The Sun. — London, England, 1851-05-13 00:00:00

CRICKET RACING FIXT ICES FOR 1851 "MAY. York Spring Bath 15 North Mats ...... Epsom ilarpenden I 28 JU Ascot ...... 3 Beverley, Hull, &c 4 Hampton ll Manchester ....... •• • 11 Cuggeshall Southwell (Notts) l2 Knighton • /3 Loo (Ho lland) l6 Bibory ....... . JUI S. Lancashire (Newton) 18 Stockbridgf , Barnstaple & N. Devon 19 Lenham . 2O Winchester 2O Newcastle Macclesfield Salisbury Ipswich .. 26 Newmarket ............. CartLle ........ 1 LLudlqw ................ 2 WAneaster ............. oree, ter 3 ............... 7 Liverpcul ....... 9 AII, Zitainford•"• 00000 3• ... %ley Nottingham Chelmsford. Odihara .... Goodwood . 1118 T. Cantkrbary. York .... . Southport 1 Derby ...... . Egharo...... Lynn .. DIEU& Lester Doccaster Sandbach Bedfo r d 16... Egliarun Park ... 23 ur 24 Mancheatf-r A utumn 25 Newmarket F.O ....... Ripon ..... Bright, ..***** 4 ************** 6 WoiVerhamptun...."-••• 11 6 Run :ingdon ........... 2 Reading .................. : SEPTE Scarborough Eccles War wick Lincoln Rade] i ifo • 8 Lichfield ... o nth ... . 'Weymouth ......... . . 10 OCTO 20 Monmouth ............... 1 Richmond ............... 1 Gdedonian ••• 1 Chesterfivlii 1 etosster Worcester. , BER. Yorkshire Union Runt 8 Wrcxhans .............. 9 Newmarket S.O ... . ...... 13 Newmarket Houghton.. 27 NOV` BgL First week. FR:Fix — "A` CH RAILWAY. TRAFFIC. The follow' ceipts of 1 ,2 1 :41 are the last returns of the gross re- Ncarru a ; i r in cipal French Railways :- 276,7731. ; Kod From April 30 to May 6; Passengers, BouEN._vros, 200230 E; total, 477,003 f, 7 8 , 2 73 E.; goodsllB6APril• 27 to. May 34 Passengers. EAVRE.—F rura 0 A 611 1; total, 165 . 234 f. 2 6 , 9721 .; goods, 33ZAGrkir;2,t7ottal 60A,10103.813. Passengers' ORLEANS.—FrOaI 94,166 f: ; goods, 117,8,f1 9 i ; 28 t . O May 4 : Passengers. 13onnzaux.--From April t Val, 211,995 E 43,6891.; goods, 40,9541.; tot a l, 8 4 May 4: Passengers, ViEnON —FrOin April 28 t;4443f. 4: Passengers, 41,7321.; goods, 43,0641.; total, 84.7aY BounoGsr.From April 28 to 't1 9 ,,, 6 , f * . , 17,7651,; total, 37.964 f: : Passengers 20,1991:; goods, NANTES.--From April 26 to M ay 2 23,516 E; goods, 15,121 E; total, 38.6371, """ ass "gers , STFASBUITG --From April 30 to May 6 : 102,8741,; good", 59,032'.; tots!, 161 . 90 6 E. ---(n g eri BALE.—From April 21 to April 27 : Pais fn goods, 16,301 1 ". ; tote), 45,558 f. "lera M O NTERE,AI7.--=F;oill April 23 to April 29: Passengers . 11,525 E; goods, 13,253 E; totil, 24,778 E Moss. —From April 20 to April 26 : Pa:s,!ngers, 129,341;E; goods, 30,555 E; total, 151,9011. -01TARTRES.—From April 21 to April 27: Passrngera, 32,3211.; goods, 13,709 f,; total, 46,030 E ST. IVES.THE FISTIERY.—During the past week the boats on the mackerel fishery have been very successful, taking from 300 to 5,000 per boat, which have been sold at an average of 7s. per hundred of six score. One boat landed on Wednesday 3,000, her own catch, which, with some few others that came to land, sold at Bs. or 9s. per hundred. — Royal Cornwall Gazette. ELEVEN OF ENGLAND v. TWENTY-TWO OF ST. IVES. This grand match was on Saturday last, its third day, brought to a conclusion, St. Ives winning by that)? ruts. The following is the score : ST. IVES. Cornwell, b Wisden 3 a Box, b Clarke ...... 6 Smythe, run out . —.. 1 b Clarke. W. Brest, c Felix, b Wisden— 5 b Hillyer • Casson, b Wisden...- 0 b Wisden Lord Sandwich, b Wisden ... 0 b Wisden ...... 3 . 2 Bird, c and b Wisden ..... .. 0 not out Press, b Wisden 0 b Day...... ..... ..... . co • Norris, b Wisden .. ..... • Stevens, c Hillyer,b Wisden 5 b Wisden Spencer, b Wisden Payne, b Wisden Boning, c CafTyn, b Clarke .. 1 b Hillyer . ........ Nash, b Wisden .... 6 b Wisden . Arnold, b Clarke cbardson, b Wisden .... 1 b Clarke 0 • sins, c Hillyer, b Clarke ... 4 s Box, b Day ... .' ['unwell, b Clarke.-- ..... ~... 11 b Day .. W. W aldock, c Clarke, bWisden 0 c Felix b Wisden ... 13 Jorner, b Clarke .. 0 c Parr, , b Day ...... 3 . Buttriss, Ibw, b Wisden... 1 c Hillyer, b Day ..... 1 .•• Beck. c Day, b C1arke......... 0 b Day.... ..0 H. Waldock, not out ...—.... 0, b Hillver ... . Leg bye ,........... 1 Bye l;1b, 1 ; wide, 1 3 . - THE ILEVEN. Caffyn, ..... 3 b Arnold Thomas, b Arnold .......... 0 b Buttriss Parr, c Stevens, b Arnold ... 1 c Norris, b Buttriss l9 Box, b Arnold 0 b Buttriss • Guy, b Buttriss -1 b .Atnold ...... ....—•••• 4) Martingell, b Arn01d........... 2 b Buttriss ......... 2 3 Wisden, b Buttriss ........ 8 b Arnold .................. N. Felix, Esq., b Arn01d...... 5 b Buttriss ...... 0 Day, b Arnold Hillyer, b Buttriss ....... . 4 not out ........... ... ••• Clarke, not out 6 b Buttr i ss Byes 6 Bl,lb 3, w 1 —.... 5 MZETING OF THE COMMITTEE OF THE tUARYLEBONE CLUB—TuE PLAYERS AND BOWLERS. The commitree of the M.C.C. held a meeting in the Pavilion at le.rd'a last week at which the following reso lotions were agreed to - " That the M.C.C. Players shall infhture receive 10s., in addition to the usual pay, for each match at Lord's, when not confined to a single day, making 3/. 102. each for the winners. and 21. 10.6 each for the losers. " That Mr. Dark communicate to the bowlers of the kac. that it is the wish of the committee that any player who shall stand umpire in any match , shall pay particular attention to the bowling, in refe r • ence to Rule No. to of The Laws of Cricket an d .; ' an y bowler shall in his opinio n on such occasion trans gress that law, by throwing or jerking the ball, or if the hand of the bowler shall be above the sh ou ld er in b delivering, that is, when the all leaves the hand, he shall call. no ball. As it - IS impossible to defin e a throw or jerk, he must for m his own opinion on those subjects, but bea r part icular ly in mind in all these cases that if he shall b are the s lightest doubt as to the fair ness of a bowler, it is his d ut y to call no ball. If in any match he sh a ll call e s x ha p l i l ai be n his slowed reasons to any bow ler unfair, and such bowler bowl by the other , umpire, he shall to such other umpire, and endeavour if possible to agree with him us to the course to be taken during the remainder of the match. But if the differ f.aelme of opi n i on s h a l l b e so Treat t h at no agreement u be com e t o , h e s h a l t ac t accor di ng to h i s own opi 10n, and shall, as soon us possible after the match, re- Silo the committee of the M.C.C. the circumstances the case. " Although the committee of the Marylebone Cricket Club address these observations to their own players in particular, they recommend the consideration of them to umpires throughout the country." , DEATH OF REDGATE, THE CRICKETER A fortnight since this once celebrated bowler, for years the pride of his own eleven, and the terror of his adversaries, breathed Ms lest at .Old Radford, near Nottingham, after three years of painful suffer ing. The lamentable bodily condition into which Redgate had fillet] was the effect of the habits in which he had indulged, fur several years preceding this last event, and not unfrequent were the pecuniary aids which were tendered to him by his friends and others who had been his admirers in his palmy days, when, hem the severity of the then attack, he was an.. able to follow any vocation Whereby he could ea rn th e ordinary means of subsistence. 16 will be seen from the following outline of his hi , ituri, whioh we extract from Mr. Denison's Sketches of the Players, published in 1846, that at time of his death, Redgate, had he lived until the 27th of July nextewould havecompleted his 41st year. "Samuel Redgate was born at Arnold, about four miles from Nottingham, on the 27th of July, 1810. He stands 5 feet 8, inches in height and weighs when in health 12 stone. Redgate is a lace maker. He had several years been celebrated as a bowler of much eminence, ere he came up to Lord's, in the season of 1835, where he made his first appearance in a match--• The Mary lebone Club v. The Sr. John's Wood Club.' His first public match, however, was in 1829, in a match be tween Leicester and Nottingham, in which he scored 39 and 27, and bowled 7 wickets. In one of the matches wherein he was engaged he bowled 13 wicket_e, a feat which has rar e ly b een equa ll e d . In one of 010 Kest and England matches, which was played at Town Mailing, he bowled three of the best wickets in one • over,' and got 20 runs in one innings. This last act is recorded, because Redgate strictly is nut a batinsti of high standing, al though we have seen him make long hands occasionally. As a bowler, however, he has had pretensions of the first charact .r. His pace was extremely rapid, his delivery beautiful and unexceptionable as to fair ness, while its length was excellent, and its rise quick and very effect*ve. Indisposition during the last year or two has made some havoc in his physical powers; but in all other respects, save that of the psce, he bowled in some or the, matches last season as well as ever. It is feared that he has not at all times been the best triend to himself, and that the illness he has had was the result of various indiscretions. Sincerely is it hoped that he has entirely regained . his health; and it may be inferred that such a con sequence from curetulness has come to pass, seeing that be is at present at Cambridge as a practice bowler to the gentlemen of that University. His average as a bowler in 1844 was as follows:--He played ten matches, bowled 31 wickets, and made an average of three one tenth. In 1845 he played ten matches, had 14 innings, scored 8 in one innings, 16 in cue match, and 37 in all, giving an average of about 2. In the same number he bowled 32 wickets, had 18 caaght off him, and took in all 50 wickets, or an avenge of 5 per match. I le also bowled 7 wides."