The Sun. — London, England, 1851-03-19 00:00:00

CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD RAILWAY. The usual half-yearly meeting of the proprietors of the Chester and Holyhead Railway, was held yesterday, at the Euston Station of the London and North-Western Railway, Mr. Peto, ALP., chair man of the board of directors, in the chair. The advertisement convening the meeting having been read, the minutes of the previous meeting were con firmed, and the common seal of the company affixed to the register of proprietors. The CHAIRMAN said the report and accounts had been extensively circulated, and he believed they had long bee , . n the hands of every proprietor. Perhaps, there fore, it would be an unnecessary consumption of time to read them now, and he would suggest that they should be taken as read.—(Cries of "Yes, yes.") [The:accounts and report have already appeared, in The Sun.] This was the first half-yearly meeting he had presided at, an d he was on that account naturally anxious to place before the proprietors a full elucidation of the principles which guide the course of the direc tors, as well as the position of the company and its future prospects. Having explained the circumstances under which he had been called upon to undertake the chairmanship of the company, the Hon. Gentlemen pro ceeded to the immediate business of the 9eeting. The principles upon which he had taken the chair, and upon which his colleagues had given him their united confi dence, was the development of their traffic in every pos sible manner consistently with the preservation of the best possible feeling towards all connecting interests in the various lines which were themselves united to this company, either as adjuncts or as allies in capital. — (Hear, hear.) The board had felt it to be their duty resolutely to work with the London and North-Western Company most harmonionsly; and it was due to that company to state that they had met the Chester and Holyhead section of the board with the greatest amou nt of liberality and fair dealin g Cries of " Hear, hear."). There had been no desire on the part of that company to take advantage of their own position, or of the difficulties of the Cheater and Holyhead Company; and it was to their forbearance, and their kindness, and their assistance, that the pro prietors were indebted for the bright prospects which it was his duty and pleasure to reveal to them to-day. Acting upon the principle or basis of avoiding all unnecessary competition, and bringing on the Chester and Holyhead line the largest amount of traffic that could be possibly obtained by fair and-legitimate means, the directors had concluded an arrangement with the London and North-Western and the Dublin Steam Packet Companies, which he believed was fraught with the largest amount of benefit to themselves, while it would be equally beneficial to both those companies he had mentioned.—(Hear, hear.) The London and North-Western Company had conceded to them a large amount of redaction in the mileage rate of their working charges, and although they might have claimed the unexpired time of the ex isting contract, and continued for three years more to work the Chester and Holyhead line upon the old rate, yet upon this board approaching them to solicit a new arrangement, they at once con ceded a reduction which would save the Chester and Holyhead Company no less than 8,000/. per annum.— (Cheers.) The accounts for the half-year just termi nated had been made out upon the principle of the old rate, but had this agreement to which he was referring, and to which the meeting would be asked to give its approval to-day, been sealed, there would have been a saving from the 20th of September last up to the present time of nearly 2,000 L, which of course would have been placed in the hands of the proprietors to-day in addition to the dividend to be declared on that occasion.—(Cheers.) But that saving he viewed as the least advantage which would be derived from the united working of the three companies.— (Hear, hear.) The agreement with the Dublin Steam Packet Company and the London and North-Western would enable this company to look through from every part of Ireland to every part of England with which the two railway companies were connected, which was an a dvantage that could only be appreciated by those who had devoted time and trouble to the investigation of the subject. In the next place the agreement contemplated that the London and North-Western and the Dublin Steam Packet Companies should do all that in them lay to throw upon this line the entirety of the Irish traffic, and this company, in return, would do all it possibly could to continue to the London and North-Western Company, its natural ally, the entirety of the through traffic, while it left them perfectly free' to make all such arrangements as could conduce to the entire development of its local traffic. Tho arrangement contemplated the sale cf the steam-boats belonging to the company to the Dublin Steam Packet Company, upon the arbitration cf individuals selected on both sides, and in the event of the arbitrators not being able to agree, they were to choose an umpire. —(Hear.) Until the money was paid, this company did not release its hold upon the boats, while the purchase money was to be paid by annual instalments, the balances carrying, interest; so that on: the whole they stood in a position of perfect security, and on a sound commercial footing.—(Hear, hear.) Such, then, was the effect of the arrangement which had been come to between the three companies. Now, with regard to the position of their own line, many of the proprietors who had not been upon it were possibly not aware that at the present moment they had no line to Holyhead at all, for although they had spent 165,0001. on steam-boats, which, he maintained, all things, considered, was a most judicious expenditure, yet at the present moment their terminus wes a tull mile and a quarter from the end of the pier a: Holy head.—(liear, hear.) They lost by that break, owing to the inconvenience which resulnni from the transfer of the traffic, and parti cularly of goods, to the present temporary station, a large amount of advantage which their line , would naturally present to individuals going to Ireland.— (Hear, hear.) The directors had, however, made ar rangemeete for getting rid of this obstacle, and he might state in parenthesis that they were entirely indebted to the exertions and influence of his colleague Mr. Stanley, for being able to carry out those arrangements.—(Hear, hear.) They had agreed for the construction of a temporary line, without any charge from her Majesty's Government; and though the ar rangement would secure, with the now goods station and a new passenger station, and the erection of a hotel and refreshment rooms, and everything necessary to render the line popular in connexion w i t h the immediate transit of the steam-hoats, it was calcu lated that the expenditure for all this would not exceed 28 000/. ; and when he stated to them that this amount of expenditure, and its interest would be repaid in five years by the saving it would effect in the existing system of removing goods by carts, and in the conveyance of passengers by omnibuses, he thought the proprietors would have reason to c mgratulete thenvelves upon the successful and advantageous nature of the arrangernent—(Hear.) They had ialso made arrangements, in pursuauco of the authority given at the last half-yearly meeting, with Colonel Pennant by which extensive slate quarries were put in connexion with the railway, and a similar arrangement had been concluded with Mr. Ashton Smith for placing Conway querries also iu connexion with the line, and the company was now in Parliament seeking powers, with the view of extending the line to the port of Conway.—(llear.) Arrange ments were aleo fending with various companies in the midland district, by which from one point alone they would obtain mineral truffle to the exteut of 100,000 tons, which would have to travel over the whole length of their line. That was a fact which would convince the meeting that the mineral traffic of this company was wholly untouched.—(Hear..) They h a d a l so arr ange d for a " sidine," at Conway; and the party for whom this " siding" was to be constructed would pay them 101. per cent. annually on the outlay. This also was fur the purpose or accommodating the mineral traffic, and when he remembered that one indi vidual alone during the present year had sent upwards of 20,000 tors of slate flags to London by the line, he thought the meeting would agree with him that by these arrangements they were se curing an immense source of income, which at present was perfectly and entirely undeveloped. — (Hear.) While he was on the subject as to developing traffic, he would refer to a circumstance which occurred at the moment to his milted which he thought reflected great credit on one of the officers of the company. Although he occupied the humble situation of a station ma-ter, be thought it right to mention his name on the present occasion to s'inaulate others to a similar course of conduct. and to show the proprietors the advantage of having zealous and faithful servants. The station master at Conway observing the large quantity of shell fish that abounded on the coast, endeavoured to induce the fishermen to engage in the trade of selling that particular commodity, but failing in that attempt he ap plied to the company to invest a smell sum with the vieveof ascertaining 'the practicability of establishing such a trade; and when he told the nieeting that at the present moment the company were carrying from that station alone to Manchester between 150,000 and 200,000 shell fish per month, he thou g ht the meeting would agree with him that the experiment bad been most successful. The' , result had been not older to increase their profit, but t he trade e mp lo ye d fh not merely the fishing population, but the wh o l e of t h e women and children in preparing and sortin g the fish for market, and thus, besides to the contributing interest and welfare of that parti cular part of the populati on, it added to their coffers, and those of the per antiwa r and North-Western, no less than 2,0001. annum, —( g e ar.) He now approached another branch of hi s position of the company, When that was the financial P I PY. When they last met they were in the pos ition of a c t e h r e p y or d a t t a ion n crushed with the amount of its debts, and _ot_then see their (Hear, hear.) At way clearly out of their difficultie s. — ( Hear, difficulties what the present moment they ha d eb an e tythn assietance of ever—(Cheers) —for they had, t h e ex t ertions of the North-Western Company, individual members of the board in obtainin g te m porary loans, been placed in a position of safety a g a r° Security, porary and the meeting of to -day would be enabled the preferential stuck which was alluded to on create the mer occasion, but not et the ori g inal inter est, but at such a rate of interest as their im proved prospects would command, and which he had no doubt the money market would readily respond to.