The Sun. — London, England, 1801-03-27 00:00:00

- * 0 Aiitit for him to, say, bat certainly he-had afted in a Manner that had no resemblance to shrinking from . ,diffiettlty ; he might say this if he were to strike the seventeen years out of the account, and refer only to what had taken place within the last two, months, and he would venture to alledge that enough had happened within that time, to wipe. off the idea of his being disposed to shrink from „dif ficulty, or wishing to get rid of any respOnsibility.' "What had happened within that period had afforded him , an opportunity of shewing, •a particular manner, that he was willing to he responsible to any extent which his situation cast upon him ; in that particular he had had the good fortune, however :un fortunate the cause,, he was happy he bad, shetvn that he was not only a PartY, but that he was : the deep est of all Parties in responsibility, in the: adoption of a measure - the most critical' %vitt) regard io him self and his Colleagues. He 'was therefore led to say, as to . the 'measure which had induced him -to quit hiS situation, that unless hedid2believe the importance of it, and , the circumst ances by which it was attended, to be such, that wl)ile he remained in office heihould have been unable to bring it for-- ward in theway which was likely 10 'be eventually. successful, and therefore , he judged that he should serve let's hcficfally the Public, as well as the Par ties more immediately the objeas of it, to make the attempt, than to desist from thei measure ; but such was his` idea of th e measure itself; that it was one wilich upon the whole had been better adopted tlran refused under all the circumstances such was also the idea of those who had aeled with him, and they had-therefore thought. it better that they should quit their offices than continue under such eircumstanits, in His Majesty's service. In doing this they had aeled'purely from principle, they had atted in such a mariner as had-satisfied their own minds, which was to them important, and he hoped they had afted in such a'manner as would; one day or Other, be perfeetly satisfaaory to the Public, as far as the Public should ever think it worth their while to be concerned in his conduet. The measure to which he alluded, had he proposed, as at one time he wislied;_ was not one which Gentlemen on the other side . Of the House-were likely to look on lightly, although he .should have the good fortune to have their'support if he had brought it forward, that is on one part, but he did not think That he should' upon the whole 9f it, nor did he believe those Gen tlemen would have faitOured. the - whole of the prin. ciple on which he should have proposed the measure. He was not anxious to have the Question agitated at all at this moment. --." I.do- not think," said he, " that Shia is a period in which it can be agitated beneficially to the Public,'or even to those who are more iMmediately the objects of it, and:-,who are . supposed to be so interested in its'succeas ; but, whenever it is agitated, I shall he ready ifhd 'I - shall be willing to go fully into it,' and to' give at large my opinion on' it." I will say only. atplesent, that as to any thing-=which I an:l my Colleagues ineditat.i ed to bring forward, .1 -disclaim the very woods in common use, •g the ;Emancipation of the CathOlics,' _or Catholic Emancipation.'• I have never under_ stood that subjeft'so—l never understood the situ -ation of 'the Catholics to be such —I do not now - understand the situation of the Catholics to be such as that alit) , relief from it could be correaly dc. scribed, but I think -the feiv remaining - benefits of ' which they have not yet participated, might have added safely. to the 'many • benefits which hd ve. been so bounteously conferred on them in the course of the ,present Reign; I was of opinion ' and lam of opinion, that these benefits, if they ha d gone before the Unidti; 0 - Ould-: have been rash arid destruc tive.—l was ofopinion then,—l am of opinion now, that the very'- Measure I allude ,to, as a claim of right; cakinot be ' maintained, and it is on the - ground of liberality,. alone, and political expedience, and in that sense wisdom', as connected with other measures, I ,should have thought it desirable, ad. viiable and important -;.