The Sun. — London, England, 1850-02-27 00:00:00

. end that he had efficiently instructed in the items II s'h"ei educ,tion; and the other was the formatio 11 '., w scl l° 01, ; tied these he (Mr. Fox) propose I shouldof n b free seho,l•,---schools to which an inhabitant 0 the l Pariah or distiect would have the right to send his chi - de, e .s° elwtee the ages of Tr.ea and thirteen, without . .. c , eli , r ge, Wiile;irt any distinction of teettmeet or tre . itiiee i , eta' 00 Wide; p:culiarittes ineule,tel, but leaving ' eri-nls t're6right-the ineliste able right-to have .. t r, te i r ihl::'lren instriet td at fixed p-rieds, in whatever r ,l 1 ,,l) 'Y migl,t thick Proper -(flear.) " ......-, proposed that, i on le o . - h i Mg the school, each child who had conducted , ra 'elf to his naaster'e satisfaetion should have a p - ,, 1 1l of books made to him, and that the Holy Scriptures ~- ' 4 lll always toren a portion of those books. He pro b%'*,(l ( het the traedier should be made as independent u a i s [ - ,,, -3 ','lllei that he should be appointed, and that hesho hu d t th at eisfnissible, by the local education committee, but . !e , in ease ur dismissal, he should have a right of ap 1 ' Ie th e E Iticatier; Committee of the Privy Council; aild if instal ,should occur in which a district would be le,eieless or so 1 eglectfel of its duty as not to t e e :. v liie te provide for the deficiency in the supply otec til l'lt• he woure;ve the Committee of the Privy Council 11 : 14t , t ° sleP ". in and remedy - the evil. To masters :41 e,, ,1 " 11 Piro reasonable sal , •res; he would fix the “hure 01:those Fallri,s a:, an amount which _w e ou h l e d . ii ' . tire 1° lhrna a respectable social position. H te l l „ n ell ,. that to he a m , tt•r of the utrno-t po,sihle cense ',,e' ne relied on tie schoolmeet , rs for the a lbtre"l'nt of educotion. He believed that it was only elr'llid'i their i nstrumentality that the House could ene f t , , letter and brighter reru't;. among the children , o 4 .1 ? people thee these which they at eresent witn:s h m ie; could 'l there was nothing in that scheme . lied he offensive to those variouti religious bodies which ti;;;Lutubteely dune Si) much for the cause of educe- Iseee d "" Proposed no restraint upon them. His plan hi, P e tit ,au end to that interference which the trustees f ih e l p s earl occasioned so much vexation. If members be la rs ee o_ end,;leblished Church were to erect a sclo a m ris p h, placed seth thfhe.direction of a clergyman of the p Ye ar to e bishop a s a visitor, but which sent . out from th6 rpl4e t p ir a certain number of . , pupils qualified to take Nete r -3 as members of a civilized state, his scheme h oped ew ard them for the work , they had done. He objectionst Dissenters aiso would and the measure un streahle• Their schools, also, would be free from t4 s liai t. , I P faa, he was inclined . to adopt, in reference ° , ll P t ly d sa oJect, a distinction which had once been ° I .44wn by the Hon. Member for Surrey er e r ,', ti 11. Drunamond) between education and in he ty education he understood a complete li4 th.--I°4-sa drawing out of the mind, which co a u e ld L op ec ly . on k i - w erk of a highly-gifted teacher, or of h e tff t. er til ed, e,Patent or master. By instruction, on t e e h_ ... the tea ";litiderstood the communication ot knowledg . il lfil it e ' l `g of the faculties. That was a . lower task , file po ser s unf ortunately the only one which it was in 1114 e44 of legislation to accomplish through the o i l i ti°4l- Ce i e s on ell i4 ° ol naesters. There was another class . „ 'tea ,f• .L'.' net help looking, and whose co 7 operat Q lo e n .. set,e ; i 4 • kee Utmost importance that they should . , 11h es letilefat matter-he meant the working people, r t il e ti c `te e n_r r er e to b h e trained ; for without that co e',ll, ee„,7 . . II ts of . t e Leeislature, or of any other I ,Tis loc ie t i l l that subject could lead to the beneficial re- ble that they should produce. 1143i4tilii e W ''' assodesir la a ss was, he feared, very . much_ trat, d , ,of that c Pr3( 4lßi QY those who had not had opportunities of h,l\foreith'erumurication with them.-(Hear,. hear.) t '''''ral at eia.is there was a sturdy intelligence and a -ri SiljSe which • riled from charity - which . t er rand recoiled unwarranted, sometimes Y e setnetimes not . 'ors, 1,141(1 ehitlehwarrantable suspicions of their Ripen ?iv • b,ludisposed them to read books which had D i ulr rlt-11 by. their betters in society for the 14 11ta', 3 , e ' 4' they believed, of producing a par that • actin -- • • w he thought that ste rd . ° li ori their min.o , 44C141h in"S of inti-lleet, which ' was the unavoidab e le eP t, st rc.ll4fraerit of self-culture, without the possession t 'hoe „)cferealadvantages, was entitled to respect. ,Itilsoi,nPle were dto send their childre l n ish to . Pup -ewiliell they bolted upon as charitable es f t e a r b the ,'' f irie ee t which they thought were founded 'Lii,e-,4lProselytising their children to some particular . 'sclo j- ""notre - i - A society of working men in ,1 111f sti4 1 1 1 1 1 ail put forth manifesto which contained a Js i 'ftri b ,.Pcel that subject, which was, he thought, well n' l albs„tef the attention of the House. (The Hon. ilss ',er in which the writers ex b, , B se th . read the passage, •4 k "lr de termination not to allow their children f lei - PPer t • .sects, and strongly de f 4 1141 t 4 toned among religious 11 ,lr e ?se dissensions amongst the members . of dif• i f i, l 4 le e 'l'leus denominations which had deprived them ti;',f t fu - t e e i ll , 4 _' of saving their .d children ra,. from ignorance, lation.) He believed 4,,,,` lie,e fe'secorepanyir.ig g t ," tba t , i w re the opinions e of the real working men, q „ D e ; th i Il rit , nealculable advantage would be derived from tarn t 1 -e, eft-o p e ration of that class in a more ex r - - ter B i th -3t eni of education. It was expected, pe iii, i, l s w a t ri he should say something of the cost te ti ,lff eettt , Which he proposed. Now it would he prOseo° l l upon his part to produce figures upon %No b Jeet. But he would remark that the first im re4;teie°,l4 t he Mind was very likely to lead to l a highly 1 41 14 re. 4, B t l Mate of the outlay which . . thep an would i i ,•,;esat, Vie arsociation for education in the county of It',l'lhey-sh,4,ni Made their calculations with great care, tVte,, ',,a f ade their calculations with great care, Jund that they could supply sea o . ols ,. f i o e r lkbput e d e4 Lleatio n of the country by a rate of 4 a l'i 11 41 ~ They had further found that they . could ess kiliasaef',.,teies of schools 6d. for f theeducation ot adults a in the pound. That )it ii rils, ho;undfen by a rat , o 111 li, e h is (m ev er, was for a complete provision of schools, e,ei ‘,el•• Vox's) plan was merely . prorsed to sup eq th e 4llle deficiency. Then, again, ie would re -11 eree Mae that, after education should . have been I e 'll rtiere g en eral and effective, they might reason on f P , l4 ,iir a ie latl 01) ; a great diminution o . f . the expense o Ih t ll ls , Pauperism, of punishing criminal f s, as well as Nl ' d et N't e a3es of Property by theft-and urth e e f r, th t e h i e r to l imjee a i,".1 Would receive in . educationthe to the P 4 l taeee -e4l Jentration for the e i s r contributions that which he pro ,,clSth' A s h " 4 such a system "i fee e e had said before, he should rely t m a a t i d el e y . i)tieti-eeers for the success of any scheme of h k Y e ltiti e l e 44 , ll in that reliance he felt warranted bh e e_ ,`, -,„°°servation cf the Noble Lord at thehead,ago, Ste,,' ite'!lth:."lllent, made in that House three years Sis: , 4,, , ,,,, ~,,,,,siae topic of education had been u e n ees _ oe- Illee it ts'he Noble Lord said upon that o i N; 41 s11" al waYs been my opinion that you could never lOe t tl th,, Y raise education in this country until yo l 41;it:t!.'' I nd ition and the prospects • of the schoo - , ll let: i ie 1 .. ow that was the object he . (Mr. Fox) had '' hat lia -equrnending the salaries which he proposed t"tq :ksur e . If anY erson doubted the importarice I l es r list ers in schools ') he would direct the attention i h%le,•, B °. ‘ n to the state of education in the Isle of . Man. wedt'Psi, -,iel4an Was perhaps the most perfect specimen iLtit(sl ef a cotnnaunit universally and highly edu- Itsl,4,,flif:rte4,3 regaeded the use of ink and paper. Every , t i ,''St -,,,' nad its school; and the inhabitants we . re . in lill'ts:vs'l,' s ociety in which the power of public opinion I,44''ltiXei;th,o bear upon individuals. Parents in the t N. chit re even subject to a penalty if they did not 4 4 I le. ee ddren to h l-a thine. which would not p, titti se 00 t t51 11,1 Nei% .lo this country-and ( ' yet the children V ti e lleli la the most deplorable condition . which .111 1 ' be conceived. The Bishop, in writing Nitl sobllflUittee of the Privy Council, said that l 1/ ,, l sti li tv%Pfail for raising the condition of the schoo - 44l•1Nelfie ad opted, the education granted in the 4 1 , f t h i llieril e he useless, and the children there would be i 4l ili ' ' of 4 Useful knowledge by those of every other . tlltl:rortreieitit.he country. It was not on the pupils 44 eitr te e colleges that he (Mr. Wox) would merely ':,'.; IN , 41II R out that measure. r. .,re''The profession of ~r;t"titetlt4thr.._had sunk in this co .stry because it brie' ih„ pehieeneouyagemt whit was required in devote tie selves heart and et a% t l at o __ Peopte to ; 'il k i' l l fce tr el lPation. He believfit that persons well 14, 4 tk t °tit the t work existed in e-unsiderable numbers 1.,, per ks er Count y • a nd he 4 , ought of the school t',:riire';k t; ( 1 ,,, i 1 e l port ' -uuscitrree . e . %fit. There was a V l ifrfhig e '', O Y in some m ind s ,!leich enabled them e'le, r th e with children and tee , ccelerate their pro -I,ll4lilte .• wait of which no am .at of learning could 5 . , 4 11 - 1 4 hitiP f Wear, hear.) He v.. 'ld throw . open the t," 11 14 th e ut feasters; he would 'eke aptitude for i,,,,ll.,l'plirrat test in that competition; and then he r - 1 4 , 101 ,Ward good teachers. Their function was d itikil';;.)th4ll:‘,Rlt well be deemed sacred, and they e yet, It, "L honours which society could bestow.- 4 I 'll I lit ttuated that the House would judge that 11 1 11 ‘ tl 4l ite l .. 