The Sun. — London, England, 1832-02-07 00:00:00

o be, pursued- During the lot year. the Noble Lord had Made four financial statements, or rather four edi.ions of statements, varying from the editions of other work in this point, that instead of containing further materials, the materials in one edition after the other were retrenched and corrected. Under each of these arrangements, the Noble Lord contemplated a surplus revenue; and he (Mr. Goulburn) congratulated the country that the Budg e t, as originally proposed by the Noble Lor d, was not persevered in. For the Noble Lord and his colleagues, with a rashness and temerity which astonished not only him (Mr. Goulburn), hut every sober man in the House, had, in the first instance, proposed a Budget, which, if it had been persisted in, would have occasioned a deficiency probably double or treble that which at present existed. When the N, , ble Lord, however, brought for .vard his final Budget be (Mr. Goulburn) said that he was persuaded it was founded on a very erroneous calcu lotion, and that he was apprehensive the surplus would b eery small, if indeed there was not a deficiency. To this the Noble Lord made answer (and the answer was by many persons considered very satisfactory), that his calcu• lation had no references like the calculations of the Chan cellors of the Exchequer of former years, to a long period, liable to numerous accidents affecting our resources—that he calculated at the expiration of three-fmrths of the year--that his Budget, therefore, only anticipated one qu wter of the year, and could hardly be erroneous. He (Mr. Goulburn) confessed he did not entirely abandon his fears ; hut the countenance of the Noble Lord, and the reesons which the Noble Lord urged. induced him to en tertain some doubts whether he might not be mistaken. Subsequent circumstances, however, led him more than ever to believe that he was right. The. House were pro hahly aware of the view taken of the state of our finances in another place by a Noble Duke, who had been First Lord of the Treasury, and who expressed his apprehension that the calculations of Government were not well founded, and that there would not be any surplus. That Noble Duke, net more distinguished by foresight in his military charac ter than for his power in civil affairs of anticipating the ef fect of any measures that came under his notice--(Hear, hear)--maid that on the best view he could take of the ferances of the country, the surplus, if any, would not ex ceed 10,000/. But the Noble Duke was met by the First Lord of the Treasury in terms which, if the House per mitted him, he would read ; for he was very unwilling to incur the least danger of misrepresentation. The Noble Carl's words were—" The Noble Duke had stated what was the amount of the expenses of the last year, and what were the means of meeting it ; and he states that a con siderable surplus of revenue remained undisposed of, and has entered into calculations to show that, for the current year, the surplus will amount to no more than 10 0001 Now, ley Lords, after making allowance for the loss sue t tined by the repeal of the coal tax and every other less peculiar to the year, I find that the surplus will amount to at least 493,0001." Then came a striking paragraph : " The Noble Duke finds fault with us, which is nothing more t- an Le has always done. But, my Lords, we are now speaking after three-fourths of the year has elapsed. Weil, we can speak with certainty as to the amount of revenue received during those three-quarters ; and as to the probable receipts during the quarter now running, w• can speak with the same degree of certainty in comparison with the other three-quarters, and we know the amount of the set vice required during the year we are now in." In a subsequent passage the Noble Earl repeated this state ment in still stronger terms :—" Now, as to the expen diture, judging by the three-quarters which have gone by, we are enabled to calculate pretty accurately what it will , he far the whole year. The total expenditure for that year (comprehending the interest and management of the notional debt, funded and unfunded, and the expence of the army, navy, ordnance, pensions and all other charge'.), we estimate in round numbers at 46,756,0130/., which will leave a surplus of 493,000/., so that your Lordships will perceive, that estimating the receipts of the quarter yet to come, and the expenditure of the quarter yet to come, by the actual receipts and expenditure of the three quarters already past—which I think is not an un fair mode of forming a judgment—we calculate with con- 1 fi,lence that the surplus of revenue above expenditure on the year will amount to 493,0001., instead of 10,000/., as stated by the Noble Duke. The calculations on which this conclusion has been come to, were taken under as un favourable circumstances as they well could be taken. It might he possible for me to take credit for a much greater sum as surplus revenue, but I trust I have stated enough to convince your Lordships that the financial interests of the country have not been neglected, and that the country is not in a situation in which it ought to be considered as incapable of meeting any expenditure which has occurred, or which is at all likely to occur."—Again " I hope that I have sufficiently shown the result—founded on a knowledge of the receipts and expenditure of the three last quarters—that there is a surplus revenue of faur hundred and ninety-three thousand pounds. If 1 wished I might have stated the result more advantageously to myself, and made the excess appear greater." Now, he begged to ask what must have been the anticipations of tl.e country from such a speech as that made by the First Lord of the Treasury ? That, of course, the Noble Lord had made an accurate calculation, and that the surplus would be such as he had stated. At what period was the Noble Earl's speech made? Not like that of the Noble Lord opposite, seven days before the quarter day, when the accounts of the year were made up, hut on the 17th of October, seven days after the accounts of the income and expenditure of the year had been actually made up at tie Treasury. Shortly after the Noble Earl's speech appeared a notice in the Gazette, that the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury having certified to the Commissioners for the reduction of the national debt, that the actual expen diture exceeded the surplus by the sum of 25,537/. 18s. I Id. the Commissioners would apply no further sum on account of the sinking fund. That notification was to him (Mr. Goulburn) a surprise. And surely it must have surprised the First Lord of the Treasury, who had declared that he had accurately weighed all the circumstances of the condi tion of the country, and that he expected a surplus of 493.0001. To find that from accounts made up a week previously to his statement, so far from any surplus, it ap peered that there was an actual deficiency of above 20,0001. He by no means charged the Noble Earl with any inten time to deceive the ceuntry, by making an exaggerated statement. He had the highest respect for the Noble Earl's moral character, but he was driven by the facts of the ease to charge the Noble Earl with an utter neglect of the duties of his office, and of the necessity of looking into its details, and stating to Parliament the result of his examination. He was well aware that the Noble Earl was in a situation in which he had high and laborious du ties to fulfil, but he must also say, that, of all those duties, no one was so important as a due attention to the tiaances of the country. It was true the Noble Lord might have been engaged in assisting the Noble Paymaster to frame a new Constitution—or in assisting the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs in those Conferences ie which lie bore so distinguished a part—(Laughter)--or in assisting the Premier in the di-interested distribution of patronage to the very numerous relatives and connections and friends of the First Lord of the Treasury - (Loud laughter and etreers)-e.hut he could not avoid thinking that the Noble Loud wz;nld have b, , st consulted his own character as a Statesman, and the interests of the country, if he bad con descended to go down to the Treasury and look a little into the accounts of his own particular department, so as to be able, when he appeared before that House, to give statements not calculated to display a delusive advent •ge, and terminate in the disappointment and injury of the people..