The Sun. — London, England, 1850-04-24 00:00:00

0,-Ifv& 414.. et ft 4, 4. - 4,• 44i 41 SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. (THIS DAY.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly after Twelve o'clock, MUNTZ presented petitions from Bolton and Roehdale in favour of the Ten Hours Bill; also four petitions from Birmingham against the punishment of death. Mr. BROTHERTON presented petitions from Ips wich and other ➢laces against licences to beer-houses. Lord J. STUART presented several petitions from different parts of Scotland against Sunday labour in the Post-office. Sir WILLIAM VERNER presented a petition from a place in the county of Down against Post-office la bour on Sundays. Mr. WILSON PATTEN presented a similar peti tion from Altrim, iil Lancashire. Mr. GREENALL presented a petition from a place in Devonshire against tire Secular E 'tication Bill. Mr. SOTHEItON presented a petiti.n from the Archee]conry of North Wilts against the Bill for legalising marriage with a deceased wife's sister. Mr. HENLEY presented a petition frofn a place in Oxfordshire, praying that the Hou,e would nut pass a Bill for winding up the National Land Scheme. Viscount EBRINGTON presented a petition from Plymouth praying for the abolition of capital punish ments: JUVENILE OFFENDERS BILL. On the order of the day being read for the second reading of this Bill, Mr. M. MILNES, after presenting a petition from the Philanthropic Association in favour a the Bill, prc ceedel today he had been long led to consider the dreadful state of juvenile offenders in this country, and the cost and inefficacy of the means used f cm time to time to bring about their reformation. The Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department preseettd a petition the other night to the House, signed by 50 chaplains , of the principal gaols in the United Kingdom, in which they stated that a large amount of juvenile crime might be prevented by the establishment of industrial settee's, and an effective system of instruction. They referred in that petition to an observation cf Mr. Baron Alderson, to the eff_et that the expenses incurred in trying juvenile cffenders greatly exceeded the probable cost of an effet tive n form, and, moreover, that their reform would cut off one of the most prolific sources of crime. The English law was peculiarly distinguished by its severity in punishing the offences of children. In other countries they were treated with more leniency by the law. By the old civil law, new extant, no child was punished under ten and a halt years old, and between that age and fourteen they were punished in a less degree than in the case of adults. According to the code of Napoleon, juvenile of fenders under sixteen were tett to the jurisdiction cf a magistrate who was tosay wht titer they:were actuated by di,csrnment, and if actuated by cite( rnmeet they were am-lilted t f toe crime, and either sent back to the it pa rents or taut to the House of Correction, where they were educated and treieed unt I they reached the age cf 21. • In England, however, sere children were treated with great cruelty, fur the commission of offences which in other countries would malce them rather objects of re lic sympathy and charity. From a return which had just been laid en the table of the House, it appeared that in 1848 as many as 10,747 ehildren bad been summarily convicted, and 3,276 sent for trial. Out of the 'Umber undergoing imprisonment in the same y ear, 1,389 were und-r 12 years, 639 between 12 and fmrteen, and 6,710 between 14 and 17 years of age. Now if the effect of that imprisonment was to reform the children he would not have ventured to introduce the present Bill, but the Lets showed that nearly one-third of the whole number had been re•committed. In 1848 the single re commitments were 880 ; those who had been re committed twice amounted to 954; three times, 458; and four times, 675. Taking the average from 1838 to 1848 of the trials at the Middlesex Sessions, he found that the re-commitments amounted to above a third of the whole number. At the Pies ton House of Correction tho re-commitments were 56 per cent. cf the persons imprisoned. Some very interesting evidence was given upon this subject by a gentleman to whose researches and ability , they were considerably indebn d, namely, the Commis goner of toe Morning Chronicle, who held a meeting of some of the juvenile criminals in the metropolis, of whom he found that 5 I ad bean imprisoned twice, 3 three times, 4 four times, 2 eighteen times, 5 twenty times, 6 twenty-tour times, 1 twenty -five times, and a youth only nineteen years of age twenty-nine times. Mr. lluslitoe, the magistrate, t f Liverpool, also gave them an instance of the working of the system. In the case of three brothers, one