The Sun. — London, England, 1832-02-07 00:00:00

he recollected as if it were but yertet ilsy, when, night after night, Hon. Gentlemen came to the House to ask for leave of absence in consequence of the disturbed state of the country. In particular, he rememb'red the Hon. Member for Thetford, in a short speech, urging that the most vigo roue efforts should be taken, and saying—" one little week more, and the country may be saved ? but if we do not act promptly, and if there is not force sufficient to subdue the disturbed state of the country, I tremble for the dis turbed state of the country, and for the ave - ul responsi bility of the Government." His Right Honourable Friend had then gone on to charge the Government with a great augmentation of expenditure in other ways. But let the House look at the way in which this had happened. The expense of the Rideau Cansl had been 336,750/.—.an expenditure which, whe ther right or wrong, had not, at all events, been incurred by the present Government. Then there was anothe r item of 162,0001. for Windsor Castle and Buckingham House ; which, in like manner, was an expense entailed by the last Government. Another expence which did not belong to the present Administration, was the sum of 438,0001., being the charges of the Civil Government ; to which was to ho added the expence of the Coronation. With respect to this he might remember, that last year it had been stated to the House, that it was confidently ex pected that the expenditure for that ceremonial would not exceed fifty thousand pounds, being one-fifth of the amount of the previous Coronation of George IV. When that statement was made to Parliament, he believed that some gentlemen were fearful that the smallness of the amount would lead to a ceremonial unworthy of the Ina portanae of the occasion ; while others expressed their ap prehensions that the sum named would not be adequate to cover the expence. He was, however, happy to think that those who had attended in Westminster Abbey had felt that there was nothing deficient in the way of proper respect to the dignity of the Crown and the honour of the country ; and it now afforded him great pleasure to be able to announce, that on the estimated 50,0001. there had been a saving of 7,0001., the sum of 43,0001. being the whole expenditure on the occasion. —(Cheers.) In ad dition to these instances, the Government had last year paid 27,0001. for by-gone law expenses in Ireland, and 1 6,000/. for a service that was not likely again to occur—he meant the compensation money that had been paid to Messrs. Lecesne and Escoffery ; from all which it would appear, that instead of there being a deficiency of 600,000/., as stated by his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. G. Dawson), the gross amount of these extra charges was no less than 1,030,000/. under the head of items, not in any way belonging to the ordinary expenses of the year, and with the greater part of which the present Government had nothing at all to do. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dawson) had alluded to the reductions made by the former Government. He admitted that the former Government made very considerable re- ductions, but that was one of the reasons why the present Government was entitled to greater credit, inasmuch as their reductions were made in a more limited field than that possessed by their predecessors.—(Hear, hear.) He would tell the Right Hon. Gentleman, however, what were the reductions made by the present Government. They had not applied themselves, in the first place, to the cutting off the salaries, or reducing the offices of the lower grade of public servants. They bad, at once, applied their reductions to four great Parliamentary offices, the abolition of which materially affected the influence of the Crown. .--(Hear, hear.) They had abolished the office of Vice- Treasurer of Ireland—of Lieutenant-General of the Ord nance—of Clerk of the Deliveries of the Ordnance—and of the Postmaster-General of Ireland.—(Hear.) They began, as he observed before, with the higher offices, just as the House itself began by removing the Government ; and, having abolished those Parliamentary offices, they then proceeded to the lower and less important. He held in his hand a list of the offices reduced, and he would read a few of them for the satisfaction of the constituents of Hon. Members, even at the risk of fatiguing the House. They had reduced the Auditorship of the Civil List, the Treasurership of the Military Gollege, the Treasurership of the Military Asylum, the Resident of the Post-office, and sixty smaller offices in the Post-office in England and Ireland ; the King's Stationer in Ireland, two Commis. sinners of the Navy Boatd, two of the Victualling Board, the Superintendent of Transports, the Paymastership of the Marines, and seventy•one persons connected with the Dock-yards receiving salaries from 6001. down to 601. a year ; they had reduced one Inspector of Stamps in Cum berland, and one in Lancashire, connected with Man chester; and they had reduced one Receiver-General in Scotland, and forty-six persons connected with the collec tion of the revenue in England, besides two hundred and ten other places—(Hear, 'near)—and all this was done be fore the end of January, they coming into office in the month of November.—(Hear hear.) That, he hoped they would allow, was something done in the way of econotny and retrenchment. Then came the question of their own salaries—(" Hear, hear," from the Op position)—and the House would find, without going into details, that taking the whole of the amount paid to the higher offices at 143,000/., they had reduced it by the sure of 21,0001., or nearly one-seventh of the whole.— (Hear, hear.) He did not mean to say that their prede cessors had not effected many reductions worthy of praise, but he called on the House now to give its support to those who had proved themselves earnest in their endea vours to make the greatest possible retrenchments in every department. Going on with the list of reductions he found that they had reduced the expences of the emhassy to Prance and Russia 1,100/. each, that to Portugal 8001., 'turkey 5001., the Netherlands 600/., including the ex . . Pence of two special missions ; the United States 6001., making in all 7,200/., in addition to 5 000/. saved from the expenditure on Consuls.—(Hear, hear.) Acting on the suggestions of the Committee on civil charges, th.-y had also reduced the salaries of many public officers, and struck off the sums paid to others. Among these he might mention the payments made to the Law Officers of the Crown, the King's Serjeants, the Attorney and Solicitor neral, :ind the King's Counsel. Sir CHARLES WETHERELL—Yes, fifteen pounds a Year. --(Hear, and laughter. ) Mr. RICE—It was dune in compliance with the recom mendation of the Committee. Acting under the same sug gestion, they had taken 2,000/. a year from the salary of the Lord Chancellor of Ireland.—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) They had abolished seven offices connected With the Lord Lieutenant and Dublin Castle ; six others, also connected with the Castle, had been materially reduced. They had abolished two Cotnmissionerships of Excise in Ireland, two Commissioners of Stamps in Scotland, and, in addition to this, 2001. bad been struck off the salaries of all Commissioners of public Boards by the present Go verninent—( licsr, bear)—while the expence of the Hack ney Coach office, amounting to 5,524/, had been got rid of, and 6,600/. had been saved in the departments connected with the colonies.