The Sun. — London, England, 1801-04-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLMM ElvT; HOUSE OF PEEIeS, WEDNESDAY, APRIL I. The several Bills before the House were forward ed in their respeEtive Stages. Some private business was disposed of, after whict? their Lordships adjourned till to-morrow, when we understand a Commission takes pl*e for declaring the Royal Assent to certain Bills. HOUSE OF COMMONS, WEDNESDAY, APRIL I. .. The Millers Indemnity Bill was read a third time and passed. • The Report of the Committee of Supply for Ire land being brought up, 7 Sir JOHN PARNELL said, that he observed that some of the Charges which had heretofore been voted annually, were now proposed to be made per manent, which he thought ought not to be done un til they bad been investigated in a - Committee. Mr. CORRY said, that the Charges to which the Right Hon. Baronet alluded, had a:ways been voted during the Adniinistration of that Right Hon. Baro. net, and consequently, he' could have no doubt of their propriety. The whole of them did not. • • amount to above 60001. - a year pad, therefore, he thought it would be better to. vote them at once, than to go through such a detail of.minute Sums every year, especially as the nature of them were per fall)! well known, and they had been regularly voted almost time out of mind. Sir Jour/ PARN6LL explained. Mr. HosHous and Mr. SHERIDAN expressed their disapprobation of treating this as trifling, be cause the sum was small, as the principle was the same, whatever the sum was. The Resolutions were then agreed to. • EGYPT. • • Lord H4WKESBURY presented several Papers re - speCting Egypt, which were ordered to be printed. IRISH BUDGET. - , Mr. CORRY moved the Order of the Day for ring-into a committee of Ways and Means, and that the Accounts presented by_Mr. WEATHERALL, should be referred to the said Committee. The Haase then resolved itself into a C6m_ .. mittee of Ways and Means, Mr. BRAGG! in the Chair. Mr. CORRY said, that in discharging ~the duty .which it had fallen to his lot to perform,- it would 'be his objea to take up as little of the time of the Committee as possible. If, however, there were any parts in his statements which the Committee or any Gentleman might wish. to have explained, he . would give it with the greatest pleasure. It might (se expected before he entered into the 'statement of the charges upon Ireland, that he should say a few • words about the Finances, of that Country. In , doing So, however, he should endeavour to give the Committee as little trouble as possible ; he should begin by stating thicharges which Ireland would have to bear separately from Great Britain, ibtu her joint expences in consequence of the Union, and then he 'should state. the Ways ,and which he meant to'cover the Supplies. It must be in the recolleetion of every Centleman who heard him, that the principle of the Union, which in his opinion had been so much to the interest of both Countries, agreed upon war, a principle of com plete and entire Union of the Governrraents of the two Countries.—As far as respeaed.atbe Govern ments that principle had been comAttly carried into effea.—lt was no longer an Union of two Crowns, it was an union of the Sovereignty, But owing to some circumstances subsisting antecedent to_the Union, it became necessary , for a short time, to administer the Finances of the two Countries in a separate manner, And not in that perfe& • Unity which it was the °hied of the great measure to' which he had alluded, to deft. As, therefore, at present the Finances of the two Countries were sepa ' rate, it would be necessary for him to state them in two points of view; both as they affeEted Ireland separately, and in . conjunaion with Great Britain. He would now proceed to state the separate Charges-,. the first Of . which was the Interest of the Na , tional Debt, which formed thegreat Article of the . Separate Charge upon Ireland,. as the Military Ex pence formed almost, the whole of her joint Charge. With.respea to ,the Debt of Ireland, . it would ap. ear to cars accustomed to the Millions of this Lountry, to amount only to a .small Sum ; it was at //resent no more than 36,006,0001. It was, howe ver, a burthen of great importance to that Coon , - try, and which had increased most rapidly during' the present war. The prOportion ,of the Debt of Ireland, at the commencement, of the war, , was to the Debt at present, in the proportion of r to 14. I-Icr Debt at that 'period was to that of England, as r to r 00, but now the propOrtion of the Debt of Ireland was to that England,' as s to tut a large .part• of the Debi of ,Ireland was in 5 per ,Cents. and irthey were reduced to 3 per a , Cents. in which , a great part of the, Debt of FAgland colisisted,.. and if the Irish Debt was all reduced t 0.3 per Cents. • thenits prdportion would be'as t to 'EI to the Permanent Debt of England.