The Sun. — London, England, 1804-06-16 00:00:00

I.IIPERIiiL PARLLIMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. 1' 11 I DAV, JUNE IS. TN the Appeal from the Court of Chancery, Lu. eEtsA V. CR AUFURD, Mr. GILES was heard for the Plaintiff in Error. Further hearing deferred until Thursday next. Lords DUXCAN and RODNEY took the oaths and their seats. The Order for proceeding on the. ZoucFre Peer_ age, which stood for Thtlisday next, was discharged and fixed for Friday. Several Private Bills were brolight up from the Commons, and read a first time. The Bills on the Table were passed in their re spedive stages. Lord GRENVILLE moved the Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned Debate, collie second.reading of the Aylesbury Eledion Bill. His - Lordship ad, vetted briefly to the general line of argument which he had pursued in the former stages of the Bill, the force of which he conceived must he materially strengthened by the Evidence which had been takeo at their .Lordships' Bar ; from which Evidence it was manifest, that the pradice of Bribery had pre.. iailed, not only at the last Election for the Borough of Aylesbury, but that it had for a long time pre, ceding that period' been reduced to an absolute system, as notorious as it was universal. His Lordship then moved that the Bill be committed, presuming upon the indulgence of their Lordships', to allow him to reply to such arguments as should be urged in o; pp to the Bill. . . The LORD CHANC ELLOR , in a spee c h of consi. derable length, and sound legal argument, expressed his disapprobation of the Bill, which, in every view that he had been able to take of it, he must consi. • .. drr as a. measure oppressive, iLtiust, and unconstitu . tibnal. 'His Lord s hip contended, 'that the Commit tee: of the House of Commons were not authorized - by the Provisions of the Grenville Ad, to make the Report nilon ?which the Bill was founded, and for this strong reaSort, that the Electors of Aylesbury were' — not parties to it,,anct that there was injustice in critninating those persons unheard, who were not allowed the opportystity,uf defending . themselves. His Lordshipwas followed by. Lord& GROsVE isroa , ,SUFFOLK, GRENVILLE, AUCRLAND,and-HAwKEs `p UR On a divisiony . the question for the second :i . 6ding was carried fly a. majority of - 39.t0 7. The Bill was accordingly read a second time, anti order.. ed to be committed on Tuesday. --..Adjourned, S ,~ HOUSE OF. COMMONS. FRIDAY, JUNfi IS. ;Mr. VANsirtART presented a • Petition from a pftson named Iliff, who was yesterdayeommitted•to custody by the Middlesex Eledion Committee, for non-attendance, when summoned, and . fOr gross mis conduct when in attendance before the Committee, praying the clemency of the House, _ Sir T. METCALFE hoped the Hon. Member would ti.efer to ,press this Petition on the House till a future flay. Heswas a Member of *at Comtvit:,W; and could testify that the Petitioner had grossly mis- Condlined himself in both the 'instances for which 'he had been committed to Custody.' The House too, • woUrd-have the goodness to recollect, that theMld dlesex Committee had been now sitting dent,, for., five calendat montl - ...'ilevoting the most. aidithus • attention to the subjeacoMmitted for their consi. deration ; and that their progrest had been' very cons4cletably impeded by the non-attendance clsome • witnesses, and the Miseondua of many others;' there would be little to deter witnesses frorn this gross misconduft, if, when committed to custody for their 'contumacy, they could 'find good-natured 'Gentle men, not Members of the Committee, to present Petitions in their favour, and to solicit the ienitv of the House an their_ behalf. ft would be better to leave such men to be dealt with by the Commit- tee , who, a s Witncsse3 of their miscondudt, 'were best ab:e to judge how far they had any claim to lenity. Mr..VANSITTART agreed to withdraw the Peti tio:i for the present. Sir JOHN SINCLAIR brought up the Report of the Committee oh the comparative Qualities of Scotch aod English Barleys, refeired with a view to the Scotch Malt Tax.