The Sun. — London, England, 1853-05-03 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.) INDIA. lard WHARNCLIFFE, pursuant to notice, pre- Sheffield a petition from the corporati . on of cutlers at uemeld on the subject of the internal improvement and Public works in India. The p e titi on ers were one of the mo st ancient corporat i ons in this country, and of all . coa atries in th e wor ld to wh i ch the cut l ery o f England Was ex Perted In dia It was ; ta ef . e ,. was the largest consumer ore, natural th a t the cutlers of Sheme affecting India ; 4 he believed that the prayer of the petition which h . e t 7 to present was in accordance with public opinion in 18 country, The petitioners first pointed out that W as the imperative duty of the Government of India t') promote the cultivation of the soil ; and they sug gested that there should be a more permanent fixing o t i o the land tax. There had been a controversy as a _ the extent to whi c h thi s t ax p re ssed upon the acOple and ob s t ructed the i r progress. Th e next t in ea t uu to Which th e pe titi oners d irecte d a tt en tion was th e ancial proceedings of the Government. One of great difficulties of the Indian Government was, z aat they had to provide some millions of money ; and, ,:u an e!?g other methods, they adopted the course of ds ad o a a n fl g money by hypothecation upon the goods When his noble friend (the Earl of le to ° 4 °ll s g te llf ) was at the head of the government of India he di s Ps to put an end to that practice, and sent . a Patch to recommending that it should be dig- Z il a ti l li ed• An order was issued in 1850 which entirely a/ 0 :8 " ed the practice, and it was to o be hoped that it 111 (1 not be revived under any circumstances. It was 0 -1 ' 14 4 adopted w h en t h e company was s till a trading filarPo r ation. Since the last act passed, the trade of India ta,,inereased 240 per cent., and it was now to be hoped the °"raaany could fid means, through the ordi it.arY channels, of remitting their money without reslortes ifkl6a'U so o bjectionable a practice as placing themse v 0 7'e position of traders. The next point to which the aF ti "ers alhided was the most important—it was that tolinlternal i mprovement. A good deal had been said on t mi: Company of the question. The Government and the East aad '''' ) uiPany said that a great deal had been done the m ore was i n th e course of ach i evement ; w hil s t on tia oth er hand severe cr i t i c i sm sa id i t was a scan d a l both lad-the I ndian government and the country that so little 8 a aat een eff ec t e d . (Hear.) Ne i ther of these state ea;• ' believed, conve y e d th e corr ect view, of the be e ; within the la s t t en y ears there had, no doubt, tat 18 i . : greater desire to promote internal improvements, don all h a d not been done that ought to have b een great e The lower province of Bengal consisted of a afreaansalluam- 1 tract through which . two enormous att a i nta °f the continent found their way, and it 3,00" Il led about 40,000,000 of souls. There were Wa e miles o f embankment on t h e r i vers , but it a. c , 111 a most dil a pid a t e d state. Some years ago lto ra t missi on was issued for the purpose o f examining o h he e mbankments and informing the Government l 'Ab l e t far it was possible to repair and renew them. snalr: Cors sion was composed of a fourth-rate English a4 a ee , r, a captain in the Indian service, and a !r a ja' gentleman, and their sole report was that they tba t he work: in an efficient state, and they a a ught the best thing to be done was to leave them "in ba t t t , E s ) nature.'.' (A. laugh.) There were some canals, madueY were so choked as to be almost useless ; and eas to the roads, there was the grand trunk road, of t h a a bont. 20 years ago, from Calcutta up the Valley try .. ! Ganges, 1,450 miles into the interior of the coun ttie rt ln e expenditure, which had been authorised by lao6a'„rnteent, upon this road, amounted to about . %ti e " I D& - It was the great military line of commum ha la aadth but there w ere severa l w id e an d deep streams to ere werean bres. Two brides, • l a a ears a s )0 Mlles of Calcutta , y y , had been idg washed away so g me pl ace a o' o , and not a single effort had been made to re iem. In the evidence before the committee of la e a, a acelse of Commons in 1841, upon the roads in et i a t - a i n i c was stated, by a gentleman of gr d eat i ex , pe t r h i e - Ntlej knowledge, that on . one occasion 10011 during the a cia war, it was thought desirable to send ffi seaa`a Calcutta to the scene of operations, to which the t trunk road was a direct line. The officers It t o travel i n palanquins, and it was necessary • f r e relays of 7,200 b earers , w h o t rave ll e d at the rate ba,,,O,ed l ir miles an hour ; but notwithstanding all the advantages of the trunk road, only 30 of the at o ; Cars arrived at their destination in time. In the calc i a lle e of Delhi there were two great irrigating canals, tax a ' aa athe East Jumna and the West Jumna. These tar uad been taken in hand by the Government, and . a l a tllllB had been expended on them. The canals in °lll- 17 1°11 h the Ganges extended, in length over 11111 f arundra v d it miles. There was no doubt but that works (l a i n - l s kind were of the greatest -value. It had been lad r- - a -m ' and not without force, that the Government of lads" Could not engage in great works, while they b il l to bear th e expenses i nc id en t to heavy wars ; st t A,le (Lord Wh arnc liff e ) was con vinced, from the q O -1401 ) , he h a d g i ven to the matter, t h a t th e I n dian a; r erninent had mistaken their interest in not having since steadily, perseveringly, and in spite of all public • s i p e a l e u u s y t leidividotewdrrihthethe necessary sums for works of ditiffiraceulhtadrabiseeentheinndeeceed, when the COut hat ssary sums ; tc,eldwhaes done,now naoodlonthgeart thethe case. That these things people of India were not k _ating in enterprise th e following fact would show. i:r:iglish engineer had succeeded i n b u ildi ng a sus taara'n bridge over one of the rivers, from resources en with Government. He had got the theaLand the necessary people together for executing matt er 3 and, b y di nt of perseverance, had carried the The to a successful issue. tb a4 a ef, ELLENBOROUGH hoped the bridge of a'tePte , e l 4o ole - earl had spoken would never be at ha• ve to (I CP 3 aLise if they built it upon piers, it would Y had live l ive- miles long instead of three. Besides, as carne to to dig thirty 'feet through sand before () they fee lic e solid foundation, and as the wate o r f w ee a t s h 3 igh, so t than, t he piers would have to be about million enonaV v as out of the question that a to ill s io u n pp w o o se uld th b a e t ra.aaa for the work. It was futile to A llahabad ; for tho aa lYs could be carried across rivers were Besides, the a oll l B ,a th e engineers had subdued. the land the waters • " subdu e the engineers. _ a?shifting a character. from the streams they were Why he had seen bridges in ita -4 three.quarters of a mile a l eli ded to s p a n. (Laughter.) He was once attempt ifig,,to am . by a bridge and found that it suddenly ended (Laughter.) The rivers Ive ‘ae middle of the water.peculiarly fine sand that a wattle a tl l :e so filled with divert them from their would be sufficient a d to course.o4 The Mahome ans had built bridges, and fine the they were too ; but then they were a long way'off , Th e livers. (A laugh.) t t h e Indian Eari ndia n o fA e s EIVIARLE admitted that he was one L si ß mists ; but he was glad to see the s h u a la i - I t t of roads and bridges at last taken up. Seneca h a :d that a Roman never conquered . but he inhabited, and a w never inhabited without making roads to the very t 4 of his p • ce. He (the noble earl) doubted the icabilit r o o f v s m etting aside . 10 per cent. for improve nts in India. Twenty millions was the revenue . of the Ten per cent. upon that would be two milriOns. -4 a 7 this out of a revenue the normal state of which was b a ',eit, and which never deviated into a surplus. The et the of thepublic works in India was an item '5 l; "ue grievances which the natives of India laid to the aa ar ge of their rulers. He held in his hand statistical . Tera relating to India, printed for the Court of Direc saaahich sh owe d t h e amoun t o f the expenditure on 4blic works in India. The amount in 1849-50 was Tb h , Cl ' °° °/. There was a little attempt at mystification a e e• Th e return was for 15 years, but the estimate igcl was ex ac tl y double the expenditure for 184 9 . atfle table baron who presented the petition had called r attenti on t o t h e trunk roa d f rom C a l cu tt a t o Delhi, 4t-; fr ,ont thence to P e sha w ur. Of this road only th e 'lles of the 1,423 had been completed, and as far as statement showed the remainder had not been begun. I ts e l l e t he road front Bombay to Agra was begun in 1840. eot was 734 miles, but whether it was finished or 13 0 ,0 4 not s t a t e d . H ere t h en was t h e C a l cu tt a and 16 8 ay mail road, which was 1,170 miles, but of this ata at 'ad- been previously constructed. In 1845 the ,dircted that 1,002 miles of road should be con ava,itd for the transmission of the mails. A summary taa a rerr of all these roads. They were to be 3,059 To ad 4 ,1 length, and to cost 2,964,0001. for construction, b ut, a - rk a-year for repairs. AM this was to be done, Ilftia - 3 - 7" all, what did it amcant to One-seventh part 41r ulaike roads in England and Wales for a coun for a. e•v ela times as big. He should on a future day move . !raal s retlu ill of the number of miles of road fit for the I .L I th P : rt of goods by coach, and used for that purpose, -mfr of Madras, and a similar return for The • zo subject then dropped. 13111 S EA ANNUITIES COMMUTATION th BILL. Motion for e going a into committee on th is bill, "aiNVILLE understood to say that he aral v a il eci s everal noble lords wished to speak on this bill, r eaaa ria. s uggested th at t h ey s h ou ld d o so on the third After 'L ora a f ew words from Lord MONTEAGLE, 114 ‘p ST. LEONAR DS (who, as usual, spoke in so ,errtalle of v o i ce as to be all but inaudible in the _g.al suitaaw, ; a ' s understood t o object to the bill as excluding naita es 41 Chan cery, whose funds were in South Sea An alaacie_es or Consols, from the advantages which other alte~atholdera - vaould have in taking either of three red licat t a v fered, via., to take an interest of 31 with a Capital; an interest of 21 per cent., with an .t .