The Sun. — London, England, 1847-04-30 00:00:00

~!` V • • / RAILWAY COMMITTEES. HOUSE OF COMNIONS.-(YESTERDAY.) GROUP YT. 31TRIt AND yzovrz, AND EXETER, TNOVII., AND DORCHESTER. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) Captain Buller, tithe and copyhold commissioner, and ma gistrate of the county of Devon, and owner of considerable property at Wimple, in the neighbourhood of Exeter, was also called to give evidence in support of the proposed line. D. B. Davey, merchant of Topsham, also deposed to the beneficial effect to be derived from the construction of the direct route to Exeter. _ . The Committee adjourned at four o'clock till twelve to morrow. GROUP XIII. The Committee to whom the following Bills have been referred met this morning in Room 33; Mr. Buller, M.P., in the chair. Ipswich and Bury St. Edmunds (Extension to Yarmouth). Lowestoft Railway and Harbour (Alteration near Needham). Norfolk Railway (Branch from Wymondham to the Norwich Extension of the Ipswich and Bury St. Edmunds Railway, near Diss). Norfolk Railway (Yarmouth Extension). Norfolk Railway (Thetford to Lowestoft Railway, 84c., with Branch to Halesworth.) The first line proceeded with was the IPSWICH AND BURY ST. EDVITTICDS (=- TENSION TO inastaviouss). Mr. J ai xs opened the case for the promoters, in the g ham—He said the line was ab sence of Mr. Sergeant Wran promoted by the Eastern Union Railway, and that it would start f ro m a point to the north of Diss, on the line of the Eastern Union between Stowmarket and Norfolk, w hi c h was passed last year, and which is now in the course of construction. It would then run by Harleston, Bungay, Beccles, across the Lowestoft Railway, to Yarmouth, where an independent station would be erected at Southtown, another station being much required by the inhabitants of the town. The distance between Yarmouth and London would be greatly reduced. After glancing at the proceedings which had been taken in Parliament, with respect to affording railway communication to the district, he proceeded to say that the length of the line would be 32 miles, 1 furlong, and fchain; that it would cost 460,000/, a nd that as the country was extremely facile for the construction of a railway, owing to its flatness, the line would be nearly a surface one, and, therefore, presented no engineer ing difficulties. The scheme of the Norfolk Company would commence on the Norfolk line at Thetford, and run by Diss to Beccles, almost along the route of the line for which he (Mr. James) appeared ; it would then strike off at that point, and form a junction again with the Norfolk line at Reedham, and the cost would be 760,0004 and it would be for the Com mittee to say whether they would consent, in the present state of the money market, to the expenditure of so large a sum when nearly the same objects could be obtained for 460,0001. The first witness examined was Mr. Costerton, a merchant, of Bradwell House, Great.Yar month, who stated that the line would be of the greatest advantage to the district which it was proposed to traverse ; that the trade of Yarmouth required an additional and an independent station, and that the present station could not be extended to meet this want owing to the difficulty which would be experienced in getting the necessary land. The station being on the west side of the river, and the river being crossed and the groups intersected by tramroads, great ac commodation would be afforded. The population of Yar mouth was 27,849. Mr. MIREENVETITER (who appears for the Norfolk Com pany) intimated that those for whom he appeared were ready to admit the necessity of a line through the district; in fact, it would be his duty to show that such a line was required. The CHAIRMAN said it would be necessary to adduce some evidence to show that such a line was required. Cott.,el would of course use their discretion, and not adduce unne cessary evidence. Several witnesses, well acquainted with Yarmouth, gave evidence in favour of the line, and detailed minutely its local superiority over the line of the Norfolk Company. Mr. Cobel, a gentleman connected with the Yarmouth Custom-house, said ships came to Yarmouth from all parts of the world with the exception of Asia; that the imports and exports were rapidly on the increase, and that the feel ing of the town was decidedly in favour of a station at Southtown. For cattle it would be particularly useful. Cross-examined by Mr. CORRY—Cattle might be put on the trams, and so conveyed to the stations for transmission to their destination. Mr. Jackson, soap manufacturer, of Yarmouth, said last year he manufactured 500 tons of soap. He sent a great quantity to the district traversed by the proposed line, and for that purpose he had found the present station very de fective, and the cause of much delay, on account of the want of sufficient accommodation. By a more direct line and an additional station his trade would be increased. He understood that the new station of the Norfolk Company, on the site of Paget's brewery, was intended to be a passenger station, so that it would not cause much additional goods accommoda tion at the present station. There was a general feeling in Yarmouth in favour of a station like that of the proposed line. He should send his goods to the district from it. Adjourned until to-morrow. GROUP XVI. HERTFORD AND RITCHIIir. The Committee met at the usual hour. Evidence was given as to the injury which would be caused to the proper ties of Mr. A. Smith, Mr. Adcock, and other landowners, by the construction of the proposed line. Mr. R. Stephenson, engineer to the Eastern Counties and Midland Railways, was examined at considerable length in favour of the Eastern Counties scheme. The construction of this line by the Eastern Counties Company would enable the Midland Company, in connexion with that line, to compete with the Great Northern Railway for the traffic between the north and the metropolis. The cross-examination of Mr. Stephenson had not con cluded when the Committee adjourned till 12 to-morrow. GROUT XVIII. CHELTENHAM AND OXFORD. The Committee, comprising the Earl of Lincoln, in the chair, Captain Jones, the Hon. Mr. Smythe, Mr. M. J. O'Connell, and Sir Walter James, met this morning at twelve o'clock. Mr. ALEXANDER, Q.C., opened at very considerable length on behalf of the owners of property, insisting chiefly on the loss and inconvenience which would be experienced by the people of Cheltenham by the abstraction of the water in the sand bed in the first place, and from the ul timate derangement of its flow. ,The Learned Gentleman intimated, in the course of his observations, that he meant to call witnesses. Among the witnesses which he should cite would be a gentleman who was engaged by Sir R. Mur chison to edit a second edition of his geological works so far as Cheltenham was concerned. There were a number of other eminent geologists, he said, whom he should also call, and concluded a long and elaborate speech with expressing his conviction that their evidence would overpower that of Mr. Brunel. The Committee adjourned at four o'clock. GROUP XX. LONDON AND NORTH-WESTERN (XENIX.- WORTH AND LEAMINGTON ENLARGE- ATZINT). (Continnod from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) Mr. MACAULEY stated that the object of this Bill was to connect the Coventry and Leamington line with the Rugby and Leamington line in the latter tows, and to lay down a second line of rails between Leamington and Coventry. The Bill also included a short line from Kenilworth to Bake well, giving Warwick and Leamington access to the Birm ingham and Derby line at Hampton. 'f he rest of the day was occupied with general evidence in favour of the scheme. The Committee adjourned at the usual hour, till twelve o'clock to-morrow. GROUP XXI. The Select Committee appointed to consider the merits of the Bills comprised in this group re-assembled at the usual hour this morning; Sir James Graham in the chair. BIRMINGHAM AND STOUR VALLEY (No. I). Mr. Stephenson was cross-examined at some length by Mr. Sergeant KIYGLAKE, on behalf of the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company, but his evidence in chief re mained unshaken. The Committee then adjourned, the next witness to be examined being engaged in another Committee. GROUP XXII. This Committee met for the first time to-day in Room No. 27. Members present, Mr. H. Drummond (chairman), Lord Charles Fitzroy, Mr. Christopher, Sir J. M`Taggart, and Sir J. Tyrell. The Bills submitted to the Committee were the following: Newport, Abergavenny, and Hereford Railway Deviations. Newport, Abergavenny, and Hereford Railway (Extension to Taff Vale Railway). Gloucester and Hereford Railway and Canal Purchase. The Committee proceeded to take the NEWPORT, ABERGAVENNY, AND HERE wan (EXTENSION TO T &PP VALE). Mr. CocKaunx, Q.C., opened the case for the promoters, and then proceeded to call evidence in favour of the scheme. • The Committee then adjourned. GROUP XXIII. The Committee met at twelve, in Room Bin the New Houses; Mr. Mackinnon in the chair. SOUTH WALES (DEVIATIONS). Evidence was continued this morning in favour of the two or three deviations at Llanelly, Margam, &c., which were of comparatively small importance. Counsel appeared for Mr. Chambers and other opposing proprietors on the different branches, and cross-examined the witnesses. The room was cleared, and parties on being admitted were told that the preamble of the Bill had been proved, and the Committee had also decided that classes for the compensation of Mr. Chambers and the lessees should be inserted. The Committee then adjourned. XXVI. The Committee met this GROUP morning at twelve; Lord Harry 'Vane in the chair. (EAT VrESIVERN (BRANCHES TO STAXIMS AND EGBAM). The Committee were employed immediately after their sitting with evidence for private propri e t ors in opposition to the line. Counsel then addressed the Committee, for the South western, against the Bill; and Mr. Austin replied. The adjourned t Comillmit tee twelve to-morrow, at the conclusion of Mr. Austin's address, GROUP 'XXVIII. EASTERN COUNTIES (S PALDING To NEWAILIE). (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) Mr. Smyth put in a section to show how the alteration might be accomplished. There would be one tunnel, which would be aproached by a cutting of sixty feet in depth. The other cuttings would vary from twelve to forty-three feet. There were several gr,- dients, varying from 1 in 100 to 1 n 132, and, pr.acti i c.ally, the difference of power required to overcome gradients of lin 100 and lin 200 was two-thirds. With respect to stations, he believed that after the contest was over, there would be a variety of interests, and the Eastern Counties line crossed the Great Northern near enough at Spald ing to come into a common station. They crossed the Ambergate line at Sleaford, where the same convenience might be obtained. The total estimate is 620,0001., the real expense of the road being 580,0001., leaving