The Sun. — London, England, 1804-06-19 00:00:00

measure ; and it is irepossible for any human being to assert, with any consisteocy, that this Force can be.daegerato, while at the same time it is by far more it a cful than th,e Milhia. Some Gentlemen had gchie back to the Bill of Rights, and some measures tha't were adapted in the reign of James the Second. P ot they seem to forget what the principle of the Lid of Rights is, which stipes, that no Standing Ataxy sliall be kept up in tine of Peace, without the con Sent of Parliament. Now, how call I be ac_ cased of violating that principle by augmenting the Starelieg Army in time of war, and with the consent of Parliament, especially when the Force proposed to he raised is to be disbanded at the close of -the War ? Seme have no objection to a- large Army during tie War, but wished that it should be dta b.toded in time of Peace.; but if no provisipo is made iitne of Peace, .how is it to be raised to the proper point upon the breaking out of war, in case of any emergency It is imfossilele ro look at the present alto Ilion of Europe without being convinced that it till be necessary for this Country to become a more Military Nation than at any former period of unr history. If the Army is disembodied in time co Peace, it is impossible to obtain a proper Foree to carry on War. Let the House. reflect what were their feelings at the beginning of the Present War, aid tken say, Whether it is not absolutely neces saty to cur security, that some means should be adopted for affording a speedy and permanent supply to the Regular Troops ? We cannot, therefore, de pend aokly on the Regular Army, but must, of ne crssity; in the present circumstances of Europe, have some force in reserve. If we are to have a large A r:ny in time of War, it is necessary that we should have a large one in time of Peace; but the force Ttu', proposed to he raised has this advantage, that • it may be disembodied in time of peace, and the People may return to their various employments. Bat, even in time of war, can the Hots. Gentleman think that the British Soldier is a mere Spartan Soldier, totally engaged in war, and devoid-of the feelings of a British Citizen ? Gentlemen, in their objections to this Bill, seem to argue as if 74,000 men were to Le raised for this Force; but is ought to be recollected, that only ib,ooo men were want ing, as the rest were either procured, or about robe procured already. It is not, certainly, expected that this Force should be raised all at once. It will, no doubt, require some lime ; but there are good grounds for confiding in the efficiency of the mea sure, which ought, at all events, to have a fair trial. As to the difficulty stated, of procuring a sufficient number of Commissioned and Noncommissioned Officers for the number of men proposed to be raised, this certainly applied with equal force to the former Plan, and, indeed, is essential to any mode of Re. cruiting to any considerable extent, for the Regular Army, and, therefore, it amounts to nothing as a particular objection to this Bill. If, as it is gene rally admitted, it is necessary to enlarge the Army, it is surely right, in the present circumstances of the Country', to begin that increase as soon as possible. Every experience under the Army of Reserve At shelved thai the present Bill was likely to be success. ftl, and attraet men to enter, when they would have obj.ttions to do so fur General Service. Being once entered they will gradually become acquainted with the military life, and will, by a natural opera tion of causes, without any kind of deception, be the more readily induced to enter into the Regular Service. Without, however, attending, in the first instance, to its effect in Recruiting the Regular Army, it will immediately have one beneficial con sequence, namely, that of setting free a portion of the Regulars nearly corresponding to the numbers raised, which are now locked up in defensive service in England, Ireland, Guernsey, and Jersey. The next consequeece will be, by a slight and natural tran sition, great numbers will enter into the Regular Army, and constantly supply its wasting numbers. That it will be successful to its objects, the example of the Army of Reserve system held out the hest ground ed hepe. 