The Sun. — London, England, 1822-05-14 00:00:00

then was an additional duty of two shillings and, sixpence afford immediate relief, which was what the Agriculturists per gallon imposed on foreign spirits. The consequence was, prayed for—not that the country would not right itself. — tam the duty, instead of being increased, was diminished to Was there nothing also like moral strength ?---(Hear !)—Was to 14569,0001. One would have thought that this would have there nothing like character in a country ? This favoured tongta Ministers that nothing was to be gained by screw- isle had done more for the'world than all the rest of Europe tos hog up the taxes, and would have induced them to retrace their gether. it had advanced science—it had advanced the cause of steps. But what did they do ? Why, in 1812, they raised humanity—it had supported, with some few exceptions, the the duty on Foreign Spirits to 19s. lid. per gallon ; and what cause of civil liberty, and what he thought the highest ground of was the result P The importation of Foreign Spirits fell from boast, it was the.coutitry in which toleration first took root; and 2,000,e00 to 200,000 gallons, being more than 1-13th of what though from recent occurrences they might fear that bigotry it woo before, ancVreducing the revenue from 2,000,0001. to still nad the ascendancy, it was no such thing—bigotry was con -20,001. The Honourable Member next adverted to the quered, and would never revive in England. Having this sense substance of his Resolutions. He wished to repeal taxes to of the rank England was entitled to hold, he contemplated na the amount of three millions two hundred thousand pounds, tional dishonesty, per fi dy and robbery,with horror, and he hoped only 1,400,0001. more than the remission of taxes contemplated that d e a t h would close his eyes before he saw the degrade by the Noble Lord. He thought- that so much taxes might tion and the infamy-of his country.—(Hear, hear !)--The Peti lee repealed with safety to the public creditor, and without tioners from different parts of the country thought that the re infringing on , the Siokineriind. -- Besides. the repeal of those duction of the debt would relieve the agricultural interest. Far taxis, fitiMan injuring, would improve the Revenue : over- from such a result; such A breach of faith would reduce all the taxatfolt . alWays decreased' instead of improving the Revenue. • interests of the country to a common mass of shapeless ruin. 'He The ealootfy, betook it, had grown three times more wealthy had doubt, however, that a very great reduction of taxation sinee 1792. 'The tax on wine at that period was - one million could be effected without injury to any of the interests of the and a half ; according to the'advance of the country, the tax country. He referred to the Colonies for example, and in on that article ought to befour millions and a half, but it did stanced the Cape of G o o d Ho p e. The Nav y *no, which had not amount to more than a million and a half. He was aware been a favoured service, admitted of curtailment of expense. If that the taxes which he now sought to repeal, .and even three he was told this would weaken the influence of the Crown, he times their amount, would not relieve thepeoplea but his wish should say this was an idle fear in the present state of the Intel was to carry something, and if' he could not accomplish that lect of the t:ninny. The Ministry had it in their power to corn reductiorowhich he would wish, and which the necessities of inand a degree of influence which would render them impene ihe country required, he would at all events strive to effect trable to every attack, arm them with the love of the country some reduction. He thought that unless the Right Hon. Gen- which, he was one of those who thought they did not at pre .tlerhan (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would be able to sent possess. He concluded by repeating his protest against shevothat the repeal of taxes to the amount 0f1,400,0001. more any plan of national bankruptcy. The moment national faith thaa the 'Noble Lord proposed to repeal would tend to the des- was violated, a scene of ruin and discord would be opened, and traction of the Revenue, he (Colonel Davies) could not see the sun of Britain would set for ever. —(Hear!) what objjetion there could be urged against the motion. The Mr. D. BROWNE thought the cause of the Agriculturists 'onourable Member concluded by moving the following Reso- had been injured by their introducing prayers for a change of lotions : Ministry. Ile did not think the Resolutions would be of much "1. That any tax which, by being unequally distributed, service to the farmer. acts as a bounty to one part of the kingdoth and to the preju- Sir W. W. NVYNN said it was most preposterous to sup s-gee of another, is, in its nature, unjust, and ought to be dis- pose that taxe s t o the amount of 20,000,0001. could be reduced. continued. , They must pay the,interest of the debt; and such a country as "2. That the gross produce of the Excise Duties on salt, this could never be without an army and navy, which could not hides, soap, and candles, in Great Britain, amounted, in the be kept up without taxes. Ile-would vote for the resolutions, year ending sth January, 1822,:t0 the sum of 3,857,2391.; and inpsmuch as he looked upon the import price now fixed upon -the net produce to 3,478,776 L ' . to be in a great measure the result of mutual consent. He la " 3. That there are no Excise Duties levied in Ireland, mented, however, that the duty was not higher. The great a on soap, salt, or candles ; and that the gross amount of the advantage of these resolutions was, that they embodied a mix duty on leather, in the year ending sth January, 1822, was ture of import price and of duty. 31.5941. ". Lord A LTHORPE defended the line of conduct pursued " 4. That the whole of the Excise Duty on salt, and three - on the recent discussion .of this subject by his Right Hon. fourths of the duties on soap, candles, and hides, in Great Bri- Friend, the Member for Knaresborough ; and also the Hon. tain., be forthwith repealed. Member for Winchelsea. Ile could not quietly sit by, and "5. That the taxes on windows and leather , in Ireland ,be hear any Gentleman say, that public credit was interfered with. - forthwith,repealed." It was said his (Mr. Tierney's) vote