The Sun. — London, England, 1804-02-28 00:00:00

-.44...10, i‘c • Ei tt i ve upon' the itte!a siitie rtie the ..--. that time? t h e R eport o ( yesterday precluded hope of a rapid amendment. -Th e Country w as therefore i n a most alarming state,aod upon the principle now l a id down, they might The Hou continue t o that state fol. a month, or 16 Fi n e g y er. might dissemble its feelings ; 1 might dissemble the call of duty ; but could the . . House they had the autNottlY 0 way when Men, 'that His Majesty's f 4 P o r o of n es ic sion th a is l likely to be attended tvith rapid ame ndmentindispositionwa i s .ric t. i: rorit out certainly hoped that the Physicians m i g hti that op,. toot mistaken in their opinion, . could 4 I nion was the only authority the House ; but still . t i upon. He did not know what period those .d ParreaSeisi sional Gentlemen looked to, when - they sat :, p recovery was not to be expeeled; but they c ertai n_ y meant to acquaint-the Public that they wer e .. expel a prOlo.ngation of His Majesty's present . 5 ! tuation. .Could.;Parliarnent then go on proceedlnAi upon business ;is if nothing had happened.? C'uLd. they with propriety ko• on at all ? - At all even"' be thought.that all husiness.ought to be suspen de d, With but that , which asinatn,ed.iately..necessary. regard to the- Bill .now before the House, no man ,could that - was immediately necessary, though , • be agreed‘Wiih his : Right Ha i Friend, that,the dis, cussions .cootie .e with it ,w ere bathe utmostimpOrt se.r.-• • With the opinions he entertained upon o'l6 'subjea, he certainly did not wish. to have the disems li o on -postponed . ; but' it• - was si ngu l ar t h at Mi n i sters Shuld now be M.) anxibus'to press forward the dis , oeussion after they had P° s tpond all public -bpsioesi. _ . fla e a r fortnight.; It W a s rather' iingular to observe, - . iti!e at tiililjli they.now called upon the . to proceed. tip4ll2:tisiness ; it was • exaftly the dal' 'House' after the ,PhlsictiansAtail ,ieclared.- that .t hey did n't entertain h9Pe5..0,,,(1 rapid arnetidtnent in His i \ dlN-• aesty'S health: . lie begg.ed again to lepe al the t- ,, ._ • question, at ' !liar pitiotl-did.• Ministers think - that the House ought to interfereveti4as itoneant that Parliament should,to on blind-fdlded until those • who ~ had .. been chosen .4.5. -}iiS Nate l qt..% ebtfider) -..• tial Ministers thought - fit tn- make a cation ? He could not reconcile this to ,rly i'til'"'• .C,?,,muni- • cipie of -the •Constitution to the- pta.......ce ......f P . res t of . the • liattient, or to any real regard, to, the inte Sovereign himself, There was in what ,fell froin.tlie bpon which LO h , •CH ANC EL k of-ohe. E . xcHtz r.r E It- .0 word S!iPt i n , ser y • e could. no avoiCtnaking 3 ""''' ) atkns ;,.that Right Hon. Gentleman hacl'PA.ell of the indeceney.of these disCussions. He hcgiell. leave to say that he , felt -as:much sincere attachment and veneration fur our beloved Monarch as:any man in that House; whethe r Ile, ~ vas a Conft-dential Mini - ster o'r nat. In C.,ristittnional attachment 'to the 'Sovereign all loyal men %sere equal, but there might be something more of personal attachme nt on -the Part of those who had 'personal opportunkties of vie wing and knowing the i pr,vate virtues and arniAie a n d of His Majesty,. who had the being admitted to his pre. l unQur of isametimes se i , c , i n his private _hours, and who had partaken-- of 'his favour and his bounty ----on no one of these would h e . give up to' any of His Ma %rounds j„tro Confidential Servants. But it was highly indecent in Ministers to insinuate that any aucasltte. proposed tu be adopted for the benefit of the State,. and be for the service of His MAjestyr .*.- ~ Was iodecent. Upon the whole, he was clearly of opinion that if Parliament did not, in the eircum , • . stances in which we wert placed, call for further information, afte r so long a period had elapsed after . , the infoitriation t hey' had received from the Physi, •. cians, it Would in his qinion abandon its duty, and disgrace its charaaer ;.. aril he should have retired. this night from the House with a mind dejeCied and, sorrowful, if no Member had -made this Inquirj, anti it this discussion had not take.hplace. The CIiANCELLOR of the. E.XCiIEQUER, in. . - explailation, ,said, there were tw,o points to which be must to the attetitidn Of the' House. He rose •• for the purpose of denying that he ,6,er broaqed _ ~thetinfarirre..wliith the Hon. Gentleman vvho spOke' •• last had staled. Ile, had said that the argurneO ..I . the--Hon:.Gentletnan opposite to i him (Mr. Fo r ) t. s . seemed to imply that there Ought to, be" akeayi an interference in that House whenever there was any. , suppos.ed • ;ipterruption .in the'_'reihmal, exetc4e of. • the. Authot,ity; bitehe never,. stated tha t , if there was any delay on the part part_ o { His • Ministers, ihe nowe-.was: at all ' feitered in Its di•,- •' • etetion, or that the. House might not, without an -'' • Otunniunieation -on their.