The Sun. — London, England, 1822-03-28 00:00:00

• • . M •••• IT. his cases ' in order to go and assist Mr. Baron Wood in the tral of criminal cases, while two Learned Serjeants were actually sitting similarly employed in an Anabaptist Chapel. He could not conceive any act of cruelty greater than that an innocent Man should continue for months under accusation of a crime, without being brought to trial. It was unjust, because without any other punishment, the imprisonment alone was sufficient to break down the mind and the spirit of an individual. He never could admit that the administration of justice was per fect, whilst the prisoner had longer than three months confine ment before trial. The Lent and Summer Assizes were very well placed to admit of another gaol delivery. There could not, in his opinion, be a more fit time for this than at the Quarter Sessions, when a Judge might be appointed to preside at the Criiiiinal Court, whilst the Magistrates took charge of their own cases. There could not be a more appropriate time than this, when the Grand and Petty Juries were assembled toge tier, with all the county gentlemen, and, as it were, the pub " Ac. He knew that an objection would be made to this plan, 'ln behalf of the Judges, who, it would be said, could not be spared in term time. But six Judges would be required to go t•o the Circuit for an extra gaol delivery through the whole , country ; and he thought no expenc e oug ht t o b e spare d to g r .' 'render the administration of justice throughout the realm more - perfect.—{hear.) Mr. PEEL said, that any - one who had read the Petition, - or had heard the speech of the Hon. Member for Essex (Mr. Western), could not fail to be impressed with the importance of • the subject of which it treated. He conceived that nothing could ,be more proper to petition that !louse upon, and that Hon. NSembers conversant from their situations in the country, with ' - these meters should express their opinion a s to th e b es t m o d e of impfovingthe administration of justice ; and he thought the -least return that could be made for the manner in which the unties of the Magistrates were performed, was to attend to the sepreftentations made by them, involving subjects connected , wall the duties of their situations.—(Hear I)—He assured the - Nouse that this subject had not escaped the serious attention of - bit Majesty's Government, and he hoped the communication he • had to make on the subject would convince the House that they were by no means disposed to undervalue the importance of the question. At the same time, the Hon. Gentleman oppo eke (Mr. Western), must in candour admit, that they ought not to approach a change in the established mode of administering justice in the country without due caution ; and without taking especial care not to disturb that opinion as to the iimpartial administration of justice, which it was so desira ble should be entertained by the country at large. The fact that the system of this country was the most perfect sys . • tem of Jurisprudence in the world, imposed upon them the ne cessity of observing great caution in approaching it to make any change. With regard to the remedies proposed by the Ron. Member for Essex, upon first sight, he could perceive many difficulties in the way of the adoption of the plan laid • down by him. That plan was, that one or two Judges should attend at the Quarter Sessions to preside over a Criminal Court, and make the Grand and Petty Juries in attendance co-operate with him. In the first place, it was impossible to a carry that into effect without increasing the number of Judges, and to that all men who had turned their attention to the subject entertained very great objection. That difficulty therefore must o- -be the first instance be surmounted, and then there would re main other difficulties of still greater magnitude. Any one who bad witnessed the administration of the law at the Quarter Ses siOns, not fail to have remarked the vast difference there was betwixt the Grand and Petty Juries on that occasion, and -those at Assizes.—(Hear.)—This being the case, the Hous e • would see to what it would, tend ; and nothing was more to be - avoided in the establishment of a new Gaol Delivery, than the impression that criminal cases were disposed of with less care and attention than at the Assizes. If there were an impres sion on the country that they were attended with less solemnity, it would greatly deteriorate the cause of justice. Another difficulty attending the Quarter Sessions was, that by law they were required to be held withi n a week, after a certain period, which would -disable the Judge and the Counsel from returning to their duty in the Courts in London in term time. He would take, for instance, the October • Quarter Sessions, to b e h e ld w i t hi n a wee k of, the 11th Oc tober. Supposing that day to fall on a Sunday, the Session -might not begin before the -19th, and the term beginning on the flth November, how was it possible that the Judge and Counsel • could return to their duties -and places in the Court of King's - Bench, and other Courts,-in sufficient time ? The same would he the case in January, or any other of the periods. These, • he knew, were but the details, and might be overcome ; but the-objections as to the number of the Judges, and other ob , ,lections, were insuperable to any thing being done without the • maturest deliberation. The best way was to apply the means within their power to remedy the evil ; and he had to state that, after fat consideration, Government bad determined next winter to make the experiment of a third gaol delivery in all the counties of the Home Circuit.—(Hear, hear!).—Thus, in Essex, Sussex, Kent, Hertfo r d s hi re , an d S urrey , a J u d ge • woul d go the Circuit, and have the usual assi s t ance o f a G ran d • and a Petty Jury. These Counties were selected for the ex.- t eriment, on account of their proximity to the metropolis, not being so open to the inconvenience in point of time to which • these more distant were subject ; and also in consideration of die greater number of crimes, in proportion to the larg er po pulation. The County of Middlesex had eight gaol deliveries, on account of its vicinity to the Metropolis. He might make Many other observations as to the impolicy of changing our system of jurisprudence ; b u t h e ra th er li m i te d hi mse lf to t h e declaration made, as to the nature of the change proposed.