The Sun. — London, England, 1851-02-11 00:00:00

LORD EBRINGTON AND THE POOR-LAW BOARD. (From the Plymouth Journal.) We have had the honour of receiving from Vis count Ebrington the following important communi cation, which his Lordship, on resigning the office of Parliamentary Secretary of the Poor-law Board, ad dressed to Lord John Russell : " Grosvenor-square, Jan. 26. "My Dear Lord,—After the communication you recently made to me respecting the decision of the Government with regard to the reduction of the salary of the Parliamentary Secretary of the Poor law Board, recommend by the Official Salaries Com mittee of last session, you will not be surprised at my resigning that orate into your hands ; but I am anxious that my motives for so doing should not be misunderstood, I hope you will excuse my trespassing shortly upon your valuable time by stating them. " I have not taken this step because of any differ ence of opinion with the Government; on the con trary I have supported, not from a sense of official duty merely, but from hearty and sincere conviction, every really important measure, and most of the un important ones also, that you have introduced since you came into office. I can say, without flattery, that I an proud to acknowledge as my political leader one who has been so long the distinguished champion of civil, religious, and commercial liberty— the man who in opposition carried the repeal of the Test Act and assisted in passing Catholic Emancipa tion—who in office introduced the Reform Bill, and was a leading member of the Government which passed the Poor-law Amendment and Tithe Commu tation Acts, and gave municipal reform to the corpo rations of Great Britain and Ireland. lam proud to have held even a subordinate place under the Minister who not only repealed the navigation-laws and com menced the work of legislation for the sanitary im provement of the people and for the establishment of a new social system in Ireland, but has also preserved the public tranquillity in this country, while all Europe was in a state of unexampled convulsion. " Nor is it from any indisposition to give my time and trouble to the public service that I retire. Not to mention my salaried place at the Poor -law Board, and to speak only of gratuitous offices, I may state that in my own county I am at this time one of the chairmen of quarter sessions, and have acted for years as a magistrate and visiting justice of the gaol and lunatic asylum, and that I sat as vice-chairman of a board of guardians till I accepted an office at the Poor-law Board incompatible with that honourable post. To say nothing of Parliamentary Committees, I have served on three successive Commissions of Sewers in the metropolis, tend am now habitually placed in the chair of the present one. I think, therefore, I need say no more to prove that up to this time, at any rate, I have shown no indisposition to render to the public what humble services were in my power without looking for fee or reward. " But as I consider the recommendations of the Committee impolitic with respect to the office I hold, as well as unfair towards myself, I feel that I cannot do otherwise than retire, now that it has been adopted by you and your Government. " I am not going to enter at all upon the policy of originally granting the Committee, or of placing:upon it but one member (yourself) who belonged to the present or late Administrations, and one other only who had ever been in office at all. I will only say that it does not appear, from the published proceed ings of the Committee, that much consideration was given to the salaries connected with the Poor-law department, whatever there may have been to any others ; for the examination with regard to there was very short, and the resolution concerning them was one of a long series, dealing with a very g r ea t num ber of offices, w hi c h , being all passed in the course of the same morning, must necessarily have been dis patched with little, if any, discussion. Moreover, from these examinations, as from most others, and from the passing of these resolutions as of many others, you, the only official member of the Com mittee, were kept away by your more important public duties. lam able, however, I think, to gather from the blue book that some of the members of the Committee believed most of ray time to have been devoted to the unsalaried duties of the Commission of Sewers, and those of the Poor-law Board to have been to some extent neglected by me. " It is certainly true that much of my time in the morning was frequently taken up by attendance at courts and committees of sewers. In 1849 I attended, I think, 69 of them, which frequently lasted from 10 in the morning till two or three in the afternoon ; but this was in addition to, not in substitution of, the the business of the Poor-law Board. It only often obliged me to continue at work till very late at night, at the House of Commons, disposing of poor-law papers, which my regular office hours, so infringed upon, had not allowed time for completing ; and I can confidently appeal to every one conversant with the working of the Poor-law department, whether I had not taken, from the commencement, my full share of the work and responsibilities of the office, not merely as regards the routine business, but alio as regards the introduction of amendments into the law itself, and more espo-cially into the internal system of its administration of the board and its oftl .( " This, h , )wever, was not effected without consider able exertion, nor, indeed, in 1849, without some in- jury to my health. But of this I never complained, and, indeed, at Lord Carlisle's urgent request, con sented reluctantly, end perhaps not very wisely, to serve again on the Commission of Sewers; and this year I di ,1 so, partly for the sake of your Government, whose credit I thought much involved in the success ful working of the Commission, and still more for the sake of the sanitary cause, which I have long had deeply at heart. But I must protest against this vo luntary errs labour of mine being turned against me, as it was by the Committee; and against the smooth working of the poor-law being assumed as a reason for undervaluing the importance of my office or depreciating the services of him who filled it. " You will remember that when Parliament placed the Poor-law department upon its present footing, you offered me the secretaryship as a `laborious and responsible' office. Of the important influence for goad or for evil upon the mass of the community, which must be exercised by.any system of legal relief accordiug to the manner in which it is administered, and of the delicate and responsible nature of the trust confided to those who have to superintend that ad ministration, I became daily more and more sensible ; and that the Poor-law office, during my connexion with it under two successive presidents, has not been, as it was up to that time, either unpopular in the country, or a source of annoyance to the Government in Parliament, is certainly a matter of some surprise to m---especially as our administration has been de cidedly more consonant with sound principles than waa that of our immediate predecessors. But though, of course the credit of this unexpectedly successful working, on the part of the Poor-law Board, accrues mainly to the two presidents, I think that in fairness some share of it ought to be attributed to my col league (Mr. Nicholls) and myself, who not only have throughout conducted the business of the department under them, but who for some months after Buller's lamented death were left exclusively in charge o f it. " I do not profess to be altogether indifferent to 6001. a year more or less, yet I can :truly assure you that, if that were the only question, you would never have received this letter ; but it is to be remembered that in public estimation, especially in the case of a new office, the amount of salary represents not merely emolument, but authority, position, and influence. "Now, my late lamented chief, Mr. Buller, told me, when we first came together into the Poor-law Board, that he had undertaken the office on the ex press understanding that it was to be placed on the towing of a regular political department of the Go vernment, and he often expressed to me his determi nation that neither the board nor any of its officers should be placed in a position of inferiority in com parison with other Government offices of that descrip tion. I leave you to judge how far that understanding has been fulfilled. • But further, within the poor-Jaw department my present positim is one of complete equality with my valu e . ing ...,v d eh fr a t v e e nd and colleague, Mr. Nicholls. On that foot together. a worked most harmoniously and comfortably received from one of the original commissioners be after he had the sery Governm en t 2,0001. a year . This, established the served thirteen year s , an d h a d success f u lly Government reduced Pr-law system in Ireland, your sum at which b o th his to 1,500/. ; and th a t was the of the Poor-law Board salary and mine, as secretaries. since by this present Iro we a r o e f fixed about three years "For an assistant Commons. secretary, reputation as a legal authority Mr' Lumley, whose is established, but whose seriiet poor-law questions appeeciated by those who have b ean onlY be fully him—poor Mr. Buller most properly in office with the Treasury an annual increase of y sai obtained from to 1,0001., with a gradual immediate rise up from 700/. Most of the poor - law inspectors , that is,l p ii whoto 1,200/. served under the name o f assistant had commissioners, many of them having rendered long, and all useful service to the public, receive , in pay and allowances (exclusive of ' their travelling expenses), rather mor than 1,0001. a year. How is it to be expected, th en, I should acquiesce in the propriety of the recom. niendation of the Committe, with regard to the salary of the asabitant secretary's and inspectors' s • uperior cffi,;er—th s ecretary It e sec. of the Poor-law Board ? only remains for me now, with many apologies far this long intrusion upon your valuable time, to renew my protest against the unfsirness of making the amount of Unpaid have labour I performed f the 1 or e public, at the d es i re of the Government and at consi derable sacrifice to myself, a reason for reducing the salary of my paid Office . , =policy o f to repeat my decided opinion of the 1 those of other public fixing that salary below servant departments of the aasillaila/ " 211 i i 2 r ' tl29r ries of the Bard of . Governm e nt (such as the aecreta aro! and of Trade,*c.), belvw . THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 11, 1851. that of my colleague and equal, Mr. Nicholls, and what is stronger yet, below those of my subordinates in my own office. " I have the honour to remain, my dear Lord, yours sincerely. " EBRINGTON." GERMANY. The Prussian Constitutionell Zeitung protests that the European counter-revolution proceeds steadily on its onward course, and that rumours and signs are frequent whieh indicate that another coalition cam paign is intended to come off in spring. "The very men," says the Constitutionell Zeitung," who strove to represent themselves as the 'peace party,' and who talked of the enormous coat and sacrifice of war, at a time when we protested against any concessions on the part of Prussia, because we knew that those very con cessions were pregnant with war and other manifold mi eries—those very men have now a liking, in the interest of their reactionary plans, to fall foul of Switzerland and Sardinia, and perhaps to restore Henry V." The Berlin official Gazette and the Ministerial Deutsch Reform publish a lengthy statement of the miseries to which the inhabitants of the Hessian pro vince of Fulda are exposed in consequence of the occupation of those districts by Prussian and Aus trian troops: These papers express a hope that the sufferings of the poor Hessians will excite the charity of the less unfortunate inhabitants of Prussia. The Liberal press abounds, of course, in caustic remarks on this tardy compassion on the part of the organs of the Government. 