The Sun. — London, England, 1814-05-21 00:00:00

Berenger as an agent, against whom no bill of int..; ;tient Was preferred, and had given him into the custody of a Messenger of the Alien Office. ,Now that u -hill was Found against him, which lodged with tie Marshal of the King's Bench, wso;!;l‘ Lave detained him before he absconded ; he e ow this committed to Newette. The ds teet: of his Pank notes, others of equal value haling beets given to him, veyeld have been an act et aety on the part of a Nfitgistrate in a case ot telinly, and was in his opinion justifiable in,. the case of Mr. De Berenger. With respect to the order that the Gentlemen of the Stock Ex eietoge might- see him, he should say but little. Be - trusted no such order bad been given. If aech an order had been issued, Mr. De Berenger was not obliged to see these persons. He was as 'merit at liberty to shut his door against them, as he. would have been if at-large upOn bail..• Sir S. ROMILLY held the question to-be, whe ther or not the power of the Secretary of State bad been abeseel, by taking from De Berenger adr•latages of which he could not be deprived but by the Alien Act. It appeared this man's money and clothes laid been taken from him before he was charged with the crime for which he was to be tried, and detained afterwards. The Petitioner said, if admitted to bail, by showing himself to persons who do not know his name, he could get witnesses necessary to his defence, Weich other wise conld not be brought forward. On the other band, 'those who were to be witnesses for the pro secution, were admitted to see him. This was the use made of the Secretary of State's order, for i hatever purpose it had beet, issued. On this 'subject the House ought to be particularly jealous', to see that the power given to the Crown by the Alien Act was not turned to assist private prose • eutions, or to deprive parties accused of the means of defending themselves. ` 4 I'IIe..SOLIC.I7OII , GENEtiAL replied at some length to the last Speaker. He thought there was no fo u ndation for the Petition that bad been pre- seared, told that the Secretary of State had acted fair ptioa that the hulls:Wu' in upon a <fi pt taut ; al leestion was a dangerous character. Mr. W. Weleee thought it siogular, that the charge on the part of the Secretary of State should have ,coincided in point of time with the prose= cution on the part of the Stock Exchange. He thoaght the best cours:s„ for the Hots* to take, waeld he to appoint a'erret Committee to in vestigate the, circumstances of the trans tenon. The main 4140411 ties consisted in this—was the 'ecretary of State justified in taking the effects of an Alien ? Mr. Locanaier observed, that Magistrates must occasionally act under the exercise of sound dis eretioo, as in the case of a man with whom was found a trunk, containing Clothes stained with &c. Would it not. be a good plan on the part of any peason, that he detained property un der circumstances of suspicion, for the further ance of the enttj of public justice ? He could see no offence committed by the Secretaey of State, either as such, or as a Justice of Peace, after be, was informed that the property was necessary for purposes of justice, whether. it consisted of _Bank ' notes or other matters. Sir J. MACEINTOSII contended, as the Power exercised by the Secretary of State with respect to Aliens was of the greatest importance, its abuse ought to be vigilantly guarded against.— They ought to be particularly strict in their con struction of the Alien Act, and no power which was not diefinetly given in it, ought to be exer cised by the Secretary of State against Aliens. lie was surprised to hear ally thing stated by those who hatrpreceded him in the debate, which might . be_prejudicial to the prisoner on his trial. A help less foreigner ought to have free access to that House, which was open to the petitions of all was shutting their gates with iron tiolts, when such a supplicant implores relief, to say he should static for his temerity. 