The Sun. — London, England, 1801-02-03 00:00:00

.: ~~.; hkdly'another man to be found in this Cotintry who would hesitate for e moment, yet there were °Mgr points up'on which his -mind appeared to be free from doubt,,and his opinion completely made up. If, after a full discussion of this question, -it should appear that the Claim which this. Coun try has made is founded on the clearest and most . indisputable justice—if it should be proved that our greatness, nay; our. very existence as a Nation, and every thing that has raised cis to the exalted situation which we hold, depends upon our possessing and exercising this-Lif, 1, say, all this should be provd' in the most satisfailory manner, still the. Hon. Gentleman is prepared seriously to cleclare.in this House, that each are the Circumstances in which we stand, that we ought. publicly and explicitly to state to the world that we arc unequal to the Contest, and that we must quietly give up for ever an on. questionable right,and one upon which not only out . character, .but our leery existence as a Maritime. Power,, depended. '!'leis is the' conthia which the Hon. Gentleman ad vises_ us to pursue it once, without v est igat i ng,:wi thout deterinining,'whe: thee it is compatible. with our safety. I really find much difaculty,..Sit, in reconciling this lan guage to that sort' of spirit which the Hon. • Gen, tlernan talks of in another part Of his Specch, in which he says, he is far . from wishing to make Country . despond.-- {Mr; Grey here - said across the Table,' that he .had been . miss/viler tood.).-Sir, I am stating what the Ron. Gentle man said, and I shall,be happy. to find thai he did :lout/can what he said., ,I shall. now,' Sir, en deBv,our to follow . die on. Gentleman dumb his argument, as fur as I' can recoiled it, upon tic important question of the Northern confe ile.,-acy. following -, the order which he. took, I must begin with his doubts, and end with his certainties ; and cannot avoid observing, that the. Ilon;•Gentlernan -Was` singularly unfortunate uparLt4is : subjea; for he entertained doubts where there was not the Slightest for'hesitation Aral he . contriees to make.,up his mind to absolute certainty, Upon points in whiCh both argurnent and fail are decidedly against him. That, part of the question upon which the Hon. Gentleman appears to be involved in doubt, is with respect to the justice of our claim with regard to Neu. tral Vessels. In Commenting upon this part of the sithjea, the Hon: Gentleman gave us a lessori in politics, .which is 'more remarkable for its 4ounciness than • its novelty, viz. that a Nation fought not to enforce a claim tisat,is not founded in justice, and that nothing would,befqund to be consistent with true policy that' was not eon. formable to stria justice.- I thought, however, X heard the Hon, Gentleman in another part of 'ills Speech, where he was arguing the qUestion cf the expediency and propriety of our negotiat ing a separate Peace with France, contend. that pu consideration of good fai th to Austria ought to prevent us from entering into such a Negotiation. 1/11)..Grey said be hart not laid that down as a prin t-;'lr, but merely with respea fc t fie circ i vvistances under , which , we stood with rcgard,to Atistria.)- 1 am glad to, hear the Hon. Gentleman contradiel me, but I certainly understood hiM to aay I am also glad to find, that when the issue of 'fail is found against hiM, he has no demurrer in 're. Aerie upon the principle. Upon the justice, however, of our claim, the Hon. Gentleman erateF, himself to be wholly in doubt. Ihere h, Sir, in general, a degree of modesty in doubting, That conciliates very much, and a man is seklqin nclined to bear hard upon an „antagonist whose attack doe; norexceed the liMits of a doubt. Bet, Sir, whet) a Gentleman doubts that which has been indisputably established for more than a —, Centurywhen he douhrS that whichhas been an ;acknowledged principle of Law in all the Tribu. 'Pals of the Kingdom, which are alone competent to decide upon tie subjeil, and which farliiment has constantly known them to eta upon—when jie doubts principles which the ablest and wisest Statesmen - have uniformly adopted—l say, Sir, • the dinibt that 'call's; in. question principles' so 'established, without offering the slightest ground for 3 . 