would be remembered On the Resolutions being read, ' when his speech was forgotten; but would not-the same thing -The SPEAKER said, he wished to state to the Honourable' be applicable to the Hot.. Gentleman himself? , Gentleman that the question before the House was, whether Mr. J. SMI Tat explained. the" Report should be brought up? To that Report the Hon. Mr. CH ALONER saw no impropriety in the Resolution Gentleman wished to tack certain Resolutions. It was clear Pro Posed, hy his lion. Colleague (Mr. NVyvill), which merely that if those Resolutions were adopted by the House , though went to reduce the taxes, and not commit any breach of faith they might profess to come from the Committee, they yet cou ld with the public creditor. • not he held as part of the Report. • Mr. PHILLIPS thought that, if the Hon. Member for Mid- After some other observations from the 'SPEAKER as to burst had been in the House at the time the motion of the Hon. * the informality of the proceeding, Member, for York was made, that he could have voted for it Colonel DAVIES agreed to withdraw his Resolutions for himself. The lion. hl ember then proceeded to notice the the present. reference which had b een made b y the Honourable Member The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER complained for Essex (Mr. Western) to the price of foreign corn. Great -that important Resolutions should be brought forward without difference of opinion existed on this subject as to the correct due notice previously given. quoting of the averages ; but he had got averages of long and - Col. DAVIES said, that h e laid those Resolutions on the short periods, by which it appeared that the price of corn at Table of the House some days before they had been printed. Dantzig upon an average of many years, was 533. ; that of • and put in the hands of Members. . five years , from 1796 to 1800, 535. Bd., an d 1816 to 1820 it Sir .1. SEBRIGHT said he was as anxious for the repeal of was a little above 675. Thus they had the averages taken at taxes as. the Honourable Gentleman or any other person ; yet different,: periods and different terms of years, and this he would he vote against the, esolutions if they had been put, and thought ought to be sufficient to dissipate all the alarm on the -for this simple reason—because he did not think they had any subject of high prices and the reasonings built upon it. He thing to do with the question before the House. He approved did not believe the House possessed the power of relieving the of the Resolutions moved by the Noble Lord ; he thanked him present distress ; but if they were to attempt it, it would be a for having proposed those Resolutions, because he believed great evil in legislation. lion. Gentlemen must not delude - themselves with an idea that high prices were consistent with - they were a distinct improvement of the Corn Laws. • The motionhaving been withdrawn--on the question, that the the interests of the agriculturists or of the country. If they Report be now brought up, being put from the Chair, . raised the price of the agricultural produce of this country high Mr. WESTERN said, that he would take that opportttnity whilst that of others was low, they must seriously injure the to express his sincere conviction that the Resolutions of the other interests. The manufacturing interest was now recover- Noble Lord would not either directly or remotely serve ing from that state in which the agriculture was. Year after , the agricultural interests ; on the contrary, he believed that year they had been condemned to see their capital wasted, and those Resolutions would give a very serious blow to' the even now their profits were extremely low ; and it was only the - a low wages of workmen that enabled them to go on, and this ge severe effects of the Bill for regulating the currency, riculturists. The Honourable Gentleman next - dwelt on could only be whilst the rate of provisions was proportionably Ste low. Gentlemen must not judge of the state of the commerce as it regarded the landed interest ; alluding to • the state of foreign _prices, he said that, 'at the present from the exports, as these were mostly made upon speculation, time, the price of wheat at the market at Hamburgh was from and not in compliance with orders ; and even if these exports ofefio. to 31s, ; the pricy of rye 13s. to 14s, per quarter ; theprice met with a favourable market, the proceeds must be eligibly . .of barley from eight shillings to nine shillings ; the price of disposed of before the merchant could count upon his gains. oats from ss. 9d. to Bs.; such was the state of prices—the He wished to get rid of the whole system of averages, as he freight from Hamburgh was not higher than from ports in the looked upon them as only misleading the farmers. 'Without t , county which he represented. Ile could assert, without the the averages he thought a duty of 20 shillings would be a very fr of contradiction, that the Resolutions of the Noble Lord, fair rate. He believed th a t the' weight of indirect and direct as So far from inspiring confidence or hope—so far from satis- taxation upon manufactures was as great and greater than upon agriculture. He opposed all the Resolutions which had tying the agriculturists, had a directly contrary tendency, been proposed, but those of the Hon. Member for Portarling and had created a great and general alarm. The Resolutions the Noble Lord amounted to a breach of faith with the ton. He hoped, year after year, he would press them upon of t Jaroled interest. The reduction of the importation price from the House ; for he was sure the longer they went on under the 80s. to 70s. was nothing less than a breach of faith. He be - existing system, the greater would be the evil. The more that Lewd it would be more satisfactory to the cultivators of the Hon. Gentleman was known, the more he would be respected, soil, if they were left to remain for a time under the existing as one of the most original and wise writers on the subject of law, than to be obliged to adopt the proposition of the Noble P olitical econom y . Lord. Mr. S 1/KES said, he had not yet been able to make up his mind to any of the Resolutions, nor amendments upon them. Mr. J. SMITH said, that it-was his opinion that the distress 41. the Agricultural body proceeded in a great measure from a -superabundant harvest, and