The Sun. — London, England, 1832-05-15 00:00:00

n -e !sit it to you, and so destroy your own characters for cuttsistency, or you must reject and incur the utmost pos sible hazard to the country from the state of exciterre nt in which we have left men's minds." He bad no difficulty, then, in saying that feint , in possession of the Govern ment at such a crisis, the Noble Lords and Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite were not justified in abandoning tI e guidance of public affairs, anti leaving the King, the country, and the Legislature in the position in which they had just been placed—they should not have abandoned the Government for the sake of destroying the party opposed to then, in politics; neither should they have end, avottred to swamp the House of Lords for any such unworthy pur pot,. With respect to the conduct of the Duke of Wel lington, which had that night been made the subject of so much animadvert-don, it did, he confessed, ap pear to him, that the Duke of Wellington was per fectly justified in the course which he had taken— with the prospect before him of seeing the of Lords swamped, he could scarely have taken any other—and in the exercise of a sound discretion, and under the influence of an exalted patriotism, he took the commaeds of his Mejesty to form an Administration, :and theta at least avoided the evil of destroying the Hence f Lords. There was one truth, however, established .beyond any pdeaihility of diapetst, nann ly, that the 'present taovernment of the King thund nothing but a choice be tween two evi's. Ii Hon. Members belit ved, ass he did, that the Duke of Wellington was net influenced by any ' desire of place—(A laugh)—he knew how difficult it was t e reconcile all opinions and unite all voices—het believ ing ea he did that the Duke of Weliington as a pubic man, stood far above all mercenary considerations— above all motives out of a mere desire of place—they must feel that, in accepting office at the present moment, was making one of the greatest sacrifices whieh it wax in the power of any public man to make for the gnod of his country.—(Cheer* from the Tories, laugh ter among the Whigs.) Yes. be would repeat, that the sacrifices which that Noble Person made admitted of no limitation or qualification. That which he had done, • or was about to do, constituted tote of the has- st acts of which any man was ever guilty, or an act of the greatest magnanimity and public virtue—an act which, as it would surpass anything that our past history afforded, so it would eclipse the glories of future ace s —(Clieera from one side of the House, and great laughter at tf.e tither.) He would tepeat the expression, and appeal to all impartial men and to posterity, for the truth and justice of the sentiments which he thus conscientiously expressed, that the noblest act of his lime and distinguished life was the acceptance of office at the present crisis—a crisis so dangerous to the Constitution, and one which carried with it enough of difficulty. delicacy, and haiard, to deter all ordinary minds from grappling it ith it. Such were his sentiments of the conduct of the Duke of Weifingten, and if they were well founded, and the Noble Duke could not he proved to have been guilty of the basest and most disgraceful conduct a public man had ever fallen into, then he should deserve Ind receive the universal approbation of mankind, and more for that than for any act of his public life. Lord PALMERSTON—I should certainly not have risen nn this occasion to take any part in the pre sent debate, had I not been personally alluded to by the Right Hon. and Gallant Member for Perthshire. I have ten charged with changes of opinion upon great public questions. Against such charges Ido feel that no defence is necessary in this Hoese--(Cheera.) I have no diffi unity in saying, that I have changed my sentiments, and that I have done so from having become wiser. —(Cheers.) With respect to my own public cAr 4 uct, I should greatly regret being compelled to defend it upon any grounds that :night involve an accusation upon others —accusations which it would he no less painful to me to utter than it would be to the Right Hon. and Gallant Member himself to heir. It is known both to the House and the public, that now, +or the second time, I have refused office for the sake of preserving the free expression of my opinions, and freedom of action on political questions upon which I felt deeply interested ;—(Cheers)—and that is a fact which might have been known to the Right Hon. and Gallant Member. It might also have been known to him, that it has happened to ree, when out of office, to decline the service of the Crown, when I felt that in ac- cepting that service at the particular juncture I in roma the hazard of not being at liberty to assert my own sentiments, as I felt I ought. With respect to the con 'eluding part of the speech of the Right Hon. and Gallant - Member, in which he blames the late Administration for having abandoned office at a moment when it was pecu liarly- their duty to have remained in the service of the Monarch, that there was, he believed, not a man in the country who thought that they could, with any thing like - honour, have remained in power—no men of honour could have done so under the circumstances. We are told we have been guilty of a violation of the constitution, in the ad vice given to his Majesty to create a sufficient number of Peers to carry the Reform Bill—advice in which I fully participated. Now I deny altogether that the advice re ;-'erred to was any violation whatever of the Constitution ; though, at the same time, I am perfectly ready to admit, that it was advice which should only be given in extreme stales ; but what I contend for is, that that extreme case had arrived ; and I have no doubt that the whole country, as well as posterity, will ratify that decision. The majo rity in the House of Lords against the Bill was so large, that it was obviously impossible that we could have re mained masters of the measure. The Right lion. and Gallant Member opposite had stated a declaration made by my Noble Friend at the head of his Majesty's Govern ment as to the course which he intended to pursue in the event of the Bill having been read a second time in the House of Lords. His declaration was, after the second reading of the first Bill had been lost, that he would re main in office so long as there remained a rational prospect of carrying the measure—that pledge he certainly re• deemed, for he did not retire from office till all prospect of that sort had totally disappeared. For the purposes of the argument which has been c irried on upon the other side, it was said that the division in the House of Lords, which drove the late Administration from effiee, was a division upon a subject of no real importance; certainly, if it were no matter of moment, there might he something of force in the argument—if it depended upon a mere trifle of Legislative pedantry respecting the precedence of tire clause over another, then I confess I should not have been the man to complain of any matter of inibfference ; but I believe that it will be now universally acknowledged by all candid and impartial men, that the division in question was really one of importance, and of the highest importance, far here was a measure upon which the existence of the Ge vernment as a Government was staked, and suddenly we find ourselves in such a situation- that we lose all com mand or control over the measure, and we are outvoted by a large majority of the House of Lords. It is almost instructing the House upon first principles, to tell them that no Government could carry on the business of the country, if it do not possess the continence of both Houses of Parliament, and yet, -in order to answer the arguments froth time other aide, I am compelled to remind the House of th it tact. Really, it is almost too absurd to say that the question upon which the House of Lords divided the other night was not one involving an essential principle. They told us that they would proceed with enfranchise ment first, and why:—because we tlmiLk it may he possible that the necessity for disfranchisement may he greatly dinti ni4lied or altogether removed ; that at all events, a less amount of disfranchisement will suffice. Surely that in volves the very principle of the Bill—to alter the de tailed arrangement for such a purpose, and in such a man ner, was to alter its most important principle, for the very essence of tie Bill was the disfranchisement of the nomi nation boroughs; failing to carry the principle of dis franchisement, nothing remained for us but resignation-- We must have either abandoned the Bill or resigned our offices. We had no choice between these two.