The Sun. — London, England, 1804-03-01 00:00:00

i , if the tuettly ta*, them ,coming, n , tnignty eturri-,* bens the' day alter an aim and another equal.. ly nutherotis body The day .following,• the Ene- s my would not on l y exped, but would soon be sure of a defeat. The lion. Gentleman had quoted a va riety- of cases, and some of Which he had never be. fore heard o f, h e h a d qu ., ted the case of the batt l e o f Jemalve, to s h ew w h at F renchmen could do ; I.vhat. Frencli'Volunteers could do : they were a parcel of shopmen, and some of them barbers from. Paris, and yet they dFove the Duke of Brun wick off the con fines of:France. . Now, if the French Volunteers could do this, cloathed arid equipped as they were, what was to he expeded from English Volunteers, - cloathed and accoutred as they are, alai ading upon the. beit principle, in the best cause, tor the best Conititution in the World, and impelled by the best feeli gsi and l oo ki n g to the best objet that could in. hall 't rte human mi n d ? N ow, - the sublet} of n hat ibeen accomplished by these sm .ck.fruck soldiers Rhad been very copious. They had been tried in the ebelli on i n America, a country better adapted for m than any other in the known world, and under 'circumstances peculiarly favourable to that species of inrCe--That force was tried at the beginning of the Rebellitin ; but after Wards the Americans found it ne_ cessary to use Regular Troops. What was the case when this sniock-frock Army Caine into the field against our Regular Troops ? What was the effect of this smock force being relied on ? Why, that every man John of them was taken ; but afterwards they re- lied on Regular Troops th . He obser ve d a l so , t h at as to S t:.enOgernents i n L a V endee and the case-of the Sc these • coteh, to ad forkwhieh the H on . O ff i cer had referred, some they could not tot but th e y only had them because• get firelocks ;• and the Highlanders, although they had not been disciplined, yet they fought in the way with which they were hest ac quainted, and so far they resembled Regular Troops. Why then it came to this, that meta With a g reat deal of ardour and zeal may do a great deal wit f, out discipline, but to say, that even such men would not do bette r if the would he y had t h e advantage. of discipline, to say, that which was, in his opinion, saydined to g that whi c h w cee as irrational. H e . t h en pro . take a short view of the state of our Navy. Gentlemen said, that this was not to com pare with any Other time but h a d ;he did not say it was, me at w yet to learn th at t h ere was any depart hatever in the Navy deficiently conducted, Or any exerti on wanting; w we re now infinitely superinr to th e united Fleet e s Of France, Spain and Holland, and th at to a greater extent than we were a t any period of the last War ; nor were we in any degree deficient in preparation to meet the Enemy's fjotilla off Brest France. , Boul ogne , or any other port in Neither did he think that the opinion .of the Hon. Officer was to be taken in prdference to the very grave opinion s of others who must have con sidered maturely the pOints to which he had called the attention of the House. But one WoU!d suppose, , . 4 ,the speech of the Hon. ()M oat : , t h ere was no w h" 'tan who understood Was to lay down the ihese Matters that he alone this -Country ; wherealsawh-for military l matters: in e • oug ht to remember there were o t h ers of ~, higher. rank than the Honourable experience aial dot:K. l o who ad. Officer iin 'vise(' His Nlajesty' Portant matters. 1C Ministers upon the seth case With respea This was particularly . 1i t o the preparations which la( bee " II "ie °fficer In a District which t h at H onoura bl e alluded to, he meant the entrenchment at Cheli llsf • l'd ; that w as under t h e suverittendance of General Hooe, and ot h ers who had gained' tlwit laurels in . Egypt ; besides if all the measures which the Honourable Officer had go . freely censured were i ndeed - SO full of del aas he stated them to - be, it tthigh, have beeD desirable that he should have proo sed some pradiCable system that was better.