The Sun. — London, England, 1801-06-03 00:00:00

i ~ 1 Is . , in Motions for redsicirig"Ofir Standing Arrny, Much ' • had been said ahoutpor :good • faith, and about the precarlebs; siruation of digits in Italys when the order was sent out stn t. Fici'-stiffer . the Freisch to leave Egypt ; but. it she fil`:lse recollected, that those orders were sent out..it December, and that at ! that times' the Fr - ens - AY were nOt,supposed , to -be able to resist the Allies in Italy, -But.if we oweßkgood faith to the Ausfriafw-we • also awed it to the Turks, whcr'-'w ere our Allies-as %Venlig the Abstrians ; • and in breaking the convention of E1..-Arish, we nei ..therslit.'W'ed gond i !h. rr3r policy „s-:- flti was - glad. to , Hon. Gentleman-speak insech terms of the Ftericli - Artly'in Egypt, they certainly were worthy • to be °PPenesi• to our Troolisi-noisvithstanding the repulse they 11.:M-stissained.,- flit.' he would not admit that we had gained, a vi6torr. It:was -now found - convenient to represent the-French Army in Egypt as mr s ,st formidable, but .he .remembered when-a very eiffrent lanktnyge was- held; ? and when . they - • wet-! teisitsen ed as reduced almost to nothing, and wanii4,Allitbst every neeessary-l - le concluded with itati;rg, thlt upon these grounds he should support ,t 1 =e Motio n .. . • . • • Mr. PITT desired that-. the MOtiori -might be leads - • .. • , The E Are it-was proceeding to readtheNotion • -*heti. . MS - . PITT said, lie would not give those Gentle. , Tien who had heard the motion the trouble of hearing it read over again. If the objea of the Hon. Gentleman ,vas - io know who, were the advisers of . the measure; some 'trouble . might be saved, for neith er he nor his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. .D11:1- bss) - had any -hesitation in stating Aar they were t'va of the persons. who advised it - ; and if the object: ' l. ' 4- t he - Hon. Gentreman was only 'to knowsagainst whom he was to diret't his charge, that object was slut,v obtained. .Not_having teen in the. House at the commencement of the debate, he should not trouble the House at any length, he wished merely to observe Upon,somt of the topics whiclr had been u rged by the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last. He' 7 " 11 ): did not know that 'any Motion of this kind a ' to be made on this day ; if he had expressed any ' lO -twrion - of not being present again upon MotiOns of this sori,it did riot proceed from a wish to show any t o anY Gentienians or from any intention of ot at tendingsto the proceedings of t'arliany-nt, Imt he really though t -i t more respedful to the House when it , declitrd it - self satisfied upon any 'poirst, not to t ' c e'd I , y its time by,dellating the subjcrt merely be. . 4att ''e tine . ' Honourable Gentleman, or a' fcw.'Gen '-'entc-nr.ruight still 'remain unsatisfied. The Ho- Octarable Gsnttensin bad ade . several remarks " 1 ' - the Speech of his. Right Honourable Friend, (111-r. ), but they .seemed to- have been, 0 1 founded ,iii misapprehension. His Right 1 2 4 "rable Friend had not stated that it was ju-sti 'able to-tintiertake.an expedition rlitlelY to lave An , ''PPortunity of d;,plairig • our military powers jet this was the sentiment .Which. the Hon. Gentle. hian had attribinid to him,. though lie--was sure it -! r misapprehension, There. Acre 'two; points which Iris Right Hon. Friend had nistiliguished, which the Hon. .Gentlei - nan-had Con . It:ived c . ciinpletely to . o:isf - otintl. : His Right Hon. I fend had defended t he measure in question as lug proper at' the time it Wits adopted, and had contended, thou ssh bad conse q uences li.tds_ ensued, Yet if the:f4c 4 :re 'was 6 riginally - righ;, it : could 'ut be a just ground of censure 'against Ministers-- , a Vtiliosiiion so clear and so r videnify . founded in e4 s° ll 4'that,he was sure no man could seriously deny ' He would ask, if there was any man living who did not ,feel, as indeed the Honourable Genii:Allan, who spike 144'11113 . 