wheat had been distributed in Skibbereen in a very short time. He believed that the same statement might be made in reference to other pieces ; and when the statement of the Government was laid before the House they would find that the Noble Lord was quite inaccurate in the statements, and that food was given to the poor to a considerable extent in the very district to which allusion had oeen made.--(Hear, hear.) He hoped the landlords of Ireland would now exert themselves in their own localities without depending upon the exertions of Government at the present most momentous crisis, for it was impossible for Government to meet efficiently all the distress which unfortunately prevailed in that country. They were ready to give liberal support and assistance towards meeting the present disastrous circumstances of the country; but he must repeat again that the whole onus should not be thrown upon them. That it would be possible to preserve the whole population of Ireland from starvation, he was sorry to say that he was not very sanguine. But by due exertion on the part of the landlords they might in a great measure avert future distress, as well as that which existed at present in Ireland. Mr. HUME must say that a great deal of time htd been wasted by not having produced these papers at first—he must say that there was great neglect in their not having produced them before. Ile must also say that he had seldom been more disap pointed by what had taken place, but he hoped that they were to have the trade thrown open. The country expected this from the Noble Lord, and that he would not permit the past state of things to continue, and no longer adhere to that absurd system of opening the trade when the ports of Europe were closed against then. He would remind the Noble Lord that, if he refused to maintain those navigation laws, he would immediately deprive the colonies, unless he at the same time gave them free trade, of the only protection which they enjoyed. An American now enjoyed the advantage of one dollar per load, so that it was better for a West Indian colonist to buy for four dollars in New York than three at Mon treal. So that, unless they took off the duty on ships, they could never carry out the principle of free trade, and it would be a high injustice to the colonists, unless they allowed them to trade freely with all the world, unless they gave them free trade. If the Noble Lord was wise he would take off the duty from timber and all the other articles, on the commerce in which restrictions were laid. If the Noble Lord would grant him a Committee he would engage to prove that this was a national benefit. If the Noble Lord would refer to the evidence taken before the Committee in 1840, and would look at Mr. John Young's evidence, he would find that that gentleman there showed what a disadvantage it was to impose a duty on timber. He proved that at Rio Janeiro there were 150 ships, and that out of those 100 were British vessels overloaded with the expense at which they had been built, and yet struggling to obtain a share of the trade, in order that they might remunerate their owners. He, therefore, came to the conclusion, that if the duty on timber had not existed the whole of the carrying business of that port would have fallen into the hands of British subjects. It; again, in the evidence taken in 1840, the Noble Lord refers to Mr. Mitchell's testimony, he would find that that gentleman stated himself to be a shipowner, an importer of timber, and a builder of ships ; but so great were the Impediments thrown in his way that he had to pay 40 to 50 per cent. for the timber imported into this country, and for that which he could get elsewhere. He had consequently built a num ber of ships in Sweden. The ships were British ships although they bore Swedish names, and traded to British ports, were owned by British subjects, and commanded by British captains. The fact was, that Mr. Mitchell paid only eight pounds a ton abroad for his timber, whereas in England he had to pay twelve pounds. He trusted, therefore, that the Noble Lord would take this subject into consideration, for if he did, and relieved the trade of the duty which was now imposed upon it, he (Mr. Hume) felt assured that Eng land weuld become the manufactory of ships for all the world, as it was for other articles, and thus the principles of free trade would be carried out in the comprehensive manner which they deserved, and which would prove a lasting benefit to the country. If they had this, they should have no longer to hear the com plaints of famine, of which, during the present week, so much had been said in that House. They had only to look at the state of the colonies to see the injurious operation of the navigation laws. He had no hesitation in saying, that had these laws been repealed five months ago, they would have had very large supplies of food. These were the grounds on which he considered the Government had not proved themselves equal to the emergency. In order to effect a proper settlement of all these difficulties, they ought to have gone to the root of the evil at once. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Sir, the Hon. Gentleman expresses himself dissatisfied with the policy of the Government. In the explanation of that policy which I have made I stated my desire that, in the present circumstances of the country and the dearth of provisions, the measures which her Ma jesty's Government were desirous of undertaking to relieve the evil should be such as would command, if possible, the general support of the House. — (Hear , hear.) But the Hon. Gentleman objects to the course we have taken, because we are not prepared to introduce three separate measures of legislation. The first is, the total and unconditional repeal of the corn-lea's. He finds fault with us because we are not prepared to rescind the arrangement of last year—a course which, if undertaken by the Government, would, no doubt, excite the opposition of the Noble Lord oppo site (Lord G. Bentinck), and we should have to fight the battle of last year over again. The Hon. Gentleman, in the second place, complains that we do not propose the entire abrogation of the navigation laws—a course which if taken by us would most likely induce the oppo sition of the Hon. Member for the University of Ox ford (Sir it. H. Inglis). —(Hear, hear.) And then be states that these would be of no use unless they were accompanied by a repeal of the timber duties.—(Hear.) Our ships, he tells us, are at present, compared with foreign vessels, placed at a disadvantage of 50 per cent., and that the timber duties should be repealed in order to enable them to compete freely with other nations in commercial transactions. It may be right policy to repeal these duties, but to do so the Honourable Gentleman must be prepared for a considerable reduction of revenue, and the substitution of another tax in order to meet the deficiency. In undertaking measures of relief to meet the present emergency, therefore, I am not prepared to propose three great measures, every one of which would, no doubt, meet with violent opposition from Honourable Members in this House.