The Sun. — London, England, 1822-02-06 00:00:00

411 ; 4, 4 ded o. lt attacks; base an opted P t. :'r it, 0" approba ght be a t ' and gave on. get': s had his y general imseit called one in - ade. ll r-Air=relnr as not p,2rfectli r the sperm" - it;ersultrw . .. -the . ,su)ojg part itself. - Ili" lade. by, '72, 7sons itt t' , t to-fake tion of • the a most 7e. nioadrci the immara a ' greard•—' iabie elate '11"t. In/Uteri • 77 44 'c laws ~attested n. lent ha harass the peo se_. ate saw nothing in the Spee-± eeeerding Scotland. The reti were a wary and- thriftypteelte and were not driven tp .wasperationilike - the Irish. He ceolei, hoWeVera 'state same ieriev • ti i n n tr t y hat country too. The state of the Burghs `ll an at ee ee s resembled the corruption in that Eloirse.-- „ .1 n a Noble Lord (A.' H am ilt o n), whom he then saw in zoT.tPlilloscee'' B br u cr rg li s t .: into the House. a petition for the Reform he (Sir Francis Burdett) did not take anY:sflare in that discas s io n , - because the Scots might . sup pose, from his principles of Reform, their cause Might suf fer. :•But ' a ll th ose grievances might be summed up in one word --namely, the undue influence of the Ministers. No "could he done without a reform of that House. Those economical Reformers were the worstof Reformers.—No suf ment or effeetual relief could be obtained withbut a thorough reform of that . House. It was hard at present to distinguish parties in that House ; but the broad and true distinction was !-T,t . o, those Who were R eformera, and those who wereCorruptionists. uteare hear !)—lt was his own intention to bring forward the pestion of,Reform in that House if the Noble Lord below him had not given notice to that effect in the course of the evening. eThe jloan Baronet said, in conclusion, that, in due respect to , Crown and to themselves, 'and to the country at large, he trusted that his Majesty's 'Speech would be taken into consia on' • . aton the day after to-morrow (Thursday.) Mr. HOBH01)813 rose to second the amendment of his col. league, the - Hon. Baronet,. There were, he observed, promises of retrenchment constantly made, but it was for the House to see if this retrenchment had been effected. In'the year 1697, as well as he recollected, when King William had promised to dia. band his Army • and when the House saw that he had not dis. banded it, the Army; of that House entered into a resolution that the - King should disband it. That was a circumstance i which bore a similitude to the present case. We heard of a re duction in the Military establishment—we bad nothing of th 9 `ltind in the Gazette, but • we had . aeeti more 'than 100 neweap- Pointments and promotions. The House ought not to be called ou to move an Address to the Speeth without first knowing ` ,- Itat had been done. His atajesty ought to have known that the Louse did nothing 'without due consideration of the ifrosands of its proceedings. It was then quite time to have cane with the custom of moving Addresses without previous co nsideration. The country had come to the conviction that °°lnething was to be done to relieve its distresses. With the g r eatest respect for the Hon. 31ernbe.r who seconded the Ad re,,,, lie (Mr.Hlth Oouse) Hoped what had dropped from him would not have much effect upon the House. Indeed, he saw a smile on the faces of many when the Hon. Gentleman as flbeder much of the discontents of the country to disaffection.— i e.e trusted that mould . be the last time disaffection or revo lution would be heard in that house. The Nation had been • robbed of their property,. and knew well who . took that pro. Petty from them, and - for what purpose. It was for the Purposes of corruption—(Hear, hear, hear !)—their money was taken. A s to foretell politics, lie did not see what reason we had to congratulate ourselves. Ile saw no reason for congra tulation on the state of France, for instance. The Honour , able Seconder talked' of peace in foreign countries, ' but not a Word on the state of Greece, and of the glorious efforts of that People. For the state of the different kingdoms on the Con tinent the Noble Lord opposite (Londonderry) was account able. He (Mr. Hobhouse) should be glad to know who put J-Norway under the dominion of Sweden ? Who was it that Put Poland under Prussia ? Who was it that put Saxony Iltider 'the same power ? Who was it that put Italy tinder 4 -uatria ? Who subjected Sardinia to the same power? The honourable Gentleman congratulated the House on the state of foreien politics. Where ? In France—in• Italy—in the north orGirmany—or in the blood-stained valleys of Greece ? (Hear, hear hear !)