The Sun. — London, England, 1804-07-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLMMENT. ROUSE OF PEERS. FRIDAY, JULY 13. • Coo ust t.were heard in continuation, and finally, relative to the Scotch'. Appeal, Arita 'v. Kerr and others,. lVlessa. ALUNA.NDES. and NOWLAND for the Respondents, and Mr. ROMILLY, for the Appellant, in reply. , The farther Consideration of the. case was adjourned till Monday. - The Civil List RegulatiOn Bill, the, Ordnance Officers' Franking, and the Irish Promissory Notes Bill, were brought up . ,from the Commons by Mr. At,exANDea, and severally read a first time. Sir J. W. Atvop.aspri presented ,the Poultry Compter Bill ; which was also read ' a first . time ; as were one or two Ptivate Bills, brought up by Mr. Sriturr, and other Gentlemen. The Bills upon the Tal,le were forwarded in their respeCtive stages, among these; the Irish Additional Defence, the Chatham Land Bill, and a few others, were read a third time, and passed. LONDON INCUMBENTS' BILL. On the Report of the London Incumbents! Relief Bill, which: had been referred to the consideration of a Private ComMittee in the first instance, • • Thia LORD, CH,IN(,"ELL,OR took occasion to snake a' • few observitions uponnthe general spbjeft of the Bill. The measure was so much of a pub, lic nature, that he •thought it should be 'subinitted to a Committee of the whole 1-louse. The ame. iioroion of the, situation of the Ministers or Re. ligiun t was an object near to his heart, and when. ever that was proposed, his internal struggle would be great in any case, whether paramount consitlera. tiaras called upon him to be adverse. The Bill, in its present shape, deserved the most serious cunsi. derarion-'of the House, in which there already, - he understood, prey , ailed a very itufmtant difference of opinion as to the propriety of the measure. 'His Lord ship then entered into some , detailed considerations of the various modes by which certain descriptions of the London Ciergy were remunerated from the time of the departure from the original mode of Tythes ; in the course of which he observed, that catculating that rh , ;de of cotopensatitin at the rate.of 2i. 9d. in the putiod, they would receive inure than )alb the proyisionS of the in question. jn con sidering the ineaSitie, regat4 shut4d he had to the point, whether the original regulations were made by the j,egislature' with the Consent of the. patties in. terested, or 14 - the mode of compulsion ?. Above he thought, the principle' of property should be se. rionsly i“Tt.io.view, and 450, Low fa, tiding upon such a..prineiple,as was Lid . c,wn by the Bill, would vot () F en the ho t to kipllie„,at3ons to the Logislature frOm every Incumbent in the kicgdom, wl»se duties tally be it , crease,d, without what he in3y tlinilt o*tir portionwe' increase of remuneration. Aker a shv'rs private Co . nference . between one of two of their Lord‘hips, and .two Reverend. Pre. rest the l Lotto CHANCEI4.OU. moved that the Bill be re-committed to a Committee of the whole House an Nicipday next which was ordered accordingly. 'Some routine business was then 'disposed of. After which their Lordships . adjourned till to-morrow, when the Royal Assent will be given by Commie stoop to certain Bills. LIQ USE OP COMMONS. VRIDAY, lULY 13. . _ The Loyalty Loan Bill was read a second time, peel continitted for tp.tnurrow. ' On the Motion for the, •second reading of the Poultry Cornier Bill, the Srquottd observed, that, oc:cording to the langu4ge of the I - louse, this wss iltivati dill!, and as s uch an interval. of three days was required between each successive stage of it. thought, lic)wever, that this was a Bill SO public 5n its nature, and so necessary, that the House would be disposed to dispense with the standing order of Inc Howe. and allow the Bill tti proceed now.