The Sun. — London, England, 1851-06-13 00:00:00

PRISON DISCIPLINE. The following petition of the once notorious Char tist leader, Ernest Jones, has been printed with the votes : " The humble petition of Ernest Charles Jones, of the Middle Temple, barrister-at law, showeth— " That your petitioner, for a speech delivered by him in Jane, 1848, was sentenced, at the July sessions of the sums year, by the then Chief Justice, to be imprisoned for two years and one week, no other punishment being embraced in the sentence, but receiving while in the dock, in reply to a question asked, repeated assurances of considerate and lenient treatment. " Your petitioner was subsequently conveyed to Tot hill-fields Prison, Westminster, and there, during the entire period to whi c h h e was sen t ence d, in sepa rate confinement on the silent system, which was en forced with such rigour that he was severely repri manded for even reading the Bible to himself, though in a scarcely audible voice. Your petitioner was further compelled to pick oakum, which he did on his arrival, and which labour was remitted only in consideration of a weekly payment of money. He was made to wear the same dress and parti•coloured cap as culprit 3 guilty of heinous offences, and marched about the prison in the same files with common felons, subjected to convict discipline so rigoro us as to ma k e an invo l un t ar y smile, turning the head to the right or left, or folding the arms, a punishable offence; supplied with indigestible and unwholesome food, to the serious injury of his health; not allowed a fork, being obliged to use his fingers instead; and net furnished with sufficient under clothing for health and cleanliness. " During the greater part of the months of November and December, 1848 (which were remarkably severe), your petitioner was kept without fire, and with thhsamwoe clothing as in the height of summer, in a daycell, two of which were unglazed, having merely shut ters, and its doors (which closed imperfectly ) opening cluring formerili thorough a sm fitting so directly on the prison yard. In neither winter his detention was any addition, even in the most .n 81.1021/101% weather, made to the clothing he wore in the chief rigorous Your petitioner was farther forced, d period of his imprisonment, to sleep small draft,night cell, about Eft. wide by Bft, long, inteheaap between the window and the a d n o , and latter, as did alsb badly as to admit the rain, both in t a two large gratings of about onefoot duringsquare each cell where he was principally confined win ters, opening directly on the outer air. Such was the damp and fog i m n o t r h n e n i i e e ngnewinter that your pe titioner has or mornings brushed of d his clothing, thells during dewnlooffhiisg. Yourblanket, and suffered from t petitioner thence became afflicted with tic-dolereu x an d rheumatism, so severea s almost to depriv e hi m o f the use of his limbs; notwithstanding this, his cell was not changed while suffering thus, till shortly b e f ore hi s leav and, though afflicted during five winter monthsingthe Ps with the most aggravated attack of neuralgia, he was c ompelled to rise at a quarter past six in the morn ing, and even in snow or rata to walk through two yards, and wash and dress in the open air, under a recess in the wall. Your petitioner was by this treatment reduced to a state of health so precarious that he lost 161 b. in weight in seven weeks, as the infirmary-books will prove, and was unable to walk across his cell; the snr gate was compelled to order him into the infirmary, where he remained nineteen weeks, at two intervals. On leaving the infirmary the first time, no alteration being made in his treatment, the consequence was the surgeon was obliged to send him back, after the lapse of a fort night, in a more dangerous state than before. During part of this time, as he then asserted on his oath, and as be still believes, his life was in imminent danger ; hi s Wife therefore petitioned for leave that Mr. Cholmon delay, of No. 3, Nottingham-place, Reeent's-park, who has attended petitioner and his family for twelve years, might be allowed to see him, but was refused. Mr. Wekley, Member of your Hon. House, applied as such, and in his medical capacity, to see petitioner, but was also refused permission, by both the visiting justices and Sir George Grey. " Your petitioner, after leaving the infirmary a second time, was (with the exception of obtaining, after a while, a larger night- ce ll) once more subjected' to the same treatment as before, the effect of which was the ruin of his health, and the icfliction of nervous and rheumatic coa3plaints, from which he is still suffering severely. and from which he believes ho can never wholly recover. Your petitioner further begs to state that (with two exceptions) ho was not allowed to see any friend or relative more than four times in the year, and then only in the presence of a turnkey, and for twenty minutes each time; that after the first three months ha was not allowed to write a letter, even to his wife, more than once a quarter, the permission of writing oftener, after the period named, having 'been withdrawn without petitioner's having given any cause, or broken a single rule of the prison, but, on the con trary, having been repeatedly commended for his con duct; that not even during the fearful visitation of the cholera, though petitioner made a special request to be allowed to hear from home, was that request acceded to; that he was during the first nineteen months of his im prisonment not allowed the use of pen, ink, or paper (ircept for a few moments once a quarter for the afore said quarterly letter); that though petitioner's wife was so ill as to be long in danger of her life, permission was refused her to inform her husband, or to communicate with him, and that when petitioner was himself dan gerously ill, he was not able to acquaint his wife with his condition until the time for writing his quarterly letter had come round. " Such was the treatment to which your petitioner was subjected during two years and one week, the entire period for which ho was sentenced; and petitioner begs to remind your Hon. House that the sentence of the judge, as delivered in court, was simply this:—' The sentence of the Cuurt is, that you be imprisoned during two years on the first count, and one week on the second,' coupled with the assurances previously stated; and petitioner begs further to observe that the same treatment would naturally be tar more injurious to the health of a man in his station of life than to that of a man long inured to harchhipi and privations; whereas petitioner can prove that prisoners convicted on infinitely more serious charges were treated in a far more lenient manner. " Your petitioner now solicits the attention of your Hon. House to the treatment he experienced when en d_a eavouring to obtain some alleviation of hi s su ff er i ngs . 0 the 19th of March, 1849, petitioner, finding his health un a bl e t o b ear t h e treatment inflicted, and feeling convinced su c h t reatment was not intended b the Court asked per m i ss i on to wr _ike to thejudge who sentenced him, for th e purpose ofilllquirin g whether his treatment was in ac cor d ance w i th the sentenced passed; but the permission was refused. Petitioner was then threatened with severities additional • • es of an aggravated character, if he did not cease complaining even told ho would beof his sufferings; he was set to scrub l the floors of the app de ied for I con victs' cells. Petitioner then prison rules, but even this was :my° to see the toied him. Petitioner then desired to see his solicitor, or n write l to him, but to bo petition was refused. Petitioner then aske your Hon. House, which was prohibited by ve visiting justices, although he stated, as one reasonamo adduced for so doing, that he hai i several seriousncgha many to make against them (the visiffne justices) themselves Petitioner then applied to the board to know under whe a t clause, of what Act, ha was prevented writing, for the purpose named, to the judge who ;sentenced him, and from p e titi on i ng P ar li amen t. Th e b ear d re f use d even to an i rer his questions. Petitioner was further t o ld . that e should not be admitted to see the visiting JAusettices at their wee kly b oar d d a y, th oug h th e and the prison rules alike specify such to be the right of prisoners. Petitioner had never abused that right, and had previously to such refuel (during aperiod of ten months) applied only four times t o see the magistrates. The governor thus ar rogated the right to . rna.istrat himself of admitting a prisoner to see the w as further t o ld if, in s h or not, a t hi s p l easure. P et i t i oner tanll his quarterly b qua i r s terly interviews with his Wife, h e alluded a from hug the A c t e would immed iately gives no be forced such power. Petitioner wits desirous of acquainting Memberssoemxe_er. of your lion. House with the treatment Ise psob, ci an ta d ie wife to write to Mr. Wakleterl , letter, ei reo P te l , ei ?c.ed , and accordingly, in his quar t'Mr. G. Thom ik , at the quarterly peiod f . them to come and see i : e lir. F. O'Connor, requesting ' seeing visitors. The told, be was warned Lo r d esis e t, Prisoner since it would, he wa s to see those gentlemen; e „, or e ,, hi ghly injurious to him the way of the intervie w , ao .' d, asobstacle was thrown in the governor, with his own ha petitioner persisted, ' ' hand, added to petitioner 3 letter, warning his wife a paragraph those gentlemen, under peril o f being b aot to write to to see her husband at the periods pres cr ibederself forbidden Petitioner's wife, alarmed at the cornraut by law. tbo governor's injunction, and petitioner cation, obe h ad at yed difficulty in acquainting the gentlemen named with Or . eatese desiro for an interview. Petitioner failed in tt w 3t ith hi s attention to his case, owing to the impossibility offainin to his again conveying information astreatment, and that treatment now became more severe than ever. Peti tioner was told, if in his quarterly letters he alluded t o his treatment those letters would be suppressed. "The weekly payment of money being seven days in arrear, petitioner was ordered forthwith to resume • oakum-pieking, though his health rende red him une q ual bQ to the labour, and his eyesight