The Sun. — London, England, 1804-04-24 00:00:00

„ k 7 1: ‘fir !';UMBER 3620.] THE SUN. SOLEM QUIS DICERI.PALSUM AUDZAT LONDON, APRIL 24, 1804. Wz Congratulate the ommons last night, C itountry upon the event o f t h e Debate in t h e House of C immediately lead to the removal of His Nfairtty sent Ministers; indeed we Understand, trent: •• atithoritY upon which we place the _greatest reliance, that itontrteroN, in an audience which he had of tsr y on Saturday, after laying hethre Hts MA J-s Ir . ) , the difficulties under which he and his Colle.agues bboured, and their being able an y longer .to., the utte r impossibility of , coudua the affairs of the Empire . against .the formidable opposition ttey had to encounter,' desired to reetive - His Majesty's direCtions to form a New Administration, of which we have no doubt but that Mr. ! ) yr, p, in compliance with the almost unanimous wishes of the Country, will be placed at the head. IMPERLIL PARLIAMENT. H ) USE OF COMAtUNS. MONDAY,- APRIL .23. 4 DEFENCE -OF THE--COUNTRY. Mr. FOX being called upon by the Speaker, rose, and spoke to the following - efrea :—" Sir I am afraid I shall find it necessary, to , make Many preli- Ininary observations bef ore I come to the Motion which i shall have the honour of submitting to you, or to - those topics to which I wish particularly to Call the attention of the House. ose pnar Observations appea r to me Peculiarly necessary relimi in the y present instance, .on account of the ccrnttruclion which has taken place both in and out of the HOuse, of the spiri t and ken/ (as His Majesty's Ministers are p le aSed to call it), for the Defence of the Country which animates all elttises of people, under the err. sent circumstance - ef the 'Ceuntry. . As to the zeal which they state is feit by all classes of people for the Defence of the C.ountry, this I fully agree with them, must at the present momen t be the .ge neral r eeling "91 the People of this O COuntry ;but 1 mest mak e a geese distirtftioll, which t h ey apPe i tr to. Overlook ; I must distinguish that aaal._. , wilich I trust that I f ee l a gly a; any of His Majesty's s u bj a d s 14 the-Defence stron Of the Cou n t ry against 113 ' for eignEnemies fur the tupport of its honour -and the maintenance of its glory-a—fro that zeal w Ilia Mit'sty's Ministers wish to Constnle i"hirl " approbation of the War, and of rheir`method of and tonduiling it. The z ea l t h at I feel foe "the interests in hnnnur of the Country, ; involved .as it now is a War of the most serious and alarming na, Oture, is . not at all allied tti any approbation the conduCt of Governeriene in b r i ng i ng on the W. or the. means . they have tak en to eon . CA it ; t he zeal which I feel upon the preffent occasion is that, which I trust animates the great mass of the Natio n : it is a zeal not fur those causes which induced Ministers to enter into the War, but a zeal for self-defence on the part of the Coun try--for the defence of themselves, their families; and every thing which is dear to them. It is with this feeling, that I too declare m ferio r t o any of I:-Ii,,Majest }self not i n . O übjetis in zeal for the D e f ence of the Country ; but S I pioteat against this feeling being su far misconstrued, as to be stip posed to imply any approbation of the War;of the causes which Ministers have alledged for.entering into i t — of the time that they has, chosen for the War, or of the mcasur'ett thee-have management in the 12 must of i t . jai be pursued recolleded, tha t t h e esent War was, almost trona its commenceme nt , a w , a in which this C ountry was threatened with Invasion•in su c h a sase, it was not extraordinary that eve r ; y man should feel a zeal:to defend his home, . his country, his friends, hissamily, and himself from the impending danger,. It was on - that account that the Nation appeared so tmanirrrons ; but I . sliall beg leave to ask to what is this Seeming unanimity atscribable ? Surely it is only to the dange r which now threatens, more than at any former period, the existence of the Country, and the welfare of all its Inhabitants. Are Ministers then to take credit to thcanselves for producieg unanimity in . this manner if so, the Ministers who shall in. the Countty in the greatest of dangers (unne cessarily), may always claim the praise ut being the best Ministers ; for certainly. when the Country is once involved in. War, and pliinged in danger, every bod y mu st be unanimous in wishing the War to end successfully, and the dange r to be surmounted. if this sort of unanimity were lobe the test of a good Administration, it wo uld then follow, that they were the hest Ministers who should be the most forward to plunge the Country into such a situation that every person must be unanimous, in wishing to extricate it from ; but if we take the pains of examining this unanimity, which Governmentboasts :that it has produced, we shall find - that in this Howie, notwith't al' ,S an ing the 'large tnajortty ' which .supported the Address. at the commencement of the . ,•, Present at.. yet . that many parts dr the conduEt of . 