The Sun. — London, England, 1845-06-17 00:00:00

ti,AILWAY COMMITTEES. GROUP L. by firs and surrounded by wood. From this hill Lord Grantley's communication would be almost entirely cut off. It then passed through a wood which was a very beautiful object, and the witness expected that the cutting would entirely destroy it as a feature of the landscape. The embankments and the viaduct would be all seen from the windows of Lord and Lady Grantley's apartments, and if this railway were made, was quite certain that it would drive his brother from Wonersh, because Lord Grantley's chief pleasure was driving, and the railway would make it so dangerous as to be Impossible. Altogether it would be a serious detriment to the property. The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow. PORTSMOUTH ATMOSPHERIC LINE. (YESTERDAY.) The Committee resumed on this line at twelve to-day, Mr. E. B. Denison in the chair, with all the other members of the Corn. mittee present, when, according to arrangement on Friday, the in. quisition was taken on the interference with Lord Grantley's pro perty by the atmospheric line. Our readers will recollect that we have stated the circumstances as alleged by the counsel on both sides. The line intersected a portion of his Lordship's property, cutting off a portion of the park, and then passing between Lord Grantley's property and that of Mr. Sparks, so affected the residences of both as to destroy the privacy of their houses and interfere very greatly with those features of the locality. Both the cutting and the em. bankment were equally objectionable. The one would destroy the view from the house, and the other would altogether interrupt the enjoyment from the immediate lands. Lord Grantley was in the habit of driving four-in-hand, and had within the last five or six years expended upwards of 20,000/. in the improvement of the pro- perty. Mr. Sparks, the other petitioner, lived about a mile off at Gosden House, but from the course which the railway took, he closely adjoined the railway. It took part of his lawn and quite interrupted his view down the vale of Bromley, which was very beautiful. The property, as it happened, was very narrow, and the line took fully a mile from this property, so that, in fact, its pecuniary value was very greatly reduced, The residents at Wonersh were within three miles of Guildford, where they had the advantage of a railway already formed. He had row only to lay the evidence before the Committee, and if it was proved that equal advantages would be obtained to the public HOUSE of LORDS. TIM scan= 11.2:71? NCE.TH razimarcn The Select Committee appointed to investigate this case assem. bled to-day, at three o'clock, the Marquis of Clanricarde in the chair. The Bill being unopposed, the Committee declared it to have passed. The Noble Chairman will report to the House. The Standing Orders Committee, Lord Shaftesbury, Chairman, also assembled at three o'clock, and resolved themselves into a Committee on unopposed Railway Bills. The following Bills were then declared to have passed the Com mittee:—The Bedford and London Railway; the Shrewsbury, Os westry, and Chester Railway; the Manchester and Leeds Railway; the Burnley, Oldham, and Haldham Railway ; the Berks and Wants Railway; the Lowestoff Railway and Harbour; the Kendal and Windermere Railway; the North British Railway; the Yarmouth and Norwich Railway; and the London and Greenwich Railway. GROUP P. THE SOUTH WALES RAILWAY. On the re-assembling of the Committee on this group today, the business was commenced by Mr. LAW calling and examining Mr. Giles, civil engineer, who deposed that he had seen the line, of the proposed South Wales Railway, and was acquainted with the country through which it passed. It appeared to him that the trunk line in Pembrokeshire did not embrace the principal towns in that country, and that the branch lines were not well adapted for the mineral districts. The principal traffic into South Wales passed thro .gh Bristol, by way of the old ferry, called the Aust; Gloucester constituted the second passage for traffic coming from the southwestern parts of England into Wales; and it also commanded the traffic arriving from the north and south. 'fhe tide of the Severn rose more rapidly than the tide of any other river in Europe, and its water was charged with mud in solution. The proposed bridge would offer a great obstacle to the navigation. At high tides the troves would have to unship their masts in going through the arch. During this process they would be rendered unmanageable, owing to the rapidity of the tide, and would most probably be hurled broadside against the piers of the bridge. At the point where it is intended to make the canal be. tween Hock Crib and Farmslow, the river rose nine feet, and the tide was so rapid that it would preclude the entrance of vessels into the canal. At every tide there would be a deposit of alluvial matter outside the lock.gates, which would require to be removed by the power of sluices or other mechanical means, for otherwise there existed no method of " scouring" the deposit. The canal would not be supplied with fresh water, which was necessary for preventing a sediment. He did not consider that a long port in winter would have any effect on the tidal water. The best point for crossing the river for the northern traffic was most undoubtedly at Gloucester, and for the south traffic the passage of the Aust Ferry was desirable. The level of the ground on the Bristol side was quite sufficient to permit of the construction of a suspension bridge of a proper height, but on the Chepstow side piers would be re. quired. The engineering difficulties on the line were objection. able, but not impracticable, and the expense of construction had Leen under.estimated. He considered that bridges of the magni tude which it was contemplated being made should not be con. structed of timber, because the worm in tidal water invariably de stroyed timber, and he knew many instances of timber bridges that had not lasted more than eight or ten years, owing to the ravages of the worm. It was called the augur worm, and.it bored its way through the wood in every direction, and there were no means at present discovered to prevent its ravages. He thought the bridges should be built with stone abutments and iron tops. The general estimate:for the entire line was, in his opinion, too small; it should have been taken at 4,000,0001. sterling, which was 1,200,0001. more than was proposed to be raised. Looking at that line as 211 miles in length, and regarding also the different works connected with its construction, the bridge across the Severn, the tunnels, and other matters, it ap peared to him that the cost of the railway would be on the average 20,0001. per mile for a double line laid down on the broad gauge. He would endeavour to show the points which had induced him to come to that opinion : for some of the particular works he would take Mr. Brunei's own estimate:— The Committee then adjourned till one o'clock to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. GROUP A. SOUTH-EASTEI?.N LINE. The Committee having met this day, at the usual hour, Mr. Sergeant WRANGHAM proceeded to the cross.exarnination of Mr. Bidders, but the evidence given contained no material point that had not been previously published. The CHAIRMAN observed that General Lord Bloomfield was present, and wished to make a correction as to a part of his evidence which had been misunderstood. by the line which was proposed by the South-Western Company as by the other, he trusted they would approve of that line which was likely to be beneficial to the public, and yet not injurious to private interests. General Lord Bloomfield then pointed out a mistake in a copy of his evidence which had been forwarded to him, and in which a statement, made with reference to the South-Eastern, had been applied to the North Kent line. Mr. Baillie Denton, a Surveyor, of twelve years' standing, stated that he had surveyed the property, and had seen the deposited plans, and according to the quantity of earthwork which would have to be done, by those plans the expense for two furlongs back from the thirteenth mile, and six furlongs forward from the twentieth mile, would be 34,1621. Is. 6d. ; and going by Albury and Shalford, the earthwork would be 25,0591. Os. 10d. For the two lines respectively, the expense of bridges, would be, on the pro posed line 21,1441. ss. 6d., while on the deposited line it would only be 14,9391. 7s. The excess of the permanent way would be 4001. The gradients on the original line were also better, the most Mr. Bidders' cross-examination was then continued—He spoke a', some length as to the number of junctions formed by the South-Eastern and the number formed by the North Kent line. Mr. RODE observed that he had a communication to make to the Committee, and requested that they should retire for the purpose. The CHAIRMAN assented, and the Committee accordingly retired for some time. severe on that line being 1 in 100, while on the proposed line it is 1 in 80, while the interference with property would not be so objectionable. The CHAIRMAN interposed, and stated that he thought this was not quite according to the rule of evidence. On the return of the members of the Committee, __ ___ Mr. WRANGHAM proceeded to examine Mr. Bidders as to some portions of the proposed line which were not included in the esti mates of the Company, and also as to a level crossing which must be made by the proposed line over the now existing Croydon (locomotive) line, and which might interfere with the right of way of the Croydon Company. At Deptford it would be ne ces-ary to throw tour streets into one. This street would have 150 trains passing in 15 hours; se that 10 times in each hour the gates must be shut, and no person could pass through the street. This would produce no great inconvenience, as the short trains would pass in one minute, and the long ones in three minutes, and thetratEc of the street was very small and unimportant. A large number of houses must be removed at Deptford, but they would be houses cf very small value, and which would be much better removed. At Dartford Creek the line would cross a swing- bridge. He did not think there would be any danger from such a bridge in this instance, as the creek was at that point very narrow, like a canal. In general a brick bridge was preferable to a swing bridge. Tn entering London the South-Eastern line would pass through the Deaf and Dumb Asylum, where the noise could give no annoyance to the inhabitants.—(A laugh.) It was necessary to pass through the Asylum in order to avoid two churches. It was impossible to enter London without some such inconvenience. Mr. AUSTIN stated that, according to the decision of the Speaker of the House of Commons, it was not competent for counsel to put in plans or sections made by any other parties than under the orders of the landowners. Mr. Denton then stated that he had surveyed the line by the orders of Lord Grantley's solicitor, and that he knew his Lord. ship's property and every other landowner's on the line. In the neighbourhood of Lord Grantley's property the embankment was intended to be begun at seven feet high, shortly after emerging from the cutting ; and from the spot he had seen the windows of the principal apartments in the house, and from the house he had seen the spot where the embankment would be placed. The highest part of the embankment would be nearest the house, and oecicledly there would be danger to a person driving a four.in hand from the viaduct, which came close to the turn of the road. It was intended to carry the line within 150 yards of Lord Grant- gate, and would touch his brother's house, the place where General Norton had lived. The line would be within 150 yards of Mr. R. Sparke's, and the cutting would be immediately behind it. Mr J. Sparke's house, near Godalming, would be within 200tyards, and the limits of deviation would bring it within 100 yards. In deed, it would greatly interfere with the property, but that, he thought, might be a matter of compensation. But the injury to the house would be beyond compensation. In several instances the datum line differed in its basis. Mr. AUSTIN, on the part of the promoters of the atmospheric line, objected to the evidence as leading to the contravention of the decision of the Standing Orders' Committee. This had been decided on the London and York line the other day, where, ac cording to the observation of the Chairman, the engineer had ad mitted that his assistants had made such an error in their sections as would have let in the North Sea, and rendered the construc tion of the line as laid down impossible. After some evidence on uninteresting points connected with the levels of the proposed line at Chatham, Rochester, and Stroud, and with some inaccuracies in the plans of the South-Eastern Com. pany, the Committee adjourned at five minutes to four o'elock. GROUP GG. GLASGOW JUNCTION RAILWAY. The Committee ow this group re-assembled at twelve, but it was nearly one o clock before business was commenced, owing to the ab,ience of Mr. Muntz and Viscount Grimston. At the latter hour Mr. Muntz entered, having but just arrived in town from Birmingham, and the proceedings of the day were