The Sun. — London, England, 1845-07-22 00:00:00

tlenan concluded by moving that this linti , e regards with 1 regret and apprehension the state of affors it New Zealand ; and that those feelings are greatly ageraveted bs the walet of any sufficiernt evidence of a change io the penes' which has led to such disastrous results. The Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst continued cheering. Mr. WARD seconded the motien. Mr. G. W. HOPE said he would first address himself, in replying to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, to the personal matter contained in this question. He felt now, as on for mer occasions, that Lord Stanley had, from the beginning to the end of this matter. been much aspersed. The first charge brought against his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley) by the Hon. and Learned Member (Mr. C. Buller) was, that of not submitting the instructions to the New Zealand Company which had been dispatched to the colony nit the 7th of June. In reply to this he might say that the minutes on which the instructions to the colony were based had been submitted to a private meeting of gentlemen connected with the Company, and they were agreed to by them. The dispatches were founded on these minutes, and the charge of bad faith in reference to this matter was therefore entirely unfounded. ishithiog was kept back or hell private from the deputation of gentlemen who had applied to the Colonial-office for information ou the subject. This explanation he deemed quite satisfaeto -y, and ho should be surprised, if any member of the deputati eie could be found who would deny the statement of what took planer. There was one Gentleman present, who was a member of that deputa tion, and who would much astenish him ( Alr. Hope) if he denied the truth of this.—( Hear, hear.) He had now dis posed of this, one of the greatest charges against his Noble Friend. And what did these deputations, of which so much was said, advise? They advised that a kind and cordial spirit should be manifested in all transactions with the natives, con sistent with the interests of the colony. The lion. Member here read an extract from the instructions to Captain Fitzroy, to the effect that there should be, as far a- practicable, an amicable settlement of all points pending between the natives and the New Zealand Company, and that he (the Governor) should prevent anything like exorbitant demands, either on the part of the Company or the native chiefs. There had been no deceit, therefore, manifested here. Mr. C. BULLER—I did not say deceit. I said we had been kept in the dark. Mr. HOPE—The Hon. and Learned Member says he did not charge his Noble Friend with deceit, he only charged him with keeping the Company in the dark regarding these in structions. That this was not the case he thought he had al ready shown the House—( Hear, hear)—though. on this point, his Noble Friend had suffered attack and obi ,guy as if he had done something highly derogatory to the interests and privi liges of the Company.—( Cheers. ) He could further pint to the instructions given to the Comeany by the Government, as showing that there had been a de-ire to meet the bona fide claims of the Company, as far as it was consistent with the obli gations and honour of the country. '1 he Hon. and Learned Member only read a portion of the instructions to the House, to which he objected. He did trot read that which referred to what he (Mr. Hope) had just adduced. He would, therefore, read that portion of the instructions, to show the House that they bore out the construction he had put upon them. The Hon. Gentleman read a passage from she instructions recommending that it was necess try that effec tual steps should be taken to settle amicably the claims of the Company consistently with the rights of the natives.—( Hear.) Before those instructions were disptitched to the colony a depu tation waited upon his Noble Friend, and he (Lord Stanley) made no hesitation in communicating the nature of the dis patch. Yet he was charged with keeping back information—a charge which he must say was most unjust.—( Hear, hear.) Complaint had been made by the Company on an award being recommended that its acceptance would place them in a worse position than otherwise, with regard to the natives. In 1843 this was the course resolved on. It was then, in instructions Dent out to Capt. Fitzroy, stated that he should co-operate with the agents of the Company in arranging with the natives about the sale of lands. In accordance with those instructions Capt. Staines was appointed as Commissioner ; and he would read a portion of a dispatch of the 19th of July, on the result of this appointment. The extract read by the Hon. Member was to the effect that in every arrangement about the lands with the natives, the Company, in every case in which there was any doubt about title, should have sufficient compensation for all improvements that had been effected.--( Hear, hear.) The Commissioners acted in the spirit of this instruc tion, and proceeded to award fairly between th e natives and the Company, the Government considering that this was the course best calculated to settle these unfortunate differences. The Hon. and Learned Member, in describing the state of the colony, quoted entirely from a letter of Mr. Cowley, but had not referred to other important letters and communications that had reached this country. He had not referred to the letters of Lloyd's agents and others, who had at least equal means of information. He had limited himself to the com munication of one man, in order to draw a frightful picture.— ( Hear, hear.) And what he had read was more calculated to show the character of the settlers in the north and north-west of the colony, than to prove that there was any great danger. Sailors and the youths that had been sent out from ParkhurstPe nitentiary had been represented as exciting disorder in the colony, but in these statements he believed there was no little exagge ration in what had been said about the subordination of these parties, and employed to excite sympathy, and to spread alarm as to the con lition of the colony. These youths from Park hurst, of which complaint had been made. had been placed in that penitentiary in order to reclaim them from their bad habits, and they Were sent out there, as it was not considered safe to turn them nut loose here, in order to give them a chance of escaping bad habits. That very day his Noble Friend had received dis patches from Auckland, dated the 25th, and stating that disaf fection only extended to a portion of the tribes, and that there was strong hope that all the difficulties would pass over without any serious commotions. A letter had also been received which stated that since the last instructions from the colony the North Star had arrived with 200 men, which arrival hail done much to calm the minds of the settlers, and that the news from the disturbed districts represented matters as much quieter than they were. This dispatch was from no agent of the Govern ment, but from a gentleman who stated in a very independent 'nastier what he saw. But the Hon. and Learned Member says that his latest date from New Zealand is of the 28th ; now he (Mr. Hope) had information a day later. In a news paper, published there on the 29th, which he had received, it was stated that the 200 troops had arrived in the North Star steam-packet, accompanied by six field pieces; that the forts had been placed in a proper state of defence ; that block-houses had been erected, and every step taken to place the settlement in a proper state of defence.--(Hear, hear.) It was further stated that there was an improved feeling of security in the colony, and that the natives had made no further opposition. He would state this to the House, in opposition to Mr. Cor mack's statement, which had been adduced by the Hon. and Learned Member. But it was said that, in furthering and pro- tecting the interests of Auckland. they had neglected Wellington. This was not true, for as soon as the troops arrived from Sydney a portion were immediately sent off to Weilnetoii, in order to protect the interests of that settlement. It was not right, therefore, to charge the Government with culp dale neglect. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman co:nplaiaed of the military ,! force placed at the disposal of New Zealand. Why, when the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London was at the head of the Colonial Department, and application was made to him for a military force for the colony, a hundred men was the total force allowed them; and when the colonists complained that the force was too little, they were told they couldhe sup plied with no more. Lord J. RUSSELL—At that time. Mr. HOPE—The military force had since averaged from 150 to 290 men. The available force in the Australian colo nies altogether had formerly been 1,609. In 1843. it was 2,400 ; and now there would be an available force of 4,000 men ; that was, whenever the regiinents on their progress from India and this country had arrived there. This, he believed, was a competent force to maintain the authority of the Queen in the colony; and to defend the settlers in the islands from the attacks of the natives. There was, however, no proof that any confederation of the natives would take place—that they would unite against the settlers and require any great demonstration of military power. The native tribes had never yet united, nor, in his opinion, would they do so, unless something was done to give them strong cause to com bine their interests and sympathies in a combined system. This brought him to the point that the acts of the natives had re sulted from the policy of the Government ; that the disaffec tion in the colony was to attributed to this al ,tie. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had quoted Mr. Busby in support of this opinion, and yet that gentleman. in another port inn of this statement, attributed the difficulties which had arisen to the disposition of the natives to deny the sovereignty of this country, and to overthrow the authority of her Maje-ty. It was said that Captain Fitzroy had been supported by his Noble Friend, each as no Governor was ever supported. New he wanted to know the authority for such a statement. was not the case. So far from its being so, he had been called into question on many material points. On his financial procesdings, in the sale of lands, in the raising of the militia, in the expenses of his Go vernment, and in forming laws ny his enuileil in a hurried and unsatisfactory manner,—on all these points he had been called in question. With regard to Mr. Shoulbread, his secretary, to w hom reference had been made, he had, no doubt, beers charged with malversation in his office ; but he was bound to state . that upon an investigation taking place there were ne grounds for the charge. Mr. Shoulbread resigned his office, as Captain Fitzroy had expressed himself that lie hail no confidence in him, yet he (Mr. Hope) must say he saw no reason whatever for this course. It was herd that a gentleman' , prospects in life should be ruined upon a mere sutpicion, which was not founded in truth, and he had recently been appointed to the Governorship in the West Indies. The Honour able and Learned Member next complained of the place where the capital had been fixed. In answer to that he might refer to instructions sent out by the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London ( Lord John Russell) to Captain Hob son. Captain Holison was instructed to fix the capital in the territory belonging to the Government, and not in that of the Company. The Hon. Member then reed an ex:net from the instructions in question to that effect. It 'Niro clear, therefore, that Captain Hobson went out with instructions to fix the capital in Government land. Auckland ices in c msequence selected, and he was bound to say it was the best that could be selected, for the purposes of trade and commerce. To abandon that, as had been proposed, would have been, in his opinion, a most fatal and ruinous course. The municipal institutions had also been referred to, and complaints had been ,„,d, th a t they were not assimilated to those of England. This was never intended. The municipal dis tricts were tracts of country mapped out for the purposes of colonial Government, and had no analogy to such institutions as those that went by the same namo in England. The Hon. Gentleman then briefle referred to the charge against the