—Ordered to lie on the Table. Mr: IR vt Kg- prewnted, from the o.sce of the In_ spettor of E:Oorts and Iniports, an Account of the ExpOrts and Imports of West India Produce within the last" three years. —Ordered to be printed', . Mr. kt o's presented his Bill to permit the Sale of eer E,tv I n lia Prize Good* in Liyerpocil.---Read the•firbt time, • - Mr. 41•letitiin Comfit wished for permission to hear Counseragainst itie Bill. Si' A.ZEit iiilwined the lion. Member, that Counsel m'glit be beard in any future stage of the Bill.-- Ordered to be read a second time on Mon day._ _ _ • Mr. STURGES BOURNE moved for leave to bring in a Biil to enable Matthew 13 , 4dr0n, Esq. to ex port. Michine;y. necessary for eretiing a Mint in the Duininieus of the King of Denmark. —Leave given. A Message was received from the Lords, request_ ing a CoinotnlicJtion to their Lordships of the 3d and 4.'h Rep ttfi of the Committee of Scotch High land Survey. , ---Ordered. Mr. SIVLICAIS BotnKNE presented certain papers zespeairlgilte llarbour _Dues 'of the Isle of ,Man. Read a third time and passed, the ;.,inert Export Duty. Exemption Read a second time, the Irish Linen Minnfatitirc Regulation Bill.-7=Committed for Tuesday, The-Committees of .Supply and Ways•and Means were postponed to Monday. . The consider 'Lion of His Majesty's Message with rispeti to the Provision to he made for the Family of the late Lord KILW4RDEII,. was also postponed to Monday. , Mr. .T.I,4.IIISCEDIF S brought i n t h e Bill f or S us _ pending ' - e'rtain Penalties in the Woollen Manufac ture,..4scc-,:—Read'aArsr rime ) and ordered to be read 3 second tine onMotahly.• • ADDiTioNAL row!: BILL Mc.:AL PxANDE P. litonglit up the Report of tile Additional Permanent D4trice Bill fo r England. The Report being read, pr, forma, a first time, the question was put, " That these Amendments be now read a second time." Mr. P. MOOR E said he had delivered his semi_ ments on this Bill before, and they were not changed. He considered it• now, after all its Amendments,' a measure entirely unconstitutional in irs nature, with provisions wholly odious and oppressive iii ex ecution. It went to augment the Standing Army of this Country, and which would be at ten::ed wish an expence of. 3,000,0001. on the Landed Interest annually:- He thought it an infinitely stronger measure than-the India Bill of 1784. Thar was a question between or ten Diresttors of the India Houie on ore side, and sixteen on the other, and the Country would have been richer if that Bill had been carried. into erie.C . l. But this involved the question, " Whether theConsritution, handed down to us. lay our ancestors, should exist any longer or not ?" He - expelled much superior measures from the great abilities tithe Right Hon. Gentleman now at the head of His Majekty's . Government. kie expefled that he would have brought forward some measure to conciliate the affedions . of the People of Ireland, for that was the subject which made him re. sign. He knew this was a delicate sohjett, but could not help alluding to irk because he though t it impossible to conciliate the aireEtionl of the People of that Country, - hile we had a Force of 28,000 men as cetitinels over thorn. Mr. DENIS BROWN obserVed, that the as. sertion of the Honourable Gentlernan 4 that there are 28,000 Men in Ireland. as Ceti' tinels on the People, was unfounded. • Fie denied that the:Troops there, were Centinels on:the People of Ireland. He was bound to suppose, that the Hun. Member did not wish that the-minds of the People of that Country, nor of this; should be inflamed ; but' the fad was, that the effz.4l of these Speeches was injurious, as far as they had any effeet. He .admitted, there had been coqiderablerdisconte nt in• Ireland some ti;ns ago,. but the disposition of the People there was changed; and if die Enemy were to land in Ire land, they . would find themselves as much in 'an E ( nerny's Country as if in Great Britain. . He main, tained, that the i!dople of Ireland at large .had no share in the Insurr(Clions of the 23d of July. The Question was then put, Strangers were or. tiered ,to withdraw, and .the House proceeded to divide, • For the reading of the Amendments, 63 Against it, .1 • • 69 _,..lt.is here a b so l ute l y necess a ry t o explain to our Readers, the cause of this most unexpeCted Vote.