a margin of 40,000/., which he deemed to be quite sufficient for stations and other contingencies. The earthworks would be -115,000/. ; the tunnelling 55,000/., at 60/. a yard; the masonry for bridges and culverts, 42,000/. ; the permanent way, 215,000/. ; level crossings, 40,000/. ; maintenance of permanent way for one year, 9,000/.; purchase of land, 54,0001., and contingencies, 40,0001., and he had then a, TIIP SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 30, 1847. further margin of 40,0001. In addition to this, there was a power to borrow 217,0001. There would be several bridges, and that over the Trent at Newark he laid at 10,000/. more, al though, if the alteration were made which he designed, it might possibly cost 3,0001. or 4,0001. more, but this was provided for in the sum allowed for contingencies. They intended to pass the Great Northern line at the distance of two miles and a furlong south of Newark. He had given no instructions to the land valuers to take the land required for stations; that was to come out of the contingencies. For land and stations the estimate was about 1,0001. a mile, but this was exclusive of the land for the vtations. The Great Northern estimate was 420,0002., whicd' included the land for the stations, and that was to be set against the 62,000/. of his ewn line. 4 " To the CHAIRMAN'S intimation, that there ought to be some convenience provided for the farmers of Lincoln's Heath, Mr. Borthwick replied that the station there would be near the spot where the Rottergate-road crosses the line at right angles, at about 26% miles from Spalding. This he would I do even at the expense of making the necessary roads for asP r o ' lowoa h. as no to d i Captain ll beffi c i u n A l t a RRIS yill the witness replied that he appre hendedst cutting,a r t i n a g a d trains he cited a edthe site which Euston-square station as an instance. On Mr. ADA3IS'S further cross-examination, it appeared that this Rottergate-road was nothing more than a bridle road, but he would construct a road from the spot where the balance level fell to the highway. He would, however, have another station at Byard's leap, about a mile further on. To Captain HARRIS, Mr. Borthwick replied that he thought about three stations between Newark and Sleaford for pas sengers beside three additional ones for goods. The other side would have about the same number. -- --- ----- -....... Mr. Smyth was re-examined on the point of the station in the cutting, and after some further evidence the case of the promoters was closed, and the Committee adjourned. have an independent connexion with the south and east of En gland. Cross-examined by Mr. Cccnnuax—He seriously believed that the Kilmarnock traffic could be forced round by Glasgow, if the Caledonian Company threw impediments in the way of the Dumfries and Carlisle Rail way, by working the southern branch at Spring field. They could also interfere with the traffic at Annan by altering the,hours of their train. He would not, if the position of things were different, recommend the Com pany for which he acted to do so. He did not know what the directors of the Caledonian might de. He imputed no thing to the engineers of that company. The matter was, he believed, altogether in the hands of the directors. As between Glasgow and Carlisle, he believed that with the same engine power and the same load (that was, the engines at present employed) the Cale donian could not master their gradient of one in seventy-five at all. With engines suitable to that stiffer gradient the Caledonian would arrive at Glasgow in that shorter time, which might be represented by twenty-four miles of distance. Re-examined by Mr. TALBOT—He considered that the possession of the power of passing under the main line of the Caledonian at Springfield would materially influence the interests of the Dumfries Company in respect to the southern traffic. The possession of this power would be a safety-valve—if he might use the expression—for the protec tion of the public interests. Mr. Hawkshaw, C.E., examined by Mr. TALBOT—Had examined the relative lines before the Committee, and engi neeringly considered there was no great difference between them. He was engineer of the Manchester and Leeds Company, and he had observed the effect of compe- tition in that district, which was covered by many rival interests. He thought that the public would be better served if the country were in possession of the Dumfries Company, and he could see no object the Caledonian Com pany had in asking for this branch (especially as they already effected a junction with the Newcastle and Carlisle Railway at Carlisle), unless for the purpose of placing an effectual lock upon the operations of the Dumfries Company. Cross-examined by Mr. COCKBURN—Had no interest in any Scotch lines, and was retained to go down to Scotland to give evidence in favour of this line if he could do so.— (Laughter.) He had before been retained for several com panies, and refused to give evidence in their favour. He did not think it fair to state those lines. He had lived long enough in the country traversed by these lines to see that the Dumfries was the superior line. He had been employed and was then employed, as acting and consulting engineer by dif ferent railways, not mere offshoots of the Manchester and Leeds Railway. He had not been examined in all the different Committees in this House last year. He had been examined in many, as other engineers had been. Re-examined by Mr. TALricrr—die knew many cases in which an opposition line had been half - ruined by t he restric tions placed upon them by rival lines, which then pur chased them at half the cost of construction. The Bolton and Preston was one in point. He kad invariably met I,lr. Stephenson, Mr. Locke, Mr. Brunel and other eminent engineers, in all the Committee-rooms that he had attended, and they were retained in the same way that he was. By Mr. TOLLEMACIIE—He considered that it would be de cidedly for the interest of the public that this line should be made to Brampton. This closed the case for the promoters. Mr. COCKBURN requested that he might not be desired to open his case that evening, and The Committee, therefore, adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow. allotted to him, and which he still retained, having paid the deposit, &c. It was afterwards proposed that he should be the chairman of the new company, but this he declined. on account of his Parlianien Lary engagoeuen ts ; but he n ii ima t e l y c , n , ente d to accept the office, provided Mr. Shaw was appointed the vice-chairman, and undertook to discharge the duties of that office. Prospectuses were subsequently issued, and a provi sional committee appointed. Me capital proposed to be raised was 600,000/., in shares of 20/. each, upon which a deposit of two guineas a share was to be paid. The shares were duly allotted, and the amount paid up upon them was 52,000/., which was paid into the bands of the bankers. The necessary arrangements were then made for obtaining an Act of Parliament to establish the corn pany. The Bill was thrown out owing to the opposition of two rival lines, whereupon it was resolved that 1/. a share should be returned to the subscribers, the accounts investigated, and the whole concern wound up. On the 28th of November an article was published in the Rail way Mmes, designating the whole scheme as a bubble, and stating Mr. Muntz to have been the chairman of a most disgraceful scheme ; and in a subsequent number of that journal it was stated that the: Members for Birmingham had been most unfortunate in their railway speculations, and had not been particularly scrupulous in their pro ceedings, which had stamped their characters with indelible disgrace. Mr. Muntz had placed his name at the head of a bubble company, and which had induced other parties to join it. Mr. Muntz in his affidavit denied that the company in question was a bubble one, and said that it was formed bond fide; and also denied the material allegations contained in the libel. Mr. Justice COLIRIDGE said he doubted whether the facts were sufficient to call for such an interference, but would, nevertheless, grant a rule, as it might lead to some explana tion or disavowal by the defendants. Rule to show cause granted. THE QUEEN V. PHILIP HENRY NIUNTZ AND OTHERA. Mr. COCKBURN said he was instructed on the part of cer tain shareholders of the Birmingham and Oxford Junction Railway Company to apply to his Lordship for a rule, calling upon the defendants, and the directors generally of the above company, to show cause why a writ of mandamus should not issue commanding them to elect by ballot four of their number who were to retire from the direction, and also convene a general meeting of the shareholders of the com pany to elect four other persons to supply their places. The Learned Counsel proceeded to state that the case was one that had already undergone very considerable argument in the Court of Chancery, the result of which was that the parties were directed to apply to a court of common law for the relief which they sought. He then detailed at great length the proceedings that have taken place in the Court of Chancery, the particulars of wl;ich have so recently been published that a recapitulation of them is unnecessary on the;present occasion. L'is LORDSHIP grantea a rule to show cause. RAILWAY SHARE MARKETS. LIVERPOOL, Arm' 29. STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sale; are—Birmingham and Dud ley, 5 p.—Birmingham and Oxford, p.—Chester and Birkenhead, 44 1 / 2 —Eastern Counties, York Extension, 1 1 / t dis.—East Lancashire (late B. and P.), 1% dis.—Ditto, New (scrip),par—Edinburgh and Glasgow, Quarters,l7 l / 2 —Liver - pool, Crosby, and Southport, 1 p.—London and North- Western, 171%—London, Manchester, and Birmingham, Quarters (C), 4 7 / 8 p.—London, Brighton, and South Coast, 51 1 4—Manchester and Leeds, Fifths, 4% p.—Ditto, 321. Shares (late Extensions), 1 / 2 p.—Ditto, Fifths (late West Riding Union), p.—Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincoln shire, Eighths, 214 dis.—Manchester and Southampton, 1 1 4 dis.—Midland Stock, 115—Ditto, New, 2 p.—Newcastle and Berwick, New, 1% p.—North Staffordshire, 1% p.—North- Western, 2 dis.—Preston and Wyre, Halves (A). 3% p. Shrewsbury and Hereford, 112 dis.—Shrewsbury and Chester (late N.W.M.), New, 21 p.—Shrewsbury and Birmingham (B), 1 / 2 dis.—South-Eastern, 36 1 4—Ditto, New, No. 4, ls. 3d. dis. MANCHESTER, APRIL 29. STOCK' EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Ambergate, Notting ham, and Boston, PA dis.—Birmingham and Oxford Junc tion, 7% p.—Eastern Counties, York Extension, 1 1 4 dis.— East Lancashire (late B. and P.), New, I%—Ditto, New (scrip). 1 / 8 dis.—East Lincolnshire, I %—Fleetwood, Preston, and West Riding Junction, 1% dis.—Leeds and Thirsk, 514 dis.—Ditto, Preferentials, p.—Leeds, Dewsbury, and Manchester, par—Ditto, Branches, Halves, 1 dis.