The Sun. — London, England, 1832-08-08 00:00:00

was in cons, quence of that be smilea, and not in respect of the subject to which the Hon. Alderman was adverting. Mr. Ald. WAITHM AN resumed. - With respect to the Committee, it was quite apparent the Right Hon. Gen tleman had lost ground, for before it evidence had been brought forward which distinctly proved the existence of unequalled distress in various parts of the country as well as at Spitalfields. But look at the unfair way in which the Committee was named ! why, it was as well known at first how votes would be as it was at last ; vet, after sitting four months, after having received upwards of 12,000 answers, it was attempted by the op ponents to reject the whole by bringing forward fresh evidence, at least what was called fresh evidence, but the parties had actually been in the Committee Room every day of its sitting. The Hon. Member for Middlesex attempted to get rid of the whole business, because they could not carry their favourable plans of reducing the duty on thrown ,ilk. Mr. ROBINSON, when he observed the mass of evi dence that bad been laid upon the table, and considered that no report had been made upon the subject, could not help thinking that that omission was occasioned by the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo•ite not being able to procure a report conformalde to his own opinion. Mr. P. THOMSON—I was most anxious that there should he a report. and as a proof of it I have only to state, that when the Hon. Member for Roas-slire to adjourn the Committee, fearing that we could not get through the evidence, I opposed the motion, in tie hope that when the evidence was gone thrr ugh, a report would he founded on it. Mr. ROBINSON said it was unfortunate that the re port had not been made. Gentlemen generally looked at the report, and not at the evidence, and he feared that the great mass of useful evidence taken on this occasion would he lost. It seemed to him that Government were depart ;ng, from the great leading principle acted on by every other Government of Europe—that of providing for its working population. He could not see why so much in dulgence should be extended to France. The whole of her commercial regulations were opposed to those free prin ciples laid down by this country, and which we vainly at tempted to induce her to adopt. Again, let then, look at the conduct of the United Stares. That country, he would assert, outstripped us as much in their legislative measures as we outstripped them in fire arts. They pro ceeded with reference to their commerce, on a foundation very different from that which we took. They had, it was true, modified their tariff, but they still had left suffi cient protection (or their manufactures against foreign competition. Dr. Bowring bad been sent to Paris for the purpose of gaining information. Now be thought that he was not the most eligible person to be selected, because the bias of his opinion was very well known, and he (Dr. Bowring) imagined that the liberal sentiments which he heard uttered in certain circles were the sentiments of the whole French people ; but such, assuredly, was not the fact. He would tell the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite that the authoritative manner in which he (Mr. Thomson) spoke upon these subjects was not pleasing to the manu factoring and commercial world. Lord PALMERSTON, after censuring the liiseuision of evidence which was not in the hands of Members, pro ceeded to observe, *hat an insinuation had been thrown out that the French Government had encouraged some esta blishments on their coast, for the express purpose of facili tating smuggling. That assertion, he was sure, was not founded in fact. There was such a good understanding between the two Governments, as 1, d him to believe that of France would not sanction a deliberate violation of the laws of this country. With respect to France and America, if the Hon. Member (Mr. Rnbins.on) supposed that the administrations of these countries did not partici pate in the liberal Ad enlightened commercial views of the British Government, he was very much mistaken. Much had been said about smuggling. In his mind, the true en couragers of smuggling in this country were those who up beA duties inconsi,tent with the interests of commerce,— who, endeavouring blindly and absurdly to effect impossi bilities,—to prevent the introduction of foreign manufac• titres, gave in effect a large premium to those who were engaged in smuggling transactions. Mr. SADLER supported the petition. Mr. S. MACKENZIE def.tnded the Committee in the course which it had adopted. After a few observations from Mr. Alderman W./aril MAN, Mr. Alderman VENABLES, and Lord D. STUART, the petition was brought up and read, and ordered to be printed. Lord D. STUART presented petitions from the manu facturers and throwsteis of silk in Macclesfield, and from the silk manufacturers of Spitalfields, respecting the Silk Committee, and praying for protection tor the silk trade. Ordered to lie nn the table, and to be printed. _ . Mr. BERRIES, in a low conversational tone of voice across the table, was understood to ask the Noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, what were the intentions of Government with respect to the distribution of the fund received from the French Government, for the indemniti catiun of British subjects for the loss of property unduly confiscated by the French Authorities, and whether that distribution was to be effected by a new Act of Parliament, or by commission issued by the authority of the Crown. Lord ALTHORP was understood to state, in reply, that it w.is the intention of Government to tffect the dix tt in question, not by a new Act of Parliament, dint by a new Commission. Colonel EVANS presented petitions from New Sarum, ood from Ryde, in the Ise of Wight, praying that the House would take into its consideration the case of unfor tunate Poland. Mr. HU:SIE presented a similar petition from Bridge water and its vicinity. POLAND. Colonel EVANS then rose to bring forward the reso lotion of which he hal given notice on this subject. That motion merely went to assume that which was an unde triable fact.—namely, that England had completely fulfilled the treaty of 1815, and to deduce from that fact this con sequence, that under such circumstances England was en titled to call on any other Power which had been a party to that treaty, to fulfil the obligations which it had thereby contracted. lie did net think that it was possible for hint to expect any opposition on the part of Government to a motion 'of that description. He did not bring this mo tion forward, as it was his intention to do, and in stronger terms, in the Committee on the Russo-Dutch Loan, a the Noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had re ejuested him to introduce it in a separate and distinct shape to the House. It was only necessary for him to de tail the conduct purstoal by Russia since the last subjuga tion and overthrow of Poland,—a conduct that exhibited profligate violation of all engagements and of all ph dges, however sacred,—to induce the House to agree to his mo tiori. After the amnesty granted to the Poles, on the re preaentation of the Governor of Galicia, and at the request if Austria, the Pelee, who had fled into Galicia for protection, • urned to Poland on the faith of that am re, 'nesty. Immediately on their return an ukase was issued by the Rwsian Government, condemning all those Poles who had borne arms against Russia in the Polish insurrec tion, either to serve as