—(lieur, hear.) It had been said that the beard had created these shares at too low a rate of interest, but when he stated to them, that, after having investigated every cir cumstance connected with the railway -- taking into consideration the extension of the line :13 Holyhead —taking also into account a fact which hr had on the authority of the engineer g d at Holyhead, that one arrh of the new harbou r would shortly be extended 7;20 feet, giving twent y- twor r at the ebb tide, thus enab li ng 'etdepth of water packets always to ran . the American also that the d i t her e--bearing in mind S Ares.. for the recepteei the 1 ,,:21 h 3 Si t' 'ln I c'd • .. tUtc -_41114e0, and that „ Tci ti "^" I incline ft"'s ' to preuent4 their ease, Com fo r t , 'ug would b v deee and accommoda tiettaeleeleiag at the large amount of mineral traffic I which they were likely hereafter to obtain, and which at the present moment was simply stopped for the want of the extension, since last week he was obliged to re fuse a contract to carry 75,000 tons of ship coal to the port of Holyhead, because the company was not in a condition to carry them to the water's edge,—when he took into account all these various points, and taking them for what they were worth, he thought that in the course of next year he would be placed in the pleasing situation of telling the old proprietors connected with the company, who had exhibited so much patience and forbearance, that the profits had attained that pitch which would enable them to declare a 3 per cent. dividend— (Cheers) —he might be thought by some to be too sanguine in this matter, but ho could only assure the meeting that if he did not believe that the exertions which must and should be made in connexion with their traffic would answer, he would not on this occasion have made this statement, which he firmly believed time would prove to be correct. — (Cheers.) Now, another point to which he wished to refer was the hotel accommodation in the Straits of Bangor. The directors were anxiou► to accommodate the large number of visitors who annually visited the beauti. ful scenery of that district. During the last season this plea , are traffic was necessarily impeded by the want of hotel accommodation, and, therefore, on this occasion the directors had to make a novel proposal to the meeting, but one which be under stood other companies had not been loath to adopt. They were unanimously prepared to recommend the pro prietors to embark in the necessary expenditure for erecting an hotel for the aecommodation of those to whom he had already alluded.—(Hear, hear.) Par ties of the highest respectability were prepared to take the hotel at a rental which would yield a very large interest on the money so expended; while, on the other hand, the directors would take care to make such an arrangement as to ensure to the public the use of the hotel at reasonable terms, and to obtain accom modation for first, second, and third-class passengers, at prices which they could not hope to meet with in pri vate establishments.—(Hear, hear.) Of course this ar rangement, besides the interest he had already spoken of, would secure them a large addition to their traffic, and he was sure, therefore, the meeting would not be slow in perceiving the advantages of this proposal. He felt he had detained the meeting rather longer than he ought to have done on the present occasion, but it had been his anxiety to put them in possession of all the information in his power, and if there was any point which he had not touched upon, and information were required respecting it, that information should be given in the frankest and most open manner.—(Hear, hear.) They had nothing to con ceal from the proprietors, as they were but the represen tatives of the proprietors themselves; and while they continued to enjoy their confidence their best exertions should be given to the development of the undertaking, but the moment they perceived that they had not that confidence they would retire at once, as no amount of remuneration could compensate them for the attentioa they bestowed on the affairs of the company.—(Cheers.) The chairman concluded by moving the adoption of the report. Captain MooßsoM seconded the motion. After a long and very desultory discussion, in the course of which Mr. HENMAN deprecated the proceed ings pursued by the directors, designated them as ille gal, and called on the proprietors to mark their sense of it by not adopting the report, he moved as an amend ment to that report that the directors had forfeited the confidence of the proprietary by issuing more debenture shares than they bad authority to do. The CHAIRMAN in putting the amendment denied that the directors had issued any more debentures than they were intitled to do. All the debentures that had been issued had been issued under the best legal advice. None regretted more than he did the vast expense that had been incurred by the present company in the great works they had undertaken, but they had this consola tion, that in that vast outlay they had obtained for them selves the great high road to Ireland, from which no one could deprive them.—(Hear.) A PROPRIETOR thought, that as the original share holders could not live out of the property of the line, they ought to have some benefit from the property en joyed by the preference shareholders. He thought the original shareholders ought to have one-third of the pro perty of the line, and moved an amendment to that effect. Mr. JACKSON defended the course adopted by the di rectors. He had little doubt that next year they would make Bangor the Brighton of Wales, and would open a communication with Ireland which would be highly profitable to the company, aided, as they doubtless would be, by the London and North- Western Company. He had no doubt that by pursuing a proper course the credit of the company, which had been blown upon in the stock market, would be made secure, a stock would be raised that would always in sure a certain profit, and all the proprietors of the com pany might laugh at the stock market.—(Hear.) Major BUCHANNAN defended the conduct pursued by the directors, and said a great deal of time had been wasted in endeavouring to blacken their conduct. The CHAIRMAN then put the amendment, which was negatived by a large majority, and the report was de clared to be carried. The CHAIRMAN then moved that 16a. 6d. a share should be paid on the preference shares, which was agreed to, after a short but rather stormy discussion. Mr. JACKSON moved that the directors who went out by rotation should be re-elected. Captain FINLAISON bore the highest testimony to the conduct and character of Mr. Peto, and asserted that as long as he was in the chair, he had no fear for the interest of the company.—(Hear.) Mr. PET() returned thanks, and felt no doubt that it his life was spared all that he had stated that day would be realised. Alderman THOMPSON and the other directors who went out by rotation also returned thanks for their re election. They had hitherto had to do with rocks and quicksands, but they were now, thank God, in smooth water.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HENMAN then moved the appointment of a com mittee of inquiry, which was lost by a large majority. The meeting was then made special, for the purpose of rescinding certain resolutions for creating preference shares, for considering the traffic arrangements with the London and North-Western Railway Company for the purpose of authorising the directors to construct and maintain a temporary railway from the present terminus to Holyhead, for the purpose also of authorising the di rectors to erect an hotel near Bangor, and also consider ing the draft of a Bill to give the company power to ex tend their railway. Resolutions for the purpose of carrying out these pur poses were carried after a short though personal dis cussion. In the course of the discussion on the resolutions, A PROPRIETOR complained of the difficulty that was experienced by passengers in seeing the Conway Bridge unless they feed the policemen. The CHAIRMAN said that all had been done by the di rectors to afford every facility to the public to see that great work, and that after the Ist of May special instruc•• tions would be issued on the subject. A vote of thanks was then carried to the Chairman and directors, and the meeting adjourned at a late hour EASTERN COUNTIES RAILWAY. An adjourned meeting of the shareholders in the Eastern Counties Railway Company was held yesterday, in the large room of the London Tavern, in conformity with the resolution agreed to at the former meeting. Mr. Glynn occupied the chair. There was a very numerous attendance of proprietors. The proceedings were opened by Captain Kelly presenting the report of the committee of shareholders, which had been appointed at a special general meeting on the 13th of February, to consider the propriety of makin; a working agreement with the Eastern Union and th Norfolk Railway. (This report has already been published.) Captain KELLY then moved the adoption of the re port, which was seconded by Mr. PAULDING. After 301320 discussion the CHAIRMAN proceeged to state the objection which ho entertained to the report. He contended that had the committee been placed in a similar position to the directors they would have been obliged to make exactly the same ar rangement. After going through the report the Hon. Gentleman proceeded to comment on the state ment which the committee bad put forth that they had opened a negotiation with the other two companies, by soliciting au interview with deputations from those com panies. With reference to this he would refer them to a letter which he had received from Mr. Cobbold, of the Norfolk Railway, on the subject of this interview, which bad been forwarded to Captain Kelly:— (Copy.) " 7, Pall-mall East, Maretl 7,1851. "My dear Sir,—l deem it only due to you, si well as to my colleagues and myself, to detail to you prior to the meet ing of the Eastern Counties shareholders to-morrow, the re sult of the meeting which took place at the request of the shareholders' committee, and in accordance with the wish ex pressed by the Board of Directors of the Eastern Counties Company, between the deputations of the Eastern Union Company and the Norfolk Company and the shareholders' committee. " The desire of the committee that we should meet them having been communicated to the secretaries of the two companies, through the secretary of the committee, I lost no time in obtaining the sanction of the deputation of the Eastern Counties