The Sun. — London, England, 1850-05-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, May 14. Their Lordships as THE HOLlDAYSsembled at Five o'clock. In answer to Lord STANLEY, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he should on Friday move the adjournment of the House to Mon day se'nnight. PAROCHIAL ASSESSMENTS. Lord TORTiteIAN moved fir the appointment of a Committee to consider the law relating to parochial assessments. This Committee was necessary to assist their Lordships in coming to a decision on the subject-matter of certain Bills which might come up to them from the other House of Parliament. It was manifest that if a deteriora tion of rateable property took place there must be some alteration in the assessment of those rates—(Hear, hear) —and therefore it was necessary that they should go carefully into those matters. The heaviest burdens upon land arose out of the law of settlement, and it was impossible to legislate upon the subject without coming to some understanding upon the subject of rating. It was desirable that rating should take place equitably upon all species of property, and that there should be One uniform system of rating. At present, while some parishes paid 23 per cent. on their rental to the poor rates, others only paid 2 per cent. These circum stances, he thought, justified him in calling their attention to the subject of parochial assess ment. Among other subjects which would come under the consideration of the Committee would be the rating of railways and the rating of stock in trade. Then they should endeavour to devise some method of altering the present system of constant change of the basis on which the rate is made; he thought no change should be made without cause shown for such change before some tribunal. He also thought they should consider .how best they could get rid of mere forms by which rates were quashed on legal technicalities. Then there were the questions of the rating of small tenements, and of who was to make, to collect, or to alter the rate. He thought all the - property of the country should contribute its fair proportion towards the maintenance of the poverty of the country. With regard to the county rate, that was in point of fact a part of the poor-rate. The Noble Lord concluded by moving for a select Committee. The Bishop of LONDON supported the motion. The Aarquis of LANSDOWNE was understood to say that he had no objection to the motion. Earl FITZ WILLIAM hoped the investigations before the Committee would not be conducted in such a manner as to lead either to union or national rating.—(Hear, hear.) He wished to lead their Lordships to con sider whether it was desirable that there should be a poor rate at all, or a highway rate, or any separate rate, and whether it would not be better to re-organize the whole system of rating for local purposes. Be be lieved it would be better to have one parochial rate only, out of which certain sums should be awarded for the maintenance of the poor, of the highways, and of the Church. He thought it would be better to do away with all special rates, and to have one local treasury to defray all. these charges. The Earl of MALMESBURY did not agree with the Noble Lord as to the necessity of a Committee. They were all too well informed on the subject to need an investigation, and he thought the Government should have brought in some measure on their own responsibility to relieve those who suffered from the present system of rating, which pressed most hardly upon certain interests. He thought the poor-rate should be levied by a poundage upon every description of property and income. He would recommend the Noble Lord, when he acted as chairman of this committee, to avoid mixing up the question of poor-rwe with that of any other rate. Lord HATHERTON thought it would be desirable to institute this inquiry, in order to enable the House properly.tojk sit %jai any rate Bill that might come be fore it. There could be no doubt but that any parish which, by mismanagement, had increased the amount of its rates, would be exceedingly glad, by means of a national or general rate, to throw the burden on the shoulders of its neighbours. Let them look at Ireland; if they had not localised the rate then they would by this time have had a fearful battle between the property and the population of the country. He hoped his Noble Friend would endeavour to increase the description of property at present liable to rating. Tha motion was then agreed to. PETITIONS. The Earl of M LIIESBURY pre3ented a petition from Mr. George Hutchinson, the author of " A Plea for the Equal:sation of the Poor-rat^s," praying the House to investigate the merits of his proposition. The Eirl of WARWICK and BROOKE presented a petition from the agriculturists of Warwickshire, com plaining of distress, and praying for a re-enactment of protective duties on the importation of curn and other articles of agricultural produce. PARISH CONSTABLES BILL. On the motion of the Earl of ROMNEY, this Bill passed through Committee. Several verbal amendments were introduced into the Bill. SUNDAY TRADING BILL. On the motion of the Earl of HARROWBY, the House reaolvecl itself into Committee on this Bill. Lord BE A.UMONT said that as several alterations had been introduced iuto the Bill, as, for instance, a clause had been introduced, inflicting a penalty of ss. per beard on a barber fur every beard he might shave on a Sunday, he thought the Bill ought to be recommitted in a Com mittee of the whole House, so as to give the House an Opportunity of deciding whether it would consent to such a tariff of beards. The CLIAIRSIAN then reported progress, the House resumed, and the Bill was ordered to be re-committed on Thursday. JUDGMENTS (IRELAND) BILL. The Marquis of LAgSDOWNE,'in moving the second reading of this Bill, stated that its object was to facilitate the bales of lend which were at present going on in Ireland with so much benefit, by attracting capital to that country. After referring to the serious evils which arose out of the existing law of judgments, the Noble Marquis briefly explained the remedies which the Bill proposed to apply to those grievances. The effect of the Bill, he said, would be greatly to increase the number and value of marketable titles in Ireland, and, in proportion as the number and value of market able titles were increased, in the same proportion would the" proprietors of land in that country be benefited. All he asked of their Lordships in now proposing the second reading of the Bill was that they would merely express their wish to apply a remedy to a great and crying evil which at this particular moment hung heavily upon a class whom it had always been the wish as well as the policy of their Lordships to conciliate. The Earl of GLENGALL remarked, that it was no reeommenda.tiou of the Bill in his eyes to be told that it would facilitate the working of the Encumbered Estates Act; for he believed that of all the Bills that had ever disgraced Parliament that was the worst. It was neither more nor less than an act of confiscation. By the operation of that measure, estates worth 25 or 30 years' purchase had been sold at from 11 to 14 years' purchase. He hoped to live to se?, the day when the people of Ireland would meet on College-green to wit ness the burning of the Parliamentary titles by the hands of the common hangman. The Noble Earl then sugee.e€ , c 1 sev eral amendments in the Bill before the House, and laid them on the table with the view of their being proposed in Committee. The Bill wes then read a seen.cl time; to be committed On Monday after Whitsun week. ESTATES LEASING (IRELAND) BILL. The Marquis of LANSDO moved the second reading of the Estates Lossing (Irela nd ) Bill, the object of which, he explained, was to increase the powers of persons having a limited interest in landed property to greet leases. Lnrd MONTEAGLE intimated his intention to pro pose amendmente in Committee. Lord KEDESDALE objected to certain provisions of the Bill, which of his lif e , to would enable a person, at the last hour thereby deprivinga his lease eout a farm for ninety-nine years, To successor of the benefit of the property. promote farmwos necessary improvements no term exceeding twenty }ears The Earl GLENGALL also , gave notice of amendments. He thought the Bill mi g ht b e construe d as allowing. a tena n t who had the residue of a lease to demise. that to. another, who old obtain a lease for ninety-nine years ag a i nst the landlordcu After a few words from the ar. Mquis of LANs- DO WNE, The Bill was read a second time. DISTRESSED UNIONS ADVANCES BILL. On the motion for going into Committee on the is D tressed Unions Adva nces an d Repayment of Advance; (Ireland) Bill, Lord MONTEAGLE expressed his conviction that without considerable amendments the Bill would be pro ductive of evil rather than good. He wished particu larly to remind their Lordships that the great bulk of the debts to which the measure related had not been in curred by the proprietors of Ireland, but had under the ,Lahaur-rate Act been forced on the land of Ireland by She vice-guardians selected by the Government. In illus tration he referred to the cases of Ballina, Kilrush, and Listowell, where the debt bad been greatly increased 'under the administration of these officers. Then the con tracts had been entered into at rates rising 10, 20, 30, and sometimes 40 per cent. above the market price. But on converting a bad into a good securit y , it was pre posterous t o pay at the rate of a bad security. The Bill -gave the .Treaauty power to apportion the debt among • the unions, baronies , electoral divisions , and townlands subject to no responsibility or restraint, an d it would require Mr. Babbage's calculating machine to solve the complicated,qu est i ons which might be raised under the Bill. Ilow such a Bill should have received the asse nt a o d representativesho h ope d of of the the people he could not under stand;(Zoclause would bo introduced allowing what might b e ' by Bill to be brought under thene the Treasury under the after. review of Parliament here- After a fow words from the Earls of GLENGALL and WICKLOW, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE remarked that it • was, necessary . to make a distinction between the distressed unions and those which were better able to discharge their obligati ons, and no doubt need be entertained that the discretionary pews vested in the Treasury would be exercised • with due regard to the equity o each case. When the