— He mentioned this to shew, that if in the prosecu , lion of the arduous contest in which we were now engaged, Great Britain had incurred great burrhens, Ireland had also increased her's, in a : very great de gree She had made very great fioancial,, and from the unfortunate situation in which . she had been ,placed,' great military exertions, also, without . murmuring ; and he trusted from the improvement in het-situation, which he doubted not would be the result of the Union, she would be . enabled to bear them withoutdlificulty.".The interest upon this Debt amounted ro a larger sun) than those who were only accumstomed to 3 per Cents.. would at first suppose ; it amounted to 1,696,D001. In • this statement, he did not include the Taxes which it would be necessary, to lay on in, consequence of the Loan for the Service of the present year. Of this Debt Ireland had been under the necessity • of borrowing so large a sum in : England, that the interest which she paid to this Country amounted nearly to One Million. , The Sinking Fund of . Ireland, which. was included ._the : sum he had before mentioned of 1,695,00 e was - rounded upon the same Principle as that of this Country,. which had been introduced by a Right; Hon. Gentleman _lately at the head of die Finance, and which , had been attended with such beneficial effcas. The original Sinking Fund of Ireland • was adopted in Ireland, - under the patronage of a Right Hon. Friend of his, and it then amounted to no more than toditioc:,l; a-ye4ira-j---It bore a ptoportion to the Debt - of that Country oft to 70; whereas the Sinking Fund . of. England, at its .Establishment, bore a pro portion to the Debt.of tto 230. Since the ESta:: blishment of the Sinking Fund in Ireland, it had raid off alio'crt'a Million of the Debt,. and it now amounted to 1.86,0001. a year. He would say no more it presOit,4on thii part of the:subjett.-- The next , of the Separate Charge of Ireland, was the Sum of 622,0°61. for the Corn- . pensation for Boroughs, which was all that it was thought desirable to raise in one year. The next . item was too,oool. for the improvement of the In land Navigatnin ; these three Sums together, made something : more than 2,400,0001. which formed the Separate - Charge which was to be provided for by Ireland. With res'pett to the proportion of the Joint Charge which Ireland was to bear, a very large part of it, viz. +,150,0001. was for the Mi.. litary Expences. The other part of the Joint Charge, which was for Civil purposes, amounted to above 600,0601. making together something snore than 4,700 0001. exclusiVe of 3 00 , 0001 . for the Vote-of Credit. This, added to the Sum which he had stated as necessary for the Separate Charge of Ireland, would make the whole amount of the Sup plies necessary to be provided' by Ireland for the present year, above,. 7, too,oool. He would now state the Ways and Means by which he proposed to cover this Chaige. It was cusiomary, in the Parlia ment oflreland, previous to the Union, to grant the Supplies from the . 25th of March in one year, to the 2s t h March, in. the next year. Last year the same plan was adhered ..to, and the Supplies were granted to the usual period, and provision was made accordingly. But in consequence of the Ad of Union, the joint charges between the two Countries commenced from the ist of Jan. 18ot, and Consequently the Supplies from that period. to the 25th of March, 'must be thrown into the joint estimate._ It would, there fore, he necessary to disappropriate the balances re... maining in, the. Treasury• of Ireland for the period he had mentioned, in order to make them applica ble to the current Service of the present year. The amount of the balances in the Treasury 'of Ireland, on the Ist of Jan. iBot, amounted to 1,697,0001. besides Soo,oool. the balance of the Loans.