—( Hear, hear.) Having thus stated what had been done, and wishing that the Government should, in its claims to the character of economy, be esti mated more by wh a t th e y had d one t h an b y w h at t h ey promised to do, h e would just allude to a few of the reduc tions which were in contemplation or in progress. In the long-room of the Custom-house, the changes in contem plation would have the effect of saving 13,0001. of fees in an expence of 46,00.0/. to the Wilk:, while the saving of the Government will be 3,000/. ; and among other savings connected with the reductions of brigade majors and tary establishments, there was one which he was sure his Ffiend the Member for Cricklade would hear with much pleasure, and that was, that immediate measures would be taken for getting rid of the expence of the Go vernment of Dartmouth.—(Hear hear, and a laugh.) There were also large reductions contemplated by his 'light Hon. Friend the Secretary for Ireland, which he Would not then touch upon, because they would be fully detailed in the estimates. If there were any who were disposed to taunt them with not having done more, he W ould say to them that they had not left the Government the time to do more—(Hear)—and he would ask those gentlemen on the opposite side, who night after night oc cupied the time of House with discussions on the Reform whether even with the objects they had in view, it w i ould not h ave b ee n possible for them to have achieved tuelin all in the course of three week, instead of the months of delay which had already taken place?—(Hear, from the O pposition.) He had only to observe, in thanking the } lou se for bearing so long with the details he found it ne cessary to bring before it, that admitting the statement of the Ri g ht lion. Gentleman, that t ere was a deficiency of 1 61,0001. in 1827 (and he believed that statement to be csrrect,) still the sum of 121,0001., which, after all, was the thole amount of the deficiency of the last year over t uis deficiency of 161,0001. to which he had alluded, was Fore than compensated by the reduction they had been ab le to t ffect on the subject of tallow candler, the duty o n which, and other articles more exclusively used by the P o ur, it was the bounden duty of every honest Government to dispense with as soon as possible. The Right Hon. f `?entleinan concluded by again expressing the determine_ to n of th e G overnmen t t o a pply itself honestly and fairly f: 4 red uc ti on o f th e ex p en dit ure , and sat down amid cheers the Opposition. Mr, A. BARING th oug ht t h a t th e Right Hon. Gentle- F la i who had read a lecture to the House on the subject of : 4tt conduct with respect to the Reform Bill, would do well o move for a Committee to inquire whose amendments aal Whose suggestions and alterations had produced the d",:11f. of whi c h h e com pl a in e d, and which bad stopped the, I carter of economy sod retrencbment,—(litar, bear.) With respect to the comparative economy of the two Ad ministrations, on which the Right Hun. Gentleman (Mr. Rice) had dwelt so much, he (Mr. Baring) thought it un necessary to enter into the question of which was the most economical; but, giving all praise to the present Govern ment, which seemed to have amply fulfilled its duty to the public, in that respect he would merely remind them, with out entering into details, that the Government af the Duke of Wellington had either reduced or abolished aboae four thousand offices during the time it remained in power.-- (Hear, hear.) It must be known by every man acquainted with such matters, that extensive reductions in an expen diture extending through so many branches were not to be carried into effect in a day, and that therefore very considerable gleanings were necessarily left to their suc cessors. The only question was, whether they were not going rather too far, and whether some of the cuttings down in the subordinate departments were not effected at the expence of their efficiency ?—(hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Gentleman bad alluded to the recom mendations of the Committee on Civil Charges, of which he was Chairman. He could only say, that many of the reductions which had now been carried into effect were at the recommendation of that Committee, and that if all their suggestions had been carried into effect be thought there would not be at the present moment a single Government-servant overpaid or unnecessarily retained : and he trusted that the Members of the new reformed Parliament, which would, he trusted, be composed of many of those he saw around him, would have the man liness to do justice to the labours and intentions of their predecessors. While, however, the Government took so much credit for its reductions, it was strange to see it vote away five millions for the Russian Dutch loan with scarcely the shadow of a consideration.—(Hear, hear.) He was quite sure when the Noble Lord at the head of the Treasury came to look calmly and impartially at the un constitutional nature of the proceedings with respect to that payment, that he would see the propriety of a revision of the whole matter, even although he might be upheld by a still larger majority than any which that House had shown itself willing to lend for the advancement of the views of the Government.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Adverting to what had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade (Mr. P. Thomson), he (Mr. Baring) must say, he had never beard a speech in that House from any gentle man holding the same situation, in which there was such a deficiency of those facts and figures which one naturally looked for from the bead of the Board of Trade. The Right Hon. Gentleman had made the better pert of his speech an attack on his opponents, instead of confining himself to those matters of business which more particularly formed the subject of discussion ; and he (Mr. Baring) must say, he thought the Right Hon. Gen tleman might as well have left his squibs and his jokes to anybody else than the Vice-President of the Board of Trade on such an occasion. —(Hear, hear.) He had, in truth, never heard in that House anything more loose than the business part of the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement. —( Hear.) The Noble Lord (Althorp) stated, if he un derstood him aright, the tot►l deficiency of the year was 700,0001., but he expected next year there would be 40,0001. remaining duty on candles, and 75,0001. of the remaining duty on coals, which would go to make up the deficiency. Without, however, going into all the items, he must say he entertained very considerable doubts on the propriety of the Noble Lord's expectations with re spect to the 375,0001. of duty on cotton-wool. The whole of the duty on cotton wool and sheep's wool produced together 482,0001., and how the Noble Lord could calculate on an increase of 375,0001. in the next year, he was at a loss to imagine. He must say he con sidered this tax on the raw material a most objectionable one and calculated to be mischievous to our manufactures. —(Hear, hear.) Tr.a consequence was, the Americans were rapidly gaining on our manufacture of coarse cloths, where printing and pattern were out of the question; and he understood from good authority, that they were already competing with