---Nottingiarn Journal. ARRIVAL OF M. BELLOT. M. Bellot, of the French marine, whose volunteer of cervices for any Arctic expedition was announced in oar journal a few days since, arrived from Paris on Saturday morning. Ile has hastened across to join the Prince Albert, at Aberdeen. M. Bdlot, Knight of the Legion of Honour, is a dis tinguished officer in the French service, and was wounded at Madagamar in 1845, in the combined attack of the French and English at Tamatave. The generous offer of his services on an arduous voyage to the Arctic seas, in a cause so sacred, will be duly appreciated by all classes of her Majesty's subjects, and tend, we trust, to cement that union between the nations of the globe which is so ardently sought to be established by the " world's fair." M. &Hot is, as it were, the representative of the French navy in the search for Franklin, for we have reason to believe that deep sympathy is felt by all offi cers of the navy of France, and indeed of all navies in the civilised world, in the fate of that brave and good man and his gallant associates. SHIP NEWS. NOTICE. Leghorn, April 30. Advices from Naples, of the 2611, state that the qua rantines lately established there bad all been taken off. GRAVESEND, MAY 11. —Wind S.W.. calm, fine. Arrived—Wigerhaen,.from the Mauritius ; Sorcnto, from Alexandria ; Eliza Keith, from Callao ; Minerva, from Barbadoes; Hugo, from Riga; Tar, from Valpa raiso; Ann, from Rouen; Alliance , from Guernsey; Spirit end Eske, from Stettin; Sprightly, from St. Michael's; Anne Dorolhe, from Denmark ; Ann, from Bombay ; Cicero. from Grenade; Ocean Wave, from the Maori tisis;• Lady Hilda, from Byrbice; Blanche, Eilen, Pan dora, Grecian, end El.z - :beth, from Jamaica ; from Stettin; Germania, from Rostock; Malcolm, from Dominica ,• Violet, from Marseilles ; 'rhoma3 'Hughes, feom Port Philip ; T a y, f rom Alexandria ; Cessar, from Tarragona; Claret, from Bordeaux; Pleiades, from Bar badoes; Hellespont, from the Cape of Good Hope; Con cordia, Ranger, and Giraffe, from Rotterdam ; l~u en and Lion, from Harlingen; Static Dordrecht, from Dordt; Thames, from Hamburgh ' • Menai, from Cklai s; Ci t y or Rotterdam, from Dunkirk. Sailed—Scindian, for St. Helena; Bangalore, for New Zealand; Comet, for Bordeaux; Caledonia and Elbe, for Hamburgh ; Ocean and Attwood, for Rot terdam ; Sir E. Banks, for Ostend ; Fleohe, for Ghent; Victoria, for New York; Gener a l Wil ts hi re, f or Brazil; City of London, for Dunkirk; William Joliffe, fur Havre; Albion, for Boulogne; Fame, for Calais; Antwerpen, for Antwerp; Batavier and Earl of Auck land, for Rotterdam; Lord John Russell, for Harlingen; Catherine, for Norway; Ocean Breeze, for Malta; Dal housie, for Calcutta; Jane. for Adelaide; Amy Robsart, f)r Newcastle; Mereutio, for Liverpool; Propoutis, for the Cape of Good Hope; Jylland, for Nykjobiug; Bonetta, for Bamburgh; Crusader, fur St. Thomas; Noriih Crehia, for Liverpool; Heurich, for Wolgast; La Societe, for Caen; People, for Cherbourg; Mischief, for Barbacioes. VESSELS SP3R WITH. Statira Morse, bound west., with EN pabsengera, March 21. Percival, of Newcastle, March 27, in lat. 49 N., long. 20 W. Richard Thornton, from London for B4tnvia, March 27, in lat. 2 N., long. 21 W. Wanderer, from Cardiff for Rio Janeiro, March 16, long. 22 W. Lady C. Guest, from London fur Bermuda, April 10, in lat. 33 N., long. 42 W. Ircin Dublin for Quebec, April 23. in lat. 47 N., long. 37 W. Ellen Forestal, from Limerick for New York, March 27, in 44 50 N., long. 22 W. Maude, for New Yi;rk. Muy 1, in lat. 51 N., tong. 13 W. ENGLISH SWINDLERS IN FARM. AN OLD TRICK REVIVED. The following story appears in the Gazette des Tri bunau.t: "Two well.nressed persons, having the appear ance ulEnglishmen,_ went yesterday to the fair which is being held on the Route de Versailles. They placed before them a tray containing a great numba of pieces like those of 20f.; and with a very strong English accent offered them 'for sale at one franc each. The public suspecting that the pieces were only a composition gilded, made few pur chases. Pr , sently a c.lb drove up, and two other Englishmen, also fashionably dressed, alighted. They went to within a short oistance of the other two, and one sell in bad French, ' Why, I declare it is Lord Harrison trying to win ills wager with Sir Bathurli.' ' What wager?' said the stge.lnd English man. ' What! don't you know that he has betted too/. sterling that he would otfdr 1,000 guineas at If. each to these s ill y Frenchmen , and that he would not ltriathhuoruisr.: said succeed in selling so' in two hours ; whereas Sir 13athurls h as betted that they will a ll b e ta k en i n l ess t h an a 'I am of th e same op i n i on as Sir Part.' said. H ow otthliner,se'crLdhintlnwg shook hands liitshhmllitanr.riso'nF2er 'Let my conversation was us bet.' much?' 10/.' ' Done.' then and, after som e persons hastened to the gold pieces as thei r r esources the two gentletre- e o f a little farther off, I:tiering amongst themselves, these and than an hour the whole of rsebseullt The two gentlemen who had . joined the other two ie the rapidly off. A few ininutee.aft • and retired a short distance. Their overheard by the persons standing by; aad bought as many of %resources permitted. Meanwhile tehecab repeated their conversation 000 guineas were w e. ere iu so le ld " . e ar B,s bth e ffected and otherall ei fondnsa i l . sa l e i drove then rapidly nes inhabitants o f Great h a ving also the appearance _of i nhab . Britain arrived, and inquired what haadndtaat taken place. On being told, they cried 'lt is they!' dine explained that they were detective officers of sa t ua li e e' English police, and that they bad been :eat over to w at ch eel tail!" notorious pickpockets o f L ondon. who have come to .exerei , e their industry in Fra nc „. ..,-, The statement of these ufficere spread rapidly amongst t h e purchasers of the gui neas be -Oa examination of the pretended pieces of . alZedt'ihattnrdigtehde jionytoofsg the ldr,esist. was discovered that they sere not worth 15c; each. The secret p olice of P aris, assisted by the English officers , have commenced a search after the clever cheats." hum S Friday the OCIETY OF .....ONDON: an nual meeting of this society was held at the Hanov e r-square Rooms ; the Marquis of Blandforci in the c h a ir . report stated that nine new associations had been _formed as Engl an d i n connexion with the society during the p ast year. The receipts exceeded those of the preceding year by over 261. The stun of 4855/. had been collected by t he Irish Society, Which, with the contributions from the auxiliaries, amounted to over 9,0131; and, deducting the expenditure, there vim A babuice of 1 , 5254 The repPli WU unanimously adopted: INTENDED DEPARTURE of ,the PRINCE ALBERT for the ARCTIC SEAS. This little vessel, which, skilfully handled by Captain Forsyth, performed so remarkable a voyage last year, although she failed in her mission, is again on the eve of sailing from Aberdeen, in the hope of now accom plishing it. Mr. Kennedy, an experienced officer of the Hudson's Bay Company, is in command of the expedi tion; and Mr. Leask, ice-master of the North Star, who piloted that vessel through Baffin's Bay and Barrow's Strait; is in command of the vessel. Embarked with them is John Hepburn. This brave man, who w as with Sir John Franklin, Richardson, and Back, when they l explored the shores o f th e P o l ar S ea , a nd whose nobe conduct under tryi ng c i rcums t ances of no ordinary na ture is imperish a bly wr i tten on t h e page ofhon ouredof hist o ry,his has volunteered his se t vic es t o go in sea rchar master. The cr ew o f the - vessel a large portion being those who sailed in her picked men—a last year. Lady Franklin, we believe, has go ne down to Aber deen,fitting out, where the vessel is li.nd is expected to remain some time in Scotland. It is almost superfluous to s ay that the course of the Prince Prince Albert will Regent ' s Inlet, b e directed to and that the main object of the voyage is to explore the western coat o f Bnotnia from Cape Bird, south, and th e eastern coast from BrenVold Bay. If the ice admits of it, the vessel wall probably go to Brentford Bay, whence the two boat parties will be dispatched; and th ere i s eve ry reasonable hope that the party destined f or t h e we stern s i de will find a water communication betw een Brentford Bey and Cape Bird. At all events, the dis tance across cannot he more than ten miles, and be the difficulties what they may, we doubt not Mr. Kennedy's energies and experience in travelling will succeed in overcoming them. Had the Government acceded to the request of Sir Robert Inglis to send a steam-vessel to bring us intelli gence from Captain Austin's squadron, the Prince Al bert would have gone straight to her work; but we have heard that she will now be directed first to endeavour to communicate with Griffiths's Island, in Barrow's Strait, where it is the known intention of Captain Austin's squadron to leave notices of their proceedings. Should they be of such a nature as to render it desir able for the Prince Albert to return to England to com municate the intelligence she gains, she will doubtless be AUthoriied to do so; but should this not be necessary, we fear we must make up our minds to remain in ipso ranee till the autumn of 1852, when the ships will pro bably return; for there appears to us to be but little hope of learning anything until then, unless, indeed, Captain Austin had the good luck (scarcely during that short season to be expected) to come up with the mis sing parties last year, in which case we may hope to have the squadron back in the ensuing autumn. It is not to he supposed that the whale ships will ven ture far to the westward, and in our opinion the only hope of learning anything will be by the return of the Ancient Mariner. The brave old man Sir John Ross may have gone to the westward with Captain Austin's ships, and will, in such case, be able to tell us of their whereabouts; but this is by no means to be relied upon. We heartily wish that the gentry of the land would support the undertaking, by coming more liberally for ward with their subscriptions. Many have done so, but the great burden of the expense is still borne by Lady Franklin, which ought not to be allowed. An account is opened at Drummond's, and we earnestly hope that our appeal may not be altogether in vain. It is a noble and honourable service, and ought to be supported by the noble and honourable of the land. We cannot omit to mention—though no tat liberty to give his name— that a commander in the navy, among other'offieers who have volunteered their services to Lady Franklin, ac companied his proposal to command the Prince Albert with an offer of .500/. towards the equipment of the expe dition. We record this fact as one honourable to all con cerned, though Lady Franklin's acceptance of the highly valuable services of Mr. Kennedy has, we understand, prevented her from accepting its obvious advantages. The Prince Albert is expected to sail for the polar regions on or about the 15th, and she will not this time go out without the organ, which the illustrious Priuce whose name she bears has kindly ordered to be put on board " to contribute to the amusement of the men" iu the dreary depths of winter. THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY.- EVENING, T,RIAL OF A LOCOMOTIVE ON THE CHESHIRE JUNCTION RAILWAY. The trial of the tractive powers of the D ru id eng i ne , c o nc erned in the fatal , collision in the Sutton tunnel, which was .undertaken to satisfy Captain Laffan, the Government inspector, and the jury who are investigat ing the case, took place on Saturday morning at half past eight o'clock. Tne engine was in good working condition, having been worked out at Chester on Thurs day night for Captain Laffan's inspection ; s h e too k on a train of eighteen carriages at Chester, consisting of two first.class, six covered secon d s an d t h irds, and ten open stand -ups—the number sworn to by Mr. Crutchley, the station-master at Chester, and others, as being that dispatched in the train that blocked the road through the tunnel. The stand-ups were capacious vehicles from the North Staffordshire lines, capable of holding an im mense number of persons, sixty at least, and therefore gave reason for believing that one of the witnesses had been misled when he said there were twenty-five carriages in the train. The weight put in to represent passengers consisteu of old chairs and rails, distributed over the whole, and making, as was expected, with the weight of the engine, tender, and carriages, 152 tons. The engine was assisted to Frodstiani, and there awaited the ar rival of Captain Laffan, who was punctual to his ap pointed hour. The coroner and six of the jury were in attendance, with Mr. B rugge , w h o manages the locomo tive department; Mr. Alleson, locomotive superin tendent; Mr. Norris, of the London and North-Western Company, and others. Captain Laffan made an experi mental trip through the tunnel, and returned, and then the train was attached. The engine drew her load very slowly, indeed, at starting, apparently scarcely able to move it; but she soon got over that, and attained a con siderable speed, reaching the mouth of the tunnel, about a mile and thretequarters, in ten minutes thirty seconds. She maintained her speed pretty evenly through the tunnel, and it was evident that she only decreased it when her wheels slipped, which they did some little, as was marked by a peculiar beat. The tunnel was perfectly clear, and the end might be distinctly seen, like a section of a large circle, when the train was seen a quarter of a mile from the mouth at the Frodsham end. It was, however, wet, considerable quantities of water falling in large drops on the persons of the passengers. With the exception of the tattering named, the engine went through well, and reached the other end, a distance of a mile and a quar ter. in 3 minutes 55 secunds. She then seentdown the incline towards Moon, two miles off, at which station she finally drew up, 5 minutes 35 seconds after leaving the tunnel, travelling the whole five miles in 20 minutes, with that load on, at the rate of fifteen wiles per hour. We should add that from the tunnel to Moon there was a strong wind blowing against the carriages at an angle of 45 degrees, or at the rate of fifteen miles per hour. Everybody seemed satisfied with the performance, and 1 Captain Lisa said the engine had done her work well; but in the evening, at the close of the inquest, he stated it would be requisite to have a second trial, as, on going back to Chester to ascertain for himself the actual weight in the trains, irrespective of the engine and car riages, he found it was 20 tons less than he had expected. He then gave the basis of his calculation for weight, which be averred Mr. Bragge gave in his evidence. He took 10 stand-ups at 65 passengers each—Mr. Bragge having said from 60 to 70—and that gave a total of 650 persons; the third class, it was in evidence, were much crowded, and he took them at 40 persons each, there were six of them, which gave 240 persons; then the first class held 18 persons each, 36 tor the two; that gave a grand total of 936 persons. He had taken it for granted that they would be grown-up people, and as 12 stone each was th e we i g ht t a k en by Mr. Bragge him self, he had calculated on that, and the number of tone, 860 persons at that weight would be required to be on the train. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, May 12. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the Wool sack at Five o'clock. CRIMINAL LAW AMENDMENT BILL. Lord CAMPBELL said, in reference to the two Bills relating to the amendment of the criminal law which stood for committal that day, he had received a COtaIIILF. nication from Lord Denman, statiog that he approved of the principle of those Bills, and that he should wish to suggest some . amendments in them; now as the suggestions of his Noble and Learned Friend could not but,be most valuable, and he was happy to.find that his Noble and Learned Friend still took an interest in the subject, he would move the postponement of the Committee on those Bills, in order to afford him an op portunity of receiving the very valuable suggestions of his Noble and Learned Friend.—Agreed to. EXCHEQUER-BILLS BILL. This Bill was read a third time. and passed. INDEMNITY BILL. This Bill was read a third time and passed. PETITIONS. The Bishop of WINCHESTER presented several pe titiens against Papal aggression. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented several petitions against Papal aggression. Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from a parish in Perthshire to the same purport. The Earl of ENNISKILLEN presented several peti tions from places in Ireland to a similar purport. The Duke of ARGYLE presented several petitions from places in Scotland to a similar purport. The Earl of HARROWBY presented several peti tions praying for a repeal of the Sale of Beer Act; also several petitions in favour of eopybold enfranchisement. FOREIGN FLOUR. The Earl of GLENGALL presented a petition of which he had given notice from the grand jury of Tip perary in favour of protection to home-made flour. The Noble Earl said this was a most serious question. There was as large an amount of capital invested in flour-mills as there was in cotton-mills, and in Ireland the flour establishments were as large as the cotton es tablishments is England, and now the French had erected mills and undersold them in the market in the finer specimens of flour. Tee Irish mill-owners had pur chased up all tbe corn in Ireland. and had driven a most profitable trade in - it, and now their profits would be sensibly diminished by the importation of French flour, and the carriage of corn and flour would be di mielshed. He bad frequently seen in the town with which he was connected 500 or 600 carts employed in carrying corn to these mills, and bringing th e flour away. Th e consequence of free trade had been that these milts had been ruined, and that the people had been compelled to live upon that nasty filth called Indian meal, which was positively poisonous. The people could not work upon it. In all the milling districts the workhouses were crowded, and they had been compelled to take auxiliary workhouses, and those auxiliary workhouses had formerly been stores for the millers for Irish corn. This was a positive fact.' It reacted on this country, producing a deluge of Irish paupers, who were sent over by the Irish unions at half. a-crown a head; and if they continued the free-trade system they would have all the Irish paupers sent over to England. Now for the facts. Ia 1849 there had been imported into England of foreign flour 3,349.899 cwt.; in 1850, 3,890 440 cwt.; whereas in 1847 there had been imported only 1,339,000 cwt. of flour. He then proceeded to show that a large bonus was realized by importing foreign grain in the shape of flour, instead of in its raw material, owing to its being rendered capable of stowage in a smaller compass by that process. He con tended that there was as large an amount of capital invested in flour mills as there was in cotton mills; that in Ireland the flour mills were as costly as the cotton mills of England ; and that it was a lamentable circumstance that the French millers, who lived at no cost on board of the vessels with which they imported the best flour into Ireland, should undersell the Irish and the British miller in their own mar kets. He concluded by eapressing his conviction that free trade would be destructive of all the beat interests of the country, and that under itt fatal dominion industry would never reap the advantages vhich were its due, and skill and energy would be of no use. Earl GRANVILLE observed that it was always a dis agreeable task to make a reply to a statement of distress, when, in admitting the exigence of that distress to a certain extent, you had to deprecatethe remedy which was proposed for its relief. He did not feel himself bound on the present occasion either to reply to tie objections which the Noble Earl had urged against the system of free trade generally, or to enter into a discussion on the state of Ireland, into which the Noble Earl had entered ss largely, especcially when the accounts which he had received from various quarters dis proved, rathe r than proved, the accuracy of the Noble Earl's information. H e believed that the ;distress suffered by the millowners of Ireland, and to elaborately detailed by the Noble Earl. existed to a co.piderable extent ; but he could not agree with th e Nol)le led that it arose from increased competition with the French, millowners, or with his sug gestion that protection to hone -made flour would be the best remedy for it. He also beliered that distress was sustained by the millowners of Eilglaea, They were undergoing at hich often befell the manufac turers of the country. Amidthe improvements which had recently been made in the co Those who had a larger amount machi nery, it was found that those millowners who had a limited capital, and resided at a di4ance from the best markets, were gradually displaced b of capital, and who had the benefit of the best markets. It could not be dis a dvantageou s io the millowners to have the of the peopl e; an d, there raw material of their trade cheep; for its cheap ness l ed to greater consumption on the pa l fore, they must d er i ve advantage, as well as the hulk o f t h e community, from h a ving a Isurger introduction of grain than formerly into the markets of tits country, With regard to the competition of the Frenchmillowners, he had recently seen a French gentleman, well known to many of their Lord ships, who had recently held ligho i rcein .ao, and that Iran" genYl e gentleman (we think his Lordshi , had itifOrmed Min that there v as no branch of industry in France in which so much protttss had been made in the last 20 years as that with which tl millowncrs were connected, and that, nevertheless, the miliewners were at that moment complaining loudly of tbe in!Pcient remuneration which they for th received in return it labour an d th e i r cap i tal. It was clear. from the statenient nade to him by M. Delessert, that some of the minor millownere of France must have given way in the competition wiicb they b a d recently under g with the larger capitilistt, and yet he did not expect that