--(Herr.) Sir GEO.MURRAY said a few words in explanation, which, owing to the noise that prevailed both in the House and the galllery, it was impossible distinctly to hear ; but he was understood to say that the Noble Lord opposite had quite misconceived him—that he meant to convey no imputation whatever upon the conduct of the Noble Lord. S r THOMAS DENMAN was sure that every one wou , d bear ready testimony to the able and manly manner in which his Honourable and Learned Friend opposite had der cared his objections to the Bill when it was under dis. eussien in that House ; and he tva.s slso perfe.•tly ready to give his Honourable and Learned Friend full credit for the statement, that he himself in t..kiug office was making a sacrifice—certainly a large sacrifice of income ; but h. confessed it did not appear to him that similar sacrifices were to be made by others taking office, though the contrary W.s announced by one who in some sort appeared to re present the phantom Administration existing, or nois duppo,rd to exist—who came amongst them like the White Lady of Avenel, to make oracular and mysterious announcements. Mr. A. BARING said that lie had not spoken from authority—that he had had no communication with an Illustriumt Personage whatever upon the subject of the ne gotiations now pending. Sir T. DEN3IAN certainly so understood the Hon. Gentleman. He certainly conveyed to the Home that be had had no communication whaterer with his Majesty, hut that be had had some wttii the Duke of Wellington. Now that he certainly had considered as pretty high au. Shority. He seemed, however, but little inclined, then, to abide. by the statements that he had previously made, and he (Sir 1. Denman) could not help congratulating 'be Howe upon the candid and conciliating manager will& they were likely to have under the new Administration— one likely to put such a charitable and benignant construc tion upon the telt:duct of the Members of that House.— (Cheers.) He had been informed but a short time since that an Hon. Friend had described the Hon. Gentleman opposite is having spoken of him (Sir T. Denman) na a mub•courting Attorney General ; but, oh ! said the Hon. Gentleman opposite, that happened a long while ago, and he might have said something of the sort, hut it was really tr n hard to call him to account for it, after such a lapse of time ; hut that was not the only attack made upon him by the Hon. Member. He complained of that Hon. Member's making it a matter of accusation against tale Attorney-General, that he did not prosecute some atro cious libel upon somebody, though the alleged libel ap peared in a public paper for the first time on the morning of the day upon which he had given in his resignation.— (Loud and continued cheering.) Now, he would not ask whether that was generous or handsome ; but he would ask was it just ?—( Hear.) When the proper time came, if come it ever should, when he should be called upon to en ter on a defence of his conduct in that House, he should be prepared to demonstrate that it would have been most foolish to have engaged in such prosecutions as the Hon. Member recommended ; and that if they had been entered upon and proceeded with, they would have redounded nothing to the credit of those concerned, or to the benefit of the country. There was no one conversant with the administration of justice who did not feel perfectly con vinced that prosecutions were useless, unless whe❑ they happened to be in accordance with the state of public opinion. He believed that, upon the fullest review of his conduct, it would he found that he had prosecuted in every instance in which prosecution was expedient or sate ; and he referred to the special cotntnis•ions issued while he was in the service of the Crown as evidence of the principles by which his official conduct had been governed. It really seemed as if the Hon. Member thought that a libel and a❑ Attorney-General ought not to exist at the same moment. —(A laugh.) Much had been said on the subject of the new Government, but he really thought that had as little to do with the topics which the Hon. Gentleman opposite introduced—that he might say much of the debating had as little to do with the real matter in hand as had the debates that might at present he going en in the French Chamber of Deputies.—(Hear, hear.) In departing from the matter properly under consideration, lie regretted to think that some very indiscreet observations had been made—lie regretted to think that anything likely to pro duce irritation should at any time have been uttered—he ff regretted that any persor, should have been found too ready to exhibit the sword ; hut of this he felt perfectly assured, that there was not a Member of the late Government who would not willingly forego all chance of ever again being employed in the, service of the public for the sake of seeing th e great rneasme of Reform quietly and peaceably carried. (Ileae.) It had been made matter of accusation against the late Government, that they had used the King's name —yes, they had hoped that the King's name would have proved the means of union—would have proved " a tower of strength ;" but, they had not found it so, though clothed with full authority for its use. Without, however, enter ing any further into personal feelings, he should, were that the last moment of hie life, pray that men might take care of themselves, but that the House of Commons might ake care of the country and pass the Bill. If the Bill were tent down to them from the House of Lords unmuti late-i, the change of the Government was a matter of secondary consideration. The great object was to have the Bill passed with the shortest possible delay ; and were that object but once accomplished, we could not fail to be one of the most prosperous, great, happy, and powerful peop , e upon which the sun ever shone. Mr. A. BARING—The observation to which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman alludes was quoted by an Hon. Member as having been tittered by me more than twelve months ago. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman also says, that I have imputed blatne to him for net prosecuting those persons who have been libelling the Queen. Now, I brought no charge against the Hon. and Learned Gentle man. What I said was, that there was a general tendency to vilify and degrade persons in power; and amongst the rest the Royal Family, who formerly used to be under the especial protection of the law, but who now seem to have no one to defend them. Whether the Attorney• General ought to prosecute tinder such circumstances I will not say ; but I chiefly quoted it as a specimen of the altered state of the times. Mr. Alderman WAITHNIAN thought, that ifthe Duke of Wellington had accepted office for the purpose of car• ruing the Reform Bill, it was impossible to quote a stronger instance of political aunstacy.--(Cheers.) . The Hou•e of Commons, he trusted, would be on the alert to protect the people, and to baffle the wretched intrigues that were going on behind the curtain.—(Cheers.) Sir R. INGLIS was nearly inaudible in the gallery. lie was understood to say, that to public men character was of the first importance ; and as long as the character of public men stood high, the country to which they be longed had great and favourable resources i❑ their in- tegrity ; for which reason, to a certain extent, he agreed in the principles which had been laid down by the two Noble Lords on the opposite side. Fur himself, humble as he was, he trusted that he had always bore that in mind ; and he was sure that he could confidently state, that, though he had opposed the Reform Bill, he had done so entirely from princip!e, and not at all fro:n any enmity towards the authors of that measure.