The Sun. — London, England, 1853-07-01 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 1, 1853, were regarded with all the consideration they deserved. Well, Mr. Macaulay then said— .' The plan suggested by the right hon. gentleman the member for Montgomeryshire is, I think, the very worst that I have ever heard. He would have directors nominated every four years by the Crown. Is it not plain that these directors would always be appointed from among the sup porters of the Ministry for the time being—that their situations would depend on the permanence of that Ministry—that there fore all their power and patronage would be employed for the purpose of propping that Ministry, and, in case of a change, for the purpose of molesting those who might suc ceed to power—that they would be subservient while their friends were in, and factious when their friends were out ? How would Lord Grey's Ministry have been situated if the whole body of directors had been nominated by the Duke of Wellington in 1830 ? I mean no imputa tion on the Duke of Wellington. If the present Ministers bad to nominate directors for four years, they would, I have no doubt, nominate men who would give no small trouble to the Duke of Wellington if he were to return to office. What we want is a body independent of the Government, and no more than independent ; not a tool of the Treasury, not a tool of the opposition. No new plan which I have heard pro posed would give us such a body. The company, strange as its constitution may be, is such a body." (Cheers.) Well, sir, it is unnecessary for me to remind the house of the particular arrangements by which the num bers of the Court of Directors are to be reduced. I advert to it of course with reluctance from the presence of the gentlemen who are members of that body, but the freedom of discussion warrants the allusion. The Court of Directors consists of 30 members. They are to meet and select from their body 15 to be directors of the company. At first there was an idea that the President of the Board of Con trol had dealt hardly with the Court of Directors. It was considered a device on his part of so ruthless a character that there was some public sense of indignation expressed towards her Majesty's Ministers on that score; but after considering this clause I entirely acquit her Majesty's Min isters of this imputation. I am sure the original idea of this clause must have been formed in Leadenhall-street. (Hear.) I know there is a very valuable body of papers there—they have been examined by a friend of mine—in the records of the Court of Directors, relating to a subject in which the Indian Government greatly distinguished them selves, and that was putting down the system of Thuggee. (Hear, and a laugh.) Now, a Thug is a person of very gentlemanlike manners, even of fascinating manners (a laugh);—he courts your acquaintance, dines with you, drinks with you, smokes with you ;. not only does he share your pastimes, but even your pursuits ; whatever you wish done he is always ready to fulfil it ; he is the companion of your life, and is possibly a member of the same direction and of the same joint-stock company ; but the very moment when he has gained your confidence, when yon are repos ing, as it were, on the bosom of friendship, the mission of the Thug is fulfilled, and you cease to exist. (Laughter.) I confess I shall be curious to see who are the fifteen Thugs. (Laughter.) I want to know who will be the first victim. Sometimes I fear it may be the venerable member for London. (A. laugh.) I will not pursue this hypothetical anticipation, but when we meet next session I think there will be a th rill of curiosity and horror when certain hon. gentlemen who are members of the first new Court of Di rectors enter this house. (A laugh.) And practically what what will you gain by this process ? You are going to have 15 gentlemen of the old Court, to whom the Crown, in the first instance, has permission to add three and ultimately six. Now, the object is to secure a certain superiority of knowledge of India and its necessities. Do you gain that ? I looked this afternoon over the list of East India Direc tors. I took the 24 whose names are down, and I observed the majority of them were gentlemen who had local and official experience of India. More than one-half of the pre sent directors are men who have been eminent as lawyers, as my hon. friend the member for Honiton, or men who have had great experience in either the military or civil service of the company ; so that at present, with this ex tremely criticised Court of Directors, you have a mass of Indian experience and knowledge represented by more than one-half of the members of the Court. But if the arrange ment contemplated by h er M a j es t y ' s Ministers is co mpleted, you will only secure one-third of th e members who possess that knowledg e an d i n f ormat i on. It is perfectly obvious, therefore, when the change you have projected takes place, none of the 12 members of the compan y will ever be elected with an y regar d to their Indian experience; they will always be men of Lombard -street—the directors of insurance societies ; and remember, when a city director is wanted, you go on 'Change to find him • there will be no obligation on th e proprietors to elect a' man of Indian experience ; and the result of the change, therefore, will be, as I have said, that instead of one -half or more than one half of the directors being men of Indian experience, you will have under this new-fangled scheme only one-third. How will this act ? Try it with the three new members nominated by the Crown. For some time it may remain. Probably the 15 best lives will remain in office, and you are to have three men of consummate Indian experience added to the Government. What do you gain by that ? At this moment you have three, and more than three, equal to any men probably the Government; with the greatest anxiety and the most praiseworthy motives which I give them credit f or in this respect, could possibly select. I might take my hon. friend the member for Honiton, twice chairman, and a great authority in this house. tier Ma jesty's Ministers cannot suppose they will be able to select a mon3 experienced man in Indian matters than my hon. friend. Is it probable you will get a better man than Sir R. Jenkins, or a man of more Eastern experience than Sir H. Willock? 4(Hear.) Therefore, I say, by the very plan you ar e n ow pursuing, if you wish to make it a council of Indian experience, you are doing that which is most fatal to anything pretending to be a council—losing the im portant element of independence. (Hear, hear.) The two great elements of an Indian Council, whatever form it may take, whether a Court of Directors or a Council, are inde pendence and the knowledge of the members, and you can only obtain them by making the members permanent. For those reasons, were there no others, if I were to choose be tween the existing system and that curious ono proposed by her Majesty's Ministers, I would really prefer the ex isting one. (Hear, bear.) The existing system gives an independence whic h is the first element in such a body, and it secures apparently a great mass of Indian know ledge, probably at least half, if not more, of men of as great experience . ) as the Crown could probably obtain. That is the great objection which I have to this plan of the home government. It appears to me to possess all the evils of the old system and none of its advantages. (Hear, hear.) I must remit many objections to the prin ciple of the Lill, because I feel time is precious, and I am bound to answer the defence set up to this bill by those who have preceded me. There is one curious feature of this debate,—not a single member has risen on either side of the house to defend the bill of her Majesty's Ministers except gentlemen in office—(hear, hear) —and what is the worth of their defence I will proceed to ascertain. Re member this, there are particular gentlemen who will not vote for the amendment ; but there is not one of those who spoke and opposed the amendment who did not tell you at 'She same time he entirely disapproved of the bill. (Hear, hear.) That is a very remarkable circumstance. The honourable baronet the member for the University of Oxford is not going to support the amendment. He very rarely does support any amendment of ours. (A laugh.) But he looks upon the 'bill with a spirit of devout re probation ; and says he never saw a bill of which he more entirely disapproved, and that he votes for the second reading in order that in committee he may move to strike out all the principal clauses of it. (Hear, and a laugh.) Then there is the hon. member for Hun tingdon—and I always regret to differ from him ; he is not going to support the amendment ; but he says he very much disapproves of the bill. Then the hon. member for Rochester, a great Indian authority—he seemed inclined to support the amendment, but is not going to vote for it ; but he entirely disapproves of the bill. (Hear, hear.) Then there is my right hon. friend the member for Stam ford ; he is a very staunch opponent of the amendment ; hut when he goes into committee he shall feel it is duty to show you that the bill is one of the most pernicious pieces of legislation that could be conceived. The cata logue is much longer, but I cannot proceed through such a list, because I have men of mark before me to whom 1 must proceed. I said no hon. member had defended the bill except those who were in office ; but there was one right hon. gentleman who is not, but who ought to have been in office, who defended it—he spoke not of his col leagues, but of his clients—(hear, hear)—but I appeal to the house, who listened to him with that attention which he always commands. whether they ever heard a more agreeable speech or a more feeble defence. He laid it down that the real government of India was in the Go vernor-General ; he said he had seen how the home go vernment worked in E ng l an d ; and, as a member of the Council, he had seen how it had worked in Calcutta ; and he told us that four important measures were passed by the Council of I n di a when he was at Calcutta, none of which . were sug ges t ed, and some of which were after wards disapproved by the Court of Directors ; but still they were passed ; th ose measures were—the measure for native education, th e measu r e for altering the transit duties, the measure for unlicensed ri mea sure for a uniform coin age ; and the ri ght and the ght hon. gentleman argued from this that there w as no su b s tantial l power in the Court of Directors. I think I have t he house there is reason to believe there is very substaZita power in that Court. (Hear, hear.) I should