The Sun. — London, England, 1822-04-02 00:00:00

jectionto state that he meant to submit to the House a practi cal measure arising out of the Report. Mr. TIERNEY thought it would be improper to send the Report into the country without stating whether it was the basis of the intended measure. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could only say that it would be a practical measure. Lord A. lIA MILTON said be could perfectly well under stand why all discussion upon the subject was deprecated at piesent. He begged however to remind the Hon. Chairman, that there had, been an Agricultural Committee last Session, of which also the Hon. Member was Chairman. The Hon. Mem ber had net informed the House whether the present was in ..eolliaion with or in confirmation of the former Report; whether the agriculturists were to hope or to despair. It was usual to hear a Report read, or to hear to some account-of it from the -Chairmtut who presented it. There was however but one Mem ber ii that House whoegenerally supported ; Ministers, and who vet ?'poke of the agriaoltural distress in language similar,to that -Which was used out of the Houhe. Ile alluded to the Hon. ''ember for Somersetshire ; and without wishing to offend any alon. Member he must say, that the language in doors on the -subject was very moderate compared to that without them. He ecould not, however, sit down without stating his'perfect convic tion that the security of the Fundholder depended upon the success of the Agriculturist. Mr. GOOCH said, the fittest occasion for discussing the sub ject would, in his opinion, be when the report was in the hands .cf Hon. Members. lie begged to state, hoWever, that his feel -4-dg for the distress-of the country was not less strong than that cfedie Noble Lord: Lied A. HAMILTON explained. Mr. TIERNEY said, that the Hon. Chairman had abused the kit Report.—(A laugh.)—As the House had therefore not -. heard the present Report read, it could not be thought unrea sonable to call upon the Honouiable Chairman to say whether he thought it worthy of approbation or not. It was then ordered, on the motion of the Marquis of Lose- etoostDE knee that the Muse should, on the 22d, resolve itself into a Committee for considering the Report. • Mr. ELLICE said it appeared the Hon. Chairman would snot say whether he approved or disapproved of the Report. He (Mr. Ellice) did not lenove whether, like the former, it was the rumoured.prodUetion of the Right Hon. Member for Chi chester ; but as h i e was convinced that the raising of price and the rectuceion of taxation were, in his opinion, the only two re -medics, he should certainly oppose the former. Tne Report was then ordered to berinted. FOREIGN CORRESPONDENCE. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY brought up papers con taining correspondence with foreign Powers, which were laid .on the table, and ordered to be printed. COLONIAL COMMERCE. Mr. F. ROBINSON moved, that the House should resolve into a Committee to consider our• Colonial Trade acts, and upon the motion being agreed to, - The Right Hon. Gentleman set out with saying, that an ac quiescencein the Resolutions which he should have the honour to propose to the Committee,_ was not calculated in any degree to pledge the Hoose as to what-it 'night think proper to finally ..adopt. But although his present. propositions were few, and easily stated, he felt it his dtity to explain what was his ulti mate object. To those who were so anxious about the Naviga. tion Law, or the principles upon which it was established, for. • -maintaining colonial commerce with the mother country, he could offer positive assurance that nothing more novel in ex tent or operation was intended upon this occasion than was known to have taken place in other instances. The Naviga tion Law was, lie was aware, held by some perions as a thing too sacred to be touched, because by such persons its rigid maintenance was deemed indispensable to the commercial inte rests of the country. But the principle of monopoly which that Act instilled, and which similar Acts had inforced, in other -nations, had been frequently-relaxed, nay, in some cases, to tally ahondoned. Our Government had totally abandoned it in its East India Possessions. At Ceylon and the Cape of Good Hope, such a system was never known, and yet in In dia, in Ceylon, and at the Cape of Good Hope, our commer cial resources' . had been found most richly productive. But the rigid principle of the Navigation Law was insisted upon by its advocates as peculiarly applicable to our West Indira 'Colonies. What, however, was die fact ? Why, that this - rigid principle had been very frequently and materially re laxed in those Colonies. It was found expedient to relax it in the establishment of a free port at Bermuda, where Ame rican as well as British shipping were at liberty to import any . articles of the produce of either country, or which one might feel it as Convenient to purchase as the other to sell. There were other free ports established in our Colonies, in contraven tion of the Navigationleaw ; but almost immediately after the independence afthe United States was established, the wisdom of Parliament was urged to make,a law, allowing a free inter-. change of commodities between those States and our Colonies. Fre.y ports had since been established at the Bahamas, in con-, sequence of its trade in salt; at Halifax also, and at St. John's, New Brunswick. But during the continuance of the late war, 'Abe commerce between our Colonies and the United States was quite unrestricted, because we wanted provisions and lumber' from the UniteeStates, and they wanted•our colonial produce.' ' Through this principle, which was the great regulator of com merce, our colonies had long carried on trade with the United ;States. But as to the system of free trade, which was parti cularly sanctioned by the Acts of our own Parliathent, he would appeal to any enlightened commercial man what must have been the commercial state of this country if those Acts had not passed ? Yet they were all in opposition to the spirit and letter. of ,the Navigation Act. But What would it avail this country at present to insist upon enforcing the Navigation Act, considering the various inlets to our 'colonies which were afforded by the independent States of South America by Cuba, and by:other means, as well as by the free ports established by ourselves in the immediate vicinity or those Colonies ? The free port at Bermudas; for instance, afforded an