The Sun. — London, England, 1850-03-20 00:00:00

Ptite that !tap art I " 800. Fri. rd had (voted Sir C. [lath am in of his, views. Why he (Mr. Lshouchere) tn o itl ha d no other evidence to refer to, rest his whole t , i ( :PP"sition to the motion of his lion. Friend. to dattet.ll;wo"°Y or Sir C. Hotha:e. ! hat gallant 1A( 1 ,4.1 declared that he would not, cotist nt to the re- Iti% ute `_" the squadron oe the African coast until a wee p!), 7kS found to i.revent the traffic slave e. ah i Z s Pleted the horror of that traffic, or the evils of the tl et l : l °,''. a ge , with greater power, or warmer indigna ,trisptecieto...tool the C. Ilottam_(Henr, hear.) Then. wit h , t question of authority, hi , lion. Friend 11,460;.` the report t f a Committee of the House on th l i r; but surely the report ef a similar Com mittee ought tp have its influenco with his lion. to %ti 4110 Cornrdtt-e cf the House of Lord.: came ci ttrt; -13 P° 6 P0 coneletion from that arrived at by the 'sat i' t t . l e of the House of Commons; they reportedtht A f . was not desirahle to remove the squadron from 15Pctti Coast His lion. Friend seemed to antici gist° t : ti the members of the Govern e w ould repu- Ilse, question of economy in respect to this Ties !s,taair,t was true that the Crose•ntnt•nt was band te 14 e t he q'.estion of economy, but he believ d the , of 0: •'1 11 e Ensdand weold not, on the mere q testion 41);:," 111 7 alone, call fir the reineval of the squadron ,sltot i l l ‘ l viaan coast, and by doing se give up their cite sine t °_,Pes and their aexious t'esire to put down the t h,i4k t ",,'.-•—(llear, hear.) But did lion. Gen!lereen 4 1 ,_sipa if this squadron were removed there were no ho Mese seas to protect our trsde? He rather i tTPlai t t „ t ,hat the consituents of the lion. Gentleman msp s , t - 01r. Cardwell), who had a large and, he was tfri, () increasing trade with the native tribes of would not be very well satisfied if that trade was ''"°tcthat itwas ote .; and he would here observe, :fiat extension of the trade of this ceunery L r 'sa n ', ° Matins tribes of Africa that ho looked for &la eXtinction of tbe slave trade.—(islear, hear.) 1 4d, i 'ttidrawal o f th e squadron would restore the slave lt,ittat la give it a strength which they could n ot a fcer 444°"iate. Another point adverted to b y the lion vhith matt who had just sat down was, as to the influence On , 4 exercised in the diminution of th e trans p ort of i t h t st e e 4. ff ' ° •ca Africa There could be no doubt teat it lead the iee'ett—(No.) If not, how would thy a ccount for ksl e '; r ease in the price of slaves. The price of an adult tiee B ' ave in Cuba was now 1001 . , wh i le in Africa the srah . "% t let more than 20 1 . They might j ud g e what Ne t ar the transport was through the intervention of I ,o o , ? l,cadron w h en b e s t a t e d that Messrs. Hodge offered as o „ ' t act for the transport of emigrants from Sier ra one theft to the 'West Indies, paying every attention to tqd i t o refurts on the passage, at 6/. Is. 101 . per head, I t r ,o, 4li tlat be assumed that the price, if the trade was '114 1 4 -°41 ( .1 not be greater to Cuba, and that the cost at lla tt ,would not be more than 26/. 103. He thought We i h t u t e effect of havifig the price of slaves diminished ttili e , l l 'e to cause to be resumed the practice of what was ko tt ",,` using them up," which was attended with the the , s 'rightful results and cruelties. In 1821, before til a reventive squadron was established, the cost of %do ° was 20 dollars, but in 1847 it was 500 dollars, M c " 1 848 it rose to 800 dollars. At Cuba in 1821 the 1 00, 1 ° I a sl ave was 100 dollars, while in 1 84 7 it . was hi t r' ll ars. He, therefore, was justified in saying that Wa i iratlron did diminish the number of slaves. He ti t bosv refer to the opinion of Sir Charles Hotham, 1 6 0 wi en before the Lords' Committee, who stated that 11 1la t i t t hdrawal of the squadron, without providing a !Sid f t 010 e would be giving up the whole question. He cissi` itt ben that to withdraw the squadron would be lo ht eus to the honour of the country; and when int sr -140°4 Whether it would be injurious to the interest of he al natty, he replied that in this case they were iden teniel he added that cruelty to the slaves would be increased by the withdrawal of the squadron. Int ela arks H o th am , by the answers he gave before fret t , Committee, repudiated the use of his name. There ttf t ,c° l •ber portion of the question to be considered tfle o u t ° ; t bey agreed to the resolution, 'which was the foot tt would have upon the people of Africa. It ;bead have the effect of stimulating war and blood • ''hl A mong the natives, and ren e w t hose horrors le tt , fur two hundred years they had endeavoured to Ilia °II % lie thought, too, that this was a most inaus , e t „ :st• ;• Inement to withdraw the squadron, when events ' 2 4 1 41 Progress calculated to improve the condition of k b , Lives. They all knew the effect which the Re- Sfa t c of Liberia was producing, under the Presidency 114 t `r- Roberts. He had the good fortune of meeting tel v tentlernan, and he could not but state that it was 1 1 4 f ertunate that it was under the guidance of so able 1 11 0 n • That republic was establishing relations with tit" e ighbouring. states, extending its territorie s, and o,,tostieg its civilizing tendencies around it. It should 1 6 0 :e noted that there was in negotiation a treaty for laealrehase of the Carinas, which had long been the °,f the horrors of the slave trade, and also for t h e Sihtil Llshment of commercial relations with Dahomey. la lt i ;eeent purchase of the Danish forts would greatly tlitanbute to diminish the slave trade. The result of circumstances would be to give a line Iloa e° ftst of 1,500 miles completely redeemed 4 04 • the slave trade. He thought that the con -4R°,ll,ee of the squadron would greatly promote these taTi l natione, and that it would, therefore, be most in onl4.°ll3 at such a time to withdraw it. He had also to ‘ 0 the injurious effect it would have upon the Bri alo; '`hoof's. His Hon. Friend desired that the trade ‘lith i A ti be open. If that was the case, and the squadron Int t valan, the trade would be carried on by British ca ai t41 (1 British seemeo. He was sure his Hon. Friend h tt oet mean to revive the slave trade; but if the trans tsat.°l these people was allowed under the name of esnl sll,;°n, British ships would go to Africa for the purpose Is t i"r.;aging in the trade. He was surprised that the resc -4,5,n should have been seconded by a gout Oman con k:l with the West Indies. Now what the West Indies 1144; complained of was the want of labour, and could not v etand why facilities should be afforded in acquiring t% e s to their competitors. He thought he saw synap '3l4 of revival in the West India colonies. The export 'eaar from Jamaica was 657 . 000 tons, and in 1847 Ad i 84 8 it was 689, 000 . I n Trinidad there was an an p cse of 1,693 tons; and in Antigua of 2,334 tons. 140"auld on ly refer to the other document, ho meant it 4 rinual report of Governor Berkele y , in which deltasb stated that with reduced p rices the colony was heif e "ed, but that notwith standin g this depreciation he St4l2till hopes of improvement. Uader these cireum -16 ee s it would be a most inauspicious moment to make tkehange proposed, the result of which would be to their competitors an unlimited supply of slave la ke'. Ile was surprised at the illustration to which his • Friend resorted, when he said that we appeared in 1 4 0 c ase to lose sight of the principles which regulated la tt ° Perations of trade—an illustration taken from silk la ot t ,Aacco, where the intervention of the sneugglt•r cor -44„ th e eff_cts of extravagant duties, and consequent li o n Prices. But it should be considered that this was 4 0 ," question of silk or tobacco. It tires one of a diffe ties" slid higher character, and in which the feelin g s of 14dPeeple were at variance w ith the revival of the slave tO e ' On the :e grounds he entreated them not to agree th„ 4 e resolution. lie did not, however, mean to pledge t t ,. 41 to th e perpetual continuance of this force. That 4 0 , 'mother question. It any oth er substitute could be ti l „'!Zsted, or means devis ed, let them bring forward Is e s t i !Plan, and they wo uld discuss it. He had no predi : (lien for this plan if is bettor could be provided. He tl net give his support to this measure us a member of f Government. If there wee any policy that was not ti 411 4 r to a n i Government, was the question politica l transaction, or to a par eal • of the suppres dos ki am G ove rn of the slave trade.—(hose, hear.) He did G not, 14' e rer, wish to shelter himself under that. The o tt - k i l i llent participated in the general feeling, and were ti g l us to wipe off the disgraceful blot of the slave trade. te 0 — ,,,." . G. BERKELEY said it had been stated that Rao,'" good would result from altering the size the ter employed in this squadron. He had been in . corn 7 tsf;,cleation with a gentleman who was well acquainted tsK 4 this trade, and he would ask the Government ep,, c tber it was not a fact that large steam-vessels were f ~4 % . e rl in this trade, which were capable of carrying 'ail,4oo to 2,000 slaves, and whichcould outstrip any Vel l 7 /3 X ships ? He had another remark to make, ta o ' h ' e n was, that this was another recommenda tia to throw good money rfcer bad, of which they , r 7 l already done enough. The Right Hon. Gentleman It Lc' that the people of this country would not consent t, e ,; )11 mere motives of Economy, to see the British rquad th-4 withdrawn from the African coast. Now, what was reason why they refused t o p rotect the free-grown [Nue 0f sugar, but mo tives of economy, and was not ~g at th e mo ti v e that led to the ahandonment of the V li cY of excluding stave-grown sugar? The Right tie • ° n • Gentleman admitted that the sq uadron was ineffec e. Why, t h e n, maintain i t ? When slavery was taelished in our dominions they should have seen that tllll treaties for its abolition by other nations were kept, t i n ereas the fact was, they were violatin g those treaties °II Y. The Right lion. Gentleman said th at British ;venturers would embark in this t rade if the s q uadron .ilt t withdrawn, but he doubted that. The best, the et st effective, the most rel i g ious wa y to p ut down sl avery, w as to interdict slave - gro wn p roduce in our , - "erketse British Guiana, and some other colonies, were ra pidly re turning to a state of ba rbarism under the new 'TeY The Son. Member fo r L y nn would bear him 1 :„'"' in that statement. He thought that this squadron 0 2 totally ineffective for the purposes for which it was Veed there, and as the House would do good by its re -cnial, he most cordially supported the motion. Sir GEORGE PECIIELL said he trusted the House Ivould not agree to our tak in g a p osition which would ° ,w, ar us as to the'pesition which this nation enjoyed.