The Sun. — London, England, 1853-06-15 00:00:00

•*.° %1 3} S ••'" 0 6 1.) ead 01°1 qtlo 1110 j 'at° ipti° at oito roei oto! )11' b J; 'oe• 1.1 tan 0,3 ar Foe' ;slt :kr .13 to F ,t jo. )'1 ot Fa e 0 )1 igt I) 0 a It io 0 11 10 rl 10 f / 9 / I; °;0;1' a f ri ' '' pli to~ y ,e lt4 r; ,ts'' o.) Li or, -eo" .~ THE SllX, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUNE 15, 1853. for though taking cognizance of bribery a nd o pen intimi. their epeeehese sod to aed the eontituit between them and ing booth with armed soldiers. (Hear, hear.) The English dation, a n d ph ys i ca l f or „ l ea di ng to a b reac h o f th e p ett ea, the ntiSerable futile break-down arguments of Cabinet election which he selected as an illustration was that of they passed by this screw. Though its operation. enixte be- Ministers. (Hear, hear.) But he felt bound to meet the Oldham. It appeared from the report that Mr. Fox and fore them as a matter of course, yet ea ama ttor of course latest objections on record to the principle of vote hy ballot. Mr. Heald were the candidates for that borough ; that Mr. they must pass over it, for there was no law which they The members of the present cabinet seemed but too glad to Fox had a majority of the electors in his favour, and that could wield against in This was remarkably exemplified creep under the gaberdine of the Times for shelter. The Mr. Heald had a mejority of the ruffians. (Laughter.) in the elither a e eotamittee. They referred, in their report hal" , said the TilThes was a question not of philosophy When a right good agent of the Derby or St. Alban's breed the Si to bribery ana physical force intimidation but said not a but of fact. It woulh not prove an efficient protection undertook to return a candidate for a given borough, he ',he ta. word of that more d ea dl y i nt i m id at i on w ea ch turned th e t o th e voter, because in these days every man's opinions first of all tried the efficacy of bribery and corruption, and, small farmer out of his barn or his house, which ruined the were known. He (Mr. Berkeley) woul.l admit that the if those aids failed, he then, in the laat resort, hired a mob ilion ; tradesmen, or put the debtor in pri son . Th a t w as p esse d question was one of fact and not of philosophy But on to thrash the unfriendly electors going to and returning Irks ; ha' ; coming under the name of the screw, the committee whose side was the fact, an d on w ba se s er e a m ' th e h• f th 11 n 1 to smash their windows. Now there p - rom epo ,a. t eit Co\ did not feel authorised to report upon it. To show how the I losophy, or rather the sophistry ? (Hear, hear.) " Does were certain men who were so unmanly as to object to arks ; screw acted at Clitheme, he would read aletter of one elec- ; the ballot (it is asked) prevent a man's opinions from being have their bones broken, so unmanly as to object to the te, aa tier). agent, who hired another election aiy e nt for the pur- . known ?' The concealment of a man's opinions depended upsetting of carriages, so unmanly and so un-English as to 'Tea pose, and the eo l e purpose o f putt i ng on te a s e i ect i ou screw , ' on himself, but the main and material fact Was, that the consider the intrusion of a brick-bat on the tea-table of a ey ; t 1 It was a. letter from one William Wheeler, the a eent of ! ballot prevented the man's vote from being known. family party an unwelcome event. (Laughter.) Well, by ern at Ma. Matthew Wilson, the sitting member, to RobeA Wat 1 (Cheers.) He was speaking in th e p resence o f an assem bly s uch sada as theae the legitimate majority of Mr. Fox was what. ton, a farmer, who it appeared was a gen tl e man that had ' that p . rotected themselves from the Sir Lucius O'Triggers very neerly converted into a minority ; and his hon. friend great influence with poachers and prizefighters; and he had lof society by means of the ball o t, an d h e p u t it t o th em w h o m he Was happy to see present, would no doubt be e Lor been tampered with to obtain a m o b o f 300 men to bully !to say, if the ballot did not enable them to conceal their ready to confirm his statement, that had it not been for of A and beat the electors, but it seemed he preferred the ser- ; votes, and, if they wished it, tbeir opinions also ? (Hear, the marvellous firmness of his friends he would have been vice of Mr. Wilson, and altogether rejected these overtures. hear.) Well, but the Sir Lucius O'Triggers of politica defeated by a minority. Nor was that case peculiar. on te That letter waa as follows :-" Dear Sir,-We are greatly I were more dangerous than the Sir Lucius O'Triggers of They had it in evidence that Clitheroe and Blackburn were obliged to you for your letter of the 28th of June, and for I society ; and was it fair or just, he would ask, in them, in exactly the same position as Oldham ;in short this was ber o your kind exertions on the part of Mr. Wilson. Every I with their broad acres and their broad c l o th, t o seek to the common rule of English elections. Now for this ei pi vote that we can get will be wanted, and therefore I should i conceal their votes and opinions by me a n s o f the ballot and state of thinga the ballot was a certain remedy. Nobody be glad to hear of any addition to our strength. ' James ; deny the Same protection to men who wore fustian and would break a man's bones in order to persuade kin aMc Watson, of Brownlow, has notyet promised ,• and although !men Who were tenants-at-will? (H ear , hear.) Would they to vote in a particular way ; nobody would upset a elane we expect he will vote for Mr. Wilson, still a word from ! answer that question ? (Hearn He often put it before, carriage in order to prevent a man from voting ; nobody irely you, will, perhaps, get a definite promise. They are put- but he never yet got an answer. (Hear.) But he denied woulksmash windows if it wete impossible to tell bow the ting on the screw with their tenants in all directions, and as a mere matter of fact, that the electors could not conceal vote was given ; and he maintained that the ballot was the 'on 1 we must do the same in self-defence. Heve you any other their opinions, and that they mu s t necessarily be kuown. constitutional mode of election. Well, then, in Ireland 1 wi. tenants voters? Mr. Sutcliffe Witham has a Joseph Green (Hear.) It was said that the poor electors were too g,arru- the ballot would have prevented the catastrophe at the who is all right, and a Tomlinson whom I should like you lons, and that their opinions must be known. Why there Six-mile-bridge. (Hear, hear.) In the first place, no land- ' to see ; in fact, any one you have any influence over. Of were hundreds of thousands of p oor persons in this country lords would pile up their tenantry on cars like living bales ENa course you must charge nee with your personal expenses associated together who did keep their secrets inviolate. of goods, and - consign them to the next polling booth with tate and loss of time, which I shall be glad to pay. With (Hear, hear.) He was, himself, a member of the Foresters the aid of the military, if the ballot were established, be tble thanks, believe me yours truly, W. WHEELER.-June 30, and Odd Fellows Societies -(laughter)-and he had no cause these men might accept their conveyance and then 'as 1852, Clitheroe." If these electors were as many buck- doubt many of the members around him were in the same vote in their teeth. (Hear, hear.) No mob would as- A 1 1 1 , rabbits they could not be spoken of more contemptuously, position. (Hear, hear.) He knew there was a vast number semble. eithef to rescue a voter from a tyrant landlord, or and the mode of handling buck-rabbits wasvery suggestive of Odd Fellows in the House of Commons. (Muchlaughter.) to ill-use him if he were an opponent, seeing that it Would I t, of the mode in which these gentlemen dealt with the elec- Now he never knew that the secrets of these societies had be utteily impossible to know which way he was going to tors. (Hear. hear.) They took them by the ears, and trans- been betrayed either from garrulity, or drink, or any vote. It was- contrary to common sense to say that under ot feared them from one side to the other, without any cam- misplaced confidence in w o m a n. /L a u g hter.) He had the ballot the peace of the country would be disturbed as opi plaint or resistance from the docile tenante-at.will. heard the wives of Freemasons' declare that there could be it had been during general elections. (Hear, hear.) He hei (Laughter.) Was this a stateof things which an enlightened no secret in freemasonry, because if there was they would challenged any kon. gentleman to match such places as Old ear, nation should suffer withoutattempting th apply a remedy ? be sure to get it out of them in their soft hours. So much ham and theaSix.enile-bridge and Blackburn, or even Cli- Bat against intum — datien they had no remedy whatsoever. for the general habits of the people. (Laughter and theroe, in any country where the ballot was established. . ten -ef. He defied the most astute member of that house to point cheers.) He had been challenged to deal with facts, and (Hear hear.t If they questioned the Belgian, he would Id out anything like a remedy for it. (Hear, hear.) There he would now produce evidence to show that the political tell them that, though great interest was felt in his national . eit was no remedy but the ballot ; and they knew it. opinions of the electors were not generally known. In elections, peace and order were tbe rule, and the opposite (Cheers.) They could make no law to prevent a landlord these days and under the present electoral system, poor the eiception. (Hear, hear.) If they questioned the ro. from ejecting a tenant-at-will when he pleased. .The land- men no more dared to assert th e i r p o liti ca l opinions than Frenchman, he would tell them that nothing could be more 'th lord was uot obliged to assign his reason for doing it ; they dared to give their votes contrary to the wishes of orderly than French elections-(hear)-he would tell them le, and they could not make him assign one. They could their landlords. The tenants-at-will, it was said, had no that in the vicinity of the voting inns in France the trades •al pass no law to prevent that. They . could make no political opinions of their own. They had political opinions men never closed their shops, that the doors were not is law to prevent a customer from changing his tradesman ;of their oWn, but they dared. not express them. (Hear.) closed, nor the windows sm ,shed. Perhaps the French t i _.. as often as he pleased ; it was utterly impossible to . The tradesmen of this country likewi se heel their opinions, man would tell them, too, that John Bull was so accus make a law to prevent that. They could make no law to but they were obliged to conceal th em or their bread would tome& to his national luxuries of beer, boxing, and bribery, ta _ his debtor either into the polling-booth or into prison. : house so long, but on this point h e b egge d their attention again, they questioned the American, he would tell them Majority - that at his national elections peace was the rule, disturbance THE BALLOT. every grade and phase of society they could make no law , enittee in 1835 : " You have been a land surveyor ?-I the exception, He was afraid-he (Mr. Berkeley) did not Mr. M. CHAMBERS presented a petition from Green- to compel the employer to keep on the employed. Then, . have. In what counties ?-Brecknock, Shropshire, York- say it-he was afraid Jonathan would add that Jolla Bull what act could they pass to prevent this intimidation? ' shire, Oxfordshire, Middlesex ; but m y b us i ness h a s called would never get rid of his corrupt electoral system until he wich, and Sir J. V. SHELLEY three petitions from West- The cases he had referred to were those in which the very ;me to many other parts of England. You have had an had gokrid of the corrupting influence of a hereditary peer minster, in favour of vote by ballot. gist of intimidation consisted. Open voting exposed the i opportunity of knowing the opinions of farmers on most age. 