opportimity for commercial intercourse with our other Colonies, which could not be easily interrupted. But the object which he had in view was to establish a direct and Convenient commerce be . •tween our Colonies and America, instead of the circuitous, in -direct, and inconvenient mode of , intercourse which at present existed. The alterations. which he intended to propose in volved mach less change than might perhaps be expected. His first object would be to endeavour to simplify the laws re lating to this subject, by repealing a great number of usalees and ccntradictory statutes, and by consolidating all the Acts into two, one of 'which would embrace, the Continent and Islands of Anierica, and the other the COntinent of Eu rope. It was his intention to permit the - exportation of any articles, either the produce of our own Islands, or of any articles legally imported, whether froth another Island or this country, either in British ships, or in foreign ships built in the countries to which they belonged, and navigated in the, -way now permitted by law. This arrangeMent would apply to the intercourse of our Colonies with the Continent and Islands Of, America. It was necessary; that foreign ships should I - be placed on the same footing as British ships ; for if it were -attempted to put them on a different footing, the necessary con . sequence would be, that the foreign country , oti which any re -strietions were Imposed would impose similar restrictions an out ships. There was one question connected with this mea sure of considerable importance, as it affecied our North Ame rican Colonies. The circumstances under which our West In dia Colonies had been pladed had led to a very extended intercourse between those Colonies and North America—an intercourse Which had been fostered by the system pursued in Abe United States because the United States nad passed a law prohibiting. Britisli ships from all trade between our Colonies .and the United States. The United States had gone still fur ther, for they actually prevented American ships from doing whtkt they were allowed to do by our laws. The policy pur- ' sued by the American Government had very materially cur tailed, and limited the commercial intercourse which had ante cedently subsisted between this country and the United States, and naturally led to a more extended trade between our Colo nies and the North American Colonies than would otherwise have taken place. The claims of the North American Colonies were undoubtedly entitled to fair and liberal consideration. It was peculiarly incumbent upon Parliament to extend its pro . tenon to those Colonies,' connected as they were with us by so many ties, speaking the same language, governed by, the same laws, influenced by the same feelings,'possessing, in short, all the same characteristic traits as the people of this country. The steadiness witlOwliiei - our North American Colonies had uniformly supported the Mother Country demanded our pro tection, and that protection could only be given by reserving-a duty on importatiOn into the West India Colonies of all those' articles of foreign produce which came into direct competition with those of the North American Colonies, such as flour, grain -of every,description, lumber, &c. The details of the measure would be matter for subsequent consideration when he brought is his Bill. As the Object of the measure was to extend the intercourse between our Colonies and the other parts of the world as much as, possible,-itwould/be inconsistent with that object to impose too high aduty; - on the other hand, be should be sorry .to recommend any scale of duties which would . not give a fair_protection to our North American Colonies. This was in gentral terms- the nature of the proposition which it was his intention to-submit to the fav6urable consideration of the _House. By-referring to the existing laws, it would be found that these arrangements did tot involve a greater change of system than. was demanded'bYthe lapse of time and the change of cir -cumstances; and he trusted, therefore, that thcy.would be ap proved even by those who were accustomed to -look with the greatest jealousy to any thing tretching upon the principle of :the Navigation Laws. So far from considering this change as „calculated to injure our navigation, he was satistied that, looking at the question without reference to particular interests, .or particular colonies, Cur navigation as well as-our commerce. -.would ultimately derive the most essential benefit from were some circumstances connected with the state of the ancient colonies of Spain and Portugal, to which it was ma terial that Parliament should direct its attention in legislating on this subject. No man could say how soon those colonies would alter their relation with the mother countries—how soon they would cease to depend upon their ancient masters. If such an event were to take place, either in the Spanish colonies or the Brazils, the whole of the free port system would be neces sarily extinguished; for it applied solely to the possessions of European Foreign. Sovereigns, and those colonies might at no very distant period cease to belong to a Foreign Sovereign de jure, as well as de judo. It would be most unwise, therefore, to pass a law, all Owing intercourse with Cuba, the Caraccas, Brazil, or Mexico, in the event of their becoming independ ent, but not extending to the United States of America. The 1 soundest policy we could pursue in our commercial inter course with Foreign Nations was to place all on the same foot ing, and a departure from that policy would tend only to ex cite jealousy, and embarrass our political as well as our coin- mercial relations. Let the Rouse look to the policy_ pursued in other Countries, with reference to their colonial interests. At the time we passed our Navigation Laws, the restric tions we imposed on Colonial Commerce were not greater than those imposed by other countries, and the consequences, was that no colonysproducing articles similar to our own possessed any advantage over us in a common market.