--(Hear, hear, hear.) The statement he had alluded to took place on the 17th of October. It de clared a surplus, which it was necessary afterwards to eonsradict in the Gazette. And he thought the Noble Lord (Grey) hada right to complain of his colleagues in office for not informing him of the error into which be had been betrayed.--(Loud cheers.) Was it possible that in such a Cabinet there was no one capable of giving the Noble Lord one moment's salutary advice.---(Hear, and lau g ht er.) Surely his Noble Friend (Lord Godelich) who had been bred up in a school wherein it was under stood, that if you attempt to administer the finances of the country, you must at least read the accounts—(Great cheering)—surely he who had been so long himself a Chancellor of the Exchequer, could not possibly, if the accounts had been laid before the Cabinet, after the same manner as all preceding Administrations, he could not have stood by and permitted the Noble Earl to fall into that mistake,—(Cheers.) Even the Right Hon. Secretary opposite must have felt it his d u t y to i nform him that he was in error. But no, this could not be the case ; for Parliament met again on the 18th, the 19th, and the 20th. And yet no member of the Administration—no supporter of the Government, ventured to hesitate or doubt. --(Cheers.) Then look to the speech from the throne. Here, though Ministers seemed to be sadly puzzled, there was v e ry little, indeed, about the financial steee of the c ountry. They heard a great deal of the Bankrupt Bill,—(Hear, and laughter.) Thu Game Bill was highly lauded.—( Hear, and laughter.) But nothing was said about the revenue, except that the expenditure had been greater than was anticipated. But yet it was trusted that all the necessities of the country would be adequately provided for without the imposition of any farther taxes. He hoped the House would not condemn him for taking the Bret practical opportunity of calling their attention to this subject, and of giving the Noble Lord an opportunity of setting right his financial character, and removing those regrets and apprehensions which prevailed amongst the Ifreoole• It would he extremely gratifying to him if die Noble Lord could give a satisfactory explanation of the past end still more so, if he could give them such information :5 to the future, as would relieve the apprehensions of the country as to the mode in which the financial affairs of the empire—which were, after all, the most important —would be managi.d. Lord ALTHORP could assure the Eight Hon. Gentle man that he felt it would be very absurd, were he to com plain of his taking the first practical opportunity of bring ing forward the complaint which he had just made. In answer to what had been urged by the Right lion. Gen tlemsn, it was his duty to give, in defence of himself and th e First Lord of the Treasury, the grounds on which !hey made the statements the Right Hon. Gentleman had alluded to. It would also be, he admitted, his duty to state what he hoped and believed the prospects of the Government were. The Right Hon. Gentleman had accused them of having deceived Parliament, by stating their expectations of a surplus of about 500,0001. while, in fact, on the other hand, there was a deficiency of 700,000/. Now the House had frequently heard him state that, in his opinion, a large surplus revenue, for the purpose of going into a sinking fund for the discharge of the debt, was not desirable. At the same time he was always ready to admit, that the situation of a deficiency was such as it was the duty of the House and of the Go vernment, if at all possible, to avoid ; therefore, he could not differ from the Right Hon. Gentleman in re :Jetting the deficiency, though he could not go the full length with him in thinking that deficiency had produced alarm anti dissatisfaction amongst the people.—(Hear, h e ar.) As to the statement made on the 17th of October, the Right lion. Gentleman had truly said, that they had declared they had better grounds to go upon at that period than could have been expected at the beginning of the year. This he had stated then, in answer to the Right Hon. Gentleman, when he said that he (Lord Althorp) was cal culating from a surplus on too small a scale. Then, as on for mer occasions, he stated, that in his opinion the surplus needed not to be so large ; and now, as to the grounds on which they had rested their expectations of a surplus, he hail to declare, tit it, according to the best calculations that could lie made, it appeared to them, after the most deep consideration, that they were safe in stating the surplus lie (Lord Althorp) did state as likely to accrue. But, said the Right Hon. Gentleman, there was actually a defi ciency at this period. He (Mr. Goulburn) did not consi aer the circumstances of the case. They had the expen • diture of three quarters before them, and, as for the first quarter, they had asked for the expenditure and the result at taxation—namely, the receipts. These were the ;rounds on which they proceeded ; and in matters on which chance could have any share, they were as safe as any grounds could well be. It was upon these grounds he had stated the surplus of the revenue which he antici pated. He must admit, that on one part of these grounds his information had not been correct. In the last quar ter the beer duties expired, and, consequently, no mentian of them did teally occur in the last quarter. This un loubtedly led him into an error as far as 350,000/. (Laughter.) lie did not wish to deceive the House. It they thought him in error, he was bound to suffer fur it ; but never would he attempt to deceive them. Be sides, there was another error into which he had been led, Out in which hr must take the Right Hon. Gentleman as particeps crirninis—namely, the amount likely to accrue from the increased duty on spirits. The Right Ho nourable Gentleman calculated that at 450,0001. ; and he ~ 31r. G.) was aware that a large quantity of this would fall in the last quarter. Notwithstanding the anticipations iif the Right Hon. Gentleman, however, the additional duty produced no increase, hut, on the contrary, there was a falling off of 100,0001. in the year; and thirdly, a Bill hail come in from Canada about the Rideau Canal, on which they had not at all calculated. Besides, in the last quitter there was a great staguation of trade and diffi iailty in commerce, which produced a falling off in the revenue. He had stated the grounds of the calculations an which they had proceeded, and the reasons why these grounds had deceived them. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, that at the end of 1830 there was 2,200,000/. sur plus revenue. This was true ; but the arrangements he ,nude were likely to affect the revenue of 1831, and therefore it could not be calculated that because the sur plus of 1830 had been 2,900,000/., the surplus of the last year should have been so great. He would next ad vert to the reduction of taxation, and first be would state the ease in the way most unfavourable to himself. That was to take solely into consideration the reductions which had been made by himself. The amount of taxation taken off last year at his suggestion was 1,500,000/. By addi tional taxation he derived 100,000/., which left a total reduction of 1,400,0001. And there was now a deficiency ~f 700,0001. Therefore, if he had done nothing in the way of reduction, the Itight Hon. Gentleman would still have a surplus of 700,000/. This was putting the case in the way most unfavourable to himself. He would now t ke it the other way, and show tie effect of the Right Hon. Gentleman's reduction of taxation in the last year. The amount of taxation reduced by the Right Hon. Gen tleman was £2,794,000 The loss by the duty on spirits was lOO,OOO The loss by the corn duties 250,000 Making a total of. £3,144,000 \Vhich being deducted from 50,P56,0001.,} £50,05 , ;,000 as thus 3,144,000 Would leave £46,912,000 As revenue; but The expenditure being 47,123,000 46,912,000 And the revenue only £lll,OOO He had first stated the case in a manner unfavourable to himself : he had now stated it in a manner unfavour able to the Right Hon. Gentleman. According to the first, there would be a surplus revenue of 700,0001., and accord ing to the other case, there would be a deficiency of 111,000/. He believed, however, that if he had not re duced the amount of taxation there would have been a surplus; but, certainly, not to the amount of 700,0001. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, he would not go into the Budget of last year, or attack him (Lord A.) for the propositions he had made; and, he had added, that the country bad a great escape in the fact of all these propos.- tions not being adopted. or else the deficiency would have been much greater. Now, in reply to this, he begged leave to remind the House that all the propositions he had made for the increase of taxation had not been adopted— and some that were, from the lateness of the session and other causes, came so recently into operation that they had little or no effect on the revenues of the year. Theref"re be could not admit that the deficiency would have been even so great if all his propositions for increased taxation had been adopt. d. Naw he had stated his whole defence to the House for what had passed last year ; and, he trusted, that the House would believe, that in no statement which he had male he had any intention of deceiving the House. He had now stared the whole case, and would leave it to the House to form an opinion upon his conduct. But it certainly was more important to make a statement now of the effect of the measures taken with respect to the re venues of the present year.—(Hear.) lie was ready to admit his imprudence in bringing forward his statement last year at so early a period as lie did. And certainly now, in making any statements, he was liable to inaccuracy front the early period of the year. They might consider that— The loss on camas would be £400,000 On coals And on reduction of taxation, &c. Making as a total On the other side,there was the drawback on printed cottons The: linen bounties 155,00) . . The wine duties on the stock in hand Taxed beyond what had been laid on last year upon malt And here he might observe, that, whatever might be said, he thought that the Bills respecting malt and beer were exceedingly important, and from the malt duty an in creased revenue would accrue. There were, besides, many duties which would this year come into full operation. The duties on wine might also be expected to increase, as in like manner the importation of cotton. He, of course, proceeded upon the supposition that the expenditure of this year would be the same with last year ; and he thought he might confidently anticipate this, as he knew the estimates for this year would be considerably less than for the last year.—(Hear.) Well, then, for additional duties he might calculate on 375,000/. ; and for taxes coming into full operation, &c. 150,000/. ; which would amount to 1,337,000/. ; and 1,173.0001. being deducted from it, would leave a surplus of 164,000/. In conclusion, he said that although he lamented the reduction in the re venue, he felt perfectly confident that the public might rely that they were prepared to meet the expenditure for the year which was to conic. Mr. ATTWOOD ridiculed the idea of the Noble Lord's saying last year that 350,000/. would not be a sufficient surplus, but that 450,000/. would, when there was an ex penditure of fifty millions ; and half of this went to pay the interest of the debt. He protested, too, against the conduc tnight, to o i f n a i n G g ( ( Iv o e w r nnmeennct ofe practice two as,falsify night another after mass n oth e i T w r h e i a c s h ury tl c ie y ier t l w t e h r e e, m o s f el c v , e i s rs p e r , od n u a ( t , u ed ra . l — ly ( a _C n b x e ic e m r t . manner they pr esume d cv out the accounts in the to o ) u la T makehbhe most agreeable to their superiors ; but the Noble Lori might depend upon it that a Chancellor of the Exchequer would be deceived himself, and deceive others, if he did 1 -uot rx:twine and closely sift the accounts laid before Hear.) The public interest demanded that either the Noble Lord should abandon his office, or conduct it upon different principles. Either the country was unable to support its burthens, or the Government were unable to perform their duty. It was impossible to impose new taxes ; and to talk of a new loan, after fifteen years of peace, was perfectly absurd. He was afraid that the Noble Lord intended to proceed with some of those fine schemes of finance which he had already proposed, and which were altogether founded on the fancies of the Hon. Ba ronet (Sir H. Parnell) behind him. The great difference he observed between the two parties in the House always had been, that the present Government, when out of office, had maintained that the Tory expenditure was most unnecessary and profligate ; but now this economic party had been in power for a year, and the country had an op portunity of observing to wh.t extent they had been able permanently to reduce the expenditure. The expense of the army in the last year under a Tory Ministry, assisted by a boronglimougering Parliament, was 6,999,000/. ; at present it was 7,200,000/. ; which made an increa-e of upwards of 200,0001. He did not blame Government for this ; he merely cited it to show that their actions had been contrary to the assertions of their whole life. Again, look to the navy, in which they were told by the Noble Lord the system of patronage was to be for ever at an end. Under the old profligate Tory Administration last year, the expenditure had been 3,209,000/. ; under the new Administration, it was 5,680,000/., leaving a sur plus of 480,000/. He came now to the miseellineous estimates. What was the result of these ? Did they prove a diminution of expenditure? On the contrary, a very slight examination of them would show that their amount had been less under the former than under the present Ministry. In 1830, under a Tory Ministry, their amount had been 1,950,0001., while in 1831, under a Government, the supposed personification of all that was prudent and economical, they amounted to 2,850,0001. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord might show particular reasons for this increase of expenditure, he would not say that the Noble Lotd could not; but there was the fact of the increase in the first year of a Government that came in under the most distinct pledges of economy-. In fact, he had no hesitation in asserting that, in the course of the last year, there had been a great addition to almost every one of the burdens of the State. It would, perhaps, be stated, in answer to this, that such was the structure of the present House of Commons, that it opposed an in vincible obstacle to real economy. He asked whether the Ministry had tried that?