-- The . Bill was accordinglyt read 4 secoo4 titne, COM. !pitted, reported, and - piissed. The London Pek_inanent Additional 1 7,, rce Bill, the Chapel , Marriage Bill, and the Property Tax Coanniiioners Bill, went through a Coinrpiee; tlie Repos to be received to.moirow. • The Consolidated Food Bill, and the Tanners Edi were repotted, and ordered to be read a third time to•raurrow. • The Resoluiions of the Committee on the Irish Newloondiand Trade were reported, agreed to, and tit c.:;orntnittee on the ititdt Revenue Ri::gulation 441 wrdcred rb Ineike pro;iiitm'aCCottlingly, • IRISH !iPIP.ITS. Mr. 'Po tit moved the Order, which had dropped ye:itettLiy in consequence •of the thinness of the tio t w, 1. - .)r the second reading of the Bill fot Ware- Ilime.made Spirits in Ireland. itrtc.'lltNstlN sail, he held in his hand a Petition from Richard 'l'. Blunt, for himleif and Others, pistilleri of the City of Cork, praying to be heard by thealseres or Counsel against this .Bill. The ti.i.t , ipr.ra Stated, that •it' was a Petition gainst a Tali %11, it was . contrary to the standing orders to tr:etive it. The Petition being read, it fool,l to have nothin3 in it contrary to the re,or.ding orders (we Stlpposr because the WarOnusing rail is nut a dire{ Tax Lill), and was ordered to 00 the Table: On the i'Vlotion that the Peti rionet heard by himself or Counsel on the Report, Do Tr p, Nu . ne , ited, that the prope r time for i' TN F i t 1 - ; Co ousel 4-rt,ulLl be before tie Commit tee, and tot, •:;e1 that the Bill be now read a second time. dlr. 1101"CliINSON pleatleil the injury 1113+ rr.ti; vv ,, u;tl do to the I r.it. of Ireland, as an ex. his et:timing lit the tip in it yet,ter. C r flit Whidl he 14/.IS libUilt to It ttl toe pre,cilt (yt.tga. it was not necchmry I t iia h e re t o cntcr into any, panrw ~ tie on toe lu).Cf) . of the I)i•tiNers 01 rid t., O f ;lo'l33;tibuilp l ,7t a tail 11 , 1(0 ; of the r.lblic th ; ir C• tvzii 114 hi:; . J to '.ay C ,nl,l eody r.Sttih i.h, t,f I I 1. ,on , rny to lie i . __: T tl -..t;, • • ; c.).15uq,411,:,c :boonty of.B,per cent, on all spirits distilled in stills of above soo gallons, of 16 per cent. on all distil_ led in stills oftbove moo gallons. This regulation was still More beneficial to the Revenue than to the Stiller, for the effea of it had been to increase the Revenue from Distilleries from 60,0001. to i zo,oool. in die first year, and at last to 800,0001. - and to re.; duce the number of Distilleries from zOOO to boo, and thereby diminish the' expence of colleCtion. These provisions were granted prior to the Union, and 'enforced then. At the Union, by the third section oldie sixth article, it was enacted, that all artieles.of the growth, produce, and manufadures of eithdr`Country, should be imported into the other, on paying the same 'duties which were paid for si. milar articles in the Country into which' the iin. portation was made: A regulation had been made conformably to this principle, for the mutual im. portation of the produce and manufaCture of both countries, and papers had been laid on the Table, and schedules had been framed accordingly, in which no alteration had been made, as to these duties, which were the only advantage the Irish had. This bounty had now been enjoyed 20 years by the Irish Distil. let's, and it was'to be supposed that that.: who'had framed the present schedules : were not aware of this and the other circumstances, when they arranged them. In the second clause of the Sth article, where the rights of the English distillers were provided for, it was enaaed,' that all duties 'and bounties which interfered with the mutual intercourse, should cease, and this allowance was still permitted to subsist.— It may be said the At of Union did away this allowance,; he submitted it did not, for all that the Union allowed was, the power of emitting a counterkling duty, to counteraa internal regulation. If there was any pa:son who was more concerned than another, to guard the rights of Ireland in this instantx, it 'Was the Right Hon. Gentle Man oppo. site, the CHANCELLnIt of the EXCHEQUER, whose faith was pledged the provisions of the AEI of Union should riorbe a mere dead letter. What he principally rested on, was the declining state of the Revenue of Irelard, he would not say in conse. cuenee of the Union, but at least since that mea. sore, the increase of the debt of Ireland, the falling off of, the