The Sun. — London, England, 1832-05-11 00:00:00

SECOND- EDITION SUN OFFICE, Seven o'Clock. WESTMINSTER MEETING. , (Concluded from our Fourth Page.) Mr. O'CoNNELL said these Were the times to try men's s cola, and soon, he bad no doubt, it would be proved what Englishmen were made of. An alteration would soon take place.—(Cheers, and a cry of "Republic.") He i.cew there was not a man in the roonf who would be a slave to the vile bornughmongers.—(Cheers.) The period was come when Englishmen must be true to themselves.— (We will.) The people could not longer be enslaved by the Tory oligarchy, who had burdened the nation with a debt of nearly a thousand millions.—(Groans.) The peo• ple of England would see what had been done by the brave Netherlanders.—(Cheers.) Would Englishmen be behind those foreigners, when they were engaged in a glorious struggle for their liberties ?—(No, no.) Would they not do as our ancestors had done, when the Barons obtained the Charter from a tyrant King?—(Cheers.) English history proved the noble deeds Englishmen were capable of of performing. They all remembered the fate of Charles the First, for listening to the advice of a foreign wire. —(lmmense cheers.) The fate of that Monarch ought to operate as a warning to others. Englishmen in that glorious contest against Charles, beat down his armed le gions, and brought him to the scaffold.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. O'C.) did not like to shed blood, and never on a acArold.—(Cheers, and cries of " Hear an Irishman.") Yew, hear an Irishman.—(Hissee and cheers.) He did not frel it a disgrace, but an honour to be an Irishman.— (Hear.) He (Mr. O'C.) next alluded to the conduct of the people of England in the time of James 11. The people groaned under despotism for a long time, but they burst their bonds, and cashiered the despot.—(Cheers.) 'Fhe people of England would now, as they had done in farmer times, do their duty to themselves and to their country. A dreadful crisis had arrived, and the people would show they were determined in the cause—the glo. rious cause of Reform.—(Cheers.) Sons of freedom, hold up your hande.—(All held up.) You will enforce your rots at all haaarde.—(We will.) You have no un friendly ur disloyal feeling towards the King.—(Groans and cheers.) You would support him in that splendour which is consistent with kingly anthority, but you will possess )our liberties.—(We will.) You will be free. —(We will.) " Then know He who would be free himself must strike the blow." He did not doubt that the glorious cause would yet be triumphant—it was a just cause and must be carried.— (Cheers.) He hoped they should be able to carry back the Ministers on the shoulders of the people of Englaoii to their places as Ministers of the King.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. O'Connell) had occasion to complain of the Minis ters, they had not treated him well, they had persecuted him fur dssobeying a proclamation, and he would always disobey a proclamation that was not founded on law.— (Cheers.) He put the conduct regarding so humble an individual as himself out of the question, he would bury it in oblivion, knowing, as he did, that the time had arrived, when of necessity the people of England and lieland would Unite and rid themselves of despotism of every kind, political or religious. Despotism and bigotry would wither at the universal cries of the freemen of England now resounding throughout the Empire. A great revolution was about to take place.—(Hear.)— Republics would rise up in every part of the world, and the stones of Russia would rise up against its despotic rider.—(Cheers.) The revolution in this country would not be to depose a King, but to annihilate an infamous band of oligarchs.—(Cheers.) The people would have the Reform they universally desired, or they would not pay tithes—(Cheers)—or taxes.—(Cheers.) They might &strain the people's pods, but, as Pat says to his brother, -• if the goods are sold, there must be somebody to buy."— (Cheers.) And who would purchase ?—(No one.) The whole nation, he hoped, would assemble that day in parish meetings, and show that, unless the wishes of a whole purple were attended to, they would refuse to support G iverument by withholding all supplies.—(Cheers.) Ile whole nation bad risen as one man, and he did not despair of success, becau'e when Englishmen were so united, and so resolved in a cause so sacred, they would never sit down till they bad effected the dearest object of their hearts.--(Cheers.) The Learned Gentleman, after a few more observations, concluded a very powerful and energetic speech. Mr. C. A TULK felt considerable difficulty in coming forward to address the meeting after the eloquent speech of tie Learned Gentleman who had just sat down. He, how. ever, ♦entured to trespass on their patience for a few mo went', and it was only the resolution he had to propose that supported him in the difficulty he laboured under.— I was an arduous duty they had now to perform, in opposing these despots to society—the boroughmongers.— ( Hear, hear.) He called upen them to be arm, and act logether in the great cause—the cause of freedom; and the time would not be far distant when they would gain that d. scription of Reform they had so long eagerly sought for. He then proposed the address, which was seconded by Mr. Dawson, and carried amid loud acclamations. It was then proposed and seconded that the two Mern brrq, Sir F. Burdett, and Sir John Caw Hobbouse, pre sent the addre•s to the House. Colonel JoN Es, in a long speech, proposed the fifth .li~solntion. At this moment s most in'eresting scene took place— three eentlemen, Messrs. Scholefield, Parkes, and Gray, terming a deputation from the Birmingham Union, entered t! e room, bearing an address from that body to the House of Commons, to the same t ffeet as the one now adopted. Upon the names of the deputation being announced, im mense cheering took place, which lasted several minutes. Sir F. BcanErr (after order had been restored) intro- duced Mr. Scholefield as the Deputy Chairman of the Birmingham Union. The gentleman addressed the meet. ing in a speech which appeared to afford the greatest delight. He described the people of Birmingham as being united to a man in the cause of freedom. Sir F. BuanErr, in returning thanks, said be bad been too long acquainted with his fellow-citiz tna to render it necessary to say anything of his past or future conduct. He had always endeavoured to perform his dutv.—(CheerF.) Th e people must now be firm a nd resolute in the steps they take, and at the same time avoid any premature act that may ti wart the great object for which they are contend ing. From accounts received from all parts of the empire it appeared the people had exhibited an union sen timent and feeling unparalleled.—(Hear, and Cheers.) And instead of desponding or having misgivings on the subject, be thought they ought to adopt a tone of exulca win of anticipated trittropb.—(lmmense cheers.) The deputations from various parts of England, expressing the sentiments of millions, had satisfied him that " the lion was roused," but he was anxious the triumph should be obtained at the least possible inconvenience to the people. —(Cheers.) Instead of speaking of the Birmingham, the Manchester, or London Unions, they would have to speak of the Unions of England, Scotland, and Ireland. But it was no use wasting words, though he must declare that it was a piece of daring boldness on the part of the boronghmongers to stand up against the will of a nation.