'The Petition Was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. WHITBREAD then rose and said, there was no time to be lost, or prcjudiee would indeed be raised. It was stated, that the obvious purpose of Mr. Berenger was Co get property, which, if detained, would_ operate to his conviction. This mutt naturally go against hini, unless the House investigated the subject. He hoped the Right j -lon. - :Gentleman (Mr. H. Addington, Who was going away) would stop a little—(a laugh),—as 'he had -some papers to read. There appeared to have been a previous communication between the Secretary of State and the Stock Exchange `Gentlemen, which, while uncontradicted, seemed expressly intended to assist the latter in their private prosecution. In no part of the Yeti- Lion did Mr. De Berenger pray for Bank-notes; but for liberation, and to be put in the situa tion he was in before. Some parts of his ,defence, he said, lie could not conduct by the employment of agents. There were persons who knew him only by sight, whom, if at large, he only could find,anel who were material to his case. The At torney-General assumed ( the case of Berenger be mg seized for going - beyond his limits; bat the warrant of committal did not say so. There seemed great reason to suspect the correspondence previous to finding the bill of indictment. The Solicitor-General sarcastically asked, why Be tenger had '_so long abstained from applying to the House t Why, but because this was . his last re sort ! Had he-come sooner, would he not have 'been told that i be carne there prematurely ? The. case of the last necessity had arrived : he could call the Secretin v of State to :no Court, and he was p now to be told that he came too late, and wanted to get away evidence that would convict He, (Ir. W.) knew nothing about the 'pe tition till it was put into his bands ; but 'after whit had pa , sed, if a M-;:,mber of 'Parliament could protei.'t th , :2 petitioner against unfairness, he should have that protection. From early in April l ie had made constant applications for his money, not for any identical haul:-notes, but for his mo ney to pay his gaol fee#, his medical attendants, and for his s ustentation. He had received. his money only t;lese few- days. Mr. W. then . prOc:edcd to r cEtpaAshflettcr from l',lr.Beckett, in answer to his roprvsentption. 'one or t h e 21 st , of April stated, that all nec,:yary means shMild be atiOrded him for hiTs defence that could,-with propriety„ be g „ yen 'l•Vhei e was time right of dedding- Upon .Ivll,llt was Ileces,'3ary.l6r his defence? Ir. Berengor wa - s - not committud 'to Netv;ate till the 29th, to plead; hut the Stock Exchange Gen- ' tternen thought his papers might be convenient for the ends of public justice. Mr. Beckett then said, that as he thought they would be material for his defence, he might be permitted to take copies, the originals being retained lot future objects. At that time no 'bill had been fiumd against him.— What then, :he desired to know, was the Secretary of State's authority for the seizure and detention ? The Act, it was said, would be clumsy, if it did riot give such powers ; but he shoold reply, " Shew medic powers." Was it any answer to say, such had been the practice % Was that sufficient in the case of general warrants ? Mr. Beckett wrote on the sth of May, stating Lord'Sidniouth's con sent to his going to Newgate ; but could give no answer respecting bail. It yeas strange that Be tenger preferred 'Newgate to remaining in cus tody of a messenger. Mr,. Beckett wrote again on the ISth of May, up to Which chile Mr. Beren ger had 'received uo money.' Lord Sidinouth de clined then doing any thing concerning his libe ration : as to property, every thing was to be re stored, except %dial was :yawed for public justice, at the approaching trial, with which it was siid that his arrest had nothing to do. • Other notes . were then to - be delivered to hint , in stead of the original property. Mr. Solicitor- General had said, that oue note was as good as another : and so it was, it of equal value; but his eloquence io a „ Court ofJostice would have extorted a verdict jruin a Jury, it he dwelt upon the value of a thing being- one's 'own. In 1811, the Hons.