The Sun. — London, England, 1847-12-03 00:00:00

LAW INTELLIGENCE. COURT OF E.XCHEQUEIt. Dec.? (Sittings in Banco after Term.) CASE V. 3tiaLLER. This was a declaration on promise, chargit 6 , the de fendant, who is the lessee of the plaintiff, with breach of a contract, in which the defendant undertook within a month to build and complete a coach-house and stable for the plaintiff. The defendant excused himself by way of plea, which was now demurred to, that he was unable to complete the contract in consequence of a severe frost, which stopped the progress of the building. bin ATHERTON, in support of the demurrer, said that inasmuch as the defendant had entered into an express contract, he could not plead the act of God for non-performance of his contract, because in so under taking he must be supposed to have taken the act of God into consideration. The COURT said there could be no doubt that the plea was a bad one, and judgment should, therefore, be entered for the plaintiff. Mr. WARREN, for the defendant, said that his client had wished him to come there, but that he felt that it would be absurd to argue the point. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. MANSION-HOUSE. William Smith, servant to the Rev. Richard Ridley, of Darrington, near Pomfret, Yorkshire, was brought before the Lord Mayor upon the charge of having robbed his master of a quantity of plate. The shopman of Mr. Barker, pawnbroker of Hounds ditch, stated that some days ago the prisoner, who was unknown to the house, called and asked what they would give Rer ounce for silver. Witness replied that the price would be according to the quality, and next morning the prisoner called with some spoons and a sugar lifter, and was detained upon suspicion of having stolen them. The prisoner was in the dress of a gen tler nan's servant. The Rev. Mr. Ridley said he had hired the prisoner with whom he had received an excellent character, about the 9th or 10th of November, five days after which the man complained of illness, and was told the sooner he went away the better. He went off on the 15th of No vember, and before he was gone a number of silver forks, spoons, and other articles of plate were missed. The property produced as having been pledged at Mr. Bar ker's house was part of that which had been missed. On the 11th of November, about five o'clock in the morning, the prisoner raised an alarm that the house had been entered by thieves, and it was found that the plunder of the plate had taken place. The particulars were placarded, and the apprehension of the prisoner soon followed the announcement. The prisoner said he had been pressed by a young man with whom he was acquainted to rob his master. For some time he resisted the temptation, but at last it became too strong for him. His accomplice had assisted him, raid was to have met him at Brentford, but after wards left him in the hobble to get out of it as well as he tould. The prosecutor said he believed the prisoner had com mitted the offence on the spur of the moment, and that he lead been induced by some evil adviser. The prisoner was at once sent to Pomfret for trial for the burglary. MARLBOROUGH-STREET. Carl Esmann and Abraham Poncy were brought up for re-examination on various charges of swindling. To prove the false pretence—namely, that Esmann had never held any appointment in the British Museum —Mr Panizzi, one of the librarians, was called. Mr. Panizzi stated that the two prisoners were total strangers to him. The prisoner Esmann was never ap pointed to any situation in the British Museum, nor was there a situation as foreign librarian vacant. Mr. Ballantine (in addition to Mr. Lewis) appeared for the prisoner Poncy. Mr. Ballantine applied to have the evidence at the previous examination read over. This having been done, Mr. Ballantine said, before going on with the next case, he proposed to sift the first case a little, as he should be able to prove that Poncy had been deceived by the representations of Esmann. Mr. Smith examined—Had been acquainted with Esmann since July last. First saw Poccy a few days after this. Could not recollect whether Esmann had told him that he had a situation as librarian in the British Museum before he became acquainted with Poncy. Would not swear that he had not told some persons before he became acquainted with Poncy, that Esrriann held a situation in the British Museum. Had lent Esmann money; there had been one bill trans action for 351. with Esmann. That bill witness had drawn on Esmann, but it was dishonoured. There had else been a bill transaction fur 101., l‘thich witness had accepted, but had not got 'paid. Had never denied his signature to this bill. Had hoard that bills were afloat bearing his signature, and had said that these bills were not accepted by him. At first witness thought that the signature to the 10/. bill was not in his handwriting, and had stated as much. Had obtained a horse from aMr. Davis. Therewas no charge made against witness on account of this horse, but there was a demand made by Mr. Davis on account of the horse. Esmann had no part in this affair, The horse, and the chaise to which it was harnessed, were detained by Mr. Davis. The chaise belonged to Esmann, and witness allowed the horse in question to be put to it. It was about two months ago that this transaction took place. Had told a person named Carr that Esmann held a situ ation in the British Museum. Could not swear that he had told this to Carr in the presence of Esmann. Be lieved that Carr and Esmann met for the first time at witness's house. Mr. Smith said Esmann had been introduced to him by Mr. Mailers, a broker, in Drury lane, who said Esmann was a perfect gentleman. lie should not have introduced Mr. Carr to Mr. Esmann at his house, unless he had believed in the perfect respectability of Esmann. The next case was then gone into. Mr. Carr, furniture dealer, Nos. 14 and 15, Aston place, Holloway, examined—Towards the latter end of July Smith introduced Esmann to him as a respectable man, having the command of plenty of money. Some time after this Esmann applied to him fur goods to fur nish apartments with. Esmann said he had an appoint ment in the British Museum ; he had a suite of apart ments there, and the furniture must be of a good de scription. Esmann selected goods to the amount of 10/., but witness was reluctant to send the goods. The pri soner, however, called, and took part away in a cab, and witness delivered himself a looking-glass for Esmann at No. 47, Russell-street, the house kept by Poncy. Witness agreed to take a bill for the goods. This bill had not been paid. Before witness left the house he saw Poncy, and put some questions to him in relation to the order for furniture given by Esmann. Poncy said he knew nothing at all about Esmann's furniture transactions. Poncy incidentally told wit ne s s th a t I.:mann had got an appointment at the British Museum, and was to enter on his duties in January next. Poncy also said Esmann was going to live in the building. This " did" for w it ness , hi s susp i c i ons vanished, and he sent i n all the goods ordered by Esmann. Cross-examined by Mr. Ballantine—Mr. Smith had previously told him that Esmann said he h e ld a s i tuation in the British Museum. Smith introduced Esmann to witness as a highly respectable man, having an account at Smith, Payne, and Co.'s. Police-constable Johncock, C division, produced an inventory found in Poncy's possession. Mr. Horsley said that inventory related to Carr's fur niture, and would prove an arrangement between Poncy and Esmann as to the disposal of the goods. The constable also produced a number of letters, di rected to Esmann, found in Poncy's possession. The goods obtained from Mr. Carr were still in Great Rue. sell-street, at Poncy's house. Mr. BINGHAM said, he could not discharge Poncy on his own declaration that he had been taken in by Es mann. If the Learned Counsel could show that Poncy had been deceived, then such a circumstance would ope rate on the decision he should come to. Mr. Ballantine proceeded to argue that Esmann by his plausible appearance an d representat i ons succeeded inimposing on Mr. Poncy, w h o was a respectable tradesman, carrying on business in Great R usse ll- street for many years. Now, with respect to the transaction between Esmann and Smith, that would have to be in vestigated elsewhere, and he should not enter upon that matter now. As to the case of Carr, it was clear, from the ev : .dence, that the goods obtained by Eirnanu were obtained entirely through Smith's representations of Esmitnn's respectability. He could, if necessary, show that Esmann owed Poncy a considerable sum of money, and, that Poncy had seized the furniture in Esmaen's Po session for arrears of rent. The son of Poncy was examined as to the length of tbrte his father had been in this country. The family had been many years in this country. Mr. BINGHA'I said his opinion was that the testimony Riven by Carr had materially altered the aspect of the case against Poncy. It appeared that Poncy had re- Reatedly denied to Carr that he knew anything about the purchase of the f urn i ture, an d i t also appeared that the statement about &mann holding a situation in the British Museum only came out accidentally on the par ties getting a od sight l of the r e p a i rs go i ng on at the Museum, He sureties to appear now only require Poncy to find as rnaiw,iiltness at the Central Criminal Court. The judg e t then,. if he saw fit, order Poncy to be put in the'oprodsaailon of a prisoner, but at I present he should only r iim to