— In addition to those, were to be .taken into con; sideration the Revenues of the Country, which con sisted of the same leading articles as those of Great Britain, viz. in Port Duties, or in other words, in Customs, which,' in Jrcland, were 'termed Port... Duties, in the Inland Duties, in the Assessed Taxes, and in the Revenue arising from the Post-Office. The Income arising from the Port Duties amounted to' about 2,500,0001. from Stamps about 150,0001. and from the Post-Office only about 20,0°01. after defraying the charge of collating. In estimating the Revenues of the current 'year, he should form his calculation upon the three quarters of the year up to Christmas last ; they amounted then to .1. 0 , r.t..1 ..,144 0,0,4 r whole produce at 2,400,0001. 7 , He begged leave here to remark,' thatin the Revenue received in the three quarters upon which he was calculating; there was not included any produce of the duty upon Malt. The reason of this must be obvious to the CoMmittee ; the distress of the Country was so great, that it became necessary to stop the making , of Malt. It was true that it was 'permitted for a short time in the month of 01ober, but those who knew the mode in which the amount of these Du ties were returned, must know that.tbe Officer did not make his return until a month after it was tol letled, and that a month's time, was given for, its paymen4 consequently the Duties which arose during the short period that it was allowed to make Malt, did not come into the Treasury until after Christmas, and consequently' did not come within the three quarters upon which he had estimated. He would take the produce of this Duty at zoo,oool. which would make the Revenue amount to about 2,600,0001. It had been usual; in Ireland, to have one or two Lottericsio the course of the year, and as he saw no objedion to it, he should propose on for the present year, the produce of which he should. take at t so,oool. The sums. applicable to the Set vicewould then be s, 47,0001. of the present* year, Balance in the "ircisuiy ,C, ,697,000 Balance of the two I.oans - - - Ro*,eoo Estimated Revenue - . - 2,400,000 Loitery - - Making altogether . - . 5 ,247,0 Froth this Sum there was to be a dedution of 230,0001. for 'the Loyalists - , which had not yet been paid, and which it was necessary to pay as soon' as possible,. in, order to enable those unfortunate persons to rebuild their houses, and to restore the industry of the Country. There was also a Sum of 70,0001; to be deductedi paid by Ireland to her Forces in the Garrisons of Great Britain, which would leave the Sum remaining applicable to the Service of the year, 4,94.7,0001. There was •an. other Sum which he had to mention, though it did not form a part of the Charge or Expenditure of the present year, and that was about half a Million of Exchequer Bills, or Treasury Bills, as .they were cijled in Ireland, because they were -calculated in the Debt which he had stated, and provided for ,in the interest. They -were, therefore, no charge upon the Public this year, except that, as they were issued ,at 5 per Cent. and the. money borrowed to pay them was at rather more than 5 per Cent. It was also to he . ,ipberyed, that as long as they re mained ExchNuerc,l4lls, there was . not the expence of I per Cent,. for, the Sinking Fund, which would be necessary: as soon as. they, were funded ; but with the' exception ,of this sum, which did not. amount to above 10,0001. they constituted no part of the charge of the present year. The Ways and Means being therefore Unequal to the- supply of the year, it became necessary to borrow the sum of 2,500,0001. The Committee would now perceive the manner in which lie proposed to cover the Supplies of the year. fie should proceed to state the new Taxes; and in this part of the subjeCt be should occupy as little of the time of the Committee as voluble. The urn neCeSSary .. to DM prOVIa(O .a 5 tne interest and Charge, of the Debt, including the t per Cent. for the Sinking Fund; ivould amount - to r043,0001T but in providing the Taxes it would be necessary to take intb• consideration three other items.