-- - N either did h e see the rtopriety of the HonoOrable nt .r, leman's Sentirhents respeaingMilitary " --i erls it. Having gone over and answered most of the tojiies of the of the Honourable: Mem be der who preceded him, he then addressed him _ lf.. to the . Plan mentioned -on at former occa.. Sio n .I, i ,-- ~3 r Mr. PITT, whose authority he admi'i ‘ ..e ci ~. ii i n `° ne very high indeed, which was that of hay. C ures Adjutants from the Line for all the Volunteer butt:ohe admitted that to be extremely desirable, to‘tine-aNtehended it to be altogether impracticable the trYuelittent that c o uld render it truly useful; for Ict•find ' ll vas o that nothing was more difficult than and h e aB°l3 d Adjutant that could be at all spared ; a Ppreh en d a e t V some other inconveniences which he 014 plan . would ,attend the attempt of carrying in ~caro lt' dliln().eXeCtitiffil, and concluded with assent_ g yto the Motion for the SPEAKER leaving the Chair. Five Gentlemen stood u at once to Chai r . p address th e Colonel-CRAWFORD, however, was first heard in explanation, as teas afterwards General MAITLAND. t il dmlra 186 R ICE LEY sa id , i t was quite impossi -451e for him• to Sit any longe r silent upon this occasion. A questibn had been brought forwaid in that House, in Which it might have been ex peded f rom hi s pro hitherto havinfessi on h e should have taken some pa r t, and for his He w as brow ght 'g passed it. over he bl amed himself. up under the Noble Lord who, was now at the head of the Admiralty, and he be much atrea e d i n d eed before he could open his must lies • against hint. It was for that reason he observed si lence upon the subjeCt. the'N o bl e H Lord w e did ev en now h ope that the bl ame - ould be exemp t f rom hi s share of for blame, there -certainly was attaching, to the'Admiralty, for want of proper preparation: That Nbble Lord was off his.duty fur three:fourths of the year, leaving the business to;inexperienced band; 'He did say that the Noble Lord's- prepara tions' for the Defence of our Coast was most lament ably'defedive otliisAvaa only--an idea of hiss ; but if an inquiry took place into that .matter , he should call to the Bar of that. House Officers in the service, from the hi ghest to th e loweso,•to prove w h at h e was saying. - --- -He -had not b e f ore spoken on the subjea in that House, but , he had communicated to Ministers his ideas' upon it long ago, and had alluded to what had Past in the months of August and Odober last, when nut Coast might have been, and ought to have een - in a sufficient state of defence. The preparation s for t _ the present W ar were not to ' be compared to those o f an _, y other : the former Wars had no mote leselliblance to the present one, in point 'of magni.• ,acne, than a small S co rn kiff had to Noah's Ark: •He Plaintd tloht we - had ntleded our Flotilla, while l' s rrrtell bald been . prod giously increasing their; ;_ that alt'hoUgh - we *were - told - by - a riciiii-of the Ads- 1 miraliy - some months ago, that the Navy of France.' c" , ../nSited' a a" few - Fishing Boats, yet we had allOiY. ed thrill to increase their Niyy so rapidly, as to be' now equal in number ofShips, or nearly so, to us. —The French had 400 or five hundred Gun Boats, an'J we had not zo to oppose thein ;- he thought we had been most culpably deficient in that resped. -He thought that althouglrour Frigates Could not go'close to the harbours of the Enemy, that we should have had gun boatg to do so, and attack and destroy them in their harbours, if our Admiralty had done their duty. He observed that our system of Sea Feri cibles had been greatly neglefted—He saw no pro vision upon that subjel in this Bill: he should ehdeavour to iorrodue something oNltat sort into the Bill it t the Committee. Captain MARKHAM said; he muss beg leave to make a few observations on what had been advanced by the Hun. Admiral, and he could not help re marking on the painful sensation which he had felt in his detailing what he had just given to the House, and which, when detailed, appeared to him to he ob. jedionable, for he ought to have made it a suhjea of a diStiod, motion ; he ought to !laic brought it forward in a specific way, and not in the very un handsome manner in which; •he must say, it had been done----(A great cry of" Hear! hiar ! Chair —He said he could not help feeling what he He did not mean Co make use of any terms which were not Parliamentary, - but he could not help having the kind of feeling which he had expressed, for the Hon. Adiniral had stated that the faculties of the Noble Earl at - the head of the Admiralty were not adequate to the situation he- occupied ; that he left the ba s iness to inexperienced hands ; but his faculties were now as strong as when he instructed that Hon. Admiral; althOugh his health required that he should be sometimes in the conntry. How far that Hon. Admiral had improved since