The Sun. — London, England, 1804-05-31 00:00:00

Negroes from the toast cf :A:ftica. . the House, long rain how I4e would as k of d lon i would be ar to h ave this sort on the population of this Country ? and that he begged to conned with another subjea of magnitude, which was our Oriental Possessions, and the demands we may have for Europeans in the East Indies. may all this increase of posses sion, and of demand for men from this Country to support milit ary establishments, how long we could in that of the view b e a b le to allow the continuance Slave Trade from Africa, was not for him to y ; but under such a knowledge of fads, he should think we ut a shall soon tp, B find i t a b so l utely necessary to to great cir cumstance was, th e state o f St. 4-Jomingo. He wotial ask, if this was a time to go WI to increase the disproportion between the Blacks In 'd the Whites, at a , so to increase the danger of in_ 'sureon in our island s ? He really thought there 4‘l:P a sort of i n f atuation in this business : those '''' 1 ° el-Warted with the T ra d e seemed to be aftlided a sort of blindness to their own interest, as tve that ll as to chaffad of thei r C ountry. He apprehend_ groesunless this traffic of introduci ng fresh Ne w bean as st o p ped, there must, some time or other, al explosion that would b e f ata l to our I slands together. He conjured tow 'nea r St. n the House to consider 1 ---u tnirigo was to Jamaica, and how constant the com municatio n now was between the two Islands, and th e eir e ft the state of the one *as likely to have on the other, and, indeed, on all the rest of the Islands, if to be increased continually, and the disproportion this importation was tetween ,the Blacks and Whites made greater and greater. We now an opportunity, better than any that had ever offered before, to put an end to Otis fresh importation : how long Providence might free us that situation we could not tell, but it was our duty to avail ourselves of it. But it had been paid, that the critical to ind uce hi m to w s tate of t h e W est Indies ought discussion o f this subithhold hi s Present Moti on , f or t h e Ihad a tendency to produce insurredion in the West ndia Islands; and that the e gemancipation of the Ne roes in the West Indies would be attended it dreadful effcCis. T o t hi s, he desired it to be w re h colleeted, that it was who Supported him, that called for the emancipa lion of the Negroes in the West Indies, as part of „atilt System of the Abolition of the Slave Trade ; who opposed Pat it was chase Tat would be the ea& of it. He knew, indeed, who stated, t h at . if the African importation ceased, a , nl 7 e- lioration to th e con di t i on of Negroes in the N. .t I n ches wo u ld b e the consequence ; for when the g dant ers, or th ose w h o had the care of the Ne rOes in the West Indies, knew they could import I',) Mote from Africa, they would naturally take i th e hest care they could of the stock they hat . But it was quite ridiculous to say, that discussions in lite British House of Commons led to insurreCtions in 1 " W est Irdies among the Negroes. They did not l'tead the Debates. Besides, this observation, was th e down by the fad, that the subjea has I3Cen agitated for r 6 years, and has not produced Pr) insurredion : and as to information upon the I"eY the of emancipation, and topics of that nature, turedhad it constantly from St. Domingo. He con. the Gentlemen of the West India interest to ue w'ane of their danger if this traffi c was continued. lie regarded an insurredion as a certain event, if this importation was persisted in. He would not say, because he had no'rneans of knowi;,g, when it would happen; but it was, like death, sure to saidhappen, unless the system was abolialied. It was , that the condition Of the Negroes was very . much improved in the Middle Passage, and that the owners of estates in the Islands would treat them well, because it was their interest to do so. This, he confessed, was very unconclusive reasoning with him ; the interest which affeaed the adion s of Wanking must not be that which depends on close reasoning and laborious dedudion, but it ' must Be an interest plain, immediate, and palpable ; such as .affeaed the passions of mankind —for their ac tions were always governed by their passions. lie would ask, for instance, whether any body thought .that any one of the Roman Emperors " ;committed any adi of cruelty in consequence of -having, upon contemplation in his closet,: de. icicle& that it was for his interest to do so ? No, MI,. all these ads of cruelty were the effeds of passion, not of convidion of interest, in the sense in which reason pints out the true interest of man, for that would never lead to any thing but virtue, H e knew not that he had any thing farther to detain the House with, except to call on the House to look at the melancholy pidur e of the Slave Importation Trade ; to see the e ire a it produced, and would still farther produce ; its horrors in Africa ; in the diddle Passage ; in the West Indies : let the House see it was in us power to stop the evil, and hay inhg the power, let each Gentleman ask himself, wae ,t t he n it was not his duty to exercise it, to put an ~redito that which wa s a disgrace to the - Natio n he -111:jseented ? He addressed now a number of Gentle