—The Hon. Member then alluded - to the cond uct Of Sir T. Maitland in the lonian Isles, and to it as cribed the unhappy state of the natives. He hoped his Hon. Colleague mould.persevere in his amendment, and would reed the House to that good old practice of adjourning the considera tion of the Speech to a future day. The SPEAKER having read th- Address from the Chair, And put the question on the amendment— _ Mr. GRATTAN rose to cell the attention of the House and .O 1 countrymen to the happy omen of better days to Ireland, which discovered itself in the notice taken of that country in .. his ;Ilajesty's most gracious Speech. That •country, he feared, would ever be the same, whilst the laws by which it was -tailed, and the condition of the people, continued . as they were. He was willing that She 'should be punished for the cranes of some of her natives, but by no means that the • Whole country should suffer alike, for evils and crimes which -were only partial. . There was great distress he knew, but there was no disaffection. The distressed sallied forth in ban . dini, and carried on a warfare against the police and against the military. 'rile Hon. Gentleman adverted to the past history of 'lreland to shear that the evils Which at present oppress that country are the growth of time and inherent in the elements of which it is composed. The people, he observed, were divided 1 1 ) :, religion, and still more unfortunately by laws. On the one ;4 18- ,nd was the Gentry and the .people at war about property, 1 ,. 711 ',0n the other the Clergy and the people in open dis • li n „ t ic`a upon religion. this were to be attributed to the ""°n, he lamented that it had ever been effected, and repro vi e tred those who-had. at that moment deserted their country. • elle kindest, if not the only kind act since the Union, was the sit of his Majesty, which created so wonderful a metamor nesis, that Irishmen did not know each other. Instead of the rieart-rending spectacle which the inhabitants of that country Presented from their feuds amongst each other, and the 'collision of violent and powerful parties, it seemed to be a country de ''stined to form the happiness of all who dwelt in it—where all difference of sentiment were dropped, all distinctions waived to ensure cordiality. He felt as much as any Honourable (gentlemen the necessity of returning, to that scale of expen e l L iture which exi s ted in Ireland in 1792 e and he feared the ePreciation in the incomes would be the means of effecting that which their votes would not. It was not a large army that would correct the evils of absentee gentry, and he enter taieed the most favourable expectations that in the promised co nsideration of the distresses of Ireland that it would be disco vered, and means found to.epply a more kindly remedy.—( Hear!) The Marquis of LONDONDEaIIy said; he•WoUld trouble the House only with a very few obser vations. He was rather surprised at the course Pursued by the Hon. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett), for, in the whole course of his Parliamentary experience, he did not recollect an instance of kliy Address in answer to a Speech from the rthrone, more calculated to conciliate the- temper of the House, and to meet with the approbation of all parties, than that proposed by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Clive). He could not therefore but eXpress his regret that any thing should have °ccurred to interrupt that tone of conciliation tecomanended by the lion. Mover, in whoSe sehtiments the Honourable Baronet expresied himself disposed to acquiesce. He thought the hest mode upon the present occasion would be to adopt the usual course, by allowing rte :Address to pass without discussion. This .`Yould be more respectful to the Crown, at the satfie time that those who might dissent from !fly topic alluded to in the Speech, would still be perfectly free as to the course they might Jo future think it expedient to pursue, when the 14 lbjects which it embraced were. afterwards brought under the consideration of the House. 41 e could assure the House, that if by agreeing t o the AddresS they could for a moment be con sidered as pledged to support the views it took o f the various - topics alluded to, he would not at :teropt to press the immediate adoption of it.. But the Gentlemen opposite knew very well that they 'could not be thus duped into an approbation of Measures without previous inquiry neither should he -suffer himself to lfe drawn . into the discussion 4 f them by any thing that had fallen from the lon - . Baronet or his colleague. The Hon. Ba ronet would forgive him for thinking. that, 'though • his -speech- embraced a variety of observations upon various and important . sub- Jects, it 'seemed , to have been made princi lly for the purpose of announcing the course he meant to pursue . in the preSent SeSSion, :with respect to the question of Reform, and of declaring that it was not his intention to support it to the extent of UniversalSuffrage,but .rather ou the more Moderate prinCiple of the Noble Lord (Ebrington.) He (the Marquis of - ‘ 1, .) . would be less indisposed to meet the question Oil the latter ground, at the same time that he B alw no reason to alter those sentithents Which he Wits' know-tt- to enteriain . on- the subject. The matter to which he wished now to direct the ate tention of the House was, the various important points embraced• by the Speech. if the Address could pledge the:House on these points, and that by agreeing to it all further discussion was to be shut out, be thought the Hon. Baronet's amend ment ought to embrace three months rather than One or two dap, -fur. it would be-impossible