The Sun. — London, England, 1832-08-04 00:00:00

►~. ~,, ~'r • s - \ IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, AUGUST 3. ROYAL ASSENT. The Royal Assent was given at four o'clock to the Rus sian Dutch Loan Bill, and several others. The Commis sioners were the LORD CHANCELLOR, the Duke of RICH 310ND, and the Earl of SHAFTESBURY. At Five o'clock the Earl of SHAFTEsBuRY sat as Speaker. SEWERS BILL. This Bill went through a Committee. To be read a third time to-morrow. COAL METERS (DUBLIN) COMPENSATION BILL Went through a Committee. To be read a third time to-morrow.. AGRICULTURAL LABOURERS' EMPLOYMENT BILL Went through a Committee. To be reported to-morrow. The Duke of RICHMOND presented several petitions from places in Ireland, in favour of a mitigation of the Criminal Code. The Marquis of WESTMEATH presented similar pe titions from Roscrea, in Ireland, and Gisborough, in Yorkshire, Lord AUCKLAND presented a petition from certain Dissenters of the Baptist denomination, in favour of the new plan of education in Ireland. OFFICES IN CHANCERY BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR hiving taken his seat at a quarter-past five o'clock, his Lordship moved the second reading of the Bill for the Abolition of certain Offices of the Court of Chancery. Read a second time accordingly. The LORD CHANCELLOR moved an address to his Majesty for a return of the salaries, fees, and emoluments of the said offices. MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS. Mr. BERNAL, the SOLICITOR-GENERAL, Mr. DIXON, and others from the Commons, presented the Army Half pay Bill, Audit of Accounts (Ireland) Bill, and two private Bills, which were severally read a first time. Adjourned at Half-past Five o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, AUGUST 2. At four o'clock the SPEAKEa entered the House. Before 40 Members had arrived, the Deputy-Usher of the Black Rod summoned the House to attend in the House of Lords to hear the Royal Assent given by Commission to several Bills. The SPEAKER then left the House, and on his return, read a list of the Bills to which the Royal Assent bad been given (for which see the Lords' report.) A person from the British Museum appeared at the bar, with a return of the sums of money expended by that institution for the purchase of French books during the last three years. Mr. J. GORDON presented seven petitions from various parts of Ireland, against the Government plan of education. Mr. SHAW presented two petitions of a similar nature, and three petitions for a better observance of the Lord's Day, particularly as regarded the higher classes. Lord D. STUART presented a petition from twenty silk manufacturers, complaining of the evidence given by one of the witnesses before the Silk Committee. Mr. SPEAKER intimated that the petition was irre gular, as making a charge against the Committee, whose report had not yet been laid upon the table. If the peti tioners felt aggrieved by any evidence given before the Committee, they could have adopted another course, viz. to have applied to the Committee to have the grievance complained of rectified. Lord D. STUART then withdrew the petition. Mr. HUNT presented a petition which, he had no doubt, would excite the mirth of some Members ; it was from Miss Mary Smith, of Stanmore, in the county of York, a lady of family and fortune. She claimed a share in the repre sentation; she was unmarried, had considerable pro perty of her own, and she could see no reason why taxes should he levied upon her, while she was refused a share in the representation.—The Hon. Member read the petition, which excited great laughter.—She stated that by extend ing the right of the franchise to unmarried females, it would raise that sex from the state of degradation to which it had been lowered by the heathens, and in which they were still held by the barbarians of the opposite sex—(Loud laughter)—and it was but right that both sexes should be nearly equal in the enjoyment of all social rights and privileges.—(Laughter.) She complained that such a system of exclusion should be continued, while women were not only subject to the same laws as men, but even to be tried by judges and juries all of the opposite sex—(Laughter)—which was flagrant and cruel oppres sion. Women were allowed to possess property, to hold manorial rights, and even to confer benefices on clergy men, and the Honourable Member thought that to exclude females from inheriting the Crown would not be a bit more unreasonable than to exclude them from the repre sentation. The petition prayed the House to treat the opinions and applications of all such vile wretches as men with just scorn and contempt, and to allow unmarried wo men the privilege of the franchise. The Hon. Member, in advocating the cause of the ladies, said he had read that Mr. Canning once said he would never consent to uni versal suffrage without it included women, and he (Mr. Hunt) saw nothing unreasonable in allowing females much greater privileges than they now enjoyed. He would have no objection to a female jury, and even a female judge ; indeed he had before seen old women on the bench.— (Laughter.) Sir F. TRENCH said the Hon. Member was not aware of the awkwardness of locking up a jury composed half of males and half of unmarried females the whole night. This might,' lead to rather queer predicaments.—(Loud laughter.) Mr. HUNT said, that in the sphere of the Hon. Mem ber both males and females were up all night without any thine improper happening that he was aware of.—(Laugh ter.) The Hon. Member then moved that the petition be printed. Mr. STANLEY hoped the Hon. Member would not insist upon the petition being printed, as it was not the practice of that House to print petitions unless they con tained something personally affecting the party petitioning. Here that was not the case. Mr. HUNT was sorry that the Right Hon. Secretary who had such a name for gallantry in the county, should he so ungallant as to oppose the printing of the petition. He felt it his duty to take the sense of the House upon the subject. Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division took place, the Hon. Member withdrawing his motion for the printing of the petition. The Hon. MEmatErt then presented a petitio❑ from persons confined in I_3xlmin goal fur smuggling, praying the House to take their case into consideration. Also a petition from a person named Andrew, a printer and pub lisher, resident in London, praying for the repeal of the laws affecting conscience. Mr. SHELL presented a petition from the inhabitants of Preston, signed by 4,933 persons, praying the House to address his Majesty that lie would dismiss from his councils the Right Hon. J. E. Stanley—(Laughter)— the Chief Secretary for Ireland, in consequence of the measures he bad brought forward to compel the people of Ireland to submit to the iniquitous tithe system, to maintain an hierarchy which had been for sometime a curse to the country, and also for ' (riving Ireland a Reform Bill much more res t r i c t e d t h an t h e English one. Mr. SHAW thought the language in the petition so strong that it ought not to be re , .eived ; designating the hierarchy as a curse to the country was highly improper. Mr. STANLEY thought the language of the petition rather strong, but would not object to its being laid on the table. Mr. III:NT felt himself called upon to account to the House why the petition had not been sent to him. The fact was he was led to understand the petition had been got up by persons who at the last election had been the warmest supporters of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Mr. STANLEY denied that it had by any persons who bad voted for him. Mr. HUNT said it had been got up by none of his friends; be bad been requested to support the prayer of the petition, which he did with a great deal of pleasure, without meaning any thing personal to the Right Hon. Gentleman. He thought the House would do itself im mortal honour if it put a stop to such proceedings as had take❑ place i❑ Ireland, and put an end to measures that were now going on, as he firmly believed, if some inter position did not take place, the consequence would be a civil war. Mr. STANLEY said that there appeared to be a num ber of sheets of names that had never been attached to the petition, and he was informed that a great many pet soils had signed it under the impression that it was a equi.ition for him once more to stand for the town.— (A laugh.) Mr. SHELL, in moving that the petition be printed, would call the attention of the House to the language which had been used in petitions on the Reform Bill ; it was quite as strong as that used in this petition, and no one objected to their being printed. Mr. HUNT seconded the motion. In answer to the remarks of the Hon. Secretary for Ireland, be could as. sure him that printed copies of the petition lay with every sEeet for signatures. The electors of Preston bad too wuch respect for the words of the Hon. Gentleman; they °till remembered his declaration when be left them, and ~+:, y ' •~! \'% he might be assured they would never again send him requisition. Colonel SIBTHORPE opposed the motion. It could not be for the honour of Parliament to have such language on their Journals, for the inspection of future Parliaments. Sir F. TRENCH said be could easily explain to the Hon. Member for Louth why it was that Government had allowed the petitions on the Reform question to be printed, it was because they then encouraged agitation, and now were anxious to allay it. Sir THOMAS DENMAN did not consider it ne cessary to answer the insinuations of the Gallant Gentle man. But if the Hon. Gentleman believed those charges, so also might the petitioners believe that the hierarchy was a curse to Ireland, yet both might be wrong. How ever, it was better that such opinions should be expressed than brooded over in silence. Captain GORDON opposed the motion, and would certainly take the sense of the House upon it, if it was pressed. Mr. DIXON supported the motion. Mr. S. RICE had no hesitation in saying, that the lan guage used was very improper, but it was already on the table of the House, and made public, so he could see no reason for opposing the printing of it. Mr. SHAW said, all he contended for was, that peti tions should express their sentiments in proper and mo• derate terms. He had told the Hon. and Learned Member, with the view of a compromise, that he would not object to its lying on the table, provided there was no discussion, but he would not consent to its being printed. The ex pression of the hierarchy being a curse to the country was too violent, and he should oppose the printing of the petition. Mr. WYSE would vote for printing the petition, be cause be was of opinion tbat the sentiments of no class of people should be rejected by the House. It was a matter of history that there had been established in Ireland by the hierarchy a code of penal laws that was very injurious le the country, and therefore it was not untrue to say that that hierarchy had been the curse of Ireland. Mr. HUME asked whether it could be denied that the hierarchy of the Irish Church was a curse to that country. He took the fair meaning of the word " curse" to be " injury," and he thought the day was passed when the truth should not be spoken in that House. If the House were too squeamish, and rejected the petition, because of one or two words, it would very much narrow the door to the reception of petitions. The House then divided on the motion for printing the petition, when there appeared— For the motion - 3 O 3O Against it , 2l Majority The petition was then ordered to be printed THE DECCAN PRIZE MONEY. Mr. WARBURTON rose to present two petitions from Sir Thomas Hislop and Sir Lionel Smith, relative to their claims, upon the distribution of the Deccan Prize money, and said that he understood the Gazette of this evening► would contain a warrant for the distribution of that money, of which he believed the petitioners were entitled to about 20,0001. each. Lord ALTHORP interrupted the Hon. Member, and put it to him, that as the warrant for the distribution of the prize money was already printed in this Evening's Gazette, and as it could not be altered by what might take place to-night, whether it was necessary to bring forward the petitions so as to create what must of course result—a very long discussion. Mr, WARBURiON was understood to assent to the hint thrown out by the Noble Lord. The Speaker's Pension Bill went through a Committee, was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to morrow. The Land Tax Commissioners' Names Bill went through a Committee. Report to be received to-morrow. The Committee on the Consolidated Fund Biil was postponed till Monday. The Public Accounts Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. The Exchequer Bi1!s Bill was read a third titre, and passed. The Sugar Duties Bill was read a third time, and passed. The third reading of the Glass Duties Bill was post poned till to-morrow. The Aberdeen Colleges Bill, after some observations from Mr. DICKSON and Sir C. FORBES, was read a second time. In answer to a question from Sir C. FORGES, Mr. SPRING Rica said that the arrangement had been made with the consent both of Marischal and King's College, they being convinced that the College of Aberdeen, by the arrangement, would be greatly benefited, as they would be enabled with the money granted to them to purchase such books as were more especially wanted. Mr. lIUME said that the arrangement was a most ex cellent one, and calculated to confer great benefit on all parties.