find bail to ensure his attendance at the court. Mr. BINGHAM said h e h ad received a letter in German from the prisoner Esrnann. to lothsatated that it was a The letter was translate& from charge the the writer (E s .. " good comedy" for Smith all ln Smith was mann) with obtaining money in ano in his debt. He should, however, provew , and then court. The writer did not understand Pn'igs.li!h he hoped the magistrate would order the depositions to be translated into Grman. .. M with this Mr, BINGHA said he could not comply request. He would assist the prisoner understand th e charge, and to prepare his defence, by now explaining th 4 > nature of the charge to him. Mr. Ballantine said there were many watches pledged by Esmann belonging to Policy in the hands of pawn- big )kern. Mr. BINGI-Lot could not enter into that portion of tit 3 case. The prisoner Esmann was then ordered to bo com• Dail ted on the above eases, and on the previous charge ci ate, :ling a watch. ztl peasant, in cultivating the ground at Bouxieres aux. Chdees, in the dq.irtment of the Meurthe, lately Sorxtz 4 seal of the Emperor Henry 111., called " the 11 40 lc." It is in massive silver, clumsily made, weighs about twenty-five grammes (nearly an ounce), and has 3 . IT. S., signifying " seal of Henry III." inscribed on it. Z 'h e Emperor was son of Conrad IL, and cousin of Br anon, Bishop of Tonl, whom he caused to be elect l Pope at the Diet of Worms, and who afterwards beea ro , 3 Saint Leon IX. Henry 111. was born in 1017, suceeec lad his father in 1039, died in 1056, and was buried at Spir, FLANDERS AND DUTCH MAIL. BRUSSELS, Nov. 30.—The Chau:leer of Representa tives was again occupied to-day in discussing budgets of Foreign Affairs and of the Marine. Is the general discussion Messrs. Osy and Delahaye vehemently in sisted that reductions and the utmost economy should be exercised, and for that purpose introduced as soon as possible into the departments of personal diplomacy and of the Military Marine. M. Delahaye de clared that unless these reductions were proposed by the Government in the budget next year, he should be forced to vote against this budget. M. Castian went further and declared that from this year his vote should be neutral. M. D'lloffschmidt endeavoured to show that the salaries enjoyed by diplomatic persons were not too high, but he promised at the same time that he would not consent to any augmentation, which is being solicited by several of the agents. THE EMPEROR or RUSSIA.—On the Ist of December the Emperor of Russia completed the twenty-second year of his reign ; in three years, therefore, he will have arrived at an epoch, which has not been attained by any of the Czars before him. A fundamental law exists in Russia which dates before the time of Peter the Great, and by which the Emperor of Russia cannot reign more than twenty-five years. After this period he is obliged to abdicate in favour of the heir presumptive of the Imperial Crown ; or, if ho wants to maintain himself on the throne he does so at the risk of braving all the aristocracy of Russia, and of being stabbed or strangled in his own palace. Such at least were the customs of the Czars, for a long period has elapsed since any attained the 25th year of his reign. The reso lution which the Emperor will take for this important period has been deeply engaging parties at St. Petersburgh. Many suppose that he will abdicate in favour of the Prince Royal Alexander Nicoleviwtsch, who is now twenty-nine years of age, and that he will retire into Germany, but the more general opinion is that he will convoke the Senate, for the purpose of hav ing this barborous law revoked, and thus be enabled to continue his reign without fear of the Nobles. The Em peror himself avoids all allusion to the subject. COMMERCIAL STATISTICS OP RUSSIA.—The St. Pe tersburgh Journal of Manufactures publishes the follow ing details relative to the commercial statistics of St. Petersburgh for the year 1846. At the close of this year there were in Russia 860 merchants of the first class, 2,283 of the second class, 37,651 of the third class, 34 foreign commercial houses, 7,147 peasants en gaged in commerce. The capital employed in com merce amounted to 11,603,400 silver roubles (660,303,800 francs); in 1846, 82 ships were built of from 16 to 150 lasts, and 56 foreign vessels were bought. During this year 44 Russian ships were wrecked. The four insurance companies of Odessa had insured to the amount of 3,354,852 s. r., of which 75,634 s. r. were re claimed for accidents. The number of Russian ships which left the ports of Russia during the year w, re 1,012 with cargo, and 33 with ballast. The number of ships which entered the pert was 683 with cargo, and 314 with ballast. 203 foreign vessels were admittted by patent under the Russian flag. EARLY APPROACH OF WlNTER.—Letters from the East Sea Provinces of Russia say we have had com plete winter for the last four weeks, during the latter half of October; snow has every where fallen, al though it has between while melted away. In the year 1829 winter set in at about the same season. Already, on the 13th of November, it was necessary to remove the floating bridge at Riga, so that the town is severed into two parts. CAIRO, Nov. 8.--Mehemet Ali arrived here a few days ago, and will probably not break up for Upper Egypt for some time. The inexhaustible nature of this veteran, who still moves about with astonishing celerity, seems to promise a long life. The Viceroy has for years been so regular in his course of life, that it is really a matter of surprise that one word • from the phy sicians will induce him to exchange the gardens of Shoubra for the citadelle. The Government is doing all in its power to abate as little as possible of the long-standing monopoly of trade; hence the constant squabbles with all the Consulates. The Minister of Commerce is, as is well known, an American, and therefore by birth and from principle a secret, and, if circumstances call for it, an avowed enemy of all European representatives; the only one who has yet arrive 1 here is M. Barrot from France. From Abyssinia we learn from a well. informed European, who has been long resident there:—" We are now at war. Übije, the governor of Tigrai, has again taken the field against Ras Ali, the nominal Emperor of Gondar, or rather has challenged him; for Übije is in Sernen, and Ras Ali as arrived in Wagnera from Sernen, where both parties were gazing at each other for the last six months with immense forces, without offering battle. Each seems afraid of the other, for the battle will certainly be decided by the life or death of one or the other of these chiefs. It is, however, by no means im probable that after the six months' inactivity, hunger and fatigue may bring about patce—for such is Abyssinia." DUTCH FUNDS.—AXSTERDAH, NOT. 29. Money. Bills Actual Debt, 2h per Cent........... 84 54 1 4 Ditto, 3 per Cent .......... • . 65Y, 66 Ditto, 4 per Cent. ............ 84i 84N Amort Syndic, 3% per Cent...... 84 Commercial Company, 434 par Cent .. 15214 163 East India Loan, 4 per Cent.......... Exchange on London, at sight . .... 12 15 Two months... .. 12 On Ilanabtirgh, at sight .. • • 35 37 Two months.— ...... • ..... 34 75 On Paris . • .............. Sts SO Tw0mneat1a5............... :Sti, BELGIAN ruNDs.—BaussEts, Nev. 30. Actual Debt, 2% per Cent .......... .... Rothschild's Loan. Five per Cent Loan of Thirty Millions, Four percent—. Ditto Three per Cent .... Ditto Thirty-seven Millions, ditto ...... Ditt0,ditte,1840.......... •• • • Ditt0,d1tt0,1842...... ...... .......... Ditto, 1844... • . 92 Ditto, 1838 ..................... 67% Ditto of the City, 1832 Ditto, 1843 ............... ..... 93 Bank of Belgium...—. 82 —Brussels Papers, Nov. 30. We are most happy in being able to state, that Government has recognized the claims of the families of those humane and brave officers who perished in this town from fever while in the discharge of the duty of relieving the sick and destitute. Early in the year Mr. Rushton, with his usual active benevolence, made strong representations to Sir George Grey, and his endeavours did not want thesupport which Mr. Austin, the Poor•law Assistant Commissioner, could officially give. The re sult has been, that Government has placed at the dis posal of the two rectors and Mr. Rushton (with whom Mr. Austin forms a committee), a sum equal to one year's salary for each of the officers and surgeons who died in the discharge of a sacred duty.—Liverpool Journal. A RE - MARRIAGE.—"We are about," says a Frai,k fort letter of the 27th, " to witness a marriage of a very singular description. Mdlle. de Reic•henbach, daughter of the late Grand Duke of Hesse-Cassel by a morga natic marriage, was divorePd from I .ler first husband, Count de Luktner. She then marrif :d M. Wolzdorff, a Councillor of State, who died two years ago. She is now about to re-marry her first h . usband, the political differences which l e d t o th e i r di vorce :no l onger exis t ing . THE MONSTER MoTioN.