The Sun. — London, England, 1822-03-13 00:00:00

NEWPORT, which were inaudible in. the gallery, a Con'''. mince was nominated for the said purpose. CAUL; or - THE HOUSE. Sit. J. NEWPORT Averted to the notice he had giveh of a motion for the Call of llie . HOuse on the .i4th Apßil. He hoi4 to ;with view teo, rdake - Honitiiiiblbt Members. se(' uabitett Tittobe approach ' important Irish." , kotihriess,;c who might.. helh distant parts of the kingdom., H-e had•fet.ed • upon that time, because there were many other matters of deep o, llAtezcst,saad,hnpori.latc.e.to , the welfare:of.tllatzbunt* pending s'S , 'par s ticular . period, and it: ~as his . , intention.-lo cialtdie;rittee.tion -connt4irieli and' the douse sett • ° 1 0 1 5‘.-to 41i4 Ogitiark ..•af frelani%O ri that day.. 'He 'trusted that.. illembess regard. anyjpeonvenienee .• ' thej.itti t . ,4.Ebrkabet"to ciinSequence :of this .course' as a - l ) OP' T4rited - to theiwiiifferingocountrkv . Arid - he' beggid to as sure th,em thf.-‘t nothig : could be, more satisfactorpth:the peo p le. of ihiittrantty, sand hotliitig more calculated to conciliate them, thanithe attention of , dieir rulers and representatives to their iaterAsts an4complaints. This:was the nbject of his motion , — he deiired 'to eStabliSh in the hearts .of, the people of, Ireland -thbrebtifilence 'in' the Rritish Legislattife which they would 40ye • orie-.01 their own. For this purpose; he 'begged to -acne, that there be a call of -the House on,lgednes4ay the- Th - e., CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER'ekpresgP4I his eirtire coneurrence . itt the sentiments of -the.Hon,Baronet. submjsted to the attention of the Rouse by the , Hdn-13arbnet was= .one of the deepest'impOrtanee, which waotidOltdesiralqA they should 'come Ito the -cohsideration ' , -41 - iliZthe Most deliberative and most authoritative planner. : The question was then Tout, and tfl'e inoiiim agreed. to. : 1 , • PO.OR.ItATF;S: • • - • Mr ccIiAt i TEN4Y .; ,after.a few,obs.gmations , ,notaistinctly! iir the gallery,: moved that a Committee be appointed, togOsider of the Gitital Retints 'which' hadlicenlaul 'on the '-•tableXtbat Hotasollitrink the yearilBl9, 1820, 1821, relatirf 4 0+10-,Aitesum's .assmsed for rates in Great . Britain i ; and ep . - fir . s ztheir observttiong to the House.—ComMittee „appointed, • - IONIAN IS7LANDB. ' :7 Mr. 1113:1IE, in compliance with the request of Lord J. Buten, postponed his "motion on the sitbject of the lonian Islands from the 19th to'the 21st init. ' • • • COLLECTION OF THE REVENUE:, • Colonel DAVIES 'said, that hi directing'the attention of the flouse-to•this , Subject, pursuant to notice, it was not hi,* 'intention to go into the det,ails connected with it; - but merely to -In4cavenr.lotonvirlee ' thesn of the' propriety of taking , :this'! -branch .of the expenditure of public - money more particolattV ; under the- cognizance - of 'Parliament. When they-considered . that , it'.ititolved - the queStiein of a shin- of four Millions;::in the expenditure of which those who managed' it. were 'accountable _only! to themselves; Ire thought they would' see, that, in this' season Of , distress; it Avis their bounden duty to take the same salutary care of it at.Of -the other - smaller-sums. He need not -remind-the -House that it was alWays considered as owing to the patronage attached tiithe disposal of this sum that the Minister Tossessed the power. of regulating the • votes in that House.- his gave it a peculiar claim to their attention. All that he in tended to trouble the House with was, to come to certain Re solutions which he should- submit to them. One of these was to spew the increase which had taken place in the charge for' collection since the yeas 1310, as compared with . 1820. It - would be found that in the Collection of the Customs there was an increase of 11. 15.. - sd. per cent. • the duty on hackney coaches, 31. 10s. Bd. per 'cent. ; in` the Post Office upwards -of 21.:-per cent. ; and' on the hawkers' and pedlars' duty :neatly the same increase. 'He took all these statements-. ,: -nem the account laid on the table 'of the House. He had 'not gon; to 1792, .or - -1797, but taken the comparison 'with! • - . ,.a. - year,. when y the:::depreciation Of the currency - *as at :is height s :- 181.1. --Be neat 'wished to pledge-the 'House to -an -opinion 'thatarirmal accounts- - of this branch - of eifiendi- tare should be laid before Parliament. , He did not call for re trenchment, but that the four millions thus disposed of should be subjected to the same scrutiny as the other branches of ex- .penditure. It would; Pipbably, be objected to him that such a motion aa thiS 'did tiot deserve support after the statement of :' the Right - Hon. - the Chancellor of the Exchequer.. But he 1 should'Ontend that that statement was a reason for supporting it, as they had 'so- ;frequently before heard that all public de-1 partmentaheereOn their IMvest' footing. They had, however, ! • since that -been been reduced - lower; . and ' probably the expenditure •waX &lOUS , capable. of - being curtailed. The charges i for -the collection of the Customs in 1320, as compared with - the year '1783, shewed an increase in the ratio of 71.. per cent. They must not allow themselves to slumber, or nothing mould be done in the way of lessening the public burthens. -The! Hon. Member then -stated the case of some individualis. who ! - -were in the receipt 'of - salaries for two situations connected --' 0 ••• •ba C;ustcinis, the duties of which they could not perform.. , who, althougn a tio.A.a..a v at. they would find a Mr.Trewin; • sassed of - another situation, frOin both of worunvhalio pos • large salaries. 'Another 'Gentleman, a Mr. Dean, had -held Ihr • : many years a situation which gave him 10001. per annum. If —he did-any thing trirn'aiit'imch an: income, he shoUld think he - could Kive not much of his time to the performance of his duty as : Cotninisaioner or the customs.. The Commissioners of Custonis !--• were,-in his opinion, unnecessary. Their number might'-be re duced from nine to six without 'throwing any impediment in 'the way of the public business. But the.. same principle was acted upon there as every where else. Poor wretches re.