The Sun. — London, England, 1832-07-14 00:00:00

Ac i '-- ~~ IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, Jam( 13. The Remedy against, the Hundred Bill went through a Committee, and was ordered to be read a third time on Monday. Lord SUFFIELI) presented a p e tition signed by the Rev. Geo. Evans, on behalf of the frogcongration of runs wick Chapel, Mile-end-road, praying the abolition of slavery. Mr. BuaaeELL and other Members of the House of roma - ions brought up the Valuation of Lands in Ireland Bill and several Private Bills. THIRD READING OF BILL. THE SCOTCH REFORM Earl GREY moved the third reading of the Scotch Reform Bill. The LORD CHANCELLOR proposed an amendment relating to the election of Members for the Orkney Islands, the object of which was understood to be that of an exten sion of time for the return of the writs. The Earl of FIFE wished to express a few observations on the subject of this Bill, and hoped he might have their Lordships' attention. When the Bill was first introduced into their Lordships' House, he had predicated that it would be impossible to resist it. Several Noble Lords had undoubtedly opposed the Bill, but he thought from the ar guments they had resorted to, they must have been asleep, or perfectly ignorant of the state of Scotland or the Con stitution. He had understood the great objection to the Bill to be, it would occasion a great change in the Consti tution—this he denied. The representation of the country had been unfairly extended, and this Bill was very much calculated to remedy the evil , an d p roduce a happy effect. There was scarcely a person iu Scotland of importance who did not wish for the passing of this Bill—wished for that which this day would take place. r.,The Earl of HADDINGTON opp osed the third reading of the Bill. The Lord CHANCELLOR could not let this Bill re ceive the sanction of the House without paying a high en comium upon the Commissioners, who had been most in defatigable in the prosecution of their duties, which they had performed with the strictest justice to all parties. The Duke of BUCCLEUCH could not allow the Bill to pass the House without justifying himself for opposing the third reading of the Bill. He did so on the same grounds as the Noble Ear! near him (Haddington). He thought Scotland had been treated with injustice in this measure ; he thought Scotland entitled, instead of 8, to 18 more Members. The Bill was then read a third time, and on the motion of the Duke of Rlcnatorin, passed. ANATOMY BILL. On the motion of Earl MINTO, the third reading of the Bill was postponed to Thursday. The House adjourned at Half-past Six to Monday. Mr. CRAMPTON said there must be some mistake in the affiir, he had never before heard of such an occur rence, but the matter should be inquired into. Mr. HUME then presented a petition against tithes from a parish in the county of Cork. A very numer ously signed one from Birmingham against all taxes on knowledge ; and 46 petitions . praying the House t o s t op the supplies, which had be n.agreed upon at a public meet ing at the time the Ministry were o u t. H e t h oug h t i t was due to the petitioners that he should now present them. Mr. SHELL presented petitions from the National Po litical Union, from Castl-bar, and Dundalk, in favour of the Ministerial plan of education for Ireland ; from Louth, against granting supplies till the Reform Bill became law ; from Bradford, Knockbridge, the Glasgow North Western Political Union, in favour of an extended measure of Re form for Ireland ; from a parish in Tipperary against tithes and Church rates ; and from Louth, in favour of the disbandment of the yeomanry, and praying the House to give Ireland 135 Members. Mr. HUME presented a petition froth Dudley, in favour of a more extensive Reform for Ireland ; and from the churchwardens of Hackney, against the Bill for the re moval of Scotch and Irish Paupers. The iron. Member also presented a petition from Marylebone, against that clause in the Reform Bill which made it imperative on all persons before they could be registered, to pay on or before the 2011 of July all rates due on the sth of April. The Hon. Member wished to call the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to this petition, which 'rated that unless something was done in the way of giv ing relief, the borough of Marylebone would he deprived of the votes of nearly 10,0001. persons. Lord ALTHORP did not see how the clause in ques tion could be considered as bearing hard upon any one. It had been most fully discussed and considered, and adopted by the House. If it deprived any parties of their right of voting, he regretted it, but it was utterly out of the power of Ministers, or Parliament itself, to alter it, lor no clause bad been introduced into the Act to empower the House to amend it in the same session. After some observations front Mr. ESTCOURT and 3lr. J. Woon, the petition was brought up. Mr. PRINGLE was anxious to learn from the Noble Lord opposite whether the Government intended to pass the Bribery Bill this Session. That measure was con sidered absolutely indispensable, in consequence of the gros s and shameful scenes which in many parts of Scotland were at present witnessed. Lord ALTHORP said it was the fixed deterininati ,, n of Government to do all they could to carry through a Bribery Bill during the present Session. Mr. KENNEDY was extremely anxious that the se veral vague and pernicious imputations thrown by the Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Pringle) upon the people in Scotland should be substantiated, by naming the pl ~•es in which the scenes he had described were occurring. This would he satisfactory to all parties. Mr. K. DOUGLAS complained that there was no need for the censure of the Hon. Member, as the observa tions of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Pringle) did not give oc casion for it. His Hon. Friend (Mr. Pringle) had only recommended the passing of a Bribery Bill, in which, for tunately, the Government agreed. Mr. KENNEDY did not at All object to the Bribery Bill, but insisted that it was unfair to make general im putations upon the people of Scotland, without namin g particularly the place to which his observations applied. Mr. PRINGLE had no hesitation in saying that h;s HOUSE OF COMMONS, JULY 13. Mr. TOWNLEY presented a petition (we could no bear where from) against a Reduction of the Duties on Foreign Hemp. Mr. R. WASON presented a petition from the Magis trates. Grand Jury, Yeomanry, &c. of the eastern division of Suffolk, praying that the Assizes for that County be held alternately at Bury and Ipswich. Mr. LAMBERT presented three petitions from parishes in the county of Wexford against the tithe sys'em. Also a petition from New Ross praying for an equal measure of Reform in Ireland as was given to England. The Hon. Member observed that' he was of opinion his Majesty's Government had shown every disposition to endeavour to conciliate the people of Ireland upon the subject of Reform. He then presented petitions from a Political Union in the county of Wexford, in favour of the Government plan of education in Ireland ; and from Lutterworth, against the punishment of death for forgery. Lord G. BENTINCK presented a petition from the Governor and Guardians of the poor of the parish of Sc. Margaret, in the borough of King's Lynn, against the Bill to alter the law regarding the passing of Irish and Scotch vagrants. That Bill was of the greatest impor tance to sea-ports and border towns. He believgi that the bill was abandoned for the p resent session, but -ii it should ever pass, all sea-port towns would be reduced to a most lamentable condition. Lot d W. LENNOX supported the prayer of the petition, which was ordered to lie on the table. Lord .MORPETII presented a petition from a Congrega t:on of Unitarians at Stainforth, in the west riding of the county of York, in favour of the Government plan of ethwatiou in Ireland. Also petitions from Leeds and Hallifax against the Scotch and Irish vagrant removal hill. Lord ASHLEY presented a petition from the Coroners Dorsetshire, praying for an increased allowance by the Bill now bees the House, reg irding the regulation of the office of coroner. .a r 31- r'.. n.l2.lkulti.