board, with whom we were appointed to negotiate, to such meeting; and I proceeded to Norwich my self, to urge my friend Mr. Bignold to come up and attend the meeting, as one of the Eastern Union deputation who had signed the agreement, knowing that he had an engage meLt at Norwich of some importance on the day named for the meeting, :and being apprehensive that a letter might have failed in prevailing on turn to forego his other engage ments. " I also went to another member of the deputation of the Eastern Union Company to come up from Scarborough, and both these gentlemen, as well as several others, attended at great personal inconvenience, as we were all anxious to give the committee appointed by the 'Eastern Counties share holders any explanation which they might be entitled to ask with regard to our respective companies. "We attended the committee at the Binopsgate Station accordingly, and after some preliminary polite expressions on the part of the chairman of the committee of shareholders, b mildestut on e We were EiFnply informed by him that the committee had ahead come to a unanimous resolution to recommend the shareholders to reject the agreement, and that their report was in type, and would be before the public the next day who attended withterm,andwe therefor •, took our leave; all the gentlemen " How fill:We. me concur in feeling that, to use the such treatment towards us was most un it courteous. oormdedwith their duties to the body of ' es % ex la plain they were appointed, I must leave it and to to their report to just fc. tsoh : tr l ee t hn i ol s sld g eel u vr ite unnecessary to make any comment on t t I , a: re t :rt, i, h \ o .1 ,0 th , hot T iniht an. I b . at its value by '(1 i" t ravciced at Ot-feuT: it n :a t: ::o l u " ;: ' t .ld i t n 't: t :2e tt l e n" 1 : 5 1 ;: groat' reeeip t ,, expenses which the E p ri e A r li c i e ig n. to: ,o l ; king Eastern Counties were amid still they would to have deducted from the have had ample margin, if the statement and comparison of the chairman of the shareholders' committee at a late meet ing, with reference to the working expenses on the Brighton line, is worth anything, and I might have directed the at tention of the committee to the facts that the earnings of the Eastern Counties Company, stated at 702,4531., includes the receipts for cartage and deliveries on both the Norfolk line and their own, and that the earnings of the Eastern Union Company, stated by their committee at 96,7151., were for the year ending in June last, for the best six months of which, as they well knew, the extension line was not opened to Nor wich, and that the weekly returns do not include the cartage and delivery receipts. "The committee, however, thought fit, instead of seeking information, to found their opinion on the imperfect data which they obtained, including the ' joint report of the prin cipal officers of the company,' offered as the officers' una nimous opinion, in compliance with a request made the previous day only,' upon a subject of deep importance to thousands of individuals, having an investment of millions of capital. "Believe me yours faithfully, (Signed) " JOHN CIIETALLIEB COBBOLD. "Joseph Glynn, Esq." Mr. ELLIS considered that the committee had not performed the duty which had been confided to them by the shareholders. They had had entrusted to them by the shareholders the consideration of the terms of an agreement between the three railways, but all they had done was to condemn the agreement without offering any suggestion of their own. The committee bad depreciated the guarantees, they had diminished the receipts of the Norfolk Railway from 111,0001. to 96,000/. ; and they had entirely omitted all mention of the diminution of a e working expenses which would take place to the amount of 21.0001., all which items would decrease the loss to the Eastern Counties Railway to 8,3001. instead of 70,8781., which small loss was one-fourth of what they were now losing by the competition of these two rail ways at the present moment. If they did not take this opportunity of making this coalition, they would have to repent afterwards, and no doubt some other railway would step in and make an agreement which would be much more detrimental to the interests of the Eastern Counties Railway. Mr. BROADBENT dissented entirely from these calcula tions. He could not see how the company could fail of losing at least 50,0001. per annum if this agreement were carried. He eulogised the report of the committee as an able statement, considering the deficient information which had been furnished to them. Captain KELLY vindicated the committee from the allegations which had been thrown out 'against them. The directors had certainly not shOwn any great anxiety to furnish the committee with information, but they had certainly come to the conclusion that, though they did not wish to doubt the integrity of the directors, yet they had very considerable doubts as to their judgment. Mr. NATHAN complained of the conduct of the direc tors in wishing to hang their millstones round the necks of the shareholders. He thought the sooner they got rid of the present board the better, they could not have a worse set.—(Cheese.) Mr. Cox entirely approved of the report; it had cer tainly changed his opinion of the board of directors. Mr. WADDINGTON, who was received with mingled cheers and groans, denied that the committee had not carried out the instructions of the shareholders; they had performed their duty, and a nice exposure they had made of the conduct of the directors. When the di rectors called a meeting together to seal the agreement, the information which they afforded to the meeting was anything but correct. The statement in the report was essentially correct, and it was impossible, by any species of argument, to contradict them. As to the Chairman's statement that it was he who had furnished all the information to the committee, that was not quite the fact, because in truth the committee had first called the Chairman's attention to the circumstances. As to the depreciation of receipts from 111,009/. to 96 ; 0001, the reason of that was that at the time of making this statement the committee had thought it best to make a contemporary return of the three companies, and this sum was the last return which they had in their possession of the Eastern Union Railway Company. The committee had taken the greatest pains in performing their duty; they had set before the shareholders everything which they thought they ought to know, and had suppressed nothing. Re was convinced that at some future period the share holders would thank the committee for their exertions. Mr. MAXWELL considered that the company had been injured by the rivalry of individuals, and he should re commend that the railway should be placed under the management of one paid individual. He was in favour of an amalgamation, and with this view he should move as an amendment, that the agreement of the lath of Fe bruary be adopted.—(Cheers and hisses.) Mr. GEAcH had gone into the committee with every desire to carry out the agreement of amalgamation; but he had been obliged to alter his opinion by the evidence which had been produced. He was, however, of opinion that the amalgamation in some shape or other would be for the advantage of the company, and, with a view to that, he should recommend that the directors should acquiesce in the report, and allow the matter to drop, in order that it might be taken up at some future time, when it could be discussed with less wax mtb. After a most interrupted and noisy discussion, The CHAIRMAN set the anxieties of the meeting at rest by assuring them that the proxies would not he used at the special meeting. Mr. MARGREAVES (a director), in a speech of great length, which excited the enthusiastic cheers of the meeting, denounced the agreement. If passed, the 6,000,000/ of the Eastern Counties Company would have been ruined, and remarked with great severity upon the interest which the Norfolk Company took in fastening their guarantees upon the Eastern Counties Company. At the conclusion of his speech the cheers of the meeting were deafening. Mr. DANIEL WHITTLE HARVEY, in a speech of great humour, supported the commiree, and earnestly called upon the shareholders to exercise a careful discretion at the present crisis of their fortunes. Mr. Sergeant GASELEE took occasion to attach great blame to the Northern and Eastern directors. Mr. KENNARD defended the course those directors had pursued. The resolution for the adoption of the report of the committee was then put and carried unanimously. A supplemental report of the committee was then read for continuing the services of that body; and the following resolution will best explain the intentions of the proprietary. Adopting the supplementary report, the resolution proceeded in these terms :—" And that they (the com mittee) be requested to continue their services, with a view of bringing their negotiations with the Newmarket Railway to a close, and that the committee have power to enter into negotiations with any other company or companies for the purpose of effecting traffic arrange ments between them and the company; and that such committee do report the result of such negotiations for the approval or otherwise of the shareholders at a special meeting to be convened for the purpose." The resolution having been carried unanimously, the business of the special meeting was declared to be at an end. The adjourned half-yearly meeting was then held. The business was to discuss the remaining paragraphs in the report, the adoption of tho report, and the forfeiture of certain shares; and the election of two directors was to be disposed of, in the place of Mr. Margreaves and Mr. Smyth. The proceedings were of the most tumultuous —or, perhaps, we should rather say excited character. The result, however, was, that upon the nomination of Mr. Margreaves, Mr. Archibald Boyd was nominated in opposition by Mr. Whalley. Upon being put to a show of hands Mr. Margreaves was declared to be elected by a considerable majority. Mr. WHALLEY demanded a poll, amid a perfect storm of yells. Upon Mr. Smyth being put in nomination, Mr. Whalley was placed in nomination in opposition, and upon a show of hands Mr. Smyth was declared duly elected. A poll was demanded for Mr. Whalley. The CHAIRMAN then, in a very handsome manner, stated that the seat at the board vacant by the resigna tion of Mr. Betts should be placed at the disposal of the shareholders. As a matter of form, that seat could only be filled by the directors; but in the present state of af fairs, the directors would be happy to follow out the re commendations of the meeting. Mr. WADDINGTON would take that opportunity of ex onerating himself from the charges that had been made against him in connexion with that company. He had accepted, it was true, 1,0001. of the company's money, but he did so in the belief that the directors had ordered its payment to him for the services which he had ren dered to the company, by bringing up its traffic from 6,0001. a week to 13,0001. a week, and for attending to the Parliamentary affairs of the company. When, how ever, the new directors had called upon him and pointed out the objection that had been made to this sum being handed to him, he repaid it.