The Sun. — London, England, 1847-12-03 00:00:00

and by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel). No banking Act could, in his opinion, prevent such a result following from such a course. He saw no advantage which could result from interference, but believed the evil must be left to cure itself. He was favourable to the imposition of some check on the Bauk, whose in terest was to keep money plentiful, and especially upon the issue ef country bank notes. Mr. DRUMMOND said that the Right lion. Baronet the Member for Tamworth must be a wonderful man, and his Bill of 1844 be a most wonderful Bill, if either could accomplish one-twentieth part of that which had been attributed to them.—(llear, and a laugh.) lie (Mr. Drummond) was not one of those who thought the repeal of the corn-laws had anything whatever to do with the position in which this country was now placed ; but, with regard to railroads, he confessed that he thought both the late and the present Government had been much to blame when, having been warned by their own respective boards, they ought to have taken some decisive measure to check the mania which some time since raged. Railroads had served to raise the interest on mortgages, and he feared the con sequences would not end until they had witnessed a great sacrifice of pirate property. The misfortune, too, was, that they could not atop where they were—the railroads which had been commenced must be finished, and more money would be required. With respect to the Bill of 1844, ho had expected that it was to be the precursor to to the putting an end to the connexion between the Go vernment and the Bank of England; but it was quite obvious, from what had recently transpired, that the mode of conducting the business of the Bank had beeu completely changed. As to over-trading, it was mani fest that it had existed to an incredible extent. In an cient times, when argosies went out from Venice or Ge noa, they carried goods and bullion to exchange for Produce, and there was in the world no such thing as trading by paper until this nation had chosen in its wis dom to get rid of its own race of kings, and to bring over a Dutchman.—(Hear, and laughter.) Hence had arisen a system of raising a false credit. A most astute and cautious mercantile man had stated, " When people talked of solid capital without credit, they had no know lodge of the commerce of this country. A man with a capital of 10,000/. may legitimately be doing business to three times that amount." So that it was clear the system ott which the trade of this country had been carried on was perfectly rotten, for it was quite clear to him that a trade conducted on a credit to the extent of three times the solid substance a man possessed could not stand. How was it that the adver sity had so much increased in its depth and intensity ? Because they had changed the whole relative condition of society. In former times the land was considered everything, and a distinction had been established by common law, because it was common sense, between that which was real and that which was personal ; but of late years the practice had been to cry down land and exalt cotton ; they had put down the landlords and ex alted the cotton lords—(A laugh)—they had cheapened goods, but they had also taken from their customers the means of buying them.—(Hear, hear.) They had list ened to a manufacturer of consummate eloquence, pru dence, and judgment, who had said that the towns should rule the country. The towns did so, and much good might it do them.—(Hear, and a laugh.) The system had enabled them to raise colossal fortunes amidst a starving population.—(Hear, hear.) Under it the operatives were lording it over them at one time, and burning their mills and sacking their palaces at another. It had been said that free-trade principles Pervaded the land, and London was pointed to as having, In maintenance of those principles, returned as its repre sentative the Noble Lord at the head of the Treasury. That was true; but the constituency had taken off some of the grace of that charm by coupling the Noble Lord With a Jew. —(Laughter.) But on the other hand, the constituency, par excellence the most enlightened modern Athens, had given a reverse judgment, for they bad found • out that the modern Demosthenes must not come bete, and they had sent in his stead a gentleman who was to teach the House how to behave itself.—(Laughter.) Mr. MACGREGOR said that he would have abstained from obtruding himself on the attention of the House, Were it not that, as the representative of a great coin refrOial constituency, he felt called upon, when the subject of commercial distress was under consideration, „t° address a f ew o b serva ti on s to the House. His Right Lon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated with great ability the causes of the commercial distress Which had visited the country, and although he agreed with his Right Hon. Friend in attributing the distress to those causes, he differed from him as to the degree to which some of the causes had operated. He conceived that the deficient harvest and the failure of the potato crop was the principal cause of the distress which pre vailed. With respect to railways, although Parliament had passed a much greater number of Railway Bills than he thought it was wise to do, he did not attribute much of the distress to investments in railways, for during the period of unparalleled scarcity which had recently prevailed, be believed that the employment afforded by railways had, to a great extent, relieved the distress of the country. Nor did he attribute tke distress to the Bank Charter Act of 1844 , although he thought th a t Act was d efective, and believed that it would be pro ductive of so much inconvenience that Parliament would be obliged to remedy its defects. It was his opinion that we should never hare a currency not con vertible into gold ; but, at the same time, he conceived that the restrictions imposed by the Bank Charter Act of 1444 constituted, particularly as regarded Scotland, a grievance, and must necessarily cause much inconvenience, and some commercial distress. It was a matter of regret to him that his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer referred to the Scotch bankin g system, or rather the joint-stock banks of that country, in terms which were calculated to create an erroneous impression respecting those establishments. He believ e d t h at to the system of Scotch banking, coupled with the economy and industry of the people, bthe general prosperity of that co untry and the great im-rovements made in manufactu res and agriculture, must e attributed. The b est test of t a e l p n er u its he o r f o th i eScotch failures banks was to be found i n the sm which had taken plac e , an d also in the ta fact that of the establishments which had failed nearly all had pa id in full their obligations to the public. He e le ave to read a passage from Mr. M'Culloch's " b a gged Sttistics of the British Empire," on the subject of Scotch banks : " Owing partly to the superior stability derived from their extensive proprietary, but more perhaps to the less risk attending the business f bankin g Scotland,o rareamong g bankruptcies have been veroyni Scotch hanks. They have long enjoyed the unli mited confidence of the public, and from t h e i r receiving small sums ( 101.) as deposits and paying in terest upon them at about 1 per c en t. below the market rate, th e y h ave con t r ib u t e d muc h to diffuse a spirit of economy, and to increase accumulation. One-pound notes were issued by the Bank of Scotland in 1704, and their issue has been thence continued to the present day; the Act prohibiting their circulation in England not h iving been extended to Scotland. For many years Past very little gold coin has been seen in Scotland. The Scotch banks make their advances partly by dis count of bills and partly by what are called cash crc. dits The latter is a very convenient method of issue. A cash account is a credit given by the bank to an in dividual drawing for it, wholly or partially, as he pleases, replacing it in the same way—being charged interest only on the portion he withdraws." A little pamphlet, written in 1734 by Patrick Lindsay, then Lord Provost of Edinburgh, gives an account of the condition of Scot land previously to the establishment of banks in that Country. Mr. Lindsay says:—" We were then stran gers to trade. War was our trade and military discipline our profession and sole study. When we had peace at home our gentlemen and persona of quality went abroad in quest of foreign adventures, and carried with them numbers of the common people as soldiers and troops for foreign service. Many of them were en gaged on both sides in these wars in the low countries." No country had ever developed its resources so exten sively and so advantageously as Scotland bad since the Royal Bank was established in 1727. No country of equal population had made greater improvements in agri culture and manufactures. It would be unjust in refer ring to the progress which Scotland had made, to with hold all allusion to the excellenc e which she has attained in naval architecture, particularly in the dep artment of steam-vessel s . Th e admirable steamers vvhieh run be tween Liverpool and Boston and New York were all built in the Clyde, and it was not going too far to assert, that better v esse l s t h an those constructed in Scotland, whether for the - purposes of war or commerce, never were launched from the dockyards of this country. All this had taken place under the Scotch system of bankin g ; and therefo re h e trusted that no attempt would be made to interfere, rashly with a system which had d d pro uce such beneficial results. Let it be understood that he did not wish to; see a system of' currency in Scotland which should not be convertible into gold ; all he maintained was, that the Scotch banks were adapted to the wan t s of the country in which they were estalalish f ed, andwaanna offered every purpose which was re quired _o them. Mr. SANDARS said it had bee n stated that the com mercial distress in whioh the coun try involved was attributable to railways, but ho e'clredl from that proposition. lie should like to kn y ow whether ented the construction of railways had sent gold out of the country. Had it caused the exchanges to be against us? Had it caused the floating capital of the country to be converted to fixed capital? Certainly not.