The Sun. — London, England, 1832-06-19 00:00:00

with him, and have Ouch a stain of ingratitude imprinted in his character. Mr. F'ETRE said they were Justices of the Peace, under the Indemnity Act, before the passing of the Bill. Sir R. PEEL understood the Honourable Member for Waterford to have stated that the English Catholics would have been content with being made justices of the peace. He (Sir R. Peel) might not be so eloquent as the Hon. and Learned Member in his taunts, but he hoped they would not prevent the English Members from doing their duty. The Hon. and Learned Member spoke of the ragged, shirtless beings; was that the way he spoke of the 40s. free hold.rs of Ireland ? He hoped that every one of the forty-shilling freeholders entertained more enlarged no tions of civil and religious liberty than the Honourable and Learned Member. Mr. O'CONNELL begged to congratulate the Hon. Member for Ilchester upon the defender who had stepped forward to his aid on this occasion—a defender who had kept him from his rights as long as he could, and who bad at length conceded them to him voluntarily, and of his own accord—that was to say, when he was com pelled to do so by the Irish people. He bad not said that he wished the English Catholics to he nnenuncipited, but what he said was, that the English Catholic Members ho voted the other night against the forty-shilling free holders deserved to be deprived of the benefits of emanci pation. The Right Hon. Member for Tamworth wa• possessed of a singular advantage with regard to this sub• jec, for having been on both sides of the question, he was enabled to speak with great facility on one side or the other. There were politicians who, to keep office, ellen wheeled about, and veered from one side to the other, and y, t who were ready upon occasion to talk of principle. As to the statearznts of the Hon. Member (Mr. Praed) he (Mr. O'Connell) would be prepared on the proper occa sion to meet and to refute them. Sir R. PEEL would not now go into the question whe ther or not he had veered about in politica for profit nr for place—(llear)—but he would put it to the candour and good sense of the House, whether the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had defended himself, by attempting to divert the attention of the House by making an attack on him (Sir R. Peel).—(Hear.) He agreed with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that there were politicians often destitute of principle ‘*(Cries of Hear, hear)—and he would venture to add, that there were politicians who scrupled not to keep a whole country in agitation, and to prevent the return of tranquillity and prosperity there, in order to promote tJselir own private and per sonal ends.—(Hear, leettr,) He would ask the House if there was common sense in the position that Members of Parliament, and those Members Catholic, should, on account of their having given an independent vote, be de prived of their rights, and have a code of disabilities ap plied to them ? That was what the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would do with them, if he had the power to do so. He (Sir R. Peel) had seen in other countries men professing principles of liberality like the Hon. Member, and who, when they got into the possession of power, dis played such tyranny as had never been exhibited by the greatest tyrants of ancient or modern times. He did not doubt the sincerity of the Hon. Member to put his wishes in execution, if he had the power to do so. When the Hon. Member talked about the 40s. freeholders, did he forget that he only proposed by his motion to give the franchise to the 40s. freeholders in fee, who formed a small portion of those 40s. freeholders to whose efforts the Hon. Member attributed the restoration of his civil rights ? If therefore, the Hon. Member for Ilchester could be accused of ingratitude in reference to the 40s. freeholders, with how much more justice would not the charge of ingratitude lie against the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, who had ex cluded the great body of the 4.05, freeholders from the be nefits of his motion? Mr. JERNINGHAM, while he gave the 40s. freehold ers of helm.' credit for the most prodigious effort., he bad voted against their enfranchisement on general prin ciples. After a few words from Mr. RUTHVEN in support of the petitions, they were ordered to he printed. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from the Shef field Political Union, praying that as comprehensive a mea sure of Reform should he given to Ireland as had been given to England. The Right. Hon. Baronet, he observed, bad said, that if he (Mr. O'Connell) were in power, he would exercise that power against the rights of others. That was a matter of prophecy, and the Right Hon. Baronet was a bad prophet ; but the way in which others had exercised power was a matter of history. Colonel DAVIES presented a petition from the Wor cester Political Union, praying that a just and liberal mea sure of Reform should be granted to Ireland. After a few words from Mr. ROBINSON in support of the prayer of the petition, it was ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. Mr. HUNT would take that opportunity to put a ques tion to the Noble Lord the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with regard to the Bank Charter Committee. He wished to know from the Noble Lord, whether it was his inten tion to lay on the table of that House the evidence taken b-fore that Committee? If it was not the intention of the Noble Lord to do so, he (Mr. Hunt) begged to give no tice that he would on the earliest day possible move that the Members of that Committee be exonerated from secrecy. Lord ALTHORP said that, at present, it was not his intention to lay the evidence before the Hnuse, as many facts might come before the Committee which it would not be proper to bring before the House or the public, and he certainly did not think that the Members of the Commit tee should be exonerated from secrecy. Mr. HUME would to-morrow move for a return of the number of forgeries committed against the Bank of England in regard to the funded property in its possession, and would, on that occasion, present a petition from the creditors of Marsh, Fauntleroy, and Co. complaining of the Bank in that instance. Mt. ROBINSON had a question to put to the Noble Lord. A quarantine of 27 days was imposed in the port of Genoa on all British shipping as soon as the cholera broke out in this country, and a similar quarantine was imposed on the French shipping when the cholera reached France. In consequence, however, of the immediate re monstrance' of the French Consul at Genoa on the sub ject, the period of quarantine for French vessels was re duced to seven days. A similar remonstrance from t' e English merchants was forwarded through the English resident at Genoa, but it was unattended to. He wished to know from the Noble Lord why that was the case ? Lord ALTHORP was not aware of the circumstance to which the Hon. Gentleman had alluded, and therefore was unable to give any answer to the inquiry. Sir F. BURDETT was anxious to know from his Noble Friend, Lord Althorp, when he purposed to pro ceed with