• appointed a Secret Committee to inquire into•the case of Mr. Colville. No inconveiiience resulted, nothing was div'elged, and the report sanctioned his detention. -It was right to have. the matter cleared up. Had the Stock . Exchange affair never , Occurred, tvould Mr. .Berenger have been arrest ed ?. If the indictment had not been found, would he not, in a decent space of time, have been li berated % Had the Secretary of .State's Office abused its power or not, in paling the means of conviction into the hands of private prosecutors % it wae.due,. in justice to the Secretary of State, to the House., and :to the Petitioner, vvho teas a foreign, friendless, and traduced individual, to in quire into the matter. He had said traduced, on account of the presumptions against. a man yet untried. He concluded by moving for a Secret C6nemittee to inquire into the circutustaeces of the detention of Chas. Random de Berenger, and to report thereon. Igr. B. BATHU RST complained of the change in the proceedings of the Hon. Member, proposing at feat only to move for a Committee on a future day lie saw nothing in the letters inconsistent with the former practice, or the duties of the Se cretary of State.- Any information received by a magistrate or private individual would justify the detention-devil* was suspicious. The very ques tion might turn on one of those bank-nettes. It was not those on his side of the House, but the lion. Member, who occasioned suspicions and pre sumptions. Whci else had brought befOre the House the circumstances of the &notes 'and the coat ? Mr. Berenger only spoke of his property at large : there might be a mark on one bank note, and not on another. Why would not the value of the mites answer his purpose ? Mr. WHITBREAD said, that was Mr. Beckett's statement, not Mr. Berenger's. Mr. B. BATHURST.----That did not matter, as Mr. W. had proceeded upon it. Surely when the cot duct of the Secretary of State was spoken of as a wanton abuse of power, he might touch on the subject without a charge of disparaging Mr. Berenger. If Mr. W. hail brought him into a pre dicament, he (Mr. 8.13,) could not help it. There was no malicious abuse of office, but a fair use of it, from circumstances arising since the detention. The notes given must equally satisfy Berengeee' want. A motion like this should have had a notice. Practice did not exclude inquiry; but he objected to a hasty motion for examining the conduct of the Secretary of Suite's Office, which could be done by,a proper questiini, and a simple aye or no.— Consider who iktroduced the Alien Aet, who Op posed it, and' vvho had since filled the office of Secretary of State, under the eye of Parliament ; and it was presumable; that • what- was 'done was under-a fair construction of the act, or of the authority of the office. It was once doubted whether such an act was necessary during war. .To send a dangerouS person, away with all hiS :papers seemed to be a very improper thing. The motion came on by surprise lie should there fore move the other Orders of the Day. Mr. HoaNER.—It Was the ditty of the Tinder Secretary to know what passed in has office, and to be able to give an answer ; got he had no objec tion to indulge Gentlemen with a little time for their defence.. There might be reasons for detcn ' tion, but the House ought to be satished. At present he must take the averment of the Under Secretary, that the arrest was not connected with the other question. Let the House take full time to look at the act ; amid if that did not bear out the Secretary cif State, then lie ulauld say he was guilty of a' high crime and misdemeanour. At the same time he thought those individuals right who bad endeavoured to bring the late transaction to a full inquiry. Mr: H. ADDINGTON did not expect such a 'mo tion that night, and several Gentlemen had asked, left were necessary to stay—(Laugh). He saw no fair case made out to suspect the Secretdry of State. Mr. PONSONBY wished the debate adjourned till Monday or Tuesday. Mr. WinTeREAD would Have delayed his mo tion to a future day, but determined on an im mediate step, in conequence of what fell during the debate. His purpose was answered for the present ; and he did not object to a reasonable de lay. In the greatest questions of party politics aournMents had occurred, without placing either party in a worse situation. The Hon. Gent. had (Mr.II. A.) seemed srirprised at the flock ofOrators that ran away, after only putting the question "Need we stay ?" He should he ashamed, to fight hint, when he was stripped of his troops !