The Sun. — London, England, 1801-12-12 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLL4M ENT. HOUSE OF PEERS, FRIDAY, DEC. 1 I. COUNSEL were heard at considerable length on the Appeal from the Court of Chancery in Ireland, IYl‘CLuits ECHLIN, namely, Mr. STEPHENS, as second Counsel for the Respondent. Mr. STEPHENS'S address to their Lordships was necessarily interrupted, for the business of the Commission, on account of which the Counsel were prdered from the Bar. The Commissioners being robed, and seated on the Bench infront of the Throne, and the Commons in attendance, the Royal Assent was given, in the usual form, to the Exchequer Bills Bill, the E;:che. quer Loan, the Lottery Amendment, the Expiring Laws, the Naval Storeo, the Corn Importation, the Militia, the Prize Captors, and the Fcreign Cor respondence Bills ; and also to five Private, and eight Naturalization Bills. The Lords Commissioners on this occasion were, the Archbishop of CANTERBURY, the Lc an CHAN CELLOR, and the Duke of ROXBURGH. After the Commons had retired, Counsel were again called to the Bar, and Mr. ST EP El ENS was heard to the - conclusion of his argument.—Mr. RICHARDS was then heard at some length on • be half of the Appellants, whiCh finished the pleadings upon the Cause. The_ LORD CI ANC'E LLOR rose, and made a va riety of observations" upon the case, of which he stated a general outline, for the . further elucidation of its merits to the House. Ile observed,. that with respea to one prominent point in the case, he might move to have its further consideration postponed only till the following Monday ; but on a view of the whole case, it contained such a number of great, weighty, and important points, that a much longer interval would be necessary for its full and adequate consideration. In one point of view, its importance was so great, that, to a certain degree, their Lord ships' decision must daily and hourlyregulate the trail, saaions in the Courts of Justice in both Countries. On these grounds, he should not think it pressing too far, in the view of delay, if he should advise their Lordships to postpone the further consideration of the Cause until after the Recess. This proposal seeming to meet the concurrence of their Lordships, he moved, " That the farther consideration of the Cause, M'CLU-R E ECHLIN, be adjourned till the second Cause-day after the Recess,"—which was ordered accordingly. The various Bills before the House were for warded in their respetaive stages. The Commitment of the Poors' Badge Bill was postponed. Some private business was then disposed of, after which their Lordships adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. FRIDAY, DEC. 11. A Message from the Lords stated, that they had agreed to the Five Million Exchequer Loan, Bill, the Prize Goods Bill, and the Provisioo Importa tion Bill, without any Amendments. A new Writ was ordered for Stirlingshire, in the room of Lord KEITII, who has been created a Peer of Great Britain. Mr. THORNTON brought up a Petition from the Prisoners confined for Debt in the Marshalsea Fri. son, praying for Relief. Ordered to lie on the Table. Mt. SIMEON gave Notice, that after the Re cess, he should move for leave to bring in a Bill for the better executing the Poor Laws, upon the prin ciple of the 43d of ELIZABEIH :-The Ilia. he should have the honour to move for . , would be, in some degree, similar to one which he had before had the honour of submitting to the consideration of the House. Ur. HILEY ADDINGTON moved for a new Writ, for the Queen's County, in Ireland, in the room of Sir J. PAR NELL, deceased. COMMISSION. The SPEAKtR;" accompanied by several Mem_ bers, attended at - the Bzir of the House of Lords, where the Royal assent was given to several Public and Private Bills. The Committees of Supply and Ways and Means were put off till Monday. _ _ _ Mr. BURTON presented a Petition from. the City of Oxford, praying that the prohibition against Distilling from Grain might be continued. He said, that a considerable increase had taken place in the price of Grain since it had been .understood that the Distilleries were no longer to be prohibit_ ed. At present he should only move, that this Petition should lie on the Table, but he hoped be fore the House adjottrned, a day would be appointed for taking the various Petitions which had been presented upon this subjeet into consideration. It was Most undoubtedly a subjea of very great importance, and many ~very strong