any of their Lordships weld be prepared to say that it would have been a wise messurf on the part of the French Government to have bolstered tp the weaker portion of this trade by aid furnished from theresources of the state. An other observation which had Nen from the Noble Earl was that the French farmer was &living great profit from im porting corn to England. * - 1* he (Earl Granville) had every reason to believe that thesontrary was the fact. The same complaints which were ntlde in - England of the dis tressedcondition of the English farmer were made in France respecting the distressed condltisl of the French farmer. He likewise believed that the great distress alleged to be suf fered by the British millowners Vas disproved by the success of the mill recently erected at I ttersea, and by the mime s 1 rous new mill s now i n course , s construction in different parts of the country. The Noble: Earl had suggested that flour should be immediately p'hfected by a duty, which would enable the miller to eetlithaue his operations. He (Lord Granville) was not dispeled to underrate the very dangerous commercial, political, anisocial consequences which he believed would result if the Lesialature determined to re vert to the system of protective import duties upon grain ; but he must say he thought such a 'measure would be infinitely more defensible than to afford pr4ction to the millers be cause a portion of that body wertinvolved in some distress in consequence of the altered claimatances of their re spective lecalities. The Noble Earthed said that this ques tion would be brought forward again and he could only say that, if a definite . proposition were submitted to the House, his Noble Friends behind him would'be quite ready to dis cuss it. _. eti 11!, The Earl of MALMESBURY sa id 'e had taken some pains about a fortnight ago to ascertain' this . real state of the agri cultural body in France, and he hail been informed that during the year 1850 the amount ofaigricultural produce— wheat, wheaten flour, and barley—.exported from France to this country was equal in value (as :we understood) to some 2,000,000/. beyond the ordinary exports. It was clear, then, that France could not only feed her own people, but had a surplus of food to spare; and it could not, therefore, be maintained that the agricultural body. hi France were in a similar condition to the agriculturists of this country. If the French exported at a loss, was it conceivable that their ex ports would have increased in three years from 216,000 quarters to 595,000 quar t ers ? Noble Lords opposite had publicly lamented the distress of the 'agricultural interest; the Noble Earl (Granville; had aoknowledged that distress existed among the millers; but yet these Noble Lords had not made the slightest attempt to relieve that distress. The Earl of HARDWICKE considered it a striking fact that there was not one interest which came before either House of Parliament that was not in a depressed condition. The distress of the agricultural interest had been acknow ledged in the Speech from the Throne; and now the millers, freetraders themselves, had turned round and were calling upon Parliament for protection.... It was said that these petitioners were millers who were in a small way at business. but very recently a miller of Wakefield, who fed 200,000 people from his mill, had written to Mr. Cobden, as his re presentative, begging him to change his views on the sub ject of free trade. What, too, was the condition of the ship- A USEFUL DOG.—A well-dre-sed young woman, Ping interest, and what was th e c h aracter o f t h e d a ily and on Saturday, entered a res t aurant not far from the terminus weekly reports of trade from Manchester ?He might remind of the Orleans Railway, and told the waiter to bring her in t heir Lordships that Ireland was no longer a floutishing ex all haste a basin of soup, as s h e was a b out to take her di.. porting country, as it was previously to 1845, but that it was parture by the next train. This was immediately done; now a large importi ng country. and after having taken it, a n d p a id t h e wa i ter, she was ' The Marquis of CLANRICARDE o b ser ved, that if ~ Noble hurrying away, saying that she should certainly be late, Lords opposite thought proper to bring the state of I so la t e ; d when she perceived her passage ba rre d b y a large dog under discussion, he thought his Noble Friends would bea le which refused to let her pass. She attempted by caresses to show that the various interests of that country were .nos to put it aside, but the animal held firm, and opposed her in th e distressed condition that had been represented. The way. " I shall certainly be late!" cried s h e . " Do take whole question of protection and free trade was raise d bybe the away that horrible dog!' The waiter and th e master cried suggest i on of the Noble Earl, that an import duty not enter. sh ould out, " Vidocq, Vidocq I give way sir," but th e d og never i mpose d upon flour, and into that subject he wou ld referred tO stirred. . One of the waiters here whispered so met hi ng to H e m i g h t say, however, as the Noble Earl ha d _ t was un the master, who, coming up to the young woman, said "If the number of p aupers i n I re l an d, t h a t a l th oughi the west of -my dog prevents you leaving the premises, the reaso n mu s t fortunately t oo t rue t h at t h e wor kh ouses iis Noble Earl be that you have some of the property belonging to the Ireland were extremely full, he would ask t he, ag wo.. as of house about yen. You had better give it up a': once, and go what would be the condition of the ratepayer t s i , av _ , it having food at your way." The person thus addressed at first affected great the paupers in those unions, if,. instead of obtained, protec indignation at being so addressed, but at last drew out a silver the reasonable price at which it was n ow the price of food spoon, which she handed to the (saner of the restaurant. tive duties were imposed which rendered confidently as to the The dog then allowed her to pass, and she was hurryigg off high ?— ( Hear, hear.) He could speak ' when she was seised by her mantelet, and forced to atop. Thi s opinion of th e P oor -l aw guardians, and he had not met time it was a p o li ce a g en t, who had been on the look- out f or with a s i ng l e guard i an i n Irela nd ~ who wa s not so tar an ad several persons smpected of being concerned iu a robbe r y, an d vacate o f f ree tra d e as to say, I f we tied not at this time who, who, it was t h oug h t , m i g h t attempt t o ge t o ff b y t h e ra il way , ch eap f ood, i t would be utterlyim possible for us to support n She was arre s t e d, an d o n examination her ma n tel e t was our paupe rs ." H e b e li eve d that ersons had suffered so p found to be furnished with immense pockets for receiving pil- much from the remova l of protect iv e duties as theinillers in fered good s . I t i s sa id t h at t hi s i s not t h e fi rst time t h at the the sout h an d west of I re l an d, bu t the question raised by of great importance; and dog, belonging to the restaurateur, has shown himself a faith- the Noble Earl (Glengall)wa s on e Irish m illers could nos con unfortunately the case of the . ful guardian ot'his master's property. Galignani's Messenger. andwithout reference to sidered in an isolated point of view, THE ROTATION OF Ting E kRTH• —The Rev . Mr • • , . • • .his other interests et the country. idongieuir made a partially successful attempt in own After a few words in re ply from the Earl of GLENGALL, church on Tuesday, but at a public experiment on Wednes- The Duke of ARGYL observed, that there was an im to in day, t he confusion of the assembled savans, his machine mense pressure upon Glasgow, and other large towns ' *ndicated t ! hat the earth was turning the wrong way. The Scotland, in consequence of the influx of Irish paupers. fault, of course, lay with the construction of his apparatus,' The par oc hial officers were frequently obliged to give,them omrntrbee currents of air in the loom. Further attempts were half-a-c rown a-piece to sen i them hack to Ireland—( A laugh) been aconducted , i, , , . 1 th An experiment at Spring-garden has and he hoped that no more half-crown paupers would be great s care. A 5,4 b. ball has been ens- sent over from Ireland. . . pended by a fine bras. wire 28 feet long, and the joint or The Earl of LUCAN was sure his Noble Friend (the_ Earl pivot at the top is an accurately prepared all and socket of Glengall) had never intended to say that it was the prac one whichof , course moves with e l 1• in all direc t lice to send over paupers from Ireland.—(Laughter.) He tiens. The ball, which has qua . si lty a draw point proecting from it had, during the last ten years, resided in that country for a below, was made to traverse a i c ircular table o f six feet dia- considerable part of every year, and at no former period was meter, and it invariable t Much difficulty was experieenteddi in the proper direction. there anything at all equal to the amount of distress at pro gnitttintghitheball to swing sent existing there. At no period was t h e cultivation of in a mathematically accurate plan n e ob stac le having land in Ireland so totally neglected as at this moment, es. been overcome, the revolution of the table , f and of course o 1 peciall he Mayo and Galway, and he therefore thought it the world, under the pendulum, Flusher expeamuto ire w be jua . e. became quite apparent. wgtS, if _might use the expreseieu without effeuce, telembly 0 Akrcleen liernkr. Mr. Monk, the barrister, who appeared for the com pany, said he thought 12 scone an immoderate estimate. Captain Latfin said there might be 8 scone people in the train, and they would go against the people of 16 stone. The train was crowded, and he thought a lower average could not be taken. The weight of 936 passen gers, et 12 stone each, would be 70 tons, but he found only 48 in the carriages, a difference of 22 tons. - Mr. Brown. solicitor, said that 10 stone, and not 12, was the weight named as an average. Mr. Monk said he certainly should have spoken against such an average as 12 stone at the time if he had heard it named. The Foreman of the jury, Dr. Wilson, conceived that 11 stone was nearer an av erage . There was some further conversation, all turning upon the point of how the weight could be ascertained; one person suggested that the area of each carriage might be taken, and the number of persons who could stand on it, and their weight. Another suggestion was that a car riage should be filled and weighed, empty and full, and that seemed to receive the sanction of the parties inte rested. Captain Laffan showed how he had ascertained the weight of dead