The Sun. — London, England, 1804-03-16 00:00:00

~" UMBER 3587•] IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. 1 HOUSE OF PEERS. THURSDAY, MARCH 15. HEARD Counsel on Lady Mary Fitzgerald's claim to the Ross Peerage ; to be further heard on Tuesday next. A conversation ensued on the Irish Deacons' and Priests' Bill, in which Lord ELLENiaolcoucti, the Bishops of S r. ASAPR. FERNS, HEREFOR.D,, and the LORD Cu...Lb/est-um, Spoke, after which the Bill was ordered to be committed on this day se'nnight.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. THURSDAY, MARCH 15. THE Irish Duty Bill was read a third time and passed,. The Irish C ounterva il ing Duty Bill was read a thud time and passed. The Order of the Day was read for the second reading of the Croydon Canal Bill, when Mr. 16t.t.tirvz moved that it be read a second time this day six months. Atter a short conversation between Mr. How Ak n, Lord W.Russtl.l., and Mr. Cox, the Amendment was agreed to. Mr. PITT rose to give notice that as Tuesday next was an open day, he should on that clay for leave to bring in a Bill for ments in th e making e Amend mode of some raising an Army of Reserve, and for the more effettual improvement of the Army. He said his ohjeft was to bring in the Bill in order th a t it alight be p , rinted and then lie over till after the Recess. CONDUCT OF THE ADMIRALTY. Mr. PlT7' said he rose, in pursuance of the Notice h e h a d given, to call the attention of he House t o some Motions which he had to sul)mit to their consideration respeEling the Naval Defence of the d Country. H e had reason to believe that a part,ua,nas an imp ortant part of the information whiChhe desi rous to obtain, was- not likely to meet. with any opposition. A s h e was desirous of not tre•passinige Un necessarily u p on t h e attention of the House, 1 Mould confine himself, in the first instance, to . Merely opening. the general natur e and objeti of his Untilms, flattering himself that if they nict'with arl, serinni objeaion, he should be allowed to enter objinote at large into the discussion of the subjeft. The eft of his first Motion would be, " That an Humble Address be presented to His Majesty, pray. ing that heAvotild be graciously pleased to give i_ zedion s t h at there be laid before the House an Ac.. count of th e N um b er of S hips of the Line 5. 0 gun sloopsi Armed Cutters, Sec. in Ships, Frigates, Commission on thel3lSt of Dec. 1.., yj • on the 3oth Sep t . i got, and on the 31st Dec. ~` 1003, distinguish - il l how many of them were employed as Guard etving Ship Rec SI .Hoipital Ships, and Floating ships, ouches. The °hie of this Motion was to call for a statement of the Wh ole of the Naval rcitce of the Country at the three periods he had alluded t°' That description of the Naval Force which he meant more particularly to allude to, was that which would tie Most zpr.licAle thdillntif nifitilli in the presertt Cri 6is, he meant that kind of route which was the best calculated to defeat the preparations which the Enemy had made for the Invasion of this. Country. He had reason to believe that it would be found that the description of force applicable to the peculiar pur pose of encountering with the Flotilla destined by the Enemy for the Invasio n of this Country, was less in point both of numbe r and of force, than it was at a time when the danger was much less than it was at present, and when there were not greater means of preparation than might, with a li tt l e diligence, have b een found upnn the t Was present occasion. He as. tutned that it would be found to h e much les s tha n i at any f ormer period during the late War, andhat h e had no do u b t that he should- be able to prove it ought to h ave been much greater. The ne ouse xt point to whlth he wished to call t h e attention of the was one which appeared to him to be of the greatest importance. It Occurred to the Admiralty Board that one part of the Naval Force of the Countryi viz. that which from its size and con. struftion was fit to aft in shallow water, requir ed some addition to be made, to it, and accordingly by a public advertisement,. they intimated their in_ tendo n of contrading for a number of un.vesseli. 