—(Hear, hear.) It had been said that money expended on the construction of railways—that railway capital, was all fixed capital. That was not so. If a ,man, for in stance, invested 50,0001. in railways it undoubtedly became fixed, in a certain souse; but what became of the lawyers' bills, the sums expended in iron, wages, ma terials, &c.? Provisions were purchased by the la bourers employed, by the iron founders, artisans, &c . The sums paid in that way were therefore no drain _uPon the coun t r y—th e y rem ained in it, and were fion In capital. As to the Bank Charter he thoug ht it I mpossible, even in times of prosperity, t h at he it could be operative ; in times of pressure, need hardly express hi s o pi n ion that the c urrency of th e coun t r y was i na d e quate for its use. It did not stand to reason, when corn was selling M 51. and 61. a quarter last year, that the currency should be the same as when corn was down to 50s. a quarter. Could it be said that the distress had not been deeply, although perhap s i n di rect l y, affected by the operation o f the Bank Charter ? What a state the mercantile com munity must have been in when they were obliged to undertake the payment of eight per cent. for accommo dation ! Now he would tell the Right Hon. Baronet that the trade of the country could not have borne such an impost. If the Committee of Inquiry which the Right Hon. Baronet had thought it necessary to ask for were appoint e d, t h e result would be many , perhaps different r emedies, would b e proposed. However, ho (Mr. San • days) did not object to the inquiry, but he wished to sug gest that s ome temporary measure should be passed ,in the interim, to s us p en d t h e operation of the Bank Charter, Charter, and remove suspense and uncertainty a mon gst the m ercantile interests. All the mischief that had been • done was for the sake of convertibility! Had they ac complished th e i r d esigns ? No such thing ! Re main- bad (11,1, 2 00 + u 46; •, • d fo per itj a l etio ,,th is 133°P TFIA StrN, tained we had no such thing as;:convertibility, and what he would suggest was, that silver should be made the standard as well as gold. He had never been an advo cate for free trade, but he thought, as the measure had passed, it ought now to have a fair trial. He did not attribute our recent calamities to free trade, but to the large and necessary importations of grain in 1846. Some disparagement was cast upon the merchants who had been engaged in the importation of grain during that year. He was prepared in that place to defend them. What were the facts ? In January, 1847, the First Minister of the Crown (Lord J. Russell) came down to that House, and recommended the importation of foreign corn upon as extensive a scale as possible. With that view—to encourage the importation of it—some of the restrictions then existing were removed. In July of the same year similar recommendations were repeated—a farther suspension of duties took place. Corn was im ported accordingly, and the country stood in need of it. Instead, therefore, of the importers being blamed, they were, he conceived, entitled to the thanks and approba tion of the country, even though some pecuniary advan tages should have accrued from such speculations. Our stock of corn was already growing very low, and i❑ his opinion, before next harvest we should have to send eight or ten millions of money out of the country for grain to meet our actual requirements. Sir W. CLAY should decidedly support the appoint ment of the Committee. Ho wished to caution the House and the country against expecting too much from the inquiries and recommendations of the Committee, or from the legislation which might follow. Legislation upon these subjects was rather valid to prevent evil than to originate good. It was quite beyond the power of the Legislature to add one single pound to the capital of the country. The utmost it could do was to take care that the country, in making use of a paper currency, should not overstep the limits within which alone the advantage of a paper currency might be safely used. The point of the inquiry of the Committee would be practically this, whether the object of the Act of 1844 had been desirable; and secondly, whether that object had been attained. It should be borne in mind that the framers and supporters of that measure had never held it out as a measure that would of necessity prevent fluc tuations. In his opinion, the experience of the last year had afforded a most convincing proof of the ♦alue of the measure of 1844. It was to the natural operation of that Act he attributed the beneficial change which had taken place in the course of the last six weeks, and by no means to the relaxation permitted by the Govern ment letter of tho 25th of October. As to that pro ceeding itself, he by no means concurred is the opinion that it ought to have been earlier adopted. Had the measure been earlier taken, it would soon have been fol lowed by a large issue of paper of the Bank, and the consequent entire derangement of the exchanges. He considered it idle to talk of restriction of the currency ; for, under the Act of 1844, it was made to expand to the fullest extent necessary ; all that was done was to prevent a factitious superabundance of issues. The events of the last twelvemonth had convinced him that something was necessary to regulate the Bank's action. Mr. MASTERMAN said he should not have risen ex cept for the remark that had fallen from the Hon. Mem ber for the Tower Hamlets (Sir W. Clay), as to the re cent interposition of Government. He considered that the Committee would be the proper place for discussing the causes of the recent commercial disasters, but he was anxious now to express his opinion that great credit was due to the Government for their recent interference, at a moment when, he believed, the country was never in a more dangerous state.—Hear.) The evil at that time was not so much a want ,of money, as the belief that there was a want of it ; a panic existed withont any real cause.—(Hear, hear.) He had had the honour to form one of a deputation who waited on the members of the Government; and though, in that inter view, he had advocated some relaxation, he had done so without any wish to give room for fictitious issues.— (Hear, hear.) He had never been favourable to the Bill of 1844. At the time it was proposed he had ex pressed his opinion that no one could say whether the authorised amount of fourteen millions was sufficient ; and that it might be necessary to give the Bank power to issue beyond that amount.—(Hear, hear.) From what was said by the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he conceived he was now convinced that that measure could not longer work without some modi fication. If the Committee was appointed, its inquiries might occupy a long time; and he hoped that some re solution would be come to by the House in the interim, giving the public confidence that the Bank would be authorised to extend its issues if necessary. He begged again to thank the Government for their timely and valuable interference.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BLEWITT severely condemned the Act of 1844, and likened its operation to that of an "infernal ma chine." He quoted from the speech of Sir R. Peel, in proposing the Act of 1819, and contended that the Right Honourable Baronet had contradicted his own principles in the Act of 1844. He felt dis gust at the principles which had been pre scribed to the Bank as their rule of action. It would seem, from the way the Chancellor of the Exche- Exchequer treated the matter, that they were first to be p ruined before they were to be saved.—(A laugh.) When the letter of the Government was written, had the potato crop emerged from its rottenness, had the great houses arisen from their ashes, or had the foreign exchanges altered at the magical bidding of Wood, the enchanter ? —(Renewed laughter). Not so! though happily now, if all did not go so merry as a marriage bell, at least the bell that rung the knell of commerce had ceased to toll. —(lronical cheers and renewed laughter.) But he was tiring the House.—(Cries of " No, no; go on.") Well, then, he would state his views on the subject of converti bility and the standard.—(Hear.) What the gold standard was he was unable to say ; but that it was something of consequence in the opinion of the Right Hon. Baronet was clear from the fact that he would not have a silver standard at any price. All people were entitled to demand gold from the Bank of England at a certain price. Why should we be obliged to buy gold, not at its market price, but at a price fixed upon it by the bullion brokers ? Suppose the Em peror of Russia were to take it into his head to ex change his millions of gold for iron rails, or any other product of this country, why there would be no demand for gold at our fixed price, and it would have to lie in the cellars of the Bank useless, except, perhaps, to minister to the diseased fancies of the bullionists.— (Hear, and laughter.) For his part, he could not con ceire whence arose the dread there was in this country of an export of gold. He could see no reason why gold should not be made an exchangeable commodity as well as anything else. When our crops failed we had real cause for dread, but what was the use of shedding tears for the loss of bullion, which was mere dross, and only useful as a medium of exchange. He was anxious that an addition should be made to the subjects for inquiry by the Committee as to the operation of tho Act of 1844, and he trusted that would be assented to. On the motion of the Marquis of GRANBY, the debate was then adjourned. __ RAILWAY BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave notico that he should proceed with the Railway Bill at the meetin g et the House to-morrow. The House adjourned at Twelve o'clock. ROUSE OF LORDS, Dec. 2. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, in the absence of the Lord Chancellor, took his seat upon the Woolsack shortly after Five o'clock. IRELAND.