The Sun. — London, England, 1822-03-13 00:00:00

tAL the on. We In ita- eti- :es hat Ellis us ' - ing se t Tiil hoist viii. .1.• a I, 4 4I 2 2f eign. L'lrt. ' qr. Cwt. 0,1 ii 8s 51 Gd 6,1 Oi Utl us o 4 os Gd la 0i of 2s 4d 10s od Os d rood osud S4s 9:s 9SI 14s .. 7i !ALL. ud. 9. ti l ut 33s 3,1 10 1124 1110 s . 11 ;$ r 01 0$ ]sq. of f Capt. Are' - t sun of ants, to of the ackson, lie Acv. i. Bar- Villiani everend ,evcrend Tiself by : s:veral There ring the c to the Pancrto, fu: merit na Ann , ock liiil, relict of county• lynlouth, r the lu s - ,-. _ . r i l ./1:7? /2 --/--- , .e) aj ( J i t, (.- 4-evil-I i /714-r-j NUMBER. 9219.] WIDOWS' PENSIONS. .ADMIRALTY OFFICE, MARCH 11, 1822. NOTICE is heieby given,That all WIDOWS who receive Pensions from the Charity for the Relief of the Wifows of Commission and Warrant Of ficers of the Royal Navy, must send or bring to this Office, between the 20th and 31st of this Month, the Affidavits re quire,' by the Rules of the Charity, in order to their being inserted on the Pension List, which will be prepared next hlooth, and paid on the 10th of May next. All Letters from Widows, respecting their Pensions, or requesting supplies of Blank Affidavits, Must state the Rank their Husbands held in the Navy. J. W. CROKER. A GENERAL MEETING of WEST INDIA 4 -11. PLANTERS and MERCHANTS will be held at the QTY of LONDON TAVERN, in Rishopsgate-street, on FRIDAY, the 22d day of March instant, on SPECIAL AF FAIRS. The Chair wilt be taken at One o'Clock precisely. WM. HOLDEN, Secretary. PUBLICATIONS. WAR-OFFICE, MARCH I, 18ei. THE ANNUAL ARMY LIST, with an INDEX, is in Course of Publication, and may be had °f T. EGERTON, Bookseller to the Ordnance, at the Mi!i tal.)! Library, Whitehall. This Day was published, price 2s. 6d., B y J. Hatchard and Son, Booksellers, 187, Piccadilly; and . sold by R. Milliken, Dublin, THE SPEECH of the EARL of LIVER *, POOL, delivered in the House of Lords, on Tuesday , le 26th Day of February, 1822, on the Subject of the Agri cultural Distress of the Country, and the Financial Mea sures proposed for its Relief ; with an Appendix, containing several Accounts therein referred to. In a few Days will be published, ANTICIPATION of a forthcoming RE PORT on AGRICULTURE. Inscribed to T. H. GOOCH, Esq. M.P. By a FREEHOLDER. London: Printed for Rudwell and Martin, New Bond street. Speedily will be publisned, ATREATISE ON TENNIS. By a MEMBER of the TENNIS CLUB. London : Printed for Rodwell and Martin, New Bond street. This Day was published, REPORT of a REHEARSAL of an HUN TERIAN ORATION, at the ROYAL COLLEGE of SURGEONS, read to a COMMITTEE of UNDERTAKERS, by WILLIAM WOEFUL, of Fleet-market, with the Curate of Black Fryars at his Elbow, E c. "Now, understanding that the Curate, and your sweet Self, are good at such eruptions, and sudden breaking out of mirth (as it were), I have acquainted you withal, to the cud to crave your assistance, " SHAKESPEARE. London : Published by C. G. Dyer, Co-fiptoti-street, Soho, and sold by all the Booksellers. This Day was published, In Two Volumes, 4to. price 41. 14s. 6d. boards, ADIGEST of the PUBLIC GENERAL STATUTES, from Magna Charta, A.D. 1224-5 to I and 2 Geo. IV. A.D. 1821, inclusive; with an Analytical In dex,Chronological Tables of Statutes , and Soveivisuencisoo, and an Appendix of Schedules and Forms. I3 Y ROBERT PHILIP TYRWHIrr and THOMAS WM. TYNDALE, of the Middle Tcmple. London : Printed for Joseph Butterworth and Son, Law Booksellers, 43, Fleet-street; John Cooke, Ormond quay, Dublin ; and T. Clark, Parliament-square, Edinburgh. IMPROVEMENTS IN SAIL-CLOTH. THE PROPRIETORS of the ANTI MILDEW PROCESS have to announce the follow ing additional Testimonial Messrs. BanwELL•and Co. Feb. 14, 1822. I have the satisfaction to inform you I have had a fore-top. !nut's stay-sail made of unbleached canvas, prepared by you, board the Latona, front London to Shields, during the last four months, in which I experienced very heavy gales of wind, the sail being wet and dry, and often confined in the net, and has no appearance of Mildew. JAMES PATERSON. This is to certify, that the above sail was made by us of Browell and Co.'s prepared caiivas, and that we have this day examined it, and it has no appearance of Mildew. WALKER aud HENWOOD, _ . Feb. 14, 1822. Sail-Makers, Limehouse Hole. The Process is equally applicable to the whitest and dearest as well as to the brownest and cheapest Canvas. It does not in the least diminish the strength, but improves the colour and softness of texture in all. It is effected in a few days, for Five Shillings per Bolt, and is returned, when sent to them, to all parts of the town without expense, the same breadth and length as when received. A red Crown and B, or the Words " Anti-Mildew," are marked in various places to shew th a t the Bolt has undergone Browell and Co.'s Process. — Sail-Cloth of various qualities, which have undergone the Process, may be had at the following houses, viz. Messrs. Ch . almers and Guthrie, 9, Idol-lane; George Brown, 53, Broad -street, Ratcliff; Peter Walker and Co. 310, and 3. Hewers, 276, Wapping; and Walker and Henwood, Lime house Hole. The MURDER of MRS. MARY DONATTY. HATTON-GARDEN.