The Sun. — London, England, 1853-05-06 00:00:00

1 oini 4 0 t o , 'lll Of W O 10 /1 . 1' Fel° Fl'` ) L?u /# l4 1,0 1 r ef 6,20° •• 9t f l° .• ;I) all~p~~ ; 01 , 6 3 5 0 6 4 I 6 a 4 1 P 'o o 1° h s lo th )0 c p soe wen t ; r g' 3g the .ac rP' " Tb ° • ;11 0°eo 19 1- d Per 9 od' of )11 1 ) 11 13 io e,,, 0 fro— oa 0 for a 1 0 0 b r O O iS IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. Yesterday being Ascension Day, the House of Lords did not sit. 1 101JSE OF COMMONS--(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Sir JOHN NEW took the oaths and his seat for Taunto. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following bills were read a third time and passed : Zijaalingden and Rawtenstall Waterworks Bill, Leeds / ;a 8 (No. 2) Bill, P r i ce ' s P a t en t C an dle Company (No. Bill, Staffordshi re P o tt er i es W a te r works Bill, Wigan Waterworks and Police Bill. and a The Mad ras R a i lway Company Bill was cons id ere d greed to. COMBINATION OF WORKMEN BILL. , On th e mot i on of Mr. T. DIINCOMBE, the order of the uaY on the third reading of this bill was read for the pur tezf being postponed until Wednesday the Ist of WESTMINSTER BRIDGE. Sir W. MOLESWORTH moved for leave to bring in a bill to transfer Westminster-bridge, and the estates of B "T he Comm iss i oners of Westminster-bridge," to the orar nissioners o f h er M a j esty ' s Works and Public and to enable such last-mentioned Commis zioners to r emove the present bridge, and to build a new °ridge on or near the site thereof. Agreed to. PETITIONS. , r • PREWEN and other honourable gentlemen pre - u petitions from Sussex and other parts of the eemantry again s t the licences portion of the budget. O C- D r • C OWAN present e d a p e titi on from the solicitors 'dlebur g h against the amalgamation of the Edin 21Th with the London Gazette. Cter: RI" Presented a petition from Dover, praying house to legalise marriage with a deceased wife's petiti Mr . P• O'BRIEN an d ot h er I r i sh mem b ers presente d Bio ons from var i ous parts of Ireland against the eaten n C of the i ncome tax to Ireland. s 01. IQ Ir a% — OYLE presented a petition from a place in Praying the house to address her Majesty to be pleased to use her good offices to secure the withdrawal of foreign troops from the Roman States. Al comes Marq u i s o f GRANBY presented petit i ons from parse : Marquis Rutlandshire against the opening of the Crystal ' l ee 011 Sundays. • Sir p~P. KELLY presented a petition from the editor, Priet°' and printers of a newspaper in Lincolnshire, I ,Yieg for the repeal of the advertisement duty. v ar ,T• COBDEN p resented a number of petitions from t 6,. •.°11s Places in Yorkshire, in favour of legalising mar -se with a deceased wife's sister • also a number of malt ti ttonxs.from Hampshire , ' praying for the repeal of the io k tt iv • BRIGHT presented a petition from the London i!ersitY, prayincr for the extension of the elective I.9liise t o that institution. e' toZr• BR OCKLEHURST presented a petition nume :ral s igned b the working men of Macclesfield, est the openi y ng of the Crystal Palace on Sundays ; 414 7 one from the traders in the same town, praying that cou rt te B ra . n bankrupt c y ma y be managed by county Alr pe rao • W 0. STANLEY presented a petition from a bef e la n amed Joh n I re l an d, a witness who was examined the B arnstaple committee, stating t h at h e was l e Pared to substantiate his evidence at the bar of the ee, or befor e a commission. horen,...LCITAMBERS presented a petition from the th ° f * Maldon 2 praying that a writ might issue for election o f a new member for that borough. Mr S UNDAY AND DAY SCHOOLS. da BRIGHT moved for returns of the number of day Belleels and Sunday sc h oo l s , and of the number of p i ,L schol ars and Sunday scholars, in England and lie 4 „, eg i with the populations, distinguishing between pub apd day schools, and also distinguishing male and Leinale sc h olars, according to the census of 18 51 ; 4 , 1 ,1 of the number of day schools and Sunday schools, Wittiof the number of day scholars and Sunday scholars, l b of the citi es an d mun i c i pa l b oroug h s o f E ng l an d, Ne e r espective p o p u l a ti ons , di s ti ngu ishing between mal e a nd Privat e d ay sc h oo l s , an d a l so di s tinguishing 1 851, and female scholars, according to the census of 4 greed to. COUNTY COURTS. Crown for re- ItkIIITME moved an address to the turnsi. of the proceedings of every 10 Vic. ..ed the Act 9 and and Wales, established under . n of Parliamentary e ; 85 , for 1853, being in continuat io n county court in Eng kjaPer , No. 545. Aap P e to. ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION. hen ISlr ' 11, PDX moved for returns of d in the Eccle sefices the revenues of which are veste d in 'f' ng the names slastical Coinrnissioners for Ireland, - speel Yi i _ all dignities and f teak e Act of Parliament ainder wh'h the e e s a u n ck place, in what diocese situat ed , any, with a ue, viz., re nt - charg e , rent; and fiar, if the quantityPnresual bow have the care of the protestan- population and the of la nd, - the names of t the their number, as f ar as it can b e ascertained, %tipend paid to each el rgymam • all moneys re- Ini e e i re n e a w c h : ' , : i ..lved hy the solicitorseof the Eccle O n s f i , a sz st n ic ., al of C t o h m e m pe i r s: 1141ers for Ireland, for the of leases, con i.,„S deeds of conveyance, the renewal l salaries of I 9 '''''''• b h works beyond the preparation, ~,00/ „ urea . 4c eouh al ic'Wed to them and their clerk a kto : 4 _ l ' B tinder which the disburse ment , was cha l rge to Parliam ent charged in, ent : m astical Of fall m 0 of the board submit teddby clerks, and the head of th so e ur E c - Ilion due a nd uncoll ected eo t , s _. . eys a last, distin ne4olssioners for Ireland, day of February f which the Rh ' n eonie on the Ist benefice out o Eccle siastical i pe . a: and the yearly . 1-441i8hing each i bishopric and treasurer Of 7 Was payable, ers, fees receiv ed ot sti of the Ecclesia to 1 4 . 411 agen cy or rece ivers' employment balance by t o h f e the s ame .. past,the '4ll for Ire with the name o ad a '!„Y other person in the and the he 0, u oitualissioners b' e 1 t day of Febuea7 . each, paid to was charged lan las d, t, fors!ven years 11 Ist the ' se (3' 480 . under whic h submitted to . under the i h -ount accounts holding . 6 ,,' th e annual sums the disbursement arranged in on rs for Ireland , the house perpetuities, tii ecl - ecal ..' t he names of e Commissi oners e h have w 0 several tenants pays ; and P rth an account of the an nual aving distinguishing those conveyances,s that would )tiee::lelas: idistinguishi ' 4l ll' f those not h and the sum rent that perpetuity each the cal tli e c ase. e their last renewa ls, req uired to pay, • b date of their with summaries made t o the last gale day, tizt e i lv a.t b . e Paya bl e by each if all were with the names olses of all rules, general ers for Ire land, received the thsiastical Commission when they and bye-laws of the I°ll to be orders, of th •. re present . e Commissione as re- of the board, and the Lord-Lieutenant, ,_ a _ 'let been of iby .......... . 3 7 : And of and distinguishing any n th t at have Itli red b app roved Acts 3 ~,, 3, the . Council in Ireland for the union a n d e 1818, and for t and 4 Will. v., c ,CP:e of the Privy. since January, 4iV131011 of parishes, s!n PlB4PPropriations for bishoprics, ',lurch Temporalities Acts, since A dignities, ngnst, Zt i under e B . 3 , 3. the 4 greed to. E HOUSE. wished t o ask in evi- R, - VENTILATION OF .Tll b,,'Ar D E LACY EVANS wis proposed in TeNent system of . last session, was committee, it was in ho l lee by Mr. Gurney in or whether lighting the house, Whether it eh under under his management, , him ? wh r Works to alter o lii, ge of any one recommended _ n o p y al as the intention of the Board I 'Va n ventilation o f his rep or ts th ge the system of Mr Gurney i n detailed in his „.. ,e conditions pointed out by 11Ir, d fully ''e t last session, an the house to meet avide o the house . of the nee given in comnutteel and of Mr. Meason, ho ''' W. MOLESWORTH said the lighting or tile r a 8 any 118 e w under the management chan g e e as no intention of making alteration Rn the ventilation. • tli ir 11 . W. BARRON said, on Monday 73 , an d the heat ~, Nonieter in the gallery stood a Monday a ' s t sest night the . 14Ir _ oppressive. vji.r. tattled:lT said, if there ought to move to ntilation being improved, the hous e ""ke other uilding. laints of the eott/V. MOLESWORTH M r, Gurney again, and con-. kilt t- i:', l _'ed, he would call in Mr, if these. comp moll upon the subject. R• NEWSPAPERS IN BA RRACKS. .. n . a had genti J . V • STIELLEY wished I f any new orde r ... Lti Sian, the Secretary at Wark reference to h ad d if so, ask the right bon. 1-Zeioissued by the War-office soldiers'wit barracks, an , ob- Nvi leth o of newspapers into n jecti et the right hon. gentleman 1 4 °1 1 to Estate the nature of that . order. h a _stated in d been is. 'ere:. IIERBERT said it voul d have a ny order had been into RN of the papers that an of newspapers sol the ~restricting the admission attached 4. to the qier iibra,..:_ i„ s and reading-rooms The L ac "' -- %se 4 , --rracks, but it was not so. Secretary-at-W e a r r e , lloni'vere these. When he became 0 newspapers alb, 4iort time ago, he found that n rl!ed to be circulated in barracks or adm itt e d hi,and th e 1144111)grooms attached to the bar resorted to p.ot hall4ral result was that the soldiers d with the passing Into t he e tea e t : t e make themselves acquainted saw no 'eo,l),t the dap• For his part, however, from the rea din g-rooms (iie.ag f or excluding newspapers had been 14411 ed r ' hesi')and, therefore, an order he h ut ~, Permitting newspapers the admis 'lie/41'111g two exceptions, viz., againstone e religions character, to be ci rculated in barracks, and n,eeatroversial newspapers of a - I',lii,i,e ind u lg e s e r against the admission matters of upon kiii-" in C otroversial remarks of newspapers !l'at'Y discipline. (Hear, hear.) t hd not ra ' V. SHELLEY wished to know kr exclude the United Service Gazette ? tive. The if :the order N 4 :I 11RREERT replied in the affirn.m second a lks • '''e'l7ice Gazette came strictly 8 of exclusions. kt % Iv STAMP DUTIES. within the seco Ot tk . LOCKHART wished to ask the Chancellor 43._!e Exchequer if his attention had been drawn to t he R,„4:11.119 duty theno every degree of doctor in medi 1 I I I 's(' by 'U niversitie s of Scotland ? I°ll 1i.,, 10 eIiANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it n et, but lie should be happy to receive any statement tl 0.. , le subject, as he was desirous that all these stamps gid be placed on a moderate and uniform rate. SAVINGS BANKS. tiellVilel.4ASSEY wished to ask whether it is the inten here i her Majesty's Government to introduce any men d e or the purpose of giving additional security to Desitors in bank° The _..._ savings banks l ? V?a,,, tale 1 11 of the EXCHEQUER said it ti t , tgle intention at an early period to lay upon n ,_ 41 :4 a bill for improving the constitution and tecnCthe vent of savings banks, and to give depositors ea N of obtaining greater security for the repay of their money than they now enjoy. (Hear.) LONDON AND EDINBURGH GAZETTE. Mr. COWAN wished to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, whether it is his intention to proceed further with the bill for the consolidation of the London and Edinburgh Gazettes, the second reading of