The Sun. — London, England, 1822-06-12 00:00:00

•:.ttitily :prophetic of • - the distress in which the country wan 'Po* p lunged. He contended that the effect -of the :Aeration could not be estimated by a mere reference to - ponnda, shillings, and pence. The relative depreciation in AN- value of money could only be estimated by the Tice of commodities. In order, therefore, to shew the extent of *predation, he had converted the amount of the taxes into commodity ; and belied taken the three. commodi ti es of corn, gald, and labour. In IEI3, the taxes amo - auted to 74;674,7981., and wheat was worth nu per quarter; so that 11,732,296 quartera would be sufficient to pay the taxes. In 1821 the taxes being fie` millions, and the value of a quarter of wheat 555. 4d. .it weed then recuire 21,863,724 quarters, or nearly one half . snore than in the. year 1813, to pay the taxes of the country, tbcy Acing so much lower than at that period. But suppeaing . the price of wheat to be 455. this year, it would take 27 mil lions of quarters to pay the taxes, a quantity that would have • teen enough to pay double their amount at the prices of 1813. In the value of geld the difference did not appear so. great. In 1813 the price of gold was 110 s. per ounce, and 13,577,236 'trances would have been sufficient to pay the taxes, amount ing to above 74 millions. At the present time the price of gold was 775. 7d.; so that 15,600,000 ounces would be necessary to discharge the taxes, being 60 millions. In 1813, the price of labour-wag 16s. per week ; and the labour of five millions , of persons for 18 weeks and 4 days would have paid the taxes of the year, being 74 millions and upwards. The average price of labour Ives now 9s. per week ; and it would.take the labour cf the same number of persons for 26 weeks and six, days to pan the taxes of 60 millions ; and supposing the price of labour to have fallen to Bs. it would require 30 weeks, being almost double the quantityrequired in 1813. The Hon. Member then proceeded to chew the operation of the measure upon the other markets of Europe. It appeared by the prices current of for deax, Amsterdam, and London, that tne various articles of produce in those markets had fallen in the proportions of 15 per centum at Bordeaux ' • at Amsterdam prices had fallen 34 per cent ; and at London 44 per cent. between the years 1814 and-1921. He then read from some documents a calculation .of the fall in the prices of various articles of produce, which re a peared to be generally from 30 to 40 and 50 per centum.— it was impossible to ascribe" this to any other cause than to the measure which the House had adopted. Its per gskisua consequentes, he felt convinced, were felt as se verely by the commercial and manufacturing world as they were by the agricultural interests. Commercial men were tarrying on commerce - Without profit, and the manufacturer was manufacturing without profit. 'ne Hon. Member then went into an intricate calculation to shew that the fundholder -steed in the situation now of receiving forty-nine quarters of corn for his 1001. stock, instead of 25A quarters in the year 1793. He untended, that the public faith would be in no way :injured by adhering to the standard, from which they had so recently, departed. In regard to the Poor Rates, it. was said,. Chat they had decreased _since 1813.—(Hear:} He said ;they Gad increased.—(Hear.)—lf calculated. by the value•of Cones rnodity, as they ought to be, it would be found that they had increased nearly double since that Petioda-4 Heat; hear !a — Could any Gentleman then think of inflicting such a fallacy upon the farmers in the country, - as to, tell thern :that their poor rates were diminished; when, in faet,h the were pays ang nearly double the quantity of the -stack - of their: baths.? tie contended that the' number of criminals, which' had - so increased within the last few years, was to 'be attributed to the . progress of a system which threw so large a portion 'of, the poor out of employment. This was the 'real cause of the, distress in Ireland a t. the present moment.—(Hear, heae!)--dfle should conclude with the sincere and humble wish that the subject had fallen into hands better able to execute the ttiskoL- But such was his opinion of the calamities anchelistreA• Ofhthe .country ' • such was his dread of the future ; such was Ina Opi s .: tion of the cause ofall that calamity and distresS, that nothing could deter bind from doing that•which he conceived to, he. his. duty, in bringing the subject under the consideration of the • House. In doing this, he had dohe no less than his duty ; and he intreated the House to remember that the people of this • country always applied their sober and good sense to the inveSa ligation of questions like the present, and he belieYed that they were now beginning to discover the full consequences of the. measure, which they could not see. at the time it was adopted. St ould any Gentleman say—would the Noble Marquis oppo site say—that he did not begin to look with distrust and ap nrehension' to the future as to what might ensue from the effects of the measure. - The - fact Vas, that any one look lag at the Report of the Committee, would see that they did not "look at the probable results 'of returning to an ancient standard of value, after departing from it for such a period el time. All they considered was; the capability of the Bank to meet the demand for cash. Those results were indeed pointed. out to them in a document presented by the ."ark Directors, but with no effect. —(H'ear, hear !)—The House must not now be deterred from pursuing any course by alarm, or by a reluctance-to retrace their former steps. They must look to some measures which would restore prosperity to • the various interests in the country ; and that could be only ac eamplished by giving to the produce of industry the same value I:,money which it possessed "previous to the adoption of this .measure: He moved; " That a Committee be appointed to con eider the effect produced by the Act of the 59th of Geo. 3, chap. 14. upon the Agriculture, Manufactures and Commerce of toe United Kingdom, and upon the general condition of the dal:ant classes therein." Mr. HUSKISSON said the question raised by the motion of the Hon. Gentleman was admittedly one of the greatest. im nor:tench. It was one which affected the'standard of value, ".tile ,security of all engagements with the' Public, and that don :science so necessary to be maintained in all dealings between. man and man. Yet in his (Mr. H.'s) opinion the motion of the Phe. Gentleman aimed at no less than the alteration of that security, and the destruction of that confidence. " But at. all events, whatever might be the 'differences of opinion on ,this subject, its importance was such as to entitle it to the amplest • eiscumion; .and'on this account he did not despair of meeting th at atter} tion front the House which, individually, he had no tight te expect.