The Sun. — London, England, 1832-03-21 00:00:00

,4 .-•• Zt_ x - _ • t-‘2. t" • .." : • 0 - y , 1:6% r • fi" A\ • kri `LW • t;' , l 4 . 011111; \-.• ( , • 0 /0 4 .4 4. • f...• ,s!-- :0 , rmi vi . ltn •Ir 441, , I. 1"°." 0 , 1 10 , r • EAST INDIA HOUSE, Fax. 9, IBM, TIIE COURT of DIRECTORS o f th e UNITED COMPANY of MERCHANTS of ENGLAND, TRADING to the EAST INDIES "do hereby give Notice, That WEDNESDAY, the 21st March next, having been appointed by Royal Proclamation to be observed as a Pub lic Fast, the QUARTERLY GENERAL COURT of the said UNITED COMPANY, which has been summoned for that day, will be held at their House in Leadenha/1- street, on THURSDAY, the 22d March next, at Eleven o'clock in the Forenoon, instead of on WEDNESDAY, the 21st day of March. (No. 12,331.) LONDON, - WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 21, 1832. (PRICE 7D PETER ALTBER, Secretary. BANK OF ENGLAND, MARCH 13, 1832. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. not, however, hold himself accountable to the Hit. Mem ber for the manner in which lie performed his duties either in that House or in him judicial capacity. After a few observations from Mr. H. GRATTAN, the petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. WEYLAND brought in a Bill to enable Parishes to allot Lands to the Poor, which was ordered to be read a second time on the 1 Ith of April. Captain BARCLAY presented a petition signed by up. wards of 700 artizans of Cheltenham, praying Govern ment to give them the means of emigrating to Canada. Mr. HODGSON presented petitions from the solicitors of Newcastle-upon-Tyne and Gateshead, against the Re gistry Bill. The Hon. Member also presented a petition from South Shields and Weston, praying that they might be permitted to hold the place assigned to them by the Reform Bill. not its parallel in the annals of Parliament. If the Gentlemen on that side of the House had been the cause of delay, the Noble Lord opposite, instead of blaming, ought to be grateful to them for it, as they had profited greatly by the amendments proposed and acceeded to. The Bill was so full of anomalies, that be did not hesitate to say its promises were more glaring and ridiculous than any that existed under the present system of representation. He felt convinced that such a Bill could never produce a fair and equal representation in Parliament What it might produce, he would not pretend to say. But he con sidered it fraught with danger and difficulty.--(Hear, hear.) He, however, did not flatter himself that the present Bill would be rejected by that House. But he trusted that the House of Lords would not stultify themselves with respect to this Bill, but regardless of clamour, reject it, as they had already done the former one. If the present measure passed, the sun of England would be set forever. Such being his opinion, he should give his decided opposition to the measure, and support the amendment of the Noble Lord. Mr. OFFLEY begged most distinctly to deny that any revolutionary feelings existed in the minds of the inhabi t tilts of the city and districts which he represented, or that their dissatisfaction would he exhibited in any such proceedings as had been pictured forth, should the present Bill not immediately produce the happy results which some predicted would follow its enactment. On the very con trary, they felt satisfied that those results would ultimately flow from the measure, and they were content to receive it with that possibility. Mr. HUDSON GURNEY, in a tone of voice which was but very imperfectly heard in the gallery, acknow ledged that though the Bill was one he, for many reasons, utterly disliked, he could not make up his mind so as to feel himself justified in refusing to let it go up to the House of Lords, there to be tried on its merits. Mr. PIGOTT, in reply to the assertion of the Noble Lord, that the agricultural interest had not been unfairly treated by the clauses of the Bill, stated that his impress sion was directly the reverse. The proportion of the agri cultural Members, as settled by this Bill, was 64, whilst those of the manufacturing was 65—and this, too, whilst 100 Members were taken away from that class which might, with great propriety, be said to be representatives of the agricultural interest--namely, those nomination boroughs which the Bill went to extinguish. Taking into consideration the number of boroughs disfranchised, and that there were 65 given by the Bill to the large towns, be con tended the proportion given to the manufacturing was too great, in the proportion of more than two to one. There I a I been but two tests proposed as to the right to the re presentation in Parliament—namely, that of population and that of property. He had carefully compared the re spective values of the two interests, agricultural and manu facturing, and on a reference to the last census, which stated the whole population of England and Wales at about 14,000,000, he felt satisfied that the country, or agri cultural interest, had been saerified by the Bill to the in terest of the towns. THE COURT of DIRECTORS of the GOVERNOR and COMPANY of the BANK of ENGLAND give Notice, That a GENERAL COURT will be held at the Bank, on THURSDAY, the 22d instant, at Eleven o'clock in the forenoon, to consider of a Dividend ; and also that another GENERAL COURT w!ll be held at the Bank, on TuzsnaY, the 17th of April next, from Ten o'clock in the forenoon till Four in the afternoon, for the ELEC TION of a GOVERNOR and DEPUTY GOVERNOR for the Year ensuing (which will be declared that evening), anti the same Court will be continued, by Adjournment, and held at the same place, and during the same hours, on IVEbt,tEsnAv, the 18th of April next, for the election of Twenty-four Directors (which will also he one of the Quarterly General Courts appointed by the Charter), and the Election of the Twenty-four Directors will be declared as soon as the Scrutiny is over. Printed Lists of the Proprietors, having Votes, will be ready to be delivered at the Bank on WEDNESDAY, the 28th March. HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 20. Lord KING presented petitions from Kirkconnell and Gormanstown, county Kildare, against tithes. The Bishop of EXETER presented a petition from an individual in Devon, against the new System of Educa tion in Ireland. On the motion of Lord AUCKLAND, the Tobacco (Irish' Bill passed the Committee, and wag reported without amendment. Lord LORTON presented a petition from the county of Westmeath, complaining that that county was not pro perly protected, and praying that the hands of the 'Magis tracy might be strengthened. The Noble Lord said, the petition was signed by the Lord Lieutenant, and 51 out of 52 Magistrates in the county. The Earl of WICKLOW presented a petition from King's county to the same effect, Mr. MONCK presented a petition from the Licensed Victuallers of the Isle of Wight, praying that they might not be held responsible for property lost in their houses. Mr. HUNT presented a