—(A laugh). But was Mr. Berenger now 'detained on any ground connected with the Stock Exchange % or, taking the solemn responsibility Of the Hon. Gentleman, was he so, only because, it at large, the State would be more insecure If he was detained even now for the Stock Exchange transaction, it was a high crime and'iniidetheaticiur. Ile put it to the Under Secreta . ry.in.the interval to_saY, whether the Secretary of State was warranted in refiling the bail and securities offered, wr)ile,the.Petition, , be it recollected, prayed only, for liberation, in order to prepare a defence; the means of which, it wits stated, could only be procured by the'party/liiin self, and to. enable himself to say, that the deten tion was for the 'safety of the State. Mr. BATHURST thought nQW that there could be no good result trona any postponement of the question. The Gallery was cleared, hot no division took 'place, the question being postponed 'till Monday, LORDS LYNL,I)OCKMILL, AND nEttEsFoßn. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER IDOVeti the Order of the Day, tor going into a Committee on the subject of the grant to Lord Lynedock. -The House went into the Committee ; .and the CHANCELLOR of the ExcliEcitTEß, in a very low tone of voice,said that it bad not been thought advisable, in the present state of the finances o.fthe country, to extend the grant as to its quantity, but that it was prdposed to give the annuity, .not merely for tl;ee lives, but to the male-heirs generally. 1.14. r. W. SMITH approved of the principle of not giYing too large and extensive pensions with the Peerage : the latter was in itselt a great reward. It was not necessary tha t. a man, who had raised himself to the Nobility by his exploits, should live in the same style of splendour as one who had not such, exploits to adorn his situation. It was Lie, more advisable to be cautious on this subject, as in every war we might- expect, that there would be several instances where similar rewards would be necessary. Sir C. MoNK said a few words, apparently co inciding with the Resolution as it Was now altered. Mr. S. NVoaTt..EY •objected to the creation of Peers, if the finances of the Country were not competent to furnish them with adequate peii simis. Persons so created might, perhaps, for their own lives, he able to support their dignity and independence ; but the inevitable consequence must he, that theif descendants, in sonic generation, must look to the existing Government for main tenance and protection. After a few words'from the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the resoliition was agreed to, con ferring 20001. annually on Lord Lynedock and his heirs male. Report on Monday. Resolutions .precisely similar were psed with respect to Lord Hill and Lord Beresford. Re port on Monday. CORN. • , Mr. Sheriff MAGNAY appeared at the Bar, with Petition frotri the Corporation of London, against any alteration in the Corn Laws. The SPEAKE,I; remarked, that this Petition"was contrary to the practice, presented only by one Sheriff; though, indeed, there might be-a suffi ciently satisfactory reason for this. Sir JAMES SHAW bore testimony to the fact of Nis. Sheriff Marsh having been present - at an early period of the evening, but having been oblig ed to retire in eonsequenceof . severe indisposition. This . Was held satisfactory, and the Petition wag received, and ordered to lie, on the table.' The Report of the Corn'Exportation Till was hrouglit up, and agreed to, .and the 13,111 ordered. to be read a third time on Monday. Mr.ltosE stated it to be his intention then to move, by way of rider; that it should he in the power of his - Majesty, at any time when he should see cause, by an order, to prohibit • the exporta tion of Grain. Sir 11. Pax - NELL said, he should take the sense of the House upon that rider whenever it:should be prOposed. The Corn Importation Bill was . reeil a second time. On an exp!anrition by the CKANtELLoa of the Excu6;luEti, that it -could not be intelligible till after the blanks had been filled up iu the Coni mittee, he should then agree to such a postpone ment of the discus4ion. on the merits, as should give time