—(Hear.)--Ife had listened with every attention •tol tie speech of the Hon. (lent., but he bad listened also with' , a mixture of astonishment and regret; with astonishment at tie doctrines put forth by the Hon. Member, and with regret at his countenancing. that which would be utterly subversive raiblic faith. Though he acquitted the Hon Member •of any intention to bring about such a subv:rsion, he thought . the Hen. Member had, at least, lost sight of the principles which guided Parliament in•the year 1319, and of every other prins .ciple which it became the House to keep in view. lie (1%Ir: if.) had had the honour of a Seat in that House in the year 17'7, when the suspension of Bank payments by the Bank tack place, and he might venture to say that he.had not been an inattentive observer of the proceedings in Parliament on tl,ie subject since that period; and with his opinions, he really .must nay that, upon a mere hearing of the speech of the Hon.. Gentleman, he should suppose that that Hon. Gentleman did not understand the measure alluded 'to, or any of the legislative . measures which had since been founded upon it. He should ',eve believed that the lion. Member supposed that since the flint suspension in the year 1797, a known and acknowledged difference had prevailed between the nominal and the relative vale's of cur paper money; that the difference had been recog nized by the public and the Legislature ; that all subsequent -dhc.l.ing,s, public and private„had taken place with reference tz this difference, as if it could he exactly measured and eletned ; that a measure had passed to adjust all contracts ac cerling to the nominal value of money; that at least a pro posed cf such a measure had been made, and had been sup- Isteted by the landed interest"; and that aa a necessary con setuenre, all rents, dowers, portions, and - settlements, had bean injured, or proposed to be injured, by such a measure.— This was really what he should have supposed to be the state •of the case, upon the sneech of the Hon. Gentleman. The true and plain fact, however, was, that rents, for instance, had at leant doubled during the time of the depreciation of the mei. money. Upon the speech of the Hon. Gentleman he aught be led to believe that some greedy and unprincipled -crsiltor had come forward and claimed a nominal instead of a relative value in payment, and that the Lion. Gentleman had shaped forward and placed himself and his motion between the debtor and the proposed act of injustice. But he would ask the House, nay, he would ask even the Hon. Member him self, whether this had been the state of things during the time -of the depreciation ? He-confidently asked, was not our situas tien the very reverse cf that upon which alone the argument of the Hon. Gentlern'an could be supported? He begged to ask the Pon. Gentleman whether in the year 1797 debts and en . fragments were adjusted with referetco to the then altered value cf money ? Whether any subsequent engagement had been made with reference to such altered li/slue ? Whether the Jew, on the contrary, did not interfere to prevent any -such adiustrnent ? After the obvious answer to these questions, 11e cotill not divest himself of the first test by which he was to deck at th a present motion. It was whether that motion was con siatent with justice, with honour, cr with the rule of right ?- - Con Id dame be two rules of justice or honour—t,vo rules of right? could there be one rule for the debtor, and another for the cre ,•ditor? The Lion. Member had put the case of an ircumbered estate. • He (Mr. H.) would illustrate the general principle by putting a case for the consideration of the Hon. Member. reappose any one—suppese, for instance, the Hon. Member himself had in the year 1797 a landed estate, which had been' previously mortgaged, and which mortgage still remained.' :suppose also that during the depreciation, the verythiwest point of it, he had given another filottgage, and which mart gage also still remained. He (Mr. Huskisson) asked the siren. Member, and with confidence, whether he would ten deg. the 'first Mortgagee his money, upon a calculation!, with refetence to the depreciated currency ; and say to the; seethid Mortgagee, " Yeti lent me in a depreciated currency, and you must be repaid upon a calculation compared with its value in tire present currency ?" He was quite certain that, if' the lion. 0111;11=7.11 reflected a little on tut: own proposition,' he never would think of mentioning it ; and that he would scorn in his own persona/ case an arrangement which, in prin ciple, he was suggesting for the public, But suppose this rule were applied to another class of persons—to the public credi tor. Did the Honourable Member propose to examine every loan which had taken place during the war; and to abate from the public creditor a shim aeccording to the difference in value at the time of e: eh of these loans ? _lf he would do this, would he, on the other hande propose to be so dishonest as not to compensate the pereon who was a public creditor .prior to the year 1797, for the sums he had lost by being paid etnmany years in A - depreciated currency ? But, to shorten stheinaatter, was sash an adjustment even possible ? would the loan of one year be distinguished from another? It woald be impossible, unless every transaction could be traced through all its branches, and unless the principle were carried thsoagn all public as well as all private dealings. It should be remem bered that it was net merely A or B, the contractoe for :the loan, who was to be considered as responsible. The loan in each case had been divided, subdivided, and probably reunited. Then it was to be observed, that many mortgages contracted tin an undepreciated, had been paid off in a depreciated, curren ei. • Were these transactions, he asked, to be , re-opened ? Yet the principle would apply to every contract which had been closed since the beginning of -the depreciation. Nay, it would be necessary to go further.,. than this. It would be necessary to examine the circuirsttances of every individual; and if they were to go on'apon this soriaciple, it would be im possible not to involve . the whole country in confusion. This 'confusion would be fatal to property ;_and consequently to the existence of the State. Yet, without this danger, the principle of the Hon. Member could - not be adopted ; for it could not be adopted without following ail the transactions between man and man in individual dealings. He had not the slightest in tention of following the Hon.. Member through -all his elabo rate details ; for if he did, he should embarrass the real merits of the question: At acme of the doctrines; however, of the Hon. Member, he cona.ssedd, he was