-, relative to a better observance of the Lord's day. Mr. CRAMPTON postponed hi s mo ti on for bringing ap the report of the Committ ee o n th e Clandestine 'Mar riages (Ireland) Bill, until Monday next. Mr. HUME presented a petition from the coach makers of Glasgow, against the proposed tax upon steam carriages; also one from the Marylebone district, pray ing for an extension of the time for paying the taxes, in order to qualify under the Reform Bill ; an d one f ro m the Chamber of Commerce of Belfast, praying for an inquiry into the state of the Admiralty Court in I re l a nd. The petitioners complained that a Belgian vessel, which had been obliged to put into that port in distress, had been detained for a debt of 1001., which the agent for the owners resisted ; he offered security to double the amount of the debt, but it was not accepted, and the ves sel was still detained. '-, ms s- ~ .- remarks were applicable particularly to the counties of Roxburgh, Berwick, and Mid-Lothian. Colonel PERCEVAL begged leave to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite whether the difficulty whirl► the clerfy of Ireland were represented to encounter in the valuation o f ti the , , for the present half year, would be met by any provision in the Bill which he had introduced on that subject ? If not, it would be most advisable that the subject should receive the immediate attention of that House. Mr. STANLEY admitted that the subject was extremely important, and that it would not be met by the provisions of the present Bill. It was, however, advisable that the subject should receive ti•e consideration of the House, and if the difficulty could not otherwise be obviated, it would be necessary to have re course to an expedient which had formerly been adopted, and to take the valuation according to an average of a .ertain number of years. Lord ALTHORP, in answer to a question put by the Marquess of Chandos, stated, that he would, on an early day next week, bring before the House the subject of the Sugar Duties, when he would take occasion to make his general financial statement. Mr. HUME took that opportunity of asking a question of the Noble Lord opposite, on the subject of military sine cures. The Governorship of Stirling, it is well known, was a sinecure; and as the individual who lately held the appointment was dead, he wished to know whether any one had been appointed in his plice. Ministers did not need patronage to enable them to carry on the Govern ment; and as he had always insisted on the abolition of si necures, he wished that it should be abolished. Lord ALTHORP was quite aware that the lion. Mem ber for Middlesex had uniformly opposed sinecures of all sorts ; and when he (Lord Althorp) sate on that side the House he had adopted the same line of conduct. Still he was of opinion that the Crown should not be with out the means of rewarding old and efficient servants. He did nut see why the old officers of the army should not in that manner he properly remunerated.—(Hear.) On the motion of Mr. STANLEY, the Order of the Dav for the adjourned debate on the Composition of Tithe (Ireland) Bill, was read. The SPEAKER having put the original question and the amendment, Mr. CALLAGHAN rose. He denied that the proposed measure was calculated to tranquillize the country, or to settle the tithe question to the satisfaction of the people. From one end of Ireland to the other there was a general feeling of dissatisfaction at the name of tithes, and a deter initiation that the payment of them should cease. It was perfectly evident whim that the measure would be ineffica cious. It was said, that by this Act Government only wished to ascertain the amount to which the Protestant clergy by common law and by custom were entitled. To that alone he had no objection, hut be was sure the object of the Government would not be obtained. It might be that in a future Parliament the subject would receive due attention, and in the mean time, if Govern ment made that declaration, he had no doubt the people of Ireland would pay the tithes, and until then rest satisfied. The Composition Act, he knew, was not one that would be attended with severity, but in the present excited state of the people no persons could be found who would be willing to undertake the risk of going round pa rishes to value the tithes. He much regretted that feeling, but it was impossible not to perceive that it was very deeply rooted in the minds of the people. A great deal bad been said about the agitators, as they were called, of Ireland. The fact was, that those who were called agitators were far behind the people in regard to their op position to tithes.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Some of the leaders of the agitation system had lately given no advice whatever regarding .tithes, indeed the people had gone before them, and refused any longer to receive any advice upon that subject. The people believed that if this Act passed, they would pay less to the clergy, but that they would pay more to the landlord, and, there-- fore, they objected to pay in any shape to a clergy from whom they received no assistance or benefit whatever, and who were, they believed, gene rally inimical to them. He did not wish to speak in terms of disrespect of the Clergy, but it was notorious that they had been hostile to the feelings of the population, and interfering with them riot only as to their education, but as to their civil rights, and had done all they could to interfere with their domestic comforts. He was persuaded that this feeling against the clergy had been increased by their interfering with their notions of education, and their sense of those injuries was so great that it was utterly impossible to make tithes in any shape palatable to the people. Those were the precise circumstances in which Ireland now stood. The Hon. Member said he lived in a parish in which the tithe Composition Act had been adopted without his consent — (Hear) —and he, for one, thought tithes a cruel robbery.