The Sun. — London, England, 1822-03-26 00:00:00

Oe coureived that it would be, disagreeable to the country if come to the conclusion that then was still something due to his ehis individual were not to be remunerated for the sacrifices he services. Bad made. Ile had asked for a passport to his country, which The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that the difficulty was refused, belause at that time there was an effort making to which occurred to him was, that he wanted to know why Capt. restore its liberties. He knew that he might then return, be- Romeo had concealed that so large a sum of money was due cause hrinest men were at the head of affairs, at whose hands he to him until 1818 or 1819 ? He was quite sure, with the Noble should receive justice. Those men were determined to retrieve Lord, that the last thing which the Secretary of State would their country from its disgrace, and they would have done so be likel y to do, would be to apply the Alien Act to such a case had not the infernal hand of the Allies, who called themselves as the present. the Holy Alliance, been laid upon them. He trusted that the After a few words from Colonel DAVIES, the petition was . subject` of the interference of these powers would, during the ordered to be printed. Session, come regularly before the consideration of both Houses STATE OF IRELAND. of Parliamerit. If the present system of oppression continued SirT. NEWPORT gave notice, that o y, his n Monda the 22d of to be acted upon by the Alliance, Europe would soon be •plimg- April, he should move an Address to Majesty upon the ed into a war more bloody and cruel than had yet been known. present State of Ireland. ffe-contended that an honourable compensation had not been Sir J. NEWPORT moved for accounts of all sums advanc made to the petitioner. ' ed for public works in Ireland e by way of loan, during the last ' The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that with respect ten years ; specifying to what bodies or persons such sums were to the general observaticr.s in which the Hon. Member . who advanced—what sums were still due, and what interest, if any, spoke last had indulged, as he seemed to think it likely that had been paid.—Ordered. ORDNANCE RETURNS. there would' be another opportunity more fitting to ente r into SO comprehensiVe a discussion, he (the Noble Marquis) should Mr. It. WARD brought - up certain returns from the Ordnance not ateill enter a field, whose limits it was impossible to bring Office, which, after a few remarks upon the hasty manner in within a narrow. compass. He should, therefore, content him- which they had been obliged to be drawn up, were laid on the self with submitting the general reasons, which; upon a former table and ordered to be printed. occasion, as now, had influenced him in rejecting the claim of COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. Captain Romeo. This was not the first occasion that he had The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the been before the House, for this was his fourth petition upon Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into a Corn the same subject. Ile should not, therefore, feel it necessary mittee of Supply. too into all-the minute circumstances of the case, and parti- Mr. BERNAL was anxious, seeing the Hon. the Comptrol ouiarly as there - was not a distinct motion before the House. ler of the Navy in his place, to make inquiry as to state of He was glad to see that the character of a Police Officer when the working men in the Dock-yards, and whether it was in perforthing certain duties, was not so much an object of tended to make any alterations in their favour? He complained dread and condemnation to Honourable Members whilst abroad that their rate of wages was too low. as at hoists:. Captain Romeo Was certainly employed in that Sir B. MARTIN observed, that the present system was re service, ' and now. there was a whole nick of - speakers fnan cognized by the Navy Board, and existed under its special the other tide, , ready to grant him remuneration and reward. direction. He wished, however, to take to himself whatever He was as ready as any man to reward se rvices p erformed to res onsibility P might attach to it, as if had been adopted at h is the country, but he.considered that the services Of Capt. Romeo suggestion, When the reductions were made, he said that in had received the same conSideration as was granted to those stead of consigning 5000 men, with average families of five of other individuals who had rendered assistance to the British children each, to starvation, he had made all partake their armies. When it was stated that this Gentleman was shares of the general. privation. He had never heard any thing pursued with vindictiveness by the. Government of Naples, but gratitude expressed by the parties at the course he had so he could only refer to the report of Sir W. A'Court,, which chosen and aeted'upon. directly 'slated that from all the means of information which he Sir J. YORKE corroborated the statement of his Gallant possessed, he did not believe that any persecution had been Friend. exercised towards him. The circumstances which caused his Upon the question that the Speaker do leave the Chair, being sent out of the country arose at a period after the a rmies Sir B. MARTIN said, that before the Speaker should leave left Sicily, and took place in Calabria. They were of a nature the Chair, he was desirous of addressing himself to a subject quite distinct from the part he took with regard to the British which had been alluded to by the Honourable Member for troop:a. The Noble. Lord then alluded to the statements of the Aberdeen on a former occasion. He stated that the use of Petition, and the opinions which had been delivered in Parlia- coal tar for ships would be detrimental to the interests of the mend upon it, on former occasions, and contended that that Navy, and that the first time the ships came into action House were not, so well enabled to judge of the facts as the they would be blown up . He stated also that it was destruc- Minister who resided at the Court of Naples. With regard to dye of the iron work of the vessel, and destructive