Noble Lord referred to the manner in which money h a d b een expended in Ireland under certain Acts of Parliament, he oughr. to have borne in mind the circumst ances under which those Acts were passed. They were intended to rivet a great calamity, and the Noble Lord himself sug gested no other mode of coping with that calamity. I t was 'admitted at the time that the machinery by which the Acts of the Lrgislature were to be put in motion was clogged by many unevoid <elo difficulties, but, after all, it did not appear that any serious - abuses had oc curred. If the proprietors and the tenantryof Ireland had, in some razes, been called upon to contribute to an un. TH E SUN, LONDON, prosperity, rests on the re-establishment of a just sys tem of import duties.' I do not deny, or wish in any way to shrink from the responsibility which rests upon her Majesty's Government for the line of policy they have adopted; but no such proposition has been made to the House of Commons, and the House of Commons has not rejected any such proposition." Now the proposition which he (Mr. G. Berkeley) had to bring before the House was one that could not be misunderstood by those out of doors, who were anxious to distinguish their friends from their foes. He asked the House why no such proposi tion had been made before? Were not the steps to such a proposition attempted by Hon. Gentlemen oppo site? Did they not approach the question when they asked for a fair consideration of the depression now existing in the agricultural districts? Did they not ap proach the question more than once by motions? And were not those steps met by the Government in every stage, and in every instance, almost with contempt, but certainly with decided opposition?—(Hear, hear.) The distress was asserted at the opening of Parliament. Was not the suffering of the agricultural interest alluded to in the Speech from the Throne? Was it not thereafter denied that distress did exist?—(Hear, hear.) He asked the House, did not the Government, and those Hon. Gentlemen who supported her Majesty's Government, assert that the landed proprietors—the Lords and Com mons of this country—made and kept up a vain and vexatious cry of distress for the sole and sordid and miserable purpose of maintaining their high rents? —(Hear, hear.) He asked the House was not the landed interest outraged and insulted by that as sertion?—(Hear, hear.) A more insulting or un worthy assertion had never emanated from the Go vernment benches.—(Hear, hear.) He asked, did not the Government close the door against any attempt at bringing the question forward?—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, in his reply, had gone on to say, " I think it would neither be desirable to go back from free trade to prohibition or restriction, nor advisable to dissolve Parliament in order to ask the opinion of the country upon the subject. That is the conclusion to which I have come. With respect to the suffering which has been stated to exist, it is neither inconsistent with my expeetations, nor inconsistent with what I have heard, that in various parts of the country deep suffering does exist, and that that suffering is partly—and I should say in part only—owing to recent changes in our commer cial laws." There, then, at last they had an admission from the Prime Minister that suffering did exist—an admission of a matter that had been frequently denied by'him, and the landed proprietors were, by that ad mission in some respect relieved from the insult of being charged with striving merely to keep up the price of their rents. Were it not that he felt the greatest re spect for the Noble Lord's character, both in public and in private—a respect which he was proud to say he entertained—he should have been disposed to draw a peculiar inference from what followed in the Noble Lord's reply. It was this—" I believe that these changes were in their general aspect inevitable. I believe that ten years ago it might have been foreseen that this country, as it became more opulent and commercial, would require great changes in that direction, and my object was at that time to make the transition accom panied by as little suffering and distress as possible. But the advice I gave with that view was rejected, not only with contempt, but with indignation." Were it not that he knew the Noble Lord was iucapable of enter taining such a feeling, he should have been led to sup pose that in that paragraph he had spoken with some feeling of bitterness towards those gentlemen who hal foregone his advice.—(Hear, hear.) But there never was a time when the country required so much attention as it did at present. Agricultural distress was so general, so universal—they were trenching upon such immediate ruin, that there was no pos sibility of avoiding attending to their condition. The union workhouses were full to overflowing. The people were clamorous for a reduction of rents—the labourers were working at reduced wages. Wheat had become reduced in price so low that the farmers could no longer grow it with any profit. The average price was now about 101. a load, and the importation of foreign corn showed no probability of becoming less in amount. There was no prospect of any reward for agriculturists. What, then, were they to do? They looked for some notice from the Government, but they had it not. They looked for some alleviation from the Legislature, but they had it not. They then looked to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and hoped that in his budget they would find some boon for them, some alleviation of their con dition, But what did they find? What did the Free trade Government do fur them, after all their promises of retrenchment and economy? Why they did nothing. They gave them bricks when they asked for bread.— (Hear.) But in removing the brick duties they benefitted only some of the landed proprietors, not the tenant-farmers; but the great bulk of the benefit went to the manufacturers and the- manufacturing towns. And having thus adverted to the conduct of the Government, he would allude to the course pursued in pretending to accoant for the prevailing distress. The landlords were first told that all they had to do to meet it was to reduce their rents. He maintained that no re duction of rent would have alleviated it; and that no Government and no Member of that House had any right to ask private individuals to meet difficulties which their public legislation had occasioned. It was not, and it could not be, a question of rent.—(Hear, hear.) And, moreover, had the rents been reduced to such an extent as that the landed proprietors would have been ruined, the agriculturists would not still have been benefited, and the manufacturers would soon find that the ruin which bad affected the agriculturists must reach them in turn. They had been told that the expe riment would be finally successful. He denied that it Was an experiment. But whatever it was, it had lasted three years, and it had been sufficiently tried and found unsuccessful. When was it to end ?—(flear ) If they were not satisfied with the ruin which their hybrid mea sure had already occasioned, when, he asked, would they be content? Why, there was not a single speck upon the political horizon which gave them hope that it would ever be successful. The distress having become 4 last too evident to be longer denied, it was admitted. It was admitted now, when farm sales were taking place every day, and the tenant-farmers could not pay any rents, and they were told for comfort that the present low prices of provisions would not last, and that high prices would shortly come again. Why, the free-traders bad set out with stating that low prices were what they wished to maintain.—((sheers.) That was the boon which they promised to bestow upon the country. But now they turned round, and said, that things would be better, and prices would be higher soon.—(Hear.) Ac cording to that reasoning, the Government would allow that it was possible to buy gold too dear; and that pro visions might be so low as not to be remunerative to the producer in this country. But how were they to abate the evil unless they gave their labourers sufficient protection? He, however, was not about to ask the House to reconsider their erroneous policy. He only asked that due considera tion might be given to it, and that a Committee might be appointed to advise some remedy for the great dis tress under which the agricultural interest was suffer ing. If a cheap loaf was not the object of free trade, he hoped that her Majesty's Government would explain what its object was? One member of that Government had said that he did not expect that prices would fall so low as they had done, and on that ground alone he thought that they were entitled to demand a revision of the present law. If the present prices were to continue —1 we were still to be dependent upon the foreigner— the farmers would soon be obliged to give up cultivation, and what would become of England then? They were told that a bread-tax could no longer be tolerated —that protection was dead and buried. How came it then that there were articles of food upon which a duty was still levied? He held that the necessity of protection was acknowledged by the list of articles on which a duty a as imposed —a list comprehending the names of thirty-six substances produced by manufacturing and thirty-five by agricultural industry. If it were to be said that they had no right to impose taxation upon the food of the people, what right had they to levy taxation upon the edible articles in question? If free trade therefore were an experiment, he asked why had they not tried that experiment in full? Why did they not allow the farmer to have the full benefit of what was fairly and really free trade, instead of sup porting the present hybrid measure, which, if persisted in, would go far to ruin all the interests of the state. Not content, however, with this partial application of the free-trade system, they had run counter to every dictate of honour, justice, and religion, by admitting slave-grown produce—thus erring upon moral as well as upon economical grounds. No doubt it would be said, so far as regarded the latter consideration, that the present low prices would not continue. The last re turns, however, showed them still to be in a declining condition, and although the markets at thi s moment ex hibited a tendency to look up, that fact w as , i n a great measure, to be attributed to the late remarkable preva lence of easterly winds preventing rapid importation. Prices might partially get up in this way, but they would find that after the next harvest they would fall lower than ever they had done. In America and other coun tries a greater breadth of ground was sown with wheat during any past year; and he felt cert a i n , f rom a ll they had not as yet by any me ans seen t h e worst saw, o a r n stas that regarded the prices of agricultural produce. Now, what had been the predictions of the leading ad vocates of free trade as to the results of their doctrine? They had told the peop l e that the land woul d be a land flowing with milk and honey — that there Iwas happi ness and prosperity in store for every one under a free trade regime. Was such the Faso ? No • the reality was as different from the prom ise as was the reality of the Mississippi estate Eden , d escribed in Martin Chuzzlewit," from the account given of it b y the land " speculator. All that free trade proved was, that its ad vocatesttheir conclusions—thoroughly d wrong,heir premises—wrong in in fact, from first to last.