'The Plan promises to raise men more ex peditiously than any other mode we are acquainted with ; at the same time it is free, from the evil consequence of high bounty, incident to the Army of Reserve system, which induced many to desert from the Regulars to enlist in the Army of Reserve, and then to desert again for the repetition of the Bounty. This great and increasing evil, it is mani fest, will be totally correded by means of the regu lation of the present Plan, which diminishes, and . renders fixed, the Bounty both for limited and unli mited service. From the first circa of a redudion of Bounty, it is natural to exped some check in the .numbers recruited, but this circumstance will soon correct itself; and when the recolleCtion of high Bounties is worn away, the Service will-thrive as much with a diminished and fixed bounty, as it does at present with a higher and uncertain one. Be this, however, as it may, the House having already come to a resolution against high Bounties, the ex periment must be made It is obvious they have no other choice, having once made up their minds that high and fluctuating Bounties were to be diminished, and - rendered stationary. Against this diminution of Bounty, it is to be seen under this Ilan, what may be the inducement of limited service and local influence, the benefit of which I doubt not %yid fully counterad the evil otherwise to be appre hended from a decrease of bounty. This measure being already determined on by the House, I must take it for granted that there will he no ohjedion to this Pion on that account, but rather, on the contrary, that it will on that account meet with general appro bation, It has, however, been said,.with respect to another discrintinatiog feature of the Bill, that by striking out the bah it, I had destroyed . the only ef fectual part of my own Plan, I must, however, ask Gentlemen gravely to consider the subject a little farther before hey urge objections of that nature : whatever the Plat) was originally in my mind, the House has decidedly expressed its dissent, both to high bounties apd ballot, so that, however desirable either might he on general principles, yet with re vea to this measureohey were equally inadmissible; and therefore, though efficiency is desirable, it is only to be extracted in prorortion to the opportunity left us to make use of. With respett to recruiting the Allay, let it be reconciled, there were on'y four possible modes : The usual mode of Recriiiting for Bounty by the Uilicers of the Regular Service; Recruiting by limited tisititity tied local influence, Cs=l , hin , ed out by this Pew; 3d, Recruiting by b a n, ;Ut and c0mp . ..1:44m, now ! , ,ctierally exploded as an . Oppressive - system; and 4th, Recruiting by personal - wihout the possibility of substitutiol, a mode yet tri:re objeCtionable. In times of great emergency, this latter mode may doubtless be re sorted to, but, in grneral, it has a rigour not suited to the habits and feelings of the Country. Suppos ing, as is the case, that the first of these modes is not sufficiently produCtive, and a greater force is wanted, we must, of necessity, have recourse to the second ; the third and foUrth being, as has been shewn, of a nature not, at least in the first instance, to be resorted to. In adopting the second mode, it is also evident that the first, that, of mere simple recruiting, remains wholly unmolested, and has a concurrent operation. Under the present Plan we have all the benefit of what may he called regular recruiting; and add to that, whatever may be ob tained by the secondary mode.—lf any other Plan equally produaive, and as little objectionable, •can be suggested, I can have no possible wish but to adopt it : none such, however, has been suggested, and, perhaps, it is not presuming too far to con clude that none such can be found. According to the regulations, as laid down in the provisions of this Bill, the newly-adopted system with re spect 'to the Army of Reserve, will in no degree interfere with the higher bounties left to the Regular Service. It has been said, however, that whatever provisions the Bill may enact, in point of of ea, the regulations to prevent high boun ties will be avoided. I will ask, Gentlemen, how that evasion is likely to take place ? The inhabitants of every Parish are interested in preventing any more being given than the regulations, as they must make it good by rates : there remains, therefore, only to suppose, that a few individuals in a Parish may raise, by private subscription, a sum to be so applied. Now, neither of the'se modes were at all likely to oc cur." He then entered into a defence