of hu the eestimony of the General Officers, and their opinion as to man life. These opinions the Honourable Member had the extent of reward which had been given to Capt. Romeo, he founded upon the authority of a Mr. Boot, who was once a could only say that they possessed the management of the mill- shipwright, afterwards a banker, and subsequently to that, tary chest, and hart it in their power to have rewarded him he believed, a bankrupt. This Mr. Boot came to the Navy upon the spot, if they then thought his services merited it. The Board with his plans, and demanded 50001. in advance be main charge of 4,5001. for sums expended in the service of the fore he could carry them into execution. But th B e oard we British army, was only brought forward in th is country, not so ready to part with their money, and then this person whereas it ought to have been 'regularly charged to the army declared that the navy was in danger, and that the first pistol at the time it was expended. On the contrary, it had been that was fired in the ships would blow them up. This the kept a secret from Lord W. Bentinck and Sir James Camp- Honourable Member for Aberdeen adopted and repeated in bell, the proper quarters from whence it should have been re- that House ; and he now called upon hint to state the result of paid. But to them it Was kept a dead secret, and it was only an experiment which was triad on Saturday last in his pm after so much time elapsed that the demand was made to the sence, as well as in that of ilitir distinguished Naval officers, Government of this country. This circumstance, he confessed, and other persons, who all agreed that there never was a more gave him a very unfavourable view of the claims altogether. gross imposition upon the public than these statements which if he said any thing unpleasant to the feelings of Capt. Romeo, had been sent forth. The Hon. Member for Aberdeen believed or any thing injurious to his character, he was exceedingly them, and it was very likely that he (Sir B. 31.) should have sorry for it; but the position in which that Gentleman had done so likewise, under similar circumstances. But he called placed himself, rendered it necessary. for him to say what he upon the Hon. Member to state in that House what he candid did. Under all the circumstances, if 'Captain Romeo had not ly stated on Saturday, with regard to the opinions he had be been paid for his services, it was quite clear that he had suf-' fore professed. The Owen Glendower afforded sufficient proof fered in consequence of not having preferred his claims in pro- that the coal-tar had no bad effect upon the health of the sailors. per time, or that the General Officers who' had been alluded to There was a complement of 264 men on board that vessel, which had, not done their duty—a supposition which he could never was completely saturated with coal-tar, and had been for two bring himself to entertain. With regard to the passport which years in a hot climate ; and out of the 264, living as they did in had been refused to Captain Rotheo, it appeared that he wanted a co n s tant atmos p here of coal-tar, only two had died. one of such a nature as would give him protection, or involve Mr. HUME was extremely happy in the opportunity of sets the 13ritish GOvernment with that of Naples. For such a pur- ting this subject in its proper light before the House. It had pose it would have been most impolitic to have the rights of been represented to him, and to many other individuals, that that Government questioned, and particularly at such a period the practice of the Navy Board for the last six years, which as that at which the. request was made. With such feelings had been recommended by Sir R. Sepping, was detrimental he did not think it advisable to give that particular passport to the service. Under these circumstances, the Board allowed which was not .granted to any one but members of the Bri- the experiment to be made with the greatest fairness on Satur tish Government. lie entirely concurred in the opinion that day last ; and the result was, that not only himself and others, the case altogether did not further demand the attention of but the son of Mr. Boot, went away, convinced - of the error of Parliament. . his father's opinion. He was satisfied that no one could en- Mr. HUME said, that the ground upon which the Noble tertain any opinion but that the gentleman in question had de- Lord objected to these claims was quite different frem that on ceived himself. which he stood last year. It was now admitted that Captain Sir J. YORKE concurred. in the observations of the Hon. Romeo had performed important services to the army ; and he Member for Aberdeen. was quite surprised that the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland, BARBADOES FOUR PER CENTS. should not admit the testimony of General Campbell as to the Mr. CREEVEY said, that as the Ordnance Estimates were degree of remuneration which he had 'received, when he recol- to be submitted to the proposed Committee, he was anxious leeted that not long ago, in the case of Parker, the Right Hon. once more to put o n the Journals his opinion respecting an Secretary brought forward a mere declaration of that Officer, item in those Estimates of 4,6001. for Repairs of the Fortitica and stated that it was deserving of the most implicit reliance. Lions of Barbadoes. He objected to this sum in the Estimates, He begged tp call the attention of the House to what had fallen because there was a particular fend created to meet this ex from the Noble Marquis when the question was agitated upon pence by an Act of the Legislature of the Island passed in the a former occasion. The Noble Marquis produced the letter year 1663. That Act provided a duty of 4i per cent. on cer of Sir W. A'Court, arid read from it the statemen t that Capt. taro commodities, for, among other purposes, providing for the Romeo escaped from prison when he left Italy. The fact was, expence of fortifying the island. The reason that the money that he ,Mr. II.) held in his hand at that very moment the was now claimed from the people of this country was, that this passport of the Swedish Minister, by means of which h e l eft