The Sun. — London, England, 1814-11-15 00:00:00

ce,..sary.tere to recall to the recollection of the House that all duties are due on the importa tion of these articles ; that no indulgence can discharge the merchant from the obligation ; and that in order to protect the revenue, it NV a, necessary to take measures to secure the payment of the duties on any deficiency that may ,rise whilst the goods are warehoused. On export the goods paid no duty. Under these cir e,oistoeonig Altai it had , . always been signified to the merchants that the original principle of the Bonding System would be re stored when circumstances would admit of it, the Lords of the Treasury issued an order on the 25th of•November,' 1813, announcing that the duties would be enforced On the 31st of June, 1814, and that no indulgence would be - granted beyond that date, unless under very particular circumstances authorising an exception. In May last many re presentations were made to the Treasury, com plaining that the length and severity of the win ter had prevented the sailing of vessels, and re questing farther time. On the 7th of May the COrnmissioners of the Treasury ordered a commu nication to be made to the Merchants, extending the. indulgence to the 30th of October, and stat in that their Lordships still continued of opi nion, that the Bonding System should he restored to its Original principle, and that after the 20th October the duties would be levied. Their inten tion could not be conveyed in more concise or in telligible terms: Soon after some merchants stat ed•they had never keen the order, others that they did not think it would be acted upon. All the orders that had been issued upon the subject held out that the system was to be restored as soon as circumstances should allow of it ; and in all the interviews which the Merchants had bad with him and the Earl of Liverpool,' every attention hail been paid to any case wherein it ap peared that any hardship .was to be appre 7 bended. Coffee and barks were articles which on this ground were allowed to be continued in the warehouses twelve months longer. Much mis stmitement, he would not say misrepresentation, hail prevailed on this subject. If the Right Hon. Gentleman should take his opinions of matters of revenue from such authorities, he would have neatly as just a noti m of the financial situation of this country as those had of the political circum stances of Europe, who took their notions front magazines 'and reviews: The fact was, that the total amount of doties due on bonded goods was 1,200,000/..; that the indulgence covered about one,fiall of that amount, ,and that of the remain ing 600,0001. one half would he exported, so that, in fati;the sum which the merchants were to be called on to pay would not exceed 300,0001. and in the payment of that they were to have the still farther indulgence of defraying it by four monthly instalments of 75,0001. each. It was impossible tinii any arrangements could he more lenient or indulgent. If the Merits of the Warehousing Sys tem* should be brought into discuss 7 on, he was prepared to contend. And in '1 he was sustain ed by the Opinion of every Officer in the Customs end Excise, that it would be necessary to'proeide the. most vigilant checks to protect the public re venue. He felt, indeed, very strongly the great importance of the Systeme but it should be put under such restrictions as would iu sure all its benefits without even hazarding the interests of the public. In the present state of the accounts from time accumulation of goods in the warehouses, they occupied above 1000 folio vohnes. Timis was a state of things which could not be suffered - to continue. He was prepared to say, that it was his intention to bring forward a proposition for granting a considerable extension of indulgence on the Warehousing System, of the utility of which he could have no doubt ; but lie must say,*that preliminary to that, a general wind ing-up of the past must take place, in order that the new arrangement may be made more certain and durable. He had to ask pardon of the Com mittee for deviating so far from. time subject under consideration ; but pressed as he, had been for ex planation, he could not have avoided taking that course. Mr. BARING thought this was a question of the greatest moment to time commerce not only of theiCity of London, but of the whole country. lie would put it on the fair ground of time value of the Bonding System, which it seemed to be, the intention of Government to destroy.