The Sun. — London, England, 1847-01-29 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Jan. 25. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. POSTAL ARRANGEMENTS, &c. Lord CLARENDON laid on the table of the House papers relative to the postal convention between Great Britain and Prussia, France, and Denmark; an account of the fees received in the offices of the Second Remem bra,ncer of Ireland ; an account of the supplies remain ing in the Mint ; and a report from the Commissioaers of the Public Works in Ireland. Lord BROUGHAM said that the papers laid upon the table, more especially those relating to the foreign postal arrangements, were of the highest importance, but there was one objection to which ho wished to call the attention of the Noble Lord, as respected Italy. The Noble Lord was aware that it was not necessary to prepay in this country letters addressed to France, Bel gium, or Holland; neither was it necessary that indivi duals in those countries should prepay letters addressed to Great Britain ; but the same law unfortunately did not apply to Italy, and he (Lord Brougham) was in the habit of receiving large packets of letters, fre quently of the most worthless character, which, as they were almost invariably marked " private," he took in and paid for. He paid four shillings on one morning fora long account of some individual's experiments in galvanisin—(Laughter)—and the only revenge he had was doing up the communication in stout brown paper, and addressing it to the party who originally sent it.—(Laughter.) THE LAW OF SETTLEMENT. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition, signed by the mayor, several justices, five aldermen, the incumbent and other clergymen of East Looe, and two hundred of the most respesable inhabitants, praying for an alteration in the law of settlement. DISTRESS IN IRELAND. Lord BROUGHAM expressed his opinion that it would be desirable that their Lordships should be fur nished as soon as possible with a copy of the Bill for the further provision for the relief of the poor in Ire land. The Noble and Learned Lord went on to say that he had been obliged to leave the House before the con clusion of the debate on Monday night, and his Noble Friend opposite (Earl Fitzwilliam) in alluding to that circumstance said that he had gone off like gun cotton, and left no residuum.—(Laughter.) He should be sorry to say anything unnecessarily to interfere with . the si mile of his Noble Friend whose poetical genius they would all admit, but a simile should always convey a likeness, and in the simile of his Noble Friend, there was no likeness, inasmuch as his whole speech was founded on the residue which he had left behind him. His Noble Friend had stated that his (Lord Brougham's) speech had been de omnibus rebus et quibusdam aliis, but that would apply more correctly to the multifarious speech of his Noble Friend himself.—(Laughter.) With respect to the state of the Irish poor, it was desirous that their Lordships should be furnished with the fullest in information, and he was ableto:state that from additional information which he had recently received, there were in Liverpool between 25 and 26,000 persons receiving relief at the soup kitchen, out of which number more than I 22 001 were destitute Irish persons.—(Hear, hear.) He would not say much upon the subject of soup kitchens on that occasion merely, but would allude to the circum stances as a proof of the extent of the distress, and state a fact of which he had been informed of in connec tion with the management of the Liverpool soup kitchen. It appeared that certain persons of exalted station in Liverpool had from religious feelings on the subject of the observance of the Sabbath, chosen to prevent the opening of the soup kitchen on Sundays, and thus to deprive 25,000 persons of relief on that day— (Oh, oh) — forgetting the example of the Redeemer. When the apostles were rebuked for plucking ears of wheat on their Sabbath he interfered, and that circumstance called forth the beautiful passage in the Scriptures in which the Saviour asked if a man's ox or his ass fell into a pit on the Sabbath, would he not relieve him that day?—(Hear, hear.) He (Lord Brougham) dared to say that those misguided people—those zealots who ob ject to the use of the soup kitchen on the Sabbath, had eaten comfortable dinners that day, and had al lowed their servants to cook them.—(" Hear, hear," and cheers.) This mixing up of religious faraticism with the cause of charity and benevolence, was one of the greatest eurses that could be experienced.—(Hear, hear, frcm all parts cf the House.) An individual connected with agitation bad been reported to have said that the mo ney raised in this country for the relief of the destitute in Ireland, was to be used for the purpose of making converts from the Catholic religion, whilst the people were suffering. That individual had denied the truth of the statement, but he (Lord Brougham) would ear nestly direct the attention of their Lordships to the opinions which two individuals he should name held in reference to it. The Rev. Mr. Bickersteth recommends a fund of 20,0001. to be raised for the purpose of sending missionaries to Ireland to strike while the iron was hot. Now that was as bad a thing as he ever heard from priest or layman.—(Hear, hear, from both sides of the House.) It was one of the most wicked things which could be done to sow dissension at a time like the present when charity and benevolence ought to pre vail amongst all.—(Cheers.) But there was a most re spectable banker in the city of London who stated that no one but an infidel could doubt that the present state of Irelaud was a judgment of Providence caused by the Maynaoth grant.—(Laughter.) That gentleman did not agree in opinion with Mr. Addison, expressed in one of the ablest papers of the Spectator, the object of that paper being to chide those who pretended to be always finding things to be judgments of Divine Providence.— (Hear, hear.) They had always heard that the ways of Providence were inscrutable, but such individuals would affect to understand and to describe the inscrutable views cf Providence. Earl FITZWILLIAII was exceedingly glad that he had given the Noble and Learned Lord an opportunity of stating what he had done. He thought some official information ought to be afforded them on the subject. He only wanted to say one other word about this judgment question. It was most extraordinary that these gentlemen who were so confident upon the matter, did not perceive that it was not the Protestant Parliament of England that was suffering from the visitation. In point of fact the evil had fallen upon the individuals in whose behalf they became sinners, so that the sinners themselves had escaped.—(Hear, hear.) The subject then dropped. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition from the relief committee of Cork, praying Govern ment to adopt measures for the speedy importation of corn into Ireland. THE LAW OF SETTLEMENT. Lord WALSINGHAM presented a petition from Norfolk against the present law of settlement. Earl FITZ WILLIAM said the Noble Lord (Lord Walsingham) was probably aware that a great move ment was commenced in Norwich in favour of what was called a national rate; that was, in fact, to take the maintenance of the poor from under the local rate, and throw it on.the Consolidated Fund. Now of all the schemes which were likely to be mischievous to the poor, this, of throwing their maintenance on a national rate, was the very worst—(Hear, hear) — for under it there would be an end of ail the indepen dence of the lower classes themselves. He would be bound to say, that the moment the local board had the management of the Consolidated Poor Fund in their power, a scene of wasteful extravagance would ensue which would have no parallel. Lord WALSINGHAM said that he entirely agreed with the prayer of the petitioners, on the mischiefs which arose under the present poor•la.w distribution ; for the interest which the rate-payers had in keeping down the poor rate operated greatly against the poor man in his desire to gain employment. He was sorry that at present there were no inducements held out for industry or good conduct. IRELAND. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid on the tab'e of the House all the correspondence which had taken place with the Commissariat of Ireland and the Board of Works, relative to the distress which at present existed there. MILLBANK PRISON. The NOBLE MARQUIS also ►aid on the table the re tort of the Commissioners who were appointed to inquire into the management of theplillbank prison, with copies of the evidence taken before them. The House then adjourned. 110 USE OF COMMONS, Jan. 28. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. Messengers brought up papers from the Trinity House, from the Commissioners of the Metropolita❑ Police, and from the Northern Light-house Commis sioners. NEW MEMBER. Mr. CarAPLIN, late Sheriff of London, and Chairman of the South-Western Railway Company, took the oaths and his seat for the city of Salisbury, in the room of Ambrose Hussey, Esq. ' who has accepted the office of Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds. SECOND READINGS. The following Bills, on the motion of Captain zuERTON were read a second time : Birkenhead Dock Company Company and Herculaneum Dock Amalgamation. Birkenhead ( rza j provement Acts Amendment (No. 1). Birkenhead (as to construction of Dock Acts Amendment Birkenhead c's!lL wall along Wallasey Pool). (Commissionersnewl) Dock Acts Amendment (construction of PARISLI t o 3 r u i.s and alteration of culvert). an i d me s s e e , nt e d a petition from the Sir H. DOUGLAS L IVERPOOL. mayor, corporation, vestries of Liverpool, that stating that for some time ' ett 123,000 inhabitants, had been p oabliafford relief to a parish, with its 2,000 persons in the workholf:- toand 4,000 of it; that a great additional burdene' 1 out upon the parish by the Poor Removal Bill t se ssion, and representing, that ow i ng to the ldisces-s-e-d con dition of Ireland, no less tha n 288 .799 had been thrown for support upon the sincerates rshP"r vember, and that the number hail steadily increased during No. during the last five weeks , from 102,072 per week to 130,795 last week. They complained of the great bur then thus thrown upon a single