The Sun. — London, England, 1811-01-05 00:00:00

4 j t .f I fair lehliention to a case of rolleitaturlty and long eeperience and observation. There was therefore only the precedent of I7Ber, on which this whole question was to rest. Of that precedent' he should 4mly toy that it out; imperfect and incomplete. It stood recommended only on the groundS, of eXpedi ency and should the wounds at eXeedieucy which recommended it sin 1768 now be rei!emeneutled itr tan 3 Must we forgei all the great events that sieves pissed since that period, and the important consequences which they have produced'? .I,4Ste the Constitution suffered nothing from the overwhelm ing influence that has at isen from the FrenCh itevu ltattarr; is not more care, more vigilance, Inure esiergyelpore aetiiity Accessary now to uphold it, and to maintain the extensive interests ,of this, great Empire than at any lousier time Yet such is the Element when it is proposed . to shackle and curtail tit it power by which the increased vigilance, ener gy, and paw, are to be exercised. When the at-.' tack of tbroign enemies is to be repelled, %lien_ in leinatdiscontent is to be controuled, you would withdraw from him on whom you impose; all these arduous'oskse the means of accompliseiog Hier ob jects you would requite at his. hands. You would have supported the edifice of the State, yet you would cut away the ground, un which it must stand.' If their. Lordships were not prepared thus toexpose the means of the safety of the country, yet they would concur in .the ainendment which tie now moved. 'he Noble Marquis then concluded with moving to have out that part of the resolution beginnieg with 'the words " subject to such restrictions and ltuMtst t &C. &C. Lord SiassouTH rose, not to follow the Noble Marquis through the detail of his arguments, but to express the feelings which he laboured under on the resent occasion,and discharge the duties which they imposed on liim. The question now was, to fill up the defect in the personal exercise et the Royal Au -thorhy, during the temporary illness, for temporary he trusted it would prove, ot the Sovereign on the Throne. In the discussion of • this great question, be had been told, that, he should lay aside all per sonal feelings. He woad adopt no such advice, he would not lay asi.le his feelings, for be knew that such sympathy should not be disregarded. But though he should willingly' attend to them, they should WA make him depart a 'Wes breath ii front the Saki line of his public duty. Such was the wise and provident nature of the British Constitution, that it seemed to foreiee and provide for all enter gencies. It did provide for the present emergency, for as the rights and prerogatives of. the' Crown were given for the good at, the people, so when any deteci arOse in the exercise of those rights it devolved on the•two estetes of the realm, on their Lordships and on the other Houses of Parliament, to supply any, defect winch might occur in the other branch of the Constitutinn, - Accordingly as soon as the nielau ch ly feet had been ascertained,. of his Majesty's in capacity to exercise the functions ept the royal au , thority, the tight of aupplying that detect d e volved on the t wo Houses. They "certainly possessed that right. But between the. posseeseet of that right e and -the exercise of it there was a invtetial difference.- . .-t The terms were by no Meetis synonituuute They wouel cautiously abstain from the "exercise of the right as long as CireUa!Ataiices would al low, and they should always feel it an evil to he obliged to transfer the Royal functions from the leighing King to any other person, however respect able. lit precet ding to we in consequeoce ut the ascertained incapacity of the Monarch to exercise the ropki steleeity, they would nut lose sight of the re p„rtof th e pe y , e s ans , by which tact had been ascertained. It (here appeared, that . althuugh for the time , his Majesty was incapacitated to discharge the royal functions, yet strong hni,es we're entertain ed and expressed by those physicians of his Ma jesty's recovery. itusweis of all ,of them were fav`otnable , and a mere coitfideist seep! e ee n e se to be entertained by rhem ot the King's recov fly t hau during his illness in the year 178 H. His Majesty was still in the full pessesstoteol hie pe,ti ticai„capicoy, and the ease We hail pow ttiprovide for, was to be regulated byelie necessity which 'pro duced it—What necessity existed for conferring on the Regent tie: whole unlimited, unrestrained prero getives of the Crown ? We ere told, indeed, that the Regent must possess the