The Sun. — London, England, 1804-04-24 00:00:00

what T. thought my duty in that respell. But, it is .needless to refer to the.past ; enough still' reTnains to be done, even upon the supposition that the War came 'a? unexpededly upon-Ministers, as it did on,tlleCooprry. Supposing , this to ltave beep the.'faa, we haue to consider how our efforts have beep . co.,4bjned, and what -.improvement has been :rnacle,in'-our means of Defence, Alluding to that :part to which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fox) ..ibad particularly adverted, .what has been done since the first day of the Declaration of War ? Were the minds of Nlinisters even then diSposed to give any encouragctr..ent to our resonrces ? So far .from rota y blind did they -2appear to the dangers of our ,it..2.4tion (Load " Hear! Hear !" ), . - that it was the common -conversation among them, that. they did not mean 'to _call out ,the whole nuoiber of Volunteers that- had been on duty dlning the last War ; but observed, that it traf .uon-onsary to go to so great an extent with the Foices as their predecessors. It was known then thar,insiead of encouraging the Volunteers, the means of'c.alling them but were suspended, and that the de sign. of forming a great plan of Defence for the Country originated, not from Ministers,: but from talbsequent . discussions.in this House, and the zeal of the Country, which saw the danger, and: pressed for ward.upbn the - Government in order to guard againsi ir, and suggested a plan to which the minds of Mi. ni , ters appear not till then to have been dire6.ted. Vi d ti)en, .Iyhen this body of - Patrints pressed for. -ward in Defen.ci of.their Cot:wry, how was their ;caul directed, how • was that , measure managed which hati -hcen - so tartilly.,brought. forward I Sir, • shalt-not enter, upon a detailed account of. all The confusion that prevailed, and. whiclomust have made , - a ptetty.Tdiep.impreivon on . the -House ;..but with aeve s '2.aao,the great question of Exemptions (I .atll poe . nowa arguing, against the propriety of its be: ing continued, but questioning the wisdom of the, original grant) what was the c.onduaaof Ministers ? 'Why . , they officiously pressed these.exemptions upon tlitse who did-nOt.want them, as if" they had been.. in !baste to stop- up 'the sources •feorn whence the : Army ,was to be recruited.. I myself, as well as many other persons in the HOuse, must know , t hat ' these exemptions came upon ,the ,Volonteers un- aoslght-for and unexpeaed : and when they ,were granted, 'the conditions were so obscure, that they Coislel not possibly tell whether they had them or not. Now as to the power of resignation,. this is,in my opi. pion, the best means of keeping up a force of the naittreof the. Volunteers. But without discussing I.he propriety of it, it is only' to be observed, that the .10 was drawn up in such a dark aosi obscure manner, that when it was stibtnitted . to a the examia tisin of the Attorney-General, for Whose charac ter and professional abilities I have the greatest respea, he decided the affair in one way, and the Court of King's Bench in another. Haviog, I s idwever, the Attorney-General's opinion, Minis"- .te.ia - Were extremely industrious in cirCulating it othotsg all the-Volunteer -Corps, but without ena bling, the Commanding Officer to giant - a_discharge, whilis they... Might haye done if they thought that the thing was improper. 'But instead of employing this simple method, they waited till next Session, and then brought in a Bill ; tb make that law. which was law before,' Here, however; two radical &leas in manageineut - ot the 'Volunteers occur, to Whreit 1. - Would wish shortly to advert. In'the first place, it was left to the discretion of Ministers (and the dis cretionary power was a very proper one) in what manner this force was to be distributed, _and whoa' ptoportio . ns were to be accepted in' the different couoties. What followed from this discretionary piwer ? -The consequences .ought certainly to have been, that' the first objea (If attention should be the defence of the Maritime Counties of*Kent, Sussex, and Essex ; the second the great Military 'Arsenals, and the third,' the Most vulnerable, points thraugh. out the where our great manufaaurerss ere established. These ought in all cases to . have hid the preference.. But that discretionary' power, hife as. it was claimed, and speeCirta as the claim was complied with, was very issadequately exercised. First, it was resoissed to confine the whole to _six times the Militia, imilthe.rnOst aingular inattention appear ed to the situations of the different Counties .in ac_ Opting the propositions ; and in this respea the con diaefof Ministers is liable to the most seridaS animad version. But even this resolution was very ill timed, and I at this moment_ see a witness of the fait (look ing at Mr.SatEßlAis), whose pretnature.and ardent zeal hurried him on ~ too rapidly ; for that 'Hon. Gentleman will, recollect, that with the full con seaf(of His Majesty's Minister's, he Moved for a Vote of Thaoks to . the Volunteers, and carried it, which was. intended, not only as- a reward for their past zeal, bpi also as an encouragement for them to catty their zeal much farther, and for this ptirpose it Was voted that a list of all the Volunteers, who shOuld enroll themselves during the interval from one_ Session to another, - should be laid on the Table, and entered on the Journals of the House; but it did not occur to him also to move the Thanks of the House to those who. should be disbanded ; but after their names had been entered upon the Journals of the HOnse, to Convey their fame and patriotism to pPaterity, a Circular Letter was dispatched to de .citnate those which he had wished to, multiply ten fold if he could, .and to tell 'them that there was no .farther occasion for their services. This, Sir, puts Me in mind of 'the use of the word. thanks in French, whichimplied,'When used to a person who held any office, that those concerned were so sensible of his services that they could not endure to trouble hitiaany longer ; which was a civil way of telling h' s lin to go abut his business, for that there ,was, no Miller occasion for aheSe services. Now, as to the regulations of the Volunteers,' a discretionary power ,Vas in this respea left in the 'hands of Ministers, which s had been _utterly and totally negleaed.— They had obtained the power of accepting.Volun. tears, under such regulations as His Majesty should epooint.. 'Whateyet dilutes, - therefore, about pre. Cadence, whatever:dis disputes about the dee - lion of Offi cc Pa, or any other matters, had arisen 'among Voluna tees, they are entirely owing to His Majesty!ti piste is—(/oti eriis of "Hear/ Hear!") —The next point in which the Condo& of Government had been highlY objeaionable was, the reluaance they evin ced in - granting money for the payment and training of 'the Volunteers, and the delays andfluataatiOtis• which h'ad taken`nlaCe in eonsequence. That it was I, e.tent intention of Ministers to form the Volunteers tit: •. • on a plan or discipline similar to the Regulars, and • to aft with that description of fotee, was manifest. The Volunteers have . been reduced into Battalions, and -tleeLinsuaions issued for their regulation by 14is Royal Highness • tile. Commander in Chief, .9ncli being the express intention of Government, according in ,my vievi of the subjea, there is an essential defeet in every step they have taken, and what I now ask of them is, that they should take eifeaual means. of carrying „their oivn- plans into execution with prompt and - immediate effea.---L. They obviously mean to make the Volunteers.ade quate to aft with Regulars. In answer to this,, I'say, conform your pradice to your intention. Take every measure ,that will render the Volunteers fit for the service you intend them. Now, what is it that His Majesty's Ministers, in faa, have done'? The Volunteers are to be called out twenty days in a year, and this, in , their conception, is to, make them equal to the arduous duties expeded from ;heat. Many, it is well known, only. attend, and are capable of attending part of :those, days,; and of those who do attend - thewhele time, it cannot . be, thought that in that short period they can .'be adequately qualified, according to the present plaP and rules of discipline by which they are regulated, Under these, the Officer can scarcely be said to have • power to enforce the silence necessary to catty on the most ordinary degree of duty,•wieh that steadi ness and attention which 'is requisite. It is no: excuse to His Majesty's Ministers at. this moment, that the House . may formerly have sanaioned the plan on which they have aaed. That plan' e was produced last summer, undersircumsfatices of a very urgent nature, which iequired measures of "immediate defence, without, particular . attention to the mi. nuti of regulation,' or 'the perfealon of -the plan. -Now ,the evil. was very different ; time had , elaps ed sufficient to originate every improvement of Which it was capable ; yet Ministers, thOugh frequently admonished of the subjea, have in' fuel, and troth originated no, means of improvement. Whatever. 