parish by the distress existing in Ireland, and submitted that that could be no reason for throwing so many casual paupers from Ireland upon them, and praying the House to afford them some remedy. ELECTORAL DIVISIONS. Mr. WATSON presented a petition, numerously and respectably signed, from the town of Kinsale, stating that the system of electoral divisions under the Irish Poor-law had acted oppressively in forcing the worn-nut poor to go from the rural districts to the towns ; that at bad cast the burden of supporting those poor on the towns, and were thereby called upon to pay three or four times as much as the rural districts. This bad caused 70 of the first and second-class houses in Kinsale to be untenanted. Scarcity and famine had filled the work- THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY MORNING, JANUARY 29, 1847. house with 150 more persons than it was built to accom modate. The petition prayed for inquiry and relief. POOR-LAW REMOVAL. Mr. BANKES presented petitions from several places in Cornwall, praying for an immediate amendment or total repeal of the Poor-law Amendment Act. TEN HOURS' BILL. Mr. BANKES also presented a petition from Bury in favour of the Ten Hours' Bill. TOBACCO DUTIES. Dr. BOWRING gave notice that to-morrow it was his intention to move for returns relative to the tobacco duties. _ _ MONTPENSIER MARRIAGE. Mr. FINCH said he would on an early day ask a question of the Noble Lord the Secretary of Foreign Affairs with respect to the correspondence which had taken place between the Governments of England and Spain'respecting the Montpensier Marriage. MINISTERIAL MEASURES (IRELAND). Mr. ROEBUCK said that he would move upon an early day, as additions to the plan announced by her Majesty's Ministers for relieving the existing distress in Ireland—first, an appropriation of the revenues of the Irish Church for the purposes of a more general and extended education ; secondly, to extend the income and property-tax to Ireland ; thirdly, to alter the Poor Removal Act in such a manner as to allow different parishes of England to send back to their own parishes all Irish paupers, at the expense of the several parishes to which they belonged. POOR-LAW (IRELAND). Mr. WILLIAMS gave notice that he would move that the second reading of the Poor-law (Ireland) Bill, and also the whole of its other stages, should take precedence of all other measures under the considera tion of the House. Lord G. BENTINCK gave notice that he should ask fcr leave to bring in a Bill to stimulate the profitable employment of the poor in Ireland, by the encourage ment of the construction of Irish railways. OCCUPATION OF CRACOW. ' Mr. FIUME gave notice of his intention to move for a copy of the notice or presentation made by the Russian Envoy, dated the 10th of January, to the Court of Switzerland, with respect to the federal contract of Vienna, relative to the annexation of Cracow. DISTRESS IN IRELAND. Mr. ROEBUCK said lie should take that opportunity of asking a question, of which he had already given notice, of the Noble Lent at the head of the Government. He assumed that the Noble Lord, in all the schemes for the relief of distress in Ireland, must have made some calculation—he did not mean to say a very nice one—as to the probable amount of money re quired for that purpose ; and if the Noble Lord had made that calculation as to the probable amount, he must have fully entertained in his own mind some pro position, assisted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with reference to the means of'raising the sums which he required for that purpose. Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in answer to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, stated that up to the Ist January the amount of money issued from the Exchequer was one million. There had been at that moment an additional million, so that altogether the amount issued up to the present moment was two millions, which would be expended under the Labour-rate Act. With regard to the commissariat department, it was im possible yet to make anything like an accurate estimate. Under the existing Act, however, if the expenditure went on in the same ratio as at present, the out lay under the Labour-rate Act would not be less than from 500,0001. to 600,0001. a month, which up to August next might be calculated, in round numbers, at seven millions. By the plan which the Go vernment proposed to introduce, he apprehended that a considerable reduction would take place in the expen diture under the existing Act—how much he was not in a position to say. With regard to the financial plan, he thought it was better to reserve what he had to say on that point for a separate financial statement : whether that statement should be made before the ordinary time or not he could not then say, bat ample time would be given to the Hon. Gentleman. Mr. ROEBUCK did not think that the Noble Lord had given a clear answer to his question. He put it with a view to ascertain the cost of all the plans, as he was desirous to know the probable expenditure of the whole plan. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—The Hon. Gentleman's question referred only to the present expenses which were incurred in Ireland, and, he believed, asked what would be the probable expense of the improve ments made in that country. With the Honourable Gentleman, he regretted that there had not been the same advantage obtained from the employ ment of the money voted last session, but he should recollect that the sum of 1,000,000/. was voted under what was called the Drainage Act, and it was not wise to complain of the provisions of that Act. But with respect to the construction of that Act, he might reply that it was not intended to alter either the time, or the amount of interest, or the period at which the principal was to be paid up, so that the provisions of the Drainage Act remained unaltered. PUBLIC WORKS IN IRELAND. ;Sir. S. O'BRIEN wished to ask the Right Hon. Ba ronet at the Head of the Home Department, whether it was intended to alter the system pursued in the employ meat of labourers in the public works of Ireland? Sir G. GREY said that there were, doubtless, many abuses, but, from the nature of the circumstances, would be impossible to prevent them ; as seen as pos sible a more strict supervision would be exercised, and the system should be altered. Mr. S. O'BRIEN—Was there any statement of the money expended on the public works ? Sir GEORGE GREY—The Hen. Member will find them in the Treasury minutes. IRISH PALTERS AND LUNATICS. Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN moved for a return of the number of paupers admitted into each workhouse in Ireland during the year 1846 ; number discharged durinc , same period ; number died during same period ; number in house on each Saturday since the Ist day of November, 1846, showing the number which each workhouse was originaly constructed to receive ; number ill of fever, of scarlatina, of dysentery, or of contagious diseases, on each Saturday, showing the number which the sick ward or hospital attached to each workhouse was originally constructed to receive; number who died daring each week since the Ist day of November, 1846, distinguishing such as died of contagious diseases in each workhouse, or in any hospital or ward attached to such workhouse; number of paupers affected with fever, or other fobrile contagious diseases, transferred to any hospital under the fifteenth clause of the Poor-law Amendment Act of 1843; number of lunatics transferred to any lunatic asylum from each workhouse during the years 1844, 1845, and 1846; copies of all communications made by the Poor-law Commissioners to boards of guardians on the sanatory state of the workhouses; of any communications made by boards of guardians to the Poor-law Commissioners, or of minutes of proceedings of such boards, respecting the prevalence of disease in workhouses; of any instruc tions given by the Poor-law Commissioners to any phy sicians or surgeons, to inquire into the nature and ex tent of disease in any workhouse, and into the cause of such disease, together with the reports of such physi cians or surgeons thereupon. THE QUEEN'S LETTER. Mr. HAMILTON wished to know from the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether the funds, which might be col lected in the different churches, through the Queen's letter, would be administered to the starving poor of Ireland, through the Commissioners who had been ap pointed, or whether they would be dispensed by the clergy of the Established Church of Ireland ? Sir G. GREY said it was the intention of the Go vernment that the funds so collected should be placed at the disposal of the committee recently established in London for affording relief to the destitute poor in Ireland and Scotland, the members of which bore a high character, which was a sufficient guarantee that the funds would be properly applied. Many of them were clergymen and members of the relief and local committees, and as they mit in concert with the Govern ment, those who contributed to the fund would have the satisfaction of knowing that the relief would be properly dispensed. on, was piratical, and that he would treat every British or French officer that fell in his power after the manner of pirates. This was not an empty threat. A British officer of the name of Wardlow was seized upon while under the protection of a flag of truce. He belonged to her Majesty's ship Racer, and the whale-boat in which he had been reconnoitering, having been stranded, he displayed a flag of truce; it was answered by another, and he ac cepted the invitation like a gallant, frank sailor, as he was, although it was against the advice of some of his friends. He had not been long departed when a whale-boat was seen advancing, and the voice of the gallant officer was heard shouting to his crew " I have been sold, I have been sold, fire and defend yourselves." The crew escaped and when Mr. Wardlow was demanded of the authorities they replied that he had fallen in the skirmish. Hisbody was then demanded—but they were ashamed or afraid to give it up, lest their guilt:too becameknown. But the whole truth had become known. Mr. Wardlori had been taken before the commandant, and he had told him that if he made his crew surrender it would be the better for him. The gallant young gentleman, however, chose rather deliberately to sacrifice his own life for the sake of his crew and the honour of his flag.