-- , (Hear, hear !) Mr. LESTER pointed out the evils arising from the pre sent -system, which he thought loudly called for reform. He -hoped the Right Honourable Secretary would not stop in his • proposed change in the counties he had mentioned. There was no occasion to add to the number of Judges, as one might be taken out of each of the Courts of Westminster-Hall, where four were sitting on each bench. As to any fear of there being barristers enough to do the duty, he would advise that no apprehensions should be entertained on that head, being eonvinced that if they left things to themselves in this, as in ail other cases, the supply would be found equal to the demand. leet the Crown say the word, and the emphatic fiat be pro. nouneed, and they would see a system, adequate in all its parts, spring up without loss of time, and without difficulty. Mr. PEEL stated, that he had omitted to observe before - that no additional expence would be entailed on the Judges, by this addition to their duties.—(Hear, hear !)—Nothi ng wou ld be more unjust, and he was sure the House never would coun oonance or wish' it.--( Hear.) Pen DICKINSON could not admit that the Home Counties were more entitled to this preference than any oth ers . fi e would instance the County of Somerset, which had the city of Bath belonging to it. When Government turned their attention to other counties, he was sure they would find many that de -mended consideration as well as the Home Circuits. He hoped too that there would be no additional labour imposed on the Al agishates. Sir•E. KNATCHBULL observed, that as the Right Hon. Secretary had called the change of system he had mentioned an experiment, - there could be no doubt that it would be ex tended if found to answer. Of the necessity of it nothing could be more decisive than the grievance of which some of his oonetituents had to complain, in what had lately happened at Maidstone. It was true there were but twenty-eight civil • . causes set down for trial ; but still the inconvenience to the suitors in those causes was incalculable. If this were consi dered as a light grievance, it was very probable it might hap . gagain, and against this he was extremely anxio us t o guar d. e suitors in the Nisi Prius Court would be secured an easy aod competent trial. Kr. CHETWYND said, that many cases had come under .. 4 3 knowledge, as a Magistrate of a populous county, of per sons having been longer confined before trial than after, and of e„.. others who having been confined a long time, the Grand Jury • .ferand that there was not even a prima facie case against them. l'here could be no doubt that a more frequent Gaol Delivery yea most desirable, and he was very glad it was in such good hands as those of the Right Hon. Secretary (Mr. Peel.) He was extremely glad, however, to hear that no additional ex ,perice was to be thrown on the Judges; for he thought none of our public officers were so ill paid as the Twelve Judges. He .• ail° thought that Magistrates would be equally considered, as they we already so overburthened, that independent country Gentlemen were glad to keep out of commission. Mr. W. SMITH thought the evil was so great that not one bat ten experiments should be tried rather than that it should not be lessened. He knew of a case that had occurred, in which a an was proved to have ill-treated his apprentice to such an - eirarit that he died in consequence, and that man, guilty of all bat murder, was imprisoned for one year. •In another case a man, after being confined eleven montns, was discharged with oat trial. , Surely here was an anomaly on one side or the • other—dud the man who had been guilty of the highest crime next to murder was to receive the same amount of punishment we be who had done nothing against the laws of his country. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, he was fully aware of_the importance of this subject, and the inconvenience suffer ed undet,the existing state of the law ; but in proportion as it was important, were they not hastily to adopt any scheme to amend it ,without adequate deliberation: P onhe difficulty of deal with theesoll in question might be judged from the circum atancsorthere being such various opinioni as to the mode of re .-- eanetly.mg it, as they had heard broached in the course of the dis . -vainon. The experiment spoken of by his Right Hon. Friend -.(W r. Peel) was to be tried upon the Holm Counties; and he was sure that it could not be extended further without new mo sitifihsg the Courts, and increasing the ri t iliber of Judges. The *TV irbtan of a ..wonteof !information as to the quantity o • business expected— Ssieth ebingit.itad occurred at etherAssizeili The imprisonment kaiftoretrial was an evil that most alwayl exist to a certain v ex aj t- IA 411 they did, they must above-all take care that us- tice was administered satisfactorily to the people.—(Hear.)--- Justice must be done without hurry ; and the people must feel that they had the best talents of the Judges. The situation of a Judge should be an inducement to Gentlemen of the highest talents at the Bar. They had little enough leisure at present ; and if they increased their burdens, no Gentleman sufficiently qualified would be met with to accept the situation. After the experiment had been tried, the House wo u ld b e b e tt er a bl e to judge if it should be continued or extended, and if so, how far, than at present.---( Hear.) Dr. LUSIIINGTON assured the House that he had for merly given consideration to this subject. He was satisfied that no additional duty could be performed by the present Judges ; and he agreed with his Learned Friend opposite, that the ques tion of increasing the number of Judges was one which de manded the most serious consideration. But between two evils they must choose ; and he really was at a loss to discover where the Judges were to find time even for the third circuit proposed by the Right Hon. Secretary. If they increased the number of Judges, he should be reluctant that there were less than four in each of the Courts of Westminster Hall; and he should he the first to oppose any proposition for appointing a Judge for criminal causes alone.' With regard to the salaries of the Judges, he knew they were not high enough, and that many persons had refused promotion to the Bench because they could not afford to accept it. Mr. Alderman C. SMITH said a few words which were not audible in the gallery. Mr. D. SYKES said, that the experiment had already been tried of disposing of minor offences at the Quarter Sessions, and although the trials there were not conducted with that de licate attention to form and solemnity which prevailed at the Assizes, yet he thought the practice might be extended gene rally to other offences. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY, said, it was natural that gentlemen connected with counties should have taken this opportunity of stating their views upon the subject, and of pro posing the mode which they thought the most likely to remove the difficulties which pressed upon them ; but he hoped that even with the view of extending a remedy to the inconveniences felt in distant counties, the plan of his Right Hon. Friend would be found the best that could be suggested. If the remedy should be attempted on a large scale in the first instance, the:object might be defeated altogether. The Home Circuit was in every respect the fittest foemaking the experiment. The in stance referred to of the Northern Circuit was an additional ar gument for a cautious, but not, therefore, less accelerat e d course. There a second Assizes had been tried first in two Counties, and then it was generalized. But a still greater de gree of caution was necessary here. But enough had been said to shew the nicety of a third Assizes, and the impropriety of rushing at once into th e course o f sending judges forth without a well-digested plan. With respect to the part of the country with which lie was more particularly connected, he could say that Ireland looked with anxiety for the extension of a similar plan, because the mode of holding the Assizes there pressed on counties as well as on prisoners. This was an additional reason for proceeding with caution and deliberation. His Right Hon. Friend could not have given a better pledge than he had given, by beginning on a scale which rendered the experiment practical. There were counties where the number of prisoners was so limited, that the more frequent holding of Assizes might be felt inconvenient. Yet the pressure upon one individual was not less severe, because there were but few prisoners in the same county.—(Hear.)--If the mass of counties required it— if it should be applicable to the great majority of counties, no thing would turn attention aside from a third gaol-delivery as useful and desirable. The Petition was brought up, read, and ordered to be printed. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN WALES. Mr. WILLIAMS seeing the President of the Board of Controul in his place, wished to ask if it were his intention to bring forward any measure founded on the Report on the pre sent Administration of Justice in Wales to improve the system at present acted anon ? Mr. C. WYNN gave it as his opinion, that in order to bring forward any good measure on this subject, it must be looked at with a reference to the administration of justice here, and to prove effectual, it must be connected with a general measure for the improvement of the administration of justice. Mr. WILLIAMS then gave notice, that shortly after the Easter recess, and as soon as the professional Gentlemen who were Members of that House had returned from the Circuit, unless it were taken up in another quarter, he would bring for ward this question in a Committee of the whole House, if per mitted to do so. Great advantage would result to Wales from raising the character of its tribunals. He should therefore first submit to the House a set of resolutions, and if hesucceeded in cf.: ging them, he would then move for leave to found a Bill on them for the further improvement of the administration of justice in Wales. IVIAtRIAGE ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Dr. PHILLIMORE rose, pursuant to notice, to bring in a Bill to amend the Marriage Act. He confessed to the .House he had this object greatly at heart, and he was sure the reasona bleness of the thing would induce the House to accede to it.— From the Reformation to the time of George the Second, nul lity of marriage was unknown to the Constitution. According to the ancient law, a male of 14, and a female of 12, might contract marriage, and be called on in facia' eccksite to perform that contract. The only way in which such marriage could be annulled was in the lifetime of the parties, and not to have the effect of bastardizing their posterity. Mr. Justice Blackstone was of the same opinion. There were some things in the exist ing Marriage Act of which he did not disapprove ; but there were others, such as regarded the marriage of natural children without the consent of testamentary guardians, which were ab horrent to every principle of justice. The Learned Member cited cases in which the marriage of parties was annulled after a cohabitation of 20 or 40 years, merely on account of informalities. The object of his Bill now was, that it should be competent to the parent or guardian to impeach the marriage during the mi nority, but not after that period. When parties came of age, he thought they should be bound by their own acts previously. In order that persons taking their wives beyond seas should not be sheltered from his Bill, lie intended it should contain a clause that if they did not state their dissent in some foreign Court for that purpose, they should be equally bo u nd as if they w ere i n England. - And unless, he would further add, all persons marrying underage should signify their dissent within six months after their coming of age, such marriage should not be annulled. —The law, as it now stood, promoted perjury, and fraud, and should be remedied as soon as possible. Since the year 1810 there were no less than sixty marriages annulled in the Courts of Delegates and Arches, exclusive of the number which must have also been annulled in the other Diocesan Courts, which had equally the power of annulling marriages as those to which he had alluded. The security of property, the quiet of domestic families, the general happiness of society, called for the speediest amendment of the existing Marriage Act. He had the advan tage of seeing that Bills