—Mr. Chisholm Anstey has made the nearest approach to th e discovery of per petual motion that has ever yet beer t arrived at. It oc cupies four pages of the Votes of the House of Com mons; extends throu g h th e whole history of England; comprises the whole of the known', and three parts of the . unkno wn wor ld ; and refers -to every communica tion, " either secret or ostensible," that has ever passed between any persons upon any s abject whatever. To comply with this motion we sh ould require another Raleigh, to write another History of the World; another Cocker, to invent another system of arithmetic capable of making the calculations and yet urns that Mr. Chis holm Anstey demands; and it viol ld be necessary to examine all the chiefs of all the tr ibes with which this coun try has ever communicAted, by treaty or otherwise. —Punch. BRITISH AssocrATloN. — Tha corporation of Swan sea, where the British Associatio n are to assemble next year, have most liberally voted five: hundred pounds to wards their accommodation and: entertainment. It is expected that this sum will be d ov .bled by private dona tions, so that the local fund will: .be more than ample to provide all the essential rev irements, so ably ar ranged annually under the experie need guidance of the assistant-general secretary. But the spirit evinced by , such a fund, conbined with well--; known Welsh hospi tality, and with the attractions of 8 wansea and its neigh , bourhood, afford good promise fol .. the meeting of 1848. RATES or POSTAGE.—By a Treasury warrant, published in the Gazette of Tues Jay, it is ordered, that from and after the Ist of Jam se .ry next British news papers, and such British publi et .tions as are allowed to ' pass by the post as newspapers 'din the United Kingdom, may, if posted in the United K 3 random addressed to Lu bck, be sent from the United Kingdom to Lubeck di rect, or via Hamburgh, by pact :et or private ship, free of postage ; and newspapers and, Waer publications allowed to pass by the post as news pa ,pers in Lubeck, pub lished and posted in Lubeck. rand addressed to the United Kingdom, may be s(4nt . from Lubeck to the United Kingdom direct, or iris t Hamburgh by packet boat, free of postage, and by p' :ivate ship at the rate of one halfpenny each. Newspi I,p era and other periodicals allowed to pass by the post as newspapers in Lubeck, published and posted in Lu beck, may be sent thence to the British colonies and fxreign countries through the United Kingdom ; a) id foreign and colonial newspapers addressed to Li tb'eck may be sent from foreign countries and the I :ri'' ish colonies to Lubeck, through the United Kingdora- direct, or via Hamburgh by packet or private ship at th ie rate of one halfpenny each. Periodicals (not of ds ail y publication) are to pay as follow :-2 oz. weight, 1d..; 3 oz., 6d.; 4 oz., Bd.; fur every additional ounce up to 16 oz., 2d. more; above exceptl 6 oz. , a s such e t h he p l u e b tt l e ie r a r t a ir e s or ar p e e . s n t o a t g t o o . be sent by the pcst, Exchange, Prices Current, C:o mmercia P l . Lists, td E w a h c i l e t h m i u t s t i s b s e e iit printed 3uli ' l. * pay Id. each, subject to the following cond B' i c tio , w openhi ch at it the is , ide s published; ~Coursesna conditions e: _L u c ! . -1 111 the 1 anguage of the country in Nblix bed in the country from gent %vit bout cover, or in a band after s,e e x its e p lo t - u ttieiet , on o word I co be printed on the paper name a a o_r n c onand mess:44ll feoubrotaihntdho,erndpoienrrasaronyny to writing, w hti sent. SOCUITT OF ARTs, of the Society of Arts was was nex;lis i ron bri dge f munication of the evenin g ye c a i h s n ai t e r hat 'll u e f . Arll principal p S a te e p o h r e n i; Sir J. P. Boileau, Bart., in the "igs Wtoedin,tsdaYievrilg: exhibited the Moulton, on a new and highly railways, a model of which - society. Its construction pros xe, -As on the ' ciple," of which it is an enti. re ly novel application, the l ea ding features being extreme strength, derived from' an economized consumption of i .na,terials. As an example it may be stated - th at a bridge on thi s con structionpowaet.New York, 70 f' set i ti span, was m a d e f rom l o 3 fis powers, t tons of iron ; and though on: ly 121bs. of iron were t i, fi s v o e ol f b e s e . t long, it h a d s u u s s e t d a i in ne d t h t e h e m e o n d o e r l m , w o u h s i c iv il e i i s g il a b t °out IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. Fi USE OF COMMONS, Dec. 2. The SPEAN.R took the Chair shortly before Four o'clock. Several new Members took the oaths and their seats LIGHTHOUSES. The Report of the Commissioners of Lighthouses for 1846 was brought up and laid on the table. COMMERCIAL DEPRESSION. Mr. J. CLAY presented a petition from the presi dent, vice-presidents, directors, and members of the Chamber of Commerce of Hull, praying the House to take into its immediate consideration the depression of the country, and to institute an inquiry into the monetary laws, in order that such remedies might be devised as might seem expedient. SOAP. 4. Dr. BOWRING presented a petition from a Dr. Normandey, as we understood, stating that he had invented an important improvement in the manu facture of soap, of which he wished to give the public the benefit, that he manufactured a quantity which had been seized by the Excise as liable to duty. The Hon. and Learned Member stated after the recess, if a Committee on the Excise laws were appointed, that he should move that this petition he referred to them. TilE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY . __VENING, DECEMBER 3, 1847. BANK FAILTTRF,S Mr. MACGREGOR gave notice that on a fut►.ire day he should move for a return of the haol::4 that had failed in Scotland since 1783, stating ti►eir lia bilities and assets, and also a similar return of the banks that had suspended payment in England during the same period. ELECTION PETITIONS. Petitions were presented against the returns for Kinsale, Abingdon, and Lyme Regis. IRISH EXPENDITURE. Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL said, his motion for a return of the number, nature, and expenditure of the various branches of the Government departments in Ireland transferred to and consolidated with the cor responding departments in England, from the year 1800 to the present time ; the expenditure in each case to be the average of the last three years of the establishment in Ireland, and the dates of the transfer to be given, stood first on the list, but did he not think that there ought to be full discussion into the state of Ireland before they resorted to coercive measures, he should have been strongly inclined to postpone it, in order that the adjourned debate, in which the House and the country took so much in terest, might be proceeded with. He had, therefore, endeavoured to get a promise from Government that an opportunity should be afforded him for raising such a discussion, but he had failed in doing so, and were it not for the representations of the Irish Members with whom he acted, that it would be impossible for him to obtain a fair hearing from English Members until the adjourned debate had been disposed of, he should cer tainly have gone on with his motion. In deference, however, to the opinion of his friends he should abstain from doing so, and he hoped his example would be followed by other Hon. Members who had notices on the paper, in order that the monetary question might be got rid of without delay. The motion for the postponement was agreed to. LAW CHARGES AND FEES. Mr. ROMILLY moved the re-appointment of a Select Committee, to inquire into and report to the House on the taxation of suitors in the courts of law and equity by the collection of fees, and the amount thereof, and the mode of collection, and the appropria tion of fees in the court s of law and equity, and in all inferior courts, and in the courts of special and general sessions in England and Wales, and in the ecclesiastical courts and courts of admi ralty; and as to the salaries and fees received by the officers of those courts, and whether any and what means could be adopted with a view of superintending and regulating the collection and appropriation thereof. The motion having been seconded, Sir G. GREY said as the motion was simply for the re-appointment of a Committee agreed to last session there was no objection to it. He wanted that opportunity of stating that the Home-office was kt present engaged in collecting information on the subject of the fees charged in County Courts, with the view of introducing a measure to regulate and render uniform the fees to be taken in all the County Courts throughout the country. The motion was then agreed to. POOR-LAW ADMINISTRATION ACT. Mr. BANKES, in rising to move for leave to ' bring in a Bill to amend the Poor-law Administration Act, by reducing the amount of charge to which the public are liable under the existing provisions of that Act, said it would be remembered that last session a Committee of that House sat for many months upon this subject, and at the end of the inquiry they re ported that the Poor-law Commissioners had issued rules for carrying out the law in a way that was contrary to the intentions of the Legislature. The Act to which he referred was passed in June last, after much discussion • and as he, and others with whom he act e d, considered that its operation would prove expensive, they opposed it. It was, h o wever, carried; but from that time to the present its provisions had not been carried into effect ; he therefore called upon the Government to explain to the House why they had all owe d t h e A ct to f a ll i n t o a b eyance dur ing so long a period. The Commissioners, save one, had resigned their posts ; one was a Member of the House and the other had been appointed to a high official situation, and those con versant with the law, whom he had consulted on the subject, agreed that one Commissioner could not carry on the business of the office to which the carrying out of the new Bill was to be entrusted ; for instance, how could one con stitute a board ? He wished to see the Bill carried out with the least possible expense; and, therefore, he wished to know if the Government in tended to carry it out with one Commissioner ; or, in fact, whether they intended to abrogate the Bill alto gether? It was proposed that there should be a President, with a seat in the House of Lords, one paid secretary in that House, another out of it, ' and an unlimited number of sub-inspectors and clerlos, the total cost of whom was as yet unsettled, for the Government had given them no information on the point. If they had thought better of the measure, and wished to save expense, he wean support them. At least the conduct of the Govern ment presented no other view to him.