— No division Of the House being expeded at so early an hour, there were not f2O - Members present when the Question was put ; but when the divi sion Was" called for, several Members who were in the Coffee-room, rushed down stairs, ancLthrew iliim — selves into the, House before the doors were shut. A Qogstion was. then discussed, whether thtf:had a right to vote, not having been pie sent,'when the Question was put ? but it wa s -deter _mined inithe affirmative. When the Gallery were opened, Sir JOHN WkoT ,TFSLEY was speak i inmon a Motion made by Mt. '' 'that-those,Ainendme nts should•be read on this day thre&montfi." Sir-JOHN If/ROT - TESL EY contended ; .that if this Bill Avail lost, we should be obliged to have recourse to- a 'mode • of raising men which was universally, allOWed .to, be, the, worst. of all, namely, that of raising for rank. Titere was no triode Which : had thrown so many difficulties as this the general fteCruitin g Service, a it created suc% a competitiim; - tliiit 'tio fixed bounty.could stand before.- It had been allowed on 'all sides of the Hotrse,'that: our Regular Armies shouid,be conside rably increased,-and no method that had been hither to proposed appeared to him likely% to, operate so well, for the permanent increase of the Army,•with the smalkat burden to the Nation, as the present Bill proposed. As to the principle Which was most relied upon for Recruiting the Armies, that of chang ing-t-he- term of service from an - unlimited to a limit. ed time, that was not at all inconsistent with the present Bill, but, on the contraly, was to be taken into the most solemn and serious consideration.— He concluded by expresthig - liimself a warm adVo .cate for the Bill. Mr. HOBH7JOSE did riot think the necessity of a considerable augmentati n of the Amin) , could he colleded•from this-Bill, , as ,well as it might be from the speeches of the Honourable Meal!iets who hrougi.fir The part of the Bill he particularly objected to, was that which gave the Cons and. ing Officer a power of giving twenty pounds bounty when the Parish Officer could only give sixteen, The-CH.INCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said a few words,oory fort he purpose of enabiing the House to undet i stand that one part of the,Hon. MeMber's argUrnent-Who had just sat down, was founded on total misapprehension. The point to . which he re ferred was that whiCh respeded the COirparative ad i,antages of the Pars eniai and the General Recruiter, It was not true, that the , General Recruiter would, go into the-market with twenty pounds in WS pocket to - fill up parochial deficiencies. In the thirteenth page of the printed 'Bill, 'the Hon. Member would find that. the General Recruiter was restricted from giOng:iiie•than two thirds of the bounty appoint ed for the Regular Army.. Sir - R. - BUXTON deprecated the Motion for put ting off the consideration of the Amendments for three months; as one of the most extraordinary pro_ positions ever submitted to the House. He was convinced that the Bill, when fairly understood, would be considered as a boon by the Country, and tiserefore.lie felt in his conscience that it ought to be adopted by the Legislature. Mr. BURR.OUGLIS, in a speech of some length, went over the whole range of arguments, oyer_and over again urged on former stages of the Bill, He denied that the 13 - 111 was unconstitutional, 5,S ista. Wishing a large perepanent military force.' The times in which we lived were-of an extraordina - r; . nature; and the dangers to' which we were r)(pOse4 . viimlc.:l not permit us, in speaking • of: our military res6UrceS, to proceed on 'common ptincp!es.. Ai giitte'ots against a Sanding Arms , - formerly i , had now. lost - rough of - their weight ; a r id if the .did s y repos e co- this astiAptioQ - Jur ridrF;;.,; •, it did n 3 mere than the new situation of the Coun try required.. This argument against the Bill as unconstitutional, appeared to him unworthy of the seribus consideration of the House. Those who urged such an objection, seemed also totally to for get that the liouse possessed the purse out of which the Army leas to be supported, •and that there was art annual Bill to regulate the mode of its bein g k e p t in exist ence . Wi t h t h e knowledge of all those circumstanees, it was ridiculous to talk of the force to be raised by the Bill, as being at all attended with danger. The Honourable MeMber, after go ing over several other arguments, in which no novelty occurred, sat down with declaring his deter millation to vote against the Motion. Mr. C ARTWRIGHT was on the same sine.