The Sun. — London, England, 1822-06-08 00:00:00

1t.e.13:1.1 went to deprive all the rreeholders of the County of a very important part of their elective franchise. He should move that the Bill be read a second time this day she months. ;01r. HAMDEN seconded the amendment. He was .of epimon that the sentiments of the Grand Jury at the last Assizes for the County of York were entitled to the,considera tize. of the House. Out of twenty-one of that Grand - Jury, seventeen were then absolutely against the Right Hon. Get feman's Bill. The othei fonr had then reserved their opi rttiOTA, but three of them had since declared against it. It was however right to state, that one of those who were against the had since declared in its favour. He thought it unfair tq deprive the electors of the franchises which they already possessed. He, for one, had at present four votes, but , the effect bf the Bill, if passed, would be to deprive him of two c: then. WILBERFORCE said, he would implore the House not to view that question as one of no great importance.—lt ui not regard the county of York only, but the principle of the dill was to be considered as of a general nature.— Theob ,jeet, of the Right Hon. Gentleman in bringing forward the Bill, was stated to be with a view to avoid the expense and the pamalt of contested elections. The same reasoning would apply to all ether counties and places in which there was a -contest. The contest was frequently not the less warm or less expensive because it was confined to a smaller space sr number of electors than Yorkshire had. Small towns were often the theatres of great contests. He was, well ac qaainted with the principles of liberty, and he was sure they would be better supported by bringing great multi tides together. He recollected, with satisfaction, that he .was a candidate six times for the representation of 'the county of York. lie did not think the heat or the expence to be a cause of so much alarm as to require the present Bill. At present any of the Members could be the Representatives of ereey interest in the county—of the agricultural, the manufac ;snag, and the commercial interests. ,If the Right Honour able Gentleman's Bill passed, the case would be very different. :each interest would have its own representative. On those E . :comas he would vote against 'the Bill, and he implored the neuse to consider that it was the national interest, and not the, interest of the county of York only, that was at stake. Mr. WYNN said, that from the speeches of those who had approved of the disfranchisement of the Borough of Gram pcsnd, and of transferring the elective franchise to the county of York rather than the neighbouring hundreds, it was clear that they sanctioned, that measure on the understanding that a Bill like the .present would be brought in to regulate the elections. It was not at that time introduced that they should net incar the risk of throwing out the Bill in the Lords by incumbering it with that regulation. There was not time last Session to proceed with a separate Bill of that nature.s-- it vas objected that. he Bill infringed on the elective fran chise ; and it was asked why the same attempt was not made in other counties? The answer was evident; Wilt shire was to have four Members henceforward; and, be sides, it contained. a larger body of electors, and was a more extensive county than any other. It was a fact, that at the last election for that county, several voters, although they had travelled a great distance, had not time to give _fr.= votes, but were obliged to go as they came. York shhe being a manufacturing county, there was a tendency,. by the increase of wealth, to an increased number of voters, and -ecr:sequently the measure, which he had intended by the Bill, we id become necessary, and should be carried sooner or later. at war said, that if the expence of those elections was great, Coat expence was for constitutional and legitimate purposes, .tzt tie would ask the House if it was fit to continue an eke ten Which'was known to have cost each party 100,0001. ? Be sides, the number of electors was so great, that no one person eels be able to decide the votes. There were 13,830 voters in the 'West Riding alone. Would not 14,000 electors bequite sef.cient to satisfy any man's love for liberty or popularity ? If any of the four Members gave offence to a portion of the e.,:iectors, he would have to stand a contest. He would refer to - .r.e'city of London, in which there was no election without a -‘on test. He did not think the Grand Jury, to whose opinion House was called, ought to have gone out of their proper sp'r.er.e. They were sworn for particular purposes, and ought riot to meddle with anv other matters. They were not more corr.petent to judge of the necessity of the Bill than that House, whose decision he would leave it. • Lord .NORAIANBY oppoted the Bill. He thought the in terfefence of the Grand Jury extremely proper, as they inter fered not as Brand Jurors, but as Electors of the County of • - Yezh. ;geed HOTHAM supported the Bill, and denied that it was hhjected to by the majority of the county of York, which was apparent from the petitions on the table, eight of which were enzerenst the Bill, andseven in favour of it. Mr. S. WORTLEY said the eacts of this Bill would be the ,Seetnaction of the influence. of the landed interest in the West Riding; and as he thought the opinions of the persons most deeply interested in every thing relative . to the county of York i•gettile to the Bill, he should oppose the second reading. Admiral SQUTHETtNE, Mr. DEesisost, and Mr. Pvli- Cheeng. opposed the second reading. Mr. H. SUMNER supported this Bill because he thought the West Riding ought not to. be allowed to ride over the other two Ridings. The House then divided— For the Second Reading . . . 27 Agatinst it . . . . . 