The Sun. — London, England, 1822-06-13 00:00:00

\ • L ~ 1 t' . ~_~ N 0 - t) • ( 7 ,2 , NUMBER 9298.1 BRITISH INSTITUTION, PALL - MALL. THE GALLERY, with a SELECTION of m ,„ PICTURES, of the ITALIAN, SPANISH, FLE- T: l4 , and DUTCH SCHOOLS, is OPEN DAILY, from in the Morning until Six in the Evening. By Order, JOHN YOUNG, Keeper. Admis-ion Is.—Catalogue Is. EAST INDIA HOUSE, June l i, 1822. THE COURT of DIRECTORS of the UNITED COMPANY of MERCHANTS of ENG '44ND TRADING to the EAST INDIES, do hereby give Notic e , That the QUARTERLY GENERAL COURT appointed be held at this House in Leadenhall-street, on WEDNES -1,4Y NEXT, t h e 19t h I ns t an t, is made SPECIAL, for the OPose of resuming the consideration of a Bill now pend !tg in Parliament, for consolidating the several Laws relat- I ng t 0 the Private Trade with the East Indies: and also the consi deration of the propriety of concurring in the repeal of t he Law, by which Ships under the buithen of 350 Tons arc 4.1, P r esent precluded from engaging in such Trade from the United Kingdom. C: °PY of the Bill, and of the Correspondence between the c P r t of Directors and the Board of Commissioners for the Aff airs of India upon the subject of it, is open for the Per usal -4(f of the Proprietors. JOSEPH D :ART, Secretary. THE 16th of NEXT MONTH, (JULY) The T z. , GRAND SUMMER LOTTERY begins drawin and t CAPITALS must he drawn in the first Ten Mi nu tes ; nuie Ten may he gained for a Risk of Nineteen Pounds ; to ' s "Y the plan adopted, a Whole Ticket will ultimately only t ISs. and a Sixteenth only Four Shillings, as is ex r,l-led in the Schemes, which are given gratis. 4 'kets and Shares are selling by BISH , S to ck - B roker, ,;Leornhill, and 9, Cita ring Cross, London ; anti by his Agents, , Q ?. in th e last Two Months, have sold Two Prizes of 20,0001. and Thirty-6re other Capitals. P.resent P J ke of a Ticket is 211. 19s. and if returned on or V e l ore 26th26th ULY, 201. may he received back, though it may drawn a Blank, small Prize, or undrawn ; so that the 4 1i' st that can he lost i s after having had a chance'for rt ;. the Ten Capitals. which must be drawn,. and those which i, a y_liesi , cles; and the most which can be lost by a S i x teenth ' Four ; other Shares in proportion, after having I the same chance as Ole Whale Tickets. T he Scheme Contains Two of ‘3o,oou!—Two of ,E 20,000! Scc. Consols and Money. o .oi* The Prices of Stocks are affixett horly gainst BISFFS tiati ons. y s t '"ce in Coruhill, by which the Public ma y ee the flue- To be in the Downs, 7th July. FOR CALCUTTA DIRECT, ler THE Fine SHIP WOODFORD, • i t': A 1, Burthen 600 Tons, lying in the East India Export Dock, ALFRED CHAPMAN, Commander. For Freight or Passage, apply to the Com- Z 4 ndee at the Jerusalem Coffe- hou . se, or to JOHN CHAP "IN a;id Co., 9, Leaelenhall-street PARLIAMENT. 11 °USE OF LORDS, 'IA r EDNESDAY, JUNE 12. iVir • HUTCHINSON and others brought up from the Commons the Cork Market Bill, which was endtt a first ti me . 1 4 , 1 1 4 e. TRUNDLE, from the Chief Secretary's Office in Ire pill, presented ► the Third Report of the Commissioners of Irish eries.—Laid on the table. Itu h ' WALTERS, from the Court of King's Bench, and Mr. th. Lt, from th a t of Common Pleas, presented Returns from Judge s of those two Courts, pursuant to the Order of the A s l e—Laid on the table. and e Vagrant Laws Amendment Bill was read a third time 7 ,Passed. toad ",..e Warrant of Attorney's Bill went through a Committee q : , as reported. anteßecognizances Bill was read a second time. 44re Irish Deeds Registry Bill went through a Committee I, l :'as ordered to be reported to-morrow. th, Earl Sheriffs Depute Bill was read a third time and sent to by ' - 'nons after receiving some verbal amendments moved thy .LAAUDERDALE. MARRIAGE ACT. 1, 0 1 : ( rd ELLENBOROUGH had been requested by a Noble ki tt .°PPosite not to press his motion for going into a Corn.. at di -e on the Marriage Act in the absence of the Noble Earl N et e head o f t h e T rea sury. Although aware of the inconve 4:e ,_of delay in a matter of such importance as the present th dm should comply with the request, and should only move hlt e i I.t ier of the Day, for the purpose of discharging it and th a l t liit for Tuesday next, for which day he should also move Ti t i a e ‘ ir Lordships be summoned.—Agreed to. It e aansla ht r Bill went thniugh a Committee and the e Port u g e was rcceived.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. ISCELLANEOUS. th — MASON, from the East India Company, presented copies Proceedings of the Court of Directors. Ordered to lie on °e tab' Si r ' h 1- • WINNINGTON presented a Petition from certain aticretors of Hop Plantations in the counties of Worcester R ereford, praying for an abatement of the Hop Duty.— Ted to lie on the table. ,110,, r DAWSON moved that a Return of all Committals to befog es of Correction under the Game Laws should be laid AT'e the House —Ordered. Iref a r ,,*.,NOLAN 'withdrew his motion respecting Poor Laws in 0„'" , till the 27th inst. g ; ltie motion of Mr. CURWEN, a Return of the quantity he E T „1 4 imported into England, (Irish spirits excepted) and 40 1 4 . .ies paid on the same, were ordered to be laid before the Hoes' 'ALVERT moved that there should be laid before the 1 , 41 - . an account of the number of pounds weight of Tobacco 1 809 + ch Duty had been paid for Home Consumption, from the 5 4 `,?.. 18 22; and also for Accounts of Tobacco seized within Th:;,, e Period.