Government of imposieg a tax upon the Company's settlers, and justified the course which had been taken in that matter by reference to what had been done in Canada under similar . This, however, he considered h ad been full y met in circumstances the previous debate, without his going further into the objection at present. It had been shown ,h that there been no breach of honesty and good fait tovvards the colony or the New Zealand Company by the Government.. There was one other matter, to which the Hon. and Learned Member referred, and or' which the Hoe. M.. fiber for Lam beth seemed to lay considerable emphasis on a previeue occa sion—he meant the vote given by himself (Mr. Hope) in the ti 7 ommittee of 1840. The question, as it seemed to have some importance attached to it, he should be happy to refer to. It was, whether it was a wise course to recourse the indepen dence of New Zealand? and he was of tho same opinion now, for he thought it a most unwise course. But rise.v the Hen. Gentleman turned round, and said, y en are inconsistent, you supported the independence of New Zealand then, and why turn round now, and advocate a different policy ? He could only repeat, that he was still of the same opinion, but that independence having been arenewledged, it would now be still snore unwise to adopt a different system. He now came to the conclueion of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's address, and what the Hon. and Learned Member di s ti ngu i-h e d as "ring dropping." Those words might be used in a very extended sense —( Laughter )—and he believed that thellon. and Learned Member meant as much by them, namely, to ob tain for the Company itself the land they wished to become en tiled to. That was the principle of the policy which alerts pressed upon them, and yet the Hon. and Learned Member said, strangely enough, that no change of policy had occurred. He ( Mr. }lope) would say this, that if the Government were in error in the policy they had adopted, they had to blame the po licy of the Noble Lord the Member for London, who had pre. ceded them.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL —The instructions to the Governor were different. Mr. HOPE—The Noble Lord said the instructions were different. He would not, then, go into the instructions given by the Noble Lord, but if it were necessary to do so, he should be enabled to show that his policy went to the very principle that the natives had a right in the land, and that the Crown had no right to dispossess them of it. If Hon. Members would THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAI EVENING, JULY 22,_ 1845. - _ take tl.e trouble to examine the minutes of the reports on New part of the Crown lands had authorised such steps to be taken South Wales of that period, they would find abundant evi- !as would validate the purchase of the lands. He would not dente of the results of the change of policy referred to by the i fatigue the House by reading letters which showed that th lion. and Learned Gentleman. The Noble Lord, i:e Member i New Zealand Company hail agreed to make their purchases of for Suuderland, had once referred with considerab force to a I lands for a considerable sum—not 50..4.—but for a considerable speech of Sir George Gipps, who was considered,l.y a majority j stun ; and if this deposit was to be made, how was this claim to of the Committee, a person whose opinion on this übject might be satisfied ? and he thought that it was quite contrary to the be desirable. He was applied to by Capt. F. roy, and he J principle of this agreement that the New Zealand Coin (Mr Hope) would read the evidence of Sir George I pony should take this land first under their original lipns. ( The Hon. Gentleman then read the extract.) It right, and secondly on the principle of national law. was stated that this (the sovereignty) was one of the causes Now, what did the Noble Lord the Member for London say to that would unite the natives against the Government. It was this subject? Why, he said that he would guarantee any grant certain that it now created great discontent, and if they adopted to which a superior title was not shown. It was, therefore, a different line of policy—a policy inconsistent with that pre- rather too much to say that the New Zealand Company's views viously pursued—it would only bring ruin upon their interests had not been carried out to the extent which they themselves in that country. had laid down. It had been suggested that the Noble Lord had Mr. ROEBUCK said that as he had had some share in not kept faith with the Company, because he had not fulfilled drawing up the report of the Committee on this subject, he . good faith in the award of the 1 8th May. Now, what was the should wish, and he trusted to be pardoned if he addressed a I fact ? The Noble Lord had determined that the title to these few words to the House. It seemed to him, that when they I lands should be shown by the possession of the natives. A considered the mode in which that unfortunate country was Commissioner had accordingly been appointed to investigate connected with this, a mode of connexion equally injurious to the titles of the natives to the several districts, for which he New Zealand and to Great Britain, the evils which oppressed was responsible. When, therefore, the Commissioner had in- it would be found to have hail their origin in the conduct pur- vestigated this award, there was to be a subsequent agreement, sued by the Government in all time to that country. When on which the title of the New Zealand Company was to be Captain Cooke was sent out to make discoveriea, he took based. He would venture on no further explanation, because possession of this island in the name and•on the part of Great he thought that it was unnecessary. He had shown the nature Britain. He was an authorised person ; because it might be of the treaty of Wait angai, he had shown the nature of the de laid down as an important doctrine, that no one, except a per- gree of civilisation to which the natives had advanced, and he son specially instructed by Great Britain, could usurp such a had shown that it was a treaty into which the agent of the New right in the name of that country. He thought it necessary Zealand Company had solemnly entered, which had been gua to put this on the broad principle before proceeding with his ranteed by the Government, and for which the previous Go case. Well, Captain Cooke went and discovered New Zea- vernment was responsible. land, and Great Britain then acquired what might be termed Mr. L ABOUC HERE denied that this was a question be an imperfect right, which, however, by subsequent acts might tween the Government and the New Zealand Company. It have been perfected. Afterwards they lost possession of it, be- was the duty of this House to inquire what was the policy of the cause no one, retaining authority from this country, was left in Government with which, as Secretary of the colonies, he was the island. It was true that certain runaways from New South connected. He did remember the anxious desire of Lord Nor- Wales went and resided there from time to time. It manby—an anxiety in which he had most deeply participated— was true that mariners called there, who attended the whale that the inferior race should not be crushed by the superior fisheries, and certain missionaries went there for the purpose of rase, and he was prepared to say that nothing had been more labouring in the vineyard, and there they also fixed their tern- opposed to the policy of the Government of which Lnrd Nor porary residence. None of these acquired a foot of ground, and manhy was a member, than to violate the terms of the treaty New Zealand still remained unpossessed. And why? Because of Waitangai. He would contend that it was owing to the the right of Great Britain to the country had not been per- documents which the Government had put upon the table that fected. But Great Britain, not only not contented with this had caused a l l t he confusion and misfortunes of New Zealand. virtual cession of the island, publicly declared it to be without He found by the dispatches of Lord Stanley that the instructions her territories. Thus it was clear that if any foreign nation of Lord Stanley were contrary to the instructions of that had stepped in, as they had not perfected their right of dis - House. If it was the wish of the House to conciliate in that covery, Great Britain would have been obliged to succumb, country they would have adopted a very different course of because she had made no declaration of her right. But she might policy. He did think the same course of justice and fairness say "we have recognised them as the independent people of an should he adopted towards the people of New Zealand as had independent country, aod we shall see that their rights are not been exisi ing, between this country and France, or in America. invaded." They were acknowledged by Great Britain, and He did not mean that nice points upon any sub now he came to the New Zealand Company's connexion with ject should be allowed to form difficulties in the country, and before he had done, _he thought he would put the way of l e t islatin g for a hal f sa v age people. the case in such a position that the Hon. Gentleman would be (Hear, hear.) But he did think that substantial justice should puzzled to answer. The New Zealand Company said "We be done as between the natives and the settlers, and this could went out to a country which you have acknowledged to be an be very easily done without injury to the prosperity of this coun independent and sovereign one, and we bought land of the try, or without the necessity of sending out a larger body of sovereigns of that country, paying a fair price for it, and, there- armed men. He did think it would be absurd to regard the fore, we consider we have a perfect title to the land, but when aborigines of New Zealand as if they were the inha you come afterwards and take possession of it, you say you bitants of a state as civilized as that of England ; but the have had possession of the country, but we say we think this our mode by which the Government proposed to fine those private property, bought according to the very forms on which people was an absurd mistake. ( Hear, hear, and cheers.) you place so much weight—those forms which Lord Stanley so The levy of a tax was proposed, but the absurdity of such a often refers to. We bought the land and we paid for it, and measure must be apparent to any person who considered the you have no right to look into the contract. We claim the present state of the aborigines of that country.—(Hear, hear.) land and deny your right to publish any proclamation that can He could not detain the House further on the present occa be regarded over Europe as challenging our right to our pur- sion. He would give his vote in favour of his Hon. Friend chases in a free country." He should like to see the question near him, for he did think, that if the House was so taken up brought into a court of law—say the Queen's Bench, by party conflicts, he feared it would go far to shake the confi and its decision upon it.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") deuce of the public in that House. But what did Great Britain do under the government of the Sir R. INGLIS contended that the labour of the missionaries Noble Lord the Member for London ? What were the next in New Zealand had produced great results, and he was sorry to stages in this farce ? and a curious farce it was. The Govern- hear the Hon. and Learned Member for Liskeard permit him ment enlarged the commission of the Captain-General of New self to speak slightingly of those missionaries. Believing that South Wales. They declared that his jurisdiction should ex- the question raised by the New Zealand Company was raised tend to all territories in New Zealand, and then they further to support the interest of the Company as such, and for no granted a commission to Captain Hobson to go out as a sort of other object, he should give his support to her Majesty's deputy-captain-general. They gave him consular power, and Gove rn ment. not only that, but they furnished him with ambassadorial Mr. AGLIONBY regretted being obliged to obtrude him powers to treat with the native chiefs for their submission to self upon the House upon this subject, because his feelings were the power of Great Britain. But the farce went on. Cap- very strong upon the matter. He thought that a Committee tam Hobson went out, and then began that other extraordt- would be a much better tribunal for the investigation nary two-act farce commencing with the treaty of Waitangi. of the subjects which Lad been brought under the considera- Atter this, they had Captain Hobson employing his various tion of the House by the Attorney-General, than that House arts to induce the chiefs to cede the sovereignty of the country. was. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had dealt in gross Let them but think of the document obtained by Captain exaggeration. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had said, Wakefield from the chiefs around Wellington, and to that the purchases of land by the New Zealand Company had urge with a grave and serious aspect such an instrument as been unfairly . made. This was entirely without proof. The ceding the sovereignty of a country. They (the Government) Companyhad paid every farthing which hadbeen awarded by the said the purchase of the land was a fraud and they would have Commissioner of claims. In one case, after the title to the nothing to do with it, but he maintained that the selling of the land had been conveyed, the Company paid 7,900/. for what was land was a fraud.—( Hear.) It was a fraud on the civilized called good-will. The Company had desired peace, and had world.—(Cheers.) They said that the purchase was dis- made every concession to the Government short of a concession honourable, but where was the sense of honour in their Iran- of their honour. They had never concealed anything from the sactions with the New Zealand Company ? But now he Government. He believed that no one would dare to say in would remark upon the part taken by the missionaries apart pe. the presence of the Noble Lord the Member for London, that culiarly marked, as they had used every means, by hands and the New Zealand Company had misled him. They had done no wit, to get these very documents signed. He repeated that such thing. Everything was open to him, and the Noble Lord their conduct was peculiarly marked in their intercourse with knew this. The Noble Lord, when he was in office, might the aborigines. But how did they get there ? Why in this have had every document connected with the Company merely way. There was at the time a great organization abroad for for the asking for them. The safety of the colony had been emancipating the negroes, and there was a mass of and should be the first object of the Company. They coupled organization and other sentimental bubbles afloat, the condition with the monopoly. If the House wished for in and so the missionaries got to New Zealand. formation nothing would be refused. With regard to the Hon. He should be shut up to the end of the session in Committee, Member fir Oxford, he would assert that no aggravation and that would be the end of it. He had had sufficient ex- was conceded. But until he had evidence to the contrary he perience of this. In the Aborigines Committee, what oc- should believe that the motives and actions to carry on curred? When the report was made, Lord Normanby said, their designs were rendered abortive by the proceedings of the we cannot stand against this. In the result, General Hobson Church Missionary Society ; and the opposition of that Gen was sent out. To obviate the claims of France our prior tlernan had been a prevailing opposition. The Hon. Gentle ' claims to discovery was set up. This was the origin of the man then read a memorial from that society. New Zealand Hobby—( Hear, hear) —from which no one had Sir R. INGLIS asked whether this was according to the gained but the missionaries.—( Hear, and a laugh.) They had custom of the Church Missionary Society. This remark would written an account of the Christian doctrine, and had translated justify any imputation on their character? it into the New Zealand language ; which, however did not Mr. AGLIONBY would say that in the absence of the reli contain a sufficient number of words to express the ideas, and gious inducements of the popular safety there was something these were written in a jargon which the New Zealanders could to consider beside the religious prejudices of the people. By not understand, but he could because he knew English.— the decision of the Government they had settled 200,000 acres ( Hear, and laughter.) But simple as the missionaries were, of land on these persons, and between the several parties it had they took care of themselves.—( Hear, and laughter.) One come to this whether they would or could not colonize New gentleman of this body acknowledged that he had obtained Zealand. But he was obliged to yield in order to rebut the a bit of land—which turned out to he 90,000 acres, Another feelings of those whose judgment he very highly respected. had 100,000 acres.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The He had listened to the observations of the Hon. and Learned missionaries were the real cause of all the misgovernment. Member of the Board of Trade, and was quite conscious that the rho great evil at the root of all colonial government was, that adhesion of the India Company would be quite sufficient, but when a Ministry came into power, they said, we must have a in the event of aggression should be granted. On the 21st Colonial Secretary, and they immediately placed in office some December last it was agreed that the advantages should be man of Parliamentary iniuence, with gut regard to his know- divided, and assured to those who felt a very conscious sup le Ige or capacity. But there was a power behind, and, in this position that a division would settle the question. case, the missionaries were that power.—( Hear, hear.) Such Mr. HOPE said that be had supplied a full report of the influence was sometimes overcome by a man of great strength proceedings of the Government, and he thought that when he of mind, great sagacity, great patience. But Lord Stanley was had supplied the whole document, extracts vt ere unnecessary. not such a person.—( Hear, hear.) The missionaries had been The motion for the adjournment of the debate was then put the cause of the differences between this country and France in and agreed to. Otaheite. —( Hear, hear.) They went abroad under the pretence FEES (CRIMINAL COURTS) BILL. of spreading the religion of peace, and they spread only war anti Mr. B. ESCOTT moved the second reading of this Bill. dissension. He did not blame this Government for all that had Sir. CRIPPS seconded the motion. occurred. Preceding Governments, from the 52d of Geo. 111. The A TT , iRNEY-GENRAL opposed it. down to Lord Normanby were equally to blame.—( Hear, Mr. HUME supported it. hear.) He thought that the Government should take Mr. B. ESCOTT explained, and the territory into their own. hands, and give the colonists Sir J. GRAHAM expostulated. a charter for self-government, such as was possessed Mr. DARBY remonstrated with the promoters of the Bill, by the colonists of Rhode Island. When the first which was eventually postponed. settlers of the New Zealand Company were about to leave the TURNPIKES ROAD (SCOTLAND) BILL. Thames, they had agreed upon a form of Government amongst On the order of the day for the second reading of this Bill, themselves which they undertook to obey. In this they Mr. PRINGLE wished to reserve the second reading, as a followed the example of those pilgrim settlers who adopted a great number of Scottish Members were out of town. form of government which was now reverenced throughout Mr. P. M. STEWART trusted that the Hon. Member, as America as much as Magna Charta was in England. He said thus he did not o bjec t to the Bill, would allow it to be read a second much in justice to the New Zealand Company, although he did time, and take the discussion in Committee. not approve of all their proceedings, and especially of their The Unions (Ireland) Bill was read a second time. taking out emigrants without providing for their settlement.— The Jurors' Book ( Ireland) Bill was read a third time. ( Hear, hear.) A land tax had been spoken of. But upon The report on the Valuation (Ire and) Bill was brought up, whom was the tax to be levied? Who owned the land ? and ordered to be committed. ( Hear, hear.) It could not be alleged that individuals amongst The report of the Committee of Supply was received. the tribes owned it, nor that the tribes themselves were the SLAVE TRADE (BRAZIL) BILL. owners. Each tribe occupied, from time to time, certain On the order of the day for going into Committee en spots, which they cultivated as long as they would bear culti- this Bill, vation, when they moved off to another spot more fertile. But Mr. MILNER GIBSON said that as this was a very im they did not po'sess the land as the savages of , portant measure, he trusted before the House would proceed North America formerly possessed theirs ; for the latter 1 further in it, that any correspondence yet unproduced would be used the land as hunting grounds, and lived upon it. laid before the House, and he should therefore move that the But it was absurd to say that the New Zealanders possessed House do not resolve itself into Committee on the Bill this the land from sea to sea and from mountain to mountain, as the day, in order to give Government an opportunity of laying any people of this island possessed Britain, or the Hon. Gentleman ! other correspondence relative to the question before the Hous e . opposite possessed his paternal estates. He thought the course j Sir R. PEEL hoped that the Hon. Member would allow which the Government ought to pursue was to take the land j the Bill to go into Committee, and if any papers connected on the part of the Crown—to give to the natives a liberal pro- ' with the slave trade, not already laid on the table, could be tection, and such reserves of land as would be amply adequate found, they would be produced before the third reading. to their comfortable subsistence amonst the civilized settlers. j Mr. HAWES hoped that if any other correspondence ex- This was the only thing which could be done to soften that ! isted, it would be laid on the table, and he thought those H ot ,. fate, to which the New Zealanders, like all savage races coming Members belonging to the mercantile community ought to en in contact with civilised men were approaching, that of certain tertain similar views. extinction. But if the proposed land tax were imposed Sir ROBERT PEEL said he had stated he would he ready the result would be. that the land would become that of the to acquiesce in the postponement of the third reading of the Crown by forfeiture within twelve months.—( Hear.) That Bill in order to p roduce any correspondence that had taken p lace was a fiction which he would not say was undignified—the between the Government of the Brazils and her Majesty's l were term was insufficient to express its character. It was rather Government. worthy of that term to which the Noble Lord himself ( Lord Mr. HUTT thou g ht that the corres p o ndence was of very Stanley) had given authority—that of "thimble rig."—(Hear great importance, and he trusted that the d p m a papers t y w o u r a l Court b e d e w and laughter.) The lion. and Learned Gentleman , who was ' before the House, as it was really a matter o f moment t h at t h e very imperfectly heard throughout, concluded by entreating the c,Housept. i should, liEc be informed said h ormed on a thesu tb bj e ec A t. Government to adopt the policy he had recommended. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that it was not his made paramount it would be the most effectual means of put intention to enter now into a lengthened discussion of this ques. tang down the slave trade. tion, which had been already, in the course of this session, suffi. Mr. HUME objected to the matter going further visthout ciently considered by the House. Now he was quite prepared ! additional information being furnished. to admit with the Member for Liskeard, that there were many I Sir R. PEEL said the Government could not bring forward of the persons who undertook the scheme with the most disin- I the Bill at an earlier period of the session, from the press of ether terested motives, and yet it appeared from the book on the business. table, that there were persons who realised ti per cent. Colonel SIBTHORP had been eighteen years in the House, on their outlay. He mentioned this because there was arid never saw the Hon. Member for Salford asleep at his post a great deal in the conduct of this Company which was deemed before. They were now called upon, at half-past one, to force culpable by the Government. In 1839, when under the conduct ; measures 'of the greatest importance through a thinly attended of Captain Wakefield, the New Zealand Company had IHouse. Why did not the on. Member move the adjourn made purchases unwise in their character of the natives. The ment ? Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had distinctly chal- I Mr. MILNER GIBSON thought he should not be discharg lenged hm, on the ground that the New Zealand Company had ; ing his duty if he allowed the Bill to proceed without the pro not been guaranteed by the Government. In 1839 the New I duction of the correspondence he had called for. He would Zealand Company had applied to the Government for a recog- therefore move the appointment of the Committee on Thursday tuition of their authority. On this application the Government I next. had expressly stated that they would not recognise their pro- The motion having been seconded, ceedin gs , yet i n s pit e of these proceedings the New Zealand Sir R. PEEL expressed his willingness to postpone going Company had made purchases of the iiatioe.3 of lant's to into Committee on the Bill till T hursOay next. which they were atoms entitled, and on the 2,1 I Mr. 31. GIBSON called for the production of Mr. Ellice's of Slay the New Zealand Company had issued a I correspondence relative to the right of search. prospectus stating that they were in possession of cer. Sir R. PEEL said, as these negotia ti o n s had b ee n unsuc• tain lands, t o which they had not the slightest cessfu l, he thou g ht it would be inconsistent in him to pro title. They h a d app li e d to the Government for a' duce it. recognition of this titl e , b ut L or d N orman b y , un d er th e a d- Mr. HUME said the country was anxious to know upon vice of Capt. Hobson, had replied, that the Government could what grounds the trade between Brazil and this country had not do otherwise than acknowledge that the treaty of Waitangar I been suspended, and he therefore hoped the correspondence was a valid treaty. Yet in spite of all this the New Zealand j would be laid on the table of the House. Company had instructed their agent, Capt. W a k e fi e ld, t o ma k e I Sir R. PEEL said he had no objection to the production of purchases of lands of the natives, who w ere perfectly entitled to all papers which would not be injurious to the public service. the sovereignty of their own estates. They had made these ! The Stamp Duties Bill then passed through Committee, and purchases at a time when the sovereignty of these -lands was the report was brought up. Cully recognised by the government of this Company. Lord JEWISH DISABILITIES BILL. Normanby had expressly recognised the sovereignty over the On the reading of the order of the day for the third reading wastes of New Zealand, and it was quite incompetent for the of this Bill, agents of the New Zealand Company to enter into any arrange- Sir R. INGLIS objected to the passing of the Bill at this ments which disregarded the rights of the natives. This treaty late hour, being now two o'clock, and he would divide the was made in 1840, with the full cognizance of the New Zealand House.—( Hear, hear.) Company, and he used the expression advisedly ;he yet asserted Colonel SIBTHORP had for many years looked upon the that ea the bound to observe the terms of that Ge n tl eman a t th e h ea d o f h er M a j e sty' s Government as a sins y. In countryh e Was fully f t uly o l fthat treaty the Noble Lord the Mem- sere Christian and Protestant. But he had been compelled not sin treaty. rtthe I to regard him any longer in that light—( A laugh)—and he had further stated that this treaty was one shouldnever ' her for London entirely agr6ed, and had expressed his approval of the treaty, and n tl o edt members of the Hon. Gentleman might bring in, if it were even to destroy ts had been —( Laughter, ) He would support his Hon. Friend the Mem common community who were so muc h o protection the Protestant Church, and to bring in infidelity in its place. which ought to be observed, that i t d h . ere hT w h e ee r h e itri as the inhabitants of New Zealand Lau recognised by the Government. On the 18t ovem November the ber for Oxford, who was really a Christian and a Protestant New Zealand Company's agent had entered into on arrange- —(Laughter)—in recording his vote against the Bill.--( Hear, ment with the natives, in the full knowledge of the teems of hear, and laughter.) the treaty of Waitangai. In that treaty i t is expressly stipu- The House then divided, when the numbers were— ntitled to any lands For the third readi ng lend that the Company should not bat e 44 Yet, any dis- Against it which were not granted by the Crown. 0 when 1 Majority —33 pute arose, they endeavoured to establish it as a sort of eonni by The Bill was accordingly tion, that the lands they sought to obtain were to be allowed B read a third time and passed. The Banded C the express consent of the natives. That this was the case was TAXING M orn s was read a third time and passed. expressly apparent from the consent of the Noble Lord himself, A TERS COURT OF CHANCERY and a letter of Mr. Vernon Smith, which expressly stated the (IRELAND) BILL. terms of the agreement to the Company. To this the chairman • Sir ROBERT FERGUSON hoped that this Bill would of the N ew Z ea l and Company re pli e d, f u lly stating that the not be pressed on at this late period of the session, con- Company took the l an d u n d er the su p position that the Crown sideri n g the magnitude and importance of the measure. had to give its approb at i on to the purchase. The Commissiooer The A TTORNEY -GENERAL for Ireland hoped the Hon. Claims ascertain on what grounds the Company Baronet of Land Clas had to" would not oppose the Bill, as a taxing officer f or t h a t had to make their claims to the lands entered upon by the arc Court in Ireland was very much waited. rangement of Col. Wakefield. By an inspection of the agree- Sir WILLIAM SO M ERVILLE said he had to com p lain of ment with the natives it was evident that no agreement had the very late period of the sessiop at vfhiph this measure was been catered into by the Company. But I Commission out. introduced, PAL. M. J. O'CONNELL sail he should also protet .against Bills of this sort being introdtred at so late a period of the session, and, therefore, he world support his lion. Friend in his opposition to the Bill. The question was then put, ;nd the House went into Com mittee rut the Bill ; a reselutim was then agreed to for a grant of 1.00! - !1. e year from the Coo,olidated Fund. Report to morrow (this day ). The Compensations Bill wal read a second time. The Drainage of Estates Bil was read a second time. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Two o'clmk. should have a daeoration.' He felt that he had a right to , ea. press his opinion with resoect to the petition, and would conclude by moving that it should lie on the table. DERRY AND COLEB.AINE RAILWAY. * favour The Earl of WICKLOW prozented six petitions in of the Derry and Colertine Railway Bill. HUSH COLLEGES BILL; Lord CRENIORNE presented a petition, sii`inea b y 9 , 000 o f the Roman Catholic inhabitants of Cork, af7.;inst the Irish Col-. leges Bill. He would at the same time ".";ice the opportunity of stating to their Lordships that his opinion was entirely in avour of that measure. _ HOUSE OF LORDS, July 21. ROYAL ASSENT. Lord ELDON presented a petition from the University of Oxford against the Colleges (Ireland Bill). Lord STANLI , .',Y presented four petitions, one from 13 pro fessors of the Belfast Academical Institution ; one from the managers of the same institution, signed by the secretary on their behalf; one from the Literary and. Scientific Institution, and another from the inhabitants of the some city, generally. Lord STANLEY, in rising to mauve the second reading of the Bill for the establishment of provincial colleges in Ireland, said, that he need net remind their Lordships that her Ma jesty, on delivering her speech at the opening of Parliament this session, recommended that the promotion and encourage ment of education in Ireland should form a prominent feature of their consideration. In accordance with that gracious re quest he now had to lay before the House a Bill founded on principles of liberality towards Ireland, and with prospects of leading to infinite benefits. It was a measure which, brought forward with the best intentions of her Majesty's Government, had been received in the Lower House with support, if not cordiality, and if not passed with unanimity was at least agreed to by a great majority. In the course that had been pursued by Governments for the last half century in granting a liberal education to the country one great omission had been made. While the means of instruction were liberally accorded to the highest and the very lowest ranks, that class which re quired it chiefly had been overlooked—he alluded to the middle class. In using that term " middle class," he meant that class just below the highest, and just above the lowest class. But while the opportunities for education had been but tardily and narrowly extended to the middling classes of the entire kingdom, if there were one part where such education was snore necessary than in another, it was in Ireland. There the discordant elements of conflicting creeds national prejudices, and political acerbities, rendered a system of united education more especially necessary, and yet, with the exception of the Belfast Institution, there was no esta blishment whatever but Trinity College, Dublin, where mem bers of both religions, Catholic and Protestant, could be edu cated together. And although in Trinity College there were at present, he was happy to say, more than one hundred Roman Catholics receiving education on the kindliest terms with their fellow students of the antagonistic creed, yet the establishment was an exclusive—he would not use the term " sectarian" institution. It was for the pur pose of supplying this deficiency, of remedying the evil thus ikely to increase, that the present measure had been introduced. And he was sorry to observe that a petition had been just pre ented by a Noble Lord near him (Lord Eldon) from several members of the University of Oxford, deprecatory of the pro -) osed measure, and urging that the old system, as originally a dopted in the English Universities, should be applied to all cademical institutions, and never departed from.—( Hear, sear_) such a proposition might be very suitable to a ountry where no religious institutions existed, but was wholly incompatible with a policy for conciliating animr,sities and cementing religious differences. He was aware that a sys tem involving the principle of endowing the Roman Catholic Church (for he was ready fully and frankly to declare his adop tion of that alternative) he was aware that such a system met the disapprobation of many whose opinions and even prejudices should be respected. He (Lord Stanley) was willing to admit that science should be the handmaid of religion, and while he deprecated the extension of that apothegm to every instance, such as of followers of distinctive religionsassembled for instruc tion in one institution, he was not favourable tqthe proposition of some, that the doors of an exclusive establishment should be thrown open alike for all persuasions. Thus, it had been suggested as a remedy for the present deficiency in educational opportuni ties in Ireland, that Trinity College, Dublin, should be free to all denominations, even to the admission to its corporate rights. And here he wished to do an act of justice to an Honourable and Learned Gentleman, from whose political principles he almost invariably dissented. In the year 18 9 5, Mr. O'Connell stated, in evidence before a Committee of that House, that he deprecated, as an act of gross injustice, the diversion of the funds .of Trinity College, Dublin, to the Roman Catholics ? The effect of such a system would be, not only acerbity between the three novel and the one existing college, but a spirit of individuality, if he might so expresshim self, would spring up and induce the Presbyterians to fre quent the Presbyterian College, the Protestant the Pro testant, and the Roman Catholic the Roman Catho lic, for the purposes of the Roman Catholic religion, or other extraneous requirements. In that opinion he (Lord Stanley) cordially concurred, but, on the rejection of such a proposition, how could they devise a satisfactory substi tute? Would they establish in Dublin three colleges, one for Presbyterians, one for the Church