The Sun. — London, England, 1822-06-06 00:00:00

-to the detriment of our countrymen resident in' foreign. states. Ile row having thus stated the evil, the nature and extent of the remedy, with the principal objections that he anticipated, pledged hlinself on his responsibility to a just exercise of the powers in question. He believed it to be a measure of lenity and moderation.—( Hear, hear !) He certainly did not under value the opposition it might encounter, but he had rather sub -inn to any Inconvenience or unpopularity than carry about with him during the recess, a heart-sickening consciousness, that from the dread of these he had been deterred from bring ing forward a measure which he believed essential to our na zionel interests and security.—(Hear, hear !)—He concluded by moving for leave so bring in a Bill for continuing the Alien Act. Sir J. MACINTOSH said, the subject filled his mind with alarm and apprehension.—(Loud cheers.)—Those sensations 'were powerfully excited by the consideration of the nature of the Bill, compared with the circumstances of the country under which it was proposed—by the nature of the measure, viewed in conjunction with the necessity which had been pleaded for it. It was to him a matter of the utmost surprise and astonishment, that on such grounds such a measure as this could have been proposed, he would not say to a House of Commons, but to any assembly of Englishmen, to any body of men accustomed to the principles of a free government.--(Loud cheers.)—The alarm and apprehension with which he viewed this measure, was greatly increased by hearing it proposed on such grounds, by a Minister whose transcendent talents he greatly admired, and whose character he highly respected, on his first entrance into his present high office, under circumstances which he might have rendered so auspicious. He would assert, that on the principles which he had urged as the ground of his applica tion, carrying them to the fair extent, he might propose the abrogation 'of any one of the securities and safeguards of our constitutional liberties. The power of this Act en abled the Government to send out of the country, to banish from the home of. his choice, from the seat of his business, it .might be from the sphere of all his fortunes, any foreigner living amongst us. And those powers were asked for on no ground whatever, 'but because there, had been no example of their abuse, or, what was still more.extravagant, on the assurance of a Secretary of State to the nritish House of Commons, that they might trust to his responsibility for a security against any abuse in their exercise. —(Cheers)—and to the operation of such powers they were called upon on no weightier grounds than he had stated to subject 25,000 men who were living under British law !—( Hear, hear !)—The same grounds might with equal force have been urged in defence of the power of raising Money by arbitrary imposts in the time of Charles I. ; and he was tempted to apply to it the words of one of the greatest patriots of that period, " That he should hold himself justifiable in withstanding such an exercise of arbitrary power, even to the shedding of blood."—(Cheers.)—The average number of aliens permanently residing in this country, he took to be about 20,000. Up to the year 1793, it would not be denied that the Ministers of this country had no More power, to remove an alien merchant living in the City of London from the sp!eere of his business than they had to remove an English merchant.—(Heir!) The foreigner was then entitled to his habeas Corpus as well as the British subject. What would have been said of any Minister of the Crown who should have desired Parliament in those days to pass a Bill of Pains and Penalties (for such this was in ef fect) on any single alien merchant, on his mere assertion of danger to the State from his longer continuance in the country ? Yethere was a proposal to pass a Bill of Pains and Penalties against 20,000 British subjects, he would call them, for while teey were here they were living under the protection of British laws on the mere assertion by a Minister of possible danger to the State, and his promise that neither himself nor those under him would abuse the power of such a Bill. The Right Hon. Gentleman spoke of the permission and sufferance of aliens to reside in this country unmolested, and of the powers of the Act never having been exercised, in a tone which implied that it was no difference to them whether they lived here in the free exer cise of a right secured to them by the law of the country, or under the sufferance and will of a Minister. What was that, he would ask, but the doctrine of pure and unmixed despotism ? (Loud cheers.)—ft was in-direct opposition to the principles of our Constitution, and to the declaration of the illustrious Hooker, that " to live by one man's will, had always been found the cause of many men's misery. —(Loud and repeated -cheering.)—The Right Honourable Gentleman said, we could not allow of the repeas of such powers as long as foreignersmight -come hither, and make this capital the seat of conspiracies against foreign Governments. He could well believe that the foreign Governments that had been forced upon the people were naturally the object of their detestation but he could not imagine a more inconvenient place than London for the pur- Fee of ,conspiring to overthrow a foreign government. How, ler instance, could it answer the purpose of any body of dis contented Neapolitans, in plotting and arranging the over throw of the paternal administration of the Austrian Govern ment, either at Turin, Milan, or Naples ? And yet it was on the mere supposition of such a danger that they were called upon to pass this odious law. The same pretext might have teen set up in the firsteyear of the reign of Charles 11. for the enactment of a Bill to give the same power to the Government , -over 50,000 refugees, who had been freely admitted into this country in the preceding reigns. But what would have been thought of Lord Preston, the Minister of that day, if he had ' made such an application ? His reasoning on the subject might have been rendered fully as specious as that of the Right Honourable Gentleman, for it was much more likely that those refugees should plot against Louis XIV., by whom they had been unjustly banished. The period