1 The Neue Preussische Zeitung states, from Vienna, that the last financial account, comprising the period from the Ist November, 1849, to the end of July, 1850, shows a deficit of 55,533,619 florins. From another comprehensive account of the Austrian Pub lic Debt it appears that at the commencement of 1848 the debt amounted to 1,013,000,000 florins, or 101,300,000/. This debt has since been increased by 554,000,000 florins, of which 519,000,000 are unse cured. The total of the debt amounts, consequently, to 1,532,000,000 florins, or 154,200,000/. THE DIABOLICAL ATTEMPT AT ASSASSINATION AT WYE. We subjoin a more detailed statement of this dreadful occurrence:—lt appears that every Saturday Mr. Hills, the bailiff, is in the habit of attending the market at Can terbury. After returning on Saturday evening last, be, as usual, went to Captain Davis's house for his books, and was returning through a lane, when he was shot at from an ash plantation, and slightly wounded in the shoulder. His escape was a most miraculous one, his gaberdine, coat, and shirt being shot through. No information of the occurrence was given to the county constabulary until Monday morning, when the indefatigable superintendent (Mr. Gifford) immediately rode over to Wye and saw Captain Davis, and after cer tain inquiries, he, in the course of two hours, appre hended three young men on suspicion, named Hallard, Price, and Vigeon._ He conveyed them to Ashford, and the same day they were examined and remanded, at the officer's request, until the following day (Tuesday), when Price and Hallard proved a satisfactory alibi, and were discharged. Vigeon was then singly charged by the superintendent with the crime, and Price was called as witness. He deposed that on Sa turday last he accompanied Vigeon, shooting in the fields, and as they were returning home through Canter bury-lane, there was only one charge of powder left, and Vigeon wished him not to shoot it away, as he wanted it particularly for a purpose of his own. Witness fired off the charge, and told prisoner he could buy some more as they got nearer towards home. They went a few yards on, and sent a boy for an ounce of powder ; it was put into a lacifer-box ; the powder filled the box. Before they bought the powder, and just after he (witness) fired the last charge, Vigeon asked for a couple of caps; and on giving them to him, witness inquired what he wanted them for? Prisoner at the same time took a round piece of lead out of his pocket, and showed it to him (witness), who pressed to know what he purposed doing with it. He refused to tell him, but said he would hear of it quite soon enough. Asked him what be was going to shoot—if it was a four or two-legged thing—and if he (witness) should go with him. He replied, " I laid up the other Saturday for him, but missed him ; and if I get into trouble myself; I dont want to bring any body else into it." They then bought the powder. and Vigeon took it, along with the two percussion caps and eight other caps. On the following morning (Sunday) they had agreed to go out together shooting again. Witness went for prisoner as promised, but he did not go out. Other evidence at great length was given, of a circum stantial nature, closely connecting the prisoner with the offence. The evidence of Mr. Gifford, the superintendent of the county police, went to show that, when he tookVigeon, he asked him," Where were you on Saturday night?" He said," I was at home on Saturday night at seven o'clock. I was out with young Price until between four and five, and then returned." Witness searched the rooms occupied by the prisoner, and found in the dwelling-room the gun pro duced. A piece of paper was stuffed into the muzzle, and half the orifice was filled with dirt, as if it had been plunged into the ground. There was dirt also upon the lock. The cap was on the nipple. The gun had been fired. There was also a red mark across the lock, as if it had been rubbed against a red brick wall. At the ter mination of the plantation there is a brick wall with red brick coping, over which a person must pass before he could get into Cold Harbour-lane. Other circumstantial evidence of a conclusive nature was then gone into, and on Friday the prisoner was Nulty committed for trial at the March assizes at Maid stone. The inhabitants of this part of the county are per fcctly h , .rxitiod at such a desperate attempt at cold. blooded murder.—Kentish Gazette. SEABORNE MAILS. [N signifies that the mails are sent from the General Poet-office by the night—and M by the morning—dispatch.] When made up in I From what PLACES. General Post-office port die- ""°" due. London. patched. America (by Brit. pkt.)N February 14.. ..'Liverpool • • Feb. 26 America (by U.S. pkt.) N February 21 .. Liverpool .. Feb. 17 America (by US. pkt.) 31 March 8 .. Southampt. Feb. 22 Attica (West coast).. N 14th of the month Plymouth March 3: Alexandria. ....... N 19th & 30th of mo. Dover .. Feb. 18 Belgium • . Daily •I Dover .. Daily Brazil .. • .. 31 9th of the month Southampt. Feb. 24 Buenos Ayres .. 31 9th of the month iSouthampt. Feb. 24 California(via Chagres) 31 17th of month !Southampt. Feb. 20 Cape of Good Hope Nll4th of month Plymouth.. March 3 Constantinople* .. • • N 7th 17th 27th of mo Dover .. Feb. 20 Central America .. 31 2d & 17th of mon. ,Southampt. Feb 20 Channel Liles • • .. N Mon., Wed., k Fri. Southampt. Tu. Th. Sa Chili .. • • .31 17th of the month 'Southampt. Feb. 20 France .. 31 & N Twice daily .. Dover Twicedally Greece* •• .. • • N 7th 17th 27th ofmo ,Dover • • Feb. 20 Hamburgh .• N Tuesday & Friday 'London .. Tues. Sat. Holland .. • • .. 31 Wednes. & Satur.'London 3loinThur Honduras .. N 17th of the month Southampt. Feb. 20 Ireland .. ••31 & N Twice daily .. Holyhead .. Twicedally India (via Southamp.) 31 20th of the month Southampt. Feb. 28 India (via Marseilles) N 7th& 24th ofmouth Dover .. Feb. 23 Mediterranean (via Southampton) •• M 20th of the month i Southampt. Feb. 28 Mediterranean (via ! Marseilles) 7th&2lth ofmonth i Dover .. Feb. 23 Mexico .. • . .. 31 2d of the month ..ISoutharnpt. (March 5 Madeira • • .. 319th of the month Southampt.lMarch 12 Malta* 702,17 th 19th 27th' 8z 30th 4 month Dover Feb. 20 Nook,* •• sth 15th 25th ofm6Dover .. Feb. 12 Papal States* N sth 15th 25th of mo I Dover .. Fob. 12 tenins Mar • • .. 317th 17th 27th of mo! Southampt. Feb. 15 Peru .. .. • • 31,17 th of the month !Southampt. Feb. 20 Tuscany* .. N!sth 15th 25th ofino l Dover • • Feb. 12 West Indies .. 31 17th of the month Southampt. Feb. 20 Weet Indies (except Havanna & Nassau) 31 2d of the month .. Southampt. March 9 ' 1 The mails to those countries thus marked (*) are conveyed by French packet via Marseilles. RUMOURED DRATEI FROM DR. COFFIN'S PILLS. --- A young woman named Eliza Gould, aged twenty-one, daughter of William Gould, tailor, Button-lane, died on Wednesday evening suddenly, after taking some pills sup plied to her by Mr. William Fox, of Barberpool, agent to Dr. Coffin. The case was investigated yesterday (Friday) evening by T. Badger, Esq., coroner. It then transpired that on Wednesday afternoon, at three o'clock, the young woman took two of Mr. Fox's pills for pain i n th e stomach, having once before been relieved by then'. She became so much wore that Mr. James Gregory, surgeon, Porter-street, was called in, and found her with a sinking pulse and symptoms of prostration. She died soon after seven o'clock. Several times she declared that the pills had poisoned her, and when Mr. Fox (who paid her a visit) proposed something to relieve her pain, which he said was inflammation of the bowels, she positively refused to take any more of his medicine. Mr. Gregory met Mr. Fox at Gould's house, when he (Mr. Fox) told him that the pills contained nothing irritant or nar cotic—that in fact they would do neither good nor harm. He ebjected to Mr. Gregory's treatment, and said the de ceased ought to be well purged. At the inquest Mr. Fox said the pills were composed of cayenne pepper, lobrelia in- Rata (Indian tobacco), rhubarb, aloes, copaiba, and bullock's gall. In answer to the coroner Mr.' Gregory said he could not positively state the cause of death, and that he had not said that the pills had killed the patient. The inquest stands adjourned to Tuesday for a post mortem examination.— Sheffield Times. 1 RECTORY OF ST. PIERRE-DU-BOIB.—We have pleasure in stating that her Majesty, on the recommenda tion of Sir George Grey, has been pleased to appoint the Rev. Carey Brock to the rectory of St. Pierre-du-Bois, vacant by the death of hi father, the late Rev. Thomas Brock, the Right liqn. Baronet, in his recommendation to the Crown, expressing his belief that he would be thereby consulting the spiritual interests of the parish, and acting in conformity with the wish of the parishioners, On the ap pointment of the rev erend gentlemen b ecom i ng k nown,the inhabitantsi of St. Pierre testified their joy by ordering the church bells to be rung.— Guernsey Comet. THE SEAMEN'S STRIKE IN THE NORTH.—OR Thursday a meeting b r 3 e . so th lif e tio m n e s r w can er_e Id at South Shields, a t w hi c h adoptedupwards n o f whichSeamen's sailorsth e wasnew h articles weerepre p se r d to sea under the new articles, and th a t no s hip s s h o uld go to sea whose mat _ w a s ships; coasting or f ore i gn , s hould proceed This latter resolution, it , went to the shippi ng • o ffi ce . stated, meant th a t a ll s hi ps were to rema i n a t anchor until the questi on a t i ssue i s determined. ROYAL GENERAL ANNUITY SOCIETY.