'Why no such step was taken before 'nigh t be flatter of subsequent consideration. .If he was not misin.. formed, this determination was adopted in January 1804, and then Contrads were entered into k r building were Gun_ entered five of which Wer to be en Vessels, in three months, and three rmainder in six months. Now, whether this Paper was or was not granted, it would be a mate rial point to inquire, why it was that this au that: tation.was not thought of before ? When w e knew that in the course of the sunlnier great preparations 'were making hy the Enemy ; when it was said from high authority, in the month of August, that vi gorous measures ought to be taken to Prevent in vasion; when we saw that the flotilla of the Enemy Were colleding in their ports, under the eye of such a naval force as we then had to watch them ; when we saw that that flotilla had increased to between two and three hundred in the month of November ; and when we knew that there of Boul ogne alone above were in the h ar b our 0 0 sail, i n d ependent of ere t t hose which wolleaed 10 in the Texel, in Flush int", in fielvoet, Brest, and the other ports of France and Holland; when we were told by Government that we might expeft the Invasion from day t o day ; when that warning had been There than once repeated ; when we saw the im rnense preparations of the Enemy, delayed only to form them upon a scale greater than even apprehen sion had estimated ; v, hen we k new that in the' 50 Powerful G un harbou r of Boulogne the Enemy had collefted above fi°till 1 t 80 - at s to escort the rest of their a o our shores ; when all these circumstances Were considered, it was surely a subjed well de serving of inquiry, as this augmentation to that Vecies of our Naval Force was thought of at so latebefore a period, and whir such an interval interposed these Vessels weie contraaed for ? fic now '44 t to "" s u F RIDAY, MARCH 16, 1804..' put it to the House, if there was any thing grave or serious in this subjed that could claim their at. tention. If Government had been right in making an immense addition to our Land Force, to enable us to meet the Enemy on our own shores; if Go- . vernment had been serious in the warning which they had circulated through all parts of the kingdom ; if we had been taught to believe that the Enemy had only waited till their preparations were com pleted, and were now only waiting for a favourable opportunity to cross the Channel ; he would only ask whether Parliament would acquiesce that such an augmentation to our Naval Force should be design edly suspended so long, and that, when the augmenta. tion was detettnined upon, so long a period should be allowed for preparing them as three months for some, , and six for others ? This was the object of his second Motion ; it was to ascertain whether he was or was not founded in the propo. sition he had advanced, whether an increase in our vessels teal not attar :tile beferc the period at which it had been attempted by the Admiralty, and whether such an interval as three and six months ought to have been allowed for preparing them. He had an. additional reason for pressing this subject, which was, the recollection of what had been done on repeated .occasions, and in cases of lighter pressure in the course of last War. He thought he could state and produce Documents to prove that at three different periods in the course of last War, viz. in 1794, in 1797, and in 18ot, it was found necessary to augment the same oner i ve tion of force, that a considerable number of Gun ' vessels were ordered to he cons , rutted, and that in the two former of those periods, the vessels were completed in 8 or 10 weeks, and that at the last period he had mentioned, vessels of a similar con strudion to those which were now ordered, were completed in 12 or 4 weeks, instead of which three months were now allowed for some, tend six months for others. if this fad should turn out to be as he had stared it, it wotiid induce him on a future day to move for an Address to His Majesty, praying that he would order the most effectual measures to be taken for using the utmost expedition for increase ing that description of our Naval Force which_ was the best calculated to encounter the force prepared -by the Enemy for the Invasion of this Country. His next Motion Would he for Copies of the Golees given by the Board of Admiralty for building Gun. vessels by contra& in 1794, 1797, 180 e, 1803, and 1804 re. spedively,:witlathe number of the Vessels so order. ed, the dine of their being contracted for, arid the time when- they. were compleated. This account related to the general state. of the Force to which he had alluded, and would enable the House to com pare the number 'of those vessels that were ordered at those different periods; and in making that comperi. e'en, the Houseevcold always beer io 11-eo - e1 the &Macs) e degrees of danger that existed now and at those periods, and the House would thcn,.have to judge whether they ought not to take some stepsoo quic ken' these preparations. The se Motions were therefore calculated to put the House in possession of the state of our Naval Defence, and of the means taken to augment it, with reference to the degree of danger with which, we were threatened. This was a subject which would naturally press itself upon the attention of the House ; its import ance was such that no words could state it suffi ciently strong, and therefore he would not occupy their time in attempting to expatiate upon it.