—(Hear, hear.) He was sorry that so much allusion had been made to the King ; and he thought that the House would do well to remember that the Sovereign could only be known through the acts of his Ministers ; and it was therefore very un just to undertake to pronounce upon the opinions of the Crown, when it was not even known who at this moment were ita responsible advisers. With respect to the Duke of Wellington, he certainly must say, that if that Noble Duke accepted place with the intention of giving his sane lion to Reform, he was loin t that which was wrong, and vastly out of keeping with all his former declaration on the subject.—(Cheers.) He would not take upon himself to say what tnight. be the motive—whether it was am bition, or whether it was anything else—but be it what it might, he thought that there were no considerations which, under such circumstances, could justify the Noble Duke in taking office—(Cheers)—for it was impossible chat there could be any doubt as to his sentiments after the protest and the speeches which he had made upon the subject.—(Loud cheers.) But still he thought that the House was somewhat prejudging the question, for it was still left untouched and unknown whether the Noble Duke had conceded this point or not.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Baronet concluded by making some 'comments on Lord Milton's expression relative to loyalty and devotion, requiring no one to yield to the caprice of any man, how ever high his station ; but it was impossible to catch the tenour of the Honensable Baronet's observations. Lord MILTON—The Hun. Baronet does not seem ex ' ac.ly to have understood what I said. My expressions were these : I hoped that there was in these realms no human being so high as to induce another to sacrifice to him, through loyalty or devotion, his own solemnly re corded opini.m.—(Cheers.) And I must say that I think the Hon. Baronet himseif has sanctioned by his speech every tittle of that sentiment.—(Cheers.) Sir 11. PEEL—I must say, that I have a strong feeling that the House has this evening engaged in a discussion which, for many reasons, is injudicious.—(Hear, hear.) We are not in possession of that information which is es sential for the purpose of forming a correct judgment on many auhjects which have in consequence been argued lay potliecally. Now, Sir, I take the liberty of suggesting to the House to consider the position in which the King of this country is placed. His Majesty has re cently accepted the resignation of those who were his con fidential servants. I can undertake to pronounce no opi nion as to the course which they have assumed, because no explanation has been given in detail of the circum stances under which their advice was offered, so as to ena ble me to form a satisfactory judgment on the course which they have pursued. I certainly infer that the cave is this, —that, in order to carry a certain measure through the other House of Parliament, the Ministers advised his Majesty to create a number of Peers. What that number sv.s- I know not. Some say, to an indefinite extent ; others have named 30, 40, 60, or 70 ; but at all events, to such an extent as would have proved fetal to the House of Lords.—(Cheers.) His Majesty declined to accede to that advice, and the constquence is, the King is now at- tempting to form another Administration. Now it appears in the rourse of these debates on this very day, that there is no one who ha, authority in this House to speak on the part of that Administration. The Hon. Member for Hertford, referring irregu'Arly, but perhaps necessarily, to what his taken place in another House, has told us that there a declaration WiS made to the effect, that another Administration was formed. If the Hun, Member him- self beard that statement, it is of course unlikely that there can be any mistake on the subject • but it certainly does seem strange that an Administration should be formed, and that there should he no one in this House to give any explanation on the subject.--( Hear, bear.) If, therefore, the lion. Member has only spoken from report, I should he inclined to think that report must be erroneous. the declaration alluded to was only to the effect that the King was occupied in attempting to form another Adrni. nistration, n ithout any explanation as to the principles upon which that Administration was to be formed, I put it to the House whether declarations of determined 6,350. lity to a hypothetical Administration are. not 3ornewh;t premature?—(Hear, hear.) Mr. tHiNCOMBE—In what I aid relative to wha' has taken place this evening in the House of Lords. I referred to what one of the reporters had taken down. The passage that was read to me was to this effect---that Lord Carnarvon had risen in his place to say that an Ad ministration was formed, except in some of its minor de 'ails ; after which he went on to move that the Order of the lley for the Committee on the Reform Bill should be paoponed till Thursday, thereby evincing that that Bill had now got into other hands. Sir R. PEEL—The Noble Paymaster of the Fortes thought prop e r to refer to me with respeet to the course I might pursue at this juncture. Now I will tell the Noble Lord fairly, that I do not think that prudence of respect to the House requires me to make any answer to his observations on the present occasion. I think that the Noble Lord's reference to me was entirely unnecessary ; and I will tell the Noble Lord further, that some time ago, when office was not within my reach, I stated that it was no object to me: now that it is within my reach, will again repeat that observation ; so that it will he seen that I claim no credit for any supposed sacrifice.—( Hear. hear ) If the Noble Lord's inference is correct—that I feel unable to enter into the service of the Crown—l will at all events add this to it—that I bitterly regret that, in the situation in which his Majesty is now placed, I am not able to accept office ; and that the greatest regret that attends my refusal of office is the possibility of its afford ing, an opportunity for sarcasm being painted by contrast against those weo feel themselves able to join the new Ad ministration.—(Cheers from the Ministerial side.) What ever course my Noble Friend (the Duke of Wellington) may pursue—whether or no I may be able to pursue that course too—this I will say, that I never felt a more perfect confidence of anything in my li'e than that course (be it what it may) will be dictated by the highest courage and the _purest sense of honour that ever influenced the actions of any public man, either in accepting or in retiring from of ee.--( Hear, hear.) Loral JOHN RUSSELL—I can assure the Right Hon. Baronet in what I said I had no intention of casting any im putat:on on him whatever. On the contrary, it was my sincere belief, when addressing the House, that the Right Hon. Baronet was not going to accept office ; and, there fore, the words that I used could not be intended as any reproach to him. I conceive that the Right Hiatt. Bert. is much too careful of his public fame to accept office under present circumstances.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME—Sir. I wish to put a question to you, which seems to me of no little importance. I wish to ask you, Sir, whether the Address of this House has been pre sented to the King ; and if any answer whatever to th a t Address has been made ? Four days have now elapsed since the Address was voted. The House, it appears, knows nothing of the matter ; and it will he extremely satisfactory if you, Sir, are able to give us any information of any answer that may be expected. The SPEAKER.