The Sun. — London, England, 1822-03-16 00:00:00

, 110USE,,OF, .COMMONS, MARCH 15. ROYAL ASSENT. The SprAxErt - took the Chair at half-past three, and the liaise *as immediately summoned to attend at the Bar of the 1-lonse of Lords. On the SPEAKER'S return, he inform 4d-the House that he had been to the Bar of the House of Lords, and - had heard the Royal Assent given by Commission to several Bills; among them was the Navy Five per Cents. - BLit': • • MISCELLANEOUS. Mr. Joxxs.rox - presented an Account of the Receipts and diSbursements of the London Dock Company, from the 30th 1820, to the 50th of Nov. 1821. Also a Report of the completion of the Works. Mr. WALLACE moved that the Navigation Acts be en tera as read.; and that the House should, on Monday next, resolve itself into a Committee on the said Acts. • Mr. S. WORTLE Y, alluding to a report of a proposed al teration of the law respecting wool, requested his Right Hon. Friend would contradict the report. - Mr. WALL-ACE said, it was intended merely to permit the importation of wool, duty free, in order that the same might be afterwards exported. The motion was then agreed to. AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. Mr. LEIGH KE'CK presented a Petition from an individual - .Farmer of Leicestershire, complaining of Agricultural Distress. —Ordered td . lie on the table. • [We Omitted to• state in our Report of the Proceedings of the• House of Commons on Wednesday, that Lord CLIVE pre sented a petition from a numerous and respectable Meeting of the Inhabitants of Ludlow, complaining of Agricultural Dis tress, and praying for relief.] • WARRE presented a Petition from certain Inhabitants of Somersetshire, praying for some legislative measure for fa cilitating, the recovery of Small Debts.—Ordered, to lie on the table. Sir WM. CURTIS moved, that the second reading of the London Bridge Water-Works Bill be fixed for Monday next.— Ozdered. STATE OF IRELAND. Sir JOHN NEWPORT postponed the notice of his Hon. Friend (Mr. D. •Browne), respecting the State of Ireland, until the 24th April. LIGHT-HOUSE DUES. Mr. HUME moved fora Return of the Sums annually re ceived for all Light-House Dues and the authority upon which the same were demanded. It was desirable, he said, to re lieve shipping as much as possible from these dues. He had applied to the Trinity House on the subject, , and he believed there would be no objection to the motion. Sir ISAAC COFFIN said, the House would scarcely be lieve that many hundreds of thousands of foreigners had been drowned upon our coasts in consequence of the amount of melt dues, which prevented them from coming into our har bours. Foreigners were compelled to pay double ; this he knew. to , be a fact. Mr. WALLACE said, there would be no objection to the Motion. The Foreign Trade Committee had the subject under their consideration. Mr. MONEY complained that the most unjust reflections had been cast upon the Trinity House on this subject. All extottions committed in respect of these dues were imputed to that Corporation, although many of the Light-Horses were the property of private individuals. • The Foreign Trade Com mittee, who were considering the subject, bad, he thought, exceeded the powers entrusted to them by the House, in call arig for papers not connected with the object of their inquiry. Toe Trinity House were, however, anxious for a - full_ investi gation of all - the facts. Mr. WALLACE and Mr. MONEY mutually explained. Si: JOSEPH YORKE said, he could not agree with the gallant Admiral in his statement of the number of foreigners crowned on our coasts in consequence of these dues. The safety of all the shipping was often ensured by these lights. Sir I. COFFIN admitted that he had somewhat increased the number.—(A laugh.) Mr. ELLIS complained that Irish shipping was considered as "(reign ,with respect to these dues. This he thought was a hardship loudly calling for redress. Sir N. W'. RIDLEY, referring to the observation of the Hgn. Member for Wotton Bassett (Mr. Money), said that the Foreign Trade Committee had enough to do without calling for any papers unnecessarily. It was their duty to inquire into all the circumstances having any reference to the objects en trusted to tlieir consideration. The motion was then agreed to. Mr. BUTTERWORTH presented a Petition from the Managers of the London Bridge Water SVorhs, against the Bain progress respecting these Works.-- - -Ordered to lie on the 'ie.Lie. TAX UPON TALLOW. Mr. CURWEN presented a Petition from certain Chandlers and Manufacturers of Tallow, praying for the repeal of the tax upon enmdles.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. CURWEN presented another Petition from several Owners of Vessels, and other persons interested in the South Sea Whale Fishery, complaining that the trade was declining in efnsequence of the importation of foreign tallow, and pray- int 4 for 11r. CURIVgN then said that it was probable his motion kr that evening respecting the Tax upon Tallow would come an very late if at all ;' and lie therefore took that opportunity of.stating, that if he found it impossible to brin g it on; he would call the attention of the House to the subject on Wed nesday next. He bep ? -ged to state that he should leave, out of his view of the question every. thing connected with the but ter and cheese trade, though that had very material reference to the agricultural distress. His object in not touching upon it was, that some Hon. Member connected with Ireland would take up the subjlct. MALT DUTY. The Order of the Day was moved and read for the House resolving itself into a Committee on the Malt Duty Bill. On diequestion being put that the Speaker should leave the Chair, • Mr. GIPPS said he regretted that Ministers had not, in their desire to relieve the distress of the agriculturists, consulted those who were competent to inform them of the best mode of carrying their good wishes into effect. The repeal of the tax upon salt wonid, he thought, afford real relief. - Mr. CALVERT, adverting to the discussion for the allow ance in respect of malt on hand, said he had had