—The anni versary festival of this institution, established in 1827 for the relief of decayed merchants, &c., their widows and daughters, took place on Wednesday, at the London Tavern. Mr. Booker,l M.P.. presided, supported by Lord Saye, the Hon W. Finni", the Hun. H. Gwynne, M.P., Mr. Blakemore, M P., Mr. G. Hudson, M.P., the Mayors of Rochester and Abingdon. Mr. C. Chamberlayne the Rev. J. Li s t er , t h e Rev. R. J. Jones the Rev. Mr. Lusignan, &c. After the usual ll toas, which were warmly responded to, several excelle oya nt spec he , were made in behalf of this useful charity, which we are pleased to learn is steadily progressing in public estimation. During the evening a subscription, amounting to upwards of 1,2001, was collected. Amongst them were those of the Dul• - e of Baccleuch, 501. (to the building fund); the Earl of D i s b y , 951. (alto to the building fund); Lord Leigblol. ; M r . Bird, 501.; Mr. Lambert, 401.; Mr. Booker, p,f,, 25/. ; • G• P • 251. ; Ur. G. F. Young, _ • IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 10. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. Lord STANLEY presented several petitions against Papal aggression. The Bishop of NORWICH presented several petitions to the same effect. The Earl of ENNISKILLEN presented:several peti tions from various places in Ireland to the same effect. BANKRUPTCY COMMISSIONERS. Lord BROUGHAM explained that in his statement on Friday he had no intention whatever of reflecting on the Bankruptcy Commissioners. More efficient officers had never adorned the judicial bench. He considered that nothing could be more satisfactory than the manner in which Vice-Chancellor Knight Bruce had performed his duties. For upwards of three months the greater part of th'e equity jurisdiction of this court had, in consequence of toe death of Sir Lan celot Shad well and the illness of Vice-Chancellor Wigrana, fallen upon Vice-Chancellor Knight Brace, and he had most industriously and most admirably per formed those duties. The LORD CHANCELLOR bore his testimony to the great merits of Vice-Chancellor Knight Bruce. THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose to move that a humble address be presented to her Majesty stating the merits of the services of the Earl of Shaftesbury. That Noble Earl had served as Chairman of the Committees of that House for 36 years, and never had the arduous duties which devolved upon that office been discharged more diligently or more efficiently. During that time the duty which devolved upon the Chairman of Committees on private Bills had greatly increased, and the Noble Earl had discharged those duties on every occasion most efficiently—(Hear, hear)—and although no person entertained stronger political opinions than did the Noble Earl, yet he had never suffered those po litical opinions to interfere with the efficient and the just discharge of the duties of his office.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Marquis concluded by formally proposing the Address. Lord STANLEY seconded the motion, and from his short experience in that House he begged to state that he concurred in all that had fallen from the Noble Mar quis in favour of the great ability, energy, and imparti ally of the Earl of Shaftesbury, and he believed that the Noble Lord who had been elected to the office would be found a not unworthy successor to the Noble Earl. Lord BROUGHAM bore testimony to the great dili gence and impartiality of the Earl of Shaftesbury in the very important duties which had devolved upon him. He had known the Earl of Shaftesbury for a third of a cen tury, and it was impossible for any panegyric to be pronounced upon him which could be too high. The address was then agreed to nem. con. THE CASE OF CHARLES PENNELL MEASOR. The Earl of ST. GERMANS then rose, pursuant to notice, to present a petition from Charles Pennell Measor, lately a clerk in the money-order department of the General Post. office, praying for inquiry as to his removal from that office, and to move for the appoint ment of a Select Committee to inquire into the allega tions contained in the said petition. The Noble Earl then proceeded to state that the clerks in the money order office had presented a memorial, the object of which (as we understood) was to obtain some additional advantages; but the language of it, although strong, was not disrespectful; and it was supposed t hat, in conse quence of the presentation of the memorial, certain al terations had taken place in the manner in which pro motions had taken place in that office, and that, instead of the senior clerk being appointed to succeed an officer who had died, a gentleman had been promoted to that office from the Edinburgh Post-office, because the peti tioner and his fellow-clerks had refused to withdraw that memorial. In signing that petition Mr. Measor was not conscious that he had done any wrong, and he had explained as much in a letter to the Noble Marquis. All that the signers of the memorial bad done was to ask for an increase of salary. He felt that it was in consequence of the adoption of his advice that this poor man had been ruined; he had known Mr. Measor for some time, and (as we understood) had procured him his place in the Post-office, and had advised Mr. Memos to adopt the course which he had adopted. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE would have had no objection to a motion for th e a pp o i ntment of a Comm i ttee toinvestigate the whole of the working of the money order department of the Post-office, but he must object,to the appointment of a Committee to investigate a parti cular case. He had never entertained any feeling against the clerks for signing and presenting the memorial, but his complaint was, that instead of contenting himself with presenting the memorial, he printed it and pub lished it, and endeavoured to bring a pressure from with out to bear on his superior officers. Now, if such a principle were once admitted it would be impossible that the business of any public department could be carried on.—(Hear, hear.) But this statement was, moreover, a great misrepresentation. Gross misstate ments had been made both to this and the other House of Parliament on the subject. It had been stated that Mr. Hill had declared that no clerk' should be absent from his duties more than three days. That statement was absolutely incorrect. The case was, that a clerk had been absent for a great length of time from illue and that Mr. Hill, in order to prevent his dismissal, .had suggested that he might be able to have a substitute. This clerk had been absent 37 days, while many hard working clerks had not been absent for one day. In consequence of this Mr. Hill had devised such a system as should afford to every clerk one month's leave of absence in the year, and that all ab sences above that amount should be paid fur by the absent clerks finding substitutes. If a clerk were'ill, he might agree with his fellow-clerks to do his work, and there was one who had been absent for eleven months in two years under that system. The petitioner had been removed from his office for insubordination, misrepresentations, and attacks upon his superior offi cers. He had himself often dismissed persons for com municating matters touching the business of the office to the public, and of this Mr. Measor had been well aware. If the Noble Earl would extend his motion to a general inquiry into the manner in which the business of the Money Order-office was conducted he would not object to the motion. By the adoption of Mr. Hill's plan in the Money Order office there had been the saving of the salary of 170 clerks. There never had been in any department of the state a more economical measure adopted than the appointment of Mr. Hill. There was no slur upon the character of the petitioner as an efficient person. He had been guilty of a great error, and if the Noble Earl would extend the inquiry he would have no objection to go into it; but he could not consent to the present motion, as by so doing, he would be encouraging insubordination. The Earl ST. GERMANS thought the case was one entitled to the consideration of the Noble Marquis. He could not think that the publication of the petition of his memorial to the Noble Marquis would be considered a breach of official confidence. The petitioner had, by his advice, acknowledged to the Noble Marquis that he was the author of the memorial, and in his (the Earl of St. Germans) opinion, the Noble Marquis had punished the petitioner too severely. The motion was then withdrawn, and their Lordships adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMONS, Feb 10. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly Wore Four o'cicck. NEW WRIT. On the motion of Mr. FORGES MACKENZIE, a new writ for North Staffordshire was issued in the place of Lord Brackley, who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE said that it was a common error to suppose that the East India Company were go verned under a charter. The fact was that ever since 1833 the East India Company had been governed under an Act of Parliament. At the time of the renewal of the charter in 1812 and 1833, the Governments of the day had seen good reason to appoint the Committee. Such, however, was not the intention of the Ministry on the present occasion, but if any point should ariso which might be dubitable, they would take care that every op portunity was given for a full and fiir debate. SMITHFIELD MARKET. Mr. MACKINNON said that, seeing his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department in his place, he wished to ask whether it was intended to bring in a 13111 to remove Smithfield market, in accord ance with the report of the Select Committee of this House and of the Royal Commission on the subject? Sir G. GREY said that a Bill was already prepared, and would very shortly be introduced. Mr. GILBERT JOrIN HE ‘THCOTE was proceed ing to offer some observations on the 80j-et, the purport of which was that the change would be disagre-able to the trade, when he was stopped by the SPEAKER, BE being out of order. BLOCKADE OF SALVADOR. _ _ Mr. THOMAS BARING wished to ask the Secre tary of State for Foreign Affiirs. whether he could state, or lay any papers on the table of the House explana tory of, the cause of the present blockade by British force of the coast of the State of San Salvador in Central America; and, if the reason be the recovery from the Government of that State of claims of British subjects, whether he could state the amount of the whole of the pending claims, and whether there are any similar claims on any of the other states of Central America likely to be enforced in the same manner; and also, whether he could give any opiuion as to the probable duration of the present blockade. Lord PALMEitSTON had not yet received any statement that the blockade had been established The claims that were pending against the Govern ment of Sax Salvador amounted to about 28,0001., which had been admitted by the Government at various times, and excuses had as otten been made for non-pay ment. The admiral had, therefore, received instructions to act in connexion with the consul, and take such steps as he might think expedient to bring the Government to a settlement.