The Sun. — London, England, 1801-11-28 00:00:00

11141,'ERIAL IPARLIAM s HOUSE. OF PEERS,\ FRIDAYS 27; .•. • , TrzE. T..arl Of CARYSFoRT was introduced in the r,sual form; s*oxn, arla 'took b k is seat, as Baron CA. RYSFORT. His Lordstiti's. Supporters 'were, Lords VEk.txt , . - fit and BRAyzt Their Lordships.then_ proceeded to the considerp of thl Scots Appeal, joriNsToN, GOFPON, and ,Others, 2. WATSON and EB E NE2, E STC, TT, E,SCICS; . . , - The SOLI'cITOR GENERAL Was heard" at consi. ,ierable- length on the part of the Appellants ; after which their Lorciships postponed the further Ong of the case till Tuesday. The various Bills before the Rouse were for ardcd in their respeaive stages. ' Some private business was then disposed of, and he House adjourned till Tuesday, when their Lord. hips stand s9linnoned upon 1-loAktg's Divorce Bill. ROUSE OF COMMOIVS, FI“DAY, NOV. 27. `Tilt Militia Bill was read a second time, and .committed for Monday. A Xessage from the Lords infor:ned the House, their Lordships had agreed to the Lottery Mistake Bill, and the Starch . and Distillexy Bill, without any Amendment. The Eloose in a Committee on the Naval Stores Bill—Report on Monday. POOR. Mr. NEWBQLT moved the Order of the My for a, 'Committee on the Bill relatiVe to relieving Poor Persons, not wearing Badges. On the Question for the 'SPEAKER leaving the Sir ITEM. ELFORD - sairl, that lie Wished to say very few words before the House went into a Committee, "which he hoped Would be the last time be should have occasion to call their attention to the present subject, because the alteration pioposed by his Hon..and Learned Friend in the provisions of the Bill, would, h 1 his mind, do away - the ofr_ jeOions he had heretofore .urged. Some cOmpli ments, he said, had been made -to the Hon: Gentle man %vim brought for Ward :this pleasure, on the purity of his motives : if he had not paid hirn that tribute, it was because he supposed it impossible any one could attribute to him any but honourable motives for his condu&t. He: tritsted,litAvcrer, that the House and the Public were inclined to view, with the same candour,' the motives of those who had not opposed,. but 'promoted a discussion of the Question. It would be recollec=ted that they had, from the hegginning, admitted, that an evil exist_ ed, to which it was necessary a remedy should be applied, and the only question was, what the _na ture, extent, and duration of that remedy ought ..to be ? Another doubt had also been proposed,. whe ther it was a wise and, prudent step totally to do away -a regulation of very long standing, which had been enacted by our predecessors with a view of in dueing habits of industry and economy in .the lower plass of People. He particplarly called the atten. lion of the House to . thise circumstances, because some opinions had been thrown out,i the tendency of-which was to insinuate that those who provoked thd discussion of the measure, had. not that strong feeling for the distresses of the. Poor, and that full sense of the loyalty and patience with which they had condu6lo.l themselves, during the very severe trials which they had lately experienced ;—opinions such as these from some quarters 'might be reasOna. bly expe4ed, and therefore be heard without much emotion ; nut from another quarter they could- not be listened to, for various reasons; without a-consi:: derable degree of mortification - and regret. The House would naturally conclude, that he meant to aliude to what had fallen from his,Right Hon. Fijei-a4 on a former occasion, when the encomiums which were lavished on the exemplary conduCt of the Peo_ vie during the late pressure, might lead to an in_ terence that those who differed from him had not the same kind of feelings with himself on that sub. ied. He was sure it was quite u nne c essar y to state, that he knew the bonourable.and just feelings of his Right Hon. Vriend too well, to suppose .that he designed to make any such charges ; but as that kind of encomium did not appear necessarily to,axise from any thing that had preceded it„ and as it could not be supposed that any light or groundless opi nions could be delivered from that quarter, the in ference he had alluded to would most probably be made, which would tend to weaken the influence and authority of those Hon. Members who had taken the same part with himself, in their capacity of Magistrates, and thus take off that guard of -the Safety and tranquillity of the Country, which was derived from that 'influence and authority. ' He re peated, that nothing could be, further from his mind than .to attribute such intentions to his Right Min.. Friend ; but he thought- it necessary to say these few words, .in order )to do away the impression which what he had