-COERCION BILL. The Duke of RICHMOND gave notice that he should, to-morrow, move for a return of the number of persons who had been tried under the provisions of the Coercion Act introduced by Lord Grey's Government. Lord FARNHAM presented a petition from Sun derland (as we understood) praying their Lordships to adopt immediate measures for the restoration of tranquillity in Ireland. He did not consider the measure introduced by the Government of a suffi ciently stringent nature to put an end to the system of murder which was the disgrace of Ireland, and he besought their Lordships and the Government to adopt measures of such a stringent character as should effectually put an end to the system of terror at pre sent existing in Ireland. DEFENCES OF THE COUNTRY. The Earl of HARDWICKE gave notice of a motion after Christmas on the state of the defences of the country. CHIEF POOR-LAW COMMISSIONER. Lord BROUGHAM asked when the Chief Poor law Commissioner would be appointed ? The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was understood to say that the subject was under the consideration of the Government. DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then rose to move for a Select Committee to inquire into the causes of the recent commercial distress, and how far it has been affected by the laws for regulating the issue of bank- no t es paya bl e on demand. In bring ing forward this motion, he mig ht be permitted etoausepsrefaceef theit by exis s t o i m n e obs ervationsdtress It tn had pleased Providence to destro y g a large portion rtion if the produce of the earth, an d it was not in the power of n adm th i e tte r d e . al any Government to supp ly the loss ; that fact was ge nerally l h a a t d ion bee capital du r i of which hads Another source of that distress peculation which had been the last three years—specu iwnhdiuclhgedtheingone far beyond anything and which no the c oun t ry wou ld : warrant, Government could b o expec t e d or y could be able t o suppl r ea w pn i .e y d e , a r u s n a d g e o r he al l h e a i d r enm been asked whether he was. three prepared to C hartercomth Bitilhli;mhseolfhoand stances,said that t o maintain h •wasnh not p heprepared t o the subject at that ti me , neither w commit himself on th e su bj ect now a ny y more th an h e b should be prepared to say, that b ecause a v esse l of a certain partic , ilar constructi on into port under certain circumstances, that , re co t safe come with fore, it was a construction best fitted to co pe m circumstances entirely different. It was a matter for inquiry; and, therefore, he moved for the ap pointment of this Committee ; but he thought it right, in order to prevent any misapprehension, to state that he did not propose to abrogate the law under a w n h d i c h w t h h i c e h c u rren c y h enforced a a d m e b t e a e l l n It t 0 3arre s, struck him that the main subjects of inquiry would be, Ist, w w h h a a t t w w e e r r e e t t h h e e e p i r r o e vi hm sio st n a s of the Act heesprodhe o in f 18 g 44 ; the pr 2 es d e l h y, t distress ; and idly, what effect had the Act of 1844 had in producing these circumstances.—(Hear.) It had been the opinion of many that the Act of 1819 would be sufficient to establish the currency upon a secure basis, but it appeared that wader cer- 1 LONDON, ritIDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 3, 1847. taro circumstances an over-issue of paper had taken place, and that on some occasions the Bank of Eng land had been on the verge of being unable to comply with the requisites of the law. The Bill of 1844 had been introduced to bring about a state of greater safety, at the same time securing to the country the advantages of leaving as much paper to perform the offices of gold as could be left with safety to the system, and with safety to the country. The Bank was permitted to issue 14,000,0001. of notes, but for every note beyond it must have gold in their coffers reedy to meet it. Such were the provisions of the law of 1844. At the beginning of last autumn the commercial world was suffering from a panic unequalled in intensity. The demand for capital was enormous—the demand of capital for railways in 1841, 1842, and 1843, was four millions and a half; in 1844, 6,000,0001.; 1845, it had increased to 14,000,0001. In the first half of 1846, the demand was 9,800,000/. ; up to the second it was 26,000,000, making 36,000,0001.; and, in 1847, it was 63,7t7,000, thus doubling the demand for capital of the preceding year. Where was all this capital to come from which there was no visible means of sup plying? He knew not it he should be told that there was some inexhaustible mine of wealth, the ac cess to which had beeen cut off by Sir U. Peel's Bill. He believed in no such mine, and it had only existence in the heated fancies of speculators. This demand for railways had been aggravated by the demand for capital to pay for foreign corn. In 1846 this demand amounted to 5,139,000/. In 1847 we had to pay for foreign corn 14,184,0001. It was to these great demands uponlour capital that he attributed the pressure, and that pressure would have existed whether the Bill of 1844 had existed or not. It, perhaps, had caused the pressure to be felt somewhat sooner, but he believed that the value of that Bill had been proved, by bringing on the pressure gradually, instead of sud denly, and thus avoiding a sudden and abrupt convulsion, which it is the object of all legislation to obviate. He was not, however, prepared to say in what manner the existence of that law may have aggravated the panic, which was itself a great calamity independently of the pressure. With respect to the pressure, he did not think any act of Government could relieve it, but he thought that the Government might act upon the panic. The panic induced persons to hoard the precious metals, which produced great inconvenience, and he believed that the panic had been greatly miti gated by the measures adopted by the Government. "The effect of the letter of the Prime Minister to the Bank had been highly satisfactory, and had restored confidence without any infringe ment of the provisions of the Act of 1844. It would be for their Lordships to determine how far they would maintain the principle of that Act or how far they would be inclined to modify its provisions. The operation of the Act of 1844 would form one most important subject of inquiry before the pro posed Committee. He had in 1844 given a silent vote in favour of the Bill, because, admitting the defects of the measure of 1819, he was willing to give this measure, which professed to remedy those defects, a fair trial. It had had that trial, and it would be for the Committee to inquire how the mea sure had worked. He was not now going to argue the question of the Bank Charter Act, but he would say that that Act might exist for twenty years without any such occasion again arising. He was not pre pared to say that no circumstances could arise in which it might not be necessary for the Govern ment or for Parliament to interfere with the stringent provisions of the statute. It would be for their Lord ships to consider whether, under any circumstances, they might not retain the operation of the Act itself and legalize peculiar departures from it. That he considered was a subject for deliberate consideration ; but at the same time he felt that he had nothing to regret in the course that had been pursued, and that the suspension of the provisions of the Act, or the authority which had been given for that suspension, had been attended with the most beneficial results.— He believed that if any doubt prevailed as to the wis 41om of the course taken in this matter, there would be nothing like the unanimity of opinion which had been exhibited by their Lordships on the subject. He trusted this view would be confirmed by the Com mittee which he proposed, and which being fairly or ganised, and consisting as it would of individuals who had thought much on the subject, would, he was per suaded, do much to exchange that species of informa tion which was to be acquired on such a sub ject. The Bill to which he had alluded was not one calculated to lead to party discussions. He knew that sitting as he did on the benches opposite at the time it was first brought forward, he voted for it. He did so because he felt convinced of the great danger of allowing the inconvenience which had so often been felt from the former mode of conducting the affairs of the Bank to continue; and when the Go vernment of the day came forward with a measure to prevent the recurrence of the disorders which had before been experienced, he felt disposed to accept of their proposal and to give the measure a full and fair trial. He was sure the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Stanley) himself, a member of the Government by which the measure had been introduced, could not but feel some parental yearning towards his own offspring, and that notwithstanding all that had passed since,that time he would not now be found anxious to attack a measure which he had himself contributed to bring to life.—(llear, hear.) Having th us b r i e fly vindicated the course taken by her Majesty's Govern ment, he would leave the question in their Lordships' hands. He t would himself have perhaps wished that this inquiry had taken place at a somewhat later period, after the immediate tumult of the recent panic had subsided.