—(Hear, from the Oppesition.) He was convinced that, if the same system which had hitherto been pursued was adopted in a reformed Parlia ment, there could be no further reductions with the safety and honour of the public. A reformed Parliiment, if it reduced to a large extent, the burdens of the people, must Joso at the expellee of the public creditor.---(Hear, hear.) Could they reduce the army or the navy upon any great scale? and if they could not do so with safety, would they, to diminish the amount of taxes, seize upon the dividends of the public creditor ?—(Hear, hear.) It was a vain de lusion to suppose that a reformed, or an unreformed Par liament, could discover resources of the country, by which its necessities could he provided for in a very mat, rial de gree.—(Hear, hear.) They praised themselves for being an Administration that was favourable to peace. Why, one year of Whig Administration bad scarcely elapsed be fore this country was on the brink of a war—on the verge of a bloody and desolating war—(Hear, hear)—and he would venture to assert, that unless their foreign policy was founded on better calculations than their home policy, there must be war.----(Hear, hear.) Indeed he felt no he sitation in saying, that the present Ministry as little de served the confidence of the Crown, and the support of the Parliament, as any set of Ministers with whom it had ever been his lot to:be acquainted.—(Hear.) The British navy had been sent to threaten Holland. Did not that act almost necessarily tend to produce war, notwithstand ing all the protocols and all the paper that had been wasted under the pretence of preserving peace? And if war had begun on that account, it would not hare ended in a few weeks, as same might, perhaps, imagine. Those who did imagine that because France appeared to be with us, the war would have ended almost as soon as it began, bad little knowledge of the perseverance of the House of Nassau, which never had been known to give up any ob. jest for which is contested.—(Hear, hear.) The liberty not only of Holland, but of England, was owing to the immoveable fit rnness of the Princes of that house—(Hear, hear,)—and when Holland was fighting for her just rights, did any one suppose that the rest of Europe would have stood tamely by to see her crushed? It they did, they were mistaken. Mr. P. THOMPSON agreed with the Hon. Gentleman only in the concluding part of the speech he had just de livered, namely, that the greater part of that speech was ; not addressed to the question of finance before the House, but to the foreign politics of the Government and to Reform, wide which the question had little, propsrly speaking, to do.—(Hear, hear.) He should not follow that Hon. Member in his observations made on the subject of finance and of Reform, but with respect to those upon finance he must say, that the Hon. Gentleman on this occasion seemed to have forgotten his favourite theory of not relying upon figures—(Hear, hear, and a laugh)—end to have depended on them mainly for his statements. Now, it could not be supposed, that he (Mr. P. Thomson) was at all displeased with this change in the lion. Gentleman's mode of argument—on the contrary, he had always re commended the Hon. Gentleman to have recourse to the aid of figures upon matters of finance, because such matters were usually best discussed by their aid, but then he wished also, that the figures stated should be correct, or should be correctly quoted. 17nless they were so, he must dispute the statement ; and for that reason he disputed the statements of the Hun. Gentleman. The Hou. Gentleman had objected to the increase in the expenditure of the army—if that ex penditure was not justified, why had not the lion. Member been in his place to oppose the estimates when they were moved ?—(Mr. ATTWOOD said something across the table, the purport of which did not exactly reach us.) The Hon. Gentleman said that the miscellaneous estimates had been increased, but he had not gone into them to show that his assertion was well founded. He (Mi. P. Thomson) could not help observing that in making this assertion the lion. Member had never once alluded to the important circum stance that nearly half a million of money had been car ried from the head of the civil list to be placed under the head of miscellaneous expenditure.—(Hear, hear.) Thee the lion. Gentleman accused the Noble Lord of having forgotten the candle duty in his statement. Why, in the statement alluded to, his Noble Friend had debited himself with 400,000/. on account of the candle duty which had been taken off.—(Bear, hear.) The estimates, there fore, instead of justifying the assertions of the Hon. Gen - tleman, showed that a large saving had been effected, and that a surplus would notwithstanding be left.---( Hear.) But when the Hon. Gentleman accused them of want of economy, how did lie settle the account with the Right lion. Gentleman below him ? If economy had not been sufficiently practised, whose fault was it ?—(Hear, hear.) lie would not generally go over the state of the country when the late Administration quitted office, nor would he spank of the increase of the military force having been rendered necessary by the conduct of their prede eessors—(Loud cheers)—ner would he say what the Government had been obliged to do in consequence of the extravagance and worthlessness manifest in the expendi ture of the Government that had preceded thern.—(Hear.) He would not ask what had been the expenditure they found the Government engaged in with respect to the I building of palaces—(Cheers)—he would nut advert to the extravagance to which the former Government had become a party in the case of the Rideau Canal—(Cheers) —but he had a right to say, that a large proportion, if not the whole deficiency of which so much had been said, would not have existed but for claims of the description to which he had referred. The Right Hon. Gentleman op posite had set the Hon. Gentleman the example of making these charges against the present Government. The Right Hon. Gentleman had seated with an air of absolute horror, that for the first time in the history of this country—( Mr. Goulburn dissented)—he would not misrepresent the Right Hon. Gentleman; perhaps it was the first time for years past I.e had observed a deficiency in the public revenue— that for the first time for years past he had seen the ex penditure exceeding the revenue. The House should soon see whether that assertion was correct. When the Right lion. Gentleman spoke as he had done of the Noble Lord at the head of the Government—of that Noble Lord's de sire to provide his relation.; with places—when lie spoke in that manner, did he forgy, that when he was a member of the last Administration, he endeavoured, but just before that Administration quitted office, to quarter on the pension list of this country the sons of two Cabinet Ministers ? To be sure the attempt was defeated ; but the defeat was owing to the House of Commons, not to the foihearance of the Right Hon. Gentleman. He should now refer to the other charge of the Right Hon. Gentleman as t o t h e d e fi c i ency When of the public revenue. the Right Hon. Gentleman saoke in terms of such horror of the deficiency, he must have known that deficiencies of a greater extent had not been unknown in the later times of this country.—(H ear . ) lie did not know whether the cheers of the Right lion. Gentleman indicated his assent or dissent, hut the proof of the fact was easy. He (Mr. P. Thomson) could take any year irom 1E323. He would not go farther hack, but would begin from that year, because it was to be recollected, that the Parliament had then pledged itself, by a aistioct resolution, that there should be an efficient sinking-fund of ia,000,000/., which might be considered as a portion of the public expenditure.