1 - .) doing, spews a great deal of that pert pre_ Silt-option-wok!) as often as modesty leads to seep. t:eisnl,r4 Wish , to ask,every Gentleman in the pause, whether it has not been always known that such was the principle opon which our Courts were ailing from ,the commencement of the.pre. se . ntWat up to the Momeet.that I am speaking ? ask whether that principle has not been main tained in every• War ? Let me at the same time ask whether, in the course of the speeches . of the . opntlemen on the other- ,side of the Houk, 'any one topic: of alarm-has been omitted, 'which either fart could furnish, or ingerittity supply ? I Le:level shall not be answered -in the negative, and yet I believe I may safely assert, that it never occurred to any one Member to increase the difficulties of the Country by stating a doUbt -upon the Question'of Right; and it will be a raost singular eireumstance,. that the ?knowable 'Gentleman arid hit Friends should only have begun to doubt when our, EneMies are ready to begin to combat. But though I hive heard doubts expressed upon a SubjeCt ; on which it ap peared to me that a doubt could hardly have entered the mind of an Englishman, I haVe not heard one word to shew on what ground -there can exist a doubt upon the justice pf 'our claim, a claim - .which, until this House 'decides the conriery, I shall 'consider as part• of the Law of the Land. For I consider the Maritime Law, and the Law of Nations, as aaed upon in our Courts, to be part of :the Law,of the Land. I speak in the presence of *orne, Learned Gentlemen, who are conversant - Li the praitice of the COUtts to I allude, And who, I Am sure, will contradia me if I state that which is 'mortal. I ask any 'of these Learned. Gentle:nen, whether they would suffer the principle upon which Our claim rests to be called in question - in any of their Courts ? Bqt When we come to consider this question as ap. plying to the Contest in which we may be Cu.: 'gaged, there am so many consideration's that 'are decisive blots the subject, that I am really con _ • , . vinced from the manner in which the Hon. Gen. tlemnn treated it, that his doubts have all arisen from, his not having lookedinto the question.— There are two ways io which this subject is to be considered ; the first is, what e has been the ge neral Law of Nations upon this sußjed, indepen. dent of any particular Treaties which may have been made. The next is, how. far. any . precise Treaties of ed it, with regard to the particular Powers who 'are the objeds of the present dis pute ? With roped to the . Law of Nations, I "know that the principle upon which we are now 'afting, and for which I am now contending, has, been universally admitted and aced upon, except in cases'where it has been restrained or modified by'particular 'Treaties between diffefent States. And here I must observe, that the Hon. Gentle. man has tallm into the same error which consti tutes the grat fallacy in the reasoning of the M. vocates for the Northern PoWers, namely, that every exception frOm the General Law by a . par. ticullir Treaty, ; proves the' Law to be as it is stated in 'that Treaty .; whereas the very cir cirmstances of making en exception by Treaty, proves wTat the General Law of Nations would be, if no Such Treaty were made tomodify or alter it. The Hen. Gentleman alludes to the Treaty :Made between this Country and France in the year • 1787, • known, by the name of the Commercial -Treaty. In that Treaty it certainly was stipulated, that in the event of Great Britain being engaged in a war, and France being neutral,that she should • have the advantage now claimed, and , vice Terra ; hut the Hon. Gentleman confesses,'that he recol leds that the very same objection was made at that time,. and. was fully answered, and that it was clearly proved, that no part of our stipula tion in that Treaty tended to a ,d.erelidion of the principle for which we'are now contending. Besides, when it is considered: how far the inte rests of t h is Country can be implicated ilea Naval War in which France is neutral, it will not afford any proof, either that we considered the principle as unimportant, or that we gave it up. I could, without in the