means and the power of carrying on the business of the Goveremeet. Let those, howeier, who say so„ shew that in weer to Carry lilt the Government, the Regent must have the pow& of making Peers. We are told by those who would grant unlimited power* to the Regent— or rather, who would transfer from the King to the Regent, all the prerogatives of the Kingly power— that the Regent must be aimed with all the ere . ereies and the means of resisting our external or ioternal enemies. Granteds that, he b 110Uld ; but are all those energies to 'prove unavailing unless he pos. seas the power: of making Peers, or is debarred from exercising it only for a year ? No doubt the Regent merit have the • cote ruul over the easy and sassy, and over the revenue. .11M here, again, 'how Much hos the influence arising, frornboth navy and army, ncreased situx the period to 1788 ? The at my i and navy have since (lota a. The revenue, which 'as then 40 millions, has since swollen to flu or 7O" Are we then to be told, that With all this acculmation of intim rice, the Regent e ill Hot have power enough, unless you ado •the poster et making Peers ? Besides, is there nothing to be apprehended from tt.e advisers of the Regent ? lit nut temporary authority, front its very pa tine, more liable to be abthiSti 'than permanent trutliority ? is it not Often all i llee nove to t h at very abuse'? _ Care should therefore be taken to ba lance accurately the CireUitialailees on both skim— F..ir his part, he should ti el that he betrayed his kiwi if he consented to pass 41Way . .ati atom Of his n o pif Autlnirhy, UllioiS it were clearly made out to him that the possession of that degree of autho rity was absolutely necessary to carry on the busi- Deis of itle Government. As' to the state of the King Hou.cliold,' should it, not igt considered that there is ail illCipient , stilte 01 recovery in %Omit it (night „be essential that his Majesty should eye bitusell surrounded by those persons to %Will he liad teen itccostonica 1 And it they were tound to have been r,ittoved, what, painful feelitv might there tint :wise to the Revel' tuind at discovering 'elicit a removal, especially in the state of health to winch he had just Minded. It was to that inter. me diate state to which he could not but look with the uttnotianxiely. It was my thi n g which would irtitate a such a woulvtit that he uiu3t moat car nestly ilepdceate, The Noble Viscount again re, verted to the precedent of 178 e, The preceeding at that time Wail highly approi , ed by, his 4Vlajesty, and was hailed by theliccorahhg voice of the nation. It was sanctioned by the gi..ve4 slid Most enlight etied authorities of th.it day ; and It was In every rtt speet a precedent front which, on an occasion like the present, their Lordshi;e.,.be was convinced, would not lightly depart. Loid ERSKINa agreed, t hit Parliament should not presume to touch the Royal AOthurity until it had beers solemnly end satisfitc:orily sheWn, that the ex ercise of. the Royal Functions were seterrupted,to the detriment of, the public service., But when the fiet of his Majesty's ins apacity had once been established, no delay should ha%e been allowed to interviene,'end an imMediate remedy ought to have been applied, without hesitation, or refusal to proceed to those acts which it was the ditty of the awo Houses to perform. It' had been insinuated that it might be difficult for the King to resume his ailthoril upen his recovery, unless these restruaions were imposed. He could see no room for such an insinuation. The King would haver only so appeal to Parliament, and. in the honour and intevity ad the two Houses, he would have full security for the resumption of his 'power upon his perfect recoviery. As to the restric tions respelling the grouting of Peerages, he saw Lib . just foundation for sham. It was a restriction which never has been inipesed upon any Regency. Where was the example of any Well testrictiuos and limitations having been laid on any Regency ? Have not all the pre:og itives of !Inuit) , been given to Regencies where there were Councils attached to them, even in the case of minors, and shill these prerogatives be ref need to the Prince' of 'Wales, in the full mamrity of age and vi'vor Of understated ing Ha should like to bear of any one iustauce in which such restrictions haJ been propti.ied nod admitted. Hears have been varied of dittn.totiei arising to the return of his :Majesty to the lull exer cise of his Royal authority. lo what quarter could ( such a difficulty arise ? Could it for a m om en t b e supposed that such a difficulty could arise from