—The Bill was then ordered to be committed to morrow. SUPPLY. On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the House resolved :self into a Committee of Supply. Lord ALTHORP said the first vote on the list was one of compensation for Sir A. B. King. Before going into it he would explain to the House why it was that lie now proposed that vote, having on a former occasion opposed it. When the present Government came into office, they found that a reference had been made with regard to the office of King's printer in Ireland, it, by a vote of that House, having been abolished ; both parties appointed referees, but he (Lord Althorp) understood that the late Government did not consider themselves as bound to abide by the decision, which had led him, when he came into office, to look into the case and that was the principal reaso❑ why he bad before op posed this grant. He was afterwards informed that the Government had actually pledged themselves to abide by the decision of the arbitrators, there fore he, thinking that it would be a bad practice for a new Administration to refuse to fulfil the agreements of their predecessors, he felt himself bound also to consider himself as pledged to early the ar rangement into effect. He did propose and support the vote, although in his own mind the amount was one that ought not to be granted, but be considered it as his duty to support it now, under the circumstances. The Noble Lord concluded by proposing a vote of 2,5001. a year for the purpose of remunerating Sir A. B. King for the loss of his patent office. Mr. HUME was extremely sorry that the Noble Lord had allowed himself to be turned by urgent applications ' from the other party, as it appeared to be even against his own better judgment. If any new matter had been laid before hint on the question, it ought to be corn municated to the House before it was called upon to agree to this large grant. The circumstances of the case were, some time ago a Committee sat upon the Irish Estimates, when the whole question of Irish stationery came be fore them. Some of the charges were found to be such as ought not to be allowed, and it was thought better th;:t the stationery for Ireland should be supplied from the Head-office here. The Chairman of the Committee (Lord F. L. Gower) was desirous to take steps to see how the patent office of King's Stationer in Ireland could be abolished, whether Mr. A. B. King would take a sum of money down, or whether he would prefer an annuity. The Committee at this time thought the patent was one for life, and not revokable at the pleasure of the Treasury. Arrangements were entered into with the patentee, and the case was referred as had been stated. A change then took place in the Government, and the present Chancellor of the Exchequer took the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown, who reported that the patentee was not entitled to a farthing, therefore that Noble Lord, as the guardian of the public purse, refused to give away a sum of money for a patent which the Treasury had revoked, and in that was supported by a large majority of that House,—(Hear, hear.) Since then nothing had been laid before the House to induce him to alter his opi nion; he would, therefore, unless some new matter was furnished, move that the grant be altogether relused. Lord ALTHORP said, that it was impossible to pro duce any new matter on the question. He had changed his opinion in consequence of having learned circumstances previously unknown to him. He could not allow that his virtue was easy—(A laugh)—and if he thought he had a choice, he certainly would not propose the vote. Mr. LEADER was of opinion that Sir A. B. King's case was fair, clear, and honest, and entitled to the con sideration of the House. Mr. S. RICE said, that although patents of this kind were only granted during pleasure, still the usage was to continue them where there were no instances of misbe haviour. Sir A. B. King had purchased his patent. He (Mr. S. Rice) was a member cf the Committee of 1829, and yet felt himself justified in supporting the vote. But even the present arrangement would prove to be economi cal. In consequenc e of the revocation of the patent, a saving equal to 10,0001. a year would be effected in the supply of stationery to Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Had the facts now brought forward been known in due time to the Treasury, the vote would have been proposed last year. Sir A. DALRYMPLE considered the Chancellor o! the Exchequer's statement quite satisfactory. Mr. WARBURTON thought that the Treasury mi nutes, and the instructions to the referees, ought to have been laid before the House. Mr. S, RICE said, that the instructions and Treasury 's .` 1 minutes would be produced if called for, but they bore no relation to the point at issue. Mr. SHAW and Sir C. FORBES supported the grant. Mr. HUME wished that the grant should be postponed till Monday, when the Noble Lord might be able to pro duce the Treasury minutes on the subject. Lord ALTHORP said that there were no minutes to be produced. All the information which the Government possessed on the subject was already before the House. After a few words from Mr. CRESSET PELHAM and Colonel SIETHORPE, in support of the grant, Mr. HUNT had heard all that had been said on the subject by a former Chancellor of the Exchequer, and it had failed to convince him that the grant ought to be made. The Committee then divided, when there appeared_ For the grant 52 Against it Majority —so On our return to the Gallery, we found— CHELSEA PENSIONERS. Sir J. C. HOB HOUSE moving, that a sum of 50,0001. be granted to defray the charge for compensation and lowances to individuals in lieu of pensions, to which they were entitled as Chelsea pensioners. After a few words from Sir A. DALRYMPLE, which were not heard in the Gallery, Sir J. HOBHOUSE said Government did not encou rage pensioners to take a compensation for their pensions with a view to emigration to the colonies ; but when par ties choosing to emigrate wished to exchange their pensions for a compensation, Government took all possible care to see that justice was done to them in their contracts with those with whom they were to sail. _ . Mr. DIXON thought the measure of giving compensa tion for pensions to these poor men a questionable one. Sir F. TRENCH expressed a hope that too much en couragement would not be given to those who desired to get compensation in lieu of their pensions, as when they got the money they ran great risk of misapplying it. Sir .1. 110BHOUSE said every care and precaution had been taken by the preceding Government, as well as the present, to prevent any risk of misapplication. The com pensation was given only to those who desired to emigrate, and who had a prospect of being able to maintain them. selves in the colonies to which they might wish to go. In order to guard farther against any ri , k, it was his inten tion to apply to the Admiralty to have such parties con veyed to their destination in Government transports. The Right Hon. Baronet (in answer to a question from Mr. Hume) added, that the number of persons who had al ready received compensation in lieu of pensions was 3,928, and that the saving thus made to the public was already (as we understood) 55,0001. a ear. The motion was then agreed to, and the House having resumed, the report was ordered to be received to-morrow (this day). DISTURBANCE AT CLITHEROE. Mr. STANLEY moved the Order of the Day for re ceiving the report of the Tithes Composition (Ireland) Bill. Mr. HUME wished to take that opportunity of putting a question to the Noble Lord, on the