Barbadoes Fund was divided among Gentlemen, Ladies, and the country: After he was left destitute in Egypt, - he contrived children of the higher classes of England. The proper appli as soon as possible to come to this country ; and the reason cation of the Fund had been stated to that House in the reign why he did not make his claims sooner was that he could not of Queen Anne, by a petition from certain Barbadoes mer get to this country sooner. After he did arrive; the 501. a year chants, praying that the Fund might be restored to its original was allowed him at the intercession of the Duke of York, and object, which was done accordingly. - The original purpose of which was only. to be allowed while the consideration of his the Fund had therefore been recognised by the House. The claims was pending. The honour of the British Government present practice of distributing the money ought to be altered ; demanded that something should be done for this unintunate especially as the distress of the country was so great as to have gentleman ; and he was convinced that public reward had induced the Crown to make a considerable sacrifice for the pub often been bestowed with great liberality, for services of much lie good. He was determined on a future occasion (as he had less importance than those which he had. performed. , done before) to bring the subject under the notice of the House Mr; FORBES said', that he had seen the petitioner in a in a specific shape ; and for the present he should content him dreadful state of distress, and in the greatest alarm at a circum- self by moving as an Amendment to the motion that the stance in which he (Mr. Forbes) placed no belief. He should Speaker should leave the Chair, " That the Committee be in mention it in order to give the Government an opportunity of strutted to inquire whether the duties raised by the Act of doing what he was sure they Would do ; namely, of contradict- Legislature of Barbadoes Island, for defraying the expence of ing it. -Thiannfeetunate Gentleman was in the greatest dread fortifying the same, were ade q uate for that purpose." of being sent out of the country under the Alien Act. Five The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he should not men, calling themselves Pidiee Officers, had been to his lodg- enter into the argument of the question, as the Hon. Member ings, or rather to his garret, where he was in a most miserable had stated his intention to bring the subject before the House state in a room foe which he paid four and sixpence a week, in the shape of a distinct motion. The Hon. M ember mi g ht, . .. _ if Ile pleased, oppose the particular vote in the Committee. He The Committee must be aware that much firmness had been necessary to accomplish the reduction ; for it could' not but be an irksome, a painful task to reduce persons from a state of comfort to one of comparative nothingness, and especially when that were done without any fault of their own. He beg ged here to observe, that he had stated last year that these re ductions were in contemplation. It was then asked why had they not been made before ? but the answer was, that the doing so required much consideration and discussion. The Master-General of the Ordnance had long contemplated a total change in the constitution of the department ; and was resolved to try the experiment of introducing in the vari ous offices checks upon each other. This had been accom plished, and had considerably multiplied the business. Re turns were now made to the principal office once a month, instead of once a quarter ; and this return included a daily journal of the business done, and of the minutest receipt and expenditure. More business was now transacted than ever in the various offices, and yet the number of persons in them had been reduced. In almost every office there had been reductions, and others were contemplated. The long services of some of the officers rendered it impossible to re duce them with any justice; and it was therefore proposed that they should be allowed to remain until death or retire ment ; it being understood that the vacancies thus caused were not to be filled up. It was also intended to throw on the Ord nance the labour performed by the two great Departments of Barrack Master General, and Storekeeper General. This ar rangement was undoubtedly in its infancy, but it would be certainly brought to maturity for the public benefit, and he should be happy if the Services required for those departments could be performed at the Ordnance as ably as they were under their present management. He now came to notice the savings in the military branch of the department ; and he congratulated the Committee on the change. of construction which had taken plate ; a change, to accomplish which the Earl of Mulgrave had gone a considerable way, and which had been carried into perfection by the Duke of Wellington, the present Master- General. The' corps of Drivers had been reduced four men and five horses in each company, and the Drivers were not now under two commands, as they had been before. All the officers of the corps had, in some degree, undergone a reduction ; and the total number reduced was four hundred. The recruits were, for the future, to be engaged as gunners as well as drivers ; an arrangement which Would be found highly beneficial, as it would render a distinct corps unnecessary.