The Sun. — London, England, 1822-02-12 00:00:00

DAT.) OF Fl"- e Nisi d been an tea. e rule ror o' and ►D I, as it q•ha¢ as the p, Bart• [airj&, e ' 14 been :rvice• weelc led cais .or ser o, as Eyre, r-eon Fur !. fitted itenant Davis, Barra; , ina e rank on the rilliain Ike ll' Baker 3UtleFf codon , big of ha a nder, th anti severa l ,rrived chelle` fro' ni the Goo cl for Prince , from cet for. oss oelo:. 3 ga' acces s ng_wr l vori i n the iTer „tving ~e a cYt ables' , LLI~ ,eill . ' niog ewe' 5 wi lt► tied. AO" yere the / . rthi r at -I ' ion s t i" yved --- e. Oil 3r PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, FEB. 11. IRELAND. ‘The Royal Assent was given, by Commission, to the Irish Insurrection Act and Irish Habeas Corpus Suspension Bills. The Lords Commis sioners on this occasion were, the LORD CIIAN• CELLOR, the Earl of SHAFTESBURY,and Viscount MF,LVILLE. PRIVATE BILLS. It was ordered that no Petition for Private Bills _should be received after the 15th of March next, and that no Reports from the Judges on Petitions for Private Bills should be received after the 17th of April next.--Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. ROYAL ASSENT. The SPEAKER took the Chair at half past three ; immediately after which, the House was summon ed by the - Deputy Usher of the Black Rod to at tend-at the Bai - Of the House of Peers. On the SPEAKER'S return, he inforMed the House, that the 119ose had been to the Bar of the LOrds, and had heard the Royal Assent given, by Com Mission, to the Irish Insur rection Rill and the Habeas Corpus Suspension Bill. , Mr. HUTCHINSON, from the Bank, presented certain / j apers relating to the funding of Exchequer Bills, by the eaturnissioners of Management. AGRICUI:FURAL DISTRESQ, Mr. GOOCH presented a Petition, signed by upwards of 80 0 - persons, Occupiers of Land in the County of Suffolk, complaining of Distress, and praying for ,protecting Laws against 4tuportation, so that the Petitioners might be placed upon an tqual footing with Manufacturers. After a few words from Mr. Gooch in support of the Petition, it was or dered to lie on the table and be printed. Similar Petitions were presented by Lord Lowther, from Occupiers of Land in Westmoreland and Lancaster, and were similarly disposed of. A Petition to the same effect from Hotbed), in Lincoln- I hite ' was presented by an Hon: Member, whose name could not he learnt. Petitions, complaining of Agricultural Distress, were also Presented from . the Owners of 'Land in Gloucestershire, by -Ltd Edward Somerset.—They were also ordered to lie on the talile and be piloted. Sir CHARLES BURRELL presented a Petition, twine twas signed, from the Land Owners and Cultivtors of th Rape ly of Bramher, in Sussex, complaining of the a ir distress.e 't he Hiati. Baronet said, that the Petitioners humbly begged to state to the House, that the remedies of time and patience which had been'so earnestly recommended to them, had heen tried and found ineffectual; that the condition of labourers, and all connected with agriculture, had been affected by the distress under which that interest.was suffering; and they Prayed for the e xtension to themselves of that protection which h a d h een given to Commerce and Manufacture, and the policy of which they could not possibly question. They condemned that legislative measure, popularly called Mr. Peel's Bill, and attributed much of the pressure they felt to that measure. The Hon. Baronet said, that in all these ob servations of the Petitioners he entirely concurred; and, with respect to the last, be knew not what name to give the Act in question ; ha he thought it is description of national suicide.—The Petition was then read, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. COKE presented a Petition from the Owners and Oc.. enpiers of Land at Harleston, in Norfolk, - complaining of Distress, and praying for a repeal of the taxes upon Malt and Leather, and for a Permanent Protecting Duty upon Foreign Corn to be imported. The Hon. :Amber presented second Petition froni another place in Norfolk, making the same complaint, 'praying for the same remedy, and also pray ing for a Reform in Parliament.—Both Petitions were or dered to lie on .t he table. MISCELLANEOUS Mr. DUGDALE presented a Petition from the Chamber of Commerce at Birmingham, praying for the revival of the Foreign Trtle Cotmnittee.—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. DAWSON moved for an Address to the Crown, pray -- 111 g for a Copy of the Report made by the Committee ap- Pointed to inquire into the Fees paid to Officers of the Ex ellequer Chamber.—Ordered. • Sir HENRY PARNELL moved fora Committee to inquire in to the state of the Road between London and Holyhead, aild the stateof the Mail Conveyance between Holyhead and Duhlin.—Ordered. Mr. LENNARD gave notice that he should early in the next month move .for the Repeal of one of the Acts, gene rally called the Six Acts/ Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL presented a Petition from the I nhallitants of Dorer, praying generally for a Diminution of taxes, and ,specificaliy for protecting Duties upon Corn to h e imported into this Country. • PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. . - • Mr.. HUME moved for an Account of the Debt due from Iris Majesty's Government to the East Indin Company for Stores, Expeditions, - &c• After a few words from Mr. LUSHINGXON the Motion was ugrved to.' Mr. HUME. moved also. for an Account of all Sums rated 1 )9 the Commissioners of sewers,within the Bill of Mortality, b etween the y ears 1800 and 1822;--and for an Account of all Assessments of Land-Tax and Assessed Taxes, in Westmin Met and Middlesex, for. the last twenty years ;—a Return •of t he Revenue collected at Gibraltar within the last. three Years ;—for an Account-of Fees received in the last year in the several' regulated Public Otliees', and a statement of the authority by Which the 'same was received ;—for a return, in detail, of the sums of 17,0001. and 35,0001. charged for the "tilection of taxes in Scotland in the course of the last year. Several of these motions, the Hon. Member stated, had been adopted by the Manse last Session, and orders made thereon; hut no returns bad_ been made in compliance with those or. 'lets. He was anxious that the returns should be made, as he had other motions in, contemplation, which he would sub mit when the House should be in possession of the returns. The motions were agreed to. Mr. HUME, referring to the Sinking Fund, then moved for a return of the loans in Great Britain, in each year, since the year .. 