to give the subject full consideration in less time. — Though the House agreed to . the Address at.pre. sent, it would not'prevent the fullest inquiry into the ,great interests of the country, into. its cons merce, its manufactures, its hicoMe,and expendi ture ; but above all into the agricultural distresses, to which the HoUse would as early as pOssible give the fullest consideration. He thought they l i would best consult the interests of the public, as well as the wishes of -the House, by going sepa rately into each subject alluded in the Speech, in- place of pledging themselves to take it into consideration the day after to-morrow. If the 'Address should be carried, as he had no doubt it would by a very large majority, he did not in tend that Thursday should be thrown away. He proposed on that day, if the amendment of the Hon. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) should be re jected, to bring •utider the Consideration of the House the present state of Jreland, with a view to soar measures- as it might be expe., 'client to adopt. The 'subject was most impor *tent, not only in reference to Ireland itself, but as connected 'with the 'peace and' prosperity of the empire. He would not lie doing that ditty he owed to the House - and to the public, if he did not take this opporttinity of mention ing the course' ',which his 'Majesty's Ministers meant to pursue with respect to the other topic's of the Speech. He could assure the House, that there was not the most distant intention of blink ing any one of them, but a determination to bring the most important forward' at the earliest possible period. His Majesty's Ministers were most anxious that every thing 'affecting the agri cultural interests should be fully considered, with a view to the best measures that could be devised under existing circumstances. He would, befOre the end of the week, name some day for bringing the subject forward. He could not at present positively say M hat day, but at latest Friday, in the next week. The distress of the agriculturists occupied the most serious attention that Ministers could give to a subject of such paramount importance.. He would not be so vain es to say that they had taken the most correct view of the causes from which it arose, or the reme dies it would be most effectual to apply, but they would then be prepared to'state their views, and what appeared to them some remedy for the evil. lie could assure the House that,for aconsiderable time, it had received the most laboured and attentive in vestigation it was in thepon'er of GOvernment to give it. lie would not pretend to say that the remedy would be completely effectual; but he - hoped, that when the mind, the combined know ledge, and experience of - the House, was brought' to bear on it, something might be done to alle viate the great difficulties that existed. His Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exche quer) would not delay longer than the following week after the subject of agricultural distress had been considered. He would then be prepared to submit to the House, in moving the repeal of the Superannuation Bill, a statement of the reduc tions that had been made in the .various public offices, and the retrenchment that took place in the other departments of the State, in the army and navy. The House would then be put in full posses sion of the general receipts and expenditure of the empire. This he hoped would proVe to the House that it was not the intention of Ministers to sleep on their posts, but to bring the great interests of the country as speedily as possible wider the view of Parliament. It would be pre sumptuous in him to say that nothing they had done was capable of improvement, that it could not be rendered better by the suggestions of those -Gentlemen who had devoted their atten tion to such topics ; bet hetrusted at least that what they should submit to the House would prove how anxiously and sincerely they had. de voted their attention- to the interests of the coun try, how sincerely they had them at heart ; that no pains had been spared to investigate them, rind nothing omitted by which retrenchment could be.combined with the permanent interest and se curity of .the empire. Mr. HuTcntrrsoN said that no man was more disposed than hirriSelfto giVe additional force, if necessary, to the artn of civil power ; but in voting for the Address, he should not do his duty Thhe - did not express a hope, that if measures of severity should be deemed necessary in Ireland, they would- be accompanied with measures of reconciliation also. Mere, measures of severity could never restore peace to that unhappy country. lie would beg teave- to remind the Noble,Lord, that 19 years back he called his attention to the subject, and said, that in, place of new Parlia mentary measures, the best way would be to keep the pledges made at the time of the Union.