The Sun. — London, England, 1804-02-14 00:00:00

170:kmen, in the course of which the latter had been guilty of the greatest eicesses. This Jaw might be extended to the Cotton Trade with much less difficulty, as in the Silk Trade there were above rOOO articles to become the obk - _ , a of the wages of Workmen, whist in the Cotton Trade there were not above too. He thought the present subjea was one of considerable importance, and that the con. sideration of it ought not to be delayed. A Committee was then appointed in conformity with the CHANCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER'S Mr. SECRETARY Yoaxe biought up a Copy of the Circular Letters from the Secretary of State to the Lord Lieutenants of Counties respeding the Vclan_ leers, which were ordered to be printed. Mr. SECRETARY YORKE moved to postpmne the second reading of the Volunteer Bill from Wednes day to Friday next.—Agreed to. Mr. CORRY then gave notice that as Wednesday was an open day, he should on that day move for the appointment of a Committee to consider of certain Ads relative to the Revenues of Ireland. BANK OF IRELAND. Mr. CORRY moved the Order of the Day for going into a Committee on the Irish Bank Restric tion Bin. Lsrd A. HAMILTON rose and entered into a variety of observations upon the State of the Cir culation in Ireland. He said it had been his incen. Lion to have proposed a-Clause to compel the Bank of Ireland to pay their own Notes in Bank 'of Eng.. land Notes, but upon further consideration, he should not at present propose that Clause. The depreciation of Paper in Ireiand, and the unfavour able state of Exchange with regard to that Country, lie attributed to the. great i., , sue of Paper m the Bank of Iteknd and from the private Bankers. He 'Stated that the amount of the Paper issued by the Bank of Ireland since the Restriction was near four times greater than it was before, whereas the issue of Paper by the Bank of England had not been in any thing near so large a proportion. This was a subjea. of very great importance,. and called very seriously •for the attention of Parliament to remedy the evit, either by colnoelling the Bank of Ireland to pay in specie, or Ey adopting some other plan which would prevent such an immense circulation of Paper. -He stated, that the inundation of Paper in Ireland-had . not only injured its exchange with ether Countries, but there was aCtually a difference DI no less than ten per cent. in the exchange between Dublin ..nd Belfast. Ile did not, however, mean at present to .oppose this but he wished the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite to him (Mr. Cott- ItY) would tell him (not at what time) but under what circumstances he would propose that the Bank of Ireland sh :old resume its payments ? Hit Lord ship mule several other observations upon the sub jea, which we were, unfortunately, unable to hear. Mr. CORRY complimented the Noble Lord for the ,candour he had shewn upon this occasion, and fur the attention which he, had bestowed upon the subje6.l. This was undoubtedly a question of great importance, and he felt, as • he was sure every man in Ireland would feel, great satisfaltion that their affairs were taken up by such characters as the NOble Lord.. Indeed it was always a source of real pleasure to him when he saw that the affairs of 1ce 1....0 .n...rretkok u ,,,,f Members from every part of the United Kingdom. He would with the greatest satisfaflion enter minutely into the various topics which had been already touched upon, if the Noble Lord had not candidly declared that it was mat his intention to persist in the Motion of which he had given notice. Ile was, therefore, at present, precluded from enlarging upon these subjeas, be cause it would be unnecessarily taking up the time 'of the House upon questi ons respeaing which no .decision could take place. He hoped, howeVer, he should be permitted to state generally, that in many ,of the points advanced by the Noble Lord, he en tirety concurred with him. .That the state of the circulation of Ireland was a subject to be deplored Ire was ready to admit, it was one to which he had called the attention of the House in the course pf last Session, and he should feel the most sin_ cere satislad,ion if any remedy could be applied to this evil... .He begged leave, however, to ob serve, that ine Bank of Ireland, the restriaion of whose cash payments was the -objea of this Bill, waa not entirely responsible for the state of the cir culation in that Country. That Ireland was inun dated with Paper was.a truth that could. not for a moment be disputed; but it should be recollected, that the Bank of Ireland had not the same controul over the circulation of Paper in Ireland, that the Bank of England had over the raper Circulation of ibis Country—it had not even the controul over the Paper Circulation of the Metropolis. It should also be recolleaed, before the blame was thus entirely attributed to the Bank of Ireland, that there 'were many-causes which led to the increase of their