The Sun. — London, England, 1845-04-25 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, April 24. At half-past Four there was a Commission for giving the Royal Assent to certain• Bills. The Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor, the Duke of Buceleueh, and Lord Wharnelitie. The Commissioners having taken their seats at the foot of the throne, the Usher of the Black Rod was ordered to summon the Commons to the bar of their Lordships' House. The SPEAKER soon afterwards appeared at the bar, accompanied by many of the Members. The Royal Assent was then given in the usual form to the following Bills .—The Sugar Duties Bill, the Glass Duties Bill, the Customs Duties Bill, the Mutiny Bill, the Marine Mutiny Bill, the Thames Navigation Bill, and Britton's Divorce Bill. The Commons then withdrew, and their Lordships adjourned during pleasure. Their Lordships re-assembled at Five o'clock. Messengers from the House of Commons brought up several Bills. MAYNOOTH. The Earl of WICKLOW presented two petitions from the county of Wicklow, one against the grant to .Maynooth, and the other in favour of the grant to the Church Education Society. The Duke of BUCCLEUCH presented petitions from several places against the grant to Maynooth. ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSIONERS. The Duke of RICHMOND wished to know whether the Ecclesiastical Commissioners had come to any reso lution with respect to the sale of the property under their care. Lord WHARNCLIFFE said that they had come to some resolutions, which would be laid on the table. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. The Earl of CLANCARTY presented petitions from Louth, and various other places, in favour of Church Education in Ireland. The Noble Earl also presented three petitions against the additional grant to Maynooth. He wished to say a few words in justification of the vote he intended to give against that measure, should it ever come before their Lordships' House. He had no wish to stand in the way of the education of any class of her Majesty's subjects, but he thought that no money ought to be voted by the State to support any system of education, unless the State had un limited control over it, and unless the Govern ment was responsible for whatever was taught The esperiment tried in establishing the College of May nooth had signally failed. During the fifty years that the College had been in existence, no one individual celebrated either in literature or science had been edu cated there. He believed that there was a general opinion prevalent in Ireland us to the inefficiency of Maynooth College. When the question came before the House, he should certainly vote against it unless a searching inqui y were previously made into the disci pline pursued at May nooth. The grant was decidedly at variance with the oath of supremacy, and nothing was more likely to increase the ecclesiastical power of the See of Rome. It was said that the question of principle was disposed of in 1795; but he must remind the Noble Lords that those who used this argument had repeatedly taken the oath of supremacy. To that oath obligations attached, and in his opinion Noble Lords were bound to observe them. The Marquis of NORMANBY believed it was the general desire of the House that the discussion on this subject should be postponed until the Bill came formally before the House ; and he merely rose Jcr the pur pose of referring to the statement made by the Noble Earl in the early part of his address. The Noble Earl stated that the College of Maynooth had been established for more than fifty years, but since that time it had produced no men of eminence or learn ing. Now, when he held office in Ireland, he made it his duty to inquire into this subject, and, certainly, the impression left upon his mind of the religious learning and general instruction to be found and given there was far different to that of the Noble Lord. Every one knew that that institution was conducted on such a footing as was not likely to produce very rich fruits, but he could not suffer the Noble Marquis's assertion that Maynooth had produced no person of eminence for learning or virtue. The Earl of CLANCAUTY explained that the object of his nb-,:ervaticni tended to inquiry as to what the College had produced. The Duke of WELLINGTON thought it would be better to adhere to the custom of the House of stating the substance of any petition which was presented, and not to speak upon the principle until the regular time for the discussion came on. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, while allowing the general convenience of not speaking upon peti tions, yet conceived that if the privilege of speaking on petitions were done away with, much valuable time would be lost. MAYNOOTH. Lord BROUGHA M , in presenting a petition against the grant to Maynooth, took the opportunity of contra dicting as positively as words could do, the statement which had been made in the other House of Parliament, that an attack which had appeared in one of the French papers was written by one of the Ministers of France. That statement had given great pain to the individual to whom it referred, and he was requested to give the rumour the most unqualified contradiction. The Earl of CLANCARTY complained that he had asked a question to which he had received no answer. `lle object of that question was to ascertain how her Majesty's Ministers could reconcile this grant to May nooth with the terms of the oath of supremacy. Lord MONTEAGLE said, that he conceived that not withstanding what had been said of the oath of supre macy and the Act of Settlement, he thought that he would be a person of extraordinary ingenuity who could discover, within the four corners of the oath of lupremacy, anything which ..at all forbid the grant to Maynooth, though perhaps the Noble Earl's ingenuity was equal to the task. The Earl of CLANCARTY complained that the Noble Lord had attacked him ungene sous's, and stated that the object of the Bill in 1795 was to provide education for the Roman Catho- Ilea of Ive:and, aid he cone:-ive,l that this additional grant would only tend to incr e ase the spirit of insubordination, which had been encouraged, if it bad not been altogther elicited, by the proceedings at Maynooth. Lord BEAUMONT said the Noble Earl had dis played the most deplorable ignorance of the Catholic religion if he conceived that one tetet of that religion had been altered. The object of the grant in 1795 had been to furnish education for the Roman Catholics of Ireland. The people of Ireland were dependent upon their priests for their education, and the object of this grant was to improve the education of the priests, and conseciu , .ntly of the people. The very reasons which justified the Bill of 1795 justified also the grant of this year, Bat if the Noble Earl wished to make any state ment, a Noble I)uke wou►d present a petition to morrow, and then, in accordance with the custom of the House, he n;ight enter into a discussion of the principle. RAILWAYS. Lord BP.OUGHANI presented a petition from seve ral persons in Manchester, Nottingham, and other places, largely interested in railways, complaining that their property had been most materially injured by the alterations made in the mode of management by the directors, and he would take that opportunity of stating that he entirely differed from the petitioners, for he thought if they chose to risk their money in these speculations, they should not complain if their trust was abused. Lord BROLTG HA NI also presented a petition from the churchwardens of the parish of Hardwich in the county of Berk, in favour of the grant to Maynooth. CONSTABULARY FORCE OF IRELAND. 'The Marquis of NORMANBY said it would be recollected that a short tine ago he brought under the notiee, of the House the circumstance of an officer of the constabulary force having re sponded to a forbidden toast, at a iinner by the High Sheriff of Armagh. He believed that his Noble i , riend the Secretary for the Colonies had some informaion to communicate to the lions - . Lord STANLEY' said he had made inquiry into the subject, and found that after the late ass'zes at Armagh, the High Sheriff sent an invitation to dinner to the high constable of the district, who was however unable to attend, and the - .invtation was therefore extended to thr:e of his officers. Two of these officers attended the dinner in plain clothes, and the other in his uniform, and at this dinner the latter officer certainly dud respond to the toast of " the glorious and immortal memory of William the Third." The Lord-Lieutenant of the county therefore decided to remove this officer to an other part of the country. But at the same time they were bound to admit, from communications which the Government had had from Colonel 11PGregor and other parties in Ireland, that the officer who had been guilty of this breach of the regulations of the constabulary force, had impartially discharged his duties, and always kept himself aloof from politics. The M arqu i s of N O RMA NBY expresse d hi mse lf satisfied with the explanation, and the subject dropped. THE BISHOPRICS OF ST. ASAP!' AND BANGOR. The Earl of POW IS brought in a Bill for repealing the act uniting. these sees, and giving her Majesty power to appoint a Bishop of Manchest er . The Bid was read a first, time, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday, the 2d of May. Lord MON FEAG LE gave not i ce that at some future ca rnenti , ,ned in stage of the Bill he should move, as a counter-inot ion, That the revenues of the Welsh Bish o p r ;, the Fi rs t R'port of the E cc l es i astical Commissioners should be applied to the benefit of the parochial cle rg y instead of the Episcopal Fund. , THE NIAYNOOTH GRANT. The LORD CHANCF,LLOR presented a petition from Dublin in favour of this grant. Lord Ctunpbeil, Lord Denman, and Lord Hardwiele, pre:en,til petitions against the grant. Lord CANiPBEI.I. presented a petition from the tradesmen and shopkeepers of Pontypool, against the Bill passed last session, for abolishing imprisonment for debt under 201. BEER HOUSES. The Dike RICIINIOND presented a petition from the clergy of the Archdeaconry of Chichester, praying the House to pass some measure for decreasing the de moralisation occasioned by beer houses. RAILWAY TRAFFIC. . . The Duke of RICHMOND also presented petitions from several place, in the same part of the country, praying for the stoppage of railway traffic on Sundays ; but he could not agree with the petitioners, for he could not see how the mails were to be conveyed. SCHOOLMASTERS IN SCOTLAND. The Duke of RICHMOND also presented a petition from Abernethy, in the county of Inverness, praying for an increase of the stipend of schoolmasters in Scotland, which he moved should be referred to the Select Com mittee. LONDON ORPHAN ASYLUM. Lord WHARNCLIFFE brought in a Bill for extend- ing the powers of the trustees of that institution, which was read a first time. SILK WEAVERS. The Earl of DALHOUSIE:gave notice that he should to-morrow present a petition respecting silk weavers, on which he should found a motion on that day week. The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS , April 24. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. The Spelsey Road Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. GROGAN presented a petition from a company interested in the Grand Canal Railway complaining of the standing orders of the Portarlington line. On the motion of Colonel T. WOOD, the London Orphan Asylum Bill was read a third time and passed. LIVERPOOL DOCKS BILL. On the order of the day being read for the third read ing of the Liverpool Docks Bill, Mr. ESCOTT moved the omission of the following clause :—" And whereas doubts have been entertained whether the powers and remedies given to the trustees for recovering and enforcing payment of the rates and duties payable to them under and by virtue of the said recited Acts, are applicable to the recovery of the rates and duties payable by vessels entering the said port and not using the docks of the trustees ; and it is expedient that such doubts should be removed ; be it enacted, that if the master of any vessel entering the said port, and not using the docks of the said trustees, shall refuse or neglect to pay to the saidj trustees the rates payable in respect of such vessels, it shall be lawful for any justice of the peace of the counties of Lancaster or Chester, as the case may require, upon complaint in writing made before him by the person authorised to de mand or receive the said rates, that he had demanded the same from the said master, and that the same were due and unpaid, to issue his warrant to take and distrain such vessel, her tackle, apparel, and furniture, or any part thereof, and to detain such distress until such rates shall have been paid ; and in case any of the said rates shall remain unpaid for the space of three days next after any distress so made, it shall be lawful for such person to cause such distress to be appraised by two or more sworn appraisers, and afterwards to sell the distress, and therewith to satisfy the rates so unpaid, and all the ex penses of keeping, appraising, and selling such distress, rendering the overplus (if any) to the said mas ter upon demand ; and if any dispute shall arise as to the amount of such rates, or of the charges occasioned by such distress, it shall be lawful for the person distraining to detain such distress until the amount of such rates and the charges of such distress shall be ascertained and determined by such justice upon application made to him for that purpose."—lt was re ferred to the standing orders of the Committee. Sir Augustus Clifford appeared at the bar, and sum moned the House to the House of Peers to hear the Royal Assent given to several Bills (for which see Lords' report). MAYNOOTH GRANT. Mr. EMERSON TENNENT presented petitions from several places in Ireland against the grant to Maynooth. Mr. HINDLEY presented twelve petitions against the grant to Maynooth College, from the following places:— Inhabitants of Boxford, Suffolk; Wyke, York ; Havering Atte Bower, Essex; Protestant Dissenters, Kingston, Surrey ; Penegroes Whitechurch, Pembroke ; Ashby de-la-Zouch, Loughborough ; Calvanistic Methodists, Llanywniw, Denbigh ; Talynh, Brecon ; teachers of Sunday Schools, Castle-yard, Holland-street, Surrey ; and Frindsbury, Kent. LONDON AND YORK RAILWAY. An HoN. A1E3113E13., whose name we could not hear, presented a petition in favour of the London and York Railway. CLYDESDALE JUNCTION RAILWAY BILL. Mr. HOPE JOHNSTONE presented petitions, nu merously signed, from Glasgow, Hamilton, Rutherglen, Bothwell, and Blantyre, in favour of this measure. MR. BURKE AND THE MIDLAND RAILWAYS. The SPEAKER in reply to a question from Lord G. Somerset, stated that since this matter had been brought under his notice, he had taken an opportunity of looking into the rules of the House bearing upon the subject. He found that some years ago, Mr. speaker Abercromby framed a number of rules for re gulating the practice of Parliamentary agents, but the only one of any importance was the second rule, which required that all Par liamentary agents before they were permitted to practice should make a declaration whereby they agreed to observe all the rules and standing orders of the House. This rule, however, was not sufficiently stringent, and he had, therefore, framed a rule making every Parliamentary agent personally responsible to the House for the due observance of the standing and ses sional orders. Lord G. SOMERSET said, under those circumstances be was not inclined to persist in his motion respecting an act of negligence lately committed by a Parlia mentary agent. RAILWAYS. precise motion on the subject of the charges for fares on railways. The amendment having been withdrawn, the resolu dolt was agreed to. NOTICES OF MOTION—AUSTRALIAN FLOUR. Mr. MUTT gave notice that he would, on this day fortnight, move a resolution to the effect that it was ex pedient to admit wheat flour free in this country fr,,m Australia on the sane terms as it was admitted from Canada. TOBACCO—ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOU:!E FOR THE WHITSUN HOLIDAYS. Mr. BLLWITT said that he had a motion for to-night, for a Bill to repeal the Act which prevented the growth of tobacco in this country ; but, before he postponed it, he w ished to know from the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government whether he had made any arrangement for the adjournment of the House fur the Whitsun holidays ?—(Laughter.) Sir 11. PEEL said he was sorry to say he had not considered the subject; but, speaking upon the moment, he did not think, considering the state of the public business, that he could allow u longer time than from Friday to Wednesday or Thursday. Mr. BLEWITT then adjourned hi; motion to this day fortnight. CHELSEA COLLEGE. Colonel WOOD gave notice that on the Bth of May he would move an address to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty would be graciously pleased to order that the Chelsea College might be thrown open to the public, under such re gulations as might be deemed fit.—( Hear.) Captain LAYARD inquired of the Government when it was likely the Chinese batta would be paid ? Mr. S. HERBERT was understood to say that at the earliest opportunity steps would be taken respecting it. DOG STEALING BILL. Mr. LIDDELL moved for leave to bring in a Bill to prevent dog stealing, and said he would reserve any statement he had to make respecting it till a future occasion. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. RIO JANEIRO. Mr. M. GIBSON wished to knew if the Right Hon. Gen tleman at the head of the Government had any objection to lay before the House the correspondence which had taken place between the merchants of Rio Janeiro and her Majesty's Government, relative to the expiration of the treaty between this country and Brazil ? Sir ROBERT PEEL said, if the lion. Gentleman would repeat his question on Monday, he would give him an answer then. CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN CAPT. MEYNELL, M.P., AND MR. YOUNG, M.P. Sir CHARLES NAPIER said he held in his band a very curious correspondence which had appeared in the public newspapers—( Great laughter)—as having passed between Captain Meynell and Mr. Young.—( Renewed laughter.) 1 Here the Gallant Commodore read the correspondence, which has already appeared in all the newspapers, and which created continued laughter, and some cries of " Oh, oh. "1 COLLEGE OF SURGEONS. Colonel WOOD wished to ask the Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Wakley) whether he intended to fix an early day for his motion ? Mr. WA KLEY regretted that he could not possibly bring it on before Tuesday fortnight. REPEAL MEETINGS IN IRELAND. Colonel VERNER said he had a question to a-k the Right Hon. Gentleman her Majesty's Secretary of State for Ire land, and he did so because he had received requests to that effect from a large number of people in the south of Ireland. The question was—were the Executive Government in Ire land aware that a repeal demonstration was about to take place 'at Dundalk, on the first of May, at which Mr. O'Connell was to be present, and for which invitations had been sent through the country as far as Belfast, requesting people to attend. If so, he wished to know would the Government put a stop to this meeting in accordance with the law as laid down by the law officers of the Crown? He had to apologise to the Right Hon. Gentleman for not giving him notice, of his inten tion to ask this question ; but he had not had time to do so, as, between the time that would be occupied between that ne cessary for the notice and the asking of the question, the in tended meeting would take place. Sir T. FREMANTLE said he was not prepared to give an answer to the question of the Hon. and Gallant Member, as he had received no communication upon the subject. But with reference to what had passed in Ireland; he had no doubt his Excellency the Lord Lieutenant would take such necessary steps as might be required. Mr. HUME wished to ask the Right Hen. Baronet whether he was aware of a great monster meeting intended to be held in London very shortly, the object being to bring delegates from all parts of the country, in order to coerce the Members of that House ?—Laughter. ) The constituencies of every town, borough, and county, were called on to send up delegates on purpose to form a demonstration, with the view of coercing the House. He begged to ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether he had taken, or would take, any steps in consequence ? ( Great laughter.) Sir T. FREMANTLE rose amid shouts of laughter, but on finding that the question was directed to the Right Hen. Baronet at the head of the Government, he sat down again. Sir R. PEEL said, that not having received one of the cir culars of the intended meeting—( Laughter)—be was quite un able to say anything on the subject of the Hon. Member's question. He might say to the Hon. Member, however, that he did not feel much alarm in consequence.—(Laughter.) AYNOOT H. avow his determination to support that Church, and yet adopt a line of pc licy which would unquestionably lead to its speedy and utter destruction. The Right Hen. Baronet at the head of the Government said he introduced this measurefor the purpose of conciliating the Roman Catholics, but did not the representatives of the Roman Catholic Church ( Mr. Shell and others) denounce the Protestant Chnrch in Ireland as the most intolerable and monstrous of all anomalies, and that to conciliate the Irish Catholics it was quite clear the Pro testant Church establishment there must be overthrown. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government said last session that he would support the Established Church in Ire land which had been established by compact, but he added this important condition :—" Unless an overwhelming neces sity of public policy compels me to change my opinion." He (Mr. Colquhoun) did not think it would require a very strong pressure to induce this change in the Right Hon. Gentleman's sentiments.—( Hear, hear.) So that that Church for which they had so long, so perseveringly, and so unitedly struggled, in opposition, must, in the opinion of the Right Hon. Baronet, yield to the pressure of public opinion. The condition made by him was a plank wide enough for any Ministry on that side of the House to join with the Honourable Members for Sheffield and Montrose, and sweep away the Protestant Church in Ireland. He had heard with surprise and regret a portion of the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, and did not think it wise or prudent for a Minister of the Crown to utter—he spoke of the difficulties with which the Government of Ireland was beset—the combinations which existed there — and in two sentences after, alluded to " the threatening clouds on the other side of the Atlantic ;" and further, that he reflected with satisfaction that before the arrival of news of a hostile aspect from America, a message of peace had been sent to Ireland.— ( Hear, hear). If it were right to establish Maynooth, let them do it; but let him not attempt to fetter his judgment by such terror.—( Hoar, hear). Such language might suit the Conciliation Hail, but hardly became a British Minister. Nor was it at all suited to convince the Hou e of Commons. The French papers, in discussing the Maynooth Bill, said it A as a concession to Irish agitation. If there were differences with America or France. he felt sure that all parties in that House would unite in assisting the Government to take that course which became the honour, the interest, and the dignity of England. The Noble Lord, no doubt, was quite sure that he should be unworthy the confidence of a: great party, and un worthy that name which had never been stained by the impu tation of cowardice, if he came down to that House, and said that, thoursh he could not overcome the arguments and the rea soning of his Hon. Friend, pointing to the wars threatening in the east and west, he should appeal to their fears of the disasters they were about to encoun'er. The poorest labourer in the country would put on the garb of a soldier sooner than submit to it.