twelve years of age, the other eine, and the last eight, the first of whom had been imprisoned twenty-fcur times, while the other two were still undergoing a term of imprisonment, a little attention to the subject would bring the House to the conclusion that the ex;sting system of treatirg these offenders inert en eel rather ti , an diminiehel crime. They were, in fact, brought up to thieving from their earliest clays .ts a profession, and they looked epee the chances of detection just as a soldier expected a wound in battle, or a medical man a patient; and therefore he held that children so ht. - ought up being look, d upon as responsible to the law was a philosophical absurdity. The very lingusge of these offenders proved that they were ignorant of the criminality of thieving, for the lodg ing -houses in which they taught their mal-practices they called " The School," while being engaged in thieving they called " week." It It as clear therefore, to a certain extent, they looked upon thieving as a justifiable occupation, and the system un der which they were treated when detection overtook them only served to confirm them in teat • opinion. So long ago as 1777-Dr. Dodd described the baneful iuflaence of their prison treatment; and, although they had had many amiable and philan thropic Secretaries of State, and persons like Mrs. Fry, exerting thccorelves to mitigate the evil, the system still continued as bad as ever. Under the present system the prison henna() the home of the adult criminals, and within its walls the juvenile offender was initiated in the perpetration of crime by the old offenders, and in many instances parties committed crime in order to obtain lodgings within prison walls. He contended that it was exceedingly difficult to give anything like a proper education or instruction to juve nile offenders in gads. Mr. Shepherd, of the Wakefield Gaol, bore his testimony to the incompatibility of im prisonment with education. He trusted he had now made out a case for an alteration of the law. He migh tsiay in addition that eat of 10,747 male and feinale children summarily convicted in 1848, 747 could neither read nor write, and only 235 could read and write well. By the Bill which he submitted to the House, he proposed that chil dren under 18 years of - age should be dealt with summarily by two justices or a police magistrate, without being com mitted to prison at O. Ile also proposed that no chill should receive eterpoial punishment above 14 years of age. He made those provisions because the Act cf 1847, which was a step in the same direction, had been productive of beneficial effects, and from that time the number of juvenile offenders had considerably decreased, especially in Edinburgh. His principal object in proposing these provisions was to make summary con viction, where it was necessary, of a character which would not contaminate the child's principles. The change which he proposed was to make parents enter into recognizeteces for the good be haviour of their children when they were found guilty of any offence; the parent was the person on whom punishment should rest if the child was to be punished at all, and the alte ration which he suggested was cot unsupported by pre cedent. The chaplain of Tothill-fields Prison stated, that the great number of the parents of juvenile of fenders were dotes t people, and that their chil dren were not unprov i ded with hoaies, but were generally led away by bad companions. This circum stance showed that by making parents eater into re cognixanees they would be induced to exert them selves to reform their children and to take better care of their morals. The Bill also provided Ca. the establishment of industrial schools, where juvenile offenders might be instructed and learnt some trade or business, and seeing the success which had attended some experiments cf the kind in this country, he thought there could be no valid objection to such institutions. In France industrial schools for young criminals bad been for some time in existence, and they had been productive of the most beneficial re sults. He found that the reformations effected by the Philanthropic Society, which was established in this metro polis for the reception of young persons convicted of crime, was 75 per cent. There was a similar institution at Warwiek, where the reformations effected had increased from 45 to 65 per cent. It might be said that such in stitutions would give a premium to crime, by re fleeing parents of all responsibility, but the same objection would apply to the present system of punishmeht, for a pare_ t had only to encourage his child in crime to get him transported, and thus taken off his hands. He did not, however, propose to take away the stigma of a prison, for the Bill required that a child