'One word, before he concluded, with regard to the Mr. H. BERKELEY said he rose, Pursuant to notice, voter to the influence of persons who, by the knowledge subjects ?-My business has led me very much among that beroughs which contained dockyards. The atrocities per to ask leave to bring in a bill to giae to the electors of . they so obtained, were able to deal out punishment or re- class of men. I wish you to confine y ourse lf en tirely to petrated in these boroughs, in the shape of punishment Great Britain and Ireland the protection of the ballot. ward to the elector. The elective franchise was thus • their political relations with their landl or d s , an d with a and reward, were fully and fairly before the public ; and - . wrested from the class that was legelly entitled to it, and ; view to that part of the subject-I ask, among . w h a t class of Chatham had the unenviable notoriety of having never When Lord Aberdeen's Ministry announced to the country waeusurped by others, who had noright to it at all, more par- I tenants do you believe most independen ce iS t o b e found ? returned a member eontrarY to the interests of the Go their intention to bring forward a measure of reform, he ticularly by peers of the realm, who were forbiddin by i Among those who have a leasehold ten ure ; b u t their in- vernment of the day. (Hear, hear-) Now the only way he had hoped that the ballot might be a component part law from interfering in elections for members of P e rlis. d e p en d ence i s very muc h governed by circumstances. in which. they could prevent the electors oisuch boroughs of their scheme, and that they would haVe deemed it ne- meat. (Cheers.) Secret voting was the only mode of What circumstances f-The length of th e l eas e, for in- from lfeing . punished for pelitical virtue and rewarded for Preventing . this evil, and he should not trouble the house I stance. I have alWays remarked that f a r me rs are more political vice, was bY giving them securi, ty at the poll. cessary to protect the consciences and the Persons, the on the subject of intimidation, further than to add two ! inclined to assert their political opinions at the commence- Ilantil that was done never would merit meet with its minds, and the bodies of electors, bY the :ballot. But Pithy sentences-one by the best authority of the olden ; ment of their tenure than at its conclusion. (Cheers.) I desert, or the stream Of patronage flow in the right chan having had a distinct intimation in the addresses of Lord time, the other by the first authority o f modern days, , presume you mean in cases where they di sa a ree i n politics ne a He should not be doing justice, however, if he admit- John Russell and Sir James Graham to their constituents, " There is no way to stop this evil, it es so engrained in with their landlords ? -3r es ; and esPecialielf the landlord ted that the dockyard voters of Chatham were more under that they were determined not to have anything to do the _peoPle, but by the way of balloting," said Daniel I be a strong politician. There are some la n dl o rds who do th e influence of others than the tenant-farmers ; and he De Foe. " There is no way of stopping intimidation, but . not interfere. Is that, in your opinion, a large class 9 *--4 4. 0 1 maintained that if they attempted to disfranchise the elec. with that measure, he, under a strong sense of duty, and by making intimidation mechanic a lly i mposs ibl e ,e ex ,. on the contrary, for i f th e l an dlord have no sarong po ' litical t ors o f Chatham, they ought, at the same time, as a mat hy the counsel of friends for whose judgment he enter- claimed George Grote. (Cheers.) His com pl a int was that, bias of his own, in nine cases out of ten he i n t e rf e res with t er o f juatirse, to disfranchise ,the tenant-fanners of tained a great respect, had deemed it necessary to ask per. though intimidation was raging through the land like an his tenantry from the instigation of some n e i g hbour who th e c ounty of Kent. (Hear, near, and cheers.) It mission to legislate on that subject. When he last ad- epidemic, and though they had as certain a remedy for it has. Do you consider that politics are liable to breed ill- was , th e n, because he objected to the exercise of this as vaccination was for the small-pox, they denied to the will between landlord and tenant ?-I do, esp ec i a lly when ty rann y ove r electors, tnet he entreated the house dressed a House of Commons on that question, it was on country the cure. (Hear, hear.) One feature was re- the tenants have leases. How? Where they are t e nants- t o f ree th e country from its Pernicious consequences ; the eve of a general election. Lord Derby had determined markable in all the sp eec h es o f th e p resen t mi n istry, from at.will ?-Mu c h le ss so , because tenants-at-will h eve no Will its was b eca usi 3 he would Practically carry out the senti to throw himself on the country ; and perhaps that might Lord Aberdeen downwards,- the admission of the deplor- as far as politics are concerned ; they know th e y must vote men t s o f the noble lord, and restore to good sense, wisdom ! have suggested to Mr. Dickens the . ' strange idea of Lord able faults of our electoral system. This admission was as their landlords please, and make up their mind s t o do so. an d A a d ere tion the privilege of recording an unfettered Coodle throwing !himself on the country in the shape of made at the eleventh hour. (Hear, hear.) UP to th,is (Hear-) Are there not exceptions to the rule f-There may vote that he sought teaprotect those great qualities of the sovereigns and beer. (Great laughter.) The hangerseon of time almost those faults had been most audaciously de- be, but you will find themveryrare. Have you found, gene. peo pl e , (Cheers.) When they heard of democracy, he en nied. • Lord Aberdeen said-" Some amendment of our re- rally, that tenants-at-will are contented to be thus go- treated the house to remember the conduct of the people in the two factions were on the alert. The springs for presentative system is necessary - and unquestionably ,the ven t ed ?-I have observed that the most intelligent among 1848, that memorable era e when the demoerapawere tou. m .nd moving the constituencies were put in enter ; and they result of the last election has not' been calculated to render that class, consequently the best agriculturists are by no th e prompt protectors ot their count'''. tCneers-) ate had it in evidence that gentlemen high in office-for in- any man more enamoured of the present system." His means contented ; but they cannot help themselves ; while wou ld call upon them to remember the conduct of the lo dship used that strong expression before the recent dis- those men, whose families have held their f ar ms without people at the Great Exhibition, marked as that conduct stance, the Right Hon. Wm. Beresford-had taken counsel closures in the committeesen Whet would he say now ? being disturbed from gene ration to generation, are just as was by great intelligence and by the love of order - he with Mr. Frail, of Derby notoriety,' no doubt for the pur- (Hear, hear.) When Lord John Russell appeared as a can- well satisfied to pay th e i r vo t e s to their e en di or d s a s their would call -upon them not to forget the conduct et . t he pose of securing the purity of the great Tory party ; at the didate for the suffrages of the electors of London e the i3OO- rents, and consider it muc h the same thi ng . D o y o u con- people at the interment of England's great captain-(hear, on him t o g i ve th em th e b a ll o t ; an d h e (m r . e id er thi s class of men less intelligent ?-I do. These are hear) -marked as their conduct then was by deep reverence same time they had eoular demonstration that the Right Ple called Hon. Wm. Goodenough Hayter might be seen taking r ß e e ns rk o e n le i g i r perfec t tly s a t s a tmed an ow f as the com imb e y= o re f so th ret , ti :lel sa o me u s i o a rt of men who oppose all improvements, and and respect for the mighty dead-the aristocrat who la t y r in counsel with Mr. Coppock, of St. Albans celebrity, no to. (Hear, _he w er.) TIZe gist of what he said p was that there thinl's uwent o t n th as ei w r e fet t leers did SO before them, and that the coffin before them ; and then he told . them to i ge id t II hen as they do now. Do you think of their paltry terrors and their aristocratic tremb ings a doubt for the purpose of s ecuring th e same l au d a ble result must be perfect equality in our institutions ; that we could the tenantry of the country generally would like to vote by democracy. (Cheers.) He called upon that newly elected for his party. (Cheers and laughter.). They had evidence • not admit of secret v o ti ng i n one , un l ess we admitted it in ballot ?-A vast majority would ; but there are a class of House of Commons to stand forward and prove themselves that the masquerade shops had been ransacked ; that wigs, all e and he illustrated that position in a veey extraordinary them who, I have no doubt, would have as much horror of worthy of the people who had sent them there ;he called manner. He said that as the proceedings of cour t s of law the ballot as I have known them profess for subsoil, drain- upon them to restore to the people a great privilege, a spectacles, and disguised had been put in iequisition-that were open, so should the proceedings of those who elected age and the drill plough y ou h ave „id th a t you think c hartered right,. to which they were as much entitled as aliases and alibis were in vogne-(hear, hear)-and all this members to serve in Parliament. (Hear, hear.) Who in- the'majority of farmers - Would p re f er th e b a llot, how do they were to enjoy the sun that shone in God's firmament to usher m with due solemnity England's great sePtennial timidated a judge ? Who corrupted a jury e who could you account for the fact that f ewer p e titions have been or the breezes of spring ; and that theY might do this he saturnalia, and to do honour to that freedom of election command, by dint of punishment or reward, the charge of presented by that class of men to th e H o use of Commons entreated them most respectfully, but most earnestly, to in which her Majesty's Cabinet Ministers would seem so a judge or the verdict of a jury ? (Hear, hear.) How than any other in favour of it ?-The reason appears to me legislate on this subject. (Loud cheers.) greatly to rejoice. (Cheers and laughter.) At that time could the publicity of judicial proceedings injure either plain. When you say farmers, I take it for granted you Sir J. V. SHELLEY seconded the motion. He said he 'Red his feeble voice to point out to the house the judge or jury? (Hear, hear.) But they knew that Parlia- mean tenants-at-will. Well, then, a tenant-at-will no after the speech which had just been delivered, he should mentary electors were intimidated, that voters were cor- more dare sign a petition on a political subject than he not feel justifiee in detaining the house at any length. If gathering storm. He endeavoured to show that England aupted, that the decision of the elector was g o verned by the d are vote without the concurrence of his landlord ; and it would be difficult to bring forward any new arg.uments was about to place herself in a position disgraceful to a fear of punishment and the hope of reward, and that the the ballot is more dreaded by landlords than any other i n f av our of the ballot, it would, he thought, be still more Christian country in the eyes of Europe. Two hundred publicity of thenseoceedings led to a fraud on the conscience reform whatever. Then you think tenants-at-will dare difficult to bring forward any new one against it. (Hear.) of the voters. What analogy could there be between those not entertain any political opinions ?