Paper. In the year the sestriaion was imposed, their Capi tal was increased Italia million—the specie of the Lountry had in a very great degree disappeared— the ,private Bankers had been prohibited from issuing Notes under five guineas—,the transactions of the Bank hactincreased—the Taxes had been augmented —all these causes rendered an increase of the issue of Paper necessary, and afforded some excuse, if riot an entire justification, for what had been done. Thus much he thought it right to state, but at the same time he by no means wished to make himself respon sible for their entire justification. He would by no means : attempt to lead or influence the opinion of the House upon a subject of such importance, without having more ample materials before him upon which he could form his opinion. In stating what had been alledged on the part of the Bank of Ireland, as a justification of their conduct, he ,meant not to state any opinion of his own, or to call for any bpi r)ion from that House, without laying before them b;urh . documenes as so seri ous an d i mportant a su bj e ct 'required. He did not know that it was necessary for him to take up more of the time of the House, except to state, that the restriction which was now proposed upon the cash payments of the Bank of Ire land, was the necessary consequence of the restric tion upon the Bank of England ; for it would be ab- . bolutely imprakticable for the former. to pajr in specie, while the restriction remained upon the lat ter. The restriction therefore upon the Bank of Ireland, was ancillary to that upon the Bank of Eng land, and must necessarily continue as 'origin Ireland as it did in England. • He was n.)t aware of any cir cumstances that would render it necessary that the Restrietion should be continued longer in Ireland than it was in England; if however, when. that pe riod arrived, any circumstances should subsist which applied peculiarly to Ireland, he should conceive himself fully at liberty to state them.—As no dispo sition appeared to oppose the present Bill, it would be unnecessary to offer any arguments upon the sub je& ; so much was the restriction deemed necessary in Ireland after it had been imposed in England, that it was agreed to, as he might say, by acclamation, without inquiry into the state of the Bank.—lt had been said 'that the Bank of England had only doubl ed its issues since the•restridion, whereas the issue of Paper by the Bank of Ireland had increased four fold, and it was assumed that the increase which had been made by the Bank of England, was the pro portion that ought to have been adopted by the Bank of Ireland. This was a proposition however which he was inclined . to doubt, because the pro. priety of the increase must depend in a great degree upon the circumstances of the Country. When they were talking of the issue of paper, if they meant with reference to Capital, that related to Security ; but if it was taken in another point of view, it must depend upon the circumstances of t: 4 country. He merely mentioned this to guard Gentlemen from inferring positively that, because the issues of the Bank of Ireland had been so much greater in proportion to those of the Bank of Eng land, that therefore its issues must necessarily he excessive, which certainly might not be the case. He had only to add, that he did not mean to assert that the issue of Paper by the Bank of Ireland was in the proper proportion, ; he meant to give no de cided opinion upon the subjett until the proper do. currents were before the Huuse. Lord HENRY PETTY agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman that it did not necessarily follow that the issues of the Bank of Ireland must neces sarily he wrong, because they were in a greater proportion than those of the Bank of England ; but, at the same time, those issues were certainly ex traordinary. The Right Hon. Gentleman was un doubtedly responsible for the conduft of the Bank of Ireland,. but Parliament, which had invested it with such great powers, had given them the power of making money, and therefore it was their duty to prevent them from issuing too great a number of Notes. It was impossible to deny that the paper of Ireland was depreciated, and the evil,so far from tend ing to cure itself, was naturally calculated to augment itself. It was a Subjea wcrthy of consideration, that the Bank of Ireland had since the restriction increased its Dividends, and had given to the Holders of Bank this year a Bonus of five per Cent. These were certainly circumstances that could not . escape observation. But at the same time he did not mean to advise the adoption of any rash measures ; he had the greatest.reliance upon the abilities, and upon the disposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite to him (Mr. Co RRI ), who, he %Vas sure, would make every effort to remedy this evil. It had been said, that the Bank of Ireland had not the same influence over the Paper CirculatiOn of Ireland, that the Bank of England had in this Country ; this was