— ( ) lie had ever endeavoured to promote the effi- Z c ney of this service. In 1819 when the Noble Lord forward with a motion for an address to the Crown Compel foreign nations to fulfil their treaties, he never listened with greater satisfaction. Their records would 11 1 1 °W that the sq uadron was not ineffective. It might have been more effective. As to largo st eamers being', em ployed in the slave traf fic, biddin g de j'ece t the fleet, he thoug ht that there was no steamer "'lrger than the Cyclors• which was on that station. Althoneh their efforts had been in some measure unsuc c°3sfal, yet they had performed a very large amount of R o ad. He hoped , the refore, that the squadron would he °entinued. The naval authorities, by sending out old vessels, had not duly support ed the Noble Lord in ear ing out the treaties of this country. Some 11211. Gentleman supported the motion on economical principles, but if so, they ought to have suggested t his motion upon the motion of the Honourable atember for the West Riding (Mr. Cobden) ; L ot that he wished to re duce the fleet on the 'past of Africa, but rather on the coast of Greece, and mc nne oth e r stations.—(Oh.) What did Mr. Hutton say before the Committee of the House of Lords? Was it not this, that the moment we withdre w our fleet from tho 4 frican coast, his ships would be driven into the sea? 4.l terefare, if on that ground our squadron were taken ilwa Y, it would be no economy at all, for piracy, robbery, and every species of iniquity would arise immediately coon the disappearance of the squadron.—(Hear, hear.) Then what other means were there for putting down this traffic? Treaties with the native chiefs? But to zi o d tlee them to believe that they were sincere , the y "ould show thst we PIIKOOiTeO were sincere ky our fleet there. It was said, that 'all the naval offi-e-s examined before t‘le Committee of the House of Lords .cre against the 11 , et being continued there. Eut were not Sir C. Suiiierland. C,prain Matson, and Captain Denman opposed to it? It wai said else, that it was impossible efferrually to blockade 1.300 iniks of c net. intersected by inland commu,iication; but there were no more in reality than about 200 miles of coast. They had not withdrawn blockades in former times because they were in some measure unsuccessful, and why should they on this? Ile thought the fleet ought to be made more effective, and should then , f le oppose the motion. Mr. C. ANSTEY said that t'e lion. Gentleman who had just sat down bad addressed himself to the interest of the class to which he belonged, but that was not the matter more immediately in question, to which ho would endeavour to bring the House back; but if like him (Sir G. Pechell) he had turned his attention to one point, and one point alone, he should vote for the motion of the lion. Member for Gateshead. It was a painful situation for gallant officers to promote the pacification of Africa by malting war on all the re-t cf the world. These gallant officers had Lefore thorn one or two alterna tives, either t do nothing, or ti violate the law of na tions by enchaveuring to carry out this Utopian objr , ct. They must sacrifice every other consideration to carry into effect that particular treaty. Achcordingldiy,sti the Noble Lord the Fort. ig n S,:erseary, had n guished himself in c.triyieg out this treaty, had fund it necessary to have some of his uefions revok( d. The lion. Captain Denman and other efficers employed in that service, had, upon their return borne, been crippled by actions in consequence of their efforts t..) carry out their instructions.--(Cries of " No, no.") The Hon. Captain Denman, in his evidence berore the Com mittee of the House of Lords, stated that it was his duty to obey the commands g iven to him for the suppression of the slave trade o n the coast of Africa; bu . that gal lant officer was of opinion that the means employed were not efficient for that purpose, and the only means in his opinion by which this country could hope Btoill put do out wn the slave trade, woul d bo b y a Legislative , the line of which he gave, and the object of which would be a thorough blockade of the coast of Africa. But what did the Legislature proceed to do on this part of the question? It proposed to pass a Bill which would give indemnity to all offenders fir the past, and impose re sponsibility for the future. The lion. and Gallant Member (Sir G. Pechell) had adverted to a treaty with the black chiefs for the suppression of the slave trade; but that experiment was tried on a former occasion, and the treaty proved abortive, and was but a mere mode of evasion of the question.—(Hear, hear.) lie held in his hand the form of one of those treaties, and he found at the f.iot of that treaty these words:—" That in con sideration of the signature attached at the foot of this treaty, the Queen of England pledges herself to Almighty God, to wive unto the chief one pair of boots, one shirt, and, of course, fire-arms, together with some other insignificant preseats."—(Laughter.) Now that WAS one of the modes of evasion resorted to on this question. What was the course which it was now pro posed to pursue? Were they to address the Qin ea? No. But they were to ask other powers to concur with them in putting dawn this traffic. Now what was the result of all their proceedings on this question? Why they had found that 38,041 slaves were decimated in their efforts to put down this traffic. At 10 per cent., 38,041 slaves had actually died. He found, on the other hand, according to Mr. Cliff's evidence, the slave trade, prior to 1831, was conducted by the Brazilians with great humanity, and the mortality never exceeded 3 per cent. Notwithstanding the " bead money" offered for the suppression of this traffic, a vast number of slaves had been landed in Brazils, and their price had actually fallen in the Brazilian market. Now what was the evi dence of Lord Howden? He (Me . . Anstey) should like to know whether the Government of this country were to go on now with measures which were found to be fruitless, or whether they were to take other measures. Should they recall their squadron, seeing that it had greatly a ggravated the horrors of the slave trade? An Hon. MEMBER—No. Mr. ANSTEY.—Humanity says" No," and economy says "Yes." Economy demanded it, but humanity forbade it. Ile thought they could reconcile both principles, and that by the abolition of the Sugar Duties Act they would do more to suppress the traffic in slavery than by any other means which they had yet had recourse to. Sir R. INGLIS considered that the opinions given by Sir George Pechell on this subject —opinions which the Hon. Member who had just sat down had spoken lightly of —were, as those of an experienced naval officer, to be regarded as of importance by the House. He (Sir Robert Inglis) thought that the treaties with the black chiefs, if followed up, would have proved of the greatest value in the endeavours to suppress this most abhorent traffic, and of the greatest good. Last year they were told by an Hon. Member in that House who was anxious for the withdrawal of the squadron from the coast of Africa, that it coat this country 500,0001. a year to maintain it. Another Member made it 700,0001.; and another Hon. Member, not content with that, had increased the cost to 1,000,000/. Now, the expense of maintaining the blockading squadron in 1846.7 was not 500,0001, nor 700,0001., but only 300,0001., acd that including wea r and tear of vessels, and all other matters. And, in reference to a reduction 'of the expense, the utmost it could be reduced to would be, according to evidence, in the proportion which twelve ships boar to twenty-four. Were they prepared, for such a saving as that, to abandon their efforts to sup press a traffic like this, which had decimated humanity? Were they prepared to pursue such a course? Since the equipments, the number of captures had been im portant. In the ten years from 1830 the number of .lavers taken were not less than if his memory served him correctly; and of the 656 vessels taken, 450 were captured close to the coast, a fact which led al experienced naval officer to advise, as the most effectual means of suppressing the traffic, that they should keep an efficient squadron on the coasting service. They should consider this question in reference to the progress of civilisation, the feelings of humanity, and the progress and character c f Christianity.-- ( s Hear, hear.) Ile, could not but advert, and ho did so with much satisfaction, to a petition which had been presented to the House on this subject by the Noble Lord at the head of her Ma jesty's Government. And here he must do this Noble Lord the justice to say that he had always raised his voice against slavery. The petition to which lie (Sir It. Inglis) had alluded, as presented by the Noble Lord, was from the liberated slaves at Sierra Leone, and prayed the House not to consent to the withdrawal of the British squadron from the coast of Africa, and to adopt effectual means for the suppression of the slave trade. The petitioners went further, and prayed the House to examine some of themselves on the subject; and from the manner in which they expressed them selves in their petition, he' (Sir R. Inglis) considered that the House could not have better witnesses. They stated in their petition that commerce was carried onhi ih n the settlement by native industry; and the appeal wc they made ought not, in his o p inion, to be disregarded by the House.