- pit, instivote .atty. pro- . eteding which - the Holuse thoughr fit. The Gentleman had -.also-stated that he. . fat, Z 011) had set op• liiii,owa,opinicuk-i9. oppositiOn tO' 'llls,. Majesty's Phy.sicia,h • 's. --All, he;could .sey , on : 1..ha,.t part of the ace-usation.ag4n?.t Jilin- itas, that he. . tr i o stated-nothing as matter of „ipeculation or ori . tl,l°ll tiflhis own, but on the authority of the Physi, Cia ".• He also stated, it had been admitted that a t this time there was a susPerisiOn of- the. personal eXereise of the. Royal Author itY. lie Wished to be disc of understood here to restate, that there is not, at this time, any necessary suspension of such Royal this as it may be necessary for His Ma jesty to disclearge at the preSent moment. Mr CANNING, said, he was sincerelv glad that the Hoo. Baronet had, by hit Motion iu it proc c this discussitin,. because he was convinced thar it had produced' aS go o d an effea as if the Motion was • carried. It had produced from the CHAtacateoa of the EXCHEQUEII a declaration Whith, if he un tlerstood it right, amounted to this, that in Lase of any sudden emergency arising, there was no reason why the Royal FunCtions should nor be exercised: • this declaration tva's certainly more eonsoling to - every loyal mind, than could haVe been expe.aed. Whether it was founded or nor; it. did not become the House to doubt. With the attention of Parliament now called to the t eat of the warnings which Ministers had received that night, the' only praCtical question leetned tia. be,: whether, after the favourable in fortuatiOrt they- had received, ' they should . , by Proceeding with the discussion on the Bill IYefore the Ho we, advance' so Much the more forward to rneet His Majesty when he recovered, or whether they should now adjour n ? It did seem to him that. t'Y Pressing the Motion of Adjournment to a diva_L i ", it might he attended with bad consequence!. "e (hought the Hang Baronet ix' Healy ht in 4 106- ' l 'g that Motion, but if it was cattier), the only ton. sequences would be, that no progress would he made in this :till ; if, on the (Air hand, it was negatived, . the decision might be , assumed 'by Mitustera, as meaning more than it really did. Giving, therefore, his sincere thanks' to the Hon. Baronet for introducing this discussion, 'he coOld not avoid ,pressing most earnestly isot to press the question -to - a decision. lf he did, he should find himself obliged, for the reasons he :had stated, .to vote against the. 'Motion, . though if he thought- he . shou-hi 'by that vac be consider. ed as expressing the slightest shadow of confi idenee in a _His Majesty's Ministers o he certainly •would not giee-it. He therefore earnestly entreat. 'ed the Hon. Baronet to. withdraW•his motion, and ;thereby to spare hiM the Pain which he would feel, .if he thought there was the most remote possibility of such a, construCtioo being put upon his condua.. GREY said, he did not propose to prolong this discussion a he rose merely for -.the ; purpose of ;obtaining an explanation of an expression which. had fallen- from the CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER, : which appeared ,to him to he rather of an ambiguous naamee. He 'felt,: in common with every a other Member of .thea House, extremely, rejoiced at, the statement they had received of the improved state of His 'Majesty's health, box his pleasure was very much .damped by hearing him alter stating, that " there Was not at this moment a necessary suspero. Sion of the Royal Authority,". 