was seriou sl y in j ured b y glare of th e w hit ewas h e d cell. Petitioner th en said that,sinee, on hi s oa th, ho believed his treat ment to be contrary to his sentence; since he was proh ibited from writinghe was prevented to. his j u d ge to as k i f suc h was the case; since prevented froze • . • petitioning p arliament, acquaint ing his solicitor, friends, or re latives, appealing to the 1 , magistrates, or even a lading to his tree, • tment in his usual letters; and • under the infliction, he, his health was rapidly sinking his part, refused to perform forced labour, but at the same time expressed his willing ness to pick oakum forthwith write to his judge or to forthwith, upon his being allowed to petition your Hon. House. Petitioner here begs to thatobserve, in not one instance during the entire period ofhis Otbe imprisonment did he k now ingly break ono single rul e prison ; and iu the case alluded to he believed his treatment to be con trary to his sentence , but even then resisted it only be cause the common right of every prisoner w him, and both the laws of the coun try and rules denied of the prison were set aside by the authorities. ' petitioner was the hereupon, on the 3d day of May, 184 9, order e d b y governor to be locked up in a re f rac t ory cell on bread and water, without books. On inquiring 'for how lung time?' (he governor replied, 'As long as I choose. a put you in at my pleasure, and I take you out nt m y pleasure.' Petitioner was then seized by the reek and ankles, and forced towards the door of the ward, where he was kept during three days in a refractory cell, by the governor's order, though the Act expressly - provides that no prisoner shall be locked in a refractory cell on bread and water, except by order of two or more of her Majesty's justices of the peace. Petitioner was in the surgeon's hands for several weeks after that, and on somewhat recovering (the infirmary books will show, by the nature of the medicines administered, that peti tioner's illness must have been severe) he was again sent for six days to a solitary cell on bread and water, wigi- THE SUN, out books, having even his Bible taken away. Petitioner was seriously ill of a bowel complaint at the time; the cholera was then raging at its height, the infirmary being then so full that patients were lying in the common cells, and ono died near the refractory cell in which petitioner was locked. Two political fellow prisoners, Sharp and Williams, received the same sentence from the board for the same cause, at the same time as petitioner; they were in good health when thus sentenced, but both died immediately after the completion of that sen tence, and the inquest commented on the severity of the treatment. "At the expiration of the six days petitioner was sentenced to be sent back to the refractory cell under the same treatment, but the payment of money and the dangerous state of his health prevented the sentence from being carried into effect. From that period, as the infirmary books will testify, petitioner never re covered his health, and he feels convinced that, had his imprisonment lasted a short time longer than the period of his sentence, he would never have quitted the prison with life. " Your petitioner therefore prays your Hon. House to grant some investigation of the treatment to which be was subjected, by which the authority of the judge was superseded, by which tho rules of the prison were violated, the laws of the country broken, and by which the health of the prisoner was ruined, and his life im perilled—an investigation that may prevent similar in juries from being inflicted on other prisoners in future. " And your petitioner, as in duty bound, will ever pray, &c. " ERNEST CHARLEB JONES." GERMANY. Hamburgh letters of the 9th give the following account of the ferocious, unprovoked, and murderous attack made by the Austrian soldiers on the peaceable citizens of Hamburgb : A conflict has taken place between the Austrian garrison of Altona and the inhabitants of St. Pauli and others who had resorted to that place for the purpose of amusement during the Whitsun holidays. It appears . that one of the Austrian soldiers behaved with great rudeness to a civilian of Altona, and when the latter ex postulated he drew his bayonet and attacked him on the spot. The altercation and the menaces of the Austrian caused a mob to assemble round the disputants. Words were followed by blows, the Austrian soldier was sup ported by his comrades, and the affray rose to such a height that it attracted the attention of the Austrian com mander of the mainguard of Altona. A detachment of soldiers, under the command of a subaltern, was ordered to disperse the populace, who, it ought to bo stated, was having their ' row' on the Hamburgh territory. On the advance of the troops the mob received them with a volley of stones, and compelled them to retreat. Another detachment of troops was immediately pushed forward, and the soldiers after fired in such a manner as to alarm and not to hurt the frantic mob. This in effectual fire served, however, still further to exaspsrate the people, and the military were at length compelled to fire in real earnest. On the word of command being given, a volley was poured into the dense masses of the people, which spread death and destruction among them, and the troops advancing in double quick time pro ceeded to clear the dancing booths ana other places of amusement at the point of the bayonet; driving men, women, and children before them, and compelling them to leap out of the windows, and, at the peril of their lives, to jump down from the balconies. During this affray, chairs, benches, fire-irons, and other articles of furniture were hurled at the troops, and by the means of these missiles they wounded several officers of the Austrian Commander's staff. The populace were, however, compelled to disperse, leaving eight of their number killed and 18 wounded behind them. A brigade of Austrian troops has been quartered in the suburb of St. Pauli, and field guns ready charged and primed are in the public square to prevent another outbreak in that locality. The exasperation of the in habitants of Hamburgh and Altona exceeds all bounds. The King of Hanover bas addressed the following letter to the Stadt-Director of the capital : "Oa the occurrence of my 80th birthday so many un doubted proofs of warm sympathy and attachment have been presented to me from the city, that I feel compelled to express to you how agreeable this manifestation of loyalty has been to my heart. Return to the faithful citizens of my residence my sincere thanks.—Yours, &c., " Hanover, June 7. " ERNEST AUGUSTUS." In the last sitting of the Deputies of Saxe Coburg the Ministerial proposition relative to sending a re presentative to the Diet at Frankfort was discussed. Two motions were laid before the Assembly, both agreeing to the measure, though from different mo tives. The motion of the Democratic majority was agreed to ; it stated that " The Assembly declares that, as a portion of the representation of the German people, it could not authorize the Government to send an Envoy to the German Diet; yet considering that the Government had been brought by concessions to the actual necessity of doing so, as appeared by the Ducal decree, it believed it was doing its duty by ab staining from making the Government responsible for the step it had taken." TRIAL of COUNT and COUNTESS DE BOCARME. The Court of Assizes of Mons re-assembled on Mon day, and proceeded to hear the evidence of M. Stas, professor of chemistry at the Ecole Militaire, living at Icelles. It was to the effect that after a number of ex periments he had ascertained beyond all doubt that deceased had been poisoned by nicotine, and that he has succeeded in extracting a not inconsiderable quantity of that deadly poison from his tongue, stomach, liver, and lungs. On the clothes of deceased, and on the floor of the dining-room of the chateau of liitre moat witness had also discovered traces of the eame poison. He had likewise found nicotine in the partially putrified remains of the grey cat and other animals which the Count was accused of having poisoned. He had tasted the poison extracted from the deceased, and it burned the tongue like a red-hot iron; he had also killed birds by an excessively small quantity of it. It was the conviction of witness that the poison bad been given to deceased when he was lying on the floor; he did not think it could have been poured into the glasses by mistake without its strong smell causing it to be observed. He was further of opinion that after taking nicotine it would be impos sible for any one to walk, but he could not say that they might not cry. A witness then deposed to having taken a consider able quantity of tobacco to the chateau, and a labourer, named Debliquy, stated that he had assisted the Count in making nicotine and other chemical operations. The Court then adjourned. The Countess de Bocarme, was so affected at the de tails of the chemical operations on the person of de ceased made by M. Stas, that she became indisposed, and the trial had to be suspended for some time. De Bocarmi paid great attention to the evidence. It will be observed that it tended to destroy his means of defence —viz., that the nicotine had been poured out and taken by mistake. In the sitting, on Tuesday Dr. Zoude, a physician of Tournay, deposed that he had examined the body of de ceased in 'the chateau of Bitremont on the 22d Novem• bor, and had been struck by the bruises and scratches on the face, and by the burnings, by what appeared to be sulphuric acid, about the mouth. He had afterwards made an examination of the tongue, stomach, and other parts of d:ceased's person, aad the result at which ho had arrived was that deceased had been poisoned, and that the poison had been forcibly administered when ho was in a horizontal position. He had also examined Count de Bocarm4, and had noticed scratches on his hand, and that marks of a bite were on one of his fingers. In answer to the advocate of the female prisoner, wit ness stated that it was possible, as deceased was a weak man, with only one leg, that the poison;had been forcibly administered by only one person; the person administer ing it had evidently placed one knee on him and the other on the ground, and that was why a bruise had been