The Sun. — London, England, 1850-08-03 00:00:00

--...., 04 the sab."-------- . . that ,6,slect, and he believed he was justified in sayi . ng silit4bie'yl would he the last sum required to provid . a tte sio"eenuodation fur Members. He agreed in PreeratluOf the good accommodation. afforded H b ‘ y ga th re e 4 /4 L se, and Le thought if the Pew oust. tpect't,!ceemi modstion they - ought to be Content. With thay ai' tau ettrie, the roora better adapted for hearing afirt4 tem tatnited professors learned in .acoustics, and e „ ..L vas the subject had been left in a darker and tow I'C'Plezed state than bdore It was not difficult to 0i 4 roor a in Wh i ch * - place could aerd di . a person from a given '' Illieb ''tlr'ellYbut it was difficult to build a room pa t of th pars could be heard equally well in every Pele e of e r epas. It was impossible to say what the ex tot 4 eqeriosszte would be but he hoped they would e a renoir • h ' • e lle A o . e t 0 sum named in the vote. at, euse r uerco aa flUlYiPliEltY believed that a new b ee ' .3r superior to the ot ' out which so much had it Nee, "aid be built . e a° he therefore ough t i t tor 1 0,000/., and _ ow to 600ai ete piece of extravagance to throw T ao ~.,,,..,. compalterations.—(Hear.) erai,, AXCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, after 441)(41111' the proposed alterations by reference to a etllerieteesd ta ble, said that a large Committee of expee he ph , , .ketabers had come to the conclusion that_ tfiadia. '.v,%h. had been adopted was the !Jest mode of z kr, f',/;ttic;oet aceZemniodation. kber , `ll. 811ggested the propriety of hanging a lee ry too!, beepers round the walls, and placing ta : Pei:dee:3.'4e Windows, before incurring any further cx ,_ Oh , r , i 8 trti ! i',lt'ri:L remarked that by that means the echo Si r te.ll Chapel had been completely broken. sari thas4-I,L believed the accommodation i n the o gitti o4 ~ e would be sufficiently ampl e . If accomrao- Legl,44tede provided fora large body of the Members 11 iter`.l,le d_9bates would go on equally v;ell.—(rana2nod rabars!_...Fli.ere would be room on the floor . h fe w r ould to Pits 1 ;!, I _ ll . the, gallery far 150 more w h ,', the ZsTip• The estimate now giv e an w h hie believed eareatc" Lqe mount. He would sugges e t that the 81, l q . O p el : should placed under the control of the .a 7,tted ho 434114,4J:1er of Woods and Forests, and that h ,dit,,, re...„„res,,oasible for any deviation or h .ar, k „tosser) to 1 siOB oltte , opinion be le, wsy e de L entertained the same any extra ex -I,qat bt„,leec, that. the hearing in the House 1 ;o!) bay 0P:40..1. Perhaps it might be made hi u b. . I 1 .3 .. ition t se cie w fu o . ul .b d 4 1. ..(L 1h r ri. !ter for the purposes of the ex ei,)roftboVer.) He wished to know if the.Chtttona heaNt rest'lL4o/Iquer had come to any determin_a_ ,, i ar, %e,, ) 110 hs' j e the payment of the arehitect.—(H .. ste t • had to scru ale• ' that the orginal 44 311 th AI B in sa y in g Barry Ille s with.. a t '• arry had been broken. Mr. 0 a - , 4 k -Leese him - 1. Now he should \te a floe n o , t 0 Pay 7a,000 . k• t, h ear. \ ~ much Air. Berry was to receive ?- 4 t 110 1 l to p a ', I nd the Chancellor of the Exchequer lope Leet, renter into a lawsuit? -(Hear, hear.) he ~11304oen„"4,1; Barry cluld claim that sum and more, en t ql la 412.4,,,u blame hi" indulging his ta3te_whan. 11 1 it of t ic e e.,?, to do so. Ho would put it to the Ch 111:to kr. it'ceheqaer whether it would not be better ter 4e(Latigitetrery 150,000/. at once and cry quits with Member k tiot r Ylah or t. .) Ile differed from the qe a " 4 44 •t ) as to the propriety of plac H in e g e. the affair e Pest °' the Woods and Forests. The best and the tey we I t, Bla s i, . It dbe to appoint a paid officer to ma it th ' 1p4"."--(Hear.) h„: t e it , It behered that on the last day of sitting 4,115 d bc,ull3e, the facilities for hearing in different Ir k .; 1 111 . c.;c greatly increased. —(Hear.) N4lttiher-'°6ITLNOR believed the accommodation e e koo re 3 w ould b e hat Liladitio sufficient, but was her in le, , 0 -.. f 11 for strangers was altoget of opinion 1, 4 • r4er ear.) •tl ' , letl t Ette,,‘„, did n9t. agree with the Noblo . _Lord rxr o th in a . t , la th Pri 44104 1 .10 n had been provided r t he Iri s h .0 the election of 1841, during the e debates 1 Vaseat"eegistration. Bill, more than 600 Members 't,iLittt,r,l4rveral occasions. kkrlofei t p, 1 4uired if any practical inconvenience t '4.9. ftenre,t'a,,,,the present house being too small? le Gp,R,,,,-,vol Z--Yes.—(Efear.) . i4tYtllt,4 amt be said that perhaps some little inent?' , i 'rs e , 4,l ss t; e said that felt; but for the . .ord.t -'l4 ,T4e ens ef business he considered it sufficiently 1 11:' the jre'eat Rouse would seat 446 Members, tkei 4tkide-ew houso would seat 468.Har.) 1111 Lt1; . t e e t , l , starill,3.a PUMPHERY contended that the i y eti e • I J ab e t : a - i s , tee House encouraged vice, —(Lend 4 titoitate itie:Bllyhen some Members were unable to amused themselves Or). `4e,(l" gent aPstalrg and into the e % t o 8!_ ,•4aughter)—whilst others went _on. Itltivlr had .t,P.•-(Curitinuel laughter.) oriel. ,_ _ t4,(1..„, 'll.l.ereFsteil that accommodation should Hon. ttli tiir lotsadealners outside the House. Did the i ran, teeta oremain in Palace-yard ,tt n 3; 2 ;,,,,ar e diviqion ? (G eat laughter.) After until 4 44 1 ' " 0 00/ ' ' —C • • t o think k e t 1 oe, , ~,e It was reot..V discreditable . 14''' o th e i' 44 , l, rho Members could be seated, anci ) i tti l likt,l l , ll f Enlist remain outside.—(Hear, t,) Speaker .said that when Mr. Abercrombie,o oem_ (Hear, he w ar as th:'lape ko eater i n 1835 it was not the practice tor ar. (1 , 3 44 ° 4 the lobbies. 1 , ) , i lrat tit 1 3 116 Oa the t, On that occasion o t 1141 ' 34 e - “' Ill 'e Tt of "er'an was calculated to kr11t...4.2 my 0; 5. ie new House c h c e a y s ion were 3 1 all S ta • ertrear.) ixty more Members than the 11 11' t he ,t 4,44 rtuDIPRERY said if he recollected e k l ! l „he,,,„_eloe a ~ _ . e Ayes " re at 0,000, an -ireL" out, and the 46,,g011, ' II UItN - i n the pre th,''' f or Q ellies, thought the hearing . the 1 / 40 t keh ho h ad ' as defective as the hearing in Oa Neer Pat a question' to the Chancellor o_f At ~ ..r.) b i. , Without receiving any rely.—(Loud o ( .4), t ;`' l 6 !Chancellor of the Exchequer hear ALI/t.„ll4%.le'atiti,esd aughter.) te (lio"k;1-4L0.1t. of i trkt i t ghte rs , tne EXCHEQUER.—Per,. Gt et th eia Wa % sotiaie‘, Wuen a number of questions Ittitder. 441 tueetb:imes convenient to wait_ and an etktt I,,osrryavv r. It was true, that for the con superine 61 sat p eN . to be peid 25,0001. or i n the ykiZtite,it„..(%.ll Of the building included Member 10 I,4lllsee, that ile agreed With the . ti Hon.l d t o a much Itii t l ot y ' 4 Nti o „ k r. Barry was entitled s al ot b, , but what the precise amount .WII:, k ? ZO • 'n settled Iv h . oß,ls'e en a _ , and therefore he w as not la he etlloh,4,3wer to the Ilon. Gentleman. ehe , 4A1106-"tls he received anything? , 1"k -te otop EXCHEQUER replied e st . ii,rocoive., eof the iNd 41,3 Lott', ,ss.' about 25,000 Z ktt ta,44eteber'''frurred in the remark of the Noble 4 41 411 0 t , ? taa e r Middlesex, with. regard were called c t a h l o le s d e I t te 8 . TL. %traordinary reasons, was a etklaekoti i 'le tu rn . NO%) It Ito lug them out on divisions ar, and I L ord as lje arbarous customs—(Hear, he ITet Ivo t each . true the Committee would endeavour y l 5 .ttuttl ll`fennalnadation to strangers as circum el ~,4t belies-Meer.) t t t ' If tr°l. wither:el the Chancellor of the Exchequer gllr d to the abrogation of the con 114;IIs h tts ti '4 of ,:act to been bsoken it was broken by t ' i hi4 tt to at ' l " tr i. 1 3 arry, an d slr j 4 f / Vaa 0 Y urther r emuneration. The resolu : . on that account he was 4t114(1-1. Il l' th ° - '414(1 by Sir IL Peel fixed the . remu t et.thot,ea ea, ..cellipletion of tbe whole building a coLliktou(p.dia"l:lttlet.,,ed the building a complete failure, 'ila'tllete4hie le netsveen Mr. Barry and Dr. Reid t i t , l il l t,) 41 '1 ty rltu both parties.-{llear, hear.) . il . -41' t hei r C o th e to appoint some one indi le'',.llseoi:',oie,,tee whole affair, and not to intrust it o tor -, 1414. heaelstioeer np W oo ' cl 3 and Forests, who vtittirll'Oe 4e 4 ess to attend to already. 4,"ttrPtseicktNa%.,STUellly was disgusted with the dis 4 ls t i, Il e to t h e which had been H ar tio 4 ' 0 to elltite Housea of Parliament.--( a : played 1 01 t`4 it,,,,'' ) tri i ,3' agreed with what bad been said . 0 1 ,0 the steps, „r with for the better accommoda ki,icThs Pr keij e :, atki thought it desirable to put an Net'„lt. a, ' q rEquithig them to withdraw during ilk Ile o ki1.j411,,,, 04°Ilr t ,: . tili °ltikii,at t hought it ouite impossible to ex aibetity. LcHlers of Woods 'nod Forests to under- A'9 1 ,, 4 3' 4 The Govern t ought to take the ttl ii fi l th, s ti 13 04 .„ Caen . that the t t 4. tis 413sde_, teeseselver. of seeing . It t o t 11 , 4 a q of th e Vor the benefit of the public. seei '‘l , 0 si lp 9 Wa s _ ‘'llancellor of the Exchequer t t,te oloteee:htiort wuietkt usslsssly expended. Itrtl, NC'cl 0 1 , ," regard to the ventilation of . e to e h th ed e o '4 I''oo 11,-"ee-ro, `'erarnittee-rooms. He had sat in AetNoee tt oo w t ,•';_ati b,.8 dewing four sessions, and no ire- Qea tQA.II male in thp ventilation of them. h oto" t icl v --tew Whe,hp- the present system of th ' 3 / 4 1 1 . 4(i tliatino• th ' - ', was an ex eta 44 wh at th e . e now buildings _ _ e b,lst t ter. se ierio 6 e e xpens e of it would be ? 11 , N P . ) 1 , e Person Would have the co: tech of 1 ti' th-ozitq ' 4 4 ''• GitZ)Nrc)t- v asks (1 whether the ventilation was he l'tetb ,',4tlet (),..°eo or two psrsons? 1 4, i o4traule s.xce`aid that the whole of the New Pa k4lll Q tt trained to 13„tieon of the House of Commons, had il tlZ4tilet*edbole h'ulittclieid for ventilation. Before next 41 t' for tt 4 t l l t . t h Cr d , bat agree in what the Hon. N-Ettoe t'altilitteeei.nad said as to Mr. Barry. In ,Y 1 ~t ` 44? % s ilt Niejual examined the whole subj?e, I ttO ti ; 13 % 3 , f as tell that no blame was to be ire it,"' r e err t ° r the alterations, and that they ks e t . \.