commenced by Mr. Hope calling, on the part of 11r. Campbell of Blytheswood, one of the opponents, Mr. Gunning persisted in his right to examine on this point. The CHAIRMAN pointed out the peculiar features of the two cases, ana showed that Mr. Cobitt had betn put into the box, and ought to have been examined on that point, but conceived that the wit ness might be examined. Mr. J. Kyle, a land-surveyor in Glasgow, who was examined as to the nature and difficu:ties of the strata through which the tunnel beneath the Blytheswood property would pass, and the effect which the termini in Bothwell-street would haveupon the surrounding valuable property. The witness exhibited a model of the newer portions of the city where the proposed line would inter. sect them. the witness added, that at a certain depth the pro. Looters would eome at quick.sands, which, he thought, would pre sent insuperable difficu:ties to the progress of the works. Mr. J. Collie, architcct, was examined, and after giving evidence in corroboratkn of that given by the previous witness, adced that the valuation of property made by himself showed that the pro. moters' estimates were 100,0001. below what they ought to be. Mr. W. Broome, builder, Glasgow, had been extensively em. ployed on • the Blytheswood estate. Had examined the bores made by Mr. Keyle with the view of testing the quality of the soil. 1-le found that a considerable proportion of it was runivir.g sand, or quicksand, aud his experience told him that such a foundation was the very worst that could be had for building purposes of any kind. He considered that Mr. Collie's valuation was a most reasonable one, and not in any degree too high. That valuation would be some 100,0004 above that furnished by the promoters. Mr. Denton, to Mr. Mrs Tux, replied that his clerks had obtained a copy of the plani deposited at the Private Bill Office. To this Mr. AUSTIN objected u not being evidence. They ought to have been obtai.red by the witness himself. He denied that there was any error in the sections. The CHAIRMAN said that of the copies before the Committee .hey must send for the original. Mr. AUSTIN stated that, according to the standing or ders, the original was deposited with the Clerk of the Peace for the county. He objected to the dis cussion altogether, and begged to put the case formally before the Committee. On looking at the petition of Lord Grantley he saw that there was no al,egation of errors its the sections whatever. By the 66th standing order it appeared that no petition on a private Bill shall be laid before the Committee which did not distinctly allege the objection to such private Bill ; and that no petitioner should be heard, except on the points stated in the peti tion. If a distinct ground were alleged in the petition, but not accurately stated, that then it should be in the discretion of the Committee to allow the bounds of inquiry. As there waa no alle gation of error in the sections, clearly the counsel could not be heard upon it. Mr. John Bennie had heard the evidence given by his friends Messrs. Collie and Mr. Broome, and he fully concurred in their valuation. The CHAIRMAN apprehended that the object of the standing orders which had been cited was for one party to give nctice to the other of the ground of objection which it was intended to allege. , ,Mr. GUNNING conceived that the error in those sections was so great as to be fatal to the line, and that therefore he wis en titled to put in evidence to that effect—especially as there was a distinct statement in the petition that the line by Guildford was the better line of the two, and on this ground he conceived he was justified in objecting against any evidence for the atmospheric line, and these sections were certainly part of the evidence. The Corn. mittee might see that the line was impossible from the sections: they would be entitled to decide against the line. Mr. AUSTIN said that the objection must go to the extent of stating that the line could not be constructed at all. Consequently, if the objection was that the other line was better than this, it was nothing mole than saying that the other line was better than one which never came into existence, which was an absurdity. There was nothing in the petition to show that there was an objection to the plans and sections, and therefore there was, to use the ex pression, " nothing to amend the Court," and the objection of the other side v;4B, therefore, untenable. Mr. J. Hayman, cuter, in Glasgow, had been in the habit of carting for a considerable period to the most considerable merchants of Glasgow, and his general rate was is. a ton. Few goods were stored in Glasgow, and the through traffic would therefore be of a very limited character. The goods' managers at the railway stations.were in error when they quoted the charges at 2s. 6d. per 'ton. Another witness, called to corroborate the preceding evidence wa under examixation when the Committee adjourned. GROUP K. V7VMMIIAiii AND DE2M7BLAIIII LINE. The Committee on this line resumed this morning at th• usual hour, the Members present being Viscount Sandon (Chairman), J. L. Ricardo, R. Cobden, and %V. Martin, Esep. Mr. Pare, examined by Mr. CALVERT—Has been engaged to draw up an account of the present traffic oil the road between Wyndham and East Dereham, and a sketch of the probable accession upon the construction of a air' ct hne of railway between those towns. The entire revenue which he anticipated for that line would be 24,919/.. while that for the circuitous line by Wyndham would net exceed 19,4891. The former would perform the journey by travelling over fifteen miles in forty-five minutes, and the latter t,%enty.two miles in one hour, six minutes, leaving a balance of twenty-one minutes iu favour of the former. Has examined the traffic tables put in by the other side, and finds that the iacrease anticipated by them between Wyndham and Dereham is 50 per cent., while between Attleborough and Disc it is rated at 100 per cent. upon the very same data. The population of Norwich, by the cen. ails of 1831, was 56,134, and in 1841, 62,341. being en increase of only 2 per cent., while in the ten years between 1821 and 1831 the increase was more than 21 per cent. The bridge and canal of the Severn The Forest of Dean Railway The harbour at Brimshill The harbour at Fishguard Excavations.. Stations .... £200,000 64,000 20,000 60,000 582,000 100,000 .... .. Total All these items had been taken from Mr. Brunel's own statements, and he was not inclined to say they were insufficient. The points which, in his opinion, would cost more than had been laid down in the estimates of Mr. Brunel were, in the first place, the tunnels. He (Mr. Giles) had estimated that there were altogether 7,719 yards, which would cost, on the average, 501. per yard, and not 301 per yard, s Mr. Brunel had stated, making a total of 395.9501. for tunnelling. No estimate of the lands necessary to be taken had been taken. He should take it at about 200 miles, and looking at what had been paid Sr.. similar pr,perty by existing railways, he should calculate the expense of the land at 3,0001. per mile, the result of which would be 600,0001.. The permanent way, consisting •f 204 miles, he had estimated at 5,0001. per mile, which would yield a total of 1,020,0001 The bridges on the entire line, with the exception of the brioge at StiJckhill, would cost 2,5001. per mile on the entire length of the line, making altogether 500,0001. The gross value of these items would give a sum of 3,541,0001., to which 10 per cent. being added for contingencies, 354,0001., the entire estimate of the line would be 3,895,00/., which was 1,095,0001. greater than the estimate made by Sir. Brunel. Mr. TALuoT cross-examined the witness on a few points, bui nothing of a material nature was elicited. Cross.examined by Mr. GIRDEN— When he calculated 62.6 journeys bevelled on an average by seven passengers, he had sup. bored they would be both pair and four-horse carriages. He had generally allowed one or two travellers per gig as likely to come upon u rail if constructed, but had in all his calculations deducted 50 per sent. from the present amount of transit. Has thrown aside sever,' of the averages which he might legitimately have included, and has aiiopted the principle of halving the average of transit on a read for any three weeks in the year. Thus at one gate the assumed two-thirds of 2,680 passengers who posted on the read is taken in the tables at 1,560, and by gigs the same proportion is taken of the 35,566 observed travelling. Has no doubt but that the passengers through IMarlingford would avoid, rather than adopt, the line by Wyndham to Norwich. Considers the average of 2d. per traveller as a very fair rate to name. On the London and Birmingham the fare is rather more than that, and on the Coichester line 2 1 / 2 d. is the average price per mile. The CHAIRMAN decided that Mr. Dunning should proceed. Mr. AUSTIN then claimed that they should have the original plan deposited with the clerk of the peace. Mr. Oswald and Mt. M. Milnes thought that the copy before the Committee was sufficient. The Citatasiszs thought that the point was of sufficient import ance to justify Mr. Austin in calling for the original. Mr .GUNNING pleaded that the question ought to be decided just as a case at nisi pries. Mr. AUSTIN said that if this question were to be decided for the opposing party, he ought to recal the engineers, and that Mr. Gunning should proceed suo periculo. To this the Chairman assented, and Mr. Gunning was proceed ing with the examination of the witness when the Committee d. bated whether they should receive this act upon the plan which ha , been laid before them. At length Mr. Gunning proceeded, and Mr. Denton stated that in page 11, where a length of five fur. longs was stated, as horizontal there was at one end a difference of eight feet; four pages, consequently, were it regular as to the da tum line. It was stated in one page that a portion of the line was ..:15 feet, when it was really only 206 feet. The further distance might be explained because there was another datu, line of 100 feet difference, but the difference of 91 feet was not to be explained. In the next page there was a difference of 110 but he did not rely on these larger differences, because he con. ceived they were clerical errors; but the 91 feet was a decided error He would not state it more precisely, because he had allowed for shrinking , but the difference was 9 or 10 feet, and he should say that me work could not be executed on the sections as stated. The discrepancies in tour pages consecutively were such as he could not account for, and certainly they were more than clerical errors. In page 12 there was a difference of 12 feet, which he could not account for. In page 10 continued to page 11 the difference was 100 feet, but that was a clerical error. But from page 11 to page 12 there was a discrepancy for which he could not account for. Mr. LAW then proceeded to address the Committee on the evi. dense that had been adCuced. There was no doubt the existing traffic between South Wales and through Bristol would be entirely destroyed, if the proposed line were made. The best line of com munication for this traffic would be by way of the Aust Ferry, and for the traffic coming from Birmingham and the manufacturing districts of the north the most urable point of com munication would be by way of Gloucester. The consent and approval of three public bodies had been given to the scheme; but he would contend that this was not sufficient. The jurisdiction of the Committee, in dealing with the matter, was limited by an Act, the Eth Victoria, which, in cap. 20, sec. 17, provided, that whore a railway company contemplated carrying a bridge over any navigable river the consent of the Admiralty should be obtained previously to the passing of the preamble. Mr. E. Buza.sta, M.P., observed that the Act prevented the construction of the works without the consent of the Admiralty ; but there was nothing in the clause to hinder the Committee from deciding that the preamble of the Bill was proved, and, further, the consent of the Admiralty might be obtained. Mr. Law (in continuation) said that it was compulsory on the promoters of the Bill to get the consent of the Admiralty first, and as it had not been so obtained, it was evident that the part of the preamble which declared that the construction of a line from Standish, across the Severn, would be of "great public advantage by opening an additional, certain, and expeditious means of communication " between South Wales and England, could not be legally tenable. It was clear, if the opposition of the Admiralty continued against the making of the proposed bridge across the Severn, that the intentions of the railway company as regarded Standish could not be carried out, arid therefore it would necessarily fellow that the consent of the Committee could not be given in the preamble. In the opening harangue of Mr. Austin he had observed that considerable difficulty had been experienced on this subject, and even had gone so far as to say that supposing the line could not be continued to Standish, it was still desirable to have railway communication to Chepstow. The Learned Counsel then shortly adverted to the various lines which had appeared in the course of evidence as preferable to the route laid down by the South Wales Company, and also briefly commented on the inadequacy of the estimates for the construction of the proposed line. He con cluded by ca:ling on the Committee not to allow the preamble of the Bill to pass. Sir Walter Riddle withdrew the opposition on the part of Colonel Lewis to the Bill, a satisfactory arrangement having been arrived at between him and the promoters of the railway. After a few words from Mr. Dams, on behalf of Sir T. C. Bovey and the Rev. Mr. Jones, the opposition against the line having been brought to a conclusion, the room was ordered to be cleared. On our return The CIIAIII3I4N said the Committee were of opinion that it was unnecessary to trouble the Counsel for the Bill to make a reply, as they were unanimous in thinking that the preamble of the Bill had been proved. Atter some desultory conversation between the Committee and Counsel, ai to the method in which the opposed clauses should be proceeded with, the Committee adjourned till twelve to-morrow. GROUP PP. rizmoDLEsnoreouGH AND impaan RAILWAY. Re.examined by Mr. JAMES—Has tested his calculations by the precedent of other lines, and the result has proved his complete accuracy. These is no analogy between this and the Great Western, Colchester, and London and Birmingham lines, named as criterions of traffic by Mr. Girden. Mr. William Gravatt, civil eng,neer, examined by Mr. JAMES -Was engaged last year in the month of September to survey the direct line between Norwich and Derehain. Has estimated the cast of the main line at 140,9374, the New Mills branch at 10,757/., and the Fakenham branch at ::(1,1701., making a total of 177,8641. 