The Sun. — London, England, 1822-02-27 00:00:00

- :tin. It wain the nattwe -of a life annuity ; and-though the red acticre might be slow, it was certain. Ile would here re a•iest the attention of their Lordships to the Resolution passed b Parliament in. he year 1319, expressive of its determination to maintain a Sinking Fund of five million, to be applied arainaa the whole capital of the national debt. A Fund thus seleamla guaranteedait was the bounden duty of Parliament uphold 4 but whether it would suffn the accumulations of this Fund to increase, far Abe advancement of its first object, . or would reduce taxation by the amount of those accumulations, was a qu6stion which he admitted might he' open for the consideration of Parliament, and which might be materially in:ha-need by the pressure of temporary circumstances. — He now came to the proposed loan of four millions for the ralieC of that ,distress which was so very properly a material s'thiect for .their Lordships' consideaation. But before he etated.hia.views on this important topic, he would shortly notice 4aa,!cireninstinices connected - with the Bullion Committee of IBi ' 1t319 it was proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer _and himself to pay the Bank 5 or 6,000,0001. preparatory to 'heir being called upon to resume Cash Payments. It was .hnwever dwell known that when the Bullion Committee, had . ..rniasie its report,. the Bank urged the necessity of a larger re .paYrnant, and desired that the sum • previously named by Ali a i-titers should be extended to 10,000,0001. The Bank was ,cerasidered to have demanded more than was necessary, but at :the -awe time it was judged right to comply with their request, .1.,y making a repaytnent to that amount. He was however re canciled to it by what had occurred in the Committee. By re ferring to the evidence it would be seen that when the pies t'oa was asked, " What course would be taken if their issues of gold should prove unequal to the demand ?" tlie answer riven was, " That they Must lower the rate of their discounts." This had reconciled him to the demand thus made. Now, ,though he was ready to Five the Bank every credit for the pu - -rity of their motives, and believed them so act or, the best. judg . :iticat they could obtain in most cases, it was a most extraordi ' nuwitcumstakce, that at this moment when 'the market rate of intefest for money was not more than 4 per cent. the Bank rial not discount at less than 5. This was the more remarkable :when another fact which was known to every one was taken ainto consideration; launch',_ that the exchanges having been for a long time favourable, to this.country, had brought an im •rnense quantity of treasure to the. Bank, which was now in • their keeping. Though the Bank: continued to discount at 5 . per cent. they had consented, to advance 4,000,0001. on Exche quer Bills at three per cent. interest, with a view of.relieving the algrictiltoral Distress. This stun it was considered, by . being advanced in loans granted to the Parochial Authorities, ~or brbeing employed through the medium of the Commissioners Public Works, -or by being used in both ways, moald tend to .relielethe landed interest, and greatly facilitate the accom plishment of the object in view. The principleam which this. ,sum of 4,000,0 JOl. watato be advanced, had already been recog -nised when a similar measure was resorted to for-the relief of. .tho niNanufacturing interest, and he now avowed that he had' .the best authority for 'stating, that it would in all probability' ..afford great relief. When he said this he hoped no man would atake up the idea that that he meant to say the measure he had • recommended, any more than any other, would work wonders and remove the evil complained of immediately ; but what he -,meant to hold out was this, that in the judgement of his Majes ty'g Ministers, it would afford a considerable palliation. The loan, it was to be remembered, was not wanted for the service • .of the public. It war not called for with a view of aiding the . ways and means of the gear, but it was resorted to solely on ..account of the agricultural-interest, which it was thought would -derive much benefit from the extension of the circulation which .would thus be effected. No difficulty could be anticipated As likely to grow out of it, atThcting the currency, for the con .ditions on ai hich :the advance.avas to be made gave the Bank :the power, the _event of the exchange becoming unfa- vourable, _to claim the- te-payivent of each million at three ernonthe notice. This expedient had from the first appeared ,to him .calculated to meet the evil, which most loudly .ealled for ctuaress; anti nothia7 that he had heard at all .tended to alter that-opinion. Under peculiar circumstances it might have been unnecessary. if, for instance, the measure lowering the Bank discounts had been adopted, such an Advance might not have been required ; but as the Bank xontmtved to discount at Tive per Cent., it appeared to him in all respects applicable to the present situation of the country. :There -was one other. subject on which he must touch. Their -Lordships were aware that a Committee of the Commons had .sat, in the last Session of Parliament, on the Corn laws. Their 'Report was on their Lordships' table. That Committee had <been revived .in the present Session, to consider whether any -alteration in the'Cocraaws had become necessary. He doubted ;whether any immediate 'aid could 'be afforded by altering the •corn laws, but at,the same time some modifications might be made without -departing from their general spirit which would prove in many respects beneficial. The existing law was found defective in this—that it gave the corn grower a per cleat monopoly, till the price of wheat rose to eighty shil 'kings,. and then instead of admitting a gradual supply of „foreign corn, it allowed of its being thrown in masses into our market.. This change was too great, passing at once *rem all absolute monopoly—from an absolute prohibition, -to the moat unrestrained importation. The sudden transi /Von from 4)ne system to another, diametrically opposite in -i.!l character, - was .injurious, and it was therefore desirable ,to ascertain whether this could hot be altered with advantage. lie should now move I,r those papers, which he desired to.lay bef.n.e the House, holding himself ready to supply any further aenianations that might be required. He wished it to be dis i-:7;!ly understood, drat lie agreed first that the public expen x:..tfre should' be zedwed so far as was consistent with the avl:;:y of the country, and fidelity -to its engagements ; -that where •it was possible to alleviate the pablie burdens by ; 7 takingloic taxes, this should be done, so that that prineitaa 11314 not abandoned by which he was determined to stand or fail, the maintenance of public credit, and the establishment of in.efficient Sinking Fund. He concluded by moving for the froductioft of certain returns similar to those lately moved for ur the•other House. .