—( Hear, hear.) He held in his hand a statement which was made in the Freeman's Journal, the organ of the Irish priesthood, and he found the language contained in it to be this 1—" The English yield (this valuable boon, no) this paltry civility, with an agony as ifshe were yielding her life. The con cession which the grant foreshadows has not been won by cringing, or by giving any servile gratitude for benefits which she has won herself." These were the expectations of political gratitude which they ought to entertain for the boon which they were now conferring, and this boon would lead immediately to further and much greater concessions. The Members for Newcastle and Edinburgh complained of the union of all classes of Protestant Dissenters on this subject, and the Hon. 'Mem ber for Sheffield told them, if they took twenty-six thousand pounds from the property of the Established Church in Ire land, it would put an end to their complaints, and assuage the Irish people. If the position taken by the Dissenters was only a mercenary one, their opposition could not be so heating or strenuous. The objections of the Dissenters to their giving anything to the Roman Cetholic establishment were these : They objected on two grounds; they objected to it on ac count of the voluntary principle, sad also on account of their disent on religious matters. The Hon. M ember for Dungarvon complained that the Church of Scotland had been made a free church. Let him tell the Honourable Gentleman the grounds on which that part of the Presbyterian Church became free. Was it not, because when they came to the House they refused them the supremacy they looked for, and yet they saw them giving to the Roman Catholic Church what they refused to the free church ? On these grounds they opposed the grant to Maynooth. Honourable Members complained of their dread of being ex' ravagant, but were they to pare down the feelings of hard-working„ honest Englishmen to their principles ? And were they to say to them that they should not come before the House with petitions expressing their feelings in whatever language they pleased ?—( Hear, hear.) They also complained of the speeches that were made at meetings to petition against the Maynooth grant ; but if they referred t o the proceedings at Covent Garden they might find Honourable Members at the other side of the House making sp eec h es in not the most mild or most temperate language.— ( Hear, hear.) He, himself was attacked for having taken the chair at one of those meeting?, but he did not think that he or any other chairman would be responsible for all that had been said at a public meeting. If so, they should give up public meetings altogether. They would not be deterred, he would tell the Hon. Member for Sheffield, by any lapse from principle on the part of the Government, from supporting their own sober convictions. When he heard the sketch given last night by the Hon. Member for Edinburgh, of the history of Ireland, he could not help thinking of one of those words by which Mr. O'Connell often was in the habit of appealing to the passions of his Irish auditors when he denominated the Irish opposed to him, and the English opposed to him, as " Saxons." And if they referred to the national songs, they would find that word " Saxon " occurring frequently in the songs which were at this day circulated in every part of Ireland. There could not be a doubt that the Saxons, as he called them, occupied Ire land by successive invasions, and planted their foot on Celtic soil; but the conduct of these foreign landlords was anything bet politic or wise; they kept down the Irish Celt by severe and cruel laws, inflicted on him harsh exactions, and took no pains in his social or moral improvement. And as for the Irish Church being a church fed with wealth, it was a church which was starved to absolute inanition up to the last fifty years, by he same selfishness of the Irish landed proprietors; but hen Mr. M. MILNES said he had the honour of presenting a petition from the University of Cambridge, in favour of the Government grant to Maynooth.—( Loud cheering, which continued for several minutes.) The Hon. Member was still on his legs, when Sir R. NGLIS rose amid loud cries of " Order, order," and great confusion. He said that the Hon. Member for Pontefract had misled the House by stating that the petition he had presented had emanated from the University. Had the fact been so, the petition would have been signed by the Chancellor, the Fellows, and other dignitaries of the Colleges, and the seal of the College would have been affixed to it. Such was not the case, and he felt hitnself justified in calling the attention of the House to the misnomer.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. M. MILNES said that perhaps, if the Right Hon. Baronet had allowed him to finish, he might then have known more about the petitioners. The petition was from Cam bridge, and it was signed by the bachelors and undergraduates of that University. The petitioners stated, that as a petition had been presented by the Right Hon. Baronet from the under graduates of Oxford against the grant, they felt it their duty to record their opinion in its favour. They thought that as there was no immediate prospect of the Irish Roman Catholics becoming proselytes to Protestantism, Christian duty impera tively called upon them to advance their moral and intellec tual regeneration by every means in their power. Mr. COLLETT presented several petitions from the Primi tive Methodists of Athlone, conscientiously objecting to all en dowments for religious purposes. Sir R. H. INGLIS presented petitions from various parts of the country against the grant to Maynooth. Mr. BOW,' ERIE presented similar petitions. Mr. C. BRUCE presented petitions from Elgin against the grant. Similar petitions were presented by Sir G. Grey, Mr. Kern ble (from Leicester), and other Hon. Members. Mr. HINDLEY presented various petitions from different parts of the country to the same effect. One he begged to call the attention of the House more particularly to. It was from the Dissenting Chapel meeting in West George-street, Glas gow, under the care of Dr. Wardlaw, and they, conscientiously refusing themselves all assistance from the State, refused to sanction any endowment to any other sect. They, however, rejoiced at the removal of all religious disabilities.—( Hear.) Mr. T. Duncombe, Dr. Bowring, and Sir J. Y. Buller pre sented petitions to the like effect. Mr. HAYTER presented a petition from a place in Buck inghamshire, signed by six clergymen of the English Church and by a great number of their parishioners, in favour of the grant.—( Hear, hear.) An HON MENBER presented four petitions from places in Ireland against the grant. Mr. Sharman Crawford, Mr. Ferrand, Mr. Grogan, Colonel Acton, Sir T. Arland, Colonel Wood, Mr. Colville, and Lord Rendlesham presented petitions from various places in England and Ireland, against the Maynooth grant. ADJOURNED DEBATE. Lord G. SOMERSET then moved that every Committee on a Railway Bill shall fix the tolls, and shall determine the maximum rates of charge for the conveyance of passengers (with a due amount of luggage) and of goods on such railway, and such rates of charge shall include the tolls, and the costs of locomotive power, and every other expense connected with the conveyance of passengers (with a due amount of luggage) and of goods upon such railway ; but if the Committee shall not deem it expedient to de termine such maximum rates of charge, a special report, explanatory of the grounds of their omitting so to do, shall be made to the Howse, which special report shall accompany the report of the Bill. Mr. LABOUCHERE said the subject which the No ble Lord had brought under the consideration of the House was one of great importance, and it was, in his opinion, high time for the House to limit the tolls and rates of charges on railways. Mr. BERNAL, who was almost inaudible in the gallery, was understood to say that some uniform practice ought to be adopted in the Railway Committees, otherwise the greatest confusion would occur, and when the session was about to close there would be no such thing as remedying it. Sir J. Y. BULLER defended the conduct of Mr. Burke, which had been unjustly censured. If he had been guilty of some trifling inadvertence, he at once owned it. He would willingly bear testimony to the high character of Mr. Berke. Sir W. HEATHCOTE likewise eulogised the general conduct of Mr. Burke, which he considered was en titled to respect and gratitude. His exertions had been of the greatest service in ensuring order and regularity. The O'CONOR DON said he concurred in the ob servations of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. There was a feeling amongst the Committee that no practitioner could discharge his duty with more credit and satisfaction than Mr. Burke.—(Hear, hear.) His conduct with regard to the clause alluded to ought certainly not to be characterised by a stronger expression than that of inadvertence. The slightest unfavourable impression did not remain in the minds of the Committee with regard to the conduct of Mr. Burke. Mr. GREENE entirely concurred in the testimony which had been given respecting Mr. Burke. Mr. HAWES said he wished to call the attention of the House to the resolution of the Noble Lord (Lord G. Somerset.) He did not think it was necessary to say a word more respecting the uprightness of Mr. Burke. It would be impossible for any person to say what should be the maximum rate for passengers and gx,ds. The company, and the company alone, could furnish the necessary information on that point. The Hon. Member for Devonport had said that this was a clause which should be inserted in order to remedy the defects complained of ; but he (Hr. Hawes) did not think it would be possible for this House to frame _ . - . On the order of the day being read for resuming the debate on Mr. Ward's motion, Mr. COLQUHOUN said the Hon. Member for Sheffield had on the previous night quoted several extracts of speeches made by him five years ago, calling on him to retract or defend them. He thought it would be inexcusable to occupy the time of the House in entering into a defence of those extracts. There were many sentiments in those speeches which a more mature reason had induced him to qualify.—( Hear, hear.) He alone should not be excluded from the privilege of altering his opinions—( Hear, hear)—when that alteration was derived from communication with men of various opinions —communi cations which mitigated those sentiments and showed him to regard with more toleration the opinions of others.—( Hear. ) But as to the historical facts mentioned by him and denied by the Hon. Gentleman, he would be ashamed to occupy the time of the House for one instant in supporting, but would put into the hands of that Hon. Member the authorities from which he derived them, one being a volume of the " Life of Wolf Tone,' the agent to the Roman Catholics of Ireland, and who then occupied the same position as Mr. O'Connell now did—(Cries of " No, no," from the Opposition)—at all events who was a high authority in questions relating to his own country.