The Sun. — London, England, 1822-02-12 00:00:00

as - will afford the necessary ;elle!' to the distress now existing in -the'rhuntry." - - - The hldarcriis of LONDONDERRY, in rising to address itheklousee after the very Icing. detailed, - and-, , elabOrate'Speech of the llenhared Learned Gentlemen,- coitki assure the IlouSe, ittiat if he felt that the praphsition which had been shbrnitted to tersienet in a :veil practicable shape; because it could not be edcited - without injury to phblie credit ; if he thought the niode elheZef which had been see.gestill cotilil` at -. once be safilY re l'Oreed -to, end without a' -66-let - ion - of' national faith,: he would t4tahrt the Call for a ditninttion of 'the burdens of the Rennie .to the uttermost frrthirtg. - If the Ilene and Learned Geetle zsan'eculd prtive to hint that-taxation could he reduced - , as. he ..heetTecornameneled that it should be reduced;- Without viol:it -an: 'dune principles of good final 'whith it had hitherte been the' pelihr of the iltitish Government to maintain, he should behfisat to iiiTord the nation all the benefit 'whie.h it had Igen tor.vindcd . must result float inch a course. ' But the Tryeltiriens - iesinuation thrown out on the possible -neces of relit stn = ; the landed interest at the expense of the ons?hiesi irteresh must be more qualified than they bad been ..by'-any thing 'advanced in the course of- - the Learned Gentle man's speech to relieve him -from the idea; that - before thtey ee'ityphst bit resolutioh; they must be prepared to - deviate from - princielch Which had hitherto been regarded as these .whieli if was- most important to preserve infqolate. When the Hone, and Lesrnedflentlemen had removed this impiession, by -.showing thatlhe course which - he - recommended could be pur .suedt without a violation of good faith ; then, and not till then, .1%01113 he acknowledge that he had established a case on whieh Ir.'s:id-Uhl-become the duty of that House to act. If he had be lieved that the subjeets which the Learned Gentlt'mait's speech involved could that night be satisfactorily brotight before the liovw., he would' net have been the first to answer it, as lie had .tee happiness to sit amongst those Who were much more canahle .of 'detecting the -- fallacies which' tvcontiined, and of replying to many peiths in it than Wai. But' the question now for -their 'honsideratiOn was; -in what' situation was the House and n-hat would be the situation of the' Route and the -.Cour.try, if his - -views of the present great and portentous crisis here acted upon I' The Government had been ; arraigned; .and 'the !louse itself had not been- exempted - froth the lash of the:l-lore ,de, Learned GeraVinan ; but it' was riot for them to regulett their cordect by what that Hone and Learned Gen -Ll:Man reier think 'of the Manner in which they had per formed-their duty, - it was for theta to'act such a part as would justify them in-their ore eyes P,nd in the eyes of posterity. He svishee Cot to follow the Hon. and Learned Gentleman through I is i_leteilse.but he should not do his if he were not to touch on some of hiS must prominent points. lie should have expected if the [Pin - - and Learned Gent, telt that he had good grounds to go upee----if he wished the -subjects which he had broached broiheiit into eiscession; he would - have' endeavoured to make Themir-tellhetle by giVing sufficient-time fot them to be looked fairly- into. It', in his ieal to procure relief for the country; he kat/ F eon a' ptacticable mode of diminishing their hurdees, he sheuld iihve imagined that to this point the Hon. and Learned Cent rhulti have applied himself without going back to the Tate .v: , er to chlurniiiete Ministers for the measures whieh they had pu'rsiiiAl.:e.r to calethriete the House for its shbsertiency to'the theremnient, whose measures they had "sanctioned. fait confident it the soundness of his own propositions, he would -head taker a course very different from that which _he 'bud purstied. on this occasion. `He 'would not have come forward hs he new did, to say, " here I have a - preposition to make which ought to be adopted. Ministers, it is true, have announced that they have sonic measures 'to propose, which4n their judgment 'will be proper to nicet the-case, , btit Whatever their plants may be, I will not wait-to hear them... I have a proposition to submit which affects all the great interests -- of the Empire, earl on this I call upon you to give your 'fiat in the aiiSZll6 of that infbrmation which Ministers have 'offered - to giVii and-nee ready to supply." It should be - remembered, that holding. thi4 languare het endeavoured to press them, or rather to entrap them - to - give a hireniatthie 'deci'sion -on a question not kss—coeit:lex than it was important: 'He (the Marquis. of Londonderry) felt that he should 'betray his duty-. to the Crown, and be waritinh in respect to that- House; if haihT opened-went it was the intention-of inisters to do ' he were nut to-allow them thll time duly"to - con:haler the real merits Of theecase, before they decided What course it Would best becerne them to take in the present hircturiatiances of the country, But such were 'not the f', , eiings . of Honourable anti Learned Gentleman. Ho proposed to them on Cie first night of its being hniught beforelhein a come to a decisihn e which if adOpted, sveuld say :nest seta one great question, hi which' the most irriportant interests of -the couttry were necessarily involved. The 1 - fori/Gentleenazi, he repeated it, had he been satisfied 'of the, soundness of the-remedy he had propOsed;• would have been le-44:likely to go out of his Way; 'to reproaeh Ministers - for - their Fist traduce- - - doirCg this he had fallen into some etaggera-• Heins; on which' he neiSt offer a few remarks. He had reproath ed the ticescinnient with the great expence incurred -in the late hher.: Was this fait'---WaS it just - to reproach them now for the stapendods eteitions'which had been made during the last three years' of the weir, which guided by Providence was clowned with'success, and" bad peeved the means of restoring peace to Eurhpe ? Was it fair tires to- arraign Ministers for these exch.:. Boris which at-the - dine had been apprOVed on the other ride of the House,- and which' the voice' di the Country had not only sustained; but had clhirr.ed from those entrusted with the' ad ministration of its aff:tirs?'