- . ce:;44- about half-a-crown a day,- and tide-waiters, might be re- ' • al'ece;.i a but the higher officers were never touched, and it had not been recommended - that the number of Commissioners • 1 .,0u1d be diminished.. He then re a d a m i nute f rom t h e L or d s C the Treasury to the Com m i ss i oners o f Customs, in .which • - - t Leir Lordships decl are d th at t h ey wou ld cons id er i t hi ghly im per in the' Board to appoint any one to a - s it ua ti on in t h e i x, = Castorns, without first ascertaining that. he • was in all respects .well qbalified.: Nothing could be better than this re_gulatiott ;, .the precept was admirable. But how had their Lordships actod4n it. They had taken seven out of nine Commissioners appointed from other departments; and plaCed them in their present situations, though .they knew nothing at all of the Cuttoms, The last-:appointment was that- of an Honour_ a!,l trdieer, • who formerly had a seat in that House.. ' But .hc,- as •an ' Army Officer could 'not be sup posed to have had- much insight i n t o . the business of the. Customs. .Ife -noticed the unnecessary .expenses; incurred on account: of -the Comthissioners, and prdeeeded to .anew that the.superan .nuation list had been -so rapidly increased, that from 1810 the annual charge on i t h a d r i se n f r O m. 10 , 0001. to 8 6 ,0001. It -had been declared that. auperannuation.should only be.allow ed in conaideration of 'length of service, age,_ and, infirmity ; but he could not turn -persons bad been saperannuated; who had served but: fifteen, 442, - tire ' years, -and some even' who had only ser ve d th ree years. All who had completed twenty years of service were ,npmethately placed on thelist ; and it. was remarkable,that all those 'Gentlemen immediately that they had served twenty years, became so infirm that they must.be immediately super-. aunuated: In defiance of the regulations which had- been framed,'2,7oo appointments had taken place since the year lillfi. - He complained of the Manner in which certain. patent offices, recommended to be inunediately abolished in 1784„ by: . the Commissioners of 'Public Accounts, had been kept up. till ;1131 . 1, and :theticinferred the necessity which existed for Par.. Aliment keeping its eye 'constantly on what. was.paasing in: that department. In -the Solicitor's department, .the law charges. 31,:`1'03-4 , •'. • ' - ." - • Fo 1t313 roi , 4320 ^ ••• .4 3 3.800 - 29,400 43 .,'e 17 149tteductiori of"' . - . - X 9,400 Whiellf• -- Tednetion was stated to have been ~eFeeteel conse., tintoce of the recommendation of the ,Comunssionere This: again proved the necessity of keeping a watchful eye -an all that was passing. .He noticed the expenses 'connected- -with' the:erection of the Custom, House, and maintained that blr.' Laing,the Surveyor, had been paid twice•as nineties Ife•had-ra: right . to teceive; and that 7,8101. ought to hive been dediCted "Ercipa,..theetum paid for his .30-vices. • The expenie of• the - Ctiast lifeeknAe '.4ed the preventive , •-service considere& , t.b •be "Jeasly fiiinnered. Strthp,gling continued to great extent,' lend' "he .svould shew how it could be' seetirely , :carried" On Witle'id- - ` 1 -vanfage v in spite of all the:measures • which 'had -been ailOted. ; Supposing,•te cam) of 500 :casks of foreign spirits to be got to gether, which would cost about 2501. on the other aide of the water, thesplygglet had onlyto give inforination againit hitinfiff, that the cargo would re a ch :a certa in p o i nt at suc h a tirne..- The reward fotj.llo-teizure of foreign•spirits was 11. 3s. the . gallon - ; -In tht4oo casks-there might be -200 gallons,. • Half the Cargo was conderimed • to the King; the' remainder,` which, in the case 1 ~- supposed, wePid seneunt to ~eon - was to be'shared between the eiffiEer and the informer—two-thirds going to the furrier;and one-thirst; to the latter. ' This would give' the lath-Mir ;igainet hittee'lf 4001. for w.hathad cost him but 25t1., and thin he might gain in this way 1501., without running any riske present greateniunbers :were: engag e d in smuggling. ,. - •ItfOr neaticos neulttpl . leel,, and the 'demo ra lis a ti on growing on the habitual violations of the , law were slaicking to "contemplate: A Magistrate at Brighton had told hilt that a man had Laid an infOrniation•agaiost anotheran oitth,'' The next day Ire'denied that lie pact clone SQ.. mnd erideavoared-to ',persuade the 'Magi : : strate - against, the evidenez of his '-intnees4 that lie was tide:the man.• ror e this this ; hr. waS committed;: and being Subse queritly intereogated as to his'inotives for•acthig such a part; his reply was would if had he not don e so ould have been in danger,. Nuelv.was the effect of the system now acted upon: Were the duty spirits reduced, from ! , 193. 3 -to 12s. the temptation would' be in ' a great degree remotted, and the FA venue, far frorn - beinkinjuretleWonjd be benefited ley enc Change. His atiovs On . this subreCi were horne out by it, .sviious ment which lie This was a return ortheAtien eity of foreign spirits on *Aid' ditty was paid in MI6. , The siumbez.of theh iniPiitted• was 2;ool,ooo, * and.the dutY I• paid at the rate of 151. per gallon, amounted to 1,359,0001. The next year the duty was raised to nineteen shillings. It did not come into full operation tilltW, when the quantity imported was 199,000 gallons, Orle-terthe former amount ; anjl the, duty, which . Va-18104troou . - toil t oXool- was.feduced to 477,00012 fie co. ", - 'thel6ang iif Ille•iati chargcs, _aid of ' 'The.delay . i . . : ' 'aretdri tOints motiOn,of' the Bth Feb.' A,` laige hook ..: 1 telyjbeelvflaid on the table, but td this,wat: tto answer.-ingtis inotion, 6542 contained Initthe guar terly returrit,, The aellitiltbf billget s *Ont% seerned;linwilling to give 114 account-or hilli3noluit4 ;:l lie cared not,which sum migyr be4fie true one :,but if that amount was but tb,oool. he was prepared to contend that this was too much, and to insist that this Was not.the way in whickthat officer shciuld, be paid. lit diet' tibtictd- the heavy expellees attending ';Eicrige, prosecutiohsr : pointeil out various reduc- Alois* which ought to be tarried into:effeet, and 'concluded by ,moving R - esolution A, declaring thaf.the .sum of 4,102,1451.'175• id. had been applied 'to' the service of the ':year ending •Jarmary.ti, 1822 to' defray- the :expellees of managing 'anti , colleeting 62;882 , 15Q the gross oidinark revenue :of the United . Kingilom,..afivrate of Ca. 10s. per cent. The Cesollition:s then set forth the: smaller pmeenti!ge formerly paid on the collection w the revenue; and deslared it to be desirable, in Order to en. .abk. Parliament to controtil this branch of the expenditUre, to lay before the House an , a nnual estimate of the expence to be di:lean...Al in the managethent and collection of the revenue. ' 31r. LUSIIINGTON would not accuse the Hon. Officer of any improper motives, but he thought he should prove, before ,he sat down,.that he had grossly deceived himself .'