—(Hear, h ea r.) Let the House remember the promises made to the farmers by the Honourable Gen tleman the Member for the West Riding. He pro mised them a reign of happy abundance—he promised the labourers an increase of wages.—(Hear.) Had this promise come true ?—(Hear, hear.) Were not the labourers in some counties now reduced to six shillings a week?—a sum which gare them less money, in propor vdtaehlaaurteo onfe ment. e d f wor k e e t propor tion, to buy the cheap loaf than they had before to pur chasehewAi As when supposed tthheehew was taken ah r k m eenr increasedas , away—(Bear, w a y a _s activityi ( t to e a be r, hear)—or was it to be supposed that they h would bear with patient pas s i veness any such proceeding t of the Legialatur e ?—(H ear, hear.) yet, now on t h e et e thepar House observe ho w every impatient word d w hieh f 11 from the farmer s was marked and scrutinise d ( e He hear.) The Hon. G en tl eman the Member"' Riding had told the for the West agriculturist s that they were as dull ' as the oxen which they drove, and the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Manchest er h ad stigmatised theni cowards; yet no sooner were the farmers found to as becoming restive in their turn, than their speeches were branded by the free-traders as containing threats of a re vclutionary character. As soon as the farmers, who, cif all classes had the most rEason to use hasty expressions, did hold language of the kind, the free. traders,who ought to be the last, were the first to take the matter up; and already he found that there was an intention announced of moving that the yeomanry forces should no longer be tolerated,—(Hear, hear.) Why, he asked, was a hasty expression or so to be so seriously visited, and that by men who had been such great sinners in the same way themselves ? What he wondered at was, that the yeo manry and farmers had been quite so long. Not that he advocated an appeal to violence, but he did believe that if farmers had bestirred themselves in time, they would not have found themselves in the position in which they now stood. The advice given to them to continue to agitate until they should find themselves properly and fairly represented in the House of Commons was good advice, and he hoped that it would be acted upon.— (Hear, hear.) He challenged any free-trader to point to one instance of any of our institutions having been improved by free trade. The state of the country, par ticularly in the rural districts, told quite a different story from that of improvement. (The Honourable Gentleman then proceeded at considerable length to read long tabular statements of figures, purport ing to show the great depreciation in the value of landed property in the county of Suffolk since the ad vent of free trade, the general results being that the capital employed in agriculture in the county had been reduced in value from 6,418,0001. to 4,258,6671.) The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to quote various letters from different parts of the country, giving accounts of the depressed state of agriculture. A correspondent from Gloucestershire, a gentleman of high authority, had written, that unless some alteration were made in the existing laws, half of the farmers would be ruined in the course of the next twelve months. Many had been already obliged to sacrifice their little private property to pay their rents. How, indeed, could it be otherwise, when one corn-merchant in Bristol had imported great quantities of corn at 3s. a bushel. The next letter was from a farmer, near Ely, in Cambridgeshire. This gentleman wrote that that county was fast approaching ruin, and that the farmers could not go on with the pre sent low prices of agricultural produce. While the dif ference between a remunerating and an unduly low price was hardly felt by the consumer ' it was ruin to the farmer, the labourer, and to all trades depending upon agricul ture. He (Mr. G. Berkeley) therefore asked the House to take these represertations into consideration, and to deliberate as to whether it was not time for this experiment of free trade to be put an end to. It was time, in his opinion, that a line should be drawn limiting the distress of the country. If they could not economise, and reduce the burdens upon land so as to allow the home. farmer to compete with the foreigner, he called upon them to give native industry sufficient protection. Let them not persist in refusing to confiss that they had been in the wrong, and that they had been pursuing a course which was eminently qualified to prostrate the principal interest of the kingdom. At all events the House would not, he hoped, deceive themselves with the idea that the agitation now going on was about to be put au end to.—(Great Protectionist cheering.) He was aware that for the present they would be forced to allow the present hybrid measure to continue, because the Go vernment used unconstitutional means to force its majorities.—(Hear, hear.) Those who were afraid of adissolution were obliged to vote for Ministers.—(Hear, hear.) Why, was not there a letter recently published from one of the Members for Westminster, stating that the Government had forced him to vote for them against his conscience?—(Hear, hear, oh, oh, and laughter.) For his own part, he would always rather yield his seat than vote against the dic tates of his opinions.—(Hear.) It was time, however, if Hon. Gentlemen were to be thus coerced into voting, that something should be done for the reform of the House itself. It was not without great pain that he now found himself imperatively obliged to sever—in one re spect at least—his political connexion with the Noble Lord at the head of the Government. Notwithstanding he brought forward this motion—still claiming to be a free-trader—(oh, oh, and cheers)—still advocating the cause of free trade, which the country did not yet Possess, and upon which odium had been thrown, by the insufficient manner in which it had been carried out. At present the policy in operation gave a cheap loaf to one portion of the country at the expense of the other. In familiar language, they were robbing Peter to pay Paul—taking from one man the produce of his acres to enrich therewith his neighbour. The Govern ment, he believed, did not think they had the power to put their theory of free trade into practice, and under those circumstances they ought to retrace their steps, and give the suffering interest he represented some chance of better days. By all that the Govern ment and the House held most dear, he implored them to re-consider the present measure of free trade, and show some sympathy for those who in times of war and trouble were England's best supporters. He repre sented an interest from whose ranks our armies and martial forces were supplied, but which was now fast sinking to decay and ruin. The industry of England was no longer flourishing, and foreigners were reaping the benefits of our legislation, for which they thanked the Hon. Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire. In conclusion, he trusted that his motion would at all events have the effect of showing the farmers out of doors, to whom they would have to look for assistance, and of exhibiting how gentlemen who had come to that House pledged to protect native industry had for feited their pledges. Of this he felt assured, that if the Noble Lord at the head of the Government would retrace his policy in favour of that interest which had stood by so many Governments in times gone by—if he would give protection to all classes alike, and hold out some hope for the future, he could appeal with a clearer conscience for the blessing of Pro vidence on the councils over which he had so long pre sided.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member concluded by moving, " That this House will resolve itself into a Com mittee of the whole House, to take into consideration the Acts relating to the importation of foreign corn." Colonel DUNNE seconded the motion. Mr. HASTIE (Paisley) had heard no grounds laid by the Hon. Member for West Gloucestershire which should justify the House in acceding to his proposal; on the contrary, he had only heard that which. was going the round of all the newspapers in the country—broad assertion without data. He admitted that si.t the pre sent moment, as for some six months past, the price of corn had been very low, but he denied that it had been lower than during a long period under protec tive laws. Until the price of corn should have been at a lower price ander free trade than under the protective system, and for a longer period, he contended there was no grounds for the proposed inquiry. But whenever it should happen that for three consecutive years the price should be lower than under protection, and the farmers showed that they bad been ruined in consequence— (Laughter)—he should be willing to grant a Committee such as that now asked for. Now, with regard to the importation ot foreign corn, he believed it would be found, that taking the ruling price of corn for the last half-century in those corn-growing countries which competed with us, it would b• impossible far the ports of the Baltic or America to compete with us lower than at 455. per quarter for wheat, and other grain in proportion. From America, in its present state, he did not think this country need fear the importation of corn at less than 455. Taking for the last twenty years the average price of wheat in New Orleans, the cheapest wheat port in America, it would be found to be not below 345. or a quarter, and it could Hot be imported to this country under 455. In times of scarcity at home, no doubt, im portations must take place from abroad; but he felt satis fied that country gentlemen would not think of weighing the injury done to the farmers with the boon con ferred on the great bulk of the population in such periods of scarcity. The only difference between the manufac turers and the agriculturists was, that the former adapted themselves more to the altered circumstances which might surround them, and employed superior skill. But whether there was protection or not, there would be complaints of agricultural distress. From 1832 to 1835 such complaints hat been rife. He denied the allegations of the Hon. Mover, that our agriculturists were competing with untaxed growers of corn; for France, from which our largest supplies came, was taxed very nearly as high as E ng l a nd. The large sup ply from that country last year might be accounted for partly on account of an abundant harvest, partly on ac count of the desire of the growers, in the present politi cal aspect of affairs, to realise capital. The real injury to the farmers was inflicted by the landlords themselves, who told them that they could not com pete with the foreigners, and were believed.