petition from Galway, for an extension of their franchise. In doing so the Honourable Member took occasion to complain of the non-attendance of any of his Majesty's Ministers on the presentation of pe titions. On the motion for the second reading of the Coal Irish Bill— Earl WICKLOW wished to impress upon the House the claims of the petitioners whose petitions were presen ted last night. He meant the coal meters of Dublin. Many of them bought the places, expecting that they would be continued in them for life. He understood also that the meters of London had been compensated, and be thought the meters of Dublin had as good a right. Lord AUCKLAND said that it was unusual to insert compensation clauses in bills of this kind. The practice was for the Treasury to grant compensation after the pat ties had lost their places. Lord ELLENBOROUGII said, no doubt that was the practice that bad been acted upon, but he would only state to the House, that if they pissed this Bill without a compensation clause. upon the under standing mentioned by the Noble Lord, they could not afterwards interfere. If he recollected right, the meters of London had ben compensated to the amount of 13,0001., and he saw no reason why the meters of Dublin should be put on a different footing. Viscount STRANGFORD wished to ask of the Noble President of the Board of Trade whether he had re eeivcd any official information from the French Govern ment if it was intended that the tonnage on British ship ping arriving in French ports was to be reduced ? Lord AUCKLAND was rather taken by surprise by the question of the Noble Lord, but had no hesitation in saying that he had received no official information on the subject, but he expected it every day, and he believed the plan was to be that the tonnage dues should be re duced to one-third, so as to make them equal to the har bour dues. JOHN KNIGHT, Secretary. N.B. By an Act passed in the 7th year of the reign of George 111., no person will be entitled to vote at the said Election who shall not have been six calendar months possessed, in his own right, of the Stock for which he shall then give his vote, unless the said Stock shall have been acquired, or shall have come by bequest, or by mar rla;e, or by succession to an intestate's estate, or by the cultom of the City of London, or by any Deed of Settle "tint, after the death of any person who shall have been en titled for his life to the Dividends of such Stock. Mr. WILKS presented a petition from the Swallow street Widows' Friendly Society, against certain parts of the Friendly Society Act. Mr. DIXON presented a petition from the President, Vice-President, and Members of the Political Union of Glasgow in favour of the Scotch Reform Bill. Mr. HUNT observed that the Political Union of Paisley considered themselves grossly deluded by the present Bill. NEW NOVELS BY DISTINGUISHED WRITERS. In Three VOls. post Bvo. ADVENTURES of a YOUNGER SON. Mr. DUNDAS had no doubt that the members of Political Unions were in favour of this Bill ; but persons of property and the whole of the landed interest of the country were decidedly against it. Lord MILTON presented a petition from a parish in York in favour of the Factories' Bill. In Three Vols. poet Bvo. EUGENE ARAM. By the Author of "Pelham," " Paul Clifford," &c. " A work abounding in excellencies."—Examiner. Mr. WESTERN presented a petition from the silk manufacturers of Essex, praying that they might be ex empt from the operation of the Factories' Bill. The Hon. Member also presented two other petitions from parishes in Essex against the Bill. Mr. DUNDAS moved for a return of all foreign wines imported during the last year, with the rate of duty. Mr. DIXON postponed his motion relative to New South Wales till Friday next. Mr. HUNT said that as it was past five o'clock, and as none of his Majesty's Ministers were in the House, and as, consequently, the House had nothing to do, he should move an adjournment till Thursday next. He did not think it was very courteous to the ?louse for none of the Members of Government to be present during the pre sentation of petitions. In Three Vols. post Sao. SIR RALPH ESHER; Or Adventures of a Gentleman of the Court of Charles 11. very clear and life-like picture of the chief actors and acts O i the great dtama of tho‹e stirring timeg."—Athenmurn. in Three Vols. post Svo. T II E O P E R A. By the Author of " Alothers and Daughters." A well told t a l e o f f as hi ona bl e lif e com b ine d wit h a power . four interesting story of romance."—Cheltenham Chronicle. The Marquis of SALISBURY enquired whether the Commission on the Poor Laws had yet been appointed ? and whether there would be any objection to lay a copy of the Commission and instructions on the table? Lord MELBOURNE said the Commission had been competent, and he was aware of no objection to what the Noble Lord had stated. THE ZEMINDAR OF NOZEED. v. Also just ready, in Three Vols. post Svo. ROMANCE OF THE EARLY AGES. By the Author of "Brambletye House," tke. VI. In Three Vols. post Svo. THE DAYS OF CHIVALRY. By the late BARRY ST. LEGER, E.q. Henry Co'burn and Richard Bentley, New Burlington- Itteet. Mr. H. HUGHES obtained leave to bring in a Bill to explain and amend an Act, relative to the passing sentence of death on convicted felons. Mr. HUME was sorry to learn that a new series of pro secution under the six Acts had been commenced. He wished to know whether his Majesty's Attorney General had been apprised of them. Counsel were heard in support of the second reading of the Bill for affording compensation to the Z.mindar of Nozeed from the E ist India Company, and Counsel were also heard against the Bill ; after which NOTICE TO FAMILIES, TAVERN-KEEPERS, AND THE TRADE. NOW on Sale, at CART ER and Co.'s, 2, Cheapside, near St. Paul's, Ninety Pieces of BRUSSELS CARPETING, the best quality ever manu factured, price 3x. 10,1. per yard. N.B. Many of the Patterns have been drawn at a very great expense, an d were des i gned exclusively for the LARGE UPHOLSTERY Establishment that has re cently suspended payment. Also, 500 HEARTH RUGS. March 5, 1832. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL could not deny the fact, having seen by the public prints that they had been so tar proceeded in. He, however, had not been con sul,ed—such summary prosecutions were left in the hands of the Commissioners of Stamps. Mr. C. PELHAM considered it imperative upon Go vernment, by every means, to prevent the circulation of that trash which, in penny publications, was disseminated to the great detriment of public morals. Mr. HUNT, seeing the Under Secretary of State in his place, begged to ask whether a person of the name of Russell, the gaoler of Huntingdon, bad been found guilty of murder, and if so, what was the cause of delay of the sentence of execution? Lord WHARNCLIFFE proposed the second reading. Lord ELLENEOROUGH and the Duke of WELLINGTON opposed it. The House then divided— Contents 9O Not Contents 6 Majority for the Bill —l4 Adjourned at Hall-past Seven o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 20. Mr. DUNDAS obtained leave to bring in a Bill to re gulate the System of Police in Edinburgh. On the motion of Mr. BYNG, the 13;11 for Equalizing :he Eeeleshstical Burthens in the Pariah of St. Mary, Is lugton, was read a third time, and passed. Mr. LAMB said, that same short delay had unavoidably taken place, in consequence of some communication which had passed between that place and the Government. Mr. BYNG presented a petition against the Birmingham Rail-road Bill, which was ordered to be reforred to the Committee. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the individual referred to had been found guilty of being accessary before the act, of the murder of a female pri soner. Doubts, however, had been entertained whether the indictment was correctly framed, and a barrister had come up to town to communicate this fact to the Lord Chan cellor and himself. It was in consequence of this that the delay had taken place. Mr. GRANVILLE RYDER presented a petition from the inhabitants of the town and neighbourhood of Hemel Hempstead in favour of the Labour in Factories Oidered to be referred to the Committee. On the motion of Mr. HARCOURT the Bill for en closing lands in the parish of Caversham, in the county of Oxford, was read a third time and passed. MINERAL SUCCEDANEUM FOR FILLING DE CAYED TEETH, without Heat or Pressure, and IN• CORRODIBLE ARTIFICIAL TEETH, without Wires or other Ligatures. MONSIEUR MALLAN and SONS, Sur - "' All- geon Denti s t s , N o . 32, GREAT RUSSELL ;MEET, BLOOMSBURY, and 9, HALF-MOON STREET, PICCADILLY, grateful for the high and extensive patronage which has so eminently distinguished their professional exertions since their arrival in the British Atetropolia, respectfully announce to their Friends and the public in general, that they still continue to restore DE CAYED TEETH, with their celebrated MINERAL R UCCEDANEUM, so universally recommended by the Faculty of London and Paris. The operation of Filling Teeth is performed in a few seconds, without th e slightest Pain, heat, or pressure. They also FASTEN LOOSE TEETH, in a manner singularly efficacious, and SUPPLY W HOLE or PARTIAL SETS of TEETH formed of the above INCORRODIBLE MINERAL, or of Natural Sub "'let, Without WIRE or other LlGATURES—guaren teed to answer every purpose for Articulating and Masti- Sating•--Charges as in Paris. The Faculty are respectfully invited to witness the suc csssful result of th e Mineral Soccedaneutn. DENIERARY AND ESSEQUEBO. We, the undersigned, Proprietors or Representatives of the several plantations set opposite our names respectively, and owners of Slaves in this colony, do hereby solemnly declare, each for himself, that we consider the Order in Council, dated the 2d of November, 1831, and published in the Royal Gazette of this Colony on the 12th thy of this present month of January, 1832, by his Excellency the Governor of British Guiana, purporting to alter anti modify the relations heretofore existing between the Slaves in this Colony and their lawful owners, and the jßights under which we have lawfully possessed and en_ oyed the services of our Slaves—to be wholly ruinous to the just interests of each of us the said persons, and to be a direct ♦iolation of the sacred rights of private property— rights which Were and are sacred by law, and ought to be inviolable. We declare that the necessary effects of the said Order will be to inflict an irreparabl e and extensive injury on all the agricultural and other interests of this Colony —will lead to the rapid decay of its sugar plantation s in particu lar, and will inevitably cause the speedy ruin of a large proportion of the present proprietors, which the under signed are prepared to prove. Wherefore, each of the undersigned, for himself, de clares to protest most solemnly against all authorities and parties whatever concerned in promulgating and enforcing the said order, fot all the injurious and destructive conse quences to arise to each and all of us from its promulgation and enforcement. We protest against it, as being a direct infringement of the fundamental laws of this colony, under which we ac quired and hold the property now invaded, and also as be ing in contravention of the express and solemn pledge of the inviolability of private property and rights, in carrying into effect the improvement the condition of the slaves— which was contained in the unanimous resolution of both Houses of Parliament relating to that subject. We pr otest against being considered as acquiescing in, or voluntarily submittin g to, its unjust, vexatious, and op whichexactions and restriction., by , under an overruling necessity, we may yield to Y obedience its Provisio; and we severally demand and claim full compensation and indemnity for the loss and injury in flicted o n our respettive properties by the present and all previous orders emanating from the same authority, ac cording to the value of the said properties previously to their deterioration by the repeated and pernicious orders of his Majesty's Government respecti ng th e suppose d this colony. amel res oration of th e condition of the slave p opu l at i on o f And es it is extremely inconvenient for all of us, the un dilligned, to app ear personally at the Colonial Secretary's Office, for the purpose of executing this present protest per llsonally at t h e said office, we do eac h o f us hereby spe ciay authorise and empower any two of the following in divitluals, viz. :—Edward Bishop, Charles Bean, George Rainy, James Johnstone, N. M. Alan et C. Revers, Joseph Bette, to appear before the Deputy Colonial Secre tarY, or any . of the Town Clerks in the Colonial Secretary's Office, officiating as N otaries, to ex ecute a protest of the tenor and t of allo and the effect hereinb e f ore contained, in name and behalf each of us the undersigned, and to causes the same to b e d uly intimated to his Excellency the Go ornor. [ Here follows a most respectable list of subscribers, J a n. 1882. j STATE OF IRELAND. Mr. SHAW after having presented a petition from Galway in favour of the Gitlway franchise, prevented one from the nobility, magistrates, clergy, and gentry of the county of Cork, relative to the present alarming state of Ireland. That petition was signed by the majority of the resident nobility and magistracy of the county, and he bad the authority of an Hon. Friend, Member for the county of Cork, to state that the petition was more numerously and re spectably signed than any which had been received final that county. It called the attention of the House to the evils which now threatened Ireland with an awful crisis, and to the efforts which were snaking to dissolve the Union with Ireland, and it lamenied the want of firmness in his M tjesty's Ministers in yielding to the demands of factious and discontented persons.