of Eli zabeth's reign was an awkward one for references in sup port , of this measure. He remembered an argument in support of the Alien 'Bill having been founded in the House of Lords, in 1816, on a supposed quotation from that reign with respect to the exercise of the Royal prerogative in the banishment of Scotchmen from England. That argument wan revived in that (the Commons) House in support of the Alien Bill of 1818 ; and it was afterwards discovered that the precedent quoted was founded on a particular statute of Henry cll. He was inclined to give as little credit to the precedent drawn from the same reign by the Right Hon. Gentleman, of the Order in Council to the Magistracy of the City of London • to " expel such foreigners as should be found therein belong ing to no congregation." But, admitting its authenticity, the last part of the order showed that it was aimed at foreign Ca thches, with whose countries it was highly probable this nation wet then at war. The argument which the Right Hon. Gen elcrean had founded upon the meaning of the words "nisi putCce prohibiti," he would leave him to settle with Sir Ed ward Coke, whose authority in Westminster-hall would not, 'he apprehended, be diminished by the Right Honourable Gentleman's opinion of it. Sir. E. Coke had clearly and dis tinctly stated, that the meaning of those words was, "unless pro hibited by act of Parliament."—(Hear.)--But the Right lion. Gentleman had contended, that the clauses of Magna Charts extended to merchants only; but let the House look to the state of society at the period whetv Magna Charts was signed. There were at that time no travellers but merchants. They were almost the only persons who visited foreign countries, and the olause which alluded to them went to the greater part of the foreigners who visited this country. At that period there were, he apprehended, few gentlemen who thought it necessary to cernplete their education by making the grand tour; few who were disposed to visit the Court of King John in England for fie purposes of greater polish and refinement—( Hear, hear !) and theugh, no doubt ; there were in those days very many Learned Doctors, whoJectured on subjects of science in the hails of Oxford, yet he believed their learned labours were not much attended to by the youth of Rome, of Florence, or of Mi -1 en,—( Hear, hear !)—He could not but infer that as merchants were at that time almost the only foreigners who resorted to our chores, the allusion to them must have included aliens gene rally. But the Right Hon. Gent. had talked of the treatment of merchants. It was true that by thelaw of nations one country might retaliate the treatment which, its subjects had met from another state ; but it 'was 'said we did -not retaliate 'after the peere of Amiens the treatment which the subjects of England had experienced in France. lie should be ashamed of his country if it had so disgraced itself. He was too proud of his country, to think that it could for a moment have descended to such violent expedients ; and he was surprised that the Right Honourable Gentleman should' have considered England en titled to praise for such an act of forbearance. For his own part, he should consider himself a traitor to the honour of his country, if he took praise to her for an act of common huma nity—Wear.) Mr. . TWISS contended, that every nation had a right to restrict foreigners from entering into it ; or, if it permitted them to enter, of imposing on them any conditions which it might choose. If they disliked the conditions, they would be at liberty to remove ; but they could blame themselves alone for the con sequences if, in defiance of those restrictions, they came into this country. As to the words of Magna Charts, they shewedl at least that all persons were to be prevented remaining in the kingdom after an Act of Parliament Shad been enacted to prohibit them from so doing.—(Cries of Hear, hear.)—Where, be would ask, ought such a power to be lodged except in the Grown ? Where was the power lodged of recalling a British sub , ject from abroad.? Where was the power of naming-the place to which a criminal sentenced to transpoitation beyond the sect lodged ? In the Crown. Why, then, he would ask shodld the power of sending foreigners out of the country be lodged in other hands ? If the Parliament should keep this power in their own hands, we should have one party calling out for indulgence, one for immediate exercise of the power, and another party calling . for, documents to justify the exercise of the p . ower, and, in'the interim, all the mischief which this Bill was intended to guard against would be perpetrated. The House had at one time heard from the, Gentlemen opposite of the displea sure which these Alien Bills excited abroad, and at another time, from the same Gentlemen, of the discontent created In consequence of this country giving refuge to indivi - luals who bad been disagreeable abroad. But these asses thins cannot be well founded ; but even admitting them to be so, was this country to assume every thing against Fo reign - States, and every thing in favour of those Aliens who had left their own country? It became this 'country to take every precaution to guard itself against the factious and discontented, who reeollected with regret the ,destruction of a military State founded upon the ruins of civil liberty. Such men were anxious to put every thing to hazard, and for such men the great- desideratum was a spot where they could act without Banger or detection. After looking round the world, where could such men find a spot so desirable as England, where there was no Minister of Police, no examiner of private papers, no persons to interrupt their private correspondence—a country in which they could procure all articles necessary for carry ing on their operations in a shorter time than in any other country, and, what was of more consequence to needy adven turers, at a longer creditaaa country where the unbounded license of the press afforded them the greatest facilities of pro mulgating their opinions to Europe. lie would say, that the Government of such a country, where, in consequence of ltd freedom, such conveniences were offered, ought to be extremely cautious that this convenience were not afforded for the annoy ance of its neighbours. He did not mean to say that the friend