—(Hear, hear.) Being brought back to the commandant, he ordered him to instant execution. First of all they cut off his fingers and ears, and then put him to a lingering death.: His (Mr. R.'s) heart swelled with emotion when ho thought of the fate of that young man. He wished now, therefore, to know from the Noble Lord whether, on the promulgation of the de cree of Rosas, any remonstrance had been made by the Noble Lord; and secondly, whether any correspondence had ensued, and with what result. Lord PALMERSTON was sure the Hon. Gentle man would excuse him if he declined entering into any discussion on the state of the nations bordering on the River Plate. He hoped the steps now in progress would lead to a satisfactory termination of the distressing state of things which existed in that quarter. With regard to the officer referred to, various statements had come to his ears. One sated that he had been killed in a skir mish, and another gave a different account of the trans action, but that was the first time he (Lord Palmerston) had heard of the mutilations described. In consequence, however, of the representations made with respect to the occurrence, the Admiralty did instruct Sir Thomas Herbert, the admiral on the station, to make inquiry into the ease, and to report upon it. That report he had not yet received. With regard to the statement alleged to be made in the proclamation of Rosas, that an officer acting under the authority of his superiors should be treated as a pirate, there was but one way, of course, to deal with it. CRACOW. Mr. III: ME wished to ask the Noble Lord whether he had any objection to lay on the table of the House a copy of the whole of the papers that had passed with respect to Cracow? Lord PALMERSTON hoped to do so in the course of a flay or two. TREATY OF VIENNA. Mr. HUME begged to ask whether the Noble Lord had any objections to lay upon the table of the House a copy of the convention that was entered into by the Three Powers in 1834, which especially confirmed the terms of the treaty of Vienna? Lord PALMERSTON was not quite prepared, on the part of the Government, to give an answer to the question. Mr. HUME.—Sorae such power had been given by that convention to take possession of Cracow by the three Powers. Lord PALNIERSTON should have no objection to give to the House all the information be possessed. Mr. MONCKTON MILNES said, that at the same time, perhaps, the Noble Lord would have no objection to present to the House any papers that related to the non-appointment of consuls at Cracow. Lord PALMERSTON said that he had previously stated to the House that it was inexpedient for the public service to answer this question ; and the same obstacles remain at the present moment, in consequence of the relation to this country of the three Powers to whom allusion had been nasde. NAVAL ARCHITECTURE. Lord INGESTRE wished to ask whether there was any objection to lay on the table of the House any papers that had been communicated with regard to the Com mittee of Naval Architecture? He also wished to ask whether any report of the Committee of Reference had been made to the Admiralty, and if so, whether there was any objecti.m to lay that report on the table ? It would be recollected that there were three members of that board, and that two of them had been promoted ; he wished also to ask whether, in the event of the ship constructed by that board turning out successful, it was intended to promote the third member, as they had pro moted the other two members of that board. Mr. WARD said a similar question was put to him the other night by his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume), who wished to move for returns on the subject, and he told him, in reply, that the naval reports in question had not yet been brought be fore the attention of the Admiralty, but he was in a position to state that they would be very satisfactory, and also that there would be no objection to lay them on the table of the House. All the reports that bad been received respecting the Thetis bad been most satisfactory, as they were to the effect that that ship would justify the expectations entertained of her. He had much pleasure in informing the Noble Lord that the Admiralty, without waiting for a confirma tion of this report, had removed Mr. Chadwick from Devonport to the office of master shipwright at Wool wich. SEED FOR IRELAND. Mr. TUITE inquired what steps the Government had taken to obtain a supply of seed for Ireland. Mr. LABOUCHERE could only refer to the declara tion made the other evening by the First Lord of the Treasury, that it was the intention of Government to afford every facility to supply seed to those persons for whom it was intended; orders had been given to up wards of 200 persons to furnish the necessary supply. With respect to the 50,000'., he could only say that if it was found insufficient, it was competent for Parlia ment to make an:additional grant. CONDITION OF CONVICTS IN THE HULKS AT WOOLWICH. _ _ . Mr. DUNCOMBE then rose to move for the appoint ment of a Select Committee to inquire into the condition of convicts in the hulks at Woolwich. He said he had been given to understand that it was the intention of the Government to consent to the appointmen of the Com mittee. If he was correct in this assumption, he would be saved from making painful state ments, and the House from hearing facts which they could not fail to consider both distressing and dis gusting. He thought that the proper time to enter into the question of prison discipline ; but, however, he should confine himself this evening to a narration of the cruelties of which he had to complain. He thought those cruelties were of a nature to demand such an inquiry as the one he sought. It might be necessary to inform the House, in the first instance, how those persons found their way to the hulks. The report of Mr. Capper for 1845, together with the sur geon's report thereon, had been furnished to the House. He stated that the prisoners from such del iks as Woolwich and Portsmouth were in a bad and unhealthy state, and unfit, from age and infirmities, to be sent abroad. The hulks at Woolwich were established for what was called "invalid prisoners," and he wished to call the attention of the House to the medical neglect and cruel treatment inflicted upon those prisoners: He was satis fled that all the reports *hick had been issued upon that subject were true, both as regarded the treatment of the prisoners while living, and after death. This conduct was disgraceful to a country calling itself anything like a civilised and Christian country. In the returns to which he had alluded, it was stated by the person making that return that the mortality on board the hulks in 1845 was only eleven persons. This mortality was contrasted in a report with the amount of mortality in the prisons of France, Philadelphia, and of Millbank Penitentiary. This morning, however, a re turn, for which he had moved some time since, was laid upon the table of that House, which would serue to show the House the fraudulent manner in which these returns were sometimes got up. The return for which he had moved was a return of the number of persons who died on board the hulks from the Millbank prison alone, and instead of the number being eleven, as stated in the former report, the number of deaths on board the two hulks. the Justitia and the Warrior, was twenty-eight from Mill bank prison alone. The question then arose, what was the cause of this increased mortality on board the hulks as compared with other prisons in the country ? In all their prisons there were visiting magistrates and inspectors, under Act of Parliament, who made anneal reports, and went round and asked if any of the pri soners had any complaint to make. With regard to the hulks, there was no one to ask if there seere any com plaints to be made, and no one visited them except the doctor and Mr. Perry. Was it their object to re claim the prisoners, or to make an example of them? If their object was to reclaim them, why was their education totally neglected? There were no prayers, and nothing was done for their spiritual instruction. The ships received on the average 620 prisoners every year, and during all that time the only Divine service given was on Sunday mornings. Nothing was done to instruct them—those able to work went to the arsenal and dockyard in the morning and returned in the evening. When they were dying they received no attention. The chaplain seldom visited them, and their last moments were passed with only the assistance of the other prisoners. There was cer tainly the great protection of the coroner's inquest to all individuals who died in prison. With regard to the conduct of the medical attendant, Dr. Bois soy, he stood there to state that nothing could be so neglectful as his conduct, and when he was present nothing was more brutal. There was no one except Mr. Capper, who was appointed by Government as superintendent of the hulks. He had been in the situation many years, but his control or inspection was not sufficient, and his duties had been left to a nephew of his, who acted as his clerk or superintendent, and ho was a grocer in the Strand. This person had done the duties which ought to have been performed by Mr. Capper. He also complained of the system of control, and the irresponsible power which the overseers of these ships had over the prisoners. He could scarcely conceive anything more unjust than a power being vested in a body to inflict any amount of corporsl punishment they wished ; and what rendered this more unjust was that there was no tribunal to which those who were suffering under the system could appeal. He would give one or two instances of the injustice arid cruelty of the system. There was a poor lunatic named Hetherington on board the Justitia, 7 b;ou h e2t o ve w dfT: ls itlu o earn r :e d ad e te r wl ed to receive several lashes, and was then ordered to receive several more ; he was then re ye he ee he six dmi attempted den nwo who oto Lead succeeda c d u t been his n brought doi throat, ng Vospi O n tal m- ease ' , where theywgere, necessarily c o ( b )n l i sg d u e t d o rteomtatiine for a long time, to the loss of the service in which they were engaged. Referring again to the Justitia, he would mention the case of another poor lunatic who had been ordered to receive two dozen. These had not been all inflicted upon him and the officer, whose duty it was to see their execu tioner, said to him on seeing him shortly after, "I owe you three dozen." There was another case of an unfortunate lunatic who was lying in confinement in all his filth, his urine, and his ordure. The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to detail the bad treat naent experienced by Wm. Theobald, who also belonged to the Justitia, and who suffered from epileptic fits and great weakness of body. Jams Brandish, a maniac, and Cooper, a nurse in the establishment, who had a bad liver complaint and a bag of matter lying at the pit of his stomach, also met with the harshest treatment. Mr. Alderman HUMPHREYS asked if the cases might not be over-coloured ? Mr. DUNCOMBE saki that he had authority for all he stated ; and, with respect to the last case, the unhappy individual declared at his last moments that he was a murdered man. Henry Driver, a Milbank pri soner, entered the hospital, on the 21st of May, and died upon the 26th, four days afterwards. When he died he was taken down to the anatomy-room and dissected, and his entrails were thrown into the river. When the dissection was over the vacuum was filled up with flannel, and sewn up in order to await the coroner's inquest to sit upon it.