14 t 1 i mportance and . interest, and not by the . i11,, 1 l oteip je.rfeet manner in which he had brought it ll 4:lt t i l t etie e. • He merely wished at that moment 44 : 14 )' th at ' . 4 "°uld be laid upo he table of the H e see it Rh , • and that the ous tailt,' - .4 4 - otlid be printed; , 'fitl i e ll . t h t Y would take the measure . into their con lt,lhlti oft Prayed the House to think of the . con t'l l '' t riB on, thousands of children .in t e hi a s ilte 4 Nl l , e h la e th e l nk of the crime which had thriven i_ ilefite,lltre to to see bring forth better fruits. He ti''sti f flly t'° think of those localities which were lt b ‘ i f q f he ,I,l(lftig forth hordes of untutored savages in l iii, - ) l6r, e 4 ili t 4 i -e tneti to derive from civilization only q„''' ( of au for becoming themselves a more un lenti,tes o'er ante to society. He would have them 4li;„tio'„Ne-et.et‘erowded gaols and hulks, and of our 1 1 ,",eitl',tt, e ",, l e es; he would have them think of the Yltt.lPleil'er, and security which might be spread ‘ 441 11 414 i11e th e homes of the well-disposed by the ge litittiol'vetfat4hd the naoral conduct of the people ;he kV itedbio lin e al look to higher motives-to motives of 1t . NlVse I%rejlleter-and to consider that the intellec ; tPefie b f latre of our country had ever been a . !'c t ls, e ,,out e et i ri to that of its supremacy in arts and qie,"eiely,,euve them look to those still higher lrili ' 4 tte lea t hepurposes of civil society should ~41 e tlll iehr e° tupli s h d i',•i'e, e'e, -.11 ] -e , would yet remain to be realised "Vt a l ; ivo„ - ) 1 ,,wh0 by the means which they could ,lte!,lletr'ar wi,'.``,_he better qualified to fulfil the good c t ,il l ; 4 l ''(„„ else-I,?",he had been formed by his beneficent `l,ie'frb.",,geWe,l`s,) The Hon. Gentleman concluded Vier ° tete; eu eers by moving for leave to bring in . a kiq'.otte \v g the secular education of the people in k.44 .l\iv , Eile s . , 5 4. 0 4 ( 1 114 ,ee titi ,W4, 8. anxious to render . his testimony to ,`ltlo. 04, 11 ,‘ ability with which the lion. Gentle re,'tll t le bblht that subject under the notice of the N,' 4 l 4 ; e d sj,,,•eved that the Hon. Member had rather ;,11flIetilesierci-‘ll, overstated the . deficiencies . in our ,7e le 'ke li . e e 1,(4 educe.tion. The plans which had L o ' l hi:e i "oth the extreme parties upon that sub- Nl!kilrc,t 4t ttlo failed; and he did not see why they , it ,fhe „ellgth leave it to parishes to tax them 141A es• 4lslei'"sotlo f .• ( ' % LTS n 0 that object. ,llyil et lee ., .‘,Elod Lord J. RUSSELL. r,-se together; ;te,k,tilse'thllltee°4thheaving given way, the Hon. Baronet F V I N e tee- s Peeeh of the Hon. Member for ie 4s Red ner and ability of which he readily ke te e -- -li e e 1 1 .0 tit °llion of 'ad waited in respectful silence to '444 ,1 4 . 1111 ,- e ll th' e . e s°l4 ° Member of her Majesty's Go eke, v oce riejsstropeeed measure. Q ttl t, (4 d ' 4 ' l 4 ain rose, amid some laughter, 4nki L . 5 4 , 1 With g . . '4 qi Or the permission of the Hon. 4ttl4.l.4taleitithe 'louse. The Noble Lord said 1 4144 Pend the Member fur the University ‘o have expected that some Member :, of her Majesty's Government should rise and state what view he rook of the motion of the Hoe. Member for Oldh2.re, he did not hesitate to say that he hoped the House would not refuse permis-ion to the Honourable Gentleman to bring in his Bill.—(Hear.) Ile thought that no one could doubt, in the first place, the irnporzance of the subject, and, in the next place, no one could soy that rteincation was in such a state in England that no further measures were re quired up , n the subject; that there wets not much to be lamented in the present deficiency of the means of edn cation; that there was not much which good men de plored, even in the education which was given; and that there was not yet more to be deplored in the ab sence of education among the great mass of our people, whose instruction, and still more, whose training in re ligion and morality, deeply concerned the welf ire of the whole community. If that were the case, the only other question that remained was, wh, they the Hon. Member for Oldham had approached that subject in a fitting spirit—(llear, hear)—whether he had been deeply im pressed with the importance of the task he had under taken, and whether the object he had in view was to provide for the hitter education, riot of one portion, n , t f one sect, but of all cusses of the people in this em pire.--(Hear.) thought every one should acknow ledge that th. spirit in which the Hon. Gentleman had approeci,ed that question was one worthy of the sub ject—(Hear, hear)—that he had stated full and ably the rre,eat deficiency :if education, that he seemed clearly to perceive in what that deficiency con sisted, and that whatever might be the merits of his proposal, his inclination was to produce a plan which should not excite jarring contentions, but should rather tend to unite the various opinions prevailing upon that subject.—(Hear, hear.) If that were the case, he said, there was good cause to induce the House to agree t o the request of the Hon. Gentleman that he should lay that Bill on the table of the House. As to the further questions, what were the difficulties which surrounded the subject, and whether the plat' proposed by the Hon. Gentleman would overcome those difficulties, what was the manner in which the plan proposed by the Hon. Gentleman might be viewed by the public and by those who were at present engaged in the promotion of educa tion, and whose services in that cause the House was bound to honour, those were questions on which he thought it better not to attempt to express upon that occasion any imperfect views, which would not, perhaps, be correctly founded on the measure which the Hop. xlember recent to introduce. He, therefore, altogether declined to give any opinion at that moment with respect to the plan proposed by the Hon. Gentleman. That, he thought, was afar bettercourse, than that he should either commend that plan prematurely, or make to it objec tions which, after all, could not, perhaps, be founded on the merits of the case itself. This only he would say, that he thought that, perhaps, of the whole state ment of the Hon. Gentleman the part in which he most doubted the accuracy of the allegations was that in which be had alluded to the failure of the efforts made for the improvement of popular education of late years. His (Lord J. Russell's) impression rather was that al though the great efforts which it had been proposed that they should have made three or four years ago had not led to as large an extension of education as they bad anticipated, yet it had been attended with a con siderable addition of its blessings. Whether there was a failure at present in the desire and the means of carry ing eti education, that again would be a matter for sub sequent discussion. All he should then venture further to say was that he thanked the lion. Gentleman for the spirit in which he had brought that subject under their notice.—(Hear, hear.) Frequently as he had been dis appointed in discussing that question, he could not but hope that, whether or net the plan of the Hon. Gentle man should be adopted in the shape in which he had proposed it, such a plan of general education discussed with temper in that House might tend to advance that great cause in which society was deeply interested, and he should certainly cordially concur in giving his assent to the introduction of the Bill. Sir B. H. INGLIS said he willingly admitted the temper and theability:with which the Hon. Member for Oldham had introduced the subject. But at the same time he could not coincide in the principles on which the plan of the Hon. Gentleman rested, or in the objects at which he aimed. The Hon. Gentleman had said that the question no longer was, whether it was or it was not good that education should be diffused. But the point on which he (Sir H. H. Inglis) was at issue with the Hon. Gentlernau was as to what was education. According to the Hon. Gentleman it appeared to be the instruc tion of a man in those branches of learning which terminated with man in this world—(Hear, hear)—and the omission of every consideration of the eternal destinies of man, for which this world and all its concerns wore but a most fleeting preparation. The Honourable Gentleman had said that the education of the people was less advanced in this country than in Prussia, in Saxony, or in other continental countries. Bat he (Sir R. H. Inglis) thanked Heaven that the peeple of England were sufficiently educated to have saved us from the excitement which prevailed a few years ago in Prussia.—(A cry of " Oh" from Mr. B. Osborne.) '1 he Hon. Member for Middlesex cried " Oh," but he (Sir H. H. Inglis) believed that the Hon. Member had reason, in common with the rest of the people of this country, to thank Heaven for the charac ter displayed by its inhabitants on the 10th of April, 1848; and the people who had displayed that character must, he felt persuaded, in some way or another, have re ceived the advantages of a good education. He would not on the present occasion enter into questions of detail. He wished the House to bear in mind that they were asked to give their assent to a Bill which proceeded upon the supposition that a system of secular education was desirable for the people of this country. The Hon. Mem ber admitted that he did not wish to interfere with any existing system of religious education, but wished the education provided by the State to be secular or temporal. He admitted, nevertheless, that religious education was the greatest boon a child could receive —(Hear, hear) — and then to show how his arguments and his facts might be retorted on themselves, went on to say that notwithstanding this great boon he could not but admit the practical conclusion to be a great increase of crime. [Mr. Fox intirnat , d dissent.] Did he misrepresent the Hon. Member? He stated as the result of the reports of the different gaolers and inspectors of prisons, and in• spectors of schools, that religious acquirements wero no evidence of morality. Mr. FOX said his position was that you could not give real religious instruction unless you bestowed on the mind so much of other knowledge as rendered it a fitting soil to receive the germ. Sir H. H. INGLIS was willing to take the position as the Hon. Member had now put it, and could confidently refer to those schools in which a religious education was given, and ask whether secular education was seen there coincident