1793, distinguishing in the account of each loan, whether it was in cash, or in the funding of Exchequer Bills, and the nature of the stock upon which it was secured or landed; together with an account of : all sums paid to tiK Commissioners of Management in each year, with the amount of the divUleUd paid on those. loans; and the time of pay +nem ; and an account of the Unclaimed Dividends.— Agreed to. A similar account, for Ireland, was also, moved for, and agreed to. Mr. FLUME then moved for an account of the gross reve. one in each year, since the year 1793.—Agreed to. Mr. HUME gave notice, that on'Wednesday next be should move for certain returns connected with the duties upon Hawkers and Pedlars. • hir.HUM.E ;axe notice,- that on Tuesday-next he should quove for aConunittee to inquire into the Church. System of luelaild, with respect to Tithes. NirJOHN 'NEWPORT moved for an account of alt Ar eara of Customs in Ireland accrued since the year 1802. Agreed to. Mr. TURNER, frost the Secretary's Office of the Court o presented certain accounts, which were ordered to lie on the table.. Mr. RICARDO moved for a return of the Gold imported itito his Majesty's Mint, and of all Gold coined therein, since the year 1815, distinguishing how much was received, and how much euined, in each year; and distinguishing British from Foreign GAL—Ordered. Mr. GREN.FhLL moved for an Account of all . Bank Post tills in circulation since the month of June last.—Ordered. Sir JOHN NEWPORT mused for copies of Extracts from the Minutes of the Vice-Treasurer's Office in Ireland, shew nig the business done in the course of the last year, and the salaties paid to its 'several Officers.—Ordered. A Message from the Lords announced their Lordships' as -.ent to the Irish . Insurrection Bill, and the Irish Habeas Cur. pus Suspension Bill. FUNERAL OF TIIE LATE QUEEN: Mr. LUSHINGTON moved- the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee of Supply. On the question being put, that the Speaker should leave the Chair, Mr. BENNET said, it would be in the recollection of the House, that on the first day' of the Session, 'he had declared that he would, the first time he heatd the word .•Supply" come from .the lips of his Majesty's Ministers, call the atten tion of th e H ouse to the scene which had taken plac e at the funeral of h er l ate M a j esty. Upon the present occasion, he should content himself with moving a resolution, (though he should not take the sense of the House upon it,) pledging the House town inquiry oil- the subjtct. The motion would come Os: fir discussion upon a more favourable occasion. At pre he was only desirous to record the extraordinary, unpre mdiented, and alarming transaction—of the dead body of a of t e ll er) "England being fraught for in the public streets, and e lives of some of his . Nlajesty's subjects bung sacrificed in the struggle. He was anxious to record, that there were Representatives of the People in that House who would at tend to their interests when Ministers asked for a supply.— He moved as an amendment a Resolution, "That this House will institute an inquiry into the circumstances which took place on the funeral of her late Majesty, and the loss of lives upon that occasion•" The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said the Motion of the Hon. Member was certainly most extraordinary; but it was unnecessary to enter into the subject of it, as the Hon. Member had expressed his intention not to press his Motion, but reserve the substance of it for another opportunity. The Hon. Member appeared to wish to record a Parliamentary singularity. Mr. BENNET assured the Noble Marquis he was mis taken, if be supposed the amendment had any thing singular about it. The old Constitutional course in Parliament was to call for a redress of grievances whet; the Supply was asked by the Crown. The amendment was put and negatived, and the original motion was agreed to. The SPEAKER left the Chair ; and the House being in a Committee, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that as a most iruportant subject was to be brought tinder the consi deration of the House upon the motion of an Hon. and Learned Member CNIr. Brougham), he should not submit any thing in the Committee which could admit of any diffi culty; and would therefore merely move the usual Resolu tion—" That a Supply he granted to his Majesty." Mr. HUME said, the Right Hon. Gentleman ought to state at once all it was that he wanted. The practice appeared to be to begin with dribblets. and to come down to the House at the end of t Session %%Rh several large sums ata sweep, just after many Gentlemen had left the House in a state of exhaustion. He (Mr. H.) would certainly take the sense of the House, if this practice were repeated during the present Session, - and would ,endeavour. to persuade the House to return to the old constitutional practice of reducing their rotes, anti then compelling Ministers to economize accor dingly. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said his Noble Friend on his right (the Ma'rquis of Londonderry) had given notice of a motion, hi the course of which a statement would he made to the,House containing the information desired by the Hon. Gentleman. • r Mr. I'. MOORE declared himself much Obliged to the Hon. Member for bringing-the practice complained of under the notice of the House. He should always condemn any depar ture front the old practice of shewing how - every shilling of the Gast Supplies had been disposed of, before saying a word about any future supply. The money might have been jndi- C . sly and prudently distributed by his Majesty's Ministers ; and lie was aware that a legislative provision had extended the time for producing the account; but he thought the pro duction at the present moment was not the less desirable. Mr. BENNET begged to suggest to the Right Hon:Gen tleman, that if he bad any new or altered plan of finance to bring forward, it was expedient that he should do so before Easter. For instance., any little matter respecting Stamps. The practicein fashion-at present was, to wait until the Mem bers were actually worn out. by the labours of the Session, and then bring forward these important considerations pro bably in the month of June. If the Right Hon. Gentleman had any such project, be would do well to set - all his instru ments at work, and let the House know what it was. Mr. WHITMORE wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentle man whether any steps had been taken in consequence of the Report of the Committee respecting the Receiver-General-. ships of Taxes. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQPER said, that every thing had been done which it was incumbent nom Go vernment to do ; and that a Bill was preparing which would soon be laid before the House, and would, he believed, give every satisfaction.