— ' ( a A n; will * .aj:aeilniecsot'nnsithdie'riCldeir'g:;;":meaven'crrouofenl thatirobberys parish, account that awit with h e r whom he lived on terms of intimacy and friendship He felt much for the situatio n i n w hi c h clergymen were placed who bad a certain portion assigned them by law, but who were now placed in great difficulties by the almost impossibility of collecting the portion so assigned. The,first great anti-tithe meeting took place in his neioh bourthood. He could assure the House the feeling had grown up quite simultaneously amongst the people, and ad it not been for the Catholic Clergy, gre a t dis turbences must have taken place. The p'an pro posed by Government would do nothing to put down the feeling now abroad. It went no farther than the law, as it at' present stood ; for the Act was not to come into operation for some time, and he was sure it would he a long time before persons would be got to take the risk of valuing the tithe Mr. Y.PEEL said, that all the Gentlemen who op posed the tithes spoke greatly against any interference with vested rights.._( Hear.) But he was utterly igno rant of the meani ng o f n on-i n t er f erence, if their whole speeches did not exactly tend to that which they deprecat e d. For what were tithes, but th e veste d ' property of the clergy ? lie would support the measure of tile lion. Secretary. He hail heard a report that Government had received a notification from certain Mem bers that if thia measure were not given up till a Reformed Parliament met, Government would lose their support. But he hoped they would not leave the Protestant Irish clergy in the starving state in which they at pre sent were. If the tithes were not to be secured to the Protestant catablishment, what security was there that taxes or rents would be p iid ? He believed the Hon. Secretary was anxious for the measure to pass, but had not the power, for it was well known that Go vernment bad been controlled for the last eighteen months by Political Unions. Mr. BENETT could not agree with the opinion ex pressed by the lion. Member for Cork, that this was a cruel robbery. The clergy of Ireland had as good a right to tithes, so long as they did their duty, as any other indi vidual to hie own property. He did not believe any gentle man in Ireland would be so dishonest as to take the tlthee from the clergy to swell his own income. Eighteen years ago he had written in favour of such a plan as that now under consideration, only in place of giving the landlords an offer of the tithes few eight een y ea r s ' pur chase, his plan was that it should be double that, fur he cthoensßidiegrhedt Hon. tithes a G s goodenti Gentleman p ai r l ope ha r d ty land.asivena g I r n ea h t is boonopinion, to the landl or d s of Ireland, Tithes were, as he said before, the property of the State, and might be disposed of by the State. It was extraordinary to I'm that the Irish land lords could refuse their assent to so advantageous a scheme ia a ) : lal t ni h b a we t raa o sl ft: toeyrri.eedT,thliiiaeermac purchasehteyr the sed b ß vya i was ght lue our and honesty, h e m n e o en t n i r e e .e s m t t y a h n , a a n * s t well l T v i . e ; aa but all thiede of what the Church had a right to r circumstances considered, it was no doubt f e u ' ll e as the Right Hon. Gentleman had the means to Y give. ath l e i h e wished not to be misunderstood ; he was not for a we ilthy provision for a Protestant Church is a Catholic country but he considered the tithes tile property of the State : he said nothing of the distribution of the property, but he thought the property itself ought to be preeerved for public purposes; and lie thought the plan proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman was the best that could be adopted for that purpose. He should, therefore give it his cordial support. Lord KILLEEN intended to oppose the motion of the Right Hon. Secretary, because he thought that it was hot calculated to give satisfaction to Ireland. It was eaid that something ought to be done; in that he perfectly agreed but he thought that since they had made up their minds to be satisfactoryol sale. j. c something,A they CAMPBELL the Lp people nnpvgl preferred t as fnefrre well d 0 that which should Ireland.t h e Bill of the Right Hon. Secretary t o th e reso l ut i ons o f the I-lon.Alener as for Meath, because the Bill treate d t i thes while the resolutions fal se ly treate d t h em as' at removed property, lt would be most unjust to see th e p ayment o f t i thes I from those men who had bought thei r l an d w i t h e move ' know ledge that it was subject to that charge, and replaced by a general property tax, of which they w ere only to bear e proportionate part. Under these circumstances he should entirely give his most cordial support to the Bill of the Right HOD. Gentleman. Mr. (YCONNELL—I shall give my most cordial i+is - 10 \ oat to the Bill of the Right lion. Chntleman, and mY !nest hearty concurrence to the resolutions of Hon. Member for Meath. What I have to say t subject, however, I shall express as b riefl y as I can, for on I do not know anything more idle—l do not know a molt , : c ontemptible mockery than the debate w hich is taking place on this scheme of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Good God ! what is it ? It is a discussion in which the state of Ireland is entirely forgotten —in which conduct of the Government towards Ireland is Intl looked—and in which the una n i mit y of the nation is treated as if it was a combination of trades men or mechanics to wrong their employers. The Noble Lord has said, this is a combination which mustwhol be put down ; but what I want to know is , w h e ther a e nation can be guilty of a combination ?—( Hear, hear.) A little tine ago it was disputed whether the people of England were in favour of Reform ; but a cha n g e in the Administration proved that a vast majority of that people were decidedly in favour of it ; and no sooner seas that fact evinced than the demand for Reform became irresisti ble, in spite of all the resistance of the Upper House, or of the Throne itself. To be sure, the people of Ireland have always been treated as provincialists—as colonists : but if it had a Parliament of its awn, I ask, could the present system of tithes exist for an hour ? Who are they that oppose the payment of tithes? Not the Catholics alone—not the Presbyterians alone—not the Dissenters alone. But even the very Protestants of the Church of England had iu great numbers joined in this combination, as it was called. When, therefore, we have such a union of sentiment throughout the country, this paltry and piti ful manner shows nothing of the env of the statesman, or of the affection of a patriot. What is the conduct of the Ministers ? At one moment they are shrinking and shrinking from the most important topics; and at another they are exhibiting the most absurd daring, by opposing the fondest and most earnest desires of a whole people. It was rumoured, that when the Right Hon. Gentleman took office, it was for the express purpose of supporting the interests and freedom of Ireland ; and yet, was not one of his very first acts to write a letter in which he gave a die" tinct pledge in favour o f the Kildare-street Society ? Mr. STANLEY—That letter has been acted on to the utmost extent to which it was possible to act on it. Mr. O'CONNELL—I am glad that I have roused the Right Hon. Gentleman from his torpor, and that he has begun to interrupt me so very soon in my speech. What, hower, I say is, that that letter contained a distinct pro mise, in which I presume the Right Hon. Gentleman was afterwards over-ruled by the rest of his colleagues, who, no doubt, felt after what they had said and done, when in oppisition, it would be impossible for them to remain .0 office if they were to act up to the pledge of the Right Hon. Secretary. But it is not in this alone that the same disposition towards Ireland has been evinced. What has become of the Grand Jury Bill ? Lord Leveson Gower pledged himself to the bringing in of that Bill ; and I know that he is a Nobleman fully capable of vindicating himself under any pledge. When he went out of office it was intrusted to me ; it was afterwards taken out of my hands, and passed into the House of Lords ; there it has been slumbering ever since before a nameless Committee, for I have not even been able to learn of whom that Com mittee is composed. And why has this been done? Be cause in the eleventh hour the Right lion. Gentleman has thought fit to resort to prosecutions, and because he well knows that, with a new Government, many said there was no chance