The Sun. — London, England, 1847-12-07 00:00:00

Were reduced to a condition which almost made them fit inmates for the workhouse. The lion. Member here read several extracts from the Irish newspapers, to show the prevalence of distress, together with an *Creased price of provisions. The Hon. and Learned Issember then alluded to some of the proceedings of • the Irish council, and said that he entirely dissented from the proposal of extending the income-tax to Ire- Land, which would, in effect, crush that country. However much the Irish Members were divided on other subjects, they concurred in thinking that no de pendence could be placed on the poor-law for the salvation of life in Ireland. Their representations Were met by the reports of Government officials, who had a direct interest in making favourable reports, and representing things ns better than they were. The memorial of the Irish hierarchy to the Queen ought to command attention from Ministers, and Convince them that something far different from a coercion Bill was needed. The Irish hierarchy had the full confidence of the people ; their representations *ere supported by the bulk of the Irish Members, who Were unanimous in declaring the poor-law insufficient, and in asking for some modification of the law of landlord and tenant. Every one knew that a great amount of capital had been hoarded, from the inabi lity of the tenants to employ it in the land ; this money had now been applied for the purposes of emi gration ; and its flowing out of the country could °ply be prevented by a measure establishing tenant right. Let parliament, while punishing the murderer, do justice to the innocent and protect the oppressed. l'rery past committee and commission had ascribed the evils of Ireland mainly to the insecurity of t enant-right. In the digest of Lord Devon's com- Mission the same fact was stated and deplored. It was to be regretted that, while every pamphlet Which maligned and misrepresented the country was eagerly laid hold of in England, and quoted on both sides of the house, the testimony of one disinter ested witness, an Englishman, Mr. Wiggins, had been entirely overlooked. That gentleman declared that the want of tenant -right was the monster grievance of Ireland. The same thing had been asserted on the bench by Chief Justice Pennefather. This fatal cause had been long in operation, and Would continue so, until Ireland was plunged in chaos and blood. In allusion to the unhappy victims of the recent murders in Ireland, he was bound to state, after the attempts that had been made to blacken the character of the peasantry, by representing the vic tims as men of the most humane and unimpeachable character, that in several of those unhappy cases there had been harsh treatment of the tenantry. The late kr. Roe was stated to have broken his word to a tenant. In proof of this the Hon. Member read a letter from a Mr. W. Loghlin ; also an extract from an Irish paper, charging ttie bailiff Hill with making an untimely distraint on a tenant named Quayle. The Right Hon. the Home Secretary having, in a speech of three hours, raked up everything he could to blacken the character of the peasantry, and to exhibit the crimes of those in low estate, he was bound to expose the crimes of those in a higher position. — (Rear.) The Hon. Member then read some further extracts, reflecting on landlords generally in severe terms, and stated that he had several others in his possession which he should refrain from reading, because his correspondent had stated that some Parts were perhaps too highly coloured. Government Ought to pass a coercion Bill, not for the peasantry, but for the landlords, for the sake of teaching them their real interests. In Ulster, where tenant-right Prevailed, the landlord was sure of his rent, and the Ulant was prosperous. The only objection to this Vater n was, that it prevented the consolidation of 'mall holdings ; but that was a light evil, as weighed a gainst the great good which resulted from the sys enl. He advocated no theory, but was con fid en t t hat a recognition of tenant-right would effectually atop the murderous proceedings that had recently taken place. To the present coercion Bill he objected in tote, because it was unaccompanied by measures of relief. As to its details, he objected to them because they made the Lord-Lieutenant a dictator, and gave ",; 1 11 a pow e r a b ove th e cons tit u ti on . Th e Ri g h t H on. Baronet who introduced the Bill had described it as elle of merely local application ; but the Lord-Lieu enant, if he chose, might enforce it in every county in Ireland. True, he was a good and humane man, but it was not prudent to invest him with powers so arbitrary and unlimited. Another objection Was that the Bill embraced the penalties of the White n's' Act, and made them applicable even where there teas no proof of outrage and murder, as required by the, Whiteboys' Act. The power_ of search was a dangerou s power, although given by this Bill only in %Mitigated form. As to the power to call upon the country to go in search of the murderer, he believed it would be utterly inefficient and inoperative. If the Bill did reach a Committee, which lie hoped it would 11 cat, he should have tobattle the several clauses which 't contained there, and he would not, therefore, at this state go further into detail. He called upon the Government to relieve the distress of Ireland—to be just to her—and thus to avoid the necessity of such tills. Ireland could not be crushed down into utter Misery without this country suffering also—nothing could prevent the poor of Ireland from seekin g refuge in England, and they w ou ld b r i ng f ever into this coun try, and throw the burden of their maintenance on its people. Again, he would ask what would be the stat e of Ireland in the event of this country being at War—how could rebellion be prevented there if justice Were denied ? Notwithstanding the wrongs of Ire land, the English people advocated this Bill—all the Papers of this country, with the exception of the Morning Chronicle, were hounding on the Govern ment to coercion ; but that paper, to its credit, was advocating a settlement of the differences between landlord and tenant. The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to defend the Irish priests from the charges which had b een, made a ga i ns t th em , an d d ec l are d t h a t b u t f or their exertions society would long ere this have been th e an end i n I re l an d. E ver s i nce t h e connex i on o f 'Be two countries Ireland had been oppressed, and Whenever, re li e f was g i ven it was meagre an d tardy. -r aighteen months had passed since the last coercion 1411 was proposed in that House, and not one measure Of justice had been adopted —not one single act of substantial kindness had been shown to Ireland, and 110 W they found the very men who had so nobly op- Posed coercion coming forward as its friends and axlvoc ates.—(Hear, hear.) l ar l i \ ir• POWER condemned a coercion Bill for Ire , (I, unaccompanied by remedial measures. He Wishedll t o see cr i me pu t d own b y th e s t rong arm o f e law, but he thought the existing law was amply sufficient for the purpose. If extraordinary powers W ere to b e crea t e d f or t h e purpose, h e i mp l ore d t h e overnm en t to look at the character of the men who tWould have to carry those powers into effect. Were e Y not the Irish landlords and magistrates, who ge i;erallY had been taught t o l oo k up on th e ir C e lti c ~r e thren as an i n f er i or race ? S ure l y t h ey were " ( a ngerou s persons to be entrusted with such autho -43r• The Hon. Gentleman then defended the Irish Vests from th e ca l umn i es w hi c h h e sa id h a d b een he aped upon them, and declared that they were active "1 thei r en d eavour to prevent crime, rather than to Ro man it. He pr ocee d e d t o con t en d th a t th e con stitutional Catholic r e li g i on was no t i ncompat ibl e w i t h ' in stitutional liberty, instancing Spain, Portugal, a Part of th e U n i ted States of America, and, finally, t he efforts of Pius IX. to give freedom to Italy, in Proof of the assertion. Mr. GRATTAN said he would support the mea sure of Government, b ecause h e t h ought the time had come when humanity required support in Ire and•—(Hear, hear.) He would support the Bill for the honour of the Irish nation, which was tarnished b y cowardly murders.—(Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend the Member for Limerick introduced a great deal that was irrelevant into the discussion. He talked of the want 'of assistance on the part of the Government to relieve the distress and misery of Ire land. That was all very right, but the present was not the time for that question.—(Hear, hear.) The f .kuestion of di s t ress h a d not hi ng to do with the ques tell of outrage and cr i me . A man starv i ng would Conte to ask for bread, but not to take away life.— (lear, ,hear.) If a man wanted to go to a relief r l u tnittee, he did not go w ith a p i s t o l or a blunder buss, but with a can f or hi s soup. H e thought that "Is Ron. Friend had taken away from himself all g r ound for o pp os iti on t o th e measure , b ecause h e di d O ot % support th e amen d men t p ro p ose d i n th e Add ress, the ground that the Right Hon. Gentleman, th e seer ground f or th e H ome D e p ar t men t, an d th e Ri g h t d n ourable G en tl eman th e S ec r e t ar y f o r I re l an d, i io iared that the people would be kept from starve- He saw very little coercion in the present Bill._ hear.) When compared with the toeasures of 1814, 1822, and 1835, it seemed to him a b be a mitig a t e d an d a w retched—he would not use the Bill he was going to support—(Laughter) --bu t he was surprised that his Hon. Friend did not t Z tne almost invisibility of the coercion it con- This• wo ne ,, could not be called an arms Bill, for it %h e ll ' Only affect those who would be likely to use i t 1 1 . 