certainly true, for he understood that two of the Private Banks in Dublin had as much Paper in circulation as the Bank of Ireland. But if the Bank of Ireland could not influence the circulation of other Banks, it might at least diminish the'number of its own notes. Mr. FOSTER expressed great satisfaction at the manner in which the affairs of Ireland had been taken up by the two Noble Lords who had spoken in the course of the Debate. With regard to the Bill be fore the. House, it was so necessary a consequence Of the Restrklion Bill, that he considered it impossible I not to enaa it. At the same time he could not help pointing out some of the effects which it naturally Iproduced in Ireland. The scarcity of specie in Ire- I land was well known : they had no gold in circula tion but what was bought at a premium ; silver there was none. He did not believe there was one real shilling to be found from one end of Ireland to the other ; they had not even brass. The effet which this want of gold produced upon trade was obvious. In the North of Ireland where payments were made all in gold,. it was necessary to purchase guineas at a premium of above to pei:Cent. The i Linen Manufadurers could only buy Their materials with guineas for which they paid this enormous price, which thiy were of course obliged to lay upon the price of their Manufadures ; this would render them unable to meet foreigners in foreign markets, and if some remedy was not acinini stered the trade could not stand. In addition to all this there was a duty of 4. per cent upon the importation of the article. Another effea this measure had was upon the exchange o f Ire land -,: this •certainly was not a very easy subjed to investigate, but it certainly was the duty of Parliament to enter as soon as possible into an investigation into the state of the Circulation in Ireland—He knew Parliament could not remedy this evil by a Law, but if there were any artificial causes operating to produce this effect, they surely might be got rid of. He sincerely hoped the subjed, would be taken up, particularly by some Gentleman on the Bench below him, (the Treasury Bench) and he was sure the result would be favourable to the trade of Ireland, and consequently to the trade of the Empire. Mr. V ANSITTART said, the subjea alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentleman was of the utmost importance,. and certainly had not escaped the at tention of His Majesty's Ministers, who would willingly adopt any measures that appeared to. them calculated to remedy the evil ; but as the subject was not regularly before the Houscv he declined entering more into it at, present. •tm Mr. H. THORNTON said, this subjeft was cer. tainly of great importance, but at the.same time, he thought it was more simple than Gentlemen in general seemed to imagine. It appeared to him clear, that the excess of paper circulation was• the cause of the bid state of exchange in that Country. It had been stated in the course of the Debate, that there was a difference of no less than to per cent, in the ex change between different parts of 'lreland, and it had been stated, that gold was purchased in the North, at a pren - rium of to per cent. and he was. authorized to take this for granted, as it had not been deni:r.l, by any Gentleman, There was a ma terial difference that Gentlemen should all keep in view between the Banks of England and Ireland:— in Ireland there was no Bank that took upon itself to manage and regulate the Circulation of the Coun try ; whereas, in England it was perfectly-' well known, that the Bank commanded the whole Paper Circulation of the Metropolis, and regulated that of the kingdom. The Bank of Ireland was insti tuted after a great deal of opposition, and the' pri vate Banks succeeded in obtaini )ermission to re main in the same state t cy were before the National Bank wa a lished, and consequently had the power suing their Paper for the circula tion both o e Metropolis and the Country. In England, here was no Bank in the Metropolis that interfered with the Paper of the National Bank ; though 'ihe Paper issued by the private Banks in Dublin was, he had no doubt, upon very goad se curity, yet, as they 'were not now bound to pay their own Paper in specie, it naturally must he their interest to have as much of their Paper in circulation as they could. The great ()Ned, therefore, which he wished to obtain,•would be if possible to limit the Circulation of private Banks : another remedy which he thought might be applied, would be to make Irish Bank Paper exchangeable for that of the Bank of England. At all events, this was a sub ject that called for the most serious attention of Par liament; and he had no doubt but that upon inves tigation, some effectual remedy might be found out. With respect to the Bill now before the House, he did not mean to oppose it, but he thought its duration should be limited to a short time, in order that the subject might necessarily be again brought under the consideration of Parliament.