he had no longer the instruction of that Noble Lord, he did not know: Now he said he would not speak at all of hiMself, althobgh he was one of those inexperienced hands wherri the Hon. Admiral alluded, but be would speak of his colleague (Sir Tho: Troubridge.) The first 'voyage he' made he was'twelve years in the East-Indies; he had nor heird from the Wirt. Admiral where his foreign services had been. As'in' the small craft of which the Hori Admiral had spoken, he did nut 'know lioW he would manage it ; that was beyond his comprehension ; how small craft could gb into the harbours of France he could not comprehend, for . the •whole coast was lined with cannon. He - said that our FrigateS cannot go in, but that our small' craft may. It was entirely in- Comprehensible to him, how small craft could go 0: - .der the Enemy's cannon - . It had been intimated that we might have had a number of Gun-b Oats• to oppose_ the Gin-boats of the Enemy. That was ridtculbus and absurd. He was not used to speak the laTiguage that was common'in that House, which was generally smooth' fine flowing -speaking, but he • must speak the langUage of the profesion' he was bred to. If we adopted a system Of-going to the Enemy's ctiasein•Gtin-boats to attack them there, the first gale of wind would bring the news that they had been all - ship-wrecked; •and if they were • not lost in the storm, they must be destroyed by'the batteries of the Enemy ; there was no get ting at the Enemy's G-Un.b•,iats without getting under the cannon of -the Eneiny, for the French Gun-boats crawled along'their Coast, like crabs, at low water. HoweverOf the - Hon.: Admiralwiahed to try his luck: in a Gun-boar to go to destroy the French, he should be provided with a Boat for that purpose. He then repeated what he had said on a former occasion, that the low rate of Insurance was t he beSt proof oldie good cooduti of the Admiralty, and he appealed to' the mercantile part of the House • to bear 'witness Whether that fad was as he had • stated. Aa'mirol BERKELEY explained, and observed, that he did not mean by inexperience, inexperience as - a Naval Officer, but inexperience as Lords of the Admiral') . With regard to . his - own Foreign Ser vice, he had been in all Parts of the Globe, except __[We dia not hear the name of the place.] Col2nel LYRE applauded the Volunteers highly for their gallantry and rote patriotism. He thought their discipline entirely 'respectable, and pettedly ' adequate to the purpose for which they were in tended; he could not bear the idea of hearing them spoken of lightly of. He thought, if all partisa in the House were to unite at this time to Support the Government as they ought to do, this Country would be perfectly free from danger. Sir W. YOUNG -opposed the Bill, on the gene ral grounds of the impropriety of the present Vo. lonteer System, and of its being a dangerous as well as unnecessary interference of the King's Pre rogative in calling out his Subjeds for the defence of the Realm. Mr. FULLER passed many very •handsome com pliments on the Volunteers, for zeal, courage, dis- - cipline, and pure patriotism, but said he should vote against the Speaker's leaving the chair, because he thought the Bill both unneceisary, and might'be in some degree dangerous, because now that a Court of Justicehad set an,tmportant point at rest respelling the Volunteers, they would susped that some measure must be in agitation to take them some hoW or other, which might have a bad effed on the whole system. As to the idea that the Volunteer system interfered with the Militia and the Atmy of Reserve, he was confident that was not sn ;• that if they had no ex emption whatever, the Volunteers were persons of that condition in life, that at least two-thirds of theth would have provided_ Substitutes instead of serving in person, either in the' Militia or Army o f Reset-ire. He was very sorry that the Volunteers had been treated so lightly and improperly_ by as worthy a man as any in the kingdom, he meant the Right Hon. - Gentleman 'on' the - Bench below — him, ' (Mr. WINDHAM) who was very fond of theo.. ries - , and who 'studied more than • his judg ment ripened into execution. Mr. FOX said, he owned that he should not de liver what he bad to'say in the same way as he now thought himself compelled to do it, if it had not been fir what was said by his Hon. Friend who had spoken from the opposite side of the H lose, whom he did not now see in his place (Gen. MAITLAND) ; and also for what had been said by an Hon. and Gallant