— ( Cries of " No," and laughter from the same quarter.) The other volume was the " Life of M. M'Nevin,'' who, after heleft the country, recorded the facts of which he was cognizant. I would be trifling with the time of the Hou• e on a great ques tion like the present, which so deeply affected the destiny and fu ture condition of Ireland, to occupy himself in defending the opi nions of one cf so little weight as himself. He agreed in the opinion expressed by the Hon. Member for Sheffield, that the question o the Irish Church, though not immediately apart of the Maynooth Bill, was closely connected with it, and that in discussing the one it would be right to refer to the other. It was remarkable inlthis debate how timid and delicate the members of the Govern ment were in touching upon the endowment of the Irish Catholic Church ; it was to them like a red-hot bar, which every Mem ber of the Treasury Bench was afraid to touch, lest he should set the thread of his arguments on fire. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, it was said, proved to demonstration that there was no principle in the Bill; and the Chancellor of the Exchequer said that the question of esta blishing a Roman Catholic Church in Ireland was raised from lack of argument against the measure, and that the question of its endowment by the State was in " the dark future." The Right Hon. Gentleman, in the interval of his financial calcu • lations, must have been reading Milton, for it could only have aNseared dark from excessive light, for a more perfect view of the future could not well have been pres nted than that with which the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government favoured the House. There was no Roman Catholic who would not agree that the principle they were now discussing was the establishing of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland. The Right. Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government said he had no religious objection to the endowment of the Roman Catholic Church.—( Hear, hear.) The only question was whether the Roman Catholic Church would accept of such en dowment.—( Hear, hear.) He did not know what were the feelings of the Roman Catholic priests ; but if they offered to any set of men half a million of money, paid regularly frnm the Treasury, he would like to know who would refuse it ? The Catholic priests would put their voluntary theory in one pocket, speech h t he of o t t h h e e r .R Right H t w o n a . s c G e r e t n a t i l n e . m a nH the e had e l r i e s t a e n n d ed th t e o m th e e ne s y pe i tary of State for the Home Department with admiration for its ability. That Right Hon. Baronet had made great sacrifices, and he did not believe that any necet.sity, however pressing, would induce him to hide his convictions on such moment ous questions ; lie believed in his sincerity, but he very much questioned his sagacity. He was surprised that any man of in tellect could contemplate the establishment of the Roman Ca tholic Church in Ireland, and believe he could maintain the Protestant Church there for five years, after such an establish ment. Besides the establishment of two State Churches would be a monstrous anomaly; for instead of fulfilling the end for which they ought to be designed, they would be sources of discard,rach ; n imm ora li ty , an d content i on. If t h ey wou ld esta bli s h a Catholicßto pay u Church ot o they theirey must extinguish the Protestant Church for it was quite so, o c 6 e o r certain and n 3, e t a h r e . English people would l.m never consent pockets l a large e yd have wou sum for but the endowment of th e Catholic, for the endowment of the l Protestant Churche s , 6 one established Church there, be that which it would. It w as inconsistent in his Ri g ht H on. Friend (Sir J. Graham) to any clause by which to fix the maximum rate of charges. The House had not the power to do so, for the public were of necessity in the hands of the railway companies in this respect. For instance, what might be a fair rate of charge on a locomotive line might not be fair upon an atmospheric line; and was this House, then, prepared to say that they could fix the maximum rate of charges for each ? It would be a most arbitrary act to do so, and he would most decidedly divide the House upon any such clause—he (kernel it so impolitic—though he might not-have the slightest chance of success. Sir GEO. CLERK said he perfectly concurred with the Hon. Member that it would be a great absurdity t attempt to fix the maximum rate of charges ; but it would be competent for the House to fix the rate of charges to be made as tolls. However, he begged to assure the Honourable Member that in one of the Bills sent before the Committee, the promoters of the Bill themselves had voluntarily introduced a clause by which they proposed to fix the maximum rate of charge. Mr. GISBORNE hoped the House would not place any degree of confidence either in that or any other Bill that should contain such a proposition. Mr. JAMES STUART WORTLEY believed that the compensation that had been given was a real and not a temporary one. He considered that the course that had been pursued with respect to this subject was one that ought to be well considered.—(Hear.) Canals would be no longer able to compete with rail ways—the shareholders in them would be ruined by the low rate at which the latter conveyed luggage In this respect, he cordially agreed with the Noble Lord, but thought the resolution ought to be more stringent. He would likewise call the attention of the Noble Lord to the high rate of tolls, as also to the high rote of charge on the inter mediate stages on railroads, and to the convenience of having additional stations. The public, by the high rate of changes on intermediate stations were in a worse condition than before railways were established. Mr. PAKINGTON said there were several railways carrying goods at so low a rate of charge as to render it impossible for it to be remunerative. Those companies made up the loss by imposing a higher rate of charge on passengers than they would have been otherwise called upon to pay. This was most unjust towards the canal t b h e e e therefore, f p ( companies,)rrop, proposed that some amendment unfair to all the public. He thought, e o u n m gdh e mt SOMERSETeton regulation ew hoped o cpohep dt ed such as that which had agree Lon t i o (i t h . ha t d he be hl e o n u p se ro w po o s u e l ( d i, not tile only effect of which would be to keep up the rate of charge on all description of passengers, and all descrip tion of goods. Mr. S ON ER supported the amendment, and stated that if the motion of the N o bl e Lord was acceded to, it would be injurious, as it would tend to suppress corn petition. Mr. MORRISON thought it would be advisable to adopt the plan which was adopted with regard to the French railways. When the fares were lowered there, the companies were not permitted to raise them until twelve months had elapsed. Sir G. GREY complained that proper notice had not been given of the motion. After a few words from Mr. S. WORTLEY and Mr. STANSFIELD, Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET gave notice that it was hie intention, on Monday neat, to bring forward a came a better age, that awoke the people to a consciousness of their duties, and the Church then returned from the position to which it had fallen, until it came at last to a more healthy and better condition, which was within the last fifty years. They could not have a better link between them and the people at this time, than the labours of men of zeal, men of education, and men of charity, discharging their benevolent duties in the heart of a wild and rude nation. He had seen an example of this when he visited the residence of his Hon. Friend the Member for Bandon, in the neighbourhood of which place Roman Catholics were scattered through a very wide district. He recollected accompanying a man who was at present a dignitary of the Irish Church, and who was then rather advanced in years, having spent a long life and buried great talents in an obscure and charitable object, through these districts, and he could not forget how he was received by those very Roman Catholics ; the farmer desisted from his labour, the cottage was opened, and the parent and child,whom he had relieved from distress, rose to receive him, and he saw that there was one great catholicity of b enevo l ence an d ki n d ness the eat population triumphant over all, welding togeth er di scor d an t cree d s an d best daystha t discordant feelings in on e bon d of true and lasting attachment. If ever they did away with that Church , and neglected those smuernro,atnhdeedtrutebsettni,inktbbeentwbeeen them and ay of Ireland's prospeaity were numbered. On these grounds he would for ever defend the maintenance of the Irish Church, and should give to the motion of the Hon. Member for Shefs Feld the most strenuous opposition. Mr. BATESON said that he, as an Irish Protestant and a member of the Established Church of that country, felt him self compelled, by a sense of duty, to raise his feeble voice against the monstrous and iniquitous measure proposed by the Hon. Member for Sheffield. He felt opposed to it on the grounds of its great injustice. He thought that he (Mr. Bate-on) had as much right to come down to the House and propose that the property of the Right Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Ward) should be devoted to the Roman Catholic clergy for educational purpo ses House, as he was pledged to keep the compact un touched and inviolate. He hoped, however, that this liberality would not be one-sided, and he trusted that the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government would take into his consideration the claims of the Unitarians of Ulster, and would render them as much pecuniary assistance as would en.able them to carry out their objects. They were about to endow Maynooth College liberally, and already they had passed the Charitable Bequests Act. And why did they do all this, but on the shallow. pretence of conciliation ? But what had been the result of this conciliation? Why, the demards of the Roman Catholics had been increased, and the Hon. :Wernher for Dungarvon went so far as to , they sa • would not be sa isfied until they were placed on a footing with the Pro testants of Trinity, College. The Hou se h a d been told that the root of all evil wa s the Protest an t Ch urc h . N ow, as a Protestant landlord and a Protestant soldier, he repudiated al! those assertions. But let any Hon. Alember in that House get up and tell him, from the bottom of his heart, that the Protestant Church was either a curse or an injury to Ireland. No, he defied any Hon. Member to prove anything of the sort. The Church, instead of being a curse, was a great benefit arid blessing to Ireland. Mr. BARING was anxious to explain, in a few words, the vote he was about to give on the present occasion, and he was anxious that the House should bear with him for a few mo ments while he stated the grounds upon which he was pre pared to vote with the Right lion. Baronet opposite, and op pose the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield. He felt compelled to address the House, because his Right Hun. Friend the Nlember for Edinburgh. in his able speech last night, stated that the House was divided on this question into two parties—namely, those who were prepared to vote with his Hon. Friend, and those who were ready to vote against him, and to say that the property of the Irish• Church should be maintained inviolate. Now, although he should vote against the motion of his Honourable Friend, he was not prepared to be included in the latter category. He did not consider that by supporting the Bill as it now stood he was precluded hereafter from going into its principle, and the pr inciple upon which Irish the Church ought to be maintained. He believed the Bill of the Government would prove a great boon and benefit to Ireland, and he was therefore earnestly desirous that it should, in its present form, be carried into effect, and in doing so he did not think he was opposing either his former opinions or principles. He was not bound to support an amendment brought forward by a Member of his own party when he thought it was to injure the practical course which he wished to pursue. His Hon. Friend some years ago proposed that they s hould withdraw all support from both E s t a bli s h men