ship of foreign States should be preserved by giving up every person whom they might think obnoxious to them, but he thought that this country would give just ground of quarrel by not supporting the national honour. That Mr. Fox con sidered such a measure necessary to support the national honour, was apparent from his conduct in 1793. They were told that that measure was a war measure; so it was; but the present was a peace measure, necessary for the safety of the State and the continuance of peace. To prove that this measure was a peace measure when compared with the mea sure of 1793, he woald'ask the Hon. Gentleman to look to it, and see if any of those apparent severities with which that mea sure abounded were to be found in this? Would any man go the length of saying that we ought now to abandon these mea sures after a war of twenty years, during which time a spirit of discontent was created, and which was most likely to be brought into action in time of peace, which brought idleness in collision with 'poverty? Were we, because the surface of the ocean was cabin /fever to expect a storm ? Was this country to expect that it would remain at peace, when the neighbouring countries should have become embroiled ? It was said that this country was not likely to be overturned by the machinations of a few foreigners. He trusted, - and he believed that it could not hap-. pen ; but he thought every precaution ought to be taken, espe cially as history had shewn, how, without being overturned, a country might be subdivided, and at last destroyed, by means at first slight and almost imperceptible. Sir R. WILSON said, that though the Right Hon. Gent. opposite (Mr. Peel), in tnhoducing this measure to the notice of the House, had declared his willingness to take upon him self all the responsibility of it, he could never consider the measure as the measure of any other person than the Noble Lord (Londonderry.) The Right Hon. Gent. in proposing the continuance of this measure, had likewise told them that they were now in the 7th year of peace. Instead of hearing that cir cumstance urged as an argument for continuing the Alien Bill, he should have expected to have heard it produced as a•reason why we should discontinue it, and should enter once more into a state of amity with all the nations of Europe. The very pro posal to continue this Bill after so long an interval of peace, proved the baneful influence exercised over our Government by those great continental Powers which •had confederated to gether to impede the progress of kno - Wledge, and to retard the march of constitutional freedom. Indeed, nobody could justly deny that there was not instamped upon this Bill the signet of the Autocrats of Europe. The Right Hon. Gentleman oppo site had indeed stated that this•was.noyhe case, and had said that the right of removing foreigners from this Country had al ways been exercised as part of the prerogative. If this were so, what occasion was there to apply to Parliament fora Bill of this nature ? and why call upon it to grant to the Executive Government powers, which, according to this statement, it pos sessed already ? He should ever contend that the Noble Lord opposite, by obtaining the use of such powers, had disgraced the country—that is, had disgraced it by connecting its police with that of foreign nations, not only for information, but also for staunch and active co-operation. Such a co-operation, ht maintained, had been distinctly Foiled in the case of some Ita lian offieers,which he recounted to the House, but which was not, however, distinctly heard in the gallery. The Right Hon. Gent, had also said in defence of his Bill; that since the year 1820 only two persons had been sent out of the country under it; but it would not alter the injustice of the' Bill, even if no per son had been banished by it. Arbitrary power, the Right Hon. Gentleman must know, was never abused until it was firmly established ; there was confidence to be gained—there was vigilance to be lulled asleep ; and when that was done, it acted with redoubled energy, as if to make up for the time which it had previously lost. He did not meat , to say that the Right Hon. Secretary had any intention of mating an im proper use of the power which he now requested the House to grant him ; by no means: he only meant to say the Right Hon. Secretary had a wish to eny such power, perhaps, for the very purpose of showing that 'he would not abuse it. They all knew the school-boy maxim— , " Qui nolunt occidere quemquam " Posse volunt. ; The gallant General, after some further observations Upon thi - subject, proceeded to express his satisfaction that the cause of freedom seemed to be gaining ground throughout the world, notwithstanding the efforts which the British Government had , made to impede it. They had passed the Foreign Enlistment , Bill ; and, notwithstanding it, the independence of South Ame rica was atchieved. They were going to pass the Alien Bill again, and he would predict that, in spite of it Italy would, once more he free from its Gothlike invaders. The Noble Lord had boasted in the speech he had put into the mouth of his Sove reign, that the legitimate savage still prevailed over Greece ; but, notwithstanding that boast, he would tell him, that Greece would yet be victorious over all her oppressors. As the endea vours of the Noble Lord to impede the march of liberty had been so unsuccessful, he would advise him to desist from them in future, and, by repealing the Alien and also the Foreign Enlistment Bill, to give every assistance to men struggling in behalf of their rights and liberties. Mr. SCARLETT said, he feared it was hopeless to expect that any argument would induce the House to look at the pre sent question upon constitutional principles, even though the death of Napoleon had removed the last solitary argument which had been offered for the continuance of this measure. He had no fear of the influence of Foreigners in England. There were no people so national as the English, or so little likely to be influenced by Foreigners, and especially by such as• were likely to be the objects of ? the Bill. But he feared some engagement had been entered into for the , purpose of putting the police of this country on a footing with thoSe of other countries. Ho denied that the King by his prerogative possessed the power given by this Bill. As , early as the reign of Henry the Fifth, a law had been passed by Parliament to give him this power; and this he thought a fair argument against that of the Prerogative. It appeared, however, that the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman amounted to this—" Give me the power, and I will use it well ;" but this was too general, too suspicious, and too frequent a promise to be relied upon in a case of so much importance. The public, he was sorry to observe, took but little interest in the pre . sent question.