fore'. There.wete man y now wn "" h e had not the honour of addressing be. not before had • 'resent to he had was an accessiodnn o'TP:lr:unity of appealing, There Members from a neighbouring Country ire ' ' J k-,e,dnu), in which neither viper or other us l'en°lllo animal was produced, or cou ld thrive. lie !japed that the R epresentatives o f t h at country, s o remarkable for liveliness 'and generosity, would no t think of staining its c h ara d es in supporting,now P o o red the d i first time, the greatest venom that ever ap- ' n human society, the Slave Trade. Hay tieg in paid many handsome m en or t h at compliments to !he Gen- country, he proceeded to make 10me observations on the reasons of his bringin g this Motion before the House. He was blamed by lutne fur persisting in, by others for neglecting, this suhjed. He .shauld certainly never cease' to Pursue. this subject until he had gained his objea, andoliat he conceived to be a duty which lie owed to his coootry. Aod as to the traffic itself, indepen dent of some. supposed commeacial policy, even the "'eery adversaries of his proposal to abolish the i'radea admitted the i - justice of it, and now re duced it to a mere question of expediency. Here he read the declarations of 3.th ilitiled : this , e many G ent l emen who while they oppose d his former fiat- Motions in t h e H ouse. Having thanked the House ite- attention to hien, in a very handsome man ner, he concluded with moving for leave to 'n a Bill for the Abolition of the African Slave T raae t It a time to be iimitea observint, ene blank would be filled up in the Committee, specify ing the time at which the Abolition was to take place. And then he moved, that the House do now resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House to consider of the said Motion. The question being put, Mr. FOLLER contended, that the situation of the Negroes in the West India Colonies was equal— nay, superior to the condition of the labouring poor of this Country. They were better fed and more comfortably accommodated. He maintained that their labour was not nearly so severe. The best of the Negroes did not in general perform half as much labour as even'the most indifferent of our labourers. It was not, he argued, true, that the Negroes felt themselves miserable under English Master's. The very reverse was the case, for they felt themselves happy under an English Master and an English Go vernment. He had letters in his pocket which as sured him of the feet, and he knew it from his own experience. The way of punishing Negroes for of fences, was to threaten them with transportation to their own Country, and a return to the Govern ment of their Native Tyrants. He had made trial of this mode of punishment, and he had found it effeaual. The same opinion had been supported by a Member of the Colonial Assembly of Ja maica, a man of the highest worth and the most distinguished humanity. The tyranny of the Na tive Princes of Africa was so disgusting, that it must have inspired horror. In the history of that country, he had read of almost incredible inStateces.of cruelty. Their places were nor wire quently covered with the skulls of their murdered subjeas, and in their court-yards piles of bones were deposited, to inspire the miserable followers with a due portion of awe! It was true, as had been de scribed, that all law was set aside, and that for witchcraft, and other accusations equally ridiculous, thousands of viaims were banished their country. When the Negroes got to the West Indies they were not divested of these foolish notions. On his own estate he had been obliged to hang a Negro for having killed four others, on an imputation of witchcraft. A good deal had been said about the capacity of the Negroes. He had never heard the Africans deny their mental inferiority.. They had never hesitated to confess to him, that they could not vie with Europeans in talent or knowledge. In matters of ingenuity or calculation, they were no match for the inhabitants of the other quarters of the world. It had been contended, that no at. tempt had been made to keep up the stock of the Negroes. This was not a fair statement. The at. tempt had been made by many respeaable individuals, but without adequate success. A very worthy friend of his, in Jamaica, and one who yielded to no man in humanity, had carefully direaed his attention to this objea. He himself had followed the same course ; but, owing to the impossibility of procuring a suf ficient number of Female Negroes, it was impossible to keep teethe stock, without fresh importations. He did not deny that the immediate Abolition of the Slave Trade was a great objea, if prafticable; but it did not appear to him prafticable in the present state of the West Indies. Even if we were to give up the importation, Negroes would continue to be imported. He had heard, indeed, with. in the last few days, that Dessalines had de termined to take up shipping, to bring fresh cargoes of Negroes to Sr. Domingo. Of the hardships which the Negroes suffered, he really knew nothing. They had, on the contrary, consider able means of comfort. They had it in their own power to save money ; but this money they preferred spending in wakes and other meetings, where they enjoyed them Selves according to their own peculiar customs. The Maroon War