referred to might otherwise have made on the public mind. He wished also to add, that the discussion of this subject had been Pro du6live of that fin which it . had been instituted--a pretty, considerable inves4ation of the subject, and a very material alteration in the provisions of the Bill, to which, as it would now stand, he -was ready to give his entire'assent, The House then resolved itself into aCommittee, Mr. BERKELEY objeOed to any innovation in the Poor Laws, conceiving that the whole Sys tem ought to be submitted to the consideration of a committee; and thoroughly investigated, in order that such alterations might be made as should be thought necessary. So many alterations had, he said, been lately made in the Poor Laws, that it Could scarcely he known what the Poor Laws were. He had no obje6lion, he said, to assist in the re formation of the Poor Laws, a labour which was at present highly necessary, as the Landed Interest was sapped - by. then. The Poor Rates, which were in the year I'm, 6s:• in the pogna, were now t he said, from '9s.. to' tos..; an increase, which h e . thought,. sliewed the necessity of sortie investiga. ion of that System under which it h a d taken V4c;. ..sat , wouid - nOt what ha r d been advanced by 'tfie Hon,..Gentleinan (Mr. 11E lk“ that it Might he *per to examine iinii,..investigate-, the whole System of the Poor Laws;. and make such al. terations as :might appea.r necessary,' but he was • sure that HoUse would ‘not.a4 worthy of itself 4 it withheld the administering of a remedy for a griev-• mice proved to exist s and Which required inynediate. legislati've interference, until an opportunity occur red ofrevisin& the-whole System of Poor Laws.-- . - When such aty investigation should tale place, -it would require all•the atoritiop 7 of : the ablest „Mem :bets of that .. House, ik „ long ;Session of Parliament. He was cegfaiyi;! 4iowever,._ he did not belie the sentiments . 'of- _Gentlemen in that House, when, he said they would blush if _they delayed the means of . alleviating any particular evil until they had investigated the whole Sys tem, in Order', to inquire what particular parts of it .inight require- the legislative interferenee.,. When an evil was proved' to the s‘itisfaCtion of that House to exist, then .was the time to re, medY. it. , The increase of the Poor Rates , had been .mentioned by the • Hon. Gentleman' (Mr. BERKELEY), but it should be JecolleCted, that a great part of, that, increase arose out of political Circumstances, and had pothing strialy to do with the relief of the Poor. The support of the wives, and families of Militia Men, and many, other. eir, cumstances contributed to make the Poor Rates . Much larger than they were before. The greater part of the increase of the Poor Rates did not arise therefore from the relief of the Poor, consti, tutionaily so called. The Hon. Baronet (Sir W. Et:FORD). had, he- said, done him but justice supposing he would not attribute a want of feeling for the. distresses of the poor to other Gentlemen. What he aid onfa former evening, which had been alluded to by the . Hon. Baronetarose from the irh _pulse ofhis feelings, - on a proposition' being made 'for ,delayirig the measure now before the House ; it was under the 'impression that proposition- made upon his mind that he had made those observations, without the remotest intention of imputing' the Ivent of feeling to any Gentleman, He - considered the Bill as not only wise andpolitic, but he thought that if ever therewas"a.. just appeal ro the passions and feelings of the House, it- was . ' the- present Inca- - sure.- • Every one must know, .thatlr'the Badge had beep affixed to all the PaWAl.3plki t i‘g 2 ivithin A late period for relief, alinoseiNihflatotiring Poor in the kingdom must Asa be well known; 'that when. men become 'disgraced, and degraded their own 'estimation, a'S every man must if 'compelled to wear such a Badge, the moral principle became weakened, and they were - easily led to the commission of crimes 'whieh 'before thiy shuddered at. Had the Poor, applying for relief, been indiscriminately compelled to wear this• Badge, they would have become bad .subjcffi, bad him- bands, - bad fathers, and bad men. It was to him a melancholy refledion, that many of the Poot had been rendered - unable, through the pressure of the times, to procure proper - and . decent apparel ; thinking, as he did, that than circumstance - wbuld'i also contribute to lessen that proper pride which ' tended to preserve them from the commission of dishonourable' afts, he should be extremely sorry if this measure was delayed a moment longer than 'was necessary. • Mr. SIMEON approved of the Bill, conceiving that the Hon. Gentleman who had proposed the measure