noticed on one of the Cou n t' s k nees . _ _ Dr. Mum:* of Tourney, medical attendant to de ceased, stated that he had also examined the body, and that his opinion was that death had been caused by poi son forcibly administered when deceased was lying on the ground. Witness had never observed that the Counte6s had shown much affection for her brother; on the contrary, she seemed very indifferent to him. De ceased's father had declared on his death-bed that ho had been poisoned, but that was because ho had taken an overdose of a very violent remedy prescribed by a French physician. Four witnesses were then called on behalf of the Countess; their evidence was to the effect that she had always shown affection to her brother, and that imme diately after being arrested, she, whilst weeping bit terly, had said that it was her husband who had knocked down deceased and forced the poison into his mouth. The Procureur du Roi then proceeded to present his requisitory. He began by remarking on the enormity of the crime, on the vile motive which caused it, on the base cowardice with which it was planned and executed. He mai ntained that it h a d l ong b een premeditated by both the accused. He denounced the Count as a vile swindler and cheat, as an infamous debcruche, as a b ru t a l cowar d, fri vole lie the zetzzirei,ntwoitahnoutreal mo nstrous hypocrite ; an d hi s w i fe as a vain : elaborateaffeeextai examination n a fo t i r o n a n o y f o t n h e e . facts of the case, cool and d l'b e, and argued th a t t h ey fully proved the e orate pe r petrationof a carefully planned murder by both the accused. The Procureur de Roi hadnot Court rose. concluded wh en the fu is tu a r n e trail© eve Nt i n?ft:l7;°tN . T h e ulurther 1 1 DISCOVERY OF c om : I -- . n o f ex coal i°ri in w i Oretwith u g u o r n the East Indies, and Japan. the coal veins which have been W a large supply may be depended discover importance in con he e n l acific, and with Ch'n str steam marine on the Pacific coast rapid, and the results will be far more thing that has happened since the discover exploration:n: upon, the demonstrate thaf of ,tpe increase of the wonderful sncdontinent will be y c yful than any fornia. Indeed, the proposition for a railroad r id it ' Can to the Pacific wiil derive more favour as the increases between Califon is and China than from steam St. Louis m an rnarine cause, because capitalists will perceive the probability Y °Ter turns from so vast an investment, when all the great ports southern Asia have been brought into direct contiguity with our own towns and cities. Oregon, too, is destined toi receive a rapid augmentation of population from the disco very of coal. Its healthful and delightful climate already proves attractive, and when the intercourse with its c •ast is increased 19y the growth of its comm erce , springing out of its coal and mineral resources, that region will e q ual pro bably the thri v i n g State of California, now the commercial Mecca r of the whole civilized world. It is to be ho p ed that natur e the has been b oun tif u l to Oregon in coal d e sits, and position in ' which it has been found rather favours the hope, which, when once fully realized, will have a vast effect upon the civilization which emigration and settlement of that great country, to .4,‘„Zuyorl, Herald. as yet has been too limitedly directed. — Earl and Countess G morning fro m N Grey returned to town yesterday madam-park, POLICE INTELLIGENCE. MARLBOROUGII-STREET. PILFERING AT THE GREAT EXHIBITION.—.Joseph Albert, a boy about ten years of age, was brought before Mr. Bingham, charged with having stolen a small pistol from the collection in the Great Exhibition. Mr. Short, of the firm of Grant and Co,, Albert-gate, Knightsbridge, said the prisoner came to his warehouse the previous evening and offered a small pistol of pe culiar workmanship for sale. Suspecting that the article had not been obtained honestly be questioned the pri soner, and his answers confirming the previous suspicion a constable was sent for and the prisoner was given into custody. The constable deposed to taking the prisoner into cus tody and to setting on foot such inquiries as led to the discovery that the pistol had been stolen from the Great Exhibition. John Gerin said he had the care of the armoury at the Exhibition. The pistol was the property of M. Le Page, one of thp exhibitors, and had been stolen from the place in which it was put. The mother of the boy, a charwoman, said she gave the prisoner and his sister a shilling each to visit the Great Exhibition yesterday. Mr. BINGHAM intended at first to commit the prisoner for trial, but eventually remanded him to give time to the police to inquire into his previous character. WESTMINSTER. Sir James Sutherland M'Kenzie, who has recently figured on three or four occasions at police-courts, was charged with being drunk and creating a disturbance. Mr. William Jackson, of 7, Lower-grove, Brompton, watchmaker, stated that at about eight o'clock on the previous evening the defendant came to his house, and knocked very violently at the private door. Complainant opened it, and inquired what he wanted, when he said he came for a glass belonging to him. Complainant asked what glass he alluded to, when he replied one of his that he had left there, and he must have it, or Is. 6d. for it. Complainant left him for a moment at the door, while he went to make an inquiry of his wife, and in the next moment defendant shouted at the top of his voice: —" You and Mrs. Jackson are both liars, rogues, and thieves." Defendant—That is perfectly true. Complainant resumed his account, and stated that de fendant continued between five and ten minutes shouting the same offensive epithets, which he must have repeated a hundred times. Complainant then left the door in search of a police.constable, when defendant jumped into his gig and followed him with one wheel occasionally upon the pavement, to the great danger of the public, along the road shouting, " There goes Jackson the thief—the rogue;" and pointing him out to persons passing, with his whip. Defendant—lt is not true; I had not a whip. Mr. BURRELL—You must not interrupt the pro ceedings. The defendant, who exhibited a great deal of restless ness, was again about to offer some interruptions, when Mr.BURRELL intimated that if such conduct were per severed in he must order him to leave the court until the complainant had finished his testimony. Complainant said that the defendant followed him until he met a police-constable, when he (complainant) gave him into custody. Hs (complainant) had worked for Mr. Justice Cresswell and many gentlemen of dis tinction for years, and had never had any imputation upon his character, and it was most hurtful to his feel ings to be followed through the streets and called a rogue and thief. Defendant—l call him now, with your permission, liar, rougue, and thief. Henry Notley, police-constable 165 B, said that he met the complainant and defendant surrounded by a great crowd of persons. One wheel of defendant's gig was upon the footway; he was quite drunk, and had a spirited horse. Defendant—lntoxicated with excitement; not drunk, in the vulgar acceptation of the word. The constable said that when he took hold of the de fendant's horse he jumped out of the gig and struck at the complainynt with a stick, and called him all manner of names. Mr. BURRELL asked Sir James what he had to say? Defendant—l candidly confess I called him the names; of a verity I would not retract a syllable. Mr. BURRELL—Such conduct is not allowed in the public streets, as it is calculated to provoke a breach of the peace. Defendant—l had been out all day to the races, and on my return wanted my bathing -glass to wash my eyes, and that took me to this person's hou se . Mr. BURRELL—What is the dispute about the glass? Complainant—Sir James lodged with me, during which time the glass was accidentally broken. He now owes me 61. 12s. for board and lodging, and was told to deduct the value of the glass, .which is very trifling, from his account. Defendant—lt is false. My solicitors could show that he had ingots of gold for everything I had. Complainant—l assure you, Sir, what I have stated is strictly true. Sir James was committed for twenty one days, and I fetched him home from Coldbath-fields Prison, and nursed and comforted him with every kindness. " Itisalie, e m exclaimed all" dt i ll defendant in a loud ton e . He never nursed Mr. BURRELL—I will not allow this ; such language cannot be permitted in a court of justice. Have you anything more to say ? Defendant—Not unless you wish it. Mr. BURRELL—I do not wish it; but, if you have any thing more to say in answer to the charge, I am ready to hear it. Defendant—Would you like it long or short? Mr. BURRELL— Short, if you please. Defendant—l could address you in Scotch, English, Latin, Greek, or a variety of languages, which I should be sorry to do to occupy your time in acquainting you of how I have been robbed by Jackson's wile and family. Sir James then pulled out a pocket• book, and occu pied two or three minutes in arranging papers and then road—" I was out six hours, and I told my driver at four in the afternoon he might go to the devil, as he was of no use. Driver has the whip." After a abort pause—" Dan Tucker did not start ; Bartholomew told me so." Mr. BURRELL—You admit having used this abusive language in the street, and that is quite sufficient for me to call upon you to find bail, yourself in 1001., and two sureties in Sol. each, to keep the peace for twelve months. Sir James being unprovlded with the necessary sure ties was, at the rising of the Court, sent to prison in the usual way. SEABORNE MAILS. [N signifies that the mails are sent front the General Poet-ofiler by the night—and M by the norning--dispateh.] When made up in From what When PLACES. GeneralPort-oBlce port ells due. London. patched. ------ America (by Brit. pkt.)N June 13 .. .. Liverpool.. Juno 15 America (by U.S. pkt.) Ni .. • . Liverpool .. America (by U.S. pkt.) M Juno 18 Southampt. Arrived Africa (West coast) N lath of the month Plymouth July 3 Alexandria* N:1911 & 30th of mo. Dover .. June 1$ Belgium • . Daily .. Dover .. Daily Brazil .. • . X ; 9th of the month Southampt. July 12 Buenos Ayree M:9th of the month Southampt. July 12 California(via Chagres)M : 2d & 17th of month !Southampt. June 20 Cape of Good Hope N;l4th of month (Plymouth.. July Constantinople' .... 