slightest degree weakening the cause which I am endeavouring to support, give to the Hon. Gentleman all the benefit he can possibly derii.e from the Commercial Treaty with France, and from particular Treaties with other States, and I should be glad to know what advan tage he could derive from auclean admission, If he could shew Treaties, with any given number. of States, still, if there were any State in Europe with whom no such Treaty was in existence, with that State the Law' of Nations, such - as I am now contending for, must be in full force. Still more, it • will e be- el lowed to: me, that if there-is any Nation that has forborne to be a party. to *se 'Treaties, that maintained this principle and has enforced its rights ; in such a case, no inference that can be drawn from Treaties with other Powers, can have any weight. The utmost the Hon. Gentleman could argue, and even in that I do not think he • would be founded in justice, would, be this—that if there was no general consent with respect to the principles, that particular .Treaties ought to serve as a guide in other cases. But what will the Hon. Gentleman eay, if, instead. of my stating an imaginary. case, I give to him this', short answer, That with every one of the ibree Northern Powers with whotti we are at .present in. dispute,. independent of the Law of Nations, of our uniform predict, and of the opinions of our Courts, we have the stria Letter of En. gagements by. which they are bound to us ?-- What willehe say, if I shew, 'that their pre sent conduit to us, is as much a violation 'of. positive Treaties with us, as it is of the Law of Nations ? With respell to Denmark and Sweden, nobody here, I am -sure, has to learn .that the Treaties of 1661 and 1670 are now in full force, and nobody can read those Treaties without seeing that 'the right of carrying enemies' property is completely given up.. , With regard to Russia, the right of this country never was given up by us. It • uudoubtedly was very much discussed during the time that the Treaty of Commerce with Russia was negotiating; but I will not' rest my argument. upon negative' evidence. 'ln the Convention signed between Great Britain, and Russia at the Commencement• of the preselet - War, the letter hound herself not ( merely tai observe this principle by a Convention,, (not done away, unless that we have unjustly commenced hostili ties against her), -bet she engaged io use her efforts to prevent Neutral Powers from protOlitig the Commerce of France on . the Seas or_ in the Pores of France. Laying aside then'every other ground upon which I contend that the principle am now maintaining is supported, still I say, that ..the Treaties with Oleic three Powers, Rus sia, Sweden, and Denmark, are now in full force; and I ask, whether it is possible to suggest any one ground, upon which it can be contended that these Powers • are released . from their engage ments to us ? So much foie:the justice of the claim. I will not, Sir,' take up much 'more of the time of the House, because. there will he PApers laid before the. House which will place the subjeft in a clearer point of view than can be dune in the course of a Debut ;—but I must say, that with', eegard to these Powers, the case does not stop here. What will the Hon. Gentleman say if I shew him, 'that in 'the course of the. present War both Denmark and. Sweden have distind lee expressed their readiness to agree in that very principle against which they are now dis posed. to contend, and that they, made acknow ledgments to us for not carrying the claim so far as Russia was disposed to carry it ? 'What will the Hon. Gentleman say, if T shew him that Sweden,. who in the year; s7BO agreed to the Armed Neutrality, has since then been at• War herself, and then ailed upon a principle diredly contrary to that which she ngreed to in the year 1780, and to that :upon . which she is 'now die. posed to ail ' In the War between Sweden and, '‘Russia, the farmer distindly aded upon that very principle for which we are now .eontending.— What will the Hon. Gentleman say, if 1 shew him that in the last Autumn, • Denmaik,', with her fleets and Arsenals•at our mercy, entered i,G 4 N,DU N : P ccited by 1111 CI lANAN M`lll I 1.1.