—(Hear, hear !). Sir JOHN NEWPORT could not refrain from noticing the clause which was generally introduced into the Lottery Bill, declaring every person punishable by fine, imprisonment, and public whipping, who should deal in any article by way of lottery. The punishmeut, fur .an offence .sn questionable, was, in his opinion, monstrous .It was often incurred, es pecially in country towns. by many persons who had no, idea that they were thereby offending the law. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUF;R. .said, the clause in question was always introduced ; and he had never heard of any mischief having attended it. - 'The resolution was then agreed to ; the House resumed, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow.• The Marquis of LONDONDERRY asked if the Hon. Mem ber for Southwark had any objection to postpone his intended Motton until Thursday Sir ROBERT WILSON said, he had no objeCtion, provided his doing so would not interfere with the motion of a Noble Ft lend (Lord A Hamilton.)—After a short conversation lie tween the Speaker, Lord A. Hamilton, and Sir It. Wilson, the latter postponed his motion until Thursday next. Mr. COKE wished to know from a Right Hon. Gen►leman, opposite, whether any relaxation had taken place respecting the Distillery Laws ? A report had generally prevailed that such was the case. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, a mistake had very much obtained respeesine, these laws; and the sop posed alteration was merely an explanation of the laws which he li3d directed to he 'Sent to those who were interested ui the subject.. STATE OF THE COUNTRY. Mr. BROUGHAM, in rising to bring forward his promised motion, principally with reference to the state of Agriculture, felt, and without any affectation he confessed it, that he had undertaken a task of great responsibility. Ile was aware that there were very many other Hon. Members in whose hands so important a question would have met with that justice which it could not in his ; and had it not been that his Flon- Friend, the Member for Essex (Mr. Western) was prevented by indisposi tion from proceeding with the subject, he would have left it in his hands, although upon some questions they differed in opi nion. There were other Hon. Members competent to the task; but from them he differed.in opinion so much that he could not but undertake it himself even at the risk of finding all the dis advantages which too probably would attend rt. His principal object in bringing forward this question was to preserve that consistency of political conduct which he trusted he had shewn from the commencement of his public life. He had reason to fear that he should give but little satisfaction to any of the great interests in the country. He had little hope that the agricul turists would be satisfied with his view of their case ; that view inducing his opinion that, although they suffered much, they did not suffer peculiarly ; and that high prices would not assist them. Still less was his hope in this respect when he knew that he must call upon them to resist his Majesty's Adminis tration and to stand up for the whole of the country.—(Hear, hear.)—He would call upon them to disregard the quarter whence the call would come, or the opposition which it would be sure to meet. He would call upon them, once for all, to do their duty. As little must he hope to make an impression upon those whom he should call upon to retrace their steps, though he should not ask any man to he inconsistent. Some he would ask to renew their policy, but under circumstances so different from those which were when 'they first adopted it, that though a wise man might at first appear inconsistent, he would shew that he had profited by that slow, but most faithful mistress, experience.—(Hear, hear.)—There might be some whom he would call upon to do that which was enjoined by wisdom's self, and to do which it would be honourable, though the sup posed inconsistency War^ ten times greater than it was. He meant that they should manfully acknowledge their error. A word as to the time he had chosen ; a word in answer to the question, " Why not wait until his Majesty's Ministers shall bring the subject forward ?" At the first view the objection I conveyed by the question appeared to be a sound one ; and had i it not been for the foretaste which he had had on the first night of the Session from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he might perhaps have waited. It appeared clear that there would be, not a taking off of taxes, but a placing on of new ones ; for this he contended was the not taking off in such a situation as ours. —(Hear, hear.)—That doctrine was what he feared would per vade the Budget, though with a little qualification. The ques- tion " Why do you not wait ?" would be more difficult for him to answer if he had any particular plan to propose. If he were about to develope a plan complex or detailed ; if he were bringing forward his remedy or his nostrum ; if, in short, he was about to attempt any thing but the establishment of a plain broad principle—the principle that the public burdens must be reduced—(Cheers)—he might find it difficult to answer the ques tion. He conceived that he ought not to have waited until the esti mates for theyear should have been proposed ; for the principle which he sought to establish would affect theestimates themselves. It would be superfluous to comment upon the vast amount of the present distress; upon the suffering individual as well as public, pressing, as it more immediately did, upon Agriculture. All men admitted the great amount of this distress; and its exist ence was very properly lamented by Ministers, in his Majesty's Speech. But this distress, it was said, was of a local nature ; or at all events was confined to one class. He had taken some pains to inquire upon this point; and the result of his in quines satisfied him that some parts of the North were better off than others. These ware a part of' Yorkshire, and the Counties of Durham and Cumberland. In these parts it was 'not usual to get in the crop so well as it was gotten in last year; and of course the abundance of last year, without uis usual means to produce it, had occasioned the owners of land in those parts to suffer less than others. With this exception, it was impossible to say that the suffering was not grevious and general. It was useless to talk of Barley Counties, and of Essex, Hampshire, and so on—the fact most indubitably was, that the distress was general. This actually brought him to consider the assertion that the disress was greater on the agri- K cultural than other interests. Ile was free to confess that he . . could not understand 'this. A little extraordinary 'pressure he admitted, hot to say that a long course of distress should affect but one branch' (for this was said six years ago); to say that it should lie SO great in amount, so general in extent, and so last ing in duration, and that it should not affect the rest of the community, was a proposition which he repeated his mindcould not accept. He really could not comprehend it. He should not admit the proposition which' he repeated his mind could not accept. He really could not comprehend it. He should not admit the proposition, even if the branch in question were ever so inconsiderable. But what could be said to it when the branch of the community in question was formed of all en. gaged in 'the cultivation of the soil ? The Home Market must, it must be depressed; and it could not he relieved by any re strictive laws upon importation.