—The only explanation that I am able to offer is, that the Address was transmitted, and that it has come to the hands of the King's establishment, into whose hands such Addresses are usually delivered, for the purpose of being presented. The reason for their not be ing any :newer to that Address at the present moment I can only guess at like the Hen. Member, or any other gentlemen. It may he that the King feels that, not having responsible Ministers, it is better to delay his an swer. For any certain reason, however, the Hon. Mem ber must not ask me; for I do not know mote about the matter than any other Member of this House. I only know that the Address was sent to his Majesty's household —that it is in the hands of tue King—or that at least he is apprized of it. Mr. HUME—Am Ito understand that the address on the 10th of May is not yet in the hands of the King ? The SPEAKER—The Hon. Member must he aware that I am utterly unable to answer that question ; and if he draws the inference that I mean so and so, I beg to in'oran him that I meant nothing but to assure him and the House that the address was regularly conveyed in the usual manner—that I have no doubt that it is in the proper channel—and that I presumed the reason for there being no answer yet, was the difficulty that there is as to the channel through which that answer is to he conveyed. The Earl of BELFAST said a few words, which were very indistinctly heard. His Lordship was understood to confirm the statement of the Speaker. The question was then put, ‘• That the petition be brought up."—Motion agreed to. The next question way, " That the petition he read. On which Lord EBRINGTON rose—After the allusion that has been made to me personally in the course of this discus sion, I trust that I may be permitted to trouble the House with a very few words. The Right Hon. and Gallant Officer who spoke early in the debate, and who I am sorry not now to see in his place.—(Here Sir H. H irdinge, to whom the Noble Lord was alluding, rtsume4 his seat.) The Right Hon. and Gallant Officer has charged me with haying made an attack on the Duke of Wellington for a breach of public morality. I beg, however, to say, that I only put an hypothetical case ; and upon that case I stated, as I now state, that if it is true and correct, I can apply no milder term to the Duke's conduct. The Noble Duke's friends ate under a mistake if they suppose that there is anything in his great name, in his high situation, or even in his eminent services—which no one is more ready gratefully to acknowledge than myself—l say the Noble Duke's friends are touch mistaken if they suppose that there is anything in these circumstances which can screen his character, as a public man, from undergoing the samein vestigation, from being subject to the same discussion, from being judged on the same principles, and from being de cided upon on the same ground+ with those of every other public man in this country.—(Cheers.) Sir, it is with this freedom and in this manner that I shall always assert my right as an independent Member of Parliament.— (Hear, hear.) I trust that I shall always do so with the iespect that is due to this House, and in language be coming to myself as a gentleman ; and, indeed, I trust that I am not in the habit of bringing any charge against my political opponents in any other language, notwith standing what the Hon. Member fur Thetford has been pleased to lay to my charge. That Hon. Gentleman has thought proper to read me a lesson with respect to my sup posed want of common decency, for such, I think, were the words that he presumed to apply to me. Sir, I will not bandy such terms backwards and forwards with the Honourable Gentleman, but be must allow me to say, that if there is any one in this House to whom I should he dis posed to apply such language, it would be, to him, rising this night, as he has done, to make a tardy defence of po litical inconsistency on the part of himself or others, when I have heard him, time after time, in this House, raking up speeches made ten or twenty years ago, together with extracts from pamphlets ; and, on the strength of these, applyin g to IT)) , Noble Friend terms of vituperation, which until this Reform Bill was introduced, I never heard ap plied by anybody, in the greatest heat of political party, to any Minister of the Crown. Gentlemen seem this evening to have argued as if there was no alternative to i e adopted by the Noble Duke, except either admitting a forced creation of Peers by the King, or accepting the Government of the couutry and dragging the Lords to the passing of the Bill. But, Sir, is there no third course ? —(Loud cheering.) Is it absolutely necessary thaw those who have so deeply pled4ed themselves against the Bill, should now be compelled to eat their words?—(Hear, hear.) I wish that the Right Honourable Baronet, or any person not liable to any imputivions, would show how it can be settled. If the Noble Duke himself could stand up and say that the impossibility he finds to conduct the affairs of the country would make him use all his influence among his friends t 3 pass the measure, he would succeed, no doubt, in putting an end to further discussion.— (Hear, hear.) I will not say when that should be done, or when it would come toe late. If a course of that de scription had been adopted within the last few days, even within the last forty-eight hours, much peril would have been avoided to the country. The character of the Noble Duke would have stood a great deal higher, and he wool., have entitled himself to the lasting gratitude of the coun try. At the same time the character and conduct of the House of Lords would not be subject, as under other circumstances they would, to lasting execration. Mr. BARING—I hope the House will excuse me foi again obtruding myself upon its notice, after what has fallen from the .Noble Lord. I can assure the Noble Lord and the Honourable Attorney. General that the look and tone which it had pleased them to assume—the taunts they have thrown out—(Cliters)— ,shall not make me swerve from my opinion, or prevent ere from fearlessly discharging my duty in this House.— (Hear.) The Noble Lind—but be said so many thing that I hardly recollect what 1 should first reply to.— (Some Hon. Member whispered Mr. Baring.) y ea , it the Noble Lord, getting up with a high hand, using ex pressions in die course of tie discussion implying that I am disentitled to the ordinary courtesy of the House—it :he Noble Lord chooses to make me the butt to that sort of expressions, I can only tell the Noble Lord that I hold them in otter contempt.—(Cheers.) From the time I have been in the House, I am sure that my reputation will not suffer from any such personal observations on account of a d i ff erence o f o pinion.— (Cheers.) Wi t h t h e l eave of the House, I will say a little on th e quest i on notwith standing. The objections I made to the course lately adopted, is the same as that stated by my Right Hon. Friend (Sir R. Peel), viz., that the subject is not yet ripe for discussion. Respecting the conduct of the late Go- --- vernment, I ;avow that my opinions are made up ; but the House has no evidence; it cannot know whom the Crowi ' has surplused to defend it. It is premature then to entert ii, I the subject at present ; but whatever situation I may stand in towards the House, when it can be fairly discussed, I shot fearlessly state my opinion. As to what the Hon. Gentle man said about my inconsistency, or the inconsistency-of a much greater man—for the Duke of Wellington, however touch some people might now scoff at him, had a great debt of gratitude owing to him by the country—l must say that neither he nor I have altered our opinions. We do not now say that the Reform Bill, which we described as a had Bill, is a good Bid. Ido not hold any such opinion, and we—(A Isugh)—have not changed. lam confident that we cannot be accused of inconsistency. The case stands thus :—ln the opinion of the King, the Crowh feels itself forced to feel certain scruples, and these scruples will not allow him to do what is desired of him. It will not be said that these scruples, at least, are not reasonable ' scruples. The Noble Lord at the head of the Ministry stated himself repeatedly that the measure, about which the Crown has scruples, lie should take with reluctant— no, that was a weak term—but with the greatest repug nance. If that were felt by the Noble Earl—and no man doubted his integrity—surely the scruples of the Crown were entitled to some respect.