The Sun. — London, England, 1804-04-26 00:00:00

ti.erreel rOnSiStentri 2‘i , plol t of the former. My manner Of forming it would be also different, ord ,his I shall now lay before the House. My first view, then, is to reduce the Militia to 40,0c0 in England, and from 12 to 73,003 its Scotland, and to increase the Army of Rel.. -serve as a substitute for it in the same proportion. t present we have a Militia Establishment of :00,000 men. Of these I would take rS,OOO from the Militia of England, and 4000 from those of .Scotland. I would by no means propose to. do this suddenly, for it would be improper, :ina perhaps dangerous, all at once to reduce or interrupt that sort of Force which we now have. But when va cancies occurred in the Militia, instead of filling them up, I would have the men applied to the other and more efficient Force. This would be attended, at the same time, with the material advantage, that one-half would be withdrawn from the competi tion that now prevails with the Regidar Army. My first objea then is, not to reduce, but to alter the proportions of our different kinds of Force, and to enlarge that out of which the Regular Army may I v ! most easily recruited ; and if now, when of the 40,000 fixed for the Army of Reserve, only 30,000 are raised, 9000 have eiigaged in the Re. gular Service, the chance is still greater, if the raising of Militia should be stopped, and that sort of Force increased which has an obvious tendency to enlist in the Army. What I, 2dly, entitle to assume is, that the objeas for which we contend are so important, that the Country will be disposed to submit for their attainment to in tonveniencies which would otherwise be iniolerable, and to privations which on no other account could with justice be imposed. No exertions that can be made are to be omitted at a crisis so unexampled as the present, so big with the destiny not only of this country, but of the world ( Wear ! Hear !). No privations are to be murmured at, no efforts left on tried, when we ?re assured that our duty is not only to save ourselves from subjugation, but that whatever may he the wreck of Europe, to take care that this Country shall ever form a glorious exception ; (icmd frier " Hear! Hear!") however Europe may be cverwhelmed,it is our duty to take came that this cor. rer of the world at least shall be safe from the fury of the tempest (had cries of " Hear! Hear!") and not only that we ourselves shall be secure, but that we should possess a Force that may be a resource to other Nations, whose alliance may be of advantage,or when they may be reduced so low, that their alliance can neither be an advantage nor an honour, in order tto rouse them to energy and co-operation ( Hear ! Hear!) We are not now to look to questions .of inconvenience to individuals, to parochial difficul ties, and objeds of small importance; but exert every nerve to rouse the Nations against the Com mon Oppressor; and if they will not be instigated to join us, we are to bear every pressUre, rather than be chained down to defend our own shores, instead of filling the rink which we have former ly held in the eyes of Europe, or seeing the Eu ,ropean Nations degraded to such a situation, that. the question of rank among them would be nothing (enthusiastic cries of " Hear! Hear!") The idea, then, which I wish to convey is, that a Force ought to be raised which would afford a constant supply to the Regular Army, in case of the failure of the ordinary means of recruiting in any emergency, when a number of men might suddenly be wanted. The second objeft is, that out of between 6o and 70,000 troops so raised, a certain number should be allowed to enlist in the Regular Army at certain periods ; and that the vacancies should be filled up by ballot, the manner of avlich I shall explain. I con ceive'that by this plan front to to tg,cco men might annually be added to the Regular Army, indepen. dent of the ordinary means of recruiting, and these too much more important and serviceable men than any that could be obtained by other methods. Thus our offensive force would be rapidly multiplied, whilst our defensive force would also be enlarged and rendered more efficient. The sphere of our ex ertions may in this manner be extended, and such a force constituted as will be superior to any other, both for the defence of the coast, and for foreign service. But it is not my intention to stop entirely at this method of supplying the Army by means of this Force ; I exped also to be enabled to frame and con. stitue it in such a mariner as to render it not only fitted for facilitating the supply of the Regular Army, but also peculiarly well calulated for inter nal defence. What I mean is shortly this : as the Army of Reserve now stands, it is dispersed in separate battalions, having little or no connexion with the battalions of toe Regular Army, and out of these all were allowed at any time, to enlist in the Regulars this has certainly a bad effeEt upon the discipline of those Troops. Now I propose, that the measure which I shall bring forward shall establish a permanent connexion between the Battalions of the Army of Reserve and the Regulars that have teen raised in par ticular. Counties. If this system shall be adopt ed, this very circumstance will tend materially to increase the Regular Army and facilitate its recruiting, by establishing a sort of family connexion between