---(Hear, hear.) When this idea had been forced into the minds of the farmers, it was not an easy matter to dispossess it. But believing that free-trade measures had not had the i n j ur i ous e ff ec t attributed to them, but that at the present momen t the poor were better clad and fed, and wer e more f u lly emp l o y e d than at any former period; and, moreover, that the char g es u p on land were less than they had formerly been, he regarded the present motion as uncalled for and unnecessary. Colonel SIBTHORP ridiculed the recommendation of the Hon. Gentl eman w h o h a d just sat down, that the farmers sh ou ld wa i t unt il t h e y were ruined before they preferred th e i r comp l a i n t s , and denied that free trade had produc e d th e goo d e ff ec ts claimed for it. With re gard to the p resen t pro p osa l, be thought y o u mi g h t as well attemp t t o get blood out of a mill-stone as j ustice out of a Co mm i ttee o f t h e House ot Commons as at pre sent constitut e d.—(La u ghter.) It would have been better if the Hon. Member for West Gloucestershire had recommended a dilsolution of Parliament and a ehsnge of Ministry. Who were to take the place of the present Ministry he knew not. The Government had been bad enoug h b e f ore; it was not much better now. They were, in Booth, a previous lot altogether. A dissolution would at all events preclude those who had otbrorkeefaugeth.iir(Lpolueddgleasugtohtethr.)eir constituents from again se.eking the House of Commons as an a sy lum and p lace He believed that the Noble Lord at th e h ea d of the Gover nmnet was no t in disposed to assist the agricultural interest, but that h e shrunk from periling his administration by so doing. The advice he (Colonel Sibthorp) should give to the agriculturi s t s was to ag it a te and to register, and if that insulted body adopted that advice he felt no doubt as to the result. Mr. PLUMPTRE confessed that he had failed to de rive one jot of consolation from the prophecy of the Honourable Member for Paisley (Mr. Ilastie) that corn from America could not be imported here under 455. a quarter. It was a downright delusion aLd fallacy to make such an assertion, for he (Mr. Plumptro) had heard that there were illimitable tracts of land in America which would be made to supply corn at a much cheaper rate. The Honourable Member had also recommended that the language of encouragement and not of despair should be addressed to the agricultural interest, and had supposed a similarity between toe conditions of agri culture and manufactures, when, in fact, there was dis similarity. He was sorry the Government had not held out to those who were confessedly now in g reat distress, a nd apprehending still more, any grou nd of ho p e for the future; and to tell them, although they had no prospect of encouragement, to use more energy. capital and skill, was only adding insult to injury. The maxim of the Government appeared to be, " Perish agriculture; necessary expenditure, it must not be forgotten that this part of the United Kingdom had been most liberal of its aid to tho sister country. Tl'e Bill then passed through Committee, and. was ordered to be read a third time.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 14. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time and passed:— Bolton Improvement. Manchester Rectory Division. The following Bills were considered and agreed to:— Dublin and Drogheda Railway. London (City) Improvements. Reading Cattle Market. LONDON (WATFORD) _ SPRING WATER COM ___ _ MANY BILL. On the motion that this Bill be read a second time, Mr. REPTON moved that it be read a second time that day six mouths. Mr. B. OSBORNE said he thought great public in terests were involved in the supply of water to the me tropolis, and in his opinion the House would be doing a fair thing if they sent this and all other water Bills relating to the metropolis to a Select Com mittee. He could not help expressing his astonishment that her Majesty's Ministers had not informed the House what their intentions were with respect to those water Bills for the metropolis. He must call on his Right Hon. Friend the Home Secretary to explain to the House what the intentions of the Go vernment were with regard to the supply of water to the metropolis. Sir G. GREY said that there was no foundation for the report which he had only just heard, that the treat ment which these water Bills would receive at the hands of the Government depended on the fate of the Extra mural Interment Act. The question of the supply of water to the metropolis had been referred to the consideration of the Board of Health, and he had every reason to suppose that that board had devoted its greatest consideration to that question. Previous to Easter the Board commu nicated that it had not as yet been able to make a report, and it suggested that it would be expedient for the House and, the public at large if those Bills were not al lowed to proceed until the report were published. In accordance with that communication he had moved the postponement of those Bills until after Easter. The re port of the Board was not yet published, and though he did not think it justifiable to delay the Bill for the purpose of receiving the report, still, perhaps, the House would think it desirable to postpone the Bills al together until another session. Lord ASHLEY did not think it desirable that these Bills should be proceeded with before the report of the Board of Health was published, which he intimated would be ready by Whitsuntide. After a few words from Mr. BAILLIE, The House then divided, when there appeared— For the second reading ... ... 90 Against it 196 Majority ... -106 The Bill was consequently thrown out. METROPOLITAN WATERWORKS (HENLEY ON-THAMES AND LONDON ACQUEDUCT) BILL. Sir W. MOLESWORTH proposed the second read ing of this Bill. Mr. WILLYAMS opposed the Bill, and moved that it be read a second time that day six months. Mr. ROBERT PALMER seconded the amendment. After some observations from Sir DE LACY EVANS, Lord ASHLEY said that what London wanted was not quantity of water but quality, and a proper distribu tion; and when the report of the Sanitary Commissioners was laid on the table of the House, some useful suggestions on that subject would be laid before the public. He be lieved that, instead of 2,000,0001. being required for the supply of London with water, 300,0001. would be amply sufficient. He should, therefore, support the amendment that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Mt. HUME was surprised at the opposition of the Noble Lord to the Bill. If there was anything objec tionable in the measure, let it go into Committee and be there rectified. Mr. MUNTZ could see no reason why the Bill should not go into Committee, as in that tribunal its provisions might be properly sifted, and any errors corrected. Colonel B. KNOX opposed the second reading of the Bill. Mr. MOWATT supported the second reading. All that the people of London wanted to do was to supply themselves with water out of the Thames, and they were opposed by some halt-dozen millowners. He contended that that opposition ought not to weigh one iota, forthis reason, that that mill property could be properly compensated fur by a grant of money. —(Cheers and laughter.) He had nothing whatever to do with this Bill, except as an inhabitant of London, and he thought the House was bound to receive those Bills and send them before a Committee, which was the proper tribunal for testing them.—(Divide, divide.) He wished Hon. Gentlemen could only see one of the water systems in operation in his house.—(lronical laughter.) Lord R. GROSVENOR opposed the second reading. He thought the future supply of water to the metropo lis should not be left to a trading company. Mr. B. OSBORNE said there was no subject which could be discussed in this House, in which the inhabitants could take a greater interest than in this. No less than 1,800,000 persons assembled to discuss thissubject yester day evening.—(Laughter.) He thought his Hon. Colleague (Lord Robert Grosvenor) had misrepresented the Hen ley Company in calling it a trading company. So far from that, it was vested altogether in the bands of the ratepayers.—(" No, no.") At all events the ratepayers were interested in it. Why the inhabitants of London were being daily poisoned by the most nauseous streams that could be given to any animal.—(Laughter.) He (Mr. Osborne) hal with him an account of a microsco pical examination of the water supplied by the three companies south of the Thames, with plates of the ani mals which Hon. Gentleman were in the habit of imbib ing—( A laugh)—it appeared that the nastiest animal was drunk by those who were supplied by the Lambeth Company .—(Laughter.) If Gentlemen would take the trouble to look through the book they would be per fectly astonished to see the animals they were in the habit of imbibing—at least those of them who drank water.—(Loud laughter.) Now, the question being whether the inhabitants of London should not be sup plied with is better article, at a cheaper rate, the House ought surely to send such Bills as this to a Committee to decide on them upon their merits.