• In his very Aist.itecdtherewas a mistake of 3,000,0001., and , in the next there was an error of more than 5,000,0801. ;: and the House would therefore see that it could come to no conclusion on cal enlations so erroneous and fallacious. The error into which :the 'Kon. pflicer had fallep grew on nix having compared the ' , le-rmaner4 . .Alidie, , ! of 181 A dvith the temporary and permanent ditties ef1820: ... . y . ,". , I'. , „I% his:Arit herd . , • - • •- , :ii . ..ts .:::- The 11 On.' Officer ought.to , add: i, ; - . -,.. Which gave a tatal:of 10,02'M00 3;282;000' 13,283,000 And to his next iteni, on the Excise Should be added . - ; 4 Which gave a itetallof • • 'y 24,711,000 Where details were so erronetrai; - thellouse would fieee'bieW den ' fierou'e it evkiuldbe to adoptthe'propoeithins founded on them. Thp flononrabie. Gentlemen vontentled that thereieee a great increase in, the rate of per centage. .paid on 7-the collections and :ee - linageinent of the revenue. • This "he denia ;Instead of, a excess, there was:hut a very, small one, ..nOt ainouriting to, .more than tbe.tweifthe part of a pound; The rate - per cent: on the eolleetion in 1812. wee 51..95. fld. In 1820 it had increased •tei M. 1 Is e . 4d. This, it would be found came exactly to the pro position which he had. stated. The increase which was reinark ed would be explained from the circumstances of the two periods. 1n.1822, we were at war, and the revenue was in some mea sure.protectedby.thatcircurnstance. Since the return of peace, a laige and. expensiye. eetabliehment had been fourid neces sary to._save the revenue froM being injured by smuggling, and he hail only to . express his surprise and 'satisfaction at the measures which had been adopted having proeid so ef fectual. to keep ep.the reyeenie. .This could only be imputed to the prevaileng spirit of vigilance-and integrity which pervaded all who were employed in the preventive service. He begged to assure; the Hoe., Gentlemaitthat every exertion had been made. to prodrice thepapere fee which he had. moved at the several depertments, and explained the circumstances which had made it impossible to comply :with the call as yet, and which would prevent it from being answered for some weeks to come. It Wei' because the papers called for from the Customs were so voluminous, and that reference, must, be made to every out-pert in the kingdotn e that they could not yet be given. The parties, engaged at the several offices wanted not the reproach which the Honourable Officer was disposed to bestow; and he intreated him when he Moved for - papers so voluminous to make allow- . ances for . the labour Which limit , be performed before they could be given. The Hon. Officer had understood the fees of the Solicitor to the Excise to amount to 40,0001. per annum, to'80;0001.,' or to 20,0001. The account he held in his hand shewed their amount in one year, to be 9,0001., and. this sum was to be divided between two individuals, who had thus in comes of 4,5001. each. Now when he considered that it was the duty of the' Officer who had been mentioned to watch . over a revenue of 29;000,0001. he could not think the sum he re ceived more than he had 'a right to expect as a remuneration for the important•duties which he had to perforM. The ex , pence of the Preventive Force, including every thing, was 520,0001. but taking Ireland into the calculetion, it might, come . up to the sum named by the Hon. Gentleman. The ques tion was not what was the amount, but whether the amount was necessary ? He would contend, that there was .nothineeoon .. ee l • „ nothing but evbae evarielellYen - Otegary, efeeect t7;e. the revenueOf the country. The resolutions Were errodeVirs e rNuous; ands full of errors, and there was also 41 mistake to the amount of eight millions and a half.—(No, ! from Mr. Httine.)He did not feel shaken by the' No, no" of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen. There was an omission in the first item £3;262,000 In the second of' e - - e - '5,235,000 Making a total of - - - . 48,497,000 The Hon. Officer having been thus mistaken ' it was impossi ble for the Howe to adopt his ReselutiO ns . lie referred to a large volume on the table, and remarked, that nine such were produced in a year .in which. - the Honourable Officer might find the most Minute accounts of the salaries and emoluments of the officers employed in the revenue. For the estimates called for, he could not conceive . how estimates of ex pences which must depend on the ..commerce of the country and other matters that were contingent and uncertain could be made up immediately. Mitny of the accounts which Gen tlemen,moved for might be found in Returns which were an nually made. It would be well if Gentlemen before they mov ed for so many papers to suit thei r own views-(he did not mean improper views), would- - use' a little application to see if they could not find what they' wantedin what had already been produced. Were this done, a great eipence. would be saved to the country, arid no inconvenience would be sustained. Some remarks had been made on a Commissioner lately appointed. He would say the . Excise Btiard hadhot gained a more valua- . ble addition for many years than it had received in the person of the Hon. Officer who had been alluded tie; and he could not but think ha .little.hard that his .for Mer honourable life should be urged as making against `his fitnee& for the situation which he now filled with dietiegirished-ability, and great advantage to the public. He concluded by the previous question. Mr. HUME competed ilieTptatements :which his , Gall a nt Friend had made Withehe.: Reteans ; • -and contended- that the Hon. Officer had been correct. : e • -• Mr. LUSHINGTON : peinted.Out where. the error had oc curred. - • Mr. HUME went on teecom . pare the. per contage paid on collections with whit this Elie al. :Friend ,had stated, still main taining that he hml beencorrect, • -• '7 • Mr. LUSH Dra.V4. leinsAedi :there was a nota bene to explain the manner in which. ) the.calculation had been made on both the permanent and temporary revenues. • - Mr. HUME then went through a series of statements, to shew that his Gallant FricAd had quoted. froß.,•tht:iiettkrns correCtly: the 'Hon . ."SicietivythouglWthat he 01e. ,Htunite was. wrong; lie-Sibuldteeiteit 7 the clerk 41:read *M e . Mr. LUSH INGTON again mentioned the note which ex plained what he had before rmaentined. The Book we:4 was called on by Col. Davies teemed .fisearottri. :WC it appeared the' hete s , whic,h had,boen mentionediwas net irg. that beide.