„ to the capital; or Exchequer Bonds. He would Ile aroain,e progress of the bill with great jealousy ; and aa a.n ula call upon their lordships to insist on suitors in ev e , c erY being placed • y oth er exactly the same position as ieleha,oetaJOgtio ,sk ho n id o 'e i r e . ss. il e did not ask more for them, and ay `a[tp CHANCELLOR referred to detailed °b ud appeared to have been made by the noble and lea ° Perati on 0 , fiord, and undertook, in regard to the suit ors in Chance bill so far as it affected holders being Zast, bye framingi ra- in . Consols, that he would do his ut , e eaa grinie Special and general order, to meet all (.Zr fi it tau Chauceroet nit ' c re• ;Viire case, and to procure equal justice 'rirad thata.r hs : sit t eo o ar t s he operations of the bill, so A w n o n o u l i d t i s e p h l o a l e d e e d r s e h n e o con ga n un tnntation bill _ Position whatever This was unlike all other corn .."titehiltahtSvsseasit(o)frWlainadne holders , B in this respect, that it provided that the understo s e e r y le ) et co t u o ld rem de a c i l o ine fa an st a a - t o u f q t u li o e , d me stock, on the same conditions (So we Le a d the noble and learned lord.) • riania a , ST . W , LEONARDS was satisfied with the expla ta the areuich the noble and learned lord had given as a nd le ra t e ,P i ju n s o t t i e Pint. But on the second point, the noble Oh b a e n r y forgotthat shoul p ensio n lord seemed to be under a misappre saanaeorace ; it.t tor he req s u u ir h e j d eet th t a o t ptional excl • usion applied to no other holders 1 HOUSE OF COIVEVIONS--(YESTERDAY.) THE BUDGET—ADJOURNED DEBATE. ( Continued front o ur Third Edition of last evening. )1 Sir F. KELLY opposed the resolutions before the house on the ground that they formed part of a scheme of taxation, which was p re g nant with new, landedenlar d, and intolerable burden s on the already oppressed interest ; because they sought to extend the income tax to Ireland, without any justification or any political or other necessity ; and because they sought to perpetuate, or continue for the unprecedented period of 7 years the income tax, with all those intolerable ine qualities which had brought discredit on the Legisad suf- lature and under which So many classes of the people h fered. Mr. LOWE, remarking that Sir F. Kelly's speech had not been addressed to the amendment, proceeded to deal with his arguments, amusing the committee by showing to what they led, and describing the deduction of Sir F. Kelly really to be that every person in every schedule of the income tax was entitled to a large reducti and on. He a dmitted that any tax was unjust per se in ans wer to the deman d for graduation, c ontended that what Mill had laid down as the abstract justice of taxation, namely, the requiring equal sacrifices was impossible. He confessed t hat from all parties , some of the flagrant errors might be corrected, and schedule D might, for instance, be dealt with ; but we should thereby introduce a new element into the system, and no longer ask what income a man had, but how he obtained it, and we should immediately hive a revolution and social war in each of the schedules. He, for example, had a small property in Australia, which he would not ex change for one of the same value in London, and it would become a matter of complaint that his income was acci dentally derived under more favourable circumstances than an English one. S uch a principle would lead the subdivision of classes until all the alphabet would be pressed into the schedules, and the tax be frittered away. As regarded Ireland, he said that the fact shortl y was, that the service for the year was inexorable, and if Ireland did not pay the 400,000/. some one must, and that must be Great Britain. What claim had Ireland to make Great Britain her tributary ? The Government scheme w as founded on the principle of free trade, which was more valuable even than free trade itself —namely, social and financial equality, and the doctrine that no portion of the people ought to be taxed for the benefit of another. As regarded the Conseliclated Annuities, some parts of Ireland w e re charged with them, others not. T former surely received ample advantage ; and as for the latter, instead of their complaining of the hardship that an undistressed part of the country, which had been advancing in pros perity, was taxed like the rest, as they ought to have been long ago, they ought to be thankful that they were not charged with arrears. He sarcastically remarked upon the hardship of taking a burden off a poor cottier to put it upon a man with at least 1001. a year. Denying that this was a "rate-in-aid," and declaring that it was an Imperial tax for Imperial purposes, ho demanded whether the word Union was a meaningless formula ; and urged that we were not entering into a convention with a foreign country. He observed that it would have been easy for Mr. Glad stone to have got rid of three-fourths of the speeches in this debate, if ho had chosen t o deal with the income tax as the late overnment had proposed to do, and had stooped to mean truckling to gain a temporary popularity. Mr. Sergeant MURPHY contendedthat it was clear from the disposition of the English Parliament, that an income tax for Ireland was inevitable • and, therefore, that it wa s better to take it at the hands of those who would also give good government than from those in whom he had less con fidence. There was a reasonable guarantee for its extinc tion in 1860. The remission of the consolidated annuities was a very important boon, and he would only look at the question as one affecting the whole of Ireland. He also remarked upon the advantage Ireland had derived from free trade, while paying no tax. Mr. ROCHE did not think the income tax the most un just tax existing, and pointed out the equal injustice of the incidence of marry indirect taxes; and he believed that in 1860 the balance on the Chancellor of the Exchequer's plan would be in favour of Ireland. Insisting on the value of obtaining equality, even at a sacrifice, he expressed his opinion that the budget was beneficial to the best interests of Ireland. Mr. DISRAELI—There are several hon. members con nected with Ireland who wish to address the committee; who will no doubt answer, the observations of the hon. gentleman who has just sat down, but, as this debate has not passed over a whole week—(hear, hear)—l think it may not perhaps be presumptuous if I take some part in it to express the opinions of some English members upon the question before us. (Cheers.) Whether we divide to-night or not, and I hope we may divide to-night-- (hear, and cheers)— hon. gentlemen on the other side will clearly understand that, in all probability, many occasion s will occur on which they may offer their opinions upon the interesting subject under discussion, for at present we are only upon the threshold of the debate. (Hear, hear.) Under these circumstance, then, I shall take the liberty of offering some observations] to the com mittee. I am bound to say that, In considering the budget of the Chancellor of the Exchequer with all that attention which so important a proposition de serves, to the general principles upon which his financial policy is framed, I must give my entire approbation (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I say that in no spirit of affected candour, or to obtain credit for a magnanimity which is really not required by the occasion, but I say it because I find in the principles upon which he has framed his policy the identical principles which, only four months ago, I endeavoured on two occasions, on the other side of the table, to impress upon the consideration of this house. (Cheers.) I said then, as the organ of the Government, that I thought the time had arrived when it was necessary to assimilate our financial policy to our new commercial sys tem. (Some hon. member—we believe Lord J. Russell — exclaimed, " Hear, hear." I don't know who said " Hear, hear." I think it was the noble lord opposite, but I recollect when I made that statement four months ago the noble lord, instead of saying " Hear, hear," rose and, in a spirit certainly of incredulity, if not of ridi cule, spoke of the idea of assimilating our financial policy to our new commercial system as a wild con ception, which had nothing to do with the practical affairs of life. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) I said then, Sir, in order to assimilate our financial policy to our new commercial system, we must make up our minds to com mence and to carry out a complete revision of our taxation. Will the noble lord say " Hear, hear," to that ? I remem ber that when I made that observation before—and recol lect it is only four short months ago—the noble lord said it was most ridiculous to enforce a complete revision of our taxation ; that our taxation had been revised more than once ; that anything like a formal revision of taxa tion was quite unnecessary, and out of the question ; that all we could do was to let the principles which had been established with respect to our finance operate in a natu ral manner, and that any proposal to have a formal or complete revision of taxation was one of those phrases which could never influence the affairs of the world. I am, however, extremely glad to find that the noble lord is so ready to encourage me at the commencement of my obser vations. (A laugh.) But it was not merely the noble lord who entertained this opinion. We had a speech de livered to-night — a very able speech, delivered, unfortu nately, in a thinner house than it deserved—by a member of the Administration, the secretary of a board, and, I be lieve, the secretary of a. board because he made a speech against the last budget. (Hear, and laughter.) What did that hon. gentleman say on the same subject? The hon. gentleman the Secretary of the Board of Control (Mr. Lowe), in the mouth of December la st, saw no case made out for any revision of taxation. "All that they had to do," he said, " was to continue going on as they had gone on hitherto." (Cheers from the Ministerial side.) We shall have several more of these assenting cheers—(laugh ter)—and I can assure hon. gentlemen they are very agree able to me to listen to. (Hoar , and a laugh.) The hon. Secretary to the Board of Control continued : " When the surplus shall be disposed of by their making further remissions of taxation, on the same principle as former remissions had been made, which led to the wonderful exten sion of trade, commerce, and increasing revenue, which all acknowledged, they would then have done all that a wise Go vernment and a prudent Legislature could do under the cir cumstances." (Hear.) Now, let hon. gentlemen recollect these w ords of the hon. memberi for Kidderminster, for I may recur to them. That hon. gentleman has spoken to-night, in the absence, unfortunately, of many who are listening to me now, and in a very different spirit from that which he manifested on the occasion to which I have policy c w o h l d e io to t n l w yo just referred. It must be remembered that I said that, e.anbeesf effected e u ct t oe e dm l y bm n ye e r c ac e i s a s l ar necessary to assimilate our financial system, complete was su b i revision and that a oft that our object taxa tion, I said also that there were two things which a Chan cellor of the Exchequer should not, under the circumstances, re f ra in from doing, and without having recourse to which this great object could not be attained. things ? One of them was, that the Chancellor What were these of the Ex chequer must not shrink from making a deficiency which was to be supplied by the proposal of new taxes in order to carry out his system ' • and the other was, that it was a bsolutely neces sar y that he should not bound opera tions by the horizo n of the fi nancial year, but his m i g ht even presume to at tempt to regulate financialthat he o perations for a lon g er term. Now, how were these propositions r eceived by the noble lord and his collea g ues 9 Why, no language can express the reprobation—(cheers from the Opp osition) —with which the heretical idea was received, that a Chancellor of the Exchequer may feel it his duty to create a deficiency and to supply the vacuum by the proposition of a new tax. (Cheers and laughter.) That indignation was not confined to the Secretary cf the Board of Control, who was then for standing upon the ancient ways. (A laugh.) Wh at said that high authority the right hon. member for the Univer sity of Cambridg e ? (Hear, hear.) That right hon. gentle man (Mr. Goulbuna) was particularly alarmed upan the subject, and described to the house the very unorthodox manner in which it was then proposed that the finances of this country should be administered. He said— " But mark hew different was the basis on which ed this and former GoverumeLts proceeded. They proceed on the basis of having las', s.?,cured by a skilful management of the receipts and expenditure of the cd to country make a larg reductions. e available balance, out of ;\lllcli they could They did not in tile first place create a deficiency, and then call upon ParliamJut make it up by fresh taxation." (Cheers.) Well, what RAM the feelings of the prese nt Chancellor of the Eachoquer upon. the subject? I don't know whether the right hon. gentlemati is present, but ' I shall be sorry to ma',ee any comments upon what ho has said in his ab.enco, The Chancellor of the Exchequer seemed to be struck with e erop horror at the proposition — (a laugh)—and lee said, speaking pc me almost in a tone of derision,—" He is going t o im p ose one tax ia order to re peal another tax. (Hear, and laughter.) Now, that