The Sun. — London, England, 1822-07-24 00:00:00

\~ ~• T tr / • t ~ ''' , Ci'l 111 , - -, 7 \‘.4Ahiiiio,/, ......../". 4 .-- - - t -----,---_-_:, ••• .-4 W; ,. ' -'-'.---- . ' --:.--_--, • ~,,, -- 0 - • .- tizew-, --' e ;k 1; 14 1 ,4K• r 7:1----- T-# 419 /42 - .:6 '2 ii- it' j f)3 l el, ti 71 / 4 - i'll (,(i_1:...4,.. Oe; /""°lll A ti - - -----' •€2;;Y',.• z.g.... 0 NUMBER 9333.] ADMIRALTY-OFFICE, July 9.3, 1322. WIDOWS' PENSIONS. N()TICE is hereby given, that the WIDOWS of COMMISSION and WARRANT OFFICERS of the 'ROYAL NAVY, receiving Pensions from the Charity esta blished for their Relief, will be paid their Pensions, due the '3oth June last, at No. 10, New-square, Lincoln's Inn, by Edward Finch Hatton, Esq. the Paymaster of the Charity, Viz..-- The Widows of Flag-Officers, Superannuated Rear-Ad ,mirals, Captains, Commanders, Lieutenants, and Masters, 0 o Saturday, the 10th of August ; the Widows of Surgeons, Pursers, Ind Boatswains, on Monday,the 12th of August ; and the Widows of Gunners and Carpenters, on Tuesday, the 13th of August. and on every succeeding Thursday, between the hours of Ten and Twelve. And-Notice is further given, that Remittance Bills will be 'sent on the 10th of August to those Widows resident in tl;►e Country, who have requested to be paid their Pensions near their respective• Residences. J. W. CROKER. NEXT TUESDAY. jrand J. SIVEWRIGHT are selling Tickets , s • and Shares, warranted 'lndrawn, at their Fortunate `'ffices, 37, Cortibill ; 11, Holborn; 38, Haymarket, Corner Coventry-street; where they sold in Shares the Two rligliest Prizes drawn the First Day, viz. No. 1,639 (Class A) £2,000. No. 1,6:49 . (Class B) £2,000. NEXT TUESDAY, JULY 30, is the Last Day but One, and t hs TWO First Prizes will have £20,000 each ! The Wheel is 20 v perY Rich, and contains TWO PRIZES of :C3 0, 000, TWO of ' 4 ',000, &c. &c. Consols and Money. FOR CORNS, BUNIONS, &c. MORRIS'S ROYAL BRUNSWICK CORN PLASTER, prepared from a Receipt belong gto her late Majesty. It is an excellent Remedy for eradi. -Mi ng Cns, and giving relief to those who have hard &Shy substancores at the bottom of their feet, without the least pain °t inconvenience, and will prove a very useful Family Plaster f i ;ur fr es h W ounds an d S ca ld s, lik ew i se f or B un i ons . P repare d Y G. MOILRIS, Chemist to the Royal Family, Kensington. ~etioo Sold i n Boxes at I s . 1 4. an d 2 s . 9 d. by B ut l er ' s Ch em i sts , Cheapside, and 220, Regent-street, London; 20, Wa- Place, Edinburgh ; 34, Sackville-Street, Dublin ; and "Y the principal „„ m "• li. Purchasers are requested to ask for " Nlnants's / . 47 Nrsvelcii CORM PLASTER," and to observe the name, and 4 . m iress of " Butler, 4, Cheapside," are engraved on the ;I_ n otp attached t o eac h bnx, to distinguish the Genuine f ront _ 4I ITATIoNs under similar titles. PARLIAMENT, HOUSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY, JULY 23. NEW BILLS. Mr. BROGDEN and others brought up from the Commons the following Bills Scottish National Monument Bill, the Irish Public Orb Bill, the Silk Bounties Bill, the Charge of Funded. pebt Bill, Which were read a first time, and a message announc tig that the Commons had agreed to the amendments ma d e 7 their Lordships in the Scotch Juries Bill. v:he following Bills were then read a second time :—The Bill itExchequer Sittings Bill, the Exchequer Bills' Issue -Iteialegalt Duty Reduction Bill, and the Ireland Money -'l4---Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Col POOR LAWS. w o cll el WOOD save notice that, on Tuesday next, lie submit certain Resolutions relative to the Law of Sett submit FOREIGN TRADE. ZiFr. WALLACE brought up the Report of the Co mm itt ee n c iT r e psint ed tgli . Trade, which was ordered to lie upon the table, u . py r e . t„, India Loan Bill was read a third time, and STAGE COACH DUTIES. LUSHINGTON moved the third reading of the Stage egulation some words from Mr. Alderman Woon and Mr. s se ittII GTON, in reply, the Bill was read a third time, and and he New South Wales Trade Bill was read a third time, 'sued. pad Mal t Duties' Collection Bill was read a third time, and ru Ft e ll te Greenland Fisheries' Bill went through a Committee.— pt t to-m orrow . foni„W. WYNN presented a Petition from Bertrand Mit. Of .4 59., one of the Commissioners of Inquiry into Courts t,.uustice in Ireland, complaining of certain charges brought er te in4 him by Chief Baron O'Grady, in his letter to the Und eerer. Lika, - -tY of State for Ireland, and offering to disprove the of these charges by evidence at the bar of the House.— h - "lt tbe ' table, and ordered . to be printed. to rii ,e,hish Commercial Credit Bill was read a second time.— Trittee to-morrow. qsad , ; e Stamp Dtities Reduction Bill in Ireland was read a se. "'me- Committee on Friday. SCOTCH PRESS. wil l* LORD ADVOCATE said that his object in rising to LORD for a paper connected with the case of Mr. Murray 4 irtad wi elt, with the general outline of which the House was th 3 ' f amiliar. He and his Learned Friends had been tin4geti,, with sanctioning, from undue motives, the _prosecu. the B orthwick, as a Government measure, though it was el l " of Mr. Alexander, a private individual. This was bei t ,ge which h a d b een seriously made in this House; but, ofthe Pattl Y takeri by surprise, he (the Lord A.) was not of th e ;due able to give it such a satisfactory answer as he giv e lr i p v ise could. He was not able to state then that in G ore L to the prosecution of Borthwick the sanction of a Item m easure , there was nothing at all 'neon- Win.,` with the general practice of the Bar in Scotland.