like to have obtained from the right hon. gentleman, in the moment of that unguar ded frankness, when he gave us all the secrets o f the syst e m, some information from him as to whose fault it may be attributed that we have not a code for India. (Hear , hear.) Remember, the right hon. gentleman is peculiarly connected with that subject ; for in the y ear 1833 the right hon. gentleman said, " I believe no country ever stood so much in need of a code of laws as India, and I believe there never was a country in which that want might be so readily . supplied." I do not tell you that it is my opinion. I think that was a very bold assertion of the right honourable gentleman, though it was received with loud and enthusiastic cheering ; but 20 years have elapsed; that code has not yet passed, and I want to know what prevented it. Was it the Coun cil of India or the Court of Directors? (Hear.) But the right hon. gentleman proceeded further. He said " Nei ther the Court of Directors nor the Board of Control have anything whatever to do but to choose the Governor-Ge neral." If the only business of this elaborate and compli cated home government is to select a Governor-General, then I maintain that we want no such home government — neither Board'of Control nor Board of Directors. To se lect the Governor-General is a function which the First Minister of the Crown may most fitly and most efficiently Perform of himself, and for himself. The First Minis t e r of the Crown is the best judge of the man who should be Go vernor-General of India, or he is himself not fit to be the First Minister of the Cr'own, because an accurate know :l(.lg of character is the chief quality for a First Minister over eti.irwwn' and that is the quality which should preside e zelection of a Governor-General of India. This t r o f r i Le m iz e o n ' rn t hen, of the right hon. member tells against the and gov e rnment of India altogether, both Board of Con trolthis late hour to :Directors. It is unnecessary for me at right hon. gentleZnil. on other topics in the speech of the The right hon. gentleman in that speech demonstrated man ' Points which no one questions, and illustrated many thi n ;which are not at all obscure— (hear)—he did this, indeed, T or soearraing a manner, that I could have listened to him in a fine conversa tional vein that would have chee redse se eme d to table, or ex hil ire t e d a dinner ; but, a s it avoided the real question at issue to me, he carefully eras et on these points where he made admissions, fatal alike t o the Board of Directors andpetehßoofarl:! co nce i v e, C o ntrol . I will now advert to the s ; and, from exceed him ability the right hon. gentleman, for no one in in ability, but not less able than he tion in the State, of more importance in di scussion—the peer right hon. member for Carlisle. That speech consisted of one of the most complete panegyrics of the existi ng ver nment of India that I ever listened to read. Not in all the p am p hlets on the subject,— e g r t in all the histories not in all the pamphlets that have taken the shape of history, and which have so abounded of late—not in all the compositions, of ev ery size and form, which, during the last three or four months, have been showered into the studies of every member of Parliament--not in any of these productions h av e I read a more unqualified panegyric of the East India Company, its Boards of Control, of Directors, an d o f p ro , *ORM than that which NI from tin lips of the right hon. baronet. (Hear, hear.) It appeared to me that rheto- - rical inconsistency *never arrived at a more culminating point than at the dose of the right hon. baronet's speech, when the right *hon. gentleman produced on every mind the effect of a rapid rider who finds himself, after a furious, a blind career, on the verge of an abyss, not perceived by him until that very moment ; for the result to which the speech of the right hon. baronet must needs have brought him was dearly the conviction that he ought to be the first man to vote against his own bill. (Hear, hear.) The Home Government, the right hon. baronet insisted, was a perfect Government, and therefore he was prepared to alter it. (Hear, hear.) " The army of India is an heroic army," said the right hon. gentleman ; " its Pollocks, its generals, its Notts, are heroes —are men of whom any nation may be proud, and therefore," concluded the right hon. hart., " we will pass a bill which, for the first time, will degrade these heroes, and make them subordinate to a Treasury officer." (Oh, oh !) Oh, oh ! Do hon. gentlemen mean to say they have not read the clause in the bill which makes the Pollocks and the Notts of the Indian army subordinate to the Treasury-office ? If hon. gentlemen mean this, they admit they are going to vote for a bill they have not read. (Hear, hear.) This is not all : the right hon. baronet acknowledges that the state of the Indian finance is not satisfactory, and he cannot deny that there is a debt, a great debt, though he contends it is not so great as Indian reformers represent it to be. The right hon. baronet, however, says the bill will settle all that, for that we shall have, in future, an Indian budget, an Indian financial statement. It must, doubtless, be very gratifying to the ho use thus to be promised, for the ensu ing year, an Indian statement from one who, being now President of the Board of Control, has been also Chancellor of the Exchequer, and who will thus, of course, combine in his statement all the magnificent imagery incidental to the one capacity with the perspicuity of financial detail appurtenant to the other—(laughter)—but still there remains the question how far Parliament will be satis fied with a yearly Indian Ways and Means which does not give them control over a single shilling of those ways and means. (Hear, hear.) Nothing, I appre hend, can be more dreary in itself than a budget ; the only thing that reconciles us to its dreariness is the natural anxiety to know what 'we are going to receive and what we are going to pay with it. But of this promised Indian budget we are to receive not a sixpence, and we are not to have the smallest control over its expenditure. The power of a Government to retain a house is certainly won derful; but I think the house-collecting or the house retaining powers of Government will he sorely taxed to collect or to keep a house on the night when the Indian b ( L u a d u g g e b t t o e f r t . e r g e t h t m h o e n gentleman.. briefly) the is w ari n a l i i i n m g e n t s which have been used against delay. employed against delay are The first arguments enose urged on the ground of authority. Now, arguments drawn from authority, how ever efficacious they may be up to a certain point, are of a limited character. We all of us acknowledge the force of authority, and are daily influenced by it, but we can not bow to mere authority against the conviction of our reason. The kart authority that was brought forward against us is Wet of the present Governor-General of India, to contend agrainst which is an Homeric contest, in which one has to en.counter a cloud. We cannot struggle against the authority of Lord Dalhousie, for we know not the lan guage in w l3 4ch it is couched, nor the precise conclusions which it rekommends. It used to be held very nnparlia mentarY, not to say unconstitutional, for a government to appeal tia state papers which are not within the public cognizance of Parliament, but, waiving that particular point, I protest against authority such as that put forth in the name of Lord Dalhousie being set up in this house, when not a member of the house, except those who rely 'upon it, knows what the language of Lord Dalhousie's opinion is, what are the grounds on which it is based, or what are the precise conclusions at which it arrives. Such authority, I repeat, is a cloud. Another Governor-General of India has been brought forward as an authority for im mediate legislation---Lord Ellenborough. The authority of Lord Ellenborough, under any circumstances, is of course of no light weight, but still, when I bear in mind that only three months since Lord Ellenborough was decid edly in favour of delay, I cannot consent to bow in implicit compliance to the opinion which his lordship now thinks proper to give in favour of no delay. We have no means of knowing on what reasoning the noble lord has changed his opinion, and we are not called upon to follow him in what may be nothing more than an assumption on his part. (Hear, hear.) My right hon. friend the member for Stam ford has been especially relied upon over the way as an au thority; my right hon. friend stated, so far as I could col lect his statement, that he approved of immediate legisla tion himself, and that the late Government also approved of immediate legislation, and had desired immediate legis lation. This observation, or admission, has been made a great deal of over the way, where it has been repeatedly and triumphantly asserted, on the authority of my right hon. friend, that the late Government intended immediate legislation for India, and that, therefore, our arguments for delay are of recelit adoption. I am satisfied that my right hon. friend would make no statement of the accuracy of which he was not perfectly convinced in his own mind ; but, I am bound to state, with the utmost courtesy to my right hon. friend—this being a point on which no miscon ception P:nould prevail—that what he so stated I heard for the firs,'t time from his lips in this house, and I will add, that having spoken to the other members of tho late Govern meut on the subject, I am authorised by them, and, among them, by the nobleman without whose sanction no such course as that stated could have been adopted or an nounced—by Lord Derby, that none of them ever be fore heard of such a proposition as that the late Govern ment, intended immediate legislation for India. (Hear.) I would point out, further, with reference to my right hon. friend, that ha, too, like my hon. friend the member for Huntingdon, is decidedly in favour of the present sys tem of home government. I must now touch on the argu ments of the right hon. baronet opposite in favour of im mediate legislation founded on the state of India. The state of India has been urged as a state which did not per * mit of any delay in legislating for its government. Well, now, sir, I entirely differ—with great respect let me say it —from the right hon. gentleman upon that point. Thero may be good reasons for not delaying this measure for the government of India, or there may not ; but I deny that any good reason can be found for precipitate legis lation in this respect derived from the state of India. (Hear.) Gentlemen in this