1 1 for the destruction of human life. He thought when a murder was committed, that the ~,,0 1 ,1 e should pursue t h e gu il ty part i es . B ut h e th e "id. go fu r th er than the Bill, for he would maks rn rich man go out in pursuit as well as the poor hear.) If a man had property he ar litt tollear, defend it, as was done by Lord de Freyne pe ' se. nir• Grace, who armed their tenants for that pur •h Hon. Friend alluded to many points nlent, deserved the serious attention of the Govern of th especially that which related to an amendment the hee.landlord and tenant law. The Noble Lord at A . 1 au of the Government declared, on the 2d of Were ar r te t 0 , 1; s 8 46 , that no person could contend that the between landlord and tenant in Ireland in a satisfactory state, and that such of the 3 °f the law as could be remedied by legislation O to ' thp, oe so remedied without delay, for, by so doing, *°lll n Ir e l a Iremove one of the great causes of crim e Which ought to (H be ea se r, t at res That was a u LordtNoble T~~L (lid not redeem his pledge, he would be prepared to join his Hon. Friend in a vote of censure on the Go vernment. He thought the appointment of the Devon Commission was most mischievous if the measures and recommendations it held forth were not realised.— (Hear, hear.) The lion. Gentleman then referred to the accusations which had been made against the Roman Catholic clergy, which lie pronounced to be unfounded and calumnious. He knew of instances where the clergymen of that church were most active in dissuading from crime ; and he could show some threatening notices which had been sent to Roman Catholic priests and even to Roman Catholic bishops. He hoped that the Lord-Lieutenant would not wait t'or the present measure, but that he would pour po lice into the disturbed districts, which he had the power of doing at present. The farmers of Ireland were themselves most anxious for this Bill.—(hear, hear.) He was prepared to meet those cowardly assassins, not by an order to prime and load, hut to present and fire.—(Laughter.) Those were the orders lie had given, and which enabled him to be there. He hart received notices, and this was the way lie would meet them. It was due to the honour of the country—it was their duty as men, as citizens, and as Christians, to support the present Bill.—(llear.) Sir G. GREY said he was glad he had given an oppartunity to the Hon. Member for Meath (who had risen at the same time with himself) to address the House, for his address had confirmed the opinion he (Sir G. Grey) entertained, namely, that it was almost unnecessary to appeal to the House to reject the motion of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. Ile felt a conviction that not only the majority of the House, but the majority of the Irish Members, would not lend themselves, he would not say to obstruct this Bill, but to obstruct the Government in reading this Bill a second time, in order that its provisions might be fully and promptly considered. He had risen only to express his earnest hope that gen tlemen would feel the importance of entering- upon a consideration of this measure with promptitude, and that they would not be led away by the speeches of the Honourable Member for Kilkenny and of the Honourable Member who seconded his motion into the wide field of discussion which they had opened; and to state now, that it was not because he did not feel the importance of the questions raised by the Honourable Member for Kilkenny—for he agreed with the Honourable Member for Meath, that many of those questions did deserve the consideration of the House—but because he thought they might be more conveniently considered upon other occasions —(Hear, hear)—that he asked the House to postpone the dis cussion of them now, and to allow the order of the day to be read, that the Bill might be discussed, in which stage of the proceedings he should be in a situation to address to the House a few observations in explanation of some of the provisions of the Bill, respecting which he had been misunderstood, and to remove some objections which had been made to the Bill. This, however, was not the stage in which he could enter into those explanations, and he should be only obstructing the business of the House if he were to lend himself to the discussion introduced by the Honourable Member for Kilkenny and accept his invitation. As to any feeling in this House or in this country against Ireland, he utterly denied it. —(Hear.) It was the wish of every Englishman that Ireland should be rich, happy, prosperous, and contented.—(Hear.) In England, indeed, there was a strong feeling against the unchecked progress of crime and assassination—a feeling entertained on both sides of the House ; and there was, he hoped, a readiness to give the Government and the Lord-Lieu tenant of Ireland the means of checking a dastardly system of secret assassination, which was a disgrace to any Christian country.—(Hear, hear.) He should not attempt to go into the proceedings of the last Parliament with reference to this subject. The Hon. Member had brought a serious charge against the last Government and the last Parliament—that party con siderations had prevented a due consideration of the affairs and the condition of Ireland. He (Sir G. Grey) would not enumerate the acts of benevolence done by the last Parliament, the acts of generosity arid of justice towards Ireland—for they were not only acts of generosity and benevolence, but of justice —he would not refer to the days, and weeks, and months which had been devoted to measures to miti gate the distress, and destitution, and permanently relieving the state of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) This was not, however, the occasion to defend the conduct of the Government towards that country ; if the llon. Member believed that the conduct of the Go vernment had been culpable, let him bring forward a motion fairly, and he (Sir G. Grey) would meet him in the same spirit; but let not a question as to the conduct of the Government towards Ireland in past times stand in the way of a measure necessary to meet a pressing evil, for at all events a measure was necessary to check the progress of crime and assassination. For this reason he should not say a word more now, but to entreat the House to proceed to the second reading of the 13i11.—(Hear, hear.) The question was then put; when, Mr. O'CONNOR rose and said, if he had the slightest notion that the adopting the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet would lead to the restora tion of peace and tranquillity in Ireland, he should be the last Member in the House to postpone the object he had in view for one moment. But he was of .pinion that the Right Hon. Baronet would not find himself the better for the aid of the lion. Member for Meath. It was an old saying—" Defend Inc from my friends." . It had been the misfortune of Ireland that there never had been unanimity in her councils. —(hear, hear.) Those who had undertaken to re present the distress, the grievances, and the situation of Ireland, never could agree amongst themselves as to the remedies.—(Hear, hear.) The Irish people, however, were more fortunate now than upon former occasions, for they had a more patient hearing.— (Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member for Meath had defended this Bill, but he had given only a poor and equivocal support to her Majesty's Government. The opponents of the Bill had at all events the de- Aaration of the Honourable Gentleman that he ex pected remedial measures before coercion. —(Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman's speech contained the strongest arguments against coercion The history of the world offered no example like that of Ireland, where a mil lion of suffering people had been prematurely con signed to the cold grave, and all this was borne with patience. Until those measures were tried which had been effectual in the cases cited by the Hon. Member fur Meath, and until the Government had tried the stringency of the ordinary law, this measure—he would not call it, with the Hon. Member for Meath, a poor, pitiful, and dirty measure, and no measure at all—ought not to be had recourse to. This measure would bring the ordinary law into disrepute ; he would show that this was the invariable result in all countries where the ordinary law was not exerted, and coercion was introduced ; and he would show that the Government and the Lord Lieutenant had not strained the ordinary law, nor even pushed it to its ordinary limits. The Attorney-General had been asked whether the Government could change the venue in Ireland • he (Mr. O'Connor) could t e ll th e [lon. and Learned Gentleman that the Government could change the venue. The Lord-Lieutenant had, moreover, the power of ordering a special com mission; he had the power of selecting his judges (a great power in England), and of appointing juries, and he had the power of resorting to the written evidence of the police when other evidence broke down; and all this by the ordinary law. It was the landlords of Ireland who were looking for this mea sure. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for 'Famworth had said, the other night, that he would hold no terms with assassins and murderers; that he would first establish tranquillity in Ireland. Whence were the seeds of these crimes ? The Right Hon. Baronet had himself indicated them, when he stated that he had bestowed 2,0001. in rewards upon men who gave evidence against offenders. Money thus given would have the effect of suborning evidence. Let the landlords of Ireland do their duty ; let them not suppose that they had only the property of their lands, and that there were no duties attached to those lands. A comparison had been made between Irish and English landlords, but they could not be com pared as a body ; good landlords were the exception in Ireland, whilst there was scarcely a bad landlord in :England. In Ireland the tenant was sub jected to the lolly, the impertinence, and the insolence of his landlord; whereas in England, even if the estate were sold, the tenant's rights were preserved. That was the reason why coercion was not required in England, and was required in Ireland. But as long as coercion Bills were obtained remedial mea sures would never be had. All crimes in Ireland were perpetuated by the had system prevailing there, whilst in England there was no inducement to agra rian crime. His only surprise was that Ireland was so quiet, so calm. Let the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir George Grey) prefer his indictment against Ireland ; but they . had not heard how the people of Ireland were mixed up with financial details. It appeared that the solicitor of the Provincial Bank of Ireland had put on the file this term no less than 800 declara tions on behalf of the bank. It was not because he thought the Bill too stringent, or that he dal not de sire to arrest the hand of the assassin, that he opposed this Bill ; he resisted it as a lawyer, upon principle and authority. The Hon. Member then read a long extract from the work of Beccaria on crimes and punishments, showing that disproportionate punish ments tended to make a people hard and insensible. After reading various passages from Montesquieu on the Spirit of Laws, and from Blackstone and Bentham, with a similar object, the Hon. Gentleman quoted an opinion of similar import from the work of Lord John Russell on the government and constitution of England, and then asked whether it was possible to • produce stronger proofs than these of the bad effects of even straining, much less setting aside, the ordi nary law ? He asked whether this was a time, when Ireland was likely to be a petitioner at their doors fir alms instead of bullets, and just after the people SUN, had witnessed the sacrifice of a million of their fel low-countrymen by famine, to meet them with a coercion Bill. He must say he was not astonished that Irele.nd should be a beggar at Britain's door, anti that that country should be always in a state of dis tress and disorganization, when he saw such men as the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grattan) come down to that House, as lie did on the debate on the Address, and as he had done now, and turn against his coun try, expressing reliance on the good intentions of a Government that had ever deceived them.—(hear.) If they were near the period of a general election, would that Hon. Gentleman act as he had done ? He would ask, if the people were moved to greater vengeance than they had yet shown, on whose head would lie the responsibility o f a ll the turmoils anti savage outrages that might occur? The responsi bility would rest on the originators of the Bill and those who supported them, if conciliatory and reme dial measures were not also introduced for the relief of the people. They had been told that the Irish people were very bountifully treated by the English Parliament, but that it would not interfere with Irish property. Was not the Tithe Bill an interference with the landlord's property ? And when they car• ried free trade, was not that also an interference with land ? And would they tell him that they • were afraid and were not competent to interfere with the raw material, when year after year, they were med dling with the produce of that land, and thus de • stroying the value of the raw material ?—(Hear.) The Irish landlord was a poor, proud fool, who would not engage in labour or in any course of industry by which his circumstances might be improved. Ireland was saddled with the law of primo geniture, and the people almost universally looked to the land for support, while they bad no manufactures. Hence, they found a poor but proud aristocracy looking to the bounty of Britain, instead of putting their own shoulders to the wheel, and endeavouring by industry or skill to work out their own salvation.—(Hear, hear.) They must not suppose that after sowing the seeds of evil for cen turies in Ireland they would be able to eradicate those evils at once, or to remove all the vices of the Irish character in a day. He would tell them that the vices of the Irish people were the consequence of misrule, while their virtues were the characteristics of their nature. They got credit in that House for generosity and for industry and honest exertions in any country of the globe but their own ; and why was this ? Because their tyrants, who ruled them with a rod of iron, would not allow them the fruits of their own labour. The moment a man became industrious in Ireland that moment he de stroyed his own prospects.—(Hear, hear.) As to the present Bill, he contended that its very mildness was a thing to be feared. He knew what large pro mises would be made as to the mild conduct of the Government, and how these promises would be acted upin. When weak the Whigs were always courting the people, but when strong they ever showed the intole rance of a coercive Government. He remembered when, instead of sending to an agricultural country a Lord-Lieutenant who would encourage the pursuits of an agricultural people, they sent Lord Normanby, who, sporting his regimentals, and with feathers fly ing, traversed the country like another Don Quixotte —(Laughter)—proclaiming everywhere a gaol de livery, overriding the ordinary law, and relieving from merited punishment the theives and felons who by that law had been imprisoned for their offences.— (hear, and laughter.) He remembered when all this was done to court popularity among the Irish people, and now they came down to that House for a coercion Bill, by which they might override the ordinary law once more.—(Hear, hear.) He condemned the Bill because it entrusted the law to the hands of an indi vidual, who, to whatever extent he might go in 'viola tion of the law, would be certain of indemnity from that House.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gen tleman the Home Secretary had read letters descrip tive of the state of Ireland; but he knew well how nefariously such letters, and the information conveyed in them, were got up by parties interested. He could relate to the House many instances to prove the base means resorted to for the purpose of misrepre senting and injuring, for interested purposes, the people of Ireland. In 1833, while professionally engaged at Clonakilty, he was thrown from his horse; and, while suffering under the injuries then received, was sent home by a friend in his gig. While so travelling, he fell into conversation with the servant who accompanied him; and this person told him, that at the time Whiteboyism was at its height he was living with a captain in the army ; that a major belonging to the same regiment was on a visit to his master; and that they, accompanied by two or three other persons, went out at night with their faces blackened, andC swore in the people in their neighbourhood to be Whiteboys, in order that they (the officers) might thereby get employment. lie (Mr. O'Connor) communicated this information to Lord Hatherton (then Mr. Littelton, and Chief Secretary for Ireland), and offered to bring forward the man as evidence, provided measures were taken for his protection, and the means given him of going to a foreign country, if necessary ; but he would not interfere in the case, because the parties concerned were gentlemen. After narrating one or two cases, to show that threatening letters were got up by the police and others in order that they might find employment, the Ho nourable Gentleman proceeded to condemn the lan guage tha.: had been used towards the Roman Catholic priests. To calumniate those priests was the greatest injury they could inflict upon the people of Ireland, because they were closely connected by blood, pur. suits, and religion, with the poor peasantry, and were always ready to aid and console them in any situation in which they could be placed. He would tell them that if they hoped to destroy the religion of the people of Ireland, or the influence which the priests enjoyed, no attempt could possibly be more hopeless.