ts in Ireland. That was the opinion of his Hon. Friend three years ago, and whether he re tained that opinion still, of crnirse, he (Mr. Baring) could not say. Well, two years ago he wished to withdraw all support from the two establishments. ay the Church Mr. WARD—No ; what I said was, "If you P pay all or pay none." Mr. BARING continued—At all events he was correct in the sense of his Hon. Friend, though not in the particular expression; but be that as it might, he himself believed the Bill to be a practical proposition, likely to produce great benefit in Ireland, and he thought the course of a practical man ought to be rather to support what was in reality a good measure, than support a resolution which, however wise it might be, was at all events very ill-timed. Entertaining these views, he was not prepared to throw any difficulty in the way of the Govern ment measure. Everybody t.f common sense then must know that they could not pass the Bill into a l aw if they were to affix to it the proposal of his Hon. Friend the Member for Shef field. His Honourable Friend, however, with perfect f. ankness declared that he did not bring forward his measure to obstruct the principle of the Bill, but for the sake of introduc ing arid laying down a great principle. His Hon. Friend said this was the fi rs t step taken in a course which would hereafter have to be more extensively carried out; and it was, therefore, advisable that they should sketch out the principles by which they were always to be guided in that course. But did his Hon. Friend tell him what those great principles were? If there was any advantage to be obtained in making these princi ples known to the people of Engls.nd, they should at any rate make them intelligible and distinct. He could not understand what the parti cu l ar principles were which his Honour able Friend wi s h e d to enunciate in his amendment.— ( Hear.) If the endowment of the Catholic Church was to be considered as the principle, what did it matter whether it were endowed from the Consolidated Fund or from the funds of the Established Church ? That question might be reserved for after consideration. If it was expedient to state some principle to the people of England, by which they would hereafter he guided, of course it was no less expedient that they should state that principle clearly and distinctly, but he confessed the present was not the most favourable period for laying those principles down. He was not surprised at the difference of opinion which reigned on his own side of the House. It was one of the great difficulties of legislating on such a subject. Was it then advisable to lay down at that moment, and while the House was in this state CITE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY MORNING, APRIL 25 1845. of indecision of principle, what should hereafter determine the course they were to pursue I Were not the difficulties'already sufficiently incumbering, without calling upon them to lay down theprinciples which should hereafter guide them upon this ques tion? Well, then, let them deal with the evils as they at pre sent found them, t,nd not state the principles to the people of England which they might hereafter find it necessary to withdraw from. If this measure were granted, the peace and satisfaction that would be certain to follow it in Ireland, would more than repay this country for a much greater concession.--( Hear. ) He had no apprehension that it a ould not pass, for the rearand only feeling of hostility against it as a Roman Catholic mea sure was exhibited Kinly by the Protestant Dissenters. lint, he would ask, was it not likely that other feeli• gs of hostility would be raised to i , if this motion were persevered in? He feared that Hon. Membeis on his side of the House were not sufficiently sensible of the apprehension that such was likely to occur. He did not en tertain those conscientious objections to the grant that others did ; on the contrary, he did think, as a Protestant, that it would be for the advantage of the Protestant Church to have its present temporalities reconsidered, and those scandals—(he did not say it offensively)—of which so much had been said of it, removed.—( Hear, hear.) He did believe it would be a great blessing to Ireland if the Government endowed the Ro man Catholic Church, provided it was not done in such a way as to make either the people or the clergy feel that that grant had placed them either in a degraded or servile position. ( Hear, hear.) He believed that this grant would not only be' a blessing to Ireland, but an act of policy by this country, and one worthy of the cause of Christianity.--( Hear, hear.) He was well aware that there were very many Protestants who were firm supporters of their religion, but were ready to admit that the Establishment had its abuses, and that they ought to he removed; yet he doubted very much if the taking away of the funds of one establishment to support another would be likely to give satisfaction.—(Hear, bear.) One thing was quite clear, and that was, that the English as well as the Irish people felt deeply upon this question ; and, therefore, he would say, that if the Government could give this boon to Ireland without giving dissatisfaction to England, he would be prepared to support it.—( Cheers. ) Mr. BERNAL said he regretted that he felt himself called upon to oppose the views of his Right Hon. Friend who had just sat down, and in doing so he should do him the justice to say that he had expressed his sentiments upon this question, that evening, in that bold, upright, and comprehensive manner, that did him honour, and showed that he was incapable of utter. ing any sentiment that he did not feel the truth and justice of in his heart.—(Hear, hear.) But the reasons alleged and the arguments steed by his Right Hon. Friend, for the vote he in tended to give, were not satisfactory to him, nor were they such as would deter him (Mr. Bernal) from giving his support to his Hon. Friend Mr. Ward's motion. He would not enter upon any long argument, in addition to those adduced by his Hon. Friend, in support of hismotion ; but he would endeavour to confine himself as . much as passible to the merit., of the motion itself.—( Hear, Hear.) His Honourable Friend had said that the present Parliament should not do any act by which to fetter the acts of future legislation ; but how did he propose to remove the difficulty ? Did the Hon. Member suppose that the proposition of the Right lion. Baronet was such a one as could not be disturbed hereafter? He (Mr. Bernal) would contend for it, that there were inhe rent difficulties in the way of legislating effectively upon this subject, which would always embarrass it. —( Hrar, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend had said that in legislating upon this question, regard should be had to the opinions of the people of England; but, at the same time, it should not be forgotten that they should also legislate conscientiously, and in such a manner as they conceived they were bound as legislators to do. —( Hear, hear.) He was not one'of those who had bound him self to that shadow of a party, or that ghost of a section— ( Laughter)—called the Irish Church party.—( Hear, hear. ) But, at the same time, he never would be one to lend himself to what was called the destruction of the Irish Church.— ( Hear, hear.) But when he had heard Hon. Members in that House declare, in the course of this debate, that at the time of the Union a bond was entered into, by which the Irish Church Establishment was to be held hence forth inviolable, he would ask what had they not already done in regard to that establishment?—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Had they not since considerably narrowed the whole of the Ecclesiastical Establishment in Ireland?—( Hear, hear.) Had they not dealt summarily with the tithe question ? —( Hear, hear.) If so, then, he would say, they should now, once and for ever, abandon this fanciful condition. —(Cheers. ) He would say, if they meant to act in this same way for the future, there was nothing in the history of the past to render the pursuit of such a course inconsistent.—( Hear, hear.) He had heard the Hon. Member for Newcastle declare that he was inviolably attached to the Church Establishment, both from principle and ss a matter of State policy. He (Mr. Bernal) regretted that the Hon. Member was not in his place, or he would be ready to answer him..—( Hear, hear.) He had also heard other Hon. Members make use of language in reference to this question, that was not very creditable.—( Hear, hear.) He had heard of such expressions as the " No Popery" cry, and Popish domination and ascendancy, and that the Catholics were treasonable subjects to the Qeeen and Constitution; but he would say he held such language in the greatest detestation, and he repudiated it.—( Cheers.) Ten years ago he heard similar language used, when the Houses of Parliament were burnt, and therefore he would hold no alli mice with such persons, as it would be impossible for such to conduct the discussions of that House in that calmness of tone and temper by which they should be regulated.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) He did not think the motion of the Hon. Mem ber for Sheffield would remove the difficulty that lay in the way of this question ; but it would tend to soften it down ; but the moment the present Government put forward this grant in the shape of a Bill, then indeed it became an endowment of the College of Maynooth.—( Hear, hear.) He had seen by some of the papers that certain persons supported this measure because it would have the effect, they said, of increasing Protestantism in Ireland if once the priests were well educated. —( Laughter. ) He would like to know, from the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), why, if this measure had been deemed so necessary for Ireland, it had not been granted ten years ago? The Right Hon. Baronet had stated that he made the concession because he feared war was impending ; and that, he (Mr. Bernal) should say, was, at the very least, an indiscreet speech, for the Right Hon. Baronet had, no right to propose the measuie at all, if he did not intend it as a beneficial measure. This question had been reiterated in the ears of the House usque ad nauseum, and it would be repeated continually even' if the Speaker should live to the age of Methuselah.