• The 11Iarquis of LANSDOWNE agreed with the Noble Earl in some points ; anal he especially concurred with him in .considcring that it was proper to connect with his statement thAt most important feature in the present state of the country, Cie taxation under which it laboured, and which even when ,taase reductions had taken -place which the Noble Earl .contemplated, and which he hoped he would be enabled to ,carry into effect s would amount to 50,000,0901. lie felt it ,right, after wliat , had been stated elsewhere, at public meetings, and, indeed, after what had been stated by the Noble Earl him self Licit night, to give it as his opinion that the weight of taxa . tlun • with which the country was at present saddled, had a di tact bearing on She existing distress.' Ile felt it the more :le ' „oesaa.ry to do this, as the Noble. Earl had alluded to some fashinaable opinions on thi s s ubj ec t. ; an d t o him (the Marquis •, a il' 14madowne), it appeared that it was ziaw 4o:coming the fa ..ahlonii4e opinion in certain ()millers, that to consider taxation ee having any connection with the distress was altogether a vuk;ar error Some Gentlemen, fresh from their books and : their studies of political economy, had gone so far as to contend .at it was not only not injurious, but that its existence to sb • Large as amount was actually a favourable circumstance in . tne situation of the cauatry. Ile came to a very different oanciasion, and it was.-his epinion that a reduction of taxa ,tion was intaanarably connect - est with those measures which were necessary to relieve the .existing distress. lie proceeded to state the grounds on which he arrived at this result, and .:hewed that high.t.l.Xig could not be caused by low prices. The cure which area required in the present circumstances of the country, and which would be worth all the specifics of the Go aaatninezit, was increased consumption. This however could rat bl obtained without a reduction of taxation, and to attempt to make the market commensurate to the produce of the coun try, while taxation was to be maintained to its present amount, was to set in motion the.elements of oppasition and resistance. , Thepresent amount of taxation was a bar to recovery from the 'ldistresa. it had been fairly stated by the Noble Earl, that a part of the community were gainers by-the agricultural distress. 'This.he admitted to true ; but the necessity which existed. .„faz relieviug . .the suffezers has not theleas obvieus.. The Noble Earl had also rightly stated, that the same distress, more or ia)d. been -felt in other parts of the world. , .Prance, how iwer, he must remark, notwithstandinE, , those proceedings which h. 4. not escaped the retire of his Majesty's Ministers— natwithatanding the address of the Opposition. had becn carried pa the first day of the session, which had the eWect of turning _out the then Government—notwithstanding this, Prance, to those who had recently travelled in it, seemed to enjoy more agricultural prosperity at this moment than had been known ~b.tfore in that country. This w a a most extraordinary com ment on thr argument, that in that country agricultural distress could only be corrected by withdrawing a part of the lands from cultivatiou, • Yet to night the Noble Earl had not scrupled to argot.. that - in Eng,land the distress must be partly cured by re turning same 'Of the lands which had been drawn into cultivation ,tan st.tt., of nature. The distress which existed in one or two pins of Europe might be accounted for from local causes. If this couatry had been in the habit of consuming the grain of Po land , it was not extraordinary that egricultural distress should be experie a nced there for want of a m r :et fur that corn which shairiwl been accustomed to send to England. in the North of yratice the armies of observation hayin; been withdrawn, had destroyed that Market which had b , en previously enjoyed, and it was therefore not to be wondered at if some embarrass ment and distress should be experienced there. He would, however . ; say no more of the causes of the distress elsewhere, but would confine himself' to that which unhappily existed in this country.' lie was consoled to find that the Noble Earl opposite, thotigh somewhat at variance with his (the Marquis of Lanadowne's) argument—though he did not admit taxation to as the cause of the distress,-still agreed that it was desirable that be muclataxation should he remitted as posSible. Now he (the Marquis of Leasdowne) would content} that : it was impassible , thattaxation to The amount of ri0,000,0001. could he otter than injurious to the country, and therefore great effort% ought to be made to reduce it. The Noble Earl had alluded to several circumstances as constituting apparently an increase of na tional wealth. He had told them that in whatever way they travelled they must see large tracks of land had been brought into cultivation which were:not in cultivation before the war. This, he would remark, was one of the sources of the dis tress. The war had.airoulated the landed interest to such ex: ertions, that the amount of agricultural produce had at length become so great, that the country was incapable of absorbing it. Where the amount of produce had been.this incurred, he would say the, way to relieve agricultural distress like that'now complained of, was not by thrOaving the land out of cultivation, but by raising the market. Before he left this part of the .sub ject, he begged to oar a few remarks on the resources of the country with respect to Ireland. There the Noble Earl had told them, that the increase in the population appeared to he even greater than in England. But though the increase of population, of which the Noble Earl seemed to speak with sa tisfaction, was great, there was no increase in the power of ~onsumption in that country. Instead of consuming her produce as she ought, and as she would, if her burdens were lighter, she was obliged to pour it into England, and de luge a market