had very- properly taken•a middle course, tt'ithout interfering with the general:principle. On the general subjet of the Poor. Laws, he allowed they were complicated and intricate, but he thought most of the questiOns which. could ;irise. out of them, }hid been already settled, and that they had now generally, become matter of fad, which admit ted of little or no doubt. lie thought, however, that Gentlemen who, with the best intentions, brought forward measures to meet any eircumstan ces that arose, were always entitled to attention and-fipplinse, and that they_only erred when they iittempted •tio,:grasp the whole System of the Poor Laws, and to providefor.qery popible .case : he, therefore, .did not agree. with q , p 3 iA9n ie .Pcntletnan (Mr. BERKEI:EI'), in his ;general censure of'the Poor Laws: • ---.1;;711/1434'. Mr..ELLISON thought by far fa'd i casideiable a sum of money had been spent to arrive at the matter of faft mentioned by the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. SusitEoN)., He Considered every measure of this nature with reference to the 43d of Elizabeth, from which he never wished to depart. The ACt of William 111. was made fOr ordinary times, and not for, times like those we had !a:ely expe rienced. He thought; that if there was wretch in the kingd(ini capable, for the sake of a paltry moiety of a zos. penalty, to compel an Overseer to carry i.ito eXceutton a Law, the breach of which was more honourable to him than the. observance, this Bill certainly ought to pass. . . The SPEAKER observed, that a great deal had been said, which waz not strictly in order, but as it had been allowed, he wished to say a few words relative ro the observations which had been made. With respect to the motives of Gentlemen, which had been made part of the discussion, it was not to be supposed but that Gentlemen aCled there with the purest and best motives. As to the observa tions made on the Poor Laws, it should be observed, that a different management frequently took place in different Parishes, by which, as was .the case in two Parishes where he possessed property, the Poor Rates.were increased in one and not in the other.— The MI of William 111. with respal to the Pro . visions: now under consideration, had not been exe cuted in many parts of the Kingdom, but if executed at all, it most be indiscriminately; the objeft of the Bill now before the Houge; was, therefore, to make a distinetion, which appeared to be; alled for by present circumstances. Mr. BERKELEY and Mr. ;D,tEo . tf, ,se.verallrot plained. Mr. NEWBOLT said, the objea of the Bill was to prevent those persons applying for the means to styport them la their career of industrious exertion from being confounded with another and wholly different cla4s of Poor. Mr. SHAW LE FEVRE thought the objet of th-:. measure might be attained by substituting a summary determination before a Magistrate, fgr a Fosecutiol fur imiielment againstOverm rs , whom. saw- milcc rreraitryll7l - CV4 • rie did not conceive that the discontent of the Poor, fe . even riots arising in consequence, ought to to brought forward as an argument in .favour of the present Pill. He thought the Poor, during the late pressure, had been mud) better .off than before, from the ,large sums liberally contributed for their sup,. port, whilst the minor payers. of Poor Rates had ,been miserably oppressed. Tr. NEW.BP.LT said, the circumstance on which the Bill was founded, was not the penalty upon Ovet r segs; but, this, that Overseers would be corn consequence of that penalty, to carry the proy,i4jpp, jofulthe mt. of William 111. relative to badges„pitoctotecution. Mr. SHAW. 'ATV:At explained. The then passed the Committee. The House being resumed, the Report was ordered to 'be immediately received ; and being ,brought up by Mr. STußctss, was ordered to be taken into further consideration on Monday, And th6.Bill to, be printed, as amended: The ,Committee on the Exchequer Bills Fund ing Bill, and of Supply, and Ways and !Meats, were deferred till Monday. 4djogrnesl at half-past five till Monday►, THE SUN, 101.1 m QUI; DlCikt ►ALauM AUDIA.T? LONDON, NOVEMBER 2g, Igor, WE 'stated two days ago, that op this day the Marquis CoaDtwnws is expeaed to, be at. Amiens. It is supposed, that on Monday the Pleni potentiaries will have all 'assembled,. and . they will immediately proceed to business, after having verified and interchanged their respettive full powers. We have before stated it as our opinion, that all the principal pOints which are to constitute the substancp pf ; the Definitive Treaty, have al ready uncietrone the most ample discussion, and have only, at Amiens, to_ be reduced to Diplomatic form. We yesterday had the pleasure of informing the. Public, that