—(Hear, hear.) I know that, under whatevsr circumstances, the n one of the Crawn arid of the King is introduced in this House, it is unconstitutional ; hut, at present, it was impossible to do otherwise. The Crown had no confidential advisers in the House to make known its resolutions. A conflict had taken place between the Crown and its confidential ad visers, and, therefore, at present, the King had no confi dential advisers. The King did not choose to (moldy with the advice his servants had given, and the Mini-tors had resigned. I ask the House to consider what it the si tuation of the King when his Ministers have resigned? These scruples &serve some respect, and when the House recollected the persecution which those were exposed to nut of doors and in th it House who entertained these scruples, it was extraordinary that any body should be found to give advice to the Crown. The act was not done under ordinary circumstances, for every man must be aware of the excessive excitement which pervades the country. It might be fairly supposed that no man would to to the Sovereign, but that the Sovereign would call upon sonic person to give him advice in the dilemma in which he is placed. I suppose Ido not know what passed, but I suppose that the King might have called for same person, and might have said to hint, " Since I found that the Government could not be other wise carried no, I made a pledge to my people, which I will not give up, but at the same I am so placed, that I cannot admit, according to the Constitution, that the other branch of the Lecislature should be forced to agree with the Commons unless some very strong case should arise, and 1 do not sse that any case has yet arisen in which I can fairly be called on to interfere." Suppose the Duke of Wellington was the person so called upon— he says, " I cannot help myself, I do not admit the prin ciples of this Bill, but sin I therefore, as a consequence of that, to treat the King's commands with neglect, and refuse to pass the Bill ; or am I to advise him to pass the Bill, and support the King, in advising what all admit to be the greatest violence to the Constitution ?' I doubt not but the Noble Duke might have come to some such conclusion ; and what man can doubt the honesty and-in tegrity of the Noble Duke, or throw any suspicions on his consistency ? Ido not, any more than I doubt that the Noble Duke possesses much of that courage which enables a man to resist taunts and sneers and sarcasms.— (Cheers and laughter.) Against such sneers and sarcasms I shall support my opinion ; and I have no doubt that the Noble Duke would have courage to meet such sarcasms, and support the King in that conflict in which he is in volved, because he does not choose to endanger the Constitution by committing a fatal violence on one part of it. That is, I take it, an honest view; and I shall say sincerely, that the Noble Duke, with out changing his mind—not seeing any thing is the Bill to approve of, but seeing the state of excitement in the country—seeing the (linger to which it might lead, supposing nothing else would end it—might resolve to stand by the King in this dilemma, and expose himself to all the difficulties of the situation, for the purpose of protecting his Sovereign. That appears to me to have been the course, and that the Noble Duke would not in to! fere to give his advice to the King till the King sent for hint. 1 will say one word as to the necessity of such a resolution as was come to by his Majesty's Ministers. If the Ministers of the Croon had waited, they might have a<cer uinefi, in 48 hours atter the Peers had given their vote, whether it is-as the intention of the Peers by that vote to defeat the Bill, or whether they meant to vote for the whole disfranchisement of Schedule A. Upwards of one half of the Peers who voted against the Ministers stated their intention of voting for Schedule A. Now Schedule A was the key-stone of the Bill ; and, when that was the case, could the King not say, " the time is not arrived when I can be called on to exercise my prerogative: do not conic to me with a vague report of what the Peels may do ; put their intentions to the test—wait 48 hours, and see if they will vote for Schedule A. " It should he recollected that the Bill was safe in the Ministers' hands after the vote of the Peers. It could always be reinstated if injured, and it was the same as if the Bill were actually in danger. I shill state ftirly that I have had many opportunities of knowing the opinions of the Opposition Peer , , and I shall mention what I know of their opinion of Schedule A. One of those Peers, who had a principal hand in uinag in.; the opposition to the Bill, told me, that he had no doubt that the Peers would pass the whole of Schedule A. " My opinion is (said he) alter making my calculation—l _.• . . mention no names — m y op i n i on i s , t h at there will not be twenty votes against Schedule A."--(Hear.) That w.is before the question between the King and his Ministers had become the subject of public notice; and it was told me by one of the Noble Lords who was undertaking the opposition to the Bill. The measure then proposed by the Ministers was only to be resorted tai in extreme cases; but there were no circumstances to justify such a measure, and the Ministers would not wait forty-eight Lours to put to the test the opinion, of the Peers. The Noble Lora said, he feared that there was na hop of accommodating these differences. I have bad long experience in this House, and I never once saw a care in which tl e Consti tution was exposed to hazard, when the whole body of the landed gentlemen did not interfere aa mediators, arid bring out some understanding on the matter. The Noble Lord says, or at least his words, I think, bear that construction, that he should be glad if anything could be done to give an approach even to such a proposal ; and that if the Peers would vote schedule A, that [night induce the Ministers of the Crown to relax in their determination, and not to ad vise that which they only thought a less evil than not risk ing the measure. I should think myself, that if Lord Grey goes hack to the King, and stating his unwillingness to employ those means which lie had already admitted he en tertained a great repugnance to perform, and stating that he expected, with great probability, that the Lords would not differ from him, except as to the details of the Bill, if Lord Grey would so state to the Kiog, I see no diffi culty of the Ministers again taking their places.—(Hear, hear.) I do not see any objection to this.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) It is with entire sincerity that I state this. I say that I wish not to interfere in any Admiois tration, and particularly in an Administration forme,: under the very difficult circumstances in which the country is now placed. To 11/C, who never wished fur public life, it would be a fatal thing, and nothing but the most urgent necessity should ever tempt me to take office in any shape. The Honourable Gentlemen whom I followed for .25 years, know that I never asked them for any place whatever.—(Hear, bear.) I shall nor, therefore, be thought a person ready to do anything rash or base for the purpose of obtaining place.--(Hear.) I shall state, that it would be with the very greatest re luctance that I should undertake any office, and that re luctance, great at any time, must be doubly great at un dertaking it when I know, instead of having the House of Commons at my command, what opposition I should meet with, making it a place of the greatest difficulty. At the same time, feeling the strength of my cause—feeling, in fact, that I ought nut to abandon the King—there is no peril, no danger, no difficulty, I would not encounter, and nothing I would not undertake, which I thought con scientiously it was my duty, as an honest man, to under take.—(Cheers.) But, as I said before, it would be much for the good of the country if the present Adminiatration were not dissolved. That they should quit office would be one of the greatest calamities passible. When the Bill should be pussed—(cheers)—which has excited so many .-xpectations in the country—(hear, hear) —it was ex• h ected, as the of Kent, ash e leaned r e it blessings. It would be very unfortunate for the Government which should be in office, when the expects- Icitt it tra would m the lead canvass t s o s some n going for t he coun t y ~ tionl of the great advantages raised by this Bill—the ex tretue anticipitions—shall be disappointed.---(Hear.)—_ The public will then gay, that if the Reformed Govern• uncut had remained in, something more would have been g iven to us.