—(Hear, hear !)—When he was told that the manufacturers were thriving while the agri culturists were ruined, he could not believe it. He admitted that they were not pressed so heavily ; but they complained, and very naturally, of the want of home demand.—(Cheers.) — Their profits were lower than they were at any other time which couldbe called flourishing; he would instance the iron trade at Birmingham. It was only lately that the most con siderable iron masters met, to take into consideration the dimu nution of their profits, and to turn theirattention to the unhappy expedient of diminishing their production, so as to equalize it with the reduced demand. They came to the resolution of diminishing their furnaces ; or, in other words, of lopping rifle considerable limb of the iron trade. This, as a Consequence, led to a reduction of wages, and the consequence of this would soon be felt. In short, if the farming interest suffered, it was impossible for the other interests not to suffer. He wouid now lead back the attention of the House to consider what had been doing since the termination of the war. He wonld not go into detail ; he would take merely a general view, and even upon that, he would contend, that it was impossible for a nation to go on successfully, as to its finances or its wealth, as we had been going on since the peace. He would take the first three years after the peace, when our expenditure in each of those years was 132 millions. In this he included the ex pences of management, for the view would be inadequate if those were excluded. They were taken from our pockets, and they increased the patronage of the Crown. If to this was added the sum which he called Taxes, formed of the Parish and County Rates, !amounting to eight millions, here was a sum of one hundred and forty millions taken from the pockets of the people either by loan or tax, and expended, yes, he would say expended, for he should use no harsher term until he should be borne out by his proofs. Now in those years, the expenditure, exclusive of the interest of the debt, amounted to 83 millions, and the revenue was but 84 millions. So prosperous was our course, even in a financial point of view, that our revenue was but one million more than our ex penditure, leaving the whole interest of the debt to be pro vided for. If -a man in private life had an income of 10,0001. a year, owed a debt, the interest of which was 50001. a year, and spent almost his 10,0001. a year, so that he was compelled to borrow to pay the interest of his debt, what was the name which would be given to the situation of such a man ? He was unwilling to speak disrespectfully of public Companies or public credit ; but he would ask Hon. Members to think what term they would give to the situation of this individual and that same term they must apply to the management of the af fairs of this country. He was unwilling to state how these sums were expended; sums, the existence of which staggered one's credulity to believe, and which it actually turned one's head to contemplate. But he should quote from the most unioestion able authority—that of the Committee of Finance ; a Commit. tee selected, not from men in the habit of opposing Ministers, but named by the Noble Marquis opposite. Unquestionably, there were some independent men upon that Committee ; but most of them must have been very willing hearers of every thing which could be said in defence of the expenditure of public money.—(Hear!)—Sonie of them were themselves in office; and their admissions might not unfairly be called confessions ; he had almost said the confessions of wrong-doers. He would give an example of that scrupulousness in the care of the pub lic purse which guided the conduct of its guardians. By the Report of the Finance Committee, with regard to the army extra.ordinaries, he found it stated that " the public buildings were carried on in a measure little calculated to check pro fusion and waste ; and were extended as the views of the planners opened in the course of the work." So then, the ex pence adapted itself to the opening views, not of Ministers, but of those of the disinterested persons who profited by the erection of the works themselves.—( Hear, hear hear!)—He intreated the attention of the House to this part of the subject. There was more sound and valuable evidence to be found in it; more of the wholesome fruit of experience to be gather ed, and more of awful warning to be collected from it, than there would be if a man were to speak to them half a century gifted with the powers of an angel.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.)—This was the confession of accomplices in the profligate expenditure.—(Cheers from the ,Opposition.)—llad the whole expence of these different works been submitted to the House in the way of estimates, they might have been examined with reference to their necessity; their probable utility, or the possibility of their being executed. The Com mittee stated, and very properly stated, that " the want of estimates on these heads had 'kept the House in com plete ignorance of the expellee of them." The plain En glish of it was this ! that the works were constructed upon a wrong principle altogether. None such ought ever to have been-attempted; - but if those who conducted the thing hop ed for security from such a .kind of !defence, these works were in themselves insufficient for what they intended them for. The plan was bad, but even if any thing could have been expected from it, that was frast.ated, for the execution was worse. Then, he asked, ought .not this to be a warning to that House ? If the House of Commons had done its duty—if they had refused to grant the supplies till they had the Esti mates before them—if they had done as every man of common sense, as every man of common honesty was bOund to do, these millions of money would not have been squandered as they had been.