‘1N, (of Low-Si rcet, Covenr.cia At tlit:Svti-Ovrici, No. t is, Strand ; where Adweritsenvereet, Orders I into a solemn pledge not again-t 0 sen .Verals with Convoy, until the was settled ;and that notwithstanding this solemn pledge, this State has entered into a new Convention, similar to that which was agreed to in t 7 So ? One of the.engage ments of that Treaty • is,. that its stipulations are to be maintained by force of arms. Here * then is a Nation bound to us by Treaty, and who has re, cently engaged not even to send. a Convoy until the point should be determined, that . tells us she has entered into an engagement; by which she is bound to support that principle by force of arms. Is 'this, or is it not, War ? Is it not that which, if we had not heard the Hon. Gentleman this night, would lead a man to think he insulted, an Englishinao by questioning his feelings upon the subjeCt ? But, Sir, when all these circumstances are accompanied by Armaments, prepared at a period of the year when they think they .have • time for preparation without being exposed. to our Navy, - HIS MAJESTY informs you, that these Courts have - avowed the principles of the Treaty of 1780, known by the name Of the Armed .Neu. trality ; but then the Hon. Gentleman says, wedo not know the precise terms of the present Treaty, and - therefore we ought to take no steps until we 'are completely apprized of its contents. It is true, we do not know the exact... terms of the Treaty, but I should think if we demand to know, whether they have made engagements which we consider as hostile to our interests, and they tell us they have, but do' n?t tell us what exceptions are made in our favour, we are not, I should think, bound to guess them,' or to give them credit for them until they are .shewn to us.• How far would the Hon. Gentleman push his ar, gument ? Will he say, that we ought to Wait quietly for - the , Treaty, that we ought to take no step, until we have read it ..paragraph by paragraph, and that then we . should:acknow. ledge' to ,those Powers that we are now. dispirit cd, and not prepared to dispute the point Does he mean that we should give them time to_ assemble all their Forces, and alai:fie them to produce s something like a substitute for the fallen Navy of France ? Is this the conduct which the Hon. Gentleman would recommend to the adoption of this Country ? Are we tb wait till . we see the Article itself, ,until we see the Seal to . the Contrail of our Destruaion, before we take aonneans to insure our defence ? Sir, I will not , trouble •the House any longer upon the question of Right, I come now to the question of Expe. dience, and upon this part of the 'subject the. Hon. Gentleman :is not so much in doubt, The ques. tion is, whether we are to permit the Navy of our Enemy to be supplied_, and recruited—whe., timer we arc to suffer . Blockaded Forts to be fur nished with warlike stores and provisions , whe- - titer we are to suffer Neutral Nations, by hoist. ing a Flag upon a Sloop, or a Fishing Boat, - to convey , the treasures of South America to the harbours of_ Spain, or the Naval Stores of the Baltic to ' Brest or Toulon ? --.- Are these the propositions which Gentlemen mean to con tend for, for I really have heard no argument upon the subject yet t [Mr. Sur.a.tuma wed Dr. LAW RENC It entered the licute tuether, and tint down rOon the chsciitc bench.l I sup. pose I shall be answered bye and bye, as I see there is an accession of new. Members to the Confederacy, who will, I have no doubt, add to the severity and the length. of the contest—l would ask, Sir, has there been any period since we have been a Naval Country, in which we have not acted upon this principle ?