—(Loud cheers.) Colonel CONNOLLY was sorry to find the Chancellor of the Exchequer labouring under the impression to which he had given utterance with respect to Ireland. A great portion of the county he represented was in a most awful state of destitution. Language could not describe it. He himself sent 3,0001. to Liverpool, to purchase food for Donegal, and though he did not wish to sa y anything derogatory to the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, he was bound to say that the information he received was strangely at variance with the facts. He could not describe the destitution which prevailed from the bay of Donegal to Derry, and it was absurd to talk of relieving it by the ordinary operations of trade. There were neither mills nor factories, nor great traders nor small traders, throughout the whole extent of the country, and the other night he adduced that as a proof of the ignorance of the Commissary -General. The intensity of the destitution was such that the seller could obtain any prices he pleased for pro visions, and, under such circumstances, to talk of the ordinary operations of trade was absurd. Knowing these facts, and seeing with hi s own eyes t h e horrible wretchedness which prevailed, he could not con sider himself as acting justly by his constituents if he did not state them to the House. lie hoped the House would do him the honour of be lieving him, for he only stated that to which he was a witness. The principle of providence was carried so far, that numbers of the people would starve before they were permitted to enjoy the provisions which the Government had stored up.—(Hear, hear.) He could not help praising the foresight of the Government, but he did consider that this principle might be carried too far. He said these things with very great pain, for he would not by any means desire to embarrass the Government. But these things were facts these were truths ; and it would be cul pable in him to go forth from that House without stating them, particularly after hearing the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He gave the Government credit for the best intentions, but , ' their officers had been always in the habit of repre senting that the destitution was not really so extensive as it was represented to be. Why, it had increased to an amazing degree since it first began. The people had now to pa) three times the price which they had before. Ile would beg leave to refer the House to the statement of Mr. Foster, a Quaker, who resided in Norwich, for the truth of his allegation. He had instituted the most generous system of relief that had been devised. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was at a loss to know to what portion of his speech -the lion. and Gallant Member had referred. He had stated in his speech that the Government had established a num ber of depots, and that their exertions had been greater than was generally supposed to have been taken. 4 (Colonel CONNOLLY said it was quite true that the depots had been established, but no distribution of food had taken place up to this very date. There was a depot in Sligo, upon his own estate at Killabegs, but not a morsel of corn had found its way into the mouths of the people. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could . only repeat what he had said before—that the depot at ;Sligo had been open since the latter end of the autumn. Colonel CONNOLLY—The depot had been open, it 'was true, but only for the purpose of sending corn to , other depots. Corn was sent traotmhe beforethe depot at Sligo Ito that Donegal; but he repeated what 'not a morsel of it had been consumed by the poor of .Sligo or its neighbourhcod. Mr. GRA.TTAN—If the Chancellorofhtehe(CEoxlcohnee-1 Aver were right in his assertion, hen sConnolly) wou ld have a right of action agaeienkst thattlte . H onoura ble Member, for it was only last y week ;he was induced to subscribe a sum of money `for the relief of the distress, in consequence of his being informed t hat no corn had been issued from the c h.pot at Sligo. The Chancellor_ of the Exchequer see med to have tak en considerable pains in quoting from a large number of documents, which seemed to him ought to have fallen to the province of the Right lion. the Secretary of State for the Home Department, or at least notice should have been given to the House that such a course was about to be adopted. ' They were told that 3,700,000 quarters of wheat had I;,been brought into England up to the 31st December ; Sir H. W. BARRON regretted that the present mea sure had not been brought forward before. In many parts of Ireland the price of wheat was 82s. per quarter, Bs. or 9s. higher than even those quoted by the Noble Lord himself, and bearing this fact in mind the committee would have some idea of the destitution of the people of Ireland, when he told them, that with perhaps a family of five, six, or seven children the highest wages a la bourer could earn was 10d. per day. Why, within his own knowledge, in his own vicinity, not only were there hundreds but thousands of unfortunate people living upon one scanty meal, and yet labouring upwards of 12 hours per day. They could not afford any more either for themselves or any one of their families. This was a fact which he stated upon his own authority without the slightest hesitation. Ile was chairman of two relief committees in that district, and had the means of knowing the dreadful destitution which existed in every part of that neighbourhood. Par liament had no idea of the terrible destitution that pervaded Ireland, while, from what he read in the public prints, the people of England appeared yet unconvinced of the dreadful condition in which the unfortunate millions of Ireland were living. On Thursday last, in the city of Waterford no less than 107 applicants were refused ad mission into the union workhouse solely on account of the want of sufficient room to locate them. The phy sician reported to the board that it would be dangerous to the lives not only of the applicants themselves but of the inmates of the house from the crowded state of the wards if they were admitted. Under these circumstances they were forced to refuse admission to the 107 applicants, but he was glad to say that the board, upon their own responsibility, had since taken another building, capable of accommodating a considerable number more.