each Battalion of Reserve and the Regular Battalion to which it shall be attached. By these means the passage from the one to the other is ren dered comparatively easy. But this ►s not all : as the affair at present stands, an Officer knows that as soon as he has brought any body of men to a certain degree of perfeEtion in discipline, he is in danger of losing them, and this feeling serves to deadrn the exertions of the Officer. It has also the bad effea of undermining, in some degree, the discipline of the men themselves, who know, that however dis agreeable they may tender themselves to theitOfficers, they have a power of engaging in another service. But if a connexion was established between two Bat talions, then there would be a perpetual transfer of Officers from one Battalion to another, and the Officer who brought forward any body of men to a high state of discipline, would have the hope that, by some fortunate vacancy, he could have the command of them, even after they had enlisted in the Regular Troops. This will form an incredible source of the very best Recruits for the Army. And another great advantage is, that the men would pass from one battalion to another with the experience of soldiers; and instead of serving under inexperi enced and raw Officers, they wil! have the benefit of being constantly under the eye of veterans, and of those tahoan they have been accustoime3 t o obey, and, the whole will be very much like the recruit ing of an old regiment - . One thcasand, therefore, of such troops, will he almost worth double their numhers, as they enter into the service not as new recruits, but as ready-made soldiers. I flatter myself, then, that by the plans I mean to propose, cot only the number of recruits for the Regular Army will be materially increas ed, bait that the quality of those recruits will be vastly superior to any that could he procured by other methods ; that the numbers of both our defen. sive and cfransive Force will be augmented, and its quality improved. SinCe then an accession is made to the improvement of the Recruits that must enter into the Regular ArMy, the degree of competition that must still remain, may be easily endured. If this competition can be narrowed, so much the bet. ter ; but at any rate, the advantages that must ac crue from this measure to the Regular Army, both in the number and quality of its Recruits, will more than counterbalance every unfavourable cir cumstance. Now, as to the mode of raising this Force, my idea is, that the numbers of the Militia should be gradually diminished, while the Army of Reserve shOuld be increased in the same praportio.o, to the number of about 6.1.,c00 ; and as to rte mode in which these should be raised, I should suppose that the most proper one would be by ballot. This, however, I would by no means propose to be con cloaca in the same manner as it Is now managed, but in a way that might, in its operation, % remove many of those difficulties with which it is t pre sent attended. It has been my endeavour te devise a plan which shOuld do away, as far as possible, those hardships which the ballot imposes on victuals aod on Parishes, in raising money to pro cure Substitutes,- and remove those inconveniences that arise from the competition of its Bounties with those for the Regular Army, and from the encou ragemet)t of crimeieg, - and abuses of a similar na ture. Now, Gentlemen very well know, that as the ballot stands at present, the largeness of the fi les, which are out of all proportion, produces two effects, both almost equally mischievous : the person who is drawn, in order to avoid the fine, endeavours to find a substitute, and pays a very high bounty for this purpose, which materially interferes with the recruiting of the Army. The same bad effeCts are produced by the interference of Clubs, into which people enter . in order to avoid the heavy personal hardship that might otherwise fall on the individual. These Clubs set no bounds to their bounties in recruiting for substitutes, and are even more disposed to pay exorbitant sums than the individuals. Both these circumstances increase the difficulty and - expellee of recruiting the Army. But in the ballot :Which mean to propose, I say, that the Bounty mutt be li mited. But it is not because I say so, that :his li mited Bounty is to be effedual ; I mean to e a:vide that by this limited Bounty men shall be focured for the Service. But I do not mean to advance, that the person ballotted for shall either provide a Substi tute for a given sum, or else. he compelled to serve personally. In case the ballotted man should not serve personally, I propose that he shall pay a mo derate fine, and if he should agree to serve personally, then that he shall have the same Bounty as would otherwise be given for a Substitute. . :hese means an action and re-aaion will be produced, and the effea of the ballot will be doubled. Mr. PITT concluded by moving, that this Bill should be committed this day fortnight. Mr. SecretarjYOßKE so far agreed with the Right lion. Gentleman, as to allow that, in the present instance, the principal objea to be attained was to increase, as far as was possible, the Regular Army ; but in that °Ned His Majesty's Ministers were as anxious as the Right Hon. Gentleman, however differently they might appear to think on the mode of accomplishing it. He also agreed with him in the great