'add, '' not with re : gard to sttch font - lions as ;lily peculiar emergency tuight render necessary,' . ' . lie should be glad to, hear the Right Hon. Gentleman repeat his declara-• tion in a in oe enlarged and unambiguous manner : because thare.could be nothing more dangerous, than to haveitsta red.and acted upon that His Majesty was capable of discharging some of his royal functions. anal rot .Of others. , The declaration of the Mini ' ster, if it meant . any thing, must mean that the Royal capacity VlVas in full vigoiir, or else dreadful indeed would be the .respoo , ibility of Ministers. aHe hoped, therefore, the 'Right Finn. Gentleman would:folly .ekplaita his meaning, or else the }tithe would' not feel so much pleasure in the declaration artheiMiniater as they at first might be disposed to. tech. The assurance .of the Right Hon, Gentleman have been ,more complete if he had stated that .iVlini - aters . were enabled.as usual to receive his Ma jastyas 'commands, and that they spoke from their : own knowledge and not from the opinion.olothers. He. would , keep his word" with the House, and. not. enter .into any detail. upon the subjea,• but would wait for the answej of the Right Hon. Gentlemon. . The -CHANCELLOR of the EXC/IL:QUisR said, the Hon. Gentleman had not correaly under stood the expression he had used ; the tract he meant to..caanvey - wits this, that THERF, WAS NOT AT THIS TIiVIE A- NECESSARY' SUSPENSION. OF THE EXERCISE OF :THE ROYAL AU. THORITY. Si, ROBERT L AW LEY rose toots - sure the House that it was not from any motives of impatience that he brought forward this Motion it was because he considered Parliament to' be placedin a most Uncon stitutional situation.; It Was atifllitted‘oll all sides that' the present crisis was -a most alarming one, and that the alarm was increased by the danger which threatened His Majesty ; and upolythesegrounds he had provoked this discussion, and he left it 'to the House to determine whether it squid or would not - establish some mode or limitin g the responsibility of Ministers. He was far front wishing to prodke . any indelicate discussion, and if it was the senst.of the House that he ought to withdraw his Notion,' he had no objeClion to do it ; but he thought Par liament was not doing its duty when it left the Country for fifteen days without information upon such a subject, and at such a period as the present: ;lir. GRENVILLE. sold, the explanation given by the Right Hon. Gentleman to a questi m put to, him by an. Honourable Gentleman .(Mt. Gar y), was so far from satisfying him, that it only, made the declaration 'more ambiguous ; and he thought he, shonld not do his duty if he suffered an observation • s o, explained to pass - without notice. The distin& words which he Understood the Right Hon. Gentle ttao : to use, 'when he first alluded to this most an. xious and important sobjed, were, that there was not anecessary suspen s i on the Royal Au. rhr presen t o;ity. f any4rnj'(* aft. which was necessary to be done. Now,_ he would leave it to the House to determine, whrthetathis did not mean, that the CHANCELLOR 'of the EXC HEQUER thought himself competent to decide what were the acts to w hi c h i t was necessary that the. Royal Authority should be applied. He wished to know if he had mistaken the sense oldie -Right Hon. Gentleman's words ? (Mr. ADDINGTON ,Said " Yes") : if he had, he should be very glad to , be .corrected. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER .said, he should have thought that the answer which he gave to 'an .Hon. Gentleman opposite to him; would have precluded the obserVation of the Hon. Gentleman who just .sat down. Mr. GRENFILLE, said, he'really did not know whether other Gentlemen were in the same situa 4ion .that he was, but it appeared to him that .every word. which was gilt:ea. by, way of. explanation, had . only the effect of ,renderi ng the suhjel still more' Clouded and obscure, with a view, as he supposed, to divert the attention of the House from the real 6 übjett. Without, pursuing this part of the subjea any farther, he Wished shortly to advert to some other points which had - occurred in the debate. He perfedly agreed with his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. W t_tioxAtt) that according to the theory of the Con stitution, when thecapacity for exercising the Royal Fun6ions had ceased, at that moment Parliament ought to be informed of the circumstance, not:for the purpose of immediately proceeding to adopt some- arrangement, but to enable Parliament to decide whether it ought or ought not to take any immediate steps upon the subject or not. It by no means fol lowed_ that Parliament was bound to adopt some pro ceeding immediately urgn a communication being. made, because he could easily conceive many cases in which the discretion• of Parliament would be pro. perly applied in postponing the adopting of any measures ; but Parliament being _ooce informed, should hold in its own hands the choice of the time and mome nt when