of those prosecutions succeeding. Let us retnem ber, too, the way in which those prosecutions have been conducted. I do not hesitate to say that those charges have been brought forward with an indecency which no Ministers would have ventured to exhibit before the Eng lish natiou. But, according to the Right Hon. Gentle man, anything is good enough for Ireland 1 How has he treated Gentlemen in a rank of life nearly, if not quite, equal to his own? Instead of resorting to a summons, as usual in such cases, he obtained sworn depositions ; and on those the sanctity of their houses has been violated, and they themselves dragged through the streets like common felons, at the command of the Right Hon. Gentleman. I do not care to allude to my own case. There is no need for it. Oh, the Right Hon. Gentleman is very welcome to sneer as much as he pleases ; but I would at least yen• tore to take the liberty of asking, whether he imagined that there were any danger of my absconding, when he di rected the privacy of my house to be violated by the thief-catchers whom he sent thither ? This, too, I will tell him—that though he has thought proper to act thus towards an Irish Member, he would not have dared to have pursued a similar line of conduct towards an English Member of Parliament. But in return for all this evil, have the Ministers conferred any goof on Ireland F They have given us a stingy Reform Bill. Thanks to the people of England, we have got more than was intended ; but Heaven only knows what the Right Hon. Gen tleman's colleagues may do in the other House ; for any thing we know, it may be referred to a Lords' Commit rats grand principle is to keep up the present Protestant Church Establishmen t in Ireland—his great determination is to do nothing which shall lessen that establishment, which is so monstrous and preposterous in its size. And what are his col leagues about all this time? Do they think that the people of England are indifferent as to tithes ? Do they think that there is no desire for the abolition of tithes on the part of the Dissenters of England ? Do they think that there is no desire in the agricultural districts to diminish the weight of the burden? Do they think that nothing will be said at the ensuing election as to pledges for an alteration in the system of tithes ? I will venture to affirm that all these things are true; and that when a Ministerial candidate goes before the people, he will he asked how it is that when England itself is look , ing for a change in the tithe system, the enormous Church establishment of Ireland, instead of being diminished, has been increased.—(Hear, heir.) What the Right Hon. Gentleman is now asking is neither more nor less than that 9,600,0001. should be accumulated to purchase land for the benefit of the Protestant• Church of Ireland. This is his chimera for the satisfaction of Ireland—this is his dream of Irish tranquillity: and to heighten the effect, he pro poses, in order that the affair may he better managed, to place it in the hands of an eec:esiasticalcorporation. Surely, never did madman dream such a dream within the walls of Bedlam ! What, does he think the people of Ireland are in love with the Corporations ? If the Irish have any one especial disgust, it is towards Corporations.—(Cheers.) . They have only known Corporations as interfering with s i btbp u itarer s ir: t vg i i; c aitc e inenog_ a r n nipt d aro, rrdwaeet advocatingi iata amiable, . dia et be i loucemi:taynirn—t jobbingeari an:syet anything ntnergduaubinil upheld ow, t n o the dishonesty—asniep this a s c little e o . f rsbeytalenanEctlediess?las iA c a l t e i r se g s y clergyman, n h , u like n i any ty; other and the when is Protestanten to th the pastorbetter heard of the father having died, the son having fallen sick, and the cattle being diseased, h e was rea dy to li sten to lie tale of woe, and temper his demand with mercy and with pity. But a Corporation cannot do this. A Corporation can know neither compassion nor relaxation—and in that respect it seems to bear a resemblance to the Right Hon. Gentleman himself. Oh ! heavens, what species of Go vernment is this, to throw Ireland to his management, as the spoil it; thrown to the hounds after the day's hunting is over ? With respect to the clergy of the Established Church, I fully admit that they are in great distress. We all know that they are. We all know that men of large in comes are now obliged to borrow 5/. or 10/. to live from day to day. We all know that they are in a situation which calls for our pity and compassion. And in conside ration of their condition, what (toes the Right Honourable Gentleman propose to do ? Why lie says he will give them some more land—(A laugh)—.as if there ;vas not land enough already.—(Hear.) Would it not be better if the Ministers had come down to the House with a vote of credit ?—(Hear, hear.) Would it not be better if they bad asked for 60 many Exchequer bills to be placed at t o h l their disposal ; to repay which an abundant supply would H have been found in the property tax, which must be had been proposed, no one would have adopted when we really come to an arrangement of the in order r . s e d that f i te a l e t t h m is . reliefa case tghiet aggravatediilgehahyrt .I);teh eDpresentafforded e to p thoseuanpp, suppose e W t itlceoas that the been more ready than myself to have concurred in the vote _ ( ln prosecutions to tyliich he has now resorted, will serve in stead of Exchequer bills, a d intimidatepeopl e • into the payment of tithes? lf he does, I can tell him that he is mistaken ; I can tell hithat these prosecutions are only playing with the ashes thrown from the volcano, wl • the volcano itself is boiling for another eruption,when perhaps: it may prove irresistible. Neither het it w that in opposing the Right Hon. Gentleman's schleernsak, offer nothing in return. What do we propose? '3 a t v v : propose to quiet the people of Ireland, by telling them ' that tithes are extinguished, The report of the committee has already told them so in name; but W e would tell them so in reality, and prevent that Report:being a mockery. But perhaps we shall be told that we cannot extinguish tithes, because they are the property of other persons: —(Hear, hear, hear.) I do not admit this, and I will tell the House why. If the land-owner does net choose to till his land, he will have no tithe to pay ; the tithe, therefore, clearly is a tax on the use of the land; and it is remarkable that the raw material pays nothing to wards that tax. In short, like many other taxes, it is paid by the consumer.—(Hear, bear.) The effect of tithes is to make provisions dearer ; and, consequen tl y , ever y man who cats pays a portion of the tithe. At first the land herd, the tenant, and the public would mutually gain ht' the extinction ; but in a few years the public would be the sole gainers. Ireland is essentially an agricultural coun try. Prior to the year 1799, many of her inhabitants were employed in manufactures; the loom in the north, and the woollen trade in the south, supplied occupation for thousands. The effect of the Union, however, has been to send nine-tenths of the rent of the soil out of the country into the pockets of absentees ; and the conse quence of this has been almost entirely to annihilate the manufactures of Ireland. I have stated these facts to show that Ireland is now essentially an agricultural country. I, therefore, now call upon this House to untax the agricul ture of the country, and to ley on property in general that which so severely oppresses the farmer.