-- ,vo ta - ,m the instructions given upon that occasion by the ..4d iUl t ° the Clerk of the Court of Justiciary, authorising dikinorosecute the cause in that Court, enough would be wltt i —e4 d to vindicate those who issued them, from the charge ~tain motives. It would be the object of his motion to ob- Ae n - ,! .. °Py of these instructions. Having said thus much, as wisii - p r i e etse object he had in view for the present. ), he only Al — A &address one word to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to r.i,71-uetcrornby) opposite, hoping that he might be induced thi t sortie exp lanation of some part of his conduct in prese"lifi'ole affair, which as they stood at present, did not Initlivi c i„,ao appearance of candour, or even rigid justice to mtis e Frani the evidence of documents, to which the Part of,Vut have access, it was now clear that in a great w a rt to the statement made by -that lion. Member, there Z'ter ' e the least, very many inaccuracies. In Scotland, "at p 1 : 1 - .'s fact became apparent, as soon as the statement tivt;:lished, it was thought a little odd that he (the Lord cate), being in his place here, should suffer such un haps tto go forth, without exposing them to the House. Per. of Ile , in not - "g so, he had subjected himself to the charge for ; but if the House would only grant its indulgence Silen t W ° lnerit, he would explain the reasons of his silence. only in disnat e 4 ; ce r was, but that silence did not arise from any this Clouse")o defend the interests of the injured parties in Prise . ~ but from the charges having come upon him by sur oron h 'lad he had any intimation that such charges were to be ifall zito t forward, he would, of course have made all inquiry hi teir . truth or falsehood ; and he hoped his zeal would not l iatise ll a PPlying the result in the most proper manner in that to th So far too eq°o! as he w as hi mself concerned, he laid no blame l t and Learned Member, who, in the course which he lie om as undoubtedly entitled to canvas the conduct of any pith-, Pre s - 'eer in that H ouse, more especially when that officer was her h e l i t d He t that the Hon: Mem -43 the 0 _ .cult and importantd uty to discharge, and so far m de ich it was done was connected with himself, ' he made no complaint. But he had some reason to object to the Hon. Member, that in that part of his statement which re ferred to the Gentlemen absent, and, therefore, incapable of defence, there was not that feature of candour, and, perhaps, not of justice, which ought to characterise it. Having already explained that part which he (the Lord Advocate) had in the transactions alluded to, it was not necessary again to refer to it ; but it was due to his absent Learned Friends to state their share in these affairs. It was very true that in discussing the question how Borthwick should be treated, some difference of opinion sprung up between him (the Lord Advocate) and the other adviser of the Crown, with whose conduct he was now about to deal. Mr. Hope thought that Borthwick's conduct was so criminal, that the interferenceof the Crown in his prose cution was demanded ; and if he was correct in that view, cer tainly nothing could have been more proper than to resort to suchinterference ; for, to withhold it only because the other party happened to be attached to the Crown, would have been a dereliction of duty. He (the Lord Advocate) did not agree with Mr. Hope in his view of Borthwick's case; and not consi dering it so very criminal, he thought the trial, which , was then pending, would be prejudiced by any thing like Government interference. The decision which' was ultimately come to, the House was not ignorant of; but (the Lord Advocate) most positively denied that it was from a wish to injure Mr. Stuart that any steps were taken, and his failing to state so at the time proceeded from his inability to prove, by refer ences, that such interference was consistent with the prac tice of the Bar in Scotland. If he had agreed with Mr. Hope, Borthwick would have been tried at Glasgow ; and if Mr. Hope had agreed with him, this case would never have gone such lengths as to deserve the attention of that House. —But he hoped the production of this document to prove that, though his (the Lord Advocate's) own opinion clashed with that of his Honourable Friend, yet they were both ac tuated by pure motives. Having then such ample means of giving an answer to the statement of the Hon. Member, he felt warranted in complaining that no intimation was given that it was intended to bring forward such charges. He cared not for himself, but as far as concerned Mr. Hope and Mr. Menzies, he was obliged to say, that there was in the course pur sued by the Hon. Member not only no regard to common cour tesy, but an indifference to the, stricter laws of justice. He was not now raising the question upon the Hon. Member's right to meet this subject in Parliament—that he would not deny. But where the whole inquiry . turned upon facts—mere facts, which a latter inquiry would either disprove or confirm, he thought that the friends of these Gentlemen should have had some previous intimation, and, the effect of a first unjust im. pression be neutralized. The Learned Lord then went on to complain, that even in the mode of giving notice of the motion, there was a want of candour. The notice was worded as if it were to apply to the conduct of the Lord Advocate only, and the press of Scotland, but when it came to be detailed, it then appeared to be a studieclettack upon the whole Bar 'of §cot land. It was this want o candour which placed him (the Lord Advocate) in the unpleasant situation of being obliged to listen to charges made against his friends without being able to re fute them, for he was at the time ignorant of the facts of Borth wick's case. He also complained that in postponidg the mo tion for this Session yesterday, the Hon. Member did not give some further explanation as to the precise course which 'he meant to pursue. He (the Lord Advocate) did not wish the Hon. Member to recede from his declaration of prosecuting the case next Session , _ because it was his warmest wish, as it was that of Mr. Hope, that the whole subject should undergo the fullest investigation.