.‘i'as it' well that -these" should be bight forward now, and- he sticass whiCh . had • crowned tikm forgotten 'Gin& greater ,Success could never have been cikatetuplad or desiiedytt.s . tnatters . of charge against Ministers? In'refirrin r , , T to the Re - port Finance UOmmittee, the Hon. and '.earned. Genticr.Lai had spoken of the Members of - the Cas:niittee zs being *nlons who were notoriously subser vient to the Government. He would as'.: was this fair Wait not calumniating the thest' independent Members of thav • ticuse thus to describe tfrni i and was this the course wiziAth the Honourable and Ilearred Lientleman might have been- ,:xpOi.d to pursue when bringing 'forward what here eiteea.as a nie.sure of relief in 'behalf of which he must desire to uaite all parties for the benefit of the public. With respect to: his observations on the past,' he ,would remark, that to' ry co.r crn the phblic service - in a moment of danger was ohe ain K ; . and to review - it' when that danger had passed away was a.; - titirer.—(Hear.)—But whki he talked of millions having beetiSqUandered away, it ought to be remembered what the vtalce of the pubhc had declared the occasion to which he hair-reft:rreil. It was very Wel/ to talk: of the propriety of ataining estimates before expense was inctirred. ki hat would 14.1.i* been the consequencelf Lord Wellington had waited for es:chnates before he fortified the lines. of Torres Vedras ? Had ti,fLgreAt Captain taken , such a course; that position would never seeurz.d.'which had turned the whole tide of the war. 'lle Leamed gentlentan had spoken as if the Government sittr tz , f the }rouse had been mad at the time, and that warlike irici:mres had never inct with the support and approbation of ae-other.: - Bat such - Was . not the Ciso, nor such the language -otrthe Learned Gendeman and those who sat near him at tll , riiine - when the enemy's „Artily wazi assembling - at Boti. Did the Honourable and Learned Gentleman -remem her bow measures Of defence Were then , called for Did he re*:Uher how - a - gallant Qtaer (General Crawford) was always iiingin't , this in their ears 'from - day to day ? Did he remem- i'eAv a Right Hon. Genifernan; for whose memory I; , e, hitch,ilie greatest respect, though he had differed froth him in meant i%l r. Wyndham—did he remember how he hTrresed Ministers on the seine point ?—lt was then nose cp,..tr that we werfortifying oar 'coast,:' for the works at Dover were , .'brought - under the cogr.i%ance of Parliament. The idea: if er'eCtint those works 'had ''not'ori , inated on - the i - at the libirSe.;• but it - hat? •cerne . from their' o..c..vevits'i4t had cOirie wi;if the sanction cf Mr. Wyniham's he was so-highly thought of for the sUnestion, that 1:1‘. , future arrangements •of those with whoin he acted, he wit' made. OP-Witt irliSter. The /1 oi.1: and / JeaFn ed" Gen tle- man - stall,. the. present (lo,vernni..tit h‘aci.s4trandered away four' rreflionst•of rtiont4 to restore the triefillic currency of the coun try.: If tnis' were e4a;- win& ,just have been covered by the v.nizoef , „idi • W - I;:aqiiandered when •M T. Wyndham was War Mi- Li.:ter it, the way mentioned, for which the 'Learned Gentleman had. voted, :vehich had .saddled on- the bark of • the' country ficdt."•itil,lions . ' of' debt. This - liati••'not • protaal.A. •froin the pretTrt 'flovt.rnnient; but cioar . those' wt o n(137 reprewnted tt.'%rtrr • to intte&i . beetr away - 17y a military mania, and. nevei‘yini WetJfl•• - tal,l: upon hinlself to say, • hair the public rneifiy • been , '• more improvidently , spent. Our' - currency tniit:tha Weii.itstered withCiat'tlio expense being felt, had . tnit five iniittons•C:b %,-ent on M. Wyirdliarn't plan been re• to:cOvor it.. The !ton. atif: lattried Gentleman had said? the 'Government 'had . so L-cindiact• - .xl . the: affairs' 0f the coin try- th2Vtlie 'taxes . now to' bT,'lsorne, , vit.re equal to thok 141:1 Eoeir itupoid &ring. iiar. His statement of thei7 . stirtotuit might bert:alled in que4ion, nut ht>w waN , he make bat big ass.trtioll !' The fict wag, the, cotiary rid bee re lit-vba - froni eightt , e:h: Tillirns in_-r - 41mbne continued.exemptfrom so niuc.; - : 0! t? bfOrie• Ruhission of tziatlb'n st;.alr - an'arnobit never .. 3 ;ten euijoy'ed any country tEt'rford. Ng" eff,et , of• this z.et s t.Ead be6rt.elipt-t -ott. mia (1- - nct afforded thbtbuntrylib , tniirt a's• the kb.: nburaille a.od 'Leaned' Clentliine;d:tolifif have (141:1:late& uiirr. 'lll . .tilluubt:ll - ,tri 'mi..' `to i:oos.otei ateat 'Wns . ‘o,e- rent „... oUtitat. great 9itestion which (rad bee?) brought before than, anti 'wtist itt•taner they:wootti- best disitharge their nt,— OM t 1 111 opcjitid arrotioncett t tat citlksio to Ite"jahottrilrg' Ander great clistei:si; it:11111 . 1e' link l!trd Tatliaineal tor oitrice.''fie stotyld , pity it 'no , t lrf FQ uittiie, i f laie Sort reit...n-0)0d 'fittetcs• peeled . aideereitir at.istverittlitis t uriris S;tvich; tit thetAd drets iterieri:ifiately.tioli,dintrii)ly to it But this the Hotfaiiti ltrOttied Gentleniao I u thought•of propostng, CutticfaitY H..”, t hi+tl, Ilrrt the lionse , O.oulti do its duty:it witttirt-lnee or - ftair :nut 5-town:me - Ay gitt thiiSistion, they ;:eritrltltf; uttt • itiquiry• ite•conic to-a deciiton - on'tt tiocstion . _ portant ? He wonlil rscall to the re.cellection• of the Musa; that early in the debateett the firSt night, he clad stated tree course which it was theiotention of Gi;verirruent to pursue. He then made it kriown, that on an ca. ly day they would open their vieW of the situation ef the eount ry, and furnish the House with jmaterials on which to their judgment. ha.d wt rho the pr en, was one of :Lose get nt 'crises when it became the dilty at P.a.lialnetit to inquire into the state of the caofitry, hr fare they iteleirtied what way they should .attemot to relieve the distreaS admitted to exist. In Calliog House to -vote til t Alli'esS then proposed, he had * tiaid it would pledge no man'tri ;4'l)7'l:articular ,ot conduct for tie time to come, and s, to=ni i>t ice t!esired that no Man st; , ,tthi consider that by dectliniog to Vote for the proposition of the Learned tieutiernatt, picric:cal bioiaell to any particular . cOurse .