—(hear, hear.) They owed it not merely to the race cf Africans, but to their own subjects, not to afford the slightest pretence for giving farther encou ragement to the slave trade. In the Committee whence the report had issued favourable to the withdrawal, no less than six resolutions, proposed by different Members, were either carried or rejected by the casting vote of the chairman, Mr. Hutt, and it, therefore, not unnatu rally, was called Mr. Mutt's committee. In his heart he believed it was inconsistent with the cause of humanity. inconsistent with the spirit of civilisation in Africa, and inconsistent with the national honour, to withdraw the spuadron from the coast of Africa, and therefore, he implored the House, and especially those friends with whom it was usually his happiness, to co-operate, to consider well the consequences of the motion before they suffered themselves to be deluded into a consent to its support. Lord HARRY VANE said, after considerable hesita tion he had come to the conclusion of supporting the motion. Before he proceeded to state the grounds on whiCh he intended giving his vote to the Hon. Member for Gateshead, he felt desirous of making one or two remarks in reference to certain statements made by the Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade and the lion. Baronet the Member for the University of Oxford. Both those Hon. Gentlemen evidently desired to impress the House with the conviction that the deli berations of the Committee were valid by the casting vote of the chairman, but in point of fact there were two other members of the Committee absent on the principal division, and as their opinions were known to coincide with those of the chairman, the resolutions were in reality carried not b y one casting vote, but by three votes. It was not on the ground of economy alone that be ;advocated the withdrawal of the squadron, and in this respect he differed from the lion. Member for Gateshead. He took into consideration the long series of years this country had endeavoured to effect a suppression of the slave rade. He recollected the efforts made by various Ministers at the head of Government with the same vi ew, and he saw thee how unsuccessful those efforts had in suppressing Under Captain Denma n the partial success slave traffic was not attributable to the presence of the squa dron, but arose from and was coincident with the co operation of the Brazilian Government. At one -time there were 40, 000 slaves imported into Cuba, but there were now very few. The decrease, however, he had the authority of General Alvez for stating, arose from the co-operation of the authorities. He did not believe, nor did he contend that they could dispense ton with the maintenance of some por tion of the squad on the coast of Africa and Serra Leo slae ne. tra If they desired tshould o succeed in suppressing the Che t d blockade the eastern and western coasts of Africa. If they were prepared to make efforts on so extensive a scale, they would then be right in continuing their squadron. It was because he believed they could not carry on a scale of sufficient magnitude, and that it was not in their power to continue effective measures for a length of time, that he thought it desirable to make the alteration suggested. The question of providing a sub stitute for the squadron was one of great difficulty, but he thought that it should not be urged as an argument against removing an expensive force, whose presence had not been productive of anticipated good results in the suppression of the slave trade. Having been a mem ber of the Committee, laud feeling anxious to justify the vote he intended giving, as well as bein g desirous of correcting certain stat e m ent s made by the Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade, he had tres passed on the time of the House, and he concluded lay expressing his intention of giving a reluctant vote in favour of the motion. Mr. CARDWELL regretted the course which the Noble Lord had indicated his intention of pursuing. The question they had to deci d e was , should they or should they not make a surrender of the policy which they had so long pursued, with a view to the suppression of the slave trade. He deceived himself very much if a fair analysis of the proceedings on which the present motion should rest would not stand in favourable con trast with many of the statements in connexion with the subject recently made public, and with some of the speeches delivered that evening. They were told that the eperMielle of the sqnsdrea bscl been futile. If it rnE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 20, 1850 was meant by such a statement that the squadron had ral opinion was in favour of the maintenance of a Ibeen of little, it any good, then he could show, from in- i quadron, but the most responsible commanders of sta disputable bestirsee, that the repression of the traffic in ewes were against ia Sir Charles Hotheen did not say staves had been considerable, and it the withdr ewitl of the that it should be withdrawn unconditionally, hat he was squadron were advecated. on the one of economy, of opinion that no force could suppreas it, and that a they had the autherity of eminent val ofilie rs for substetute for it must be got, namely, by a treaty with saying l i e tht the squadron should be maintained some- Brazil, to introduce free labour into that country. He wbere. looked for the effictive suppression of the (Mr. Gladstone) would ask, how would Sir Charles trade more to the influence of civilis:ation, and Hotham vote were he there?—(Heete, heir.) on is to the introduction of the Christian relieion into the opinion he would vote for his Hon. Friend'e mot — slave-producing countries. But suppression to a een- (No, no) —for he was averse to the continuence of the assemble extent had already taken place. From the squedron to suppress slavery, and believed that the north of Africa to within five degrees of the equator treaty he referred to was the only remcdy.—(Hear.) there was net a shadow of the slave trade. Captain With regard to the speech of the Right Hon. GetiVeMan Dunlop's evidence went to show that the presence of whicht of the Board of Trade, he helievei it was ono the squadron had a most beneficial effect at the Gat would have been made any time during the last leiios ; and he believed, from the statement of tear gin- ten years, or the next ten Years to come.—(A laugh.) el e man, that if they possessed the power of inflicting Bat the qu estion was, were they to make the maintena nce cha-tisement on the s lave-traffilsers, the repression of that squadroon the coast of Africa as one of the would b e be still (Treater. The slave trade had been put stieutions of thenountry?—(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") dais in Cuba, " but if they withdrew the naval force the He believed, also, that unfair obervations had been price of slaves would fall, and then they would have made on the Committee that sat on the subject. It made a renewal of the slave trade in Cuba. Such, at least, no report, it was true, because they did not wieh to elicit was the opinion of Mr. Kennedy, the Consul at Haven- the opinions of the House. The Right lion. Gentleman sae ; and it was fully established by other authorities. talked one, being purchased on the coast uf Africa, The l ie traffic, he acknowledged, had not been re- and of thousand five hundred miles of exist being pressed in Brazil. The native Brazilians discouraged clear, but the evidence of Sir Charles Hothatn waa, that the traffic, and the Portuguese capitali-ts carried it. on, ellen slavery disappeared in one portion, it a,epeared in being in communication with the colonies on the west another; so that it was utterly impossible to suppress it coast of Africa. So far as tie Brazils was concerned alt eeether. Well, thenywhat had the squadron done ? there was the testimony o f a commercial get- Had it extinguished the trade, or was it making progress ;demean, resident there, to t he effect that were the towards that object?—(Cries of ••' Question ") That was squadron withdrawn from the coast of Africa great the question before the House, and the only one o n which facilities would be affor ded for the extension of the tLey were called on to decide. If he could, lir his , slave traffic; which he had no doubt would be taken ad- see any pro old continue gress made by it; the continuance of the e squad vantage of, as in his opinion the extension of that traffic ion, he w b vaito look entirely depended on the withdrawal of the means at for it. The squh adrslave on, no trade doubt, was a ti taxnuancea o fabout ten present used for the suppres sion. That was the testimony per cent. on te . Its cone it of a commercial gentlem an resident in the Brazils, who more expensive; but it did not seriously restrain its would not be led awaytoe who must be held to in Brazil ? ' Was that the case, or was it not ? In know what was the nature of the facts connected with it. 1828, according to ; the entries of purchases of slaves, The effect of the present system of repression had ;but he t in the books of an estate, which he had seen, to raise the price of slaves both in Cuba and Brazils; but he found, that while in ',1841 a slave was worth 315 once the squadron withdrawn, additional facilities would milreas, in 1844 he was worth from 700 to 800, in the be given to the transmission, and consequently there market of Brazil. The squadron became more effective would be a reduction in the price of them. It was, how- since 1844, and what was now the price of slaves ? In ever, said, that the measures which had been taken had 1844, 700 or 800 milreas were paid, but in 1837 the price been the means of increasing the sufferings consequent was reduced to less than one-half, and in 1848 to 350. upon the slave trade; but on examining into the evidence That, be it recollected, was owing to a larger supply.— of those s e to to speak on that subject he found (Hear.) Now, let them look at the returns made by the reverse to be the case.—(Hear.) He had looked into the Foreign-office with regard to the complaints of the debates which had previously taken place on the sub- their. cruizers. In 1840 these captures amounted to ject,but on referring to the eviden ce of Sir Charles Hotham, six per cent. of the entire nu mber ; in 1841, 13 p er he found that the mortality under the present system cent. ; in 1842, 13 per cent. ;in 1843, five per cent. in o nly amounted to about five per cent., which was a great in 1844, nine p er cent. ; in 1845, 10 per reduction as compared with former periods. So far 1546, four per cent. ; and in 1847, eight per cent. from the present measures not having the desired effect, Therefore, in tho ret se papers, there while the was evidenc e country wof no he found from the admirals , both on the eastern and progress, but a rogression, d as western coast of Africa, that the slave trade bad been improving the squadron at a vast cost, the slavers had greatly put a stop to; and what was most gratifying been at work likewise, and a larger proportion passed was, that while the admirals of this country were taking through their hands during the last few years than for steps for the suppression of slavery on that coast, the any previous period. He did not object to the French and American admirals did their best to second experiment made, but he believed it was not the their efforts. Finding all this to be the case he could ordination of Providence that one nation was not should not, as an honest man , come do wn to that House and regulate the morals of another. It say that the House should take on itself the responsibi- depart from that rule, for they an were ind tot cons ally tant n failed risk of lity of abolishing a system wh i c h had been attended quarrelling with other powers; d had i with such beneficial effects. Much had been said about effecting their object. The Noble Lord the Foreign Se the disparity of opinion between the two Committees cretary was now in office nearly twenty years, and, no which had sat on the subject; but in 1848, it must be doubt, no man could have done more than he did to ad remembered, that they had not the evidence of Sir vance the cause of humanity; he entered t in 183 termed 6 into Charles Hotham, otherwise he had no doubt that Lord a treaty with Spain; in 1839 they got wha was enabled Courtenay would have come to a different conclusion the equipment clause ; in 1840 they were t been o from what he did. Sir Char les Hotham ex p ressly said capture slavers south of the line, and treaties had in his evidence that, were they to withdraw the squadron entered into with France and America, had been up for for the purpose of trading in slaves, and it would nally gained, but where were they ?