metal in the train, still going on Mr. Bragge s &ores, and remsrked that Mr. Norris had ar rived, by a separate calculation, at within half a ton of the same weight as himself. The jury broke up with the understanding that the engine was to be tested on Monday (this morning), with the full calculated weight. It is but justice to Mr. Brugge to say that his calcu lation of weight did not accord with Captain Latrines. THE ESTATE STEALING MORTGAGE SYSTEM. Attention is directed to the estate stealing mortgage system, practised by persons of apparent respectability pretending to assist the owners of estates with advances. In builoing transactions the cases have been of common occurrence, ois account of t',e high rate of interest, large margin of value, and opportunities for disputing every advance required as the works proceed. In many other cases; examination of titles and sur veys of property, are charged for without the slighteit intention of making advances, and abstracts or other im portant docuwents detained until extortionate charges are paid. The most effectual remedy against such frauds will be a register of cases, and the names of parties engaged in concocting them,aud mortgagors should become members of protection societies to ascertain who may be safely trusted in such important negotiations. Respectable so licitors and honourable agents will also derive advantage by being distinguished from the disreputable. The want of public attention to this description of fraud has been the cause of depriving thousauds of widows and orphans of property ample fur their support if it had been fairly protected. The abuses under the foreclosing system in the Court of Chancery, facilitate. the frauds in many cases, instead of protecting mortgagors ey public sales in the way cal culated to obtain the best tliees, or granting reasonable time for redemption, according to circumstances. The estate stealing - mortgage system is in principle similar to bill stealing, but carried on b y a more wealthy class of practitioners. UNIVERSITY INTELLIGENCE. OXFORD, MAY 10.— MERTON COLLEGE.—A n election of three Postmasters will take place on Friday, June 20. Candidates are desired to call on the Warden on Monday, June 16, with testimonials of gocd condUct and certificates of baptism. In' the election to one Poet mastership, a preference will be given to attainments in .mathematics. No candidate will be admitted tinder 17 or above 19 years of age. QUEEN'S COLLEGE.—There will bo an election of an Exhibitioner on the Michel FoundAtion at Queen's Col lege, on Thursday, the 19th of June next. Candidates must be natives of the province, of Canterbury, who have attained the full age of 15, and nut exceeded the age of 20 years; and, if member' of the University, must not have been matriculated more than 12 calendar months. At the same time there will be an election of two Exhibitioners on the foundation of Sir Francis Bridgman. Candidates to be natives of Lancashire, Cheshire, or Witte. Certificates of baptisierffid the usual testimonials of good conduct from their school or college are to be presented by the candidates to the Provost on Saturday, the 14th of June. The examina tion will commence on Montly, the 16th, at 10 P.M. BEASENOSE COLLEGE. -- Messrs. Turner, Bethel], Keating, and Kenyon, of Lincoln's Inn, have given it as their opinion, in reply to the " case" submitted to them by the pricipal and scholars of Brasenose College, " that' the Commission of the 31st of August. 1850, is :not, as respects Brasenose College, constitutional or legal, and that it is not such as the college or its members are bound to obey; and that the Commission cannot be sup ported by any prerogative or other right in the Crown." UNIVERSITY BOAT Beene—The University host races will - commence on Monday, the 19.6 inst., and be Continued on the following dares:—Tuesday. the 20th; Thursday, the 22d; Saturday, the 24th; Monday, the 26th; Tuesday, the 27th; Thursday, the 29th ; • and Friday, the 30th. would have been well sifted, and Members been enabled to make those inquiries and obtain that information which they (teemed necessary. The Bill not only affected the temporalities of religion, but the most vital and es sential parts of religion itself, and if it passed, it would be impossible for a Roman Catholic bishop to be or dained consistently with the law of th e land, and unless that ceremony took place, he could not be considered as one of the spiritual heads of the Church. He, therefore, called on the Speaker and the House, in com pliance with the standing order, to discharge the Bill. Sir G. GREY said he would not enter into the ex pediency of introducing the Bill in Committee, because that was not the real question before the House, but he might observe that the advantages mentioned by the lion. Gentleman were perfectly imaginary. His Right Hon. Friend (Lord J. Russell) would not have been compelled to detail more minutely the provisions of the Bill in Committee than when he first introduced the Bill to the House.—(Hear, hear.) The Honour able Gentleman had stated that the standing order was made in 1773 in consequence of a Bill intro duced into the Rouse, and ultimately objected to by the bishops. Now it 9J happened that the standing order was made in April, 1772, some mouths previous to that Bill being brought forwurd. Titers was also a similar standing order at the same time relative to Bids effswing trade, and these two tee nor new orders, but merely the separation of one teeter which was made in 1703, into two. The standing ordsr, tnere fore, had certainly existed long before the Bill mentioned by the lion. Gentleman was introduced. The teal question was, whether the present Bill fell within the meaning of the standing order. If the lion. Gentleman had succeeded in showing that it did, he was willing to admit that rio objection could be taken to the course which the Hon. Gentleman had pursued. But how did he purpose to shiny this? First, by quoting a letter written to the Rig ht Honourable Baronet the Member for Ripon before the Bill was introduced, which relied mainly for its line of argument upon the word " acts" to be done by any bishop, which word, in fact, was not to be found in the Bill as it stood at present. The same was the case with the Hon. Gentleman's Own argu ment, which rested mainly on the use of the word "acts," weich was omitted from the Bill. The Hen. Gentlemen said, moreover, that, if this Bill passed the Archeishop of Dublin would be uitable to exercise the spiritual duties which he now exercised. If such were the case he would remind the Hon. Gentleman and the House that such had been the case ever since 1829, be. cause that title had been prohibited by law ever shice that time. Again. he would remind the Hon. Gentle. man that in 1831 a Bill was passed to legalise marriages among Rowan Catholics. New marrtege was a solemn sacrament of religion among Roman Catholics, and the Bill was introduced into the House without the prelimi nary form. Mr. ROEBUCK was of opinion that this was a question affecting religion, and as such came under the meaning of the standing older. At the present moment Roman Catholic priests were not prohibited from taking titles of sees which were not already appropriated by bishops of the Established Church, and a person bear ing the title of Bishop of Westminster could receive be quests to be applied to the benefit of his own religion. lf, however, it passed he would not be able to do so, and for that season he con sidered this was a Bill which interfered with religion, and the Noble Lord himself had acknowledged that by proposing to extract certain clauses from the Bill, and had thus put himself out of court. The SPEAKER said, having been appealed to by two Honourable Members to state what his opinion upon this matter was, perhaps the House would allow him to do so as shortly as he could. There was uo authority founded upon any decision of the House for determining what was meant by the phrase " Bills relating to religion," but having looked closely into the reports of Bills which had passed the House which bore upon matters of religion he thought it was not necessary to pass a Bill through a Committee of the whole House, unless the BHA related to the spirituelities of religion. True, the Church Temporalities Act went through Com mittee, as had been stated by au Hon. Member, but to show that it was not because it related to religion that it was carried into Committee, he might mention that thole was no allusion made to the standing order now uuder discussion, and the Bill passed through just as though it had been a money Bill. Then come the Bill for carrying into effsct the report of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners. That was riot introduced in a Commit tee of the whole House, because it was supposed to re late to temporai and not spiritual matters, and for pre cisely the same reason the Irish Marriage Act did not go through a preliminary Committee. Under all those circumstance, he was of opinion that the Bill now before the House was not one which it was neces sary to introduce into Committee of the whole House. —(Hear, hear.) He was consulted upon this sub ject in the first instance without, of course, being made acquainted with the whole of its provisions, and he gave the same opinion then; and having since carefully considered the Bill, he saw no reason whatever to change that opinion. Mr. MILNER, GIBSON said it appeared to him that the opinion of the Speaker went upon the assumption that this Bill interfered with religion no further than did those Bills which the Right Hon. Gentleman had re ferred to; but that assumption was decidedly erroneous. He had considerable doubts whether, looking at the pro visions of the Bill, it was not a measure altering the laws concerning religion, and imposing pains and penalties on a portion of the people. Though he bowed with deferecce to the opinion of the Speaker, yet until they had submitted to him a proper case for his cons deration, be thought they ought nut to abide by the Opinion which he had just given to the House.— (Hear.) He would suggest That they should take the same course which was aeopted with the lash Temparalitits Bill, and appoint a Select Committee to examine into prrci deets, and re port whether, according to the orders arid rules of the House, the Bill should have peso introduced in a Com mittee of the whole House.