tut in many of the ports of the Mediterranean. He would suggest to the Noble Lord the propriety of allowing a drawback on the expor tation of the manufactured article, if he was determined to retain his duty on the raw material. The tax raised on the home consumption was not felt, and was much the least injurious method of raising the revenue. In addi tion, however, to other sources of increased revenue, the Noble Lord might in a year or two anticipate much ad vantage, looking at the value of money, by making a bar gain with the Bank on the renewal of ins charter. He did not wish to drive a hard bargain, but if be thought if the Noble Lord was to move for a Committee now, he would be in a better condition to realise his views and fulfil his promises to the country. The purpose, however, for which he rose was, to protest against the manner in which the financial affairs of this country have been concluct,d' since the, peace. First, they had a sinking fund of 8,000,0001., then it fell to five, to four, to three, and now they had none at all; but, on the contrary, a deficiency of 700,0001. ; which the Hon. Member for Middlesex wished might soon be a million ; and if things go on as they have done, he was likely very soon to have his wish.—(Hear, and a laugh.) He trusted that some time or other the country would have a Government bold and honest enough to take a manly tone on the subject of the National Debt, with a view of providing some means for the peaceable and effectual redemption of the people from its weight. He hoped to see a Government which would adopt that honest and straightforward course, in prefe rence to the skulking, cowardly, and disgraceful plan, followed by all Governments since the peace, of esta blishing their reputation on petty reductions and miserable expedients instead of trying to master the debt. He enter tained not the slightest doubt, that if the Parliament and the people of this country could have imposed upon them selves even a moderate degree of self-restraint, the debt, instead of being of its present enormous amount, would have been in a fair and promising course of reduction. If the sinking fund, so judiciously created for the liquidatio❑ of the public debt, hail only been preserved to the present moment, we might have looked forward at no distant time to see a considerable portion of the debt reduced, instead of being, as they were, in utter despair of any approximation to such a state of things. Had that degree of restraint been exercised which our circumstances called fur, the debt would now have been assuming the shape of a limited annuity ; but now it was becoming nothing less than a perpetual annuity. In making these observations, he begged it to be understood that he meant not to cast any special or individual blame upon the present Adtninistra- tine ; for every successive Government but yielded it- self too readily to the unreasonable demands which put a stop to the progress of the sinking fond.— ( Hear, hear.) Each party which succeeded to power . . . but tno readily gave the desired answer to the question " What will you de for the people?" No person who came into the Councils of the king seemed able, for a moment, to resist that demand—no Government could stand it. How gross was such an error ! Nothing could be more obvious than that the people were as much inte- . . rested in an efficient sinking fund, which would remove de cisively and permanently the weight of taxation, as they couldVossibly be in the removal of immediate and tempo rary pressure. The example of the United Srates' Go vernment ought to stand before our eyes, which by a per severance in the system that we unthinkingly and iinpro vidently rejected, were now in a situation which presented the close prospect of the total removal of debt. He was perfectly aware that the sentiments he was expressing were unwelcome in that Hou*e, and unpopular out of doors ; but he trusted that the liou,e would recollect that he had ever been consistent; that he had seldom supported the repeal of any tax, fur there was scarcely any instance in which he thought the circumstances of the country could at all justify such measures ; as, in his judgment, the first duty of the House and of the Government was, at all haz irds, to support the credit of the country ; and as the most effectual means of doing so, to continue the existence of our efficient sinking fund. Mr. T. DUNCOM BE really thought those who the other night gave a vote in support of Government might have been spired the lecture which the Right Hon. Gen tleman who last spoke had thought proper to read them. He thought it due to himself and the other independent Members of that House, who formed the majority on the occasion to which he alluded, to declare that be never witnessed a greater violence done to common sense and reason, than had been done by the lecture which the House had just heard.—(Heir, hear, bear, from several parts of the House, but from one Hon. Member in a very marked manner.) He was not accusing that Hon. Mem- her of any thing like sense or reason.-J-(Great laughter.) He must readily admit that they would have had but small claims to common sense or reason,if they could doubt for a moment the truth or justice of the lecture which the Hon. Gentleman had thought proper to read them. He, for himself, begged, once and fur all, to deny its application or ju.tice. Many Hon. Members were induced the other evening to support the views of gentlemen opposite by the speci•ius professions of economy and retrench. ment ; nothing could have been more alluring or more dextrously managed than was the motion of the Right Honourable Member for Harwich—it was a deep-laid scheme to trip up the Government, and it was with great regret that be saw the friends of economy fal into the trap which bad been so artfully baited for them. It was obvious to a majority of that House, and he believed now to a very large majority of that House, that those Hon. and Right Hon. Gentlemen came forward with economy on their lipe at a time when nothing was flirt! er from their hearts ; they stood before the House with a proposition on the Russian-Dutch loan in their hands, but with the dread of Schedule A before their eyes. They had talked much of the necessity of supporting pub lic credit; but, in his humble judgment, the truest mode of supporting public credit would be to maintain its ho nour abroad as well as at home, and not allow it to recede from the position it had hitherto maintained in the scale of European nations. On those grounds he was prepared to justify and vindicate the vote he had given " there or elsewhere"—(A laugh)—he meant to say either in that House or before his constituents. There was no vote which he gave in support of the present advisers of the Crown which it was Rot in his power to look back upon with pleasure. As to the question or discussion with which they were then engaged, he thought he might ven ture to affirm, that no man could complain of the fair, honourable, and manly way in which it was brought un der the consideration of the House ; and he anticipated that, in the minds of all impartial Members, it would be regarded as alike honourable to himself and calculated to give satisfaction to the country.