— The sum saved by this part of the reduction was 17,0001. • but, on the other side of the account, there was a smal l addition for pensions, and for allowances to Engineers, Sap pers, and Miners ; so that the clear saving would be 16,0001. An improvement had been effected in that part of the service relating to Reliefs. Formerly many of the military engaged in this branch of the service were detained many years in foreign climates • a circumstance which was . justly considered a hard- But, by an addition of 92 men ur the effective force, it hid been so arranged that 200 should always be in readiness• to proceed abroad arid relieve. A decrease had taken place in the number and pay of labourers, as would be seen on a com parison of the present with the last year's Estimates ; and a saving had been effected in many cases, by a transfer of labour from one establishment to another. This might be instanced in the transfer of labour from the ordinary to the extraordinary branch of the Department, and the transfer of barrack furni ture. In- the West India Islands, in the office of Clerk of Stores there had been a saving on the item of half-pay. The whole of the diminution of the expence on the military branch was seventy-four thousand pounds, and there were some ar ticles of excess in which he trusted the expence would be re= funded ; particularly with respect to the expence charged to the Colony of Demerara for fortifications. This with some others would make an apparent excess of 51,0001. ; but there were reductions interspersed through the Estimates which brought this sum down to 21,0001. There was a slight excess caused by increase of pay to overseers and clerks of works, and allowances to sappers and miners, clerks, &c. amounting to 14,0001. forming a part of the sum he had mentioned as an excess. Should he not have made himself clearly under stood on this subject, he should' feel pleasure of giving every information within his power to the Committee.— The last branch of the Expenditure was that called " the Unprovided," in which the expence had been kept down to the lowest possible sum. This year it was but 9,8411. while in former years it ,had been as much as 40,0001. and 60,0001. From the charges relating to Ireland, the deductions, compared with last year's expence, amounted to 15,0001. and had been brought under the inspection and judicious manage ment of the Surveyor-General. The Estimates stated the name, situation, and salary of every Officer ; and as he thought it better in the first instance to give the Committee merely an outline of the Estimates, he should reserve the minuter sub jects for explanation, as it might be called for by the Coin mittee. He intended to move the votes in the same order in which they were moved last year, beginning with the establish ments of the .Tower and Pall-Mall, and going through the dif-' ferent stations. The, Hon. Member concluded by moving a Resolution for 35,8421. for the salaries of the Master-General, and other Officers of the Ordnance at the establishments at the Tower and Pall-Mall. Mr. HUME expressed his satisfaction that a change had been effected in the Department, and at the statement which had been made by the Hon. Member, which lie considered to be clearer than usual. He thought it, however, difficult to com pare the expence of one department with the other. He ap proved of the transfer of labour, but regretted that so much of the reduction was in contemplation only. He thought the ex pense of the Barrack Board was unreasonably great. His object was to shew, if possible, the comparative charges, and for this purpose he would take the year 1817 as a medium year bf expence. He thought great credit was due to the Depart ment for the reduction of expence under the " unprovided" branch of expence. The reduction .had certainly been consi derable.--( Hear, hear, hear !)—On the whole, however, he could not see that there was much reason for congratula tion. In the year 1792, the whole expence of this Depart ment was 400,0001. ; in 1817, 1,233,0001. ; and now, in 1822, 1,234,0001. He was free to admit, that when the army in creased, the Ordnance must have increased also. The whole expence was nominally one thousand pounds more than that of last year, though certainly the unprovided head of expenditure bad een reduced from 50,0001. to 9,0001. It was for the Committee to consider whether this expence was not too great ; it being admittedly three times more than that of the year 1792. In the year 1796 the Secretary to the Board had only six clerks ; in the last year he had thirty, and now he had twenty-three. The highest salary of any clerk in the office of the Secretary in that year was 2761., now it was 11771. In 1796 the whole expence of that office was 8321. • and now it was 80001. In the office of Surveyor-General there had been a considerable increase of expence. In 1706 there were fourteen clerks, and the expence was 2,4001. ; in the last year, thirty-six and asserted that he was to be removed. • He was in constant ariprehension that he should be delivered up to the Sicilian Go vernment, and he (Mr Forbes) misted that . his mind would be placed 'at ease by a declaration from Ministers that there was no ground far Ale alarm. He could not but think that this case, 1w relation to. many others, shewed the Government to be penny wise and pound foolish. There was, indeed, a , case which.would prove this, that he was surprised to find had escaped some Hon. Gentlemen on the 'other side. He, how ever, would pledge himself to give Ministers an opportunity of denying it by bringing it forward himself, if they were not dis posed to do something for this unfortunate man.—(A It appeared extremely hard that he should have forfeited a pension of fifty pounds 6-year because he was reduced' to the necessity of accepting a sum of three hundred. If he could be placed upon the same footing by refunding that sum, he (Mr. Forbes) would engage that it should be made up. The poor man Was. at this moment without a sixpence in his pocket. It was true that a small subscription was lately raised for him, but there were upon the list the names of some very charitable gentlemen who, had not paid their subscriptions. He hoped that if this should meet their ears or eyes, they would not re quire any further application. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY, said, that with regard to any order for remoying Captain Romeo from the country, he. had heard not one word about it. The Hon. Member had beon, he thought, in a credulours huMour upon several points. As to: the hidden charges against the Government, be entreated the Hon. Member not to use them for purposes of extortion, but to bring them forvi:ard at once, without observing the least ceremony. Mr. FORBES said; that if the subject was not irrelevant to the question before the House, he had no objection to point oiit.the case to whichhe had alluded.