-I do not say that ; The arguments in its favour had been strengthened a years ago, old John Evelyn had made the same two cases? Wbo could forget the speeches made by the but Ido say that they dare not express them. If a tenant- hundred-fold by the decisions of the recent election cone complaint, almost in precisely the same words. He noble lord at Perth and Leeds ?At Pe r th the noble lord at-will were to express o . pinions hostile to those of a strong mittees. It was curioua to reflect how much time had been spoke of " the confused, debauched, and riotous manner had said that it was true conservatism not to oppose the political landlord-for instance, if he were known to be was ted in the discussion of this subject. In 1838, in intro- . of electing members qualified to become representatives just demands of the people. Did he not talk of democracy favourable to the ballot, he would be treated as he treats d ue ing this subject, Mr. Grote observed that the necessity . of a nation," and said that electiont more resembled a having its rights as well as aristocracy ; and how much a tainted sheep, and be drafted from the flock." (Cheers.) for a remedy against bribery and intimidation was con- , safer it was to yield those rights rather than to wait until If they turned over the 900 pages of evidence contained in f eee ed on all sides, and on the same occasion the noble lord Pagan bacchanalia than an assembly of 'sober and Chris- they were forced ? What did the noble lord say at Leeds ? the b oo k from which he quoted, they would find, by the the . member for the city of London observed that when tian men. (Hear, hear.) Was it not a disgraceful -" I believe that the institutions of this country would testimony of Mr. Wilcox and Mr. Fitzgerald, both of them all acknowledged that the evil prevailed to a great extent, fact, that after the lapse of 200 years, with the march be entirely impracticable-would entirely fail-would magistrates, and of the late Col. Bruen, who had been a they were bound to provide a remedy. Since that time the of intellect, the increase of intelligence, the progress break to pieces in the working of the machinery, if it were member of that house ! that . t . he e l eF t ors o f I re l an d dared noble . lord had often been strong enough to propose le re not for the good sense, the moderation, and, I may say, the no more to express their political opinions than the tenants- mody, but to the only remedy of which the case admitted of education, and the ceremony, not to say the mockery of wisdom of the people ; but I believe in that good sense, at-will in England. (Hear, hear-) The only difference h e had r e fused his assent. He did not know what remedy a re f o rm bill, those very evils still formed the earnest WM' that moderation, that wisdom, we have a security for the was, that the Irish landlords did not disguise or mince the th e no bl e lord meant to propose now ; but his (Sir J. V. p l a i n t o f e very honest man, from Dover to Inverness, from future welfare and prosperity of those institutions." But ' matter, but openly proclaimed their right to command the sh e il e yea c onstituents were strongly impressed with the the Cove of Cork to the Giant's Causeway ? (Hear, hear.) the o la s ng o u n age of the noble lord was very different when in votes of their tenants. (Hear ) And he would show that necessity of being allowed to give their votes by ballot. pae iti and when a member of the Government, for that feeling was as rampant now in Ireland as it was in s o me of them, who lived in tbe fashionable parts of West °what did he say when he stood for the City of London? 1835. He would show that coercion of the voter existed m inster, or in such streets as Regent-street, Bond-street, Some 40 years after John Evelyn had made this complaint, another great reformer arose, and attacked the same evila Lord J. RUSSELL-All the addresses, that to the elec- to an extent which was scarcely credible. (Hear, hear.) and Oxford-street, had no wish to be subjected again to tors of the City of London included, were delivered in Here was the case of Mr. Henry De Burgh, a landlord the annoyance and discomfort of being visited by fine a s n d m u l e s e t o sition. pointed ont the ballot as the remedy. H g ppo which Evelyn had deplored -Daniel D i e s w Fo ri e ti ; ii in the county of Monaghan. Mr. De Burgh writes l a dies in carriages, and having the screw put upon them. Mr. BERKELEY thought that the address to the elec- to the editor of the Daily Express as follows :-" Bel- (Hear, hear.) He would be glad to learn what was the h b'all tth tors of London Was IlleAo when the noble lord had joined camp, St. Doulough's, Raheny, August 17, 1852.-Sir, opinion of the country geutlemen on this subject, but House f C passed a bill to make t e o e o ommons have taken great effect on the public of that day • for the mode of electing members of Parliament, but it was re- the present cabinet. (Oh, oh.) It did not much matter -Perhaps you will make use of the inclosed corres- he perceived that at present that party was represented 1 th whether that were so or not, because a ll he wished to show pondence to suit the purposes of the day. John Mue•phY solely by the hon. member for Cambridgeshire (Mr. E. ce Well, was that there was a discrepancy and a change of tone in is a tenant on the lands of Skeborn, in the county of Mon- Ball). - On the occasion to which he had already alluded, to the root of their own unconstitutiona in uen . jected by the Lords, who of coarse aefu l sed fi to ay e axe f 1. - th 1 our great Pagan bacchanalia had passed over, and le.t tee . e anguage use d by th e no bl e l or d on th ese different occa- , aghan. I asked him for his vote. He voted against me. that of the debate in 1438, the hon. taronet the amember nation staggering under t its effect. A great struggle had sions. • (Hear.) After extolling the good sense. modera' I I directed the sub - agent, Mr. Johnson, to enforce all rent for Herta (Sir B. Lytton), in replying to the argument that ta k en p i, e , e,_ i en dws h t i c h _ te. ,, n y with its iron heel had tien, and wisdom of the PeoPle- the noble lord said, in ! justly due and payable, without pressure or hardship. the ballot would weaken the influence of property, ob crushed in th . 0 . the y li . b n ert of the elector, through fact, to the electors of London, " Oh, but I shell stand by ;He wrote the letter No. 1 ; this morning I received from served that there were two kinds of influence, legitimate means of our existing electoralysystem; bribe t rK and inti- and see the vote t orn f rom th e s id e o f good sense. modera. ! Murphy the letter No. 2e I wrote my reply No. 3. You influence and improper influence • then when improper in e work of tion, and w i s d om en d usurpe d b y ty rann y oppression, I may make what editorial use of the subject and letters fluence was being used to over-ruie the conscience) of the midation had gone hand in hand to complete general demoralisation. When he (Mr. Berkeley) as sno eanar i rary con uc . ear, ear. enoe or sal . you please. If the landlords of the country (i.e., t e on- voter. the bal ot wou te a protec ion, an pce e poor 1 t k d lel d' t(H h )Th 'lel ad•d ' - ' h C ' I 11 b ta dla th herever a he warned the house that flocks of low attorneys, the means that the d emocracy had its rights and that the d e pended servative) would all do likewise, the priests would soon and the rich man on equal terms, but t a h r at_ w_ ...mate by which the House of Lords returned their nominees to on the good sense o f t h e peop l e fa r t h e ex i s t mn y ce o f th e i r b e co nsidered by their own flots as the s political great proprietor was more beloved haa fe ed, legal ' • h id t th bll t He ho ed po . va p y q tionseay are.-nENRY DE DURGH: inauence cou.- not be taken away by e ao . y the House of Commons, were hovering over the land- in . stitutions ; but when it came to the int he refused to m ires the un nes • 1,1 (cheers) -like the harpies of old, seeking to pounce upon give them the f ree an d uncontro ll e d use of th e i r voices , ___,,, anow.hill, Monaghan, August 5, 1852. - Sir, -I the opinion of the hon. baronet would now have due weight and defile the banquet spread before them. (Cheene) If the noble l or d would l i sten to and hear the langune o f . have thi a d a y received instractions from Mr. De Burgh, with the country party, and that they would tot pay ta t e people, he would find them sa yi ng th a t i n th e t eam of , t o ca ll on you for all rent and arrears of rent to be themselves the bad compliment to conclude that if the Those flocks of attorneys were new gorged, sated, rumi nating upon the Past eneoyment of unlimited expenditure re orm the no bl e l or d was the best collared horse, b ut th e i pa id on your holdings up to May, 1852, otherwise to ballot existed, the constituents would not select persons of moment he took office, he became reetive, he turned "jib- ! take the necessary proceedings for the recovery of it.- their dais. (Hear.) At all events he should vote for the . and untaxed bills-(loud cheers and laughter) -or re pluming themselves for another fight, allured by the pros- ber," broke his coll a r_ an d sa t d own o e hi s breechine. i Your obedient, Jolter JOHNSON.-Mr. John MurPhy. - motion with the greatest cordiality. p - ect of a hundred teeming election petitions up stairs, (Loud l aug h ter .) H ' e would now oo : o to the spee l 1 p . a . Tin s must be settled next week, J. J."-" Skeborn, The question that leave be given to introduce the bill involving the outlay of some 200,000 1 ., of which those which the right h on . gen tl eman th e Fi rs t L or d o f th e Ad. ! A ug , 10, 1852.-Mr. De Burgh,-Sir,-Inclosed I send having been put, gentlemen expected, and no doubt would obtain, the lion's Tiralty delivered at Carlisle. The right hon. baronet said, you a n ote I got from Mr. Johnson, which will, I hope, Mr. E. BALL opposed the motion, not believing that the ; hare. (Ch eers .) s uc h were some of the consequences of ?To Fen can view with more disgust than Ido the luta. . bear my excuse for troubling you. I hope, sir e you will b a ll o t would materially remove existing corruption. He our glorious electoral system, that system of which we =elation, bribery, an d corru pt p rac ti ces w hi c h h ave p re - no t persevere at this unusual season to press foe rent. twice apologised for being unprepared with a speech, but he ere so proud, which was so manly, so English- so es. veiled at elections, an d even a t th e l as t genera l e l ec ti on i n wh a t I would be able to accomplish in two months, with- favoured Lord J. Russell with a solution of the reform aeet w a e ll e g ng li s h, th a t o th e r nations repudiated it. (Cheers.) th, is aeauntry. It is cruel when men have a privilege which out doing me any injury, would be a heavy loss to press p ro blem, by advising him to give all the county voters Via; ba ite d por ti on o f the electors themselves hated and rear ought to exercise freely and indePendently for either for now, as I have grass taken for two of my cows. I vo tes for the county boroughs, and all borough voters detested it, for it was to them a system of humiliation and andlords o r em pl o y ers t o i n ti m id a t e t h em b y t h rea t s , or wou ld consequently lose their benefit for the three best votes for their counties, in addition to the franchise at diserace, and at a general election they suffered under for customers to declare to tradesmen that if they do not months, as butter is 3d, per poun d b e tt er now than in present respectively enjoyed by both classes. He would w hat m i g ht b e a pp ro priately termed a reign of terror. vote in a Particular way they shall be deprived of custom. summer. I will be able to pay you in October all demands. l e t a ny person who might desire a county vote have it on (Hear.) While they hated and detested this system, a It is unworthy of this f ree coun t r y th a t any man I f on dly hope, respected sir, you will be so kind and in- paying a certain price at a register office, the money te be ma j or it y o f th e e l ec t e d were determined to abide by it ; should be exPesed to what I hold to be such tyranny dulgent as to grant the time I have requested, and I will divided between the elected members, and he greatly this showing to demonstration that they were not elected and oppression. ' (Hear hear, and cheers.) The house • pray for your welfare- I have to remark I have all rent amused the house by declaring how gladly he would re by the voice of the electors, but by a power which con- could imagine th e up i urne d f aces o f the people w h en m i d up t o may, 1851.