—(Hear.) Mr. GHAT I'AN said it was absurd to suppose that this was a measure which did not atisct the religion ui his fellow-countrymen. It was a mockery, an insult, and an attempt to play upon words for the Noble Lore at the head of the Government to make such an assertion. lied they not for the last hew menthe h eel , t amest entirely occupied in discussing reli gious subjects ? The ferment which the Bill had already given rise te, and was likely to increase, would make the Ministers regret to the last day of their lives that they had passed such a m"asure. They had neither the coureee, determination, or mind to get Ireland out of the ciffieulties in which their lose 'slice sue overbearing lauguage had placed her. It the Bill were passed, the House would not only be made the laughieg-steck of the three kingdoms, but of the world. Mr. REYNOLDS moved that the debate be now WI. .ourned, in urutr to afford time to inquire into prece, audacious on the part of any Noble Lord on the Ministerial bench to seek a sort of triumph in the present state of Ire land. The Noble Marquis (Clanricarde) had said he never heard any guardians in that country speak in favour of pro tection. He (the Earl of Lucan) was a member of four boards of guardians in Ireland, and three-fourths of the guardians, if not the whole of them, were Protectionists. He never heard the guardians congratulate themselves upon cheap food, but he had often heard them lament that wretched paupers sere driven to the workhouse in conse quence of agricultural labourers deserting their wives and children. After a few words in explanation from the Marquis of CLANRICARDE, the subject dropped. CHURCH BUILDINGS ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. On the order of the day being read for going into Com mittee on this Bill, Lord PORPMAN said he considered some of the provisions of the measure very objectionable. It would affect the rights of some 300,000 persons who now had free seats in churches, which had been erected by private subscriptions or by Cnurch Building Societies, by giving power to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners to let one. half of those sittings, in order to es tablish a fund for the payment of the ministers. He believed that some of the clauses would contravene the statutes of mortmain. The Bill provided that the right of patronage should be vested in those p irties who subscribed not less than 501. to the building of a church ; but why were persons who could not contribute such large sums to be deprived of a voice in the appointment of the ministers? He also objected to the clause which gave the right of nomination to any new church built in a-, extra-parr cbial place to the bishop, in stead of leaving it with the subscribers. He suggested, as the Bill was not a common-place one, but of high importance, well deserving the attention of the House, that it should be referred to a Select Committee. The Bishop of LONDON said, the Bill had been prepared with the view of providing additional ch.rch accornmo,la- Lion. The popular cry now was that the Church should find the means within herself of extending her borders, aid one of the most legitimate modes of doing so appeared to be from pew -rents. The Church Building Commissioners had found that in many cases where they had set apart a larger number of free seats for the poor than they had thought fit to avail themselves of it would be desirable, and it had been so represented to them, to let those seats at reduced rents. He had no objection to the Bill's going before a Select Committee. • Lord STANLEY did not doubt the goodness of the object for which the Bill had been proposed, nor was he disposed to say that in some cases the number of free , seats might not be curtailed ; but, in cases where persons had given large sums of money towards the building of a church, with the view of affording gratuitous accommodation to the poor, he thought it would be not only inexpedient in point of policy, but a breach of faith also, by ex post facto legislation to im pose a charge upon those seats. at the discretion of the Com missioners. He objected, therefore, to that ex post facto legislation. There was another point, also, which be thought deserving attention. It might be, under the Bill, in places where the parochial accommodation was amply sufficient, if s , ctarian feeling ran high, that the building of a church in the same neighbourhood might be authorised with the ♦iew of serving sectarian purposes alone. This was by no means an imaginary case, and he feared that it might not be a peculiar one. The Bishop of OXFORD observed, that it would not be the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, but the Church Building Commissioners, who would have the power of charging pew. rents. The Earl of CARLISLE said, the Bill was founded upon a report which had been made by a Commission a few years ago. The Commission, composed of gentlemen of different views, were unanimous in recommending it. It hat been circulated largely among the clergy, who were generally in favour of it, and the Government also approved of the Bill as a well-conceived measure for promoting church ex tention within the pale of the Church itself. He believed that very good and cogent reasons could be shown for the provision for raising pew-rents, but it might be a question whether some means for obtaining the consent of the parish beforehand would not be a useful addition to the Bill. That was a matter, however, which would, no doubt, engage the atteLtion of the Select Committee. The Bill was ordered to be referred to a Select Com mittee, and the House adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 12. The SPEAKER took Ihe Chair at Four o'clock. 4 The Lord:.' amend men t s t o th e Hartlepool Fventen's tem& and Harbour Dues Bill were considered and agreed to. SECOND READINGS. The following Bills were then read a second timc:— Btighton Extramural Corsetery; King's College flo*- phut (No. 2); and Christchurch (Southwark) Pariah Bills. PETITIONS. A great uturater of petitions were presented against he Pape! aggression. Mr. ORD presented a petition from Fife against the Prisons' (Scotland) Bill. Sir G. STRICKLAND presented a petition from Preston against the continuance of the Regium Donum. Colonel SIBTHORP presented a petition from Lin coln, complaiming of agricultural distress. Colonel SALWEY presented a petition from Welling ton preying for electoral reform. Mr. ROBERT PALMER. presented 'a petition from Berkshire against the Jew Bill. Mr. W. PATTEN presented a petition from the board of guardians at Preston praying for extended powers to raise loans for the relief of the poor. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Paddington, agaiust the proposed encroachment on Kensington gardens. Sir G. GREY presented a petition from Northumber land, praying for a modification of the taxes on carriages. NEW WRIT. Major BERESFORD moved for a new writ for the Isle of Wight in the place of Mr. Simeon. RAJA BROOKE. Mr. B. COCHRANE asked Mr. fl ume w h en h e pro posed to bring forward his motion relative to Raja Brooke? He supposed now that Sir James Brooke heel 'tome ro England, the Hen. Member wits afraid to bring it on.—(lTear, hear.) Mr. HUME said, so far from that being the case, he had teen waiting the arrival of the neje, and it Govern ment would only give him the day after to-morrow. the Hon. Gentlemen should see whether he was afraid to bring the motion en or net. MONEY -ORDER OFFICE. Mr. J. WILLI.AMS gave notice of his intention to put a question to the Secretary of the Trea , ury to-mere row on the subject of the money-order department of the General Post-office. PUSEYISM IN THE CHURCH. Sir B. HALL asked the Prime Minister what .strtps the archbishops and bishops of the Established Cirti,ce had taken in pursuauce of the letter addressed by the Secretary of State to the Archbishop of Canterbury, by command of her Majesty, for the purpose of suppressing certain practices in planes of wore hip belonging to the Established Church; and whether the Bishop of Londoe, had taken, or was about to take, any legal proce e di ngs against any of the cler g y w h o sanctioned what his Lord ship calls "histrionic performances," in the churches within his diocese. Lord J. RUSSELL said he was not in a position to state what steps bad been taken with respect to the matter alluded to by the lion. Baronet. and strongly deprecated the incoeverelence which would arise from eekieg such questions in the House. NEW RIDE IN KENSINGTON-GARDENS. Mr.H.UME intimated that he would bring the subject as to the proposed new ride in Kensington-gardens before the House to-morrow. EXTENt,ION OF THE FRANCHISE. Mr. T. BUNCOMBE gave notice of a motion for next eeseion with respect to the extension of the franchise. lence. Mr. HUME was quite ready to consent to the ad ,ournmeot of the debate. Mr. KEOGH contended that the Bill affected.the spi ritualizes of the Roman Catholic Church, and read the written opinion of Sir F. Kelly, Mr. Brodie, convey ancer, and Mr. Badaeley, stating that the Bill would ren der it illegal for any archbishop or bieoop of the Roman Catholic Church to exercise their official functions in this country, though they might be merely of a spiritual no tore. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL apprehended, that the first thing that would strike any individual when considering the history of the standing orders in question, was that the sense in which the word "religion" was used in that order was one concerning matters of taith and doctrine, and net mere matters of ecclesiastical management, superintendence, or jurisdiction. The question then was, whether this Bill did in any way affect faith or doctrine, or in any manner concern spiritualities of any description. The Roman Catho lic Archbishop of Dublin, indeed said, that if the Bill passed he should not be able to ordain a priest or administer the sacrament of confirmation. Was it intended, then, to be said that from the year 18e9 to the present moment there bad been no ordination and no sacrament of confirmation performed by any Roman Catholic archbishop or bishop in Ireland, except by the Bishop of Galway, whose see had been created since 1829, or by the Archbishop of Tuam, there being no Pro` estant archbishop of that title? If the argument of the Hon. and Learned Member for Mayo were right, such must have been the case, because the provisions of the present Bill were precisely similar to those contained in the Bill of 1829. He apprehended there was not a Member in the House who would tell him that a Boman Catholic bishop could, not ordain a priest unless he were a bishop of some particular diocese—or that Dr. Wiseman could not have exercised his spiritual functions as well when be was Bishop of Melipotamus as he could when Archbishop of Westminster. The real meaning of Dr. Murray's statement was this:—" There are certain temporal advantages to the person ordained by me as Archbishop of Dublin which he would not possess if he were ordained by me under any other