'Pressed'by the urgency of present dan ger, the peoplesmay, and have „sewn, every disposi tion to step forward ; they. have done 30 at great inconvenience to themselves and, private concerns ; but this they had a right to complain of, that Minis. 'cm had in no degree matured the plan, which they even had not the merit of originating, but borrowed from their predecessors,. and e requiring from the people a permanent sacrifice of time and labour, on principles applicable only to an urgency ola tem.: porary nature, and being adapted for that occasion, were not in their praftical effefis, minutely ex- amined, The next point I wish to advert to is, atIO the instruftions given :- on this subjeft I have, upon several forther occasions, suggested Those improve. ments that I thought them capable of, but though not contradieled, they were always disposed of. by Ministers in the language of the States General 'of Holland, ad referendum : they were left for fu tuee consideration ; which, in point of fait, never took place. What I have particularly to corn: plain ,of, is the languor and inconsistency in Ministry;, they seem, on several occasions, un, able to.cmnbat the reason of measures, and seem. ingly adopt. theni, but immediately sink from their assumed vigour, and frustrate or neutralize the plan in their weak and desultory execution of it. On a former occasion I pointed out the necessity, or at least utility of, Field Officers, Adjutants, and Setjeant-Majors to complete the Establishment 'of the Volunteers. This certainly'was not denied by Ministers: they took, however, a few days to con sider of it, and then, to make the measure entire. ly their own, e they re.jeaed the Field Officers, ap. proved. of the Adjutants, and left the Serjeant-Mae jars: uncertain, though dependant on the very same principle. Agana, as to the . Adjutant, they . contrive to puzzle and perplex that regulation ; af-' ter some delay, they agreed to allow an Officer of that description to Corps of 400 men, provided they shOuld exercise 80 days, although they were to re. ceive only so . days' pay. Now, if Adjutants are useful, - they must he equally sn , to any other num. hers as well as 400 ; and if they were needful for those Corps that exercise So days in a year,tliey =lst be more so to those that - exercise less. But why, it may be asked, if 86 days exercise is useful, why if pay is received at. all, should. it be only for twenty days ? There is a puerility and inconSist,.; ency in the measures' adopted on these subjefis by His Majesty's NM-asters, that spew them ineipeble of following up any principle they adopt, with strength .and vigour. They could, not deny the reason of the measure proposed,' and therefore adopt the prinCiple, but immediately they ,becnme fearful of a vigour alien to their own charafler, and frus trke its effeds by the confusion and tardiness.of its execution ; it is 'impossible , that any thing can more strongly prove their total want of origi— nal vigour, or borrowed sa e acity. Of themselves they suggest e nothiag ; what they take from others, they neutraliza, and spoil in its execution ;, they can neither infuse spirit into any, measure themselves, nor let that : quality, when ,suggested by Others,- have its natural worse ; every thing, under their managetnetst,- becomes taene, • itikeivarnie: and inadequate- to its end. ,As to the other point, that respe'ting the introduaion of Serjeant-Makers' from'the Line into the Volunteers, this was recom. mended early in December, and yet the point was not at this moment decided. At first it was said, that Officers of this description could not 'be found in numbers sufficient e then, that they would nor . come forward without an allowance, by way of half_ pay. Deulats and difficulties were started, bait nothing was decided. Ministers, in this instance, neither knew how to rejeft, nor how to adopt the proposi tion, .and nothing 'but hesitation and inconsistency marked - their conduit; qualities, of all others, the most unfit for the discharge of the arduotis duties they have at this moment to perform. SuCh, in the 'instances I have now pointed out, has been the inde cision and weakness of their condua, that when the Volunteers were under 'discipline to be led against an enemy, weeks and months pass away in doubt what plarvof discipline is to he adopted. On my return to the County of Kent, a fter•tn , king the sug. gestions I have noticed, I found orders had been re. ceived by Officers in my Distria, to keep their men in readiness to march against the Enemy at' ,a mO - warning, and in this state they have rem ained . six weeks and more ; and all this while e epeaieg thenadaily to meet the Enemy,Government would rot deteitnine whether they should ileac Serjeen;alo4- . • jot's, or that that