The Sun. — London, England, 1832-03-02 00:00:00

snarly four millions. Those facts he would under take to prove to the Committee, if one should be appointed. The papers which he had read showed that the distress in the silk trade had annually increased from the year 1826, when the new regula tions were made, and that previous to that year the trade had been increasing. He thought, therefore, that to a certain extent he had made out a case, sufficient to induce the House to take this subject into its considera t:on. Under his second head—the practical and histori ell authorities bearing on the subject—his Lordship briefly traced the progress of the silk manufacture in England. The first mention of it was in the reign of Edward 111. ; in the reign of Henry VI. it was found to have declined, as at pre-ent (and the coincidence was remarkable), from a want of due protection. In 1606, under the auspices of James 1., the silk throwsters were incorporated, and nothing material occurred till 1685, and the revocation of the Edict of Nantz. That event was the origin of the establishment of the silk manufacture at Coventry and Spita'fieldd. Nearly a century afterwards, viz, in 1765, the &stress in this branch of manufacture was so great, that the Legislature put restrictions upon our intercourse with foreien countries in ; and in the following year those restrictions were exchanged for a duty almost amount ing to prohihition. In 1509 that duty was made perpe tual, and it was continued until 1824, producing to the Exchequrr more than 700,0001. every year. In 1824 the famous Free Trade Resolutions were passed, and they were brought into operation in 1826. The Noble L ord then read an extract from the report of the Committee of the House of Lords in 1821, appointed to take into con sideration the trade in silk with the Bast Indies, and after wards noticed the subject of machinery, but in a manner which preventing our catching any thing distinctly, but a reference to the case of Messrs. Haines and Atkinson, who having employed French engineers, and set up looms, &c., which cost 19,000/., found the experiment fail, and subsequently sold the whole machinery for 5,050/., after having sustained a total loss of not less than 40,000/. On the third head—the prospects for the future— he admitted that free trade was attended with many ad vantages, and that the repeal of what was called the Spital fields Act by Mr. Huskisson, had accomplished an import ant benefit to the trade. His (Lord Grosvenor's) expecta tions were, however, most gloomy, and be feared, without a tatel change of system, no hope could be held out to the unfortunate artiz tn. He did not object to the prosperity of France at the present moment, but his philanthropy was not quite so universal as to make him wish that our neighbours should fl nirish at our expence. His Lordship also alluded to the proceedings of an envoy from the Board of Trade, who h id recently been at Macclesfield—who had witnessed the universal distress, and who (if we heard cor rectly) recommended the repeal of the corn-laws, as the only pknacea. He had that morning received a petition, to be presented to the House, from the operatives in Man chester and Salford, confirming the representations of the masters, that the silk trade in those towns was in a most ruinous state. He would ask, then, were the artisans of this country to be brought to ruin for the sake of a vague theory ? Not less than 300,000 persons depended upon that trade for subsistence, and he firmly believed that they would perish, unless encouragement were given to their labour by some legislative enactment. The Noble Lord concluded by moving for the appointment of a Select Com mittee to inquire into the state of the silk trade. Mr. E. L. BULWER seconded the motion. Mr. POULETT THOMSON wished to set out by stating, that it was not the intention of his Majesty's Government to oppose the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the present state of the silk trade ; but lie should beg to propose an addition to the motion of his Noble-Friend—not with a view to alter, but rather to ex- tend its scope and operation ; and also with the view of uniting it to another question, which would include the object of further preventives to smuggling. As he thus agreed with his Noble Friend to the extent of assenting to his motion, he should net have to trouble the House, by enterin't at much length into the general question, but would have shortly stated the views entertained by his Maj-sty's Government, had not his Noble Friend, and his Hon. Friend by whom the motion was seconded, entered into a variety of details, and drawn conclu.ions from them, with which he (Mr. P. T.) could not concur ; he, there fore, found it necessary to go more at length into the question than would otherwise have been necessary. He should, as he had already stated, consent to the Com mittee, but not on the grounds which the mover and seconder had stated ; from those he altogether dissented. No doubt the Noble Lord and Honourable Gentle man were actuated by the best motives, and as both of them represented places which were the seat of much distress, they were but obeying the wishes of their respective constituents in bringing forward that subject. As to the distress under which those districts were labouring, he had to assure both the mover and seconder, that they only did justice to the feelings of his Majesty's Government, when they gave them credit fur deeply sympathising with the sufferings which those individuals unfortunately had to endure. But though he admitted the existence of distress to a considerable extent, he by no mem was prepared to admit that the general state of trade was at all in so distressed a condition as had been represented. Nothing had occurred to the silk trade -which had not over and over again taken place in the silk trade, and which did not, in some degree, appear to be in- herent in the nature of that trade. In 1793 there were no fewer than 4,000 men out of employment. In 1801, 20,000/. was voted by Parliament for the relief of the silk trade. In 1817 the utmost distress prevailed ; and in 1819, such was the distress existing, that a Committee of that House was appointed to inquire into theatauses of that distress, and since then there had been several periods of distress. It bad been frequently complained that a change of system had taken place sufficient to produce the existing distress, and that it had produced it. Now he would sub mit to the House whether or not any case had been made out to show that that change of system—supposing it to have taken place to the extent assumed—had really pro duced that effect. So far from any position of that nature being founded in fact, he would maintain that there did not exist the slightest connection between the existing distress and the change which bad taken place in the commercial system of the country. He should now call the attention of the House to some of the changes which had actually taken place in the silk trade, and then the House would judge how those changes were calculated to produce the present d fliculties. In 1824 Lord Liverpool's Govern ment reduced the duty nn thrown Italian silk from 14s. Bd. to 7s. 2t1., and, at the sane time, took off the prohibi tion on manufactured silk, changing it to a fixed duty.