—(Loud cheers.) He however treated them end their infamous efforts with contempt, and they ought to think themselves well off if they escaped without serious animadversion. In 1'795 he first urged the necessity of union to carry Reform, and that object having been effected, the result must follow.—(Loud and long cheers.) By union they were certain of success. The tyrant exclaimed, " Divide and weaken ;" Englishmen exclaimed, " Unite and be free."...- (Bursts of applause.) He would go down to the House with feelings of triumph, and present the petition with which the meeting had honoured hitn.—(Cheers.) He again thanked the meeting, which gave him nine cheers and separated. IMPERIAL PA ULU M ENT THIS EVENING. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Lord EBRINGTON presented a petition from the county of Devon, signed by seventy Magistrates, two hundred clergymen, and nine thousand inhabitants of that county, against the new system of education in Ireland. lie did no: believe th a t i t expresse d t h e op i n i on of the of his constituents, though it was numerously and respectably signed; he differed in opinion from the yeti. tioners ; he considered that the Government were entitled to the thanks of the country for the introduction of the measure. Mr. PR AED was certain that the Noble Earl would find he had been to,sinformed. He believed that this pe tition really spoke the opinion of a very large majority of his constituents. Mr. JOHN WOOD bad a petition to present to the House, in the prayer of which he most cordially agreed. It prayed that that House would atop the supplies until the Reform Bill had passed into a law. The petition came from the large and important town of Manchester.— (Cheers.) It was adopted at a meeting, one oi ote'gar assemblies of which the Hon. Member for ." . ,tioni had spoken so contemptuously. A copy of The 5 . - 444:n:kKheen received in the town by express in . a v ery . tiakirilitairafter the division ;n the Lords, and within a _ Mfr ~~ 1~ ~. few hours this meeting was held, at which upwards or 2,500 people attended, and this petition was the result. So anxious was the feeling in that town, that itometliate'y on the meeting's breaking up, a deputation was sent I fl with the petition, which was intended for the hands of the c..unty Members, but they happening to !nett with him first had intrusted it to him, of which he felt very proud. The King had in an ev:l hour delivered himself over to some faction—some party, whether a man or a woman— (Hear, hear)—he eared not, bat he claimed to himself the privilege of a Member of the House of Com mons to tell the King that be could not remain the Chief Magistrate of the country, supported only by a boroughmongering faction and opposed to the peopl.. It Parliament did not do its duty, the people would (1., theirs—if that House did not stop the supplies ; the Chancellor of the Exchequer would soon find his coff,is would no longer be supplied. A report had been going round that that House was to be dissolved next week—he would thank any Minister who would do so, for it would give the people an opportunity of showing that they had not known what the reaction, of which so much bad been heard in that House, was. It would only be considered the act of a madman, more especially if that man should he either one of the Anti-Reform faction, or if he belonged to that of the false and deceitful " Waverers." Mr. HEYWOOD !supported the petition. Mr. INNES rose to support the petition. Whilst he had a seat in that House, be never would consent to give a shilling of supply until the Reform Bill, in all its effi ciency had passed. He heard that the Duke of Wellington was to be Prime Minister, and that Parliament was to be dissolved on Monday, and that this country was to be governed by a Military Government.—(Hear, hear.) But if soldiers were sent against their fellow-countrymen's swords, bayonets, and dungeone, could net c impel that House to grant supplies. He did not wish that the people of England should arm themselves, there would be no need fur it.— (Hear.) Without a drop of blood being shed they had the means of securing their own right and liberties. Colonel EVANS said be had come from one of those meetings which the Hon. Member for Thetford denomi nated vulgar. Mr. BARING disclaimed having used these expressions wtth the application andmeaning ascribed to them. Colonel EVANS said, that at the meeting he had at tended this morning, the proposition not to pay taxes in money had been propounded, and never had any proposi tion meet with apparently a more hearty and determined concurrence.—( Hear, hear ) Allusion had been made to a great military chief being placed at the head of Government ; the last act of that illustrious person's government, about two years ago was the preparing of a military force to be brought into employment in the city of London. He earnestly hopes that would not be amongst the first employments of his Grace's Goverament should he unfortunately be placed at the bead of his Majesty's Councils. After a desultory conversation, in which Mr. HUME and Mr. BR RING took part, Mr. HUME stated, that he had been requested by a deputation to support the petition, and after having heard it read carefully, he entirely agreed with them as to the measure they pointed out. He was quite statisfied that, notwithstanding what the Hon. Member for Thetford had stated, with respect to unnecessary excitement and clamour that the country was in imminent danger, and he was not one who thought the best friend to the Sovereign, and the best protector of the Crown should and ever to make it permanent by a military force, but by establishing them in the hearts of true and loyal sub jects, and undoubtedly it was the duty of the Commons of England receiving petitions, such as that now presented by the Hon. Member for Preston to listen to their prayers, and constitutionally to exercise that power which they possessed of preventing such evil by refusing the Supplies. Mr. DUNCOMBE was anxious to ask a question in consequence of the excited state of the public mind, and in consequence of reports extremely inju.ious to the poli tical consistency of that Right Hon. Baronet (Peel) hay ing gained circulation today. Precedents every one knew, whether good or bad, in that House, were extremely important. (Hear, hear.) 'The precedent upon which he would go now, was htat of 1812, when a question was asked of Mr. Ponsonby by Mr. Wortley. He would ask the Right lion. lasronet the question in the very words which Mr. Worley bait used on the let of June, 1812—(A laugh)—when the new Administration was being formed.