any. measure should be taken. Wsliat discretion should not• remain in the hands of these whia were the King's Servants when the Royal Fundions were in full exercise. A very general but erroneous opinion prevailed both within doors and witli6ut that clic consequence of a rroie r , Comriau, •nication tO.Pailiantiat must tbe adopt:on . of some -arrangement upon . the tubjeet : ,to this he could by `no means agree for the reasons he had be fore 'stated., Wilco he spike of a proper Comranni. , cation, he did not mean one froM those who called theMselves His M stjest y's Confidential SerVac ts, but from .the Privy CoUncil after they had examined the subject. This would prove an additional defence against the operation of any improper motives, not that. he meantio insinuate any motives of that kind in His Majes,ty's Ministers,, hot, the jealousy expressed ,was, founded upon Constitutional_prin. ciples,. After such a Cominuoication had been tn,.de from the, Privy Council, it wptild then remain for , Parliament to decide 'how they were to. at% He dwelt so long upon this subjeCt, -- because it appeared to hire ormof,-the greatest importance. • Whence did ;Ile Ministers their information 1. From the Medical Gentletnen, and he should be• glad to a , lc what reasons there 'woe why the Commoos of Eugland.shotdd take that, iolormation.from Mini sters- which, they might, have from the Physicians 'themselves ? . What:was -the ptakice of the .House upon ordinary cases ? In the instance which 'most naturally occurred to him, viz. that, of an Eiedion Committee, if a Member was ill, a Modica! Gentle. man was examined at the Bar ; if he stated that the Member was .so ill as not to be able to attend the Committee, he wits , 4ischarged altogether from his attendance if his illness was ',likely to be of short duration, the Committee wits postponed. for a day. This might, appear a. trifling comparison, hut' he, saw no reason why they should he su strid •upon small occasions, and be inattentive upon those of greater importance.. Uponthe whole -•then, ! it Was his . opinion that this ought not to be: consi. dered as a .question- of confidence in Ministers, and that it was the duty of Parliainent to be in formed of the state of tie .King's health from the best authority,. viz. from the Physicians who at'. tended_liis Majesty. Would not the . Country be better satisfied with regard 'to its situation if it. salt , Parliament properly and duly informed and exercis ing its own judgment ' upon the subject, and dis, charging- tho,,t: fun6tions. hick their duty 'and the safety. of the State req4r'e,; t:,ern to perform The question f Picij Inpment 'was then init. and negatived without a di, isinn. ~ • • • • VW.UN The 'cittrition , wali then put 9n the second, reading of the. Voiumcei Biili Afr..T. GRE:,‘'VILLE aniMalverteci at consider able length on -the Correspotacleacc.. re_lative ,to the Volunteer .SYsteni, in whiesli'he pointed out several incongruities in the co:hind cf •Mini;,:ers with te speef to the Volunteers. Lard 0 i'Bl - 8.-.STDN spoke also' at considerable leng 1, hut in so . low a tone of . voice that we could not catch the train of his argupent. Mr. Secretary YORKE replied in detail • to the observations of Mr. 'l'. Grenville. In the course of his Speech .he adverted to the quancity l of Arms in store at different periods, and the quantity de . . livered out since the commencement of the present NITUr, which he stated as follows': Musquets in Store. _ _ 1755 - 36,04 1 77.; - - - - 9 8 44 88 1343 - - 94,7 86 - - • - - 92,131 1 793 - - . 53,0 2 . • 480 3 - - - 3 2 9. 2 44 Number of Mus'quets delivered out. l the first three months 7 1803 - 101,034 Up to the 27th Feb. 1804 . And a great number of Pistols and other Arms. Of these at7,r96 - had been delivered to the *Vo lunteers of Great Britain, and I 8 2,05 t to the' Vo. luntiers of Ireland. About 25,000 Musquets had been provided by the Volunteers themselves. To , prove the advaorages in point of recruiting derived to the Regular Army from the Volunteer Carps, he stated that, from. the St. George's - Corps in the Metropolis, from the s ith of March 1795, to the 31st of FiCcember t 801, 337 mil had entered into ' the Regular Regiments. That,Corp's did not con sist of more than 60t men, and of 'about the same number now. , It had, •dtrriog the present War, given 40 to the Regiments of the Line. He also stat. cd that out of A Regiment at Norwich, consisting of not more than 300, 25 had'entered into the Line. Mr. PITT said, he should nbt have been anxi oos