The Sun. — London, England, 1850-05-25 00:00:00

remained to England was France. If those questions were brought forward, and they ought to be brought forward, and if every one of those complaints was well f o unded, he was not wrong in statin g that the p olic y of the Noble Lord had revolutionised Italy. It seemed that the only thing which the Noble Lord could say was, that all Europe had been revolutionised, and that Eng land bad remained free. If we were in that posi tion, was it noble, generous, or just, to send agents into other countries to disseminate revolutionary principles? All he (kr. B. Cochrane) could say was, that the Governments of Italy, and of every other coun try, said that they attributed their calamities to the in. tervention of Lord Palmerston.—(Hear, bear.) Lord PALMERSTON said he could only say that the speech which he had just heard led him to alter an opinion which he had formed, namely, that it was desirable that an English gentleman should travel abroad in order to understand foreign affairs.— (Cheers and laughter.) It certainly appeared to him that the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. B. Cochrane) was quite as good a judge of foreign affairs before he went abroad. —(Renewed laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman could scarcely have read the dispatches of Lord Minto. Mr. B. COCHRANE—I have read every one of them. Lord PALMERSTON said, then he was sorry to bear that the Hoe. Gentleman's time had been mis spent, for the perusal had left but little impression on his mind.—(Laughter.) The mission of Lord )Mato was never intended to effect a revolution in Italy, nor was it attended with that effect. Lord Minto had had a totally different object in view, and that was to save those states from revolution. (Cheers.) He (Lord Palmerston) must say, his opinion undoubt edly was that if the advice which Lord Minto was instructed to give when asked, but not till asked, had been more generally followed, many disastrous consequences which they now deplored • would not have taken place.—(Hear, hear.) The country which first asked Lord Minto's advice was the kingdom of Sardinia, and it was a proof of the soundness • of the advice of his Noble Friend (Lord Minto), that Sardinia , was almost the only one of those states which • enjoyed tranquillity, order, and constitutional govern s meat.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches, and a de risive laugh from the Opposition.) Lord CLAUD HAMILTON said that the Noble Lord had certainly shown a very singular proof of the good effect of Lord Minto's advice. He hoped that it was , not in consequence of that ad . vice that Sardinia had • committed those hostile aggressions which, but for .the extraordinary forbear ance of the attacked power, would have led to an hos tile occupation of her own territory. . ' Lord PALMERSTON Said that so far from this ag gression of Sardinia upon the Lombard territories having been the result of any advice of Lord Minto, the papers on the subject would prove that this Government had -made repeated remonstrances on this proceeding. The House then went into Committee of Supply, Mr. BERNAL in the chair. On the motion that a vote of 33,1601. be granted to - her Majesty for the expenses of the Royal palaces and public buildings, Colonel SAL WEY moved that the sum of 5931., for the maintenance and repairs of the Military Knights' houses in Windsor Castle, be disallowed. He con sidered that it was a public robbery that the Dean and Chapter of Windsor should continue to draw a revenue originally 600/., and now swelled up to 22,0001. per annum, which had been granted to them on the condition that they maintained these poor Knights of Windsor, and that they, the Poor Knights, should only continue to rec,ive a common thy-labourer's wages, and in addition that the public should be taxed to re pair their houses. Sir G. GREY said that the house in which the military knights lived was a part of Windsor Castle, and it was on that account that it appeared in the votes. As to the right of the Poor Knights to share in the in crease(' revenues of the Dean and Chapter of Windsor, that was a legal question, and their remedy was open to them in another place. The question had been submitted to his predecessor, the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon, and the opinion of two of the law officers of the Crown, the present Chief Baron and the late Sir W. Follett, had been taken upon it, not certainly to the advantage of the Knights. After some observations from Colonel SALWEY, Colonel TIIO MPSON trusted his Gallant Friead would divide on this sat feet. Lord SEYMOL it said that the only effect of dividing in the question would be to leave the Poor Knights of Windsor without a home. Sir DE LACY EV ANS thought the object of the motion was laudable, but, after the observations of the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and Forests, he thought it would be better to withdraw the present motion and bring forward a more comprehensive one on another opportunity. The gallery was cleared fur a division, but none took place, the amendment having been withdrawn. Mr. COBDEN observed a charge for repairs and fur niture is the British Ambassador's house at Paris. He wished to know whether, in addition to the rent of that establishment, this country was liable to a charge fur furniture? Lord SEYMOUR was understood to say that the barge for furniture only applied to the official rooms of the embassy. Colonel SIBTHORP, referring to the charge fur re airs at Buckingham Palace, wished to know whether, in addition to the grants made by the House, some additional sums were not paid by the Woods and Forests? Mr. HA YTER did not believe that any sum of money whatever was expended on Buckingham Palace, except with the cognizacce of the House. The Woods nd Forests undoubtedly took care of the Royal parks— ("Oh, oh," from Colonel Sibthorp, followed by great a ugh ter). Colonel SIBTHORP said ho should like to know what had become of the manic arch? The vote was then agreed to. 22,000/ for additions, alterations, and fittings at the Ordnanee-office, Pall-mall. • Mr. COBDEN wished to know if the estimate would over the whelp expense? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—It will. The vote was agreed to. 14,672/. to defray the expense of making an orna mental enclosure and forming a public garden in front of Buckingham Palace. In answer to a question by Lord JOCELYN, Lord SEYMOUR said that it was intended to plane the marble arch near Stafford House and the Green Park. No portion of ground would be taken from the public in any way, and they would have access to the gardens. Mr. OSBORNE asked if the vote included all the ex penses necessary. Perhaps the House was not aware that altogether the arch bad cost the country 120,0001. What was meant by groundwork of the garden? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed that it would not do to leave the arch where it was. Various sites for it had been under consideration, and the best appeared to ba that locality opposite the stable yard at the entrance to the Mall. It was proposed to replace the wooden boarding in front of Buckingham Palace with an iron palisade, smiler to that which formerly existed, atel to f inn two plots of garden in front of it at the tiger end of St. James's Park, to which the public will be admitted.--(llear.) St. James's Park was a place of groat resort, and he was happy to say that, notwithstanding the number of people who went there, no injury had ever been done to the shrubs or flu we-s. The proposed flower-gardens would not only heighten the architectural appearance of the palace, but would enlarge the space devoted to the recreation of the public. Tne present vote was not all that would be ne csszary to compltee the design. Mr. GOULBURN remarked that there were two dis tinct questions in the vote—the making an ornamental garden, and the completing the repairs of the palace and the removal of the arch. Notwithstanding the clear statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, it was impossible f or the House to understand what ground was to be taken for the proposed gardens, and he should sug gest that it would be more convenient if the Govern ment were to lay a plan on the table of the alterations proposed.—(Hear, hear.) As to the arch, he had some doubts a s to t h e propriety of placing it in' the centre of the Mall. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that no ground was to be taken from_ . the public, exce pt a small strip in f ront o f the iron palisade. To all the other portions of the proposed flower-gardens the public would be admitted. , Mr. OSBORNE thought if this was only a part of the s um necessary, the more prudent we would be to post pone the vote till the whol e estimate r was before them. He should move its postponement. Mr. BERNAL—It is not cotnpe t ent for a Member to move the postponement, ofthe vote. M r , OSl3Olt NE—Then I m ove it negatived,be DEUMMOND thought, th at before placing th e arch in the place p ro p osed, the y s hould ascertai n wh ther a coach cou ld be taken through Towerit.--(O h2 oul l d n e t was o : t Mr. et Hon. said that the arch in the ,Victoria admit of this.—(Hear, hear.) Was he to understand that the removing of the arch 300 yards was to cost 10,0001.?—( No, no.) The vote was for the rem ova l an approach to Buckingh am of the arch, and mak in g Palace." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that sum included making the enclosures, erecting the iron palisade in front of the palace , and removing and erect ing the . arch, Mr. V. SMITH was anxious to see the arch removed, but thought that sufficient explanation of the plans had not been given. Colonel SIBTHORP expressed his intention of sup porting the Hon. Member for Middlesex. The country was iaet in so prosperous a condition as to warrant these expenditures for repairs, alterations, and decorations. Lord SEYMOUR remarked that to negative the vote would be to leave the arch where it was. The items of the vote were —removal of the arch about 4,000/. ; iron railings to the palace, G,OOO/.; 5 per cent. commission on the expenditure to the architect.