— This he repeated in 1303, but it was not attended to.. The pledges made at.the time of the Union were never redeemed, The state of Ireland was not brought under the consideration of the .Cabinet, as it ought to have been. He knew not what measures were now in contemplation ; if they were only. measures of severity, they would never do any good. The state of Ireland should be searched to the bottom ; the country had great and crying grievances to he removed, before any thing effectual _could be done towards trao quillizieg it. The tithes, and the evils arising from non-residence, were among these grievances. The Noble Marquis (Londonderry) Wasmuch deceived if he supposed that . the state of Europe was so tranquil as the. Speech represented.. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, the Address did not pledge the House .to the adoption of any measures of seve rity with regard to Ireland, but merely to take the subject into consideration. To-morrow he would lay before the House dis patches reamed from the tlerquis of Wellesley, which would put thenfin possesSion of information relative to the state .of that country anti enable them to .couie better prepared to the coopideration of the subject, Sir JOHN NEWPORT' n'aid . , if be thought the . speech called for penal measures, without considering and investigating thoroughly. the state (if t i ht; cnlitry, and proposing at the ,same tine means; of conaliation, he elioiilii not vote for the Address. The Noblb LSid,'h owever, had 'cl ed that' the Qbject to be considered was; what weans of conciliation it would be proper to connect t'u case, the Address had ?iii • Mr. - BROU(;11:.1. - M' - store Orflie agriculture of the Icing : de,* that even .this. first night. of th 9 Session shoUld not be, alljwcitto`pass..over Without the edh:4l, deratiOn of that very • important question, being entertained by that House. Ile felt himself P - artieulaily aiikions to del, liver his opinion upon t've-eoseussion of .that questie.l, becaus:: lie had, from 4 varier y . of eaUS - es,:been absent when that most important siib:ject, the resuMption of (jash Payment:; was under the consideration 'of Parliiimentthat Measure to which he consider:d much of the present distress of the country could be traced. He Would, howeVer, reserve him self until the consideration of the Report—when he- would state what he considered to be -best; and what he found was the only specific remedy—he meant a reduction of taxation.- -(Hear, hear !)—He could have wished the House should not separate without some assurance,tolhe country, that before the carrying up to the,Throne the Address then under considera, tion, - that the attention of Parliament should be directed to the subject of the Sinkinc , Fund, with an intention of putting an end to it for ever, and, which he. should denominate an arith metical error under which the.country had long laboured. Al- though h elamented that that pledge would not be giyen, he; for one, would, to-morrow, on the Report, fully discuss the meitsure, and the only remedy that he thought effectual. Mr. HUME hoped the amendment of the lon. Baronet would be carried, for the time was now arrived when ,that Reuse Must act with some regard to the feelings of the country, 'Those who sat. there ought no longer to look to the interests any partienlat set of men, but ought solely to regulate their votes by a reference to the real interests of the country.. Ii the proposition of the Hon. Parini:l should unfortunately be ne gatived, so soon as the House resumed, he would submit to them another Amendment, which„, he hoped, would be carried unanimously, if there Was any sincerity within those walls. Steangers were then ordered to withdraw. The House then divided, when the numbers were — For the Address - 186 Against it - - - 58 • Majority - - On the re-admission of strangers to the gallery, Mr. HOME said, if the Min. Mover and Se. : emitter of the Address would_. declare .that they had not received it from Ministers, and had not delivered it verbatiiii the same as 'they hoc: re ceived it, then he 'weuld contend that it was most unreasonable to call upon the House . to vote at once an Address so perfectly in unison with the Speech. But if Ministers wrote the Speech and the Address, could there be a greater farce than to find Ministers thus dictate a Speed), and then dictate an answer, to that Speech, with this only difference—that they had the honour of putting the Speech into the month of his Majesty, and the answer into the. mouths of two Hon. Members of that House (A laugh.)—He did hope, when the. cry and prayer of distress, .carne up from the remotest corner of the land, that some one of those Gen tlemen who - had uniforinly and .strenuously op posed the extravagant measures and oppressive encroachments of MiniSters—he did expect that some one of them would have, moved an amend-: ment, pledging the House to the most rigorous retrenchment ; it was.. therefore only in default of such a proceeding, in a quarter from which he had expected it, and, hecause he was desirous of pledging the House to something, that .he world now submit an amendment. But before he should state that amendment, he begged to offer', a.feW observations., The Hon. Gentleman had . congratulated the Muse on the passing of the six Acts. He (Mr. Hume) said the HQllse was disgraced by those Acts.—(Hear!)