to have taken any part in the present dis k had agreed wi t h hiS Ri g h t H on . F r i en d c (m uss r i . or T i i . f PsviLLs) 'that such discussion ought to be confined within the narrow limits of ake Bill before the 'House, On the contrary, he was of opinion tliat it Was - Perlealy natural and consistent, not Merely to discuss the present Bill, but,also to .consider the Volunteer system ; they were to con -sider likewise how' far that' sysem Was adequate or defedive, and how far it might be brought in aid of other measures of defence. It -was their duty to consider what defeZ,is there were to he remedied in that system, and what remained to be done to render as effeCtual as possible our whole plan of defence, in order that we might be enabled to meet that great crisis Which had been long hanging over our heads, and which now seemed tube rapidly approaching. It ' was also material that they shuld.consider how far that plan might be rendered permanent as a system, not merely calculated totneet the first moments ofdan ger, but how long it might be rekoered coeval with the duration of the contest in which we were now e n gaged. They must study the most effednal Means of prosecuting that contest until it arrived at a ter mination •fir different• to that conclusion Which closed the late War Nar ought the discussion to. stop there; and here he agreed, that it was not pos sible,to decide upon a whole system irra diScussion n mere details, when they must blend the consi deration of the Volunteer -Syte,in with that of how far it was connected with other points of our force. It was not his' intention to trespass 'upon the time of the House at that late hour, parti . cularly upon matters of detail,• which would more properly come before the Xommittee ; 'but he still thought it necessary to give a general view of the subjett, in'order that- other Gentlenien might turn his ideas in their mind, and thus come better prepared to decide upon them in the eornmittee.— Thu were, above all, to consider what further aids were, necessary, for our.safety-upon the present occa. sion ; and also, whether the system now adopted, with.all the necessary amendments, might not be continued for years to come; and whether they Might by mean o,- of it create a new era, anti through the medium of a happy combination of force; for ever lay asleep that danger witla which the despot, of the present tithes theaatened the world o He did not, thetefore, over-rate the question,,when he said, that they sivere to discuss how far the spirit and the pa_ triotism of the Country might be raore effedually di rected to its objea, and better secured to its porpose; They were .not then to discuss whether a Volun.' tear Force was necessary or not at the present mo ment, for that pOlot had been already decided. He knew there were som e wh o diff ere d as to t h e m od e of aratoilii which ought to. have been adopted with resped to the . Volmiteers, and also as to their use; but;the question for the consideration' of Govern_ . men r, and of Parliament, was, how a sufficient Force could. he provided calculated to. meet the impending danger ? Regular Forte could not he kept up - inn sufficient numbers .; the only remaining measure to obtain a Volunteer Force, or if that failed, compel, led .Iseviea.pf the .same destription, hut who might not be takeo. wholly ..away from .their avoca., tiona. Whatever..difference of opinion might prevail as to .a Volunteer Force, he, thought no man would ~say, that this moment of imminent danger was the precise period in whiCh , they should bet obout thocircuitous and difficult process of changing the nature . ; of the . Volunteer. System. Whatever might be the opinion, of, the Right Hon. Gentle. man (Mr. Gaaaavo o or) or of hi,s.Right Hon. Friend (kir. W t ?HAM), or of other HonoNlembers, upon -that system, he could ~not ,stippose, when, in the • course-of aJew weeks, we might have to encounter the most:forooidable attack that ,could be made by, all tilt lavish .power of despotism,. and the most desperate that could be didated oy uncontioulect passion, that- they would think this the moment la consider „what was to-be done for futurity, instead of how they. were to provide- for- immediate sea entity. It._ was now too. late to ask .what difference. itt , the system 'would have rendered .