not very much surprised ; for it happened very often, that the theories advanced by those who were considered as practical men, surprised even theorists themselves. Foe instance, the Hon. Member really argued as if the presperity of. the country were to be inferred from the dearness of provisions ; and he seemed to consider a high price, bordering almoet on famine, as a sign of national strength. Ac cording to the Hon. Member, the people were most happy dur ing the dines of high prices; and the Hon. .Member had not failed to notice that in those happy times of high price and dear provisions, the number of criminals had diminished. This had been mentioned as the state of the country in the year 1813. Now he (Mr. H.) Would giVe the lion. Member a few other instanceS, by way of illustrating his argument. In the year 1812, the country Woe in a state of confusion, amounting al most to rebellion, yet accordiag to the data of the Hon. Gen demon, that year ought to be considered as especially prosper ous ; for in this halcyon year the price of wheat was 1255. a quarter; and the taxes, compared with those of the pressed year, were 70 minions • instead of 50. He would also take the year 1815, two years after the favouriteyear of the Hon. Mem ber:" The tastes were then at 79 millions, and the country was of course (iii the opinion of the Hon. Member) almost ruined; for the -wheat having fallen to 645., there was that sereatest of all calamities, a diminution in the price of necessaries. In 1817 there was the greatest distress prevailing all over the kingdom, particularly ip the manufacturing districts. The taxes were at 55 millions; but according to. the lion. Gentleman it must have been a miatake to 'suppose that the country was suffering any thing at'all. for the wheat had got.up to 945. If this noieldoc drineof the,Hotn . Gentleman were entertained, he (Mr. H.) must say that'theyears 1812 and 1817 did. not • bear the Hon. Gentleman:out in his inferences. He (Mr. H.) thought that the country really flourished most when prices were moderate add reasonable, and when the people were enabled to obtain the '•meting of comfort and happiness.. Another of the doctrines of the Hon. Gentleman was, that it :would be proper to raise prices try 'diminishing the value of money. The Hon. Member -rejoin dhink this very expedient; but he (Mr. H.) considered" it ash:consistent with .the safety of the country, and with the fidelity.of 11 publid engage.ments. He considered the stand ard,of value to be s et guarantee that all engagements should be dixed ;• 'and a proof of the sincerity of those, 'engagements ; and he considered teo, that if the standard were left subject to arbitrary and fanciful variationS,there would be an end of all security'' Re 'could not but remark that the Hon. Member sat in that Itahae during the passing of most "of the Suspension Acts ; ai'di that he supported all the measures for promoting a return to .cash, payirsefitss .. The Hon. Member had perhaps re ceived some new lights oh the subject, though his doctrines themselves.wefe by no means new.• They had in substan co been recommended by. -bow and others,, and highly popular among debtors. When they were first introduced into France they raisect the fame of Law; and that country became intoxicated with the false appearance of prosperity, which was created by the adoption of those dtactrinesno[The Right Hon. Gentleman here referred to aspamphlefpublished in France . during the continuance of Law's well known bubble, highly extolling that projector.l—Another.strange doctrine of the Hon. Mem ber appeared to be that he considered corn AS a standard of value Was preferable to gold or silver, because it was an article of general consumption throughout the country. But what standard could 'possibly be so objectionable as a corn stand. aid ? This country had in some years produced more corn than it consumed ; and as we, were shut up by the war, the price of corn fell consielerThly, for we could not export it. And i£ the article of general consumption were to be. taken as the standard of value, would not potatoes be consi dered that of Ireland ? And if so, what standard would the 'Honourable Member adopt for that country durilig the present _ . year ? He really regretted when he heard the Hon. Member suggest this idea of a corn standard. He by no means intended to follow the Hon. Gentleman through all his mistatements and erroneous views ; but there was one which he could not allow. to pass unnoticed. He had stated that in 1312, when prices were high, we flourished, and that notwith standing the high price,. the consumption of corn had been greater than it was at present, without making any allowance for increase of population. He stated also, that in 1822, with the low price of corn, the consumption had considerably diminished. But the fact was, that in 1312 we imported as much corn as we possibly could from abroad; and this was im a ' ported to London, and from thence supplied different parts of the country. The Returns of the Hon. Member referred to . London, so .that the excess was more seeming than real, and no inference whatever' could be drawn from the circumstance alluded to. The practical remedy, however, proposed by the Hon. Member, consisted of one of two courses. Either to ad just all contracts in existence in the year 1797, or entered into since ; or to take at once an average scale of depreciation and apply it to all these contracts. The first was clearly it-nitre:a cable, and the second was unjust as well as impracticable.— The Hon. Member had drawn a comperison upon the situation of the proprietor of land worth 10001. a year, with a charge upon it of five hundred pounds a year; and the Honourable Member went on to observe, that if the rent fell to 5001. a year, the proprietor would be ruined. Very true, but this was assuming the rent to be in a depreciated currency, and the ohazge to he paid in one which was undepreciated. Not that this was of any consequence ; for, however great might be the depreciation, there had been a full compensation given for it. He who now suffered an inconvenience from the restora tion, had first benefited by the depreciation. The mortgagee had paid his share of taxes, and all oubiic burthens, although he had received his interest in a depreciated currency ; and he had now a right to the benefit of the restoration. These bene fits and liabilities were correspondent, and must actually take place in the course of any public event; but, to say that the proprietor of a landed estate suffered more than any other per son, was to misrepresent the true state of the case. All the charges upon the land were defrayed before the payment of the rent; and it made no possible difference whether the income was derived from rent or,from any other source— The return to cash-payments, on the whole, would have but a temporary effect; and it would be found that rents had not fallen, and could . not fall lower than the standard of 1797. The landed interest had gained very considerably during the depreciation, and on the whole would, he believed, have the comparative advantage.