is of stock, why add to the misfortune of a suit in equity such an injustice at this Their lordships might be sure such a measure would cause immense dissatisfaction and heartburning ; and he would say that he had passed days and nights in attempting to facilitate the course of jus tice in the Court of Chancery, and that he could not but feel that all that time and trouble would be utterly thrown away, if an attempt was made to deal unjustly with the funds of the suitors. Earl GRANVILLE was obliged to the noble and learned lord for his suggestions. This part of the mea sure was, no doubt, experimental, to see how the wind blew on the Stock Ex.change ; and some slight alterations might be rendere , l necessary. The bill was then passed through committee, and The house adjourned at half-past eight. most uncommon proceeding on the part of a Chancellor of the Exchequer." But, great as was the indignation _of the members of the present Government, because ',had recourse to the first method which was necessary to carry out my policy—namely, that I should create a deficiency and supply it by new taxation, their indignation was still greater that I should presume to anticipate the manage ment of our finances for a period more advanced than the termination of the impending financial year. (Hear, hear.) I may quote upon this subject again the words of the hon. member for Kidderminster, because, as he has shown to night ho is not only an honourable member, but a very high-minded member. (Laughter.) He has told us to night, that he is one of those gentlemen' who never will sacrifice anything for ephemeral popularity—(Hear, and a laugh)—that he is a man who would not to-day say one thing and to-morrow say another to gain temporary ends. (Hear, hear.) Listen, then, to the words of the hon. mem ber for Kidderminster, and I quote his] speech, for it was a single speech, and one that received a memorable reward. (Cheers and laughter.) Mark, that in order to carry into effect a complete revision of our financial system, it was necessary to have recourse to two proceedings—the first was to create a deficiency by the remission of taxes, which could only be supplied by the proposition of others ; and the second was that a Chancellor of the Exchequer engaged in such an enterprise must' not shrink from attempting to control the financial management of more than the financial year. That, however, was not the opinion of the Secre tary of the Board of Control. He said,— " The right hon. gentleman" (my humble self) " had given them two budgets to consider ; one for 1853, the other for 1854. The wisest man would have enough to do in attempt ing to arrive at a correct view of the financial condition of a great country, even for a single year." (Cheers from the Opposition). But now we have a budget for seven years—(prolonged cheering from the Opposition benches)— and, not content with this—not content with re gulating the commercial arrangements of the country for seven years—the Government accompany that measure with financial propositions that fix the rate of interest for nearly half a century. (Cheers.) Really I think this is rather a remarkable contrast to have occurred within the space of four months in the opinions of a statesman who would not say one thing to-day and another to-morrow for mere ephemeral popularity, the only difference being that the economic gentleman who was the member for Kidder minster four months ago is now Secretary to the Board of Control. (Laughter.) Hon. gentlemen will doubtless ex cuse these frank comments. I make not these quotations by way of taunt. (" Oh !" from the Ministerial, and cheers from the Opposition.) I have a perfect right to make the quotations, and I am justified in making them, to vindi cate the course I took on the occasion to which they refer, (Hear, hear.) Well, then, having given my approbation to the general principles on which the Chancellor of the Exchequer's financial scheme is founded, because, I have before observed, it is, in fact, the identical process by which I myself attempted to operate (" No, no," from the Ministerial, and " Hear, hear," from the Opposition benches)—the process is the same, though the application is different—(hear, hear)—l have now to see whether I van bestow the same approbation upon the application of the principle as I give to the principle itself. I come first to the consideration of the first resolution before the com mittee, to which an amendment has been proposed by my hon. friend the member for Hertfordshire. The Chan cellor of the Exchequer, by this resolution, proposes to continue the income tax for a term of seven years. It is a tax which has never, in our time, been proposed for a period of that duration. (Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer objects to provisional budgets—he objects to our finances being in a condition which is not esta blished and confirmed—he thinks that no arm of our finance should be of a temporary or doubtful character. There is a great authority, I am told, just published, which seems to express the same opinion. This is the lead ing article of the Ecortoinist newspaper. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) It is headed " The Budget, its Great Poli tical Feature ;" and it informs its readers that " Nothing can be more disgraceful to a great nation, or injurious to its best interests, than to permit its financial condition to be exposed to serious uncertainty, which has pre vailed in this country, at least since the expiry of the in come tax in 1851. Since then more than 5,000,0001. of the necessary income of the country have been subject to an annual vote." This, then, is the great political feature of the budget, to terminate the dangerous and pernicious system by which so large a portion of our income as 5,000,000/. is dependent on an annual vote of this house. What new lights break upon us ! Perhaps I may remind the committee --although I confess that until I heard the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and read this authority, I should have thought it unnecessary to do so—that at no very remote period—no longer, indeed, than when, I first entered this assembly, a large amount of the annual re venue was always under the control of Parliament, and subject to an annual vote. (Hear.) But what is more ex traordinary still, this state of things was held by high constitutional authorities to be one of the securities of the rights and liberties of the people. (Cheers.) The system was then highly valued by all gentlemen professing liberal opinions, not only as the safeguard of popular rights and liberties, but also as the best security for an economical administration of the finances. (Hear, hear.) The sugar duties were voted annually in order that Parliament might have a control over the annual revenue of the country. (Hear, hear.) In amount, too, the sugar duties were little less than the income tax, which we are now dis cussing. (Cheers.) Why, it was only at a very recent period that the Minister of the day, having to deal with the sugar duties, took the opportunity of appealing to the house, on account of the question of slavery to concede that those duties should no longer be dependent on an annual vote and entered into a compact with the house to substi tute for the amount secured by those duties an equal sum to be subject to an annual vote of the house. (Cheers.) Who was that minister ? The committee shall hear. On the 20th of July, 1846, the house resolved itself into a Commit tee of Ways and Means, like the present, and Lord John Russell spoke in these words :—" I do not propose to vary in any respect the constitutional practice of leaving a large a considerable amount of revenue, dependent on a yearly vote of .this house, as hitherto has been the case, I shall therefore propose some other source of revenue, which I will state before these resolutions are formed into the shape of a bill, to be yearly income, and for which, pre vious to the sth of July, the minister of the Crown shall every year be obliged to ask the consent of parliament. I think that it would be unfortunate that the duties on sugar should be made the annual subject of debate, and, without departing from a constitutional practice, I shall endeavour to find some other duty, which it will be less objectionable to take as an annual vote." (Cheers.) The noble lord, who will probably follow me in debate, will, perhaps avail himself of the opportunity to inform us what is the branch of public revenue which, in conformity with the promise then given, he has provided for the annual decision of Par liament. (Cheers and laughter.) The noble lord, however; on a point of constitutional practice, speaks with the au thority of a master, and he is bound, before the committee shall come to a vote on the resolution submitted to it, to explain upon what grounds he supports a proposition ad vanced for the express purpose, as was avowed, of setting aside the " constitutional practice of having a considerable amount of revenue dependent on a yearly vote of this House." (Cheers.) We have been expecting every year that the noble lord would produce the tax over which Par liament should exercise the control declared to be so valu able in a constitutional as well as in an economic point of view ; but we certainly did not expect to be told that the enjoyment of this great constitutional privilege was a fiscal enormity—(cheers and laughter)—we did not expect to be !told that when, by accident, an opportunity oc curred of dealing with a branch of revenue, equal in amount to, but not greater than the sugar duties, if we exercised our power in this respect we should endanger the finances and expose the country to danger. (Cheers.) So much, then, for the Chancellor of the Exchequer's first proposition to renew the income tax for seven years on the ground that it was desirable a large branch of the national revenue should not be dependent on an annual vote of Par. liament. I differ from the right hon. gentleman ou that point. The late Government having to propose the con tinuance of the income tax, indicated that the period should be three years, in deference to the precedent which had always prevailed ; but, if we had to chose between a period of seven years and a period of one year, I should vote for the latter. (Hear.) What I wish to impress on the committee is, the error of these new fangled doctrines —that it is dangerous to have a large amount of revenue dependent on the annual vote of Parliament ; for I believe that if we regained the exercise of the ancient constitu tional privilege from which we have been too long de barred, it would be in the power of this house to ensure a better and more economical control over the finances. I come now to the second part of the Chancellor of the Ex chequer's proposition respecting the income tax, and that is with regard to its assessment. The right hon. gentleman proposes not only to continue the tax for seven years, but also that no difference shall be made in the mode of its assessments. Perhaps the house will not think it imperti nent in me if I take the opportunity of explaining the reasons why the late Government fixed on the rate of as sessment which they recommended the House of Commons to adopt. Remember, I have never had an opportunity of expressing my opinions on this matter. Our vote for the income tax never came before the house. In deference to the feeling of the house, I placed the whole financial propositions of the late Government before it, and the income tax resolution was included among the others, but I said, at the time, that I did not intend to ask for the opinion of the Committee of Ways and Means on the question until after Christmas, and that all I then de sired was, that tho house should be in possession of the principle on which we proceeded. The noble lord the member for London, when a candidate for a seat in Parlia ment lately, said I had declared I had not had time to look over the schedules of the income tax. I suppose men may say anything when they are on the hustings. (Cheers and laughter.) Great license, we know, is permitted under such