'The distance of the main line is 15 miles 8 chains, of the New 3:ills Branch, 1 mile and 17 chains, and of the faker). ham branch 2 miles 46 chains. The land, the cuttings, earth works, embankments and bridges, are surveyed for a double line, into which the rail could be converted at any period whatever. 'Lie gradi: nts are 1 in 450 for half a mile, 1 in '257 for three miles and a furlong, 1 in 285 for one mile five furlongs, I in 360 for one mile three furlongs, 1 in 917 for six furlongs, the ruling gradient being lin 300. Proposes to have a terminus at the New Mills, in order to obtain the traffic now coining up from Yarmouth by the canal navigation. The continual stoppages on the Derchain and Wyndham line will entail a delay of five mi nutes at each station. Cross-examined by Mr. ANDREWS, Q.C.—Has been engaged in the construction of the line in the Thames Tunnel, the. Bristol and Exeter as far as Taunton, a distance of forty hv-2 miles, arid a large proportion of the Great Western. Took down some bridges on the Bristol and Exeter line, after having erected them. Thinks six at least required this alteration. The cause of the bridges being raised was the change of gauge adoptcd on the line, an order having been made by the House of Lnrgs that the gauge must be the same throughout both on the Great Western and Bristol and Exeter Railway. Has also been en aged in the Direct Northern and Churnet Valley neither of which have yet passed the standing orders. I here are sixte,n level crossings, for which 2,068/. has been esti mated, or 1301. per crossing. . . By Lord SAN DON—A gate-keeper will be placed upon every crossing, acting also as policeman on the line, at a salary of 50/. per annum ; a cottage would be required for each, requiring 2501. for con rtructian. Cross-examination continued—The number of bridges across the line will be 10, at an average cost of 5411. each. Ras estimated 1,7871. for the construction of sixteen culverts, and takes 101. p er ton for rail, and 71. for chains. The worst gradient en the m a i n li ne is I in si, five chains and a half in lengt h , but by an arrangement with the Eastern Union this objectionable inclination will be avoided. Has a plan and section also fur avoiding the crossing of the road on a level. Does not know whether St. Stephen'a.street, in Nor. wick will be considered a level. The steepest level on the New Mills branch is 1 in 48. Contemplates a traffic of corn, flour, and coals on that rail, and proposes to work that distance of a mile and eight chains by horse power. Calculates thirty.thres tons a.day will be enabled to be drawn by each horse, the expense being per ton nett, Is. 3-10ths of a penny on the whole distance. The cost for keeping the horse will be 3s. 10d. a-day, including the driver at 12s. a-week. The draught of a horse up the incline would be 4 3.10 tons gross, end eleven journeys could be thus made daily. The equivalent weight on a level would be about 21 tons gross. A slmilar incline was on the Merthyr and Cardiff line, which he had laid out, and where a great advantage as experienced by the steep descent, on which the iron could with ease be carried to the latter district. The largest cutting on the direct line would contain 230,400 cubic yards. Ite-rxamined by Mr. JauLii—No engineering incompetency was ever attributed to him for the taking clown the bridges on the Bristol and Exeter line. The level crossings do not inter. ford with any turnpike-road whatever, but merely intersect lanes and other unimportant pathways. The gradient of 1 in 48 was viz: down because it came out in subtraction, 250 being at first estimated as the ruling grr.dient ; but that can be at a future period whay rectified. By Mr. RICABDO—The putting down I in 48 as the gradient was merely an oversight in making , e the survey. By a subsequent arrangement, and altering rg a e gradients, the difficulty will be altogether obviated, and the a' eshort distance now with the steep incline become almost a perfect level. Sir. Brough examined by Mr..lttMoEfSt—he afistth,e„istisiseissstarnetspoefet3iifirg. Locke, C.E. Has heard the evidence the objectionable gradient of I in 48. tThatditfi of the l ine cultycanh to however he overcome by raising or depresssng theer i_,e level extent of a foot. Cross-examined by Mr. ANDREWS, Queen's Counsel—The eleva tion or depression of the level of the lines, when crossing the roads, couldnot be efficted without the consent of the inhabitants of Noy with, as the bridges or crossings must be altered at a cor responding ratio. The Committee then adjourned, at 4 o'clock, till 12 to-morrow. - This Committee met at half-past three o'clock, the Hon. Eliot Yorke in the chair. The preamble of the Bill being proved, the clauses of the Bill were gone through without opposition, and the Chairman was directed to report to the House that it passed with its amendments. To the inquiries of Lord CLIVE, the witness stated that he as. slimed the two ends to be correct, and then found the discrepancies. Some of thesediscrepancies might be accounted for, but the error of the five furlong; was aaogettier Lrespective of all datum. To the cross-examination of Mr. AUSTIN, Mr. Denton stated that if the plan were drawn out as it was written the difference would disappear. But there was evidently an error either in the writing or the Van, and whichever might be right there was certainly a difference which was irreconcilable with mensuration truth. To the inquiries of Mr. M. Musks, Mr. Demon stated that he did not ascribe any malus animus to the promoters of the railway, nor could he say whether this difference extended to Lord Grant. ley 's property, or was beyond it, but if this error was made within the precincts it would be decidedly injurious to the property. To Mr. AUSTIN the witness stated that he conceived that the rule was that any alteration of a gradient better than 1 in 100 was not allowable, which was more than three feet ; and as this alteration was more than five feet, it would affect the whole I.ne. The place affected was Norbrook, where the bend was taken ; and as the cuttings would be deeper, and the embankments higher, Lord Grantley's property would be affected to that particular extent. He was not, however, an engineer, and was diffident of stating positively what would prevent the injury from being obviated. By continuing, however, the inclination of 1 in 100 further, until it reached the horizontal plane, to the end of 7 furlongs, it would not exceed the prescribed limits, and he did not see that it would injure the property at that spot. But as to the precise boundaries of the property he was ignorant. To the cross-exarnination of Mr. R tiWLINSON, he stated that he had surveyed the line through eight miles and three chains on one line, and in the other one furlong less; but he could not say what width he had surveyed on either side of the line, but it was very irregular and expressed on the plan which he produced; nor could he say what was the precise value of the land. He had gone into no estimates, and, therefore, would not state the money-value either of Mr. Drummond's or Mr. Lomax's land ; but certainly it was not ornamental ground. The South-Western line would pass close by a new house now in the course of erection in the Gothic style, by Mr. Smirke, but he thought that, taking Lord Grantley's house, Mr. R. Sparkes', General Norton's, arid Mr. J. Sparke's house, and putting them Into comparison with Mr. Lomax's, Mr. Brag's, and Mr. Drummond's,the injury effected would be greater by the atmospheric line than that proposed by the South- Western Company. In passing from there to Albury, his line passed through a valley which contained a great number of residences, five or slx of which would be cut off from any corn. munication with the opposite side of the valley, and with their own property. There were six or seven public roads passed upon a level by his own plan, but he believed that they were the same roads which were passed also by the atmospheric line. One at Ash Farm ; another at Albury, though he could not say that it was the main road from Dorking to Godalming, but was the chief access to Mr. Drummond's property; the third crossing was over the same road, about I mile further on ; the next was a lane leading to the gunpowder-mill, which he pass, d about 150 yards off. He was not aware that a line was not allowed to pass within 500 or 000 yards of a gunpowder-mill, but he was aware that it was an objection, though, as this was to be an atmospheric line, he had discarded that consideration from his mind. The next crossing was over an occupation road, where a diversion was proposed to prevent crossing the road twice. The next crossing was over the roa d f rom Shalford Common to Woriersh,but the esti. mates he could not give. lie would however produce a Fairer which had been made in Mr. Locke's office. A discussion arose as to the putting in the paper, which con. tined a copy of the estimates. It was ultim a t e ly d ec id e d th a t it should be p u t i n , the paper . was in the h an d wr iti ng o f one o f Mr. Locke' s assistants, andthe:validity of its statements the witness could only assume. N me. orton, a broth er o f L ord Grantley, stated that he hadTt'ltenolwinnthe mansion at Woner h for thi r t y- fi ve years. It was the principal res id ence of his brother,s of and had b een i n the family e opiniont that wou t t p a r k o e p o t s i e , d e whole froarth,se,avyerawlocueindtugrrieeastl;y and he w as injure the property.w i h was in reality a very ti passed called, down h the whole of t the valley of wnhee trout o f s the t r e pond ain as It it then wa s Norbrook, which was very be au tif u l , going through w excellent pheasant covers. Aft er th at i t passed through l Or three the park, and if the Company acted o n their power ' of f art d of viation, it would trench on Lord Grantley's pl easure-grounds - It subsequently went close to General Norton's house, and t h enc e to the village pond at Wonersh, which was a store p on d f or fish, But that was not only a store pond for fish, but it supplied the t pleasure grounds with water, and he believed half the village, "the deviation line would also touch the rectory house, arid then on to Chinturst Hill, which was a cover for game, being topped GROUP SS. COVENTRY, REDWORTH, AND NU .N EATON EAxx.l.v AY. The Committee on this7gQ7rc-aseembled this morning at the usual hour, and proceeded with the engineering evidence in the case for the promoters of the Coventry, Bedworth, and Nuneaton Railway. Mr. MAclutsv announced that arrangements had been come to with several landholders and the London and Birmingham Corn ?any, and the opposition to the line had accordingly been withdraun. Mr. George Rennie confirm& the evidence of Mr. Addison, the engineer to the line. Ile believed the line presented no en. gitxering dill.culties worth speaking of, and was quite certain it could be made within the estimate of Mr. Addison. The witness, in his cross-examination by Mr. DANIEL, admitted that on some parts of the line minerals had been extracted from under the surface, and the consequence had been that the land had sunk, and might again sink. tie did not think this ought to act prejudicially to the railway; but, independently of that opinion, he had been informed by those who had sufficient opportunities of as certaining the fact, that the sinking had subsided. Mr. T. Gooch had also gone over the line, and fully coincided in the statements which had been made by Mr. Addison. In his opinion, Mr. Addison had fixed