—(Laughter, with an exclamation, " There is no architect.") The 'expense this year would be about 14,000/, and probably the whole expense about 26,0001. Mr. S. HERBERT thought as there Wll3 a technical objection to any Member moving the postponement of the vote, the Government should of themselves postpone it.—(Elear, hear.) No one wished the arch to remain in its present position, but be would sooner see it remain there for a few months, than have it removed to an in appropriate site. The arch itself was a most beautiful work of art, and ought to be placed in a suitable situa. tion. He believed it was an intention of Lord Lincoln, when at the head of the Woods and Forests, to propose a continuation of the Mall eastward through Spring -gar dens to Charing-cross, and that the arch should be placed at the east entrance, exactly opposite to Buckin g . ham Palace-gate, at the other end of the Mall. With regard to the present plan he thought the House ought net to act prscipitetely, and hoped theGoverument would postpone the vote till some explanatory plan was on the table.—(Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER recol lected talking with Lord Lincoln on the subject of his plan, but thought that the expenditure necessary to ob tain the ground would be a formidable objection to it. But with regard to the arch, it must go.—(A. laugh.) He agreed that a scheme of this sort should be well con sidered, and was perfectly ready to adopt the sug gestion of the Right Honourable Gentleman to postpone the vote.—(Hear.) Vote accordingly postponed. 3,129/. to defray the expense of providing temporary accommodation for the Houses of Parliament. Mr. OSBORNE called the attention of the Committee to the questions connected with this vote. He wished to know who was responsible for the expenditure of the money for the new Houses? He was sorry to see around him so beggarly an account of financial reformers, when a vote of this kind wa.s to be discussed. In 1837 a Com mittee of the two Houses sanctioned the estimate given in by Mr. Barry of 707,104/.—(Hear, hear.) But thero had been already spent 2,045,923/.—(Hear, hear.) In the report of the Committee it was stated that this estimate of Mr. Barry was not to be considered as having their sanction. In fact it was no estimate at all. There were included in it a sum of 497,0001. for furni• ture and decorations. The useful portions of the build ing ought to be completed in the first instance. Mr. Barry had promised that the building would be com • pleted in six years. It was now sixteen years since it was begue, and it was not yet finished. In 1837 Lord Duncannon stated that the expenses of the building would not exceed 124,000/. ;Let the House compare that with the estimate sanctioned by the Commission in 1849. He wished to know who was the party responsible for spending the money? The Hon. Member for Lancaster was merely a sort of scapegoat in the matter, and had no control or responsibility. There was little or no control over the architect. In 1844 Mr. Barry stated to the Committee that the Woods and Forests had never asked for a plan, and that he could not tell what the ultimate cost of the whole building would be. Unless the House interfered, there was no saying what the ex pense would amount to. In 1848, the Noble Lord at the bead of the Government, speaking on this question, said that he hoped the estimate would not be excessive; but as to being responsible fur an architect, that was out of the question. Lord J. RUSSELL—That is not a correct 'statement. Mr. OSBORNE—It was taken from Hansard. In 1844 the Lords' Committee reported that Mr. Barry had departed from the original plan, and had made altera tions to it without any authority, and they called the attention of the House to the subject. With regard to one branch of the expenditure, it appeared that the Coin ' mittee of 1841 estimated the expense of warming and ventilating the House of Commons at 86,0001. It had already cost—not including the nine boilers-124,0001. —(Hear, hear.) He believed it was not competent for him to move in Committee the resolutions he bad placed on the votes, but he should certainly move that the vote bo negatived unless a correct estimate of the furni.hings be supplied. He hoped the Chancellor of the Exche quer would be able to give them an assurance that the House would soon be finished—that no commissioners of fine arts would be allowed to increase the expenditure or delay the works, and that they would be told whether those extraordinary shelves lately introduced into the House of Commons were intended for galleries, or merely receptacles for the journals of the House. Sir DE LACY EVANS said be did not wish to in terpose between the Chancellor of the Exehequer and any statement he might have to make, if that was not a regular time for him to introduce the motion which he had on the paper. Mr. BERNAL (Chairman) said the vote before them was a sum of 3,1291. for the temporary accommodation of the Commons. Mr. OSBORNE said he expected some explanation on the question. Captain BOLDER() complained that every expense connected with the House of Commons had not been put under one head, as it ought to have been. The vote was then agreed to. The CHAIRMAN next put the question that a sum not exceeding 154.660/. should be granted to her Majesty for the purpose of defraying the expenses of the works at the new Houses of' Parliament for the year ending the 31st of March, 1851. The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER had no wish to avoid giving explanations; but, on the contrary, was glad the Hon. Member for Middlesex (Mr. B. Os borne) had afforded him the opportunity of making them. The Hon. Gentleman said that after the old Houses of Parliament were destroyed, six years was the time which they were told it would take to replace them; but the House must remember that the 'reason why the works bad not proceeded at so rapid a rate was, because the adequate means had never b een vo t e d f o r th e purpose. A commission existed for superintending the arrangements of the new Houses, and an adequate control was given over the expenditure, but the House must recollect that, after all, the House of Commons itself was mainly re sponsible for the great expenditure that bad been in curred, because it was not the Government of the day, but a Committee of the two Houses of Parliament, which bad selected the architect and decided on the design that should be adopted and on the whole framework of the new buildings. The power of the Government to interfere in the matter was overruled by the masters of the Government in such cases—the House of Commons. The Honourable Gentleman com plained that a large sum of the excessive expenditure was incurred on the responsibility of the architect him self. Now that was not the fact. He had seen Mr. Barry only that day, and was informed by him that, to the best of his belief, on that part of the works included within his original estimate of 707,0001., there had been no excess of expenditure at all. A considerable number of alterations and additions had been made that were not included within that estimate, end in 1844 a Committee of this House Pat on the subject, and investigated the expenditure. That Committee imputed no blame to Mr. Barry, but expressed its belief that alt the alterations made conduced to the convenience and general effect of the building; and, in reply to a question which be (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had put to him that morning, Mr. Barry distinctly stated that no expen diture of any considerable amount had been incurred, excepting in strict accordance with the plans and designs submitted to that Committee. The expendi ture up to 1847 was certainly 1,016,000 L; but then it must bo remembered that Mr. Barry's original estimate was for the building atone, and did not include the pur chase of site (which cost 82,0001.), nor the River-ter race, which required another 139,0001. And in refer ence to Mr. Barry's estimate in 1849, that everything connected with the buildings would require an aggre gate expenditure of about 2,000,0001., it should;be recol lected that the following items were included in the es timate of 2,000,0001., but not in the original estimate of 707,0001., namely, purchase of site, embankment of river, extra cost of foundations, approaches, alterations of all kinds sanctioned in consequence of the recommen dations of the Committee, and the suggestions of Mem bers, additional warming and ventilation, fire-proofing, gas and water fittings, pictures, decorations, furniture, and incidental charges. The Honourable Gentleman said there was no check or control over the ex penditure. Now of course, as Chancellor of the Ex chequer, he was responsible, as far as his dis cretion went on this subject, as much as he was for aly other class of expenditure; but it was clearly not within his province to set himself in oppo sition to the decisious of this House. Tee only addi tionalai w nt dhai he attained. it h nh e eodu h . g a d h tr s rt a hh n ee c t principaloi o u n tl e a d y ai c e 1844 tw h aes oabbi e o€ x uc p tt s e 7 n .w d o o i h t ol u ei r: justifiedof t h e b s y e items were 1,500/. for improving the main sewer, 1, 0 00/. fir the smoking-room, and 3,0001. for conveniences to the library. All this outlay was made on the recom mendation of the Commissioners. With regard to the Hon. Gentleman's motion, two of the estimates now moved for by him were already upon the taele of the House. His (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) in tention was to take such a sum this year as would com plete all that portion of the building which would be necessary to enable the House to sit in the new building next session, with the library and corridors requisite for that purpose. He had made inquiries as to how much would be required by the contractor for that object, and also enable the other parts of the building to be gone on with slowly, so as to avoid loss, and he found that 1i4,6601. would be sufficient. He hoped he had now said enough to satisfy the House that no such excess of expenditure over the orig inal estimate as the Hon. Gen tleman suppose had actualy taken place, and that every reasonable check upon the outlay was afforded. Sir B. HALL could