59 INlajmity against the Second Reading —37 Mr. S. RICE asked a question across the table, respecting the time when an step might be taken on. the Report of the Co----Itsioners to inquire into abuses in the Court of Exchequer 7.reland. • 21r. GOULBURN said (as was understood), that he would tete a future opportunity of answering the question. Mr. PLUNKETT said •.lic had not yet seen the Report of the commissioners ; but that if any one had a right to com plain, it was the learned person (Chief Baron O'Grady) whose choncizet had been brought into question. J. NEWPORT tlitiught the consideration of this sub ;e-c• eight not to be' delayed beyond the present Session. A Al staluE a, under the Gallery, wished to know from the Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether it was his intention to propose any alteration in the Duties now payable on East India Sugar ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it was not the intention of his Majesty's Government to make any al teration In the existing duties. CONSTABLES IN IRELAND BILL. M. GOULBUILN rose to move the second reading of this Rill. Ile pointed out the state of the Police with regard to the 9er:ointment of Constables, and she:tied its defects. •He also alluded to the' difficulties of arresting perions in Ireland, which cchld selsbni be effected with the concurrence or without the cp.-position of the population. ..From these causes, to be efficiect in his office, a constablehuglit to devote his whole time to its dutie.i. The Grand Juries who now appointed them could not grant such salaries as would enable them to do so, and, iticon setsuchee the office of .coestable had fallen into a state which it was most desirable to avoid: If they wished to make the people -or Ireland respect the law, they must endeavour to ensure its atiministration with effect. The means of accomplishing this, . he whe about to propose to the House. Ile was aware that he might be met with the objection that it was against the prin. hipsen of the Constitution to - vest such a power in the hands of the Government as the appointment of these constables. But he thought the first constitutional duty of every man was.to en feeee the observance of the laws. The . appointment cf the chief coheheble of a henry was no new power in the hands of:Go vernment. Several previous Acts had authorised this, and the oialece now in view fully authorised them in extending the power to the common constables. He should propose by the • thin the duties of a constable should be limited to. the maintenance of the peace, under the directions of the Ma gieteates. He knew that the House had rot always met entat it exnected from the Magistracy of Ireland, but he "t ought the 'present measure would remove one of the aire:-Iculties which prevented their acting with that effi ciency which rendered a Magistracy. respectable. The Horn was aware that there were extraordinary measures cf police now in operation,. which had been attended with the most happy results; and he did not mean to irntfiT any thing unfavourable to.those measures when he pro ._ reed others, .which he eonsidened would operate a preventive, emeatead of n remedy for outrage. Various petitions were to be found upon their Journals, pointing out, in much stronger teems than he had presumed to use, the defects of the police in Ire:and. One of these, flows the county of Galway, also al 1-aeed to the means by wlaich they were to be removed. He et het:edit no man would object to the proposition that an effec tive police in Ireland was desirable. He proposed this mea • SU7.,' to the House as the opening of a new era for that country. By it he hoped to prevent the necessity of keeping up the large miiitary establishment there, and of employing military force urea all occasions; which /it was so desirable to avoid, unless in Gales of open insurrection: With these views he confidently pr.:hosed - the second reading of the Bill. flee H. PARNELL agreed as to the defects of the present system, and admitted that they had even been greater than stated. He thought, however, that Government, perhaps, from the circumstance or having eonquered Ireland, were too prone to call in the military. The great fault was, that there was be ' vt,xn the Government and the Irish counties no regular organ cf communication, such as the Lords Lieutenant in England and tkotlasd. He merely suggested this defect, however, and weeeld rot venture to point out a remedy. He complained that aahertain portion of the Magistrates acted very improperly in s ee i ng a profit of the cases which came before them, and em :eying the people in doing gratuitous work for them. Some of tee Magistrates, too, were au much interested in the holding of :co and the paying of tithes, that they were supposed to be ac cassary in fomenting the disturbances. The people felt the neces- city of the law, and it was felt too in thecollection of them-Jenne. Still he thought it wrong at once to appoint armed constables by the Executive Government, which was in fact a military polin. It would be better to assimilate the police of Ireland as much as possible to that of England. It was not fair to blame thegrand juries, for they . had much to do in little time ; and of this the ap pointment of tne constables was only an inferior matter. He thought a better course than that provided - for by the present measure would be to give the Magistrates a greater power in the appointing and the paying of constables. If the object of the motion were to recommend the appoinahent of an auxiliary police to 'assist the persons now acting as the regular Ipo ice, he should give it his most cordial support, as he con ceived that such a measure would be productive of the most salu tary effects in Ireland. But the present Bill would, in his opi nion, produce quite a contrary effect. The Hon. Bart. proceed ed to contend, that this Bill, if carried into a law, would have the effect of disgusting that portion of the Magistracy who now discharged their duties efficiently, and of making them, in many instances, absentees. Indeed he could, if necessary, mention the names of persons upon whom this effect was likely to be produced. He next objected to the Bill, upon thb ground of the expellee which it would inflict on the difierent counties. The salaries of the chief constables and the petty constables would altogether amount to a charge of between 3,0001. and 4,0001. a year upon each county, while the present charge did not exceed 7001. or 8001. a year. He thought that, under all circumstances, it would be most advisable to refer the Bill al together to a Committee up stairs. By this means all the ob jectionable parts might be rejected, and the whole measure so remodelled as to effectuate all the beneficial effects which were contemplated by its enactment. Mr. PLUNKETT wished to offer a few observations. With