for Gentlemen in the country to make up their minds 'on the subject. To be committed on Monday. Mr. Nir.Smyrtt presented a -Petition from Nor wich against any alteration in the Corn Laws. WOOL TRADE. In a Committee of the whole House, on the Acts' of the 9th and loth of William and Mary, respecting the Wool Trade, on the motion of Mr. HusxtsSoN,.a resolUtion was passed for placing certain districts within ten miles of the Sea -coast, in the Counties of Kent and Sussex, in respect to the Wool Trade; in the same situation as all the oilier parti of the Kingdom. To be reported on Monday. CHILD-STEALING. On the motion of Mr. \V. S‘.llTll, the Child- Stealing Prevention Bill went threugh a Com mittee, was reported, and the Report ordered to he taken into farther consideration on Tuesday, and to be printed. The Committee on the Cape. Wine Bill was postponed till Monday. CORN TRAP.E. Mr. BAtiKES rose, pursuant to notice, to move for a Committee to inquire into the present State of the Corn rrade. He hud_po wish to delay the pro ceedings of the House upon that subject. , The objects to which he should propose the attention of the Committee to he directed were not very extensive ; .with due diligence they might be ac complished before- the measure, now in progress were concluded. Paperi would not produc'e that sort of information Which he thought necessary to be laid before the Honse and, therefore, he should propose that oral testimony be obtained by the,-Committee. With , a view also of expediting the inquiries of the Committee, he should move that it be limited to a small number of individuals. He, then coacluded with the following motion— " That a Select Coinriiittee be appointed to in quire into the Stare of the- Corn Trade, so far as rehted -to the Importation and Warehousing of Foreign Corn, to receive evidence, and to report thereon." Mr. WM. Salmi rose to second the motion, and not in consequence of any newly acquired lights, but in perfect conformity with the opinion he bad shortly delivered in one of the early de bates on the Resolutions. He then had said, and by every thing which had since passed he was confirmed in the opinion, that the House was not ripe to decide, on the final measure. It was unnecessary, on the preient motion, to enter into the general reaiutilugs 'on the subject at large ; it . seemed to him enough to indum any to support the,proposition _for a Commiltee,, sufficient gm-molds were not yet 1; i(1 for au cite~ rior proceeding. The evidence of tite_Conobti ti. resent cit•- (c o l tl t i . itci l el a sit s , t. t ul y c e el a si r ,e , m }, t i • nmittee, even should the inquiry go no farther brit t h l e man ati t ) h p e ro il ve o d nourable Mover had -proposed ; ottltl e probably n b e once appdiute::, file ' still mote, lu e : ( 1 -1 1C 11 . 11°. 1 1.:: s' b e' so many points as •tniglit delay the. whole tetra sure till another year, an event which h, reg•'''" - ed as very desirable., because ilforcling °PP, tunity to obtain that knowledge which time only could besot,. but which was. neciessf'-euf":o to enable the House to legislate wisely on the matter. 'Who. could yet say wha t t,tjigljt. tip the effect of peace, and the cononercial trea"kets, be made in consequence, on the state a "' 3l . 00 4 either at home or abroad ? Ferther, Was 11°t t he 'imminent pledged to reliee the c ountry' I"' • )4 property tax in a short period after the restorall'f of tranquillity—and would -not the remissi° t „ that burthcn make an immense difference hotl.'tter landlords and tenants, and enable both f"r l ' r s ! t he to support a very considerable reduct ion in 0. prices of, produce ? He. bad b e f ore ' a lluded to 11 1 : state , of our circulating medium, an atfai'' . z e ,. small importance sides, the ii e tohfe m a the n i: t r i l t sa y s te:i t t m l abundance ti l m qt ' tar t r for the diminution of price, the farmer ''','' in tt otie danger surely of being so : muc h, injure aC season as to diScourage agriculture to a deg t _ t i, N eas all likely to affect the. general welfare• and sure also; thmit a more deliberate discoss w lt re an evident desire in the'llouse to obta in , 4 „iezzt quisite information, %vould 'convince the l'` u r Ntta large that their real interests