should undergo a certain period of solitary imprisonment, with or without flogging, previous to entering a reformatory. asylum. He felt grateful to the House for the attention it had given to a subject dry in its details, taut in its results, aril in ex but impor tant a hope that this Bill would become law, he believed that he was stating the sentiments of the greatest por tion of the community.. lie would urge on the House the great nee e,slty of eaucating thoseluvenile offenders. —(Hear, hear.) It was a Christian - duty de volving upon the House. This Bill was really of so pacific a character that he trusted he should have the cordial support of Hon oura b le Members on all sides of the Douse, He believed, in conclusion, that this question was one of unusual importance, that it affected in a great degree the future peace of this em pire, and he bored it would receiv e f rom the !louse the consideration it deserved. Sir GEORGE GREY was not in the least disposed to treat with indifference the question b fore the !louse; nor did he think the House would ho indifferent to any practical measure on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) The Bill now before the House contemplated the extension of the summary jurisdiction possessed by magistrates with regard to juvenile offenders. That was nothing more nor less then to leave the Jaw pre cisely es it was under the Juvenile Offenders Act, introduced by his Honourable Friend the Member ler Prof twich (Sir John.Pakington). The Bill, secondly, proposed the adoption of the principle of the wirninal responsibility of parents; anti he (Sir George Grey) was not prepared to give such a latitude of power to the magistrates as was con- THE SUN, template 1 by that part of the Bill. The third object of the Bill was the establishment of county and district industrial schools in respect to juvenile of fender?. It however was of a different character; it proposed that two justices should have power to adju dicate in cases where parents instigated their children to the committal of crime, so that a man who urged his child to commit a murder would be liable to a trumpery fine, while the child would be tried for the capital offence, (Hear, hear.) The fact was the Hon. Gentleman who bad introduced the measure had mistaken the criminal responsibility of the parent for a pecuniary liability. These formed two distinct questions of a very different character, and this circum stance only showed the inoperative nature of the Bill. The remaining clauses were equally objectionable, Many of them were really extraordinary, if not dan gerous, while some were laughably ridiculous. No ma gistrate indeed could venture to put any of them in force. One of them came directly in contact with the Mutiny Act, and in not a few recpocts the provisions of the Bill would inflict great hardships on the juvenile offenders rather than benefit him or im prove his condition. With regard to the third object of the Bill, which related to the establishment of in dustrial schools, ho did not object to the principle of this part of the treasure in the abstract, but then the question was, would the Bill as it stood, lead to the realization of that principle. He was aft aid not, rhile if the principle were good, as no doubt it was, why confine the industrial schools to counties? Why should taey not be extended to towns?—(tiear, hear.) This point of the sutject, however, was net cf so pre: sing a nature as to justify the passing of this Bill, and though he agreed with the wel'- merited eulogiume which the Honourable Gentleman had passed upon the exertions of the Phi lanthropic Society, whose efforts were ever di rected to the reclamation of youthful offender?, he did not thick the Bill would tend to reduce the evil it was proposed to meet, if it were held out to the world that al juvenile offenders would be provided for, and he must therefore resist the :motion fir its second reading.— (Hear.) No later than yesterday he received a commu nication from the secretary to the Philanthropic Society, enclosing him a translated report to the French Republic on this very subject, and he felt bound to state that its conclusions were quite oposito to those he had just urged upon the attention of the House. With regard to the question of pecuniary responsibility on the part of the parent, he at once admitted that the principle was an admirable one • but here again the provisions of this Bill were highly objectionable, and most inoperative. To a certain extent this very prin• cinciple was already in force, but the Bill proposed that it should be extended to every case—an absolute impossibility. In a word, the whole ma chinery of the Bill was impracticable, and however laudable its object might be, or however admi call: its principle was, in many respects, he must give it his decided opposition.