privates in the Russi in army, wher ever Russia pleased tosend them, or to be thrown into prison. The consequence of the promulgation of this tyrannitail edict was, that a number of Poles dal back into Galicia for protection. The Austrian Government, thinking that their presence there would be productive of inconvenience, resorted to measures, either to prevent their entrance into Galicia, or to prevent them from remaining there. But people of Galicia, united to them by that sympathy whial; a proximity of territory produced, were moved on hebalf of the unfortunate Poles. The Diet of Galicia can tldress the Emperor of Austria through the medium of the;; Governor, and it appears that 300 members of the Diet of Galicia drew up a representation on this subject, and cent it thi ough their Governor to be transmitted to the Emperor. He did not know whether that address had been trausmittad to the Emperor or not, hut this he did know, that it was an authentic document,—that it was signed by the principal persons in Galicia, resident on the frontiers of Poland, and who must be considered good authorities as to what had recently taken place in Poland ; and it was a remarkable fact, that it corro borated all the statements made in a former debite in that House, with regard to the atrocious conduct of Russia towards Poland. The Hon. Mernhei here read several extracts from the document, in proof of the cor rectness of his statement. He then proceeded to say, that it was quite true, as had been eloquently said by an Hon. and Learned Friend of his, the Member for Louth (Mr. Shell) in a former debate on the Russo-Dutch Loan, that " there was a time when we [night have interfered—when an Admiral in the Baltic might have interceded with more eloquence than a Minister at St. Petersburgh," and that now that- Poland Laei perished, we could not avail our selves of her misery, " to mike an entry of her wrongs in our fiscal ledger, to convert them into items of sordid cal culation, and to balance the account with Poland's best and noblest blood." The Hon. Member then went on to argue, that the convention of 1815, on the faith of which the payment of the Russo-Dutch Loan was continued to Russia, was inseparably connected with the whale of the general treaties bent e.n the Allied Powers in 1811. and 1315 ; and that one of the stipulations of those treaties was the preservation of the narional indeiientlence of Po land. He begged to ask what had been the conduct of Russia ever since ISIS? Had it been that of a civil and faithful ally towards this c. untry, or had it net been directly the reverse? Immediicely alter Napoleon had been put down, Russia at once declared that her at mies should retain possession of Poland, and should not give it op until she had re-established her power there, and her doing so at the moment that the general treaty was under consideration was, as the Noble Lord opposite knew, almost the cause of the breaking out of a new war on that occasion. The subsequent conduct of Russia had been one series of unjustifiable aggressions on other nations—of territorial aggrandizement, and of violations of national law and na tional faith. The war with Persia, and the subsequent war with Turkey, were both instances of unjustifiable ag gression on the put of Russia in the first instance, and the result of both those was the territorial aggrandizement of that overgrown Power. Russia, it was well known, was the principal moving power in preventing the establish ment of constitutional Governments in Naples, Piedmont, and the other States of Italy in 1923 ; and it was equally well known, that it was principally owing to the it floence of Russia that France sent that unjustifiable expedition which she despatched into Spain. Next came the case of Poland, and it was not necessary for him to dwell upon the atrocious conduct of Russia in that instance. The object of his motion was to give support and strength to those negotiations which he knew were at present being carried on by one of our• Cabinet Ministers with Russia, and after those few observations he should conclude by moving the resolution of which he had given notice. The Hon. Member then moved the following resolution :—" That in conformity to the spirit, though contrary to the letter, of a treaty dated 19th of May, 1815, his Majesty has agreed to renew certain obligations to the Emperor of Russia ; that said treaty and obligations were connected with, or arose out of, the general treaties between the Allied Powers of 1814 and ISIS; that therefore, in the opinion of this House, the convention to the above effect affords his Ma— jesty a special claim on the power profiting by it, for it faithful interpretation of other engagements, to which both parties may have been contracting parties, and espe cially with regard to that concerning Poland." Lord PALMERSTON should feel it his duty to move, as an amendment on his motion, the previous question. Though he was ready to admit that there were some por tions of that resolution which it was impossible, as ab ,tract propositions, to deny—sucb, for instance, as that this country, having faithfully fulfilled its engagements, teas entitled to claim on the part of other countries the fulfilment of theirs—yet he was not prepared to affirm that abstract proposition, coupled as it was with other propositions contained in this resolution, and accordingly, without negativing it, he would, for the purpose of getting rid of it, move the previous question. He was exceedingly adverse to the joining, as this resolution went to do, the fulfilment of our bounden engagements as to the Russo- Dutch loan with the conduct of Russia towards Poland, and he was sure that the House would thihk that he (Lord Palmerston) should best discharge his duty by not adverting to the observations which had been made on that subjet in a former debate. The Hon. Member. however, who had introduced this motion, having ad verted in very strong anti condemnatory terms to the conduct pursued by Russia since the peace of 1815, he (Lord Palmerston) felt it his duty, o❑ this occasion, to do justice to a Power in alliance with this country, and he should therefore trouble the House with one or two oliservations in that point. The Hon. Mein her had alluded to the wars with Persia and Turkey, and bad characterized them as one series of aggressions on the part of Russia. Now he (Lord Palmerston) had paid some attention to those in titers, and he felt bound to say, that in both those cases Russia was not the aggressor, but that Persia and Turkey had each respectively provoked the attack made on them. He would not go into a dis cussion with the Hon. Member as to the influence of Russian councils on the conduct of Austria in Italy, anti of France in Spain ; the Hon. Member's observations on that point were only founded on surmise. The Hon. Member might be right, or he might be wrong, in his surmises; but, at all events, as the question was not one of actual fact, he (Lord Pahnersten) should not discuss it with him. Whatever, too, might be the questio❑ that might be raised as to right or wrong with regard to the violation of the constitution of Poland, there could be no doubt that the first hostile aggression was on the part of Poland, by a hostile resistance. Those who considered Poland aggrieved, of course maintained her unquestion able right of resistance on that occasion, but he ❑ow merely stated a simp:e matter of fact—namely, that the first hos tile aggression was on the part of Poland. On these grounds, he should oppose the resolution moved by the Hon. :Member. Sir