—(Hear, bear, frost Mr. Gout burn.) He should nut take it as a portion of the public expenditure, and yet there would be found to be a deficiency, The deficiency in the account of 1823, including the ad vance for naval purposes, was 2,991,000/. In 1824, the deficiency was 1,007,0001. In 1825, it was 2,125,0001. In 1826, 6,717,000/. In 1827, it was 6,603,000/. In 1828, it had fallen to 959,0001. In 1829, it had fallen to 807,000/. ; and in 1830, he would do the Right lion. Gentleman the justice to say, that there was a balance of 978,0001. the other way. The statement he had just read proved, however, that deficiencies in the public revenue, as compared with the public expenditure, were not quite so new as the Right Hon. Gentleman had seetned to imagine. But if that statement did not satisfy the Right Hon. Gentleman, he would quote the words of the Right Hon. Member for Har wich, in his evidence before the Finance Committee. That Right Hon. Member had said, " The sum payable far life annuities should be added to the 49,750,0001., before the balance was struck, and that would give a total of 50,368,000/., giving a deficiency of 127,0001. upon the whole expenditure." He (Mr. Thomson) deplored the deficiency in the revenue of this year ; but certainly such a deficiency was not unheard of in the history of this country; and the difference between the present and the former state of things was, there was now no concealment. —(Cheers from the Ministerial benches, answered from the Opposition.) The accounts were now stated plainly and fairly—(Renewed cheering)—they were plainly and fairly put before the public; and the desire of the present Government was, that the people should be acquainted with the red state of the public finances. The present Ministers did not borrow money, that they might use it in appearing to pay off a part of the national debt— ( Cbeers)—they did not take money, borrowed from the Bank, and secured at a heavy interest, upon what were called long annuities, and then put it down in their ac counts us part of the income received, and applicable to the discharge of debts and expenses—(Hear, bear, hear) —they did not attempt any mystification ; they desired that every thing should be plain and intelligible.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had talked of the mis calculations of his Noble Friend. Let him ask the Right Hon. Gentleman whether miscalculation had not sometimes happened to the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) In the middle of 1830, did not the Right Hon. Gentle man come down to that House, and say he expected 400,0001. from an increase of the consumption of spirits? —(llear, hear, hear.) Had not the Right Honourable Gentleman made some miscalculation on that point.— (Hear, hear.) There had been a deficiency of no less than 100,000/. instead of there being a gain of 400,000/. ( Hear, hear.) But if there was a deficiency now, where, he would ask, was that deficiency ? Did it consist of mo ney taken from the pockets of the people, and lavished upon undue expenditure or unworthy enterprise ? or did it not remain in the pockets of the people, to be drawn thence if the necessities of the State should require it ? (Cheers from the Opposition.) He understood that cheer, and perhaps it would have been more gratifying to the Right Hon. Gentleman had there been a surplus, even though that surplus had been wrung from the people by a larger and heavier taxation.—(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches.)—He was happy to say that it remained is the pockets of the people, there to fructify by use, and to sti mulate their industry.—(Hear, bear.) He asked those who smiled at that statement, where would have been the benefit to have extracted that money from the pockets of the people with the mere view of making a surplus in stead of allowing a deficiency ? Perhaps it might be said that public credit had suffered by the deficiency. He was aware of that argument, and he was aware that, generally speaking, it was the duty of the Government to take care that there should be in the Treasury a sufficient sum to meet the public charges. But in this instance he was happy to e able to assert, moat positively, that public credit had not suffered in the least degree. There had been no in dication in the public funds that, by this deficiency of 600,000/., public credit had suffered. But supposing the Noble Lord had had the prescience which the Right lion. Gentleman assumed to possess, would he have been justified in refusing to the people the promised ben, fit of the reduction of the coal duties and of the duties on cotton? —(Hear, hear.) Then the Right Hon. Gentleman had talked of the frequent changes made by the present Govern ment in the taxes they had determined to retain or to re• move, and be accused them of blunders. What ! had the Right Hon. Gentleman made no blunders?—(Hear, and laughter.) Had the Right lion. Gentleman forgotten 1830—had he not then changed the duties on spirits no less than three times ?—(Hear, hear.) Had he not, in like manner, changed the duties on rum and on sugar?— (Hear, hear.) Had he forgotten that Sugar Bill which was universally, and not inaptly, designated by the appel lation of " the unintelligible Sugar Bill ?"—(Cheers.) He did not say these things in the way of blame to the Right Hon. Gentleman, any more than what the Right Hon. Gentleman had said had been uttered in blame of the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The Right Honourable Gentleman had talked of con sistency. What was the conduct of the late Oppo sition and of the present Opposition upon this ques tion of inconsistency? It had been the duty of the pre sent Ministry to defend, in office, the system of free trade, which they bad advocated before they easne into office, and they had done so consistently.—( Hear, hear.) When the late Ministers had taken the initiative in the intro duction of measures of free trade, the late Opposition had supported them in it ; but what did he find now—did they receive support front the present Opposition in pur suing those very measures which the present Opposition, when in office, hail comtnenc-d ? Were there no party motives which influenced their conduct?—(Cheers.) Was there no going away—(Cheers)—when consistency required that they should stay and support their formerly declared opinions ?—(Hear, hear, hear.) He alluded to the questions that had lately been brought before them. He did not allude. to the timber question, for they had been told that it was po sible to ride off the difficulty with respect to that question, by the somewhat nice difference between a financial and it commercial measure.—(Hear, hear.) But that was not the case with the glove trade, nor with the silk trade. On those questions the saute principles, and, if not, the same measures, at least mea sures founded on the same principles as those which had before been adopted by the late Ministry, came into dis cussion, and, strange to say, the authors of those mea sures —those who had been too happy when his Right lion. Friend the late Mr. linskisson brought the ques tions before the House, to unite with, to follow in his train—with hint "'l'o share the triumph, and partake the gale," immediately that the present Ministers endeavoured to follow up his plans and support his system, held back and tried to deprive them of the honour and triumph which they had justly earned a right to share.—(Cheers.) He did not blame the Right Hen. Gentleman fur this. Na doubt the Right lion. Gentleman had rood and weighty reasons fur doing so, and likewise for opposing him, when it fell to his duty to introduce the Sugar Bill. There was no change in the principle of the Ml.