—(Hear, bear, hear.) Mr. HUNT contended that the expenditure, instead of being diminished, was rather increased under the present Government. Mr. ROBINSON was understood to complain that now, after sixteen years of peace, the revenue of the country was 700,0001. below the expenditure. An Hon. Member on that side of the House had seemed to advocate the continu ance of the war taxes, collected under circumstances when the resources of the country were widely different from those in which it was now placed. He seemed to contend that the repeal of the taxes of which he so much disap proved was a voluntary act on the part of each Adminis tration which had adopted any such measure of that nature. Did he overlook this important fact, that taxes were scarcely ever repealed until their collection became impossible? Not that that derogated from the good intentions of the last or the present Government : he gave due credit to both. He was net insensible to the services of the Noble Lord oppo site, or the reductions which had been effected, and pro posed to effect ; but yet it was all the while made conso lation to the country to learn that it could neither raise its revenue nor decrease its expenditure. Ti.e subject with which they were engaged was one of great import ance, but unfortunately that might be converted into a party squabble, which would prove but little satisfactory to the country. Sir C. WETHERELL and Sir R. PEEL rose at the same moment, but the latter gave way. The former said, that he wished to interpose a parenthesis between his Right Hon. Friend and the next speaker. He had not risen for the purpose of making observations similar to those which had fallen from the Hon. Member for Thet ford ; but though he had no intention of imitating, yet he might be allowed to pronounce some opinion on the speech which he had made; and of that he would take leave to say, that instead of being condemned as a lecture, there was not a remark contained in it that was not per fectly just, and in all respects deserved ; for the conduct to which it alluded was one of the most daring breaches of the privileges of the House of Commons that he had ever known committed. The Noble Lord had intimated to them that he should find it necessary to introduce an Act of Parliament to legitimatise the affair of the loan. How would those Members look who found themselves called upon to support that Bill, when they remembered their vote of the other night pronounced that the pro ceeding was in itself legitimate, and stood in no need of the sanction of an Act of Parliament ? Would the Ministers call upon their friends to blow hot and cold ? Honour able Members opposite had talked of falling into a trap; but he rather thought it would be found that the supporters of Ministers bad fallen into a trap which their leaders had prepared for them. There was a question which he wished to put to the Noble Lord opposite. Did lie mean to intro. duce two Bills or one ? In his (Sir C. Wetherell's) opi nion a second Bill—one of indemnity—might not be un necessary. Surely it must be very much opposed to the feelings of the Noble Lord to call upon the Law Officers of the Crown to eat their own opinions. When the Bill of Indemnity was brought in, he should carefully look to it' preamble and details for an explanation of the grounds on which it rested. The Minister had himself confessed that his majority on the subject of the Russian Dutch loan had been dragged through the mire. The Noble Lord (Althorp) shook his head : he did not agree in that propo sition; but of this he (Sir C. W.) was sure, that many in the House and in the country would concur in it. He asserted, that that Government was acting disgracefully which first compelled a majority to vote that Parliamentary aid was not necessary, and afterwards compelled the same majority to vote that an Act of Parliament must be brought in. —(Cheers.) Lord ALTHORP said nothing about the necessity for an Act of Parliament ; he had stated only that the actual separation of Belgium from Holland had so altered the re lative position of the parties, that a new convention was necessary, which in due course would be laid before Par liament. Sir R. PEEL began by observing, that he should not be diverted from examining the real state of the finances of the country by the excursive speeches of the two Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite, the Member for Limerick and the Vice-President of the Board of Trade. He doubted much if the people out of doors would be satisfied on a question of this sort with crimination instead of explana tion. He admitted at once that it could form no just ground of charge against a Government that a preceding Administration had m ide such large reductions that the scheme of economy could be carried no farther ; though he was justified in taking that acknowledgment by the other side as an acquittance of the Government of the Duke of Wellington, and an answer to all the reiterated and groundless accusations of extravagance and want of sym. pathy with the sufferings of the people.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Member for Limerick said, " Only give us time, am' we will nevertheless make farther reductions" So had said the Government of the Duke of Wellingto n _ _ _ and if time had been allowed, the people woukl have found That the list Alinistry, although they might talk less about it, was at least as anxious to save the public money as the present.—(Cheers.) The Duke of Welling ton's Cabinet had not made all the reductions at once, because it thought that this species of Reform, like others, to be safe, ought to be graditil.—(Hear, hear.) It was certainly to be regretted, that when, after it had appeared that the last73linistry had done so much that their muccessors could do nothing more, un just accusations, founded upon a supposed want o f economy and sympathy, should have been used to inflame the public mind against a House of Commons which had shewn that it was not inattentive to its duties, and not unwilling to relieve the public burdens.—(Cheers.) He denied that the debate upon the glove manufactures, from the division on which be was absent, had anything to do with the question of free trade, and leaving such mere criminatory matters, he would take for his text the very fair and clear statement of the Noble Lord (kthorp). That Noble Lord had allowed his mistake of 350,0001. on beer, and the frankness of that avowal disarmed all hosti- lily, although he (Sir IL Peel) might venture to express a hope that the accuracies of the present year would com pensate fur the blunders of the past.