onanufaaures of that Country, even of its staple, the Linen Manufanure, .according to the. highest authority, that of the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr: Fossg), the diminution of its provision trade, the annihilation of its woollen ma. nufaCturand•that this was the only point in which the trade of Ireland had any prosperity. He did not say that the Union did not, afford many sources of public benefit, but none of thein had yet come into afflon, and this was, in fail, the only benefit that Ireland eijoyed ; but the Manufaethrent here found out it was some advantage to Ireland, and they wished to take it away. The question waa before the Judges, and there was every reason to believe their decision would be in fa.. your of the Irish ManufaCturers. Why then was it proposed to turn short, and to endeavour by this Ad to deprive the Irish pistineft of the. ad , vantage they 'enjoyed ? The most respeaable legal opinions of both Countries had been taken On this measure, and the. result of all was, that this benefit should not be taken away from Ire. land. This Bill was held.out as a boon to the Irish Nation, by excusing the payment of duty on ware. housing ; but on the Distillers it would be a bur. then, as it deprived them of their former allowance. .0f the Spirits which were exported from Ireland nine.tenths were' sent to Britain ; so that on the remaining portion no advantage could be counted on. He knew the Csatac soLoit of the EXciilt. .QUER must be aware of the present stale of Ire. land; that he must have turned his attention to it ; that he roust wish to amend it, as the best means of strengthening the Empire, The Right Hon, Gentleman built his glory on the achieve. merit of the Union, and if the Union could be carried into dila by the consolidation of the aff4aions and the advantages of .both ,parts of the'Empire, it would 'Wife that cad; but if the Right lion. Gen. tleman clearly turned his attention to this Bill, be was sore he . would not so far counteraa the interests of Ireland, Th; CIiiINCELLOR of the 4XCHEQUV? sitid„ this question lay in a narrow compass. 'There Could be no doubt of the religious obligation of the Aft of Union, in the letter as will as in the spirit, In the spirit, nothing cot;h:t be More clear, than that articles of the produce- and manufaCture of each Country, should be admitted Into the other, on pay ing the sarneduty that the hotpe •manufatfturers paid. On this principle, all spirits from Jutland to great Britain were to receive a drawback to the amount of the whole of the dories 'the); had paid at 'homes to he charged in Engliltni with the satne as home trade spirits paid here. It happened alit, in Ireliod an alloy:or t ee of 8 per cent. was given . to stills of 500 z 6 per cent. to spirits distilled in stills-of moo gallons. When these spirits came to be exported' they received a drawback of the whole they had paid, with the allowance, which operated as a bounty of per cent. in one instance, and of 16 in the other, against the British spirit, It was true, this regulation had subsisted a& an iniernal.one in 'retain! for twenty years, and great benefit had been found from it to the revenue, • As an internal regulation it was allowed to remain, but he did 'Mit think - any regulation could be regarded as a per. manent cosnFatt. At the time the regulation was adopted there could be no view to the Union, but having been pasted by the Act of Union, was it to he sup poled that it. WWI to be unaltered ? EVery Act,of the separate Parli;tmentt Vemained subjeci to the diScretion of the United Parliarnent. With re. sped to the legal opinions, the only difference was, that the Officers thought this allowance so opposite to the spirit of the Act of Union, that it most have been dtme away by that Mt ; the Eng. lildt Law (Akers, though the) , agreed that the allowance was contrary to the spirit of that Atl, th , tight it Was due to the letter of that Mt to frame a legliinJive loci:Aire for that purp.)se. One thought it sva, not net.ssary to apply to Parliament, the other thou t ;ht it was. In 'his view the point eras $0 Ck:ir, 001 