—The Hon. Geri. tieman talks of the destruttion .of the naval power of France, but does he really believe that her Marine would have been decreased to the degree that it now is) if, during,the whole of the Kar ) this very principle.bad not been abed upon ? Ana if the Commerce of .France had not been de. stroyed, does he believe tlfat if the, fraudulent system of Neutrals had coot been prevented, that her. Navy would not . have been in very different .situation from that in which it now is ? Does he not know that the,naval pre. ponderance which we have by these means ac:. quired, has given security to this Country, and has more than once afforded chances for the sal vation of Europe ? In the wreck of the Continent, and the disappointment of our hopes there, what has been the security of this Country, but its naval - preponderance—raod if that were once gone, the spirit of the Country would go. with it. If we had no other guide, if we had ,nothing else to look to but the experience of the present War, that alone proves,. not the Utility, but the neces sity of maintajning a principle so important to the power„ and even to the existence of this Coun try. There.was something rather singular, in the manner in which the Hon. Gentleman commented upon and argited from the destruction of the Naval Power of France : he says, her -Marine is now so much weakened, that we may relinquish the means. by which we have so nearly destroyed it, and, at the very same moment, he holds out the terrors of an Invasion of Ireland. The Hun. Gentleman-says, we . are not flow as we were in the year. 17So, shrinking . from the Fleets of France and Spain, in the. Chanpel ; but ,if that was your only ;excuse, for . tiots asserting the Fin-. ciple in the year 1780, we have not now, hap pily for this Country, the same reason for not persisting in our rights, and the question now is, whether; with incteased prOofs of the necessity - of ailing upon that principle, and with increased means of supporting it, =rare for ever to ,give it up I As to the noc?ssity of the Charge of , or making inqui ries into Charges which are to be exhibited against any part of the Conduit of Administrztion, and which are to inanuA upon a review.of their past Conduct, it is an nounced by the Hon. Gentle= u, that WC are to have them laid before us. We shall h the opportunity of dis cussing them abUndantly . ; 'none c them touch the point i which. s 110 - W before us ; for the t mendment, as it stands, would only be embarrassed . by reference to these topics. 1 think the Amendment calculated to obstrud the proceed. ings. of this Country, on which its safety depends.— Many ,other topics alluded to by the lion. Gentleman are important; but they arc so only id a secondary degree. I thi.)4 the question of Right- in dISIMIte between us and the Oc.fedenitett Powers, so eminently important, that it I..tms, at tacit hour, the nndiyided attention of this House. As to what his been said on other topics, of the Censures which Ought to be east on the CoUnsel we.3lsve had any share tii gir:ag, for the Prosecution of the War, I have •nl; and Published by JoniiliswlCK, (Of Ur4ven.litulii:ll,:.s, Druryrl,,Jue4.., " in tile Paps-, letters. for ,the &Thor , Sic : (pert aid), mot, be adare4ied, the e,944olatiori of knowipa vvilaTiEik are likely to be, - 7 - 73 Iron a recolletliiin of what Oily have repeatedly been,L thavrtey will most probably be . put in .the same way; and, will admit of heing•answered in the same way as they 'have been al,eady answered as often as they were brought - forward, and I cannot help, flattering . myself With the.. same success . I hope also, that the _Public will fccl as they toe ! repeatedly felt, that the Calamities winch have . overspread Europe, and , which have a flOited, to a . certain degnx, this Country, though' rottn.ll les; than . any other, have not been owing to any defect on our part, but that we.haie pursued pro - nap:es hest calculated for the welfare of Hit= Society ; the nature and - etti.tet of Which' have been frequently commerted.upon by those who_ha,vc, • opposed, and by those who have supported these pronci plc:;, and with whom I have the honour to- act, and still have the honour of acting, and on which.' say , the Power, the Security,. the Honour of this Nation has depended, and which I trust the perseverance and firmness' of Parliamerw.and the NatiOn will continue, His Majesty's Servants discharge their duty." • Donor LAWRENCE entered at considerable length into. the Question befOre, the House, and .supported the. Amendment. He was answered in an eloquent-and most ingenious , Speech by the So Lierroot GENERAL, none of the path culars of which, nor of the remainder of the Debate , hive . • we any room to detail. . Mr. •To rr: Nry followed the SOLICITOR GENLIAL, and contended strenuously for the Amendment. Mr. Secretary DU NDA S spoke ably ter the original Address. . • .