— After defending the Bill on the common grounds of its easy applicaticin and tendency, speedily to aug ment the Regular Army, he made some particular remarks respeding the present Administration. He allowed that he could have wished for a union of.all tile great and leading political charaflers in the Country, for the complete oblivion of all: those Party-distindions which too often prevailed in the House, without producing any public advantage.—e Though he, however, might regret that such a com prehensive arrangement had not taken place, still he would not go so far as some Gentlemen, who seemed to be of opinion, that, the accession of the Right Hon. Gentleman now at the head of His Majesty's Councils, was not' of itself a great berme.. fit. He was sure that the Country did consider this a great benefit to the interests of rite Empire. The people, he was sure, had not forgotten the services of that Right Hon. Gentleman, at a crisis of diffi culty unexampled in the History o of, Nations.— They had not forgotten, that to his exertion s th e y owed ,the p reservat i on of whatever was valtabli in the Empii•e, and t h at a d e b t o f grat i:Udewa's due to him which, they could never repay. • The H 0,,, Member sat down by voting against the Motion Sir W. GEARY opposed the Bill strenuously,' as quite unconstitutional, dangerous, and unnecessary, Fie particularly deprecated the pradice of relaxing our jealousy of a Standing Amy, at a moment when our means of Defence were so much beyond what .existed at any former period,- -The worthy Baro. net declared, in the name of his Constituents, 'that he could not, consistently with the principles 01 Liherty recognized in this Country, :supporta mea.: sure ',villa had the effect of augmenting, biiiyond what circumstances required, what was termed our Dis-' posable Force. . . . ,Lord DUNLO w i s h e d i t to b e, remembered, that on the original disclosure of this measure the sense of the House was strongly for it. Since that - time the disposition favour ,of it had increased, and it had been carried, with augmented appearances of ap probation, into a Commit tee.:• 'No objedion.had been. made to the provisions Cline irothe Commit tee, bat an unforeseen cppositioo had been . made:this day to the second raading of the - Amendaerits i 4 hen Gentlemen had not expedtd -it. He would not say now what was the description that should be giVeti of that proceeding, but if he was in a place in which he formerly was- conversant, he should .Gall it Sharp PrelOice. Now, in consequence of gaining a very small and a very accidental advantage, .the . Ron. Gentleman opposite had taken advantage on the spur of the occasion, without any arguments to propose, that the Amendments may be read . this day three months, He . wds sure he was addressing *limy whose feelings were adverse to the principle of 'the Bill—but he was sure that every conscien, tiotts man must he dissatisfied with the manner in which this question was brought forward. It was true time question was altered, now :—but the post pOheinent of the second reading,of die Amendments would not be allowed to be a fair mode of getting rid of the Bill. Mr. H. L.4SCELLES had not been in the House at the titne, hut he had heard" of the extraordinary circumstance 'that had taken place. As far as he was acquainted with the practice oft the House, and he appealed to the Gentlemen who were best ac quainted with it, such a thing was totally without precedent. Mr.' GREY spoke to order, and said that he did not apprehend that upon any such question it - was proper to canvas thus the former proceedings of the House. • The SPEIKER- said, that it was not out of order for any Hon. Member to alledge the prior proceedings on a Bill, as a reason for his voting. Mr. L.ISCELLES then continued his observa. Lions, and was proceeding to consider the merits of the Bill itself, when • Mr. 7EKYLL again spoke t o order, saying, that he thought the Hon. Gentleman had most grossly infringed the order and privileges of. the House. ne CHANCELLOR qf the