of several other provisions of the Plan, and very ably shewed the invalidity of the objections urged by Opposition, which he thought more stimulated by hostility to His Majesty's Ministers than any defects or errors of the system now proposed to be adopted. Whatever might have been expeaed by the sanguine imagi nation of Gentlemen, the measure, such as it was, perfeitly fulfilled every expectation that his own words on any former occasion had given ground for ; and, with respect to the general vigour on the part of Government, the want of which in the former Administration, he, among others, had noticed and condemned, one of the corredives to that inefficient system was the calling out Into actual service a large portion of the Volunteers. This, bet would inform the House, had been done : not less than 140 or iso,ooo men of this description had been on permanent duty, which made them at least as efficient as an increase of one half, or, at least, as one-third of their number would have been. This measure, in addition to the present plan for an increased and permanent establishment of Military Force, for limited and unlimited service, embraced every °Ned for the Army that he had stated as de sirabre. 'The Navy also was in other and more able hands. Without idly comparing Lord MELViLL to Lord ST. VINCENT as a Seaman, he might be allowed to say, that the former would make a far better First Lord of the Adtnitalty than the latter. Nothing in the Bill, .nothing in the state or conduit o f the Administration, was different or incon sistent with any thing he had ever said or held out. He was, however, no enemy to a fair and full dis cussion of the present Bill, which, he trusted, would help to place- it in its true and proper light, and make apparent the permanent advantages it possessed. The character and nature of the Opposition was in teresting to some,and was made entertaining byothers (Mr. SHERIDAN).—It was not surprizing this Gen den= had now come forward with some brilliant re partee, as hitherto he had said nothing upon it, and might possibly,while theywere discussing the Clauses in the Committee, have been forming the Speech with which he had that night amused the House.— Something had been said that night relative to the present Administration ; but it was strange they should be arraigned with such acrimony on their very first measure, and before its general character had taken any distindiv.e shape. This eagerness to arraign and condemn, pointed out, in pretty intelli gible terms, the object and motives by which the Opposition were aituated, and left the House and Country in no doubt as to its true charader. An. other subject had also been alluded to—the forma tion of the present Ministry. This was rather a de licate subject for him to speak on. As to one ma terial point, he need only refer to the words made use of by an Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Fox), about three months ago. That Gentleman had said, that though Parliament had a right to exer cise its judgment on the conduit of Ministers, and on just grounds to withhold its confidence from them, yet that he knew his duty well enough not to agi tate, in that House, the question of who might suc. ceed them. It was a matter which the Constitution left wholly in the choice and decision of the Crown, and in the exercise of that Prerogative he should in no case interfere. The House, lie had contended, might say, when a Minister was unfit to continue any longer to be a Servant of the Crown, but who was to succeed him, he had admitted, was the clear undisputed Prerogative of the Crown to declare. This having been his opinion, openly and unequivocahy pronounced, is it nut rather strange, that on the first appearance of that Minister, and befOre he had carried forward any one aft to characterize his Administration, the Honourable Gentleman should take measures to associate with parties to produce his Resignation, as the Opposition of this night was avowedly intended to produce ? Though the Right Hon. Gentleman had, as he expressed it, given a hint to that effea, he would frankly tell him the hint was not broad enough for him to take, lie, thought and trusted the Bill would pass with large and increasing numbers. If he should be mistaken in that opinion, he should lament it as a loss to the Public; but should only consider that circumstance as a confidential difference of opinion, and tar from containing any decisive sentiments of the