that the House could not apply a remedy. Various remedies had been proposed, but it appeared to him that the remedies, as they were called, would lead to nothing but ruin and degradation. He regretted that he had been prevented by illness from attending the discussion of a motion of an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wyvill). The motion went to embrace a great and general reduction of taxation.; and the spee.:h with which it was introduced suggested the propriety of taking off SO millions—that was proposed to relieve agriculture. He did not think that if it were the intention to ruin agriculture there could be a better expedient proposed. The effect of ta krig off 20 millions or 15 millions of taxes would necessarily be Iminution of the expences of the country ; but how could the public expences be diminished ? No man would be so absurd as to say that the army and navy could be prevented from re ceiving their pay. What then was to follow ? He thought it would not be uncharitable to say that the meaning of the Hon. .I<eni;)cr was to reduce the property of the stockholder,—what mold he the effect of that measure? T-hefirst consequence would be to reduce the dividend of the fundholder one half—an act of injustice in itself, and one which would excite great alarm, parti cvlasly amongst foreigners, who had large sums in the English feeds. If dividends were to be reduced one half, or at all, fo rfteleers of course would be glad to sell out, and invest their naoaey in their own country. But it was not foreigners alone that would do so—Englishmen would be ready to follow their example : indeed, at the present moment, there existed a strong disposition upon the part of Englishmen to invest their pro perty in foreign funds ' • and it was clear that, if the Dividends were reduced by one-half, .that disposition would greatly in crease. The consequence would be, that Exchange" would fall iei this country, as it did in France in 1792 and 1793. The consequence of that fall would be a great and immediate de mand for bullion, and if that demand continued to be made, the Bank would cease to •pay in bullion in the course of one =nth. The greater part of the property of the Bank was in the hands of the Government. But if the scheme was once adopted that the public creditor ,should be deprived of his dividend, the question would soon arise whether the Bank lied a better right to be paid than any other of the public creditors ? In that state of things, it would be certain that the notes of the Bank would not, and ought not, to pass. The country banks would next close their doors. independent of their connexion with the Bank of England, the country bankers were themselves fundholders ; their puperty depended upon the state of public credit; and if that were interfered with, the country banks would not stand long; a scarcity of money would necessarily follow. If there was aty principle more than another which that House main - Wired, it was this, that a scarcity of money produced low prices. If prices were to fall still more, the land would produce little more than the support of its ,paupers and the cultivator. He lamented teat he could not attend in his place at the discussion of the motion, and he regretted that he did not see the Hon. genilmeelis who proposed it in his place; he respected that Hon. Gent--hc respected him the more highly, because he was the son of a man whose name was dear to the liberties of his coun try. Lie was aware that the Hon. Member for Winchelsea (:,;r. Brou e e-ham), and also his Right lion. Friend (3f r.Tierney) voted for the :notion ; for his Right Honourable Friends he had the highest respect—they acted from conviction, no doubt, but still he regretted their votes, because their votes were likely to he remembered when the qualifications which they ads.c.r.ed to them would he forgotten. He knew it would be said that he belonged to what was called the Monied Interest, and that he did not feel for the interest of the Agriculturist.— With respect to the Monied Interest, he was not aware of any act of cruelty or insensibility ever committed by them. The Honourable Gentleman next alluded to the state of taxation. —lfe Weuld be glad to repeal taxes as much as with safety could be repealed. Ile would wish to oppose the Leather Tax, because he lucked .pon it as an injurious and op presswe tax • various other taxes ought to be repealed, and for the velpeid of every tax he would cheerfully vote, save that ge o'v*l sweep of repeal, which would lead, not to retrench ment, but to infamy and ruin.—One objection to the motion of the Honourable Member for York was that it did not which had been proposed, 'and therefore he had abstined from voting upon any of them. In his opinion it was not from su perabundance of produce that the distress had,beee caused, but by the alteration of the currency. He considered that (I reduction of taxation was the best ground upon which na tional credit could rest ; and lie agreed with the Honourable Member for Callington Attwood), that when corn was at a high price, all other interests must suffer. He did not agree with those who stated agriculture to be exclusively in a bad state. Ile thought the manufacturing interest was also suffering. Mr. RICARDO, in explanation of allusions which had been made to his statement of the prices of foreign corn, begged Hon. Gentlemen would bear in mind that there were two au thorities on that subject that were quoted from generally, who differed much in their items. The calculations of Mr. Solly were made in conformance with the variations of our paper cur rency, and were, therefore, always higher than those of Mr. Gray, who made his calculation upon a fixed exchange. He had built his argument on the latter; and it would be found that, whilst he quoted from one paper, Hon. Gentlemen quoted from another, and thus the misunderstanding . arose. He hoped therefore he should be acquitted of any intention to mislead. Mr. ATTWOOD contended that the whole of the Resolu tions proposed by the Noble Marquis were founded on falla cious views of the subject. No information had been laid be fore the Committee with respect to the corn in France. It was agreed, however, by writers oldie best authority, that the price of corn never diel materially differ in this country and in France. It was utterly impossible, for any Corn Law