2 ~ W. which . . His vilajeaty'a Ministers, both- in the causes .., • they assigned for the War, the time they had chosen for it, but principally in the crintluft of the Negotia tions which preceded it, it, {iv tit) means met the gneral approbation of the Member s of this House. Several Members had expressed their disap.ornha, than of the conduft, of Ministers on those points, yet they did not oppose the Address which was then • .. voted; I therefore deprecate on t Hun he part of my. Fri en d s , as well as m' struEtion o f t h e unani mity yself, that unfair con then expre sse d b y t h e Vote of the House, and th at zeal, which I profess to D feel as warmly .as any mania the Country for its etetice, by whichit might be. implied that we ever sanctionel the caudal, of Ministers-, either ii the Er • N . . ,• ever, is iiirlre plab i sible than well founded ; for; n pit of fan, His Majesty's Ministers do take op portunities, day after day, of *taking statements to the House of the number of the Army, and if their assertions are true, no more , information *t'uld be given by. granting the, doruments';: btit Parliament.. mustreceive flinch more satisfaßion froM the pro. duaion of those documents . , than from the assertion .of any Minister. It was pow in the pow - e‘r of iny_ r:6on who ple.ased, to know the number of ate. gonents employed, and also their distribittion, hitt it was not easy for indivitlhals to know whe, titer those iteginients, were full, or whether they were on a small establishment ; and yet this. Was,a, .piece of information which it absoltitely ne, cessary for the House to be possessed of; .. he forotheY. could pronounce whetlwr. the Regular Army, as it now exists, was or Was not equal' to that which Parliament intended they-.shoUld be. I 'haveheard it. stmed by His' Majesty's :`Ministers, that. the Re. gular Fiireeicir the defence of Ireland is equal .tr;t wb,st ic was at the ,e.onclusitin ire' the "last, ar Most confess, r cannot readily brintonyself to be. lieve that statement, when 1. recalled that.there was at that time not less' than from so to 60,000' Re. guiars and Militia; and finally, in Ireland, exclu. sive of the Regiments of Militia in that Country; at that time, too, I know; that the Artil., lery Estdblishinent of. Iteland,.Anclacling horses; drivers, S,:e. was more Considerable than' it is at :the present time. I do not, -howevet, know that a comparison With any particular period of the last War can give a Ssiisfattory result •-at present ; the ! comparison should rather be made with respect to the danger that now threatens, compared with the, danger of former tlinca. , I may he told, that if my advice had been followed; the Establishment of the Regular Army would be tinich smaller than it now is. I deny that this is a fair infeience from any opinion ever delivered by me ; die question is widely different ‘ between a Peace' -Eitablishnient (which was what I spoke of) and an Establishment fit to meet such a War as the'present. When - Mini. stets formerly asked for a very high Peace Esta blishenent, they did not ask,for it on the ground of the continuance of Peace being -doubtful. Had they even hinted such an apprehension, I would not have given the .least opposition. Whatever may be my opinion of the proper Establishment for a Peace, I know that large Regular Armies are fleets. sary in the cominencehent of every War, and more particularly in such.a War as the present. I am a decided triend isiprincipleand in theory tothe Mili. tia System of the Cotintry ; but however warmly approve of the system as a constitutional defence, will not say that I consider the. Militia 'altogether equal to the Regular Army : not to speak of the difference in the Officering, there certainly is, and ever Mdst . be, a great difference betiseen Regiments who hate iiever seen .attual service, and - those who have. As :a the recruiting of the Regular Artily; we are Soinetintes told .that, the Recruiting Service has hitherto gone in well, notwithstanding the - competi_ tion it experienced from the Militia and Army of Re. suit. it was indeed not improbable, that in the first year of a War, when the commencement has necessa_ lily injured, in some degree, our commercial and manufacturing speculations, that a number of Regi ments might always be formed from the sultans who were throirn out-of employment ; but it could never be expeeted, by any rational man, that it would be possible to tempt recruits; fora bounty of ten pounds, to go into the Regular Army for life, AvhileAhttc. was „another person at his elbow offer. ing to offer his services, both for a'llierted time lithited extent. In my opipi'on, the recruiting for th'6 Regular Army has neYershadilair.pfay, and measure's might have been adokited, rthich would : very eapidly' hate increased thislitat important nail :of the National Defence. But fi . S.liat•has: tli.silajes'tY'sMiniSters now resolved upon r . latilseein to. confess ther measures they have taken' ACts:theyhave brought in, have itnpeded,4err etiisidelabLy;;. the recruiting fig the . rmyy ;aria to "suspend the Atiit, of Reserve Ad. 4 . but the same time that, they liANtetettrivett upon this_Measuie, they still 4ohtinii: another -evil;,•-wvhich :must operate most perWittply in impeding the recruiting service—they still - cO l & - ttintietti create A- cornivrit4in.in the' market ; yvhi . ely,atstrititilr destroys .all hopes of sheers'. I 'hate Siri . taied.sortie of the defe4s to which the 'SisteM of 'Defence adopted by his ''Ma jesty's Ministers appears ,liable, and shall'ahere.. fore proceed to state in what manner ir:appears to me that those , defects may be remedied, and 3 system *adopted sufficient for the perrhanent De.: fence of the Country. In the first place, Sir, ,:we si;ould leave tiff that strange and unseemly ciitorn , by whicii 'this Nation only, of all the N4tionSin En_ inpe, enliits its Soldiers for //le.. What - must be thought of this pradice in any other Country ? What. Must those Nations think, which have them. selvelkept up at all times the highest Military Eitablishnients,' should they pear that England, a Nitioir whose Military Establishment' was compa.. titively 'Mall, and that was, besides, esteemed the firit Country upon earth, should yet, in its .Military SiiteM, think it necessary to buy men to'be in a manner stiletto/Sr life, while all 'other Continental 'lsrationii - were contented with enlisting their Soh. diets for a limited number of years ? I have never yet heard asingle Military Man,.among the numbers I have conversed with on this subjed, who did not agree that it would be infinitely better to enlist men:for a certain number of years than , to enlist *them for lift, .as is now the pradice in this Conn. try. Sanetioned, then, by their opinions, I shall pronounce confidtntly, thita change in the terms of enlisting Soldiers fur the Regular Army, is not only a idling - : which ought to be done, but it is a thing Is More indispensably necessary now than at fovea tisies . * '4nriaatitth as , there nevea was a time 1,`,1 i fPRICE SIXPENCE. when greater facilities were required in raising Re cruits for the Army.- I can speak of one instance, within my knowledge, which prM-es the difference which Recruits mike Between ensering into a ser- vie: for - life and a service limited for -a certain terra of,- year - i . i' a . yatoligri of the Army of Re4e.:ye haa• ettliuyt tigatiintausir offeitil their service in the Re:. ..gptar Army, 13 nosldiOon that their services should be fora liinited term of years. This offer was re. _fused. This is a prattical evil, and no theory of mine. -- Every person Of 'common sense; and mare especially' every person residing in . the country; most ,feel and know: th..t, acc , rding to the system hi 'A,' for tha prevails e recruitin g the _!_egu_ar nti!',al,ttatiesnw, a manufa(turer, or -hardly a lahoorer'in the country (however ivoor or ,distressed lie inity be), that. does not consider his son's enterin into' Tr Regular Army as his ut et ruin, lrittl the Cotriplete annihilation of every pros. pe& of hapiiinesi which hesbefote possessed: There, . . is rim persyn tyho, Fai'not seen,. nut .pnly wbeping • _.mothert,tneweeping fathers also, 'following those recruiting parties, and offering the whole of their sub. stance to purchase their son's dischatge-e-to release their child from a condition that, in the`eyes of - the 'poorest labourer, appears utter de . Strutlion. There is another circumstance in the recruiting, as it is 'now carried - on, which 'is not only.conrrary to every prin_ ciple of reason, but to the established principles of the Law of England.. By the Law of England, as at nowitarkg, 'no yoting. titan, under •the age of zr, can 'dispoSe of hiS. property .;_and Upon the same prin. ciple WhiCh 'prevented (hub , front disposing, of theft' priiiierty,.‘ .. th Marriage ,-Act has also declared them incapable ofdisposing at their persons, in the ritderiage - contrad, without:consent of parents and „ guardians ' - and" yet by Recruiting System, in A moment of rashness and,• intoxication, a vomit, whom the laws would not allow to-dispose of either his property, or his person in marriage, may have his person and his personal' liberty for ever and irredeemably lost. This was a, great evil,' which sprung from no necessity, but which was the result of an absurd system which prevailed in this Cour try, and in no.other in the Civilized world; all Mi. litary Men cOndetrined the praftice, and the evil Might not only be alleviated, but entirely done away. Was the service changed to a period • of seven years, instead of for life, .no reasonable father would feel the `pangs .he now experiences When be hears his child has entered into the Regular Army : he would cOmfOrt himself for the separation, by the hopes of again seeing his son return home improved in every :respeo. With