—(Cries of " Go on;')_. lie would then ask, whether a pension of 8 001 . per annum had not been lately settled" upon Lady Torrens, the wife of Sir Henry Torrens, a name which claimed the highest respect. It had been stated to-him, that that gallant General, whose ser vices had been attended with so much advantage, and bestowed with the greatest possible attention, had some time ago re signed the situation which he held. and taken one with less duties and an inferior salary ; and that in consequence a pen sion. to the amount he had stated had been granted to Lady Torrens. if he pleased, °pp (the :Marquis), however, presumed that the object of the Hon. Member was merely to record his own opinion. Mr. HUME said, the object of his Hon: Friend was to call on the Committee to consider whether the money had or had not been diverted from its original purpose. In- fairness he thought that the subject should.be sent to the Committee. Mr. G OULBU RN denied that in fairness the subject should be sent to the Committee. It was not a business for the inanity of a Committee of Supply ; and, at all events, the Hon. Mem ber could move to leave out the particular sum. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared— For the original question - - 62 For the amendment - - 14 Majority - - • ---48 ORDNANCE OF ESTIMATES. On our re-admission into the gallery we found the House in a Committee. • Mr. R. WARD rose to move the Ordnance Estimates. The total of the expense of this branch of the public service would be 1,200,0001., being 72,0001. less than that of the last year on the ordinary part of the estimates, and 21,6001. more than that of the extraordinary, on a comparison with the expense of the last year. Under that part of the estimates called " the un provided," it would be seen that the sum was 30,0001. less than last year. Under the charge for " superannuation," there was an excess on the military side of 6,0481. and on the civil of 9,3251. It would, however, be obvious that this increase was caused by the decrease in the body of the Estimates. The service for Ireland required a sum less by 15,0001. than that required in the last year. The whole sum requited would be apparently 105,0001. more than last year ' but in point of real expense there was a reduction of 83,0001. A saving had been effected in the civil and military branches of the service which he would. describe 'very shortly, beginning with the civil. The prin cipal Offices belonging to the Ordnance Department were those of Pall-mall and the Tower • in these there had been a real saving of 62571. Under the head of Contingencies, there had been a saving of , 19001- ; and on the expense of all the Foreign Stations one of 73811. In the item of Repairs, the saving was 23001. ' • so, that with a few minor reductions, the. whole saving in the Civil Branch amounted to 24, 3431 . This had been effected by a reduction in the number of_ Offices ; in clerks; at an expence of 10,6211., and this year tWenty-nine clerks, at an expence of 9,0001. In the office of Clerk of the Ordnance there had been an increase in the number of clerks of from fifteen to twenty-three, and the expence had been tripled. In the office of Treasurer, there were in 1796 ten clerks, at an expence of 12001. ; last year there were tivtive clerks, at an expence of 30001., and this year eight clerks, at an expence of 20961. This he found was the only office which hadheen reduced in number since the year 1796, Having given these specimens of the increase, he should really- he happy to see the reduction specifically pointed out. If the expence had been really reduced, there must, he thought, have been a most unequal distribution of the service. The principal increase in the expence from the year 1796 had been in the establishments at the Tower and Pall-mall. He certainly expected that some attention would have been paid to the Report of the Com missioners of Military Inquiry, which stated that it would be desirable to join the Pall-mall and Tower establishments. — The Commissioners also thought that Woolwich was a better place than the Tower for receiving stores. They considered like wise that the office of Lieut.-General was necessary °lily in war, upon a presumption that the Master-General might be callpd upon foreign service. They recommended that only two of the Officers of the Department should hold seats in that House; but now there were four- who always supported the propositions of Government. Had the recommendation of the Commissioners been attended to, the reductions would have been considerably greater in amount; but in the present re ductions, he thought the benefit of the higher officers had ,been consulted rather than that of the public. In the year 1796, the expence of the establishment at Pall-mall and the Tower was but 18,0001. last year it was 51,0001. This he thought was considerably too large. If the expence were twice as much as it was in the year 1796, it would be amply sufficient. He had expected that the Master-General of the Ordnance De partment would have lowered his own salary. He had re duced the junior salaries, and he , was sure they would have better borne that redur4i in had he commenced with himself. In 1796, the Master-General received 1,5601. a-year, and now he drew 3,1751. a sum which he thought would very well bear a reduction of 1,0001. Looking at the other Officers of the de partment, he was of opinion that 1,0001. would be quite suffi cient for the Treasurer. The whole of the higher Officers of the Department ought to suffer a diminution of salary. In 1' vhr--- Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, it was most certainly true that a pension had been granted to Lady Torrens. It was in the knowledge of the House that the disposal of pensions to a cer tain amount formed a part of the constitutional power of the Crown. Sir Henry Torrens was well known to the country— (Hear, hear !)--and he thought that a pension granted to his Lady, as an acknowledgment of his services, would never be considered an improper exercise of the Royal Prerogative.— (Rear, hear !) 'Lord J. RUSSELL thought that the testimony of the Bri tish Generals ought to outweigh that of the Neapolitan Govern m4nt. He was quite sure that the Government could have no i4t4mtion et-enforcing the provisions of the Alien Act against the petitioner. He was certain they would, do nothing so vio lent ; and. he did hope that they would reconsider his case, and the on. Gentleman had discussed the subject submitted to the consideration of the House.