and in juxta-position? The Hon. Mem appeared to think that in those schools where religion was taught nothing else was taught. Now, though he never would consent to admit that anything could be put in competition with that which was destined to fit a child for eternity, yet he asserted that at that moment, in the greater part of the schools to which he had re ferred, and with which he was acquainted, as large a proportion of secular education was afforded as would be found in any other schools. This was a question of fact upon which he could only state his own personal conviction and belief. However, as there ap peared tofie no intention to divide the House, he would merely recur to a proposition to which he had ventured to call the attention of the Government some time ago —namely, that they should make up their minds as to what encouragement they would give to lay members of the House of Commons, to amateur Members, in bring ing in these Bills. Let no man feel himself aggrieved if the Government, on the first movement of any subject, should say at once, " This subject is good, and we ought to take it up; and this is bad, and neither you nor any body else ought to take it up." The time of the House would be greatly economised if the Government would thus interfere with the discretion of private Members. Ile did not mean to say that this subject was one on which the deliberate consideration of the House would be unwisely exercised, and he, therefore, would not refuse permission to the Hon. Member to lay his statement for mally in th© shape of a Bill before the House. But he earnestly hoped that ultimately the House would not as sent to any measure which proposed to give the reci pients of education a system which terminated with this world, leaving them to acquire from their fathers and mothers—whose ignorance he had admitted—that know ledge on which their ultimate happiness depended. Mr. M. MILNES agreed with the Noble Lord at the head of the Government in thinking that it would be better to postpone the discussion of the question till the second reading of the Bill, and would nor, therefore, re ply to the arguments of the Right Hon. Baronet who had just sat down. All that would be admitted by allowing the Bill to be brought in would be that religious and secular education rested on different grounds. The ore was capable of advancement and encouragement, and the other nut, and therefore the State might legitimately interfere in the one, though not in the other. Mr. HUME applauded the course pursued by the Hon. Member for Oldham, who, to prove the inadequacy of the present system, had not depended on his own know ledge, but had referred to the most able and independent authorities. He denied that his Hon. Friend had advo cated a system of secular education alone. The Hon. Baronet had asked what was education? He had always considered it to be that mental training which fitted a man to be a good member of society. and a good life led to religion. Neither had his Hon. Friend proposed any system of State education, but merely that property should be made locally available to supply the deficiency which existed in the education of the people. He hoped that all would co-operate in so modelling the Bill as to secure a general scheme of education for the coun try at large. Mr. PLUMPTRE had understood the Hon. Member for Oldham to state that the deficiency of education was so great in this country that not above one child in thirteen of the rising generation enjoyed its advantages. Whether he had rightly collected the words of the Hon. Member or not, he evidently thought the education of the people at the present time very deficient. The Hon. Member very liberally stated that it was not his intention to interfere with schools already established, whether in connexion with the Church or otherwise; but his intentions were prospective; he merely wished re fill up the gaps. He wanted, however, to know from the lion. Member what plan he proposed to introduce into his new schools. If he understood him rightly, his schools were to be open to the children of persons of all denominations, but there was to be no religious instruc tion whatever, and the children were to he left to such instruction as they could get from their parents or others. The population of the districts in which these schools were to be raised up, however, the Hon. Member pro posed to tax 4id. or 6d. in the pound.—(No, no.) All he could say wits, that if such wore the plan which the Hon. Member proposed for the education of the great mass of the rising population, he for one most solemnly and religiously protested against it. Mr. B. OSBORNE quite agreed with the Noble Lord in thinking that the most judicious course would be not to enter into details on the present occasion. In faot the way in which the details had been mieuuder. stood showed that they were not in a position to dis cuss them. He could not, however, refrain from paying the humble tribute of his praise to the whole, extensive, and statesmanlike view taken of the subject by the Hon. Member for Oldham. He was sorry to add one word of bitterness to the discussion, but he must take this oppor tunity of proving that he had had the benefit of some education by expressing his sorrow for having allowed an involuntary " 0 , " to escape him when the Hon. Ba ronet the Member for the University cf Oxford insti tuted the parallel between this country and Prussia, which, coming from so good an historian, he was sur prised to hear. The Hon. Baronet might have told them that as in Prussia there existed a highly educated people without a representative government, the natural course of events was to upset that state of things in which, in fact, there was taxation without repre• sentatiou.—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Baronet went fur ther, he alluded to the 10th of April. Now he remem bered but one passage in history to which that rebellion could be likened, and that was the rebellion of Lord Grizzle in Torn Thum& The lion. Baronet asked what was education? Ile (Mr. Osborne) had had, he would not say the honour, because he regretted that he had ever twen there, but he had been a member of one of the Universities. He was sent there to receive, not educa tion, hut instruction, and he knew not any year in his life which he more wished to forget, and when he reflected on all the vice and the little learning which he saw while he was at Cambridge, he looked on the two Universities as great hindrances to all proper education. He was the more inclined to support thy scheme proposed, because he saw in it a strong assimilation to what he thought the best mode of education—namely, the national system in Ireland; and in conclusion, he could not help suspecting the philanthropy of that man who would deny the people education save on the condition of instilling into their minds his own particular prejudices. Mr. NAPIER was rather surprised to hear the Hon. Member for Middlesex fasten on the University of Cambridge the bad habits which ho appeared to have acquired.—(Cheers and laughter.) Although the Hon. Member might have found opportunities fir indulging in vicious pursuits, he might also, it was to be hoped, have found occasion for the development of virtuous habits.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member had adverted to the Hon. Baronet's observation as to the conduct of the population of Middlesex on the 10th of April, but perhaps the intelligence of that district might be judged of by the representative they turned out and the one they put in. The House would have an opportunity on the second reading of the Bill of fully discussing the whole system of national education; and he trusted that the same spirit would be preserved which had marked its introduction.—(Hear.) He concurred in some part of the Hon. Mover's views, but differed from him at that point where he wished to separate secular from religious education. The proceedings of the association were of great importance. He had looked into its pro ceedings, and had derived much advantage from it, be cause, although there were many things with which he could not agree, still he thought it best to do like the:bee and extract all the food that was to be found there. In Manchester a meeting was called a short time since, for the purpose of discussing this very question, and a pro position was submitted to it in the spirit of that brought forward by the lion. Member for Oldham, and yet, after full discussion, an amendment was carried of a very op. posite character. He hoped sufficient time would be given fur full discussion, and he thought it better that a Bill of this kind should be brought forward by a pri vate Member than by the Government, as the latter might, perchance, invest with a party character a ques tion which ought to be calmly and patiently considered on its own merits exclusively. In conclusion, he could not but express his satisfaction to see an endowment proposed and advocated by the advocates of the volun tary system.—(Hear.) Mr. COCKBURN regretted the allusions made by the Hon. and Learned Member for the University of Dublin to the Hon. Member for Middlesex, as it was desirable to avoid all personal and irritating topics on a question of this nature. This much, however, he would say of the constituency of Middlesex, that with the integrity and intelligence of their present Member they had every reason to be satisfied. He felt called • on, as a warm supporter of the general principle of the measure, to en ter his emphatic protest against the view which the Hon. Baronet the Member for the University of Oxford had taken of it. He denied that it was a system having re gard only to the concerns of this world. He did not so understand it.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Mem ber for Oldham to him appeared as deeply impressed as any man, that if you could combine religious with secu lar education, it would be most desirable for the State to do so. Why, then, were they separated? Because it was found impossible to combine them in one sys tem, as it would be impossible to obtain the con currence of either the Established Church or the Dissenters. But it was said that religious education WaS by far the most important. He freely ad mitted it ; but if you could not, as a measure of national education and policy, have both, was that any reason why you should not have one?