circumstances, and therefore I should have made no remark on that statement of the noble lord, had I not heard it stated on Friday last, in sentences of solemn pro priety, that the debate on my proposition respecting the income tax had confessedly broken down. Why, there never was any discussion on the subject. I never said that I had not looked over the schedules of the income tax ; and perhaps those who make these assertions are not as well acquainted with them as myself. (Hear, hear.) What I said was, that between the time when I publicly an nounced the rate of difference we proposed in the schedules, and the end of a week following, I had not had time to refer to the practical authorities to make an adjustment in harmony with the settlement we proposed, but that no alteration that could be made would materially affect the financial results which I had laid before the house. Let me remind the committee of the circumstances under which we undertook the revision of the taxation of the country, the first steps towards which was the proposition I sub mitted to the house ; for I stated, at the time, that it was not a complete system. It was our opinion that the taxa tion of this country unduly pressed on the interests con nected with the land. (Hear, hear.) That opinion we expressed openly ; we had no wish to conceal it. It was our opinion that after the abrogation of a protective policy, the best mode of assisting a class subjected to unrestricted competition was to lessen the cost of production, and we m t wd h - i a et a i s t e o a n v tl w e e de c d o t; thought that that could not be done without a general revision of the system of taxation. (Hear.) This policy was openly announced ; nothing was hidden ; our object despair vandrr were hfp publicly attainingbmli e e a l means by announced. w ou h irchobwjnenintended (Hear, ebanr t, bue t n o a Ire ! s t ) s t attain justice, we knew ee th th at e desire that it should be. The could . convince the country that our policy was founded in itco u w n o t u r l y d t n h o at our policy was just we commence the revision of prine t ip b l e e ace ef u ep n t r e e i s l iri n e o t r e d d id avowed view was impossible for us to com petition having it became my duty to of removingo our financial system with the s undue tat n th e it was impossible for us t c o al s t u s pressure operations on la nd. wh ich w I e t those measures into effect; contemplated with ou t the aid against which so much of the income tax—that tax opinion, in a great degree, so m o u had been excited, and in our opinion, having to revise the whole excited. It was our with the avowed purpose of reliev i n g the of our taxation, undue pressure, that it was absolutely g the land from an come to the commercial classes with seine necessary we should what we really believed was the undue some exposition of ticular tax upon them, 4,4 of our willingnessthe tradin g, to remove the the com- enereiale and, manufacturing 'classes. ' I make no contrasts *hom were born since some of tece great events of. now—our. time , is -too precious-e -between income derived 1 which we are treating. To them the right h i on. gentleman from realized- prepertY - and incomes- the result of intellie -L may have - conveyed an impression that with the income geace and skill. We have 110 time for r hetoric now; but tax, in addition to the ordinary sources of rev enue , we there is not a man in this house who has not contemplated produced a revenue equal to all the expenses of th e war, the question, and who is not asham e d by the contrast,. and yet with only a slight surplus pf expenditure—the' whatever his opinion may be on the general financial ques- revenue being 65,000,0001., and the expenditure 67,000,000/. tion,—and I appeal alike to the brain and to the heart of —or the reverse, I forget which way the balance was. every man to come to a verdict of that kind. But I will New, if that were so, unquestionably the income tax meet the question of the trading and the commercial would be that colossal weapon which he so justly described classes—those classes connected with terminable annuities. it. But between 1806 and 1816, the year of the peace, the I shall put before the committee in a brief and succinct right hon. gentleman forgot to say that although we had a formula a contrast that brought conviction to my mind, revenue of 65,000,0001., meeting an expenditure of and it is necessary to my argument, and in vindication of 67,000,0001., yet that there was simultaneously created a the course I am now detailing, that I should place before. Vast addition to the public debt, and that between 1806 you briefly and clearly the considerations which led to our and 1816 that public debt had incresed from 600,000,000/. determination. There is a man with 200001. which he.in- to about 840,000,000/. (Hear, hear.) Hon. gentlemen vests in realised property. Well, I will suppose that he mina remember this, when they hear of the efficacy of this obtains 800 1 . a year for it, being-at the rate of 4 per' cent. colossal instrument, that there was a deficit in 1814, 1815, There is another man who has the same amount of capital, and 1816, of 91,000,0001. That was the state of our who invests it in property perishable at the end of 20 finances. We had an increase of our deficit simultaneously years—in silks, in machinery, or in annuities terminableett with the use of this charmed weapon, whose qualities the that time. The one man who receives for his 20,0001. in- Chancellor of the Exchequer so ably dilated on. Th er e is vested in real property 8001. yearly •, the other receives for one other point in the income tax to which I must advert, the said amount invested in perishable property at the end and that is its extension. Assuming, as I do, the perme of 20 years, or in a terminable annuity, exactly 1,4731. neat feature of this tax, I think that no class or —6731. being the interest, at 4 per cent., that at the country should have been exposed to it without end of twenty years will supply the capital which has a Mitigation of its injustice. But I must argue as if perished. (Hear, hear.) Take that case—it takes in all. this tax will cease. And now I have to consider its But how do you tax the two men ? You tax the man who extension to Ireland. The right hon.. gentleman the Pre owns the realised property at the rate of 24/. a year. and sident of the Board of Control (Sir C. Wood) said that I you tax the 1,4731., which is virtually also realised pro- had proposed the extension of the income tax to Ireland, perty, at the rate of 4 4 1 . a year- And this is the system and that I did not propose a:measure to deal with the con which you are going to support , —(cheers)—which you, who solidated annuities. I must say, sir, that I see no profess to be the peculiar representatives of the commercial connexion between the income tax and the consolidated body, are now going to establish f or a t erm o f seven years, annuities. (Cheers.) I see no connexion between the as you say, but, as I shall presently show y o u, most pro- incidence of imperial taxation and the results of' local ar bably for ever. (Hear, hear.) You are taxing the pro- rangement, and I, think it most impolitic, indiscreet, and perty of those classes whom you are sent here to represent unwise ever to Mix them together. (Hear.) Sir, I have nearly double the amount, and you do this while at the heard, not in the course of this debate, but of converse saline time you continue to tell us that you are doing so 'in tions within this house, of something like a compact rela the interest of the trading and commercial classes. (Cheers.) tive to the income tax and the Irish members. (Cheers.) With these facts before us, with a conviction that the as- Now, of all, the men in this house, lam one who, perhaps, sessment was unjust, we feel that it was absolutely nem- needed, less than any other to have a compact with any sary in order to put the case to the commercial classes when Irish member as to the policy which I felt it my , duty to asking them to agree to the continuance of the income tax recommend with regard to the income tax and the conso that we might carry out a revision of our financial system, lidsted annuities. Four months ago I had to consider in with the avowed purpose of relieving th e l an d f r om an Un- the responsible situation in which I was then placed, the due pressure —it was necessary, I say, that we should ac`- . 'extension . of •the' income:tax to Ireland, and, after a ma knowledge the existence of inequalities' in the system of - tare consideration of the subject, we unanimously came assessment of the income tax. We never proposed the to the conclusien, that it would be unwise and inexpedient difference of 4 and of per cent, as a fi na ncial arrange- to extend it to, Ireland. We not only thought it unwise ment. We offered it 'only as the acknowledgment of a to extend it to Ireland at the present moment, but for the principle. (Hear, hear.) The right honourable gentlernan- considerable period which we proposed to Parliament to the Chancellor of the Exchequer says that land is not intrust us _with this tax we had no immediate intention of taxed more than any other property under the schedule; changing our policeein this respect. It was our opinion, in which land and all real property is included ; and the., for reasons, which I need not give, but it was arrived at right hon. gentleman further says, that when you take 'after ample and anxious consideration by the late Govern into consideration the burdens on land you ought to in- ment, that it was quite out of the question to extend the elude all the local taxation. Strong phrases these from income tax to Ireland. Sir, I am prepared to support the Chancellor of the Exchequer ! (Hear, hear, and & the same policy now that I advocated on the other side of laugh.) Significant acknowledgments from, that side of, the table. (Hear.) It is not true that I was not prepared the house, when I remember the five years during which I to make a proposition upon the Consolidated Annuities. I endeavoured to press upon the house an acknowledgment _say !that these two subjects ought not to be' mixed up with that there were burdens peculiar to land. (Hear, hear.) each other, and that they have no necessary, connexion. When I rememberethat I was told, night after night, and On `the contrary, I said, that I would take the earliest day by no one more 'earnestly, more continuously, or more 'to anbrnit a resolution to the house on the Consolidated consistently than by the members of the present Govera- Annuities. I said that, after I stated that the Government ment, that the idea of. local taxation was a burden upon did ,not intend to extend the income tax to Ireland. The land was a mere illusion, I say it is satisfaotore , to me to proposal I was prepared to bring forward ,with regard to have lived to find on acknowledgment of its being true in the Consolidated Annuities was certainly not that which the basis, to a certain degree, of the financial arrangement the right hon. gentleman has made, but it was one founded before the committee. (Cheers.) The right ho n . ge ntle- upon equity, which would, I think, have given complete man the Chancellor of the Exchequer says there is a dif- satisfaction to all those who were interested in the affair. ference of 2d. in the pound in the schedules between the I have now touched upon the principal points of the first assessment of real property an d the assessment of other resolution of the right hon. gentleman. I might stop here, kinds of property. Well, sir, I will not stop to analyse but I beg the permission of the committee e -and I will not the data upon which the r i g ht hon. gentleman has ar- abuse their indulgence—to allow me to express the general rived at his conclusion, but he may be sure that he will opinion which I entertain with respect to the financial be reminded of this conc lusion before these debates are policy recommended by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. over. (Hear, hear.) But, sir, I say that it was not Sir, I have one great objection to that policy. It appears as a