respect to the principle of the measure, and the necessity of some alteration being made in the system of Police, he thought there could be no objection. He had had an opportunity of conversing with many t persons interested in the state of Ireland, and he had never yet met with a person who, speaking candidly and fairly, did not admit that some alteration in the state of the Police was necessary. Whether the measures proposed by the Right Eon. Gentleman were exactly those which were best calculated to improve the Police, was for the House to consider. His Right Hon. Friend had already stated that the system now pursued in Ireland was an extraordinary one, and that the ob ject of the present measure was to do away with the necessity of extraordinary measures. His lion. Friend had said, that this measure might be termed an unconstitutional measure. In that opinon he differed from him entirely. No new office was created, and no new.power was given. He could at least say that no'systein of appointment could be more injurious than the present system of appointment in Ireland. It was, indeed, to use the language of the Gentleman who had last spoken, lite rally a job. The mode now recommended was to place that appointment in the hands of the Lord Lieutenant. It was cer tainly possible that abuses might creep in untigr this system, yet he thought it as little liable as any other that could be suggested. The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last was mistaken in supposing that the provisions of this Bill made it imperative on the Lord Lieutenant to elect new Magistrates. Upon the subject of ex pense also he differed from the Hon. Baronet. The expense which lie imagined would be-incurred by thepresent system would • be that which he would now state. Supposing that in each ha cony there would be required a chief constable, then taking 250 Chief Constables, at 1301. each .- 1:32,500 5000 Common Constables 351. each - 175,000 4 Inspectors, 5001. each - - 2,000 10 Police _Magistrates, 8001. eadir - 8,000 X 217,500 Under the present system the expenses were as follow :—During the last year the expense of— Baronial Constables - - - £28,907 Extra Police ' - . . 102,113 Revenue Police - - 23,104 Military Police - - 24,550 £178,674 The account this stated would leave a difference of about , 40,0001. The expenditure was greet in the present instance, and would not be much greater then. There would be a saving, too, according to the operation of the Bill in the morals of the people of Ireland. Ought that not to be taken into considera tion ? He was willing to admit that the assimilation of the administration of the laws in Ireland to that of , England was much to be desired. But the House, when the evil cried for a remedy, could not wait until that could be carried into effect. He thought that a measure like the present Bill would be useful, but any suggestions, and especially from the Right Hon. Baro net opposite, would, he -had no doubt, be received with all proper attention. Colonel FOSTER wished to have some proof of the charge which an Honourable Baronet opposite had made respecting a Magistrate having employed the peasantry to dig his potatoes free. Sir H. PARNELL was understood to say that the fact was notorious. _ General HART contended, that drunkenness was not a pre .valent vice. He would support the Bill, as he looked upon it as a useful one. _ Mr. S. RICE thought where the object was to obtain an equal administration of justice in Ireland, expense ought not to be considered. It was, beyond every thing important that they should see the law equally administered through all Ire land. Then' might Irishmen be proud of their country, and Ireland, instead of being the cause of weakness to England, would be an unfailing source of strength. Ile objected to this Bill, because it did not go to accomplish that which was so desirable; but, on the contrary, went to call forth general in dignation against the public authorities, and thus to dispose the people to evade the law. The law must be enforced tin der all circumstances. No one was more ready to admit this than he was. If they could not enforce the law •by the constable's staff, they must use the bayonet of the military;. if the bayonet proved insufficient, let them call-out the artillery, —break down all opposition,—and enforce obedience to the law. But he called upon them not to have recourse to such severities till they were proved to be necessary, and not to dis grace the Magistracy of Ireland • till it had been proved that there were -just grounds for so doing. This plan went to create three hundred chief constables, - fifteen to each barony, and in all from 4,500, to 5,000 new officers. • Ile objected to combining the character of police officer with any situation whatever connected -with the Revenue. In the present state of Ireland, if they made the police officer an excise man, he would soon be degraded and unfit to act as a public officer. The only person who could tranquilize Ireland was the Chancellor of the Exchequer, by lowering the duties on spirits, which would remove the temptation to which the people in that country were exposed. He did not deny the pro priety of puri4ing the Magistracy of Ireland. From .a paper which he had seen, it appeared that the Magistrates were as one to twenty-five square miles in those districts where no disorders had occurred, and to • the population as one to 5,900 . . In the disturbed counties the Magistrates were as one to seven and a half square miles, and to the population as one la) 3,043. From this it would be seed that the evil complained of in the counties to which he had alluded did not arise from a walt.of Magistrates, as in those parts there was, rather a redundancy. He however contended, that it was not in the ry. proposed by this Bill that that which was a subject of just complaint ought to be remedied. The Right Hon. Secretary of State for the Home Department had said that that system of; police which was established under the Peace PreServalon Bill, it:made per nianent, would degenerate into an abuse, and the objec tion thus urged appeared to him equally applicable to that which it was proposed to give to Ireland .under the present measure. _ _ _ _ _ _ ••••..1.,••• Sir J: NEWPORT boiled the House Would proceed with deliberation, and before they.adopted