not understand how the original estimate had been so much exceeded. The architect, should have known the probable expenses of the foun dation when he sent in that estimate, and yet he had led the public to suppose that the building could, be com pleted for 707,000/. The Hon. Baronet then referred to the report of the Committee of the House of Lords, which stated that according to the evidence of Mr, Barry cart sin departures had taken place from the orig nal plans. _ The CHANCELLOR of th e EXCHEQUER said be bad stated what had been sanctioned by the Committee of 1844. Sir B. HALL said he was stating what was the fact. —(Rear, he ar .) I n 1837 M r. Barry had furnished plans c b o u n ii s d id a er m ab a l n e sion by whico it appeared that an expenditure of 707,0001. Was calculated on. But that had been exceeded to a amount. If a private party contracted to 60,000/., would for 20,000/., which subsequently cost architect who had they be warranted in blaming the present c erred them in such a manner? So it was in the been exceeded to a verase Ons T id h e e rab b l r e ig e i x b t al ent. Disputes, contract h a i d t appeared, had arisen b betw een H Mr. Barry Of the H ouse, and theabsedhaDdrießdetido as t o additionalthe ventilationexpense. he would say he which was believed he had never been chamberiniihjamenet, beeter ventilated and warmed than that in which they never heard of a whheether N hoped, ila t t e h earned p thenlp l ace s where , at— (H a e t a r , all hear)—andsons, thermometer varied so few degrees. He e mpty, the fore, that Dr. Reid would still continue to t warm that House. Mr. GREENE said, the return of last year showe d both the original estimate and the expenses occasion ed by alterations, and they had also a tolerably clear esti mate of what was intended to be done. He had no de sire to relieve Mr. Barry from any responsibility which might fairly attach to him, but it was only just that the House should take its own fair share of that responsi all this expenditure had been per bility, inasmuch as petually ,brought under their notice from year to year, and had received their sanctio n. Man y alterations were made at the express instaace of the House; for instance, the removal of the seats appropriated to Members be hind the Speaker's chair. It was argued that an archi tect ought not to depend on the discretion of a Commit tee, but should be able to judge for himself as to what would be the proper accommodation; but, however true this might be in the case of ordinary buildings, it by no te :anti followed th a t it m us t be equally true in the case ~ ft t a build ing l i k e t hi s, w i t h res p ec t t o which the archi ct bad scarcely any previous experience to guide him. THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 25, 1850, Again, en alteration had been made in the disposition of the benches. Origint.lly there were six rows, but on being tested, this proved so inconvenient that it was found necessary to remove one row, and an encroach ment was consequently made on the space devoted to strangers. Sir W. CLAY thought the Hon. Member for Middle sex had hardly made sufficient allowance for the great difficulties with which Mr. Barry had had to contend. All who had dabbled in bricks and mortar knew how hard a matter it was to keep within original estimates. If this was difficult when only one employer was to be consulted, how much more so must it be when there were a thousand, every individual of whom was at liberty to make suggestions and raise objections?— (Hear, hear.) It must be remembered that Mr. Barry had to deal with one of the largest buildings in the world, devoted to various purposes, and with respect to wash he had scarcely any experience to guide him. After all that had been said he believed the event would prove that Mr. Barry had solved the difficulty, and they would find themselves in a very comfortable and cer tainly very handsome House, though he did not believe it could be more comfortable than the one in which they now sat. It was impossible to attempt an adequate de fence of Mr. Barry, because that would involve the necessity of going through minute details to which the House would never 'Wen ; but the account fur nished at the beginning of 1849 appeared to him to contain his complete defence.—(An ironical cheer from Mr. Osborne.) One cause of the increase of expense was the enormous cost of the founda tions, and another the arragements for ventilation. He quite agreed with the Hon. Member for Marylebone that there never was a better ventilated chamber than the one in which they now sat; and any one who remem bered the deadly atmosphere of the old house on a crowded night must feel grateful to Dr. Reid. Perhaps, however, it was a mistake to give him co-ordinate power with Mr. Barry in making the arrangements. With re spect to the alterations, they had been approved by the Committee, and the explanation of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer showed. how slight they had been since 1844. It had become very much the fashion to undervalue the design, but speaking the opi nions of many more competent judges than himself, he had no hesitation in saying that it would be a noble and magnificent work, and would reflect high honour on the architects when they were gathered to their fathers. If objections might with justice be made to the site and order of architecture, let it be remembered that the Le gislature was answerable for both. He doubted now whether they had made a wise choice as to the latter.— (Hear, hear.) It was very well to say " hear, bear," now; but Hon. Members should recollect that the order was chosen almost unanimously. Probably the flowing continuous lines' of Grecian architecture might have been better adapted to so vast a pile; but taking it all in all, he believed it would be as fine a specimen of archi tecture as the world had ever seen. Mr. H. DRUMMOND thought their constituents had some right to ask how it was that they had been spend ing so many millions for a House of Commons, which, after all, they had not got, (Hear, hear.) Probably, as bad been observed, Parliament itself might be to blame, but it did appear to him very extraordinary that Com mittees, consisting of such very intelligent gentlemen, who had approved of these places, should have rested content with seeing one great wide space in the middle of the building called a House of Lords, and another wide apace called a House of Commons, and not bare thought it necessary to inquire whether it would hold the requisite number. It could be no very difficult mat ter to ascertain. They had only to take the fattest re presentative and multiply him by 658.—(Laughter.) Sir W. CLAY—You would have had a House twice too large. Mr. H. DRUMMOND—It 'was certainly the greatest absurdity that a set of intelligent men should have sanc tioned the construction of a chamber totally unfit for its purpose.—(Hear.) He had not the smallest doubt that Mr. Barry,must have bad-eery considerable difficulties to contend with, and did not think it at all fair to lay all the blame on his shoulders; but on this they might de pend, that cut and contrive as they would, they would be obliged to knock down the end of their House of Commons in order to extend their building. He bad had some experiende, and knew that there was no more difficult subject in the whole range of practical science. He knew many houses belonging to great noblemen and gentlemen of wealth in which immense sums of money had been expended for the purpose of warming them, but he did not know of a single successfel instance. All complained of being in ice cellars. No one seemed anxious to assume the responsibility of the building. Every one said to Mr. Barry, " You are no child of mine." It would be wise to put an end to all this dis play of ornament—these pictures, which, if sent through Europe, would not fetch 51. a piece. He knew, however, that it was of no use to run counter to public opinion. They were all lovers of the fine arts, and thought it was only necessary to have money to get as many Rsphaels and Michael Angeles es they wished, forgetting that art was not to be created by money. They might, how ever, console themselves with the reflection that all these brilliant external ornaments were not altogether thrown away, for they would make the most magni ficent menagerie of swallows' and sparrows' nests in the world.—(Laughter.) Colonel SIBTHORP thought the House might have rested well contented where they were. He called at. tention to the fact that some parts of the new building were alrerdy crumbling is consequence of the state in which the stone was worked. He agreed with the Hon. Member for Middlesex that they ought not to vote away the public money without inquiry, and they had no sa tisfactory statement from the Chancellor of the Exche quer as to what they would have to pay. A greater waste of money was never perpetrated than in building these houses, which, after all, would never be calculated for public business. Mr. COBDEN thought the House was indebted to the lion . Member for Middlesex for having called at tention to the subject. One good at all events had re sulted from it—that the responsibility of the under taking, which had been so long in abeyance, was at last fairly fixed on that House, and he very much feared that the whole sum expended upon it would be brought forward as an indictment against it, if not as an argu ment against its very constitution. But what was done was done, and there was no use in repining ; it was gone. He had heard it said by a very accomplished nobleman, and a very important judge in such matters, that these works would cost the country nearer 4,000,0004 than 2,000,0001.