House or Country concerning the character or conduct of the present Administration. He should consider it purely as a difference on a particular measure, not withstanding the vf.il and interest manifested by ;he regular confederacy of Opposition. He did not decy that it vias his wish to form an Administration oit as wide ;,ntl ex ithded a scale as po s sibl e ; h ut never did he assert that may i n dividual, be lie w h o h e t r a y, was of such cons;.qiir:oce Os 10 supersede the flee exercise of the just and Undisputed Prerogative of the Crown. His Majesty was to decide on that point with an uncontrolled choice, and was wholly at liberty to seled and leave out whom he pleased. To deny this dodrine, was in effect to destroy one of the most essential :fundamental points of our ye't Monarchical Constitution. He had been at issue upon this subject before, and his opinion remained wholly unaltered and permanently fixed. He trust. ed, in what he had said (looking at Lord TEMPLE), he had spoke sufficiently guardedly, and should not be misrepresented. It was with great regret he was obliged to differ on this subjed from those relatives for whom he had great affedion and esteem. He wished, with all possible humility, to remind them of the favourable opinions they had expressed of him not very long ago, when think;ng higher of him than he did of himself, they had called for his return to office, singly and unconditionally, and said, that circumstance alone would re-inspire them with confidence and .command their support. He hoped that nothing on his part had,since that time,forfeited their good opinion; they had frequently and publicly declared, that if His Majesty were advised to include him in his Councils, they should look on the affairs of the Country with better hope,and bestow on the Go vernment that confidence which, under different cir cumitances, they were compelled to withhold. He was much at a loss to know what could have now so much changed their opinion of him, as, when called to the office they had so urgently wished him to till, to decline that assistance and co-operation he had wished to obtain. He then defended those Mem bers of Administration who, having voted for the former Plan of Mr.ADDINGTON, now voted for this. This condott, he thought, was not inconsistent ; the former being not now to be had, they might cer. tainly think the present Plan better than nothing at all. They might also, on consideration, very fairly change their opinion. It was also known that measures of an Administration did not always imply an,individual assent of every Member of it : there was frequently an accommodation, or yielding of opinion one to another. Though he had con.. demned the general condud of the late Administra tion as weak and inefficient, yet he appealed to tile House whether he had not approved of several of their measures, and always spoke respectfully of in.. dividuals composing it. He must, however, contend, with his Rt. Hon. Friend (Mr. CANNING), that the changes introduced into the Administration were very considerable; and the condud of Mr. ADDINGTON clearly shewed that it was not identically the same. In fad, an introdudion of six Members into the Cabinet, a change of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, usually considered as the head of an Administration, the First Lord of the Admiralty, and three Secretaries of State, could not but be considerable, and totally vary -its charatter and ca pacity. Without any diminution of that personal affection and esteem he had always felt for Lord HAWKESBURY, he had, during the late Administra tion, disapproved of some things in the Foreign De parunent. The House would now judge historically of the late A , hninistration ; and some a little sanguinely indulged their imaginations prophetically with resped to another (looking at Mr. Fox), which perhaps was much farther off than they conceived. Whatever might be the result of this question, he could assure them he should take no hint of resignation, but main tain that station in which His MA J ESTY had thought proper to place him. If it was surprizing how he accorded with some of the Metnbers of the late Ad ministration, much more so was it for the Noble Lord (TEMPLE) and others, to think in unison with the associates of their new confederacy. Sincere as he was in his wishes for an extended Administration, the radical variance of associates which this question has discovered, led him to doubt