—(Hear, hear.) But, at the same time, he trusted that the effects of the crisis would not last so long that their Lordships would not be enabled to give the coolest, as well as the fullest consideration to the subject of this inquiry. The Noble Marquis concluded by moving for the appointment of the Committee in the words of the notice, and resumed his seat amidst general applause. Lord STANLEY —While there are portions of the Noble Marquis's speech in which I am disposed alto gether to concur, and while I agree with him that this is not an occasion in which to enter into any extended discussion of the very large and complicated question, which is necessarily involved in the motion of the Noble Marquis, for the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the causes of the recent commercial distress, and its connexion with the laws affecting monetary regulations, I wish I could agree in what the Noble Marquis ap pears to anticipate—an almost unanimous feeling on the part of your Lordships in approbation of the course taken by her Majesty's Government with regard to this matter. My concurrence I undoubtedly give, cheerfully and readily, in the appointment of the Committee. If an inquiry before a Committee is the only course which her Majesty's Government are prepared to submit to the consideration of your Lordships and of Parliament on this subject, then I think, with all deference for the other House of Parliament, that such an inquiry should not be exclusively carried on before the House of Commons. I think that if an inquiry is to be insti tuted by Parliament, it is desirable that such an in quiry should be carried on simultaneously by your Lord ships' House and by the other House. With this view, and understanding that it had not been the intention of her Majesty's Government to propose to your Lordships the appointment of any committee of the description which the Noble Marquis now moves for, I felt it to be my duty, on a former evening, to give notice of my in tention to move for the appointment of this committee for the reasons I state. I wish I could say, which I cannot, that this, and this alone, was the course which her Majes ty's Government were in duty bound to pursue. Among the causes which were put prominently forward for the meeting of Parliament—and it was a cause which un doubtedly went home to the feelings of every man—l find that of the commercial distress under which the country has been suffering —a distress which I cannot agree with the Noble Marquis in calling recent, but which I would rather describe in the words of the speech from the Throne, " the distress that for some time has pre vailed among the commercial classes"—(Hear)—when that cause existed to an extent that, if the Legislature was to interfere at all, not only justified bat rendered necessary the calling together of Parliament im mediately and without loss of time; and I am sure none of your Lordships could consider that the inconvenience of being called together at this unusual period of the year is not more than the weight of a feather in the scale while any palliation of the sufferings of the coun try may be effected by our prompt interference—(Hear, hear)—when that distress has, I say, prevailed to a degree of intensity and magnitude which the Noble Marquis has very fat. from over-stated (but which I think he has under-stated in the statement that he has just made to your Lordships), and when it has been the cause of Parliament being called together, then I hold we had a right t o expect f rom her Majesty's Government that they should at least bo prepared to come forward with such measures as they think expedient for the pur pose, not of removing —for I agree with the Noble Marquis that that is beyond the power of any Parlia ment, or of any legislation—but of palliating the mag nitude of that distress which they put forward as the cause of calling Parliament together at an unusual and inconvenient period of the year.—(Hear, hear.) We have sat for fourteen days. It is now precisely fourteen days since Parliament was called together, and yet what does the Noble Marquis tell you? How stood the case ? After sitting fourteen days they were at length told by the Noble Marquis that, with re ference to - the cause of the distress, he was at present prepared with no observations; that, as to any remedy or palliative of the distress, neither he nor his colleagues had any suggestion to make; that they asked the House to grant them a committee of inquiry for their guidance; o fflae influence qe . ( nu ci se 1 I oe distinctly of r h h e he a B r, , at from no lkd c theirh Ea Charter rl oGArdrcestyhi)opfs ,FitBoh4ra4tthuacpsoNtnoottbhhlece and that as to op i nions of their own they had none to commercial distress of the country he wouldlexpress, and had, indeed, formed no opinion. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—Not as to its influence upon the distress of the past three or four months. Lord STANLEY—Why it was precisely that distress of the last three or four months that had called Parlia ment together at this unusually early period, and which formed eke immediate ocoasioa for the inquiry now sought,—(Hear, bear) Was it not most strange, then, that the Government should profess themselves wholly unprovided with an opinion upon this deeply im portant subject, should go into the Committee entirely uncommitted to any views, and even entirely free, and with a feeling, as far at least as the Noble Marquis was concerned, that it would be better to postpone the in • quiry itself until a much later period?—(Hear, hear.) It would have been far more satisfactory to their Lord ships, and to the country, had the Noble Marquis been prepared with an opinion one way or the other; at least, tending one way or t h e other. For himself, ie (Lord Stanley) should be sorry to have it understood as his opinion that the principle of the Bank Charter Act of 1844 had been productive of the recent distress. The question was, whether during the period of distress the restrictive clauses of the Act had aggravated the diffi culties of the commercial community. This was a point on which it appeared to him manifest that the Govern ment ought by this time to have formed an opinion. If that opinion was that the restrictions of the Act had not produced this effect then they ought openly and firmly to have declared their intention to adhere to the measure as it stands; if, as the course of their policy would seem to indicate, they thought that the restrictions were injurious in cases of pres sure, than they ought to have stated this opinion, and to have formed and expressed some intention accordingly. The Noble Marquis had referred to him as one of the framers of the Act of 1844. He had ne desire to shrink from any responsibility attaching to him as a member of that Government under whose administration that mea sure became law, and he would at the same time remind the Noble Marquis that several members of the present Government, and among them prominently the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, then acting as Chairman of the Committee on Banks of Issue, cordially concurred in the principle of the measure.—(Hear, hear.) But consistently with an entire adherence to the principle of the Act of 1844, as to the accuracy of which inquiry bad been exhausted, it was open to him to assent to an inquiry whether the restrictions imposed by the Act were un wise in themselves, or calculated in any way to fetter the discretion of the Bank in the exercise of its functions. This was the point, and the sole point, to which, as he conceived, the attention of the Committee would be directed, in reference to the influence of the Bank Charter of 1844 upon the late crisis. The question would be whether, with a million in their coffers, and the expectation of further supplies flowing in from abroad, the Bank directors were not injuriously restricted by the Act of 1844 from affording accommo dation to commerce.—(Hear, hear.) Upon this point the Noble Marquis professed himself unprovided with an opinion, though the letter of October 25 to the Bank directors would seem to indicate an opinion, and a pretty decided opinion, to have been formed on the subject by the Government.—(Hear, hear.) The course directed by that letter, and which might well have been adopted earlier—(Hear, hear)—was a distinct violation, a dis tinct condemnation, of the Act of 1844, in that feature of it which had been most insisted upon, but which the Government had thus declared could not, in their judg ment, be maintained in operation under all circum stances. The act of the Government, in fact, had re moved the very keystone of that beautifully symmetrical bridge to which Mr. Raikes Currie, in the debate on the measure, had likened it. He had said just now that Hon. Gentlemen had underrated the amount of commercial distress, and that he thought their earlier interference would have prevented much difficulty. Ile held in his hand a list of mer cantile houses which had actually become insolvent between July and November. The number amounted to 106. From the list was excluded all houses which had entered into private compositions with creditors—all failures on the Stock Exchange, which h a d b een ver y numerous—all houses whose accounts were not actually under inspection—and that included one firm whose lia bilities amounted to millions; it also excluded all foreign houses, and it omitted as insignificant all houses whose liabilities did not amount to 20,000/. Now what were the results? In July there were 2 failures amounting to .£llO,OOO August ~ 16 /I 2,369,000 September „ 26 6,520,000 October „ 35 " • 6,840,000 In all, from July to the perio d at which her Majesty's Government thought fit to interfere, there had been failures of seventy-nine houses involving liabilities to the amount of 15,969,0001.—(Hear, hear.) Now, he con curred with the Noble Marquis, that it was impossible for any Legislature or for any Government to have pre vented the distresses which had occurred from failures of agricultural products, or from rash speculation, but it was impossible but that among the gr eat h ouses which had fallen from July to November there must have been some which a more timely interference would have saved, and which being saved themselves might have prevented the ruin of many others dependent upon them. —(Hear, hear.) He had stated the liabilities of those which had failed. That was but a small part, however, of the distress which the panic had occasioned. Their Lordships knew the loss of those which had gone, but they knew nothing of the losses of houses that still stood, the extent of whose difficulties made it in many cases doubtful from day to day whether they could carry on their business, though it was certain that whether they carried it on or no, so immense a contraction of all their transactions must take place as greatly to cripple any of the firms with which they had connexion. And here he must observe that her Majesty's Government thought right upon the present occasion to use the word "recent," as applicable to the commercial distress. Now, the us( of that word implied that the distress had passed by, and though the Bank of England might be in a better con dition than it was, yet so far from the distress having passed by, he should be glad to find himself mistaken in his apprehension that the worst and severest pressure was yet to c'me. As yet they had no accounts from India of a date subsequent to the arrival of