„ 0 believe the alterations were de clitallciel, jflLoti, I i 'Pa 6 ) l°l( lin e '411157 pressed on the House the .4 t h 5400 0 • expelle de .4 a ) „ . ' otood. ne responuble for the 141,,, had 0,, ...vcp, N I./ No cti (,44}.. agreed with the Hon. t) t , i , vot m ,41 tl i , tto be responsible. Hitherto Mr. 4 e lti e ' 'Or a " control ov ' st sums . Member o re ill fpstv pab li, , b . .er oao of the large oel e4rteDlN ela et al,,,tiler, 'ee new llous e et Commons was lolilter"t te'-e(ilear, hear). He thought Mr. th st B lf i ac ; 4 0cl to „have advised the House ill ktrt,_thera xtio t , '4O objected to proceeding will, 4 41; ° N i Nht'eY Wo uld - be a failure. He thought l ot e ''reti o l l th e aab !') he es .b•eator accommodation for ; It ek,, 4l or: ls . , as e o ,„'" Ileuse. With regard to the plan 41', hes,,,llleou„",PrePosed, lick thoulat it would pro' 'lliv t h,,) p or :'ellee then at pr i e s nt eeisted.— tha4 eol,esiler, when if a - r ' to l o bo ti e , (.4'otleeen a cpilo do Member happened i P I could ttriric)qt,Y&atlcl wYo,nthu aoBusel was put, nto 'l'l thot,a'd ho a - '" On his arr)ival there find ! the t • CI . az.4inu self alone perhaps in the lobby, or 4t, t Ilk, I kN ee, , t i t w o b r ,orts he wished to ote. 141 tis t hAt t r i l , t e tile (14 4 ' e f the EXCHEQUER could tlli t 4 tl tt• V rat aitt 4i • l"r the plan, but had only to 4 1 t„, t tl Of . t' hi j i d I,LI were unanimous in recom -4 8 11: 1 .411 Y su m 'llllBelf unanimous responsible for the ex kr,t.t. bls devi,t. vot t a i n th 13 Ra .4 ''4 ao I tat t ,. 4 nl fr o , a t , Is aceouat by the House, Pt - 4i RO i '''r t a id th , l ' a P la n. tea til t oesi eri tiel e tb k o n hou se a ; i t t i l l t etr had been discussingla II a l4 elPr ec'n'ersas aut any amendment. t , ote ittilhe, essee bt, „'ell should cease. The se i,as it 'ia,,ight k i'; then Hon. Baronet opposite trit,l,7e " a se, tis 'ego/I:G:34° It wroug lobby in t h e new ot l i ti Path t end . for ty not ' easen fur maintaining te pre !tltesst4tnnal nhvgei,ars' in a h to a chamber ' sl los i ' '' l ea w• - 44 1 Lae' -""011 Wo uld e b r e ry the result. It of w sl b Ithset 1.,,, if ther e eo • • in l a Ili si l ' l tal o Y the vi i 'lltes, ea u.d, be no su cc ess . ki d I ,oet eh eis at e tory of ~.0 shooting of Byng . was ' dept et w -.eels% xrafaigar. The tailure '' the , at.erloo `''., Yrea preceded the success of rtl Atle n._ . 41 e im h - mstaja ad Pelle ment of MaFples .And the decapitation of rvl VI LI _EA Laud led to the purity on the_ episcopal bench. Now no such example .had been, made of a culpable architect. A member of that profession fails in every respect, but expends an almost incalculable amount of public treasure. Did it not follow that if they wished to have a success ful architect they should set an example, and cat off the expenditure of the present?—(A laugh.), Alderman HUMPRERY thought chat some guarantee should be given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the estimate and plan would, not be exceeded. Mr. WAKLEY was one of these who thought the alterations in the roof of the new House had produced a great improvement with reference to wund. He did not think that the new House had had a fair trial. Every one knew that it was far more, difficult to hear in ix new than in an old building. The vote was then agreed to. SAVINGS' BANKS. On the next vote, 30,000/. tor relief to a certain cx tent to the depositors in the late Cuffe-street Savings Benl4 in Dublin, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the House was aware that a Committee had sat on the subject of the late failures of savings banks in Ireland The Lord Mayor of Dublin (Ur. Reynolds) was ono of the Committee, and he reminded the House of' the fact mainly that he might bear testimony to the zeal which the Hon. Member had shown, and to the services which he had rendered the Committee on this question..— (Hear, hear.) That Committee had made their report, in which they had referred to the failures that had oc curree, and particularly to that of the Cuffe-street Savings Bank, in Dublin. Under all the circumstances of the case the Committee had thought it right to moat mend the Government to make a grant in order to meet part c:4' the losses sustained by the depositors in those banks. Sir J. GRAHAM requested the Right Hon. Gentle man the Chancellor of the Ex c h equer t o give a rather more detailed explanation with respect to tiler, subject. They were called upoa to agree to that vote without having seen the evidence given before the Committee. He would ask whether that was a unanimous recom mendation of the Committee; and also why the precise sum of 30,0001. had been fixed upon as the amount to be voted? If the claim 1923 an equitable one the entire of it ought to be paid, and not 10s. in the pound of it. He would wish also to know what was the diffaeace be tween the Tralee case and the Cuffee-street case. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the recommendation of the Committee with respect to the Cuffee-street case had been unanimous. A die. ference of opinion had existed as to other banks. The Hon. Members for Kerry, Cork, Stroud, and the Lord Mayor of Dublin bad been in favour of a similar mea sure of consideration being extended to all the other banks. It was not a recommendation of the Commit tee that a payment of 10:4 in the pound should be paid to depositors ; but what was recommended was that it should be given as a sort of charitable donation. Sir J. GRAHAM—A charitable donation,_ on the part of the Government or the British public? After a few words from the CIiAI`.IOELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, iu explanation, Sir J. GRAHAYI said if it was a matter of charity, it became a matter for their mature consideration; if it was ono of justice, it would be unworthy the British publiC to make a compromise about it. He had looked-et the report of the Committee that morning, and he confessed 'he had never read a report more difficult to undezetend. He would repudiate the idea of giving charity'hut of . the public exchequer; but if it was a measure of equity, and justice, it should be fully sad properly met. That , as as a very important question which they had to consider, and he could say there was no subject which was more worthy the careful attention of the House. They were called upon in a Committee of Supply, at the end of the session, to vote 30,0001. for an object on which they had but so little information. They could not tell where that precedent might end if it were once established.— (Hear, hear.) He believed there were some Scotch cases, and also some English ones besides. If they were to snake a charitable intervention to meet defalcations on the part of trustees, they could not tell to what extent Parliament might be called upon; bat if this present matter were one of law and justice the House should not fall short of its duty, and its assistance should be ex tended to all cases in Eagland and Scotland, as well as Ireland, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the distinction between the Cuffe-street Benk and the others was this—that in fact it had been insolvent 20 years ago (as the Right Hon. Gentleman was understood). Twelve years ago the state of the bask had been brought under the consideration of the Government of the day. It was then thought to compel the bank to wind up its affairs. In 1845 its condition - had been brought under the notice of the Commissioners, and they had recommended the bank to be closed. But this had been refused to be done. If the accounts had been wound up at the time, the loss would not have been so great. The depositors in that bank, who were of the poorer classes, seemed to think they had the security of Government for their money; but as there was not, the smallest chance of their obtain ing anything for them, the Commissioners had recom mended their case; but, at the same time, they did not consider there was any legal liability. Mr. H. HERBERT considered that those depositors being of opinion that in depositing their money in those banks they were. doing so under Government security, were entitled to some compensation. He could nut, however, tee that any difference should be made among those banks which had suffered from the defalcation of their trustees. The result of the inquiry into the matter had been, that those depositors had justice on their side, and that the detaulters connected with those banks ought to be punished. If, then, the cause of the failure of those banks lay with the National Debt Commis sioners, why not punish them. In the case of the Tralee Bank, the conduct of Mr. Tidd Pratt had been con demned by the best judges in Ireland; and in the case of the Killarney Bank, where there were assets, ho bad awarded twenty shillings in the pound to those depositors who had deposited their money previous to the passing of the Act of 1844, and three shillings in the pound to those who had done so after the passing of that Act. It was said, that , were the claims of those depolitors conceded, those who had suffered from the failure of such banks in England would come in for a share; and he would say, if their sufferings had been eccasioned by the negli gence of the Commissioners of the National Debt, as those of the depositore in the Irish banks had been, they ought to be remunerated for their losses. He hoped that some one would take up the question as one of na tional importance, involving to some extent the national honour, as not until then would that justice be done to those depositors which they were entitled to. Mr. J. A. SMITH said that the Committee on this subject had sat three sessions, and the evidence taken before the Committee daring the two past sessions had been published and was before the House. The evidence taken during the present session did not differ in the least degree from that taken during the two previous sessions, and it was not thought necessary that it should be published. The circumstances attending the Cuffe street failure were so discreditable to the managers, that while the Committee felt that no blame was at tackable to the Commissioners of the National Debt, yet there were circumstances connected with the case re specting the Communications between ' the managers of the bank and the Commissioners of the National Debt, which entitled the depositors to the corn miseratiou of the Government. It appeared that in 1831 there was a deficiency in the bank, and the trustees offered to assign over the assets of the bank to the Commissioners of the National Debt, but the offer was not accepted. There was no doubt that had the bank suspended its operations A that time, the losses to the depositors would have been