\,:t he called 'upon them to d o now Was 0 , rote that this was not the proper Ihu t' fir earning to a decision 'ori a airoposition like that, which had been brought hrtVre - them. lie should - More the previous enestion. This (amid AO no ha: and )t. would be mi'lrat to the same motion' being propounded by the Honourable and Learned Gi-ntleinito on a future day. He only claimed that thk qiieatioti shOuld be left `open for the present—that they shou:d 'riot proceed to, a decision without those Materials which were necessary to . fotth their Judgment - Which it was in the -poWerof the Govern 7 ment to supply. When Ahe Hon. and Learned Gentleman`, Seeitted' reads.. to consent . that theltouse - shoold retrace its , 'steps. he would go along- with him and say God forbid Hutt: 'the House should not -do so, where it was in their power to repair an injury which the pleasures they had thought it wise to adapt had caused ; but where through Many long Tears particular line of poticY had been pursued, they ought not on . a single speech and in a single night to elmoge th e ir sy s te i i i . They ought to wait for such information as 01.01 satisfy their own consciences, 'and pieve to posterity they were nos prepared to act ion imperfect information; but that they were careful before t Ireydecided, to take a cotrect; a sound, arid an elaborate view of the whole merits of the case. IC he knew any thing of that House,' those he addressed would not feel disposed to go with the 'Hon. and Learned Gentleman. -Nothing tharhe had said would make them lose sight of that policy"on which they had heretofore-acted, or induce them to abandon the principles of eternal justice by which tI ey Were hound to peep good faith with the public creditor. The course of measures Whitt' it would shortly become his duty-to pro pose to the House, would, he hoped, afford riot only relief where the Learned Gentleman desired that it 'Should be given . , but he trusted that it would be afforded in a more•compre henaive manner than it could be were the proposition now tinder consideration adopted. The Horne would feel that he ought not to' suffer himself to be betrayed into any pre. , mature disclosure of the plans which his Majesty's Minis. tors: were about to submit to Parliament ; but saying this, be desired that it might- not he supposed that any dimi nution of taxation, which; consistent With the public in terest, could be resorted to, would be ovetlookrd. He was prepared to say, that the mode of relief which •would he suggested by the Government, as compared with •hat recotrimended'hy 'the Hon: and Learned Gentleman, which be thought improper and-unwise; would he found more ell'. cjent ; and it would be for the House. to consider whether it would lint be wise to attempt not merely affording relief by remission of taxation; hot -by resorting to all those collateral means which • Ministers thought might he used without breaking through those general principles which the hest in terests of the country demanded should be res. reed inviolate. It would be impossible for him, 'if' he aoswe red the Hon. and Learned Gentleman in detail, to avoid entering :into state-. ments from which at present it was his duty to abstain. He could not make himself intelligible without •yetailing the course which the Government meant to pursue, and if he did this, how was he to-night to apply himself to the arguments -of the Learned Gentleman? It appeared to hint (the Marquis of Londonderry) that the Hon.' and Learned Gentleman wished to bring the House into acquiescence with a proposi- - tiro!, of the soundness of -which he Was not thoroughty.cou vinced himself. If he were to do justice to his own propo sition, supposing it to he sound; bewould be 'the first to4:a!1 on the House to act with caution, and give it the fullest con sideration before they adopted it. But it - was in vain to-at- tempt disguising front themselves that this was nothing more than an attempt to l:ain a pattyi vote, which, on the face of it, would convey a censure to the Government, nod be con sidered a mark of the' House having withdrawn froth them its confidence. He would put it to the House if they were to carry this motion. without hearing what retrenchments it was proposed to make, and what measures they' had to offer to meet the existing distress, if it would nut be to pass a censure on them, and to mottle - a want of confidence in his Majesty's' present Ministers? if the House were disposed to act such part-11 they were prepared to carry the present nuitiola with less information before them than they would require to justify t hem in passing• a common turnpike bill, they had . 'better at once begin by displacing the Goverriment.—(Fleal In the name of God, .if they were ready to adopt such a Re solution as the Learned Gentleman had produced, merely on his show iuK on this night, and which he had thought of brnig ing forwardat a late 'period on a former evening, let them at once charge him with the Government of the country : 'and they could not give him a better earnest of their entire confidence in his wisdom than by agreeing, !order such sir entustinices, with his present resolution. Placed in the situ ation of Minister, he might then he supplied with some in formation, collected by the present Government, which he now wanted: He might then find, that, comprehensive as was the view which he had taken on the subject, - there were 'onto -little points which bast slipped him; and, Wormed on these, the Howe would then be in possession of a Minister who would know bow to revise his own decision It would be better that the House and his- Majesty's present Ministers should perfectly understand each other. -lithev had lost the confidence of Parliament, of which circumstance be himself had as yet seen no indication, it would be better for the coun try, and a relief for the individuals forming the Givernment, to make this known at once. lithe Honourable and Learned Gentleman possessed their confidence, to which every politi cian had a right to aspire, he ought to take his seat on the Ministerial bench. Unless he were enabled to do so, he could not do justice to himself. There all his sagacity would be necessary. He (the Marquis of Londonderry) would, however, .do the Hon.