to regulate the price. of corn, for it depended on the value and amount of money, which was the price of labour,' and there were no means of affecting the price, except by altering the value, or increas ing the amount, of the circulating medium. The Noble Lord opposite had said that great abundance prevailed universally in every part of the world but there was one country, Por tugal, which might have 'furnished an exception to this re mark. The Honourable Member for Oxford (Mr. Peel) had talked of the flourishing state of the Exchequer, and had boasted of the operation of his own Bill in diffusing unusual abundance among the,labouring Classes of the community. The unsettled state in which the arrangements with regard to our currency were placed, was a subject which deserved the serious consideration of the House. If the suggestion of the Honour able Member for Essex (Mr. Western) were adopted, and we returned to the paper standard, which existed during the war, the price* now proposed would not afford that protection which they were intended to afford. If, on the other hand, it was determined to adhere to the present standard of value, he would then say that the country was not on the eve, but in the midst, of a great and extensive change, which would affect not-merely the agricultural, but all the great commercial and political interests of the country. What the issue of this change would be it was impossible to foresee, but he nost earnestly de precated aey attempts' . at rash and improvident legislation on this subject. If the House could not afford effectual relief to the agricultural interest, they should be cautious not to increase their calamities, and, by provoking (heir resentment, raise a storm in the country, which it was much easier to excite than to direct or coutrotil. It was too much to say that the currency was established on an unalterable basis, when this iniquitous mea sure was working the most ruinous effects in every part of the kingdom. If his Majesty's Government (lid not disregard every principle of justice, they would immediately consent to a reduction of all pensions and salaries in proportion to the altered value of the currency, for it was not to be endured that men whose salaries had been raised on the ground of the de preciated value of money should continue to enjoy them, when the altered value of the currency' had produced a difference in the value of those salaries of from 30 to 50 per cent. He thought the Resolutions of the Noble Marquis were in no de gree calculated to answer the expectations of the country, and he earnestly exhorted the House not to agree to them.— (Hear, hear !) The Marquis of LONDONDERRY was surprised that the House should be called upon to pause, and in fact to decline receiving this report till the scheme of the Honourable Member could be realised. When he said that 41 salaries and pen- sions ought to come down, he could only recognize one of those attempts which were so common on the opposite side of the House to excite the passions where it would be much better to establish convictiona.—(Hear, hear, hear I)—The pensions and salaries, it was well known to the House, had; with some ex ceptions, been generally reduced. Those who held office had suffered from the depreciation of paper, and had not gained by the reformation of the currency. He therefore called upon the House not to be led away by the declamatory sophisms of the Hon. Gentleman. He replied at some length to the remarks of the Hon. Gentleman for Essex. To exclude coin from being imported altogether was not the object of the present Bill, but to regulate its admission into the market, and effectually to guard against the country being inundated with foreign corn for the time to come. This was accomplished by the duty, of 17s. per quarter now to be imposed, which added to 10s. at least for commercial profit, would always make it come here when it could be imported with a burden of 275. on it. He denied that faith was broken with the farmer, as the Honourable Member for Essex had contended, by altering the importation price from 80 to 70s. as the latter price was, in the present state of the currency, a . greater pro tection ian the former was at the time of its being granted. He therefore considered that there was no ground for the alarm which that Hon. Gentleman had felt. The present mo ment he conceived the fittest that could have been selected for legislation on such a subject. He hoped enough had been said to justify the bringing up of the report. -He begged to express his thanks to the Honourable Member for Midhurst, for tie moral and political lecture which he had read to those on the other side of the House, who had favoured a late motion. It must have been to him a painful duty, but he bad pesformed it in a manner the most merito rious. The motion supported by arguments in favour of remitting 20;000,0001, in taxes, involving national bankruptey, which had been votedfor by thirty-seven Members, was most injurious. The Speeds of the Hon. Member for Midhurst had produced several explaiatdry statements from other Honourable Members, and in the way had done good already. The time at which that motion !ad been brought forward was such- that the proposition was caculated to give a great blow to public credit, and, the Hon. ilember for Midhurst had his best thanks for the speech he had nade to correct the evil. Mr. HUME, for oat, disclaimed having voted for the motion which had been alluded to, on the principles supposed by the Noble Marquis. H: was confident that the Hon. Member for Midhurst had spoken on 'a misconception of what had taken place. Ile had belayed that those who voted for the motion alluded to had yowl for that which would break faith with the .public creditor, ant produce in this country scenes like those which marked the French Revoldtion. But he was convinced that those who void for the remission of taxation were those who took the best means of averting such a catastrophe. He maintained, in oyposition to the Noble Marquis, that salaries and pensions were now much higher than in 1792, and of this he adduced several instances. The resolutions of his Honour able Friend the Ilember for Portarlington were those which he should wish o see carried, and to those he thought the House must hereafter come ; but those of the Noble Marquis, he was of opiniot, would