—(Hear!)—The Learned Lord con cluded by moving, " That there be laid before the House a copy of the authority under which the Clerk of the Court of Justiciary empowered the Lord Advocate to grant his con course to prosecutions before that Court at the instance of pri vate parties, and the period at which those powers were first ex ercised." Mr. ABERCROMBY said it was very painful to enter again into these matters, when to do so would lead to no use ful purpose. Many strange proceedings had arisen out of the present subject, but the most strange of them all was, that the Noble and Learned Lord, after having had an opportunity of replying to the charges at the time they were made, should come down at this period of the Session and enter again into the discussion for the sake of arraigning his motives in the conduct he had thought proper to adopt. He should not object to the motion, nor to the production of any papers which any Gentleman should think necessary to the intended inquiry. In consequence of what had fallen from the Learned Lord, he should briefly explain the course he took, and which he be lieved to be the plain, direct, and manly course, under such circumstances. He first gave notice that he meant to bring forward the conduct of the Lord Advocate in relation to the Press in Scotland. When he did so bring it forward, he stated to the best of his abilities and information all the facts which connected the Lord Advocate and the other public Law Offi cers of Scotland with the conduct of the Press ; the influence which the Lord Advocate possessed, and the necessary effect of that influence having a good or a bad direction. The course which he then pursued he should feel justified in pursuing again under similar circumstances. But he protested against any one having a right to arraign his' motives when so acting in the discharge of his duty. He knew by experience as well as any one what he was, to expect in the discharge of that duty. lie knew that he stood upon his own single responsibility; and if, in preferring his charges, and in prosecuting this inquiry, he personally misconducted himself, he should do so at his own peril. He had had experience of the course intended to be pursued towards public accusers, but he should not on that account shrink from performing the task which he had taken upon him. By his introducing the case of Borthwick in his motion, the Noble Lord declared himself taken by surprise ; and said, that lie (Mr. A.) had no means of knowing that the Noble Lord was informed of the proceedings relating to that case. As the Noble Lord himself had conducted a part of the proceedings In the case of Mr. Stuart, he must be the last mar .in the world supposed to be ignorant of it. He had my 2y thrown out the case of Borthwick as one which shewed 'the connection of the Lord Advocate and his Deputes with the press. This had been his conduct, and upon it, no one was warranted in arraigning his motives, as the Noble and Learned Lord had done. The Noble and Learned Lord now dissented from that, but he said that his (Mr. Abercromby's) conduct was unjust and unfair, and he knew of nothing which questioned a man's motives if a charge of injustice did not. He had facts in his possession at the time of making his statement, which, when they transpired, would convince the House of its fairness and justice, and also spew the fairness and justness of the Noble and Learned Lord's charge. 'With regard to his not having given those Gentlemen notice of his intention, whom he alluded to in his speech, he could not see how it was to be ex pected that he was to inform all the parties he might find it necessary to name' in the opening of a case which occupied three hours. The LORD ADVOCATE said, he had not intended to question the motives of the Hon. and Learned Member,,but on the contrary, expressed himself perfectly satisfied at the man ner in which the lion. and Learned Member had made his charges against him, and stated that he had nothing to corn plain of on his account. But with regard to the Gentlemen who were not official persons, it would have been but fair dealing with them to have made them acquainted with his in. tention. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that had the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Abercromby) brought forward his motion yesterday, he (Mr. Peel) would have opposed it; but he solemnly declared he would have done so on public grounds only. He considered that the produttion of the papers sought for by the intended mo tion of the Hon. Gentleman would have been a most dangerous precedent. Being the correspondence between a principal and his deputy, he considered them in the same light as the corres pondence of a Lord Lieutenant and his private Secretary, and that being purely and strictly confidential, were not such docu ments as could be published safely or consistently with the manner in which such confidential communications should be always held ; and on that ground only, he declared, upon 1 his honour, would he have opposed the motion of the Hon. Gentleman. Mr. ABERCROMBY withdrew the motion after he was acquainted with the Right lion. Gentleman's intention, be cause he did not wish to create useless discussion at that period of the Session. The motion of the Lord Advocate was then agreed to. Mr. HUME presented a'Petition from John Hay, cotneain ing of hard treatment by the Lord President Hope, and other Judgesand Law Officers in. Scotland. The LORD ADVOCATE said that the Petitioner had be haved contemptuously towards the Judges, and had been treated accordingly. Mr. Secretary PEEL defended the Lord President. Mr. HUME,e*plained. The Petition **s ordered to lie on the table, WEDNESDAY, JULY 24, 1822. A Mes Sage from the Lords here announced their Lordships' assent to several Bills. PIRACY. Mr. CANNING presented a Petition from the Merchants and Shipowners of Liverpool, complaining