-and Learned Gentleman the justice to believe, that he was not so rash as to pledge himself to stand by the speech which he had made that night. When he got into his 'office, whether as Holder of the Seals, or as Chancellor r he Exchequer, or whatever the situation he might fill,, the first thing he would do would he to call on the House to proceed with caution, and to pause before they acted on his present resolution. . The course now taken by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was not a new one. It was stn bid expe dient found in that office, to which be was supposed to have succeeded; for it was whispered that within these few days he. had been elevated to that situation on the other side of the House, which the world had been led to suppose was assigned to the Hon. Member for Aberdeen,—(Laughter.)— Perhaps an arrangement had been made, so that the tich. and Learned Gentleman should hold it for the present, bet stiffer it agnin to devolve on the-Hon. Member for Aberdeen, when he (Mr. Brougham) .was on the Circuit .—(Laughter.. , he cotrte now taken, as he bad already remarked, oas nu anew one. Much the same thing had been done on a former occasion on the eve of a great debate. At the moment when the House was about to lake-into consideration the currency of the State, which question, according to the Leal - lied Gen tleman-had not been disposed of with all the wisdom that could have been desired; and when the House was under a notice given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that be would soon bring the finances of the country under their con sideration, then it was that a Right Hun. Gentlenian took upon himself to act a part similar to that whirl; bad hero taken by the Fkon. and Learned Gentleman to night. His Right Hon. Friend was about to do what the Right Hon. Gentleman had -called upon him for years to db. Itepeutedly. had the Right Han. Gentleman complained- that the Chan cellar of the Excbeiree acted with pusillanimity, that. his measures were feeble, and that be failed in his duty by adopt ing temporary measures, and declining to look the evil in the face. He had drelared that he would never be the nr+n to shrink from supporting a Minister who fairly r:id his duty by making the conniry acquainted with its real situation. But when the Chancellor ,of the Exchequer was about to do the very.thing he was called upon to do, what was the conduct of the Right Honourable Gentlentan ? Wiry just then it was that he tried to accomplish that which was now attempted by the Bon: and Learned Gentleman, namely, to take an elabv• rate view of the state of the country, in order to gain wparty vote and shake the confidenceof Parliament in the Ministers. He thought. as he remarked'at the time, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had brought his army into the field too soon, but an arrtiy less disposed to mislead their Chief than that which fur the last two evenings they had had the pleasure of Meet ing, he hiniSchlom seen., He had, however, never Loosest a question of Management (as it was calied in Parliamentary tatqtnage) thus brought forward to fail of gaining a rebuke frorr the- House.' The man who thought so humbly of the undeistaoding of the country Gentlemen in that-House and iif the HOuse 'at large as to-suppose that such an artifice wOnlif unit 'ire seen through; had soon heen taught that mistiken them, and pliced in no very- flattering srtiontion. Lle - should be inuch"surprised if the llonourable• and Learned'Gentleniati was 'not as thuroughly taught that that Houie tars nut thus to be entrapped by•wanage wept in to ' a (ra'r . ty-‘kitt ! , as the Right Hfnou r abl e Gentleman had beet; on ' date ectasion to which Ge had'referred. was tlie vie* which he tOok 'of the present net ii with • !tte' k*.riatii question, becatsie be Witold Pledie the tfonsetis ritr a 'ftiloti•iitithe subjects which" it' inyoleed, let Nits)! 'erat Ire • prepared"to- hring forn•aicl the system on' ivfAitti'Vtinitnets ikt‘tifiused to a ct. He snuuld be tzp.. • • prepared . to argue, that thTs woul . r•Pprove,a.sFatem of :relief, end try put it in Opposition to- that 01 the honourable and Learned Gentleman; and he should he much. deceived if it were not found more compatible with the true inte rests Of the country than the system of the Honourable and Learn, d -Gentleman. and especially condoeive to the la llef of Ihe agricultural intyroa. When he insetted this sub ject to the House, he should not call upon them at once to come to a viite on it; be - should lem'e it toy consideration a iheent time, to enable them delilierateiy to- decide rot its rierils. lie should not only feel that he did not do justice to' the Hoose Were he to take a differ en t comae, but lie should feel that he denied the country the benefit which they derive frens the wisilion of Parliament; if .OppUrtu riity were not afforded 'to' consider 'it folly, And even to, receive Mew materials to assist their jsirignreitt. - lie wished for nothing mote than that this iinportaut subject -shauld be freely'and Isirly.ilebated. tie pr otested 'against c.outing to a" deeiSirni, before they Could have time safely to torns their The : 7P...re5 . :t00 was conspleaity in itself, and - surriotodeel as it was wit great and startling difficulties, they ought not to attempt disposing Of it hl a Moment. On general principles he . agreed 'witlnanueli of what had fallen from the lion. and LeOrned• , Crentlerisan. He agreed that it Was the duty Of Nlitiisters to ecenontiae.—(}fear, hear!) But when he spoke of 'ecorairoy he meant rational 'rebnonty.