• but I would not have had it founded on a naked prOpositiOn, to re peal any one 'thing 'which formerly pOliey had deemed expedient for the.safety of the Churdi and State. —.No Sir, it was a comprehensive • and an extensive system which Untended to.propose— .to relinquish things certainly intended once as a 'security, which I thought in some respeel in efFeetual; and which were liable to additional objetlions, from the .very eircums.tanet of, the Union ,, lleving . been - accompl - islied, and getting other security "for thesaine..Objeets, 'to . get a more con. Sistent and rational security both in Church and State,' achording to the'prilciplei , btit varying 'the mode, which .the wisdom dour Ancestors had adopt. ed to prevent danger. measure I intended to propose,. I think would.. give more safety to the, Clutch and State, as well. as More satisfaction to all classes, and ,to all "descriptions - - of the King's SubjeCts; and which would lead any man to adopt, to take away that which no man would wish to remain, provided • there could - pe.rfedi security. without it, and which there was_ power to remove. The I am•sure, forgive me. for this part of my Address to it.—As to whatever might be the nature of the measure, I am, sure the Hotise will in a moment' feel that what I am 'going to alleclge, *ill satisfy, it- the: nothing of this :oature could • ever be accomplished by having a: Committee of the whole House on the State of the-Nation ; for, inde pendent of the many thingi '-whiebewould,be-neces , sary to be done if such a 'Measure' were 'set on foot, there is one thing "Alich will make it obvious how / inefficient for such a .purpose, a Committee on the State of. the Natiou would be ; in the first place, that Committre would .not liAve.any power what ever to interrogate any one „Member of Parliament, and therefore All that ID . art of, the speech or the. lion. Gentleman which tended to conned the Committee on the State . of the Nation, with the condition of _ . the Caiholies in Ireland, althOugh it may. serve,the purpose of engaging men's afFeetions for a moment, bad, in treality; npthirrg whatever to:dd with it;'.and • Gentlemen, are clot sualunovices in the affairs ofPar_ liament, as not taknosi that they. may,whenever;they Tease,. Move this(or any, other sublet% independent of any Other -consideration, •and ., that there is , no ne cessitylbr a !Committee; tO inquire , into, the State of the Nation' • for That purpose.. • I think, however, that the Ouebtion - , with -regard. to. the. con, di t ton .of the Catholics.; according, to my. view :of things, cAnot be:improved by a Committee on the State of the Nation [xi% brought forward.at this time., It will east 118 light whatever on any one subject conneeted e with the Catholic - Question. I am absolutely certain, as little-can it give on the cause, .or the propriety, or impropriety; of our re.- signatioro—this too obirkons, to' require liny asp ment.—How can the Committee. proceed to the examination of the cause of the Resignation of HieMaj . esty's Ministers,. • to which some Gentle_ men, for purposes, perhaps, not very doubtful; haVe heen.pliased , to attach so much importance-?- -I• know of no right' which the 'House of Com mons itself, still less can a Committee, have . to require of ariy man to state his reasons for tendering his resignation to•his Sovereign, not is it a.common thing for the Public to require it. A man very often indeed makes his appeal to the Public on go ing out of Office, and that sometimes, as much with a wish to be re-instated, as any thing ; but I never heard of a man being called on. to exculpate himself from the charge of resigning. But Gentlemen say; that by one being silent on the subjed'of the Catho lic Question, we have brought ,the name , of our Sovereign into dispute ; and the Hon. Gentleman ,chuses to put a construEtion on our remaining silent, and then to ask if:question; whether the Catholics had or had not been deceived ? And upon the ob, stacles' to the measure,,as.they are stated in a Paper, of which I shall take.notice shortly, the I-lon. Gen tleman says, that innumerable obstacles are in the way of the measure; I do not know what Paper he took up ; I cannot die responsible 'for it, nor, indeed, for the verbal accuracy of any Paper whatever. I believe the word which the Hon. Gen.: tleman has mistaken was inseperable; and not in numerable. Upon that subjed, .all I will say is this :—That although I wished to submit the Ques tion of the Catholics to Parliament, there were such objeftions stated, as made me feel it impos. sible, with propriety, to bring the measure forward as a Minister. These are the general words I chuse to use upor; the subjet% : the Hon. Gentleman shall draw from me no admissions, and no denials on this subject. He may argue as he pleases from the words use.