—(Loud cries of be impossible to calculate the consequences which " Hear, hear.") Th e y h a d poaitively fallen back from would ensue. As he, therefor e, was connected with a the position which they held some years ago. Then borough which was intimately connected in respect of it was suggested that pensions should be given to the trade with the western coast of Africa, he would ask the chiefs, so as to mak e u p f o r their interests in capturing House whether it would be judicious to withdraw their slaves ; but it shottld be recollected that the burdens on squadron from that coast, and leave the trade carried on the people of England were already most serious.— with it, and all other interests connected with it totally (Hear.) He was not in the main he was dimin i sh, but was complained of; but, in respect of that , he must sa y the continuance of the squadron that he could observed in the House, in respect of public rather increased, human wretchedness on the coast of expenditure, this remarkable circumstance. When any- Africa.—(Cheers.) The miseries of men were often one wanted anything carried out which was conceived promoted by those who sought to relieve them, and to be of public utility, did the Government object to it on what had already happened ought not tO prevent them the ground of its being too expensive, immediately there from acting according to the circumstances of the times was a cry raised that they were a set of twopenny half- in which they lived. He regretted much that he had not penny fellows, and were not deserving of their places, the work of Sir Thomas Buxton with him, but it was because they refused what was conceived so great a boon; well known that while the mortality in the middle pas but then, again, when this money so expeiaded came to sage, daring the regulation of the British slave trade appear in the estimates, notwithstanding all the clamour many years a increase go, was state the tid by Mr. JeMr. nkinson to be three e which had been raised for havi n g it voted originally, per cent., it din me of Wilberforce those same parties turned round and accused the Ge- 10 per cent.; it increased to 24 per cent.; and was, pre vernment of lavish and profuse expenditure.—(Hear.) vious to 1840, 33 per cent. During the former period the Upon the whole, therefore, considering this motion to av era g e number of slaves was three slaves to every two aim at a reversal' of a policy which he considered sound, tons; in 1847 and 1848 it increased nearly eight to two he would give it a decided negative.—(Hear, hear.) tone. Now, under such circumstances, there must be a Captain PELHAM said that while they were told mortality of a most dreadful description, and accordingly that the efforts in putting down the slave trade had the increase had been over 10 per cent. What did that failed, he was prepared to show that it would be in- mean? Why this, that between 8,000 and 9,000 slaves jurious - not only to the interests of Africa, but also to were sacrificed on the middle passage, while they only the commercial interests of this country, were the pre- liberated, at the highest point, some 5,000 or 6,000, thus seat motion adopted. He considered that the opinion increasing the mass of human suffering, instead of re of Sir Charles Hotham was perfectly misunderstood.— lieving it. He recollected that when a w n argument was us (Cries of " Divide " by gentle men o pp osite.) No one some time since advanced, that piracy as as iniquito could deny that there were fewer slaves imported now as the slave trade, that the reply of the Noble Lord from the Brazils and Cuba than there formerly was, and was—as it was not looked at SO by other nations, it what had led to that result was the operations of the did not become the British Government to be the squadron on the African coast. That of itself, then, was first to carry such a measure into effect. Ile also a sufficient reason why it ought not to be withdrawn. thought there ought to be a right belief among all At one time there was no less than 94,000 slaves im- nations of our sincerity of performing whatever we pro ported annually into the Brazil?, but now the traffic was pose to them, but ha feared that such a belief did not almost put a stop to. It was said that the f wee ern- exist. When he heard allusions made by the Right ployed had done nothing to put down the slave trade, Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Labouchere), of the assist but that was contradicted by the evidence of all those ance and sympathy evinced by French and American who had been on the coast. There was one thousand officers towards our flag, he was f ,rced to ask, was there miles of coast upon which the slave trade was almost any grounds for an inference that that sympathy was done away with, and that of itself showed that the ef- directed towards our Government ? He should say no, feet of the squadron had not been altogether unsuccess- and he believed such MS the general opinion of the ful. The Honourable withdrawal Gentleman then went House and of the country. And he was borne out in on to contend that the iof the squadron from his opinion by the evidence of Sir Charles Hothatn— the coast of Africa at the present time would be attended (Hear, hear)—who states that an Amecan officer, who with the worst consequences, but was so interrupted by had assisted our men when in an en g agement in a slave cries for a division that he was but indistinctly heard in ship, had been tried by his country, subjected to a the gallery. heavy mulct, and there never afterwards was known one Colonel THOMPSON said there was one Point on American officer to imitete his theseexple. The Right which he was anxious to set himself right with the Hon. Gentleman then alluded to neral belief of all Rouse—that point was, that free trade had nothing to nations of the insincerity of the British Government, on do with this question. His Honourable Friends around the occasion of the passing of the s ug ar Duties Act, and him were in perfect amity with Hon. Gentlemen oppo- said, that as they had not acted up to their professed site onehis occasion in that respect. The principle of and understood Actoninten free trade had always consisted iu denying the policy justice, repeal that He should next allude to the of giving any portion of the community a monopoly, opinions of the great weight of naval o fibers, our in upon the ground that no clas s of p ersons should pus- which he fully concurred, namely, , and should therefore, in seas any peculiar advantage over the community in squadron should be doubled on the coast of Africa, general. The measure his lion. Friend was now advo- though Sir Charles Hotham thinks tbaS even such that an ea ting was free trade in stolen pocket-handkerchiefs.— augmentation would serer be sufficient to suppress (Laughter.) That the Free-traders had never main - iniquitous trade, and also that it could be better effecte h more d tamed. The argument which had a lwa y s been su p er- b y steam-vessels, as sailing-vessels cannot watc eminently urged against the traffic in slaves was its than forty miles of the coast, when steam-vessels could, immorality, and that it was a crime — an d no commercial b y their expeditious sailing, much more easily put bt the question had any bearing upon it wh atsoever. He was slave trade down. Next it would be necessary to oai of th n afraid there existed a s t ron g desire, a heat and lusting, the right of search and of stopping, for many e as it had been described, on the part of some to see the ships of Brazil and Cuba frequently hoisted the Sar sinews mid limbs of the African employed in profitable dinian and Portuguese flag, and thus carried on their industry, t\ot throughout the African continent only, iniquitous trade, without the interruption of our squad but elsewhere English commerce. of course, taking rem There were different opinions as to the mode by its share.