-I am, your respected servant, ceive such money. trolled that voice. The evils of the system were twofold; they heard - the benign voice of the right honourable gen- ! 'OIIN Multalfaa - Sir -If you favour me with a reply, Mr. J. PHILLIMORE thought that the ballot Would be th ey cons i s t e d i n b r ib er y, i n cluding treating and intimida- man, and that the cry of " Graham for ever" became the . direct 'in care Mr. dohn Leghorn, Clones.'" This was a specific remedy for a specific evil-intimidation. He tion. That house had made many futile attempts to put order of the day. (Hear, and laughter.) But though the ' the respected master's reply :-" St. Dunlough's Raheny, denied that any earthly power had a right to ask a man down bribery ; all its efforts had been addressed to that right hon, g en tl e m a n was ready to put a atop to intimida- ' August 16, 1852. - Sia,-Yours of the 10th was forwarded why he voted in a particular way. The ballot would re point . no e ff or t h a d b een ma de to put down intimidation. don, he did not believe the ballot would do it. Yet the I here. Mr. Johnson has acted strictly according to his move from 3 dishonest voter one moeive for acting dis. h e y ' com p e lled th e ir comm ittees to take an anomalous right hon. gentleman did not say that anything else would- . instructions. You refused your landlord the compliment honestly, while it would protect an honest one. Needed ' and - inconsistent course ; they forced them to turn out of He had recourse to arguments so weak and untenable, that . o f y ou r vote. Be it so. Let there be no compliment in England, this protection was still more needed in Ire . th a t h ouse m embers who w e re perfectly innocent of bribery the right hon. gentleman must be at his wit's end - and between us. Vote as you please ; but pay up your rents land. He reminaed the Government that the ballot was the ms elves, because some agent, either through gross cu- that was at a considerable distance-(laughter) - when he ,to the day they are usually payable, or I shall make you. part of the o riginal Reform Bill, and was laid aside be kr. NOTICES OF MOTION. pidity, or the greatest rascality and treachery, had either used them. The r ight h on . b arone t s a id they coeld not I No doubt but your political supporters will grant you the cause it was thought that the extension of the franchise 'he I E ' 13 A -LL gave no ti ce th a t on thi s d a y mon. th he given some venal elector a couple of pounds, or had enact, in this free country that everY man should give his favour that I refuse, and enable you to pay your ye . ar's wouid r e nder it un necessary, but as results bad sh own th .a t th n 4 submit I hed some beast with a gallon of beer. (Laughter.) vote in secret, and that without this the ballot would be , rent due on the Ist day of May, 1852.-Your obedient this was not the case, the remedy must now be tried, in e malt - a motion to the house on the subject of (-nor . , found flagrantly inefficient for if the voter refused to give ' servant, HENRY DE BURGH.-Mr. John Murphy, Scarvy, the absence of any better suggestion. kr. la taz e ie n e While thus intent on purity of election, they equally per- , , mitte t d c ni r lttte t Lftlidats' to %lends, l, and candidates' his vote openly when asked by his landlord to do go, the Clones." Then he thought allurphy would have been the Mr. BRA.DY advocates the ballot, not as certain to cure )2 aitke a - "'eall gave notice that on Thursday be should pol there to falsify landlord would assume that his secret vote was given ' better for the ballot. (Loud cheers.) He thought after all the existing evils, but because the present system was en tieh _ !statement to the house respecting a transaction re l i i r s Conscie i nces and to na ave a di e sh - onest vote. (Hear, against him, and he would act accordingly. But on what , ' what he had quoted, they might come to the. eonclusion a bed one, and because a constituency of the country was aoti ee 4. !rected his personal honour. He gave this early hear ) The pe itted customers to compel tradesmen to authority did the right hon. gentleman assume that theY that the serfdom of the tenant voter WINS as great in Ire- not in a poeition to make that house a reflex of popular iti. uourtihd rreesfeserx. eole r i l n order that the noble lord the member for vote' under Pain of ruin (Hear hear.) They permitted could not pass an act re q uiring that every vote should be land as it was in England. (Hear. hear.) It was now opinion. He cited cases in which tenants in Ireland r esx' li a-ne ' „ a nd the eight h . on. gentleman the member cre ditors t o - d r i ve th e i r ' d e bt or s' t o the poll or to prison. taken secretly? (Hear.) What Principle of the constitu - twenty-one years since the noble lord made a speech at had been hardly treated on account of their political ould be violated by enabling a man to exercise the Torquay on this subject and he hoped some friend might conduct. might be in attendance as they were (Cheers.) They permitted masters to discharge their ser- tion w . . perinade the noble lord 'to abide by that speech. The noble Mi. S. HERBERT said, in listening to the speech which he 8 8 1 1 ° .. in ! _waY connected with the transa:ction to which vants ; a n d they permitted a reign of terror to porvade the franchise with perfect freedom and absence of control ? coun t r y f rom one en d t o th e o th er , (Hear, hear.) That (Hear.) Thnse m, en who would be most ready to oppress lord then said-" Great as I apprehend the inconvenience thabon. member for Bristol had a ddressed to the house, dh • .1" df 1 . ' the camel. Inti- the voter might indeed fin t eir man mess an ee ings ,of the ballot would be, yet if it come to this, that I must he was struck by one peculiarity, namely, that diflaring kr, -,- . N eUMBERED ESTATES COURT. was straining at the gnat and swallowing tr ete 'a, FITZGERALD wished to ask the Chief Se- midatio . n was . the gianamalady o . f our electoral system ; in dreadfully shocked, but the electors themselves would re- either adopt such a meaeure, or see the tenantry of Eng- in thought from his previous speeches on the subject, joice exceedingly if such an a ct were passe d, (H ear , hear.) ' land ranged at elections, contrary to the feelings of them - there was- a consciousness on his part that how aeenZ tor Ireland, whether it is the intention of Go- comparison with it bribery was but a puny dwaif. The selves, I should have no doubt ; I should at once renounce evee, plaueible the theory of the ballot might be for the action of brib r y 's si plO ; they purchased a man's con- The second argument of the right hon. gentleman was 7 - I my opinion, and at once adopt the vote by ballot." The purpose of redressing intimidation, it was powerless with to e on :l t t° introduee a measure, i n the presen t session, science, and e man w m a and t et e n his vote. - Though bribery was fectly " stale, flat, and Unprofitable." (Laughter.) . e e o- 1 Nit, in . le the Powers of the Encumbered Estates indefensible, th ere m i g ht b e re d eem i ng f ea t u res in it. He thing could be mere P,harasaical. " I believe," sam tne . noble lord, no doubt, passed much of his time in the reg ard to bribery. H e ma d e hi s c ase with reg . ard to inti sir jwhich will otherwise soon expire had known a workm an redeem from pawn his box of tools right hon. gentleman, ' that with the ballot you would princely mansion of his brother, the Duke of Bedford, of ' D ictation by going back a very considerable period, and the ( love r ' YOUNG said it was th e 'i n t en tion of the through receiving an e l ee ti on b r ib e , H e had known me- have Plewkers and Frans - men of auickn" and judgment . whom he never heard it insinuated that be ever punished 1 p r i nc ip a l ev id ence h e a dd uce d o f the evil of intimidation, 3' a tenant for any vote he gave, or that he ever intimidated ' to which no man could be more opposed than he (Mr. S. tet re d n nient to introduce such a bill. and it would be dical aid furnish e d t o an a ili ng family through au election sent down from the Carlton Club to purchase vi,ters b uc ed In the House of Lords in a few days. any voter from voting against him. (Cheers.) Conse- Herbert), was given before a committee which sat not in dation ? (Hear.) Its action was complex ; bribe. But what redeeming feature was there in iutitni- wholesale in the small constithenciss on the principle of quently, the noble lord udght have so me excuse a t that 1853 but in 1835. He accused the noble lord of having kr Iti, A I JSTRA.LASIA.N COLONIES. its effects were , no return no pay." He (Mr. Berkeley) would admit that , early period for thinking that the tenants wonle not be slept the sleep of Rip Van Winkle, while the evils of inti e, e asury ` manifold. Its weapons were punishment ; and it worked 1 for the sake of argument. Bat, then, what would be done Tr •el -ANGLES wished to ask the Secretary ef the by that far-famed instrument, wholly and solely English lou the other eide ! Why, that the Coppocks would be : raneed at elections contrary to their feelinge. nut he midationhad been in operation since the Reform Bill. He "" arena 4 . wha t was the nature of the postal convention in its invention and appa ea ti oe , th e e l ec ti on screw , N ee d ! sent down to oppose the Flewkens and Frails. (Hear.) mat suppose that the 'noble lord, like Rip Vali Winkle, Gw r , n er k„l e y) mus t h a ve slept the sleet) of Rip Van aua the le exalting hetweee her MajestY's Government he tell the house wh a t th e e l ect i on serew was , a ud how it i i The Ceppocks would no doubt be armed with a good the evil of intimidation. must have s lept 20 y e ars, if he was not cognisaet et' ell the Winkla, in eot seeing the effect which public opinion had tr ansit - a '' i v ern ll leut of New Grenada, in regard to the worked? (Cheers.) It was a p ow „, w hi c h th e e l ec t ar I h e avy purse, and the electors. as then did low, would sell evidence that had been thmalTd into th e i r ears ever had since that time in rodressing since • and if he aid uot see and :emit flea ; the tenants- Flo recollected the tinie when the tate Duke of Newcastle w heth e ni • 'etters across the L4lllllllB of P ana ma ; and could hot resist. It commenced w ith aa i min aa t i„ n i n t o th e mselves to the higlie , t ladder. Bet the aallot would 1 '4,41, i , :i r t ) if inbe tru e th a t under such convent ion a very his private affairs, worthy of a Fond le or a Videcq, earlied. render the market uncertain, and people would not like to at-win were ra ngal u nder their separate leaders, and. led put boldly forward the theory that every man had a right to vote contrary t o th e ir own opinions and the good of the i• t o do as ha liked with his own," meaning that every man l'aya.l4 - ;'' '''f Posta , c (more, than five times as much as 1:4 •on ay the election agents • and when, by means ‘,f this risk their money in that way. Her Majesty's Govern • %iv, ' ` i n VI . l' - tt • t• •tt .1 n t , ~.. ' (-• e ~r, ransmi c( on account of' the his liabilities and misfort unes were laid went were pledgal to bring in a large measure of reform. community. Was it not notorious that the eleetare of the had a right to do as he liked with the consciences of other a th power became clear b h• y w ich he might be acted That measure of . reform waa " looming in the distance"- same estate voted f o, or Whig or Tory as it changed into the •I t --- - laye, depend en it, there Wag no man pcople , sev!:re inquisition, v , r,„ , "Lent of the United States) is ,payable to the Go- e z ",:,' ° ea king f the ssof ti off that it could ot Ibe system was to twist from the (laug,hter)-but it wa . . • ,) _ i y seen , 1 thes`e res motive •'' ‘9 ju u " `" - •- al with such a stateinent or hands of landlon . si . a_ _ opinions . (Hear.) alive who would come, forwa i ._ t _ . _ ' - ,''''t GI New (;r q/ada her Alajesty's Governi t u p — '-- r e wor • - o i ' nen re-• erte a , ~, s . - , ' free, wanly, and indeponacnt Englishman a dishonest vote. by ministerial telescopes. (L:toghtei . He W 01111110141.11110 , That was proved in evidence, and Mr W. . erd clearly showed justify such a proceeding. ele %%hat was he inference ,s ainly.. _ , - , 1 to take such steps to render the line (near.