title." But that was clearly out of the precincts of religion. It dealt with temporalities merely. Reference had been made to an opinion of Mr. Willes, but how did that opinion commence? The Learned Counsel said, "I am instructed that the Archbishop cannot ordain or do so and so unless it be under the title of Archbishop of Dublin ; and, if I am correctly instructed, then the Bill will have such and su an effect." Now, in the first place, if the Learned Con sel were truly instructed, then the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin and all the Catholic bishops of Ireland must have been under an interdict for the last 22 years. Wes such a statement made to the Leaned Counsel ? He (the Solicitor- General) would venture to say that nothing of the kind was ever hinted at; nor would any one very seriously contend that a Roman Catholic bishop's ; , spaitua t functions depended upon the title which he as. sinned. But it was dangerous to act upon the ()pinion of counsel without knowing the statement lid before him. lie would rather trust to the opinion given by the Right Hon. Gentleman ha the chair, who formellutissej,uclbgut ment not only from the standing orders of the from the clauses of the Bill which formed the subject matter to ,vhich those orders applied. He had ne doubt Mr. Speaker had arrived at a right conclusion on this. question. The Right Hon. Member for Manchester ( d speaking ad invidiain) said that when they were removing itshlabitliivtiheesntthheeyHwouersee went into a preliminary Committee, but , imposing disabilities they did not into Committee. But the Right II think it necessary to go perfectly aware of the reason on. Gentleman must be Committee oil the Catholic Reliefwhy the House went into for altering au oath. There was a Bill. That was a measure deserved the considerationwas of the House. Looking at the made, and when the word "reli gion" was us e d, he having by the word "reli • in tbe first place contended that would now ask _but was meant " faith and doctrine," he zit what f a i t h an d doctr i ne ? W as i t not perfectly clear th at it meant the faith and doctrine of the Es tablished Church ? The order meant that ties House should not tamper with the established religion, nor alter its doe-trines, without first having the sanction ofofa Committee the whole House. No lawyer, on reading this Bill, would say that it meant to effect a changein the doctrine or internal economy of the Roman Catholic religion ; and to say that the Bill would alter or affect the established religion would be absurd. The whole question was whether the Bill touched dpiritualities. Looking at the Bill in every point of view, he was of opinion that it did not affect religion, nor touch any spiritual function of the Roman Catholic Church. If he depended on precedents he might rensr to many ; for instance, the Church Temporalities Act, the Tithes Commu tation Act, the Vestries Bill, the Curates Bill; these and other BIIIBIIEI been palled .71tbout any preliminary refer- ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES BILL. On the motion for going into Committee on this Bill, Mr. MOORE rose to move that the standing order, which requires that Bills concerning religion should be first considered in a Committee of the whole House, be read, and that the order for the Committee on Eccle siastical Titles Assumption Bill be discharged. The reason of this motion was, be said, drawn from the standing order of the House. which declared that all Bills relating to religion or any alteration proposed iu the laws on this point should originate in a Committee of the whole House. Mr. May, a high authority in these matters, had said that this order bad always been construed as applying to religion, and not to the temporalities of religious bodies, and it was on this ground that the Roman Catholic Relief Bill had been considered first in a Committee of the whole House and afterwards the Church Temporalities 'Oland Bill had been brought in without that preliminary step. He was quite willing to admit, if the Bill were to be regarded only with reference to its first motive, or if the amend ments of the Government were to restore it to a mere temporal measure, that his objection would at once fall to the ground, but his objection was against the Bill as first introduced, and he thought it was not necessary for hith to argue before any lawyer or educated gentleman of that House that ordination and the administration of sacraments were not mere temporal incidents, but essentially spiritual. He quoted a letter from Archbishop Murray, in which thct Rev. Prelate stated that be could not perform his ecclesiastical functions except in his character of arch bishop, and then the Hon. Gentleman proceeded to ob serve that the letter containing that opinion produced such an effect upon the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, that, with a spirit of liberality which re called the incidents of the Noble Lord's early career, he consented to make a material alteration in the Bill. Now, assuming the opinion of Dr. Murray, and the admission of the Government that followed, to be correct, how could any one pretend to say that the Bill related only to tem poralities, and would in no way interfere with reli gion ? But it might be said that Dr. Murray wt. , no lawyer, and therefore his opinion could me he held to be conclusive. Well, in order to meet that objection, a case had been submitted to Mr. Willes, of the Inner Temple, one of the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the best means of amending the law on this. very subject, and he had given it as his opinion, which had since been confirmed by Sir Fitzroy Kelly and Mr. Bsddeley, that this Bill, if it passed into a law, would place the duty of Dr. Murray, as -an archbishop of his Church, in direct couflict with his duty as a subject of the Queen. It might, however, also be objected that the effect of the Bill was only constructive and not di rect; but though he was not lawyer enough to decide between the two he was sufficiently learned to perceive that the effect of the Bill upon the Catholic Church would be to prevent the exercise of religious functions, and hence the effect must not he constructive but direct.—(Hear, bear.) The standing ord er to which he referred was made in 1773, on the occasion of a Bill being introduced into the House of Commons for the relief of Protestant Dissenters. When that Bill went up to the House of Lords, several of the bishops objected to it on the gr oun d that it was i mproper ly entitled, and i t was consequently negatived. After the rejection of the Bill, this standin g order was passed, in order in future to guard against Bills being introduced into Parliament clandestinely, with a title altogether different from the real nature of the provisions they contained. And if ever there was a Bill which showed the wisdom o f this enactment, or to what it was intended to apply, it was the present one. He considered if the Bill had been brought forward in Committee its whole proisiow ence to a Committee of the whole Home; he, therefore, thought that if the House were to yield to the argument which had been urged on this occasion, it would completely stultify itself; and at the same time be acting in direct oppo sition to the whole current of precedents. Mr. GLADSTONE thought the present discussion would have one useful result, in showing that the precedents on this important questiou were in a state that was most unsa tisfactory. Therefore, alth oug h t h at m i g ht no t h e a salts cient reason for interferring with the progress of the Bill, yet he thought it was most d es i ra bl e t h at some ru l e should be laid down for their future guidance, in order that an uni formity of practice might p reva il i n a matter o f no incon::l derable importance. Th e S o li c i tor -G enera l h a d argued the question with great fairness. The two main questions, a, , s the Hon. and Learned G en tl eman h as ! s t a t e d were—fir st , whether the word " reli gion " i n th e stan di ng or der inclu d ee l id e , any religion except th e es t a bli s h e d re li g i on ? an d, if then, secondly, whether, th ere b e i ng th e Roman Citatho lic religion in this c oun t r y, i t cou ld b e sa id that its spiritualities were touched by thee Bill or not? It ap peared to him (M r . Gl a d stone ) t h at the Solicitor-Gene ral was perfectly right in saying that the proper mennin_g, u the standing ord er was , t h at i t regar d e d not re ligion 'n ' t general, but the e s t a bli s h e d re li g i on o f the countr y. If were so, what w as th e course wh i ch precedent po i nte d to for the House to follow? There was, he feared, no "n":uld or uniform p rece d ent. T he precedent of 1772 lead to th e i n f erence that Bills which tended to effe:rotil t securities of th e esta bli shed religion ought to ' pass preliminary Committees. It was true the Act of 171! fur ,„,, the relief o f the Roman Cet holie s was p asse d without , ""b' through any suc h Committee, but then there were carious precedents the w her way. There was the Act of 18) , 8 et off f the repeal of th e C orporation and Test Acts, the 1 " ; .. .A 1829, for the Emancipation of the Rumen Cetholicatre several other Bills, all of which were introaeice7 through the medium of a Committee. The Solici tor-General tor-General had said that the reason those Bills t h e y eo/lived to an intermediate Committee was, that they altered an eath. He (Mr. Gladstone) did not circumstance was alone sufficient to account for thetliphrj a to He was of opinion that the standing order was intended protect the established religion ; and that whenever P ment dealt with the securities which the established dealing li gion posse-serf, whether good or bad, the Bills so de . r e e: with them must pass through a preliminary CoreM 3 A til e at The Honourable and Learned Gentleman had also said e a the meaning of the standing order was that Pa rl4ll :eat should not tamper with the established religion; buet when measures were to be passed for strengthening th rities of that religion then it was not necessary for such ( li the sure to go through a preliminary Committee. ish Gladstone) believed that that argument contained the P e to a e c . ce. and gist of the whole matter, that that was the doctl ito , be exrracted from the whole heap of precedents before t r and that Bills which injuriously affected, weakene d ' a b ° t diminished the securities of the Eetablishea Church , to pass through a preliminary Committee; but that which purported to strengthen those securities did not ter quire to go thr oug h t h at preliminary stsge. Looking, ityhe ever, at the preamble of the present Bill, he confesserttest, thought that rule ought t o b e applied both ways.