—(Hear.) It was for this reason that he was anxious for the House to assume the responsibility, and act as though respon sible. He saw no reason why the control of the expen diture should be placed in the hands of a Commission embracing individuals who were not Members of the House. Why not entrust it to a standing Committee, at all events during the session? He thought it would be a great improvement, also, if as in the case of the ordnance estimates and the estimates for Holyhead harbour, for instance, the estimate for the year was accompanied by a statement of the previous expenditure. Had this system been adored in past years the country would have been saved this enormous expenditure, He hoped, therefore, that the Right Hon. the Chancellor of th e Exchequer would consider the suggestion. Captain 13OLDERO said he never could understand why Mr. Barry should have been left without control, when an efficient superintendence might easily have been secured by having recourse to the Ordnance De partment or to the Woods and Forest'. The experience of the last 50 years had certainly proved that no public work was ever undertaken in which the expenditure did not exceed the original estimate; but still there was no instance on record in which the difference had been so great, and yet the work was not halt finished. Colonel SALWEY thought they had suffered them selves to be led into extravagant expenditure, by giving the building the name of a palace. Her Majesty was content to live in a house, and so surely might her faith ful Commons. The Hon. Member for the Tower Ham lets had told theta that the building was the largest in the world, but was it not extraordinary that they could not find accommodation in it for the Members of that House?—(Hear, hear.) He wished to ask the Hon. Member for Lancaster how many Members it would ac commodate ? Mr. GREENE held the return in his hand. It ap peared ihat the total number of seats is the new House was 446—(0h, oh! and cries of " Hear, hear")—the number of seats in the present House was 456—that in eluded the galleries in each House. The old House held only 387. Sir. B. HALL wished to know what the body of the new House would contain ? And he also wished to know what the side galleries would contain? Ile had been in the new House, and he thought the side galleiies might have been made larger, so as to contain two rows of seats. He wished to know also what accommodation would be provided for the public? Mr. GREENE said, the number for whom sitting ' room could be found on the floor was 277; in the presimt House the number was 296.—(A laugh.) In the gal leries, the number that could be accommodated was 133, and taking (as we understood the Hon. Gentleman, who spoke throughout very indistinctly) the end gallery, which would accommodate 66 more, that would give 192 in the galleries. Sir B. HALL was anxious t o k now 'the precise num ber that could be accommodated within the Rouse—the number in the side galleries, and the number in the gal lery opposite the Speaker's chair, which he understood was now to be appropriated to Members, to the detri ment. of the public. What accommodation, then, would there be for the public, and what accommode. tion for the Peers, because he saw some little benches on either side of the en trance, which .were nothing but returns in detail. With on to be gi ven to strangers, regard to the accomm(dati little Mr, GREENS pens Gß o E r E h N o E rse h - a b d ox suppose the gallery Spea ke r 's chair was ap propriated t the — A lau d g commodation to 120 persons. The S peaker s ga llery would contain 44 propriated to them, b i;,: li w in o d u! t d he atior advise the police per m so r n . s A , l a d n e d rm th a e n s i t i rr u eu m ge p r' ll s R ga E ll y ery wo b u eh id ind it 70. being b roug ht i n an d seate d i n the House—(G reat capabilities.laugter)tha w t h w xi o .a u te Coal ldhbetheExrcehadange was opened that iest way to tes t its expedient was had. recourse to. Mr. GREENE' said when the ventilation experiments were tried in the 'present House, a battalion of the Guards was brought in.: Mr. Aldermi n HUMPHERY had been told that the division lobbies' would not contain 150 * Members each, and when ho ha d spoken a b ou t i t t h e answer h e go t was, " Non sensi ~ you know nothing at all about it."— (Laughter.) It case.some of the large attendances they occasionally !taxi in that House occurred, they would have it somett iing like the black hole of Calcutta. — (Hear, hear.) It was on the whole a perfectly ridi culous affair to l regarded every one that had anything to do with it. Colonel SIB THORP wished to know whether it wall true that som ,t of the stones were already crumbing? Mr. GREE NE was not aware of anything of the kind. There might be a defective stone, , but the whole build ing was in a most 'satisfactory state. Sir H. VF, 4 7WEY said the opinion given to the archi tect by various Members was that the House ought not to be made inconveniently large. The question was the number that usually attended. When the House was very full it was perhaps better that Hon. Members should be a little squeezed than it should be made too large.—(Oh.) Mr. BANKES said that they were now told that the House of Commons were responsible for all the extra ! regent expenditure that had been incurred. He had taken every opportunity to complain of that wasteful expenditure of the public money, and should join the Hon. Member for Montrose in any motion expressive of that dissatisfaction at it. He complained of the de fective arrangement of the new House, by which the libraries were at so inconvenient a distance that Hon- Members must frequently be shut out upon divi sions. Indeed, all the defects of the existing House were still observable; the passages leading to the libra ries were dark and inconvenient, and there would be the great expense of keeping up the lighting and ventilation of that labyrinth of passages. All these things were un fortunately past remedy, but at least they could still exercise some control over the elaborate decorations that were proposed. He regretted also that it should have been called a palace, as it was not decorous to her Ma jesty, who had had nothing to do with it. Lord R. GROSVENOR called the attention of the Committee to the recommendation of the Committee of 1835, in which it was resolved that sittings should be provided in the body of the House, not for 300, but for between 420 and 460 Members—(Hear, hear)—and adequate accommodation for the remainder in the gal leries.—(Cheers.) The report then proceeded to take notice of the accommodation of strangers, which in their new House was to be to the extent of 120 to 140 in the gallery behind the Speaker's chair. The resolu tion was, that one or more galleries should be provided. not behind the Speaker's chair, but at the lower end of the House, for the accommodation of 200 strangers, with separate access, and retiring rooms during the time the House was cleared. Where those retiring rooms were he really did not know, and he doubted whether they existed at all.--(Hear, hear.) Then with regard to those boxes, that wore like the pens in Smithfield, the accommodation that was to be provided for Peers and other distinguished strangers was to the amount of 100, and these boxes would contain, he supposed, half a dozen on each side. Mr. B. OSBORNE—Fourteen in all. Lord R. GROSVENOR—What must. they think after all this of an architect who told them that the cost would be about 700,0001., and then they were to be told that they must ask no questions because the amount would be 2 , 0 00,0001. or 3,000,000/.? Only conceive, would any man recommend such an architect to another to erect a mansion? And after all, when they came to look at the accommodation they found that it was not only not better than at present, but that these inconve niences were increased tenfold, and it appeared to him that there was good ground for impeachment, and good cause for irritation not only in but out of that House. He believed the people would not grudge the expense if they thought their representatives were properly accom modated. He really hardly knew how to vote upon the question before the Committee. Mr. CUBITT said until the foundations had been laid—and it was impossible to ascertain what their ex tent or cost would be—no architect could give any esti mate of the probable expense of the building. Then the plans and drawings did not describe the highlv.decorated style of architecture that was adopted, and the character and magnitude of the building itself the architects had previously little experience of. The drawings could convey ao idea of the amount of decoration that had since been expended on the building. He thought the country would be proud of having erected a structure of such great beauty and magnitude, which in all probabi lity would endure for many centuries, and a; a work of art he thought it was worth their while to make it as good as it could possibly be made. No building in Eu rope of ancient or modern times could, in his opinion, be compared with it, and in a country which spent and was able to spend 50,000,000/. or 60,000,0001. per annum, he did not think they would grudge spending 200,0001. a year for the next ten or twelve years to render the building complete. Mr. B. OSBORNE thought the upshot'of the debate would, at all events, establish the fact that the House was totally incompetent to the management of its own affairs. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer got up and defended his share of the business; the First Commissioner got up and defended the Commission; the Hon. Member for Bedford eulo gised the ventilation; the Hon. Baronet the Member for the Tower Hamlets eulogised Mr. Barry, and thought them lucky because posterity would say the building was the finest in the world; and the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last admitted that the original estimate was only 770,0001., but, because the country was rich, we would not mind being cheated out of twice as much more. It mattered little to Hon. Members who would be starved to death in their Coinmittee-rooms what pos terity would s..y, or to those 270 Members who would be cramped together on the floor of the House. He was surprised that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer should have given the go-bye to the question of the expense of 200,0004 incurred for tem porary buildings, and the 2,000/. per annum they were paying for official residences, which Mr. Barry, eight years ago, promised to have completed, and which in 1842 he said would be finished in eighteen months. The most economical thing they could do would be to raise a sum of money, and finish the building at once.