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman made other statements to show that he had refused to accept shares in this railway and in other companies, and had declined to accept offers of other kinds, because he believed that to act in a contrary man ner would have been to have adopted a course that would be inconsistent with right.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. JACKSON said, that in 1847, when the London and Westminster Bank refused to cash the company's cheques, he (Mr. Jackson) had made effective ar rangements to carry on the financial concerns of the sompany. The Proposition that Mr. Waddington be placed on the direction was carried, and a poll demanded. Mr. RONEY announced that the poll would take place at ten o'clock to-morrow (this day), and terminate at four o'clock. The meeting then separated. MARKET INTELLIGENCE. (From the London New Price Current, March 18.) SUGAR.—To-day importers of West India Sugar refused to sell under the rates of Friday; but the home trade demand was small. The private purchases'are only 152 hhds, &c, and there was no public sale. REFINED.—To-day Crushed Sugar was offered at lower rates; but there were few buyers. The home trade demand is limited for Refined, still there is no decline in prices. MAURITIUS. —This afternoon there was more disposition evinced to operate in Mauritius Sugar; at public sale 5,783 bags went at full rates, fine yellow sold at 40s to 418, low to good 36s 6d to 39s 6d, refining kinds 355 to 40s, low and very ord brown 27s to 325, and better sorts 33s to 365 per cwt. F AST INDIA.—This afternoon there was a good demand for Bengal Sugar, and 4,095 bags at• auction realised full rates; the Khaur kinds, however, went rather cheaper. The prices paid were for low dingy white Benares 39s to 408, damp and washed 38s to 40s, fine grainy yellow 42s 6cl to 43s 6d, mid and good 33s 6d to 41s, fair and mid soft yellow 34s 6d to 375, and brown ditto 27s 6d to 3Cs 6d. Madras realises full terms for superior sorts, but low went rather cheaper : at auction 1,117 bags sold, soft brown 27s to 295, yellow 30s to 31s, and bright 35e to 37s Ed. - filero n' public -Al. of Foreign :-,1;.;;41. -old At , ly'r ' , ETAT 1.n.: P , " upon S 011:i11 .! , ..:41P rllcl': at rAtti.r lover rate , . .i.o.t.AssEs.—Prices have further declined fur West India still a fair business has been concluded, and the sales are 210 LPILIN Darbad9e4 at 16a and 2QO PLW ether 15a to 165 6d per cwt. East India and Mauritius are dull of sale at 12s to 13s, but at present few parcels are on offer. Porto Rico and Cuba are held for 14s to 16.. but few buyers are to be met with. Honey is wanted and t he rates paid for West India are from 35s to 608 for low to fine. COFFEE.—This afternoon there was no further advance for Plantation Ceylon Coffee, but a good demand existed ; at sue tian 1, 1 00 bags, 114 casks nearly all sold at full rates, middl ng colory went at 57s,fine ord to low middling 52s to 5656 d, fine fine ord, ,greyish: 52s 6d to 545, low and good ord 46s to 48s 6d, common Triage 38s, damaged 44a to 525, and sound pea berry 59s to 61s. Native is not offered under 46s for good, but there are few buyers. "Other kinds are held with firm ness, but shippers or home dealers were not much dis posed, to operate this afternoon. At auction 299 bags Java were taken in at 47s to 48s 6d for good and fine ord, 102 casks Bombay wynard Plantation, sold at 575 6d for low middling colory, and at 60s for peaberry ; 15 brls Jamaica were all taken in at 483 to 50s for good ord, 16 bags Bahia 455, 189 bags Costa Rica at 4916 d to 50s, but damaged sold at 453 to 48s 6d, and 65 bags Rio ditto 38s per cwt. COCOA.—To-day at public sale 27 bags Bahia Cocoa sold at 30s for bright red. 'fEA.—To-day rather lower rates being accepted for com mon Congo' occasioned large parcels to be sold at 11 1 ,0 to Is per lb for new import. Lim—To-day there was more business concluded pri vately in East India Rice, but holders were compelled to ac• cept prevlois low rates. SrtcEs.--To-day at public sale 175 bags Pimento sold at rather lower rates—middling /id to d, good ord 4id, and one lot very ; ommon 3tll per lb. SezErrs.--Only small purchases have been made in East India Rum, but there are not sellers under Is 63 proof. Leeward Island is dull of sale, and the nearest price is la 8d proof Operations in Demerara have been to a limitey extent only at 2a 5d to ?s 8d for 30 to 40 overproof. Fine Jamaica from 34 to 38 per cent. over is wanted at 3s IA to 4s Ed; but for other sorts the market has a dull aspect, and a desire is evinced to sell 30 to 35 over proof, of bw and good quality, at 25 8d to 3s 6d. In Brandy there continues to be little doing for any purpose; there are free sellers Gf Cognac brands of the vintage of 1850 at 4s 4dto 4s 6d, 1849 ditto 457 d to 4s 9d, 1848 ditto 4s 10d to ss, 181 ditto 5s 2d to 5s 4d, and inferior sorts 3s to 4s. In Genwra sales are upon a more extended scale, common at is 74 to is Bd, and fine Is 9d to 2s; the value is still 9s 8d to if 9d for British made Spirit; and for Gin 81 3d for 22 per cent. under proof. SALTreTEE.--The market to day for Calcutta presented a dull aspect, aid' of 3,062 bags at auction a small part only sold at 26s fir refraction 9} to 8} per cent, being rather cheaper; the reminder was taken in at 263 to 26s 6d for refraction 8 to 14 per cent , of common quality. INDIGO. —There are not generally sellers under last quar terly sales' rates, but there is a reluctance on the part of shippers and homedealers to do business. Spanish is held for late dates; the market is in a quiet position, and there is a fair quantity ea offer. COCHINEAL.—Tie best sorts are wanted at full rates, but for inferior there is dull demand, and having a large supply prices have further declined. At .auction 300 bags were nearly all sold ; Hoticluras silvers went at 3s 4d to 3s 10d, Mexican silvers 3s id, black 3s 4d to 3s Bd, and Teneriffe at 3s 5d to 3s 6d per lb. For suction iOO bags declared. FlLUlT.—Currants have been in good demand at from 35s to 395, and good to fine 40s to 465. Turkey pulled Figs are operated in with =re freedom at 42s to 60s. In Raisins there is yet little bt,,siness doing; but sales are not pressed; Valencia 38s to 405., _ _ . TALLOW.—The demand continues a ctive for Russian on the spot, and there iaa been a further advance, fine new Y. C. selling at 415,and old at 39s to 39s 6d per cwt. For delivery in last three'months of the year several transactions nave taken place, and 41s 3d to 4is Od paid for new. Home melted is not offered tnder 37s 6d nett cash. AR advance was obtained for other sQls, and at auction 850 casks Australian were nearly all sold It from 34s to 38s for low to fine; 750 pkgs South Americat 35s to 40s, and 20 cks Belgian 36s 9d to 37s 9d per cwt. Zor auction 1,000 casks of Tallow are declared. _ _ _ . OrLa.—There has been a good business done in Cod pri vately. A public salt, of 39 tons went at 371 15s to 381 per tun. For Southern RN rates are not to be obtained. Of 80 tuns at auction a stlall part only sold at 30l 103 to 311 lOs for first and pecond sort. Seal pale is selling at 321 lOs to 33/, ,and other sorts at 301 to 311. For Sperm holders evince more firmness. At auction, 12 tuns were sold at 841 lOs tt 8. 1 for first sort, and some holders ask 851 1 10 s to 861. Cdcoa Nut is offered at a reduction, Of 130 pkgs at auctica a part only sold; Sydney at 27s 9d to 28s 6d, and Ceylont 293 to 293 6d per cwt. For Linseed Oil more desire is evinced to sell at 33s 6d on the spot and for delivery, at 35s 9d to Ns. Rape Seed Oil pale is offered at 34s to 355, brown 33s te33s 6d ; East India ditto 3 s to 32s 6d, and Foreign refined 3 ( .:t3d to 35s 6d. For Olive few buyers are to be met with. 11ipoli is to be obtained at 411 103 to 42/, and other sorts at 'to/ to 411 per tun. For Palm there are several buyers, andt9s to 298 6d paid for fine. Head matter continues scene and wanted at 90/ to 941 per tun. For auction 500 casks t,ocoa Nut are declared for Friday. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OP LORDS, March 18. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. "' COURT OF CHANCERY (IRELAND) REGULA TION ACT 'AMENDMENT BILL. On the motion of t4e LORD CHANCELLOR, this Bill was read a secondiime. PETITIONS. The Earl of moutiTcAsuELL presented several petitions against Papaliaggression. The Earl of LANISBOROUGH presented several petitions against the admission of Jews into Parliament. Lord REDESDALB presented a petition from some place in Norfolk against Papal aggression. The Marquis of BREADALBANE presented a petition from certain members of the Free Church of Scotland censuring the measure of the Government for repelling Papal aggression. He could not concur with the peti tioners. It was a most delicate question on which to legislate, and he though that Government was entitled to the gratitude of the country for the vigour with which they had met the aggression. The Earl of WINCRILSEA presented several peti tions against Papal aggression. He considered the Go vernment Bill was tukts6rthy of the Government and of the country. CEYLON. Viscount TORRINGTON rose to give notice of a motion for this day fortnight on the affairs of Ceylon. He was anxious to take the earliest opportunity of vin dicating himself from tie accusations which had been brought against him in relation to the affairs of Ceylon. While this matter was the subject of investigation be fore a Select Committee of the other House of Parlia ment he felt that he WAS condemned to silence. A notice of motion had been given in that House for March 25th, imputing to him the commission of the gravest crimes; that motion had been postponed, and, therefore, he gave notice that he should, this day fortnight, direct their Lordships' attention to this subject. He had been accused of the greatest crimes by the Chairman of the Committee, who had a perfect knowledge of the facts ; and yet that charge had been withdrawn, and, however important might be the financial affairs of the country, he thought the characters of a Member of their Lordships' House, of a Minister of the Crown, and of the troops in Ceylon, ought not to be lightly treated. He bad no thing to conceal, he believed he had faithfully dis charged his duty to his Sovereign and bis country, and be should not have brought forward the motion of which he bad given notice it he had not been prepared to justify all he had done. Ho had given this, notice in order to afford ample opportunity to those who had any charge to bring forward against him; he should be prepared to justify himself and to appeal to the kindness, the attention , and the justice of the House , satisfied that he should be enabled to prove to their Lordships that the accusations which had been brought against him were wholly without foundation.