— There was not, he was sure there was not one man in the House that would not agree with him in thinking that it cdostituted one of the most -im portant objects that could engage .their attention, inasmuch as it teas intimately connected with the actual safety of the CoUrory ; upon such a subject it would heretore be a waste of words to say much. But there was another consideration connected with it, which though more remote, was still of great importance, he meant that supposing (that which was not (Noy possible but preleable) that the present contest shetaid be continued for any considerable length of time, what were our means of maintaining t,ur Nav;,l Fence upon a permanent footing, through a long War, upon which depended not only the fate ano fortune of this Country, but upon which the des tiro of Europe and perhaps the world depended ? He would tot enlarge upon this aubjed, but it certainly was highly 'deserving of the consideration of that House to know what means had been adopted to ensure an accession of new ships in order to maintain that Naval . superiority which we . now possessed. Without entering into any detail respecting our Naval Forte at the beginning of the War, he meant as far as related to the state of the Ships, he wished only to remark, that'after ten years of a contest such as the last, it was impossible for any man to sup. pose but that our Navy must he in a situation to want much more considerable repairs than they .did in the yearl793, after an interval often years peace, durin g which time the most unremitting exertions had been used to put every ship in a-condition fit for service, so that at the commencement of the War there were no less than 120 ships of the line nearly fit for service. If he were wrong in this statement, he should soon be detected by granting the Papers. He did not wish to call for a precise statement of the amount of our Naval.FOrce at the commencement pf this War, because, for the reasons he hail stated, it could not be in so good a condition as it was at the commencement of the former war ; if, however, he made this Concession, it must, on the other hand, be admitted to him, that if we felt and knew that such was the situation of our Navy, that greater exertions ought to have been made to repair and renew it. This proposition rested upon such plain grounds, that he should only abuse the patience of the House to argue . it. There were. two methods by which the Naval Force of this Country was provided, the first .was by building ships in the King's Yards, and the other was by build. ing them in private yards. He believed that he did not go beyond the fad, when he stated', that if they were to look to the history of the Navy, they would find that very near two_thirds of the ships of the line were built in private yards. Every man knew that during the War the building of ships in the King's yards was nearly suspended, and if it existed at all, it was only in one or two of the minor ports not much used for repairing. If, in the course of the last War any great number of ships were added to the Navy from the King's yards, it was of ships that were begun antecedent to the commencement of the War, and out of 26 sail of the line which were added to the Navy last War, there were not more than two from the King's yards which were not begun before the commencement of the War. From this statement he inferred that at the commencement of a War, unless we were perfedly satisfied with the state of the Navy, and that there no reason to suppose . (ha; w:; should want fresh ships, that our earliest objed ought to be, to begin to build vecsels in the Merchants' yards. Now,if he were not much mistaken (and this was a subject that did not require secrecy, because it was one that must attract general observation), from .the year rBol, from the time 'the present Admiralty came into office, there had been but two Ships of the Line contracted for in the Merchants yards. He abstained from reasoning upon this subject, but he hoped he had said enough to convince the House of the necessity of Some Ilapiry upon the Suhjcst. It was not necessary for him to use any argument to show that was essential at all times, and especially at the present, that our Navy ought to be in as good a condition as it was during the former War ; and that we aught to omit no opportunity of providing means for insuring a succession of fresh ships. The result of what he had stated upon this subject was, that it appeared, from experience, that more than two_thirds of our Ships of the Line were built in private yards; , that experience she wed that in time of war, building in the King's yards was in a great degree, if not entirely suspended ; that in the last wax not more than two Ships were added to the Navy from the King's Yards, except Those which were begun before the war ; and lastly, that with a greater want of a supply of Snips than in any former War, that not inure than two Ships of the Line