—(Hear, bear.) It was the best course to take, in order to secure immediate legislation .—(Hear.) Mr. WYLD represented the opinions of several thou sands on the subject, and they were decidedly opposed to any Government interference in the supply of water. The principle of centralization had been pushed far enough they thought, and they considered themselves quite able to manage their own affairs. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the second. reading ... 116 Against it ... ... 226 Majority _llO The Bill was consequently thrown out. MARTIAL LAW IN CEPHALONIA. Mr. HUME postponed his motion for a Commission to inquire into the causes of the late riots and procla mation of martial law in Cephalonia, and proceeding: thereupon; and into the grievances of the inhabitants of the lonian Islands. until the 4 h of June. MILITARY KNIGHTS OF WINDSOR. Colonel SALW EY postponed his motion for a Select Committee to inquire into the case and claims of the Military Kriglrs of Windsor until the 4th of June. GROWTH OF COTTON IN INDIA. Mr. BRIGHT' postponed until the 4th of June his motion to the effect that an humble address should be presented to her Majesty, praying her Majesty to ap point a Commission to proceed to India to inquire into the obstacles which prevented an increased growth of cotton in that country, and to report upon any cir cumstances which might injuriously affect the eco nomical and industrial condition of the native population, being cultivators of the soil within the presidencies of Bombay and Madras. IRISH POOR-LAW. Mr. F. FRENCH gave notice that on an early day after Whitsuntide ho should call the attention of the House to the working of the Irish Poor-law. AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. Mr. NE WDEGATE presented a petition from a place in Warwickshire complaining of agricultural dis tress, and praying for a return to protection. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL it was agreed that the House at its rising should adjourn until Thursday next. should a 3 possible, it th twelve have w e e la: o'clock MORNING SITTINGS. opportunity llo N n ir. FRENVEN thought it was only just that those Members who had notice of motion for tomorrow and he should therefore move that the House onT o h f ur b s r d in ay g . ing them on as early meet Sir GEORGE GREY said th e or d ers w hich stood for morrow had already be en postponed for days subse qaent t o Th ursday, and, gained by th e i r having a therefore, nothing would be After a fe w wor d s fr morning sittin g on t h a t day. Mr. FITZ ROY asked Mr. HUMS , Go givin g Th ursdays to Government to ext en d th e reso lutionhad motions t o su b mit t o independent M em b ers who suntide. the Hou se b eyond Whit- Lord J. RUSSELL could not d sent of the whol e H ouse . o so with out the con- The motion was then withdrawn.PROTECTION TO AGRICULTURE After the presentation o f a large numb. all praying for protection to agriculture,er of petiti ons, Mr. 0. BERKELEY, on rising to move that House should resolve itself into Committ ee t o take into the c onsideration the Acts relating to the import a ti on of fo reign corn, said that he felt it necessary to cast him se lf on the kind indulgence of the House. 119 was fully awa re of the difficult position which he occupied, an d h e believed that the country needed more information than it already had with regard to the intentions of her Ma jesty's Government towards the country, suffering as it was under the present extreme agricultural distress. He would endeavour to show the agricultural interest, and the tenwet-firmers of this country, the real position in which they were placed, and what they had to expect from the great parties of the StaL•; anal in doing so, he would beg to allude to the answers given to the addresses lately presented to the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, and also to another N oble Lord holding co ntrary opinions , to the sh o rt and somewhat bitter refusal given by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, and to the different amount of attention paid, and the di g nified mode in which Lord Stanley received the deputation that waited 0 1300 hi m . / J . " n reply to the address presented to Lord John Russell Lordship said, " You also say her . on Saturday, his Lordship i e, that the only hope replacing the agricul tural of and other nati • ve anct colonial interests in a gate of WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 15, 1850. flourish Manchester!" An immense mass of the rural population were suffering acutely; and, thertfare, he was not surprised that they sometimes gave vent to strong laugua4e. These people were not naturally disloyal or impa ient of control; but they could not understand, in the midst of their anxiety and inability to obtain employment, why the foreigner should be fa voured whilst the loyal and industrious labourer was neglected at home. These very natural feelings of the rural population ought nut to be overlooked by her Majesty's Ministers; and he c ml,l state, as a practical Lamer, that the continuance of the free-trade system must prove most injurious, if not ruinous, to the agri cultural interests of the country. Mr. SLANEY held views rather differing from those entertained by gentlemen on both sides of the House. He thought it would have been better if a moderate fixed duty on corn had been maintained, as an equivalent for the undue burdens of local and general taxation borne by agriculture. That would also have been a convenient mode of raising a part of the revenue. But after the long struggle and the ultimate settlement of the corn-law that had taken place, he held that the present experi ment ought to be tried for some time longer. He attri buted the present depression of agriculture to extraordi nary and transitory causes, such as a season of unpa ralleled productiveness throughout all the corn-growing countries of Europe, which was not likely soon to occur again. He was not over sanguine in his anticipa tions; he believed there would yet be very great distress throughout the country, and whether or not the energies of the British people would carry them over their difficulties without a return t•) a protective policy, he was not able to predict. Yet he advised the agricultural interest to lay aside their agitation for protection, and endeavour to remove the shackles and impediments to the success of their industry and enterprise arising from the complexity of title and the costliness of conveyance; and he was sure if they looked to the amelioration of the social condition of the mass of the people, they would find that if the great cities of the country prospered, it was impossible for the landed interest not to flourish also. He admitted the prevalence of distress in some of the rural districts, but thought very little of it extended to the peasantry. —(Hear, hear.) Certainly, in some of the southern counties where abuses of the poor-law used to obtain, the distress had reached the labouring classes; but in the northern counties wages had not been reduced in proportion to the reduction in the price of the necessaries of life, and he understood the peasantry were as well, it not better off now than they used to be.—(Divide.) For the reasons he had stated. in all sincerity, be did not bp lieve the present causes of agricultural distress were of a permanent character; but if that distress continued un abated until the next session, he for one should be pre pared to reconsider the present system of commt•rcial policy, with the view to establishing a fixed duty on corn as an equivalent, but no more than an equivalent, for what might be found, on inquiry, to be the peculiar burdens on land. The Marquis of GRANBY said he was not surprised at the present motion, because there was a reaction of feeling against free trade amongst persons of all classes and professions in the country.—(Hear, hear.) The tenantry of the country, one and all, declared that it was impossible to cultivate the land under the present prices for agricultural produce. But if the case of the farmers of England was bad that of the same class in the sister island was still worse—(Hear, hear)—and it would have been much better if the Noble Lord at the head of the Government. instead of lowering the franchise to the level of the distressed condition of the people, had endeavoured to raise the people to the level of the franchise.—(Hear, hear.) But the evil was not confined to the tenant-farmers. The agricultural labourers came in for their share. It was no wonder, then, that I the labouring classes were beginning to feel the effect of their free-trade measures, and to perceive that cheap ness did not always mean plenty, and that competition did not mean prosperity.—(Hear.) He believed that the labourers in the manufacturing districts were coming round to the same opinion. The Hon. Gentleman who last addressed the House said that the prosperity of the landed interest depended on the prosperity of manufac tures. He (the Marquis of Granby) admitted that, but he maintained that the converse of that proposition was equally true, that the prosperity of manufactures depended on the prosperity of agriculture. The manufacturers were beginning to find that the . home market was not only the largest, but the most important and secure. It was said that the price of corn was rising, and that a better state of things might be expected. Why, it was only in the Times of that day he read that the average price of wheat for the week ending May the 4th was only 365. 6d. throughout the country.—(Hear.) Under such a state of things, of what advantage was it to the farmers of the country that the price rose sixpence one week, and a shilling another?—(Hear.) But was it not the object of free trade to make provisions as cheap as possible?—(Heat) The Noble Lord admitted the fact of distress, but he led them to hope that at some distant and imaginary period prices would rise; so that the defence of free trade now set up by the Government was that at some future day it would be inoperative.—(Hear, heat.) His Hon. Friend had been taunted for not bring ing forward this question himself; but from the present spirit of the House of Commons, and from the tone and temper of the Government since the commencement of the session, when the first insult had been offered to the agricultural interest to the moment when the Noble Lord gave his answer to the deputation which recently waited upon him, his Hon. Friend had no right to suppose that !.hat House would sanction any alteration of the present system, more especially when it was remembered how the moderate proposition of his Hon. Friend for charg ing the consolidated fund with a portion of the poor rate, and that of the Hon. Member for Ox'ordshire (Mr. Henley) had been received.