the news of the great metropolitan failures ; and if he was to believe all the accounts he heard, three months would not elapse without accounts from Calcutta of great embarrassments and disasters, occasioned by the receipt of the intelligence. From this time to January, too, the merchants of London and of Manchester would be receiving back from India bills drawn upon th e houses in England that had failed. The effects of the panic, moreover, had as yet scarcely reached the smaller merchant, the retail tradesman, and still less the la bourer dependent on those whose capital was now so greatly diminished. It was his fear that they would soon find a large proportion of these thrown out of em ployment, in which case great and increasing distress was to be feared. The Noble Marquis had said that the inquiry into which he invited them to enter would be a narrow one. Narrow I what, when all these points were to be inquired into ; when the subject was the effect of the recent commercial panic—the part which the Bank Charter Act had had in bringing it about—the influences of railway speculation and of overtrading—the conduct of the Bank—the results of a free trade policy I Narrow Why, if this inquiry was narrow, he should wish to know what the Noble Marquis would consider extensive ? So far from the inquiry being narrow, it was his opinion that, however long th e cr i s i s might last, however protracted it might still prove, yet that it would be over long before this Committee would be in a position to make a report or even to offer a suggestion. From the tone of the Noble Marquis, indeed, he was almost led to infer that as far as the Government were con cerned the report of the Committee would be a very unimportant one. They would state that they had been sorry to hear of the magnitude of the distress and of its wide-spread r amifications, but that nothing, in their opinion, would have prevented the infliction of a bad harvest or the ill effects of over -trading, and that as for the Act of 1844, nothing had been proved against it. That appeared, as far as the Government went, to be likely to be the result of their Committee of Inquiry. One word before ho sat down as to a matter requiring explanation. The Noble Marquis had said, in the course of the evening, that no legislation could make up for the loss in the supply of the agricultural produce of the country, which had led to the necessity of importing foreign corn. IT —e (Lord Stanley) concurred in that opinion. An importation of foreign corn to the value of 33 millions, for the purpose of making good the supply which had failed us in our own production, was a loss of national capital which could not fail to cause us great embarrassment. But the Noble Marquis misunderstood him, if he supposed that he (Lord Stanley) attributed to free trade the large importation in corn which had taken place during the last two years. On the con trary, ho had said that whether they had free trade or not the importation must have taken place ; but the argument he maintained was this, that whereas those who advocated free trade predicted from the importation a large export of manufactures and consequent great national prosperity, he maintained that these effects had arisen without reference to free trade. The Noble Mar quis said that Parliament could not guard against the effects of speculation. He (Lord Stanley) gr an t e d th a t ; but, speaking of corn, let him ask by whose act and en couragement was it that the speculation in corn was Majesty's Govern men t, h e must excited ?e, not Of clear. Th ey erMaj say, wer e held out to our merchants and shipowners that, let them search all the world through, they would not find corn enough for the people of England—and that if they could find corn enough they would not be able to find freights to bring it Why, they bad absolutely here. suspended the navigation laws in order to tempt e—in order to ink all the world to this rash and dan gerous our shores laden with grain of every their e vesse ls e s peculati o n"—in l a t i send gerou t s h species. Why, was it not too much to turn round on us after this, and sa y that it is impossible to guard against improvident speculations ?—(Opposition cheers.) But he need trespass on their patience no further. Her Majesty's Government had thought it right that this important question should be thr own loosely ma the Legislature as a m atter for Parliamentary inquiry. He (Lord Stanley) thought it was their duty rather to have propos d e to Parliament a remedy for th ese ev i ls. They had, however, shrunk from any such course. Having done so, they must, of coarse, take the consequences. He (Lord Stanley) gave no notice now, but the Govern ment having announced that the appointment of the Committee was the only mea'ure they were prepared to propose to Parliament on this all - important question, they must not be surprised if from other quarters, lot pledged or bound by ties of official duty, they found some practical measures suggested calculated more di rectly to meet the difficulties of the emergency. (The Noble Lord resumed his seat amidst much Opposition cheering.) Earl GREY commenced by replying to the Noble Lord's inquiry, " Why, if the Government had no mea sure to propose, t h e y had thou g ht i t necessary to call the Parliament together?" If the Noble Lord had con sulted her Majesty's Speech at the commencement of the session he would have found in it that the Government, though they saw no remedy that they could advanta geously suggest, still had ample reasons for summoning the Parliament. The suffering had proceeded from measures over which they had no control, and the con • h it was utterly impossible for them to sequences of wh ic h But avert. the Government bad taken a measure which might have led to a violation of the law, and no Go vernment had any right to take a measure of that kind without giving Parliament the earliest opportunity cf expressing its judgment. No Act of indemnity, indeed, was necessary, but such measures as the Government itpaight necessary to be introduced not only were pre pared, but they absolutely had already submitted himselfthem rig toP h a t rliament. If th e N o bl e L )r d was as to the causes of commercial distress, it was clear there was no measure more important as a means of preventing the continuance of the distress than some Bill which postponed for a season all demands consequent upon railway transactions. The Government had submitted to Parliament a Bill with that very view, and had pro posed to go as far as it was possible to go consistently with justice and a respect for existing contracts. But the Noble Lord complained that no opinion had been expressed by the Government relative to the Act of 1844. That accusation was surely hardly well deserved. The Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) had said distinctly that, in his opinion, the distress was not attributable to the Act of 1844, and in that view he (Earl Grey) was glad to find that the Noble Lord opposite entirely con . curred with him. The Government were not, of course. prepared to maintain that the existing arrangements under the Act of 1844 were p er f ect; b ut when the Noble Lord said that that Act must be faulty because Govern ment had permitted its infringement, he (Earl Grey) was at once prepared to express his dissent from any such view. As had been well said in 1844, whilst it might be difficult to define where they might depart from the principle established by the Act, yet, extra ordinary circumstances might arise from time to time which would be best dealt with at the discretion ef Government. He (Earl Grey), too, dissented from the view of the Noble Lord that the adoption of the Government measure of relief at all necessarily implied that it should have been done earlier. On the contrary. he (Earl Grey) thought that it should be deferred until the last moment. The Noble Lord referred to the list of failures. No one lamented them more than he did. The calamities were, no doubt, very sad, and almost unpa ralleled. But, at the same time, it was the opinion of the Committee that the houses which had failed, whether from imprudence or misfortune, were not really solvent; that assistance might have maietained th em for a time, but that ultimately the failure was inevitable. That was the state of things in the earlier period of the panic. At the end of October, however, all accounts showed that though these failures had not then extended to sol vent houses, yet that these would fail if some measures were not taken by the Government. The panic was then so serious that many were unable to realise money to meet their immediate demands. There was a desire among the bankers and the public to retai n th e money they happened to possess, and to get in all their outstanding debts. It was obvious that the whole system of our commercial distress proceeded in an assumption that there would be no simultaneous call for money. There was such a call. The Government were told that if an assurance were given that money might be had even at a very high rate of interest, that would bring into circulation money that had formerly been withheld. Such an opinion was expressed to the Government from quarters deserving the highest consi deration; the Government believed it to be well founded; they acted upon it, and he (Earl Grey) must say that he thought the result proved that they had not been mistaken. The Noble Lord said that this was a ques• tion they ought not to turn loose for the consideration of a Committee, but that, on the contrary, they ought to nave made some definite proposal with respect to the Act of 1844. Certainly, if the Government had believed that any alteration of the Act of 1844 was calculated to check the commercial distress, he (Earl Grey) agreed that they ought to have done something ; but their opinion was the reverse; their opinion was, that though that Act might require alteration in some parts, yet that its main principles are undoubtedly sound, and that to teach the commercial community to look for relief to what was called " relaxation of the currency," would be to teach them in fact to look to a deception. It was not to devise any remedy of that kind that the Government now asked for the appoint ment of a Committee. What they desired was to see if the Act of 1844 was in its details susceptible of improve ment. One set of persons contended that the Govern ment under that Act ought to be invested with a greater amount of discretion. Others thought that the prin ciple of the Act was not carried sufficiently far, and that too much power was still left in the hands of the Bank of England. It was only fitting that Parliament should appoint a Committee to consider these and such like propositions. The Noble Lord intimated an opi nion that the commercial distress of the country had not passed by. He (Earl Grey) wished he could take a different view. He was bound, however, to admit that it seemed to him that of the many causes pro ductive of distress there were several still in opera tion, and that they must look forward to still further depression. But, however gloomy the im mediate appearances might be, there was nothing in the state of the country which ought to discourage us, or cause us to fear that at some earlier or more re mote period the country would not, by its inherent vigour and energy, emerge from all its difficulties, and rise to prosperity even greater than before.