The Sun. — London, England, 1804-03-12 00:00:00

IMP ERIAL P R lAMENT. HOUSE OF COMNIC_VS. SATURDAY, MARCH 10. THE Dublin Watch Bill was read a first, and or. tiered to be read a second time. A new Writ was ordered for Preston, in the room of joHrg H -RRocE.s, Esq. deceased. Mr. CORItY moved the Order of the Day for go. ing into a Committee on the Irish Duties Bill. , The Order having been read, Mr. CORNY said, that before he made any fur. ther Motion upon. this -subjed he : wished to say a few wor,ds. In the course of the Debate of yester. day, some doubt was thrownout, that the gip be fore the House was one that affrded the.interest of the Crown, and that therefore the Royal Assent ought to have been signified. He was ready at that time, and he was ready now, if it were proper, to spew that the Bill was conformable to the precedents of the Parliament of Ireland. He also understood, though on _this point he could not speak so posi tively, that it was not without precedent in the Parliament of. Great Britain before tie Union; and in the Imperial Parliament, since the Union, thete were precedents, viz. the three different Aas which had passed relative to these Duties. ; it was true they were only annual Bills, and therefore he ,did not rely entirely upon them. But though there were precedents of that nature, if it could enter into the imagination of any man that this measure trench ed upon any constitutional princip)e, he certainly would be the last man to take advantage of them. Bat as there had not been sufficient time since the ooubts had been thrown our, to ascertain how the principle - stood affeaed by this proceeding, he should, in order that full time may be given for consideration, move to ,postpotie the Committee . till Monday. Mr. FOSTER said, that the great doubts and difficulties which-had arisen in his mind upon the subjeel were founded upon the circumstance of this Bill being perpetual, therefore he did not conceive that annual Bids could be considered as any piece. .. dent. , ' The Motion was then agreed to. The Committee on the Irish Countervailing Duty Bill .was put off till Monday. The Irish Malt Bill was read a second time. Mr. YORK E moved the Order of the Da y for go ing into a Committee on the 'Volunteer Bill. The House having resolved 'itself into a Corn. rni ttee, _ Mr. YORKE then proceeded to propose some new Clauses. Tne first was, to invalidate any agree_ ments that might lave been entered into between Masters and Servants, by which the latter were prevented from entering into Volunteer Corps. The next was a Clause to repeal a Clause in a firmer Bill, compelling the Parish to pay the Drill Serjeants : they are in future to be paid out of the Public Purse. These Clatises were agreed to. The next was a Clause authorizing the Commander of a Corps, in case of any Member misbehaving him self, to deprive him of than day's pay, or else to disallow that day as one of his days of exercise. Mr. PITT said, , the Clause now proposed would have some OfFed, 'hut still he did not think it would be sufii4;ient. He had prepared some Clauses upon this subject, which would go a little farther. One of 'them was to give the Commander of a Corps a power to order any. Member misbehaving himself while under arms, into custody during the time the Corps remained under arms ; to inflid,fines as high as five shillings, in cases of non-attendance, not taking care of their arms, &c. He did not think that this would give any offence to the Volunteer Corps, because it certainly was not an unnecessary, severity. He meant this to be a general Clause applicable to all Corps. If a person should feel self dissatisfied with these Regulationg, which he' did not think probable, still they had the power, to resign. But he entertained no apprehensions upon the subject, and he should certainly take an oppor tunity of proposing them in some stage -of the Bill. 14 r . TIERNEY said; he very much approved of the Regulations suggested by the Right Hon. Gen tleman, but he was apprehensive • that some Corps in Town would feel'a degree of jealousy upon the sub_ jets. They were in many respects different from most of the Corps in the Country ; they received no pay, and many of the Members who kept shops, ,t,vho perhaps had only one apprentice, or perhaps none, would feel themselves much hurt at being fined so heavily, when they really could 'not leave 'their business without the greatest inconvenience. But as to the power of ordering a Member under an arrest for miscooducl while under arms, he, thought there could be no objeEtion to it. • Mr. PITT said, that these Regulations might be applied only to the Corps who received pa}'. • Colonel EYRE thought there was no occasion for any further Regulations, and therefore should ob. jet to these Clauses. The Marquis q fTlTCHFlELDapproyed.entirely of the ideas of Mr. Pitt upon