-4A litigh,),., . Mr. HUMS' ferearked they' had .I;Cele. ;referred. ell . ; Afor4. Secretary to a note, where no ndidiviti e te*rounele.., eee' Mr. .14.1811IN . GTQN Piqui ;anoth or boekort:ttee table the note-as - the,lo‘ which had been adopted. , . . Mr. fIUME said his Gallant .riend had quoted correctly, arid the illmotttable.Seeritafjllihest oven that 'he (Me. Liishe Mgeoni had r) eleia *game msdea, little p.• He did not eon; ceive tiat, tie 9bjection. made. to . his Honourable Friend's inotiOn 'was valid:. If it - wee, was eqaally so against all estimates tbaeeei'tirelaid•fieforethe 1-1 - seuse Tlie :Honourable Member ,then..,.con,ten,ded,,,thjt estinaii:es of the expenditure: • tot the :collection of the revenue ought to have, been .at all. times submitted to the House in detail. He then contrasted the 'expenses of-- the tolleetion;Ofabee,Ctistoins Scotland;' in' the . years 1805 and 1821, dial niacle,it appear • that there:was crease of 400;000l. ' He allio alluded. toile. increased salaries now. allowed la . 41r - hills Offiees, over these 01'1792.. The Coin; missiorters the ;Ward of. Taxes, who- at that period were Paid 'it the rate 0f..6001. ausl'4o.Ol..a-year .now reeeiyed 1;6001. and 1;0001.:•• He' would LSI the Chancelfor Of :.the Excheq uer .11019 o: lie 'ineantAliaC - -the reduction of TO 'per - Cent. • shoUld bring these, increased allo.v.ames flown: to it& standard bf MP Ile took the proposition to be a mere mockery. The sameyate 91 advances had taken jilace in the salaries of the Ceminis sioners and gffi eerie ne the Custeliis,! in 'the &idle, the . Tax, 'SW - 4e and Other .(flees:.Ha theuglit the.countenancing these things, to' be ileWneighf extravagance and although e the Ilonourable ;night - find= faint 'With' the harshness of his language, .he:coubi •ouly edit itiatra:vagance, - for no other -ward would express his meaning... , He. - tho.ught the - eXpenditure if :for the Customs was top 'would great,eanoiight, to he reduced. H e was sute the; country'Ml' be satisfied with what the Chancellor of e thee.Exchequer had • dime.' 'Me Conceived it to be but ,a ?Wry ,scale of reductions- compeeedewilh what the country demanded'. It was stated that the charge of collecting the Revenue was to be 600,-0001: :IM,:there'eai - a . sum of 80;0001, for the revenue service under the chierge of victualling, put into the Navy 'Estinatese He alsocondeeeped the appotuttnents-t0 19,476,000 5,235,000 the Revenue Service, and complained of the allowances made. At the same timele was ready. to admit that-the service. was arduoui and haiirdons. - With regard to Su_perannuations, how could the House :consent to admit the principle when they saw the extent to which it had been carried? He held in his hand a volume consistingof Above• thirty pages of Super annuations. The lion. Member then read over some of the Superannuationgranted to individual'swhe held situations in the Colonies. He alluded to an Officer, at Lucia, named John Bridgemin; who had received an allowance of 5001. after six years service, at ; the rate of . 20001. year. He. conceived this. to be quite an abuse, and he thought the House ought to pit down the . systeM. 'He :adverted td the cases of the Collectors at Barbadoes, Nassau, and Sandy Point, all of,whorn.he consulered:to have been allowed too much for their services. There was a Mr. Sampson, who, after 15 years re ceiving a salary Of 5001.; retired upon an allowance . of 3501. He could not see why he- was entitled.to any such proportion. In short; the system of Superannuation was like the system of Increased salaries, and. ought not to be sanctioned by the House. In "What he had said he had only done his Gallant Friend justice by supporting, as far as he could, the Resolutions which he had submitted to the House. Mr. LUSHINGTON said, that it would be an unworthy act in him to endeavour to mislead the House for the sake of any trium '' over the calculations 'of the Hon. Officer. He would the. re explain the contradictions he h a d given and the more particularly as the Hon. Officer was now. backed by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen. He then entered into the calcUlations cif The Hon. Member (Colonel Davies), and observ ed, that he had compared. the - experw_s of collection upon the ordinary revenue of the Customs alone, which would not give the per- tentage of 71. 17s. 7d. , If he added the 3,000,0001. for the Extraordinary_ he would then find it came out right. He had made the same mistakes in the other Calculatioh, and:the fact was as he (Mr. Lushiogton) . fie& stated, that the gross-ex rence of Collectirig the revenue in 1812 was 51. 9s. Bd., and - in A B2 °, 5 1 1 . 1 1 P, !i: . Sir I: COFFIN said, _that R., the Hon. Member for. Aber. deen to . a: 'Mallon of his 'the Collector at Sandy Point, he wished to let, the House,-incivr how the case stood, by detailing the circumstances Under which his superannuation had been granted, After a residence at St. Jilitt's of twenty_ two years, at - the age of sixty - fie returned to this country nearly blind aid quite .unable; to perform .the- duties of hip office. He (Sir Isaac Coffin) took him down to the Treasury -himself, and: said le - was' air unfortiiiiate Gentleman, nearly blind, who held a situation of 2,5001. a year, and ; was ready to give it up 'and let the'' Government allow him what they . pleased. The Treasury were kind enough to grant him a super 'animation of 5001. ; and he hoped that the Hon. :Member would serve his 'c'ountry'long enough and faithfully enough.to deserve such a remuneration as well. At the time when these_ Wm plaints were being made the Gentleman might be dead, for be had'to be couched for ,this dreadful disease, which prevented his seeing ten yardsitefare him. The Hon. Member came down there with his charges and his statements, and he (Sir I. C.) sat listening to him clay after day, and night after night ; and after all he 'declared to God he conceived him to be nothing ,more than a forestaller... - -(A laugh.) Sir C. LON 4 said that the Hon. Member for Aberdeen com plained that the reduction of Conitnissidners of Customs had not been recommended. They did not recommend it, bee-aus , they were convinced that those offices could not. be reduced without injury to the public. Eniployed as they were at pre sent, they would .be very useful and necessary to the public. With regard to,the appointment which had hem , atiuded to by the Hon: Officer, he could say thai there was not likely to be a more faithful and beneficial public servant. Mr. Hewitt was also a most va4nible person in riblic affairs of a particu lar nature. He h.ad been employed by the Right Hon. Chan cellor of the l'4cchequer in drawing Biils for the Consolidated Fund ; a service which nciOther person could perforrh so Well. When the Hon.