C. WETHERELL would oppose the original mo tion, and vote for the amendment moved by the Noble Lord. Mr. 11UNIE supported the original motion, and asserted that the conduct of Russia ever since 1515 had been but one series of violations of those engagements which sh© bad then entered into with the other Powers of Europe. He denied that the aggression was made in the first instance ou the part of Poland. Poland had been driven to des peration by the tyranny of Russia, and she flew to arms for redress. The Noble Lord onght Ling ago to have given to the House some explanation as to what had been done by Government to make Russia fulfil her engage meats with regard to Poland. He denied that in the war of Russia with Persia, Persia had been the original ag gressor. On the contrary, be would assert that it was the opinion of every one connected with India, that Russia had been the aggressor in that instance ; and though Mr. Canning, then at the brad of our Government, did not in terfere on behalf of an ally to whom we were bound by treaties, it was not because he did not consider that war an act of unjustifiable aggression on the part of Russia, but because he did not deem it convenient for us just at that thine to interpose in the matter. He should support the motion of his Hen. and Gallant Friend, if he took the sense of the House upon it. Lord GROSVENOR. contended that the statements made with respect to the conduct of Russia to Poland had been much exaggerated, though the conduct of the former towards the latter Power had been most arbitrai y. lie differed trom the opinion expressed by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite (Sir C. Wetherell), who thoraart that the conduct of Russia was not a subject that ought to be discussed in this House. He could only sac, that the debates which had taken place here had been pro ductive of the best effects, for, from a correspondence which had rewired him from Poland within the last there hys, he was enabled to say that the severity of the punish ment of banishment, which had been pronounced on many of the Nobles, had been much mitigated. He, at the same time, begged to say, that he entertained great doubts, whether, under the treaty of Vienna, any inter ference by this country could be made. Sir CHARLES FORBES supported the motion, and contended that Persia had, in her contest with Russia, been abandoned by this country, and left to her fate, He lagged to be allowed this opportunity of setting himself right with the public, with - regard to what had fareir frosts him last evening on the discussion of the Poona,' question, and to correct what was, he felt certain, an un intentional error. In the leading journal of the day, he bad been made to say that the affair, with reference to the case of Narroba, was a disgrace on the British army and the Brirish name. He never had intended to cast any such imputation upon the British army. What he had said did nut affect the a: my, but his observation was that which be now repeated, that it was a disgrace to the Bri tish name, that under a British Government such cor tnities had taken place Mr. COURTENAY concurred with Vs Honourable and Learned Frind (Sir Charles Wetherell) in supporting the previous question, though the motion was one which it cc as natural enou,lll the Hon. and Gallant Member should move, and which he thought also that his Noble Friend opposite, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, ought - : - to concur in. Lord SANDON said, that under the treaty of VlC‘nna, the breaches of which by Russia were such that all the other Powers of Europe were bound to interfere and combine against that Power, promises bad been made by Russia, which she had not fulfilied. he object of this country and of Europe was to prevent that amalgamation of Poland with Russia, the r ff,cts of which were now seen as well as those which would soon follow. The sub ject was one which not only applied to the feelings, but was one in which it was manifest that it was the interest of Europe to keep that great despotic power from inter fering with the peace of Europe, and to prevent that collision (which he feared was fast approaching) be tween the despotic and democratic powers of Europe. The conduct of the great Potentate of the North tended in effect to declare that there should be no amelio ration of the condition of Europe, and at the same time to prevent the spread of moderate and ta• clonal improvement. With these views, he could not but thick that the present occasion was a most fitting one fin• the expression of the feelings of the House upo❑ this sub ject ; and as the House would do so without interfering at all with the foreign policy of his Majesty's Government, he trusted such an expression of feeling would have its effect with that Grvernment. He had never expected that when the condition of Poland was the subject for the discussion or the evening, that even the name of Russia would be mentioned; tor, looking at the general conduct of that country, it never could be said she had kept faith with Poland. Hiving neglected to do this, it could not be expected that she would keep faith with other nations. He was not altogether prepared to support the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Member, although the Ilcuse had agr, el to the Russian-Dutch loan, and he would therefore recommend the Hon. Gentleiean riot to press this question it, a division, and he hoped that from the feeling mani feted already in the House, his Majesty's 'Ministers would see, that on the subject the feeling of Parliament and of the country was not asleep, but that it was gathering strength every day, and that the flood of public:, opinion would burst forth, and perhaps become more inconvenient to the Government of this country. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT, in supporting the motion of his Hon. and Gallant Friend, felt some difficulty in ex pressing his own feelings upon the subject ; for though he was anxious to follow the suggestion of the Noble Lord who bad just sat down, that no personal attack should be made upon the great Power of the North, yet it was diffi cult to keep the words within that line so as fully to con vey the meaning that was intended. There was not to be found, nor could there be, one honest man in the civilised world who would hesitate for one instant to deprecate the conduct of Russia towards Poland. It had been and still was most odious, tyrannical, and d e testable.—(Hear.) How far it was connected with the subject before the House, he would not now stop to inquic e ; but it was im possible not to deprecate the crimes committed and new committing, after the hopes held out to the gallant Poles before Warsaw and on its surrender, that some relief should he afforded to them, from which period there had been one continued series of tyranny exercised towards them, such as history did not record any equal. It was true, that in early periods there were some instances where great conquerors had adopted abominable practices to ex terminate a nation ; but in the nineteenth century, it could scarcely he believed that such a line or course of conduct could be pursued by one nation towards another, if the nation and the present age had not seen the attempt and the object perfected before their own eyes in the very case of the conduct of Russia to the Poles.