this subjeet, and that they were highly advantageous to the Volunteer sys tem. If he might presume to offer any thing in ad iition to that which came from so high an authority, it would be, that the point of discipline to which the Clause referred, should be judged of by a Mili tary Council in the way of a Court Martial, subjeft to the approbation of the Commander of each Corps. Mr. Secretary YORKE thought both the Clause which he had proposed, and those proposed by the Right Hurt. Gentleman, might lie adopted, for they were not in the - least inconsistent with each other. He approved uf-the system cf imprisoning Volunteers among thern;elves for the day, when they, were tin der arms, if they had miscondtieted themselves in the _ranks ; and he thought the ideas submitted to the Corurni:iee by that Right lion. Gentleman very ;good. He dissented from the mode in which Mr. Clause proposed to levy the fines, but thought they should be submitted to. a Court Martial, aS had been hinted by a Noble Marquis : he thought also, that all these proceedings for fines and penal ties shOula be subjed to'the - apprbbation of the Corri minder 'of each Corps, Mr. ASCZLLES thotii;lit, that generally speak. ing it was itnp , litiC - 1 0 impose on Volunteer Corps any other fines .liar those; Which originated with • • Mei - iveh , Cs. Mr. PITT said, that he had not so distinaly, perhaps, as he might have stated, what he meant by miscondoEt of a Volunteer under- arms ; he did nor mean general misconduct, for which the Commander had power already to.punish him, in some degree, by expressing,displeasure, Stz.;- he did not mean to give a geoeral latitude to the Commander to punish in the sple,fic manner he 'proposed for general mis conduft, but he meant to apply the punishment he proposed, if any Volunteer under arms should particularly misbehave, should neglea his arms and accoutrements, or cloathing, in any remarkable man ner, or should - behave himself indecently, or art contrary to most of the rules and regulations of the Corps, then some pinishme,nt might folloW, and that the punishment should he specific in order that there should be no doubt what the result must be of such miscOndua. •Perhaps the better way would be to take the Clause` of the Right Hon. Gentleman first, and thenihat'his (Mr. Pitt's) Clauses might be brought up and read, so that the Committee might the better understand the meaning of them; which course was adopted. He proposed that per sons misbehaving in the way he stated, should be imprisoned in their own Corps for 'the day they were out, &c. That in some instances the fine should be as high as five shillings ;. in others, no higher than one shilling, to be. regulated by the fat, whe ther the party incurring the forfeit contributed to the Poor's Rate or not. Mr. Pitt professed him. self very happy to hear the sentiments - of the Nobre Lord on the other side of the House (the Mai-gals of Titchfield) on all occasions, and particularly on the present occasion. He did not entertain any . doubt of the propriety of the Court Martial sug gested by that Noble Lord, 'provided the sen. tence of the Court . Martial was made subjeCt to the approbation of the Commander, but he owned he thought the summary power of other punishment might be mo:re'etreitual than the fines themselves. After some further conversation, in which Mr. Curwen, the. Attorney. General, the Secretary at War, and other Gentlemen, took part, the Clause of the Secretary of State was received and agreed to, as were all his other Clauses. n " )After M r. PITT proposed his Clauses, which, he said, he submitted to the Committee i without saying any thing in their behalf at present. The first Clause for providing fir tile tines, being read; The ATTORNEY GENERAL thought, as a permanent system, the Clause a very wise one, but doubted , whether,it was advisable to adopt it at the present momerF, under all circumstances. He was afraid it might. be, under all the circumstances, endeavouring to do too much ; it was better, per. haps, to do 'a little less, although the system was defective, than by endeavouring, to make it perfeft, possibly in some mvsure to overturn it. He was afraid of proceeding too far upon the compnlSory 'system with Volunteers ; that might be reserved in case His Majesty should - call forth his subjeas un; der the compulsory enrollment. PITT suggested that much, of the objedions which seemed to be .entertained against too lunch of the compulsory system being appied to Volun teersrnight be done away, by making i diitindion between those receiving pay, and those Who ,did not. He thought, upon a moderate comptitation l the system he proposed would impxove the military discipline of i 50,000 men in a very short time ; objet well worth attending to at this important crisis : and this he meant a 3 applicable to those who might not come