—( Hear.) —II e would next remind the House of the sums which had been drawn from the people of England during these years. These amounted to eighty-four millions and a half, including county and parish taxes, 92 millions,— and amounting, during three ye a r s , to 274 millions, including. parish and county taxes. In making a comparison betwixt this and former periods, it would be found that when Mr, Pitt introduced his Sinking Fund, the debt was 238 millions, and it was reduced before the year 1792 to 230 millions. So that here was an expenditure for two- or three years, so vast as to be sufficient to pay off the whole of the National Debt at the commencement of the French war. No more need be said to prove the acceleration of the crisis of our financial schemes.— Peace came, unhappily, as.he was to contend, without bring ing the usual confidence with it. After the country had been drained to an extent that placed till its affairs in that state of confusion as baffled all conjecture as to its cause, or its ex tent—with a deranged currency amongst its manifold evils, it might have been expeteted that the termination of the war which was the cause of it all, would bring a relief from some of the burdens. It was, however, astonishing, so as to be scarcely eredible, how little was the difference peace had made. The whole expenditure of the year 1820 was 75- millions. The whole expenditure of 1806 was only 79 millions and a half; being a relief in the sixth year of peace from what might be called the twelfth of war of only four millions and a half.— Comparing the year 1820 with 1804, which might be consider ed one of the most expensive years of the war, being 76 mil lions, it would be found that it was only one million more than the expenditure in the sixth year of peace. The reve nue _in the same way for 1820 was a fraction ander 60 mil lions—in 1821, it was 61 millions. On this subject he must observe, that the increase in the Irish Revenue was not of that flattering description the Chancellor of the Exchequer would have them believe. Independent of an accidental circum stance, which contributed to its rise last year, it would be found that itwas £500,000 less than it was two years before. The net revenue of 1818 was four millions and a half; in 1820 it was three millions and a half; and in 1821, it was a fraction under four millions. Of the 61 millions, therefore, raised from taxes, independent of leans, it was plain that Ireland had not contri buted any great share. He estimated the revenue at this, se parate from allowance, discounts, and drawbacks, all of which were, in one shape or another, returned to the* channel they came from—he only considered the additional expence of col lecting and managing. That sum this year would be one mil lion more, making no allowance for the change in currency, than it was in 1806. Thus were they reduced to the deplor able condition of allowing the people to be drained of more in one case, and but little less in the other, than had been wrung from them to support the expenditure of the heaviest years of that expensive war. This, it was to be observed, depended in no degree on the changes in currency, to which important sub ject he was about to call their attention; and he begged the House to bear in mind, that the greatest mischief was their having ever departed from the standard. In what he was about to state he pledged himself that he would not assume a single datum which-was not sanctioned by the Reports of the Bullion Committee of 1810 and 1819, and even proved by do cuments subjoined to them. In 1800 the bullion price of gold was 31. 17s. 111}d. when the market price was 41. 55., being a depreciation of 9 1-10th per cent. It afterwards fell, and fluc tuated ; and of these fluctuations his complaints were not the least. They had been ruinous to all except those who dealt in money ; and so great and sudden were they in some instances, that in one year there was a fluctuation of 30 per cent. This was a state of things which, in the face of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and of the House, who supported in a mo tion, in 1814, that the Bank note was not depreciated when it was worth but 165., lie would venture to say no well-regulated Government would allow to subsist for one month, and which theyprided themselves in having kept alive for almost ten or twelve years. But to return to the price of bullion in the years 1811 and 1812. In those years the market price was 41 194 nd. upon the average, being a depreciation of 27 in ' the hundred. The revenue fe: those years was about 73 mil lions and a half. To ascertain, therefore, how much money the revenue amounted to, they must diminish that sum at the rate of 27 per cent.; for it must be estimated in depreciated currency. That rate of decrease upon the whole sum amount ed to 19,890,0001. which brought it down to 53,700,0001. ; so that in the years 1811 and 1812, the people of this country paid eight millions less in go ld th an in the presentyear,and seven millions less than they did last year. Taking it at the minimum seventeen per cent. it still made that we pay one million more this ydar than in those years of war. That time, it was , to be observed, was no time of rest in any part of the world. Throughout the whole of Europe a war was raging, of a nature and to an extent till then unknown.— Every sea was covered with our fleets ; every port was filled with our expeditions, and every Court full of our subsidies. —We had to sustain the shock of great battles abroad ; our shores were encompassed with perils, and whilst we were not free from dissentions at home.—(Hear, hear, hear f)e- When they compared those times with the present, and saw that the sums which supported us through the one were now required to maintain us in the other, they must feel ashamed at the burdens which were wrung from the people. He would take the most expensive years, 1813, 1814, 1815—those years of inordinate profusion ; and what must the House think, he asked, when they found that it was not more true than that two. and two made four, that this present year we were paying in taxes as much as was wrung from us in those ex travagant times ? So, however, it was from the effect of de preciation in the currency. The price of bullion then, was 51. an ounce, causing a depreciation of 281 per cent., and if they reduced the Revenue from 84 millions and a half to what it would have been if levied in bullion, they must deduct 23 millioneand a half, which -brought the average of the years 1813-14-15 to 61 millions, being the amount at par, which they now heard the Chancellor of the Exchequer boasting he raised from the people. He did not mean to charge the Committee of! 1819 with having brought about th e res t ora ti on o f t h e stan d ar d of currency. Gold was then at 41. 