a few arrangements, which could he easily made, the Recruiting Service would no longer be the terror of fathers and mothers, and would, at 'the same time, be infinitely more produdive of good. Soldiers to the Nation.. I have not given any oppo, aition to the different Bills which Ministers have . thought proper to bring in for the Defence of the Country. .They have their Volunteers, their Army of Reserve, and their Levy ca Maw MI ; 'all I ask is, that now they have come to the end of all the Inca. sures they have been able to devise . for the safety of the Country, that they will now give us leave to sug gest what may appear to us to be still necessary for i ts def e nce. We must consider that now a long time has elapsed since that Message which was the pre. hide to hostilities, and yet all the measures which they have been able to think of have now ended in this, that they find it is still necessary to raise an additional Force, and they, do not know how to set about it, without recurring to a principle and praEtice which has been unanimously condemned, namely, that of' raising new Regiments, by giving. military rank th those who can raise men, When all their plans for recruiting have, therefore, ended in recurring to a praaice universally condemned, -. it ii time Char we' should consider whether a bet, ter and more permanent System'Of recruiting may not be resorted to. I should propose two great radical improvements ; ist, The_alteration from the system of enlisting recruits for life, to that of enlisting them for a tertn of years. 231 y, I should propose . to take away entirely that competition in the Market,' which the measures of the present Ad... ministration has created.' These are the prin.. cipal nbservatiOna which occur to • me on the first.. • head of the Defence of 'the •Crientry, namely, its Regular Army. I conic now tri the consideration 4f-hat Force %vhich; .. . in any opinion, would be the best.suited to.co-Operite iothe most efficacious man. net...with our ,RegOlar Armies; 'which -I propose to be considerably increased, by the method of-re. mailing:l:have before pointed out.. I shall not em• ter. into the consideration of the conduit of Govern. .men.t to , .vards theVolunfeers ; how they fought with them, ilia, by inch, in• every Aft of :Paella. ment and Clause they brought in how far. they let tered their exertions by'un wise and injudicious regu. latinns ; or how far they endeavoured to,thwart their energy and damp their spirit ; in this, I will say, 'however, that they ever could succeed, because the spirit - of the Volunteers is fourided,on that national . xeal which every man must feel for the defence of himself, his family, his pr6perty, , and his Ctuintry, againit the Invasion of a foreign Enemy. I must," hoWever, without in any degres undervaluing the .spirit and discipline of .the Vo lunteer), or the services which• might be expefteri from them against - an Enemy, deClare that it is my opinion, that a much more general and eXtertive system of arming, than has yet been resorted to, is necessary in the present times. I am for an Armed Peasantry, or rather for an Armed Nation, I have heard. the epithet. " smock.frocked gentry," and others intended to express.contempt, applied to the Peasantry. I - do not think any expression of con- Tempt ought to be diteeted against those who form the population of this Country, and in whom the • national charaCter resides. I will not pretend to say, - that Peasants, armed and disciplined' the way h should teCoranientip would be able to TUESDAY, APRIL 24., 1804. War itself, or in the circumstances which led to the War. Having stated so fully these preliMinary observations, which it appeared to me necessary to snake , I have now only one objeetion to clear away, before I enter at large into the exposition of my sentiments on the general iti'neC 3 / 4 of the De., fence of the Country. His Majesty's Ministers are sometimes pleased to 'reproach Gentlethen with feel. ing a sort of panic of Invasion'. Vow, Sir, as far as. I understated‘ the 'tercet, , the word panic conveys my mind the idea of that Sort vi fear which rather indoceSmen to run away from danger than 'to oppose it. lam sure that lam possessed by no fear. of that:' sort ; and instead of wishing to run aw.ay..or shrink from the dangers of Invasion, or the., difficulty the present question involves, I; oil the tontrary, wish to dired the attention of the House to meet. that danger, and, take the surest Methods of averting it trom the Country ; I will therefore by no means allow myself to be one of those whom His Majesty's Government are pleased, todescribe asparr;e.strrick through fear of the threat., ened Invasion. , Although I.' know there ate many Gentlemen in this Hone 'who consider thn fear t tlt Invasion as a mere Whim, and who treat the danger as truly ideal, and such as barely-exists in nossi. bility, I cannot - hovever, after the declarations of 'His MajeSty's"klitiiiters' tn the contrary, and after the accounts of the Enemy's ptepatotiOns Which we have received from other chorine's, bring myself to think so lightly of the dangers to which we are now exposed. At another time we are told that France must invade this Country ; that she has no. thing else to do, and.. that she will otherwise be covered with shame, and degraded in the estimation of all the other Powers in Europt!