—(Hear, hear !)—He should be extremely happy to give the Honourable Gentleman every information in his power upon the points where there ap peared to be any dissension betwixt them, and for that purpose he would follow him as closely as possible in the observations he- had made. With regard to the Barrack Board, he admitted that many and extensive reductions would be made, but he could not say that 18,0001. would be sufficient to support it henceforward. The Honourable Gentleman did not seem to understand the way in which he made his calculations , _ to prove the reduction of establishments on comparing the present year with 1792. He first took the numbers of last year, and after subtracting from them the re duction made in this year, he compared the result with 1792, and a difference of twenty-nine, allowing for Ireland, ap peared in favour of this year. The Hon. Gentleman's disap proval of the Lieutenant-General attached to the office he could not at all agree with. In the Board of Admiralty the naval duties were entrusted to a naval officer, and at the Board of Ordnance the military business was under the superintend ence of a General Officer. It was true that the numbers in Pall-mall and the Tower were greater. This was in conse quence of an immense addition of business thrown upon these departments from the reductions in the out-stations. - The Hon. Gentleman had made little mistake in thinking that the bu siness of the Ordnance Office could go on with a reduction of 10,0001. Ile assured the Hon. Gentleman, that even with his physical powers of labour, he could not . rival the application to business of some of the officers. He particularly dis tinguished the Secretary to the Board, whose unremitting at tention to his duty had rarely been equalled, and he was sure could never be surpassed. He did not even quit his office at the time of meals. The most scrupulous attention was also exacted from every individual •in the office. The clerks in each department were obliged to attend at the appointed. hours, and, as a check over them, the Heads of Departments were called upon to report the hours of their coming and going away. The public had, indeed, not only the whole of their time that they had a right to expect, but even more, as that leisure to which every Gentleman in a public office was en titled had been trenched upon.lately. In his own office, and in the office-of SurveyOr-General and others, he knew that the clerks were obliged to attend three hours and upwards beyond their usual period, in order to bring up arrears of business. Thus they were to be found at work there from seven in the morning till four, and till eight and nine at night. It was impossible, therefore, that more could be re quired from them ; and if they took 10,0001. from the Esta blishment, as suggested by the Hon. Member for Monttose„ the business could not be done. By the new mode of conduct ing the office, according to the system of the Master-General, all that human nature could do would be done ; but he was not sure that it could be carried into complete execution. At all events, he protested ,against Hon. Members sepposing that by a scrape of the pen, or, as if it were by magic, the whole system of management of an office of this description could be changed, and an inordinate reduction of expenditure effected. It was not true that the junior officers were divested of that solace under their loss of salary, to be derived from the consi deration that their superiors shared in their deprivations. The fact was, that the encouragement was much greater than the Hon. Gentleman could suppose; for whilst 5 per cent. was taken from the minor salaries, to be returned in the form of superannuation allowance, 10 per cent. was taken off those which were to receive no such• return. For his own part, his salary was 1001. less than what was attached to his office in 1792 ; but yet he would not escape the Bill of his Right Honourable Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), and he could wish that the Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Hume) would interfere in that quarter oil the ground of justice. The Treasurer of whom the Honourable Gen tleman had spoken, would 1201. out of his salary, and he should be sorry to see so exemplary a public accomptant reduced lower. Once more he must enter his protest against what Hon. Gentlemen who came down there and spoke at random about reductions being regarded as gospel. What Lord sioira, Lord Mulgrave, Lord Chatham, and especially the Duke of "Wellington, whom nothing escaped any more than if he were in face of the enemy all day long, said, must be taken as coming from more competent judges of the matter, than Gentlemen whose opinion were derived from • a cursory examination of a few days duration. There should be no jealousy about the size of the Board, as connected with the question of diminishing the influence of the Crown in that House. The Board was composed of the heads of the different departments of the Office, who received no sa lary for sitting at the Board beyond the amount of their allow ances for their patent offices. And it was plain that the Board must be mote t fficient, from being so composed. With regard to the influence of the Crown, although five of the Board were permitted to have seats in that House, only three of them were there. He hoped the Honourable Gentleman therefore would see that reduction had been carried as far as it consistently could.