were co nsoll''' i ' rec er render theta tar more satisfied with might be the eventual deterinination. ,„0- Creatletnan had proposed. to. avoid the t ' jc t gag niencies which haste might occasion, by '"•.; the present only a t'emporary measure P LIt i j oli cey • affair of such magnitude and general itorc` it was surely better well to consider ion l your enactments, and even to postpone thew to most proper and convenient opportunities, t b iz , tie adopt theta hastily, and trust to remedY fects by future and even speedy alterab-1w Agriculture, too, ought to rest on more st“..vti,.; rovisions ; its very nature demanded tho ll l ,*r k miis farmer could not b ev ery year changing liit ij e±ie without great disadvantage. And for .Bp iot ioo reasons he should support the motion--A itcar good even in its least extent -better o ,'e lied so far as to'delay for another Sessiva t pre sure, which,• at any rate, he felt sent bound to oppose. • Sir H. PARNELL said, that nothing- wl"ci . rbe nt fallen from. the Hon Member who pr oved I „ ° ,.l l '' Committee, had convinced him of its Il ee dr - o 'l o o and he should therefore certainly divide the fl upon M Cot"; r. BROAplitilIST spoke in favoni. % "big: , mittee, contending, that the House had Iv`' - -like adequate information before it or t) ,,, ( ,ae' nmentous a question. With regard tothe - r „ L ilo" ed price, for instance, at which the durYt;o,l portation should begin, he declared -10 d, Inure ,knew no ore than the , man in the 001 '. then it should be 635. or 735., - Mr. Rose supported•the motion. •, p 11 056 , 1 , and begged D hem to consider at opposedeaettt pe riod t the b 1 ,-: thought to move pofoitn fo r 'thisC . last quire into the state of the Corn 1.40 0- "": 1 1 . : I mi tbe . reported—distinct intimation was give r ' , 4 ; 5 4 011 " question would be amply discussed this 'wad _lt, had so—two Bills had been brought ed upon the Resolutions of the Conaitt:e' of them had actually, passed that night--t",,aloi bad advanced to the stage of a steV j and now, on time 20th of Mity, the floo; found out, for the first time, that the proceeded Nvithont due deliberation Oi l i i „itite' (Hear, hear !)—He objected to the C°lYot•dra'''' le , e n iut u s p e o l l m l e w t i l l m i o c u h g t l o mt :had sit tlicien t c e, amid becauseL ~, c 14 % t because lie thought they had sufhe° C tI C ti• jects proposed for inquiry by the Cou'ill'l tee merely Mr. PuoTp temporary. utotioia, utori.spoke in - favour of J°" 11. as did also Mr. Alderman Smith and ;tl rte Newport. The CHANCEL/Mil of the EXCH aio t ? . : 4; should have been inclined to suppo r . t t , io ugh t. t :- of his Hon. Friend, because he house might advantageously ingo i t re t when of the points suggested to him ' • found , that the avowed hopes eol-ert that the Committee would be the f‘,mr.-fm measure now in progress by M (1 al , '— should he obliged to vote against i t .' 1i055. 1 5, 5 1 )1 ;4; Mr. DOUGLAS, Mr. FINLAY, M r. po rtyp Mr. LlATututsT; and Mr. CANNISG, EDamon'i t motion for the Committeei nkts. e d Mr. DALY", and 'Mr. PRESTON, (WV' t S- e ClottSc h a short reply - from" Mr. BANKL's vlded For the 'Appoinment of a Con"ittce- 4 4 2 , Against it Maiority• • • • ~ii„u ti kisr• Adjourned. at Two o'Clock , tin t "' ° Est i ' BIRTHS:. the On the I.oth inst. in-Queen-,,quarc, 4 : Geli e phen of Mount Cottilgt' , daughter. , v i vo.' • det ral ( ) ) Bi n tr,o t i lie lke l r s:-b doafvt i " rr i Es q . of a a e t n te'h ca nt Pel l ' itl • p acc se ,ti r ls tla6, ali t . A l lrs. (i ) nef esii of r. Sej S o n . r ,d•ovi , MARR IED. 4,u CaOS e , On Thu;sday last, at St. A ndrew's ) j. r 4 c := Ruhßobertßach:man, Esq. to Sophia Theiess,b);:lo7lo„ i ter of the late - Morlev Wharreyi Esc!' et, DI , if , i ter - i, t t htut), On the 14th inst. at her son-io-iaw s o f 1% . tl l5 Mary Bench, of the late J. liCn" , Cumberland. at tt° llest°l' hately, in one of the Alms-houses, aged 49. pV ilwairtiosemasoream memacesrrn...-'- It s .7, aCio.tocurnntaly,iti,,nfs:idetaia.);KilirilitAnilishssso:ri istcrLitsio, 1 4 ' 41-5 7 .______ '41 LONIYIN : Priotoi by 3. IL }Letters buildings; an d frithlishea . where ,tosel at the SuN-O, No •. , lq, .' °' " 'post be micats , o r d e rs, Letters Cpust-pall.W6'c'