which bill now stands for Thursday, the sth day of May ; also, whether it is intended to adopt measures whereby the charge for advertising in the Gazettes may be reduced to the public. Mr. WILSON said the matter of this bill was still under the consideration of the Government, with the view of devising some plan by which the cost of the paper and advertisements could be reduced CUSTOMS, &c., ACTS. The house went pro formal into committee upon the Customs Acts, and some amendments in the resolutions respecting the importation of spirits for the Channel Islands were agreed to. ISSUE OF WRIT FOR BERWICK. The order of the day having been read for resuming the adjourned debate on the motion for issuing a writ for Berwick-upon-Tweed in the room of Mr. Matthew Forster and Mr. Stapleton, who had been unseated on the ground of bribery, Mr. HUME said there were no less than five ad journed debates respecting the issuing of writs for boroughs, and he thought it would be a great advan tage to the country and save the time of the house if they were all brought forward at one time. (Hear.) Mr. PHINN considered that it was most desirable to establish some principle or uniform rule for the issuing of writs for boroughs at which committees had reported bribery had existed, and the present occasion offered a good opportunity for doing so, as the case of Berwick gave a strong exemplification of the mode of bribery adopted at those elections which had come before election committees this session. By taking these writs separately, the proceedings of the house degenerated into party debates, instead of being merely of a political character. He contended that the house had not, by any recent acts of Parliament, abdi cated its common law jurisdiction, and it was, therefore, competent, as the grand inquest of the nation, to institute any further inquiry into elections it might deem necessary, notwithstanding no recommenda tions had been made by select committees. He thought the house ought to give its most earnest attention to a state of things in which the forms of this house were constantly made the means of extorting money for stifling petitions. He was bound to say that both sides of the house were implicated in corruption at elections. With regard to this case, it would be ludicrous to shut their eyes to the state of corruption existing at Berwick-upon-Tweed. He believed it was quite as notorious as St. Albans or Sudbury. In conduct ing the inquiry a list was given of sixteen per sons alleged to have been bribed by one member, and of ten persons by the other member ; but after the first day's inquiry charges of treating had been brought so home to one member, Mr. Stapleton, that on the next day he withdrew all opposition to the petition ; and though no further evidence was gone into with respect to the other member, and the counsel had declared that, as against him, it was a fighting petition, yet cases of bribery against him had been incidentally proved so clearly that he, as well as the other member, was declared unseated. The agents on both sides were examined as to a compromise having been effected, but they expressly denied it. Of course, if the house allowed private parties to prosecute their petitions at their own expense, they must allow them to prosecute them in their own way ; and it must be borne in mind that the object of unsuccessful candidates petitioning was not only to unseat their opponents, but also to keep themselves in favour with the borough, and not.expose it too far. This abrupt termination to the petition had caused great surprise both in that house and out of doors, and there was great suspicion that some corrupt practices had influenced the withdrawal. Articles had appeared in the Times and Daily News on the subject, hint ing pretty strongly that an offer had been made to a certain sitting member against whom a peti tion had been presented, to withdraw the petition for 2,0001., and from an address which shortly afterwards appeared in the Berwick paper, there was no difficulty in fixing the Berwick-on-Tweed case as the one alluded to. He asked the house whether the perfect notoriety of those proceedings was not of itself suffi cient to justify the issuing of a commission without having the report of a committee to go by. .(Hear, hear.) He believed that a commission might be safely issued to inquire into the state of every borough in the kingdom ; for though he allowed that county members were in the main elected without any corrupt influence, yet there was a mass of corruption existing in the boroughs, which none but the most vigorous measures could deal with. Mr. K. SEYMER said he was curious to know on what ground the hon. and learned member intended to justify the suspension of the writ, seeing that he had not moved for the production of the evidence which was taken before the committee. He now found that he depended entirely upon •articles in the Times, in the Daily News, and in a Berwick newspaper, and also on .the notoriety of Berwick for corrupt practices. (Hear.) Now, he (Mr. Seymer) must confess that he was not aware of the existence of general corruption in the borough. He believed that since he had had a seat in the house no case of bribery had been proved against that borough. He objected to the house entering into the case of boroughs which were formerly corrupt, but with respect to which new writs had since been issued and new members elected. There would be no end to such inquiries, and, besides, he did not think they would result in any good. The committee were unani mously of opinion that the writ should issue, and that there was no occasion for the production of the evi dence. (Hear.) In no way did that evidence affect the right of the borough to return members to Parliament. He could not help thinking that hon. members in asking for these inquiries were actuated by political motives, and that they wished to make out a strong case for an extensive reform bill. He did not quarrel with them for adopting that course ; but he at the same time thought it his duty to stand up for the constitutional rights of electors. Sir F. THESIGER said the hon. and learned mem ber (Mr. Phinn) had made a very serious imputation upon Mr. Hodgson, a gentleman who had for many years been a member of the house, and he (Sir F. Thesiger) thought it was but fairness and justice to him to state what were the real circumstances connected with the petition which he had presented against the return for Berwick. In the article in the Times Mr. Hodgson was described as an adventurer. From 1837 to 1847 Mr. Hodgson represented the town of .Berwick on-Tweed ; and being then anxious to represent New castle-on-Tyne, he stood for it and was defeated. At the election which took place last year, he wished to be again returned for Berwick, and believed that parties were so evenly balanced, that the Conservatives were en titled to one seat. He stated, therefore, that if the liberals were determined to bring in two members ' he was ready to be put in nomination ; and when Mr. Stapleton was brought forward along with Mr. Forster, Mr. Hodgson commenced his canvass. The result of the election was known. That treating and bribery pre vailed to a considerable extent the house was entitled to . conclude from the result of the inquiry before the com mittee--(hear ' hear) - but Mr. Hodgson, on the declaration of the poll, clearly intimated his intention to petition against the return. He laid the evidence before a baronet of liberal principles, in a northern county, who told him that in his opinion, the case was complete, and, with Mr. Hodgson's concurrence, informed the agents of the sitting members that a petition would undoubtedly be presented, with a certainty of success. Mr. Hodgson's desire was to ob tain one of the seats for a Conservative candidate, and he wished to accomplish this without presenting a peti tion, partly because a petition was a very , expensive af fair, and partly because—and the experience of hon. members would bear out this view—it was not a very popular thing in a borough for a person to be petitioner. (Hear.) He came to town prepared to prosecute the petition, having, as he informed him, no less than 90 witnesses. Under these circumstances he saw a gentle man of great authority on the other side of the house, by whose advice he sought an interview with Mr. Forster. He first proposed to Mr. Forster that both the sitting members should vacate their seats. (Laughter.) His next proposal was that one of them should retire, and that no opposition should be offered to a Conservative candidate. It happened that there was some disunion between the sitting members which rendered any arrangement of that sort utterly impracticable. Mr. Forster, however, referred Mr. Hodgson to his son, whom, he said, he would find a man of honour. Mr. Hodgson stated that on his calling upon Mr. Forster, jun., that gentleman said to him, " There are four walls to this room:--- _ (laughter)-1 propose that neither you nor I shall repeat anything that passes between us. Your father distinctly states that he wishes not to know what takes place at our interview, and, therefore, if you please, it shall be strictly confidential ;" to which Mr. Forster agreed. Yet in the article in the Times, copied in the Berwick newspaper, was found a statement which could not have been received from any other person than Mr. Forster, jun. (Hear.) It was there stated that Mr. Hodgson offered to make with the young man a bet which must terminate in his own favour, so that if the transaction should ans ever r be Now,called in as question confidenceith mightad been n" so a colour able be trayed, and such a character had been given to the com munications which took place, he thought Mr. Hodgson was justified in himself stating what reall y th F e o ur: Forster took place, and what foundation there was for tion that a wager was offered to be laid with mr. ,asthe condition , ond, Supposeh isitionofl proceed with father's withdrawin g. my petition Hodgson jun., said, peti Mr tion only against Mr. Sta p leton, wit h your father's guarantee th a t there shall be no opposition to my election far wick upon the first vacany (as was understood). Upon this, Mr. Forster , j un., said, " What securit y could v . ou n have if any such g uarantee were g iven 1" It Why," said Mr. Hodgson, "you may enter into a penalt y in case I am not returned, ' (Hear, hear, and che ers .) H e had made it a condition of his stating the case that no thing should be omitted. (Hear, hear.) All he ventured to say on this matter was, that it was very different from offering to lay a bet as a colour for a bribe of 2,000/. ; all that was sought by .Mr. Hodgson being merely a guarantee to secure his election. Mr. Forster, jun., observed that a bond of that kind would be illegal ; upon which Mr, Hodgson said, " Well, then, I'll lay you a bet, or do the thing in any other wa y y ou like," •(Laughter.) He made no comment, but merely stated the circurastances. No arrangement Was made with Mr. Forster, and the petition was still pending. (Hear.) When the committee inet, on the very first day of the inquiry, as they bad heard from the chairman, a case of treating was completely established against Mr. Staple. ton: Evidence was given against Mr. VorstPl; 1 4 .4 1 10 1 certainly placed his seat in considerable jeopardy. In this state of things a communication was made on the part of Mr. Forster, declaring that if no further evidence were offered 4,gAi1,14 hilxl, bp would undertake that no opposition should be offered