—(hear, hear.) It is the severity of this burden which is sufficient to account for the combination which at present exists in that country. This is no party matter. In the south of Ireland, many of those who used formerly to be the leaders of the Orangemen are now in the field for the pur pose of obtaining the abolition of tithes ; and I know that the: Presbyterians of the north, when quitting Ireland for foreign shores, though they wrung their hands for sorrow at quitting a country they loved so well, consoled them selves with the expression " Blessed be the Lord, we arc going to a country where we shall have to pay no tithes." The state of Ireland is frightful—tile state of the clergy is afflicting—this question deeply interests the finest people on the face of the globe—a people great in their character, and yet even merry in their misfortunes. But can I be lieve that this is the case , when I loo k around me ? What do I see—not more than five-and-twenty English gentle men who will take the trouble of listening to a debate of such vital importance to Ireland. The matter is settled— the question is determined—and the Right Hon. Gentle man is as sure of carrying his point as the gamester of winning with a loaded die : he has the loaded die : but for all that, I tell him that the whole is not —I tell him that the people of Ireland shall remain quiet, and triumph in their quiescence: they were able to triumph over Wellington of Waterloo, and they are not to be put down by an Irish Secretary. What possible benefit the Right Honourable Gentleman can expect from this Bill, I am utterly at a loss to con ceive. Will it appease the two-thirds of Ireland that are already in commutation, to learn that the other one third is to be put in commutation also ? Will it make them more tranquil ? I tell him that it will not ; all the representatives of Ireland tell kim that it will not ; and yet he desperately determines to try the experiment in spite of all warning.—(Hear, hear.) But, not content with this, the Right Hon. Gentleman has another plan quite as admirable as the first. He proposes to make the landlords of Ireland his receivers. But does he know that many of those landlords are deeply in debt? Did he ever hear of one instance (surely it seems to me as if that instance had come from himself) in which a gentle man of 10,0001. a year, bad a charge of 9,5001. on his estate ? And would he put his tithe charge on that? If lie would, the gentleman had better at once make him a present of the estate, and wash his hands of it. But per haps the Right Hon. Gentleman intends to spread the tithe over the whole estate, including the charges : if so, it only shows the entire ignorance in which he is legislating for Ireland. Did he ever hear of the process of custodium in Ireland ? Does he know that an estate may be seven, eight, nine deep in custodiurn, and that the cre ditors are obliged to scramble and do the best they can ? I myself knew a property on which there were eleven custodees, with the landlord himself in receipt of the rent as a second custodee: and, under such circum stances as these, I should like to know where the tithe mo ney is to come from ? Does the Right Hon. Gentleman also know that there are in the Irish law what are called ' eleg its, which will also stand in the way of the tithe charge ? Does he know that there are trespassers in pos session of estates ? Does he know that there are over holding tenants? These are things, I imagine, none of which have entered into the Right Hon. Gentleman's phi losophy; and I suppose 1 might as well talk Arabic to him as mention them; and yet every one of these are ne cessary ingredients to the great revolution of property which he is suggesting to the House. If it was his inten tion to invent a scheme for the purpose of throwing the landlords into the hands of the people, and for making white feet and black feet of the gentry of Ireland, the Right lion. Gentleman, with all his ingenuity, could never have discovered a plan better suited for the purpose than this. --(Hear, hear.) It would be idle to threaten Govern ment. lam the last man in the world to attempt such a thing ; but I should be wanting in my duty to my country if I were not to tell him that it is not in the power of England to put down the combination in Ireland. He i ci h. ci e o h w e a d d may make it disappear for a day—he may hide its dimi nished the rati i o sf n oti a rn l ga r un ig i h destruction, dis tinction, and threate gh n : until at length those, night—but t — oh feb betweenpv u eL t . or ypitenbreeti property, spitetewhn tithes ssl l of a fosof e r a v gsn e eo r tc y oi tedhteiyoafftuo with itash i x : e Committees. while the Right H on . G en tl eman i s ta lki ng and laying el ca ntds theh downoul vested ftuh fully l y interestsr igh right understandaon f d the ph the w raets ei wrong tn tis in n hat his w Tith What I c hi e fl y d es i re i s , t h at the people of En pro pose. W e propose t h e a b ol i t i on of t i thes—we prop oseto incumbents— we do not even want to strike a single shilling a year off the inc ome o f t h e present Protestant Clergy and, in conclusion, I tell the Right Hon. Secretary, that though there is a bargain which he can I nake now, it is one which he will not be able to make a year hence. ' Lord J. RUSSELL—The Hon. and Learned Gentle man had placed the word " conciliation" on his lips ; but the whole of his discourse had teemed with anything save conciliation.—(Cheers.) The peace of Ireland was what they were all seeking, or at least what they ought all to wish to seek •but ; the course taken by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman seemed adopted for the purpose of dis turbing that peace, as fast as lay in his power. He (Lord J. Russell) was one of those who had been most earnest and anxious for Catholic Emancipation ; and be had been earnest for it in order that the Roman Catholics might he placed on an equal footing with the Protestants. But now that they had obtained those equal rights, he could not acknowledge that they were entitled to make use of their numerical superiority in Ireland, and turn that which was intended for e quality i n to ty rann y.—(H ear , hear.) With regard to the question more immediately before th e H ouse , h e h a d li stene d t o t h e var i ous speec h es made by the representatives of Ireland, in the hope that some way would be discovered of conciliating' the differ ences that existed, and of obtaining that which was most desirable, namely—a fair measure of justice for the Irish Church, together with someting which those representatives might deem calculated t o secure t h e permanent • y and tranquillity of Ireland. H e was sorry, howevier es rt p o et find n that he was so far disappointed as not to be able to see how, by any alteration of the proposalof I • ' its Right Hon. Friend, such a reside was likely to be effected. The first tion, as to whether tithes could continue their quts in present shape, he understood to be by common consent abandoned on all sides. This being disposed of, two other questions next presented themselves—the first, whether any other income could be substituted for the present ; and the se cond, to what purpose the money so obtained ought to be applied. As to the first of these questions, he must say that it seemed to him that the representatives of Ireland gave an importance to it which it did not truly possess ' • an I that the real difficulty lay in the second of th ese ques tions. It had been proposed, that instead of a tithe com position, there should be a land-tax instituted on a new valuation ; but when it was asked what were to be the details of this measure, and how it was