—Yesterday Mr. Donati.y, nephew to the Aleceased, underwent a long private examination before the Sitting Magistrates, at which no persons were allowed to be Present, except Mr. Taylor, the Vestry Clerk of the parish of St. George, Bloomsbury, and two gentlemen of the parish committee, who have taken an active part in investigating this horrid and barbarous murder, and who were also on the Coroner's Jury. William Read, senior, and John Limbrick, arc the officers to whom any particular instruc tions relative to this mysterious murder are intrusted. — The following are the names of some of the witnesses who were summoned to attend, and were in waiting to be called in the outer office :—Sarah Chessie, residing next door to the deceased; Mary Earle, a widow, in the same house; John Wil son, a shoemaker, in the same house; Elizabeth Ryalls, a single woman, living at No. 15, next door to the deceased; Mary Ann Young, the girl who occasionally resided with the deceased ; Sarah Ximenes, a Jewess, living at 27, same street, an intimate friend of the deceased; Harriet Percival, a married woman, living at 25, Millman-place, at the back of the house of the deceased, whoiheard the murderer escape on r the wall; Robert Holbrook, of Broad-street, St. Giles's, a very intimate and confidential friend of the deceased ; John Monk, the con stable of the night, Red Lion-passage ; William Balsam, the patrol ; William Walton,the watchman; and 6 or 7 others: All the witnesses were in attendance from I 1 o'clock till half-past 1, during which time no person was examined but Mr. Donal ty ; but so secret was the examination, that not a single word was suffered to transpire, and none of the witnesses were called, but dismissed ssith word that they would have notice whet► to attend again. However, the officers above-named received some instructions which they were immediately dis patched to execute. 'llse body of the deceased is cothned, and the house locked up, and the key in the possession of the officers. The Magistrates have received a letter from the Secretary of State for the Home Department, with instruc tions, we understand, to offer a large reward for thediscovery of the murderer, unless there be such a clue already as will supersede the necessity.—(Morning Paper.) r'~ ~..~- J y !~ L .~vl~ PARLIAMENT, HOUSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY, MARCH 12. MARRIAGE SETTLEMENTS. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE held i Petition which had been put into his hands by a person with whom he was not acquainted. It adverted to a Bill lately introduced by a Noble Friend of his (the Earl of Blesinton) into the House, stated that the Petitioner had been ruined by the loss of Marriage Settlements, and prayed that their Lordships would revise the law on Marriage Settlements.—Read and laid on the table. TITHES• The Marquis of LANSDOWNE gave notice, that on Friday next, a Noble Friend of his, a Noble Duke not now in - torn would present a Petition from an opulent body in Ireland on the-impor tant subject of Tithes. He (the Marquis of Lanidowne) should also have a Petition of a similar nature to present. NAVY FIVE PER CENTS. The Earl of LivEneooL in moving the second reading of the Navy Five per Cents. Bill should shortly explain the grounds on which he thought the measure should be entertained, being con vinced that a concise statement was more intel- ligible than an attempt to enter into compli cated details. He should therefore not trouble their Lordships with a single word respecting the expediency of the measure, as all must con cur in the opinion that it was the duty of Go vernment to adopt such a course whenever it be came fairly in its power to do so. When the Five per Cents. Stock had been created, it had been on the condition that it should not be paid off until twenty-five millions of the National Debt had been discharged. All knew that in 1792 the Four per Cents. had reached such a price, that it would have been in the power of the Government to redeem them. This opera tion, however, had been postponed for a year, on the firm conviction of the continuance of peace, but had been prevented by the break ing out of the war. ' The Four per Cents. had therefore been once in the situation of being redeemed, but the Five per Cents. never had. The question to be now considered was, whether the required reduction of 25 millions of the Na tional Debt had taken place. This, he contended, could be proved to have occurred in two different ways. The intention of the Act was that 25 millions of the National Debt should be redeemed from the period at which the Five per Cent. Stock had been created. Now between that period and 1793, ten millions of the National Debt had been paid fr o_, and cao other millions had been redeemed, making to gether a larger sum than, that required to justify the present measure. Besides this, another opera tion had ocourrcd wring the war, which might be taken as a positive reduction of the National Debt. He meant the Redemption of the Land Tax. No doubt could, therefore, be entertained of