— The removal of the prohibition, and the establishment of a fiaeri duty, went upon uone of what were called the ab stract principles of political economy; but on this obvious practical and sound principle, namely, that taking the minimum i f the cost of smuggling, they fixed that as the amount of duty, in the well-founded expectation that it would put an end to the contraband trade. That arrange ,7ant was not carried into effect for some time after it was proposCd, for it was held that its operation would be the ruin of the manufacture, and therefore it was demanded thr.t time should be given to enable these engaged in the trade to withdraw their capital and invest it otherwise, be fore they were inundated with French goods. Most un wisely that proposition was agreed to, for the time was not taken advantage of for the purpose of accomplishing that object for which it was asked. The number of manufac. turers engaged in the trade up to that time was not in the slightest degree diminished. One would have thought that the first effort made by them would be to prepare for the coming danger ; but they did no such thing. In the most extraordinary and extravagant manner they ex tended their operations, and in 1626 they were in a much worse condition to meet the alteration than they otherwise could possibly have been. If they had been as prudent as they were imprudent, a result the direct reverse of that which L a d taken place would certainly have occurred. The fact was, that all the distress which had taken place arose sole!y from undue speculation, and the parties had only to blame themselves. It would not, of course, he necessary thr him to trouble the House with a long series of figures on the present subject, but there were a few details to which he should just brit fly advert. He shouleLt Ike the five years previous to 1824 and the five years subsequent to 1627, for during the intervening period, as the law did not come into operation, it therefore could have produced no effect. The quantity of raw silk entered for home consumption was In 1819 1820 1,444,0001b5. 1,621,004) 1821 1822 1,993,000 1824 3,442,000 Il e would now call their attention to the state of the trade subsequently to 1827 : In 1828 the quantity was 3,559,0001b5. 1829 1830 „ 2,419,000 13:31 And up to die present time In this, the quantity amounted to 336,000109. The average of those five year. then was 3,739,0001b5., whi ch was ahotit 100 per cent. increase upon the other five years. Was that a proof that the change had injured the trade ?—(Hear, hear.) He would now put it to the House whether his Noble Friend had made out any case to stand upo n? In his opinion, the great mistake with respect to those duties was, that arty portion of them should have been allowed to remain. It had been stated that there was a reduction in the amount of employment in Macclesfield, and it was thence inferred that the trade was in a declining state; but no inference twW be more erroneous; it could not be traced to any foreign competition ; there was abundant to account for that effect, in the appearance of the new machinery which had been erected in Manchester. In 1819 there was not one of those mills existing in Manchester. In 1823 there were seven, and since that year no fewer than five addi tional mills had been established, making together twelve since 1819; and many of them mills of great power. It was curious to observe how regularly, though gradually, that town drew towards itself almost all the manufactures of the country. Before 1823, the mills were of 146 horse power ; subsequent to that year they increased to 193 horse power; and now they had risen as high as 242 horse power. He confessed himself somewhat at a loss to understand how it was intended to arrange the difficulty, Was it desired to go back to the 14.5., the is., or the ss. duty? It really seemed to him that his Noble Friend desired to prohibit the importation of foreign silks altogether ; but did he think that any prohibition would be productive of better effects than the existing duty of 30 per cent. ? For his part, as be had already stated, he did not believe that the distress in Coventry at all approached the extent stated ; and he would refer to returns relative to the poor rates, which would set the question at rest. I❑ the last twelve months the poor rates diminished, instead of increased. He had statements on the subject from the year 1816, but he should not trouble the House with going through them in detail. In 1829, the poor rates of Coventry amounted to 12,4001. In the year ending July, 1830, they rose to 20,0001. ; but from all the inquiries he could make, that difference was owing to causes no way connected with the silk trade. In the year ending July, 1831, the poor rates of that city were again brought down to 12,i'00/. ; and in the half-year ending in January in the present year, they were so low as 6,6991. ; and there was every reason to believe that for the whole of the pre• sent year they would not exceed 13,0001. The House, he trusted, would bear in mind that there actually had been no increase of the poor rates, though the population of the city had greatly increased in the interval. He con fessed he was somewhat at a loss to understand what his Hon. Friend would have. He seemed to say that he Tould protect the English manufacturer from the effects of foreign competition. He might rest assured that no mode would be more effectual for that purpose than the duty which at present existed. It was a duty, which, on French gauze, French gauze ribbons, and figured silks, amounted to from 50 to 66 per cent., and that was surely a sufficient amount of duty. Whatever other Members might s►y, he entertained no doubt that the Hon. Member for Thetford would give no support to a prohibitory system. His opinions formerly were—and of course they remained unchanged—that no thing could be more absurd than a prohibition ; it would never prevent any article in demand from coming into the market, nothing but a duty below the cost of smuggling would prove a useful protection. Ladies would have any article of French dress which they desired to possess, if by no other means, through the medium of a contraband trade. The existence of a contraband trade was in itself an evil of the greatest magnitude, and nothing could pre vent it while a prohibitory duty remained ; and there was this disadvantage, that nothing could be more difficult than to distinguish between British and foreign silks. He would contend, that in the three important points upon which Mr. Huskisson had hazarded a prediction, that pre diction had been fully verified,—in the skill of our arti sans—in the perfection of machinery ; and in the amount of capital, our trade had decidedly improved. The Noble Lord had said that there was no advance in machinery.