—(Loud laughter.) He (Mr. Bernal) contended that the state of things at present existing in Ireland could not continue. If they wished to maintain it, they mu.t do so by means of brute force, and not by argument. He thought it was possible for two establishments to exist together in Ireland, but not on the same ground as they did at present. In parts of Rhenish Germany the Protestants and Catholics lived together in the utmost harmony. In parts of Switzerland aid Germany, it was a frequent thing for the Pro testants to use the temple of worship in the morning, and the Catholics in the evening. It had beers said the Catho lics of Ireland wished for the destruction of the Established Church in Ireland. He believed that no such wish existed. He believed that many of the Catholic Members of that House would not desire to see the Established Church in Ireland broken up. He (Mr. Bernal) would support the measure conscientiously, and fearless of the result. He believed it would be a beneficial measure, and therefore nothing should deter him from supporting it. Captain GLADSTONE said he wished to speak with all due respect of those gentlemen who, from the place he repre sented, had petitioned the House against this grant He be lieved them to be actuated by conscientious motives ; but, having made up his mind to support the grant to Mavnooth, he could not support the prayer of those individuals. He was not ashamed to confess that he had felt considerable difficulty in coming to a conclusion on this question. He did not mean to say so far as regarded the mere question of an increase of the grant to Maynooth, for as to the necessity of that he had made trp.his mind; and he thought that the present measure ought not to be considered in that light alone. His convic tion was, that the increased grant was absolutely necessary. He had himself visited Maynooth, and he could confirm the statement which had been made by his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government, that it was in a disgraceful state, and resembled a deserted barrack more than anything else. They had heard the declarations of many who had been con nected with this institution that it was not commodious. He believed that the present state of Maynooth was disgraceful and not creditable to its connection with the State, and that some change ought to take place. As far as regarded the reli gious part of this question, he would say that he had the strongest feeling for the Protestant religion, and he had, he trusted, an equal respect for the religion of his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen. There were those who objected to this grant, believing it to be dangerous to the Church, and to the cause of Protestantism. He confessed that he could not bring himself to believe that this would be the case. If the effect of this measure should be to give a more liberal education to those who were hereafter to become the priests of Ireland—if it were to give an increase of comfort to them during their stay at Maynooth, be believed that it would be beneficial to the country, and when those individuals left the College of Maynooth, they would not forget the source from which they had obtained such education and such com forts. It was generally known, that the feelings with which the students at Maynooth left that College were not the most favourable to the general peace and welfare of the country. During his visit to the College of Maynooth—and here he wished to bear his testimony to the courtesy and kindness evinced by the Rev. President of that institution—during his visit to that College he put this question to the President, "Suppose a large and more liberal endowment were made to the College of Maynooth, do you think the effect of it would be to in duce the higher classes of the Roman Catholics to send their sons there for the purpose of becoming priests?" and the an swer to that question had surprised him. The answer was, " The higher classes do not exist"—he meant of course that they did not exist in sufficient numbers to fill up the priesthood of Ireland. He (Captain Gladstone) supported the grant, be cause he thought it would be beneficial to 1. eland ; bot he felt perfectly at liberty hereafter to vote against any endow ment. He thought the measure had been brought forward at a proper time, and in a proper spirit. He did not believe it had been brought forward through fear, but that it had b een pro po.-ed simply to benefit Ireland. But while he said this he would contend for the supremacy of the Protestant Church in Ireland. He conceived that a prescription of 300 years was enough to establish that supremacy, and should it ever be attacked it would be found that the motto of its supporters was still no surrendoe Lord HOWICK said he agreed to a great extent in what had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Ports mouth (Mr. Baring). He certainly did not concur with him in his concluding observation, but he did agree with him that the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield was not submitted to the House in a convenient form, or on a con venient occasion.—( Hear, hear.) He thought the occasion inconvenient, because undoubtedly it interfered with the pro gress of a Bill, to which he, for one, was most anxious to give the best support he was able. He thought it more inconve nient, because, while the question which his Hon. Friend wished to raise by his motion was the great and important ques tion whether the whole of the arrangements of the Irish Church ought to be remodelled or not, he was of opinion that that question was badly raised upon the appropriation of so comparatively small a sum as 26,i)001. That sum was far too small a practical proposition to bring forward as a test of so great a principle, but, at the same time, as it seemed to be the wish of Gentlemen on both sides of the House, that this question should be considered as clearly in tended to decide the point of whether they were to maintain, unaltered, as at present appropriated, the property of the Esta blished Church of Ireland or whether some arrangement was to be considered—as it was the feeling on both sides of the House, that this great question was to be so considered, and that the division upon it was to be taken as the test of their views upon it, he was willing so to consider it. Though he felt on the present occasion very unequal to the task of address ing the House upon this subject, yet, as it was one upon which, ever since his entrance into public lie, he took so deep an in terest, upon which he entertained opinions so strong, which every year's experience only served to strengthen more and more, he could not allow this debate to come to a close without expressing that opinion however inadequate he might be to do so. He re garded the question of the Irish Church in the same light as his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh (Mr. Macaulay.) In his unanswerable speech upon the subject last night, he entirely concurred. He always regarded the maintenance of the Irish Church upon its present footing as contrary to every principle of justice and of policy.—( Hear, hear.) He believed in his conscience that the maintenance of that Church had been the great obstacle to the spread of the Protestant religion in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He was so persuaded of the truth of the great principles of reli gion, that he firmly believed if they were given fair play—if they were not weighed down by the. injustice of that system with whieh they were united, they must in the course of three centuries have taken root and flourished on the soil of Ireland as they had done in other countries.—( Hear.) He believed that the Irish Church was the source of that misgovernment and oppression under which Irelt.nd had, for three centuries snffered.—( Hear, hear.) That was the view which he took of the subject, and it was one which he never concealed. When he was in the Government, and was a party to the appropriation clause, he never disguised the fact, that the arguments on which he supported that proposition were argu ments, if pushed to their legitimate conclusion, would have car ried him farther than the clause then proposed.—( Hear. ) He never disguised that such was the effect of those princi- pies, and if 'he contended for a proposition that fell far short of them, he did so only because he believed that at the time the Roman Catholics of Ireland were prepared to accept far less than in justice they were entitled to demand.—(Hear, hear.) In the year 18.38, when they consented to pass the Tithe Bill without the appropriation clause, he did not conceal the fact that he acquiesced in that de termination of •he Government to which he then belonged, not because healtered his opinion of the justice of that clause, but because he felt that the time at which such a compromise might be accepted had gone by. The Right Hon. Baronet opposite might remember that that, and that only, was the ground on which he consented to be a party to the bringing forward of the Tithe Bill, without the appropriation clause. And he did not value that clause F o much for its intrinsic value as for bring a tender of part of the just claims of the Roman Catholics ; and, when originally proposed, the Catholics were willing to accept , it as a 'concession, not so much to their interests as io their feelings and their sen e of honour, which were wounded by the existing arrangements. But in IBS it was obvious to him, from the protracted contests on the subject of the appropriation clause, that the time must come when compromise being no longer accept able, a larger and more difficult question must come under discussion. He did not raise the question then, because those most interested in it did not seem to think it an occasion on which it could be advantageously brought forward. But he foresaw that the question would be brought forward; and he never concealed, being then in office, his views on a matter in which he felt that justice required it should be determined. He referre. - 1 to those things merely to show that when the Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Graham) spoke last night of Government on his side of the House being prepared to go farther now than formerly, he did not do them justice, at least he d'd not do it to him (Lord Howick ). He would bear him ( Lord Howick) witness that his opinions on this subject had been frankly avowed ; and that he supported those opinions to the utmost of his power.—( Hear, hear.) After having be fore addressed the House on the subject now before it, and after the speech of his Right Hon. Friend, the Member for Edinburgh, he should not attempt new to point nut all the defects of the existing arrangements of the Irish Church. He wished rather to go at once to the practical question as to how the anomaly and injustice of those arrangements were to be met. He had no hesitation in stating his opinion on that pint. More than two years ago he stated that the time was gone by when a compromise would be of use. He firmly believed that if they were contented to accept: the appropriation clause of 1835, they might, for their time at least, maintain without serious inconvenience the Protestant Established Church of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) But they triumphed in their resist ance to that compromise, and the consequence was that they now brought about a state of things, in which he thought a compromise was no longer practicable. He believed that they must now do full justice to the people of Ireland.—(Cheers.) It was no use any longer to palter with the question. For him self, he would never again be a party to an incomplete and in adequate measure of reform—he would never disturb the country by proposing a measure which did not go to the root of the evil.—(Hear, hear.) When he said " the root of the evil," what he meant was, that they must deal on equal terms with Catholics and Protestants.— ( Cheers.) There must be no distinction—no violent a,sump tion of correctness of doctrine and prior claims to the regard of the State on the part of the Protestants.— (Hear, hear, and cheers.) Catholic and Protestant interests must in his opinion be considered and dealt with alike.—(Cheers.) That was not the time for discussing the proper mode of doing so, but he would tell them, because he wished to have no concealment on the subject, what, in the present state of his ieformation, appeared to him to be the best mode in which the subject should be dealt with. In the first place, he would save all existing interests.—(Hear, hear.) He would not in any way interfere with those who now enjoyed incomes from the Irish Chinch revenues— ( Hear, hear)—and, at present, he thought they were bound to draw on the Consolidated Fund of this country for the sup port of the Roman Catholic Church. Under any other circum stances this might be injustice, but he had the strongest opi nion that Ireland herself ought to provide for the religious in struction of the Irish people, as England provided for the in. struction of the English people, and Scotland provided for the instruction of the Scotch 'people.- 7 ( Hear, hear.) As a permanent arrangement, he held that it would be what justice required, and they had no right to call on the English people, er on the Scottish people, to contribute to the religious instruction of the people of Ireland.