of piracy in the South American Seas. The Petitioners stated, that in conse quence of the depredations committed by pirates (Spanish and Portuguese), for some years past, the lives and properties of individuals hid been sacrificed, the greatest inroads had been made on the commercial security of this country, whilst the British merchant was indebted for the imperfect protection he received on those seas almost solely to foreign flags. The Right Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to state particular in stances of cruelty and aggressions committed by those pirates. One British vessel, bound for Liverpool, was, on the 13th of December, 1821, attacked off Cape Saint Antonio, and boarded by pirates. The men having, been previously secured below, the steward of the vessel was called up by the pirates, who demanded of him to state what was the amount of money on, board, and where deposited. The steward not hav ing given an answer that appeared satisfactory, one of the pirates stabbed 'him to the heart, and he instant ly expired. The Captain was next called up ; the same demand was made ; on his not producing the expected trea sure, the Pirates ordered some of his own men to tie his hands behind his back, and to put a cord round his neck ; he was then pulled up to the yard. arm. The torment he felt was so intolerable as to induce him to call out to his own mate to put weights to his feet in order to put a speedy end to his miserable existence ; that, however was not done ; he was cut down, and as he lay on the deck in a state of insensibility, his brains were blown out by the same man that had stabbed the steward. The rest of the crew were treated with every species of cruelty ; and after the ship was plundered of all it contained, it was set on tire. Several other vessels were boarded from time to time in these seas, and the crew treated with little less severity. Such was the state of British commerce and navigation in those seas, that whatever protection was afforded to them, was affbrded by foreign flags. He (Mr. Canning) had no doubt but that every step that could be taken for the suppression of these practices would be taken, but if the mother country had not the power or the will to interfere, the time would very shortly arrive to take into her own hands the right of pro tecting her own commerce; from the unfortunate condition of Spain, it was perhaps true that she co u ld not with effect interfere to prevent those horrible depredations of which the Petitioners complained; in that case the Government of this country would take into its own hands the power of pro tecting the commerce, the lives and property of its subjects. Sir GEO. COCKBURN said, that when those transactions came to the knowledge of Government, it sent out instructions to the Admiral on the station to seize on all vessels which could not prove their nationali'y, and which had committed depredations on our trade ' • a statement was sent in answer to Government, that no actual proof could be made of depreda tions committed by any particular, vessel; Government sent out fresh orders to the Admiral, requiring him to seize all ves sels against which reasonable cause of suspicion existed. With• respect to the depredation committee) off Cape St. Antonio, the moment the Government heard of that transaction it excited their attention, as a case so enormous necessarily must have done ; it appeared that the pirates lay at the 'point of St. An tonio in watch for vessels ; that they anxiously looked out in order to distinguish merchantmen from ships of war ; and that sometimes they made their.attack in schooners and sometimes in small boats. The strictest orders had been sent out, as he had already stated, to seize all vessels against which reasona ble cause of suspicion existed. But there were great diffi culties in carrying the orders into effect ; for so long as our men of war were near the coast these pirates did not come out, but as soon as they were driven off by winds or cur rents, the pirates came out in their schooners and boarded vessels that happened to pass. The nature of the coast also favoured their piratical operations. The land on the west coast of Cuba was jungle, only intersected by small p a th s , so th a t if our s hi ps land ed t eir crews, the pirates would disperse through the country, and all that could be done would be to burn their huts, which were, of no value. If, however, Spain would send down a force from the Havanna, to attack their piratical settlements on the land side, while we sent a force against them on the sea side, we might bring them to the condign punishment which he would do the Spanish Government the justice of supposing that it wished to inflict. As to the giving convoy to foreign ships, this was what the Admiralty always set their faces against, be- Cause it was impossible for the Admiralty to be acquainted with the arrangements between Foreign nations as to the right of search, &c., and to give directions, in following which the commanders of our ships could be secure against v i o l a tions of the law. To exemplify his remarks, he should mention a case which had occurred on the coast of Africa. A Portuguese ves sel complained to the Commander of a British vessel of having been plundered by a ship under Portuguese colours. The British Officer seized the aggressor, which proved to be a 'Spanish vessel, and carried it to Sierra Leone, and afterwards to Jamaica, and proceeded against it for piracy. The Admi raky Court acquitted the Spanish vessel, the owners of which brought an action in this country, and cast the Commander in damages to the amount of 30,8001. in consequence of which he was obliged to absent himself from the country. Mr. CANNING and Sir G. COCKIIIIIIN explained. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to explain why the Government hitherto had restrained itself within the course inentioneci by his Honourable and Gallant Friend.