—(Hear, hear.) He rested his reliance for the reversal of their present policy not on the decision of that House, but on the force of public opinion out of doors.—(Hear.) Sir B. HALL said, if it were Possible to suppose that a person, not a Member of that House, could come there that evening and ask what the subject under diecussion was, and be told it was the great and important question of the corn-laws, about which so much had been heard and said outside that House, he (Sir B. Hall) thought that individual would be very much astonished at the little interest manifested within these walls on the subject; and probably if that same stranger—whom it was impos sible to suppose present—should be asked on which side the Protecttonist Members sat, he might, drawing his own conclusions, reply that they sat on the right of the chair and not on the left.—(Laughter.) The majority in the House that evening sat on the right of the chair; and therefore it might be supposed that those who took an interest in the matter had come down in large numbers to support the agricultural in terest, then more or less involved in the motion before them, and which emanated from that side of the House also.—(Hear, hear.) But let them go further. He (Sir B. Hall) had sat there during the whole of the debate, and observed that during the addresses of the three last speakers—particularly that of the Noble Marquis who represented to a great extent the agricultural interest in the midland counties—the largest number at the oppo sition side of the House amounted to 27, and fluctuated between that and 17.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore was it not a perfect farce for these Hon. Gentlemen during the recess to go amongst their constituents, stimulating them to opposition, end styling themselves "the farmers' friends," yet, when the question came to be decided within the walls of Parliament, out of a body of be tween 200 and 300 Protectionist Members re ho affected to advocate the interests of their deluded followers—(Hear, hear)—not more than from 17 to 27 Hon. Gentlemen were found in their places.—(Hear, hear.) If the Members of the Manchester school had adopted that course out of the House, and had not the moral courage to bring forward their propositions and take the sense of Parliament on t h em; they (the Pro tectionist Members) would have lavished their censure on them, and demanded of them why they went abroad stimulating the minds of the public, making them dis satisfied, and yet, though affecting to be the friends of the people, fearing to bring the question at issue before the sense of Parliament.—(Hear.) The Noble Marquis who bad just addressed the House expressed his gratifi cation at the fact that the first political wave broke from the Ministerial side of the House. Well, the farmers out of doors had long been looking for the bursting of a wave from the opposite side, but could never succeed in seeing even a ripple, so that they should hold themselves indebted to an Hon. Member on the Ministerial side for affording an opportunity to bring forward the question.—(Hear, hear.) What he (Sir B. Hall) then said he spoke not alone for the House, but also for those outside its walls; because he considered it a farce and a mummery for Hon. Gentlemen to go amongst their constituents and get up a clamour, and then allow three years of a Parliament to pass over !about ever endeavouring to bring forward the ques tion:—(Hear, hear.) He thought a man making an as sertion outside that House should at least have the moral conrage to fulfil his word.—(Hear, hear) Now, let them look at the position of the metropolitan Mem bers, who, being anxious to repeal the window-tax, con sequently brought forward a motion to that effect every session. —(Hear.) The Protectionist Members, on the contrary, went amon gs t th e i r f r i en d s an d su pp oi tors as suring them they would advocate the renewal of the corn laws. Yet session after session went over, and the ques tion was never brought forward. The case of the Hon. Gentleman was somewhat similar to that of the re peelers of the legislative union, in fact, part passe. The repeaters of the legislative union professed that repeal was everythint with them; but yet, strange to say. they never brought it forward.—(flear, hear.) In 1833 it certainly had been brought forward; but, between that period and 1848, there was a single Conciliation Hall Member found to bring it forward?—(Hear, hear.) In 1848 the question of repeal was brought on by a gen tleman representing are English borough, and who was at perfect variance with the repeaters. The case of the Protectionist gentleman was precisely similar.—(" No, no," from the Oppo s iti on b en ches.) Well, wnat had they done? Would they rouse the people without an object, a definite object?—(Hear, hear.) What was that object but to amend the laws?—(Hear, hear.) Where could they be amended unless on the floor of that House by argument and plain speaking; and if they intended to amend them otherwise why not say so? That House was the proper place for discussion; and the question was then brought on for discussion, not by the consent of lion. Gentlemen opposite, hut because it was forced upon them from the Ministerial side of the House.-- (Hear, hear, and No, no.) Now they could not deny this fact, that when the question was brought for ward that evening they could not muster more than twenty-seven Members; and if Hon. Members on his (Sir B. Hall's) side of the House chose to walk out, Hon. Members opposite would have the House counted, so that they should be thankful to gentlemen sitting on the Ministerial benches for keepit , i , g a House for them.— (Laughter, and " Hear, hear.) He would not then enter into the question beyond saying that they would have an opportunity of testing the votes of Hon. Gentle men opposite; and he hoped when these gentlemen would tell their constituents in future that they were prepared to bring forward this great and important question they would do so in reality, and not leave to an Hon. Member on the Ministerial bemires the perform ance of so important a duty.-(Hear, la as.) . Mr. MILES said the lion. Baronet who herr just sat down assumed much to himself, and pleased to thaw a comparison between lion. Members who advocated pro tection and those who supported a repeal of the legisla tive union. Now, he wished to know why the Hoe. Ba ronet had never attacked the repeal question until after the originator of that question had been removed fvom the House of Commons?-(" Hear, hear," frcm the Os , position benches.) No, the lion. Baronet preferred wait ing until the originator of that question had succumbed to disease and ceased to be a elember of that House; and then it was that he stepped in and derided lion. Members for Ireland for not having brought forward the question.-(Hear, hear.) The question of the corn-laws was argued in 1846, since when a new Par liament had been returned in favour, he would admit, of free-trade principles.-(" Hear, hear," from the Mi nisterial benches.) There was no doubt that the decision of the country was in favour of free trade (Hear, hear)- but they should wait for a re-action, and it was quickly coming.-(Oh oh, and Hear, hear.) The llon. Baronet had taunted the opposite side of the House because no proposition had emulated from it for a restoration of protection to agriculture; but he could tell him that whenever a motion should emanate from that side of the louse it would include a recurrence to the full and entire system of protective duties, which he and Hon. Gentlemen on his side believed to be not alone advantageous, but absolutely necessary to the wel fare of the British people.-(Hear, hear.) The time was not distant when the watchword would be, " Bide your time, and trust in us"-(Laughter)-and he doubted not that in the next Parliament they would come forward with an amended constituency as well its a large majority in that House to re-adjust the dis organised and disrupted interests of the country. Mr. MITCHELL said the best proof that could be given of the well working of the corn-law repeal was the benefit that the operative classes experienced by the change.-(Hear, hear.) The consumption of bread stuffs had increased one third; and if wages fell in pro portion to the price of food, who consumed the increase? By the repeal of the corn laws they had enabled the working people to consume one third more bread than heretofore, and so far the working classes were per manently benefited.-(Hear, hear.) Now he thought that was the very highest tribute that could be paid t free trade; and he believed it was one of the cau-es that kept England tranquil during the late continental out breaks.-(Hear, hear.) In the corn trade he had heard of attempts made to induce the farmers to sacrifice their property: and in several cases they had subteitted to low prices, for which they might thank the laneu employed by their organ (the A:ark-lane Express) and the harangues and incentives of the leaders of their party.-(Hear, hear.) He was cert tin that these gentlemen had induced the farmers to part with their grain some 3s. or 4s. a quarter less than it would bring within the last fortnight, in which time he had observed an increase of some ss. per quarter had taken place. His own impression was, that instead of a re-action taking place, the prices, as the weather improved, would ad vance to 455. a quarter for wheat, which was an excel lent price for farmers to sell at.-(Hear, hear, arid No, no.) Indeed, he had no doubt that 455. per quarter were equal to 60s. per quarter in former days, considering the altered prices in other ar ides of con sumption-meat; sugar, and so forth.-(Hear, hear.) He we's glad to see the lion. Member for Wakefield in his place, as he wished to allude to a matter that had reference to him. He understood that Hon. Gentleman had purchased 1,000 quarters of wheat, which he said was Stettin, at a certain price which appeared to be ex ceedingly low for such an article. Now he (Mr. Mitchell) understood that it was not Stettin wheat but Pomeranian or Sicilian, which accounted for the low cost of the arti cle, including shipment to this country.