—(Heer, hear, from the Opposition.) He repeated it, there was no change in the principle of the Bill, and he challenged any one to show that there was any change whatever in it. But if it was insisted that there was any change in one Bill, or one measure (which he denied), there could not be a change in all, yet the conduct of the Opposition had been the same with respect to the Sugar Bill—to the timber. question—to the duty on gloves—and yet, on all these he had met with exactly the same results, arid the same admirable proofs of consistency in the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite.—(Cheers ) Of course he should not impute to them unworthy motives litr such conduct ; but he should do all that he was permitted to do ; he should express his doubts of the consistency of their opinions and of their authority on such subjects.—( Hear, hear.) A man might change his opiniun fro'n further examination of a great subject; but i 1 he changed it under particular circumstanc e s, he ceased to be an authority on such subjects. He had said so much on this subject, in reply to the observations that hail been made on tine state• merit of his Noble Friend ; that statement would, he was sure, be found quite satisfactory to the country. They would du justice to the purity of his intentions, and to the manliness and candour of his statements. his predictions would be received in the spirit in which they had been made, and the Noble Lord would be able to make up the present deficiency, and yet to preserve himself from the necessity of imposing fresh burdens on the people. Mr. G. DAWSON—I must say, Sir, that I have seldom beard a speech more full of inconsistencies—that more di verged from the subject under consideration, or that was more 101 l of wandering statements than that which the Bight Hon. Gentleman has just delivered.—( Hear.) When I heard the eloquent speech of my Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Goulburn), and heard the answer attempted to be given to itfo for the the t ieN N t, aide Lordor, o L r o d rd h , coouwi(elv note r g r b e u a t t p ne i t a y s respect felt the tich the Noble Lord cut.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) The Right Hon. Gentleman told the Hon Members, that if those cries of " hear, hear," were re peated, he should mention the names of certain Members to t h e House, and continued. The Noble Lord felt that he could not answer the eloquent speech (a more elo quent speech I hardly ever heard), a n d, th ere fore, he did not make the attempt. He av o id e d t h e attac k , to w hi c h he felt he could give no answer, and contented himself with making an appeal to the Howe on his motives and on the honesty of his intentions. The Noble Lord frequently makes appeals of thin sort, sod they seldom fail of pro ducieg a eoneiderebte effect. But these appeal.: from the common sense of the House to his honesty must at least fail him : and be will find that it is so, when perhaps be least expects it. I do not doubt his honesty, but I doubt his capacity for business ; and I think that the proof of that incapacity has been much increased by the Noble Lord's statement of this evening. The Right Hon. Gen tleman, however, has taken a different course ; for, feeling the impossibility of defending the speech of the Noble Lord by argument, he has carried the war into the ene my's camp, and accused us who sit on this side of the House of inconsistency ; but in taking this course, it seems to me that he quite foigot that many of those who now have seats in the Cabinet were actually Members of the then Cabinet which had the conducting of these very measures. When, therefore, the Right Hon. Gentleman accuses us of waste with respect to the expenditure of Buckingham Palace, his censure does not fall on my Right Hon. Friend, hut on Lord Goderich, who was at that time Ch incellor of the Exchequer—(Cheers)—and who is now a Member of the Cabinet to which the Right Hon. Gen tleman himself belongs. But I can, in a great measure, understand the uneasiness which the Right Hon. Gentle man has shown. I can understand the sympathy which tie has expressed for the distress of the Noble Lord. I can imagine why be feels hurt by the ridicule thrown by my Right lion. Friend on the first and second Budgets of the Noble Lord ; and God knows, that however strong those expressions may be, they fall far short of the real merits of the subject.—(A laugh.) I say that if the Right Hon. Gentleman has felt annoyed by these ex pressions, I can account for it ; for if report speaks true, he himself was the real parent—the too lately pro claimed father of those unfortunate Budgets. It is, there fore no matter of surprise to me that the Right lion. Gentleman should have shown such a feeling on the sub ject. The Right Hon. Gentleman, in expressing that feeling, took occasion to enter upon a tirade against my Right Hon. Friend, and accused him of having dealt in great looseness of figures. Now I think that 1 shall be able to show that this attack on my Right Hon. Friend is altogether unfounded. The broad statement on which my Right Hon. Friend went was, that the estinutes of 1831 were greater in amount than the estimates of 1830. In proof of this statement he went through those estimates item by item. He showed that the navy estimates were greater, and the military estimates were greater; the ord nance, I believe, were smaller. But the grand effect of the Right Hon. Gentleman's indignation rested on the miscellaneous estimates ; and because may Right Hon. Friend did not at the moment happen to recollect the par ticular circumstances connected with those estimates, the j Right Hon. Gentleman indulged in all the powers of ridi rule that he was able to muster on the occasion. The Right lion. Gentleman, however, must have known that in thus directing his argument, he was resorting to a mere subter fuge for the purpose of directing the attention of the House from the real fact, that the estimates of the present Whig Government were in fact larger than those of the previous Government in MO. I believe that the Right Hon. Gentleman cannot deny that this is the case by something between 300,0001. and 400,0001. The Right lion. Gentleman then went on to load the Members on this side of the. House with abuse fur the manner in which they hail conducted their patronage when they were in office ; and he taunted them with having, as the last act of their Government, proposed the giving retiring pensions to two sons of Cabinet Ministers. But does the Right Hon. Gentleman forget the attempt that has been made within the last year to palm a much grosser attempt of patron age on the public under the pretence of saving and reforma tion? It was only the other day that a Bill was intro duced to this House (and which Bill is now actually on time table of the House), which purposes to give a salary of 2,0001. a year t o M r . Ab erc r om bie, as a superannuation allowance for having been Judge in one of the Courts of Scotland. And for what was this 2,000/. a year to be given ? For having perforated eighteen months of duty. —(Hear, hear.) After this job was stopped last year by the prorogation of Parliament—after it had been shown that Mr. Abercrombie might he more judiciously provided for by making him Chief Commissioner in the Bankruptcy Court of England, care has actually been taken to fill up that very office, so that now, on the renewal of the Bill, the propesimion suggested last year can no longer be fol lowed up by this House, which I have no doubt would have been the case h id the office remained open. After this, I ask whether the superannuation allowances to which the Right Hon. Gentleman alluded to are to be compared to this job, which has been printed under tke sanction of the present Government? Surely they sink into insig. nificanee when put in comparison with such a job as that which I have just describer. Let me also ask in this place, whether the Bankruptcy Court itself is so deserving of the wonderful praise that some would bestow on it? Is there nothing like partiality shown in that Court? However, I sisal not