—(Hear, hear.) In 1822 the Right Hon. Member for Mont gomeryshire (Sir C. W. Wynn), who was then Pre sident of the Board of Control, paid a just tribute to the character of the Irish people. That Right Hon. (irentlernan said that, when he reflected on their mar.y admirable qualities, on their genius and intelligence, on their steady devotion to any cause which they heartily espoused, on their patience under privation and suffering, and on their generous hospitality, he could not but condemn that policy by which all these excellent qualities had been perverted, and all these gifts of nature and of Providence had been rendered the fruitful source of crime and bloodshed. But, not withstanding that opinion, Parliament passed a coer cion Bill for Ireland, and suspended the Habeas Corpus Act in that country. In passing any mea sures for ameliorating the condition of Ireland, it was necessary to enforce the rights of the people, or the landlords would take care to derive all the benefit. When the Legislature gave the landlords of Ireland 25 per cent. of the church property, did the tenants gain anything ? No ; the landlords pocketed the whole, and the wages of labour, instead of being raised, were reduced. Of the amount which had been recently granted for the relief of the Irish people, no less a sum than 350,0001. had been expended in patronage, while only 30,0001. had been advanced to landlords for the improvement of their estates. And why was this ? Because so many technical itn pediments were thrown in the way of granting such advances.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. O'Connor) was satisfied that they could not improve the condition of the labourers and farmers of Ireland without improv ing the condition of the landlords ; and how was this to be done ? Not by giving the landlords money, but by inducing them to make their estates worth money. He was ready to maintain, in spite of agriculturists, and of free-traders, and of political economists, that there was not an acre of land in England or in Ire land which was let at half its value; and that if a better system of agriculture were established, the value of the land would be very materially increased. The landlords of Ireland had managed their property according to the science of politics, instead of by the science of agriculture; and their great object had been to obtain bishoprics or commissions in the army for their sons, and good matches for their daughters, instead of endeavouring to improve their estates. In the good old times of the Hutchinsons and Beresfords, boys were down in the army list for promotion from the time of their birth ; and when he (Mr. O'Connor) was eleven years old, there were two lieutenants in his class at school.—(A laugh.) At that time the Beresfords got everything, and when Lord Cathcart visited the family, as he had seen a great many Be resfords in the army list, he requested to be intro duced to the young heroes ; and, after dinner, these instructions were given,—" When the lieutenant wakes let him come into the room ; when the captain wakes bring him down ; and when the colonel wakes put him on his regimentals, and bring him here."— (A laugh.) He (Mr. O'Connor) must say he was glad that the Honourable and Learned Member for Limerick (Mr. J. O'Connell) had seen the prudence and propriety of opposing the measure now before the House ; and he hoped the Hon. Gentlemen who usually acted with him (Mr. O'Connell) would adopt a similar course. He (Mr. O'Connor) had suffered much persecution, but he was willing to forgive the Government for their share in it if they were pre pared to redeem their pledges with regard to Ireland. The fact was, that the present was a Government of toleration ; and the best way to promote the welfare of Ireland would be by a combined action of the Irish Members and landlords, irrespective of politics, of classes, and of religious creeds. If those Gentle men boldly stood out for the rights of property (not only for the rights of the landlords, but also for the rights of the labourers), they would be too strong for the Government. He regretted that the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth was not in his place to night; for, if the Right Hon. Gentleman had been present, he (Mr. O'Connor) would have been glad to have given him some information on the subject of tenant-right; but, as that question was to be brought before the House by the Hon. Member for Rochdale, he (Mr. O'Connor) would abstain from commenting upon it at present. He begged, in conclusion a to assure LO/4 DUN, TUESDA Y EViisTING, DECEMBER 7 , 1847. the Right Hon. Secretary .for the Home Department that he (Mr. O'Connor) would oppose this Bill from the preamble to the last clause; he was determined to divide on every possible opportunity ; and, as a rea son for not passing the measure, he begged to call the attention of English Members to the position of the Hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. S. Crawford). That Hon. Gentleman, who had divided against this Bill, was one of the largest and best landlords in Ireland ; he sought for no coercion Bill to secure }Ain against his tenants' wrath ; he could walk over his estate by night and by day in safety, for which he fairly required his rent—he also performed his duty. If he (Mr. O'Connor) conscientiously believed that this Bill, or even one of a more severe character, would have the effect of repressing crime in Ireland, he would readily give it his support ; but it was be cause he understood the character, the condition, and the constitution of his countrymen better than the Right Hon. Home Secretary, that he had determined that this insidious measure should not go to the coun try—at least with the stamp of his (Mr. :)*Connor's) approval. He was determined to perform his duty ; but he begged to say, that if the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir G. Grey) thought proper to introduce efficient remedial measures with regard to Ireland, he (Mr. O'Connor) would have great pleasure in giving them that support to which he might consider they were entitled. Mr. D. BROWNE should support the second reading of this Bill, because it did not go too far, because the circumstances of the country required it, because it would affect only guilty parties in certain districts, and afford protection to respectable persons in the midst of a reign of terror. He also supported it because he believed it would be administered by the Lord-Lieutenant in a spirit of moderation and humanity. He supported it because ho believed that the majority of the people of Ireland had no sympathy with those crimes. He believed the majority of the people and the priesthood were anxious that these murders should be put an end to. He believed that the murderers were outcasts and traders in blood, and were not connected with the predial diffe rences between landlord and tenant. The murder of the Rev. Mr. Lloyd was a brutal, dastardly, and barbarous murder, and such atrocious murderers were a disgrace to Ireland ; and as he wished that the law should be vindicated he gave his vote for this measure. It might be said that this was an uncon stitutional Act; but it was more unconstitutional to leave the country at the mercy of a set of lawless marauders. He would give his vote for this Bill without reference to remedial measures, lest it should seem that he had the slightest sympathy with such crimes. The administration of the law in Ireland was most inefficiently carried on. The Crown pro secutors were often incapacitated from performing their duties by reason of age and infirmity. In Connaught the senior prosecutor had been ten years superannuated as an assistant barrister, and yet he continued Crown prosecutor. The late Mr. Ellis had been five years superannuated as Crown prosecutor, and yet continued an assistant barrister. In Con naught the Crown solicitor was so incapacitated by age and infirmity that he had not gone the last five circuits. Such was the inefficient manner in which the law was administered. He felt confident that, in trusting the powers contained in this measure to the Government, they would not abuse it. Mr. M. O'CONNELL said he held in his hand a book, entitled " An Account of the Debate on the Bill for the Protection of Life in Ireland, in 1846," edited by R. Dillon Browne, M.P. (The Hon. Gen. tleman then read extracts from the speeches of Mr. Dillon Browne on that debate, in opposition to that measure, and in which be advised that coercion should he given up and remedial measures tried.) The Hon. Member for Meath (Mr. H. Grattan), too, who had been one of the most strenuous opponents of the Coercion Bill of 1846, he regretted to find amongst the advocates of the present measure. Disguise it as they would, this Bill was as much an infringement of the constitution as that proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, and which the Noble Lord now at the head of the Government said he would never consent to, unless it was accompanied by remedial measures. On the same ground put forward by the Noble Lord in 1846, as against the Arms Bill of the Right Hon. Baronet—the absence of remedial measures—did he (Mr. M. O'Connell) oppose the Bill now before the House. It was all very well to refer to the condi tion of society in Ireland, and point to the calendar of crime as a justification for such a Bill ; but how did they expect human nature to endure patiently , the tyranny to which the Irish tenantry were sub ject, driven from their holdings, without food or shelter, prevented from reaping the crops they had sown, and deprived of all the advantages of their outlay and labour ? Try the experiment in England, and see what would be the consequence.