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the claims upon other Governments connected with the Spanish American. Republics they wore numerous. Buenos Ayres, however, had act e d in a mos t h an d some and liberal with regard to the claims upon her; but with regard to the others, all that be could say was that negotiations had been pending upon the subjvct. As to the duration of the blockade, that of coarse must depend upon the willingness of the Government of San Salvador to meet the claim, and he hoped that as they bad already admitted its justice, they would not be long in bringing it to a speedy settlement.—(-Hear, hear ) INCREASE OF THE METROPOLUAN POLICE FORCE. Mr. STANFORD wished to ask the Secretary of State for the Homo Department whether the augmenta tion of the Metropolitan Police Force, made in conse quence of the National Exhibition, would be paid for out of the receipts of the Exhibition; and, whether the Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment has thought it necessary to convey any intimation to foreign powers, through the proper channel, of the inconvenience that might arise of large bodies of foreigners visiting this country during the Exhibition in military uniforms, and wearing side-arms, &c.; and whether additional provision has been made for the safe custody of persons charged with police offences during the Exhibition. Sir GEORGE GREY, in answer to the first part of the question, said it was perf ec tly t rue th a t it had been thought necessary to increase the number of the metropolitan police force in consequence of the influx of strangers which the Great Ex hibition was likely to draw to the metropolis ; but the increase would be only for a limited period.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the question of expense, the Royal Commissioners of the Exhibition would be re quired—in fact, had agreed —to pay a portion of the expense, that was, the expense of the police force engaged in guarding the building and in keeping the avenues and park in order; while the Royal Agricultural Society, who proposed to hold an exhibition sear the same spot, had also agreed to pay part of the expense. Any additional force that would be required for the streets would, of course, have to be paid for out of th e general fund.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the next question, namely, as to whether any intimation had yet been made to foreign powers, that their subjects whilst visiting this country would not be allowed to wear side arms, the police authorities thought that no danger was to be apprehended from that course, and therefire that intimation had not been made.—(Hear, hear.) Should such an intimation be necessary, there would be ample time to make it.—(Rear.) THE STAMP ACT. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL wished to know whether Government intended to bring in any Bill to amend that part of the Stamp Act of last session which confines the trial of offences under that Act to the Court of Exche quer in England? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied in the negative, as the restriction only applied to cases of a particular nature, which the Act it.elt created. ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES—ADJOURNED DEBATE. _ On the order of the day for resuming the adjourned debate on this Bill, Mr. REYNOLDS said, in rising for the purpose of explaining his reason for opposing the motion of the Nub!e Lord the First Lord of the Treasury, he felt he had con siderable difficulties to contend with. Indeed he thought when he,took,into consideration those difficulties he might call them legion; and arranging them in numerical order, he begged to remind the House that in the first instance he had to contend with a gigantic and powerful opposi tion. He meant the temporalities of the Established Church; and when he referred to the Established Church, he begged to be specifically understood as not referring to that Estahlishment in its spiritual capacity. With its spiritual c.pacity he had nothing whatever to do. Conscientiously dissenting from its religious creed, he conceded to it those privi leges which he claim e d f or himselc, to worship G o d ac cording to the dictates of his conscience. With its temporalities he had much to do,beoause he believed to the position of those temporalities he might safely attribute all the insults that bad been offered to his creed, and all the disturbances which within the last few months had disgraced the character of certain persons in this coun try. He hoped the House would grant him its indul gence, differing as he did with the majority of tne House. And what did he find? This gigantic church, established with its head on Cinterbury, and extending over the whole of England and Wales— one hand rested upon the Land's-end, another grasped at John-o'-Groats. He found that in Scotland there were six bishops of the English Church assuming titles, and if he crowed St. George's Channel, pursuing the ma. taphor, he found one heel resting on Cape Clear and another on the Giant's Causeway. When he considered that the Established Charon possessed in England 5,000,0001. per annum, with 1,200 benefices, and in Ireland hall a million, with 1,500 benefices, then he felt justified in saying that he had considerable enemies to contend with, He believed that much of the disunion and distf d beenu h r a l - ancemi ght be attributed to these temporali ties. isaid that the whole people of England had protested against this step, but he did not believe that he whole of England had stirred in the matter. The churchman had shouted at the top of his voice, but the working class, the bone and sinew of England, bad stood entirely aloof from the quarrel. He appealed to the common sense of the people, by whom at last justice would be done. The word aggres sion had been frequently made use of in this agitation, and, as he contended, without foundation. He had looked in the dictionary to see what the word meant, and he found it defined as " the commencement of a quarrel." Now, he was told that his Holiness the Pope had com menced a quarrel with this country, but he denied this in tote. The quarrel had been commenced by the Church of England. The Pope had done nothing more than what he had a right to do. He had published a bull metamorphosing vicars-ap . stolic into bishops.—(Hear, hear.) But then it was said that the Pope had conferred territorial power upan these ec clesiastics. They might as well say teat the man in the moon could confer territorial power, as easily as a poten tate who was the weakest in Europe. It was absurd to say so. The real aggression was that which was now at tempted to be made upon the Roman Catholics of Ireland. When Catholic emancipation was granted, one condition was exacted from the Roman Catholics of Ireland, which was that they should give up the 40s. franchise, and that the 10/. should be substituted. Now he (Mr. Reynold.) was told that in 1851, twenty-one years after Catholic emancipation had passed, that her Majesty's Govern ment meant to introduce a measure to deprive the Roman Catholics of Ireland froth the benefit of that compact.. No Catholic' bishop bad power, by the 811, to assume any title in a Protestant diocese under a penalty of 100/.; that was part of the Catholic Emancipation Bill, and no Catholic bishop h a d ever violate d t h a t ru l e . N ow, how ever, th e N o bl e L or d a t th e head of her 'Majesty's Government proposed that it should be pen a l f or any Roman C at h o li c bi s h o p to call himself after the name of any diocese or place in the United Kingdom. He (Mr. Reynolds) called the proposed Bill a violation of the compact entered into between the Government and the Roman Catholics when Cath o li c E manc i pa ti o n was grant e d. Th e Nubia Lord had sa id t h at i n the year 1829 an a d dress had been issued by t w enty-six Roman Catholi c , bi shops, thanking the Legislature for the benefits which had been conferred upon them, and the Noble Lord bad said it would have be en o will if D rs . Ma ale and Cullen h a d i m itated their crimple. There wss, however, no analogy between the cases, for the twenty six bishops had received privi leges, but th e present Roman Catholic bishop s bad no privileges to thank Government for but for penalties. The Hon. Member for Norwich (Mr. Peto), when he seconded the Address, had said that the Roman Catholics themselves would be benefited by by the proposed Bill, and he had said that several Roman Catholics of distinction were on the side of the Governieent, and be mentioned the names of the Duke of Norfolk, Lord Camoye, and Lord Beaumont. He (Mr. Reynolds) had great respect for the Duke of Norfolk, but in matters of religion he felt much re spect for those from whom ho received spiritual sdvice and assistance. He (Mr. Reynolds) as a Roman Catholic refused to be bound by the opinions of the Duke of Norfolk or Lord Camoys, and as for Lord Beaumont, there was no member of the peerage for whose opinion in religions matters he had less respect. The Hon. and Learded Memb er f or Y oug hal (Mr. C. A nstey) bad said there were two kinds of Roman Catholics—OLlO was the Roman Catholic of the Church of Rome, the other the Roman Catholic_ of. the Court of Rome; and be (Mr. Austey) beleeged to the Cithehee of the . . Church of Rome. Now he (Mr. Reynolds), although not deeply read, had always thought that he understood the cardinal points of his creed, and yet he had never heard of the distinction referred to by the Hon. zed Learned Member for Youghal. However, it was clear that his Hon. and Learned Friend belonged to the Roman Catholics of the Church of Rome and of the Court of Rome ' for the late Pope Grego r y XVI. h a d conferred the order of St. Gregory upon him, and the proper title of the Hon. and Learned Member for Youghal was Sir Chisel-em Anstey.