—Ordered. tihd '"2'teport of the Caledonian Asylum Bill was brought up, Teed to. neport of th e B r okers' Regulation Bill was brought Niti ordered to be taken into consideration on Monday. ; Air A r Y,AL AND MILITARY PENSIONS BILL. 1 1 xiri l ' - PENFELL understood it to be intended that the ad ;to iiu'ebate should come on early in the evening. He NVsh- I mew whether it was intended to proceed with the Naval that Pensions Bill, as he intended to oppose one clause - `e -"len °I th t d the Bank a per centage on the manage thegane e 1 OaTIS. iiIrSHINGTON said, it was not intended ilto bring on felt , th lan night. In answer to a question from Mr. Gren hektofe 11 °ii- Gentleman added, that no alteration of the sum tlilli o , ° ,te allowed to the Bank for managing a loan (3001. per 81 11 contemplated at present.—The Committee on the Sir k?stponed till Friday. hlati n • 'E‘VPORT obtained leave to bring in a Bill for re- Ab..l„Grand Jury Presentments in Ireland. lt Per % ' 'RE presented a Petition from the Owners and Oc. 14 of Land in the Hundred of Henstead, in the County b e "r' °li r complaining of Agricultural Distress.—Ordered to ( I fh ilited r i • --° n• MEMBER th en p resen t e d a similar Petition from aY A in the same C ounty.—Ordere d to b e pr i nte d. 1‘40,,1 rE TITION FROM NORTHAMPTON. 0~~ ALTHORPE had a Petition to present from the ton --o Occupiers of L an d i n th e C ou nty of Northamp ugnt it, right to state some circumstances connected sen t d by e Meeting at which it h a d b een vo t e d. A Requisition „e l i tn lour hundred and thirteen individuals had been pre- N o w,.! - Lie High Sh er iff, request i ng him to call a meeting of tY ( )entry, and others. The High Sheriff had re. ere 11' 5 ,a• ing ne; . ;Oat/ 4 .0111 par' 00 11 - t o (A i 1 ; 6.- • 0 01 ict i(e cti ft :00 oet ?.:.„., s ci P° :0 3 ,/ _,.% ` ~~ l ~pl f , sorl' infg lit e . a 2 his .na rneY' of 00 1 te 01(4 E /./.2 fused to comply with their wish. He (Lord Althorpe) had the honour to know that Gentleman, and was sure that he had act ed from no bad motive, but he thought in this instance he had not exercised a sound discretion. The Petitioners complained of Agricultural Distress, arising from excessive taxation. They declared it would be impossible for them to continue to culti vate their lan d unless relief were afforded. They therefore prayed for a repeal of taxes to such an amout.t as should enable them to cultivate their land and exercise their industry as formerly, and they expressed an opinion that the country would nothave been in the situation in which it was at this moment, had the people been adequately represented in that House. He agreed with every word contained in the Petition, which had been signed by six or seven hundred freeholders, and thought it entitled to their serious consideration. Mr. CARTWRIGHT remarked, the case had been so fairly stated by the Noble Lord, that he had no occasion to say much. He was decidedly of opinion that Ministers ought to make every retrenchment in their power, consistent with the'dignity of the State and good faith towards the public creditor. It was true that the burdens thrown on the country by the late neces sary war were great, but he was afraid, though taxes to the amount of 4,000,0001. were taken off in the course of the pre sent Session, that even this would afford the sufferers but little relief. He was not surprised to find that between six and seven hundred freeholders had signed this Petition, as it had been sent all over the county for signatures. After all, the Petition was only that of the individuals who had signed it, and con sidering the efforts that had been made, it was remarkable that but six or seven hundred freeholders had signed it, out of four thousand, which the county contained. He wished now to say a word or two with respect to the conduct of the High Sheriff. The Noble Lord had done justice to that Gentleman's upright intentions. If there were any man free from party motives, it was the High Sheriff. Two farmers, persons certainly of great respectability, had called on the High Sheriff with the requisition. On looking over it, he perceived that it was not signed by a single Gentleman of the county. He, therefore, declined calling the Meeting ; but said, if they would bring him another requisition, with the names of any of the Nobility or Gentry attached to it, he would immediately comply with their wishes. In declining to act on the requisition first presented, he avoided all interference with the right of petitioning, as it was open for the parties to call a Meeting as they had since done, but for the High Sheriff to have called a Meeting of the Nobility and Gentry of the county, when not one of them had signed the requisition, would have been a new course of pro ceeding. Sir J. NEWPORT was of opinion the High Sheriff ought to have called a Meeting, on a requisition being forwarded to him with the names of four hundred freeholders attached to it, whether the Gentry had signed it or not. Mr. COKE spoke in support of the petition, and adverting to the course pursued by the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Cartwright) he admitted that he had a right to choose his own line of conduct, but the country had a right to do as much, and he hoped at the proper time they would remember what his conduct had been, and mark their sense of it by choosing for their Representatives those who would more honourably and independently represent them. For the country Gentlemen who had supported the Government through the late necessary war, they well deserved what they had now got. But for them the country would not now have been in its present ruined and calamitous situation. He felt no pity for them, but he lament ed the distress of the Yeomanry. Ile wished Ministers knew the real situation of the country. In that case he could not believe they would go on as they did at present. He hoped the ex ample set by the county of Norfolk would be followed, and that petitions would be sent not only from every county, but from every Hundred in every county, and if this were done it would not be in the power of a corrupt Government, or in the power of that House, to prevent the voice of the people from being heard. Mr. CARTWRIGHT begged to be allowed to say one word after the very personal attack which had been made on him.