of a similar nature had been sanctioned by the House on former occasions ; and he would follow the analogy by an amendment which he would introduce into the Bill—the banns4astead of the present mode, which allowed their be ing published in any place, would be required to be pub lished in the parish where the parties resided. At present the clergymen were allowed at their own option to demand a no tice of three days before a marriage could be contracted ; but the present Bill would require that it should be imperative on the Clergyman to demand it. A regulation would also be in troduced to prevent Clandestine Marriages, by which the names of the contracting parties, besides being published in banns, would be required to be affixed to the church door. He was convinced that even Lord Hardwick and the framers of the present Bill would have, given their sanction fully to the new Bill, if they were aware of the consequences of the carrying that Bill into effect. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. LEATHER AND HIDES. Mr. MABERLY moved for accounts of all the raw and tanned hides, imported during the last ten years ; also for ac counts of all leather exported, during the same period, toge ther with the amount of drawback allowed.—Ordered. Mr. BRIGHT presented a Petition from the Corn Im. porters and Merchants of the City of Bristol, praying that the House would take their grievances into consideration—Read, and ordered to be referred to the Committee on Agricultural Distress. On the motion of Lord PALMERSTON, the return of the disembodied Militia of Ireland were ordered to be referred to a Committee, which was then appointed. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER moved that the House should resolve itself into a Committee of Supply. Mr. HUME had some questions to put on the subject of the returns which had been laid on the table on Monday. It would be in the recollection of the House, that in the course of the late reign 8,000,0001. had passed into the possession of the So vereign which had not been brought under the view of Govern ment. On the accession of his Majesty, it was provided by Act of Parliament that all sums received from the Colo nies of Demerara, Gibraltar, and other places, should every year be regularly laid before the House. In a paper laid on their table, signed Charles Arbuthnot, he found a sum marked as received from Demerara of 2,3701. As in the Estimates there was, a vote on account for Demerara, he wished to ask whether the sum he had mentioned was considered ap plicable to general purposes, or whether it had been carried to the Privy Purse ? Other sums appeared to have been received from the Bahamas, Dominica, and Prince Edward's Island. For each of these places a vote was to be proposed, and there fore it was not unreasonable to ask in what way the sums re ceivpd from them were to be disposed of. For the year ending in January, 1822, there was a surplus revenue of 3,6851. In the last reign 124,0001. had passed into the hands of the Sove reign from this source, without the knowledge of Parliament. This he held to be unconstitutional. He now wished to know' • if the surplus revenue'of .Gibraltar was to be applied to the general service of the nation." Part of it was appropriated to the payment of the widows of deceased officers. The amount thus employed was 1,5621. He hoped the remaining 2,1231. would be carried to the account of the nation. Under the head of Admiralty Droits ' there appeared a s um o f 162,8021. He wished to ask a similar question with respect to this. There was also a sum of 47,0001. respecting which he wished for some information. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, by Act of Parliament, every year the sums received from the Colonies were to be laid before that I louse, as also the services to which they were applied, under the proper heads. The accounts would be found to contain a great !lumber of claims on the sums received, which consequently could not be regarded as at the disposal of the Crown. From Demerara, there were many claims for colonial services, and on the Droits of Admiralty there were many claims for the captors and others. When the balances available for the Crown or for the Treasury could be ascertained, they would be laid before Parliament. Mr. HUME wished to know if they would be at the disposal of the Crown ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said they would be applied by the Crown, but in pursuance of the ad vice of Ministers, and if they w e re imp ro p er l y di spose d o f , Ministers would be liable to bear the blame. The Ilouse then resolved into a Committee. Mr. WARD declined going into detail 'on the present occa sion. He should content himself with putting a Resolution into the hands of the Chairman. He moved, For the Extraordinaries of the Ordnance Office, for 1822, (deducting 44,0001. for the presumed sale of Old Stores), 248,7441. Mr. HUME said that no return was made in pursuance of the motion he had made, except in the case of Demerara.—He was therefore to take that as the fair Specimen of the current ex pences for works in the Colonies. The expenses were under the head of repairs, which were estimated by Gen. Mann. By-the bye, he would be glad to know how Gen. Mann, who resided in this country,' could estimate the'expenses of repairs in the Colonies ? Ile (Mr. 1-1.) thought the Colonial revenue should be sufficient for. the Colonial expenses. In one of the items which constituted the vote before the Committee, he observed' under the head of repairs for Demerara and Berbice, a sum claimed to the amount of 11,8791. Of that sum 10,0(101. was claimed for repairing the dam or sea bank at Demerara. [The Hon. Gent. then read extracts from the Report of General Mann as to the necessity of repairing that dam.] lie would contend that the bank being entirely for the convenience of the town of Demerara, the money requir e d f or it s re pairs should be p a id by the Colony. The sum required to finish that work was estimated at 23,2881., and he certainly would object to pay any portion of that sum while the Colony was more interested in the work than this country. The Colony had, besides, an Assembly of representatives of merchants, who voted the necessary t axes i n t h e same manner in which' that House voted money ; and if the works were necessary, why did not that Legislative Assembly provide the money for them ? He knew there was a sum of 60,0001. or 70,0001. remitted by the Colony to be invested in the fends in Great Britain for public uses. It was said that sum was for a security for their paper cur rency. But he saw no reason why a portion of that money should not be taken to repair the dam, if it was so necessary, as was re ported by Gen. Mann. The Hon. Gentleman then questioned the policy of the exchange made by this country respecting Demerara and Berbice, and said it was extremely unfortunate, as they did not pay for themselves. He thought the salaries to the different officers in the Colonies extravagantly high. The Governor of Demerara had from 5,0001. to 6,5001. a-year.