— If the cases of aggression complained of were mere cases of undisguised piracy, there would be no difficulty in dealing with them; but the peculiarity was that the piracy was per petrated by vessels having commissions. At the commence ment of the contest between Spain and her Colonies, these commissions had been issued, not only by the Provinces which carried on war against Spain on the sea coast, but by Powers which had no ports, particularly by Artigas, whose commis sions were sold to cover piracies. In consequence of this, the Go- -1 vernment had issued orders to seize all vessels sailing under commissions from Governments- in whose ports they were not fitted out. As to the local Governments in South America, he would do them the justice to say that they had shewn every disposition to keep their cruisers within bounds, and, consider ing the difficulties of the case, had-made great efforts to do jus tice. But when the vessels sailing under the Commissions he had described were seized, it was necessary to prove that they had committed acts of hostility. These orders were at last en. larged, and our ships were authorized to seize vessels of the description mentioned on suspicion. He now came to the par ticular acts of piracy complained -of, which had taken place near Cape St. Antonio, and which were first brought unde r th e notice of his Majesty's in March last. The facts were first communicated to him in a letter from the Admiralty, of the 23d of March, 1822 (whi c h th e N o bl e L or d rea d), an d which stated three cases ; of the brig Maritime, of Belfast ; the ship Hermes,. of Liverpool ; and • the Alexandria, of Greenock. In the last named shp the master and steward were murdered. He lost no time in communicating to our Minister at the Court of Madrid. The letter to that Minister was dated the Ist of April, and inclosed the Admiralty 'com munication, and requested him to draw the serious attention of the Spanish Government to the necessity of putting a stop to barbarous practices, so inconsistent with the dignity of both Crowns ; it requested him, in making this communication, to advert to the practice of the pirates of availing them selves of the protection of the Spanish territory ; to state that the British Government •expected that the steps taken to suppress these enormities would be immediate and effec trial ; and to observe, that if the Spanish Government found itself unable to extirpate this horde of piratesythe British Government would find itself bound, in duty to its subjects, to take into its own hands the duty of bringing these criminals to copdign punishment—(Hear, hear !)—in which event it was hoped his Catholic Majesty's territorial rights would not be pleaded in bar of so manifest a public benefit—(Heer !)—Our Minister at Madrid received front the Foreign Minister, M. Martinez he la Rosa, on the 14th of May, a note expressing his feeling at the horrible acts of piracy detailed, and inclosing the order from the Minister of the Marine to the Political Chief of the Havannah, requiring him to take measures to apprehend these criminals with all energy and activity, and to pr ocee d agAirAt them with' all the rigour of the law. A communication had been made to our Admiral on the station, to know what was the result of these orders. So the matter stood at present. The Americans had found, the same difficulty hi - the Island of Cuba as we had, in proceeding without an authority from the Go vernment of Spain. There was, in fact, no settlement on the part of the coast which the pirates infested ; and though no doubt there were Spaniards and Portuguese there,- they were probably only the crews of the piratical vessels. He had a letter of the 11th May from the Havannah, which stated that th e Ma cedonian American ship had been there for some days, and had been negociating with the Captain-General of Cuba. The Ame rican Commander had applied to the Captain-General for per mission to land a farce -to destroy the pirates, but the Captain- General had expressed some surprise at the application, and had declared that lie had no authority to allow the landing of any Foreign troops on the Spanish territory. What this Government, must necessarily do was, to wait till the result of the orders of the Spanish Government to the Havalmah were known, and then if the pirates were not suppressed, to take the steps of which its duty to its subjects imposed on it the necessity.—(Heart) Mr. BRIGHT said the subject was of considerable import ance, as from beginnings smaller than had been des cri b e d, sprung some ye a r s ago a horde of pirates, which were the terror of merchants in those seas. The acts of the pirates at Cape St. Antonio were such direct acts of piracy that he saw no such difficulty in dealing with them as had been described in the case of the ships sailing with Amiga? commission. He could not but admire the superior success of the American navy in deal ing with these pirates;—as no less than five English vessels had been liberated by the American cruizers. This was owing, he was confident, to no superior skill or activity in American of ficers, but to a better system. He thought the active exertions of our officers in so important a matter should be encouraged ; and that when, in attempting really to execute their duty, they fell into mistakes, they should be indemnified from the legal consequences. Mr: MARRYATT said the present was a question between the human race and its enemies. There was now not that difficulty respecting commissions that once existed, as those of Artigas had been called in by' the authority that issued them. The diplomatic communications with Spain were very well as matters of compliment ; but would produce little effect, as this country had just tes much influence with the local Government of Cuba as Spain had. Cuba, though not nominally independent of the Spanish Government, had really paid no attention to the laws of Spain since 1809— having opened her ports to all nations in defiance of the laws of Spain, and having legalized the admission and sale, of slaves, equally in defiance of the dictates of the mother country. lit thought it of great importance that 'this country should afford to the vessels of other neutral States the same pro tection against the pirates that neutral ships afforded to us.