—(No ! no! from the Treasury Benche)—lt certainly appeared that the Right Honourable Gentleman considered it injurious to the prosperity of the revenue, and intended to propose some other system. One of the objects of which he complained was the want of information from Government on this subject.. For his own part,. he had never believed that they intended to persevere. The.whole.might be di vided into two distinct questions,---whether it were right to break, up the Bonding System altogether, or temporarily ? and whether the conduct of Mi nisters had been fair towards the Merchants ? • On. the latter point, he contended that these bad never condescended to give the Merchants that expla natiOn which they had now submitted to the House. He was convinced. that only to-morrow morning, whell'the result. of this debate, would. appear, would the great eommercial body of the land be acquainted ,with the real , intentions of Government. - As to the interview which their delegates had had.with Ministers, it had thrown no light on the matter. It was .only known that the Merchants had for two hours exhausted their eloquence, and obtained no word of an-. swer or information, save that they should be made acouainted with ,theiatentions of, Govern ment. This was. follawed by a dry notice, that on such a day a certain' portion of the duties must be paid. This was the first time that the mer chants could have entertained the slightest suspi cion of time real views of Government. The Right Hon. Gent. said, that great pains had . been .taken to instruct them, and that-by the very nature of the Acts which annually supported the Bonding System to its late extent, they ought to have an ticipated its present crigis ; but he should also have inon, that having received the same notice since 18.02, without having ever seen the threat which - it contained realised, it was natural they should expeCt it would never be put in force. It was only since time month of September last that they began to think Government really intended to carry it into execution. The consequence of this raleasure was, that in immense quantity of goods would be forced out of the Country at the most unpropitious season, exposed to the storms of winter, and compelled to pay double rates of insurance. Now -with respect to the Bonding System itself, all the. Right Honourable Gentle man's arguments went to show the supposed danger of the revenue, - and the impossibility of its continuance. He would state its advantages fairly ; they were these :—The • Bonding System allowed goods to be lodged in the Government or public Warehouses for the purpose of remaining there until exnorted, or introduced for the COll- sumption of the•country. In the latter case only was it fair they should pay duties. In the pre sent state of the Continent, when so many mar kets were opened to trade, and so many facilities afforded to it in the ports on the other side of the Channel, it was of the greatest importance that we should have a place where our goods might be int- . ported, and front whence they might be exported, without any other notice of them being taken by. the Custom-House but what would be ne cessary to prevent their being introduced for home consumption, without paying . the duties. Such was the manner in. which our Bond ing System had hitherto been carried on, and in that view he considered it as in a state of the utmost perfection. To prevent any alteration in so beneficial a plan, the Merchants had offered, in case it should be attended with any inconveni ence, any abuses, or any deficiency, to settle for them in any manner and to airy amount Govern ment might point out ; in fact, on the 'Ministers on terms But notlong could satisfy them ; the Bonding System must he broken up, and in con sequence the goods must either he taken away or thrown upon the home consumption ; though in that case, they had accumulated to such a point, that it would take at least ten years to COIISIITIIC them. He should take a future opportunity of entering into a more minute examination of the Bonding System, and doing ampler justice to its advantages. To be perfect, it shoui4Continue to allow the lodging of goods ill the national ware houses, without their paying any duties except when imported for home consumption. If the House would appoint a day, and a Committee, for . an enqniry into the advantages of such. • a system, he had no doubt the Merchants could bring such evidence as would at once establish the immense extent to which it would benefit, not themselves alone, bet even the revenue. The fact was, that Ministers derived their information on - the:subject from:incompetent sources. The business of the Custom-house was done in a confused manner ; the Excise had their thousand ledgers, and the difficulties attending the exercise of the dirties of the Officers of the Revenue, haul created the complaint. If a Com mittee were appointed to meet up stairs and exa mine into the subject, they would probably find that the whole proceeded trom official abuses. If the Right Hon. Gentleman intended to wind up the whole, and then start afresh, to this he had no objection. But he wished the business were at least decisively settled. The confidence of fereign ers had been much shaken by the last measure of Government, which seemed little more than the produce of a whim which had come across them. But even supposing all should be wound up and prepared for starting afresh, what inconvenience would there have been In letting the goods remain in the warehouses, and permitting the merchants to export on the new system ? Every kind of goods, he repeated, should be allowed to.be bry ported into tire warehouses, without any attention being paid to them by the Custom House, save as to what became of them. He once more com plained of the want of information on the real in tentions of Government under which the mer chants had Laboured, and maintained that it was not favourable to the revenue to force people to export their goods in tire manner which was pro posed, but should wait before he entered more at large into the subject, until he knew what plan the Chancellor of the Exchequer should propose for winding up and starting afresh. Mr. PROTHEROE thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman had reason to complain of the manner in which the last Speaker had alluded to what fell from him. The Right Hon. Gentleman had not said any thing of breaking up the system, but of substituting for that which was now loose, vague, and undefined, a fixed and settled rule. ROM observing the importance attached to the ques tion in the City of London and elsewhe:e, he had expected to receive instructions front his consti tuents on the subject, and it was due to the Right lion. Gentleman to declare, that he had not even had an individual complaint from: any one of then]. He concluded from this, either that they had not felt any inconvenience from the measure, or approved of it. The CITANCELtOR-Of the EXCHEQUER, after the candid observation of the Honourable Member who preceded him, begged leave to make a remark or two to the Committee. What had been called a breaking up of the System was an extension of indulgence of twelve months to many of the ar ticles beyond the time allowed by law. There was no case in which inconvenience had been proved that redress haul not been. granted. The rivaiship of foreign nations was to be expected, but the advantages of trade here •would enable us to meet it.. The restrictions on the Bonding Sys tem at Marseilles were more severe than any en-• forced in this country. The Right Honourable Gentleman then, in answer to the observation stating that there were ten years consumption of articles, to be affected by the present measure, as sured the Committee that the principal articles to be affected by the enforcement of the duties,were tobacco, wines, and spirits, .and of tobacco hut three weeks . consumption, of French wines three weeks, of wines not French six weeks, of brandy six weeks, of Geneva a thirtieth part, and of rum a two hundred and twenty-fifth part of a year's consumption. Mr. SHAW acquitted the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) as well as the Governer and Deputy Governor of the Bank, and the Gentlemen Contractors for the last loan, of every shadow of imputation upon their conduct on the occasion of the communication respecting the intention not to call for a new loan before Christmas; but observed, that it was well worth the attention of Government to devise in future more effectual means of giving general publicity to any such' connutinicatioa. Mr. BartiNo, in explanation, stated, that when he spoke of ten years consumption of particular articles, he confined himself to what he had heard, upon