plan a discipline tliould .b relin qUisheil. I really beg pardon of the Huse (Hear ! Hear!) for entering into such minute details, but Without such an inspeaion, the epreme weakness and trifling indecision of His Majesty's Mioisters, their continual fluduation and utter incapacity, can. not fully. be pointed out. All that is in existence of the yolunteer System, ,owes its, birth to their prede cessors, and is in no degrec attributable to Ministers they took it as they found it, and notwithstaDeiing.a .year's experience, - have amended it in no one par ticular. So long ago " , as previous to the Christ. mas'Recess, they were 'reminded of this, and asked what they meant to - do with the Volunteer System, in order to make that, which arose from partirular urgency, idequatetcithe present calls of permanent establishment. To thisinquiry they said, Wait, do, not press us now with that question ; wait till after. the Christmai''holidays, when we shall bring for. waid a well-Considered and digested System of Ge neral National Defence. What, in Acquittance of this promise, they have produced, I leave the House .to decide. A plan, indeed, had been brought forward - for the regulation of the Volunteers, which, after being so changed from its original shape, as scarcely to be the same, had found its way to the other House of Parliament, where, it had undergone such farther alterations, that when it comes_back, I apprehend we shall find our Selves little farther ad. ,vanced on the subjea, than when we set out with it. On this,-however, I shall now say the less,, as it mtist necessarily fall under discussion ,at some future opportunity. - Among the measures also recommend ed and adopted, though not originating- with Mini. stets, Was, that of immediately calling out - a large . portion of the Volunteer's on'attual service for two or three weeks. This being proposed, tvSS adopted•by Ministers; but how has it beeo reduced to praaice ? If the principle had any merit; it required a . 14umpt, and immediate execution, - for it was to provide against the possibility, and' even the probability of a speedy Invasion of Elie Enemy,, and - enable the Volunteers of this Country to meet them tinder all the advantages of an improved state of ,discipline., .Ministers, however, true to 'their own mode.olaa ing, on all occasions adopting the 'principles, had yet not put it in a' train of execution (here'some dissent being expressed from the Treasury. Bench ); I repeat, that though orders may have been given to some Commanders to invite 'their Corps to put them selvea in a state of permanent duty, that the measure ; itself is not even yet in a trair - iof`execution.; Nay, the thing i s manifestly impossible, for the A 4 tin der which the men are to assemble is not yet passed ; I mean the Volunteer Afte which we now expea in an altered state - from the House of Peers', and concerning 'which, it may therefore be improper to advert, more particulaely at this time. Such as it was, 'this weak, enfeebling; and incon sistent Bill, is all that Ministers have pre. tended or attempted to do to regulate, in any manner; or advance towards Perfeetion, that System on which they rested the General Defence of the Kingdom. Again, upon the same Qccasion to which I have adverted, it was suggested; thatlotne temps. tion should beheld out to the Volunteers, to induce them to come ,forward and offer their Permanent Services, and the donation of a guinea a-man was proposed. This was immediately adopted by Ministers, - and, in like manner, was wholly per-. verted, or rendered of no effea by, their subsequent regulations. In the first estace, the guinea, instead of being.a free gift, as at first intended, was made to come out of the three guineas already given. by Parliament when they should be called out on actual service. It was therefore not, under thosecircum stances, a gift that could operate as a motive of any great weight. In the next place, it was not, as at first intender', to be given to ,the then, but made subject to the controul of the Commanding Officer, to be laid out,in great coats or other necessaties, with-, out which it %yas said they could not take the field, This might be true, but then these necessaries should . be found, as an incident to their service, and the gui nea should have been applied to the men persOnally, as an inducement to come immediately forward.