whether it would have been achieved to any permanent or beneficent effect. The present Plan had been opened by him, and had obtained the support of many now in opposition to it. If the broad Administration had been formed, it was the only public measure to which the New Government were pledged ; but how the Hon. Gentleman and himself would have adjusted such radical difference of opinion upon it, he was at a loss to conceive. A union of, ele ments so discordant might have had an effect the very reverse of what was hoped and intended; and instead of producing strength of Government, would have been the certain cause of weakness. Having adverted to many other topics with great strength of argument, and obvious effect upon the HAse, at half past two o'clock in the morning he concluded an eloquent and, impressive speech of more than two hours duration, of which it is impossible to attempt to give more than a faint outline, and very imperfed conception of its transcendant merit. FOXIII r. regretted that he was obliged to rise at so late an hour (near three o'clock). He censured Mr. PITT for discussing the subject so victoriously as they had now witnessed. He knew the promptitude and eagerness of the Right Hon.. Gentleman either to repel or to attack, when-occasion required. Mr. , Fox vindicated -the sentiments which he and his Friends had avowed, respecting a broad and stable Government—a Government consisting of the most distinguished abilities of all Parties. He condemned the plan of exclusion as unfair and unconstitutional. He professed a regard for the King's Preroga. live ; but he at the same time insisted, that in the choice of His Majesty's Ministers, the Ptivi. leges of Parliament, and the Rights of the People, ought to be considered. With regard to the argu ments advanced against the present measure, and the feeble condutt of those in power, all the answer that could be obtained from the Right Hon. Gentleman, 'was,—'' Look at me !" (Mr. PITT). And, when the affairs of the Admiralty came under view, it was af firmed- that Lord ME LvILLE was a better First Lord of the Admiralty than Lord ST. VINCENT! Such an swers were frivolods in the extreme. Mr. Fox no ticed the ridicule which he experienced when talking of the supposed new Administration of himself and friends. The Right Hon. Gent. was pleased to view the last Administration historically; but he tauntingly observed, that the new Administration, of which he himself. was supposed to form a part, was viewed propheticaqy, as an event which was not . likely soon to happen. This proved the truth of what he (Mr. Fox) had often heard—that the whole of filr. FITT's vv"hes and efforts centered in one point— that is. the attainment and keeping of office ! He 1 reprtached the Right Hon. Gentlt:tnan (Mr. Pt r) 101 - saying With some triumph, that although they might get rid of the present .11;11, yet ' f " t they would not easily get rid of hill' 1-- Determined to remain in power, he had open l 3 l avowed, that he (Mr. PITT) would take no hiP' " retire! Did the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pirt) mean to say that he would not take the hint of ,titc House—would not obey the commands of Parlia ment ? If it be true, as. reported, that there was 1 certain influence. which gave hints to, and overturned the late Administration, he wiEhed that the sam e hints were repeated now, in order that the Public might derive some good from them. [We are exceedingly sorry that the great length of the ceding part of the Debate prevents our entering on of Mr. Fox's Speech. He spoke very ably, and wa s ab two hours on his legs.] the oal On the Division, the numbers were, Ayes Noes Majority for the Minister 42 The Bill was afterwards ordered to be ingrossed. Mr. PITT, while in the Lobby, intimated tha t it was his intention, after so late and so long a d is f : cussion, to proceed to the third reading c 3rI Y the afternoon ; and therefore particularly req uest e the -punctual attendance of Gentlemen. It was s.og e Bested that this Bill should be read a third ob. before they, separated ; to whi c h Mr. P ITT jeaed, as contrary to the rules of Parliament. t h e At PAST FIVE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING House adjourned. I'lAl LS. g Ft t: . o Hamburgh i ,-- PRICE OF STOCKS, THIS DAY AT TWILLVL O'CLOCK. 