forward, under an invitation, to put themselves on permanent duty, which, after all, was the very best way to make them good soldiers. This was a matter not to be neglected, for we might look for the event in:which we should have to resist the,enemy in the course of a few weeks at farthest ; now he could have no hesitation in saying — that might , be done . effedually by the Volunteers, discreetly mixt,with.the forces of the line ; an,; to do so effedually, care should be taken of the improve ment of the. Volunteers in their discipline. He felt this so forcibly, that he must press it upon the House, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed with the Attorney General upon this suojed, that it was dangerous to try to accomplish too much in the system of military exerci s e of the Volunteers ; but he thought the Volunteers had already made great progress in: that matter. It was supposed . that twenty-five days would be sufficient to in_ strut,`{ them tolerably ; now there were 11Prdly any of them who had not been instructed fur forty, and some of them.for more than sixty days. He was persuaded that Parliament had acted wisely in giving the 'Volunteers an opportunity of ading as they have, and he could not help thinking that the degree of discipline they ha*l acquired already, would afford us all a degree of confidence, not only in their further improvement, but also warrant our reliance on their sufficiency to meet any veterans of the Enemy. He 'conceived, that at this moment, the Volunteers had attained such a degree of discipline as no one at the time of their first establishment had any idea of, nor even at the time when the first VOliinteer Bill was introduced ; sand he owned . _ that he contemplated with astonishment, as well as sa tisfaction, the degree of perfedion at which the Volunteer . System was now arrived ; and this justi fied 'the hope that a very large portion of the Volun teers of England, mixed with the Regular Troops, were fir to meet the, veteran Troops of France, and that our Ineeting of them so would give us nothing short of• hope- and full confidence of immediate success. But he did entertain-strong doubts of the prOpriety of this Clause, 'on, tbe ground which had been statecil by his Leained Friend,. the ATTORNEY observed, that in the last war, the y(Aunieers were only Iso.coo, and yet they an swered the purpose for which they were intended,— no one complained of their inefficiency in the course of the last" War . --they achieved "a great object in the course of their services . in Ireland, although they were neither half so numerous, o r under any such regulations as they are at present. His main object was, that Regulations of the Volunteers should be left,' as much as possible to the Volunteers them selves; that Parliament should interfere as little as possible with the in ternal , rhulations and manage inent of Volunteer Corps, and partittif:* in the system of inflicting penalties. He had no doubt of the efficacy of the system recommended by: the Right Hun. Gentleman 't Mr. "ITI . ) as a permanent system--hut clerc was riot some risk in adopting it at the present moment. Mr. PITT said, he certainly was willing to hope With the Right Hon. Gentleman, and to believe, and even to he confident, that there was indeed a very considerable portion of the Voltinteers of Great Britain, who, in concert with the Regular Force, would to of great utility in the contest which we are now to e xpea ; but he could not disguise from t h e 1-I,)use, because he .could not disguise from him self, that very many of die Volunteers were in, no degree advanced to that state of discipline in which we could wish to see them, and in which it was indispensably necessary they should -be in be fore' they could '-be essentially serviceable to their Country, wheiCcalled . - out for its defence, and in support of its existence. There was an error in the judgment of many Gentlemen who had spoken upon the subject of the military discipline of the Volunteers ; too many judged of the Volunteers of England from the brilliant Corps of the Metropolis, whereas it was notorious that many Corps in the country were in nothing like the same state ; many of them had but just received their arms, which under the many difficulties with which we had to encounter, was not to be wondered 'at. But from what he himself knew, and .from the credible in formation he received from others, from the various fluctuations and uncertainty that were incident to this System, there were many of them in a state in which it was impossible to say they were any thing approaching that situation described by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He. did oot . say that many of the Volunteers, who may in the course perhaps of three weeks be put to the proof, and may' have to meet with the Veteran Troops of France, that they