—(Hear, hear.) Now he would ask the Right Honourable Gentleman was that legal, was it not against the provisions of the Anatomy Act, in which it was provided, that forty-eight hours must elapse before dissection takes place, and more particularly so when a coroner's inquest is to take place. No medical man attends these unfortunate beings in their dying moments—all was left to the judgment of convict prisoners, for the chaplaiu never visits the sick. These nurses watch them with the eyes of hawks, and as soon as life is extinct, the yet warm body is drawn out and laid upon the floor, when the bed is ransacked for money, or other articles which they may have concealed. Now, he would ask, was it right that these unfortunate creatures should be thus exposed ? They were entitled to a portion of their earnings, he did not know how much, but he believed it was about sixpence a week, and this was the prey for which these nurses waited. He asked the Right Honourable Gentleman had he any idea that these things were done, or whether they could exist if there were a proper system of inspec tion. There is a feeling among those unfortunate creatures that they are allowed to die for the sake of their bodies for the School of Anatomy. He wished that a return would be given by the Inttpector of Ana tomy as to the number of bodies that had been sent from the hulks at Woolwich, and their places of destiration. He would prove that Dr. Bossy, when a coroner's in quest was about to sit, went round to the convicts and told them not to answer any questions which might be put to them by the coroner or jury, but to refer them to him (Dr. Bossy) for an answer. d Nhv i ea e ls d ie . avtead ß te U dt t ht li tot et be ei a t a 2 •8 1 ,:, from asa nd, 41. f t h r e e lmi 1 a lp s vr t ais r v e a t Nt. u ee r r n )i n s The medical officer had s t a t e d, t h at amongs t the 600 persons employed in th e h u lk s at W oo l w i c h, on ly 11 had , f po r t . the s ai bt n i l oe u nn:t beat h e a e r t future returns might make a change in this statement, but it was quite impossible, after what he had stated to the House, that these returns made to Government, by the medical officer, could be at all relied on, as re spected the convicts at Woolwich.—(hear, hear.) If they granted him the Committee, and the facts were proved, which he had alleged in the House that night, and he would undertake to prove those facts. if it were granted, it was quite impossible that this system could continue, or that the returns of Mr. Capper could be received by the Admiralty, or that they could long continue to he received as authentic documents. Ile should conclude by moving for the appointment of a Se lect Committee to investigate the returns made to the Admiralty of the number of convicts who had died at Woolwich during the last year? On the motion being put, Sir G. GREY said that under the present circum stances, he was quite unable to follow the Honourable Gentleman through his details, but he did agree with him, that if there was any foundation for these details, that they were quite unworthy of a Christian country. He must at the same time say that he bad made the utmost in quiry into the conduct of the medical officers at Wool wich Dockyard, and so far as he could ascer tain there was not the slightest foundation for the serious statements which had been made to-night. The Hon. Gentleman had spoken of corporal punish ments. In a conversation which he had with his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for the Admiralty, he had learned that the reports lately given them had only been one corporal punishment inflicted during the last 4 years. The Hon. Gentleman had gone over his points without giving him any previous notice of either their nature or details, and, of course, he had come there un prepared to meet the statements of the Honourable Member. At all events, however, if the Honour able Gentleman would supply him with the names of the parties who vouched for the accuracy of his state ment, the Hon. Gentleman might rely upon the matter being fully investigated. At present, however, he could not accede to the motion of the 'Honourable Gentle man, and, after the exaggerated statements which, it had turned out, ft, former petition contained on this subject, he trusted Government would not be . taunted with refusing Committees in the face of serious and revolting accusations brought against particular public officers. It was impossible to speak of Mr. Capper in other terms than those of high eulogy, as he had devoted from forty to fifty years of his life to that department of the Government which had the manage. ment of the convict establishments. It was the intention of the Government to introduce a Bill which would provide for the employment of convicts under as vigilant inspection as that employed in the various prisons of the City. If the Honourable Gentleman would furnish him with the par ticulars of the cases which he had stated to investigation, but it would the House, or of others which might come with intute an inquiry unless it his own knowledge, he would institute were grounds for making hear.) He hoped he would allow him at clear i w at t lio . el t r , e n : b ll oes e t 3r, all events to institute an inquiry in the way he proposed. well ar h searchingtaot a t i n h n d e s rt rigidie He hoped, therefore, the House would not accede to the appointment of the Committee which the Hon. Gentle man had moved for. Lord MAHON said, as the Hon. Member had brought forward charges without furnishing his authorities. He could not expect her Majesty's Government to concur in the appointment of a Committee. He ought to rest satisfied with the assurance of the Right Hon. Baronet that he would order an ample inquiry into the circumstances which he had detailed to the House. He must say, with respect to the system of the hulks, as hitherto conducted, it was in every one respect deficient; and as a proof of that, he would refer to the fact of the re-imprisonment of many any en offender after dis missal. If the House would refer to a report presented in 1842, by Mr. Capp , er the superintendent, they would find that the total number of prisoners confined at the beginning of that year was less than 1,625, who had been previously convicted for i various o ff ences , an d 487 known to have been before n custody. There w ere on l y 1,450 who were no t known tohave been in prisons be fore, and from this number mustbe again deducted those who had been imprisoned under i l fferent names, and had assumed an dlias. That spok t e volumes against the sys tem ; but it was premature o _d , isc . uss the question until be the It:ght Hon. Gentleman the papers promised j the table. He would only say, should have been laid on Hon. in resisting the moti on of the Member for Fins bury, that he was n ot to be supposed to support the system of the hulks if ' be voted Be favour of the Govern ment on the present occasion. Mr. AG LIONBY said he was by no means in favour of the hulk b u t a t the same time that he m a d e that statement system, h e was very glad to hear that the s y stem ,1 ,1 and althoug h • e a men de d, it was had been in some degre he was glad admitted that there were abuses, he the Right to hear chat inquiries were to be made.to divide Hon. Member should feel it his duty , the House, he r occasions, divide with him. He on this, as on forme Ile did not mean to impugn the conduct ofthe Hon. Member in his place Hon. Baronet, but when at? h h ription, e must ave stisfied made charges of this desc . happy to 11 • when it i lieated himself of their correctness , hear rn men by name. He was b,PPY to . that there would be a commission to inquire into t . his case.