—(H ear !) Mr. ELLICE thotight that the two offices at the Tower and Pall-mall might be consolidated, and when the Right Hon. Gentleman assured them that they could not usefully do soy he wished to know how the House were to judge between his in terested assertion and the declaration of the Commissioners for Military Inquiry ? There was one ground upon which he would support all the propositions for reduction of his Hon. Friend behind him. This was when it were not satisfactorily proved to him that the business of the different Departments had increased in proportion to the increase of cost since 1796. —That had not been proved in the present case, and he must say, that however painful it might be, he must support the proposition for a diminution of the salary of the Master-Gene ral of the Ordnance in proportion to the increase in value of the currency since 1814. He thought 10,0001, might very well be spared, and if his Hon. Friend carried it to a division lie should have his vote. CoIoneIDAVIES observed, that so far from there being any decrease in the Estimates for the present year 2 there was , ac tually an increase of about 32,0001. over the Estimates of 1819. Mr. WARD observed, with reference to what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Coventry, that there was at present six teen times as much half-pay to manage: as there was in 1792, besides what increase of business had occurred from the Union with Ireland. Mr. HUME said that, independently of othei motives, he was most anxious to take the sense of the Committee on the question of allowing the salary of the Master General to re main the same as it was in time of war. He really thought that an example in the higher appointments ought to be set, and he should therefore move that a reduction of 10,0001. be made upon the vote under consideration. Sir R. FERGUSSON wished to know whether he was right in supposing that a reduction had been made in the Medical Department. He understood that so many as twelve most _ _ - _ Icon- efficient Medical Officers had been reduced to' a very .in6_ siderable allowance, whilst by a new appointment to the situ. ation of Surgeon-General, the whole saving thus acquired was swallowed up. Mr. WARD admitted, that in consequence of the represen tations of that House of the size of the Medical Department, reductions had been made. But they had notheen reduced on the grounds stated, viz. to keep the Surgeon-General in his situation. The Master-General wished to have only one medi cal officer at Woolwich, but it was found impossible to induce any one to take the two situations of Director and Surgeon- General. The Surgeon-General, Sir J. Webb, was invalided, and unable from asthma to do hospital duty in winter, and the Surgeon-General from Dublin was put in his place. Dlr. HUME said that it was the reduction of the Board that he had recommended last year. Sir J. Webb had been excused hospital duty for a long while, and was in fact forced to retire against his will, to make way for the Gentleman from Dublin. The late Surgeon General had retired upon full pay, at 31.75. a day ; the twelve individuals, reduced to two shillings a day after long service, created a saving of 31. 2s. Bd. a day ; so that there was actually an increased charge of ss. per diem by the transaction. The House then divided. For the. Amendment . 30 Against it - - 95 Majority against the Motion ---65 On our re-admission to the gallery, we found the Committee ageeing to the resolution for, granting 12,8851. for the civil 'establishments of the Ordnance Department on the home sta tion, for the year 1822. The following resolutions were then agreed to : That a sum not exceeding 23,4951. be granted to defray the expences of the increased salaries to officers on the civil esta blishment of the Ordnance at home and abroad, for the year 1822. That a sum not exceeding 17,2001. be granted for civil con tingencies of the Ordnance, for the year 1822. That a sum hot exceeding 4,2581. 13s. 6d. be granted to de. fray the charges of the 27 master-gunners for Great Britain, for the year 1822. That a sum not exceeding 40,7931. ss. 3d. be granted to de fray the expences of the royal engineers, for the year 1822. That a sum not exceeding 26,2871. be gra nted for the cx Y • the number of persons will) filled others ; and in the lessening 1796, the whole Department cost but 18,7061. whereas - in the .. _ of their salaries. Last year there were nearly 500 persons in present year it was estimated at 56,0001. So inordinate a dif- pence of sappers and miners, for the year 1822. anti about the Ordnance;, and upwards of 100 had been re- ference demanded at least a reduction of 10,0001. to be That a sum not exceeding 244,M. 9s. 2d. be granted for duced ; so that he hoped the Committee would not think the supported by diminution in the higher salaries. However, he defraying the expense of the royal artillery, for the year 1822,• Heads of the Department had been idle since the last Session. should not make a motion to that effect until .he heard upon That a sum not exceeding 36,9541. 16s. 2d. be granted to The number number of persons now employed was 385. If this num- what ground it was that these salaries were allowed to remain fray the expences of the Royal horse-artillery and the riding ber were compared with that of the favourite year 1792, it untouched, whilst those under them were not spared. He school, for the yes , r 1822: would be found that the numerical strength of the Department thought they ought at least to have the encouragement to sup- That a sum of 2,6241. 98. 2d. be granted for defraying the had been decreased. In the year 1792, the number of persons port their reductions of seeing that those above them were not expense* of the Director-general and staff of the field t r ai n for was 359, without noticing Ireland ; and it might here be ob- exempted from similar. diminutions. If the Board would not the year 1822. served that several Colons numb been since added to this coun- of their own accord follow the recommendations of the Corn- That a sum, not exceeding 6,8601. 12s. be granted to defray try by conquest. If the r em pl o y e d at that time for missioners of Military inquiry, the Committee must force them the expences of the Medical establishment of the Ordnance, for Ireland were added, the number would be 414, being 2 9 more to do it. , 1822. than the number at present attached to the Department.— • Mr. WARD expressed his satisfaction at the tone in which That a sum, not exceeding 6,0591. lOs. 3d. be granted for de. fraying the civil expences of the military establishment for cadets at Woolwich, for the year 1822. The following sums were then Proposed by Mr Ward, and agreed to without opposition ;-3,7811. 