—roa starving people, instead or bread, they had given a -stone. In the Speech, 'the Colonies were said to be flourishing. If there were any colonial proprie tors in the House, or ally who knew the state of the Colonies, let them answer whether the fact was so. He, from what he knew, denied it. With regard to our foreign relations, it would not be many days befori he would submit the conduCt of Government to the consideration of the Mouse —conduct that was disgraceful on their part as ' Christians, and abominable as men.. He alluded to their conduct in favour of the Turks. But there was another circumstance—an omission in the Speech, to which he .would, only allude. This was the first instance since England had a public ministry, that the: death of the first subject in the realm was passed over unnoticed in the Speech from the Throne. She had been persecuted unto death—she had been persecuted even after death. (Hear, 'hear 1 )—Of ; her . no mention was made in the speech, contrary, to the . adage -which said that no hostility should be carried beyond the grave by those who Would have any claims to charity. No act like this omission was ever done by a Ministry before. But to return to the speech of the. Honourable seconder of the A& dress. He had congratulated the House on the high and commanding situation of this country. Yet what was this situation? We were not able to provide . for our own expendi ture ; and foreign nations knew that we could be made the jest of any foreign power, because of our inability to redress ourselves. This was the, high and commanding situation on which the Honourable Member had thought fit to congra tulate the House. Next as. to the visit to Ire land ; he for one had extremely rejoiced at that visit. He hoped that the results would be heoe ficial to that country. When the Visit to Ireland was mentioned,. he did expect to hear of :nea sures :to be brought forward for thepurpose of making the people of ,Ireland friendly to us, and of enabling us to withdraw the large force which was. kept there, and : daily_ increased. Here be _would advert to a statement Olt the revenue of Ireland . Was improved. In' the year 1818 it had been 4,900,00d1.; in 1819, ‘5,500,0601., in 1820, 4,900,000/. This lyear there was an improvement, it was- said, 'of 400,0001. But that was less than the revenue of 1819 by 200,0001. He would now call attention to another topic,. He had heard a report yester day evening, that the Treasury were-to borrow 4,000,0001., from the- Bank for some purpose, perhaps, the Right lion. Gentleman would .ex plain- He had lately obtained a document from the Secretary of the Treasury, which shelved that the conSolidated fund was 9,000,000/. in arrears. If the Bank, then, did not advance 'money, the dividends : could not be paid. The revenue of this country might be progressive, but the. Right Honourable Gentleman did every thing in his power to prevent the understanding of it. He had yesterday made , up a calculation upon this subject. He called, the attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman to it, for the subject was one of the most vital importance. It was a statement of the annual receipts and expenditure front ISI7 to 1820., ending in January, 1821. .1n that statement the charges of thanag,enient were includedin the di'sbursernen f.---(llear,hear 1) —He had included the whole of the Merle); it;- ceivvd, but what might be in the hands of the, collectors lie would not answer ?or. tte re ceipts were, i+► • - 1917 a i'r:B 0900)00 some oadsi , 1818 57,000,000 • 57.000100 • 1.320 • - - : t.q,0110„000. , . . . ..• Pic revenue of 1820 ivas only -£55,600 more than in 1817. • roe eipenditure was, dBl7 £73,082,000 . hag - - . 7 2 4 00 # 000 , ; 1819 '/3 . ,608,000 • ► • 1820 74,91:10,000V .T-he expenditure thus gradually increased. though in 1818, the Right Hon. Gentleman had added 3,000,0001. to the taxes, he would thank the Right Hon. Gentleman to shew where that increase took - place in the revenue. In Ireland the revenue was decreasing, while in England it was increasing. The people 'of England paid taxes to .keep up troops for keeping Ireland in order, and the revenue of Ireland had decreased in conseqUente of the presence of those trOops (Hear, hear !)—The • revenue, then, was ,equal to • our expenditure, or it was not. Ile was prepared to' shew that, during 'the last four years, the i gight Honourable Gentleman had lost more than 4,000,0001. to the public. To the course of the session hewould shew, that the Right Hon: .; Gen tiernan had, since he had had the charge of the Treasury.; - lost' 15,000,0001. to the, public. This was no slight charge,•and 'therefore he hoped that. the Right Hon. Gentleman would .exert himself to clear up his - accounts. fie was prepared - to • • - shew that the loSs was from 10,000;0001. to I , 15,000,0001., • and to prove it to the satis faction of all who understood the four firSt rules 'of arithmetic. The same farce has been.incessant-i ly repeated—borrowing to-day what Was to be laid out to-morrow, at a discount, for paying..off debt.—(Hear !)—The total income of the, last four years, : exclusive of loans, was . 