this measure, look at the efforts made in the county of Longford and elsewhere to effect a Reform, and to determine, when these seemed on the point of being crowned with success, whether this was the timo to adopt a total change of system. If this Bill passed, he begged to aek what security Ireland had that the most respectable members of the Magistracy would remain in the Commission. He was authorised by several of them who were now in Lon don, to say, that they would feel themselves degraded if it passed, and would immediately resign. This Bill was in all its provisions completely at variance with that principle which had ever been regarded as most beneficial to Ireland—that which went to assimilate the administration of law there to the administrstion of law in England. It went to place an insuper able difference between them, and instead of inducing the Gentry to reside at, home, and spend their money there, it gave them new motiXes for alienating themselves, and for veseng their capital elsewhere. He therefore could not vote for the measure. On his conscience he declared that he should feel from the mo ment this Bill passed, with any thing like the provisions which it now contained, he should no longer regard Ireland as his country. Mr. PEEL admitted with the Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir IL Parnell) that it was a defect in •the police of Ireland, that there was not that link of connexion between its Magistracy and the Government which existed in England, by means of the Lords Lieutenants of counties. _ There were, it was true, Governors of counties in Ireland, but they had not the same authority as that exercised by Lords Lieutenants in England. This was an evil to which he should wish to see a remedy :applied. With re spect to the Magistracy of Ireland generally, he had always found it defective ; did reform it as Parliament might, it would still continue defective, owing to the great number of absentee proprietors from the country. However respectable, however active and honest their agents in that country might be, they could never adequately supply the places of the great land ed proprietors. At the same time he should not wish to see the deficiency attempted to be remedied by a ge neral extension of stipendary Magistrates.—(Hear,' hear, hear I)—And k was against this that he had given his . opinion on a former occasion, for he thought that the appointment of stipendiary magistrates in every county would degenerate into abuse.--(Hear, hear.)—Mill, however, he held it necessary that Government should have the poWer of appoint.. ing such magistrates in certain cases, for it would be destruc tive of all law to allow twenty or thirty miles extent of country to be . evithout a magistrate, or, what was the same, with magi strates who did not act. e would suggest to hisH Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Goulburn) that the stipendiary magistrate should be appointed only where there was no resident magistrate, or where he did not do his duty, and that then it should be on the recommendation of the other magistrates of the county.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—Under any other circumstances, he thought that the extension of salaried 'magistrates would be an evil. —As to the general state of the police, it was admitted on all hands- that the system was so bad that something should be done: let the House look to the present state of Ireland in that respect. She had now, not to guard against any external danger, but to protect the a dministration of the law, to support a regular army of 21,000 men, besides 4,000 men ryeomanry corps on permanent duty; and notwithstanding this force, they had this extraordinary fact, that in one year there had been 26 murders committed, and only one of the perpetrators had been brought to justice. As to the expence, that was a considera tion which he would admit had been most liberally viewed on the other side; but it should not be left out of sight, that by the establishment of an effective police the military expence would be likely to be very considerably reduced, It was agreed on all hands that something should be done; now the question was, in whose hands shbuld the appointment of the stipendiary magistrates and constables be placed ? It was suggested on one side, that they be assimilated to the same class in this country. He for one should not object to that, provided it could be effectually done; but he apprehended that it would be very difficult in the commencement. In England the con stables were not paid ; but it could not be expected that at present parties would, be induced to undertake, without salary, an arduous and unpleasant office, such as that of constable must be; and the less so, as hitherto the constables appointed by the grand jury were paid and armed as those who were appointed by Government. There were thus two experiments tried. Constables were appointed by Government, and others were appointed by Grand Juries. But there was a vast dif ference in their effective force in favour of those whom Go vernment had appointed. This was the case, with very few exceptions. The Right Hon. Gentleman then contended, that as the power of appointment by the Government had not hitherto been abused, it was a fair inference to assert, that it was not likely to be abused in future. In conclusion he implored the House not to zeject this measure in its present stage, but to allow it to go into the Committee. It was a plan for amelio rating the condition of Ireland with respect to its police, which all parties agreed required a remedy. Let it go to a Commit tee, and there they might discuss it, for it was not a party ques tion. It was one which arose from a desire to improve the con dition of the country; for before they could with safety reduce the troops, before they could give up the operation of such ex.. traordinary measures as the Peace Preservation Bill, or the In surrection Bill, they should have an improved police, and ha bituate the people to that which was the greatest of all national blessings—a general, unvarying, and impartial administration of justice.