— He would reply to that by calling his attention to the in troduction of the Jacquard loom at Manchester. He said farther, that the silk trade of particular towns had not im proved ; but he would ask, in reply to that observation, was it not a fact that the trade of the country generally had been benefited by the changes which had been effected ? Inferences to guide the decision of the Legislature were not to be drawn from the misfortunes of individuals; neither did the amount of capital employed at Mac clesfield decide any thing with respect to the increase at Manchester. In 1824, the number of looms iu that town was six thousand, they now amount to fifteen thou sand. His Noble Friend had left it to he inferred that the depression in this trade had arisen from foreign competi tion. If this was the eve, the fact must be proved in one of two ways—either by importations that had taken place, or by the increase of the trade of smuggling. But be thought that he should be able to show that this was not the case, for which purpose he begged to refer the House to some Custom-house returns which he held in his hand. From these it appeared, that since the prohibition had been taken off, there had been very little increase in the amount of the importations over and above the first year, when, owing to the alteration, some activity was evinced. Ac cording to these returns, the official value of the importa tions in 1827 was 556,000/. ; in 1828, 677,060/. ; in 1829, 595,000/. ; in 1830, 595,000/. ; and, in 1831, so far as the accounts could be made up, it appeared that the amount was pretty much the same. This, then, clearly proved that the alteration was not to be so much dreaded, when, in the course of five years, no greater increase than this had taken place. Now he would turn to the question of smuggling ; and he would observe here, that one of the greatest benefits he expected to de rive front the Committee was, that its labours would tend to convince Hon. Gentlemen that nothing could be done in the way that the petitioners suggested. With respect to smuggling, he did not believe that the trade had in creased lately much beyond what it was before the prohi bition was taken off. According to the best accounts he could get, smuggling was now carried on to abeut the ex tent of 200,0001. a year, while at the time of the prohibi tion its amount was about 250,0001. a year. Having thus stated to the House what was the amount of the im ports, he would now call the attention of the House to the exports, in order that they might have the whole question before them : and it was a matter of some importance, be cause if the trade bad really declined, as was asserted, it was certainly not a little extraordinary that both the con• sumption of the raw material and the amount of the ex ports had considerably increased. The average export of British silks during the three years prior to 1824 was 102,000/. ; and in 1828, 1829, and 1830, the average amount was 215,000/. ; during the last two years (1830 and 1831) the average was 348,000/. ; and in the last year it was nearly 500,000l.—(Hear.) After this, he would ask whether it was probable that this trade was in the declining state that had been represented, or whether we really had so much to dread from foreign competition ? In the statement just made, he begged to remark that he bad referred to those articles which were composed of silk alone, and bad not included those in which mixed silk was used the latter, however, showed a similar increase ; for the amount in the course of the year to which he had al luded had risen from 30,000/. to 79,000/. After this, lie would not trouble the llmpte with any more statements, but merely confine himself to briefly express ing the ground on which the Government considered that they were justified in consenting to his Noble Friend's motion for a Committee of Inquiry, without in the least dep.rting from the opinions or the principles which they had always professed. He, for one, was actually rejoiced that the Government hail come to this conclusion, because he was satisfied, that if the inquiry was properly conducted, the truth must be elicited, and that that truth would afford a moat signal triumph fir the pt inciples on which the Go• vernment had acted. If he had had any hesitation as to the propriety of granting this Committee, it was because he never could look without great fear at any thing that was likely to stagnate and disturb any of the large trades or manufactures of the country. That such would be the result of this Committee it was impossible not to admit ; for the House practically too well knew that, on whatever grounds a Committee of Inquiry was granted into any of the manufactures of the country, general uncer tainty always prevailed with regard to the result, and individual speculations in consequence were no longer undertaken with security. Feeling this, he should have disregarded not only the desire of many who usually act with Government—such as the Hon. Afemlwr for Mid dlesex —and who were anxious for inquiry, iu order that It ntight be shown that the demands of the petitioners mere unreasonable, but even also risked the opposition of those who felt it to be their duty to support the prayer of these petitions, had it not been that the peculiar circum stances under which this trade was placed were such as seemed to mark out investigation as the wiser course, in order that it might be distinctly shown what was the si tuation of the question. He was ready to admit that his belief was, that there was a necessity for an alteration in the laws which had reference to the silk trade ; but he trusted that he had said enough to convince the House, that so far from the duty being :30 per cent., as intended by Mr. Huskisson and the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo site, it was in many instances 35, 40, 50, and 60 per cent. This being the case, he was satisfied that it would be found necessary to change these duties, not with the view of increasing them, for their amount was already a strong temptati ti to smuggling, but with the view of reducing them to that point from which the Government of time cost Right ofstiu lion. ggljng Gentleman jtiiatth had e manufacturer as rerm t i h g e ht m h iz a i v inu e a th rn e lull protection of the law, but on such a footing that no inducement should be held out to the smuggler to break the law. He was satisfied that the result of the inquiries of the Committee would be to alter the duty on thrown silk, and to give to the consti tuents of the Hon. Member fur Coventry that advantage to which they were entitled, viz. having the raw material to work with without the infliction of a heavy duty upon it ; and lie hoped that they woold be able to gu as fall's as the Hon. Member for Middlesex could wish, in endea vouring to satisfy the individuals engaged in this trade, not only that the Government was willing to pay every attention to their wishes, but that if it was found neces sary to adopt a line of conduct different from their feelings, it was not to be done till the fullest inquiry into the sub ject bad taken place. Colonel DAVIES said, that the Right Hon. Gentle man, had, in his speech, laid down such irresistible grounds for the reference of this subject,'as well as the glove trade, to a Committee, that he thought he could not do better than move, after the present question was disposed of, that the state of the glove trade be referred to the same Committee. Mr. POULETT THONISON, although he had agreed, on the part of Government, to the appointment of this Committee on the silk trade, felt anxious to unite in the Committee a further inquiry. He should therefore move as an amendment to the motion of his Noble Friend, to leave out all the words after the word " appoint," for the purpose of inserting these words, " to examine into the state of the silk trade, and to inquire what effect had been produced by a change in the laws since 1824, and whether any and what legislative measure might be deemed ad visable to promote the sillc trade, as well as for checking the smuggling of silk manufactures." Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN thought the Right Hon. Gentleman had not put the question fairly to the House. The plain simple question was, " are these particular traders in distress, or are they tint ?" He thought the Right Hon. Gentleman had defeated his own argument, for when he had said that within the last three years the increase of the importation of the raw material had amounted to 3,500,0001., and that, because there had been an increased importation that trade must be flourishing, he ought rather to have looked for an increased consumption, for he maintained that with an increased population, and with the advantage of expensive machinery, the consump tion must have increased if the trade had been thriving. What was the fact, admitting that the trade had in creased ? Why, that distress had increased also, and since the year 1826 the wages of a weaver had fallen from I Is. to ss. per week. It had, however, been stated that the trade was thriving in Manchester, but on the authority of a letter he had received from a most extensive silk.throwster there, a Mr. Hoyle, the reverse was the case. His informant stated, that official facts would not satisfy the trade, for there were a starving population of labourers filling the workhouses at the present moment. There was another fact be must mention, which was, that the export in the fancy trade, formerly 3,0001., was now only 250/. He could not agree with many of the points stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman, and he would ask the House why, when there were hands enough to employ in the manufac tories, should the manufactures of France be admitted, and thereby heat down the workmen of this country into the worst state of poverty. If he chose to enter upon the doctrine of free trade, he could show the House that the exports had fallen off since 1817, to the enormous amount of 9,000,000/. per annum, and that though the official value might have increased 4,000,000/., the real value had decreased 2,000,000/. The subject had been brought before the Pat liatnent in 1766 by the Spitalfields weavers, and he ventured to assert that at that period there was not one-hundredth part of the smuggling that was now carried on. He ti used that Government would consider the sub- ject fairly, and determine upon making such alterations in the excise laws as would put an end to a system so perni cious to the trade of the country. Mr. G. R. ROBINSON was much surprised with the speech of the Right Hon. Vice-President of the Board of Trade, who had commenced by arguing that the peti tioners had no grounds on which to rest their claims, and vet lie concluded by acquiescing in the appointment of a Committer. He (Mr. Robinson) could not but complai❑ of the refusal of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the other night, to grant a similar inquiry for his constituents, with respect to the state of the glove trade, denying that any distress existed, and yet now, while the Right Hon. Gen tleman denied that any distress existed amongst the silk weavers, he grants them a Committee to inquire into the state of their trade, and the cause of their distress. Mr. P. THOMSON explained. He did not deny that distress exited. Mr. ROBINSON was glad the Right Hon. Gentleman and himself were no longer at issue. But it had been charged that the traders of this country had brought dis tress upon themselves by an imprudent trading, but what had been the language of the Right Hon. Gentleman i❑ 1825 ? The amount of bis speech at that period was a call upon traders to bring into action their best energies against foreign competitors, and if they failed i❑ their efforts, to come to this House for relief. The Right Hon. Gentleman now •aid they had not used these energies, but had given up their trade to foreign competitors. The amount of it, however, was this, that the traders were compelled to embark in trades that were unprofitable, because they had no other means of existence. The lan guage of the petition was the language of the lion. Mem ber for Thetford, in 1825, who had then said, " that if the people could not be maintained by employment, the country must maintai❑ them, for it had degraded and de moralized the population, and had extended the feelings of discontent and dissatisfaction, which had given rise to the cry for Reform in Parliament." I❑ this sentiment he (Mr. Robinson), though a supporter of the Reform Bill on principle, acquiesced. He thought that when a foreign na tion was pursuing a competition with so much energy, if the Committee could devise no other means of relieving the distress affecting the manufacturers of this country, recourse must be had, in spite of principle, to prohibition once more. Mr. WILBRAHAM could bear testimony to the distress which affected Macclesfield and other parts of the country with which he was connected. He held in his hand a statement of the rate of wages in former years, to which he felt it his duty to call the attention of the House. In 1825, in Macclesfield, the rate of wages of the weaver was 16s. 711. per week, and in 1826 it fell to Is. 9d. In 1824, in the silk-throwing branch, there were employed 276 per sons at 111. per week ; and in 1828 the number employed were reduced to 129 persons, at an average of ss. 3d. per week. That the distress had increased was shown by this statement, and was corroborated by the fact that in 1825 the poor rates amounted to 4,0001., and in in 1826 they were increased to 7,8001., nearly double the amount of the preceding year. Mr. G. BANKES had given notice of a motion con nected with this subject, on account of a great smuggling transaction that had recently come to light, and also with reference to the statement of the Right Hon. the Vice- President of the Board of Trade, that not a dozen pair of gloves were smuggled into this country in the course of a year. His motion would have extended, not merely to the present subject, but to others, where protection was withdrawn from our own manufactures, and facilities were granted to the foreign trader. He was no party to the incorporation of the words now proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman, as an improvement of the motion of the Noble Lord ; and he was inclined to believe that it would create some disappointment amongst those individuals who were interested in the question. The present motion did not embrace the whole of the matters which his motion would have brought under the consideration of the House ; and it would not therefore preclude him from bringing forward his proposition at such time as he might think fit. The great and only object of the Right Hon. Gen tleman seemed to be, a desire to protect the manufac turers from the effects of smuggling. But if that were so, why did he admit a compromise in the great smuggling case which had lately been discovered? With reference to that subject, he would ask the Attorney-General, whether the statement contained in the memorial of Messrs. Leaf and Co. to the Treasury (which statement he should read) were true or not? It was set forth in that document, " That your memorialists having found that the only mode by which proof of the duties having been paid was refused to them, agreed to pay 20,0001. on the express terms and conditions, that their goods should be restored to them, and that all legal proceedings against them should cease. That the latter part of this proposition was at first opposed, but was ultimately agreed to, on your memorialists insisting to proceed to trial, and their goods were in consequence re stored to them." Now he wished to know whether this was true,—whether, in a case where, if the witnesses were to be believed, conviction m ust inevitably have ensued, the smuggled goods had been given up, were throw n i nto the market, and were now selling in London, at the very season when such articles must come most decid e dly i n competilion with fabric s of British manufacture? The Right Hon. Gentleman had studiously avoided one branch of the trade, that of Coventry, which was most depressed, been a gr a d ua l, and his selection of the five y ear s before 1824, an d five r . t. There hail years after 1526, leaving out the intermediate years, did not support his argument. steady, and progressive i ncrease of the silk trade u p to 1826, but from that period the decrease was manifest. Mr. KEARSLEY condemned the whole of the pro ceedings of Ministers with respect to the silk trade. The Right Hon. Gentleman might have saved him se lf t h e trouble of making a l on g s p eech, which would not con vince any person, and have contented himself with de claring that the interests of the manufactures were " fructifying" in the p ockets of the Adm inistration.