things at Parivhave gone on in the most satisfaaory manner, ever since the arrival of Marquis COANWALLIS in that Capital. There is no reason to doubt the sincere desire an the part of the French Government, to make such an arrange ment for Peace, as may promise to ensure its stabi lity. Some alarm seems to have arisen in this Country, on the. occasion of our Fleet having been ordered to the Coast of Ireland, but we, can.see .no justifia. ble or serious cause for such alarm in the measure alluded to. Our Fleet cannot, now consistently re, tain its"situation off the ,Port,of Brest, which would be to continue the blockade of that plae—but that is no reason why we should wholly d es e r t th e Seas and leave our Ships inaftive in but harbours, they are therefore ordered to a station where they • can afford proteCtiOn to our Trade, without having the appearance of continued hostility: Besides, it should be recolleded, that till the Definitive Treaty of Peace is concluded and etchanged, we cannot be said to have returned to 'am &quill State of Peace. A Preliminary Treaty is only an 'Armistice, or a Cessatioh of Hostilities preparatory to a Peace, but from which the certainty of that - : blessing may he expeeted, more •especially after a Preli. minary Treaty digested and discussed as chat was which has recently 4een concluded between this -Country anci d Vsmct. In the tneftsure therefore of sending our sleet to Sea, we-can-discover no, ding that ought to shake the public opinion.olthe Certainty, and, of theTrobable.Stability of Peace. It .is-a considerable time since we announced that he French Armament which is about to be sent to the West Indies, was to sail with the previous knowledge and perfeit acquiescence of our Govern ment'. That the French Colony of St. Domingo should revert to a regular system of Government under the,protedion of the Mother Country, seems necessary to the permanent safety of our own posses. sions in that quarter of the globe, and it is only following the wise and reasonable policy of our Ancestors, and the obvious dilates of common sense, that when a rival Nation sends a large force to 'any quarter of the globe, we should not, in the same quarter, be found altogether weak and de. fenceless. This is a policy which may always be entertained in the truest spirit of Peace. Our Naval Establishment in rime of Peace, must ne cessarily be respeaable, and where can a portion of ;hat force be more properly employed than in a qtlart6' where a large British property is deposited, and to which a great proportion of our Commerce extends ? This reasOnitt, which is simple, and we think just, will account at. once for the detaching a Squadron to the West Indies at 'the present moment, for the purpose of strengthening our Naval Power in that quarter, an& for the Channel Fleet returning to sea. Our Colonies in the West are widely scattered, and require, for their prote4ion and security, an ac cumulation of force, more especially at a time when so large a proportion of the force of our natural rival is to be transferred to that hemisphere, even though it be wish a defined ()Net% and one which It 15 110 41AJUUL uur 111CIMMIOn, as it is our ir?te►r to with to see crowned with success. Upon these - topics we have thought it prol 4 thus slightly ro ,touch, as we perceive that the I" 'intentioned seem ready to pervert them for the pei pose of exciting alarm in the public . mind, w-ht - n real .cause for such a 'feeling, &tn 'reasonably eltis The ithpression which the British Plenipo!enti has .received of the siimerity l of the Fren‘ch Govef,? ment for the firm establishment and permanent citif . tion..of Peace, we .believe to be very strotig t # :here surely is it 3 disposition on the part of t_ British IYLinistry to entertain or excite ally (AO feeling.. While their labours 'are crowned wi t ' success for procring the return of Peace; they pughi not surely to negled arty measures' of salutary pre cautionwhich are to ensure its stability, an d en ab:i us to enjoy its blessings to their fullest extent. Neither. of the Four liambrire Mails due, li' arrived when our Paper was put to Press. A Council was yesterday► held at Lord HAvi'ss 3 ' BURY's Office, at which were present his Grace th e Duke' of PORTLAND, Earl CIPATHANI, the Lc.) Czt ANC r 14.0 R, the Right Hon. the CHANo t.os 'of•the EXCH EQU ER, Lords Pa LHANt and Hoe ART' His Excellency the Russian Ambassador; Count NYottor:zow, ! had an interview yesterday with 01 Minister for Foreign Affairs at the Secretdry State's Office. By order of His Royal Highness the 1:11.