— This was not the case now, for the colonial policy of Spain and Portugal was in effect entirely altered. Brazil and Cuba, two of the •greatest producers of colonial produce, were now open to the whole world. If, therefore, Spain and Portugal permitted a more unrestricted intercourse than formerly with her colonies, while this country adhered' rigidly and pertina ciously to the ancient system, we should leave those countries in possession of a vantage ground, which might lead to the most prejudicial, if not the most disastrous, effects upon' our colo nial interests. There was another very important view of this question—he alluded to its connection with the Slave Trade. This country had honestly, manfully, and decidedly abolished that odious traffic in defiance of all the prejudices and alarms which had existed on the subject ; we had raised an imperishable monument of Christian benevolence, and na tional honour, and had endeavoured, by unsparing pecuniary sacrifices, and by every means which diplomatic skill, and an honest perseverance in the just cause in which we had em barked, could supply, to obtain the cordial assent and co operation of other powers. We had obtained the cordial sup port of many, and the nominal support of all the European powers ; but he was sorry to observe that the support of some of those powers was merely nominal. It was well known indeed that the traffic was openly carried on by Splin and Portugal, for supplying Cuba andthe Brazils with slaves; a circumstance which gave those colonies an advantage, though he believed only a temporary advantage, over our own. This was of itself an important consideration, and furnished a strong argument for our endeavouring to give to our Colonies the advantage of free and unrestricted competition. He might possibly be asked why he brought forward this measure at the present moment ? and why he did not rather wait till the Colonies of Spain and Portugal were declared independent, instead of legislating- with a view to future contingencies ? This brought him to the Con sideration of the actual state of our Colonies. He would not weary the House with an array of figures and details, to prove the existing pressure on the Colonial interests. It was notori ous that the value of Colonial produce had greatly diminished, and that that diminution had not been accompanied with a cor responding increase of consumption. The existing distress arose partly, he believed, from impolitic restrictions on their trade, and partly from the increased production not only of the Colonies which we formerly possssed, but of those which had come into our possession by recent arrangements. It was the duty of Par liament to look to the present circumstances of the Colonies, and to see whether any mode of relief, not objectionable in principle, could be adopted. He believed there were no available means of relief except by opening new markets for their produce ; and un less that relief were afforded, both the British Proprietors of the Colonies and the negro population, of which they were the ' protectors—he would say, the generous protectors, must be con signed to ruin. It might be said that the markets were already crowded, and that no effectual relief therefore could be derived from this source, but he had never been accustomed to regard the operations of commerce in so contracted a point of view. The operation of a particular market at a given period might not indeed afford all the immediate relief that, was anticipated. But when he looked back to the history of commerce.—when he con sidered its enterprising nature, and the penetrating qualities that belonged to it—he was persuaded, that by removing re straints and breaking fetters, it was impossible to calculate the extent of the benefit which would ensue. Ile could not better illustrate this principle of commerce than by the words of 'a dis tinguished Poet of this country, in reference to the influence of climate on the mind of man :-•-• 44 What seasons can controul, What fancied zone can circumscribe, the soul, Who, conscious of the source from which she springs By reason's light, on resolution's wings, • ' , Spite of her frail companion, dauntless goes, O'er Libya's deserts, and through Zembla's snows ?" What ,was the elevated language of poetry, as applied to the soul of man, became mere prose, as applied to the spirit and enterprising nature of commerce. There was another Principle of which he should recommend the adoption to the Committee, namely, to extend the intercourse which was now confined to Malta, and Gibraltar to all parts:of Europe. When we saw Spanish . and Portuguese ships sailing from Cuba, with the produce of that islano,into the Baltic, he could not conceive why British ships should not be allowed to do the same thing, without subjecting them to the inconvenience and expense or bringing their produce into warehouses in this country, and, afterwards transporting them to the different markets. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by proposing two Resolu tions—That the Chairman of the Committee be instructed to move for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the trade between his Majesty's possessioni in America and the 'West Indies,:and lather places in America , and the 'West Indies ; and, secondly, for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the trade between his Majesty's possesions in America and the 'West Indies, and other parts of the world, exclusive of America and the West Indies. Mr. WILBERFORCE spoke in a low tone of voice.—The Hon. Gentleman was understood to speak in terms of commen dation of the principle of extending the commerce of the \Vest Indian Colonies. In proportion as the intercourse was ' in creased with our islands in that quarter, and they were visited by our ships, would the 'illicit traffic in slaves, 'still carried on by foreign countries, contrary to their acknowledged sense of duty, and their positive stipulations, be kept in check. He understood that that odious trade was still carried on in Ja maica. He perceived some of his friends dissented; but if it were not so, there must be Some precautionary measures taken of which he was riot aware, and which he would be glad to hear. His object was to impress on his Majesty's Govern ment the expediency of consnie'ring in this measure for the relief of the European interests of the West Indian Colonies, the greatest of all interests, that of the slaves. He could not help thinking that it was absolutely necessary that a registry of slaves should be kept in the Colonies. He would not occupy the time of the House longer by going into the details of this subject, but would content himself for the present with merely putting in his claim to a full consideration of the great interest he had mentioned. Mr. BARHAM assured. the house that there was no ground for apprehending any fresh importation of slaves into the British IN est India Islands. The difficulty of all the pro prietors was to know what to do with their slaves. They would be glad to get half the price of the cost of them, and a man must be insane who would at this time import slaves. He did therefore implore his Hon; Friend (Mr. 