—(Hear, hear.) He gathered from the reply of the Right lion. the Home Secretary to the suggestion of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), that a detective police was about to be organized in Ireland. What was this but a return to the old spy system, with all its attendant horrors, its perjuries, robberies, and murders ? How many instances were there in former days of innocent men being entrapped into the com mission of crime, and then informed against for the sake of the blood-money ? In no country save Ire land would such a system be tolerated. It had been practised in 1798 under the notorious Major Sirr, aided by the infamous Terry O'Brien, and yet in these days it was sought to legalise perjury by Act or Parliament. Notwithstanding the determination ex pressed by some Irish Members to support this Bill, he for one should give it the most determined opposi• tion in every stage of its progress. He had been as earnest and as anxious as any man in denouncing ever revere laid crime, and h e h a d not only preached but pract i se d obedience to th e l aw. He had endeavoured to e h n e fo m rc u e st maxima a d n o d w n venerate, by one enemy of I re l an d was the man who violate d the law. He wou ld not parley with the murderer, but he would s t ra i n the ordinary l aw of the land, in that whose the m e worst ory order to secure his punishment ; but he protested against arming irresponsible parties with extraordi nary powers to do that which might . be done by the smallest particle of resolution and courage on the part of the resident landlords in the counties which were said to be disturbed, and _which would be put down by the tenantry if the landlords gave them the slightest encouragement so to do. But he found fault with this Bill on another ground, namely, that it was entirely and exclusevel a landlord's Bill. — (Hear.) Bill It wa s not a Y for the protection of the lives and property of the people, but for the protec tion of magistrates, who would not do their duty , and to enable the landlords to collect their rents. He had expected after the numerous commissions of inquiry which had been issued by various Govern ments, that at the commencement of this session the present Ministry would at least be prepared with some remedial measures for Ireland. lie understood that the Landlord and Tenant Bill was :ictually in print, and, being so' it ought now to be on the table of the House. It was, however, kept back, and not a word of explanation as to its provisions had yet been stated to the House. In fact, nothing whatever had been done to carry out any of the recommendations contained in the report under Lord Devon's Co mmission. —(Cries of " Divide.") One of those reco mmendations was, to lessen the burdens on the l an d , and yet, by the operations of this Bill those burd ens would e increased by fixing on the land the charge of the extra police employed at the will and pleasure of the Lord. Lieutenant. Hon. Members opposite had spoken of certain state ments alleged to have been by made Roman Catholic clergymen from the altar, but the Attorney-General had very properly told them that wherever such charges could be authenticated prosecution would follow. With respect to the denunciation of Major Mahon, the clergyman implicated had himself denied in print that he had ever mentioned that gentleman's name or that he knew anything about him. What would the House think of an English landlord, who, coming into a property, should commence with a small village at his park gate, and take from the in habitants their little gardens, from which they had obtained their winter's subsistence ? The Honourable Member proceeded to detail other instances of Major Alahon's conduct towards his tenants, but was con tinually interrupted by loud cri es of " Question." He complained that the deceased gentleman had sent a number of his tenants on board ship, bound to America, but the vessel being wrecked, the people were obliged to return, when, sick, starving, and shipwrecked as they were, they were left on the road without shelter to perish. Until the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had laid his remedial measures on the table, the House might expect that he (Mr. O'Connell) would give this Coercion Bill every opposition in his power. Mr. GARDNER gave a reluct ant support to the Bill. He was not one of those who would vindicate murder, or who did not wish to see it punished, but he could not help having some compunctiou s visitings when he remembered the gross ill-usage which Ire land had experienced at the hands of this country._ (Hear, hear.) He regretted, therefore, that the Right Hon. Gentleman while proposing coercion had not more clearly indicated the remedial measures he proposed to introduce for the benefit of the sister country. Ile was not one of those who thought that Providence had endowed one race more than another with instincts of crime and indolence. He was will ing to admit the defects of the Irish character, but he was inclined to attribute them, not to the providence of God, but to the misgovernment and tyranny of m an ._ (Hear, hear.) Th a t country had for 600 years been under the dominion of what an eminent foreign aristocracy. publicist had called a bad Pure manufacturers, blood, no mill-owners or m to g rind the people, no thing but lords, squires, and serfs. added; an alien priesthood To these England had and in her superstition had shut out every avenue of advancement from the gr eat body of the people. f all this oppression— The outward and visible sign o the Protestant Estabhihed Church—Still (Suited in full vigour.—(Hear.) He did not think its abolition would remedy the ills of Ireland, but it was at least due to that country as reparation. Probably no single measure would have the effect of redressing all the evils of that country; lout we ought to undo all our bad legislation, step by step. So long as a splen did public property, amounting to a million per annum, existed in Ireland, devoted to the support of a church alien to the sentiments of nine-ternths of the people, private property ought not to he burdened with rates for the support of the indigent. He would never consent to any measure of coercion for Ireland, unless remedial measures were brought forward at the same time.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. KEATING said that the Irish Catholic priesthood, so far from exciting the people to outrage, exerted a directly opposite influence. In proOf of this he referred to the conduct and addresses of the curate in the parish where Mr. Roe had been mur dered. He was opposed to this Bill, because it would not tend to tranquillise the country : it would be a complete failure.—(Hear.) Such a measure never could succeed. It had in it no element of success. Mr. FAGAN moved the adjournment of the debate. Sir G. GREY hoped this motion would not be pressed. There would be abundant opportunity, in the future stages of the Bill, for Hon. Members to express their views. Great inconvenience had re sulted from discussing the principle and details of the Bill upon a mere motion of form for passing to the other orders of the day. Mr. FAGAN thought it was not fair to urge him to proceed in addressing the House at so late an hour. He had no wish to be supposed facetious in taking this course. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the adjournment . lB Against it 289 Majority —271 Sir G. GREY said he hoped the order of the day would be allowed to be read, upon the understanding that the second reading of the Bill should be taken on another night. Mr. F. O'CONNOR then moved the adjournment of the House, and Mr. M. O'CONNELL having seconded the motion, the gallery was cleared for a division ; but on our re-admission we found that the proposition of Sir G. Grey had been agreed to. The House then adjourned at Half-past Twelve. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.) MONDAY, LW. 6. CRIME AND OUTRAGE (IRELAND) BILL. Motion made, and Question proposed, " That the Order of the Day for the Secoad Reading of the Bill' for the better Prevention of Crime and Outrage in certain parte of Ireland," be now read :"—Amendment proposed, to leave out from the words " That the" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words " other Order of the Day be now read," in stead thereof :—Question proposed, " That the words pro posed to be left out stand part of the Question:—Debate arising, Motion made, and Question put, " That the Debate be now adjourned." The House divided;— MINORITY-AYES, 18. Anstey, Thomas C. O'Brien, Timothy Reynold., Jonh Callaghan, D.' O'Connell,..lohn R•che, E. B. Devereux, J. T. O'Connell, M. J. Scholetield, William Greene, Captain O'Connor, Feargus . Scully, Francis Keating, Robert O'Flaherty, Anthony TELLERS. Meagher, Thomas rower, Dr. Fagan, William Morgan, 11. K. G. Power, Nicholas O'Connell, Maurice MAJORITY-NOES, 289. Acton, Colonel FfoMelt, J. Mowatt, Francis Adair, Hugh E. Nitspatrick, J W. Neeld, Joseph Adair, R. Shafto Fitzwilliam, G. W Newdegatc, C. N. Aglionby, H. A. Foley, John H. Newport, Viscount Anderson, Arthur Forbes, W. Noel, Gerald J. Anson, Colonel Fordyce, A. D. Nugent, ttir Percy Arkwright, G. Forster, Mathew O'Brien, Sir Lucius Bagehaw, John Fortescue, Chichester Ossulston, Lord !Seines, M. T. Fortescue, J. W. Paget, Lord A. Beldock, E. 11. Fox, Richard M. Paget, Lord Clarence Baring, I'. T. Freestun, Colonel Palmer, Robert Baring, Thomas Gardner, J. D. Palmer, Roundel' Barnard, E. G. Gibson, T. M. Parker, John Bateson, Thomas Glyn, George Carr Patten, J. W. Bellew, it. M. Godson, R. Pearson, Charles Bennet, P. Goulburn, Henry Peel, Colonel lieresford, William Gower, Le'resell Perfect, Robert Berkeley, Captain Grace, 0. D. J. Pigott, Francis Berkeley, Grantley Graham, Sir James Pilkington, James Bernal, Ralph Grattan, Henry Pinney, W. Bernard, Viscount Greene Thomas Plumptre, J. P. Birch, sir Thomas Gregson, Samuel Plowden, W. H. Illackall, S. W. Grenfel , Charles W. Raphael, Alexander Blake, M. J. Grey, Sir G. Itawdon, Colonel