5t feel; it being part ofsni heredi., 12 ,rY spirit of tha t lion. Gentleman to feel, for, the, glory - acqu i red is_suy the British -Arms.; indeed there I‘as not, he beli ev ed, a Met:3lloin that House who d b i . d not participate-in the 'sentiment . expressed by his 'Olt lion. Friend' ( M r.. JEDUM4) 4Q- 6 igh - ri• and y et he was sorry to observe, that the .Hon, Gentle. Than, although he said- he never concurred, in any, e xpression to d a mp .th e ar dnu r of tbe.Pe°Ple, or tar. fish the lustre of the British 'Army, had laboured 'IP tell the House, that the Force of this .Cosim ry, as far its it related to it s Army, had, not. been con- Tleted in any, way t o pro d uce to , us any thing but sibs-aster. The Ham Gentleman : bad preserved a Rteat.deal of ibis disenuraging temper throughout. l be leadi ng parts of h i s S pee dh to-n i g ht, for he had risisted unit that we should not think - of making uP a Military Force ofgreat weight on the Conti. cent, and this at a season. when the militarrexer v'243 rat this Country were most conspicuous, from Cry reient instances, amid one. particnlatlyglorious TT, 141 , 164 e, an atchievement ,which wits never sur- A r Ak t , in ..either skill or:: valgors the British tns ; however, at such a time, and under such it, that thelinn. Gentleman hadit4isred on ( 3 that stiould not `. at a great MilitarY d natatler On t h e costineot, but that we, should b, e - Pend9 n our Naval Strength, which was . the flail rye adapted to our insular 'Putt indeed. ,„er should have aii Ariny,, but that .should have a Wccustorned to. ' lere nee to such a Military Force g ns we w ilt- t i ll l z hasie iniimee past, and, of refer ence to the Asmi e s Of the with whom we ?, VC to contend—aboveall, that Ave should never bndeavour to ha v e . an Army' whose operation ca n eel( Wled tEI litrVe any considerable effed on the c ontinent. Such wits.the. substance of the Speech of the 44" ,_ 111 •Q m cntiean at this,' extraordinary period. t „ --w, ue .knew not in what sense Gentlemen mean t aPply these genei'al observations6pon our tasure . :in a .gcngrapi)ical sense, he .was, gilt he knciv not exam ly what distindion they pj? tnt etilled to m ak e —if ihe'y meant to say that a unity like ours, .having so.much persossal;proper 411tquircd-by Trade, Commerce, .arid .PartiCLOAflY e , 4 44o l2tdure, and Naving, by .tri4:4isscry, ,acquir ", such decided sti seriori:y of Finance and other ati"At' I the „ dg,es over sall the_ Nations of Earth, e % '1" nat have - so numerous an .Army as others, he. for '!d under Stand them.S—lf 'they oz . ht,. wa these reasons, :to limit oar tailitary Tort*, .he s ready -to admit It. If they - meant to -say that 4nv!'light in 4 g reat de g r ee re ly on O uts n av al strength co 'lit 1 vant a g es o f an insular situa'tiOn, he Could, a 2 t rehesti them, a nd, t & a given 'extent, he - could them ; but if (114 etrricd this &incl. % indirfetent to the foi re 91.1 the that lie could nor assent to i . t. It wo true, Lad done4nueL itrilie - Letiuse we were engagesi ; oar Naval Power, and brae! . S sidies, but that by o 9 means excluded ,the mions this' country by Means of a military - friteel, We had not indeed added much as Principals in the warin a military sense, but we must_not - from thence conclude that the British Military force at all times, and under all citcuinstances, should be small or inconsiderable. We had aeteii upon a different principle ,throughout the war, and by our exertions we had not only saved ourselves aa?riumphed in every instance in which we had ad opportunity of shewing:our • skill and val Our, Out we had afforded `the-rest of the world many Ciliporttinities - Of being saved from devastation; and the -prineipli - on Which we had afted would be dene away by the system-rectnntnended - by the Hem •Gentleman.— .ButsuppOsing the Hon,Gentlenao to be right in the general principle, that we should on the Continent be sparing in our Military exertions ; on the. Co ntinent was an unqualified expression—reould any man tell him, that because the ocean sets limits to Certain parts of what we call the' Continent, there were no parts of it on which a British mili tary farce could not ad to advantage, especially when we considered how we might supply our transmarine Stations and Establishments by our Naval Force. gut the Hon. Gentleman had found fault with the Government of this Country for not sending the Force which we did send to Egypt, to Portugal, for he said that to save Portugal was or ought to be a greater objeft .to us than that of endeavouring to dislodge the Enemy from Egypt. How the Hon. Gentleman meant to have employed the British Troops to the defence of Portugal, he wai at a loss ro conjeeture, since the Hon. Gentle Man had not been sogood as to point it out. As to the utility of the plan of, sending our force to Egypt, independent of the glory attached to the British name by our efforts there already, it should be remembered that the Enemy had long been in possession of the place. We had already been able to dispute titat possession. with them, and to render it doubtful at least.— Thew had not been able to send any reinforcement to their -Troops there, although our distance from the place.wa.s very great, and some of their Ports • comparatively almost contiguous ; but if the Hon. Gentleman really thought that at the time we sent our Troops' to Egypt, we could have employed them mnore to advantage in the adual defence of Portugal, under ail time circumstances of that time, if such were really the politics • of the Hon. Gentleman, he must be excused for wishing to hear the Ho nourable Gentleman explain himself ) for at pre_ ,sent he really did not understand' him..--But, the • Honourable Geoileinan had adverted also to the order of our Government in December 1 amaem.— Now he wished to Observe in passing, that' when instructions were sent to 'Lord _by which he had no discretion, Government had no know ledge that the Convention which did take place had been agreed to. We only supposed something of that kind might take place between the Turks and the French General, But the moment there was a Convention concluded, although it was not by a person who had power to do so, Government did • not forbear to mention its disapprobation of that measure on the part of a man (Sir S. SMITH) whOse' • services tJ his country in other respecti were equal perhaps to any thing that ever was performed' - by • man; but although 'Government did disapprove of this one unauthorised aft of this extraordinary of_ . firer, yet no sooner, did they learn that he had en tered Into the treaty, than they ordered - it to be confirmed on our part ; no slight proof of - a scrupu lous delicacy on our part. But when the Orders. were sent to Lord KEITH, they were sent on a cusp cion of an agreement between. the Grand at td d the French General. An application was made to the King's- Ambassador for Passports. ritere was no right in the Porte to conclude a Treaty which purported to be 'binding on our in - - terests, for we were engaged as well as they were iu the enterprise ; the King's Ambassador was not tie Peisori to grant the Passporti, and the diredion' given to , Lord Ka I Ili was, not to regard •PasspOrts, for which there was no authority. But the Hon. Gentleman had said, that this was at a time w hen it was representetion'the part of the then Atimini , stration, that there were the most sanguine-hopes and expetations of the Army of the Allies going to France, and making there a progress which the 'French could not oppose. The. Hon. Gentleman. was Jileased to say, he remembered what he (Mr. riTT) said on that occasion, to which ; he was pleased to add, that it made an impression on him. 'This, however, he Said, he did from his own me mory. ' Now the Hon. Gentleman had imputed to him an absurdity which he .had never uttered. What he stated on that occasion,. to which the Ho . minable Gentleman referred, was in substance .this • .- - --That, considering: all the circumstances of the time to which he was then referring, considering all the ptohable _advantages -and the certain disad vantages of a Negotiation, that it was . for the: in terest of this Country that the Negotiation was re-' jeded•—thmit he added, there Was a probability the 'Allies would obtain important advantages over the•• French, was most true, nor was he ashamed of having Aid - that was a probable event at that .pe riod. LoOking back on all the events of that day, he was justified, even now, to saying that it was plob l able—the event did.not answer hisexpeftation, was true also, but that was not owing to any defeet either, in the valour or skill of our Force, or the want of prudence in our Councils ; it depended on events over which we had no controul. But, then the Hen. Gentleman appeared to be very angry ,With .hisßight Hon. Friend, for having made use- of the phrase, a' kraftio - n o a Battle. That, phrase was rather a part of that' matheinatical.accuracy Which his Right Hui. Friend was accustomed to, than unfortunately belonged to a subjea of this . kind, to whieh, lie f,rared, it was incapable of being,reduced ; -but .the Phrase had a very 'clear meaning. The Hon., ''Gentleman had treated, it as an absurd ,expression he - had said' the Fragment of,a.Battle,whieh deeided• the .fate -of Europe! It had 'unfortunately too long, delayed what he hoped Would ultimately be the fate of Si rape ; bur instead of •opposing the.. argument of his 'Right Hon. Friend, the floa. Gentleman was erifOrcina it ; for it appeared clearly,' most clearly - at the. B:ittie-ofl‘larengem, That the-fate of it was so tong susii•ended, :Ind 'the, balance 'so nearly - even; was almost to 'the last hour doubtful .how it would termina:e, s tud the _pit:ailing his Right • • • • nen. Friend was, not that the_Battle itself was mere Prigment of Military'gxertioti; but that the Stale was long fieldso even, that ihe slightest addi tional weight ;flit-tied it,. and in thi, seta. the Fate of the battle was clecid?,d - by a Fragniot.: A . few, more men would have enabled the Austrians to ob-. lain the, viaory of that day by which a favourable turn would - have been given :to the affairs of this world; it, however, untbitunately.turned out other wise, While these affairs tvere:going - on, we were too much interested in the- fate of Europe to attend to: Egypt; not that we did not always think it important, but-that we did not think itso important "as the then impending fate of thegreater part of ,Eu rope ; but when those affairs took another turn, .we then considered of. disputing the - posiession of Egypt_ with the enemy,, that being in a . given state of things the-_ most immediately important as con neEted with the probable fate of . the .chief part of the habitable globe; While the independence of EitrOpe was in a state which required our-aid, there was no dastardly principle of Self-interest that ope. rated Upon us.—We afforded- cur aid cheerfully.-- The fortune of war might for a while he unpeopi .. tious, but we having Been always true to our prin.. cipies and faithful to our promise, had no mortify ing refledion or disgrace attached to us. We would not look on Egypt while the fate of Europe remained in suspense, for we then were ac tive, and did every thing that depended on us to make that fate favourable: to Europe.— / Events took a turn in which our efforts did not appear to be likely to produce the desired died. Therefore, then, Egypt became the objea of our 'exertion; and these eiertions had been already favouNble to the British Arms. • But to take the other side of the case, and to suppose we, instead of sendirg our Troops to ' Egypt, had sent them to :make an impression_ on France, as the Hon.-Gentleman had expressed a wish we had, the next point would be, to consider what the pro- ' bable result of that would have been ; because we' were not sure that, if we entered France, we should meet the French force' • in-a point or manner that might be- suitable to our wishes. So that this way of talking, of opposing France at home instead of going . to -Egypt, was a mere evasion of the real gnestion -now before the House; and much of what the Hon. Gentleman had stated to-night, "had ex cited his surprize. Hokvever, the short observation he made at the commencement of his Speech ) would tend to shorten the Debate tonight; he meant that of avowing the responsibility of having advised the course which was taken in the aft - airs of Egypt. It was stated that this business was • to become the ' subjed matter of a charge againSt His Majesty's . late. Ministers. He was ready to meet such charge ' wheoever brought. He had only to add„ that he hoped- the House would forgive him for the trouble, he had given it to-night. Mr.GREY' explained, as did also Mr. WI NDHA/A. Mr. MARTIN returned his thanks to the. Gin denten who had spoken so hands*ely of the courage and skill of our ArmY. He was glad to .say, that he never heard an individual say any thing to. the disadvantage of our Military, any more than our Naval Force. He could not help wishing, how ever, that our Military Exertions were, made with a little 'more discretion : He thought, thatlf they were, we might save many thousand lives. Sir GEO. DALLAS maintained, that in the sub •. jed of Egypt, flis 'Majesty's former Mintsters had been charatsd with miscondul, in the case of the Treaty of Sir SIDNEY Sattrx. That subjed - must rest on - two grounds, for there were no. other : that of the`justice, and policy of the measure.. He en larged on boar these topics, and maintained, that both justice and policy were with His Majes,ty's Ministers on this occasion, and said, he should vote against the Motion. Mr. ROBSON .condemned the conduct of His Majesty's late Ministers, and supported the Mo. tion• Mr. ELLISON complained that this subjed had been too often before the House, this being the 12th time.—This he hardly thought right,' when' public business remained to be done—He thought His Majesty's late Ministers, to censure whose con. dud was the objed of the present motion, deserved great praise of the People, and he believed they had it, for that 19 out of zo of the whole Country approved oftheir condud ; and.in this resped their condud was, in his opinion, eminently _praise worthy. • . Mr. JONES made a short reply. After whieh the House divided For the Motion 27 Against it - - r3B While Strangers were excluded, we understood, that on reading the Order of the Day on" the In demnity Bill, which .was for the second /coding of it, a division took place,' For the Bill - . 128- Against it ? • ; When Strangers wet', admitted, we found • , Mr. : ADD ING7QN.up::.--fle said, that as to the Indemniti Bill,. (as we undertitood, for we did not hear what .Bill), he should propose to have it read a second time to night.• That, as to the I.Ubjea of Supply, and Ways and Means, of which an• I i.!:. Relation !Of his had. given notice for Friday' next, it ~vas his intention' to postpone it until ly1(13y, and lie propoSed also going into a Comthittee on the Indemnity Bill on Friay. • The QUC!itiOil was then put on the Bill, and it was rCad a second time, and ordered to be ►nittcd to a Ciiii)tnittee athe. Iv hole :Rouse on , Friday. , - Mr. DUN!) AS said, he shOuld bring, forward Financial Affairs of India on Mundaylatit •this he changed to Wednesday the regnest . of `Mr. -o1N410?1, to make way for the c'tionniqee of Ways and Means on Monday. Mr...7O`NES desired Mr. DONBAS to 4Clay the affairs of India still further, on account of some : supposed defiCiency o f d o c u Men t s.' Mr. DUNDAS said, he co•ald not delay thediu, rsinesS further. than Wednesday, and on that tit he '‘ivhoetllt Papersco n I t 7 o i c w e i t c h i e l Sir W. ktaiOßD . (111. Gentleman' himself that he - said al could not,distindly•hear. • . d f c e d w t . v u e p r o e rd% o : 1 1 11 V I t i l i e 4.: ll i l ,;Vti Mr. ABBOT Moved the Order of the Day for die second reading of tile Id h Martial Law Bill. 'the Bill was Kalil a econd time. On r~ ~+tt r1l~~t!{ I tion ! , eirtz pui for commit,-ing it to a Cotrunatee of the. whole 1-lOuge . oo - - Mr. G. PONSONCY said; he was not aware of the crce , ,ity of the Bill, and therfoie inovetio:i Amenihnent, instead of the words ' rucsday, next,"' ‘‘thrs dAr thr4 , rtofrith." Mr. 0: BROWN was of opinion, that the saing necessity which cAused'the existed now: The Question wAs put ; the Arn.mciment and the Bill was ordered to be coarnizled to a Committee of the who:e House on Tuesday next. ilfr. 'GREY pre , ..ente I a Petition . from Pad Thomas - Le Maitre, cgodned on a suspicion of High Treason, setting forth historic:4lly his cliturnstanees during the whole of 'his coal ricmem the above charge, and praying sudt reiirlai to 0;2 shall seem meet. Ordered to he on th. . Mr. Vo.NSIT . TART'gaY:: -mice ef his inzenri'.)n triovQfor . leave to bring in a Bill to indenrliry per sons who, acting under the authority ef have printed and published hand-bills ..11(3ut the na Mg of the ter being annexed. Mr. , VA N%; IT. TAi.T also gave notiee'of hi:, inteittinn.to move to morrow," that the House resolve it self into a Corn .mittec to consider of - the. propriety of 'imposing certain regulittiont on the Trade to.and froin it~f lea. The -Bill for the Improvement of the Manufac tures and Revenue of the Isle' of ..Man Went through .t Committee. The Report was ordered to be re, czived to-morrow. The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider of the Impartation 'and Exportation ot e Conper. . Mr.' VANS TrT4RT stated to the Coirrnittee the objed which head in view in moving fir this Committee, and the nature of the Resolutions which he meant to inoVe in order to form the foundation of a Bill which he wished to bring in. The objed of the Resolutions and of the Bill would be to alio w''the free impOrtation and exportation olCopper; but as in time of war it would be obviousli impruAent to allow the Ivc exportation of this article at least to the Coon. tries of Europe, he wished to vest in His Myjesty a power to prohibit its exportation to any Country •in Europe, during war, by Proclamation, and order of Council : but that the Proprietors or the Copper Mines may be no sufferers by this last regulation, he farther wished, that when such a Prohibitionof the Exportation of Copper May take place, Copper imported into this Kingdom, should be liable to half the Duty now imposed on all Copper imported. Having thus, stated his objed, - and the nature, of the Resolutions which he 'intended to Move, he had only to add, that the regulations of the' projeded Bill would extend to Ireland as well as England, and put the Copper Trade of the whole . United,King:. dons on an'equal footing. He thetimOved, " That it is the opinion of tie Committee, that after a Cer, tain periOd the freo. Importation,and Exportation of Coppei' into and frOm the United,KingdoAs ought to be permitted." This Rtsolution was' put and agreed to., He .then moved, " That it is the opi. nion of the Committee, that the present 'Danes payable on Copper imported into, this I , :_ingdont do cease and determine." Mr. IVICIM.LS expressed ;fit-apprehension that the cif ea of theie regulations would -tend so much td lower the, price el Copper, as 10 cause many of the mines in Cotifwall" to be shut up; and ilia , . to 'ruin. that part of the Country, stets seriously=, to consider this businesJ, w, ich he conceive' to be of the highest importahce, be;or-e, they pushed it - farther, Mr. GREGOR (Member for Cornw:01) acsnred the Committee and -the Hon. Gentlenyn , , ti-.lt the .proppsed regulations met with the lull approbiltion of the Proprietors of the .mines in that County, and that it would be' very beneficial tothetn: The Resolution Was then. pit and itgreisd to. Two other Resolutions were then. ;moved and agreed to; conforinable to the generafobjed already stated. The Rrport of the Commirtee was ordered to be received to-morrow., . . The Other Orders of the Day were deferred. The nonse adjourned at nine o'clock'. till to. From the LONDON GAZETTE, - guile 2, dol. powiting,Stfeet, Juve 1, 18c11. A Dispatch, addrelised to the Right Hanourable Henry Dundas, of which the Xollowing is a copy, was this day received at the Office of the Ri,Ot Honourable Lord Hobart, one of His 11,9Lijesty 's Principal Secretaries of State!, from lAutenant- General Trigge, Comman3er in Chief of Hi s Ma. jesty's Forces in the Leeward and Windward Cha ribbet Llands, SIR, Martinique, April 27; rBAt. . . I lose not a moment in having the honou to,cotl . municate the informasion which has .hren jut. now ;oil, of. the Islands of St. EnstatinS and Sahay having surrendered on the 26t instant,, to a De. tachment of the 3d Regiment of Foot, under the command of Lieutenant,Cotouci Blunt, and. Captain of His Majesty's Ship Aral). . _ The iriclosed Extraa of a Lettcr from Mr. Pre ,itlent Thomson, commanding at St. Chrif,topherts, ovlcring Lieutenant-Colonel. Blunt to, proceect oit ServL'e, and of I,..jeuteniltlt.Colonel Bluot's Of.. ial Lett , :r, v.cluainting me with the_tosulr i w ill explain eo . y!.:ltr all such circtiinstotnees as you mly w . Ol to be jilortnea of. • . have only to add, that the Officers chteged with the conAuaing of thisi service, hlve acqlitted themie'vc:i vvit-h such juk,igment and promptitude as . to merit an , .l receive my Qutire approb.tCon. I have :1-.c honcur incioe to you lleFewith, a Copy of .tide _term on which these Istan,is were sturenderc:l, and have ,ben pl;n:ed un,lLq• His kla:. j2sty's C.3overnment ; .htz t ,2111 Jin:thle to tr. -- ,nimit by thi!', opportunity the Return -of Orchliltice, as, there is 'not sufilicklit time at prt:scnt to irnis 1114 * (lii out corrediy. I have the I. l .,:maur 10 b 4, (Signed) - 11 . 10. :HAUGE; Limit. Ge,uerld. Extrrel of a Letter from I.4ente„itant-Colonetalltia, el .k.gittitlit of Foot; to Lietttermfrtt-Geireral Trigge, dattd St. 40hystalizs, zzd I have the honour to inclose 41i1 Orderalaressed Presidenst ()ISt, Kitts, in consequence of I embarked on b lard His Majesty Ship Arab, ;CapzaiA Perkins, and an Armed Schooner,