—(Elear.) COUNTY COURTS EXTENSION BILL. Lord BROUGHAM would, on Friday, move the second reading of this Bill, and would then state the additions and alterations he proposed to make in the Bill. The Bill to which he alluded was the Bill to whioh he had last drawn the attention of their Lordships, and had nothing to do with bankruptcy. Their Lordships then adjourned. ROUSE OF COriMUNS, March 18. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. HASTINGS lIIPROVEMENT BILL. On the second reading of this Bill being moved by Mr. PIGOTT, Mr. HOLLAND said that he must move that this Bill be read this day six months. Many inconveniences mast, as Hon. Members were aware, arise . from the institution of several boards o f commisstoners. The town was at present abundan tl y supplied with the conveniences which the Bill was introduced to cure, and the Bill was therefore neither mare nor less than an incubus which was already provided for. - Mr. PIGO a said the Bill was merely of a sanitary. nature, and therefore to oppose it was only a work of supererogation. The Bill, if passed, would work a great improvement in the peculiar position of the town, and was certain to secure a great benefit f or the inhabitants. Mr. FREWEN said that when he saw the names of three Members on the back of a Bill, and one of those refused to give his sanction to it, he believed that a suffi cient reason had been supplied for the rejection of the Bill. He should therefore vote against it. The House then di v id e d, For the amendment "' 59 when there appeared— 21 -38 Against it Majority ••• The Bill was consequently lost. FIRST READINGS. Several Bills were then read a first time. PETITIONS. Mr. VILLIERS presented a petition from Wolver hampton praying for the establishm ent of count y financial boards. Lc , rd CHARLES M ANNERS and several other Members presented petitions from Brighton and other places against the Papal aggression. Mr. BRA/STONE and Sir E. BUXTON presented several petitions against the Bill for the removal of Smithfield market. Sir R. INGLIS presented petitions from Clerkenwell and other places, sures for repressing th e p a pal aggression. praying the Rouse to take some mea - The HON. BARONET also presented petitions from several places praying that the Jews' Oath Bill may not pass into a law. Mr. MITCHELL presented a petition, signed by many influential mercantile firms in London, praying for an inquiry into the managemeet of the Board of Cus toms. Mr. SHAFT() ADAIR presented a petition from Cambridgeshire praying that the present Papal aggres sion Bill might not pass into a law. Colonel GILPIN presented several petitions for and against the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill, and for and against the Financial Boards Bill. Mr. WILLIAMS presented a petition, very nu merously signed, praying for the abolition of Sunday trading: They stated that nothing was obtained for the Exchequer by Sunday trading, and that in other ways much. was lost to the nation. " Sir DE LACY EVANS presented pretitiona from the parishes of St. John's and St. Margaret's, Weatinin ster,;yraying for some a lt era tion in the tariff. Ur. SPOONER presented a petition from the Bath ano, .i.Atton for th e promotion of Prole :tint Princt pies, ittutinz that within tke last t,.. years no less R aura' than 383.0001. had boat granted by the G torment for promoting the encouragement of the p l idi religion. r .~":', Lord NAAS presented several petitions from Sligo and other places praying for a remission of the duties on home-made spirits. Mr. SCULLY presented a petition from the county of Tipperary praying for the imposition of a duty on foreign corn and flour imported into this country, and stating that unless such duty was imposed the farmers in that part of the country would be ru►ned. Mr. Grogan Mr. Frewen, and other Members pre sented: a large number of petitions against the Papal aggression, and praying the House to adopt stringent measures for its repression. Mr. P. HOWARD presented a petition from Carlisle, and another from Darlington, against the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill. PRIVATE MONEY DRAINAGE ACT. Mr. B. COCHRANE postponed his motion respecting the extension of the Private Money Drainage Aot of 1849 until this day fortnight. JEWISH DISABILITIES. Sir G. GREY, for Lord J. Russell, postponed until Monday next the notice of motion, which stood No. 7 on the orders of the day, for " a committee of the whole House, to take into consideration the mode of administering the oath of abjuration to persons profess ing the Jewish religion." THE CENSUS. Mr. GOULBURN wished to call the attention of the Home Secretary to the fact that among the inquiries which had been addressed to different classes for the purpose of taking the proposed census, clergy men of the Church of England were required to give an account of the number of persons attending their place of worship, and also to make returns of their items of income with greater minuteness than was even required for the property-tax. He thought it was ex tremely unfair that a clergyman should be required to answer such questions. Sir G. GREY stated that a letter had been addressed by the Registrar-General to all such individuals, inform ing them that they were not legally bound under a penalty to answer these queries. The Government wished to obtain as accurate information as possible with respect to the number of places of worship, and of the aggregate of religious education throughout the country, and it was hoped that clergymen would forward this ob ject as much as possible. With regard to the question of return of income there would be no objection to with hold those queries. PUBLIC, BUSINESS. Mr. DISRAELI said an inquiry was made yesterday respecting the probable conduct of public business, and he should be glad to know from the Righ t Honourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he rightly understood the answer to that question. He understood the Right Honourable Gentleman to say that he did not intend to proceed with the financial state ment on Friday, and that it was proposed to take the army estimates immediately after the close of the ad journed debate. _ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Hon. Gentleman had correctly stated what fell from him last night. It would be necessary to take the army estimates the first open diy after the second read ing of the Eeclesiaatical Titles Bill had been disposed of. NEW HOUSE OF COMMONS. Viscount DUNCAN wished to ask the Member for Lancaster, when the New House of Commons would be ready for the reception of Members; whether the gild ing of the roof, and other costly decorations of the New House of Commons, had been introduced under the sanction and by the order of the Commissioners of the New Palace of Westminster, and what provision had been made for a better supply of water in case of any future accident by fire? Mr. GREENE, in reply to the first question, could state what Mr. Barry had written him, which was this—" As soon as the walls are sufficiently dry—(A lsugh)—we shall proceed with the finishing, which may be completed by Whitsuntide." With regard to the second question, he could only say that the Committee rooms of the new House of Commons should bo fitted up as plain as possible, so as to be in as strong contrast with the House of Lords as possible.—(Laughter.) The Commissioners, however, certainly - did authorise the in troduction of painted glass. With regard to the last question, he had simply to state that neither Mr. Barry nor the Commissioners had anything to do with the supply of water. Mr. THORNELY wished to know if the Commis sioners bad ever thought of gaining a supply of water from the River Thames in case of fire? Mr. GREENE repeated what he had already stated, that the supply of water rested entirely with the Woods and Forests. CASE OF MR. LEWIN. Mr. F. O'CONNOR asked the Right Hon. Gentle man the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he could give him any information on the subject of Mr. Lewin's case. Sir G. GREY said he had received a report from the Police Commissioners ' which:represented that the person to whom the Hon. Gentleman referred was arrested with another in the park, on suspicion of picking pockets. The other had been convicted, and was now undergoing his sentence.—(A laugh.) Mr. F. O'CONNOR—Does the Right Hon. Gentle man mean to say that the person I alluded to was tried and convicted? Sir G. GREY did not know which of these persons the Hon. Gentleman referred to.—(A. laugh.) Mr. F. O'CONNOR said he would repeat his question some other evening, as it was no laughing matter to confine a young man in prison for nothing. BUSINESS OF TO-NIGHT. Mr. ROCHE wished to know if Government intended to proceed with the adjourned de bate to-night if thelmo tion of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Mem ber for Carlow extended beyond ten o'clock? Sir G. GREY replied in the negative; but if the mc tion terminated before ten o'clock the adjourned debate would be brought on. Mr. ROCHE, under those circumstances, would be glad to know if the Hon. and Learned Member for Youghal intended to bring his important motion on to-night respecting the Raja of Sattara? Mr. C. ANSTEY had certainly promised to give way in favour of the adjourned debate, but it was only on condition that other lion. Gentlemen who had notices on the paper did the same; and as that con dition had not been fulfilled, he should go on with his motion to-night. After some further observations, the subject dropped. MUSIC LICENCES. Mr. STANFORD asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he had it in contempla tion to bring in a Bill to amend the Act 25 George 11., c. 26, in order to invest a discretionary power in the Middlesex magistrates of granting licences for music se parate from dancing licences ? Sir GEORGE GREY said, it was not his intention to bring in a Bill on the subject, nor had the magistrates expressed any wish that such a Bill should bo intro duced. BOARD OF CUSTOMS. Mr. MITCHELL postponed his motion for a Select Committee to inquire into the constitution and manage ment of the Board of Customs, until Friday, the 21st instant. TITHE RENT-CHARGES IN IRELAND. Mr. SADLEIR rose to bring forward the following motion, and his appearance occasioned a rush of Members out of the House:—" That it is expedient to substitute for the existing mode of varying the amount of tithe rent charges in Ireland a sett-acting system, whereby the amount of all tithe rent-charges in Ireland shall be increased or diminished every year, according to the average prices of corn, as ascertained by public advetise went, in a manner similar to the existing method of varying tithe rent-charges in England and Wales." The Hon. Member observed that this was a subject of very great importance, not only to the owners, but to the occupiers of land. He was ready to admit that the direct effect of this motion was to ask the House for a distinct expression of its condemnation of the system provided by the Legislature for the alteration of tithe rent-charges in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) It would be sufficient for him to say, with regard to the history of Irish tithes, that the Legislature at the period substituted for tithes in that country a compo sition, and then again for that composition perpetual rent-charges, which were generally called tithe rent charges. There was no concealing the fact that all questions of Irish legislation were determined by the views and opinions of English Members. The nu merical strength of the Irish Members was wholly unavailing as far as regarded any general question of legislation, and hence it was necessary that when any measure for Ireland came before the House, the English Members should bo made acquainted with the whole local and other circumstanes connected with it. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded at some length to state the details of the Tithe Composition Act, whic h was passed in 1823—the 4th George IV.; e. 99. By this Act the averages were taken from the seven years immediately preceding the year 1821. The next Act was passed the year after—the sth George IV. Instead of the tithe rent charge being regulated by the actual price of corn in the neighbourhood, it was settled upon the prices advertised in the Dublin Gazette. By the Act of 2d and 3d of William IV., c. 95, the composi tion was to be regulated by the then prices of corn. Other regulations had been established by the 6th sec tion, which he would read. The Hon. Member then proceeded to read the sections of the Act in order to show the average price of wheat within the county. He also quoted the Ist and 2d Vic., - passed in 1838, the object of which was to carry this out. These several regulations brought him to the point which be was de sirous to attain, viz., that the rent-charge should bo equal in its proportion to the prico of corn. In England this point was perfectly understood, and the matter was easily settled ; but in Ireland the thing was totally different. Everybody knew that the Gave,. gave no real criterio n of the price of corn in the district. Now it should be understood that no one in an agricultural district could possibly know or act upon the instructions published in the Dublin Gazette. The regulation w a ll s t herefore useless and unnecessary. From w hat be b d shown it was clearly proved that *CM could be no But it knowledge of this price in t he Gazette. w as answered, that according to the Ar e a no tice was to be posted upon the doors of t place s of w orship indicating this price. Of what use was s uch a notice as this, when it was recollected t hat in on many which in. s t anc e s there were no place s of worship How, then, these notices could be p osted? could the inhabitants know what the price of wheat really was? rhe lion. Gentleman then went through a s eries of calculations in order to show that while the prico published in the Gazeltte was 38s. 80., the real money obtained vras litt e more than :;+)i. Well, then, in ord er to oht;dit the at. lows IMP npeessary bete . - twit price?. it 'nests3ary Ikßye ,k cfrtific2tkv properly certified wa as to the circums tances of the case. This MO no small () woos ; but there wee a greater cue. This certificate was to be backed by some person who would sdd his own certificate of the truth of ~ he representation which he made. Then there was the evidence of Mr. Ford, by which it appeared that this re gulation was de facto a perfect humbug.—(, Laughter.) He trested that the time was not far distant when the tithe rent-charge in Ireland would be made redeemable by legislative enactment, being convinced tbat it would be productive of the best effects. It would relieve many scruples in the Encumbered Estates Courts, especially among Quakers, English as well:as Irish. It was argued that If his (Mr. Sadleir's) proposition was adopted some ministers of the Established Church in Ireland would be left without any income. But the answer to that objection was, that the revenues of that Church were not equally divided among the working clergy. Before the poor-law, however, the working clergy, on 150/. a year, had, in many cases, to keep up large mansions, the income of the parish going to swell the funds of some choral society in Detblin. At all events, if the in come of the working clergy was insufficient, a competence ought to be secured to them. The ecclesiastical anomalies that prevailed in Ireland were' a disgrace to the legislation of the United Kingdom ; but of all countries under the sun, Ireland was, perhaps, the only one where an acknowledged evil, or wrong, as regarded tithe rent-charge, should be' suffered—recovering as it was from a succession of famines, and the landlords being, for the most part, Protestants. He therefore c mceived that he was justified in calling on the [louse to adopt the resolution he should propose. The Hon. Gentleman then moved the resolution. Sir G. GREY said the question was one of great com plexity, involving the construction of many Acts of Parlia ment, and therefore the House could not fairly pledge itself to any course without first having before it the substance of any Bill that might be brought forward with a view to amend the existing law. The Hon. Gentleman had im ported m any extraneous topics into his argument, which had no reference to the term of his resolutions, and this was an additional reason why the House should refuse to pledge itself to any particular course without previously having the details of any proposed Bill before it. He was not prepared to say that after an examination of the various Acts bearing on the subject, if it should appear there were no insuperable objections to the assimilation of the tithe-rent charge sys tem in England and Ireland, there would be any disposition to pass over the subject on the part of Government. If the Hon. Gentleman would move for leave to bring in a Bill on the subject, he would say that the subject should have full and fair attention. But again he repeated it would be in convenient to pledge the House to any particular course; such as would be the case if it assented to the motion just submitted. Mr. HAMILTON considered, if the proposition were carried, it wolld not materially affect the present occupiers of land in Ireland. The landowners would be very un willing to gain any right that would give them an undue advantage. The Honourable Member entered into details to show that the tithe composition settlement which took place in England and Ireland was not similar; for, in the first instance, the tithe-owner got the full amount of his tithe, deducting the expenses of collection ; whereas the Irish tithe-owner had to submit to a reduction of 25 per cent., which went into the pockets of the landowner. It would be unjust, he considered, to interfere with the set tlement which had been arrived at, by any new legislation, without taking the different circumstances connected with the composition in Ireland and England into con sideration. He did not deny that improvement could be effected in the existing system, but he thought that a sep tennial ought to be substituted for an annual adjustment of tithe-rent. He hoped his Hon. Friend would withdraw his resolution. Mr. FRENCH would do nothing to promote the objects of his Honourable Friend, and he should be sorry to sup port any measure or motion that would have the effect of perpetuating the mischiefs of the Encumbered Estates Act. He hoped his Hon. Friend would turn the question over in his mind, with the view of founding a Bill on his experience, because he believed there was no indisposition on the part of the Government or the House to legislate on the question. Mr. S. CRAWFORD considered the existing difficulties in taking the averages in order to determine the amount of charge were so great, as practically to render the previous legislation on the subject abortive. He recommended his Hon. Friend to accept the proposition made by his Right Hon. Friend. Mr. H. GRATTAN advocated a septennial in preference to an annual average, as mere equitable to all parties. His Hon. Friend had objected to the operation of the Encumbered Estates Bill He believed that the general opinion was, that the Encumbered Estates Bill had operated as a robbery.— (Oh I) He had read in the papers only the other day, that an estate having a rental of 3801. a year could only gain a bidding of 1,500/. Mr. SADLEIR would not occupy any further time this ses• sion in discussing the question. He had given notice at an early period of the session to move for leave to bring in a Bill on the subject, but he had been remonstrated with by many Hon. Members for attempting to deal with a subject so large that Government only ought to undertake it, and this had induced him to give up his intention and to submit his motion and his reasons in their present form. But since he had received an intimation from Government that a Bill if introduced by him would not meet with Government opposition, and as he hoped that Government was disposed to recognise the principle for which he contended, although the task of introducing a measure of so much importance was usually distasteful and objectionable to a private Member, he would, on the encouragement held out, give his attention to the question, with the view of introducing a measure on the subject at an early period. With that understanding he would withdraw his motion. _ _ .