— (Hear.) There was another question that had not been alluded to—namely, the commission to be paid to the architect, that was originally fixed at 25,0001., and the bill now sent in by Mr. Barry, for commission, amounted to 72,000/.—(Hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer was now in active conflict with Mr. Barry on the subject, and he would be very much surprised if the Right Hon. Gentleman would not be obliged to succumb. He contended that a clear case had been made out that the original plan had been departed from. He suggested that two other Members should be added to the Com mission in the room of the Hon. Member for Lancaster, who had so many other duties to attend to, and of Sir John Burgoyne. He would recommend that Lord Sudeley and the Hon. Baronet the Member for Maryle bone be placed upon the Committee in their stead, other wise very little good would result from that debate. So far from being an honour to the country, be thought the whole thing was a disgrace and a slur upon the House of Commons. The Government ought to be made respon sible for the whole affair, and he suggested that Mr. Greene should be replaced by another Hon. Member, and Mr. Barry subjected to some control. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the architect had probably discovered that it was not easy to serve many masters. It was not, however true that either the present Government or the present House of Commons was responsible for what was undertaken by the then Government and the then House of Commons some fifteen years ago. What he :(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was responsible for, was the control of the expenditure. The alterations now referred to had been sanctioned by the Committee of 1844, and they were not responsible for them, and all the complaints of a waist of control referred to a period before that time. The Hon. Member for Montrose was one of those who strongly impressed upon the House the importance of appointing that Committee, having found fault with the expenditure. In compliance with the unanimous wish of the House that Comittee was appointed. He believed there had teen no complaint of want of control since the appointment of that Committee. The new House of Commons was formed exactly after a design recom mended by the Committee of 1849. He, therefore, dis claimed any responsibility on the part of the Govern ment in respect to the construction of that building. Sir DE LACY EVANS wished to point the attention of the Committee to the expenditure involved by the recommendation of the Committee of Fine Arts. There was to be one vote of 1,000 guineas for three pictures to ornament the refreshment room of the house of Peers. This was but one instance of the extraordinary and lavish expenditure of the body that presided over these transactions. The Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed to act upon the principle recommended, namely, that all the expenditure for ornamental matters should be post poned until the useful parts of the building were com pleted. But there was one little exception to that reso lution which was made in reference to an item of 4,0001. a year, which the Right Honourable Gentleman pro posed to allow intermediately for the purposes of the fine arts; and the condition attached to this vote was that an account be laid every year before this House as to the distribution of the money during the past year. He (Sir De LicY Evans) thought that if the Right Ho nourable Gentleman reversed that proposition it would be much more advantageous for the country, namely, t o require an account to be laid before the House, setting forth the items that were proposed to be expended in the next year. There was, it appears, an item in the estimates of 3001. for a cartoon and fresco of " St. Cecilia;" one of 4001. for a cartoon and fresco of " Lear and Cordelia;" and one of 1,800/. for models of statues for the House of Lords. If the models cost so much, he would be glad to know what the statues themselves would cost. Even if this were a proper place for such pictures, he did not think that these expenses should at the present time be allowed. He would, therefore, op pose the vote. If they went on from year to year al lowing 4,000/. each year to be thus expended, it would, in his opinion, take fifty years to complete the erne. mental part of the building. The highly-prized pic ture of Landseer it was intended to place in a position i where the public would not be all owed t he opportunity there that f of seeing it. There was a very im perfect light in the Peers' refreshment-rooms ; and he had been told not or any the o lastth e two months. Noble Lord Lords had iie taken did n a ot dinner deny but this might be a the Houseencou ragingth of the opinion b ut h ex pressed e would beg leave tornd the fine arts, fi t ti n g opportunity for by Lord Sudeley, a nobleman of acknowledged taste , upon this subject , in a Committee of the House of Lords in 1844 . In answer to some observations made by Mr. Barry , respecting the in troduction of frescoes into the new building, Lord Sudeley said, "If the buildings of the Houses of Par liament are meant for the productions of the fine arts, Mr. Barry may be correct; but I consider that the Houses of Parliament are built for no such purposes. The fine arts ought certainly to be called in to embellish these Houses; but the convenience of the public oug h t not to b e sacr ifi ce d f o r this display." He called upon really been the Chanc e ll or o f t h e Exchequer to say what number o f orders bad b een g i ven to artists. If these orde rs h a d given, and that the artists had devoted their time and talents to the execution of them, he was cer tainly not disposed to refuse them compensation. Under the head of engagements entered into and not yet paid, there was an item of 2,2501. which he should wish to have fully explained. He would move that 1,000 guineas be deductod from the vote. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought that they h a d a l rea d y d o ne that to which the Hon. and Gallant Member re f er red; for he admitted that this wa s a fitting opportunity for encouraging the fine arts. Let him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) remind the Com mittee that the whole of these matters bad been carefully considered and discussed, and had generally been settled. By the sanction of both Houses of Parliament Ibis cm. mission was appointed for the purpose of making those regulations connected with the fine arts. With all de ference to ourselves, he thought that we were a very bad committee of taste.—(Hear, hear.) From what had already taken place, ho believed that we would be the very worst body that could be appointed to direct the public taste in this respect.—(Laughter.) The names of those composing the Commission were very well known to everybody, and he thought that the arrange ment made two years ago was the very best that could be made. He disclaimed the exercise of any influence in matters of taste.—(Hear, hear.) He felt that the inter ference of the Treasury as to the selection of particular works of art would not be likely to lead to a satisfactory result. All that the Government did was to fix the limit of the expenditure yearly for those purposes. Ho was not aware that there was any engagement entered into beyond what was stated in the estimate. Mr. STANFORD wished to know whether the Hon. and Gallant Member for Westminster made his objec tions from economical views ? With regard to the fine arts he was sure that hardly any Honourable Member could be found who would not admit that, before the Commission had been appointed in connexion with the building of the Houses of Parliament, the school of his toric art had been always wanting. In a valuable little work, called " The .Fine Arts Almanack," it was stated that the great historic school of art had not arisen until the burning of both Houses of Parliament had exposed the nakedness of the land relative to historic painting. When we viewed the great exhibition of cartoons and oil paintings which had followed that calamity, there was no Englishman but felt the opprobrium that had hung upon this country in the want of this school of art. The splendid works of genius that were then pro duced gave a triumphant contradiction to the charge of being deficient in great painters, and relieved this coun try from the charge that had heretofore stood agaiast us. It was known to every dilettante that it was impossible to give full encouragement to the arts unless they furnished large and spacious walls for exhibiting frescoes and historical pictures. The only opportunity they had of encouraging such arts was when they were erecting large buildings like these new Houses of Parliament, and when they could command the talents of the ablest men in the profession. It was becoming a great nation like this to take a high stand in the historical school of art. Even looking at the ques tion in an economical point of view, he was ready to meet the objections of the Hon. and Gallant Member for Westminster. The Hon. and Gallant Member must admit, that it was beneficial to the manufacturing in terest to form a high school of design, and every one knows at what a disadvantage our manufacturers would be placed in competition with the productions of foreign countries if we had not this school of design. On all grounds he thought that this sum of 4,0001. yearly for the encouragement of the school of arts and the pro motion of the school of design was the most eco nomical and beneficial vote that this House could come to.---(Loud cries' of " Hear, hear.") He hoped that this vote would have the effect which we all so much desired—that men of talent, taste, and judg ment would be chosen to give effect to and to execute these designs. No one could read the name of Landseer without feeling persuaded that we had chosen one of the greatest artists in this. or any other country.