arguments might be urged on both sides of the . question. There was, he was cor_ vinced, nobody in that House that felt more than the CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER did for the suffer ings of the Poor, or who was disposed to pay greater attention to the public opinion, and he hoped there fore, that he would not obje6t to the appointing of a day for taking these Petitions into consideration, because, at all events, it must afford considerable satisfaftion to the Petitioners to know that their Petitions had been fully considered. .He should not himself make a Motion fur any particular day, but be hoped it would be the pleasure of the House to appoint an early one. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that his Hon. and Learned Friend did him no snore than justice in what he had said of him. It certainly was not . till after the most profound and laborious investigation of this subject, that. he - had adopted the opinion- which he now entertained upon the sub - jed of the Distilleries. His Hon. and Learned Friend had done him no more than justice in saying that he (the CHANCELLOR of the Ex- GHEOLTrIt) felt, as he ought to do, the greatest deference for the opinions of the People of this Country, because he was convinced that their opinions were the result of more sound sense than those of any other People. But he had yet to learn that the Petitions on the Table spoke the sense of the People of the Country. The Petitions were undoubtedly numerous, but he did nor thick the opinions which they contained, were the opinions of a majority of the People of this Country. But,. however much he might be inclined to pay every degree of respect to the opinions of the Public, he must at the same time recollea . . that Fe had a duty to perform, which was, when the interests of the People, and their wishes were iii opposition to one_ another, always to support the former, though in so doing he might offer great violence to his own feel ings. To the wishes of the People of this Country, he would sacrifice every thing, but that which be would sacrifice to no earthly consideration, viz. the obli gations of his duty, and theinjtmaions of his con science. He had considered this subje& as fully and maturely as he was able, and he was perfealy satisfied that the true interests of the Public would not be promoted by complying with the Prayer of these Petitions. Many opportunities had occurred of discussing this subjea, and he had so frequently delivered his sentiments, that he should not now trespass upon the attention of the House any-longer, except merely to observe, that now neatly five weeks had elapsed since his Hon. Friend (Mr, VAN SMART) had given notice, that it was not the in tention of His Majesty's Ministers to propose to renew the Bill for prohibiting the Distilleries.—lt • was then open to all Persons to have petitioned the House,. or for any Gentleman to have made a Motion • upon' that subject ; but even at this advanced period of the Session, if any Gentleman thought proper' to move to take these Petitions into consideration on .Monday, he should not oppose it, though he meant on that day to propose an Adjournment for a considerable period. If such a Motion was made, he would at length state his reasons for the opinion which he had formed, and which he should firmly, but he hoped not obstinately, - adhere to. Mr'. PETERS said, the Right Hon. Gentleman had aced with his usual Candour,' but he thought that a day ought to be appointed for taking the Petitions into consideration, because whatever the result' might be, it would satisfy the People that thesubied had been fairly considered. After a short conversation between the CHAN CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER and Mr. BURTON, the latter Gentleman moved, that this Petition should lie on the Table, and,at.the same time gave notice, that he should mole.,to take the, Petition into con sideration on Monaii - Y.: Mr. BRAGGE presented. a,. Petition from the City of Bristol, against the opening of the Distil leries. With regard to the lateness of the period at which the Petition was presented, he observed, that those from whom it came had waited to see what the efreas of the report of opening the Distil leries would be upon the price of Grain, and had found that it had very considerably increased, _ The Petition was ordered to lie on the Table. Colonel STANLEY presented a Petition from cer tain persons residing in