complete. financial arrangement, but' as the ac- to me that the whole of the financial policy of the right knowledgment of a principle made in the spirit of con- hon. gentleman is conceived in a spirit of injustice to the ciliation, that I made that difference in the schedules. land. (Loud cheers; Now, sir, that is a subject on which We have now the income tax at a particular rate of assess., I have no wish to indulge in declamation, as the hon. ment, but no certainty that that assessment shall not be member for the West Riding said of the Chancellor of the changed. We have a Government that professes to deal Exchequer. lam ready, with the permission of the corn more largely with the income tax than any other Govern- mittee, to establish the truth of my opinion by reasoning ment in our experience, and deals with it for a period of and by facts. And, as I plead for an interest which is seven years. This is an ago of great financial operations. now surrounded for no artificial legislation—as I give you Suppose next year a Chancellor of the Exchequer proposes credit for sincerely wishing that all classes of the comma to modify the rate of assessment—suppose that happens, nity should, so far as it is possible, receive from the Legis which happened half a century ago, when we are also ture, especially upon financia leubjects, justice,—l trust governed by " All the talents" —(laughter) — supposing the you will listen to me with temper and toleration, and that Ministry come down to the house, and propose to extend you will not permit the memory of ancient feuds to divert the income tax to 10 per cent., what answer would it be to your minds from the facts which I shall lay before you. the artist, the artisan, the merchant, and the tradesman, (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, I would ask the committee to that the land was 2s. or 24d. in the pound more than they view for a moment the state of our revenue in its amount. were ? If our arrangement had been established, they If you look to the last returns you will find that the ordi would at least have felt that if at a future time the impost nary sources of our revenue, deducting that income tax assumed a severer and more burdensome character gene- which was only proposed as a temporary tax, and which as rally, they, at least, must find considerable relief in the' a temporary tax is the basis of the financial scheme of the change in the assessment. And, sir, I still maintain that Ministry—deducting that temporarytax from the ordinary in coming forward to ask the commercial classes to grant sources of revenue, the revenue amounts to about us the income tax, in order that we might carry into effect 46,000,0001. sterling per annum. This great country, with a complete revision of our taxation, the object of which the most extensive commerce of modern times,—the most was to relieve land from an undue pressure of taxation, admirable manufactures, governed by the great towns, — according to our opinions, we were taking a prudent, a this country of progress raises an imperial revenue to the wise, and a comprehensive course, which, carried out to its amount of 46,000,0001. sterling per annum from its ordi full extent, was one which would not have been fruitless. nary sources. Now,. let the house observe that one-fourth We were told by those who had a right to speak with au- of that revenue is raised by a duty upon a single crop of thority on such subjects that the plan we proposed would the British farmer. (Cheers.) The average of the united not diminish the revenue, while it would most certainty duties that you levy, directly or indirectly, upon barley give satisfaction in the inequality of the assessment as respected the coin- show you how this system operates—how it must operate mercial, trading, and professional classes, and we deemed under the financial policy recommended by her Majesty's it our duty to endeavour to adjust the inequality, because Government. (Hear, hear.) You are called upon in we were not asking them to grant the income, tax for the this scheme to deal with the tea duties. It ie unneces avowed purpose of relieving the undue pressure of taxation sary for me to say that that is a proposition which I can on the land of the united kingdom. (Loud cheers.) W e ll, view with no repugnance ; I have always considered that sir, the right hon. gentleman opposite now proposes to the tea duties, per se, were a most unwise impost, and continue the tax, without any difference in the assessment, one which a Minister of Finance, at a favourable oppor. for a further period of seven years. I may, perhaps, he tunity, and in a proper spirit, ought to deal with ' • and I allowed briefly to state the reasons why I do not think proved the sincerity of my views by dealing with them. that at the end of seven years the incidence of the tax will (Hear, hear.) I make no comment to-night upon the pro terminate. The first reason why lam incredulous is, be- position of the Chancellor of the Exchequer with respect cause I see that the spirit of the times in which we live is to the tea duties : I believe that the supply is illimitable • hostile to the abrogation of that tax. (Hear, hear.) I beg which China can afford us of tea, and therefore, though the house to recollect the various aspects which the income I should have preferred my more prudent arrangement, I tax has assumed since it was first brought under our am not terrified by the arrangement of the Chancellor of notice by the late Sir Robert Peel. It was first brought the Exchequer. But if I were of the same opinion as the forward to supply a deficiency, and in order that it might Chancellor of the Exchequer, or the member for the Uni assist in the creation of a surplus out of which the indi- versity of Cambridge, that the supply was limited, then I root taxation of the country might be dealt with. It confess, if I were Chancellor of the Exchequer, I should was continued again for the same purpose of creating a not feel as easy as he seems to be. (Laughter, and cri es o f surplus, which should allow you still further to deal with " Hear, hear.") But understand what you are going to the indirect taxes. Well, what is the ase at the present do. You are going to reduce the duties upon tea more moment? It is no longer proposed , in 'order to create a than 100 per cent. ; you are going to bring tea into in surplus, tp enable you to deal with: the system of direct creased competition with those beverages that are prepa re d taxation ; but you are gofer advanced that you must grant from the productions of the British farmer. (Hear, h.) the income tax to support your revenue as at present It will probably become a substitute for spirits and beer established; and to provide for your necessary expend!- produced from barley. (Hear.) Manygentlemen opposite tare ; and you ask us not only to grant the income tax, say that they have no objection to tea or to wino becoming but to lay on other taxes to the amount of nearly a substitute for spirits—for whisky, for gin, or for beer. 3,000,0001., for the purpose of dealing with the indirect Well, if that is the natural course of human affairs—if taxation—(loud cheers)—and, considering the circum- that change resulted from a concomitant change of habits , stances which have occurred during the last 10 years, a and feelings and tastes in the people, he would be a very man must shut his eyes to all that passes around him, and unwise man who should set his face against the change, be incapable of perceiving the temper and the signs f the But, if that change is produced by the foreign products times, the thoughts and habits of his fellow-men, if he can entering into competition with the English proucts, with suppose that the income tax, having so well fulfilled: the the immense advantage of being taxed by half less, then purposes for which it was established, will be abandoned— their substitution for the products of the British farmer is he must be the most credulous o f men if he can believe in fact not the consequence of a change of taste in the peo that we are standing still or retrograding. How can any ple, but of your fiscal injustice. (Hear, hear.) And that man suppose that the arguments which prevail with re- is what I wish to impress upon you. Rely upon it, you spect to taxation will not be generally applied ? What ar- may crack jokes about reducing the malt duties, and re gument in favour of remitting the tea duty does not apply missions of duty going into the pocket of the brewer, and to the wino .duty? What argument is there that is maudlin philanthropists may denounce dram-drinking, and brought forward in favour of a remission of the Excise say that they will not encourage a 'legislation that gives duty on soap that does not equally apply to the Excise any impetus to such a habit ; but the jests and jokes even duty on paper ? (Hear.) Cheap sugar is one of the bless: of a President of the Board of Control will be baffled by ings of the age. Why should you not have cheaper the inexorable principles of political economy—(hear)— sugar? (Cheers.) We have had the article of tobacco and the maudlin philanthropist who denounces dram brought under our notice lately, and we have been re- drinking, but is nothing loth to receive the dividends minded that English smugglers hare always made large which dram-drinking supplies, is not a legislator who I fortunes so long as we retained the immense impost on hope will ever in fl u e nce the decrees of the House of Corn tobacco. (Hear.) Well, I have also a second reason why mons. (Hear, hear.) 11,000,0001. or 12,000,0001. a-year I think the income tax will not terminate at the end of .7 can never be raised without being paid by the consumer, years, and that second reason I find in the whole scope of and, if paid by the consumer, they must restrict the in the financial policy of the right hon. gentleman—in all hie dustry and restrain the trade and commerce of the man antecedents—in the whole of his conduct and career. If that produces. (Hear, hear.) It is of very great impor the arguments of the right hon. gentleman upon this and tance, no doubt , th at we should deal wit the' excessive upon former occasions mean anything, they mean that we indirect taxation that attaches to many foreign articles ; should find the means of supplying the whole of the re- it is of great importance that we should extend our com: venue raised from the Customs' duties in direct taxes. merce with India and China on a sounder basis ; and that That is the natural and inevitable consequence of the right is one of the main reasons why we should deal with the hon. gentleman's arguments. I am perfectly willing to tea duties. It is of very great importance that we should concede, that when tho right hon. gen tl ema n (Mr- Glad- increase our commerce with France an d th e sou th of stone) held out the Prospect, which he did the other night, Europe ; and that is a very good reason why that at the end of 7 years the income t a x would cease to should deal with the win e an d brandy duties. we ßut, exist, he was speaking with perfect conscientiousness. • I irrespective of political justice, ,have you considered have not the slightest doubt that the right hon. gentle- the fiscal consequences which must accrue if you persist man is sanguine in his hopes and anxi ous e ffect a sue- lessening the indirect tax a ti on upon the toChinese tea or in the cessful arrangement, and lam ready to admit that, should French wine, and at the same time leave the im the year 1860 find him in the positi on o f Chancellor of the post that exists upon the malt and the spirits enormous that are made Exchequer but bring with it circumstances totally adverse from British produce? (Hear.) That was the reason that to his commercial policy, the right h on . gentleman induced the late Government to make up their minds to is so conscientious a man that it is quite likely he wean deal with the 11,000,0001. or 12,000,0001. that you raise resign the office sooner than propose the contin uance cf from a tax upon a single crop of the British farmer e the tax for a further period. (H ear .) We shall see Mere were