— The Secretary and Deputy drew no less than 8,0001. annually. If those salaries were reduced to a fitting scale, the surplus would be sufficient to discharge all the expenses of every kind in the Colonies. The money sent by the Colony to this coun try ought to be applied before Great Britain could be called on to vote away 10,0001. It might be said the Colony would repay that sum at a future period. But if the sum was once voted, it would be no easy matter to get it back. He believed he had made a case strong enough to satisfy the Committee that the item of 10,0001. for repairs of Demerara should be left out. He would entreat the attention of the House to the charge - of 3,0631. for the lonian Isles. That charge ought not to have been made. When his Majesty became Pro tector of the lonian Isles, it was under the express stipu lation that there would not be any expense to Great Britain until the army would exceed three thousand men. He there fore would move, that, in addition to the 10,0001. for Deme rara, the 3,0631. for the lonian Isles also should be left out. He could not see the necessity at present for keeping up the establishments for. the manufacture of gunpowder in Fever sham and Waltham Abbey. By the admission of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, they had more gunpowder on hand than could be required for twenty-five years. Those establishments ought therefore to be reduced, and no more gunpowder should be manufactured until there appeared some necessity for Ja e :— He also observed a curious charn included in the note before the Committee. It was 3,200 r. for making cuirasses for the Blues. He adverted to that as an instance of the manner in which the public money was thrown away by the Government manufacturing themselves, instead of being supplied by con tract with some of the many competitors who would offer them selves. He thought the system by contract far preferable to the holding of factories of their own ; there was so much more economy observed in private establishments. He would not make any observation on Barbadoes, as an Hon. Friend of his intended to propose a reduction of the suns required for that colony. lie would move, therefore, that the sum proposed should be reduced by 13,0631., viz. 10,0001. for Demerara, and 3,0631. for the lonian Islands. On the amendment being put from the Chair, Mr. WILMOT said, he would come to the first item ob jected to by the Hori. Gentleman (Mr. Hume). That was the dam at Demerara. That work was, he Wilmot) con tended, necessary, not only to protect the ordnance stores, hut also to protect the town itself. Much of that expence, cer tainly, should be done by the colony. In that he concurred with the Honourable Gentleman. The sum required was only an item on account, and was expected to be paid back by the colony. It was a matter of necessity to advance the money, as the works were begun. The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Hume) overstated the salaries of Governor and Secretary, &c. He would not follow the Honourable Gentleman in his ob servations on the policy,of those relations between Great Britain and the Colonies. He would positively state that the sum proposed to be advanced was to be paid by the Colony. He, would deny the construction put by the Honourable Gentleman on the treaty between his Majesty and the lonian Isles. The spirit of the treaty was very different from the Hon. Gentleman's construction of it. It said that they were to defray their own expences as far as they were able. He hoped the Committee would not be carried away by the assertions of the Hon. Gentleman, as he (Mr. Wilmot) would pledge himself to shew that the treaty could not bear the con struction attempted to be put on it. Mr. BENNET said, if he understood the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wilmot) right, in saying that the colony would repay the sum proposed to be granted to them, he would not say a word against it. He would, however, say, that the colony would never be able to repay it while its Government was administer ed on the present system. Mr. WILMOT again said that th e mone y wou ld b e repa id . Colonel DAVIES objected to the expence of 30001. con nected with the office of Inspector of Militia of the lonian Isles. Mr. WARD said that the establishments at Feversham and Waltham Abbey were most useful. The powder underwent certain processes of stoving and restoving, which was necessary , for its preservation. Although they had reduced these esta blishments, they could not put them down entirely. With re spect to the opinion of. the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) that it would be better to be supplied by contract than have manu factories of their own, he (Mr. Ward) thought that was a very doubtful question. Sir W. 'CQINIGRE'VE said that the stock of gunpowder now on hand was 300,000 barrels, which could be kept in a perfect state as long as these mills were worked. if sold, they would only produce 20s. per barrel, whereas if a war should break out, and Government were compelled to buy by public con tract, they would have to pay at the rate of 61. 