— As Hii Majesty's Ministers had managed the Mat ter, it was wholly unproduaive of the 'end for. which it was established. It , was intended not to, provide necessaries, which rested altogether on another principle, but as a motive to 'come forward, by enabling a man, in his absence, to provide more comfortably for histamily, or to apply it in any way he thought most personally desirable. The guinea was applied in different proportions, - and according to the time.of service for to, 15, ao, or 30 days, but . theanecessaries to enable the men to take the field, it was,obvious, were equally essential for all those pe. riods, which shevved the two things rested upon wholly different principles; and shewed the absurdity of regulating the one by the other. Considered as a temptation to induce the men to come forward, it, would appear as if His Majesty's Ministers had been . actuated by a desire to make it as little operative as possible. . There are in the same Bill many re gulations in which Ministers have ,shewn the same Want of clear and adequate conception of the end theriitofeifekrci have iri view. Indeed, every thing they attempt to meddle wiih,evinces the same wavering inconsistency, and is made to carry the stamp and mark of their charatteristicfeature—weak. ness and incapacity. The instances are too nume rous for me at this moment to particulaiize, and therefore I shall trouble the House no farther on that subject. (Hear !, Hear ! Hear ! ) There is another subject, howeVer, respeaing which I must 'say a few words. .1 had a large share, in recommending the General Enrolment Clause of the Defence Mt, said though adopted, it 'never has been "acted on. but neither this, nor the Army of Reserve, were adopted. early by the Ministers They; on the contrary, long after the War had takenplace, shewed no intention whatever of recurring to any extraordinary means . of Defence, although it was 'obvious they were fully aware of the peculiar charaCter of this War, and pro fessed to entertain apprehensions of a speedy Inva sion of the Enemy. When, after ,the suggestion of others, the Defence Act, and Arniy of Reserve Bill, were passed, the execution of one was suspend. ed, and the other not enforced.. To Ministers who so conducted' theinselves,. it was in vain for the Country to look for prompitude and vigour. They seem to relax from every resolution they take, and more anxious to tread bacle their steps, than to go forward,. What e paised on the occasion of the Army Esti .• •• rnates, ellewed clearly Ministers had no . , farther plan of Nationo.Deferee than. the Volunteer ACI, as brow ht forward by them elves. T he De' fence Acre was not aaive, and the Army of Rese rv. was to be abandoned, and the Volunteer Bill, pc', r and naked as it was, was to constitute the mat t ' defence of the country . . That I might not, hot: ever, be mistaken, I rose at the conclus ion of r'w, Debate, to ask if I rightly understood them, that measure contained all the pro Vision ther meant to Make upon the subject; and being answer' ed by His IVlajesty's Secretary of State t h at it wo' I then gave, notice that I should feel it my dut y t° submit some .farther t egula . tions to the H odge ' Though niy intentiodwas thus made known to 10' nisters, they 'had done nothing to e n l ar g e or seeder perfea their own plans of defence. By a strang e retrocession they were about to abandon sora measures of. defenCe they bad adopted. 'rho: ing know - the charaCter of the 'War, and imp o r perils of. the Country, and yet do nothing, ei rather worse than ,nothing;- they destroy wh 3 they themselves - . leave established. The . APO' I of Reserve Bill may be in some particulars defeaive' but ! the advantages of that measure are dOubtles: great, as I should have pointed Out mote'particu lar n l ° i t on Friday last, hi d . the diSeussion on that Bil l J been accidentally deferred to Wedrresdav: Insieat. of abolishing that measure, it should be rendered.Pe; inanene and more effectualita defea des shoul d v a remedied, and its principles pursued and r enre more effedive. This, in thediscussion of Vi r e dn i , e9 ,; day, I trust [shall be able to ptove, and chew, r`lie instead of abandoningthat measure, it should be 117° , the model of an enlarged and permanent plan to e° stitote a regular nursery for .the, Regular Arq; Should lon that occasion no succeed, then, bY t e , adoption of the present Motion for a Conr rt "u i „ e , shall I ve another and better opportunity ,o' stating my• reasons, and enforeing my - ar4" 11 3 5 (Hear ! Hear !) On this 'ground,' therefoce) well as others urged by the Hon. Gentles - 10 ° : y „ f e brought it forward,"' I feel myself bound (a , for it ; I shall not therefore, insist farther -';t this point at present. Instead of seeing any in'lr;g in the plan for.suspending the 'Army of Reserv e r measure ,strikes me as very erroneous, a nd the coinpanying it with the Volunteer Bill; lately E ed, • a