—(Cheers.) Various causes had been adverted to for the distress, but amongst others the Noble Lord had omitted to men lion the high expenditure, arising from a high price of provisions, which had affected every family, from the highest to the lowest, in the land, during the past twelve months. When they remembered that for some time last season wheat was at 80s., 905., 100 s., and even 120 s. per quarter, they might find some ground for con sidering that an important element of the distress had been omitted from the Noble Lord's catalogue. When they considered how this had added to the expenditure of every family in the country, and especially of the working classes, and the enormous drain from railway and other causes, they would not feel surprised at diffi cu!ties which had been experienced. But they had just had a good harvest, and it blessed with a recurrence of favourable seasons, the greatest of all drains, that arising from a scarcity of corn, would be at an end. And although railways undoubtedly formed a great drain at that moment, yet it must be remembered that when con structed they would add incalculably to the national wealth. On this account, and having regard to the improved prospects as regarded the supply of cotton from America, he thought that at no distant day this country would again attain her wonted prosperity. His Noble Friend said that the expense of the last year, and the distress occasioned by the largo imports of corn, went far to strengthen the arguments of those who had been opposed to the repeal of the corn-laws. Now, he must say that his (Earl Grey's) opinion was precisely the reverse. He could not conceive a combination of circumstances which would more completely confirm the soundness of all the arguments of those who had advo cated a free importation of foreign corn. In the first place, he would ask their Lordships to consider what must have been the sufferings of the population if this importation had not taken place?—(Hear, hear.) As it was, they knew that the sufferings endured by the working classes, in the months of June and July, were of the severest description ; but it was nothing but the free importation of corn which prevented those sufferings from proceeding to the extent of starvation. —(Hear, hear.) If, when the neighbouring countries of Europe were suffering, equally with our own, and when, instead of exporting corn for us, they were bidding against us in the markets of the world, we had been left to the former law, under which a heavy forfeit was imposed on the merchant who went to the most dis tant market for cargoes, starvation would have been experienced amongst no small proportion of the popula tion.—(Hear ' hear.) His Noble Friend then went on to say that it bad formerly been asserted that if they im ported large quantities of corn there would be a large increase in the exports to pay for it. It was perfectly true that the exports had fallen off: a fact easily ac counted for by the diversion of a large portion of the capital of this country to railways, by the deficiency in the cotton crop, and by various other causes. In point of fact, however, in the case of those countries from which the largest supplies of corn were obtained, there had been an increase in the amount of exports.—(Hear, hear.) In the three-quarters ending October, 1646, the exports to America amounted to 4,050,0001; while, within the same period in 1847, they amounted to 6,291,0004—(11ear, hear.) But, beyond that, it was notorious that one effect of the large de mands of corn from Americahad been to increase the con sumption of British manufactured goods in the United States to an extent which could hardly have been ex pected. The American farmers, making increased pro fits, had increased their expenditure, and a considerable portion of the increase had been applied in the purchase of British manufactures. A similar result had been witaessed in the Turkish empire and in Brazil, in the latter case owing, of course, to the increased import of sugar. It must not be forgotten. when this question was under consideration, that a large proportion of our ex ports was necessarily affected by the distress which pre vailed in Europe generally.—(Hear, hear.) The popu lation of the countries with which we principally dealt was almost as severely affected by the high price of food as our own; it was impossible that the inhabitants of Holland, Germany. and France, who were paying extra vagant prices for their food, could consume the cus tomary amount of British manufactures? He (Earl Grey) was not aware that those speculations were inor dinate---(Hear, hear)—he very much doubt e d w h et h er they had exceeded what prudence required. No doubt some individuals had incurred heavy losses ; but for the interest of the country the importations had not been excessive. For some weeks before the harvest the weather was fine to a degree which was almost unexampled ; and the harvest, which every one thought would be made, proved, on the contrary, early. Had the harvest been three or four weeks later than usual, there would not have been a single grain of corn in the country to spare.—(Hear, hear.) He believed that, as a whole, the operations of the British merchants in the corn trade, during the last year, were marked by a degree of foresight, which was not less remarkable than the energy and activity displayed in them—an energy and an activity which, under Providence, had been the means of saving the country from the horrors of famine, and which showed with how much justice her Majesty's Government had, in the early part of last ses sion, refused to interfere with the enterprise of the pri vate n tr i a f de th r by e cornsending speculation ships hadAm America a n fo in r o c rd or in n a . te', l3 h u e t might still thorn . contend Ai t hthatattht Choy had G ov Government e w n a t s h t a o ask dnot ariaencou raged c a o w u s l d a a n n d y one e dot established by the Act of went to suspend the naivBi4g6a;tiaound that both those suspensions were necessary? lle, for been n ed t t o o ta p i r l o y p u o n s e wort what h thToefy theirh ad if f regarded the question befor e th e H ouse, posit on doneel ,t ion.fetlthey A that ws u t l h d ey have had he thought, for the reasons stated by his Noble Friend near him, it was highly proper that the House should appoint the proposed Committee. Lord BROUGHAM said that, although the question of free trade might be excluded from that discussion, it could not be shut out f rom t h e del i berations of the Com mrstgahreoi l s y_ ea be pr i o t p t wn e ot e asryeo w dd h url ipc i n e ee h qdc uu. il t ra h ytT e i y oht nhe sew inquiry wholeci a rh b yg o hu u wea t osdut oo a d n b a s a w o p l also e l n d d m t bisliorea cie I l e l oast ° the portion of the capital of the country, and the evils of which might justly be imputed, in a great degree, to the Legislature itself. He would much rather provide for the present than scan the past; yet he could not help saying that if there were any parties in the Legis lature whose consciences were free from blame upon that question, it was the Noble Duke then sitting at the table (the Duke of Wellington), and himself (Lord Brougham). Another subject which would be taken up was that of the usury laws, the state of which was very injurious to the landed interest, in consequence of the partial repeal of some enact ments and the retention of others. Unless some thing were speedily done to improve those laws there was the prospect, if not of great agricultural distress, at least of landowners' embarrassment,. There would, in fact, be so many subjects introduced into the inquiry, that having been delayed so long he thought it should be delayed still longer. It was not likely that any measure, founded on the report of the Committee, could be framed and introduced before Easter. Why, it would be im possible to keep out of view even the question of a metallic currency. There were many persons who thought that it was not Sir Robert Peel's Bill of 1844, but his Bill of 1819, which was chargeable with all the distress of the country.—(A Noble Lord cried " Hear, hear.") The Noble Lord who thus responded himself afforded an illustration of what he was saying. He con gratulated the House upon the absence of party feeling on this question; and as regarded the commercial pres sure, although the worst might be over, yet ho thought the evil was by no means at an end. The Duke of GRAFTON was of opinion that the only hope for the country lay in an enlargement of the currency. Lord ASHBURTON hoped in the other House of Parliament, where subjects of this kind more properly came under discussion, some proposition would be made for a direct interference with that Act which was sup- I posed to have operated so very injuriously. The Noble Earl opposite (Earl Grey) had referred to the subject of the corn-laws, and there seemed to exist some mis taken impression in his mind as to what had been said by a Noble Friend near him (Lord Stanley) on a former occasion on that subject.