any undue influence created in their Lordships' House ? It was impossible that any such number of Peers could be made as to overpowe- 11l that House the attachment of their L rdships to the person of the gbvereign on the Throne. He might safely sa'y that no mail would resent and resist such a wee.' sure more resolutely ilcsu he would Wiwi:di, or no man could more sincerely rejoice to see his Majesty folly restored to the complete enjoyment of all his prerogatives. Any other suppostouti would bc dis gratce►ut to the House. Thu Lean CHANCaLLOR rose 'to follow the ex ample of a Noble Viscoent (Sidsnouth), and to ex press the opinion he entertained on the preient oc casion, and to discharge the .duty which it imposed Upon him. Much bad been said iespecting the pre cedent of 1788. Let vi list might be thought of it he, for one, would ever coosider it as a complete precedent, as to 'the manner in which it regtllated the powers of the Regent. It was a prec e dent, countenanced by the first authorities of that day, by men of the highest charabler, who were now no more. There were, no doubt great namt;s en both sides of the question, What his opinion was, be should not hesitate to declare. It was his Settled judgment that, on general principles, there Should be no Regency without limitations, restrictions, and condition s . ..Tee ( i 'd'uareitioton saw' them in no other light, and it there s tei'e alway imposed on them te s.rietiOns, limitations, and conditions. This it was not difficult to prove. If we looked .to the 24th of Ge 6.11. µo should see . that it provided certain re strictions tor no Jetta a period than six years. Again, if we look to the 4th of get). 111. we shall there find that it provided restrictions fur 12 years. These were guides which were not lost sight of in 1788, The title of Repot was unknown to the Common Law, and lie tutu the anthority of Lord Thorlow to say, that a ltegeta Was a Mete creature of statute, and his powers are given .to him by statute ; but all the prerogativei remained with the King. He would now examine whit had been ernicaLu by the statute to which he had referred. It first named ten Counsellors, not of advice, but of contruol ; and it was material to see how they were appointed.; the King wis.entitled to name four, nor were they then merely, restrained from creating . Peers ; but even certain officers were 'named whom they could not change, the Lord'Clunicellorc the Commissioners of the Navy, the Master of the Rolls, 'eca:. and tour or five of them were sufficient to put their negal It aan the creating of Peers. Nor warm there any, remedy against their iuterference, except an appeal to the two Houses of 'Parliament. If' all these precedents were consulted, it would be seen that by none of them were such powers granted as are now proposed. : No ; not the fortieth part of Ike». For giving Ina opinou on this matter, he should offer no apo logy. He was the subject of at King who hen ,self was limited, and would say that Pa:No:tit must keep the bond of their iiile4iame to their Sovereign, and see that the power' entrusted tit his . mono should be placed whirr proper limitations, restrictions, and conditions. Thus it would be pm vided, that his Majesty, when happily tesiored to health, might resume his luminous , unenpatied ; allies wise, it I the. _mg wntild not enjoy What is allowed to the Meanest of his subjettai. Where Were those who were so loud in their assettiocs that the influence and power at the Crown should be di minished ? Are they prepar,d to say, that in the King it etltutild bb that ice the King it should be without polaroid, and that even at a time when is c koked fur the King's recoveiy, and therefore to his resumption of his royal tioes ? If the proposed restrittiona were wise in 1788, :as he contended they were, why should not they also be thought wise and.salufary iu ffil Lord St , ENCtitt protested against the nutlet:owl and improper protkittion that had s.tken place. 