—[" Hear ! Hear !" from the other Side]--Gentlemen may draw what inference they please ; but I shall say a few words more upon this subjeti :—Gentlemen say, that I left this case in a state in which the name of the Sovereign-is brought into question; and they ppear to be angry because I will not tell them, whether they ought to be angry or not, They - wonder why I do not make it a matter of Question, and they put,' distantly, some points in the way - of question, 'but I will not an swer interrogatories - -I will tell those Gentlemen, however; that-upon this Subjea they deeeivP'them selves,grossly. Should they .be able to establish, that the. ,opinion of the Sovereign made it impossi .ble to' bring the subjea forward, they would gain nothing: ,by it ; for should the opinion of the Sovereign, be what it 'might; or' the opinion .of his Servants, ,What it might, °ldle Sovereign to dis pense with the services, of of the Servant to tender his resignation, would still remain the same—let these - Gentlemen but once be able to shake this principle, and they. will have done more than they will .be willing to avow, towards the destruttion -I of the Monarchy, for they will ,have established the most extravagant part of an oligarchy, that ever was eretted in any State e .foir tbur. 14%. St ••• • ; 6 ‘. could dismiss, nor the Subjett• 'resign, without an - explanation being made to the Public.—So that the Sovereign, 'the Father of his People, could never past. from his Servants, -unless he condescended to .shew that they gave him bad advice, nor.his Ser vants render their resignation, .unlei's they could prove that something was attempted to be imposed on -them, :which they could not, in their con-' sciences, approve :—Now, I would ask, is . that the state, .or. is it desirable it should be the state of the Monarchy of this Country.? Certainly it is The use of the .name of the Sovereign for the purpose of influencing opinions in this .Hbuse,.' or in any deliberative Assembly, is justly deemed 'un constitutional. The Sovereign exercises his opi nion ,on' the sentiments, as well as capacity of his Ministers, and' it upon - either, ,he judges theM to be incompetent, or in, any degree .unlit, it ,is the prerogative, and, with puled loyalty, let me.add, aye, the dury . of 'tile Crown, to distn6s such Mini sters. . Allow me also to say, that if'a Minister feels that, 'from 'a sense, he entertains of his duty, he ought to propose a measure; but ..is convinced that his endeavours must be ineffedual, so that his ser. vices must be limited to a narrower . ' compass than he_could desire, :and that success, in some 'material point, is irnpo4sible,- he - of ghr to be permitted to but, in proportion to the difficulty 'which the Sovereign may have in accepting. the resigna-. tion: of such a Minister, ought to be his love for such a Sovereign. hope 1 am - not deficient in my dtity to the best of Sovereigns, and I hope the whole ground and motive of my adions will coil. tinue to be justified during the whole of his reign. .This is all I shall say . upon this subjea, which may-, perhaps, be saying more than Fought.; But with respe4 to the assurances said, 'or supposed to have been held out to the Catholics' of Ireland, twould add a few . words.—The Pon. Gentleman has al, luded to a*Paper circulated- in that partOf His - Ma. jesty's Dominions.—it was a Memorindurn sent in the name of a NobleLordi at the head :of the Exe cutive Government of 'lreland, a CharaCter revered by all who know him, and whose name I am per suaded will not be profaned, nor mentioned in this Country with any disrespect. 7 feel, and I km:4 it to be 'true; that the Noble Lord did feel it right, as a matter of Public Duty,' to make a Cornmunica don to Persons most immediately among the Catho lics, to state the motives which led to rim late change which took place in His Majesty's Councils, to prevent any misrepresentation of that subject, then adding to the danger of the public tranquillity. I beg to-state that matter clearlyanddistindly ; was my express desire, . not conveyed by myself, but through' a Noble-Friend of mine, sitting near int (Lord CASTLEREAGH) that[ the Noble Lord should take the oppcktnnity of . dOing this. I do not arrogate any merit for it ; .but I think it, is an answer to any charge against us upon this sUbjea,. for, remissness, that we lost no time in making that . representation_ and explanation of our motives; and the principle 'of it ,was this, that the attempt to realize our wishes at this • time, woujd 'only be productive of Public embarrassrrierit. The. sentation was therefore made . ; 'but with reqe4 to the particular Paper delivered,• it was-not pre, . viously consulted wit,,h, me how it should- be perused, and, therefore for the pargculak phrases of it Ido not hold myself iesponsible. All the know.. ledge I derived or corkyeyed, was founded on verbal interpretation..