—(Loud laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman had said that if the Catholic hierarchy was established in this country the canon law of the Church of Rome would be revived. Now, al though he (Mr. Reynolds) was not a lawyer, yet he challenged the Hon. and Learned Member for Youghal to prove his assertion to the satisfaction of any lawyer. It was an assertion which he (Mr. Reynold.) utterly and entirely disagreed with. The Remelt Cedeulic bishops would not have any more power now than they had as vicars-apostolic. With respect to the order of St. Gregory conferred on the Hon arid. Learned Mem ber for Yougnai, if he did not tell the House for what services that order was conferred he (Mr. Reynolds) would take the earliest opportunity ot doing so. N • one— especially no Iri , laman—could refer to tens ques Lion without referring to the memorable letter of the Noble Lord at vie head of her elejeete's Govern ment to the Bishop of Durham. lie had a chuble reason for referring to the'. letter,—first, because it Lad caused him (Mr. H.) same astonishment whets h, read the trif c , rt duly net very coinplitnen ary, in which the Neese, Lord referred to his (Mr. Reynolds's) creel. Ss (wildly, why he rail.; ed to toe letter was becau,e it bea occasioned him ( Mr. Reynold') souse pecuniary I:se. Ever since he had been a M , mner ot the House of Commons he had eireu hi, inv.riahle arid steady sup port to the Noble Lord at this heal of the Government —(Hear, near, and loud laughter)—at least so tar as the doing so was consistent with the exercise of his public conscience.—(Laughfer.) Snot tly after tie publication of that celebrated letter he had met witn one of his constituents, who was in the habit of doing that which he (Mr. It Inolds) was not in the habit of doing—viz., betting. fits !need had asked him whether he had seen his friend, Lind Joan Russell's letter; he replied, "Yes ; he had certainly seen a letter with Lord John Russell's name at the bottom of it, but it was a forgery, it was not genuine." I'll bet you a sovereign," said his friend, " Done," said I (Mr. Reynold.). It was not necessary for him to tell the House that he was done.—(Rears of laughter.) But toe H..n. Gentleman (the Meinner fur Limerick) had stated his belief that the letter in ques tion contained matter which, if it did not refuse itsele would at least be serviceable to the Church in Ireland. They said that it would—that is, that the letter would— largely tend to prevei.t the increase ot Catholicism. Fur that purpose • the Noble Lord's letter was luieuded. He would apply that to his own eerie. There was not throughout ail England a more asalout Catholic than himself, and he would therefore euppthe that the Nook) Lard's letter, and still more his spa-ech, had warned them against any increase of the Pope's power. In Viet speech the Noble Lord had asserted that it was the custom of all ecclesiastical communities to encroach upon the temporal authorities.—(Hear, hear.) To this he most consciendouely and readily acceded. If it was the case with most ecclesiastical com munities, it was, as the Noble Lord had stated, pecu liarly the case with the Church of Rome, to which lie (Mr. Reynolds) belonged.—(Hear, hear and ironical cheers.) The re was not a Protestant iaside that House, or outside of it, who was more opposed to that encroach ment than himself.—(Hear, hear.) In his opinion there was nothing that damaged religion mere than its connexion with the State. He might say there was nothing that he regretted more, and he could assert that he wished from his heart that the Pope was not, and never had been, a temporal Prince. It was the connexion of his own creed with the State which had damaged it through all time.—(Hear.) But while saying thus much he was not prepared to assert that al church should receive no assistance. When they came across the Channel the case was very different. In England the Romani Catholic population did not contribute more than 5 per cent, of the whole number of the inhabitants. In England, for more than three hundred years, ever since the reign of Henry VIII., the Roman Catholic hierarchy had been all but dissolved. to Ireland the chain of the apostolical descent, had remained unbroken from the time of St. Patrick to the present time. That apostolical succession, or successions it. might be called, was one of the testa by which a true religion was to be ascertained. In Ireland the Protestant Church was in the lowest stew, and its supporters were few. In England they had 6 000,0001. a year to supple. the Estabiisnment, and 16,000 clergymen to fulfil its offices. Was it any wonder that there should be such a discre pancy between the two churches?—(Hear, bear.) The Noble Lord in the course ot his speech had sate, that he desired that the title of bishops should not have been assumed from dioceses in England in place of that of vicars-epos olic, and the Hun. Member for Kerry had expressed a cull stronger desire that the measure should be extended to Ireland. He, tor his own. part, desired that the names should not be altered.—(Hear, hear.) But what he desired was, that the meuus given to the over grown establishment to which he he had alluded should be more equally distributed, and better dispased of, for the benefit of the empire. The tact was, that the du ties of the vicars-apostolic and the newly appointed bishops were the same in tact, and only different its name The Noble Lord had told them that calling the Catholics. Archbishop of Dublin his fa _lace, was U. mistake ,of the Lord Chumberlaiii; but he (Mr. R e yn u id s ) cuulJ tell them a very ditLrent story. The, all recollected the period ot 1821, when George IV. visited Dublin. At that time Lord Liverpool was Prime Minis ter, and George IV. was accompanied by his Lordship and the great otlieers of state, amongst whom was Lord Sidrnoutn, the Secretary of State for the Home De element, who wrote a letter under the authority of the Ktrig to the embolic bishops and archbishops of Ireland, addressing them by their titles; and they were received in Court in the capacity of bishops and archbishops. They were addressed as "My Lords," and they received the natural position which their rank entitled them to. Now that was eight years before emaueipatiou, and yet they were told because the same thing had been dune in 1850 tnat it was a mistake of the Lord Cnam berleia.—(dear, hear.) Within the last week he had the honour of atteueleg the levee of Lord Clarendon, and he found that the Catholic Arch bishop of Dublin attended the levee. He was received in hie official capacity, and h, got his position, which was higher than some Protestant Btehops, and super or to that of the Duke of Liauster. —(Hear, near.) Last Saturday week he (Mr. Reynolds) had the honour of partaking of the hospitality of Lora Clarendon, and amongst the company whom he met at the Vice-Regal table were the Protestant Archbishop and the Catholic Archbishop of Dubtire Surely th it could not be celled a Papal aggression. If a stranger had come in at the time he would nut have been able to discover from the manner of the two dignitaries that there was the least jea ousy between them, so much was it " your grace," hero and " your grace " there.—(Hear, hear, tied a laugh.) All was courtesy with tne Viceroy; no one was more remerkable for courtesy than his Lordship, and he treated the two dignitaries just as if there was no such thing as a Papal aggression. —(Hear. hear.) Now if such scenes as that were to be seen in England it would be said that the whole Court was about to turn Catholic.—(dear, hear.) But the Noble Lord had stated that this measure was to give satisfaction to the Catholics. Now let him take the whole of the Catholics of England, deducting from them those who ' were presentalee, such as the Duke of Nor folk, Lord Carnoys, Lord Beaumont, and some others, to whom the Noble Lord referred the other night, and he would venture to say the whole of them in opinion were hostile and in opposition to this Act. He called it an Algerine Act, but others seemed to have formed very various notions of it. The Honour able Baronet the Member for Oxford said it was not severe enough; while the Hon. Member for K ant, referring to the Noble Lord's letter, said he hoped th e Noble Lord would follow it up in his Bill.—(H ear. ) The Hon. Member fur the county of Limerick considered the measure was not only insufficient but absolutely conteusptible; but he (Mr. Re) reeds) be lieved it was neither insufficient nor cunteniptOle. It was a measure of pains and penalties, and he believed it was calculated to iisflict a w oun d upon the great bulwark of civil and religious liberty. —(Hear, hear.) He believed with his Honourable Friend the Member for Sheffield, that it was a step backwards, and he was ashamtd that such a measure should be thrust upin the House out of respect to the ignorance of the multitude.— (Hear, hear.) The people had been so blinded, so misled, so deceived by the agitators of the press, and the agitators out of doers, that they had not an opinion of their owu on this matter; while there were many Members in the House whom the agitators had made supporters of the measure out of sheer tear of leav ing their seats if they followed the dictates of their own minds. He was one of those who entered upon the discussion of this question with deep regret; he had begun to hope that the time had arrived when Protestant, Catholic, and Presbyterian could live in peace together; but be, it seemed, had been wofully mistaken.—(Hear, hear.) He had crossed the Channel in the expectation that he should be called to support motions for the repeal of the window duty, the taxes on knowledge, the malt tax. and such like taxes, which were obnoxious to the country, or to expreba his opinion as to the propriety of granting the people of Ireland somstbing like a tenaot•right law or some priteetion of that sort, but he h.AI been dreadfully out in his calculation.—(Hear, hear.) The Rouse of Commons had been siccing now some five days, and they bad been occupied with nothing else but this miserable, absurd, and mischievous question of Papal aggreision.--(Hear, bear.) It was his determination to do all in his power to oppose the Bill in every stage. If it should pass, and he thought the chances were it would, in"some shape, he would not be far wrong if he prophesied that the Bill would be a dead letter. He denied that any Government could enforce its provisions, and if the Hon. Gentlemen opposite were to take office to morrow, he denied also that they could, with all their powers, carry out any penalties against his creed in his native country, The Right Honourable Gentleman the Member for Ripon said, on a memorable debate last seEsion of Parliament, that Ireland was essen tially a Catholic country. He thanked him for having made the admission. It always was a Catholic country, and be hoped he would not be thought guilty of a n e xaggeration or of uttering a bigotted phrase, when he said he trusted it would always remain a Catholic country. wh at did they care about Acts of Parliament when they dealt with their religion? Its safety was to be found not only in the intrinsic value its poverty: it wi g 17% i/3 of its doctrines, I UQt clothed in purple and fine linen, and did not fare sumptuously every day.