upon the best point for forming a junction with the London and Birmingham line. He knew well the neighbourhood of Coventry, and had no hesitation in saying a junction to the eastward of the town was superior to one on the westward. Both functions, however, were feasible ; but the advantages on the whole, he thought, preponderated in favour of the proposes junction to the eastward. On cross.examination, he said the fact of some portion of the land over which the line would pass having sunk, or was in a sink ing state, was not a sufficient obstacle to justify the removal of the line, and mentioned one or two instances where embankments on existing lines were constantly sinking. Plate layers were always stationed near to these spots, and they were never at a loss to find a remedy for the defect. Mr. Sherwood, a railroad contractor of considerable experience, who had been extensively employed on British and foreign rail ways, was willing to contract for the works on the proposed line at 57,750/. Mr. Carenah, an ironmonger and collector of poor -rates at Nuneaton, considered the proposed railway would be a great advantage to that town, if the Trent Valley were extended as far as Nuneaton. There was an ex tensive traffic in ribbons, between Nuneaton and Co_ vemry, and it was evident to him that a railway between the two places world be a great public advantage. He admitted having signed a petition against the proposed, railway, but it was under the impression that the lino would stop short of Nuneaton, at Marston. Mr. James Atnold, a ribbon weaver at Nuneaton, had also been induced to sign a petition against the proposed railway, under the impression that it would not extend beyond Marston. The Trent Valley line would immediately connect Nuneaton with Mar. ston, and, of course, this tact removed his objection to the railway. Mr. Shailor, an int keeper, at Nuneaton, signed a petition against the railway under precisely similar circumstances. Mr. Edward Phillips, a land valuer, of Whitmore Park, near Coventry, proved that the railway would require sixty acres of land, which he estimated would cost 14,0001., including the severance. This sum was for ninety years' purchase. Mr. Banbury, Secretary to the Company, proved that the num ber of shares subscribed for was 3,574, being equal to 89,3501. The amouot of deposits already paid was 4,4671. Mr. l'atmEs here intimated that he was authorised to state that the London and thrmingliana Company were prepared to take a lease in perpetuity of the line, but the terms had not Lean fixed on. Mr. DANIEL, before entering upon his opposition, wished the Committee to draw from Mr. Parkes the fact that. the London and Birmingham Company had agreed to take a lease of the proposed railway, on the condition that the promoters were prepared to aban don a portion of their line. If this were the case, the nature of hii opposition would be materially altered. The CHAIRMAN remarked that there was no witness before then, hawhodisvadnuhttuaygletso call f p i oken to the point, and of c o u r se th ere was no one to whom th ey cou l d put the question. s tel‘ar.,: \v in DftahiNietriEaec.rteplied that under these circumst a nces it wou ld b e thep Willis evidence airriodiip.oonsfeat,iCoi Coventry. ar,eiol:ww•terahyy off t othe e that is id ir struckat it would be a greater st :a p t public •between was well acquainted w ith th e mineral distri c t s o f Coventry and Nuneaton, had b over the proposed line fro m C oventry to Bulkington, which i' places THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, JUNE 17, 1845 the collieries dipped to the west, but on the east many of the collieries were already exhausted, and others were of a very inferior character. The land between Longford and Bulkington was in a sinking state, and it was highly natural that the railway should run to the west instead of to the east. There were extensive collieries working towards the west region, if he might be allowed the term, or main bed of coal, but on the east side the collieries were chiefly exhaust 'd. The proposed railway would afford an accom. modation to the collieries he had just mentioned. These were also some important lime works on the west side, but none on the east. Mr. George Starkie, ground.bailiff to Bedworth colliery, con firmed the testimony of the last witness. On cross.examination, he admitted that the bulk of the iron stone was raised on the east side of the proposed railway. Mr. John Sinclair, engineer to the Coventry Canal, said the bulk of the population on the proposed railway resided to the west of the line. A railway to the east would therefore afford very little accommodation to them. The witness also spoke to the sinking of the land between Longford and Bulkington. Within his own time it had sunk twenty-one feet, and was still sinking. At one point since November last it had sunk two feet, and that point joined the proposed line of railway. A railway takinga west wardly direction would better serve the wants of the mining in. terest, and in fact the population at large. He had prepared the plans and sections for such line for the use of the Coventry Canal Company, and these plans and sections could be easily made avail able, because they were in every way complete. On cross-examination he said he received no particular instruc tions from the Canal Company to prevent h►m from carrying the line eastward of the turnpike-road. His instructions were of a very general nature, and he was to make out wh:.t he thought would be the best line for the district. He had made thrce-tram roads, but had never made or laid out a locomotive line. The line he had marked out would cross two turnpike roads by bridge and three on the level. The canal of which he was the en gineer was of two meandering a nature to afford sufficient accons. modation to all the traffic of the district. It was evidently con structed with a view of accommodating the mineral interest. It being announced that the Speaker was at prayers, the Com mittee adjourned till to.mor row. The CHAIRMAN, after consulting with the other members of the Committee, said they saw no reason why additional witnesses should be examined, but he ( Mr. Murphy) had better keep his witnesses in town as it might be necessary to examine them with respect to the testimony of witnesses on the part of the petitioners. Mr. COCKBURN objected to this course on the part of the Com mittee, as he considered it in opposition to Parliamentary pr , ctice. The CHAIRMAN said they had heard a great deal of evidence on the same points. If the promoters' chose to cal) further evidence they were bound to hear it. They (the promoters) must use their 41wn discretion in the matter. Mr. Lee, clerk to the Company, was then called to prove the capital of the Company, which he said was 1,800,0001., that the number of mubscribers were 16,390, and that the deposits amounted to 40,9751. Much discussion was caused by Mr. COCKBURN taking an objec tion to this formal evidence of the capital of the company, and by calling on the promoters to produce the subscription deed, as he was instructed that the subscribers' names had bean fraudulently obtained. At length, the receipt of the Accountant-General of the deposits was produced, and the Le -reed Counsel consented to take the witnesses' proof of the truffle; the deed, however, was shown to him. Mr. Nuzum gave evidence respecting the assents and dissents. This clwed the case for the promoters. Mr. Rowe then applied to have Mr. Boyle, the engineer, to the Mullingar Company, who had certain sections in his possession of importance to the case of the petitioners, the Grand Canal Com pany, summoned before the Committee by a warrant of the Speaker. The Learned Counsel then called Mr. Hannington, who stated that he was the engineer to the Canal Company. That in March last, in conjunction with Mr. Boyle and Mr. Henry, he made a survey of the site of the proposed line fur the purpose of testing the accuracy of the sections. They found a great number of errors in the levels. The specifications were :given to Mr. Boyle after he (witness) had placed his initials on them, on the understanding that he would produce them when required. He had since refused to do so. Mr. TALBoT said they might have Mr. Boyle before them, but they could not compel him to produce the plans and sections in question. Similar applications were made for the attendance of Mr. NV. Z Mulvany and Mr. Lether. The Committee then adjourned. intention of the Noble Earl (the Earl of Winehilseal to bring forward the no - ice which he had on the books until the Bill had been read a third time, it beets !' in the nature of a clause to be added to the Bill. he would shortly state the grounds on which he should support the- me.isure. No doubt the Bill would be earned by at, overwhelming mej ,city ; but the results to be expected from it very much depended en the spirit in which it would be passed, and on the reasons which led the Government to wopose it. Ile was anxious to state that. he did not support the measure from any apprehension of agitation, or from any dread of a foreign war. If these were the reasons on which he and others supported it, they would have the effect of placing Mr. O'Connell on a higher pinnacle than that he had occupied since his trial. Neither did he sup port the Bill because the Government had gained a triumph over education, because the Government was now strong, and could afford to be generous, and might therefore bestow a boon which it might otherwise withhold,—but he could not help stating that their measures towards Ireland had hitherto been unfortunate. A Noble Friend (the Marquis of Clanricarde) on Friday gave a true statement of the public mind in Ireland. He (Lord Campbell) did not support the measure, merely on the ground that it was to supply a defect in former grants—lie did not proceed merely upon the dilapidated state of the build ing, or on the wretched condition of the students, for he thought it was a sufficient answer to the arguments that lad been brought forward against this measure on religious grounds, that it was only a contatuation of former grants; but if it were merely to be considered as an isolated measure and nothing more were to be done, he doubted whether evil instead of good might not be expected. He could not sup port the measure as a step to the endowment of Roman Ca tholic Churches in Ireland, out of the public revenue, while the Protestant Church of Ireland retained its present monstrous dimensions.—( Hear, hear.) He was fully convinced that they never could expect peace in that country until there was complete equality between Protestants and Roman Catholics, on civil and religious grounds. He supported the measure, because he considered it a Parlia mentary recognition that hereafter in Ireland Protestants and Roman Catholics were to be dealt with alike. He would venture with confidence to point out a plan by which Ireland could be governed, and by which Ireland might be rendered peaceful, prosperous, and contented. Let them place the Ro man Catnolics and the Protestants of Ireland on exactly the EU PE i LA L PA 'it ,l_slirt, Kt:l4T. same footing. With so much and no less would the Roman Catholics be contented. He did not complain of the exist- HOUSE OF LORDS, June 16. ence of the Episcopal Protestant Church in Ireland, because Their Lordships met at Five o'clock. he could not place any faith in the voluntary principle. It was RAILWAYS, he thought the duty of the State to provide religious Messengers from the Commons brought up a number of instruction for all cla3:es of the people ; but it was a lament railway Bills, which were severally read a first time. able fact that, hitherto, those who had been most in need of Earl FITZWILLIAM aid upon the table of the House religious instruction had been left entirely destitute of it. It the report of the Select Committee lately appointed to seemed to him, however, very important for the character of ascertain the best mode of satisfactorily adjusting disputes be- the clergy themselves, that they should not depend for aub tween landholders and railway companies relative to the pur- sistence entirely upon their flocks, but that they should be chase of landed property for the purposes of railways. rendered independent, and thus remove their apprehensions MAYNOOTH. of becoming unpopular, and prevent their resorting to un- The Bishop of London, the Bishop of Winchester, Lord worthy acts for the purpose of obtaining a decent living. These Winchilsea, and the Earl of Breadalbane, presented a large were from 7,000 to 8,000 persons in Ireland of the Episcopalian number of petitions against the third reading of the Maynooth persuasi , ai, and it was highly becoming that their religious Bill wants should be amply provided for. Far be it, therefore. from MESSAGE FROM HER MAJESTY—SIR HENRY him to sanction any measure which should have the least ten- POTTINGER. dency to take the whole of their rights and privileges from them ; The Earl of ABERDEEN moved the order of the day for but he could not forget that there were 7,000,000 of Roman taking into consideration her Majesty's message recommending Catholics in Ireland who were required to obey the law, who their Lordships to concur with her in granting a pension of were required to contribute to the public revenue, who were re -1,5001. a year to Sir Henry Pottinger, K. C.B. , for the period quired to defend the State by their personal services, and yet of his natural life. they were refused the same facilities for obtaining religious in- The Noble Lords having concurred, struction.