—As to the tenor (Title paper - I hairt alluded to, the sentiments in it are conformable to thoie which I have already expressed in this House, and - Shall again express whenever I havt-occasion to express my sentiments on that subjea ; and it is fit not only, that this House should know them, but fit also that the .Community at large should know them. —lmean this, that a measure of that sort appeared to me to be of so much importance under all the circumstances, and that being unable to bring it forward as a measure of Government, I thought I could not therefore in honour remairoin -the situa tion in which I then stood, and that I was desirous of letting it also be understood, that whenever the objection I alluded to did not exist,—the same ob stacle did not interpose, thatevery thing depending on me, as well as those -who thought with me, I. should do, for that I was, desirous of carrying that measure, thinking_it of great importance to the Empire at large ; but that in the mean time, if any attempt to press it, s 6 as to endanger the public tranquillity, should be made; or to pervert the affeelion of any part of His Majesty's SubjeCts, we should take our full share in resisting such attempts ; and that ,we should do so with' firmness and resolu tion. These are the sentiments which I expressed, and I did hope that the day would come, when on the part of the Catholics, should such a measure be revived, it -would be carried in the only way in which I wished' to see it carried, WhiCh was certainly conformable to the general, 'tranquillity of the Empire.- 7 -As to any other pledge, I beg leave to give none—l have engaged myself to give none-=-I will give none— either now or at any time. 7-4 have contributed, as far as peaceable endeayours cotrid go, according to my judgment, in the best manner I could at the moment, for the general interests of the Country. This is all I shall say on this part of, the, subjett, and I am ashaMed to have been.. obliged to trouble the House so much as I have done, especially as another branch of it remains, and on which I must still say a few words—it relates to ,a question, whether any of those who have retired from office, had' so pledged themselves to the Catholics as to be under the necessity of resigning their offices because they could not perform their pledge..l beg leave . to deny that ; and what is mote satisfy Cory, I be lieve I am authorised in . denying, that the Catho lics,conceived themselves to have received any such pledge.—l know the Noble Lord to whom I have alluded, and my Noble Friend near me, who must have been a party to such transaCticiti, if any such had past, did not so convey 'to me.. I do not now, nor ever did so conceive it.—That the Catholics might have conceived such an expeetation is most natural— : Why ? Because the more attentively, I have ,refiectied , on ! it, ' the moreafter'• the Union, but not before, the . measure has appeared to me' to be salutary and expedient, and I can have no reason to think, that they were less sanguine in their expe&ations on . that subjed than I was-That they thought there Was a : very probable chance for the measure, is most cer. ::tain ; for I believe there was no one in this House, MIT Denny. ; It. I of p a rli Amen r, Tt.01 , 1, in argument, has attempted to deny, ,that the diffi culties would be considerably diminished on this subjea afte'r the measure of the Litton was accom- . pliihcd : I was of that opinion when thi's subjea . was debated—l.avn of that opinion' still,and the reasons: in favour .of it do very much preponderate ; this, however, was afterwards ; given up, on MO fives' of expediency. An expeaatiOn in favour of this. measure there was ;'but. a pledge, I do distinelly state-there was none." Mr: PITT then proceeded to - observe on the other parts of the : s'ubjett, as they had been opened by Mr. dREY, and di.sposed Of each in its turn, bat of which a 'detail would go beyond our limits,; we shall, therefore, only 'slightly touch the diffeient heads of his :arguments . . On the subjeft of - the change of His Majesty's Ministers, he observed, that it would not be right for - him to. presume to . trouble the ,House, because that. subjeft was most.: ably discussed by his' Right Hon. Friend ; and he confessed he was -at a loss' to