— He would not take up more of the time of the House at present, except merely to repeat the opinion he had before advanced, that the bad state of Exchange in Ireland, arose from the too great Circulation of Paper. Lord C ASTLEREAGM said, that the restriction upon the Bank of Ireland was necessarily connected ' with, and 'dependant upon the restriction upon the Bank of'England, and therefore, he did not see the necessity for limiting the duration of the restriction, as had been proposed by the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last ; and he trusted that the Hon. Gentleman would not, upon consideration, be inclined to pro pose it. There was one point upon which he was anxious to say a few words ; the question which had been discussed in this debate was of a very ab struse:nature, and they might consider before any remedies were proposed, whether it was not an evil beyond Parliamentary cure ; but injurious conse quences might arise from carrying their appre hensions too far, and. particularly .indulging any prejudices upon so very intricate and doubtful a point. He did not mean to - say ; that the depreciation of the Paper in Ireland might not arise from too great, a quantity of it being circulated, hut, at the same time, a great deal might depend a:pon the Gold being carried up be. yond its value. The cirealation of Ireland was in a very critical way ; in certain Counties in the North all payments were made in Gold ; this neces. sadly created a great demand for it, while the two great sources from which it used to be derived (the National Banks) are shut up by the restriction. The natural effect was this, that men, in order to make , 1 their payments in gold, must pay the necessary i price to obtain it. This necessarily created a competition for Guineas in the North ,of which raised their price beyond their true value. It was also necessary to take into consideration, the great quantity of Specie that was locked up by means of the restrictions upon the Balk, and also the quantity which persons concealed who were ap. ' prehensive .of Invasion. A necessary increase of value must therefore take place, and when there were such obvious causes for the increase in the va lue of Gold, it was unnecessary to throw out such a strong imputation upon the Bank of Ireland. He had opportunities of knowing that the Bank of Ireland was conducted upon the ,most liberal and honourable terms, and by persons of the greatest respectability. Another point which he was inclined to doubt, was that the depreciation of paper tended so much to embarrass or to injure the Irish trade in foreign markets. The Merchant, in regulating these transactions, would naturally consider the state of the market at home and abroad, and, whether he pays a greater or a lesser price, will depend upon the medium he pays it in : this might he the case in all prospective contracts, but it was different in existing contracts. ' In the case of rent, for instance, if a Landlord bargained with his Tenant to be paid in Gold, and a great increase in the value ofithat article took place, of course he would have a clear gain to the amount of that in crease. He only threw out these doubts for the I consideration of other Gentlemen, and not as fixed opinions of his own. As to what had been said about limiting the Circulation of Private Banks the Honourable Gentleman must see the difficulty, if not the impossibility, of effecting any measure of that kind. Mr. FOSI ER in explanation said, that the linen trade being compelled to give a premium of ten per cent. for gold, were of course obliged to charge that ten per cent, upon the articles ,of their trade, and this solely arising from the depreciation of paper. Some years since a meeting of the principal Drapers of the North of Ireland was held at Armagh, the object of which was to procure a, cir. culation for the Notes of the Bank of Ireland in that part of the Country, in order to avoid purchasing guineas, the loss sustained by which was stared in a resolution unanimously agreed to. If the Drapers of Ireland were then obliged to charge an additional ten per cent. upon their articles whilst there was no ad vance,s4won the linens of Germany or Russia, it must follow di course, that the demand for the former must hi lessened, whilst that for the latter would increase. He was glad so much had been• said upon the subject; ,and he hoped it would undergo still further discussions which its importance demanded. The Credit of the Bank of Ireland must be support ed ; and as the observations that had been thrown out respeEling,that Body tended to affect the Trade of Ireland, the subjed certainly called.for serious discussion. Lord C ASTLAREAGH in explanation said, that the loss sustained by the Linen Mmnufaaurer of Ire land, in consequence of being obliged:to pay a Pre: injual of 25. 41. for a Guinea, w;:s sot= w hat ideal, as he was enabled to indemnify h:rnself for that locF, 'by drawing upon his credit either at Dublin or LW don. Lord A. HAMILTON explained. Mr. CORKY, in explanation, said, that His Majesty's Ministers had not been wanting in their . duty with resped to the c,irc;u,lation of Ireland, as with their concurrence he brought in a bill last Session to put a stop to the circulation of what were called Silver Notes in that country. In order/ however, to give the Irish Members an opportunity • of discussing the subject}, the bill was not to take • effet till the first of January in the present year. The Members from that County were, however/ precluded from attending by their military ditties, in consequence of which a Bill was brought in the. present Session to suspend the operations of the former Bill, in order to give the Irish Members an opportunity of amply and fully discussing the state of the circulation in Ireland. Mr. yoll2l'sroNE observed, with respell to the scarcity of gold in the North of Ireland, that bullion might bocbined.and sent to Belfast at an expence of only per cent. This would there' fore only enhance the price of gold 11 per the remaining 81 per cent. of the advanced " bil l must arise from other causes. Lord CASTLEREAGH explained. Lord DUNLO said, he did not know where the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.. JOHNSTON E) had learnt that coined bullion could be transmitted to Ireland at so small an expence, as he recolleded, that when a part of a Loan was to be sent over to Ireland, several monied men hp., rPfncrtl to contrarci• for transmitting it to that Country at the rate of 3 per cent. although.. a .contrad was subsequently made for a per cent. --He:tongratulated the House on the discussion which ;EA taken place upon this subjed, and he hoped for a future discussion u pon the whole currency of Ireland. In such a discussion a - subjed of great consequence would of course be included, the state of the silver currency. of I re land , as it was perfectly true that there was not a W I • shilling in circulation in Ireland. • — Mr. ALEXANDER observed that the Land' : lords in the North of Ireland insisted upon beill paid in gold ; it necessarily followed therefore the tenants must procure it. If any consideraty, proportion of the Landlords in England were, to i fi ' s; sist upon being paid in gold, the same inconvenieti:C t a would result as were now, experienced in Irelaa,' and probably t h e same c h arges wou ld b e b ro tte ; forward agai nst t h e B a nk o f E ng l an d t h at were rt°,c%v, made against the Ba n k o f I re l an d. M any o f t" principal Bankers of Ireland had regular fliscounti 4 Agents in the least commercial parts of that Colin' try, from whence. arose so - consider a bl e an e missio n of Paper. into th a e C r z o tt w te a e s t , at;d T t h h e e o il u i s having then resolved passed through, itself ordered to be received to-morrow. The Portug a l Se e d C orn Inde-rnnity Bill was rea 3 . a third - :time and p asse d.- The Committee o f S upp l y a nd W ays an d MO was postponed till Wednesday. • The Lists respelling the E as t I n di a rudie lta were ordered to be referred to a Committee, t° 2 ,s port r0.1110.:10W the names of such Membet s should appear in twenty or more of such Lists. , ! o• -We understood Mr. CR ERVEY to put off tits • lion respeding Ceylon till Monklay sennight• Adjourned at seven o'clock till to=murcoW• DU I-. Hainburgh - -2 • MAILS. A Pl¶l O• PRICE OF STOCKS, THIS DAY AT 'MILNE O . CLOCK. Consols - - 551 I Red. Ann. 561 I On - In. ;i THE SUN. QUIS DICEXE. FALSUM AUDSAT ? LONDON, FEBRUARY 14, 1804' ,N e ike THE Hamburgb Mail due on Wednesditi ) second of the three due, arrived this morning.' • ' brings the following articles of intelligence : o fr CONSTANTINOPLE, DEC. 24.—.Sevcral Ships of the Line and Frigates have arrived ,/fr some of which have made their passage in tl ai .( two days, and have brought the disagreeable Ini ligence, that the Arnauts and Arabs have en ile ft , • and made themselves masters of the City of 1 1011 dria. The greater part of the Foreign Co ns o and Vice-Consuls have left the City, and ta lc iie refuge on board the Ships. It is said that , t o ' French Commercial Commissary, and the Asoi,'o; and lonic Consuls, are expected sOon at C' S ' at e - tinople. These new disturbances in gYl' t ascribed to• fo reign influece. The Rebels in Romeli n a have received OW / forcements. c O l The schismatic Greeks in Natolia have beg - t ie violent persecution of the Roman Catholics' cos , Grand Signior has endeavoured to quell these turbances, but they still continue. • 111:411. VIENNA, JAN. 2l.—According to accoun ts t lel Hungary, General Baron KRAY, who disti n g uis himself in the Italian Campaigns, particula rf t 4 the Vietories near Verona and Legnago, i 5 13 ; dead there. ...A, Oa" o v His IMPERIAL MAJESTY ,ba's appoin‘v- BINDER, late Secretary of. Legation at nerl i° ' charge.d' 4Pb-is at Copenhagen :* P. ; od • RATISBON, JAN. 26.—The, Concordat P r- S t he to be concluded between the German Empi re asi lin til A Pope, is not laid aside ;it is only suspen- e cs' the adjustment of the itNstion concerning tholic Votes,