- I - le Wished the trioneysof the c,iortry to be administered with such ecoormiy astroightdiroinish r.trblie hurt!, us as far as this was pracoleabie; after the - stru,,:gleirt which the country had been engaged, and which bad - briiught on the present dis treas=a distress Veal Ire hoped Would prove but temporary. He wished for economy as 'tar as was consistent with trite policy, and,wills the principles of eternal - justice. But moil tiny knew what retretielancsitshaitheen effected by Ititiaters, acting under the injunction of Parliatlient, since it last met, they could uric Islam what relief could he afforded to the people, for they could nothnOw the means of which theyaverepossesSed. They . eetild not' know what measure of relief could be grant ed until they knew o het Could safety be ran - Jed-They could not know in what manner to apply t hemeani they did pos sess to the best tolvaloage, until they calculated by what ap plication they would fructify- Most far the benefit of the cone try. If the use should that 'night adopt the proposition of the Hots. and Learned Gentleman, before they knew what the.system which the (overoment has to recommend was, they' would not be acting - as became a' rational body. They would not decide upon the question creditably to themselves, if they came to such a conclusion; and'he was quite sure that by s o doing t beftvotilif not give satisfaction 'to the country. With this view,.aird wishing.: it distinctly to be understood, that Gentlemen should not bard themselves by the decision of that night, hut that the Proposition of the Hots. and Learn ed Gentleman should remotes open- to „their adoption here- . after, he called upon the House iii common sense and iii common reason, to vote-the. previous 'question', and thereby declare only that this was not the proper timettodecide on the great questions which the motiori enibratted.-(Loutt cheering.) Mr. CALCRATT - expressed his surprise at the mode in which the N o bl e L o rd h a d a ppr oac h e d that-tfirestiona sur prise in which he- - seas sine that the country, could they see the speech of - the Noble Lord, would participate. The topics which he had •eliscussed were not at • all connected with the subject. Would the Noble Lord contend that it would be no Cheek to thosf Gentlemen to be - ohliged to - appear at the tinter they received their pensions, 'when it could he known why they received them ? ‘Vorild it be - no check on those persons • if there c-as a chance of their losing those pensions To them the Noble Lord appeared not to grudge any giant, but lie ap peared to lament .Over the money granted •to the men who bad served their country as soldiers, as sailors, and as officers. Jobi, were not a theme of lamentation is, the Noble Lord; for though he had grieved over the half pay of tlsose who. had deserved well of the nation, be had never entertained any sorrow when he hail seen the 'Secretary to the Board ofCon .trol raisehis salary from 1,5001. per annum to 2,200). That ' and such like subjects trained uo source of lamentation for the Noble Lord, NVIIO had 'expressed his remarks—who had in tintated—who had besought the House to vote - fur the ;anions question,-on a promise that ors Friday, be would enter tit large on the question of relief for the Agricultural distress iit the country - . If the Noble Lord really wished to afford that re lief, the agreeing with the motion of the 1-lon. and Learned Member would be nothing more than a promise to-do so, for that motion required outline.: more than a removal-of taxation as oue of thy means for producing that effect. But what cre, dit was due to the Noble Lord,. the House ought already to know welt. The Noble Lord had,.last Session, nude use of si usi.lar words, but with whateffect ? The 'question oft he -dis tress of the Agricultural classes had been referred by the ma th:slurring of the Noble Lord to a Committee-composed for the toast part of the -Noble Lord's own- adherents• and special friends,`-and they had drawn op the Report Of that Commit -tee wed 'what relief had the countrysexperiericed from the labours of that Committee? The-Country Gentlemen could well declare what relief-they had received, and Irons the past, they could judge. of the future. What prospect had the speech of the Not•le Lordthen offered ?—Not even the slightest oleo lion had been. made of the remittal or of the,reduelion of any tax. If any alleviation of the taxes was contemplated by the Ministry, would it not have been easy for the Noble Loud to state that intention? But the Noble Lord had studiously avOded all such -promises, or evert all such prospect...— Coupling, I bereforeialte declaration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer with the case - obSerreirby the Noble Lord, its avoiding all statements as to rio:uctioes of the taxes, the House and the country had the strongest presumptive proof that.fkli ;lister s bad no intention whatever of reducing the weight .of taxes.—Two of the responsible officera of. the Crown had thus given their assurance to the people that alleviations of taxes was not contemplated. The proposition of the Hon. and .Learried Alernbet was nothing more than that taxation must be reduced to relieve the agricultural interests: Ibis Honourable and Learned Friend hail. stated the weight of taxation to - be an evil to the country; but that was not-the evil of which the Noble Lord.complained; the Noble Lord re garded the -loss of his own situ:ail/1i as the greatevil, fur, ac cording to the reasoning of the Noble Lord, it appeared that the only evil was that he and. his colleagues should lose their places. The Noble Lord thought that the country could in reality only suffer from that formidable evil ; but the House ought to know lite 'reality of • that evil. In Ireland, the re. stilt of tine Noble Lord's labours were well to be seen; and England could there behold what it had to expect from the Noble Lord. Inli eland, wbete the Noble Lord had fast be gan his political career, could Great Britain see the fruits 'of this Noble Lord's industry,—there had' the Noble Lord nicht ced the Repreaentatives of that people to surrender the rights of their country, and to trust to Isis promises for hefuture : But what had the-Noble Lord then done to redeem these pro mises'? Vchat measure had the Noble Lord proposed for the relief of that country? What measure to ameliorate the situ ation of that unfortunate island ? It the Noble Lord prided himself upon his conduct towards that couritry, and if the No ble Lord telt, like every other man, any affection for the land of his birth, it was good to look - to the result .of the Noble Lord's efforts. What were they ? Ever. the Noble Lord, it his heart had eves a spark of manly warmth, roust lanieitt to behold the state of that portion of the kargdorn ; he must lament to think' that he nes erliad called his silent ion tot be ruransof allei iating its misery, or of establishing its welfare; that he had not evert cast a thought upon it, except when its toisfortunes stared hint fully in the face. The voice of the Noble Lord was minute—it was never exerted for Ireland's benefit, but when it vatted for fresh vials of misery to he pained upon that no b:ropy cormtry.. The