house speak of India as if it were some small country in which an insurrection would occur the moment the second edition of the newspapers had brought word that this bill for immediate legislation had been thrown out ; but just remember that India is a country more than one-third of Europe in size, and inha bited by 25 nations differing in race, differing in religion, and differing in Language. (Hear, hear.) What are the elements of coinbination among the people of India under these circumstances *: Why, sir, take the case of Germany four or tve years ago. Here you have a considerable country, but a country not to be compared in extent with India. You have a country occupied by seven or eight nr.tions of the same religion, of the same race, and of the same language. You have that country with all the ad vantages which modern science has produced for the inter communication of man and for the communication of in telligence. You have railroads, you have telegraphs, you have a universal press, and yet, what did the efforts, five years ago, to attempt a combination in Germany end in ? It was found totally impossible to make Austrians, Prus sians, Bavarians, and Hanoverians combine in any man ner theca. Though the people were of the same race and of the same religion, and speaking the same language, it was found that their prejudices were so great, that their interests were so different, arising from different con figurations of the soil and other causes, that the whole thing blew up like a delusion ; and yet you are afraid of an insurrection in India, a country nearly the size of Europe, and inhabited by 25 different nations. (Cheers.) But then, Sir, the right hon. gentleman warmed with his subject, and taking up the statement of the hon. gentleman the Secretary to the Board of Control (Mr. Lowe)—which otherwise I should not have noticed, because it was only one of those dashing statements with which the hon. gen tleman sometimes concludes his speeches—adverted to the state of Asia. It is not merely the state of Asia, but the unprecedented and peculiar state of Asia, which, we are told, renders it the more important that our legislation with regard to India should be immediate. Now, I say, the state of Asia is not peculiar, is not unprecedented, and that every circumstance alleged by the hon. gentleman (Mr. Lowe), and sanctioned by the high authority of the right hon. gentleman, is totally unfounded. (Hear, hear.) What was the statement of the hoc. member the Secretary to the Board of Control? It was a statement in great de tail, not a mere general allusion. He adverted to the con dition of Arabia, to the condition of the Turkish empire, to the condition of Central Asia and China, and he said they were peculiar and unpr ece d en t e d ; that Arabia was in a state of uncontrolled fanaticism, and that the position of the Turkish empire was most perilous and critical. I am very sorry to hear that. I am sorry that, with the coalition in power, Arabia is in such a state, and the posi tion of the Turkish empire has become perilous and critical; but it is a rule of law that no man has a right to take ad vantage of his own wrong—(hear, hear)—and it is no argu ment for the misgovernment of India that you have mis governed our foreign affairs. Then we are told that Central Asia is in a critical state—that the Khan of Bokhara is making war upon the Khan of Kokand, or some other Khan—(laughter)—as if there had not been war from all time between some one or other of the Khans. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The fourth point was about the state of China, which is now ravaged by a successful insurrec tion. Well, take the year 1833, when the bill of 1833 was brought in, and in every one respect the circumstances to which the hon. gentleman referred existed in far more extensive and aggravated a state, and yet they were never brought forward as an argument for imperfect and pre cipitate legislation. (Cheers.) 'What was the state of Arabia in 1833? It was not merely in a condition of fanaticism, but you had a new religion, which arose in the desert— a religion of conquest, —and you had the invasion of Egypt by the Wahabees. What was, then, the condition of the Turkish emp i re , w hi c h now we are told is critical and perilous ? Why, the Pasha of Egypt at the head of 100,000 disciplined troops was invading the Turkish empire. (Hear, hear.) While the right hon. gen tleman, the member for Edinburgh, was delivering his eloquent speech on the state of India, the Pasha of Egypt had already fought that great battle which rendered him complete master of the Turkish empire ; and there was a Russian fleet at the entrance to the Bosphorus, and a Rus sian army on the heights above Constantinople, six weeks before the bill was introduced by Mr. Charles Grant. (Hear, hear,) No on e , however, spoke then about th e s t ate of Arabia and of the Turkish empire as proofs of the im mense danger which existed with regard to India as rea sons why we should not act like statesman towards that country, and as reasons why we should at once pass a la w for its government for the next 20 years. (Cheers.) As to Central Asia, instead of a mere contest between Tartar Khans, had you not in 1833 the commencement of those mysterious combinations in Central Asia which afterward ended in the invasion of Affghanistan, as the only means bv perils you could terminate those terrible and imnd hig ? (Hear.) As for China, instead of an insurrec tionye everyt h es those against the reign ba i d ng ee d m y i r e s n t e y ed i , n w lB b 3 i 3 e , h alr m ea a d d misunderstandings disputes with that warcountry, man, acquainted te w rm ith ineteour the state ofaffa irsthere sure that only 0 0 few v y ears afterwards war with China andcom manedncead,very gave rise to a motion brought forward by the right hon. gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty. Turkish Taking, therefore, the s tate of Arabia, the state of the mp of thecbinaeinlirB3e3,—i n state tbeoefe i ns tances the circumstances Central Asia, and the state all ar of peril were considerably greater, but no man then, and forward and support an argu no man ever will, again come f anent for an imperfect and impolitic measure go vernment of India on the ground that vefuon'y l (Cheers.) there h fe a r danger the in that o r i n any ot h er part o f A s i a . ha teful to one more ob serva ti on to ma k e , and I am deeply gra _ to the house f or th e pat i ence w ith w hich it has listened me—there is one other reason given why we should not sanction delay in legislating for India. I have adverted to the argument drawn from the state next tt ye ar urged we why are to India and of A s i a . There i s one more argil- I V ) e h a s v h fr la lenaLtre of delay—that is because parliamentary re form. I k now we ll th a t h er Majesty's Ministry are bound —not merely as statesmen, but as men of honour—not only to propose a measure of Parliamentary reform, but also ok lugs moanuo of parliaments:l ;iforoi l 'kaput QM. 7 the right hon. gentleman (Sir J. Graham), with a candour which quite became him, informed the country that the only condition on which he could be induced to serve his Sovereign and the State was, that the present Prime Min ister should introduce, as soon as was convenient, not later than the commencement of the session, a large measure of parliamentary reform. And I know we have the autho rity of the right hon. gentleman—an authorityunimpeach able —that the Prime Minister completely consented to his condition—that he virtually formed his Government on the principle of parliamentary reform—and that he en gaged with the right hon. gentleman that a large measure of parliamentary reform should be introduced, (Hear.) Well, Sir, one word upon that, as a reason why we should not delay legislating for India. The subject of parliament ary reform, let me remind the house, is not of that com plicated character that it was in 1830; the nature of the suffrage, the elements of the franchise, the principles of representation—all these things now are pretty well known and understood. There is hardly a combination with re- . sect to these things which the Ministry would not be an ticipated in, and though we may have a measure of parlia mentary reform—a large measure—l have no idea that it need take up the whole of the session in discussion. I think the Government may introduce a well-matured project as to the government of India in Feb ruary , an d may dispose of it and bring in a measure—a large measure—of parliamentary reform before Easter. (Hear, hear.) But, Sir, I hope the house will remember the circumstances under which this engagement of the Minister was made. It is two years ago since the noble lord, then the First Min ister of the Crown, announced that there ought to be a measure of parliamentary reform—not in theory, but as a practical opinion which he had arrived at, and upon which ho was prepared to act. Let it not be said that while, from motives of personal convenience, a measure of reform. said to be necessary for England, is to be put off for two years, not the slightest delay can be brooked in regard to a mea sure which concerns the good government of 150,000,000 of people. (Loud cheers.) Are we to be told that India is to continue to be misgoverned, or that India is not to have the chance of better government because the noble lord who thought a measure of Parliamentary reform was necessary two years ago for England, has deemed it necessary to postpone that measure, from political or per sonal reasons, until next year? (Hear, hear.) The argu ments drawn from the state of India and Asia are power ful, valid, and respectable arguments compared with this argument, that the political convenience of a Government will not allow them to bring in such a measure. (Hear.) No, Sir, I will not believe that the House of Commons will sanction such a proceeding. (Hear.) I am sure that they will hesitate before they authorise such oonduct on the part of the Government. (Hear, hear.) I have now placed before the house the principal reasons why I support the amendment of my noble friend. It is an amendment brought forward, not in compliance with any new-fangled ideas in connection with this subject,—it is brought for ward in deference to the highest precedents—it is sup ported by the conduct of the most eminent men. It leads necessarily to a substantive measure for providing a future government for India. Before the existing act terminates, there is no reason why a government in India should not be provided by Parliament which shall be worthy of the exigencies of the occasion, and which shall show that the Parliament of this country is not entirely unworthy of its office, or unfit to do