already glutted with its own. On this ground he would contend that taxation ought to be remitted as far as was practicable a and this led him to speak of the plans now brought forward by the Government. Ile would first speak of that whi c h h a d f or it s object the legitimate reduction of the interestuf.theambhc debt, and pointed to an expedient which, in principle, was most proper to be resorted to. Hay. ing spoken of the legitimate reduction of the interest of the public debt, he would neat remark that another project had been mentioned at different times, to which he would only ;O vert, in order to reprobate it—the diminution of the interest by any but legitimate and lawful means ; thirdly, he would offer a few words on what had been said by the Noble Earl of the reductions which han taken place, and which lie seemed al most to think had been carried too far ; and, fourthly, he would speak on the subject of the application of the Sinking Fund. With respect to the first, the diniinution of the interest of the ikational Debt, the plan proceeded according to the plan of Mr. Pelham, and the Noble Earl thought the coarse he proposed to take, though not quite so equit a bl e as th a t o f Mr. Pelham had been, was still sound and just in principle. He could only express sat isiketion at finding the state of the country was such as to enable Ministers to have recourse to such a measure, and though it would expose some individuals to considerable hardships (Witheirt )vhich'Such..a_ measure could hardly ever be carried into effect}, lt to be yememberedtbat to such hardships those individuals had chosen •to r: e:spose themselves, and had, in cenidoteretion of their being sta exposed e ereceiVed a larger aate of interest for their money, than they would otherwise have enjoyed. At the same time he thought that it would have been more worthy the dignity of the country, and more worthy of the Exchequer, if Ministers had not put on all those who disapproved of the plan the necessity of signifying their dissent. This was in direct opposition to what had been done by Mr. Pelham. He could have wished the Noble Earl had not acted an aids manner; but disapproving of this, he only objected to the mode, and had nothing to say against the principle of the measure. With respect to reducing the interest of the debt, he was as ready as the Noble Earl could be to enter his most solemn protest against eacting this, but by such means as were recognized by existing laws. That the country might not by possibility be placed in such a situation that this prin ciple could not be adhered to, he declined asserting ; hut far was he from taking that desponding view of the state of the country ae to believe that they were now in that situation ; anti while they were not, on every principle of honour, on every principle of morality, on every principle of common honesty_ they were bound to reject any advantages that might be offered to them in connection with such a line of conduct. He hoped he should never live to seethe day when such a proposition would be submitted to Parliament. Should he be so unfortunate, he trusted that he should be •found, as he was sure the Noble Earl would, resisting, to the ,utmost of his power, the adoption of a measure so subversive of public credit, and so subversive of public justice. On the third subject to arhich he had proposed to address himself, the reductions which: had taken place, their Lordships would feel that they could not enter into the regular discussion of them in the absence of those papers which the Noble Earl proposed to lay before them. At present they could not know how far they had been carried; but without evincing a want of candour towards the Noble Earl, he could not avoid saying, that when he remembered how often it had been con tended that no further reductions could be accomplished, and recollected how individuals had been challenged to come for ward and point out where any thing of the kind could be ef fected ; alien lie remembered this, he hoped he should not be thought deficient in charity if he said that now when the Noble Earl had made -reductions which he thought it impos s ibl e t o make a year or two back, he (the Marquis of Lansdowne) still doubted whether more might not be done. The vigour anti re solution of Parliament might carry these reductions to a still greater extent, and considering these to be as necessary to re lieve the distress as an increased consumption, he entertained a hope that a further diminution of , expense might be calcu lated upon as one source of relief. lie now came to speak of the application of a Sinking Fund. On this subject it was de sirable that lie and the Noble Earl should distinctly understand one another, because in many debates the Noble Earl and his colleagues had spoken in a very equivocal and ambiguous manner on that subject. He wished to know whether it was meant by a Sinking Fund that they were to have a sur plus revenue? When lie said they had spoken ambiguously on -this subject, he had only to refer to the papers which had been laid on their table to prove the fact. When it had been found convenient to hold out to the public that we had a large S.inking Fund, then the 17,000,0001. called a Sinking Fund, had been brought forward as if that was working wonders in the way of reducing the National Debt, which was really doing nothing at all. When a different course was thought wise, then they were only told of the amount of this clear surplus revenue.— On this subject they ought now to came to a complete under standing. Had they an income that was not equal to the ex penditure of the country, a part of which tied up in a parti cular way was called the Sinking Fund, or had they, an in come exceeding the expenditure, with the surplus of which they might do what they pleased for the benefit of the country? He put this as a question, but his question was already de cided by the • conduct pursued by the Government. That which had been called a Sinking Fund had not hitherto been respected by Ministers. lie dui not now atop to inquire whe ther they could have effected what they had done in a better way ; but the Government had made large inroads on the Sinking Fund. Mr. Pitt's principle had been set aside; and the Sinking Fund had been drained on various occasions, in war or in peace ; in prosperity or i n ca l am ity. Il e would go back to 1813 to shew what had been done ; and that he would do on an authority that would hare great weight every where, but which would be