inconsiderable, and he did not hesitate to admit that Mr. Tidd Pratt had made the suggestion of carrying on the proceedings of the bank at that time.. The business accordingly went on until 1838, when the large amount of the arrears attracted the notice pf the Commissioners of the National Debt. The bank ettnally closed with a deficiency of 64,0001. They were forced to this by the fact that they had re ceived notices of withdrawals which they could not meet on the following Wednesday. At that time they had 1,9501. in the bank. What did they do? They absolutely distributed this aura among their own friends who had not given notice, excluding altogether those who bad given notice. Th.) Committee decided that the deposi tors had no legal itlaim, but that they had a elaim upon the sympathy of Parliament, which could not be re sisted. And now the question was whether the Chan cellor of the Exchequer was right in giving them ten shillings in the posuad, and next whether they ought to take criminal proceedings against the trustees. He cer tainly wished to obtain something from the trustees, confident that wilful neglect could be brought home against many of them, though they might not be • cc ge nisant of the frightful fraud which had been committed, still he thought they ought not to escape without punishment. He ivies of opinion that the Chancellor of the Exchequer went as far as he could in proposing the 30,0001. to indemnify the depositors. With regard to the Killarney Bank e Mr. Tidd Pratt was not in any way to blame. The alteration made in 1844, which released the trustees from responsibility, placed Mr. Pratt in the position that he was obliged to pay the depositors pre vious to 1844 before he could pay any one else; the con sequence was, that the depositors previous to 1844 re ceived twenty shillings in the pound, while the others received but three shillings in the pounti. This was strictly according to law, but he could not say it was equally according to justice. The case of Tralee was one which he hoped , would be the last of the same kind. Before Mr. Tidd Pratt could make an award he was bound to fix the notice on the doors of the batik, but as that was the actuary's house, and be had fled, there was no bank; but Mr. Tidd Pratt did all he could, by• serving the trustees individually with notices. str Mr. REYNOLDS void the case ofthe tj u the ffee - e Bank s in Dublin, was a special case, whether trus tees or the Commissioners for redeeming the National Debt were considered. If they had complied with the provisions of the Act,. and required a•return of accounts, or on refusal they bad closed their accounts with -the bank, as the Act required, they would have been obliged to wind up their affairs, and the consequence would have been that the depositors would have received, in 1838, sixteen shillings in the pound, and in 1845 fifte en shil hugs in the pound. He denied that this should be cons sidered as a charity. The money was duo to those poor people by the country, and they had no right to com pound with such creditors. He was told in Dublin it was a packed Committee, but he said no, it was not a " packed" but a " Select Committee." Ho did not mean to say that it should be given ai a charity; bye was not there to do so; but he demanded it as a right, inasmuch as it was by reftiou of the misconduct of officers of the Government the failure took place. In his opinion, they ought to pay t'ae entire sum, with interest, to those poor people who lost the it all. Be, howevcir, accepted it thankfully as an instalment, and accepted is with Banks, j great injustice had been done by Mr. Tidd Pratt, gra ` it ' u ' l • " 71111 reg a rd to th e . Tralee and Killereey in giving 201. in the poue.: to depositors before 1844, and 3s. to those subsequent to that period.. Mr. J. A. SMITH, in explanation of the third para• graph of the report, where the word“ illegal" occurred SUN, " LONDON, as regarded Mr. Tidd Pratt, said it was an expression which did net justly apply to that gentleman. Sir J. GRALIA& observer], that until he received his Parliamentary papers that morning, he had not the slightest idea the vote would be brought on; and as the evidence was not yet printed, they were under great obligation to, the chairman of the Committee for the ex planation he had given. The question they had to de cide on was o f great i m p or t ance , an d t h e y were ca ll e d o n `to decide it on very insufficient facts, but .ho believed that if the case were a just one, it should not bo a pay ment of 103. in the pound, but the entire sum. The vote they were called on to give appeared to him to be an in correct one, for if they paid anything, they should pay 64,0001., the entire stun due. The Right Hon. Baronet tten detailed the embarrassment of the Cuffs-street Bank in 1831, and in 1838, when they were brought under the notice of the Commissioners of the National Debt; and also id 1845, and in 1848, when the Lank was ,closed altogether. If all these things could be sub .stantiated, is was a case not of charity; but of equity; but, with thg evidence they had before them, he was not prepared to exprese a 'decided opinion on the subject. The chairman of the Committee had stated that the de positors bad no claim either in law or equity. Mr. REYNOLDS—Not equity; the word equity was not named. Sir J. GRA.HAM—The chairman certainly used the word Equity, and if that were so, if it were for cornpas- Isign or sympathy, then what claim had the Cuffe-street Savings Bank above Tralee or- Killarney, or Rochdale, or the other parts, of England where failures in savings banks took place. At that late, period of the session it was inexpedient, in his opinion, to press that vote, be cause, if they put it off until next session, they would then have time to consider the whole subject, and to legislate upon it, so as to protect fir the future the working clasSes of this country., Colonel DUNNE said that no further evidence could be taken, and he therefore saw no reason whatever for postponing the vote until next session. Lord CLAUD HAMILTON felt bound, meth° part of the 600 depositors, to return his-sincere thanks to the chairman of the Committee for the great care he evinced on their behalf. With regard to what had been said of the mismanagement of the trustees of these banks), the Commissioners of the National Debt knew it, and yet allowed them to go on year by year, from 1831 to 1845. To that monstrous injnstico he begged seriously to call the attention of the Noble Lord at the head of the Go vernment, and to impress upon him the wrong and injus tice done to so many thousands of their suffering poor. If the trustees neglected their duty—and they did so grossly--the example was set them by those who should have set them a better example, namely, the Commis sioners for the Reduction of the National Debt. He called in two boys of the age of fifteen as arbitrators. Ho instructed these sham arbitrators to disagree and call him in. • He was called in, and confined him self only to giving advice. If a man was called in he had no right to give rimy advice till he had made himself master of the subject, which he could not have done, as it is said that he did not feel him self authorised to investigate the affairs of the bank. Mr. Tidd Pratt had, under these circumstonces, recom mended the bank to be kept open.' The Chancellor of the Exchequer, with his usual eloquence, did his utmost to prevent the case being made public.—(Divide.) It was creditable to the Right Hon. Gentleman that ho had not allowed his former opposition to obscure his tease of justice.—(The noise in the House, and the calls for a division were so loud as to render the Noble Lord in audible.) Mr. GROGAN said he thought the case so strong, and it had been so fully argued, that he tli4ight_the vote should at once be agreed to. If they2pestponed the question for fuller investigation, much. suffering, _priva tion, and misery, would be felt by the' unfortunate de positors. Mr. HENLEY said they were asked to give the money, without the Government laying down ono single principle in reference to it. They were not told whether it was charity or justice. It was clear, from the report, there was no legal or equitable claim. If that were so, he thought six hours' consideration insufficient. If it Isere charity, he had no objection. If it were a claim of justice, they should pay in full. But, under the cir cumstances sti.ted in the report, and upon the statement of the Right Ron. Gentleman, without further considera- tion he should be compelled to oppose the vote. Mr. BROTHERTON said there was neither a legal nor equitable claim upon the Government. The trustees of theso banks had declined to act upon the advice of the Commissioners of the National Debt, to close the bank. They -had, thertfore, no just claim, and he should feel great difficulty in supporting it. If they made a grant to any bank, they must make it to all. Mr. MORRIS said he should support the vote, and hoped that dm grants would be extended to Wales. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said that this was not only an English, but it was an Irish, question. He put the claim as one of justice and equity. He did not pretend there was a legal claim. Tho poor depositors were destitute of any means of redress. He thought the whole defalcation ought to be made good by the Government. Mr. BRIGHT said, that the case of the Cuffs-street bank was of a peculiar nature, and if the circumstances of the failure of the bank in Rochdale were similar he should .feel himself justified in applying to the Government for the whole deficit. The Commissioners of the National Debt had actually connived at the insolvency of the bank. During two years no reports came from that bank to the office of the National Debt. Some of the gentlemen in that office must have been actually cognizant of the frauds committed in that bank. They must have known that it must be failure, and that they must eventually come to the Go vernment. There was no charity in it. The claim, considering the gross neglect of the trustees and the Government, was one of justice. The depositors in the Rochdale Bank had been paid 12s. in the pound by the trustees and from various sources, and they had given a release to the trustees. If the existing law was altered, he had told the Chanceller of the Exchequer that he would vote for making good the deficiencies. But then there was no efficient audit or- control. The Cuffe-street bank stood upon different grounds to all other banks. If hu was called upon to vote for the pay ment of the whole 64,0004 he should feel himself com pelled to vote for it. The CHANCEELOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the case of the Rochdale Bank was aescribed as one of pure sympathy, and it was the same with all the other banks. That did not constitute any claim upon the Government. But the Cairo-street bank was dif ferently situated, and so the Committee thought. The distinction between that and all others was that the knowledge of the deficiency was laid befor the Commis sioners torlhe Reduction of the National Debt, which was in fact the Chancellor of the Exchequer of the day, and for valid reasons, as was then thought, it was deemed not advisable to take a step which would have led to the winding up of the whole affair. Judging cx post facto, he thought that a mistake had been made, sad as that mistake had been made from a consideration of the pub lic interest, to avoid increasing the panic, that bank had a kind of claim upon the public, but whether it was one of sympathy, of equity, or of charity, he could not pre cisely say. He could not draw a distinct line, but he thought the circumstances constituted a claim, and if he spoke for six hours he could not make the case clearer. That was not the ease with any other bank, and he thought he need not say a word more. Mr. NAPIER said the case of the Cuffs-street bank was not one of charity or sympathy. It was not a mere mistake in the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt, but it was a positive neglect of duty on their part. The depositors had the security of the local trustees and the Government. The statute requited them to publish the affairs of the bank, and they tad not done so, and if by renson of that neglect, which was resolved upon on grounds of public policy, as exposure would have increased the public panic, there, was a claim both in law and justice. The gallery was then cleareds and the Committee divided, when there appeared For the vote ... ••• ••• 118 Against it ... 39 Majority „ —79 sumed. _ The vote was then 'agreed to, and the House re- Mr. o BE v R t d s A brought up the report on supply (re maining on civil service), which was agreed to. - WAYS AND MEANS. The Hescsie then resolved itself into a Committee of ways ar me d means, and several votes for the service of the y ear having been agreed to, the House resumed. The Customs Bill was read a second time. The Marlborough House Bill was read a second time. -INSPECTION. OF COAL MINES. Sir G. GREY moved the second reading of the Coal Mines Inspection Bill. The necessity for such a measure had been universally admitted, the Bill bad received much consideration in the other House, in which there were large coal-mine proprietors; and he had also re ceived statements from the most important coal miners in various parts of the country, approving of the Bill in its present shape. Under these circumstances he would not detain the House by, any lengthened observations, but content himself by moving the second reading. Mr. DISRAELI was somewhat surprised at the state ment of the Secreiary for the Home Department as t o the feelings of the owners of coal mines with respect to this Bill. On the contrary , he h a d received statements m o ost th e es measure.ltela'iivee coal proprietors The Ri g ht from ob t i s n o g m e s t r o h o f n g t lye to Honourable Gentleman must also have been / ni s i" formed as to the reception of the Bill in the other House of Parliament. It enec luntered a very determined opposition, and gave rise to a long debate, though from certain - circumstances no divis ion took place. The Bill was a most hasty and precipitate piece of legislation upon a most important subjects Whatever might bo th e opinion of Hon. Members e a to the propriety of inter fering with the employment of capital, a question he wa s not indisposed to entertain upon sufficient grounds, it would be admittedithat:they should clearly see the nature and extent of the proposed interference. Ho thought that if, at this late period.nf thi session, the Right Hon. Gentleman would postponelegi.ilation on. the subject till next session, and then introduce. a pill 'aimself, it would be far more satisfactory- to ma parties than the present Mr. HUTT, being' , connected with, measure. the suggestions sit? the Hon ilea- bh, the north Eng land, .h • Buckingham n n i i a l l a . t i o l o i s e from should ex likesteEs to , (Ted that the Seeretasy of 6', ate would not listen er shire. The Hon. 31 • ,m.ve oer said ~ba had received commu to nications Hers in opposition to the who they were, because he had indivichially receive fectiy unobj(etic,able. t atatnments from the most ITetpilrt%lat coal-owners in v t a t: Lill as amended was per conlveted, btailag that tho e c lists-let with which he was this Bill into a law this Hon uwatienian would 11 siists:Alf,otrhetrheifsorme,eathsuerletiwgahst e i s v e s; ; w . ere lost yearly from year. Mr. AVYLD said, the e n ar es r : shown by the inct, that 2,000 I proof of his as. or .triPlit li te .) ho ‘ u V r h o a f t the defeelive ventilation in tIA sss night, he . would produoyi3ta m be said was true, and if it sys s nt9; flies!inines SATURDAY sertion. The whole of the Colliers were in favour of the measure, and he,did hope that the Right Hon. Baronet would not be deterred from carrying a measure which would entitle him to the perpetual gratitude of that valuable class of men. . Mr. HEADLAM was bound to state, that connected ,as he was with the great coal district of this country, he hadl received from the body of coal •owners a general approval of the principles of this Bill. .jr. HUTCHINS, as an extensive coal-miner himself, saw nothing in the measure objectionable, and hoped it would pass into a law. Mr. WAWN opposed the second reading. Mr. G. SANDARS said he had' received from the coal-owners of the West Riding , of Yorkshire a getiervi approval of the Bill. - Mr. LOCKE sid. that whil e h e did not appro v e the measure ho repudi a t e d , t h e censure cast by implication on those engaged in the v en til at i on of mines by the Ho nourable Member for Bodnain (M r . W y ld). H e h a d him self been engaged i n t h e study of the ventilation of mines, and he f e lt b oun d to say that there was a body of practical intelli gence engaged in that department that could not Le‘ equalled.—(Flear, hear.) They must not expect that any. Government inspection could make the number of accidents loss numerous than at present, and he only feared that the effect of the measure would be to cause coal-owners to transfer their own responsibility to the shoulders of the Government. Mr. FORSTER, amidst cries of " Divide,' 4 said that if the Hon. Member hictblanaed the - men for the accidents in nine cases out of ten, instead of the bad ventilation of the mines, he would have been nearer the truth. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday next. The Registration of Judgments Office (Ireland) Bill vrat read a third time and passed. The Landlord and Tenant (Ireland) Bill passed through Committee pro forma, and was ordered to be recommitted on Monday. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND)BILL. On the order of the day for the third reading of the Municipal Corporations (Ireland) Bill, Mr. REYNOLDS comp l a i ned that the Bill had been forced through the House at every stage at an early hour of the morni ng . Th e Secretary for Ireland and th e S o li c it or -G enera l f or Ireland had, apparently?, re solved to pass it at all hazards, w h en they well knew that if t i me bad been g i ven every ward in the corp ora ti on of Dublin wou ld have unanimously petitioned aga i nst the depr i vat i on of their rights and privileges.—(Hear, hear.) When the Secretary for Ireland stated that the opposition offered to this Bill was a compact, he should strongly deny that assertion, for no such thing ever existed; but it was natural that a municipal corporation, whose rights and privileges were violated and swamped by such a measure, should offer every opposition pos sible to it. He considered that this Bill was as great a blander as number one Bill, which from its numerous errors was necessarily withdrawn. He should add that he did not see why he and his constituents should not oppose a measure that tended to deprive the ratepayers of their rights a n d p r i v il eges—name l y , o f the franchise, of which they wou ld b e ro bb e d b y t his Bill, He re gretted that the Right Hon. Beronet (Sir W. Somerville) should array himself and his colleagues with the enemies of the people of Ireland against the Irish people, and ha assured him that he and his constituents would 'raise poputar opinion ag&inst him on his return to Dublin. The Bill was dicta read a third time and passed. • The Police Superannuation Fund Bill was reads se• cond time. The Other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Hale-past One o'clock. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Com mons .) FRIDAY, AUG. 2. CRIME AND OUTRAGE ACT (IRELAND) CON TINUANCE (No. 2). Motion made, and Question proposed, " That leave be given to bring in a Bill to continue, for a time Co be limited, an Act of the eleventh year of her present Majesty,' for the better prevention of Crime and Outrage in certain parts of Ireland :"—Amendment proposed, to leave out from the word " That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words " the distressed people of Ireland have borne un exampled sufferings, produced by famine, and by evictions from the soil, with praiseworthy submission to the Laws ; and it is the opinion of this House, that it is not just to renew and continue measures of coercion subversive of the Constitutional rights of the Irish People as British Subjects, whilst the redress of acknowledged grievances connected with the Laws which regulate the relations of Landlord and Tenant, recommended to the consideration of Parliament in her Majesty's Speech, has been neglected or postponed," in steid thereof: Question proposed, " That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question ;" Debate arising; Motion made, and Question put, " That the Debate be now adjourned." The House divided : MINORITY-AYES, 29. Hume, Joseph Scully, Francis Keating, ;Robert Tenison, Edward K. Kershaw, James Tennent, R. J. M'Cullagh, W. T. Thompson, COlonel O'Brien, Sir Timothy Thompson, George O'Connell, M. J. Walmsley, Sir J. Pechell, Sir G. Williams, John Pilkington, James Reynolds, John TELLERS. Salwey, Colonel Ansley, T. C. Scholefleld, William Moore, 0. U. Bass, Thomas Bright, John Cobden, Richard Crawford, W. S. Devereux, J. T. Duncan, George Fagan, William Fox, R; M. • Fox, W. J. Grace, 0. D. Greene, John MAJORITY-NOES, 89. Baines, M. T. French, F. Baldwin, Barry Frewen, C. IL Bellew, R. M. Fuller, A. E. Beresrord, William Goddard, A. L. Berkeley, Admiral Gordon. Admiral Blackall, S. W. Grey, Sir George Blair, Stephen Grey, It. W. Booth, Slr R. G. Grogan, Edward Bouverie, E. P. Gwyn, Bowel Brotherton, J. Hamilton, G. A. Burrell, Sir C. Hamilton, Lord C. Cabbell, B. B. Hatchell, John Carter, John B. Hawes, Benjamin Chatterton, Colonel Henley, J. W. Clay, James - Herbert, H. A. COCK burn, Alex. Heywood, James Cowper, W. F. Hothouse, Sir John Craig, Sir W. G. Bodges, T. L. Davies, D. A. Hernby, John Dickson, Samuel JoUM, Sir W. G. Dodd, G. Jones, Captain Dundas, Admiral Labouchere, Henry' Dundas, Sir David Lasedles, W, S. Dunne, Colonel Lewid, G. C. Ebrington, Lord Matheson, Colonel Elliot, J. E. , Maule, Fox Ferguson, Sir R. Mostyn, E. M. Fitzpatrick, J. W. Mullings, J. R. Fortescue, Chichester Napier, Joseph Fortescue, J. W. Ogle, S. C. Freestun, Colonel Packe, C. Iv. Paget, Lord A. Paget, Lord C. Parker, John Patten, J. W. Pennant, Hon. Cel. Plumptre, J. P. Pugh, David Plowden, W. H. Rich, Henry Romllly, Colonel Russell, Lord John Scrope, G. P. Seymour, Lord Shell, H. L. Simeon, John Somerville, Sir W. Spooner, R. Stafford, Augustus Stanley, E. H. Stanley, W. 0. Thornely, ThomaS Vane, Lord H. Watkins, Colonel Wellesley, Lord C. Wilson, James Wilson, Matthew Wood, Sir Charles TELLERS. Hayter, W. G. Hill, Lord M. SUPPLY. (IN THE COMMITTEE.) Motion made, and Question put, " That a sum not ex ceeding 300001. be granted to her Majesty, to enable her Majesty to afford relief to the Depositors in the late Cuffs street Saying.) Bank, in Dublin." The Committee divided :- . MAJORITY—AYES, 118. Adair, R. A. Grey. Sir G. Nugent, Sir Percy Bailey, Joseph Grey, Ralph W. O'Connell, M. J. Baines, M. T. Grogan, E. Ogle, S. O. Baring, Sir P. Hallyburton, Lord Page. A. P,arnard, E. G. Halsey, T. P. g, et, Lord C. Bellew.Pa R. M. Hamilto n , G eo. A. Paget, Lord G. Berkeley, Admiral Hamilton, Lord C. Palmerston, Vis. Blackall, S. W. Hatchell; John Parker, John Booth, Sir It. G. Hawes, is, Patten, W. Bouverie, E. P. Hayes, Sir E. rerket, It. iVowles, Admiral Headlam, T. E. Rawdon, Colonel Bright, John Herb:rt, 11. A, Reynolds, John Brooke, Sir Arthur Heywood, James Rich, Henry Millbury, E. H. Hobhouso, Sir J. Robartes, T. J. Caulfterton eild, J. Colonel M. Hobhouse, T. B. Romilly, Colonel/ cnat, Hodges,,T. L. Romilly, Sir John C la Childer3, J. W. Holland, Rob er t Russell, Lord John y, James Howard, Lord E . Seymour, Lord Clements, Charles Howard, Sir It. Shell, R. L. Clive, R. H. Hut c hi ns, E. J. Shelburne, Earl of Cockburn, Alex. H u tt, W illiam . Simeon, John Corry', H. Jones, baptai n Smith, J. A. Cowper. W. F. Keating, Robert Somers, J. P. Craig, Sir W. G. Labouchere, Henry Somerville, Sir W. Crawford, W. S. La.scelles, W. S. Spearman, Henry Dawson, T. V. Lennard, T. B. Spooner, Richard Devereux, John T. Lewis, G. C. Stafford, Augustus Dickson, S. Locke, Joseph Taylor, Thomas E. Dundas, Admiral M'Callagh, W. Tenison, E. K. Dundas, Sir D. Manners, Lord J. Thompson, Colonel Dunne, Colonel Matheson, Colonel Verner, Sir W. Ebrington, Viscount Maine, Fox IVesthead, J. B. Elliot, John E. Meux, Sir Henry Wilson, James Ferguson, Sir R. Moore, George H. Wilson, Matthew Forster, Matthew Morris, David Wood, Sir Charles Fertescue. Chichester Mostyn, E. DLL. Wyld, James Freestun, Colonel Mullings. J. R. Goddard, A. L. Naas, Lord Grace, 0. D. Napier Joseph Greene, John - yi ,u _, 011 .., John Greaten, Charles W: Norreys, Sir D. TELLERS. Hayter, W. G. Rill, Lord Marcus Alcoa, Thomas Arkwright, George Baldoek, E. H. Baldwin, Barry. Bass, li. T. Boldero, H. George Broadley, Brotherton, Joseph Cabbell, B. B. Carew, W. H. P. Christy, S. Currie, H. Davies, D. A. Disraeli, B. MINORITY—NOES, 89* Dodd, G. Plovvden, W. H. , Douglas, Sir C. B. Solway, Colonel Duncan, George Sandars, George Forester, G. C. Sibthorp, Colonel Graham, Sir J. Smith, Vernon Gwyn, Howel Thornely, T. JoWife, Sir VT. H. Turner, George Kershaw, James Waddington, H. s,, Langston, J. H. Wawn, J. T. Lygon, General Williams, John Morgan, 0. Willoughby, Sir H. Muntz, G. F. TELLERS. Tooke, C. W. Henley, J. w, Pechell, Sir G. Heald, James BARON ROTHSCHILD. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUE: Sla,—Lord John Russell having declared on Friday evening that if the Member for London claimed on Monday to be heard by counsel he would not oppose, the opportunity appears tote given for re-opening the whole case, and bringing to bear on it a now fire of the most vigorous intellect that can be oollected within the country, After the letter you did me the honour to insert in your paper of yesterday, it is scarcely necessary for rue to say I view • the circumstance as eminently for tunate. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, LAYMAN. London, 3d August, 1850. VAUXIIALL.—Tun BAL MASQUE. The " Bal Masque" was last night attended by the usual votaries of amusements of this sort, and by a large number of persons as spectators of the sports. The great influx of " charac ters" was at twelve o'clock, when the groups of Highlanders, couriers, brig an d s , rus ti cs , a nd sylphs mustered in good force. The dancing was incessant for some hours , the heat of the weather and the density of the atmosphere seeming to invi gorate rather than relax the sinews and muscles of the per formers. The noisy efforts of the monster band excited the (lancers to almost uncontrollable agility, and their move_ meats were certainly more vigorous than elegant. Mr. M. Barnett, the manager of the gardens, end a dozen or two as sistants, kept order and made proper arrangements to pre_ vent confusion. The supper tables and the saloon were crowded with parties, some in the disguise of masks and dominoes, and some in the happy state of exhilaration which no disguise can conceal. Everything, however, was well conducted, and though a good deal of somewhat coarse re partee was exchanged, there was sufficient decorum preserved to restrain without extinguishing the inevitable exuberance of mirth on these occasions. THE RAILWAY BOARD. The following is the Report of the proceedings of the Railway Board in the year 1849 :-- "TO THE QUEEN'S MOST ECELLENT MAJESTY. " We, your Majesty's Commlisioners of lieilwaYs, humbly beg to lay before y Majesty, a repot of our proceedings in the year 18Me "In this year a verylarge increase has_ n made in the railway communication' of this country, but not to the same extent as in the preceding year, 1848, although larger than in any' other previous year. At the commencement of the year 5,127 miles of railway were open for public traffic, including some miles of mineral railway not noticed in our previous. reports. During the year the opening of 869 miles has been sanctioned by the Commissioners, of which 630 miles are in England, 108 miles in Scotland, and 131 miles are in Ireland, making the whole extent of railway communication at the end of the year 5,996 miles; the proportion for England being 4,656 miles, for Scotland 846 miles, and for Ireland 494 miles, respectively. . " By a comparison with previous years it appears that the average length of new line included in each inspec tion is very mach less than in any preceding year; in 1848 the average length was 13,5 miles; in 1849 it was reduced to 9.8 miles. The number of first inspections of new lines, therefore, although extending over a less mileage of railway, is not diminished, having amounted in 1849 to 88, as compared with 87 in 1848, the mileage inspected during the respective periods being 869 and 1,182; but a marked difference has occurred iu the number cf postponements of opening beyond the time proposed by the different railway companies. In the year 1848 the opening was postponed in only 11 instances, whereas in 1849 it was found necessary in 42 in stances, which, with other causes, have required that, altogether, 166 inspections of railways should be made. The decrease in the avernge length of line included in each inspection may be attributed to the gradual open ing of small branches and short lines as links to com plete important communications, and partly to the pecuniary embarrassments in which many railway companies have bean placed. The difficulty of procuring fends, and the desire to increase re ceipts and to show an increased mileage of railway open for the purposes of public traffic, has evinced itself by many lines having,been reported to the Commissioners by different railway companies as ready for opening and for the conveyance of public traffic, which, upon inspection by officers of this department, have not been found in such a state that they could report that their opening would not be attended with danger to the public using the same. The reports of the inspecting officers having reference to these particular eases, with such others as apt:ear to contain any matter of general interest, are given in the eppendix, "By the opening of the East Lancashire Railway from Liverpool to Preston, and from Burnley to Colne, and by the completion of the Manchester and Hudders field Railway by the London and North-Western Rail way Company from Staley bridge to Huddersfield, two entire lines are completed from Liverpool to Leeds, com peting with the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, which in conjunction with the London and North-Western and Midland Railways 'had heretofore conducted the whole of the traffic between those places. The routes are as follow : "On the Ea3t Lancashire, by Ormskirk, Blackburn, and Accrington, to Coke, and thence on the Midland line by Skipton to L4eds-89i miles - dependent there fore upon the system adopted by these two companies for the accommodstlou of the traffic. " On the Lancashire and Yorkshire lines, by Wigan, Bolton, and Bury, to Dewsbury, and thence by the London and North-Western line to Leeds-81 miles ; or proceeding frow Dewsbury to Norreauton, and thence by the Midland (91/ miles) to Leeds, in each case de pending upon the united action of two companie!. "On the London and North-Western lines by Man &ester arid Huddersfield to Leeds (811 miles), entirely under one mancgement, with the exception