235,768,462!. The expenditure for the same period, exclusive of the, Sinking Fund, was 231, 0 85. e 7'76/. here , • • t was, then, a surplus revenue of 4 482 this surplus had been properly laid out, debt (ight to have been redeemed'to that extent. If, then, it had been applied to the purchase of 3 per cents. at 70, 213,0004 annually would havo been redeemed. To this ought to be added ; long annuities and - land-tax redeemed, '261,0001.; making a total of 473,0001. deducted from the annual ekpenditure. But, instead of that, the, expenditure was increased. Where two parties were engaged in such transactions, one must win and the other lose, or both mast have -equal teems. But in themanagement of' this surplus 4 prOCess: of this kind took place. It was . iven to ,the Sinking Fund Conmiksioners, who sold stock at 50 or 60, and then bought again, perhaps, the very same debentures, for .70 or 80: The consequence was, a loss to the such, as he hid repreSent e d,, serions, loss to • the public in this way deserved" particular atten tion. He Wished the surplus had been brought to the buying up at once of public debt, and not • applied in this circuitous manner, and for the purpuse keeping - up the grossest delusion that ever bewildered mortals.(l - Tear, hear!)--The public,lost all the - benefit of four millions and a half, together with the long annuities and land tax redeemed, and we were more in debt now - than' in hihnary, 1817. In the finance accounts, there was a departMent headed " interest paid On debt; charges of managenmil ) interest of. Ex : TheqUer bills." In 1 817 the Treasury stated the interest of the funded debt at 29 000 000/. a.nd chargeswith the Exchequer '6f up to management d interest bills,grade • 1817 , 1.'31,208,000 • • 1818 - - 31,351,000 • 1819 .30,7.9'2,000 1820 . 31,252,003 u A most important feature, to se favourite word of the Noble Lord's, in this statement, was that no two successive years were within a million of, one another in .the.-charges and interest. What would have been the case, if there had been no. Sinking Fund? Mr. Haworth's accounts from 1800 to. this year were most correct; .but go to the Treasury, and you could not get one account. to balance. . In. January, 1822, there were borrowed 78,000,0001. since 1816, and given to the Commissioners, without occasion for giving. one penny. This year the sum for interest of debt ought to be 30,180,0001. ; instead of which it. would be 31,480,0001. lie was perfectly satisfied that a larger amount of Exchequer bills were out than was avowed, and that the Right Hon. Gentleman had paid. for more than 34,000,0001. in 1821. 'He would ask, too, of .another Right Non: Gentleman when he should be in his place, whether the Crown revenue, and the revenue of woods and .forests, were not invested in the funds? The system of forcing up the funds which waspractised was most absurd and pernicious: • In 1810 and 1817 they had gone into market with 40.000,0001. ; on which they ought to have saved 1,500,0001. If this • abuse were added ,to what he had already stated, he would ask whether, in the speech from the ,Throne, .there ought not to. have been a call upon the House. to place the finances of the country on a so lid and intelligible basis? While he recommended, however, most -strongly to the attention of the House all possible re duction of an extravagant • expenditure, he trusted: never to hear breach of public faith even named within its walls.— He now came to the next count contained in the answer—the next item dwelt upon by the Honourable Mover—the item of reduction. A pamphlet had appeared in print, entitled The State of the Nation." It was attributed to authority. He (Mr. Hume). then held it in his hand ; hut he could not• attribute it in any way to his, Majesty's Ministers, because'from beginning tnend it was an imposition upon the iublic. He had taken the trouble of reading it through ; and from first to, last he did not find one statement or calculation 'but ! what was incarrect—no pOint•dtat was not given• in such a, form as to defy ordinary comprhension to extract• the truth. And to 'what end was sneh intricacy and artful difficulty presented ? • Would any one believe that it helped public credit a lot ? If there were a panic to- Morrow, no set of men were more likely to be frightened out of their a-its than the Bank•Diteetors, - ,aholad proved by their evi dence that they did - not understand their own business ; and, ' in ! eas i e. they did stop, what would happen then ? .Ministers would have to make hank notes etheir owl], or the public cre ditor must remain unsatisfied. But to the question of reduc tion, by which all such . evils might be. avoided.. Let the House, if it meant to do its duty to the nation—let landed pro piitorsomless they meant henceforth to hold their tongues for ever-let them give a proof to their constituezt ts, by their conduct in the present debate, that they seriously did aim at the reduc tion of taxation. !The speech of . the , present year spoke of the. improvement in commerce and Manufactures. So did the speech in the year 1818 set forth the improvement which • had taken place in public credit: But nad that appearance •of-im ! provement been attained? Why, by