- Member for Aberdeen mentioned the increase upon the collection of the revenue of 400,0001. he left out of view the abolition of fees which had since taken place, and • also that there *ere two or three millions more of revenue to be collected. When, therefore, the-Hon. Member Stated the round numbers, without mentioning these circumstances, he was deceiving the _House into false conclusions. The 'Hon. Baronet then defended the appointments to the Preventive SerVite, and chewed' that the 80,0001. for the victualling of that -department, which ap peared in the Navy Estimates, were included in the general estimate of 600,0001. With respect to the motion, he considered that it 'could be productive 7of no good whatever. He consi dered the statements of the other side to have been completely refuted. Colonel DAVIES re - plied.' He admitted he ought to have mentioned that he took the per tentage upon the ordinary re venue. He had, however, no objection to : give up the second and third resolutions, because it was the principle that he con tended for. 1 - The House then divided.. For the previous - Against,d' -- gaint the resolutions - When the Gallery was opened, - , Mr. MT. COURTENAY was, addressing the House for leave to bring in a Bill, to alter and amend the Stage Coach Horse Act. —Leave given. MUTINY BILL. ' Upon the Order of the Day being read for the House going intO a Committee upon the Mutiny Bill being read, Mt% P. BENNETT rose to entreat . his Hon. Frlend, the Member for Aberdeen (Mr. Hume), who bad given notice of a ,motion in the Committee, not to .enter into the subject at that hour, and with such an attendance of the House. He did think that the subject ought to hare created more interest among those who actually combated abuse. But it appear ed that it was ' mone y matters a l one upon which those Gen. tlemth were sore, and that the Constitittion might be .in fringed upon withont,exciting attention. He was speaking of his side of the House, and he must say, that there seemed to be a feeling of contempt for the subject of the motion, of which due notice had heen'giverr. He trusted' his honourable Friend would, however, ppstponeitfor the I resent, and bring it forward in the shape of a suhstantire-m o tion . ,- when he could command the day anti hour of discussi ng it. :By bringing it on before dinner, he could, perhaps, procure the attention of gentlemen who:seented to leave the subject to 'its fate after dinner. Mr.'BRIGHT looked at the matter of the Hon. Member's complaint with deep regret, because lie thought the,sobject to be one of the first interest. Helhooght nothing had been so wholesome to the Constitution, its other ages; as t hat prac lice of examining inthits principles; now tecominended by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, He had always been brought 'up in dread Of standing armies, and the longer he lived, the m o r e he was convi nce d ortiteir evil effect upon the Constitution.-- He thought that when the prerogative e.arne in discussion, it MS somewhat assumed by : Hus. Members opposite. When it came Wore the Muse upona regular uestion. he gshould declare in his place hi s o pi n i on th at the Crpwn did, not ,pos sess theyrerogative of dismissing art officer wit limit' trial." He looked at the Army with suspicion, 1190! the Navy with ad ritirationand he tholighi the. Militia, the citnstitntioyal . forcc of the kingdom, wal fully - adequate for all the p urposes. for which t i lre standing army was required. He trust ed - the Hon. Member for Aberdeen would bring on his motion either 'on that evening or on Sort4C future occasion. . , . . • Mr.- HOBHOUSE thouklit the evening was .top.far ad vanced to admit a disbitision'esii - great*Constitiitional cities , tion, and he therefore:trusted:lite Hon. Frien &Would. make a specific 'motion on the subject. certainly thought the Mutiny Aet;Vid ilot e -e ' the Crown the power in question.. Mr. HUME said, thatt . a.Uh - ntifili hez' hniPlinnivir a question of 'as, great importance as the . present: ,ritet by. as. eMpty benclies as the pregent, .-tes . 44,pot peAsioagainit the!ad eicerot his Friends, but would bang the subj,v,ct forward on, the Rowing: up4fithe xr.toai.• ' - the SPM,KER then lefaxite::-Chairi mrur the House being in a Committee, • , •Mr; HUME'wislied to know whether any alteration was intended : as to those part's-of the Bill Which were' now obto lete ? If not, he should .propose smne ame.ndiueets.. ' • Lord PALMER ST O N said, ,t he only alteration he proposed was one respecting the parish settletherit of soldiers. He pro posed a clause, empowering . Magistrates to summon soldiers to make depositions as to their rights of sett letnent. Sir ISAAC COFFIN inquired whether_ any alteration, was Wended as. to the mode of promulgating the sentence's of Courts Martial. - . • . . Lord'PALMERSTON said no alteration ~ 63 intended. The subject had; however; been Tully considered. Mr. BRIGHT thought the Articles of War, and all the Re gulations of the Army, should be emlxlied,irt the Mutiny Act. fie 'certainty shn'uld, in the course,of neat Session, move that 'they - be laid before-the House for that purpose. ' • Lord PALMERSTON .said the Articles of War- were re neWed every year. After the passing the present- Bill, ! r -there would' 'be . 'no objectiOn to their being laid before the Hone. .-.