would not acquit themselves with . honour in union with Troops of the Line, nor that ultimately they would not be successfurin the contest for the defence of the Country ; that was .not the question to be now discussed ; the question now was this : What was the most speedy mode of making the Volunteers efficient for the purposes of Action, with as little loss of blood as possible ? for I that . was to 'us the most interesting part of the sub, jeft, and with the care of which that House was'en trusted. As to what had been said of the Volun teers of Ireland in the last War, it did not apply to the present case. They had long been called out, and had been on permanent duty for months, and some of them for years, antlacquired the qualities of Veteran Troops, which was not hitherto the case with the present Volunteers. He did not say there was any doubt that our Volunters would meet and defeat the ,Veteran Troops of France, but the ques tion was, What was the best mode to make them meet the Enemy with the best Chance of saving the effusion of British blOod ? He was not 'to be told what the Volunteers were the last War ; for no man would say, however serious the apprehension of In was during the last War, that the danger was then anything like'the danger with which we were threatened now. There never was a period io which the. preparations for invading this Coun try, were upon any thing like the scale of the present preparations --, so much so, that Parlia ment had 'already expressed its sense to that effect by the measures it had brought forward. It• had ine.eed'onee thought of making many regu lotions upon the discipline of the Volunteers ; but had afterwards confided that subject to the discre-, don of Ministers, in the hope that much would have been done, but Ministers disappointed that hope, and therefore Parliament ought now to a& for itself. As to the idea . of not attempting to do too much, it was observable that, if these regula tioos were lileely to have a bad effect on the Volun teer system, the. hopes which he entertained that many OS them would consent.t6 be put upon perma nent duty, by which 'they would certainly be sub-, ject to *eh more rigotir, were very ill-founded ; he did, however, entertain sanguine ,hopes they would, in great numbers, accept of the invitation to. be put on permanent duty, as the very best means to make them a good - military force, and to exer, cise ourselves betore the French come was the best mode of enabling us to meet them when they do, not only with a certainty of triomph, but alsb with a reasonable expectation of conducing the contes,t with as lirtle,effusion as possible of British blOcid, He should he glad if every Volunteer in England could put himself fur a while on a perManent mili tary duty ; but that, in the nature of things, was itn, possible ; there were many who could not 'possibly so engage. He admitted that muchbad been done al. ready, but that was no reason why we should not do as much more as possible. • This was a matter to be considered most seriously.. Comparisons between this a nd the \ lat War were absolutely idle. The whole of the preparations of 'France for. Invasion last War were loudly equal to an advanced guard of one of its numerous posts at present. He did not' disparage the Merit of the Volunteers, nor was he insensible of what they had already done; he only enforced the necessity of doing every thing that was in our power to meet, upon the best possible advantage, the Enemy, and that in a few weeks to decide a contest, on which net the interest or welfare, but the existence of this country, was at stake. Nei. ther did he wish to disparage the valour of his countrymen—he knew what' men contending for their ,freedom and existence, unarmed and undis ciplined, could do ; nor had he any idea that the e ff orts o f a %%hole People, such as Britons, would not be uitimately,successful, although they might be undisciplined, He knew that every freeman ought to be a hero in such a contest, and he was confident that few indeed among , us would disap point the expeaations of Country in that ex tremity, should we come to it. But that was not the question—the matter for the consideration of the 1 - louse was, what was -the best mode for meeting the tremendous and awful contest, which must be ex. peeled in a few weeks, upon a rational expec tation of spilling as little British blood as such a contest can possibly admiz The crisis was at a certainty approaching,' it would -be ,our own fault if we were pot prepared for it-it would be the fault of that Hpuse if it should not do every thing in its power ;o prepare for it. No man in the leingdoM ought to have any reason hereafter to reproach himself with negligence upon such a sub je&. He would not tire the Committee with fur_ their tube a observations. 