the Committee of Supply, as on that occasion a question, connected with the supply of water to the me tropolis, would arise, and which had already been before the House. Great inconvenience and expense in the supply of good water had arisen in the metropolis, and would continue until the question to which he had alluded was settled, and it was most desirable that it should be known when it was likely to came forward. Lord ALTHORP was most anxious to press forward the Reform measure, as it was of great importance that the two Bills now before the House should be got rid of, in order that the registration consequent upon them might he proceeded with. Until these Bills were disposed of, he (Lord Althorp) could not positively say the time when the Committee of Supply would be proceeded with. Mr. O'CONNELL begged to ask whether the Govern ment bad abandoned the Irish Jury Bill, which had been some time since disposed of by this House, or was it their intention to press it? Mr. STANLEY said that the Hon. and Learned Gen tleman had asked that question on a former occasion, when be (Mr. Stanley) gave the only reply that he could give, and which he now repeated,—namely, that his Ma jesty's Goveonment had no intention of abandoning the Bill, on the contrary, he (Mr. Stanley) had within the last few days requested his Noble Friend at the head of the Home Department to press forward the Bill in the other House of Parliament. Mr. GOULBURN inquired when it was probable that the Irish estimates would he brought forward. Mr. STANLEY replied, that the estimates would be laid on the table in the course of this day or to-morrow, but it was impossible, at present, 14 him to say when they would be moved in. Mr. LEFROY begged to be permitted, before the order of the day for the further consideration of the Irish Re form Bill was read, to present a petition upon that mea sure. The petition was that of the Protestant Co' oser• vative Society of Ireland, suggesting several amendments to the measure now before the House. Amongst others, the petition suggested that the qualification should he a 301. instead of a 101. qualification, by which means the franchise would he enjoyed by the same cla , s of persons in Ireland as in England. The petitioners concluded by praying the House to pass no measure of Reform that did not contain the amendments proposed. Sir JOHN NEWPORT objected to many of the pro positions contained in the petition, but particularly be deprecated such a suggestion as that which sought to re quire, in a poor country, a franchise of 301., while, in a richer country, the franchise was given to a 10/. house holder. The petition was then ordered to lie on the table. Mr. LEFROY, on moving that the petition be printed, was satisfied merely to remark, that the object of the peti tioners would be m t, if the measure was so modified as to ".~ r t ° he calculated to tend to secure the safety and interests or Ireland. Mr. O'CONNELL thought it was too much to ask even the Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the House to reduce the constituency of Ireland to about 2,000, which weuld be the effect of the adoption o f the sugges tion of the Conservative Society. The petition was then ordered to be printed. IRISH REFORM BILL. The Order of the Day having heen read for the House to resolve itself into the Committee on the Irish Reform Bill, Mr. STANLEY moved that the Speaker do leave the chair. Mr. O'CONNELL rose to move only one instruction to the Committee on the Bill. The only information the Government seemed to possess on the subject was derived from the Boundary Books, containing a mass of pretended information, than which nothing could be more stupid. He confessed that he had little hope of success in his mo tion. This apprehension was one of the melancholy ef fects of the contempt in which the affairs of Ireland seemed to be held in this country. Another effect of it Was this. Before the dissolution of Parliament, the Irish had the benefit given them of the English Register Bill. This was the greatest boon that could be conferred upon them. It bad since been withdrawn. For the change be presumed they were indebted to the Attorney-General for Ireland. But by whomsoever the change had been made, it was a violation of the compact which had been entered into with the Irish na- tion. The first question they had to determine was, if the constituency of Ireland was as extensive as it ought to be. That was the first question considered with reference to the English Reform Bill. In England they had greatly increased the basis of the constituency, and in doing so they had done well. How was the case in Ireland ? That the constituency was miserably limited. Out of six counties, there was not one that had so many as 600 voters. There were six counties in Ireland with no more than 300 voters each : at least if the right of vot ing was to be confined, as this Bill purposed to confine it, to 101. freeholders. In seven other counties the number of such voters in each did not equal 400, and in 500 other counties they did not amount to 500 in each county. The number of county voters was, besides, limited by the cut ting oif from among them those who held property in bo roughs situated in the county. In three of the counties that were more fortunate than the rest, there would he for each of them only between 500 and 600 voters. Eleven counties would have 700 voters, and of these eleven it was remarkable that eight of them were in the province of Ulster. The county of Galway had 1,812 voters, the county of Limerick 1,360, and the county of Clare had 946 voters ; and in all these counties the assistant barrister had done all that his duty enabled him to do to increase the number of voters by encouraging the assertion of claims to the same extent to which assistant barristers in other counties had discouraged them. On the fullest calculatio❑ he could make, there were only 19,000 of the 10/, voters, and that was the constituency which a population over eight mil lions were to nave. The returns showed the population to be eight millions, but there was good reason to believe that they had understated the amount of the population. In cluding rent charges of 2201. and 50/. there would only be 26,000 voters for the whole of Ireland. How did lie prove this ? By reference to the 18 counties in which contests had occurred, and where only 15,421 voters had polled. And these were the advantages which Ireland was to hope for under the Whig Government. Ireland had always suffered more under the Whigs than under the Tories. It was the Whigs who had enacted the Penal Code, and even in the present Administration there seemed the same determination to use the strong hand of domina tion over Ireland, and to gratify the world of prejudices that existed against her. These prejudices were not confined to the lowest ranks alone, but went much higher. He knew it would be said by some Hon. Gentlemen that tne holders of leases originally granted for 60 years were to be entitled to votes. But what were they ? Why, he would tell the Noble Lord opposite, who seemed to consider them as worthy of attention, that there were no such leases to be found in Leinster, Munster, or Connaught. These plans would therefore give but a small constituency for Ireland, and yet this Bill was called the Irish Reform Bill. Whit was the object of the English Reform Bill ? To in crease the constituency. What was the object of this Bill ? To decrease it. Under the present system, a man who bad a freehold of the required amount in the towns was entitled to a vote in the county in respect of his free hold ; while, if he resided in the town, he was at the same time entitled to a vote for the town in respect of his residence. That practice was now to be abolished, and no inhabitants of towns that were counties' of themselves, were to have the double vote.