especially respected by the Noble Earl—that of Mr. El uskisson. That Hight Honourable Gentleman, in 1813, considered the Sinking Fund principle to be broken in upon—he did all he could to oppose it—he invoked the apirit of Mr. Pitt to defend his favourite plan, but all in vain. The measure then brought forward was carried, and the Sinking Fund given up to the rapacity of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. But the Chancellor of the Exchequer had then said, ' though I take the Sinking Fund, and all the interest which has been accumulating upon it under various Acts of Parliament through the last twenty years, I do not abandon the principle, for I now revert to the original plan, by pro. viding for the total extinction of the debt in the next forty-five years." But even this had now been lost sight of, and the 5,000,0001. now possessed as a Sinking Fund was no more equal to the extinction of the debt in forty-five years than it was to.the Usk of defraying the current expenses of the year. He would: now inquire whether for the interest of the landholder, with whose welfare that of the whole community was so inti mately blended, and for the interest of the stockholder himself, .whose best security was to be found in the improved - state of the country, in what way the surplus revenue -might be best .appliel He then contended, after examining the opinions ex presated by Dr. Hamilton, that to keep up the machinery of a Shaking Fund, as had been done, where there was no surplus revenue, was preposterous, and could not impose on any one, much less on persons so acute as the Stockholders were known to. be. To call certain sums set apart a Sinking Fund, while still larger sums were borrowed : to furnish them, was so absurd that it put him in minduf the advice given by Lord Peter, in the Tact or A Tun, to his brother, to leave off eating bread, thought he might continue to eat as much as he pleased, so that he did but call it mutton. Ile next proceeded to shew that the Sinking Fund had not been the means of reducing the rate 'of interest, but a low rate of interest would invariably re salt from the low profits. While the Sinking Fund amounted to 17,000,0001., no considerations of the importance of pre serving public faith inviolate could save it from being touched, nor could its integrity lie defended. by reverence for the me mory of Mr. Pitt, but :haying prevailed on Parliament to •go with him in reducing it from 17,000,0001. to 5,000,0001., the Ministers now contended, that if they went one step further there would be an end at once to all public faith. When the Minister argued against him, that but little relief could be afforded by the remission of taxes, had he not a right to turn the tables on him, and shew how small the relief to be hoped from the effect of the Sinking Fund, applied as it was now intended that it should be applied ? Did the Noble Earl think that the operation - of a Sinking Fund of 5,000,0001. in the six }ears, which would make up with those which had al. ready elapsed .since the conclusion of the war, what was con sidered the average period of peace, would afford very great relief? Taeing the most favourable view of it, in the next six years it would only tak d 40,000,0001. from a debt of 800,000,0001. and it would relieve the'country from taxes to the amount of -1400,0001. out of 50,000,0001. 'this, too, would be brought about After Parliament had imposed, in his opinion most unadvisedly, ' new taxes to amount.of 3,000,0001. in 1017, in consequence of which it must Se&t, that in the year 18211., should the peace continue so - long, the country would still have to bear more_ taxes: than -it had paid in 1318. Under these circum stances he would ask their Lordships, ifthey thought Parlia ment would do its duty in taking-off taxes but to the amount of 1400,0001. in the next six years, from a total of 50,000,0001. Ile conceived that the remission of four or five millions in taxes would tend more effxtuaily to relieve the coun try than it could be relieved by the proposed diminu tion of - debt. The effect would be twofold ; as while it • lightened the burdens of those who were now most depres sed, it would increase consumption. There was no saying to what extent the consumption of the country might be increased by such means. An impulse would be given to consumption, which, in a very few years, by augmenting the produce of in , direct taxation, would probably . give a larger surplus re venue than was at present contemplated by Ministers, and ' leave them more at liberty to devote the whole of any future excess of ine; , the to the extinction of debt. The proposed loan to parishes he could not approve. This, he thought, would produce no good effect, but on the contrary would be likely to throw on those unfortunate parishes which availed themselves:of the proffered aid, the difficulties with which the Government had had to contend. It might be good to increase the circulation so far as to bring it up to its natural level, below which he con sidered it to have fallen, but the circulation extended beyond its natural limits must lead to consequences the most disastrous, as it would force the gold out of the country, and this must produce a re-action, which' would send it back again, but under circumstances of great affliction and privation. It was the du! y of Parliament to lean leniently towards the people, remember ing how severe were the burdens which they had to bear in conse quence of the recent alteration of the currency. Ile, however, did not condemn that measure. The ,country. was in such a state that he considered that calamitous operation to have become necessary. The longer it was deferred the more se verely it must have been felt, and a metallic currency . having been restored, he was decidedly of opinion that on no ac count ought the standard of_ value again to be altered. lie wished to give the public creditor every protection to which he was entitled, but the distresS of the country, and especially that of the agricultural classes, demanded relief by a less pain ful mode than that of sending the land out of cultivation ; this could only be supplied by increased consumption, and in creased consumption could only be produced by remission of taxation: Lord KING: adverted to the embodyin; in the resolutions for the county of Surrey the opinion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with respect to the currency. and .obsetved, that in some similar resolutions at Surrey or elsewhere; it' Wonld lie equally curious to titled embodied the opinimis of the i~etlaYi Earl who'olien - ed the debate, namely, that taxa tion was in no degree the cause of the present public dis tress—that the seine distress prevailed in France and.Hol,. land, and that the best mode of redittiiiig our distress was to reduce the rate of interest by the addition of five millions to our fund for the discharge of the public debt.