—(Cries he had been misled by the allu of " No no.") Well, sion made to a commission by the Right Hon. B aronet which with reference to the Penitentiary , and_ he un derstood by parallel reasoning.would be granted tat in this case. His objection to a commission was, be h it would not admitted. be private, and the public press would Who were interested in having this committee see thought that it the parties accused, or the public ? IT both were interested in having the matter sifted el he (as he theb bottom. Even in justice to Dr. Bos' connected withY e he was called), and the other pa rties him, he thought that the truth of these statements ought to be investigated, for surely they 11ETC as much I interested as any parties in the country. li e heard the knew no. thing of this case whatever ; he h a d never names of the parties, and the only ground on which he voted for inquiry was, justice to all, by a public and im mediate investigation. What object could there be in the Right Hon. Baronet's refusing this ? He (Mr. Aglionby) confessed that he would rather that the Hon. Member for Finsbury had supplied the Right Hon. Baronet with the dates and particulars of this case, at the same time concealing the names of the accusers. But even then all that the Right lion. Baronet would have done, would have been to have sent down these allegations, that they might be investigated ; and, if possible, contradicted ; and he would have laid that contradiction on the table of the House, and expressed his belief in the truth of it. He should certainly divide with the Hon. Member for Finsbury, if he pressed the House to a division. Mr. WAKLEY said that after the statement which his Hon. Colleague had made he was bound in justice to press his motion to a division. His c olleague had said that he believed the statements that had been made ; how could he then fail in pressing his motion? He con fessed he was surpri, ed and disappointed with the obser vations of the Right Hon. Baronet. He thought it was not for any Hon. Member to go to a Government office, and there make statements which would be better ex pressed in his place in Parliament. He could not forget that when his lion. Colleague had brought the abuses of the Post-office before the House last session that , the principal witness before the committee, a per son named Mitchell, was dismissed after he had held 'eis office for ten years, and no fault had ' been found with him. His Hon. Colleague asserted that in the treatment of these prisoners every point of the law had been violated. He (Mr. Wakley) confessed that he could not believe what had been stated with respect to the medical officers.— (Laughter.) But if he did not believe that, it nag no reason why an iuquirs should not be demanded. (Sue half of the allegation i which had been made by his Hon. Colleague should be enough to justify an investigation, even if the other halt were unfounded. The Right Hon. Baronet said that he knew nothing whatever of this matter, he had not heard of it before. It was the more necessary, there fore, that he should grant an inquiry.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member had made these statements, and his public character was at stake.—(Hear, hear.) It would be monstrous, when so many helpless creatures were looking to that House for protection, that that protection to which they had a right to look should be now withheld. —(Hear, hear.) So zealous were our predecessors with regard to inquests held upon the bodies of persons who died in prison, and so careful were they to guard against the injurious prejudice of the authorities, and in order to prevent any deception or collusion between the parties, that they always ordered that the jury ap pointed to inquire into the death of the prisoner should be constituted of one-half prisoners, and the other half being composed of the inhabitants of the neighbour hood. He, therefore, entirely di,aproved of the propo sition to appoint a Commission consisting entirely of the authorities, to inquire into the subject. His Hon. Col league had said that many persons had died on board the hulks upon whom no inquest had been held, and he (Mr. Duncombe) further stated, that the conduct of the medical officer was cruel, and brutal in the highest degree. Was that man, then, to remain in his position without inquiry. It was due to the medical officer himself, if to none other, that an inves tigation should take place. He, therefore, ear nestly entreated, the flight Honourable Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department to reconsider the opinions to which he had given expres sion. It was the duty of the House to institute an inquiry when such charges were brought before the attention of the House. What were the duties of the independent members of this House unconnected by any of the ties of any party or of the Government, if they were not to inquire into such cases ? This House was the great inquest of the nation, and should not be backward in the performance of its duty. He would repeat that he would not be satisfied with any inquiry instituted by authorities. They were never satisfactory ; everything was softened down or extenuated, and the final result was, the House was satisfied, and did not consider any further investigation necessary. The House would fail to fulfil those duties which it owed to the most helpless of their fellow-crea tures, if it OM not grant the committee required by his Hon. colleague. Mr. B. ESCOTT thought that the public would not he satisfied if the House refused to grant the committee. It was stated that immoral practices existed in Wool wich Hospital. Under these circumstances he should certainly vote for the present inquiry. He hoped that Honourable Members would abstain from passing any opinion upon a report presented only that morning, and he was surprised that it should have been presented so suddenly to the House, without any com ment from the Government. Sir GEORGE GREY said that it was only because it was desirable that the matter should be brought before the House at as early a period as possible. Mr. FERRAND said that he quite agreed with the opinion of the lion. Member for Finsbury as to the Commissioners being generally trumped up. It was well known, that if a Commission was appointed to inquire into any statement, that it would be done only in private, and how could it be supposed that the public would be satisfied with this mode of proceeding? Mr. HUME—It was most desirable that that House should come to some decision on this question. It was said by the Right Hon. Baronet, that considering the number of persons interested, and that the charges were so grave that it would be only right for the Right Hon. Baronet to allow that Committee, he thought, there fore, that that inquiry should take place.—(Hear, hear.) On that ground he thought the House ought to institute this inquiry, and that fully sufficient and strong reasons had been adduced in support of the motion, and he trusted that, as the lion. Member for Finsbury had es tablished the grounds of his application, that the Government would not refuse the Committee. Mr. MUNTZ said that no attempt whatever had been made to answer the charges of the Hon. Member for Finsbury, and the medical men had never attempted a reply. The Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Home office, might be satisfied that if he refused the inquiry, the feelings of the public would be enlisted in favour of the convicts. For his part, he thought that the medical men perpetrated quite as bad things as other men—(Laughter)—and lie trusted that the medical men at Woolwich would not be sheltered under the Govern ment wing, but that the perpetrators of those enormi ties would be given up, and that the Government would agree to this Committee, and that the delinquents would be given up by the authorities; and he did hope thst this investigation would be permitted. Sir W. JAMES thought that such accusations as this should not be lightly brought against such respectable persons as Mr. Capper; and he conceived, that when such grave charges as these were to be made, that some intimation should have been given to the Government and to the parties concerned, as also that full informa tion should have been furnished tothe Right Hon. Gentle man the Secretary for the Home Department. It was well known that the Hon. Member for Finsbury was in the habit of making these charges, and that he was par ticularly fond of clap-trap speeches such as he had made that night. Had he Cully considered the subject, he would never have made such statements as these. Yet, notwithstanding the desire which he felt that this Com , mittee should have been moved for in a different . manner, he trusted the Government would grant it; but he warned them, that if granted, it would lead, it the charges of the Hon. Gentleman were established, tc an entire abolition of the system. Mr. OW EN STANLEY perfectly agreed that if the things stated in this allegation were proved, and if the facts with respect to Jacob Dodge were made out as they were stated to be last year and were substantiated, this commission ought to be instituted, and that the report of the commissioners was not satisfactory to the House. But yet, in granting this inquiry, they ought to be careful to substantiate the facts asserted, while at the same time he would desire that the results of this inves tigation should bring out the whole of the circumstances, and that they would support the assertions cf the Hon. Member. Mr. EWART thought that this inquiry more imme diately concerned the military department, but he did say that on an occasion like this, when an independent Member of Parliament produced such reasons, and ad duced such facts as those which had been stated by the Hon. Member for Finsbury, this inquiry ought to be granted, and he should therefore vote for the granting of this Committee. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said, that if the principle which the Right Hon. Secretary had ventured to lay down were to be acted upon, no independent Member of that House would dare to make a statement that was not guaranteed by some such authority. For his own part, he thought it was quite sufficient that an independent Member of that House made out a prima facie case for inquiry to en title him to the committee which he sought. The Right Hon. Gentleman had asserted that he was in the habit of making assertions without sufficient proof, and had brought forward the case of the Milbank Penitentiary. The commission had only this morning made its report, and therefore it was utterly impossible to make any ob servations upon it. He would only remark that this com mission consisted of Lord Chichester Lord Seymour, and Mr. Bickham Eecott, and the report was signed by only two out of three of the Commissioners, and he was per fectly content to rely upon the report of the Commis sioners themselves, for a justification of the charges which he had brought against Mr. Capper, and for the statements which he bad made. He was quite willing to stand by the facts which had been pnblishep, and he was quite ready to rely on the report which had been published for the justification of the statements which as an an independent Member of that House, he had made in his place in Parliament. And if such a privi lege as he assumed were to be denied to independent Members of the House, there would be an end to those investigations which could only be substantiated by the evidence to bo adduced before such committees as that which he now sought. With