to be carried into effect with snore satisfaction to the people of Ireland, it clearly appeared that a tithe composition, if fairly esta blished, would prove more effective than any laud-tax. By this composition, ail grinding exactions of tithe would be got rid of, and the income of the clergyman being per manently fixed, th ere would lie no raising it from yeart o year, or introduction of fresh d e ma n d s , w hi c h under the present system had caused so much complaint. Having disposed of this question of a land-tax, he no w came to con sider what were the other points of a difference between the plan of the Government and the resolutions of the Hon. Member for Meath. The Hon. Member stated in t h ose r ieeo' f etiogs, that tithes ought to b e ext i ngu i she d i n substance as well as in naa a ee ; but he (Lord J. Russell) contended that the Bill of his Right Hon. Friend would substantially extinguish tithes ; and therefore, in that re spect there was no matter at issue between the two parties. But the reaolutions of the Hon. Gentleman then went on to state, in a sort of parenthesis as it were, that the Church of Ireland ought to cease to exist. This, indeed, was a considerable difference ; and he hail been puzz i w ith the vagueness and the want of intelligibility l n the resolution, until he found that the vacuumby the evidence of Dr. Doyle before the Tithe vas sCommittee.upp l i supplied On consulting that evidence, he perceived that Dr. Doyle had made this statement : s " I thi n k t h e tithing pit ought to be for ever and utterly aboli s h e d , an d a land tax em not exceeding one-tenth, substituted in its place the produce of which tax, as well as th e church lands, should ; be placed at the disposal of Parlia men t, or o f a Royal Commission, to enable them to suppl y w h at was necessary for the support of the poor, for the as s i s t an c e o f th e ministers of religion, for the education of the children and for the promotion of works of public necessity or of national improvement." lie did not think that it was a seasonable time to discuss the proposition of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, the Member for Kerr). Considering that this was a question of tithes, and that we were now far advanced in the month of July, the House would pledge itself unnecessarily, and would involve the three branches of the Legislature, by agreeing to a resolution, of which the effect was, that the Church of Ireland ought to be abolished, and that its funds ought to be applied to public purposes.—(Cheers.) As reference had been made by the Hon, and Learned Member for Louth to a vote which he (Lord John Russell) gave in the chu r y c e h a r 0 f IB I r 2 , 4, when la , n dha the d n o a questiongreater as number w, w n e r i ste t]:e s, and a larger amount of revenue, than the interest of the Protestant religion required, lie must say, that although he might not now approve of the farm in which that vote was made, he was still of the same opinion ; and he thought that the Protestant Church of Ireland was too large—(Cheers)—not only for the purpose of giving in struction to that part of the population of Ireland which professed the Protestant faith, but he thought it too large for its own permanent stability.—(Great cheering.) There fore, whenever the question might arise in its proper day, and at its appointed time—(Cheers)—he should be ready to maintain the views which lie had for merly expressed.—(Cheers.) It was certainly the opi nion which he had always held, that it was the duty of the Legislature to provide for the religious and moral in struction of the people of Ireland in a way in which that had never yet been done.—( Hear, hear.) What was in tended by our ancestors in the establishment of the Church of Ireland for religious and moral purposes had not an swered that end ;—(Cheers,)—and as the Legislature had now to consider anew in what way that end might best be attained, it was bound to respect—as, he believed, every Member of that House was ready to respect—the rights of those who had existing interests in the present arrange ments.—(Hear, hear.) Preserving to the church those rights of property, which it justly claimed, the Legislature might provide for its future welfire ; at the same time that it would deliver the people of Ireland from the state of ignorance in which they were proved to be by the daily ac counts received from the newspapers, or from other sources of information. To that ignorance he attributed all the evils by which Ireland was afflicted ; and until effectual mea sures were taken fur the instruction and moral elevation of the people, it was vain to legisiate for the preservation of property, or for the maintenance of peace, good order, and tranquillity in that country.—(Cheers.) Mr. LEFROY had heard the speech of the Noble c i o t sts E i iai l vyt: , that tate,tsgi:;:hel Lord with great pleasure, and he concurred, as he was sure every man attached to social order must concur, in 1 ' the sentiments which that speech expressed ;—(Hear)— although he must acknowledge that, in some respects, the Noble Lord had not stated his opinions as distinctly as he (Mr. Lefroy) could wish. So far as the observations of the Noble Lord might apply to a more equal distribution 'of ; the property of the Church amongst the Members of the Ministry, he had nothing to object. But if the Noble Loid could be supposed to agree in the declaration of the Hein. Member for Kerry, that the revenue of the Church of Ireland was monstrous in the amount, and unnatural in the application, he (Mr. Lefroy) was prepared to show that the Protestant clergy were not too numerous in pro portion to the Protestant population—that the whole amount of the revenue, if equally distributed, was not ex cessive, and that the application of the funds which they ' received was advantageous to the interests of religion, and beneficial to the people of Ireland themselves. Tee Pro testant population amounted to 1,269,289, and the number of benefices was only 1,252 ; giving 1,000 Pro testants to each benefice ;—( Hear ) — and if the revenues of the.church were equally distributed, they would give to etch benefice an income of no more than 199/. a-year. It surprised and grieved him to see attacks made upon the property, upon the existence of the Church of Ireland, by gentlemen who were admitted into that House only upon the condition that they bound themselves upon their oath not to use their influence as Members of Parliament to the injury of the church.