principle of recruiting the Army', that it was absolutely necessary to remove, as far as possible, any competition that would interfere with the recruiting for the .Regular Army. That this was the 'wish of GoVeroment, was evident by the very Bill which was now the objea of discussion ; the express object of which was to remove the co ape titian complained of; and it was on this account that His Majesty's Ministers wished to suspend the At my of Reserve Aft. It was allowed on all hands, that it was of the highest importance to increase the Dis poSable Force ; and it appeared to him, that nothing better had hitherto been suggested fur the accomplish ment of this objet, than the measure which Minis ters had proposed, of bringing over a certain number of the Irish Militia who had volunteered their ser vices for this Country, and who would certainly be able to liberate a considerable part of the Force which is now tied up to the purposes of mere Defence, and enable it to be applied to any purposes that the general interests of the Empire would make it most desirable for. He had heard with great pleasure, the Right Hon. Gentleman do. quently describing the advantages which might be derived from a Disposable Force, in enabling us to rescue the Continent of Europe from the French yoke of tyranny and oppression under which it now groans; he wished much that this Country might have a Disposable Force sufficient to enable it to inter fere, at least in proportion to its extent and its means, in delivering Europe from this slavery ; but at the same time that he agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman in those general positions, he did not see that any general ideas suggested by him, would be more likely to produce this effeet than the Bill now under consideration for suspending the Army of Re serve Act. Before this Bill was brought in, it was the custom to condemn the System of the Army of Reserve, on the ground that it interfered with the recruiting, and now that the Aft was proposed to be shapended, merely for the purpose of removing the competition complained of, there was still an oppo sition. It had been very much objected to the mea sure proposed by Ministers, that the mode of raising men by giving military rank to those who raise them, had been universally condemned by military men : to this he must reply, that the present mode of giving rank for men raised was materially different from the system last war. It was not now the plan to promote at once to the rank of Colonels those ho raised a certain number of men. it was merely the intention of Government to allow Officers to rise a step, by raising the number of men required of them «'ltllln the term of st:i montr.i, and if it should hap. pen - that they were not able within the six mouths to raise the number of men they had undertaken, to be no losers, but the recruits which they had raised were to be taken ofd their hands id the regular boun, ty, which was to be stipulated by law: As ro the plat; of the Right lion. Gentleman, and the use that he wished to make of the Army of Reserve, it-au;st. • be recolleled that that Army is now deficient by at least twelve thousand mei), of its proper cumple tnent; as long as the present system of balioning, and subscription clubs to indemnify persons drawn from serving, should continue, there would be first the dif ficulty of raising these le,oco men, under the pre sent system, before the system of the Right Hon. Gentleman had any operation. As the system at present stood, the soldiers of the Army of Reserve were ready to enter into the Regular Army : in Scotland, particularly, almost all the Battalions of Reserve had either joined the celebrated Highland Regiments,' the 4zii, and the gad, or else the Low_ land Cameronian Regiment, the zoth. • After a va riety of arguments, he concluded by saying, that it would have been much more regular. fur the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Purr) to have moved for a Bill embiwite these objects,, or. which he laid so much stress;, than to bring forward a Motion like the present. Mr. PITT explained. Mr. W HITB RE AD 111 a 'r.e Ri—ht Hon. Ge- tleman (Mr. Secretary Y0k.....L) had made some very important concessions in the discussion of this Motion. Le had confes.c.l ;hat a larger dispos:. 4 _l!c Force t'as necessary than what we now had, and chat it was a most principal objea for the consi. deration of the House, to-reinforce as rapidly as pos. sible, the Regular Army. He wished then that these objeds, which were universally acknowledged ne cessary; might be as speedily as possible carried into execution. He did not, however, approve of the mode which Ministers had taken ; they had not come forward in a manly way, with a measure openly professing the objeds which they had in view, but seemed perfedly contented by a sort cf side-wind to accomplish their purpose. This Bill appeared to him a Bill of false pretences Government pro- • lessed to wish only for raising men, but it ap— pared that it was the raising money which was their first objed, and that the men were to follow. But of all the concessions which had been made by the Right Hen. Gentleman, there was nothing which surprised him more than to hear him confess clog it might be proper to consider, at length, the various measures which were now proposed for increasing the defensive Force of the Country. He even thought, that it might be proper to bring in a Bill re , ptainge fat ther measures for the Defence of the Ce untry, ann yet it was the same Right Hon. Gentleman, who, two days ago, made a very elaborate speech against the appointment of a Committee for the very pore pose for which he now appeared to think it ne cessary—(A .loud cry of "- HeaP! Hear !" from all part! of the House .