—London and North-Western, New, 9% p.—Ely and Huntingdoa, New, par—Manchester and Leeds, Halves (H. and S.), ixs p.—Ditto, 321. Shares (late Extension), 5-16 .p.—Ditto, Fifths (late West Riding Union), 1 4 p-----North Stafford shire, 9-16—Oldham Alliance, 1 4 dis.—Preston an d W yre , Halves (A), 3% p. ropsh int Union, I %—South-Eastern and Dover, 36—Ditto, No. 4, 3-16 dis. LEEDS, Aram 29. STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Ambergate, Notting ham, and Boston, 114 dis.—East Lancashire, New, 1% dis. —Ditto, New Scrip, ls. dis.—East and West Yorkshire, 16s. dis.—East Lincolnshire, 1% p.—Great .Northern, I tg dis. —Leeds and Bradford, 42 1 p.—Leeds and Thirsk, dis. —Ditto, Preference, 7s. p.—London, Brighton, and South Coast, Fifteenths, 2s. p.—Malton and Driflield Junction, 10s. dis.—Manchester and Leeds, Halves (late Hud. and Sheff.), 10s. p.—Ditto, 321. Shares (late Extensions), 10s. 6d. p.—Ditto, West Riding Union, 9s. n. p.—Midland, Pre ference, 1% p.—Newcastle and Berwick, New, 1% p.— North British, Thirds, 114 p.—Ditto, Quarters (late Carlisle Branch), 15s. p.—Ditto, Extension (scrip), 7s. p.—North Staffordshire, 325. p.—Northern Counties Union, 2% n. dis. —North-Western, 305. dis. NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE, APRIL 29. STOCK EXCHANGIC.—The sales are—Caledonian, New, lls. Gd. dis.—Eastern Counties, York Extension, 14 dis.—New castle and Berwick, 5 p.—Ditto (North Shields Purchase), 29 3 4—North British, 31. SHEFFIELD, Armr. 29. STOCK EXCIIANGE.—The sales are—East Lincolnshire, 1 1 ,4 p.—Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire (Sheffield and Lincoln), 311 3 dis.—North Staffordshire, p.—North- Western, 395. c. dis. EDINBURGH, APRIL 28. STOCK EXCIIANGE.—The sales are—Ayr and Galloway, 398. 6d.—Caledonian, New, 378. 6d.—Dundee and Norther❑ Junction, 30s.—East Lothian Central, 395. 6d.—Edinburgh, Leith, and Granton, Quarters, 11s.—Edinburgh and North ern, 17%—Ditto, New, 565. 6d.—Ditto, Newport, 6%—Ditto, New, 35s.—Edinburgh and Perth, 395. Ditto, Halves, 12s. 3d.—Great Northern, 52s.—North British, Quarters, 82s.— Ditto, New Quarters (scrip), 19s.—Ditto, Thirds, 48s.— Scottish Central, 24,4—East Indian, 3e. GLASGOW, APRIL 28. STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Caledonian, New, 375. 6d —East Indian, 2s. 9d.—East Lothian Central, 395. 6d. Edinburgh and Glasgow, 701.—Edinburgh arid Perth (New Co.), 39s.—Ditto, Halves, 12s.—Glasgow, Kilmarnock, and Ayr, 581.—Ditto, Halves, No. 2, 61. ls.—Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle, 51.—Glasgow and Greenock, 15 1 / 2 —Kilmarnock and Ayr Direct, 275. 6d.—Manchester and Southampton, 16s. —North British, Thirds, 48s. 6d.—Ditto New Quarters (scrip), 18s. 6d.—Paisley, Barrhead, and Hurlet, 525. 6d.—York and Newcastle, New, 1311—Ditto, Prefer ence , 6%—G lasgow and Garnkirk, 391. DESTRUCTIVE FIRE NEAR EXETER. giving information of EXETEEt, Amin. 28.—0 n Tuesday after noon a messenger out in the village of s ty b n' out four miles distant, s arrived t Canon, the l n a o r alarming fire h - i fi c r h e offices h is av i s n i t n t t u g h a i t b s e r d o c ke i close to the Bristol and Exeter Ralway . The firemen and engines immediately hastened to the scene, to render all the assistance in their power; and bEsides the very efficient corps of the West of England and Sun Offices, the engine of Sir T. D. Acland, Bart., M.P., of Killerton Park, scarcely two miles from Stoke, was in attendance. From inquiries made on the spot, we find that thirty-two houses have been completely gutted. Stoke Canon h a small village, contain. ing (in the parish) about 500 inhabitants, and sixty dwel lings; the destruction, therefore, of more than half the dwellings, and the making houseless the majority of the poor and uninsured residents, is a calamity which we are justified in designating as awful in the extreme. The train which leaves Paddington at half-past seven in the morning passes at the back of Stoke about ten minutes after three is the afternoon, and reaches Exeter at twenty minutes past three. A cinder fromthe engine propelling this dire event, train‘evhast„ for,soon it is generall) supposed, the cause of this afterr the train had passed, the thatch of a linhay, belonginG , to a person named Barris, not a land yard from the was discovered to be in flames. It was soon extinguished, but not soon enough to prevent its communicating with a house occupied by a Mr. Hunt, who was confined to his bed, and was with difficulty saved from a painful and horrible death. The wind was blowing hard from the south-west, and the fire extended in two directions, the one being easterly towards the main street, and the other northerly towards the Brampford Spike road, which crosses the line of railway a little nearer to the Hele station. At the corner of that road stands a house occupied by Mr. Greenslade, a cattle dealer, which seems to have escaped in a most singular manner, encompassed as it must have been by the destroying element, which, spreading diagonally, reached the main street, and caught the houses on the opposite side. Tae New Inn. the tithe barn, school-house, and other building; extending to the church, were soon in a blaze, including the dwelling-house of Mr. Haycroft. In Mr. Ha croft's house 100 packs of wool were totally consumed. In the easterly direction simultaneously, the flames were doing equal damage, destroying most rapidly the King's Arms, ten or a dozen cottages, the house of the Rev. Mr. Knight; that of a lady named Craig, who keeps a seminary ; the vicarage occupied by the Rev. W. T. Naple ton Penoyre (whose furniture was consumed, together with the communion plate, which had only been removed there from the church the previous evening, " for safety,") and finally the outhouse of the rector, the Rev. Mr. Bond, where they were at length subdued. Notwithstanding the vast amount of misery which must inevitably attend this severe visitation, there is one abundant source of thankfulness and congratulation in the fact, that not one life has fallen a sacrifice to !the conflagration, which, breaking out at so early an hour, found the inhabitants more prepared than if it had come upon them in the waste and dead of night. Half-past three o'clock in the afternoon is said to be the time when it commenced, and it was not got under till nine in the evening. This morning, when we saw the ruins, they were still smoking, and in some parts burn ing, and every now and then the fall of a wall, from the violence of the wind, showed the temerity of venturing too near their unsupported, gaunt, and threatening heights. The engines were on the spot, and playing on the fire within an hour of the outbreak, with a plentiful supply of water from the river Esse, which runs close by; but the roofs being with out exception of thatch, and the wind very high and gusty, the check was only slight, and their influence for a very long time unperceivable. The damage is estimated at 1,500/. The property in fee belongs chiefly to the Dean and Chapter, and was mostly insured by the lessees, though a heavy loss will unquestionably f a ll on the poor people w hose goods have been either damaged o r burnt. ENTERTAINMENT AT THE M A NSION -HOUSE. — On Wednesday the Lord Mayor gave a grand' en tertainment to her Majesty's Jud ges. A mongst the guests ' were the Lord Chief Justice of the Queen's Bench, Mr. Baron Alderson, Mr. Baron Rolfe, Mr. Justice Erle, Mr. Justice Williams; the Attorney-General, Sergeants Manning, Lawes, Shoe, Allen, Bain, Wilkins, Sir H./ Nicolas; Aldermen Sirj C. S. Hunter, Lucas, Thompson, Si r P . Laurie, Johnson, Wood, Hooper, Sir J. Duke, Musgrov e , W. Hunter , H. Hug hes, Sidney, Moon; the Sheriff s o f London and their ladies; the Chamberlain, Mr. Commo n Pl ea d er L oc k, the City Solicitor, Mr. Clarkson, Mr. Ballantine, &c. THE MONEY CRISIS.—BIRMINGHAM, THURSDAY. —A meeting of the bankers, merchants, m anufacturers, and traders of the town, convened by advertisement, signed " Thomas Clutton Salt," is appointed to be held in the large committee-room of the T own H a ll , to - morro w night, " for the purpose of advising on the present derangement of our monetary system, and on the best means of averting the calamities which have invariably been the consequences of such a state of affairs." The attendance, there is no doubt, will be extremely numerous. It has been announced in the City that a public meeting of merchants, manufacturers, and others will beheld at an early day to consider the p r esent monetary condition of the country and the operation of the Bank Charter Bill. Late arrivals from the Unit e d States bring intel ligence of the death of Mrs. Davis, of Boston, mother of Mrs. Bancroft, the wife of the American Minister. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS. April 29. 7. - ..;up CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Vt Vui sack at Five o'clock. MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS. Messengers from the Commons brought up certain Bills. GOVERNMENT PLAN OF EDUCATION. Earl FITZ WILLIAM presented a number of peti tions from Rotherham, York, Doncaster, Thirsk, and numerous other places, in favour of the Government plan of education. HEALTH OF TOWNS. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition, signed by several medical gentlemen, in favour of the Health of Towns Bill. GROUP XXXIII. LEEDS, DEWSBURY, AND MANCHESTER (EXTENSION TO WAXEPIELD, &c). (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) The Committee was occnpied till its close with evidence on the advantages the line would confer on the district, after which they adjourned till to-morrow, at twelve o'clock. GROUP XLVIII. CALEDONIAN, AND COAT- BRIDGE (BRANCH to GLASGOW STATION). (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) The witness was cross-examined at some length by Mr. FORSYTH, on the part of the Leith and Clyde Canal, and Mr. AlmrtEws, on behalf of the Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway, with the object of showing that -there would be danger to the navigation in the proposed going under it by the line, and to the tunnel of the Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway, in its going over it. No material point, however, was elicited. The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow at twelve o'clock. GROUP L. The Committee met this morning at twelve ; present, Mr. Banker (chairman), Mr. Carew, Sir Benjamin Hall, Mr. Hind ley, and Mr. Henley. GLASGOW, KILMARNOCK, AND ARDROS- SAN (DEVIATIONS AND AMENDMENTS). Colonel More, cross-examined, said he had been a witness on the line from Kilwinning to Glasgow. He thought the proposed branch to Beith would be of advantage to the dis tribution of limestone from Leighton, the centre of his pro perty, over the district to the iron-works, and for the accommodation of the Beith passengers to Glasgow. He did think the present accommodation was very indifferent, the station being a mile and and a half from the