— As Chairman of the Committee at Lloyd's, he had- addressed a letter to the Admiralty, repr4enting this necessity, and he had received simply for answer, that it was not consistent with the rules of the Admiralty to afford the protection of British men of war to any but British vessels." This might be, a very good rule in times of war, and certainly there was a reason for it ; but this was different from a time of war between nations. Pirates were the enemies of the human race, and we should afford to neutrals the same protection which others act ing on more liberal principles had afforded to us. British vessels had.been recovered from the Pirates by Americans, and had been restored to their owners ; ine Piratical ships had been carried into Charleston and the Pirates executed. The piracies were now increasing. Yesterday there were no less than three cases of ships plundered by Pirates on Lloyd's books , -.-the Hebe, froth London to Havannah ; the Alpha, from Turk's Island to Havannah ' • and a French ship, the name of whi c h he did not know. As an Underwriter he had no particular in terest in the repression of piracy. The Underwriters knew how to protect themselves, for on the receipt of the letter from Mr. Barrow, declaring the intention not to protect neutral vessels, the premium of insurance to the Havannah rose from forty shillings to four guineas. But he was sorry to see the lives and properties of men pursi;ing a peaceable trade so endangered. Sir G. COCKBURN said, there was not a shadow. of doubt as to the proceeding, when the pirates were taken. in the act of piracy, but if they were met with on the seas, as they were protected by a national flag, and every sign of a character to be respected, there was a difficuity in dealing with them. If any of our vessels saw an act of aggression committed on a vessel of any nation by a manifest pirate, the commander would with out hesitation interfere. General GASCOIGNE said an application had been made by the Underwriters at Liverpool to the Admiralty in Decem ber last. Sir G. COCKBURN—That applied to the general question. General GASCOIGNE said, the letter in answer to the me morial said "particularly in the neighbourhood of Cape St. Antonio, in the island of Cuba." Ile wished to know whether it was a . point of etiquette that the pirates should be seen in the act of piracy ? The Noble Marquis's explanation was inrfect ly satisfactory as to the future, but it was from the small atten tion paid to the subject hitherto, that the piracies had become so formidable. _ Sir G. COCKBURN observed, that the representations in Decembey could not have related to transactions at Cuba in the same month. Sir J. MACKINTOSH would say a very fear words on a subject so important not only to the protection of British com merce, but to the honour of England as the greatest maritime nation in the world. They would not hear, without strong feel ings, that the British flag flying on the topmast of the meanest vessel had been insufficient to protect it from insult and injury. But they were bound to express themselves with consideration, were it only to shew how deeply they felt the regard due to the interests of British navigation and.commerce, and to the rights of the British flag.—( Hear, hear !)—A most important point of consideration was embraced in the motion of the Hon. Mem: her for Ipswich, which would be speedily before the House.— The representations to the Government of Spain respecting those Colonies over which they had nominal controul, would be more matter of compliment than of substantial effect, but a recognition of the independence of the States of South America would do away with all the difficulties respecting convoy which had been complained of. Mr. CANNING said, the only doubt now was, how long a time should elapse before the Government of this country might take into its own hands the business of suppressing these pirates. With all deference to the law of nations, and with every feeling of amity to the particulir Government, the para mount duty of protecting its own subjects required that it should take all means, first in the ordinary ways of negociation, and next, if those ways fhiled, by a resort to force, to prevent the recurrence of the enormities they had heard of. Mr. F. BUXTON called attention to the case of the officer who had been mentioned, who having gone beyond the letter of his instructions to do a great act of right, was debarred from access to this country by the damages awarded against him. The debt should be considered a national debt.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—The Commander was entitled not only to indemnity but to reward.