—Ministers now confessed that it was necessary to have a considerable .disposable Force ; he, too, allowed the necessity of a large dis posable Force, although he did not at all approve of such a Force being lodged in the hands 'of the pre. sent Ministers ; he did not approve of the appoint ment of Military Inspectors, which he thought would answer no purpo:ie, but creating places for those persons who were to be appointed to fi,l them. He knew from the experience he had in that part of the Country in which he resided (and every Mem ber had a right to mention his knowledge from local circumstances), that the great majority of those who were baliotted, paid the fine appointed by the law. It was on this account that he considered the mea sure, as it now stood, rather as a measure for raising money than for raising men. Considering, however, that the Army of Reserve might, under proper re gulations, be a permanent nursery for the Regular Army, he should oppose the SPEAKER'S leaving the• Chair. Mr. BRAGGE defended, at considerable length, the Bill brouglit in for Suspending the Army of Re serve. He could by no means allow that the present Bill, or the measures which had been proposed in con sequence of it, had at all for objeft to raise a sum of money : it was men that the Government wished to raise for the immediate Defence of the Country, and for procuring that disposable Force which it was al lowed on all hands was necessary for the exigencies of t h e time they had already broiight forward a plan for adding to the disposable Force, by accepting of the voluntary offers of Irish Militia Regiments ; they now proposed' to add to the force of the Country, no less than IS Regiments. The details of this plan were not now before the House, and might at a future time he more properly discussed. He thought that the mode of raising men by encouraging Of ficers to exert themselves for that purpose, and .giving them Promotion as a reward for their exer tions, was by no means liable to the objetlions which had been so strongly urged against it. He thought at least that the plan proposed by his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Secretary YoRK deserved a fair trial ; and that if either system was to be tried as . an experiment, it must at least be allowed :hat the plan of his Right Hon. Friend having been first brought in, and in part acted upon, deserved the pri ority as an experiment. Mr. FOX.—" Before I reply to what has passed upon the subjeEl immediately before us, I cannot but observe how singular it strikes me, Sir, that the Right Hon. Gentleman who opened this Debate, should have said not one word about those Clauses which he thought of such importance last Friday, as to require the House to postpone the considers.. tion of the Bill altogether, because he was not at that time in a sufficient state of readiness to bring them forward. This, Sir, I confess, does a gocd deal surprise me, and certainly remains for him to explain. Before I enter upon the question, whether or no it is expedient to put cif the Suspen sion of the Bill, in order to give time for the consi deration of the general plan proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.PrIT), I roust also observe,. that if what is now.stated of the operation of the. Army of Reserve MI be true, it is next to the Philo-, pher's stone, the most wonderful thing that ever was heard of. In the establishment of this Act, it did wonders ; in its Suspension it is to do the like ; and,• perhaps, in its repeal it will effect greater wonders still. At length it seems His Majesty's Ministers !Live found out that the high bounty offered under the ~ l AArm) , of Reserve Act, does a little intetl'ere the rzeruitirg of the Regular Army, for so ti's Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. BRAGGE) who just sa l down admits : I do not wish minutely to'bi nd either im or his Colleagues to any words that passed former Debates On this subjea, " sufficient for the day is the folly thereof ;" hut I must remark, in'" •I when in. a preceding discussion, this observation was made to diem, it was direfiiy and explicitly de" nied. They hitherto have constantly maintained that the Army of Reserve was no impediment to recruiting of the general Army ; and produced- know - know ,not how many accounts to prove the va lidity of their assertion. Now, if this really w'" the case; it is obviouseihe.Suspension they propos: , will, in tact and truth, etfenet nothing at all ; arid it the Suspension have no et - fea now, hitherto , would appear, the At ,itself must have been d little or no use. But let os attend a little to that argument, and heat how trey explain theselves. --- The Army of Reserve, they say, has produced great and beneficial effects ; but it is now worn out, 2 0 has exhausted ail its force.. What is it they me ° by this ? Is the Army of Reserve Aa to If considered as analogous ,to animal nature ? Is It like a horse, tor instance, that after lung lahn ° ' finds its strength and power decay It so, I p er ' feed; understand what they mean, when they s''Y all the force of the Army of Reserve Ad is exhau s t ed. I should rather, however, conceive this Ai ewoulrl fall with more tafth under a different and description- of lonioss ; Coo, fo r ee arniiie , (- to o uld bear a greats: '2ltlt)lar.oe to a puenr C)r well, which being exhaated, are of no further O c t ; not that the mechanism is rusty, or out of ottier', s l that it will not work, but the water itself, w h ' c : they hove been accustomed to draw, is entirely g °l 'l and completely used. What would be the natter step in such a case•? To stop the source of cons" (n d: - tion and let the water fl)mi in. But what do Majesty's Ministers Jo .They complain the F" U r tLe is exhausted, and yet they want it to be mor e i t r ) ; du ive—i A cry of" . !.fear! Hear ! Hear P i a stop this pump indeed, tke Army of Reserve' ci f immediately apply to :he same spring, an oth r l larger draught. The Army of R eserve Ad is "`'' Glared incapable of completing its -original-g u r °c o 'l ; which it has reached within a few thous:4.o4lst li or five, and yet, in: •rfitrig to theleviews of Ni nisters, its Suspero, to open-a-SOUICe to Stiro l o • I 8,000 men, on tears. 11-,r more unfavourable quantity o - of bounty and extent of' service. 1:111-, plan, according to them, is to restore the 11 /c' powers of the spring. _Tile-machinery is to vit,,c ll and the water flow. But, says, the:.Right Gentleman (Mr. Biinoe,E) who has just sat down , h e . ns consider the order of our proceeding. o ', l l 1 certainly have no objee'zion. According to I"tt mode we shall observe, that the• Army of Reserve Acri began with raising men for a limited service, at has almost unlimited price. Now, say Ministers, it bas done all it can, we have got 43,000 men ; its pow er are exhausted," and we can get to- alore• Let r; however, see, if by diminishing the bout - 1 1 Y , enlarging the set vices, we shall not be mo re s u cessful.? Now, in my apprehension, Sir, 1 1 °'; rl ' 1- % , can be more prepotteroos, and contrary to "14 perience, than thii proee-ss of Drier, so-coo c fiLie tha n appealed to. To minUs otherwise - cons ll ' — ii those of His Majesty'S Ministers, it vvo e-t hn ei the natural course of things, rather " ant with small bounty and enlarged services ; t hen when their effeds became u ne roduai ve l to enlarge the one nod limit the o ther. -0 ( to (h i ; stern, however, have gone exaalv contrarY th is mode, and set all experience and judgment on lot suojed at defiance. On what is it possible that they . can ground any hopes of success with resl',iy to this plan ? The Army of Reserve At has all' oa produced 13,000 men. Ministers have all alongr every occasion on which the subjea has been eliscittO ed, said that the Bill produced more men thao e ieo , have ben produced by any other method. Ho w t 1 ,0 and by what ii eons, when this most operativeis I t is suspended, are Coelr to get IS,OOO men ?'• irs by their new plan of g!-, , iug rank ? 111 ' 5 ill , any efil;a, it must be by a Corespond i° , ; crease of bounty, which they profess to i.,vl?"-..t what way can it otherwise - have anY and if that is resorted to, then that corrtl,ett Glees under another form, is introduced, en e_ think it so essential to the welfare of th e %ow ral service should be abolished. In flt,y we can any thing else he expected ? But, say " be ls ' forbid any additional bounty to be giv e ::•,,,,din' however, likely ; is it possible, that. 'Qt." eager or can be followed- by young n e are and ardent after rank, and who may- (110' ly accomplished their object? Wi t hin the tnn - ,r i z . a llow, six months only, many active and co(' tog young men may have nearly , t rot their quo' . it be supposed that they will let all the e x P enc for trouble they may have been-at become 14 no tt-:,la want of a few remaining men to make u p their go' jo j n Surely that conclusion ca never e nter into the (I . t t is of any one.Mini , :ers themselve s most know 01 not likely. It is rJetier to' be exped ed of cers will tollow the examp'oe of ara Hon. Fil en % ' 4 .ere mine, who gave soot. to men, half of which r •rejedeti. With temptations so strong , it i9 e t he culous to say we shall order them not t o increa.l cocc i bounty beyond the stipulated allowance. Ohen.oy is imisossibie• inconsistent and contrad 1305 to their own views and objeds, are the P ien o and measures they introduce. Till t his ninri tho when .hey propose to suspend its operation, have Army of Reserve Aft was always denied 1 ' for that effect on the .general recruiting servi'e op , which they now contend,. and on which ass ite o f ;inn fait, they have uniformly oßed, 'P ot . t he all admonition from us, untii this late perin d /4 „0. War. With regard to the plan of t he Righ.t Gentleman (Mr. i'll-r)• o n account whic h it , posed to deter the Suspension of the ArtnY o _,l, I c e serve Ad c- the Right Hoe. Gentleman, 11 il oo opened it with his usual ability, h as not ter )1 .0 , b so a b a t ) 1 , 1 nute will a , d v e h r e a n i t l'lctio the In wt conside ration of the Ho many par ts of; use. . v i t I stated, however, - I see c ` .l highly .approve, and perhaps some o f wlo . „o Such not think quite.‘o fav Ttirabiy• roder nisters themselves say it isAir to be c"" . „ce hp - some future occasion. If so, what pret ence 0 ,1,4 t suspc they to proceed t he r prestot 11.`11 --...........-