Rolling, William Grey, Ralph W. Renton, John C. Bourke, Richard S. Grogan, E. Repton, G. W. J. Bouverie, E. P. Guinness, R. S. Ricardo, J. L. Bowles, Admiral Gwyn, liowel Ricardo, Osman liowring, Dr. Haggitt, F. R. Itich,i,llenry iloyd,:John Hale, It. B. Romilly, John liremridge, Richard Belford, Sir 11. Russell, F. C. 11. Bright, John Hall, iiir:ll. Sadleir, John lirisco, M. Halsey, T.l'. St. George, Chris. Broadley, 11. Hamilton, G. A. Salwey, Colonel Broadwood, H. Hamilton, J. H. Sandars, George Brockman, H. D. Hardca.stle, J. A. Scrope, G. P. rsrooke, Lord Ilastie, Alexander Seaham, Viscount Brotherton, Joseph Ilastie, Archibald Seymour, Lord Browne, W. Mayes, Sir E. Shell, R. L. Browne, R. 1). Ilayter, W. G. Sibthorp, Colonel Bruce, Lord E. Headlam, T. E. Simeon, John Buller, Charles Heald, James Slaney, Robert A. Piibury, W. Henley, J. W. Smith, V. Bunbury, Edward Herbert, lieu] A. Smith, M. Tucker Burke, Sir Thomas Ilervey, Lord A. Smith, John B. turroughes, H. N. Heywood, James Smyth, John G. Busfeild, W. Hodges, T. Twisden Smythe, G. Campbell, NV. F. Hodgson, W. N. Somerton,. Viscount Wardwell, Edward Hood, sir A. Somerville, Sir W. Carew, W. I'. Hope, Sir J. Stafford, Augustus Carter, John B. Hep, , , Henry T. Stanley, E, J. Castlereagh, Vise. llotharn, Lord Stanley, Edward Caulfield, Colonel Howard, C W.G. Staunton, Sir G. Cavendish, C. C. Howard, E. G. Sinai, Edward Cayley, Edward A. Inglis, Sir R. 11. Stuart, Lord D. Chichester, Lord J. Jermyn, Earl Stuart, Lord J. Clay, James Jervis, Sir John Start, Henry G. Clay, Sir W. ,Jervis, John Sutton, Henry Clements, Charles JOlleii, Sir W. Tslfourd, sergeant Clerk Sir G. Keogh, William Taylor, Thomas E. Clifford, Henry M. Keppel, George T. Tenison, E. K. Clive, Vise. Ker, Richard Tennent, .J. Cobden, R. King, Peter Jelin Thicknesse, R. A. Cockburn, Alex. Labouchcre, Henry Thompson, Colonel Cocks, 'lhomas S. Lascelles, E. Thoruely, T. Cole, 11. A. Law, C. E. Tollemache, John Colebrook*, Sir T. Lemon, Sir Charles Towneley, John Coles, Henry B. Lennox, Lor k A. Townley, It. G. Cowper, W. F. Lennox, Lord H. G. Trelawny, J. S. Craig, W. G. Lewis, 'Sir T. Turner, George Darner, Colonel Lewis, George C. Vane, Lord H. Davio, - „Sir Henry Lincoln, Earl of Verner, Sir W. Davies, D. A. S. Lindsay, Colonel 'Verney Sir H. Dawson, T. V. Littleton, E. E. Villiers, Charles Deedes, W. Lockhart, W. Vivian, J. H. Deering, Joha P. Macnamara, Major Vyse, It. 11. R. H. ' Denison J. H. M'Gregor, John Walmsley, Sir J. Dodd, G. IPNaghten, Sir E. Walter, John Drummond, H. Mahon, O'Gorman Ward, 11. G. Duckworth, Sir J. Maitland, T. Watkins, Colonel Duff, George S. Mangles, It. _D. Wawa, J T. Dun, James Marshall, J. G. West, F. R. Duke, Sir James Martin, Samuel Weethead, J. P. Duncan, George Matheson, Alex. Willcox, Brodie Dutidas, Admiral Matheson, Colonel Williams, John Dundas, Sir David Maule, Fox Willoughby, Sir H. Dundas, George Maxwell, Hon. J. I'. Wilson, 3tattliess* Dunne, Francis P. Melgund, Viscount , Wodehouse, E. Du Pre, C. G 3teux, Sir Henry Wood, Sir Charles Ebrington, Viscount Miles, P. W. S. Wood, W. I'. Elliot, John T. Mitchell, T. A. Wyld, James Enfield, Lerd Moffatt, George Wyvill, Marmadnke Evans, John Molesworth, Sir W. Yorke, H. R. Evans, William Monsell, William Young, John Ewart, William Moore, George 11. TELLELB. Farrer, James Morpeth, Viscount Hill, Lord M. Ferguson, Sir R. Morison, General Tuthell, Henry DREADFUL GALES AND LOSS OF LIFE. DOTER, MONDAY NOON.—For the last forty-eight hours wo have experienced a most terrific gale. It has not been equalled off this part of the coast for several years, and the wrecks and loss of life it has occasioned off Deal, Dungeness, and other places southward of this port, have been truly dreadful. Amongst the most deplorable was one that occurred on the Goodwin Sands. At daybreak yesterday (Sunday) morning the people on the look-out reported a vessel ashore on the " Goodwin," but her condition they were unable to dis cern owing to the violence of the weather and the great sea on. Several luggers managed to put off, and upon nearing the spot a melancholy wreck presented itself. The vessel, evidently timber laden, was partly buried in the sands, with her foremast standing, and to get at her was perfectly impossible. A formidable sea was beating over her with awtul violence, and tearing the vessel to pieces. The boats endeavoured to obtain her name and port, but failed. Before the boats left her destruction was complete; all had been swallowed up; not a vestige re mained. Her crew, it is feared, all perished. By ap pearance the ill-fated vessel was a foreigner. There were isetween twenty and thirty vessels in the roads during the gale; some fortunately kept a safe anchor age; others lost both anchors, and escaped injury by running out to sea. Another fatal wreck, we regret to say, took place in the course of Saturday night, in Pevensey Bay, near Hastings. The unfortunate ship was the Addolorata, of and from Naples, which had sailed from the Thames on the Thursday previous with a miscellaneous cargo. In the height of the gale she became unmanageable, and drove ashore. Nine of the crew perished, and three men and a boy came ashore on a raft and were saved. The vessel and cargo are completely lost, and the former has gone to pieces. At Shoreham the gale was severely felt. At one period it almost could be said to have raged with the violence of a hurricane, and serious apprehensions were entertained for the safety of the shipping in the district. To the northward of the Nore several losses are reported. About seven o'clock on Sunday morning the master of the Diligence, belonging to Brightensea, near Wivenhoe, described two vessels to have foundered in the Swin, about half a mile from each other, on the south side of the Gunteet, midway between the beacon and the south-west buoy; one to all appear ance was a large, and the other a three muted vessel. Farther northward on the Ganfleet were wrecked two other vessels—namely, the Albion, from Sunder:and, and the Bridgeholm ; both crews were saved. The above is but a very brief statement of the casualties that have been communicated to us. A heavy gale is still blowing from the S.S.W. STEEPLE-CHASE AT KELSO.—A steeple-chase came off on Saturday last over the farms of Bartichill and Eccles Newtown (two miles of fair hunting country). The ground was marked out by Messrs. John Dove and T. Penny. The following gentlemen entered and started:—Mr. Verschoyle's ch m Gypsy, Mr. Smedley's b m Bradfield, Mr. Bradford's b g Mud Student, Mr. Midgley's br g Jack Sheppard, Mr. lieweitt's b m Georgina, Mr. Daniel's br g Callender. At starting Mr. Verschoyle went off with a strong lead, which he kept up to the artificial timber in front of Mr. Dore's house, when he and Mr. Daniel, who kept close up to y st w ee i p n l n e e - r c . has M e r. o V n e a rsc l h a o r l e e r him, and Mr.gleweitt's mare, ridden by Mr, Robert Brodie took it beautifully, and led over the next two fences, after ce caem ee, tino which tsaekc so he nd place ; w t a h s challen ge d l e e mr n so i n e tdohwbhoyie Mr. nowhere. b mt, , . n h t o s p ar a e ss b e e d i , ng an m d a c d a e me for in an a o n th e e a r s in ruA:ryrdagunlege:e NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. PLYMOUTH, DEC. 4.—Arrived the merchant brig Po mona, of Sunderland, Captain Smith, from Alexandria, with beans, for Messrs. Fox, Sons, and Co., here. She cxperienct d a severe hurricane in lat. 47 N., lon. 9 W., on Saturday, the 27th ult., at eight r.m., when the vessel was struck by a tremendous sea, which carried away the greater portion of her bulwarks and rails, tuainboom and gaff, with tryiail stowed, steering sails, boats, spars, water casks, round-house, &c., threw her on her beam ends, sprung the mainmast head, and caused her to leak, broke the steering wheel to pieces, and un fortunately washed overboard the helmsman, John Manuel Collis, a native of Evrington, Devonshire, but last from Prince Edward's Island. Also, the brig Sep tima, of Sunderland, Captain Barrass, from Alexandria, for orders. When lying near the Pomona in the same gale she was struck by a heavy sea, which took away her bulwarks and boats, and swept her decks. The merchant brig Bagshaw, of Sunderland, Captain Hobbs, from Odessa, with linseed, for orders, came in to-day. On Sunday, the 28th ult., she experienced a very heavy gale, which damaged her bulwarks, broke her wheel, and washed overboard the helmsman, David Luce, a native of Cornwall. PORTSMOCTir, DEC. s.