> Fourteen years tyro, in seconding Mr. Grote's uio- that this measure of reform would enlarge the suffrage, ; that the fact was so. (Hear, hear.) Who could he deaf to 1 that he drew from that ? Why, that the state of the '• -• a nei ,: e 'nieation in question practically available to tion, he had demonstrated . at some length on the mischiefa 1 and thus get rid of the -mall constituencus. (Hear, hear.) the evidence in the ease of the S. eith Notts election, where I public f aling was very much altered on that subject; that A oet ra l a ea Public for postal communication with the o f th e e l ec tion screw, and he. would .tate a few i ns t ances ilf th a t were so , th e n the argument of the right hen. gen- , th e tenants were led up to vote like so -many vermin ?1 a lua u i' o lt hp would shock Public opinion and damage his . .. , I r. ‘‘ '.7'an colonies and otherwise. which he then gathered from the cauvassiug book ef elec- 1 detrital had no force whatever. The right hon. gentleman (Hear. hear.) Was the noble loid deaf to idl this? WAS . own character it' he e ttenipted to put forward Ruch a state- Pesti on , 11-48(3 N said the statement contained in the lion agents. These books contained the names of th e eke_ I made a stock in trade of the T 1 . \\-1:-ers amid Frails, the Cop ,l he deaf to the state of things now e xi s ti n ,, , ,? 1 I ii 1 e ~,,e Ca.,.3(L inent 'as that he had a, right to interfere in til!lt manner ''Yrk., ( l . t : • V a'S quite t rue en d that the convention re. ton, either printed, lithograPhed, or in nialluecript. with i p ee k s an d Edwardsos, et 1 , 1 !;- .., ~ ~,,, 14. But: he regarded 1 u p o n the noble lord, as an boned man, to deny; if he w ith' th e franchise e f his tenants. He need. not give in -0 was still ' ' • their residences and avocations, against which was left a I these people in the lighl ot :, - 5 ,4 , whlich, by its escape, ; d ar ed, his conviction of the trutb t:f the repr e se n t a tie n 1 s t ances , -b ecause h o n, gentlemen must be aware 01 the elte iu opei•alion. • margin for the experieuced agent to enter his reinarko. g ave no ti ee o f th e p rese nor; or a corrupting body. (Hear, ! w hich he gave of the existing state of thing,s. (Hear, ra tion which 11341 been effacted by the pressure of public - 1 -‘lr. le,- CUSTOaIS• REVENUE. ee t. The bon. member for tenn a-tinan T.T,LIAMS wi I 1 k th' Cl ancellor of 1 • • The following wore some of. them :- .1 - I sa „ :`,-- °An ---) -,, nd-so, hear.) Let them get lid of t;10 festering body, and they ! hear.) If he could not, he called on the noble lord t o f u lfil 1 opinion. on that subj eeteh e s le: to as e ,- - publican, v o t es a gainst ns. I‘lein.'--rui , tne screw on ban would th en n ot su ff e r from the gas. (Hear, hear•) ' his , pledge, and to vote for the ballot. It was said that the bridgeshire was a proof that there, at any rate, tbe tenants tlf t e_ quer When the bill .to r^o•ulate the collection itl rono•li Mr ' So-and-so tlie spirit merchant, with whom flat they k-1 t a- t w4t -ring dunghill of corruption. 1 vote by ballot Was a 'measure of demo:-r a ti e i e .- a l e - Ic y • '',-,:, 1 th e i r c h o ice, otherwise he would llot he a member i . • axon:. sr . ~ lir)11:tieo Custom s Re VP ' '' ) •t' dtth ' t • '''' ' ' - ' 1 ' ht - ) " Thomas So d ' - '-} a ' rea t ' ' • ' ' ' 'ul 1 ht be h th •b - '-' ' ' - i l ew another hon. gentleman oppo -nue woutd be su Ani te 0 eihele in arrears." (Cheers ant tang or. - an • alio they found fault with the fungi that grew there .1 HOW 00 (t a so, wen eno le lord tole them that o f th a t house ; ant le s' 11 . .te ell 7 . Ce -es - I so, beershop-keeper, refuses to promise. Mora.- ~.,n\ a. akar.) He would now put, in bright aw e p a nn i n g ; itw „ to t h e e oo d sense , the moderation, and the wisdom site. the member for Nottinghemshire, who was returned arep ateeie Al\ CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER eaia the 1 ; lein in company with Mr. So-and - so , ths licensing magis- coutraet to these miserable shifts and arguments of l o f th e p eo ple that they owed the continuance"of their con- by the tenants in the teeth of the opposition of the land . hill waa un of the bill wa.s a considerable labour, hut the ; trate." (Laughter.) "Peter g 1 ,o-anc - so , cboesenumger, cabinet minister s th e a t a d g a t f„ rwar d d ec ia r eti o n of the I s titution? (Hear, heat) What preter na t tua l p„ wer was 1 la m a ; _e i e H on . Member - " Tito's are PxeePtions.")-Thii, 11 Pnii ti -ver Y nearlY corn 1 ' • eld b laid 1 s plits his vote. M e m,- Put the cheesefaotor 'Moe him to Sclicil, , r-Gener a i (ai r . R. B e th e l)). Th a t l ion . m i i,d. learned : there iii the ballot of converting loyal, wise, and i n o&rate many exceptions tended to , invalidate 3 rule, He colil,; re t a b le 1 p eted, and it woe e • x ception-itiniself. :in the ceunt7 which text Week. 1 in-lee him Plet"P-" (Laughter.) ~ Ab e l s o . an d- so , t a il or , gentkinan told the electors of 'S. 1 - 1) tl t" 't not ' ioto democrats, socialiets, and repnblicans? Wa ,, 4 th • , a.. .a yes nry la , i was men . . quore ano ei e. , ~ ~. . th , l--t' - I .' - 1 , 1- ; votes against Us. Mem.-Make9 Sir Thomas So-and - so's within his power to d escr ib e th e c h arac t er or the details ' the privilego of giving au enfettered vot e r eo i t ght ~ ,i,li h e hed th e houour to rePre'ehl ., t`-•' e t '-' 'ion '.'• l " "". • H / . 1 / 4; ._ ~_, Al WICH FT FCTION i li ver ies; apply to Sir Thoreca to compd hira to split, or llot of the reform measur e w hi c h th e m i n i s t r y was about to I curb 'consequences ? (Hear, hear.) Tho. cir..,,. 460 1,1! ' ' lce last. slimmer, a great many of the t ,, • ~, ,-- ~ted I,la L v r i • TI'ItELL a - I ' . ' ',., a ' ' 1 i , 1 arrant move- taat ~ne ,7n.atC.'r oo is3rie , vo,k a . • , . - • • + t all ' (I . auehter ) Be - could add instances o f this introduce, but he must say that the first element of 'such 1 w,.uld„ in his opinion, be the rest.)ral;, , , ~ . r ,-,- .1 , '' I :,:ainst . him, and amongst other, inali, c. , ,e1,,,t,i ~, new ~,,,_ ~ _to the Clerk o f t h e ''- t ' . ki n d nd iofinitton, with the namos of the Parties ; and; if a inoanire ought to be th e ex t ens i on o f th e f ranc hise, and , right. .'lts effeet would bo to carry ( m i. u ,,, ( i„ . .,, i i,:,„.',.. ` w l t h ' w h om he was connected- ManY te i aela wen' prekenenefor the electing of a b erown to make out a lie wore before an election :43inteittee, h e cou ld ca ll ee i. th e ne at th e possession of the ballot for the protectioo of t r i ne , a R en d er un to (ewer Hie thing); that are Crest:tea" tenants-at-will, men of substance who would think it a tb e roe t Parliament for tbe 1 urgess to serve in this d onee to prove the existence of that election screw to an ! the yam" Whereupon the e i n e eta an d eu di e nce called ;As to the ballot converting the Engli s h peop l e i n t o so d a . F „t, p i ece of impertinence on the Part of their landlord to awl etae ul e la of George y enta N emough of Harwich, 1 in I extent scarcely credible - certainly not believed l ea the out " Three Cheers for the ballot !" (Hear, hear.) Such ; H i t s an d d emocra t s g uc h a notion appeared to him stark interfere with them. Well, then, the bon. gentleman sir &section has been del: Varren Peacocke, n Es e" hon. members who opposed th a t mo ti on . m em ... ). pe e ono th en was th e opinion of the hon. and learned gentleinen, , rav i ng ma d ness , ebheers.) .He ehould glance at the: pro- thought ..thae . bribery was art awkwerd subject to deal . ', tiQ V. - NHELTYFIv ). mined to be void. are , o f b r ib e ry, there were 5,000 eases of intimidation. -the first minsal - ia the higheet 'Court o f j u die e ture in Eng- 1 ceedings of one election in England, r nd o f ano th er i n Ire. w ith, wee e etnellY nrloaised for it, saying what was very ect c ern _ , committee of five '''''''d ae an afnendment that I 'f t . ~,,„ „ un ifi e d through e , 7e-ry ,-,. rlde 'of society ; every lm , i• ( 1100. , hc ,, .) ."'och was also the ( - m inion ~ f gir . 1. • I land, fer the purpose of showing dial' ti, 6,11,0 ~ ,, z ,,A the t ru e, th;„ it a :,., ~ -t , -.'•t ~,, .• ~ : ' :-;, PTV! that therelwere terer Zitte e ..-f o Belection toulenthers be appointed by the 1.11311 w'n. , brought more or IL ~: i o , croW hid Wighbour. Bolnilly, the present :Master of tho Rolls.' Aud such ille , sures t, flue most oonstitutional, Protection agsinsi, violence what . ho cHled red..em.inis , i.ai,tag's il it. [Mr..il,llere,l,,N "tatie n of the i„,riulre into the b,tate of the Th e comm ittees took a course that appeared anomalous , oPinioli "f .•Nir• Page wo'l. cow Vice-Chanceilor. • (Hear. 1 and o eauption, and, as a remedy a..,-ain.,i i nt i m idation, far I made au obseivatiou avaoss the table which We did nOt, -- " )n ga of Harwich, Thi s a •• 1 Ith • b . t vas purity of election ; I hear.) It wae Pleaunt te he able to turn to Hansard for I better and more constitutional than surrounding the poll- , bear.] The redeeming quality was this, that a manuight na ridicu ous, i eir 0 jec N . P.k itLIA , 1 1 ENT borough stunk in the nostrils of the people, for the members returned for it were unseated at the gene ral election in 7tR4l, 1547, and 1352. This immacu lated the boronL,7ll , to - c it contained only 272;electorz, and. it was nothim.t. less than a hotbed of corruption. Mr. FERGURON seconded the amendment, as a mentber of the committee which had sat on this case. Mr. lIEADL A.M said in was cliairman of the com mittee, and he -gas bound to say that no ease of exten sive bribery or fweating was made out. Still there could be no doubt tin it great corruption had existed in Har wich but, um icr the circumstances he had stated. he 'lid not think 11 sere was sufficient ground for withholding the writ. • _ HOUSE OF LORD.—(YESTERDAY.) folln he Royal Assent was given by Commission to the wing bills :—The Consolidated Fund (4,000,00 . 