as desir ous as gen tl emen opposite to increase mir' com as we (lid in the case of the Mayn oo th—(hear)—resign. his merce with China, and to expand our trade with France; office and retire beneath the gangway, whence the right but we felt that we had a primary duty to fulfil, and that hon. gentleman would again rise and recommend the re- we were bound simultaneously to reduce the burden and newel of the tax ; he would sacrifice himself to save his mass of indirect taxation that pressed upon the industry of country. (Cheers and laughter.) I have g i ve n at least the British producer. .Irrespective' of political justice, I two reasons, one being the character and feeling of the age, ask what must bo the fiscal consequences of articles of fo and the other the character of the right hon. gentleman, reign product—like tea and wine—coming in at reduced, by which lam induced to believe that the income tax will and, if the system of the right hon. gentleman be ever con become a permanent tax if we consent to its retention for summated, perhaps at nominal duties, and supplanting the a period of 7 years. If th a t b e so , it appears to me that beverages th at are produced from the barley of the British we have arrived at this dilemma :—if this is to be a per- cultivator of the soil? What will become of your revenue manent tax, we are authorised, with the inequalities, the of 11,000,000/. or 12,000,0001.? (Hear.) By every conside injustice, and the odious qualities that it possesses— ration of a sound finance, irrespective of political justice— are we authorised to extend it to new classes and coup- which is a higher consideration than sound finance even— tries without any attempt being made to mitigate these you ought at least to take care, when you are bringing in odious qualities and to adjust those inequalities? If articles which enter into competition with articles produced it be, as I believe it avo wedly is, the basis of the lby the English cultivator of the soil, that the competition Government proposition that this is to be only a tem. which he enters into is, as you say, an unrestricted compe porary tax, for seven years, is it wiee—is it politic, I tition. (Hear.) But what is the course recommended by hor ask again, to introduce an impost so essentially unju s t an d Majesty's Ministers ? While they are reducing by more odious to new classe s a nd new countries? (Hear, hear.) than 100 per cent. the tax upon tea, while they are pro- But that is the dilemma of the right hon. gentleman. My , pared at a favourable opportunity probably to deal also in opinion is, that our proper policy would be to renew it, the same manner with wine, while they are allowing these and for a very limited time, as was proposed by the late foreign articles to enter into competition with articles of Government, with as much' o f a mitig atory character as British growth that are subject to a duty of 200 per cent., we could contrive. That was the proposition of the late the only proposition they make with respect to this amount Government, and it is the proposition of my hon. friend of indirect taxation is to add 500,0001. to the amount which the member for Hertfordshire (Sir B. Lytton), although is already found so oppressive. (Hoar.) So far for the the adoption of that proposition of my hon. friend does not justice of the policy of the Government as to the land with bind any gentleman who may support it to the specific. respect to sealing with indirect taxation. I am asking no proposal of the late Government. i But if this tax is not to favour, mind you, for the land in this behalf. (Hear.) I be mitigated, and if its inequalities and its injusti c e are to. shall be glad if any gentleman can get up, with the most baffle both Minister and Legislature , the best thing to do extreme views of the subject of unrestricted competition, is to apply your surplus and accruing • dicate theirpolicy. (Hear.) I say we are bound, income . as you re-, Ind yin ceive it to the reduction of an impost which no Minister' if we admit foreign products like tea and wine at, much re endure. (Cheers.) In duced duties, to deal also with that immense taxation can manage and no people can . long considering this important ,which we raise from English articles, for which these fo the whole of this question, in th right hon. will • allprobability besubstitute. described gentle e reign products in arm of our national finance, which man the Chancellor of the Exchequer with so ; (Hear.) I cannot imagine that there that cvl ll much power, but which I think he described in a manner question . the policy, or the wisdom,_ er • .ne justice policy who to hon. members proposition. (Hear, hear.) Now, ef the financial that conveyed an erroneous impression financial matters—in consider- '-• ht hon. gentleman 1 1 with the • • f the rig ( ea a indirect taxa ingwho are not experienced in you t l . 0. t d th 1 what is it r, as accura ey as tion in so unjus a manner as regar s this tax, we should always d enob'ects we are to gain by doing at the same time witb. our , direct taxation ? (Hear, we can, to ascertain whethert the J the cos t. (Hear, hear.) The hear.) Why, we find this, —this is the first thing that moots its perpetuation are worth tax upon paper is bad ; :—A farmer finds. in the first place that the duties and, as tax upon soap we obtain a surplus, these is a bad tax, the taxes, I admit, should .upon barley indirectly affect the whole soil of the kingdom, 1 of the Minister of Finance. and that 'his e,auct au mmense impost placed in early command the attention tmake enincome tax a per-, unrestricted aom pr petition with with i his foreign rivals, is who have But, when you are asked o th you are asked, not whether to p&,y a welch reduced rate ; he finds, in addition to this, manent portion of our n fi tea are i mpolitic or not—of course that the indirect taxation upon the article he produces is the taxes upon soap and . t ea is a worth your while to relieve increased and what more does he find when he leaves the they are—but whether incidencei of these taxes by perpetuating - domain of indirect taxation He finds the right hon..g9en yourself from the must follow the advice of Dr. Frank- tleman saying, " You will meet this increased competition the income tax. You the whistle is worth its price. The with' increased indirect contest,n, in addition to a I din, and see whether gave us a description of th e income. 'this, to sustain you in the we are going to put right hon. gentle g mahievements. The hon. member for the upon you an income-tax." That is the position of tho tax and and its gre ens- c C b len) said it was declamatory. It tivator of the soil ; what is the condition of the proprietor West Riding ((• was some what declamatory , but that Ido not quarrel with. , of the s oi l —the p ro p rietor of the soil who has been told to B u t it appeared to me to be inaccurate, or of the income tax, to which I may (Hear.) You are going to propose a tax which you call an idea of the results a new house, and I ara extending the legacy duties to land, which will act as a pardoned if I advert. This is be young members in it, some of direct tax of a very considerable amount upon all real pro happy to say there are many y thing abouithe absolute.necessity.ef -the scale being alteresl ! ( Hear, hear.) ,But if rumour is true even the plan itself is to be abandoned. - Now, mark the difference when a parti cular class of the population of the towns is concerned in matters of taxation, and when You deal with those who are connected, with the land. (Cheers.) There is not the slight est, doubt—l take it for granted—:that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would never have proposed the licences un less he believed them to be just and. -proper, and not only • . just but politic, But he changes. his opinion in 24 hours when the trades rise and tell him they' will not endure it. • The farmer must bear his:income-tax, the proprietor of ths) .soil must bear his increased burden of direct taxation, the cultivator Must find his burden of indirect taxation unne cessarily aggravated, while he has fresh rivals in the field in the articles he produces. (Hear, hear.) He murmurs, • but he is to get no relief. (Loud cheers.) - But the instant • a particular class in the country.are touched` by the Mini ster of Finance; ..alders are given --the delegates wait — and the Minister mbles. (Cheers.). . Now; sir, I have ad- Verted to -this subject. before, and think it by much the inest-serious of our pOlitical condition. •-- If it be the fact that certain classes in this country, because they have a certain portion -of electoral power, are,exercising that • electoral power systematically to exempt themselves from Just taxation—(cheers)—l cannot coercive any feature in Our state as a nation more to be deprecated, and snore perilous, and more to be arrested. (Cheers.) Why, what • has been the ca.use - ofthe disturbances.ofnationa and of the fall even of 'thrones ? It has been the existence of classes exempted from taxation. •I see no difference been a pri vileged noble and a privileged 'tobacconist. (Cheers and laughter.) In matters of finance it is equally important, • whether it is the wealthy man with thousands who calls on the Chancellor of the Exchequer and abjures him notto touch him with an impost or the tradesmen with a NI. note. The circumstances are equally grave—equally full of . political disorders. • Nor can I doubt that what have been the - Consequences in one case will be the same in the other, for I feel it is the privileged which will be the class that will suffer in the end, though it may now reap an undue and unh o ly harvest. Nor can the electoral system last which will permit such scenes which we now almost yearly see in the House of Commons in consequence of this state s those Complain whenows —when t i i n e ot h o t s a v ot n n e i lruy injured by his project, b u t i rr it a t e d by s t of f e the su b j of things. B u t w h en th ese great - scandals take place, d tool t of t d h t e h e fi u . au cultivatorsee Minister o f t t h hsoile y " are not justly t reated, and claim from lim•nothi ng but justice e e unwise concessions, they come to him by their repre sentatives, ho w are they' met? By taunts and by jeers. What said the President of the Board 'of Control to some one who had made comments on the scheme of the Govern ment? He said, " You had better take my advice—(a laugh)—you had bett er take thismeasure or you will get worse." " Now, Sir," sa id the President of the Board of Control, "remember the eight shilling •fixed duty. You did not take that ; you see what. not taking the measure ' we brought forward led to." ( dA.ilaeu.gh(leal::ehlle,atrhst The s h a e very favourite topic on the other cheer of the right hon. gentleman will allow me to dwell on it a little longer. It is not merely the President of the Board of Control that takes this course. The President of the Board of Control is rather of an active and vigorous than an original mind, . (Laughter.) The precedent of the Board of Control has followed the conduct of one—l say it without offence, fer he is a person for whom I have a very ,great regard—he has followed, in this, the example of more eminent persons. The noble lord is very fond of giving his advice on this subject. At the' beginning of the year I brought forward a motion respecting our foreign relations with France, and it fell to the noble lord to answer the • observations I made. The noble lord, on that occasion— the subject being our relations with France—delivered himself of an oration in favour of free trade. (Laughter, and cheers from the Opposition.) Not a very uncommon habit with the noble lord. (Cheers.) And he said then that if I had followed his advice I might have been one of her Majesty's Ministers at that time. (Cheers and laughter.) As far as that ware. concerned, I believe it did not depend upon my • following his advice, provided I had only followed his example. (Loud cheers from the Opposition.) I dare say• if we had submitted to • what I see Ministers submit that probably I might have been sitting on those (the