—(Hear, hear.) Did the State at this moment maintain any sys tem of State education? None whatever. Schools were established by the exertions and contributions of individuals; and was there anything in this Bill to pre vent the continuance of the system? Certainly not. Would any one contend that education in this country was in a more forward state than in Prussia? At all events would any one deny that the education of the people of England was very far from what it ought to be?—(Hear, hear.) Mr. W. MILES reminded the House that in 1839 a proposition was made to separate secular from religious ducation. What did the country say to it?—(Hear, near.) Was there not a cry raised against it from one corner of the kingdom to the other? Did not the Church of England and Dissenters alike approach the House with petitions, and did not a Noble Lord, now a member of the other House (Lord Sthnlcy), bring forward a mo tion against it, and though in a minority, did he not very nearly carry his motion? Did not the Archbishop if Canterbury move certain resolutions condemning the principle the❑ brought forward? It was not his inten ;ion to enter into the question. He should be happy to look at the Bill, which he hoped would be discussed with the same good temper and forbearance which had marked the present debate. Nothing would do more good than a general discussion upon the whole system of educa tion, which he should like to see settled by Act of Par liament; but while he was prepared .to discuss it with temper and forbearance, he would not sacrifice one iota of his opinions. Mr. LAW was very glad that an opportunity would be atlorded for discussing how fir an interference with education could be justified by a body not immediately responsible to Parliament. With reference to the Hon. Member for Middlesex, he had not understood him to assert that a good education could not be had at Cam bridge, but that a good education might turn out fruit less.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member, however, must have made up for lost time, for he never could have sat in that House as the representative of Middlesex, unless he had taken great pains to become at a late what he alight have become at an earlier period.—(Hear.) ttr. NE WDEGATE wished not to misunderstand the Hon. Member for Oldham. As he understood him, the inspection was to be carried into the secular education of every school of every denomination, and on the re port of that inspector as to insufficiency, it would be competent for the Government to establish schools on the principle proposed by the Hon. Gentleman, and to rate the inhabitants. Mr. FOX said the Hon. Member had in part mis understood him. The foundation of his plan was the deficiency of education in different localities. The means of ascertaining those deficiencies already existed to a great extent in the documents which the Committee of the Council had accumulated by means of the reports of the inspectors. In a district such as that under the care of the Rev. Mr. Dawes, in Hampshire, to whom the cause of education was under such important obligations, the task would be easy enough. His national school was conducted in such a manner that not only all the children of the parish, but even those out of the parish, attended it; farmers' children and labourers' children sat together, and received the same instruction; and all the inspectors would have to do in such a case would be to report that the education was satisfactory. Where all the inhabitants of a district were of the same religion, they might incorporate religion as much as they pleased; but the case was different when the population con tained members of various denominations. He did not mean that religious education should not begin till secular education had finished; on the contrary, be meant that they should go on together, continuously and concur rently; but he could not think that mountains and stars taught infidelity, or winds and waves heresy. He did not wish to press the measure through the House, sad would conclude by fixing the next stage after the Easter holidays.—(Hear, hear.) Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. JURISDICTION OF COUNTY COURTS. Sir G. PECHELL presented petitions from Brighton in favour of the motion of the Hon. Member for Lewes. Mr. FITZROY having presented petitions in favour of extending the jurisdiction of the County Courts from Berkshire, Birkenhead, Chichester, and Lewes, said, in moving for leave to bring in a Bill to extend the juris diction of the county courts from 201. to 501., it was not his intention to trespass on the House at any length. The principle for which he contended—namely, cheap access to justice, had been already conceded in the estab lishmen of these county courts. No doubt it was desir able at first that the sum should not be a very large one, in order that sufficient experience might be obtained of the working of these courts ; but he believed that it was within the knowledge of any gentleman who knew anything of the subject that the results had been most satisfactory to all parties interested in the working of these courts.—(Hear, hear.) Indeed the public had already given its verdict in favour of these courts—(Hear, hear)—for it was known that the number of suits that had been already brought into these courts, although they had been only three years in existence, amounted to considerably more than I,ooo,ooo.—(Hear, hear.) The proportion the suits in these courts bore to the suits tried in the courts of Westminster Hall was not less tha❑ four to one. The great objection that he understood would be urged against the motion ho was about to submit to the House was, that it would affect the interests of the legal pro fession; and he had no doubt that their profits would be considerably diminished. Although of course he had uo wish to s , ,:c the profits of any class of men reduced, yet it was desirable that they should not give such encouragement to the heaping up of legal expenses as would ; be a practical denial of justice to a large number of the community. All he asked of the House was to extend to the creditor of 501. the same protection that was already extended :to the creditor of 20/. He would mention one or two cases to show the inconvenience of limiting the jurisdiction of those courts to 201. There was now be fore the court at Colchester a person on his petitition as an insolvent. He was the plaintiff in an action—his cause was at the bottom of the list, and he and his wit nesses bad been kept there a whole ,week. The conse quence was, that although he got a verdict for 321., the amount of his demand, with 1201, oils, and although he was a successful plaintiff, he was a loser to the amount comfort and to the health of the hitherto neglected of 301., the costs having amounted to 180/.; and, in ad- poor and working classes. With that view a board of dicion to that, the cost of an interpleader, which was 30/. health had been appointed to remove every nuisaece more, re fused him to the condition of an insolvent Was affecting the health of the community. Local Acts were it desirable that he should he told to surrender 121. of also passed for the purpose of attaining this desirable his debt because the county court had only jurisdiction object. As, for example, an Act was passed for Liver in cases of 201.? The next case was that of a succesfal pool to prevent the occupation of apartments below defendant, the question being whether tbe plaintiff had the surface of the ground. They had re or had not sold to him a certain quantity of chemical ceived reports from every part of the country preparatione. He was a suceesful defendant to the amount as to the manner in which the working people were of 501., but his costs amounted to 801., and the plaintiff lodged. These went to show that the most valuable told him that the law-suit had cost him 3001. portion of the community—the labouring classes—upon —(He ir, hear.) The last case he should men- whore, after all, the prosperity of the country depended, tion was one in which the plaintiff, although he re- had been neglected in a great degree by the Govern covered the full amount he claimed, lost 591. I Is. 2d. ment, who had the direction of everything that affected The only real objection that could be made to his pro- their health and comfort. The expense of building cot position was, why should they stop at 501.—why not at tapes was so great as seriously to endanger the moral oncemake the sum unlimited? So far as he was concerned and social condition of the people. He had visited he should be at once prepared to assent to that, but he within the last two months many of the cottages of the believed there must be some arbitrary limit. His reason labouring classes, and he found in some of them families for proposing a limit of 501. was, that he should thereby of eleven and twelve children brought up without any get the support of many Hon. Members who would net separation so r eeessary for the promotion of decency otherwise support him. Ile appealed t o the House to and morality. Speakirp , generally, he was informed ask any respectable solicitor whether he would advise that there was a deity of r ' ten per cent, levied upon the his client to go into one of the superior courts of law to value of bricks. When they looked at the dwellings of recover 501. He believed nothing was of more frequent the poor they could scarcely blame the father of the fa occurrence at present then to have the amount of the mily for withdrawing from it occasionally to seek for claim reduced so as to bring it within the jurisdiction sf greater comfort, which was afforded bins in the public the county court. The Hon. Gentleman referred to house. Ho was thus induced to spend his money upon the remarks of a morning paper on the subject of the intoxicating drinks, leaving his family destitute and local courts in ludie. in corroboration of his views, and unhappy. There were from 26,000,000 to 30,000,000 also to the observations made by the Attorney-General gallons of ardent spirits consumed by the popula in the course of the last session, when he (Mr. Fitzroy) tion. This enormous consumetion could only be ac proposed a similar measure to the present. 'Use objec• counted f)r by the fact that there was no inducement lion then taken was, that there should be an appeal. to the working man to remain at home, for he had no lie begged to say that the present Bill did contain comfort or enjoyment at his own fireside. The poverty classes tor the purpose of giving an appeal.