-(Laughter.) Mr. G. SANDARS, who rose amid renewed laughter, said the Hon. Gentleman opposite had charged him with having by his statements caused an undue depreciation in the prices of corn in the agricultural districts of the country. He said then as he said tormerly, that his only object was to give information to that House, and to lay a true statement of the facts before the House and the country. The Hon. Gentleman had referred to a pur chase of Stettin wheat, and alluded to it at though it were a single and solitary transaction. But if he looked to the correspondence in the various newspapers of the period he would find not only was it not a solitary trate section, but that several merchants of Mark-lane bought at the same and even at lower prices than he did.- (lcer, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had also referred to the grain as being of inferior quality. He believed the Hon. Gentleman did not deal extensively in corn, or that he could tell the difference between Silesian and Pomeranian wheat if placed before him.- (Laughter, and Oh, oh.) The order which he (Mr. Sanders) sent out, was for the best Stettin wheat, of 61 to 621bs. to the bushel, and he,would leave it to Honourable Gentlemen to say if that description should not be regarded as the very best. The order was ex ecuted with great satisfaction, and the prices at Wake field marker, about the period of the arrival of that corn, were from 375. to 38s. But the Hon. Gentleman had said that in consequence of the policy of free trade being carried out consumption had increased by one-third. Never was there a more preposterous statement made. He should like to ask the Hon. Gentleman from whence this extra one-third had come? It was tree that in 1849 we imported largely-we imported 5,600,000 quar ters of wheat; but the Hon. Gentleman forgot that the harvest of 1848 was unusually defective, and it would require two or three millions of quarters at least to make up the deficiency; and if they took into conside ration the large quantity exported to Ireland that year, instead of our importing from that country as usual, another million of quarters might be accounted for; and to this the wheat brought into consumption in conse quence of the failure of the potato crop, and the whole five or six millions was made up.- (Cheers from the Free-trade party.) We imported this large amount of wheat not to supply extra consumption, but to make up the deficiency whica had arisen from these causes.---(" Hear, hear," from the same party.) The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to quote returns of the price of wheat at the various European and Ameri can corn exporting ports, to show that the average price at which corn could be shipped abroad was much lower than had been stated by the previous speaker (Mr. Mit chell). An authority which was regarded as a text book by the Free-traders, had stated that 525. 2d. was the just average price of wheat, and what the farmer got more than that was so much gain to him, and what he got less so much loss.-(He Lt., hear.) The Hon. Gentleman to whom he alluded (Mr. Wilson) also said that it was quite erroneous to suppose that free trade would reduce the price of food, but, on the contrary. would tend rather to increase it by raising the prosperity of the country and increasing the demand; but there was no symptom of that prediction being verified. With re spect to the motion before the Reuse., be was in some difficulty what course to take. He could not agree that it was wise to bring on the question at this time for die cussion.-(Hear.) He understood the Hon. Mover (Mr. G. Berkeley) to say that free trade had now been tried three years, and that that was sufficient to test its suc cess or failure. Tho Hon. Gentleman mast, however, remember that although the Act passed in 1846 it did not come into operation until 1849.-(Hear.) Up to that time the law WAS a sliding scale, ranging ferns 10s. downwards; so that instead of three years, the present law had only been in operation titteere months. He ad mitted that he had promised at the hustings to give free trade a fair trial, and as he could not consider that such fair trial had yet been allowed, he did not see how he could vote for this motion. Much had been said in the course of the debate of the low prices of 1835; but there was this great and wide difference between that year and the present-it was true the price of wheat did not vary much in the two years, but in all other agri cultural produce there was a wide difference in favour of the }ear 1 35. The average price .:f wheat in 1835 was 395. 4d. The present average-that was the average of the last six weeks-was 375. Bd.; but of barley the aver age in 1835 was 295. l ld. against 225. od. now.-(" Hear" from the agriculturists.) The price of oats in 1835 was 225. Id.; it was now 15s. In rye, peas, beans, and other produce, there was a similar falling off in the present prices as compared with those of 1835.• Again, it must he recollected that the year preceding 1835 had been one of general abundance, and the low prices were conse quent on that abundance-but now we had low prices following deficient harvests. With regard to the price of Stettin wheat, he could tell the lion. Member for Brid port that purchases had been made at a lower rate than that which had been quoted. The Hon. Gentleman then quoted a letter from a Free-trader, stating that a ss. fixed duty would be fair to the farmer, and would not press more heavily on the consumer than the present nominal duty of ls. He was anxious the House should consider what might he the result of free trade with a deficient harvest, when we might have to look to foreign countries for, perhaps, one-third of our whole supplies. Four-fifths of all our imports last year came from Euro pean ports, and let it once be known that we were wholly dependent upon them for so large a proportion of the food of our people, and they would take care that we paid high enough for it.-(Hear, hear.) He would sug gest that some alteration should be made in the mude of taking the averages. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by quoting a return, showing that under the sth and 6th of Victoria, we imported in two years 400,000 qeaeters of wheat wh ch paid 20s. duty. anti that the average price must then have been about 50s. per quarter. Mr. WILSON remarked that the Heti. Gentleman who had just sat down had done him the honour to refer to the opinion he had express , d in 1840 with respect to a 525. average as the average price for seven years pre ceding. Now, it would net have been fair in 1835 to have quoted the price of that year as an average. Lt the year 1835, the price of wheat wa s un d er 40e.. for 36 weeks, and the average price of wheat under 40s ire 1849, was but for 16 weeks. The present dine must, however, be considered an exceptional period, and the price of corn for the last few months could not be, there fore, taken as the probable average price for any length ened space. The Hon. Gentleman had quoted from several letters to prove that the price of corn ranged lower now than at any period pro ceding; hut he (Mr. Wilson) had also letters in hie possession which show. d that in every great market on the continent of Europe the price of wheat had risen within the lest tertnight from ls. to 2s. 6d. It was, however, a remarkeble cireum stance that the Honourable Gentlemen had quoted prin cipally f. om letters dated the 9th of April-trom none later than the 15 , .h. Then, with respect to home prices, the authorities and quotations of the lien. Gentleman were at least three weeks old. lie (Mr. Wilson) held in his hand a return received that day from some of the largest markets in the kingdom for the last four weeks, and tiey showed a different result. At Canterbury, for instance, four wi eke since wheat ivies 38e. 7d.: last week, heweter, it was 40s the quarter. At Lincoln, four weeks ago, it was 375., while last week it was 39a. Bd.; and he had in his possession a letter from a large grower in Berkshire, in which it was siat al that a fortnight previously the writer could get no more than, 400. for his best wheat, whereas last week he easily oh- tained 443. The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the mode of taking the averages.' It was, however, more !lupe tent to eori.idr , r the great question under discussio.o its a it l s ae g t e i n n er ; al Lear ings than to consider it in its sa l arid therefore he should confine himself t ° th,,t form of discussing it. He was ready to edro . it with the lion. Gentleman opposite that there svas not in the el , • antry at this moment that universal prosperitY which every Hon. Member on either side of the House r ould wish ; but then thi re was this vvonderfu andl dis tineti,,n between the suffering undergone now tbat e u n derwent in former times—that whereas formerly th fo the cuff ring was all confined to the working Portf° n population, the poor, at present it was felt solely by the higher and middle classes.—(Loud cries ef "N° , no," and "Hear, hear.") An Hon. Gentleman after the other side of the H said that the q uestion , af ter all, would have to be ouse settled on the ground of the inte rests of the working classes ; on that ground he ( 31 b r ' Wilson) was willing to meet it, and to OOP': test of the condition of that class to its settlemeet. January last, long before the Hon. Member for Bert' shire had made his motion on tbe subject, the Govera inept had laid upon the table of the House certain returnF! showing the state of pauperism in the whole country !of the first week of the present year, in cemparison wita the similar period in the three preceding wever, tha t Noble Lord in the other House • suspecting, how eve the tbese re' ,erne were of a naaire too favourable t Government, moved for returns for the middle of the n umber °._ past quarter. These returns showed the paupers receiving out-door relief and in-door relief England and Wales in the middle of February, anclhiehig was the result. In the corresponding week 0f t—se Y years there %sere:— Tota l ' Oat-door Paupers. In-door Paupers. 08,00 0 1847 a . 729,000 ~. 179,000 a• . 9 93, 000 1848 ... 824,000 ... 169,000 ..• 0 ' 43, 000 1849 ... 784,000 159,000 ..• e ",, , 000 1850 ... 748,000 ... 