-1::: Yout ' a redudion of z ss P r i vates o f eac h C ompa q in the Brigades olGuaras is to take place. The Guards, on their passage from Egypt., are peeted in January, The two thousand gold and silver medals whit) were- to have been struck, at Constantinople, 2 4 which are to be distributed among the liritish Artl,/ in commemoration of the Vidory in Egypt, *sal.ii to be finished, and to be very weighty. The dc' sign has' more taste in it than the Ttirks gefieialif display. 'Lord Hos/tar, it is reported, goes out to India; to succeed Marquis WELLESLEY as Governor_Ge' nerah "''His Successor, as Secretary of State, 1) 0 been Mentioned to be one of those, who lipe tolorebeen distinguished on the Ofposition lien o of the House of Commons. The Right Hon. the Lou? M4yoa had a lovi interview Qn 'Thursday with' the Lords of the Ad' iniralty, Sir ROBERTDA,LLAS Messrs. HENCHMAN PLoig' DEt, JACKSON, and MILES did all Candidates for the East-India Direction. The snow was so very deep last night betweeli Winterslow, Um., Wallop, and Salisbury, that tI4 Balloon, Taunton, Clarence; and Light Salisbud Coaches, were stopped on the road; and at Ao o ' ver, the Mercury C oac h; on t h e i r way Westlv.,-", The snow came up to the body of the coaches ; art't the Mail coach, in its limy to London, was stoppeA with drifts many times, as the wind had Ircl) high. _ It VV2 E up to the body of the coaches at The Shrewsbury heavy Telegraph, and IVl,:nchesie Defiance Coaches, which left London yesterday, were there stopped by the snow ; the Manchester Mail Coach, on its way to London, was detained or' e hour at Hockliff; as was the Chester ; and after' wants taking up the Bags belonging to both Coaches/ and with additional horses, pursued their rout, NC were oblige4i, on their way frequently to quit 0 1 road, and go over fields. At eleven o'clock this forenoon, five of the Awls calcites had not reached the General Post-Osce. The' following is an Extract of a Letter front 1 , .Serjeant of the Gist Regiment, attached to the RP ?edition under Sir HoNtz Poritioo, dated Rosettst , Sept. 4, from which we learn that Egypt was ; 116 ultimate destination Of that Expedition We lift the Cape on. the 30th March, And oi l the 18th of May arrived at Mocha, from whence we sailed up the Red Sea, and arrived at - Cosseir , in Upper Egypt ) , on the 7th of July, :whew vi. joined the Indian Army. We left Cosseir ors t 2Xst of July, and marched seven days across 10 De*art, and well may it be called aDesart, for in the course of thit time I saw riot a mark of vf4 getation, except two or three Cashow trees. Wi t met with wells at three different places on oar march ; on other days the water was carried leather bags on the backs of camels. On the Ow we arrived at Kenne on the Banks of the and on the 3d of August embarked on that Rirer"' boati for Cairo, where we arrived on the rerdr.: On 28th we again embarked at Cairo for RosetL"' and on our arrival there, on the 3 isF, received ac" counts of the surrender of Alexandria, to our , grea t mortification, as we were within two short day's march of it. We expect to remain some time in Egypt, and on quitting it will no doubt be sent to Bengal, as the Regiment is put upon that Establish ment.'" At Hampton-Green Fair, in Norfolk, last week , there was the largest-show o f b easts t h at h as been seen at any fair in that Distrift this season. There were not less than 4000 head of c att l e on t h e gi ound the second day, principally S cots an d I r i s h ; the price, however, were held as high as at Swalrharn and Woodbridge, where the numbers were very in ferior. One of the most attractive Exhibitions now in Paris, and indeed there seems every reason why it should be so, is an invisible Irma", to be seen for three francs. This is, at least, a - novelty. Those , who go to sae her will prob a bly be entertained,' says a Parisian Journalist, "as those were who wen t to see an extraordinary animal, advertised 500, 6 tithe ago, of a breed between a rabbit and Vol' The Exhibitor came forth, and apologized for death of the animal itself, but, determined .to VII tify the Public, as far as was in his power, Noe' to skew them the parents of this extraordinary rt.. 11; ] duaion,'at the same time bringing forward a/5 and a rabbit." J r At itivtD [t t " "Wxs, fr, TR!, Clay - I:7.riner, yi!, 'gs, from )4 e up to Cl Tar, ° Rni/No T 41 ' 63 c;isic I V with th f l ee in the iiillt 1 2Co C of tobacc ' l4 adr on . o ff b l e t j'il; the ednesday (11 41;1 fsQl:(4\ r w r b e luce I SCUit no In Harbo Conati ~"1 got dim and has Cted to '4l the 16a ) 1" %„ 11 E Farc( tats at this ;' 4s -4 of De performer 4, t'''4 Epir 111 . This 6 ‘ . t ati.er s he if 7 been a tie l:au pen I•ki C ' e ption of cone te; t „ ta ble -suci t%;` l totvat t% ted w atld thhl oi 111. ha 8 t o, \v - I'PY to it hQ41r4.1:% th : Past tft M "ortf t )(1"ki 1. 4 a ha th h. l4l : tartlf edfr ,- hr Pla ce , ton - 1 sh, ( Ara,