had:been alluded to, and the situation of the Free Negroes had been described in very favourable colours. He begged Fete to state, that in that War only eight or ten individuals joined the Maroons. Those Negroes who were. represented as so oppressed, preferred staying with their masters to engaging in this con test, He admitted that the Slave Trade was not moral in its nature or origin, but he thought that it arose out of the peculiar circumstances of Africa. We had heard of the History of that Country for six hundred years ; but we saw no rays of improve ment or civilization. If the inhabitants had been capable of civilization, they could easily have been able to drive off their coasts a few African Slave Ships, end thus have prevented the original establishment of the trade. Something in the internal circumstances of the Country must then have favoured the esta blishment of the system, and it had from these causes gradually obtained a footing. He asked the House, by way of illustrating the argument, to reflex on the means by which we had acquired our Eastern Empire. In the first instance, we only asked a lit tle corner for the purpose of carrying on our trade. W e had gradually usurped the dominions of the Na tives, had made a conquest of their Country, and - had become that great people which now enabled us to hold up our heads against all the mischief and ambi tion by which we were threatened by France. It was plain to all those who studied the History of Mankind, that people always got on by degrees in prosecuting their favourite schemes. They began with a little, and soon got on to something more substantial and permanent. So it was with the Slave Trade. It would have been a good thing, if it had been checked before it got to its present head, but as it had gone on so far without correc tion, he did not see that it could be now abolished. If it could be rendered more palatable, if rules for diminishing its severity could be adopted, he, should be happy to give them his cordial support ; but he did not think the Honourable Gentleman's objea praticable ; he should, therefore, vote against the Motion. Mr. B ARII AA! .agreed - with the , Right Hon. Mover as to the object, but he differed with hi m as to the means of attaining it. If the Slave Trade was Abolished by Law, it would still be carried on in a contraband manner under foreign fl ags , so t h at however a Law to this effeet may outrage the Co lonies, it would not effect the Abolition. The adop tion of this measure would only prevent the success E others which may be resorted to with more bene fit. He thought it the best plan t o ren d er t h e im portation difficult, by imposing fresh burthens every year, taking care not to carry them so'far as to en courage El contraband trade, and to lessen the demand by withholding new hands 'froth . Cultivation, and purchasing up the exhausted lands at a small price.. Then the Colonial Legislature might take measures to facilitate the multiplication of Slaves, and to bet ter their conditiOn. He cited the opinion of Mr. Burke, to prove that the Slave Trade should he abo. fished in the West Indies before it could be -abo lished in Africa. It was to be expefted i that when Jamaica was brought into a state of .complete culti vation, the Slave Trade would fall off - by the cessa tion or dimintition of the demand ; that island, however, continued a Very a&ive Slave Trade. A still further increase was to be expeCied from the acquisition of a new island (Trinidad). Of what value could that island be to us if we meant to renounce the Slave Trade ? A mystery hung over that island, which prevented it from being known whether it was to be abandoned or not. If it was not to be abandoned, we may bid adieu to the Abolition of the Slave Trade. He considered the state of St. Domingo as the foulest reproach to the Governalent which had driven it to that state. — He thought it right and prudent to avoid, as much as possible, interfering with the internal Legisla. tion of the Colonies (a cry of hear, hear, from Mr. Fox)—Whatever may be thought here, more was to be done by conciliation than any other means.— He was averse to direa emancipation, but he wish ed that such measures should be it4ted as were best calculated to improve the disposition and the state of the Slaves, and thus prepare them for Li berty by a progressive improvement ; for he was of opinion, our Islands could not continue, in the-state. in which they now were.. Mr. TV. SMITH did justice to the sentiments of the Hon.*Member who spoke last, and who urged his sentiments in a manner which should claim equal resped in speaking of those who were con cerned with the West Indies, The House was, in his opinion, in a very extraordinary situation ; when, after a lapse of twelve years, during which this subject had been repeatedly discussed, it was now necessary again to go over all the proof and argument that had led to former Resolutions, similar to that now called for, and this in a Coun try which claimed high rank for its moral and philosophical charades. It was, indeed, a most ex traordinary thing, that having 14. years since come to a Resolution that this trade should he put an end to, not one step had been taken since, but we had ra ther gone backward.