of England, or Episcopalians, and another for the Roman Catholics ? At the period when the Irish Education scheme was first mooted, in 1821, there was a proviso that all persons should be compelled to attend the services of their respective churches every Sunday. That clause was, however, subsequently struck out, because the Members of te Church of England and of the Presbyterian denomination said it would be a sin to recom mend persons of the Roman Catholic persuasion to attend their church. Would that tend to do away with the charge of pro selytism and of unsettling the minds of the young men in their colleges ? Would it be likely to tend to reconcile the good feel ings of persons of different religious persuasions, by introduc ing a system which would have a tendency to proselytism ? He would never consent that such a system should be introduced. He wished to speak with all respect of the memorial presented by a Noble Lord from the Roman Catholic prelates of Ireland. He agreed with the Noble Lord that the House was bound to look to the weight of argument contained in the objections of the memorial. He did not think that the House was bound to yield to them. Was the faith of the Roman Catholic student in danger when he should b 3 called upon to attend a lecture on anatomy ? Some more stringent objection was necessary. It seemed perfectly reasonable to him that the 'State should pos sess the power of appointing the president and vice-president of these colleges, and should also have the power of appointing the professors. Nor did he believe that there would be the smallest danger that the Crown would abstain from ap pointing persons to hold the office of professors who, whatever creed they might belong to, if competent to fulfil their duties, would be passed over on account of their religious persuasion. He should regret to see the ap pointment of professors other than those whom the Crown should provide. He thought, also, that the Crown should possess the power of discharging them from their situations. He did not think it would be wise to establish any religious distinctions within the walls, or to insist on the establishment of any theological institutions. He considered, however, that it was the bounden duty of the State to afford every possible facility for the religious education of youth. The system of education which would be promoted in :these colleges would be the Tutorian system. He had heard it urged against this system of education, that the young men would be taken from under the eye of their parents, and scattered over the town where the college was situated, and taken from the care of their tutors. It was not wise policy, however, to bring up young men in monastic seclusion for several years, and then to turn them loose at once, exposed toall the temptations of the world. Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Belfast, and Dublin were all populous towns. He did not think that there was such an absolute security for that purity of morals, which showed either Oxford or Cambridge a model for imitation. The proposed colleges were to be placed in great towns, and there existed many reasons for so doing, and whether the young men were confined, as at Oxford and Cambridge, or were let loose, as at other colleges, rely upon it no greater control would be obtained over the morals of the young men. Those institutions were intended merely for the middle classes of the State—a very large portion of those who would send their sons to these institutions were residents within the town. The advantage of an academical education, with the blessing of parental superintendence, would be simul taneously obtained. None of the professors within the colleges were to reside within the walls. He would inquire, then, what would be more natural than that the professors living in the town should open houses, where the pupils from the country might be sent to reside. The professors would afford them all the advantages of domestic supervision. The religious educa tion of the young men would be amply provided for by the ap pointment of persons duly qualified to instruct them in their dif ferent religious principles. When the different feelings of the community, with respect to the Protestant and Roman Catholic religion, was roused, within a short time the means for the en. downsent of religious teachers would be amply provided, without in the slightest degree interfering with the duties of the students. Every facility, consistent with sound policy, had been provided for the establishment of religious education. The parties who endowed the religious establishments might make their own provisions, to a certain extent, and the students although possessing diversified religi ous op i n i ons wou l d have the same opportunities as others of earning the rewards and competing for the honours as the other students.—( Hear, hear.) He had stated the grounds on which it was objectionable to have religious institutions in colleges. Every facility had been afforded for the religious education of the youth. In a country in which it was impos-ible to educate according to the principles of many religious creeds, divided into a number of religious denominations, he entreated the House to take the only course by which they could ensure the advantages of secular education. He had that faith in the feelings of both Protestants and Catholics, that he was sure they, from their private sources, would nut fail to provide for the instruction of their youth in those different religions for which it was impossible the State could provide. He was satisfied that if the Bill were re jected, their refusal would °pet ate with the most disastrous consequences. The advantages which would be provided for generations yet unborn, by institutions liberally endowed from the funds of the nation at large, were incalculable. The inesti mable advantage of an education at once literary, scientific, moral, and religious he might also add, would by the proposed measure be secured to all Ireland. The Royal Assent was gives to-day, at a quarter before he o'clock, by Commission, to no less than ninety-three Bills, among which were—the Assessed Taxes Composition Bill, Sir Henry Fottinger's Annuity Bill, the Timber Ships Bill, Bankruptcy D, claration Bill, West India Islands Relief Bill, Seal-office Abolitionßill, Pcbl c Museums Bill, Scientific and Li terary Societies Bill, Canal Companies Carriers Bill, Do Stealing Bill, the Infeftment (Scotland) Bill, Banking (Scotland) Bill, Statute Labour ( Scotland) Bill, Arrestment of Wages ( Scot land ) ( No. 2) Bill, Schoolmasters ( Scotland) Bill, Banking (Ire land) Bill, Constables Public Works ( Ireland) Bill, Glossop Gas Bill, the Glasgow Bridges Bill, the Totnes Markets and Waterworks (No 2) Bill, the Wolverhampton Waterworks Bill, the Lyme Regis Improvement Market and Waterworks Bill, the Dundee Waterworks Bill, the Blackburn Waterworks Bill, the Hartlepool Pier and Port Bill, the Kendal Reservoirs Bill, the Manchester Improvement Bill, the Chelsea Improvement Bill, the Belfast Improve ment Bill, the Agricultural and Commercial Bank of Ireland Bill, the Quinborowe Borough Bill, the Forth and Clyde Navigation and Union Canal Junction (No. 2) Bill, the Manchester Court of Record Bill, the Reversionary In terest Society (No. 2) Bill, the Keyingharn Drainage Bill, the Shepley Lane Head and Bansley Road Bill, the Har well and Streatley Road Bill, the Winwick Rectory Bill, Lady Sandys' ( Turner's) Estate Bill, the Kidwelly Inclosure Bill, and the following Railway Bills: Railway Clauses Consolidation (Scotland) (No. 2), London and Greenwich, Belfast and Ballymena, North British, Lancaster and Carlisle, York and North Midland (Harrogate Branch), North Woolwich, Guildford Junction, Waterford and Kilkenny, Exeter and Crediton, Bridgewater Navigation and Railway, Sheffield and Rotherham, Edinburgh and Glasgow, Newcastle and Darlington (Brandling Junction), Southampton and Dorchester, Eastern Union, Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr (Cumneck Branch), Dundalk and Enniskillen, Eastern Union (Bury St. Edmunds) (No. 2), Londonderry and Enniskillin, Chester and Birkenhead Extension, Whitehaven and Furness Junction, Manchester, Bury, and Rossendale, Great North of England and Richmond, Blackburn and Preston, Leeds and Thirsk, Sheffield, Ashton-under-Lyne, and Manchester, North Wales, Taw Vale Railway, Manchester and Birmingham (Ashton branch), Ashton, Stalybridge, and Liverpool Junction (Ardwick and Guide-bridge branches), Eastern Counties (Ely and Whittlesea Deviation), Manchester South Junction and Altrincham, Trent Valley, London and Brighton (Horsham Branch), Moor Extension, North Wales Mineral, North Union and Ribble Navigation Branch, St. Helen's Canal and Railway, Great North of England (Clarence and Hartlepool Junction), Great Western (Irelandy(Dublin to Mullingar and Athlone), Cockermouth and Workington, Richmond (Surrey), Cork and Bandon, Liverpool and Manchester, Great Southern and Western (Ireland), Preston and Wyre, L) nn and Dereham, Middlesborough and Redcar, Dublin and Drogheda, Newry and Enniskillen, Dublin and Belfast Junction, with a branch to Kells, Waterford and Limerick. The Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor, the Duke of Buccleueh, and Lord Wharncliffe. Messengers from the Commons brought up several Bills. THE PENINSULAR ARMY. The Duke of RICHMOND begged leave to present a peti tion from the veteran officers in the Peninsular campaign, request ing their Lordships to recommend to her Majesty such rewards as they might think proper. The petitioners said they would not trouble them with the details of their services—the thanks of both Houses had been often voted to the army in which they served, and which was the best proof of the high nature of their services. The walls of Parliament had often echoed with most melancholy forebodings that the British army would be obliged to fly to their ships for refuge, and that they would be forced to return to their native land, defeated and disgraced. But the transcendant abilities of his Noble Friend (the Duke of Wellington) had averted that great calamity, and the Penin sula was freed and the tag of England was planted on the soil of France. Every man must admit the claim of those brave officers. How gallantly they opposed the victorious legions of Napoleon—men brought up and educated in war. He did not say that even the refusal of the prayer of the petition would have any effect on the British army, for they would ever feel bound to maintain the honour of their Sovereign. The natural bravery of the soldiers, their enthusiasm, and the esprit du corps which existed among them—the feeling that each in dividual had, that upon the success of his own personal exer tions depended the fate of the day—would always make the soldiers do their duty. But he asked, as an act of duty—as the payment of a debt of gratitude—the granting of the claim which the petitioners sought. He concurred with those petitioners ; but, at the same time, he must say that he had no wish to impute blame to any one, still less to his Noble Friend (the Duke of Wellington) whom he had always regarded with feelings of admiration and respect. He blamed not those who had conferred medals on the brave men of Waterloo. nor on those who had fought in China and India, but he asked was it right that these brave men whom he repre sented should be left with no other marks of glory than their wounds ? Why should not these soldiers receive equal com pensation? He felt personally complimented by those brave men having placed their petition in his hands, and hoped their Lordships would think fit to grant its prayer. The Duke of WELLINGTON said the petitioners had done him but justice in stating that he had never mentioned the war in the Peninsula except in praise of the conduct of the officers who served in it ; but, with all respect, he did not think either House of Parliament could properly interfere in a case of this description. Some years had now elapsed since these same petitioners had made an application to him—it was in the year 1840, and upon precisely similar grounds. He then stated to these officers the position in which he stood towards them and towards the Government for a considerable number of years. He stated to them, that for several years he had reported to the Government their conduct as members of the Peninsular army, and that their conduct had been brought under the notice of their Sovereign. He further stated on that occasion that rewards to