'The Noble and Learned Lord had pioceeded on a com plete fallacy from the beginning, to the end of his speech. The power of creetiog Peers bad always existed sutnewitete or other. It was inseparable Irvin the royal authority ; and the royal authority was that which the two Houses had declared it was their right acid duty to supply. So it Was also with a ho,power ut granting places and pensioni; and tilthough he was one of those who voted for the abolition ot the power of granting Wanes In reversion, yet howould not take the opportunity, when the ;Mtwara was cawing under,the visitation of Providence, to strip the Crown of its brightest ornament. ; , t SeVertil Peers i WI% togetuer, a uebuitory cotiverd tatltin took place with respe6 'to the right of priori. ty ; ,which was at length determined by the Chair man of the Committee (Lord Walsingham) in fa vour of Lord SELKItiK, who argued gainst the reti:ric., 'lons. • Lord CLANCAUTY Contended for the necessitY of the'restriaion3. The Duke of ,NORPOLK supported the Resolution re..petting the flouseholtt, as it -cattle 4rotti the of COIIIIIIO . , ft; Lord HOLLAND opposed the re4triaions on the broad princifile that the Monarchy of England might not to he deprived .of its prerogatives without the consent 'of the person in whom that Monarchy was vested. ,The - reason whiCh induced the Nobie and Learned Lord opposite to support t he rest rict ioua, was therefore the reason which induced - him to oppose them,, namely,, the temporary 'suspension of .the powers of the Clown. Such a principle as that as serted by the Noble and Learned Lord would be most fatal, not only to the Monarchy of Great B r i t ai n . but to any limited Monarchy whatever. The two Houses first declared that it was their right and duty to supply the aeficiency in the executive authority, and it was' then proposed to them. to supply it not • fully bat by scraps, shreds, and patches. The No ble and Learned Lord sippealed to the feelings oldie House. He trusted that he had as. muc(i just feel ing as any man. He knew also that those feelings which he cherished the most strongly, he was the ninSt repugnant to mese. He w ould tut, there-, fore allow any urn to tell hitn that he did not feel because he was not loud in his expreision of feeling. This parade of f cling, however,.did -not proceed with a good grace from those who had not allowed even the clearest ties .Df his Majesty t o , apprp .6 his penult. Much ittlesa had been laid no the speech (tom the Throne in 178 n, and it had beeh slid that it implied ihe Royal apps ouat ion cif tree preceding measures. In tiro, however, it was the' speech of the Ministers, and what authority was that 3 I He put it to their Lordalt ps, whether there Was not a great diGreeee between the puhlie Senti• -anent on the measures adopted in 1788, and the public sentiment' on the measures now prope.ed?. Even sin, e he had entered the Roirse, he had re ceived several , petitions, which he was desired to present, against the I.ending proceeding.' Mini.ters attempted to justity their conduct bra reference to the precedent of 1788, in a way which r. aniud~d bi t " o f an anecdote he had somewhere met with. A school-boy went up with a Greek exercise t o Dr. Bentley.. The Doctor having remarked in it a soli• cism, pointedit out to the lad, who jusrlfi• d hiur selt by appealing to the authoitty of hodar. " Aye," said the Learned 1)oeior, " Pindar was a bold fel low, and you, are an impudent fellow." Lord Haenoway conceived that those who vot ed Irons principle against the restrlOions proposed muse vote against all restrictions whatever. He ad. mitted that the two Houses bad resolved that it was their right and dirty to, supply the deficiency in the Executive Government, but that was qualified with the accompanying, declaration that it was their duty to supply it in such ar manner as the exigency of the cue might -require. It appeared to him ,to he distinctly ,established by a reference to precedents that a Regent had never been itivebted with power equal to that' of the Crown. All the autho rity that the two. Houses possessed, originated in the necessity of the case. Their acts tnust be limit ed by that necessity, and What necessii) wea there for allowing the Regent to create Peers ? Would any one assert that such a power could be necessary to the regent to enable him to carry on a legitimate G•tvernment for a twelvemonth Adverting to the resolution respecting the,household, he deprecated the division therein prescribed, - and contended that it would be scarcely possible satistatiorily to separate the part which was to remain with the King. Lord Ger:um-La remonstrated on the manner in which the opinions that he had formerly advanced in 'mother place had been exaggerated with an in. lention by to means obscure, It would have been more manly if those who had intended to embers rails hint by this manoeuvre had not covered their design with- then language of praise. Embarrassed, however, be was not. He was ever of opinion (al though this opinion bad no application in the pie. sent instance), that to purchase consistency ~at the expellee of integrity, could be gratifying' to those alone, who preferred the opinion of others to the approbation ot.their own hearts. Far be from him such a wish. The only question which, in his pubs lic life, he ever proposed to himself Was, "What is the interest of my country, and consequently what is my duty ?" Never eould he be deterred by any fear of being charged with inconsistency, from deli. veriog his free and unbiassed opinion. 