—There was a class, . however, con nected with the landed interest, whose situation was unfairly affected. He alluded to the tenantry. They had embarked their capital, and had incurred debts during the depreciation ; and the inconvenience suffered by them was, he admitted, one of the unfortunate consequences attending our being without a fixed standard.—(hear, hear, heat I)—But the Hon. Member wished us again to be withoutit.—(Cheers.)--The Hon. Member did not distinguish between the diminution of money and the profitable employment of capital. That which the Hon. Member considered as the recommendation was in fact the evil. it en couraged speculation, gambling, and hazardous pursuits. 'Was it possible that we could avow this to be our system, and not destroy all confidence? The Hon. Member said, that the de preciation was not to be measured by the difference between . the Mint price and the market price of gold. He (Mr. If.) always maintained that the value of money might be diminished from various causes, but this circumstance he never considered as giving a creditor a right to call for indemnity in conse quence of the depreciation. While the depreciation was going on, did any one ever think of proposing to adjust the cur rency to the diminished value ? Thediscovery of the American mines must have had this effect • and if the corn standard were adopted, this must have occurred very frequently. To intro.: duce such principles would lead to universal confusion. The Houourable Member appeared to consider, indeed he had stated, that our present situation was without any precedent. He thus assumed that there had never before • been a derange ment of our currency. But a reference to the reign of 'Wil liam the Third would soon produce a parallel with our present situation. This was abundantly proved by a reference to the documents lately published, containing the correspondence of Talbot Duke of Shrewabury. The house would do well to take historical experience for its guide, and refer to the clocu runts to which he had alluded. The difficulties mentioned in those documents arose out of the re-coinage in the year 1695, of the clipped silver money. [The Right Hon. Gentleman here referred to the lately published work of Archdeacon Coxe, containing the Duke of Shrewsbury's Correepontlence.) It ap peared that this re-coinage at first aggravated the evil it was intended to remove. The guinea was raised to thirty shillings, paper currency was reduced in value twenty per cent. the army went unpaid, and the Duke, •writing to the King, who was then abroad with his army, gave a dismal account of the 'roantry. He told the King that the. only remedy would be to let the Parliament sit in June—tA laugh.)--and to let the clipped money go out again i • " and yet," the Duke added, a° to do trus, will be to undo all. that has been done." Now 'he (Mr. H.) :hiked the House whether this was not exactly whet was proreosed by the Hon. Member ?—[The Right Hon. Gentleman lire again. referred to the correspondence between William the Third and the Duke of Shrewsbury.)—The King seemed alehoet overcome by the Duke's statement; expressed his fears of a mutiny hi his army, and yet he did not hesitate to _meet the Parliament upon his return, and impress upon them the necessity of maintaining the coinage, although he was besieged by Petitions from all parts of the country calling for a restoration of the clipped money. In the year 1696 a motion was made in that House that no alteration should be made in the standard of gold and silver. At the pe riod he alluded to, the deficiency in the silver currency was equal to any depreciation of late date. There was a deficiency of nearly one half, which was equal to a depreciation of 50 per cent. ; yet King William did not hesitate at all hazards to sup port the standard of value. The Hon. Gentleman supposed that alteration in the currency in the reign of William made no di Terence with respect to commodities, but that was an errone ous view. Wool fell in price with other commodities. King William, notwithstanding the difficulties which continued up to the peace of Ryswick, never gave up the interest of the country, with respect to the coinage. The succession war had, however, plunged the country into a state of debased currency, but the Government at last returned to the standard. If the Honourable Gentleman wished for an altera tion of the standard, he warned the House against such a project. It would lead to a convulsion, which every friend to the.country must deprecate. it was perhaps the intention of the Honourable Member to go into a Committee to inquire into the subject ; but what would be the effect of such in quiry on the prosperity of the country ? Did not the Honour able Gentleman see- that the value of gold coin would - be raised. There would be a demand for all the gold and silver currency, and the result would be, that this Metropolis and the country would be thrown into a state of confusion. There would be a general destruction of all contracts, and a demand for, gold coin to save it until the period should arrive when the value of gold would be enhanced. By adopting the lion. Membet's suggestion, distress would reach all classes. That House would not to its duty to the country if it confined itself to giving a common negative to the motion of the Hon. Mem ber. It become the House, after it. had laid down the standard of value, to leave no doubt on the course it should pursue. Looking to precedent and the feelings of the public—looking to the mischief which must ensue from the adoption of the Hon. Member's motion, he should conclude by recommending the House to adopt the precedent of 1696. It became the duty of the House to re-affirm those Resolutions of 1696, and there fore the Right lion. Member proposed as an amendment to insert these words:—" That this House will not alter the standard of gold or silver in fineness, weight. or denomination." The original motion and the amendment having been put by the SPEAKER,— Lord A. HAMILTON rose and observed, that when he seconded the motion of his Hon. Friend, his object was that the House should go into an inquiry. He denied the impu tations thrown out by the Right Hon. Gentleman on the views of his Honourable Friend. If the motion had for its object to repeal the Bill, which w as genera lly k nown by t h e name o f Mir. Peel's Bill, without examination or inquiry, he should not be the person to second it. But the object of his Hon. Friend was. to institute an inquiry into the state of the cur rency, by which so large a portion of the