Noble lair d, ru order ter rebut the charge of having extended the extravagant grants' stated by the Hari. and Learned Member, had accused the Gentlemen on the opposite side of the- House of having been the pro neuters of that system. He denied the truth of that allega tion ; for the truth was, that Mr. Windham and Gen. Craw ford had nut been of the regular Opposition. They had be longed to a small party, and they rowere who, propounded that extravagairt questioit. He toad ever opposed that sys- • tens, and be could even appeal to the Noble Lord himself, :is being well acquainted trill,. the history of that period, as to the truth of the regular Opposition having always opposed, and even endeavoured to •reduce t h at system, but without ell, ct. The Hommrable Member here apologized to the House fur having so long detain, d its attention. It had, during the latter part of the obaerrations of the Ho nourable Member, been extremely inattentive, and great contusion prevailed, notwithstatoliog frequent demands of order from the chair. The Honourable Membercunclud ed by statiog,a hat he would only detain it fur :s few moo merits longer, while he besought.the country Gentlemen, as 'well as the other Memberi who had any hesitation as to the manner its which they intended to vote; to give -it in favour of 'lie Imo ion of his Hort. Friend, by which they would oblige Ministers -to give relief. If be thotight that Ministeri really recant to give relref, and if he could consider the rAotion Gf his Hun. and Learned Friend to be opposed to grautitig- relief to the Agriculturists, he would vote Against it ; • but when Goyertunertt had not declared its willingness to ternove any of the burdens of the people, an.! had not green any pledge sO to do, he felt it his linty to support a motion, which avas-Cal cisiatcal to isnow the real wishes of Members-as to affording that mooch dashed A. SIEMBEIt, whose name could not he ascertained, said that ire should vote against the motion, because he thongto it would he unfair towards the Ministers nut to wait forth, explanation of their intentions. At the state .time he most `observe, that if flee -tr they prop osed did not go tar , •re ine.o es roonigh to ufford considerable relief to the country,-he should "sopport others-more calculated to"du that it they "shoulstcorue fcron ft differs:or quarter. IW.;ARDO said, it -was perfectly consistent in thos e ' qe -wh. correei ved. that the variation in tbe cut rency had been as petit as had beets stated, fir' call fora 'clue lion of tiptiqiun, imonitlch as they: might say taut thOugliet prices httd-fal4e!'t in. conspqaetielit that , ear4tino, • - yet)thet .had. the.aarne notional :amount of taxes to• pay._ ' , But flu himself., • who 'thought.- that , the variation in , th'e• currency was •touch less t hen :was . ,p,3oy , supposed, Ite- could% nut admit that taxation.•operat ed su greatly in produentg the depression of the agricultural interest as was asserketl--,His Hun. Friend had alluded to the tax upon leat hee, , which , it ; had been proposed' to , repeal, but theptrsons engaged i i the leather trade petitioned against the repeal, staling, -that thonele navy taxes•existed, yet they mete able to makelaree profits by .advancing the prices. That appeared to i,Mr.:11..). nut' to• be an argument •for a .reduction of the taxation, fur the relief of agriculture, but a ; reason- why the agriculturist should rather petition against any • such reduction.. .•His "Hoteourablu • Friend maths' a vast, dis 4 tins:lion • between the agriculturist and the manufacturer, as to the . - effect of taxation. The tax oh .mantsict sees; he said, was easily charged • to the consumer ; but lie (Mi'. R.) was at a loss to conceive. how it -could be sup posed ..1 hat the taxes - on." the agriculturist were not i 1151! Charged to the consumer; and it. was because he believed - ,that they were charged to the consumer, that he cemeeiveo.. taxation not to be ,the Call., of the depression of tore; • but that it was 'owing to other censes' which had been ' mf-reel 'entinterated, amongst -which he would tuentiem••the superabundant • preduce, and the large constant importa tions front`•lteland, and he thought that Gentlemen tie-. eeived themselves, if they believed that any reduction of taxation winch - his Honourable Friend could -propose, or which the Lloverinnent could postiblY agree to, IsOuld afford Any. great relief.—(Hear, hear, hear,-from the Mithstai isi Behebes,)—ll is Honain able Friend • seemed to suppdse, ,lhat there were ' persons in the House, and els - 6.016e, who' ' wishi d to deprive the landholder of his fair and just weight and :cousideration in • the •coun: ry ; he (Ay. ,Bieardo) cuuld• `not think that arty such persons ex4ted. h respect to the stock-holder, it. appeared to tie sapposed, that a sehente had been furine4/for transferring the propertyjn the soil lion, the landholder to. the stood holder; 'bat he knew of no such pri , ject, nor did he-believe that it had ever been entertained. fti reality, at the. present moment, the stockholders'were, co : a - great ,extent,t he proprietois tit the land ; for, inasmuch as they received a certain sum in taxes from the .landboider, they had, to the extent of that ainount,• a claim ou the land. But that was tin more-than in fairness they were en titled to. If' every man had been called upon by the Mini ster to contribute, in proportion to • his possessions, towards the funds reqnisite: fur. det;aying the eXtieVICCS of the war, he would . ask whether the landholders ninSt net-hate part e d with a co nsiderable part ion of ? And if-other persons had been toundio advance the capital for them, upon what principle could they claim to be discharged frtint the payment of the interest ?