—(Hear.) As to the measure of Government, which they were then engaged in discussing, he could not conclude the brief remarks with which he had troubled the House, without characterizing it as one which could not but prove highly mischievous in its operation ; it was unjust iu every possible point of view in which it could be considered, it was revolutionary in principle, and subversive of all the rights of property. Sir J. BURKE disclaimed, on the part of the Catholics, the slightest wish to appropriate to the clergy of their church the revenues darived from tithe. In the wildest periods of popular excitement, he had never heard such a sentiment broached by the Hon. Member for Kerry, or by any other of the Catholic leaders. There was this indis putable fact, stated by the Noble Paymaster of tl t i sii e tioianm F bl o ,Ai r st c chh e tea s d: , fpgt i ro n hire: t si ohs toer, present vs. t,e i .emnmnd_upeeleaor_ revenues enjoyed ,h a vre a n ean t c sj , wo e Ayl i eus, of which i _ identical deo,bem.ayn, tp.m_iuct .ial misrepresentation ew, ,rpfyez,iur,l with hlwsryeg, was agreedylhsteeal altogetherort cifrooentsmhi ) s te s epo , e s n a t m l e m e at s n im n e ea h r e him cou i l n d t n h o i t n c k o in n g cu t r ha w t it i h t t c h h e ar n ac ig te i r it ; H a o t n. th G e was a measure, the operation of which could lead to the pacification of Ireland ; he feared that it was so directly y opposed to all the wi s h es an d f ee li ngs o f t h e great body of the people, that it could not b e success f u l : t hi s, however, he begged to qualify by the frank admission that some measure in the nature of land-tax, or valuation, or com mutation, was absolutely necessary. Mr. HENRY GRATTAN said it was a Bill which would neither provide for the Clergy nor satisfy the people. There could be no more direct mode of creating dissatisfaction than by making the Composition Act compulsory. He thought the plan would be found alto gether inoperative. The Tithe Composition Act had already glaringly failed. The Hon. Member then com plained of the manner in which the affairs of Ireland had been administered, and that that country had been go verned, not by an Irish Secretary, but by an English Bishop. He admittted that the measure was well meant; but it could never be operativ, for it was not founded on any principles of wise or sound legislation.—(Cheers.) of i n rakng personal STANLEY thanked th e H on . G en tl eman f or the . tt h ecclesiastical dignity to whi c h h e h a d e l evate d hi m; b ut he did not think it prob a bl e th at h e s h ou ld ever b ecome an English Bsh i op.—;l A son l a a l ug a h t . t ) ack li s. He Ctrs o re htigl iittig hte Hon. Hon. Gentleman bad wandered horn the real question for th e purpose Gentleman referred to the evidence of Mr. Griffiths, to show that the valuation made under the Tithe Com position Act was not exaggerated, as stated by the Hon. and Learned Member for Meath. Comparing his own plan with the resolutions of the Hon. Member for Meath, he contended that his Bill, which promised to do some thing, was a great deal better adapted to the present cir cumstances of Ireland than a series of resolutions, which would lead to nothing, except to postpone all discussion of the question this session. He readily admitted that the landed gentlemen of Ireland did not wish, as they said, to throw the burden which they ought to bear off them selves ; still he was surprised that the Hon. Member for Kildare should have proposed a tax on all houses, capital, and land, and that the Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry should have proposed a general tax on all funded and personal property. But he was still further and still more surprised to find a recommendation from these gen tlemen to meet the present exigency by a vote of credit, and trust, after giving way to the system of intimidation now going on—to trust, after confessing the power of combination to accomplish its object, to the moderation and good sense of the Irish people, to receive from them what was advanced, and to repay the money to the people of England and Scotland. Then came the Hon. Member for Cork, who said openly that he had never paid the tax with satisfaction ; that he would rather not pay it at all— that he wished to get rid of it, which was very extraor dinary ; for what was that but throwing off the burden from the shoulders of the landlords ?—(Hear, hear.) The resolutions moved by his Hon. and Learned Friend pro posed a means of appropriation of all the Church property ; it was to be devoted to the payment of all the ministers of religion of all denominations, and to be devoted to cha ritable purposes. lie was much aurpris,ed at that coining from those who opposed the introduction of Poor Laws into Ire land; for what would this be but another . • means of providing for the poor ? His Bill would really go to the extinc tion of tithes, in the sense in which that impost was a grievance, leaving it in the hands of Parliament to make a future arrangement as to Church property, and placing at its disposal a t ." -• from being ' angioie fund, and keep it . de pendent on those who refused to pay tithes by a latvlese combination. His Bill would further relieve ground down tenants, and save these insolvent people from the claims of the clergy, which they were unable to meet. Further, his Bill provided a feasible and easy means of re deeming the tithes, provided the landlords chose to pay them themselves, by a uthorising them to do that at the rate of 15 per cents less than their preseni value, Ts, English landlords would be glad, as hiS Noble Friend the Member for Northampton said, to have such an advantage, and be able to redeem their tithes on such terms. The Bill he proposed certainly did not meet all the grievanc es of the tithe system, but it did put an end to the conflict between the tithe proctor and the peasantry—it would Put an end to the collision between the clergy and the people, and it would throw the burden of paying the 'tiles where it ought to be borne, namely, on the land, lords; and it Would at the tame time give into their hands the means of telieving themselves to a great degree of all the real evils of the system. At the same time it would ! s ave which the resolutions of his Hon. and Learned Friend did not, the question of the appropriation of Church pro perty to a future Parliament. On these grounds he ven tured to hope that the House would negative those resolu tions, and allow him to bring in his Bill.—(Cheers.) Mr. MULLINS said, that if there existed at the pre sent period a case in which deduction was manifestly at variance with evidence, it was to be found in the second tßheep evidenceo r t ofthe committeeon which on Irish that a t Reportwa compared founded. He called upon the Right Hon. Secretary to say what part of the evidence justified him in his opinion of the beneficial results of a compulsory composition? The state of the . - case appeared to be this—the tithe-payer complained, first, of the injustice ; next, of the pressure of the impost : and what did the Right Hon. Secretary say in reply to his appeal ? " You shall have immediate relief ; I'll place every one of your neighbours in a similar condition, and you shall all henceforward enjoy the inestimable advantage of a compulsory burden." This would be the necessary consequence of the proposed enactment ; and there was something so trifling in this mode of legislation, that he could scarcely bring himself to believe that the Right Hon. Gentleman was in earnest in his proposition. It was well known that the enforcement of the composition would not enable the clergy to collect their tithe with less difficulty di han at present; for the opposition was not so much to the A o manner fthe of o impost. cll e c T ti h o o en evil, i modeof l therefore, payment, still a n s e t e o d e t d h eexistence a remedy, which could only be found in the immediate, not prospec tive—the unequivocal and total abolition of the present system. All parties were equally opposed to that system, and could only be eontented with a remedy as satisfactory as that alluded to. These were not his opinions alone, they were the opinions of the very witnesses on whose evidence the proposed measure was founded. Of twenty six witnesses examined, sixteen were decidedly opposed to the composition, compulsory or otherwise; seven had been questioned on points not exactly relating to that branch of the inquiry ; there remained therefore but three in any degree favourable to a compulsory enactment, of the six teen. Stephen Wright, the first witness, declared " the composition not to be an improvement, but the reverse." Robert Delahoe, the second, states "that though the com position should. be