Ministorial) benches. (Hear.) But that is not the point to which: I wish to call attention to the noble lord. The noble lord has said, and he has now been followed up by the President of the Board of Control," " You never take our advice. I advised you to take an Bs. duty on corn, but you 'would not take it." The noble lord has reminded us of that: several times. I should not, however, have noticed it if the President of the Board of Control had not said it. (Laugliter and cheers from the Opposition.) If the taunt had come - from the right hon. baronet the member for Portsmouth (Sir F. Baring), who was Chancellor at the time, I might have allowed it to pass, because he might have been . justified in making it ; but the taunt has been so often. repeated and stereotyped that I think it is time it should cease. I have, therefore, thus noticed it, in order, if possible, to prevent its repeti tion. I think it would only have . been decent of the noble lord to have stated under whose advice, and at whose ur gent advice, we did refuse the Bs..fixed duty on corn. It is not for me to depreciate the comprehensive idea of a fixed duty of Bs. on corn. I give the noble lord all the credit that is due to him in that respect... But at the same time, when the noble lord remembers under whose advice and at whose instance that proposal was refused—when he re members who are those by whom. ho is now surrounded — (Opposition cheers)—when the noble lord remembers that he.has thrown away the Whig party, and that he has ac cepted a subordinate office under the subordinate officers of Sir Robert Peel, I think he Knight have felt that the time has come when these scoffs and sneers should cease. The hon. member for the West Rik-ling (Mr. Cobden) said, other night, that his (Mr. Marken's) hon. and much-re spected friend, the hon. member for Warwickshire, had stated that-this budget was a great triumph to Manchester. I had hoped that the old feud beltween town and country had ceased for ever. There exist, s no difference of mate rial interests any longer between , town and country. The very motion which my hon. frier td the member for Hert fordshire has Proposed tonight is .somewhat significant of that, and is evidently conceived iha spirit ohonourable conciliation. I could therefore hAve hoped, however, that you might have voted that you would have accepted that amendment in the same spirit. ()Opposition cheers.) The hon. member for Manchester, when addressing his consti tuents some time ago, expressed ;his amazement that the country gentlemen should have 'inade such a proposition, and added, that they were entitled to the kindly feelings of the working classes of the country. That was the way in which the hon. member for Manchester had spoken of the proposition which has been treat end ,so differently by the Secretary of the Board of Control. That right hon. gen tleman had spoken of our proposition in terms—l will not say offensive, for if they had bee a offensive I should have called in the Attorney-General t, ) have taken a message to the right hon. gentleman, because I recollect—it is still ringing in my ears—the glowing; oulogium made by the first Crown officer upon that ...cry subject The hon. member for Manchester spoke, in a manner honour able to himself, and worthy of the occasion ; and I tell him that no class values more highly than the country gen tlemen the rights and liberties of the people ; no class has less interest in the corrupt adminfistration of the affairs of the country ; and no class has a greater interest in an ' economical administration of those affairs. (Cheers.) Gentlemen are very apt to tell - a s of the great weight and importance of the great towns, a . rid that this budget was supported by the members of those great towns. But I have already said that I think there is no great difference :in material interests between the -people of great towns and the country gentlemen. But I -am told that there are moral and. political differences--I mean by moral, social differences. lam very loath to believe it. (Hear.) I cannot but believe that it will be remembered. that these great towns are situate in a country of no considerable ex tent, with no excessive population, and with a commerce, however great, which has been is repaired, and with manu factures, however successful, whileh have been surpassed. What makes this country great ? The national character of the country—(hear)—the mitional character of the country which has been created by its institutions and by ' its traditional influences impress( idupon those institutions. Those institutions are deeply and broadly planted in the soil, and that soil is not the possession of any exclusive class. The manufacturer may dt 'posit within it his accu mulated capital, and he may enjoy those privileges which his possessions entitle him' to, at the same time that he discharges those duties which his' possessions also impose. (Cheers.) Then, why this hostility to land? Every man in this country is deeply interetited in maintaining the stability of the possession of the land of this country. I therefore adjure those gentlemen who are the representa; - tives of large towns to condescend to ponder over these observations, and not to be led °may by prejudices and by the influence of the present debates ; remembering that we are all alike interested in maintaining the greatness of this country, not only in its material possessions, but in the existence of its institutions. Should, however, the repre sentatives of towns take another . course, which I trust not, then of this I feel convinced, tha• t if they are still alienated from ns —if they still proceed int their illusory progress, they may arrive at the goal which they contemplate, they may achieve the object they have set beforo them, but I believe they will be greatly disoppointed in the result, and will find only a change from a first-rate kingdom into a second-rate republic. (Cheers.;` Lord J. RUSSELL.—After folur nights' debate I shall attempt to do little more than seat before the committee as clearly as I can the question upon 'which they are now about to divide. They have a budget before th©m comprising pro positions of very great intportan be to the finances of the country ; and the question they have to decide is whether the advantages held out by tho se p ro p ositions are such as to or be greater than the burdens i t mt s y im p ose, and whether t. mot it is for the interest of the con utry to adopt that budget. In which has been the question of the income tax •.—a . In the first place the proposition of the Government is en I tem— having been for a long time i s i n n k r even to those most eons selected and subsists as a part of our financial sys rise to questions most e h n e s e b n l d e ea p v a o r ur lia sh m o e ul nt d be t debate, and having given because th ink it has have . followed the course Eh' I I,; n o a rr e n t t o Wl so t t h ile th come to a final recision.ethsautbiciecPeut—erPstiiwoeshnacyttilF)3drist. I the debates On th e subject that, though the g very wise and well pro position of Sir 11. Pt tel in 1842 to impose an in comeoriginal prop r torte for r e i t ti hi tU e lo y n ea o r f a the mi country, 'lt .b yet it isimpo—asibl lorenvecrivtiscleannt, to any . persons who, years now to continue the tax from three years to thee ` n l6 W ile h N ict t d irt li t b ta s ianSdh differences ,wviitthhoruetspeexcetittiongthaet e modever y i be im posed. (Hear, hear.) ' Such disemssionaend such-.:l a could not take place without clistuihinv 'i differences whole financial system— (hear, hear) —and i n( O s n s' shi o an f idee t n h gl S 1 8 42"--y tax. onr a lld yet , no Govern imi m e a l 1 seriously er i s i o n u c s e l y 184 2 contemplated no hhoeua rs ti l e. : af t r e C ita Every Chancellor of the ExcheTuer in the inte rv al o f three years has propoSed variousporseedducbtions of taut, and those haneadiodf neovtermyavkaertwye.relptrowould appear s nl o a f ra t b h 6 e r s h o o n us e e v every whodid side tions were urged. that the members when those proposi tions urge them did not believe that the income tax would ter ' minate at the - period at which by law it was fixed to ter minate. (Hear, hear.) Such being the case, my right hon. friend the Ch ance ll or of the :Exchequer' has shown the house that continuing the tax for a certain limited time —I will admit no very short per:iod—will enable the House of Commons to determine, if it shall think fit to do so, on parting with this tax. I say there is prima facie a great advantage in the budget as it stands. In the next place, it is proposed to take away one, of the most injurious du ties of Excise. Almost the only tax which remains on what may properly be called a xl ecessary of life is the tax on soap, which interferes with the comforts of the people. It is further proposed to reduce thle duty on tea from 2s. 2d. to ls., in the course of three years. It is proposed that the system of dealing with protective duties should be c arried further than it has been, and that many disputed questions, such as that relating to spirits, should be settled by legis lation in the present year. To these must be ta d e d a eft si t u nl proposal to adjust the assessed taxes, not es . t r boveryo d sumptuary principle that persons are to y / in creased number on their servaas or or horse they have. pay equally for every servant, pall- s l i t:c al ffect and groat It has been said to-molit, horses, they are to ease he be ©st to . I emphasis, that this atvivantwaieTw.coolilrld ' party, and, of course, if upon all real property, in a very -great degree,-if not mainly; upon - the 1 oir:I/hero seems, as far asi could collect the opinion of the commit tee as the debate has proceeded, some 'little misapprehen sion'. on the subject. An hon. friend of mine, the member for Wakefield, who has given in his adhesion to the project i of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, said that he did so be calve the right hon. gentleman was going to fulfil that which Mr. Pitt failed in doing; and another hon. member opposite eulogised the right hon. gentleman on the same 'accomplishing and said th a t M r . Fitt'h a d only fa i led b y O ne vo t e i n accomplishing that which the right hon.. gentleman now proposed, and which ho hoped he would succeed in accom plishing. (Hear.) Now, there is a very great error in this. Mr. Pitt never proposed any tax - upon settled pro perty of any kind. (Cheers and a laugh.) I have read the act:which Mr. Pitt broilg ht in, and if the nfitleman who laughs means to express'any incredulity on ' the subject, I wilt refer him to that act. Mr. Pitt introduce d two bills one of which i s the origin of our present legacy duties with , reference to personalty, and the other was a bill which would have extended the same system of legacy duty to landed property, which was not settled. (Hear.) Telles been alleged that it was the selfishness of the landlords then in Parliament which threw out that bill. It was nothing, of the kind. ;Nine tenths of the landlord Pyliament were possessors, as gentlemen in this house s are ' present posliessore, of settled estates, and the propositi on a of Mr. Pitt never touched them. (Hear.) l It wasthrown out on different grounds, and i ( t e r oe s rg n . laini t thrown out from the influence of Mr. Fox. was Mr. Fox whose opposition threw ont that bill, an d it wase ° h wh' op pose d it on grounds to whi c h I may hereafter advert gi-ounds which were considered sou n d an d scientific, without — doubt. The bill was thrown out by the selfishness of the land lords, and the only person s w h ose interests who were affectel ,by it were the small proprietors of En g l an d, members ofParliament, and wh ose es t a t es were not settl ed. (Hear, (Hear, hear.) This is a subject of very grave importance.. (Hear hear.) ' The right hon. gentleman th e P res i dent of the B oard of Control said, the other night, that the late Government were going to •• propose a tax on successions. Now I am sure either the memory of the right hon, gentle man must have been imperfect, or he must have spoken from inadvertence when he said