Officet behind him (Col. ETRub who . had- tqlled for something that was. vite eXttaorflinaty in 7 that }louse, and in thetSeooriiry, 'for *there had' been always Something like Party ever since there had been . any Public Discussion , in. its 13Otlif these Hon. Gentlemen had thrown out, that there had been endeavours to depreciate 'the Volunteers. df , ' , this Country, by those who had spoken, in the exercise of their right, or rather performance of, their duty in that House. He wished that theie Gentlinen would state what syllable had fallen from the Hon. Ofacer that had any such tendency—Let them quote the Syllable which had that tendency, more especially, should his Hon. Friend the General do this, since he himself complained of round' assertion without proof, and what was this but round assertion with out proof ? But the Hon. Gentleman behind him (Col. EYRE) aliought, that this Country would be safe indeed, - if all fiarties united with Government for the support of the Country instead of endeavours ing to overthrow the Ministers. He certainly took the distinction cOrreCtly and rightly, between the nature of the support which . the House ought to af ford, and that which he called for. But here let him ask,. at- what period of our history was the support given to Government more general than at the pre sent moment ? When did all descriptions of persons more cordially unite for the defence of the Country, and at what period did those who opposed the Mi nisters lend more aid to Government than at the pre sent moment, as they did by taking measures to stip • port the system which Ministers adopted I—did not his Hon. Friend, who sat next to him (Mr. GREY), give' a remarksble proof of that in his conduct in raising Volunteers If the House looked to the North of England, they would there find a Noble Friend of his making most surprizing exertions to support the Country, and even supporting Govern merit in the same manner as his Hon. Friend he had before alluded to : they would see that Noble Person making exertions, which none but a person of very ample fortune could do, but which exertions' were not the less admirable because he had the power to Make them, bringing up, at his 'own sole expence, isoo VolunteerS, - without creating any hurthen upon Government, except the expellee of providing them with muskets ; this was done by his Noble' Friend (the Duke of NORTHUMBERLAND) although there was bile little doubt that he did not think ta vourably' Of the present Ministers ; from the very highest to the lowest, all the people in this country had united in 'the support of Government, more - pe-- haps than had ever been the case at any other time. At the same time the Hon. Gentleman behind' him called upon the -House and all the peopleof the Coun try, to unite also in support of the present Admini stration :Alley had united all ranks and descriptions in support of Government,' because by their own mismanagernent they had brought the Country into such a situation of alarm and danger, that all des scriptions of persons flocked to the support of Government, without which they saw no way to support themselves, and 'it would always be so, for in proportion as Ministers brought the Country into danger, would the People support the Governments this wad necessary on the part of the People for self-preservationa Ministers had brought the Country into such a'crisis, that the. People saw every arm must be raised, every nerve and sinew braced for the common defence ; and as far as there was any m e rit in' promoting, or rather in creating that general diseosition in the People, the present Administration had certainly in an eminent degree. that merit. With respeE to his Honourable Friend opposite to him, after whom he rose immediately, but gave way to others, he owned he was a little surprized at the . tone and manner of his argument and expression. He must say again, what was certainly not new, that he felt himself bound to defend the freedom of debate in that' House ; and he could not help saying, that if the sort of language he' had heard to-night was to be used with 'Success in that House, there would be an end of the freedom of debate, for upon the subject of military affairs, none but a General Of. fiver would be permitted to speak ; so his Hon. Friend would have it, for he had said 'to the Hon. Officer near him (Colonel CRAWFORD) that he ought not to consider himself entitled • to lay down the law ; that although many of his opinions might be perfedly respeetable, yet he must give