—(A laugh, and hear, hear !)—llitt what occasi o n h a d th e Noble Earl to go to France or - Holland for equal installers of public distress to those which prevailed in England, when he could find so many strooget instances of that nature, namely, where t rapacity of the Government was the cause of the distress of the peo.ule?—(Hear,-hear!)—But this would not answ e r the Noble Earl's object, as it svould be going too far. Here the Noble Earl entered into a comparison between the produce of the old and the new !ands umployt ti in agricoltute, oh , serving that the old formerly afforded considerable 'profit to the cultivator, which he could not now derive front it, while the new lands niti=t be cultivated at a certain loss. The Noble Earl had endeavoured to maintain taxation had no effect upon the agriculturiFt ; hut how could this doctrine be held by any one who considered the operation of the excise upon leather, soap, eindles, and other articles ch were used by time farmers ? ,llectirring to the three priiiciples Mild - down lay the Noble Earl, it really appeared surprising that the Noble Lord should maintain, Ist, That taxation teas not the cause of the agricultural distress: 2dly, That the repeal of taxation could afford the agrictilturists no relief:- and. 'that the rednetion of interest which would he produced by the proposed application of hue millions would he the hest mode of relieving them. lint the language at present used by the Noble Eat I was pretty moch•thr same sort as that which the House lied heard from the Noble Eat! and his cod leagues for several years ?tack—Somewhat altered in its shape, or varied in its colouring, by tluise pompous pretensions and transient absurdities which could not easily lie forgotten ; such, fur instance, as that a superabundant population was the cause of our feeling a superabundance of food, or that superabundant food produced superabundant popula tion. For these were the preposterous propositions oeca siorally promulgated by Ministers themselves, and uni formly maintained for some years by all their journalists and pamphleteers. But what was the cure for superabundant • population ? Why, that many of them had been at the ex-. pence of the state—,atan expence, indeed, greater than would furnish them with emplovment at home, sent hoot their ne • .• „..- rive country to a foreign soil, thus transporting the snort.- abundant people svho would serve to consume the super abundant food. Again, the people were said to be idle—but whence came their idleness ? So much was taken from the industrious poor to maintain the Government, that enough did not remain to provide for the adequate remuneration of the labour of the peOple.--(Hear, hear !)—Let the people have due employment red wages, and nothing, he was fully assured, would ever be hearut of their idleness.—(Hear, hear, hear!)—The Noble Earl had observed that there was too much capital in the country, and therefore he supposed the Noble Earl proposed, by his plan, to send that capital out of the country, as he hal already sent so much of its popula tion ;—but the Noble Earl was of the modern school of poli tical economy. He was surprised, however, to hear the Noble Earl tell their Lordships that they should rely upon Nature and Providence. What! to hear Noble Lords talk of such reliance, who for =2O years haul looked to it in vain, and who now urged t hat taxation Was no cause of the agricultural distress, qtlthough such taxation was notoriously as lirejtidi ehl to agriculture ; as a bad,c+oil or a bad climate.—(Hear, hutv, hear!).-On a late propnsirtion elsewhere for the reduc tion of the expense of the several eiifablishments, it was most satisfactorily demonstrated by figures, ; nit noless than five tnillious might be struck off front the Army, the Navy, and the Ordnance. So that here an addition might be made to the five millions of surplus revenue mentioned by the 'Mini sters, the sun; of five millions more, and here then was an opportunity of rendering solid service to the country. But to this proposition of service, it was urged that five millions should be added to the Sicking Fund for the redemption of the public debt, although, to the knowledge of the present Ministers themselves, the Sinking Fund was an utterly un productive and preposterous scheme. Still Ministers would go on in it, and their perseverance implied this langnage— “ We have already taxed you a great dual upon the plea of paying this public debt, and if you will give us loft time, we shall tax you more.”—(A laugh, and hear, hear!). LORD ELLENBOROUGH could not attribute the exist ing distress to an excess of cultivation, as that had rather di minished than increased Within the last few years. In his opinion it was the great excess of produce last year, combined with the effect of the change in the currency. that had created the fall in price, to which the distress was owing. Ile agreed with the Noble Marquis near hints (the Marquis of Lansdowne) that the great taxation under which the country laboured contt Witted to the ilistress of the farmer as a grower; but he could not agree with him that the reduction of five millions of taxes would give any sensible relief to the farmer. To elu cidate this, he would suppose that sum to be applied as a di rect bounty on productions. If I hey calculated each person to consume one quarter of wheat a-year, that would be a bounty equal to ss. a quarter upon wheat ; and it was a question, whether the reduction of 54. upon each person would be ;t sufficieut relief to the farmer. This was giving him the full t'enefit of the fire millions ;."lor, if it was taken Off in taxes, the operation of relief would he so long in reaching the quar ter it was intended to affect. that the benefit would be almost lost. There had, be believed, been some scheme for lending the farmer money till prices should cone round again ; but that appeared to . bave totally failed. Tine present was a case of peculiar difficulty and distress,—of a nature not only to af fect the interests of the agriculturist, hut actually to destroy the independence of his mind, and give it a direction hostile to Government. It had already settled into dissatisfaction, and under the particular circumstances, ,he should be dispo sed to concur in some violent measure to put an end to the distress. Opportunities would offer for discussing the (ies ! tion, and he hoped all the energies of their Lordships' under ' standings would be directed to its consideration.