— In consequence of. the Union there were. to be no Duties upon-the Exports and Imports from either Country, and, in the arrangement of the Duties, there liould• be a defivierrer.onmsboopoomermatelis of 6o t oool. and that sum it woulebe necessary Co makeup. There was another small sum which he hadJoinention, and iri -Com? mittee would eoncur with, him in'-=opinion. -It was 7sPitil . respeEt!to a Tax upon Absentees, which was •ivqy, , ,sniall in its amount, -notexceeding.SooOf. but lis-,(4en-tieitwri : , were now bound in duty to attend a certain pact of the .year in - this Country it would be absurd to Make them- liable to a Tax for that which they did in discharge of their duty. It was ',therefore intended to abandon - that Tax. -H Another article by which the Revenue of Ireland would be diminished - was, the dtity on Hops, which it was necessary to-reduce to the same amount that .it .was in this Country. This would create a de-' ficiency of ' 75,0001. . All these sums, together would . make the sum necessary to be*provided for by Taxes 263,0001. In seleaipg the new Taxes, it was natural for him to look to those of this Country, and to rely upon the great eit perience and authority of the-Right Hon. Gentle man by whom they were proposed... It was. ' besides desirable, that the Taxes should be s Upon the shrine Articles, if not to the same amount in the two Countries, unless there was, some local . reason which rendered it _improper. ,The first article, therefore, he should have to mention, Would be that Of Sugiii. —ln. point of :fart, there was no _choice . upon . this subjett ; because, in consequence of the Colonial -- Compad entered, into between the two COuntri6 in the year 1780,, it was stipulated that all articles should come to Irelandirom the Colonies . subjed . to the same Duties that they *came 'to England, therefore when the Duties, were increased in Eng land they were increased in Ireland, and when they were diminished ' in England ,they were. also dimi nished in Ireland. The. Duty he should propose 'Was -as..,p(ir hill:tired weight, and s taking the aver a ge quantity t of,4 - ?liar consumed it? Ireland in the cduirst of three years last past, he should estimate the'Re: . venue arising from it at 24,0001. The next was an article on which be trusted the Committee wtsiitti pardon him if he occupied their attemion - for a - few moments, while he stated the 'difference which sub sisted between the Mode of collecting the De y - Yn this Country and in Ireland. The Duty - vas paid according to• the quality of the Tea, viz..biackjea of as. a pound paid a Duty of 51d. and green tea or -7d. a . pound ; the Duty increased upon eery 6d. increase in the priCe of a pound of tea; the ef fed of this was, that the Duty only attached when _there was an increase' of 6d. in the pound ; he should now propose .to make the duty operate according. to the regular and gradual increase of the price'. This alteration, with the Duty, would make. the whole amount to about :3 lr cent. making the increase not more than :6 or 8 per cent., The duty even now with this increase would be lower than it was in England. The next ,source co which he lOoked for A n increase of-Income was Lim o nt i l ae c t r ip t frank in Ireland had been, in consequence of the Union, diminished by two-thirds, exclusive. of the Peers ;. and those WllO were entitled to fratirm - uk necessarily pass a considerable part of their' tithe let this Country—But .he did not thinlc . he should - lie' • justinediti looking . fora greater sum-in addition to the present revenue of the Post-OttEe than soco~. The next article was an 'idditiorial. 'Duty uptin Stamps, upon liotes, Bills of Exchange , Receipts, Bonds (far the, payment of mciney, not for • the performance- of Cuntrads), and. Policies 'of 'mut ance. These were 'nearly the ,same articles - which . were the - oojeas of taxation in thi, Country, *i:h the exception' of Deeds, upon which it was not his intention to ptopose a Duty. It was not so easy to estimate the' produce of this Tax in _lreland- as it would be in gngland, from the different regulation with respea to Stamps and the (fiffeient mode of keeping their aCcoUnts. He could not, .therefore, venture to state, with any -.cerrainty, what the amount of the Tax would be, but he did. not think, it could. produee„more than -0001. He haalsolo PropOse, , a Ta?c upon Policies of Insurance -whith did hitherto not exist before in Irel an d. ',The, liPtler- Writers of this Country were afraid, upon the increase in theStampputies, thatpersims would be induced to go over. to Ireland, and open Offices, there .But as there was little, Insurance in Ireland, Most of it being done in England, that Tax upon Policies of Insurance' would not injure the Trade of' Ireland, and it' would only prevent them from going to Ire land, in order to evade this Tax in this Country.