improve on the present law, and so far they had his :u port. • The Marquis tf LONDONDERRY and Mr. G. PHILLIPS ex plained. Mr. Secretary PEEL was surprised that the Hon. Member for Callington should have entered on the present evening into a discussion on tie state of the currency, when he knew that the Honourable Member for Essex had given notice of a mo tion which wouldbring that subject fairly before the considera tion of the House. As the Hon. Member had made several pointed allusions to him '(Mr. Peel), he could nqt allow the pre sent opportunity to pass without making some observations upon them. And here he must be permitted to express his surprise at the applause with which a part of the Hon. M ember's speech had been received by gentlemen on the other side. When he heard the Bill which he had had the honour of introduc ing into Parliament in 1819 called an iniquitous measure, and found that appellation of it cheered by many gentlemen, who had at that time supported it—when he recollected that the concluding resolution of Mr. Homer in 1810 contained the principle on which that individual stated that the currency ought to be conducted, 'and that that principle was, that within two years the Bank should return to cash payments—when he remembered that strong fact, and contrasted it with the cheers which had burst from Hon. Members, when the Act of 1819 was stigmatized as an iniquitous Bill, he could not restrain the indignation which he felt, or prevail upon himself to submit to such an epithet in silence. He would here take the liberty of asking, whether the principle on which that 'Bill was founded did not receive the support of the other side in 1316 ? The House must recollect well that it did receive the approbation of Hon. Gentlemen opposite ; and that circumstance made their cheers of this evening more extraordinary than they otherwise would have been. If there-was any man whose conduct he was more sur prised at than another's, it was the Hon. Member for Coventry. —(Hear!)—The Hon. Member had moved resolutions to amend those which he (Mr. P.) had proposed to the House. His (31r.P.'s) Resolution was a Resolution to compel the 'Bank to pay in specie in May 1823. The Resolution proposed by the Hon. Member for Coventry was a Resolution that the Bank should pay in cash in May, 1822,—(Loud cheering from the Mini sterial Benches)—without any regard being paid at all to any change in the standard. the 'Hon.' Member for Coventry might perhaps say that lie had also moved some previous Re. solutions. 'He admitted that this was true. The Hon. Mem ber had certainly made some proposals relative to the repay ment of certain issues to the Bank. But the Honourable Member said, that on leaving the house upon that occasion, he had whispered into the ear of the Hon. Member for Salis bury, that no return was to be made to cash payments, whilst the price of gold was 51. 10s. What the Hon. Member whisper.. ed into the ear of the Hon. Member for Salisbury he could not tell: 'he knew, however, what was the nature of the resolu tion the Hon. Member had recorded, and against his alleged whisper he would place in opposition his recorded resolution.— (Hear, hear !)—He would now return to the Hon. Member for Callington, who had endeavoured to overwhelm him with his wit and sarcasm. But as he was to share that sarcasm with his /lon. Friend the Member for Portarlington, (if he might be permitted, on account of the respect which he felt for that Gen tleman's great talents and high character, to use a term which he certainly had no right to use from long intimacy with him), he would only observe, that he was willing to share it, so long as he shared it in such company.—(Cheers.)—The Hon. Mem ber for Callington had repeated certain observations of his upon the fullness of the Exchequer, and had made his own com ments upon them. This made it necessary for him to repeat what he actually had said. Ile had said, that if the currency had indeed been raised Forty per cent. it was most extraordine r ry, and at the same time most consolatory, to discover that the taxes had increased in amount ; and that there was one of two alternatives proved by it,—either that the resources of the country were most flourishing, or that the depreciation had not been so great as was generally stated. But if he had spoken ,of seeing with satisfaction the result which he had mentioned, was it to be understood that he saw with satisfaction so much money raised from the people ? No such thing : What he meant to say was; that he had had great satisfaction in seeing that sum raised without any recourse being had to processes of law to extract it from those who were unwilling to pay it. His reason for making the observation was to use it in refutation of a witness who had been examined before the Agricultural Committee, and who had stated that the consumption of all the necessaries of life had for some time past been decreasing. The following was his evidence : " You have stated that in the necessaries of life you con ceive the consumption to have diminished one-third in Bir mingham; do you think that that diminution of consumption is at all general ?—Not quite equivalent to that; but a general diminution of the necessaries of life, I believe, exists through out theavhole kingdom, except in the markets of London. " Do you not consider that there must be a great diminu tion of consumption generallrof the necessaries of life, though not in the same proportion as in the immediate neighbourhood of Birmingham to which your inquiry has extended ?—I have no doubt there is a great diminution in the consumption of the necessaries of life in the United Kingdom. " Do you consider salt as a necessary of life P—Certainly. " Do you consider soap as a necessary of life ?—Certainly. " Do you consider malt as a necessary of life ?—Yes. " Do you consider candles as a necessary of life ?—Yes. " Do you consider sugar as a necessary of life ?—I do not : but the poor people do. " Do you consider tea as a necessary of life ?—Yes." The name of this witness was Thomas Attwood, Esq.—(Hear, hear !)—And, if he had spoken with satisfaction of the in crease of the revenue, it was because he had wanted to show that no decrease had taken place in the consumption of the necessaries of life.—(Hear !)