• ;" ! • • - • After a few. words from Mr. WETHERELL, . • Mr. BRIGHT explained. He did not think the precedent •alliniutto by the Noble tord was Of any weight. - If it was a bail precedent it should be disregarded bj , the' House. Lord PALMERSTON sai d,-the right of the-Crown t o ma k e articles of war was l ong p r i or tti she passing of any Mutiny Act. Mr. BRIGHT thotight that'svas no reason against the House examining' those articles when' they were giving the 6'oo/11 a Mutiny Bill. The Chairman was abant to read the several clauses, when ' Lord vALmEasToN observed, that as there were 160 clauses in the Bill, it would be a saving of time if any claus e to which there was an objection were singled out at once. , • Mr. H.UNIE, refeiring to Clause 29 . respecting Courts Mar t.l.l, wished to add' some words, declaring that no punishment should be inflicted but what should he in ccnformity with a, Aent-Crke 'to Ite:passedlo pit - ism:nee of the Act, • • Lord ,PALM EUSTON declared, he could not see the object of the proposed addition. Be thought it was totally unne cessary. The substance of it was, that the Act should not be violated, • • • Mr. HUME. said, there . were certain punishments sanc tioned by the Articles of War, but not by the present Act. He conceived that the proposed additidn was perfectly rea sonable.' Mr. WETHERELL thought that if the object of the pro posed addition was to raise the question of the prerogative, it should be done in' a ' fair and open manner. For him Self he was clearly of . opinion, that the King could .declare certain acts to be military crimes,. which were not crimes at the time of the passing of the Mutiny . Act. Mr. BRIGHT and Sir I. COFFIN spoke a few words,which were perfectly inaudible. • Col. WOOD thought the proposed addition was a round about way of bringing on the-questiOn which the HonOurable Member had said he should decline Winging on to-night. He should be happy to meet the question upon constitutional . grounds. He considered thatthe.prerogative alluded t o w as 'the best Safety against the interference of the Army with the Constitution. - After a few words in explanation from Mr. Home, Mr. COUItTENAY said, WAS customary when any amendment was proposed, for the Mover of it to state the grounds Olson which he brought it forward. Utile intention of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen was to dispute the prero. gative, it would be'mote Manly Of hith to bril; it forward specifically. .1:14i (Mr. C.) wished to-know whether the Hon. Member intended the word "punishment" in this instance to refer to dismissal ? Mr. WILLIAMS admitted the prerogative ; but he thought the admission was no reason- for-the House not -.being vyry jealous of its exercise. If the sithieet shmild not be _taken up by some Hon. Member., 'moto competent than :himself, he_ should Move for leave to bring in a Bill to exclude Otlicers in the Army, front sitting in that }_tonne.--- , (A Members might laugh tint laughter would not deter ; him from performing what he . C6nceis'edsto be•his dirty. • Colonel WOOD said. he was, as jealous as the- Hon.-Mern4 her could-be-of a staneipygarmY,,: hitt it Would be recollected that an army becarneiddredatigelknii than ever by being ise lutrated from the-Cititiio 7 It-`rosy such an army which had en tered that House antifir riled itsrilMembett out of doors',- He 'trusted the Hon. Member, on consideration.-would not think it necessary to•propose a measure for excluding Officers of the ,army from the House. :There Was; he thought, no more dan-• ger to be apprehended from them than 'from' the Worthy Members of the naval and legal professions. Mr. WILLIAMS explained. There was no analogy for the pirposc i of the present aroment between the army and the law, for the Cfo4ll had not the-power of depriving a Barrister of his rank. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that when . the question of the prerogative should he fairly brought forward, he would meet it. But with rerpect.to the; proposed amendment, he thought he could satisfy the House. and even the Hon. Meni her for Aberdeen himself, that the aMendment could not be sustained. The King could - remit, but could not exceed, the punishment decreed by the sentence of a court-martial; -and the present arnendment, by confining all punishments to the very letter of the sentence,'would take away the power of re mission; and the King would therefore not have the power of even commuting the sentence of death to a smaller punish ment. Colonel DAVIES said there were many instances in which officers who had, been acquitted by courts martial had been afterwards dismissed. He instanced the case of the officers of the 85th, who having brought forward charges against their commanding officer, and failed to prove them, were diszni:sed and the commanding officer was himself dismissed afterwards, although the court-martial had acquitted him. Lord PALMERSTON said, the dismissal of the officers who had prosecuted groundless charges was no argument on the present question. Colonel DAVIES said, his argument was, that the com manding officer bad himself been dismissed, after haring been acquitted by the court martial. • Lord PALMERSTON said, it was then evident that the present Amendment raised the question of th'e prerogative. Mr. BUMF, disclaimed any wish to raise that question at present. The Amendment referred to the punishments ordered by minor Courts Martial. If, howe‘er, it was thought that:the terms of the Amendment touched the tender point, the prerogative, he was not willing .to press it. He had no wish to do things in a roundabout manner, Ile was for talf ing the bull by the horns.—(A laugh.)—He was not convinced by the argument of the Solicitor General, but he had no wish at present to agitate any point which would involve the ques tion of the prerogative. The Hon. and Gallant _Member (Col. Wood) Would remember that if an army, not under the controul of the Kipg,.had interfered with the MeMbers of that lieople, the same might LW t Yone by one who commanded the army. Its officers were perfectly , tlependant on the Crown, and, if he might use the phrase, were even the slaves of the Crown,,in consequence of this power of d ism i ssa l, Lord 'PALMERSTON said, the principle of the Mutiny Act allowed of dismissal even atter an acquittal by a Court Martial. Mr. W. SMIFFI disapproved of the introduction of so im portant a subject upon an incidental question. Sir MILES NIGHTINGALE, repelled the observation of the Hon. Member fur Abereeen, respecting the situation of Officers of the Army. They were not dependent upon the CrEdvn. He (Sir Miles Nightingale,) WaS as independent of I the Crown as the Hon. Member hi n. }self, or any man i n th e House. Mr. HUMS said, that, in his opinion, the Officers of the Army were dependent upon the Crown, for the reasons be had given. . . . Sir ISAAC COFFIN said, that when the Hon. Member for Weymouth (Mr. Williams) brou g ht i n his till to exclude Of ficers of the Army from the House, he (Sir I. Coffin) hoped it would include Officers of the... Navy, that they might all go out together.