—(Hear, hear.) While there was no prospect of The LORD CHANCELLOR read her Majesty's message. Roman Catholics being converted to the faith of the Fstab- The Earl of ABERDEEN then said, he rose to move an fished Church, their clergymen, who were to instruct them, humble address to her Majesty, in answer to the message which ought to be well educated. There were errors in the Roman she had sent to their Lordships, and in doing so, it would Catholic religion, and no one could disl.ke them more than he only be necessary to detain them for a very few did ; but the question was not whether there were errors, but minutes, for he had already had opportunities in that whether these who were attached to it should receive instruction House of bearing testimony to the great merits in the tenets they professed trom ignorant or educated men— of the distinguished person who, on the present occasion, was whether they should live entirely upon the subscriptions of the object of her Majesty's gracious consideration. He had their flocks, or be partially dependent upon the State. not been sparing in those expressions of admiration and praise And why should not the Roman Catholics and Protestants of of that conduct which was considered by her Majesty Ireland associate together harmoniously in the same way that to be so justly done. Those sentiments had they did in Scotland, Russia, or France ?He certainly would found an echo throughout the whole country. In every not support the Bill, as being the first step to the endowment part of the kingdom, whether in England, Scotland, or Ire- of the Roman Catholic Church out of the public funds, because land, Sir H Pottinger had been welcomed with enthusiasm, he thought a portion of the revenues of the Established Church and every effort had been made to do him honour. ougbt to be appropriated to that purpose. A good deal had But it was clear that the vast majority of those been said about the murder and persecution committed by the persons who had so united in expressing such opinions. Roman Catholics of Ireland, but, on the other hand, had not had very little means of duly estimating the real merits the Protestant Church, at some periods of its history, been of Sir Henry Pottinger. They looked upon the bound- equally as persecuting and just as tyrannical ?—( Hear, less field which he had opened to British enterprise, hear.) Did their Lordships forget the cruel murder of and to that inexhaustible source of commercial wealth Archbishop Sharp in Scotland, whose murderers were aft erwards and prosperity, which, by his means, had been rewarded by the Church and the State for their cruelty ? Ler rendered accessible to their fellow-countrymen. But he felt it them hear, then, no more about the domineering and perse his duty to say that the real merits of 'sir H. Pottinger would outing spirit of the Roman Catholics of Ireland. hut he was have deserved their Lord s hip s ' approb a tion and the ap- inclined to think it was the wish and the intention of her Ma probation of the Sovereign equally as much if his jesty's Government to deal with Ireland in a more liberal exertions in China had not been attended by such spirit, and passing from the religious to the political question magnificent results—for through his whole conduct in China it of justice to Ireland, he trusted, ere long, they would see an was his (the Earl of Aberdeen's) good fortune in the relation extended system of registration introduced into Ireland, which which he stood towards him to bear testimony to the conduct should place its constituencies on the same footing as those of which be pursued. Sir Henry Pottinger in being called England. It had been said, however, that there was no use to service in China was removed from a service and from a in making concessions to Ireland, because, the more they con school to which he ( the Earl of Aberdeen) might be permitted ceded, the more the people demanded, and even when they to say the State had been greatly indebted. He knew not how got what they asked for, they were not contented. They had it was, but whether from long habits of self reliance or heard a vast deal, too, of the ingratitude of the Irish people; from taking part in great affairs, the fact was but let him tell the House, that if they conceded to that the service of the East India Company had produced men Ireland all that she was entitled to demand, and her people who, by the energy of their characters and the statesmanlike were still dissatisfied, then would be the time for them to com views which they entertained, were peculiarly qualified to con- plain. When the Irish people had been treated on an equality tend successfully with the greatest difficulties, and to confer with the English—could any Noble Lord point nut to him a most signal advantages on their country. When Sir H. Pot- period in the history of the two countries, anything which tinger went to China, he found the negotiation in a state of could at all show that Ireland had been treated as fairly and complete confusion, and the utmost difficulty was placed in his as lib era ll y as E ng l and ? No; it was quite out of the power way to bring the matter to a right adjustment. He had been o f N o b le L or d s to do any such thing, and until her Majesty's engaged in the direction of both the naval and military forces Roman Catholic subjects were placed on an equality with Pro -.hemight say, of the largest force that had ever left this testants, Ireland would still have a rigid to demand further country—and had, under a variety of circumstances, sues concessions. That letter demonstrates that the opinions which seeded in giving peace to the empire. He had united, in the he had entertained could not be carried out. He went out of most wonderful manner, those qualities which had enabled him office we hout the opportunity of completing his intentions. to consolidate the efforts of both the services, and had so sue- Sir R. Peel's Government was formed at the end of 1834, and ceedea in executing the duties of his office, as to convert hatred was so speedily dis-olved, that there was no time for him or his and suspicion into confidence and friendship. It was the exer- Lord Lieutenant to carry out their kindly-disposed measures for vise of those strong faculties with which he was so extraordi- the benefit of the people. Then came the Government of narily gifted, and it was under the most difficult circumstances, Lord Melbourne, under which those measures of conciliation that he had, after having exhibited his high qualities in the were taken which made Mr. ,heil a Privy Councillor, and gave sphere of India, followed it up in China with the same energy Mr. M oore O'Ferrall a place at the Admiralty. During the and succes.. During the whole of the time in which he had whole of the five years which followed, the cry of repeal died been employed in China. though it had been a great effort with away. In 1841 a contested election took place for the city of the Government to furnish him with as precise instruc- Dublin. There were two candidates on what was called the tions as they could possibly give, yet much had, liberal side, and two on the other. fen the one side there was of necessity, been left to his own discretion ; and Mr. O'Connell, and on the other Mr. Hutton, the declared there was not, throughout the whole of his pro- enemy of repeal ; and yet at the close of the poll Alr. Hutton ceedings, a single act a hich' had not met with the approba- was within ten votes of Mr. O'Connell, who was the very head tion of her Majesty's Government. He would not enter into of the repeal movement. What would be the case now if a details, but he would give the results of the negotiations in candidate were to start for that city? Would it be believed which Sir H. Pottinger had been engaged, and which were that he would gain twenty votes. If the Government had highly satisfactory to the country. By the returns which had adopted five years ago the same conciliatory tone which they been given of the British imports into Canton in 1844, there had afterwards taken up, they would have had an easy task; had been 3,451,0001., and 3,383400/. of exports. Such was but it was declared that concession had reached its utmost the result in one of the ports of China, and their Lordships limit, aid what the result had been their Lordships had seen. would be able to judge of the effect which would be wrought on These men had been placed in office. They were men of British commerce with the whole of China. The northern unblemished character, men of the highest honour, but they ports showed equal returns, and with Shanghai and Amoy had been disregarded. But he would only say that it was to especially the commerce was largely increasing. By the re- him no wonder that the cry of repeal had been raised. port of the intelligent gentleman who acted as Consul at Can- The Irish people had learned that they were to get nothing by ton the whole of the trade with China was conducted in the voluntary concession, and they thought that their only appeal most orderly and satisfactory manner, and ever since the en- was to force. He did not wish to touch on any irritating topic gagements had been formed the treaty had been fulfilled in —(" Hear. hear." from the Ministerial benches)—he might every respect by the Chinese Government to the letter. But say something of the monster meetings, he might say some however great this success, and however great the trade which thing of the Irish prosecutions, and of the way in which they had been opened by it, it was necessary to preserve it with both . were conducted. He might say something also of the way in moderation and justice towards those with whom we had to which they were concluded.—( Hear, hear.) But he was glad deal. Without more words he would read the message of her to see that for the future the Irish people were not to be Majesty, and move a resolution, that their Lordships would treated as aliens in politics and religion. He was glad to see cheerfully concur in giving effect to her Majesty's gracious that the Noble Lord opposite was likely to have a long tenure consideration of the services of Sir H. Pottinger." of office.—( Hear, hear, arid a laugh.) The Government last The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that the Noble Earl year had carried the Dissenters Chapel Bill. They had this had truly stated that other opportunities had arisen for noticing year carried the Maynooth Bill by large majorities, and they the celebrated individual who had now been brought under had it now in their power,with the support of his own side of the their consideration by her Majesty's message. It was a singu- House, to carry other measures equaily useful, and he trusted lar fact, that while Sir Henry Pottinger had received instruc- that that would ultimately be effected fo: which he had always tions from one Government, and had other instrucitons trom contended—the endowment of the Roman Catholic priest another, he had succeeded in enjoying the confidence of both hood. Yet though it might induce a large exclusion from Governments. lie was glad to learn that a reward was pro- office of himself and his friends, he should still rejoice at the posed for services which had conferred sueh a high benefit on advancement of a generous and friendly policy towards the country. If her Majesty's Government had gone further, Ireland. and conferred the highest reward which had been given for The Bishop of LLANDAFF said that the old principles of diplomatic services, he believed that their Lordships would supporting the royal family on the throne had been so brought have been quite ready to justify it; but he knew how much the iu question, that the term of concession had reached its limits Government were bound by precedents, and therefore he was a correct phrase. There were one or two points which thought that on this account they were not to be blamed. had been very erroneously stated, but so long as tee principle The Earl of ELLENBOROUG H said that upon the subject of was upheld the connexion of the monarchy with the Protestant the merits of Sir Henry Pottinger he would say nothing, con- religion must be maintained. These two points had been his curring as he did in the meed of praise now awarded to him, torically misstated. There was but one church, one faith, but in common justice to Sir Hugh Gough, Sir W. Parker, and one creed in the world; and though they might differ as to the other officers who had served with so much zeal, energy, which was the purest church, yet there was 100 question as to tied ability under them, and who had carried into effect the the exis ence of the church. When, by what he must take the instructions of Sir Henry Pottinger, he could not allow that liberty of calling—and what was in reality a depensat ion of Provi vote to pass without recording his Appreciation of those great d ense—t hi s country was f ree d f rom the tyranny of a man who services. It was well known