EXCHEQUER said, that the Hon. Gentleman who thus spoke to order as to the impropriety of speaking of a past transaction, had, with a singular sagacity, called the other Gen. tleman to order at the very moment he (Mr. Lits aELL Es) seemed to be entering into- observations as to the Bill itself. Mr. FULLER rose amid the general cries of Question," and " Strangers withdraw;" and said, " never .be such a. tool for Party as to speak for time ; let us come at once to a division." M. D R said, that although the avowed ob fed of the present :Motion was- to produce discussion, none 91 the Gentlemen supporting • it seemed inclined to say a single word upon the subjed. He appealed to the oldest Member of the House, if they ever recollected such a pro.' ceeding having been attempted upon the Amend. merits suggested by a Committee, He never heard of any attempt of a similar nature having been praCtised in order to get 'rid of a. Bat.. He, fur one, should not think it his duty to go in. to a division, upon such an incidental point,, out, at least, stating his reasonS's,vli,y* he thought the , Hon. Gentknian's Motion ought to be negatived. With resped tO the objeCts of the Bill, he expressed surptize that Gentlemen should be so very in_ consistent 7 ;n' their condtid; for, 'when the Right ;'Hon- Gcotlemati formerly .!Mentioned his Plan, pre. ;vious 'to his comin g into otEce, ,it ypq generally ap prived cf by . those very Gentleinen - who uutiv seemed 03 , 13 .19P.)5e it, He was inClinecl to think, that their conduct must, this occasion; be influenced* bY lurk' ?: U ~,ir,ary; motives.' He concluded Yvith raviiing gsn•7Atne.dment to,• tha • Motion, which , ........--- i t hree was,. rr that instead of the words this tai,, te il, months, the words Monday next be an , l3 ", l e 'i on for the further consideration of the Arreznon''"" 3 the Bill." deta in Sir IV. DOLBEN said, he only ros e t°,,,iiie the House f ur a f ew m i nutes , i n or der to jus" h 'l ov e, vote he would g i ve upon t h e occas ion. A lt t he he had formerly 'voted with the Gentlemen on other side against the Bill, is being thought wort stitutional, yet he thought the present Motw ° 00 , unfair, and therefore he could not think of .s u PP ing them in that particular. n th e Mr. WARD supported the Arriendnien t, ° .4, same principle as his Hon. Friend (Sir W..D° L13 , 11 - c , with . this difference, that he was friendly to th e , 2 pr e, sure. An Hon. Meinber over the waYl the eg's.), senrative. of a respedable County (Mr. fu r ' e; the same fair had talked of his obje&ion to speaking agains t ' c i ' a l he was sure the Hon. Gentleman was influent e he a nd ~ t i l ia t . t he principle throughout, would feel the same objeaion to getting ri",,°„ of Bill by the question to put off the second reauc'd to the Amendments for three months. He adverted the warmth which had been ;:hewn in this' ' er in si, attributing it to the extraordinary 119 % 11 6 10f which the House had been divided. He ari n.° " ent itt Mr. PITT'S condud, in assum i n g t he GoYerngn the circumstances in which he did. , n i n ion Mr.. SPENCER STAA'HopE was O' °r a ver that such , a‘ proceeding as t he present h z a `i tp ere taken place on any former occasion. if might a re ir, haps be consistent with order, but he ":/ airi: do,' would be Considered by• the Country as er 'lb cv a rt , q en and contemptibl e .—(A l and and g " 0rde..1.! Order! Chair! Chair!") i lzO e'll The .SpEAKER d ec id e d, that in ani''Y h Viion• epithets' to any p r O cee di ngs o f t h at House t " Member had been highly disorderly. iorpinber''; Mr.' 3,EICY LL move\ that the Hon , 04 - Words be taken down. - s elf/ - - Mr. SPENCER STANHOPE declared hu n oto , on being correted from; the Chair, ready 1 0 3 ,1..4 5 giZe to the Housefor having transgressed the . 