—Even now the onur pr,7handi was laid on the supporters of the Motion, as if they were still bound to shew that the pradice of buying and selling men, for their lives, and the lives of their children, to the last generation, was a pradice unworthy of .sn enlightened nation to persevere in. He could account for this on no other principle than that common and not respefta. able one, that possession was nine points of the law. He would not go into the treatment of the Slaves in the West Indies, nor the conduct of the Captains in the Middle Passage, to deduce argu ments for the Abolition of the Trade, though very strong arguments for it may be found in both ; he would confine his observations to what related to the Coast of Africa, and from the evidence of the supporters of the Slave Trade themselves on a former occasion, he should shew the most deci sive grounds in justice and humanity for putting an end to it. It was naturally to be supposed, that a business, which was to be carried on by the abuse of power and violence, would be sop_ ported by falsehood ; and, in faCI, every point of the evidence adduced by the advocates of the Slave Trade, was contradided either by the same witness in his subsequent testimony, or by one of the witnessess that immediately follow ed. Here the Honourable Gentleman read from a Paper a series of absurdities and contradidions in this evidence, which he had seleded in less than a quarter of an hour. First it was said, that the African Princes were absolute Monarchs, who could either kill or sell their subjects, when those sub jsas refused to cultivate a sort of labour, which they could not endure ; then those who could not endure to cultivate at home, were quite happy to go to the West Indies. And why were they so ? because the trials were all fair, and there were no false accusations, where the criminal was invariably sold for the benefit of the accuser. The persons who gave this testimony were not without a view ; they conceived, that if the House agreed to an ab surdity, it would be but one step more f►r it to sanc tion a crime. For him, he !sad never ceased to lift his voice against this abominable trade, and if he was to believe the testimony of its supporters, there was but stronger reason to put a stop to it. This evidence stated that the Negroes were made Slaves by war, by prosecutions for crimes real or. imaginary, by adultery, sometimes by gambling, and that, some were even bred up to be Slaves. This last he could by no means believe ; but if it even were true, he hoped it would not be held consistent for us to sanction the barbarity of a Prince who would breed up his Subjects to be Slaves. Mr. FULLER explained. _ _ General TfiRLEI ON said, that although he must consider himself as one of those persons proscribed by the Hon. Mover, he could not help expressing his disapprobation of thi s - Motion. At the same time, he begged to observe, that the Hon. Gentle man's mode of proscription upon this question was as arbitrary as any that was ever resorted to by Sylla, or any other fidator. The Honourable Gentleman had, he admitted, introduced much new matter into his speech—a thing the more to be wonder ed at upon a subjeft so often and so ably discussed. To the principles upon which the Honourable Gen_ denim) rested his arguments he could not hesitate to subscribe. His grounds were Religion and Morality; but he had pushed 'thos4 - , principles to arrextreme. Evils were to be met with iti,ev;:ivdireClion; ivar,,was an evil of the greatest kind,' and - yet-we were obliged to endure it. Many things were tolerated which could nor be justified' on stria principle. Though war was an evil, we still'engaged in it ; and though the National Debt was a grievance, we still laid on new Taxes, and contracted for Loans. The Honourable Member compared the state of the Country in 1792, when the Resolution for the general Abolition of the Slave Trade was . adopted, with the present period, and contended, that the difference was such as should urge the House to pause before it agreed to the Motion under Debate. In the former instance, the Country was at Peace, cvm. riles'ce arty diantifaature§ were Aourishing, and only A gradual Abolition was called for: Yet now; when the Country is involved in a War-that requires all our re 3 sources and our commerce is embarraaed,an immediate Abolition of this important part of our Trade is appli; ed for. Under these circumstances he could nor see the policy of such an appliCation, and 'he hoped that verriment would interfere to proten the Merchapts s and defeat the views of the Mover. Thte Holt. Gen_ adman had taken notice of the alarm which his Mo tion was likely to give to the persons concerned in the culture of the West India Islands ; and certainly the alarm already excited by the state of thoe Islands, this proceeding was of a nature considei-ably to in. crease, but about that increase perhaps the Hon. Gentleman was very little disturbed. Ind t ;,ed the Hen. Gentleman manifested a disposition in this business still more arbitrary towards English Trade than Bona parte himself. The First Consul invited the Powers of Europe to join with him in attacking us, in (mike to partake of our Commerce ; but the Hon. Gentle man would deprive us altogether of one important branch of that Commerce, in order to transfer it to other Nations, and this at a time when every branch