The Sun. — London, England, 1801-06-09 00:00:00

15 • . - . ~~ t ~. it t, s., '" r_ d~ , r ,; 1 iw‘p K 0 d upon the principle of the scientific Instruftion of the Officers who . composed it, without which neither discipline nor valour would prdve of es.: senti4 service. It was the result of all modern experience that War was reduced to a science, anal must be cultivated as such ; nor could much advantage be derived from Military -Manceuvres if we were deficient in skill to defend ourselves against the envy and maliciouS' intentions of the Enemy, who watched in order 'to attack and if possible to destroy us at every possible opportunity. All those nations who had •negleeted the study of military sciencefhad sunk into a state of abje& dep en d ance on others more skilful, whilst in pro portion as a nation had cultivated' military-arts, ji had been found expedient to form establislitnents of this nature with a view to preserve and, extend .tbe knowledge of military science. Neither discipline for ecommy could be introduced in an army 'where military knowledge and science were wanting.' It might be asked whether therowas any thing in the heal situation of Great Britain or Ireland tp render' such an institution useful or necessary ? acknow: kdged that. an ,inSidar. situation rendered• - us less, -exposed to attacks, add to which that the high state of discipline as Well as undaunted valour of, our • -IN L I lYy, had s et us more at ,ease from the apprehension f Invasion ; but as the same'time he was persuaded that no prudent man would suppose, that the Fleet alone could Undertake, at all times,. and under all circumstances, effeelually 'to prote& the widely-ex- Nlett. casts of Great Britain and Ireland from in -4'14 at Al points. An, Army of some kind was absolutely necessary forborne defence ; and it ought to be in such a state, ,and to be so instrUded, as to enabl e it to encounter any invading Enemy. Here the SECRETARY at WAR proceeded to pass i b igheueorniums on the illustrious Prince, the gal clt Commander in Chief in this country, who might i said to have new-created the Army within a few: years ; and whose zeal, diligence, .and patrio tie NieWS COW be exceeded by none. ,I- le was at °nee t he Protneor of the deserving Officer, and the Soldier' s Friend; Zeal, alacrity, and enter. f° riz e were Aire chara&eristies of British Officers ;: Y' lt Ys and a most ,determined courage, distin- Pishcd both Officers and Men, which had octet suffered a stain, and he 'trusted never would. — All that Was wanting,- to British Officers, was a more frecitient opportunity of obtaining a • entifie knowledge of their profession. It was true, there had b e e n men of great and uncommon ge nnisin this profession, a Marlborough, a Cadogon , a Wolfe, a Stuart, and ,an AbercrOrnby ; but it was to an Institution: of the nature nos.v proposed that tile Country must look for an able supply of such j ., Officers. The syitem of modern British education did not afford sufficient opportunity to young men in - tended f or t h e 'S c i enc e of Arms to attain a know,. ledge of the rudimentS. ; of their profesion. In the Navy, a young man entered early into a cou,re of anstrudifans, and must pass, through a rigid exami nation by competent judges,. before ,he could receive a - Licut.enoot's Commission ; but: in the Army the 'wa s different. A young man 'entered into the Army a t 16 or S years of age, whilst the Public • rt 4 3ols had afforded him little more than a know. ` l 4fe of grainnear and the dead languages. In. t 'e opinion of many Offieers, an Institution.. of trfir nature was the o i ly thing wanting to s the • tritish Army. With this adirantage, ' 'young "Miters would emulate • their brethren on the e . •it, and be equally entitled to the gratitude and confidence of their Country. Such an Institution was. not novel. - There was the Royal Naval Academy • a! Portsmouth; and the Royal Institution at Wool. wish for' Cadets in the,'Artillery and •pgineers bt!t hoWever important .theSe had proved, they could only hoconsidered.as subordinate parts of a whole, if the Academy for 'Artillery, Ste. bad • been 10 Q *so — itseittl, - how much 'More . would this now Proposed, which had respect. *to the general