town, down a very steep hill. The road was kept in very good order. The difficulties were so great that he did not think skill could overcome the steepness of the hill on which the town was built. The proposed station of the Ardrossan line was to be in the town, also on a hill, but not so steep as the other. Last year, he stated that several of the largest iron manufacturers—Mr. Baird, of Gartshelly, Mr. Dixon, of Govan, and the Glengarnock Iron Company—had appeared to lease the minerals on his property. Hematite was ex pected to have been found both on his property and that of the Messrs. Caldwell, but they were disappointed, and the applicants did not follow up their first application. James Picken gave evidence in favour of the Fennick branch. He believed the general feeling of the people to be in favour of the Ardrossan branch, which advanced to High Fennick, while the other stopped at Low Fennick. A great deal of dairy produce was sent from the district to Kilmar nock, Glasgow, and Dunlop. He expected the district would be accommodated with coals from Loudon. Minerals were, he believed, found near Fennick on estates belonging to Lord Hastie, the proprietor of the coal-field at Loudon. John Moffat, civil engineer, deposed that he knew the country about the line well. He believed if coals were wanted up about Stewarton and the way to Glasgow, they would most likely be sent by the Ardrossan Railway, because they would pass over only one company's line. Ardrossan har bour offered great accommodation for the shipment of coals ; many were shipped, but there were not enough, because many vessels were obliged to leave unloaded, and others prevented coming, by the want of coals. The distance to Paisley was shorter by the Ardrossan Railway. Sir B. HALL now intimated that the Committee felt satis fied with the amount of evidence produced on behalf of the scheme. _ _ _ _ Counsel on both sides agreed to leave both Bills in the hands of the Committee, Sergeant Murphy to address them to-morrow at their meeting. The Committee then adjourned. GROUP LI. GLASGOW, DUMFRIES, AND CARLISLE, AND GLASGOW, PAISLEY, ICII.MAR NOCK, AND AYR (NO. I). (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) Mr. Knight, cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant Aluurtur— The Act of Parliament gave an unlimited power to charge any sum not exceeding 2d. per ton. but he did not think that that amount would be charged. He should think lid. sufficient, and would recommend them to take that sum. He had no doubt that there was sufficient coal n the direct line through Ayrshire to supply them for the next fifty years. They had ironstone and other minerals in abundance. He did not remember the amount of minerals carried the first or the following years, but it did not exceed that on all other railways existing. The amount of traffic in the first year was .5001. or 6004 while in a few years after, in 1845, the return for the carriage of minerals was 12,000/. He had no doubt, that if they carried a large quantity, say 100,000 tons, of coal from Canobie to Kirkcudbright, they could afford to carry it at 3s. 4d. per ton. He did not know what quantity would really be carried. He did think that 18,000 tons would pay for wear and tear of the carriages, but he would not say that it would give a profit. He did not think that it was absolutely necessary, for the safety of the public, that traffic carriages should be provided with springs. The cost of keeping up the way was less on the Ayr than on the Greenock Railways, and the latter had carriages with springs, while the former had them without. Re-examined by Sir T. Patuars—The railway had in duced a considerable export trade from the ports of Ayrshire, although the export trade of Maryport and its neighbouring ports still continued. Mr. Blythe, C.E.—The distance from Gretna to London by the North-Western system of railroad was 310 miles. He took the shortest route by the Trent Valley when he said thi. The distance from the same point by Newcastle was 329 'Liles. There were Bills before Parliament which would bring this down two or three miles. The gradients on the latter lines were better, because the summit of Shapfell was avoided. He knew the country between Hexham and Durham. The CHAIRMAN interposed, and said that the Committee would not receive evidence on lines not before them. Mr. Blythe's examination continued—The practical diffe rence in time between the two routes would be only some twenty minutes. The distance from Glasgow to Carlisle by the Caledonian Railway was 101 miles, while by the Dum fries Company it was 125 miles. The distance from Gretna to Peterborough by Rugby, on the North-Western lines, was 281 miles, while by the Newcastle it was only 253 miles. But there was a shorter distance by the Lancaster and Carlisle to Penrith, Appleby, York, Doncaster, and Newark, which was under the control of the London and North- Western. The distance by this line was 234 miles. The distance from York to Belfast by Gretna, Kirkcudbright, and Donaghadee would be 261 miles; while the distance by the London and North-Western, to Holy head, Dublin, and so to Belfast, would be 318 miles, 160 miles of which would be under the absolute control of the London and North-Western. The water carriage from Holy head to Dublin was 64 miles, the water carriage from Kirkcudbright was also 64 miles; but if this line were ex tended to Port Patrick, the water carriage would be only 19 miles. He had, in conjunction with Mr. Miller, laid down the line to Brampton. He had also laid out the Hawick and Carlisle Railway, which would have been the shortest com munication between the Canobie-fields and Colchester. He knew the Caledonian schemes as well as their own, and he thought, on the whole, that the Dumfries Company's Ex tension to Brampton was the more preferable, as being shorter, and having better gradients. These superior gra dients were obtained by taking the line 240 yards from the town of Brampton. The Canobie branch, promoted by the Dumfries Company, was three-quarters of a mile shorter than the Caledonian, but the latter had a better gradient than the former. Mr. TOLLRMACHE asked if, in the event of the Dumfries Company not getting their line, the North British would take it up? Mr. PATTEN said that they would state their case to the Committee, and also lay before them their proposition for supplying a communication between Hawick and Carlisle. Mr. Blythe's examination continued—The sharpest curve on their line was three furlongs at the point of junction with the Newcastle and Carlisle Railway. They had also two curves of almost two furlongs within the Canobie district. The estimate of the works, which would include the price of land, was amply sufficient for a double line of rails ex tending above 25 miles. The cost per mile was about 16,0001., and the total cost would amount to about 420,0001. Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant MURPHY—He did not know that it would be likely that heavy traffic would be sent from Belfast round to Dublin and Holyhead, and so to Fork.—(Laughter.) He did not therefore think that the examination on that point was preposterous. He had heard Mr. Kennedy's evidence with respect to the mode of transit for fat and half-fed cattle. He thought that the obvious route would be that given by the North-Western Company, provided that company charged such rates as would pre vent competition from ether companies, which were not so favourably circumstanced. With respect to the branch to Brampton, he acknowledged that the Dumfries Railway was more distant by 240 yards. He declared most certainly that the Dumfries Company had not a joint interest with the North British Company. The only connexion that existed between them was, that Mr. Miller was principal engineer of both lines. Even if this branch to Brampton and Milton I.,yacircuit theyuit of were granted to the Dumfries Company, and they did not do justice to th e pu bli c , th e C a ledonian would interpose a check, because e o ff nl e y ct f e o d ur a m j i u le nc . tion with the Newcastle and .. ar Ii sle, and co u ld th us carry s passengers to the same points By Mr. RAIISILAW, on the part of the Earl of Carlisle — The Dumfries line did not intersect one of the streets of 1,0 1 ,. 1 k r e . Brampton. a J n o d l John e jointly hiller, were . ago to survey the C "E., examined by Mr. LfDDELL—Mr. employed some six or seven years hem between Glasgow and Carlisle, and , in 1841 the Railw ay Commissioners caused an investigation to be made into therunsui line, made considerable to Edinburgh and alteration with respect to the party, in regard t o hjeTrct. The Caledonian Corn- Glasgow. lie reported that fork Glasgow was that proposed by th e be st single line to If the Caledonian Railway wererebiNithsdale Company. branch to Gretna, he considered that it would za u r i ed with the an inconvenience on the public, because it would, in entailing a tt a ching a branch to a branch. A great obstruct'iperfl wouldact,be be offered to through p assen g ers, and that would be increa se d in the case of the local p assen g ers. He thou g ht that it would be for the interest of the Caledonian Railway Com pany to force the Kilmarnock traffic round by Glasg ow , instead of permitting it to be transmitted on the Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle Railway. He considered that, for the purposes of fully developing the traffic on this line, it should LAW INTELLIGENCE. COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH, April 29. (Sittings in Banco, before Lord Chief Justice DENMAN, and a full Court.) JURISDICTION OF COURTS IN THE CHANNEL ISLANDS. Mr. CROWDER applied to this Court fir the discharge of John Brennan and Henry Gallan, two lads who had been sentenced to transportation by the Royal Court of Jersey for the period of seven years, on the ground that on the face of the return the Court possessed no authority to pass such a sentence. The Learned Counsel stated that the two boys had been tried before the Royal Court of Jersey for breaking into a baker's shop in the town of St. Helier, in that island, and stealing a quantity of sweetcake therefrom. The sentence was passed in the usual form, namely, that the prisoners should be transported to such place beyond the seas as her Majesty , or her Privy Council should direct and appoint, and the pri soners were re-conveyed to prison. Sir George Grey after wards sent his warrant for the removal of the prisoners to this country, and they were placed in custody in the Peni tentiary at Milbank. He had now to submit to their Lord ships that on the face of the return made there was no com petent authority in the island of Jersey to sentence any parties to transportation. He contended that, where sen tence of this kind was passed in any foreign countries, it was necessary that it should be shown on the face of the return that a proper authority existed to inflict such a sentence. No such authority