—(Hear.) He judged them by their acts. He had no desire un necessarily to occupy the time of the House, and thereby to retard the discussion on the affairs of Ireland, but if he were compelled to do so he should only imitate the example of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, who had mixed up coer cion with other matters foreign to the question. Such conduct might, by causing delay, destroy the effect of remedial measures ; and if the Bill with respect to Ireland were put off from week to week he should feel it his duty to withdraw his support from the Government in respect to it. Lord J. RUSSELL thought when the House was informed of the whole of the facts in relation to the subject which the Honourable and Learned Gentleman h a d introdui:ed, they would see there was no reason for taking the hasty step which he had suggested. Each of the Commissioners under tine old Act received 9 ,000/. each, making a total of 6,000/. a year for the three. What they proposed was, that instead of three heads of that office there should be but one—namely, a president, with a salary of 2,0001., and that there should be two secretaries, with a salary of 1, 500 /. a year each—maki ng I,ood. less than the expei.ses of the. original commission. He had been in communication with various individuals, many of whom had express( ?(-1 great unwillingness to take upon themselves du! onerous duties of the ~ ffices. The lion. Gentler nan was mistaken when he said that but one Commissioner had of late trans acted the business of the commission. The Hon. Member for Herefordshire resigned when he became a candidate ; but; Mr. Nicholls and Sir Edmund Head had carried on the b us i ness s i nc e. The House would see that alth oug h two m i g h t carry on the business for a sho rt time, by great toil and a denial of the usual rec reation, that such an ar rangement would be detrisner ital to the public service. _(Hear, hear.) In a as•eek or ten days the entire arrangements would be completed, when he should be happy to state th e i t nature to t h e H ouse. With respect to the staternealt of the Honourable Member relative to the Bill introduced the other night by his Right H,onourable Friend at the head of the Home Department respecting crime in Ireland, he (Lord J. Russell) thought it would not have been fair on the part of Minis ters, or just to the Irish Members, to have appointed the second reading of that Bill for an earlier day than Monday neat.—(Hear, hear.) He could assure the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that her Majesty's Government lb ad no intention whatever to postpone the measure fin any stage, and that it was their fixed determination to proceed with it on Monday next. Mr. DISRAELI did not think her Majesty's Mi nisters were the parties who ought to depre ciate the labours of Parneau eutary Committees. Al though the Noble Lord ha d not virtually approved of the decision of the Andover Union Committee, he had acted upon it. After I aer Majesty's Government had acted upon the report, he thought it would have the appearance of vindictiv enema to pursue the subject further. Mr. F. FRE NCH had a right t o complain of the manner in which thouf J ' ilt that the Irish Members places connected with the administration of the Irish Poor-law were fill e d up..---(Hear, hear.) Almost every situation was suppli. A. by Scotchmen. Sir G. GREY would of ily remind the Hon. Mem ber that subject, was at th e h ea d a f th e Board, and that two Mr. Twisleton, who well understood the gentlemen who were re:di lent in Ireland were also members of the Board.—( Hear, hear.) Captain PECHELL ha I uo hesitation in asserting that the course pursued 1 by the Government led the public to believe that tl •Le decision of the Andover Union was considered by them to be correct. Mr. BANKES presm ned that the Government would not object to his second motion. Lord J. RUSSELL a /as understood to say that he had no objection to off. :r to it, Mr. BANKES said that in that case he would not divide the Ho use u p on 1 first motion, and begged to withdraw it The Hon. Member then moved for a return of the nal) aes of all persons who had acted as Commissioners • ff the Poor-law from the Ist of January la s t up t o th ( 3 present time ; distinguish ing the period s d ur i ng w: hich such Commissioners had held such appointment. LANDED ESTA TES IN IRELAND. Mr. OSBORNE mov ! d for a return of all land ed estates in Irel an d un d er t' tie management of Receivers of the Courts o f Ch ance! y and Equity Exch e q uer in Ireland ; stating the names of the receivers, their prof ess i on or c ccupation, and r esidence ; the situation and ex tent of property under each receiver, the an nual rental , t he number of tena n t s , the' amount , expended on each pro perty for improvements since the said properties came under the manage tinent of a Receiver of the IRELAND. Colonel THOMPSON presented a petition from a place in Yorkshire against coercive, and in favour of remedial, measures, such as the reclamation of waste lands, for Ireland. Mr. HINDLEY presented a petition, agreed to at a public meeting recently held at Ashton-under- Lyme, praying the House to adopt measures which, whilst they would repress assassination in Ireland, would restore peace and tranquillity to that unhanny country—measures of a strictly remedial character, such as a law to place the relations of landlords and tenants upon a better footing than heretofore, and the reintroduction of the Bill to facilitate the sale of encumbered estates. ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTS (IRELAND). 'Lord BRACKLEY presented a petition from a place in Staffordshire praying the House to construe the denunciation of individuals at the altar by the Roman Catholic priesthood into felony, and that the persons so acting might be punished accordingly. EDUCATION. Mr. TUFNELL presented a petition from De vonport, praying that the grant fbr education 'nigh be increased. JE WS. Mr. HAMILTON presented a petition from a place in Connaught against the admission of Jews into Parliament. CURRENCY. Mr. GIBSON CRAIG presented a petition from the Chamber of Commerce, of Edinburgh, in favour of the repeal of the currency laws of 1844. IRELND. Mr. OSBORNE presented a petition in favour of remedial measures for Ireland. CURRENCY. Mr. BLEWITT gave notice of his intention, when the House had decided whether the resolution of the Chancellor of the Exchequer or that of Mr. Wilson should be adopted, to move that it be an in struction to the Committee to consider and re port to the House, before they made their final report, whether a Bill should not 'ee introduced forthwith, for the purpose of enabling the Bank of England to extend their issues beyond 14,000,0001, as specified in the Act of 1844. DISTRESS IN IRELAND. Mr. J. O'CONNELL gave notice that, on the motion for going into Committee of Supply, he would move that the House do resolve itself into a Com mittee of the whole House, on 'Wednesday, the Bth instant, for the purpose of considering the existing distress in Ireland, and the means which the existing laws a...-Tord for the amelioration of that distress, and what measures ought to be adopted to meet the emerge ncy. CIVIL, AND RELIGIOUS DISABILITIES OF THE JEWS. Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that he would postpone bringing forward his Bill upon this subject till the 16th inst. CONVICTIONS AT POLICE-COURTS. Mr. C. PEARSON gave notice of his intention to move for leave to bring in a Bill to enable magis • trates of the various police-courts to endorse on the warrant:. of committal of prisoners in certain cases that it was not necessary to prefer a bill of indict merit ag-ainst such person, and hi such cases to allow the clerk of such court when the prisoner was sent for trial to file an information, which would be of equal effect to the finding a bill of indictment by the grand jury. POOR-LAW UNIONS. Mr. SCROPE gave notice of his intention to bring forward a measure for the purpose of affording facilities for the unions of England and Ireland to give et3aployment to the able-bodied poor, as prescribed by the yoor-law. SOLICITORS' FEES IN POLICE-COURTS. Mr. CHARLES PEARSON gave notice of his intention to move for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the fees of solicitors practising at the metropolitm police-courts, and to provide a cheap and efficient mode of taxing the same; also a Bill for regulating the acquittal of prisoners upun the ground of insanity, and making provision for their subsequent treatment ; also a Bill to provide the means of profitable employment for prisoners, and to enable the judges to pass sentences of task labour upon the prisoners ; also a Bill to explain the unaltered common law of England, which pro nounces as a rule that children under age are in eapacis doli ; also to make provision for such children, in conformity with the comnion law. REVENUE RETURNS. Dr. BOWRING moved for a return of all amounts not paid into the Exchequer, but deducted for costs of collection or any other purpose, from the gross receipts of the various revenue departments; and of all amounts received by departments of expenditure from any other source than Parliamentary grants or issues from the Exchequer (in continuation of the return of session 1846, No. 654.)