--(Len titer.) It wes—and he gloried in the reflection—clothed in sackcloth and ashes, and he hoped it would continue so. The Catholic people supported by their voluntary contributions 3,500 clergy of regular and secular orders. These clergy cost the state nothing, and within the lest four years some of them had been in want of the common necessaries of life, yet would rather be in that state than ask men to support their Church who did nut believe in it. He recollected an instance lately of a Protestant rectrT of a parish in the city of Dublin seizing the furniture of a Catholic clergyman and advertising it to be sold by auction for the purpose of paying an ecclesias tical due cell. d minister's money. Four-fif ha of the inhabitants of Dublin were Catholics and they paid 13,000/. a year to the clergy of the Established Church, for ministers' money, and yet supported their own priests. That was spiritual and temporal superior.ty with a vet geance. Su great was the anti-Pap i 1 agita tion throuchout the country. that he was astonished not that effigies of Cardinal Wt.etnan were burnt, t.ut that the Cardinal himself did net share the some tate. If he were not mistaken a censiderehlo portion of the lands of the Established Church had wren furnished to supply the cembristible metter.—(Lemiehter.) 11: had been told that some Catholic; would suppers this measure. He could understand Cat holies in office voting for it ; but lie begged to remind them that the (lay of reckoning would come, when they would be ask -d whet her they were sent to the House of Commons to vote penal laws against Catholic bishops, and to t ll a dying man who should wish to leave 1,0001. to Dr. Murray for charitable purposes that if he call e d him the Most R e v. De»iel Murray, Am clibi,lemp of Dublin, all his wishes would be frustrated, and that his money would pass to the Crown, to be given according to the will of the donor, or as the Crown should :Ilia fit. The Noble Lord had said that Roman Catholics were promoted to places in the gift of the Government ; but what was the fact? In the Court of Chancery, in Dublin, the number of Pretestatos employed was 57, whose salaries amounted to 57,0001. a year; while the number of Catholics employed was only 16, and their selfries amounted to 4,0e0/. a year. In the law courts there were nine Protestant judges and 65 Protestant effieers, whose salaries amounted to 54.7191. is=. .11d., while there were only three Catholic judges and 17 Catholic officers with salaries amounting to 16,757/. an Bd. The same principle existed in the Lord-Lieutenant's household, as well as in the Customs, Excise, and all other public offices; and the only cure for all this, the only cup of comfort to be administered to the Catholics, was that their bishops should not be bishops with Irish titles. Dr. Cullee had been spoken of as one not acquainted with Ireland, whereas he was born, reared, and educated in that country, and was more ex tensively connected with the upper and middle classes than any other Catholic bishop. The Noble Lard laboursd under similar misinformation with regard to Dr. Wiseman, whom the Noble Lord had called a foreigner, but he was to all intents and purposes a British subject. He was burn of Irish parents at Seville, in Spain ' lived there seven years, and then came and resided in his Iwn native county • f Waterford.—(Laud laughter ) They all knew that a man born on board a British vessel at sea might call Sussex, Kent, or aev other place his native county.--( Renewed laughter.) The don. Gentleman c .ncluded by disclaiming all sectarian or bigoted views, and declaring that, with re ference to the Protestant Church he entertained no feeling towards her but that of kindness and respect. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that if the House had taken the usual and ordinary course of allowing this Bill to be introduced at an early period, so that the House might become acquainted with its provisions, he should not have thought it his duty to trouble them with any observations at this stage; but, as they had not only been occupied one long night, but would probably be engaged for a similar period in a discussion with respect to a Bill about to be introduced, in the absence of all knowledge as to its provisions— a species of ignorance which they must necessarily labour under—and, as it appeared to him that the observations made by his Noble Friend on introducing the Bil', with re spect to its purport and effect, had been misunderstood by the House, he was desirous of explaining what appeared to him to be the general scope and effect of the Bill as described by his Noble Friend. But before he did so he hoped the House would permit him to call attention to what was the offence which it was intended by this Bill to meet. It was to be observed that in the course of last year the offence consisted in the introduction of a bull, by which cer tain persons were entitled by the Pope of Rome to assume certain territorial sees and dioceses, defined by certain limits. That was the whole extent of the offence; the consequences of it would have to be regarded and dealt with by the House; but they were derived solely from the circumstance that those titles were authorised to be assumed as of certain pretended sees and rtiocerres of this country. The view he took, which was one he thought the House would agree in, was that in meetinng these consequences you should act on a very sound and safe maxim of politics, and that you ought not to introduce a remerly more extensive than was necessary to meet the evil complained of. He thought, therefore, if they introduced and passed a measure which should effectually prevent persons from holding those sers, as being bishops or archbishops of those pretended dioceses in England, that the real object which was sought would be found, and that they heeded nut to legislate beyond the occa sion, or seek to provide against possible evils which had not yet arisen.—( Hear, hear.) Now, he believed the proposed Bill would in fact effectually prevent the evils which had been complained of. That such was the object of the Bill there was no question, and that it had been framed with considerable care to meet that object he was well assured—it would be for the House to con-ider with what success. He must be allowed to observe, that it was important to draw a distinction between the two different branches of the offence which would be constituted by the Bill. One portion of it—a very large portion of it—had re lation to what was conceived by many, and, as he appre hended, justly conceived, to be an insult to this count ry (Hear, hear) --the other portion of it was the injury inflicted on certain classes of the inhabitants. But those two things were in themselves perfectly distinct. Theme had been title Erect, that the insult offered to this country by a foreign poser introducing a bull, by which he professed to govern the whole of the kingdom by his own immediate dependents, had produced an undue belief with respect to the extent of the injury likely to arise froin that bul ; that the two thugs could not be separated in the public mind without some diffi culty, and that a very great desire fsr legislation had arisen, not merely from the injury it was suspected the introduction of the hull would cause, but, in a great measure, by the insult which the public consieered to have been offered to the Queen and to the country. As to the insult that had been offered it would be useless to say anything. The expression of opinion on the part of the country and of the House was amply sufficient to show that the introduction of any measure containing an expression of their opinion would be ' fully adequate to repel, in the most proper and dignified manner, the insult which had been offered by the Court of Rome. With regard to the injury inflicted by the bull, it undoubtedly affected the Boutin Cathode branches of the community, but it was, however, of a twof Id nature. Tee first irjury was of a spiritual, the second was of a temporal diameter. With the first he apprehended they had nothing to do; and if it was possible for them to separate compl e t e ly any questions with respect to the spiritual and temporal effect of the introduction of the bull, and the assumptions of titles thereupon, it would be well and fit for them to do so, apart from the question of what was due to the honour and dignity of the country. It was said the effect of the bull in tem poral matters w- old be to give to certain persona assuming the titles of archbishops or bishops of dioceses and sees the power of dealing with appointments relating to religious en dowments made by Roman Catholics; that it would enable them to deal with the property given to support charities, or for other religious purposes, in a different and more exten sive manner than at present, and that the result would be to give to those prelates powers not intended to be con ceded to them by the persons who founded those institu tions. As to the spiritual power introduced, he bad not heard it suggested, nor had be seen it in any of the publications he had read, that there were any specific powers which might be enforced by the bishops of these pre tended sees, distinct or different from the powers which might had been enforced by the bishops in partibus and vicars apostolic, or anything to show they were not as great in one case as in the other; but with respect to the temporal power, it was of importance, he apprehended, to stop the assump tion by any person being, or pretending to be, as undoubt edly these bishops must profess themselves to be, under the canon law and dependent on the Pope of Rome, of dealing with the rights and interests of British subjects in a manner different from and inconsistent with the manner which had hitherto obtained. The difficulty to be feared would arise when the questions arising from these appointments came to be adjudicated upon by the courts of law, because the courts taking coenizance of every species of endowment for the benefit of Roman Catholics, and ent xcing trusts connected with them, would inquire into the rights of appointments as mare facts to be ascertaiued,and wound refer to the authosity of the Roman Catholic bishops to know by what authority the pers on s interested had been appointed. Now, the Bill, as was stated by his Noble Friend (Lord John Russell) on a former occasion, was intended in the fist instance to extend the provisions of the Roman Catholic :Relief Act of 10th George IV., which imposed a penalty of 1001. for every offence. in case of any Roman Catholic prelate assiine;ig the title of any