The Sun. — London, England, 1804-03-08 00:00:00

NUMBER 3580.] IiVIPER[AL PARLI,LVIE:VT. HOUSE OF PEERS. WEDNESDAY, MARCH 7. couNs. were finally heard relative to the Irish Appeal, Stewart v Young. Atter which their Lordships affirmed the Decree of the Irish Court. The Bills before the House were ibrwarded in their re spective Stages : —among which the Duke of Yo R K'S Estate liiil was read a third time and passed, and the Marine Muti ny Bill, and the Scotch Bankrupt Law Bill, were read a se cond time. Th On the Que 1- stion for the third reading of the Mutiny Bill, e Duke NORFOLK rose, and ma d e sonic observations relative t o certa i n Provisinos which had been introduced into the Bill, the died of which, and more especially their introductisn into a Bill such as that under considera tion, he highly disapproved. The Povons to whi he allud e d , went to authorize the colleeti r on isi of tolls upon the passag e of Army Waggons, &c. over certain bridges. Having stated his grounds of objection to such a regulation, in some detail, the Noble Duke observed, that the principle upon which it proceeded was a novel one, with a reference to Bills of a similar description of that before their Lordships. His interference was guided by,no other motive than a view. to. the public service. 'Mutiny Bills may be said to be rz...gular annual Bills since the esta6lislintent of a standing Army, and were necessarily so, as long as that eStablishment conti nued. He did not then move to expunge the provisions in but lie trusted what he had thrown out would have question, its weight with the trainers of such Bills in future, and in duce them to amend the ACI accordingly. was t lien disposed of, and thellouse Some private business adjourned till TII It E E o'clock to-morrow, HOUSE OF COMMONS. WEDNESDAY, MARCH 7. SIR WM. YOUNG reported fr,in the Committee appointed to try and determine the. merits of a Petition ccinplaining of an undue Election for I lehester, that ------ BR OOK S i , Esq. was duly elected; that Sir NVNI. MANNER 3 was not duly elee.ted ; that 1 o i-i N CIANN ERS, Esq. and ‘Vr.r. WEBB. Esq• 'were not duly elected ; ♦ that the Eledion as far as it related to Sir Wm. MANNERS, was void, and that the Petitions Were not frivolous and e:iatious. Sir Wm, 1' 0u NG further reported, that the Committee had determined, that Sir Wm_ NIA NNEa s had been by him self, or his Agents, guilty of Bribery at the last Eledion tor Ilchester, and was theretbre incapacitated from se..ving in Parliament during the present Parliament; and that•Wm• WEBB, E(1. had beep guilty, 4 his Agents, of Bribery. Sir E. You NG then moved, that a new Writ be issued for I Ichester, in the room of Sir Wm. NIANNERS, Bart.— Ordered. The House went into a Committee on the Irish Priests'. and Deacons' Bill. A Message was brought from the Lords b LORD CHIEF BA RON and a MAST ER in CIIA y the Nc, stating that their Lordships had agreed to the DoK e E OI k? YOR K ' S E state Bill. Lord TFAtrtE. in pursuance M of th e notice he had given, oved That there be laid before the House an account of all the sums of money assessed under the authority of the Pro perty Aa on Officers on Ilalf..pay, Staff; Cavalry, Artilleiy, Garrison battalions, Militia ", ite. from the sth of April last to the 5111 of (1,-tubcr inclusive. The CHNCELLOR cf . (be. EXCHEQUER said, as the Noble Lord had before stated that his intention was to pro pose a Measure for relieving the Subaltern Officers trom the . P roperty Ad, a propositio n to which he could not accede, he should 'oppose the Motion. Lcrd question to E T MPLE said it was division not his int ent i on to press the a The Motion was put and negatived. _ Lord TEMPLE then gave notice that he should on this (by fortnight move that the House should go into a Cotrunittee to consider Of tile Propery Act far '- it feared to t4.-'64.4' ahem Officers of the Army . ' as " i INSURRECTION IN DUBLIN. - Sir 301 IN LP RO his N ot i ce to TT SLEY rose i n p ursuance of call the attention of the House to a subjed which was by no means new to t h em : it dentall • was one which had been frequen t ly di scussed inci y, and whenever it had been so discussed, • there had always appealed to him to be a gre at a nd material difference of opinion, not only among the Members of that House, but even among the Mini . stets, upon the question, where the blame rested with regard to the transadions in Dublin on the 23d of July, fo r that blame existed some where had hardly ever been denied. It was not extraordinary if Ministers, with their superior means of informa tion, should have been unable to come to any de cided opinion upon the subjed, that other Members of that House should feel •a considerable degre e of doubt upon it ; he was therefore sure that he should stand justified to the House in bringing for Ward a motion, the nbjed of which w . as obtain in. formation which was nearly conneCted with the charaEler of the Irish Government, and which very materially affeded the dea r e st i nterest of the that led t h e H onourable irish People. H e was not aw are of t h e motives Admiral (13tR.icF.LEY) to decline making the Motion of which h had notice ; wh atever the motives of the e f or give n ourable' Admiral w ere , h e was sure they were hoirourable ones, but he felt himself called upon to bring for. ward this subjea upon a large scale, so that it might -Qundergo a full and complete investigation. When uestions relating to Ireland were formerly brought forward in that House, the Answer constantiy given was, that theSubjed was not within the cognizance of that House, because Ireland had a Parliament of her ow n to watch over her Interests.