—(Hear.) and uncomfortable state of his house tended to alienate With regard to the objections urged by Sir G. Grey oil the man from his abode, and to leave his family desti a previous occasion, he would remind the Right lion. lute. At the early part of the session he put in a word Baronet that it was not so much speedy justice which for these classes. It was well known that many poor these courts secured, as it was the affording the poor but men who earned but 9s. or 10s. a week could not afford honest defendant an opportunity of paying the debt by to pay more for their lodging than Is. a week. It was instalments. The Hun. Gentleman concluded by moving also well known that one of their little cottages could not for leave to bring in his Bill. be built for 50/. or 60/. He wished the duty to be re- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, as it seemed to moved from bricks altogether. He was satisfied that if be the wish of the House to receive the Bill of the Hon. this duty were removed the benefit would not be con- Gentleman, he should not interpose any objection to its fined to the poorer classes; the advantages would be introduction.—(Hear, hear.) He felt it his duty, how- felt by all classes. By the return which he held in his ever, although he believed he was taking an unpopular hand it would appear that the amount of duty received course, to point out the objections he entertained to the for the last ten years from bricks was, on an average, principle of the Hon. Gentleman's measure. The cases 481,318/. a year feem England, and 13,440/ from Scot referred to by the Hon. Gentleman of sums of 321. and land. He did not wish to limit his observationsaltogether 421, would be equally applicable to sums of 51/. and 52/., to bricks, for it was of equal importance to the health and it might to-morrow be urged as a hardship that and comfort of the people that the window duty should these also could not be recovered in the county courts.— be removed; and he was sorry that his Noble Friend (Hear.) The sum of 20/. had been fixed upon after very (Lord Duncan) had not had an opportunity of bringing long and earnest consideration, and there were the forward the question that night. The Government, strongest possible reasons for fixing the maximum at that in their endeavours to carry out their sanitary mea sum; 201. had been laid down by the judges of the superior sures, ought to see that these duties upon windows courts as the sum for which a man could not be arrested— and bricks were calculated to thwart and stop that that was fixed as the sum which was unworthy the ex- progress that they would otherwise make in the im penses of litigation. Th e measure, as it at present stood, provement of the health and condition of the people. had been in operation two or three years, and had given, Looking at the low wages, and the want of comforts he believed, very general satisfaction. What effect the among the working-classes, he was astonished they were extension of the jurisdiction might have in enabli ng able to manage as well as they did. The removal of parties to obtain an extension of credit, by the faciliti es this and other taxes would add greatly to their comforts. of recovering it would hold out, remained to be seen. On this ground he hoped the House would express its At present the county courts were little more than an opinion in favour of his motion. experiment, and he urged the House not to interfer e Upon the question being put, with them unnecessarily. If an appeal was given in the Mr. LABOUCHERE said, the Hon. Gentleman had higher courts, he apprehended the law would not work frankly stated what was the intention of this motion— satisfactorily. A ga i n , t h ere wa s the right of examining namely, to elicit the opinion of the House as to the duty the plaintiff and defendant on their oaths—that might on bricks; and that the duty on timber was, to use his work very well w ith regar d to small amounts, but in metaphor, in the same boat. Now it was deemed right larger sums he feared it would be too much for the not to pledge the House to any particular remission un honesty of the p ar ti es . If an appeal was once given in til they had heard the financial statement of his Right all cases above 201. they would destroy their efficacy, Hon. Friend. But if the House were not of that and they would dissatisfy the large body of suitors opinion, he said he would oppose the motion on the who came before that court to recover smaller sums, terms in which his Hon. Friend bad stated in his mo by showing that there was a different law for the poor tion. Who was to define what cottages cost? He had and the rich. It would, in his opinion, shake seen them built at great expense, and which certainly the confidence of the public, and violate the principle could have no claims for exemption. He thought in a case on which they were established. In his posi- of this kind there ought not to be a drawback, because tion he could have no personal feeling or interest in the if granted it would open the door to a great deal of matter. At the same time he did not mean to object to fraud. If there were, too, a drawback upon timber for the introduction of the Bill; but ho could not pledge cottages, then they would be asked for a draw himself to give it his sancti o n at any future stage. He back upon timber use d i n s hi p -b u il d i ng and in mines.— duceth Membernd unless want ed they h to intro d - (Hear, hear.) The n h e d ou b te d very much the policy of encouraging the b u ildi ng o f a l ow class of cottage. thought was thea most prine d ip a i n e ge the dangerous Ho a. n. one,a some better arguments than had been urged by the Hon. He mentioned these things to show what caution should Gentleman that night he hoped the House would not be be used in cases of this description.—(Hear, hear.) As induced to adopt the Bill. to the remission of duties on bricks and timber, it would Sir G. PECHELL sa id, originally no one was so be contrary to his duty on this occasion to express his strenuous an advocate of the measure as the Hon. and opinion. Until the announcement was made by his Learned M e mber f or Ch es t er . When he had introduced Right Honourable Friend in his financial statement he a measure for th e p ur p ose o f extending the jurisdiction would not pronounce an opinion one way or another, of the Sheriff's Court to 501,7 the present Lord Chan- and he said it would be premature for the House to de cellor had supp o rt e d hi m , an d Baron Rolfe had assisted clare its opinion as to a remission of taxation on any him in introdu c ing it. The fact of many parties aban. particular matter. This motion was on its own merits doning a porti on o f t h e i r c l a i ms in order to bring the inexpedient, and ought not to be adopted; he, therefore, debt within the jurisdiction of these county courts was opposed the motion. the best proof of the estimation in which they w e r e Mr. I)RUMMOND thought the conduct which it was held, and the popularity they enjoyed. He hoped the proper for a Minister of the Crown to pursue in such a Hon. Member would be successful in carrying his ease as this was not that which was most proper for a measure. Member of the House to adopt. When the financial Mr. CLAY supported the Bill. The Hon. Gentleman ' had not stated whether he was to extend the appeal to all debts, or to those only above 201. He did not think the additional burden thrown upon the superior courts by these appeals would be of so much consequence as that great weight of business that would be taken off these courts by the transference of business to the county courts. Mr. HENLEY regretted to find that the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General had given his sanction to the ietruduction of the Bill. It would be only consuming another night in discussing its principle, if the Govern ment was prepared to throw it out at a fawns stage. L was admitted on all hands that these courts hat worked extremely well, and so sure as the sun was in the hea vens, if they extended their jurisdiction they would de stroy their utility. It was on that ground that he opposed the measure. Ho wished to know whether Hon. Mem bers who were disposed to do away with imprisonment fir det.t for all sums under 201. were disposed to extend it to 501., or to all sums? If they did so where were they to stop? He regreted. under these circumstances, that if the Government had a strong objection to the Bill they had not at ouce thrown it out. Sir G. GREY had great doubts as to the expediency of extending the jurisdiction of those courts. He had last year stated the grounds ou which he objected to ex tending the sum from 20/. to 501. Mr. FITZROY—That Bill was without an appeal. Sir G. GREY admitted that there was that differ ence, and it was impossible also to deny that there was a strong feeling in the country in favour of the exten sion of the jurisdiction.