existing see throughout the United Ki ng d om, that penalty of 1001. to be enforced for every offence, but only sued for by the Attorney- General. Now this Bill, by the first section, extended the penalties of that clause to the case of the assumption of any title wha tever—whatever it might be—from any city, or any town, or place, or territory, or district whatever withirt the United Kingdom. If the clause had been found to be effectua:—a matter on which he could not profess to express any Opinion— in preventing the assutnption of the titles of exisnug sees, it might be eq u ally expected to have a similar effect in preventing. the assumption of titles from places within the United King dom. But it did not stop there. Several instances had been alluded to in which it .was alleged that Roman Catholic bishopsassumed the title s o f ex i sting sees, and it was thought at desirable to endeavour to carry into effect the ob ject of prohibiting the as-umption of titles by making every act done by persons holding sees of that description in their characters of bishops or archbishops null and void. It appeared to him that any clause providing that any Act whatever, or any deed, instrument, or writing made or executed by or to any one assuming such titles, or done in the character of assuming them, should be null and void, twoohuilstiha temporal vethe authority, of completely earalyznig, wi t h respec t bishop, hrit.Y. all the powers ul any person taus Maiming to be aand that it would not be possible for him to do anything which was effectual in a court of jus tice for the enforcement of any religious or charitable trust or use; for, as the Act of Parliament declared any deed by a person in that position to be void, it could not be given in evidence or proved, sofas to enable any one in his quality of bi.liop to do that which, if done in any other character, would be perfectly valid. In addition to that they proposed to endeavour to prevent other persons giving those bishops of pretended sees titles from any plane iu the United King dom, and they t h ere f ore p ro p o se to enact that it should not be lawful for any one to endow or to give any sum of money whatever for the support of such dioceses or sees, or to' any person performing ecclesiastical functi .ns as such, of such districts, and words sufficiently large would be introduced to provide against any evasion of these provisions. They further provided, that every devise of real or personal Property given to any person by his title, as de rived from any diocese or see, should, in point of fact, be forfeited to the Crown, anti that the Crown should be able to diispose of it in such manner as should be thought fit. The s street of that would be, that it would be totally impossible for any person intending to give any grant for charitable 'purposes, of which the bishop or archbishop of the diocese was to be the administrator, to givelt to him' by the name or with reference to the name of his diocese. Undoubtedly it was not intended to prevent any person making any be neficial bequest to any Roman Catholic; the only thing was, that in doing so he must give it by the name in which the donee usually went, and that, f'r example, he must give it to Dr. Wiseman, not to Dr. Wiseman, Archbishop of West nAnster, as, if giYen by the latter name, it would be void, and the money would be disposable by the Crown. The House would see, therefore, that if it was intended to make a beneficial bequest, it would be properly given by the ,same of the gerund who w as t o ' receive it ; that, - if b e ti it was a charitab' e bequest, it could not egiva except by some na me which betokened sucee!soli,on a certain corporate character, but if it wa s o , te fic, as spiritual beereets had been given to the vicars-aP.en for it. would be perfectly good for charitable Purl la _ f jaw. the time being, and would be enforced by the courts e ll en . They had also endeavoured to prevent in any way perooll sions of the Bill from the bequest being given to „gn i in connexion with the bishop, or by reference to ani rso r e s p. cular see, or to the person who held it, or any P t v>u pointing to an office within it, and, if any such hetlr - it e et made, it would have to be disposed of b the Cr_,! not ir being possible for the person himself toydispose loj a P_. t bst tently with the law. It was thought more deter:ll the there should be a ferteiture to the Crown than to o ,_ e w hitb, bequest absolutely void, because there might be case . l a .ano s from accident or ignorance, a bequest might be Matlet ne t to of the relatives of a prelate, when it would not be . p e rv4 o ,, t a annul the deed, and when i was right to enable t e h. e ' . ,„ t he to grant it to the persou intended. That was, in nuci, ss be general scope and ground of the Bill, and it w" er go , thought the II Dee would see, effectually pr,,ev e :t n e a r pg" fi.,111 assuming titles ;tom places in - the u° 4 or ege" don), and the existence of territorial dioceees. , ein eer l'he case referred to by the 1101!. and Learned in, or for alreffiele ( Mr. Roebuck ), of an archbishophelPeoleoiog ::ear Westminster, would come precisely within t ,. t bee 4- of the Bill, if it could .be shown that those words by . 15o• text had any reference to the giving of the Arehhiltll detibtedly, in ordinary parlance, it sees true that Ale--grave, when sitting in the House of Nott• peers, l"" Nov bietaro lVe , ain:tister, and in the same way r t wins i • hers iii that Heuse were Aleinbe ain %.% e't inthste t'he fe ct ' ) only one ceuld Alember for Westminster; out tbetele the pereeir claiming the pretended diocese residity„A et ee peen would give him no authority or title wtiatever. dins ' a t, "id the would not interfere with the sY n l l b ', of the Reiman Glib' lie prelates, tat: he d'fle ret ne setlael, r, anti thought it would be the necessary wits 01 the 13iil that this action would be It was desirable to effect that objec t 1 3 , M e ' jetert tb effectus tid most quiet manner possible, but, if it was - f eels ° it was ell he House should seek to do, enn" w ee O rest content with provisietie suited to the oceasl ine p ow on i said. again, that they did nut deal with the a Roman Catholic priest or prelate by In erlaces to W e r e terrors of eternal punishment inducing a nets ea b i n b ofb, h , the perfermatfce of seve•al duties and r i ghts W as said re o wise he w tilt! have d o n e . F o r instance, it W e re sole tj t o Ree.an Catholic p relates m i ght pro mulgate sor req uire be to meet in a synod like that of Tburlei, an u e „ pug y clergy to threaten to deny the sacraments to ". - 0 s Do to enlisted in the British to my or gave evidence_oloid D el 0 "curt of justice. That was possible, but it L re wo, , 0 p-oper to introduce such a question when be? tt reason for it, nor any likely to arise, and.. did s rige obt hesitation in saying that if' such would be an offence at common law, and h e it !ellf ett° blo the courts of cernmon law would be found suf6cl!. eesite o to punish it. (Hear, hear.) It was therelfe; pere 4 oo they should not attempt to meet cases °P. thel a question dno ao 0g were terrified by their spiritual instructors, i t t i n ,yl i o not cases legislation could touch, because, 110 7 tet s 1 %0 before the courts of law, they were P la n ationDj were s cret between the victim and the,llsteets,oo afforded him spiritual instruction. Ty l , his t ie meaning by the instance already referred to he in iste,e Friend,. where the sacraments were refused to a_f r ol, Viedinent, it was obvious that it he had been be `;s had consent e d t o v i o l ate h i s consc i enc e, en tit would /3i o petard of an act o f w hi c h h e rea ll y a pproved, to nes the (1 ,fl obtained theameuts ot the Church, an-, „ t tbeeee t o that he had nut done so, and had died wit“ ° ,7 o Bo,:" made the circumstance notorious. In ail „ ellc e 7 t eent °j ilt° they must appeal to the good sense and Ju'oe. es sioll e dto Roman Catholic body, who would resist the oPP'. op° ,bo Roman Catholic clergy whenever the latter we,, r .' cion ee t a t e enforce it. He appealed with very great colL f e lt th a i ett Roman Catholic laity in this country, an d "d - to C° eel s legislating ou this question they were bona one es 0 , that body as being in all respects, with °f on as th e of Lion of spiritual matters, in the same situati_ we lt* 00 a selves, animated by a sincere desire for " n t r der e lid e g esd, the country, and f or th e preserva tion ce -- it oe- , , port government. When, then, they thought i t We' es to introduce a measure of this descriptie t Z it it merely for the protection of the Protestants, ' ten dert ° f A conscientiously believed, not less for the Pl: ° i i e eeti . ,t•;oll Roman Catholic laity.—(Hear, bear.) Ile but be D em ,,otigt large bode' of them felt in the same waYt";, e rtf they were so bound down by their religion , nYf b , ve er and by a regard for the honour of their Ch the theeleroe° were not able fully to express their feelina Fur 01 " 0 tages which would arise from the measure oneeitot part, he would have been better pleased if then i f had 13 ,0 it had never arrived, and if the question ite e ht there " If arisen.— (Hea-, hear.) He must say, be the a g i n eati l lr be little question as to whom the Bill woo' r ieetlY beef could not satisty those who said—no doubt. i l l if e , bed erA scientiously—they did not believe any i ;', 1 11.