—(h ear .) The Duke of BUCKINGHAM disclaimed any intelition of entering into those depths in political economy in which hi s predecessors in the debate had wandered. He Mnst, how ever, declare his dissent from those who attributed to the operation of taxation the d.stressed state of the agricultural interests. That they were in a state of distress, it did tint need any one at that time of day to tell them. But was this the first time that particular interests of the country had been in a sutTering condition arising front the circumstances of the times ?—(Hear, hear')---Did they not all recollect the distresses of the manufacturers and commercial interests a few years ago, and what was now the state they were in The commercial prosperity was of a most gratifying descrip tion in its nature and extent ; and as to the mdnufaauring classes, they were now employed at the highest rate of wages of the highest times. As to the causes of agrictiltnral dis tress, they were plainly owing to the manner in which per sons had been tempted to bring land into cultivation, the continuance of which could only be justified by a conti, nuance of that high price of wheat which induced their cultivation.— (Hear, bear !) Instead, however, of their cultivation being discontinued, they had been taken at long leases, and now plunged the owners of them into that state of distress which was the subject of com plaint. The Poor Laws also, it should he remembered, hung as a burden round the neck of the landholders which oppressed them. These. la'sva should be restored to what they were formerly, and the poor should no longer be treated as aounitains on the landholder. lie hoped the Gentleman, wit b whoa) he was not personally acquainted, who had introduced this subject to the consideration of Parlia ment last year, would not drop his intention of pressing it still farther. If, asi the Noble Marquis (Landsowne) said, taxation were the cause of the distress, it would be felt equally in the commercial and other interests of the country as well as agriculture-.--(Hear, hear, hear !)—lt was said by those who took that erroneous view of the case, that the Ex cise duties upon soap, salt, tallow, &c. fell with peculiar weight upon the f.:;..ner, particularly affecting the price.of the produce of the land. Now, if it were true that the weight of the tax affected the constimption, that which paid the highest tax would he least used, and vice versa. Bus: it would be found that the contrary was the case, and that, as in the in stance of salt and wrought iron, that which paid the best tax was the least used. The price of consumption had not yet reached the price of production, and until this was the case, no material relief -would be felt by the agriculturist. But with regard to the existing agricultural distresses, he had no hesitation in saying that taxation had no effect whatever. To illustrate this, he would suppose the case of a farm of 400 acres, at two guineas an acre, as to the amount of produce. He supposed 200 acres to be laid out ;Is grass land, 134 acres as spring vegetables, and the remaining 66 acres wheat land. These tits act es would produce 198 ousters, which, valued at 31. a quarter, would amount to .5941. With a farm thus pro ductive, supposing the farmer's family to Consist of himself, -wife, one woman servant, and three men, they would coa stline fifteen quarters of malt, the tax on which amounted to 121. 15s. Making a fair calculation of the quantity of articles of every other description which such a tamily would con some, it would he found that the total amount of taxes paid to the Crown was 331. 4s. Of the amount of indirect taxes, which depended on the price of labour, it was not so easy to get at, but the best war would be to tape all the taxes which might be considered to fall nu land, and throw them back to the farmer. By the abolition of every tax which was paid by the farmer to the Crown, he would only acquire an addition of four shillings price to the quarterof wheat, and could this he considered an adequate relief? The only remedy was for the great landholder to do as IN; manufacturers had done .some years ago; to prevent the farmer from lulling, by mak ing commaticause with him.—(Hear, hear !)—The concluding Sentence of the Noble Duke was inaudible. Lord DACKI4: said, he did not intend to go at length iota the subject, but(l imit lie rose merely to express the doubts he entertained on,some points very gene' ally•adinitted, but the admission ofwhich, if the opinion he had formed of them were Correct, would create great delusion, and eventually much more mischief mail any which now existed. Every Noble Lord who had treated the subject that night had considered the tpiestion as if an increase of the price of a.tricultoral 1.1 duce might lie infected, and as if the distress would therefore be but temporary. Ile by DO means understood how that conclusion had been arrived at. The Noble Earl opposite be gan his luminous exposition by stating, that there bad been a great increase of population; which statement, however, Ire immediately followed up by another, that there was a si perahundance of food in the country. The increase of the po• iodation from 1801 to the present time, the Noble Earl tom stated to he four millions. He (Lord Daerr) would estimate the increase from 1791 to 1801 at one million. This would make a total increase since 1791 ot five millions in the Paul l:aims. Now, really, he could not miderstand how any well iiiforined person could conceive, that the increase since 1791, rut the corn produced in the country, had been more than ade quate to the increase in the population. Undoubtedly, there had been numerous inclosures of late years, but in many of them the effect had been to convert arable load into ilaSl Comparing the present period with 1791, he could see no reason why the prices at present should he so far higher than at that period. Tittle most be some relative price which every article would naturally bear with reference to others. That natmad price must depend urn the quantity of circuits thigniedium afloat, and the quantity of the article represent ed by