on this occasion say more upon this subject, as not many weeks can elapse before the House will have an oppor tunity of forming its judgruent upon it. Neither will Igo through all the topics that have been urged by the Right Hon. Gentleman, believing that I have seiml enough to show, that, however deserving of reprehension the late Go vernment may have been, they have been most religiously followed by the present Government. There is one point, however, in the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman, on which I must enlarge somewhat more fully. I allude to the statement that he has made with respect to surplus. The Right Hon. Gentleman, in a most sweeping manner, declared that there had been no surplus since 1823 ; and made this statement on the strength of some figures that he brought down with him. But I beg to observe, that none of these figures are before the House; they proceed from a more private calculation of the Right Hon. Gentleman : ails can, therefore only be taken quantum valeant. But, if a regular return on this subject was called for, I am sure that the calculation of the Right Hon. Gentleman would prove to be totally unfounded. But as the case stands already, there is a paper on the table of the House, signed " Thomas Spring Rice," on the 15th December, 1831, and from that very document it appears that the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement is altogether incorrect. Now, of course, I do not undertake to answer for the accuracy of the Honourable Member for Limerick's statement—(A laugh)—hut as we are arguing on the figures of the Right Honourable Gentleman, I have, at all events, a right to set the one statement against the other. I will state from that paper the whole of the income and the whole of the expenditure of tLe country, from 1827 to 1830. In 1827 the income was 55,285,626/, and the expenditure 55,734,000/. So far, then, the Right Hun. Gentleman is right. There is a deficiency in that year. But, then, please to observe, the Government was in the bands of the late Mr. Canning and of the Noble Lord (Paltnerston) opposite; and, therefore, what ever deficiency there may Lave been that year, the Right Hon. Gentleman must settle the matter with the Noble Foreign Secretary who sits next him.—(Hear, hear.) But I very well remember, at that time Mr. Canning fully explained the deficiency to the [louse, and, unlike the Noble Lord, came down beforehand, and told the House there would be a deficiency. It is, however, to 1828, 1821', and 1830, that I shall more particularly allude, because those were the years my Right Hon. Friend was Chancellor of the Exchequer, and I had the honour of holding an office under him, for which reason I feel a pe culiar interest in those years, and really believe I shall be able to shew that, so far from any deficiency, there was a considerabl-.. surplus. In 1828 the income was 57,485,00 W. .irl the expenditure 54,836,000/., making a surplus of 2 648,000/. In 1829, the income was 55,821,0001., and the expenditure 54,316,000/., making a surplus of 1,475,000/. In 1830, the income was 54,840,0001., and the expenditure b 3,011,000/., giving a surplus of 1,828,0001. After having made these statements, I think I may very well place this signed paper by the aide of the Right Hon. Gentleman's private calculations, and leave the two to speak for themselves. As the Right Hon. Gentle man has told the House what has been done since the present Government came into office, I will tell him what was once done before that event took place. Between 1828 and 1830 inclusive, a reduction was effected in the I estimates of 2,096,000/. ; at the same time a reduction of j the interest of the debt was &so effected-7°5,000/. on the funded debt, 128,0001. on the unfunded ; in addition to this there was a reduction of taxes to the amount of 3,500,000/., including the taxes on beer, leather, snd other smaller burthens ; and, notwithstanding these reduce tions in the estimates, the national debt, and the taxes, my Right Hon. Friend was lucky enough and skilful enough to leave, according to time paper which I have just quoted, a surplus of 1,800,000/. And now, what is the condition of the year 1831 ? The estimates have been in creased by three or four millions. Of the taxes, some certainly have been reduced, but then others have been increased ; and so ueskilfully have the two been blended together, that it is impossible to state whether they are productive or unproductive. As to the surplus, I think that the statement of the Noble Lord may teach th- House and the country that no such thing is his-1y to result from his way of managing matters---(Hear, hear, h ear )._ and, in fact, on the face of that very statement, it appears that there is no reduction of the debt—that there is no surplus revenue ; but that, on the contrary, there is a gross deficiency of 700,000/. And this, in a very few words, is the contrast between the fihancial operations of the two Governments.—(Cheers.) But the real question, after all, that is now before the House is not the couip irative merits of the two Administrations. The question that we now have to consider is, what is the reason of the defalcation in the revenue, and the tend dis !appointment that has taken pl a ce in all th e cal cu l at i ons nf, I the Noble Lord ? My Right Hon. Friend has referred to the speech of the Noble Earl at the head of his Majesty's Government ; and, in like manner, I could read to the House the speech of the Noble Lord on a similar occasion, and which contains language quite as strong as that of the • Noble Earl. The speech of the Noble Lord, which was made after three quarters of the year were over, spoke with the greatest confi lence of the calculations he was putting forth. And yet, with all this strong language, all the predictions of the Noble Lord were falsified—all his • roost sanguine anticipations were disappointed : for which reason I ask threw Hon. Gentlemen who are 91 fond of cheering all that falls from that side of the House, whe ther we must not pronounce that the Noble Lord's confi dence was without caution—whether his boldness was not without judgment—whether his assurances were not with out reasonable foundation ? To show how ignorant the Noble Lord is of the details of office, it is only necessary to refer to his speech. It is only necessary to recur to that to show be was wrong in his calculations of both income and expenditure. According to the statement which he put forth on the 3d of October, he set the amount of Customs at 16,750,000/, which, in the end, only produced 16,568,0001., being a deficiency of 233,700/. The Ex cise was stated at 16,800.000/. and its produce only 16,303,000/. being a deficiency of 496,000/. In the Stamps, for a wonder, the N , ,ble Lord was right, he hav ing set the amount at 6,850,000/., and the produce being 6,917,000/., giving an overplus of 97,830/. in favour of the Noble Lord. In the Post-office he was also right, the amount being stated at 1,500,000/., and producing 1,530,000/., leaving 30,000/. overplus. But in the Taxes, again, he was wrong, for he placed the amount at 5,000,000/., while the produce was only 4,864,000/., giving a balance of 135,0001. against the Noble Lord. The Miscellaneous were equally incorrect, for they were placed at 350,000/, and produced only 262,000/., giving a result of 87,000/. contra. The tots' result of all which was, that while the Noble Lord anticipated a revenue of 47,250,0001., the actual produce only amounted to 46,434,0001.—( Hear, hear)—from which it appeared, that although the Noble Lord had the advantage of making his calculations as late as October, the balance was 825,0001. less than he had anticipated.