'Wilberforce) before he allowed this measure to go out to the West Indies charged with his malediction as tending to cherish the Slave Trade, to inform himself on the subject. He knew that he had means within his power, and he begged him to employ them. His Hon. Ffiend was wrong if lie conceived the planters and proprietors in the West Indies were not considerably distressed. This measure was absolutely necessary to save them from ruin, at the same time that he was convinced that no measure 'could be more conducive to the abolition of the Slave Trade. Mr. WILBERFORCE - explained.. He had not said that the West Indian Colonies were not in a distressed state; he knew and he regretted that they were so. Mr. BI A R RYAT T considered the measure as one of the great est importance, not only with resped to its general object, the amelioration of trade, but also as it affected the negroes. From the state in which their masters were at present, they were in ex treme distress and starvation. The measure, whilst it went to save. the masters from ruin, was also highly interesting to the slaves. The object of it was to place those who had abolished the slave trade upon the same footing with those who had not. The good which would result fr6m this measure would affect not the colonies only, it would be a general benefit to the trade, by drawing part of that to our own colonies which now went to Cuba, to the Brazils, and to other parts of America which were not ours. The number of ships from the other parts of Europe, and particularly from Russia, which resorted to these colonies, was very great. By a return which he had that morning re ceived, it appeared that no fewer than 575 sail had visited those parts in the year 1820. He knew it would be said that the establishment of a regular intercourse between our Colonies and the United States would tend to hurt the Navy. But on that subject he would always maintain the opinion of Burke, that the establishment of the Navy depended but upon time and upon strength ; and he thought that at least one of these would derive advantage from the measure. At any rate, in a mea sure which, like this, went to do away that which would lead to a total stagnation of an important part' of our trade, other interests ought to give way for the general good. There was one . part of the existing regulations which it would be advisable to do away, and that was the non-intercourse between the different colonies. Goods imported into any one colony could net, in the event of their not meeting with a ready sale there, be re-shipped for another without much trouble, expence, and loss of time. He therefore thought that a cl ause should be inserted into the Bill, permitting a free intercourse from one colony to another. Mr. BUXTON observed, that last Session, when a proposal was made for allowing the Sugars of the East Indies to be im ported into this country, upon the same cenditions as those of the West, the proposal had been rejected, upon the plea that this country had the monopoly of supplying the West Indies, and while that lasted it would not be fair to allow others to in terfere with the'means the Colonists had of disposing of their produce. Now, then, when it was proposed to break up the monopoly which this country had of supplying the colonies, it might be matter of consideration whether the market might not at the same time be opened for East India Sugars. 'the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated that the whole ques tion turned upon this; and he (Mr. B.) did not see how they could settle the one part, without attending to that upon which it was allowed to depend. There was one point which emi nently called for attention, and that was the state of the slaves. These, he contended, ought strictly tirlee adscripti glebe— They ought not to be sold from one island or colony to another. The power of doing so tended more than any thing else to prevent the formation of moral and domestic habits among that suffering class of human beings. A slave might build a cottage, cultivate land, marry, and rear a family, and then, witho'ut a single mo ment's warning, he might be sold away . into another and a dis tant island.—(Cries of " No, no !")—He granted that the slave could not be sold to any new colony, but then he might be transferred from old to old, whenever it suited the interest or the caprice of -his master.—( Hear !)—This was quite as good for his argument as if the sale and transfer were allowed from the old colonies to the new ; and, in his opinion, it - led to cone sequences as bad as those of the Slave Trade. The abolition of that trade was but the beginning of a system of ameliora don ; and though he would not argue them, rn the mean time, there were many points upon which new regulations were called for. Of these he would instance the judicial system which applied to the slaves, and the , laws which regulated their marriages. He thought that all parties concerned should make some concessiens, with a view to the introduction of a better system. Mr. IIUSKISSON could assure the Committee that it was by to mettne,intended to treat with the Colonies with a view ee . benefit them at the expence of this country. The whole ques tion was open for discussion, and he trusted it would be seen that, the whole of it was founded on sound prineiples—nrie ciples which would be equally conducive to the welfare of the Colonies and , the nation. Two objections ()illy had been started to it, and they had been so as if the starters had themselves been doubtful of their. weight. With regard to its effect upon the Slave Trade, he was convinced that that would be such as every well-wisher of humanity would be anxious ;to promote. There was no desire to support that inhuman, immoral, and abominable traffic. As for himself, he had assisted in the glo rious labour of its abolition, and he could assure the lion. Member for Bramber (Mr. Wilberforce) that not even he had the perfection of that glorious work mere anxiously at heart. In this measure they would have to look to the advantages which resulted to this country and to the Colonies. It bad been hinted that the more frequent intercourse between our Colo nies and the United States, to which the proposed measure had reference, would afford