11 lie saw tenon to abandon former sentiments, he would not 'scruple to avow, that more mature deliberation, and it might' be more extensive knowledge, had taught him that they were errorieous. To say that airy bire racist be bound by his first judgment, was to say that the lite`of thntman must be spent iti vain, and that from the opinion, which he expressed on the clay of his entrance on a public career he mu=st never' subsequently dei.ine. Such had not-been the prin ciples of the best legislator's of this and other coons trrei' . l\do individual whole memory vial c.kai to the world, of whom it might not be shown that -he had the manliness, at some period or other of his life, to avow (wilier error. The history of the- last fifty years would atlord sufficient examples at ; this tact, Fie trusted, however, that no one would suppose he said all this as applicable to the circumstances in which he found himself placed ;' for he declared that he:Adhered strictly to all the priticiplea which he had asset ted'on the satne.subjett in 17813. • Ott ono part of the subject, and that the most important, he had already deelatedhis opinion .both in that House and in another manner, which bad become public. He had declared (with ail due deference to the re ,. speclable authorities by u hich be had been opposed) that he had not the least doubt that on the two Houses of Parliament devolved the necessity of pro- ' viding for all the defiCiencies which tusk on— cur in the legislative and executive authority. In whet manner the. Litter was to be supplied was a grave considcration, but he was convinced that the power in the two Houses of supplying-it could be suited only by the necessity. On the principle of necessity constituting and limiting this power in the two Houses, he maintained that the power of striking the Regent resided in them. Had a law. existee on the subject, no such poWer would have devolved; but lista° such law existed, the power re- r lvertod,to the people of the land, represented by ; t egal represent a ti ves o f t h ose estates ado - he people were divided. He could imagine nnot occasions on which it must generally be admit*. that provision ought to be made to meet an 61 i gency by no means co-extensive Vi ills ate i t° l 3 Ant badly. He thought proper to state it as a O tt : , of principle, that he had no doubt of the p o wer 01' 1 : nil the'audiority of the Regent residingin thel Houses.contrary principle would be. ariah• ol °' solecism. A gre.tt deal too much had, in his opint been said in another place, in the course of 1 14 ", /d bates.on this subject; about Perstinal character. thoinzlit it a melancholy proof of. the silu'alion of this country. He should have hoped that it well; have been possiule to refer to the opinions of great aiteo who differed from one another in l~Ha With imputing to any one improper inotives. was happy to think that tic intemperance sort had taken place among their Lordships. " 1 , each oe ch of the great (n e n wh o w e r e in direct ' ,l n , don to each other at the period which he had !, ,4 tioite.l, might be s.tid, as BO in i :,broke said 0; Mike of IVlarlbOtough, when ;erne of e ! was nail; itr. his Grace, °' he had his failiegs, .but he sd great a man•that I forger Ls hat they 'wele• would, therefore, proceed to state his soitimerted4 the subject, without asking wlietner`they icO r with those of this great man, i n t i m es of the g w ro est party heat that h e h a d e vet witnessed, or) trusted, that on any occasion he ever s hoillii,sNitr'',' o He would presently sh e , w , th a t th e vety Peri 4 ""' ° Jet t brought forward the pre s e n t Rtesirlutiuti, as loati Oa the precedent of 1788, f e lt th at that precedent so inapplicable to the preient time, that, in Itatu t l the Resolutions, they departed from the esic` .o ", principle of that p‘rect.detit ; and for 10 1 A'C'S 11;1 son he should oppose one of the Resolutions. • he should not r est oil t hi s aut h or i t y ; he would ,i). • dllt' peal to the c o mmon - sense o f . t h e ir 1401 1i whether the circu m st ances ' o f t h e -.Presetit slut were not' essentially 'd:fferent from those ut 17 0 A Noble Visc o unt hail taken a narrow view 0 1 ► io difference whe n be, s p o k e on ly ot the eh:1 0 0 1 % o amount of our establi s hm ents and of our tel l o He would push that consideration further, a" ,„ what rendered t h at i ncr e ase d esta bli s h re stot 11 7 10 sari? He would ask; if there was an ifulivid e , 3 1 10 the countty wh o , by posibtlity, could be 011'4 the Councils of the' Regent, who would 11 01 be py to change th e present establishment for 11 1 : : ' 110 blishment in 1788, if he could also get other circuinstatices in which the present petit)* 1 , 4 fered from that p er i o d ?. H ow t h en could he I, el ub o , ' accused of incon s i stency , if un d er different stances he entertained different opinions ? nion with respect to the restrictions must depenm ,e j their natur e an d expe di ency. There was a ;lee t restriettnn for which, in the shape in which n o on the table, no earthly consideration would 111 him toVote ; he meant the resolution relative creation of Peers. He allowed the delegated l' i ° lo l ought to be marked as delegated. He A•o3s isrt considering th a t Royal authority was the pro1) - to a of the person by • whom it was held. It W . lll ill property of . 00 people from whom it utl/;'",13,4„ emanated, and for whose benefit it was —lt, would scarcely be necessary for hint R! o a that if personal confidence we re t h e ' ground which the present question was to b o degree of confidence could, in his opinion ba y ' s great to place in the Illustrious Indisidual to tv 'ip Ibis high and exalted trust was to be contideu' l i t et , he repeated that there ought. wbe a marked A ence between original and delegated author,itY' great mistake had arisen witl3 respet to the , den in 1788, on the restriction upon the ce de ' of Peers; and the Noble Lords who re•l e of much on that precedent now brought fur- 00'; , the Resolution 'altered in that very pon' r ,„- e' which the divisions took place i n t h e 1- i °- e namely, whether there should be a lituieti°,: ol . the restridiods or not. 'By th e i r own conte's:4 therefore, they, admitted t h at t h e circuinsle''ce-.11 the two periods were materially different. H i s ao' would much depend on the time for which thtl 110 , stridion was to b e i m p ose d . B ut there was 3111)",i, more important d ev i at i on i n t h e resolution, rc'eede • ing the peerage, front the precedent of 1710 1 ; ° lid nation of th e m o st d estructive anti fatal iisture .. , was the excepti on i n f avour of 'naval and . 101 ' 1 . 7 1 0 , 1 , men, Now. he held it as a first' principle ut th e- of stitution, that the honours of th e St at e were or" 0 , all ; and that there was nth peasant, however 11. : e i ,ct who . might no t' asp i re to rank one clay , however, tl a path to honour watt cit Ottiscr~ a But pride, which every Esiglishman felt ill ~ , seised, was suppressed, aytl the most fatal t ie . pies were intrycleced. Wer e their Lordships Pi r o pared thus t o ei rcutuscr ib e the path to honour • ? they prep a red t h us to stigmatize thentselve 9 tgel tablish nit invidious distitiction ? Were they Pr v i i c itil + - to ,declare that those who held .Peeragra services, either as legal men or as statesmen' : i raf.• them by a title, less worthy-than that of , and eminent persons who had been justly guished fur their naval a n d a c hievvill c 'j aP He was sure-th at h e wenid not be undefs'.°Qooo; deprs..ciatiog thcem7rlts of ;he heroes try., With the utmostorespect for them, tha out ,ready to say that tueir professions 0 1- . 4. / `most tiotioutuble and the most `Advantatto b- 1 He held in hip estimation the services O,II: L 4V' tar- Duke of Marlborough anti Earl Nelson too". ' ar rti 53t:e:isittbityteiirltellatult)ailltahaeHr. dostfu:ke.sts'utili?vnuoriouuYt:atibblielee.6l7lresi.ontQltt!,lP'cir:'3l,tP'l-r,r's: ciple proposed lobe. introdocett was dung!: tj , l l l 'pil,‘ vvlty to which be would never consent. be led ildwevcr, that the power of creating the power ut a nn unit; Places and pensions o'er. e 41,05e11 harts eat the Royal Authority opt v►l'wi , 1 , 1 was temporal, and le,' powers perrhancill. Upon. the whole, his objection A ta biat twuosroarsn e of re s a h l e rii. r t e i s o u n i , 6 :•w iu t i l l er w e 4 a ls s : I t i t i nit.. i s i s le i Y ha P t it r .ti e lo6l4r7 ' lli :r j ; i s w wo : l ) us ic t[ l l}o : 4° :: ltto i rl : l a Yu d vsquigdali i ii t 'e u d Til ni : ' j m u ' s ti t ".: pl a i t t l :c l : l P 4l. v l : ll . lll ;l til l t ; tl to the regulajtrioulti they withdrew it tho odious , cn i- It' Ii property, it met with his conctirreticc , alluded he could teal ;t to the Resolution r c t i ol ‘e to the - /10 0°- ,el; ion t, jute: for o p f e t r • ; ,. hesitated not to say. that be would give 3 deb'