The Sun. — London, England, 1804-03-22 00:00:00

IMPER iAL PAR,LI,IAIENT. N•'JUSE OF PEERS, WFDNESDAY, MARCH 21. Cour: cr t. were heard in continuation respeaing the Scotch A le.ing v. Abercrornby ; namely, Mr. ALEX oEit nut Mr. BOYLE, on the. part of the Respondent. t.ter which their Lordships adjourned the farther hearing of :ne case till Friday. The Bills kefore the House were forwarded in their several sties ; they were chiefly third readings. Amongst. which, thoie of the Irish Revenue Bill, the Irish Countervailing Duties Bill, the Irish Malt Duty, and the Hides and TO law-Importation Bills, took place. Several Private Bills were read a third time, and passed. An Officer from the Court of Exchequer in Ireland pre sented at the Bar certain documents relative to the pending Appeal Cause, Redington v..Redingtran, which were ordered to he on the Table. Adjourned till THREE o'clock To-morrow. HOUSE OF COMIWONS. WEDNtSDAY, MARCH 21. DR. GREY, from the British Museum, presented he Accounts ordered a few days ago by the House of Commons : they were ordered to lie on the Table. • The Reports of the Sugar Warehousing Bill and the Expiring Laws Bill were brought up and agreed to, and the Bills were ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER stated at the Bar, that His Majesty had been waited upon i:11 several Addresses of that House, that His :viajesty had received them graciously, and had tv2t , n pleased ro say he would give direCtions accord trziy. LISKEARD ELECTION. Mr. WM. DUND AS said, he rose -to' call the attention of the House to a Petition, which appeared to him to be of great importance to the rights of that House. The Petition was from WIA. HUSK'S, Esq. and the circumstances it contained were of yo peculiar a nature, that he hardly knew what :node of proceeding he ought to adopt. The Petition stated that an Eleaion had lately taken place for the Borough of Lisiceard, at which Mr.l-iusxts soN. was a Candidate, and was returned by the 111.40 r duly eleaed. When he came to Town, he found that another Paper, purporting to be a Return Of tie R.:turning Officer, but without his signature or his seal, had been sent to the Clerk of the Crown, stating that .Mr. THomAs SHERIDAN was duly elet'Aed. This Return had been first sent to the Ueder-Sheriff, and by him transmitted to the Clerk of the Crown, and the Under Sheriff thought pro per to certify that there was . double Return. Mr. flusKissoN was placed in a singular situation, be cause he could not complain of a double Return, for in po;nt of fart there was not a double Return, because the one which declared that NIT.SHERIDAN was duly eleaed. was neither signed nor sealed, so that in point of f ct they might as well have sent an old Bal:ad. it. contended that the Under.Fleriff could nor, by sc gross a trick, prevent Mr. Hos -1,-.1,0N from caking his Seat, and keep the Borough of Liskeard without a Representa:ive. He wished to ask the opinion 'of the SPgAKER as to the mode of rocetA og he ought to pursue. The SPEAKEI said, if the Petition complained of an undue Eleaion, it might be presented at the Table ; if not, he must move for leave to bring it up. Mr. Vim. Du N DAS then •moved for leave to bring up the Petition. The CHANC ELLOR cf the ExcHnouEtt. wished the Right Hon. Gentleman to state the purport of the Petition. Mr. DUNDAS said, the Petition stated the circumstances which he had mentioned, and prayed ler such relief as the House might think proper. The Motion was then agreed to, and the Petition was brought up and read. It stated, that at the last Election for the Borough of Liskeard, HIJ,K I toON and Mr. - THomAs SHERIDAN were Candidates ; that by the last decision of the Com raittee of the House of Comtnons, the Right of E:edion was in the . Mayor and Burgesses Of the said Borough, and that the Mayor was the Re tureittg Oilker ; that the Mayor and twenty Bur gesses voted fop Mr. Hu,KrssoN, and only three Burgesses f ,r Mr. 'l'. SHERIDAN, and that Mr. HUS- K ISSON wi":s therefore declared duly eleded at - al re turned ; but that the Under-Sheriff, Mr. DAMON, had annexed to his Return a second Schedule, by which Mr. T. SHE F. ID AN was returned, but which Schedule .had neither the seal nor the signature of the Mayor, ant therefore the Petitioner prayed for Air. PITT said, it appeared from the fits stated in +i e Petition, that the Sheriff had transmitted o nl y one Ret the Clerk of the Crown, but it did not appear to I that the 1-louse could proceed to , take any steps until thCy had ascertained the fads of the case, and the best way would he to order the Cerk of the Crown to attend with the Returns. If the fads were correaly stated, there was one corn. i slet. :regular R,:turrt, from which it appeared that the Returning Officer had executed no otheivlnden ture. It also avveared that the Sheriff had received from somebody something that purported to be an other ; not from another person claim hg to be a Returning Officer, but purporting to be another Re turn from the same Returning Officer, but neither sealed nor signed by him. If this really was the state of things, it appeared to him that the Sheriff has, in fad, made but one Return, and that the person so returned mist take his seat. But still the other Candidate might ado'pt the regular means of ascertaining his claim by presenting a Petition, the merits of which must be decided upon by a Com mittee. Suppose fur ais that there had been no other Candidate but. Mr. SHERIDAN, and that there was no other Return but that one which was now the subjed of discussion, there could be no doubt but that upon such a Return he could not take his seat.. If then this Return would have been of nc cite in the case only tif one Candidate, it cer. tastily cenid be nf no avail against a regular Return. 