the conduct of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite,' who drbve up the public funds by main force, by buying in at that time, in a manner which •he had no riglit'to do: After all the promises given, ;loft all the hopes held Out, increase of difficulty from day to day, .of diffi culty which; if not checked, must terminate in ruin. Ile (Mr. Iltime) did not Propose narrowly to investigatenll •the causes to which that difficulty might loc traced. - Ile believed into arise out of a complication , of causes ; -but mainly nut of tit:it exces sive and unwarrantable taxation which took froin the labourer a greater portion of his income than had ever at any former pe riod been exacted. Reduction, ihdeed! What was the boasted reduction which, after all,' they had effected ? They had re duced a htindred and eighty uujbrtunate clerks. Surely, if there wanted- any thing to .prove,,the, inability ofMinisters to the conduct of the country, that proof was affordedl by the pro posal made scarce four an& twenty hours 'back by the I irst Lord of the. 'lCreasury..,(Chcers.)-1-le .alluded, to the offer of assistance to the agricultural interest.-- e ((.heers)-aWas it rea sonable to 'intrust the afThirs of a Nation to persons who could take so childish, so weak, and so womanish, a course?;-(Loud' cheers.)-„Ministeralad-put the present :discusses. upon a font ing with distresses ariaingput of causes totally difF2rent: -•%% hy, thews was a - wait of any thing at present - rather than of\ moniy ,reafly .sheweal,• in-.- 4, cingulaly .;the, Muer ignorance of „ the persons who lad charge of the country Avzitfr • - ' , even of the simple, fact—the state of , they not .know that VS.Ty. . at' ready more,-; money. .than he (could letied 4 Aqi-CP•Aliftlek' was not of cash, but of Credit ? Itifurn.l44iOn,, howzieer, • Upon. Many iniints was less general .andlesa attainable than .night be de . ;ired. He called upon Gentlenien td keep doWn the dfine cessary and•unnatural expenditure of theshantry; but bl3e lieved - there :were very feW people .who kneW -even. what the am p:int ,of, that expenditure was ?-=:(Laughter.)—lt Was not: a very easy fact to get at; but he believed he , could, after much research, supply it. Ministers had :taken •as the golden -n -ean. the, yen 1792. In - 1,792, excluSiVe Of the public-, tight 7 -thete ten millions—the whole expenditure, of the country did :le' exceed seven millions.. How was it that with perfect peace...at home, and the benefit of the Holy Alliance abroad,- the,Stap was now} worked at an .expence of twenty-six Millions. , Was, this the effect of reduction ? And; once again, • where Wereitse Ireductions boasted ? Wag the civil list touched:? Let the House look at its amount, and then, remember that if ,its,no minal amount was increased, the purposes to which it was ap plicable were narrowed. •In answer to the much 'relied' upon list of 'reductions, it was worth while to bring forward the rimy list forthepresent year. Since the great general ,promotion, which Ministers declared to be the last, over and above that batch of promotions, no fewer than six hundred others have beers made, Chit of the six hundred gentlemen. so adVanced,Ahree individuals only belonged to that highly meritorious elaSs...of men, the marines. 'The thing Was apparent enough. s Officers cif Marines were seldom the brothers or. nephews of Membib , of Parliament but: the . amount, of fresh pay arising out-vt)f those . promotions more than devoured all the savings which had been fffected . by reduction. He begged to ask of the Lord Advocate whether a certain Nobleman had not' Made a.wilt, 1avin,, ,, .5001. a year,to, one of his sons until he (the son) should be better provided for by Government ?—(H ear, hear He (Mr. Htime)' knew the-fact, and hoped shortly to Bate copy of the .will.—( Laughter.)—He believed the very lot mina th e, family ,hatl lately been provided for as a commissioner of cus toms. The Hon. Member then commented upon the nee.d! , , , s's ex penses incurred atiNlaita, in the lonian Islands, and in Greece; characterizing the, salary received bySir Alaitland :Is money paid fora service degrading to me character of the English nation. Let the Utilise look at the state of our colon)' at the Cape of Go6d. Hope... All Our • colonies reflght well maintain theinsel its, if inisters could be cured of their disposition to profusion: - And Why should a boy at School be permitted to take 4,0091.. or 50001. a year from the country? or why should the' brother or uncle of a 'Peer receive a large sum for duties .Which he did net perform ? Ile trusted, that the day was not far distant when the heavy expenditure of Scotland would be cut down. Ile kneW 'no branch of public service that deserved 'the 'attention of. the Legislature more than the Law Courts of Scot land, and the enormous Salaries paid to Officers in that Country: 'He contended that the House of Commons would not do its duty until 'it compelled every Gentleman did the duties of his . office by, Deputy, to remove him self from • that office altogether.. He meant to cast n 1 'general imputations; He respected the motives of those Gen tlemeo who appeared in Parliament with a view to serve their country.; but. he had not the same feeling towards those will . came there with a view to serve themselves.