—(Hear.) He felt that the Committee would be fully justified in agreeing to this vote. Sir B. HALL had understood his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for Westminster to say that he con sidered it a strange and novel mode of proceeding to purchase the pictures of Landseer for the purpose of putting them up in a place where no one could see them except the cooks and waiters of the House of Lordi' re freshment-room's, and a few of the Peers themselves. If we were to vote money for the encouragement of the fine arts, which he would be perfectly willing to do, let it be with the understanding that the pictures were to be placed before the public view—but he would oppose the vote otherwise. There was another point for our con sideration. We have to vote 1,8001. for models for statues for the House of Lords. He had been to see those models. There were 18 of them. It appeared that the Committee appointed to select the small statues were prepared to recommend such on account of the nar row size of the niches in the gothic form, which would necessarily restrict the choice of attitudes; that the cha racter of the statues shall be severe and monumental, and free from all design and action. Now there were 18 of those barons and prelates that had witnessed the signing of Magna Cbarta to be placed there. Being anxious to see what the progress of the fine arts was in this country, he went to the studio of Mr. Thomas, a countryman of his own, in Lower Belgrave-place, who had produced some very fine works of art. He there saw statues of severe and monumental character, with out action. They were the statues of the late Bishop of Dublin and the Earl of Pembroke. He asked the artist wby it was he made the shoulders of his statue so narrow—that he had never seen a man in his life with such narrow shoulders? The reply of the sculptor was, "Mr. Barry will not allow us any more room."— (Laughter.) That was what they called encouraging the tine arts.—(Laughter.) The House of Lords was the most gaudy, the most meretricious of public buildings.— (Hear.) He asked them, was it not preposterous to call upon artists to make statues to decorate such ts place, and yet not give to them sufficient space?—(Hear.) He thought it was quite absurd to say they were encouraging the fine arts, when artists were called is and yet no op portunity afforded to them of displaying their skill.— (Hear.) Why select Mr. Landseer, who was at the head of their artists, and required no encouragement from them? Why not throw open the decoration of the House to public competition? He would gladly give 40,0001. to encourage the fine arts, but he objected to spend their money in this way. Lord MAHON did not feel entitled to make any statement on the part of the Royal Commissioners, some of whom were members of her Majesty's Government, and he had not been aware that this subject was to be discussed there that night, but still he wished to add some observations to those already made by the Chan cellor of the Exchequer. The Hon. and Gallant Mem ber for Westminster had said that what was dune by this Commission was the work of the secretary and of one or two other persons. The Hon. and Gallant Member was in error. The meetings of the Fine Arts Commissioners were all stated in the public papers, and it would be found that they were in general largely attended. The reports of what was done were sent for approval, and the signatures withheld if what was reported did not meet with approval. The Hon. and Gallant Member next stated that the Commissioners had ' recommended the erection of several hundred statues. Sir DE LACY EVANS explained. Lord MAHON had understood the Hon. and Gallant Member to make it as a matter of charge against the Pine Arts Commissioners that a great number of statues had been recommended by them. The Commis missioners had desired the erection of a certain, but smaller, number of statues, and they appointed a Committee to consider the names of all who wore distinguished in history, in science, and in literature, who might be entitled to such an honour. That was a mere table from which a selection was to be made, but the number actually recommended to be erected did not exceed fifteen or eighteen. The Honourable and Gallant Member had mistaken the list from which a selection WAY to be made for that which actually had been se lected.—(Hear, hear.) He then came to the three pic tures to be placed in the refreshment-room of the House of Lords. The Commissioners felt that they would in adequately consult for the present state of the arts if they did not endeavour to avail themselves of the emi nent talents of Mr. Landseer.—(Hear, hear.) It was under thet impression that they desired to have three pictures from Mr. Landseer. The Honourable and Gallant Member had raised a laugh on a former oc casion by stating that the subjects were to be those of the chase. But, then, why call upon Mr. Landseer to exercise his genius except on subjects on which it might be conspicuously displayed? Then are objection had been raised as to the place where these pictures were to be placed —namely, in the , Peers' refresh ment-rooms. Now, he had to state explicitly that the Commissioners had desired to have these pictures in another place, and a considerable body IS them had visited various sites in the building for the purpose of discovering a more appropriate place, but they could not think of any place more suitable, or, he ought to say, less unsuitable than the refreshment-room of the Peers; but then it never was intended that the public should not have the advantage of inspecting these pic tures. The public could be admitted in the morning, at a time when the Peers were not occupied; and the Com missioners not only desired but intended that the Peers' refreshment-room ahould be accessible to the public.— (Hear.) With re . spect to the nichis ' in the House of Lords, he did not think that blame was attributable to the architect. They must have the style of that period, and they all knew that was'marked by a certain rigidity of limit ; and if they were to depart from that, they would no longer represent the time it was intended to depict.—(Hear.) Mr. OSBORNE objected to the pictures being placed in a dark room, where they could not be seen plainly for two hours in the day. Ho denied that it was in .tended.by that House, in building a Parliament-house, to encourage the fine arts, and if they did, that was not a way to encourage them. He objected to what they had done with respect to Mr. Landseer, who was not merely at the top of the profession,hut of the world. He was for abolishing the committee of fine arts, those nineteen dilletante gentlemen who passed their mornings in spending the public money; and if any gen tleman would second the motion, he would move their abolition. What were they doing?—cramming into narrow niches men with narrower shoulders.— (Laughter.) If the originals had had such narrow shoulders they never would have wrung Magna Charts from the Monarch.—(Laughter.) He would vote against the item as a censure upon the Committee of fine arts. Colonel RAWDON maintained that the Commis sioners of fine arts had done much to encourage art in this country, and he referred to the frescoes of Mr. Dyes and Mr. Maclise, and others, as exciting the admiration of artists in other countries. He recommended the Hon. Members who found fault with the Gothic sculptures in tended to be erected in the House of Lcrds to study Flaxman and other authors. Lord C. HAMILTON remembered that the Hon. and Gallant Member was himself an artist, and had proved by his own productions that he had peculiar notions on the subject of the fine arts.—(Hear.) In the vote he in tended to give he wished not to be understood as pass ing any censure on the Commissioners of fine arts. Instead of encouraging art, they were going t bury those paintings in a place where they never could be properly seen. In recording his vote in favour of the amendment, he did so, not through any want of appre ciation of high art, but because of the inappropriateness of the locality end of the decorations proposed for it. Colonel DUNNE protested against their lavishing sums of the public money in decorating the Peers' refreshment-rooms, when they were taking away from the hospitals of Dublin small sums which would greatly benefit the poor of that city if not withdrawn. After a few words from Sir DE LACY EVANS, The Committee divided, when there appeared— For the original vote 75 For Sir De Lacy Evans's amendment ... 94 Majority in favour of the amendment ... —l9 The amendment was accordingly carried. The next vote was 1,300/. for the expense of certain public buildings in the Isle of Man. Mr. V. SMITH was understood to object to the item of 3001. for building a gaoler's house, and for alterations in Castle Rushen; but upon an explanation by Mr. Haver, the vote was agreed to. The sum of 92,8741. on account of the works at the new packet harb sus and harbour of refuge at Holyhead, and to defray the expense of the present harbour estab lishment at Holyhead, &c., was then voted after a short discussion. The vote of 151,500/. for the harbours of refuge was postponed. The next vote proposed was 18,093/. 4s. 3d. for the ex pense of maintaining and repairing public buildings in Ireland, inland navigation, and other services. Colonel DUNNE wished to know, as the office of Lord- Lieutenant was to be abolished, what was to be done with Dublin Caste? A palace, they were told, was to be re served for the occupation of her Majesty, when she went over to Ireland—it that ever happened; but what use was to he made of the Castle? Wai the Court Secretary to reside there? There was another item for the Royal Hospital. Kilmaiuham which was instituted in the reign of Charles 11., fat veteran Irish soldiers; and he should like some information about this also. It had been re ported that the establishment was to he broken up, and the Irish pensioners removed to Chelsea; and his wanted to know what the Government intended to do? The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER said that the Lord-Lieutenant, it even the Bill tur the abo lition of the office should pass, would not be in a condi tion to leave the Castle this year, and the vote was re quired fsr necessary repairs. After a few words fr-m Colonel SIBTHORP, Mr. M. O'CONNELL took it for granted that the Go vernment were now ashamed of the Bill they had brought in; for if they were going to take away the Lord-Lieutenant, what did they want with such isems as 4521. for furniture of the state apartments, and that for tae, house of the private secretary to the Chief Secretary ? Mr. OSBORNE observed that a sum of 581. was in cluded 'in this vote for the repair of Irishtown Church in Dublin. This was a Protestant church, and he thought the Establishment ought to be called upon to repair the building and not the public. He wished for some ex planations upon this item. Mr. HAYTER said the church was a small building in one of the worst localities in Dublin—(No, no)—and it was much frequented by the military, who were sta tioned in the vicinity. Mr. OSBORNE said that was a very bad reason for the vote. The sum was trifling, but it involved a prin ciple, and therefore he should move that this 581. be dis allowed.