—(Hear , hear.) Bad they not seen an emi- w hich a stop could be put to it, some though t by punish. nent literary character once net honour to literature de- ing the whole crew, others by the death of the captain, daring that the beneficent whip was the only thing for and others by three of the chief men; ethers by trans ainmyprmisoenaarnaenat ; r bauatt,hohrietywould ask, had negroes and Irishmen? —(Laughter.) The principle now started against all men who had much to lose was P tl7a rt t a this—that all property of right belonged to him who could interfere with ships of another nation? He ti°n house o r could make the ablest use of it. That was the principle answered, " No," and thought that such opinions by which it on which the slave trade was now argued for. Let them were merely . chimerical. And, should engagements see what the argument would come to. It would he use were into for this object, he asked of what applied at some future time to the whole commercial use were they, when Spain and Brazil violate on the interests of England. finite was no man so Pure who next day the treaties they entered into the day before? was not willing to slip in with this most sweeping argu- It had been asserted that the treaties entered into in the merit. Fancy every one denied of ability making the year 1830 were still extant, and that the emancipation of best possible use of all they possesseil—fency that be - the slaves taken since %hut period could be demanded Lord Aberdeen, when in that country, merit to be used by the men they met in the street he - but, he would ask, was such a demand ever made ? Did tween that House and Charing-cross. They might de pend upon it there was in this question that which deeply such a fact, make such a demand ? No ; and it was, concerned them, and all who stood by honesty, and who therefore, useless to speak of the existence of those slave hoped to pass through the world with a good repute- treaties, for, feeble as Brazil is, it is well known that it and cognizant of tiou. Our ancestors were not so far wrong as some would not be judicious or wise to go to war with her. thought them to be when they imagined that one of the Again, he looked upon the building of marten() towers, greatest glories of this country was the stern opposition and the entering into treaties with black chiefs, as a mere it had always made against the carrying on that most means of blinding the people of this co untr y . He cer g dishonoured man- tainly should say that, while he fou nd filth with the monstrous iniquity, which had so 100 out any particular system for the suppression of this Mr. GLADSTONE rose to address the House amid trade. He apprehended that the British Government loud cries of "Divide, divide," and proceeded to say he would use every exertion for the suppression of was reluctant the question should go to a division in the slave trade ; but he should at the same time which he should vote for the motion of his Hon. Friend sa y , that full j ustice had not been done to Cuba without stating ,as briefly as he was able some of the by the allusion of his Houourable Friend (Mr. Cardwell), grounds on which he rested his decision. He did not for he could not account for the magic power by which disguise from himself the serious consequences of that our ships seized no ships but those of Cuba, and that on vote, but in his view of the case the question was not the African coast. He considered that those slave ships whether the squadron should or should not .be removed might, for aught he knew, belong to Brazil as well as to from the coast of Africa, but whether it was not right to Cuba. On the whole, he s hould say that he did not remove those preliminaries which were now a bar to a believe that our squadrons tended in any way to suppress further .discussion of their engagements, or in other this trade, but that, on the contrary, Brazil t o with words the compacts they had entered into on the sub- an eye of , national jealousy on such interference; and ject with foreign countries. The proper spirit of the pitch of indignation if, sixty he would appeal to the sense of the House whether the motion made by his Hon. Friend was to vindicate that question, for he would venture to say that matters could years ago, when we carried jealousy of England would not be roused to the highest not be more imperfect, or more open to objection, than on the slave trade, any foreign shp would interfere with their present treaties for keeping a squadron on the coast us? He thought it a visionary idea to think of putting of Africa. The motion only referred, in point of fact, down the slave trade by the combination of the English to the treaty with France, by which each country bound and French. He hoped, and " his wish was the father itself to keep 26 cruisers on that coast, for the suppression of his thought," that Brazil would in time put down this of slavery, but after the lapse of a number of years system, and he augured this f rom the knowled g e that France changed her mind, and appe aled to the Bri- t h er e w as a very inluential and most numerous anti-sla fish Government te relieve her from her engagements. very party in that country. lie knew that there was a The Government acceded, unwisely in his opinion and t i me instead of 26 cruisers France only keeps 12 vessels on of the British Government for the suppression of this when many of that country required the assistance the coast to exclude her own subjects from engaging in iniquitous trade, and that would be much more efficient the traffic. That was a state of things so preposterous than tho energy eif the people• the liberality of public that he though his Hon. Friend was justified in bringing money, or the valour of our officers.—(Hear.) forward his motion.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Glad- Lord JOHN RUSSELL --I own, Sir, that lam more s tone) had investigated tho subject with great care, and than I ever re anxious member that this House, when it aga inst every prepossession of his mind , against wh ich he was required to strugg le and overcome ; but he l.- c)mes to a division upon this subject, shell have a due lieved the time was c ome when some chan g e should be sense of its importance. In importance it is quite in state - made. It was n ot that he thou g ht less of the horrors of possible for any one to exiggerate, or even to the slave trade, for he believed it by far the blackest crime that ever tainted Christian or Pagan, ag e it was merely 1 . . not on that ground, therefore, he should support the of it, lit me state to the House that at the beginning of 'n its full extent. But to give some definite idea motion of his Hon. Friend. The peculiarities of the this century England, in all her colonies, carried on and , t case were, that those who now condemned it ad- permitted the slave trade—thet the other powers of Ea - present tiered to it as long as they could with a tenacious fidelity; rope aho had colonies likewise sanctioned slavery, and but from lessons of experience had felt comeelled to wherever and whenever they could carry on the slave change their former opinions. They were told in trade they likewise permitted and sanctioned it. In the 1840, by Sir Thomas Buxton, that it was curse of the time that hes elapsed from the beginning impossible to put an end to it in consequence of the present century, we have seen the Parliament of of the great gains connected with the traffic. The England abolish the slave trade. We have seen England, present system was condemned condemned the Noble Lord at the in the treaty of Paris, make stipulations with all the na ead of the Government, it was condemned by the Anti- tions of Europe declaring their condemnation of tho slave head Society, and with respect to merchants, they were trade—we have seen slavery itself abolished by an Act told that the maintenance of legitimate commerce re- of the English Parliament—% e ally have seenthe slave otrade q uired this squadron sh ould be kept, but all he could abolished practically, effectu, andrely, bby learn was, that that body in general were opposed to it. France and the United Stateend we have teen ;rhea as to the naval profession, he believed their gene- slavery itself lately abolished by France an, by Denmark.—(Hear, hear.) Let me add to this that in Africa, where the etrongholds of the slave trade were erected, we have seen that criminal traffic put an end to, and the peaceful arts, and industry, and trade, flourishing by those who were the accomplices of this horrible traffic. I should be sorry to see the end of the triumphs of humanity which I have thus shortly traced, that we should be aske I to begin the course of another half century by retracing our steps—(Cheers)—by going back from all that has hitherto been done, by proclaim ing to the world by this first step that we no longer will take those measures against the slave trade which we have hitherto taken, and that we have no substitutes to put in their place, and thereby spreading discourage ment in every part of the world among those, who, ad miring our example, feeling the truth of those Christian maxims we hive professed, and wishing practically to act in the same manner, have been endeavouring each in their own country to spread the same maxims and to abolish this horrible crime.— Hear.) To speak only of that country to which thn Right lion. Gentleman last alluded—namely, Brazil, he has stated that my Noble Friend near me gave evidence that there was a party in Brazil springing up hostile to the slave trade. Since my Noble Friend g-ave that evidence we have had let .r accounts from Brazil, and these later accounts, I am sorry to say, represent that the party is so utterly extinct, their lan guage being., that they fear England is about to cease from her efforts; and if England ceases to take the lead in this grand work, it will be a hopeless task for them to attempt to raise their hands against this iniquity. Now, in the beginning of the Right lion. Gentleman" speech, he gave, I think, a not very correct account of the object and effect of this measure. He stated that it was necessary, as a first step in the matter, to consider what office we were hereafter to do to relieve ourselves from the obligation of the treaty with France. Now, if we re lieve ourselves from our obligations with France as well as America, every gentleman will remember that that treaty, more from the repugnance felt by France, and in consequence of the objections, made in the French popular assembly to allowing the right of search to the English cruisers, and as a substitute for that right of search the French Government agreed to keep cruisers of their own on the coast of Africa to pre vent the French flag being desecrated by that trade. By the same treaty they gave the right of search, although not what is technically called the right of search. And well, although the number of vessels has been diminished, most faithfully had that treaty been observed by France, but I will not pretend to say that either France, or the United States, or any country in the world has the same feeling that we have, not only hitherto professed, but sincerely entertain. No doubt, if you ask France to be relieved of the obligation you will be relieved.