great' .and farther oversight. This 15, measure of His Majesty's 'Ministers shows ele3 '; ly that. the Regular Army is not yet • adeq 9r , to the necessity of the. State; and Implies ill° means should be taken to increase it. T he T e t i •thod of so doing may be subject to some varietlhe opinion opinion; perhapi I may not see it exactly in sa me light as the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fox),/ 7"e I do not perceive any mate r ia l practical diffelencf between us - . The general principle and outline' our national defence appears to me good, regard as it does the Regulars, Army of Reserve, .vli4t 1- ';'; 'and Volunteers. Were they . less defensible principle than 'they are, I should consi de r the as existing establishments, in the present inceieq ft . more agreeable to confirm and improve, t,ta ,aboliih and substitute by new. Thus I d eCA ! my 6pin - ion on this subject, without at this' T ll .l l entering into a more particular defence of it.: q' respe to the power of. the Crown to call on e,,, respect Subjectunder-its dominion, in case of absolu te • this I take, under some form or other, to h e lady 'dent'to the very establishment of civil societYt in fact, whenever occasion required, has been e"ita. cised. 'rhe.principle is, however, limited by tho necessity, whigh scarcely can arise but whe n ; state of things would authorize the Crown self to proclaim Martial Law ; and if the ' o of stirution should survive that urgent, stAte things, the Consellors of His Majesty Wciul doubtless, be as amenable to Coristttutioaal s p o nsibility for that, as any other ad of th Administration. As such isthe undoubted rig, and_prerogative of the Crown, I should with 'a view to possible emergencies, that Leg is / a tive Provision should, in the present jundtir e l l 'little anticipate the jOatifiable necessi t y to whie leave referred, at least so tar as to pm every r'•. t he the Maritime Counties, likely to be the seat of Enemy's attempt, under the imm ediate power of Crown, in case of adual Or imminent danger of 10 0 vision. On this occasion shall say no ° c o,- relative to that part of our Defence tha t ail' certis the Naval Department, than to r `'': n 7, that, notwithstanding Officers from distant st'',,Viek (Hear ! hear ! hear!) were called to cotr„ the 'my opinions, and , expose them to ridicule, ' l l / . o ",aecl• very suggestions I made have since been f ° ,4 t hink The immediate means' of Naval Defence 1 s°-; i • r , tile inadequate, and the means of future SupplY,„- both articles of Naval Stores, more defeetive • i 5 these points I have no doubt whatever. •,"" fen ces another point concerning our National venro much uch cried down, and endeavoured to be made " pular, on which I'also retain my opinion • fil b e a eo relative to Fortifications, not as they hay e a nd represented, General Fortifications , but locairoat particular additions to natural strengt h of itul'°e of, places, so as to augment the natural advanlicoar situations, and render particular posts and st a o ti , more easily defensible. — Such , Sir , are the sd car ments which a sense of duty to His MajestYr obligations to the Country, oblige me to deel ar . 0 t Mr. Secretary YoRKE spoke at considerable length ag3tlvo the Motion, which he considered in point of fad as 3 ! li _ li ° o 3 l for 'the removal of His Majesty's 'Ministers, and co,ii.t rrt c O OO that it would have been tri ,, re manly to have at on c °V' fo r iv a l I r t . A c d . dr v es: N t sOl H Tt is A M ß. ;j a e l t d y s tO u. e posed the Motion. - Sir HOME POPHAM supporte d' the Motion. • Captain MAitmiANt. replied to him. lenr - The AT Tt4R N y-G ENER.AL spoke at conside,a— r%irx.Vrnez against the Motion, and was answered by mr. wir:P".„nt l 4 Mr. Fox, in his reply, commented with great alr an upon the obiervations of the ATT ORN EY G hat ,jit denied that he had formed any Coalition but 101 v published at_Charing-,Cross. yo 4 The House then divided —For Mr. Fox's Mot i o n - ~0 56 Against it -- - -- - 5 Majority in favour of Ministers -•- - - out : e ...ed• At Four o'Clock the' Morning the House adj_____....• c 0 ,07 cil Y , • fo r alai illation was sig for the ,h ti a rn lf o -p s j a n s c t e on i e li , s H in t d s is M po Ag o S ri TY ; much other business, a Procla NERAL FAST, to be observed on t riPy :Oe 2 -5 next. . heldn aflool?, PRICE OF STOCKS, THIS DAY AT TWELVE. OCLOCK. - 5.51 Consols - - - - - . . L ,, ---: --------- ~ , ... Et w ..5..5 , ondoa: Printed by B. IV‘MILiAN. (4„vciAitivt!ceo, co , venf-karden); and Published by WILI-, l „ t 7 s ciltarg o . S R I n's (of Sonth Moltor.street, CirQsvo.--",-- Nth 112, S;TX'tfl. • ' ' ' . - -- -1