of the Staley bridge branch, eight miles in length, and another portion three miles in length of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, over which the London and North-Western have powers to run. _ " The route used formerly to Le by the London and North-Western to Manchester, thenoe by the Lanca shire and Yorkshire to Normanton, and on by the Mid land to Leeds, 931 miles. "By the opening of the Leeds and Thirsk Railway from the former town to Wetherby, a competing line is completed for the traffic from Thirsk, the Newcastle coal-field, and the North of England to Leeds, and the manufacturing district round Manchester, shortening the distance very considerably. The old route by railway from Thirsk to Leeds was 574 miles, to Manchester 97i miles, which journeys can now be accomplished by tra velling 39 miles and 82 miles, respectively. "The Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railway Company have, in the present year, opened their line for public traffic from Sheffield by Worksop and Gains borough to Glandford-brigg and Lincoln; thus confer ring the advantages of railway communication upon a large part of Lincolnshire heretofore devoid of it, and completing as an inte g ral communication in their own hands another route distinct from those heretofore ex isting from Manchester and Sheffield, and the important districts surrounding those places to the east of England and the Humber at the ports of Great Grimsby and New Holland, opposite to Hull. "By the opening of the North Staffordshire Railway frrm Macclesfield to Uttoxeter, and of the Midland Railway from Burton to the Leicester and Swanning ton Railway, a more direct line is afforded from Man chester and the manufacturing districts, bordering the North Staffordshire Railway, to Derby and the counties of Nottingham and Norfolk, &o. " By the opening of the Shrewsbury and Birming ham and Shropshire Union Railways from Shrewsbury to Stafford and Wolverhampton, railway communica tion is afforded through a very populous and import ant mineral and manufacturing district which before was not readily accessible by railway. The Shrews bury and Birmingham line is, however, at present isolated from the railways east and south of it, and; therefore, does not as yet give rise to any great rail way competition by it and the Shrewsbury and Chester Railway with the London and North-Western Railway for the traffic to Chester and Liverpool,* except from the town of Wolverhampton and its immediate neigh bourhood. " The Eastern Union Company having opened their rail xay to Norwich, afford . to the public an additional line of communication to that town, competing with the Eootern Countias, but dependent on the latter company for the forwarding of the traffic between Colchester and London. " The opening of the Reading, Guildford, and Reigate Railway from Reigate, to connect with the South- %V eet ern line, near Farnborough, and thence on to Reading, affords a more direct communication between tbo east and west of England; and the opening of the North Kent line by the same company to Gravesend connects the important arsenals and dockyards of Chatham and Woolwich with each other and the metropolis. " No very inaportact lines have been opened in 1819 in Scotland, there inspected having been principally ex tensions or branches of existing railways of minor impor tenee. In Ireland, however, the linen opened appear to the Commissioners of a highly important nature, not only as conferring great benefits on poor localities, hut us affording important lines of communication in a national paint of view. The extension of the Great Bouthern and Western Railway has brought the important city and harbour of Cork within a seven hours' journey from Dublin, being the time at present occupied by the mail trains in traversing 164 miles, the distance by railwey between these two cities, and has also served to connect the large and important harbours of Cork and Limerick. Dublin is at present a twelve hours' journey from London, so that Cork may be considered as accessible within twenty hours from London. Tee opening of the Dublin and B. lfast Junction Railway from Drogheda to Dundalk, and of the Dundalk and Enniskillen Railway from Dundalk to Castleblaney, has reduced the journey very materially from the north of Ireland to Dublin. It is to be regretted, however, that the Boyne river still intercepts this railway communicae tier). The bridge, being a very large and expensive work, has not y e t been commenced. " The above are the principal railways open in the year 1849, from the poaltion of several of which, as links connecting other railways, and thus completing fresh lines of communication between different parts of the country, a great competition arises between sense of the principal companies. In some cases it will be seen that they afford outlets to places of shipment for the produce of inland districts, in others they shorten the distance tc) bo traversed between important parts of the country, and in all cases it may be considered that they benefit the immediate localities through which they pass; but the general effect of this multiplication of lines upon the railway interests, and the extent of benefit conferred upon the public, have yet to be determined by experience. " Where the competition between important points is not created by integral lines in the hands of only one company, the benefit derived by the public will depend upon the facilities of interchange, or for forwarding the traffic at the points of junction with other lines. This will to a certain extent apply where the railway of one company joins that of a friendly company; but where the forwarding of the traffic de pends upon the facilities to be afforded by a company which may be a rival either for the same, or at some other point for other traffic, it may. readily be perceived that there will be a strong inducement on the part of one railway company to impede the traffic of the other, and thus that the public would not derive the full benefit of the two lines of communication, and the shortest, and is all other respects the most advantageous route, may, in some instances, be effectually closed against all through traffic from another line. "In some cases, although the shorter rotate would, under an united management, be most advantageous to the public, the more circuitous one, even though not in the hands of a single company, may be productive of the greatest returns to that company which, having brought the traffic to the junction, would, by sending it the longer journey, receive rates upon its own railway for a greater mileage distance. This can be effected in a very great degree by obstructions at the junction in the interchange of traffiie, or by charging preferential tolls, and thus the object of Parliament in authorising the construction of the shorter line, on the ground of the advantages to be derived in the eunveyance of parecular classes of goods to eeeeiel markets by a shorter and more economical route, and affording a larger outlet for their consumption at mere moderate rater, would bo defeated. " Competition by .rail ways has Live this peculiarity, that they only compete ler traffic at perticuler points, and not throughout their whole length. as. although the termini may be the same, they pans through arid serve different districts in their intermediate coarse, and there fore the reduced tariff of fares and tolls craned by com petition would, under the present condition of the law, which provides fur eve! t eats for passengers and goods carried over the same portions of railway, and under the same circumstances, only apply to the poll its at and be tween which that competition arises, and snot affect the VENING-, AU G UST 3, 1850; rates and tolls at intermediate stations. The tendency, therefore; notwithstanding this multiplication of rail way; is to maintain the charges for carriage to or frotn all stations at which there is no competition at that rate which will render to the railways the greatest receipt; irrospctive of the distance over which the traffic is con veyed, but depending entirely on Whit the traffic can afford, and on the maximum rates fixed by Parliament. " This difference in the cost of conveyance way have a very serious local effect, giving advantages dependent on the will of the cOmpanies to one town, port, or dis trict over another, varying the relative value of pro perty, disarranging commercial or manufacturing inte rests, and causing fluctuations in a great measure irre spective of geographical position or othereSise existing local advantages, which may not preponderate to such an extent as to neutralize and difference in respect of charges made by the railway companies. " The effects and results upon the traffic of the coun try of this multiplication of railways can only, however, as yet be subject of conjecture, for it will be seen that the greater part of the competing lines have come into active operation during the past year, and that they form but a small proportion of the cases which will arise; se veral other important lines are now in course of con struction, and rapidly approaching completion, which, as they become opened, will greatly increase the number of t cases of railivay competition. The effect to be produced on railway companies themselves cannot, moreover, as yet be rightly judged of; nor the course they will adopt to secure their interests; nor in what manner their pro ceedings will affect the interests of the public. In a few cases, difficulties thrown in the way of an interchange of traffic may operate to exclude the public from advantages they might reasonably expect to receive; but probably an understanding will generally be come to by which the companies will divide the traffic in that manner which they may consider most advantageous to themselves, irrespective of the interests of the public, using their rail ways; but the intricacies of the question arising from these causes are great and various, and have not as yet fully developed themselves, and afforded information to such an extent as to enable any just conclusions to be arrived at as to the inconveniences which may arise, and the measures, if any, to be adopted to secure the public interests. " By a table incorporated in the report it appears that at the end of 1849 there were about 6,030 miles of rail way which had Nee authorised by Parliament, and still remained to be completed; that the principal part of the lines