re sped to the committee on post-office affairs it should be recollected that the evidence had never been made public, and therefore the pnblic were altogether in the dark as to whether the statements which he (Mr. Duncombe) had made were substantiated or not, but it was evident that this investigation had been useful, and that the statements which he had made were borne out by the fact, that it was understood that, the power given for opening letters was to be abolished, and he thought that the secret espionage ought also to be done away with. The Hon. Gentleman had said, that these statements ought not to be made, without a' communication having been previously made to the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department. They had had such a communication with the Home Secretary, and nothing had re sulted from it ; but he repeated that a strict com pliance with the rule would entirely destroy the rights of an independent Member of Parliament. With respect to Mr. Capper, he would repeat, that he believed that Mr. Capper had not done his duty, how ever much he regretted that circumstance. It a com mission were to be appointed, he hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would be made one member and himself an other, and himself the chairman. He should conclude by moving that a Select Committee be appointed to in vestigate the condition of the convicts at Woolwich, and to ascertain the number of deaths that occurred amongst them during the last year. Sir G. GREY explained that he had had a communi cation with the Hon. Member for Finsbury, but could not at that time pledge the Government to enter upon the investigation which he desired. The House then divided. On the re-entrance of strangers to the gallery the numbers were ascertained to be — For the motion 44 Against it 77 Majority CHARGES AGAINST THE LATE SECRETARY FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT. Mr. FERRAND then roso to bring forty ard the mh tion of which he had given notice, relative to certain charges which he intended to make a gainst the late Se oretary for the Home Department.H e had to pray the House for an inquiry into the truth of the allegations he had to snake, and be asked the indulgence of the House while he endeavoured to bring . before its notice the grounds on which he asked for this inquiry. "Monstrum, herrendum, informeeit the late Secretaryagens cui lumen adeptum." of In 1944 the Right Hon. B aronet State for the Home Department did him what he felt, and what he would feel to the hour of h lie biserdieelaethd,thtaot he an act of the most cru el in j ustice. would that evening be able to convince the House that he was justified in making use of language he had at the meeting at Leeds, and that when he refused to justify that language in the House, he did so because he felt that by no right could he be called upon in that House remarks which he might to answer or to justify any make out of doors when examining into the public con duct of a public officer. Fie did not intend to enter that e, ening into theconsiderationof the new poor-law, for the House would have ample opportunity at a future period to discuss these questions, but he must be allowed to say, that nothing convinced him more of the rottenness of its; principle or its debasing effects upon the food of this country than that it received its death-blow in a poor house squabble. It had its origin in a dark document, and until that document was dragged into the light of day, its existence was denied, not only in that House, but in other places. So effectually had that law carried out the intentions of its authors, that in the union houses it not only induced the poor to live on the coarsest food, but it had degraded them, that they not only eat the carrion, but they fought for the stinking bones which they were grinding for the fields. No wonder, then, that a new spirit had arisen up throughout the country until even the defenders of the measure was compelled to admit that the law as it stood could no longer be enforced, and their must be a remodelling of the system. He could tell the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, that no remodel ling of this system would satisfy the people of this coun try, for they would never rest till justice was done to their feelings by a total repeal of this infamous and cruel law. In bringing forward to the notice of this House the motion which he had placed on the votes, he would endeavour to show first of all what had been the opinion of the Poor-law Commissioners themselves as well as of those others who had identified themselves with them in carrying out this law, and in doing so he would only quote Parliamentary documents, the truth of .vhich no one could deny, because they had undergone the most rigid examination, and if the truth of these do • cuments was denied within the walls of the House that evening, he (Mr. Ferrand) asserted that that was a double reason why a committee of inquiry should be granted to him. But let the House listen for a moment to the opinions of these administrators themselves, — a body of men to whom this Act had delegated au un constitutional and illegal power, the power of making laws which the people of this country were justified in resisting, even until death. He saw sitting in the House her Majesty's late Attorney-Ge neral, and he challenged him to prose that these laws of the Poor law Commissioners had been founded in any law of the country. No officer of the Crown had as yet dared to broach such a doctrine, and until it was clearly proved that the law was binding upon the people of this country he (Mr. Ferrand) would assert that it was their duty to re-ist, and as long as be had the honour of a seat in that House he never would assist in enforcing it ; neither would he, in his capacity of a magistrate, even when called on to assist in quel ling any riot arising from the infringement of the law, do so. The Hon. Member then proceeded to read from the evidence taken before the Andover Committee. In the answer of Mr. Lewis to a question of the Com mittee, he avouched that the Commissioners might discharge any assistant commissioner without assigning a reason. Mr. Chadwick said that on the 30th July he complained to Mr. Lewis, who was considered to be the gentleman most confidentially connected with the Secre tary of State for the Home Department, of some expres sions used by the Right Hon. Baronet regarding him, but Mr. Lewis's answer was, that he could get no re dress. And what did Mr. Chadwick complain of ? He complained that the late Secretary of state for the Home Department had charged him with wing cruel and ill tempered language, which had, in fact, been used by Mr. Lewis himself ; and in the evidence before the Commit tee, when Mr. Christie put the question, whether that letter had not been commented upon ? Mr. Chadwick replied, " No, never." Now, he (Mr. Ferrand) would ask, was it not hard that Mr. Chadwick should be ac cused of what he was not guilty ? And the chairman in putting a question to Mr. Parker, and he (Mr. Fer rand), in justice to himself, would ask the Members of that House to listen to what he was about to read to them ; for if there had not been a great anxiety to screen the authors of the unjust attack upon him, the evidence which he would now read to the House would never have been struck out of the evidence of the Committee. To the question of the Chairman, Mr. Parker replied that he had received notice from Mr. Lewis to go to ehe Andover union, and to report upon it ; and Mr. Parker was proceeding to inform the Committee of the late Se cretary of States's instruction in the matter, when the Chairman told him to confine himself as much as pose sible to the Commissioners ; but Mr. Parker was deter. mined that the truth should come out, and more would come out yet, and that at no distant day. The state meats made by the Home Secretary at that timd was left uncontradicted ; and he had no hesitation in saying that the Right Hon. Baronet bad allowed those under him to lie under a false imputation. The room was, after the asking of the question cleared ; and Mr. Man ners Sutton, the Under Secretary of State, struck hie pen through that portion of Mr. Parker's evidence, and it did not appear in the Blue Book. Now, let them hear the statement of Sir F. Lewis He said in answer to a question from the chairman that he considered Mr. Chadwick was an able man, but at the same time he thought him a dangerous and unscrupulous officer. Did they discharge Mr. Chadwick? No: Mr. Chadwick still remained se cretary to the Poor-law Commissioners. They dared not dismiss him. If they did he might tell that which might not be for the benefit of the Poor-law Com missioners. He would now turn to another portion of the evidence. There was a clerk of the name of Jenkin Jones in the office. He was excessively useful to the Poor-law Commissioners, and Jenkin Jones thought he was not sufficiently paid for his services, and by way of rendering a service to a friend he got him in troduced into the office as a clerk, for which he re ceived a sum of money. Mr. Lewis examined Mr. Jones as to his conduct in relation to this affair, but instead of telling him that he was guilty of a mis demeanour, as it was his duty to have said, he got all out of poor Jenkin Jones that he could, and teen he was the most active man in the prosecution against him. The case went to trial, and after Jenkin Jones had been induced to plead guilty, on a promise thae judgment would not be entered up against him, the late Secretary of the Home Department was declared to be adverse to any lenient course, although the Commis sioners themselves did not wish the case to go on, which called forth from Mr. Jervis the remarkable expression, remarkable because applied to the Right lion. Baronet in consequence of the course he had pursued," This man must be a brute." He would now, for the purpose of justifying the language used by Mr. Jervis on that occasion, quote the opinion of Mr. Coode, the Assistant Secretary. Mr. Parker had fallen into disfavour with the Poor-law Commissioners, and Mr. Coode, who had heard that a plot was laid, and that the scheme was being carried out at Somerset House, wrote to him to the following effect. Atter mentioning the plot he said, "I need not say how disgraceful the whole affair is, and how