3s. per oz answering to a depreciation of G 1-3 d per cent. which the Committee at least effected. So that by the operation of the measures of that Committee the taxes had been raised 4 millions and a half more that year, pretending they did not mean to - raise them at all. And this was the period, which were it not fresh in their reccl lection it would be wholly incredible to believe, that the Chan cellor of the Exchequer chose, and that House supported him, to impose three millions of new taxes to grind the people down to the earth.—(Hear !)—They aimed the blow in the dark, for no man could say what the depreciation would be, therefore could not know what were the amount of the burdens he was imposing. What he wished the House to k ee p i n v i ew was, that estimating the mint and market priceS, without interfering with any of those differences respecting the currency, which ex isted amongst so many persons, the taxes that are levied now, are though nominally less, in reality as heavy as in the periods he had alluded to. There was great difference of opinion as to the effect of taxation.on the prosperity of the country. He world not then stop to inquire into these points. There were some upon which all men were agreed. The first was, that a great expenditure of the capital of a country by Government, had the necessary effect of raising prices ; and that not merely during the time the expenditure was gping on, but for a short time after it had ceased. It was plain that this was the case, because that money must either be taken from the income, , or from the accumulated capital. If from the income, it pre vented accumulation. If from the accumulated capital, it de stroyed that capital. According to an indispensible rule the profits of stock were greater or less in an inverse ratio to their proportion. The consequence was, that a dinihiution had the necessary effect of increasing prices. The same might be said with respect to hi e xes. It could not be denied that a tax took from the comfort in proportion as it diminished the capital. But it was equally true that it did so much more so by the number of levying it. Thus when a tax was raised, he who first ad vanced it must increase his capital, or decrease his transactions in trade in proportion. According to this, the maltster or brewer who formerly had his malt at ten shillings and sixpence, which was afterwards raised, in .1819, to twenty-eight shillings, must have a greater capital in the latter case to purchase the materials necessary to carry on his business, or he must confine his transactions within the limits of his capital. This therefore operated directly to the exclusion from trade of the smaller capitals, and the consequence was that the larger ca pitals were better off, and the public worse. For it kept down competition, and also a decrease of accumu l a ti on an d a r i se i n prices. The fact of the frequent petitions that came to that . House whenever it was proposed to take off a tax, was a proof of what he advanced. Clue was the case when it was proposed to take off the leather tax formerly. The great dealers who did not care a farthing for the smaller dealers, wished to perpe tuate the tax. The language used on these occasions was al ways sure to bring down encoiniums from the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the patriotic Gentlemen, whose self-interest, regardless of all the world beside, led theM to hold it. In almost every new tax the consumer was made to pay con siderably more than the amount of that tax. If in the tax there happened to be a fraction, it was made even by the producer. He charged also for the decrease in consumption consequent upon the increase in price, and also for the interest of the increased capital required. Thus did it go on in a geometrical ratio of infliction on the consumer, and this was the real cause of the vast amount of distress. They had seen the enormous expenditure, and the manner of levying taxes on the people they must see, from the particular operation of these causes, that the burden fell heaviest on the landed in terest. To prove . this, suppose in the year 1790, when the taxes were only 13 millions, a landholder with 10,0001. to be comfortably off, it was plain that his comfort would fall short, when instead of his proportion of 18 millions, he had to pay his proportion of GO millions. But he would suffer incalculably more than other classes, for he suffered as a consumer in com mon with others, but also as a producer, in proportion as it cost more to produce from the high prices caused by taxation: Thus he paid more as a consumer, and received less as a producer. The expence of producing since 1792 heel increased fourfold, which had left little to marvel at that the agricultural classes were distressed. The remedy which some had propoSed was to lessen rent. He honoured the feelings which dictated the proposition, but in his view itwas a remedy inadequate to the relief of the farmers.—(Hear, spear!)-'Though, ruinous to the landlord who should make that reduction, it would not effect wally relieve the tenant. With regard to the article of wheat, the market price did. not remunerate the farmer for growing it. He feared it was impossible to raise the price, but if the cost r.F cultivation were reduced, it would serve the grower just as well as if the price were raised.—( Hear, hear, hear !)--H e need hardly remind the House of the rise in the cost of produc tion since 1792. He was happy, however, to find, , that the price of labour had fallen back since 1813, about half the amount of the rise since that period. He believed that that which could be obtained in 1813 for 15s. could now be got for 10s, or 12s. That grain could be grown for so little as one half what the production of it cost before the war, he denied,- and when the Poor Rates were added, it would appear to be still farther from it. It had been affirmed that these taxes in their pressure affected all equally with the farmer; but it was a question with him whether the same taxes pressed so severe ly no any other two classes as upon the farmer. The farmer was more exposed to the operation of circumstances he could not. contcoul than either the manufacturer or trader. A tax coming upon a' falling market was injurious to the grower particularly, who was unable to shift it on the con sumer. The farmer was at the mercy of the seasons, which seldom or never affected the other two classes. The evil of low prices was attended by a natural remedy in increased con sumption, and the one would always counteract the other, if it were not for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. But'it in variably happened, that between the evil and its natural re medy, stepped in the tax-gatherer. Malt at one time suf fered a tax of thirty-four shillings a qUarter. It was now 2 shillings, the prime cost of the barley being 21 shillings. A fall in barley took place of ss. when, if there