0/.) ; Burghs tS:iotlandi ; the Sheriff and Commissary uourts (Berwickshire) ; tip, County Election Polls aulta (Bcotland v .r ) ; the S a l e o f B u lli on ; t h e A gJa vated. ; the C ar diff W aterworks ; the Sheff i eld Water the Li verpoo l ; the Li verpoo l B orough Court ; the Cambridg eu ` r "sitY and Town Waterworks : the Stockport Im nient ; th e Brig o wOr , ove ilit - Hone, and Preston ‘Vatcr ,,, ti " the Et itiburg git h Hi-street and Railway Sta " ; the Scottish Ventral Railway ; the Midland Rail- Act Am_lmp endment ; the Blackburn and Lay, with n'arbrick rovement ; th e Wolverhampton Markets 411 d Fairs, &c. t , The Lord s C ommissioners were—the Lord Chancellor, utPuke o f Argyll, and Lord Stanley of Alderley. Khe LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack tt five o'clock. The Earl of RODEN presented a number of petitions from the counties of Tyrone and Monaghan praying for ' 4e ...inspecti on o f nunneries. !LLord CAMPBELL presented a peti don front Monaghan g a inst the extension of the income tax to Ireland. The the le and l earned lord said he dissented entirely from prayer c f t h e petition. pfule Earl of ABERDEEN presented a petition from Yrnouth in favour of marriage with a deceased wife's aister, krt . KEOGH AND THE LATE GOVERNMENT. The Earl of E(LINTON said, in allusion to a state- T e .nt mad e the other night in this house by the noble rite at t h e head of the Colonial-office, that he was „u_thorised by Lord Nam to state that he distinctly and quivocally denied ever having offered or having been authorisedoeraiised to offer office to Mr. Keogh or any of his ti associates. GREAT EXTRA -MURAL CEMETERY ASSOCIA TION BILL. the motion that this hill be read a second time, tta l. d h :E w aLl ino f gARRowBy moved that the bill be that second time this day six months, on the ground_ .. direct contravention to the general policy seai on 46eerted by the Intra-Mural Interment Act of last The Bishop of LONDON supported the amendment. eord BEAUMONT thought that if their lordships the out the bill,at this stage they would be defeating le;l:viah..o.le object of their former extra-mural interment Lion. After a few words from several noble for 15, Their lordships then divided__ • For the secOnd reading—Contents 37 Non-Contents 36 . -1 The bill was then read a second time. 114C XNEYS CARRIAGES (METROPOLIS) Sir F. THEE NIGER Rupporte.l the original motion. Sri-. AGM) NBY Raid the house hart issued a writ in the Plymouth case, which was parallel to this, and he could see no reason for withholding the writ in the present instancaL • Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave it as his opinion that Harwich was ripe for disfranchisement, and, therefore, be recommende ci the house to pursue no half measure but disfranchise 3 the borough at once, as it must come to that at last. _ _ _ Mr. MASS3OY said it would be unconstitutional to issue the writ without previously inquiring into the cor rupt bargain upon which it was alleged the late member was retained fo r Harwich. Sir R. H. :INGLIS argued that the house had no right to withhold the writ, because the committee which had already sat; upon the subject, had reported that no thing had come out in evidence to justify the suspension of the writ. Lord J. RUSSELL could not agree with his honour able friend that. the house had no right to suspend the writ, because the house had exercised such a right since the period of the revolution. However, the question which the house had now to decide was this—ought they to make Harwich an exception to the other cases which the house had disposed of this session: The chairman of the committee which had sat upon the petition was of opinion that, nothing had been proved to justify their withbrilding the writ, but how was that ? (Hear, hear.) Why, the witnesses who could have proved extensive bribery, absconded, and the inquiry was therefore stifled. That was a strong reason why there should be'a further investigation, and he was ready to ♦ote either for that inquiry, or for a bill to disfranchise the borough, which he thought ought to be done for the sake of the character of the house. (Cheers.) In the meantime, however; the wilt ought to issue. Mr. WADDINGTON supported the issue of the writ. The house then divided. For the mo , i-.11 Against it. BILL. The report of a men d men t s on thi s bill was brought up. E 15th ar e W ALDEGRAVE moved the omission of the v ey i "use, which prohibited public carriages from con ng persons to hospitals who were suffering from any infectious, contagious or cutaneous disease. t _meter a few words from Lord STANLEY of Alderley, .e W ithdrew th e c l ause. LThe othe r amendments were agreed to. 11 P - t 'NI ) S IMPROVEMENT (IRELAND) BILL. 18ceurit CANNING brought up the report of the amen dments on this bill. THE WYCHWOOD FOREST BILL. -.La bill passed through committee. SLAVE LAW OF SOUTH CAROLINA. oft r9 3 EAUMONT moved for papers on the subject t r i, ; e,uetaining of coloured seamen and others, being 44( rt subjects, on their touching in South Carolina, kog e e t. called the attention of their lordships to the Ine ir i l l le Earl of CLARENDON expressed his regret that lu ny a .grievan ce ex i ste d, an d th a t a ll a tt em pt s to re the eit had failed. He assented to the production of bu t t a pars, though he feared that it would do little good, re e rustedt to r e n e w e d re monstrance and to time to LnedY evil. Their lordships immediately afterwards adjourned. 11 °17SE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.) 4 1 0 1 : 1 ,SPRAXER took the chair at a quarter to four T he f oil . in PRIVATE BUSINESS. bills were read third and assed : 1131 eY a w nd g a Bramley Road ; West Il time arptry p Road ; n t h_ °yen and Furness Junction Railway. e following bills were considered, and ordered to be 0, 4 7 a third t i me :—Alston Roads • Birmingham, and rl Junction, Birmingham, 'Wolverhampton, and D undee and Great Western Railways ; Edinburgh, Pe rth, Railway ; Limerick and Foynes Railway. ee ° Belfast Municipal Boundaries bill was read a ad time, and ordered to be committed. ROYAL COMMISSION. Yeoman Usher of the Black R od appeared at table and summoned the house to atten d at t he 7,, f the Peers to hear the Royal assent given 11com •tiorete several public and private acts, for whic h see report. Sir PETITIONS. th e " • WALMSLEY presented a petition in favour of . 0 4ir • N'ORDEN presented a similar petition from a Itt La the West Riding to the same effect. Illa t r ; J. ANDERSON presented a petition from a In Scotland, p ra yi ng f or th e inspection of nunnerie!. fax r. • CROSSLEY presented a petition from Hall ea•lnst the Registration of Assurances Bill. 114 4 :BRIGHT presented a petition from the drawing ties and artists of Manchester, complaining that par te 0 . 1 / 1 :1 „ i hat town took advantage of the School of Design it th " 'n educati on i n a r t who were well able to pay for k e mselve s . 1 % SCULLY presented a petition from the Ca .4oard of Guardians praying that the salaries of 4014 L aw medical officers may be charged on the Con ated lyi,„ A Fund, ttnp o r '`'•• PELLATT presented a petition from the me- R is • -tlad,, against the opening of the Crystal Palace on 4_ fir' 'a A 'MAR YTER presented a petition from the inhabi -111,-`,tr?e city of Wells in favour of the ballot. liirr i i, l / 4n •MOLEFIELD presented two petitions from ~aT. against the Registration of Assurances Bill. Lre ' - ' 4l -INES presented a petition to the same effect Bolto n , M r SULLIVAN presented a petition from Kilkenny at ~the Nunneries Bill. Inky r ' -I ° ,I ADFIELD presented a petition from the aldermen, and burgesses of Sheffield against the irrnment Educational Bill. i n fa; ll ' BRUCE presented a petition from Aberdare , ly ir eur of the ballot. ney a ' "OONER presented a petition from the attor eai.nnd soli c it ors of Warwickshire, praying for the re- Ail k . )f the attorneys' certificate duty. la presented several petitions from places • i i . . r a nd, in favour of tenant right. nf emig r a nt - krs in favour of ocean penny postage. count' J • BALL presented eight petitions from the s ; Y,ef Carlow , aainst the Nunneries Bill. niaeU .r d . v • SHEL LEY presented a petition from the favo ur engaged on th e new Palace at Westminster, in of the Combination of Workmen's Bill. , C RAUFURD presented two petitions from 1 1 " Jon Scotland in favour of the Nunneries Bill. tre k h e larquis of BLANDFORD presented a petition th e , hel sea against the sale of intoxicating liquors on rd s D a a st '"uR . 7 ,„a5r againREYS presented a petition from Mallow k the N unneries Bill. cede r J ACKSON presented a petition from Newcastle %rj'Yne against the Registration of Assurances Bill. Ireland• OUNG presented a/petition front a place in l against the Nunneries Bill. °I D o ' B ANES presented'a petition from the attorneys dlit y rs etshire, praying for . the repeal of the certificate at best, but a ref.,,t and for the outward semblance of integ. rity. (Cheers.) 01 , t!nSe grounds he (Lord Lennox) should vote against the mo.faon of his hon. friend. get money dishonestly provided he put it to a good pur pose. But was it true that intimidation was the gigantic evil of the elective system ? He (Mr. S Herbert) appealed to every gentleman in the house, whether during the last 20 years intimidation had not been diminishing, and whe ther, unfortunately, bribery had not been increasing. Since the Reform Bill intimidation had decreased. The pressure of public opinion, which was much stronger than acts of Parliament, had had its effect on intimi dation, but on bribery it had had as yet none. Need he ask the house to recollect all the dreadful cases of bri bery they had had this session ? This blot on our electoral system had become more prevalent , and not only candi dates but e l ec t ors seemed to think it was one of those offences which were venial, provided they were not found out. The hon. gen tl eman opposite said they wanted the ballot on account of its effect on Ireland, and that Ireland was the great seat of intimidation. Now, would the ballot in Ireland have the effect of preventing intimidation ? The hon. member for Leominster wanted to know what it was they objected to—bribery, intimidation, or the remedy? He (Mr. S. Herbert) objected to all three. He objected to bribery and intimidation, and he said the ballot was not the remedy for them. It was impossible to suppose that the fact of every man giving his vote in secret would necessarily cause it to continue secret. The struggles in Ireland were between the priest and the landlord ; the relation of the tenant with the priest was peculiar, and the relation with the tenant was common. Unless the ballot enabled the tenant to be independent of both their remedy would be useless. In England, with a tyrannical landlord or a tyrannical customer, as the hon. gentleman described, the ballot would lead to a system of espionage, because, supposing the ballot turned out to be a system of perfect secresy, then the political opinions, the political associates of every man would be canvassed, and it would be natural to suppose that he had voted according to his political opinions. He was not afraid of intimidation, be.. cause public opinion would be too strong for it, but h. asked, would the ballot be effective in putting down bribery ? A candidate who now went down to a borough might spend a great deal of money uselessly, but have the ballot and it would be a question of play and pay ; the candidate would say, " I pay if I am returned, but not if lam not returned.' At present a candidate bribed a man and got merely his vote ; with the ballot he made the man who was to be bribed his agent, and he made it his inte rest not only to give him his vote, but to make others give theirs ; they would canvass for him How would this act upon the voter ? Why, the voter, who was sometimes now deterred by the fear of detection, would have this mantle of darkness thrown over all his proceedings, and might be induced to vote in a way which otherwise he would not do. How was it that bribery was generally found out now ? The first thing was that generally a number of men came to the poll about ten minutes before it closed, and gave their votes. The agent or the opposing candidate said, "why here is so and so, who has been yellow all his life, voted for blue, or has been blue all his life, and voted for yellow ?" Investigation ensued, and ultimately the bribery was brought home to him. But under this system of secresy the imputation of a corrupl motive could not be suggested ; no one would know how any one had voted ; no suspicion would be awakened, and there would be no reason for making those inves tigations which resulted in a committee up stairs, and ended sometimes to the great dissatisfaction of honoura ble members. If that were so ' they gave the candidate the advantage without the risk of losing his money, and they gave to the voter the possibility of voting without the chance of detection ; and so far from the ballot tending to diminish the chance of bribery, it would give every in ducement to the candidate to bribe, and enable the voter to be bribed without discovery. The hon. gentleman said why not give this right to the poor man which in clubs the higher classes habitually used. Now, one of these was for political, and the other for social purposes. The object of a ballot in a club was to enable them to act on predilec tions which they might not be able to justify, but which they bad a right to exercise, for this reason—that every body had a right to choose the persons that he would asso ciate with. A man had a right to select his associates, without giving any public reason, and without being called on to give any justification for the aversion or prejudice he entertained. But in public functions a man must feel his responsibility. It was nothing to tell him there was no responsibility in giving a vote. Why, to vote for a mem ber of Parliament was to constitute the fountain head of of political power. Talk about the rights of the demo cracy. These were the duties of the democracy as well as the rights ; and if the voters were to exercise the franchise, they must exercise it for the benefit of the public under the responsibility of public opinion. There was no reason in the world why they should adopt the theory of the hon. gentleman; but it was because the franchise was a public trust, and the source of public power, that he desired to see that it did not tend to vitiate our public system. The hon. gentleman said that some persons confounded demo cracy with the ballot, and that it was said you could not have the one without the other. It was true that if you had the ballot, one great areal ment against universal suff rage was lost. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman quoted the case of foreign countries, and said they were arguments and proofs in favour of the manner in which the ballot would work in this country. He need not have gone so far. That system was not confined to clubs—it, was adopted in the parish of Marylebone in the election of vestries under Hobhouse's Act. Elections of that kind in Marylebone differed in nothing from ordinary political elections, and were carried on with the same vehemence, the same acrimony, and party spirit • and there was an entire openness of proceeding, everybody's vote was well known, and if any one was persecuted, or any custom lost, they were acted on in just the same way as if there were open voting. Then with regard to America, Mr. Tremen heere, in his work on America, gave up the notion of secretly in vote by ballot ; and said. that the mode of taking votes in the United States was open and ostenta tious ; that the ballot was a good mode of taking rapidly and easily the votes of a vast population ; but any no tion of secresy was quite given up, and no attempt was made at concealment of the political predilections of voters. He said that " the t,rm ballot in the United States meant nothing more than a mode of taking votes, which were openly and ostentatiously given." Now, In this country there were scrutineers for the purpose of striking off bad votes, such as the persons who voted had no right to give. Under the ballot how could that be clone, how could it be ascertained who had or who had not a right to vote ? That system must be put out of the question. Look at the working of that plan in that re spect in America. It was stated by a writer on the subject, " that there were many false votes given, and in the case of a candidate who had obtained the promise of the votes of half the constituency he was yet beaten by a majority greater than the whole constituency put together." (Hear.) Again, it appeared from the evidence of an American that the system had only changed the course of corruption, and instead of buying hundreds of voters, the plan was (and this was an improvement he, Mr. Herbert, did not think we in this country would adopt immediately, for it would require a little time for ingenious men to invent devices of the kind)—the plan was only to buy one or two of the judges with whom the result of the election rested ; and there was no means of detecting them in making false that which could only be done by a scrutiny of the ballot box ; and there was nothing to prevent the abstraction of one kind of tickets and the substitution of others. That then seemed to be the common practice, and that was the sys tem which was said afforded the greatest security to voting. He would read an extract from the message of the Gover nor of the State of New York to the Legislature, in 1850, in which he said that " the alarming increase of bribery at elections was a subject worthy of their attention ; that the preservation of their liberties depended on the purity of elective franchise as exercised by the citizens, and he trusted they would adopt measures to protect whom—the voters ? not at all ; but effectually to secure the ballot-box from corruption—so that after adopting the system in this country the hon. gentleman the member for Bristol would have to bring on motions not to protect the voter, but the ballot-box, which he himself had introduced. His (Mr. Herbert's impression was, that there was one state in the Union in which there was compulsory secresy in voting. In the United States the ballot was used as a means of rapid voting, but the system of compulsory secresy was so far from being universally adopted that it was, in most cases, considered hateful, and strong arguments were used against its introduction into the other states. The hon. gentleman said that he would have it compulsory. But how was he to do it ? How was he to compel secresy among men proud of their resistance to power and to the blandishments of authority ; how was he to prevent them from going up to the ballot-box and stating for whom they were going to vote. It was not in the nature of the English character for a man to skulk behind a mask when he was doing an act of which he was proud. (Hear, hear.) Sydney Smith, in his admirable pamphlet on the ballot, which he (Mr. Herbert) wished it was consistent with the rules of the house to have read by , the clerk at the table—(a laugh)—for it would be better than any speeches or arguments, humorously asked how you were to get an English voter to conceal his opinions ; in that case he must hurrah at the wrong dinner, drink the wrong beer, and break the wrong head. The hen. gentleman (Mr. Berkeley) said that the English were not garrulous; but were they apt at concealing acts of public duty ? He (Mr. Herbert) would say, being half an Irish man, that although on the other side of the Channel taci turnity was not their forte, it was possible they would not divulge the nature of their votes. But for an Englishman to acquire the powers of concealment necessary to this sys tem of voting, he could become such a hypocrite as to make it doubtful whether he would be entitled to exercise the franchise. It could not be kept out of sight what an effect would be wrought on the national character and institu tions if this system of perfect secresy was obtained. How was public opinion to be formed among the constituencies if every man's opinion was concealed ? It would go to the root of our whole political system. The case was different in France, although he preferred to take America for the purposes of comparison, because the people came from the same stock, and the operation of certain influencies on them would be more akin to that on the minds of English men. Bat in France the political srstem was exactly the opposite of ours. It was a common phrase among French men, " faut ecraser rirulividuel." That was not our 83 s tem ; nod we did not put our political system into a state shape. If that was abandoned it would be contrary to the spirit of our free institutions—contrary to the spirit of our Saxon institutions, which were so consonant with liberty ; and if we were to adapt the English character to a system which would render men ready so to abrogate their rights and their duties as to perform them under the veil of secresy, you would demoralise the English character, and sap the very foundation on which our liberties were built. Ile did not speak thus from any fear of the immediate effect of the ballot in the loss of the influence of wealth. of public virtue, or station. He believed that it would make no very sensible impression on the return of members. He did cot object to the system in a party or political point of view, but because he believed it would tend, by destroy ing the self-respect of the constituency, to strike a blow at one of the best qualities of the national character, which was created by the exercise of public functions, whether in high or in humble life, and which required a fearlessness which bad been given to the national character—a stability which was inconsistent with a system of concealment. Actuated by these feelings he should vote against the in troduction of the measure. Lord A. LENNOX opposed the principle of the ballot, denying that secresy would be preserved under such a sys tem. He denied that it would put a stop to bribery, and although be was of opinion that the bribery at the last election was a scandal to the country, and he would be ready to coincide in auy measure that would put a stop to it, yet he did not believe that the ballot would have that effect. An ancestor of his, whom the noble lord opposite, in a re (put work, had called "The reformed Duke of Richmond; had expre,,, , ,, , d an opinion which he thought was well de ,,erving of attention. Hu ;3.liii that the idea of the ballot could only have ani-n froi IA :I tl, avoid some improper influences ; and 1.a. , conceived that it was much nobler openly to check such influences than t o see k t o evade them by concealment and deceit—it was more consistent with-the character of Englishmen openly to express their opinions than to indicate in a secret manner those whom they wislied to entrust with their Suffrages.• wag, in fact, about En (Cheers.) • There glishmen an open and straightfor t character well suited to the dignity of freedom • and would t -e most unwise and d angerous t o public morality to pass a law, the essence of which was meanness and ser vility, and which would inculcate a disregard for truth, or, Mr. COBDEN remembered that about nine years ago he brought forward a motion in that house, on which he had bestowed more than usual troub:e and attention, and which time and experience had since proved to have been founded in sound and true policy. He rensembered that the right hon. the member for Wiltshire, who was then in the Cabi net., and the colleague of older and shrewder heads, was put forward to answer that speech, which was accompanied by some memorable circumstances. Now the right hon. gentleman was a little older, but he had haidly gained much wisdom from experience—(laughter)---for he had done precisely the same office now that he did then for older and more sagacious colleagues. He had 310 w taken up the defence of a question which had been as completely established by reason and argument as free trade had been in 1814 (cheers) —and he ventured to predict that the right hon. gentleman would live to make as manly a disa vowal, after he had seen by experience the results of the ballot, of the opinions he had expressed that night. (Laughter and cheers.) This question, he (Mr. Cobden) repeated, had been settled by reason and argument ; and if they were discussing the ballot simply as a question affect ing a body of men, all of whom rested Upon a social equality, there could not even then be one argument or reason sug gested why it should not be adopted. (Rees, hear.) Hide as they might—conceal it even from themselves, if they could—the fact was that they opposed the ballot because they et.terecl upon a discussion of it with a latent idea that it was the duty of somebody to know how somebody else voted. (Cheers.) But if a b o d y of men —if 500 i n dividuals were placed in one a p ar t men t , and they wished to know honestly the opinion of the majority of those meu ; if no one had right or power, or pretension, to