good authority, and did not mean to include every article bonded and warehoused. Mr. TIERNEY said, that aslo the financial,dis positions for the year, ..and the manner in whici the Chancellor of the Eachecluer has initmated his intention not to-demand a loan,or the funding of any Exchequer Ellis, -he thought it would have been better if he had made no communication whatever on the subject. He had no doubt of his having acted with the best motives, and believed that his views were perfectly ho nourable ; but the public had not had the full benefit of the communication. The Go vernor of the Bank, and the Deputy had not made known in the City the Right Honourable: Gentleman's intentions on that point. lie did not mean to cast the least imputation upon them ; but as it had been observed, the information might easily transpire from friend to friend. It was a fact, that previous tm its publication a consider able depression in the funds existed, and that un doubtedly those who were in possession of the Minister's views had it in their power to make money by it. The public itself had not become acquainted with the tact until two days after the communication lad been made by the Chancellor of the ,Exchequr, and great fluctuations had been 'experienced in the funds. - He knew that para gr;.phs had appeared in the papers, but such might have been inserted for the \ ery purpose of raising the funds, and therefore would not obtain gene ral credit. He completely acquitted the Chancellor of the E.xchequer of all intentional fault iu this business ; but through something or other the effect produced had not been such as might have been desired. The depression in the funds, to which he had already alluded, had, however, been occasioned by a prevalent opinion amongst coin-, mereial men that Government wanted money. He did not think that proper respect was paid to the House, in merely stating the want of money, witlfout adducing any grounds on which to justi fy it ; and vet that was the course which the Hight arable Gentleman had adopted.— He had not shown what additional services had been performed to render these additional supplies necessary. At present he wished to know exactly how much money was wanting to carry on the necessary expences of the country until the Ist of January next. For this he should vote, but for nothing more. The object of the Chancellor of the Exchequer seemed to be more extensive. He appeared to wish to get to gether as much money as he could, to put off as long as possible the next meeting of Parliament. At what time, and to what period, he intended to propose an adjournment, the Right Hon. Gen tleman had not said ; neither would he state it until he should have obtained his money. It was said, that, after having completed all the arrange ments on the Continent, we had time to turn to our own affairs ; but never had the affairs of this country been in a situation which required more deep probing than the present. To effect this sa lutary and necessary purpose, it would be proper to appoint a Committee, not to make a partial, hut a full report on the expenditure of the coun try. The result of such, an inquiry would prove, not that mere economy was wanted, but that ex traordinary measures should be adopted, to be able even to form a proper Peace Establish ment. He then apologised for the introduction of these topics at this period; it was not his fault it they had not been taken into earlier considera tion. A Committee, he repeated, should be im mediately appointed to take into consideration the real situation of the country, and to look its d'f ficulties in the face ! An opinion might be formed of those difficulties by looking at the progress of time extraordinaries of the army for the last four or five years. In 1810 they were 2,750,0001. that sum fell short by 6,270,0001. This deficiency was to be. made good; and therefore, to provide against a similar deficiency, the extraordinaries were next year estimated at 3,200,0001. ; the deficiency was then 2,300,0001. ; the following year they were taken at 5,000,0001. ; then the deficiency was 4,000,0001.; last year they were estimated at 9,000,0001., and now 10,000,0001. were wanted. But the Right Hon. Gentleman and his Colleagues had put into the Regent's Speech, that the re venues of tile country were flourishing. A more deliberate falsehood had never been put into a Royal mouth. The revenue could not tie flourish