glad I shall be if their whole conduct turns out innocuous as they deserve, and I hope that their shabbiness will recoil on their own heads. If I do not what I can for yon, call me a rogue fit to serve my present masters." Now, this was Mr. Coode, , the Assistant Secretary. Poor Mr. Coode was not long before he was sent about his business. This opinion of his was much too honest for them. He had now given to the House the names and a few of the opinions of the Poor-law Commissioners and their clerks. He would now bring before their notice three scenes, one of which had been enacted in that House, another in the Com mittee-room, and another in the police -court. The House would remember that the Honourable Member for Finsbury had put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet, and had asked him whether he would cause inquiry to be made as to certain reports current that the poor in the Andover Union were living on rotten flesh, and the Right Hon. Baronet started up in his seat and said that he had never heard of it, but that inquiry would take place, and that that night he would send notice of the circumstance to the Poor-law Commissioners. He did so, and a person was sent down to Andover of all others he (Mr. Ferrand) would have thought the least qualified for the task, that person being the Assistant Poor-law Commissioner who had this very poor-law union under his immediate care. He was bound to say that this man, Mr. Parker, had fairly and fearlessly done his duty. He drew up a statement which he embodied in a report, and he went to the Home-office, and having informed the Secretary of State of the result of his labours, he gave him the report. The Right Hon. Baronet, after some discussion with him and with Sir Edmund Head, tried to induce these two officers to agree to a statement which was absolutely untrue—a statement which was con cocted for the purpose of deceiving that House. There (said the Hon. Member, addressing himself personally to Sir James Graham)—there was a Secretary of State for the Home Department teaching two public officers the art of dissimulation.—(Suppressed laughter.) How could these men be expected to perform their duties when the Right Hon. Baronet had asked them to agree to a statement which he should make to this House for purposes of dissimulation. He (Mr. Ferrand) was enabled to tell the House what occurred at this inter view. Sir James Graham said—" Now, what must I tell the House about this business. It will never do to bring forward this report—l'll tell you what I'll say: I'll begin by adverting to bone crushing and unions— shall then advert to the report of the commissioners—l shall state that I had an interview with Mr. Parker, who verbally reported to me the result of his investi gations, that some of the inmates of depraved appetites had taken the meat off the bones, and that the matter had been referred to the surgeons of the union, If, I say, that communication was made orally, that will suf fice for the House." That was the evidence given by Mr. Parker before the Andover Union Committee, and if that evidence was untrue, why did not the Secretary of State go down to the committee and prove it to be so ? But what a picture this was for a country to view! They had here a Secretary of State for the Home Department who had been Secretary of State for six years, during which time the Poor law gtho the bes go-between." Commissioners Irvienegns:T: h ( a uL d ae b u e gh e tai n tde h rr i .e s )c e p i uppets, and hadhe had bee nth the pulled I d n th L e ew in i - s instructionss Department,tr uctionsoft. andththee eleescsreert hadaroyffi- faithfullycoi afls Stateofficials. T The e f o o n r Hy the Home wouldH o thesem e o ofo n off o l eiwAoxwseueri August, tqn, e g: ins eBa ci tei6 ni nnmt: r the. Christie c m t puttee Tor Mr. ParkerOn the e th t h e r—ol"oAverreththe eCom Assistant-Secretarymi tteei ntheha a b n i d t the clerks, with respect to the evidence which they may be required to give?" This was a fair question, for the Committee was appointed to make a searching investi gation—but what followed? He (Mr. Ferrand) was not present, but he had a copy of what passed, and he would read it to the House. " Mr. Sutton hero rose, with great excitement of manner, and said, I must have the room cleared if this ques tion is to be put." He must have the room cleared. Why ? That the answer might not go forth to the world. The room was cleared, and for a consi derable time the Committee remained in consultation with closed doors. During the interval, Mr. Manners Sutton rushed out in an agitated state, and soon after Mr. Stuart Wortley followed, as if in search of him. On the return of the parties, sorco minor points of evidence were disposed of, and the Committee adjourned. Soon after this, a rumour began to spread that a meeting was likely to occur between the Under-Secretary of State and TIDAL HARBOURS. An MN. MEMBER wished to ask the Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of the Admiralty whether it was the in tention of the Government to proceed with the Bill for regulating the tidal harbours in its present state, or whether it was their intention to propose another Bill upon the subject, from which the obnoxious clauses would be expunged. Mr. WARD stated that the Bill referred to had been before the House for upwards of six months, that it originated from the report of the Commission appointed to inquire into the subject, but in consequence of the determined opposition it had met with from some very powerful quarters, it was not the intention of the Government to proceed with the measure in its existing stare. There was no person, however, who would not concur in the desirableness and absolute necessity of adopting_ some very stringent measures upon the subject of the tidal harbours of this country. Sir DE LACY EVANS, according to the notice he had given, asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the Secretary at War, what arrangement had been made, according to the promise of last session, for placing the troops serving in some of our colonies on an equal footing with those serving at home, in regard to ration stoppages ? lie also asked the First Lord of the Treasury if they might expect immediately on the table of the House, to be printed, the report (aid accompanying documents) of the In spector General of Military Schools, relative to the mili t try schools of France, Prussia, and other States, in connexion with their military institutions ; it being im portant that Members should have the opportunity of considering the information thus obtained before the arm': estimates are discussed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said i c: f e t t t h:d _ I:eathat, with regar d to t h e fi rst quest i on o f hi s Honourable !via Gall an t Friend, ho could assure him that the sub - regard be Treasury und er th e cons id era ti on o f the Secretary would yandthe Secretary at War, and means taken t o carry the prom i se i nto e ff ec t. su r With to the and d ocuments second question, the report !ant Office r would be sted by the Noble and Gal as possibl e f or the - hid upon the table as soon BUENOS Ay . " _!oformati on of Hon. Members. Ls.—EXECUTION OF AN ENGLISH OFFICER. Mr. ROSS s a id h e had ' FFICER. War of his intenti on o f agzng en notic e t o t h e S ecretary of interest, which involv e d i n his .:: pil°tw 0 questions of painful of their gallaat sailors, but alsno:hneotonly the w e lf are ti These questions had reference t o the conduct honour. d Rosas in his capacity of an official of i lat u c eno of Gene ra l Three vessels, under the joint flag of the Frsentlr a es. r English Governments, had succeeded in capturing a prise d which they found impossible to remove, and which they consequently burned. Mr. President Rosas immediately issued a manifesto, declaring that the war, as carried ~•~ _. wished to shoot Mr. Christie because be had put this I Mr. Christie—in fact that the Under -Secretary of Statert, , question to Mr. Parker. There never had b Mr. - answer given to that question, and 'if the did not think that it required an answer, be st ( ne- Ferrand) knew that the country expecte- c ol : There was the scene in the committee-room. lie " . .. t. , now carry the House to the scene in the po ti c , e .COise r After the occurrence in the committee-room Mr. rar , t , at mice proceeded to the Westminster Police-cotn't , 3 17 been n ou a se s there, to the astonishment of the worthy msgitte -7 - 1 `: answerable for the peace of the country to the Secre 0 1 7 of State for the Home Department, applied for a e to", rant against the llon. Mr. John Henry Manners SW e9ll - have him bound over to keep the peace towards th u s Honourable Member for Weymouth. The wart se' was granted, and a great-sized, robust pol lc!: officer was dispatched to the Under Secretary of S tat,if,. for the Homo Department, to intimat e to him that bitle' presence was required at the Police - offic e. Now, ron V t o h r e e f zli e us h e i , m w a h c e o th m e n r il i t t te w e as c r f i ginhqt,uiirny,thpeafratciceuoi ar _ a th sk is e , d t after the answers of the witnesses in the Andover U' lie!: Committee, brought out conduct as cru el, as tin leo and he would add, as infamous as ever disgraced 14 public office in this kingdom. He was one of t' I hose ' whose character had been attempted to b e destroce d b ,_ these very Poor-law Commissioners , becaus e within . thet walls he had fearlessly, and to the best of his hu eabl 0 abilities, attempted to do his duty,—(Hear, II a: .) Now, he asked the Secretary of State for the I PO! 8 : Department were these men yet in office ? Were_ OS Poor-law Commissioners exercising their contro' I eV er millions of their fellow-countrymen who we re too I eeor no claim redress in the courts of law ; who had, nil 3c4i, su' court to appeal to but that House. He demande d from the Secretary of State for the Home Department at s meat saver to that question—Were the prese nt Gov( mn men; going to screen the commissioners from any fur tied 3r in s ' re bel' thou q o j ui t r n y e ? Int nWee,rweerthnemyengzinngr hadto ltehaegvueenevoiethsetehdenUaie to refuse him the inquiry ? If they had, of cola: s e the committee would be refused him. But he lc, he w . well what the country would say - to such conduct I•7_ couetry would say that Government would not to ant tn . inquiry, because they were afraid of furthe." exce (Hear, hear.) The House would remember', th at some. three or four years ago. he brought under the ni )tice et the House an attempt of these Poor-law Commit ;goners of the to erect a treadmill in the union workhouse borough of Halifax. He made the statement ul , ion the tate for best authority, and yet the late Secretary of S contra the Home Department gut up in that House :Ind dieted him in the flattest terms. New, would dal ! 