that which circumstances require. Sir, I am told this is a party question. Ido not hesitate to say that it would be no discredit to the Government if they sometimes availed themselves of the suggestions of this side of the house. (Cheers.) They have been in office only for a few months, and the right hon. gentleman the President of the Board of Control had not been peculiarly attentive to the knowledge required by his office until he came to fill it. These are valid reasons why the Govern ment might have agreed to postpone legislation. I know not the fate of this motion, but when I am reminded of party questions and party feelings, I remember how often we have to struggle here animated by those feelings on questions of passing and transitory interest. (Hear, hear.) We may have causes of struggle which may be soon con signed to oblivion, but we are now struggling for something that will not soon be forgotten; and, however I may go to the lobby, I shall be supported by the consciousness that on this great occasion I have attempted to do my, duty to those who have deemed me worthy of their political confi dence, and that I shall connect their names with a course of policy which I think will be honourable to themselves and beneficial to the country. (Loud cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL—I am sorry that in the present ex hausted state of the House I shall have to trespass on its attention before a division is taken on this subject. But I feel that the question before the House is one of so much importance, and that the observations of the right hon. gentleman are directed so much against the measure of the Government, that I must ask the House to listen to some observations from me. (Cheers.) In so doing I will pro mise the House that . I will make no reference to the ques tion of Parliamentary reform. (Cheers and counter-cheers.) This great question of India seems to me sufficient on the present occasasion to engage our attention. (Hear, hear.) My right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty said that, in fact, this discussion was directed towards two branches—the one, the question of delay, and the other, of the double government. These are, in fact, the two ques tions which the House has to determine. Before I address myself to these two questions I cannot avoid remarking upon the lesson that the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Dis raeli) seemed disposed to give to his party in his address to the House. (Cheers.) From the general observations which the right hon. gentleman made upon party I should be one of the last to disagree. I can conceive nothing dis honourable, and nothing discreditable, when two parties have a difference of principle, and one party takes one side and another the other, conscientiously believing that the welfare of the country will be promoted by the struggle for the ascendancy of those principles. But the right hon. gentleman's position has its difficulty in this,—that a party ought to have some settled purpose and some decided policy in, favour of which their friends and supporters are united when they call upon parliament and the country to aid and assist them. But this is a political occasion in which the noble lord (Stanley) who brought forward this motion, and whose candour and fairness I admit, and the right hon. gentleman who closed this debate on that side of the house, are both entirely wanting in the prefer ence of any policy that they can recommend. (Cheers.) They tell us to delay the passing of this measure. The noble lord's address was characterised by an inconsistency that has been pointed out by my hon. friend the Secretary to the Board of Control (Mr. Lowe), and I will now discuss the measure before the House. Upon the great question, whether wo will continue the government of India in the hands in which it has already been placed by Parliament, we have scarcely any light from the noble lord, and very little more from the right hon. gentleman, and therefore it is that in adopting the motion of the noble lord the right hon. gentleman had to endeavour to prop it up by dimi nishing the authority, by weakening the influence, and combating the arguments of a right hon. gentleman of great knowledge and experience, whom the Earl of Derby entrusted with the Ministry of India, and pitched upon as President of the Board of Control, and who therefore is the man of all others to whom the Earl of Derby and his Cabinet would have listened when he proposed his views on legislation for India. (Hear.) That is the first autho rity which the right hon. gentleman has endeavoured, but . . derstand the tactics of the noble lord. If the noble lord will permit me to parody a declaration of his own, I should say, "that his motion is neither conservative nor reform ing." It is not conservative, becauses it proposes for a long period of time to maintain existing agitation—a pur pose more opposed to Conservatism cannot well be imagined; it is not reforming, because the noble lord has not shown us even a single feature of any plan of reform. (Cheers.) Well, then, the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) says, "Oh, but you talk of dangers to India. The First Lord of the Admiralty talks of the state of Asia, and of China, and of other dangers that surround this question." I will show that in 1833 great, if not greater, dangers existed. Can the right honourable gentleman say that, in the face of those dangers, the Government of Lord Grey postponed for two years, or even for two months, to legis late on the subject? (Hear, hear.) No, Sir, in the face of those dangers, comprehending the full peril of the case, they introduced a bill into the house, which was read a second time ou the 9th of July, which was read a second time in the House of Lords on the 2d of August, which passed through Parliament, and every danger was averted by the promptitude and decision of Lord Grey. Then I ask the right hon. gentleman to complete his precedent, and, as he has adverted to the circumstances, to admit that we in 1853 should follow a similar course to that pur sued by Earl Grey in 1833. (Hear, hear.) This seems to me to be the great fact of the question of delay. I cannot but think that if the house agree to adopt that course, it would be a course attended with grave dangers (Hear, hear.) I say that circumstances themselves ought to be sufficient to convince the house that the authority of the Earl of Dalhousie and of Lord Hardinge may fairly be acted upon as the opinions of persons of actual experience in the government of the country. I think their opinions add additional weight to the force of the arguments which the question itself affords. (Hear, hear.) Well, next comes the important question which my right hon. friend has called the double government. In speaking on this question, I beg the house to recollect what the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) does not seem to have kept in mind—the general argument used on former occasions, used by my right honourable friend the member for Edin burgh, and used by Mr. Mill in his evidence in favour of what has been called double government with respect to India. I beg to call this fact to the attention of the noble lord who brought forward the motion, that no one has pro posed any system of government for India which is any thing else but a double government. No one has said that it would be sufficient to have a Minister of the Crown en trusted with the affairs of India without the assistance of some counciVor the advice of some persons who had ex perience with regard to India, and who might give that knowledge of details which persons coming into office, when Ministers change from time to time, must necessarily want. (Hear, hear.) Let us see 'whether you can have any other government for India. Let us see whether you I cannot have in this country some change which shall temper and guide the GovernerLGeneral, however wise, however able, and however temperate he may be—nay, let him have the abilities of a Lord Wellesley, all the virtues of a Lord William Bentinck—and which shall act as a check in cases where his poWer might require control ; and then let me ask whether you can have any better check than a body of persons independent in their positions—men thoroughly acquainted with the affairs of India, and who would be able to explain to the Governor-General the de talls of every measure proposed or adopted in India, and who would thereby oblige the Governor-General to feel that every act of his must be well considered, and that if at any time he should do an unadvised or inconsistent act, he would be liable "to check and rebuke. (Cheers.) Well, Sir, I must say I think a government of India, supported as it is by 70 years of experience, ought to have considerable weight with the house. I do not say it must be at all times the best government, or that you may not find, as you proceed with the mechanical improvements of the present day, that some of the machinery may be sim plified and replaced by better. That may be so ; but I say the course is at the present time to adopt that govern ment which is sanctioned by such authorities, up held by such arguments, and confirmed by such experi ence. There were, however, two defects, which have been constantly pointed out, and pointed out by those who now find fault with us for attempting to correct those defects. One of these was that the process of being elected to the Court of the Directors was one which occu pied considerable time, and which exposed the person seeking that honour to great solicitation, and which de terred many of the ablest servants who come from India from seeking it. Another injustice was, that there was so much patronage in the hands of the directors, and that, above all, the civil patronage was an object among so many of the proprietors, that it had great influence in the election of directors. As regards the first of these, we have provided that a certain number of directors should be named by the Crown—and could be named by the Crown, provided they had h a d ten years' service in India —without going through the process of election by the Court of Directors of the East India Company. I own, I think, the objection quite done away with by that proposal, nor do I think the objection once stated by my right hon. frierid the member for Edinburgh would apply to this proposal. It was no doubt the proposal first made by Mr. Chas. Wynn, and he put a limitation on it, which we have adopted, and which, I think, nullifies the objection which has been made against it—namely, that the persons nominated should have passad a certain num ber of years, and we have proposed that the number should be 10 years in India. We