{e moreeffaaqual; they had prbceeded ascertain way on the road, acid if they had not gone far enough, was it . noti 'better to 'quicken their pace than to tread - back. their steps, and enter upon a new system •plan of defence I 'ln aiming at a general ,and complete Force, -His' Majesty's. Mini. stern ought not to let any, narrow economy scold in t hewayolrender log that force as efficient as possible, during the shOrrspace *Well yet remained before the attack might be commenced: He did not mean to say, Islam- he' spoke in.allusion to the- Enemy, however he. might think . that - our means of de. fence—fell , far shim of . what 'might have been done, and that ether additional measures. might have been resorted to—he did notamean. to soy that he 'dreaded the result .of such s a contest ; but he was sure the House would not. be flattered by being told; that in a' conflict -in whiCh Englishmen were fighting for every thing that was dear to them, it was 'enough to say that we' had the means of finally obtaining victory. The-Goverritnent and the Parliament were not merely to look to the means of finally obtaining victory, but to the means of ioflid ingspeedy vengeance upon that inordinate ambition which was now so extravagantly direded against Great Britain, :at. a time - when nearly the rest of Europe were in -an- abjea and prostrate state, and whenarthallenge - was audaciously given to sts, that we could not meet France single (lauded. They ought 's° make the result of such a contest an example to their posterity ; they were not merely to look to the final issue, but it, was their duty to omit , no means which could- save one squate mils of territory or one individual. It was not merely that they were to rely upon the spirit of English_ men ; but the lives and blood of those who had step. ped forward in the defence of their. Country, were a sacred trust reposed in their hands, and if it should happen that thativalurible blood should be sacrificed which might otherwise be. saved, they would be deeply answerable. He therefore hoped he should not be Considered as pushing. his ideas too far, when he called for these measures which might render as effedual as possible that force. to which we must in a great' measure trust at the present moment. He should consequently suggest in the Committee on this Bill, whatever ,appeared to him to be neces sary for the benefit of the Coontry, and though he felt the great, disadvantages which resulted from measures being originated by those who were not in Official.. Situations, it yet became the duty of every one at a crisis like the ,pre sent, to state his ideas upon the subjed. With respell: to the Volunteer Force in'general, he mutt 'say, that he thought it in some measure inadequate, b ecause there was not sufficient time. allowed in ex ercise,. to render -it effedual ; that there was not sufficient means of instrudion provided, and that there were not sufficient regulations for the main. :tenance : Oil,gdod order, and discipline. As to time, it having been laid down, that the Volunteers- were to acquire ° the same species of discipline as the Re. gulars, he maintained, that twenty. days exercise ,Collettively, was inadequate to answer that purpose ; It was unnecessary to argue this—for who could sup pose,- that ;four or. five hours attendance at different times, WithMit any regulations to enforce .that attendance, or even attendance duriog exercise, could enable a - Volunteer to acquire his necessary discipline ? Fit knew that this had been made an iThjedion 'tilt-Ist the system altogether, but the rime miisrhe'enlarged to render that system effec. tivea It however, 'necessary that sonaething Should bedbne in that tesped during the short time that probably - rem.ained before the ,attack was made upon us, and that the Voltinteers should be imme. diately invited to assemble on permanent duty, for the purposeof making - that profiCiency in discipline whiCh was sThl wanting.' The spirit which :actuated that patriotic body of men was apt to become unbent and relaxed for want of some stimulus to animate it, but he was Sure if Parliament appealed to them uporathe present occasion, to comeforward to peffed thethselves in that state of disdipline of which they stood in need, that such an appeal would have all the desired effect upon British minds. It might pro, • Willy be advisable to hold out a moderate bounty to induce them to assemble, and perhaps a bounty of seven shillings to those who agreed to assemble on permanent duty for three weeks, or for not less than one week, might has e the desired effed. From this, however, he excepted the -troops of the me tropolis., but not at the same time wholly excluding them, By this measure more would be done in that