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") There was not among the gen tlemen who attended the sessions one dissentient voice when the proposition was made for taxing himself for the relief of those poor pet sons who were suffering under the distresses that had been justly and eloquently set forth. He was one of those who had imposed upon himself a taxation of 28s. in the pound on the property of the baronies for the support of the poor for only three months of the year. He attended regu larly at the sessions where he resided, and other places where the country gentlemen were accustomed to assemble, and where these matters were re gulated, and he had not seen one single instance where a landlord had set himself up in opposition to the principle that property was bound to support the poor ; and yet they were told gravely by the press of this country, and that statement was retailed second hand in that House, by some second-hand lawyer — (Laughter)—that they had not performed their duties in reference to the poorer classes of their country, and that thsy were miserably deficient in all the duties which they owed towards those who were entitled to relief from the more affluent portions of the community. He asserted it without fear of contradiction, that these was not in the whole world a class who had come more liberally forward towards the support of the poor, or had acted more magnanimously towards them than the landlords of Ireland on the present occasion. They had done this in the mode that was most accept able, and which clothed the act with proper grace and dignity, for they had done it liberally, and without any distinction of party or sect.—(Hear.) So great was the calamity that impended over his unfortunate country, yet he could not help thinking that it might yet be of considerable advantage to that country, and rescue it from many of the horrors that were inherent in the organization of the country, and the vitiated state of its political condition, and he trusted that speedily it would be delivered from the horrors that now caste gloom over it Mr. GOWLBURN would not follow the Honourable Baronet throughout the details of his address, because he had recently arrived from a place where the greatest distress prevailed, and consequently he was well able to depict the nature of the sufferings of the people to the House. It was perfectly natural for a gentleman so situated, to press, iu warm language, upon the House the dreadful nature of the calamity which had visited his country, and it was equally natural that he should feel irritated at statements which, in his opinion,_ reflected upon the c h ara cter of his countrymen, and that he should take the earliest opportunity of contradicting them. But the Honourable Baronet would not suppose that he was in the least degree indifferent to the sufferings of that country it' he (Mr. Goulbourn) expressed his opinion that that was not the occasion on which he should have taken an opportunity of entering into such a discussion.—(Hear) They all knew and felt for the distress existing in Ireland, and considered that it was the duty of England to come forward and to relieve the distresses of the Irish people. He had but a single observation to offer to the House. He entirely concurred in the mAheeemairnseuerraisecrhaitwhich the Noble Lord had proposed, and be thought al-o that it was most essential that that concur rence should be universal, and that that concurrence should carry with it to the people a conviction of the interest which England felt in the welfare of Ire land. He would not, however, avail himself of the opportunity to advert to the past proceedings of that House with respect to this subject, except to state that the adoption of such a step at an earlier period question u o he u ms l th d i have o.int thwea g ys o farn hn e audt t to to consider oh prepareds v i e d alleviatedetru mwas—were e t_ t ( h H e etahre. y) difficulties or not sb oe, to hg ea lvpe deriveehxi expressing re s s entirean i g v aahsnistitg regret,te, an f r d o from a tthecouldth e m s e du a ou s l piutk,rti likely ye n ! T do o in i g t n u ms c uo h opsftp a course, ldtiheeess fo re foreign an countriesantecedent to which e h r i i e o h d w w o e u Id l o h k a e v d e been most advantageous ; as at the present time the wasto obtain e e s n si g o a n g o e w h b a y t e v,er other o g iwb f r or a s i s f purchasers wh r o ah w le ere competing for its possession • yet it sur plus remained through the suspension of the duties, as the continuance of the duty might divert those sup plies from our shores to oth f er countries. With re ;ithair,dargtuo m e t t l , i t e a p p suspensioneven t had suspended her navigatio laws the f navigation a t v h i e g ati o n purpose la w o s t with greater force, as France t s s such eei gettingph ships saa were o ee r r ne advantage into course. r Ca informed n or c n e ; and, therefore, they had not would have had if w F af i rt t r u h a m nc th t e had ships adopted s for po as t instance, t h h e a y t would be carried to France when the American rt the navigation laws of France had been suspended He thought that in order to keep themselve s on an equal touting with foreign countries, the suspension of the navigation laws during the urgent period of distress was a measure quite necessary, and from which no one could dissent, and for his own part he did assent to it most freely. At the same time he was sure that the Noble Lord and the House would not suppose him about to throw obstacles in the course about to be pursaed if he took the present opportunity of preserving entirely to himself the question of any further suspension of the navigation laws, or of prohibiting any interference with them hereafter, either in the matter of corn or in respect of any other commodity. He must should he be precluded from conai• cons as of i t h e e r :e d i t ; ( a ) i b g e a p t ii r o e i l l u a d w e s d , h t r y o m t h e a v d u h t e e r i h n e g a t h o u the give that night; nor ustortict ben e take place on the present them, by w hat might dering any point that m i g ht arise with regard to With respect to these laws, he they only further then about press his hope that the measures occasion.l He thought it right tohpaudt u in ul thi f s ur r t e;s i e ur rv t a u ti e o x n: famine in this country, and that those w .. and dis tress take might be the means of alla h t u i uw cry su o t_ f fem.. under the greatest depths of privation allaying e th n e dif ferent interests in this country had given up those would see, iu the readiness with which the points for which they had heretofore contended as most important, without a moment's hesitation on it, an "iiiehee of the strong and liberal feeling of a British Parliament to those of its subjects in any pan, of its em- pire who might be suffering under the severest calamity which could be inflicted on the country. He trusted that the unanimity with which they had ucted on this particular occasion would carry with it a degree