Liverpool, against the open ing of the Distilleries. The SPEAKER said, the Petition was informal, as it was only signed by the Chairman of the Meet ing, and the House could only take it as the Peti tion of the person who signed it. After a few words from Mr. DENT, the Petition was withdrawn. Colonel CLIME presented a Petition from the town of Ludlow, against the opening of the Dis tilleries. Ordered to lie on the Table. Colonel WOOD said, as this important question was to be taken into consideration on Monday, it would be necessary that the House should have every possible information. He wished to know whether there would be any difficulty in laying on the Table, by Monday, an Account of the quantity of Grain used in ' the Distilleries in the course of • a year. Mr. PANSITT ART replied, that the Account could not be prepared by Monday, but the Hon. Gentleman would find it stated in the Report of the Committee on the High Price of Provisions. Colonel 'WOOD said, he was perfectly satisfied. At five o'clock the House adjourned till Monday. T FCE S U ,N. • •• •OLZM QUIT DICS ' AZ ' TALIUSS ♦UDZAT ? LONDON, DECEMBER . rz, tgoi. ,THE Question now before Parliament for re opzning the Distilleries, which . has giNen occasion for some admirable observations from the CHAN CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, both as particularly applied to the subject, and of a general nature, is so nearly connected with the Prices of 'different sorts of Grain in'the Country, and has so close a reference to that interesting subjea, on which a great diver sity of opinions has prevailed, that we cannot resist this opportunity of,laying before our Readers some Observations which . we some time since promised, and which particular reasons have hitherto prevented us from offering to the Public. We are aware, as we were in delivering similar opinions more' than twelve months ago, that we shall have prejudices to encounter ; but as there is no subject to which we ever gave more mature consideration, we may ven ture to state these opivoons without hesitation or reserve. Of the opinions on the Bill now before Parliament, on which - - the .- twQ leading Opposition • Papers, are at comphp variance, .we shall content ourselves with remarking the effrontery of that which grounds its hostility to this measure on one bold Proposition, namely, " That if it is right to open the Distilleries now,- it was wrong to have stopped them in the year i Soo, and vice (versa." The first answer is, That the price of Grain in the latter period was nearly 4uble what it is now ) which the Write; seems to have thought riot worth considering. The next is (as was ob_ served in the House of Commons), that our pro spetts for the ensuing year were then highly dis couraging, whereas they are now most cheering and hopeful; that we had then a scanty stock of old Corn, with the aggravation of a deficient har vest, whereas now, a most abundant Crop of every species of Grain has replenished our stores, and af fords a well-grounded hope that, at a proper season, Grain will be near?), reduced in price to its accus tomed level: This brings - us at, once,:to an examination of a QuestiQn, so frequently - putiby those who have not bestowed proper ConSide"ilaiion on the sub jeft, and so incessantly echoed by inconsiderate Prints : " How happens it that, after a Harvest, universal ly admitted to have been as abundant as any in the memory of man, the Price of Wheat is not as low as it was in 1787, viz. at about seven shillings per . bushel ?" We request permission to take a short historical retrospea ; and if we make untrue state ments, or draw false inferences, we shall think our selves obliged to any one Who will correa us. Fifteen years ago, or more, it was announced to the. Public, in consequence of an investigation that had been made by the Privy Council, that even in a good average year, the quantity of Corn grown in this Island was by no means adequate to the con. sumption of its Inhabitants. This might be easily accounted for from various causes ; by the astonish ing increase of Population, of Commerce and Ma nufaaures, in which the high Wages of those ern. ployed in them necessarily increased consumption, and by the demands made on Grain for various pur poses of luxury in consequence of increased Wealth. However, from having been formerly an exporting, Great Britain became an importing Country, and was obliged to mike good the difference between her own produce and