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It might be right enough to refuse the double votes to the inhabitants of towns that were counties of themselves, but why were other towns to be deprived of the advantage? It was said that this was done to assimilate the English and Irish voting. That argument was used when it would decrease the number of the voters, but it was never applied for the opposite purpose. Perhaps it would be well fur his views of a particular question, that the Government should not yield on this point, for particular arguments on that question might he weakened by a different line of conduct. It seemed to him that it was the object of all the parties in that House to exclude the people of Ireland from all real share in the represen tation. He was borne out in that assertion, not only by what the Government had not done, but what they bad done. He complained of the giving two Members to Trinity College, Dublin, where it was impossible that there could be one single Catholic voter, and where the present representation was amply sufficient. What was that but making a religious difference, and leaving the Ca tholic question open, as if the Bill of 1829 bad never passed ? He repeated that the 101. franchise would di minish the number of voters for Ireland; and he wished to observe, that this franchise had been admitted by the Hon. Member for Tamworth to be equal to a 20/. fran chise in England. That statement was true as far as it went, but it might have gone further and been equally true. What was the object of thus restricting the fran chise ? It could only be to pre►ent the Catholics from ob taining too much power; and what was that but a revival of a religious question, which ought to have been buried in oblivion ? Did the Right Hon. Gentleman suppose that this Bill was to he final for Ireland? if he did he was mistaken ; it would not only not he final, but it would not content the country one hour. The Right Gentleman did riot content any one party in the coun try. There was some fatuity in the conduct of the present Ministers with respect to Ireland, which rea son could not account for. The Right Hon. Baronet the Hon. Member for Tamworth, when he was Secretary for Ireland, took up with a party in Ireland, and on the condition of their supporting him in what he did there, he engaged to protect them throughout ; but this Govern ment first refued homes to the Catholics, because they were Catholics; and then took away something from the Protestans, because they were Protestants. So they offended both parties, and were neither one thing nor the other. In this manner they disgusted all parties, while, at the same time, they weakened their own influence, by employing their enemies. It bad been urged, that if they were to make alterations there, the Bill might he lost elsewhere. After what had taken place with respect to the English Bill, he did not think there was much to he apprehended elsewhere. lie contended that there was no good reason why there should not he a 5/. qualification for Ireland. It would only furnish a constituency of 90,000 for seven millions and a half of inhabitants; and it would furnish a respectable constituency. He was told that if the amendments to which be had alluded were in sited upon, the Bill might be lost altogether. Let it be lost. He would prefer an injury to an insult ; and this Bill, as it stood, was a gross insult to Ireland. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman concluded by moving an instruc tion to the Committee to re-establish the 40s. freeholders in Ireland. Llt appeared this was not the instruction the Honour able and Learned Member intended; for Mr. SPEAKER read one to the effect that 5/. qualification% should be established in Ireland.] Mr. STANLEY said—l neither wished, nor had I the right to question the motives of the Learned Member for Kerry. I doubt not that he is anxious to promote the cause of Reform. I doubt not that he is anxious to con ciliate the Protestants of Ireland.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) I doubt not that he is desirous to produce and to perpetuate the most kindly feelings between England Ireland. Yet, if such be his objects, never was there man whose public conduct so utterly be lied his private wishes, or whose daily proceedings were so utterly at variance with the views he had in his mind.—(Hear, and laughter.) Does be mean to tell me that be is not the man who, before be had a seat in this House, and since he has had a seat in this House, and, above all, since the present Administration has come into power, has spared no pains, while he no minally gave his support to the law, to excite passion in the breasts of his countrymen, who, while be affected to preach conciliation, used all endeavours to promote dis unien—(Hear, hear,)—who, while he professed to co operate with the Government, never lost an opportunity of assailing each individual Member of the Administration with abuse, which was disgraceful not to them, hut to him who uttered it, and claims the character of a gentleman.—(Cheers.) [Here the Honourable Member was interrupted.] The Learned Member for Kerry is very sensitive if the smallest obstruction be offered to his speeches. It might be decent in him, therefore, not to interrupt the in so unbecoming a manner. With another man it might be deemed insulting, but he claims the happy privilege of neither givitig or receiving insult.—(Cheers and laughter.) I, Sir, however Warm I may have been in opposition, never attempted to damage private charac ter.—(Hcar, hear, hear.) I should be ashamed to say, —even in the utmost heat of debate,—that any man living amongst a people, cared not if they were starved in this World, and d—d in the world to con St.—(oh, oh.) If I used these words in the heat of debate, I should have taken the earliest opportunity of re tracting and apologising for them. If I had written them, I should have felt myself degraded ; but if I had calmly and deliberately printed them, I should look with no enviable feeling on him who hesitated to hold me up, and brand me as a convicted libeller to the country.— (Cheers.) Observe the language he has continually used; mark how he has borne himself towards me, a stranger in the country.—( Hear.) In all the delicacy of conciliation, he never once called me an Englishman, but always ap plied to me the opprobrious epishet, as he meant it, and his audience understood it—of a Sixon.