1 , 77 th 17th 27th of mo Dover .. J une 20 Central America .. Ml2d & 17th of mon. Southampt. June 20 Channel Isles *Mon., Wed., & Fri. Southampt. Ta. Th.S A Chili . 3147th of the month Southampt. June 20 France .. M& N; Twice daily .. .. Dover • • Twicedaily Greece* Nl7th 17th27th of mo Dover •• J une 20 llanaburgh .. M N Tuesday & Friday Londo n .. Tues. Sat. Wednes. & Satur.lLonden .• M em.Tkur Holland Honduras N 17th of the meath l iouthampt. June 20 Ireland M . & N Twice daily IHolyhead ..ITwicedaily India (via Southamp.) Ml2Oth of the naonth'Southarapt. !Jane 23 India (via Marseilles) N7th& 24th ofmonth!Dover . • June 18 Mediterranean (via Southampton) .. M 20th of the month Southampt. June 23 Mediterranean (via I Marseilles) .. 1817th&24tk ofmonth'Dover June is Mexico .. •• lif:2d of the month.. ISonthampt. July Madeira .. • • .. M 9th of the mouth 'Southampt. July 12 N f 7th,l7th 19tk 27th Malta' .. } Dover ! Juno 18 & 30th Of month Naples* .. • • .. N sth 15th 25th ofmo Dover .. June 12 Papal States* .. Ni s tlllsth 25th of mo Dover .. !June 13 Peninsular.. Ml7th 17th 27th of me,' Southampt. 'J une 16 Peru .. 17th of the month 'Southampt. !June 20 Tuscany* N•sth 15th 25th ofmolDover •• June 12 West Indies Mil7th of the month South:Li:apt. 'June 20 West Indies (except Ilavanna & Nassau) M; 2d of the month .. !Soathampt. ;June 5 * The malls to th2se c ountries thus marked (*) are conveyed 14 , French packet via Marseilles. CALIFORNIA.—MaiIS to are now despatched and di and from Califor Me by every Ami via the United iiitata u packet. HORTICULTURAL OPERATIONS FOR THE WEEK. In the vegetable garden the hoe should be kept con stantly at work, so as to keep the surface in a friable state, which is of great advantage in dry seasons. In the ' flower garden the process of planting out must be dili gently pursued; climbing plants should be at once pro vided with proper stakes, and carefully tied up, or they will be liable to be injured by high winds ; and in like manner plants of trailing habits should be neatly pegged down. Attention to these little details is very apt to be neglected, to the great injury of the plants. In staking and tying dahlias and other plants of succulent habits and rapid growth, carp must be taken that the ligatures are not too tight, for the stem swells so rapidly that, if this precaution be neglected, it is frequently out through by the matting. THE GREENHOUSE. Many of the hard-wooded greenhouse plants may now be located out of doors, and especially if the roof of the greenhouse is occupied by vines. A cool north wall, not shaded by trees, would bo the best situation at present, as the plants might suffer if exposed suddenly to the full glare of the sun. All soft wooded plant, require frequent fumigation to preserve them from the attack of their troublesome and inveterate enemy, the green fly. THE FLOWER GARDEN.--Attend to the standard rose trees, especially those budded last year, and remove the buds and suckers which have sprung from the stock. Newly-budded trees require to have the young shoot secured to a stake fixed to the stem, or the first high wind will probably blow it out of its place, its location n Tti o h t itnc beingrauit an d ny a freeyetsecure enough to withstand the weath e r. TIIE KITCHEN GARDEN...-. TElke advantage of the from weatherto weedsso sow f th ur e t y h o er un c g ro c p ros s p of of tu o r n n i i o p n s : carrot, B :e. —Bell's Messenger. T. RE BUTTERFLY AND LIZARD.—The attention of a gentleman in llnsland, who was riding slowly up Waste Brow, near Springfield, Colton, on Thursday last, was at tractarded ab by a butterfly fl uttering round and roun d, a b ou t a yove a mossy stone w a ll. The little insect kept dropping nearer and nearer th e wall at every round, and at the same time circumscribing its circles, when, looking on the wall, hoes pied a lizard lying on the top. Continuing he at last observed the little flutterer descend into thhise gaze, of the lizard. Whether it was the breath or the eye of the ptile that had such a fascinating power over the insect,he Inlye4 tin naturaii4to ,to determille.-.. Wcatmweland G azett e! LONDON', EVENING, JUNE 13, 1851. Select Committee, which he had meant to move for adoption as an amendment were, "That in 1792, at the commencement of the war with France, the number of admirals was only 69; after 33 years' peace the present number of admirals is 150, exclusive of the retired admirals, and of these, 75 of the effective list are above 70 years of age. A certain proportion of the list of admirals must be composed of officers who have grown old in the service, who deserve well of their country, and who are entitled to higher rank and to higher pay on account of their merits, although they are no longer able to servo afloat; but when it is considered that in the last naval war with France (the greatest on record), not more than thirty-six admirals were employed at any one time, and that at the present moment the services of only fourteen are required, it would not seem unreasonable that the number of admirals now fixed, according to the scheme sanctioned in 1846, at 150, should be gradually reduced to a number not exceeding 100. Your Committee re commend that this gradual reduction should be effected by promoting only one captain to the rank of admiral on the death of three flag officers, according to the rule of promotion adopted in 1830 until the lists shall have been reduced to the maximum of 100; and thenceforth a csp tein may be promoted to fill each vacancy as it occurs on the lists." On behalf of the naval officers he (Mr. Hume) felt bound to say that ho considered that rule ex tremely herd which made promotion contingent only upon six years command of a ship in peace and four in war, seeing that many of them were within five or six months of that period of service when their command had expired. Sir F. BARING said the Hon. Gentleman had asked him how he could maintain an opinion based on the plan that had been suggested? His Hon. Friend, how ever, did not appear to object entirely to the plan in question. The Board of Ad m i ra lt y h a d recommended a plan, the principle of which was this:—ln the halt-pay of the active-list officers had qeen included who were not on active service. Now considering the large num ber of officers unemployed, the country justly com plained of the few that were actually on active service, though, at the same time, they figured on the half-pay active list. He thought, therefore, it was expedient to modify the list, so as to have only these on the active list who were really employed or capable of employ ment; removing those who had been placed on the ac tive list for good and gallant services, but who, from age or infirmities, were unable really to perform active ser vice. That was the plan proposed by Government. His Honourable Friend, however, objected to removing from the list those officers who the Admiralty by their proposed plan thought advisable should be removed. But he must remind the House that it would be impossible to follow out this or any other plan of reform without doing alleged injustice and violence to the feelings of certaiwparties. Bet what injustice, he asked, would be done by the proposed alte ration? He contended no injustice would be done what ever. On the contrary, the parties affected by the pro posed alteration would be placed in even a better posi tion. The same chances of service would exist, and their pay would be placed on a better footing. In the event of a war, the Crown reserved to itself the right of placing them on active service, with their own consent. The very hardship complained of was, that from the great number of captains it was impossible to find em ployment for them. His opinion was that we ought not to have a greater number of officers than the service of the country demanded. A proper reduction of the num ber of officers was advantageous to the service and to the country. If the House would permit him to follow out the new arrangements—which he admitted had been met with disapproval in some quarters—he firmly believed they would be found of great advantage to the service generally. He begged to move the vote of 6,50u1. Mr. HUME said one great complaint was that parties who were not in service during the war had been pro moted, while others who had been in the war were passed over. Sir F. BARING replied, but was not heard in the gallery, Mr. WILLIAMS did not approve of the result of Committees generally. Take, for instance, the Com mittee on salari es . Th ey had made certain recommen dations, but all those recommendations had been thrown overboard. He also objected to the practice of one First Lord of the Admiralty making recommendations, which his successor, perhaps, would neglect or refuse to carry out. This system, at least, ought to be modified. The House ought not to agree to any increase in the amount of the retired navy list until the House had sufficient security that the plan would be carried out. The Government scheme presented a favourable contrast to the scheme of 1846, which was adopted more for the benefit of individuals than fur the general interest of the navy. He wished the Right Hon. Gentleman to get an order in Council to compel every First Lord of the Ad miralty to carry out the proposed scheme of his prede cessors. However, he feared that was a request not likely to be granted. He thought the House ought to assent to the proposal of Government. Sir DE LACY EVANS understood that the object of Government was to promote eventual economy without impairing the efficiency of the service. These were two principles which he must always approve of; but he had been informed that the scheme in question would neither attain economy nor would add to the efficiency of the service, because coupled with conditions which involved the sacrifice of both of these important principles. Now with regard to efficiency, he had been informed that some of the later promotions of admirals had been indi viduals upwards of 70 years of age. In times of peace he could not say that an admiral 70 years of age was not an efficient officer, nor was he inefficient in time of war. But to come to the cases of individuals, he would refer to the case of Sir G. Westphal! (we understood), who had been