'Upon the whe'.e, he thought the regular m 'de of proceeding I,votid be to order theCerk of the Crown to attend e.lth the Returns, anti then the . 11ouse ~,..r ed d be a i s H o, jndge" wheith.r the facts were cur- starekt : Mr. SILE,R4D..q , y !,ai,!, he t the Right (;;;;Itletito I.Motton' would have aled more candidly if he had given him notice of his intention•of bringing,forward this Motion; The Question as to the Right of Eleaion in this Borough was to be decided in a very short time, and therefore he thought' that it would be proper that all proceedings upon the present Bubjeet should be deferred tsil after the Question of Right was decided. He was really unacquainted with the circumstances of this case, and did not know any thing of that Pastoral Cornish Gentleman (Mr. Da. mou), who had been mentioned. He certainly wished this double Return bad not been made, but it was not in the power of Mr. T. SHERIDAN to withdraw the second Return after it had been made.. The Right Hon. Gentleman had contended that such a Return could in no case he received by the House, but he could by no means agree in that pro position : because it was in fart the Sheriff who was bound to make the Returns, and he was.the respon sible person, and the Sheriff would have been justi lied in acting upon the Return of the Burgesses themselves. The Writ authorising the Eleetion was direeled to the Sheriff; it made no mention whatever of the Returning Officer. The House, therefore could know nothing hut of the Sheriff; if he at - led wrong he might be punished, and the party injured might undoubtedly bring an attion against him. The faCt was in this case, that a Return was first made to the Sheriff by the Inhabitants, of Mr. T. SHEItIDAN, which he accepted; afterwards ano. ther Return by the Mayor was also presented ; he received them both, and transmitted them to the Clerk of the Crown. This he understood to be the state of the faBs, and he contended that it was net a question upon which the House could decide, :but it must be referred to a Committee. Mr. WM. DUNDAS said, that with regard to the candour of his proceeding, he could only say, that he did not know of the Petition when he last conversed with the Hon. Gentleman upon the sub. jeCt. With regard to the second Returni he con. tended it was a mere nullity, because in WI it was not signed by any person, though it purported to be signed by the Returning Officer. ,Mr. SHERIDAN adverted to the case of the Elettion f..r Helstone, in which place a person who conceived he had a right to ad as a Returning Offi cer under an old Charter (though it had expired and a new one had been granted), actually made a Re turn of two Members, and the regular Returning Officer under the new Charter, returned two other Members ; in that case it was considered as a dou ble Return, and referred to a Committee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if this Return should turn out to be as it had been stated, a mere nullity, then the'House could of course immediately decide upon it ; but if there were any evidence to be examined,, then it must be referred to a Committee. He wished at present not to give any opinion upon the subje6l, or prejudge it in any manner. The Minion was then agreed to. Mr. PITT moved, that the Clerk of the Crown should attend to-morrow with the Returns. With regard to what haof been said by the Hon. Gentle man about double Returns, they were cases where two persons claimed to be Returning Officers, but in the present case the Return was not signed by a person claiming to be a Returning 'Officer, nor was it in fact signed ar all. Mr. BOROUGHS was of opinion that in this case there was • only one Return, and consequently the House could decide upon the point without re. fetting it to a Committee. MT. PITT'3 Motion WAS agreed to. A Message from the'Lurds Informed the House their. Lordships had agreed to the Irish Malt Duty Bill, and to the several other Irish Revenue Bills, without any Amendment. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House to consider further of Ways and Means for raising a supply granted to His Majesty. The Order being read, the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. moved, That the Account of the Dis position of Grants of Great Britain, presented on the 4th of March instant, be referred to the said Committee. O,dered. He then moved, That the SPEAKER do now leave the / Chair. The question being put, Mr. DENT was proceeding to make some obser vations on the promise of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER to bring in a Bill to indemnify Ban kers and other grear Commercial Persons who had received Dividends for others, by virtue of Powers of Attorney, from certain penalties in the Property Bill for not returning, as that Bill required, the amount of Dividends so received, &c. when he was informed by The SPEAKER, that nothing was regular upon the present Motion, except that which 'might be, urged by way of objection to the . SPEAKER leaving the Chair. 