—The Honourable Member for Callington had then stated, that if he (Mr. Peel) would ex amine the records of his office, he would find that this great diminution in the consumption of the necessaries of life arose from distress, and that that distress had . given birth to disturb ances in various parts of the manufacturing districts. Now, if the Hon. Member was speaking of thg present, he (Mr. Peel) must beg leave to say, that he found no disturbances at present existing among them. The Hon. Member might, perhaps, allude to the riots in Staffordshire and Monmouthshire—the only counties in which the laws had been violated. , Mr. ST TWOOD here entered into some explanations across the table, which were not distinctly audible in the gallery. Mr. Peel instantly replied to them ; on which Mr. Attwood ex plained again. Mr. Peel again repjied ; but as we did not hear the observations of the one Gentleman, we could not under stand what the answers of the other were. Mr. PEEL then continued, and, in allusion to the dis turbances in Staffordshire and Monmouthshire, contended that they did not arise out of any distress existing in those counties. As a proof of it, he would only state one fact :—The master manufacturers has offered to their labourers as. a day, besides two pints of beer each, and fuel for their family. Mr. ATTWOOD stated, that this was only for four days in the week. Mr. PEEL would leave it to his Hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire, who at his request had abandoned his Parliamen tary duties to visit in his Magisterial capacity the county which he represented, to speak more fully upon that particular point. He would now refer, not to the present, but to a past pe riod, to illustrate his argument. The period to which he should allude was a period under which that beauteous order of things, a paper standard, flourished most largely.—(Hear !)—Why, the very words " paper standard" was a contradiction in terms. Yet under that beauteous order of things what was the state of the manufacturing population? In 1816 and 1817 we had all the blessings of the paper standard ; but in those years we had the Ilabeus Corpus Act suspended, and several other pre cautions taken for the maintenance of our liberties and the pre servation of the public tranquillity. Disaffection to the Govern ment and the Constitution was not at that time attributed to the bulk of the people, but, as was stated in a Report from a Com mittee of that House, to causes existing among the lower classes, one of which was, privation in constquence of the lowness of wages and the increased price of the necessaries of life. " But," said the Hon. Member for Callington " there had at that time been a great revulsion of prices." To be sure there had ; that was one of the evils arising from the paper standard.— (Hear !)—" Oh yes," said the Hon. Member for Callington, " but you ought to recollect that a paper currency gives you wealth and capital." Of course it did, but only till a day of payment came.--(Hear !)--In 1816 what was it but an over issue of paper which led to great speculation, and a re-action of it created much bankruptcy and distress, that reduced the coun try to its pitiable situation ?—(Hear !) —That system might go on well if it were always to continue. But, though a man might be happy when he got drunk, of when he imbibed oxygen gas, still he must expect to endure some misery before he returned to a state of sobriety, or before he was again able to inhale the atmospheric air. —(Cheers.)--To go on well under a paper system, it must always continue—just as a drunken man, to be always happy, ought to be always drunk.--(Cheers.)-- The Hon. Secretary then proceeded to state, that he must again refer to the evidence of the witness whom he had quoted. That witness was asked, " Has there been no circumstance in the last two 37ears•but supply and demand to determine the price of any of the necessaries of life ?" To which he replied, " Certainly : nothing can determine the price of articles but the relative ac tion of supply and demand." That was an admission which the Hon. Member seemed to have forgotten that evening.— [Here some Gentleman on the Ministerial Bench interrupted Mr. Peel, for the purpose of informing him, we suppose, that the Member for Callington was Mr. Matthias Attwood, and not Mr. Thomas Attwood.] Mr. Peel then proceeded—He had thought that it was the opinion of the Hon. Member for Call.. ington, that he had been quoting—sure he was, that he had seen the same, or similar doctrines, from the Hon. Member in print—and he had referred to them to show what he conceived to be a great inconsistency in the argument o,f the Honour able Gentleman that evening. Alluding to what had fallen from the Honourable Member for Callington, regarding the making corit the standard of value, the Honourable Secretary said, that from the year 1700 to 1783, there had been little or no change in the price of gold, whilst, on the contrary, there had been the greatest fluctuations in the price of. corn. In 1815, when wheat was 645. per quarter, gold was 51.65. per ounce, and accordingly paper was much depreciated. In 1817, when wheat was 945. per quarter, gold was of much lower value. Indeed, of all articles corn was that which it was most unfit to fix as a standard, since it was liable to great fluctua dons in consequence of the smallest increase or decrease of the natural quantity in market. After some other observations to the same effect, the Right Hon. Gentleman sat down, stating that he should not have addressed them at such length, had it not been for the pointed allusions made to him by the lion. Member for Callington.—(Hear !) Mr. ATTWOOD explained. Mr. ELLICE defended the course of conduct he had pursued on the discussion of the Bill introduced by the_ Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel.) There was no man who more sincerely admired the talents of 111 r. Horner than he did, but the House would recollect that when Mr. Horner recommended the quick return to the coin standard, there were only thirty millions of Bank and Country notes in circulation, whereas in 1819, when the Right lion. Gentleman introduced his Bill, there were sixty millions. He (Mr. Ellice) was free to confess that he did not then estimate the extent of that measure ; and he would go further and say, that neither that House nor the country had even then any idea of the extent'of the results to which it would yet lead—(Hear !y—lt would, he feared, be found as his Hon. Friend the Member for Bramber (Mr. Irving) had stated, a sa crifice nearly of one-half of the property of many individuals.