—(Hear, hear.) The peti tioners stated that they had moreover the greatest desire to promote unanimity among all classes of his Majesty's sub jects, and they implored the House to take into con sideration the state of Ireland, and to destroy the revolu tionary measures now in progress in Ireland. That peti tion was intimately connected with the one which was presented the other day from Westmeath, and which was signed by the Lord-Lieutenant and all but one of the Magistrates of that county ; he trusted therefore that the earliest attention of the House would be called to the pre sent alarming state of Ireland, with a view to suppress the present revolutionary and alarming state of that country. Mr. H. GRATTAN was surprised to hear the Re corder of Dublin—a Judge of Ireland—accuse the people of that country of being disloyal. As a Judge he ought not to have so charged them, for it was not the case. If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would attend in his place on Thursday, he would find that such was not the fact; the Hon. Gentleman would have informed himself much better of the fact if he had attended regularly in his place, instead of being elsewhere. He (Mr. Grattan) place the o calumnies es t, pledged hi mse lf, t h at i t the Hon. Member attended in his Thursday,at had been hesouls give ld complete t l, answers to circulated a to as loyalty of the Irish people. It was wholly unbecoming in any person to throw such a charge against them. He had property in no less than ten counties in Ireland, and, having such an opportunity of knowing the state of Ire land, he declared that the charge of disloyalty was wholly and absolutely unfounded. Mr. LEFIIOY said it seemed that the Hon. Gent. (Mr. Grattan) had a very great objection to the applica tion of the term disloyal, as applied to the people of Ire land. He had risen merely to state that which was a matter of notoriety, and which was confirmed by a great number of magistrates, that there was such a state of insubordination and outrage against the law in many parts of that couutry, that no person's life or property was see. As to the state of the county of Westmeath, he would much rather take the authority of all the Magis trates of that county than that of a Member of the House. The state of Cork had b•en represented by the petition now before the House, and which was signed by a great number of most respectable persons. The result of the trials in the county of Kilkenny showed the state of that part of the country. It appeared that his Majesty's Government had been unable to proceed with the bills of indictment against certain prisoners ; the Attorney-General had been obliged to retire in conse quence of the system of intimidation which prevailed there. Whether such conduct was fit to be called disloyalty or insubordination, he would not stop to en quire, but the fact was, that it was found impossible fur the judge to proceed with the trials, and the prisoners were ordered to be detained in custody. No man considered himself safe, all confidence in the sup port of Government was lost, and every thing in that part of the country was now being given up to the domination of a lawless mob. Under such circumstances he trusted the attention of Government would be c.lled to the state of Ireland, and that they would adopt such measures as wimld enable parties to carry into execution the laws, and afford to thi se who were acting in obedience to the law, protection for their lives and property. Colonel ROCH FORD thought that Government was inclined to favour the species of disturbances which had been alluded to. Mr. SHAW stated that as the Hon. Member had brought the subject before the House, he was ready to adopt his words that many parts of Ireland were in a state of insubordination and disloyalty. He did The order of the day was then read for the resuming of the adjourned debate on the REFORM BILL. Mr. TREVOR rose, and said it was not with the slightest hope of being able to say any thing new on this subject, or that he should make a single obser vation deserving the attention of the House, that he now wished for a few moments to advert to this measure. He felt it due, however, to his own convictions, to his con stituents, and to those on his side of the House, not to give his silent vote on such an occision.—(Bear.) Those with whom he had acted had manifested an ability and patriotism which though overwhelmed by means of the numbers on the other side, would doubt less elicit from the reflecting and sober-minded part of the community, and from every well wisher to the good order of society, that praise and approbation to which they were justly entitled. Although the present measure differed at present in some measure from its predecessor, yet it contained equally objectionable provisions, and was equally dangerous in its tendency. It was not his design to discuss it in its ♦arious parts, nor to point out those numerous anomalies—its continual contradictions to those principles which its promoters professed, as entitling them to the approbation of their country—yet he could not but allude to the anomaly of giving a similar right of franchise to the great manufacturing towns—to the sections of the metropolis—the purlieus of Newcastle, and the frequenters of sea bathing districts; he could not pass over the spoliation of ancient corporate rights, which were sanc tioned by law and by justice, merely in conformity to the spirit of a❑ age which, reckless of every thing that was just or venerable in principle, and beneficial in operation, desired, at all li,zards, change of any description, provided it only differed from the existing state of things. Such was the condition to which this country had arrived ; but admitting for a moment that he had adopted this view of the subject from prejudice, or fanciful or imaginary alarm, he would venture to ask was it probable, was a rational hope to be entertained, that the measure now before the House was likely to be final, or rather was it not a stepping-stone to further encroachments? By this Bill, those who might be the future Members of this House would not be the representatives of the landed interests—not the representatives of the gentry of the county—not even the representatives of the respectable householders of the various parts sending members to Parliament, but little better than the delegates of a mob. (Hear, hear.) The picture was not overdrawn. Experience has shewn what the effect of popular agitation was : and recollecting what had passed, it was impossible to look forward without alarm to the delegation of such a power to that class of the community who could not be said to be likely to make good use of it. To whom was the House in debted for this crisis ? To whom was it owing that they were called upon, from day to day, to account for not getting on so fast with this measure as their So vereign Lords, the mob, approved of? Was the Bill approved of by the respectable portion of the country? Was it approved of by the landowners in general ? Cer tainly not. Many of the principal Reformers who admitted the propriety of some