community was re duced 'to such great distress. That distress was 'acknow ledged by the Right Honourable Gentleman himself. He would refer to the Report on Agriculture, in which the Right Honourable Gentlemen said, that the tenants of the country were obliged to pay the demands on them out of a reduced capital. They had done--they were still doing— and they shonld continue to do, a great injury to a great por tion of the comm u nity. It was t h en b ut fair and reasonable to inquire how that evil might be 'averted, or if not, haw it could be made to sit as light as possible on those whom it affected. If he were certain the Bill could not be maintained without changing the property of the,.country, was ft not in cumbent on him to inquire into the effects it was producing? He had heard a Member, whom he did not then see in his place ; state, that all the landed property in-the Country was mortgaga ed to the Triadic creditor, and when the landowner failed to perform the terms of the mortgage, it was then competent to the creditor to foreclose the mortgage, and to seize on the lands in lieu of his debt.--(No, no !)—lie was glad to see the Right Honourable Gentlemen opposite signify their dissent from a proposition so' unjust. No proposition could be made from his side with a view to relieve the distresses of the country, but it was immediately repudiated by the Right Honoura ble Gentlemen opposite, as tending to break faith with the public creditor. With respect to the charge made on his Hon. Friendgfor the incorrectness of his theories as to high and low .prices ' he would 'confess that for his part 'he would be an ad vocate for low prices of all the necessaries of life. The country had not yet had the advantage of the proposition of his Hon. Priend. In 1816, the subject of cash payments was under the consideration of the Houle. The Bank of England then gave notice that they were ready to. pay off their one and two pound notes. There were several Members, however, among whom he was one, who did net afterwards observe that any progress was made by the Bank. - :The subect was brought under the notice of the House i n th e t wo following Sessions. The Bank was relieved from the payment of those notes by the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite, who brought in .a Bill for that purpose, and, so far from giving the measure due consideration, it was carried through all its stages in one night. He limited his support of the present motion to in quiry. By the conduct of the Bank they were reduced to that state, that they should do evil to a large portion of the community. He confessed he had no confidence in the Gentlemen opposite on that subject. It was by their conduct, in opposition to the principles of the Honourable Gentle men who sat on his side of the House, that the country was plunged into its present difficulties. The Right Hon. Gentleman had asked why the Bill was not opposed when it was before the Mouse ? J No man who recollected the speech of the Right Honourable Member for. Liverpool could be sure prised at that. With regard to the Bill itself, he would admit that it was a correction of a n ev il. B ut there were cases in which the cure was worse than the disease. He did not mean to say that it was a had cure under other circumstances, but they applied it to circumstances to which it was not applicable. —The country was still growing worse—and if the time should come when the manufacturers would feel the same degree of suffering that the Agricultural body did now—the House would not evade the application of a remedy so easily. Be was anxious for inquiry.—There were ample grounds for investiga tion.—[At the conclusion of the Hon. Member's Speech, seve ral Members exclaimed—Adjourn ! Adjourn ! The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, if It was the feel ing of the House that the 'question ought to be adjourned, it would be advisable to adjourn forthwith. At the same time he felt that considerable inconvenience would arise if the coun try was kept in suspense upon the subject. The Noble Mar quis did not feel that any consideration ought to induce the House to adopt the inquiry recommended, and he should there fore wish to come to a decision though the debate should iast to a late hour. Mr. BROUGFIADI felt the great expediency of coming to a decision that night : at the same time he could not but depre cate the difficulty the Right Honourable Gentlemee had raised. Many who might oppose the motion of his Honourable Friend, would not vote for the proposition cf the Right Honourable Gentleman. Mr. - BENNET then moved, that further' debate on this question be adjourned till to-morrow. Mr. BROUGHAM said, his Hon. Friend did not perhaps recollect that the Honourable Member for Somerset had a Motion for to-morrow, which would be • prevented by the ad journed debate. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY had sorne hope that the Hon. Member, whom he saw in his place, would not ob ject to a further postponement of his motions Sir T. LETHBRIDGE said, he was ready to give way in compliance with the wishes of the House, but he was not pre pared to name any other day for his motion. The debate on Mr. WEsT.EnN's Resolutions was then ad journed till to-morrow—(this day.) . On the Order of the Day for bringing up the Report of the Insolvent Debtors' Bill, Mr. CREEVEY opposed any proceeding - upon the Bill after an adjourned. debate; and after a few observations from the ATTORNEY-GENERAL, declared his intention to divide the House. The gallery,wae accordingly cleared, and the House being counted, forty Members were not present, in copse queece cf which they adiourzied at ONE O'CLOCE. An official return to on order of the House of Commons,. states the .e.mocnt of balance in the hands of the Treasurer of the County cf . Mcldleaex on th e I fith April, 1822, at 16,9741..165. 