facility for an illicit trade in Slaves. — But it would be borne in mind that the object of the measure was not to relax the vigilance with which that practice is watched, but to render t ha t vigilance more regular, strict, and perfect, and to remove any indulgences which might at present be extended to it. It was not therefore to be imputed to the measure, that it would admit of, far less encourage illicit trade. The Free Port Act gave to Spain and Portugal certain faci lities and advantages which the present measure would do away. It was a measure of the utmost importance. It was the renewal of trade with America—a trade which would be highly advantageous to both countries. If they looked at the illicit trade in . slaves, they would find that it was not car ried on between our Colonies and the United States, nor was it in any way promoted by our Government. He would ask what the trade was with Cuba and with the Brazils ? A mistaken policy—a policy not more hostile to the freedom of trade than injurious to the interests of the Colonies, had delayed .the inter course with the United States too long, and had forced our • colonists on the hand, and the inhabitants of the States on the • other, to seek in Cuba and the Brazils what we had denied.— We had long pursued a narrow and mistaken policy.—(Hear, from the Opposition !)-He would not say that this had been done through design ; but it had been done, and the results had been the bringing in of distress, and the encourage ment of the Slave Trade. The policy had been to keep up (the restriction, in the hope that it would encourage production both in the Colonies and in Britain, but it had proved injurious to both. Another subject for consi deration was the claim which the planter had upon this country for protection, independently altogether of the Slave Trade. There was a vast increase of Colonial Produce at the time of the late peace, owing to the new Colonies which we had acquired ; and if by means of this supply being found far` greater than the regular demand of this country, then the plan ter, who was no party to the restrictive regulation, ought not to suffer by them. With regard to what had been stated rela tive to the East India sugar, he would remark that when we had been long under a vicious system, we cannot, without danger, get rid of it all at once. Tie history of the colonies shewed that the system which had long been pursued in them had been of the most mischievous nature. The old mistaken notion appeared to be to look upon them not as a means of wealth or of strength, but as they contributed to the extension of the slave trade. They world find that we planted Colonies and made treaties and stipulations, the chief object of which was to secure to us a monopoly of that traffic. This policy had involved us in the most ruinous consequences. We had abolished the trade in slaves—a trade which was repugnant to humanity, religion, and sound policy • and they could not give to the world a greater boon than to facilitate the means by which the planters should be enabled to follow up that measure. It required no argument to prove that the slave would be made better by that which improved the condition of his master ; and it was but doing justice to the master to give him the chance of a better market. It was possible that sugar ,could be raised cheaper iir the East Indies than in the West ; as slavery was not the best means for getting labour either well or cheaply done ; but still if the produce in the West Indies be raised in conse quence of a system which had been founded on the colonial policy of the country, we were bound to protect the market for him'. That policy might be the cause which produced an inefficient labourine populatioe in the colonies; but still that population which we had formed, we were bound by every means iu our power to support. Hence the question of the East India sugar was one which did not:enter into the present discussion. The planters must sup portehe population. They were labouring under difficulties__ difficulties said to be similar to those which the Agriculturists were suffering at home, and which, like them, were attributed to over production. This over-production existed only in the new colonies, and was not heard - of in the old. But granting that there were an over-production, what course could be more wise or natural than the finding of new market ? Whether he looked at the course of policy, or at that of humanitY, he found both in favour of the measure ; and therefore, without alluding to the other collateral subjects which had been noticed, he would give the measure his decided support.—(H ear !) PLIJMER, in a speech which was scarcely audible in the gallery, congratulated the House on the disposition shewn to afford relief to the distressed Colonists. The Hon. Gentle man also quoted a letter received from some of the West India Islands,_.eomplaining of great distress. E Mr. VANS thought that this was a favourable opportu nity for demanding of the Colonial Legislature the regula tion of - the Slave Trade, when we were granting them this measure. Mr. ROBINSON said, the particular ports to be opened to traders would be specified in the Bill, with power to the King in Council to extend the privilege ; and that for the better secu rity against illicit importation of slaves, those ports would be selected where there was an establishment of Custom-house officers. Mr. W. SMITH said it was the first time he had heard it stated that we had cherished our West Indian Colonies in order to encourage the Slave Trade. He had always before thought that we had- encouraged the African Slave Trade for the pur pose of colnnizin,.3 our West Indian possessions. He thought the property of those Colonies was in a state of great depres sion ; but he could not understand that there was any such hurry for the passing of this measure that other important ar rangements could not be considered and included in it. He would not, however, throw any impediment in the way. Mr. H USKISSON explained. Mr. PHILLIPS said he hoped that the consideration of no one or more individual interests of this country would be per mitted to interfere 'with a measure which was consistent with the soundest principles of cosnmercial policy and justice. He was convinced that by the operation of this measure a stop might be put to the continuance of the slave trade. Mr. BRIGHT was of opinion that Canada ought to have the advantage of the proposed measure. It was unwise 'to throw difficulties in the way of this measure, which was calculated to give a blow to the remains of the Slave Trade, and by the progression of civilization to confer the highest- benefits on the Slaves of the West India Colonies.