—(Hear, hear.) Whether any persons or person that morning did snake any proposition to the Right Hon. Gent. or his friends to form part of an Administration, and he or they give a refusal, op personal grounds or on what ground? Secondly, whether any one had existed upon him or his friends for any pledge. He should state that a debate had occurred whether Mr. Ponsonby should answer these questions in which Mr. Wynne--(Hear, hear)—expra aged his hope that the House would allow the answers to he given, and also stated that during the administration of Lord North such a course had been adopted. Lord Castlereagh had also stated that although that might be an inconvenient time for putting the questions, there could be no objection to the principles of them standing to clear the character and conduct of publie men. At:which Mr Ponsoby rose and he (Mr,:Duncornlie) was willing to give the Right Honourable Baronet the full benefit of his answer. —" No person whatever, up to this morning, has mace any proposal to the as to any gentleman whom I have the honour to call my friend. In consequence of the reports to which he had alluded, he begged leave to ask these questions of the Hight Honourable Baronet opposite. It was confidently reported that the Right lion. Baronet, and those gentlemen who had opposed all reform had accepted office under the Duke of Wellington, and had given a pledge of granting some species of Par liamentary Reform. Sir ROBERT PEEL was perfectly ready upon any occasion to give an answer consistent with the due dis charge of public duty, but although the opinion of Lord Castlereagh and others had been appointed, he must always exercice his own discretion as to what answers he should return to any questions that might be. put. But questions put in the manner in which the lion. Member had pnt hi., could always command from him that c .urtey and attention whieb was consistent wth public duty. He had no hesitation in stating that be stood there in a private capacity, and the reports referred to by the Hon. Member were entirely without foundation. At the same time, he had not refused office, because he bad received no communication from his Majesty. It was sufficient to say he stood there not in office but in a private capacity, and it was because he thus stood in a private capsciry that he ven tured to entreat the House in the exercise of all its firm ness to exercise as much temper as possible. He had no right to dictate or to suggest to any Member, how lie should conduct himself, but as there was no one in that House authorised to speak on the past of the Crown, at least Members should abstain from adding to the public excitement by the mention of vague rumours which might be unfounded. He recommended Hon. Member was, therefore, to shew as much forbearance as possible in alluding to any such rumours. Lord ALTHORP entirely coincided wi h the advice given by the Right Hon. Baronet. It was truly said last night that the House should put itself forward, and set an example worthy to be imitated in the present state of public affairs, and feeling astonished that he and his colleagues were still legally responsible fur preserving the peace of the countrj, he hoped that no expression which could fall from any Member in that House, would tend to increase the too much agitated state of the country. Nothing would be so injurious to the success of the Reim m measure as anything like an abolition of popular feeling feeling that might led to bloodshed- It was his anxious wish, therefore, to impress on all the absolute ne cessity and his hope that they would not infringe the sacredness of the law.—(Cheers.) Mr. JAMES explained, amidst great noise, in conse quence of the Members leaving the House he could not hear what the Hon. Member said. Mr. HUNT said, that after what he had heard upon this petition, he must congratulate the Country upon the change of feeling which bad taken place in that House with regard to them. Formerly when meetings of the people were spoken of they were called mobs, ragged radi cals, &c., but now because the Hon. Member fur 'Thetford had used some expressions of the sort, he was called and rightly called, to order, and an explana tion required—this was a change indeed. He, on account of these sign., thanked the men of Manchester for producing them. He gave a new Government joy of their coining into offite with a House of Commons attending to the petitions of the nation. Mr. WARBURTON was afraid that tho advice came too late, for the greater part of the supplies were already voted. The people had been advised to pay no attention to the reports which were circulated, but he would give other advice—he would sa y t o th em p a y a ttention t. , every soi u o ti n o e n of o ttbteha t them, for House, tlte and there was sao doing they would great 1 ikeli ho odbe of a 3r prepared i. G w i h L e L n oN candidates,,ould canneiveehref.ogriieve them.ehisupplicating advice tha tiin to the people sh ou ld again ton a haughty ari s t oorac y, who h a d a second e disappointed them. If the supplies could not be stopped,i the peopl e h a d an oth er reme dy i n t h e i r own hands, they cou ld re f use t o p ay t h e t axes ; an d h e for one : declared that if another Government should be ap pointed in place of the present one, he woul,l 'iot pay another shilling of the taxes whirl were levied on him.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Tr,ty might take his body, they might take his goods, but one shilling in money they wo ild never get from him. He concurred entirely in the sentiments expressed in the petition. Mr. O'CONNELL rose, and was LEFT SPEAKING. HOUSE OF LORDS. Lord KENYON premeuted a petition from Kimbolt,n in favour of the Reform Bill.—Laid on the table. Ilia LORDSHIP presented a petition from Denbigh against the new system of education in Ireland.—Laid on the table. Lord CAMPERDOWN presented twenty petitions from different parts of Scotland in favour of the Reform Bill. The feeling in favour of Reform pervaded Scotland from one end to the other. The only dissentients were a few monopolists of power, but the mass of the Scotch were now aware of their rights, and be trusted they would now persist in claiming them. As a Scotch man, he was proud of the numbers that attended the Edinburgh meeting,..-proud of the intelligence there dis played by his countrymen,—proud of the conduct they then pursued. The sentiments of that meeting were now before the House, and the eetitions he held in his hand confirmed those sentiments. It beca , ne them in a crisis like the present, to state the opinion of the country, and he had no hesitation in saying that there was nothing like a re.oction in any part of Scotland. Among the peti tions he now presented was one from the important and populous city of Aberdeen, signed by 8,000 people. The Duke of BUCCLEUGH b egg ed to soy with re. spect to the Edinburgh meeting, that it was convened by persons not resident in that town. There were not, he understood, by a great number so many persons at it as had been reported ; and it was a singular fact, thaf not a worhman employed in different works in the city left his work to attend it. Lord CANIPERDOWN assured the Noble Duke that he was misinformed as to the number present at the Ed inburgh meeting. The Earl of ROSEBERRY bad it from good authority that the numbers present could not be less than 60,000. The Earl of HADDINGTON said that be had heard the number stated at 700 as well as 60,000.--(A laugh.) There were a sufficient number of persons in Scotland to constitute a large body who, although prepared for Reform of some kind, yet feared the consequences of passing the Bill. gi Petitions laid upon the table. Lord MINT° said there was no part of the empire in which the party in favour of Reform was stronger than it was inScotland, The Noble earl presented several pretitions from places in Scotland, praying their Lordships to pass the Reform Bill.