—(Hear, hear.) The difficulties, however, that beset the question would be best seen when they bad the Bill More them, complicated as it was by the proposition for an appeal and the admission of a bar, and the other attendant circumstances of ordinary courts of law. The principle of these courts was only com patible with the adjudication of small stakes. He should be curious to see what was the extent of the appeal which the Hon. Member proposed to give. If the appeal was to go to the superior courts, the whole value of these jurisdictions would cease. He entertained grave doubts as to the policy of disturbing the present arrange any step o f t h e ki n d t h ey t ill r e o n le t' w bca o e uli u l suettheerlybe'dieesvterdoythtahte value and utility of that system of jurisdiction. resta i g ts e it mi g h t f i nd more fa vouran p ti r n h c a i t o t e h e m y o w r e e r a e t to length. have u le consid ered it exceedingly discussingde sirable Lord I). STUART was glad th e Government did not intend to oppose the Bill, i n e o h p oi p np o e r tdh t u et n ihr i a ty eti, o en f s .a t. that the jut isdiction of these courts should be ex tended. He found, by returns that had been laid before the House, that the proportion of cases under 9 0/. and between 201. and 50/, tried in the superior courts of London and Middlesex, was extremely small, and that was a strong argument in favour of the extension of the jurisdiction. He regretted the Government had not taken up the question. But if his Hon. Friend did not succeed he hoped he would more for a Committee of inquiry into the whole of the subject, which was one deserving the serious attention of the House. Mr. H. BERKELEY took very much the view of the Attorney-General with regard to the effect of the pro posed measure. He feared that the extension of the ju risdiction of these courts would materially affect their utility and value. It was very doubtful whether it would be possible to admit the bar to such a court without first altering the meter° of the judges. He trusted that the Government would not yield an inch from the position taken up by the Attorney-General. Mr. MULLINGS, as a retired practical lawyer, would give his cordial support i n f avour of bringing in he Bill. He did not, however, agree with the Hon. Mover, that all the great expenses incidental to the superior courts went into the pockets of the attorneys. The pleadings alone were enormou s to b r i ng the case to an i ssue. The parties went dow n to the assizes with all their wit nesses, having pr ev i ously given enormous fees to their counsel. They were then often obliged to wait for seve ral days before the cause could be tried. For all these proceedings the attorney did not get ono farthing beyond the money he expended; and at last he, perhaps, had the pleasure of recovering 50/., after having incurred an expenditure of GO/. or 70/., while the unhappy plaintiff had probably to pay 40/. or 50/. by the way of extra costs. He thought that these county courts had conferred the greatest benefit upon the country, and that benefit would be considerably increased by extending the jurisdiction of them to claims of 501. He hoped that the proposed measure would also go so far as to bring in equitable matters, which in the ordinary course of things did not come within the cognisance of a court of law. He did not think that there would be any difficulty in allowing appeals, provided the party so appealing was required to give security for costs. Mr. J. WILLIAMS said it was not an uncommon thing in the trade to which he belonged to sue persona owing 301. or 351. in the county courts, the claimants thus consenting to abandon the excess over 20/., in order to render it recoverable in that way. But the effect of this was to give encouragement to fraudulent debtors to refuse payment until they were compelled by these courts, being thus assured of being able to get rid of their liabilities in an easy way. Great injustice would be done to all such claimants if the jurisdiction of these courts was not increased. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. BRICKS AND TIMBER DUTIES. Mr. HUME then rose to move that this House, taking into consideration the condition of the cottages of the labourers of this kingdom, and the want of adequate accommodation for their families, is of opinion that a drawback should in future be allowed on the br:cks and timber employed in the construction of cot tages the rent of which shall be under 4/. per annum, es a means of lessening the expense of their erection. H e hoped that the same unanimity as had existed in the discussion upon the previous question would prevail in the consideration of the present motion. Early in that session he took au opportunity of reminding the Go vernment that if they had any money to sparo it might be applied with great advantage in such a way as to give effect to such a proposition as the present. Much to the credit of the House and the country a strong die position was manifaeted recently to pay attention t 9 the statement had beers made, then Ministers would say tha, the case was then made up—that it was then too late to listen to any other proposal.—(Hear.) He believed it was not the intention of the House to do injustice to the poorer classes—that when injustice was done it was be cause the House was not aware that it was doing injustice. (Hear.) If the relief now asked for were granted, he admitted that it would not be universally felt, because it would he of no use in the northern and other parts of the country, where there were abundance of mate rials for building; there were, however, other parts of the country, and especially those with which he was best acquainted, on which this relief would confer a very great benefit. A gentleman anxious to build cottages for the poor could not do so at a less expense than 1001. each. In such places, a tradesman from a neighbouring town could build the same sort of cottage, let it for 101., and the occupier made the rent by letting the rooms to whole families, and thus, while the gentry were endea vouring Login) three rooms to each family, the plan was destroyed by some adjoining tradesman. In consequence of lessening the size of farms, he foresaw that there must be a very great increase of farm buildings. Now, much expense was caused in building by the high price of bricks. The tax increased the price of bricks by two thirds. In some places the benefit would be very small, in other cases it would be very great. Ho hoped in sup porting this motion there would be no sneer against him and others of having ulterior motives, in voting for a repeal of the tax, which they would vote for, because ,they conceived it would be an essential relief to the agriculturists. Now, he voted for this, though he did not vote with the Noble Lord against the window duty— they must have houses—there was no use in windows without houses.—(Laughter.) He would oppose the remission of any tax which did not bear directly upon the working classes. He said he did not want to em barrass the Government; but he said if they wanted money, let them not take their taxes from the poverty of the country.—(Hear.) Mr. YE I'O supported the motion. He could point out cases where 20 persons were found occupying two rooms. He believed the remission of the duty on bricks would put an end to this evil. Until it was at an end there could be no classification of the poorer classes. Lord C. HAMILTON was glad the Hon. Member for Montrose had brought this subject before the House; he only regretted he had not brought it forward in a more comprehensive manner. There was no question that more materially affected the well-being of the work ing classes than this. Mr. MITCHELL said, if the Hon. Member should go to a division on this subject, he would support it. He differed in the opinion that had been expressed on this subject by the Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade, that such motion should not be brought forward until the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been made, and no proposal for a remission of tax ation submitted to the consideration of the House until then. At the present moment a drawback was allowed on all timber used in the erection of churches; and ho did not apprehend that, with ti vigilant control, there would be any danger of fraud if a drawback were also allowed upon bricks. Should the Hon. Member for Montrose again bring forward his motion, however, he trusted that be would give the; House some idea how fraud was to be avoided. Being of opinion that a good case existed for a revision of this tax, he should sup port the motion of his Hon. Friend. Mr. R. 'PALMER agreed with Lord C. Hamilton upon the prudence of not pressiug this motion at this moment. But he was strongly of opinion that it would be exceedingly advantageous to repeal the duty upon bricks altogether, and that such a measure would be quite as useful as a repeal of the window-tax.—(Hear.) It' the Hon. Member intended to confer a benefit upon the owners and occupiers of small cottages, he would be doing so to a much greater extent by proposing the total repeal of the duty upon bricks than by this proposition for allowing a drawback. Mr. HEY WORTH supported the motion, and ob• served that he thought this discussion would lead, ulti mately, into a general revision of the duty upon every article that entered into the consumption of the people. Mr. HUME, in reply, said that his object had been to ascertain the opinion of the House, and it appeared that that opinion was decidedly in favour of an entire and total repeal of the duty.—(Hear, hear.) He was not much in the habit of proposing half measures, and in doing so in the present instance he must confess that he had signally tailed.—(Laughter. and hear, hear.) The Hon Gentleman then intimated that, with the leave of the House, he would withdraw his motion. Motion withdrawn accordingly. MANAGEMENT OF RAILWAY TRAFFIC. Mr. RICAItDO moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the better regulation of railway traffic. The Hon. Mem ber briefly alluded to the numerous inconveniences which were attendant upon the present system; the want of uniformity of tolls—tbe danger incurred by the pas sengers in having to change carriages upon their journey —the meaner in which the " points" were worked at the junctions, and other evils and inconveniences; and said , that the object of his BRI was to provide an efficient remedy with which Hon. Members might make them selves acquainted immelately upon the Bill being printed.—Leave given. Viscount EMLYN moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the laws relating to highways in South Wales. Mr. C. LEWIS admitted that there did exist certain reasons why the highways in South Wales should be under a separate system of management, and being of that opinion he would not oppose the motion of the Noble Lord.—Leave given. EXTRA-MURAL INTERMENTS. Mr. LACY moved for leave to bring in a Bill for pro moting extra-mural interments. The Hon. Gentleman staid he. dared say some Hon. Members would be startled at his project; but the proposition was simply to allow railway companies, with the sanction of the Railway Commissioners, to hold cemeteries. He proposed that, after having obtained the approbation of the share holders and the Commissioners, these companies shoul d be empowered to purchase a sufficient quantity of waste land at a convenient distance, say twenty-five or thirty miles, from the metropolis, and thereon construct a ce msterY• conmeed that hv one genera con" 1 tery would be sufficient for the m e t ro p o li s; an d that by giving the differeut companies this power, it would Le for the public benefit, at the same time that the compa nies themselves would find it to be a good commercial speculation.