tAI tie PIP#9 I I of e, censer been put to cga W er aiho Orelge vative candidate for Berwi* 1464§9n, baying Telked IY3 NYQuld g not accept of the seat without the costs. Accord ingly the offer was rejected. In the course of the same day an honourable" friend of his (Sir F. Thesiger) ex pressed to Mr. Hodgson his regret that some arrange ment had not been come to ; but Mr. Hodgson stated distinctly that the seat and the costs were his terms, and to no other terms would he submit. When it was stated that Mr. Stapleton would abandon the defence of his seat, Mr. Hodgson desired that notice should be given to him that an application would be made to the committee for costs against him, as had been previously intimated in his letter. When the committee met on the second day, Mr. Hodgson communicated with his counsel as to the grounds on which they were to press for costs, when, to his surprise, he was informed that an arrangement had been made that Mr. Forster should pay the costs of the petition, that neither he nor his friends should oppose the return of a Conservative candidate for Berwick, that no further evidence should be produced before the committee--(hear)—and what ever might be the decision with regard to Mr. Forster, this arrangement was to hold good. It was proved to the satisfaction of the committee that there had been no' compromise between the parties. Looking at all these circumstances, he thought the house would feel great hesitation in deciding that the writ ought not to issue. There were no grounds, as it appeared to him, on which the writ could be suspended with a view to a further in quiry. The act of Parliament said that if the house directed an inquiry, this was to have no effect upon the issuing of the writ, and although it might be desirable to appoint a select committee to inquire into the grounds of a charge against a gentleman who had been a member of that house—(hear, hear)—to suspend the writ would in his judgment be unjust towards the constituency of Berwick. Mr. WHITESIDE wished to state, as a member of the committee, that all the attorneys who were examined swore that there was no compromise. The house then divided— For the original motion .For the amendment . 218 . 60 Majority for the motion. THE ROTHERFHTHE SEIZURE. On the motion for going into committee of ways and means, Mr. DUNCOMBE rose and said—ln pursuance of the notice which appears in the journals of the house, I have now to ask the noble lord the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in consequence of two infor. mations of a political character having been laid against Wm. Hale, inventor and manufacturer of the patent war rocket, and the first of such informations having terminated in the said patentee (Wm. Hale) being adjudged to pay certain penalties to the Crown, it is the intention of her Majesty's Government to advise the Crown to proceed with the second information, laid under the provisions of a law passed during the reign of William 111., 1697, intituled " An act to prevent the throwing or firing of squibs, ser pents, and other fireworks." Now, sir, in asking this ques tion, I will state as shortly as possible not only my reasons for asking it, but exactly how the case stands at the pre sent moment as regards the defendant Hale ; and I think I shall be able to prove to the house that so absurd and ridi culous a prosecution as the present was never instituted by any British Government on political grounds. (Hear.) That this prosecution was instituted for political reasons and on political grounds, I think the noble lord the Secretary of State for the Home Department has already admitted in his place in this house; but if there be any doubt about it, you have only to look at the leading articles which have appeared in the organ of the Government, and certain ex tracts from which I will take the liberty of reading to the house. (Hear.) The first seizure of Mr. William Hale's property was made on the 14th of last month, and on the following day, the 15th, an article on the subject appeared in the Times. It commenced as follows :—" The British Government has not waited long for an opportunity of proving to all the world the sincerity of its resolution to put the law rigorously in force against such foreign refu gees residing in this country as have abused the tolerant hospitality of England by carrying on conspiracies against other states. We believe that we are correctly informed when we state that, upon intelligence received by the Se cretary of State for the Home Department and the Commis• sioners of Police for the Metropolis, active measures have been taken to substantiate the charges which have long been vaguely preferred against M. Kossuth .and his adhe rents. Upon this legal information a house in the occupa tion of M. Kossuth was searched yesterday morning at an early hour by the competent authorities, acting, we pre sume, under the Secretary of State's warrant, and the result of this investigation was the discovery of a large store of arms, ammunition, and materials of war, which may be the stock in trade of a political incendiary, but certainly form no part of the household goods of a private gentleman living m pacific retirement. Indeed, there is reason to believe that these preparations have been going on upon a scale entirely inconsistent with the notion of any mere private speculation, and must have had in view hostilities or insurrectionary movements of a very destruc tive character. We know not how long the attention of the Home-office has been directed to the suspicious proceed ings of the persons engaged in these lawless undertakings, but Lord Palmerston has shown his usual energy and skill in tracinc , the evil to its root ; and it is extremely satisfac tory that the Minister who has been so often identified with these adventurers by the ignorance or passion of foreign Governments should now have it in his power to Show, by conspicuous example, that the good order of society and the friendly relations of this country with foreign States are not to be violoted with impunity under his administration." Now, sir, I believe M. Kossuth has complained of having been libelled by this article, but in my opinion the noble lord the Secretary of State for the Home Department has more reason to complain, for I think he has been libelled by the. Times. (Hear, hear.) It is only two years ago since this house, after a long and interesting debate, passed a a resolution in approbation of the noble lord's foreign policy. I voted in favour of that resolution, because I thought the noble lord had taken an independent part in relation to foreign countries, and I am much surprised, therefore, to find the Times eulogising him for conduot quite the reverse. Still I retain my favourable opinion of the noble lord, and, whatever the Times may say, I think the noble lord is not " the Minister of Austria.' (Hoar.) In another article the Times says that the proceedings against the Hales are not for paltry penalties, but are for other State purposes. The exact words of the journalist aro :—" It would ho absurd to suppose that the active and energetic measures taken in this case, under the immediate direction of the Government, and by the Solicitor to the Treasury, are solely intended to recover this paltry penalty. We are confident that there is considerably more to be 1 disclosed than is yet before the public. fwe are not strangely misinformed, there are still important wit nesses who have not been examined on (this charge against Mr. Hale, for he only figures in the capacity of agent and manufacturer of rockets for other parties." Well, that is the opinion of the Times, but it has been confirmed by the speeches that have been made at Bow-street on the part of the Government. Now, sir, as I have said, Mr. Hale has had two informations laid against him. The first informa tion was brought under what is called the Gunpowder Act of George 111. Under that act he was adjudged to pay 2s. a lb. for 571bs. of a composition which was found on his premises at Rotherhithe, but which he maintains was not gunpowder, and which I believe no man ever thought was gunpower until it came to Bow-street. He had 2571b5. of this substance in his possession, but he was acknowledged to be a trader in gunpowder, and as traders are entitled to have 2001bs. on their premises, he was sentenced to pay 2s. a pound only on the remaining 571bs. But the truth is, Mr. Halo had carried on his works, had made his shells and rockets, close to Woolwich Arsenal, without let or hind rance, for a long period, and only a comparatively short time has elapsed since he removed to Rotherhithe, and so came within the provisions of the Gunpowder Act ; for I understand the act prohibits any person from keeping more than 2001bs. of gunpowder within three miles of the city of London, in case, I presume, my hon. colleague the Lord Mayor and the corporation of the city should bo blown up. (A laugh.) Under these circumstances Mr. Hale was con demned, though I won't say it did not appear very clear whether the composition found on his premises was gun powder or not. Witnesses wero produced on both sides. The witness brought forward by Mr. Hale, an experienced chemist, said it was nonsense to suppose the composition was gunpowder ' • but the witness produced on the part of the Government, said it was gunpowder ; while the firm with whom Mr. Hale was in the habit of dealing declared it was not supposed to be gunpowder by the trade. Poor Mr. Henry, the magistrate, was completely bewildered ; but he went home, took down his " Encyclopaedia Britan nia'," and looked to see what gunpowder really was. (A laugh.) Three days afterwards he re-appears on the bench at Bow-street, does not say a single word about the evi , deuce which had been given by competent witnesses, but says—" I have found in the Encyclopaedia Britannia that this after all is gunpowder, because our ancestors for merly used gunpowder in an ungranulated state, and the granulation of gunpowder is only an invention of modern times." And so he granulated Mr. Hale—(a laugh)—adjudging him to pay a penalty of 5L 14s. Such was the end of State prosecution number one. (Laughter.). Let us now proceed to number two. Upon the last occasion referred to, Mr. Bodkin, the coun sel for the Crown, informed. he magistrate that there was another information to which his attention would by-and by be directed, and as to which, circumstances would be detailed which he would not now anticipate, but which would impart another character to these transactions. Everybody knew that the meaning of this was, that it was intended to identify M. Kossuth with the proceedings and transactions of Mr. Hale, that a great explosion was to take place on the part of the Government, and that °in. custances were to be disclosed, showing that there had, been a dreadful conspiracy between M. Kossuth and Mr. Hale, and that it was their intention to blow up every Government in Europe which they might happen not to like. (A laugh.) The act under which information No. 2 was laid, was an act passed in the 9th year of William 111., 1697, and one which, I will venture to say, has been a complete dead letter since within a very few years after its passing ; and what I complain of, and what the people of England complain of, is, that a State prosecution should be carried on under such an Act of Parliament as this. It is intituled "An act to prevent the throwing or firing of squibs, serpents, and other fire works," and its object, as stated in the preamble, was to avert the