—( Cheers and laughter. ) The Noble Lord had admitted that in his precipitate state ment in October he was mistaken, both with regard to the past and the future ; but the real charge against the present Government was not its casual Inaccuracies, but that the Noble Lou] having discovered his mistake, hal not openly acknowledged it at an earlier period, and before a paper, which would make it obvious, was moved for by an opponent. For that delay, he must in candour say the Noble Lord had not sufficiently accounted, nor for not hay- ing laid on the table the estimates for the year, in confor mity with a resolution of the House. The Noble Lord bad stated the deficiency of the present year at 695,0001., and expressed his confident belief it would not exist at the close of the approaching year; but did the Noble Lord recol lect that next ye it there would be a loss to the revenue of between 4 and 500,0001. on candles ? Nevertheless the Noble Lord, by his mode of calculating, made out that at the close of next year there would be a surplus of only 162,0001. This prospect, considering the state of Europe, . . and the state of the country (and if that state led to greater domestic expenditure, it should meet with no opposition from him), instead of being satisfactory, was to him (Sir R. Peel) melancholy. The principles avowed by the two Right Hon. Gentlemen (Mr. S. Rice and Mr. P. Thom son) were, however, much more alarming than the ad mitted deficiences of the Noble Lord. They said that, at all events, the people had been relieved ; and that whatever might be the distress of the State in consequence, the coal duty hail been repealed. Did not these two Right Hen. Gentlemen (who were not only Arcades ambo, but on all Occasions eantare parati, although their friends might not he so glad to hear them) recollect that the same argu ment would apply to every tax. The assessed taxes might he repealed at once ; and although the revenue would be deficient in consequence, the country would be relieved, and Ministers might throw themselves on the country. The doctrine, that in spite of deficiencies imposts might be removed, was a dangereus as well as delusive doctrine. --(Cheers.) It might, perhaps, find favour in the eyes of a reformed Parliament ; but the very circum stances of the increase of democratic influence would prevent all long-sighted views of the public interest. —(Hear.) The best mode of relieving the people was to preserve the national faith and credit, and by degrees, to pay off the national debt. The Vice-President of time Hurd of Trade (Mr. P. Thomson) had broached a root extraordinary doctrine. He had congratulated the country on the deficiency of 968,000/., because it was not in fact lost; it remained i❑ the pockets of the people, ready to be extracted on any future occasion. —(Cheers and laugh ter.) This the Right Flora. Gentleman called by a name which he (Sir R. Peel) hoped would not soon be forgotten —the fructifying principle.—(Laughter.) If the Right Hon. Gentleman could but establish that principle gene rally, he would stand a good chance of being the most popular man in the three kingdoms. Every debtor would then only have to tell his too pressing creditor, " Do not give yourself any trouble about your principle or interest ; for you to say that ysu are losing money, is mere delusion ; it is in my pocket, upon the fructifying principle, ready to be extracted upon any future occasion. "—(Cheers and laughter.) According to this fructifying principle, in what an enviable condition were the creditors of the State of Colombia.—(Hear.) Strange it was that the bonds should be at discount, when they were rapidly increasing in value upon the fructifying principle. The Noble Lord had taken a distinction with reference to the B, lgian loan between security and guarantee. Great Britain was not security for the payment, but only a guarantee. If 81. e were compelled to pay it to Russia, it was of no conse quence whether she ever got it back—it was only in the pockets of the Belgians upon the fructifying principle.— (Laughter.) He (Sir R. Peel) protested against adher ence to such a doctrine, as fallacious as it was extravagant, He even doubted the policy of repealing know❑ imposts, even though they might appear, in theory, to be more op pressive—they were often better and less burthensome than untried though plausible experiments of taxation. A•lmitting the anticipations of the Noble Lord, the finan cial condition of the country was far from satisfactory ; but his fears would be much greater if he thought that the Noble Lord was likely to be led away by the fanciful notions of the Vice-President of the Board of Trade re garding the fructifying principle.—(Cheers.) He earnestly hoped that the Noble Lord, in his desire to attract popu larity, would not sacrifice the permanent interests of the country.—(Hear.) Mr. P. THOMSON explained. Mr. JAMES said that the present Ministers asked for 50,0001. on account of the late Coronation, and the expences were less than that sum. But the former Government had a grant of 250,000/., and yet they ex ceeded it on the preceding Coronation.—(Hear.) An Hoer. MEMEER was understood to say, that when gentlemen spoke of the stability of the present Govern ment, he could not help thinking of this fact, that on the question of the Russian• Dutch loan they were near being driven from office. He thought that a Government must be very rotten which could be split so easily.—(Hear.) Lord ALTHORP had a few observations to offer to the House in the way of explanation, especially in reference to what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet opposite. The Right Hon. Baronet had very clearly, and with ex cee-ling accuracy, recapitulated the grounds of his (Lord Althorp's) statement, but there was one part of it that he appeared to misunderstand—that which related to the 300,000/• due on malt. He (Lord Althorp) stated, that there was at present a larger sum due on it this year, as tar as we had gone, than there was the last year; and, in fact, that there had been a great increase in the suns due on it, there being 300,0001. due on it now, in addition to the 600,0001. due on the last year, when the total receipt of the malt duty amounted to 900,0001. From that statement he thought he was fully borne out in saying that this would not be a temporary supply. He had not calcu lated on such an increase in the amount in his estimate of the revenue and expenditure last year, and there fore what had accrued beyond his estimate was to be taken as an additional surplus. The Hon. Member for Thetford bad doubted the expectations which he (Lord Althorp) entertained with regard to the duty on cotton, and the grounds also on which he founded his statement with regard to that article. Now lie would just read to the Muse a tabular statement of the importations of cotton wool during the last three years :—There were imported into this country, of cotton wool, in the year 1829, 201 ,797,6561b5. ; 1830, 269,634,7791b5. ; 1831, 283,745,6601b5. The increase, therefore, in those three years was from 201,000,000165. and upwards, to 283,000,0001b5. and upwards, showing an equal ten ' ' • dency to increase in each of those three years. The calcu lation which he (Lord Althorp) had made was upon the amount imported last year, observing at the same time that it might be possible that the duty which had been im posed upon it would act in some degree as a check upon importation this year. From all the information, how ever, which he had received on the subject, he was led to b.lieve that the increase in the amount of importation would be as great this year as it had been last. He thought that under such circumstances the amount which he cal culated upon as likely to be derived from the duty on this article was a very fair and moderate one. He had been asked by Hon. Members opposite why the estimates had not been laid on the table of the House before this time. He begged in reply to say that the estimates for the threeierviees would he laid on the table of the House in the evening. He was aware that such a course was not in accordance with a resolution of the House, but it should he recollected that this was as early a period as the estimates had been usually placed on the table of the House in any previous session of Parlia ment. He wished to add an obsery Aka in reference to a statement which had been often made for several years by Hon. Members who took an interest in the finances of the country, namely, that it would