all know persons who come home after long service in India are not extreme partisans or party men they consider India always present in their minds, and, whether they are appointed by one Min ister or the other, that they regard the welfare of India above all other objects. There was another proposal made by Mr. Wynn at the time, which we have adopted, and which my noble friend Lord Glenelg wished to adopt in 1832, which is that of diminishing the number of the directors, and Mr. Wynn gave an admirable reason for it—" You had," he said, " twenty-four directors divided into four committees, but three of these committees were engaged on subjects connected with trade. You are now about to deprive the com pany of all business connected with trade or commerce, and, therefore, you have no need of more than the number of directors for ono of those committees —or, at least, have not so much need of them as when you had three commit tees sitting on trade," I think that the plan we have sug gested is a very reasonable proposal, and one which should receive your assent. I now coma to the other proposal to meet the other defect I have mentioned, and here I think the proposal we have to make is not only founded, as my right hon. friend the member for Edinburgh showed, on sound principle—that those who go out as candidates for civil officers should be exposed to general competition—but that it may be hereafter of the greatest importance as re gards the government of India. In the first place I think it will serve to connect the people of all classes in this coun try more with India—that there will he a more general concern—a more general interest in the welfare of India in this country, where young men are taken from all classes of society here. But, in the next place, it will altogether put an end to the fears which, I confess, I have always en tertained, that some day or other it might please the Par liament to give to the Crown the Government of India, and, with that Government, the vast patronage connected with it. I believe there could be nothing more dangerous for India and nothing more injurious to the Constitution of the country than that course. (Hear, hear.) But I have always apprehended that, without some change, such a proposal would be made. One who has written on Indian reform—a gentleman of very considerable ability, who has written on the subject last year and this—l mean Mr. Camp bell—says he thinks it would be a good distribution of the patronage of India if the offices were given to persons recom mended by members of the House of Commons. I entirely differ from that proposition. (Hear.) I can conceive nothing more dangerous—nothing more injurious than that we should adopt that plan. If the plan we propose should succeed—and, mind, I don't say it will succeed, because it . , . . - unsuccessfully, to weaken. (Cheers.) The next authority is only an experiment—whether we continue the govern on this subject whom the late Government would have ment in the company or confer it on the Crown, you provided a great mode of dispensing this great been disposed to consult is the hon. gentleman the member have p patronage. • I have heard hon. members speaking in this for Huntingdon (Mr. T. Baring), whose unwearied atten- debate with a view to amend, either with or without tion to this subject, as chairman of the India Committee, alterations, the present mode of the government of India, whose experience and whose sagacity the right hon. gen- and I have heard them speaking with a resolute deter- Homan (Mr. Disraeli) ought to be the last man to call in mination to put an end to the government. Some of question. (Hear, hear.) And yet his case is that the au- those who have taken that line are favourable to the thority of these two persons, pre-eminently the highest government of the company, but there is one extra authorities of his party, are to be neglected and set aside ordinary exception—my hon. friend the member for in order to accomplish some object which the right hon. Montrose. I confess I was quite astonished that the gentleman has in view. (Ch ee rs.) That is the way in hon. member, who Was wont to extol the government which a great party is weakened. (Cheers.) It is of India, and to praise so highly the mode in which not that a party will cease in England, but that when its affairs were administered by the Company, should give the leader of a party like the right hon. gentleman has his support to a motion of which the end was to weaken and no clear and settled policy to state, the mere intelli- finally to subvert the government of India. I will not now gent members of that party, who have considered g o into the mode in which the government of India has this subject, find it necessar y t o ac t f or themselves, been conducted. I think the general result of that govern and express such opinions as we have heard in ment—and I state it in opposition to the right hon. gentle this debate opinions which, if they do not agree man opposite—has been a flourishing condition of India— with this bill, yet derive much s tren g th f rom th e fact that, an improvement in the revenue, and an improvement in while the hon. gentlemen who express th em are not wil- the trade of the country—greater facilities of transit than ling to support the bill, yet they have a d ec id e d opinion were ever known before, and, generally speaking, a floss on this subject—that we ought to proceed t o legislate for rishing and prosperous empire, whose fate you have now India during the present session, and that legislation for to consider. I h av e se en it stated that we have not in India is the main principle and the first clause of the bill India those great public works which the former sultans of the Government. (Hear.) Why, air, it was difficult and princes of India founded, and that if we were to depart to find out by whom the motion of the nobl e lord was from India, we should leave no monument of our power. adopted. The noble lord's motion states that the house I entirely differ, sir, from that opinion and from that state requires further information before they will be prepared went. (Hear, hear.) For my own part, when I look back to legislate permanently for the government of lndial, to the government of great empires, especially in India and That is the first and main part of the noble lord's amend- in other parts of the East, I can see little to admire or ap ment. But is that the meaning of the motion? (Hear, prove—l see undoubtedly powerful empires, having esta hear.) By no means. We have had four nights taken up Wished their power by a disregard of all obligations, found in discussing that view of the question, but can it be co n - ing great works for some purposes of vanity and ostentation, • ceived that gentlemen are in that position, that they and erecting those works by the labour of those who were, have not made up their minds upon the great question as we see by the accounts of the sculptures of Assyria, whether the government of India shall be continued or lately published, slaves, who were prisoners of war, and altered ? But that is not the situation of those who have taken in battle with foreign nations. Those works were spoken on this subject. There is hardly one of them who in fact records of the misery, the endurance, and suffer has not stated a clear and decided opinion as to the nature ings of those prisoners of war whom we now treat with of the course to be taken. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, in humanity and kindness. (Hear, hcar.) But are there no fact, the motion is entirely fallacious in its terms, and monuments which we should leave behind us? Will his does not mean that which it would lead the house to be- tory tell no tale as regards the last seventy years of out lieve it does. But we have an explanation of the noble Government in India ? Will it not, Sir, be recorded lord's motion from the leader of the Opposition to the th a t i n th a t ti me we h ave pu t an end to those devas measure, when my right hon. friend asked for leave to tating wars in India in which the neighbouring princes introduce the bill. The hon. gentleman the member for attacked and destroyed each other to the total ruin of the Manchester has explained the meaning of this motion. peoi de, and that the scene of the ravage of the Carnatic so (Hear, hear.) He told the house it was intended, if the eloquently described by Mr. Burke has not been repeated? motion succeeded, to introduce a bill to continue the Go- (He: ix, hear.) Will it not be told that, instead of this, vernment as it is for th e apace o f t wo y ears ; and he von- our .language has been introduced, that better notions of tured to affirm, and I thi n k we ll h e m i g ht venture to law and justice have been spread among the people of affirm, that if two years w ere a ll owe d he was convinced India , and that if we have not done what one hon. mem that, at the end of that pe r iod, no Gov ernmen t founded on ber a eemed to think, strangely enough, it was the duty of the existence of the East India C om p an y wou ld b e adopted the : East India Company to have done in less than a by the house. (Hear.) Ido not fi n d f au lt with this deela- singh s century, and changed tho whole character of the ration of the honourable gentleman. His conduct upon peopl 0, we have at least laid the foundations for that this subject has been frank, direct, and intelligible. cha,m;e of character by which the people will learn that in • (Hear, hear.) I differ from him in some of his opinions, English estimation truth and justice are to take the place but I am disposed to agree with him in the opinion of falsehood and. venality ? We have introduced to the that, if for two years you have continual agitation, cu Itiva.ted minds of India a knowledge of the science and excited hopes, and inflamed opinions on the subject lit erature of Europe, and we have thereby enabled them of the government of India, if for two years you in future, whether they may be governed by England or by should support throughout India the notion that the pre- of her authority, to judge that Government by a better sent Government of India should be displaced, and that te: rt than by the old barbarous rules by which one per something more grateful to the popular feeling, some repre- fid io us conqueror was wont to estimate another. (Hear, sentation of all classes, some thing wild and impracticable, hem- .) My belief is, that, if our rule in India were to be should be put in it s place, and if you find every man who dents eyed, we should possess that consolation—a consola has not been successful as a lawyer, or who has been dis- tion better than that o f having built any of those palaces appointed as an applicant for office, if you find these all or h awing raised any of those, stately works which Sove adding to the agitation in this country, and endeavouring reign s formerly erected in India. I believe and hope that to indispose the people of India to expect and approve of a the ( lovernment of this country will long continue in India, continuance of the present system of government, I own I and : [ can gee no other power so likely to maintain peace am willing to avow that the enactment by Parliament of arnot ig the various nations of India, and no other power so such a Government would be highly problematical. (Hear, lik e l• yto introduce improvements from time to7time tend hear.) But is that all ? Will nothing else be seen in that ing t o the civilisation of India ; and believing that such is time ? It is only the continuation of the Government that our gre a t mission, I shall decidedly, so far as lam con would be in qu es ti on ? W ould it not be the very empire cern, A, not put that power in jeopardy by consenting to itself. (Cheers.) Could any man tell me that at the end t wo year s ' agitation and the unc%jrtainty of delay, and shall of the two years there would be any surety that Briti s h cer i , 3 inly vote against the tmendment of the noble lord, rule would still exist in India? (Cheers.) Well, then, I and L I trust that, the housP will assent to this measure. think the noble lord is lendi ng th e a id of hi s arm to shake 7le house t' Aen divid e d' ) on the question that the words India, and that he has little considered what fruit he might pr.