Staff of the Army I Seine, judgment might bes-formed of the Utility of sucb an :Est,tblishinent, from what had la Cen'efrqdea,u'pon a, very litnited scale at If gh kyy., comp", at the small ,annual execute 15901. Of the Officers educated there,' nine had been found 9 4 46-0 to an ai , s Assistants to the Quarter-Masier- G emal of she Army ; and of these, four were nosy with the Army of Egypt, and had been fOund o f t h e ' moss impottant service; hesides.these, sex retnained qualified to- join thoStadol the Army, The benefits of this Institution had alreatlY extend. ed in nineteen Officers, 'who had joined their Regi. Items, and twenty-four now 'remained there.under a "curse ' An obje'aion pro_ ' ° s&l plan might .posSibly be started • upem a Con :'-itittilonal ground, that the House ought 'alivays to hav e x CoLstiturional influence over the, Army ; but " 2 - proposed grant would no more take, this Witt. Zlce out of their hands than auy other Annual :rule for the Supply of the Army. bucli a Sys. `tmarical Institution was more necessary no'w • than ever; when France, ,our inveterate Erie*, 'ad obtained four.fold . means of tarrying on War against us, and from the formidable aspen of the political horizon of Europe, when Peace itself, finder prese n t circumstances, can be. but a hollow Armed Truce, and-when the envy, hatred, and, un charitableness of almost all Europe contin9ed to Perseeute this Counery. Was it not then incumbent Parliament to strengthen both - the arms of our public security? Mr. YORKE then mn-ied " that a sum not ex,. te edino 30 Pool. be granted to His Mrsj is TY fof the purchase o f •lands, and for building a Military '"ege, for the service of. the year 18 ‘ or." Mr'...3*()/VES. said, he could riot look upon a ensure of 'this ` riture, which recommended an emulation of a syitesti of Continental policy, with out . 1 considerable degree of constitutional jealousy. , • might have supposed that this measure had been t)orrew-ed from Prussian or Austrian Generals. He disliked every thing that tended to Germanize the tnglish. Army. He %visited the Right Hop. Gen tie amil had not mentioned the worn Pe4c.o in .the Way 4e - had done, and in .corineetion' with such, opprObrious terms on our Enemies. 1-k should not le t Lis face wholly B. ,, ainst this rpe‘Abttile ; but, if P L lrsticti, he should wig; to sec a siminir Itutitution , With respeett to the . 1%, vy. 211r.`r'01? h saW, s,o such liv,titutien was want-' td t re"gpt.4l tt l / 4 r the Navy - ; according . tothe !Ystctu on whiCii our Navy. ~vas ev - r.Y is tlu Scrvict. rat. itselfitself the 1)6(6‘;1,k1-)1 strut ion. J teiitics, there• was a .person in every , Man of War ) whose province it was to ttistrua young men in the duties of their profession. Mr. JQNES explained. Mr. MARTIN said, he remembered the, time, when a Standing Army in time of Peace was reck oned-unconstitutional, and he inight -say the same with respal to the Barracks ; but lie wondered not, after such attacks had beeo o n the Constitu tion; that a measure of this nature was brought for ward; and he declared, he was old-fashioned enough to wish, that this Country might depetid on nothing but our Navy 'and Militia. Mr.YORKE defended this measure from any at tack on the Constitution. Mr. IFILBERFORC,E"iaid, he highly - approved of the measure. In proportion as he wished to see a small Standing. Army, he wished to see that Army well instruled and disciplined, . and so as to render the most etfeaual Service. He only wished the Plan had been farther extended, so as to include a system of Education and support for the Children of Soldiers. Mr. YORA.'L said, it was his intention to move an -additional sum _for the better support of the Children of Soldiers, so as that ther.Building at Chelsea might contain too° Orphan r Children- in stead of goo. He thought it better to provide:for that Institution out of the Public Purse, 'than. by the present plan of dedutting a day's pay from the Soldier ; the amount of this might - be from s 5 to zo,oool..atid when the Meaßure was brought for 'ward,, and particulars stated, he trus.tia this stain would not appear too great. In - the mean time, he should move in the Committee, that the sum of 84721, be