subject of an attack made by the military on the people at Clitheroe, respect ing which he had received by express an account. That account was in the Blackburn paper, which stated that Mr. Irving having gone down to canvass the borough of Clitheroe, was received by the people there with consi derable dissatisfaction, and being, as it was said, very un• popular, his presence has created considerable excitement, which continued throughout the day. In the evening Mr. Irving returned, accompanied by about fifty dragoons and two clerical magistrates, and instead of going outside the town, as they might have done, they chose to ride through it, and amongst the people, who were still assembled, and under great excitement, some of them under the influence of liquor. Some irritating expressions were made use of, and before reading the Riot Act the troops charged in amongst the people, s-ven or eight of whom were sabred in the streets. It did not appear that any were killed, but the number he had stated were severely wounded. This account, as he had said, was contained in a Black burn paper; what he wished to know from the Noble Lord was, whether Government had any, and what ac count of the affair ? Lord ALTHORP was not in possession of the details of the circumstances to which his Hon. Friend had alluded. He bad beard that morning at the office of his Noble Friend the Secretary for the Home Department, that some disturbance had taken place at Clitheroe; that the mili tary were called in to disperse the crowd after the Riot Act had been read, and that, in doing so, some persons were wounded, but that no lives were lost. Mr. WARBURTON said, that according to an account which accompanied the Blackburn piper, it appear e d that sixteen persons were wounded, and that one man received a shot in the temple. Mr. BURGE said it was probable that the first ac counts of the affair were greatly exaggerated. At all events, the House ought not to make the matter a subject of discussion in the absence of the lion. Member (Mr. Irving) who was interested in it. Mr. HUNT said, it was extraordinary that Ministers should be without information on a matter of such im portance, which had already appeared in a newspaper, and from which it appeared that many persons had been cut down in the streets by the sabres of the military. He (Mr. Hunt) had to complain of the conduct of Mr. Ir ving's committee, who hail taken the liberty of coupling his (Mr. Hunt's) name with that of Mr. Irving, for the purpose of making that gentleman more popular. Lord ALTHORP said, the statement that the attack was made on the people before the Riot Act was read, %11a not correct. The Riot Act had been read before the mili tary had been called in. After a few words from Sir C. WETHERELL, which did not reach the Gallery, Mr. DIXON said, this was the first case of any dis. tut bance of any kind in is canvass under the Reform Bill, and he hoped it would have the effect of suggesting to those who had popular influence on the one hand, and to those who had authority on the other, to unite in their endeavour to repress any violence on both sides.—(Hear.) Mr. HUNT observed that the Noble Lord (Althorp) had said, that the Riot Act had been read before the military had charged the people. Now he hoped it would not go forth to the public, that because the Riot Act had been read, the troops were justified in at once attacking tha people. Lord ALTHORP said, nothing had fallen from him warranting the inference that he held the opinion that the people, in case of riot, were to be attacked the moment the Riot Act was read. Here the conversation ended. TITHES' COMPOSITION (IRELAND) BILL. Mr. STANLEY moved the Order of the Day for re ceiving the report of the above Bill. Sir J. BURKE wished to call the attention of the Honourable Member for Limerick to the case of Mr. Ma hon, a gentleman who formerly held a situation in the Irish Stamp Office. By the abrogation of the situation which he had held, a saving of 2,500/. a year had been effected. He hoped, if an ample provision were not made for him, that he would soon be employed in the public service, as he had been a most efficient officer. Mr. S. PICT said the Board oh Treasury perfectly re cognized the claizis of Mr. Mahon, who had a retired al lowance according to the prescribed scale. His claims were undoubtedly great; but great as those claims were, Government could not, with reference to Mr. Mahon, in troduce an arbitrary principle, which might be applied in a manner that would have the appearance of partiality. Mr. BERNAL then brought up the report of the Irish Tithe Composition Bill. Mr. LEADER had watched this Bill with the utmost anxiety, and he thought that he was perfectly justified in trying to count the House out for the purpose of de feating it, because a more iniquitous or injurious measure never was brought into Parliament. He should now, however, cease from any further opposition, as it seas useless. Mr. RUTHVEN should not farther resist the measure, as he saw it was a fruitle,s task. The amendments were then agreed to. Mr. STANLEY proposed that the Bill LI read a third time to-morrow. Mr. LEADER said, that as this, in consequence of the amendments, was nearly a new Bill, it ought to be printed before it was read a third time. A Bill which imposed a charge of 700,0001. a-year on Ireland in perpetuity, ought not to be pressed through the House with such reckless haste. Mr. STANLEY agreed that the Bill should he printed, and that the third readiug should b, postponed to Monday. REFORM BILL (IRELAND). Mr. STANLEY moved the Order of the Day for taking into consideration the Lords' amendments to the Irish Reform Bill. The Right Hon. Gentleman in call ing on the House to agree to those amendments, was very far from saying that he approv e d o f t h e whole of them. To one of them, indeed, it wool! be necessary to pro pose an amendment; but, as the alteration made by the Lords formed a separate clause, th ere would be no diffi culty in effecting that object. The amendments m ere four in number, and to two of them, be believed, no Member of that House would object. The first had re ference to the Clergy, who, it was provided, should re mister the same as 50/. freeholders. The seco n d p rov id e d that the Chairman of the county of Dublin should be permitted to register freeholders by deputy ; be allowing to such deputy a certain portion of remuneration. The third amendment had reference to the right of freeholders, who became possessed of their freeholds since the 30th of March, 1831, to qualify. It was declared by the clause, that no freeholder who did not enjoy his freehold by in- heritance, marriage, or devise, should be allowed to qualify, if he came into his freehold after the 30th March, 1831. Here their Lordships had omitted " 405.," and the effect of the clause, as it now stood, would be to disqua lify freeholders of 201. or of 501. per annum. This it would be necessary to amend, and he should therefore propose that, after the word " freehold" there should be inserted " under the annual value of 10/." To the last