be desirable that we should commence them at an earlier period of the year than we do, and for this reason;—that according to the present practice we were in the habit of voting estimates after the money had been spent. His Right Hen. Friend at the head of the Admiralty had with that view, last year, in calculating the estimates for the Navy, so arranged them as to carry them in the commencement of the ensuing April. He (Lord Althorp) had now to state that it was the inten tion of his Mdjesty's Government that the financial year sh uld for the utore commence at the beginning of April Hear.) The estimates, therefore, for the present year had been prepared in two divisions; the first fur the pre sent quarter, so as to bring them up to the Ist of April, and r he other for the lour quarters of the year then ensuing. The whole Navy estimates for the year would be laid before the House this evening, the Arley and Ordnance estimates for the quarter up to the Ist of April, and the remaining estimates for those services would be laid before the House with the least possible delay. Mr. BARING would take that opportunity of asking when it was intended to move fur a Committee respecting the Bank charter? Lord ALTHORP was understood to say that the ques tion would be brought before the House as soon as the bu- siness which now occupied it woulil .Ilow time for the con sideration of another subject so important. In answer to a question from Mr. BURGE R - _ _ Lord PALMEIiSTON slid that, under the convention lately entered into between this country and France, for the suppression of the slave trade, the consular agents of France in several ports would be emp .veered to constitute tribunals, before which, questions arising out of the con- vention, and affecting French subjects should be tried. But the Government of France, on consulting French juris consults, had come to the conclusion, that French subjects could not be tried, under any treaty, by foreign tramnals. Sir G. CLERK did not think that the alteration which the Noule Lord proposed to make in the financial year would answer. But it would have the eff.ct of rendering more difficult any comparison of the fi nancial state 01 the country in a par iicular p..riod of any future year with that of the correspondaig period in any past year. Lord ALTuoar's reply was wholly inaudible in the gallery. Mr. HUME thought that the arrangement of the Noble Lord would be useful, provided that the estimates were laid upon the table by the 15th of January. He thought that it would be a very good plan to date the estimates from the Ist of April, if they were laid upon the table two or three months before that.—(Hear.) After a long conversation across the table between Mr. GouLimas and Lord ALTHORP, the report was brought up, and a Bill founded upon it was ordered to be brought in on Wednesday next. BRISTOL CUSTOMHOUSE. Mr. HUME asked whether the Government had under taken any, and what, expellee for the restoration of the Custom-house and Excise-offices at Bristol ? Mr. RICE said that the Government had had no com munication on the subject from the heads of the depart ments of Custom and Excise at Bristol. Mr. HUAIE hoped that, before the public should be submitted to any expense, an inquiry should be instituted into the conduct of persons, to whom much of the disturb ances 1 / 1 that city were attributed. Sir J. GRAHAM brought up the Navy Estimates, which were ordered to be printed. Mr. S. RICE brought up the Estimates of the Civil Contingencies, which were ordered to be printed. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a Quarter before One o'clock. A translation, we understand, is announced in Paris of i\liss LANDON'S " Romance and Reality," which, though it at first startled the literary world in France by its singular mixture of passion, satire, and personality, has grown into high favour with our Gallic neighbours, who, above all things, relish what is new. In Vienna c and Leipsic, " R omance and Reality " has f or some time in th e German tongue, two vers i ons hav i ng been rapidly prepared and printed. SUPPLEMENT to the LONDON GAZETTE of FaIDAY, dated MotipAr, FEB. 6. At the Court held at the Palace of St. James's, this 6th day of February, 1832, PRESENT, The King's Most Excellent Majesty in °mina BY THE KING. A PROCLAMATION FOR A GENERAL FAST. WILLIAM R. We, taking into our most serious consideration the dangers with which this country is threatened by the progress of a grievous disease heretofore unknown in these Islands, have resolved and do, by and with the advice of our Privy Council, hereby command that a public day of fasting and humiliation be observed throughout those parts of the United Kingdom called England and Ireland, on Wednesday, the 21st day of March next ensuing, that so both we and our people may humble ourselves be fore Almighty God, in order to obtain pardon for our sins, and in the most devout and solemn manner mend up our prayers and supplications to the Divine Majesty for averting those heavy judgments which our manifold provocations have most justly deserved; and particularly for beseechir.g God to remove from us that grievous disease with which several places in the kingdom are at this time visited : And we do strictly charge and command that the said Public Fast be reverently and devoutly observed by ail our loving subjects in England and Ireland, as they tender the favour of Almighty God, and would avoid his wrath and indig nation ; upon pain of such punishment as may be justly in flicted on all such as contemn and neglect the performance of so religious and necessary a duty. And for the better and more orderly solemnizing the same, We hare given direc tions to tre most Reverend the Archbishops, and the Right Reverend the Bishops of England and Ireland, to compose a Form of Prayer suitable on this occasion, to be used in all Churches, Chapels, and Places of Public Wor ship, and to take care that the same be timely dispersed throughout their respective dioceses. Given at our Giurt at St. James's, this 6th day of February, 1832, and in the Second Year of Our Reign. GOD SAVE THE KING. BY THE KING-A PROCLAMATION. FOR A GENERAL FAST IN SCOTLAND. WILLIAM R. We, having taken into our serious consideration the dangers with which this country is threatened by the progress of a grievous disease heretofore unknown in these Islands, have resolved and do, by and with the advice of our Privy Council, hereby command that a public day of fasting and humiliation be observed throughout that part of the United Kingdom called Scotland, on Thursday, the 22d day of March next ensuing, that so both we and our people may humble ourselves before Almighty God, in order to obtain pardon of our sins, and in the most devout and solemn manner send up our prayers and sup plications to the Divine Majesty for averting those heavy judgments which our manifold provocations have most justly deserved; and particularly for beseeching God to remove from us that grievous disease with which several places in the kingdom are at this time visited : And we do strictly charge and command that the said Public Fast be reverently and devoutly oh served by all our loving subjects in Scotland, as they tender the favour of Almighty God, and would avoid his wrath and indignation, and upon pain of such punish ment as may be justly inflicted on all such as contemn and neglect the performance of so religious and necessary a duty. Our will is, therefore, and we charge that this our Proclamation seen, ye forthwith proceed to the market cross at Edinburgh, and all other places needful, and there in our name and authority make publication hereof, that none pretend ignorance : And our will and pleasure is, that our Solicitor do cause printed copies hereof to be sent to the several Sheriffs of the several Shires, Stewarts of Stewartries, and Bailiffs of Regalities, and their clerks, whom we ordain to see the same published ; and we appoint them to send copies hereof to the several Parish Churches within their bounds, and that upon the Lord's Day im mediately preceding the day above mentioned the same may be published and read from the pulpits immediately after Divine Service. Given at our Court at St. James's, this 6th day of February, 1832, and in the Second Year of Our Reign. GOD SAVE THE KING. NEW SHERIFFS, APPOINTED BY HIS MAJESTY IN COUNCIL FOR THE YEAR 1832. BEDFORDSHIRE.