—(Hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite (Sir Charles We therell) had had the hardihood to assert that the Poles had been the first aggressors. In that respect he (Sir F. Burdett) believed that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman stands singly and alone in this House and in the world, i❑ the maintenance of such an opinion. Sir C. WETHERELL, across the table, was under- stood to observe, that what he had said was, that the con duct of Russia had not been in breach of any treaty. Sir F. BURDETT could not but admire the self conttol of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman in avoiding the expression of any such opinion, and as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had not done so, it led to the suppo sition that he entertained a contrary opinion. It htd been said that there had been no violation of treaties, hut he (Sir F. Burdett) felt ashamed of the conduct of England and the other Powers, with reference to the conduct of Russia to the Polish nation, when there had been a gu ar rut. e to preserve the Constitution, such as it was, of Poland. It was, moreover, the interest of all Europe to have maintained Poland in that situation which had been provided in the treaty of Vienna. He could not but maintain, that if treaties had been scrupulously preserved, as they ought to have been, and if Prussia had been as neutral to Russia as it had been to Poland, that eves, not withstanding the pusillanimity of Europe, Poland would have kept the situation which she had heretofore held.— By that pusillanimity the Poles bad lost every thing but their character, their honour, and their glory.—(Hear.) Such bad been the sympathy of Europe towards Poland. —" stint hie edam sua priemia laudi. Sunt lachrymx rerurn et meotem mortalia tangunt." Than such a course as this, it would be better to revert to the s)stein in the days of Elizabeth, when " 'twas Eng land's task to watch o'er Europe's state," and " to listen to afflicted neighbours' prayers," and by such a course would " all the northern worlds be hushed i❑ peace." He believed that by a❑ interference of this country nu war would have ensued, but even if such had been the case, this country could not have been engaged in a more tri umphant struggle. Russia owed the power which she had assumed rather to chicanery, treachery, and cowardice, as well as to the pusillanimity of the nations of Europe, who had looked indifferently Olson pissing events, than to any power or capability which she herself possessed.—( Hear. ) When this country haul discharged her part of the contract, it could not be thought too much to expect that Russia would perform her portion, of which Poland formed the greatest part. England had fulfilled her portion of the treaty of Vienna as a subordinate object to support die balance of power in Europe, and he could not but think that the maintenance of that balance of power would have been better secured by establishing the independence of Po land than by the establishment of that of Belgium, of which so much had been said of late in this House. It really seemed to bitn that it had been a ruse on the part of Russia to divert the attention of England from that to whiehi should have been directed, arid from the object which this country ought to have had in view. The ruse had succeeded, and with that success he thought that Russia had made England the laughing-stock of Europe. He did think it was necessary that Russia should be called upon to fulfil the treaty, and also that Poland had a right to look for the support of other nations to maintain her in that state of in. dependence in which she now was not, but in Which she ought to have bee❑ maintained. Poland had not, how. ever, been preserved in that state in which Lord Castle reagh, who was not a politician to be swayed by chivalrous feeling, but with the cold eye of an English statesman, had fixed for it in the treaty of 1815. Such a station in which Poland had been left in 1815 could not be de stroyed without the shame and disgrace of the rest of Europe. When it was seen that the liberties of Germany, nay, of the whole world, were give❑ up as it were to the unholly alliance of great despotic powers, which it was the interest of Europe to prevent, it was the duty of the Government to be upon the alert in the maintenance of the balance of power. This country was called upon to assert that character in the world which she had acquired, and to maintain the liberties of the world. But could it be contended by any person, that it had been either wise or politic to allow Austria to take possession awl to make a province of that country—ltaly, filled by the arts, by talents,—after debasing it by spoliation awl by plunder. This was a situation in which England ought never to have allowed Italy to have been placed ; nor should she have suffered that infr iction of all those great prin ciples which govern mankind in the case of Spain. Italy, however, was undergoing the fate of Proinetheus,—was chained to a barren rock, with the Austrian vulture feed ing upon its vitals. It was difficult to keep up a good feeling between the Governments of other countries, but England and France ought never to have permitted this state of things, and even though Russia was a great power, • this country ought not to forget, that considering her eistern possessions there had been a great aggression by Russia upon Persia, upon which that country bad no right to infringe.—(Hear.) He had put England and France together, because the only balance of power in Europe would be preserved by the maintenance of a strict alliance between the two countries.—(Hear, hear.) And inde pendent of all treaties, they had a right to see that the other great powers, Austria, Prussia, and Russia, were not making conquests under pretence of suffering injuries of which this country could not judge, nor taking posses sion of whole territories on due ground of alleged grievances. A claim was made now upon this country to establish the new state of Greece, and to !dice Prince Otho upon the throne. But why, he would should this country be called upon to pay a single farthing for that object, but to maintain the balance of power, and the independence of Europe.—(Hear.) Greece then, so established, at the expense of this country, might then he seized by Russia, and that being done, the same argument which bad been used with regard to Po- land would meet such an event, and it would then, as now, be said that Greece was not worth a war. To return to the question before the house, he thought that when the Poles were competing with Russia, and competing as they did, with success, that the Government of this country might have come forward to their aid with honour to this nation, lie concurred in the !notion of his Hon. and Gallant Friend, for it was now time that some understand ing should be come to, by which either to save the coun try's honour or the nation's money ; and he also thought that if Poland was allowed to remain in the suffering con dition in which she now was, it would be to the disgrace of Europe. Lord J. RUSSELL might be justified in remonstrating with his lion. Friend, the Member for Westminster, who had come d o wn at the close of the Sassion, and entered into the whole course of our foreign policy without any notice being given of a motion, which could have led any one to suppose that a speech so excursive as the Hon. Baronet's could be delivered ; but he abstained front incul pating Iris Hon. Friend, whose feelings he rather e nvied, seeing that after complimenting the N o le L' rd (Sandon) on tie moderation of his sentiments, the lion. Baronet himself did not hesitate to give utterance to expressions tar removed from moderation, and indulge in the most un measured invectives against several of the great Powers of Europe. Ilis Hon. Friend had laid down no less than eight questions, on which, following out his own principles, this counti y was entitled, nay, it would appear, required to go to war. He referred to the Hon. Baronet's remarks upon the casts of Persia, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Pot 'oda Spain, Portugal, and Belgium. Ile repeated, he could not but envy his Hon. Friend this indigence in high and generous feelings ; nevertheless, he not only as a Member of the Gaverutnent, but in his capacity of Member of that House, must shrink from uttering sentiments like those of his Hon. Friend, the tendency of which was to lead directly to war.