the army was not a subject in which he could interfere. These were acts for the Sovereign and for the advisers of the Sovereign, and did not come into his province. He recommended to these gentlemen at that time to make their application at the proper quarter, but upon inquiry upon the present occasion he found they had not done so. Nearly the whole British army served in that war. The two Houses of Parliament returned their thanks to that army, as it had served in no less than sixteen distinct engagements. Medals were struck in commemoration of distinguished actions in the Peninsula on no less than nineteen different occasions,and were distributed to no fewer than 1,300 officers. A new system of promotion was now instituted by means of special brevets, as a reward to those officers who had particularly distinguished themselves. Officers of inferior brevet rank were allowed to retire on superior rank, and to re ceive the pay and allowances attached to those ranks. These were solid boons conferred by the public on these individuals. There were among the Noble Lords present, no less than seven Noble Lords who had been promoted to the Peerage for distin guished military services, rendered either by themselves or their fathers, or grandfathers, and not less than 400 Orders of the Bath had been conferred on officers serving in the Penin su:ar army, being very nearly one-half of the whole num ber. The late Sovereign had been pleased to confer a medal nn every individual who served in the battle of Waterloo, which honour had not been conferred before. The battle of Waterloo was attended with circumstances of a peculiar nature. Its issue was peace, after a war that had been waged for upwards of a quarter of a century, and the natural expecta tion was that war would henceforward be at an end. The distinction of the Order of the Bath was originally con ferred on the Peninsular army, but lately it had been extended to other armies and especially to the last Indian armies. This was the history of the grant of this medal—it was for the good conduct of the troops, and granted in order to induce activity and good soldiership in the army. Its benefits had been found in the Indian campaigns and also in the late war in China. The British army had been engaged in fortified rivers and against fortified forts in operation against a numerous and in telligent people. They suffered greatly, not only from the dangers of actual warfare, but also from the Wipes of march ing and the scorching heat of the climate. The troops were suc cessful—successful at all points, and the result had been the en tering into a negotiation which would lay the fonn a d t a y t b i rr os eh i twe o eh f een a . lasting ne fi tsth peacethat might with be ehat expectedgreat atnod arise important from r e this country and China were inca;culable. He spoke to their Lordships of the army in the Peninsula, not as an unfavoured, but a distinguished and well-rewarded army. But while they remembered the deeds performed in the Peninsula they must remember that other expeditions were equally renowned ; let then but call to mind Egypt and Calabria, and say, were not the officers engaged in those glorious campaigns equally deserving of rewards 7 And they must not forget the fleet, while entertaining the question of the merits of the army : the fleet of Great Britain had maintained its glory fully as emi nently as the army, and yet a general medal was never dissemi nated among the fleet. Yet, there had been great naval vic tories—there were the actions of the First of June, of Cape St. Vincent, and the Nile, but did ever any one hear of medals being granted for those illustrious affairs? While, therefore, such obstacles presented themselves to the prayer of the present petition, he should feel it his duty to oppose it. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that the House and the entire elntipuke who had precededrecountrymustfee him, lthatthe admirable speech of the was an unanswerable reply to the petition laid on the table by the Noble Lord opposite ; anything, therefore, he could add would be only superfluous. Nevertheless, he was desirous of expressing his opinion of the practice of officers asking for decorations by peti tion—in one word, he would say that he considered it unworthy the character of British officers.—(Hear, hear.) Officers ought to trust to the Crown for their rewards, the House ought never to interfere. He looked upon the decora tions worn by officers with far greater respect when they were conferred by the Sovereign, on the recommendation of the Commander-in-Chief. British officers did themselves little honour by supplicating for honours to which they considered they were entitled. Would any of the officers engaged in the victories in the Peninsula have petitioned for such a boon as that now sought ? He never regretted anything so much as when he heard that these officers were going to petition that House to award them medals for their services—the more so when the petition came from the hands of the Noble Duke. He maintained that it would be unconstitetional to grant the prayer of the petition ; and if it were granted, the officers, when they grewsold, and sat by their fire-sides, could not but look upon them as not spontaneously granted by their country, but at their supplication. some The Duke of BUCKINGHANI held that the petition was theirm most blood i respectfullynworded. the seryiee of t All he thesetheir country, i a indvid memorial that they had done their country service i n the six teen engagements ie question. He demanded n othin g more than that the decoration which they sought m i g ht be awarded individuals, for,shed who washad them ; they sought no other reward. Their Lordships must surely think that many of these officers felt cause for not re mainingsure that there was not one of those who signed theKtiqq4 in the station in which they now w ere . He wa s fought ,Ulypt 1Y119,44 ilot qAt 9yer7 officof wbg The Earl of SHREWSBURY was of opinion that the measure before the House had been properly described, when it had been termed " a gigantic scheme of Godless education." They had gained a victory once over fanaticism and blind pre judice, yet by some strange fatality they were now about to abandon the principle for which they so long contended. The people of Ireland asked why were they Christians to be edu cated like heathens, without the knowledge of God, and the Government answered them, because we are the vassals of the Protestants of England, who declare that your religion is super stitious, and your worship idolatrous, Was this a safe answer to give to the people of Ireland, and was this the way to treat people whom they were so anxious to conciliate? Surely the Government would not argue thus. But yet the Government, the strong Government, which, in spite of prejudice and fanaticism had carried the Maynooth Bill, now yielded to this unworthy opposition, and forced this Godless educa tional system on the people of Ireland. It was a mere mockery to talk of the Irish being able to provide religious instruction for the pupils in those colleges. The poor Irish had already so many calls upon them, that they were not at all able to meet any new ones ; they had to main tain their priests, and to build suitable edifices for the celebra tion of their religious worship, and, considering their poverty, and all the claims upon them, it was wonderful how they did so much. In short, it was impossible they could supply the large resources necessary to carry out the scheme. Before they were in a condition to furnish those funds, generation after genera tion would have passed away, and they would have experienced all the evils of this most miserable and defective system of edu cation. The Government had thought proper to provide a re. ligious education for early youth, was it less necessary for early manhood, when the passions were getting strong and required the restraint of religion—when the reason was beginning to develop itself, and was most inquisitive and frequently most sceptical in faith, and if not instructed would readily yield to scep ticism? It had been said that this measure was devised to pro testantise Ireland—he disbelieved the allegation, and thought the Government was actuated by more unworthy motives. The Noble Earl then alluded to the strong and unjust prejudices which prevailed among the people of England against the Ca. tholie religion, which they designated as idolatrous and vicious. And how could this be otherwise, when their ministers, their spiritual teachers, their guardians. preached such canting non sense as was spoken by the Rev. Mr. Alford, the incumbent of Rugby ? The Noble E ar l t h en read passages from a report of the sermon of this person at the Church of St. Matthew the Evangelist before a large - ceugyegation, just previous to th e t hi r d rea di ng of th a Maynooth bill. The preacher described the Catholic religion as idolatrous, as vicious in rperals, and politically wicked ; he said, murder was sanc tioned by its tenets ; that perjury was countenanced, sod that idolatry was enjoined i and, in QIN* to, VONO the ‘tratil 9t via‘ he said, he quoted the creed of Pope Pius the Fourth. But what did he do? He interpolated:, the text in the most gross and shameful manner, and added many words, upon which his argument depended, and without which his argument would have no foundation. He would not trouble the House with these things, but the Roman Catholics had been so often accused of crimes and misdemeanours, arising from their creed, that he thought it right to rebut them. The Noble Earl then read again from the sermon of Mr. Alford, which the congrega tion, in admiration of its ability, begged might be printed and published. He there quoted the creed of Pope Pius, show ing clearly that the word worship had been interpolated. The Noble Lord also read from the Catechism of the Council of Trent, showing that, so far from Roman Catholics being enjoined to worship idols, they were enjoined not to give any creature the honour which only belonged to God ; and pastors were commanded by the Council to instruct their flocks to this effect. Images were only countenanced because they created a more lively impression on the mind, and that the sufferings of Christ, and the exemplary conduct of the saints might be brought more vividly before the understanding. By this Council it was expressly commanded that saints were only to be invoked so that they might intercede with the Almighty by their prayers, and surely no Christian could feel dissatisfied at the practice of bringing the exemplary lives of the saints and f ethers of the Catholic Church constantly under the notice of the faithful. Lord KENYON interfered, and said it was irregular, and contrary to the rules of their Lordships' House, to read a sermon there which had been delivered elsewhere. The LORD CHANCELLOR desired the Noble Earl to proceed. The Earl of SHREWSBURY proceeded. There was not one point of evidence to bear out the assertion of the Noble Duke. The Noble Earl was proceeding to address their Lordships with respect to the question of superstition and ido latry, when Lord BROUGHAM interrupted him by saying, Really I begin to agree with the Noble Lord on the cress benches. There must be some limit to our debates. The Noble Earl is going into questions which have no reference to the debate before us. The Earl of SHREWSBURY said when he heard the Noble Lord opposite speak as he did with respect to the mea sure, he could not avoid occupyi ng th e i r ti me at t h e l engt h h e had done. But would the Noble Lord (Brougham) promise never to introduce anything that was irrelevant?—(Laughter.) Lord BROUGHAM would promise not to go into that which had no relation to the subject before their Lordships, namely, a defence of the Roman Catholics, in a debate having reference simply to education. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, the Noble Lord had better proceed. The Earl of SHREWSBURY then resumed, and promised that he should not detain their Lordships at much greater length. He held that he was simply giving utterance to the opinions which prevailed in Ireland. He hoped that they would make a careful and searching inquiry, and not allow them selves to be carried away by popular declamation into measures which could not fail to lead to the injury of the country to which the measure before them referred. He called upon the Government not to act as a vascillating Government, but as anxious to serve and promote the interest of the country in every way in their power. As a proof of their sincerity, he -. - sished they would withdraw the Bill intended to be applied to an unfortunate country, and bring forward in its place a mea sure which would meet with the wants, and which would not outrage the feelings of the majority of the people of Ireland. Lord BROUGHAM had no intention of treating the Noble Earl with disrespect, but he conceived that he had fallen into error with respect to the views he had taken. There was no thing so vexatious, and he often heard arguments carried out to a great length, as a speech of the greatest ability where the talents of the excellent speaker only win him on his way away from the question. It was the greatest of afflictions to have an able speaker turning his back upon the question, and dragging on his arguments far away from the question wider consideration. It was under that impression that he (Lord Brougham) interrupted the Noble Lord. What con nexion could there be between the abstract merits of the Catholic religion and the question before them ? It looked as if there were to be professors against the Roman Catholic religion to discountenance Popery and to denounce the religion. The Noble Earl (the Earl of Shrewsbury) took occasion to pass very high eulogiums upon the Roman Catholic religion, forgetting that either this or the other House of Parliament were the very last places where one should enter into a dis cussion upon the merits of any religion—a matter for which a man had only to answer for to his Maker. A discussion between Catholicism and Pro testantism was very far beside the question before them. They were, however, to have a discussion on this mea sure, to-night, because there was a protest on the minutes, which the Noble Earl thought it his duty to answer, and to try to prove that this measure was quite distinct from the May nooth question, which many supported who thought fit to oppose this measure. The Noble Earl said that he spoke against the Roman Catholic religion ; he (Lord Brougham) had supported the Maynooth question, but was he at the same time to set aside any portion of his own religious belief? He rejected the Roman Catholic religion on account of its immoral tendency— he would not say its immoral results. He held this to be one of the greatest measures in its apparently beneficial conse quences, that ever had been brought before the Parliament of the United Kingdom. To be told that the Roman Catholic clergy were against it was absurd. If all the Roman Catholic clergy and laity, and all the Protestant clergy and laity were gainst it, he would not the less support the views which were taken by those who introduced this measure. He did not support this mea sure a bit the more, because the Roman Catholic clergy had thought fit unfortunately to withdraw their support from it. He was not one of those who thought that they were never to promulgate education, without connecting religion with it. He not only supported this doctrine in Ireland, but also in England.—( Hear, hear.) He was of opinion that the children ought to be taught their ciphering or what was necessary at the school, but that the clergyman, belonging to the religion to which the parents adhered, ought to teach religion to the children. He was not one of those who said that this was a triumph of his principles, because the Government had decided in favour of the principles adopted in the University College and against the doctrine upheld in King's College. No, he thought that that did not apply to Ireland where circumstances were quite different. Was it excluding religion to say that there was a school where natural philosophy and mathematics were to be taught to the children from ten o'clock till four, and that then these children were to go home to their parents, who would have an oppor tunity of teaching, either themselves or through their clergymen, the religion which they professed, to their children ? They who cared for no religion would provide for all creeds in discriminately, they would not be anxious for the observance or distinction of any religion, Protestant, Roman Catholic, Pres byterian, Mahometan, Hindoo, Baptist, Anabaptist, and all and every persuasion, would be allowed to be followed indiscri minately and evasively. Secular knowledge could be taught without religion. Could any man doubt it? What did custom, what did precedent prove ? When a French master, a dancing mistress, a fencing master, or other such teachers of useful or ornamental accomplishments were engaged, did the parents require a man capable also of imparting religious know ledge ? Sorely if dancing and fencing could be harmlessly taught apart from religion, Greek and Latin could as satisfactorily be im parted. Another objection to the Bill was that propounded by the Noble Lord opposite in presenting some petitions that evening, requiring and urging that no religion should be adopted that was not founded on the system pursued at Oxford and Cam bridge. The promoters of such an argument evinced the most profound ignorance, for at Oxford and at Cambridge the most opposite systems were pursued. Thus in Oxford he ad mitted the principle of exclusive high Protestant teaching was adopted, and the Government measure was in direct contra distinction to it ; hut in Cambridge the system was the very reverse—men of all creeds could pass any examination except that of graduating, and take any honours, even to that of a wrangler, and stopping only at that of a fellowship, when the subscription to the articles of our Church was required. But lie must go a step farther and say, that the prospect of danger was exaggerated, and, indeed, unfounded; and the longer he lived the more he regretted that at the time of car rying the Union the Emancipation was not conceded also. The endowment of the College of Maynooth was not included in the Emancipation of 1829, and hence he was convinced had arisen all the grievances in Ireland. It had been said the Roman Catholic prelates and priests were obnoxious to the measure, and would oppose it with all their vigour as well as use all their endeavours to thwart it. To such a statement he replied " Credat Judius:Apella I" " Credat ay, quis credat I" —(Loud laughter.) In 1825 Lord Francis Egerton proposed that an annual grant should be conceded of 250,0001. to pay the Catholic clergy. Between 1,2001. and 1,500/. for the archbishops, 400/. to 8001. to bishops, 500/. to deacons, and 1501. to the parish priests. Here was a great scheme, endow ing the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church. And yet it was now urged that the present measure was a novelty, and that that Noble Lord to whom he had referred had departed from his original principles. When that accusation was urged he took occasion to inquire into the circumstances, and he found, on reference to the votes, the facts he had just stated, He would quote the testimony of the dead as well as the living on this subject. He might, perhaps, be permitted to pause for an instant, and to cast an eye over the memory of that illustri ous man who had just departed from among them ; and it had never fallen to his lot to know of any man of a more unsullied honour and spotless integrity conjoined with such great excel lence, as his illustrious friend who had now paid the debt to nature. Of all men he held the opinion most strongly anj most consistently to give liberty to oppressed Ireland h.; eman cipating the C a th o li cs—to g i ve equal rights to all, tier subjects, so that there should not be one law for the r',(l and another for the poor. ;To take the mischief from '.litt hands of the mischief maker—to endow the Catholic religion liberally, but prudently, was one of the darling objects of the life of the estimable man who was now departed— " Ut malignum ce'sare faciam otiosus reddam." No man had ever lived more respected for his opinions and con sistency, and died more respected than Earl Grey. Lord ELDON considered that when the Noble Lord who moved the second reading of the Bill, said it was without 'any religious distinctions as to sects, he would r e f er d him to one of th e l as t c l auses o f th e Act. According to his opinion, he had also, in reading the petition, mentioned the name of Cambridge, and it was not to be found in it. Lord BROUGHAM explained. The Earl of CA RNARVt )N felt it his painful duty to differ to-night from those Noble Lords with whom he was in the habit of voting. He felt sure that they had the welfare of the country at heart. He agreed with what fell from his Noble and Learned Friend, that it was impossible to overrate the importance of the measure before the House. He could not satisfy his mind, that whatever might be the intentions of her Majesty's Government, that the proposed measure would not be a severe blow struck at religion. Ile would contend that on public grounds they were bound to bring up the scholars in such a way as would render them good men and good citizens. It seemed to him, that as the State gave the best secular education that it could, so it should give to the youths the best religious education of which they might be sus ceptible. In every regulation the State was bound to advance the public good, and the popular interests could not be more effectually served than by training the youth up in religious feelings. The institutions ought to he founded on such a plan. His Noble Friend had presented a petition from certain res pectable men at Oxford, who opposed the measure on reli gious grounds. They felt that their duty to God and their country compelled:them to come forward on that occasion. He complained that no greater religious character had been given to the Bill. The Noble Lord had alluded to the sub ject of separate colleges. He quite agreed with him, that the harmony and good feeling likely to result from such a union were very desirable. But he could not consider that a mixed assembly of youths holding different religious opinions, was likely to conduce much to harmony. Separate colleges did not involve unjust ascendancy. There was no likelihood of the Protestant or Catholic clergy men co-operating to carry it out. The Catholic hierarchy denounced it, Mr. O'Connell denounced it, and there could be but little doubt that it would be ultimately a failure. The people of Ireland aceepted the Maynooth grant as a favour bat regarded this measure as a curse. When they saw such names as that of Bishop Murray enlisted in hostility against the Bill, could they doubt but that the measure was hurtful to the re ligious feeling of the people and was considered as most in judicious ? » professor of history would naturally give a colouring to faits according to his religion, and that colouring would he strongest where people's prejudices were most sensitive. He did not much see the necessity of a Catholic or Protestant professor for geology or anatomy, but he would certainly wish to see a good Christian fill the chair. He objected to the great patronage which the Bill conferred—and did not think the. power of nomination in the Crown afforded any guarantee against the propagation of improper doctrines. This had been feud •to be the case in foreign universities. The great objection he had to thei Bill was that th ere wou ld not b e any religious instruction a t or any religi ous en d owment, at least for several years, vil°. e o would be a reproach to this country. Religious should not he left to the hazard of the die." The Sts h t, e should, as respects these pupils, stand in loco parentis. Bill gave the bishops no veto, nor any other power whal e over professors, however wicked or infidel their principles. was not insensible to the difficulties with which the question was surrounded, and gave credit to the Government for the courage in bringing it forward ; but he could not help think?, that the provision for religious instruction was wit ° ( 1 instructi o , inadequate, and that some means might be devil o which would remove this cardinal objection frola Bill. Education resembled the giant in the 61 % tales, who killed his parents. Education was perniei°! if not properly managed, but could be rendered most servicealii: and efficient by being well directed.--( Hear, hear.) Noble Earl then alluded to the question of education in France; and said he was happy to see that religion was reviving in 6° country. On last Easter Monday there were 1,000 CO nieants in the church of Notre Dame; and the provinew churches of France, which were some years ago deserted , were crowded. He could on ly repeat that he did not suspect 111 . ° 1 the Noble Duke and the Noble Lord at the head of the Colorea; Department had an y o th er o bj ect i n v i ew i n b r i ng i ng forwar" the measure than t o b ene fit th e country. H e s h ou ld t herefor e move, and he did so with great pain, that the Bill be read lb° day six months. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE considered that the met sure before the House was but an instalment of the measure r which he hoped the Government intended to bestow upon land. The great object of the Bill was to secure the education of the people of Ireland ; the second was the necessity of pro' portioning that education to the different classes of which o °' ciety was composed ; the third—and on which this questio! mainly hinged— o f l a yi ng d own t hi s system i n a mo de tha t : should make it acceptable to all classes, preventing the boo which they tende re d f rom b e i ng l oa d e d by regulations and l aid which might t urn consc i ent i ous men from receiving thel benefits which it was i n t en d e d to con f er. S ome peop l e were ° opinion that the education of the great mass of the people scal , neither proper nor coven i ent; b ut t h e contrary opinion Ow. prevailed. The sec on d po i n t— t h at o f providing education Ol e the middle classes. Whil s t th ey h a d prov id e d the mean s o{ education fig the poorer classes they had neglected the educatio n t of the middle classe s by l eav i ng it s support to t h e class %chich' was intended to be ne fit. Th ere was now a d eman d n ot only among the laity but among the clergy of Ireland, for oni:i thing, ou the part of the Government, which would aff e „ the means of instruction in the practical sciences, which men might earn their own livelihood ; and o f permanently useful to society. Thi s , th en , was t h e object c i t the present meas ure , b u t l e t hi m te ll t h e N o bl e L or d. tit ° this desirable object would not be effected if that educafion was made sectarian in the slightest degree. If there were pr o ' fessors appointed to teach one religion, and colleges in which one religion was taught, th e worst resu l ts cou ld not fa il to euse. With respect to th e p e titi on f rom some of the mem b ers of the University of Oxford, clauses had been inserted, making ,F ; r:: vision for the r e li g i ous i nstruct i on o f t h e pupils, without 1:0117 it exclusive. He mus t a d m i t t h at t h ere was one part o f t . Bill upon which he lo o k e d w ith appre h en sion--he meant tn,: appointment of the whole of the professors by her Alsie st Y Government. He did not question the motives of the Govern' ment ; he had no doubt —nay, he was sure it was their intention' it was to their i n t eres t t o appoint men well qualified to perfo rm their duties ; but there was a disposition in Ireland, wh ie , could not be well ro o t e d ou t, to attr ib ute every appo i n tinews and especially appoi n t men t s o f thi s ki n d , to G overnme nt Pi t v tronage. He hoped that a p rov i s i on wou ld b e introduced o the Bill, now or at an early period, for concentrating a ll tbec e colleges int* the form of one national university, which,' was convinced, wo u ld e ff ec t t h e greatest goo d . Thu ;t " College, Dublin, mi g ht b e ma d e t h e focus, but b s , t there w a s an o bj ec ti on to t h at course , a college ra i g h , be erected in th e v i c i n i ty o f Dublin, where heads of the other colleges might meet at one conitu e centre for the management of her affairs, and for confetti!!g degrees on those who deserved them. It should be a college s/ itself, but the representation of the three colleges. .!. carrying out of this s ugges ti on cou ld not f a il to h ave a colien l ;', tory effect upon Ireland.--( Hear, hear, and c h eers .) 13ef he concluded, he w i s h e d 'in • press that a system of secu lar education would a l so b e most d es i ra bl e to that co untr y ' It should be in accordance with the feeling of the country If afford education to every class of her Majesty's subjects. Is this Bill was carried out with care it would give to the Pelly an influence much wan t e d i n th at country. H e c ordia l ,' supported this Bill, at the same time wishing that they Old give it the utmost care in its ultimate operation. He their... their Lordships for the attention which they had afforded 11 " - de t ° Lord CLIFFORD wished to offer his unfeigned gratitu the Noble Lord who had introduced this measure. He bact: i ; hesitation in giving his support to the second reading of t " . Bill. He thought it a b so l u t e l y necessary, h owever, t h a t tb,r; should disabuse the p eo pl e o f I re l an d o f t h e not i on t h a t r u st people of this country were their enemies. He wished tho his Noble Friend op p os i te wou ld cons id er b e f ore he Shan • dad press his amendme n t th a t thi s Bill s h ou ld b e rea d this six months. Lord BEAUMONT said that he did not intend to ar o into the details of the question, because the remarks which by would have made were more eloquently laid before than, le the Noble Marqui s near hi m . H e cou ld not, h owever , l e o, distinctly stating his unqualified approval of the measure. approval of it was not founded on the narrow grounds taken 11 the Noble Lord w h o i ntro d uce d i t, that it was particilory suited to Ireland. He approved of it for the great prina d which it contai ne d, app li ca bl e equally to England and I re lan namely, the abando nmen t o f re li g i ous tests, and the remove' d by mixed educ a ti on , o f t h ose an i mos i t i es which arose o nt o sectarian differen ces . Th at was t h e ch i ef groun d of toil approval. Hi s N o bl e F r i en d b e hi n d h i m had tres this question as a Roman Catholic question, bu t eli (Lord Beaumont) was o f op i n i on t h at i t s h ou ld as °d ills be considered a Prot es t an t quest i on . H e t h oug h t that t ip , Bill most properly took away f rom t h e pr i ests t h at power of terference with secular matters which.they at present most ld properly possessed. H e wou ld not d eta i n t h em, an d h e 00 ° A ° , 0 only state that it was th e on ly measure t h at cou ld be Wile -1,0 Ireland in its present s t a t e ; an d, wou ld to H eaven t h a t it is been carried out in England. The Bishop of NORWICH said that from what he i l3lll O heard all his scruples we re gone , an d h e wou ld not h e sitate bt giving this measure his most unqualified support. He theag ti that this measure would tend to create these bonds of fil-tr which should exi s t b e t ween th e peop l e o f t hi s country and It land ; and he thought it wou ld i ntroduce into that COl o ' the spirit of Christianity, which should prevail there. pi Lord LYTTELTON said that he wished to ask a question.o 13 1 the Noble Lord (Stanley). There was a clause in the g which provided th a t suc h stu d ents as were d es i rous o f receir l : t religious instruction co u ld a tt a i n i t. O ne wou ld think riot they need not attend any religious instruction if they did p a think proper. In another clause it provided that the relig t ba should be approved of by the parents or guardians of t he pupils. He wished to know if the pupil should receiv e spa sanction of his parent or guardian, and whether the govern body then could compel the pupil ? Afor Lord STANLEY said th at f ac iliti es s h ou ld b e affords t o giving religious instruction. C ompu l s i on did not rest with governing body. t tsl 4 The original motion for th e secon d rea di ng was t h en pu-_ A carried without a divi s io n , an d th e i r L ords hi ps a dj ou rned Twelve o'clock. PARLIAMENT TAR Y DI V ISION6' (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commollo MONDAY, JULY 21. POOR-LAW AMENDMENT (SCOTLAND) BILL. ,o , Order for Third Readin g read ; M o ti on made, and Questi on posed, " That the Bill b e now read a second time :"—Aine il Qaq: proposed, to leave out th e wor d " now, " and at the end of tilt or tion to add the words " upon M onday next : " —Question put, d:., the word ' now' sta n d p art of the Question. " The Mouse divi d e MAJORITY-AYES, 33. Baring, W. B. F lower, Sir James M`Neill, Dinca,,r Benbow, John F orester, G . C. W. Meynell, CaPtal,re itentinck, Lord G. F remant l e, Si r T. Pringle, Alexan`_, Bowes, Joint Fuller, A. E. Rolleston, Colon. lirotherton, Joseph Gottlburn, Henry Eons, Captabt Bruce, Lord E. Hawes, B 4 Scott, Francis Clerk, Sir G. Henley, J. W. Stuart, Lord J. . 4 Clive, Viscount Hass e y, Th omas Warburte. i, lierni Cripps, W. Hutt, William Wortley, Dick, Quintin Jo nes , C apta i n Duke, Sir J. Li nco l n, E ar l C Duncombe, 0. Lockhart, William Mackenzie,rrd,l,e.e t T y l , John LE o Eov v n ld h i r. .srrt .. MINORITY-NOES, 7. Berkeley, Craven Wakley, Thomas TELLS3' . _,d Berkeley, Grantley Wawn, J. T. HaStie, AreOA' liltedlie, Henry Yorke, Henry B. Dundas, F. Sheridan, R. B. JEWISH DISILITIES REMOVAL BILL. Or, Order for Third gleading Aß read ; Motion made, and Questi° l 6eni posed, " That the Bill b e now read the third time :"—Alne" e nd proposed, to leave out from th e word " now, " and at the the Question to add the words " upon this day three inou'oP Question put, " That thfs word ' now' stand part of the Ques ts The House divided : MAJORITY—AYES, 44. Aguouby, 11. A. Graham, Sir J. Muntz, G. F. Barinr o e, W. B. Greene, Thomas ' Nicholl, John. o ot Li'lntinck, Lord G. Hamilton, W. J. Northland, VIS... c Bowes, John Hamilto n , L or d C . O'Connell, 1tt...:: Bowring, Dr. Hawes, Benjamin Pechell, Capi n Brisco, M. Herbert, Sidney Peel, Sir It. Brotherton, J. Ilinde, J. 11. Pusey, Philip Cardwell, Edward Howard, P. 11. Smith, T. B. . 6 . 0 r. Clerk, Sir George Hum e , J ose ph Somerville, Sil. Cripps, William Hutt, Willi am Th es i ger, Sir r • Ferguson, Sir It. Kelly, Fitzroy Warburton, It; Fitzroy Henry Lincoln, Earl of Wawn, John T• Flower, Sir J. 111‘Neill, Duncan TELLERS. Forster, Matthew Mastennan, John Young, Jelin r Frenl Mackenzie, intle, Sir T. Moffatt, Georg e W Goulburn, Henry Morris, David MINORITY-NOES, 11. Acland, Sir T. Dickingen, F. 11. Tollemacl/6 01 1113 Borthwick, Peter Henley, J. W. Dane, nli. J. V. Hope, AleXantior Tnt.5.... • Darby, George Pringle, A. It• 11 * Inglig. Sir • 4 Dawnay, W. H. Spooner, Richard Sibthorp, Cololl._, On the 19th inst., at P a ll- ma ll, th e C oun t ess o f Du° My"' of a daughter. ° olj c4 . On the 11th inst., at Argyle- square , M rs . Min _..a Parker, of a daughter, still-b orn . t Dug" - On the 16th inst., at Liverpool, Mrs. Thomas of a son. lads of On the 17th inst., at Clare P r i or y, S u ff o lk, the Lieutenant-Colonel Baker, of a son. a AliltlE P. '40 14 On the Ist inst., at St. Paul's Church, Halifa:g , l o tto , Scotia, Lieutenant Walter Fran c is Robinson, to Ch it/ 10 0 third daughter of Capt a i n M aynar d, R . N. , o f HalifaX , Scotia. . On the 16th inst., at Clontarf Church, Brevet -31 1f t e - r o f O'Connor, th e 25th R eg i ment, to J ane only daug ,. Mrs. Lawton, of Clontarf, Dublin. 14, On the 16th inst., at Banff, John Stevenßou, Escl•ti' f nl don, to Charlotte Eliza, third daughter of James Esq., Banff. v: On the 17th inst., at St. Saviour's, Southwark, -- 111 r* Jackson, of Digh-street, Borough, to Elizabeth , (laughter of Mr. S. B. Jaze, of Spitalfields. of DIED. sol i 0 On the Bth inst., at Helford, in Cornwall, Rober t t to o Charles Sholl, Esq., collector of her Majesty's Cus that port, aged 16. 011; On the 4th of May last, at Sholapore, Cal 3ollll Fraser, Esq., sth Madras Light Cavalry. f A lf rev On the sth inst., C a r o li ne A ugus t a , th e wife ° Corpe, Esq., of Kennington-common. ot ioF On the 7th inst., at Abe r y s t w ith, M ar y Anne? ,f daughter of the late Rev. Evan James, of Stepne.Y., On the 16th inst., at Kill ev b egs , D onega l, Ireland , sr l. der Murray, Esq , M.P., of nroughton. Or e ' On the 16th inst., in Woburn-place, Russell - sq sanna, relict of Francis Thwaites, Esq., aged 83. 000 Sg On the 16th inst., at Ashbourne, Derbyshire, 1 .3 Armett, Esq., of the Lowe, Congleton, Cheshire. On the 17th inst , at Evington, Kent, Sir Job'' Honywood, Bart., aged 38. e i TO , ll* Lc , A . .. MURDO pi .1: , •'t). 112 at Tfie Sun 015eevot1 Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the Middlesex, Tualay, July 22, 1845. tetu,A.( t 71,1 4on t he s it} r l S ' 7*!-C 4 rh C GAI Te l Th e 11E p( Th( their 1 linnt, Lai lasi he ss the 8,156/ reti re t hetloi i ,Ther -roPrit 11 :P a3 ' 1 41 a a n „ c debts e ft' , 1 %AIM x_COBt bi ViCitt h ri el ,Der e, it TN *1,4141 At e „,,,, 4 , 11). 0 . 1