—(Hear, from Mr. Hunt.) It I were l oo ki ng o public life—and I am looking only to retirement -.sh od i t ffwere looking to public life, the best thing I should de. sire ivonld be, to form part of an Administration to suc ceed the present Ministers.—(Hear, bear.) We have heard much of the blessings to be derived from this Bill. But when the disappointment comes, that will giv e any succeeding Administration which may want it any east triumph ; if any man—for example, my Right Hot. Friend (Sir R. Perl)—who finds it as difficult to keep out of office as ordinary persons find it to thrust themselves in, were ever so desirous of power, and poesisse4 even of El grain of common @ease, he could not wish to get into place at this crisis. I shall state, that individuals might with advantage try to diminish the breach between the Crown and its Ministers ; and I am not without hopes, from what fell from the Noble Lord, that some communi cation would be made to his Majesty, that his Majesty might be relieved from that which he go much deprecated, and which was known by one word —swamping the Peers. It is not possible to deny that the Bill rney pasts that schedule A may receive the assent of tie Peers ; :int! if the Peers do not refuse to pass schedule A. there is nothing to justify the Ministers in giving up. I find nsy. self in a peculiar situation, and I make this statement ti the House with perfect sincerity ; and if I could assist it bringing about a settlement without any injury to the Constitution, I can assure the House it would be one 0f the happiest moments of my life.—(Cheers.) Lord EBRINGTON said a few words, which were no audible in the gallery. Sir FRANCIS BCRDETT had heard with grea' set:sfaction what had fallen front the Hon. Gentleman. He acknowledged that the Hon. Gentleman had given at. opinion to which he attached great weight, and that what he said was the usual mods of proceeding under ordinary circumstances. Nobody felt more strongly than he die those unpleasant circumstances; hut that they had arrived was not the fault in the lest of his Majesty's Ministers. They were placed in a situation in which he must say they could do no otherwise. Of all the duties of public men, none was more imperative than that of preserving theit character and honour, for, without preserving them, they could not be of service to the public. He did not doubt his Majesty's good intentions nor the candour of the Iteya mind, neither did he doubt that his Majesty was placer; in circumstances of exceeding difficulty ; and not doubting either thecandour of the Royal mind, nor the difficulty of th e Royal situation, he was sure, if his Majesty found it difficult to decide, he must also be sensible of the difficult circum stances of his Ministers; and he could not be astonished that they should have resigned, nor could he find in their having done so any cause of complaint. Under these circumstances, he trusted and hoped that means would be found of procuring the success of that B 11, with out any useless discussion, when, under the circum stances of the country, its final suceess was inevi table. lie could not see anything which should destroy his hopes. The Royal mind was open to reason. The King had no private views ; he never had any. He had always said to his Ministers, do what you think right, without considering ;do what is for the good of the country, and let that be your only guide. The King wished nothing but the prosperity of the people ; and only thought how their benefit might he promoted. Ha was sorry to see such a Sovereign deprived, by a misapprehension, of tie affections of his people, to which he was altogether entitle!. The Hon. Gentleman, who had just sit down, said that the Duke of Wellington con sidered himself called upon. at the sacrifice of mime part of his high character, in the dilemma in which the country was placed, to give some advice required by his regard fur the public safety, which he otherwise did not approve of. That Noble Duke was sacitorts for the public eyed. It, then, there were other persons of a different disposition, low and factious intriguers, who had interfered between the nation and the Crown, the nation would know how to treat them. They were not answerable for the come. quences, for they were unknown. Men owed their fit st allegiance to themselves, and it was impossible for Lord Grey to submit to have his Bill taken out of his hands by the House of Lords without resigning, and preserve that high sense of honour which was due to hirmelf. What ever might be said of the factious band of the House of Lords,—(Order, and Cheers,)—they, it must be allowed, it t:sey were not factious, were the most short-sighted men that ever existed, to risk the tranquillity of the country, and everything that ought to be dear to them, in older to preserve their own peculiar privileges, which were hostile to the welfare of the people.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman said, that there was no doubt that the Lords would have adopted schedule A; and the lion. Gentleman said, very properly, that it was one of the principles of the Bill, The Right Hon. Baronet, too (Sir R. Peel, had admitted that it was one of the principles of the Bill ; and if th e L ords would have consented to that, as was stated, how easily might all these difficulties have been avoided. Let it, however, be remembered, that the Duke of Wellington concurred in the vote for post. poning schedule A ; and, if he were now convinced that the Bill must be passed, lie had shown, at least, such a want of foresight, as did not entitle him to claim to direct the councils of the country, under the present difficult circumstances. It the Duke of Wellington were Prime Minister, it would not he sufficient to say that he would pass the Ihil—an investigation must take place into all the circumstances which had occurred. He looked upon the Duke of Wellington as answerable from his accession to office, and responsible for all the consequences which might follow.—(No, no, and laughter.) His Majesty could take no step by himself and unadvised. His Majesty did nothing Without the advice of his Ministers. The Sovereign was not responsible, but his public servants were responsible for the consequences of every change. The Noble Lord (Ebrington) had justly said that the conduct of the Lords in not passing the Bill had caused great inconvenience—in his opinion they hail risked the safety an d tranquillity of the country. These were the sentiment s o f t h e whole nation ; there was hardly one who was not satisfied t h at the Lords had by their conduct stopped the progres s o f a l i public business, and interrupted the whole course of legisla tion. He had always maintained the propriety of th a t o l d portion of issuingnofthe writsto someprero gativ es,which gav we eh r i Majesty th e power es increasing in importance, and of not issuing writs to places which had f a ll en into decay. He believed that portion of the Prerogative t o have been highly necessary; and if it had been continued in exercise, he was confident the two Houses of Parliament would not h ave got into that state in which they now found themselves. That power was, however, now denied to the Crown ; and he saw much to regret in the denial. He was to he again s t it s exer cise, not aware that it wonld be an illegal exe rc i se of the prero. gative. He knew not the Act or Statute i n wh i ch the in _ terdiction was to be found ; but s up posing h o e ne wo c u a l u d se aosrk,anointhewr,iw way the general were they to escape from a difficulty such as th a t i n which they now found themselves; unless by having recourse to the old prerogative of creating P eers ? If no other feelingt, then, from n, wa y could be found, then he would maintain that the prero gative would be justly and properly exercised in the r rcation of new Peers, rather than run the risk of thrown g the country into confusion.—(Hear.) There was one thing ct nnected with the present position of affairs to which he wis red shortly to allude. A Judge, one of the highest in the land, a Criminal Judge of the most eminent station, had appeared on all occa sions as a violent politician.