10s. Thus, at the commence lent of war, the country would be obliged to dis burse a million and a half, and the difference betwixt the two courses would be 1,300,0001. The expence of keeping the gun powder would only be equal to the purchase in 130 years, rather a longer period than he supposed the Hon. Member expected us to remain at peace. Even if they calculated the accumula tion of the expense at compound interest it would be 11 years before it amounted to the 1,300,0001. Ile thought there could be no question of the policy of retaining these manufactories. Mr. HUME explained, and after a tew conversational obser vations his amendment was withdrawn. Mr. CREEVEY said that the Government had in the case of Demerara admitted the principle that Colonies should contri bute to their own military expences. What would be said, then, in the case of Barbadoes, where there was a fund of4oool. a year created for that purpose, and yet that island did not pay for repairing its own fortifications ? Instead of being applied to its proper and intended object, this fund was given to the pensioners of the country. lie was really ashamed to press this subject so often, but he was sure that he should succeed at last even in that degraded assembly.—(Cries of " Order !) He might be called to order—he would die for it, but it was a degraded assembly while it supported such a vote.—(The Hon. Member was called to order by the Chairman, and from many parts of the House.)—He concluded by moving the reduction of the sum for the fortifications in the Island of Barbadoes. Mr. WILMOT contended, that the Government had not called upon the Colony of Demerara to bear a share in its mili tary expences ; therefore there had been no recognition of such a principle.as that which formed the basis of the Hon. Mem ber's argument. He thought the lion. Gentleman would do well to be more perfect in his geography before he discussed such topics, and not talk of the insular situation of Demerara. With regard to the four and a half per cent. duties granted by the House of Assembly at Barbadoes, they were given to the Crown in return for certain concessions and privileges at that time conferred upon the Island. This was distinctly stated in the Colonial Act of 1663, and immediately after that Act passed the duties were levied, but not applied to the repair of fortifications, which were paid for by a direct tax. In the Acts of other islands they would find the same prin ciples regulating the grants ; and these analogies materially , strengthened the conclusion that this fund was a remune ration given to the Crown for certain privileges granted out of the Royal Prerogative, and which no other power could confer. Therefore, it was, that even immediately af terwards, it was not claimed for the service of the island. Mr/CREEVEY ridiculed the idea of arguing from ana logy upon an Act of Parliament. The had nothing to do with other. Acts when they had the specific one before them. The only defence of the case was the practice of the last fifty years, that was the pensioners' title—fifty years of stealing and swind ling. Ile then read the Acts, and contended that ,the fund ought to be appropriated to the f,rtification of the Island. Mr. WILMOT said the Hon. Gentleman had entirely mis represented the argument he had used, by stating, with that delicacy and refinement of expression so peculiarly his own, that he defended the approbation of the fund in question upon the practice of fifty years of stealing and swindling. He dis tinctly deprecated supporting his case by the practise of past time, when he said that immediately after the passing of the Act, the expenses of fortifications were paid by a direct tax. Mr. BRIGHT expressed his astonishment at hearing the Colonies spoken of, as they had been lately, as if they were not worth preserving. He had always considered them as being amongst the greatest supports of our system. He should vote for the sums proposed for their support. Mr. BERNAL said, the object of his Hon. Friend was, not to refuse the sums necessary to support the island of Barba does, but to see that those sums were taken from a proper source. Ile contended that the four and a half per cent. fund ought to be applied to the expenses of the Island. Mr. BRIGHT understood the amendment to propose taking off 4,0001. for the sum to be granted for the expenses of the Island. That was the only result to which it could lead. Mr. CREEVE I/ explained. Mr..3IARRYATT contended that it would be very hard on the Colony of Barbadoes, because we had taken from them the fund which belonged to them, to call upon them to provide a fresh fund for the purposes'of the Colony. If a motion were to be brought forward on the subject of the misapplication of the Four and Half per Cent. Fund it should have Ins support ; but there was not a shadow of justice in the present instance in re fusing to the Colony the supplies necessary for its defence. Mr. P. MOORE warmly contended that his Honourable Friend the Member for Appleby had made good his position. Mr. WILLIAMS was unequivocally of opinion that the works of the Island of Barbadoes ought to be kept in repair out of the Four and Half per Cents., a n d not out of the pockets of the people of England. The Committee then divided. For the Amendment 39 Against it - 81 Majority - -42 The original Resolution was then put and agreed to. The next Resolution was, that a sum not exceeding 96,6391 be granted to defray the Ordnance expences for Ireland. Mr. HUME expressed his satisfaction at finding that consi derable reductions had taken place in this office ; he therefore should make no opposition to the present Estimate ; but he was satisfied that still further reductions might be made in the course of next year. The Resolution was agreed to. The next was that a sum not exceeding 45,5521. should be granted to defray the charges of retired allowances, superannua tions and widows' pensions in the Ordnance Department. Mr. HUAIE said, that there were some names on th e Su perannuation List whose claims he was anxious to be informed of. He had objected last year to one person who was put on the Half-pay List after only three years service, contrary to the Act of Parliament. He had also complained, that in the ap pointment of 67 new officers, so little regard was had to the Half-pay List, upon which there were many persons anxious to be placed on full pay. The neglect of this principle was a manifest extravagance on the part of the Government. The Honourable Member then alluded to the high rate of super annuation adopted in many instances. In one case, an officer, whose salary was but 4001 a year in 1796, had retired on a superannuation of 1,5001. ; and though he was unwilling to mention names, he would state to the Honourable Secretary the case of a female