ing except it afforded an excess over the demands upon it, and was therefore adequate to meet the pressure upon it. The Right Hon. Gentleman then took a review of the income and charges of the Consolidated Fund, and of the various other branches of the permanettt public revenue in Great Britain and Ireland, together with the demands upon the same, end came to this result, that- in Great Britain the surplus of income above expendi ture, applicable to future PeaceEstablishmen ts, was 568,0001. whilst in Ireland the deficiency, on a tom- parison of the permanent charges with the perma nent revenue, was above 500,000/. ; so that on the whole of the United Empire there would be but a surplus .of" 68,0081.• to meet , the exigency and provide for the future Peace Establishments.— ..Unless the Right• Hon. Gentleman could gainsay his _figures, he could not overturn his argument. Where was the Right Hon. Gentleman to find ft sources, for a Peace Establishment ? He may, perhaps, following up his plan brought forward two years ago, resort to the Sinking Fund. By that plan be had saved the country many taxes, but done much mischief. As to the bag of one' hundred millions of treasure that he was to save,. he would ask where he could lay his hand upon them. In these two years that Fund had been re (bleed to 30,000,000/. The Sinking Fund was worse by 4,400,0001. than it would have been if it had not been for the Right Honourable Gentleman's plan. It was now but 11,000,0001. and would have been fifteen. That fund, he supposed, the Right Honourable Gentleman would not venture to touch. 01 the War Taxes, above two millions were already appropriated ; they amount ed to 9,300,0001. and were thus reduced to 6,500,000/. ; but if be should think of continuing them, he could not calculate upon more than four millions, This sum would provide for a Peace Establishment. A Committee upon the general financial circumstances of the country was the only channel through, which the House could say P' ,„ st lei ' t it tisfy itself to what changes should b e ;len t' S i tieixiepeladii.egnestst sense e rte o d f to, ole ‘ N v V o ll r a c t o re trefic- i 0944 detell the v ill i bad trespassed4ong on the attention t'illettoso mittec, but he bad done his ditty , 41/ ' 0 19 Y that it would not be necessary for h i !,, l e t° o ° , apology for having pressed the consi", - „ 1 : of veryimportant a subject anon its nt )1 ; Oil The CHANCELLOR of the Exci 4F ;? l•l , 6 l o9°ll lti the right which the Right Iron.uel.tictlo4 sensed of commentina• on the e% teli ;•ss l °Ti twl'i l :o ic u h g 1 1 1 1 e th i e n" ,v i • ~ qlge 0 1of,; him. He iiinotlreoodfac:evtil3iicnhtth) e t litecodii9octi ii..odlsill at the same time ackno' : , ,g ,' c 0 1 `•„.1 , portance, and when the time 511 0° ' :ttlio l f investigation, he trusted the House 'llltttel posed to meet it. and to ii-pire ‘ ll°t tsl ie t ments could be made, what e stahlis h "ls 9l-Jg b ;/ , He now rose chiefly to re pel two ell'‘r"e„1111°1414 the Right Hon. Gentleman - and whichh v-liti°' wise press heavy upon him. It had e ci t 'y r '', that in proposing the supplies for f° lll ! e t til thc o had wilfully kept back the real anonailittectly pence. This statement was most in c . ° 4 ,a 9 had' always shewu a ro ter disP°9ll-011.;tr withhold from Parliame p att ithe infora°,,Jett" 1, it was entitled to have. Whe' ulleqio°o9 cumstances bad disappointed lIIS CdIC" ,i , )00 to the sufli , iency of the sums grat'tetiniqii quickly stated the tact to the llou se 'bef t i the causes of the deficiency ; such a s t o e", eel expellee in the branch of the ila v '., tfit. )3,7 the return of prisoners and otileci-1", money was due, and the necessity, ` -5 014'1 a . larger naval establishment as 4 ,fto i or i man war continued. The army c%Perl: re did not exceed the calculations whicibilst:, made, but it had suddenly come LIP' b . c eivoi, been expected the arrears could have Oct over a more considerable period 016 0° 1 ' a 0 01 0 0 therefoie that it would be seen b e `,): 1 ' li,nglY, kept back the amount of qtly - ,t t i l i a ' a e be ciintrary had given every esPlan„-tber i t lay in his power. There was 311 :eel . which he was still more anxious •tOl-`..it ilit,l t that of baying put a wilful falsehood I ' re ly of his Sovereign, by representie r o , 'fai l ; the country in a flourishing eo;dit'°4ll V 01,5 ‘‘ , as in the most exhausted state. n ote Prince Regent could