— It affected every borrower, both public and private, to an ex treme degree, without at all being prejudicial to the creditors. If any person could have calculated upon such an operation, however solicitous to obtain a certain standard, he would have certainly paused before he gave his assent to the measure. Mr. T. WILSON defended the Bill, commonly called Mr. Peel's, against' the epithets applied by the Hon. Member for Callington, who called it an iniquitous measure. Sir It. 'WILSON said, that whenever the repeal of a tax was proposed, the Noble Lord (Londonderry) was always ready to call out " Revolution !" He had done the same on the ques tion of the Income Tax, and no doubt would do the same to morrow, when pensions and diplomatic situations came under the consideration of the House. Mr. LITTLETON confirmed the statement of Mr. Peel as to the refusal of the Staffordshire miners to accept of 3s. a day, and beer twice a day. Mr. DENISON supported the proposition of the Member for Coventry. Mr. BROUGHAM said he did not consider that he was bound to exculpate himself, as no one had a right to arraign him for his vote on 'Wednesday last in favour of the reduction of taxation. Even if any Member had used an argument of a doubtful tendency, he should feel himself justified in voting for the question without reference either to the person with whom it originated, or to the arguments by which it was sup ported. He had voted for the Resolution, because he was convinced that the best and most effectual relief was to be found in the remission of taxation. The House then divided— For bringing up the Report - - 153 Against it - = - 22 Majority On strangers returning to the gallery they found the House engaged in going through the Resolutions contained in the Report. • Mr. HUSKISSON rose for the parpose of submitting his Resolutions, not with any view (after the decision which the House had just conic to) of opposing- them to those of his Noble Friend, but he wished to have them recorded on the Journals. lie thought the House had, in approving the Resolutions before them, attended too much to one inconvenience—that of the danger of too great an influx of foreign grain from the warehouses, while they overlooked another—the want of a steady remune rating price to the farmer. It was his opinion that the safest mode would be a free trade in corn, with a fair protecting duty. Without this, the farmer would in time of dearth be inundated with foreign corn without an adequate protection. The time, he was convinced, would at length come, when we should have such a trade, by which the British grower would be protected in a degree equivalent to the advantages under which he la boured. .The Right Hon. Clentleman then moved his Resolu tions by way of amendment. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that in giving the negative to the Resolutions of his Right lion Friend, he would not deny the general principle which they involved, but he thought that principle applied to a different state of things. Hewes anxious to see the general basis of the Corn Laws in other countries settled down, before he consented to such a measure. The amendment was then put, and negatived. Mr. RICARDO then submitted his itesolutions for the sake of having them recorded on the Journals. They were also put and negatived. The other Resolutions were then ordered to be read a second time. After some of them had been agreed to, Mr. MAXWELL suggested to the Noble Lord that, by way of experiment, he should allow one species of grain to be im ported free, to ascertain whether the suppositions of several members on the subject were well founded; and to satisfy the manufacturers, who saw that every protection was held out to the farmers, while they were obliged to pay the increased price. He did not wish that we should have a trade without a fair pro tecting duty, but that should not be such a one as would keep corn enormously high. To talk to the farmer of 80s. of the present currency was delusion. * The consumer, whose pur chase regulated the prices of commodities, could not give such a price. It was idle, therefore, to expect it. Among the causes of the distress at present felt, he would place an under circulation of money, not an over-production of grain—an un equal taxation, and not a redundant population. •To render taxation more equal, he would, as money was the ground of taxes, follow it into whatever channel it flowed. Ile would, therefore, abolish all taxes on the necessaries of life, and sub stitute a property tax in its stead. Any other remedy which had not this principle for its basis should not have his support. The whole of the resolutions having been read, were agreed to ; and a Bill ordered to be brought in pursuant thereto. ENGLISH AND IRISH POSTMASTERS-GENERAL. Mr. S. RICE, adverting to a motion of his which stood for to-Morrow, wished to learn• from the Noble Lord, whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to resist the motion for the removal of the second Postmaster-General in Ireland? The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that, pursuant to an address of that House, Ministers had advised with his Ma. jesty, who had been gra'ciously pleased to recommend the re moval of one of the Post-masters in England, and he had now to state, that a similar economical arrangement would be Made with respect to the second Postmaster-general in Ireland,as soon as the'circumstances of public business would'admit. Mr. HUME wished to know whether a similar arrangement was to take place with respect to the post-office m Scotland ? The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that was under different circumstances. The Postmaster there had other duties I to perform besides those of the post office ; and besides, his sa lary did not exceed 8001. a-year. Mr. HUME thought 8001. a year too much for doing no thing. Mr. S. RICE thanked.the Noble Lord for the information which he had communicated, and in consequence of it would withdraw his motion. The second reading of the Cruelty to Animals Prevention Bill was postponed by Mr. R. MARTIN, on the suggestion of the ATTORNEY-GENERAL, to this day week. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' BILL. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of this Bill. • Mr. HOBHOUSE would not then object to the second read ing, though there were some circumstances which would justify an opposition to its principle; but he hoped a distant day would be fixed for its committal, as there were several clauses in it to which he was most hostile. The Bill was read a second time, and the Committee fixed for that day week. Mr. DENMAN hoped that his silence on the present occa sion would not preclude him from discussing the entire prin ciple of the Bill on a future stage, if' he should so think fit. PRINTING AND STATIONERY FOR THE HOUSE ANI) PUBLIC OFFICES. Mr. ARBUTHNOT moved, that, a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the manner in which Printing and Stationery were supplied to that nous?, and to the several Public Departments in the United Kingdom ; and to Report :heir opiniOns and observations thereon to the 'House. A IllEmßEtt - wished to know whether the Committee were to extend theirinquiries to Ireland ? _ • • Mr. ARBUTHNOT answered in the negative. The Committee was then appointed. Mr. G. H. BENNET postponed his motion respecting the licensing of public-houses, but he was not heard to say to what day. EMBASSY TO THE SWISS CANTONS. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY brought up papers (by order of the. House) containing a return of the Ministers sent from Great Britain to the Swiss Cantons, from the year 1752 to the year 1783, and a similar return from the year 1792 to 1822. —They were ordered to be printed. The.other.Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at ONE o'CLocx. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. PARIS, MAY 10.—Accounts received in Lon don by the packet from the Antilles, a few days since, speak of an expedition,' consisting of 1 1- vessels, with 2,000 men on board, having sailed to Samana (in the Spanish port of St. Domingod under the command of the French Rear Admiral Jacob. There is every reason to befieve that the object of this expedition is to protect the es tablishments which a great number of Frenchmen had preserved in that Peninsula, under the in" fluence of the Spanish Government. The Colo nists wrote to General Donzolot 7 Governor of the French Antilles, to requeSt hiS assistance. It i 5 stated in letters from Brest, that Admiral Jacob had disembarked 1,200 men on the coast of Samana• This debarkation was protected by 4 frigates, one of which was enabled to work in so near the shore , that its' fire could command the plain. Shortly afterwards a division of the army of Boyer came to reconnoitre these troops ; a brisk engagemen t tonic place; but the French, supported by the fire of the frigate, remained masters of the field.' The white flag remained hoisted at Samana.---- Letters from Cayes of the 9th March, received at Bordeaux, state that an embargo had been put upon all the French vessels there. This circum stance seems to confirm the first part of the intel ligence.—(Journal de Paris.) The Moniteur, alluding to the intelligence in the English Papers respecting Samana, says, ola the authority of the Jean Bart, now in quarantine in Brest, cc That at the urgent intreaties of the French settled at Ss mana, some of the vessels stationed in the West Indies proceeded under the command of Rear-Admiral Jacob' to offer assistance, and if necessary an asylum to those unfor tunate Colonists, manaced with an invasion which threatened consequences of the most formidable nature. But it is ab solutely false that any troops landed at Samana, that the white flag was hoisted there—that any hostile act Wa s , either committed there, or prepared by the vessels the Bing. There, as in all seas, they confined them selves to show their flag ready to offer an asylum, not m erely to Frenchmen, bilt to the unfortunate of all nations, when the Government, under the prOtection of which they were living' could no longer guarantee them from the evils inseparabit fef them, from a change of domination. Samana belongs - to SpAi' l; and the French Generals commanding in the West Indies are too. well acquainted with the rights of nations, to b e suspect even of wishing to take possession, either by surprise f orce ' of a country belonging to a friendly power." MAY I I.—Deputies elected by the Depart' meat of the Seine—MM. Gerard, Lafitte, Pe" rier, 6evaudan, Delessert, Lapanouze, S 3ll°- ron, and Leroy.' By the Department of !'Oise. M. Alexandre de la Rochefoucauld. CONSTANTINOPLE, APRIL 10.--We know 110° thing certain respecting our relations with Russ ia " It was supposed that, after the reception of t, ": Note of the 28th of February, which every b°" l , l regarded as decisive, Russia would have declare' war, but this supposition appears to have b een i. erroneous.' The departure of the Capitan Pa cd- t for the Archipelago appears to indicate thane Turkey believes itself safe on the side of 0' ,Danube. It would be desirable for Christian that the unfortunate Greeks, who still turn Sup' plicating eyes towards the North, should ,; w- t convinced by an unequivocal declaration t",.! they ought to reckon only on their own streug t " perhaps the result would he a submission to r° 11 " ditions at least supportable, for nothing is I n° „ re disadvantageous to them than that state of 11 " - certainty which has now lasted for four teen months. The'eapital is tranuil at present but sin ce the insurrection at Scio q commerce has, ceased en tirely. Immediately on the event being known, the Greeks, natives of Scio, were put under S ul ; veillance, and a great number of rich merchanta of that island being here, they have conceale themselves in distant quarters of the city ; six ° a the wealthiest have, however, been arrested an imprisoned. The Bazaar is partly closed. e The Capitan Pacha sailed the 7th to chastts Scio, but it is said that contrary winds have 1) 1 e c :: vented him from continuing his voyag e. a . cording to other reports the plague is on boar his vessels. tro ° P suburbs. New Since the h a v 3 e d b i l e l e s tn. the committed Asiatic passing through' Smyrna, to proceed to Samos a s a!: Scio, have daily -assassinated Christians ; the 1 ter dare no longer appear in the streets., e ster: yi T EsTE A , day, which lef P t i S tl m L y 9 ; 6—A vessel n . atlteil 11th Alkprrriivl.edAccoru t