change actually recoiled with alarm at the prospect of what was before them. Did the petitions which had been pre sented from day to day and from place to place not plainly show what might be expected from a people goaded on by a licentious and revolutionary Press ? A Press which had dared not only to dictate to the Members of this House, but to the Members of the other House, what the duty was which they ought to pursue —not only dictated to them their duty, but even threatened those with the thunder of its vengeance who might not. opinion, e b er thats obey it s d espot i c laws. Had not that revolutionary Press— h, aot call it the f a i r organ o f p u blic becaus eofe, e r revolutionary Housea t it Press t h • m certainly t alivnelarie, determinedty was not—Lad bc kjeedso ofut popular those deti.station and j ust i nd i gnation? The House under such circumstances oug h t to hesitate in delegating so great a power to su c h a set of persons who never he ( object to this manner of Reform as oi ‘ notim fure possessed it, and who never ought to wield it. The House had been frequently told that the public meet ings throughout the country were sufficient proofs of the general feeling of the people on this measure. With regard to the late elections, he denied now, as be had always done, that this was to be considered a popular Bill. Was it possible that the public opinion was to be argued to be the law of the kingdom ? For such he contended to have been the law of the various public meetings which had been held. To attempt to say that any system of human intitution could be free from fault would be to assert what was incompatible with the frailties of human nature. but it was impossible to forget that this country had ar rived at a pitch of greatness unparalleled in her former history before ; and surely it required serious consideration ; for, on the mere visionary view of the mo ment, it would be inconsistent with the safety of the country to abandon that vessel which had weathered so many storms, for the purpose of embarking in another, which, to say the least of it, was of an untried and experimental description. He sincerely concurred with the Hon. Member for Aldborough, last night, in wishing that he could allow himself to believe that the consequences of this measure would be different from what he was persuaded they would be. He wished he could believe that his apprehensions arose from prejudice or party feeling. But the more he re flected on the measure, the more firmly was be convinced of the danger that would result from passing it into a law. He also entirely concurred with that part of the Hon. and Learned Member for Rye's speech, that regard being had to the immediate and certain danger of passing this Bill into law, as compared with the danger of rejecting it, infinitely the lesser evil would be, and there fore the proper remedy, to negative the passing of the Bill. He thought the history of past times sufficiently pointed out the danger of the course they were about to adopt. It they looked back to what had occurred in their own coun try, they would find that there was scarcely an instance iu which concessions to popular clamour had answered the en:. proposed by those who conceded what had been re quired. He much feared that those Members who looked to the present Bill as the great panacea of all the evils which were supposed to oppress the country, would have to confess their error, and find that the country was fast approaching to ruin. He conceived it to be the bounden duty of every individual who had hitherto voted in the mi nority, now that the Bill was in its last stage, honestly and manfully to declare their opinions. Although he had the honour of representing a body of men in a large and important county town, who looked with an eye of favour to this measure, he felt it his duty to oppose it ; for though he was favourable to the general principles of Re form, he conceived the present Bill to exceed all rational bounds. He, therefore, felt himself honestly bound to state his sentiments. The principles of the present day professed a continued warfare of beggary against pro perty, and the bold adventurer, against the straight forward and long established Statesman.—(Hear, hear.) When he reflected on this, be could not but feel an apprehension for the welfare of the country and for its institutions. God grant that his fears might be erroneous. The Government were legislating as if human nature had arrived at its perfection, and they were throwing down every barrier of safety with out reflecting how they were to check the result. Those who opposed the Bill would have to reflect that they had done the utmost of their power to warn their country of the precipice on which they were standing. He admitted that the time was arrived when some change was necessary, but under the specious pretence of Reform he would never sanction the course of revolution. Would (said the Hon. Member) the shades of our departod great men could break the slumbers of the tomb, would that they could rise again and be told all that was passing amongst us. Words would be wanting to express their astonishment. He (Mr. Burke) who bad exerted himself to warn a neigh bouring nation of the revolution into which they were about to plunge, lived to see his predictions too fatally realised. Could he now rise amongst us, his astonishment would exceed all bounds to find that we were treading in the same steps which had proved so fatal. If the re sult proved otherwise than be (Mr. Trevor) predicted, he should be the first to acknowledge his error ; but, on the most mature consideration, he looked at the pre sent measure as the ruin of the property and the religious establishments of the country ; and last, though not least, the ruin of the Monarchy itself. With these sentiments he could not but declare his opposition to the measure, and he would make that declaration though the consequences were that to-morrow morning he should lose the confidence of those whu returned bins to that House. He was con vinced that Ministers were producing as bloody and as fearful a Revolution as ever blotted the annals of any country. Mr. SCHONSWAR said, that in the present ex hausted state of the subject, he would endeavour to com press what he had to say within the least possible com pass on the present occasion ; he had more abun dant reason to do so than he had on any former one. But representing, as he did, a large and respectable class of persons, he should not he doing them justice without he took this—the last—occasion, to say a few words. As regarded the dangers which Hon. Gentleman opposite thought would attend the passing of this Bill, he was of opinion that the danger lay in refusing it, and not in granting it; that the danger lay in a rash vote between the great body of the people and the expression of their anxiety fur Reform. It had been said that the present measure was but the prelude to others. That was the fault of the Gentlemen on the other side, who, if they had brought forward measures of their own, would have enabled the country to judge which was the best But as he believed the overwhelming majority of the peo ple wished for the plan of Reform now before the House, and considered it a great and substan tial relief, the House had a right to assume that no other satisfactory plan bad been proposed for their acceptance. A great deal too much importance had been attached to antiquity. They had been called upon by every motive of veneration and piety to uphold the great fabric bequeathed to them by their forefathers. Now with every due respect for the memory of our forefathers, it was well known those personages had often repaired such parts of the Constitution as were found to be necessary. He confessed that the foundation of the Constitution was laid by them, but he asked the House to look at the pre sent dense population, the increase of ships and co lonies, and trade, the highly excitable people of the present day, in whom were concentrated the elements of good and evil to an eminent degree, and then say whether it was not for the House now to form a mode of legislation like the present, which, he was sure, was a good one, and which, he hope , !, would be a lasting one. He defied any man to look at the institutions of former time., and say they were fitting for the present genera tion. As contrasted with former times, a moral and in tellectual change bad been going on of late with a tenfold rapid pace. Let the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Trevor) look at the state of the inhabitants of the town he repre sented, as it was twenty years ago, and let him look at it now. Let him look and contrast the mode of life of its inhabitants, and their endowments at the two periods, and let him then say whether the institutions of our forefathers were fit for the present highly cultivated people. It ap peared to him that, the present Bill had been wisely and well framed upon a due consideration of the wants of the people. It was, perhaps, not perfect, and, indeed, what institution was so ? But it was calculated to last for many years. It opened wide the doors of the Con stitution to all who chose to enter therein, and it gave to a highly civilized people their political wants. The Bill had been scrutinized in all parts of the empire, and he was surprised now to hear Hon. Gentlemen say that it had not the support of the country. Let them look at the last elections by large constituencies, and that would spew them how eager the people were for the Bill. Indeed, very few representatives for large places had ventured to oppose it. That it would easily pass through that House, he could not doubt.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to its probable fate elsewhere, he looked forward with hope but not with despair. Whether it would be then rejected, or whether it would be crippled or mangled, which would he as bad as rejecting it, he could not tell, but if such a calamity should occur, they must look for danger ; he did not lo , k for any very dreadful consequences, because be had a great reliance on the good sense of the people; but there would be probably a loss of confidence between the governors and the governed. Ile would not trust himself with hazarding any opinion upon such a possible case. He had th e most implicit confidence in the firmness his Majesty' s Ministers, and he trusted that they would not desert the helm in the hour of danger, but that they would bring that great healing measure to a speedy, happy, and honourable termination. Sir J. BRIDGES was convinced Ministers would not charge gentlemen on that sir.e the House with having been the means of creating useless delay. Ti at there had been delay he admitted, but the reason was the complicated and contradictory nature of the Bill, which had Colonel TORRENS meant to confine himself to an swering. some objections stated to the principles of the Bill. The Right Hon. the ex Secretary to the Admiralty bad stated that property, not population, should be repre sented ; and he was surprised that a Gentleman of his acuteness should, when he embraced that principle, con tend against giving representatives to some of the most wealthy towns of the empire. On his own principle, he ouebt to have voted for giving even a greater number of Members to the metropolitan districts. The Right Hon. Gentleman complained of the anomalies of the Bill, but there was no greater anomaly in it thin the anomaly of the Right Hon. Gentleman contending for the principle of property, and arguing against giv.ng Members to the metropolis. He must also contend in opposition to the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, that the 101. householders of the metropolis deserve to have votes. He thought the labourers of the country ought to be repre sented, and he, therefore, approved of the 101. franchise being adopted in large towns; and he approved in parti cular of that part of the Bill which extended the franchise to the 10/. householders of the metropolis. The Hon. and Gallant Member then adverted to the argument, that the system worked well, and denied that it did, referring to the present state of the slavery of the peasantry, and the infant slavery of the manufacturing districts, and to the distress of all classes, to prove his assertion. He admitted that it was difficult to say what would now work better. An argument against the Bill was, that it would produce a democratic change. On that he joined issue with those who made the assertion. He denied that it would pro duce such a change ; for that change had already taken place. The Bill would not be the cause of such a change, it was the effect. The democratic change which was the object of the dread of the Gentlemen opposite, already ex isted. The Bill was the consequence of that. The pro gress of half a century had now made it as impossible to re sist Reform as to resist the independence of the Americans, as only the same sort of madness which led George the Third to resist tha Americans would now lead the Tories to resist Reform. One of the remarkable changes in society was the increase in the power and wealth of the middle classes ; and if the times would not open their eyes to anything else, they must nee that the power of the aris tocracy had declined, and that the elements of political power had passed into new hands. The growing power of the country could not be withstood. The Tories might yet enjoy influence, but it was only by placing themselves at the bead of the movement they could not resist, and that, lie hoped and trusted, would be tranquil and glorious enthusiasm of the Tory party. Mr. MACKINNON did not oppose the Bill from fac . tious or interested motives. He believed that he was sure of being returned to a reformed Parliamen as to a Parlia ment as at present formed. He did not object to Reform, and was convinced that some Reform ought to take place, but he objected to some specific provisions of the Reform Bill. Thejßill was founded on the two principles of wealth and population, and it took away Members from England and Wales. One hundred rod twenty-five years ago, at the period of the Union with Scouland, England and Wales bad 513 Members. Since then, the wealth of the country had increased ten fold—he meant personal pro perty—and the population at least three-fold. According to the principle of the Bill, therefore, the number of Mem bers ought to have been increased ; but the Bill dimi nished them. On that account he objected to the Bill. The next objection he had to the Bill applied to the com bination of the principles of property and population, by which the boroughs of schedule A were disfranchised, the boroughs of B were retained, and the boroughs inserted in schedule C and D. He objected to that, because in that combination the vote of a poor man in a rich district and the vote of a rich man in a pour district would be of very unequal value. That principle was not new, it was adopted in 1798 in France during the Revolution. He was con vinced that if the propositions respecting shedules A and B were carried into effect, the influence of the Peers and of the Church would be wholly destroyed. Hear.) He repeated, that the influence which the Executive and the Peerage now exercised in that House for their own pro tection, and in order to preserve the power of the three estates, would be wholly destroyed.—(Hear, hear.) If they looked to the history of this country from a very early period—but particularly since the accession of the House of Hanover—they would find that all the powers of the Crown and of the Peerage were brought into ex ercise through the means of the close boroughs ; and when these were removed—when the means through which the Peers and the Crown were able to main tain themselves against the power of the people in that House were taken away—what, be asked would be the consequence ; Let them suppose that by any not im probable accident the Representatives of that House, after the passing of the Reform Bill, took offence at the con duct of the Lords, why they would say instantly, " Of what use is the House of Lords ? It is composed of one or two hundred persons with tolerably large fortunes, but deeply mortgaged ; that branch of the Legislature is of no use—let us do away with it."—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Mackinnon) was not in the line of a Peerage, and, there fore, not personally interested in the question : but he put it to the Ncble Lord (Althorp), who was the heir to an Earldom and to a large fortune, whether that view of the question was not worthy of his consideration.—(Hear, hear.) He would t ike another view of the subject. Supposing that there happened to be a Prince of the Royal Family in this country who had rendered himself unpopular with the people, and who had become equally obnoxious to the Press, who assailed him with all the zeal and power for which it was distinguished ; supposing, too, that this Prince was the heir to the throne, and the 101. householders, thus worked on, said that they were deter mined that he should nut succeed to his birthright, and in sisted on their Representatives in that House refusing their concurrence in such a Prince's elevation, what, he asked, ) IA) ...e .„.,i • - *,_c --: - : I,s ( - 3 would lbe the consequence ? • Civ' wie liglik- • ~ it Tise, issue ; but, at all events, there • ~,,, o ',4lrmil .i a enity ' . .._,'P and gnat danger in such a posit •Mo (:-.- . :-.4 ~ , , , - ,-.at . Much bad been said of the dange n to . /Atitielytarff- If tf tv eesion, and they had been raferr , . • '-ecrldit,ioW:gifie's, France and to the Revolution whi • . :,., ":-.- k , -;.,,1Z that country. He maintained, how er a ; :-' a a ;'.- tion of the two countries was very differe nt. -lII' PI14: el there were no higher classes previous to the late Revolt,. tion. The Peers were so only in name; and it was well known that the great body of the middle anti lower classes of Paris were adverse to Charles the Tenth and his ordi nances. Now in England the case was very different. The middle classes, although not adverse, but rather favourable to Reform, were yet almost unanimous in their hostility to the particular provisions of that Billwhich had been introduced by the Government. If any one. doubted this, he would tell them to look at the declarations of the merchants and bankers of the metropolis and many of the great towns, and to the opinions expressed by the Members for Thetford and Boroughbridge (Baring and Attwood), and others their representatives. In France the Revolu tion was the work of public opinion. In England, be feared it must be allowed that the Reform Bill was the re sult of popular clamour.—(Hear.) He contended that the whole system of the Government must undergo a change, for it was impossible that any Minister whe cams in as the Representative of the 101. freeholders under the Reform Bill could retain his place if it depended on their opinions and caprice. General PALMER said that having failed in his en deavours to speak upon the question in the last Session, until just at the close, and in an almost empty House, he was anxious to address it once more upon the subject ; in somuch, that he still viewed it in a different light from all who had spoken in the debate, and above all, the Right Hen. Baronet, the leader of the Opposition, whose strong objections to the Bill he hoped to answer to the sa tisfaction of the House and the country. He must first observe, that the coalition of parties in the present Mi nistry had exposed them to the attacks of their opponents, who had not failed to take advantage of it ; for instance, the most severe and effective speech of the Right Hon. Baronet against them had been in answer to the Noble Lord his former colleague, who, in the debate in the last Session, had charged him with inconsisiency of conduct, when the Right Hon. Gentleman, with great warmth and eloquence, complained of the injustice of the attack by those who, having hitherto with himself opposed all Reform whatever, had suddenly been made converts to the revolutionary measure of the Whigs ; but however plat - bible the argument, what was the fact ? The Noble Lord and others, in becoming panic. to the Bill, had proved the sincerity of their conversion, and redeemed the errors of their former policy ; but where was the cinsistency of the Right Hon. Baronet, in cutting the throat of the Tory party upon the Catholic Question, and crying murder at his own act, in hie speeches against the Reform Bill—for whether it was the necessity of Ca tholic Emancipation, or of agreeing in opinion with the Duke of Wellington, the Noble Duke and himself, in car rying that measure, had opened the door to Reform, by thus breaking the tie betwixt the Tories and the People, which had so long excluded the Whigs from office, and prevented the adoption of the liberal system of which Ca tholic Emancipation was a vital part ; but still the Right Hon. Gentleman might have saved both his character and place and have justified the warm defence of his conduct by the Whigs against the reproaches of the Tories, had he only followed the course which his abandonment of their cause had called for, viz., in persuading the Duke to bring for ward the measure of Reform, or le iving him to the conse quence of his own declaration against it; when, consisten tly with his vote on the Catholic Question, he might have followed the example of his former colleagues in becoming a Member of the present Government, and continu ng to nke the lead in that House, for which his talents and practice had se well fitted him ; but instead of this, what was the fact ? The Noble Duke and the Right Hon. Baronet were sent for by the late King to form a nes; Ministry, and accordingly undertook the Government be twixt them, without the aid of either party or the people ; when, having been soundly beaten by the Whigs upon the great question of their policy—the repeal of the Test Act —instead of resigning office and leaving the field to their opponents, according to the practice in political warfare, they turned the tables on the Whigs by stepping into their shoes and carrying their own question of Catholic Relief against the Tories. And here, if toe Noble Duke, who had thus taken up the cause of the people, had only stood by it, the Whigs, who had proved their forgiveness of the march he had stolen on them, by their zeal on the Catho lic Question, would have enabled him to carry Reform in the same triumphant manner; but, for whatever reasons the Noble Duke and Right lion. Gentleman determined to retrace their steps, and win back the hearts, or at least stop the mouths of the Tories, by their sweeping declara tion against Reform ; when, having soon discovered their mistake, they as soon changed their minds again, and had now become half Reformers, in the hope of returning to office upon the back, of the party no longer able to carry them—for hitherto the Tories, being consistent in their conduct, had obtained credit for the honesty of their feel ings, and a real apprehension of that danger to the Pro testant Religion which the people had so long believed in ; but the Noble Duke and the Right Hon. Baronet, in car rying the Catholic Question w;thout abandoning their Tory principles, had thereby dropped the mask, and opened the eyes of the people to the fallacy of the system they had so long supported ; for having at last removed all the unjust and invidious distinctions between the Pro testant and Catholic people, what reason could they give for withholding the same justice between their respective Churches, either in restoring the Catholic Church to her former rank and property, or placing both upon the 811111t1 footing, by that Reform of the Established Church, which the necessity of the case and the voice of the people, of both religions, had so loudly called for ? lie now came to the main argument against the Bill, wherein, to speak the truth, he believed the majority of the House so far agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet, that they bad gone the whole length with Ministers, more from necessity than choice, and to prevent the greater danger, under all circumstances, from a less radical mea sure ; indeed, as much had been stated in ti,e last Session by Hon. Members, as old and sincere friends of the people as he hoped he had been himself; and he men. tinned the fact, because, if such were the feelings, could the people be surprised at the stronger fears of the body who were not the Representatives, but, according to the intention of the Constitution. the check and control upon them ; and whose conduct, however to be regretted, had been consistent with the system which the people had supported for more than fifty years, and would have sup ported still, had they not found out the necessity for that radical change which the majority of the said body, how ever unwisely, dangerously, and unconstitutionally, had still conscientiously opposed ? To return to the Right Hon. Baronet, who still maintained that the Bill would destroy the Constitution and establish a Republican Go vernment, he would now ask the Right Hon. Gentleman and his friends, in answer to their late speeches, if such had been the real object of the Political Unions and these Meetings of 150,000 men, whom they declar.d to be tie dictators and masters of the Government—was it to be believed they would have lost the golden opportunity which the Lords had given them, and have stool forward at that awful moment in defence of the Constitution against its only real danger from the enemies of the Bill? In melancholy proof, let them only look at Bristol, and ask themselves whether the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, the Recorder of the City, who, by his own statement, had been told that the Civil Power was unable to protect him, and therefore knew, or ought to have known the extreme danger of a visit which might have been dispensed with, had not been the sole cause of all the melancholy consequences; and looking to the example of Bristol, could they deny the fact, that whatever the danger of these Unions in themselves, they had, both in their ex . istence, and in the exercise of that power and influent's wherein their danger consisted,, protected the country at large from the dreadful effects which the rejection of the Bill, and the excitement of the people had in that instance produced ? As to the real object of the Unions, to meet that question fairly, he would take the speech of the Caair man of the Birmingham Union at their great meeting, upon which so much had been said elsewhere—that speech he had read throughout ; and whatever the question of Mr. Attwood's politics or judgment, he believed there had been no question of the sincerity of his praise of the Crown and Ministers, his attachment to the Constitution, and hi s honest belief that justice might be done the people with out endangering it. To obtain that right was the object of the Political Unions, and the main question of the pre sent Bill, which, as the Right Hon. Baronet and others had truly said, could not stop where it stood, but, on its own principle, must lead to that only red representation of the people by which every man who contributed to support the Government, either in his person, property, or labour, was entitled to a vote ; and by which there would he no honest means of preventing Universe] Suffrage, than to relieve labour from taxation. How this could be done he had yet to answer to the Right Hon. Baronet, and would now state, in as few words as the subject would permit, the grounds of his conviction that tite present glo rious measure, for which the people were so deeply indebted to the Crown and Ministers, woula enable them to relieve the labour of the country from taxation, without danger or injury to property or the Constitution. It was a melan choly truth in the history of the nation, that, in propor tion to the increase of its wealth, so had been the decrease