— The Hon. Gentleman was generally so much occupied with the affairs of Norfolk that he had not expected him to travel out of his course to make such an attack. Why this was done he did not know. He believed he (Mr. Coke) had spoken of him (Mr. Cartwright) and others as having contributed to the ruin of the country, by supporting Ministers through the late war. In this he differed from the Hon. Gentleman. He (Mr. Cart wright) believed that if Ministers had not been supported as they were, that the situation of the country would now have been much-worse than it was at this moment, and perhaps even that Hon. Gentleman's estate would have been less secure than it was at present. The Hon. Gentleman had hoped the County would remember him (Mr. Cartwright) on a future oc casion. He was much obliged' to the Hon. Gentleman, but when he talked of independence, as he was in the habit of doing, he (Mr. Cartwright) would tell him that he had acted as independently as the Honourable Gentleman could do. He was conscious that he had acted from as good motives, and he should not have been ashamed to meet his constituents at the meeting which they lately wished to be called, nor should he be ashamed or afraid to meet them on that occasion to which the Hon. Gentleman had alluded, though he was equally obliged to the Hon. Gentleman for his good wishes. After a few words from Mr. B. LESTER, the petition was read and ordered to be printed. Mr. CURTEIS presented petitions from several Parishes in the County of Sussex, complaining of Agricultural Distress. Ordered to be printed. Sir F. OMMANEY presented a petition from the proprie tors of London Bridge Water Works, relative to the proposed new Bridge.—Referred to a Committee. TOBACCO. Lord BELGRAVE presented a petition from certain re spectable persons connected with the tobacco manufactory at Chester, complaining of the distressed state of their trade.— This they imputed to the increased extent to which smuggling was carried on in consequence of the article being too heavily taxed. The Petitioners stated that they themselves could buy it for less, ready manufactured, than it would cost them to manufacture it. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer were to reduce the duty, which was now four shillings the pound, to two shillings, he shewed, from a series of calculations, that the Revenue, instead of suffering, would be likely to gain 25,0001. in consequence of the check which would thus be sup plied to smuggling. Mr. H. BRIGHT spoke to the extent of the evil, and sup ported the prayer of the petition, and described the arrange ments made in Holland for smuggling. A most extensive establishment was now kept up to prevent smuggling. Hereto fore it had been bad. He hoped its defects had now been cor rected ; but he was sure that the best way of checking the evil was to diminish the duty, so that smuggling shOuld no longer present such tempting profits to those who were disposed to en gage in it. Sir J. NEWPORT had endeavoured over and over again to impress upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer that smug gling could only be effectually repressed by diminishing the duty. He corroborated the statement of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, with respect to the smuggling establish ments formed by the Dutch. He was confident that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer looked into the subject, unin fluenced by the representations of those who were interested in supporting the present system, that he would see the best policy would be to reduce the duty ; and doing that, he had no doubt he would increase the revenue. Mr. H. GURNEY supported the prayer of the Petition. Mr. LUSHINGTON said, Gentlemen had spoken as if smuggling had largely increased, and as if the revenue were on the decline. Both these facts he denied. Smuggling had de creased ; and to prove that the revenue had not declined, he had only to refer to the accounts which were on the table of the House. With respect to Ireland, the duty on tobacco had considerably increased in the course of the last nine months. Lord BELGRAVE inquired if he would go back with the comparison through the last three y'ears. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted that in some instances the duty imposed might hold out a tempta tion to smuggling ; but he was far from thinking that the re peal of the duty would give to the Revenue in increased con sumption that which it would lose by such repeal. The petition was then brought up and read, and ordered to be printed. Mr. GOULBURN postponed his motion for leave to bring in a Bill to renew the Insurrection Act till the 18th inst. Mr. C. DUNDAS presented a Petition from the Parish of Noleingham in Berkshire, complaining of distress, which they considered to have been increased by the restoration of the currency. They prayed to be relieved from the burdens which were now so severely felt, and expressed an opinion that a ge neral Income Tax on actual property, accompanied by the repeal of other taxes, would be a just measure.—The Petition was ordered to be printed. The Irish Land Revenue BM was read a second time, and committed for tomorrow. THURSDAY, JUNE 13, 1822. The Committee on the Irish Constables Bill was postponed till Friday the 21st instant. Sir J. NEWPORT wished to withdraw the Irish Payment of Rent Bill, but doing so, he by no means wished to be un derstood as giving up the principle on which it was founded. He should certainly bring it forward again in a future Session. He moved that this Bill should be read a second time on that day three months.