danger to the lives, limbs, and eyes of the lieges, which had been found to result from the practice which then prevailed of letting off fireworks in the open air. The act provides that the manufacture or sale of any rockets, squibs, serpents, or other fireworks, or of cases or moulds for the same, on and after the 25th of March, 1698, by any person of hat • the c e : infl e iction degree, or c o al r a u enquali ty a apenalty t so ever, of v endesrl,. allowing foshallr eachl t hop offence Board punished e a; d r ( buo ytthf Ordnance to make rockets, and the Artillery Company, the Militia, and Train Bands, to manufacture and use fire works. Now sir, there can be no doubt at all that under this act Mr. Hale, in making rockets and shells, has been guilty of a violation of the law ; everybody will admit that ; Mr. Hale himself admits it. But if he has been guilty, of a violation of the law, so has every person who, has made a rocket, so have those who manufacture rocketa, scinibs, serpents, and crackers for Vauxhall and Cremorne —(a laugh) —and so has every manufacturer of lucifor matches in this country. (Hear, hoar, 4114 laughter.) I wilt who has ever thqnolit of institutin g i a political prose cution under this act ? (Hear, hear.) Why, Mr. Henry, the magistrate, appears to have been ashamed of the whole transaction, and glad to get rid of it. He heard the evidence of certain w it nesses, among !toot wore Wee fiilff itißicqpla Rot Timlgariaris—politioal exiles, who had been o jects of charity in the eyes of M. Kossuth, and who had received assistance at his hands. One of them, it appears from his own statement, had enjoyed English h osp it a lity fora period of four months on illck treadmill in Maidstone 901. Ejeav, has The others 'ore efeoans.; gnEl‘ tikvvile6lo; having been fohnerli connected with the artillery, an d wins sup • THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVVNI-NG, MAY el, 1853, posed to know something about the manufacture of rockets and shells, were out of charity recommended by M. Kossuth to Mr. Hale, who consented to give them work at eighteen shillings a week. A great deal has been made of the statement of these men, that they were desired not to talk in public houses of what was going on in the factory at Rotherhithe. Now really, sir, I see nothing in this which is not capable of satisfactory explanation. The men might be told not to talk in public-houses, because the work carried on might be misrepresented, as it un questionably has been, for I maintain that the Govern ment has been grossly deceived and misinformed. (Hear, hear.) Well, sir, having heard the evidence of these poli tical refugees, Mr. Henry resolved not to decide the case summarily ; in fact he was again bewildered, and being unable to extricate himself from the difficulty by consult ing the " Encyclopaedia Britannica," he wisely deter mined to send the case over to the Surrey magistrates, who, sitting close to Vauxhall, he thought would be good judges of the matter. (A laugh.) So stands the case at the present moment. Now then, sir, I would ask, is this a worthy or a dignified course for any Government of this country to pursue? (Hear, hear.) If M. Kossuth and Mr. Hale have been guilty of any conspiracy to levy war against any of those countries with which we are now upon terms of amity, I say indict them boldly and openly for that conspiracy ; but if they have not been guilty of such an offence, do not rake up an old act of Parliament that has slept for the last 120 years even with regard to the making of fireworks. (Hear, hear.) But what are all these proceedings for ? Nothing, lam sure, can be more unpalatable to the great body of the people of this country, who look upon the whole transaction as far as it has gone with unmitigated disgust. (Cheers.) I believe it is bring ing the Government, to whom we all wish well, and to whom we are disposed to give a fair trial, into such disre pute with the mass of the people as few Governments have experienced. I ask, sir, who is this transaction to please ? m The popular impression is th a t it i s to please some foreign Government—to please th e A us t r i an Government ; and, indeed, I think we have suff ic i en t ev i dence of the fact in t is 0 ( nHee of (Hear.) noble This lords a pointth the t somewhich o the heg foreignt eecall thejo u attention Sec retary of State for the Home Department. Very recently a paragraph appeared in a Frankfort paper, headed, "The English Police the Spies of Foreign Despots." It ran as follows :—" It is now confirmed that the Prussian police were most efficiently assisted in the late political arrests at Berlin and elsewhere by repeated communications from the police at London, without which many of their disclosures might not have been made ; and we see a proof of the good faith of the British Government when, through Lord Westmoreland, it assume the Cabinet of Vienna that it will watch over the conduct of the refugees • and we learn from other sources that the Lond on police have for some time kept a list of all the fugitives residing there, and watch over their communications with the conti nent." What, sir, must Europe think of England unless she gives forth some contradiction of such injurious statements? (Hear, hear.) It is quite right that the police of London, or any other police, should communicate with foreign Governments, in the event of persons seeking refuge here being guilty of felony, or murder, or something of that sort ; but the Government has no right, or the police have no right, to communicate with foreign Govern ments upon political subjects—upon any political crime that is committed here, or may have been committed abroad ; and, indeed, our police have no right to commu nicate with the police of foreign Governments at all. They were not instituted for that purpose. (Hear, hear.) But now I am to show that Austria had really something to do with these seizures at Rotherhithe. In the Augsburg Gazette of the 14th April—remember Mr. Halo's property was seized on the 13th—there appeared an article, dated Munich; April 12, and expressed in the following terms : - - "At London revolution is allowed to take counsel and fill her arsenals with destructive weapons, rockets, bsc." Now, I think it is natural to infer from this that some commu nication had passed between certain parties in authority here and the informants of the Augsburg Gazette. (Hear, hear.) So, sir, the Times was not, after all, far wrong when it said that the Government of this country had been urged by Austria to look after the refugees, and that it was determined to show its willingness to do so. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, think her Majesty's Mini s t ers , w h en they are applied to by Austria or any other foreign power on the subject of political fugitives, ought to tell the Go vernment appealing to them to look at the free institutions of this country—ought to remind them of the confiscations of Lombardy, and the cruelties and tortures that recently disgraced Milan and Mantua—ought to let them know that such is not the way to gain the affections of their subjects —and ought to return for answer to their request, that in terference with refugees in this country will never be sub mitted to by the people of England. (Cheers.) No, sir, we want none of their Radetskys here. (Hear, hear.) I, therefore, beg to ask whether her Majesty's Ministers think it worth while to pursue this prosecution any further against Mr. Hale ? Mr. Hale admits that in making rockets and shells he has violated an old act of Parliament. He has already paid a penalty of N. 145., of which only one-half goes to the Crown, the other being paid over to the informer ; and I want to know if it is the intention of the Government to carry the prosecution further, either against Mr. Hale or against any other person whatever? (Hear, hear.) Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, my hon. friend has treated this matter with his usual admixture of jocularity and argu ment, and certainly if there were an old act of Parliament for prohibiting moral squibs and crackers, I think my hon. Mend. would come within itspros;sions. (A laugh.) Now, sir, my hou. friend charges me with being an organ and instru • • instru ment of foreign powers for the purpose of exercising here a foreign police over persons in this country, and in support of that accusation he quotes passages' that he has found in foreign newspapers, as well as passages from an English journal. Now I beg, in the first place, to d'sclaim any re sponsibility es to any thing said of me in any newspaper, whether British or foreign ; and if my hon. friend had had his attention directed as much as mine has happened to be, and from time to time, to passages in foreign newspapers in which my name was mentioned, I think he would have found that the weight of accusation and of calumny was very much of a different kind from that which he has quoted. (Hear, hear.) I was told the other day that in tho searches recently made in Italy there was a set of dag gers found of English manufacture, and that the authori ties wore indignant and incensed at the detestable and diabolical conduct of the man who had been Minister for Foreign Affairs in England, for on these very daggers his name was inscribed. (A laugh.) They said " There it is plain enough—Palmer and Son. Oh, the execrable revo lutionist ! to send destructive weapons inscribed with his own name into Italy." (Great laughter). My hon. friend' has indulged in a groat deal of humour in regard to the prosecutions which I have thought it my duty to institute. Now, I did not in the least disguise—l have never dis guised the ground upon which I thought it my duty to in stitute these prosecutions. It was not that Mr. Hale had a few pounds of gunpowder in his possession, or carried on the trade of making shells and rockets for ordinary pur poses ; but when I was informed that there was a great collection of warlike stores accumulated in an out of the way place, under circumstances of secrecy, and when I coupled that with other circumstances which tended to show that there was a purpose, the object of which was be yond the limits of this country, and not connected with the legitimate interests of commerce, I felt it my duty to inquire whether these proceedings were or were not con trary to law. (Hear, hear.) I was told they wore con trary to law, and therefore I think I should have neglected my duty in the office which I have the honour to hold if I had not taken such steps as the law appeared to authorise for the purpose of putting a stop to those proceedings. (Hear, hear.) I hold that in doing that I have consulted the honour and dignity of the country. (Hear, hear.) My colleagues aid myself, and not only the members of the pre sent Government, but also the members of the late, and in deed of all governments, have repeatedly declared in Parlia ment, that while, on the one hand, f ore i gners who take re fuge in this country aro entitled to every possible protection which the laws and freedom of this realm can afford, it was the duty of the Government, on the other hand, to pre vent any foreigner, as well as any British subject from, pursuing or being concerned in any proceeding or under taking for the purpose of threatening the tranquility of foreign States. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, my hon. friend has made merry about the question whether the gunpowder found at Rotherhithe was really gunpowder or not. That question havine been decided by a legal and competent authority, I think I may say that I never heard of such a quibble as that by which it was attempted to be shown that the substance in question was not gunpowder. I think that the magistrate was perfectly , right in his decision. With regard to the rockets, my honourable friend asks me whether it is the intention of her Majesty's Govern ment to continue the proceedings which have been com menced. Now I have no hesitation in saying that we have no desire to press hardly in any way whatever on Mr. Hale ; and I have no hesitation, either, in saying, as to the last interrogatory of my hon. friend, that the evidence we have received does not bear out or justify any pro ceedings against any other person, whether British or foreign, except Mr. H a l e . (Hear, hear.) But, with regard to Mr. Hale, lot the house remember hew the matter stands. The act under which Mr. Hale was proceeded against prohibits any person from making, or using, or selling any rockets, unless they have the consent of the Ordnance, with the exception always of the Artillery Com pany and the Militia, who are permitted to make and use rockets for the purposes of war. Under that act there are two methods of proceeding, the one by summary convic tion before a magistrate, and the other by trial by indict ment before a court and jury. We adopted the first of these courses as the simplest and the shortest, and the least troublesome to any party. The case was opened ; the evidence against Mr. Hale was satisfactory ; but the magistrate then stopped the proceedings, and said that he thought they ought to be referred to another court, in I order that the matter might be tried by a jury. Now, sir, I hold that, upon general principles, it is a Vex?' bad precedent to com mence proceedings against any individual, and then to stop them before they come to trial. (H ear , hear.) It is li a bl e t o groat abuse ; for you ma y b egin pro- I ceedings without any justifiable cause, for the purp ose o f causing annoy ance an d trouble to an individual, and then, if, in order to avoid discomfiture, you stop the p rocee d s ings, you giveparty no opportunity of stating his case. the (Hear, boar.) I • general principles. The speaking now upon The party against whom you acted in that manner would have the, right to proceed against the Government for a malicious prosecution, and would have a case for remedy for the evil sustained by him. But if that be so, generally ,speaking, and upon abstract principles, I think the case ' would be much stronger against the Government in the present instance ; because here, what will be said ? wh y, that the Government began proceedings before a magis trate with summary jurisdiction, which were stopped when ; the case had been stated against the defendant, and when he had had no opportunity of saying anything in his defence—no opportunity of shaking the evidence of witnetses, or of proving that the grounds stated were not suilicient to bear out the prosecution. The case is 'sent to a jury; but what do the Government then? I 'Why they retiro from the proceeding, and that their case will not bear sifting before a jury; they drop the pro ceedings, and deprive the individual of that redress which his character would otherwise obtain. (Hear, hear.) I am therefore advised that it would not be fit as a precedent, as a general precedent, or in regard to general eases, that the proceeding-a against Mr. Hale 'should he stopped, but tribal should be that the judgment of a competent . ob tained on the matter. , At the sam etime I hay© no hesita tion in saying, on the part of her Majesty's Governm en t, that I have no wish te, I:wee hardly on Mr. Hale • we shallth be perfectly sa 0,40 to have a decision on Q law, and g taken place, Mr. Hale* I trust, will that 44%19411-- wrin by having his ca.* pushed to thi s "ilex in anyhear, way y and cheers.) limit. (Hear, Mr. T. DUNCOMB E wished Se, ocrrect a mistak e i n t o which the noble lord ha 4 Wises, The noble lord seemed to think that he, ( i 3 k• Duncaes he* lne aci r char g ed him • h bein g had donew w ith such age tel 3 `Tere l ly gu a oted the words of the Times. So PTa* • the noble lord a tool of Austria, he had ar from thinking M. K h indebted to'him for always believed that omit was r wasroceoct.. his life and his property. Mid 4A. member p ing to mak:e a remark respecting Mr. Hale, w h en l ou d cr i es of "order compellad him to resume his seat. Lord D. STUART had heard what had fallen from the noble lords the Secretary for the Home Department with very great pleasure. lie had understood him to say that there was no evidence implicating any person whatever, except Mr. Hale, wh o was under prosecution, and there fore it followed th a t a ll th e statements which had been made to implicate Kossuth in these proceedings, as if he had been -abusing the hospitality o f t h is country 'by enter ing into rinlawful designs and preparing to levy war on a country with which we were at amity, were but baseless fabrics and unfounded calumnies. (Hear, hoar, and cheers.) The accusation had gone out to the' world that large stores of ammunition had been discovered in a house in the occupation of Kossuth, and the whole world was called upon to execrate a man who, after has:ng received the hosj )itality of this country and being delivered from the dangers to which he had been exposed, could so disgrace himself. Now it turned out that all that was an imagination, a vile imagination of persons animated by some rancour against Kossuth, who had always shown themselves to be in the interest of Austria and Russia, and who had persecuted that man by all the means in their Power because of his opposition to those governments in bravely and nobly defending the constitution of his coun try. (Hear, and cheers.) Instead of waiting to hear what the verdict in the case would be, those persons hastened, in their malignant spite, to condemn Kossuth unheard, and in order to hold him up to detestation they assumed at once that he was guilty, and referring to what might be called the centre of the city of Loudon, the rooms whore 'she municipal body of the city of London assembled, they dared to point out that Guildhall was not far from the Old Bailey. He (Lord Dudley Stuart) could not help saying that, after the statement they had heard completely excul pating Kossuth from these vile accusations, seine circum stances or events might possibly occur which, in the end, might demonstrate that if Guildhall were not far from the Old Bailey, there was another place, called Printing-house square, which was still nearer to it. (Hear, hear.) Ho thought that the declaration o f th e no bl e lord did him hon our. He was glad to find that her Majesty's Government were not concerned in those proceedings which had been attributed to them. It had been said, and he believed ti uly, that the noble lord the Secretary for the Home Department had been the main cause, if not of saving the life of the illustrious man to whom he (Lord Dudley Stuart) had referred, at any rate of his being delivered from captivity, and now enjoying liberty. (Hear.) He knew that there was another Government, that of the United States, which laid claim to this merit, and he ren dered full justice to the noble feeling which the American Government and nation had displayed on that occasion, but at the same time he believed that they might have used what means they pleased, and have carried on what negotiations they could, but that if it had not been for the noble lord then at the head of the Foreign-office, those un fortunate patriots would still be detained in prison at Kutayah. (Hear, hear.) It would, then, be a melancholy spectacle, if afterwards in this country the noble lord were to treat those refugees in a manner worse than the Turkish Government had ever treated them. The Turkish Govern ment had detained them in captivity to please Austria and Russia, but it had not done so of its own free will, rand its proceedings bad been perfectly open - when its prisoners went out to take exer c i se th ey wore followed by soldiers ; they were tricked by no men in disguise, nor by the police of the Government. Ho (Lord Dudley Stuart) said that it was a nobler course to take to tell these men that they were prisoners, and to treat them as such, than to tell them that they enjoyed all the rights and privileges of the sub jects of this country, while at the same time they were basely watched by persons in disguise. (Hear, hear.) He thanked the noble lord for his declaration, and if he re gretted any 'shing it was that the noble lord had not taken an earlier opportunity of making that declaration. Mr. BRIGHT—It appears, I think, from what has taken place, that the noble lord at the head of the Home Depart. ment has been engaged in that undignified employment of hunting for a mare's nest. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) I agree with my hon. fiend the member for Finsbury as to the paltriness and shabbiness of these proceedings, even as regards Mr. Hale, but I do not think that the case with regard to Kossuth is of the same character, nor that it ought to be regarded by the house in the same light. (Hear, hear.) One is a simple affair of a mischievous police inter ference, which turns out to be nothing at all, and is of a very different character from that which has induced me to advert to this subject. The noble lord says that he has no evidence whatever on which to found any charge in connection with these transactions, except against Mr. Hale. How far he has any grounds against Mr. Hale we have beard, for it appears that the noble lord would be glad to get out of the mess he is in, if he did not think that it would be undignified for the Government to give up the prosecution. But the noble lord knows the impression which has been created on this question; first, by the statements in the newspapers, and afterwards by the noble lord's own statement in this house. Ido not charge the noble lord with having made any direct accusation against Kossuth ; but the house will recollect that in all his for mer observations the noble lord studiously avoided saying anything flat could be quoted as clearing the character of Kossuth, and he left the statements of the Times news paper to have their full effect upon the world, although at the time he was in possession of precisely the same know ledge of the case that he was now, and had the power of clearing the character of Kossuth. (Hear, hear.) The Times has been referred to, as it must be with regard to this matter, and I shall make an observation on that jour nal. The Times newspaper, I presume, we all know is a great power in a mask—(hear, hear, hear) ;—we do not see the hand that writes th ose ies ; but there is no man in London calling himself a gentleman who durst have put his signature to the article relating to Kossuth. (Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) There is a gentleman, a member of this house, who is not now present, but if he were present I would tell him what I say now, that he durst not—l speak of one who is notoriously connected with that paper —I say he durst not have put his name to that article in which those charges were brought against Kossuth. (Hear, hear, and murmurs.) I can tell the Times that it was pre cisely by conduct like this, by which scandalous and lying charges were brought against honourable men, that the press of France lost all character with the people of France, and that during the existence of the Republic tho middle class and all the people of Paris looked on