amendment he felt a very strong objection. That amend ment would continue in perpetuity the system of corporate freemen, which the Bill originally abrogated, confirming the right only to the children of freemen who were born previous to the passing of the Bill. The great argument in favour of this alteration was, that the rights of corporate freemen in England were not touched by the English Bill, and that the same course should be taken with respect to Ireland. Now, if they did not meddle with a right which in England was not abused, that appeared to him no reason for abstaining to take away that right with respect of Ireland, where it was' notoriously abused. He would toot, however, at this late period of the Session, oppose this amendment, though his feeling was adverse to it ; and he took that course the more especially, because twenty or thirty years must elapse before any practical effect could be produced by the original clause, seeing that the right was secured under it to the children of freemen horn before the planing of this Bill. The Right Hon. Gen tleman then moved the introduction of the words " under the yearly value of 101.," in clause A, which was agreed to. On the amendment continuing the right of freemen in corporations to vote in perpetuity, Mr. JEPHSON expressed his hostility to it. He would not, however, hazard the fate of the bill by moving for its rejection, if the Lords insisted on retaining it. Mr. RUTH VEN, though opposed to the amendment, would rather give way to the Lords than endanger the loss of the whole bill. Lord ALTHORP did not think that they would sue. ceed in their object if a conference were agreed to. Ii was, therefore, he conceived, better not to demand a con. ference. Mr. CALLAGHAN was of opinion that they ought to have a conference, in order to get rid of this amendment, which he considered to be a very grent deformity in the bill. The corporations would, by their manoeuvres, con trive totally to overpower the votes of the householders. Mr. LEFROY highly approved of the amendment. BIN S. RICE hoped, as this amendment perpetuated the right of corporate freemen to vote, that his Right Hon. Friend would take care in the next session to introduce a measure has%ing for its object the prevention of two evils, which, otherwise, would inevitably grow out of the system--first, to prevent the introduction of hono rary freemen ; and next, to provide that individuals, no matter what their political or religious opinions might be, should not be excluded from corporations if they could make out a clear right to take up their freedom. Mr. STANLEY said that the attention of the Go vernment should certainly be directed to those points, and that a measure should be introduced, if necessary, to pre vent Corporations from abusing their power in those respects. Mr. SHAW was extremely happy that the Lords had removed from the Bill that which was only an unmeaning insult to the freemen of Ireland. Sir J.BURKE thought that freemen should be abolishes altogether. Mr. HUME hoped that in the next Session a Bill would be brought in to put an end to all Corporations, and the countless abuses connected with them, and to give to the inhabitants of all cities and towns the power of electing their own Magistrates. Mr. JEPHSON said, that after the declaration of the NoDle Lord opposite, and after the declaration of the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland, that he would give his consideration to the mode of making freemen in Corpora tions, be would not, in the present thin state of the House, run the risk of losing a House by proposing the motion of which he had given notice on this subject. The amendments were then put and agreed to. On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the Lord Chan cellor's Bill, and the Civil List Payments Bill, were seve rally read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday next. CROWN COLONIES (WEST INDIA) RELIEF. Lord ALTHORP then moved the Order of the Day for a Committee of the whole House, for considering the Relief to be granted to the Crown Colonies in the West Indies. Mr. HUAIE said the Noble Lord had not yet stated what his plan was. He was not prepared to say that there was any necessity for going into Committee at all. He did not, however, object to reading the Order of the Day. The Order of the Day was then read. Lord ALTHORP said he thought it would be more convenient to make his statement in Committee; he had no objection, however, to enter into his plan then if his Hon. Friend requited it. The object of the present ap plication was to obtain from the House the means of en abling his Majesty's Ministers to carry into effect the pro mises made to the colonies which adopted the Order in Council. The Noble Lord then took a brief review of the history of that order, and the transactions connected therewith; and said that, by the plan proposed, substan tial advantages would be conferred on the colonies in ques tion; but, at the same time, no unfair advantages, in point of trade, over the other colonies. In asking for the power which his Majesty's Government sought at the hands of the House, it was not their intention to afford any relief to the colonies, unless those colonies submitted themselves to, and carried into effect the Order in Council. The question for the House was simply this—whether they would allow his Majesty's Government to fulfil their pro mises for the amelioration of the condition of the slaves in the crown colonies, or refuse them the power so to do. The ch age upon the country would not be great, and but for a limited time. The sum of 57,0001. he proposed to apply to all the colonies. He heard that the opposition intended to be brought forward was, that half the revenue of the colonies ought to be granted by this country. He felt perfectly assured that the people of England would be ready to assent to this charge, as a great step to that ame lioration of the condition of the slaves for which, they had expressed themselves so anxious ; and which, they had ad mitted in their petitions, they did not expect without some sacrifice on their parts. All further details he should re serve to the Committee, and he moved that " The Speaker do leave the Chair." Mr. HUME asked whether any of the colonies had laimed this piyment, in consequence of the promise held out to them in Lord Goderich's dispatch ? Lord ALTHORP said, that the agents of several of the colonies had made such a claim. Mr. HUNIE hoped there would be no objection to lay these applivatioas before the House. He could not agree to vote such a sum of money in the absence of sufficient information. Lord HOWICK said that no documents could be laid before the House on that occasion, because there were no recognized agents for the Crown Colonies. Mr. BURGE said that the documents, such as they were, might be laid before the House. He knew from the persons representing the opinions of Demerara and Berbice, that no application had been made from those colonies. Laid ALTHORP said, that it would appear from the observations of his Hon. Friend, as, though he thought that such a promise was made, there was no occasion to perform it till the party for whom it was made applied for its performance. Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS complained of the manner in which the question was brought forward. The Noble Lord had delayed giving any explanation of his plan till just at the conclusion of the Session, and now they were called upon to vote money without having the opportunity of discussing the propriety of that Order in Cornell, which was to many exceedingly objectionable, and which the present grant would in effect sanction. Mr. MARRYATT read a letter he had received from Trinidad, which showed that the Orders in Council had not proved so injurious there as elsewhere. The slaves would do less work, but the reduction in the duties would make a mends for that. The Crown Colonies were,"-how ever, undoubtedly entitled to the fulfilment of th e pronii,es of the Government. Mr. COUR FENAY could not enter into the discus sion of a question of such vast importance as this m House of Commons of not more than 40 Members, and on the 3d of August. Sir A. DALRYMPLE thought that the House could not agree to the present proposition of the Government without pledging themselves to agree in the propriety of t h e Orders in Council. Lord HOWICK defended the Orders in Council, and said, that the colonies were not to be punished because they proved disobedient, but relieved when they removed the only obstacle that offered to their demands being granted. Lord SANDON agreed with the Right Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Courtenav) that this was a most improper time to agitate the question, and particularly when the Go vernment had admitted that the Orders in Council should receive some modification. The question before them was one entirely new. It bad come on them within the last three or four days, and he in common with many others had no opportunity of consulting his constituents. Dr. LUSHINGTON was 'ouch surprised to hear Gen tlemen connected with the West Indies opposing a vote which was expressly insended for their relief. He denied that he entertained any hostility towards the West India Colonies. On the contrary, he wished them that pros perity which, he was persuaded, they could not enjoy until slavery had ceased to exist. Mr. BURGE observed that the Colonies were opposed to the plan of amelioration projected by his Majesty's Go vernment, not because they were hostile to amelioration, but, on the contrary, because they did not believe that that plan would produce the amelioration ascribed to it. The Hon. Member recapitulated the course which his Ma jesty's Ministers had pursued on this subject. Six months ago the opposition to the Sugar Duties, which opposition, if persevered in, would have been effectual, had been with drawn on the promise of Government th it they would bring forward a plan for the relief of the Colonies; and now they brought in a plan based on the Orders in Council, of which the Colonies disapproved, and involving in it an approbation on the part of the House of Com mons of those Orders; although no inquiry had been made by the House of Commons into to their merits, and although the Report of the Committee on the subject had not been received. He wished the Noble Lord opposite had adopted the manly course on the subject which had been pursued by the Right Hon. Chief Secretary for Ire land, who, in his address to the electors of a place for which he was a candidate, stated, that although he wis desirous of emancipating the slaves in the West India Colo nies, he was not desirous of emancipating then► at a time, or in a manner that would involve the destruction of the planters. He (Mr. Burge) confessed the surprise with which he had heard it asserted that the Colonial Legisla. tures were not the fit bodies to be entrusted with the re gulation of society in the Colonies in which they sat; and he was the more surprised at this, when he recollected how strongly the Noble and Learned Lord who was at pre sent at the head of the Legal Administration in this coon try, had formerly deprecated any attempt on the part of the House of Commons to convert itself into a Legislature for the regulation of the internal affairs of the colonies. He wished to know how it was to be ascertained that the law was in full operation in Trinidad, or in any of the Crown Colonies. Where, too, were the protests which had been made on the subject (ruin the other colonies? He believed that they were not on the Table ; or if they were, that it was only within the last two or three days. It was only within that short time that the intentions of his Majesty's Government had been announced. Yet, at such a period of the Session, when it was so difficult to keep forty Mein • hers together, his Majesty's Government called upon the House to express their approbation of a plan of which they knew nothing, and which had been decidedly objected to by all persons of local knowledge, and by the colonies themselves. The House were called upon blindly to sur render their judgment to the Noble Lord, the Under Se cretary for the Colonial Department. For himself, he was sorry to say that he had not seen anything either in the conduct or in the tone of that Noble Lord which would justify him in reposing any confidence in him. Mr. HUME characterized the details of the Orders in Council in question as a mass of absurdity. They showed how incapable men in Downing-street were of regulating the internal affairs of distant colonies. No sooner was one Order issued than it was suspended or counteracted by another. Such, indeed, was the system of our Colo. Dial Administration, that it would be a miracle if affairs were well managed. He confessed the surprise with whicli lie had heard the Hon. Member for Sandwich ; and it certainly appeared to him not to be fair and candid for an Hon. Member to affix his hand and seal to a protest one day, and then come down the next and contradict the opi nions he had avowed. He strongly objected to the present mode of endeavouring to obtain the indirect sanction of the House of Commons to Orders in Council, into the merits of which they had made no inquiry. The proposed vote was contrary to all practice, experience, and principle. What could be more unjustifiable than on one of the last nights of a Session to come down and propose a grant of 57,000/, without having laid any grounds for it ? There was no proof that the Order in question had been carried into effect in Trinidad. If he were to judge from the Newspapers, be should say not. He would not believe it unless he saw documents on the table to prove it. He would be wil ling to vote almost any sum of money for the abolition of slavery, but he most strongly protested against granting money by driblets, which could have no other effect ex cept that of creating annoyance, and promoting a state of warfare in the colonies. He hoped the Noble Lord might be yet induced to postpone his motion, and he was led to this hope from his letter of the 13th of May. As to the Order in Council, he