—Agreed to. NAVIGATION- L A WS. Mr. RICARDO wished to know from her Ma leety's Government whether it was their intention to bring in any measure upon the subject of the navi gation-laws, as alluded to in her Majesty's Speech ? Lord J. RUSSELL stated, in reply to the Hon. Member, that it was not the intention of Government to introduce any measure on the subject until after the Christmas recess. DISSOLUTION OF JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES. Mr. CARD WELL wished to know whether it was the intention of the Government to proceed with any Bill relating to the winding up of joint-stock com panies. Mr. L ABOUCIIERE stated that a Bill for that purpose was introduced in the last session, but, in consequence of the lateness of the period, and the oppositi on it th en met w i t h , i t was withdrawn; the subject had been since carefully con sidered, and he entertained a hope that a measure would be matured which should accomplish the ob ject in view, without any of the objections urged against the last measure. CONVICT PRISONERS. Sir J. PAKLNGTON wished to know from the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department in what manner the prisoners sentenced to transporta tion had been disposed of, and what course was in tended to be adopted with regard to them in future ; and also whether any steps had been taken with a view to the formation of a convict establishment at Portland. Sir G. GREY said that a considerable increase had taken place in the number of prisoners employed un der the control of the Admiralty, and in connexion with the various dockyards and arsenals of the country. An increase in the number had also taken place at Bermuda. Inquiries had been instituted at Gibraltar, with a view of ascertaining whether any increase might be made in future in the number of convicts which might be employed there. He would also state that 400 prisoners under sentence of trans portation had been sent to Bedford Gaol under strict regulations. A large number had, as usual, been sent to Pentonville ; and the Government were taking active measures in granting tickets of leave to those prisoners whose sentences were nearly expired, to enable them to leave this country for Van Dieinan's Land, under the provisions of the Act passed last year. With respect to Portland, the Government had not been able to obtain possession of the land to erect the necessary buildings for the establishment, in conse quence of a dispused claim which had been set up as against the Crown by some persons who had a lease hold interest in the property. Lord MAHON - wished to know what had been the increase in the number of convicts confined in the hulks, as well as those employed in the dockyards and arsenals. Sir G. GREY explained, that when he stated that a large increase had been made in the number of those employed in the dockyards and arsenals, he wished to be understood to refer to prisoners confined in the hulks. He could not state exactly the increase which had taken place in the the numbers of such prisoners. AGRICULTURAL STATIS TI )5. In answer to a question from Air. lIINDLEY, Mr. LABOUCHERE stated that it was the inten- tion of the Government to introduce a Bill for faci litating the collection o f agr i cu lt ura l statistics. It was important t o k now w h at amount o f provisions there were in the country, and particularly in Ire land, and this Bill would afford the Lord-Lieutenant the means of collecting a large mass of information on the subject at a small expense to the public. Mr. S. O'BRIEN wished to know if the Right Hon. G ent l eman would have any objection to the ap pointment of a Select Committee to consider this question previous to the introduction of the Bill. Mr. LABOUCHERE thought the appointment of a Committee would be highly inconvenient. Cowl of Chancery,- and the arr,lare ‘A , hich have been allowed to accutnulato: He did not know whether tht '',l-overnment had any objection to offer to that nioLion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he would prefer the Hon. Member's resolu tion if it were worded in accordance with the recom mendations of the Earl of Devon's Commission. Mr. OSBORNE said that he had anticipated the wish of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and wJuld therefore place in the hands of the Speaker a motion in accordance with the wishes of the Right Hon. Baronet. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER said that he understood that there were some words in the motion of the Hon. Member which he felt he must oppose. Mr. OSBORNE said that he had appended to the resolution which he had placed in the hands of the Speaker the words, " also return of the amount expended on each pro perty for improvements since the said properties came under the management of a Receiver of the Court of Chancery, and the arrears which have been allowed to accumulate." He considered these words as the most important part of the resolution, and if the Government opposed him, he should feel it to be his duty to divide the House upon the question. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought it was not acting perfectly fair towards the Government to append any words to an unop posed motion without giving notice of the same to the Government. Mr. HAMILTON suggested that the better course to adopt would be for the Hon. Member to withdraw his motion, in order that he might have an opportunity of giving notice of his intention on the subject. 11r. GUINNESS said no subject of greater im portance could possibly come under the consideration of the House, and he trusted it would not be disposed of in a hasty manner. For 25 years he had been a receiver in the Irish Court of Chancery, and no one was more competent to advise the House upon the abuses connected with the management of pro perty under the control of the Irish Court of Chancery than himself, and he sincerely hoped this matter would be postponed. To show the necessity for not disposing of this question hurriedly, he would just mention three cases of abuse which had come under his own knowledge. For twenty-one years a large and valuable property in the county of Cork had been under his charge as receiver, during which time not one single shilling had been expended to improve the condition of the tenantry living upon it. The second case was a property yielding 4,5001. a year. It had been nine years under his care, and during those nine years the sum of 1681. was all that had been expended in cultivating the condition of the property or improving the property. The third case was one of a property in the county of Meath, yielding 1,6001. per annum. Upon that pro perty, during the ten years it had been in the Court of Chancery, there had only been 6001. ex pended for the benefit or improvement of the tenantry.—(Hear,:hear.) He humbly submitted that these three cases, which were only a few he had se lected from a large number of a similar character, constituted good grounds for asking the interference of the House ; and now that they were so anxious to ameliorate the condition of the sister kingdom, he hoped they would not lose sight of the large amount of landed property that was unfortunately placed under control of the Court of Chancery, but they would teach that Court that property which came within its jurisdiction had its duties as well as its rights.— (Hear, hear.) The results of the expenditure upon the property he had last mentioned were so remark able that he must beg the patience of the House while he related them. The 6001. had been ex pended during the last three years at the rate of 2001. per annum, and the result of the expenditure of the first year, namely 1845, was that he received 1,0001. over and above the annual rent, in liquidation of arrears. In 1846 he also received 1,0001. above the rent, and in 1847, during all the distress that had pervaded the entire country, he had received 6001. over and above the rent in payment of arrears.--(Cheers.) Sir GEORGE GREY could assure the House that there was no objection to giving the information asked for, and all that his Right Hon. Friend had required was simply that the motion should be put in such a form as was best fitted for obtaining the in formation.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. B. OSBORNE said, under these circum stances he would not press his motion in its present shape. The motion was then withdrawn. GOLD AND SILVER COIN. Dr. BO WRING was understood to postpone his motion for returns relating to the gold and silver coin, bullion, and bank notes in circulation, issued from the Bank of England since January 1845, and other returns connected with the Bank. RAILWAY BILLS. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, Mr. Hayter and Sir Thomas Birch were added to the Select Committee on Railway Bills. ADJOURNING DEBATES. Mr. BROTHERTON postponed the following motion until Wednesday :—" That when any new business is brought on after twelve o'clock at night, if it be moved and seconded that the debate on such question be adjourned, Mr. Speaker shall immediately declare the debate adjourned, without putting the question to the vote." COVICTION OF INNOCENT PERSONS. Mr. EWART rose, he said, to ask a question of the Right Hon. Baronet, which he conceived of the greatest importance, as it affected the administration of justice in this country. Several cases had recently occurred of persons being found guilty whose innocence had subsequently been proved. A girl, named Mary Ann Turfourd, was recently convicted at the Central Criminal Court, and sentenced to six months' impri sonment, for stealing a watch. A person was after wards convicted of the same offence, and the girl re ceived a free pardon. The next case was that of Thomas Whalley, who was sentenced at the Stafford Assizes to 15 years' transportation. After lying in prison eight months, his innocence was made manifest, and he was liberated. The newspapers had recently furnished another case—that of a person named Charles Butler, who having been wrongfully convicted, also received a free pardon. There were, he believed, many other cases. Three men, who had been for years in Van Dieman's Land, were proved to be innocent, they were pardoned, and received 101. each as compensation. To him it ap peared a solecism in language to say that a man who was innocent should receive a free pardon, because he was entitled to his liberty without its aid. Sir Samuel Romilly introduced a Bill to give compensa tion to innocent parties who were convicted ; but he did not live to see his benevolent purpose carried out. He (Mr. Ewart) considered that a court of appeal should be established for criminal as well as civil cases. It was true a writ of error might be instituted in a criminal case in a point of law, but such a court could not entertain any criminal question which rested upon facts alone. Sir Fitzroy Kelly, who was not now in Parliament, had intro duced a Bill to effect so desirable an object; but it did not meet with the support of the House. He wished now to know, looking at these cases, to which had called the Right Hon. Baronet's attention, whether the Government intended to establish such a tribunal ? Sir G. GREY said, in simply replying to the ques tion, it w mid be unnecessary for him to enter into the whole question with reference to the necessity of establishing a tribunal like the one suggested. He considered, however, that if a tribunal of the kind had been in existence it would have s fforded no re medy in any one of the cases brought under review. So unfavourable an opinion did it appear Sir F. Kelly entertained with respect to a court of criminal appeal, that whilst he sat in Parliament from 1844 to 1846 he did not re-introduce his Bill. With respect to the case of the girl Turpin, if a court of appeal had been in ex istence she must have waited to the ensuing term before an appeal could have been lodged ; and if a new trial were granted it could not have taken place until a future session. The Recorder wrote to him on the 24th of October, stating that a person named Walsh had been convicted of the same offence, and that consequently the girl was innocent. On that very day an order was sent from the Home office to the prison ordering her immediate liberation. —(Hevr, hear.) Her liberation could not have been effected more speedily. Then with respect to the case of Thos.W halley,for which he had received much blame. After a proctracted trial he was convicted ; for three months that case never came under his (Sir G. Grey's) attention, and be never heard of it until a memorial was presented to him in June. The usual course was then taken. On the 16th of June he referred that document to Mr. Sergeant Gaselee, who heard the case. Some considerable time elapsed before he (Sir G. Grey) heard anything further of the matter; but in the month of August, at his suggestion, Mr. Sergeant Gaselee was reminded that he ought to snake his report; on the receipt of the letter, Mr. Sergeant Gaselee stated that he had delayed making his report in conequence of the wish of the prisoner's counsel.—(Hear, bear.) On the 28th of August he (Sir George Grey) received Mr. Sergeant Gaselee's report,lbut it was of such a nature as to require fur ther consideration. The fact was upon the evidence that had been adduced. Sergeant Gaselee was satisfied of the correctness of the verdict, but further facts coming to his (Sir G. Grey's) knowledge, he referred the case to one of the Barons of the Exchequer, who also con sulted with Mr. Sergeant Gaselee, and on the 9th of October he received their report, both of then unanimously considering that the verdict was wrong, and that the prisoner ought to be discharged, and immediately upon that report being re ceived the man was discharged.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the case of Charles Butler, he was di.,rhargerl upon a nv.q.lical errtiente that hiF,frthPr AVith reaard to I Janger t confhleinerit would t the three prisoners transport‘24l to VAT) Diemair Land improperly, it was true that they were brought home, and had 101. each. With respect to the court of appeal, to which the Honourabl Member had referred, in criminal cases, he for one should be glad to get rid of the responsibility that attached to the office he had the honour to hold, but as to the establishing of such courts, he would not then go into the policy of the adoption of such a course. PAUPER LUNATIC ASYLUMS. _ _ Mr. DEERING inquired of the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether it be his intention to enforce the discretionary power vested in him by the Act 7 and 8 Victoria, c. 126, where an asylum for pauper lunatics shall not have been begun upon before August next in any county of England, the funds for defraying the expense of the same being forbidden by the same statute, as well as by the Act 9 and 10 Victoria, c. 84, to be raised at a higher rate of interest than five per cent.; or whether he means to reserve such exercise of his in tention until moved to do so through the medium of presentment by the local authorities ? Sir G. GREY said that if it appeared that the jus tices in any county failed in the execution of their duty, he should not fail to exercise the discretion vested in him. ADJOURNED DEBATE. On the order of the day being read for resuming the adjourned debate for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the causes of the late mone tary pressure, Mr. URQUHART rose and said that the Par liament were met at this period for the pur pose of considering the cause of public dis tress, and they were now informed by the Government that it was their intention to move for the appointment of a Committee whose inquiries were to be confined to a consideration of the affairs of the Bank of Eng land. He believed that the evil lay far deeper than in the state of that establishment. The Legislature was alone to blame for the state of the country. The evils were traceable to the abrogation of useful laws, and the pressing of other measures having a tendency to reduce the circulation of the country. The only remedy for these evils was to be found in the abrogation of those laws which had been passed upon the subject of the currency.—(Hear, hear.) The only effect to be expected to result from the operation of a law regulating commerce was an effect for evil. The effects of such a measure were to be found in the disruption of the affairs of the country. It had been found that a reduction of the rate of in terest had been instrumental in promoting the prosperity of the country, but under the operation of this law the rate of interest was raised, and the present distress was the consequence. With respect to the arguments which had been brought forward by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on a previous evening, he considered that they were only brought forward for the purpose of rendering abortive the inquiry to be instituted, and leading Hon. Members to suppose that the Bank Charter had nothing whatever to do with producing the ex isting distress. On Tuesday night last it was said that the present disaster was not the result of the Bank Charter, but that it was caused by speculations in rail ways. Now he would ask what railways were? They were undertakings like many other speculations in this country, at least in some respects; all that could be said of them was, that a great number of people were em ployed in their construction, and the wages those people received went to pay for tea, sugar, bread, butter, and other articles of food, as well as clothing. There might have been injurious speculations in railways; no doubt there were; but those were questions of a private and commercial kind. In railways it should be recollected there was no abstraction of capital from the country. How was it that our demand for foreign grain had not called forth a corresponding demand for our manufac tures? The expectations and hopes held out in that re spect by the advocates of free trade were sadly disap pointed—gold was preferred to our manufactures. The reason was, because there was a bonus for gold, and an embargo upon our manufactures. The lamentable result was, that many millions were drained out of the country, which had brought it to its present state. He would ask why was it that the price of gold was fixed ?