of sa tisfaction which would tend to alleviate that misery, to remove which they had acted. Mr. EWART rose, but was for some time inaudible. The conduct of the commercial Minister of France in the suspension of the navigation laws had been worthy of all praise, and yet, altheugh the example had long been before the eyes of the Government, they did not follow it until three or four months after the necessity had occurred. He had been one of those Mem bers who had supported the principles of free trade from the first in that House, and he was cordially pleased to find that the Hon. Member for Dor setshire had voted for a temporary suspension of the navigation laws. As an advocate for a total repeal of commercial restrictions, he preferred that plan to a temporary suspension. He only regretted that her Majesty's Ministers had not come to a resolution for that total repeal ; and he thought the same obser vation might be applied to the navigation laws. Since, however, the Government would not consent to the total repeal, however much he regretted it, he would assent to the temporary measure. There were no old associations to justify the retention cf the navigation laws. They only took their rise in the reign of Henry VII., and were confirmed in the time of Charles 11., and, he believed, simply in consequence of our connection with the Dutch at that time. He repeated that he would much rather if the Ministry had for temporary suspension substituted that temporary suspension of those laws, yet he did not wish to disturb the unanimity of the debate. But he could not help observing that labour in this country could never be sufficiently rewarded until they did away with the restrictions on external commerce. He should vote for the measure before the House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that, however sensible of the force of the position of the Hon. Member who had just sat down, he trusted that the nature of the circumstances which were to be brought under review of the Committee proposed, and which had led to the motion for that Committee, would prevent anything like dissension in the debate. In October last the belief was, that corn had been raised in price from being kept back for speculative purposes. general mirtrehewistanhhwtgwei As soon as the determination of the Government was known not to suspend the corn-laws prices fell, and about the latter end of October large arrivals of grain took place from foreign parts. We were then told, on good authority, by gentlemen intimately acquainted with the corn trade, that there was every probability of large arrivals in a short time. Even at a more recent date it was stated to us that the somber of vessels in America taking in grain as cargoes was very large indeed. He held in his hand a letter from a gentleman in Liverpool, dated the 14th of January, which stated, that according to the last arrivals from the United States there were at New York, loading with grain for Great Britain and Ireland, thirty-seven vessels of 25,000 tons burden. There was loading at the same time at New Orleans 33 vessels of 19,000 tons; and in addition to this, there had cleared out from Liverpool twenty-nine vessels of 17,000 tons, with meecd h atyhp i hs c aatoeh h i ntnoat wouldannldsbeaahalvoesnaiftgdt apprehension iat bthiri ep n eoi enan o ngtcecodc d luo .0 0 nsr u tenr b Idy t ,: America, a c th s h bci eecon w hrnmoo o srte u uerh w r l return to this country with corn. These amounted disap pointedanßt hn e ua a dt tr would l ila y tatnrwg t oi oonet thatu 7 blt deb suppliest evifaotepu supplies petu s eh e pt ac l bpf s roool , would appear, however, that within the last two or three weeks the imports have considerably increased, but this was the time when the spring trade fell off, and when there was a greater demand on the part of the shipowners for freights. The suspension of the naviga tion laws would enable the ships of all nations to enter into the business of importing food for this coun try as soon as the navigation opened. The navigation of Odessa opened in March; the navigation of America opened about the same time; and it was with a view of ensur ing early supplies as soon as the trade is opened that the Government proposed to suspend the navigation laws. It must be remembered that they had received as yet none of the Indian corn of the crop of 1846, and he believed that .he whole of the crop of 1845 had been brought to this country. The crop of 1846 was not ready for exportation till last December, and he be lieved that in a very short time some of it would be on its way to this country. From New Orleans he expected some ships to arrive in a few weeks, but from the northern states he feared that little could be expected till the navigation be open. When this period arrived the measures which were now proposed would greatly accelerate the supplies. He considered that the information which the Government re ceived up to October last was quite sufficient to warrant them in taking such a course. He was very anxious to take that opportunity of stating the course which the Government pursued with regard to sending corn to Ireland--there had been so_ much misappre hension prevailing in the House, and there bud been so many mis-statements made last night on points with respect to which it was so essential that there should be no mistake. He hoped the House would excuse him if he briefly detailed the course pursued on that occasion. It would be remembered that at the close of last session an announcement was made in reply to questions put to the Government, that they should not undertake to interfere with trade in Ireland. This was the answer inva riably given to the queries made on that subjeot. And while he adopted such a course, he did not mean to disapprove of the course which the late Government adopted under different circumstances last yeax. When the question had been put to them fro tn merchants in different parts of the country, this w:as the reply returned, and he continued to believe in the prudence of such a course, as a partial interference by Government would have completely paralysed thie exertions of individuals. Private enterprise afforded as larger supply than any exertion it was possible that a Government cou ld m a k e. Wheni - e ver it was likely that any private 'en tr Pris 43 could not provide a supply of corn, the vei:n - °forent, as far as they were able , established depots the sale of corn, and they had come into the market; on] market; ployed was that they should not allow the G : a nd the only limit they put upon the merchants _ o vernment t 4 + appear as purchasers ;for if they had done s of the, wo uld have been inflicted upon the Pac , m a ej country, for they should remember that distress existed! elsewhere than in Ireland; for if the Government had i a cted so unwisely, they would have ra ised the priori on iur j. of food upon those who were maintain in g. t h e mselves'.. sufficient to feed , 8.000,000 of persona for a period of fou r The amount of corn imported was months and ie t d would bpi- done for this country all that could be expect would attended seriously to underrate the success which had made by half. To say, therefore, that private enterprise had noll their efforts. In all the purchases which had f Russell, why t market price. A person of the name o, Government. had been employed as the agent of the tprices: Government they had always been made atb been n e highest. eigls k e e s ts. at Limerick, had always given the . which had been given in the English mar quantity of corn exported from Ireland The average. had been less than in any preceding years. 