—(Hear, hear.) Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND rose to move that the Bill be read a second time tt at day six months ; but it was not his intention to make a speech in support of the amendment, as the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat dawn had anticipated every objection he could urge against the measure. In fast the Right Ilon. Bart. had taken his speech out of his lips— (fletr and a laugh)—end be should therefore content hl se f with imitating out one or two defacte in the measure which had most forcibly struck hire. From beginning to eed the Bill had been drawn up in a most careless manner. Its preamble stated that great evils resulted from the continual imprisonment of juvenile offenders, and yet one of the clauses distinctly provided that an offender after so many convictions should be li4blo to be imprisoned in what was celled an industrial school for seven years. Mr. M. 511LNES said the Hon. Baronet was in error, and was proceeding to explain when ho was call , .d to order. Sir G. STRICKLAND then proceeded to say that the Bill was full of imagir a:ion, and as a z atural cense quLnee, full of inconsistenetes.—(A laugh.) It aimed another blow at the palladium of British libLrty—trialby jury, and he was therefore surprised t) find on the back the name of an Hon. and Learned Gentleman, who must have bad ample opportunities, in his own time, of witressing the a !vantages which resulted to the country from the existence of this institution. He would venture to say that the present Bill was one of the most ludicrous pircei of legislation thlzt was ever brought before the House, for by its provisions any party might be tried, not More a magistrate, but in his servants' hall, before all his drunken servants--(Hear, bear)—for the Bill gave power to the magistrate to depute any one to try parties charged with criminal offenc”.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member concludtd by moving that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Mr. S. CRAWFORD seconded the amendment. Mr. SIMEON supported the second reading of the lie thought the course that had been adopted by the Honourable Baronet opposite (Sir G. Strickland) most inconsistent and totally uncalled for, if the mea sure introduced by his Honourable Friend the Mem b r fa. Pontefract was only rigltly considered. The principle cf the was one which would meet with the approlmtion of evrry msn who had given a due degree of attention to this important subject. The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Milnes) had showed beyond doubt that the pi eient state of the law with regard to this class of afenders was bad and mischievous in the highest degree. He (Mr. Simson) concurred in that opinion. Our ilea . - ment of this unfortunate data of the population was well described by one of our poets, who said— " Their infant minds, their infant years, Owed nothing to our care; Their minds neglected and their bodies t are." The Honourable Member went on to draw a contrast between the French prison of Mt Way and our prison at Parkhurst, unfavoura'Ae to the latter. The prisoners who went to Mettray went not to a prison, but to an agricultural colony; but the cffender who went to Park harst went directly to a p:ison. The fact of a boy hav ing been at Mettray was an inducement for his fellow men t') resreac him in after life; and it was no uncom mon thing in France for persons who had been trained at that colony to have placed over their shop signs the words " Educated at Mettray." Mr. HEADLAM would give his cordial assent to the broad principle involved in the Bill before the House, though be would not pledge himself to vote for alt its details. One of tie most important parts of the Bill was that which gave power to the magistrates t) make the latish or the parents liable fcr the mainterapce of the juvenile offenders while in the proposed reformatory asylums. He held in his hand the report which was made by several of the greatest men in France to the National Ascembly, in which they recommended the Legislature to establish industrial schoola, on the ground that, after ten years' experience, they had been, fully successful. Being of opinion that the present Bill would accomplish a great amount cf good, he should give it his decided support. air J. PAKINGTON gave the Hon. Member who introduced the Bill credit for his benevolent and praise worthy intentions, but he could not agree with him in the mode by which he proposed to carry those intentions into effect. The Bill would not only offer a premium on vice and dishonesty, but would saddle a large expense on the county rates; and he should therefore feel it his duty to vote f.ir the amendment. Colonel THOMPSON said he had looked over the report which was made by a Committee of the Na tional Assembly of France, and he could not find in is the mention of anything which at all approached to corporl punishment.