—why was it that our gold sent out of this country during the war should have been sent at 51. an ounce, and now sent out at 31. I7s. 101 d. ? Free trade had been called for-- restrictions were objected to and denounced. The prin ciple was admitted. Why should not the same princi ples be applied to gold ? During the war we exchanged our gold at the then market value, but since the rule has become inflexible that gold should be at the same price under all circumstances and all changes. People who now produce a Si. note to get change receive sove reigns for it, but if every one who had notes wished to get them exchanged, and presented them for that pur pose, there would be no such thing as convertibility. — (Hear, hear.) He looked upon the fact that there was no fixed standard for gold as one of the most important topics of that debate. How was it reconcilable that they were for restrictions upon gold which represented all things ? He regretted to find that the consideration of the currency was not a party question. It had been hitherto left almost exclusively to usurers and persons connected with the Exchange. Those persons succeeded in securing the heads of parties in that House, and having done so, they further secured their bodies and their tails,—(Laughter) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer stated, with reference to the banks of Scotland, that they had to be supported. That observation was cheered by the House, manifestly for the purpose of throwing discredit upon those banks. Why should that be so? Some large mercantile houses in Scotland might have been, and he dared say were, embarrassed, but they never before bad seen a Chan cellor of the Exchequer come down to that House to speak in such a manner of so large a number of mer cantile houses. Why should the Scotch banks be sneered at? Was it because the industry and prudence of those who were connected with them afforded indis putable arguments that they were proof even against the currency system? They proved that the issue or cir culation of 1/. notes was not dangerous, and they give proofs of daily increasing prosperity, notwithstanding all the embarrassments and difficulties with which they had to struggle. The people of Scotland, who had so small a voice in that House, had paralysed the in fluence of the Minister who had bees able to carry his Bill of 1844, relating to the remaining part of the United Kingdom. The Right llon. Baronet stated in that House, in 1844, that, so far as Ireland and Scotland were concerned, he proposed to leave them for future legislation, as their circumstances were not only so different from each other, but also from this country; and especially, he avowed, as his reason for nut interfer ing with Scotland, that he did not wish to encounter so powerful a combination of public opinion. A more grave subject had never come before the House. It was one which influenced all public affairs for good or evil, chiefly for evil, and extended down from the richest banker in Lombard- street to the humblest peasant in the land. It was one that degraded our morality, and endangered our existence as a nation.,—(Hear, hear.) He would therefore meet the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer with a direct negative. The measure of 1844 had only been let in through the former Committee having come to no decision. It might be asked what interest Ireland had in this ques tion? A system which had brought mighty England on her knees, must lay Ireland in the dust. The latter country was not without capital, though she might have little gold. She abounded in capital, and was conse quently alike affected by our banking system. Let Irish Members, then, however much divided on other ques tions, concur on the question of money.—(A laugh.) In this question no party considerations were involved ; Hon. Members need not be trammelled by fear of oppo sing Ministers, or of voting black white.—(Laughter.) Mr. E. ELLICE thought it most extraordinary that, with the vast industry and mineral wealth of this country, periodical convulsions should occur, shaking commerce and industry to its centre.—(Hear.) Most willingly would he support the views of the last speaker, if ho thought any benefit was to be derived from the change lie pr posed. Few people, now-a-days, imagined that our evils could be remedied by a fluctuating standard.—(Hear.) How was such a standard to be used—how made ap plicable to our condition ? Such an expedient had never been resorted to in any country without bringing that country to ruin. —(Hear.) One of the most unfortunate steps ever taken in this country was, that, after having incurred such a vast amount of obligations during the war, we should resolve to resume cash payments in 1819. —(Hear.) He had deeply deplored this course ;. b ec u t t it The ob of was now too late to go back.---(Hear.) j that measure was to carry out in good faith that which Parliament had determined on. At that time his only objection to it was the reduction of the value of the ounce of gold from 81s. to 775. lOld., and on this ho had pro posed an amendment, but without success. He had since felt bound by that measure, and had been foremost in seeking to maintain it. Mr. MUNTZ—You cannot maintain it.—(Hear.) Mr. ELLICE—But we were bound to endeavour to do so as long as we could.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman then alluded to the crises of DUG and 1819, and observed that the bullion then forced out of this country had very soon after been found in the Bank of France. Then came the Right Hon. Baronet's (Sir R. Peel's) measure of 1819 ; and who did not remember the closely succeeding events of 11122, when 13,000,0001. of paper was borrowed from the Bank, gold took its departure, and the memorable disasters of 1825 occurred ? The Bank, with 30,000,000/. of paper out, was then so near stopping payment, that the di rectors sat in the parlour with their watches out, anxiously awaiting the stroke of four o'clock, to close the doors of the establishment.—(Hear, hear.) Other fluctuations of less import had succeeded., until in 1 1144 the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R.Peel) had proposed his recent measure, doubtless with the view of checking these fluctuations. To effect this the principle of con vertibility had been adopted. Though he (Mr. Ellice) approved of this principle at the time, he had now great doubts as to its operation ; and he entirely dissented from the inference drawn by his Right Hon. Friendthe Chancellor of the Exchequer, that t he measure of 1844 was the safest that could be devised. Surelyriedcenet events could not warrant such a belief in the occurrence ma any man.—(Hear, hear.) One recent had much tended to alter his opinion as to the security of the principle of c onvertibility. He alluded s to the vast importatioß! of grain, both in thi country and in France. While, in France, these trans actions, being chiefly transfers of grain from one part of the country to the other, had caused but little de rangement of their monetary ai airs—here, on the other hand, the whole of the funds necessary to purchase corn (CI hP frmrt the er-lt--,1 e ;rob?;Thmrnt, 01.: Bank of Fagland, the greAtest derangen.i.mt had 1 : , 1y withdrawal from ee the amount of gold sent out of the country.—(llear, hear.) Stich a state of things could not possib!y have occurred had our currency been based upon actual deposits cf money. It mattered not to this part of the argument what was the standard of value—it might be gold, or' tin, or any other metal; but with a fluctuating standard it would be impossible to conduct the vast affairs of a nation like this. He was no enemy to railways; on the other hand, he thought the Elon.Gentleman opposite (Mr. Hudson), the founder of the system, well entitled to the gratitude of the country. Still, it should be remembered that these conjoint causes, corn and railways, had been productive of immense loss—a loss which could not be measured by the amount of liabilities of the few unfor tunate men who had become insolvent. All had been subjected to losses—those who stood as well as those who had fallen.—(Hear, hear.) It was impossible to estimate the loss which the trading classes had suffered. Part of this loss was doubtless attributable to the rail roads; and the House might take blame to itself for htiving given too great encouragement to the competition in these investments.—(Hear.) Still, great good would arise hereafter from the railways; it was impossible to estimate the amount of that good; and in securing it we were in the position of a person who had crippled his means by the purchase of a deferred annuity.—(Hear,) Another disturbing cause was the connexion of the Government with the Bank.—(Hear, hear.) The Bill of 1844 professed to provide security against the Bank acting so as to injure the position of the country. The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer contended that this would not have happened had the directors acted discreetly. Why, had the Right Hon. Gentleman himself been governor of the Bank probably the same course would have been pursued. The whole system of every Chancellor of the Exchequer since 1819 bed been nothing but an abuse of credit; they blew the bubble of prosperity for the sake of the particular budget of the year—(Hear, hear)—though he =Set admit that his Right Hon. Friend below him had rather avoided this last year.—(Hear, hear.) But, in the po sition in which this country had been recently placed be thought it would have been better not to have taken up a loan, but to have raised the money by taxation. He never could understand why we should have any floating debt in this country when Exchequer-bills were at par. The fact was, that the whole of our revenue system was so mixed up with questions of currency and Bank ma nagement, that it was impossible to go into any inquiry without considering the whole.