that the Chinese were not saw himself thwarted in some of his favourite views, the Church reasoned into a a peace but were beaten in!o it by arms, and reformed itself, and was not affected by any outward power. In there appeared to be a strange misconception entertained with the early part of the time of Elizabeth the Church had be en respect to the naval and military operations that were then established in all its purity, and every member of the faith carried on. These were not under the directions of Sir Hen:7 communicated with it. The church of Rome had thrown the Pottinger, nay more, they were against his directions. He cLsrch of England off. She had repudiated arid exe,mmuni had every wish to give his tribute of praise to Sir Henry Pot- sated a :; wh partook of her rites. But the Chu rc h s t i ll went tinger's civil services, but he thought that the army „ n, was nit disturbed in any of her positions, so that it and and navy were not to be overlooked on such an was only simple error to say that the revenues of the Church occasion. The House of Commons had expressed had been transferred to the other. When he called the Este their approbation of those services, and Sir Hugh blished Church of this country a continuatior. of the ancient Gough had obtained a reward of the greatest emolument in church, he thought their earliest recollections would come in consideration of them, but where, he would ask, was the re- to a i d the pos i t i on w hi c h h e h a d put b e f ore t h em. Thi s was d one, ward of Sir Wm. Parker. If he had only defeated a few ves- not by direct effect of authority, but by the vitality always ex. sels in a single engagement, he might have expected at least a isting in a Christian community they had continued the usages little notice, but hia services were carried over a period of seve- of the Church after its polity was changed. It was an error then ral months, in shallow water of difficult navigation, and over to say that the revenues had been taken from one church and no less than seventy vessels, with the most consummate sue- transferred to the other, for it was all the same Church only cm. He thought, in conclusion, that he was bound, from a altered in features. There was one argument brought forward sense of public duty, as well as in justice to the individuals con- in favour of the Bill which he could not give his sanction to, cerned, and with whom he had co-operated in carrying out these namely that it was not the doctrines on which the grant was splendid results, to record his appreciation of their deserts on conferred but the number of people who professed those doe the present occasion. trines. He thought that such an argument was one of the The Earl of HADDINGTON said that if his Noble Friend most pernicious tendency. He would not however detain had been aware of the discussions which had taken place in their Lcrdships any longer, but believing as he did that the that and the other House of Parliament, he would have known grant was inconsistent with the principles of the refermation, that the thanks of Parliament were conveyed to both those inconsistent with the civil and religious liberties of this country, Gallant Officers for their exertions on the occasions referred to. and subersive of those noble institutions which were established He was certain that no one who was present could forget the previous to the accession of the illustrious family who at pre. language which the Noble Duke on his right hand had used on sent occupied the throne, he could not give his sanction to it, that occasion. He did not, however, confine his remarks to and would therefore move that the Bill be read a third time Sir H. Gough. The order of the Grand Cross of the Bath that day six months. had been conferred on the Illustrious Admiral, Sir William Lord CAMPBELL said that he was far from being an Parker, and shortly after his return home a baronetcy had been ene my to the Protestant Church, and he did not consider that conferred on him. Since that the most important command at any appropriation of its funds, such as he had suggested, would the disposal of her Majesty's Government had been given to in the least degree impair its usefulness. him. He had been appointed to the command of the Medi• The Earl of EL LENBOROUG H did not concur with the Noble terranean fleet. He would not enter into a comparison of the and Learned Lord. He thought that the Church of England naval and military operations that were then carried on, be- and Ireland was one Church, and it would be as unju , t that lieving as he did that the successful results which Sir H. Pot- the superfluities of York should go to supply the wants of tinger had achieved were partly attributable to both ; and Cornwall or Kent, as that the funds of the Established Church Parliament was desirous to record their appreciation of those in Ireland should be taken to supply the Catholic religion services. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH was well aware of the a there. He thought that such a proposition was sanjust; and he P - intreated the Noble Lord, and all who concurred with him, to pointment which had been conferred on Sir W. Parker, but his pause before they entertained such a suggestion. If once they Noble Friend had not touched upon the point of honour. Another countenanced so monstrous a proceeding it was impossible to officer, perhaps, could not be got so well qualified to take the say what would be the end of such an unprecedented intorfe command in the Mediterranean. rence with the just rights of the Established Church in Ire• The Earl of HA DDINGTON said that there were officers land. —( Hear, hear.) equally well qualified to take that command. The Earl of SHREWSBURY said that religious controversy The Earl of ELLEN BOROUGH said that, with the excep- ought to be eschewed in that House; but he could not , as a tion of Sir G eorge C oc kb urn , t h ere was not an o ffi cer i n the Catholic, allow the denunciations which had been frequently service so well qualified. poured oust in the course of the present debate against the The Marquis of LANSDOWNE hoped that nothing which p Catholic religion, to pass without recording his decided protest fell from him could be construed into any disparagement of the against them. This religion , he it remembered, numbered services of Sir W m . P ar k er . S o f ar f rom say i ng anyt hi ng to among its followers, both in times past and at present, the his disparagement, he would be sorry to omit anything he knew most illustrious men the world ever saw, and he would ven that would tend to the praise of that great admiral—for he ture to say that it would continue to do so for all time to would call him a'gre at a d m i ra l — b ut h e t h oug h t t h at after the ! come. If Noble Lords who had alluded, with so much greatest command in the habitable globe bad been conferred I eloquent vituperation, to the doctrines taught at Maynooth, upon him, any eul og i um f rom hi m as to his merits was per- . had moved that a copy of the " Catechism of the Council fectly unnecessary. . of Trent, which had been published in 1829, by a professor After a few words in explanation from the Earl of GLEN - of that College, should be placed on the table, or in the hands GAL, the address was agreed to. of every Member of their Lordships' House, an opportunity 111 A YNOOT H. would be given to sift those charges which had been Lord RODEN presented a number of petitions from various , made. It was really monstrous, however, to state, as parts of Ireland against the grant to Maynooth. many of their Lordships had dime, without the I TRAVELLING ON RAILWAYS ON SUNDAYS. least proof of such an assertion, that all who were A Right Rev. PRELATE p resente d a pet i t i on f rom S ussex pro f essor s of that religi on were sunk i n superst i t i on an d idol_ against any unnecessary traffic on railways on Sundays. atry. He was a Catholic not only in obedience to the church MAYNOOTH. who inculcated that faith, but from a serious investigation, On the order of the day for the third reading of the College and a strong conviction of the truth of the Catholic religion ; of Maynooth Bill being read, and he defied those Lords who had indulged in these calu m- Lord CAMPBELL. said. as be presumed it was not the I nious misrepresentations, to substantiate a single one of them. GROUP KK LivEn,p OL AND RTJILY AND LIVERPOOL AND MANCHESTER EXTENSION, WITH THEM RESPECTIVE BRA;, CE ES. The Committee met at one o'clock, Sir C. Lemon in the chair, but business was not commenced for nearly an hour after, in con sequence of the absence of Mr. Talbot. SOUTHPOFLT AND ORMS/EMN. BRANCH, IMt'4;RTANT D-ECISION. Mr. TALBOT said he appeared on behalf of the Liverpool, Preston, and Ormskirk Railway. He, in accordance with the re. commendation of the Board of Trade, wished to suggest the post. ponement of any railway at present to Southport. The project which his clients had ::nought forward, had been shipwrecked in the Standing Orders Committee, but would be brought forward next session. There could be no doubt but an improved communica tion between Liverpool and Preston was required, and that improve. mi.nt he proposed. The present distance between Liverpool and Preston, by Parkside, was thirty.eight miles and a half, and the transit occupied two hours and a half. The present mode of traffic between Liverpool and Preston was most inconvenient, and was so spoken of in the report of the Board of Trade. The insufficiency of the transit was demonstrated by the fact that, instead of the number of passengers having been increased sixfold since the opening of the railway between Liverpool and Preston, as was usually the case between such important towns, there had been an increase upon the old coach conveyance of only five per cent. He thought this state of things should not be permitted to continue, but that they should cut off the angle which Parkside made with Liverpool and Preston, and supply the hypothenuse which he would propose in the Liverpool and Ormskirk line. By the new line, a saving of twelve miles would be effected, and there would be also a considerable saving in the communication in the route from Pres ton to Wigan, and thence to Liverpool by the Liverpool and Bury Railway, which the Committee had sanctioned. Preston contained a population of 50,000, and the trade between it and Liverpool, which was carried on by the river Ribble was, notwithstanding the exceedingly tedious and expensive communication was very consi derable. In fact, 16,000 tons of small craft were at present engaged between these towns. The project which he advocated had re. ceived the support of the great spinners at Preston—men whose capital was more than 2,000,0004 and who last year obtained from Liverpool more than 20,000 tons of cotton. Not far from Preston was a most important town, Blackburn, which was the centre of a district, a radius of five miles, containing a population of 120,000 souls. The project he advocated would greatly abridge the distanc. between Liverpool and Blackburn, a tra,st desirable step, as almost all the provisions and raw materials for manufactures used in Black. burn were obtained from Liverpool. The course between those places was, at present, a most circuitous one, a distance of 64 miles, whilst by the railway his clients would propose it should be only 34. This would be six miles shorter than any other which had been submitted to the notice of Parliament. The Blackburn and Preston Rai.way was now in course of construction, so that the communication between all these important towns would be then complete. By this means the whole of the northern part of Lan. cashire would be brought into direct communication with Liver. pool, and a population of 545,000 would be accommodated by the line which touched upon the immediate vicinity of their dwellings. The main line was in length 26i miles; the branch to Southport, 7i ; the branch to Blackburn, 2 miles ; anti the Skelmersdale and Ormskirk branch, 3 miles. The estimated amount of construction was 730,0001. The Learned Counsel went on to argue that his line would, in fact, 'confer greater advantages upon Southport itself than the other, for it would place it in direct communication with the important towns he had mentioned. Until the peovle of Southport heard that the line his clients projected had been thrown out by the Standing Orders Committee, they were most anxious for it ; and in fact, the only petition which had emanated from that town up to a very recent period, was in favour of their pro ject. The Learned Counsel concluded by requesting the Com. mince to accede to the recommendation of the Board of Trade, and postpone the Southport and Euxton project to next year. After some deliberation the room was cleared of strangers. Upon our return to the room, The CHAIRMAN 'aid we are perfectly ready to hear all the wit nessess on the other side, but I think it right to tell you what the opinion of the Committee is. The Committee is of opinion that the case for the promoters of the Bill is of such a natnre as to dispose them to agree in the recommendation of the Board of Trade. They are, therefore, willing that the project should be postponed to next year, but we are unwilling the expenses which have been incurred should