with disregard and almost with pleasure while the papers, ono after ano ther, wore brought under the penalties of the law, and, finally, they looked on without any opposition, and appa rently without any discontent, when first of all newspaper writers wore forced to put their names to every article, and afterwards three-fourths of all the papers were suppressed. (Hear.) I am not particularly thin-skinned—I do not com plain as caritig one straw about it; but by way of illustration only, I may mention that the Times of this morning says it is glad that I had the decency—l speak from memory—not to appear before Lord Clarendon yesterday with a deputation which waited on the noble Lord to request that ho would con sent to the introduction of a certain clause into the treaty with the United States, when it is known that the United States Legislature was willing to have such a clause intro duced. The Times says it is well I had the decency not to go with that deputation, because I had lately been defending the manufacture of rockets and other warlike stores which have been so much talked about. Now if Mr. Anybody— I do not know his name —who directs that newspaper, or who wrote that article, were to come before the public, do you think there is any man who walks about the West-end of London, and calls himself a gentleman, who would have written that article, and would have attached his name to it? (Hear, hear.) Well, I say it is a cowardly thing, that a statement like this should be made ' • and it is doubly in famous, when these stat emen t s are to be made to under. mine and to destroy the character of a man suffering under misfortune, an exile from his country, who is trusted by millions of his countrymen, and who, thou g h li v i ng i n adversity, is yet buoyed up by the hope that some day or other he may be able to do something for the liberty of his country. (Hear, and cheers.) I say it is doubly infamous for a powerful organ of the press to attack a man of that character without any ground of fact on which to found its statement, and thus attempt to destroy his character and reputation, and influence. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord has admitted two things. He has admitted that there is no charge against Kossuth or against any other person, ex cept Mr. Halo, and h o s t a t e d th e other night that so long as ho had been connected with the Home-office, now about four months, the practice of opening letters had not been re sorted to, and I think he entirely and satisfactorily settled that question. (Hear, hear.) But there is another point which has been adverted to, and that is the system of espionage. Now the noble lord, on the 7th of February, 1850, in speaking of the detention of the Hungarians in Turkey, said that the Turkish Government had undertaken to confine them for a limited time under surveillance, a word to which there was no corresponding term in the English language. Now I wish to ask him this, whether it be true, as it has been stated, apparently on good au thority, that some policemen, or some persons acting as such, are charged to watch and report upon whatever they may observe about Kossuth's house? (Hear, hear.) I want to ask the noble lord whether, if that be so, those proceed ings have been taken by the authority of the Home-office, and whether the expenses connected with them are de frayed by the Government or out of any metropolitan rates, or whether they are defrayed by the Austrian Government or embassy. (Flea; hear.) I wish that he would clear that matter up. I believe these proceedings to bo without the slightest justification. I think what has been stated lately in the papers has caused an unpleasant feeling with reeard to the Government and o ur w h o l e sys t em, th a t it is not b so above board as we pretend it is ; and that although we talk a great deal, and mouth about our system and our hospitality, that we have shown to exiles we are doing pre cisely what is done in many parts of the continent of Europe at this moment. If the noble lord will give some contradiction to that statement, as ho has done to others, there will be no member who will be more happy than myself to hear it. (Hear, hear.) Mr. OTWAY said that the noble lord the member for Tiverton had twitted the honourable member for Man chester the other night for his gross ignorance of the con stitution of this country, and had said that if there wero grounds for suspecting any foreigner or Englishman of being engaged in proceedings hostile to any foreign Govern ment he would have been justified in taking those pro ceedings with regard to M. Kossuth, which had been attributed to him. [Lord Palmerston : I did not say that.] The noble lord had not always entertained such sentiments; for it was not long ago that he had received at his official residence in Downing-street a deputation from Islington which presented an address couched in language somewhat strong as regarded a Sovereign with whom we were on terms of amity, and that deputation had resulted in the retirement of the noble lord from the Cabinet of which he was at that time a member. For the noble lord now to turn round suddenly, and to speak of Kossuth and the other refugees in the tone which he bad used, was a cir cumstance which must cause regret to the admirers of the noble lord. Lord PALMERSTON : The honourable member has entirely misstated me. My observations the other evening applied to what I conceived to be the endeavour of the honourable member for Manchester to extort from me an opinion as to the possible result of the proceedings at law then in progress. (Hear, hear.) I considered him to ask what would be the effect on Kossuth of the proceedings then going on ; and I stated that it would be very uncon stitutional to give an opinion on that subject. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the police, I beg to say that what ever burden has to be borne on that account, is borne by this country. (Hear, hear.) The honourable member for Manchester refers to a statement which I made on a former occasion, to the effect that what is called surveillance is a state of things unknown in this country. Now a state of surveillance is this, that an individual is not allowed to go beyond certain limits, and he is watched by competent authorities to prevent him from doing so. Undoubtedly it is ono of the duties of the police to ascertain whether the laws of the country are infringed, and if they have reason to think that any given individual is engaged in proceedings contrary to the law, it is the duty of the police to take measures for the purpose of informing the Government, and if they had reas o n t o think that Kossuth or any other person was engaged in proceedings contrary to law, they were bound to ascertain whether there was or was not any ground for that suspicion. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT : I want to repeat my question. The noble lord has merely told us what everybody knows. Now, I want to ask the noble lord this question : has he, in his office, or by directions through his office, has any police magistrate or comm i ss i oner g i ven any spec i al directions that policemen shall watch the house and pro ceedings of Kossuth in this metropolis. (Hear, hear.) Lord PALMERSTON—I have given no special direc tions with regard to Kossuth, but it is the general duty of the police, if th ey have any suspicion about any person, as they probably had in this case, to ascertain the facts upon which a charge may be substantiated, or may be otherwise disposed of. (Hear, hear.) Mr. COP,DEN then rose to address some further ques tion to tho Home Secretary, but The SPEAKER said that the noble lord the member for Tiverton had already spoken twice, and was not en titled to speak again on this question. The subject then dropped for a few moments, and was succeeded by a brief interlude about MINISTERS' MONEY . Mr. PAGAN begged to ask the right hon. gentleman the Secretary for Ireland whether a measure on the sub ject of ministers' money would be brought forward during the present session, and, if s o , w h e th er it would be intro duced bef ore or after 'Whitsuntide ? Sir J. YOUNG replied that the question of ministers' money was one which had occupied the attention of the Government for a long time past. The draft of a bill had been prepared, but be did not wish to present it to the house without making a prelimi nary statement. As soon as he could get a day for the purpose he would introduce the bill. (Hear.) Mr. MAGUIRE said that this question had been pitched about from one Government to another, and he should be glad to bo informed whether it was really the intention of the Government to bring in a measure on the subject this session? Sir J. YOUNG could only reply by asking the hon, member what ground 'he had for doubting his (Sir J, Young's) word ?_ TheefOrmer subject was then resumed by Mr. COBDEN—I suppose, sir, you are the authority without appeal on all points of order, but if it be the rule of the house that the Minister for the Home Department can only be allowed to answer one question on such an oc casion and on such a subject as we have been discussing, I think it would be well to consider whether it might not bo well to relax it in order to promote the dispatch of busi ness. If, however, the noble lord, the Home Secretary, cannot answer the question I wish to put, probably the noble lord the member for London (Lord J. Russell) can. I wish to impress upon the house that we are not here dealing with the ordinary case of an ordinary person. We are dealing with a man who was long engaged in main taining in his own country the legality of the constitution of that country, and he was supported by the whole body, not of the poorer classes merely, but of the whole of the aristocracy. I say that when such a man comes to this country, having held that distinguished post of honour, his case is not that of an ordinary refugee, but it is that of a man placed under the safeguard of this country, the in cidents of whose life are minutely watched by the world, and will be as minutely recorded in the history of the times—and as he is treated by us will honour or discredit attach to us in reference to him. (Hear, hear.) When I first read of this matter, and when I first read the state ment in the Times, I thought it my duty to call on M. Kossuth and ask him if there was any foundation for that statement, and he gave me his word as a man of honour that he had no more concern with the transactions re ferred to by the writer in that paper than had the Speaker of the House of Commons. (Hear, hear.) It was true, he said, he had recommended a foreign refugee (one who had not done him much credit--(hear)—to Mr. Hale for employment, but he had no connexion with Mr. Hale, or with the manufacture carried on by him. He was invited to call on Mr. Hale to go over his factory as I might have been, and as I have been invited to go over Mr. Colt's factory ; and I might as well be charged with being connected with Mr. Colt on that ground, as M. Kossuth was charged with being connected with Mr. Hale. And with regard to recommending a man for employment, M. Kossuth has numerous unfortunate refugees constantly calling upon him to aid them in obtaining employment, and I am speaking within the mark when I say I have had at least a dozen applications from M. Kossuth to assist his countrymen in that way. This is the whole basis of the charge. Some prying individual found that a Hungarian was working at Mr. Hale's, and because M. Kossuth re commended