• Mr. SneRID•AN followed in favour of the Amendment. , -- Mr. PITT P:Silted _OW' most clearly the precise extent to which the House would bed.' pledged by the Address, after which the House divided, For the Amendment . 63 • • Against it, and tor the original Address a. • • Majority, 182. At Eli:\ L ❑ o'Clock.the Housc adjourned. THE SUN. SOLEM QUIS DICERL EALSUNI AI:DLAT LONDON: FEBRUARY 3, 18 oz. • Nt !THEE of the Two Hasytturgh Mails due, had arrived when this Paper was put to Press. The Kt vo was attended to the House of Peers yesterday, in the State Coach, by the Earl of CHFSTERrIELD and Lord ViLi.LoppitaT,DE , Baox.E. His MA; FStY, on arriving at the House, WILE received by Their Royal Highnesses the PRINCE of WALES, the DUKES of Yoak, ciAßtNcr, KENT, d.CI.7NIIIERLAND. WICKLOW Et.EcrtoN.—At the close of the. Poll on Wednesday last, the, numbers stood thus : ----For GEORGE PONSONBY, 647 —For Laid PROBT 3 600.—Majority for. Mr. PONSON,r)Y, 47, A Jamaica Paper of the l'gth Dec. says—" We are happy to announce the arrival of His-Ma: jesty's 'Ship Anzeiica, .Capt, BiNctiBm, Which had 'struck on ,Las Formigas, a sltoal of rocks off the N. E. end of this Island, but was fortunately got off. His Majesty's . Ship Surp*.-", Capt. LAROCIAE . , accompanied her into roft." Yesterday., at the Coin Exchange, the supply from Essex, Kent, and Suffolk, was rather large, but the finest Wheats obtained fully as high prices as last week. Inferior samples, as like, wise reas, Beans, and Oats, had rather a heavy sale. • , • TOILSAY, F B. I.—Arrived the. San Josef, of t t is; guns, Admiral Lord NELsou, from Ply mouth. DOPER, FEB. 2.—This day arrivad and sailett for the River, the 'Oneida, PEARSONi from Charlestown; the Mirri.tiippi, CALLAHAN', from Virginia ; and the Mar).,:)rovi, from the CCM% of Guinea,—.The Cartel which sailed from he= on Saturday, returned this morning. Her Crew was not suffered to land at Calais, and the French t men who came along-side their Vessel, told them they might soon expeet a visit in England from the French Army. SHEERNESS, FEB. z.---Arrived His Majesty'4 ! Ship Agamemnon, of 6+ guns, from the No•rth ward.--A large Frigate . (whose name is yet utis known), has come down the .Rivee Thin= this afternoon, and anchored at the Nore. . DEAL, fEB. 2,—The Anacreon Armed Brig sailed last night on a Cruize, and recaptured, about two o'clock this morning, 'off the South Foreland,. the Catharine, a light Collier belong ing to Sunderland, taken a short time before, by• a French Lugsail Privateer belonging to liou, logne. The A n acreon and her Prize ETC both arrived in the'Downs. „ The American ship Columbia, from Charles .town,bound to London, was yesterday evening; taken by a French Privateer in Dover Roads, and carried opposite Calms, where the French men brought her to an anchor with two cables a head ; and while they went on shore with the Captain, the Mate cut her cables, and succeeded in getting away, and .fortunately arrived in the Downs.this morning in safety, and has since been conducted by a Deal Boat, into Ramsgate Harbour. , koice OF STOCXS, TILSTLItDAY. 3 per Cent. R,;(1. c?.l aSB I 3 per Cent. Ccns. 57ia Curio s. for vo 571 i The Subjea of NEUTRAL CONVOYS, on which the NORTHERN CONFEDERACY is pretcniled to bcr founded, and which formed the chief DISCUSSION in PARLIAMENT LAST NIGHT, is fully eluci clued in :hc fallowing Traa. . This Day. was published, T T PON the . VISITATION of • NEUTRAL 1) VESSELS under CONVOY; or, An Impartial judgment, of a judent, proninimei by 'the English Court of. Admiralty; the iith june, 1799,: to the Catlett" the SWEDliti CONVOY; with some AdditiOns and Corry:aims. By M. 1: F. W. SCHLEGEI:, : 4 ' Do6tor and Professor of Law in the University of Copal. ham, Extraordinary Assessor of the , High Court of justice,' Metribct of several Learned Societies. Traoslated fromthoDanish,. under , thelnsPeClion 'of the Author, •bylsi. DE JUGS,-:French lospector at the Academy . of Cutiqts Marine at Copenhagen; thencc into - Inglith. • • Printed for 5. DcbTett, opposite BurlYngton House, Pic cadilly. Of whom may be had, • The 'EARL of LI V El(100l.'s 1)!SCO URSE on the CONDUCT ut • GREAT BRITAIN in resped to NEUTILAL.NATION.3.