—(Hear.) Mr. A BE RCROMBIE objected to the Bill upon principle, and considered it every point of view inadequate to redress the grievances, or improve the condition, of Ireland. He con. sidered the subject altogether apart from political feeling, and was glad when he heard that. the Marquis Wellesley had been appointed to the Chief Governorship of that country. He did not object to the renewal of the Insurrec tion Act, because hehad not then the information to go upon, and he wished to give the new Administration a fair trial.— But he must say that this Bill was calculated to do great harm by increasing the spirit of absenteeship, and lowering the character of the Magistracy of Ireland; one of whom had recently told him, that if the Bill should pass, he would throw up his cemmission. Now was' tto be expected that the respectable Magistrates would allow' themselves to be bearded by a set of constables over whose appointment or conduct, ac cording to the provisions of this Bill; they could have no con troul. He was convinced that, by this provision, all the truly respectable Magistrates would be withdrawn, and that no honest or independent - ran would remain in the Commission. lie had formerly heard it stated that the Marquis Wellesley had pursued the same plan of gnvernment in India as Buonaparte in Europe, and he thought. this Bill was not calculated to re move theimpression, as invent say that the Lord Lieutenant and the people Composted thLt nation, without any intermediate Authority . : On these 'gratin& he thought the Bill ought not to pass into a law.. '" Lord LONDONDERRY observed, that as there was but one feeling that the Police of Ireland, as at present constituted, was inadequate to the exigences of the nation, and as all were in favour of an improved system of Police, there was sufficient ground for the committal of the Bill. He thought the discussion hitherto, as it went, to the details rathelthan the principle ought to have been reserved for the Committee. He disclanned all party feeling on the subject, and was sure that his Right Hon. Friend did not, by the Bill, affect any exten sion of patronage. He contended, therefore, that they might to go into the Committee. Lord ALTHORP stated that his objection being to the principle of the Bill rather than the details, he could state what that objection was in that stage of the Bill. more seasonably than in a Committee. The Noble Lord commented on the various provisionsbf the Bill, which he contended were against the principles of the Constitution ; it was a Bill which ought not to be entertained in a free country. The Right i ffort. CHARLES. GRAN'T, regretted that he felt himself called-on tesoppose the pe-oposed measure of his Right Hon. Friend. The aubject e he observed, was not new, and had been before under the eonsideration of the late Irish Govern ment. ' The grand objects 'undoubtedly, of good Government were the security of property, and the due administration ofjus tice, but it was equally necessary. to provide that neitherOf these objects were procured at the eXpenseesf greater and paramount objects. This, in fact,wits the distinction be4ween an 'arbitrary and a free Government. The House should first ask itself if the evil complained of had been proved satisfactorily -next,. it should inquire, did the remedy now proposed overstep the prin ciple ; and, lastlea had any other less objectionable remedy than the present, been adready,tried ? The object of this pill was to create a sort of armed police, a species of gendarmerie in Ire land ; it would, in fact, place the whble of the country under the control °I an hired Police and a stipendiary Magistracy, tnerely subject to the will of the Lord Lieutenant himself. •As tb the necessity of the measures, they were all agreed, Of the'lla gistracy,of Ireland, ,he wished to speak with the utmost defer ence; certainly many had executed their ditty manfully under particular circumstances of danger; but there were somenvho were the creatures of political patronage,. whilst others were merely political adventurers, and the toolla a most corrupt system of local political 'cabal. These were a disgrace to the. high commission they held. Was this an evil in prin- - ciple or one of practice ? The Howe should shape •thesre medy to the veil. Each,barony was to 'be empowered t ap point its constables froth ten to twenty in number. It wal not iinfrequently that the head of one faction obtained 'a warrant against the head of another', whilst the last had ohtained.a war rant agaiest the former from another magjetrate. Thus. bpth constable appeared; each at the head of his s own party, tosexe-. cite a warrant, one of which must be against law.. The law o was nat present fairly called into execution; then why try any other measure when the legitimate fernedies in existence were not resorted to ? The rem* should be directed to the practice, not, to the' principle. - Thg Right lon. Gentleman_ was therefore bound to' pi ove that no otheratud more legiti., mate mole of remedy, such as the eiclasion of .unworthy per= sons from the magistracy, .vroirebe. ellicient.. 13 looked. back to-the year 1700, and•Totned'he,,trib. complaiEts disseminated as to the constitutioti-ottlie r etwgistracy. Th,? evil :.vas subse quently found to exi4t`lnl7B7.• It was true ti h.i t constable was thus appointed in each barony.---.( A' great noise Was here heard within the House, and h cry of Order ! .Berr, bee- 1") -The Honourable M'esober assured the House this would be found a eptestion - Of . alMostsequal importance to this country as to Ireland.—(lleare,liear !)--In the selection e of the con stables great caution °tight to-be exerted. "By the election of gratuitous constables, Something might be done to engage the people in the support of its own Government. The experiment of the county of Longford was decisive of the possibility of go verning a county by the ordinary constables, who for five years past had been accustomed to take into custody alone the most popular delinquents at a fair or public pattern without' expe riencing any opposition. He objected to this Bill, which, for the offence of.five counties, would place under an interdict the whole 32 counties of Ireland. Was this just or according to the practice of the law of this country, to which the movers of this Bill had affecteno assimilate the mode of their Government in Irelp.nd? There were several reasons why lie should object to the present Bill. His first objection was to be constantly having re course to summary legislativemeasures. In this Manner, for