—:-; There was another article which lie.had to mention, and to which he begged the particaar attention of the Committee, he meant Coals. He begged to , 'deprecate most earnestly, beingmisuhderstood upon this subjea,becanse any misconception might mate conslntrand, 'alarm. In consequence of the Union no Diity . could be levied upon the prodUce of either Country :going to the other. Heretofore there ve,as a duty in,.rhis. Country , upon Coals going to Ireland of about loci. per ton,,producing a Re_ '. venue of about r 7,0001. a ygar.—This duty could not now be collated in England, and; tbefefore;• it was proposed'to collect it in, Ireland.; but.iie li t yftd • no mistake could arise upon the ,übjeZli it was not 'intended to lay any additional -burthen upon Ire: He•was. anxious iliac no . al a rm be; created either among the Collier s of this Country oirthe -Manufaaurers of Ireland, for there would he no increase in duty, it was merely intended to collea'a duty„y i llich bad been raised in this Country; ip 'lre land, and 'if the - Coal Ttacter in. Ireland' shotild attempt to make This a initex.i 'to 'raise the price of tlie,..articie, it would. be iinpoible „for him to' ayoid,detedion, and that disgrace wllich would be: . long to . suclidiShonesty: Haring said this flinch to prevent the possibility of being misunderstood upon this point; he should propose a cipty upon Coils of tod.‘a ton, which wbuld - pr'oduce the same sum in that Country, that the duty produced in this Country while it ixisted. Thtse-sums taken altogether rt , ,,, !t - e about lt would lie. -necessary for . ,"nrm to mention one other item. The Committee wf,uld recol: lea that, 'in the observations he had irac e , he had' Lot £C n ICI A n t hi Le Revenue for three.qearters of a year, upon which h e had founded his calculation, the Distilleries - were not included ; .because in consequence - of the pros_ sure 'of the times they had been stopped. I n other years the ReVenue arising froth, th e .Di s _ tilleries had amounted to 400,0001, and some_ times near half a million. In the month of August 4, 16 , 6 , 06 , ‘ ,4, 6 4 664& g p iven to v diStil from qua- 4 _ in consequence of ere Itrrererrebtnatrf. able increase in the' importation of 'Sugar; but as -the-P4l4.l).44ii.s.aspOn_the Sugat ; were _taken off'., ma le a it was- allowed' to be distilled, the incorne-WaTiif course small, and the Excise duty upon the Spirits so distilled did not exceed 5.5 ,0001. There was great reason to 'eXped that the importation of Sugar this }'ear would be considerable ;• he- had, spoken -of Sugar before, but he wished tci-kcep;distina that which was for: the ordinary eousuMption, fro that which was for , the . purpose 'of distilling, The ordinary' consumption of Spirits in Irelarid in foriner years was between three and four mil.: lions of gallons ; but it was not possible that the ,consumption could be. as great this year as it. wa s uponfermerbecasions. The distress of the Coun -try must diminish the consumption, from the want of Means of purchasing. Besides, . the high price 'of - Spirits would give encouragement 'to smuggling, and to the distilling from Grain in the stills in the mountains. From all- these circumstances he was not disposed to take the consumption this year at more than - one-third of the usual quantity, and therefore he should- calculate. the. Duty of` ,) n the Sugar -imported for the purpose of diskilling at roo,oool. He should also have to.propose an txcise Duty Upon all Spirits which were so distilled, which would be' lower , than the Duty of last-year, and would amount to as. 3d. a gallon. This would, he - estimated, produce about r te,opol. These two sums, with the produce of the Taxes which he had before. mentioned, would more than Co. yer, as the CoMmittee• would perceive, the sum which it was necessary to raise by Taxes in the present year. He ' had . now, as shortly as: he ' was Able, Mani' the Supply and Ways, and Means of the year, but there was one.subjeCt upon which he wished to trespass for a . few -menhents longer on the attention ofthe Committee.- -It had been stated in -another place, in the dchate which took place resyeCting the Union, that it .would effed a sa\ing to Ireland.--.lt was not necessary upon this part" of the subje& to go into very minuteiraaions, but-he • thought it right to: inquire_ what was the saving to Ireland, and what`was - the additional burthen- which England incurred in consequenceof the Union ? 