twenty-five millions of the National Debt hav ing been redeemed either way, since the crea tion of the Five per Cents. But this condition having been fulfilled,other objections were started. It was said that the 16th and 25th of Geo. 11. provided that the Three per Cent. Annuities should not be paid off, except one year's notice had previously been given to their holders ; and it was attempted to be inferred that the holders of Five per Gent. Stock were entitled to the same notice. But this he denied. The regulation affected the Three per Cents. alone, and had not been extended to the Five per Cents.: the only condition connected with the latter was, that they should be irredeemable, until twenty-five I millions of the National Debt had been paid off. What better proof could there be of this con dition having been fulfilled than the universal opinion of mankind, and of the holders of Five per Cent. Stock themselves, shewn, as it had been throughout, by the price which that stock had borne ? For when the 3 per Cents. had risen in time of peace beyond 90, the live per Cents. instead of mounting in proportion to 127 or 130, had scarcely ever exceeded 108. Why had they never been so high in proportion as the Three or Four per Cents.? Only because it was known that they had become redeemable. There was not a banker, not a broker in this town, who, if consulted on the subject, would not say that he gave less in proportion for the Five per Cents. because they were liable to be redeemed. lle considered therefore that the question was set at rest, as far as the equitable legality of adopting the measure was concerned. He should now come to the mode of carrying it into effect. In dividuals were allowed to express their dissent, and it was implied that those who signified no dissent, assented. This, he maintained, was perfectly fair, and warranted by precedents esta blished by several Acts of Parliament. It was the principle adopted in the Consolidation Act.— Before that measure had been passed, particular funds were applicable to the discharge of the in terest of particular parts of the national debt.— This Act was to consolidate the whole. It was not in violation of previous arrangements ; but as it occasioned a considerable change in the situa tion of those funds, it was necessary that their holders should be consulted. It was then enact ed that those who should not signify their dis sent of the mode proposed, should be considered as having given their assent. When the Long Annuities had been established, the same prin ciple had been followed. He contended that the present case was one in which no individual could find any difficulty in forming an opinion in a short time, even a shorter time than that proposed by the Bill now before the House. It was the opi- 1 , 1 ( „‘•.‹.\\ L .': 5, • i(!iglfk Oi 0 xi W 7 . 0 * • ft , ---- 0 • 7"' 4, entrofr .•, 2 L ~,,~. SUN. ! gets the money, but a change takes place, and he can pro cure loans at a less interest. He therefore borrows 10,0001. first pays of 5,0001. of the original mortgage, and then comes to the other and tells him, you most be paid off, or must take only four per cent. interest for your money, 'for I have fulfilled the conditions of our contract. Would not the man object that the mortgage had only been paid off by contracting another debt ? If the case were really put to the. Noble Earl on the Woolsack as a judge, he would certainly take some time for consideration, or at least to read the papers. Now the pre sent Bill was not yet printed, and he (Earl Grey) was Obliged even at that moment to speak of it without having read it. All lie claimed for the public was merely to allow time to consider the case in all its details ; and not to admit that as a right which might be doubted. He protested against a mode of arguing the question, which he was astonished to have heard from the Woolsack, that the House were to be guided in their decisions by the public opinion. As to the redemption of the Land Tax, he doubted whether it was a real or constructive fulfil ment of the engagement entered into with the Five per Cent. Stockholders, and an effective reduction of the public bur thens. The Noble Earl then contended that the 16th clause of the 37th of George 111. referred to the 25th of George 11. with respect to the manner -in which Stock should be re deemed, and therefore'placed the Five per Cents. on the same footing, as to the necessity of one year's notice, as the Three per Cents. All he stated was doubt, and all he required from his majesty's Ministers was time to consider the measure. He had no personal interest in the question. All that he desired was fair and open dealing. tl ith respect to the 2d point, that of Dissent, the Noble Earl opposite had stated that the mode which he had proposed was supported by several Parliamentary precedents. It would have been well if the Noble Earl had looked at the precedent established by Mr. Pelham, when he paid off a part of the Four per Cents. It was not the actof dissenting that was required ; but the dissents were to be regularly entered in a book, and their authors became liable