—(Hear, and " Oh.") Mr. GROGAN pressed for an answer to the question whether Dublin Castle was to be maintained as an oc casional residence for her Majesty, like Pecenix Park Lodge? Sir G. GREY could give no certain information upon that subject; but it was quite clear that the state apart ments must be kept up, because the only reception rooms were in the Castle. Mr. TAYLOR adverted to the reports respecting the Royal Hospital at Kilmainham, and asked the Secretary at War what was intended to be done with that estab lishment? Mr. F. MAULE, in reply, said an impression ap peared to have gone abroad that it was intended to abolish Kilmainham Hospital; but he could assure the Honourable Gentleman no decision had been come to upon that subject. It was true the Committee upon the army estimates had directed their attention to the consideration, whether the purposes of the establishment might not be answered by that at Chelsea; but they had done nothing more than take evidence. They had not even formed au opinion upon the subject, and of course until their report was received the Government would take no steps in the matter. Colonel SIBTHORP then moved that the vote be reduced to 16,892/. 14s. 3J. by the deduction of 1,2401. 105. for the maintenance and repairs of the Royal Col lege of St. Patrick's, at Maynooth.—(Cries of " Divide.") Lord J. MANNERS and Mr. DISRAELI asked for the reasons why this sum was included in the estimate? Mr. HAYTER replied that the Act of Parliament 8 and 9 Vic., c. 8, authorised the Government to repair the College of Maynooth, but it omitted to make provi sion for the purpose; and no provision being made, it was necessary a vote should be taken for the repairs. Colonel SIBTHORP—Then I wish to stop it.—(A laugh.) Lord J. MANNERS inquired whether 1,2001. were to be called for every year for repairs; and wished to know the amount of the last vote? Mr. HAYTER—The sum voted last year was 1,114/. In reply to a question, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that the money voted last year had been spent upon repairs of the old buildings, which were in a bad con dition. Mr. REPTON said he could testify, from personal knowledge, that no repairs had been made to the old buildings. They were in the same state now as they were two years and a half ago. Mr. 11. DRU VIMOND could not consent to try the question of Maynooth upon this vote ; neisher could he consent, under the pretence of repairs, to go on building a new college of Maynooth. Mr. HAYTER assured the Honourable Gentleman that she sum now asked for was entirely applicable to repairs. Whether the state of the buildings required the amount, he could not say, except that it was certi fied as being required by the Commissioners of Public Works. Lord J. MANNERS could not see that any groun d had been shown to lead the House to believe that the sum asked for was to be Lena fide expended in main , taining in a proper state of repair the old building of Maynooth. Mr. HAYTER observed that the Commissioners of Public Works would be guilty of a gross breach of duty if they applied money voted by the House for one pur pose to another.—(Hear.) The Committee then divided. The numbers were— For Colonel Sibthorp's amendment ... 47 Against it ... ... 124 Majority ••• ••• —77 Tho amendment was consequently rejected. Mr. OSBORNE then renewed his objections to the item of 58/. for Irish town Church, and intimated that he should take the sense of the House upon it. Mr. S. HERBERT, who had been appealed to, said he should object to the refusal of this item. Irishtown church was now mainly used for the military until ar rangements could be made for building them a chapel; and in that case Irishtown church was to be made the church of a large parish. But until that event occurred, it was a military chapel.—(Hear.) Lord J. MANNERS asked the Hon. and Gallant Member for his reasons for opposing this particular item ? Mr. OSBORNE replied that the Roman Catholic church did not receive a single penny from the State, and the Protestant establishment had 400,000/. a year, therefore it ought to pay this miserable 584 Lord J. MANNERS observed that the vote the House had just arrived at was a conclusive answer to the Hon. Gentleman, for the House hal just voted a sum of money substlntially to the Irish Church. Afcer some further conversation the amendment was withdrawn, and the vote agreed to. A sum of 10,7881. was voted for the works and re• pairs of Kingston Harbour. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and ob tained leave to sit again. The. House resumed. Mr. BERNAL brought up the report of the votes of supply on the navy estimates, which were severally agreed to. The Exchequer•bills (8,558,7001.) Bill went through Committee. THE POLICE AND IMPROVEMENT (SCOT , LAND) BILL. On the question that thi; Bill be read a third time, Mr. SMOLLETT said he thought it stood in great mod of amendursnt, and intended to propose amend ments, if he had an opportunity. Mr. DUNCAN wished the Bill to be postponed to the 7th of June. Mr. F. MAULE would consent to the postponement, if it was the general wish of Hon. Members. The Bill was then postponed to Fridny next. The Elections' (Ireland) Bill was postponed to Monday. The West India Appeals Bill was read a third time and passed. The Alterations in Pleadings Bill was read a third time and passed. _ REGISTRATION OF DEEDS. On the question that the Registration of Deeds (Ire land) Bill be read a third time, Mr. P. WOOD asked when they might expect to have the report of the Commission, appointed three or tour years ago, to inquire into the expediency of a general registry of deeds in England? Sir G. GREY had expected that the report would have been finished long since. The Commissioners had been engaged in preparing it, and he had every reason to believe that it would be produced at a very early day. Mr. H. DRUMMOND said, that when he brought the subject before the House last year he was recom• 'mended not to proceed with his Bill until after the report of the Commission should be presented. He then doubted its early appearance, and what had since transpired had confirmed the doubts which he then entertained. It was almost impossible for any independent Member to carry a measure of this kind through Parliament, and as he thought he could not do better than entrust the further progress of the measure to the real reforming law officer of the Crown—an animal almost as extraor- dinary as a Whig ChancelloroitheixchfquW;iiCa shilling in his pocket—(Loud laughter)—be should, therefore, take an early opportunity of discharging the second reading of the Bill. Colonel DUNNE said the opinion in Ireland as to he value of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's law re- forms was very different from that expressed by the Hon. Members who had spoken. A Member of the House, whom he did not see in his place, told him that the sub stitution which was propose , ' for the present simple mode of registration in Ireland, was one of the most compli cated and difficult description, which he doubted if the Hon. and Learned S9licitor-General understood himself. He then referred to the operation of the Encumbered Estates Act, and said that there was no such thing as property now recognized in Ireland—that there had not been such a court in Ireland for the lust 700 yt arB. (Hear, hear.) He would not, however, oppose th, Bill. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL deprveat , d the system of dragging in the working of the Encumbered Estates Bill on the discussion of a question like the present; but as it had been done, be wi.h6d to refer to a statement made a few nights ago by the Honourable Member for Roscommon, to the effect that the Cornmi had sold land as belonging to one estate, which actually formed part Of another. The circumstances Were there: —the ancestors of the gentleman whose estate was E i; pee had leased the adjoining estate, and bad confused. I • tore, boundaries between them. The Commissioners, t .b e in selling the estate, had sold it s ubject to I ,` t proper boundsries being afterwards ascertained; 00 La in point if fact, they had not sold any part of th ° joining estate—(Hear, hear.) The Bill was then read a third time and nosed. The Convict Prison s Bill went through Com Bit' tttew'ot The Municipal Corp o rations (Ireland) through Committee. nSI) th e On the motion of Mr. HENRY DRUM , - kr- - re' cs order for the s, cond reading of the Rs at Property .01 fer Bill was discharged. Home ,i The Hoe then , lj•,urned at half.P est Tvrelveoe‘ THE COUNTRY MARKET:Iot, WAKEFIELD, MAY 24.—We have a good supPlY e c . l n d for and of other articles moderate. There is a fair d fresh wheat at a decline of :is per quarter, whilst other;ilu,io,. are neglected, but sales are not pressed at the reduced Poo Barley meets with some inquiry at its previous Taluciirovo4- and shelling are fully as dear. Beans dull and easier top od New. WHEAT, per qr. 601bs per bushel I. 5* t 0 Suffolk, Essex, and Kent, red ... 40 to 42 Ditto, white ... 43 48 Norfolk and Hunts., red 38 -- 49 Ditto, white ..„ 42 — 45 , Lincolnshire and Cambridge, red ... — 39 - Ditto, white ... 40 -- 41 'Yorkshire, red .., 36 — 33 „..... Ditto, white ... ... 40 -- 44 Dantzic and Konigsburg, white 45 Lower Baltic and Hamburgh, rad... 36 -- 39 Mediterranean, red ... 30 4 BARLEY, per quarter of 8 bushels:— .. -- - "-* Norfolk a - nd Lincolnshire and Yorkshire Scotch Grinding per 30 stone „„ —•—• / 0 .0 Foreign ... 