—(Hear!) The Petition was laid on the table. Mr. CANNING moved that the Petition be printed, to give it all possible publicity. Ile suggested also the propriety of printing the Dispatches read by his Noble Friend (the Mar quess of Londonderry.) Lord LONDONDERRY, said, there was a delicacy as to printing those Dispatches, the substance of which he had stated. He had no doubt of the wish ofSpain to give effect to the orders that had been issued. Mr. BRIGHT suggested the propriety of affording convoy to British ships in the West Indies. Sir G. COCKBURN said, there was a great difficulty to get British ships to sail under convoy, as the Hon. Member was well aware. The Petition was ordered to be printed. CANADA TRADE AND GOVERNMENT BILL. Mr. ELLICE presented a Petition, signed by all the re spectable Merchants of London connected with the provinces of Upper and Lower Canada, in favour of the Bill now pend ing in that House for modifying the trade and incorporating the Legislatures of those provinces. He confessed he felt some surprise and regret at hearing the present measure, the object of which was to give an independent Constitution to the pro vinces of Canada, assimilated on a former evening to that odious measure by which the British Parliament sought to de. prive the province of Massachussets of a free Legislature. He was the more surprised to hear this measure so characterised by his Hon. and Learned Friend (sir .1. Mackintosh), as his Hon. and Learned Friend had admitted that the terms of the Union appeared to be fair and equitable. He was satisfied that, if the Bill were passed, it would be received with gratitude and satisfaction by the great mass of the population of Canada. Mr. BRIGHT thought the circumstance of this Petition having been signed by all the respectable merchants connected with Canada, was itself a reason for postponing the Bill to the next Session, for it was to be. presumed that the sentiments of thwe merchants coincided with those of the people of Canada, and if the people of Canada were likely to approve the measure, if time were afforded them to declare their opinions, there could be no objection to the Bill standing over. It was idle to talk of the freedom of the Provinces of Canada, if it were in the power of a people at the distance of many thousand leagues to take away their Constitution without consulting them. He pro tested, on behalf of our absent Colonists, against the wicked ness of introducing so iniquitous and abominable a measure at this late period of the Session. Mr. MARRYATT said he had received strong representa tions from many persons connected with Canada, that the pre sent Bill was likely to produce the most injurious effects. Under these circumstances he should certainly feel it his duty PRICE SEVENPEI4E. to oppose the Bill, if the Hon. Gentlethan did not consent to withdraw it until the next Session. . Sir F. BURDETT, without entering into the abstract quest; tion, how far it was right to legislate for the interests of our Colonies without previous communication with them, begged leave to protest against the exaggerated expressions of the Hon. Member for Bristol (Mr. Bright), which imputed to his Ma-. jesty's Government an act of gross injury and tyranny against the Provinces of Canada. Hating very different views of this question fium the Hon. Member for Bristol—feeling that great credit was due to his Majesty's Ministers for the very liberal views they entertained on this subject, and believing, that if the same enlightened system of Colonial policy had been pur sued in early times, it would have been much better for the in terests of this country, he felt it his duty to protest against the harsh and violent expi,,sions of the Hon. Member for Bristol, which had no foundation whatefer in reason or justice. Mr. BRLGHT said, in explanation, that he had given no opinion as tb the goodness of the measure. He objected only to its being brought in at this late_ period of the Session with out the knowledge of the people of Canada. When he felt strongly, he expressed himself strongly, and he would continue to do so, notwithstanding what had fallen from the Hon. BEt ronet, who was himself much in the habit of Using strong lan guage in that House, and whose opinions on the present occa sion he (Mr. B.) confessed he had heard with some surprise. Sir F. BURDETT said, he Was extremely sorry if he had made use of any expression which gave offence to the Hon. Gentleman. He could assure him that he meant nothing offen sive to him, and that lie intended only to advert to What he could not help considering language which was uncalled for in the present stage of the bnsiness. .Mr. WILMOT fully concurred with the lon. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett)•, that the lion. Member for Bristol (Mr. Bright) was wholly unwarranted in denouncing the conduct of his Ma jesty's Government as wicked, and calculated to destroy the li= betties of the people of Canada. Mr. BRIGHT repeated that he had given no opinion as to the goodness or bidness of the measure. What he objected to was the time at which the Bill was introduced. • Mr. HIDIE thought the attempt to pass this Bill without the knowledge of the people of Canada, justified his Hon. Friend (Mr. Bright) in characterising the proceeding as wicked and abominable. He did hope that the measure would not be pressed, until some documents could be laid before the House, to shew wiather the people of Canada approved cr disapproved of it. Mr. ELL/CE said, he should never have advised his Ma, jesty's Government to interfere with the Legislature of Upper and Lower Canada, if the necessity of the case had not called for their union. On the question for printing the Petition, Sir J. MACKINTIOSII rose to correct a misconception of his Honourable Friend, the Member for Coventry Ellice) as to what he (Sir James) had said on a former night. He had never compared the present measure, in point of mildness or harshness, with the penal act for abolishing the Legis lature of Massachussets, He had merely quoted the Massa chuSsets Bill as the only instance in which- the Parliament of Great Britain had attempted to interfere with the internal constitution of any English colony. He would challenge any Member to chew, in the whOle statute-book, any instance of in terference with the internal constitution of any colony. The Massachussets bill was the only example of such an interfer ence, which was adopted on the very eve of a civil war, and which was a part of a series of measures intended to prevent the revolt of America, but which in fact provoked and precipitated that revolt. Ile had not compared the present measure with the Alassachussets Act in a moral point of view, for he did not wish to excite so unfair a prejudice against