-e( l 'd to inflected by the introduction of the o bleete b es hear.) These Hon. Geut:emen conscientiouslYn of em any legislation, though it was possible M a d l yif ll a dtO thought the Pope w o uld h av e ac ted more Prelf tha t lt o kel express d his intention to i n t ro duce a bull " w ho 1 ,0 1 the State and t o th e country . As to thes e d w ho upon the question in a political light, an ~e D eeeen, lo gr handle of it for the purpose of embarrassing t" n ' t oo s t ' fa r vernment, they could argue the Bill was eatthe e ld be or that it was not strong enough, and so it f t ' ,re r, bed sable to satisfy them ; but, with respect t.' neat the of the House who really arid sincerely felt the Vibe been dune which ought to be redressed, he lm sorn for c s , p m u e r a p s ( u )s r e e t b r et w Or t 7 ic t i h i et i n t wasa b fi e t r aiinictleopdreciop.erhe go so the ac' htlaioiiacsssleiratde,aLlsbvaeydsoporbotteedssuedottleweiitrhdersruirtebr ob t eY tbe , vete tnn e. io tutted w. , b o y b i t e h e e t same s. a s t e i e t l i ti o g r s a o fi f that potes ens to t i ald nitY 8s their ill"' they should obey a measure of this P d r e ° B P c e ri r P tli V e Tti li tl: ieef e r° tt n ; which male it an offence by statute law tO to PO/Ppose any place in the kingdom, or to administer t he n od with reference to those titles? He believe exist iii le a would find the Roman Catholics would not 1 , pror 0 , e a admitting that there was great danger in roaltlltt pt on political questions, he thought he was safe ":, - ataaL l ', o o He thought it was but fair to give them an oti j ieb "„"b s f seeing whether they would not obey the law ` A ' h i pot t o be establish d, and he felt satisfied that if they Ake f a un the law, and that it it should be necessary 10 0 11 be I° 4 - nt e stringeut measures, the power of Parliament W ° gine!" r.) to be of the strongest kind, and could easily rut r, which would amply tenet the question. . t A for , o . l* ,i e ed He did not think there would be any neces s lill-au' ne es• measure. lie telt great regret that so rash ° the a step had been taken as that which rendered t ilde < t° , of sary—a step which could have no beneficial " af f e ct it at ,, i 'lied f t.. , h ,u e u ß d o d t i t s ia po n , C ed a t h o o a li i e d Roman Caffeine religion, and which ht t ime be w( 1 - esee r perfect confidence that the Roman Cath ° "" wine etas oe due administration of th web p ii n ca o ill t l e W e a t a a na n d in ti s well/ t b an i:b ae butdife laity; but b m u e t as a u t re the 54J11' designed not ertly for the protect of lie believed, for the protection of themselves ags pet e r aseumpeon of temporal power —Wear. hear.) m ein so, owing to the noise of Al. nibers leaving Lord ASHL .eY rose, but was inaudible for e ' f l o ose• 'oaf th ass t bet on oy charge against the Roman Catholic bishops, this t eas °ode!, had seized on, and desired to keep, positions l° bold , r eeo nr a which they would not be allowed to occupy e nte i,g n ot the same circu tistancvs, even in a Catholic coTtlif, w as te . by a e,athofic Sovereign.—( Hear, beer ) of olllfilotco question which merely affected the Churc:Ltm ( Alm (Hear, r hear.) It was one that applied with d ? e eeri tbn lio , the Wesleyans, the Independents, anti, lade , p an ° Li dt b. class of Dissenters. It also affected the ft '?" rig ht !flo r ' themselves, and most uedoubtedly inferior clergy of the Roman Catho to t at t b bee hear.) Ile must here express his astonisbnle.neeter b ment made by the Hon. Member for Malin ere i t atreCtedcru'rch..l9olto; declared that the Dissenters of the north W a l aft,,caet r e:; up with . the opposition to the Pa; at t",,efe pie ce mination 'NO fie could not bele expressing his gratification mination wlfch the Dissenters came to, wi l t ! t e ~1 10 I/1; • that they would make common cause wi t ," When i tr e f against the common enemy.—(Hear, hear' /flissell te l, — . Member for Manchester declared that tbe "e a tO th:yinet north had not made a movement in opP?s it 4 e, et< adapted by the Church of Rome in tuts n':„ .4 of l'" ment. For what were the facts upon this oble p h ee d ° ve h e e permitted to take exemption to the correctn- point' ft' that a most remarkable document from to hire, ':„ s een t LI Learned Dr. Vaughan, of Moorside, Lsece be ts ". rwa w ag i g to re a s l s l it t in h , a h t ad clea b r e n e e n ss ar o g f published, in which the whole question at , imp the Protestants and the Roman Catholics, as teg- e te 0 4° 4 . )o Wer _ A j) A ji u t e h d ou w g i h t t h n e nf u l 11 1 1 e - er ° l lf vu e : P o °l6 which were the characteristics of the, boot potic, arrogmrit, style.—(Hear, ) He had deie this d icume c nOtit woMel read an extract from it : the -- as e i "In all ibis we see Romanism in a 'ol.—•-e come e more liberal interprefations of it so comuwiention / o ef or: t Catholics before the passing of the Ema nc t r e rn tP , e eecl e L, form, iiideed, which is so much after the P o a fou ish P . piot' e a and offensive, strikingly i l r na iong, n yinA tunes in the h story of he Papacy' , as I 5 , tor egi'liber is e ere o enough, if allowed silently to take his ceurd to tbole,,nee dangerous alike to the British CroWo a n t fathers eid civil and religious, which our Protestan tbe t 1 ,4 queat lied to us." rid showed jo, This was a remarkable docume nt ' 8 more lilt e oenio were n° • by ee t Nonconformists of these days t !l otions wheedled out of their pure Protestzfn lan d, th e de '0 ol %el.:entail's address to the peeple, nf , e , g e fforts Vorgt iu' to same direction by James 11. - Nonconformists of former days, nY The fire' ei o (Ilea.) the ijoue e et ed urged against the proposition before it w as dir e , 1 10 .0 a weakness of the p ewer against wit"to `li?tit 00' g? was riot w aknees a relative term? a lly tillyeee 'Pet which was physically week, be Yet / nor of t he brio eft was it not clear, that although the iw w ., e n r i t her V ia e - oold ( 0 1 4 sovereign was trifling, indeed, and had " policy. that be to are) armies to carry out his aggressive E u ror„, by his influence, excite half the nations w",pt', his policy, and defend him against ass a e n wl ik i s pleer 130_,,' Had not France aud Austria and Spain " onog iotg i o ! t o e e subsidies to eepouse his cause a lece b il :fare t he 7ed t° ' was not from tear that the measure L eo ° fp brought forward. A great insult ha° nnu it to o pV s to nation by the Pope of Rome, and that a. th . _AtoO l i e repressed.—( Hear.) But then it was sold th e Kt is tlO t i. • thins before the House would interfere . eri be l ot een t t he P l y, extension of the ecclesiastical policy of t . n e. e raeo" t of I t be religion, and that, in lac', it was an infri . r , th ietc_ is i t e vileges granted to the Roman Catholics loT ted s isojr oe se,'„, Now, for himseit, be would say, and he ct . ha t fet,_ A Ut he ld tvo same declaration for many thousan ds 0 , eid 0 0 be • he hail attended several large meetings D ro op e t°l to t e e tion, and had heard the opinions given eall s grar i nnetr —that he did not desire that the Priviletneeeld be rio t ' . 06 Roman Catholics by the Act of 1829 r , ti e s ide!' l e 0 upon in the smallest degree.— ( Hear.), l u we ee (1 0 1 tb r jo posing the Roman Catholics, but they fr n eo . r 4 whether they would allow the Catholics i . o r ,r, nte staelef th' s rights which properly belonged only to t 1 _ s ' grgu' - o eC e r s , But it w vian of this country.—(Bear, hear. pope 0 01 1 jog this arrangement on the part t r the 1/° •0 ° ai d ,° sary for the full dev e lopment . t e _ jition , , tholie religion. He had n „n o _f ee ottb,o u t bit , that by the Act of 18._•9 the. n wen t or he itow tf y right to a full and complete develop that t hat 1. 5 eoen e x gion, and be would ' Catholic Church which bad been gov_Tl na t becl i n ":„..(o7,a for BUO years, should have the power . . le to ni 3bc3P • arr ei !le i go farther, and said in 01 ..8 v e_ d , ction to . w riS hear.) But while he would give his stn hat terri- ry - en t. • meat, he had heard nothing to prove to _ ,t sary, to convert these vicars-apost?li c Ole tit were necessary Roman Catholic religion to its proper e not ca bens Cardinal Wieeman , o te e, v i? (Hear, hear.) Westrt" We fl Catholics is oci Archbishop of the Roman Dr. . do 0 to enable those bishop! iegitime t i r b j e- - 000 ee in accordance with the statement which ciaillleabistopeo, forth to the public, the Church of R .. e The Arc a, „or over all persons, wherever it bad Pe_w e !r , rin di e tio ns ,,wo Westminster would gave an extef i ltt cs t, T er s e r,. Archbishop of the Roman Catho diction' ` B abe give a limited and a defined ju LO U ? _„ e r t they, were, revolution of 1830, as evidence that ailed to tn , 'revolution Loctis Phillips was I ,!q a be FrerlCOld titles important? 'They had the testiml for von' I ium, ging -nejsingr hear.) So in the case . of Be g o r p and uo P.4 14 b. oiled -King of the 13elgians, 4 not as King of France, but as King 0 I . • --#th • PETITIONS. The Sheriffs of London appeared at the bar of the House and presented three petitions from the Lord Mayor and Aldermen relative to sewers and other matters. Mr.:BUSFEILD presented a petition from Bradford praying for a repeal of the paper duty. Sir H. H. INGLIS presented a petition from a place in Essex, praying the House to take measures to extir pate Popish institutions in this country. Petitions were presented to the same effect by Mr. H. DRUMMOND, from places in Surrey, and by Mr. CLIVE, from places in Wales. Mr. GLYN presented a petition from Kendal against the window-tax. Mr. BUCK presented a petition from a place in Devon complaining of agricultural distress. AtOOCk presented a petition from Croydon, praying for the establishment of county financial boards. Petitions against the window-tax were presented by the Hon. H. F. Berkeley from Clifton; by'Mr. Alderman Humphery from the parish of St. George's, Southwark; forty-one from places in Westminster; by Mr. Wilcox, from Southampton, and three petitions by Mr. Mowatt. Petitions against Papal aggression -were presented by Mr. S. Adair, from Durham; by Sir W. Verner, from places in the north of Ireland; by Colonel Chat terton, from the county of Cork; by Mr. Christopher, from places in Lincolnshire; by Lord Claud Hamilton, Sir William Jolliffe, and; the Hon. Mr. Corry, from Tyrone. Mr. CHRISTOPHER presented a petition from a place in Lincolnshire, complaining of agricultural dis tress. The How. MEMBER also presented a petition from a place in Lincolnshire against the admission of Jaws into Parliament. Mr. P. SCROPIC presented petitions from 400 beads of families complaining of distress in the Isle of Skye, and also of the administration of the Poor-law in Scot land. AFFAIRS OF INDIA. Mr. LABOUCHERE, in reply to a question which Mr. Herries had put the other night, intimated that it was his intention to lay on the table the returns of the Board of Trade with respect to India. These papers would contain all the monthly returns received by the Board of Trade, but he could not say what the dates would be. Mr. HERRIES said that he wished further to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman as to the extent of the dates. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that he would give papers with other dates, but he desired to know to what ex tent any papers supplied to the House would extend? WEST INDIA. TRADE. In reply to a question from Mr. NEWDEGATE, Mr. HAWES said that he could not give any infor mation respecting the amount of the colonial trade with this country. RENEWAL OF THE EAST INDIA CHARTER Lord JOCELYN wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Board of Control whe ther it was the intention of the Government to move for the Committee on the East India charter during the present session; and also whether it was their intention •to alter in any way their mode of management in the - event of the charter being renewed without siterstice • API 4 tku ' 4, 1 • th e not N4°', the it a pt • the the •ts • tot • • tit, 140 the Pu• , to] .1111 ite, for t , Joh, the Bin 013 ifot; 41 2 . 1 tOrk kgb talo, tin lan e bit Zlov, 001, big,