him he connected that gentleman with the rocket manufacture carried on by Mr. Hale. Now, I think it would not have been below the dignity of the Home Secretary, if he had given the opportunity to M. Kossuth to clear himself. I do not think the ex-Governor of Hungary is so far below the dignity of the Home Secre tary of England as to make such a course impossible. And if the noble lord had done so, if instead of sending police men to watch M. Kossuth's house, and dog him about, h e had taken mean s t o a ll ow that gentleman to explain, and if the noble lord had thus obtained, as he would have done, M. Kossuth's word of honour, that he had no connection with anything of the kind charged against him, that would have been sufficient—for he apprehended M. Kossuth was as much entitled to credence as any member of the Orleans family visiting our Court. I make no distinctions, and as regards M. Kossuth I think he i s a s muc h entitled to re spect and honour as any member of the Orleans family, who are habitually received at Windsor. (Hear.) I make no complaint of the hospitality that is shown to the Or leans family ; but I say that it would be disgraceful to any man in this country, and more especially to any mem ber of this house, if he did not vindicate the right to hospi tality of this country, on behalf of those who carry with them the good-will of the mass of their own countrymen, which is the case with M. Kossuth, and if any one is al lowed to dog the steps of illustrious refugees, and it is found out, we are bound to visit it with our robrobation, and public opinion will do the same. I have seen M. Kos suth, and have advised with him. I told him—" You live under the same law as I do, but if you ask me what the law of England is, I cannot tell you, for at any mo ment some old law may be exhumed for a particular occa sion, as has been done now." I advised him to put him self under the advice of a shrewd lawyer, and I do not believe he will be caught violating the law of the country, for which he has too much respect. The question I want to put to the noble lord is, whether any communication has been made to the magistrates, or the police authorities with reference to any proceedings for watching the house of M. Louis Kossuth. (Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL—Before I answer the question which the hon. gentleman has put, I must advert to the former part of his speech, because it is of great importance that we should have some notion as to what is the policy of this country towards these and other refugees ; and I quite agree with the hon. gentleman when he says that we ought to apply the same rule to all refugees, and I care little what may be their ran k or s t a ti on. It may be a prince of high lineage who maintains extreme doctrines with regard to absolute monarchy, or it may be a person of humble station who holds extreme notions with regard to republi can institutions ; I care not which it may be, the rule ought to be the same. (Hear, hear.) Then what is that rule ? It is not so very obscure in its general principle. It is founded in the first place on the law of England, and in the second place it is founded on that law in relation to the great international law which governs the intercourse of nations. The law of England allows refugees, from whatever cause they may have suffered, or by whatever power they may have been proscribed, to come to this country and live undisturbed. This is the general law, and in accordance with that law many persons of various ranks have of late years taken refuge here ; and that honourable distinction of this country is not owing to any minister of the present day, but it is the ancient law of this country that any one can find refuge here, and I will never depart from th a t l aw o f j us t and equalhospitality. But if on the one hand that is clearly the law, on the other hand it can as little be doubted that refugees who receive our hospitality, and who reside in safety under the shadow of our laws, so long as they are in safety ought not to abuse that hospitality by levying war against any other country, whether it be a republic or a monarchy, which is at peace with this country. It has been said, with respect to the individual in question, that M. Kossuth was a per son of illustrious rank, who was governor of Hungary, and who had endeavoured to maintain the ancient constitution of that country. I will not enter into any controversy on that subject ; but I may say that there some who assert that there are two opinions on that point. It is thought by some persons that he fought on behalf of the cause of Hungary, and that he did all that a patriot could to maintain her ancient constitution. But there are others who think that, from want of judgment and im prudence, he had damaged the character of the con stitution of that country, and brought her into collision with Austria, and so was the author of the calamities which had befallen her. There aro those two opi nions entertained, and it is not for me to say which is the right one. However M. Kossuth comes to this country and receives our hospitality; he comes not like a person who was unknown, but as one who came with a liberty which he had obtained chiefly through the exertions of my noble friend when Secretary for Foreign Affairs; who, speaking in the name of England, urged on Turkey to per severe in the hospitality which, to her honour, she had afforded to those exiles, and even offered the support of the arms of this country to Turkey if she should be attacked while performing the duties of hospitality ; and, finally, he urged on Turkey not to continue the confinement of M. Kossuth, but to allow him to come to this country. I say then, if any one ought to be bound not only by the general law of this country, which breathes such a spirit of hospi tality, but by peculiar ties of gratitude to the Govern ment, M. Kossuth is bound to obey the laws of this coun try, and not to do anything which may involve her in any cause of quarrel with any nation. The hon. gentleman says that M. Kossuth has scrupulously obeyed the laws which ho found to be in force, and has lived without giv ing any cause of offence to those who administer them. The hon. gentleman is well acquainted with M. Kossuth, and the fact may be as he has stated it. At the same time I cannot wonder that suspicions should be aroused of a contrary nature ; for we cannot but recollect that we have seen in the newspaper to which the hon. gentleman has referred a letter or proclamation addressed by M. Kossuth to the subjects of a foreign sovereign, calling on them to rise against that sovereign, and urging his soldiers to leave their colours and engage in hostility of the most deadly . kind li sh e d a i g u a against connection state, u w has been stated on behalf tha o n t hd M e t . ihn K astu os rrep s r u Gec th tliao t mn ha aa t tti h oMn e wi h laas a n d p n u o i l b e t t in n ut i tori ß se u d t i i t t s i p s u c b e l rt i ain that t n w d h th en at h c s h w ar a g s es a h t ad iz b u e ts en y the t ga v e duty t paper y o f insurrection this k nd to t° athpeerson, thus . pointing I subjects of Austri a a mh . oadhu wsahylltehartesiitdiwugasinanaifmorepruigudeenotunantdryrjtousgiivfieaablp:e act a rn i .to n him, Nauoyt one to be used for the purposes of men thatonly i t t h iiss, his w e i p r u a rp v e seen t o it ui l a a k t e e I w y Ar a vo o w n ds sovereigns e M i g s Kossuth that it is his uiso to make war on sovereigns against protests, au d w and heu wwheo add d e on o the hon. member for terms e s o t f yl i nn ty y and s th b etheui whoses stated rule c u country r ye by are put together, i t. the is g e gentleman etmobla Nfvomn Commissionersy" the West Riding—namely, that several Hungarians o this that which con nected with M. Kossuth were employed in the manufacture of rockets for the purposes of war—l say that when all circumstancesat the police should suspect that he had some i dt n he t e mes n ed ti a o t n th of levying war against a foreign sovereign. With noble regard friend, to t the all t question ha t I a e s a k n e d state b y theis, that hon affectinlc, M. of Police from time to time make repwinohrdetustehoeef circumstances whether e a ny to ot t h h e e r ir pe k r nwl e oonwedhgiee,h m rime is meditated'. I do not thi n h k era it t? ig b h e t ue f v o e r more than thi s , f or my noble friend has said twKr which to h o u a u t hya° comet that there is no evidence on which xtran.indictment could be faolwunadyeedmaagianitnasitn maintain, that t p w er h so il n e o b n u the one But w ß e u a t re l bo sh un all d to extend our hospitality to those persons, on. the other hand we aro bound by our obtlhigiastions to foreign states not that which my right hon. friend ticiountrY to he to allow persons residing in deeelmareedmbther fo b r e when he was Home Secretary, m gu ae i r l ep t r y eimth o e f , against the law of this country—th against foreign states. I wish at is, the levying war to say a few words more with regard to a statemoat which hail been made, that el these proceedings arose in consequence of communications received from the Government of Austria. The nature of the communications which have been made to us by the Government of Austria I will state in general terms. Nothing in the nature of a demand or specific requirement has been made by the Government of Austria to the Government of this country. On the contrary, the Go vernment of Austria has repeatedly stated that they asked nothing, and wished it t o b e un d ers t oo d th a t no d eman d was made by them ; but they have stated that they felt aggrieved by proceedings which were carried on here, but that it was for the government of England, on which they placed perfect reliance, to take such measures as they should think fit with reg ar d to them. It was not unnatural, when insurrection was going on, that they should represent that their Government was disturbed, and liable to attacks from various quarters, and that sometimes attempts at as. sassination were made by men connected with persons who are attempting to overthrow the Government of the coun try ; and we know that many of those who are connected with those proceedings are in England. Ido not say that these complaints are justified, but it is the bounden duty of the Government, while they say we will not change our law, and we will allow all persons to come to and remain in this country undisturbed, to see that the laws of this country, and our international relations are not violated. (Hear, hear.) Sir .T. WALMSLEY said the noble lord was in error in supposing that the letter or proclamation to which he had alluded was written in this country. So far from its being written in this country, it was written when M. Kossuth was a prisoner, and before he had ever been in England. The most serious hardship against M. Kossuth was the employme n t o f spies. That charge had not yet been an swered. (Hear, hear.) It w as a mos t gr i evous ou t rag e that the police should clog the steps of that illustrious exile, and of all those who called upon him or inquired after him. If he rightly understood the noble lord, he (Sir J. Walms ley) could assure him that this question would not rest here. (Cheers.) If what was stated was true that per sons were ab so l u t e l y sent to the house of M. kossuth to s ssist in th e remova l o f h is goods that they might act as pies about the premises, then it was clear that those per sons must have been employed by somebody—if not by the noble lord