—(Hear, hear.) But, what then, will be your situation? Will you be free to act as you think proper? When you are once relieved from this, every slaver may hoist the French flag. You cannot, accord ing to your stipulations with France, presume to search those vessels whether they are pirates or bona fide the national vessels of France. The flags of Preece and the United States will then be used to cover the slave trade, and Great Britain having renounced those treaties, will have no means to prevent its being carried on; there fore, it is not merely the giving ourselves the power of ac ting as we think fit, because it would follow as the very first step that the flags of France and the United States would be used to cover the slave trade. But it was not worth the while of the Right Hon. Gentleman to put forward this excuse, because the lion. Gentleman who brought forward the motion, and the Hon. Gentle man who followed him, do not disguise that, although this is a preliminary modem, their object is to re store the slave trade. Sir, it is that motion that I re sist—it is that I ask the. House not to sanction, and in asking that I do not prevent any consideration of any substitute which may appear to the Government or to Hon. Members to secure a better suppression of the slave trade. But what Ido denounce, and what I ask the House not to consent to is, simply a reversal of all our policy—that you will not take the means to put down the slave trade by a marine force and that you will take no other means. The Right Hon. Gentleman referred to the language used by the Government; but whether that language was too strong or not, the object we had in view was to call upon the House and the country not to relinquish the means of suppressing it, but to induce the Parliament to sanction additional means. There is all the difference in the world between using an argument of this kind—between saying you must give up the task, and saying the means are not suf ficient. We heard the speech of an Hon. Gentleman on the subject of education a few nights ago. The Hon. Gentleman spoke of the increase of crime, of the number of criminals, pointed out the inefficiency of the means of repression, police, courts of criminal justice, and gaols, and said it was necessary to reinforce these means of repression by means of education as a means of preventing and checking crime. The Honourable Gentleman did not mean to say that the means were useless—he did that crime was going on in spite of police, gaols, and criminal courts, and therefore that we are to abolish these things. That is just the difference in the argu ment. He said our means of repressing crime were not sufficient—take the means of education. Now, I said in 1839, our means are not sufficient; let us endeavour by an expedition to civilize Africa, to obtain additional means of .cutting off the evil at its very roots. The Right Hon. Gentleman spoke of means, which made him think that the plan of repression at present in force is not sufficient. In that respect I think the Right lion. Gentleman has made a statement which, if I go through it carefully, would hardly be justified by the documents before the House. Sir, I have no reason to think that if we were set free, and that the trale was left to itself, the Brazilian Government would be able so to regulate the middle passage as to prevent these horrors. If we look at the evidence that has been laid before the House with regard to the probable effects of this change. we have very little hopes that it will be satisfactory. One of the grounds on which the motion has been advocated is that of humanity—namely, that the slave squadron aggravates the evils of the passage. Sir Charles llotham, whose opi nion is looked to with great respect, says directly the reverse. He rays, if the trade is free small capitalists will enter into it, and they will not provide the neces sary means of accommodation, and therefore the horrors of the trade will be necessarily increased. Captain Matson uses the very same argument. So much for the state of the slave trade in Brazil—the natural conse quence of the exceeding cheapness of slaves. The witness went on to say that when "a smaller and a worse class of vessels for the slave trade was used the passage was longer. Formerly the vessels had three decks—the slaves wore crowded in the hold, and the air was only admitted by the centre opening. Now, though the ves sels were equally crowded, there was only one deck." So that the opinions of Sir Charles Hotham and Captain Matson were in direct contradiction of the grounds of the motion, that the decrease in the mortality of the slaves on the passage would be greater if we set the trade in slaves free than under the present system. — (Hear.) Another argument was the economy or saving in the expense. But, Sir, I think the Hon. Members who have produced this argument have failed in it completely. The Honourable Member who introduced the motion staid the cost was about 700,000/. or it might he nearer 800,0001. Now if a change were to be made. Sir C. Hotham says we must still keep 10 or 12 vessels on the coast—we now keep 26; so the expense would be about half of the present .xpease, as nearly half of the number of vessels would be required. The Right Honourable Gentleman said he would not give up our whole means of repressing the slave trade ; for if we found Portugal and Spain willing to suppress the slave trade, we should, if required, be ready to aid them. How are we to aid them? By our mere countenance and concurrence? That would be of very little use ; but if we gave assistance by our marines or our soldiers we must incur expense—the very object which this motion pro fesses to put an end to. It would be impossible to be lieve either that you would diminish the sufferings of the passage, or much diminish the present expenditure, un less you abandoned the African coast altogether, and gave up the protection of your commerce —a proceeding which, in all other parts of the world, you think to be necessary. That, lam persuaded, you never will do ; for if there is any commerce in the world that requires the protection of the British naval force it is the commerce that has sprung up on the coast of Africa, where the slave trade once ex isted, and where it cannot thrive unless it receives the protection of barracoons. Sir C. Hotham rays if the squadron were withdrawn, the lives of British subjects would not be safe. Passion and revenge would be exhibited in consequence of the steps we had previously taken to suppress the slave trade, and he ad mits that great suffering and mischief must be the result. So, therefore, it was absolutely necessary to keep up some force on the coast for the protection of life and commerce. If, then, the main reasons for the present motion have been proved to fail, I ask the House to consider what the evils would be if the motion were adopted. I will state the opinion of Sir C. Hotham as a an authority to be relied o n. He says—" If you wit • draw the naval force without any substitute, such a pro ceeding would not redound to the honour and dignity of the country. I should regret if it were withdrawn and nothing substituted in its place. Sir C. Hotham may be right or wrong—but I say it is a fair question to e ffisubstitute finely n for a r e xtinguishing the sla ve trade—but that is a totally differ entplaee present b e s f y o s r te e in Parliament. anothersy system, t • Yrzummoey question to the question before the House, namely, whether we shall destroy the present means of checking the slave trade without substituting anything in its place.—(Hear, hear.) The first objection, then, is that it would be highly in jurious to the honour of th© country. In the next place, I think it would be impossible, without a greater force than we now keep up, to preserve from the slave trade those parts of Africa which we have wrested from the slave dealers. In those parts where commerce is now established attempts would be made—violently made—to extend it to those places where it has been destroyed.—(Hear, hear.) And seeing the largo profits that are to be gained by the slave trade, many African chiefs who have renounced that trade, seeing the indit farence of England on the subject, would again revive the trade, and you would have to protect those places at a considerable expense. The next objection it, that an unrestrictel slave trade will destroy the civilization of Africa—it would destroy all hope of introducing civili zation and Christianity; for with the slave trade I say it will be impossible to accomplish any such objects. — (Hear, hear.) In the next place, consider what effect an immense importation of slaves int) the Brazils would have. How large the importation might be may be es timated from what Lord Howden states, that slaves costing 5,0001. in Africa would sell for 20,000/. in the Brazils, being a profit of 500 . per cent. on the original value. If there are such gains t o be made, it is impo.- sible not to see that a number of small capitalists would eater into this trade and continue until they reduced the profits to the ordinary profits of trade, and that by this means an immense 'lumber of slaves would be im ported into the Brazils. And what would be the effect on the Brazils? There you find vast tracts of unculti vated land, lit for sugar; in Trinidad especially acme of the richest parts are uncultivated; those parts would immediately be cultivated for the purpose of producing sugar. Immense suffering would follow on this. The Hon. Member said he would put the question on this basic, would the mass of human misery be increased or diminished by the adoption of the motion? I say, no doubt the result must be that the mass of human misery would be immensely increased in Africa, and also in the Brazils, by the introduction of a larger number of slaves into the Brazils. What is the speculation going on at this moment in the Brazils? It is that, seeing a Com mittee has sat on this question, and that the opinion cf the Committee leaned to the abandonment of all further efforts to suppress the slave trade, they believe there is a probability that they soon will be in a condition to cul tivate sugar so cheaply that no country in the world will be able to furnish sugar to this country except the Brazils. It is the opinion of all who are asked on the subject, that an immense importation of slaves into Brazil would produce the certain result of an immense increase in the production of sugar. This brings us to another question. which the Right Honourable Gentlemen rightly touched upon; for though connected with the question of hu manity, it is also connected with our own interests—l mean the effect which it would have on the West Indies, if this increased competition occurred. lam not now going to argue the question of the sugar duties of 1815. I will admit, by the abolition of slavery in 1833, and the abolition of the prohibitory duty of 1842, that we did place the West India Islands at great disadvan tage.—(llear.) I am, however, happy to see the opinion stated on both occasions borne out—that they would bo able to bear those shocks, and to found their sugar cniti vation on a new and a better basis. I have not been entirely disappointed; on the contrary, I observe the produce of sugar in Jamaica, Guiana, and other islands, in 1847 and 1848, is greater than in 1845 and 1846, and the produce of 1849, I believe, is greater than of 1848. If that is the case, it shows that the Africans in the West India Islands are induced to labour fur less wages, and that successful industry is carried on in the islands at this moment. But, after the blows—l admit they were blows—the West Indies have sustained, they would be in the utmost danger if any great advantage was given to Brazil by the admission of a great number of slaves; and if the additional produce were brought against the produce of our own islands—(Hear) --I think that would be more than the West India Islands would be able to bear—they could not stand this competition. That of itself would be a great misfortune, not only as regards our own interest, but it would be a misfortune as regards the question of slave labour.