of our Commerce is so much shackled. After stat ing that he should take other opportunities of deli:. vering his sentiments more at large on this subject, the Hon. Member said, that he did not think it ne cessary this night to put it to a division. Mr. MANNING expressed his surprite that a measure of so much importance as that before the House, should have been brought forward at this advanced period of the Session ; but yet he was per_ fatly willing to stare, that he felt the most perfect conviction of the honourable motives which attuatcd the Gentleman from whom it originated. He could a..sure him, that every Proprietor of respeetability, from Barbadoes to Jamaica, was grateful for his ex ertions, and felt much benefit .from. them. With re sped however to the proposition for an immediateAbo_ lit ion of the Slave Trade, he begged to call to the re. collection of the House, that by several Alts of Par liament, some so early as the reign of Queen El;za beth, British Merchants were encouraged to vest their capital in this trade. then Parliament shoukl de termine on the immediate Abolition of the trade, it would be felt,he trusted,that the Merchant , ; and others conneded with West India property, who might lose by such a measure, were entitled to compensa tion. To ascertain the amount of such loss, he thought that a Parliamentary Commission should he appointed, and that a proposition to that effect should accompany the Motion before the House. If Parlia ment hadchanged its .mind as to the expediency or j as rice of this traffic, it would be unjust to allow those who had embarked their capital upon the faith of Parliament, to suffer any pecuniary loss. He called for this consideration upon the same principle as that which was uniformly acted upon where any public measure was productive of injury to the property of individuals. As no indemnify, such as he had al luded to, was conneded with this Motion, and also as he was adverse to the immediate Abolition of the Trade which gave rise to it, he moved that the other Orders of the Day should be then read. The Motion being put, Mr. WILBERFORCE rose to state, that his Mo. tion did not refer to the immediate - Abolition of the Slave Trade, and that the. time for that desirable event was to be considered in a CoMmittee upon the Bill, and not in the present state of proceeding. Mr. DEVAY NES asserted, that the Country was as well governed, and the laws as fairly administer ed, on the Coast of Africa, as in England. The Hon. Member added, in vindication of the Sl ave Trade, that he had had a conversation with one of the African Kings, who told him, that if the slave merchants did not purchase from him and others, their prisoners taken in ‘var, those ptisoners would be killed. Mr. Will. SMITH, adverting to the description he had before given of the law of the African Princes, &c. said, that he quoted that description from the evidence adduced by the Hon. Member who had last spoken and his friends. He contrasted some parts of the description, and particularly the statement that the prisoners of war, if not bought by the Slave aotters, would be murdered, with the declaration, notwithstanding, of the Hon. Gentle man, that those African States were as well govern. ed, and their laws as well administered as in this CLtintry. Sir JYM. GE .4 Rl' thought, that from motives of humanity the total and immediate Abolition of this Trade should he resisted ; because, if the proposi tion were adopted, he was very much afraid that the effed would be to transfer the "Trade to other Nations, through whom the same miseries would be induced to Slaves, of which the House had heard so much, and against which such prOvisions had been made by the benevolent exertions of the Hooour,,i;le Mover of the proposition before the House. Mr. ADDINGTON said, he should support. the Amendment, but on different grounds from those stated by the Hon. Gentleman who moved it. The Abolition of the Trade, which formed the subject of the Debate, he always congidered not as a question of expediency, but as a question of pradicability ; and in that view, if the Motion had been for the appointment of a Committee to consider of the means for the Abolitioo of the Slave Trade, it should have had his concurrence ; but as it stood, he must vote against it, because he felt that it would be im possible to carry it into execution. So contrary was the mode of proceeding proposed to the accomplish. meat of the objed in view, that he was persuaded, should a Bill be founded on the Resolution described by the Hon. Member who opened the Debate, such Bill must be repealed before the Trade could be abolished. Sir ROB ERT BUXTON spoke in favour of the Mo. lion. The CHANCELLOR ef tbe EXCHEQUER said, that if the Motion before the Houk were for the immediate Abolition of the Slave Trade, he should have no hesitation in giving it his warmest support, because he thought the first moment for abolishing that inhuman traffic would be the best. Never theless, he was ready to support any proposi tion that' cluld approximate with that desirable "event. He would lea a satisfadion in any mea.. sure that tended even to a gradual Abolition. To this he understood must Gentlemen who had, on a former occasion, delivered their sentiments, to be friendly, and with the views of such Members the