granted, to His MA J ESTI' for defraying the .Expences of a Royal Military Asylum for Sol diers' Children, at. Chelsea. Mr, WI:VDU/1M concurred in thinking that it' was, infinitely better the expence. should be charged on the Public than taken from the Soldiers' pay. Mr. WILBERFORCE wished to know, whe ther the Institution was to be confined to the or phan childrenof Soldiers ? Mr. YORKE said, it was intended in the first instance to apply this Tnstitutiun to those children who had lost their fathers and in their,' and in the next place to those who had lost their fathers. Mr. WILBERFORCE said, that the children of , although not orphans, in many iu , tances called for the compas‘ion of . the House and the Pob lic, and he thought that even if aeting from a Fir triple of dry economy, it would be, ropers to make some provision for them, as the best recruits for the Arm r. _ , Mr. O'HARA said, the Hou , e should consider that tlfe Army was voted from yar to year. The true policy was to consider the Soidieras a Citizen, and that he might return at Peace into the Alas:, oi his Fellow-Citizeni; whereas to eticate the Chiidr,:n of Soldiers for a military life, might lead them to t different idea. • Pr. LtiIitRENCE agreed that the Soldier 'should not be considered as sepirated from the mass of `the Cotnmunity, but the present measure was pe l riectiy disOnd from that, and was one to which he per_ feCily acceded. It wits necessary at' a. time ttihen Europz was.assuMing,-a Military charaa‘:r, and tary coufedepcies Were! forming.. This Country could never be extedlcil to take a tead,in the tary counsels and confeder.cies - of Europe., without the means of operating to that efrltd. Mr. WILBERFORCE, appyoved of t . .e prqpc. sitiou before the House ; . but he rather %vishe.l it should be carried farther than was now proposed. — It was not only the orphans of Soldier:, bet even these children whose parents were alive, were gre.tt objetts of the compi'tsslon of the liou,e indeed, in the present state 9f the world, it would he ci , .!sirethle that a much mote general system of eduction could be adopted. ' Mr. WlNtHAM'said, that it had been supposed that the object if the Institution was to make those Mho Sere admitted into it all Soldiers, hitt' it liould be recollected, that p obably one :half of site childre,n would be girls, and as to the boyl, i t would depend upon their own choice - whti‘her they would be Soldiers or not. and Dr. LAWRENCV severally ex plained, after which I:he Resolution; was ;4greed to, .hid the Report Was ordered to -be received to:inor.: _ _ The keport of tie Indemnity Bill was brought up. F. BURDETT 'presented a Petition from a person of tie name of }high, who taken upi and imprisoned in consequence of 'a warrant from the 'Secretary of State. The Petition, whieh was at considerable It ngth, concluded with praying that the Flabeas Corpus Indemnity Bill might not ribs. It wts ordered to he raid on the Table. Sir F. BuRDET/ presented a Petition from :ma. then person. ' Mr. .d4KEI said, these Petitions contained as sertions which might be true, or tuight, be false, but which the persons who were accused had no op. parrunity of answering ; and he really thought it hard that persons who had, in times of difficulty like the present, done their duty to the Public, should be exposed to charges which they had no means of answering.. These Petitions contained a great many allegations which would remain upon the Journals uncontradiatd, because the persons accused had no opportunity of contradiding them. The. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER . said, there was. a great deal of weight in what had fallen from his Hon. Friend. When the first Pe. titian was read, he thought it, was presented upon the ground that the 'Bill before the House went to deprive the petitioner of t remedy for some griev_ axe which he had sustained, hut this was by no means the case ) for the Coons of Justice were ,now open, in& 'Would continue to be so after the But passed, for the redress of the grievances stated in these Peeitions. , 1 lie Petitions hai no reference whatever to the Bill, and consequently were not at, all applicable: Besides,, he agreed with his 14cm. Friend, that the House ought to be reludant in en citayges io which the peisons agair at whOin they were made had m no eahs of replyin g . —lt ,atight appear strange to some Gentlemen who had not looked hack into the proceedili..zs zind or d ers of the Bow; its ;let times, but great leirrtb anti ratticular:ty . werd obleatorts tO Peti. tion. There unlcrubtedly must be limits to a Peti tion, ,cause otherwise public business would be in tempted, and the whole time of the House might be occupied in reading Petitions, however irrelevant, me, elv if they were couched in respeaful terms. — If this praftice was suffered, the Votes could not be printed in time, the Journal, -Aruld be overloaded, and 4 very great additional oxpence incurred in printing them. He therefore, in jimitice to the per.. sons who were attacked, hoped the House would be upon its guard with.tespea to these Petitions, more especially when they did not apply to the Bill of which they complained. Mr. .H. MOICE said, he did not know the names of. the Petitioners or their Cases, but he really did not think the I-fouse ought to rejda the Petitions. There was no doubt but that the late 11Iinisters had aged in; many instances contrary to Law ; but he did uoe.mean. to, say that they must 1 necessarily be guilty beeaitse they had done So, be- cause there Were many cases in which men were not only excuseable but praise-worthy, for adiog Crary to Law. 'The.lath undoubtedly thought, that in aeting contrary to the Law, they had acted beneficially for the Country; if they thoUght so,' they had a right to be satisfied, but those who thought otherwise, : certeinly had a right to petition therefore he thought these poor people Ought to be allowed to compittio, for it was all they Could do ; for as to redress, they certainly could not obtain it. If they began to renew their mal-prae tices, the Ministers had the power in their hands, and might take them up.; but he really belieired that the present Mioisters: would merely take up pe s t. Son s. of this descriptirin, bat they would experi ence no unnecessary hardship in theirconfinement. Upon these grounds, he thought tbese Petititms. ought to be received, even if they were a little ir regtilar, because no mischief could possiblY ensue. C 1141VC ELLOR (Me EXC HE QUE R said, lie hld not opposed the bringing up the Petition, he had merely cautioned time litin4 against permitting a praaice which might be ottremely" inconvenient to put)lic ; the Petition did not 'apply to the Bid, becitwe it did not tic, r ve them of a, reme . t., for the giievances of V.'hich they cotnplained, they complaiimedmi•rely of the.comitinent aoll re tcritipn, t h en the r et inani %stook' tic applicable to the ; but they comiJained,of ill-treatment, and this . Biit by no means teak away , the remedy which the Law gitve them:. • Mr. 'l'ooxr expiaitied . Mr. 1 E k .said,. the complaint of the Peti tioners was for ill-treatment in prison, which was iii eonseqUenec of their commitment. • , The CH CELI.O It of the Exc. EQU E explained. Mr. 11 1 71.1"1:BRE AO conceived that petitioning was the inherent right of thePeoplc cif thii Country, and therefore he was 441ou"islieti to hear the. Right Hon. Gentleman say, it was an ObjZaioll to a Peti tion if it was 'too long, .cr too minute in detail.' Lord WICESBORY said, that his Right Hon. Frie,nd had been completely misunderstood, Nobody doubted but that it was the right of the Subjea to petition. His' Right Hon. Friend had merely state4-That it might be eiitnised in such a manne( as to produce great inconvellience to public business. Those were the greatest friends to the right of petitioning, certainly ought to be the Most anxious to prevent its abuse.. The beSt' way ,to protect the, righr, was to use it : with moderation. Mr. GREY disaproved.• of the doarine which had been laid down. The persons'who had the most o;xasion to petition thoste vho perhao'had the least means, from want of:learning, of draWing them up with stria accnracy, and therefore, he thought the House ought not to lie too s trict T in ohjetaing" to a Petition because it was too.long. H • was of opinion, that ,the tnere con venience of the House Ought not to be put in companion with the most valuable rights of the Subjeo. The C I ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in eXpißki:itiOti, said, he had never stated that the mere convenience of the Houst; was to be put in compmi. don with this most sacred and valuable privilege. lielutd only said; that the. House ought to attend to the rnanner in which it was , us • e d,: Mr, IV. SMITH conceived the Petitions' were relevant, and my lit to he received. Dr. LAWI is NCE rose—,-when the E AK. P. a submitted to the Howie vvhetlier the discussion ought to go on, as there was no objedion made to`receiv tug the Petition. , --A short conveNrition took ph t between Mt, PIIF:Y, Mi TtLi;.tley, .and tie • SP?, AY.ER,. upon thiti . pO;Of Order. After whkh vi tic B Continat:.3 tie said, there mi l ht be infor:nalities in the. Petition, but perhaln in the e'ilse of Peti4ns it ‘ was not 61,44 to in Lb() Stfiet.---, 14th there ,untioubtedly might be too much pirrtieu, larity in ' editions ;tier ought they unnecessarily be 'made the meiLllS 'Of conveying charge4.again!it. public persons, who could not regularly answer them. The Petitioni,was. then brought up and tread ; it stated the hardships which' the Petlttoner, had suf fered, and prayed that the Bill.might not pass.. Another Petition was piesegted. by Gem WAL POLE (as we understood) on behalf of a person of the name of Eastbourn, stating hardships' which he alledges he has suffered, and praying relief, andthat the Indemnity Bill may not pass into a Law Or tiered to be laid on the Table. Mr. Tr ERNEY 'presented a siMilar Petition on be half of John Bone, of Flee r-streer, complaining' also in ~ 11 similar manner, and ending With a similar prayer. Ordered to be laid on the Table.' The Amendments made in the Bill by the Corn- mittee were then read and agreed to; and the Bill was ordered to be ingrthssed and to he read a third time on Thursday next, if then ingrossed. The Order of the Day being read on the Bill for exempting Members serving for Ireland from the payment of ~ c ertain Duties on impottatidn of goods .as they import them, or bring .tber'n into this Coon_ try for their use, Sp. ABBOT observed, that the Bill now betore rite houSe bad for its_objetl to_exempt , MeMbers sat Parlittnent coming from Ireland from the Dutie Which Were imposed on carr'Llge,,plAte, alltib t ooks, -- &c. These Were objects settled some measure by me 'AZI of Union bet -Ween the, two, Countries.; and although there be -sotne iustances in wt ith these Members might be inai.le to hear be liens limproperly and inequitably, yct it would seem a elictriorlitlty that the pro' :slons or the ACt of Onion should be dots t iiway, as it wqs prop , .Aqi they should by the ;resenty Md. He trot iit therefore that 'Government might give such tiller:. lions to the Oft,cers of the Revenue an might make the matter as little embarrassing asitosslble to the Gen,tlemen who welt' the suhjea of these At the same time he . thought that the main nbiva __ • of the Bill now before the i foose ; which eotild not be obtained without a Legislative Provision, he should think of providing for by another Brli bet ter adapted as he conceived ) for the ltidt•pose intended ) than that which %vas now befor the. House. He meant to include in that Bill ) if the [ - louse should give leave to bring it in, Ail perkons who were compelled to come from Ire. land on their public dury, although they might not be Members of Parliament. For these reasons, it was his wish that the present Bill might be re. moved altogether; in order that another Bill it!ight be introduced. For which purpose, he should móVe, that the Order of the Day for the House going into st Committee of the whole House on the Blit he alluded to, might be discharged, which he moved, and after a few word!, ffurn Dr. LAW It A, Mr. Tittticu, Mr. CU ILLY, and Mr. W. SMtr i, was . . Nut, and agreed to. Mr. Aspol• then moved, " That the said Bill be withdrawn."--44dereci. Ile next moved, « Thar leave be given to bring in a Bill for exempting from the .payment of certain Duties, such I4lenibers of both Iloo.ses of Parliament as serve fc-r either .h louse Of Parliament for Ireland, together with such other persons !Is are therei;i de. scribed, and as may I:ete..a! - only an occasional x:esi. (knee in Great Britain, ike."—Gr.mted. This Bill was afterwards brought in by Mr. CURRY, read a fir“ time ) and ordered to be read a second time tomorrow, and to be printed. The second reading of , the - Irish Uourt of justice regulating Bill was deferred to 'I twit, on the Motion of Mr. GEPO GE I'ON 01113 Y. The Notary Public Repiating Bill was read a second time, and ordered TO be committed to a Se. le& Committee, for the purpose of malting its Pro. isions extend to Ireland and Scothuid, on the Mo tion of Nlt. Lursiir. The It ish COntroverted Eldlion Bill was read a second time, on the' Motion of Mr. AB wr, alter at few words frtirn Sir jetitz SiNcLAta. The Irish Spirit Regulating .Bill, The Irish Ex piring Laws Bill, awhile 'lrish. Distillery 13:11 were' read a third tune, and passed, on the Motions of Mr, CoRRY. The Standing Orders on Road and inelosure M r s tt ore agreed to he submitted .to th consideration of a committee, with a view of coining to one general regulation, and• to assimilate the . proceedings of both Houses of Parliament, on the motion of Mr. BunccE and the •SFCRIITAILY at Wit. The Resolution of the Committee on the impotta. tion of Tea into Ireland without the payment of duty, was agreed to. ' Mr. CORRY stated, that he had submitted this propositiOn to the Chairman of the l East Judi% House, and it was approVed. He tywefore moved, " That 'a Bill he brought in pursuant to this Resolution." •--Ordered. The Bill fur the "more `speerly an d effe6lual re. cowry of Exchecrer Debts due to Hl5 MA 1 lisTy England and 'lreland, and making the judgment of the, Court of the one evidence in a certain man.. ner in the ather, was read a first ,lime, and ordered to'be read a second time to.morrow, and to be printed. The Bill for regulating the Trade of Malta, and for declaring that the same b?IonV: to Europe, %vas read a 'fi6t time, and ordered, to be read r second titne to-morrow, on the Motion of Mr,Vnea4 tlr A R Several Orders of the Day were dtlerred can the Motion of Mr.' VANsITTART. 'l'he Copper Bill was read a Second time, and or.. dered to be ctmmitted to a Committe of the Whole House to-morrow. Agreed' to 'go into a Committee of the whole. House tomorrow on the Irish and English Star op Duty Bills. 6eferred till to-morrow the third rending, of th* flair Potvder andMearti to Wednesby next. The third reading of the Fines and Forfititures Bill to-morrow. Mr. VANSITT AkT observed, that the mode of eollMing the Excise Duty on Bricks had been found to be so inconvenient, that it was deemed cx. pedient that the Duty should no lobger , ttke on the size and weight, hut on the number of Bricks. He therefore,. said, that ;thiS subject was to he submitted to,a Committee. of the whole Howe to-morrow. He gave notice also, that he should submit ref t ommittee , cl the wholelloTA: to.mor. my, a Resolutio , t, for exempting Rice, ant-other Articles of Provkinn, tlom the Duties at present payable on, the Sale of them by way of Auction. On the Motion of Mr. Pitaairottrr the House resolved itself into a Committee on Campbell's Di. vorce Bill. , Mr. BRAGGE suggested the propriety of the Hon. Gentleman's moving to rennrt r -• p ,6, and to ask leave to sit again, as the Holistwas thin that the Clauses of the Bill, two of which ;ire of the most important nature, could not receive the proper discussion, and as be could not agree to their being passed without further deliberation, if t:ie Hon. Gentleman persisted in carrying die. BPI through the Committee, he must move to count the House out. Mr. PIER REPOINT complained of die expellee ,• attenning tnese repeated (it:lays' to Dr. 1 / 4 -amPneit, but agreed to postpone the. consideration of these Clauses in the Committee till 'Friday. ,The SPEAZER obsf:rvect,'l4.ft the Von. Gen- tleroann had not comulted the .s 3 in of expcifee. to Dr. Campbell, in mQvint; the Committee on the Bill in so thin a Hor , i..t. ; of that as far as 6ept.n ; lea nivm him, f.trtl;s:r 04;r0e.:. txt saved, he 110 W proposed that it shall be understood that tnis FAA-- 'less I r.hail come on first after, foor O'clock on F r id . ,:„;,. This arrangement was nreeti to in the Commit.. tte, and confirmed t h e 'The House ; , ..icort,eci at ttm o'clock till t.;.1110 , row. I