—(Hear, hear.) These, then, are three conclusive reasons against the motion proposed to the House. In the first place, there would be the increased activity of the slave trade; in the se cond the destruction of the trade on the coast of Africa; and, third, the expensive and ruinous competition of slave labour with free labour of the West India Isliflads. But the Right Honourable Gentleman asks what it is we would propose to do in going on with the preseat system, and the Right Hon. Gentleman says the speech of my Right Hon. Friend would do for any other time and occasion. I contend that, by the existing system, we have made progress on the coast of Africa towards the destruction of the slave trade. That the slave trade has aet been utterly suppressed by such means I readily admit; but the greater the progress we make in civilising Africa, the greater the area from which the slave trade is excluded. We have thereby a less evil to cope with, and the more manageable the evil becomes. Another argument is, that we have not sufficient means at com mand. Thr Committee obje ct to force; they object to the destruction of the barracoons and the forced libera tion of the slaves. These means, they say, are not to be thought of as a remedy for the present evil. I think, Sir, the destruction of the barracoons, and the occu pation of forts on the coast of Africa, are the principal means of suppressing the slave trade. All the evidence of the dispatches we received prove that such is the case, and I expect the utmost advantage from those means. The Hon. Gentleman has alluded to the opinion of other nations with respect to our policy in relation to the slave trade. I have stated that great advantages were obtained at the beginning, and my opinion is if you were to address the different powers of Europe, you would find their opinion more enlightened on the subject than when we began, in 1815 to enforce our own opinions; we have seen other powers cheerfully co operate with us in suppressing the slave trade—France and the United States of America have suppressed the slave trade, and, were those great powers to join with us in using not unfriendly—but firm language to Spain and the Brasile, I am persuaded the happiest effects would be produced on these Governments. That they would despise the warning I am not ready to believe. If they took no measures for the repression of the slave trade, then you would have again to consider well the question—what progress you have made—whether the slave trade would be more repressed in the next year than in the present? What are the means that remain? That there are means I think no one will deny. That they are means to be at once condemned none but the Members that composed the majority of the Com mittee would decide; for that Committee having been appointed on those terms—to consider the best means to adopt for the extinction of the slave trade, seemed to have no other thought than how to condemn and repro bate every means by which the slave trade could be ex tinguished. and to leave alive the only means by which it could be nourished and increased. —(Hear, hear.) But as to the last answer to the question, what can we do for the repression of the slave trade? Sir, I for one will not despond. I believe that despondency in a great cause is of itself a main cause of failure.—(Year, hear.) I can imagine a man saying in 1814 that for three ceuturies the Algerines had car ried on their plans of plunder, piracy, robbery, and captivity of the Christians. and having lasted for three centuries. no one would be wild, Utopian, or insane enough to expect their termination; and yet the very next year saw a termination of this practice of three centuries and the system of carrying Christians into cap tivity put an end to and abolished.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I believe if this cause is good—if it has enlisted gradually the nations of the world io its favour—if there remain only Spain, in one of her colonies, and the empire of Brazil still carrying on this trade, I believe that the cause is anything but hopeless.—(hear.) I believe that nothing would destroy it but the want of that moral courage which the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite dis played—l believe that nothing but being faint-hearted on that subject, and saying that we are unequal to cope with this evil, will finally give it a permanent sway and supremacy.—(Hear, hear.) But there are other motives which may influence this House in coming to a decision upon this question. We have been blessed with great mercies during the past year. We have more than once had to thank Almighty God for the dis pensation of those mercies. I own, Sir, it appears to me that if we are now to say that the trade in man shall be unlimited, and the cruel traffic against which England for nearly fifty years has been working, with the efforts of her greatest statesmen , and the hands of her Lest and bravest sailors, is now to bo allowed to go free and Ur:- controlled, I believe that we shall no longer have a right to expect these asercies. I believe that in the high, the Christian, and moral character of the nation is to be found the main source and secret of her strength. I think that if this night you we re to direct your Foreign Minister to go with his dastardly message t.) France—if we give up this holy work of mercy—if we are no longer permitted to take a lead in the c h a m p ionshi p against the curse and crime of slavery, we can no longer venture to expect those blessings which, of God's providence, we enjoy.(Cheers.) Lord R. GROSVENOR wished to state the reason for the painful vote which he intended to give. During the twenty-eight years he had the honour of a seat in that House, it was his good fortune never, until that day, to differ on any essential point of policy from his Noble Friend below him. His reason for voting for the re sent motion was this—that if it were carried, it would have the effect of preventing this country from continu ing to attempt the moral government of the world on principles which, according to his judgment and under standing, were condemned by the moral Governor of the Universe in every page of his works. Mr. HUTT, in reply, said that it ought not to bo taken far granted that he bad no substitute to propose, because he had not offered one on that occasion. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the motion ... ... 154 Against it . . ..• ... 232 Majority against the motion ... —7B INTRAMURAL INTERMENTS. Lord DUDLEY STUART moved an address for a return, stating, for each of the last ten years, the number of interments that have taken place in each cathedral, church, chapel, churchyard, chapelyard, cemetery, or other place of interment within fifteen miles of St. Paul's Cathedral; distinguishing (if practicable) whether made in vaults or otherwise. After a brief discussion, the motion was negatived on a division. (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House if Commas.) TUESDAY, MARCH 19. SLAVE TRADE. Motion made, and Question put, " That an humble Ad dress be presented to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty will be pleased to direct that negotiations be forthwith entered into for the purpose of releasing this Country from all treaty engagements with Foreign States, fJr maintaining armed vessels on the coast of Africa to suppress the traffic "n slaves." The House divided:— MINORITY —AYES, 154. Frewen, C. H. Kuntz, G. F. Fuller, A. E. Naas,Lord Galway, Viscount Newry, VisCoUnt Gaskell, J. M. Ossulston, Lord Gladstone, W. E. Packe, G. W. Gooch, E. S. Palmer, Robert Gore, W. R. 0. Pllkington, James Greene, John Plowden, W. H. Grosvenor, 1 4 2 rd R. Portal, Melville Gwyn, Hower Prime, Richard Hall, Sir B. Rendlesham, Lord II allyburt on, Lord Renton, J. C. Halsey, T. P. Rushout, Captain Hamilton, J. H. Salwen Colonel llastie, Alexander Sandars, George liencage, G. H. Scholcrield, William Henry, Alexander Seynser, 11. K. Herbert, 11. A. St bthorp, Colonel Ilervey, Lord A. Simeon, John Heyworth, L. Smith, John B. Hildyard, IL C. Smyth, J. G. Hildyard, T. B. T. Smythe, George Hodgson, W. N. Smollett, A. Hornby, John Sotheron, T. IL S. Hudson, G. Stafferd, Augustus Hume, Joseph Stephenson, Robert Jackson, William Stuart, Lord budley Jocelyn, Viscount Stuart, H. Jolllife, Sir W. G. Stuart, J. Keating, Robert Sturt, H. G. Ker, Richard Sullivan, Michael King, P. J. Tancred, H. W. Knight, F. W. Taylor, T. E. Knox, Colonel Thesiger, Sir F. Langston, J. H. Thicknesse, Ralph Lennox,:Lord A. Thompson, Aldermall Lennox, Lord G. IL Trelawny, J. S. Leslie, C. P. Trevor, G. Lockhart, W. Tyrell, - Sir J. Lowther, Colonel Vane, Lord H. Mandeville, Viscount Verner, Sir W. Mangles, R. D. Waddington, H. S. Manners, Lord G. Walmsley, Sir J. Manners, Lord J. Walsh, Sir J. B. March, Earl of Walter. John Masterman, John Wegg-Prosser,r. Maxwell, Hon. J. P. Wood. W. P. Ileum, Sir H. Wortley. J. B. Miles, William Milner, W. M. MIMS. Molesworth, Sir W. Hutt, William . Mowatt, Francis Bail's, H. J. Mundy. William Aglionby, 11. A.: Aaldock, E. H. Archdall, Captain Bagot, William Baldwin, C. B. Bankes, George Beresford, William Berkeley, Grantley Best, John Boldero, 11. G. Bouvvrie, E. P. Bramston, T. W. Bright, John Broadley, 11. Bulkeley, Sir R. B. Buller, sir J. Y. Burroughes, 11. N. Cabbell, B. B. Carew, W. P. Castlererv;h, Vis. Cavendish, G. 11. Cayley, Edward S. Charteris, Francis Chatterton, Colonel Childers, J. W. Christopher, R. Cobbold, John C. Cobden, Richard Cocks, T. Colebrooke, Sir T. Coles, H. R. Colvile, C. R. Darner, Colonel Deedes,lN. Denison, J. E. Dick. Quintin Duckworth, Sir J. Duff, George S. Duncan, Viscount Duncan, George Duncombe, A. Duncombe, 0. Dundas, Ge orge Du Pre, C. G. East, Sir J. B. Ellis, John Estcourt, J. B. B. Evelyn, W. J. Ferrer, James Fitzroy, Henry Fordyce, A. 1). Forester, G. C. Fox, S. L. MAJORITY—NOES, 232. Abdy. Sir T. N. Freestun, Colonel Paget, Lord A.' Acland, Sir T. (D. French, F. Paget, Lord C. Adair, R. Shafto Goddard, A. L. Paget, Lord G. Adderley, C. B. Gordon, Admiral Pakington, Sir J. Anderson, Arthur Grace, 0. D. Palmer, Roundel( Anson, Colonel Greenall, Gilbert Palmerston, Via. Armstrong, Sir A. Grey, Sir G. Parker. John