—(3bue hear.) This Bill was not like one for repealing a ta x ; was it was a measure which, while giving to one party, too taking away from another; while it tended to gee" ees the Church of England, it took from the Roman cath°,,„ that which they would otherwise enjoy. The question ht j one involved in considerable difficulties; and he thoug ii, or would be wise, whether with reference to the present 1 31 o f to the future course of legislation, to appoint a Coninlit te t i v e inquiry in order to fix upon some clear and authorifs the construction of this important standing order, so that l e d practice of the House, which had been hitherto confused !e s• unintelligible, might be made clear, practical, and intelligleepi t Mr. SADLEIR thought the very showing of Governr or in their speeches proved the Bill bad reference to the Pests blished Church. Indeed, he believed the Bill went fn't, As s than was ever contemplated by the restrictive clauses 0 1 "" Act of 1829. The gallery wa s th en c l eared for a division, but after 0 short iuterval the door was re-opened, and we found t ) , Lord J. RUSSELL, addressing the House. He ers, e o s, serving the re was no ground for further delay on the snut th e The instances o f th e C orporation and Test Acts and °he relief of Roman Catholic disabilities, quoted by the Hon. Memb er (M r. Gladetone), referred to suposed sec ties for the re li g i on of the country, and those p recedents not apply to the present case. H e did not b e l ieve a Select Committee could d o anything more than leave the questltea to the discretion of the House. Mr. BRIGHT' recollected that the Noble Lord had eti ;l3 i drawn clauses from the Bill, on the ground that they aff gc ` ' . the spiritualities of the Roman Catholic faith, and theefo r tee Bill came within the undoubted practice of the fle llse n ' ts The Noble Lord invited the House to inflict an injury ° n 8,000,000 or 10,000,000 inhabitants of the United liipg"„"li and to pass over certain rules which the Established Chi l T e had insisted on for its own security. The Roman Catholic population stood before the House in precisely the same rele; tion as the memb ers of the Established Church, and t h Noble Lord ought t o h ave b een more careful, when tee'es! away their right s , t o proceed with the utmost caution t h if lie were enga ge d on a matter which would affect the poise' of of the dominant church. It would be only fair, in order to satisfy the R oman C atholics to refer the questionto a 'ele ct t Committee, whe n th ey would see the house proceed with as much care and d e li cacy i n their case as in that of the lA tahlished Church. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the motion of adjournment .. 53 Against it .. 179 Majority for going on with the debate---12 6 On returning to the gallery, Mr. LAWLESS was speaking. He did not believe the majority represented the sense of the House, but that the!, represented the infl uence o f the Government. He wou ld move that the House be adjourned.—(oh 1 oh!) Mr. GRATTAN, as a Protestant Member, wished to Se' cond the motion, and appealed to the Noble Lord not to prel. the question as a inetter of good feeling. Lon! J. RUSSELL said that he had seen in the majority many lion. Members who had in general been opposed to his Government, and that be had never seen a more attentive House than had been present dining this debate. That the House should now be celled on to adjourn made him suspect Hon. Gentlemen had faltered it the resolution which it was maid they had come to—not to make any factious opposition to fbe Bill—a resolution which he had very much admired. (Hear, and laughter.) They had heard the opinion te the Speaker and or several Hon. Members well acquainted with the forme of the House, and it there were any Irish Members who thought they had a better opinion on points of order than the Speaker and these Hon. Members, perhaps it would be as well (or the House t o h ear i t. Mr. REYNOLDS di sc l a i me d any intention of offer i ng a feclions opposition, but was not aware that any such rest)• lution as the Noble Lord mentioned had been agreed upon. Ile was afraid the Irish Members would disappoint the Noels Lord in hi s ant i c i pat i ons of their polio cal politeness. W"ul '.he Nobl e L or d consent to nominate a Select Committee, an d he ( Mr. Reynolds) would not object to the debate going eu pars passe ? Mr. KEOGH thought the Noble Lord had admitted it might be desirable to examine into precedents, which w ee in effect all ow i ng th e propr i ety of a Committee. If he granted the Committee, they would not opp ose his proceed . o Mg with the Bill. The Speaker s a id th e reason why tb Order of the H ous e did not apply was, that the Bill d id n ot affect the spiritualities of the Roman Catholic Church. Th e Solicitor-General argued that the order did not apPle ,becaues it was intended to ref e r t o t h e P rotestant religion exclus i ve li• Surely such a diff e re nce of opLion was good ground for Committee. Sir G. GREY denied that hi s N o bl e F r i end had expressedany opinion iu favou r o f a C ommittee. He had argued tha, the queeticn was of a different nature from those which ha ° been referred to. Mr. ANSTEY was of opinion that the course the Rel tle fi Catholic Members w e r e p ursu i ng was not calculated to s well the minority opposed to the Bill. He desired to separ ate himself from them, because their object was evidently t°, throw obstructi o n s i n t h e way of the House, and prevent le from procee,ling with the Bill. Mr. MOORE expressed his surprise that the Hon. lkfe re ' ber, who had hitherto been the very personification of obstruc tion—who had spent one whole session in obstructing every' thing—his own Bill among the rest—(A l aug h) — s hould no lecture others for following his example. Every Member unconnected with the Government who had spoken in the course of the debate admitted tee desirableness of appointing a Committee. If the Noble Lord would consent to the ale: ;ointment of a Cenune tee, the motion for adjournmen t would be at once withdrawn. The House divided, when there appeared For the adjournment ... 36 Against L. ... 145 Majority 109 The motion was then renewed for the Speaker leaving the chair fer going into leiminietee on the Bill, upon which Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL rose to explain to the House his reasons for opposing it, es he had not an opportunity of doing so on the second reading. Ha considered that the act of the Pope was not such as to have easel for legislation on the pert of either House of Parliament. Up to last autumn the Roman Catholics of England were governed by a body of vicars apostolic, and those vicars apostolic were the nominees of the Pope. The Bill before the House had been met by a great display of opinion in the country. That feeling spread through the length and breadth of the land, mid the present attempt at legislation was the result of a certain undefined wish on the part of the people, that Parlhanent should do something, lie k could not, as some Hon. G ent l emen contended, look at that ; movement as one emanating from the Church of England. The excitement out of doors was merely proof of an anxiety of feeling in the country that this House should interfere in religious matters. Ile thought, however, that legisla tion on this subject was altogether unnecessary. If the Ch e ugh e s)! England were attacked, let it defend itself. If' to interfere, presumed to claim temporal or civil tathhuethtoinr:ipeiyooyer the Sovereign of these realms, then would be taken on its ill:rite refuse to aseist If Mr. and he would join in ßoman Catholic would lie should oppose the progress of the Bill, every division that could be t a t u ld tur z e lo s c ia lo g y e a s: URQULIAR I' said, that when he last addressed the douse . he was virtually precluded from entering into any question but that of the conduct of the Government. Since _t • t period the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had opened up a branch of the question which appeared to of great importance, and upon which he wished to ad dressa few considerations to the House. The Noble Lord state- that the motive and object of the Papal Government in the st ep i t h ad lately taken had been not a religious but a Political one o that the Government of the Pope, operated upon by the Government of certain other European countries who were alarmed at the greet influence which England exercised on the Continent in favour of Liberalism and Con stitutional government, had been induced to take the step in question for the purpese of setting England in a flame, that, in short, the measure had a diplomatic origin. Nor was the Noble Lord alone in this statement. Statements in a similar strain (which he quoted) had been made by Lord Clarenden, by the Hon. Member tor the University of Ox ford, by the Noble Lord the Member for Bath, and others- The Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Department bad said the, it was impossible for us to meet the aggression by diplomatic arrangement, because after the Pope had taken so decided a course we should only expose ourselves by 5 0 doing to humiliation and defeat. The Master of the Rolls, however, had used a very different argument. He said, " How could we go to Rime after the introduction of the clause into the Diplomatic Relations Bill which had offended the Pope and vitiated the action of that measure?"—(Hear.) The whole question had been placed in a faulty position by the introduction of the topic of the law of nations; for there were no treaty rights with respect to the Pope, and unless the Pope had injured one of (i, citizens, infringed our territory, or done some such act, that question could not striae. In Armenia the same conduct had been pursued as in England by the Pope, but there, as the matter was treated centempt, the Roman Catholics protested against it. It, however, the same course had been pursued in Armenia as had been followed in Enoland, and if the people had been told that by th e act of the Pope the undivided sway of the Sultan was in d anger, probably the whole body of the Armenians w ou ld have exhibited the same servility as the Roman Catholi cs h ere had shown to that potentate, the P ope. The Hon. Member having reierred to the occupation of Rome by the Fe end, and to the offer, as he observed, of the Czar of Russia's treasury and arms for the Pope's aid, expressed his conviction th at some cause other than religious waa the MAY l3, 1851. Lord 1846. tain, of II before, as it 0 answe r Inent o: In this zot cot liVisern Noble C a ura inquir inept, of Pr( the P Verna credit it fri with (He: Seen afort 10th Dun oOrn esca the 'Aar(