—(Hear, hear.) However precious he felt the cause of liberty throughout Europe to be, he Itk , wis2 felt that the blood of England was also precious, and he would not hazard it in a cause, where eventually liberty might not prosper, but in which (whatever were the result of a struggle) England was sure to suffer.—(Loud cheering.) The Noble Lord proceeded to detail the history of the treaty of Vienna, and the subsequent transactions of the Poles and Russians, observing that it was much doubted by some of the war nest and most judicious of the friends of Poland win they the insurrection of Warsaw was well-timed. However, it had been said that this country ought to have seized that opportunity to interfere on behalf of Poland. Supposing that we had interfered, what would have ben the nature of the contest ? In what must it have con sisted ? It was said, in the show of a British "feet in the Baltic. But did Gentlemen who thought that such should have been the course of this country imagine, that had we adopted their suggestion, we should not have had a struggle with the united military force of Russia, Austria, and Prussia, while we joined with France in defence of Poland, and in defence of the liberties of other countries similarly circumstanced ? Now he ventured to ask, whether (how ever we might feel for the calamities of the Poles) any English statesman, having the welfare of this country at heart, and its preservation intrusted to his hands, could wisely and prudently have called upon the na tion to go to war on the grounds stated ? If so, then must we admit that at any time when a party in Warsaw should prudently or not create an insurrec tion, we were bound to draw the sword. Against such a proposition as that, he felt it his duty to enter his protest. He would not attempt to follow his Hon. Friend through the great diversity of topics introduced in his speech, but must observe, that it seemed rather inconsistent in his Hon. Friend, who censured the Government for not interfering even to the extent of a war on behalf of Poland,—it was rather inconsistent in him to blame the Government for having interfered in the else of Greece. Was the Greek loan, which held out a prospect of immense advantage to Greece, at little or no risk to this country, offensive to his Hon. Friend on account of the economy of the measure, by which we put an end to Greek anarchy and disturbance? Would his Hon. Friend risk a war for Poland, and yet blame the Ministry for guaranteeing the interest of a loan of 800,0001. to Greece ? Did his Hon. Friend at one and the same time censure the Government for interfering and for non-intervention ? Ministers had pursued a wise and temperate course. They abstained from interference, where the risk was great, and the chance of successful interven tion doubtful ; they interposed their good offices, when they found that the result would be highly advantageous, and _ _ the cost insignificant.—(Hear.) His Hon. Freind had de scribed England as being the laughing -stock of the world, on account of her pacific policy ; this was a charge so gene rally made against all moderate Governments, and made upon such insufficient grounds, as not to demand more than a simple denial. There were also a few persons to be found in every country, who exclaimed if the Go- vernment refused to go to war on trifling occasions, that the foreign policy was weak and ridiculous. Such statements were seldom entitled to much attention ; leitst of all in the present case, wherein the Government had pursued a wise and temperate line of policy. Par better was it to adopt such a course of moderation, than for the sake of a feather or a trophy to take steps that might have endangered the peace of Europe.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the motio❑ of the Hon. Member for Rye, whatever propriety there might be in the Bri tish Government appealing to Russia for a liberal inter pretation and large performance of her treaties, on the ground of the good faith of England with respect to her own eneagecents to Russia, it would be exceedingly improper, and might be raised into an improper prece dent, were the House of Commons to interfere in relation to such a subject. In conclusion the Noble Lord ex pressed his intention of voting for the previous question, if the Hon. and Gallant Member refused to withdraw Lis motion. Mr. EWART exhorted the Hon. and Gallant Member to press his motio❑ to a division, and trusted that the expression of the feeling of the House would be of essen tial service to the Poles. Sir R. INGLIS should support the Noble Lord's mo tion of the previous question. Sir J. DOYLE would support the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Member for Rye. Mr. C. PELHANI could not give his assent to the Hon. and Gallant Member's motion, and should vote for the previous question. Sir F. VINCENT would vote for the motion of the Hon. Member for Rye, but did not wish his vote to be con sidered as a vote for war. Colonel EVANS briefly replied. He did not believe that the effect of his resolution was to produce war. He had the utmost respect for the Noble Lord opposite, and disclaimed any intention of embarrassing the Government by his motion, which, nevertheless, he considered it to be his duty to press to a division. The gallery was then cleared for a division, but none took place, the motion having been withdrawn, as we understood. THE REFORM BILL. On re-entering the gallery, we found Colonel EVANS addressing the House on the motion of which he had given notice, respecting the great numbers of the town and borough constituency who will be found disfranchised at the next general election. He observed that there ought nut to be a single place in the condition in which he feared the far greater part of the metropolitan boroughs would be found. In the parish of St. James, far instance, there were 3,000 inhabitants who would be qualified to vote in respect of the houses they occupied, but owing to the greater part of them not having paid their poor's rates, he believed there would be bat 891 voters in that parish. It was true there were 1,600 who had paid their assessed taxes, but only 891 who had paid poor's-rates, and it was reasonable, therefore, to suppose that the lesser number alone was entitled to the electi , e franchise. He might, however, add, that the oldest col lector in the parish had informed him that there were not mote than 200 voters. In Lambeth, again, the numbers of those who were entitled to votes was very inconsider able. In the parish of St. Andrew's, Holborn, there were 2,600 persons who occupied houses that would give the elective franchise ; but out of these there were only 1,200 who had paid their assessed taxes, and consequently that must be the highest number of persons in that parish en titled to a vote. In St. Margaret's, Westminster, there were not more