be wasted, and we will therefore postpone the further con sideration of the matter to a late day in July. Such is the unani mous wish of the Corrunittee at the present moment. The Corn. mittee are of opinion that there should be a line of railway corn. munication with Southport; but the Act which will be passed this year will enable the Committee to resume their proceedings where they left them off, so that if any better project be not offered, the Southport and Euxton one will certainly pass. Mr. Sergeant KINGSLAKE-Will the Committee declare the preamble of the Bill proved ? The CHAIRMAN—Yes, under the condition that I have men. tioned, that no better line be proposed in the interim, we will re port in favour of the Bill, so as not to shut out any rival project. The case for the supporters of the present project does not appear to have been well sustained. The following note was then, with the consent of the leading Counsel pro. and con., adopted : " That the passing of the preamble of this Bill does not give any advantage over any competing Bill which may be brought forward in the ensuing session." The CHAIRMAN added, that a communication between South. port and Euxton was most desirable, but that, as a better project than that which had been proposed might be proposed, they post poned the further consideration of the preamble to the ensuing The Committee then adjourned to the Bth of July. Sergeant KINGLAKE said he was afraid such an expression of opinion would prejudice his case. The CHAIRMAN said his case was so bad that it could hardly be prejudiced. They would not proceed with the clauses of the Bill this session. The preamble of this Bill was not therefore passed. GROUP X. CAMBEIDGE AND LINCOLN MINE. The Committece sat to• day shortly after 12 o'clock, and re- fumed the TRAFFIC EVIDENCE. Mr. VALENTINE LEE handed in certain tables of traffic, and called Mr. D. Jones, and examined him as to their contents. Witnesses were examined as to their contents on Saturday on some items, but the counsel against the project having said that these tables were so complicated that they could not understand them, the cross. examination as to the amount of exports of provisions from the district of Ramsey that they alleged took place annually, was reserved for this day. The witness deposed that the quantity of potatoes, oats, and other agricultural produce exported from the district east of Ramsey, as compared with that of the west, was immense, owing to the superior facilities for transit which that district now possessed, and the natural superiority of the soil over that of the west. Mr. William Parsons, estate valuator and architectural surveyor, deposed that he had estimated the value of the lands, houses, build ings, ix., along the whole line from Cambridge to Lincoln, pro posed to be taken in by that line, and had set it down at 34,0751. Mr. stiller deposed that he received about 500 tons of groceries per annum from London to Peterborough, by Wisbeaeh, by water; the carriage cost him 206. per ton; by railway it would cost about 7s. 4d. The same observation applied to iron, timber, &c ,in the freight of which the saving would be proportionably great. The Committee hero retired, for what purpose they did not stag; but on their return they made no announcement whatever, and the examination was proceeded with. Mr. Buckle, spirit dealer at Peterborough, deposed that he got his wines, spirits, and all the other articles he dealt in from London, and had not the least doubt but that the Farringdon-street station would have the preference to either that of King's.cross or Bow creek, for the conveyance of all sorts of goods to Peterborough. Mr. W. I'. Stanley, ironmonger, o; Peterborough, corroborated the evidence of the dealers in the same article who had preceded him, as to the saving of time and money to be effected in the transit of the article, if the proposed line of railway should be made. At the conclusion of the cross-examination of this witness, during which no material evidence was elicited, The Committee adjourned. GROUP Z. DIJELIN AT:D GALWAY RAILWAY. The Committee assembled at twelve o'clock in Room No. 17, the Hon. R. Clive, chairman. Mr. Brown was examined at considerable length by Mr. Rows, on behalf of the Royal Canal Company, with respect to the estimated traffic on the roads on the site of the proposed line. He stated that he had estimated all the traffic on the roads, and that his esti mate was rather under than above the actual traffic. Mr. Wimberly said the traffic was taken under his superinten. Bence in December ►ast—perhaps the most unfavourable period of the year; that men were employed by him at certain parts of the road for a fortnight, and that he handed the results to Mr. Brown. Both these witnesses were cross.examined. Mr. Rows held that by a document issued by the projectors in February last the dividend was estimated at eleven per cent., whereas the projectors had stated before the Committee that it would not be more than 61, and that they had estimated their traffic at 55,393, whereas it appeared, from the traffic on the roads, that there could not be more than 30,660. Mr. Brown stated that this difference arose from there being a great number of private conveyances which they could not distinguish from public carriages, and which had been included in the estimate of public conveyances. He said that there was no discrepancy, and that this estimate was a fair one, when this circumstance was taken into account. _ Captain Moersom said he was the engineer to the line. Its entire length would be 115 miles. The country is very favoura ble for its construction, and there were no peculiar engineering difficulties. There would be no tunnelling. The gradients and curves were of a favourable character. The severest gradient would be 1 in 150 for a little more than a mile. The smallest radius of a curve, and which the engines w0...1d run at the top of their speed, would be half a mile in length. There would be two smaller radii at the stations of about one quarter of a mile each. Fifty-three roads would be crossed on a level. The cost of construction would be 180,0001. Cress.examined by Mr. COCKBURN—IDS surveys commenced in October, about two months before the plans and sections were de livered to the Board of Trad e . The breadth of the gauge would be 5 ft. 3 in ; the iron 10/, per ton ; the chairs arid sleepers 72 . 1 0s per ton. The lines would r es t on longitudinal bearers. There would be twenty five stations, a nd three drawbridges. The witness was then examined on minute details in connexion with the line. The cost of constructing this line would be nearly 10,0001. a mile. Mr. MURPHY said he had a great number of witnesses, but as it was his desire to save as much of the tine of the Committee as he could, he would not call them unless they thought that he should de so; He could net help a l so contrasting let , cont,net of the Ca tholic eh-entries of that House. when speakieg of the Prole -taut re ligion, who. alihoug'i twelve in number. never, es ter as he knew, allowed a single wore! to escal e them disparaelog the doctrines of that religion. lie should not have dwelt upon b tho h this part of the subject at all, but from th e pertinacity we which those charges had been reiterated , a nd which, ug refuted a thousand times over arid over again, were still br. uelit fore and with all the freshness of novelty. He would just briefly allude to one or two of the mis-statements which had been made in reference to the doctrines taught at Mar nooth.—The Noble Lord_then read a document purporting to come from a body calling themselves the Censors of the Anti-Maynooth Committee, which states, that there are eleven works containing doctrines of a persecuting tendency re ad se class-books in Mavnooth, and it turned out that only three of the books which they enumerated were read there, and only 0 books of reference, and the doctrines which were contained in them were precisely opposite to those whic h were taught in the regular class-books of Araynooth. The Noble Lord then re ferred to a passage in " Menochius," one of those books of re ference, where an inference is drawn that Christ sanctioned the doctrine of putting heretics to death. So far (continued t i e Noble Lord) from concurring in such a n opinion, or in _at in, passages of a similar tendency, they were not only obj ected i . but strongly di precated by the autkoritiee end professore of ne, College, and are never referred to unless for t h e purpose 01 refutation. He might as well say, that because enate!: burnt the Socinians, the present humane a nd virtuous Cr e Prima , : was anxious to try his hand up on the same t 0 , periment. And he might go on suggesting cases . this nature ; but he would only content hi h mself Y remarking that there would be always these notions in dispete between the two Churches. AU he asked the H ouse, the re . fore, was to give the same right of thinking and exercelnA their opinion s upon these matters to the Roman Cathell,n 7 were they gave to the Protestants. The Catholic clergy un exampled in the discharge of their religious duties, e surpassed, if not unequalled, in their loyalty, but still,NbefieL:ncds.. had been unmeasured in their abuse of them and the Je s u its of France. If the people of Ireland wanted any strongarbren for repeal, it was to be found in the language which ' h But he indulged in by some Noble Lords on this que• teen. ors wished to depart from these attacks to say a fe w " it on the principle of this measure.—( Hear, w ere en would be remembered that the tenets which ribed obnoxious to some Noble Lords, were some time ago prose. ad by the laws of this country, anti what was it that bad pi! in them in their present position ? It was not any alteratmen. it their Lordships' opinion that had produced the change,nhetn'ti. was because in Ireland the influence of the Catholic n' t e O f the nity had gradually increased, until the Gevernme,tleit first country were unable to refuse them their right!. 1 in right-.an d the pr.- • grant to Maynooth was based upon that principle, an- not ion popular bear.) ciple had ever since been gradually advancing. The e l t i on of before them was not one o polemics. It was a qt old rights. Were it a question of polenaiee, ~, m oved have precisely the same right as the Noble Lord, nu Eccles an amendment on a former occasion, every tin" , pl at th e siastical Bill came before th e m, to demand woe. doctrines of the Establishment be inquired into and e l !P, t a nd But it was not a question of polemics, but one of e t o " n t he j a u n s d tie u e n ; wi a s n e d s i: st t e h m eir o Lordships refused even to ' an ., elibers l measure, it would he tantamount to returning to t a be t t .olio. It therefore °illy remained for him to thank v en treat having brought the measure forward, and to urg ent to earl them now in its last stage ant to relax in their efforts it out. The Duke of MANCHESTER spoke a few w ords in ex• The Duke of NEWCASTLE wished to planation. whe ther the Government hail authorized the Governor of i I tt v ii : lta to eon , sent to the establishment of a Jesuit college theee n , ~,a b e en Lord STANLEY replied that a representatio tuel'i been made to Government from Malta, of t he af which bad ciency of establishment, for education in that isliainii;en, children, rendered it necessary for the inhabitants to sen cirentusf le c l a e t m ho b l e ic r o c f hi t l h d e re o n t . her T H ha o t us g e ue sh st o io u n ld wa b s e to be educated in Italy and Sicily. Under thes e r o f an •-•"; a question had been raised whether the brothe._ otablisb e ait)tioutlnGd or.C,vertonuflrnitenoist for s.n his own expense a school in Malta for the edte_e_attie"rnthe eon,s;'; deration of Government. I\ o school could und er e g a a b t it9llh e eeurire' The Duke of NEWCASTLE asked het the Malta without the licence of the Governor, an had hitherto never been refused. e j the alluded to was a member of the Jesuit S . J . be believ Lord STANLEY was understo od- to s e Y' ale met° gentleman belonged to a Jesuit colleg e. , tiler a n ! c pope The Duke of NEWCASTLE asked whe 13iii w i t h the cation had been held on the subject f thi3 0 • ation e" t of Rome. oo nonle- . but Lord STANLEY replied that no direct C Pope a 110 , In e e r ; the took place between this country and the, ilar na'''' ied on the present occasion, ason °there 01 a siin ettain i- carr agent of the Briti-h embas.. at Florence had ourt. j pr e, en an indirect communicati ' e y with the Peel flat it wa s The Duke of NEWCASTLE n which was both superstitious and g idolatrous, if red i n relig i° "' con- c a tho I , „ r oe minal in the State to encoera e the Rem" those " i° r e li t) That e ee trie b, gentleman fessed it set up images which they w orehieP e „ d o p e ion. f ie° j b e i c i s t h e was founded in error, and was contrary to a" r I t - this countrio :I li t , o th t a h t e gitrawnatsble,rionjgeepteadidaosuatnof the °f c o t s was esti; and understood that when the College 0 . - a e, and not tot ex perioteT endowe d by th e institution to be permanently supporter! ant' with the 'Oast ... E St m at a e n . cip T at h io e n pe w o a p s le gr w a e n ni te ld d ntootthbeein satisfied il since Cathet for they had