—Thomas Potter WOueen, of Ridgmont, Esq. BERKSHIRE.—Thomas Mills Goodlake, of Wadley-house, Esq. BucgiNcuAsignigg.—Charles Spencer Ricketts, of Dalton house, Esq. CAMBRIDGESHIRE AND HUNTINGDONSHIRE.--Thomas Page, of Ely, Esq. CHESIIIRE.—John Hurlstone Leche, of Cardin, Esq. CUMBERLAND.—Henry Howard, of Corby Castle, Esq. CORNWALL—Edward Archer, of Treslake, Esq. DeguysitraE.—Samuel Shore, of Norton, Esq. DEvoNsiiinu.—John North Woolcombe, of Ashbury, Esq. DORSETSIIIRE.—Sir Edward Baker Baker, of Ranston, Bart. Essgx.—John Thomas Selwyn, of Down-hall, in Hatfield Broad Oak, Esq. GLouc ESTI? RSHIRE.—Robert Canning, of Hartpury, F..sq. HEREFORDSHIRE.—John Freeman, of Gaines, Esq. 11 ERTFORDSIII RE. —Robert Plummer Ward, of Gilstone Park, Esq. KENT.—George Douglas, of Chilston Park, Esq. LEICESTERSHIRE.—Edward Bourchier Hartopp, of Little Dalby, Esq. LixcotxsutgE.—William Hutton, of Gateburton, Esq. MoNmouTnsttigE.—Sir Mark Wood, of Rumney, Bart. NORFOLK._Wm. Lyde Wiggett Chute, of South Pitman, Esq. NORTHAMPTONSHIRE. —Wm. Williams Hope, of Rushton, Esq. NORTHUMBERLAND.—Henry John William Collingwood, of Lil burn Tower, Esq. NOTTINGHAMSII I RE. —Henry Machin, of Gateford-hill, Esq. OXFORDSHIRE.—MichaeI Henry Blount, of Maple-Durham, Esq. 11 lITLANDSHIRL—WiIIiam Gifford, of North Luffenham, Esq. Snaops,llßE.—William Oakley, of Oakley, Esq. SOMERSETSIIIRF..—Sir Henry Strachy, of Sutton-court, Bart. STAFFORDSHIRE.—Sir Thomas Fletcher Fenton Boughey, of Aqualate-park, Bart.. CouNTY OF SO (ITU A M rroN.—Jervoise Clark Jervoise, of Ids worth-park, Esq. SUFFOLK.—Joseph Burch Smith, of Stoke-hall, Ipswich, Esq. Sugar:Y.—Miles Stringer, of Effingham, Esq. SUSSEX.—Alexander Donovan, of Framfield-park, Esq. WARWICKSHIRE. —Edmund Meysey Wigley Greswold, of Mal vern.hall, Esq. WILTSHIRE. —Sir Edmund Antrobus, of Amesbury, Bart. WORCESTERSIIIRE.--JOhll Joseph Martin, of Ham-court, Esq. YORKSHIRE.—Richard York, of Wighill-park, Esq. NORTH WALES. ANGLEsEa.—Sir John Williams, of Tyfrey, Baronet. CA RNARVONSIIIRE.-John Rowlands, of Plas-tirion, Esq. De.sannisniaK.—Edward Lloyd, of Cefn, Esq. FLINTSIIIRE.-Sir John Hanmer, of Bettistield Park, Baronet. MERIONETIISUIRE.-Williazn Turner, of Croesor, Esq. MONTGOMERYSHIRE.-Sir C. F. Jones, of Broadway, Knight. SOUTH WALES. BREcaNsimte.—James Price Gwynne Holford, of Buckland,Esq. CA RDIOANSH I RE.—llenryLewisEdwardsGwynne, of Lanley,Esq. CARMARTHENSIIIRB.—John Lavelyn Puxley, of Lletherllestry, Esq. GLamoßGANsHlßE.—Frederick Fredericks, of Duffryn, Esq. PEMBROKESHIRE.—David Davis, of Carnachenwen, Esq. RADNORSHIRE.—Thomas Evans, of Llvmbarried, Esq. TIIE RECORDER'S REPORT. Yesterday the Recorder made a report to his Majesty of the prisoners in Newgate capitally convicted at the last December Sessions-viz., William Fear Parrott, aged 44, cutting and maiming; Thomas Holmes, 20, horse-stealing; John Jones, 27, Samuel Connix, 20, John William Butcher, 22, William Scott, 36, and Robert Springett, 17, stealing in dwelling-houses ; Wil liam Bailey, 32, Deniston Angus, 25, Mary Elton, 23, William Anthony, IS, James Brown, 19, Arthur Poole, 19, and William Gibson, 20, house-breaking; William Weedon, 27, and Maria Darling, 25, highway-robbery; Thomas Perry, alias Williams, 25, uttering counterfeit coin, having been before convicted ; and William Williams, 54, sheep-stealing. Also, of those convicted at the last January Sessions.-viz. William Brock, 19, William Glassburn, 27, Edward Roger Failing, 19, Thomas Francis, 33, stealing in dwelling.houses ; John Barrett, 24, stealing letters in the Post-office; Elizabeth Owen, 26, uttering counterfeit coin, having been before convicted ; James Moore, 22, burg_ lary ; Robert Privett, 19, George Lancaster, 14, Benjamin Seth, 32, Edward Trude, 2S, and Joseph Mackings, 23, house breaking ; William Randall, 22, and John Harris, 19, highway_ robbery; Robert Lewis, 25, forgery; and Henry Wells, 55, and William Freeman, 40, cattle-stealing; all of whom his Ma,. jesty was graciously pleased to respite during his Royal plea sure, except John Barrett and Henry Wells, who are left for execution on Monday next. Venice, as she existed in her earlier days, when all connected with her partook of the spirit of romance, and her very Government, mysterious, solemn, and haughty, was itself a complex species of romance, has furnished to the splendid imagination of Mr. Cuorx the ground-work of his new production, " The Bravo." The incentives to curiosity were never wanting in the previous Tales of this highly-original writer, but, in the present one, almost every page is the harbinger of some new won der—the vehicle of some fresh excitement. ApIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNAL Mr. Goulburn led on a fistee attack of the finer).- cial management of Ministers last night. " This was (he said) the first occasion in which we had found ourselves with a large deficiency of income as com pared with our expenditure; and that, under the peculiar circumstances that the expectations of the country bad bee❑ raised, to find a different result only throe months antecedently. It now appeared that whereas the Nable Lord opposite had at that period promised us a surplus little short of 500,0001., we found that there was a defi ciency of 700,0001., so that a change in the supposed con dition of our finances to the amount of nearly 1,200,000/. had been effected in the short period of three months !" We had a surplus revenue on the .sth of January, 1831, exceeding 2,900,0001., whereas now there was a deficiency of 700,000/. On this he rung the changes through a long speech. Lord Althorp frankly stated that he had never considered it desir able that there should be a large surplus revenue. He admitted that when he had made the statement of the year's revenue and expenditure, estimating the last quarter by the three quarters which had ex pired, his information had not been carrect. " In the last quarter (said his Lordship) the beer duties expired, and consequently no mention of them did telly occur in the last quarter. This undeuhtedly had led him into an error, as far as 350,000/. lie did not wish to deceive the House. If they thought him in error, he was hound to suffer far it; but never wouL4 Ins attempt to de ceive them. Besides, there was another error into which he had been led, but in which he must take the Right Honourable Gentleman as a particeps er;- minis—namely, the amount likely to amirue from the increased duty on spirits. The Right floaourable Gentleman calculated that at 450,000/. ; and 1.1:. (Mr. G.) was