—The motion was agreed to. CURRENCY OF THE COUNTRY. The Order of the Day was then read for resuming the debate on the resumption of Cash Payments. Mr. G. BENNET, before proceeding to make the few ob servations which lie was anxious to offer to the House, begged that certain Resolutions come to by the House on the 14th May, 1811, might be read by the Clerk, in order that the House should have the subject more fully before them. [The Clerk then read from the Journals the Resolutions come to in 1811, declaring promissory notes of the Bank of England to be equal in public estimation for all lawful pur poses to a like amount in the coin of the realm, and declaring the situation of the country with respect to foreign Powers to be sufficient, in the judgment of the House, to account for the unfavourable state of the foreign exchanges and the high price of bullion.] Mr. BENNET then proceeded to explain the reasons which influenced him in giving his vote as he proposed to do in fa vour of the motion of the Hon. Gentleman. He now saw that the measure had produced much calamity, and although he was not prepared to say that he would advise that they should re trace all their steps, he was ready to say that air inquiry ought to take place in order to ascertain whether or not it was in the power of Parliament to supply a remedy. He had heard much of the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. iluskisson) on the preceding night with pleasure. No man was better ac quainted than he could be with the evils resulting from such variations of our system. But with what temper could that Right Hon. Gentleman and the Noble Marquis near him hear the remarks which had been made on the fatal consequences of tampering with the currency of a country, when they knew that they were the persons who had done this, and who had brought us to the state in which we now found ourselves. They had begun by cheating the public creditor, and now they had cheated the public debtor, so that no class in the community had escaped them. He defended his Honourable Friend's view of the past depreciation of currency. The Honourable Member then stated the prices of various commodities, in or der to shew the general depression of the currency. He con tended that the tamperings with the currency had been so many violations committed upon private property. It was to his Majesty's present Government that they owed all this. And now, after cheating all the interests of the country, came down to taunt his Hon. Friend below him, for the proposal which he had made. They talked of keeping public faith; and he desired that they should keep faith with the owners of other species of property as well as the fundholder. It was said that all private contracts were made with the knowledge of the de preciation on the part of ithose who so contracted. He knew that some 'persons understood the subject ; those who were called political economists knew it ; but the public saw a de claration of that House, which they had just now heard read, that there was no depreciation whatever.—(Hear !)—This was constantly asserted by Lord Liverpool, Lord Eldon, the Noble Lord opposite, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer. These were the names that ought to be sent forth to the people in con nexion with the calamities they now endured, until they were familiar in men's mouths like household words. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had stated correctly the fact of the alteration of the currency in the reign of William the Third, but he ought to have looked to the circumstances of the times under which that alteration was effected. The fact was that the Crown at that time was tottering on the' brow of its wearer, from the effects of the most detestable Tory faction that ever axisted. The taxes which then pressed upon the people were as nothing com pared to those which were now paid. The interest of the debt at the present time, and the current expences of one year, were greater than the sum extracted from the people during the whole of the glorious reign of William 111. The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to condemn in strong language those who supported the suspension of cash payments in 1797. He considered - the 83 millions which had been gained by the Bank Directors to have been so much pillaged from the country by the Government and the Parliament which entrusted such powers to them as the administration of the currency. With regard to those who had supported Ministers throughout the extravagant war—he did not think himself more hard-hearted than other men—but he should not be sorry to see those who had strutted into the House country Gentlemen, now feel the consequences of their conduct fall upon themselves and crawl out paupers. —(A laugh.)—He should support the measure, because he knew not which way to turn to relieve himself from the distress and confusion with which he was surrounded, and because he thought investigation might lead them to some course from which such relief might be discovered. Mr. Alderman II E'YGATE contended that the motion of the llon. Member would not pledge the House to any par ticular course of proceeding. He considered that the measure of 1819 was passed with a precipitous haste which was incom patible with the difficulty and importance of the subject. lie should therefore vote for going into a Committee to see how far they might mitigate the evils which had arisen. Ile thought the present time to be most favourable to such a re-considera tion, and they were bound to afford all the relief in their power which was safe and consistent with the public good. • Ile con demned the conduct of those who were entrusted with the execution of the measure, in departing from the plan of the Honourable Member for Portarlington, of paying in gold bars. That plan, if it had been adopted in practice as well as in theory, would have rendered the change more gradual, and consequently less violent in its effects. He thought consider able advantage would have