actively employed during the war, and was now a most efficient officer, but he was to be set aside by the new plan as soon as he was made an admiral. This was insulting the feelings of an efficient officer without promoting economy, or promoting the efficiency of the service. There was also the case of Admiral Watts, who only desired to be employed in the service of his country, but who could hardly expect, if the plan was adopted, ever to succeed in his wishes. If the compulsory part of the clause was not altered, he cer tainly must vote against the Government proposition. Sir G. PECHELL did not think the proposition likely to effect much good, and he doubted whether the plan could be carried out for the sum stated. He did not think due consideration was paid to the commanders and subordinate officers, though it had been admitted on all sides that no class of officers were more meritorious. The expense of the plan would be, not 6,5001. as stated, but 15.180/. He agreed in what had been said that some cases of hardship would occur in compulsorily carrying out the scheme, and thought some consideration ought to be shown towards such officers as were able and wil ling to serve. Some of the officers on the retired list would be as capable as officers on the active list. Was he to understand that the Right Hon. Gentleman had proposed that officers on the retired list might be called ou again to serve? He should like very much to see a list of those whom the Right Hon. Baronet stated might have had a ship, and who consequently would have been eligible at the present moment for a flag. Within the last ten or twelve years the service had been governed by a clique who had made out art active list of their own.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. S. HERBERT was glad that the Right Hon. Ba ronet had undertaken to grapple with this question, though he confessed he was disappointed with the result. He thought the Right Hon. Gentleman might improve the plan if he gave it farther consideration. With re ference to the remark of the Hon. and Gallant Officer who last spoke, he might state that there was no more widely-spread popular delusion than that everything at the Admiralty was done by interest. He said so, not merely with reference to the board with which he him self had been connected, but having watched the promo tions that had taken place during the time of Lord Auckland, as well as those made by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, he believed there was no ground for the accusation that Parliamentary or any other influence had been used to put an incapable officer over the heads of those whose merits were acknowledged. The ques tion of retirement was brought under his notice when he was at the Admiralty ; but the proposal which he had made did not touch the question of admirals who had not served for a certain time, because that point was considered to have been settled by the naval and mili tary commission. The necessity of having younger men , for the flag had been universally admitted. In 1811 the average age of captains promoted to the flag was only 39. Sir G. Cockburn obtained his flag at 39, and so did Lord Nelson. The result of the retirement in 1846 had been so far satisfactory, that it had bettered the posi tion of officers by at least five years. He did not see any advantage in the proposed plan of putting those officers who had not served six years on a separate list. He was not sure if the Right Hon. Baronet had stated that these officers were not to be eligible for future service. Sir F. BARING had stated that he thought it advis able in respect of admirals and subordinate officers, that in case of war the Crown should have the power of placing them, with their consent, on the active list. Mr. S. HERBERT said that that would not give them the right to employment in the time of peace; and, therefore, their position would be worse than it now was. He was never inclined to stand out for the right of individuals against the public service; but he must say be did not see how younger admirals were to be ob tained by placing the names of 100 of them on one page and the names of 50 on another page. Indeed, the plah, so far from diminishing, would increase the list. In round numbers there ware 110 admirals on the active and 40 on the inactive list. It was proposed to buy off 10 from the active list by pensions of 1501. each, and to leave 100 on the list. The promotion was to be made from the captains' list by seniority, and the officer who had served six years was to be entitled to be put on the active list for any vacancy that might occur. But, sup pose there stood at the head of the captains' list five officers. If the four seniors had not served six years they would not be entitled to their flag. The fifth would go to the acti ve li st , an d h i s four seniors would go to the inactive, so that there wou ld b e i n suc h a case 100 on t h e active and 54 on th e i nact i ve li st . W here no c l ear an d decidedetvine: the ad vantage was to be gained to the public s rights of individ ua l s oug ht to b e respected. In the pre sent case he sa w n o adv a ntage separating beyond making more apparent in truth, the names names of those officers who could serve,which was, truth, the grievance of which they complained. He did not see the object t o ou l et i ot n ep o ul t ta b on e f. . c e h rs. would do some vio lence gained to th by e feelings of course these owffihit respect to the other to die off rather than remove was worthy of better to allow the officers With the immense consideration whether ranks, their h e was from n ot ci th u e i telissut.retihfaht greatest evil, not onl; to the he und erst oo d Ho had a strong conviction h the navy list was to o f ii t adi e viduala. The public service, but LI nourable and Gall difficulty was h ow to reduce it. The o ant Member opt ought for justice to the war officera; but it posits be forgotten that at the ought not to. end of the war a vast promotion took place, which had clogged the list cur since. Subsequent proraotious had beca for sub- sequent services. Promotion was not only a reward for good service, but it was granted in order to secure to the country the services of men capable of defend ing it in an emergency. The necessity for retire merit on the captains' list was indispensable, but in the inferior ranks of commanders and lieutenants there was no: the same object, for retirement. lie hoped the Admiralty would never concede their right of selection, for in case of a war it would be absolutely requisite to exercise some such right. It would be bad economy to establish retirement in those ranks in which it was not necessary. There were many captains who would be ex cluded by this system from their flag, who might other wise have obtained it. He thought it was absolutely ne cessary to fix the number of captains, and was inclined to believe that a smaller number was advisable. The more the list of captains was reduced—provided a sufficient number were secured—the better would it be for the service and for the officers themselves.—(Hear.) Look ing at the present number, he thought a lower ratio might be taken. At present there were 75 captains em ployed on full pay, and there were 7 in the civil service; together, 82. Now, he thought a list of 350 unnecessary from which to make the selection. Even if the number were treble the list would be ample. Ho should there fore suggest the fixing of the active list at a lower amount. He apprehended that whatever arrangement was now made it would be binding on succeeding boards. He should prefer seeing a regular steady annual promo tion instead of the present periodical, and, ho might say, gambling system. He did not know whether the present Admiralty considered that, as regarded officers retiring from tho active list, the promotions to the va cancies would be on the system of one in three. Sir F. BARING said that they would. Ur. S. HERBERT—At present the number of cap tains who had accepted the retirement (as the Hon. Member was understood) was 218, and there was a prospect of some twenty more also doing the same. He hoped, however, that the Right Hon. Baronet would place a limitation to the extent of that retirement, and that the list should be gradually allowed to die out. By the system of promotion at present in operation in the nary it was not one to every three that was appointed, as was supposed, but one to every two, as it was now in the army. He would show how he maintained that al legation. Assuming, then, that 27 captains had died off, there would be nine commanders promoted, and, in ad dition, there would be four lieutenants advanced to the rank of commanders. Thus there would be 13 promo tions, in all, upon the falling in of the 27 vacancies. Whatever was done now in the way of arranging the navy list should be done advisedly and with due consi deration, for it should be binding on all future Admi ralties. It was the more necessary, therefore, that ull their pl an s h ou ld b e well considered and well devised ; and he hoped the Right Hon. Gen tlensan would not object to reconsider part of it, so as to render any future change uncalled for and useless. He would take the liberty of making a few suggestions on the subject. He would propose to leave the present Admirals' list, supposing at 150, as a maximum. But hereafter he would never have the ac tive list exceed 100, and when the 150 came down to that number he would there have it stop. The 150 would in a very short time come down to the proposed standard of 100, without doing anything of injustice, or inflicting any unncessary pain upon the feelings of a body of officers in every way deserving of respect. Ho would wish to see the captain's list of 350 less than that number, for that was more than he thought was necessary. On re ferring to the number of captains, commanders, and lieu tenants at present employed, he found it amounted in all to 742. He would, therefore, propose for the captains' active list 250, for the commanders' 300, and for the lieutenants' 1,000; and that, he thought, would be suf ficient for all the requirements of the service. It would be perfectly easy to make any selection necessary from these three different ranks. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would take his suggestions in good part, and give them due consideration in carrying out his plan. Sir G. TYLER doubted much whether the plan pro posed would have the effect which it was intended, and which the Hon. Member for Montrose desired it should have. It had been said that when captains arrived at the top of their list they were too old, and therefore un fit for active service. This had been ascribed to the great promotions which had taken place in 1815 and subsequently, which had clogged the list. The proposi tion which was now made was, that all those unfit for employment should be removed to the half-pay list. Now he would ask them to examine in what that alleged unfitness might consist. It might proceed from various causes, and be well-founded or otherwise. Ho main tained, however, that the act of placing those who had not served on the captains' list, out of the chance of pro motion, was an act of injustice to the service. The at tainment of a rank on the captains' list was always a great object of ambition in the navy, and if they re moved that they would take away one great incentive to professional advancement. But there were ways and modes of reducing the cap tains' list without doing so much injustice to the service. An option might be given to captains of retiring if they wished it. Now, that might be a little more expensive, but it would clear the list to the extent required. During the period of the war the average time for remaining on the captains' list was seventeen or eighteen years; whereas an admiral made nowa days was generally thirty-six years a captain before he got his flag. He would strongly urge upon the Lords of the Admiralty the expediency of reconsidering the arrangements they were now making, with the view of rendering them more just and conclusive. There were services, which might be of as much benefit to the country as any other, in which a naval officer might be engaged—such, for instance, as the service of the Cus toms, or the civil service of the Admiralty ; yet the length of time a man might be so employed was never taken into calculation at all. He had been glad to hear from the Right Hon. Gentleman that in case of war those who had been placed on the retired list could be again put on the active list, if they wished it. On the whole, however, he thought the present plan would be better to be reconsidered, and it might then be made less unjust, and more satisfactory to a large class of de serving officers. Sir F. T. BARING said the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. S. Herbert) admitted that the Admiralty had undertaken to grapple with an evil of immense ex tent when it proposed dealing with the existing navy list. When he (Sir F. T. Baring) laid on the table a plan for the reduction of that list, he wus fully prepared for a general admission as to tho extent of the evils which existed—he knew ho should have a great many compliments as to the good intentions of the Admiralty, but at the same time was prepared for a general disin clination to do anything at all in the matter.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Ho was told by some Hon. Mem bers to reconsider the plan he proposed, yet they had suggested nothing practical in return. That plan had not been brought forward without due consideration. He had last year refused to introduce it until all its pro visions could be fully discussed and considered. He was not prepared to adopt the suggestions which had been made, and he could moreover inform the Committee that all the objections urged to the plan of the Admi ralty had been before heard and weighed. He could say that if they intended to do anything effective in that matter, it was impossible to do anything with out dealing with officers high in the service on the same principle as they dealt with the commanders and lieutenants.—(Hear.) He thought if any one had a right to complain of the carrying out of the details of the proposed plan it was the commanders and those low in rank; but they heard nothing from those, while the admirals and captains were pronounced to be a most ill used set of individuals. If they took up a principle they should act upon it equally. Let them reduce their navy list generally, then, to something commensurate with the wants of the service.—(llear, hear.) It was on that class of officers, the commanders, that a grievance really might be said to press, for they often asked for service and employment and could not get it; yet no one objected to placing them, after a certain number of years' service, on half-pay. When, however, they began to touch the higher classes of the officers in the service, they at once were told of the hardship they inflicted, and every sort of objection was made to the plan. He was not prepared to deal with the lower class of officers in a manner different from that on which he dealt with the higher; and that was his firm determination. They could not make a reduction in any class without causing sense inconvenience, loss, or annoyance to some individu als. Even in the civil service such could not be effected without some loss to some one. Now, that was not the case in what it was proposed to do with respect to retired admirals, who had, comparatively speaking, no injustice at all done to them. He did not wish to refer to individual cases on occasions like that; but as allu sions had been made to parties, he would briefly answer them. What were the real facts of the case of Admiral Watts? He was a most gallant officer; but though he had been 34 years a captain he had never served. Sir DE LACY EVANS—That was not the question. He complained that they had never employed him, yet afterwards stated he had not served. Sir F. T. BARING would ask did the Hon. and Gal lant Member think the Admiralty ought to have sent that Gallant Officer to a command in preference to other officers ? In that case he maintained that there was n o practical grievance. The public now had some light thrown upon these matters.—(Hear, hear.) The great extent of the navy list was an acknowledged evil, an d i f many H on , an d Gallant Officers were put u p on half-pay they had no real g rievance to complain,. of.wp—(goer, yet had ) There was another case, that of bit. G. had been 30 years on the captains' list, only served three years afloat. Sir DE LACY HVANS—He had been three years couthldat had served comman d e r of a 50-gun ship, h ea, afte r too, could under Sir G. Cockburn; y not get em ployment. Sir F. T. BARING would ask whether_ the lion. and Gallant Member meant to Bay that Si G. Cockburn . was unwilling to give a ship to Sir G. We r th s e tp G ha a l l l ian i t f applied r to for it? Ho te a y plo t y h m ou e g n h t t would have obtained em if he were anxious for it, and therefore he was not justified in stating that as a very great grievance. lie confess e d he did not wish to put forward personal cases in that discussion, but when they were quoted it hetcame necessary for him to allud e I somewhat to them. was very plain, however, that those officers who were really the most hardly dealt with were nut those who complained the most. The Right Honourable Gentleman opposite asked him a question with regard to the raanner in which he proposed to deal with the l ower elass of officers. Now the - Right Hon. jGentleman ought to have some experience on that sub ect. Yet he had not shown much. There were a large number of commanders, who, much advanced in years, had seen a good deal of service; and his (Sir F. T. Baring's) object was to get a certain number of those promoted, and then allow them to retire with the little additional pay of the higher rank, and with such a mark of the approbation of the Admi ralty of their good service as could not fail to be satis factory to them. In the discharge of his official func tions at the Admiralty he confessed ho had often found his feelings opposed to his sense of duty; for a necessity might.sornotimeo exist of appointing a younger man, who would be fitter for the service, over the head of sa older one who would be better entitled from seniority and longer service. There had been some difficulty is tilling the retired list of 200; but he propessd it should continue a: that number only until the captains' active list came down to the proposed limit, and no longer. Tha:, he thought, was only fair.—(Hear, hear.) Th e Right Hon. Gentleman opposite thought the number or, admirals was t oo l arge. N ow, the exact nu mber o f that class he had not defined, and was not so easi l y fixed. With regar d to t h e captains, however , and the_ commanders and lieutenants, the Right Hon. Gentlema: had named a certa i n limit. Th it limit, however, b e did not think sufficiently strong for the requirements oe . the service. The Right Hon. Gentleman had likewise said that the pr esent arrangement was to bo con' sidered final and con c l us i ve . N ow , he was by no sub' Sequent sure that it was so . H o thought that if any suer sequent Ad m i ra lty cons id ered the proposed lists than were required, it was at perfect liberty to r them, and it would be its duty to propose that ....e4 should be confined to the wants of the service.—(i le° , o hear.) Nothing, however, could be more injuriotis_:e the real interests of the navy, and the Efficiency 01 ,_ 1u b service, than to have an overgrown navy . list, would prevent all fair and legitimate promotion. diffi. Mr. MACGREGOR admitted that was a Ye r Y- 1,3 4 cult subject ; b u t at t h e same t i me i t s h ou ld be come or, that an admi ra l s ' li st was a thing to astonish th e w Th lJ e and a matt er w hi c h Ga ll e d for some c orrection. Right Hon. Gentleman bad done himself great credal!ilia attempting to r e d uce t h at e n ormous li st; but, in u u u te , : tion to that atte m pt, t h e pu bli c s h ou ld have some gas' rantee that that li s t wou ld never i ncrease more called There were altog e th er :1,504 officers on what wa s n l , o f the active list ; b u t h e conten d e d t h at a va st num he'l theca had no right to be considered members of such_ list. What was the course pursued in France they had only two admirals, ten vice-atL l : r ra i 3• and twenty rear-admirals; making in all thirty aeltu„' one d Ail the other officers of the same rank were PenT milar off, and were never again to be employed. A t t s o other arrangement was adopted in France with resp . ee- folian d, officers; and the same system was followed in tee Sweden, and the United States. The only counl ket e Franc.en?2. ors: cept England in which there was a large list of '- without Go,„i„ without any service was Russia. There were ,3 ""; 03 rals on the Russian list; but three-fourths of ther' ge , persons who h a d never gone to sea. readily t? knowledged, however, that the Right Hon. Gent"Lcroh the present Fir s t L or d o f t h e Ad m i ra lty had do "'" the to insure economy in our naval expenditure. 