—(Hear.) He would contend that a Judge, and still more a Criminal Judge, should hold himself utterly cut off' from politics, and front the conflicts of party. He would suppose this Noble person sitting on the Bench ad ministering justice ; he would suppose that a stranger entered the Noble Lord's Court in the morning, and that he saw much reason to admire the calm dignity and self-possession with which the Noble Baron dispensed justice to the suitors. What, he would ask, would that same stranger have said had he seen the Noble Baron in the evening ?—(Hear.) How much sur prised would he not have been to see the Noble raron turned into a political partisan, and heading, in the House of Lords, a violent and virulent faction ?—(Hear.) Lord STORMONT rose, amid some confusion and cries of " Order," and" Bar," to remind the lion. Baronet that he was outstepping the ordinary rules of debate. He would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman in the Chair whether the mention of the Members of the other House had not, in all cases, been held sacred ? He would put it to the Right Hon. Gentleman whe ther such a use of the word faction was not unparliamentary in that House, and whether it had not always been the wish, as well as the practice, of Us Members to avoid applying to the Members of the other House expressions which they would re. gard as a violation of privilege, if applied to the Members of the Commons The SPEAKER, thus called on, said, that if the Hon. Baro. net was putting a case hypothetically, and adhered to his hypo_ thesis, he could not be pronounced out of order ; but it certainly woul liable—(Cheers; — and b oesfe , pc i neK e vo r e dEn iy ist. t o draw nt e interrupted pte picturethe of i oi what .: t a h r e oo Hon. Baronet believed to have occurred. The lion. Baronet was out of Si whic y Th order, in his opinion, if he applied to the Members of the other House expressions t which he 3, e w m o b u e l not of have bot h Houses te c 3 i ter i : s ee t a e ti n elh: t iau l t v ao i llb t li the courtesies ,td,hi. (s cß:tde eTeR: h Ta e Tn} H disea o h i u e,ay s ra e hisep i wem f aat applied ese:neoyt h aet a o karis t en h gon e foMembers of a,i disease, sset of thef e,:n ty to thing bel rs lhaattedhtehheaodrdp permitted of: t h e : t House he e. i p n troes a alluding e the warmth of debate; but it by no means followed, sh u e n rd i v io ev t d i i c ot ed, because he believed them cause he had allowed the disorderly expressions iogwinedailythtaotpbase: ae been t utteredp pass s smiin o a n n o d tie n ed oth o in n g ce c , o t l h d a d t be he m w l as ermaed t o o estori c v o te n h, t aw i n n u u to ! to do so ever after. — of (Hear, hear.) To ascribe bag; a ttf: t iepon a i enha l da l . enki t rds i hmoaci same eaeselah,l,vd: Membersshd onc e e dro r i d tpat e dtso r ic l the other House as the ne j: s he h uph o a deo d b g, been, nk e ee e.npo arieui ,a h idlt e crlwe c t t o : tsul because yma o ,u t ais a nz t o hho i e d ei ebe n rae t tletiirreo,fivfeil:dgdi debate, the words to have been they y should derive an importance from being noticed, which would not otherwise attach to them.—(Hear, hear.) Sir F. BURDETT resumed, and observed, that he had been anxious to avoid all appearance of warmth on the occasion. lie was merely speaking of that which he thought he had a right, nay, that it was his duty to mention—the conduct of a —(Hear, herr.) He was speaking, as it was his duty to do, of the effect of intrigues, he knew not by whom carried on, and among the other misfortunes of their situation, he had . alluded to a Judge. He did not call hini the leader of a faction, but the leader of a party—the maker and unmaker of Admi nistrations—a man who was seen every where—(Hear, hear, and a laugh)—who seemed to have tinder his legal robes the motley dress of a harlequin — (hear, hear, and tt laugh)— a man, in short, who was every thing and every person—who seemed to be all mankind's epitome—(A laugh)—and who was in expectance, by his manoeuvres, of reaching the very highest office in the. State. Tbis is what he had been speaking of as an vent to be deplored.—(Hear, hear.) Thee seemed, , . however, to be a rumour, a sort of miscreatecl rumour-14W, and a laugh;—that an Administration under such circum stances and auspices could not be formed, and if anything w as to happen in the present state of the country, such was the condition to which they were reduced, that it was hard to know to WllOlll, in such a case, the King was to apply. This, then, was the situation to which they were reduced by the urn fortunate opposition to the Bill. Those who had been thus far so successful seemed, however, to he frightened at their own work. He might say, in the language of the Poet— '. For 'tis the sport to hate the engineer Hoist with his own petar"— (Cheers)—and it should rejoice all those who were friendly to Reform to see its opponents undone by the fulfilment of their wishes.--(Hear, hear.) The question now, however, was, not what had been done, hut what was to be done. He wished to see how the affairs of the country could be retrieved. That was, in his opinion, by placing the Government of the country again in the hands in which it could be placed so as to obtain the con fidence of the country, and by passing the Reform Bill, the de lay or refusal of which had been the cause of all their difficul ties. How that was to be brought about he did not know, but he had full reliance on the moderation and wisdom of the peo ple.—(Cheers.) This, however, he also knew, that the spirit of the people of England was so thoroughly roused that there was no hope of appeasing them save by just and reasonable conces sion ; and he saw no way in which that could be done unless by restoring to their places those holiest Ministers who had been separated, lie trusted not disunited, from the Crown (with out complaint, at least, on the side of those Ministers,) By placing them in their former situation he hoped to see a speedy and a peaceable settlement of all dissensions.—(Hear, hear, hear.) A Noble Lord, according to the Member for Thetford Baring) had declared that the Lords would have passed oche dole A without change or amendment. That might be so ; but then their Lordships took good care not to let Lord Grey into that secret, and therefore his Lordship had no course left , except that which he had adopted. He agreed, indeed, with the Noble Earl, that it was the main and fundamental principle of Ihe Bill, and that after the declaration of- the Noble and Learned Lord, (Lyndhurst) in moving the Amendment, that he wished to enfranchise first, and to disfranchise only accord. ing to the extent to which it might be found necessary after wards, he thought the Noble Earl was justified in considering the division as deciding the consent to the principle of the Bill. He thought it would become the Duke of Wellington much more if, instead of getting together a Cabinet to carry the same Bill, and then, as it was reported, resigning immediately afterwards, he used his influence with the House of Peers to in. duce them to pass the Bill under the auspices of the Minister who had first proposed it to them. If he did so, he would have the gratification of seeing the Constitution again an object of veneration to the people, and the Monarch restored to the affec tions of his subjects. Mr. HUME never addressed the House under circumstances of so much alarm and apprehension, speaking both politically and commercially. He confessed, therefore, he had heard with the greatest pleasure the dawn even of a chance of recon ciliation in the present agitated state of the country.--(Hear.) He thought there could not be a greater blessing to _the coun try than such a termination, and that the man who would suc ceed in bringing it about and calming the existing excitement, would deserve the thanks and gratitude of the people. He was anxious to avoid saying one word which could prevent such a consummation, or produce any angry feeling ; and of this he was assured, that Lord Grey and his late colleagues had the in. terests of the country too much at heart to stand much on ceres mony, if they saw a probability of their being again restored to full confidence as the advisers of his Majesty. He would not advert to the speculation of the Duke of Wellington with respect to the Bill'. He would not look back at the past, he would look only at the present, and availing himself of what had fallen from the Member for Thetford, he would say, that if his Majesty wished again to stand well with hie people, he would not hesitate to receive his late Ministers to his Conn cils.