opened during the year were among those autho rised in 1845 and 1846, and that the proportion of lines sanctioned in those years, the powers for contracting which have not been abandoned, is very great, being one-third and three-fourths respectively, and a still larger proportion for the year 1847. " From a return prepared in the office of the Commis sioners, which has been presented to Parliament, it ap pears that on the 30th of June last 1,504 miles of rail way were in course of construction, and 5,132 miles of "authorised line had not been commenced, since which time up to the end of the year 576 miles have been opened for public traffic. It also appears that the num ber of miles in course of construction on the tat of May, 1848, was 2,958, as compared with 1,504 returned on the 30. h of June, 1849, as being in progress, and since in the same period only about 1,100 miles were com pleted and opened for public traffic, it folleves that, ac cording to these returns, all work has ceased on abets 350 miles of lines which were returned as being in pre press in 1848, and which for the present may be con sidered as abandoned or postponed until more prospe rotas times. "It is, therefore, to be inferred that no great length of new line has been commenced since last year, and that probably only about 1,000 miles out of the 6,030 miles which still remained to be opened at the end of 1849 were in progress of construction at that time. " The following table, compiled from returns which have been prepared for Parliament, shows at the respec tive periods at which the returns were made, May 1. 1848. and June 30, 1849, a comparison of the number of persons employed upon railways opened for public traffic, and also upon those in course of construction in the United Kingdom, from which it appears that the average number per mile of railway in operation has been reduced from 12.3 to 10.2, or 17 per cent., which may partly be accounted for by it not being necessary to extend the numbers employed in the general management in the same ratio as the mileage of open line increases, end also to the reductions consequent upon in creased economy and greater efficiency in mechanical details. The reduction in the number of persons em ployed in the construction of lines has been very con siderable, amounting to 84,361 persons, against an in crease of only 3,280 employed upon lines open for traffic, showing that 81,081 persons who in May, 1848. were actively employed in some capacity upon railways bad been removed from this employment, and thrown upon the general labour market of the country. Of this number about 18,000 have been thrown out of employ ment in Ireland. " This, added to the reduction in the previous year, gives a total of nearly 150,000 who have been thrown out of employment, and which will in the course of the current year, unless some great change takes place in railway affairs, be augmented, probably to the extent of 60,000 more, making an aggregate of 200,000 per sons, who may be considered as having been tem porarily withdrawn from other occupations by the stimulus which railways receive 3 in 1845 and 1846, and who must now seek a livelihood in other ways. Railways open. hallways not open. Average Average Line M No. of of per- No. of of per - Length per- sons em- Sta- course con-. per- sons em of sons ployod tions. of struc- sons played Line. em- per tom. ern- per p:oyed mile. ployed. mile. 1848. Miles. Miles'. May 1 .. 4,252 52,688 12.3 1,321 2,958 188,177 63.6 1849. Jane 30.. 5,447 55,968 10.2 1,850 1,504 103,816 69 Increase 1,195 3,280 -- 529 I 5.4 Decrease 2.1 1,454 84,361 A comparison of results derived from statistical in formation, obtained from railway companies by the Com missioners of Railways, and which have at various times been presentNi to Parliament, tends in some measure to explain the depreciation to which railway property is uow subject. The increase in the length of line open for public traffic during each of the years 1847, 1848, and 1849, has been at the rate of 30,30, 24.28, and 21.63 per cent. respectively; whiles the average receipts per mile. from all descriptions of traffic, has decreased during the same years in the ratio of about 9.22, q. 95, and 13.27 per cent. respectively, and this whilst the gross receipts upon all the railways has steadily increased in the ratio of 12.49, 16.71, and 12.75 per cent., for the same periods, eliding in June in each of the years 1817, 1848, and 1849, rc3pectively. These results cannot be compared dir;.!ctly with any stal.ement of capital :Alms expended in the construction of railways open for traffic, and which are therefore receiving, or entitled to receive, interest ' from the nek available profits accruing from the traffic on the railways. It would, however, appear, generally, that lines or branches have been made the traffic upon which ha; either not been developed or has nut come up to the anticipation of the projectors, or that r3ilwa3 a have increased in a more rapid degree than that at which the resout,; , ..s of the country caa supply traffic sufficient to yield the remunerative returns antici pated from the expectations raised at former periods, when only trunk-lines had been constructed, over which a very large proportion of the present traffic is carried. Probably all these causes have been in operation, to a certain extent, with others, to produce the existing de preciation of railway property. It may, however, not be uninteresting to consider the nature of this description of property a little more in detail. The following table, compiled from returns pre pared in the office of the Commissioners, shows the amount raised by railway companies in the country at the end of 1848. " I; will be seen that the increased amount raised by shares and loans during that year amounted to 33,234,8171, and that the aggregate expenditure WPS 200,173,058/., of which 43,664,4801. was raised by loans bearing an average rate of interest of 4-t per cent., and being, therefore, an annual chergo upon the permanently invested property of 2,020,3341. " Table compiled from statistical returns to Parlia ment, showing the amounts raised by Railway Compa nies in the years 1848-9, with the gross receipts for the same period:— Amounts raised by Railway Companies. By Loans. Average Total. By Shares. Amount. I:lnterest. ate per ß Ccut. End of 1847 125,149,476 40,788,765 • • • • 166,938,241 Pt 1846 156,508,578 43,664,48012,020,334 4 % 200,173,058 Increase 30,309,102 2,875,715 .. j .. 33,234,817 for 1846 - ----- Raised by tri goku panieg, who have not com- 2,419,098 272,201 .• 2,692,299 moored their works. • " Although the Cothrnissioners cannot at present as certain with accuracy the i.Dcreased amount raised in 1849, they believe that the total, by shares and loans, will be found to be considerably less than in 1848, and probably not far exceeding 20,000,000/.; and that, there fore, the total amount expended upon railways at the end of 1849 did not exceed 220,000,000/. " If the Commissioners aro correct in considering, as before stated, that about 1,000 miles of railway - were in course of construction at the end of 1849, by assuming that each such mile has had 20,0001. expended upon it, which it is believed is rather in excess of the correct sum, if it could be ascertained; and if the amount he still further reduced by the sum of 2,692,299/, which has been raised by 59 railway companies upon whose lines the works had not et that period been commenced, it would appear that at the end of 1849 the 5,996 rnilc3 in operation ropre.ienic a capital of about 197,500,0001., showing ior works, stations, plant, &c , an expeorliture of about 33,0001. per mile in the constructionof the line and the provision of the necessary plant and material for working. . _ 6, The gross receipts from ell the railways in 1849 amounted to 11,406,0001., from which if the working ex ponses deducte , Nat the rate of 43 per cent., nc:ng about an average taken from the published statements of a number of the principal companie , , there rem9ins a net available profit of about 6,7 9 9,4201., to remunerate the holders of property to the r mount or 197,500,000/., or at the rate of 3.40 per cent.; end it therefore appear:, that all sums raised at a higher rate of interest than this must reduce the aggregate revenue available for the remune ration of original proprietors. " In consequence of the larger rate of interest, 4i per cent., borne by the bum raised QA loans, this an sage rate of interest to shareholders cannot be stated at more than 3 per cent, on the aggregate of: all the' rail.. ways in the kingdom at the present rate of dividend. This, however, may be expected to improve from several d the which c regu lar ui causes; amongst others, improvements in machi nery and l c ar on a se n q d u ,g en ra t d r u e a d l uctionin working increase of raffi may be,considered is due to increased p o p u l at i on , deve lopmentexpenses,beforestated, of trade, and a greater appreciation of the bene fits 'of railway transit. "From another return prepared to an order of the Douse of Commons, it appears that in the session of 1849 an additional sum, amounting to 3,155,332/, was Autho rized to be raised, of which 594,832/. may be raised by loans, which, being . added to 143,717,773/., the total amount which at the end of 1848 the various railway com panies retained powers to raise, either by existing or by new shares, or by loans; will give a total sum of 14 6,873,105/, from which, if 20,000,000/. be deducted; being the sum assumed to have been _raised in 1849, it would appear that railway companies retained, at the and of 1849, powers to raise the sum of 126,873,105/.; of this 25,200,383/. was held. by fifty-nine railway companies, who, at the end of 1848 had not begun their works, 1,507 miles in length, and it may therefore be comfit:led that a large proportion of this latter sum will, in all probability, not be raised for railway purposes, and therefore that after making this deduction there remained a power to raise about 100,000,0001. for the completion of about 1,000 miles, and the construction of 3,523 miles not then commenced, and of which, probably, as a t a present sanctioned by th e Legislature, large proportion never will be commenced, and the capital, therefore, not be required. "Icom the returns of 'accidents made to the Commis sioners by the several railway companies, abstracts of which are attached to this report,-it appears that during the year 