„...... .......... Sir H. W. BARRON hoped Government would take up the matter, as it was not, or ought not to be, a party question, and Government were, therefore, bound to effect practical good whenever they had an opportunity. The question was not one of such immense difficulty as that it could not be grappled with, even by the present Go vernment. RAJA OF SATTARA. Mr. C. ANSTEY was not going to bring old topics before the House, but a new topic, which had arisen within the last six months. A petition had been presented by an Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) in relation to an infant, the lawful heir of the Raja of Sattara; which petition, though printed and sent to Mr. Greville, had not been duly brought before the Privy Council by Mr. Greville, the Clerk of the Council. The petition was to obtain the settlement of claims not of a political character, but to obtain restitution of private pro• party bel nging to the late Raja of Sattara, taken posses sion of by the British Government, on the mistaken assump tion that the Raja died without heirs. The infant, the sub ject of the petition, who had been adopted and recogn'sed as the heir of the Raja, sent a petition to the Privy Council, which petition was not presented by Mr. Greville, who in a note informed the petitioner " that the matter of the peti tion being of a political nature, did not come within the jurisdiction of her Majesty's Privy Council." This proceed ing of Mr. Greville was in the nature of a denial of justice, and the conduct of Mr. Greville called foc the consideration of the House; and with the view of bringing the matter un der the notice of Parliament he should move a resolution to the effect "that the matters of complaint set forth in the pe tition of the infant Raja deserved the serious consideration of that House." He contended that the petition eontaiued nothing at all relating to political questions, but referred solely to matters of private and pecuniary interest. But, assuming that the petition did relate to political matters, it would be found, on reference to the Act of Parliament, that it was competent to her Majesty's Privy . Council to enter tain petitions which had relation to political matters. As he could not understand the course taken by the Clerk of the Privy Council, or believe that Lord Lansdowne was aware of the letter written by Mr. Greville, he would move to call attention to the alleged obstruction offered to the claims of the infant Raja of Sattara in the denial of a hear ing before the Court of Privy Council, complained of in the petition to this House of the next friend of the said infant, presented on the 14th inst. ; and to move a resolution on the subject. The motion not having been seconded fell to the ground. ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES BILL. The order of the day for the adjourned debate having been read, Mr. BLEWITT wished to make one or two observations en this most impolitic measure. Ile regretted that on this question the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had avowed feelings and opinions utterly inconsistent with the liberal tenor of his previous career. It was with great sorrow that ha had witnessed the Noble Lord coming forward on this question, and, in the • sober garb of woe, proceed to rake up all the crimes imputed to Papacy in the early times of our history. Hesfor one would not, be a party to brand as mummeries 'any religious ceremonies practis e d r _. Y . his fellow-countrymen. The bombastic tone of i ll m: w Ise After man's manifesto had not in the least disturbed . b ted by any reading it he slept as soundly as before, It was intended torture. He could not believe that any insult n by the apprehensions of either purgatorial penance or inquisitorial the late be forgotten that late act of the Pope. It ought not . t o . be incomnlete unless to the Queen, or any injury t4the Constitutio , Romish Church was an episcopal chtuorcou r own Church, he it had a hierarchy. With respect reading the other day found in a work which he had c co l o ny ; that donsequen by the chaplain of the garrison Jurisdiction did not exist in tha s d were at present unconse the churches and- churchya t r at oftbSienrra Leone, that episcopal somb episcopal regulation and to wants of the colo cwraasted. for reg to a few colonists, was - it absolutely The Mats. If that were so aunteheoerassarytat.ec_pdr lb r wl A portion of our community not equally equally necessary; ii:flion s ouls? The duty of the Pope bering nearly eleven on b e Hon. Member for the Univer in such a case was workcleitsr. o n Church and State ; a ffi rmed sity of Oxford, in .I) nscientiously believing his religion to that a Mahomedan, 0 c ' tnrally desire its extension, and would be from God, would nit u roper and legitimate means for that be justified in using y all taitholic to be denied the same right ? end. Was the since ... . caucs' parson to place himself in the po- He would ask anY nd then say whether circumstances did sition of the PcPe , a he had . n the s teptaken. Let such a person not justify elb J . to be from g ionGod—let him be told that believe his r n verted ? and that many _ more were on the man y had been C O let him of conversion— . be informed of the many courte point Roman Catholic bishops in Ireland—let him read in paid to " the many speeches • in ~ M ansard " the head in favor of Roman Catholics by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government—let him con sider all these things, and then say whether circmstances did not relieve the Pope from i mputations of intending insult and m in j ur y whenappoint ed ' he bishops in this country. He did J not mean to say that the Pope could appoint bishops entitled to s it in the House of Peers with temporal rights attached to their bishoprics. The bishops whom the Pope had ap pointed claimed none of these things, yet the Noble Lord maintained that their appointment was an insult to the Queen and an alien on the independence of the nation. He was as I °Y 4l Vtitiy other subject of her Majesty; but he did not in this instance feel hiniself called on to join in pass ing a law against imaginary affronts and problematical mis chiefs.—(Haar, hear.) The Hon. Member for the city of Oxford had said a great deal about the introduction of the canon law, but he was of the opini o n expressed by Sir M. Hale, that the strength of the canon law in this kingdom could only exist either by consent of the Parliament, or in some pa , ticular C/1113 by immemorial usage, and that it would no more be binding here than our law would in Italy. If the present Bill were passed it would certainly be evaded. An attempt was made in 1748 to force the Scotch Highlanders to wear breeches, but they evaded the law by going clad as before, and carrying the breeches over thei r sh o ulders.— ( A laugh!) Some equally subtle evasion would be found to de feat the object of this Bill, acid as it would only create irr - tation and annoyance, he readily supported the motion that it be read a second time that day six months. Sir R. LOPES s aid that but for the very strong speech of the [lon. and Learned Member for Plymouth against the Bill he should notperhaps have troubled the House with any observations on this occasion. But living in the immediate neighbourhood of the town represented by the Hon. and Lektneci Gentleman, '4llll knowing the almost unanimous feeling of the inhabitants of that ti wii. t o ' felt, called upon to Cly that the =entinrents which had been expreq. , e(l by the IHon. and Learned Gentleman were totally at variance with then of the balk, if 9.9 t with two of the whole of the Oil% stituency, and the great mass of the. population,—(Hear.) He felt called ' upon to come forward on the present occasion, the more especially as the Pope had included the•principal towns of Devon in one of his newly-created bishoprics, with out having taken the slightest trouble to ascertain whether he hod any locus standi in the matter. The establishment of any such ecclesiastical arrangements by a foreign power was not for an instant to be compared with ecclesiastical arrangements made within our own borders by religious communities who adhered to no foreign power. It Ro - ' man Catholics would disconnect themselves from Rome, and own no other foreign supremacy, there would be , an end to the contest, and no legislation would be necessary. The arguments of the Hon. and Learned Member for Plymouth had been so promptly disposed of by the Hon. and. Learned Member for the city of Oxford, that be should not now 'repeat them. As a represen'ative of one of th e most important counties of England, he must state on the past of the inha bitants—and more especially on behalf of the inhabitants d Plymouth—that so far from no wishing legislation on this question, they were utterly disapp inted at the inadequaeY of the measure brought forward by the Government.— (Hear, hear.) The first declaration of the Noble Lord atthe heed of the Government, and his statement in introducing the Bill, had given mach satisfaction. He believed that the oble Lord was sincer, and that he would have proposed t he . very different measure i e f he had been allowed to have hid own way in the matter.—(Hear.) Other legislation was • pro- raised if the present Bill should be found ine ffectual; but the best motto was principiis obsta. The languag e of the POO proved the unalterable and domineering pri nci p le of the Ito- . inish Church, which required implicit obedience to its SP' norimacy. The Noble Lord seemed to think t hat the oon tr Y . , would tbe satisfied with the Bill as at first proposed.' r lol c ' then could the Noble Lord imagine that they would be sda" fled with it now, that the more stringen t enactments fete omitted from it? He should vote for the second readiug but with a hope that the more salutary parts of the ding would be restored in Committee. ' Mr. WALTER said he had a similar excuse for nresentin ', himself as the Hon. Member who had just sat down, for the_ ~ name of the town which he represented had been made t., 1! of by the Pope to designate one of the Papal bishoprics. ..tes's rode for the purpose of protesting against what he deernen.stu_ be an act of unwarranted aggression and usurpation on 77 part of the Pope. He called it an act of aggression Ro an it violated the provisions of the Act by which R em" act of tolics were admitted to seats in that House, and' in 3 , osw • usurpation because under no circumstances was te i c . ., tie r e i justified in annexing territorial titles to any w e 7 t he office he might create in this country. In the course o often debate the clause to which reference bad ,been made, in the Act of 1829, had been misqu oted at lessradoLetrf times. In that clause it was stip u l a t e d that if allY Pe r s ev et , other than the persons authorised by law sh oul assnallsna - s , i dor use any title of archbishop, bishop, or dean, in liable se * ' Ireland, he should for every such offence be penalty of 100?. He had heard it contended that referred only to existing dioceses; but having be bad fully not only the Act, but the debate, in anY part theexisting" or any equivalent vrord ins was that a of the discussion, or of the Act. The max" — an d a s he penal clause ought to be interpreted strictly ; he was r e aedc clause' referred found no reference in the clause to particular sees, he foTtinbde entitled to infer that it had a general significatiroenrred w Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon bad Act,nu and the part he had taken in the Charitable Bequests s. had asked what was the meaning of b` officiating i _ „ "7 1.. trict," but having a diocese? or " ennerintenclingther7es, gregation," but