at the head of the Home Department, then it must have been by the police. (Hear, hear.) A corn wimointa lo of inqui r y ought to b e i ns tit u t e d ; and if no one else hear.) so, he would himself move for an inquiry. (Hear, Til ho E us e ßU th D e G n E W T z A i D nto JOUß nom N m E itte D o E f ßA W T a ll y . B and The Means. The resolution for raising a supply by way of duties on all property in the United Kingdom being read, Mr. LAWLESS rose to move, by way amendment that the words " Great Brit a i n " b e substituted for " United Kingdom." If he were asked why he had not voted in the minority the other night, he would reply that he was not only member for Clonmel, but had an interest in the budget, as a question for the kingdom at large, and. regarded the principle of it as a step in the right direction. The present Chancellor of the Exchequer was the Brat who had the courage to leap over the park-wall of the privileged classes, and place on their shoulders, in the shape of a legacy duty, a fair share of the burdens which they had hitherto escaped. He regarded the amendment of the hon. baronet as nothin g more than an attempt to keep up those fences and park walls, and to bring back the late Government to power, and he had therefore voted against it, but that vote would not prevent his resisting the extension of the income tax to Ireland, and, whatever might be the result, he would most certainly press his motion to a division. He desired to prevent the late Government being restored to power for many reasons. First, he remembered that they had pro posed to extend the income tax to funded property and salaries in Ireland, and he understood that they would not have opposed the motion of which the hon. baronet (Sir B. Hall) gave notice, when they were in power, for the extension of the tax to all property whatsoever in that country. This motion would be a good test of their opinions on the subject. They all knew that at the last election every Liberal Irish member felt himself bound to do his best to turn out the Government, which, by their inflam matory placards, had raised the disturbances at Stockport, which were used as a war cry during the Irish elections. (" Hear" from the Opposition.) He trusted such scenes as occurred at Six-mile-bridge, and elsewhere, in consequence, would never bo seen again. But if they wore to form an alliance with the members of that Government, after they had done all they could to put them out of power, and pre vent their exciting agitation and religious discord in Ire land, the most simple peasant would be puzzled what to think of his representatives, or to explain the conduct of those who professed to be the leaders of public opinion in Ireland. A very excellent and patriotic man, Mr. Henry Grattan, was turned out of Meath last year because he had voted for a coercion bill at a time when it was necessary. The present member for Meath, his successor, was moving heaven and earth at present to restore to power a Govern ment whose constant pastime had been to give Ireland coercion bills, and who, when last in power, had threatened the priests, who were really the best guardians of the public peace. Ho had not voted for the amendment, be cause he was opposed to the object its movers had in view, but it did not follow that he accepted the propositions of the budget. On the contrary, there was evidence to show that Ireland was in such a state of distress even now as to be unable to bear her share of the income tax. He did not wish to exempt any class able to meet taxation, nor would he say but that in Ulster and parts of the south they were able to pay taxes as well as in many parts of England ; but ho contended that the country was only in a state of convalescence and not able to undergo such a heavy infliction so soon after the sufferings of the famine. It was not generally known here how heavily Ireland was taxed. By a return recently obtained by the hon. mem ber for the University of Dublin it appeared, on a view of the comparative taxation of both countries, that the amount spread over the whole of Ireland was 3s. Thd. in pound, while in England it was only 2s. 4d. in the pound, thus giving an excess of ls. 3d. on Irish over the aggregate of Irish taxation. Even in England an income tax, when brought to bear against small traders, was a most unad visablo measure, and in resisting its application to Ireland he had no object but to avert the tax from those in that country who would be crushed by this addition to a bur den which they at present could hardly bear. The income tax would not only very much retard progress in the small boroughs of the south and west of Ireland, but would accelerate greatly the emigration going on there, which was taking from the country all the most useful artisans and workmen. He did approve of the rest of the budget, but not of the application of the income tax to Ireland, and he would do his utmost, upon that question, to ascertain correctly the sense of the House. He hoped the time would come when Ireland would be well able to bear her fair share of the national burdens, but, as he believed that time had not yet arrived, he begged to move that the words " Great Britain" be introduced in each line of the resolution before the committee, in place of the words " United Ki ng d om ." Colonel DUNNE said, his hon. friend in not supporting the amendment made the other night by the hon. baronet the member for Hertfordshire (Sir B. Lytton) seemed to him to have missed the only feasible opportunity of attain ing the object he desired, and was attempting instead to follow a course in which he must be aware he had scarcely any hope el succeeding. (Hear, hear.) The proper moment having been allowed to pass by, this was neither the time nor the occasion for bringing forward such a mo tion, and he thought it of so futile a character that he should have been inclined to walk out of the house, had ho not by so doing rendered himself liable to misconstruction out of doors. He would vote in favour of any Ministry that would impose a just taxation on Ireland ; but it must be remembered that the same taxation was not always an equal taxation as between England and his own country. (Hear.) That was the position taken up by those Irish members who had opposed the budget. He maintained that the remission of the consolidated annuities was by no means an equivalent for the imposition of the income tax. It must be remembered that when additional taxation was imposed on England it generally returned to that country in some form, for the dockyards, arsenals, and Government establishments were nearly all situated there - but Ireland had no such return, and this was one of the things that made the imposition of additional taxation upon her un just. If the hon. member succeeded in the motion he had proposed no one would be more glad of his success than he (Colonel Dunne) would be ; but he repeated that ho did not think the hon. member had adopted the proper mode of securing the object he aimed at. (Hear, hear.) Mr. V. SCULLY wished to remark that the Irish mem bers who had voted for the budget on Monday night had done so upon a balance of the measures proposed regard ing Ireland, and the hon. and gallant colonel who had just sat down had apparently adopted the same course when ho recorded his vote for an income tax for Ireland upon Mr. Blackall's motion of the sth of March, 1849, before the hon. and gallant colonel had ostensibly allied himself to the party with whom he now acted. (Colonel Dunne—"l did not vote for that motion.") He (Mr. V. Scully) was not for an income tax to Ireland if he could possibly avoid it. But if he supported the Government jproposal it was because it would be a relief to small farmers of the dis tressed districts which he represented. (Hear.) In March, 1852, he told his constituents he would do all he could to get rid of the consolidated annuities. There were some favourable c ircumstances in the condition of Ireland. He remembered the time when he only obtained lls r for wo o l for which he expected in a few weeks to realise 235. 6d. (Hear.) Beef and mutton, too, were fetching high prices —far greater than could be expected if so large a portion were not consumed in England. (Hear.) He thought that a change in the incidence of taxation would benefit the people of Ireland. If, however, this budget should pass, he should always consider that every shilling of the famine advances was repaid. The income tax for 7 years would realise 480,0001. a year—that would be 3,000,0001. The increase in the spirit duties would bring in 250,0001. which would be 4,000,000/. Then there at 20 years' purchase, won were the succession duties, which would realise 2,000,0001. th the Govern ay or ano er, more, so that, in one w or 10,000,000/. for the Eng ment'would realise 8, 000, present budget. He would not run lish Exchequer by the and give his vote on this proposi tion.away to-night, but stay Hemight be told of what the people of (Cheers.) voted against the Ireland would say , if he proposition of the hon. member (Mr. Lawless . He did not care on e far thingf Ireland might thi n k what the people o for the mo ment, (Ch ee rs and laughter.) He would l oo k t o what they would think when theyunderstood the quest i on. (gear, h ear -) He would look' into the q ues ti on for them. He would look to the interests of that great county of Cork, which produced the ablest men of Ireland. (L eh ter.) He would not deny that there were able all land who might come to a contrary opinion, but men in Ire not the means which he possessed of forming they had upon the spot. (Hear, hear.) He was an opinion representative of his constituents , they pent here as the said it with great resPect—his were not—and he He should like to see 100 of t representatives. pear.) asking him to give an his tenant-fa in London. account of his mont, in reference to the vote ho conduct in Parlia should have a very selfish was about to give. Re absolve his personal ro ert account to render to them e if, to them with the paympentpof fromincome tax, ho saddled years. Ho should not, yeconsolidated amraities for 40 tax levied upon Ireland, if therefore, object to see an income torial character, and l were divested of its inquisi salaries, shares in public levied for example, upon funds, with a duo deduction f companies, and landlords' rents, should also bear or annuities and rentcharges, which their share of the tax. He had recom mended that a d eputat i on of the Irish members should see the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which they had done ; and they had also seen Sir J. Young. They were told that the income tax would be introduced into Ireland, with mitigatory circumstances, and with as little of an inquisi torial character as possible. A farmer, holding land at a rent of between 2001. and 3001. a-year, would not he be lieved, be assessed at all, an d those who 'paid rent exceed ing 300/. a-year and upwards would be assessed at case third instead of one-half their rent. The Irish members had also urged that 270,0001., the amount of arrears of the consolidated annuities due from the distressed unions. should be remitted. Ho trusted that the chivy of Ireland would be leniently dealt with. (Oh 4 The Protestant clergy were heavily taxed to the moor-rates, and the in comes of the Roman Catholic and Presbyterian clergy were so grievously reduced by the departure of their flocks that they ought not to be called upon to support the state which did not support them. (Oh') At least they ought not to ~