—Laid upon the table. The Earl of ROSEBRY presented several petitions from Linlithgow and other places iu Scotland, and asserted that the desire for Reform there had rather 'seen increased than diminished during the last year. The Earl of ELDON said that there being no Bill be fore House for reforming the representation of Scotland, such circumstances had taken place upon that subject were premature. Lord MILTON contended that the people of Scotland had an interest in this subject, and a right to petition upon it.—Laid upon the table. Earl GREY presented a similar petition from Cam bridge, signed by 1,824 people ; also a similar petition from Huddersfi ld, which was agreed to and signed by 500 person. on the very eveniug of the news of the last division of the House of Lords reaching them.—Lsid upon the table. The LORD CHANCELLOR presented a similar peti tion from Sh.ffield. He deprecated the undervaluing of the zeal and numbers of those who attended public meet ings, as being I , kely, at this time of extreme excitement, ut a time of almost unparalleled danger, to receive an alarming contradiction. He had been beets informed by per sons of military habits, accustomed to estimate the numbers who could stand upon a given space of ground. The meeting at Edinburgh was attended by between 40,000 and 50,000 people. As if for fear that tt might be stand that no above 700 persons attended this meeting, the people f Sheffild had signed this petition with 29,200 names.—Laid upon the table. The Duke of DEVONSHIRE presented a similar peti tion.—Laid upon the table. Lord NAPIER presented a similar petition from Mor peth and its neighbourhood.—Laid upon the table. Ttie Duke of HAMILTON presented four similar petitions from Lanark and other places. (LLFT SPEAKING.) THE LONDON GAZETTE THIS EVENING. WHITEHALL, MAI - W. The King has been pleased to direct letters patent to be passed under the Great Seal, granting the dignity of Baron of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, unto the fol lowing persons and the heirs male of their bodies lawfully be gotten, viz. Lord Francis Godolphin Osborne, by the name, stile, and title of Baron Godolphin, of Farnham Royal, in the county of Berks ; Lucius Viscount Falkland, by the name, stile, and title of Baron Hunsdon, of Scutterskelfe, in the county of York ; and Charles Dundas, Esq., by the name, stile, and title of Baron Amesbury, of Kintbury, Amesbury, and Barton-court, in the county of Berks, and of Aston-hall, in the county of Flint. DECLATATION OF INSOLVENCY. GEORGE WHEELER, Clapham, livery-stable-keeper. BANKRUPTS. WILLIAM HENRY HALSEY, Bermondsey-street, South. wark, tea-dealer. JOHN GROUTAGE, Strand, fishmonger. JAMES KENTON, Poplar, linen-draper. JOHN MARSDEN STEWARD, Cornhill, mater-mariner. WILLIAM WILMINGTON, jun. Milborne Port, glove manufacturer. THOMAS JACKSON, Old George-street, Southwark, fruit salesman. GEORGE DEAN, Maidstone, Kent, tallow-chandler. JOHN WOOD, Horsham, Sussex, dealer in eaathenware. EDMUND GOWLAND, Nelson-square, Christchurch, Sur rey, apothecary. JOHN POWELL, Newent, Gloucestershire, grocer. JAMES GEORGE WORTHY, Alphington, Devonshire, corn-factor. WILLIAM THIRST, JOSEPH HIRST, and WILLIAM HIRST, jun., Gomersall, Yorkshire, merchants. ALEXANDER SPEERS CORRICK, Bristol, timber-mer. chant. WILLI AM HENSON, Worcester, lace-manufacturer. JOHN FORD, Bath, bookseller. AUGUSTINE AGLIO, Smedley, near Manchester, dealer. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. 110 USE OF COMMONS, BL 10. Concluded fromour Second Edition of Last Night. Daring the exeluvion of strangers the Sheriffs and Re membrancrr of the city of London appeared at the bar with the petition of the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Com mon Council, which was agreed to by the Common Coun cil to day. Its presentation was attended with a short discussion, an outline of which we have been favoured with. It is as follows : Mr. Alderman WOOD, in moving that the petition be read at length, said he was prevented by a domestic calamity from being present at the meeting at which it was got up. - The petition was then read. Mr. Alderman WAITHNIA.N concurred in the prayer of the petition. He thought it a great mischief to the country that the House of Lords bad so conducted themselves as to interrupt the progress of the Reform Bill.—(Cheers.) Mr. BARING distinctly disclaimed the expression. Mr. HUME understood Idol to impute it, but what was the consequence? Did Earl Grey accept office with. out condition? No. He accepted the seals of office pledged to bring about Parliamentary Reform, as extensive as in his view should satisfy the wishes of the country. Not a Reform hastily concocted, not brought forward by one who had not considered the question, but by one who, in 1793, had laid on that table d sufficient proof that he had duly considered the suhject. What ever explanation should take place in the last step of their Ministerial career, it ought to be taken in connexion with the condition on which office had been accepted. It was impossible to suppose that the Ministers could have acted otherwise than they have done, considering the pledge that they had given to carry Reform. He would not say where the blame rested, but certain he was that a great difference of Opinion had taken place. It was impossible, however, from the step that they hail taken, that Ministers could be in the wrong. —(Laughter. He would now come to the point why this House was called on to take some decided measure at this important period. It would be recollected that as soon as Earl Grey and his colleagues had arranged a plan of Reform, which they considered perfectly satisfactory, they brought it forward on the Ist of March, 1831. The House would recollect what expectations were abroad, and what various opinions existed as to the extent of Reform that was to he proposed, and at List the balanced de t s h ec a rd hi r s ead l in a j g e : ty b c o i t n s i i: Noble Lord op schemepo s ite. throughodhtohnwe n ti Russe ll)th ' o a rl t a ho m en e ntrit'ie."l'Tee t.l—mosf March ( e extent of the first Reform Bill, b nicelyrou g h v, t .as his n must explain why the means operation, Hear.) who end of its d, T voe l I.en House a wana rdet carried hdeoist,the e d r es t e of carrying it into e ffect were nut given at once to his es y Nia• t ' Ministers, and w hy his Majesty. referr e d the J question to hi s people. Did ever Monarch rece i ve a tribute f greater rettpect and admiration than his Majesty had for :he manly manner which be came down to support Lord Grey? Finding the Bill placed in such a position, the King, on the 22d of April, dissolved the Parliament, mid 'tated in his speech from the Throne, that be was in fueed to resort to that measure, in order to tacertain the wishes of his people in a way the most constitutionally to be obtained on the expediency of making sech changes in the representation as the circumstances required, and which were founded on the best principles of the Constitution. Upon that a general election took place, and what was the result ? Did not the country respond to the call of the King ? Did they not take the very Bill and all its parts into con sideration ? Did net the ultra-Reformers make their objections ?