who received a pension as the daughter of an officer, though she was heiress to a fortune of 10,0001. a year. He should submit no motion on the subject, but he thought that a considerable saving might be made by striking off the names of those who-were not intitled to pensions and superannuation s. Dlr. R. WARD disclaimed all knowledge of the case last mentioned, and expressed much pleasure at finding that the Hon. Gentleman was obliged to confine himself to cases five or six years old, instead of producing any new instances. lie could assure the lion. Member and the Committee, that the principle upon which the Ordnance now acted was, to allow two . years' pay to those who w e r e di sm i sse d before five years' service, and to place those only on the half-pay who had served ten years and upwards. Mr. MABERLY contended that an important saving might be-made by transferring efficient officers from the halt-pay to full pay, whenever there was a necessity for making any new appointment. _ _ After a few words from Mr. WARD, Mr. W. SMITH, and Sir U. Bunort, the Resolution was agreed to. The next was that a sum not exceeding 6,0001. should be granted to defray the charges of superannuations, pensions, &c. connected with the Office of Ordnance for Ireland, which was agreed to. The House having resumed, the Report was ordered to be brought up tq-morrow. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a QUARTER PAST TWELVE. LIST OF THE MINORITY WHO VOTED FOR REJECTING THE VOTE OF £4,670 FOR REPAIRS OF WORKS AT BARBADOES, FOR WHICH THE 4A PER CENT. DUTIES WERE GRANTED, BUT HAVE BEEN MISAPPLIED. Allen, J. H. Hume, J. Rickford, Wm. Belgrave, Vise. Hobhouse, J. C. ' Ridley, Sir N. W Bennet, Hon. H. G. James, W. Rice, T. S. Blake, Sir F. Jervoise, G. P. Smith, W. Boughey, Sir J. F. Lushington, br. Scott, J. Bernal, Ralph Leycester, R. Whitbread, W. H. Burdett, Sir F. Moore, Peter Whitbread, S. C. Barrett, S. B. M. Maberly,. J. Wilson, Sir R. Dickinson, W. Martin, John Williams, W. Davies, Colonel Pym, F. Wood, Alderman Fergusson, SirR.C. Palmer, C. F. Griffith, J. W. Rumbold, C. E. Gurney, R. H. Ricardo, D. Haldimand, W. Robinson, Sir G. TELLER. Creevey, T. TRANSPORTATION.—Before the restoration of CHARLES 11. transportation, as a punishment, was unknown in England ; but after that time, persons found guilty of offences entitled to the benefit of clergy, and sentenced to be imprisoned, were transported to the British settlements in North America. They were not, however, sent away as per petual slaves, but bound by indentures for seven years ; and for the last three years they received wages, in order that a fund might be provided, to give them a fair chance of future success in life. When the American Revolution prevented the further transportation of convicts to that country, in 177.5, the system of confining prisoners to hard labour on board the Hulks and Houses of Correction was adopted, until the discovery of New South Wales by Captain Cook, in 1776 and 1777, opened a new field for transportation ; the coast of Africa having been previously explored in vain, f,"2 a fit situation for a colony of criminals. The first embarkation to this new colony was Made in February, 1787, and consisted of 264 convicts ; the first settlement was made at Sidney ; and another has since been formed in the adjacent hdand of Van Dieman's Land. So prolific has this country been in crime, that in a period of less than 30 years, the colony at Botany Bay amounts to upwards of twenty thousand persons, one half of whom are convicts. So large an assemblage of men and women, many of whom are the most desperate ch arac t ers , are with difficulty kept in order; but in order to restrain their irregularities, punishments of a summary kind are frequently inflicted. Of these, the most severe, next to that of death, is transportation to the Coal River, which is ordered usually by the Judge advocate, or a bench of magistrates, for a term of years or for life, as the enormity of the offence may require. Convicts dread this mode of punishment very much, because they are here compelled to work in chains from sun-rise to sun-set, and are subject also to other restrictions of a highly penal descrip tion. The rigour of this sentence is, however, frequently relaxed in degree, as the criminal shows signs of amendment ; and in very few cases is it found necessary to subject any of the convicts to a repetition of that sentence. THE COLONIES. CANADA. [Extracts from a private Letter.] MONTREAL, 30TH JANUARY, 1822.—" The present dull' ness of trade affording me some leisure, 1 am desirous of ing your attention to the present crisis in the Commercial and Political affairs of this Colony. You are aware of the extract' dinary distress experienced in the Canadian Trade on =one' of our grain and flour being shut out from your corn-marl by your corn-laws ; and that Petitions have been forwarded t ° your Legislature by the towns, counties, and Legislatures of both Provinces. The arguments in those Petitions are °' strong, that I hope andtrust that, though the LANDED interest s may maintain their monopoly against Aliens, they will not be abl e to do so against British Subjects in the Colonies, who actualif have never been able to export more provisions than would fee l the manufacturers of the goods taken always and exclusiveif from Great Britain and Ireland in payment. The relaxation prayed for would be no doubt essentially useful to th e eon' merce and mutual connection of the two Countries ; but exist' ing evils, deeply seated in the political and moral constitution of Canadian Society, require, in my humble opinion, a deeisilt and speedy interference on the part of the British Government' for the purpose of REUNITING the two Provinces. It is iii' deed greatly to be lamented that the British Legislatuee bestowed so little attention on the affhirs of the Canadas. Whet the present constitution and division of the Province were in th e year 1791 debated in the British Parliament, the Ministry and their majorities in BOTH HOUSES openly asserted the right 0 4 the intention of that Imperial Legislature to • sup'eantend th e great, experiment then made in Colonial legislation, and actor' ding to its progress and results, to regulate ULTERIOR Inca' sures for the good of the Colonists and the genefal interests d the empire. But, during