- Since the Union had taken answer could not be place, h owever, that given. I n order that that great and important measure should take place, the Members of the Irish Parliament h a d ma d e very great sacrifices, and he hoped tha e dutt of the U n i te d Parliament would shew t them that they had not made these sacrifice s in vain. He hoped that no Member of the British Parliament had given his vote for the Union, and fur depriving Ireland of her local Parliament, without considering well the duties which he took upon himself, to watch over the interests and happiness of Ireland with as much care and diligence as on those of any other Part of the United Kingdom. While the Parlia ment of Ireland sat, its - attention, not being dis traded b y considerations of Foreign poli t i cs , was diretted solely to the internal improvement and happiness of Ireland; but now that the Parliament of the two Countries were merged into one, and that the attention of Parliament must be directed not only to local considerations, bur to the general concerns of the Empire, he hoped they would prove by their condud, that I ; toe.r motive in voting for the Union was not to deprive the Irish Parliament of its power, but to promote the happiness and T • kk,v, U NO hut' he had been informed that Alderman Alexander had slept out of Dublin that night. Mr. Marsden, who held a very cw.fidential situation, had during that day a considerable correspondence with dif ferent Public Officeis, and the correspondence was of a very curious nature. A letter was written by ' the Lord Lieutenant to the Commander in Chief, which contained this remarkable postscript, which had been already published. It stated that he (the Lord Lieutenant) supposed, that as the guard was • augmented, that the Commander in Chief had re. ceived further intelligence. This he considered as a clear proof that the communication which had been made to the Commander in Chief, was such !, as did not warrant his adopting any further pre cautions, because otherwise the Lord Lieutenant would not have expressed any surprize at the guard being increased. All the communications that were made were involved in doubt and obscurity. Even two hours before the Rebellion aelually broke out, the Secretary declared in one of his official com munications, that a number of reports had been re ceived, and that he hardly knew whether to credit or to rejeit them. An attempt had certainly been made to throw the blame on the Military, with what justice the House would be able to judge if this inquiry was instituted. But the House would recollect, that at the very time this transaition took place, Ireland was represented as being in a state .of profound tranquillity. The Habeas Corpus Suspension Ail, and the Martial Law Ail, were not in force, and the Police of the Country of course depended upon the Civil Power. That the Military ought not under such circumstances to be resorted to in the first instance, was a proposition which he supposed would not be denied : if after notice had been given to them they were prepared to ail, if circumstances rendered it necessary, it was all that could be required or expeiled, and consequent ly they were not responsible in the first instance. So far however from the Civil Power being in a state of preparation, it would appear that when the Mili tary were called out, there was but one Magistrate that ailed with them, and he would not give orders to fire, because he was then out of his distrkt, and therefore the Military Officer was prevented from ailing as he would 'have dune for want of assistance from the Civil Magistrate, anti the consequence was that he was obliged to fail back upon the Barracks in James-street. If therefore all was done that was agreed upon at the interview between the Com_ manderin Chief and the Lord Lieutenant at three o'clock, the Military were free from blame, and that they did that and even more, appeared from the letter of the Lord Lieutenant to the Commander in Chief—lt might he supposed ,that he wished to exonerate the Commander in Chief; that was by no means his objell ; his only wish was, that if any blame attached upon that occasion, either to the Civil or to the Military Power, that that blame might be brought home to those who deserved it. If the House should consent to the inquiry, he would pledge himself to lay before them such a scene of weakness and indecision, as could hardly be con. ceived. He would prove, that but • a very short time before the Insurreilion broke out, `the Secre tary was writing Letters, doubtful and equivocal almost beyond precedent. One of them stated, that " Our accounts are ! growing more serious, Men are matching on the Line of the Canal, our ap pearances look more uncomfortable." This was the kind of information which the Irish Govern ment had of an Insurreition, which ! threatened no less than the subversion of the Irish Govern ment, and the separation of that Country from England.--11' this! inquiry was granted, he would then call for-Letters written by the Lord Lieu. tenant with a degree of apathy and unconcern that nothing' but the produitiOn of the Letters themselves could induce the House to believe ; and he was tho roughly convinced that if he was allowed to.call for the,documerits which he should think necessary, the •House would feel the greatest indignation at the lit ' tle anxiety that was expressed for the public safety. But nothing could shew the- slight opinion which Government entertained of that important Rebellion, more strongly than the nature of the precautions they took. At three o'clock - the Lord Lieutenant thought himself sufficiently guarded, on his return to the•Phcenix Park, by a Serjeant and tz men,,and he was surprized when the Commander in Chief aug ' mented that guard with 3o men; but before 1 . 1 o'clock at night,orders were sent to reinforce the guard with so Dragoons and - too Infantry. This, certainly, did not prove much, hut it shewed the different degrees of apprehension entertained at different times of that day, by the Irish Government ; and it shewed that their apprehension was just fifteen times greater at eleven o'clock at night, than it was at three o'clock in the afternoon. In examining the policy upon which the Irish Gavernment tided on that occasion, the only thing in which they ap peared consistent was, in their wish not to give alarm : hut it might not be improper to consider the wisdom of such a determination. It had always been admitted, that to prevent crimes, was much better than to punish them ; and surely there never was an occasion on which it was more necessary to ail upon that principle, because it would have saved all loyal men from the risque which they ran upon that occasion; and certainly it was highly criminal un necessarily to endanger the lives of the King's Sub jeits. It had been urged that the return of Lord Kg warden to town that day, and the consequent murder of that most excellent Nobleman were merely acciden tal, arid that the whole was but a contemptible riot. But when the objeit of that insurrection was to se parate Ireland from Great Britain, and that at such a moment as the present, when the exertion of every part of the Empire was necessary to repel an im placable and perfidious Enemy, and when that in surreitiau was partly carried on in concert. with the 137 ?-4; t.' — :,•Zi,04. 6 ',,, k ..--: . -4 .1, / ,`, l V 0, 4- % - V... f i, -',.-:. ; tAI 046 '•-.T, ito",-%.7A;Mt.r.4- \ c„) - rz" 7 %:•.:7 - e- lit; ' - • '.- ~, i.z....--;-,i F• - ~..t 4 .4 . ~, . t.., Ni, ~ • .:),/,.;: p ..-'71,...:14„:„,... 6 , - Jr 1 ). - \;. , •:, , t, ~.." ~...'e - LC) , _,I f, 4••• ,:5 . A . ,,,' 7 , 4, t t • 1 ',' -•"' , NV ...) !--,t Z ['PRICE STXPFNCE. Enemy, such an insurreetion at each a moment could hardly be called a contemptible riot. Couki that he called'a contemp:ible riot which induced Parliament to place such extensive powers in the hands of the Irish Government,' and after four months deliberp._ lion, again to renew these powers ? Could that l-c called a contemptible riot which compelled the Go_ vernment of Ireland to put the Yeomanry of Ire land on permanent duty for three months ? NO, When it was necessary to adopt these measures, then Government were obliged to state transatqinn in its true light. But he hOped the would not differ about terms ; he hoped the investigation would take place, and then the House would know what terms to apply. to it. Having thanked the House for its indulgence, he would now conclude , with moving ", That the House should resolve it self into - a Committee to inquire into the conduft of the • Irish Government relative to the Insurredion of the 23d July, and the previous condua of that GovertAment as far as it related to that Instirrec. 'jail." Lora' C ASTL E AGilsaid, that the Hon. Bart. had founded his Motion upon the suoooSed criminal negied or 'incapacity of the Irish Government : the Hon. Bart. had begun his observations with one which did not possess that accuracy, which. he had no doubt the Hon. Bart. intended ; he had assumed in the beginning of his Speech, that it had been eon. eluded that.blame attached to some part of the Irish Government either Civil or Military, and that there fore this Motion was necessary to ascertain to which the blame alualiy belonged. If any such conces sion had been made, he considered that event as be.. ing by far too important to justify him in opposing the Inquiry. But no such concession was ever made by His Majesty's Ministers from the first moment the affair was ever mentioned ; the language of Mi nisters was uniformly this, that in their judgment no blame whatever attached to the persons in Government in Ireland, whether Civil or Military, The fads conneaed with that transaction, were now sufficiently notorious to enable Parliament to judge, whether or not an inquiry was necessary. He would now shortly examine the grounds upon which he considered this inquiry as necessary or expedi. ent ; and if he should be able to satisfy the House, that there was no ground to attribute blame to any charaaer, Civil or Military, he should he hoped, satisfy them, that there was no .ground for this in quiry. He was perfealy aware, that those who were closely conneaed with the persons who formed a part of the Government of Ireland, either Civil or Military, might be nut feelingsxious ftw.a w n h i i n c q h u p ir a j r , l . : These were undoubtedly natural fe e li ngs for private persons, but they were ment could indulge, or upon which they ought to act, for there certainly could not be a more impro per .eriterion for Parliament to jud g pof the r _ priety of granting an inquiry. These feelings al ways existed the most strongly, where there was the greatest confidence of innocence, but surely that could be no reason why Parliament should waste its valuable time merely to satisfy the feelings of in. dividuals, where there was no blame attached what ever. His first objection, therefore, to this inquiry was, that it was unnecessary, as there was no im putation of blame against any of the persons conned. ed with the Irish Government. But there was ano ther material objeaion in point of time to this in.. quiry, because the object of it was to attack Lord HARDWICKE, and it surely was not consistent with justice to institute an Inquiry concerning his conduct; - while his whole time was taken up in ad.. .ministering the affairs of Ireland. And thisobjec. tion did not. only apply to the-Lord Lieutenant, but to :he ()dist persons concerned in the Government of Ireland, whether civil or military : beeause, if .the Inquiry was insti7uted, the Officers who held Chief Commands in Ireland, must necessarily be examined ; all the persons concerned in the Civil Department must also be examined, and in the mean time the opinion of .the people, with.regard to the Government, would be- suspended, the valuable time. of Parliament would be taken up, the principal Civil and Military Officers. must be brought from Ireland to be examined, and all this upon an occasion where no blame could be attached to any person whatsoever. ,He did not mean to say that these were arguments, that ought to preclude an inquiry, if any satisfactory grounds had been laid for one, but when nosatisfilaory case had been made out, undoubtedly the inconvenience that must attend it, would have great weight with the House. He would meet the lion. Baronet upon his own grounds, and he had no doubt hut that he should convince the House that this inquiry ought not to be gone into. He had stated that the Lord Lieu ► - tenant and the Irish Government were ignorant 'of the affairs of that Country, that they were supine in the discharge of their duty, that they had not proper information, and that they could not distin guish between that which was true and that which was false. Besides these general charges, the Hon. Baronet had advanced some specific charges : he had contended that they did not truly appreciate the degree of danger with which they were threatened on the 23d July, and that they did not take adequate means to meet it. With respea to the general Charges he begged to say a few words, and first, he begged to deprecate that mode of stating the ques tion which the Hon. Bart. had adopted. It had been inferred from the general language which Ministers had used with regard to the tranquil state of Ire. land, that they conceived that all danger had teas. ed, and that there was no occasion for any precau tion.' He contended that every par t of their conduct she wed that they did adopt every necessary precau. tion ; and even the transadions of the 23d of July, when they came to be fully examined in a Court of Justice, proved the justice of his assertion. It war true that Ministers, speaking of the People of Ire- TRH' URSDA Y, MARCH 8, 1804. prosperity of that Country, to conciliate the minds of the people, and to make them not objeds of jealousy to the Government, but to make the people as they wet e in Great Britain, the great strength of the Coun try. But since the Union other objections had been made to motions of this kind ; one was, tlat no mo tion of Inquiry ought to be made, unless it was to be followed up by some pradicable measute ; that ob jection, however, could not apply to his present motion, because he meant to move, "That the House should resolve itself into a Committee to consider of the Conduct of the Irish Government on the occa sion of the Insurredion of the z3d July."—This motion appeared to him calculated to produce the most pradical and beneficial effeCts. If the re sult of the Inquiry should be, that the Irish Govern ment had upon that important occasion displayed ac tivity and vigilance ; it they had taken the proper means to obtain information ; if they had shewn ability to discriminate in the information they re ceiv ed, between that which was true and that which was false ; if it should appear that the Lord Lieu. tenant was firm at his post in the hour of danger ; if he had issued the necessary orders for repressing the Insurrection and securing the peace of the Capital ; it all these fads should be proved by the Inquiry for which he moved, would any man say it would not have the most beneficial effect ? Would it not com. pletel v remove the doubts which were entertained by th e Public of the capacity and vigilance of the Irish Government ? 'Would it not be the means of increasing the confidence of the People in that Government ? The Irish were a brave, .generous, and grateful . People ; they now looked up to that House to re dress their grievances, and to protea their interests : he trusted that the House would shew them by their conduct, that they meant to perform the duty, and that the People of Ireland should not have to assert that their interests were negleded. If, on the other hand, it should appear that the Irish Government had not attended to the information it had received; if it should appear that they were ignorant of the real state of the Country ; if it should appear that they were frequently warned of their danger, and made no preparations .to meet it ; if such should, appear to have been the conduct of the Irish Government, could it be said that no beneficial effeds would re sult from, having these fads ascertained, in order . that an Address might be presented to the Throne, •in order to remove a Government so incompetent, • or so negligent ? In bringing forward this motion, he was actuated by no motives of personality against any individual whatever; his only wish was, that a subject of such immense importance as this most undoubtedly was, should undergo a full and impar tial investigation ; and that the blame should be attributed to those who really deserved it: Hav ing made these preliminary observations, he would now veraLshortly state .01;1 circumstances that pre-,. ceded and attended the Insurredion which happened in Dublin on the z3d of July, IEO3. It appeared that as early as the month of December, Mr. Emmer returned from the Continent to Ireland and ► t h en joined in a Conspiracy which had been already f or med ; this appeared by the Proclamation of the Rebels, which was found in their Dept, and • w hi c h was to have been published, if the In- surreetion had succeeded. From that time no. ► thing material transpired till the Month of March, • w h en His Majesty's - Message was delivered to Parliament, telative to the then approaching Hos. tilities with France. In that month the Con- - spirators formed, in the very Metropolis of Ireland, several depots of Arms and Ammunition ; Pikes, Blunderbusses, Pistols, Military Cloaching,- Ste. were collected ; and these proceedings were conti nued to be carried on without any interruption on the part of Government, till the explosion of•a Powder Mill belonging to the Rebels on the /6th July. Upon that occasion, the Police Officers dis covered Pikes and other Military preparations, and what steps Government took in consequence of that discovery, it would remain for them to explain.— But so alarmed was Mr. Etnmet upon that occa sion; that he immediately changed • his residence, and redoubled his efforts to accelerate his prepa rations till the z3d July, on the evening of which day he sallied forth from his depot to attack the Castle. Men from all parts of the Country were observed in the course of that day to come into Dublin, and in point - of fad a great number of them were armed before they were perceived by the I Peace Officers. He world not detain the House by reciting all the barbarous conduct of the Rebels during the course of that dreadful night. He should therefore now proceed to examine what preparation . the Government had made to meet this threatened attack. That the Irish Government on that occa sion did not make any preparations whatever he did not mean to assert, but he would as shortly as possible state what preparations they had made. That the Irish Government were apprised of the approaching danger by persons of great respedabi lity from different quarters, could not he denied, and it was equally true that this information was in general received in a very ungracious manner. At three o'clock on the Saturday the insurrection broke out, the Commander in Chief was appriied of the intended rising, and the Lord Lieutenant went from the a C t si w le as to sa itdh,eL g i vingodge al i a n rm th . e W P i h Ze ix . Park, to avoid, s Bard to the precautions that were adopted, he believed that some measures were taken relative to the Bank, and to the Ordnance Stores. A Meeting of the princi pal Officers of the Garrison was to have been assemb. led, but that was not to be till after dark; nor were the different Guards to be reinforced till that time. It that It had no n e r saidm - s t o a was w i e s v e e n r t a t g o re t h e e d L o ( n ) r Ni l a i e o s r ,. en i t g l i t g at 2v in ia te g l i l s ige tra t t ic e: e l A tad be e n lderinangAivleenxatondtehre. Su H pe e ri d n i t d e n n d o t mean to take upon himself to assert positively,