had been contraed for in the Private Yards by the preSent Admiralty. He had been informed from very good authority, that there were in the River no less, than t o r or 15 docks and slips which ttsed to be employed in ing Ships, which were at this moment totally un occupied. Upon this subjet also he should have to propose an Address to His Majesty. His next Motion would be for an account of the Ships of the Line built from the commencement of the nst War. to ;Sot, and from that•to-Oe present time, :midi -an account also of such as were now building, specify ing the date of the order for building them, and the e lime when they were expeded to be finished. With resped to the latter point, via. when they were to he finished and launched, he should viish for infor mation upon that point ; but as some Gentlemen [night think that it would be a means of giving information to the Enemy, he would not press it. His great, objed was to prove that building" in the private yards was a matter of indispensable necessity. His next Motion would he for a simi lar account of the Ships of the Line contracted for in the present year, the date o f t h e or d er f or b u ild. ing them, the places where they were to be built, and the time they were to be finished. The next Motion he had to. make was one to which he did not think any objection could be made. The House had heard on a former day from his Noble Friend (Lord CAsToattaAcH) a general statement of our Naval Force, and a comparison of our present Force with what it was in the late War. But as far as he could recolled, that was only a statement of the number of Ships, without specifying how they were employed. The next material subjea to which he wishes to dire& the attention of, the HOuse, was the number of Seamen that had been ob tained. In the former War we had started from a Peace Establishment of i 6,000 men, whichimme diately before the War had been augmented to 18,000 men ; and before the end of the first year of that War, the number of Seamen amounted to between e and 76,000 men, including Marines. In the present they started from an Establishment of 50,000 men, and it should he recollected that Ministers always acted upon an impression . that from' hour to hour they might be engaged in a fresh contest. It should also be recollected that at the commencement of the present War, our Commerce was so increased, that our mercantile shipping had been augmented in a very large proportion. Under these circutristances he believed that the number of Seamen was increased last year from 50,000 to -86,000 men, so that in the one case nearly five times the number of Seamen had been procured, and in the other they had not been doubled. The House would perceive that he had confined himself to stating the general nature. of his Motions, and he would not trouble t hem further at the present moment. Whether the whole or only a part of the Papers were granted, heshould certainly, on another occasion, trouble t h e House with a Motion for an Address, such as he had before alluded to, and which he conceived that con siderations of public safety . at this moment would render it' the indispensable duty of Parliament to acquiesce in. H:, should now conclude with moving, “ that there be laid before the House an account of time number of Ships of the Line, 5o gun Ships, Frigates, Sloops, Armed Cutters, &c. in commission o n the 3 tst December 1793, the 3oth Sept. I SW, and the 31st Dec. 1803." Mr. TIERNEY said, that no man could be more impressed with the importance of this subject than he was : But the Motion of the Right Hone Gentle. .17). \ ' c , s . ' I.` -- ‘1 ',t(l d • IPRICE SIXPENCE; man appeared to him to. be one of the most extraore (Unary he had ever heard, and was brought forward upan the most extraordinary grcunds. He shou:d have thought that those who entertained 'the •s aile sentiments which that Right Hun. Gentleman had always professed, would have abstained from rnoe tions which could have'no other efred but to coooe despondency and suspicion throughout the Kitigdoo) with respeet to our Naval Force. That the Rt. Hon. Gent. should have made such a motion appeared to him extraordinary, but it was more so that he should• have brought it forward without any grounds tvha ever. For he had founded his Motion merely upen his own opinion and judgment, as superior to that of :he Board of Admiralty. He confessed that be was in general a friend to .Inquiries, when there were any grounds of complaint made out, but in this case there was no complaint, for he should he glad! to know in what girt of the Couotry any discontent prevailed. (Here there was a cr . ) of !fear 1 Hear ! ) Gentlemenmight cry Hear ! Hear ! He was ready to admit, that if he confined hiunielf to the House of Commons - there was noise, and the only thing that astonished him was, that that sh 'old be the case when the Country was so. quiet. •It