* Now, Sir; I neither feel that degree of confidence on the subject which those Gentlemen express, who conceive the danger of Invasion to be purely imaginary, nor yet .do I altogether agree with those who re. present so strongly, that it is absolutely necessary for France immediately to put into execution the threatened' Invasion of this Country,: it appears to me that, if they have really well. considered their plan, calculated their means, and resolved upon the attempt, the time of their making their attempt tvill be to them of very little consequence; whether it is made in the first, second, third, fourth, or fifth year of. the War, is to them of very . little moment. If I conceived the danger to be only temporary, I might acquiesce in temporary remedies:;. but when "consider the danger perrna:. nent,,antl•constantly increasing, I must then wish for no. - mere tempottity - expedients, but a permanent system -toolipose a . ptimanerit danger. I 'shall not at 'present speak . of the difficulties under which this Country, now labours, 'the difficulties in respet to Finances, itor the diifictiltiet which Ireland expe riences, both from want'of current ;Coin; and from that Situation of things' which - st!!'lrettliterthat the flabeas . Cor pus .A,CI, shoitid - Ue and that, the' Country should' stilt'be:tivveitittf `fry :Wtairtial Law : perhaps it will be necessary for me at present' to narrow my observations, and confine them mere. ly to that for which I would n'ow wish to have a Committee appointed—The Question of the Defence of the Country. On the Motion that I shall sub. mit tea the House, for the appointment of a Corn. mime to examine this Question, it will certainly be open to every other Hon. Gentleman in the House, who approves of the appointment of such Committee, to state fully upon what grounds he supports the Motion ; as for myself, I,shall not go at length intothe many different points Oa Which. the Defence of the Nation rests. shall mil, for instapce, .say a single word on the state of the. pre, paratioos which have been made for the. Naval De. - fence of the. Country ; neither - should I wish togo at length into.the 'consideration :of the Volunteer' System, although I .shall he obliged to speak of it incidentally. As to,the Volunteers, when con.. sider -the exigency of the, times when• they were raised, and the present..circurnstances, under which they - certainly, do . most poWerfully• contribute to, the security of the Country, and all that has been said and done irk the two Houies . of. Parliament with respea. to their Institution, I should wish not to be obliged to express my opinion 'Of 'the System itself; whether it was good, or :bade we must now make the beat of it; and. I" should wish at present, without toting manyobservittioni'Ort ;the Volun.,, steers, -direct the attention of' the 140)ase. cipally to the other : branches of the Lana Defence. of the . Country; , Which I consider may be re. solved. into two , great leading classes; Ist, the Regular. Army ;-attd, secondly, -- ,the increase of the. Army of Tradesnien, - Arrizans, and Peasants. which would unite r what . had been well called the physical strength of the Country, to the Regu. lir Armies, for its defence. The first of these classes which .naturally presents itself to our considera tion, is the Regular Army.--I have listened with the utmost -attention rO.the statements-of His Ma. jesty's Ministers, of their . number 'and-force;. but when I have heard those statements and those asser tions Majesty's Ministers Often 'confuted, and particularly by an Hon. Colonel who now sits near me (Colonel CaAtrroaPY, I must say, that I wish the House had some better' nfortnation upon the subjed, than the mere asseitiOns of Ministers, Who'one day state our Regular -Force at a certain number, and perhaps, the, shat day state it very dif_ ferently, ..I should wish that the House were fur. nished with documents and proper . materials upon which their judeent might be formed. Ido not see any material objeaion that can be urged against the House being fUlly in formed of the real numiker and. true state of the Regular Army, burl, i n Q reat Britain and Ireland.. l- have indeed often heard it urged, as an objectio n to such sort of itifourration, that it was not proper that the Enemy should' be formed of the exact state of our preparations, and the,strenith of oar Artnies ;. t hi s oNtaion, how. E g'l,'*,, rj-0*.0.:51%-fitil --,----...„..._ i - .•,"...,:-, 74 5):: 1, -.-.,--- ::::•zzy tePt---4 , #.:IY;„, --- 7 - 4. **- 1 n t.4 lllS -- - 1* ;1.----sVAt.' ~7;%y-rd.bokit,.•,-4;,, '6/ ji VI V 4, \-,