could only designate it as ri liculous in the extreme. The Noble Lord provided that the slaves should work for a less number of hours than the workmen in any English factory, that they should be better fed than any of his Majesty's soldiers, and better dressed in many instances than the planters themselves. They were to have hats and shoes, and razors, and leather breeches—(Laughter) —no, not leather breeches, but he had really expected to find them in the list ; for he remem bered a story, told by Sir Wm. Jones, of two Judges, who seemed to entertain the same rational and kindly feelings towards the slaves with the Noble Viscount. The two Judges, on landing in India, were, as usual, carried ashore by men whose only covering was a cloth wrapped round the middle. In fact, any other and more cumbrous style of dress would have been only an inconvenience to them. But the Learned Judges were greatly shocked at their deplor able condition, and scandalized at their unfashionable de gree of nudity, and one exclaimed to the other, as they were carried forward, " Well, brother, if you and I can only succeed in getting the laws put properly in force, all these poor men shall have leather breeches."—(Loud laughter.) Then it was provided that every slave was to have a razor each year—a razor every year !—Why, Sir, exclaimed the Hon. Gentleman, I have the razors I bought in 1795 yet.—(Laughter.) In short he would protest against the Order in Council, as injurious alike to the interest of master and slave—of the colony and of the mother country.—(Hear, hear.) The inefficiency of the Colonial Department was notorious.—(Hear, bear.) An impracticable Order was first published—then came their letters altering and amending it, and all having with the Governors the effect of Orders in Council. This was ridiculous, and yet not more so than their conduct with respect to the financial affairs of the colonies. There was Trinidad ; the expenditure amounted to 37,0001. a year; although the Governor had said, that if the colony were suffered to manage its own affairs this expense might he reduced one-half, and the difference saved to the public. In conclu,ion, he protested against the grant in conse quence of the evasions of the Government, and their not having given sufficient notice, and in consequence of his belief that the payment would not produce the effect in tended, but would lead only to the like useless extrava gance hereafter.—(Cheers.) Mr. MARRYATT said, that many of the most objec tionable clauses in the order in council were not compul sory ; and that in Trinidad, where it was enforced, it had worked well. He considered that the opposition to in was unfortunate, and if the colonies disapproved of his conduct, he would be quite ready to resign his honorary office of agent. Mr. BURGE said, his Honourable Friend bad now expressed those sentiments for the first time. Lord HOWICK observed, that the last and most vio lent protest against the order in council was not signed by his Hon. Friend. Lord ALTHORP said, that voting for this grant could not be construed into an approbation of all the details of the order in council. The case was simply this— te n e t had been promised to those colonies which would adopt the order in council ; that relief should be afforded them. They came to Parliament to enable them to perform that promise. It was true, the order was not acted upon every where ; but in cases where it was not acted on no money would be paid. They could not, however, without the sanction of Parliament on the present occasion, have the means of keeping their promise in any cases He denied that the letters alluded to were modifications of the order in council. They only went to enforce one of its provi sions. He gave his Hon. Friend all credit for sincerity in the desire he expressed to ameliorate the condition of the slave; but he much regretted the course he bad pur sued on this occasion. The House then divided--. Ayes Noes Majority The House then resolved itself into Co mmittee. Lord ALTHORP moved that a su m not, exceeding 58,000/. be granted out of the Consolidated Fund for th e relief of the Crown colonies. Sir A. DALRYMPLE repeated that this was a most extraordinary vote, and that culling on the House of Corn tnons to make it, was calling on i the House to gi ve i ts sanction f o the Order in Council. The whole p rocee d . ing was a proof of the greatest incapacity in the colonial Government. Air. WARBURTON approved of the resolutions, though he did not approve of the means for carrying them into effect. He thought means had be en recommended in the Committee by which those resolutions might have and propos e d suc h a one to been carried into effe ct without la y in g any burden on this country. Lord HOWICK ag r e ed with the Hon Member. Lord that pl an cou ld b e carr i e d i nto pointed o f t h e H ouse o f L or d s appointed ettGoiffloceidcncetio,ruliaociriniceiehosi.nai.ndntoisijut3tethuehete abswte state 0: 1 an ef the W es t I n di es , an d i t wasr felt that while that inquiry was pending it would have been wrong to carry any measure into effect. Mr. K. DOUGLAS had never before heard that the Government had any specific plan of relief. After some further discussion, the resolution was agreed to.—The House then resumed. - Lord ALTHORP moQ;l7;t — it be brought up to morrow. Mr. BURGE said that he should divide the House on the question, as he wished it to be postponed until Mon day.. . . . The gallery was cleared, but no division occurred ; and it was agreed that the report should be brought up on Monday. The'Ecelesiastical Courts' Contempt Bill went through the Committee. Mr. LEFROY objected to one of the clauses—that it was retrospective, and that it was inserted for the purpose of affecting an individual. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL argued the contrary, contending that the clause was not meant to apply indivi dually. I\lr. LEFROY moved an amendment, that the clause do not extend to any order or decree made prior to the passing of the Act. After some conversation the Committee divided :—. For the Amendment l2 Against it 34 Majority —22 The gallery was cleared for a second division, but it was understood that none took place. The House resumed, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow (this day). The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Half-past Two o'clock. LIST OF THE MINORITY OF TWENTY WHO VOTED AGAINST THE CROWN COLONIES' RELIEF BILL, AND CONSEQUENTLY AGAINST THE ORDERS IN COUNCIL OF NOVEM BER LAST. Lefroy, Dr. T. Baillie, J. E. Burge, W. Capel, John Courtenay, T. P. Dixon, 3. Fane, Colonel Forbes, Sir C Hope, H. T. Sibthorpe, C. D. L. Hume, Joseph Trench, Sir F. Hunt, H. Wetherell, Six C. Ingestrie, Viscount Wigram, W. Lowther, J. H. Pelham, J. C. TELLERS. Ross, C. Holmes, Wm. Bandon, Lord Douglas, Hon. K. LIST OF THE MINORITY OF TWELVE, WHO VOTED AGAINST THE ECCL& SIASTICAL COURTS' CONTEMPT BILL. Burge, W. Hume, Joseph ITullamore, Lord Dixon, J. Jones, T. Willoughby, Sir H. Forbes, Sir C. Shell, R. L. Inglis, Sir R H. Shaw, F. Ingestrie, Viscount