---(Hear, and order.) • . - The SPEAKER said, that it was not in order that any Member of the .I,fotise should impute improper motives to an= _ Mr. HUME. said, that he was always happy in being car retted. The lion. Gentleman then sat down by moving the following aniendment:= , " That while ,we return his Majesty our most grateful ac kno wledgm en ta for the various reductions which have been made in the civil and njilitary establishments during the laid year, by whirl some diminution of expense may be effected, yet 'we should ill discharge the duty we owe to his,Majesty,. if :we did not clued his most serious attention to the present condition of his faithful people. " To represent to hiS M . ajesty that the distres . sea, tiriiv'od to exist before a Committee of this llouse,instituted for the espe cial purpose, in the last session . of Parliament, have conside,p• ably increased; and that the owners and occupiers of land throughout great part of the kingdom ~and-witil them the ti ades men and artisan's usually dependent on - them for employment, are labouring-under unexampled difficulties. " To express most respectfully to his Majesty our opinion, that an excessive taxation is a princip a l c ause o f th ose disteesies, an d humbly to entreat that he will be graciously pleased immc diate'q to direct such reductions in every branch of our expen dimre, from the highest to' the lowest department, ac en able us, forthwith, to relieve his Yie.jesty's faithful people from a large portion of that burden of taxation which, hi their pre_ sent impoverished condition, presses so lizavily upon classes." Tbe question having been put, The CH AXC ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose. Before he adverted to.any other part of what.had fallen froM the Hon. 'Wernher for Aberdeen,. f!- should. take the ,liberty of noticing that which particularly related to himself. The Honour able 'Member had been pleased to say,: that some of the- secrets of: hiS .projo-cted 6nanciai Measures were known to certain persons in - the city before they were otherwise.divulged„ Now this, said the Right Hon. Gentleman, I unequiio cally and distinctly deny ;-(hear, hear !)---rind wherever the Bon. •Merimber shall meet. I:vith tiny such malevolent aspersions, he may uuhesitatiagly treat them with the same answer. If it were possible that he could be capable of such prac— tices, he would nodonger be fit: for thesitciation he filled. He bad.taken the liberty to Make this answer to charges alfe,cting his reputation, hitherto unsullied, before he ,went into any thing .--- (near!)—With respect to the transactions with the Bank of England, the lion. Member ought .to know, that by an Act passed in the year :11 transactions with that Body must he laid imm fore Parliament; and, in compliance with that Act, he should in a few days have to ,lay curtain papers before the House. The lion. Gentleman, perhaps had in view something which had pass:od in private conversation between certain Gentle men and the First Lord or the Treasury and hien- Self; which had been misrepresented_ in an ex traordinary way.—(Hear.)—ln his opinion, the best way to meet the distresses of the " country would be by a considerable extension of the cur rency of the kingdom.—(Hear, hear, hear !)-Aie would not however argue .upon that subject, as in a few days lie meant to shew what Ministers had in contemplation .as best suited to the occa sion ; and he was no advocate for making statements by .halves. NM. should he think of wasting the time of the House by folloWing. s thegon. Member into the multifarioui topics he had introduced into the discussion. It was wholly unknown in the practice of Parliament,, for a person to propose to discuis questions involving such an array of figures, without giving a few days notice for con sideration. Had the Hen. Member followed, the ordinary course in this respect, he would haw: entered into argnment with him, and have sheWn wherein his views (littered from those of the Hon. Member. But he had the less hesitation in ab staining from' entering into those questions at that time, since his Views appeared to be opposed to his Resolution. For in proportion aF the revenue was inadequate,to the expenditure, the removing taxation, which was the Hon. Member's panacea, could not be resorted to. : The Hon. Member had enlarged much upon the subject or reduction, but he thought he would have sheWn more candour, if, instead of attacking them in the mass, he had 'lvaited till his Majesty's _Mi nisters had shewnwkat reduction had been made, and . then have Pointed out in what particular they might and ought to have i done more. In a few days all the services adverted to by the Hon. Member would be heTore the House, ,and then would he time proper timeto enter upon the consideration Of them. But in the absence Of them ,to assume misconduct in Minist e rs, was contrary to all rule and practice. , He (Ir. admitted that some reduction.had been effected in . tLe dismissal of some Cieris arid in-