—(Cheers.) And did not the more timid ex tend their views for the purpose of adopting a measure suck as would satisfy the just expectations of reasonable men ? The new Parliament then met, and his Majesty, in his speech from the throne, said that hr felt it his duty to recommend to their careful con sideration the question of Reform in the representation, as it was a question getting daily of greater importance to the people. A Bill was then introduced which, although it varied in some trifling items, was substantially the same as the former one.—(Loud cheers.) What, had the Ministers a right to expect from that speech, and from its having been known on many occa sions, that it was the desire of the King that the measure should be carried ? What was the country to expect when the Ministers had declared that they would hold office no longer than they could see a fair prospect of carrying the Bill, and when eventually that Bill was carried through this House by a majority of 116, under the greatest opposi tion ever manifested on any occasion whatever ?—( Cheers. ) It was sent to the Upper House, where it was read a first time ; it was also read a second time by a majority of nine —hut under what circumstance? Seventy-six of the influen tial Members of the House entered a protest, declaring the measure to be revolutionary—to be destructive of all that was valuable in eta constitution—and as putting an ex tinguisher upon the Monarchy.—(Cheers.) He asked any honourable man to judge of the conduct and of the declarations of those individuals ?—(Cheers.) He would advise the Hon. Member for Thetford, (Mr. Baring) to go to some of the public meetings which he so loudly denounced, instead of visiting certain political clubs--(Great cheering.) He held those meetings as superior to those political clubs. He asked the House whether the observations of those individuals to whom he had alluded were fit to be addressed to an assembly of grown of persons?—(Laughter.) Ssch an attempt to assail the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers was futile. As to the professions of certain Noble Lords, who stated that they would honestly go into Committee on the Bill, he must state that he much doubted their honesty. Oae of the conservatives, as they were called, had declared that he would not disfranchise one of the rotten boroughs.— (Hear, hear, hear.) Geod God ! only think of having an Administration formed of such persons.--(Cheers.) As to the architect of the structure, who, he understood, was a Noble and Learned Lord—one of the Judges—it was an insult to the people; he referred to the public principles of that Noble Lord. If the Hon. Member fur Thetford had forgotten what took place in this House, he had not, for he well recollected the changes of opinion that that Noble Lord, when he sat in that House, had expressed. There was not an old woman in the country who would trust his opinion for five minutes --(Loud laughter and cheers)—and yet, that Noble Personage was to be at the head of the Administration ! There was then a Noble Duke who brought in a little bit of a Bill—(Laughter)—and who was the ornament of the conservatives.—(Laughter.) If the Hun. Member for Thetford thought that be was addressing himself in sober morality—and cure he was that the Hon. Member's stand ing in that House and in the country entitled him to much attention—but, however, if be thought that he was addressing himself to any but the Holy Alliance, he (Mr. Hume) could tell him that he would draw by lot 15 weavers, 15 carpenters, and 15 shoemakers, who should convince him in a minute that his argument was worth nothing.—(Cheers and laughter.) He would show the Hon. Member that the confidence of the people could not be placed in other hands than those who by his Majesty's sanction supported a measure they were intrusted with, and who had every desire to bring it to a happy conclusion.—(Cheers.) He declared that be cause for eighteen months the feelings of the people had been wound up to the highest degree, even the affairs of the State had been partially stopped by the progress of the 1331, and all seemed anxious to give up a little, in order to secure to themselves so great a boon. Was it too much to say that the King had given the Ministers and the country reason to expect that the measure would be carried, and that the people had met with disap pointment—that their hopes had been destroyed by a proceeding which threatened consequences of which no man might live to see the result.—(Loud cheers.) He could conceive very readily what had taken place— what ill-advisers there had been—(Cheers)—what ad visers there had been behind the Throne.—(Loud and tremendous cheering)—for there he believed they were. Let those persons be unmasked.—(Loud cheers.) If he had the power he would unmask them, and he pomised that be would yet expose them to the public view and the public gaze.—(Continued cheering.) The Hon. Member for Thetford had alluded to the other sex, talking of conduct towards her, with a view of cast ing a slur on her character. He (Mr. Hume), as a Reformer, was hound to say that the Hon. Member was ill advised in introduciog that subject ; but if individuals of either sex, instead of directing their attention to other matters, would interfere in questions of this kind, let them take the consequence of their own conduct.—(Chers.) It would be better if the Hon. Member had not mentioned the subject, and he (Mr. Hume) hoped that what that Honourable Member had stated, and what he now stated, would be the last reference of the kind upon that subject. —(Hear, hear.) He repeated what he had stated over and over again in his warning to his Majesty's Ministers, in keeping the enemies of Reform in office. He had alluded to those persons by name, of whom Lord Hill was one. There was one friend of hie (Mr. Hume's) who had been removed because he would not support Reform. He did not complain of that removal, but he complained that the same measure of justice was not meted out to all parties.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—lle hail his fears all along that there was some intrigue against Reform, eehtaittnhppoe a uttnloh n be.le d iil?irtsgo: w titeiitiai l do, t ,il e ni:r a ; it came to the knowledge of the Ministers that the friends of his Majesty were voting against Reform, they would be unworthy of the confidence of the country if they had not taken the steps that they did. He implored the House to judge of the whole of their conduct from the first day they entered office under a pledge to introduce Re form. They bad, as far as they could, redeemed their pledge, and proved their intentions by their acts, and he thought that no other step was left for them but to resign. The question then was, what persons were to succeed them? 'Was it the Right Hon. Baronet below him (Sir R. Peel) ? That Right Hon. Baronet, when he resigned his office, was asked if it was in conse• quence of the vote on the Civil List ? He answered it was not; but that as the question of Reform was to be brought forward, he retired after the vote on the Civil List, on account of the motion for Reform. The Duke of Wellington had retired, because he stated that he was a decided enemy to all Reform, and that the Con stitution of the House of Commons, as it existed at present, was the best that could be devised.— After applying every screw they could to the Right Hon. Baronet for the space of 18 months, did he not still declare that he would not bring forward a measure of Re form ; and as he was a man of his word, he (Mr. Hume) was sure that he would not. He did not deny that some m easure of Reform might now he brought forward and passed, but what they had to look to, and what the people had to look to, were the means of carrying this measure of Reform.