it—directly as the former, inversely as the latter. Now, he was not aware that there was a great numerical did*, name in the circulating medium now from the year 1791. In 1791 there were about thirty millions of guineas, and about eight millions of bank paper in circulation. At present there were twenty millions of batik notes, and seem) or eight millions of sovereigns, in circuLttion, besides the cottutry bank paper, the amount of which he could not exactly ascertain; uu.the whole, he had nun reason to believe that there was much dif ference between the amount of circulating medium it) circu lation in 1821, and the amount at present. It was tint fair, however, to add, that he was unable to calculate the power of the circulating medium at present, as it depended not on ly on the numerical amount, but on the velotity of its opera tion, multiiilied into one another. ASSU tiling. that the velocity was infinitely greater than in 1791, still it twist be considered that. it had to produce an infinitely greater effect since the mass of commodities on which it was to operate was so much larger. Not believing that more rood was produced at present than was necessary to meet the increase of population, he thought it was to mislead the country to hold out any expectation of future high prices. Ile believed the present prices were not far from being the fair, correct, natural prices. If he vatted a confirmation of this opinion, lie could find it in the fact that the price of several articles, the 1-reduce or which had not increased, such as the under wood of copses, skins, &c. had varied with the price of corn, and tallied with the 'eduction of the circulating medium. A great deal of the existing evil lie attributed to Parliament having disregarded the advice of his Noble Friend,• and voted that a pound note and a shilling were equivalent to a guinea. In that absurdity the country acquiesced; ttk. debt increased, and on relurnirg to cash payments they found themselves with 30 millions more taxa. thin than in 1791. He was very far from recommending any such fraudulent measure as to recur to an artificial cola tioon.—The only way was to meet our dilliculties, and to look them in the face, and not to excite hopes in the agriculturist which . must c and in disappointment. He could not concur with th e Noble Duke in considering the agricultural interest to be at present precisely in the satire condition as the com mercial and manufacturing interests fotrinetly Art re. Nor would be advance tine shilling to the fortiori- in the way of loan; for this reason :—the nianufacto ler could at pleasure raise the price of his commodity He suspending the produc tion of it ; and the maintenance of his machinery cost hum nothing: not so the farmer, he must go on; a n d he was bound by the poor laws, as well as by humanity and benevolence, to maintai o any population that might be thrown on him.— For another reason, lie thought the VI csent the natural prices; because, although the latter was an abundant harvest in point of quantity, be sits informed that the deficiency of quality so reduced the quantity of the meal, that it was no more than au average crop. If in all the southern parts of the kingdom the cross had been of a good quality, the average price of the best wheat would probably nut have exceeded at this moment 4s. a bushel. In his opinion, no relief cooild be afforded to the agriculturist but by reducing lois expenditure. He did not mean to say that taxation must necessarily dimi nish the price of corn. Taxation might press so heavily on the fanner as to force him prematurely to market ; but then the public would not benefit ; for the. corn would fall into the hands of some speculator, who would raise the general pt ice. But although taxation did not lower the price of corn, it pre cluded the agriculturist from as - ailing himself of cheap labour in its production. It was necessary to him, eitlier that the price of corn should be increased or the price of labour diminished. , He did not Mean to follow the Noble Duke (of Bllchingllam) in Ike calculations into which he had entered. But of this he could assure the Noble Duke and their Lordsh'ps, that ,the pressure of the -taxes on Salt, Soap; Leather, and candles, 'Amounted to 35.6 d. per acre on arable land.—(Hear.)—This he was ready to prove at any time to any gentleman who applied to him. Now if this additional burden of 3c. 6(1. was reduced, it would afford considerable relief to the occupiers of land.— His Lordship,. in ;Alluding to the taxes upon Salt, Leather, &c. which- might, and which, in his opinion, sought to he reduced, observed, that he had been anticipated by the speech of the Noble Lord u nder him, (Lord Lansolown,) speech which plated bef o r e 'the House such a view of the situation of the country as would not be easily effaced front the minds of their Lordships.—(Hear, hear.)—After such a speech, he did not feel himself at liberty to trespass further upon the attention of the House thanao caution them against the idea that increased prices were the only remedy for taxa tion. The only remedies to which the agriculturist load to look for relief were, a reduction of taxation and a diminution iu the cost of production. - The Duke of MUCKINGHANI shot-fly explained. The Earl of HARROWBY next addressed their Lordships, but in so low a-toue as to be inaudible below the iktr for the greatei part of his speech. His Lordship was understood to con tend, that agreat portion of the distresses of the agriculturists rose from abundant harvests and from the imports of wheat from Ireland. There was also another greirt pressing cause of distress to the agricultut ists,-he meant the reduction of paper ,circulation of the country bomb. In 1815, the circulation of country paper was 15,000,0001.; in 1816, it was 15,500,0001. ; in 1817, it was 16,000,0001. i in 1619, it was 1i;,500,0001... but in 1820 it had fallen, to 11,000,0001., and last year it was no more than 7,000,0001. Adding this to the restricted issues of the Bank of England, would, their Lordships must per ceive, be more than sufficient to reduce the farmer to his pre sent standard. Besides, there was another great cause of distress. The farmer did not in the hour of prosperity econo mise as he might have done--4e indulged during the war in a wasteful and thoughtless expenditure, witliput einigidering that the day of reckoning and sif retribution must come, and that a period must be put to those high prices and ready mar• kets which a state of warfare had necessarily opened to him. l'he Noble Lord next proceeded to defend the Sinking Fund, and contended that any attempt to reduce or do away with that great bulwark of public security, would only tend to weaken, if not altogether destroy, public confidence and pub lic credit. i Lord REDESDALE thought it was . clearly proved that the taxes fell heavier on the farmer than on any other class.