know what could . be said in answer to it. With respea to, the details . of the War, they had been the subject, not only of dis. cession, but.also of the votes Of the House; and it would be sufficient for him merely to remind the House, that if they thought the opinions they had formerly given were wrong; it was right to say so; but it was hardly fait' to say that the same argu ments which had been-over and over again offered, and not only answered, but .exploded, would not, be.' cause they were repeated to-night, raise much doubt in the mind of the HOuse. He should, therefore, say nothing on them. With regard-to the objet of the War, it had been stated over and over again as matter of accusation against the .Executive Go. vernment of this Country, that this War was car ried on fOr the EstablishMent of Royalty in France. —That Royalty was made the sine qua itoit.—Up on that, he would only say; that there was amode of repeating a thing, which was i n it s elf unfounded, so frequently, that a man might 'at last *make himself believeit,, while nobody believed it but himself, and so a man might become the dupc of his own obstinacy. He had however always distinaly avowed, that the , re,establishmeot of Royalty in France was desirable in itself; for every mate who rooked ar things impartially, would see, 'that, the tranquillity- and safetrof &trope depended much on that event, and was one way Of restoring Peace to Europe ; but he had never said—God . , forbid he ever,should—that the whole safety of this'Country depended on. it ; or that it •shOuld be made by us a sine Ina ?ion of Peace—he had never held any such doarine the rule he hpd always Considered to•be this, not to pursue, any 'point ..to an extreme, for that bordered - on madness'; 'but to carry on the eon . - test to its conclusion; with as little effusion of hu man blood as possible; but to lead it to a termina tion as favourable as possible for this Country, • fOr he did not possess that species of Philosophy which had -no more regard for the Country which gave him birth than that of any foreign land —,as a Politician he was bound to prefer his - own Country .to .any Other. In that light. also, he c9nsideted that the establish men t of 'Monarchy in France was the readiest way to heal up the bleeding wounds of Europe, and which MEM might have been accomplished, .if other Countries. had taken properly an example from thii Country, whose struggles in the preservation of .it 4 Liberty and Jnaependence was the. admir a tion of surround- • ing Nations ; and indced,the tate of other . Powers had Tong been thought. robe connefted with the prosperity Of this Country, and_ to preserve Which • we had kept constant and steady, and amidst the shock -of surrounding -,Einpires, _the • Constitution,,,,,, the Resources, the Charaaer, and the :Greatness. of Britain had remained tinshakeh ; 'to these obiefts had the War been 'directed, and -these - objects had.. the 'Wit preserved, for not tine 'of which was* lost, nor iris•either atqhis hotir in danger. _ The 'dis pensations of Providence in the fite of Empires 'had been propitious 'tO Great Britain, - and had it not been far the perverseness - of some, of its Allies,. the weakness-and timidity of otheis, and the mis taken'polity'of-all, they would each of them, at this hour, be in a much better' .conditiOn thin th6-' are ; they wanted the spirit, the vigour, and riiinlhieSS of this Cohirtly - To7ple§e'rtre them: - pf that spirit, that vigour; and that rnanlineSS Gieat Britailf had at 'chid' hdur every foot of . Territory' which ' she rossessett- : at the commencement of the , War, to which:- she: added very large posspssionsfrOm the Enemy,' and, - this after a contest of row. nine years, the 'intl.; culars of which he should by over; - • because they • had been , so ably , detailed b.y lend .;.` But on the subjet of Finance s it w a s ness to dWell a it w4s a dry subjett; 'and hq should be 'as concise aeon it as , tiie - nature of .Would admit.----Here, he wenf7tliFd'ujh a 'su\iirtt...ac- 4 - count of the Finance of . the .Country Fat'. the nines years of this 'War; and sheaved the particulars in which the Resources. ill the ;Country had, ill that period of unexampled difficulty, ,increased , even tb the . present hour, and then he past to the QUertiron of Contest - between this Coutury and , theNorthe.rts Powers now - in,confedcrley against use --What svotk td be the termination.of this Queirion no • man ' cOti,Ari undertake to say, no man was entitled to. say, that , all hopes of a successful • termination of the Vuestit might not be the result of it, and that, he wished to see accomplished, but only in a smannWlhat Iv as consistent • wittOhe Rights and . Interests of t:his Country.. He knew. it was . the •siish: of His jesty's Councils when he had the honour to make a part of such.Couneils, and he had no doiili#c tho s e who succeeded him concurred in the Satrit'icki,sl i ; b ut on'the other hand, there must. be no Conces s i on on our part, of the principle on which ste:iiiSisted, for on it depended the greatness of thif Cmintrv, and therefore "this Cotiiirr - Tintikr re suffer i iself to be duped by. . the artifi c e, than it was to be terrified by the threats of any Power. ; • for it would be more shameful of thetwo to.be duped than heat Out of out Rights; He hOPedi hOWever, loSee a happy tenni nationtO the Whole dispute. Here he entered it ito a short energetic description of the poiniS • in contest between us and the Northern': Confederacy, mind classed it under five heads.. First, •wbethcr .klYree Bottoms make Free Goods.—Secondly, Contral,and Blockade,—Forthly.i the Rights of Neutrals.to. carry on Trade.-1 , tidily, • the Right. of Search ; each -of which he argued to be rightly contended fur on our part, and unjustly contested on the part of the Confederacy, making alitible remark s on caci4eati, and Llaer. the authority of the Law of tibff§; 4 l"hd. re. Lying on the Faith of existing 'rreltties, as a series of Judicial Decisi o ns' of'zhe Highest Au.. tho - rity to be found in our Law ..Books, T :.ris HAXti - wic.xE,7 MANsFIELO,` eee.. chalrenged G - entleMen on' the- other side to ,argUe tlttlse points at length whenever they were posed. He . took a view,- as he passed, of. 'the last League between the Northern Powers, by which they. had stipulated to do.for themselves- not only that Which was very- difficult, which was,, that of guaranteeing 'to-any Power -that their Merokaut Ships, under their COnyoy, should not have 'any • contraband gaids on board,' but also.that which was impossible, namely, to guarantee this very thin g for each' other... Having 'expatiated e 4 these topics %yids -great force, he concluded' by observing, that unlesiive resisted these attempts to encroach'on our IV4ritime Righti now, we should' lose the he a t op , portunity that ever did, or perhaps ever will otter for their vindication ; &tit as the Confederates peo. posed it, we were not only to allow ourselves to be scodrged, but we 'were to - kiss the ;rod.--=This' was neither more - "nor leis than ajacobinical Principle, adopted by - four Confederated Powers, which the Law of Nationi, and of-theCi:vilied.'World were to.be Overturned,._arid was the spirit al, the French Revolution, ,which - had done such ilavock in so many parts of•Eutopet, and whichAvas now about to be levelled against the Rights- and 'Prtsperty of Eng. 'lishmen, who would do every thing, that was con sistent with true - hOtiout'to preSeive Peace, but if necessary, would sacrifice. the 44 shilling of their property, and the lasi drop - 'ofll3eii blood, rather than give -up, or butte their rritleotntience, or sell their Honotir, Whith dearer to them than existence.' s th ri t t . "Hr.. FOX said, that the De'pate- had run into Y po o i f n tls°Ptoi6C•htichhatlic4SlK;(di difficul t advert; 6dc teurcmhian :a but he should begirt with • ike ,Northern Cdnfede. racy, He had said that die - Question branched' into live points T. ; That - Free Bottoms did no; make Free Goods ; 2. What s.vaS eraband 'of War ; tn _ t 3. The Blockade of Ports 4. That Neutrals Were not to carry in War the colonial or Coasting Trilde of a Belligerent POwer ; and S. The Right oftsearcb. These might:perhaps be all resolved into three great principles. The Neutral Confederacy had been called that day a Jacobin principle—the. Neutral Confederacy was first broached by FR EDER,' ct the GREAT. It was quite in the fashion of the, present day to brand every thing with - the name of Jacobin; but this term had been used too iong - --i t had lost its effipcy. :Btit 'to return. That Free Bottoms did not make Free Goods, Was . a (latrine recognized by the Law of Nations. He had. no difficulty in saying So. ; 'Friend (Mr. Grtzy) had said that it was a doctrine which it was- riot 'necessary at ihis time to 'consider ; and in this he perfectly agreedwith him'. We Were not called upon, at this most critieajeonjunCture of affairs, to bring it into discussion. The Right Hon. Genileman says, that in 17 ao, when the Neutral Confederacy' was formed, it was not --ailiniered, and that 'Lord: Sfoamoxr afterwards protested against it. The Ministers of