evinced the greatest diseatisfactioe lee, n e e urd_w_ suppo e that this measure would concsiliattheattheirot w , t. s in e ii iiin r ;o d el them quiescent. The Noble Duke (the Dl;ke " n . es "../ said, in introducing the Bill, "that no one in his se ' 0 he The Duke of WELLINGTON —No. no. , stn °° m an , The Duke of NEWCASTLE —I say, yes. ' a 0 Man I put down by " No." The Noble Duke said " th at .e s - l'arli a.. sernes would now think, the Government a nd ee t e nr e che oce mintofca,eb;iineggtahgeaieinpstoit.htem(r,eptheVhey couid ever b beate ' eobe"' as they" werron aF'lti'; so thoroughly unable to raise the stanard e r ebelli o n .rec oil t that it was desirable to he exceedingly liberal and to e L u e " i d,hs as much as possible." He (the Duke of Newcastl )f es ey le the peace and prosperity of this country would be Ir_ eki i c h the theyQ u e Que e n werew a was requiringp laced, w h i o t with t r o e s jured if they assed the measure. The siturion in "hei. or for oath ha e et r hosmewnehtniict sentiments ns h htes os s e lov e foornetd this :s et hche(ermdnett country y e w ea e t r e e d e , ag_ oa s i n m :t t b l e.t t hA : a uo " i r.t .. e t: : a : : t h n s e : ri p e " : h t a o t cee tra. ci t id ho ld the Established Church inviolate . co r onati o n— tha tE co nc eiv e"' also, ‘u r ‘ this measure , e‘aysoure, by inf o , He thought that there ought to be no barracks wi th 0 , op , of the Church of England attached to them. A ll thi s ot oth er lawful, especially by the Emancipation Act. There el; Act which made it unlawful to establish a sfeen it's din th ee where, arid he believed that teose who were engagf _ , reln a : t tablishment of these colleges subjected themselves to a colter d nire. He did thick that any attempt to establish_ f e lt b a de all was contrary to the Constitution, and though ,n. u ch be 4 to apologize for the very imperfect manner in win d he e bou stated his views, he }et felt bound to state thens, an , t obi vote for the motion of the most Rev. Prelate. resie of The Duke of WELLINGTON felt bound to eist; that nt he had said in a former debate, and it wast e D ower the felt assured that it was utterly out of t 0 'f o rce ion. any man, by tumult, intimidation, or violenee,_nt agita_ t d et question of repeal. He had not said a word anu ever 0 0 1 7 0 He had not said a word about tumult. And h e n he fum e d ee, that any Act could be forced throough the Heusi it e oul l i e violence ; and if the Noble Duke was of opinion tnf eii ,iten li to he was the only man of sense that was of that 1 0 e il et Ji would beg to remind their Lordships that this was V o bie amend an Act of Parliament, and he had never heard e'. w es was unlawful to amend an Act of Parliament. ,mtfing,e, Duke had stated a variety of circumstances to s hoee ni l en ecrei L l ' i ' fr , unlawful, but he must say that was not the op t , alt e. P ell Noble Lords. They must either repeal the Il e n e " ) , et i bis which he did not think was at all likely, or f t : r oe 0 0 . it as they had done heretofore by large 011.1,,e00,einee, were necessary whets the population was only 3,n7 d. ebn e ri g oo still more so when the population had iner el a iieg e a eIA When he had spoken in a former debate of tn,_ r e W e ' iti for the decencies of life in a college in which ther e two to s students, he meant that they should not be two e f he Of f t ee bed—(A laugh, and cheers) —or that there shonele'oeretheot room. If they meant to give education to al r oler oin ee college, it should be such an education as won l je t o oh t el, eseral to their several duties. They had not 055'00 thole co° influential power with their flocks, but also a , that th_ g eoe n the comm •nity, and it should be recollects ",!enhe n.ehoes - . - . . - which 91 .'n w ith i r t h to not be obtained - Without an education way place them on an equality with the p ar a t s i g e :cis ." l: e l' ibe n i they had to associate. Their business was t° ol P a wes in n ig s h u e e r h c a la l s , s o e s s i t , io a n nd a s i t to was re tnhdeerobtjheecmt offitthitso te h l e ire ai ll;00 ,1; 0 11 , gentlemen of properly and position. Thi s ma king t, e , 0 10' what the Noble Lord behind him meant by_ecjecene! o f tl2 tlemen, and what he meant by giving t h e m t hat port_ ot od pot This was the opinion entertained ick, ea country, and was vain he thought to hated..° Af t out • t t big n' e 0° go back to such a state of things as eXi,"- carry 01 0 ,l is t , i All he asked of them was that they should e nd l io wive ° sure in a way worthy of this great eou°3;,,piri,, ecem n " should establish this institution according t° _ o ld v°, _ ea pro' oe VY ffule h cci a t t ee it hart first been founded. They certain!lbi'eh Pa . D c r il re iatea daw t s h inf e ffe e en n et e tew o d w a: m i e n n tif t ae . cwt plish this on cheaper terms than those w e stio° whi rega rd t° posed. There was another part of the !ion with dosciv ent endowment? Was this the first Act bY W was f ? ali t t n h le e n re t fo w r h e ic se h t h a a t d r c e o st. nfer l r t et m l the 8,0001•, a ir t v ' t:et her it wa s of 13 ; contend t b a e y s n dtt the t e e h v a q t u e relytgl;at that t a b Act c u t: o t b a ili i ; the n aJ theo , he sum or a large sum, for between them ' n 15ut ' t le t u t ciple there was no difference whatever; argu me t ° o oli o his Noble Friend had stated, there Waal a ti p, but 0 004 0 tact that this vote had been an anima' 0 1 ... - 9 5 the g te d lit'f contend that the very first year, when in o c ' i it n otte eas htf been made, the endowment was effected, - ;, 1 t he l a 7 t y olt ier whether the grant was for 9,0001. or 15, 0 '!" 0 1 0 1 j ot* ' 4 the grant was the same. In the one case lo b . a Mil l i s a goo r. ration had been adopted it had been mad . Y oe w _ wo o Y , whom he entertained the highest respee,t__e w bos r ‘ h, f i ec l Minister, a highly respectable Afinister, ant!,°"„.erit ' .v ear 1 ought to he held in great veneration. lif : o pol. a _J, s tr rival. That Minister had made an increase toynumbs . ll o nt . t.• f the I 0 consquence of the increase 0 . t art L I dents. That was the rule of equ' Y' 00 94 1 51 . O: tered not whether the rule were t det iraf e - gr eti n the House or not, but it was m ns d t hat t'_'...,d,„ 1 these discussions should be avoided, av other grou:. D eco' should be a permanent one, but also on , .... oe rsok'' w hose should be recollected that the education of 01T,.1 t bOi r ao ur , dutypied a it p w er a i s od to of in y st e r a u r c s t , ance that their salaries should not be stoolTee•too ec ho 01 0 raanedt erposition , should were of the highest importance. They er andthese i t studentswa ne c s h e 'Laird' ii.:vaeosfr:lsarlinar; ice mere difference therefore between the grant affect the a ._ o t h s to , a b n e d tiutrwneads naodtrirfetaasot naambloeinthe'antebsmenienento;nsuoilijoaio....:(l its being permanent did not in any t W o aY ,t i _ l l i m pre t . i i .'_t w . ( Hear, hear.) Another point arose on fir. nu 0 1; 0 1 a t he m ir i t s s t t a i k u e t . ion of l Awlaaysnoontoht waas acceorprpoorartaiolo! • ~', o p , Alc Corporation. . __woe powers of ita____ fou nded er o tinil _,, ' h istitution 0 0 _ Ac t 0 , donefofinneePdaroltfihaemtehnet by which was . powets by wh`c- this which the previou'oons Or and the Act of 43 Geo. 111. , bY powoeTaacorporation. The t'lo, versify, had none of the powers in order to p 0 __. slop r v e e n %t e e w d e ,, d itahndauctohnofirrimtyeda,nedxpressly stsatetdheth:,tiletriste rt.ip,Pfeb:rbpre lea ble stated that this Act was passedo The institutio nr: C. h duties of their calling, iit l This / th° lege. The ordinary here had 0 _ , f the a.,rown• t, un der apt was to be made by the fil by officee'r of the Governme:., not 00. an ecclesiastical corporarteionLadbuT was to be made an pit woawseranofelveie:nita.°:'lll;4l3so authority of an Act of Pe a iis rli o a b m te en e t ; d 131,1eatrnbeede_.°11;37a.' 'lil: 41:: to the proposition of the had given his reasons fovoti n g ul d l W e llington) a d Learned Lord ha d g 0 be !if. risen in the early part of t hedefboar reasons which that Noble an was not i n tended i by itselt a Bill. He (the Duke of ill• This measure support to the 13 • to stand 't r ent , ' It was , he d in be forerunner of any other measu:e.nd teth(eLtohridrdUrseea._Pi°o7;ll-1-ithei c on stiio n be He felt that the Church of En„, w ere bolt, be he church. 0 was bound to support that testant Church, and i i - s a be ol e , port the supremacy of the P t re a. the same p rinoi_r__ t he et? , ss as founded according to the parinciples of the t oay t hat He had t, ken the. Oath of Supremac assure the Most Rev. Preis! I t e ht:el been observed l_ r.°7v. fieditetitre preserved in this Bill which Geo. 111. to the Act ot irr h her uhf “oa rnencetnent of the reign of 0 ..,......„cio __ 0 quea therefore, that it was absolutelylp !tor in ... a lgid . Tb maintenance of the Protestant cncro irliaenyd h e nsus ori to ord s"e:taub—lodei 'lave° for tl!- I : *"*.'"- '""d,h, i In ,a3lb t 1114 'ution ttthis 'o htl t ''ter 4 ttuait Ae :bihitet h i ade ' at r°'ed t I t l r k i( )I 'hi L t 'Pre ki t ' hii 11.• ad en sea ant , at fl an nsi in epee Man the Duni . Poe ,n ever e; but the ire, C.:lr whe c no i r ogten r ir,ei t ie ciorr pe b. 3 was est i ' d not as AO ve il by th e sieie svaline:en:taeiscabii,:n.„......ruagesointo:aveoletoct • am not to ba that no roan,,_! scl the Parn:ti have a 'll e , ) beaten dole, rebellion IFI7, and to 00! id b n it eab'teleg):l,:sicllYitin; d ion to her Go' f o, for rte, by Int" Pa tt i rny t„ the e(Afr hold hat i rr tK I ncaY un:Th; t w t e l l , r l s ee it g i e tli ce e' i aa the _ g e ; :t rnselves to college ?stablish , ;hough be felt e 'batl 'r in whic heo6llolo them, and late. w bat And to ear t hat be was this, et . of t of the e re the violence, to J e it eiott. word about 14,00 And be never Pau or he HOW tit"neje be, opinion eel: b e s of that it that this h e a r d 'l Noble had never ep i 'ornament• The it Ws: races to show:t". othe` not the opinOitogetbeta peal the they °out PI ikely, or the Yes. Ifth large majemo, was only 3,045:3. ""91ia,01.70 had inerea „Oslo !bate of oak'? ,rfere? a e in which therd tiocol.ons not betwo an ~,of I. Id be f th e ,t there swou L„cao Ltion to the inevon:iee die; tion as would re_ btsio y had not only !.0., jogoeOni, but also a self 0 0 co recollected dor, i p sor ion which shouto , 0010 es f oto ~b t he 7th the to We w l ` boo :less was te assoc 'a t 0, ;ct of this Bill to_ysociates em fit to be the 70,010,1 Iv! ion. This bt.Pro. two lif gt. meant bi ke trie holieCliecootioo sit( sing therllalt pa rt id ote. pt .ained in ght tot;o bae„,„ o ars, _„ O .. ;s as existed ag oi 't this The, hey should ca rry ad that t i c k great counq'opirit ;u " p according to "„„iii not pro' ey certainlticert bad .be!....lated an those 0100 %Olen ru r to trt of the iln.e's ,i,b rega as the eaegh'!°,l that , entlowtOro.. t Act by w " I " o for the , tend that it wasof part first A c * don W v by the cell t cues 0011 8,0001., anu r itWO a t in' ;ered little wnethe Ivo of a s tween thee' in tbe„, itt nice whatever. vumeot I;voia there was an argbete owl m an annual one, be g ran .0 0 195 t eci year, when .n , otter 1 ;0 ot was effected, a , . 1 ` lee' he OCOL tbe 9,0001. or ~ic b for n the one case in wloiaister_oo4 had been made e*co ar:00, highest respect. per' is ale Minister, and one t 0, t veneration. fle IYe creasemade an increase totn,o7l,oeir ins.sit; rule of equity, _ ar si acced t hat the rule were CO ' • a ble ost de''r grail rut it was in the is Ibe avoided, and t hat ou pds. one, but also on other W oeet t the education of these pe,vi.s.,7o wboo7, id it was necessary that tone a 551:, lese students should have,._,,fre iabetiv: hould not be stopped. 'in learnt artance. They were en of tbi, shaad h not reasonable that men, I adrift at a moment's notice o t _ al ffect th e • I ' o to t re between the grant being a %ail). id not in any way a . ed io the tror bat els er point arose out 0. ou t t es 0 1 nooth was a corporation. It roo 4 1 ,4 s not a corporation: The vers of a corporation.. „ ei rre which it was foundeo footle • by which this institution 10i04095 Ac t ts . aa ;eo. 111., by Which the pre or led, expressly stated that the t e l* Y and power as the rulers The e el* the powers of a corpooration.to pe,ro, 0, Act was passed in rdnesr .tut.o_r_l3lo aY and position. The tt butfpohrearteionh,ad n pwoawse ra of e Iveie„r4mi the officers of the Crown. 11"...,der tno. an officer of the Governmen.t! wens_ tof Parliament. But he vitt ., ha d of the Noble and Learnre_d_Loe_d_Zil, ore part of the debate (Lu► d _ sons footing for the third Tea''.' t uk e Nobleof and d Wellington ) earhed hLoorudl d h addicts cgt,iiavitens: for b be the itsel by a d I. This measure was not intended r:rhdoinntrhgtchrtoomf measure . It tril It was to , sta et 12 Oath of SuprernaccDiaPlae port that church. 'they were be cy of the Protestant Church, a a bee inciple ha n. neestoafblttisihebeodcounci to rd Elev. Prelate that the sam e d irplie:.rsu_ro9l_6ll:teitti:SotoiluT°l); s Hill which had been observed f to a r reign absolutely te G ley° Liu! tboetnhtetiApocit oh..ef rllttiowbuepght:oo,4tiohae the Protestant Church in Ireland