to be paid in the order in which they had been inscribed. Was this early payment meant as a threat or a reward ? Whichever it might be, it was a proceeding unworthy of the Minister of a great country to propose, and of the dignity of the House to adopt. Whether the registering of Dissents were intended to place the dissent ing individual in a better or a worse situation, it was inequally unjust, as they all stood, or ought to stand on the same ground of equality. Was it intended to make any change in the value of the stock which they possessed ? An impression . prevailed among the public, that those who should be p a id off first, would be subject to some disadvantage, and many held off en tering their dissent on that account. The authors of the meta , sure might conceive themselves entitled to credit for their dex terity, a quality to which, a more deserved, though a less fa vourable name, might be applied. But he was not much dis posed to admire this dexterity in money transactions.—They ought to be conducted with openness, fair dealing, and sim plicity. All other course was unworthy of the adininistration of a great country. Dexterity was the virtue of the gambler, who took advantage of his antagonist, in order to make unfair gains ; but it was likely to recoil on those by whom it was used. He believed that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would find sonic persons at the Stock Exchange, differing from him perhaps in religion, who wou ld b e s till abler at the game. It was objected to his (Earl Grey's) proposal for delay, that delay might occasion stock-jobbing. He had known of many Go vernment transactions which bore that character, but lie, could perceive no inconv e ni e n ce lik e ly t o ar i se f rom d e l ay , especially if the pictures of general prosperity displayed by the Noble Earl were more real than those with which for so many years he had flattered the country. Ilad any man of gloomy imagination announced, that after enjoying for forty years the Government of the country, after having possessed all the me a n s n ecessar y t o e ff ec t th eir pl ans , an d after having succeeded, as they told the world, the country would be plunged, after seven years of peace, in its present state of distress, and hopelessness, he would have been considered as grossly exaggerating the possibilities of the future. With respect to the peaceful policy adopted by this country, no one could 'be more disposed to support it than himself. But he did not forget that it was the year after Mr. Pitt had postponed the redemption of the Four per Cents. in the conviction...that PUP 'Shwa eoilimeiice between Russia and Turkey, that it would be possible for this country to main tain a state of peace.- But when he considered what that war must be—when' he looked at the situation of Spain and Italy— when he saw all the people of Germany dissatisfied with the governments which, in violation of our solemn engagements, we had assisted our Allies in establishing—when he looked at the State of France under a dynasty which we had imposed upon her, he could not indulge any very sanguine hopes that the peace of Europe should not he disturbed, and that we should not be involved in hostilities. On the 12th of March, within a fortnight or three weeks of the probable opening of the campaign between Russia and the Porte, his Majesty having engaged to interpose his good offices between them, and the deciding day having almost arrived, all that the Noble Earl was able to say, was that if he had to advise the King in making another speech, he would recommend the same lan guage to be used on those. important topics, as on the first day of the Session. Ile (Earl Grey) had never heard any thing less calculated to remove alarm. The Noble Earl hoped that this country would not be involved in war; but was it possible that war should break out between Russia and Turkey, with out deeply affecting the interests of those who were the objects of the present measure? For God's sake then let delay be granted, unless it be wished to entrap those individuals into ruin. And should, on the contrary, the Noble Earl's asser tions of secitee and increasing prosperity be correct, delay would . be found to have clone no harm. Theis, lie thought, were ar guments for granting further time for consideration before the Bill passed into a law. The explanations given on some points had not removed all doubts, and none whatever had been af forded respecting the registering of Dissents. Further time was therefore indispensably necessary. Ile repeated that he had -no interest whatever in the matter, save that the House should consider the subject in such a manner as to put the measure on clear and intelligible grounds,and to shew that it was found ed on undoubted right. The Earl of BARROWBY claimed the attention of the House for a few moments. Without adverting to all the topics introduced by his Noble Friend, he might be allowed perhaps to say, in answer to the arguments of the Noble Earl, that it was no proof of desperation in the affairs of the coun try, - that Government were able to effect a reduction of .1,500,0001. of the public debt. If that was a symptom of distress which ought to lead to despair, he was at a loss to consider what was the sign of prosperity. The Noble Earl then observed that he was ready to apologize for offering any thing on the law of the question, after the decisive opinion given by the Noble and Learned Lord, whose opinion must always be received with the respect of that House. If that opinion was not sufficient to remove the doubts of the Noble Earl, nothing he could say would have weight. He did not endeavour to give a legal opinion, but would state what had been the impression upon his own mind. The Noble Earl looking at the 26th of Geo. 111. contended that the Five per Cent. Stock had not been redeemed, because a new debt was created. The Noble Lord would however find that the Acthad no reference to the mode Of redeeming the public debt. When 25,000,000 of the public debt was paid off, the Five per Cents. were redeemable. It could not be reasonably supposed that Government could pay off so large a sum without contracting a 'new debt, The Sinking Fund Act gave powers which could not interfere 'with the 26th of the late King. It had always been understood in the market, that the Five per Cents. were 'redeemable, or they never would have remained so low ; and he eotildnot see how the proposed redemption was not a bona fide transaction, when it was generally acknowledged to be the terms upon which the stock was to be paid off. There was cer tainly nothing unfair in the mode of paying off the dissents.— Unnecessary delay would lead to more stock: jobbing than had ever been known perhaps in this country. With respect to the question of foreign policy, if Government were of opinion hosti lities would occur, it might be proper to suspend the Bill until the result was known ; but seeing the two Powers had been 12 months negociating, and that they were unwilling to go to war, there could be no pretence for suspending the Bill. If Govern ment were right as to the law, and the terms fair, they ought to conclude the transaction immediately. The plan would enable the country to afford relief upon a scale which financial prosperity required. Lord ELLENBOROUGH was anxious to express his doubts on the question. He found he could not conscientiously agree to the second reading of the Bill.. He was desirous of more in formation on the question whether the operation of the Sinking Fund was at variance with the 26th George 111. The Noble Lord, in the view he then took of all the provisions of the law, was induced to consider the Five per Cents. not redeem able. He not think any doubt could arise on the words of the Act of George 111. but it might be argued that 25,000,0001. were not paid off the public debt. The Noble Lord who last • • . PRICE. SEVENPENCE. addressed the House said, it had been .geaterally: understood that the Five per Cents. were redeemable, witeiv . 25,000,0001. of: the public debt were. paid- off e- but the lionse certainly would not take advantage• of that - understanding, if it was founded in mistake. s If any doubt had arisen,. the stockholder ought to have:the benefit of it. He was not able to come to a conclusion without the doubt was cleared away. Their Lord ships had the power of calling on the. Learned ,Judges, who would decide the point. It was not necessary to postpone the Bill, because after the opinion had been obtained, the standing orders might be dispensed with for the purpose of carrying the measure through the House. The Noble Lord concluded by again stating that he was .not satisfied that the Five per Cents. were redeemable bylaw. The Marquis of LANSDOWN was satisfied the' right of redemption did exist on the part of his Majesty's Ministers, and that the statute of George 111. had been complied with. The Noble Marquis was not desirous of_' detaining the House on those points, but at the same tithe he thought it would be desirable to have the opinions of the Learned Judge*. After stating the impression upon his mind with respect to those points, he was bound to state his objection •13 the form in which the dissents were taken. The Noble Earl, President of the Council, said it was a matter of indif ference how persons expressed their dissent. Ile differed from the view taken by the Noble Earl, and Was satisfied the Stockholder was entitled to the most equitable mode of treatment. According to the present arrangement, they im posed on the Stockholder that which he must consider disad vantageous and compulsory.. The. alternative offered by Mr. Pelham was more favourable. The Noble Marquis had heard no argument against delay which might enable persons to make up their minds, and come to a satisfactory conclusion. Delay would be the most favourable course not only for the .Stock holder, but for the public ; because no loss could accrue to the public between that time and the sth of July. His doubts on the other parts of the Bill had been solved by the Noble and Learned Baron. The Bill was then read the second time, and committed for to-morrow.—Adjourned. WEDNESDAY, MARCH 13, 1822. Dion of all persons conversant with the subject, that sufficient time should be given for individuals to form their opinion, but that consistently with that, the shortest time possible should be given. With respect to the state of foreign affairs, he could only repeat what he bad said yesterday, that if his Majesty had to make another speech, he could not advise him to express himself in any other language than that which he had used at the opening of the Session. He was ready to admit that if the Government of this country were engaged in negociations likely, in a short period, to plunge the nation into a war, the pre sent transaction should be one which ought not to he brought on : but he never knew a time or a moment at which the country was less likely to be involved in hostilities than the present. — He would not say that a thausaud things might not happen abroad, which might- have a tempo rary_effect on the money market ; but he was convinced that that effect could not be permanent. He therefore did not really know when such a measure could be more safely adopted than now. And what was the nature of that measure ? It was one effecting a saving of 1,300,0001. a year, without any inconvenience to the State—it was one which had been looked to for years, and which came accompanied by that which must make it welcome to all parties—an augmented and still increasing revenue. Under all these circumstances, he could see no reason whatever why the House should not concur in the measure; and he firmly believed that it was the opinion of the public, and of persons connected with finan cial transactions, that fair and equitable terms were offered . between the Government on the one hand, and the holders of Five per Cent. Stock on the other. The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that if he had heard nothing of this Bill but from what had passed in that House, and if it had been his opinion that part of the National Debt which it proposed to pay off' was not redeemable by law—he did not mean redeemable by a law now to be made, but by laws already existing—he should have thought it hiS duty.immediately to object to its progress. But he had satisfied himself on that question ; and if he were asked why he took the liberty of ad_ dressing their Lordships at the present moment, he would say that he did so under the impression of the sincere respect which he felt for the doubts expressed yesterday by a Noble Earl (Grey). The Noble and Learned Lord then proceeded to' in t t: state the grounds on which he approved of the measure, e and said, that he firmly , believed that no man - ever before had entertained any doubt of the five per cents. being re deemable. If this opinion had not prevailed, there would, as e s. ee e wcpte market naecnobet ntit7otolora more considering hap c asia e neii dlrb, have ee t bioenn a between gte e , the tit n lhhlewoeli the Noble Earl who had just sat down had observed, have been bu b n e n s :8 though a lae i t ferf p t 7 Ccit e c B eho r en , eu : t3r t si, e h ti. n hsa e i t avor l d s e i f s eh e t ea o r n e d c l n k an c b ; e el aap b ne r e gl e n ecoae i t nt r h r ted e ri t . rEedqueeitmyalb'aled,btleleen in y, ordered stock, in cases of trusts, to be transferred into 3 per cents., without regard to the state in which the testator had left the property.. This liberty would not have been talcen, if it had been supposed that instead of improving the gwririty •-•...- , n it was stipulated that 25,000,0001 01 should be paid off before the S per cents. could be reduced; and it was required by another Act, that one year's notice must he given before the 3 per cents. are paid off. A person, for whose opinions he entertained great respect (Mr. Tierney), it appeared, had expressed in another, place doubts of the le gality of the present measure, in consequence of one year's notice not having been given of an intention to pay off the three per cents. It appeared to him, the want of this notice could give rise to no difficulty, if their Lordships were satisfied that the 25 millions required by law had actually been redeemed. He supposed it would be allowed that the persons who had a title to the 3 per cents. might waive their right to the notice. He did not say that the holders of the 5 per cents. might not have ob.; jetted to such waving. They might have said—lf you do not give a notice of one year to the :3 per cents., we shall not have due notice : but this they had not done. H should be glad to know whether the 24th of Geo. 111. gave any such title to the holders of 5 per cents. That act declared that the stock which it created should not be paid off until 25,000,0001. of the pub lic debt were redeemed. Now, had it been thought necessary that the holders of the 3 percents. should not be allowed to waive their title to a notice, a clause to that effect would have been inserted in the act along with the condition stipulating the previous redemption of 25,000,0001. What could the 5 per cent. holders have to do with the notice to which the holders of the 3 per cents. were entitled, if no clause in the act which cre ated the former stock referred to that notice ? Then, as to the payment of the 25,000,0001., that was stated to have been ac complished in two ways, both by the operation of the Sinking Fund, and by the redemption of the land tax. He must con ' fess, that if their Lordshipi had nothing to guide their judg ment but a reference to the first mode of paying off the debt, they might have some difficulty in interpreting this clause of the act. But they were to consider what . lhe intention of Parlia ment had been. :le could not suppose the Legislature so for getful in passing the act in qUestion, as not to know that debt might be paid off with one hand, and contracted with the other. If he were obliged to give an oPinion on the point, he should say, that if 25 millions were actually paid off and cancelled, the condition was fulfilled. This, he theught,'must be held to have been the understanding of the Legislature, as it was the general understanding. But when the operation of • the redemption of the land-tax was taken into account, there was no doubt of the contract being complete. This much he had said in conse quence of the appeal made to him by the Noble Earl, for whom, he begged to say, he entertained the most sincere respect. As to the practical propriety of the Measure, that was a subject on which he should not trouble' their Lordships with a single . word. He had had no motive for rising but to deliver the opi nion which what bad fallen from . the Noble Earl made it. his duty to express- • Earl GREY disclaimed any wish, to give effect totbe. at . tempts said to have been made to defeat the present nieagute.— His only object was to save the House.froni the stainiwhich• would fall on its character, if, without due consideration, :and with an unusual degree of uncalled for precipitation it should pass a Bill of so important a nature as that before' their-Lord ships. He thanked the Noble Earl on the' WoOlsack:for the: pains which he had taken to clear away the' doubts which he (Earl Grey) had yesterday expressed.. Having every possible interest to see that the' proposed reduction should be carried into effect, and that the Public should be relieVed as' far as, it was practicable, he felt it his duty,.if any doubts remained on. his mind, to state them to the House,.not to induce their Lord-. ships to reject the present measure, but to obtain time for. its due investigation ; and, if necessary, to allow those individuals whose interests were concerned to &fend them at their.Lord a ships' bar. The Noble Earl opposite had admitted that, the Five per Cents. were not redeemable until twenty-five millions of the National Debt should have been paid off. The simple question for their Lordships to consider was, whether twenty five millions had been so discharged as to give Parliament a . right to pay off the Five per Cent. Stock ? Notwithstanding the opinions expressed in the House, he thought that the Act re . - quired 25 millions of National Debt to be bona fide discharged, andnot constructively so. The difficulty had struck the Noble Earl on the Woolsack, although he had declared himself satisfied that the required amount had been cancelled by the operation of the Sinking Fund and the Sale of the Land 'lax. He (Earl Grey) wished ask, whether it was a bona fide reduction of the public burthens, or only a constructive reduction, which would enable Government to say that they had fulfilled the re quired condition ? He would put a case to the Noble Earl on theM'oolsack—Suppose that he (Earl Grey)had dui encumbrance of 10,0001. on his estates in the shape of mortgage, and should wish to raise 5,0001. more. He applies to a person, who says that he is willing to lend the money at five per cent. interest, but insists that he shall not be paid off till 5,0001. of the ori ginal mortgage shall have been extinguished. He (Earl Grey) HOUSE OF COMMONS. Sir A. RAMSAY presented a petition from the Landholders of the county of Kincardine, complaining of agriculturaldis tress, and praying that economy and retrenehMent may be exercised in the departments of public expenditure.—Ordered to be printed. CORN IMPORTATIONS. Mr. RICARDO moved for Returns stating the - amount of monthly importations of corn into the port of London, distin guishing foreign from British, for the years 1819,. 1020, and 1821.—Ordered. LAND TAX BILL. The Order of the Day for going into a Committee on the Land Tax Commissioners-names Bill was postponed to Thurs day next. DISTRESSED LABOURERS. Mr. BENNETT presented a petition from a number of poor labourers of Stratham, in the county of Northampton, complaining of the distresses of the times, which rendered their lives a burthen, and death acceptable, and praying that the house would devise some means of relief.—Ordered to lie on the table. EDINBURGII POLICE BILL. - Mr. J. SMITH presented a petition from a body of indi viduals, incorporated by Royal Charter at Edinburgh, against the Edinburgh Police Bill. This body was a most respectable one, by the name of the Chamber of Commerce, and they re presented the sentiments of the great majority of the inhabi tants of this city. This Bill was considered universally as most injurious and most oppressive. Mr. KENNEDY spoke to the respectability of the peti tioners, and begged to say, he considered the Bill as a most un warrantable attempt to infringe on the ritybf.: -‘• individuals. , _ ~t petitioners against his Bill ....VottO - 6t very few numbers ; whilst he had received the assent of the greater part of the inhabitants. Mr. HUME begged to correct the Hon. Member, by re mindinc, him that every corporate body * in Edinburgh had pe titioned' against this Bill. It was most obnoxious ; and he hoped the House would treat it as it should he when it came again before it. The petition was then ordered to be printed. IRISH WINDOW TAX.' ._ • . Mr. ROBERT SHAW postponed his motion for the re peal of the Irish 'Window Tax, from the 7th to the 24th of April. MALT TAX. Mr. LUSHINGTON brought in a Bill for the repeal of the Malt Tax, which was read a first time, and ordered.for a second reading to-morrow. VAGRANT LAWS. Mr. CHET\VYND called the attention of the House to the subject of a notice he had given for that day, to move for a Bill to consolidate all the existing laws relating . fo the appre hension, punishment, and treatment of vagrants."-Of the ne cessity of having this class of offenders under the correction of the law there could be no doubt, and the inefficient state of the laws relating to them, chiefly owing to their multiplicity and intricacy, too many instances had come under- the know ledge of the House not to shew the necessity of some new ar rangements. He had intended to bring the subject under the consideration of the House last Session, and although he had been prevented, he did not make it cause ofregret, having had so much the more leisure for acquiring information and maturing his plan ; and from the assistance of the Mendicity Society he had derived the most important hir.ts. The object of the Bill he desired to bring in would be, first, to consolidate all the laws on the subject ; and next to define the precise offences which were to subject any person to' the operation of the Statute. He wished to separate the cases of the criminal from the idle and disorderly—the dissolute and sturdy from those that were com paratively innocent, havirr , been driven to a state of vagrancy from necessity, than betaken themselves to it from choice. Of the utility of such arrangement and classification 'there could be no question, when it was remembered that the law made no distinction between prostitutes, ballad-singers, prize-fighters, and the plate holders for a charitable purpose, at a church door. It was highly desirable that there should be an unifor mity of practice among Magistrates throughout the kingdom, and for that purpose it was that he wished to see the laws plac ed within a short compass. - The third object of the Bill would be to specify the punishments for vagrancy, and to adapt them to the present state of society. 'lle would not go.through the old statutes to shew the different punishments enacted, such as branding and burning vagrants, which being now obsolete, it became necessary to change the nature of this punishment with the-changes in society. In acting thus, 'he should lie guided by the opinion of that enlightened Magistrate, Mr. Colquhoun. He had this morning received a letter from a Magistrate, who informed him that the simple expenecs of passing vagrants for one year, for the counties of Berkshire and Wilts, was up wards of 20001. It was plain, therefore, that the interference of legislation was required here. The next point to which his Bill would be directed was, the common lodging-liouses for vagrants, which swarmed in some parts -of the metropolis, and were actually hotbeds for - vice. These he should pro pose to be put under the surveillance of the Police. The Honourable Gentleman concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to facilitate summary proceedings by Justices of the Peace, and others. Mr. GIPPS seconded the motion, but hoped tp.. Bill would not be hurried through the House. Sir I. COFFIN thought such a Bill would be highly useful. Leave was then given. Mr. CHETWYND then moved for leave to brirg in a Bill to regulate the form of conviction in all cases of delinquency under the Vagrant Act. The necessity 'of such a Bill would - be felt when it was known that it was a matter of difficulty even with the greatest lawyers, to draw up the right form of conviction in cases nearly similar. The object of his Bill would be to entabhsh the same form, to meet all convictions cf the same class. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR thought the Hon. Gentleman was entitled to the thanks of the House, for his praiseworthy in tentions and exertions. He feattd, however, he would not be able to frame a statute for the proposed end, so thatsome roguish attorney should not discover a lop-hole by 'which to evade it. Leave was then given. • PUBLIC RECORDS. • Sir J. NEWPORT moved, that the Resolutions of the House of the 7th instant, relating to the Public Records, be submitted to a Committee, in order to carry the intention of the House into effect. . • After a few words from Mr. D. GILBERT - and:gir JOHN