—(Hear, hear.) Nobody, he be lieved, had said that the corn-laws were the cause of the present distress, but the state of the importation of corn had certainly a great deal to do with it, though not to the extent supposed, for he did not believe the doctrine that, because a certain quantity of corn had been im ported within the last eighteen months, that therefore the capital of the country had been taken for that pur pose; he meant that capital of the country the abstrac tion of which was said to be one of the difficulties under which they at present labour.—(Hear, hear.) He would remind their Lordships that one of the great objections to the late sliding scale was the fluctuation of the price.—(Hear.) They might mitigate that fluctuation by supporting their own agriculture, and taking care that a large portion of the corn consumed was of their own production, and if they wanted to derive any lesson from the past year more impressive than another, let them reflect upon the consequences of their lowering their own agricultural production, always supposing the change of the law had a tendency of that kind. He did not think that that subject would have been so strongly pressed upon their attention by the Noble Earl (judging from his general acuteness in debate), if he had had anything of con sequence to present to their Lordships on the subject under deliberation. If he had any forcible arguments to urge lon that subject) he would not have gone into a plausible discussion on the operation of the corn-laws. —(Hear, hear.) The great importation of corn had certainly affected the balance of trade, it had rendered necessary the exportation of a quantity of specie, and it had caused the reduction of the amount of specie in the Bank, and had tended to produce ' that restriction which was the main cause of their difficulties. The Noble Earl opposite had said that the Act of 1844 was not the cause of them, but he (Lord Ashburton) would say that the Act of 1144 had I aggravated other circumstances.—(Hear, hear.) Those circumstances, which without the Act of 1844 would not present any difficulties, were transformed into difficulties by that Act.—(Hear, hear.) Reference had been made I to the difficulties which had been occasioned by the 'con struction of railways, but he (Lord Ashburton) would ' ask, had not Parliament been mimed of the danger arising from them?—(Hear.) It did not become him (Lord Ashburton) perhaps to say so, but he would re mind them that their Lordships did not attend to the warnings which he (Lord Ashburton) had given them on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) He had pressed those warnings upon their Lordships, and upon a Committee of their Lordships' House, and had likewise urged them on the consideration of the Earl of Dalhousie. That Noble Lord was as strongly impressed with a sense of those difficulties as he (Lord Ashburton) was, and when they went into Committee he prepared a scale of those different projects for railroads for the express pur pose of limiting the total amount. It was con sidered by them that to engage in undertakings beyond the power of the country to effect was objectionable, and though it might be urged that th e y we r e pr o fit a bl e to the country, inasmuch as they absorbed a great deal of labour, they should recollect that the most useful enter prises, if carried on with insufficient means, must fail, as they had seen them fail on the present occasion. —(Hear, hear.) He did not know enough of the details of the West India houses to say whether they had been ad vancing too liberally or extensively in the course of their business, but they had been utterly destroyed by their Act of Parliament.—(Hear, hear,) It was not true to say this was the work of Providence; a great portion of it was the work of their own hands. It was considered that a very great cause of these commercial difficulties arose from overtrading, and it was conceived that some of the India houses had overtraded. Certain houses in this country sent out their manufactures to India, and a largo portion of the trade was carried on on credit. He believed, in fact, that a great deal too much of it had been carried on on credit. But that was no new system; it was not the system of last year, or the year before last, but the trade was going on for twenty years exactly in the same way. The persons engaged in that trade were told all at once that no credit was to be given to them, and those persons were thrown upon their backs ; but it was no improvidence that had caused them to become embar rassed ; they had carried on that trade for a long time, but the altered state of the money laws had rendered it impossible fur them to continue it.—(Hear, hear.) He apprehended that the commercial character of the country was injured from one end of the globe to the other, whereas in former times it was looked upon throughout the world as the greatest. To show the evil effeota resulting from it, he begged to read a few lines from a circular which happened to fall into his hands, and which came from a house in New Orleans. It was dated the ;6th November, and hero was what was stated in this printed circular :—" The continued disas trous advices from England, and the discredit thrown on the English people, have almost suspended opera tions with Great Britain." Undoubtedly their Lord ships could not help that, but it was for their Lord ships to consider whether these misfortunes had arisen from their interference. He conceived it was proved beyond possibility of contradiction that they may have arisen from the operations of the Bank of England, and these operations arose from the restric tions they had put upon it by the Act of 1844. He would remind ther Lordships that there had been a considerable importation of corn to France, but yet there had been no destruction of commercial credit in that country. The Bank of France had not refused to perform the ordinary operations of business, or taken it into their heads to refuse that accommodation which in other times they had given. When they were reduced so lowas not to have scarcely two millions in their coffers, they went on giving the usual credit to the ordinary trade of the country. The Bank of France, with those means at their disposal, caused no disturbance of the general credit of the country, and he understood that through out France the general commercial interests of the country were going on as usuaL (Hear, hear.) The Government had put upon the Bank of England the necessity of laying on 8 per cent., and that proceeding seemed to him to be most ab surd. The Government, in giving that instruction, must be totally ignorant of the nature of the trade that was carried oa. A merchant of Birmingham had mentioned to him a fact which would show the effect of that measure. He said he had a very valuable order to execute, and went to a banker to obtain assist ance in the usual way to enable him to do it. The banker said yes to his application, but added, " the Bank of England discount at eight per cent., and I must have seven per cent." The merchant replied that that would bo more than ho should make by the order.—(Hear, hear.) He (Lord Ashburton) considered that they should suspend this Act, and then consider what other form of restriction they should adopt. In former times, with five or six millions in the Bank, they entertained no appre hension, and freely assisted the commerce of the country; but recently, with eight millions in their hands, they were afraid to do so, and did not assist the commerce of the country. But of what were they afraid ? They were afraid of violating the Act of Parliament. He had recently a letter from a banker in the country, who told him they were rising up their interest to nine per cent. He held that to be destructive of the industry of the country. He thought that it could not move under such a rate of discount, and that it was a mistaken mode of getting out of their embarrassments. The Bank ofEng; Eng land was at liberty to issue a certain amountof no to te without question, and so many ore the amount of bullion in the Bank.m according/ he n there was a diminution of coin one wou ld think there should be an additional circulation ofpass cramped paper. But no, on the contrary, when the circulation by a reduction of coin, there was at the same time a di minution of paper. As to the general question he was a a nd carefully very well satisfied that it . s o n u o g u h l d t proceeding inquired into, for t he tn hat such would very probably e attended with beneficial results. The first thing, however, that the Committee would have to do, was to dispose of the Act of 1844.—(Hear.) It had got a fair trial and was found defective. The Earl of EGLINTON was well aware the inquiry about to be instituted must of necessity be an exten sive ono, but was anxious to know by what limits its extent was to be circumscribed. lie desired to be informed whether it was in contemplation that the Scottish banking Acts of '45 and '46 should be inquired into, as well as the Act of '44? In a report of a speech delivered by a Right Honourable G un .. tloman, in another place, he found that it h a d b een stated that: wh a t h a d mainly induced the Government to interfere with the great prin c ipl e o f the Act of 1844, was that an application for assistan ce h a d b een ma d e to the Bank of England on_ behalf of a l arge p or ti on o f t h e Scottish banks. N was a mistake. _ _ Now, he was inclined to think that this Though n o t p ersona ll y connec t e d w ith banking, he had an accurate knowledge of many of the Scottish banks, and he was perfectly convinced that " a large portion" of them had not applied to the Bank of England for assistance. There were 18 banks in Scot land, and he was confident that not more than a very small portion of them had made any such application. Indeed, he was strongly inclined to think that the ap plication was restricted to two establishments, and that one of them was a modern one. The Marquis Of T. AMDOWNE replied, that a l amugh no allusion to the subject %`a; comprised in the exact terms of the resolution, it nevertheless was to be u.lder stood th a t t h e i nqu i ry should include, if necessary , the Acts rel a ti ng to the Scottish banks. The Comttohttee would exercise their diseretion in the matter. Lord WHARNCLIFFE was of opinion that there should be a distinct understanding as to the footing on which Parliament was to stand with respect to the Bank. It would be well to know whether, in case that the result of the i nqu i ry should be ' to recommend the introductionof alter a ti ons i nto the constitution of the Bank, Parliament would feel itself at liberty to act ac— cordingly, and also whether the Bank had given an as surance that it would acqui esce i n such alteration. For his own part he did not hesitate to say that in spite sf all he had heard to the prejudice of the Act of 1844, he still adhered to the principle of the measure. Lord STANLEY suggested that the resolution should be amended by using the express wo r d s o f the Quven's Speech in defining the duties of the committee. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE acquiesced. Motion agreed to. Their Lordships rose at a Quarter past Nine o'clock. METROPOLITAN SEWERS COM- MISSION. The several Commissions of Sewers are renewable every ten years. Four commissions—the Westminster District, the Holborn and Finsbury, the Tower Hamlets,. and the Poplar Districts—expire this month. The Metropolitan Commissioners of Inquiry have, in their first report, which has been laid before her Ma jesty's Government, and will be to-day presented to Par liament, strongly recommended, on several grounds, that the whole of the commissions under the power of the Crown should be resumed, and the authority placed in few hands. In compliance with this request writs of supersedeas were i ssue d on Tuesday from the Crown offi .ce Chancery to the Commissioners of the several commissions above mentioned, and also to the Commissioners for Kent an d S urrey and t h e Commissioners for Greenwich, the principal sorer districts on the south side of the river. It is no.- derstood that, on a consultation with the law officers of the Crown, they recommended, on technical grounds of arrangements entered into under some local Acta, that the objects of the Commissioners would be gained by renewing the commissions of sewers for the several districts having the same body of persons named for all the districts. This has been done, and the commissions formerly held by between 600 and 700 persons, have been separately directed, as the Sanitary Commissionara requested, to a more limited number of persons, chiefly of those who have paid especial attention to the subject of sanitary improvement. The renewed commission. are understood to be provisional. The following is the list of names of the noblemen and gentlemen as they stand in the several commissions, which were all issued yesterday:— The Right Hon. the Viscount Morpeth, M.P. The Right Hon. Lord Ashley, M.P. The Right Hon. the Viscount Ebrington, M.P. The Hon. Frederick Byng. The Dean of Westminster. Sir James Clark, Bart. Sir Edward North Buxton, Bart., M.P. Sir Henry Thomas de la Beebe, Knight. Joseph Hume, Esq., M.P. John Walter, Esq., M.P. Robert Aglionby Slaney, Esq., M.P. Edwin Chadwick, Esq., barrister-at-law. William John Broderip, Esq., barrister-at-law. John Bullar, Esq., barrister-at-law. Professor Richard Owen, Neil Arnott, Esq., M.D. Thomas Southwood Smith, Esq., M.D. The Rev. William Stone, M.A., Rector of Spit/afield., John Bidwell, Esq. Robert Hutton, Esq., F.R.S. Thomas Puckle, Esq. Richard Lambert Jones, Esq. John Leslie, Esq. The number of Commissioners for the sewer districts was as follows: Westminster Commission Holborn and Finsbury ... Never acted Tower Hamlets Never acted Surrey and Kent Poplar ... Greenwich ... 134 87} 195 48 124 1 176 52 .. 36 ... 116 671 :The number of the Consolidated Commission is only 23. ALTERATION OF CLOCKS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. An occurrence of considerable importance in a national point of view took place on the Ist of December, when the mails and other trains between London, Liverpool, Manchester, and the north, were, in consequence of the completion of the through communication, placed upon the Trent Valley line, instead of going round by Bir mingham. On this occasion, by order of the directors of the London and North-Western, with the concurrence, it is understood, of the Railway Commissioners and the Post-office authorities, the clocks at every station on the London and North-Western, the Midland, Birmingham, and Gloucester, and other lines, were set to Greenwich time. It was at first proposed, in order to obtain the communication of true time, a practice new daily adopted at Greenwich for indicating it, that a ball should be dropped from the upper part of the Observatory so as to touch a spring communicating with all the telegraphic wires in the kingdom, and thus by the striking of h-11 give instantaneous true time to Liverp.).l and Man chester, and all the northern towns. The telegraph could thus from day to day supply any want of uniformity; but owing to the wires not being completed, and not communicating with every station, the design was found impracticable. Iu default of this another plan was resorted to yesterday—that of bending special messengers, each having a chronometer indicating true Greenwich time, to the several divisions of the London and North-Western and Midland systems, so that Green wich and London time, in the course of the day, was communicated and established at every station on these lines, the stations amounting to between two hundred and three hundred, and affecting all the principal towns and cities between London and Carlisle and London and York. The authorities of the Post-office have given official notification to the local postmaster at Liverpool I* adjust the post-office clock there in accordance with London time, and it is intended that the same shall be the case at Manchester. The Post-office mails are always regulated according to London and not to load time, and the present alteration is found to be expedient in consequence of the inconvenience asserted to arise from the fact of every separate town having its own time with reference to the longitude of the particular place B. or W. of Greenwich. The promoters of the measure state that to railways the old system of keeping time has been a positive annoyance, from each town or stopping place between London and Holyhead having its appro priate time. The Post-office sends its mandate for the dispatch of a new mail from Holyhead :at midnight on Wednesday, but owing to the arrangement of " local times," midnight on Wednesday at Ilolyhead is morning of Thursday in London. A similar discrepancy a. to time exists in all the intermediate places. As regards railway travelling, one of the consequences of keeping " local time" is found to be, that an express train on a journey of 250 miles is 6:} hours from E. to W., and less than if from W. to ; and though the speed in travelling is really the same in both instances, by the time-table it is made tcp appear 33 miles per honr from W. to E., and less than 39 from E. to W. The chief object of the proposed alteration is stated to be that of rendering the move ments of the railway system more precise as to London time, and of enabling travellers from the East and from the West meeting at some common centre, each with a time-piece in his pocket, to be able to keep their ap pointments without first consulting the longitude of the town clock. The municipal autlioritiea and others, who have the charge of clocks in various parts of the island, intend, we perceive by the provincial papers, to " 4 " just them to the London time as nearly as the re sent incomplete arrangements will admit of. The sys tem pursued at Manchester is thus explained in the Manchester Guardian of yesterday:—The difference of longitude between Greenwich and Manchester is 2 de grees and 14 minutes in space, or 8 minutes and 56 seconds in time; and as the only means of ascertaining with facility, at Manchester, what is the time at Green wich, is by an eclipse of one of Jupiter's satellites; any difficulty of difference of opinion about time might easily be settled, if an order were passed for the clocks_ to ey be kept 8 minutes and 56 seconds before mean so lar - L or any number of minutes that may b weeklybo circumstances, f u th s e ta M nc an es c , Manchester Royal hat o;upon t clocks in thatat I n firmary agreed have, under these institution shall b© kept 10 a tapproximationa A t n o Almanac. the Otime th e at ' ante s before mean solar n v b e e n a in clo th se e2vau wich, as G tim re e en railway it has been arra n g e d to transm it exactly at siren the Green w i c h time to Manch e ster by electric telegraph o'clock this (Wednesday) morning. The station clerks at Rugby, Normanton, and Manchester are to be on the alert at ten minutes before seven; and the left needle on the London instrument is to be held pointing to the icttes ti t e E t t , thaecotleyedatiethise t i o ns b t e an r t el o e f as s e e d v , en an o d 'c w lof Ilkr,etitrs to Green wichits ordinary upright position. T he clerk at Ru g by w ill instantly, on receivin g t hi s signa l, release the needle for Normanton, and th e clerk will as promptly communicate it to Manchester; so t hat not more than t w o or three seconds can p oss ibl y l ost in transmitti ng the time from London to be Manchester When all th e electric wires are complete, and the local clocks correctly set, there will be a simultaneous striking of hours throughout the country - - SIRS. TROLLOPSS Nay NOVEL, "TOWN Algli COUNTRY."—We are inclined to consider " Town and Country," as the most agreeable, if not the ablest, of Mrs. Trollope's novels. The characters are natural and unexaggerated, the subject is well-chosen, and the story skilfully conducted. The young and beautiful daughter of a Cornwall clergyman is married to an old fellow, who plays off her charms at court for the advancement of his own ambition. Perfectly innocent at heart, she micon • sciowly suffers herself to be made an instru ment i n the hands of her husband to attract the regarcEi of the Prince Regent. There is considerable delicacy as well as clev erness in the management of this imbroglio, and great merit in the conduct of the scenes in which the Prince is involved. The picture of the vicar's family—the induc tion of his daughter into the ways of fashionable life and the simplicity with which she drops into the lures by which she is surrounded, contrasted with the energy of her deliverance are excel. lent, and display insight into springs of character and emotion which could hardly have been no successfully dealt with by a writer of the other sex- The sketch of the Prince Regent is capital. The experiment gerous, but it is made safe by to and deztArity....4ll44