61 KENT COUNTY MEETING. AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS AND PARLIAMENT• ARV REFORM Yesterday a Meeting was held in the market place, Maidstone, to consider of a Petition to Parliament on the distressed state of the country, and the defective Represent ation of the People, which as attended by Lord Darnley, the Earl of Thanet, Lord Clifton, the Hon. C. Noel, Sir Edward Knatehbull, Bart. M. P., W. P. Honywood, Eaq. M. P. and a numerous body of tientlemen Freeholders, Clergytnen, and Yeomen of the County. At half-past twelve o'clock, JOHN PowELL, Esq. the High Sheriff', with his friends, ascended a temporary platform that had been erected in the market-place, and read the requisition to him to call the Meeting, which was signed by upwards of 400 noblemen and distinguished individuals of the County. He then read a letter from Lori Sondes, apologizing for his absence, but assuring the Meeting that he was warmly attached to the cause they were met to diScuss, and that he was convinced there must be a change in the system that was now pursued. Jorrie CHARLES Foo'rE Esq. of Charlton, said he would trespass a few moments on tie attention of the company. He was incauab/e Of describing the distressing state of the country, but he thought it was a time when every person should come forward and lend their aid to some measure that-would, at least, attempt to render assistance t o th e ru i ne d agriculturists; tradesmen, and peasantry of the country, who were reduced to the lowest state of degradation, by the heavy pressure of the burdens that they endured. It was true that some few taxes had been remitted, but nothing had been done for them which would remove the weight which bore them down. The agricul turist and merchant were ruined by the low price of material*, the consequence was, that the labourer could not find employ, and he was unable to sustain that character in the nation which he and his forefathers had enjoyed for centuries, and without which he could not live. There were persons. who objected to favour the cause of the agriculturist, because it could not, they said, be done but at the expense of the commercial in terest. For his -own part, he conceived all were entitled to relief, for the taxes were so enormous, and the price . of tna terials so low, that distress pervaded every Class of the.cornum- I nity, and made them all equally entitled to commiseration...— . It was necessary that we should be protected against the in troduction eaf foreign corn into our markets. lie believed that . a large quantity of foreign corn found its way into our mar kets, under the name of Irish corn, much, very much; to the injury of our trade He was rejoiced to find the question of our ,distresses was identified with Reform. We required o experimental projects,—we wished to see the influence of the Crown circumscribed—to have short Parliaments, and the right of voting extended to those who have interest in the State,—or at least, to copyholders as well as free holders. If something shortly was not done, nothing could save the nation from a bankruptcy. H e admired the patri otic principles of Lord Russell, and that noble band , which had so ably contended with the peoples' oppressors. By their joint aid it was, that the diminution in the taxation that had taken place was effected ; and he trusted that they would persevere in the sense laudable way, within the walls of the Commons House, while the enemies of oppression and profligate expenditure were exerting themselves in various parts of the country. Here he read the Petition which was in tended to be presented to Parliament. In very strong terms, it complained of the distresses the country was labouring under, which it attributed mainly do the immense taxation. It charged that there was the most wanton expenditure in almost every branch of the finances, and strongly insisted upon the ne cessity of a Reform in Parliament, as the only means of rescu ing the country from ruin. After having submitted the Peti tion to the assembled multitude, he observed that the capital of the agriculturists was nearly exhausted, and that if they were suffered to perish, inevitable ruin must fall upon the country. He trusted that the hirelings of Government would be disap pointed, and that the sturdy Freeholders of Kent would finally conquer their enemies. THOMAS RIDER, Esq. of Broughton-place, seconded the reading of the Petition. He considered the cause of the dis tresses of the country, to arise, in a great measure, from the change in the currency, and the frightful load of taxes ; and he could not conceive a stronger argument in favour of Reform, than that a few years before the late war, the total expenditure of the nation amounted to only nineteen millions, and that now, in a time when We land was blessed with a profound peace, the taxes annually collected amounted to upwards of seventy mil lions. The distresses of the country and Parliamentary Re form, he considered were subjects that were bound to each other, as the same remedies must be applied to both. The Placemen and Pensioners were now become so numerous, and they were so notoriously corrupt, that they did not hesitate in going down to the House to support Ministers in every enormity that might be reqUired of them. It had been said that Reform was not supported by any persons of respectability ; but the present requisition, signed by upwards of 400 wealthy persons, gave the most positive contradiction to such an assertion. He would conclude by recommending them to persevere in the cause which was making such rapid strides, and if petitioning would not do, why then souse stronger course must be adopted. Lord DARNLEY said he had been requested, in the early part of the twat, to add his name to a requisition, to con sider of the - distresses of the agricultural interest, which he had declined to do, being satisfied that, if they expected to reap any ads - enrage from Parliament, they would. be dis appointed. His Lordship wig not of opinion that a small diminution of taxes would effect much good, nor that the evils complained of originated with the present Parliament, but a late one, which had brought down all the evils on the nation which it had now to complain of, and therefore he re fused to interfere with the proposed Meeting; but he now saw that the distresses arose from excessive taxation, whack' the country was unable to bear, anti for that reason he had felt it his duty to attend this Meeting. it was not so much by direct taxation, as by indirect taxation, that the agricultu rists and traders were injured. By it they were compelled to buy every thing dear, and to sell cheap. He did not conceive, that by raising the price of produce, theY would obtain any re lief; and much less did he believe that they could be benefited by distressing the fundholders. When the great debt was con tracted, the stockholders did not know the mischief they were doing by lending their money ; but they were led to do so, and he thought that the debt must be honestly paid; but when it became impossible to discharge it, a meeting of creditors must be called, and as much must then be paid as could; but he thought it was the duty of the country to pay as long as it was able. The only substantial benefit that could take place MS a reform in Parliament; and he did not knew how that could be effected but' in the House of Commons. He advised the de:- tors to be cautious, at the next general election, of the persons whom they returned for the several places in the county to re present them in Parliament • and, if they wished for a reform, they were to electFewo Gentlemen who were in it s f a vou r , an d then the greater part of their Members would be friendly to re form. Sir 1 1 4. KNATCFIBULL, Bart. M.P. regretted that he could not coincide with the opinions