thirty years, no interference, ting good information as to the internal situation of these Pre' vinces, has taken place : And it is very possible that the Bri" tish Parliament has still to learn that the present Constitution and DIVISION of the Province of Quebec have not produced the benefits which were expected from it,—that they have pee' duced a state of hostile jealousy, Commercial and Political, be" tween the two Provinces, cherishing and strengthening foreign laws, manners, and language, in the Lower Pre;vince, destroy' ing every hope of future amalgamation, by aggravating and perpetuating the natural divisions of a mixed population. No r can I look forward to any interference on the part of the Impe' rial Legislature at this late period, without earnestly depreco' ting those HALF measures, or illusory expedients, which weak or vacillating Administrations adopt, to remove evils to a little distance, in order to serve their own temporal and narrow views of convenience and continuance in office' —For the only means, in my humble opinion, of retracing steps which have already conducted us to the brink of a Pre' cipice, exposing British laws, language, character, and th e future reputation of the British Government, to contempt, ca n be found in the speedy RE-UNION of the disjoined Provinces' combined with a law restraining the Crown from granting more lands, otherwise than on the English tenure of " free 0 4 common soccage," and to enable the present tenants, en rotfr" to commute the feudal rights of their Seigneurs for a valuable consideration. Such measures would likewise naturally tend to facilitate the execution of a neglected clause in the Quebec Act of 1774, which clearly prescribes the extension of Englis h laws and rules of procedure to the townships, and to all land' already granted or to be granted by his Majesty in free a° common soccage.—Nothing, indeed, but that extreme ing' ference and apathy as to the due enforcement of Colonial pone! and laws, which has characterised the British Parliament du" ing the thirty years last past, can account for the delay which has taken place in giving full and complete effect througho ut Canada to one of the few salutary provisions in the Act abve' mentioned ; for be it remembered that it has only been P r ' tially executed by the establishment of English law in Uppe r Canada. The eighth section of the Act of 1774 enacts, that 4 0 all matters of controversy, relative to property and civil righ t ', resort should be had to the laws of Canada as the rule of dcci' sion for the same. But the ninth section is as follows " Provided always, that nothing in this Act contained sha ll " extend, or be construed to extend, to any lands that hav e " been granted by his Majesty, or shall hereafter be grants " by his Majesty, his heirs and successors, to be holden in fre e " and common soccage."—The present state of affairs prevent s British Emigrants from settling in the Lower Province ; f °r the best of them fly from feudal tenures, French laws, 1 0 ' guage, and manners, and to seek an asylum in the Unite" States or Upper Canada, going some times 500 miles in.laue l from Montreal before they find rest for the soles of their fee And thus, at a distance from a market, they find that they ha ve only shifted the scene of difficulty by removing from Great Britain. Indeed, the only means of rendering' Canada a fi t asylum for British Emigrants, and a Colony destined to extend and perpetuate the English name and language, can be foun d in the measures above-mentioned. The prejudiced and French Canadian argument against such measures is, that the slightes t innovation affecting the laws, language, manners, and eustorc s of the Lower Province, would eventually transfer the whol e country to the Americans : this is the BUGBEAR which ha s been set up, and kept up, by the French Canadian Leaders' ; both Laymen and Clergymen, to frighten the British Govern' ment from any rational attempt to make this Colony a useful appendage to the Empire, or any thing else but a fbreign eon' try, filled with a population deformed with an aggravation and caricature of all the defects of the French character. But a° such fears ought to be entertained by any but a bad Govern' ment. For, if you cast your eye over the map of the North American Continent, and even restrict the Canadas to the St. Lawrence and its Parent Lakes as boundaries, you wil l perceive that they contain as much land as the European Cont'' tinent. This extraordinary extent of territory is one o f the strongest physical obstacles to an eventual connection and amid' gamation with the American States. Supposing even the Amer:' cans to perceive an interest in obtaining the occupation of th e Southern coast of the Gulf and the Southern bankof the St. Lair rence, that River and its Parent Lakes would still remain like those eternal boundaries which Nature and Providence appear to have established between great nations. The Americans, however , by their stupendous works of the Grand Canal, and the North' ern Canal, having connected Lake Erie, Lake Ontario, 0 6 Lake Champlain, with the lludson, no longer feel their Pre: vious anxiety fo r a commercial outlet by the St. Lawrence ; nor can they now v i ew i t as suc h a national object of interest or ambition. The sagacious Americans too, like our country" men, prefer Southern prospects ; and their tide of emigratio n has taken a most d ec id e d turn to the Southward and West ward, where Louisiana and Florida invite their surplus poPit lation to riot in the luxuries of warmer climates. I still, ho l " ever, trust that the British Government will act with prudence' and not secretly promote Indian hostility ; and if they do not, by a continu ance o f t h e most culpable neglect and mismana ge e ment, in Canada , destroy the partialities and attachments of NATIVE British Subjects, loyalists, and their , descendan t ' THIS COUNTRY will l ong rema i n a British Colony. If to nada be lost to the B r iti s h E mp i re, b e f ore i t is strong enougk_. a assume a station as an i n d epen d ent state, though more inc iw`d t t h o a o t p th po e se lo th ss a w n ill. to a j r?s in e with the eUpneirvtederSsetacotesn,dulcta,mancond shore;vine sighted policy, of the B r i t i s h G overnment an d i ts C o l on ial o ', firers, and from no other cause whatever."