3,000,000 . of the three years preceding the last had been tinted 0 00' of quarters. In the last it had only amounted by, 1,700,000 quarters, being less than the precedingm 1,300,000 quarters. The quantity of foreign cornt, t hehowever into Ireland was only 500,000 quarters ; England inadequately, represented the quantity uantities of Eng land of English and foreign corn. Greatt. g n, while the • fine flour had been kept for home consumption, y t of which coarser had been sent to Ireland, the " o a f September he was very considerable. In the beginning stating received a letter from a person at Liverpool,at Liverpool, there were thirty-three vessels waiting rent evil was to receive cargoes for Ireland. One d, g The Govern the deficiency of mill-power in Irelan • for private use, went had left all the mills in Ireland Portsmouth, at sent ia from and had employed mills at Plymouth, in Indian roduce constantly at work, and their p a sent to Ire be Davenport, and at Rotherhithe ; they at had corn-meal and barley-meal bad eblished in the I land. Depots had also been esta blish were nine -.• western districts of Ireland. 1 " the present year il depots established last year. been kept In e of which were '. their number amounted to 26, so m e south. There part of Ireland, and Kinsale, on Mayo, in Galway, were some of them in Sligo, in nrous most northern in Limerick, and in n situated to the east of the Shannon, the supplies food, by the estab lishment With regard to other measures, other places. as some Hon. Gentlemn I wpopulation of Ireland had been en that the poorer . appeared that measures pose, • he thought it tirely neglected, at the proper time, sufficient at least had been taken, l , of food had not been inadequate. to prove that the b supp ) dt true that those depots y of depots and otherou deabsauvrees,tibtediHdonuosteatpopseuapr., But it was uudou t t e d. y - When they had a larger mass of recently been open furnishing of those supplies. Some of those re quired in the furn b . a opened, others had been partially Westmeath, and in Sligo, beau food considerable reserve was o f the autumn, as, for instance, the the Government gave ex depots in GalwaYt They found, in many and other 11 from a journal published d a cases, in proportion that the persons in the locality pectations of relict, their own resources. He depotso Peoplep ee d htioandt supplyhn e e e e oru"r Places' e i no s relied no longer on stated that distress had greatly ionvetrbnement overnment intended - - n d to epo fa ts c . ilit A ate ti t m h e e t he people were willing to depend deiot there, and d by it. The G in increased, held etts in ti e t h o i w s n handw becauseh which , cal culated upon a supply of provisions they werecountry till Christmas, and then . prepared to afford, • when the people of Ireland would have to was earning and here they had sustain themselves with and g by themselves, upon the relief afforded but purchases by dealers, . therefore Govern ment had been particularly establishment of small dealers throughout the country. with f r o e o l d ief n f au r nt _o x m_ i or t uo h wi e In many places, however, they could not succeed in been compelled to open depots to supply the large num ber of men engaged on the relief works with food. Government had been told that they had taken no steps whatever to relieve the aged infirm out Of the workhouse establishing these small dealers , ; or, at all events, that the relief must have been afforded recently, for that within the last few days they 'vere in Ireland, and had heard nothing of it. This cotipl - t however, was unfounded, and it would be found 1 ain ' report that had just been received fro m Irelanrm anda which would shortly be laid before the House, that ample means had been furnished to the re l i e f committees to enable them to supply food to the aged and infirm who could not b e accommodated in the workhouses. It 'you'd ' be seen, too, that the relief commiss • • triat instructed each committee to confine h - t eir suppl:ss to such mode of relief until the pressure became other quarters. One of these rep orts was dttte s d ev n e o r itt i e n r than Dec. 3, while another from Skibbereen, dated Item 21, stated that a large measure of relief had been ebalt out to the aged and infirm poor of that distrct. The Right Hon. Gentleman then went on to read es.- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the measure was founded upon the Bill of 1817, when a set of circumstances existed similar to those which were now experienced ; and he repeated that corn might be imported in any vessel, from any coun try free of duty, and that corn also warehoused in this country might be taken out of bond without paying the duty. Mr. BRIGHT did not know why they should adhere to the old law at all, for when making so great a change it was not worth while, when making this alteration, to be restrained by such usages. Mr. M. PHILLIPS did not recollect the circum stances of 1817, but he felt quite satisfied that unless the suspension of the navigation laws was made to affect all the articles imported, it would be next to use less, and that ships would be boating about for freight just as much as they had been of late He was persuaded that, notwithstanaing the strong ex pressions of feeling made in Ireland against this country, they would do all they could for the relict of the country. He knew the difficulties the Govern • ment had to contend with, because they were not foreseen. Even so late as the first of October last, the prices which ruled gave no indication that a scarcity was likely to occur, At that time in the Midland counties wheat was 18s. the bag of three bushels. He thought that if the Government had interfered earlier great mischief would have ensued, and the freights and prices would have risen much higher than they had done. It was not for him to make any suggestions to the Noble Lord in anticipation of the measures which lie intendtd to bring forward for Ireland. One thing, however, he would observe that in whatever mode or shape it was proposed to afford relief it would be desirable that the largest amount of seed should be sowed that may be required by the wants of the people. Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to observe. in reference to ' the remarks of the Hon. Member for Durham, that the Go vernment, in proposing the suspension of the laws, had the various difficulties he suggested under their consideration. They - liad acted on the precedent of 1817. It would be diffi cult to adopt the course suggested without an evasion of the Navigation laws ; or to make a measure that would enable them to ascertain whether the conditions referred to were ful filled or not. These difficulties induced him to adhere to the precedent of 1817 ; but if any method of obviating the diffi culty were pointed out he would give it his best consideration. Mr. ROEBUCK considered that the navigation laws should be entirely done away ; their great object was to have vessels for the transport of corn, lower the rate of freightage, and that object would be obtained, and they had no right to limit it to corn alone. Mr. T, BARING said that if he understood the meaning of the Member for Bath it was that the navigation laws should be entirely suspended. Now, if that principle were admitted, the American tea cargoes would came into competition with the English. The Noble Lord had shown the difficulties of transporting mixed cargoes; there was perfect truth in what he stated ; but he believed that these measures would be very inoperative, and he would not consent to them save to show the sympathy which he felt for Ireland; and he could assure the Right Hon. Gentleman, if he proposed a general repeal of the navigation laws he would have to submit to a strong re monstrance from the commercial bodies in the country, and to some opposition in that House. Mr. BRIGHT was not quite sure that the Hen. Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Baring) was quite so good an authority upon great political questions, although he was the representative of the largest mercantile house in the world. His productions upon the question of the repeal of the Corn-laws had been proved by experience to be fallacious. Lord GEORGE BENTINCK thought it would require some assurance on the part of the Hon. Member to charge his Hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon with ignorance upon the subject of which he was speaking. The Hon. Member might have recollected, that at every meeting of the Anti-Corn. law League, he had assured the people that the effect of the repeal of the corn-laws would be to give a large loaf and cheap bread to the people—(Cheers from the Opposition benches) — and also to increase the exports of the country. When they had heard that in the county of Lancaster 500 mills were work ing short time, and that the exports of the country had fallen off five millions in the face of their free-trade and corn-laws —(Cheers)—it certainly required great assurance for the Hon. Member for Durham to charge his Hon. Friend with ignorance in the predictions which he had made.—( Renewed cheering.) With reference to the navigation laws, he was prepared to support her Majesty's Government, provided the suspension was restricted to corn alone ; but he could not sup port throosition for their suspension as regarded all other articles.e p The navigation-laws involved a great political and national question. He had always predicted that free-trade in corn would only be the precursor of a demand for free-trade in everything else.—(Cheers, and counter cheers.) He took occasion to tell the shipping interest, when they joined in the agitation for the repeal of the corn-laws, that such woold th b e e the consequence, and that the shipp in g interest would be next to came. He would not, however, avenge the that causel of the agricultural interest by lending his hand to th t e he r r e e pea was a the navigation laws. He had n ot for g otten time when the Dutch bad the whole carryingine bootr,adteheytthe of the e sv a ith world, and in consequence of their gr _rn enabled to lead their V a n Tromp haacromrmemreea. i- e mast head, to swee the Thames ot' Bri t s l should resist to the p uttermost an y atternpt i o gation laws, and to allow t h e c otton of Manchester rePa the nev (fur that was the object of the H on. Mem ber for Durham) to be brought home in any ships at the cheapest rate.—(Hear, hear. ) Coupled with the navigation laws, he agreed in the opinion that it would have been better to have sus pended them some time since; still he could not agree in any strong censure upon the conduct of her Nlajestv's Ministers. He did not believe there was a man in the country who, upon the 3d of August last, in his heart believed that there was any calamity such as the present impending on the country. He would not, therefore, condemn Ministers for not having foreseen this great famine. Regardin g the suspensionte of the 4s. duty, though he would not refuse consen t to the measure, he begged it to be distinctly understood that he did not believe that the step would enable the consumer to get hi s corn one farthing cheaper. Neither would he censure the Government because they had delayed the suspension of the duty, though he regretted that they had been led away with the clamour and the cry from without to change thei r i ntentions. He did not look at the matter as an agricultural or protection question, but he could nut help thinking that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not so lull-handed as to do without the duty at present raised from grain. Let them look at what passed only their grain, though the people were perishing. The Shah said, " These men have done well in keeping a supply of corn. Nadi: Schah then made a proclamation that 10,000 golden tomauns should be the reward of that good man who should produce the largest supply of food. Alany claims were sent in, but an Armenian gained the prise, for he had greater store than any one else. He thought the people cried out, and men and women and children asked for food—dying in the streets, he refused to sell—saying, " prices will yet rise." The Schah ordered his treasurer to go to the treasury and bring 10,000 tomauns, that the Armenian might be paid. He said, when they were brought, "Sit down, my friend, and count over thy gold." The corn merchant, having counted over his gold tomauns, said, " They are all right." It is told that then Nadir Schah ft owned on him, and, turning to his chief execu tioner, said, " Lay hands on him, and take him forth—tie the 10,000 tomauns to his feet, and hang him to the highest gate of the city of Rocharem —that all Persia may see that Nadir Schah does iustice to such as take advantage of a judg ment of God." That was the course, but in a milder form which had he been one of her Majesty's Ministers, he would adopt towards the forestallers and regraters, and other