—(Hear,; hear, hear.) This is a specimen of the Learned Gentleman's conciliation. The Right Honourable Member then pro ceeded to observe, that the Lea, ned Member's speech was a mere piece of vituperative declamation, and seemed to have been made only for the purpose of delaying the Corn tnittee, and producing irritation in Ireland. This might suit his views ; his objects might be not national but per sonal objects.—(Cheers.) He might desire to retain the opportunity of makine violent speeches to produce dis inclination to the Bill in Ireland, so that the people might be taught to receive as an insult that which they would have otherwise hailed as a benefit. Even the Honourable and Learned Member himself had once declared it to he a magnificent measure— (Hear, hear, hear, and laughter)—as being the work of the friends of Ireland.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Some detail 4, it was true, might require to be corrected, but still the benefit seas to be—great rotten boroughs were to be destroyed, and so were those close corporations which the H *. and Learned Member now was anxious to defend.— (Hear, hear.) In reply to the Hon. Member, he stated that whatever might be the politics of the Attorney-Gene ral for Ireland, they were not extreme, and that no man could have conducted himself with more perfect impar tiality in his office, or done better service to the present Government. The Attorney-General had nothing to do with the change in the system of registration. That change had been suggested to him by several Irish Mem bers, and amongst the first by Sir Henry Parnell. As to the other alterations in the Bill, that of the period of the leasehold from twenty years to fourteen bad been made at the suggestion of Irish Members, and the omission of the 501. rent qualification had been made at the solicitation of the Hon. and Learned Member himself, who waited on his Noble Friend, as the organ of certain Irish Members. The Hon. and Learned Member had argued very power fully in favour of the omission, and he (Mr. S.) was con vinced; but hardly had this been effected, when the Ho nourable and Learned Member turned round—complained of it as an,,act of injustice, and actually had entered his name for an amendment to restore the 501. rent qua lification. He was ready to be convinced by reasoning, but he could not blindly follow the Hon. and Learned r Member in all his shifts and turns and doubles. The Learned Member had published a number of letters to the Reformers of Great Britain, arraigning the Irish Bill as unjust; he would be ready to answer all his charges at the fitting time. As to the system of registration in Ire land, he admitted it was not perfect, but much had been done, and more in Committee would be done to improve it, Let it then have a fair trial. Let the English system, which was only an experiment, and which was considered imitable to Ireland, also have a trial—and then be should have no objection that that system which was found to work best should be adopted for both countries.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman then contended that the Learned Gentleman, in his calculations of the average number of voters in each county, had argued on a fallacy which a child might detect ; he had argued as if the whole constituency in each county had been polled out. He must maintain, that there would be a great increase in the constituency of the counties of towns, and in the boroughs, and remarked, that it was rather extraordinary that the Learned Gentleman should have adopted such a course of proceeding with respect to the 101. leaseholder for sixty years, when it appeared that this qualification would increase the number of Catholic voters in Armagh and Down. The Learned Gentleman had ap plauded the Tories for their consistency in ruling Ireland by keeping down one party with the assistance of the other, while be upbraided the Government for not attach ing itself to either party to put down the other. The Government, however, neither would be led to oppress the Catholics, as of old, nor would they place themselves, bound hand and foot into the hands of the Learned Gen tleman as he desired. As to the Learned Gentleman's first motion, he would content himself with opposing it. The Learned Gentleman himself attached so little importance to it, that he ended by a wrong motion, but one which suited his speech quite as well as that which he in tended.—(Hear, hear.) He could not, he said, avoid contrasting the conduct of the Scotch Members with that of the Learned Gentleman. If injustice had been done anywhere, it was to Scotland ; but what did the Scotch Members do ? They said they were entitled to more, but still they accepted the Bill arid acknowledged it was a great benefit. But the Learned Member said, you have given us something, but you have not given us all that we went ; and until you do, there shall be no peace in Ireland—l will thwart you in your measure, and throw every impedi ment in your way.—(Cheers.) This might be in accor dance with the Learned Member's views. He wished to dissolve the Union, but their views were different, and he did not mean to use language which could have the slightest tendency to set at variance the two parts of the empire. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposed the motion. Mr. HUME contended that the Learned Member for Kerry had nothing to do but abuse the Government and agitate, and use physical force as far as it was possible.— (Hear, and laughter.) The period had come when, all legal means having been tried, it required the people to unite, and by physical power to overawe improper resis tance.—(Oh ! and laughter.) Was it not to the appre hension of physical force the Right Honourable Baronet had yielded his ()Pinions on the Catholic Question ? Was it not by agitation that question was carried ? (Hear, hear.) No great rights were ever yet obtained, except by the country manifesting its discontent, and showing its force.—( Hear, hear.) He maintained that Ireland was not sufficiently represented, nor was the constituency large enough, in proportion to its popula tion. He reminded the Noble Lord that the Irish 'Mem bers had supported him in the English Reform Bill, and called upon him to do Ireland justice. He contended that all the recent measures of Government, and especially this Reform Bill, had for object the preservation of the over grown church establishment in Ireland ; and it seemed little less than an insult to Scotland to refuse a Member to her five Universities, and to give one to the College of Dublin. This fact alone was enough to show him that party was to be supported, instead of es'ablishing a just equality of civil rights. Many of the counties of Ireland would be placed by this Bill on the old Scotch scale, with less then 300 electors each. The Honourable 'tlemher for Kerry had often been called an agitator, but those were the true agitators of Ireland who excited the people by measures of injustice at the moment when they pretended to give them a degree of Reform equal to that of England. Let the Reform in Ireland be equal to that given in Eng land ; no man would complain, and agitation would tie at an end. He (Mr. Hume) could not concur in the eulogium passed upon the present Attorney- General