( 'posed to 1 ., :e l e ft out stan d par t o f th e ques ti on : be scattering on the ground, what b ranc h es h e m i g ht s h a k e, Ayes what roots he might loosen, if not a b so l u t e l y d es t roy , b y Noes l4O being successful with his motion. (Hear, h ear .) Th e h on . Majority 322 182 gentleman for Manchester thinks he could stop short when ' rho bill was then read a second time without a divi he bad secured his object of destroying the East India sic,,n , Company. I doubt his power to do so. I can understand LIVERPOOL WHIT. his proceedings, for he has employed his strength in oppos- ' 9 1 11 e issuing o f th e wr i t was agreed to without a division. lug us izi the course which we propose; but i caw lot um. I ne house adjourned at 10 minutes to 3 o'clock, Er it ‘‘' n SUN OFFICE, Seven o'Clock. LUDLOW RACES. (THIS DAY.) (BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.) CUP STAKES. Trifle Titterstone. Minerva. Three ran. Won by a canter. BOROUGH STAKES. Mustang' Erin-go-Bragh Four ran SOUTH SHROPSHIRE STAKES. Ferret walked over. OLDFIELD STAKES. Jonathan Martin walked over. MPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—(THIS EVENING.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. PETITIONS. The Earl of WICKLOW presented a petition from solicitors in Ireland against the Taxing Officer (Ireland) Bill, on the ground that it disqualified solicitors for the office. The noble earl gave notice of his intention to propose the insertion of an amendment, with the view of meeting the object of the petitioners. The LORD CHANCELLOR said the Lord Chancel lor of Ireland and all the judges approved of the bill in its present form. The Earl of EGLINTON presented a petition from Glasgow complaining of the postal arrangements in that city. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Scot land in favour of the bill abolishing arrestment for debt, so far as regards the wages of workmen. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a petition from 500 incumbents, praying for a more equal appor tionment of church property, and for increased church accommodation for the people. SOUTH-EASTERN RAILWAY (CANTERBURY AND WHITSTABLE) BILL. Lord MONTEAGLE moved the suspension of the standing orders, for the purpose of enabling the Steam ship Owners' Association to be heard on petition against the bill. After a few words from Lord REDESDALE, the motion was agreed to. INDIA. The Earl of ALBEMARLE presented a petition from the mayor, town councillors, merchants, and other in habitants of the borough of Birmingham, praying that the house, in any measure for the future government of India, will abolish the existing system of double govern ment, and establish a home administration appointed by the Crown, and directly responsible to the Imperial Parliament. (LEFT SPEARING.) HOUSE OF COMMONS—(THIS EVENING) The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock. NEW MEMBER. The Earl of DALKEITH took the oaths and his seat for the county of Edinburgh. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The British Electric Telegraph Company, Halifax Waterworks and Improvement, and Ribble Navigation Bills were read a third time and passed. The Banbridge, Dublin, Newry, and Belfast Junction Railway, and Llanelly Railway and Dock Bills were read a third time. CHORLEY IMPROVEMENT BILL. On the motion for the third reading of the bill, Mr. BOUVERIE proposed the omission of the smoke-consuming clause. After a lengthened discussion the third reading of the bill was postponed until Monday, with a view to the modification of the clause. DEVON AND DORSET RAILWAY. Mr. BECKETT brought up the report of the commit tee on this bill, declaring the preamble not proved. Sir T. D. ACLAND regretted the decision at which the committee had arrived ; and he wished to know what were the intentions of the Government with re gard to the filling-up of the gap of railway communica tion which was left by the throwing out of this bill.? Mr. CARDWELL said it was an error to suppose that there had been any official interference in this case on the part of the Government. Lord SEYMOUR wished the evidence taken before the committee to be laid on the table for the purpose of being printed. The report was then laid on the table, and the evi dence taken before the committee ordered to be printed. PLYMOUTH ELECTION. Mr. AGLIONBY brought up the report of the com mittee appointed to make a further inquiry into the alleged corrupt practices at the Plymouth election. The report stated that a general belief appeared to have pre vailed at Plymouth both previous to, and at the election for Plymouth in 1852 that it was not illegal for a can didate or his agent to give a promise to obtain situations or employment for electors who had pledged them selves to vote in his favour. Acting upon this assumption, Mr. Mare and his agents obtained em ployment for several electors, as well in the dock yard at Devonport as in Mr. Mare's own dockyard, and the exercise of this patronage had a great influence upon the votes, by inducing many of them to promise their votes to f_r. Mare. A Mr. George Churchward, an agent for Mr. Mare, was chiefly instrumental in pro curing these situations, and that gentleman states in his evidence that he obtained situations for twenty electors in Mr. Mare's dockyard. He had some 30 or 40 applications for Government dockyard appoint ments, and in 25 of those cases he succeeded in accom modating the applicants. The committee did not think it necessary to recommend that any further inquiry should take place into this matter, but they desired especially to draw the attention of the house to the defective provi sions of the sth and 6th of Victoria, which they thought were not sufficiently stringent, while they felt that there could be no effective inquiry into these cases of bribery and corruption at elections, unless the inquiry took place on the spot where such bribery had occurred, and some additional powers were granted for compelling witnesses to answer questions. ROMAN PAVEMENT. Mr. EWART said some ancient Roman pavement had been discovered in Essex, and it was reported that it was to be removed to the British Museum. He wished to ask the right hon. baronet the member for the University of Oxford whether there was any inten tion to perpetrate this act of Vandalism ? Sir R. H. INGLIE replied in the negative, and took the opportunity of reminding the house that this country was perhaps the only one in Europe where the public monuments were not under the guardianship of some commissioner attached to the Government. TURKEY AND RUSSIA. Mr. LAYARD wished to asked the noble lord the member for the City of London a question of some im portance to the commercial world, regarding the position of affairs in the East. It was reported that the Russian autho rities had blocked up the entrance to the Danube, and the consequence was that some 370 vessels, laden with corn, were prevented from leaving the river. He wished to know if the Government had received any information of that fact ? Lord J. RUSSELL said no such information bad been received, but a communication had been forwarded from one of our consuls, stating that the entrance to the Danube was obstructed by natural causes. No account whatever of the Russian authorities having caused the obstruction had been received at the Foreign-office. EDUCATION IN SCOTLAND. Mr. CRAUFURD wished to ask the Lord Advocate whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Govern. ment to propose any measure of education for Scotland during the present session, and also; whether any proposal was to be made on the subject of schoolmasters' salaries in Scotland ? The LORD ADVOCATE said (there was no prospect of an education measure for Scotland being introduced at this late period of the session, nor did he think it would be necessary to make any proposal on the other subject until the Government had had an opportunity of bringing in a general measure. Mr. S. WORTLEY wished to ask the learned Attor ney-General whether there was any intention on the part of the Government to bring in a bill this session to carry out the recommendations contained in the last report of the Common Law Commissioners, particularly with regard to substituting an affirmation for an oath ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said such a bill was in a forward state of preparation, and he hoped it would be brought in either in this or the other house in a few days. Should, however, there be any difficulty in the way of passing the bill this session, there would be no objection to introduce a clause into the Evidence Bill to substitute an affirmation for the oath in certain cases. ORDNANCE SURVEY OF IRELAND. Sir D. NORREYS wished to ask the Secretary of the Ordnance—first, whether the reduced map of Ire land, on the scale of on.e inch to the mile, is in course of publication ? second, the number of sheets which have been completed and are on sale ? and, third, at what time the completion of the entire map may be ex pected at the present rate of publication ? Mr. MONSELL said the maps were not yet com pleted, but there were 35 of the sheets in