-- The Noble and Learned Lord contended, that the glut in the markets of agricultural produce, was not the consequence O f over production ; but it arose Irmo. the necessity which com pelled the farmer to bring his produce into the market with out the usual delay. He was convinced that the present dis tress arose from causes of a temporary nature, and that the natural course of things would remove them. Ile thought the case of the farmer to be similar to that of the person who being ill, called in a number of doctors, who all fell to quar relling about the remedies to b e appli e d f or hi s cure. At last their words got so high, that the patient ordered his servant to turn thetwall out of doors, and the doctors being gone, he very soon recovered. • • The Resolutions were then agreed to, and the House ad journed at .ELEVEN O'CLOCK. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hours, and Gnd' inu only thirty-five Members present, adjourned the House to this day. POLITICS. The following eloquent eulogium on this im portant, indeed essential Science, is extracted from " Reflections on the Nature and tendency of the present Spirit of the Times," written by the Rev. G roam: BUIIGES: " POLITICS must not. be scorned. It is a high and holy part of Ethics, and, in its influential consequences, is second only to religion. 'Much of man's moral c on d uc t w ill be found to depend on the form of government under which he lives, on the laws he is called upon to observe, on the duties he is expected to fulid, and on the rights he is permitted to enjoy. It is not politics, but what people are accustomed to call by that staled name ; what they understand by the terns in its idle or abused sense, and what designing men take in any sense that serves their selfish, or ambitious, or unjust purposes, that is worth less as-a science. But the true policy of a State, what is it but a knowledge and adaptation of the best laws for its government, and of the best means for the perfection and conservation of those laws ; what is it but an endeavour to assi milate the power and dignity of the Sovereign with the security and liberty of the subject, and so tq assimilate them, that any prerogative stretched too far on the one side shall be met and modified by some opposing right on the other ; any right too vehemently insisted upon by the people, shall find its best refutation in some correspondent and balancing duty.— What, in short, is politics, stript of its vulgar trappings, its senile debasements, but an illus tration and enforcement of the welfare, spring ing from the virtue of man in all his capacities, civil, social, and domestic ? The study of poli tics is coeval with the exercise of reason and jus tice: It is employed upon our .well-being, founded upon our well-doing. It does not for get our rights, but it grounds them upon our duties; and these unperformed will render those nugatory. Human duties are of prime impor tance, and the aim and perfection of politics are, as far as possible, to secure their performance. This science takes in the conduct of man, there fore, in every stage of his being. It fixes him down, and all his passions, to the golden rule that must obtain in ages and nations to the.end of time, of ' doing unto others as he would others should do unto him.' It compels him to see his interest in theirs, his comfort in theirs, and to trace up his own miseries to the perverted source of those sufferings he inflicts upon his fellow -creatures. Politics works upon even sa vage minds, and reduces the chaos of ungoverned appetites to a moral order and a civilized form. It draws, him from his rudeness, and contem platina 'this elaborate scheme of mighty man,' fills the naked parchment with 'the lines of Roman greatness,' nourishing him up, by good and wholesome laws, to restraints that correct his selfishness, and to actions that ennoble his soul. It gives him the full value of his own virtue and industry, but forbids him to touch an atom of the possessions resulting from the virtue and industry of others.. It provides (no easy matter) for multifarious wants, and crimes, a nd sufferings strangely commixed and conflicting with each other. It takes in at one large and mer ciful view, all the follies, and weaknesses, and viciousness of our common nature, and so legislates against them as, with the least evil possible to the criminal, to do the greatest good possible - to the community ; upon Heaven's own eternal justice, that the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, nor the father the iniquity of the son.' In fine, a wise and righteous polity will seat itself on the right hand of religion and virtue; will do nothing against their interest, but, despising glory and greatness founded ou an illusive good, will lead man by paths that make for his temporal happi ness) so far as it can b e consu lt e d i n t hi s uncer tain world, to that happiness which, his earthly duties performed, is laid up for him in another and a better." On Monday morning, between six and seve:l, the roof of the 'F hatched Cottage, late the re,i deuce of the Hon. Mr. STANHOPE, near Fulham, was discovered to be on fire, and in less than two hours the whole edifice was burned to the ground. A great deal of the property was res cued from the flames, and, among other matters, part of the library and furniture of Mr. WATTS let gentleman well known in the literary world), who had just taken a lease of the house for a term of years. A. good many valuables, how ver, and books, are said to have been destroyed. HARE SKlNs.—Dumfries has been long cele brated as the great mart for hare skins, and we are happy to state that the trade in this article appears to be reviving. Last year, while the quantity brought to market Was very inconsider able, the price was so low as 12s. per dozen; but this year the price started to 16s. and 175., and, in the course of the week, upwards of forty-eight thousand skins were disposed of ; six thousand of which were in the hands of one individual. Perhaps, however, the open winter has had some effect in improving the quality of the skins.- - D umfries Paper.)