11.,1,:td, evert per :n in that House WO a dtiS't rent he would sat' there was aio rcom for a .Ii lie bad r.:ontndered the rubi,ya at , n k j-ol ) , a n d he w;,., convinced that if this :iro. »Ot azreed . l . o, there would bt: ;reconcile himself to be a party to. Dr. LAWRENCE was adverse to the Union, as it was likely to give birth to questions of this sort of commercial interference. Of all questions of this kind the most difficult were those which went to take away advantages enjoyed on one side, and thus to impose burthens which were not general. He would abstain fiom saying more on this point, as what he should say might have the appearance of being biassed fly interest. Mr . FRANCIS, considering the siroat ion of Ire land, thought it right to look tenderly towards that Country whenever an opportunity occurred. Mr. PANSITT RT said, that,when represents lions were made on this bulled Ina ,year, it- wa:, clearly the opinion of the Irish.Goire nimept that this allowance was a bounty ; and the only question was, whether the A.I of Union, coupled with the temporary Ads which had followed, bad established them so as to make them a matter of faith. Pro. =dings had been commenced by. the Distillers here for laying their ,case:before ; Parliament, but had been withdrawn, on the assurance of the consideration of their 'case on the part of Government. Mr. ORMVir said, the Irish Parliament was not pledged eternally to an Ad which expired every z9th of September, and which, if not annually re. riew,ed, expired at that period. TNs was an internal question, and so far as it was internal the measure was continued. He contended that the Corn Laws of the present Bession did vast :benefit to Ireland be. yond what it suffered by this Bill. This allowance of a d,edudion of for every tool. was in fad a bounty as 161. on - 84.1. or of 20!. per cent.; the advantage of warehousing was .besides to be con sidered.' The Irish Distillers, Who had come to.' Looduri last year "on the sobjed, would, lie was Sure, have been very well satis6ed with this ar rangement so he was sure would the Whole of the Irish Distillers, wheo the tneasore was explained to them. Mr. SH.ER,DAN allowed the provision alluded' to had been in force in Ireland for twenty years, and had been instituted without any view to the Union. How then could the Right Hon. Gentle r man (Mr. Pita), .be so clear as to the sense of the Articles of Union, when this provision of the Irish Parliament, of such long standing, had not been al. tercd by the Ad of Union; and had been conarrned by every Ad since that zra. If it was so obvious, that this was an injustice to the English Distillers, why was not that injustice pointed out before ? It was true, application had been made by the English Distillers, but these applications had always been. withdrawn, Hence there was reason to presume that the, allowance would be continued, and the Irish Distillers had accordingly vested theitclpital 1 in large works, and extensive stock. Thi s was hard. .The thing should be left to a legit (leeibion, and while that was eXpeaed, the allowance should not be withdrawn, where tbere-was reason to ek. pea that the trade of Ireland would Ix fostered and cherished. • Mr. IrM, SM/Dirwas persuaded, that if' this point was not noticed in fmni ng the Schedule on the . • Aft of Uni6n, it was by oversight. Application had been made by the English Distillers, and redress had been puimised in one way or another. The only fair principle wa s , ;he principle of equality ; and if the ex t e nt o f W or k s , and the Expenditure of Capital was added, it would weigh infinitely on the side of the English Distillers. Mr. FOSTAR was sure, that when the Irish Dis. tillers understood this Bill, they would look upon what it took away from them as a just privation, and on what it gave them as a benefit. &fore the Union no exportation of Irish Spirits could take place to England ; now there was no limit to that Eiportation. Before • the Union, there Was no power of Warehousing; now there was. The duty . at the Union was very low; it was now 45. a Gal. lon, and all this was saved to the