arisen to the country if the House had not contented itself with adopting the resolution alone, and then passing by the practical measure. In voting for the motion, he certainly did not mean to say that they ought to re turn to an immediate issue of paper currency, nor did he mean to support any dishonest or fraudulent debasement of the cur rency of the realm. It was new apparent that there was a general feeling of uneasiness upon this question. It appeared by the numerous petitions upon the table, that the people attri buted their unsettled state in a great measure to this cause, tied he thought the House would not be doing its duty in refus ing investigation. He considered that they hat', for the last few years, been tinder the dominion of philosophers, whose vi sionary and theoretical propositions had bewildered all practi cal men, and it was under the influence of this clamour that the measure had been carried against the common sense of the people and of Parliament. He disclaimed all personal feeling whatever in what he had said of those Gentlemen, either there or elsewhere, and in supporting the motion of the Hon. Mem ber, he should not bind himself to any propositions that might be inconsistent with the honour or the justice of the country. Mr. H. GURNEY had no hesitation in declaring his op position to the amendment of the Right Honourable Gen tleman, because it was impossible to say how soon cir cumstances might call upon the House to annul such a Re solution. Mr. LEYCESTER supported the motion for going into a Committee. He protested against any attack upon the Divi dends or upon Mr. Peel's Bill, but he thought it ought to be followed up by economy in the public expenditure. Mr. HALDIMAND opposed the motion. He defended the conduct of the Bank, and said, that while it paid its notes in gold there could be no pretence for charging it with unfairness towards the public. Mr. RICARDO commenced by saying that he agreed with hisi Honourable Friend, that it was impossible to ascertain how far purchases of gold, made by the Bank, would be likely to affect the value of commodities. If the Bank, he would suppose, reduced its circulation to five millions, it would have the effect of making the exchange in our favour ; and then large quantities of gold would be imported. Bat during the interval the country would labour under the greatest dis tress. If the Bank had not commenced paying in cash till 1823, but had paid in bullion (of which they had a sufficient supply in 1819, till they were obliged to pay . in coin), it would have been a measure much more beneficial to the country. He considered that much of the distress now existing was owing to the improvident purchases made by the Bank. The Bank had no defence to make against the charge of having pur chased up gold. Indeed, an Hon. Member had said, that the Bank was pressed to purchase, owing to the number of forged one-pound notes. But did they not contemplate such a conse quence, even when the purchases were made ? He concurred in all the arguments of the Hon. Member for Shaftesbury as to the circulation ; but from his views on that subject, he could o n f ot th c e om m p o r t e io h n en . d Ason to what the grreostutniedtisolnie ofw otthileddivide currency,in hfeaveoounr_ ceived the Hon. Member for Essex (Mr. Western) began at the wrong end, when he said the country banks should have been compelled to pay in specie before the Bank of Eng- 2 --_-1- re---- t3v , , . , s * , 7. --:---------:-_. A + , v ..,. 2 :--=---:-. - ...----5- 0 4 ----------- - ;0-, , s‘. '''''''' '—'---• /‘lfrtirP‘'N SUN. land, which, as it possessed the power of regulating the quan tity of the circulating medium, could depreciate tie currency whenever it pleased, without any limit. While the Bank of . England possessed such a power, why should the country Banks be obliged to pay their one-pound notes in gold, which were equal in value to those of the Bank of England of the same denomination, while no such restriction was imposed upon that Bank ? Indeed he considered it impossible-- and if it were possible, most unjust, that the country banks should be obliged to pay in specie, while the great leviathan was suffered to issue as much paper as it liked. He was very unfortunate in being misunderstood as to his opinion, that gold was a proper standard. The worthy Alderman said, if gold were the index of the depreciation of the currency, his ar gument was good ; and a small sacrifice, namely, altering the value of the currency only three or four per cent., would re move the whole difficulty. He (Mr. Ricardo) would suppose a metallic circulation, and clipt about 10 per cent. Would the Hon. Alderman call this a depreciated currency ? he thought he would, because it must have have lost one-tenth of its actual value. Now, during this depreciation, it was possible that gold itself might, from several causes, increase in value, while the currency was depreciated from the cause he had just men tioned. This brought him to the 'argnments which he had used on the subject of the depreciation of the currency. He ( Mr. Ricardo) had always maintained that gold was the index of the depreciation, but never of the value of the currency. He had said that if a regular currency were to be established, it was only necessary to raise it 5 per cent., and bring it to par. The only effect which would result from this measure, would be to raise the price of commodities 5 per cent. He never meant to say there were no causes which would not operate on the value of gold. He admitted there were many causes; but these were causes to which all countries were subject as well as England ; but he maintained that the variation in the value of gold ought not to be subject now to more causes than be tbre the depreciation, or than it is subject to in other coun tries. In the same way that abundance, or scarcity, or