11. believe that at that very moment the sPe ci f cost of cations, and plans, and estimate of • sure. such a building, were recorded in the minutes of the board of guardians of that union. Mi e Cl' l elnee,l an A-sistant Poer-law Commissioner , mad e a ri port e bear out the statement of the Right Hon Durable Ile: ronet the late Secretary of State for the Hol mo Depart ment, ment, and afterwards, when the chairman or the boar: of guardians remonstrated with him on his col e duct, h, shook his fist in that gentleman's face , decla ring that what had been slated was false. /stow, lute ing give n to the House a slight sketch of the con duct a- the Poor', law Cotnmissioners, he would now bring the great Jenkin Jones's case, for the pterposie of sb e s ing to the House how these Poor-:ame Co hl.t - t , sioners bad carried on the busines e t " r ho office. Before, however, he did so, he wou Id iirsw" the of the Secretary of State fo: c the NI , Department to a circumstance that occurr td 'in Y °1. ,..., shire a few years ago. In a particular dist, ;jet the CT.% missioners determined to establish a union w orkhouse,ho_; bof ore there the people resisted the attempt, avd the I military the, called out to quell the disturbance. The c e nduct of fe: Commissioners was manifestly illegal, and had any . tea' been killed, the magistrate who calle, - I in them ilitarirt; and the officer who commanded them guilty of murder. But to return to the Jenkin J o i n d e 0 Case. That person was charged with leaving, so' . est office, and after this charge had been him Mr. Jones wrote a letter Secretary of State for the Home s ler , sferred againite Go tbe eet, ,would have be s e, g, PePartm otiee impugning the conduct of Mr. Lewis, but no n _..,.. 2 AIOO/, c ;,, ", whatever was taken of that letter. It aus clear, n„u___`4 l ev.-r, that Mr. Lewis and the Commission( ,rs were afraid of Mr. Jones, who was a poor clerk at 200/. e ye,t o. , , while his antagonist, Mr. Lewis, received' times as much as the firmer, for Mr. Cood r', th ° , 3 ge i ti ti- '' tary of Mr. Lewis, waited upon 'Mr. Jortos;nottitv t o mated to that gentleman that if he would pl..'ad g ul ;Alt the charge of misdemeanour that had Wes against him he would not be called up forju dg m n e 3 aft,er was a trick, however, laid to catch Mr. Jose ' , l,;leade d he had incautiously acceded to the request al'ut e r d, was guilty he was thrown into prison. Now, be as . . ." F "did bro t. le o Mr. Lewis still a Poor law Commissioner, and l' en - e utri Government intend that he should remain? The 1 4 , - t bst demanded that an answer should be given ;°,. th° question. The late Secretary of St ate i ° "" ei Mr: Home Department could not deny having reel e d eir Jones' letter, because its receipt was acki tovidej gen- Captain O'Brien, who was at the time the 11.11;fle the Baronet's Secretary. He could easily i osss te s• sere alarm with which the Right Hon. Baronet tb 0 1 °` 0 ,3 that tary of State for the Home Department lo s s ce rn i mediate l y letter. No doubt, the Right Hon. Baront,t,'.l4 i s a bad sent for Mr. Lewis, and said to him business. Here is this Jenkin Joner goinc: take evg and his month must be stopped. We Ice tSt what we are doing." After Mr. Jones , halt been thre e months in prison—his punishment was twelve In° 13 1 11 : imprisonment—he petitioned the Home of fi ce for Pa discharge, but no notice was taken of his petition, s °- in the end ho wrote a letter to Mr. Conde, intimatil that no notice had been taken of his pats tion, 913 declaring that he would not allow the ma tter to feet' In the end he was discharged, but at whose order Pll f ' e . Jones never could learn. The imprisonme eat did o c '; in any may injure his reputation, and he V i e ; ' '' .1'2.-0 tell sll, restored to his former situation - in an insur e-th'e company, and on his return he was presented bY 4 proprietors with 100 guineas. After quotir; s cl u „.. 6l) ; i t t ee of the evidence taken before the Andover C"r e `7, -- s a the Honourable Gentleman went on to sa y he ba ilie right to demand from the late Secretary of I: ilate 09 , sr s Home Department what had become of the prilate let not of Mr. Lewis? Mr. Lewis himself said he. co uld ,/, find them, but the truth was, they had been and it was the duty of the House to inquir e bon t o w 4l. were destroyed—whether they were burnt of ' Fu r f - w ere Some of them would yet be forthcoming, for the n " c lad documents in existence which Government wo a ld he; lo t to possess again. They had not got them yet, a nd heing was more they would not do so. He would n° w _ thi telf under their notice some circumstances more im isen des connected with himself. On a former occasio IA P - es ele Oared in that House that the Right He 41° 0 . 00 6 Baronet the late Secretary of State for ate , ' t ee Department had made a statement -„i n neff House which he knew was untrue. li e u the deStfOlhe distinctly repeated that charge. He would tel ne ro, House the mode adopted by the Poor-law Commt r,, ° ,,,ete • and the late Secretary of State for the Home. v e Ste4 mont, in getting up reports for the purpose of au" * ad the Honourable and Learned Member for Bo itan L e t himself. The person e m pl o y e d i n thi s i n f a mous- e c ' - bf, was a man named Mott, who formerly got his li v ing doe, farming the poor in several large poor-houses in re ')", of and who was an advocate of the Malthusian doette ln do inducing the poor to live upon the commonest gut ded and smallest quantity of food. Having recommet%eif himself in this way, he became an assistant Poeve e / Commissioner. He had been dismissed from this of 6e ; but was stiil kept in the employment of the Poorell'o, Commissioners its another capacity. He was nOW •!;' 0 publication under the sanction and eu editor and publisher of the " Peor-law Circular, r d pport ' a the Poor law Commissioners, at Somerset 11 t tis " .. He sent a circular to the effect that, that the guard' . would be allowed to take a certain number of conie,, ph that paper, as it would relate only to matters iu nr"'",, - b they were officially interested. That concern 50°i ecame bankrupt, and in what character did they tb; l3 l , e Mr. Mott next appear e d. Why, a partner in 1- s management of lunatics with Mr. Coode late Assist en Commissioner. Good God ! Could anything t he more monstrous ? He next appeared in r,,,; character of auditor of the district o n ';' ,-, and holding the office with the sanction of the Comma sioners of Somerset House. So much for that per i° ,`"f but how had M. Mott been conducting himself la te 44 Why he had been obliged to fly his country, to On e his creditors ; .and was obliged to take refuge in the Ora WTI of Man. (The Hon. Member here read an extract,„fre:- the speech of the late Secretary of State for the countyteod . him m This abouthi ins whichw a t s h a e t mh a time he tter .matter. resided,hNeno awhne, d was that a Department, which contained charges on him, and preee e ee . what s he considered hn an honourable course to be pursued 8. Some e urable course from one Englishman to se ° , t ` - f opportunity ought to have been afforded to hsw ° Vivi' defending himself, but in this case there was none. "" he deuce was given and received by Mr. Chadwick, T hene nothing magistrate shnndo tbee nfoirs ai: report was sent by that gentleman, to Mr. Mott. k r s . Hon. Member here read several extracts from the 1'0; in question), and continued—Some of the statements i t , that report were denied by witnesses of the most ableresPe°,,t character. That report was made on the 2d "; June, and they should now hear how the Bolton repe‘fr was drawn up. The Hon. and Learned Memberii; Bolton had made some statements in the House 7, t; respect to Bolton, and a special Commissioner was ! l e i t and who did they select but this very Mr. M ? li- v " e r. Mott le t that House shear how he conducted himself. Mr...-q$ went to Bolton, but never visited any single case brag' before that House by the Hon. and Learned Gentl eril f i fy . He resided there for some time ; and from the 91 3 a - 0 which he displayed, and from the little advantage th:f was likely to result from his visit, the inhabitants. Bolton thought it would be better to make some me". the matter themselves, and deputed Mr. Naseby to brill d before his notice the • cl . p ai case mentioned by the lieu. i, r Learned Doctor. Mr. Naseby called at Mr. Mott's, r e ' derce . , and he was told that Mr. Mott had gone find:- don the day before • but he looked through the vvii: and there he saw Mr.i Mott sitting at his ease.—( l4ati t" 0 ter.) Mr. Mott shortly after departed, and the B e tte t Report was drawn up. The House ordered that rep to be printed, and it was sent to the inhabitsti ts a Bolton. But what happened ? Mr. Ashworth and twelve most respectable persons in Bolt3n,eates, n ." the neighbourhood appeared before the InaFsis - r t . e.t and proved upon the :affidavit. But Mr. Mott s r e P ° - 34 , e e'et was a singular fabrication. The Hon. Membe r here .-e1;0 read copious extracts from th e report in question, tit eeS d , t l'eel gether with thb statement s re b u tting the alleg ations, _ contained. He must express his surprise that " i t s . t v e , -; e : l ot i statements then made, that any functionary s hotliq in e ..: e e r,,,e : l far have wandered from his duty as to have trende d i b e 'j proper motives, and accused of partisanship those Iv re" had adopted such proceedings. But still the late See i., tary of State continued Mr. Mott in office. A consett. cation was made which led to an application for thel i ) e 7., duction of papers with respect to this matter ; s,'? d s t e for was a statement made by the late Secretary, of Dta' h i mself the Home Department, and when defending I,er (Mr. Ferrand) he adduced this evidence, toge r r u 'id -- with letters and documents, which be soul