—(Laughter.) Sir G. GREY had not very clearly collected the real purport of the Bill of the Hon. Gentleman from the ex planation which he had given; but, in principle, he thought that to empower railway companies to become cemetery companies was most objeetionable. As the whole questi on mus t come b e f ore Parliament at a very early period, when the report of the Board of Health would be before them, he trusted the Honourable Gen tleman would not for the present persevere with his Bill.—(Hear.) Lord ASHLEY said that last year the duty was en trusted to the Board of Health of preparing a scheme for the consideration of Parliament on this subject, and that that scheme had been prepared. But he was sorry that it was not yet in the hands of Hon. Members. It would be ready in a few days, however—he hoped to morrow or Thursday morning —and until it was before them he thought the House should not proceed with the consideration of the Bill of the Hon. Member for Bodunin. Mr. LACY merely wished to bring in his Bill, in order that it might be seen and considered side by side with the report of the Board of Health. He believed that the House would find, upon consideration, that without such a measure as he proposed they would never be able to carry out any compulsory Act for preventing int'rments in cities and towns.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. WYLD was surprised that the Home Secretary should have opposed the introduction of a measure of this kind. He thought his Bill would not clash with any recommendation which was likely to emanate from the Board of Health. He therefore moved for leave te bring in this Bill. Mr. LABOUCHERE said it was always an ungra cious task to oppose a Bill on the motion for leave to bring it in; and it was so in this case, especially where the Hon. Gentleman had directed great attention to the subject. The Hon. Gentleman had done him the honour to convoy information to him from time to time as to the objects he had in view, but he felt it to be a duty ho owed to the House, as the result of that information, to say that he thought the House ought not to allow this Bill to be brought in. He thought the Bill was founded on principles which the House never could sanction, He was opposed to thrusting upon the Railway Commis sioners functions which were so foreign to their sphere of operations. He really thought there was no chance of the Bill passing a second reading. Mr. AGLIONBY did not think the Bill was open to the objections which had been stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He begged to ask the Hon. Gentleman whether there was any compulsive powers to take land, or whether the powers were . permissive only ? If the powers given were only permissive, why wait for the re port of the Board of Health? Hitherto in all legisla tion on the subject they had been bound by considera tions of pounds, shillings, and pence, and the interests of those who were to receive burial fees. Mr. LACY said his object was to make the major part of the powers compulsory, the minor powers migh be taken as compulsory. Mr. M. J. O'CONN - ELL thought that the report of the Sanitary Commissioners should be laid before the House before any measure of the kind was brought in. He thought the Hon. Gentleman would best consult the convenience of the House by postponing the motion till the report of the Commissioners, which the Noble Lord the Member for Bath had stated would be on the table in a few days, was fairly before the House and the country. _ _ AN - Holz. MEMBER hoped the Hon. Gentlemen would not divide. After a few words in explanation from Sir G. GREY, The motion was withdrawn. THE BOARD OF TRADE. Mr. MOFFATT moved for an address to her Ma jesty for a return showing the names of the members of her Majesty's Privy Council constituting the Committee appointed for the consideration of matters relating to trade and foreign plantations ; the functions of the said Committee ; the number of members of said Committee that constitute a quorum for the dispatch of business ; the number of times the Committee met in the twelve months ending Dec. 31, 1849 ; and the number of mem bers of said committee that attended each meeting. This motion was made on account of the present alarm which prevailed in consequence of the new and extensive powers assumed by the Board of Trade. Great anxiety was felt to know what really were the functions of the Board of Trade. Mr. LABOUCHERE said if he objected to this motion he assured the Hon. Gentleman it was not from any wish to refuse the information required. But no Parliamen tary grounds had been made for the production of this return. He could give the names of those who consti tuted the Board of Trade, and everybody knew that the Court Circular would give this information. The func tions of the board had been fully described by Mr. John Lefevre, and he (Mr. Labouchere) objected to give the information in the shape of a return. It was not the practice of th e board to transact business as a board, though it included numerous members of the Privy Council, &c. The usual course of business was trans- acted on the single responsibility of the head of the department. Nlr. MOFFATT said that after what bad fallen from ;he Right lion. Gentleman he was satisfied. Motion withdrawn. The orders of the day were then read:— COMDIONS - ENCLOSURE BILL Read a third time and passed. PROCESS AND PRACTICE (IRELAND)—SALA RIES AND CONIPENSATLON BILL. Committee thereon. House resumed. Report to be received to-morrow (this day). Mr. FOX brought up the Scculsr Education Bill, which was read a first time. The [louse was adjourned at Twelve o'clock. ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION BILL. HOUSE OF LORDS, FEn. 25. The following is a list of the Minotites on the Fcclesi astical Commission Bill : FIRST DIVISION. Devon Grey Granville Minto Strafford Waldegrave ISARONS. Ashburton Campbell Colborne PAIRS. Lord Chancellor MARQUISES. Breadalbane Ctanricarde Donegal BARONS. Dunally Eddisbury Elphinstoue Foley 3ionteagle Saye and Sele Sudeley Wodehouse lirrottesley EARLS. Besborough Carlisle C harlemont Craven Lord De Freyne Marquis of Salisbury Earl of Suffolk Marquis of Londonderry Lord Milford Lord De Lisle Marquis of Anglesey Earl Somers Lord Dufferin Lord De Ros SECOND DIVISION. Lord Chancellor EARLS. MARQUISES. Granville Dunaily Breadalbane Grey Elphinstono Clanricarde Miato Foley Donegal Strafford Saye and &le EARLS. Waldegrave Sudeley Charlemont BARONS. Wodehouse Carl sle Campbell Wrottesley PAIRED AFTER THE FIRST DIVISION. Lord Monteagle Earl of Cardigan Lord Colborne Lord Walsingham Lord Eddisbury Earl of Malmesbury BARONS. TO THE SECRETARY OF THE BRADFORD REFORM ASSOCIATION. Sir,—On Monday the 25th, an extraordinary scene was enacted in the House of Commons, by the persevering opposition of the anti-Ministerial side to the progress in Committee, of the Bill fur increasing the number of voters in Ireland. The ground stated, was the absence of some Members at the Irish As sizes. Of course each side thought it was taking a prudent course ; though the prevailing opinion seems to be, that eight divisions with increasing majorities on the part of the Government, ranging as high as 2i to 1, were a charitable mode of doing away with any damage which might have been received from the smallness of the majority on a preceding evening. The result, however, was, that not one step was gained towards the progress of the Bill. If' any body iu Ireland is disappointed, he must set it down to the politicians who could hot stir a step without their men at the Assizes. In the early part of the evening, the Government made some damaging admissions, received with shouts of laughter by the House, on the subject of not issuing the pieces called florins. if the Government had their wits about them when they withdrew from the coins a stupid phrase, con demned long since by the good sense of our ancestors, why did not they stand to it, and who were the parties before whom they quailed ? If they knew they had not the courage to resist the outcry which bigots and serviles might raise, why did they volunteer the occasion ? It is this building of walls to run their own heads against, which has ever been characteristic of the Liberals in the Go vernment. But if the Government have no plan, their enemies have. It is all portion of a scheme for representing them as what the bigots call " godless," and so proceeding from less to more, for the chance of any retrogression towards the illumination of the middle ages. On Tuesday a motion for removing the duty on Attorneys' Certificates was postponed, in a way which was not considered as favourable to ultimate success. The hardship in this case appears to be, that a particular class should be subjected to a duty on the exercise of their calling, when they pay all the other taxes to which members of the community are sub ject. The plea sometimes urged, that they throw the duty on their employers,. is of the ordinary class of fallacies with which questions of the incidence of tax ation are encumbered. The motion of the Member for Oldham for leave to t b i r o i n n , g w i n a s a s ß u i c l l c e f s e s r f u t l h e t promotion to the Secu lar AE result ciliatory manner in which its n r fullest o e f xt ent. undoubtedly to be attributed t t o o t d h u e c a ti b o l n e and c co on n : i ducted by the mover. I am, Sir, you A r isr obe o d L ie D nt s R er E v F an o t, RMER. London, 27th February, 1850. GENERAL STEAM NAVIGATION COMPANY.—The soth half-yearly general meeting of this Corporation was held yesterday at their offices, 71, Lombard-street; John Wilkin, Esq., in the chair. The directors' report and a statement of the accounts of the half-year ending the 31st December last, were read to the meeting. The report having been unanimously adopted by the proprie tors, the usual dividend and bowls were declared, when, the meeting separated, highly gretifitd with the non• tinting prosperity of the =VW. George Matthews, music seller, Monmouth, March 12 and April 9, at eleven, at the Bristol District Court.. Acraman, official assignee, Bristol ; Nicholas, Mon mouth; Bevaus, Bristol. LOUiG Bernard Cnoffin, bookseller, Bristol, March 12 and April 9, at eleven, at the Bristol District Court. Miller, official assignee, Britt )1; Strangways. King's. road, Gray's Inn; Whittington and Gribble, Bristol. . DIVIDENDS. In the Country. L. Elliott, jun., Rochdale, Lancashire, chemist and druggist, March 21, at twelve, at the Court, Manchester —S. Taylor, Poynton, Chester, butcher, March 21, at eleven, at the Court. Manchester. PAYMENT OF DIVIDENDS. 