appeared on the face of this return; and not only was it not shown that such authority really did exist, but there was every proof that it did not exist. A minute of Council had been framed with reference to the disposal of prisoners who should have been sentenced to transportation in these islands ; but that minute did not, nor could not constitute any authority to pass sentence. It merely pre-supposed the existence of such authority at the time that the minute was framed. The right to pass sentence of transportation did not exist by common law,—it was only conferred upon judges by Act of Parliament; and, therefore, unless it was passed under such Act of Parliament it was n,t only invalid, but against the law. Not one of the lets which had been passed with reference to this punishment had in any way any application to the courts in this island ; nor even under the ancient laws, upon which the island was formerly regulated, did any such authority exist. Any British subject who was committed to custody, in any gaol or prison, had surely the right of know ing upon what law or authority he was detained. It was not incumbent upon him to show that there was no authority to detain him, but it was incumbent upon those who deprived him of his liberty to show that they had a legal title to do so. No such right was shown on the part of the Baillie of the Royal Court of Jersey, and therefore as there was no means of reversing the judgment, the prisoners were entitled to their discharge. The Learned Counsel then proceeded to cite at some length several authorities in support of his view of the case. ➢fir. LUSH followed upon the same side, and contended that upon the face of such a return sufficient should be stated to enable the person detained, in case ha should be unjustly de tained, to found an action upon it. In this case the return was perfectly correct in the fact which it stated as to the sentence passed, but was silent as to the authority given to pass such a sentence, so that parties accused, although sen tenced by an authority which was not competent to pass sentence, could found no objection upon the return, inasmuch as the facts stated in it were perfectly true. Their Lordships were asked to infer the authority of the Royal Court of Jer sey to pass sentence, because they had actually passed it. Such a poposition would be a most dangerous one, if allowed to be valid. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL contended that the Court could not interfere with the judgment which had already been passed by a court of competent jurisdiction, although the parties accu , ed might be within their jurisdiction. Sup • pose the case of a person sentenced to banishment from Scotland, and while being removed for the execution of that sentence the vessel in which he was was wrecked within the jurisdiction of their court, having been sentenced by a court of competent jurisdiction, they could not interfere legally They could not order him to be remitted to the jurisdiction of the Court which sentenced him,nor could they discharge him with the sentence hanging over him. The only course that could be pursued with regard to the prisoner would be to show respect to the judgment passed upon him. If a person were sentenced in England, and ordered to be imprisoned in the county of Middlesex, that would not render his detention in the county of Essex an illegal one. A Court, having a competent jurisdiction to pass sentence, and the prisoner who had received that sentence having been brought over to this country, the absence of any statement as to the authority of the Court to pass sentence, upon the face of the return, ought not and could not constitute any right on the part of this Court to interfere with the sentence. The SOLICITOR-GCRERAL said, that if this precedent were admitted, there would exist a necessity for inquiring into the cases of many Scotch prisoners who were detained ia this country under sentence of the Courts of Scotland. The only method in which any such case could be brought under the notice of the Legislature was by petition to the Queen in Council; and, in the present case, where sentence had been passed by a competent Court, the same appeal, namely, by petition to the Queen in Council, must be adopted. L nder such circumstances, this Court would establish a very injurious precedent if it allowed the present application, and interfered with the sentence. Mr. HILL addressed the Court upon the same side. lie contended that by the sentence passed the prisoners were to be transported beyond the seas to such place as her Majesty should appoint. The prisoners were detained in Jersey until that pleasure was made known. The discretionary power was vested entirely in the Crown, and their detention any where until that pleasure was made known was merely a part of the sentence passed. A writ of habeas corpus might just as well apply in the case of a prisoner whose ultimate desti nation was not named for a long time after his sentence of transportation. His detention in that case, as well as in the present one, was merely a portion of the execution of the sentence. Mr. WADDINGTON having been heard upon the same side, Mr. CROWDER, in reply, urged that his objection with re ference to the powerof the Court of Jersy to pass sentence of transportation had not been answered. Mr. Justice ParrissoN said that the question was not one of error as to the judgment; it turned upon the power of de taining the prisoners in this country. Mr. CROWDER said, that under any circumstances his Learned Friend bad shown no authority by which these pri soners could be detained i❑ this country under a sentence passed by the foreign Court of Jersey, the laws of which'were unknown to this country, and also unrecognised. The sen tence was passed under the laws of Jersey, and the prisoner was found in this country, and how could any right to detain him be shown? The sentence of transportation was un known to the law unless created by Act of Parliament, and it had not been so created in Jersey. If a pri soner were brought before their Lordships under a sentence which condemned him to lose a limb, such a sentence not being known to the laws of this country, and being passed by a foreign court, would not be recognised, and the person would not be legally detained in this country. The Act, sth of Geo. IT., provided that when any sentence of transportation was passed by any court out of the United Kingdom, and within the limits of her Majesty's dominions, the prisoner should be sent over to England to be transported. His Learned Friend had laid great stress upon this provision, bat if there was no authority in the Royal Court of Jersey to pass sen tence of transportation, that Act could not apply. His Learned Friend the Attorney-General had assumed that the Court of Jersey possessed that authority, and had confined his arguments to the question as to the legality of the cus tody in this country. That was literally an assumption of the whole question ; for if it should be found that the Court had no jurisdiction, the Act could not apply. On these grounds he submitted to their Lordships, that the Court ought to entertain this application. If the Court possessed the power they ought to have stated it upon the face of the return, and as they had not done so, that return was invalid, and constituted no authority to hold the parties in custody in this country. There Lordships reserved their judgment. BAIL. COURT, April 29 (Before Mr. Justice COLERIDGE.) TIIE QUEEN V. BRAITHWAITE AND ANOTHER. Sir F. TIMMER applied to I.il Lordship for a rule calling upon Mr. John Braithwaite, tile proprietor, and Charles Wyman, the publisher, of the I?aitway Times, to show cause why a criminal information should not be filed against them for publishing a libel in that journal reflecting on the cha racter of George Frederick Muntz, Esq., M.P. for Birming ham. It appeared from the affidavits on which the Learned Counsel founded his motion, that in August, 1845, a meeting i-L haw as ; a .ahowileasehorideceiruestfedßitromaintgtehnadm. was conve ne d at B i rmingham to consider the propriety of S iZrm. forming sembled, by w h om ' u a nt rallw ay f rom t h ere to L e i cester, wh i c h meet i ng be carried out , proposedur6 that he agr ee d t o t a k e 100 c success of thief measur e gentlemen as tend the meeting, where he f oun d about six o and 80 weas resolved that domuaeltdd easonvinced was Mr. Muntz of the ulti mateshares in the om pany, which were accordingly EDUCATION. The NOBLE and LEARNED LonD:presented several pe titions for and against the Government scheme of edu cation. IRISH POOR-LAW. The same LEARNED LORD also presented a petition from the vestry of Liverpool. The petitioners stated that the number of Irish paupers had of late very rapidly increased ; that 180,000 had passed into Liverpool since the month of December last, according to documents of authority on the subject ; but these did not include in that number some 30,000 that had come over more recently. They further stated that of the 180,000 paupers 105,000 had remained in Liverpool in a state of perfect destitution, and with cases of very grievous disease among them, thus fostering the seeds of a very wide contagion in the town. They said that there had been not only a sudden increase of the population, but a sudden increase of 180,000 in 300,000—an increase of near two-thirds—in the course of four or five months. That affected the poor of the town more than any otherclass in society; and that class previous to this numbered 70,000 or 80,000, principally Irish Ro man Catholic paupers. The petitioners prayed that their Lordships would pass an Irish poor-law to facilitate the passing of Irish paupers from England to Ireland, and prevent the immigration of paupers from Ireland into England. He (Lord Brougham) wished, however, to guard his Noble Friend (Marquis of Lansdowne) oppo site against supposing that the petition was in favour of the present measure, for they further stated that they did not think the measure passed by the House of Com mons would at all ameliorate the condition of Liverpool —(Hear)—for the facilities of obtaining relief in England were so great, that Irish paupers would continue to flock into England. The Noble and Learned Lord said the opinion was founded on a vast number of documents drawn out by an authority who was of opinion that an Irish poor-law would increase the influx of paupers. He, therefore, deemed it his duty to present the petition. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that the condi tion of the manufacturing districts had been b roug h t under the consideration of her Majesty's Government, but he was not prepared to say what steps if any, would be taken in reference to the subject. After a few words from Lord ASHBURTON, which were inaudible. Lord MONTEAGLE was surprised that the subject had not sooner been brought under consideration. Lord BROUGHAM—Do they pray for a poor-law? Lord MONTEAGLE—They do; but not such a one as this.