im provements in machinery, operated on the value of com modities, so did an abundance or scarcity of gold effect its value. For instance, the new situation of South America would impede the getting gold, and consequently would considerably enhance its value in Europe. When he deli vered his opinion on the subject in 1819, he did not exclude all these possible operations on the value of gold. The Honourable Gentleman here read an extract from his own pamphlet, to show that he could have never maintained the doctrine that gold was not variable, because he stated in that pamphlet that gold was variable ; but that it was still the best standard to be adapted, because it was less variable than any other. He did not consider the question was fairly argued. It was necessary to consider the state of the currency in 1813, when under the management of merchants of the highest re spectability and character, but who were totally ignorant of the principles upon which currency should be regulated. During this period the currency was so driven backward and forward, that nobody could precisely ascertain the value of a bank note. In 1819, and even for four years before, the bank was in such a state, that it brought the currency within 5 per cent. of its real value. A fixed standard then became necessary, and they had only to choose between either adopting the standard of that day, or recurring to the old one. But aien the system was so, the currency still went on. The standard might have been then fixed at 4/. 9s. but as it was not determined to adopt that course, it was considered wiser to turn back to the old standard. He believed the country, after what it had already suffered, ought never again to be induced to alter its currency. If the Bank knew how to manage its affairs ; if it knew the principles upon which the currency ought to be regulated, it might have main tained it at par, by properly apportioning the amount of its is sue. If the Bank wished•to show they knew the principles of currency, they would have made bullion at the Mint price, and the foreign exchange would have been at par. lie did not ex actly understand what the Hon. Member for Essex meant by saying that corn was the best standard. He must have meant it either as a substitute for metallic currency, or that the ave rage price of corn would be the criterion by which to correct it.— But lie (31r. Ricardo) considered it unfit for either purpose, be cause it was liable to frequent alterations. The Hon. Member quoted 31r. Locke and Adam Smith in support of his propo sition. But what proof did these eminent writers give that such a standard would be the best ? They gave the price of corn for ten years ; and because it appeared to continue fixed for that period, decided it would be the best standard. But these writers did not see the fallacy under which they la boured, because they forgot . that money was variable, and it was only on the supposition that money was invariable, that corn could be the best standard, because if money were vari able so must corn. Indeed corn was the worst standard that could be adopted, because it must be admitted there was no commodity which within a short period was likely to vary so much. In a very populous country, a great quantity of bad land must necessarily be thrown into cultivation, from which a considerable quantity must be produced. • On this land more capital and labour must be expended, and corn therefore rise in proportion to remunerate the grower.— From that cause corn was evidently a variable measure. No discovery of new manure could be made ; no improved threshing machine could be invented, which would not tend to reduce the price of corn. here then were two causes acting in direct opposition to each other; the one to raise and the other to lower the price of corn, the result of which must be a constant variation in its value. Adam Smith founded his opinion, that corn would be the best standard on this, that a certain quantity of corn would sus tain a man for a given time ' • but this reason was applicable to other commodities also. On these grounds he contended that corn was the worst of all standards. If it were object. ed to gold, that an increased demand might give it an in creased value, and thus alter the standard, yet he answered that such increase would not not be permanent, and that gold would again come back to its proper value. Though the Bank, by purchasing 15 or 20 millions of gold, temporarily increased its value, yet no person would contend that it would not again be lowered. If the Honourable Member for Essex, in calculating during the depreciation, the price of wheat as compared with the standard of 1813, had extended his research a few years farther back, he would have seen that corn was then as variable as during the depreciation.— In 1792, the price of wheat, per quarter, was - 425. 1796 77 1798 50 1801 llB Now during the last of these three years, it was seen the price of corn more than doubled. In 1803, wheat per quarter was - - - 1565. 1810 - - - - - - 106 1814 - - - - - - 73 He would next consider flour, and it would appear it was equally fluctuating in value. In July, 1801, the price of flour at the Victualling-office at Deptford was per sack 1245. In December of the same year - - - 72 December, 1802 - - - - 52 December, 1804 - - - - 89 1809 - - - - 50 These variations in price, so far from being new difficulties, it was impossible to find any two or three years in which the prices were not equally variable—a proof of the impracticability of making corn a standard of currency. It was true that Mr. Tooke mentioned in his evidence before the Agricultural Com mittee the fall in the value of commodities; but he was ready to assign as the cause of this fall, the increased quantity of the articles in which a reduction in price took place, which com pletely agreed with his (Mr. R.'s) doctrine, that superabundance was the cause of the present distress. The Hon. Member for Essex referred to the loans, and said that they should now pay a larger quantity of wheat for these loans than they were worth when borrowed ; but he was astonished to hear a rise in the Funds ascribed to the currency. Jf so, the diminution of the quantity of money in circulation ought to lower them.