- He did nut,ask for title stockholder mute titan be was entitled to: hut he could not but think that the compact with the steekholdet should be thoroughly fulfilled. Ott a future occasion •he wohld-talie an opportii: oily, il the Houie would do hint - the favourto listen to hint, to give the reasons why he thought the alteratiim.in the cur ram,' h d been Lanett • overstated, and why he -ettneeiVed, its tt thiiii;;lit - he cutild undertake to-prove, -that the whole ,ent of the effect which the measure adopted •in IS /9- had tad iu reducing. the prices of produce did nut exceed five per cent. Mr. BROUGHAM 'explained. • • Mr. W. PF,EI. spoke briefly 'against. the ;tuition. He br tieved, that Ministers were quite as willing and as anxious to relieve the distress of the country as thoseTersons why dealt in nothing but assertion and complaint . . ' He Was. gratified that reduetions". were aliout• to be made from the highest offices to the lowest,, as ,he was conviticed that such realm laical arrangements would slot only relieve, but satisfy, the country. . • Mr. BROUGHAM rose, and said, that Ire should trouble the - House sexy shortly in reply. The Noble Lord had char ged hint ttiih inconsistencY, for hating, us the Noble Lord affit Med, eOmplained of the weight of the half-pay and pen sion -list, tt Mile he had supported . General Cranfurd and Mr. Windham ill the propositions whieh had created this ourtheo. Now the Noble' Lot d 1141, attributed to him t his coocurrence .of opinion with .two gentlemen, one of whom he should not know by 'sight, and with lire other of whom ire had veryintfreqinenf opFrortnuities of -Concurring. Peng ral Cranfuld, he had never been in-company With even in pri- Vale society; and with Mm'. Windham, unfortunately for hi.oselt, - he bad passedlautis short part of onesession in that House(hear.) The Noble-Lord, tooosath equal con eetness, had charged him with supporting me:Lsures in 1503, -seven long years-befare he hall the honour of a seat in that House.—(Heat !)--11ut • though he had ito cannexion with the measures of Mr. %Vint]. ' ham, he should remark that the Noble Lord had dealt very tiotairly .with,t hat, Gentleman, for he, hadcharged Mr. Wind ham with the %%bide dead weight 'of four willious , the diffea-• dice between the halt-pay ,of 1792, which amounted to '500,0001., anti that of the pi esent day. Mr. Windham's plito only tended to augment the charge. a little on - a particUlae branch; yet the. Noble laud charged him with the whele._of the 4,700,0001., which incloded -the Army and Nary, the in 'pensioners of Chelsea and' Kiltuainhani, and the expence of 'Greeowich Hospital. Such a degree of exaggeration, as the' Noble. Lord would terra it, was quite preposterous. The Noble Lord-had also observed, '• the -House will.perceive the way how little relief is to be expected from, the redoetisin of taxation, when in latti eighteen millions of thXes had been, taken off, and yet very little relief' had been eXperieneed." But he would ask the Noble ,Lord, could the .country have 'continued to ithont that reduclitin?- - --(Hear, hear, .heat !J—We' here very bad as we were, Mit how should We have been with eighteen millions in addition to - our load?-- (Hear, bear, iteter!l—flis•(Mri B.'s) complaint was' that at the ti we that the House had taken off that nominal of taxes, Su great •a change had been effected in•the ciirrency , that our buithens had been increased to an equal, nay, to still greater . amount ; the increaser y•the change ot the cur rency being at the value (>1.22 millions, while the diminution - by tint repeal,of taxes was only 22 ni Hon. Friewil (Mr. Ricardo) had also sought to convict biro o an inconsistency. Because be (Mr. Biougharn) had tetnarked, that the Leather Tax had been ficeined beneficial by tbcdeal ers,-therefore, according to his Hon. Friend, he should hare .asserted that the tax on agricultural produce stniuld be 1'en,41 7 cial to the firiners. lie knew not whether his Hon. Fri e nd had been infected by•t he Noble-Laird with that spiritoljocularity iu which the speech ut the Noble Lord had abounded, but it not, it was Medallist:lit on him to slew souse parity the- eases; The gist of his (Hr. -Brougham's) reniarlf. had been, that in the 'ease of the leather, the Jew great capitai ists who conducted it, were; by - means . of the additional pita{ which the tax 'rendered necessary, enabled to (Irate' a monopoly, while, ot, the abolition of the-tax, they said the small capitalists would be enabled to step in. Nu,- if his Hon. Friend would skew him three or tow agriculturists managed in their own hands the,whole business ut taming in the country, he would say t here ,was a resemblance between the cases.—H e would once 111016 befirre the Houseproceethn to a division, pray the Gentle men to - consider the step theywtrr laking—(Hearl)—TheNoble'Lord • Kati urged them to agree with Ina) on the previous qtrestion, hev.atist having so voter! they might on Friday sole tor his - (Mr. B.'s) motion; by way of - amendment, if the measures which the Noble Lord might then ' propose should not besatistactury. - , lt hasoccurretltottteNoble Lord that a serious advantage is gained by waiting till Friday, though he gave them to Understand that nu relict - would thin be atrorded to the country—by reduction ot• taxes. The Noble , Lord now called nn them to'vOte tor Ihe pit villas question ; ou Friday he-wbuld calion' them not to vote•at ale; to pause - auo eArsider ; ally thin, , r, rather than a decision, anything to avoid- the issue, lice only real and intelligible- issue—shall there or shall there not be a 'reduction of taxation ? by wheedling this Member, qty ltreatening-tkat, by setting out part of the Hattie against. another, by amusing. two .patts at Ilse expence, of a third; above all, be threatening to resign— (Hear, hear, hear!' and •a Ituglij-,-that ,ultimuin suppii L'ooo to his suppurters, that whip- with whieh-to-rouse-teen failing energy when the pressure front the people Wit ilptlt ass their rept esentatives, or those thatslonld bet ben kepresenta tiyes, btgati to bear them-down apdopiness •' ; 1 know," hid the Noble Lord said, that thts'is a threat to thos,e nit, t hough it is no threat to the emlutiy, that I 5 Itould have the power which I have &Aped, which I am determint.ti not le tile for the relief of the country." lie(Alr. II.), however., would give those Gentlemen thi, topic of consolation, that whattaer iLeir decision !night be;, tlie . .Nohle Lord would. not cart;lns tixteat into execution (bear, lkear - ! and.a langle);the Nolole Lund would nut go out, for .this womki not •tee axe first in- _ . . . itaitce hi which ht. bad iirru kft ill a niiuurity. , Kftrr baring o•ot promised •to go out,l,ut . 