aware that a large quantity of this would falt in the list quarter. Notwithstanding the anticipatioria of the Right Hon. Gentleman, however, the additioral duty produced no increase; but, on the contrary, there was a falling off of 100,000/. in the year; and, thirdly-, a Bill had come in from Canada about the Ri.leau Canal, on which they had not at all calcallat.ll. Bceidas, in , he last quarter there was a great stagnation of trade and difficulty in commerce, which produced a falling off in the revenue. He had stated the grounds of the calcu'aaions on which they had proceeded, and the reasons why those grounds had deceived them." His Lordship then proceeded to notice the effect of the reductions of taxation 1,14 year. The amount of taxes reduced was 1,500,0001.; but from this the 100,000/. derived from additional taxe► was to he deducted, leaving 1,400,000/. Deducting from the amount of taxes reduced, 1,400,0001., the balance of the expenditure over the revenue of 700,0004, had there bee)) no reductions of taxes, the revenue would have exceeded the expenditure by 700,000/. His Lordship, however, candidly admitted that had he not reduced the taxes, the surplus would not have been so great as 700,0001., because the effect of re duction is to add to the produce of the remaining. taxes. In adverting to the current year, his Lord 'hip said the estimates would be considerably lower than last year, and allowing for additional duties, and axes coining into full operation, he anticipated a surplus of 164,000/. Mr. P. Thomson successfully retorted on the former Ministry; their expenditure in building of Palaces, their Rideau Canal, &c. Ile had a right to say, that a large proportion, it nut the whole of the deficiency, of which so much had been said, would not have existed but for claims of that description. "He deplored tire deficiency in the revenue of this year : but certainly such a deficiency was not unheard-of in the history of this country; and the difhreace iretween the present and the former state of things was, that there eras now no concealment.—(Cheers from thi, Ministerial B•nches, answered from the Opposition.) The accounts wtre now stated plainly and fairly—(Renewed cheering)__ they were plainly and fairly put before the public ; and , he desire of the present Government was, that the people should be acquainted with the real state of the public finances. Tire present Ministers did not borrow money, that they might use it in appearing to pay off the national debt—(Cheers)—they did not take money, borrowed from the Bank, and secured at a heavy interea', upon what were called Long Annuities, and them put it down in their ac counts as part of the income received, anti applicable to the discharge of debts and expenses—(Hear, hear, hear)_. they did not attempt any mystification ; they desired that everything should be plain and intelligible.—(ficar.)" Mr. P. Thomson recapitulated the series of miserable blunders respecting spirits and sugar, cora rnitted by Mr. Goulburn, when Chancellor of the Exchequer, and concluded with an exposure of the contemptible meanness of their conduct it the case of the Timber Duties, and the Sugar Bill, when they factiously joined in the attack of their succes sors for introducing measures first proposed by them 'elves. Mr. Goulburn ought to remember the adage, that a man with a glass-house should not throw stones. There is nothing in the way of in consistency in Mr. Baring which now surprises any one. It is an understood matter that he unsays one day what he said the day before; nay, that tee con elusion of the same speech is generally an answer to he commencement. Lest night he thought Mi nisters had gone too far in the way of cutting down officers, while he condemned them for voting away the Russian and Dutch loan with scarcely a shadow of a consideration. We had imaginvd, that •vhatever opinion might be entertained as to continuing the payment, without the urevious sanction of Parliament, there could hardly be any difference of opinion as to the validity of the claim. It might be a question whether we ought, in he first instance, to have relieved Russia of this debt; but having made the bargain, to follow Mr. B.tring's advice now would be a despicable piece of chicanery. Sir Robert Peel displayed a great inclination to be witty at the expence of Mr. Poulett Thomson, on account of his observation, that the defic]eticy was tot caused by an extravagant expenditure, but by caving the money in the pockets of the people. We cannot say that the success corresponded with the inclination. In the case of a people higely taxed as we are, with the embarrassment occasioned by the harassing opposition to Reform, height erred by the cholera, the screwing system may be carried too far. " The Noble Lord (said Sir Robert), by his mode o f calculating, made out that at the close of next year there could be a surplus of only 162,0001. This prospect, considering the state of Europe and the state of the country (and if that state led to a greater domestic expen diture, it should meet with no opposition from bun), in stead of being satisfactory, was to him (Sir it. Peel) me lancholy. The principles avowed by the two Might Hon. Gentlemen (Mr. S. Rice and Mr. P. Tilionsoir) were, however, much more alarming than the admitted defi eiencies of the Noble Lord. They said that, at ali events, the people had been relieved ; and that whatever might he the distress of the State in consequence, the coal duty had item repealed. Did not these twit Right Hun. Gentle men (who were not only Arcades combo, but on all °cot lions cantare parati, although their friends Bright not be so glad to hear them) recollect that the same arguwent would apply to every tax ? The Asseased Taxes might be repealed at once; and although the revenue would he de ficient in consequence, the country would be relieved, and alinisters might throw themselves on the country. The doctrine, that in spite of deficiencies inaposts might be re moved, was a dangerous as well as a delusive doctrine.__ (Cheers.) It might, perhaps, find favour in the eyes of a reformed Parliament; but the very circumstance of the increase of democratic influence would prevent all lung sighted views of the public interest. The test mode of , elieving the people was to preserve the national faith old credit; and, by degrees, to pay off the national debt." If the state of Europe shodd lead to a necessity for greater expenditure, the expenditure must of course be met by increased sacrifices on the part of • lie people. The question is, which course is moat olvisable while we are at peace ? By way of cast• Mg ridicule on the doctrines of the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, that the money left in the pockets of the people would be employed with more advantage by them, in a national point of view, than if extracted with a view to surplus re venue, Sir Robert alluded to the case of Colombia, as if there were the least analogy between the cir cumstances of the two countries. Taxation may be pushed so far as to cripple the productive power o. he country; and, in the long run, it may be more Corpielye, from rkit taken t he advantageous to re ly on the increased ability of ttie i fied, at the by which g advantageousby the tax-g at hee'rel;,l°Ybyrn emplo of yment the the same taxes may become more productive, than to repress the p t he re p s e e o t p a l e re by ve e u x m c o es isy siv a e : e x a o t b i (Li otn