compulsory, it would not be likely to extinguish the present feeling on the subject of tithe ; it being his own conviction that tithe, whether required by usage or under composition, would not long be submitted to in Ireland." John Dunn stated that " the Composition Act had every where disappointed the expectations first formed of it." Christopher James declared the opposition to be general, as much in compounded parishes as others that the composition was not an improvement, but the reverse ; and that he objected both to the principle and details of that Act." The Rev. Theophilus Blakeley " thought that tithes should be abolished ;" the Rev. H. Montgomery " knew now that the people did not like the composition as much in operation as in anticipation;" and Mr. William Collis said, " that so far from being an improvement, it was the very reverse." With such evi dence before him, he could not in his conscience, support the proposition of the Right Hon. Secretary, seeing that that proposition was directly at variance with the opi nions of men in every way competent to form a correct judgment on the subject. Lord EBRINGTON expressed his determination to give his unqualified support to the measure of his Right Hon. Friend. He should have been ready to give his con sent to any more palatable means of relieving the people of Ireland, but no such more palatable means had been proposed. What had been proposed, instead of the plan of his Right Hon. Friend ? Nothing but a general tax ; and he, as an Irish landlord, protested against a plan which relieved his land at the expense of the community. As an English Member of Parliament, he protested against advancing anything from the general property of the State to pay those sums which were due from the land of Ireland.—ln conclusion, he pro tested against the combinations, by which gentlemen, such as Mr. Bourne and Lord Cloncurry, were placed out of the pale of society, because they paid their tithes. He thought that the gentlemen of Ireland ought to make a stand against these combinations. It was easy to fore tell, that if they did not, the next thing destroyed would be the rents of absentees ; and the rents of resident pro prietors would soon follow. He, however, begged to ob serve, t let he was most anxious that a Reform should twee place in the Church of Ireland, because he considered all such establishments to be made for the benefit of the State, and liable to the regulation of Parliament. if the subject of Reform in the Church Establishment were not proposed by any person more worthy, he pledged himsel f that he would bring it forward in the new Parliament. Mr. DAWSON did not think this measure would pro duce tranquillity in Ire. He looke uon the Right i.eeland inns .8 the most d fatal wounds the Irish Church had ever received. The Right Hon. Gentle man had sent forth an anathema against the tithe system, and he was responsible for the combinations which had been made to extinguish them. He had done his duty in statements te r lfap e e At l ntre a lehtm n rsief.e d eun . nci stating that this measure would not satisfy the people of opportunity i A toh n l as l t P‘a scatteredvtl. hdi ctn N , itvgta w nhnhtea a dht s fflverHot y m iehrolodel o laneven s n.de t dcrt . a sehoa n emi tn i x emorn i oe o ,Btnti u botaog s et rtesyh t ebee o otxfoo t hirf a hriai take dtlpeghhr auetaprlextinguished Ireland, the advantage bHieedlsoid: umhhtsbaeiyddse,_ Commons, tt ohaatd tithes were to be extinguished; but both had hild declaredsomittede of f commutation. That omission :changed the character of the whole affair. Was it not known that such a thing had been done before now ? There was an Act of Par liament passed in the Ist and 2d Wm. IV. for extinguish ing the tithes in certain parishes in Wal es, and for afford ing compensation for the same. It was not true that tithes had ceased to be paid in Ireland. Such a statement was only true as it regarded parts of two provinces—Leinster and Munster, for they were still paid in Protestant Ulster and Catholic Connaught. The combination, however, that existed was of a most dangerous character—it was a combination, not merely against tithes, but against the law of the land ; and the Government must put it down. If the Right Hon. Gentleman was not an English Mem ber, and, above all, if he was an Irish, seeking the suf frages of an Irish county, he could not have made a better electioneering speech than be had just now uttered. Mr. G. DAWSON called the Hon. and Learned Mew her to order, and said he was an English Member. Mr. CRAMPTON knew the Right Hon. Gentleman was an English Member, and knowing that, he thought he was justified in saying that had not the Right Hon. Gentleman been an English 'Member, and had he been an Irish Member, and a candidate for an Irish county, he could not have made a better electioneering speech. (Hear, hear.) He should again refer to the subject of the combination existing in Ireland—it was a dangerous combination, which must be put down, and which the Government were endeavouring to put down. In their recent special commissions in the county of Wicklow, six men had been convicted, and these convictions had been followed by 46 pleas of guilty. In the same manner out dtlesepejotees%utis of adjourn ment. 39 cases presented in the Queen's County, there had been 38 convictions, and there was no pretence for saying that Judges or Juries had not done their duty. The landlords of Ireland had no wish whatever to defraud the clergy, but they wished to secure the peace o of u t t h h e e io g u en n e tr r y a . l was of opinion that the Right Hon. Mr. G. DAWSON and Mr. CKA:ArToN mutually ex plained. Sir R. PEEL rose to address the House, but was met Wqeurees ti q o u n it i e n answer uninte with loud and general cries of " Spoke, spoke !" The s t a c n r y i e so other e y Lb s a p t ok h e e n o h n 4 qua H ue o i‘en n sit . tr.i Baronet onL—A3h feßi E d a e dß n T i o e n d l to his The SYEAlTtilreotno say ying appealed few words n e L t a h m a b d t oe s r p tt: o se k ) spoken on House, Which hn m isc a . h i n Spoke," and " Chair," that Colonel PERCEVAL rose to order, and addressed a ligible what period of the two nights' pi f i r ar o ed m voani t i h et e : n is um su e b r numerous to, said—lf any that he perfectly recollects at Hon. Member is Hon. Member addressed the sa discussion that we have House, he is able to do ,4 1 During those two • more than I can.—(A laugh.) „TA tions for nights we have had three or four mo adjournment. On eachofthose each Member, although he had , e g titled to add before spoken, was again en- o ft address the House. Many did • • se.avail themselves , of that privilege; and iii these discussions on motions for e adjournrn e • • • nt the main question was frequently introduced ;s . L es Into debate. If, under theBe c'ecumstances, lam called on j to say at what period of each distinct discussion any Hop. Meinlier .81 spoke, and whether he spoke only to the question of Adjournment or introduced into his speech the maim ' T .4I . subject of debate, I shall be called on to ez, that to whieh l t aro quite n”equal.—(Laughter.) Sir ROBERT PEEL thin addressed the House, pro- e* milling to be very brief. They were called en to support the Government because it was said that the Govera'ment were endeavouring to put down dangerous combinations, and to restore tranquillity to Ireland. The opponents to ,/ the clergy often spoke of liberty. 'What liberty was that s which existed in some parts o f Ireland, vele e, if a man desired conscientiously to p a y what lie owed, there was a 101 conspiracy not to employ him? The • question was not