—( Hear, hear. ) But as a temporary arrangement the case in his opinion was different—he thought it was the fault of the English themselves that Ireland was not in a situation at once to provide for the religions instruction or the Roman Catholics from the Church property of Ireland. It was the prejudices prevailing in this country which prevented a measure from being adopted by which a considerable fund would be already at their disposal. —( Hear, hear.) If the prejudices of the English and Scotch people had not interposed, the appropriation clause would have been carried in 1835 ; and not only that, but if these prejudices had not interfered—if they had been able to deal with the application of the pro perty of the Irish Church as reason and common sense dic tated—his opinion was, that they would not be compelled to fritter away and waste that property as they had been.—.( Hear, hear.) They scandalously wasted that property—first, by the arrangements of 1533, with refererce to bishops' lands. If tl.e property of the Irish Church bad not been devoted to unpopular purposes—if it had not been applied to objects which the general sense of the people of Ireland was against, his opinion was that they could not have so wasted that pro perty—that if the property of the Irish Church was devoted to the instru-tion of the great body of the people, neither Parliament nor the people of Ireland themselves would have consented to the arrangements made with regard to the bishops' lands.—( Hear, hear.) In like manner it was an unjust application of the revenues of the Irish Church which compelled them in 1833 to consent to a sacrifice of 25 per cent. of that property. As, therefore, that mistake was forced on Parliament by the prejudices—he admitted tl.e honest prejudices—of the people of England and Scotland. the cause of that mistake might fairly fall on those who committed it; and the people of England and Scotland ought to pay for a time a' provision for the Catholic Church ; but ultimately, he said, that that provision ought to be supplied by Ireland her self. If he had to deal with the subject, he would say, let the whole property of the Irish Church be vested in the hands of commissioners. Let them pay the incomes of existing incumbents, and as those interests fell in, the first charge on the funds would be to make due provision for the Catholic clergy—he said the first charge, because he knew that on his side of the House, as well as on the other, it had been the custom to say, that the surplus ought to go to the Roman Catholics. He repudiated that notion as altoeether unjust, and said that the Catholics had, in every point oeview, the first claim on the funds. They were tl.e majority—they were the poorest, and the property was originally set apart for the maintenance of their Church. Upon another ground they had also a just claim. He thought it was for the national interest that the Roman Catholic clergy should be provided for, precisely as he thought it for the interest of England that the clergy of England should have an independent provision, without trusting to the contributions of their flocks.—( Hear, hear.) He thought it of the most essential importance that the clergy of the great body of the Irish people should have in comes independent of the caprice of those whom they taught. He was most distinctly opposed to what was called the voluntary principle. He was utterly unable to understand the views of those who adopted that policy. Gentlemen upon both sides of the House agreed that the State ought to interfere in support of the education of the people, and that it ought not to be trusted merely to the voluntary efforts of individuals. Large grants were made for education in England, in Ireland, and in Scotland ; and he regretted that the unfortunate sectarian feelings which prevailed between Churchmen and Dissen•ers prevented them from carrying out as far as they might the be nefits of education, the means of which the State was willing to provide. If education, then, ought not to be trusted to the voluntary efforts of individuals, the case was mneh stronger against leaving the religious education of the people to the support of voluntary contributions of indi viduals. Why, those who were the least sensible of the wants of religion, were the very persons to whom the advantages of religion were of the most importance, and they were the per sons who would be the least inclined to contribute to its sup port...--(“ Hear, hear," from the Chancellor of the Exche quer.) He was glad to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman cheer that. If the Hon. Gentleman concurred with him in that fealeig—if they felt the necessity of providing religious in struction for the people, let him (Lord Howick) ask them in what shape it ought to be provided ? Was it in the shape in which it would be useless, or in a shape in which it would be acceptable?—( Hear, hear.) Was it for practical purposes they meant to provide it? If so, they ought. to snpply that religious education in a form in which it ss ould be most acceptable to the people of Ireland.—( Hear. ) If they thought that religious education was of such im portance, how could they justify themselves in not affording it in a manner in which it would be most acceptable? He was so persuaded of the necessity of such a proposition, that he was ready to find means for it from asy source— he was ready to take the money, in the first in stance, from the Consolidated Fund, or from any other fund, for he felt that with regard to the Catholic population of Ire land, it was absolutely necessary to provide for the religious instruction of that country. Why should they compel the peasantry of the must destitute and worst taught country in the world to find the funds for the payment of the religious in struction they received, when there was a magnificent national endowment which he said was theirs by right ? To do that was the most flagrant violation of justice which England had ever been guilty of.—( Hear, hear.) But if they provided in the first instance for the Catholics, he was perfectly willing also to provide for the Protestants. He was quite willing to meet the assertion, that the Protestant Church was inadequate to its purposes, upon higher and nobler grounds than any that had been alleged. He thought that the property of Ireland should be taxed for the purposes of this Bill, in the amount in which it was relieved in 1838.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that there might be obtained a fund which ; wou'd meet all the exigencies of the case which had been so ; strongly put forward, and he concurred with those who had . given it its due prominence. But he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, was he really serious ?—(Cheers. ) Did he really mean to say, that if the Bill were frankly and faithfully proposed to the House, as a measure to satisfy the Irish people, it would be refused?---(Cheers.) Sir R. PEEL—No.—(Cheers.) . Lord HOWICK agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet. He ; was sure that nothing which might equalise the position of re ligions in Ireland would be rejected by the House.—( Cheers. ) He thought that all religions in Ireland should be placed upon an equality, and he was sure that the people of Ireland would never be contented with less.—(Cheers.) They had been told that a message of conciliation hail been sent to Ireland. What was the tenor of that message ?—( Cheers. ) In weighing the value of that offer, ►et us consider what it was worth.—( Hear, hear.) Let us only consider what are the real facts of the case. Let us consider that the poorest people in the world were obliged to support the richest priesthood, who preached doctrines—when they preached at all—quite opposite to the I opinion!, often hurtful to the feeiings, of those who supported them.—( Hear, hear.) The security and safety of the Established Church had always been made the pretext of oppression to Ireland.—(Cheers.) Was it any wonder that animosities should arise ? Would we, as Englishmen, say that there should he sustained in this country by all the powers of the pesple, and by all the rights of the constitution, a Catholic Church, which the people abhorred, and which was maintained by majorities of troops in one part of the empire, and majorities of votes in another. He would ask the House to allow him to come back to this question. How could Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite bring this measure forward unless they intended to go further ? Upon this part of the question he should suggest to the Hon. Baronet to consider what had been the effect of his speeches upon his own partisans.—(Cheers.) The Government, no doubt, had felt themselves in great diffi culties and embarrassments from the opposition of their present principles to those which they held when out of office. The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department had said that he would despise himself if he did not acknowledge that some expression of his was hasty and ill-advised. But he (Lord Howick) would ask, was it not injurious to the reputa• 'ion of the Right Hon. Gentleman himself? was it not 'v-'- hurtful to that great empire, of which so large e of conided to his care? was it not most hurtful to the dignity. that House, that upon a great question, in which E inary.ln_ a pottiOr terests were involved, a Minister of the Crown was placed I t e ; situation to held such language and to make such aracnchnentspi A few short months might bring the Right Ilon• B 3r° , he to the e istressirig alternative of asserting t r t l House that " I was wrong before, and not ight tow."—( Cheers. ) The Right flov er ;• e s Baronet had needlessly and wantonly renewed dif fi cual., which were passing away. If they have given to the shen te form and substance, it is not our faults. You (said the to Lori) fought with me inch by inch when I asked of you ea will, this much of concession to the Irish people. p° 1 5 f „ y e e. will, you carnet govern the people of Ireland as here tofore' - For my par', I shall support the amendment.—(Che A e rs 'i fee ece_ Mr. HAMILTON opposed the resolution. ea r e i ; t his had been made to the Blue-book, and he had also ma de re business to refer to that Blue-ho ,k, and he found tha t the ,b presentations which had been made of the state of the tort,' Church were entirely incorrect. He found, by that oa r r o as that there were . eighty-two benefices in Ireland. " ea a aware that a distinction was drawn between parishes te benefices—( Hear, hear)—but he found that a great dif fer - en ae existed between the representations of the Roman CatiGlo. Gen party and those who were opposed to them. The Hau l a t he tleman then went into a series of statements respect-4'pp number and the value of the benefices in the hands of t he at testant Irish clergy, in order to show that the means a t ie g the derived from the benefices and from the parishes possess e "; the Protestant clergy were only moderate remunerations I; tt e i n duties they had to perform. He believed that the proltotso of Christian truth was not to be effected by merely lisbe it means, and he thought that the success of the Irish Esti' Thee Church was not te be charged upon it as a eficience. had no mean for rendering the Irish Church Establis°,l"9. available for its purpose, and if they considered that this tablishment was to be answerable for its effects, he wou ld , ft what had been the effects of the Educational C o mmissio n ' fe d 'a was well known that the Educational Commission had -a ot iett effecting all that it desired, and he thought that the P,rt a sse of Christianity was not to be effected by any mere ly ", - ort eg means. They had heard a great deal of restitution u, that debate.