of the Gentlemen who had pre ceded him. The two objects of the petition were great and important, and he was sorry to see them connected in one paper. In any measure that was calculated to relieve the dis tresses cf the country, he would gladly concur; but he could not give his consent that that subject and Parliamentary Reform should be discussed at the same time. He consider ed that if the second branch of the petition was net then dis cussed, that all parties would be united on the other heed ; but if they were to be mixed up together, he should tel it• his . duty to oppose the question of JR.eferni, when it came before the House. The Gentleman who moved the read ing of the petition, had stated, that he knew it for a fact, that a great quantity of foreign corn had been brought into our market under the name or Trish corn ; hut he was sorry that in the various opportunities that Gentleman had had of disclosing such a circumstance beneficially to the nation, he had never before communicated his knowledge on t::e subject. Within the last twelve months the amount of taxes had been reduced upwards of four millions, which showed that Mini. stets were not composed of such worthless inatesials as read been represented; on the contrary, he ccnsidc:ed they were entitled to the gratitude of the country, for the exertions th e y had made to reuce the expences of the nation. (Here a - general murmur ran through the Meeting, and seve- 1 ral times " gratitude" was repeated with much contempt and indignation). He concluded by stating that he should be sorry to ieterfere with the petition ; but If it continued in its present shape, he should feel himself bound to oppose it in the lecuse. Mr. RmEn, of Broughton Place, could not make as his mind to be grateful for tt:c exertions of Ministers for the good they had done to the country. He thought that the four mil lions that were expended in Collecting the taxes, went into the pockets of men who were mere creatures of Government, and who were ready to go down to the House to do whatever was required of them. Mr. LAIIKIN said he should give the petition his roost un qualified support. The profuseness of Ministers, he said, was unparalleled. They squandered away millions of the public money with the utmost indifference las to the distress of the country. The House of Commons, he said, represented three different ceders of beings. The first was the great laud holder, who was anxious only to receive his rents-- but, he believed, he now saw the folly cf his avarice. The I second was the great Pundholder, who was endeavouring to preserve his dividends,. and the third was the de fenders of Ministers, whose principal business it was to attend the desires and inclinations of the Ministers, with a view to keep firmly in their pieces. This Gentleman, in a speech of ceerecierable length and ability, reviewed the progress , of increasing expences since the year 1792, and the extensive patronege which was nominally held by the Crown, bu t Wrig in reality, was under the controul Of Ministers. , t i n g At this time CORBE TT p resente d hi mse lf to the ga' a a, a waggon, about twenty y ar d s di stant f rom the High ad His appearance created a general bustle, some anP a a others hissing, and the more liheral part of the crow queutly desiring that all might be heard. Among th e e was Lord Thanet, who said " bet every man be je e r : Who is he?, inquired one. Is he a freeholder ? asked elaa, and at last the question became so general, that the aa'=" riff rose and asked Mr. Cobbett if he was a freeholder Mr. COBBETT answered-I am. This answer did not satisfy many of the G e ntlemen'f seemed to imagine that Cobbett w a s not a freeholder ° b , county ; and again the High Sheriff asked if he was a of Kent ? Mr. COBBETT.-i am a freeholder of Kent. Nir There was evidently some do u bt on th e subject, ant y bett did not say in wh at part o f t h e co u nt y his PM . situated ; but he was suffered to proceed. Mr. COBBETT.-A slight omission in what the Lord and the other gentlemen have said, induces a b trouble you with a few remarks on this occasion. It ba tte d) observed that there had net before been so many names a t o ,e), to a requisition for a Reform Meeting as on the paes e Loa' shot, and they rejoiced because the cause was making b c ;i, it o 7 but the Gentlemen had forgotten to say, as in comtn e tice they should have said, that it was the Radicals ems. that were doomed to prison for attempting to effect ti ha purpose as this body ple. They first begun .the work. When they, he inea te d , was now canine; so serviceable to L a , party, were crammed into a prison, they, were then des,. a ela pa no one had any feeling for them ; but they had a "7' l " 'af 4 ; others, notwithstanding. • A great deal had been ss'n s a rel; Reform, and the corruption ,of the House of Parliament ' a awe, the House was not corrupt, it had i tse lf to ld a great fr"-ael because it had, through Lo r d L on d on d erry , ac k n owledg e a pe' it was corrupt. He did- no t w i s h to see our A c ts 0.40,,e, paper, he wished something p ra Cti ca bl e to b e done. had not been said about eteform a : but they moata a n eat Act of Parliament to set about it, if they knew how t° v r ;;o:,' This Petition very Civilly asked th e H ouse o f C ommo ns t ° aja itself ? But, was any one foolish enough to suppose It vi- elf attended to ? The Noble Lord had said, that the e lectorl e atS to return honest men at the next general election. l eee ° place, he objected to the time; in the next place, he W: u .g like to wait ; and if they did wait, is it not probable th e O a will have the same Members returned ? Those who tit power to retuin Members now Will have it then; aa s ° t o be we wait till the next genera l e l ect i on , we are liN o ;ear just as well off as we w ere then, and no better. would have it enforced, b u t i n a legal way. The gr c et:-. e . jority of the electors of th e county were P eer s an a ate°, men, and he thoureht that this meetin g s h ou ld neti a ," ° ; - get': to reform themselves. Th e y h a d the power to do '"'''o o " and if they did not do it, the scenes that would e% tv in this country would be chargeable to them. in ° bring about a Reform, th e N o bl e L or d s h ou ld bring } the his musty title deeds, which deprived the people ° o r es' county of being represented in Parliament, and bur ° ,, n ee ... ,t 9 If he would do this, he would be rendering an assiraoala . his ccuntry, and the freeholders and yeomen would aaw a hit° better if instead .of this petition, they were to p 3 ti, h - ro ftiag, to lead the way -to ,Reform, by. coming in and the down the emblems of his authority. The other Pan e ,: e petition is expressed very well, and they knew it s 'iart that taxation was the cause of their distresses! , va le"' mode had been pointed out h ow we