55i Consols - -56 i I Om. - —3 I Red. Ann. THE SUN. 801.LA1 tiUIS DICER!, PALBUM A UDSAT LONDOK, JUNE 79, 1804• was last ,--- , 4in THE firm reliance which we ,Placed the wis dom and public spirit o f the House or ~011111101 -IS , Pirr, notwithstanding all the confident assertionsi all the anxious and unprecedented struggles •Id his opponents, who had declared that he %ta u he found in a minority, had a Majority of Fort,' night happily justified fy the event. Mr. two. But, what must 'give increased 0 61f * tion to the Public, he had, the majority - of, 5 , 1 0 f arguments on his side, as well as superio r ' t ' h it numbers. The Party have now mustered all til e r; strength. They find that the Milister of the Cov ii s : and of the People, is not 16 he driven from his P e ° o by clamour, but that he is determined t o p ersev e in bringing forward measures of essential import'''. . ~ toth e i s s r e a c;U h r e i r t y sin o g i n ti l l a e rt m h i a )i t r a e l . thourrh Mr. A13.17 , 1 16 1 1*; N rd TO thinks it consistent with the At ne- Ac iples professes for his Sovereign, and with the P ll- 4 - ,„ c •a, he has always avowed, to enter into the Om' "" l e s ed and aftive opposition against iVlinicters, Yen he was unable to prevail on t wo Gerrie rn the most nearly conneded with Wm in • P ( ' int ,i t h relationship and cfficial situation , to concur ;fr. him in voting against the/ Bill last night: YoRKE and Mr. H. ADDINGToNt principles we have no doubt the most 11°n° c u r r i a did not vote with the Opposition.—Several ' e n g of Administration were absent from illness f;ti. others, the MASTER of the ROLLS and Lot(' STO N. AN over-land, Dispatch was received yes EC ii It at the India House, dated ,Bomh I w3-c .Bombay, 1,,,, 2 ot 1, in brings' the , agreeable intelligence' .hat Fe ac e ii pletely restored in India. '-- " whicli .This intedir rice ' ' c sat"' . we, have for some rime anticipated, is Ihe " I° ‘ iliac faaory, because there is every probab ili ? rs , al , ' the Peace will be of long duration, mid .e v- ,,, : s ions , pre h ension for the safety , of our immens e 1,. / .. )° i ' s P e ace .in that quarter, is completely removed .' ,' i : mar was signed- on the 2och Dfxember, al'' as naturally be suPposed , ,after such a se ries Of 17 ' 1 ' ;bc it ries, the terms ',,rtt highly favourable '`) event, Company. be We ar:7 the mor,-1 , ~ ra tified atk,khi s t he iss cause, though we had ye' rl: little clout" as t° c 1 iss ue .of the contest, ' ' & felt . o °l vet we conmss we , u t neasiness at seeing th - e . Company engage d In se' ex uneasiness ensive a War, Squadrons in the w l l: :i i ti le ian the"ernY Seas. , Colonel - Previous to the signature o f t he ,Tre3t‘ , . z t he had such power 0 ......STiI'HEN,ON lied been employed. ' - t , l3es ic g w ,‘;',hok ff , :rtress of Gyalgur, on the border o f t he Rai . oil IiERAK's Dominions. It was car ried l)y aSSati i the i 6th or tBth of December. - s and store' e' The loss on our side at , the . sier, r rsl • Ivel amounted to five European; and V 03 killed ; 59 Europeans and 5t Na tives e °g three Naves missing. wounded, a s Resij , Colonel NIALcoLm was to pro ceed Nantes to the Court of Sc I ND RAH. A t ; h b 3cl 'French. Privateer, full of men, ‘w'''' 3 " t a made nearly one hundred priz , ..s, was caP tutc s sel the Bay of Bengal, by a British 74, another ve ports being in company. Our ships keeping the ir P °l down, the Privateer mistook them for I All the ships which had been dicpatcherl fro England with treasure, had arrived safe at ;via of ndiarnen. front The General Stuart had arrived at 114:idras t):11 the 3d of January ; the Glary, Princes; Mar'' , 31 1 , Northampton had also arrived and sailed for 13" 3 i (5 , In the Court of King's Bench, yesterday, ./4ss-10 Stevens and Agilely 'were brought into C o urt, 0, receive sentence for having committed extorri°.v, in having, while in office in the East Indies, recel,s, ed a - sum of money from one of the Native Pr"cce —Mr4ustice GRos It, baV log prefaced the seniclll:;., with an appropriate speech, pronounced the i t el ' ol t ment 'of the Court, which was, that the I)efe" ' O , Stevens should pry a line of 00 0l .s and be,ifur ri “ ) t ed two years : , That Agnew should be prison refal 3 th two years ; and that both of them should the ir sum of . 50,0004 which they had gained hY ....._. _ . _ . ____.__,,.....-ps—•''''' .—r'. London: Printed by H. At‘Nil i. LA N (of 13ovv-_ i 10 , Covent-garden) _; ana .Publisbed by W ILL' Am A" .O , a t Semmes (or South IVlcitor.-4treet, Crusvenor.;vit''' ' Nu. 112, Strati-i. extjrnon. -