—(lltar.) He was sorry when this species of punishment was losing its influence in the army that any one should propose its introduction into civil affairs. He believed that Napoleon would no more have thought of submitting a young French cfiicer to corporal punishment than he would have considered him fitted for service in a seraglio.—(Lsughter.) He remembered a captain cf her Majesty's guards telling him many years ago that he considered Vat Tyler the first of English reformers, though to be sure he was of a very rough sort.—(Loud laughter.) The rasantry of this country were a very sensitive class, stud if this species of punisbinent was to be put again into practice, he thought there would be an en d o f that wholesome compact which existed between the Pea santry and the aristocracy. Mr. TRELAWNY called upon: the House to give their serious attention to this important measure, which it was his intention to rapport. He, however, begged it to be and dtinncutt the lyunddeetrasir ofd that tßhilel. supported the prin ciple After a few words from Mr. RICE, Mr. M. MILNES, amidst considerable impatience and some confusion, essayed to reply, but the House seemedtn indisposed to hear him further, and he at length put . end to the noisy scene by stating that it was his inten tion to withdraw the Bill, an announcement that was received with lend cheers. The motion for the second reading was then nega!ived without a division, and the amendment agreed t^. VESTRIES AND VESTRY-CLERKS' BILL. This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on the 22d of May. AFFIRMATION BILL. Mr. PAGE WOOD, after presentirg a large number of petitions in favour of this Bill, proceeded to more its committal, observing that its principle had been twice affirmed by the House. The House perhaps vas not aware of it, but it was nevertheless a fact, that not only were Quakers, Moravians, and Separatists, relieved from taking an oath in courts of law, but any one who had ever belonged to these bodies also enjoyed the same privilege; and he could see no reason why the same con- Cession should not be extended to all parties who enter tained conscientious objections to the taking of an oath. Ile rested the second reading of the Bill on two grounds—first, the right that the F üblic had, in all case s, to have tie beat evidence that could be procured, and, se condly, on the extensive persecution that had prevailed against those who conscientiously refused to take an oath. The Hon. and Learned Member at some length referred to caee3 that had occurred, showing the evils and grievances that had taken place from not allowing parties to give evidence who would not t a k e an oath. The parties having a scruple about taking oath were liable to be committe d to prisonin the event of their refusing to do so in courts of justice; and they cou ld not sit on juries or hold most of the civil offices of the State without doing violence to their consciences. The presei t Bill relieved only the conscientious, and a man had only rased to say that he was a Moravian or a Qur.lier, and objected to take an oath, whenever h e might he called on to do so, and he would be relieied from the obligation, and the judge would allow him in such cases to substitute an athrrnation. He knew of a case in Honduras where a Di.thenting minister had been confin e d for a period of six weeks for refusin g to the an oath, and other per - sans in than colony were fined very considerable sums of money for the lame offence. Taking all those circumstances into consideration, he hoped the House would not object to thie Bill going into Conawiit..e. Mr. GOULI3UhiN opposed the motion that the House should go into Committee on this Bill. He main- LONDON, tained that a man engaging to speak the truth under the solemnity of an oath, and knowing that he would be punished here and hereafter in the event cf his perjuring himself, was more likely to give true evidence, in courts of justice, than a man who merely made an affirmation or a declaration. The Honour able and Darned Gentleman proposed to leave it to the option of the judge to decide whether a witness should be sworn or not, but such a practice would be at , tended with the greatest difficulties, and he thought would not further the ends of justice.