an interview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who had promised that all malt in transitu should be ascertained and allowed for ; but it was thought an express clause in the Bill for that purpose would open a door for fraud, and therefore it was left out. Sir J. YORKE said he feared it was only the Calverts and the Whitbreads who would gain by the reduction. Ile should be glad to know when the price of beer would fall, and he trusted his Hon. Friend, who was so good a representative of the barley-corn, would answer the question. Mr. CALVERT said, that all who brewed their own beer would gain by the reduction ; but he begged to inform the House, that a halfpenny difference on a pot of porter was equal to a difference of '2ls. on a quarter of malt. Now' when he stated that the present reduction would make a difference of only 6s. 6d. in the quarter of malt, and that Government had three halfpence duty on every pot of porter, he trusted the House as well as his Right Ilon. Friend would see that it was not rea sonable to expect a reduction in the price of porter. General GASCOYNE said, he protested against this reduc • tion, since it appeared that the Public would be no gainers by it ; or at least only those of the Public who brewed their own beer. He protested against the measure as uncalled for and impolitic; and thought it an unwise sacrifice of the public ex penditure. Colonel WOOD trusted that the present measure would re vive the old custom of parsons brewing their own beer, and for that reason he approved of it. If it led to such a result, it would keep the poorer classes from their pernicious habits of spending their time in victualling houses. 'Mr. Gator:AFT and Colonel WOOD mutually explained. Mr. Sergeant ONSLOW could not agree with the gallant General that the present measure was uncalled for ; and espe cially after the proceedings of last year, when a Bill was brought in for repelling the Malt Tax, and read a first time. After a few words from Mr. Alderman C. Ssii Tin the House went into a Committee, in which Mr. LUSHINGTON expressed his regret that it was to be feared, from the statement of the Hon. Member for Southwark (Mr. Calvert) that the people were not to be benefited by the re duction. He (Mr. L.) did not mean to say that the Hon. Mem ber' could divide the farthing; but surely he could make the beer stronger.—(A laugh.) Mr. C. CALVERT assured the Hon. Secretary his sugges tion should not be forgotten ; and that, if he would condescend to taste the beer, he should find it very good.—(A laugh.) A desultory conversation followed, and the House having re sumed, the Report was ordered to be received on Monday. MR. HUNT. Mr. HOBE-MUSE, in behalf of his Honourable Colleague (Sir F. Burdett) postponed tlo notice of motion he had given relative to Mr. Hunt, to Wednesday the 27th instant. At the same tirne . he begged leave to express a hope that the motion would ttirn out to be unnecessary, from the previous interfer ence of his Majesty's Government. FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. Lord 3. RUSSELL rose for the purpose of putting a ques tion to a Right Honourable Secretary to the Treasury opposite, on a• subject which nearly concerned the privileges of that House. H 2 alluded to a letter which had found its way into publicity; vhich,- in open allusion to three Members of that House, as stated in the letter, " Lord Normanby, Lord Al thorpe, and Mr. Creevey," contained the following expressions : " The Opposition despairing of eve: being able to get into of fl e, have resolved upon, pursuing a system tending to under mine and destroy the best institutions of the country, so as to make it impossible for any Goveinment to go on." This let ter was signed " AtbUthnot." But as he never could believe that Right Hon: Gentleman capable of putting on paper such expressions, openly charging Members of that House with se ditious intentans, he must conclude it to be a forgery, and was therefore anxious to give the Right Hon. Gentleman an oppor tunity of contradicting it. Mr. ARBUTHNOT—In consequence of what bed fallen from the Noble Lord, it became necessary for him to inform the [louse, that the expressions just quoted to them had been written by him, They were contained in a letter which was entirely of a private nature, and although he had no hesitation in avowing himself to be the author of it s he could not admit that the expressions in questions would bear the construction the Noble Lord had placed upon them. The expressions he (Mr. Arbuthnot) contended, alluded to the motions of the Honourable Members, and not to their motives; and he beg ged to state, that however he might regard the latter, he would not be guilty of violating the rules of that House. Concerning the motions he had adverted to as having the tendency he had stated, he had called upon the individual to whom he wrote to watch the course of them for the best interests of the country.— (Ilear !) Lord NORMANBY said, that actuated, as he felt he had been throughout, by a conscientious anxiety to discharge his public duty, he should not haie thought that any one would have dared to impute dangerous intentions to him, for mergly bringing forward a motion of a nature that had twice lately re ceived the sanction of the Legislature.—(Hear.) Mr. ARBUTHNOT repeated that there was nothing in his letter that could fairly be construed into an imputation upon the Noble Lord's intentions. _ _ _ ... The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he hoped that the freedom of discussion had not so far degenerated in this country, that either in or out of that House they were not to be permit ted to express an opinion on the tendency of measures pursued by any Hon. Members whatever.—(Hear, hear!)—lt was really too much for the Hon. Gentlemen opposite to suppose that they were to exercise a controul over the opinions of [lon. Mem bers on his side of the House. He really hoped that they had not a serious design of gagging them.—( Hear.) Lord NORMAN BY said, he had not seen the letter in ques tion ; but as it was admitted that it imputed to him the acting on a system to undermine the best institutions of the country, he could not understand how that could be talent otherwise than as reflecting personally , on his motives. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that it might be perfectly true that the Noble Lord and his friends acted on a system which he (the Marquis of Londonderry) might think dangerous; and he might say so withodt imputing that know ledge to the Noble Lord. Col. DAVIES asked, if the expression " despairing of ever getting into office" did not imply a knowledge of the tendency of the course pursued in consequence? The Marquis of LONDONDERRY did not see any thing incompatible in the Hon. Gentlemen opposite despairing of getting into power, with their ignorance of the tendency of any measures they might propose.—(Hear, hear ) Mr. ARBUTHNOT remarked, that there was nothing ex traordinarY in his supposing, from a view of the measures, that the originators Of them should despair of getting into office. Lord J. RUSSELL appealed to the Chair, whether such lan . guage, if used in that House, as applied to HOn. Members on his side, would not be highly disorderly. The SPEAKER said, the question of the Noble Lord had anticipated the situation in which he had intended to represent that the House was placed in engaging in a discussion relative to the privileges of that House, upon the construction to be placed on , a letter which was not before the House. Thev might see one of the inconveniencies of such a course from tife situa• tion in which a Noble Lord (Lord Noernanby) was placed, who had not seen the letter. With regard to the Noble Lord's ques tion, however, it' he asked him whether a Member of that House, speaking of another, should say, that " dospairing.of get ting into office, he pursued a system of measures tending to undermine the best interests of the' country," was, or was not, disorderly ; he must say that the imputation of despairing to get into office had. nothing to do with the subsequent part of the charge. It was disorderly, no doubt, to impute un worthy and - dangerous motives.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—But whether the imputation was directed against the measures, Or the motives; t became necessary to examine the precise terms in which the expression was delivered.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—lf it should appear that the iiiiputation was upon the systeui, however erroneous it might be, it would not be against the orders of the House. But if directed against the persons pursuing that system, it was distinctly and most outrageously disorderly.—(Hear, hear !)—The House, however, would not faitto observe how utterly incapable he must of necessity be, to give an opinion on the subject submitted to him by the Noble Lord, when the contents df the letter were not before the House.—( Hear !) Mr AftBUTIINOT assured the Honourable Gentlemen opposite, that he wrote the letter in question as a private letter, without ever considering whether it was or was not against the orders of :he House. So much did he regard it as a private letter, that lie declared, upon his word of honour, he had not even kept a copy of it. He had no premediated design of vio lating the orders of the House, nor to offend any Honourable Members.—(hear, hear!)—lle did not know who had shewn his letter; but he did not hesitate to say, that if there was any thing improper in it, he was the last man to flinch from the consequences. —(Bear !) Mr. WYNN said, that he had heard with great surprize the appeal made to the Chair by the Noble Lord opposite. He be lieved it was the first time that a question had been put to the Speaker of that House upon a hypothetical case. He really thought that it would - be quite soon enough to trouble the Speaker and take up the time of the House when the case arose. --(Hear.)—But he must protest against an attempt like the pre sent to extend the privileges of that House to the details of pri vate communication:—(Hear !)—Was an individual not to be permitted to- express a private opinion, to winch no publicity or attempt at it was made ? Such an attempt to shackle the free dom of private intercourse had not been made for a century past.- (Hear !)—lt was true, if they looked a little further back than a century ago, they would find that the House had dis -graced itself by exercising some such power as that now pro posed in the instance of the Popish Plot, on which occasion those who were guilty of expressing a doubt of the existence of it were sent to prison.—(Hear !) Sir R. FERGUSSON observed that the Right Honourable, Gentleman (Mr. Wynn) had narrowed the question, as though this were only a solitary case ; but he apprehended it would be found that the language complained of was that of a Treasury Circular. - 111;:WYNN said, he had argued upon what the Right Ho nourable Gentleman (Mr. Arbuthnot) himself stated—that the letter was strictly private.—(Cheers.) Mr. BANKES said a few words which were inaudible in the gallery. The Honourable. GEORGE LAMB thought it was much to be regretted that after the handsome explanation of the Right Horourable Secretary (Mr. Arbuthnot) and the opinion delivered from the Chair, the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Wynn) merely for the sake of defending the privileges of the house, should have run the risk of raising the whole ques. tion again. That Right Honourable Gentleman in his tirade against interference with private correspondence, had begged the whole of the question; for the vary question before the House was, whether the letter in question was private or not ? —(Hear !) Lord J. RUSSELL observed, that the Right Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Wynn) seemed to have proceeded on the assumption that there was a motion before the House relative to a breach of privilege. In this, however, he was quite mistaken, since the origin of the whole was, a question which he (Lord J. Rus sell) had put, which " nearly concerned the privilege of the House ;" because in his view of the case, the Right Hon. Se cretary of the Treasury had imputed motives of a dishonourable nature to Hon. Members on his side of the House. The Right Hon. Secretary, however, had disavowed any such intention, and he had therefore nothing further to say. Lord NORMAN BY explained, that as he had not seen the letter, he received his impressions of its contents from what his Noble Friend stated with respect to it. He however, begged to assure the Right Honourable Gentleman that lie was the last man to retain any sense of intended insult, and he hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would not attach any weight to the ob servations he had made use of. —(Wear !) POST 1t ASTE R-GE NE RAM Lord NORMANBY gave notice, that in consequence of the manner in which the question which he had the honour of sub mitting to the House on Thursday was disposed of, he should bring it forward again on the 2d of Mai. MARRIAGE ACT. Dr. Primmai ORE gave notice, that he should, in the course of the Session, move the repeal of the arriage Act. ARMY ESTIMATES, The House having resDlved itself into a Committee of Supply, the Votes in Supply on the Army Estimates were renewed. The first vote moved by Lord PALMERSTON' was : For the Miscellaneous Services of the Land Forces of Great Britain - £236,339 0 1 Mr. HUME declared his intention of proposing an Amend ment; to lessen this vote. The first itnn composing the gross sum to which he took exception was, to 6,0001. for the table kept for the Officers of the Guards at St. James's. He proposed to reduce this allowance to 3,0001. ; which, admitting that the nature,of their duty might require a table to be kept up, was quite sufficient for all proper purposes. It was quite enough for a plain table, and he was sure the House would never sanction,in these distressed times, the maintenance of a table with such viands and such wines as were calculated to be detrimental not only to the corps itself by engendering expensive habits, but to the service in general by example. The next item was charge for allowances to the officers of' the Guards, 35,0001. which•he should move for being reduced. The riding esta blishment would also form part of the amount of his reduction. There was already an expense of 4,0001. for teaching the differ ent regiments to ride, independent of tbis, and that was quite enough without any other. He should also propose to remit the charge of 501. for inspecting the colours of the army. He did not see how it was to be supposed that Sir G. Nayler could spell better than the Colonels of regiments, whom the colours particularly concerned. Again, out of the 6,0001. for barracks, he should suggest that 4,0001. be reduced. And of the Staff charges he proposed to reduce 8,5001.—a very moderate amount, which he knew could easily be saved. The Hon. Member concluded by moving, " That in place of the sum proposed, the vote be for 211,4001. Os. Id." Sir C. BURRELL shewed that the Officers of the Guards were not paid so well as any other officers in the British army, and contended that they were therefore entitled to the small consideration of the table at St. James's Palace spoken of by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen. If an Ensign in the Guards were to sink the purchase money of his commission in an an nuity, he would get a much higher rate of pay than he received in virtue of his commission. With regard to the table which was kept for thirteen Officers of the Guards, when the Hon. Member talked of the luxuries with which it was supplied, and the quantity of wines wasted, he was quite in error; for he believed the officers were rather kept on short commons that otherwise. There were subalterns in the Guards of sixteen and seventeen years standing, whose pay would do more than cover the expense of their regimentals.—(Hear !)—Besides this, if in were calculated, he was convinced that the difference betwixt the allowances of the Officers of the Lineand the Guards, would make it apparent that the keeping of this table in lieu of those allowances, was in fact a saving of 30001.--(Hear !) Sir H. HARDINGE bore testimony to the frugal manner in which the table of the Guards was kept. It was always shut at 11 o'clock, and no wine given after, 10. It had been attached to the Guards since the formation of the corps, and was established by agreement, instead of certain allowances which all the rest of the army had. It was, therefore, not very fair to propose. at this period, to break through that compact. If the Subalterns of the Guards received the same allowances as the Subalterns of the other part of the army, they would receive 30,0001. But they received only 13,0001., being a difference of 12,000 L, by de ducting from which the cost of the table there remained a clear saving of 6,0001., resulting from the very arrangement that was so cried down. He protested against the Hon. Member im puting mal-administration on any part of "the army. It was as impartially and as purely administered in time of peace as ever it was in war.—(Hear, hear !) Mr. BERNAL begged to remind the Hon. Member who had spoken last, that his Hon. Friend could not be expected to know every thing, and he might therefore be wrong as to the table of the Guards. He (Mr. Bernal) believed he was; for he believed that the seven battalions of that corps were kept at less expense than any other such number of battalions. Other battalions were provided with barracks; and if the fair-rate of lodging money for the officers were calculated, it would be found that the keeping the table instead of it was a saving at least of 60001.—(Hear.) Col. TRENCI-1 said that the maintenance of five Officers of the Guards, in 1792, cost 3,5001. whilst thirteen, in 1322, cost only He thought it had been made clear to the House by this time, that the arrangement in question, in fact, created a saving. Mr. BENNET said that he was sure it was not the inten tion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. H mile) to breathe an aspersion against any part of the army. He (Mr. Bennet) agreed with his Hon Friend in thinking that 60001. a year was too much for the support of a table for thirteen officers, and should there -1 fore support the amendment. Colonel DAVIES could not agree in the motion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Flume), but he should propose an amendment to retluce the amount of the vote 17,0001. upon the charge for the Recruiting of the Army: To this he should add the Riding Department, and then moved to substitute 217,0001. for the original sum. Lord PALMERSTON shewed that a saving of 3,0001. was effected by the system adopted with respect to the recruits, and the total expense in the last year, including all charges, did not exceed 91. per man. After sonic further conversation, in which Col. Dalrymple, Gen. Gascoyne, Col. Davies, Sir H. Hardinge, Sir H. Vivian, Mr. Hutchinson, Mr. T. Wilson, and Mr. Hume participated, the two Amendments were severally negatived, and the original Resolution carried without a division. The Mowing granti were then moved : For the Military Establishments of Ireland £684,449 For defraying the charge of the Staff for Great Bri tain and Foreign stations - - 96,848 Mr. HUME thought the public had a right to expect a much larger reduction than had been effected. Instead of the two permanent district Quarter-Masters, which we had in 1792, there were now eight; four he thought would be sufficient, and he would submit to the House a proposition for reducing them to that number. Then for the Inspectors of Clothing, he thought if we had four Adjutant-Generals, with a Deputy kept up at head-quarters, they might perform the duty . of in specting the clothing as formerly, and the Inspectors might be dispensed with. He could wish to know of what use six Aides-de-Camp could be to the King ? These, if kept up, ought to be transferred from these estimates to the Civil List, out of which they were formerly paid, and which was suffi ciently large to bear the charge. The Chaplain-General might be done without, as the Bishop ordained the Chaplains; he could speak to their fitness for the situations to which they were to be appointed. In the Colonial Staff he was sorry to remark, that his suggestions had not been attended to. In Canada there were four Quarter-Masters General, two Aides de-Camp, One Secretary, and one Assistant Secretary. In the Leeward. Islands he found five Deputy. Adjutants, and eight Quarter-Masters General. He would propose, that in time of peace their number should be reduced so as to leave but one of each. Similar redactions were called for at Jamaica, at Gib raltar, and the Cape of tilood Hope. Last year the charge for the Staff amounted to 132,0001. This 'ear it came to 118,0001. In 1792, the whole charge was but 24,0001. He was of opi nion that such reductions might be made as would save the country 12,0001. leaving an Aid-de-Camp and a Brigade Major to each Colony. He moved, as an amendment, " That the sum of 84,3481. should be substituted for 96,8431. in the reso lution." Lord PALMERSTON said, the Hon. Gentleman was en tinly mistaken in several particulars. The number of Aides de-Camp to the King was the same in 1792 as at present, but they were paid at a higher rate. Then they cost the country 1,1371.; now the charge they created was 1,0421. The Hon. Gent. was mistaken, when he stated the total of the Staff, in 1792, to have been no more than 23,0001. It was really 39,0001. In his statement he had omitted the extraordinaries and contin gencies, and had in fact taken only a part of the Staff. The Hon. Gentleman thought the Inspectors of Clothing might be done away. He (f,ord Palmerston) however, did not expect that the House would agree with the Hon. Gentleman in this, as they must feel how necessary it was that the clothing of the Army should be properly inspected. The Chaplain-General of the Forces the Hon. Gentleman considered to be useless.— He had remarked that the Bishop who ordained those who be came Chaplains could judge of their fitness. It was true that the Bishop could do so, but unless some one took upon him self to see that they• performed the duties attached to their situations, the service might be neglected, and the public in that case would pay their money for nothing. The Chaplain- General had to correspond with all the stations, yet he had no establishment of clerks whatever : his deputy was his only assistant. With respect to the Quarter-Master-General, these had active duties to perform : one was stationed at Liverpool, from which fresh troops were frequently embarked; one was stationed at Bristol, one at Portsmouth, one at Plymouth, and one who had been stationed in the interior was about to proceed to Edinburgh to take the duty of the-Quarter-Master there, who was likely to be reduced. The Hon. Gentleman had regretted that his observations with respect to the colonies had not been attended to. He (Lord Palmerston) meant not the slightest disrespect ; but when the Right Hon. Gentleman came forward with statements so vague ; when he told them I find four officers here, and think two would do—here is a charge of so many thousands ; I think half the sum would be sufficient ; when he thus came forward to express his opinion, which he certainly had a right to do, it was not to be expected thaton such grounds the House would feel itself warranted in casting off the votes proposed by Ministers. Col. TRENCH pointed out a reduction of expence in the pay of certain officers. Mr. HUNIE defended his former statements. Lord PALMERSTON offered further explanations respect ing the expences of the Staff. Mr. ELLICE called the attention of the House to the emo luments of the Governor of Canada. Besides what he received from the Colony, he had a regiment. Not giving any opinion on the subject, it was - but fair that the House should know exactly what it was, that they might determine whether or not 90001. per annum was more than sufficient, if they should be told that what he had was equal to that sum. He did not understand_ why a Governor of Canada should receive half as much again as one of the Principal Secretaries of State in Eng land. He then called the attention of the House to the situa tion of the Colonies. After this country had brought them to what they were, they could not be abandoned, as a GallantOflicer had suggested. The House ought now, in time of peace, to know exactly what they cost the country. The Colonies were taxed to a serious degree, and it was not fair to blame them, if that which was raised from them were not properly applied. The old Colonies had to pay the Four and a Half per Cent. Duties. These, however, were appropriated to the Pension List of England. At Demerara there were five or six sinecures, which caused a charge of 6 or 8,0001. per ann.; but it was due to the Noble Lord, at the head of the Colonial Department, to say, that none of these had been, given away since he had been in office. .It was supposed by many that the Colonies paid no taxes, when, in fact, they paid very largely. 3luch had been said of the distress of the agricultural interest in England. It was impossible for that distress to exceed what was known in every one of the West India Islands. With the exception of the ma nufacturing interest, he might say there was not one which was not depressed by the circumstances of the times. A revision of the system ought to take Pace. The old Colonies, which could formerly pay, could pay no longer. He hoped that the Esti mates would be simplified, so that the different heads of expen diture might be traced and understood. As they stood now, he felt at a loss how to vote, if the lion. Member -pressed his amendment to a division. Though he might wish to vote for the reductiOn of some branches, he did not know how a gross sum of 12,0001. could be taken off. Sir R. FERGUSSON said that he had been misrepresented, and was anxious to set himself right as to what he had said in respect to the Colonies. He was stated to have recommended the abandoning of the Colonies, if they could not be retained at less .expence. He had said no such thing, as he could not have an idea of giving up the old Colonies. Ile did say that many of the new ones, if they could not be kept at a less rate in the present distressed state of the country, ought to be abandoned. In the Cape of Good Hope Ministers had created places in order to create patronage. The salary of the Go vernor was much to high. It had been stated by Sir J. Grey, who was once Governor, that 3,0001. a year was a sufficient salary; whereas the present Governor received 10,0001. And this,, with ether privileges, and particularly owing to the ex changes, was equal to 25,0001. If the funds of the Cape of Good Hope were properly managed, they would support not only the Staff, but the whole army of the Colony. Mr, GOULBURN said, that this was not the first time of the Gallant General's bringing these circumstances before the House, and as often as they had been brought forward, he (Mr. G.) had refuted them. With regard to the effect of the depre ciation of the currency having any effect in increasing the value of the salary of the Governor from 10,0001. to 25,0001. nothing could be more erroneous. The merest dabbler in such matters would know that the value of money there could not be in creased relatively to this country. Virith regard to what had fallen from his Hon. Friend opposite (Mr. Ellice), he must re peat what he had always said, that the Colonies did, in point of fact, bear a considerable share of their own expenditure. He knew there were many ignorant and narrow-minded men, unlike his Hon. Friend, who estimated the expenditure of the Colonies by merely looking at the balance-sheet'without taking into consideration the incidental advantages which arose from them. These advantages were, amongst others, the extended navigation to which they gave rise, and the consequent bene ficial employment of the population of ,the country. He had repeatedly shewn to the House, and he was ready to fight the battles over again, that the Officers of the Colonies were not overpaid. Sir. ELLICE, Mr. GOULBURN, and Sir- R. FEROUSSON severally explained. Sir. G. BENNET thought the fair anal rational way of looking at the question was, to compare the Staff expenses at present with those of any other period. In 1792 they were 7,0091. and now 30,0001. The Staff expenses for Canada in 1802 were under 7,0001. and in the present Estimates he found them 16,0001. With regard to the West India Islands, in 1803 the expense for that portion of our Establishment was 18,0001. and now it was 26,0001. The reason was, that all the time Bngadier-Generals. were employed, but now the Government sent out 'Major-Generals. He did not ask them to go so ro mantically far backward as 1792, he only looked to 1812, and the question was, whether the House would grant the great in crease which had taken place ? He for one would not. Lord PALMERSTON said, the fact was, that, in 1792, the Foreign Staff expenses were charged upon different ac counts. The whole sum then charged was 24,3001. Now the total was 36,0001. But although there was this increase upon this head, there was a decrease upon garrison charges of above 3,0001. The Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) seemed to wish to cut down the expences to those of 1792, without returning to the system. No policy could be so bad as that of rendering the Staff of the Colonies inefficient. Mr. HUME said, that as there was Wily one-fifth of the Members then present in the House when he made his state ments, he felt it necessary to repeat his grounds for opposing the Resolution. The Hon. Member then went through his objections, and declared his intention of taking the sense of the Committee. The Committee then divided upon the Amendment, when there appeared— For the Amendment 33 For the Original Resolution - 109 Majority in favour of the Resolution —76 When the Gallery was opened— Mr. MABERLY on Isis legs recommending his Hon. Friend EMr. Hume) to abandon the useless task of disputing the stimates, item by item, since all his exertions were ren dered unavailing by the overwhelming majorities of his Ma jesty's Ministers. - He entreated his Hon. Friend not to ex haust his own strength and that of his friends, night after night, but to propose at once a reduction of taxation to the amount which he bad judged fair and reasonable, and then to leave the country to decide between him and his Majesty's Mitfisters. His Hon. Friend bad undoubtedly done more good for the country than any man who had sat in Parlia ment for the last twenty years.—(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches.)—Notwithstanding the cheers of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, he would repeat that he had done so ; but still he could not help, dissuading his Hon. Friend from pursuing a system, -which the determination of Ministers not to make any effectual reduction of the Public Expenditure, rendered wholly unavailing. The next Resolution was for a sum of . 2,2611. 16s. 6d. for. defraying the charges of the Staff in Ireland. Mr. W. SMITH trusted the Hon. Member for Aberdeen would persevere in a course, in which he bad already suc ceeded to an extent which must have exceeded every man's expectations. Mr. HUME expressed• his determination to persevere, not withstanding the discouraging opposition he had to encounter. Under the present circumstances of Ireland, it was not his intention to oppose the present vote; but in a period of tran quillity it would admit of considerable reduction. Mr. R. SMITH said he understood his Royal Highness Prince Leopold had, with a proper consideration for the dis tressed state of the Country, expressed a desire to have his income reduced to the same scale as that of the Royal Dukes, He was sure the Country would feel the propriety of the step which had been taken by his Royal Highness: and he wished to ask the Noble Lord opposite, when he intended to make this important communication to the House ? The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he had received no such communication from his Royal Highness, and he was perfectly at aloss to know from what source the Honourable Gentleman had obtained his information. On the Resolution for voting 14,5121. for the Office and Staff of the Commander-in-Chief, Mr. HUME observed, that this was the same charge as had been Made last year. The allowance of the Commander-in- Chief had been increased from 9 guineas to 16 guineas a-day, at the commencement of the peace. He saw ne reason why this allowance should not be reduced to its former amount. His Royal Highness had now three Secretaries; a Military Secretary, at a salary of 20001. a-year ; an Assistant Military Secretary, at 6001. a-year ; and a Private Secretary, at 8651. a-year. There was no pretence for retaining these offices, or that of Chaplain to his Royal Highness, which was merely a nominal appointment, held by a Gentleman who possessed two other appointments. He proposed a reduction of 25411. in the pay of the Commander-in-Chief, and 10001. its that of the Secretaries and Chaplain, making in the whole a sum of 10,8561. instead of 14,5141. Lord PALMERSTON said, the pay of the Commander-in- Chief was the military pay attached by regulation to his rank in the army as a Field Marshal. In point of mental exertion, and strict attention to the duties of his office, it was impos sible for any public servant to discharge his duty more faith fully to the public than the Commander-in-Chief, and he was persuaded the House would not think his services overpaid. With regard to the official establishment of the Commander in-Chief, there was not a more important branch of the pub lic service than that which was discharged by iris Secretaries; and he was persuaded that this department would be crippled and rendered inefficient if the amendment proposed by the Hon. Member were acceded tu. Mr. HUME begged to ask the Noble Lord, when the rate of a Field-Marshal's pay was given to the Commander-in- Chief ? Lord PALMERSTON replied, that it was first granted to his Royal Highness in the course of the year 1813. Mr. HUME contended, that the increase of allowance to the Commander-in-Chief, from nine guineas to 16 guineas a day, had nothing to do with his rank as Field-Marshal, since it had not taken place, upon the Noble Lord's own strewing, till the year 1813. The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said, he should not have risen on this occasion had it not been for the very invi dious and unfounded view of the question which had been taken by the Hon. Member opposite. There was, perhaps, no individual in the country who possessed more entirely the public confidence than his Royal Highness the Commander in-Chief. Did the Hon. Member wish to degrade the Com mander-in-Chief, by putting him oil a sort of half-pay, as if he had insufficiently discharged the duties of his important office The Hon. Member opposite would not grapple with the matter in detail, but continued lumping in the grost. If they would go into the details, lie had confidence that they would be beat both by numbers and in arguntent. With re , }lard to the observations made respecting the Secretary to the Commander-in. Chief, they seemed intended to disgrace him after ha bad wasted his days and his health in the service of the country;, but . he had full confidence that the country would assist in repelling► the ill-founded attack. • Mr. MABERLY could assure the Noble Lord he had no intention of making an attack either upon the Commander in-Chief or his Secretary; all that he wished to do being merely to keep the Noble Lord to the recommendations of his own Committee. This the Noble Lord bad not done; and it was not fair to avoid the merits of the question by throw. ing out insinuations about " lumping," to, quote the word from the Noble Lord's own peculiar glossary. If. the Noble Lord would go into a Committee, be (Mr. Maberly) would challenge him upon every item. He had not found fault with the Commander-in-Chief. No man was more ready than he tikwish, that not his Royal Highness only, but every public officer who did his duty, should be paid, both in money and its honour. If they would separate the allowances of the Commander-in-Chief, he (Mr. Maberly) would have no ob.. jection to vote for them. Sir JOHN SHELLEY said a few words in commendation of the Commander-in-Chief, and in support of the original