a very forward state, comprising a space of 6,000 square miles, or one fifth of the whole area of Ireland. These were open to the inspection of the hon. baronet. SLAVERY IN AMERICA. On the motion that the house, at its rising, do adjourn until Monday, Mr. FRENCH called the attention of her Majesty's Government to a statement reported to have been made by the noble lord the Secretary for the Colonies, " That successive law officers of the Crown had given their opinion, that the State of South Carolina was justified in imprisoning, as they now do, coloured seamen, sub jects of her Majesty;" and to inquire wilether, in their future relations with that state, her Majesty's Govern ment are prepared to admit the legality of these proceed ings. Lord J. RUSSELL declined to enter into a discus sion on this question, but there could be no doubt that however legally right the proceedings of American States be in the matter, they were at least morally wrong. Mr. HUME said the declaration of American inde pendence declared that all men in the United States were equal in the eyes of the law, but it would appear that they were not so in Carolina. He hoped the corre spondence which had passed upon this subject would be produced. - Sir G. GREY hoped, if they got through the adver tisement duty at a reasonable hour this evening, they would endeavour to make some further progress with the Succession Duty Bill. Lord J. RUSSELL thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be fully justified in going on with the bill to-night, if he postponed the clauses respecting tim ber which were objected to. Sir J. PAKINGTON assented to that course. INDIA BILL. In reply to Mr. V. SMITH, Lord J. RUSSELL said the Government proposed to go into committee upon the India Bill on Thursday, and to then proceed with it until it was finished ; but on Friday his hon. friend the member for Aylesbury (Dr. Layard) had a motion on the paper relating to the state of the relations between Russia and Turkey, and as he had asked him to postpone it more than once he could not do so any longer. The hon. member would, there fore, have an opportunity of making his motion on Friday next. After that day he proposed to proceed with the India Bill night after night until it was got through. (Hear, hear.) The motion that the house at its rising do adjourn until Monday next was agreed to. STAMP DUTIES. - - The house then went into committee on Customs, &c., Acts. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX CHEQUER, the resolutions respecting feu and ground annual rights i n S co tl an d , an d respec ti n g scrip certifi cates, were agreed to. ADVERTISEMENT DITTY. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the following reso l u ti on : That from and after the sth day of July, 1853, in lieu of the duties no w p a y a bl e on a d vert i sements, be paid:— For or in respect of any advertisement con tained in or published with any gazette or other newspaper, or any other periodical paper, or in or with any pamphlet or literary work The right hon. gentleman briefly explained the nature of the alterations which he had made in the resolutions respecting the stamping of newspaper supplements, which have already been published. Mr. M. GIBSON moved as an amendment the inser tion of words to the effect that the advertisement duty should be altogether repealed, in accordance with the resolution of the house on the 14th of April last. He ex pressed his astonishment that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not abolished this duty after the decision of the house, and he could not but think, after the pro mise he had held out, that the matter would be taken into consideration, that the house had been trifled with. He was afraid that the right honourable gentleman had got into the hands of certain large new spaper proprietors, who thought that the continuance of the tax would keep up their monoply. On financial grounds the tax was objectionable, because it was miserable in amount, and would entail great expense and trouble in its collection. He would much rather prefer that it should remain at its original amount than not be repealed altogether. The hon. member concluded by calling on hon. members to support the amendment. (Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated the grounds which had induced the Government to pro pose the present resolution in lieu of the abolition of the tax. (LEFT SPEAKING.) THE LONDON GAZETTE (THIS EVENING.) CROWN-OFFICE, JUNE 29. MEMBER RETURNED TO SERVE IN THIS PRESENT PARLIA MENT. Borough of Stroud—Edward Horsman, Esq., in the room of Henry John Moreton, commonly called Lord Moreton, now Earl of Ducie, summoned to the House of Peers. WAR-OFFICE, JULY 1. 10th Regiment of Light Dragoons—Comet Dundas Rein hardt Gill to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Clements, who retires ; Cornet Henry Baring, from the 2d Dragoons, to be Comet, vice Gill, July 1. 16th Light Dragoons—Lieutenant Robert Goff to be Captain, by purchase, vice Spicer, who retires ; Cornet Edward Tottenham Irvine to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Goff, July 1. Coldstream Regiment of Foot Guards—Serjeant-Major Alexander Falconer, of the Coldstream Guards, to be Quartermaster, vice Morse, deceased, July 1. 6th Foot—Captain James Palliser Costobadie ' from half-pay Unattached, to be Captain, vice Reginald Peel, who exchanges ; Lieutenant Richard Thompson to be Cap tain, by purchase, vice Costobadie, who retires ; Ensign Richard Henry dood win to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Thompson, July 1. 13th Foot—Lieutenant Hugh Maurice Jones to be Cap tain, by purchase, vice Busby, who retires ; Ensign John Augustus Fuller to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Jones; Thomas Tyacke, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Fuller, July 1. 18th Foot—Lieutenant Charles Woodwright to be Cap tain, without purchase, vice Cockburn, deceased ; Ensign George William Stackpoole to be Lieutenant, without purchase, vice Woodwright, March 21. 19th Foot—Lieutenant George Bingham Jennings, to be Captain, without purchase, vice Brevet-Lieutenant- Colonel Charles Highmore Potts, who retires upon full pay; Ensign Henry Turner Uniacke, to be Lieutenant, without purchase, vice Jennings ; Gentleman Cadet Am brose Marshall Cardew, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Uniacke, July 1. 36th Foot—Captain Charles Woodwright, from the 18th Foot, to be Captain, vice Coote, who retires upon half-pay, 18th Foot, July 1. 37th Foot—Ensign Robert William Webb to be Lieuten ant, by purchase, vice Hobson, who retires, July 1. 54th Foot—Staff-Surgeon of the Second Class Eneas Mackintosh Macpherson to be Surgeon, vice Webster, who exchanges, July 1. 68th Foot—Ensign Harrison Walker J. Trent to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Nicol, who retires, July 1. 70th Foot—Lieutenant Arthur Henry Creswell Snow to be Adjutant, vice Rutherford, promoted, May 6. 87th Foot —Assistant-Surgeon George Pishey Thompson Hill, from the 17th Foot, to be Assistant-Surgeon, vice Banon ' promoted in the 96th Foot, July 1. 96th Foot—Lieutenant William Munnings Lees, to be Adjutant, vice It. F. W. Cumberland, promoted, May 6 ; Assistant-Surgeon Richard George Davys Banon, from the 87th Foot, to be Surgeon, vice Lucas, promoted on the Staff, July 1. HOSPITAL STAFF.—Surgeon William Lucas, from the 96th Foot, to be Staff-Surgeon of the First Class, vice Peter Robertson, M.D., who retires upon half-pay ; Assis tant Staff-Surgeon Thomas Guy, M.D., to be Staff-Sur geon of the Second class, vice Edward Robertson, deceased ; Surgeon George Murray Webster, M.D., from the 54th Foot, to be Staff-Surgeon of the Second Class, vice Mac pherson, who exchanges ; Alexander Clarke Ross, M.D., to be Assistant-Surgeon to the Forces, vice Guy,promoted, July 1. BREVET.—The under-mentioned cadets of the East India Company's Service, to have the local and tempo rary rank of Ensign, during the period of their being placed under the command of Colonel D. Jones, of the Royal Engineers, for field instructions in the art of sapping and mining :—John Underwood Champain, Gent. ; Robert Charles Boileau Pemberton, Gent. ' • R o bert Home, Gent.; William Strover, Gent. ; John Richardson Maunsell, Gent. ; Harry Pym, Gent. ; William Chrystie, Gent., Ist July. IdEMORANDIISI.—The removal of Ensign Henry from the 86th Foot to a Cornetcy in the 14th Light Dragoons, on the 10th June, 1853, and the appointment of Mr. Thomas Tyacke to an Ensigncy in the former Corps, on the same day, have been cancelled. OFFICE OF ORDNANCE—JUNE 29. Royal Regiment of Artillery — Second Captain Thomas Knox, to be Captain, vice Ines, deceased ; First Lieute nant Wm. Magrath King, to be Second Captain, vice Knox ; Second Lieutenant Charles Edward Torriano, to be First Lieutenant, vice King, May 20. MEMORANDIIM.—The date of the promotion of the un dermentioned officers has been altered to 19th May, 1853 ; viz. :—Captain R. P. Radcliffe ; Second Captain J. E. Thring ; First Lieutenant J. Lyons. Corps of Royal Engineers.—Second Lieutenant Charles George Gordon, with temporary rank, to be Second Lieu tenant, with permanent rank, June 23. Royal Regiment of Artillery.—Gentlemen Cadets to be Second Lieutenants.