political economists in Ireland, who held out to get large prices from the starving children of Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) He would have recourse to that milder expedient by the enter prise of sending large supplies to compete with the existing prices of corn by the dealers. So that the people of Ireland should have the opportunity of purchasing corn at something nearer a proper price, than of purchasing it, as it was known they were, at 9s. per bushel for corn which cost the importer not 4s. Had her Majesty's Government pursued this course, as sure he felt that they should not now have had to lament the distress, and starvation, and death in many parts of Ireland, the people of which were starving as much from want of provisions as from want of money to buy them with. He was not going to offer any opposition to her Ma jesty's Government, but he could not support the measure without protesting that he for one was not ot opinion that there would be any result from it, save that of putting into the pockets of the corn merchants, and more especially into the pockets of foreigners, to whom he grudged it still more than he did to the merchants themselves, the amount of the difference of duty ; and although he supported it, he was not to be held responsible fur its consequences, and if he hail it in his power, he for one would have maintained the high duty, and offered that duty so levied to the maintenance and subsistence of the people of Ireland. —( Cheers. ) Mr. BROWNE said, in rising for the first time in the House of Commons, he felt naturally diffident, and he had not intended to speak at all, but that he had heard such arguments from the Noble Lord who had just sat down, that he could not help noticing them. The Noble Lord had related an Eastern tale ; he would tell a story to match it. At the time of the Emperor J ulian, the city of Antioch was in the same position as Ireland was at present, and in order to relieve it and its in habitants, its ports were thrown open to all vessels. The Em peror Julian, among others, contributed largely from the public purse, and the consequence was that those vessels which brought in corn were compelled to :ell their goods at the reduced prices, and therefore neither they nor the farmers would bring in their corn under any cir cumstances, and the city of Antioch was very nearly starved. What, another case in Bombay? They had a stock of rice to last 'hem for sixteen months at a time that the people were in a state of starvation. The Council deliberated for days and days, and at length took the step of keeping all the corn at home, and opening their ports to all vessels. After an anxious calculation, it was determined that it would be hest to permit the corn to go out, as it was wanted, in the confidence that all ships going to India would look in to see it Bombay was sup plied, and finding a demand, would sell their goods there. When it was known across the country, numerous vessels en tered the port, and having inquired the prices, and finding them fair, disposed of their cargoes of corn. He had not intended to have addressed the House on that occasion, but having done so, he thanked them for the attention they had paid him. Sir C. NAPIER, who was very imperfectly heard in the gallery, raid that in his opinion, to make use of an expression of the Noble Lord's, the navigation laws were the very bane of the shipping interests, and he felt satisfied, that if the naviga tion laws were totally and entirely abolished, much more enter prise would take place than was going on at the present mo ment. They would see that the seamen of this country would get more protection, better paid, and the Government would build much better ships than those which they were in the habit of building at the present moment, if it were once known throughout the works that the navigation laws did not exist. He wondered whether the Noble Lord was aware that from 50,000 to 60,000 British seamen were employed off the coast of America in consequence of the indirect operation of these laws. In his opinion, if the Navigation-laws were altogether abolished, they would not find any power able to cope with them. What had they done with respect to America ? It was found that the ships sent to trade with America were far inferior to the American ships brought to this country and what was done? All the energies ot the merchants were set to work, and they constructed those splendid steam-boats which now carried on the entire trade between England and America. He was surprised that the Noble Lord, with all his boldness, did not think proper to suggest, instead of opposing free trade in corn, did not suggest suspending by an order in Council the navigation laws. Mr. ROEBUCK said that he had been in some doubt with regard to the meaning of the Noble Lord thrst after noon, who, in speaking of the Member for Bath, seemed to throw some doubt upon his knowledge of the subject on which 'he had spoken. he would just draw the attention of the House to the construction of what the Noble Lord first said. The Noble Lord had said that he believed that the measure would be mischievous, and yet he supported it. That was his first proposition. He said he believed it to be mischievous, because it would not lower the price of corn to the people of Ireland, but the money world go into the hands of the fore stallers and regraters, to whom he went on to say he would do in a milder form, it he were empowered, w hat Nadir Shah did. Nadir Shah hanged the lsrmenian with ten thou sand golden tomauns at his feet, on a high gibbet. He sup posed, in the administration of the Noble Lord's infliction, the gibbet would be somewhat lower, and the ten thousand tomauns would not be at the feet of the men, but some where else. The Noble Lord ventured in his state ment to say that the measure of last year was mischievous, because it increased the price, of . c!ir i p . , and yet, said the Noble Lord, he did riot oppose it as wha ß t i: e He was convinced that the Noble Lord did not kr, vv corn during several said after he once sat down. He bad acopy I? which had been made of the duty leviedheaded c' a return of the months of the last year. It wass etween the 25 th of June of ave rage of the duty levied on corn between fthe return and he would just read it last year, and the 14th ot , J d by that return, that under the Act passed June was 4s. :1 , owablheilLeour'idideir"thijete'e ladndlaswomiet. ffroirenthdes.edififiecaftoitionn of th d e uring last session, the duty and Ss., and 10s, under the od law it would have been ISs. In July it would have been 55., 65., and 75., 195.. d lawln Aititg would a h a av 7 es . ' been 20s. In would t to he j a h v i e l. be u e n n d l e d r s September, 10s., 10s., and 95., while under the old law it would have been 205., 205., and 20s. In October it wa.s tits. , is , 55., 41 s and 45., while under the old law it wou ld have bean . 