were to be relic fe es The Noble Lord had said, l et t h em b e h onest; hon es to the to Castlereagh; so he would, but. he would be hon estSt ; e s nation also,. anti...relieve them from the l o ad of ° le s'n, sure had theren m as dishonestly eiestleyde of put obviating e the th ir e j o s u ta l ess ders• ei inbro t e a b s c , o reduction of the Nati o nal D e b t ; there were 71 nt ba ; taxes to be reduced. If they were to discharg.l Data the army, half the navy, and th e w h o le o f the Ci bo ft d ! , there would be still forty millions of taxes t o raise ' l4 '" nineteen, as in the year 1792 ; and it was foolish t° " Wa s and tell the nation that it could ever - s i n k to t he sue°, The in that year, except by a reduction of th e na tional deb t ' loft Noble Lord had said that taxes were to be paid a, "d an as they could, that is to say, till we dropped now° re '°, stiffin our ditches, or until we were red uc ed to the fire reet'' the transparency at the Opera House, which his Ms a laailstarn to see the other night, rep rese n t i ng I re l an d in 3 u s ,' DOW' in condition. He thought, accordin g to the Nobl e ds° opinion of draining, that he himself was likely t° 81° to 4° parish in one of his own waggons. He advised thel o', as he did, and never eat or d r i n k an y t hi ng which,P a la tag% and then they would sport an d l aug h as he could, far thing was taken f r om the f un dh o ld er . The 'a n , t would be, glad to hear of the reduction of the deb' expence of the fundholders ; but still they said, t a a a ghar part from our boroughs : no ; ' we must k eep ou r Wallet° , and send our friends to Parliament, and get places f° r , wea' and he should like to know fo r w h at t h e D ev il th e7 a to line their money, any mor e th an t h e b oroug htnel e r borough. lie sahould like to add to the prayer. crad th a l t e t 'toe:; should be reduced, so that the child in the not be mortgaged to the Jew in Change-aller av i j a y/ we ita 4 opinion that the Lord and peasant were pillar u- a n g tb ° Jobbers, and by those persons who were constantly h a s v ata ed , cry of national faith in their mouths. In conclusion "?--..ated te by way of amendment, that a petition should be prefie sse j to the Louse of Commons, praying that it wouldbe /4.,e the make a just reduction in the interest of the debt, as s°?' House should have completed a Reform in Pad/ame n " , Mr. MARTIN seconded th e amen d ment . ot Lord DARNLEY said he n ev e r h a d t h e pleastare_aaaa sin faction of seeing or hearing the G en tl ema n who " c ar:Oi amendment before, and whose abilities every one mtlat a l ere ledge; and he defended the p r i n cipl e , t h at t h e fundhcn o O s 13 contracted the debt honestly, and th a t th ere fore the '.- 0 401 bound to pay them. Mr. CORBETT answered the Noble Lord. Ne alg' vibt °ll that every man had a right to a voice in the measure cat were to etspose of his property. If this was to be fa a ore there would not be different opinions on points why'', sa l e ; the common interest of all; it would not then be like e t on e man and his wife, when the husband was looking °n: a talai window, and the wife at the other. Th e N o bl e Lord at r ia ,° ed of paying honestly, but he could not consider tbe4iee 2° corn at what it is now, as being fairiecompared to it s 1814. Mr. BICKNELL, of Greenwich, was hostile to * lt-f --- - „ ea Pe tra:4. and amendment, and proposed sever a l reso lutions of a - oos,, nature, but which, however, we re not - put to the vote' for w t them was, that a subscription s h ou ld b e ente red into a relief of such persons as should apply for assistance ; the Gentlemen who signed the Requisition should be' mittee to judge of the merits of their case. The petition was then put to the vot e , w i t h 1 ,1 1 r• e° 1 1 1 1 1 : . motion attached as a rider, which was ca r r i e d alm ost, mously, and among the Contents was Lord Dandle c ern' Sir E. KNATCTIBULL suggested that the pain° a d a°l was irreconcileable to the principles of Lord DarnleY, ! ;art es caved it must have been misund ers t oo d th a t the Oat" - „ amendment were not together. titn °- Lord DARNLEY declar .d that lie agreed with the se 3 es t.,, of Mr. Cobbett, if he meant by b e i ng fast was to be Of P,.- Mr. COBBETT said he cons id ere d that the Inte r n National Debt ought to be reduced. d n;l Lord DARNLEY could not ac ce de to this poo r - e ia d, '- thought every man ought to pay th e d e bt s h e coati the same reasoning would apply to a nation. h's Mend, V Mr. CORBETT declared his willingness to submit - A i g l e meat to the Meeting again. It was not just, he sain , aa ta three bushels of wheat now for the same price as svas aa r t oot r ,'; one in 1812. The change of the currency had real . '„ 7 l,oo 64 • t a buted to make this difference, and it was not fair toba v , l " to v °- on the lips and roguery in the heart. He wished then for the rider, or to reject the whole. c•v t The petition and amendment were th en again Pl t • ° was 90 ried unanimo us ly ; b ut L or d D arn l e y o n thisoccaate° among those who voted for it. o yal- At the breaking up of theaafeeting, Mr. BlrrS i Plitio"' that the thanks of the meeting should be given CO , '„%tiou< Esq. for the zealous attention to the interests of the =-°' go.' t he re , t This motion was objected to, as not forming part o f t woe sition ; but after a few words from Lord CLIFTON L ti Of the motion, it was carried with much acclamation s houl d - A motion was also made, that the County Mewl: 7o l . a Wa s be requested to present th e P e ti t i on to t h e house Wes''' also agreed to. After which, the thanks of the 3eet'b given to the High Sheriff, and the Assembly disPer' One of the Judges of the Court of o” pa r to Terminer, in Philadelphia, on the Bth of May, comi ni , t , t- lot 0 of the Counsel to p r i s o n un til th e l it o f J une , for c' 4lt°- Court. hin& Sulcine.—Monday evening-, two lads h at l os in the Regent's Canal, near Battle Bridge, observed a ' o rt. walking '.p and down the banks of the Canal in a stray:g e t - 0 0f nor on their retiring from the Canal, they saw h i , ll ; soo n himself into it. The lads gave an instant alarm, ar= l .` t 1 t 7 w as Nave/ - r. possible, assistance came, and the body the Maitienhes.d public-house, kept by Mr, You r g' a 011 Cramer the surgeon was instantly called in, who u se bat the means prescribed by the Royal Humane Socilr'esed t© no cffeet, as life was extinct. The deceasi'd was 03 in a blue coat and dark trowsers. On his left srfr i l y one, tatooed a Mermaid; upon his person was found o f b.r - L s ling, and no cioclunerit to prove his name or p riot abode... The present is the third dead body taken out hg part of the Canal within forty hours, and carried t.O tile enhead. The corpse now lies at Islington Church to si./0' Terdict of the Coroner's Jury.