this. It was the duty of the late Government, when they revised the taxation of the country; not to omit so important a subject as the duty on successions:or the legaey duty; and certainly it was our opinion that it was most imprudent to delay dealing with that question, and that it was a subject which, for a per manent settlement, ought, without unnecessary loss of time to be brought before the house. What I did say on the subject, within the recollection of right hon. friends near me—and certainly I could have intended to say' nothing more —was, that we did not think it impossible to make a proposal upon that subject which would terminate for ever the controversy, in a manner which would be recognised as perfectly satisfactory by all parties. (Hear.) And that was not a vague phrase ; that proposition was a matured pro position • and probably in the course of this discussion — though I will not trouble the house with it now—l may be • ble to submit it to the consideration of the house. But, Sir, in considering the question of a tax upon successions, it is absolutely necessary not to disguise from ourselves that it is a very important subject, and that there are many.points' to be considered before we come to a - vote upon it. "(Hear.) We must ask ourselves, in the first place, is it a just tax ? (Cheers.) Is it abstractedly a just tax? - (Hear.) Is it a politic, a just tax, a tax that can be vindicated on principle ? (Hear.) We must ask ourselves in the second place whether, if it be a tax, sound in prin ciple, it is a tax adapted to the country in which it is pro posed to be introduced ? Thirdly, we must ask ourselves what are the data which the Chancellor of the Exchequer has before him upon which he founds this estimate of its produce—(cheers)—and, above all, what is the machinery by which he means that tax to be raised ? (Hear.) These are three important points which would well deserve con sideration. For my own part, Sir—although I think that if the arrangement of Mr. Pitt had passed it would have been unwise (unless the state of our finances justified us in doing so) to disturb that arrangement—(hear)—formy own part, I believe that all taxes on successions, whatever shape they ma y t a k e , are unsoun d in princi ple. (Hear.) They are taxes on capital. (Loud cries of " Hear.") They are unsound in principle as regards personal property, but they are more unsound in principle as regards landed pro party, because they lead to partition, which, in my opi nion, is a very great evil. (Hear, hear.) But I am not going to enter int o th a t important subject now. All I say is that you cannot deny that, by proposing this tax on successions with reference to landed property, you are proposing a new tax upon the land. (Cheers.) I have shown you that in dealing with your direct taxation you have commenced a system, and you have laid down a principle, which must immensely aggregate the national taxation upon the British producer. (Hear, hear.) I have shown you, in the second place, that while you are about to pursue that unjust and injurious policy—a policy the propriety of which no man can vindicate —while jon are abrogating the pressure of indirect taxation upon the British producer, you aro inflicting upon the cultivator of the soil a direct tax in the shapoof an in come tax, and upon the possessor of the soil a direct tax in the shape of a tax upon successions. Now, Sir, I say that the whole scope of the budget of the right hon. gentle man is conceived in a spirit of injustice to the land: (Cheers.) I will not tench upon the past. I will not ask you was it politic, was it wise, or was it generous to attack the land,'both indirectly and directly, after such an im mense revolution had taken place in those laws which re gulated the , importation of foreign produce. (Loud cries of " Hear.") I will make no appeal ad misericOrdiam. What you have done, you have done. We have given our assent to it. I will not refer to the past, and upon that ground I refrain from appealing to you. But I will re mind you that the Minister who has conceived this budget —who has conceived it, as I maintain I have proved, in a spirit of injustice to the land—(hear, hear)-who is aggre gating the burden of indirect taxation to the land, and.who is proposing new direct taxes on, the cultivator and the proprietor of the soil, is the very Minister—the first Mi nister—who has come forward, and in his place in Parlia ment talked of the vast load of local taxation which real I property endures. The vast load of local taxation which real property endures ! Well, then, this is an age of com pensation—what is to be our compensation for - that ? (Hear, hear, and laughter.) I remember when I made an appeal to the sense of justice of the House of Commons on that head, I was met by two kinds of opponents. One school denied point blank that there were any burden upon real property which were peculiar to it, or which it was not bound to bear. But there was another class of opponents who took a different ground. They said—" It is very true that there is an undue burden of taxation upon real property, and upon land as the most important portion of real property, but 3rou forget you have not to pay the legacy duty." (Hear.) Why, Sir, I have shown over and over again that the legacy duty as a compensation was no eompensption for the weight, the great weight of local taxation which your Minister has mentioned. (Cheers.) But let me remind you now that wo are not only to have this great weight of local taxation acknowledged by the Government, 'but it is not to be remedied by the Govern ment—nay, more, it is not only not to be remedied by the Government, but it is to be accompanied by the very tax an exemption from which they used to say was our com pensation for those burdens. (Loud cheers.) Sir, we have lived to see very strange times. I remember when Sir R. Peel proposed his first income tax, and I remember the noble lord the leader of the house, sitting on these (the Opposition) benches , rising, and, with the traditionary spirit of Mr. Fox, denouncing the impost as Mr. Fox de nounced the legacy duties ' because the noble lord, as well as Mr. Fox, 'had seine feeling for the land of the country, and for the burdens which it had so long borne. (Cheers.) I remember how the nOble lord admonished Sir R. Peel. The noble lord could not deny there was a deficiency in the Exchequer ; but he had just left office, and knew pretty well the state of his treasury. The noble lord said there were other means of supplying the deficiency—anything but this odious, this unjust, this inequitable, this inquisi torial income tax. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The epl theta are the noble lord's, and not my own. Do anything but this, the noble lord said ; if you have a deficiency,' why don't you supply it by applying the legacy duty to land ? Well, sir, he has applie d the legacy duty to land, but he has given us the income tax too. (Cheers and laughter.) That is the fate of England. And now what is the fate of Ireland ? Sir Robert Peel did not propose an income-tax for Ireland, though he proposed one for England. Sir Robert Peel thought that there were constitutional and local grounds which should forbid him, even if he wished it, to apply the income tax to Ireland ; but he said, " must have some substitute, and that substitute shall bo a duty on spirits. The Irish shall have a duty' on spirits instead of the income tax, just as the English were to have, if the policy of the noble lord had prevailed, a legacy duty instead of an income tax ; but now England had got the legacy duty as well as the income tax, and Ireland is to have the spirit duty and the income tax too. (Cheers.) Strange fate that both countries from the Ministry of "all the talents"—(cheers and laughter)L-should receive such accumulated blessings I (Cheers repeated.) But, sir, it is not mylintention—and it would be taxing the patience of the house, as we shall have so many opportunities of enter ing upon the consideration of this great subject—to go into all the details of the budget, or even into all its main features. lam confining myself to show to you that the, budget is conceived in a spirit of hostility to the land— (hear)—and I have endeavoured to substantiate that by arguments and facts which it is open for all to consider, and if possible to confute, and without the slightest allu sion to any of those views or considerations which in for mer debates may have influenced us on the subject, I have dwelt upon them with the utmost confidence—the same respect to hon. gentlemen opposite as to those on this side of the house—all I ask is, that you will deal with those great interests as you deal with all interests, great or small, in the spirit of justice, and that if you cannot accomplish all that justice requires, you will at least show you are dealing, as regards them, with a desire to do so ; and that you will not persist in legislating in a spirit which will sour the temper and irritate the feelings of a large portion of the most valuable subjects of the realm. (Cheers.) There is now another point to 'which lam obliged to refer. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has a project for the licences of trades, which I dare say many of his supporters have heard something about. (A laugh.) Well, sir, I have received between 300 and 400 letters on the subject, and, at first, many of them being really full of useful sug,gos tions, it was my intention to have sent them to the Chan cellor of the Exchequer. But when I found that therig ht hon. gentleman, with a devotion to public affairs for oo which I had not given him credit , was in the habit of answ e rin g all his letters him self—(laughter)—l thought tat he might f have possibly misinte r p reted what was rea ll y an his f r i en dly co urteousness—(a laugh) — and that perhap s a ct would be rather disembarrassed by them. T h e g T e h n e er s a y l s t t o e n u o l of these letters may b e described in this way : of licences is infinitely worse than your house tax. I should. ay, indeed, that the major it y described it as . .t. cation of the house tax, and t he y all say they wo q uld mac oh sooner—if they must• have something—have t n ho zo b y o l u a s v e a t u r i i •x d than the system of licenses, foritimt u w s a t s be u dev a elop p e ' d shou Id house tax, and if developed, as the first step be conceded, they have got that which th. wis • hed never to obtain, and from whichtohf oeytf fiehoougtr Ba t]. re ie right hon. gentlema n had turned me out them. Well, there has been great clamour, there has bet ni great di scontent, in the country on the subject; and, n a . less I misunderstood him, the opinion of the right ho)i. ge W hear..) I on the subject is already shaken. (Hear, rsibould have supposed a Minister of Finance would rcpt have taken such a step as proposing licences for trade s a m not now giving any opinion as to the poli c y o f tho m.eak-1. sure, which is unquestionably one of the most import an t in the province of the Chancellor of the Excequer wh o co uld not have" brought forward a p ropos i tion of such'a ni t . tare without well weighing its character and consequenc e s, Such a plan is not to be t a k en up hastily ; It is a ye s 3 . od. nor, one wool .rsh • think, is it a plan to b e lightly reling grave subject. It tou c h es th e retail trade —the most te) der, the most irritable, the most lively, and the most se) 1. • sitive to anything like an attack on their finances, of an y portion of the community. The system o f li cences involve some of the wor s t mcinsequences ofdirect taxation. Somi, indeed, have propel ied it to us as a favourable substitute for the income tax.. It , appears, however, we were to hap 'c licences and incom tax too, accordin g t o the original pro , - ject of the right he us. gentleman, But there is great mu r mur of discontent. And at the very first murmur we he s r Chancellor o t he E x chequer use and mutter out Dom e - THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 3, 1853. It. : bolt the tioo te i r eci a . ;olio, 4 0Ce 'AO" o tea 11 10 . °I , i ' V 01°