— Did the Honourable Member forget, that in the American, war the three per cents. were so low as 53, and rose to 97, without any alteration in the currency ? The - Honourable Member for Shrewsbury (Mr. G. Bennet) admitted that all alterations of the currency were injurious to one party or ano ther, and the measure now proposed was not likely to quiet, but keep alive a feverish agitation in the country. The decision to which the House now came ought to set the question at rest—its discussion being attended with so much injury.— If the motion of the Hon. Member Wien expected to succeed, every man would invest his capital in land, gold, or some other commodity, and not keep it in that currency in which he expected further depreciation. The measure of 1819, he be lieved, did most injury, by the fears and alarms which it ex cited ; but now, as the country got over them, and no further depreciation was apprehended, he thought it would be a very unwise measure to repeal the Bill by which the alteration was effected. The Hon. Member for Essex said that the alteration of the currency in 1813 depreciated it 42 per cent. Now, taking the Price of gold at Si. 10s, then, And its real value at 3/. 17s. 10d. - PRICE SEyENPENCE, every 1001. was reduced to 70/., which caused a depreciation of . only 30 per cent. The Hon. Member concluded by saying that he could not understand how his Hon: Friend (Mr. Gur.: Rey), after objecting to the motion because it gave no security against recurring to the measure of 1797, couldiat the same time vote for causing an alteration in the currency.( The Hong Member then sat down amid universal cheering;:having de , dared his intention to vote against the motion.) Mr. H. GURNEY explained. . Mr. PEIRSE spoke in defence of the conduit of the Bank. They had not imported gold so much as they had'aveiled them= selves of the importations of foreign merchants., The Bank had considerably benefitted the country by circulating between nine and ten millions of sovereigns. In the year 1813, the gold was at a high price in consequence of the deniand occasioned by our foreign wars, but at the termination of the' war it had become plentiful. The Bank, however, never' cotild forte its issues; and he ventured to say that the Bank note was never depreciated as referred to the price of gold. The term depie4. - dation had been misapplied. The opinions of the Hon. Meme ber were not to be the rule for the conduct of the Bank ; though no doubt the Hon. Member was attached to his own plan for paying in bullion. Indeed the proposed lumps .of gold hod been called Ricardos.—(A laugh.) Sir F. BURDETT thought his Hon. Friend . the Member for Essex (Mr. Western) was entitled to great 'praise for 'the part he had acted in bringing forward this motion: His own mind was made up on the subject, and that being the case, his Hon. Friend was called upon to act as he had done,in spite of all the obstacles that might be thrown in his wey,'9letlie dfficule ties of the task. Looking at the exertions hp had made, 'his deed, under difficulties which presented thernseliteK to impede his progress in the course he had resolved to pu'riue ; lie Of fered an instance of the truth of the ancient seying—orenia vincit anzor patrice, in the total disregard he had manifested of difficulty in doing what he felt to be, under all' circumstances, his duty. With that feeling of the conduct of his Honourable Friend, he did think he had to complain of the Honourable Member for Portarlington in the course of observation he had . pursued, which seemed to him to hint a sort of disapproba tion of that conduct. He stated his apprehen;ions that this motion would produce a heated state of the public mind, and altogether spoke of it in a way very unlike his usual candour, and very like the uncandid mode practised by persons sitting in another part of that House. He confessed he was the more surprised at this in this Hon. Member, who, being a friend to free discussion, ought better to have appreciated the value of his Hon. Friend's manly conduct, in openly, in the face of all opposition, stating his firm conviction on any par ticular subject. The only way to meet his Hon. Friend was to shew that he was wrong in attributing the causes of that disc tress in the count y which they all saw, and which he had as scribed to the cause he had stated. The honourable Member (Mr. Ricardo) had gone into long details on the prices of corn, but it appeared to him that he had omitted to draw from those details the only conclusion which ought to have been drawn from them. If it were not the alteration of the currency which had produced the evils complained of, then it must be some other cause, and none of the cases he had quoted - relative to corn would account for the circumstances of the country. The Hon. Member impressed upon them the great distinction be twixt the depreciation and the value of money ; but to come to a full understanding with him he would put a case. He con ceived that if one-fifth of the circulating medium of a country were withdrawn, the effect would be to decrease the whole in come of the productive classes 1-4th. Then supposing the gross produce of the agriculture, manufactures, and commerce of a country to be, what he considered that of this country might be, six hundred millions, the withdrawal of one-third of the circulating medium, would be, not to affect the price, but a loss upon all the productive classes of two hundred millions. The mere matter of the money being lost was nothing ; but here were those classes, with a loss of one-third of the means, called upon to pay all burthens and debts contracted and levied during a period of great depreciation.