than 1,200 who would be entitled to a vote, and in the populous parish of Marylebone, where there were 10,000 rated houses of sufficient value to confer the fran chise, there were but 2,900 persons who had paid their rates and taxes. If the rest of the boroughs throughout the kingdom were, as he had no doubt they were, in the same situation, there would he at least two-thirds of those entitled to their franchise deprived of it by the present con ditions stated in the Reform Bill ; so that if the borough voters of the kingdom amounted to 300,000, there would be out of that number 200,000 deprived of their elective franchise. The Noble Lord opposite had given notice of his intention to bring in a Bill to reme iy this evil, by changing the day, now fixed at the 20th July, to the 20th August. That change would not be sufficient. The present was the worst time of the year for making payment. It was not the same when the retail dealer, or the merchant, or manufacturer, received their money, and the agricultu ral part of the population had that produce from which they expected to get their money yet ungathered in their barns. As a proof that these circumstances affected all classes, he might mention that there was not one voter in the whole of Russell-square ; and as a contrast to that, st least with respect to the condition of the inhabitants. there were in Windmill-street only two voters. Under there circumstances, be thought something ought to be none, that so large a body of people might not be disfranchised, and he should therefore move the following resolutions : " Resolved—That in regard to the numbers of the elective constituency, whether of the Metropolitan cities and districts, or in the towns generally throughout the kingdom, the expec tations contemplated by the legislature, held out by the Go vernment, and entertained by the country, are now found to be entirely erroneous, in so far as relates to the next general elec tion under the Act for the Reform of Parliament lately passed. " •That in some places there is even a doubt whether there will be any constituency at all to vote at the next election, ex cepting old corporate freemen ; while in many others, instead of the franchise being enlarged, as was generally stated and be lieved would be the case, it will actually be diminished and cut down to one-fourth, one-sixth, or to even a still less fractional part of the extent of elective right previously enjoyed by those towns respectively; and that a similar disfranchisement, mis_ calculation, or delusion, must be admitted as to the newly_ created boroughs. " That this most unlooked-for and dangerous result, as affecting the composition of the next Parliament, is partly attributable .to the severe and restrictive opera tion of certain clauses of said Act, especially the :27th, 3d, 4.lth, and BOth, requiring as a qualification payment of rates and taxes before specitled days, and pre vious to the periods on which these dues are more usually levied; partly to the distress occasioned to the industrious classes by the long-protracted resistance to the measure of Reform, and the consequent stagnation of trade ; also to omis sions or inattention, designedly or otherwise, of the rate and tax collectors; and to misunderstandings respecting dates and other matters of a supposed confused, contradictory, or com plicated tenor, which there was not time enough between the promulgation of the Act and the periods mentioned to clear up sufficiently for general guidance. That the same might be obsiated in respect to the next election, by substituting in regard to poor rates, the`:.sth day of December last;' and with regard to assessed taxes, the 10th ilay of October last,' in lieu of the words sixth day of April last,' wherever the latter date occurs in said Act in re ference to boroughs—thus rendering all voters eligible who who had paid by the '2oth July last their poor rates due at Christmas, and their assessed taxes due the 10th of last October. " And that it is therefore indispensable, in the opinion of this House, that a short remedial Bill be introduced during the present Session of Parliament to the above or an equal effect, in order to provide some remedy, at least for the pre sent year, against the fatal error and disfranchisement thus discovered to arise in the working of the restrictive clauses re ferred to in said Act." The SPEAKER, after looking at the resolutions, ob- served that the third portion of the resolutions declared that it was indispensable that a short Remedial Bill shout d be introduced, in order to provide some remedy for the evils which the previous portion of the resolutions bad ex posed. If that resolution should be carried, it would be declaring the opinion of the House that s Bill of the kind there described should be brought in, and the House would in fact be giving leave to bring in a Bill without a title, and without a formally declared object. Sir F. BURDETT thought that his Hon. and Gallant Friend had better withdraw the motion, as he was sure it was sufficient to call the attention of the Ministers to it, since they must feel as strong a desire as himself to cor rect the error. He understood that the Noble Lord the Chancellor of the Exchequer had given notice of a Bill to remedy the evils of which his Hon. and Gallant Friend had spoken, and truly, if it was intended that the Bill should be such as to satisfy the desires of those who had so earnestly called for it at the hands of the Government, some remedy must be afforded. He thought the day should be postponed from the 20th of July to the 20th of September; but he thought further, that the right to exercise the franchise should de pend, not on the actual payment of taxes, but on the liability to pay them, unless it could be shown that the individual liable would be totally unable under any cir cumstances to make the payment. He recommended his Hon. and Gallant Friend to leave the matter in the hands of the Government, especially as the Noble Lord had ' already taken up the subject. Lord ALTIIORP apprehended that his Hon. and Gallant Friend (Colonel Evans) had much exaggerated the effect of the restrictive clauses. The fact was, that in all scot and lot boroughs the voters would not be disfran chised, even as the Reform Act now stood. The scot and lot voter was not disfranchised, unless he had refused to pay rates when demanded. Poverty, therefore, in that case, was the only cause of disfranchisement. Consider ing the discussion the matter had already undergone, it seemed very extraordinary that any mistake upon the point should have taken place ; but a complaint, and he believed with good foundation, had been made to him, that in many instances where the rates had been tendered the collectors had refused to take them. An amendment to remedy this defect, he apprehended, would be agreed to by every body ; but he could not admit the proposition, either of his Hon. and Gallant Friend, or of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Westminster, as he should be sorry to see any other alteration made in the Bill but that to which he had referred. It appeared to him, that as in law a legal tender was often equivalent to pay ment, a legal tender of rates ought to be held sufficient to give the party the right of voting. To this he (Lord Al thorp) could foresee no objection, excepting in point of form ; in that respect there might be some ground for re sisting any alteration, for the Reform Act did not contain any clause at the end declaring that it might be amended even in the course of the present Session. There were, however, three precedents of such a course having been adopted without any clause to that effect. The first was in the year 1757, the second in 1765, and the last in 1795 ; the last seemed most analogous to the present case, as that related to an act for allowing persons farther time for taking out certificates for wearing hair. pow der.