— (Laughter.) He believe d that there was not a merchant in the metropolis who placed the least confide nce i n suc h a noodle and doodle Administration." (Great laughter.) I Sir. HAYWOOD was of opinion that the distress which prevailed in some of the districts where the silk manufacture was carried on did not proceed from foreign competition, but was in a great degree attributable to the extension of machinery for the manufacture of silk in Nlanchester. Air. BARING approved the conduct of the Right. lion. Gentleman in granting the Committee, which, in his opinion, ought to be armed with very extensive powers. It was very clear from the statements which had been made that much distress was felt in Spitalfields, Coventry, Macclesfield, and Congleton ; and the only consolation they hal was that which they had received from the Honourable Member for Lancashire, namely, that if the silk trade were declining elsewere, it was getting better i❑ Manchester. It was, however, very clear that they could not interfere to prevent the improvement of trade in one place, though that improvement might be de trimental to another. If 11lanchester bad deprived Co ventry of its trade, however desirous they might be to afford individual relief to persons who suffered from the change, still they could only view it as a partial, and not a general calamity. The Right Hon. Gentleman had told them of the prosperity of the silk trade generally; but that was an assertion entirely at variance with the statements of the petitioners. He had asserted that the exportation of silks had increased from 100,0001. to 500,0001. But how was the statement borne out, when they found the 31. 6d. debentures granted on exportation of so little value that they were sold for id. There could be no doubt that smuggling was carried on to a very great extent. The fact was, that the higher classes would scarcely look at English silk. Formerly smuggling was not pursued by reputable houses ; but latterly it was noto riously known that those which were called the most re spectable houses were deeply engaged in those trans actions. He admitted, that under the management of the late Mr. Rose, our whole system of trade pre sented a mass of absurdity and incongruity, and it was considered a very important point to get rid of those ab surdities, for the purpose of coming to what was called " free trade." In that principle he agreed to a certain extent ; but, when he said this, he disclaimed being bound down by words, and expressions, and cant terms.—(Hear, hear.) It was impossible to decide upon every case con nected with trade by adhering to one rule, without look ing to all the collateral circumstances.—.(Hear, hear.) He well knew that there were some cases to which a ge- neral theory or principle could not apply ; and he con ceived himself to be very hardly dealt with when he was selected as the only person to be taunted as being bigetted and prejudiced against those principles of free trade. The very first article to which they proceeded to apply the new principle was that of silk; and when they came to consi der it, they found that it involved points of the utmost de licacy. It was not a new and unsettled trade with which they had to deal, but an old established manufacture, on the prosperity of which thousands and thousands depend ed ; and the question was, whether the " purists" should come in and sweep it all away?—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Huskisson, he was aware, came down to the House after the Bill on this subject bad passed, and produced calcula tions to show, while the people were starving, that they ought not to be starving.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman in like manner attempted to prove that the whole was a mistake, and that no such thing as a depression of the silk trade existed. He could not con ceive with what degree of fairness the Right Hon. Gentle man had left out of his calculation 1824 and 1825, years in which the Right Hon. Gentlema❑ admitted that a great start had taken place in the trade. These were the two very years in which the manufacturers prospered most, and they now claimed to be placed in the same situa tion as that in which they then stood. There was then little or no duty on the raw material, and there was a prohibition on the foreign manufacture. This was the case at that time, and that was what the manufacturer wanted now. It had been argued, that by admitting this principle of free trade, articles could be got at a much cheaper rate. But if while 1,0001. were saved in that way, they thereby threw the people out of employment, and added 10,0001. to the poor-rates at home, was it not evidently their interest to deal with the British manufacturer? But if they adopted the system which was forced on them with all that presumption and arrogance which the pure philo sophers manifested, they would be answerable for all the degradation and all the moral consequences which must flow from following a particular system implicitly without looking to the attendant circumstances. An HON. MEMBER said, that in Manchester there were only ten mills fully employed, and that could not accomet for the number of mills that were doing nothing in Con gleton and Macclesfield. Mr. ATTWOOD was astonished et Ministers taking a course to-night which, when the situation of the glove trade was brought forward a fortnight ago, they had con demned. At that time they said the glove trade of Yeovil was not affected, and therefore they would not grant a Committee; and now they declared because the silk trade of Manchester was not injured, that they would agree to a Committee.—(Hear.) The Ministers said that an in quiry into the glove trade would have excited false hopes, and therefore they would not accede to it. Why, then, should they grant a Committee in this case, which was equally liable to that objection? He denied that over trading had been the cause of the distress under which the silk manufacturers of this country laboured, but that it had been principally occasioned by the opening of the market to French manufacturers. He entered his protest against the principles of free trade,—denied that the House was pledged to those principles,—contended that it was the duty of the House to inquire into the calamity and the distress which had been caused by carrying such principles into operation,—and maintained, that if upon due inquiry it shoula be found, as he was confident it would, that such had been the cowequence of the adop tion of those principles, the Legislature was bound to take care that no more calamity should befall the country, by not proceeding further in such courses.—The Hon. Member's speech was delivered amidst continued and con siderable interruption, coughing, cries of " Question, question," and of " Oh, oh." Mr. C. GRANT did not deem it necessary to answer those parts of the Hon. Gentleman's speech which he had not been able to hear ; for the House, knowing that the Committee was granted, had certainly evinced no desire to listen to the speech of the Hon. Gentleman—to that annual oration which be had been in the habit of delivering himself during the last six years.—(A laugh.) Any one who should have entered the House while the Hon. Gentle man was speaking, and who might not be aware that a Committee was granted, would imagine from the tone of the Hon. Gentleman that inquiry had been altogether re fused by the Government. In fact, the Hon. Member's speech must have been intended as an answer to a resist ance to the motion on the part of Government, and com ing effete with it down to the House, he could not avoid disburdening himself of it. In no other way was it possible to account for the tremendous array of com mon places with which the Hon. Member bad favoured them on this occasion. —(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gen tleman had told the Government that they ought to in quire into the grievances of which the people cern plained. Why the Government were ready to do so. His Right Hon. Friend, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, assented to the appointment of a Committee of Inquiry, and there was therefore no necessity on this oc casion for the unprovoked,—the gratuitous and generous eloquence of the Hon. Gentleman.—(A laugh, and cries of " Hear.") He did not feel called upon to vindicate his la mented friend Mr. Huskisson against the attacks of the Hon. Gentleman. To his late lamented friend was attri butable the practical wisdom of the last ten years, and be had the merit of applying great principles to great emer gencies, and to the march of events. Adhering as he (Mr. Grant) did to all those great principles of his late Right Hon. Friend, not surrendering one of t hose p rinci p l e s, he perfectly agreed with his Rig ht Hon. Friend near him in the propriety of acceding to this motion. Sir R. VYVYAN said that this was a triu m p h of which those who had been for fi v e yea rs co ntendin g for in q uir y might jauesetelydepdrotu)di.nquTirlyre, and t he of R E i r g ig h l t andhad at length be justly Hon. G e ntleman opposite, who a fortnight ago had expressed him. self against it, had now become a convert to the propriety of inquiry. Mr. HUNT was certain that if Mr. Huskisson were living be would make a speech the very opposite of that which had been just delivered by the Right Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Grant). Lord EASTNOR approved of the Committee being granted, but thought an equal meed of justice ought to be afforded to the glove trade, there being no difference in the circutnstances of the two branches of trade. Lord ALTHORP said, that there did not exist a great distinction between the glove and the silk trade. If the Government agreed with his Noble Friend (Earl Grosve nor) in giving the Committee, still his Right Hon. Friend, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, had stated the principle on which that Committee was to be granted, and the argument bad no reference to the state of the glove trade. Hi s Right Hon. Friend had said, that the reason why Government agreed to the Committee was, not on account of distress in that branch, but in order to inquire into certain facts. One of those facts was, to know whe ther the distress of the silk trade was to be attributed to ernuggling. It was well known that smuggling went on in silk as a regular trade, and that there was an insurance office established in Paris for that purpose. No such facts, however, existed as to the glove trade. It was also ridiculous to apply the term free trade to one so protected as the silk trade was; and indeed so minute was the dif. ference between the two manufactures, that officers had frequently gone into rooms where they knew there were both French and English . goode,.•but durst not make a seizure, from incapacity to distinguish between them. Earl GROSVENOR then replied, when the question, as amended, was put and carried. _ _ Earl GROSVENOR then proposed the Members of the Committee, which were nearly as follows: Earl Grosvenor Sii Grey Skipwith Mr. Bulwer I Sir R. Peel Alderman Venables Mr. Sadler Mr. Strutt Mr. Stuart, of Wigtoun Sir H. Parnell Mr. Sanford Mr. A. Baring Sir M. S. Stewart Mr. F. Buxton Lord Dudley Stuart Mr. F. Lewis Mr. Hume Mr. George Bankes Mr. P. Thornton Mr. Denison Mr. Heywood Lord Milton Mr. Sheil Mr. Courtenay Sir IL Vyvyan. Mr. Hyde Villiers Lord ALTHORP then proposed that four additional names be added to the Committee. Amongst them were those of Mr. LITTLETON, Mr. WARBURTON, and Mr. MORRISON. Earl GROSVENOR objected to the addition, not from any personal feeling against the gentlemen named, but from the impression, on the pert of those whose interests he had to-night advocated, that these were names pledged to the free trade system. An extremely desultory conversation ensued, the result of which we believe to have been, that the nomination of the Committee was postponed. REMEDIES AGAINST THE HUNDRED. Lord G. LENNOX obtained leave to bring in a Bill to extend the provisions of an Act of the 7th and Bth George IV. relative to remedies against the hundreds. Lord W. LENNOX had great pleasure in supporting the measure, as be thought the same protection ought to be extended to the farmer as to the manufacturer. Could there be a greater anomaly than that which existed at the present moment? If a thrashing-machine belonging to a farmer is broken by rioters, no relief is afforded him. On the other hand, if the house or furniture is destroyed, he is immediately compensated. He thought, too, that by throwing the expense upon the hundred, many might be debarred from the disgraceful outrage of destroying thrash ing machines, which too often occurred from personal pique towards the farmer. Under these circumstances he would support the Bill. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at One o'clock. NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. PLYMOUTU, MARCH I.—The Firebrand, steam-vessel, Lieut. Smith Griffith, appeared off port on Monday, on her way to Falmouth. She returned yesterday from Fal mouth, having received her new Commander, Lieut. T. Baldock—Lieut. Griffith having joined the Swallow. The Firebrand is to take the next mail to Malta. The Ferret, 10 guns, arrived on Saturday from the Mediterranean. The Jupiter is to be commissioned in the room of the Ceylon. The Hermes steam-vessel, is ordered to take the crew of the Ceylon to Leith to bring round the Jupiter. The Nimrod, 18, Commander Raiford, will be paid off on Monday next into ordinary, and not for recortimisi,ion ing, as was reported some days since. In Hamoaze—San Josef, Harrier, Nimrod, Pike, Rom ney, Ceylon, and Echo steam-vessel. At the Island—Savage, Leveret, and Pantaloon tender. In the Sound—Caledonia, Ferret, and Arab transport. It is reported that the Messenger steamer has been put out of commission, in consequence of the seizure of to bacco on board her on her late return from the Mediter ranean, and that Lieutenant Aplin, her Commander, has been fined. His Majesty's ships Grampus and Ethalion are fitted at Woolwich to receive cholera patients. His Majesty's packet sloop Pigeon, Lieutenant Binney, arrived on Thursday at Falmouth, from Brazil—left Rio 27th, and Cape Frio 31st December, with the mails and specie, 120,000 dollars ; 4,000 from the wreck of the Thetis, and the remainder on account of merchants. The operations of the diving.bell on the Thetis was soon ex pected to close, on account of the depth of water, and the amount of the treasure recovered latterly being small. Commercial affairs in the Brazils did not appear in the most flourishing condition, owing to a want of competence in the Regency ; all was quiet at the time of the departure of the packet, but much dissatisfaction existed among the soldiers. On the 16th the Pigeon fell in with, in 40. S. N., long. 31. 43, W., the Ryhan de Portug 11, with Don Pedro and his squadron, about a day's sail from Terceira. The Spey packet, Captain James, arrived at Falmouth, on Saturday, six days from Lisbon. By her, we learn, that 20,000 Spanish troops have appeared on the frontiers of Portugal, to assist Don Miguel, in case of need, on the landing of Don Pedro. His Majesty's brig Rinaldo arrived at Bahia, from Fal mouth, 11th December. His Majesty's ship Rattlesnake arrived at Buenos Ayres, from Rio Janeiro and Mente Video, 11th NoveniEL.r. His Majesty's ship Gannet sailed from Port-au-Prince, for Jamaica, 6th December. _ . - , His Majesty's ship North Star arrived at Port-au -Prince, from Bermuda, 18th December. His Majesty's ship Comet sailed from Sydney (New South Wales, for Bengal, 22d September. His Majesty's ship Undaunted, front the Mauritius, for the Cape of Good Hope, was spoken with 12th Dec., in lat. 30. 35. S , long. 42. 33., E. His Majesty's ship Philomel sailed from Gibraltar, for Marseilles, 2d February. His Majesty's ship Sapphire arrived off Maranbaut front Bermuda, Dec. 25. His Majesty's ship Challenger arrived at Bengal from Madras, Sept. 18. His Majesty's brig Tyrian arrived at Barbadoes from Falmo , ith, Jan. 14. His Majesty's ship Ringer sailed from Barbadoes on the 7th of January, and Winchester and Pallas ou the 16th ditto, all for Jamaica. His Majesty's ship J iseur arrived at the Cape of Good Hope from Mauritius, Dec. 1. His Majesty's ship Southampton arrived at Madras on the 17th of September, and the Satellite sailed thence on a cruise on the 21st. His Majesty's brig Skylark, for Rio Janeiro, was spoken with Dec. 26, lat. 15, long. 20 47. His Majesty's ship Tweed arrived at Madeira from Ports mouth Jan. 16, and sailed for Bermuda Jan. 19. Night ingale from Falmouth, Jan. 17, and sailed for Brazils Jan. 18. Briton from St. Michael's, Jan. 25, and sailed again for St. Michael's, Jan. 28. Fly, from Plymouth, Feb. 2. His Majesty's ship Wsrspite arrived at Rio de Janeiro from the Cape of Good Hope, 9th December. Reindeer from Falmouth, 15th, and sailed for Buenos Ayres 17th ditto. The Rinaldo from Falmou th, 19th ditto. His Majesty's ship Childers arrived at Lisbon from Ports mouth, 13th February. His Majesty's ship Victor sailed from Lisbon for Hali fax, 16th February. The Amethyst, Thompson, from this port, arrived at Bahia 15th December; and Neptune, Laing, 16th ditto. The Tantivy, Cross, of this part, sailed from Genoa for Smyrna, sth Feb. The Argo, Billing, of this port, ar rived at Sydney, N.S.W. from New Zealand, 19th Sept. The Lady Emma, Clark, arrived at Gravesend from St. Michael's, 29th Feb. The Catherine, Wilson, from this port, has arrived at Corfu. The Violet, Black, from this port, arrived at Lisbon, Ist February. The Eliza, Milne, from this port, arrived at Oporto 30th January. The Marshal Blucher, Davis, of this port, arrived at Penzance from St. Michael's 21st Feb. The Mexico, Smith, from this port for Boston, put into Bermuda 25th Dee., in distress. The City of Exeter, Lang, from this port, ar rived at Lisbon 16th February ; and Maria, Squire, 17th. The Catherine, Peyton, from this port, arrived at St. Michael's 27th Jan. appointment cani o lo f t rail Counttobiet the A Y subjectV E N AL o f t to the e m h T a s h s y e of Madrid h speculation in the diplomatic circles. N. de RAI VENAL has for a long time been connected •It w ith th e Royalists,— with the priest or the con • gtegation party in France. He was the intimate friend of Prince POLIONAC, and would have succeeded the Prince in the London mission bad it not been for some scruples about the extent to which he, being an upstart, would be agreeable to the Court of GEORGE IV., and the English aristocracy. He was, however, appointed to the important embassy of Vienna, and was there (if we remember right) when the fatal or dinances of July, 1830, were issued. He is still said to maintain intimate relations with a few of his old royalist friends, and therefore some surprise is felt at his employ ment under the PERIER ministry, Without, however, going out of the way to discover a mystery, when a plain reason lies before us, we may conclude that M. de RAT NEVAL has now become more liberal in his opinions, by the light of the late revolution ; and that being a man of great dexterity and extensive experience, he is select arded for a mission which must be surrounded with peculiiffi culties at the present moment, and in the present relations between the Courts of Madrid and Lisbon.— Times. A SOLITARY POACHER. —It appears by a Parliamentary Return, ordered by the House of Commons, that there is but one individual imprisoned in Ireland for a breach of the Game Laws. This man's name is JOHN GINLAY, and he has been committed at the suit of the Stamp-office, from the Petty Sessions Court, Monaghan.— Dublin Morning RegiOrr. TITHES.-IRELAND. REPORT. The Select Committee appointed to Inquire into the Collection and Payment of the Tithes in Ireland, and the State of the Laws relating thereto, and to report the Ob servations thereupon from time to time to the House, have considered the Matter referred to them, and have agreed upon the following,—their First Report : In the prosecution of the inquiries of your Committee into the sery important subject which has been entrusted to them, evidence has been adduced to established beyond a doubt the existence of an organized and systematic opposition to the payment of tithe in several parts of Ire land. In some instances it appears that this opposition has been accompanied and enforced by acts of violence ; but in most it appears to have been effected by a species. of passive resistance to the operations of the law, in which the inhabitants of whole parishes, some voluntarily, and some from intimidation, have been induced to join. The protection of the military and police, so far as it is authorized by the existing laws, appears to have been afforded by the clergy of the Established Church in their endeavours to enforce their legal rights ; but your Com mittee regret to be compelled to add, that while the as sistance thus afforded has led to collisions with the peasantry, deeply to be lamented in their immediate as well as in their ulterior results, the object sought has been only very partially attained. Although, under warrants of distress, payment of the demand has been in some instances enforced, such cases bear a very small proportion to those in which the evasion of the law has been successful. The nature of the opposition given is such as to elude the mere applica tion of physical force, so long as the law remains unaltered : and it appears that the clergy, unwilling to risk the effu sion of blood in attempts, probably unavailing, to recover their dues, have latterly so far acquiesced in the total ces sation of their income, as to abstain from taking active steps, and to await with patience the decision of Parliament. In making, however, this temporary submission to the dictates of an imperious necessity, it is in evidence that many of them have been reduced to a state of the deepest pecuniary distress; and that more especially in the dio ceses of Ossory and of Leighlin,. in which the opposition to the payment of tithe commenced, and in that of Cashel, several clergymen, with large nominal incomes, are in actual want of the ordinary comforts of life. Your Committee cannot but be of opinion that they should be wanting in their duty which they owe to the House, were they to postpone, till the final close of their inquiries, calling the attention of Parliament to the dis tressing circumstances in which a highly respectable class of men are placed by the success of the combination to de prive them of their legal income ; and suggesting such temporary measures of relief as in their view appear cal culated to meet the exigency of the case. But however strongly your Committee might have been led to this conclusion by the circumstances to which they have already referred, they feel that there are other con siderations connected with the same subject, which yet more imperiously press for the early attention of Parliament. Your Committee are deeply impressed with the danger which must threaten the whole frame of society if a combination against a legal impost be permitted ultimately to triumph over the provisions of the law. They cannot but feel how small is the step from successful resistance to tithe to r e sistance to rent and taxes; and how great is the temptation held out by the experience of such success in one case, to a similar opposition to the payment of other pecuniary demands. If the sanctity of the law be systematically violated, if the proof be once afforded that turbulence leads directly to relief, and that popular combination is sufficiently power ful to overbear legitimate authority, the most effectual se curity of all property is shaken, the framework of Go vernment and of society is disorganized, and a state of con. fusion and anarchy must ensue. Your Committee have too much reason to apprehend that the general success which has hitherto attended the re sistance to tithe, has already given proof of its tendency to produce this effect. Not only is the opposition to that species of property rapidly extending, not only has the same religious scruples which have been urged with re spect to ecclesiastical tithes, but intimidation and violence of a similar character have, in some few instances, been manifested against the recovery of the landlord's rent : and your Committee are deeply impressed with the necessity of resorting, without delay, to such measures u may enable the executive Government, by a vigorous interposition of its authority, to put a stop to a system ruinous to the tran quillity and welfare of the empire. In recommending, however, to the consideration of the House, the adoption of immediate measures for the en forcement of the law, and for relieving the urgent dis tresses of the clergy, your Committee cannot shut their eyes to the absolute necessity of any extensive change in the present system of providing for the maintenance of the Ministers of the Established Church. Into the details of such a change, involving, as it necessarily must, the most complicated interests, and considerations of peculiar delicacy, your Committee are not, at the present stage of the in quiries, prepared to enter; but they do not hesitate to ex press their opinion, that such a change, to be satisfactory and secure, must involve a complete extinction of tithes, including those to lay impropriators, by commuting them for a charge upon land, or an exchange for, or an invest ment in land ; and while the revenues of the Church are thus effectually secured, the clergy should, as far am possible, be removed from all pecuniary collision with the occupying tenants of the land. Your Committee have thought it necessary, thus early in their inquiries, to express the strong conviction on their minds of the necessity of such a change, not less for the security of the Church, and the interests of religion, than for the tranquillity and contentment of Ireland, while they accompany this opinion by an equally strong expression of the necessity of strengthening the hands of the Govern ment for the suppression of an illegal and dangerous combination. Your Committee, looking at the proved inadequacy of the present legal remedies to meet the exigency of the case; to the distress of the clergy ; to the danger arising from an unchecked resistance to legal demands ; and to the pre cedents in cases of similar resistance, in Ireland ; are of opinion, that it is expedient that the Lord Lieutenant, with the advice of his Privy Council, should be authorised to advance out of the Consolidated Fund, to the incumbents of benefices of which:the tithes or tithe Composition may have ben withheld, or to their representatives, upon a pe tition, verified by affidavits, sums of money proportioned to the incomes of each, according to a scale diminishing as those incomes increase. Th it, as a security for the repayment of the sums so to be advanced, Government should be empowered to levy, under an Act to be passed for this purpose, the amount of the tithes or tithe composition, due for the arrears of the whole or any part of the preceding year, without prejudice to the claim of the clergy for any arrear which may be due for a longer period ; reserving to itself, in the first instance, the amount of such advances, and paying over the remain ing balance to the legal claimant. Your Committee would:strongly recommend, however, that the execution of tneasures of severity, resting for their justification upon the pressing necessity of the case, should e e m s t n i o n t t i o c e e s tr v e h c i h n c a n eachbe given v o i f d t o h a e l p i b n e fr e p i i h t e i c o : e n d t e h d t a o t b y a carry du fu c th t ll ion should he made in favour of all persons who, after such notice, may voluntarily pay in the amount of the debt due by them respectively: and that provisions to that effect should be introduced in any Act which the Legislature may think fit to sanction, in pur suance of the recommendations of your Committee, Your Committee, in the mean time, will devote their unremitting attention to the prosecution of the important inquiries intrusted to them by the house ; b ut t h ey earnestly entreat the house to bear in . mind, that th e satis factory operation and permanent maintenan ce of any plan that can be adopted must depend upon m a t ure previous consideration of its practical details. .An arrang ement i s to be made, not mere l y of a prospectve nature, and at taching to new and unsettled relations between parti es concerned, but an arrangement by which existing, and frequently conflicting interests, a re t o b e a ff ected, and country'wthich i wherein obe s ti on peculiarly throughout in compli cateda and various its character. Your Committee ven ture, however to express a hope that the ultimate result of their inquiries may be the establishment of a provision for the clergy, more easy of collection than the present, less burdensome to the occupying tenant, and, above all, more productive of that harmony and good feeling between the clergyman and his parishioners, which, especially in Ire land, are essential to the interests of religion, and to the peace and prosperity of the empire. I regret to be forced to state that the cholera has appeared in Bristol. The person attacked was a sailor, from Newcastle, or as some say, Rotherhithe. We do not know that he had been accustomed to drunkenness, but most sailors are of idle habits. The deceased had all the appearances described as the cholera. Ile was quite blue, and had had a looseness in the bowels some days. The poor fellow was visited by our Board of Health, about 24 hours before his death, and they have since declared it was the genuine cholera. I really believe it to be all humbug, but it will have the effect of greatly injuring our commerce and frightening our old women. —(From a Cor respondent.)