-fa laugh.)Colonel TRENCH said - he also felt hiniseif Called uprin to repel the insinuations - of the Hon. Member foie Aberdeen, and he threw them back to the foul source from whence they sprung. I-le was surprised that the Hon. Member had dared to throw out such-an aspersion on the Army. Sir F. BURDETT could not. but express his surprise at the extraordinary. tone of the Hon. and Gallant Officer, in an iwer to the observation - of his Hort. Friend the Member for Aberdeen. He begged to protest against the personal appeal to character and conduct which . had of late become so frequent in that House, and which he believed was cuotrary to its or der. He was sure his Hon. Friend'hfid no intention to offer offence to any individual, arid be (Sir F.) for one Would say that lie agreed is the proprietyof his Hon. Friend's language. The argument urged by that language was perfectly .consti tutional; and he would rather die in his seat. than . give up the right to offer that argument. • The opinion that Officers in A•he A rmy were dependant upon - the Crown, was to be found in,the writings ofiktlio best authors, ancient and modern, It w aithe opinion, among of he rs , o f Blackstone, who complained :of this Very Att of Parliament ; and who had said that soldiers werp.sla.ea.aniongfreeweir. Every .artfut means had been resorted to for the purpose of separating the soldiery from the people; a practice directly contrary to the law, as laid down .by the same learned commentator. Hume, the historian, was one of those who thought 3 standing. Army would be tire death of the.litkfties Of - EnglanlA Ereir children; who were edu cated by cli'arity,,were -no formed into artificial Mamellikes,. add regulated by'beat'of otriird:' 'lt 'Walidle, lie thought, to talk ciLth..e., Army bking_lendereil harmless,: •because it - Was' Under the commit of the. King.. Suppose we were to have a bad: ing; who Wasltet , PiOtekt fire-people against him with a -- standing army at his command ?. He .would. not trust the li berties of the country witti'an - y - King: He'pteferred relying on the feelings of the soldiers themselves, and therefore it iris t hat he Wished to guard them against the exercise of ar bitrary power :77 a power which might deprive a man . of the commission he had paid for; and that too without any trial, or even accusation. In the armies of the most despotic eoun- , tries no such a power existed. He was willing to give every credit to the Officers of the Army for their conduct, but their safety.did not depend upon their oivn , virtue. It depended upon that of a Minister, and it was that dependence which he was-desirous of seeing.removol.. _ _ Lord PALMERSTON said the speech of the Honourable Barone'. referred , almost entirely to the question preroga tive. With respect to the first part of that speech, noticing the observations ofhis Honourable and Gallant Friend (Col. Trench), he (Lord Palmerston] would . it to tbs House, whet bet,'nOt Withitanding the latitude of debate, it was not a little too much to expect that one. side: of the House should be allowed the habit of making observations of a personally offensive nature. The word 4 . Slave ; " as applied :by the Honourable Member, for _Aberdeen, was und o ubtedly, very ty offensive, though ro doubt it 'was not intended to he so by the Honourable Member. It conveyed the Most degrading idea which could possibly be imaglned. The Hon. Baronet had uoted from Blackstone, as he was often in.the habit. of d oi ng; but as be had qputed from only a page or two, it might have saved the time-of the House . had-the book been put into the bands of the Clerk with a desire for him to read it. He (Lord P.) admitted that &standing army was liable to objection, but lie thoUght it would- not be denied that greater danger was to be apprehended from the want of any army at all. The observation of the Hoa. Baronet respect ing . 4 artificial Mantelukes," referred, he supposed, to the children of the Military Asylum ;..,but. bad the Hon. Baronet given hiniself the trouble to inquire into the subject, he would have found that the children were' allowed 'to chotise their own professions, and that the majority of them turtityoheasen civil pursititse r t‘Hea? hear.!:)-=With re gard_.to the militaryy rules of„otber Govemeneests, he was not aware - exactly of those retpecting - the Mist - I . llth army; but in that of Prussia, be apprehended the King bad often exercised the power in question. Mr. BE•NNETT, adverting to-the speech of the Hon. and Gallant Member (Colonel Treneb,)'obserie'd,, that there was nothing in the remark,sof 'ilieWinber for Aberdeen, at which the tion..ptlicer cats.l4lllo.lf,y-feet.ktrend ecf. 'II; might as Well feet offerided':fit, the = qiintation made frOM Blackitone, by the Hon. Member -- fOr"lrestmlnster.— The expression had been use d by bis Horf:kiignd' in conse quence of Iris having just read the pastage',ln - ;olhekstone, which he had actually in • hit hand at the time be was speak . nig. - 'The remark had-not beenthade insratingiroftittinting ly. It was made to strew that — the Armitlhoored under a disadvantage which _might tO be - removed by 3 7 1rlianaent. Cer tainly the language of the Gitllint 015601* efitirely- new; for when !resat on bli - (51r.-Beisnett'sy.'sirl - of tire:plause-- (Cries' of Order.)--; • • .. '— The CHAIRMAN here rematked, th*Alrese petrpnal al lusions could not be permitted:'- •• - • Mr. BENNETT - said, the etriridanitililif, - with - equal pro priety, have called the Gallant Officer, to isider.when Ise was making the observations upon his Hon'itiiend: • ' lite CHAIRMAN - again interPosid,' Ord. said that the words - of any Hon'. Member which . were•iUrssiderell objec tionable must be,noticed at the time they were spoken. Mr. CREEVEY said, Ire had heard the HOD. and Gallant Officer snake rise of the weird "dared," a 'word', the use of which was always considered highly nnparliamentary.; Mr. W. SMITH was about to addres's the House, ehen The CHAIRMAN said, her-could not healloWed to speak unless he was about to speak to the point' of order. • Mr. BENNETT said that be was entitled to speak to the point of order. His objection was not to tire word" dared," but to-the - words." ford s o u r e r ," which lik'd been Used by the Hon. and Gallant Member, and whieh"lie (Mr. - Bennett) , truistedt he Him . . and Gallant Memb e r iroutd take - an -oppor tunity cf explaining. 