—(Laughter.) It was analogous, because in this in stance, as in that, the period first fixed was enlarged. At the same time, he would not press even this amendment of the Reform Act, unless he could °Train for it a general concurrence.—(Hear.) He therefore moved, as an amendment upon the original motion—" That leave b.! given to bring iu a Bill to allow farther t'me to persons to pay tnetr poor -rates, pursuant to an Act of the present Session to amend the representation of the people in Parliament." The question having been put, Mr. HERRIES contended that such an alteration, however necessary, ought not to introduced at this late period of the Session, when so many who had taken a prominent part in the discussions on the Reform Bill had left London. It was contrary to the law of Parli,ment, and in violation of the most established usage, to proceed as the Noble Lord had recommended. Nevertheless, he was disposed to concur in the fitness of the amendment ahs!ractedly, only he would rather incur the evil of not having it made, than the great danger that would result from establishing so perilous a precedent. If one change were to be made, how could Ministers resist any others that might be proposed ? And if the provision imme diately in question were anomalous, and disappointed public expectation, it would be easy to show other parts of the Reform Act, as it now stood, liable to objections quite as forcible. He therkfure earnestly entreated the House to pause before it concurred in the proposition of the Nob!e Lord. The SOLICITOR GENERAL regretted to observe such a spirit of opposition to the amendment of his Noble Fiiend. The (,o•stion was undoubtedly important, be. . - cause it was whether the public was to derive from the Reform Act the benefits they had a right to expect.— (Hear.) If the great mass of the intended new constituency were thus deprived of their franchise, the people would lose the fair fruits of the measure. The franchise had been given that it might be exercised, and if Ministers did not take care that it should be exercised, they would be guilty of little 1 than treason against the people.— (Cheers.) The point to be considered was, whether Par liament ought not to grant a reasonable time for the pay ment of rates and taxes? It was, of course, merely acci dental that the defect had occurred, and it would be highly unbecoming in Parliament not to remedy it. The object seas not to vary the principle of the Reform Act in the slightest degree ; and if there were no rule of Parliament to render the course impossible, nothing could be more just and necessary ti,an that the alteration should be made. Uriless the Reform Act were to be a dead letter—to ex pire in its birth—the House which had adopted that Act was bound to make it perfect. Sir E. SUGDEN had never heard of a single case of tender where the money had been refused by the collector of taxes. If a case was made out of a mistake, he would go as far as any man in rectifying that mistake. If the Noble Lord would state, of his own knowledge, that a number of persons had offered their rates, and they had been improperly refused by the overseers, be (Sir E. Sug den) would readily agree to support this measure with all his heart. He would agree that every voter who had made a bona fide tender before July 20, should have a full claim to the franchise; and he would even go still further, and agree to a heavy fine being imposed on the oversee' who should have dated to refuse such a bona fide tender. Now that the Reform Bill bad passed, no one was more ready than he was to give the full benefit of it to the people for whom it was enacted. But, at all events, he wished to proceed on principle; and it would be a monstrous thing to let in all by this Bill, whether they had made a ten der previous to the2oth July or not. The Solicitor-General had seemed to argue that this Bill was necessary on account of some mistake. But he contended that there could be no mistake. The electors were fully apprised of the last day on which the rates could be received ; and every news paper in this great metropolis I ad repeated, over and over again, the date of the day which, according to the Reform Btll, was the last on which rates would Ise receivable. Surely the Solicitor-General did not mean to insinuate that there was any mistake with respect to Mary-le-bonne, to represent which his Learned Friend intended to aspire in the reformed Parliament ; because that parish, in addi tion to the metropolitan newspapers, had constant reform meetings of its own, in order fully to inform the inhabi tants of all the particulars connected with the Reform Bill. He trusted, at all events, that so important an alteration would not be attempted during the absence of the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth. If such a step as this was once begun, where was it to end ? It was surely too had to attempt to introduce so important a change when there were perhaps not more than fifteen Gentlemen present representing those impor tant interests which had been consecutively opposed to the principle of Reform. If the Noble Lord had originally proposed the 20th of wouldlere ve been a is b of the 20th July, there would n ot date was fixed by the Government— there could be no mistake about the matter ; and it was a a August, ea nd . d ins s t e tient voice ; the little too bad now to come a g ain to this House in the same Session to ask for this extension of the da y . H e did trot hesitate to say that he looked u p on such a cour se a hopedof faith th thetowards Noblethose L Lord who were h e content to confi ne this Bill to those wh ose tender had beets rejected by the o verseers. Lord ALTHOR P said, that o f his own knowledge he could trot state many ca s e s of re jection by the overseers; a s sen an t absolute ; he therefore tirea cll but he had been credibly informed that a large number of persons would be prevented from having their votes, from not having paid up to the 20th July ; and that of t h ese a large portion had tendered their money, and been refused acceptance : the natural result of which was, that this refusal would act en many others, and prevent their making the tender at all. If it was true that this K i ll was to he regarded as a breach of faith towards those who were absent, and en that account to meet with considerable opposition, he did not think that it was worth his while to press it upon the House, and he certainly , under these circumstances, was not disposed to press the Bill upon the House. Sir F. BURDETT thought that this supplementary Bill was nothing more than carrying into effect the inten tion of the original Reform Bill, and that without this Bill the public would find that they were not really in posses sion of that franchise which they had been euaranteed.-- - He did not see how any one could contend that this was any alteration of the Bill ; it appeared to him only to be s furtherance of the proposed effect of the Bill. Mr. HtJME wished to ask the Noble Lord whether he had withdrawn the Bill ? Lord ALTHORP said that he bad ;—first, because it would be impossible for him to pass the Bill if opposed is the present state of the Session ; and secondly, because he did not wish to pass the Bill, if it was held to be a breach faith that the Reform Bill should not be altered. ..,....—.. Mr. HUME said that if the Bill only went to franchise those whn had tendered, he did not care much about it, because he believed the number of those tenders to be very few ; but if it was intended to be a Bill for the general extension of the time to the 20th of August Lord ALTHORP—I intended the Bill to embrace both these objects. Mr. HUAIE—Then he did hope that the Noble Lord would not withdraw the Bill, because such withdraWe i would give very g reat dissatisfaction in the metropolis. Mr. C. ROSS did not object to a Bill to franchise those who had tendered payment; but he thought that, with respect to the others, ample notice had been given them , and, therefore, there was no pretence for any extension of time in their favour. The House then divided on Colonel Evans's motion For the motion 2 Against it Majority —64 Mr. STANLEY said, with reference to the notice of his which stood on the paper, for leave to bring in a Bi ll t 3 amend the administration of justice on the trial of of fences in certain cases in Ireland, that at that hour of the night he could not think of bringing it forward in oppoli' tion to the wishes of any Hon. Member ; and therefore, if he could not then obtain leave to bring it in without a dig' sentient voice, he should postpone it to the following day. Mr. LEADER would certainly oppose even the intro' duction of a measure so deeply affecting the rights and berties of the subject.—Motion postponed accordingly. j The other orders of the day were then disposed of, a n the House adjourned at Two o'clock. LITERATURE. EXCURSIONS IN INDIA. Loxpori. COLBURN 4ND BENTLII. This work, as many of our readers are avvare'l is the production of Captain Skinner, of ( 1 ° believe) the East India Company's Servic e ' In the introduction he states, that " with tb e exception of the mountain tour, the excursio f ' in India contain no very regular journal. V II other journeys were taken at different times, an d for the accomplishment of different objects; 5° that, should the narrative possess no other re' t commendation, it may at any rate claim that 0 variety." What these objects were, the author however, does not think fit to disclose. In the course of the work, Captain Skinne describes his progress up the Ganges, a distant' he computes, of 1,200 miles, with a fleet of bosh setting out from Calcutta, and proceeding throat the Sunderbunds, a wild jungle country, to D i ' napore, and visiting Allahabad, Cawnpore Delhi, and other military stations in Upper P,' dia. 'Whether it was to ascertain the suscer ti ' bility of the river for the purposes of navigation' and the facility of communication with the i n ' terior, we know not ; but it is evident that the a' ) : thor's mission was an important one. The red construction of an iron steamer, destined for ° I sacred river, lends probability to our conjectorl,; Be this as it may, we must pronounce Cap Skinner to be a very intelligent and entertaiel traveller, through whose guidance we become t , miliar with the scenery of the Ganges--with Il i, towns and villages situated on its banks---v' it , the men and animals he met with—with the j ;1 ' li° n tural productions of the country, &c. Wit d encountering the perils and fatigues that mar k his progress. k, Regarding the cholera Captain Skinner " 0 , duces some facts which at the present ° of , ment cannot but be considered interesting. f r ti , his observations he does not believe the nol s , to be contagious. At Patna we have the fo' lowing fearful picture of its ravages : tF " I shall never forget the afternoon of our arrival; e i r cholera had been raging some time amongst the nativ e b s o i pulation, and all the dead bodies seemed to have t l placed on a clear spot without the city, and under e' walls of some rich man's palace. The hot wind ble w p i ! violently, and we were long within sight of tbis 1; 0 0. without being able to reach it; the water was very td and several dead bodies that had been washed from, it) bank by the river were stranded on the shallows 00, centre. It was the Ist of May, and corruption vas,/ rapid; every breath of the sirocco blew poison; th e . t o il was indescribable ; bodies floated sometimes agale ° l 4 boats, for they were nearly all aground, and reg °) , under the bows for an hour at a time, while others . ii i uninterruptedly down the stream, with flocks of ,111' upon them. Little could be heard but the noise of ro tt ie tures tearing off the flesh with their beaks, while th e frog jangled in their quarrels for the morsels that fel l them." . f By the bye, brandy and laudanum a re I ll th much repute in the east, as an antidote t 0 disease, as in this country. 1 -0 ' Delhi, the once f amous metropo li s of , e , l l dostan, said to have formerly covered an e x ' . in length of 20 miles, is thus described :--"' ,i! " The din of so populous a place is very great, f"„'rr:,' house seems as well furnished as a hive of bees. 'fr o il r pulation is nearly 200,000 souls, in an area of seve° j 1 in circumference, which is the extent of the wall of 0° sll Delhi. The great peculiarity of an eastern town :704 every thing is done in public ; the people talk a Ot to ; as they can ; and sometimes, when engaged in unittleto matters, seem to be scolding each other it , the in ° '. o g iageous manner. The neigh (i i wn tag htile o lh f e cattle, the creaking of cart wheels, and the 'clink U 1 t o ri p terers' hammers,' for all occupations are carried o lit , little open space in front of each shop, are beyond 5 0 ,:, durance. The trumpeting noises of the elephdlist, o ir a h cn n oi r m s u e ra s sl , se t a h ro e ef I i n ted w i I ec i : s .,, of the camels, varied occasionally by thei:hp, the groaning with the u nceasing beat of the tom tom, the s hrill P t il' and the cracked sound of the viol, accompanied bcio' , e a s t c t o i r c s a e c t l u 7 r for the purposes of boot. },e, derately nervous person to desperation." i n worse g . o i f aavnloeyiocpessakredotfcothrh e sing ers, are enough to drive e , s ll' field sports, especially the ) of the tiger, an d dote s J the e t streets of hooded, many, curious anecdo tes v l given of the various animals peculiar t ° country. d ) , ~ s al' e 4 " Those who attend to the care of animals ( t tl'; author) " are so identified with all their habits, t l ' a e r t il seem to think of nothinj else, and their charges a P,P„,, -o 'l fully to understand them, that you may fancy td- t iori ° part, particularly the elephants, in the conver'3l o il': their keepers. Sometimes the mahout gains such; loc fluence over this animal, that he may be s uspected d icie ? ing compe ll e d th e a ff ec ti ons by ' spells and a le c i,t ) .) bought of mountebanks.' Some fault had been float) lung ago, with the driver of a baggage elephant b i ; t V', to my regiment, and he was dismissed. The ell' a : c oe i received his lesson, and would not suffer ano ther t 00'1 near him. Several were procured one after th e eo et' i , with excellent characters for kindness and 11 ' 333g 0 0 6, but the gentlest creature seemed suddenly te a _ n a e'i t ,J into the most ungovernable. A month had pas e ot i‘ out any return to rule, when the discharged d ',a toy again taken into service, and the elephant, deliglit` 4 him, became once more fit for use." vOlt if ; ', But the principal attraction of these , s :, i is to be found in the account of the auth°. r , ti among that s t u p en d ous ra nge of moun ts w ill Ilim:laya, the highest in the world (sat e