—(Hear, hear, bear.). — He did not care about alterations in the details, but he must have Schedule A, and Schedule 13, with all the other improvements and enfran chisetnents they hail agreed to. He was willing to take scot and lot voting in addition, but he did not ask for it, because his wish was to pass that measure which had received the almost unanimous ap probation of the people at every meeting at which they had assembled. The principal cause of his having been disorderly was, the Hon. Gentleman below him having de clared, in the simplicity of his heart, that he dial not suppose an y one connected with a cl eaie borough, and nominated in this House lay a Peer,. acted from any other motives than from an interest in the welfare of the kingdom. The Honourable Gentleman could never have looked into any of the Red and lie could never joaniva.manner in which gecrkepAaLaitield'isniutbsaii?rwoyrlititairictiehltsleynohtsfaiaoditndhiotm: Members always voted together upon particular [nee. BUIVS• Che ways voted in support of the privileges anal interests of the Crown, but could he say that they never voted in sup. waspor of surprisedtl ae th a e n i d , 0 i n n . teLes e i t i s ibt o r f , r t e h i e me p d eo boroughs as harmless ingredients in the constitution Why he had himself heard it stated in another pl ace t h aC many members of that other place had risen to their seat. there through the filth and ordure of rotten boroughs. When this was the case, how could these people be talked of as high-minded and chivalrous for laughing publie opinion to scorn ? If it were true that a large portiue of the House of Peers bad risen front the rnass of the pea. pie, through the means of the rotten boroughs, it was natural that they should wish to preserve the source from which they sprung, in order that their House might con tinue to be replenished front it. But nut only were the means by which those personages attained to their seats filthy, but di graceful, ter they had attained to them by tracking in the interests of the pe,.- ple, by being slaves to different Ministers.—(Hear, hear, and loud cries of No, no.) Members disapproved of what he said, but at: the 151 persons to whom he alluded had spoken in a manner derogative to the people, he bad a right to expose them in their proper colours.--(Cheers.) The language used by some ef them was ill-becoming the situation they held, as compared with that of the represen tation of the people. Such being one of the visible effects then of the rotten borough system, it was requir ing too much of their credulity, to induce him to believe that rotten boroughs had never influenced that House. But it was said, as an argument against the Reformers, that they had the Universities against them. But by whom were the Members returned? Not by the laity wh o were members of the University, and who were all in fa vour of Reform, but by the clergy ; and when they saw what was taking place in the other House, amongst the dignitaries of the Church, whose conduct was perhaps natural, looking up as they did to the large in comes they might obtain by preferments, but looking to that conduct, was it surprising that the inferior clergy should also consult self-interest ? He had, however, no hesitation in declaring, that the large majority of the property of this country was decidedly in favour of the Bill. If all who drew money from the public purse, the reduction of whose numbers was one of the objects of the Bill, were deducted, he was sure that the number of Anti-Reformers would be found small indeed, The Hon. Member for Thetford spoke with contempt of the citizens of London, because of the petition they had presented that evening, and of its being much better for them to mind their own business.—(Cries of No, no.) The Hon. Member certainly said it was a foolish pe tition, and wished the House to pay no respect to it. He however told the House that it would not do its duty if they did not use the constitutional power they pos sessed of controlling the public expenditure. If they saw that the Ministers appointed to manage their affairs were incapable, from their past conduct and practices, of carrying the Reform Bill to a fortunate issue, what ought to be their con duct. Ought it not to he to appoint Parliamentary Com missioners to take charge of the public purse ?—(Cheers.) He was fully prepared to go that length, and he was sure the people would back him—(A laugh)—by every means it was possible for them to back one of their representatives in this House. Hon. Members might laugh, but they were like an ignorant man on the edge of a volcano, who laughed because he did not know the situation in which he stood. He said, then, that they were bound to counsel his Majesty in the present excited state of the country ; and, if their counsel was not taken, they were hound to exert that control over the public expenditure which they legitimately might. He said, the control they might legitimately exercise ; for, in looking to the history of that House, he found they hail always claimed to them selves the right of having grievances redressed before money was advanced.—( Loud cheers.) The Hon. Mem • her below him seemed to think it a kind of heresy to talk of refusing to vote money to Ministers, but in the pre sent suffering state of the country, they would not do what the people expected of them, if they did not go that length, and certainly they would neglect their duty. He thought Ministers were right in not trying for another twelvemonth what could be done with a mongrel set, as be had shown the conservative Peers to be. It was not upon a matter of form, but .a matter of essence that Ministers resigned, fur the very first proposal made to them in that House was totally to disfran chise all boroughs with a population below two thousand, and partially all which had a population below 4,000. The Noble Lord opposite did nut propose to go backwards, like a Noble Peer in another place, by first enfranchising some large towns, for the purpose of seeing how little disfranchisement was wanting. He thought Ministers perfectly right in asking his Majesty to have such confidence in them as to be permitted to create as many Peers as were necessary. Less than 60 would not have doge—(Cheers)—and he would not object to 100. But he was certain that if a carte blanche bad been given, it would not bare been found necessary to create 10 Peers, and the cause of so bold a game being played in the other House was that some little bird bad whispered that the King would not do what was reqUired of him. Seeing that such was the state of things, he thought Ministers perfectly justified in resigning, and trusted that the country and tie House would uphold them. Mr. BARING, in explanation, denied having said more of the London petition than that it was unwise and foolish, or that he had intended to cast any reflection upon a cer tain exalted body. Mr. HUME said that the Hon. Member had as serted that the petition of the citizens of London was a foolish petition, and onght to ineapacitate them from pe titioning. He was a citizen of London himself, and felt that that expression was a great insult. Lord MORPETH hoped to be allowed to add a few words to what had already been said as to the contem plated retirement of the Ministry, because a relation of though not immediately connected with the Govern went, still held a place in the Cabinet. He had no doubt but that the advice tendered by the Government to his Majesty was a large, or at least an adequate creation of Peers, in order to secure the success of the Reform Bill. He was justified i p y . _ the (L. u circumstances and one who would say it w as a very v i o l en t s t e p, an d one that would form a bad p rece d ent , an d one w hi c h cou ld continued in w cheering. h c o o n u ly ntr be ; was jfie i d b a ed He entirely concurred i n th e a dd ress wh i c h ha d b een proposed by his Nobl e F r i en d. H e regretted the cause on many accounts ; be r egret t e d i t b ecause it was tea iih the ) suddenly placed before them —he regretted it on account of his majewty—he regretted that it put in jeopardy the peace and comfort of his reign.