Stuart, Lord D. C. ILefroy, TELLER. CHARGE OF FORGERY AND AT- TEMPTED SUICIDE. Yesterday, John James Levein, a young man, 18 years of age, whose connections are highly respectable, residing at Wa'worth, was brought by Mr. Thomas, the Super intendent of Police, before F. A. Roe, Esq., at Bow street, charged with having feloniously uttered a forged cheque for 2001. purporting to have been drawn by Mr. William Gill Paxton, a wine -merchant, residing in Buck ingham street, Strand, payable at his bankers, Messrs. Coutts and Co. The case excited a great deal of interest, and the office was unusually crowded. The accused, a very gente,a youth, seemed deeply afflicted. Mr. Edmonds attended for the prisoner. Mr. Joseph Partridge, one of the cashiers to Messrs. Coutts's bank, stated that between four and five o'clock, on Thursday afternoon, the prisoner presented a cheque to him for 200/., purporting to have been drawn by Mr. William Gill Paxton, a wine -merchant, who kept an ac count at the bank. On looking at the signature, he en tertaintd suspicions that the sime was not in the hand writing of Mr. Paxton, and he asked the prisoner to take a seat. He showed the cheque to several of the clerks, and they were of opinion, on comparing it with other cheques, that it was a forgery. Witness took the cheque to Sir Edmund Antrobus, Bart., one of the partners, and left it in his possession. The prisoner soon afterwards left the bank, assisted by two men, and he appeared to be very un well. He was informed that the prisoner had taken poison. Cross-examined—He did not know into how many hands the ch,qiie had gone ; he put no marks upon it when he received it ; he wrote his initials on it that morn ing, before he gave it to Mr. Thomas; he believed the cheque produced to be the same that he received from the prisoner, but he knew it merely from its general appear ance; he could not distinguish it from any other cheque written in the same hand. Sir Edmund Antrobus received a cheque for 2001., purporting to have been drawn by Mr. Paxton, on the bank of Messrs. Coutts and Co., on Thursday afternoon, from the atone witness, who informed him that the pri• saner had presented it for payment ; witness showed the cheque to Sir Coutts Trotter, and by inquiry among the clerks, ascertained that it was forged ; the prisoner was requested to take a seat in Sir Gnats Trotter's room, and soon afterwards, on passing by the door, witness saw the prisoner in the act of drinking the contents of a phial bottle; he exclaimed, " Good God, what are you doing!" the prisoner replied, " No matter." He sent for medical assistance ; on his person a phial, containing a spun quantity of laudanum, was found. Cross-examined—Witness showed the cheque to Sir Coutts Trotter, and left it with that gentleman while he returned to the prisoner. Mr. ROE—Sir Coutts Trotter's evidence will be neces' sary to prove it is the same cheque now produced that be received from Sir Edmund Antrobus. Mr. William Gill Paxton stated, that he is a wine mer• chant, residing in Buckingham -street, Strand ; the cheque produced is a forgery; no part of it is in the hand-wri ting of witness; he had known the prisoner for some time as clerk to Mr. Watts, a stock-broker, of Tokenhouse Yard ; he believed the prisoner had had opportunities of seeing his band-writing. Mr. John Sadler Thomas received the prisoner into his custody on Thursday evening, about five o'clock ; the prisoner was attended to the Station-house by a medical man, and it was with great difficulty he was forced to take an antidote; witness cautioned the prisoner, that if he said anything in reply to questiens he put to him, that the same would be used in evidence against him. Prisoner was labouring under the effects of opium, and said, " suppose lam not obliged to say anything ;" he told the prisoner that he was not ; prisoner was much distressed' and lie said be did not care what he suffered so that his mother was not acquainted with what he had done; wit n, told the prisoner that he was informed that he hail uttered a forged cheque. The prisoner, crying, replied, " Oh, yes, I have." On the person of the prisoner wit ness found a letter. 'Witness received the cheque pro duced that morning from Mr. Coulthurst, one of the partners of the Bank, in the presence of the witness Par' tridge. The following is a copy of the letter he found o 0 the prisoner : " August 9., 1832. " Ml' DEAREST MOTIIER,—When you receive this, your son will be no more. My dear mother, lam sorry that to you I could not explain why I have thus acted. You will find many that will do more than I could, but none that loves you more. May blessings ever attend you, my dear mother. " Four's devotedly, " J. J. L." " Jit DEAR ANNErrE,—I am sure that you will not refuse, now I am no more, to take advice from one who dearly love d you ; be kind to an affectionate mother, and " J. L." pro ve a blessing to her. Your's ever, " To DEAR MtTILoA.—I can only add the same, and God bless you." In,ide the envelope was written— " That God may bless you all, is the sincere wish of your'i thats t c h o e m re m a i i p g n t e ( g: h r ;t e h t s i lve e lnyasnatntriuytctlhtieeidrnefore declined saying a►r was then fully committed. affectionately, to el would prisonerhehies sufficientard‘jefhof.eirjlanl.c.tLer.ei'afv'oiir; deuce slr. to warrant a s r a r i a d n t The another e rioi ; sh, v ope i no s eilr:rterui(nisno,tianotsye; Caravans of a lighter construction than those in use for conveying th e G eneral Post letter carriers, saveb een provided for the p o li ce . B y t h ese " acce l erato r' parties of the police can, on any sudden emergency, when their presence is required, be conveyed in much less tilo s than otherwi se they could arrive; and in case of call to ' I distant part, they would be fresh, and not arrive fatigued' DEBTS OF TILE DUKE OF YORK.—A meet' ing of the creditors of the Duke of YORK was on Thurs' day held at the Thatched-house, to adopt some measure s for an inquiry into the affairs of his Royal Highness, 50 long i nvi l ved i n mystery, and to take other expe di e nt steps. A Committ ee w as a pp o i n t e d t o di ges t a plan lett. future proceedings, preparatory to a general meetings 3 which the subj-et will be more fully discussed, an d the course to be pursued determined. The Committee re ceived a great variety of documentary and other informati o , o connected with the object of the meeting, and passed a rt' solution, calling on all creditors to send in their nattiest addresses, and amount of debts, &c, Last night, a few minutes before twelve o'clock, a tire broke out on the premises of Mr. J. Alv t fmrs, leather-pipe and fire-bucket manufacturer, No. I° 3 " High Holborn. The building extend e d i n a parallel e t reetii4n with Mr. NEW'S livery-stabl e s, and its rear abutted : Day and MARTIN'S back premises, which for some time were considered in immi nen t danger. However, by,. e t . activity of the firemen they were preserved, but not wiT , eat being somewhat dam age d. Th e fire completely de stroyed the building in which it originated.