near ly 60 years, the affairs of Ireland had been mismanaged from time to time. They had begun with the White Boy Act, followed by the Gunpowder Act; and inlater times the Peace Preserva tion Act had been introduced. All these things had deeply riveted in the minds of the people of Ireland, that means had been resorted to by his Majesty's Ministers for the Govern ment of Ireland, which dared riot to be resorted to in govern ing England. All this, too, led to a system of espi ona g e and social treachery in the country. To the summary interposition of the Legislature, mid the interferenae of the local govern ment, the Supineness and self-abasemgft of the Country.' fen tlemen of Ireland was to be attributed. Thus the Gentry of Ireland felt aifferently from the Gentry of England, and were not so closely identified with the protection of the subject or the preservation of property. It was confidently anticip at e d in Ireland, that it was ntended by this Bill to supersede the authority of the Magistracy of Ireland. If the High Constable of the county were answerable for the tranquillity of the county, and the stipendiary Magistrate was to be the head of the whole Magistracy of Ireland, would not the Irish Gentry very properly repel the idea that they were to be the subalterns of the 'High Constable and the stipendiary Magistrate in preserving the peace of the county, and refuse to act at all ? This was to place the whole responsibility of the government of Ireland upon the shoulders of the Lord Lieutenant. In addition to this, he ob jected that it proposed to erect by this system of Police above 300 Places, at the rate of 1501. a 3tear, to be filled by a set of men perfectly armed, well disciplined, and versed in the whole tactics of espionage. These were to be under the superintend ence of 25 superintendents, at a much higher salary of course, from their superior respectability ; and these again to be placed under the government of five stipendary Alagistrates at high salaries. Now, however highly he thought of Lord Wellesley, he certainly was not disposed unnecessarily to trust him with such extraordinary powers. It was the duty of the Legisla ture to provide against every . possible negligence or rigour on the part of those intrusted with the reins of Government. Ile thanked the House for its attention, and sat down, assuring them that in subMitting his objections to the Bill, he had done so as Much thrbugh a conviction that it was a duty he owed to this country, as he conceived it to be a duty due to Ireland herself.—(Hear l) Mr. R. MARTIN admitted the highly improper manter of the appointment of the constables in each county ; but so diffi cult was it to proceed with correctness in the appointment of those constables, that he regretted to say, because he had not agreed to a list put into his hands by an Hon. Colleague of his, he had lost above 800 votes upon the occasion of his election. He knew the Irish nation was prepared for the change, and he hoped no obstruction to the Bill would be interposed by any Gentleman acquainted with the real condition of Ireland. Sir N. COLTHURST wished to know why the milder mea sures spoken of by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grant) had not in his time been put ea the proof, since he thought they would have been sufficient ? Something must be done for the Irish Gentry; who were at present blockaded in their own houses by the insolence of nightly marauders and noon-day insurgents ? Mr. GRATTAN opposed the necessity of enforcing the pre servation of the peace by measures so unconstitutional and vio lent. A stipendiary police ought always to be watched with Constitutional jealousy; and in his opinion no necessity had been made out for the adoption of the Bill now proposed by the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland. Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD had expected a very diffe rent conclusion from the arguments of his Right Hon. Friend. Was it to be endured that things were to remain as they had gone on for several months past ?—(Cheers)—or was it to be expected that any good could follow from pursuing the old system of Government, under a different ,modification of the system ? One of the great benefits of the present Bill was, that they got rid of the Peace Preservation Bill to a great extent. The con stabulary of the country was defective in the extreme, and re quired an exprees regulation anew by Parliament. This was one great reason for permitting the Bill to proceed for the pur pose of improving its details in a subsequent stage. He believed little would be done until the magistracy of the country had prepared a constabulary, active, intelligent, and e ffi cient to the universal preservation of the peace of Ireland. In voting for the Bill he did not pledge himself to support all the details of it, but merely supported it with a view to adapt it to the exigences of the occasion, as a boon to the well affected in Ireland. Mr. BROUGHAM apelogised at that hour for entering into the question, when the able, speech of the Right Honour able Member , (Mr. Grant).remained unanswered. He thought, though unconnected with Ireland, that the Irish native should be made aware that, the English Members, as well as the Irish, were attentive to what was going on as to any new re gulation proposed by the Right Honourable Secretary for Ire land, for altering its constitution, if it might be said to have any. He saw no reason for permitting this Bill to go into a Committee, because the objections against it were not found ed on its details, but went directly against the principle.— They should see whether the present system was so radically bad as that it must be torn up by the roots. His principal objec tion to the plan was, that it was to be in perpetuity. No gentle man would seek the office of Magistrate. Under the provisions of this Bill no English gentleman would suffer hiinself to be so degraded. It was a jest to talk of constables under this Act being constables at the disposal of the Magistrates. This Bill also gave a power of levying money which he looked at with much distrust. Reheard no defence offered for this part of the Bill. He could not admit the necessity of the measure after the testimonies borne to the contrary that night with respect to'various districts. It was said that it would prevent the necessity of recurring to tem porary expedients. This was as bad as any of the temporary expedients adopted. lie objected to the Bill as being expen sive, perilous, unconstitutional and unnecessary ; but, above all, it went to perpetuate a bad system. He would therefore move that it be read a second time that day six months. Mr. FITZGERALD and Mr. GRANT explained. Mr. S. CAREW supported the Bill. Mr. DOM. BROWN said a few words against the measure. An lion. Member tinder the Gallery, whose name could not be ascertained, opposed it. Lord EBRINGTON said, it was subversive of a free con stitntion.