—(Loud cheers.)-- He regretted it on account of the removal of the Government, which, unless that House stopped, it would soon be removed from the helm of affairs. They had nobly done their duty by the Reform Bill ; by it they ought to stand or fall, but their conduct on it had been most praiseworthy.—(Cheers.) Upon other grounds also they deserved the praise of that House. (Hear, hear.) They had secured to their country and they had secured to Europe during the most troublous times, the great blessing of carried off their character and consistency with honour— (Hear, hear)—if they yet were permitted to retire, and they would carry along with them the plaudits anal blessings of the whole nation.—(Hear, hear, and chem.) He regretted their retirement, because it would give a triumph not to the Tories—not to the Con servative Party, as they called themselves—their day had gone by for ever—but it was calculated to give a triumph—a decided triumph to the extreme Radi cals, who founded their hopes upon mischief.—(A single cheer from some lion. Member here broke out.) The Noble Lord hoped that the Hon. Member who cheered that expression was not one who funded his hopes upon mischief.—(Cheers.) It was calculated to give a triumph to those who carried their views perhaps honestly much further than reason would allow. Theirs was a secret triumph, and theirs, unless the real friends of peaceful Government took good care, theirs, he said, would be the lasting triumph. He remetn bered so long ago as the general election before last —(laughter)—when he had the honour of canvassing the county of York along with the present Lord Chancellor; he remembered at that time, it was long before the French or the Belgian revolutions, he heard from all parties, be heard from all those who were well affected towards the country, that a Reform would be a real blessing to the country ; that it would be a real blessing if the various professors of Reform could be brought to concur in any one general scheme which would give a resting-place to future generations. This much looked-for, and al most despaired-of consummation would have been got at by the Reform Bill. He did not dread any harm to the cause of Reform—it was secure, but he dreaded the disturbed state of the country. What was the conduct of the party who had thrown out the Bill ? They would go the whole length of schedule A, at least they professed so ; but was their conduct at all of a spirit with the intentions they professed? Suppos ing a change of the Ministry to take place, who could they look for as Leader of that House but the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth, and could they possibly expect that he would charge himself with a responsibility, such as a Bill of Reform would carry along with it, as would satisfy the country? Mr. ROBINSON was anxious not to give a silent vote upon the Address which had been proposed, because it might be thought that he gave unbounded confidence to his Majesty's Ministers. In his opinion, the Address merely went to say that that House only meant that it would sup. port that Bill for Reform which they • had before passed. He would give no opinion on the conduct of the Government as to their resignations—they roust be the best judges of that themselves; but it was important for the country, as well as for the Crown, to know what was the opinion of the House of Commons on the subject of Reform. It was neces sary while his Majesty was employed in the formation of another Ministry—he said it was important that his Majesty should be made acquainted that no Ministers would have the confidence of that House noless they brought 'onward a measure of Reform as efficient as the BM which had already been passed.—( Hear, hear.) — Commerce had been languishing, the people had been suf fering, there had been a total want of confideence, and until this question was brought to a filial conclusion, he (Mr. IL) declared lie could not venture to contemplate without dismay and apprehension the consequences that must result from a protraction of this question. It had been said it would be better to concede Reform by degrees. This he denied altogether. If the Lords hat passed this measure as it was sent to them, it would hare set at rest for a great many years the question of Reform; and whatever Ministers might be in office, this measure of Reform must be carried.—(Hear.) It was 'not a question whether we were to have Reform to this extent or not, but he verily believed it was whether we were to have it now or hereafter ; whether we were to have it now, or after the country had been kept in sus pense and uneasiness for some years yet to come ? He de clared he could not see Low any one like himself who had supported the measure of Reform, could be recreant enough, as he would be, if he were to do any thing now to defeat the cause—(Loud cheers)—recreant enough to injure the question of Reform by not supporting the pre sent motion, and indeed every step towards accomplishing Celt most desirable end.--(Loud cheers.) Lord SANDON rose, but spoke in a tone so low as to he almost totally inaudible. We understood him to say that it was a matter, in his opinion, of the utmost im portance that this question should be set at rest. He regretted the course that Government had pursued. He had no objection to the motion, therefore he should support it, because he thought it was necessary to assure his Majesty of the continued feeling in favour of Reform which prevailed in that House.—(Cheers.) The Lords must have known long ago that they would be placed in the situation in which they now stood, if they intended to carry the Bill unimpaired and unrnutilsted in any way. If they could have carried the main objects of the Bill they ought to have been content. Surely we must have been aware of the almost total impracticability of carrying so great a measure as this unrnutilated, without having the whole House of Lords in favour of the Bill—(Hear, bear, hear)—but be had hoped his Majesty's Ministers would have been content with the advantages to have been derived from carrying the main branches of this sweeping measure. He believed the great and vital interests of the country depended on a speedy settlement of this question. It the Ministry had been content with what they might have carried, the public in the course of one week would have swallowed tl e affront which Ministers might have had to brook, from not being able to carry the :rest measure entire. He thought it impossible that the same Minis ters, without a reconstruction of the House of Lords, could ever carry so great a measure as this; at the same time he certainly regretted that the conduct of this measure should not still have been left in the hands of the same Ministers. Whoever the Ministers in office might be, the great principle of Reform would un doubtedly have to he carried, and the longer that was delayed, so much the longer would the stagnation of trade be protracted, and every branch of commerce in a greater or less degree be put a atop to. All minor con siderations ought to be given up ; and Hon. Members and Noble Lords would do well to lend their shoulders to help forward the great cause so much to be desired, that that Reform might be accomplished which undoubtedly would have to be effected.