had been no Chancellor of the Exchequer, the quarter of barley would have. come down to 20s. equal to a - diminution of one-fifth of the price, and there would have been a proportionable increase in consumption to make up for the loss. But the tax be ing added to the precise .cost,- the- fall was from 555. to 50s. making the diminution one-eleventh instead of one-fifth, so that the grower was subjected to a loss of one-fifth, and bene fited by the natural remedy only in the proportion of one eleventh. Here the figures were accurate, for the fact was consonant with the calculation. The consumption of malt for the five years ending 1797 was three millions and a half of quarters. The - consumption for a similar period, upon the average of the three years preceding the last, 1818, 1819, 1820, was only 2,920,000, being a falling off of between I-6th afid 1-7th. Were there any circumstances to explain this ? There was one which instead of accounting for it, tended to strengthen' his reasoning. Instead of a diminution then ought to have been an. increase, if a great increase in population could have any effect that way, .The increase 'in poptiletion from '1792 to this year,a period of thirty years, was about four millions of souls; in the proportion of ten, to fourteen of the whole population. Yet in the consumption of malt there was a falling off of from one.sixth to' one-seventh, instead of an in crease in the proportion of five to . seven. This, he thought, spoke wonders as to the effect of taxation to diminish consump . - ton, and no man he hoped would after this hesitate to admit that the farmer was differently situated in the community from other classes ' as regarded taxation. All articles, the taxation upon which affected, the price of wages lor labour, fell . with their full weight upon the agriculturist. The taxes which caused an increase in the price of labour in other branches of industry, such as manufactures, might be evaded by machi nery, whiche it would* be . found, was always brought into use as the price of labour increased. The farmer, however, was obliged to pay for all in hard'money and hard labour. When the farrner attempted to evade the evil, by employing horses, he was met by an agricultural horse tax. He reeeived this with meekness and tranquillity, and went on suffering without complaining, through a series of years ; and it was only last . year that an effectual effort was made to shake it off When the Right Hon. Gentleman (th e Ch an cellor of the Exchequer) wished, however, to cope with machinery, he proposed a tax on iron. He knew of no way of taxing the article itself, and therefore was obliged to go to its ingredients. He was unable to grapple with the steam, or they would have had a steametax as wellas a horse tax.—(A laugh.)—But that was too subtle even for him, thank Heaven. But the proposal to tax iron was not met in the quiet way the horse tax was. No, the Right Hon. Gentleman was beset with swarms of iron-men from the iron countries—hard men; not. so malleable as their commodities, who, morning, noon, and night, kept up the din about the Right Hon. Gentleman's ears,and completely destroyed his rest. Nay, he remembered the lobby of that House was quite beleagured by them, and every night they were exposed to the pelting of this pitiless storm of iron sleet.—(Loughter.)—They had never since heard any thing about this tax. How the iron -men, and the tax-men had settled it together he knew not ; but so it was. Then there was the burden of the poor rates which the farmer had to support. These had risen two millions since 1791. The only means of meeting the distress of this class, and of all others, was by rsfiucing the taxes.—(Hear !)—They must di minish the total , not by one million, or a million and a half, but by such a sum as should allow the farmer and the other classes in the community to live. This pressure of taxa. Lion had now reduced the country to such a state, that it had become absolutely anti indispensably necessary.—(Hear, hear !)—He had shewn that, under the name of paying less than in former periods, they- were actually paying more. All that prospect of consolation held out to them during the war to seduce them to endurance, had vanished. Peace had come, but not with a reduction of taxes. It had not brought with it its healing wings. Taxes, though nominally less, were in reality more. If it were otherwise, anti people were only' nominally poorer, it was in the power of that House to relieve them. This led him to remark that he entertained a great dif ference of opinion on the subject of the operation of the cur rency, from that of many persons in that House. Ile had not been a Member of the Committee of 1819. Not that he re fused—more probably he was unfit to take part in its . discus sions. It had seemed good to those who selected that Com mittee to exclude his views from that body, and it had seemed good to the House to sanction their objects by a refusal of him. The reasons for,their so doing he did npt mean to question, for he felt himself infinitely honoured by the rejection of his Ma jesty's Ministers.—(Hear !)—Because it was not the first time they had exercised that discretion in the same way by exclud ing one of the greatest men that had ever adorned that House, in the year 1792 (Mr. Fox), for precisely the same offence. He lamented the effects of the policy of 1797, which altering the currency, had distorted all the affairs of the country, so that no man could tell what he was actually worth from week to week, and from month to month. This had produced evil from the beginning, and continued so at its ending. He could not say that he clearly saw his way through the difficulties which Minis ters had had to encounter. Always admitting that they had had but a choice of evils, and of great evils, he thought sufficient attention had not been paid to the effects of largely augment. ing the interest of the debt., The attention of the Govern ment had been too much confined to the evils on one side. A great, a saving relief would be produced, especially to that class now most aggrieved, by a large red uc tio n o f t axes . No thing that might fall from him was to be regarded as shaking this theory, for he thought there was no man in 'or out of that House, who did not feel from the bottom of his heart, that the great - source of relief, to which we must all look, was a re duction of the public burdens. He did not believe that when all the relief that could be thus afforded had been given, that all, the evils complained of would cease. The taxation must be reduced, as its pressure went to the very ex istence of no less a body than the landed interest of England. It was none of the least of the evils, growing out of the system of 1797, that besides the increase of