510 ,1 re- Right Hon. Gentleman had come into office he ea Qat duced that expenditure by not less than 2,750,0001. .P ht it appeared to him (Mr. Macgregor) that economy ni _e i ti still be carried to a much greater extent in our I . D 4 lir system, and more especially in our dockyards Dna shipbuilding, Mr. CORRY said that on the whole he should Pe re e f r e ci r the proposal of the Right Hon. Baronet the First of the Admiralty to that of the Hon. Member forsYnal. trose. Ho believed that the rule of requiring that ue son should have served six years as a captain bef o re , -on. could be made an admiral, would be productive o; a° side able advantage to the public, and woul d :b a t it greater efficiency in the service. It was ie o se of might operate with apparent severity in the - tesa officers who might have served a few months less t he draw in' six years; but it was absolutely necessary to " line somewhere, and cases of apparent harshness f the dividaals would always be inevitable if any tale °ise kind was adopted. He wished to know to what P' t he extent the Right Hon. Baronet proposed to reduce jos flag-officers, and how he meant to carry out his v upon that subject? the Sir F. BARING said that he proposed to reduc e ,. c e flag-oflicers to ninety-nine, and to place the other'font the retired list. But if the Committee should sot s ' o l that proposal, they would have to consider the p 15 13 "0 his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose, to vi : 00 , he confessed that he entertained considerable o bject' or Mr. S. HERBERT said that the Right Hon' Gen 'e' man had stat e d t h at h e wished to extend the same eeslet ciple to capt a i ns w hi ch he would adopt in the !Iron commanders and lieutenants; but the fact was that, the different nature of the two cases, it would be l t°9 sible rigidly to carry out the principle. After a few words from Colonel bIBTHORF , the Mr. HUME said that he had no wish to opPoseei Government for mere oosition sake. He believed tb 00l pp had at present entered on the right course, and h e complained that they did not strictly adhere to it' ns to observed that th e system of promotion by brevets wtlot, brought to a cl ose , an d he very much rejoice d a s boa for ho believed th at the system in q tauestion ha of productive of th e greatest abuses. The Committee 18'13 had reco mmen d e d that that system should c,Leri and yet, in th e y ear 1837, there had been 193 en".thsts promoted by br eve t i n the navy; in the year 1838 ;here had been 170 officers promoted; in th e y ea r 184 1 7 84 6 had been 293 officers promoted ; an d i n the year fol there had been 246 brevet promotions. 'DI pr to was, that the sy s t em o f promotion which ha d hith er tod been adopt e d i n t h e navy was only calculate er ensure the advantage of individuals at th e 6 93 pease of th e p u bli c . I t appeared that oat toot captains, in the y ear 1840 , not l ess than 313 had ',bet seen any service since they had been promoted to t 492 rank; and out of 807 commanders, not less than ge had not served since their promotion to the Pa st :, eot was aware that the present Board of Admiralty v""" h „,e0 to be blamed more than its predecessors for the i r„l t ee of the system. Under all boards aristocratic ina l t e 01 prevailed, and promotion was given in conseetle th Zieh powerful family connexion. Men were raised to ",/ posts in the navy while their services were in n° A - , 6 0 required by the country, and then they were place d his half-pay, and became a burden on the public. 113 , "0 opinion they ought to have a fixed number of offiet i c e the navy, as they had in the army; and then a n " - a would be put on the unlimited abuse of patrons Vii, that branch of the public service. The Board of i l ",; 0 0 ralty at present p ossesse d ar bi trary powers of protn°`h'er in the navy, suc h as ne i ther her Majesty nor any °ia authorities posse sse d i n t h e army. He should fa rl ' n , i 0 say that he c ou ld see no necessity for our maintaining if many as 100 admirals, and he beli eve d th a t it would son i e, be lair and reasonable to reduce their number to 5 0 . d the height of the war we h a d had only 30 admira l s . °- not more than 14 of them had been employed. rest Admiral GORDON sa id h o was aware of the g-eel difficulty of devising any means of dealing with te question which m i g ht not appear to operate sever al l, e cl against some i n di vi d ua l s. B ut it should be reinelnu ,e " f that it was the p aramount d uty of the Admiralty t°, , o curd the services o f efficient officers. He knew of batter means of affecting that object then the adoet l " e, of an extensive system of retirement in time of Per u , Without any wish to say anything that could be ° l-1 ,,;,‘ sive to individuals, he believed it naight with pet truth be stated that not many of our admirals at presel l o possessed that activity o f b o d y and of mind wh i c h han , eminently char ac t er i se d our admirals throughou t th i war. He should be glad to find the plan of the Ad ni bs ralty, as explained to them that evening by the Big r Honourable Baron e t, come i nto operation at an ear d, period than th e Ri g h t H on. Gentleman had proPol'it The plan would come into effect so gradually that would not a ff or d an early opportunity of bringing 4 forward youn g an d efficient officers. He though t that some mochtication might reasona bl y b e made , jtl the proposal, un d er wh i ch a service of six years vro e" e be required on t h e part of captains before they CO be promoted to the rank of admirals. In his opinion the time ought to be reduced, or a service of a coi n ' mender ought to some extent to be allowed to coun t in the matter. But, in any case, he thought that th e service required should be an active, and not a mere)/ nominal one. Sir DE LACY EVANS said he believed there iv° a general determination on the part of the Committee to aid the Admiralty in carrying out their vied upon that subject ; but there was also a general wil l ' that the compulsory provision should not be carried into effect. Sir G. PECHELL said he had been challenged i n suggest a plan, but he had suggested one in 18 48 ' He wished to call the attention of the First Lord 0 , the mode in which f re i g h t money was now disposal of. At present very few had the benefit of it. Teo advantage was c on fi ned to a few aristocratic la" mulles. In one instance a sum of 17,000/. had be an divided between the captains of_ . seven ships. He ha d ' year after year, pressed this Subject on the attends'' of the House. Mr. CO BDEN said it was genera l ly understood, when a Committee was app o i nted on the navy estimates, tha t - it the a o ni t i ec i t le w i e l ts to red uce expenditure, and not to increase admittedraendti thonoaft y that Commit tee should not be ac ted on. Ile ad hea r d no good reason wh the recour very great difficulty would be found in dealing with the claim s o f officers long in the servic e ' who had entered it expecting certain advantages from the wayisthte.many view then would find en in existence. The most ardent reformer it extremely difficult to deal with this dal to of immediate savi ng . He merely wish ed stipulate that the public should have all future adval l : tage to be d er i ved from a changeof system. I ;e ° minute w. of council o f 18 30 recommended that they s h o uld diminish the number of admirals, coupled with a recom mendation to di m i n i s h the number of cadets. If they neglected to act upon this they would find themselves 10 years hence in the same predicament as now. The Coln' mittee recommended that in fixing the number of cadets a margin should be left for the exercise of discre' tion, for the effect of an invariable rule would 10 , to make the number too great for the wants 01 the service in one year, and too small in another; One hundred was the number suggested by Lord Auckland, and this appeared to the Committee to be the maximum number which ought to be allowed in a time of peace. If there was not employment for them, the same rule should be applied to the officers of the navy which was applied to the civil service: and if they were not wanted, the public would not Pat them in any shape. Therefore the Admi ra l ty would an justice to the public and justice to the young men theta' selves who had entered the serviee injudiciously by re ducing the number much below that amount. Sir F. T. BARING said it Was quite true that 100 was stated to be sufficient. Mr. COI3DEN-100 was the maximum. Sir F. T. BARING said when he came into office, 11 4 , 8 found that Lord Auckland h a d fi xed the number at 10" in accordance with his opini on . His (Sir F. T. Barine a) experience during two yea rs l e d him to believe that the ; would not want that nu m b er; in fact, the Admiralty tin ' already diminished it. After persons had entered the service any stop to promotion must interfere with the ir expectations when they joined the service• and b e : therefore, concurred in the opinion that the restrain' should e. be exercised in preventin too many frown entering the service, which would g inflict hardship -13 no one. Sir W. JOLLIFFE protested against a rigid ad herence to an order in council, which would operate is juriously on a certain class of officers; and hoped 1, 1)1 Government would reconsider their determination in Oita respect. Sir F. T. BARING could not consent to Alter the plan of the Government. „ , FRIDAY IMP ERI AMEN T. HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 12. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Mr. lIALLIwELL took the oaths and his seat for the borough of Newry. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Lords' amendments to the South Wales Railway (No. 2) Bill were considered and agreed to. The Waterford and Limerick Railway Bill was read a third time and passed. The reports on the following private Bills were con sidered and agreed to:— Bath Improvement, Markets, Waterworks, and Bath Commons or Freemen's Estate. Cam Navigation (No. 2). European and American Printing Telegraph Company,&c. Newark-upon-Trent Improvement and Market. Trinity College (Dublin). Wrexham Improvement. The Christ's Hospital Estate Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed. PETITIONS. Mr. G. HAMILTON presented petitions from various places in Ireland, praying fur the extension of national education. • Mr. MO WATT presented a petition from Penrith in favour of international arbitration. CHANCERY REFORM. Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that to-morrow, be. fore the orders of the day, ho should move fur leave to introduce the Bill on the subj ect o f C hancery reform, which he gave notice of before the recess. AYLESBURY ELECTION. Sir F. THESIGER presented a petition from the pro prietors of the Bucks Chronicle, praying the House to give permission that the short-hand writer's notes of the Aylesbury election proceedings might be produced in the Queen's Bench, i n or d er to be used in an argu ment against a rule nisi fur a criminal information which had been obtained against them by Mr. Strutt, the solicitor. The alleged libel of which that gentleman complained was contained in a petition which was pre sented to the House, and afterwards published in the Bucks Chronicle. The prayer of the petition was agreed to. IRISH WORKHOUSES. Sir D. NORREYS wished to ask the Secretary for Ireland, whether the attention of the Poor-law Com missioners had been called to a resolution of the Clogheen board of guardians relative to the employment of the paupers in manufacturing articles for sale? Whether the Commissioners are determined to discountenance the conversion of workhouses into manufactories? And whe ther the Commissioners have sufficient power, under the existing law, to prevent such use of the workhouses? Sir W. SOMERVILLE said, the attention of the Poo-law Commissioners had been called to this subject, but they could not consent to put an end altogether to industrial employment in union workhouses, fur if they did they would bo acting contrary to the 14th article of the General Workhouse Revision Act; but the Commissioners would not permit any dealings with master manufacturers.--(Hear, hear.) ORDERS OF THE DAY. Lord JOHN RUSSELL gave notice that to-morrow he should move that, after the Ist of July, orders of the day should have precedence of notices of motion on Thursdays. RIOT IN KILKENNY. Mr. GEORGE HAMILTON wished to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether the attention of Govern ment has been directed to attempts recently made in Kilkenny to intimidate and hold up to odium certain individuals for having exercised their right to petition Parliament respecting the Papal aggres sion ; whether any inquiry has been made by direction of Government respecting the riots and outrages com mitted on the 26th day of Slay, against the persons who signed petitions to Parliament on that subject, and whether any steps have been take❑ to bring the offenders to trial? Sir W. SOMERVILLE said police reports had been received giving an account of the outrage alluded to by his lion. Friend. It appeared that, on the 26th of May, tie windows of several of the inhabitants of Kil kenny who had signed the petition were broken. One account stated that the mob consisted of as many as 400 perSOni, but others represented it to be composed of merely boys and girls. The outrage was premeditated, and ac , sudden and simultaneous was the attack made that great difficulty was found in identifying the leaders, but ts'o of them had been arrested, and held to bail to appear at the next sessions. THE RIVER BLACK WATER. Mr, ANSTEY rose to ask the First Lord of the Ad miralty, whether any and what measures have been taken or contemplated by Go vernment f or the purpose of caviling into effect the suggestions in Captain Frazer's report on the weirs and other illegal obstructions to the fishery and navigation of the River Blackwater. Sir F. BARING said that he could not say what measures had been taken; all persons, however, had per fect power to take any legal measures which they thought fit, and he thought it was better that parties shoald be left to their own judgment as to their remedy in inch cases. BOARD OF HEALTH. Mr. W. WILLIAMS wished to know what measures had been taken with regard to the appointment of a New Board of Health. Sir G. GREY could not give any information on the subject. WOODS AND FORESTS, In answer to Lord DUNCAN, Lord SEYMOUR said that ho would state on Mon , day when the Woods and Forests Bill would be pro• ceedod with. KAFIR WAR. The CILINCELLOR of the EXCEIEQUR said that ho wished t) state that the first vote taken to-morrow would be the vote on the Kafir v.-ar. CO NIMITTEE OF SUPPLY—THE IRISH EXILES. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Mr. C. ASISTEY rose to move by way of amendment, a resolution condemnatory of the conduct of Sir William Denison, Lie utenant -Governor of Van Diemen's Land, in the matter of the revocation of the tickets of leave lat ely held by Me=srs. *Manus, O'Doherty, and O'Donohue. He objected to the partial system which had lately been pursued with regard to the ticket-of-leave men. Instead of every regulation being interpreted to afford these gen tlemen everj possible leniency, all these regulations had been strained to confine them to their respective districts. It was quite clear, from Sir William Denison's own language es)a • his dispatches, - otispatches, that he was an unwil ling agent it Carrying out the clemency of his Sovereign, and had lit been allowed to follow his own wishes, th es e gentlemen would have been treated like the worst of convicts. Sir William Denison seemed to regret that the colonists treated these gentlemen, lot as offenders against the law, but as fit objects for s/e3pathy, because they were on that account the more rekey to bear testimony to their good beha viour and help to make out the allegation that they had not violated the terms upon which the tickets of leave were gran ed to these gentlemen. According to the opinion )f the best lawyers in the colony the ordi nances that Pere sought to be put in force against them had long since been abrogated, and they could travel to any and every pert of the colony without violating their parole, providing tley did not attempt to make their escape. Even the Plice magistrates before whom they were car ried entertaned that opinion, and it was ultimately ar ranged, as the law officers of the Crown appeared to be at variance with that opinion, that the offence sheild be overlooked, en condition that the allege( offenders would go and sin no more; and yet the lovernor, disregarding all former custom and precedent, lad thought fit to set that decision aside, and order thesegentlemen to be degraded for three or four months. Stch a stretch of authority was only justifiable in extreme !ases, and even then it was only resorted to where the teeision of the constituted tribunals of justice were manifestly at variance with law and justice; and then it w ts usual for the governor to remove the judges as well as reverse their decisions. The Go vernor had not dared to go that length, for the magistrates wh o made the compromise to which he re ferred wen two of the best and most useful and valued public officer s of the colony. But the reason which the Governor trged in justification of his conduct only made the matter worse. The Governor said he reversed the decision of the magistrates because he thought that the colonists b)trayed too much sympathy for the convicts themselves—(Hear, hear.) Mr. MAIL seconded the amendment. Sir GEGRGE GREY was unable to follow the Hon. and Learned Gentleman through the whole of his state ment, but the facts of this case were fully set out in a dispatch *itch had recently been received from the Go vernor, and they were contained in a very small compass. He confefeed ho could see nothing in these facts that should indaco the House to pass a vote of censure upon Sir William Denison for he had done nothing more than his luty under the circumstances, while it would have heel highly censurable in him had he abstained from doing that which the Honourable and Loakted Member complained of. It should be remetthered that in doing what he did he was dealirg with convicts who had been sent out from this count y after having been found guilty of a most serious s ent e no less, indeed, than high treason; and it wa s en that account essentially necessary that strict ditei The [lon. pline should be enforced.—(Hear, hear.) and Learned Gentleman seemed to think that those persons were not subject to the usual regulations of ticket•of-leave men; but as it really appeared that those gentlemen had acted in direct opposition to the usual regulations, he was sure the House would not think that the Hon. Member was justified in proposing a vote of censure on the Lieutenant-Governor for the course which he had pursued in regard to thorn in depriving them of their tickets of leave. Mr. HUME thought that the Hon. Member had, per haps, better withdraw his motion after the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State. Colonel DUNNE was of the same opinion. After a few words from Sir LUCIUS O'BRIEN in reference to the dismissal of Captain Laffan who had been in charg e of Mr. Smith O'Brien when he attempted to escape, The motion was negatived without a division. SUPPLY—NAVY ESTIMATES. The Muse then went into Committee on the navy estimates. Sir F. BARING, in proposing the first ♦ote, 718,6471., for the retired half-pay allowance of admirals, com manders, and lieutenants in the navy, said it included the supplemental estimate for retirement. Mr. MIME, who had a notice for going into Com mittee, but who was " cut out" apparently for want of duo watch fulness —complained that the recommenda tion of the Select Committee had not been attended to before then, and that the plan of reduction proposed by them had been so long delayed. If the regulations of the Admiralty itself had been carried out—those made by Lord Melville in 1820, those made in 1826, and those made in 1830, a great deal of the injustice that had been done would be obviated. The reoornmenqatioue of the I built M hi 0 wen invet be lc act i so la their expe The prier Ge❑t reefii He s a gal