—(hear, hear.) The Earl of WICKLOW said that it was necessary to remind the people of Liverpool, that although they suffered so much from Irish distress, they ought to be aware of the immense influx of wealth which this very distress caused to flow into that port ; if they compared the poor-rates with the enormous sums which flowed into their coffers, from every part of the world, for corn, they would find the latter greatly to preponderate. After a few words from the Earl of WESTMEATH, Lord BROUGHAM said that his Noble Friend was quite mistaken in the supposition that he entertained, for he meant to reserve himself for the discussion of the poor-law. He quite agreed with his Noble Friend behind him that the present depression of the money market justified the most careful proceedings, and al though, perhaps, the worst might be past in Ire land, there was yet much to be endured ; and he be lieved that the Government would do well to consider this subject maturely before they took any definite measures. OUT.DOOR RELIEF. The Earl of SHREWSBURY presented several peti tions on out-door relief, and said that he trusted that if ou: door relief were given it might be made compulsory. TENURE OF LAND IN IRELAND. The Marquis of LANSI)OWNE presented several petitions praying for the abolition of villein tenure in Ireland. POOR-LAW (IRELAND) BILL. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that it had now become his duty to move the second reading of the Poor-law Bill for Ireland, and in doing so he felt that he was inviting their Lordships to follow him in a path beset with difficulties and with danger. He was aware that, in taking measures 'for the relief of a people on whom a calamity had fallen with a degree of unusual intenseness they had to provide, not only for human improvidence, but against the consequences of an awful dispensation of Divine Providence, and if they: reached the port which they sought to attain, they must reach it by a course beset by rocks and encumbered by shoals. They had to raise out of the depth of misery into which it was plunged a country which, without manufactures, except to a very small extent, was yet to be elevated to a state of active industry, and to enrich a people by the efforts of industry, which, to render it effective, required a capital which they did not possess— to enrich a people which, without the appliances of either manufactures or capital, yet possessed a popu lation equal to that of countries which possessed both. Permanent remedies were to be found in other re sources. The only ground upon which he had to ask their Lordships' assent to this measure was, that it was an important and indispensable palliative of • the evils existing in that country. Before he stated to their Lordships what the Bill was, he would state to them what it was not. The present Bill was not a Bill conferring a general, indiscriminate, and per manent right to out-door relief in Ireland. If such were the case, he should be the last person in the House to propose to their Lordships the adoption of the measure, because he believed that a measure of that nature would be fatal to the property, and, above all, to the character of the .people of that country. — (Hear, hear.) The immediate effect of such a measure would be to diminish the number and amount of the producers,: already too small, and to increase the num ber acd amount of the consumers, already too large, and it would tend also to destroy the relations which exist in the country between landlord and tenant, and bring the country into such a state that nothing but evil would ensue. To meet the evils attendant upon such a measure it would be necessary to have a power to compel parties to produce, as the poor a ould by the operation of such a measure be otherwise left to share a diminished produce. Such would, in his opinion, be the inevitable result of such a measure, and he was, therefore, most decidedly averse to the petition, the prayer of which had just been read to the House, the effect of which would be to throw upon the landlords of Ireland a still greater burden than they already were compelled to bear. The object of that petition was the most preposterous that had ever been sub mitted to the consideration of their Lordships. But if their Lordships would act wisely, they would con sider that Divine law which controlled and regulated all affairs. The dictum of the pious French author was— " Remember that it is man that proposes, that it is God that disposes." If their Lord ships neglected that Providence which governed the course of society, they would certainly repent their legislation. and regret the evils inflicted by their deci sion, evils irreparable. He would, therefore, state his opinion of the present measure boldly ; but, before pro ceeding to that he would allude to one observation. It might be said, if he entertained so great jealousy, and so great mistrust of that kind of relief which was called a system of out-door relief, which many were anxious to have enacted, if he thought it a principle which was so dangerous, so calculated to divert from industry, and to increase poverty, so mischievously adapted to the Irish character, which was unhappily marked for a great willingness to rely on charity,—if he saw all that evil, it might be asked how he could propose adopting the principle, even in a qualified degree as it was adopted, in the measure proposed by the Government. It was true that the principle of out door relief was surrounded by evils. But their Lordships in legislating for any evil must always look to the previous character of the nation, its habits and its system, in order to provide a remedy. No Noble Lord hearing him but must come to the con clusion that in order tolprovide, a remedy which should effect the good of Ireland for the future, they must contemplate a great and permanent change in the pur suits and habits of society.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.") For to direct action, to regulate it, to make it safe and innocuous, must be the object of their Lordship's House. Whole districts must be affected in that change—dis tricts that had hitherto been only subjected to the spade must be submitted to the plough, and whole crowds of persons depending on the accidents of nature for their subsistence, and losing that if nature failed, must be changed. Nor was it only the lower classes that must be subjected to the change; the proprietors too must submit to the change.—(blear, hear.) The present state of things must give way t o a more improved system, but he denied that the legislation or the landed property of Ireland were amenable for the present calamity which prevailed in that country. For had they endeavoured to prevent the growth of the potato, the legislature of the country and the people would have made a just outcry against such an attempt. It was only, therefore, by stimulating the landlords and the peasants of Ireland to increased exertions that these evils could be remedied. It would be idle to attempt to state in what time the great changes which were desired could be effected ; but he thought that during the time of the transition it was incumbent upon them to provide for the disorders which might occur during that time ; and among the most prominent of these was to provide for those who would be thrown out of employment. Now, where were these persons to find assistance and support? Who could be found to devise a measure calculated to meet all the contingencies consequent upon these casual, hut certain disturbances ? But unless the Parliament and the Government of the country took some steps, when the poor people were exposed to all the horrors of famine, they would be accused of negligence, indifference, and even with inhumanity. Their Lordships had seen great calamities in Ireland during the course of the present year, and they had seen those calamities met by a degree of liberality which, he would say, did honour to human nature. He would say that these calamities had called forth that sympathy which was the jewel which sat in the head of adversity. They did not inquire whether the object of charity was Irish or English, Catholic or Protestant, a Saxon or a Celt; influenced by such considerations, he was happy to say that those vile and miserable distractions was fast fading away, in despite of the wicked and base endea vours of some,—(Hear, hear.) That sympathy had mood the Atlantic, and had called forth, partly from community of of institution, sentiment, and partly from a community an amount. of exr , rtion which had prnihwerl, in he had only yesterday been informed, had had a rinn:trkahle effect, in all the ports of Ireland, in reducing thzl price of food, and relieving the distress which was so dreadfully prevalent. Among those who had exerted themselves the most—those who had been pre-eminent—who had been ever distinguished for their exertions in the cause of charity, and for the numerous instances of benevolence which they had performed—were the Quakers. (Cheers.) Now, no one, even those who were most remarkable tor the force and power of their intellect, have ever b-en able to suggest any provisional remedy for this trouble during the state of transition, which did not embrace some system of out-door relief. He trusted that their Lord- ships had made themselves acquainted with the provi sions of the Bill; and the principle which it was now his duty to propose was, that under certain modified provisions, out-door r, lief would be administered to the able bodied poor. By the first clause of that Bill (which his Lordship read), it was decreed that it was advisable that in certain cases of destitution relief should be granted to the able-bodied poor. By the second clause it was decreed that, although these cases should receive instant relief, yet it was subject to the discretion of the Poor law Commissioners to regulate this relief. It might be granted only for a period of two months, but if sufficient cause be shown then that further relief, the amount of which was to be defined by the Poor-law Commissioners might be granted. It was proposed that out-door relief should only be administered when the poor-house would be full, and this he considered would operate as a check against any considerable abuse. It was also provided, that wi!li respect to all those whose yearly rent was above 41., the rate should be equally divided between the landlord and the tenant. There was another consider ation also, which, in addition to the great calamity which now existed in Ireland, induced him to assent to this measure, which was the general, but greatly misrepre sented, though not unnatural, complaint made in that country respecting the absentees. He thought, however, there were other places in this empire where absenteeism existed to as great an extent as in many parts of Ire land. Another point in this Bill was that relieving officers were appointed to relieve cases