--(Hear !) After a few words from Mr. BUTTERWORTH; that were not distinctly audible In the gallery, the resolutions were agreed to. The House resumed, and Mr. Brogden obtained leave to bring in the Bills ordered by the Committee. MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES. Mr. ARBUTHNOT moved that the House should resolve itself into a Committee of Supply. Mr. BENNET said, as it was then half past nine o'clock, and as there was one subject of considerable importance likely to be brought before them in the Estimates, (he was under stood to mention :he Ophthalmic Establishment, an immense volume respecting which he had lately read), he hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would not press that vote till after the holidays. Mr. ARBUTHNOT consented to postpone it. The following grants were then'moved and agreed to, after a few remarks from Mr. Humz, -Mr. BENNET, and other Hon. Members : For salaries to officers of the Court of the Exchequer £7,000 For salaries to the Commissioners of the Insolvent Debtors' Court, Clerks, and contingent expences - For salaries granted to certain Professors of the Uni versities of Oxford, for reading Lectures in the pre sent year - - - 953 For expences of the Muses of Lords and Commons - 19,053 Forsalaries and allowances to - the officers of the Houses of Lords and Commons - - - - 122,000 To defray extraordinary charges in the department of the Lord Chamberlain, for furniture supplied to both Houses of Parliament ' - - 4,800 To defray the expenses of certain Colonial services brought to the miscellaneous estimates from the Army estimates - .. - 2,442 For Printing Acts of Parliament - For Printing - Votes of the House of Commons To make good a deficiency in the grant for the same purpose last year - - - , - For the relief of 'American Loyalists - For maintaining and confining Criminal Lunatics For the usual Allowances for Dissenting Ministers-, Poor French Protestants, Refugees, Clergy, and 17,000 3,500 - 2041. 15 - 7,5(M) - 3,306 - 7.036 1,847 Laity - For Repairs of Henry the Seventh's Chapel - To cover the Deficiency of the Grant tor 1820, for Supplementary Charge on account of Printing done by Order of the House - To defray the Charge of printing Bills, Acts of Parlia ment, and other Papers, during the present Session 20,000 To coyer the Deficiency of the Grant for 1821, on ac count of Printing done for, both Houses of Parlia ment - - - _ - 1,235 - 20,000 - 10,479 3,500 To cover the Deficiency in the Grant for 1821, Bills, Reports, and other Papers, by Order of the House " of Commons - For Printing in the present Session - - - To cover the Expence of Printing the 77th Volume of the Journals.of that House, being for the present Session - - - - 1,750 On a Grant being moved for Foreign and other Secret Ser vice, of 40,0001., Mr. HUME wished to know for what purpose so large a grant had been proposed? In. former times of peace half that sum he believed had been considered sufficient. He could not conceive for what it could be wanted. His opinion, howeVer, was, that it could be desired for no good purpose. If the money were to be properly applied, Ministers need not be afraid of stating to the House how it was to be disposed of. He was of opinion that 40 1 0001. was too much, and thought 15 or 20,0001. might be sufficient. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, if the lion. Gen tleman wished to know what sum had been voted for Secret Service in former years, he could move for the account, and no . objection would be made to printing it. If he wished Ministers to answer the question, how the Secret Service Money was to be applied, he must say it was an Irish proposition, as if the in formation called for were given, the grant in tjuestion would be no longer far " secret services." The money granted for Se cret Service by Mr. Burke's Bill was disbursed by persons acting under the obligation of an oath. He, of course, would not enter into any detailed .explanation ; but he' had no hesita tion in saying, that a considerable portion of the charge arose from services performed during the war, and was expended in small portions. He could not state the exact sum, but lie be lieved about 24,0001. was to meet expences incurred during the war. Mr.-HUME still thought the sum a great deal too much, and was of opinion there could be no harm in putting'the per sons who received the pensions on regular list. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that what the Hon. Gentleman had suggested could not very easily be done where the names of the parties must be concealed, and the services which they had performed could not be stated. He repeated the assertion, that more than half the grant proposed was re quired on account of services performed during the war. If the Hon. Gentleman wished to compare the present grant with former grants, any information he desired would be granted:. Mr. HUME remarked; it had come out last year.that part of the secret service money was expended in proceedings against the late Queen on the Milan Commission. This was that which had never been contemplated when the Sums so applied had been granted. What was so entrusted to Ministers might be misapplied, and therefore he considered the sum which had been moved for too large. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY thought the subject now touched upon might more naturally have been brought forward last year. If. the Hori. Gentleman chose to raise, a question on it, he should be prepared to contend that the se cret service money was most evidently applicable to the pur pose which had been alluded to. The sums so granted were to be expended for the service of the country either at home or abroad. That which . was distributed at home, as well as that which was disbursed abroad, was applied under the obliga:. tion of an oath. He would' contend that it was a legitimate and proper application of the Secret . Service money on what the Honourable Gentleman had made the subject of com plaint, though afterwards it had been brought before the House in another shape, and paid by them as a public charge, when the service to which it had been applied was no longer secret. _ _ Mr., HOBHOUSE objected to the grant. It was last year but 25,0001., and he thought some explanation ought to be given of the circumstances which had made 40,0001. necessary. It ought to be shewn how, in time of peace, so much was wanted to bribe agents (for it came to that) to watch the proceedings of foreign, powers. Our great name; and the great force kept up at our expence, ought to save us from such a charge. The authority of Air., Surke on this subjeCt he held to be of little im.. portance, as he thought he could quote from him opinions for and against every line of politics, that could be pursued. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that they had not merely Mr. Burke's authority for the application of secret ser vice money, but they had that of the law of the land. It was true that last year 25,0001. was taken for secret service, but that was because a large sum remained in hand from the grant of the preceding year. The grant was not expected to be the same every year. When the Honourable Gentleman assumed that the money . thus called for could only be' wanted for purposes of bribing in foreign parts, he cculd not corroborate what he had advanced, though he could not enter into the subject. • Mr. HOBHOUSE did not mean to use the term bribery in the grossest sense of the word.. It was, however, well known, that in dealing with Foreign Powers it was necessary to use a silver spear. The Noble Marquis had, ,he believed, known this from experience, and had used that weapon with"no"siriall success. He thought Ministers ought to explain why so larg e a grant was called for; and hoped that unless they did so, his Hon. Friend would submit some proposition to the House which would enable them to come to a vote on it. • • Mr. ARBUTHNOT reminded the Committee, that last yea he had said he would take but a small' vote for secret service, in consequence of there being a large sum remaining on hand from the former grant. • In point of fact, the estimated sum for last year was 65,0001. instead of 40,0001. The Resolution was put and carried without a division. The following Sums were then moved for : Tor the Fee Fund in the Department of the Treasury, and Secretary of State - - 72,000 For Contingent Expences, Messengers, and other Charges in the Lord Chamberlain's Department 78,794 On this Grant a conversation of some length occurred, in which the Marquis of Londonderry, Mr. flume, and Sir. Ben net participated. In the course of the observations Mr.' BENNETT moved a reduction of 10,0001. making the sum 68,7941. The Committee haring divided en the amendment, the num bers WQ/C For the. Amendment Against it Majority. - The, resolution was then agreed to. The sum of 7,8911. Gs. 2d. was proposed for defraying the allowances, compensation, and superannuations, for persons in public offices, under the provisions of an Act pimed in the 50th year of his late Majesty. Mr. HUME objected to the Estimate, on the ground that provisions in the way of pensions to Consuls ought to be made out of the Civil Contingencies. . The Marquis of LONDONDERRY stated that Parliament was regularly called upon to vote the Estimate, and that the amount ought not to come out of the Civil Contingencies. The Consuls who received pensions were aged persons, who had seen forty and fifty years service. After a few observations from Dr. PHirwmonE, Mr. BEN NETT, Mr. ARBUTHNOT, and Sir R. WILSON, the Resolu tion was agreed to. For the Civil Establishment at Sierra Leone £22,176 12 10 For defraying the charges of New South Wales 13,347 6 0 For the Civil Establishment of Newfoundland 6,488 10 0 For ditto at Prince Edward's Island 3,520 15 0 For ditto at New Brunswick 6,757 10 0 For ditto at Nova Scotia 15,098 17 6 _ _ - 19 - 69 - - - -50 -For the Civil Establishment of Upper Canada 11,992 10 0 For ditto in the Island of Dominica , 600 0 0 The sum of 3,5061. having been proposed for the expences of the Bahama Islands, hlr. PETER MOORE said, he was authorised once more to claim those Islands for a Gallant Friend, an Admiral in the British service. His Gallant Friend was ready to receive the PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Lunce 1° die Aprilis 1822. , DURHAM PAVING AND LIGIITING BlLL—Petition of Owners and Occupiers of Property in the City of Durham, against, to lie on the table. GAS LlGHT—Stockton, and Dover—Bills read a second time, and committed. Wigan—Bill presented, and read a first time. Glasgow—Bill read a third time, and passed. - EDINBURGH QUEEN-STREET GARDENS IMPROVEMENT— Bill read a second time, and committed. TTL-E-IFIAMPTO2sT BRIDGE AND ROADS BlLL—Petition of Owners or Occupiers of Lands in Amberley; also, adjoin ing to the River Arun, in the parish of Stopliam ; also, in .the parish of Cold Waltham ; also, in the parish of Pulbo rough against, to lie on the table till second reading. Peti tion of Inhabitants of 'Worthing, in favour of, to lie on the table. ROADS—MoId, and Drayton Lane—read a second time, and committed. Barlow, and Guldeford and Farnham—report ed, to be ingrossed. COVENTRY GAOL—Petition for leave to present a Petition for a Bill, referred to a Committee. GREENWICH CHURCH—Petition for Bill reported, Report to lie on the table. BRAY DRAINAGEAMEZ. , TDMENT BILL Pay 'NG—Tiverton, and Alnwick Bills read a 2d time, LIVERPOOL CHURCHES and committed. NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE GAOL TOLLS SMALL DEBTS—Petition from Uxbridge, in favour of a Small Debts till—to lie on the table. INELosußEs—Seaton, &c. (Cumberland)—reported, to be in grossed. South Dalton (York)--read a second time, and committed. LIVERPOOLWATER BlLL—Petition of the Select Vestry of Liverpool, against, referred to the Committee on the Bill ; Counsel ordered. AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS—Petition from Kingston-upon- Hull—to lie on the table. Petitions from Linlithgo w; and Wharton-Lto lie on the table, and to be printed. SALT TAX—Petition of Shippers of White Salt, of Liverpool, against—to lie on the table, and to be printed. INNKEEPERS' BlLL—Reperted ; to be read a third time this day. MALT AND COUNTERVAILING DUTIES (IRELAND) ACTS —Resolutions reported ; 1. " That for all. dry Malt, , unground, which on the 25th day of February, 1822, shall be in the stock of any Nlaltster or Make of Malt for sale, or Factor or Dealer in Malt, or Com mon Brewer or Distiller, in Ireland, for which the Duties pay able by Law shall have been duly charged or paid ; and also, for all Malt chargeable with Duty in respect of all Corn or Grain which at any time on or after the said 25th day of Fe bruary, 1822, and before the sth day of March, 1822, shall be inprocess of being made into Malt, in the Malting-house or Premises of any Maltster or Maker of Malt for sale ; there shall be allowed and paid the sum of 4s. British currency, en and fig every barrel of Malt charged or chargeable with, or which shalt have paid, the Duty of 145." 