Distiller. These advantages were long wished for by Ireland, and he was happy to have introduced the measure which gave them. Mr. DAWSON complained, that this measure was brought forward at this late period of the Set_ sion, when so few Irish. Members were present, when those birds of passage-brought over toe occasional service, and who were seen in such numbers a few days back, had returned to their native clime (a cry of "hear hear 1") If this advaritage to Ire ' land was an oversight in the Ad of Union, the sur. render of the Constitution of that Country may be said to be a greater oversight. If it were now to be said, give us back that Constitution, the surren. der of which was an oversight, what would be the answer ? Yet the sole advantage which Ireland en. joycd was asked back on the same ground. P.irlia ment was certainly competent to make an alteration in this point, but he feared it scarce would. Mr. ALEXANDER could not suffer the cia as. serred by his - Hon. Friend to pass without an dbscr vation, as it might, if not contradided, prove in. jurious, from the impression it might tnake in Ire. land. The Hon. Member contended, that there was a greater number in proportion of the Irish than the English Members then present, When the re_ gulation was made, the Export Trade was unknown in'lreland, it was intended to give the great Dis. tiller an advantage over the small Distiller, and as a regulation, he insisted it was competent to Parlia ment to make any alteration in it. Col. LONOPIEt.ti expressed his decided disappro. bailor) of the measure, as contrary to the Attieles of the Union, and likely to operite to the ruin of the Trade. Colonel FrrzomaLo was a friend to the esta blishinent of equality in the commercial intercourse between the two countries. Those conversations respe4ting countervailing duties, he considered. as hot likely to promote the peace or the tranquillity of either Country. He looked forward with plea. sure to the period when all countervailing duties should be done - away, and the produce di either Country might be carried into the other on theaame terms as from one County into another. Mr. Rots ZAT WAR said a few word; in support of the' Bill. ;sir Gamma Hitt argued, that as the Export Trade was not in the contemplation of the Irish ; , arli:iment when making the regulation, the p resent 1 measure could not be considered incon , istent With the'Article'i of 'the Union, Cott il s A fallen from an Hon. Gentleman, whom he did net see then in . his place (Mr, VANSITTAiI), afated,' that a Deputation from the Distillers of Ireland had,_ last - year, when this measure was in contemplation, remonstrated with His Majesty's Ministers, and re. ceived the assurance from the then Chancellor of the, Exchequer for Ireland (Mr. Costity), that nothing should be done in the business till the question should he decided by a Court of Law. * Mr. KER put it to the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fostsa) whether, at this late period• of the Session, it-was proper to push a measure of so much importance. The Right Hon. Gentleman was en..• titled to the gratitude of Ireland for his protection of its Corn and Linen Trade, and he trusted he Would not persist in the present Bill, whose opera• Lion would be so injurious to an - other important branch of the Manufacture of that Country. The question was then called for, and as Colonel Ht./Till MON did not press a division, the Bill Wig real a second time, to be committed on Monday. The Petition was then referred to the Committee on. • the fill. The Committee on the Irish Revenue Regulation - Bill was put off to Monday. A Message irons the Lords acquainted the House that their Lordships had agreed to the Irish Addi. dorm! Torc:e Bill, and to Viscountess Kilwanien'a Annuity Bill, without any Amendments. Mr. Sgaitroart reminded the..CHANceu.on of the Pick avitg, that when the error in the Irish' . Additional Force Bill, respecting the discretion given to the Lord Lieutenant of fixing the Bounty . had been corrected, it was understood that measure, would have been taken to rettify a similar mistake in the