'Some he had delivered, he ad. revetitior. of what he had urged be lore, possibTriT4 might fitit — irter tne ju0, 5 , 7 - others, who were not convinced bY - them before• - lie certainly had nO 1 - iope that the argument' °, others could alter the opinion he'had now deliv're3n upOn this most momentous subjcd, for ‘vhich reasa he found himself compelled to press this clause fa the adoption of the Commit tee. Mr. BRAGGE contended for the proprietY conforming to' certain regulations ;' nay, 0/ 6 " 1 ” 1- lously adhering . to theM.; it was, to a c ertain d s. e ct -, gree, obviously a quetion of good faith with ttai VolunteerS themselves ; and the Committee recolled thar the sandion of Parliament had been given on ihe'oceasion. The Ouest inn was' here pret,ty loudly called for. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQPIEL desired to. make one or . two observations which,b.6 had omitted to state when discussing the proli °sl " tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman. , . He must del that experience shewed the necessity of the Inejs ure recommended. He had heard of . no complail made by any CorPs, as to an inSufficiency of inter r r discipline. He adverted to the provision for holding a _certain part of the Pay of the Voluntee.rs ~ "hile u pon military duty, whiCh he considered 3 : likely to tend,. in a considerable 'degree, to 0 , 5 maintenance of good order and discipline. • 11 1 11 1 in effed, went to subjed the Volunteer to a who should miscondua hituself while under arms.. The Cornmittee then grew clamorous for I V Question. Upon which a division took place, w il° there appeared Ayes shoul o Noes Majority for Ministers - 1 The discussion upon the remaining Cl au ses ao Provisions of the Bill continued a Consider able t• - e , longer ; but as Strangers were excluded th e ;minder of. the evening, we are prevented f r , detailing' what took place. We understand , li°,`sc: ever, that the remaining Clauses' and Schedules.,. of the Bill were gone through by the Commit t ` c o a. the Report received by the House' pro forn/( 7 1: r ' the Bill ordered to . be again recommitted for I\4 o- i when some additional Clauses are to be proe ' e l ' • and at half past seven o,'Clock the House adjoin MAILS. RT lvs DVS, 0 11.1mLurgh 3 PRICE OF STOCKS, THIS DAY AT Ttlf/ELVE O'CLOCK. 6 ,3 M tools - - - - - 5-'4 6. ••• THE SUN. 40LEM QUIS DICERE FALSUM AUDEAT ? LONDON, MARCH 12, i8o4• Queen's Muse, March r r, 4t HIS KA J Es T'l is considerably better to-dAy than he b a yet been since the beginning of his illness.'! (Signed) "L. Yso s. F. NI.ILMA• "H. R. REYNOLDS "W. HEBEROV4• Queeles House, March " Ills MAJESTY cor)tinue* to recover. Art. (Signed) " 1.. PEPYS. H. R. REYNOLD*. .C_W 14'0. 1 to Wc are extremely h:tppy to state, in aclaitt, the above, that lits MAJESTY was yesterday so a for recovered.as to he able to walk in the Garden short time. T o: 4 About two o'clock yesterday, Mr. AWN ° had an audience of His MAJESTY. o' o Viscount Wewrwoß.TH and General Go al) 3 11 R attended yesterday Sr. James's, as. Lord - Groom in Waitirg• • Ttl E firing off the French Coast continued . - iv e Saturday and' yesterday, but nothing had o ' l 0 1 from that quarter, when ~the Post left De al %, Dover last night, so that use are still left 03 c° r oo, iefture with re :Ted to the cause. It doubt ;t er/ cetded from an attack made by some of our tt on a part of the Enemy's force, but effc remains to be ascertained. t 01 . V. lial:a4urgh Papers to the ist inst. were Y es- e e 1' received in town. Several private Letters °l6 ;: e t4 ' received from France, which, though not 0 15° e a date as the last Paris Papers,,containmore de(3- accounts of the arrest of MOR AU, It is . Sid ce l l° 3. \ d is now confined in the Temple, to which pla "" been removed from the Abbey, and that n° r crs ,oo not even his. wife, is permitted to see hiiu• von First Consul and his Lady Ord the greate st ss cern for the fate of MaR.Ao and 'exl" r . e ., strongest wishes' that he may p rove to 'be li" wceo o sy That BQNArARTE may attempt to play off 5° ' f g , i$ a piece of affeftation, we have no doubt, 'b ut et (c impossible that it can for one moment ittiP s- Str °°P v e upon his abject slaves at Paris.—Nlo fi asserts his innocence, but even if he s hould P t c wlier it, it would avail but little, in a countrY O c,r° there is no Law but the will of a suspiciou s I and where the Grand Judge, 'previous to any on has taken upon himself solemnly to determine °` the guilt of the person accused. YESTERD A Y morning CLINE, the Ad :f 0 14 ' Messenger, went from town for the purr s- ° D ot' ing into his charge the man calling himself •Al4-j,,y, soN, whoM we mentioned in \ our Paper o f S4l`iflliac I and who came Passenger in 'the Prussian was detained by the Guardship off SouthF - "' ld ' ipt says that he is fraught with a vast f a un" i , is rlt p. , itant information for Mr. ADniNgrol'