1849 only five passengers vtero killed from causes beyond their own control, being a great reduction on the number thas returned in the preceding year. The number returned as injured by accidental causes beyond their own control has also been very much decreased, being one•third less than in 1848. The whole number of passengers killed in the three years 1847, 1848, and 1849 were 30, 21, and 23; and of persons employed upon railways 124, 138, and 127, respectively. The number of trespassers and other persons neither pas sengers nor employed in any capacity upon railways which have been killed has amounted to 57, 43, and 52 for the three . years 1847, 1848, and 1849; of these last three were determined cases of suicide. " Considering that the passeegera who availed them ' selves of the railways in this country for the purposes of locomotion amounted in the year 1829 to the very large number of 68,841,539, being an increase of 10 per cent. upon the preceding year, and of 16 per cent. upon the number conveyed in .1847, it is most satisfac tory to perceive that there has not been a corresponding increase in the number of accidents. "In the case of a serious accident by which five per sons were killed and several horses killed or injured on the night of the 10th of February, 1849, near Rockliffe on the Caledonian Railway, the Commissioners sent down one of their inspecting officers, who, after in quiring into the attendant circumstances, reported that it was caused by one of the wheels of the tender chang ing its position upon its axle whilst the train was in motion, and so breaking up the road and causing the greater part of the train to be projected down an em bankment about ten feet in height. The luggage-van next to the tender, and a first-class carriage, remained on the line, as also did the last carriage of the train, the injury having occurred principally in a central carriage, immediately preceding a heavy post-office van, in which the post-office clerks were employed in sorting letters. It appeared to the inspecting officer that the wheel had been improperly fitted in the first instance in the manufac tory, and as a great number of wheels, fixed in a similar manner, were in daily use upon railways, and the accideiat had occurred to this wheel after it had travelled from 12,000 to 13,000 miles, the Commiesioners caused a cir cular to ho sent to the railway compaines calling atten tion to the remarks of the inspecting officer upon the advisability of an examination of all wheels so fixed, and the adoption of measures to prevent a recurrence of a catastrophe. ‘• The Commissioners think it right to advert shortly to a csse of considerable interest to an important mineral district in Monmouthshire, in which their assistance was sought in the adjustment of difficulties which arose be tween the proprietors of the Monmouthshire Railway and Canal and the mining and manufacturing interests, to which they afford the only outlet to a port for tho ship ment of their produce. This district is one which, as its mineral resources have become developed, has provided itself with canals, and then with tratnroads, upcn which for many years locomotive engines hove been used, as also horse-power. The canals and the principal tram roads are the property of the Monmouthshire Railway and Canal Company, but there numerous other tram ways belonging to individuals and other companies which aro connected with tLem, and to which they afford the only means of arriving at the town of Newport, the shipping place of the district. " The railway company having obtained Acts of Par liament by which they were to adapt their lines for loco motive traction, and to carry passengers, proceeded to take steps forthe alteration of their lines from tramways to edge railroads; but as the rolling stock in use was the exclusive property of other parties who worked over the tramways paying toll, the proposed alteration, involving very considerable expense to those parties, as well as prospectively to those who owned the various branch tramways, produced great discontent in th e di s t r i f4 among the various mining and manufacturing interests, and memorials were sent to the Commissioners praying their interference. These memorials having been forwarded to the rail way company, it appeared that the intervention of the Commissioners might be useful in adjusting the matters of difference, and they accordingly sent an officer to in spect the lines and examine into the circumstances corn• plained of, whose report having been forwarded to the cJmpany, they expressed their willingness to adopt the suggestions contained in it, as calculated to promote the intprests of the company and the welfare of the district. During the year 1849 it has become the duty of the Commissioners, in consequence of memorials received from several towns and from many influential persons on the line of the Oxf ,rd, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway, to consider the course to be adopted with re ference to the completion of that railway, under the powers vested in them by the 131st section of that rail way company's Act, 1845, by which it is enacted that, in the event of the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company failing to complete their railway and branches auLhorind by that Act, ' by neglecting at any time to proceed therewith in such manner as to afford a reason able security :*or the completion thereof r. ithin the afore said period, it shall be lawful for the said Great Western Railway Company, after giving one month's notice of tucir intention so to do, to enter upon the said railway, and to proceed with the construction thereof, and to c::erci::.a all or any of the powers of the company h.:- , rely incorporated in relation thereto, and if at any time the said company hereby incorporated s ail, in the opnion of the Board of Trade, fad to prcued with the construction of the said rail way in manner aforesaid, the Great Western Railway Company shall, on being required so to do by the said Bovd, entc,r upon the said railway, and shall complete tae same as aforesaid; and in such an event it shall not be kwful fur the company hereby incorporated, or the directors thereof, at any time from and after such entry a'oresaid, unless with the special consent of the said Board of Trade, to declare, make, or pay any interest or diiidend upon any of the shares in the said undertaking or to the holders or proprietors thereof, until after the whole of the said railway shall have been constructed and opened for public use.' " A number of petitions having been received towards the end of August and September, setting forth that the Oaforrl, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company were :.tapping their works throughout their whole line, and praying that the Commissioners would require the Great Western Company to enter upon the railway and com plete it, the Commissioners communicated with the companies, and caused the railways to be inspected by one of thoir officers, who reported that it was about half constructed, that a great portion between Evesham and Dudley, including the branch to Stoke, was com pleted, with the exception of the permanent way and stations; that on the part of line between Oxford and Evesham much had been done, and the works were in an unfinished state, causing, in some few instances, inconve niences to the neighbourhoods in which they were si tuated, and interruptions to the traffic on the public roads ; that in this state the works were apparently abandoned, there being no men to be seen at work on the line, and that the' postponement of the works was producing serious injury to them, and was likely, therefore, to cause an enlarged expenditure, if much pro longed. " The Commissioners also saw deputations from the companies on this subject, and being fully satisfied that the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton_ Company were failing to proceed with the construction of their railway, so as to afford a reasonable security for its com pletion within the period authorizt:d by their Acts, and having given the notice to the companies, they at length called upon the Great Western Company, by a requi sition tearing date the 17th of January last, to enter upon the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Rail way, and complete it. The papers connected with this subject will be found in the appendix. " An instance in which the Commissioners had deemed it their duty to interfere and institutelegal proceedings is in the case of tbeEdinburgh, Perth, and Dundee Railway Company. The 11th section of the Act 7 and 8 Vic toria, c. 85, provides that it shall be lawful for the Post master-General to send any mail guard with bags not exceeding the weight of luggage allowed to ant other pmfenger, by any train other than a mail train, upon tee same conditions as any other passenger. It appears that for some time the mail bags on this line were forwarded under the charge of mail guards tr.avel iing at the fare of second-class passengers by ordinary _ _ _ trains; the company, with a view to obtain a higher rate of pay went fir the conveyance of the mails, determined to refuse to allow the mail guards to take up or leave bags at any of the intermediate stations, and to prohibit any persons being admitted to the station platforms for the purpose of giving bags to, or receiving bags from, the guards, unless payment was mado for each beg as a parcel. The Postwaster-General being of opinion that would compel an increased this courze, if persLited in, ex iA , ,ncli!ure on the part of his d e p artment for railwa y servie: -, s, and deprive towns on the line of part of the .eer:eramodation whirl' they enjoy, represented to the Commissioners that it would he desirab!e to enforce the fr oVI • -"ens of the statute. The Coramsesioners, b e i ng 41 . enforce adriaad that - the company are bound to carry the mail hags and guards , as required t 3• the Post-office, have measurestthe General e ra to i Ae t fo a e issued their certificate for the law officers of the Crown r thr ) Plian cewtlh take the p ti" 7ov n i e s e io e n 's s aj Regula tion of Railways, 7 and 8 Victoria, c. 85. "The reports made by the Commissioners on subjects connected with railways in the colonies, which were re ferred to them in 1819, are given in the appendix. Ti. several clauses inserted in railway Acts of last session by Committees of the Ulnae, pz. of the instance of other I )f ed iir b 0