English Bill.. • The CHAZICEA.LOt of the EXcHtQUER that His Majesty was enabled by the 13i11 to' fix the Bounty at a sum equal to Om-fourths of the rego. Jar bounty; and there s could be no question of rho limit having been fixed to prevent a higher bounty being given, rathei than from apprehension chat I lower would in any case be allowed. REZOLUTIONS OF FINANCE. Mr. JoimsroNE postponed hi, Motion on this sub ( Jed, which stood noticed for this day, to to-morrow. It might be for the convenience of Qentlemen to bo informed, that he did not mean to urge the question further to-morrow than to move that the kt esohl• Lions be printed, in order to their being made thta,. subjed of consideration on a future day. STAMP DUTY BILL. Mr, HUSKISS9NMoved the 'Orctf!r of the for gaing into a Committee pn the Stamp Duty Bill, Mr. ffigß/DA4T rose merely to ask a qtteption relatiec to a point to which he should feel himself bound to call, the attention of the' Committee, it the answer should not be satisf4lory. The l'rearnblp of this Jill stated, that it was to repeal all . the ex isting Duties on Stamps, for which those con.+ tained in the subsequent Schedules, were to t?; substituted. The point on which he wanted eX!. planat4ur was, whether it was proposed to in, crease the Stamp Duty on Newspapers? He sup posed it was not intended, but until the matter should be explained; .the Bill appeared to have that Ofeet. . The discount- for .prompt . payrnent uqs aF present 16 per cent, and there was also an allow aneg of lEs. made to Newspaper Proprietors, as tor equivalent for the rise in the price of Paper, when. the Additional Duty had been laid on Paper, VC z 6 per cent, discount was inserted in the s c hedul the but there was no mention of the .tdia w 'r ance of 18s. and it would he manifest, that if the Bill were to repeal the AO by which that allovvocc' had been made, without re.enatling it, the ell's • would be to lay an addi t i ona l D uty , to t h e exten t that allowance, on Newspapers. The CH /INC ELLO R of the EXCHEQUER re' plied, that the a)lowance was made out or the E%'t cisc on Paper, and that the present repealed only Stamp Adti, and left all allowances under any other Mb totally undisturbed. The matter, however? sbould be attended to, The House then went Into a Comaiittee an Oft Stamp Duty Regulation Bill, many of the Clauses Of which were strenuously contested, .more patticut larly that which tendr4l to impose an Additional Tax on Attornies and Praetors, in the form of or l Annual Licence. Mr. SHERIDAN, Mr. FortaLANgov, Mr. Sor jeans 1 3 5 5 T, Dr. LAWRENCE, and others, argued asainst the clause, Duch as a stigma on the rats ton, or as unjust and oppressive,. and unequalled, , as applying to Any particular prnfessinn, • The CHANCELLOR of the Excettosis and the ATTORNEY GENERAL admitted the fotce ache ob• jeelions to a certain extent, and consented to mo. dify and reduce the Tax in certain proportions, to be calculated from the Icngth of time that the per. sons concerned were in the adual exercise .of their' professitin. We understood the, annual certificate to be rated for Attornies as follows $l. fur those who s' were not in the profession three years ; tol. for those who have pradised three years and upwards; with .e minor charge on persons pratising the same' profession in Scotland, &e. • On the Clause proposing an Additional Duty of 3d. on every sheet of Paper employed in LaW Prof ceetlings, an opposition of some length ensued, itrincipally, on the part of Mr. SHERIDAN, Off LAIVRENCR I Mr. Serjeant pm, &c• when a Di vision took place, Ayes, Noes? The other . clauses and Amendments then went through the Conunittee without any material alter. ati3n'; and the Rouse being resumed, the Report wan •>rder:d to be received to-morrow. .Adjourned at eleven o'clock. TO cogß PONPENTS We b a We re: dived done Lints, addressed to the People of Grtor Britain, and tic;:td G. T. lohich are written in the genttieg spirit of .1-9..:1/(T, lut they are no; ru.pienti, correa joy 1114. MAILS. ARRI V "! DUX, i2lllbUrgh 2 VRICE ) i,(,nin,l , S . :IE, O 'CLOCK. in oinn ' ?s • DAY AT TWW,IVCLOCIC.