Armstrong, R. B. Grosvenor, Earl Pechell, Sir G. Arundel, Earl of Hamner, Sir J. Peel, Sir Robert Ashley, Lord Harcourt, G. G. Peel, Frederick Bagshaw, John Hardcastle, J. A. Pelham, D. A Bailey, Joseph Harris, Richard Perfect, R. Baines, M. T. Hastie, Archibald Pigott, Frond* Baring, H. B. Batchell, John Pinney, W. Baring, Sir F. T. Hawes, B. Plumptre, J. P. Barnard, E. G. Hayter, W. G. Power, Dr. Bellew, R. M. Headlam, T. E. Power, Nicholas Berkeley, Admiral Heald, James Pusey, Philip Berkeley, C. L. Heathcoat, John Bowdon, Colonel Bernal, Ralph Herbert, Sidney Reid, Colonel Birch, Sir ThomaS Heywood, James 'lepton, G. W. J. Blackall, S. W. Hobhouse, Sir John Reynolds, John Blair, Stephen Hobhouse, T. B. Ricardo, J. L. Blake, M. J. Hodges, T. L. Ricardo, Osman Blakemore, R. Hogg, Sir J. W. Rich, Henry Blandford, Marquis Holland, Robert Robartes, T. J. Booth, Sir It. G. Hood, Sir A. Romilly, Colonel Bowles, Admiral Howard, Lord E. Romilly, Sir John BoyleVolenel Howard, C. W. Rumbold, C. E. Brand, Thomas Howard, J. K. Russell, Lord John Brocklehurst, J.' Howard, E. G. Russell, Edward S. Brockman, E. D. Howard, P. H. Russell, F. C. H. Brotherton, J. Inglis, Sir R. Sandarll,4ol l ePh Brown, Humphrey Jermyn, Earl Scully, Francis Browne, R. D. Jervis, Sir John Seymour, Lord Banbury, EH. Johnstone, Sir J. Shell, R. L. Buxton, Sir E. Jones, Captain Shelburne, Earl et Campbell, W. F. Keppel, G. T. Sheridan, R.B. Cardwell. Edward Kershaw, James Smith, Vernon Carter, John B. Labouchere, lieltrY Smith, A. J. Cavendish, C.;C. Lacy, 11. N. Somerville. Sir W. Cavendish, W. G. Lascelles, W. S. Spooner, Richard Chaplin, W. J. Lemon, Sir Charles Stanley, B. H. Chichester, Lord J. Lennard, T. B. Stanton, W. 11. Christy, Samuel Lewis, Sir T. Strickland, Sir G. Clay, James Lewis, G. C. Stuart, Lord J. Clerk Sir George Lindsay, Colonel Talbot, J. B. Cole, 11. A. Littleton, E. It. Tennent, R. J. Collins, W. Loch, James Thompson, Colonel Corry, 11. • Lygon, General Thornely, Thomas Cowan, Charles Mackie. John Towneley, John Cowper, W. F. Mackinnon, W. Townley, R. G. Craig, Sir W. U. M'Nagaten, Sir E. Townshend, Capt. Currie, Henry M'Cullag„h, W. T. Tufnell, 11. Dawson, T. V. MtGregor, John Turner, George D'Eyncourt, T. Mahon, O'Gorman Verney, sir li. Dodd, George Marshall, J. G. Tesey, T. Douglas, Sir C. Marshall, William Villiers, Charles Duff, James Martin, J. Wall, C. B. Duke, Sir J. Martin, C. W. Walpole, Spencer Duncuft, John Matheson, Colonel Watkins, Colonel D un d a s, Admiral Motile, Fox Wawn,.. T. Dundas, Sir David Melg - und, Viscount Wellesley, Lord C. Dunne, Colonel Miles, Philip W.S. Westhead, J. P. Ebrington, Viscount Milnes, R. M. Willcox, Brodie Edwards. 11. Milton, Viscount 'Williams, John Ellice, Edward Mitchell, T. A. Willyams, H. Elliot, John E. Moffatt, George Williamson, Sir H. Enfield, Lord Moore, George 11. Wilson, James Evans, Sir Do Lacy Morison, Sif,W. Wilson, Matthew Evans, J. Morris, David Wodelionse, E. Evans, William Mostyn, E. M. Wood, Sir Charles Fagan, William Di ulgrave, Earl Wyld, James Fergus, Jehn liorreys, Lord Wyvill, Marmadate Ferguson, Colonel O'Connell, Maurice Filmer, Sir E. O'Connell, M. J. Fitzwilliam, G. W. Ogle, S. C. Forster, M. Ord, W. Fertescue. Chichester Owen, Sir J MIMIC lIM, lArd Marcus G, ay, R. W. TO THE SECRETARY OF THE BRADFORD REFORM ASSOCIATION. Sir,—On Monday the 18th, the Chancellor of the Exchequer took a step into the right, by admitting the principle of ad valorem taxation, or something as near to it as convenient, into the levying of the Stamp Duties. The value of an admission of this nature is much greater than the mere present amount of the changes induced. In the course of the evening an amusing scene was presented, by the zealous agreement of all parties of Irishmen, in representing the utter inutility and undesirableness of giving anybody (for to that length it seemed to go) the suffrage in Ireland. It was stated nemine contradicente, that a" voter in Ireland was so beset by the landlords on one side and the priests on the other,—by those who, as Mr. Sheil naïvely expressed it, threatened him with loss of substance in this world or pro.. mised him reward in the next,—that the Member for Youghal rounded off the whole into a declaration that the only remedy would be the disfranchisement of Ireland. This was being sorely delivered into the hands of those who saw an intermediate remedy in the Ballot. And notice was consequently taken of the facts, for the purpose of being used again on Mr. Maurice O'Connell's promised motion for the intro duction of the ballot in Ireland, in the Committee on Elections (Ireland) Bill. At a late hour the Member for Sunderland asked the Government what their intentions were on the subject of returning the duty on bricks to those who have lately paid it; and made something very like a speech on the occasion, though contrary to the regu lations of the House. The Member for Sunderland is no great authority in political economy, and will probably find the Government hold out against his demand. It is not at all for the interest of the re ducers of taxation, to hold out that the Chancellor of the Exchequer shall not be allowed to reduce a tax, unless he can also make up his mind to refund the receipts of six months previous. The real fact all the time being, that when a tax is taken off, the amount is not deducted from the price by the holders of the article, till they have sold their stocks on hand ; and in the same manner when a tax is laid on, the price is not instantly raised, but waits till the holders of the articles have disposed of the quantity which was previously in their warehouses un taxed. Scarcely anybody but must have heard the assertion, that when a tax was taken off, for instance, leather, there was no reduction in the price of shoes ; that is to say, there was not the instantaneous reduc tion they expected to the amount of the tax. Whence wiseacres were found inferring that there was no use in taking off taxes at all ; there existing a decree of nature, by which the consumer was doomed to pay always the same, and consequently the tax might as well be there for the be nefit of the tax-eaters as not. On all which kind of subjects, the Corn-law agitation has happily made us wiser than our forefathers ; though the iden tical fallacy described still holds its ground as a stock argument on the Protectionist benches, where the belief is as firm a s with their grandsires, that there is no use in taking off tax on Corn or Tea, because a greedy foreigner stands by to put the amount into his pocket without let or hindrance from power human or divine. All of which is foolish enough, to cause surprise even where it is. But it serves very well to prevent the equally dark on the manufacturing side, from trying to remove the two-and-a-half per cent. duty on foreign corn, which they pay as quietly as they would buy a pennyworth of gingerbread for their child that asked for it. On Tuesday the motion of Mr. Hutt for removing the African squadron was negatived by 232 against 154, after a debate conducted with great spirit on b o th sides. One of the most effective advocat es against the motion, was the Member for Live r p oo r j a curious evidence of the change of times. The Prime Minister put forth the strength which he keeps for occasions that demand it. Sir Robert Peel did not speak ; but voted with the Government. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, AN OLD REFORMER. London, 20th March, 1850. PIRATES. On the motion of Mr. HUME. returns were ordered of the names and tonnage of any British vessels, with the names of their respective Commanders, and of the n ames of any British subjects that ha ve beon either captured, attacked, plundered, or in any way molested, by either Malay or llyak pirates, on the coast of Borneo, or elsewhere, from the 15th day of August, 1839, to the 15th day of August, 1849, inclusive; specifying date and place of each case of such capture, attack, plunder, or molestation. On the motion of Mr. WOOD, Mr. Herrick' was added to the Select Committee on oaths of Members, in the place of Mr. Disraeli. The reports of the resolutions upon the Stamp Duties and Drainage Advances were brought up, and leave given to bring in Bills founded th ereon . The Factories Bill was read the second time. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a Quarter -past Two o'clock. Mr. Loch had an interview with Earl Granville yesterday. COTTON SEED.—Some little time since an impor tation took place from one of the ports of the United States of America cf a mall quantity of cotton-seed, which was noticed on account of its being a novel ar ticle of importation from abroad. A vessel, now arrived from .New Orleans with a cargo of cotton and American provisions, has brought 34 casks of the cotton-seed, and this importation being a so much greater extent, and tending to prove the continuance of importations of this important description of seed, is, for whatever purpose it m ay be intended to serve, of more than ordinary interest. [ADVERTISEMENT.] —Twenty Ulcers on the Legs cured by llollowav's Ointment and Pills. — Extract of a letter from 0. B. Knoc ker, dated Mount Gambia, South Australia, July 7, 1849. To Professor Holloway. Sir,—A case has just come under my observation in which the efficacy of your Ointment and Pills has been fully proved. A man of the name of Joshua Smith bad upwards of twenty ulcers on his shins, which were so difficult to cure that almost every remedy had been applied without any good effect. Your Pills and Ointment were then resorted to, and in about six weeks he was completely cured, and scarcely a mark is now to be seen .— Sold by all druggists, and at Professor Holloway's Establish , ment, 244, Strand, L ondon.: TuE M AEIEE SOC lET T.—This society, established for the equipment, maintenance, and instruction of die tressed buys for the Royal Navy, the Indian Navy, and merchant service, held its anniversary last evening at the London Tavern. The Earl of Romney pr esided. The sixty-five boys educated by the society were introd uced in the cours e o f th e eve ning, and the b est compliment that can be paid them is to observe that we have seldom seen sixty-five youths whom the enemies of their country would less choose to meet. After it had been stated that the Admiralty had, during the past year, taken twenty 1 boys frcm the society, the result of the festival was au. nounced to be a contribut ion of 5001. The musi ca l at . rangements of the evening were under the directi on o f Mr. Gauge, assisted b y Master Sm ith, Mr. C. Kenny, Mr. Turner, and Mr. F. Smith. Mr. Iliggi was an fficieut toastmaster PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS.