The Sun. — London, England, 1804-03-30 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS. ""1 - HITRSDAY, MARCH 29. Mr. STEELE reported at the Bar, that His Ma jesty had been waited upon with the Address of that Ftriifsi 'of yesterday,' it - hich: His Majesty was pleased to receive very graciously. JOHN NEWPORT presented a Petition on be half of John Ogle, Etq. complaining that JAI\ Nl:inners, Esq. had been unduly returned at the last eltction for the Borough of Ilchester ; that by un due means a colourable majority had been obtained for the said John Manners, to the prejudice of the Petitioner, who had the Majority of legal votes, &c. , --Ordered to be . Taken into consideration on Tues. day the toth of April next. The SECRETARI; at WAR brought up the Report of the-Committee of Supply, which contained a Re solution upon the 'subjet of the Civil List, which was read and agreed to, and, the Bill ordered to be printed. Mr. SHE•RIDAN caited the attention of the House to the sukjeCt of the Election for the Borough of Liskeard. He delivered in a Declaration on be half of Thomas Sheridan, Esq. and signed by him in the form required in such case by the At of Par_ liainent, signifying that he did not insist on the right of Return made on his behalf for the above .11:)rOugli, and chit he should not prosecute the Claim under such Return, &c. _ _ -The - natural - result of which was, that thirty days tvere to be given to the Eleaors of this Borough to piepare, if they shall be so advised, to support the Re:urn which the Candidate declined, he relying on the question of Merits upon the Eleaion. It was here doubted - whether the . Case of Mr. Thomas Sheriktan, the Candidate, came within the 1)(00 ? ions of the Aa of Parliament ; and upon it a C,o - o:ersation arose, which was supported by Mr. BANKES, Mr. SWERIDAN, the SECRETARY at \VAR, 'lr. - BURROTICHS, Mr. FONSLANOUE, Mr. Ti ER_ NEy, &c. which ended in an ildjournmenrof the lltbate until this day sennight, upon the Motion of Mr. BAlk:4Es. IRISH MILITIA. - 7'& SECRETARY brmight . up the Bill for enyiwering His Majesty fora time, and to an extent to be limited, to accept of the services of Such,part_of the Militia of Ireland as may volunta rily offer themselves to serve and to be:employed in Great flritain.—Read a .. first time, ordered to be read a second time to.morrow sennight, and to be rioted, LOYALTY LOAN. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER .observed there was in the Order Book a Notice, signifying the intention of an Hon. Member of that lioase to bring forward a subjeet which had before been stated to him,; it was a Motion intended to be made ,on behalf of the Holders of a Loan, usually denominated the Loyalty Loan.—He must be par *dbi::ll for saying; that - as he did not hear, : Irenow ..read; of this Notice with a considerable degree of surprize,• because he did not understand it to be the of - Gentlemem . coocerried on that subjea to bring irforwa-rd in that- shape, although it had been de.. -Sired' that virile decision should take place upon it frev ion to the sth of . April, The matter was of importance, and after having considered the question upon the merits, to the best of his power, and having waited on the ATTORNEY and SOL,ICITOR GENE RAt. with a statement of the case, he requested their opinion upon‘ it, Their opinion was, that the Sub scribers to the Loan of 1796, were not under the letter, nor apparently within the equitable con- StraftiOn of the law made for the regulation of that su!jed, entitled to payment of their proportions at par, previous to the stir of April 1865. • The Bill for the Augmentation of the Militia of ireiand to an extent and for a time to be-limited, wds brought up, and read a first tithe. On the question for the second reading, DEM' observed, that when a Bill was brought in, in consequence of . the apprehension 'of an Invasion, it was, in his opinion, proper the Ito Use should be informed by Ministers, whether in theii - apiiiihen - sion, that event was more probable tiow than it was a month ago. The SECRETARY at WAR reminde3,the Honour -21-11e Gentleman that this was only a• Bill for pro viding fur the augmentatiorrof the Militia Force of Ireland. Mr. PENT side, it was a Bill foi providing means to replace a certain Miliniry Force in Fr.d, which was aboui to be called from thence, on a.e•spunt of the exigencies of the present war, and, therefore, his question to the Minister was perfeCtly reasonable. What -he wanted to know was, wile. titer Great Btitain was in more danger now of In. vAon than it had been a month ago ; and if it was, tynerher Ireland was not also in as great danger as Great Britain, from the same apprehension, for un less Great Britain was in greater danger now than it had been a month ago, Ministeis would not pre tend that the measure was necessary. if the dan ger was greater now to this Country than it was a Month ago, but that danger was equal to Ireland as tO this Country, then the measure would be ineffi. He was not singular in the opinion, that the disappointment would be great, indeed, unless the Militia of this Country made a similar offer to jeeland, as the Irish Militia did to come here. t . nis was a matter which required some expiana.. The SECRETARY at WAR contendeti, that the observations of the Honourable Gentleman who just spoken, had no application to the Bill now ()dere the House, which was merely a Bill for the augmentation of the Militia of. Ireland, and the Ho. not t lable Gentleman had not offered any reason why that Military Force should • not be augmented. The observations of the Honourable Gentleman seemed to have been intended to apply to another .1;t11 which had been disposed of for the present, namely, the Bill - to empower His Majesty to accept of the services of those Militias of Ireland, who Shall voluntarily offer themselves for the service of this Coontry. When that - subjea came .again for ward for discussion, it woul,d be proper to, take no. rice of the observations of the Honourable Gentle_ 4'oo iT---at . preV;nt, they were pot in scoop, c lent Mr. DENT said, that although in striEtneas this was not the Bill to which his observations were ap plicable, yet in point of commonsense, the obseri-: vations were not out of season, for . this Bill was part of the same system as the other Bill. -:4-The SECRETARY at WAR moved, that the Bill be read a second time to-morrow se'nnight. • Mr. IC NNAIRD objeaed to that day, on account of its being she same as that for which the former Bill stood ; and that both ought not to be discussed in one day. The SECRETARY at WAR observed, that as both the Bills were upon the same system, Gentle men on the other side of the House should not ob jed to the discussion of them, upon the same day. M►. CANNING said, that this was at least ad_ mitting that the apology made by an Honourable Gentleman (Mr. DENT), for speaking upon one of the Bills, when it was said, his observations applied to the other, was correct. • _ _ Lord FOLKESTONE said a few words, after which the Bill was ordered to be read a second time this day se'nnight. IVir.o ALC RAFT moved an Address to His Ma jesty, that he will be pleased to give direetions for laying before the House a List of the Regiments of the Irish Militia, who had made voluntary offers of their services, to be employed in any part of Great Britain during the War, specifying the date of each offer, and the number of them, &c.—Or dered. On the third reading of the Irish Militia Fami lies'Bill, Mr. CURRY took occasion to observe, for the satisfadion of Gentlemen who took an interest in this event, and in answer to the (Nation which had been taken to this measure, on account of the distance that the objeds of it were to travel to ob tain their allowpce, that there were three places to which sueh parties had an Opportunity of resort ing :--the Treasurer of the County, the Collator of the Excise, and the Collator of the Assess ments, &c. ; so that the families of the Militia of Ireland had their relief and assistance as it were at their own docir. The Bill was Olen read a third time, and passed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, I that this House do at its rising adjourn to this day ,sennight.—Ordered. Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of the Committee of :Ripply of •.yesterday, when the Com pensation was voted to my Lord Hoop., and the Officers and men under his command, for the value of the ships taken at Toulon in the last War. The Report being proposed to be read, Mr. CALCRAFT said, that if a proposition which he had to make should be acceded to, he should have nothing; further to say at present upon the subjeff, which proposition was, that this matter should stand over for the Recess. If that was not asserited to, he must make some observations on the case ; and not finding his request was likely to be granted, he proceeded to make his observations, which consisted chiefly of those ,which had been already hinted at, that of the Minister's having first brought the matter forward as a question of - eight, and then as a question of liberality. The first had been given up; as to the second, it was a 'captivating word, and it was difficult to resist it at any time, but More especially when so meritorious and so favourite a class of persons were the objects of it, as the Officers and men of our Navy ; but Captivating as these topics were to the mind, yet under all the circumstances of the present time, he thought the House would not be justified in loading their Constituents with this charge, without at least more time to Consider it than the House had hither to been able to appropriate for that purpose. Hav ing expatiated upon these and other topics for a con siderable time, he moved that this report be taken into consideration this day se'nnight. The question being put, Sir JOHN NICHOLLS said, that after the dis cussion of yesterday, he should have hoped it would have been thought 'unnecessary for him to have troubled the House. He agreed that Members of the House ought to be careful about voting the mo ney of their Constituents, and particularly in such times as thd present ; but he must also say, that the House owed a duty to the Public not to with hold money frotn those who claimed it on just occa sions, and there never was a more just occasion than the present one. He should not enter into the detail of this Case, nor should he argue at length the qdestion, whether this was an application to the justice or to the liberality of the House ? If it were necessary to contend that this was a matter of right, on behalf of the gallant Officers and Men en gaged in that enterprize, he should feel very little difficulty in supporting that right.---[Here he stated the circumstances of the case, of the taking the fleet at Toulon, and of its being done by my Lord Hood, and the Officers and Men under his com mand, in trust for the House of Bourbon, then the objet of restoration to the Throne of France, or until Peace should he made.] Now Peace had been made, and in that Peace tins Country had acknow ledged a Government which excluded the restora. tion of the &urban Family horn the Throne of France, and there was an end of one part of the Condition on which these Ships were taken, name. ly, that they were taken in trust for the Bourbon Family ; the other part of the Condition came' into full force, namely, that they should be the property of the British upon the conclusion of Peace. So that if upon this the Captors had sued for the con. demnation of these Ships, they must have been con_ denined as lawful prize to the Captors. The Pub. lic had had the use of these .Ships for many years ; the Public had no claim whatever to them ; as to the Public and the Captors, there could be no question whatever ; there might be between the Crown and the Captors. The Crown had relinquished its right, and now the question was neither more nor - less than this—whether the Public should not pay for that of which they had had the benefit ? A question too plain to admitof a doubt; and he thought there was a great deal of mcdesty on the part of the Claimants in this case, that they did not ask for In terest, &c. although the Public had had the use of these Ships for ten years ; nothing was now asked but their original value. He should indeed wonder if such an application as this was unsuccessful in that House. lie admired the liberality and . forbearance of the gallant Officets who were the Ca irors in this case, - but he should neither admire the liberality of the House, nor be able to say much in support of its justice, if it.did-not assent to this .application. Colonel WOOD opposed any grant of Monet, and thought that Lord Hoop ought rather to pay for the Ships he had destroyed. Mr. T. JONES thought it would be of serious consequence if it was to be understood that our Officers and Seamen, who, destroyed Ships belong_ ing to the Enemy, were to pay for them (a loud latigh). Mr. SHERIDAN said, he had read the Papers relating to this subject with considerable surprise ; but at the same time' he did not consider this an at which belonged to the charaCter of the present Ad ministration, but as one%equeathed to them as a legacy by their Predecessors. The Learned Gen tleman (Sir JOHN NICHOLLS) had compared the operation of Lord Hoot) at Toulon to the victories of Aboukir and Copenhagen ; but it never appear. ed . to him in that point of view, and he had on a former occasion opposed voting thanks to Lord Hoop upon the ground there was something dis. graceful in the transaction. It had been said that Lord HOOD sealed the destruction of the French Navy ; but six months afterwards sixteen sail of the line sailed out of Toulon harbtsur. The Learn ed Gentleman (Sir JottxHoees) had said, that the Public had no right to the Prizes; but did he mean to say, that the Public, who fitted out Fleets, had no right to the captures made by these Fleets ? The right certainly was vested in the Crown, but it must be understood to be for the benefit of the Pub lic. As to the French Ships destroyed, he believed!Sir SIDNEY SMITH did more in that way than Lord Hoop ; and he made it a subjeCt of complaint against Lord HOOD, upon a former occasion, that he had left a great number of the Ships, and a large quantity of Stores, at Toulon, undestroyed. The blame of this, however, rested with the Commander in Chief, and not with the other Officers, or the Seamen and Marines ; hut, in this case, what was to become of the distribution ? How many of the Persons employed upon that occasion were now alive ? No previous inquiry had been made upon that subject. The only Paper they had was of all others the most useful document to ground any pro ceeding upon. *lf, as the Learned Gentleman had said, Lord HOOD was entitled to the condemnation of the Ships, why not make the claim ? Upon looking at the Paper on the Table, he found there were Ships marked to the number of nine, which it was stated in a memorandum had never been brought out of Toulon. If they had never been brought out, how they could be valued as having been employed in His Majesty's service he -could not conceive. He thought there was not a sufficient justification in the Papers before the House to grant the remuneration asked for. The MASTER of the ROLLS said, that in the pradice of States, as well as the condua of Indivi: duals,' there might be demands which they were bound to comply with, although there was no posi tive law upon the subject ; they were bound to do what they ought not to abstain from doing. From the reign of Queen Ann to the present moment the Country bad never derived benefit from Captures ,without renumerating the Captors: What ground was there in this instance for their breaking in upon the uniformity of proceeding in these cases ? Lcrrd HOOD could have presteeded to cons demnation in the COUrt - of Admiralty, there 'was no occasion to come to the House, and surely it would not be contended that the House was never to be liberal except in these cases where they had no discretion. The Ships in question were part of the Enemy's force, and might have remained so if it had not been for the exertions of Lord Hoop. Lord Hoop had ulterior objects in view, and therefore abstained from exercising the stria rights of War ; it thus became a qualified sot. render, and this was an obstacle to proceeding in the Court of Admiralty ; but the prejudice to the Enemy was not less. To postpone this subject, upon the suggestion, that it the old French Mo. narchy was restored, the Ships ought to be restored to that Government, might be delaying it for ever, 'upon the mere possibility of that Government be ing re.instated ; but surely there must be a limit to such condition. All the facts relating to the capture of the Ships were notorious : all the Papers which were necessary had been laid upon the Table, and he trusted that the claim would be acceded to, 'founded as it was in justice. Mr. SHERIDAN and the MASTER of the ROLLS severally explained. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ad, mitred that eight or nine Vessels were stated to have been brought out of Toulon ; but the fart was, that these Vessels were manned with British Seamen, and carried the British Flag ; they were employed in our service in the Mediterranean during the Sum mer of 1793, and were finally destroyed by the batteries of the Enemy. The whole amount of the value of these did not exceed 7,0001. With re_ sped to the distribution of the Money, it was only intended to issue it in such proportions as claims should be made out, and whatever should remain unclaimed at the end of three years, would go to the Fund of Greenwich Hospital. He repeated that this was a claim upon the justice, of the House. He was sorry to hear the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. SHERIDAN) say, that this measure was not consistent with the character of the present Mini. sters. He wished it to be understood, that it was exclusively their own measure, and that they had no communication on the subject with their predeces sors. Mr. BANKES wished to know out of what Fund this sum must have been paid, if there •had been no application to the House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, out of the Naval Supplies of the year. Mr. JOHNSTONE contended, that Lord }-looD was not in a situation to deserve so large a remunera tion. Mr. ALEXANDER contended, that Lord HOOD was entitled to the proposed remuneration, both in Justice and equity. Mr. BURROUGHS argued strongly in favour of the Resolution ; the proceedings adverted to were part of the sys , ern of warfare, arid suiely, it was not for that reason the Noble Admiral should lose the right which attached to'him in that capacity.— On otincip:es of public justice, imicuoi,l ' the arguments of the Right Hon. and Learned aer . - tleman on the floor; it was clear in point of law , that the Prerogative attached to such cap tures as those under consideration nay, under such circumstances, the King might make a grant of them by his own authority ; but Ministers coming to Parliament as they had done, was highly deserving of approbation. .V..r,LAWRENCE argued at some length in sup- , port of the Amendment. He at first adverted to the magnitude of the sum. He asked when it was that due reward was nor given to those who merited it, in the way in which the Noble Admiral did 'He was ready to agree as to the King's right of granting, in such a case, by virtue of his prero gative ; but the case brought before Parliament, as it was, they should have some better ground to go . upon than a Report of the Privy Council. He claimed, as a Member of Parliament, that some means be given of exercising their judgment upon that which they were called upon to grant. He could refer to every case which occurred from the reign of Anne downwards. It was unnecessary to have ad' verted to the repeated votes of thanks passed br that House to the Noble Lord in question. Fl e duly appreciated his meritorious conduet on the CC' casion ; the more so, as he, in a great degree, pio ceeded upon his own responsibility. The words o ' c, the Privy Council were, that some due rewards should be given; but if Parliament were to al portion those, some means should be agora e them of judging what was proper. In this there was certainly a claim to equitable !e ar l ,: and he wished it might appear on the face of t he thing. He was averse to a general sweepi n g grant. He ohjeEted to the present mode of:- ceeding, at the same time he considered this afrai r k : e by no means a personal Ministerial question ; nein had it any concern with the late Administratl ° l; He believed it resulted from an application to t equity of the Crown, &e. as being origina lly 'grounded in no stria legal right. in The ATTORNEY GENERAL observed, th at tic such a ease, the KING, by his Prerogative, la t h e have given the Ships in the first instance t° captors ; but in consequence of the mode of P he ceeding which it was deemed proper to adopt , t / I der value thereof was proposed to be given. Y n the circumstances of this case, it was a matte r - indifference, Whether the possession was achie ved by capture or not, as it was of that nature that was not distributable under the Prize Ad, s° t hat no right vested' in the captor. He knew of no ; stance since the reign of Queen Anne, were a 1. 1 '; beral remuneration 'had not been given in suc • ,cases. In the present, a number of years, I I or 1 2 . 0 had elapsed since the event, and the KINC , in hi munificence and liberality, was pleased to make a grant of the whole. All the circumstances wets under tii e R t o h y e a i c o d n s e i c d i e s i r o a n t n that t the h e Crown, wh o 1 e a s n h d ou i l t a w granted. DcBor LAWRENCE spoke shortly in eXPlan a ; tion ; and the question bei n g loudly called- for, the same was put, on which the amendment was ne, i ) / gatived ; and the Resolution of the comm it , i tce ba Supply, that a sum not exceeding 265,35 19 ` . granted, &c. was formally ratified by the Hous e ; ri Mr. DENT notified his intention to mov e ji to Monday se'nnight, for . leaVe• to bring in 3 1 14„,is amend the Aft for raising the sum of IS o f f t he by way .of Annuity, known by the ° • Loyalty Loan. pet i t i o n The Hon. Gentleman , then presented a from certain Barley Growers in the Count,' °' coin, which was ordered to lie on the Table. r The House then,- at Eight o'clock, adjourna the Easter Recess, till this day se'nnight. Du:. Flamt►urgh 2 MAILS. ARRIVSI;"- THE SUN. SOLZM DICXRIL FALSUM AtIDAA.T ? LONDON, MARCH 30, 1804. __ol YES'T'ERDAY forenoon an Overland Dispatch " 139 received at the East India-House from the G 9sree r , r' ; , ment of Bombay, announcing the very il p F °r° r e Intelligence of the total Defeat, after a ve r f ' h e' a e anti bloody n d he I , oo u d n y de b r a D tti c e , , syn o t r: T the Combine` { Combined ta B4ltAtt ....IZ-QAti, near the Adjunty P‘iss) b Y tile d :ai vision of our Army under the command of Genera( 1 ItVELLESLEY. f 110 (1 . 1 The details respetting this sublet}, will be i.° - n in our subsequent columns. N inet y p ieces of o°4), to (3 `: were taken by our Troops. We are sorry e serve, that our loss in Officers and Men, has be great; upwards of hoo Europeans, including Ar;* tiilery and Officers, were killed and w ounded ; an A of the Natives, the loss is estimated at 90 0 . a complete list of all the names of the Officers kille je and wounded, had not yet been received, but tl 3 List which will be found in the details, is sulV s be to be accurate as far as it goes. A t the head of t i, killed, stands the name of Lieut. Col. MAxwEl' ' of the t9th Dnzoons. I t he At the date of the last accounts , Sc IND JA an BeV-AR RAJAH had descended the AdjuntY and General \VELLELEY was about to pro ceed 1. pursuit of them, beyond the Nizam's Frontier. There is also a detailed account of tho defea t General PERON by General LAKE , the Forces nr7 ; der As hona are said to have obtai ned p ossessi°ll digra and Delhi, early in September. Accounts received from Colonel Fitkacc)ng" a th e commanding in the Ptovirce of Orissa, date 18th of September, state, th at he has taken r°sos::: tieh of ;he Town of :ia.-s-gertae, ;vi, t hout oF? 1