of great destitution ; but this superintendence would be under the surveillance of the guardians, and he did not apprehend that any mismanagement would result from this clause. Now this clause restrained the giving of relief to any one possessed of more than a quarter of an acre of land. The 11th clause made the expenses after a certain rate per pound chargeable on the union at large, and this clause he apprehended would effect much good, as he thought it would stimulate employ ment, and might operate to prevent the injury towards towns where the poor crowded in to procure employ ment. The clause for facilitating emigration by enabling the guardians to levy one-third of the expense off the union at large would, he considered, have a most bene ficial effect. The Noble Marquis after referring to some other clauses, said that there were other measures to go along with this Bill, and among them was a vagrant Act. Their Lordships would see that it would be necessary to accompany it with such measures as would tend to improve the condition of the country. Besides this Bill there was a measure for the cnitivation of waste lands, and the Landed Property Bill, from both of which he anticipated the best results. There were other measures in addition, which, though of a subordinate, were not of an immaterial nature. There was a measure for the erection of piers, the im provement of the fisheries, and the establishment of the curing stations; and he was happy to say, with regard to these latter, that since their establishment, two months ago, they had paid all expenses, and acted as a great stimulus to the industrial exertion. Besides these, it was proposed to advance a sum of 620,0001. to stimulate the enterprise of the country, by advances to railways. It was to these measures, and to the improvements which they would effect, that their Lordships must look as a palliation for the evils of reland, and for the foundation of that permanent good which they all desired for that country. He was painfully reminded of the contrast which existed between that scene of imperial splendour by which they were surrounded, and the depths of that abyss of misery for which they were e died upon to adopt some measures of permanent relief. All that he prayed of their Lord ships was, that they would look with a clear and undaz sled eye from those splendid heights at the prospects of want and destitution which pervaded a great portion of the people for whom they were called on to legislate. No man could doubt the existence of that distress, and which existing, it was the solemn duty of their Lordships to provide against. The Noble Marquis resumed his seat amid loud applause. Lord CLANCAIi.TY said that he thought that the question was one which required the greatest considera tion. He felt great regret in rising to move the amend ment of which he had given notice. Millions of money had been squandered by the Labour-rate Act, and that was at the very time when it was necessary that all the energies of the country should have been directed to the cultivation of the land. This was one of the evils which had its origin in , hasty and inconsiderate legislat ion. He did not ever consider that the principle of the Bill %At's good. The first section gave an option of relief in or out of the workhouse, to all save the able-bodied. Now this clause would cause the workhouse to be re garded as a prison—as a place of punishment, by those whom misfortune had reduced to the necessity o f . seek ing aid. This should not be the case ; he considered that those who received out-door relief would be better satisfied to accept the minimum of relief sooner than go into the workhouse. With regard to the 11th section of this Act, it entirely did away with the charge upon the electoral divisions, and in general its effects were likely to act unjustly and unequally upon the districts it was intended to benefit. Under the 15th section, a very se rious inconvenience would arise to the clergy. Under this Act it was to be expected that the rates would very con siderably increase, and as the landlords under the present system were unable to get their rents or pay their rates to the clergy in full, how was it to be expected that they could pay in full when the demands upon them were increased ? The promoters of this Bill also seemed to anticipate a compact between the elected guardians and the ex-officio guardians, and therefore they had taken care that their numbers should not be otherwise than equal, in order, probably, that they might fight it out upon fair terms. Had due attention been paid to those reports, which were accessible to Government and to Parliament, es pecially a report presented to that House in 1830, with reference to the state of the poorer classes of Ireland ; he thought that it would have enabled the Government to bring forward a measure better calculated to improve the social and moral condition of the peasantry of Ire land. Certainly the price of provisions from abroad had been very much increased, and it appeared to him that it was very barbarous to debar the poor Irish from the only resource which they possessed. If England acted by Ireland as she would be acted by, they would have a sound poor-law, and he should, therefore, conclude by moving that the Bill be read a second time this day six months. On the amendment being put, The Earl of St.. GERMANS said, that the observa tions of his Noble Friend, who had just sat down, ap peared to him to have been addressed chiefly to the first part of the Bill; and in saying that he was cautious how he acceded to the principle of giving out door relief, he could not but acknowledge that some such provision was absolutely necessary. But there was a clause which commanded his approval, and that was that which provided for the destitute , though th ey were in health, for if it were to be denied , how was the condition of the beggar to be improved? It appeared , ,however, that this relief was only to be administered by the boards of guardians, under the direction of the Poor-law Com missioners, for a certain restricted period. To this he was quite ready to assent, but he was by no means pre pared to give that assent without reference to the work house list. It was true that, by the report of the Commis sioners, it appeared that they were unfavourable to the workhouses in Ireland; but by the passages which he read to the House, it would seem that there was at least an opportunity of granting the relief required by the able-bodied but destitute poor. This relief would have the effect of inducing the farmers and landowners of Ireland to find a profitable employment for the poor. Ever since 1835, this had been more and more evident, and by the evidence of Mr. Griffiths, it was seen that there were now more than five millions of acres which required reclamation, and on which the whole of the poor might be profitably engaged, and thus they might be lifted from their present state of degra dation to one of comparative comfort and plenty. But this could only be effected by their passing through a state of transition which must of necessity be accom panied by the endurance of severe distress, and he re joiced that the measure of the Noble Marquis provided for an evil which, however great, was, nevertheless, inevitable. He could assure their Lordships that the only requisite to render this measure effective was a provision for the employment of the people. That this was the case, was evident from the report of Capt. Chads, of the Excellent, who had been engaged to pass through certain districts, by the Government, and his report stated that, in all his progress as far as Lough Swilly, he universally found that the people did not crave for food, but for employment by which they might obtain the means of subsistence. The period of 1839 was one of great excitement and distress. The former had at any rate passed away, but the principle still remained for repressing the evils which were then complained of. The whole expense of the poor-law in Ireland, during the year 1846, was 2 46,0001.; in 1845 it was 298,0001., and the whole of the money collected was 426,1161. Now, the real amount of the property which was assessed in Ireland was 1 6,000,000/. but it was generally taken at about twenty per cent. less, and was therefore really estimated at 13 ,200,000/., and taking it at this amount, the rate would be about sevenpence halfpenny in the pound, while, in effect, the real amount collected, was only sixpence farthing. If they turned to the returns of 1839, and there had been none made since, they would find that the sum obtained by voluntary contributions, and from the counties, for the infirmaries, was 25,5571. That for dispensaries, was, by voluntry contributions, 34,000/., with about 34,000/. obtained from the counties ; there was then, a further sum from both these sources, of 129,000/.; all these, and other contributions together, made up 127,000/. Now, taking all these sums together they would find that the whole of the rating of the land was not more than tenpence halfpenny. Between that sum and unlimited extravagance there was a very wide, and as he considered it sufficient, margin. There was evidently no disposition whatever to extravagance in Ireland, and there was, therefore, no necessity whatever for the interference of the board of guardians, and quite sure was he that there was no necessity whatever for doing away with the workhouse test, but that it would be far better to leave the party of out-door relief to them without the proposed restriction. It was com plained that the workhouses were quite insufficient for the purpose. There are now workhouses in Ireland with accommodation for 112,000 or 115,000 persons, and in extraordinary times this might be insufficient, but it should be recollected that in the " raPC 11r. Niehol it „, 41 t lwy r It''in lie had already said that he believed the v. orkhouse test was necessary to the working c f the Poor -lay:, and he was willing to believe that the Poor-law commissioner_ would do away with it. He must regret the practice of the Noble Lord near him, of remarking upon Epeeehes made in another place in the absence of those who made them, and when there was no opportunity of reply. 