—(Hear, hear, hear, and a smile from Mr. Set-- , jeant Onslow.)—He was sorry thus to hear and see his Hon. and Learned Friend opposite. Notwithstanding vulgar, prejudice, he had hoped to see that of the few men in that House who took disinterested views of constitutional questions, the Mem bers of his profession would be =ang them.—(Hear.)—The tone and gesture of his Hon. and Learned Friend partook of a triumphant scoff. His Honourable and Learned Friend was mistaken if lie calculated much on the public indifference to wards this %abject. The public had taken but little interest in the Bill for suspending the Habeas Corpus Act. Indeed, he confessed that he should feel some consolation if the public did take an interest in the question ; but he still trusted that his Honourable and Learned Friend would give the House an opportunity of examining the reasons upon which he, it. seemed, was about to support the motion. Perhaps too his Honourable and Learned Friend would at the same time say, whether he was or was not proud of that part of the law of England which gave freedom to every man the, moment he put his foot upon its Shores.—(Cheers.)—He would probably in form the House whether he approved of the decision in the case of Somerset, the negro.a-(Cheers from the Opposition.)— He begged to apologize to the House. He had been betrayed somewhat into length by the apparent invitation, the counte nance and feeling of his Hon. and Learned Friend. He chal lenged him as a constitutional lawyer to prove the necessity of this measure ; 'but he should expect the proof to consist in ar gument, and not in the expression of his countenance; for if he thought that was sufficient, he made the law dependent upon his mere (Gill and pleasure.—(Cheers from the Oppo sition.) Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW said, as he was called upon so pointedly by his Learned Friend, he must give his opinion. He certainly did express - his approbation of the sentiment ut tered by his Right Honourable Friend, that the puhlic did not take any interest in this subject; but he he did not do so from a sense of any triumph against liberty, but , he. cause lie.considered the sense of the country a decided proof against the assertion that this Bill was dangerous to gene. ral liberty ,or .td the interests of Europe. He did cheer this assertion, and he was satisfied that his Honourable 'Friend (Mr. Scarlett) was the only man that did not think the indifference of the people a strong testimonial in favour of this Bill. As to the assertion that the Crown had not, by Common Law, any such prerogative as that alluded to, lie would - say that, whether or not the Crown had such prerogative, the ne cessity of the case demanded she passing of this Bill. He wished to guard himself against offering any opinion upon that point;, but he would state that although the Crown had the power of indicting those who disobeyed the Proclamations, yet it had no summary power. He never heard that a Minister, who called for a measure upon his own responsibility, acted un constitutionally, and he had frequently heard Hon. Gentle men, at the other side of the House, when certain measures were submitted to the consideration of the House_, say, " we want no secret Committees, let a Minister of the Crown come forward and ask for the measure on his own responsibility."— (Hear, hear!)--Nothing but an attack carried to the full limits of Parliamentary decorum would have induced him to rise. Mr. DENMAN said he felt the humiliation to which the English House of Commons was reduced by the opening speech of the Right Honotirable Secretary, and he confessed that the statement of the Honourable and Learned Serjeant had not reconciled him to that speech. The Hon. and Learned Serjeant had not answered the case of his lion, and Learned Friend ; for he had not shewn, or attempted to shew, the neces sity of the present measure.—(Hear, hear! from the Opposi tion.)—This was a Bill which suspended, or rather destroyed, the English Law. The Right Hon. Gentleman had spokeifas if he were the only person who was to exercise the power in question • but, although the Alien Office was particularly within the Home Department, all the Secretaries of State had the same enormous power without any corresponding respon sibility. It was not enough *r the Right Hon. Secretary to give his opinion of the necessity of this measure. He should have stated facts to satisfy the House of the necessity of pass ing a measure which encouraged secret spies, and led to secret sentences. He did not know that the power was not abused even in the cases mentioned by the Right lion. Secretary. The Right Hon. Secretary wished to., have the confidence of the House in his opinion on the question of necessity. That Right Hon. Gentleman must be aware that there had been no dispo sition on his (Mr. D.'s) side of the House to quarrel with his general claims of confidence since the commencement of his political life. They, admired his character, they respected his talents, and were not inclined to examine too severely the cir cumstances under which, or the time at which, he liad joined an Administration which he had formerly so ably exposed.— (Rear, hear ! from the Opposition.)—He (Mr. D.) for one felt great respect for him ; and, to prove his respect, he heartily wished that : the ; name of the Right Hon. Gentleman had not been connected with such a measure as the present. He (Mr. D.) should not examine at length the merely probable evils which might attend this measure. They were such as were to be expected from secret complainti made before-secret tribunals; but with regard to the allusion to Magna Charts, he could not forbear saying, that, for the first time in the House of Commons, he had heard that statute spoken of in language el most of ridicule.—(Hear, from the Opposition.)—He, for one, approved of the law ; and would beg the House to contrast Magna Charts with the present Bill. The latter gave power to a Secretary of State to deliver a foreigner into the custody of a messenger in order to his removal. The former declared that " all merchants should have - safe and secure conduct to go out and come into England. to tarry therein, and go through the - same by water or by land, and to buy and sell, according to the old and rightful customs, except in time of war."— (Cheers from the Opposition.)—Even on the breaking out of a war, the foreigners were only required to find hostages. The Right Hon. Gentleman had referred to the time of Queen Elizabeth ; but the Stuarts and the Tudors had abused their power. It was not in their defence, but in that of the oeople of England, that he had risen on this question. Ile differed from his lion. and Learned Friend (Mr. Scarlett) as to his despairing of resisting this measure. Ile hoped the English House of Commons would not in this, the eighth year of peace, consent to the re-enactment of this most dangerous law. He, trusted it would meet the most vigorous opposition at every stage. The people had shewn an apathy on this subject, but the people of many countries often suffered despotism to grow until they felt its strength. With respect to the language of the Right Honourable Secretary, in allusion to those who had taken a part in the late Revolutions, it was painful to hear themcalled conspirators.—(Hear, hear ! from the Oppo sition.)—.What ! were they conspirators who planned the Spanish Constitution ? Was that of Portugal a. conspiracy ? —(Cheers.)—Were the exertions of the heroes of Spanish America to be called a conspiracy ? Would to God he could name Naples as being another in the list of such conspiracies. But the Right Hon. Secretary had said, that on the coming of-those Gentlemen to this country their crime had been buried in oblivion. Their crime was the having fought for the liberty of their country.—(Cheers.)—And then the Right Hon. Secre tary took credit to himself for having, as it were, passed an act of amnesty in their favour. In fact, he had pardoned them.— (Cheers.)--He had pardoned those . glorious martyrs who had endeavoured to establish a constitution upon a kingly basis.— (Loud and continued cheering from the Opposition.)—He trusted the House would never consent to the passing' of this most odious measure. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he had come down to the House fully prepared to meet the shock of argument with which they had been threatened, and especially as they were under the terror of a penalty to be inflicted upon them by the Hon. Member for 'Westminster (Mr. Hobhouse), who had threatened to move perpetual adjournments if Ministers did not answer the arguments which were to be urged against the measure. Undoubtedly when Hon. Gentlemen condescended to offer argument, they would be met by it.—(Cheers from the Opposition.)—An Hon. and Learned Gentleman had appeared to look with alarm at the beginning of the political life of his Right Hon. Friend. He (the Marquis) therefore concluded, that he might congratulate the House upon the prospect of the • long continuance of that life in the service of the country, and in the advancement of those principles which were calculated to exalt the liberties of the country.—(Cheers from the Opposi tion.)—By liberty he did notmean that unnatural liberty which consisted in licentiouSness, and which delighted only in revo lution, bloodshed, rapine, and conspiracy. England would not deserve to have, true liberty if it suffered its soil to be made the nuisance of Europe. if he might examine the counte nances of Honourable Members opposite,. and surely he might, after what had taken place that night with respect to his Honourable and learned Friend behind him, he should say that the countenance of the Honourable Member for South wark (Sir Robert Wilson) appeared to beam with delight at the bare thought of that glorious confusion which went to the subversion of established. Governments.—(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches.)—He (the Marquii) disclaimed the idea of inhospitality to foreigners. He would treat them as he would treat the petitions of the people.—(Cheers and a laugh from the Opposition.)—When, in the first case, hospitality was abused, and petition was made a mere vehicle for conveying expressions of contempt towards the House, he would have the persons who committed the one and offered the other met with every firmness and treated as they deserved.— The strongest case had been made out to justify the present Bill; but the other side appeared to hold every thing in reve rence which overturned rule and divided the elements of So ciety. He assured the House that the Bill was not connected with any understanding with any foreign power. On the contrary, it had been distinctly agreed that the, presect Bill was not even to be enforced on any occasion at the request of any power whatever.—(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches)— Indeed, he would call upon the House to vote against the mea sure if they believed in the existence of any such understand ing. The House, he was sure, would not allow itself to be misled by mere general declamation about liberty, or by the argument that this measure might . possibly be abused. The possibility of abuse was never denied ; but the House would consider the present inconvenience against this possibility, and decide accordingly. If in the future gage of this Bill, any thing like argument were offered against it, although it was irksome to travel so often over the same ground, he could as sure the Hon. Gentlemen they should have argument for argu.: ment, and speech, for speech.--(A laugh.)—But at present he confined himself to giving a distinct denial to the statement that this Bill was brought forward upon an understanding with foreign powers.—(Hear, hear !) • Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, it was very natural for the Noble Marquis to deprecate the mention of liberty. No doubt it reminded him of his own conduct in early life; and that before he entered that House, he had destroyed the liberties of his own country.—(Cheers from the Opposition.)—When the Noble Lord held out threats to the people in consequence of ' their Petitions, he was pursuing the course he took in the Par liament of Ireland. The Bill could not be justifipd by a plea of necessity. They had nothing but the assertions of Minis ters, upon which he never could rely. The Noble Lord had said they lived amidst the ruins of Empires. The Honourable Baronet could not understand the meaning of that phrase, un less it applied to the events in Spain, Portugal, and. America. Could it be said Spain did not enjoy a better Constitution than ' they had before the revolution ? When Ferdinand Vll2tram pled on the rights of the Spanish nation, ,they were also told of the spirit of revolution and the wreck of empires ; and even at the present time, when civil liberty was extending so much to the benefit of society, they heard the same language. Lord LONDONDERRY explained. ,In using the term of the ruin of empires, he did not mean to apply them to the States alluded to by the Right Hon. Baronet. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, he could not conceive to what States they could apply unless to Spain and Portugal. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he only meant those countries which had changed their constitutions by mili tary force. Lord STANLEY said, he never could sit by and hear the Noble Lord assert that this country was a nuisance in the eyes of Europe. England had been always looked upon as the land of liberty, and the very slave who touched it became free, and he could not avoid expressing his reptobation of the ex pressions of the Noble Lord. As to the immediate question, before the House, he had always felt the strongest objection to the measure, and in that opinion he should now persevere.— (Hear, hear!) The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he had been mis understood by the Noble Lord: he never said that England was a nuisance; but if it gave a countenance to conspirators, then it would become a nuisance. Lord STANLEY said, if the Noble Lord had satisfied his own (hind, he must only say that he had not satisfied his. Lord A. HAMILTON expressed a hope, that if the Bill should pass, it should .only be for a year, but even for that, space of time he should have the strongest objections to it. It was his opinicn that England was very likely to become a nui sance as soon as it became a site forthe persecution of foreign ers.—(Hear, hear!) Mr. PEEL rose to reply. , He said he did not wish to de tain the House, but he could not consent to waive the privi lege of reply after the personal appeal which had been made to him, and the gross misrepresentation (unintentional, no doubt) of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Denman) — (Hear, hear ! )—That Hon. Gentleman had stated that the Gentlemen on his side of the House had always treated him (Mr. Peel) with candour and forbearance, but lie was surprised at the explanation he had given of that forbearance. For when he stated that it was not merely that they abstained from cen suring the particular measures in which he had been engaged, but had declined commenting on his conduct in joining the pre sent Administration, lie must tell that Hon. and Learned Gent. that all he deprecated from him was his charity.—(Cheers.)—He would tell him that he defied his scrutiny, that he did not fear his accusation, but what he did fear was the insinuation that he could produce an accusation, but which in his great candour and forbearance he withheld.--(Hear. hear !)—He was greatly mistaken if he supposed that he'sat there with " Bated breath and whispering humbleness," for that accusation which tie held in his pocket, and which he could, but would not produce. He would tell that Honour able Gentleman that his (Mr. Peel's) acceptbnce of office was as pure and as honourable as his. And he challenged him to produce any reasonable ground, or even a shadow of proof, for a charge. He had joined the present Government when he first came into public life, at an earlier period than he wished, and when he now Joined them again, if he must speak out, he could tell him that lie had not accepted office by his own solicitation.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—As to exposing the measures of Government, the only occa sion (except on the great question upon which. he .differed with some of them) on which he expressed an opinion unfa vourable to their conduct, was when the rote of censure was proposed on the Ministry for the proceedings against the Queen. He then stated that he could not concur in the mo tion, I , ut he disapproved of erasing the name of the Queen from the Liturgy.—(Hear,. hear r)—He felt it necessary to give these explanations in Justification 'of his own conduct.— (Hear!) _ _ _ _ Mr. DENMAN explained.—He said, as far as regarded the personal charge on the Right Hon. Gentleman, he wished to stare that he did not' Mean to misrepresent him, nor did he yet understand how he had done it, for he could not forget the exposure which he had made of the measures of those men amongst whom hehow sat; for on the occasion when a vote of censure was proposed on the Ministers for that proceeding, to which he would not then apply any epithet, he distinctly stated that he disapproved of the erasure of her Majesty's name from the Liturgy, and the absence of all due respect in not acquaint. ing her witn the death of his late Majesty. He did therefore think that in this exposure he found a proof of his assertion, that although he would not concur in the-vote of censure, yet the Right lion. Gentleman expressed his disapprobation of the conduct of the,Ministry. The House then divided. The numbers were— , For the Motion Against it - • Majority for bringing in the Bill Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at HALF-PAST TWELVE O'CLOCK. 189 92 - -97 CITY, WEDNESDAY EVENING. In the debates and conversations which take place in the House of Commons on the deeply to be lamented subject of Agricultural Distress, many of its Members, no doubt them selves feeling the misfortunes of the situation into which Eng land, once happy, is now reduced, assert that the present flourishing state of commerce has been produced by protecting duties or prohibitions, and therefore recommend the same cure for Agricultural Distress.—Unfortunately for those concerned in trade, the flattering description of their prosperity given by the Ministers of the Crown is founded either on ig norance or deceit. There is no department of trade at pre sent prosperous, and there are many classes of commer cial men daily sinking deeper into misery and decay. The shipping interest, which has fostered the Naval glory of Eng land, has been depriVed of half its property, and the other half is hourly becoming less valuable. This class of his Majesty's subjects cannot complain of want of protection by heavy duties and prohibitions, unless the future operations of Mr. WALLACE'S Bill, passed last night, convince them, that so far from restrictions on foreign competition being favourable to them, they have, in fact, been partly the cause of their present depression. Free the English ship-owner of British port charges, and Custom House, Excise, Lights, and Consu lages extortions, he will soon be convinced that free intercourse betwixt nation and nation is most important to his interest. The superior quality of his ships, and the industry, energy, and persevering gallantry of his seamen, will gain his property a decided advantage in trading with foreign nations. Re strictions have certainly not made the ship-owner prosperous, and a trial of free trade cannot make his circumstances worse. Lloyd's Coffee House, once the centre of British liberality, also gives a fatal negative to Lord LONDONDERRY'S asser tion, of the great happiness and success at present attending trade. The Subscribers, in the days of their prosperity, were the leaders in every work of charity and of patriotism. A few days ago, however, at a General Meeting, a subscription of 5001. from the public fund for the relief of starving Irishmen, was ne gatived by a considerable majority, and a book opened at the bar contains only 81. of private donations. Does this arise from hatred to the Irish ? Forbid the libel every honest heart. It arises alone from a firm conviction that their duty to their fa milies does not, under the depressed state of premiums, allow them to be beneficent. At the Corn Exhange this day, if it was possible to add to depression, it has taken place. - Wheat is unsaleable, though offered 2s. lower, and, on the whole, it is impossible- to paint things worse than the reality. In the Sugar-market no sales can be effected, and a decline of 1 to 2s. )per cwt. does not induce consumers to come forward. The refining trade is almost at a stand. Coffee is also again rower. Not a puncheon of rum can be transferred, and hun dreds of labourers have lately been dismissed from the West India Docks for want of employment. Lord LONDONDE RRY, ' however, asserts that trade is prosperous !—The depression on the Baltic walk does not yield in extent to any other depart ment of British commerce. The trade will not purchase St. Petersburgh yellow tallow even at 355. as they wait the event of a public sale of 600 casks next Friday. This article can not, at present, be imported from Russia under 40s. PTR flax is nominally quoted. at 525., and St. Petersburgh 12 head at 445. Clean hemp on the- spot is 405., and for time 38s. In short, there is not one department of commerce in a healthy state. Prices obtained for British manufactures in India and South America are fair, but the returns are miserable. The same causes have produced distress, both to the Manufacturing and Agricultural Interests, and no change can take place for the better until these causes be removed. The productive classes of society must receive remuneration for their labour. The 800,000 starving Irishmen must be properly employed. Living wages must be given to the peasantry in the agricultural districts and free trade must pay the labour of the mechanic. When the inha bitants of the United Kingdom are beneficially employed, the farmer:will not want a remunerating price for his produce ; and, until this state of society be established, misery must con tinue to increase, for no protection against fbreign importation of the necessaries of life can be of any service to Agriculture. The present Ministers are incapable of the mental exertion ne cessary to support a falling Empire. They . are possessed nei ther of the talents necessary for _great oocasions, nor of nerve 'sufficient to carry any important measure. They want the virtue to resign their places, when they are baffled in the _House of Commons. To be in a minority on subjects which they con ceive necessary for the glory and welfare of their country—even to be left in a minority on the motion for a better administra tion of the public laws, after pushing forward his MAJESTY'S ATTORNEY-GENERAL to defend them, is not considered by them, whatever may be the opinion of the people, any dis grace. From such Councillors what benefit can be expected?— No Foreign Mails have arrived this day, and there are no foreign news. Letters of high authority from Vienna mention, that a loan for four millions has been contracted for, and no doubt the Royal Exchange in London will hear of it as soon as the last Russian Loan is properly distributed. This day it is very dull at 811. The Chili Loan is steady at 761, g, 1,4, g, and closed at The French Rentes are 89.25. a 89.50. Prus sian Bonds, 861, Columbian Old Bonds, 1001 ; New Sixes, 81, and the Scrip, 811. Confidence revives in Spanish Securi ties. The Old Fives are noted at 601, 61, and the New at 604, 611, 60k. Danish, 851, and Neapolitan, 721. In the English Funds, very little business has been done. Consols for the July account opened at 801, and closed at the same price.—(Morn ing Chronicle.) It is a striking proof of the growing impo r t ance of Liverpool, and of its extensive interest, that a few days ago there were no legs than five depu tations in London, at the same time, from public or associated bodies in Liverpool. There will be a conjunction of Venus. and Saturn early next Tuesday morning, when they will so nearly approximate as to appear to the eye not more than about twelve minutes of a degree apart. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. PARIS, JUNE 3.—A letter from Port-an-Princ e has been received at Bordeaux, stating that th e embargo was taken off in that port on the gt h April. The Journal du hart Rhin (Colmar) publishes an order of the day, dated Head-quarters, Stray 4 burgh, May 25, and signed by Lieutenant-zon e ' ral the Baron Pamphile de Lacroix, C O , ll/ ; mandant of the sth Di v i s i on , announc i ng that Lieutenants Nole, Valterre, Perignet and Gair t lardon, have be en st ruc k out o f the Aim,' List for having become members of secret assoc iations.: 'Pile first three h ave o bt a i ne d perm i ss i on to q uit France. Notwithstanding the laws for the repression ni a the Press, Tercerola, Yurriago, Tribuno, an several other Pamphlets, preach with vellemen ce , the dethronement o f th e -Ki ng, an d the di sm issai of the Ministers, whom they charge with bei n g conspirators against the Constitution. These Journals have also reproduced all the atrocious calumnies against the Bourbons which were the numbers of the Genseur published during t ue hundred days.—(Quotidienne.) Yesterday the wishes of virtuous and religiou s people, of faithful Frenchmen, were fulfilled and the future shewn to then to be full of bor . A man dear to youth, dear to families, and re ; spected by all parti e s, h as b een summone d to t`„" high dignity of the P a t ron o f Y out h , upon whnri, rest all the hop e s o f th e country. The 10'h', Frayssinous, an au th or , o f w h om t h e cap i ta l has seen for upwards of 15 years the elite of the schols r t of his schools pr e ss aroun d hi m w i t h the war mest affection, had mo re th an a t i t l e to the emlueirit t distinction which h as b een grante d to hi m . is not ambition w hi c h h as b orne him to this hig h station, the public knows it, and his modesty rs the chief title which towers above all th ° , e , s e which he has acq u i re d b y hi s l ong labours, the wisdom of his ch arac t er , an d t h e gran d eur o f h i 4. talents. Thus, it may be said, that the int ell ;; gence of his app o i n t men t h as b een rece iv e d Paris as a public event, the consequences ° which may for a l ong ti me b e felt, not only in r t I the precincts of co lle ges , b ut i n t h e b osom Of f a' milies, and of society itself. No name can n n . o have more authority to restrain youth, and tra p , them to good morals and good studies. His 1$ to guage, already so d ear t o a ll t h ose w h o l o ok be him as the si m pl e d e f en d er o f morals, an d s l i guardian of truth, w ill assume to t h em a o more imposing chara c t er , an d the influ e nce of wisdom extending throughout the kingdom, w „ 1ll /, by degrees calm that boiling spirit of innovat i s' f which characterizes the age. Such are the llnfl i f results which maybe expected for the monarc, i 'd from the appointment of M. de Frayssinous, ais we may be permitted to say, all our though being directed to this event, so impatiently e, so pected, that we c ongra t u l a t e t h e Mi n i s ters 7 h their having aboli s h e d th e regulation Wilitco pressed so _heavily up on th e U n i vers ity, a le given to the new G ran d M as t er t h e reqtli sl powers to do good.—(Quotidienne.) 0 Odes A traveller who h a s ar r iv e d di rect from or at Frankfort, and wh o t raverse d Bessarabia se Russian Moldavia, assures us that the iulle * Russian army w hi c h was encampe d there, balika advanced, and rear-guards pushing its a dvanc e ot posts upon the Pr u th, & c . & c . con sists—of n more than 40,000 men.—(Journal des Debuts.) The Petersburgh G aze tt es o f th e 10th of l‘f s f. 0 ( do not speak o f th e d eparture o f the Emperor ro Russia, nor even o f an y prepara ti on f or t hat pi n t pose. We hav e h ear d f rom goo d aut h or ity u s e r his Majesty's j o u rne y i s put off to the 77th May.—(lbid.) ts Gar SEMLIN, MAY 16.—1 t i s announce d f ro m that letters had a rr iv e d f rom C onstan ti n ople et , the 6th May, st a ti ng th a t th e gran d G ree k FI ; consisting bf 240 vess e l s , h a d appeare d be ore , r i g pulsed and that the T ur ki s h Ad m i ra l h a d been wan pulsed to Gallip o li. Thi s i nte lli gence ic n confirmation. ' • A UGSBURGH, MAy 28. 110 Letters from -- 11 t, rest, of the Bth and 9th inst., confirm the der n ts ture of the Asiatic troops, but th e inbabi t tri t he were afraid of b e li ev i ng i n th e rea lity ° I A , evacuation until it should b e e n ti re ly effecte"ula The uncertainty in this r espect, however, Iv not last long: Th e Asi a ti cs , w h o h ave loft tool charest, have marked th e i r r ou t e b y murderto t; pillage; they have converted the country it' desert. ~4 ~~ , . ~~ FOR THE SUN. Ma. ED/TOR,—As it is notorious that 11 : 15 country is the envy of all o th ers , f or its legir,sl:: tive system, which secu res liberty to the r'' ° F i :with stability to the th rone , it wou ld seem "tr'be ° possible that any public w r it er cou ld hav e t - be hardihood to publish such a gross lib e l two oo Laws and Government of th e C oun t r y, 35 thi s peared in the chief Radical Journal of day, viz.:— to " The first duty of a Government is to afford security those placed under it by suitable and well administere d lafi v In this respect, however, our Government has unfortuolio not only neglected its most essential duty, but frustrated c} , . possible way those who wished to supply the deS ciel ;• • Our law is a disgrace to the age we live in, barbarous, co plicated, and uncertain, stranger to every thing like gu i " : . l- ct, principle, every separate case having given birth to a di st ' e ., rule or enactment. Our Criminal Code is capricious, s ang o f nary, and calculated to effect every thing but the repressitinw, crimes. Other nations have been improving their Legi'l ltiti ar and the Sovereigns of almost every . State have been Jan e , ing to secure to their people the benefit of a distinct Ct o suited to their wants. But strange to tell, England, w 11 , 1 : cl : produced the greatest and most luminous writer on 5 1 10 5 e ject, of any age or country (we mean Jeremy Bentharu7.,`v Introduction to Morals and Legislation' in the x ° he re Translation of Dumont, has pro Cured for him O' 6 Y w eer to abroad the very highest reputation), is yet almost a strang e Legislative improvement." Ut" It is needless to comment on such all ° rageous violation of justice, truth, aria co n lor decency, as the offensive slander spealc s ize p• itself too obviously. As to old JEttEstY, m ni " e r THAM, it is fit that such a visionary Rel°r-ave and speculative Politician, whose theories boa always been 'ridiculously i m p ra cticable, s b ? 0 , receive the panegyric of the Journal in que_c t l June 5, 1822.. ',+,