'After a few words from gr. BENNETT andlhe CHAIRMAN on the'po . int of order, - • Ceiteidel TRENCH - Said, That the -- esipieSsirininsid"by the Ma. Member for Aberdeen had certainly:appeared:Us - him to be coarse..and: fouLmouthed. - -He (the‘Cnlsmel) , •liad an swer edit in a.moment of indignation, and-mete was not often in the habit of 'addressing tire House, he feared he bad inad vertently gone - beyond the rules of - debate.. He begged to apologize tothe:House for having done. - so, but he should nut carry his apology - any further.. . , , . . - The clause was then agreed to, as were the othetalansts, after a few words.from - Mr. HUME and Lord PALMERWTON. The House having resumed, the Report•avas ordered to be received to morrow.. , . MARINE MUTINY BILL. The House then went into a Committee on the Marine Mutiny Bill, which was read paragraph bi.paragraph, and the Report ordered to beleceived to-morrow. - The. Report on the Aliens anti Denizens . was - hronght op, and•the Amendthents having been reaci.and agreed to, it was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow MISUNDERSTANDING. Mr. G. BENNET rose to call-for an explanation of, certain words which had been used in the course of -the deb.atei and which might leave, on the Minds of the Honourable Memberf concerned, impressions of. anunpleasant•nature. His Hun. Friend (Mr. Hume) had, in the warmth of debate, used lan guage which called .up the Honourable Member _for Cam bridge; and 'tliongh the latter'Honeurable Gentleman:bad merely made-an apology to the House, without - reference to the personal feelings of his Honourable Friend, be (Mr. Bennet) was anxious to call the. attention alike: House to the necessity of some explanation. .. • • • The SPEAKER was quite persuaded that the - Hoiise would feel an obligatiOn to any Hon. Gentleinan who should call its attention to any breach of its Usage.. With regard to the pre sent matter, he regretted that it should not have been advert ed to till one: of the• Hon. Members had left;the House. He was sorry that the impression which had been .made by she explanation of the Hon. • Member for Cambridge had not been so satisfactory to every Ham Gentleman asi it had been to him. He had heard the words-as a Member of the House, and he felt that, without periphrasis, the explanation given by the Hon. Member for Cambridge did imply, that he : meant nothing personal to the Hon. Member . for Aberdeen. The Hon. Member bad explicitly declared his regret that he had pried language which might be considered'as - offeniive to. the House; and he (the Speaker) hoped, that the explanation was sufficient, Mr. HUME declared himself quite' satisfied with the ex planation. Had he not. been Satisfied; he would have said so while the klunourable Member was in his place; and had he known, lie woUldatave endeav,Oured_to ,prevent his Honour able Friend from mentioning the subject. The Report of the Resolutions on the Superannuation List was brought, tip, and aMU ordered to—be brqught in, in terms , thereof. ' --The Smugglers' commitment Bill was read a - seccmtlitne, a'nd ordered to be eminuitted to-morrow. The other. Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the Muse, at a Quarter before Twelve, adjourned till to-morrow (this day.) . LIST OF THE MINORITY WHO - VOTED THAT ESTIMATES OF THE PROBABLE CHARGES. OF COLLECTING AND MANAGING THE PVB LIC REVENUE BE ANNUALLY SUBMITTED TO PARLIA - MENT, AND A VOTE TAKEN THEREON:I— . Bernal; Ralph Hobhouse, J. C. Robarts, A. W. _ Barrett, S. B: M. Haldimand; Rickibrd, Burdett, Sir P. Hamilton, Lord. A. - Russell, Lord J. Benyon, B. Hume, J.' Rice, S. Blake, Sir F. . James, W. , Sykes; D. Crespigny, Sir W. Lennard, - T. B. Smith,Wm. Callaghan, Col. Maule,' Hon. W. Whitbread ' - S. Griffiths, J. W. Mo ore , Pet er Wood, A id. Graham, S. Robarts, Colonel lirilson, Sii- Et.n. Guise, Sir W. TELLERS—Iion.II. G. Bennet and Colonel Davies. ST. GILES'S IRISH FREE SCHOOLS.---Yesterday the Annual Meeting of .Ladies and Oentlemen, Friends and Benefactors of the above Schools - , and a public ,examination of the - Children - in structed therein, took place at the.. Freemasons? Tavern, Great Queen-street, Lincoln's-ifin.fields. His Grace the D u k e of BEDFORD, Vatron, was with acclamations called to the Chait.--The Noble CHAIRMAN, after stating the objects of the Charity, called the attention of the Meeting to the Report of the Committee, which would be read to them. —J. W. WARRIN, tsq: nneof the Committee, then read the Report, in - WhichAlle: operations and effects of the . Charity, from its fax, mation in 1813, were very fully exemplified. Since the formation of this establisbnient,' four others, precisely on the same principles aathis, had been instituted in the neighbotphoodpf St. Giles's, by which no less than 3,500 children had been 'admitted, instructed in reatibi„writ ing and arithmetic, and al so i n - te-liitionss prin ciples.—At the conclusion of last year's account a balance of 711. ss. 10d. was overdrawn, for which thelnstitution were' indebted to the Tree-. , surer. CONSPIRACY AGAINST LAW YERS;--- A Neiir. York paper says, " A society has been formed in Pitsfield (Mass.), the members of which are to refrain from going to law' with their brethren, and are required to settle all disputers between themselves, however important, by arbiters, se. lected from a Board created for that purpose, who' receive a compensation at the rate of 75 cents per day. It is called The 'iidams' Pa triotic and Economical Society,' and now consists of 200 of the most respectable citizens.!' • A man of the name of John Gale . was - yester day,examined at Bow -street on his oWn'coures. sion of murder. He had given himself into ens.• tody at the Isle of Wight, at which time he stated that he had caused the death of Miry Beagle, in the year 1815, by knocking her into the Regent's Canal, and that since that period he had never been able to rest. When asked by Sir R. BIRNIE what caused him to make the confession,-he replied, "It was all right." `• Ile was remanded for further examination._ ans