11 , 8 said this in the very best irit and with n o wish to offend, The provisions of the Bill which ad,i mated ex officio guardians to the board seem! ' objectionable, and the more so that the were was for Ireland ; because there the unio ns sometimes very large, and the justices very nurnereq; indeed so numerous as to out-number the r e g ularli t elected guardians. But rather than stand out a g s the whole Bill he would consent to such a compromise as would authorise the election of a number of guardians proportionate to the numbers of ex officio guardiall9' There were some other amendments which he wished to introduce into the Bill, and of which he might then giv e notice. He thought the clause with regard to out-door . relief was bad, as leaving nothing to the discretion 01 the guardians. It positively restricted them from out-door relief at all, such was the effect of it , and De would propose to leave it out. The Bill would then leave the relief to the discretion of the guardians theta' selves. He would conclude with expressing his lic e that their Lordships would accede to this measure, as connected with other measures for the good of the people of Ireland, and the cultivation of the country. But if they were to emasculate the Bill by amendaseu ou ta. he hoped they would rather reject the Bill altogether the principle. Lord MONTEAGLE was surprised at what bad fall from the Noble Earl that night ; but he was most of all surprised that the Noble Earl should come to 01 ! House—and against the speech of the Right Rev. na bishop of Dublin, and in favour of his own views —h("1" quote the report made by the Commission of which thet Right Rev. Prelate was at the head. No document m ore severely denounced the principle of out-door relief. , 1 , 13 ,1 there was a document later and more recent than ."" t Yet the Noble Earl had not alluded to that; h e we ll% the report from a Committee of their own House. ~did begged to ask the Noble Earl whether that document oe did not bear the interpretation which he gave to it. would wait for an answer. The Earl of St. GERMANS said he was most 1111 i willing to take up the time of their Lordships, but he : he mitted the interpretation given to the document by Noble Lord—a document dr a wn up by that Noble Loral himself, in the presence of very few P e ers, himself (Ear of St. Germans) being the only English Peer pre sent ' Lord MONTEAGLE granted the document t; drawn up in presence of several of the Pe e F, now in the House ; and, to take the Noble own terms, in the presence of the representative re'd of England.—(Laughter.) That document eXPreBSt'jle the opinions and the decision of that Committee, But Noble Earl himself having been a member of it. to-night the Noble Earl had pursued an entirely (ILI ferent course of argument. But, said the Noble Bar an emergency had come since that report had to drawn up. The assumption was good for p a merely tet); porary measure, but for a measure which was t° incorporated into the laws of the count= . the arguments of the Noble Earl entirely fa il . There was not one shadow of authority for main ta ( n F i t „, that view which was taken by Noble Lords opr" They were placed in a peculiar position at present. The! op, had to deal with a Parliament of very short du 11 but were it otherwise, and that they were at the 0°113...; mencement of the session, he would be able to p rod % the authority of experience. He confessed it would hable relieved his mind from considerable anxiety if his 14 ) °,r i e, Friend could have proved to the House and t he Pula with proofs, that experience would demonstra te its 'a1 ,14 cacy. A Noble Lord had made some admissions• to said that the workhouse system was neees s t rY e,) the working out of this measure.— Hear, " e . fi no But was there any such workhouse s/is'r'ds in Ireland as would be equal to do so. Noble - o _ o , were not aware of what the unions in Ireland fe.,d_ There were only 130 workhouses, or unions, Irei7ilt; while there were upwards of 600 unions in Englan d ,' a re. very circumstance of the few workhouses in Irelanybey eluded the posssibility of the system w orking,• o t ies were, therefore, handed over to deal with did there which might, perhaps, be surmounted ; but then / l o w were other difficulties which were insurmountable. .e. was this Bill to be carried into effect ? One single lieving officer was all that was to be afforded to eao. union. Now, he would ask any Noble Lor d, who win acquainted, however slightly, with I reland, could Pt! en for a moment, suppose such an arrange mt. _ could work efficiently. Besides the powers that were vested in the guardians would render the working of this measure impracticable. He was told that these were in tranquil t w h e a r t e s a e l c l imhwaagginneatryticleaueseasee.of If they He would sho y w' times—if they were in the times when the Poor law wee first introduced the y mi g ht have some ho p e that the re lief might be fairly administered. There were upwardsld of 50,00 0 children in those workhouses whom you upwards by removal deprive of the advantage of the workhouse s T c h h e ool N s, o l h v l h e ich t w or e d re w am ho on them that it would be accompanied hY Bi n had tO not root out of the hearts of the Irish° for the suppression of mendicity, but they con?" people g in st tro th d e ue b ed est th i e n the count% he principle which led to mendicity, w hi ie ch was with them a moral and religious principle. Se was sorry that his Noble Friend opposite had not given them a more satisfactory statement. Looking at another point which had been referred to, he regarded wit., great gratification the efforts that bad been made In this country for the relief of Ireland, but he must say Bill that if they referred to the annals of Ireland they won': find that there was more charity for the relief of h t a h n, poor, and for the administration of that relief, t considering its circumstances, in any city If this measure would have the effect of infusing e• condition of' the country, developing its resources, h cap. e bilities, and stimulating its industrial . e h_ thought the money-charge incurred by it, would . 1). 0 6 . very subordinate consideration ; but he did not think that there could be a greater fallacy than to suppost! tha t a better system of agriculture could be introduced byli or that increased employment would be one of its con sequences. What the Irish people wanted was inoneY in Euron stimulants, but how, he would ask, were these to be sup plied by the present Bill? He maintained that it won have the very contrary effect, and not only diminiscah he means, but take away all motives to exertion from th e people of Ireland. He thought the clause2s. 01 6d., distributed the supplies of rating would do the out of the union, was one which would cause a towns more harm than good, as it. greater influx of the paupers in There was no greater delusion than i rite attributed to this measure the cessation o f Irish ein g Lion into England. He thought it unwis e and illogic al , al to anticipate this effect. If it raised the rate of wo ift it might lessen the emigration into thi s countr y , but lowered the rate of wages no su ch result would follow. Now, that it would have the e ffect of lowering the rate of wages, and consequen tl y increase emi g ration, he twowhinci s would appeal to the wor kin g of the Englishto tghat poor-law► and ask them if the administration of out-door relief had not the effect of lowering the rate of wages in this country. He was rp supported i so n ttehm t e h r i so s , f v taM h eli a : v rag e the effect of increasing the imports tion I wi o e u hw t o d b o yw o outdoor rh r ee e relief the Ireland o r i p t r ni oonf would M th r ; in which they proposed to levy tion of Irish paupers into this the method in whicht which he felt to the measurelandlords,upocnoutnhtery. Theobjbeucttiotno the fund collected.---( Hebaery, washper proposed e t d o t t o h e amountexexpend times the Government had promised ar. toAtencvoaurrisoltgl: an agricultural education. If that had been done when they introduced the national system of edu cation in Ireland, if they had instituted schools for agri culture, they would never have witnessed the dreadful scenes which were now daily occuring in that country'. He would merely say, in conclusion, that the measure was intende_d to be perpetual, and that its advocates based their advocacy of it upon arguments which only sprung from a temporary emergency. The Earl ST. GERMANS said that the Noble Lord had misinterpreted his arguments in a great man/ particulars. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE supported the Bill, and entered at some length into a refutation of y arguments of the Earl of Clancarty and Lord 1 101 , 3 , 8 eagle, respecting the system of out-door relief'. would ask if the people of Ireland were in that la. happy state in which they were represented to be t ; a w alf o lto u ewr l d ta i h t l s not ateo b h e rae b m e ma t better na r s u t ir o ne affordtahseir thatt presenth em p rsoopmosestearctieel w? i e tts f, 11 : 11 01300 n di which was only a matter of justice to I re ' a t ee asit would stimulate industry, and develops ' I .) industrial resources of the country (Hear, y e bad thatarr yl laws st were tlie I n a His Noble Friend who had moved the .— ainend ine ly to carry that the poor law guardians would be 1 1, 11 in g eW ut m w aseritelywarsollisntoenfdpeadrethombeen. :41,-lidettywititt had I so re m la e h a d l . low l a n n e c e e r m ta u in st e b la e ss m es ad o e e for the state of, s° ,; o - 11 been effected in their habits, asnocdieittyonalyr.erveorarualoldf the r them to encourage the change which had begun . „ - pr sta farmers would not, or did not, see their own inb operation of this law and the changed state of clearly, they, above all men, would be r uined " the it socleV eir would induce. If the gentry, also, did not lend tnre. countenances to the measure, and see that it was Pews perly carried out, they also would go against their ~ f r. interests and be ruined. The working oche law u e , pended upon themselves ; and, if they isot S__ that it was properly carried out, how were they to leg!. late for such a state of soeiet ? He did not, howevel: believe that such would be the case, and he thought the' the peopl e wou ld h ave a greater reg ard for their own interest and welfare and that of the country , than to s i r ciently. The magistracy and gentlemen that this law was administered improperly and y ine ere wer e for alive to the actual necessity of taking active steps _ the proper administration of the law. They kneovv. well that if they did not, the paupers 1 the country, would so far increase in numbers, that Herbs - they would eventually be too strong for them. eat lieved that eventually this measure would confer a g and lasting benefit upon the people of Ireland. generall The Archbishop of DUBLIN said, that reference h; been made to a speech of his upon a former occasion i I r 1 which he said that he did not give high wages. BY "' a expression he did not intend to convey that he g," lower wages than the man could obtain anywhere el!e• He gave his labourer such wages as shou ld induce hie: to work, and would not have a tendency to discourag him from labour. He had acted upon th e p lan of gng employment, although not actually in need of labourers; in order to save the persons from becoming paupers, o being in distress, until they could obtain employment elswhere. Such a course was pursued by tacit ag ree ; ment among the landed proprietors, and in fact it w!a understood, that as far as they could, they sho uld, in time of distress, keep the labourers of their districts sat=