had. al ays been usual to lay. sonic foundation for theselchohof Motions, to say .that our Convoys had been , ap_ tared, that the Enemy's Fleets had escaped from their Harbours, or that out Coast had been in-lilted. . But when it was notorious •thah the Enemy's, Fleets! were sealed up in their Ports ; when it was un,verallyt admitted that our Commerce was amply proteoleil•;: when there was no complaint against.the Admiralty,' except from a small number of men who were guilty; of back-bhing and back-sliding ; with that excep_l tion only, there was, he would maintain e a reefed; confidence in the wisdom and vigilance of the - ATLI,' mitalty. He wished •to know how long it . .wasp since the Right ,Hune Gentleman had changed mind about Lord ST. VINCENT ? He rememberede to have heard him in that House pay that .Noble: Lord the most high and deserved compliments,!!andi represent him as deserving, the confidence of:thei Nation. These eulogiums were well descrved,,foto. there never was a British -Admiral that more ga1...7 lantly fought his way up to his exalted station than:. Lord ST. VINCENT had done, and he now wished to' know what he had done to forfeit his claims teepubea lic confidence ? He knew that Noble Lord well, and lie was,sure that no hon Ours, no emoluments, 'would; compensate him for the loss of the public con:: lidence in the hour of danger. The House '-were called upon to presume that the , re, was a want of professional skill in the First Lord of the Admi ralty, which the abundant talents A4the.Rigiit Hone Gentleman were able to Supply. ' , He llad the,greatesg opinion of the talents of that. Right-Hon.,,,Gueulea man, particularly as a Volunteer; and •he - haaladtvezi heard ti'hn ~!ec)aho Upon „Milieuhy topieooebititgerie---4 pleasure ; but he thought the Right Hone - Genslrmiirt might content himself_With setting t'he L.Old,Setsvie* to rights, without undertaking to ibstrud VI NC ENT in his own profession. • The licit Wrap,* that Lord ST. VI NC ENT did nutoaetitipath.:.irtr. thin alarm which the Right Hun. Gentienian felt. -_,BUt, allowing the Right Hon. Gentleman the privilege. of being in a panic if he pleased, it surely' did hot follow, that the firmness of Lord ST. V I NC ENT Mai to be blamed . . With all due deference to the Right Hon. Gentleman., it did not exanly foiliaw, that because he said a larger Naval Force was necessarrYi that therefore a larger Naval Force was necessary., —lf the present motion for Papers was agreed to, the consequence must be, that an Inquiry. mui be instituted in to t h e w h o l e o f t h e c.h Mut i of d te Admiralty ; - and he would ask Gentle, men, whether, .upon the mere opinion of that Righe Hon. Gentleman, without any satisfactury grounds being laid before the House, they would, under the present circumstances, take such a number of .naval men front their duty as would be necessary, if this Inquiry was instituted, and Whether they could now deihate sufficient time to it ? He' was sure the . House could not consent to such a proposition; and be believed that it never entered into the head of man to propose such t one under such circumstances before. With respect to what the, Right lion., Gentleman had said about the 23 Gunboats, he certainly saw no reason to oppose that Motion, and he had also no objection to consent to the account of the number of the Seamen now in the Service, though if the Right Hon. Gentleman only wonted that account for the purpose of making comparisons . with former times, he did not exaaly see .hibly that could improve our System of Defence, which the Right Honourable Gentleman professed to be his sole objeEt. If ‘ these accounts were granted! he , believed there would appear to be a greater degree of Force now , employed than was supe posed.. It would appear that the number of King's Ships in Commission would be about ;co, of Trinity House Frigates 9,,0f Lighters, Laura:ales ; and other small Craft, 373, many of which were much superior to the Gun-boats of which. the Right Hon. Gentleman was so enamoured; East lndiarnen 19, and a Flotilla composed of Vessels ready for sea, of 62+ Vessels, making altogether a Naval Force of upwards of 1503 Vessels. Having equip ped Such a force since the commencement of the • War, he thought the Noble Lord might be excused about the twenty-three Gun-boats, even if there was any ground of blame upon that teobjeCto He hoped he might be perunitted to say, that Lord Sr. VINCENT, with ail his ignorance and all his tailings, 'might be presumed to know something about Ma own profession ; it was not very absurd to suppose, that the Noble Lord might have some notion at what time these Vessels might be wanted; it ape. pealed that in January he thunght that these •Vessels would nut be wanted for three months ; the 'three months were now very nearly elapsed, and it di3 not appear that the Noble Lord 'was very wrong - • • • •