20s and . 16s. In November it was 4 4 s., s., arid 45,., while under the old law it would have been s, 15 135., 195.., and I'2s. In De cember it was 45., 45., and 4s , while under the old law it would have been 125., and 125., and 12s. Now he wondered what would have been the position of the country it the Noble Lord who had presumed to come down and assume the office of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if, atter such a statement as he hail made, any Member ot the House of Commons bad given such an answer to his observations as that which be had just read from the returns which be held in his hand? He trusted they were not comb g bank to the period when any man who followed an honest. trade was liable to be sent to prison, or any merchant was to endure hanging, for differing from the powers that be. He would like to know, if this principle were to be adopted, how it would further the prosperity of a great country like this? Yet it was only clinching the nail which a Noble Lord had inserted, llowe‘er lightly it might tend to induce other countries to follow our example. It only reminded him of two players of chess, and one of them was so long in making the move that his adversary fell asleep, who, when he awoke up, urge d his opponent with so much vehemence, that he made, the move in desperation and lost the game. If the Noble Lord at the bead of the Treasury would take his advice, he would imitate the conduct of the damsel who sent her three brotbars, accord ing to the eastern tale, to scale a mountain, where they were to sail by supernatural agencies, and shortly after their ascent began, were turned into marble. The damsel on hearing tlsis yesterday in the city of London. lie held then in his hand a circular issued by one of the most eminent brokers in the ..,.„, country. It teas published by Air. Osborne and Son, and . 1 41 ' stated that the effect of the joint nights' proceedikkr was to "s. n ) depress barley and malt, in which there were- seareely any r:N. transactions, while bonded corn had risen in price to the ~., "7,,,, extent of the reduc ion in duty. It stated further, that in '''i:t'-,, ,- _, grain generally considerable business was done, while grain is '1::.:,.---,ut Isfs bond had risen from 2s. to 3s. a quarter. This was a '.- 7 ,1' ..":: .." proof that every farthing of the reduction would go --:-. ~-ssr into the pockets of the corn factors. T he .complaint - he had against her Majesty's Government was, that ~, they had too strong a feeling for the corn merchants 51,4 and had there fore proposed the suspension of the duty in their favour.—(Hear, hear.) Assuming that four millions of quarters of wheat would be imported during the next twelve months, the effect would be that the revenue would lose 800,000/., while no good would be done to the con sumer, he would receive his food at no reduced prices.—( Hear, hear.) It was his opinion, that had the old law been retained 1 the Government would have been far different to what it is now, as it would then have, since the Ist of April last, received in duty 1,300,0001. instead of 600,000/., which might have been applied to meet the wants of the people of Ireland, and we would now have had in bond three millions of quarters which could have been purchased for that purpose. The duty before was never less than 10s., and the sum raised would have been to keep down prices, and the Government could have so arranged that not one man in Ireland need have died of starvation. (Hear, hear.) The present Govern ment, however, were not to blame for the change in the law, but they were to blame for not interfering to prevent the exportations of grain from Ireland, and in adhering so closely to their free trade doetrines.—( Hear, hear.) By a pacer which , he held in his hand, it appeared that during the last eleven months, while the imports of grain into Ireland had been 450,000 quarters, the exports were 1,700,000, being a balance of ex ports of nearlyll,3oo,ooo.—( Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQ UER said the do cument refe-red to took no account of the English grain ills• ported into Ireland, but only that from foreign countries. Lord G. BEN TINCK was sure the Chancellor of the Ex chequer would find that what had been stated was substantially correct, and that the balance of grain exported froom Ireland into this kingdom was 1,300,0(.0 quarters. If the Government had prohibited the exportation of this food, it would have sup ported two and a half million of persons till the next harvest.— (Hear, hear.) The Governmeut had likewise committed a great mista9e in stating that all the countries in the world had been ransacked for grain. They seemed to forget that the message of the President of the United States, delivered lon the Bth of December last, in which Mr. Polk stated in his message, that in home market it was totally impossible to dispose of the immense supplies, even at reduced prices. The provisions could not be consumed in the country. They were able not only to feed the people of their own land, but to sup ply the deficiencies of the whole world. They had also been furnished with an official state of the crops in the year 1845, issued by the Board of Trade, at Washington, the documents of which were generally as correct as those produced in this country, and it represented the total produce of the United States in that year to be 776,600,000 bushels of corn and grain of all sorts, being equal to 97,009,000 of quarters. An amount as stated by the Government paper at Washington, that ex ceeded by many tens of millions of bushels, the consumption of the United States. The yield of the present year had been much greater than 1845, so that there was little danger of prices rising much higher than they were now, and it would only be necessary for the Govern ment to furnish with larger depots for food, so as to keep down the prices. A friend, who had just been in Ire land, informed him, that even at the present time, the stacks of the farmers were than they usually were at this pet hid of the year, and that they were holding back for higher prices He did think that the great mistake of the Government consisted in following out the doctrines of political economy, and not taking measures to keep d ,wn prices in Ireland.—•( Hear.) They had doubtless many of them heard of the proceedings of the Eastern monarch, Ali Shah, one of the greatest, wisest, as well as one of the most mischievous monarchs that had ever ruled. His proceedings were more commendable than the policy of the present Government. It was said that a great pestilence devastated Persia, followed by a famine, in which men, women, and children, died in numbers. Complaints were made to the Shah that the rich merchants refused to sell \, ....... .• Rs l : ~ `• _,