—(Hear, hear.) If he were asked what system he would substitute for the existing one, he must confess he felt himself very muchin the dark, and he believed we were a ll so.—(gear') After struggling nearly thirty year s with the principle of convertibility, he feared we must now come to the conviction that it could not be maintained, especially now that it was subjected to the test of failing harvests and free trade.—(Hear, hear.) In saying this, he spoke as a friend of free trade; but he conceived we had not yet seen all the effects of the system.—(Hear, hear.) The great defalcation of food in Ireland was another cause of difficulty; and this led to the inquiry, how were our existing deficiencies to be supplied? All these things conspired to make the present a state of transition. The Bank system of Scotland was an excellent one, be cause it provided, by the amount of the funds secured, against any such disaster as that which had occurred in to many of the banks of this country. He thought, however, that in times of pressure and emergency the Scotch banks should be able to a void the necessity 0 , c, ming to England for assistance. His Right Hon. Frieni said that the Bank of England was in a very healthy and flourishing state, and he believed it had that day re duced its interest to 6 per cent., but it was not the con dition of the Bank as much as the condition of the pub lic which had to do with the question. One of the most essential things to be inquired into by the Committee would be the dealing of the Bank in public securities! The present system was unsatisfactory and unsound, and he thought they should know better how to amend it after the inquiry of the Committee. He saw many reasons to suppose the revival of trade might not be so rapid as had been anticipated; and they must take care during the suspense between this great contraction and pr essure and a more natural state of things, that they did not strain the strings of the industry of the country too much.—(llear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said that certain of the large merchants ought to have been aware, as well as himself, of the approaching crisis ; but did he not know that the pressure of his eight per cent was hanging over every little tradesman in the country ?—(Hear.) Peo p le got it into their heads that this was the Government re of interest, and it was charged in every case. — hear.) He did not believe it was possible to suppose.! pressure under which the industry of the country would rot rise •, but they must take care to burden it as lightly as possible with taxation of any description.(Hear, hear.) As to our going on without credit it was itnpos; sible—it was a vastartificial piece of machinery, and vets abused on all sides— a by the Government and the Beni!, and yet we found fault with those who followed their example. The only two countries in the world in which theses crises had occurred, arising from a deficiency of the circulating medium, were England and America ; still, however, he knew the advantages and conveniences of our present system, but he hoped the Legislature would secure those advantages to the country without again exposing it to the risks and dangers under which it now suffered.—(Hear.) Mr. NEWDEGATE said it was quite an i sell necessary that for the w ß h a e n n k i s t h s o d u e ld pe g s o its in w to er t e he w m ith ar d k ra et w itwas s b e o cu u r n i d tie t t sacrifice its securities at the same time'; and they ought not to find fault with the Bank directors for complying with the enactments which had been forced upcn them. It was true that upwards of 35,000,0001. had be en ex pended on railways during the last year, but that awn had not go c3 n o3 e n, ot r o c ao u r, t yo o o, f ohle. the fmoru c so i t r o c rc u oo l . ation of the country. sp a aa n iy d dmtoe t n h tt e hoef real pressure had been produced by th e t er nte W nd bili t t b e a v Lad greatly aggravated the crisis, for large impfrinoerei tradetga h ti t o ri b s ° of corn must lead to large exportations of bullion, and its effect on the monetary system of the country must be evident. It was true that America had taken more of our manufactures, but then it had been at ruinous prices. He also contended that free trade had deranged the general balance of trade, and turned it against this country, as was shown by a reference to our exports ald imports for the years 1845, 1846, and 1847. The experts had fallen off 3,000,000/. in the last year, and 1,000,0001. iu the last month. That a system of free trade was inconsistent with a restri cted currency w proved by these results, and with the immediate pro dsping ect of recurring difficulty were they to rest content, pen the proposed inquiry (perhaps for the next 18 months), until our merchants were ruined, and all the labourers engaged on railway works, and the artisans era ployed in our manufactures, were thrown upon the poor-. rates?—jlear, hear.) It might be said th at there was now no deficiency of bullion in the coffers of the Bank. But how had that bullion been obtained? The Russian Government, taking advantage of the period of de• pression here, had sent some 300,000/. or 400,000/.ble of bullion in exchange for our securitie s, and it was possi we might obtain a still further supply by the sa t means. As to the dangerous t endenc y of being de pendent in this way upon a for ei g n Government, he fully concurred with the Hon. Member for Stafford. Suppose Russia should desire to possess 2,000,000 or 3,000,000 of our securities, by the Act of 1844 it was provided that upon a certain contingency the Bank should throw securities into the market. It was not impossible that when such securities were offered for sale the Govern (rni oitnmoifght rho, o o require on n t ray if at the wni ha a t tn w e o n u t ld of be th t e h n e c c a o u n r- - iti rence of the conting enc y eontemplated, when some ' an million or two of secur ities were thrown into the market, the Government and the Bank were both obliged to sell? Such an event, if taken advantage of by Russia, would have more effect in controlling this country than any war, while, as a pecuniary speculation, it would be ad - vantageous rather than otherwise to the Russian Go vernment. It was unworthy of the House by refusing those relaxations of the restrictions imposed by the Act of 1844, which the condition of the country demanded, to place us in the position of borrowers from any foreign power. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in speaking of the circulation, quoted always the Bank returns, with out referring to the country banks. The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had dis tinctly stated that the country circulation was 200,00846; 01. to 250,0001. less in October ,lB47, than in October, 1 that in Scotland it remained at a bout the same; and that in Ireland there had been a considerable reduction iu August this year, as compared with the sam e month in 1846. Mr. NEWDEGATE proceeded to show that in Au gust last the circulation of the whole United Sing was m wa o s nt l h es s s r i e n s p l e t3 c 4 fi 7 v e a l s y c : o i m n p A ar u e g d u w s t i , th 3,2 l 9 B o 4 , 6 o , o i o n l t ; h s e e f p o beg lio to 4,038,000/.; October, 4,450,0004; and in November, 4,250,000/. While the contraction of issues did 11 4 a mount to 2,000,000/., in the month of August , the cur" rency of the United Kingdom had decreased to t he es' tent of 3,292,0001., and in October to nearly four 1.5 d 6 half millions. Taking the whole circulation of the country at 40,000,0004, the contraction would be equal to ten per cent. The Right Honourable Bar onet could not, therefore, contend that there had been no Co n " traction of the circulation. He complain ed, also, al the operation of the Act of 1844, as giving an Oran' tags to the Bank in the discount mar ket, and as being opposed to the principle previously recognised, that * contraction of credit should precede a c ontractio n the of the circulation. He might be told that convertibility of notes was never endangered during.' the late pressure, inasmuch as t he Bank were comp to keep in their hands a certain sum of gold in propor tion to their issues. But in October last there was great danger of the Bank being either obliged to violaW O its charter or stop payment. At that time 1,176,000/. W truth all the notes it had in res erve ; and, if there was any In rumour, some influential bankers then waited on the G overnm ent and stated that they must withdraw their deposits from the Bank if something was not inse dia.tely done. These deposits amounted to about 8,000,0001., and had only 3,000,0001. been eudc l " l 4 withdrawn, what alternative would the B ank have h;7l but to stop or violate the charter? I t might be 9 .. . 4 83 they might have sold securities, bat what wa d o(4 ties have produced in the market under such circul: ves stances? These matters, he trusted, woul d be in.t gated by the Committee, but ho also hoped that the in terests of the country would not be endange red termination obstinately to maintain—pending i 6 a long t tedious inquiry—a law under which depressionsol...us continue and increase so long as the balance of tr mained agi.in it us, and that no dogmatic adherence toot principle which experience had proved to be erroneos. would induce Government to refuse to re lax an oPPre l sive and dangerous law. i-on• c altf Mr. MITCHELL attributed the commercial num ol n e: under which the country had been suffering to trading and improvident speculations , especially in:os ways, encouraged, he was sorry to say, by 1.1"'"-