—(Hear, hear.) But what was the case . the time the Irish Church obtained those endowments'tou. not in connexion with the Church of Rome. Until that the flexion had been formed, there had been no question _ k its t tt i to • Possession or the use of the revenues which were eta' had the Church. In the time of Henry 11., this c onneliu n t t he been formed, and had continued for three centuries' h at !. uot Reformation this connexion had been broken, and it a''tr until all hope had been gone and the allegiance of the m lationof Ireland was lost to Rome that the Pope bad sae& to establish any other Church. Much 11 ! d ite lsodl rr o l said of the injury offered to the Roman Catholics l oan but he thought that something should be made of tbe 'sot. offered to the feelings of the Protestant inhabitants of I r moo e be The Protestants had always been the main dependetel/ might call them the gat rison of the Government in Irv"-„rthe (Ironical cheers.) In 1835, at the request of the Minister ;e at' day, the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Goeern t die the Protestants of Ireland had readily and in a Ina tle ., /1- r ecel . solved a confederacy which was dear to them from 1 01113 „,' aea' lections, and in which their prejudices had been intel - a - 1111' He did not wish to speak harshly of the Members °, e ,," sr s jesty's Government, but he thought it was his dute "' to e , them of trifling with the feelings of their Irish fellow Pru te6 , l aold They would, in such a case, find that Protestants rho s league themselves with repealers_( Hear, hear )—o %, al e°, would be as bad, they would see party conflicts- A OO O naturally exulting in the triumph of their own Chu r on eee their own party, and the other bitterly regretting all c a ithel sions made to the rival party, and determined, as lt r o s - e . Or e could, to thwart any such intentions on the part ot •e f tee vernment.—(Cheers.) These would be the fruits ° w e/ motion of' the Hon. Member for Sheffield, if it wer e „ of a ll a —a measure, the result of which would be a subver",°,a-tioo0; good feeling, and the substitute of the opposite; ese o ea' the one hand on account of these concessions being °PCitlets the antagonist feeling ; on the other side, of deep an d " regret and poignant disappointment. —( Cheers.) d s ot Mr. 13. OSBORNE expressed his sorrow that hex in g tbs had an opportunity at an earlier pe r iod of addreblarat House on that subject. He had, however, listened tag attention to the debate, and he could not avoid exer7to the doubt that it would exhibit an unsati s f ac tory seec tsr. a e a r tl lel admirers of academic rule and of academic education', . - o itie* would find the Members who represented the Unitrh-ie cope die' with but one exception, to a man disinclined to gr." • cession to Ireland, and disposed to battle—nay, to breach ere the measure should be carried.—(Hear' lir a the Hon. Gentleman who had la s t sp o k en . an d who t presentative of a decreasing party in Ireland—he,,t n ," e t Orange party—had thre a t ene d th e Ri g ht Hon• be .- the enmity of hi s pa r ty—if h e pe rsevere d i n hi s intenti ous threatened to amalgamate with the repeaters. Mr. HAMILTON explained. it I ssi Mr. OSBORNE w ou ld acce pt th e exp l a nation %, sp oi j given, but when the Hon. M em b er l au d e d the patri ut t l i ues loyalty of th e P ro t es t an t s , an d re f erre d t h em to the o 'a t o Archbishop Hunte r , h e (M r . O s b orne ) wou ld earl ' 4l the still earlier period. H e wou ld t a k e hi m to that periour'reeel' history of Ireland when P ro t estan t s were th e abette rs ° vole° lion, when Wolfe Tone and other Protestants were the of pre' of rebellion, and, therefore, he raid, away with the cry ° A thol:: testant integrity and Protestant loyalty The Ruar ri ava l t 't subjects of Ireland, he would aver, were ae,' ee re. ) te a most Protestant Members in that House.-- ( l " r easi e- e the Honourable Member had but made himself 2- ; o tbt, b o l with the principles inculcated at the College of lgeY., n bieh P p ) would not have joined in raising the senseless cry - os eore - st been heard against that Catholic seminary. He f Ig r 's a eoce t n . was much struck with the speech of the Right H° ll _,;,,,eag the head of her Majesty's Government on the P rat oecasn'a-y ing. The Right Hon. Baronet appeared, °D.,. 0 co usu al to be more engaged in the task of defending his .. bi s `,l to than the character of the Irish Church, aedt eferree e ch, r • Wl' adroitness, he, in the after-part of his sP e as'ne, O'Connell and to the Oregon territory—to e verete• l f tet e O'e r ; but the real question before the House, which he tie balks board altogether.—( Hear, hear.) He held in "I of te .t paper containing the recorded opinions of thr ee .l, o t 39 :„ Right Honourable Baronet's friends—men of great tl";,fer filling a high position—and the first he should ;ollr would be Lord Brougham.—(Laughter.) He was Il a ";., posed to be of the same party with the Right Hon. 13 51, - • e rgt 1 (Continued laughter.) That Noble Lord said, in s P es' e l tAtr e" the Establishment in Ireland, " God forbid that the xe elital s should have the same power over its property that inu l ye eer s had over theirs," and he argued that the Church re s obe might be legally applied to the purposes of educatiT o dedt ° , State might think fit. The Hon. Gentleman had 11 to e the subject of compact, as known and acted on at th e . ih s th ... 19 • 4e , is the Union. What was the Act of Union? It, was representatives of a small minority of the Irish 1 3 .7. 0 05 ti order that their Churca should be perpetuated , an,i b l ee tieS ° ,l quence of certain pecuniary reasons sold the Wu the Irish nation and the Irish Church. - to 0 4 , ,, cheers.) He asked if the Government w ere o r COI; upon precedent, why that which was thought goodhphoe should not be good for Ireland also 2—( Cheers.) " (fle sr ' not the same principle be applied in both conntries•; rrote s , hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for t h e ratite; Department seemed, in his speech of last night' t°„ h t s p ot ber!: ) ,4 misrepresented the opinions entertained by Hon. 0 •"" dew f that side of the House• H e see m e d t o think that aloo the entire subversion of the Iri s h Ch urc h. He eo di ,, for himself, and he knew th a t h e cou ld an swer for 1ne" . „ 4 ,0 that they desired no su c h thi ng . B u t they could that Church had tried to fulfil the expectations 00, 00. 0 tb a had been originally found e d. H e cou ld i n f o rm the not Is in Ireland ther e were 218 par i s h es w hi c h eontsin„T or eht s o o Protestant.—( Hear.) 723 p ar i s h es h a d no t one ' , n ag " Pv consequently no service at all.—( Hear, hear.) I le ; n °l3 l; then help lam en ti ng th e i gnorance exhibited eichorej Members respecti ng th e use f u l ness o f th e F. s t a blishe ae oer e e in Ireland.—( Cheers.) The Hon. Member had en d e e s eek tb a ,l to carry the House with him by referring to what h e glee) ' I ; glorious period of the reformation. Why, the refer a d br e e - ; never taken place in Ireland.—(Cheers. ) There h ad t indeed, a revolution at the time, but no change " t gad . s e place in the opinions of the people. 'f he Govertnn en t he I ti r,l monarch of that day wanted to seize the revenues o.r . for "'O Church, and this reformation afforded a good colourit we lt , purpose.—( Hear, hear.) How was that Reformeaitee ; a l oof out ? In James the First's time the ordered to be translated into Irish, and 1 12 1 ;4: its was preserved of a person complaining, that in ""' a 10 , :d Elizabeth they had English nobles' and Irish minis ter lles - the time of succeeding monarchs, they had Irish irto ineb English ministers.—(Laughter). He was prepared e 114 tion, on the authority of the very work quoted b y e eses bs Hon. Baronet the Secretary for Ireland, that ther. similarity between the Irish and the English Chure h t e ; of {th e English Church held its temporalities with the sane t ste great body of the English people. That was not the e mote oNe the Irish Church. There existed also a vast difference taa,t, the doctrines of the churches. The work o bserved religion of the Irish Church was a species of 5- _,T I te r rather than Protestantism. The Church preach morality quite opposed to the liberal tenets °Y : ,,i s ter s t e Divines. What was th e l anguage o f some o f the 1 1 ""peew h ' e the Protestant Church in Ireland ? The Right Bev' said that the penal laws were for the - beneP t , ° o ' et s ,... 1 Papists.—( Hear, hear.) What was their c onduel a , t the Right Hon. Baronet when he brought in his e°7 l l •ltai t - e measures? Their language was only worthy of Ef A e.e asit t 't and their exclusive University of Dublin. He vo lt— eO - ..a n o House if it had ever produced one great man, or one 0:"" sne tb e writer ?—( Hear, h ear , an d c h eers .) P er h a ps t might be given them by the Noble "'"' etel° -r ;t Member far Bandon—some little ministe r A p eter g in his little s ph ere , b u t one name wor thy of note ba",i g ban is emanated from the Dublin University. He held in Ace i re Government pamphlet, issued from the Government 01 a te at Dublin, and entitled " Probate of Wills," and be n ° o it hi the liberty of reading the whole of it to the House' „ left ' o f not very long, to show the amount of Church PrO er a'eri 4 , ;0 some of the Church dignitaries within the limited t ete° ; 0 forty or fifty years. He found, among other facts s ... et ty ' it, that the Lord Bishop of Cork left at his deceive P%O the amount of Th h hThh eeeee Bishop Archbishop ehh h hho o oobpp p pi -0 0 00hf f ff K D pT u r loi o aif m Limericko r e 6002, T Dublin T • " 10 0,0 vi:„ aloe ......... 1 m ... 2 5 ,25 0 1 : :0 0 0,10000 0‘ Vu The Bishop of Raphoe 300 The Archbishop of Armagh The Bishop of Clogher The Bishop of Cashel o as t be In all an amount of ........ . ...... la - el And all this amoun t, b e it; rem em bered , collected bese.ot space of forty or fitty years.—(Cries of " Hear' toe tae to . he ite l They had heard various allusions to their not wishing property from the Protestant Church. He did 10v . t 00 0 that they wished to take it, nor was it his wish that ' h oed ; le be done, but he wished that that Church should be f o re t be a better footing. Dr. Do3le, in an examination) h e t fo r t,g House of Lords, stated that he had a greater reseef defers ootY Established Church than any other Church which ro e e from the See of Rome, but that he thought that the to th e was as prejudicial to the Established Church as it to -s i ncer e r ', Irish people. He remembered the days when 3 otttf d was put in Coventry because he agreed in orn e trie ssae', wi,h Mr. O'Connell; and now they were sendinkeo, o e , of peace to Ireland, and dragging at the chariot-w ri stt tble convicted conspirator.—( Cheers. ) He thought er or% were very few Honourable Gentlemen at that or the o ""„ te ter_ I In' OP of the House who would be inclined to agree wi th ) c hit extracted under such conditions. ( Hear, he s ' 'a P o - ts a late occasion, when he (Mr. Gaborn e ,4e P t , the honour of addressing the House, it ,„ at roltel intention to have voted against the Hon. Gentleman ~.,,bjec. Con, not because he objected to the grant, but he ioe sien tr a that it should be taken out of the consolidated fu nd, being, s r; as the people of this country objected to their mon e y fie ty plied to the objects of the Roman Catholic Churc h ' sr - s o very much shaken in that intention when he heart f l o t ir 1 1310 ; tnt t of the Hon. Member for Kent, who dealt out da his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen.—(Laughter:A by t was what first altered his opinion.l It was succ eed Oft s°' f Hon. Member for Elgin, who claimed the herdilloou M ein her ° of e of Birmingham Pope—(Laughter)—instead of a furth s 0 the Senate, and pronounced the religion of three-tie Lou_ the population of Europe to be an awful delusio n. , r ite ' not countenance such a gross insult to the Roman Li h e s tter t° 0 ligion. Ile would tell the Hon. Gentleman that it w as, - f i e insane in his charity than rational in his malice. t het pe ti t: refer him to: what was said by Burke, that was he m o st sensed altogether from the Christian religion e ed stint. He would put it to any dispassionate Men' the wo tin Gc the vir for To till do dif rs :J •M 7.