11 "' so , of Order. He entered into a coniparison of M e ., for increasing veral plans that had been suggested. the "Regular Army,: and said, he a pproved or tp , one more than any other. Any roan (he observed' who had attended to the History of th 4 Country inirst-know;, tliat a 'Tar g enera ll y begins upon. oar Finances f ur one or t w o ears previous to odr h a ul . , _ y a Disposable ArMy ; but this Pl a n was to enableil to start with " men at the same time that we start!' with - rnciney. , e The' APT° RA I Pl 7 -GENER AL said, that wog House would easily understand to whom they b y indekreil fo . i any . del,* which he, roight occa si sO un ie rising to escpress his sentiments up on this ri g, r f Kotion. It was one which w a s fly ru i g aj j perle OO c and absurd. The Hon. Gentl eman who hi ° , by the Motion seemed to fancy, th a t after faih n g n ty argument he could succ ee d by s ilence: T leaped,i consequence of such a M ot i on , h o wever, °° e poll would be to necessitate the House to en Cer n e s S ° 3 01S Stlbjea •of the Bill with more tran utc . - e nclea" Mon . day next. The Hon. Gentleman w e l i ild 11 6 ° F ., 1 * votiting to defeat by surprize, since he 1 :y to '- defeat by argument. He wisl ' ied 'c url " pout vere noC heard by that description of persons who ' d to re attached to any particular Party, n4.)r dispose d i iger move HiaMajesty's Ministers from their; COW' , , he . and called on them to consider what would be so effe6t of this Bill, if carried into execution' , , what, on t h e contrary, wou ld he the conseque nc..aol„ if' such a Motion were to be agreed to. Th e 4. ' 1 • WAs Mover se eme d to imagine that their palienee lace tired by th e di scuss i on that had already ta ken . P , by . upon it, and that he could alone gain his p"u' d al , some other extraordinary effort, while they lia e k 1 e et ready been hurried to a division, at an une x ?„ 00 0 hour.. Au Hon. Gentleman had said, that he " fla k never lend himself to be a tool tO any Party t° ; r a ia9 for time; but he (the ATTORNEY GEN" At ' e ' at jdo convinced, by his condua, that that Hon' ~- -p artY man seemed disposed to lend himself to an ,, 1 7 a few for any purpose_ Here Mr. FULLER ~5 31, - , a r d IT words from the opposite side.] —He 110° 11 ". - 1 'itself argument to sh . ew that the effea of the ''''ll to r d'orCt , would be ruinous. It was curious Il le. ' i n , ~i j go , observe, to what extent Gentlemen s y°- : n i no ion ~ creating an opposition to te further d' sc- ry the Question, by ! LAUS flying o ff f rom t he Ve'' ''lie elusions which they had ro a nte rmerly grant measure proposed by t h e Bi ll was one °:: w hich necessity. Mi nor o bj e ni ons to a meaSar` - ~, there; was gener a lly ac k nowledged to b e good s w7ccoult4 fore no objedions at all, unless similar measure-. proposed,r u ° be did in whi c h suc h i nco nvenienc es wer ed exist. The ATTORNEY GENERAL the n C .11 diction, into a minute investigation, and spirited vol , wo ults of - this Plan, which he said, upon eornpari sc °nos ed, he found to excel all others that had been P r I r i i o n. ri d conl'ile by its putting an end: to ballots, ,„ I seemed` Such a motion as the present (conti" ne "-" - '' fi ndin g no , to originate from disappointmen t, . ' n , it io n (A try any just ground or foundation for.°V ° l i t were, eye" Hear! llear!") to try the strengt° , as • of His Majesty's Ministers. ' dOA Mr. FULLER here. spoke to o rder, a° he i • a for t that be, for one, had th greatest resr • this va el. Right Hon. Gentleman who brought in sure to the consideration of the House: Ge l '' The SPEAKER thought the Right Hon• ot tor's' I man (the ATTOR N EY GENERAL) had rather gressed the rules of order, in so alluding CO illP 1110 _ 1 tives of others. ' a na l s aid, The ATTORNEY GENERAL resumed , res" e that he could not help' thinking that when every ~ to ' son of opposition to these measures appeared ire ma removed,that he was justified in ascribing she • ductog to that of being desirous, at all events, oftn "A He hOp His Majesty to change his Government. l ' ll a. , therefore,_that kind of equality would be kept Id eclu"' on both sides of the House, and that they would ~,.. . 1 'of ly abstain from deviating from the strictness 0 ~ d i ffereo He then continued his comments on the , ' con chided " d ;measures that h - ad been 'prop e, o sed, an . speech of great length and vehemenc by . asset'," 11107- • that this was the beet: measure, and the most , to prOduee'the effeet,intentled by it,. . , . Mr• It' 9sit ' The question was then pqt upon . . . 4tneridnierit, when there. appeared,. ' 't Ayes . , ii.4.:L-Noes 186-IViajort y .tB.aa . . Alter the Division, the House iiitreetd'ale)Y purled to ALoday ne*ll,