—(Hear !)—ln his opinion, it must be productive of great destruction to the country to continue such a state of things. It was their duty then to look at this with eyes of policy as well as justice. But upon both grounds he called upon them to redeem the coun try from that pressure, which unaided, it could not do itself. With respect to the justice of the case, he need Oiely observe that every public expence, and every private contract, was made in a depreciated currency, and without. . any expec tation of the change made in the standard. - Much was said about the - immorality of altering the standard ; but those who had already done this could not ,now plead such an excuse. A parallel hed been deeeen betwixt these times and the period of King William ;. but never were times more dissimilar. At that time there were four mil lions of good lawful money in circulation, and all went on till the depreciated money was discovered. And when this took place, the Government of King William instead of 'protecting this bad currency, passed laws to punish the fraud. Besides this, they called in the currency, and took on 4,emaelves a new coinage, and received the, clipped coinage - in all e nayments to the Treasury. Was there any thing like this in e fhe present day ? On. this subject, the famous dispute between Mr. Lowndes and Mr. Locke took .place ; the former :Contending that silver had fallen in price ; and the latter, that it was the standard currency, and not the silver that was depreciated. Mr. Locke's opinion was, that it would be most unjust to alter the standard ; but we had done this twice. 'Mr. Locke contended, that both debtor and creditor should, pay in the same currency. The Hon. Member for Portarlington wanted at one time to make the pound •14s. in value ; aid that was what his Honourable Friend (Mr. Western) wanted to esta blish ; for that was about the value of the pound in depre ciated currency. Such being the situation of the country, then, called upon to perform its contracts, entered upon in a currency of altogether a different value, the •question was, whether it was not imperative upon that House, to institute some inquiry, or adopt some means of providing a remedy. The difficulty, he admitted, was great, and where to look for a remedy he knew not. (Hear, hear, froni the Mini sterial Benchss.) Ile thought those Hon. Gentleinen who were so ready with their " hears," ought to-consider that the evils complained of were brought about by them, anti that they ought to have considered, before they introduced the measure of 1819, what were likely to be the effects of it. He did not accuse the Right Hon. Secretary (Mr. Secretary Peel) with the evils produced by the Bill of 1819. He admitted that he was as innocent as the lamb devoured by the wolf, of what had been done before the bringing in of -this Bill;ewhich now operated the evils under which the country was suffering. One of the great evils of the time of -King-William was, • that men had to go to market with a double currency, and not knowing the value of their money, But then several lews'were passed against those who were engaged in the making of bad motley, and nothing like Bank. Restriction Acts. The remarkable contrast betwixt the Government of this time and Kier Wil liam's, was in the temporizing system of raising money, heed less of the consequences, and alike careless of the means, pur sued by the present Government. He hoped, therefore, they would draw no countenance from that period. With respect to the motion of his Hon. Friend, he was not bound to assent to any one proposition of his until he heard the opinions of the wisest men on the question. But he contended -that he had. acted most boldly, and most usefully in bringing the question forward. He did not see how the House cotild separate, after a great deal of useless debate, without any result upon the most important evil at present afflicting the country.. Some time ago it was the answer of the Noble Marquis opposite to the cry of distress that was raised, that it was owing to a tran sition from war to peace. That was all very well at the time. The Country Gentlemen received it as sound doctrine, and he did not mean to say that lie blamed them for so doing. It was natural to look up to those who were at the head of airs with some degree of confidence, and perhaps it was very fortunate that there was not a disposition to make sudden changes. In this apology he, of coulee, did not include those whose confidence was gained by gifts---a sort of com modity Said to blind wise men. With that natural and gene rous confidence he thought the Noble Marquis .had taken greater liberties than any other person ever did ; for he so fre quently brought forward measures without consideration, which he was himself the first to abandon.. ,But the country Gentlemen began to be undeceived when they found that this transition occupied a period of -severe or' eight years. At one time distress was attributed to the importation of foreign corn, and a Corn Bill, to remedy that, was. introdnced: But that would not do, and for the obvious reason, 'that it was rat agricultural distress' alone that prevailed, but' she distress of all the productive parts of the comm'tinity.—(lltar e . hear !) It was absurd to suppose that the manufacturers coro be in a flourishing state, and the agriculturists. Seikering.. ,Pne class was employed in raising what the other iiianufactdred, and returned to it again. The restriction upon the importation of foreign corn would be discovered to be a most unwise mea sure, and the Country Gentlemen would at last understand that a free corn trade was most consistent with their best inte-