consumption, by foreign sup . _ plies. • -,- When any cited can be'plaltily accounted for by tracing it to natural, simple, and obvious causes, we see no reason for having recourse to artificial ones. This general observation is meant to apply to the two periods which have occurred in the course of the last six years, when the price of Grain has risen to so distressing and alarming an height. So many bad seasons as we have experienced during the last ten years, are not, perhaps, to be equalled in the same given time in the Annals of this Country. We begin with the Sumtiler and Autumn of I 792, that dreadful season which actually stopped the pro gress of the Prussian army , Ou the Continent, when we had nothing but deluges and hurricanes for three mulabs, during which a large proportion of the Grain in the Country rotted un the ground.—That season may certainly be considered as bearing a strong resemblance to that of 1799, and perhaps as having laid the foundation of the Scarcity in 1795, when the Country had hardly recovered from its etFeds. Then came two deficient seasons sue.. cession—and these, with , only two intermediate years of abundance, were pretty closely followed by the destrudive Autumn of 1799, and the un prod u dive Crop (now universally admitted to have been so) of 1800. This is a Statement of Fans, to which we entreat the attentive consideration' of ~the Public. These, we conceive, abundantly explain the Causes of the Scarcity, and of 'the High Price of Grain attendant on it. They are, however, wholly lost sight of•by two descriptions of Persons, one of which chuses to consider the High Price as entirely occasioned by the War, and the other as produced by Combina tion and Monopoly.—We shall content ourselves with a short answer to both. That the High Price has not originated in the War (though that may undoubtedly have somewhat contributed towards it) is absolutely demonstrable. There seems, in the first place, no reason whatever why War should produce so powerful an effdt.—The American _War lasted Seven Years, during no part of which an extravagant price of Grain was experienced. —Yet in that War a very considerable quantity was annually exported from this Country to America, to supply the demands of a large Army -there, which could procure but inconsiderable supplies on the spot ;, and in transporting which to so great a distance, there must necessarily have been very great waste. In the present War, our Armies when on the Continent, were principally supplied from the produce of the Continent, so as to 'havt occa sioned a saving in 'the general consumptiOn of the Country. Those ernploycd v in the West Indies, drew a great part.of -their supplies from America ; t : and those. in the'Mediterranean q 3 from different Ports in that quarter.. 13,qt haw is it possible to get over this single fa,6l ? A severe scarcity was expe rienced in 1795 and 1796, which was then attri buted to the War. The War continued, and the Scarcity ceased. From the end of 1796, to the Sum mer of 1799, the Price of Wheat did not, on an aver age, exceed 7s. per Bushel. How happened this ? Be cause we had three fine Seasons in succession, From the Causes which have been stated, the price agai n rose in 1799, and continued (with some variations ) till the abundance of the Harvest of the presen t year was - absolutely ascertained. The Price the n gradually diminished and continued to decline til l the Preliminaries of Peace gave the ran an accelerat" ed velocity. That this was too rapid, is proved fronl the circumstance of its having again experience d a considerable rise. This cannot be attribute d by any to the War ; but by some it is looked upon as a conclusive argument in &vont- of their theOryof Combination and Monopoly. Before we quit this part of the Subjen, we mos t request that it may be distinetiy understood as out opinion, that though decidetly adverse to those who- strangely maintain that the War was th e origin of the present High Price, and. Peace of occasion of its declension ; that the one did jai' redly and in a small degree contribute to the fonts as the other has to the latter. It did in the first in' stance a great deal more than it ought, but some el" fedi t ought to produce. That it will, by degrees, pro' duce a still greaterove cannot doubt, partly by afford' ing more means of extending and encouraging Agri' culture than a state of War can possibly do, and part' ly by orning the Ports of the whole World rr. Britain, and