—Horace Percival, vice Waller, pro moted; George John Young; vice Purcell, promoted; Henry Thos. Arbuthnot, vice A. C. Johnson, promoted ' • Robert Biddulph, vice C. B. Le Mesurier , p romoted ; Wm. Stir ling, vice Elliot, promoted ; Peter Edward Hill, vice W. Stirling, promoted • Arthur Walsha m, vi ce Philips, pro moted ; Stuart John Mildmay Maxwell, vice Pickering, promoted ; Champagne L'Estrange, vice A. W. Johnson, promoted, June 22. Corps of Royal Engineers—Gentlemen Cadets to be Se ebe- con d Lieutenants with temporary rank—John Fret ville Dykes Donne ll y , vice El p h instone, promoted ; John Edwin Comes, vice Cumberland, promoted.; Lowry, vice Luard, promoted ; William Meredith Somer ville, vice Phillpotts, promoted ; Alexander De Conroy Scott, vice Fyers, promoted ; Carew Louis Augustus in the Gazette of Dec. 31—In O'Grady, vice Creyke, promoted, June 22. Thomas Graves the list of Gen [Erratumtlemen Cadets, promoted to be Second Lieutenants in the Royal Regiment of Artillery, for William Alexander Patrick Willie, read William Alexander Patrick Wyllie.] ADMIRALTY, JUNE 25. Corps of Royal ka7i-ne7—Second Lieutenant Richard Johns, to be First Lieutenant, vice John James Douglas Barclay, deceased. ------ RBOYysTrsLuCrsrßeDy-LMIEITtEiaN_ANGTSe.orge 3d cor es T e o n N t S o rg] ) Browne, Esq., late Captain in the Bth Hussars, June 11; Miles Stringer, Esq., June 17; the Hon oura bl e G eorge Charles Mostyn June 21, to be Captains. , 3d or Royal Virestminster Light Infantry Regiment of Middlesex Militia —Thomas William Nunn, Gent., to be Lieutenant, June 22. West Kent Regiment of Yeomanry Cavalry—Cornet Charles (Miley to be Lieutenant, vice Ward, resigned ; WilliaJunem, Gent., to be C orne t, v i ce Offl ey, pro moted, 27 . BANKRUPTS. John Wallace, tailor, late of Calcutta, now residing at Gordon's Hotel, Covent-garden, to surrander, July 9, at one, and August 12, at half-past one, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Whitmore, official assignee, Basinghall street ; Murrough, New-inn, Strand. William Jones, hop merchant and tea dealer, Kentish buildings, Southwark, July 9, at half-past one, and August 10, at one, at the Court of ,Bankruptcy. Conan, official assignee, Aldermanbury ; Sole, Turner, and Turner, Aldermanbury. James Harper Gibbons, straw hat warehouseman, Wood street, Cheapside July 11, at one, an d A ugus t 10 , a t twelve, at the &art of Bankruptcy. Graham, official assignee ; Ashurst and Son, Old Jewry. Charles Gahagan, coach builder, Paddington -green, July 8, at twelve, and August 10, at one, at the Court of Bank ruptcy. Stansfeld, official assignee, Basinghall-street ; May and Sweetland, Queen-square, Bloomsbury. James Gray,, currier, Wolverhampt on , July 13, and August 9, at twelve, at th e C our t of Bankruptcy. Whit more, official assignee, Birmingham ; Thomas, Walsall ; Hodgson, Birmingham. Ephraim Harris, pawnbroker, Merthyr Tydvil, July 12, and August 9, at eleven, at the Bristol District Court. Miller, official assignee, B r i s t o l ; R eece, Birmingham ; Abbott and Lucas, Bristol. William Bradshaw, builder Birmingham, July 12 and August 9, at twelve, at the Birmingham District Court. Christie, official assignee, Birmingham ; Rushworth, Bir mingham ; Smith, Birmingham. Owen Morris, bOot and floe maker, Plymouth, July 11, at one, and August 1, at half-past Ten, Exeter District Court. Hernamann, official assignee ; Elworthy, Ply mouth. James Garnett Lockett, merchant, Manchester, July 12, and August 1, at twelve, at the Manchester District Court. Pott, official assignee, Manchester ; Sale, Wor thington, and Shipman, Manchester. BANK OF ENGLAND. An Account pursuant to the Act 7th and Bth Victoria, cap 32, for the Week ending on Saturday the 25th day of June, 1853. lESUE DEPAETMENT. Notes holed ........ 32,191,885 Government debt.... 11,015,100 Other securities ...... 2,984,900 God coin and bullion 18,175,731 Silver bullion.- • . 19,158 X 32.194,685 I £32,194,885 M. MARSHALL, Chief Cashier. Dated the 30th day of June, 1853. BANKINCA DXPARTMENT. Proprietors' capital .. 14,553,000 Rest.. • • ............ 3,116,2 U Public deposits (in cluding Exchequer, Commissioners of National Debt, Say ing's Banks, and Government securities (Includg.Dead Weight Annuity) , ..... 13,118.010 Other securities...... 13,705,389 Notes Gold and silver win .. 470,404 Dividend Accounts) ~5,532,113 Other deposits ...... 12,332,410 Seven Day and other Bills .............. 1,323,394 £36,857,128 X3G,857,12R M. MARSHALL, Chief Cashier. Dated the 30th day of Jane, 1853. PRICE OF SUGAR. The average price of Brown or Muscovado Sugar, computed from the returns made in the week ending the 28th day of June, 1853, is 235. Bd. per hundred weight, exclusive of the duties of Customs paid or payable thereon on the im portation thereof into Great Britain. COURSE OF EXCH. -ANGE—Tats DAY. Amsterdam .• • • II IFW Ditto, three months .. 11 18% Rotterdam] ...... 11 18% Antwerp 25 27% Brussels 25 27% Ilamburgh ...... ••• • • • 13 7% 'Gibraltar ..... Leghorn ...... •• • .... . 75 Genoa ................ 25 40 Milan ................ Venice ................ Naples ................ 41% Palermo .... .......... 124% .. Lisbon ........ •••• • • • 53 '4 Oporto Rio Janeiro Ditto, throe months 25 27% Marseilles. ..• Liourdeaux .. — Frankfort-on• Maine .... 120 Buenos Ayres...... •• • • New York, 60 days' sight Philadelphia •• • • PRICES OF BULLION, PER OZ. Foreign Gold in Bars £3 17 9 Portugal Gold Coin .. 0 0 0 Mexican Dollars .... 0 4 11% New Dollars ...... 0 0 0 Silver in bars ...• • • 0 5 1% Berlin .• ....... Vienna ................ 11 3 Trieste ............ •• .. 11 5 E'etersburgh............ Niadrid . ..... .......... Oa liz . Seville ................ QUARTERLY CIRCULAR OF THE SCOTCH IRON TRADE. We have received the following Quarterly Circular of Mr. T. Thorburn, dated -81, St. Vincent-street, Glasgow, 30th June. Sir,—During the last three months the production of pig iron in Scotland has, from various causes, decreased 25,000 tons, when compared with the same period im mediately preceding. The home consumption, and exports foreign, coast wise, and per railway, as ascertained from authentic sources, amount since the end of March to the extraor dinary quantity of 295,000 tons. The stocks, which are now only 325,000 tons, laying consequentlyi n wa r ehouse k b e e e e n p e r r e s d ' u s c t e o d r e 1 5 25 7 0 d 0 0 m t o a n k s e , rs' and h i n a ntdhse haface ve, too, of a felt scarcity of tonnage and high rates of freight. _ Notwithstanding the large shipments, and a great local consumpt, but a small advance has been established, prices oscillating (after a fall of 30 per cent.) between 50s. 6d. and 555. per ton. Though these cow quotations have induced unprece dented exports, these rates are unremunerative to the iron masters in general, owing to the scarcity and in creasing cost of labour and ironstone, and have tended to curtail the production. 112 furnaces are now in blast, being 7 less than there were three months ago. Two furnaces lately put in operation at Lugar are to be stopped next week. The averages prices were in January 665. 6d., Feb ruary 545. 10d., March 525. 11d., April 525. Bd., May 50s. 10d., June 525. 9d. per ton. To-day the market is very firm, and an anxiety to in vest in the article is apparent. Gartsherrie and Colt- - ness, No. 1, 575. 6d. Glengarnock and Summerlee, 565. ; Mixed Nos. g.m.b. 535. to 535. 6d. per ton, cash. The uncertainty of the issue of the Eastern Question impedes business. Manufactured iron generally has declined 15s. per ton, but rails have, during the last few days, advanced ss. to 10s. per ton, owing to the active demand, not only for home railways, but for the Continent and America. Bars, 7/. Us. Rails, 8/. 10s. NOTICE TO THE PUBLIC.—GENERAL POST-OFFICE, June, 1853.—0 n and after the lstJuly next, every printed price current, commercial list, course of exchange, shipping list, or other publication printed and published in the United Kingdom, although not strictly a newspaper, but bearing a newspaper stamp, and not weighing more than 20z., the circulation of which by the Post, under the newspaper privilege, has been, or shall be, allowed by the Postmaster-General, will be placed in all respects tra the same footing as a newspaper, and entitled to the same privileges, whether as regards inland postage, or British postage when sent abroad or from one colony to another, or aught else, except that no stamp will be required on any supplement to the publication called Llogd's List, provided such publication bear a newspaper stamp, and the supplement be sent with it._ . - EUROPEAN GASCOMPANY.—The annual meeting of the proprietors of the European Gas Company was held on Thursday, at the offices - of the company, when the usual dividend of 5 per cent. per annum, together with a bonus of I per cent., was agreed upon, after carrying to the reserve a sum equal to one-seventh of the total net profits of the year. COUNTRY MARKETS. DERBY SMITHFIELD-JuxE 28. There was a limited supply of fat beasts to-day. Some were only of an inferior sort. High prices were realised for all kinds of beef. The number of sheep and lambs was less than that of last week. The demand for both was good. Fat and store calves plentiful. Few fat pigs. Prices :—Beef, 6d to 6id ; mutton, sid to 64d ; lamb. lid to 8d ; veal, 5d to 6d per lb. ; pigs, 9s to 9s 6d per score ; rough fat, 4s 6d per 141 b. ; hides, 2d to 20 per lb ; skins, 3id to 4d per lb. EDINBITRGII GRAIN- Jura: 29. We had a large supply of grain in to-das market. There was a good demand for wheat, which advanced generally. Barley was very dull, while oats sold readily. Beans nominal. Wheat on the top 6d, and the average is 3d, up. Barley on the top 6d,th p ege d a v a e n r adth6e,down.average is 7d, down. Oats on the top 5 d down , and the average 2d up. Beans on the top is 6d, and BOSTON-JUNE 29. At this day's market we had a moderate supply of wheat for the season, but a short delivery of both oats and beans. Good fresh samples of wheat sold freely at an improvement of is per qr., but stale grenaried parcels cannot be quoted. as an y dearer. Oats met a rea d y d eman d a t 6d to is p er qr. a dvance. Beans firm. P r i ces were as follow :—Wh ea t , red, 42s to 48s, whit e , 49 s t o 51 s , e xtra, 535; barl ey , 00 s to 00s ; oats, 18s t o 21 s ; b eans , 40s to 433 ; p e , 00 * t o 008 per qr. SUMMER DRESSEEL—Bankruptcy of Mr. E. Blake ley, Silk Mercer and Shawl Manufacturer to her Majesty. —ln addition to the rich silks and shawls iu Mr. Blakeley's s tock, rece n tl y purc h ase d an d now selling off by Messrs. Atkinson an d C o ., o f 69 t o 75, Westminster -bridg e-road, there are about 2,000 pieces of beautiful French Muslin; Bareges, and Norwich Lus tres, a ll quite new, first-class goods, worth from 21d. t o 4s. per yard. These are now being sold by Messrs. At kinson and Co. at less than a quarter of their value ; that is, f ro m bid. to ls. W. Ladies are respectfully recom mended to inspect these goods, in order that their extent, quality, and cheapness may be duly appreciated. N.B.— Messrs. Atkinson and Co., having recently enlarged their premises, have now a very extensive assortment of superior Cabinet Furniture, Carpets and Upholstery.— Weekly Times. BIRTHS. OF A SON. On the 28th ult., at 12, St. James's-road, Holloway, Mrs. W. J. Bullock. On the 29th ult., at Bath, the wife of Captain G. H. Fagan, B.E. OF A DAUGHTER. On the 27th ult., the wife of the Rev. Edward Baines, rector of Bluntisham, Hunts. On the 29th ult., at Glasgow, the wife of the Rev. R. S. Oldham, M.A. MARRIED. On the 30th ult., at St. James's, Westminster, Sir H. M. Vavasour, Bart., of Spaldington, Yorkshire, to the Hon. Louisa Anne Neville, second daughter of Lord Bray. brooke. DIED. On the 29th ult., at the house of her son-in law, William Clement, E q., of Alton, Hunts, Mrs. Dacker, formerly of Greenwich, Rent. On the 26th ult., in Great George-street, Liverpool, Thomas P. Dillon, Esq., aged 57. LONDON : Printed and Published by AIITRDO YOUNG, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office. No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the county of Middlesex, Friday, July 1,1853. 1