for Ireland, and expressed his strong disappi o bation of the course Ministers were pursuing of promoting their political enemies, in hopes that they would become their friends. What he re quired was, that England, Scotland, and Ireland, should tie placed on the same footing as regarded Reform, in order that the popular voice might be plainly and fairly heard. Sir R. PEEL referred to what the Hon. Member for Middlesex bad said on the subject of physical force, and said, that by his gesticulation at the time, he bad meant not to express his surprise (for such doctrines were not at all new from the Hon. Member), but his indignation at the sort of tyranny to which he would subject the Govern ment of the country. He (Sir R. Peel) insisted that it was not irregular in the House to refer to speeches, letters, or declarations out of it, although it might suit the Hon. Member for Middlesex, who sometimes deliverd oily speeches of conciliation in his place, to be called to account for his exciting harangues on the busting& at Brentforti. The Hon. Member, however, this night bad had the auda city to talk of controlling the deliberations of Parliament by physical force.—(Cheers). If such doctrines were to be maintained, there must be an end of all Government; and for one, be (Sir R. Peel) would .ay, that he had never yielded to physical force, and that to the last be would resist its application. The appeal was now to be to physical force in favour of a Sh ncle as opposed to a 10/. f ranc hi se; b ut even if th e pointa by e, e conceded, might not the same f orc i b l e argume nt be r u s e d the friends of the 21. fran c hi se , or b y t h e a d voc ates i s of a right of voting without any qualification ? When be conceded the Roman Catholic Relief Bill, he had not yielded to physical force ; and when the Hun. Gentleman went on to asaert that the present Ministers had done the same with regard to the Reform Bill, be (Sir R. Peel) was astonished that the Hon. Member could pronounce such libel upon his friends and supporters out of doors, who all gloried in what they called a bloodless revolution, effected only by the force of reason and justice.—(Hear, hear.) To subject the House on all occasions to the threat of phy sical force, was nothing more nor less than the vilest and most degrading tyranny, and it would be better at once to constitute a mob-committee to sit (he would not say to de liberate) from day to day, and to issue its mandates to he executed by the Ministers of the day. For one, be never would consent to sit in this Howe, and listen patiently to doctrines destructive not only of good government, but of every species of subordination. He advised those who talked of physical force, to look to other countries, in order that they might see its triumphs, and the wonders it had accomplished for personal freedom and the liberty of the Press. The physical force the lion. Member for Mid dlesex wished to gee called into action, was similar to that which this day (the 18th June) the anniversary of the glories of Waterloo, had insulted the Duke of Wellington, the achiever of those glories, and the deliverer of Eu rope.--(Much cheering.) Mr. HUME obtained are-hearing with difficulty; he only wished to explain, that the Right Hon. Baronet had en tirely mistaken him : be had contended only that the people bad never obtained any concession of their rights but from the dread of physical force, not from its applica tion. As to audacity, he had audacity enough—(Much laughter and cheering, with cries of " Spoke, spoke")—to be able to repeat and justify in the House any expression he had made use of out of it. He had objected to private quarrels and disputes between Members being made the subject of public discussion in Parliament. Sir J. NEWPORT hoped that every facility would in future be given to the registration of freeholders in Ire land. In his view, the great merit of the Bill before the House was, that it destroyed nomination boroughs, and had it contained no other provision, he should have gladly embraced it; but it seemed to him that the communica tion of the right of voting on account of a 101. ch ittle inte rest, was of itself a considerable gain. He earnestly hoped that the Bill would not be procrastinated by useless dis cussions until its effects in Ireland were materially injured. If it did not go the whole length that he wished, it went a considerable way on the right road. He had now passed half a century in the public service—thirty years of it in tl.e United Parliament—and it rejoiced him to think that he bad never done an act, or given a vote, that did not show that he had the interests of Ireland at heart.— (Cheers.) His retirement from public life would now be speedy, and, as his last declaration, he might, perhaps, he allowed to say, that now, as on every other occasion, he had the peace and tranquillity of his country only in view. —(Much cheering.) Mr. CRAMPTON read to tile. House part of the speech delivered by Mr. O'Connell, on the 24th of March, 1831. in which he had stated his entire approbation of the 101. franchise ; adding, that it ought not to be lower. He wished to know from the Hon. Member for Kerry, whe ther on that occasion he had been misreported ? Mr. O'CONNELL—Quite entirely. Mr. CRAMPTON—AII he could reply, then, was, that the Hon. Member had been misreported, not only in every newspaper of the day, but in the recollection of all the Members who were present and heard the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.—(Cheers.) He hoped the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would explain why be had so com pletely changed his opinions—why he then applauded the 101. franchise, and now proposed that it should be reduced to 51.? Let the Hon. and Learned Gentleman answer him self, and reconcile " the glorious inconsistency" (as he, per haps, might call it) if he could. The Hon. Member (Mr. Crampton) then proceeded to argue that what had been ad vanced by Mr. O'Connell, and supported by Mr. Hume, was founded merely upon a fallacy—a confusion between the actual number of freeholders and the small number regis tered in the different counties in Ireland. He (Mr. Crampton) contended that it had of late years been the policy of landlords in Ireland not to allow freeholders on their estates to register; and the effect had been, that at the present moment not more than perhaps one-tenth of the freeholders were registered. Notwithstanding all that had been said of the greater favour shown to Scotland, the fact was, that, after the passing of the two Reform Bills, Scotland would have, in proportion to her wealth and population, a much less extensive constituency than Ireland. - Mr. O'CONNELL said, that no one could be more perfectly a false witness against him, than the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had been.—(Loud cries of " Order," and " Hear.") He was ready to declare upon oath, that he had never used the words attributed to him. Had he done so, he would have retracted his own retrastation. He would be able to show from the letters which he had written to Ireland, and which had been published, that the charge was brought against him, in an entire aban donment of truth.—(Order, order.) The SPEAKER requested the lion. Member to call to mind the words which had just now escaped him. Mr. O'CONNELL—Is not falsity a Parliamentary term..--( Laugh ter. ) The SPEAKER said, that nothing was Parliamentary which gave personal offence to any Member of that House.—( Hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL would only say, then, that the Hon. and Learned Solicitor-General for Ireland had made a mistake. The SPEAKER trusted that the Hon. and Leared Gen tleman would see the necessity of making a more satisfac tory explanation of the language which he had used. Mr. O'CONNELL said that the reporters, to whose accounts of his speech the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Crampton) had referred, had through mistake re presented him to speak of 101. freeholders, when, in fact, he was speaking of the 101. chattel franchise.—(Hear, hear, and Oh, oh.) Mr. CRAMPTON (amidst loud cries of " Hear, hear") said that the Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry had charged him with saying that which was false. Mr. O'CONNELL—I did not say Idse ; I said that it was not true.—(A laugh, and cries of " Oh, oh.") Mr. CRAMPTON would now say no more than that he bad quoted the words of the Hon. and Learned Member from the published records of that House ; and that the Hon. and Learned Member stood iu a position which would prevent him (Mr. Crampton)from applying to him for a satisfactory explanation of his language, in the man ner in which applications were generally made by gentle men to whom language so offensive had been addressed.— (Hear, hear.) He wished not to be mistaken. He did not mean to say, that if the Hon. and Learned Member had not placed himself in the position to which he had alluded, he would have noticed the words applied to him, any further than to protest against the violation of the order of Parliament, and the common usages of society, by the use of ungentlemanly language.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. 0 CONNELL was understood to say that he had no intention to give personal offence by anything which he had said. An Hox. MEMBER said, that the statements which had been made by the Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry respecting tke number of the freeholders in one county of Ireland was inaccurate. A much greater number than that stated by the Hon. Member had polled at the last election. Mr. O'CONNELL had taken the numbers which he stated from returns which lay upon the tahle of the House. Mr. LEADER contended that the 10/. franchise was too high, and that a .51. qualification would be sufficiently high to satisfy even those most opposed to an extensive constituency.—(Hear, hear.) The Irish Reform Bill was in every respect insufficient, and far below what the people of Ireland had a right to expect at the hands of the Minis try, which had received from that people, and from their representatives in Parliament, an honest, laborious, and efficient support in carrying that measure of Reform which had given the highest satisfaction to the people of England. It was ungrateful and impolitic to disappoint the hopes and to resist the just claims of the Irish nation.—(Hear.) Mr. HUNT said thst lie had been horded and ridiculed in that House for declaring the Reform Bills for England, Scotland, and Ireland, would fall short of giving satisfac tion to the people. But now the very persons who had taxed him with inconsistency came forward denouncing the Irish Bill as a delusion.—(Hear.) Irithe Hon. auil Learned Member for Kerry chose to divide the House upon the question of the 40s. franchise, he (Mr. , Hunt) would again divide with him ; and therefore it would be very in. consistent if he, an advocate for Universal Suffrage, should not support the proposed amendment. The House then divided— For the Amendment 44 Against it 177 Majority for Ministers -133 On the readmission of strangers, the House was in Com mittee, and Mr. O'CONNELL was addressing the Chairman, and was speaking of his intention to take the sense of the House upon the 10/. chattel franchises. He contended that the number of 10/. voters, holding for a term of 60 years, would not amount to 300 persons—he doubted if they would even amount to as many as 150 ; he was sure they would never be 1,000. The question having been put, Mr. D. BROWNE suggested to substitute a twelve years' holding for one of sixty years. He certainly was far from wishing to recur to the old system of the forty shilling freeholds, but this be .thought would not prove even an approach to it—a system which in his opinion had operated most injuriously, and put an end to every thing like independence. For.example, t he county with which he wag connected had, at one time, 25,000 voters —and then font individuals could return whomsoever they pleased, but now not one hundred, if they combined could successfully oppose the general feeling of the county, although now they had but 900.—(Hear, bear.) On this subject he entertained a strong opinion, and should certainly submit a motion respecting it at a future op portunity._ _ . Mr. MULLINS then, on making the motion of which he had given notice, addressed a few observations to the Committee, which were not beard in the gallery. His motion was to the effect, that holders of terms for nineteen years, of the value of 20/., should be entitled to vote for counties. Mr. STANLEY objected to the motion, that it would lead to fraud and collusion. lie thought the Irish Bill WAS already more liberal to leaseholders thin the English Bill, and therefore he could not assent to the motion. ' Some conversation here took place between Mr. Ilumx, Mr. SrANLEr, and Mr. O'CONNELL, relative to the number of freeholders in Ireland, correcting a mistake which had occurred in a previous part of the evening. Mr. HUME asked for explanation. Mr. STANLEY said he could not tell what number of voters there would be in the counties after the Bill had passed. Mr. O'CONNELL said, that, allowing every possible ad vantage to his opponents. there would not he 30,000 voters in all the counties of Ireland. With respect to the pre sent motion he wished it had not been made in its present shape. Mr. SHEIL said if the Right Hon. Gentleman could not tell what number of leaseholders there would be in counties, why did he take in 201. profit instead of 10/. ? He supposed that the Right Hon. Gentleman would say, that it would give a certain number of constituency— when the Right Hon. Gentleman did not know. Colonel CONNOLLY said that the reason why the constituency was so small was the agitation of the Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry. That made the land lords limit the constituency, and made them averse from granting leases. The Hon. and Learned Member had introduced an intestine war between landlords and tenants, and had led to a limitation of the constituency. Mr. O'CONNELL said, those who went about preach. ing sermons, filled with calumny, were the causes of dis sension in Ireland, and all his labours to prevent it were almost unavailing.—(A laugh.) The conspiracy among the landlords, described by the Hon. and Gallant Officer, to limit the constituency, ought to make the House lower the qualification. Mr. RUTHVEN thought the persons to whom the elective franchise was proposed to be given by the Hon. Mover, were more independent than the 50/. tenants at will in England, and had superior clams to the franchise. He therefore supported the motion. Mr. MULLINS, in reply, said that it was impossible the opponents of the motion could be aware of the real amount of the qualification required for Ireland. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the amendment Against it l6l Majority Lord ALTHORP proposed that the Chairman should report progress, and ask leave to sit again on Monday next. Mr. GRATTAN protested against the delay of the Irish Bill. Lord ALTHORP said the delay was not his fault ; if every discussion were to stop the progress of the Bill, he could not postpone those Bills which were to perfect the machinery for England and Scotland. The House then resumed, the Chairman reported pro. greys, and obtained leave to sit again on Monday next. THE JURIES (INDIA) BILL. Mr. C. GRANT moved the third reading of this Bill. After sonic conversation, the Bill was read a third time and passed. SCOTCH REFORM BILL. The report on this Bill was received ; the Bill was re committed for some verbal amendments ; and the House having resumed, the report of the Committee was received, and ordered to ite taken into further consideration on Fri day next. CUSTOMS' DUTIES. Mr. P. THOMSON'S resolutions respecting the Customs' Duties were agreed to. The Bill to be brought in ac cordingly. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and, at a Quarter-past Two o'clock this morning, the House adjourned. LIST OF THE MINORITY OF FORTY-FOUR WHO VOTED FOR MR. O'CONNELL'S MOTION; For an Instruction of the Committee to extend the Elective Franchise to every Person seised of a Freehold Estate, and occupying the same, of the clear yearly value of 51. at the least, over and above all Charges, except only Public Taxes. Bainbridge, E. T.—Taunton Lambert, J. S.—Galway Co. Blackney, W.—Co. of Carlow M'Namara, W. N.—Clare Co. Bodkin, J. J.—Galway Musgrave,Sir R.—Waterford Co. Burke, Sir J.—Galway Co. Mullins, F. W.—Co. of Kerry Bulwer, H. L.—Coventry O'Connor Don—Roscom. Co. Callaghan, D.—Cork, City of O'Farrell, R. M.—Co. of Kildare Chapman, M.—Westmeath Co. Payne, Sir P.—Bedfordshire Davies, Colonel—Worcester Phillips, C. SL—Leicestershire Doyle, Sir J. M.—Carlow Co. Power, R.—Waterford County Ellis, \V.—Leicester Ruthven, E. S.—Downpatrick Fitzgibbon, R.—Limerick Co. Shell, R. L.—Co. of Louth French, A.—Roscommon Co. Tomes, J.—Warwick Godson, Richard—St. Albans Vincent, Sir F.—St. Alban's Gisborne, 'F.—Stafford Wallace, T.—Dropeda Grattan, J.—Co. of Wicklow Walker, C. A.—NNexford Grattan, H.—Meath Co. Williams, W.—Monmouthshire Harvey, D. W.—Colchester White, Col H.—Dublin Co. Howard, P. H.—Carlisle Hume, Joseph—Middlesex Hunt, Henry—Preston Hughes, Colonel—Grantham Jcphson, C. 1). O.—Mallow King, E. B.—Warwick Lambert, H.—Wexford Co. For the Instruction Against it Majority Wilks, - J.—Boston Wood, Alderman—London Wyse, I'., jun.—Tipi,erary Co. TELLEVI. O'Connell, D.—Co. of Kerry Leader, N. P.—Kilkenny Co. 44 177 —133 LIST OF THE MINORITY ON MR. MULLINS'S MOTION, For the Enfranchisement of 301. Rent.payers, on lease of 19 years from commencement. Bodkin, J. J. Leader, N. P. IRuthven, E. S. Blackney, W. M‘Narnara, W. N. Doyle, Sir J. M. Musgrave, Sir R. Hume, Joseph O'Connell, D. TELLER. F. HAMBURG PAPERS. HANOVER, JUNE 9.—ln the sitting of the Second Chamber, on the 6th, the answer to the speech from the Throne was discussed. Dr. Christiani having gone through it article by article, and made many remarks on it, he said, mention ought to be made in it of the long-desired completion of the organization of the German Confederation,—a confederation from which the people had hitherto derived so little con solation and hope. He would not dilate on the sub ject, but mention must be made of the unfulfilled pro mises of article 13 and 19 of the Act of the Con federation. Dr. Lunzel said, the address, in answer to the speech, was of great importance. He touched upon the points which he would desire to see mentioned in the address,—the situation of the country, and its relations with the German Confederation, the admi nistration of justice, which is very defective, the composition of which requires to be improved, the First Chamber being purely a Chamber of Nobles, the finances of which are not in a thriving condi tion, owing partly to political events and to dis tresses and misfortunes sent by Providence ; he would have the great distress of the country men tioned, which is far more severe than is supposed in the capital ; he would have the public admitted to the galleries, which he regretted to see empty. Yet the Government, as well as the Diet, needed the support of public opinion. The freedom of the press was universally wished for, and he should be happy to see an allusion made to it. The abolition of feudal tenures was another thing most desirable and necessary. Other members spoke to the same effect, and some wished some words to be inserted in favour of the state prisoners at Celle. The notification has been going on for eighteen months (said Professor Saalfel), and it could not be foreseen when it was likely to end. He thought the circumstance of palliation should be considered. The offences in question were political, and expe rience showed that the results decided on right and wrong. Only infatuation could deny that those men gave the first impulse to the improvements which were under discussion. a t Gottingen being them might onlyht be Dr. Struve thought it bet ter for the p risoners no t to mention them. Dr. Christiani was o f the same o p inion ; they would have other oppor tunities. But he th ought treatmentmentioned e ntionedin ofthe address, Hanover the Poles country in Germany where the ri g hts of hospitality had been violated. Privy Councillor Rose a g reed in many points in the views of th e p recedin g s p eakers ; on others he wa s not sufficiently informed . With respect to th e Poles at Gotting en, this was th e case with them— their sta y had been momentary, and requisitions, such ,as had been made in this case, were always co mplied with. For his part, he respected misfor tune, and felt as a man, as deeply as the honourable speaker. The Government had to fulfil its oblige' tions without such considerations. Those individual 6 luid had permission only to make a temporary stay' It was expressly stated to them, that :it might be more advisable for them if they did not remain in the country. The requisitions were accompaisie d with a declaration that crimes had been committed, that effects had been purloined from the lie owners; such requisitions were always attended to, With respect to the state prisoner from Gottingen, justice had been allowed to take its course. He deeply regretted the cause; he pitied the men w ll° by their errors had brought such misfortunes on themselves; but he could never agree that political causes were not crimes : he thought that the persoo r in question, far from having given the first impuls e as asserted, had done mischief, and that but for theta the progress of improvement would be now much greater. Those who refused to remove the King troops into Gottingen had caused a most deplorabl e expenditure of money, which might have been better employed. The subject, he thought, could not be mentioned in the address, but petitions had been pre rented which would afford an opportunity to ente upon it. As for the German Confederation, he wa fully sensible that the commercial relations betweel the several states had become most injurious in 0 1 Germany ; and he sincerely wished to contribute rc, every possible alleviation. The political relations e the several states was a more difficult subject. Tl' e Government would do its utmost to relieve O f country. Tha resolution of the King was fixed; but his Majesty wished, that whatever was done , should be done adequately and permanently. M. K. Bruesning had not studied politics or diplo' maey ; but somnnon sense, he thought, would per' ceive that duties implied rights. If the Confederatio a could impose duties, it must also give rights. Th e obligation to furnish a contingent must g i ve the several states a right to call on the Confederation to open to them, as_ far as lay in its power, t he settles of profit which would enable them to bea t the burdens imposed. In the sitting of the 7th, the Second Chambr i f decided, by a great majority, that the public shed' be admitted to hear the debates, with certain rt strictions already agreed upon, and that the apr, bation of his Majesty should be applied for. It vra,; proposed, that mean time short-hand writers shor be admitted to report the debates, that they mig ht be sooner and more extensively made public. VIENNA, JUNE 6.—The Archduchess Mar! Louisa arrived at Trieste in the steam-boat, fro') Venice, on the 29th of May, to visit the Empera f l her father. EXCHANGES ON LONDON. HAMBURG, JUNE 15.-13. 14% ;_ two months, 13 13. STOCKHOLM, JUNE B.—Ninety days, 14. 7. BERLIN, JUNE 12.—Three months, 6. 28%.—Hamburg li pers, June 13. c o!' 1 HAMBURG, JUNE 15. BORSEN-HALLE, Ilk PAST Two o'cLocx.—The arrivals of w h ea t dur , the week have not been great. Prices continue r ' maintain themselves, owin g t o th e con ti nue d d e als for exportation. During the fir , t eight days of June, 237 car of corn passed through the Sound, of which 25 0 4 bound fur British, and 97 for Dutch, ports. Weight. Rix-d O A Wheat, Anhalt, white ll5 to 122 127 to JA red 117 to 127 125 to Ili ---- Marks l2O to 125 130 to ID Mccklenburgh .1111 to 124 125 to 1'", -- Holstein, red 118 to 125 123 to Iv During the week 559 lasts of wheat have be ° imported. 701 exported, and there remains stock ° hand 1,400 lasts. Very little business is doing in our Stock-mar° Discount, 3 per cent. Anglo-Danish Loan, 3 per cent. Anglo-Russian Loan 954 Russian Inscription, 5 per cent., 1831 Bs3i I'olish Bonds 101,4 Austrian Bank Shares 1141 Austrian Metalliques New Austrian 4 per cent. 76 —Hamburg Reporter. THE NEW SCALE OF DUTIES. A meeting of the merchants, brokers, and ell; interested in the trades which will be affected t the proposed alteration of the Vice-President at Board of Trade in the duties on various articleirt ti commerce, was held yesterday ev e ni ng " at th e C ° ,' .. mercial Sale-rooms, Mincing-lane for the p ur pot 4 , taking into consideration the best measures t°: ‘ adopted to obtain an alteration i n many o f the if posts. Mr. L. Finlayson in the chair. Mr. T. SMITH said he had call e d th e pre 66 meeting at the suggestion of many merchants others who would be seriously injured by the °, scale of duties. He contended that the new pio ll e ; duty was not founded ott reason. The Governls o appeared not to desire to assist the British plo i l o , tions. In the article of Alkinet Root, the u s was to be reduced from 41. 13s. 4d. to 45 , ,1 cwt. But unless merchants and others who ", paid duty on this article had a drawback, grea t jury would be inflicted. Annatto was 01 reduced from 11. Bs. to 4s. p er cw t.; . f would throw many out of work, without 1, corresponding advantage to the public. i ii i , was to be reduced from 2s. to 6d. per lb.; ce he felt sure no one would take an extra dose in ~,i sequence.—(Laughter.) The reduction of the ' o ' on foreign hemp from 4s. Bd. to id. per cwt., ol° o! prove very beneficial to the shipping interest , to the home trade; but he thought there , 4 changes contemplated in the scale, which po t foreign produce in a more favourable situation t,, , similar articles, the growth of our colonies. Ife;, eluded by moving a resolution, to the effect gh4 Committee be appointed to wait on the Pre' of the Beard of Trade, to point out the mad fects in the proposition now before the House. Mr. WILKINSON thought the present was e t i time when the measures of Ministers should n P • t eded There could be no doubt b ut t h at his d i jesty's Government would make returns of duti e t the stocks of those articles on hand, th e impost, ' which had been so greatly decreased. Thee cles were not, however, of great consumption' .d' alkinet root not mo re th an 16,7931. h a d been pay' duty in the last twelv e mont h s . Al mon d s we' be reduced from 11. 11s. Bd. to 4s. per cent. ; ~ ,i on looking at the Custo m -h ouse returns , only pi cwt. had been paid duty on this year. Ile c ‘ iii: dered they would now waste their s t ren gth s ''s ought to be reserved till the measures of al lo t formed Parliament were seen. He, therefore, 5 move, that the meeting be adjourned sine die. i j Mr. FOWKE considered that Ministers sb oll c r . informed how little the community would be t o fired by the proposed reductions. Indirect , d i taken off only benefited the dealers i n a rticle . / reduced. The reduction of the hemp &a good, as it would benefit th e s hi pp i ng in i i There were many parties wh o h a d paid high "" on stocks on hand, who ought to he re li e ved., l 4 the other band, many spec u l ators i n cajeput 01/ cholera drugs, who bought at high prices six 01 , 4 ",' since, would be ben e fi te d , thouh these s vi , we re now " drug s " i n cons equence of the d e ' . of the cholera. I' Mr. NORTIICOTE supported the amendtner i ,. t ' t id,t l druggists w ere pr i ncipally affected by the red ti " ho tti` " and they k new and suggested many of the 4"0 some time b ac k. A GENTLE MAN sa id, he knew one in t h e who w ou ld lose 1,0001. by the reduction. fl a t l The am en d ment was put an d negat i ve d, s" original motion was carried. Mr. Sastrn then moved a resolution to th e e 4 that th e meet i ng cons id ere d t h at th e trading se P r munity of th e p or t o f • L on d on would be bc ol by the formation of a Committee of T r ade , Chamber of Commerce. the sorb; Mr. WILKINSON cordially seconded -e tP; Manchester, Liverpool, snd other places, ini v „ l', Chamber of Commerce. If a merchant, u . : 1 , 1 1"; merest error, and not with intent to igi King, had his goods seized, he had to nle g i l a itl', the Board—then, perhaps, the Treasury, ° SS° the mistake. At last an order was sent 0 10€ 1 , deliver the goods, on satisfying the seizinfi str oy o . the goods in the meantime being, perhaps, j e 1 ttY or the market lost.—(Hear, hear.) t he chants had experienced this evil, and its