exercise any un due influence whatever, or any mastery over them, except what he derived from argument and reason, they would not find one of those 500 men that could say why the ballot should not be adopted. (Hear. hear.) The right hon. gentleman had given them some arguments with which he (Mr. Cobden) would now proceed to deal. And in the first place he must correct the as sumption of the right hon. gentleman that any one who had spoken before him had admitted that the ballot would be totally inoperative to put down bribery. What had been admitted by all its advocates was that it was per fect as against intimidation, and that it was a very potent obstacle to bribery. But the right hon. gentleman went further, and said that bribery might be an increasing evil, but that intimidation, owing to the operation of public opinion, was decreasing with the lapse of time- He com pared the present period with 1833 ; and said that we had very much improved upon the state of things then, for po pular opinion had to a certain extent pus down intimida tion. He (Mr. Cobden) denied that. What had been done was, that the counties, in a vast majority of cat es, had so far succumbed to intimidation, and had so stir become sub servient to territorial interest, that they had ceased to make any struggle for independence. (Cheers.) Talk of intimidation having diminished ! Was it not the recog nised principle and etiquette in county canvassing, that it was an insult to large proprietors to canvass their tenants without first obtaining their perm . on ? iss (Cheeas.) Would anybody deny that ? Why, he had heard of one case, in which there were two proprietors of rival pretensions, where there was a quarrel, and some talk of a duel, in con sequence of their having poached upon each other's manor. The counties, before the Reform Bill, were the strongholds of liberal opinions in this country. There were members for counties who took their stand on that side of the house in defence of all our old constitutional freedom, and it was mainly county members that had carried the Reform Bill itself. (Cheers.) Why, then, had such a complete change taken place ? They could scarcely now point to any county where a contest, however hopeless, had been attempted on liberal and reforming principles. (Hear, hear.) The simple cause was, that they had given the proprietors such power by the control of their tenants' votes, that the free holders, the ancient stronghold of popular rights, had been swamped by a body of men, the most dependent and the most subservient politicians they had in tne country. (Cheers and murmurs.) They had had the experiment tried. In South Northumberland, in North Northumber land, in Hertfordshire, in Herefordshire, and in West Surrey, they had had contests ; and whether or not there had been any diminution of intimidation, let the right hon. member for Morpeth answer. (Cheers.) He would call Sir George Grey into the witness-box. [The hon. member then quoted a hu-tings' speech of Sir George, in which he complained that the name of those who had ex ercised undue influence over their tenants, against him was " Legion."} But it was the same on the other side. Ho found in a local paper this statement :—" Lord Ossulston and Lord Lovaine address the people from the windows of the White Swan." (A laugh.) Lord Ossuiston, speaking of the Beaumont and other influence in South Northum berland, said—" Mr. Liddell went up to one of the polling places, where he sat with the patience of "Job, for three hours, hearing vote after vote recorded against him. At last a single elector polka' for him, and he rose and publicly thanked the voter, to the surprise of all who did not know that he was present. A short time after wards, one of the voters who had polled against Mr. Liddell, came up to him, and taking him by hand, said, " I have been compelled to vote against you, but it is a d—d bad business." (Laughter.) I have given you the man's own language, for I think the profaneness of the expression is redeemed by its honest sincerity. (Great laughter.) Lord Lovaine also complained that the Green wich Hospital estate was canvassed by his opponent in company with a Government commissioner, and that the tenants had given their votes against him (Lord Lovaine), although they were in his favour. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Cobden) might call attention to the case of Hertford shire ; but in every case they would find the same ter rible intimidation practised. Indeed, the counties had ceased to exist for all purposes of useful discussion or manly contest. (Loud cheers and murmurs.) Well, now, let them go to Ireland, where county contests had been renewed. Had they seen any failing anywhere of this horrible intimidation in Ireland, by the priests on one side and the landlords on the other? (Hear.) Why he had begun at one time to cut extracts out of the papers giving records of these cases, but he had thrown up the task in sheer despair, for it was all intimidation and violence in Ireland. (Cheers.) So much so, that the United Service Gazette stated that 30,000 soldiers and police had been kept actively employed throughout the late elections, and that they had visited 182 polling places during the contest. (Hear, hear.) Was that a state of things to be passed over or to be remedied ? (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentle man said they could not remedy it in Ireland unless they passed such a measure as would protect the people both from the priests and the landlords. But what did they want to protect them against ? They wanted to protect, voters against any coercive influences that should compel them to vote against their will. (Hear, hear.) He might be told that the influence of the priests would be exercised in a ptivate manner—in a manner which, whatever it might seem to them, they neither could, nor had they a right, to interfere with. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Cobden) did not ask them to protect a man against a voluntary in fluence. He denied their right to prevent any man from taking counsel from those whom he knew, or supposed to be better able to advise him than he was to instruct him self. (Hear.) But this he did say, place a man in such a. position that he might either follow or disobey, as he pleased, the instructions of those who undertook to guide him, whether they were landlords or priests. They had had, however, on the previous night, an explosion from the honourable member for Enniskillen (Mr. Whiteside) from which it appeared that there were some influences exerted by priests which were not volun tarily submitted to. He (Mr. Cobden) had heard of a Roman Catholic who had voted against the wishes of his priest, and his seat in the chapel had been torn up in consequence. Now that was a species of in timidation calculated to make a man vote against his conscier.ce ; and so if they had the ballot it might protect a man, to some extent, even against the influence of the priests. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, he said, lot them try the ballot. (Cheers.) The right hon. gentleman told them that it would be no remedy against bribery. He stated that bribery would be carried on wholesale—that one of your Parliamentary agents would go down to a town and say to a number of people, " If you can return So-and so I will give you so much to divide amongst you ; but unless he is returned you have nothing." Now his (Mr. Cobden's) answer to that was, in the first instance, that they (lid not intend to have any of these little manageable boroughs. (Cheers.) It might be perfectly true of such places as Wilton or Shoreham. for instance. But he would put it to the house, could any Parliamentary agent go down to such towns as Birmingham or Manchester, where there were constituencies of 5,000, or 10,000, or 15,000 electors, and buy them up wholesale ? (Cheers.) With so large a number to be represented, 26,010,000 persons to be repre sented by 658 members, they would have under the new Reform Bill—unless it was to be a mere sham and pretence —none but large constituencies ; and he would appeal to the house whether it was possible to buy constituencies of some 8,000 voters each? (Cheers.) It had r ever been done under the open system, and it would certainly not be done under the ballot. (Loud cheers.) The right hon. gentleman had touched upon the ballot at the clubs, but he had not been very happy in explaining why they were indulged in that luxury while the people were not to have it. (Hear.) It was said that in clubs they dare not vote openly ; but really if any improper person were proposed for the only club in London to which he (Mr. Cobden) belonged, he should not hesitate to vote against him to-morrow. (Hear, hear.) It might be very inconvenient no doubt to vote openly ; but were they to shield themselves against this slight inconvenience when they would not allow the same privilege to the masses? (Hear, hear.) Nor was the prac tice confined to the clubs. The East India Company voted by ballot, and he did not find any pr ovision in the new bill to prevent them from continuing to do so. Twenty years ago the magistrates for Devonshire adopted it in elections for their chairman, and those of East Sussex in the election of a chief constable. The noble lord opposite said that the ballot would destroy the national character. Did that apply to these magistrates? (Hear, hear.) But he found in a Breconshire newspaper an account of an archery meeting, and in that too he found a ballot for members. In fact, there was no country in the world in which the ballot was so much used. The right hon. gen tleman seemed to think that the secret voting was intended to be compulsory ; but when the bill passed a voter might, if he pleased, cover his hat with the name of his favourite candidate, or shout it at the top of his voice. All they co ntemplated was such a provision as shOuld enabl e every bodyelse knowing h ow h e vo t e d . ( s C bo li v e e ers .bo . ) ard n r o a s r e tt a i v a h n o st ch m o i s g e h to t d b o e s c o a ; nya bu ss t er th s, e or nu o m pe to vote without anybody bi rand f those who took an open, and prominent, and noisy part in these public discussions and con t en t s was a very- small fraction indeed. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman said that the ballot was not popular in America He could state, from some little acquaint a n ce w ith Am'erica, i t n ha w n hi a ch po i l t iv p ic r a e l va m il ad ed m , w an oul . d (H be ea e r d , n h si e d a e r re .) d as lt that any politician there who pr o p ose d t o a b o li s h th e b a ll o t in little an y betterstate was the cardinal article of their political faith ; and there never had been an instance of a state which had adopted the ballot having departed from it, but the tendency had been constantly the other way. (Hear, hear.) At the present moment there were not more than one or two, and those slave states— Virginia was one—where the ballot was not tolerated. (Cheers.) Much had been said about the cur ruption of the last election. That was patent to the world, and they all admitted it. It was not merely bribery and corruption in the ordinary sense of the word that they had to deal with ; the great blot and disgrace of our electoral system was the blackguardism and bullying that prevailed at those contests. At Oldham it was stated by Mr. Fox's chairman that his supporters would not have been able to vote at all, had they not crept down by-roads to the poll ; and some actually went to Manchester and returned by another train that it might not be observed that they were but for days and wee k s going to vote. At Blackburn there was not me re l y. open violence on the day, of election, afterwards the blackguardism was kept up, people vieate carried off, and all sorts of violence were committed. Tn one ease a gun was fired, and two shots were lodged in the ‘ , l an sadividual. Was that an English, was i t a desir- ~~ 3 " , 0 I ' • A ~.~