22 --- 25 BEANS, per quarter of 8 bushels 631 b s o'' •• Small, fine ••• 27 2 '" Ticks ••• ••• •• • ••• 26 — 2B •••• Foreign „, 23 28 OATS, per stone:— od to o j ?dealing • ••• ••• 8d to 90 O tt to o j Feeding „ 8d to 9d oj to Foreign ... 8d to 9d SHELLING, per load of 2611 b ••• 21 44 •"" MALT, per load of 6 imperial bushels 33 35 PEAS, per Imperial Quarter:— Blue and white boilers Grey and Feed 0° .... .. ...... ..... ...... .10 ..... .0.• ..... ...." ..., , . 6 2 o .. 24 -- '-,.. ~... ... 23 --• J Q ll ' Rapeseed ••• Shelling ••• Linseed ••• '" Malt ... ••• .0 Flour ... '" Qre. Wheat ... 14,710 Barley ... ... 2,10,1 Oats ... 912 •• VA L& Beans... ... 1,988 Peas ... 323 ; s Tares ... I •-• rs, dai f ICKWBURT, MAT 23.—The supply of whe to moderate, yet more th an equa l t o the requireinbenso trade, sales proceeding very slowly; and alt h° ", 00 4 0 ment of is to 2s per quarter was submitted to, le - w ish a lace tity remains untold. Barley, moderate suPPIY', o je, a t ;f el. sale at full rates. Beans, a good supply, ,re pf' s rates. Peas and oats, short supply, and fair sale' ii t 'bere frsi f lio LIVERPOOL, MAT 2-I.—At this day's mar ket t rade , for very limited attendance of the town and countrY soe sei a p purchased sparingly of whe a t a t a b ou t Tuesday s ° 701 0 , 6 . fine descriptions, and a reductio n o f Id to 2 d P e tbeing sl middling and inferior runs. Good oat' and osttne s 0 0 0 tremely scarce, holders were enabled to realise a° Old r ev met with a limited retail sale, at late r ates. Fl otorbod tremely difficult to move, buyer s b e i ng generallY Ire o sot 16 10 and to have made progress with sa l es lower pric e. t full been acceded to. Indian cor n was i n fair reque st 41 rates. p o ff be :;f l EXETER, MAY 24.—Cattle Market—The OP. ly 00 1 driven in to-day was very heavy, b u t gen erally the t l er leo te d, dull. Pork Carcases—The supply to-day WO 11 ,heo last week, but prices remain nearly the same as ' 6o sril i e Dot ranging from 6s up to is 6d per score. Wool —T h e e ; day is quiet. The staplers will give sixpence F i : n gs, 45 6 d; are anxious to buy at that price. Pannier— Do c ' 4 ' 31 0 0 per couple ; galenas, 5s ; spring chickens, 21 " 6 4 5 'caro fowls, 3s 61 to 4s 6d ; pigeons, Is 8d to 2s ; roaste r l a , s p each ; butter, 8d to 9d per lb ; eggs, 22 to 24 for bo iod Exchange, One o' c l oc k—W e canno t re port ouch dal 01100 to this hour. The decline in Mark-lane on 31°P „ t iett 5 ' lof t dered the millers and f ac t ors more t h an usu ally "% t it if e h or general price asked by th e growers h as been 5s 6 d , :' ha se, "of not heard that that figure has been given —oa k° fora 4 sho l ever, been effected at 5s 3d per bushel. We ther e do oV ect s actual sales at from Si to 5s 3d, although there is n „ ° ,lit large quantities of the best wheat could not be b e 'T a t gr' the latter figure. Foriegn wheat is offered at prices; hard Ressian, 36s 6d; Polish Odessa, 0 0 0 dr of 480 lbs. delivered at the station. Barley o " , s „ to 3t)" 3s per bushel ; oats, 2s to 2 s 3d. Fi n e flour, Jt sack. tipP li° oe BRISTOL SUGAR MARKET, MAT 24.-- - he sresc:roor' still very short, a n d th e t ransact i ons o f the , re„,er, quently restricted ; th e t one o f th e mar k e t is, h° lll oo, Refined goods have m e t a rea d y sa l e at i m prove d "" A fee and moiasses very dull.—:-Bristol Mercury. , to le , i r WET/MUST, MAT 23.—White w h e at 15s 6( ' ditto 141 Od to 15s 6d per lo a d ; b ar l e y 215 I°' per i t°ne i' ° beans 10s lid to 1250 d per load ; oats 7ito 9d r e m dilf SCA anottouatr. MA/ 23.—Red wheat 4s 9d t°, 7d, disk ditto 5s ud to Si 9d per 5 stones; black oats 6° 0 7, 0:5;i 5, ditto 7d to 8d per stone ; malting barley to , -1 3 00 1 Y ditto 17s to 191 per qr. of 32 stones; superfine tic° oi; seconds ditto, 24s to 27s per sack of 20 stones- m ° to 61 0il ° KNARISBOROUGII, MAY 24.—Wheat 5 6 Oh" beans 3s 6d to 3194 per bushel ; b ar l e y 24 5 to 2 0 ' litd 41'4 20s per qr. LLANRWST, MAY 22.—Our market was well outroist grain, which caused a fall in the price of wheat e f 00'1 per hobbet, on last we e k' s quotat i on. c RitYL, MAT 21.—W e h a d a sma ll er su pplY 0' alo°l3tljer cu market this day, th an h as b een ex hibi ted for mauY; e r o r ; s s there appeared no inclination on the part of boY e h ' ut fo' h Dc' t do business, many sam pl es were not opened, and,A"-oer were effected. Prices of w h ea t must b e quo ted ni g P e ' below last week. In o th er gra i n t h ere was b u t II I " alb stationary prices. I '4 l ' l 4" INVERNEUS, MAY 21.—Wh ea t, per qr , vreig- g fe bushel, 36s 6d to 38s 6d ; barley, per quarter' ,so o riv 541 b per bushel, 19s to 20s Od; oats, per clu g , rte e rs er i°l l}s tne_ a l; 421 b per bushel, 17s Od to 20s Od. Oatmes",Vodl r 4; boll, 15s Od to Os Od; ditto second, 1410 d to '„A" br j meal, 12s 8d to Os Od ; peasemeal, 14s ud to 05 Od t °'lib of stone, Os 6d to Os Od ; first flour, per 280Ib , lie - lel • r ot ° $ r second ditto, 26s Od to 28s Od ; oatmeal, best, pe r od; bough imperial, is lid to Os Od; ditto second, Is 4d t0 .. ,° 1 fire et meal, Is 2d to Os 04 ; peasemeal, Is 4d to Os 1)° ,. ; 2s 4d cash, 2s 8d credit ; second ditto, 250 d ca s "; poio, o dit. Potatoes, p er s t one , 4%d to 5d ; beef , 3c l '04," to 6d; veal, 4d to sd ; mu tt on , 4d to 6d; P°, r''l6d; fowls, each, 10d to 12d; chickens, per pair, 1 2 u t f u ster% 0, 4 1 ; each, Od to Od ; egg s , p er d ozen , 4%d t o sd; 7, i irdi,/,' 0 61" per lb, 9d to 10d ; d i tt o , sa l t , 9d to lo d ; c roudie,t; 20; four-pound loaf, cas h, 5d t o 6d ; ditto, crew" coals, per cwt, 9d ; hay, per stone, 7d to Bd. COAL MARKET.—YxsTsaI/S• 1;41 Buddle's W. Hartley 13s Od, Haswell .......••••' ..... i ii 71 East Adairs Main 118 Odlieepi r Gi.a.n.ge ''''' . ? I s e:, Hasting's Hartley l3s 1 - e '''' . I'9' 6d Lambton ........ 0 • i y i i North Percy Hartley 135 Od Lumle .".. . y ......... 0 ,,, 40 Ord's Redheugh Tanfield Moor .... l3s Od Stewart's .................. , ;51 West Wylam 1 Wylam Wall's End, &c. Cowpen Hartley .. , l ei .. • Bewicke and Co. _ t _.••,_,--• .......... a t Hilda l3B 6d Howard's — NY: . °l ‘' 00 ° 90 9 %1 Northumberland Walker ... 13s 6d Cardiff •••• •'' ' ~ .•'" 'O O Eden Main lss Od Sidney's FlartleY i e ., 3 Hetton _ 16s 3d Whitworth Coke " Ships at m larkot. 92. - RAILWAY SHARE MAW' b ot gr t i li : BRISTOL, MAT 24. # de& STOCK EXCHANGL—Prices were improve , ' ° b . ' a ow' AW E amount of business done was ve r y li m ited, and,, r tion we have to noti ce i s G rea t W e stern, ‘i ti ick closed at 14. 0 1 LIVERPOOL, MAY 21. , were STOCK EXCHANGE.-- The transactions to - da y low:—London and North-Western, 103 1 .4 fli b re. 0/ Quarters, 13s. 9d. dis.—Lancashire and Yorii"Dittoei 3814 c. - Ditto, Fifths, 91. lls. 3d. di # ,e• .4 0 0,17 4 0 0 Riding Union), 8/. 3s. 3d.—Lancaster and rr`L r encr, o'll Manchester. tiheffield, and Lincolnshire,. Pr g— So e rt: Sto Midland, 3414. Ditto, Halves, 27% dib (A), 233%-• South , Eastern and Dover, Con 15 11 —Ditto (No. 4), R eg i stere d, 43,4—BIrkenbe s. ,150, 10 18 and Cheshire (lat e C. an d B) , 6 per cen t. 11 11 9d.—York, N ewcas tl e , an d B erw i c k (G. N .• 6 per cent. till 18',0, 6 5 1 4 dis. br 4 MANCHESTER, MAY 24. , efi re STOCK EXCHANGE.—The share market l o cas lll to-day, and prices are hi g h er , espec i a lly in ' m Yorkihire stock. 1/ 01) i BIRMINGHAM, MAY 2 ' . .. 10 fr.voOlfrO STOCK EXCHANGE.—Our share market ". int if mate to-day. The only tran sac tions were„,t e o'l,o and Birmingham (B), at 71. l s . 3d. dis. tbe e d. lines stood at the prices recently quoted is fel f o l. market, but there were no buyers at the ra te s o'l3 YORK, May 23. fer e • 0. 4 0 1 4 P . STOCK EXCHANCHL—The transactions r ig v, low :—Great Northern. Preference, 10,4'7; ° Goole Midland, 16%—Sheffield Rotherham, and 01' guaranteed 5 per cent.), 17. v OA , GLASGOW, MAY 23 .. A o wer e i f, e l, STOCK E XCHANGE.— The transactions trlbissio„oo low, : Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle, 34 _t. go er marnock, and Ayr, 413/ em 5 per c 110—Scottish Central, 13. til l 406`" BIRTHS. OF A BOIL 1 3 01 r On the 13th inst., at Albert-square, Clap srgr wife of B. Smyth, Esq., of Calcutta. ITY i" d On the 2 lst inst., at Ambridge - square , cp. wife of John Robert Mowbray, Esq. lg. - of On the 22d inst., at Hornsey, the Hitchcock, Esq. OF A DAUGHTER. ,1000 OR th e 16th Iflat., the kdy Of the BeV. '1 the 119 British Consular Chaplain, Calais. ref On the 22d inst , at Turnby-lawn, Lincolosu of Ma) :r Smart. 10 ° 411 A RRIED. a rt On the 2!st inst., at Walworth, Jatee' Drewett, Esq.. of the borough of Southwark, 11`. Sussex, to Sarah, second daughter of Mr. o° l ' 6- fre Trinity-terrace, Newington. n , IMP On the 21.'1 inst., at Frodeoley Salop, ti i,, e anOrt_fai• of St. Neot's, Huntingdonshire, to Henrietta folw daughter of Thomas Jennings, ' Esq , of the abbey Shrewsbury. ________.—L-------:"------- ,ioOf ,00P - D. ~-, n tors'* — A On the 21st inst., John Dea l on. Es •of '-'°- .. „, i'' Marshal of the Admiralty. g e ld 71• (1' 0 so me Pope,On tshtejielsNteil‘nsitn.g, Ted v. On the 2 to A n d . elaid a e, e wile of the e . Ir ' . ,mootP Ist inst ., at B h ark -cottage ' . 05 , General James Orde us Pip z . a a e o ,,fe t C Oo o mu .1 n i ite rht t 1 theyhh e 22d inst., _a . t Vauxhall, ~Pillian► W . "' L ' s ' " g lif° rese2t 2 ;2 2 ali d re i d nt 2 .,. at ' Streatham -lodge , -- 4 u r r . l ' OW oily P for Hutton-house, instt t o n " - a h t o u D s a e s .•' 4 2 1,00. 04 Orr the 20th inst., in South Molton-stree&F _,.uiftr Fauquier, Esq., fifth ton of the late 112011145 Fllwi of Hampton Court Palace, aged 5f , - , Is E te s n se , x ag . aged CB, John.Tanst 1- 14° '1 if ondon; Printed and Publishe d b y M - - mcD „ Rice , - - 0 ° ' i i *•! , :i. 112, :itratid, Printer, At The 81 0 Y . 5 0 ' .-itrarle.. in !I -A. • Pr.ciner n-' •tt!F '""eFOY, In , . , Milditeas i Saturdays May 25,-1850.• - ' . 4. _ r( °ther ?ac tlak e Rom, t 7 t9}6 Ig DI N Tr 7 3 , qu Liti P' T P a 'kr t Lle, PUr -4 Rt,et • .Ir,'t .. 0 - 4 4,1 14 Re li lt hi 0: ' 11,141._ , ) Niii 4l4 • T: 0 1.4' • %- t ,:.•nc," 4, ti kk Id l't ,t)t !,4 , .144 4 13\ 4 T Ett hit t Pl4 / , 1 41144 04; bc 'it 41 • , tr, 1 04 TI 4 4 ,L . 1 / 4 „ tt ni t'siu z .1 6 N tot : tht O lti . e tflrd t o °4 e v....14 m Be e Al 44 4t#1 ) . 1% ).• 14 -ti' I . 0 .. 0,.. , '. / co