—The House then divided— • For the Amendment - For the Second Bean - • Majority - The Bill was then read the second time. - ---53 The Mar q uis i(l,io66KiiEfißY, in conseqiience of the lateness of the hour, declined bringing on further discussions upon the Corn Importation Bill, and fixed the Report for 3londay. The West India Trade Bill, and the Colonial. Trade Bill, were read the third time and passed. ILL-TREATMENT OF ANIMALS RILL, Mr:R. MARTIN moved the third reading of the 111-treat ment of Cattle Bill. Mr. MONCK moved, as an Amendment, that it be read. a third time that day six months. Mr. SCARLE fT opposed the Bill, not because he did not concur with the Hon. Mover, in disapproving of the ill-treat ment of animals, but because the oftencei propOsed to be pun ished by this Bill were of too vague and indefinite a nature to become the subject of criminal animadversion. Mr. lIOLFORD recommended the Iron. Member to with **draw his Bill. Mr. R. MARTIN expressed his determination to persevere in his moticin. • The Gallery was Bleared for a division, and strangers were not again admitted ; hut we understood that . the Bill was read a third time and passtd wiihout a division. Adjourned at HALF-PAST ONE O'CLOCK. CITY, FRIDAY EVENING? In the e Stitish Funds scarcely any transfers have been made, and very few transactions have taken . Vlace in Consols for the Account. They opened at. 801 and did not vary in the slight- ' est degree during the day. Many of the Gentlemen on the Stock Exchange express their surprise at this extreme dullness, but if they reflected with impartiality on the present slate of public affairs, their wander would very soon cease. The Eritish Islands are of small compass, and within themselVes they con.- lain very few of those ma; ters, which in the present day are denominated Wealth. Their natural pyoperty consists in their favoured situation, and in the public virtue of their inhabitants. --During _a long contested war, individuals have acquired great riches, but the nation itself has been loaded with an into lerable debt. By the restoration of a general peace she has been deprived of the advantages gained by her, as the common bar rier of Europe, and left with an immense debt incurred for the benefit of th.legitimate sovereigns of Europe. England is rapidly falling from the high elevation- which she had reached during the late war, to that station in Europe which, from nature, she must hold Eluting a period of peace. She is, how ever, left wit:t this debt. She is under all the disadvantages of warfare, vichout reaping any of its benefits and glories. Those who at present exist on corruption have now only one thread to hang by, and that is the hope of a bad crop. Of this event, however, them is not the least chance, and an abundant har vest will in every probability give to the industrious that sta " tion in the nation to whicliby their virtues they are entitled. Under the present system, 'no man can acquire by labour the common necessaries of life either for his family or for himself. —Commerce is so much depressed that ,no price current from any quarter of the world offers to Englishmen any thing but loss, ineither the importation or exportation of any arti cle that is necessary for the comfort of the human race.— The state if agriculture is generally calamitous. In many counties thenecessary expences of farming consume the whole produce of the land, and the power of paying either rents or tithes is beominc , daily more uncertain. The property of the middle clasms of society fast disappearing, and unless some effective meisures be quickly applied, the worst consequences can only he expected from the present unnatural state of affairs. 'What is wafted is, to give a proper direction to the energy of her inhabitants; but nothing great or beneficial can be ex pected frommen who live on hope, and exist politically on ex pedients antichances.—(2lforning Chronicle.) FOREIGN INTEWLIGhNCE. ODESSA, MAT 12.—The accounts from St• Petersburgh say nothing as to war or peace. It is said that the result of the negociations of Our Cabinet with the Courts of Paris, Berlin, London) and Vienna is now known. These negociationst which were carried on at Vienna by M. de Tatischeff, and at the other Courts by the Russian accredited Ministers, had for their object, to ascertain what would be the conduct of those Powers in the event of war between Russia and Turkey. The current report is, that the Cabinet of London, although objecting a little to UM projects of our Court, proMised neutrality ; that the Court of Vienna,' always supposing there would be no war, gave its assent but upon cer tain conditions, and only promised neutrality iu the event of the Porte rejecting the Russian Ultimatu►n. That the Courts of Paris and Ber- lin entered entirely into the views of our Monarch, without making any condition in the event of the arrogance.of the l'otte inducing it to reject our new Ultimatum, and promising in that case to break their relations with the Porte, and recal their Ambassadors. Our Monarch made the same request at all the Courts; the - Cabinet of St.. Petersburgh, faithful to the principles of moderation which regulate its conduct, wishiu4 to secure above all the approbation of its Allies, and at the same time by new negociations tO leave to the Divan the ineans'of preserving peace. The last accounts from Constantinople sWe that the Reis Effendi, who appears at length tO have been convinced that all the Courts of Europe approved of the conduct of Russia, trans' mitted on the 18th April a Note, expressed in much more amicable manner, and verbally pro mised the evacuation of the Principalities. Since that period we haVe received accounts from the frontiers, stating that - the Turks are preparing UP depart. If they keep their word this time , peace will not be interrupted, but hitherto the Divan has not kept any of its- promises ; and it is doubted 'whether the entirely cuate the Principalities, which at any rate-are nothing but a desert. Every thing, however, depends upon a complete evacuation. Some days since, 27 vessels arrived from Col'" stantinople ; several of them to purchase wheat. They have brought us intelligence to the 6th, stating that the Capitan Pacha had been attacked in the waters of Scio, by the United Greek squadrons, consisting, according to some, of 13° A ' and, according to others, of 200 vessels; Or that two ships of the_ line Nvere burnt, and Or run on shore. At the moment of the departur e of these accounts, the combat still continued be tween the two fleets, and that of the Turks geared to be in disorder. The Capitan P 11 .03 4 ." had completely destroyed the town of Scio, h the Greeks were fighting in the mountains, whe re they expected aid from their countrymen:'' The Sultan,irritated by the firmness of the Greeks? has caused to be hung six of the richest Scinte' who. were in prison. • • It is stated that the Sultan has selected Vi ° s of the Boyars frOm Moldavia and Wallachia , a a Hospodars, and that. the others are to be detaine as hostages. It appears that' the Divan wishe ote fulfil in its own manner, and one after the othe r ' the conditions of our Ultimatum. STUTTGARDT, MAY 30.—Notwithstanding all the P 7,4 fic news of Vienna, we , do not believe here in a sl.: t ' ss ia re-establishment of direct communications between and the Porte, nor even in the' maintenance of p eace. ; - f There are Motives for doubting much the sincer it Y,o some of the Turkish Ministers in the dispositions tv l ",,, have been announced for some time. The entire eva(o o , 'tion of Moldavia and Wallachia its also doubted. i t is t l i i e deed said that a momentary success has been gained by party of Lord Strangford ; intrigues of the Seraglio hav e d , ; put in action, with respect to which we are promised detsiaro and other news are announced as likely to transpire soon , bably of the utmost importance. SPAIN. , „ re ' MADRID, MAY iB.—The following 11.,te55,4 • tc, has been addressed by'the Cortes to his 111.1je' - respecting the situation of the country : ere' " SIRE—The Representatives of the Spanish Nation ass • bled in Cortes for the present year, 1822, are overcome " grief at the prospect of the dreadful evils which afflict the collo °. ' The Nation has honoured them with the greatest confident' confiding to them the care of its destinie•, and they would $:; themselves unworthy of so high a faiour; if they did no t 1 0 their voices to the august Throne of your Majesty, in ( nsce unveil to the Constitutional King. the dangers which V e this heroic nation. ' 44 These dangers are frightful, alarming, and reO l f re t l; prompt remedy—not that the Cortes think the liberty °• ro g• country is endangered—it rests upon an eternal and Irr e pod, able foundation—but they v - • - uld avoid that effusion of iota ° those violences and disasters, which; while they do not 011 'the benefit of those who provoke them, will cover the SPs .soitwith consternation and grief. " Your Majesty is aware of, awl Co r tes have not forgot' ten, those troubles which in different ways have lately agq* no the nation. At first they were regarded as movements ~°,,sei mportance, and of the nature of those which are always r"tteriY quent on great political changes. But experience has 1)1 „ 0 1- aught us, that they were the sourcza of more violent c°,„ . ` o lteLl sions, and we have'been cruelly punished far having upon them with indifference, is . to le, a The language of truth is the only one which oug..- addressed to Kings Who reign by the law • and who, bins always in their hearts, aspire to nothing 'but the haPP' 7l ' fay those they govern. Sire, this heroic nation is a lreaill b ioo gued by the continual attacks of wicked men, and by oe r ' ties - . . • they =cooingly: aim at its wise Institutions. ( I ° . ,` fear any attack in this respect. but it is irritated, l e t ' 5 10 perated, and the Cartes ant. the Constitutional XI ' l ' 0, to tranquillize it, to secure its repose, to put ea end t e c tl l P conspiracies which are on foet, and to prevent the twir l-- are meditated. • - Es= her " It is now two years, Sire, since your Majesty, as t -- ; of the people, determined to contribute to their li a Pe ess;'' .„don swore fre.2ly, and of your Own will, to the political Cons ti `eou t of the Spanish Monarchy. Oh the memorable day wit eli e : i 3 rti s Majesty took a step so eminently glorious, all those Sl 7 t - g ; , who love their Icing and their liberty delivered therns el ' e ete‘ l ", to the most flattering hopes . ; an event, as grand as nal few astonished Europe,- overthrew the enemies. of m orden t Liy to compresesed,the fiercest passions. Who was not then 't D es! , believe that it was the moment the best chosen, and eh , , ran' , combined, to secure for ever the felicity, the glory, "' A ° t o 17° iri deur, and the power of the nation, which far fro expiring and in despair? But, Sire, we are, alas ! very" e-'n ; pre' having reaped the Avantages which that happy morn mised us: . n g th e " Soon was developed the dreadful design of a die, progress of liberty and intelligence—the most innocent - d t h e most legal assemblies were denounced as criminal, an trod most illustrious Patriots were persecuted with deadlY l' u ioess the design was formed of raising the new system on tile,: o tten Nundation of the ancient one, and ivith its old anu eis rell ; materials the Government adopted a slow and torturoa,..s oion,; the plissions were called into action , foreign nia9 ll : l ,„ ss were at 'work 'among us, aid by inflaming men's nlateent covering us with suspicions , it has brought us, w l io etle' able rapidity, to the situation in which we are now pant But this is not the time to relate the ;History of our t he , ' fortunes ; let us pant out those whicli threaten us, trac l'sf" causes, and propose a remedy for tlikm. alarming stem Siardev, advance edistrust.Spanish w it sTo N h iast much i d on i s , t mt on ar s i e st inn e e i fl i s l as gae a C o cpx n ras : typ Eliei t t u or t s t o he rf i:00 1 1 1 minds ;-.,it gains daily strength, in consequence of