being a parish priest? se that n° hops o f de murred to the right of archbishops or 1)1611°' lities, he Romish Church claiming titles from certain loci' mds . ea snpplied the best answer to what he had Prelgelsebee vanced. The speech of the Honourable and Learne for Plymouth had been referred to, and be admitted at i t ia b pai : more able speech on that side of the question it w as an bad sible to imagine. The Hon. and Learned Gentlenl_ time asked whether the first bishops of the Church, in, s tne te kieg of the early Roman Emperors, invaded any right s 'Y se estion the titles which they enjoyed? But tha'' il e a, was might be met by another. What, it might be as p lu ses. the notion which the first Roman Emperors had of 2 . l_'s' eref e. tian bishop? t The only notion which the early bl' arable , could have of a bishop must have been as of a noor ' sect,lni whose forlorn being—the leader of a perhaps despised r elite& only claim to distinction was a priority of being ne ° bishop ha d He contended that in those early ages the title of —, t m ight - no poli,ical significance whatever. Very different ' , w hieh be after the recognition of Christianity by t he orderableStaii_essee. r inot n p i l then would find itself called on to exercise en trot over these bishops. Immediately after the Wog' s _ itse lf Christianity by the State the influence of the laity rea rge "` se s e d felt, and from that time to the present the la c i a T eu r e thre P oe_L s y Olf ics e :" ": 1 by the civil power, had always exercised a with that of the Church in the appointment of believed that if the measure of the Pope was bishops' take ' allow only do effek t the dominions of the Queen would be the 1 cc.. 1 1 minions in the world in which the full develop co ntrol s ° o otres --1 clesiastical functions was allowed without the by the laity.— (Hear, hear.) His quarrel witu was not for his claim of spiritual authority, but for ills ff . rence with the territorial dominion of the Cre ; ,7 ll „ e s the objected to the form which was used on that occasw — d a rm. ' '. • most intolerable expression of spiritual dominion an, we of gance possible. It was true forms were but the thaw° danger of realities, but although this country might be in novas.und receiving any injury at the hands of Rome, still it n u s that ' to protest against any extension of the power 0 Prompt : Church which did not want intentions, at least, t° its encroachments. He did not agree with an Hon . Learned Member who had already addressed the House, the - the Church of Rome or its members should be allowed -s+ , , decide for themselves that very difficult and delica te quer tion of what constituted the difference between civil and rell: a'' gious affairs.—(Hear.) If they were allowed to d ecide wh at were the limits of spiritual jurisdiction, and the nature 0' territorial titles, the Romish Church should be pe rmitted to. decide also on matters of a mixed spiritual a nd temporal character. He considered that the State owed to the prof"- sors of all religions protection from the abuse of th e authority. of their superiors.—(dear.) The Hon. Member for Sheffiel" said it was only the submission of one man's min d to 00" ther, and asked what business was that of any one else ss Now he (Mr. Walter) thought that was neither a hut:nano to r ajust view of the question. He thought we had no right t refuse people the consolation of spiritual advice for the es: ercise of their temporal duties.—(Hear, hear.) In most countries abroad the State exercised a spiritual control over the Roman Catholic Church. In Austria, for example , no sentence of excommunication could be carried into effect against any person unless the State was satisfied that the offence committed was merely of a spiritual cha racter. The Honourable Member here referred to, and . read, a couple of long extracts from a work by Dr. Twins on the nature of the appointment of bishops, which the writer , contended was a temporal act and not a spiritual one. He could not forget the step which the Noble Lord at the bead of the Government had taken in respect of the present ag" gression, nor the agitation which that step had given rise to' That agitation would open the eyes of the Roman Catholial ' • in a way in which they had not been hitherto o p ened"' (Hear) —to an important fact, namely, the ti deep-rooted Pro testantism of this country.- (Hear.) It might be praccal'," true that the Pope might believe, and did believe , that thill couctry was on the eve of a great Catholic movement's. e ; (Hear.) Even amongst Roman Catholics possessiaggres information and knowledge of the world, there had prevailesi a great mistake with respect to the religious feeling ofthist " country. He had had the observation• made by R°lll— to himself that the acts of a few bewildered clergy" men and weak-minded laymen had been mistaken for a d e ,; liberate intention, on the part of the Protestant hodYste"' England, to abandon that strong position it had hit,t er t , maintained with regard to the Church of Boma. their . hear.) The agitation upon that question would open e, , eyes to the great mistake they had made, and teach 41 , Pope to be more cautious in future in trusting the rePr e o . sentations of those who brought the condition of this country. It would also teach the Roman Catholics to be more careful in carrying °l e him intelligencer , their system of proselytising throughout the c ountry be . system which he thought was a calamity to be aveide u t e o f cause of its evil consequences and results. If the peopi , _. this country were once possessed of the idea that there nest isted any danger that an unmarried Roman Catholic Pa i l would be set up side by side with their own Pt ru s t h e clerg,if they thought there was any danger We' , sd death-beds of their fellow-countrymen would be intercep; by such a person - if there was any danger sof conles si f es being generally introduced, or of their daughters beingstss duced into convents —if the people of England, in fine, were not under the impression that the law would protect the!! , in such cases, they would be inclined to take the law Ow their own hands .—(Hear, hear.), The on. Member hi i. briefly referred to the operation of the measure with respec s to Ireland, but in so indistinct atone that we could no' clearly catc Protestant He then went on to say that so long as the constitution in Church and State con - -' tinned in this empire, so long should he resist every attempt a t encroachment upon it. Althou g h the Noble Lord, aft e his memorable letter, might have produced a measure '-. m ore worthy of the expectations raised by it , he (Mr's' Walter) would supp ort the p resen t Bill in the hope rat the objects it had in view might be further and carr ied out on a future occasion when it went into C°111" mittee.--(Hear.) Mr. ANSTEY said a reason alleged for supporting t t li v e . present Bill was that it would induce every man of_proP er ' c li however small, in Ireland, to leave that country. 1 parse fita is a sentiment should have been received by those Who t r ported the Hon. Member was not astonishing, but s uith. should not have been repudiated by others was strange. lee could not but have an exasperating effect on the Irish pe?_ln r : and for his part he protested against such sentimens, 197;r: he did hot think were shared in by the Ministers o_,'" Cron n. If he thought so he would not only are,eppose7l7.o7 upon the present, but upon every other Papa .D 0 . 7- might introduce. It was one of the greatest and lir B 11 tbat it ing misfortunes of discussions upon the present &s iege, it mposed upon its opponents the temptation ifs ft.esnst then by retorting with effect the accusations broug , .. - rsstee lies' selves on its supporters. If one party bad ti !!g. o 'sloveni,tll . tace, the others had their vicars of Wr e ' l b i t s everYgle respect to the pi., sent agitation, he found t man came forward, in the name of his from all sus of the Church, to protect himself and party lead on the picion in the matter, by being 'the first to coon g __ people of this country in the chase of the common air, hounds in Ist the Church of Rome, in the hope that the . ,_ thou ght follow carrion and not see the real game. own particular section Al he deceived the Hon. Members for Oxford and Cabia themselves if they supposed that in directing.thepeoptlf: minds to that matter they misled the public mind be l o n ged. abuses said to exist in the Church to whist' they t°,e The Hon. Member for Oxford city had shown in e it 7 l 3 - e s speech of his—not his late one—by what vie" ~. The animated with respect to the Roman Catholic C Hon. Member would place in the hands of thhell so this power exercised by the Pope of appointing) Wit pewee country and in the colonies, and would Plac e , ss t se ntended without the interference of Parliament. He a'" sw catholic that if the Pope attempted to regulate the RA 133 "„ e se of the religion, not only in England alone, but in anY leti v e, He Queen's dominions, he violated the Queen's P - strut Quern, (Mr. Anstey) denied that. Everybody knew rst Eng ecclesiastic:l law was strictly 10Cal. The Ch u m , R e inan Itcuueen the land was the Church of this realm onlY• Catholic Church, every dissenting church , ns e ao y iti e nes ry i; f e ee o n : n d ia_tnu : d o i s Christianity, every form of religious belief the laws of God and nature, enjoyed as in her Majesty's foreign dominions as the Church 0f P- , s g le , he itself ; and the Papal bull and the letters pateinn to : nly Crown rested there upon the same founclation,i b ed . d t i o g ' A; d a" 9b!":; e upon nceo t r h o e rhem consciences iseT o h f e il men oa .asutehnelyb erf felt o r i impxefolr 5 id there. they aggression of the Pope ; but it Is a • i i i is o n e ot i lLec a. ause era as ber o ne were Roman Catholics who protested against the pre:aere ready to accept the tyranny In prcesenti, the other in .f posed. The Bill before themwchoni H sis e te c d ou o ld f two nor c a l g a r ti e se e s , l o : o ; titles.Bi l l Didwnaost to the only itle o s the Church _ s , rby land afford as much reason as the Church of Ireland a ? ''' leegpiisalcaoptealton the barren quaesftisconoro. he thought it was with Ireland t e 01 ' ' d an exemption. . should there be an exception. at all ? If there 1/ ha ta.}.)o. The cases of two bishoprics in nister ougt to begin. the Pope ha l. only interfered Fn far as to san ,tio ', se easel had been a.luded to, those of Ross and Galway, but rattlesn....b:,. lie CO tslen in file present inattvr in England, t it e we " S.,id been Al r g (1 v don , in 11•14 rd. , With r'sPec t t o "• vent!,` • . . ^ Or: °fore th e wrong for the Pope to have taken the woe Dh. did not approve of it.--(Hear.) lie thouet lt `7.7: - ~~ , ~~ h 14' THE SUN, LONDON, 'WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 19, 1851.