11. G. Astle, 6s, 4d.. on Feb. 28, or any subsequent Thursday, between a even and two, at the office of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall-chambers, Basingball-street. E. Mumford, 55., on Thursday, Feb. 28, or any subse quent Thursday, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall-chambers, Basinghall-street. L. Alexander and W. Bardgett, first and second divi dends of 2s. 2d. and 6d., on new proofs, on Thursday, Feb. 28, or any succeeding Thursday, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall-cham bers, Basinghall-street. R. F. McQueen, Is. O'd., on Thursday, Feb. 28, or any subsequent Thursday, between eleven and two, at the offiee of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall-chambers, Basing hall -street. W. H. Treacher, ss. 10d., on Thursday, Feb. 28, or any subsequent Thursday, between eleven and two, at - the office of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall-chambers, Basing hall -street. W. Minton, Is. sid., on Thursday, Feb. 28, or any subsequent Thursday, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall-chambers, Basioghall street. J. Parrish, 4d., on Thursday, Feb. 28, or any subse quent Thursday, between eleven and two, at the office Of Mr. Pennell, Guildhall-chambers, Basinghall-street. G. W. Wheelhouse, York, banker, 35., on Tuesday, Feb. 26, or any subsequent Tuesday, between eleven and two, at the office of Mr. Hope, Leeds. E. (cyder, Birmingham, jeweller, Bs., on any Friday, between eleven and three, at the office of Mr. Whitmore, Birmingham. NOTICES OF CERTIFICATES. At the Court, Basinghall-street. L. Davy, King-street-terrace, New North-road, and J. Davy, South-street, New North-road, builders, March 22, at half-past one—R. Jones, Castle -street, Holborn, commission agent, March 21, at eleven—W. Tyer, Gos port, boot and shoe maker, March 20, at twelve. In the Country. J. Dixon, Liverpool, grocer and tea dealer, March 21, at eleven, at the Court, Liverpool—J. R. Wright, Leeds, currier, March 21, at eleven at the Court, Leeds—B. Ramaden, Dewsbury, Yorkshire, bone merchant, March 21, at eleven, at the Court, Leeds—G. M. Cowley, Not tingham, bill broker, March 22, at ten, at the Court Not tingham—J. Bowers, J. Bowers, and Sarah Ann Bowers, Worcester, grocers, March 25, at twelve, at the Coact, Birmingham. CERTIFICATES GRANTED. F. Burt, Plymouth, boardinghouse keel er , bookseller, and stationer, certificat e o f th e t hi r d class—H. Pinhey, Plymouth, grocer, certificate of the second class—T. Martin, Nicholas-square, Hackney-road, licensed victu aller, certificate of the second class—J. Reid, Edgware road, Bexley-heath, Woolwich, Rochester, Chatham, and Maidstone, draper —J. Addington, London-road, South wark, oil and colourman and varnish manufacturer, cer tificate of the first class—W. A. Reeves, Maidstone, cabinet maker and upholsterer, certificate of the first class—J. King and J. F. King, Well-row, Islington, builders—E. L. Blackman, Lombard-street, tailor—J. Morrison, Craven-street, Strand, tailor, certiticete ef the first class—R. Belson, Norwich, plumber and glaizer, certificate of the third class—J. Ward, Bishopagate Within, chemist and druggist, certificate of the second class—l. Bennett, Chatham, corn dealer, certificate of the t ecend class—J. Turnbull, Scarborough, Yorkshire, linen and woollendraper, certificate of the first class after twenty-one days from Feb. 21—H. Corbett, Madras, merchant and comission agent, cettificute cf the first class—R. Gibbs, Birmingham, and Northfield, Wor cestershire, corn dealer, certificate of the first class. PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED. H. Fawcus, sen., H. Fawcus, jun., and J. Stephenson, Scaliam, Durham, ship brokers—T. Boughey and L. Allkins, Newport, Shropibire, Inmdvrare and turnery manufacturers—J. Lnycock and J. N. Hanson, Basal), Lancashire, iron and bras.fJunder—ll. G. S. Borth wick and G. A. Wilson, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, nier chants.f. Murton and L. Murtm, Sher?les and Man chester, bleachers—D. Brans) y and W. Nannee, Babing stroke, corn dealers and millers—A. M'Conbell and A. Furbytb, Monks Coppcnhell, Cheshire, drapers—T. Chat:away and M. Chattiway, Birmingham, carriers— W. Tucker, son., W. Tucker, jun , and T. Tucker (so far as regards T. Tucker), La•chet, Buckinghamshire, butchers—Mary Ann Murray and Sarah lion. London. wall, ostrich father Manufacturers—T. Lsycock and J. Jackson, Gate Helmsley, Yorkshire, proprietors of the Gate Helmsley Retreat—F. Wilson arid J. W. Swale, Hanway-street—F. G. Spray and G. Nevett, engineers —T. H. G. Snowden and L. A. Pollock, Ramsgate, at torneys—W. H. Bensted and C. Higgins, Maidstone, hoymen—E. Tomlinson and S. Cooper, Walsall, Stet'. fordshire, ironmongers --J. Scatterthwaite and S. Jack son, Ulverstone, Lancalhire, ironmongers and grocers— R. Battersby and J. Telford, Liverpool, ironfonn ders—J. Edwards and E. J. Scruggs, East Denham, Norfolk, painters—J. Baker and W Baker, Bristol, tilers—S. Druce, P. Lord, and J. Sheldon, Ensham, Oxfordshire, coal merchants —W. Richards, J. Richards, and R. Richards (as far as regards R. Richards), Penzance, mercers and drapers-- J. Pickering and G. Alexander, Wilson-street, Fins bury, dyers—H. Ancell and C. Fagg, Norfolk-crescent, Hyde-park, Grove-road, St. John's-wood, and Church street, Lisson-grove, surgeons—S. Billingsley, jun., W. J. Miall, and 0. J. Williams (so far as regards W. J. Miall), Harwich, shipping agents—J. Hudson and R. Hudson, Hartlepool, Durham, ship brokers—E. H. Jones, W. J. Jones, T. B. Jones, R. G. J ones , A. J ones, and T. Jones (so far as regards E. H. Jones, W. J. Jones, T. B. Jones, and R G. Jones), Birmingham, iron founders. INSOLVENT PETITIONERS. Henry Phipps, Southnewington, Oxfordshire, gardener. David Thomas, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, paint-r. John Spencer, Loughborough, Leicestershire, horse dealer. Merena Edwards, Weill, Shropshire, farmer. John Wildon, Great Driffield, Yorkshire, tailor. Joseph Nicholson, Great Driffield, Yorkshire, cooper. Thomas Grimbly, Stratford-upon-Avon, commercial cleric. Frederick Fisher, Snare near Brookland, Kent, farm bailiff. Robert Palmer, Cullompton, Devonshire, mason. William May, Yatton, Somersetshire, auctioneer. John Backnell, Hockworthy, Devonshire. John Milsom, St. George, Gloucestershire, servant. Walter Carter, Bristol, commission agent. William J. Come, Chatham, totarteontst. William J. Youlton, Bristol, accountant. John Hickmutt, Rochester. Henry Dawes, Great Malvern, Worcestershire, coach proprietor. David Wood , Huddersfield, Slubber. SCOTCH SEQUESTRATIONS. W. Ferrie, Anstruther Eastate, Fifoshire dealer in shares and printselle r , t o meet w i thin the Albert Hotel, Cupar-Fife, Feb. 28 and March 28, at one. J. Howie, Glasgow, undertaker and carriage hirer, to meet within the Albert Tavern, Glasgow, March 2 and 23, at three. A. Ballantine, Musselburgh, grocer, to meet within the Star Hotel, Edinburgh, M arc h 4 and 22, at two. J. Smart, Elgin, builder, to meet within the Royal Hotel, Elgin, March 4 and 25, at one. to J . e a si ß gi v ie d t d , i t e o , E m d e i e n t b v, u , r it g i h d , n i t turs i c o e o b of ro c k ,t e y r sanndd Black,writer Edinburgh, March 4 and 25, at twelve. — ' HE NEW NOVEL, ".Prideby the au th or of "The Disci. p p l u i b n l e i s hoefdLtibfe:daeyctbiytlezadas o y l ü b t e i o n h , a " d at i is all the libraries. Also , 2 . The S cottish Cavalier, b y r Colburn , and and lu m e James Grant,:Esq.„author of " The Gordon Highlanders," Meer. &c. 3. Adventures of a G old finder, written b y him. self. 4. The Petrel , a Tal e of the Sea, b y a Naval 5. The Wilmingtons, by the author of " Emilia Wyncl. h am ." 6. Passages in the Life of Mrs. Margaret Mait land of Sunny Side, written by herself, second edition. the o f Health;wh i ch the 7. Leonard Normandale; or, T he Three Brothers, by the Hon. C. Stuart Savile. [A DVERTI SEMENT.] —INTRAMUR AL I NTERMENTS. — e m Billth e remedies e s importantstated and report m rec 0 ofm recommended, Board , on will le founded for the consideration of Parlia tnent,e ere carefully abridged and ori g i na t e d i n last Sunday morn ing's Observer, to the ( xtent of four folio o I a half. The Observer is regu l arly publishe d , c ns and a'. four o'clock on Sunday mornings, in time f ur all the early Sunday mornin g railways. On Sunday next, March 3, the Observer will to printed with an ' entire new type, from the foundry of the Messrs. iggi F . ' ns. Price of the Observer, 40 columns. 6d. [ADVERTISE mEN• T.]— An Awful Bad Leg, with 15 Wounds in it, Cured by Holloway's Ointment and Pills. — Extract of a letter from Mrs. Sarah Eastment, of Haselbury, near Crewkerne, dated April 16, 1849. To Professor Hol loway,g' A '' -n----wout six years ago certain unfavourable symptoms manifested themselves in my left leg, which proved to be scro fula and King's evil, and at one time there were 15 wounds about my ancle. For four months I was in Cheltenham Hos.. pital, and there pronounced as incureable; from thence I went to King's College Hospital, there also they failed to effect a cure, end I was obliged to return home a complete cripple; in this state I commenced using your Ointment and Pill s which have perfectly c ur e d m y hir• Sold by all tirmists, and at Professor Holloroy's atabliohm ol 9 244, litfut4 London. FROM THE LONDON GAZETTE OF TUESDAY. BANKRUPTS. Abraham Wheeler, cabinetmaker, Buckingham, to surrender March 12, at half-past eleven, and April 11, at one, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Johnson, official assignee, Basinghall-street ; Shuckburgh Ris Dmighty-street, Mecklenburgh-square. James Starkey, carpenter, Old-street, St. Luke's, March 12, at two, and April 16, at eleven, at the Cour* of Bankruptcy. Edwards, official assignee, Sambrook ! court. Basinghall-street; Hine and Robinson, Chart . 1 4 0 :r- - house-sq uare . Charles Joseph Carttar, solicitor, Greenwich, Mart att aciVut SA' 12, at twel ve , an d March' 26, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Stansfeld, official assignee ; Nias, Cop thall-court, Throgmorton-street. John Berryhill Cross, watoh maker, Cornhill, March 16, at one, and April 13, at eleven, at the Court of Bank-. ruptcy. Johnson, official assignee, 13asingliall-street; Krinp, Henrietta-street, Covunt-garden. John Dale Woodcock, calvhderer, Leeds,'March 12, at twelve, and April 9, at elt Yen, at the Leeds District Court. Hope, assignee, Leeds; Middleton, Leeds.