'the - fa& Was, that by the Union there would arise to Ireland a . saVing of just, One Million. It Would' be said, then, that if Ireland. did. not pay, Englind must—,and that if Ireland had a saving of One Mil. lion, England mist of course have.had all additional burthen to an equal: tunou-nt. - In point o f fad, oche only additional burthen which Great Brit a i n would have to. pay would be 369,0001, which :lornieti, the difference between the expence of Ireland,.which w a s 4,7 17,000 T. and her prOpOrtibriof the Joint ExPendi. Ha.o;asdrticshideaurldfaad.oraf. - mere; which amounted - to. 4 1 3 4 8 - cooal . . Nobody. could lament more sincerely than he (lid; the iifortunateme. cessity which existed, ofmaintaining so large a Force . in Ireland ; but - pon this. subje4, the Committee would, :Ile hoped, ` bear thin in tome ~„..,a „ ,,,„. a. When the Gentlemen . of Ireland::almost. unailimotisly. concurred in representirg the 'state. of that Country to be - stick,, as to require the' presence of a h eat Military - Force, he did most earnestly depre'eate .s th io a n t :f th ro t m e o gi e etn r:t i r rv y aals; ; c il ao :t ial t h , 4 4 w ei t e a ru c . Gentlemen of Ireland' had stated, thatForee.wal _ necessary for the - safety deprecated -the. idea of that statement conYitinf Ali real established charazicr of _the PropleOf_tre. •land. He; hoped and believed the: flouse had to much justice to 'mistake: the e 'tehiparary - phrenzj and delirium ofa fever, for the settle 4 arid peerna, nent disposition of the People. of Ireland. It..wa: undoubtedly► true, that' a large- portion. of then had- been deluded into aas of . violence, .I:i t i4 : h i . t trusted t h e y wou ld scon. be-reformed, and thatThej would be worthy 'to Le -.admitted into thu-b os b ao , and affedions ,of their felloWlubjetts in`.r ng l ar d, They w ou ld t h en , h e was , sere, feel a. grateful re. sollation. of the.exertions of Many of 414-Nr o bei tl - and Gentieinen Of this Coaelfffs , - Yillo, had so:nobly fled to their protection. ' 'He tfit*ted.that the Peeplc of Ireland _would, b}' their ititure condigi, , redeen their eharaCter, -which bad lately been injured b ) the rfils - Co'nduft ,of iepart of them, and which, he hoped, veuld not affeEi the minds either of the People of England, or Of Foreign Nations against them.— It would indeed be unjust, in deciding upon the character of a Nation, to draw general conclusions from imiticul ar f a d s ., The character of Irishmea 'was that of a liberal, brave, candid and generous ' People—With many errors undoubtedly, but not ad. dided -to any vice destrudive of the good ofSn 'ciety. • It would be injurious to the People of this Country es. well as of Ireland, to , judge of their nn . tural-charaaer from the se statere :nts. It would tend to prevent the English Capitalist from.going over c° Ireland, and increasing his own wealth, while hcadd. ed -to thv.. general riches and i n d ustr y of the Country. The . Iptdsped. held out in I ereland to th English Ca. t - pisaliswas highly, tempting, whether . he was in. dined to speculate in La n d or in Manufaaures.' If '. .he' wished to advefitureas a Farmer, Ireland he l d out advantages, superior to those he could find in this Country, or, perhaps, in 'any Country in Eu. . _rope,- 'riie climate rendered _it particularly favour.- -able fot agricultural pursuits, ant the improvement Of die Inland Navigation Would, he - had no doubt, speedily produce the .most beneficial. effects. He fell peculiar pleastrre-in looking -to r,lteland, .because ii afforded' the preseeet. bf becom?ng the. Granary 01 this Country, of preventing. a recurrence of that distress which we now felt, and of rendering us in. detiendelit. taf that fretarioes..Stipply ‘Vhich we nos draw, subjeft tel the caprice or enmity bf Foreign P`owers. Ireland, by furnishing a Supply-at our owl doOr; would m ;,;:c di. wholly independent of all the Powers, o.;ici - -ai the sam.r: time she would material') ' benef.i- her own..Nlafine. - He trusted,'therefor, tha' the People of this-Country would.ent be frighten. ' [Country, by state tenet which, though for the - p e r. ed 'from , embarking with , theitr• Capitals for that pose for which they were mention e d , chataaementioned, yet could no L be considered as describing the gen i al