—(Hear, bear.) Nor had the Noble Lord any right to allege the variation of contingen cies as an excuse; for, having had the advantage of con sulting all the Officers of the Treasury on the subject, the result proved either gross incapacity or gross neglect in the formation of the calculations. But having thus shown how the Noble Lord erred in his anticipation of the revenue, I now come to point out the blunders in his calculation of the expenditure. The Noble Lord set the amount of the expenditure at 46,756,000/, but it afterwards turned out that the actual expenditure was 47,123,000/. ; so that here again there a mistake of 367,000/. ; and by putting the two errors to g ether—that in the revenue and t h at i n th e expen diture — there was no less a mistake than 1,200,0001. in the calculations of the Noble Lord for that year. Again, I say, the Noble Lord must not shift the blame of this from his own shoulders to those of the Excise and Customs Offices. Lord ALTHORP—I do not blame them. Mr. G. DAWSON—The Noble Lord does not blame others : and I say that I think the blame rests with him ; and I further say, that these are the real points that call for answer, and to which the Right Hon. Gentleman has attempted to give no answer whatever. It is no answer for us to sit and hear the Right Hon. Gentleman declaim against my Right Hon. Friend on the subject of the Sugar Duties. The result of the endeavours of my Right Hoe. Friend has been to put the finances of the country in a flourishing condition ; but the result of the endeavours of the Nohle Lord has been to put them in a most deplorable state, to which maybe added his futile attempt to mystify them at the same time.—(Cries of " No, no.") I say that there has been an attempt at mystification, because he has endeavoured to call away the attention of the House from the deficiency of 750,000/. this year, by talking of his anticipation of a surplus revenue for the next year. But thus early, I beg to enter my caveat against the calcula tions of the Noble Lord. The gist of those calculations seems to be, that he has an expectancy of 1,300,000/. as a set-off against the present losses; but unless the House can make up its mind to have a very good opi nion of the Noble Lord's financial skill, I think that it will be much safer for it to come at once to the conclu sion, that the expectancy thus set forth is n orth nothing at all. Another point to which there has been no answer given, is the charge, that this subject had never been properly brought before the House of Commons until it was forced forward by the gentlemen who sit on this side of the House. But it is observable, that whenever the Government wishes to get rid of any unpleasant responsi bility (in illustration of which, I may particularly cite the case of the Committee on the Civil List), they always cloak Vaeir dread of the danger under the pretence of coming into the Howe for advice.--(Cheers.) But, in my opinion, the duty of a Government is to come down to this House with their own plans. So likewise in the case of the salaries of the Civil Officers, and in that of the tithes of Ireland, the same unwillingness of responsibility has been evinced ; and the same call for assistance has been made upon this House. But while this line of conduct has been pursued in these instances, they have been ready enough in others to act for themselves : witness the little reluctance they displayed in saddling on the people of this country the payment of five millions and a half when it was to serve as a bribe to a foreign Prince to accede to the objects they had in view. —(Cheers.) The House has now been sitting for three weeks, and not one word bad it previous to this evening beard respecting the state of the finances of the country; and it is only in consequence of their having beers forced by my Right Hon. Friend to initiate the subject, that we now have it before the House; from which I think it appears that these Whig Ministers, who make a pretence of applying to Parliament on every subject, are in fact the most unconstitutional Ministers that ever held the reins of Government in this country.—_ (Laughter, and hear, hear.) Mr. SPRING RICE thought that his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. G. Dawson) had uttered some marvellous incomistencie.s, not only in the same speech, but almost in the same breath ; having charged the Government, at almost one and the same instant, with coming to Parlia ment for its advice on every topic, and likewise with bar ing been too unwilling to come to Parliament for its ad vice —(Cheers)—but he (Mr. Rice) really thought that if a fur comparison were made, it would be found that, with respect to Parliamentary Committees, the late Go vernment was much more prone to shrink from responsi bility than the present. It was true that his Right lion. Friend had alluded to the salaries of the officers of the Crown. But was not that a case that stood by itself ? And was not that a case in which they were justified in coming to the House of Commons, and saying, " In every other case we are willing to decide for ourselves, but in this, as it has particular reference to our own matters, we think we had better throw the decision of it on the representatives of the people, seeing that it is an inquiry which has long been called for, and that we are ready to pledge ourselves to carry the recommendation of the Committee into effect." This was what lie thought they were fully justified in doing: and they had shown their sincerity by carrying every recommendation of the Com mittee into effect, even before its report was printed, and laid before the House.—(Cheers.) Another charge which his Right Hon Friend had brought against the Government was, that they had submitted the ques tion of the Civil List to a Committee up stairs.-- But would not his Right Honourable Friend have fowl one of the first to have taunted them if they had not pursued that course ? and was not that the very point on which the late Government went out of office ; and had not the present Administration come into office, pledged in a manner to that very step?—(Cheers.) And yet, with this very fact staring him in the face, the Right lion. Gentleman thought proper to bring a charge against the Government for doing the very thing that, had it been undon., would have made the gravamen of his attack? The Right Hon. Gentleman then went on to charge my Right Hon. Friend near me (Mr. P. Thomson) with having been desultory in his observations ; but, lie would ask, were not those observations in reply to what had pre viou.ly fallen from the Hon. Member for Boroughbridge? Were act all those remarks which had been complained of, made in following up the observations of that Hon. Gen tleman ? It was not my Right lion. Friend who brought forward the question of foreign policy. Quite the con trary. But the Right Hon. Gentleman is too experienced a debater not to know that that subject, having been intro duced by the lion. Member for Boroughbridge, my Right lion. Friend was driven to reply to him. In short, did his Right lion. Friend introduce any of those topics that had been called desultory ?—No, he did not. They were introduced by Members on the other side of the House; and he had been necessarily led to the observations that he had made in reply. He (Mr. Rice) was quite willing to admit that many of those observations might have been par .d. —(Heer.) For his own part, he could not se why foreign policy, or the manifold protocols of Holland and Belgium had been brought forward ; though, by the way, he might be allowed to remark that they were the only issue of paper to which he had ever heard the Hon. Mem ber for Boroughbridge object.—(Hear, and a laugh.) His Right Hun. Friend (Mr. Dawson) had found fault with the estimates of last year, and had accused the Go vernment of departing from its principles therein. Butt :n deciding that question, tilt) , were bound to look at the tate of the country. With foga d t , that iutvuai mate, 1