it, whether it was adopted now .or delayed till the next Session. He had never applied any expressions of censure to the bill itself, for he ad mitted that the conditions of the Union appeared to be fair and reasonable. He had , certainly deprecated most strongly the attempt to pass a bill, depriving a free colony of their consti., tution without hearing their i opinions and arguments for or against the Measure. He confessed he had heard the sentiments of the Honourable Baronet (Sit Francis Burdett) on this sub. ject with the utmost surprise. He (Sir J.) had never on any occasion carried his opinion, as to popular rights, so far as the - Honourable Baronet; he had ever been extremely sincere in his political opinions • he approved of every part of the Constitution, and he preferred and loved the popular part of it; but he had never carried his opinions so high as the Ho nourable Baronet; he was the more astonished to hear the Honourable Baronet defending the violation of a principle, recognised even by the most moderate advocates of popular rights, namely ; that a free people ought to be consulted before introducing an important change in their political constitution. This was the first time he had ever heard it argued that an in corporating union of two great colonies was not a most essential alteration of their political constitution. The annexation if Holland to France might on such principles have admitted of an easy defence, and it might have been said to the former power, " We d o not take away the rights of Dutchmen, but onlywe communicate to you the rights of Frenchmen." He objected to such an interference with the rights of a free people on grounds wholly distinct from the merits of the constitution which might be imposed upon them. He no more wished to see liberty imposed on a people than despotism, for even liberty imposed on a people did not deserve the name, anti was little better than despotism. The people of Canada had no less than two years' notice previous to the measure of 1791, for changing their constitution from a monarchical to a popular form of Go vernment; whereas Parliament was now called upon to mak. a total change in their form of government without any notice, when they already enjoyed a free constitution. He protested against-a measure, which not only violated the right of this colony to be heard before its political constitution was altered, but which was calculated to shake the happiness and security of every other colony which we possessed. Mr. W. SMITH concurred in the propriety of postponing this measure to the next Session. Mr, ELLICE said, that if the Bill were passed under the present circumstances, it would go forth to the people of Ca nada under such misrepresentation as would destroy all the be ficial effects which would have otherwise resulted from it. Under all the circumstances, therefore, he thought it would be better to divide the Bill, and allow that part of it which related to the union of the two provinces to stand over till the next Session. The measures to which no objection was made, namely, the change of tenures, the settlement of existing ferences by arbitration, and the arrangements with regard to the internal trade of the two Colonies, would, of course, be compiehended in the Bill which would pass this Session. He could not help lamenting, that any misapprehension of the in tentions of his Hon. and Learned Friend (Sir J. Mackintosh) with regard to his opposition to this measure, should have in duced him (Mr. Ellice) to advise his Majesty's Government to proceed soar. Sir J. MACKINTOSH saicl 4 that though he had certainly expressed himself to his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ellice) on this sub ject, in terms which corresponded with the sentiments of regard and friendship which he had always entertained for him, yet he had at the same time declared his determined opposition to the principle of the Bill, Mr. ELLICE begged to call to the recollection of his Hon. and Learned Friend the conversation which had passed be tween them on this subject. He certainly should not have per sisted in advising hig Majesty's Government to proceed with this measure in the present Session, if he had been prepared for the determined resistance which had been made to it by his Hon. and Learned Friend. Sir J. MACKINTOSH admitted that he l'ad not wished h's Hon. Friend to withdraw his Bill out of deference to his (Sir J.'s opinions, but he had never given his Hon. Friend any rea son to believe that he (Sir J.) had relaxed in his resistance to the principle of the measure. Mr. DENISON said, he believed his Hon. Friend (Mr. El lice) would not hale persisted in the measure, if he had been prepared for the Opposition of the Hon. and Learned Gentle man (Sir J. Mackintosh.) The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that as his Ma jesty's-Government, instead of finding the support they vc pected, had been strenuously opposed,- not on the prindp of the Bill, 'but on a point even more embarrassing, /lame ly, the period of the Session at which it was introduced,' it was obvious that the measure could not be passed, except under circumstances which were calculated to alienate the feelings of the people of Canada from the proposed arrant e ments. He lamented that the Honourable and Learned Gentleman (Sir James Mackintosh) had opposed the mea sure in a tone of earnestness, which rendered it almost impos sible to carry it through in the present Session. Under all the circumstances, therefore, he felt it 'inconsistent with his public duty to press the measure, however much its postpone ment was calculated to injure the real interests of the petit I: of Canada. He protested, however, against the principle, tttat Parliament had no right to legislate ror me best interests of de . most distant dependencies, without previous commurattion with those dependencies. Ile could not conceive any Find ar , :04 ; he