—(Loud cheering.) Sir ROBERT PEEL said the Noble Lord who had just sat down had imposed a duty on hint which, under the circumstances, he would be content to have slipped front under, that of stating to the House why he dissented from the present motion. After the discussion which had taken place in that Hones for the last eighteen months, it would be absurd in him not to suppose that his opinion respecting those revolutions differed from the majority of that House. But he saw nothing in the circumstances of the present times which would induce him to shrink in the slightest degree from ex pressing that opinion, whether it was in accordance or in dis sent front the opinions of the majority of that House. He differed front those resolutions, because he did not par ticipate in the confidence which others entertained re specting them. He differed from them, because - hedid not agree as to the expediency of the mea su r es they ' n ou g ht forward. He differed from them because lie considered those resolutions which they had heard of within the last three hours, to establish a precedent dangerous at all times, but particularly under the cironmstancee under which they were at present placed. He differed the more with those resolutions as they advocated that extensive change in the constitution of that House which had been so lone established. He retained the opinions which he had expressed with respect to the measure ; he retained them unabated, notwithstanding the language of Hon. Gentlemen; notwithstanding the Hon. Gentle man's proposition behind him (Mr. Hume) to withdratv the 'vote of the supply to the Crown, and to vest the money in Commissioners. He had heard nothing. on the present occasion calculated to diminish his apprehen sions as to the tendency of the measure which had -been proposed, should it be passed into a law.—(Loud cheers.) If they were about to make the extensive change in: the Constitution of that House which had been proposed— if they were about to make that House the express image, not of the del:berate sentiments of the people, but of popular impulse, he dreaded the consequences ; but he looked with particular regard at any precedents now to be established, which were likely to confirm that disposition to infringement, which he consi dered would be the consequence of the extension of suffrage now proposed : the change would be no doubt to make that House the mere -reflection of the popular voice. As he bad always urged, he did net see how, if Parliament was to carry the measure to the ex tent to which a disposition had been shown to carry it- e -he did not see how they could reconcile that reformed house of Parliament, a Parliament formed by the voice, as some said might be by the paysical gra ngth of the people;. how they could reconcile that with the existence of any mixed Government. That was to be viewed with parti cular apprehension. The House therefore would nut he surprised that he differed from the resolutions of the Noble Lord and the Honourable Gentleman cippoeite, and he certainly thought the period of bringolg jot ward this motion was not a well judged time.—(Hear.) Such was the opinion of the Noble Lord who had been for the last eighteen months the leader of that House. If he had wanted other authority as to the impropriety of the terms of the resolution, he would refer the Noble Lord who had brought it forward to the Member for Middlesex, who had been more com municative with respect to the resolution than the Noble, Lord. He hail repeated the accusation, which never cou'd be made against the Noble Lord, that he was acting for tl purpose of opposing the Crown ; and the Hon. Member, in snaking the observations he had done, had made a most unnecessary vindication of the Noble Lord. In the course, however, of his observations, he had made some rather important disclosures. He had stated that the Noble Lord never meant anything disrespectful to the Crown; and that lie (the Hon. Member for Middlesex) had never contemplated so wild a resolution. The speech of the Hon. Member went to show that a great increase of the House of Peers was necessary. The Hon. Member had taken down words, so had he (Sir Robert Peel).. — (Hear, hear.) The author of the resolution had said be thought it necessary to express unabated confidence in his Majesty's Ministers, in consequence of the . course they had taken in demanding such an additiOn to the House of Peers. Sixty he had said would have been a good numb e r—but 100 would be m uc h more accept ecyo,ul,dvinthot respect agree toto the ee general t ra re l s c o o lu u t r i s o e n, po w rs b u ic ed h expressed unabated confid ence i n Mi n i sters. He was boundaccept able.H to say, by Government, he did not wish to be considered as using any harsh expressions, or to give offence ; but he felt himself bound to say, that the conduct pursued by Government with respect to this measure did not entitle them to that unabated confidence which the resolution proposed to give them. By the resolution proposed by the Noble Lord, the House was called upon to give unabated confidence to Ministers, who had thought fit to retire from his Majesty's Counsels, without the House having any information, without its having the least explanation of the reasons which had induced them to do so. That was pursuing a course much greater than it had ever done before, and was too much to re quire of the House. He (Sir R. Peel) could not conceive a more fatal measure to the interests of the country than the creating of a certain number of Peers to carry a certain measure.—(Tremendous cheering from the Opposition.) What was the use of talking about the authority of Parlia ment, when the Noble Lord who was the author of the resolution said give me 60 or 80 Peers as asarte blanche, in order that I may overrule the House of Peers ? A Noble Lord bad said that it would riot be any disgrace to the escutcheons of the Peers of the country that a gre at addition should be made to the Peerage. That might or might not be so ; but lie feared that the adoption of tee h a course would establish a bad precedent, and oat i" Governments might take advantage of it for no good purpose.—(Cheers.) It had been said that the resolution could not be properly discossed without going into the whole que s ti on again. lie should b e extreme l y sorry to be called upon to adopt suc h a course. He did not consider the adoption of it nece seary—the main gist of the ques tion dependi n g upon the proposal s whi c h h a d b een made by Ministers t o hi s Majesty. No man could doubt that those Noble Peers who voted for the second reading