—(Hear.) He trusted, therefore, there would be no want of the means for the accomplishment of this most desira ble end, and he would suggest that the House should at once adjourn, and leave matters as they stood now to their own operation—(Hear.` Every post from the country was freighted with complaints and remonstrances, and unpleasant statements. He wished much that the next post would convey to the country the tidings of an alteration of all that had been lately done, and the sentiments of the 2so Members, which he hoped he spoke with respect to this matter.—(Hear.) Then if he spoke their sentiments, and if, as he hoped, the Member for Thetford spoke the sentiments of his party, he thought it would be the best way to adjourn the House, after the petition was disposed of, and leave those more intimately connected with the ques tion to adopt such measures, under their conciliatory feelings, as would put an end to all the evils and mishaps of their situa tion, and they t h , I e e n a ' t e t nd oe a .— void H t e h a e r.) most frightful evils with which lord MORPETH rose to second an d su p por t thi s recorn . t h mendation. Ile was confident it would have the effect of ir resting the course of evils, and to restore that just confidence in the Crown and the Government, which but a week ago they so fully possessed. All who lent themselves to this great work would deserve the blessings of their country. Mr. LABOUCHEREwouIdadd his voice to the sarrerecom mendation. There was no reflecting man who would not hear with joy of the glimmering of a hope of some termination to that state of things which all viewed with apprehension. Public P i men should, under ouch circumstances, bury all animosities, for the purpose of enabling Earl Grey to carry that Bill which all were now agreed should be carried, and which, if carried by any other hands, would not, in all probability, be received as a measure of peace and conciliation, which, by God's blessing. it was hoped it would have been ; but, on the contrary, would • lead to fresh animosities, and a restless desire of new changes, which every ft lend of his country must contemplate with the greatest dread. He trusted, therefore, that the independent Members of that House would use their just influence ; and that those who had been Ministers, and those who expected to be Ministers, would, under the circumstances, abandon their intentions, and save the country from the three perils which threaten it ; first, that the Reform Bill would nut prove satis factory to the people; next, that the character of all public men might escape the stain which would fall on it if those who had opposed the Bill now carried it into a law ; and lastly, that the character of the Sovereign might not any longer suffer in the opinions of his people. The course now recommended _ . . would restore that Sovereign to their affbetions, which he be• lieved none ever better deserved, and every true friend to the Monarchy must desire to see that restoration take place as speedily as possible.—(Hear. hear.) Lord ALTHORP—In consequence of what had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, as well as from the Mem bers for Yorkshire and Middlesex (Morpeth and Hume), wished to recall the attention of those Hon. Members and of the House, who seemed to indulge in so many anticipations of good, to the real state of the question. Those who indulged in anticipations of the possibility of a compromise between par ties should recollect what is the real state of public affairs. At the present moment, as they had heard that night from a Right Hon. Gentleman, doubtless well informed on the subject, the new Administration was completely formed in all its most essen tial points. The proposition, as far as he understood it, was, that in consequence of the discussions which had taken place in that House, it is to be expected that some arrangement may take place, and that the House of Lords will withdraw their opposition to the Bill. Now in his humble opinion there was nothing more unlikly. Ile thought it was as unlikely 3 thing as any he had ever heard, that the Lords would with draw their opposition to the Bill 33 it now stood, and that Hon. Gentlemen were indulging in unfounded expectations : he be lieved the Reform Bill would be carried, and he was satisfied it would pas 4 the House of Lords ; but he did not believe that in the present state of the House of Lords it was possible for the late Administration to carry such a Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He rose to say this because when he found Members so sanguine in their calculations of an accommodation, he wished to recall their attention to the real circumstances in which they were placed, and to ask them, if they looked back to the events which had already taken place, what probability there was that the House of Lords would allow the late Administration to carry the Reform Bill. Lord S.VICDON regretted as much as any man the events which had taken place, but he believed it would be found they arose wholly in the House of Lords from a misapprehension of nature of the arguments, and a misunderstanding of the intentions of the Opposition. He believed this on his honour -- (Hear, hear.) He believed, on his honour and conscience, that the motives of the opponents of the Government had been misunderstood—that having the Blli before them they were de sirous of making it as perfect as possible; and that they would have sent it back to that House in such a shape as they would have gladly accepted.--(Hear, hear.) He believed, too, that this Bill would have been most satisfactory to the country.--- ;Hear, hear.) He cordially concurred in the observations of the Hon. Member with respect to the necessity of preserving the character of public men free from taint; and he honed, therefore, that a reconciliation might yet take place, and that all the difficulties at present in the way might be successfully overcome.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. DENISON was disposed to think the vote of the other evening rather premature ; but after what had already taken place, and after what he had heard that night, he thought it the fluty of every independent Member to concur in the re commendation that the contending parties should endeavour to effect a reconciliation. Mr. HUNT thtught it necessary to say a few words, although he was not one of the 288 who voted for Ministers, and the reason for that was, he did not wish to mix himself up with either party. He agreed with those Hon. Members who asserted that • the country was in such a state that there were very few per sons, either in that or in the other House of Parliament, who could restore it to peace and good humour. Nor would he dis guise the fact, that the only persons who were at all likely to succeed in tranquillizing the people, were the late Government. Whether they really could do so or not he did not know ; but this he knew, that whatever was done must be done promptly; that it roust be done without intermission or delay—otherwise lie would defy any man to say what might happen in the course of eight -and-forty hours. lie had listened to the lion. Member for Westminster, as lie had often done before, with great plea sure. That lion. Baronet had spoken very justly of the im propriety of the interference of a criminal Judge in political intrigues. But he begged leive, for fair pl ay was a jewel, to reca ll to the Hon. B arone t and the Whigs a circumstance which oc curred some years ago. He remembered that when Mr. Fox a nd Lord Grenville were in power, that Lord Ellenborough, a cri minal Judge, had a seat in the Cabinet ; so that the same man might one day determine on the prosecution of any person, and the next day sit in judgment oil him. He was certainly of ("Pi nion that at all times Judges should attend to the Bench and nct meddle with polities. They had heard a great deal in the course of the debate of political immorality and political inconsisteneY, and he certainly admitted that if the Duke of Wellington were to accept place, and then to carry .the Reform Bill. it would show, on his part, a great deal of political Immo—