4s. 9d. for defraying the expences of the Ordnance department' in 1821, yet unprovided for ' • 308,3851. 13s. 6d. for superannuated Officers, Widows, and Pensioners ; 11,3651. 17s. 4d. for the same purposes in Ire land. Mr. WARD declined to proceed farther' with the estimates at that late hour (12 o'clock; and therefore moved that the Chairman do report progress. The House resumed, and the report was ordered to be receiv ed on Thursday next. FOREIGN TRADE. Mr. 'WALLACE brought in a Bill for the repeal of divers statutes relative to the importation of goods from foreign coun tries. The Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a se cond time on the 18th of April. The same Hon. Member then brought in two other Bills, having for their object to encourage navigation and commerce. by regulating the importation of foreign goods, each of which was read a first, and ordered to be read a second time on the 18th of April. IRISH FIVE PER CENTS. - The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought in the Irish Five per Cents. Bill, which was read a first, and or dered to be read a second time,to-morrow, and to be printed. Mr. LUSHINGTON laid oo the table of the House certain papers relative to Mr. Theodore Hook. 'The other orders of the day were dis?osed of, and the House adjourned v at HALF-PAST TWELVE 0 CLOCK. LONDON MARKETS. PRICE OF BREAD THIS WEEK. The, highest price of .the best Wheaten Bread throughoot he Metropolis, is stated by the principal Bakers to be 9d. :he Quarters Loaf.—Some Bakers , sell the Quarter!' Loaf, from one penny to two pence lower. ib. oz. I lb.oz. Peek Loaf to weigh .. 17 6 Quartern Loaf to weigh 4Si Half ditto.. ditto .... 8 1 Half Quarters ditto .. 2 .2/ IMPORTATIONS OF GRAIN LAST WEEK. English. Irish. Foreign. . , Wheat - - Barley . 9,903 - • -- Malt . 6,319 - - Oats - Bye lO4 - -- Beans - - Peas - -- Tares . - - Rapeseed , - -- - Mustard - - Seeds 477 - -- Flour • - 8,349 140 - • Brank - -- Linseed - --- Alatell Red Clover (Foreign).. 26s 42s—fine, 52s 60s —s per cwt. Ditto English R. 28s 40s—fine new, 50s 68s 72s White ditto 34s 50s—fine, 63s 66g' Rye-Grass .... l4s to fZ , Is per qr. Turnip Seeds , —s Od 3Rs to 463 pr. bush. White Mustard Seed Bs to lOs 6d Brown ditto 'los to 15s 6d • Red and Green ... —s Od to —s Od Carraway Seeds 568 to 65s—fine, 67s Coriander do los 14s 15s - • Cinque Foin Trefoil Ribgrass ... .2Bs 37s—fine, 45s 46s Canary per qr —s ags to 4is Od per qr. Linseed 4ss 52s—fi:,,, 54s 56s per qr; Rape Seed Winter Tares ' • ' 26s to 30s Od per qr. HUGE OF IlOrti, per t;wt., Match 23. Pockets. I ' Bags. Kent .. 31 Os a3l 16s a5l Os Kent # .21 166 a3l 16s a4l 15s Sussex.. 52i 14s a :31 3s a3i lOs tiussex 21 8s a-21 16s a3l 3s Essex ~21 18s a3l lOs a4l 4s ESsex.. 21 lOs a3l lOs a4l Os Farnham, line, 61 to 101 o. , —tireonds, 41 Os to 71 7s SNII I H FIELD MARKb I.—March 26. (To stoB the Offal—per Stone of Bibs.) Beef is 4d to 3s 84 I Veal Mutton .... 2s 8d to 4s Od Pork is 4d to 4s 4d _ _ . • Lamb Os od to Os Od HEAD OF CATTLE THIS DAY. Beasts 9,545 I Calves l2O Sheep 2 1, 710 Pigs 220 NEAVGATE AND LEADENHALL 11 , 1Ati.K.LTS. By the Carcase. Beef 2s Od to as Oti 4 Vca1........3s Od to 5s Od Mutton 4d to 3s Od I Pork _ 2s 4d to 4s 441 Lamb, Os ód to Os Od. ST. JAMES'S HAY MARKET, March 3s Od to 41 4s Oci l Clovcr, 31 Bs to 41 bs Straw.. 11 7s Od to 11 19s od 1 SMITHFIELD. - Hay Straw Clover 4l Os 0(1 to 41 15s oa—Average, .41 Os ud WHITECHAPEL. Hay 31 10s Od to 41 4s Od---Average, 41 68 od New ditto... 01 Os Od to 01 Os ud--Average t 01 Oi Od Straw Clover 4l Os Od to 51 Os 0d1•--Average, 41 lOs od RAW [IDES. Best Heifers & Steers, per st. Ordinary • .... 2s 4d to 2s (id 3s Od to 35 2d Market Calf '.. each.. los od Middlings 2s 8d to is 10d Eng. Horse Os Od to Os od SHEEP SKINS. Polled Downs 4s 6d to 5s 9tl 1 Shearhogs lod to od 1 Lanihs Os Od to,osod PRICE OF LEATHER. Butts, 50 to 561bs each per lb ISd to 2ld Ditto, 5h to 66Ibs each 224 to '24d _ _ . - • Dressing Hides 17d to 18d Coach Hides Crop Hides, 35 to 401bs for cuttiog ..17d to 181 d Ditto .... 45 to Soibs Calf Skins..Bo to 401bs 24d to 97d Ditto 50 to 701bs 46d to 33d Ditto ,70 to 801bs 24d to 27d Small Seals (Greenland) Large ditto Tan - ned Horse Hides: Spanish Horse Hides . ..,Isd to :id 1...16d to 2nd PRICES OF TALLOW 'town Tallow 46s 6d —s od Yellow Russia 52s od —s od White ditto .. 46s od —s Oi: Soap ditto.... 46s od —s Od Melting Stuff 98s Oil —s Od Ditto Rough.. 25s od —s Od PRICE OF CANDLES, Feool Price of Candles, per dozeu 6d per dozen allow , SOAP, &C. per 1 tQlb. Yellow Soa p B 4l I Mottled 94 1. Curd Graves Good Dregs .. is it TALLOW CHANDLER'S HALL. a. 9s 6d—Moulds, lls Od. ed for ready money. PRICE OF RAW FAT, per Stone of 81b.—March RS. Price Of Tallow (as stated by the 'Fallow Nlelters), 29 714 COAL MARKET,'NIarch 25. Ships at Market. Ships sold. Price. 951 Newcastle 276 Sunderland •, 1 Scotch Coal .....~.. ,1 i Stone Coal 1 Cinders COUNTRY MARKEL'. GUILDFORD MA Wheat per 1. 010 s to 01 Os New Wheat .. Os to 171 Os Oats, per qr... 01 15$ to 11 5s New ditto.... 01 Os to 01 Os RKET March 3. 2 Bariey,new, 01 16s to 11 es ISeans, per qr.ll 1s to 11 I 2 Pease, per qr. 11 4s to 11 6 5 Rye, per qr. 01 Os to 01 OS. BIRTHS. On the 23d inst. at King's Terrace, Portsmouth, the Lady of Capt.l3ayly, Royal Artillery, of a son. On the 19th inst., at Tynemouth, the Lady of Hugh Moises, Esq., 7th Dragoon. Guards, of a daughter. M A RRIED. At St. Petersburgh, on the 18th November (0..5.) 1821. Wm. Clerk, Esq. to Jane, eldest daughter of Mr. John For man, watchmaker in that city. DIED. On Saturday last, at Brompton Park House, in the 134th year of his age, James Vere, Esq. Banker, in Lombard-street. On the 24th inst., at his lodgings in Vere-street, Robt. Stith Esq., of East Knoyle, in . the county of Wilts. On the 15th inst., at his house, Castle Meere, Rochdale, in his 51st year, John Walmsley, Esq., late High Sheriff for toe county of Lancaster. On the 15th inst., aged 36 , in Nicholas street, Ch es ter. Sophia, the wife of Mr. Ayrton, and eldest daughter of Francis' Nicholson, Esq. Printed and Published, for the PROPRIETORS, at the SUS' OFFICE, 112, Strand, by J. B. CARrilkuis. C this VII LE Trz