motion. Mr. G. BENNET defended his Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) from what he termed the poisoned arrows of the Marquis of Londonderry. He contended, that the proposal to reduce the allowance of the Commander-in-Chief cast no personal re flection upon him. He was quite sure ,that his Hun. Friend had no sock intention, and joined with him in saying, that the increase from 9 to 16 guineas, which had taken place since 1814, was, considering the alterati on w hi c h h a d taken place in the value of money, too much. The Marquis of LONDO;S;bEIIRYCid not say a word about motives : he only thought that the proposal had s tendency to place the Commander-in• Chief and his Secretary in an odious• situation. General GASCOYNE defended the original motion, and cor.tended that the Commander-in• Chief ought to hare more,- in consequence of the relative situatio❑ in which he stood to' the Crown. Lord PALMERSTON made a few remarks tending to shes that the duty of the Secretary had increased since the peace s in consequence of the increase of the half-pay.. Mr. CALCRAFT thought the amendment, if carried,- would he injurious to the service at large. It was not so jd dicious as the motions which. his Honourable Friend (Mr. , Home) was in the habit of making, and therefore he (Mr. C.) would feel it his duty to oppose it. Colonel TRENCH observed, that the Staff were not better paid than in 1793, while they had more duty. Mr. HUME rose to reply. He had intended to cast na stigma ow the . Commander-in Chief or his Secretary. He thought that the Amendment Which he had proposed was of public utility ; but as the House was, he knew nut how, against him, he mould not trouble them with a division, al though he would not wit hdraw his Amendment. The Amendment was negatived without a division, the ori ginal motion was cart ied, and the Report ordered to be re- , ceived on Tuesday next. The other Orders of tht Day were then disposed of, and the House, at Half-past Twelve, adjourned till Monday next. • LIST OF THE MINORITY ON MR. CREEVEY'S MOTION, " That it be referred to a Select Committee to inquire into the different duties intrusted to the Board for Managing the Af fairs of India, by whom the same are performed, and to re port their observations thereon to the House." Althorp, Visct. Haldimand, W. Phillips, G. R. Beaumont, T. W. - Hamilton, Lord A. Price, R. Baring, Sir T. Hill; Lord Arthur Pym, F. Barrett, S. B. M. Ilobhouse J. C. Ricardo, D. Bennet, Hon. H. G., H ug h es' IV. L. Ridl e y, Si r M. W. Benyon, B. H ume , J. Robarts, A. Bernal, Ralph Hurst R. Rob ar t s , George Birch, J. H u t c hinson, Hon. Rob inson , Si r Or. - Brigh,-Henry C. H. R usse ll, R. G. Burdett, Sir F. James, W. Rice, T. S. Byng, George . • Johnson, Col. ' Rickford, Wm. Boughey, Sir J. F. Lambton, J. G. S m i t h, Calvert, Lennard, T. B. Smithy Calcraft, John Lushington, S. Scfton, Earl of Cavendish, Ld G: Leyeester, Ralph Stuart, Lord J. Cavendish, H. Moberly, John Sykes, 1). Cavendish, C. Moberly, W. L. Taylor, Al. A. Coffin, Sir I. M'lntosli, Sir J. Tierney, Rt.Hn. G. Coke, T. W. Martin, J. Tynte, C. K. Colburne, N. R. Monk, Hon. W. Warre, J. A. Concannon, Lucius Moore, Peter Webbe, E. Crespigny, Sir W. Marjoribanks, S. Wharton, J. Crompton, S. Normanby, Lord Whitbread, Dennison, W. J. Newman ' R. W. Williams, Duncannon, Visct. Nugent, Lord Williams, Ebrington, Visct. O'Callaghan, Col. Williams, Ellice, Ed. Ord, Win. Wilson, Sir R.- Fergusson, SirR.C. Ossulston, Lord Wood, Ald. Foley, T. H. Palmer,. Col. TELLERS. Folkestone, Visc. Palmer, C. F. Creevey, T. Griffiths, J. W. Phillips, G. Smith, W. The approaching Assizes for this county are expected to be the heaviest ever known ; there are at present nearly 200 criminals for trial, many of whom are for capital offences.--(Kentish Gazette.) Letters received from Suffolk and Norfolk state that, on the night of Thursday lust, a bar ley-stack was set on fire at Harlingfield and con sumed; and on the night of Monday last, one stack-yard was consumed at Stonham and another at Earl Soham. In the neighbouroood of Diss, and also of Thetford, additional burnings are reported to have taken place. COAL-MARKET, .41 Altc II 15. Ships at Market. Ships sold 54. Newcastle - 33 1 71i Sunderland - 18 Price. '3os Od to 41s 6d 33s 9d to 43s Od COURSE OF EXCHANGE, March 15. Amster dam Ditto, at Sight l2 4 Rotterdam l2 9 Antwerp l2 4 Hamburg!' 37 2 2f Us Altna Paris, 3 Day's sight 2s 21 30 0 Us. Ditto nourdeaux, ditto Frankforton the lk. , ain Madrid Cadiz Bilboa 36i Ettecti: , e . Barcelona Seville Gibraltar Leghorn Gcl.oa •..........4 -Venice, Ital. Liv 27 tiO Malta 45 -Naples 4O Palermo Lisbon Oporto Rio Janeiro Dublin .. . S , BULLION. Portugal Gold, in Coin 1..0 0 0 par Oz_ Foreign Gold, in Bars - 3►; 101 New Doubloons New Dollars 0 4 10 Silver in Bars, Standard o 4 111 B I RTII S. Yesterday, at Odiham, Hants, the Lady of T. Frere, Esq., of a daughter. Jan. 22, at Largan, County of Armagh, the seat of her father, Chas. Brownlow, Esq , the Lady of Lieut.-Col. 'Neil, 2d Life Guards, of a son, still-born. MARRIED. On Tuesday, at Atward, Mr. Hole, of Bradford, to Miss Smart, of the same place. On Tuesday, Mr. Thomas Kelson, of Twerton, to Diana, eldest daughter of Mr. John Eyles, of Kendleshire, near Win terburn. DIED. On Tuesday last, very suddenly, Mr. Smith, of Lincoln. He had long been afflicted with that extraordinary disorder, the ossification of the heart, and congratulated himself a day or two before his decease with having at length met with relief from medicine, as he had been free from pain for a long time ; but on the morning of his d ea th, h e su dd en ly com pl a i ne d of pain, and almost instantly expired. At Potterne, near Devizes, aged 82, Thomas Tanner, Esq. Lord of the Manor of Potterne. On Thursday, 'at Bath, Illrs. Napleton, widow of the Rev. Dr. Napleton, late Canon Residentiary of Hereford Cathedral, and Chancellor of that Diocese. Same day, at Bath, Mrs. Selina Bathurst, youngest sister to the Bishop of Norwich. Printed and Published, for the PROPRIETORS, at the SUN- OFFICE, 112; Strand, by J. B. CAnsTAnti.