rendering her accessible to supplies from every quarter, should unfavourable Seasons and bad Crops make supply necessary.. On then .two considerations we think we may rely, as precluding the possibility of a recurrence of the evil to the same extent, and perhaps, of its recur rence at all during a state of tranquillity. To those. who maintain the other propositions we are ready to admit that a real Scarcity will always cause an artificial one, more or less; ill times of plenty we arc perivacled that the fatter Is absolutely impracticable, That .the deficiency Of the stock in hand has affOrded room fOr - more specula' • - non and even soggested it ; that by this some. iv' dividuals have been enriched ; that it has afforded in some places the means of an occasional manage' ment of the markets, we are not disposed to dent' This however is an ellen impossible to be pro" duced when there is real abundance in the Counerts and difficult (to say the lasti to be prevented where there is not. It is nonsense to say, at The Farmers have so long tasted the sweet s o f a hie; Price, that they cannot now be brought to ' a we it." The same was said in the beginning of 1796 yet the Price did sink to its old level, 'Equal non' sense is ,it to say, " Monopolists now understan 4 , their trade so well, that nothing but legislature ID' terference can put a stop to their naischseven., c an , trivances." The same was said of them in i 7 9,61 but their.contrivances to keep up the Price, if chef ever did exit in any degree, ceased to operate. reduetion of Price can only be the effe4t. of PlentY; when blessed with that, the Country may bid de' fiance to Combination and Monopoly, even if tbef existed in a tenfold degree, But to come to the Question with which we sera ° —How happens it, that after this abundant harvest the Price of Grain is not lower ? We ansever--Be l cause the stock in hand was so completely exhaust' ed, that it must require more than one produa/' .6 season to make good the deficiency i.---because the seed,time having been so remarkably fin; farmer ; have not yet employed their labourers indoors' when they could e mploy them out ;-==because, fob the same reason, the demand for seed-wheat 1135 been very unusually great, whiCh was necessari l y supplied by this year's crop, and indeed by choic e ' as the sample was so fine ;--and because the Miller ; and Dealers in Cgrn have hardly yet complet ed ' their stores for the winter.—We think it pr o bable' that when these causes have. ceased to operate, t he demand will be less, and the supply greater ; e ithe r of which must produce the desired Eire& of lowe r ' ing the Markets. This Subjeftis a copious, one, and we may, pe r ' hapS, - resume it.--Having thoroughly considered i f ° we think it will not be easy to satisfy us that Off opinions are. ill-founded : but we. are open to CO l ; vglion l and if we have fallen into errors, we sha never be averse or ashamed to retraft them. Two Hamburgh Mails still remain due. His MAJESTY yesterday rode out on horseba ei; in Windsor Park. The Ktsc will, it is expeaed, hold a Levee °I ; Wednesday next,. at St. James's Palace ; and I MAJESTY a Drawing-Room the following day• 4 It is stated in some of the Papers, that Th e ' Royal Highnesses the DUKES of SUSSEX and CAD 3 o i BRIDGE mean to take their Seats in the House, Peers previous to the Recess. The hitter maY j d°. so, but the former ho , , been for several, mon ths, a'' is still at Lisbon. The DuKr of CAMBRIDGE has built a .very elegy gant Coach and Chariot to take with him to N° c ‘ i Scotia. They are finished in a very surerb o elegant; but at the same time substantial manner' The Earl of Ro . st.trt is amongst the late a rriv l at „Bath. , ;10 1 This morning arrived a Mail from the Lee , j ,,, Islands, brought to Falmouth by the Duke of 1.1, rcucr Packet, in thirty:eight days. ARRIVED 'erion, Capra Nree, &c. fc the Ship Ke. 60 1eagues \ This eve Packet,. Yet e Wardisla rasSengerS SHALL, Son 4:ll)Dic, A MAIK. Th I)4 ckets had 41 ;xabe th 411 (1 sailed ag has experien h omeward pa Put back 1 HAMILTON 1 Remain thi \ , ork - : THE area , 1111 )ided, w ban that me Sailed this Torbay, Arrived masts ' l4 laga boor AR.RIVEr and Sarah with the 1( - ; Sailed THE Pr; th• - is evening 44 1 BASSETT Maji i t in the I with 0 43; chesteri and ttls day W.4 r, f.)r Y; Th e Bra, r, gs, have The Dist: S ,_ 1 -4. th ins , aCr - Officen 4rl 4 A n Eveni Account l e llich we h : th Pett error e Peace E: