The Sun. — London, England, 1804-06-13 00:00:00

azreel to, and order...ea to be real a third time to;: morriv.v. _ _ _ SLAVE TRADE. On the Motion of Mr. Wz LB a FORCE, that the House should resolve into a Committee upon the Bill for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, Mr. MANNING rose, and argued upon the justice aZ granting an iodemnity to all Persons who might suffer any loss by the operation of this Bill, and of the propriety of ing rafting a Clause upon the Bill itself to provide to this etfeo. Understanding, however, that such Clause could not be introduced but by the vote of a previous Committee, by whom an instruaiora must be direfted to the Committee on the Bill, he should move, that -the latter should be postponed until to-morrow, in order that time should be given for the former. After scme conversation between the SP EAKER, MetsatiNo, Mr. FRANCIS, and Mr. WILBER FORCE, it appeared, that the objee.t of the required corrpensteion might be proposed efter a previous Committee, &c. in . the Report of the Bill, or by way of Rider in u future stage. s'eir. FULLER opposed, with considerable ani , mation, the Motion for the SrEAKER'S leaving the Chair. He saw that Dessalines himself, as well as the Americans, and other Nations, were taking 'up the Slave Trade, it was therefore quite nugatory to talk of othet Nations being disinclined to continue it, if we gave it up. Fie took notice of what had been said, concerning the crime of witchcraft, which he described in detail, as being neither more nor less than the destruftion of persons by a poison, operating slowly. He alluded to the mode in which this Country used to transport convVis, which was a species. of Slave Trade ; and the African States had precisely the same right of disposing of offend ing subjetts. The Trade was not likely to he put down by any Abolition of ours s it had continued from age to age. He felt no sort of uneasiness, after all the coot that bad been held, in taking a Negro into his plantation, and giving him a Patti. ciliation of its advantages. Those who were most vidlent in their outcries against the Slave Trade, were the haters of the West India Colonies, They hated them, because they were the means of bring. ing such a mass of opulence into the Moller Coun try. They hated that opulence,. because it tended to promote the dignity of the Mainarehy, and to up bold the Constitution, the Strength, and the Glory of the Country. The riches we derived from these invaluable possessions, "assisted us in spreading the :Navy of England ttitirophent over the main, and, therefore, it excited the envy of the Mr. FRANCIS replied to the observations of the preceding Speaker. He thought the description o f . , witchcraft, given by the Hon. Member, was, in f ,,a, murder, and as such, it deserved to be punished. But he denied the right asserted, that every State had a right to sell, as Slaves, its offending Sub jet s. .I\ro State had a right to punish pereons beyond the measure and pioportion of the offence committed. He cited a passage from Mt. Pais ;ce. an author be fore alluded to, anti who was, on the whole, to be considered as hostile to the Abolition of the Slave Trade. That Gentleman spoke highly of the in oocence, and virtues, and happiness, and even of the civilization of the natives in the interior parts of Africa ; hitt he observed also, that they thotight with horror of being taken from their native scenes, and ptit on shipboard and sent to foreign lands, where the best that could befal them was to become Slaves. No man had a right to make another 'happy, ,cyen if he could do so, against his will. He conclud ed by expressing his approbation of the Bill, Mr. Fuotaa explained. Mr. l';R 00 KE. read the Decree of the French Go vernment after the Peace of Amiens, re-enading all the Laws respeCting the Slave Trade. As to the statement, that we had. nine tenths of the Slave Trade, he believed it ; but he would not agree that, if we abolished the Trade, so "much of it would be so dune away, particularly when he reflected upon the readiness of the Americans, the French, and Spaniards to engage in a traffic that was so produc. live, and which none of those Powers chewed the least disposition to abandon. Mr. ELLIS thought the Gentleman who argued for the Abolition, would be obliged to go 'foe argu inent, to the declaration of the French Assembly, that " Slavery is inconsistent with natural rights, and therefore could not exist." He had never met with one person experienced in the Slave Trade, who had maintained the policy of the Abolition.— The present Proprietors of Lands and the WeSt India Planters had no share in the criminality it had originated with this Country, and it ought to rake to itself the blame, and stand tOolieconse ' quenccs of it ; it was, therefore, merely a British question. The passing of this Bill held out the Strongest temptation for contraband trade. It was exceedingly difficult to' separate the two questions of Emancipation and Abolition. "'lt 'was' neither unnatural nor improbable that the Negroes might take upon themselves an anticipation 'of . ..thine Oleo sures which their ;friends" were suggesting for them in this Country, utiderthe idea of the Trade - being unjust. Such a proceeding had been already tug bested by the example - of Sr. 'Domingo, arid this Bill was likely to create the Same"difEculty. Unless such a Bill was made . an Aid of the •ExecetiVe Go. vernment, either no good would be derived from it, or great evil arise. • Mr. DEVERELL argued strongly against the Bill, as inconsistent with.the rights and privileges of the Colonial Assemblies. He quoted Oh this point the great authority of Blackstone, in a part of his Commentaries, which explains the nature and extent o f the powers which colonial regolarions were to possesss. He contended also, that before the Bill could be entertained, the question of 'prudence owl' policy shop4.l be impartially and fairly reviewed. A good deal had been adduced in favour of the Aboli tion, from the present situation of the Island of St. ' Domiego,• and the dangers which - would necessarily result from fresh importations 'of Negroes. The Colonial Legislatures must, however, in his opinion, be the best judges of the consequences of Abolition, and they, it seas not unknown to the House, had al-, ready declared themselves adwataesto' the measure. In the Island of Jamaica in particular, the House bad heard from the - Hon. Gentleman ..4"ho-was th e Agent for 'that Island, that the Colebial' Legislature there were decidedly adverse to tha. measureof Aho ;ition, as, in. their ppinion s. o4cA;lat;cl to promot; no , , it beneficial,eonsequentes while, on the contrary, might, in the present situation of the West India Islands, be produaive of eifeas highly disastrous and deplorable. It was to be kept in view too, at this moment, that there aaually prevailed a diffe_ rence of a very serious nature betwixt the Governor and the House of Assembly in Jamaica. So far indeed was this carried, that he had reason to believe that the Governor could not again meet,the Assembly, without a considerable modification of demands, for.. merly enforced. He asked then, whether, after this declaration on' the part of the Colonies, and with tlye knowledge that such disagreements as he had alluded to, did exist, it would be either wise or prudent to agitate a question which might be preg. nant with mischief Mr. SOMERS COCKS said, that all the argu. merits in favour of the Abolition appeared to him to be grounded on the principles of humanity. How far that might be the case, he was at a loss to de. termine. It was impossible to ascertain the amount of the loss that might arise to individuals from the Abolition. It would be attended with many unfor tunate circumstances, and, in point of fan; would produce more evils than already existed. In con clusion, he alluded to the condua which a Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. PITT) had pursued on this question. It might, perhaps, be owing to his want of knowledge of the world, or to a suffi cient acquaintance with the mode in which the busi. Hess of the House was condu63ed, httt it had fre quently occurred to him, that if the Right Ho-, pourable Gentleman had employed the fair, honour able, influence of office, the great objea which he professed to have had so cordially in view, would long ere this time have been obtained. He con jured the Right Hon. Gentleman, now that 'he had returned to power, to employ all his fair and honour able influence on the present occasion ; and, he trusted, that from the spirit which had displayed itself in the House, an end would at length be put to a traffic which had been so long the disgrace of this Country and of Human Nature. Mr. 1141211,4 M thought, that if a proper plea of compeniatiort could he made out by persons inte. rested, it would be unjust not to grant it. He was of opinion, that the Bill ought not to pass wlthOut consulting the interest of every one concerned. He might call the attention of the House to the case of a fe,inor having an estate in the West Indies, six teen or seventeen years ago, the value of which would now be comparatively destroyed by the mea sure of Abolition at present under consideration. Surely this would be a case equally unjust and se vere ; but if no compensation was to be afforded, numerous cases of equal severity and injustice would take place. He trusted that before the Bill passed, these circumstances we•uhl he fully attended to. Sir ROBE/U' BUXTON defended Mr. PITT against any charge of insincerity in his support of the Abolition of the Slave Trade. He had made it his business narrowly to watch the whole of his con dud re«peCting it, and he had never witnessed greater evidence of" the cordiality and zeal of any individual in a public cause. Because his Colleagues did not support the same side of the question, that was no proof of his want of 4eal. The House would recollect, that formerly this was more a question of opinion than national policy, and such disagreement was easily accounted tor. Now it had assumed an important national interest, and he trusted no time would be lost in carrying through a measure which even now he thought, or was at least afraid, might Come too late for the preservation of our West In dia Colonies. _ Mr. DENT said, that it ought to he considered that there were no less than 7000 Sailors employed in the African Trade, and betfariXt 3 and 4. millions of money collected by Taxes on the West India Trade. saw no degree of humanity in the (flea sure', and conceived that the discussion ought not to proceed further during this Session. He would, therefore, vote against the Motion, as he thought it would tend to do injury to all parties concerned, '• without benefiting the Slaves themselves, If the plan was to be brought forward fairly, it ought to be after evidence had been produced at the Bar, shewing the real situation of the Slaves. 'At such a late period of the Session he did nut think it pro • bable the mat ter could proceed further than formerly. Mr. WILBERFORCE made a Speech of c'inside- rable . length, in which he recapitulated, and en. forced more strongly, all the arguments he had formerly used, in favour of the Bill, and quoted several passage from Mr. Parke, the African Traveller, to show the situation of the Slaves in that Country. Sir int. YOUNG rose, not, he said,for the purpose of going at large into .t discussion on the principle of the Bill, as on that he should reserve himself for the third reading, but to refute some assertions which had fallen in the course of this night's debate, from the friends of this Bill, and particularly from the Hon. Member who had introduced it, that were, he would assert, utterly unfounded. That Hon. Member had said, that the usual allowance to the working Slaves in the West Indies, was from four to seven pints of grain in a week, and that. in some of the Briti,ll Islands, not more than orte.lialf the por. (ion was allowed that was given in others ; and that not more than half the allowance was given by the Planters on their estates to'their working Negroes, that Was tiscally allowed to those in Prisons and Hospitals; 'and that though this allowance was al. ledged to be given to the Negro in proportion to the ciu,:antum of land allowed him for cultivation by his own labour, which, on a great number,f;e'States was little or none, no man, he said,',..c c oofil.make such an assertion, who was not utter- ignorant of the interior management on the West India Islands. It Wgig gross and unfounded imputation u,lon his brother Colonists, whom he felt it his duty to defend. He was himself Ptoprietor of a very conside. rable estate in the West India Islands ; and after he had formerly opposed the Bill of the Hon. Member, he had visited the West India Islands, and made the tour .of eight of them, to be convinced from his own observations what was tlw. real faft; and every where ' 14: found his attention Challenged by the comfortable: situation of these Negroes, rlentifully maintained, who, the Hon. Member and this sup porters, had tcpreseored as in a starving situation. He , declared there w a y 1 . - not a single , in's'tance threugl out the whole, where•tlle Ne , gro , wtas not all awed a spot of ground for OWn ; and so e l - - • tensive and produalve was this spest, in a Mit many instances, that no allowance was made to the Negro at all. For except merely the sheep and cows, fed on the pasture lands which belonged to the Planters, every other article of consumption on the Islands was furnished by the Negroes to the Planters, and paid for by them, such as hogs, poul try, esculent vegetables, 4c. ; and so prosperous were the Negro Plantations, and Negro Trades men, in some of the Islands, and particularly in Tobago, that he believed there was scarcely one of them at this moment, who had not an 1001. sterling at his command. It had been said too, that the Planters discouraged breeding amongst their Slaves ; and with this view, the importation of females Wa3 greatly inferior to that of *males. So far from discouraging breeding, though it was their interest, they could not effed it ; for even, though the females were considerably fewer than the males, yet of this few, some had four wives, arid many of thosit too Christians; for the wholes 1300 upon his own Estate were all Chris. tians ; and though very good and devout Christians in all other respells, theee was an Aristocracy amongst them, the head men of which could have their free twife, and their hive ! wife. It was an easy matter for the English Country Gentleman, sitting by his fire.side, amuse himself with declaiming against the imaginary cruelty of the gentlemen of the West India Islands to their Slaves, upon false and exaggerated accounts; but the West India Qentlemen did not advert to the many severities and oppressiOns imposed upon , the labouring poor throughout England, by the arbitrary hand of the Country Justices, and the different Parish Officers, of which so many severe cases came before the CoUrt of King's Bench, on appeals respeding the Poor Laws. With respeet to the importation of African Slaves into the island's, he would be glad to learn how otherwise the gap was' t'o be filled up in the population of the Country, which War or the de. scents of the Enemy's Privateers so frequently created. He himself had lost a considerable num ber of valuable Negroes by the War ; how was he to replace them hut by importation He did not hesitate to assert, that the Abolition of the Import Trade was imeparable from Emancipation : it would change every fee-simple interest in the West Indies into a mere life.interest ; that it veould destroy the whole Value of estates, and 'of dowers and provi dons for children entailed upon them ; and he con cluded by saying, he never should vote for it, unless Landed Propriefors i whose estates were depopulated by War, or other causes, were permitted in such case to send Ships to Africa for the porpose of pur chasing cultivators : for how was the WO to he cultivated without hands Mr. WM. SMITH spoke at some length in depre. cation of the conduft of the opposers of the Bill, in disputing it, night after night, and taking up the time of the House in repeating arguments that had been an hundred times refuted. From the argu ments of Mr. Long, the Historian of Jamaica, him self an Enemy to the Abolition of the Trade, and who had wrote upon this subjeft long before it was agitated in Parliament, it was acknowledged, that within the Islands themselves, there was ample means for discontinuing the Importation of Slaves from Africa. He was heartily sick of the term Humanity, so bandied about by those who talked of the benefits conferred upon the African, by taking him from his Country, his Kindred, and his dear est connexions, to transplant him to a distant Island, and a better situation, We had no right to do so against his will, cyan though it werc really to transfer him to a state of liberty, comfort, and happiness. How much more impious and unjust was it then to pretend such a right, for the purpose of dooming him and his posterity to endless slavery ? Upon the great and immutable principle of justice then, this Bill was not to be shaken, and he trusted the !louse would no longer sanetion the violation of the precept, " thou shalt not do evil that good may come of it." The evil, in this case, was positive and enormous ; the result, as to any good, uttrrly uncertain, but possibly even much more mischievous than the evil itself in the first instance. The question being now loudly called for, the House divided; Ayes 79 _ _ 7 Noe 4 Majority for the Committee —59 The House then resolved into a Committe4 on the Bill, Mr. ALEXANDER in the Chair, Mr. WlLuEßVOttclt iaIOVC4 to fill up' the blank for the commencement of its operation, with th e words " first of January, 1805," which was agreed to. He also moved an Amendment in the words "provided always that no ship bringing Negro Slaves from Africa to any of the British West India Islands, shall be liable to seizure or forfeiture, which shall be proved not to have taken her departure from any Port in Great Britain or Leland,before the expiration of 14 days atter the passing of this Bid, or from 'any other Nit in Europe or Africa, Rrevtous to the Ist of Au, gust, 1/304," which was agreed to, and the Chair. man left the Chair, and the Bill was ordered to be reported to.morrow, when Counsel are to he heard. Lord TEMPLE wished the Hon. Meinfo(..r who introduced this Bill would have the goodness to say, whether he would consent t'o the examination of some further witnesses on the l'epott of the Bill ? Mr. WILBERFORCE answered, certainly not ; but he would beg leave to refer the Noble Lord, if he wanted evidence, to the volumes of evidence al. ready before the House on this subj4o, iu the many 'successive Sessions it had been discussed. Mr, Ft7t4Ett was for adducing more evidence, and said, he understood the African Merchants had a considerable mass of testimony to bring forward. WESTANDIA COMPENSATION Mr. IVIANNINg m)ved, that a COMllliltee be ap. pointed for to.morrow, to inquire into the most proper mode of making compensation to those per sons who should sustain injuries or hisses in conse quence of the Bill for Abolishing the Slave Trade. Mr. PITT said, be should certainly object to the Mition in its present form, because it assumed as a princple, in the first instance, that by this ad of jo.tice, which the House, had thought fit to adopt, loss and injury must necessarily and of course fol. low to 'the perr.ons concerned in the West India 1 4 / 3 tie. "lhe H4Use, however, he trusted, would not be induced to concede to such an admission ; end aeh it 'Ol ouTd be ttme enough for the vvisbal #bsticeofParliament to devise compen , ation whet' ° Y special case of loss, or injury sustained, s hould be fairly and actually made out. He did not mean to argue the point now; but at all events the M otion was informal, and he believed it would not be re gular to put a question upon ir, as its dirett ten dency was to impose a public expence upon the Country, and it did not come recommended by th Crown. Mr, BARHAM' said, that even in the very first instance losses and injuries would be inevitably sus tained by persons who had formed Contra6ts and vested Capitals in this Trade ; but it was extremely desirable to know what would be the properes c mode of proceeding to claim compensation ; whet her each individual injured was to make out a special case for Parliament, or whether all collectively, for bun-, dreds would bc injured, though the general sum compensation might not he considerable. He wish : also to know whether, the House having adoptea a Bill for the Abolition of the Slave Trade , it was to bc understood the Crown would not recommend compensation. /1//r. PITT said, that whether the Crown t oo or would not recommend compensation, he was ° e now prepared to say ; but ;he Motion for th e P r sent was irregular. a The E AKER corroborated this declaration, -41 declined putting the question. NN INC ~ low Said WM:thing, in a Ver•Yivio Mr. MA . voice, whiCh . we understood to he notice of a h .fi t tion for an address to His Majesty on ;he s u q next Friday. DEFENCE BILL. AN" Mr. , G 4 E- i e rose to ask the Right Hon. 0%14 CELLOIL of the EXCHEQUER, whether it was ' l , e intention to take the sense of the Hous e upon tn Report of the i ht; Defe n ce Thursday Mr. PIT"' ans o wer ° e n 4 ai should arise in the Coii) ' . ' s t o h b a s t eq u ue: e t s! day sane ' poin.4 ',ramie PiClect Co r' •,, he his in euisinp to a late hour on Thiirsdaro s' he 4teraft, tention to take the sense oldie HolOc.t r A — io tliO that evening , o t h e rwi se on Friday' i n --Ade; 4 third readigg of the Bill on A4 o "d a Y'''' - i 'l-fgli. at half past ten. ' '' -...4.114=0......41......e. tile d 154:. Asigi vs9 ' nuit. ' tiamburgh ----- 7 e PRICE OF 'STOCKS, "'HIS DAY AT T.WILLV/i, d'cr.ecoc. (it Como., - - 1 - Ei.ed , . ' 4 , THE $ SOLZM QUl$ DICER]: FALO II 4 AVDS,`Z --------------""."..111 - UV E '3, 1 LONDON, " 7 80 ; • 4f - 1- ' , .. . . . . the kr c o is up o t n ry a_ll hsnds, agreiti, that the si tl e ti t ° I! , - t ilotwithstantaing imt F re i '.„4 • :0 wark, requires an extensive Military 'Pefeneet ; order to place us above all the artifices, as well °, Ara all the Force, of our invete rate Enemy a :' li tii though a Plats has been brought forward, sv'erc• may be considered as affording not only 3 512 0 1 k Defence at present, but a permanent aoPrce.os' national proteOion, an ambitious Party a re plan;°t what they can to obAtrat the progress of that co ins:cad of suffering it to obtain all the imPrc' s : il • ' cu scer of which every scheme mt4st necessarily b e ..„ via" , Ethic that is derived from one mind, holgo ve ` r? ene ep ful in itself, and however enriched by ex . P eri- e ' of and enlightened by ra . —, ,ooa sense re ton, The b f u lly the Representative Body will, we daub' Par ' c es s . triumph over this Party Spirit, and e nsure G sli e c nerit.i to a system that embrace's all the . o bjea s f a . • e to ll th e e fen fe c e e l , i,, b g y s sure m ea nsf. ind k, ii increas ing 0 f his individuals th an a a n o ci ;i sll3.esest m tvgli jj e :: ' ~ city of Mr. ?ITT -i3 an auspicioug °len s , o f hi' an d thouS2 .crainst him , , future success in this measure, `.S ..A reli . 3 greet L r tile 17 - s ln t i r n u i g S g te le ria i i s s s t t a il b l il t ity in, g eneral ;--'7Pti o come ; to : t 011 . o YI. his ad v ersat ies will make a strong u s " ''' u nderstan d ' fe r 4, yet they reserve themselves, We Moodati on full and decisive trial of their forc e I;jends that next; when we oanfidently tris t vitz rously in his of their Country will ;duster SO —o ° 1 10 c dea tnauence, .0 0 " . ett ed favour, as to spew that 1;' • 13 • d ci lf the real principles of the Constitution, a" oc i de. only to the national safety and honquts r nl , c he w fiance to efforts of arrogant ambition, intl . ":,. t he true rogeneous combinations of an interested f ar 1 ". _.het THE Proceedings against MoßsAt i 4 " 1 " at " : 11— Consi p ,)irators still occupy the ages of the fri we 0 0 4 "1 1 :: but it is probable that in a day or two 1- . the conclusion of this most eatraoedinary T ria f. It is impossible to contemplate the condua 011V1r; scAtt in his present situation, without icell;f the deepest regret. Although BoNispAivrs b a° et t reachery, by address , or b y force, contrived i ° S o; rid of most of his opponents, yet sve canii,,, concei ve any triumph which could gratifY th e more than that which he has obtained over character . of the once-esteemed MoitEAti• At e' ~ mirooA -- port was in circulation yesterday, that 0-. a be ° . ss and several o ther Conspirators, ha • Ibi , condemned, and had immediately we apprehend to be merely immediate ) for Or 0 , has reached this Co untry o five information n 5 übjea. ' . . . • . ) been shot. vsi Gcottq ,