142,000 ••• y e " wag So that in the vaunted year of 1848, when w" e b et er of 100 s. per quarter, there were a far greater num_ ss i o u paupers than in the present year of alleged de e r b a d be e and distress, and the total pauperism of the eo untrY could been reduced from 993,000 to 890,000. No (sue,. ib is deny, therefore, that whoever were suffering al . t he moment from the change that had taken Pl aee e r e sses commercial policy of this country, the poorer , an were not those persons, They had been told by HoutiuraWe Member (Mr. G. Berkeley) that the ° di e ted wee: di-appointed of that immediate prosperitY P re re ale by the Free-traders.—(Hear.) Could Ile h e e ,? e h at Members overlook one of the great causes w` e, the this moment affected the middle classes? Could they the discover one °lcoac great cause in the years 1845-6 f . e existing mischief. He had been told that in sett le co uld ties, anti among the r es t Li nco l ns hi re , that you not name a person who had not suffered from r ", onlr speculations.—(Oh, oh; no, no.) Mind he did nn' te a jo charge the agricultural classes with having sPec ula , er , in railways ; he was aware that Liverpool, Manchestb, or short all the great towns in the north were as rauu than more, engaged in the same kind of speculatioonbitubis were teo , e in agricultural counties ; but though the the might be so, it was impossible to blind themselves hffer, f ict that this was one of the great causes of that 914 00 ing which had been wholly charged to free trade. pc. had been furnished by th e S ecre t ar y o f the St° °k we re change with this statement :—ln 1848 there „ er e 147,000 men employed on ra il roa d s . At presen t - s e as were only 45,000 men—so they had 100,00 0 Ine h an ee employed now than before, owing to the discontinnwer, of the construction of railway o s. In 1846 t here , ett , nine main lines, whi c h had expended 51,000,0; s e which had an in c o me o f 2,700,0001. In 18 50 the we! lines had expended 102,000,000/., and their incon 3 e °r ay . 2,200,0001, b 'ing 500 0001. less than when they h t ! e d that ,xpended 51,000,0001. Th ere f ore it m i g ht be sa l "j o ed 51.000,0001. had been recently expended which retn'eota absolutely unproductive. Thi s a l one ou ght to he s ot cliaive reason for a great portion of that suffering ° j os. which the country was now labouring. T he d ito" Gentleman (Mr. Sander s ) a ll u d e d t o th e diminishe ear• portation of ,rain in this compared with 104 Iwo Nothing could more strikin g ly s h ow th e benefits 000 trade. The Hon. Member told the House th e b Ae harvest was defective in 1838, and in consequencegige had an importation of 5,500.000 quarters of fs )r t hsa corn. Why, what other o bj ec t h a d f r ee trade j u st this ? Then the Hon. Gentleman said the harve 3t . year had been larger, and the importations had t r a do quently fallen off. This was the very object fre i fire e sought to accomplish—to equalise the seasons. ,; e iv. trade did that it attained the object it had in `" of They had been asked what evidence existed ors increased consumption d ur i ng th e l as t three l e a, , al tHe found during the l as t s i x mon th s that o 1,000,000 more quart e r s h a d b een imports 611111-d n'tity in the corresponding p e riod l as t y e ar, the bad of home-grown wheat taken into consumption., that increased. The calculations in his posamion shove" bad during the last six months 1,269,000 quarters ma le or been taken into consumption th an during the oor a . ponding six months of the previous year. r etr bers and other parties, from their own personal 0 10 %61 tams, and from inquiries of bakers, have asc ertel ' i thiS that a larger consumption of bread had taken Pla se ce n tlee year compared with former times. The Hon. ta, e- o at man (Mr. Berkeley) had stated that the English in . would be undermined by the United States. He ue- h at his hand au account of the sale of four cargoes of w. heat sac tlo sts from America. The accounts were genuine tran not hypothetical calculations. The cargoes were 4 'oo bushels each ; the loss on the voyage was 357 bushel o s *. O. • cost of bringing the wheat here and thelossadded ib' t her per quarter to the selling price. The result of the is cargoes was nearly the same. Now, by the last ac c ecl• •trom the United States, the price at New York was 4 ' 4 , 9 0 a go o d white wheat. So, adding the cost of carriage sn loss, it could noz be sold at a profit here for less toed 565. per quarter. Th e c i rcumstances h e had s",„aeet would account f o r th e f ac t t h a t a t t h e prese nt ra°Tht fl ur was no leis than 3s. per barrel dearer is Ne w .„d leans than at Liverpo o l. Th e f our cargoes a ll susta l vr " e e I. se. One cirgo the cost was 9351; the produce lo t 714 d ; so the loss was 2211. Th e secon d cargo ; 0 , 4551.; the third 2371. ; and th e f our th 2881. And Il e l j e altenbers must further beat in mind in mind that tier wheat was bought in A mer i ca w h en pr i ces were I° o l than now, and sold here at a tim e w h en the price it 4s. higher. It' then, the present prices did not alt er Ati was his belief that we would see a considerable titts°.; of ' of wheat shipped from E ng la n d f or th e consaraP e ta,) the petiole of the United Stat e s. —(R oars o f laughay, Hon. Members laughed ; but we h a d d one so tair e : ft he though Hon. Members did not seem t o b e aware tea tact. The Hon. Member (H r . S aun d ers ) h a d obj ec g o, to taking the averages o f th e l as t t en or t we lve Y e a s t, He could not understand why this objection should el tbe and why the lion. Member should wish to go back 0 00 year 1825. The Hon. Member was, perhaps, not ° be d that the condition arid character of the continent Pr of s very much changed of late years. In the Rhenis h , r e vinces, for instance, which once produced a surfuea- ' care, there was now no surplus, owing to increaseugos pulation and increased manufactures. The lion. ""ro• tleman said, under free trade we should stimulate 1001 duction, arid so we should hav e i ncrease d supplies from abroad. If they gave higher p r i ces th e y woula atereased foreign cultivati o n ; but thi s wou ld not WI o f if higher prices were not gi v en. If so , th en the wil e/u m the data on which he had based his calculations f or u last ten or twelve years were c or rec t ; an d th e refore , 0% , less you increased your prices, you had no right te tt pees increased importations. All h e wou ld say vvi/9 e 'to was a most unfair, a most unwise thing f o r the fin ss i r ee attempt to say that the experience we had had of , 00 , trade presented a satisfactory solutio n o f the eine e sU t ee He denied this was so. He was not con t en t to tax° o f years 1848-49 as a fair criterio n o f th e average Priceere wheat in future, when they saw , w h atever parties — n o' in distress, that the workin g c l asses were now better " 0 , that they were a few ye a r s ago .—(N o. ) If Hon- °f r bers did not pay regard to returns, he knew of 0 0 ° l ib. criterion by which the question could be tested. , bs returns from the poor-law unions, which were out o `, t at control or influence of Governm en t, an d f r om la i r - If thorities, were the authorities on which he relied' to any better could be produced, he would be haPP4 se adopt them; but till th a t was d one he must rely 0 11 "fee' we had. Whatev e r m i g ht b e the d efects of f ree trail .. , e 0 whatever the con s equen ces w hi c h h a d fl owe d from I,°",be prices—still he maintained th e wor ki ng peo ple ot 101 kingdom were better off in every respect now than were in former times. Mr. HERMES said that the debate h a d been so Pio': tile in admissions, he hoped they would come to O be r common agreement on the subject. The Hon. Men' Haetie) said that if the present state Of t ' te . 0- continued for three years he would become a P r °; - 0 14 tiouist, while another Hon. Member (Mr. SlaneY) o - r tie he would have objected to the repeal of the %id laws, on the ground that a protective duty was recl - , - ial for the agricultural interest, by reason of the sei se burdens ter which it was subjected. Why, that pa s a ll very essence cif protection.—(Cheers.) That w'"„ e iel they claimed, n ame ly a n i n d emn ifi cat i on o f their sP - re tl burdens. The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last o ° eh into a very elaborate statement to s h ow that, I ' l l%loo the times were now depr e ss e d, th e y wo uld mee /I - e re better, by which he meant b e tter prices. We s :eject ever such inconsistency, seeing that the avoweu leaf of those who advocated a free trade in corn 'Ot a ni prices and abundance of toed. That the Gove r taion should withhold their consent t o th e proP - o or before the limier., he confessed he vrto me' prised, recollecting as he did that on a former bo a morable occasion the Noble Lord at the The of the Government proposed a fixed duty of 8 s; the anewer given upon the subject by the Noble Lord ; . ( mr. delegtees who recently waited on him was, in his e,ord tierriee'sopinion, wholly inconclusive. The Noble sti r said teat) ithout going into other consideratio ns id ea` posing the price of cern to to 585., a law that vin, ll re ao, duce the average to 50e. would be well taken; vv , u s e aseal if the price were 425., the law which would raise it tha t t ho 425. to 50e. would be ill taken. But he remernbe i r° t , ad' the Nenle Lord at the time he proposed an Bs. " Il e ' r , re' mitted his opinion to be that 565. was only a fa mune rating price for coin. The agriculturists n°7 e tion demanded 50s. Why then should there be an oni e ree .to to relieve the agricultural interest to that wis h- the raise the price of corn to 505., being 6s. below We - p ee: Noble Lord adrnittea was a fair price. As for th e :en teo sea law thing only an experiment, he totally chi ° , the from tare proposition. Almost from the ron ale e lj ee atn e Amt came iuoe force its deplorable effects "„„trY , visible upon the a gr i cu lt ura l i n t eres t s o f the c ° `" t bein All that was now dour was to i n vite eces s; to confide i n th e prop h ec i es o f f u ture s u o be" but he, .or one , was certa i n l y i n di spose d to d° s o ;bee° cause the v e st p ro ph ec i es o f t h e same par ty had ri- disar fulfilled. He believed there were none mo re e the pointed with the result s o f fr ee trad e in corn tu ri , advocates f th e rea asures themselves.—(tl esr 'ot °` believed all r that the: e was not a person in or t bse office who, if he could have foreseen the effec ts v f : o uedi measure, would have had the courage, or th e ~.r i od no,s, to have supported it. Within the short e ce ban its ,operation the prices of agricultural prQu'4,oooll fallen 20, 25, aye, 30 per cent. Sex° WO Pr°r