mean in thehrecti"ol Speech which touched Upon that 6ti:jjelldikl fairly justified in stating. The re c r il- 0 l e 'lts and was still, increasinc , from Yea.,taitsfyi from quarter to quarter.b The a c-° t be ' f itl' i he had already communicated Co d ct ( 05 satisfactorily T proved this inir i 'n -g t h o'„0 . " The revenue, which, up to the 1 . - ,iiialsis ber, 1812, scarcely exceeded 59 ( riti l : l if 1813 amounted to 60,876,000/. i g ri- thei i iii ed it) gr, , oli i . A sixty-three millions, which she"' an increase of three millions. [I -I , er : ce 3ll ,,iii stated that he had only made up t.';;ici', - e d i l had given to the sth Jan. last, at - I , ' e'' t r • thought the revenue would not rilu c i i iefo ° permanent charges.] He aduxittedt -vet'c tip to the sth of January last, the re e t ii i t i • not_ have mach exceeded toe pert° l3tl s i t ' ic i t' But was that a fair view of the of 044 the House consider the situation u: b e t o y at the close of the American Wa r i t ie e f ' ° dated Fond then also barely exeeededdifi)j4l (pore ; and the same predictio''s l itc ) o' l 0 0 er , il l i i ing ruin were uttered. Yet th e covered in a most triumphant u3lll4'"Al . attained a state of flourishing rosPerpod Il e? House consider the situation of .; ' ' ' g o s (tie d, respects. H The power of Frane e 'he ' ii' Ll 'e l r 9/ 1 Hon. Gentleman had stated, %cas , '', t lic i e ti'll longer formidable ; but %vas it 5 ,1 ° 1/. 0 0,; ie 1 00 11. tion of the American contest ? l'", () , ; 10, - De ~ Spain, France then displayed A iil' ,o s ~ ,91111 tude. Then the Consolidated Fan" j sor t il colt( A f' resource from which the nation ' ot . e t ' t 1 expenditure. There was n othing bey 3 r te st iiiel now, there were 24 millions o t t If e , a I. A it) did not mean to contend that if ill I, them, should continue ; but, if 1 : - . - t h' , '''t ,lii s ie, It a little to be able to do aw 2 Y ‘, : e l ,ce, ° . - c eol te t n l i i , ad been said, that, in cons e46- ,:re a 'i Alf the Sinking Fund bad h e • e ,; - 01 °',ol ) millions ; but when this was ia`-diere h e lions of added taxes, and ivn"hi-e to 1 " i f sixteen millions of stock apPli c3- rlit ti r ' l ' ing Fund at Christmas, deli th°ll9ntleeuh'e of complaint was very gh t ; c ar, 1 , 4 ; the close of the most prosperous th e v o i I filling the office of Chancellor ° f l ore i t hi / had been obliged tostate that there.ce a -,, i , of stock inapplicable to the serv,liitfereildliiilt then the case might have been:graoC,e'ept As to the period when the tag e l ' r iot !to ' j j liament should expire he s how .° fol io, „1-1 make any declaration, without f l e e o pp r fr 4 As to 00,00,,,,i.,r,,, judgment than his own. expressed by the Right Non• ( led t () , over,,l adjournment would be p'r°l°,rl I kets,;O r r : : length, the very nature of t' A le biat tv,, t ' o, l # Session , ought to have 'shoc,e",.geolle'eal, I were l unfounded. He nil" re els - ,,A c e; i ie P Rainy and Bank Restriction ' rliv tr t that Yap td ° the Ist of March next, ant. -„I r it, therefore meet before that Pe r i lc :i 'an d t- eli itr i ' ipiereitieanddgtoonefixsitifiiheeipeaottlyicuflaatr 4 i i i i Yis,s te't tor CV 4 satisfy the House. , at t ile pii y Mr. PONSONBY was surprse° litdc.tiVe tr . ' of the Exchequer's not having,lld c ',(l' if t o il whether the Proert To sh°,l,',i,iol l Pe'lh or not, and referring such a '.- wi t. t it ',f i e of better judgment. than :l' is i ' l l ° ega l c i i t !coee ei rli many objections besides It' ,S l ' life f o l q, tax. Its very nature was ua c i o ras l9ii to - i ff, might be increased, like th ar ' p jati °l , l cit ti . /' ,,) V' e ! ,cry .0 it made into the cir angleen,t..,ittoorffnesti;edintao'setxrong te ll ' . 9- I l i . 1 was intolerable; and be "*°',(l; tin' t ilio per cent. under - any other ta7ll:lteo-te.074/1 tinder the operation of tb is ,., lat,., *() , r ie v i,of Gentleman said that he g as . /1 - 40 ° Pi/ after it had been asked Pt:0000,0r, entity against a prolonged a r ' i l c ii olls li , t e l); cti:ienis'ctea; cesit7free'lerolifYiii sequence of the Batik .10t i l'P rc ,: O r */ Bills expiring on the `2 l s t (L it isl-ecridit ever learnt front this, tha t AS ti , o t , ' f tell continue them another yea r ' J on ' s t tP t ir .was connected with the Anie tbe ftc ll o l say that he did not dispu tc , b e 0 ° mum were necesiary , D i I . It , - ; Vt.t TI bETTC , 1.1 iti ft rif the