1:11ked of going our. It was iu however, for him (Mr. B.) to say t hist in tikee of such .a threat he hoped to carry his motion. The .geietletneti.who had been addressed by the Noble Lurd wuttld no doubt, be. terstmtled to reserve themselves till Frtduy, but e.vrry-ot►e of hem must belirve that the prupositipu wnich the Nulde Lurd ittend.ed to tiring forward on next Friday went lova tttdue• ion of nixes, of he zntt,t hold hinrAelf tis the..enenty, and he elticie.nt etittny, to the -retttetiun of tmation.—. 7 (.l-leur !,) The Iluttse divttlett— For tiw previous question . . . . • Against et . . Al a j urity -iO4 Adjourned at ELEVEN We puderstaAd that COAnuaissiosaer SKin4x, late Cttairmau of the Viauallieg Board, has re fused ;he reOretnent of a Nag Officer, and in. tends to #kilinii; WS . csoe to Pariiameut:--(P/N- Tclegrapli.) LONDON MAiIKi?,TS. ' I'ItI OE *() P . ‘BARAIYTEID•UWEE.x. 'Tbr liitti:est price of the. best Wbehten th!.. Aletruppils, is stiaQl ll )y - tire'pt•incirg i l I.3aliers to + - Jo 1034! tht,lithaterh' I.mil....,Soritecßithure the' au - Ala:1).0 Ltedir froth.oue to two , petiee•lows:r., . . . fr., . oz . 1 b.ot, 1 Perk lAN fto wt , igii l7 6' l Qua rt r r n Loaf, to werr;li , 1 .5 i illilt ditto.. ditto '..,.. . 8 I la' Ilittf Qi.tallecoflit to :. 'e".2l LAST Wheat F.nglisti. Foreign• • • 3:iiha - 1,690 • 5 Ityv . 0:3 Peat's Ahistard 9;100 1,121 Studs :: Mom Brauk . 390 , - i2U 9-2 . riC 14 EOF 1401'N, ptr I'%‘ 1., Feb. 9. . . 1 1,, e1,0,:t . 1 bat s, Kent.. 2i las a 41- Os a 51. Os .Kent ..41 lOs a ;it i(1; a 401 3 .. .tISSC.X.. ei 10, a - 01 , 2;a 34 los Nos , r:4 .•r.l Gs a :21 i 4; iJF ' fiS , ;43rx _2l 16s aSI 15s a 4115./9 .E , stx.. 21 , 145. a Lit 1G'..4 41 0.3 Farulo a. tint., 71 to 101 Og—SvConds, 4) 'los to 71 ';',i• SEI:IJs, Feb. it.' Red Clover (Foreign) 26: 4is-lite, '6:15•653, Ilea 'cwt. Ditto English 1t 3 340i-L-time Vs'ilite ditto Pits 52, , —rfe; 116 s ;o. i!le-Grass Is-to E.24s per +IC. 'Turnip Seed * . Ol.l ' ‘VlLite Mustard Seed Brown ditto to. to las Od Ned - anti Green ... Od to Ca traway Seeds s ls to ft.ss—fitle, 67s Coriander do. lO, 14515. Citiquie loin T .SOS to 04 , —hrte poe qr. Trefoil itibgrass S4s—.filly, •Itis Canary per ..... wis to 44c fat • 'pet qk". Lint , et'd 4t : 18 s — fine,At>. : > - .183 per qr . . Rape . Winter Tares to tif3 vev-itr. SMI 1 - 1F114;1,1) (To snn: ttar.Offa;—per Stone of Sibs.) Beef Qs Sd to 4c Cd I Veal ...... bd to itl s t ,‘luttun • Lamb O4 Od to Os ad 111 A D OF CATTLE TUIS 4AI - q Beasts 2) ;,... f )3{. ( 11) p : i a g i s v . es .14 4 Sitter _SO • • NEAVGATE NI) LEADENILILL A/A ft.4;:TS,__ — 11v-thy Carea , ..4e.. • Licef 2s Od to as 4d 1 Veal • '34 0:1 tt; 55 . 44 Mutton. s 41i 0) 3..% 4d Pork 'es' 4u tt, 4.;, 4d I.:+10), Os Ott to Os Od. ST. JAMES'S HAT MARKET; Hay.... al 3s Od to 41 4s 'Od Clovtr, 10s to 4i 19 5 sttaw.. d7s Od d 19s Od • SMITHFIELD. Hti ay , StrAw •1 8s .0d to 11 las CM—LA vvrag e , 41 474 CloVer ... .. .31 103 0(.4 to 414 04 v, rage, 41 .04.6,1 WHITECHAPEL. Hay 3r los od to 41 0* oii-- , --Avera , r'e 9 41 6* Od .99 New ditto Ol Os Od to 01 Os od—L-Ave.:agc; 01 u 9; Straw • , Clover 4l Os 011 to 4! I 3& Od--Avvrar, 41 lo* ki RAW lIIDES. [lest Heifers 5‘ Steers, per st.. 0111w: t ry ~. 9c e t i t o 2s 4d . . 2s 101 l to 3s Oi! '...ilitritet Cull ".. inch.. to Vid Nlitit!hugs—. 2s 6ti to 2s Stt Eng`.. Horse Os .0(1 to Os (l i'9lled -SHEEP S , ld t o ix,: )owns SKINS. Sheep Lkolt.s os Ott to osOJ PItICE OF LEATHER. Butts 51) to .561bs each... ...... per lb lo Ditto, &ti to tifill;s eaeli ............... . .... ,941 to -24 J Dressing Hides 17d ;B'3 Coach Hides- Croriflitlei, :35 to 4,01bs for cutting Ditto .... 45 to bulbs , ' Calf bkins.:SO to 40Ibs Ditto So to ` 22 3,t l 70113 s 28d to i Ditto 7O to 80155 Sinall . Seals (Gteenian.l) ..18d to utl Large thttO 1.5 d to 'Funned Horse Hides Itid to Spanish Hor.e Hidri l6d to 22d PRICES OF TALLOW Town Tallow 53s Yellow It tissia sas Od —s Oil ‘Vliite ditto .. 50s Od --s ..oz-sp ditto.... 47S Oii —s ad , Melting Stull - 40s rid —s ui Ditto itongti.., 26s Od —s Od NI ICE.OF CANDLES, FRAI Price of Candles, per doze: tisl per dozen allows , so3P; &c: par i t-. 111). YellwA; Soap ' ;114u.tied KAI Curd , Gracrt Good Dregs is NI TALLOW CHANDLCRIA HALL. 11, 94 (id -- Moulds, 119 ti fur ready money. PRICE OF RAW FAT, per Stone of Slh..—ref;;ll, Price of Tallow (as statrd by the Tallow Melters); 2s 9.id r FOREIGN WOOLS, per 11,. Span. Sheep. s. tt s. d. s. d. 9. d. I,conv,ft 3'6 a a 4 6 'Saxony, Ist .. . 5 6 a 7 .3 iceoeia , 3 0 3 9 V.. 4 0 • a 3 Sof is 2 9 a 3 3 i 13o12ein. Ist .. 4 I) A ,. 7 0 Seville' - 2,1 .. 3 . 6 a 4 ..3 PRICE, 0 St3o,llt. REFINED Single I.aaveB • 791 a ARC nimble d 0...... 141;$ a 1 C.b.. Ha 111 I)rir' IEB s a M 24 Britiards AI olassec .24i eines'; Broairt • .COAL MARKET, k 7 4:1/.11. Nhips At Market. Ships•sold. Price. 4lii Newcastle 41: Sunderland COUNTRY GUILDFORD Wheat per 1. 7i Os to 171 Os 'New- Wileat .. 01 Os to:01 Os Oats, per v... 01 14s to 11 5s New ditto. -... 01 Os - to 01 Os 14'0). 9. Barley, new, 0! Cis in 1114 Beans; iber qr.ll 2 to IFRrc Pease,prrqr. II 45'141 11 Rs Rye, per tir. i 1 4g. t. BIRTH'S. On Tuesday, at Preshaw 'Hous e' •thesßiglit'llon. Lady Mary Long, the Laqy of Waiter" Long, Esq. of a 'daughter, . On Fritiar, - the Bth• instant, at 22, Sloane-sqiuire, the:Lad'y of captain Itienard Grant, of a son. litßyde, ott'Saturdaylast, the Lady of the, Rev. J. IMI, of S-honklin 'Parsonage, of a son. Last week, William Shotton, Esq. of nombay, to Miss , Serut. toa, :the datighi.er of Richard Scrotum, Esq. or Durham. On Thurday se'nnight, at AlverstQlte, Captain liekins, R. N. to Miss Hickey, niece of Ms. James Jones, •Vinser, !Royal Navy. On Saturday, the 9th instant at Twicitenhatn4hordi, Alex- Ander , Sharp.,.Estp.of Dunibartorrshlre, to friargarkt, youngest daughter of thatte Alexander ilarsle.y,-Esq.of Brampton. On Sunday sennight, at. Somer's Town Captain illtofriaS Cale, aged Ai. kle was a gallant Ofdcor ; "be tectiired•a :sword from Lloyd'a.for cutting out a slestructivo Frenehyltits. 1804 ; he lost a•le .5 when first Lieige.nainC4 The Bien tselm,iu lia.diug on the saasnal in staining a batittly . Man/nape. On the lath December, at Caen, in Nontitansly, of a PO plenary conaumptiou,, O'Beiesai Seer.eon, in the Royal Navy, late Dispentsor the ft copiki, Halifax, NtWil Scott*. Printed and Published, for the PucfputETousi, at the Sri• OPVICE, 112, Strand, by CARSTAIRS. HAW. Jamaica, fittiwn b.'3R a 59s Middling 'GOB • a (iti, Gaud • ,•6B's a 745 'Antigua, Wvirl 515 a 57s 591 a 6::35 Good • 465 a G9s