way to the grave sentiments of those who were before him in rank. This was not perfealy conformable 'to the former praftice of his Hon. Friend, fhr he re. meMbered'when that Hon. and gallant Officer was fresh from the scene of aCtion in India, he took upon himself the privilege of speaking very freely : of those who were not indeed his superiors in abili, ties, but very superior to him in rank ; he remem. bered his speaking of Gen. Medows, and many others of high rank and station, very freely, and claiming an unqualified licence to do so as a Member of that House; and he remembered that he supported his Honourable Friend in that princi. pie ; but now the language he had then used as, an accuser, he accused another for using, and with as much vehemence in the one as the other, for he was full as strenuous as a convert as he had been before he saw his error. But this principle of silence for those who were inferior in military rank with re sped to the conduit of the highest, would soon put an end to the freedom of Debate—and the reason whielfhis Hon. Friend gave for thus imposing upon all Officers inferior in rank to those whose conduct was in question, was not that he knew they had considered the thing in dispute, but because they must haVe considered it, and this sort of dodrine was to be opposed to the whole . of the Speech of the Honourable Officer (Col. CRAWFORD), a Speech full of good sense as any he had ever heard, and replete with information of the most useful kind, and deli vered in language easily understood by any capacity, although it should have no military knowledge.H; Having defended Col. CRAWFORD for some time, he proceededJO'ohServe upon the subject of the Bill now . bero' ; re'ile 'House. He said, it was idle to talk about the Volunteer System nor . having affected the Recriiiting of the Regular Army, the Army Of Re. serve, 'and' the raising of the Militia; for the fan was known to be- so, and il4& the . difficulties in raising the Army of ReServe Were' in ruinV.cases absolutely insuperable, for this the inen' had been ballotted for until at last there were mane left foe ballot. As to the Exemptions Of the Volursteers, if they were exempted froM the Army of Reserve and the Militia by the Bill cifisat Seat, they heed . . not feed themselves . obligea to Ministers thd cY eYnptioii; rt..4,VAI niattet of • pure.: actiderafi—the.til Was :no inrottion. of . eXempting..thent-'rhat There , was • no'idea any iyhe7e in, the. :Countsy that they should. be exempted so mach: to: the, contrary, -that subscriptions:had-been entprecl. in!”-forti-e pur.i `pose of.proviiiing.Substitutesioy she Voittateers, . .! they shoOld - happen to. be.ballatred for the or . the Army of Resertre.; .het him.ialf had, ben .a. scriber.. ,Theyrdid.not then v.l: the opinion of the-_.“. • GgNERAL ;'they thotsght'the cue w0u.,41::: be too plain, and thersiiii, , '4 4 let • the matter ret.t) for the present; weshall . bring ..in. a. Bilt that sh:,ll puzzle him ;"._ and they succeeded in that object completely; and - what was most, remarkable;: - .evety. opinion he gave was contrary' to the:wishes Majesty's Minister, as. we were assured by :beim% selves. Mr. Fox thew prcaeeded toAlbser - Ve'„ that the System of Volunteers 'WAS in iyseif de - leaivei and h a d been rendered' worse'bY the mode , in which, it had been cairied on. Intep.d . of the Volunteer Systems he should like an Armed . Peasantry,. - It wls true, that the Volunreers had received rhuthins-truaiutt; and it was . not their fault that they were not . npsre efficient - for the Defence of the Country ; the truth. was, that they had not been instriteted in that which . • they would be calied.uport to do, bat in many things• which they would not be called ution: to do, so that it was time lost and labour misapplied, It was.true- • that the Volunteers:were 400.000 in number, •but the Armed PeasantryN7ouh: be two millions. He said, it • was tvhimSical to• hear the. reasoning of some Gen., tlemen in• favour of the VOlunteer System. They first said that the 'Enemy was temly to! come in the month of July and AugUseltrst; hut that the number . of Volunteers raised deterfeil him. They now said that we must he prepared to Meetlhe Enemy, for they are coining tcyattrtainry. What reason'then was to he assigned for the tido' ? The only one char could be left fir these Gentlemen was, that the' Enetil.r staid until . the Volunteers here bad an opportunity Of - being drilled' and made. soldiers ; and' here he cen; nured Ministers most .severely for nor