debt, it led.to speculations among individuals, to speculations in commerce, and specula tions among professional men, limited of course ; but men were led into speculations into which they never would have en tered, had the currency remained in a healthy state, but above all among the agricultural classes. These lie shewed to be most injurious. Over-produce he admitted to be one of the evils at present to be lamented, but this was not confined to the agricultural classes; the manufacturers felt this as well._ Within the last thirty years the improvethents of machinery in cotton factories enabled one man to do as much as 100 men could do :formerly. Great improvements had taken place with respect to agricultural machinery, but one man could not now produce as much corn as 100 men could formerly raise. The burden thrown on the country. by the loans obtained was im mense. Every man who formerly lent 501. could not now. he paid off but by 1001. In 1798, the three per cents. were at 47. Much had been lent at between 50 and 60, and many hundreds of millions had from 60 to 70. On these there was an advance of 25 per cent. in hard cash. He shewed that the gains of the farmer during the war were not left untouched. His rent rose, the prices of all. articles were advanced, and a tax was devised which alone of all the taxes—those on stamps excepted, im posed an ad valorem duty which followed his income through all its risings. Induced to speculate in land, the farmer had purchased at what Was then the price current. The land so ourchased he must now sell at the price to what that descrip tion of property had fallen in consequence of a return to me tallic currency, or be unablo to sell at all—he must' hold it and be ruined. lie shewed that while'rents were enormously reduced the same or nearly the same taxes were still to he borne, and thence drew the inference that to relieve the 'landed interest the taxes must be greatly reduced. After all the relief that could thus be afforded the agricultural classes would still have, to straggle with great difficulties, and he did not hesitate to say, that they must go on till the relief afforded proved really sufficient. If all the reductions that could possibly be made' in the taxes did not prove sufficient, so intimately was landed interest bound .up with the existence of the country, that to accomplish the object in view they must be prepared to adopt other measures—Measures which 'could only be justified by paramount unreasoning necessity._ (Hear, hear.)-:.-To tamper with public faith—to sully the ho- • nonr of the country—to declare a national bankruptcy! Good God ! Could any one recommend such a m easure ii it 'could be avoided ? Certainly not. Nor would any one wish to alter the. denomination of our, currency • but if necessity, w h o s e mandate was imperative, de man d e d it, even such measures must not be spurned, and he should say a case of necessity was made out, if the English landholder were to remain per manently depressed in any thing like the- degree in whic h he was depressed at present. He eloquently set forth the misery, and rum which must grow on the decay of the landed interest ; he trusted the evils he contemplated might be averted and re ' lieved without having recourse to a measure from which every one must recoil—compounding with the creditors, or tamper ing with the currency of the State. To effect this large redsic tions must be made. It was not enough that a few poor Clerks were dismissed, but Ministers must begin to retrench with the highest, and go down to the lowest of those employed; in the service of the public. It was not 10 or 15 per cent. that would do. He would not say to what extent.the reductions should be made, but such as had taken place in the last year would not sa tisfythe public. He complained of the want ofeconomy on the part of Ministers. In consequence of the cessation of the In come Tax offices -had been reduced to the amoun t o f 1,500 L per annum, but allowances had been granted to these who retired, exceeding the scale laid down in Mr. Perceval's Act, that but 3001. per annum had been saved to the public. At the seine time he remarked augmentations in the expenditure had taken place, and the salaries of the Commissioners of the Cu - toms,'Excise, and Stamp Duties, had been increa se d i n li eu of patrol - age-Which was said to be taken from them. -In the office of the President of the Board of Controul; a Gentleman in consideration of his retaining a godd situation for five years had been requited with an increase of salary. His income was raised from 1,8001. to 2,0001., and when instead of holding the situation five years, lie had enjoyed it seven, he. was far. • Cher rewarded with an additional 2,0001. Such, was the economy of .the present Ministers. It was necessary to re trace their steps to save the country from splitting on the rock of national bankruptcy. , The Government had before them bin a choice of evils—to declare the country insolvent. and regulate its fonds accordingly, or to make .those large retrenchments which he recommended. Nothing else cou4 save the country. He called upon tbe llo use .not laid an ear to any proposal for aiding the Landed Inte rest by increasing the facilities of borrowing. This would - stbject them to the only plague which they had escaped, excise rocess, and would aggravate the evil it was intended to re- • needy: But above all, he cautioned them against listening te • any proposition for shifting the taxes from one class to another, for this would-only lead- to the re-introduction of the odious . home Tax- . ; and that once regained, the Government- could:: aus:nent it to extort' any sums they might require to sustain s ther extravagance. He should nesperforay his duty ,without eating on the COuntry Gentlemen' no longer to trusethe vision. arcs who had so often misled them. In closing these obser vatons, lie could not put the mbtio n , with which h e s h ou ld conclude, without guarding himself 'against misrepresentation.. Hhresolution would bind no man to any particular amount of induction, or - to any particular mode of, retrenchment.-- . It bond them to no particular line of conduct with respect eo anyme. impost or with respect to the Sinking Fund. Every. Meaber, whatever his sentiments on pal-6611er points, might vote7or it, with the exception of those who thought any other nostums than reduction of taxationwould cure the evil,. and who were resolved, under all circumstances, to defend the 'preset expenditure.. Its conclocled by moving That it is tie bounden duty of this House well to consider the presare of the public burdens on all daises, but more espe-_ ciall)on the agricultural classes, with a view to obtain for the suffeing people of this realm, such a diminution of taxatiati