2. That from and after the 25th copy of February, 1822, the Drawback or Allowance made King an Act made in the 59th year of his late Majesty King George the. Third, on Beer or Ale made in Ireland, and exported to any other place than Great Britain, shall be repealed, and shall cease and deter mine ; and that from and after the said'2sth day of February, 1822, instead of all former Drawbacks on Beer or Ale made in Ireland and exported to any other place than Great Britain, there shall ,be paid to every person who shall legally export from Ireland to any other place than Great Britain, any Strong Beer or Ale made or brewed in Ireland, the Draw back and Allowances following ; that is to say,—For every bar rel of such Beer or Ale, the sum of 53. 6d. British currency, and no more." 3. " That on all Spiriti made or distilled in. Ireland from Corn or Grain, malted or unmalted, at any time after the 25th day of February, 1822, and on which all Duties imposed by Law thereon shall'be paid, and which shall be exported from Ireland, otherwise than from his Majesty's warehouses, to any place except Great Britain, there shall be allowed and paid $ Drawback of ss. 104 d. for every gallon of such Spirits of a strength not exceeding twenty-one, per centum above proof .by Sikes's hydrometer, and so in proportion for any less degree of strength, not being less than seven per centam above proof by Sikes s hydrometer, in lieu of all Drawbacks allowed or made, payable on such Spirits under any Act or Acts in force in Ire land." 4. " That, from and, after, the 25th day, of February, 1822, the Countervailing Duty of 16s. 2d. imposed by an Act made in the 59th year of his late Majesty King George the Third, upon Irish Strong Beer, Ale or, Mum, imported or brought in to Great Britain directly from Ireland, shall cease and deter mine, except as to any arrear thereof ; and that, in lieu there of, the following Countervailing Duty of, Excise shall be levi ed,, charged, collected, and paid :—For and upon every barrel, consisting, of thirty-six gallons English Beer measure, of Irish Strong Beer, Ale, or Mum, which shall be imported or brought into Great Britain ditectly froth Ireland, an 'Excise Counter vailing Duty of 9s. 2d. and no more : and that, upon the ex portation from Great Britain into Ireland, after the said 25th day'of February, 1822, of any Strong Beer, Ale, or Mum, made in Great Britain, there shall be allowed and paid a Draw back equal in amount to the said Countervailing Duty so pay able on Strong Beer, Ale, or Mum, made in Deland and im ported into Great Britain, and no more." 5.." That from and after the 25th day of February; 1822, the Countervailing Duty of 9s. 9d. British currency, on every barrel of Beer or Ale containing 32 gallons, brewed or made in Great Britain, and imported from thenceinto Ireland, grant ed by an Act made in the 59th year of his late Majesty King George the Third, and the equivalent Drawback on the expor tation from Ireland to Great Britain, of Beer or Ale made or brewed in Ireland, shall be repealed, and shall cease and de termine." 6. " That from and after the 25th day of February, 1822, the Countervailing Duty of 6s. imposed by an Act, made in the 59th year of the reign of his late Majesty King George the Third, upon Spirits made or distilled in Great Britain, and im ported into Ireland from Great Britain, cease and deter mine,, except as to any arrear thereof ; and that in lieu thereof, the following Countervailing Duty ,shall be charged, levied, collected, and paid : that is to say,—For and upon every gal lon, -Irish wine-measure, of Spirits which shall be made or dis tilled in Great Britain, and which shall be imported into Ire land from Great Britain, at a strength not exceeding twenty one per centum above proof,'the sum of ss. 6d. British curren cy, and so in proportion for every less degree of strength, not being, less than seven per centum above proof." Resolutions agreed to.; instruction to Gentlemen appointed to bring in Malt Duties Repeal Bill, to make Provision accord ingly. NOTICES OF MOTIONS for THIS DAY. 1. Mr Charles Eaivert,—Bill to regulate the sale of Bread in the Metropolis: 2. Mr. Stuart Wortley,—Select Committee on Petition of Henry Burgess, for remuneration of his expences incurred in the plan for an Extra Post. 3. Mr. Hume,—Expences; Board of Trustees for promotion of Manufactures (Scotland) ; , also, Expences of Commis sioners for encouragement of Fisheries. ORDERS OF THE DAY for THIS DAY. 1. Superannuation Act Amendment Bill—Further considet tion of Report. 2. Summary Proceedings Bill—Committee. 3. Supply—Reports. 4. Commercial Credit (Ireland) Bill—Committee. 5. Innkeepers' Bill—Third Reading. 6. Flax and Cotton Act—Report thereupon. 7. Excise Duties and Licenses Acts—Report thereupon. PRIVATE BlLLS—Second Readings for This Day. I. Duxford Tnclosure 15. Axminster Road 2. Dringhouses Inclosure 6. Surrey New Roads 3. Effingham and Ibsley In- 7. Durham Paving closure 8. Little-hampton Bridge an 4. Leatherhead Road - Roads. Bahamas, and pay a tribute of 100,0001. His Friend's claim was still in existence. The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. Mr. ARBUTHNOT stated, that he should not move the rest of the Estimates until after the Holidays. ADJOURNMENT. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY gave notice, that, on the rising of the House on Wednesday, he should move to ad journ to that day fortnight. SLAVE TRADE. Mr. LUSHINGTON brought in a Bill to amend the Slave Trade Abolition Bill, which was read the first time, and or dered to be read a second time on the 18th of April. Mr. Lushington stated, that his Bill extended only to the regula tion of bounties. ' . The remaining orders of the day were dispos'ed of, and the House adjourned at One o'Clock. LIST OF THE MINORITY FOR REDUCING £lO,OOO FROM THE ESTIMATE FOR MES SENGERS FOR THE OFFICES OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR 1822.— APRIL 1. Barrett, S. B. M. James, W. Palmer, C. Bennct,Hon. H. G. Lushington, Dr. Robarts, A. Bright, Henry Martin, John Robarts, Colonel Calvert, N. Maule, Hon. W. Robinson, Sir Geo. Colburne, N. R. Monck, J. B. Smith, W. Hobhouse, J. C. Moore, Peter Whitbread, S. C. Hume, J. 8,640