'Mr. DENT then caid, that if driven to that course, he must take it, and objet to the SPEAKER leaving the Chair, until at least some explanation was given 'to some questions he had to put to tlw CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, and it was in formation he had a right to ask in the common course of business in that House. He said it referred • to the situation of all those who acted as Agents in the management of Dividends, and who were so circumstanced as to demand the attention of the House, and particularly the information of the Right Hon. Gentleman ; for if the House shouldadjourn over the sth of April, which was. probable, and make no provision cn this subjeCt, those Bankers and others, who had received dividends for others, would all of them be subjeft to the penalties in the Property • Bill, for not returning an account of the amount of them as that Bill required, for then four quarters of the Tax under, that Rill w ill b e due.—Not one of those who had thus received dividends for others by virtue of Powers of Attorney, would he exempted from the penalties in the Property At for not returning the 'amount of such dividends. The hardship of this wt.,ulal be enormous, for When they had an iriN,r course with the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQU f R. early in the Winter, when the diflicnities of -con. fort-ning to the Property Att began to b! felt, they were i!ss;...'red that rite Bill would .be %mended by a ( - 21 a 135 ('--* 11 . ) Hon. Gentleman intended to. propose, to exempt Bankers and other persons of that description from the pen a lties of the Al, and that such Clause was to be brought in soon after the Christmas Recess. It was expected of the can. dour of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that such a clause would have been proi)osed soon after the Christmas Recess, and yer the House was now about to adjourn for the Easter Recess without any such provision.: nor did it appear that any alteration was intended to be made in the Proncrty Bill this Session, as had been colletled by what the CH AN _ CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said in answer to a question which had some time ago been put to him, and by which it seemed that the Property Tax was to be tried by way of experiment for the present year, in order that Ministers might judge whether it was, a measure fit to be continued or not. There was, however, in that answer, also an assurance that the Bankers and other commercial persons who had received dividends for others, and who, on account of some insuperable 'difficulties in the Property Aft, had been unable to make returns conformable to that Ad, should he indemnified against the penalties of that Ad. The answer was, that '' they shotkid not be liable." Now he hoped he should have an explicit answer to the. / que.stion he was about to put to tie CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER, for he came down on purpose to put that question on be half of the great body of Bankers and commercial men who were apprehensive that They should he all liable to these penalties; although it had not,been their fault that they were incurred. The question was this, Whether any such Clause as that which the Cs ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER promised to .propose soon after the Christmas Recess, or some other measure to that effete, was to be brought for ward before •tile approaching Easter Recess ? Upon the answer which he received to that question would depend the course he should pursue on the question now before the House. The next question was equally rinmentous with the former, and that was-- At what period the Holders of the Loyalty Loan were entitled to be plid . cfF, under the Provisions of the Law upon the subject of that Loan ?—The Aft - of Parliament said two years after signing the.Defi nitiVe Treaty of Peace, and that six months notice should be given. - He understood that the opinion of the Attorney and Solicitor General had been taken upon this subject ; .but the parties concerned in that Loan could not learn what that opinion was, or what was understood to be the Law upon that subjea ; and they wished to have their. doubts re moved upon it by some public declaration upon which they might rely, for otherwise by the io'h of October next they would be under some difficul ties ; upon which subjea also he wished for some explanation. It was thus he was obliged to apply to the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, fur with out some public explanr lion from that' Right Hon. Gentleman, these parties could not judge property of the situation in which they 5t00d,.,. . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that consistently with the forms of the House, he could hardly answer the Hon. Gentleman, be cause no answer he could give could have any re ference to the question that the'SPEAKER &) now leave the Chair; but, however, by the indulgence Of the House, he should answer the Hon. Gentle man. Oh the first pciint he was perfedly satisfied that the House would think it incumbent on them to relieve the parties to whom the Hon. Gentleman had adverted, from the penalties to which they might be liable under the provisions of the Property Bill, and the question now only was, whether it was absolutely , necessary that the provision for their e xemption should take place previous to the ensuing Easter Recess, or might he deferred until after. 'wards : upon which sujca it was his intention to . propose to bring in a Bill to remove, doubts upon this subjea, fur the purpose of exempting them f ro m penalties, to which by the. way he believed t h e y were not liable ; hut, however, as doubts were entertained, it would be well to remove them. In cas e any proceeding should be had for the ipurpose of recovering any of these penalties, the House in i t s justice would interpose and stop such proceed ings. As to the second point, he was a little stir prized at the question of the Hon. Gentleman ; he must know from his connelions, that at the request of some persons immediately interested in the Loyalty Loan, that an application was made to him for the purpose of ascertaining what was the con strudion put upon the terms and conditions specified in that Ad of Parliament : he referred the point to the Attorney and Solicitor General. The opinion of these learned Gentlemen was communicated to Government, and a distind communication was made to the Bank, and to that he begged leave to refer the Hon. Gentleman. Mr. DENT observed, there was a positive pro. mise do the subject of Bankers liability for receiving dividends, &c. under the Property Tax, that a provision should- be made immediately after the Christmas Recess. He must again repeat his appre hension of the danger of deferring it till after the sth of April, when the four quarters, will be due on the Property Tax. He observed, that when the Bankers.,had waited on the Right Hon. Gentleman upon. this subject, they declared he had treated them - with•great . candour, by which he had been led to dismiss all doubt that the Right Hon. Gentleman would fulfil his promise immediately after 'the Christmas Recess. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that a fortnight ago he told the Hon. Gentle man . distintaly his intention to bring forward a pro position, and of his confidence in the disposition : of the House to grant it, for the purpose of : pioteding the persons, to whom he had alluded, from the penalties under the Property Bill ; and if it was any great satisfaCtion to them, as by the manner in which the Hon. Gentleman pressed it in their behalf he apprehended it would, the measure might yet be proposed before the Easter ReEess. He did not al left to distrust the Hon. Gentleman, but if he had a few hours for the purpose of ascertaining whether it was really and bona fife the wish of the. Bankers that a measure should be brought forward before the Recess, he should be glad to hold a conversation upon that subject. Mr. DENT said a few words. The .SPEAKER suggested the propriety of limit ing the indulgence of the House to this irregularri c.versation. Mr. PITT s aid, he had no desire to prolong the conversation, but he must observe, that as ir was , stated that these penalties had been incurred, and as it was a general opinion that the part ies who 1131 incurred them ought to be indemnified in this ‘a casei they ought to be relieved from the penalties out delay, lest a further difficulty might afi , e bY,, other persons instituting suits for the recovery ot the penalties under the Ad of Parliament. 'al subjel of the Loyalty Loan, he observed, that had -been apprehended the Ad of Parliament ha d somehow by mistake been drawn up in a war' ner which was not Stridly conformable In th e Resolutions upon the terms of which t he Lay' alty Loan was contraCted for; this was a 113is' take for which he himself was in some degree tin: swerable, and therefore he Was the more hounq, to take notice of it, and to do all he could to rea if r the error, for it happened when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer-. The Resolutions of the Cot mittee were the foundation of 'the bargain and Co il ' trad for that Loan, and if the Ad of Parlia ment happened by mistake afterwards to be drawn a manner that was not conformable to that Res° lti- ; tion, it ought to he altered, or some relief shoo" be given to the ContraCtors for that Loan, othere.° . ' wise Parliament would be guilty of a breach of towards these persons. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQ UEII n • said, he could assure the Right Hon. Gentle tii ,fi that great pains had been taken to ascertain sy", s " were really the terms of the Loyalty Loan, and the opinion of th Attorney and Solicitor Garieralahe) ' been taken on it ; but, however, it was notoosailitc for these learned Gentlemen to give an opinion 0/-'''°-; any thing but the Aft of Parliament •itself,- no r - it possible for Government, without further dir e " ; . tion4rotn Parliament, to accede to any constru upon the Loan, but such as the law warranted. , Mr. PITT said, he 'never stated that the ltt Hon. Gentleman, or the Lords of the Treasurre • could do otherwise than comply striftly with . Ad of Parliament, but what he said was, that 41'— Aft ot Parliament had by mistake been draw n ‘ ll , in a manner not conformable to the Resolutions e ; which, and on which only the Loyalty Loan v 't founded, that Ad ought to be altered, and 1 1 11 ‘'. 7 t . conformable to the Resolutions from whicil l emanated, and if it were not made so confortn4hie' Parliament would be guilty of a breach of fa+th td' wards the Subscribers, and in this respeet ) 1 e took , some blame to himself for the inadverteneY• Mr. VANSITTART said a few words, whi e e h ws could not distindly hear. The House then 'resolved itself into a' Committ ee of the whole House, to consider of Ways and IVlean, for raising a Supply granted to Hi; Majesty. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQU ER said, that if Gentlemen would have the goodness to turn to the third page of the Disposition Par r ' they would perceive that the total of Grants for th e ; Naval Service of last year was 9,551,3781; and the debt for the Naval Service Was 8,174,7 1 ' 1 ' fore the Grants exceeded the Debt by 1,776,6671 a This being the ca,e, lie should have to propose su e t the amount of this surplus should be issued and O' _ were it not for circumstances he was al:an° to state. In the itch page of the Disposition Pati r ; several payments were stated and made by anth°rirra of an Aft of Parliament, out of the ay a nd M i tic t. of the year, ,and that -amounted to 5 79 .706 1 ' '„a ther e thaz reduced the surplus he had above stare d ' t hat therefore the Committee would not conside r 667 1 there was really a saving to the amount of 1 ,77 6 . 5 a that was to sty, that the Public had expended i t by that amount in the Navy than the grants 'un c)ilfi ed to, f or t h at in fad the Navy Debt had increoseii 931,6591. last year. Gentlemen might ask how could be ? but they would he aware, that in m a an t instances it was wholly unavoidable, on aee°`tei of what might be paid to Seamen on Foreign Se rsuc ag and which it was impossible to calculate the e mo t ed of bef o re h an d, and that sometimes accum nl4 .as some time before it could be ascertained. 1' 13 °,.. stated several sums on this head, the sum h e }:„ / - 0 5 posed to be voted now upon this occas ion, 0 1,370,6741. —and therefore he - moved, that l i toc i the opini o n of this Committee, that there be isi u fi and applied to the service' of the year, &c. th e 5 0 0 , of 1, 370 ,664. zs. Bd. from the Surplus of the c't! ,-• ot th e year 1803. was Lord FOLKESTONE contended that thie re s ur e a fallacy_ in the account, as i n fad there 0 0 S ri - 0 , plus, but on the contrary, a deficiency. N,‘;„ t eti tice was taken of the surplus of the Consn il • 'P t Fund. The War Taxes had been estimate d 110 and ' duce by the sth of , January last, 4 , soo ,o o° " do cea had fallen short 2,603,0001. this therefore fe ar to a' the surplus appearing on the face of the ;,ccou" .. ., the deficiency of 1 , 300 , 000 1. H e a l so o bj e ated t' t be mode of making up the account, as it could n° pad , understood from it upon what it was the 53' 41 11 arisen. It had been stated by a Noble Lord O, co, - former occasion, that the Land Forces amonntenod; 96,000 ; the number its the account was only 6 6 '? t fic he wished to know therefore out of what fun') 00 remaining number were paid. He saw likewis,eakc item ,of 1,500,0001. to enable His Majesty tO _fi r e r such steps as the exigency of affairs might l' equ ekt' but there was no account how that money "" s ' • pended. had been, Mr. said, the accounttha - : made out in a similar manner from year t o yea tways pradice being to appropriate the excess of the I , o f and Means over the Supply in aid• of the Sul the, the ensuing year, notwithstanding there Inig ro ws outstanding demands. With respect } to the sti tta io , of the Consolidated Fund, about 9 00,0001• re' ivy ed to be made good. As to the a'far Taxe s ' to ire were estimated not to the eth of January. bu t u t Of sth of April, at a produce of 4,so , o l: ::::: lse. o l:Lic p b ai‘ l i, that however, there had been up to last we e „foe into the Exchequer 3,130,000 1 . only remained a deficiency ot 1,300,0001••• . st h of probable might he paid in before Abe lase Aprti, ot at least reduced to a small . sra y; e „ items ip the account were arranged in the o il d 00 ° as to the Army the number of Forces ,atat.i'm ' or former occasion, included various deseril „ a t. force wloch could not come within this - ace icc onti Of he Surplus stated oa the face of th e 1 , q uer ' l O 900,000 i. aetualiy remained in the E x- t applied. seve t V AN siTT Lent FOLKESTONE and Mt. A t rally explataed. i f Ilse great Mr. JOHN.STONE wished CO kilOW l