providing the' Volunteer's with muskets much sooner than they,did i • and took - occasion try observe 'that a great mass of th 6 Voltoteets had never yet fired with hall. He preferred an ArmcLiPeasantry Co' the Volunteer System upon this principle, • because . in the one case we had'an Arnica Notion, in the other we had av best but a partial armament. All modern .history taught us, and as to ancient history none- of it resembled the present . condition of this world ; but all modern history' . taught us that the great advantage which the tn.. vaded had over the Invader was, that the one Party had 'only a large powerful Army which'. might 'be opposed by another large powerful' Arniy;' - iiid' so they would 'be only equal ; but in the other case there was also an Armed Conn: . try, which • if properly armed and true to itself, could never be quite subdued : the very idea of an Army' in an Armed Country was terror 'to the Invader, for he could never be secure' of one inch but that on which he stood ; in every village he knew he had a foe, between two hedges he was afraid of being shot, so that the Invader might be said to be haunted in an ;armed country ;' and his conquests, however great, were never final while a mail was left: but the System of the VOltinteers did not convey this idea to the In.. vader : here again the article of Dress was import.; ant, for ' the Invader - knew that none were armed except those who were dressed like soldiers, so that where he saw a brown coat he' knew there could be no weapon ; where there was no weapon there could be no danger, and thus the whole terror of • the Invader was done away. He then expatiated on these and various other topics, to shew the de• frets of the Volunteer System, and censured the Condua-of Ministers as well with regard to the manner in which they had been raised, as to the ' manner they had been trained, and also'to the man.. ner in which they had been kept without arms, and renewed all his former objedions to the System it. self, wishing, however, to make it as 'little impel . .. perfect as possible.' He cdncluded with adverting to what had been said respeding the condo& of the Admiralty. He said he had the highest opinion of the Noble Lord at the head di that Board, and had no doubt but that he would be able to vindicate his conduct ; but at the' same time, as so many charges had been thrown out against the Admiralty, he thought it would be bet.. ter at once to institute an Inquiry, which would enable the House to make up its mind upon this Most important subjea. • Mr. FULL sat exolained.' Mr.-PITT said, that differing as he did from the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, in many points the Volunteers, .yet he had the sa tisfa a , r i e a s n Pal toh g agree with him in many of the propositions which he had laid down. There was no one sentiment advanced by the Hon Gent. to which he assented more cordially than in the necessity - of adopting some measures to give a degree of con sistency and permanence to our Defensive Force. It was undoubtedly true, that at present the great object} ought to be to direct our efforts to meet the imme diate danger with which the Country was threat. ened.; - nothing certainly ought to be negleaed in the first moment of alarm or danger, and all fu ture consideration, however important, ought to give way to the present necessity and immediate danger. But that having been provided for, they ought .not to hesitate one moment in adopting the most effectual measures for rendering our defensive system permanent, and of providing against a recur.. rence of danger in future times, ' if we should pre. vent the Enemy from effeding the Invasion thie year, and that should lead us into a false security, and encourage us to slacken our means of defence, it certainly would end in our total ruin. He was ! therefore happy to find the, opinion so strongly inculcated by' the Honourable Gentleman, that we ought 'not to be content with our present ex• ertions alone. It was perfedly true, as that Hon, Gentleman had stated, that although the flaw ral impulse of a brave and loyal people had led them to make the greatest and moat unparalleled exer. *ions, which had removed us from all immediate. danger, yet it was undoubtedly necessary' to adopt measures to guard against that' long, protraded, and liagering danger with which the enemy might threaten us. Because the effect of deterring .the Enemy from making his attempt; by.a •demonstra. titan of the fume' and Spirit of . the Country, might