—Tho following are the ap pointments of the past week:— Captains--W. B. Mends, to the Caledonia, vice Manley Hall Dixon, whose term of service has expired; Brunswick Popham, to the Inconstant. Commander—Grey Skipworth, to the Hydra. Lieutenants—W. K. G. Palliser, to the Gladiator; F. 11. Lambert, to the Hibernia; N. G. Spencer, to the President ; F. A. B. Crawford, T. M. Jackson, and F. H. Stevens, to the Inconstant; J. M. Boxer, to the Vindictive; J. Carter, to the Poictiers; J. Davis, to the Coast Guard. Masters—Robert C. Allen, a most scientific officer removed from the Terrible steam-frigate to the Fisgard at Woolwich, as an assistant to Captain Austen in the inspection of the steam machinery department of the navy; J. Stokes, to the Volage; J. S. Pritchard, to the Coast Guard; It. 0. Stuart (acting), to the Inconstant. Surgeon—H. Jameson, to the Victory. Paymasters and Pursers—K. L. Sutherland, to the Inconstant; C. D. Gourd, to the Fisgard. Second Masters—H. Martin, to the Plover; W. G. Sturgess, to the Bonetta; J. G. Dathan, to the Firefly. Naval Instructor—E. B. Barnes, to the Meander. Assistant-Surgeons—W. E. Hambly, to the Vindic tive ; J. Lugton, to the Firefly; K. F. Williams, to the Blenheim; W. M. Saunders, J. C. Inglis, W. Patrick, and Dr. M'Evven, to the Victory. Clerks—W. 11. Thompson, to the Cygnet; G. A. Hansard, to the Acheron; D. F. Little, in charge, to the Plover; J. M. Jefferson, in charge, to the Firefly; A. Arlington, in charge, to the Bonetta; C. C. Cart wright, to the Blenheim; A. Thompson, to the Vernon; W. Crealock, to the Meander; W. W. Evans, to the Howe; R. T. Baynes, to the Inconstant. Midshipmen—W. F. Turton, to the Hibernia; S. B. Leggett, to the Bonetta; F. Hardy, to the Cygnet; C. Blake, to the Vanguard; W. F. Buxton, to the Queen; Hon. F. D. Stuart Wortley, to the Eurydice; C. C. Gascoyne, to the Brilliant; J. D. Murray and Mr. J. Parks, to the Excellent; T. Thompson, to the Terrible; G. F. Paget, to the Acheron; E. B. Foster, to the Inconstant. Naval Cadets —J. Irvine, to the St. Vincent ; Hon. G. Egerton, to the Vernon; Charles E. Noyes and W. T. F. W. Mudge, to the Inconstant ; H. J. Marshall, to the Queen; F. R. Doughty, to the Rodney; A. C. Adams, to the Trafalgar. Masters' Assistants—C. F. Cooper, to the Penelope ; C. C. Scott, to the Victory; G. Polglaze, to the Bonetta ; C. Downward and A. Wilde, to the Firefly; A. J. Dewar, to the San Josef. Mr. Henry Robertson, of the firm of Shaw, Maxwell, and Co., of London and Manchester, is appoinied freight agent to Rear-Admiral Phipps Hornby, C. 8., the new Commander-in-Chief in the Pacific. Tho mercantile community will therefore know where to apply for infor mation respecting their remittances in specie from the above quarter. FLANDERS MAIL. Motormen, Nov. 30.—Unusually little business was transacted to-day. Exchange upon London fell one-half per cent. The state of the money market continues unchanged, although the money market has on the whole been better supplied this week, yet exchange was not so good. The tighter exchanges on London did not encourage to greater transactions. The suspension of payment of several houses in England, France, and Hol land, and of one in Prague, cannot fail to be of unfavourable influence, though they may not affect indirectly except perhaps in the case of the latter house, in which some of our merchants are involved to the amount of about 120,000 to 130,000 marks bunco; it is generally supposed that this house will compromise with its creditors. Our market presents a very inactive appearance; some sales are made, but there is no activity and a general appearance of disinclination to business. This is un usual at this • season, and it can be attributed only to the state of things abroad, especially in Eng land. The latest status of the Bank of England, how ever, presented an improved appearance ; large sums in gold have arrived and others are expected, yet thoughtful men do not speak of the crisis by any means as if it were already past; indeed, we should rather imply that they are in that critical state which will require the inter vention of Parliament. It appears to us here, that an internal reaction can only take place with the reflux of the value of the capital which has been so lavishly sent ever the whole earth; for, notwithstanding the great opi nion we have of the immense wealth of Great Britain, it is an indubitable tact that it was inadequate to the ex travagant trade and the immense technical undertakintss, and this return of the value of the capital will take place but slowly. The following are the liabilities of some of the houses alluded to.—Lackerstein and Co., London, E. 1. mer chants, 100,0001.; J. and IL lit ap, London, wine Mei • chants, •20,0001.; Union Bank, Madrid, amount unknown; Kiewit and Laigeveld, Rotterdam, rice dealt rs, moult! unknown; A. Rouflaer and Zoon, Rotterdam, general merchants, amount unknown; F. Richter, Prague, cotton spinners, 500.000 fl.; Bonaffe and Co., Hasse, American merchants, 2,000,000 fr.; J. J. Guimaraens de Silva, Rio Janeiro, coflee merchants, 103 contos de rios. BELGIUM, DEC. 4.—The two commercial failures which have taken place at Mons exercise a melancholy influence in the department of Charleroi—the anxiety which is felt at Mons by the failure of M. Hennekiene is felt also by our merchants, and we can no longer con teal from ourselves or others that painful things are likely to ensue, though, as usual, they are now exagge rated. Two houses have already stopped payment. The project has been submitted to the Bank of Belgium to till up the blanks, which the withdrawal of the house of Ilennekinne will occasion here. This measure is highly approved of by our merchants and traders. ANTWERP, Nov. 4.—The state of trade is not pre cisely similar to what it was last week ; that great stag nation has disappeared, though we cannot say there is any great activity. BRUSSELS, DEC. 4.—THE CIIAMBERS. — It is ClffirMe'l that a petition has been sent into the Chambers, de manding the expulsion of the Jesuits; it is signed by Gressin Dumontin, the editor of the Precurseur. The presentation of the petition has, it is said, been adjourned fur the present. A report is in circulation in the political saloons of Brussels, that M. Veydt, whose health is delicate, is about to renounce his post, which will be taken by M. Frire-Orban, who will cede his over to M. Roussel, re presentative of Mons. M. Veydt will have the govern ment of East Flanders. RETIREMENT OF THE BAVARIAN MINISTRY.—The Gazette de Cologne announces that the Bavarian Ministry is about to retire; this Cabinet we must remember is of recent date that it consented to replace a Ministry, which thought itself obliged to oppose the requirements of the favourite. Prince Attengen Wallerstein and M. Bercks, councillor of state, are charged with consti tuting a liberal administration. The Chambers of Baden arc to be convoked for the 7th. Opposition is in progress in the kingdom of Hanover. In the country the elections are hostile to the Govern ment, to which they have hitherto been favourable. A letter from Trieste states that, during a fearful tempest along the coast of Greece, twenty-two merchant vessels hare made shipwreck. Nothing is said of the fate of the passengers or crew.—Brussels Papers, Dec. 5. AUSTRIAN FUNDS.—VIENNA, N.Y. 27. b per Cent. Metalliques . • • • •• • • • • • • • • 105% 4 per Cent. ditt0...... • . • • •• •• • • •• 92 3 per Cent. ditto • • • • • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • Loan, 1834 • • . • • • • • • • • • • • •• ............ 157 Ditto, 1839 120% Esterhazy's Loan RAILWAYS. The Northern, allYerdinand • 157 st; Gloggnttz •• • • ••_••1 •••••• • • • . • ••• • • • 112 Vi enna —Milan • • • • • • • • • • • • 93 tq 82% Apeunmen .......... „ 94% PRUSSIAN FUNDS.—Bnius, DEC. 2. oney. St.Schuld Sch., 3% per Cent • .• •• •••••• •• 92 nis, Ml% ems. English Bonds, 18 30 , 4 per Cent ••• • • • -_ Foreign Exchanges— • • • • • • • " • 7 Exchange on London, £1 Sterling, 3 Months 6 2 % BELGIAN FUNDS. —Burgess, DEC. 4. Actual Debt, 2% per Cent •••• • • • • "' • Rothschlld's Loan, Five per Cent •••• •• • • _ Loan of Thirty Millions, FourporCent:: Ditto Three per Cent • • • • • • • Ditto Thirty-seven Millions, • • • Ditto,ditto,lB 4o. • •• ••"• • •• • • • Ditto,ditto, lB42. • • • • • •• • • • • • • •• • • •••• • • • • Ditto, 18 36 .• • • • • • ' • Ditto of the City. 1832 •• • ..... .... • . • 92 Ditto, 1843 .• • • • • " B an k of Belgium •••• • • ••••••••• • • • • • • •• 111 _Brussels raven!, Dec. 4. CHLOROFORM, TU E ANNATURTIC AGENT.—On Th u rsday last, the 2d instant, Richard Holgate, of High Easter, carpenter, aged nineteen years, was operated on for extensive disease of the hand. Perfect insensibility to external impressions or painlessness was produced in about three minutes; the vapourisation of the chloroform was assisted by heat. A considerable portion of tii hand was then removed, the operation being skilfully performed by Mr. Parett, surgeon, of High Easter, in the presence of Mr. Coventry, surgeon, of Hatfield Broad Oak. When the operation had been completed the patient said, " he had made up his mind, and the surgeon might commence." The case presented a striking con trast to the violent excitement and unfavourable reaction produced by ether, and the expressions of pain, strug gles, &c., of ordinary surgical operations. The use of chloroform, as a pain-destroying agent, is a triumphant v example of the a ppli ca ti on of modern chemistry to the alleviation of su ff er i ng a nd relief of the dian._ Ipswich Express. COURT CIRCULAR. The Chevalier Bunsen, Prussian Minister, Iriq.aurat Palmerston, and the Hon. and Rev. C. Leslie Courte►- nay, left Osborne yesterday morning. The Queen and Prince Albert walked early yester day in the pleasure grounds and plantations of Osborne. Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales and the Princess Royal took airings yesterday in the vicinity of Osborne. Sir James Clark has left Osborne for town. Lord John Russell was slightly indisposed yestor dav at his residence in Chesbam-place. His Excellency the Prussian Minister returned to his residence on Carlton House -terrace yesterday, from her Majesty's marine residence, Osborne, Isle of Wight. Yesterday the several Commissions of the several Sewers Districts in the metropolis, were opened and real, and the Commissioners sworn for each. The Commissioners present and sworn were—Lord Morpeth (in the chair), Lord Ashley, Lord Ebring ton, Robert Aglionby Slaney, Esq., Joseph Hume, Esq., Dr. W. I3uckland (Dean of Westminster), Hon. Fred. Byng, Sir James Clark, Sir 11. de la Beebe, Edwin Chadwick, Esq., Jilin Leslie, Esq., Professor Richard Owen, William John Broderip, Bog., Dr. Neill Arnott, Dr. Southwood Smith, Richard Lambert Jones, Esq , John Bul'ar, Esq., Rev. IS' m. Stone, and John Bidwell, Esq. The Court of Sewers were formally opened, and provisional arrangements us to officers made for each district. Lewis C. Hertalet, Esq., was appointed Clerk of Minutes, Orders, and Correspondence; W. 11. Stable, Esq., Clerk of Collections and Accounts; Messrs. Roe and Phillips, Surveyors for each of the districts ; and Henry Austin, Esq., Consulting Surveyor, also for the several districts. The clerks of the several districts, and other salaried officers, were provisionally reappointed under the several Courts, and orders made, and an adjournment was ordered to Thursday, the 16th. A deputation from Bristol, consisting of the Mayor of Bristol ; the Hon. 11. Berkeley, M.P., Mr. Philip Miles, M.P.; Messrs. Richard P. King, James Gibbs,, George Thomas, W. Goldner, W. Tothill, Francis Jarman, John George Shaw, ilarman King, and the Town Clerk of Bristol, had an interview with the Right lion. T. Milner Gibson yesterday, at the office of the Board of Trade. The Earl of Devon had an interview with the Chancellor •f the Exchequer yesterday, at his official residence in Downing-street. The Judicial Committee of the Privy Council sat yesterday. Sir Frederick Thesiger and Mr. Crow ther (Queen's Counsel) were heard on an appeal from Canada " Logan v. Le Mesurier." The Lords present were—the Master of the Rolls, Lord Brougharr 4 . Lord Campbell, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Cornwall, and the Judge of the Admiralty Court. AN IRISH M.P. LAUGHED AT IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SU?7. SlR,—What very strange mistakes sometimes occur from misunderstanding the terms or words used by on• party to convey sentiments or opinions to another party. This was exemplified during the Currency debate in the House of Commons on Thursday night last. Mr. J. Reynolds, M.P. for Dublin, while addressing the House, remarked, "It must be borne in mind that banking profits arose in a great degree from trading oft one's credit in contradistinction to one's capital" Upon which your report states " great laughter" ensued. And even Sir Robert Peel mistook the application of the term " credit," as applied to a banker, or he would not have said to the Hon. Member, " He would rather have his capital than his credit." It would appear that the House of Commons understood the Hon. Member as de scribing an Irish banker to be a trader without money— a " licensed dealer in money without money"—as simply existing upon credit, viz., no capital whatever. Mr. J. Reynolds, addressing the House as a banker, could he have expressed himself in clearer or more con • cise terms than he did, in drawing the distinction be tween a banker's credit and a banker's capital? In what does a banker's credit consist? The capital of his customers—the deposits left in a banker's hands, these are the banker's credit. The deposits themselves are capital—the capital of the customers—but the credit of the banker who uses them. Thus, if the chief profit of banking arises from the use the banker makes of the deposits left in his hands, of course the profit arises from his credit—viz., the money lent by his customers in con tradistinction to his own private property—his own capital. In the sense aliened to by Mr. Reynolds, a banker's credit is itself capital—his customers' deposits left in his bands for the purpose of trading as a banker. Yours, SLc., Ilfracombe, Dec. 4, 1847. A BULLIONIST. ARRIVALS OF SPECIE. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. SlR,—The London papers still continue to attach some importance to the arrivals of specie from South America, as if they were ti liccp our stock of bullion. Now it is hardly credible that they are not aware of the fact, that the bulk of importations from that quarter consist of -ilver in bars or in plat() pin”, which, thanks to our wi:e. banking laws, is a lucre flint t. , r of merchandise, as sugar:, onfre,, &v., not aiding us ut all to recruit our stock tt4 it would to in any oth.r mercantile country iii tho universe, Does it not appear tnadricss, vt hen such a medium of relief is daily passing through our hands, that w•e should persist in refusing to admiL it to its due share of repre. senting our currency, and that nothing but gold, which, when once exportett, can only be recovered by tt forced action on exchanges, value of produce, property, &c., should be considered adequate to our wants ? At this moment the Cormorant steam frigate is ex pected from the West Coast and Brazils, with a large quantity of silver on board, which will, no doubt, find its way to the Continent, as all our imports of produce are, to a certain extent, doing at depreciated prices, entailing a heavy loss to the importer, that we may re ceive in return our own gold buck, which they 'wisely attach no fictitious value to. I cannot but think that the question of silver has not obtained the consideration it deserves at our hands, and that whilst we are impoverishing ourselves to obtain ono metal we are despising the other. I remain, Sir, your obedient servant, Liverpool, Dec. 3. 6ILVER. THE NATIONAL DEFENCES. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. SlR,—it is with pleasure I observe by the Parliamen tary news, that a notice has been given by the Earl of llardwicke in the Lords, and by Mr. Osborne, M,P., in the Commons, to inquire into the state of the national defences of Great Britain, a subject of the utmost im portance. The exposed and generally very undefended state of the coast of Sussex, is deserving. of the early attention. of the Legislature and the Government. The town of Brighton, and other places along the Southern coast, continue in a very weakened state of defence, and in the event of a sudden attack or invasion, an enemy might land with great facility on many parts of the Sussex coast. A central position is also much required for steam and armed vessels midway between Portsmouth and Dover, which also might be made a " harbour of refuge for trading and merchant vessels, so greatly needed for shipping; and let us hope that the suggestion of the Harbour of Refuge Commissioners (so ably advocated by your powerful journal on several occasions), to con struct a breakwater in the " magnificient " bay of Sea ford, will be carried out by a Government grant early in the present session. The above proposed site has been strongly commented on by Baron Dupin, of France immense importanc e to the maritime affairs and govern ment of this country. Si nce t h e recommendation of the. Admiralty Commissioners a branch line of Railroad. has been completed from Keymer to the mouth of the valuable and improving tidal harbour of Newhaven, in the immediate vicinity of Seaford Bay, from which har bour (the nearest to London), steam-vessels of great power will ply to and from Dieppe and Havre in the en suing spring, and will open a communication with the Sussex coast, which must attract the attention of Go vernment, in reference to the defence of the coast. Parliament being again assembled, I trust you will once more urge the attention of both Houses to this subject. I am, Sir, yours obediently, Dec. 7, 1847. A FRIEND TO ENGLAND. THE SUN CORRECTED. T o ll ! : h e authoritiesorcelad_ob_fe reaches General post-office, it appears, have recommended, a ti d e the various railway companies have agreed to, the 1 . i form and literal adoption of Greenwich time at ' I L railway stations throughout the whole country th us giving the sun the lie direct, by declaring, an d the nation at large to declare, that a b t e i f t oar i t s oem l e 9 at Holyhead, for instan ce , the fact is that the sun has s time to make up, more or i l l:l es t : et s n on o e r at Holyhead. meridian (or true 12 noon) at Du , b i li . Dubl in, th 2' a0t1:11 minutes principle, in proposition that " white a T n h d is a g ffi o r - m a - a h t e j a v d e a p t r h ie e c c i is black and black is white for it virtu a lly es t a bli s h es the erronqous principle t hat it is high noon where the sun is either only rising, or where be is already going down. But if astronomers countenance at. all so heterodox a correction of the sties divisions, of time into day and night and noon and morning, w,e mistake much if they would not rather at least • te. commend some local centre in the very midst of the em pire thus induced to fix and stereotype, or, as it 'were. electrotype, by telegraph, a scientific error, in,co one perpetual and conscious lie, or legion of diurnal lies, in the very face of the sun himself : and such a means or average centre could 11 , ., easily found ani as readily established, with a national observatory, and an electro magnetic rapport with the Lt.l4 , grApit , system, such as that already suggested in connexion with the Gree:iwich noonday signal.—Builder. COLONIAL WHEAT.—There have been several ar rivals of wheat within this day or two from the extreme south-eastern colonial districts of the globe. These sup plies, from the principal ports of Van Diemen's Land and South Australia, are by no means devoid of interest or importance. A LUCKY' DISCOVENT.—Among the collection, o f paintings, the property of Mr. John Wilson, of Strat ford,he has discovered " A Sleeping Venus," executEsse edb x ; the celebrated Titian. We understand the fortunate owner has sold it within the last two or three days fur five hundred uiueas.—lpswich Express.