—(Hear, hear.) The great majority of magistrates engaged in the administration of justice thought the taking of oaths was essential to the ascertaining of the truth, and that they would not be able to obtain from witnesses that precise state of facts which they would give under the imposition of an oath. The general tendency was not to adhere strictly to the facts when a person had simply to give a conversational account of anything which had taken place. He concluded by moving that the Bill be committed this day six month'. Mr. COCKBURN had made up his mind to support this Bill, though he believed the oath was one of the safeguards to the due administration of justice; but he supported the Bill, because he felt that many persons were precluded from giving evidence by the law as it now stood. Many persons professing particu'ar fsiths were already relieved from this obliga tion of taking an oath, and he put it to the Right Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down whether it would bo right to withstand that concession. Well, then, if these persons were enti tled to this privilege because they entertained conscien tious convictions against the taking of an outh, why should not the man, although he belonged to an other wet, who considered it opposed to his religious duty to take an oath, bet placed upon a similar footing? It was nonsense to tell him that a man might escape justice by putting evidence on cath against evidence given on affirmation, because the same argument told as much against the existing system as against the proposed change. But while he approved of this Bill, he thought it ought to be accomianied with a provision which should make it the duty cf a judge to satisfy himself that the party wishing to give his . evidence by way of affirmation really did enter'ain conscientious objections to the taking of an oath before he consented to absolve him from that obligation.—(Hear.) Mr. NEWDEGATE supported the amendment, and declared it lo be his conviction that; if this Bill passed, in many instances justice would be defeated by parties who were now restrained from giving fa!se evi dence by the sane ity of an oath. It was too ba-I that at the bidding of a nondescript section of fsociety to pass a law which could remove no diffi culty, but would have the effect of encouraging perjury. Sir EDWARD BUXTON would be glad to know from the Hou. Gentleman who had just eat down if he knew of any instance where evidence which hhal been given upon affirmation had afterwards turned out to be false? It was a singular fist that no such cases could be found; and as justice was o't n frustrated by the operation cf the existing law, le was at a loss to undt r stand why its ra form should be objected to: The House then divided, when there appeared— For going into Committee ... 129 Fur the amendment 14$ Majority ... —l9 The anneuncemtnt was received with loud cheers. The Bill was consequently thrown out. SMALL TENEMENTS RATING BILL. The amendments .to this Bill were considered and agreed to, titer a short discussion. Colonel BOYLE protected a petition from Frome against Church rates. COLLECTION OF FEES BY STAMPS (COURT OF CHANCERY). The House wert into Committee, and a resolution for founding a Bill for the collection of fees by stamp (Court of Chancery) was agreed to. NEW WRIT. On the motion of an Hon MEMBER a new writ was ordered to issue for Lymington, in the room of the Hon. G. T. Keppel, who had accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Six o'clock. KIDDERMINSTER ELECTION COMMITTEE.—(THIS DAY.) The Committee appointed to try de merits of the peti tion presented against the return of Mr. Best, for the borough t f Kidderminster, re-assembled at the usual hour this morning; Mr. Bouverie in tile astir. Mr. Sergeant KINGLAHE intimated at the silting of the Committee, that the case for the petitioners closed with yesterday's evidence. Mr. JAMES, Q.C., on the same side, summed up the evidence at some length, insisting that it sustained the allegation of the petitioners, that the election of Mr. Best was carried by bribery and treating. Mr. ALEXANDER afterwards addressed the Committee at equal length on behalf of the sitting Member, an nouncing that it was not his intention to call rebutting evidence, as he did not think the petitioners hrd esta blished any case against his client. The Committee, under these circumstances, intimated that they should adjourn till tc-morrow at two o'clock, when they would be prepared to give their decision. THE NATIONAL REFORM CON - FEREN CE.— (THIS DAY.) The cmierence met thi* morning at ten o'clock; Sir Joshua Walmsley, Esq., M.P., in the chair. The CHAIRMAN said the first business of the day would be to receive report, and suggestions from the provincial delegates presect ; and he should first call upon Mr. Picas, of Leicester, who said that the p. , litical tune of Leicester was, he was glad to say, perfectly healtt y.—(Flear, hear.) They ., had there a National Reform Association, a ith its officers aed working machinery, and he did not doubt but that, let an election come when it would, they would return two Radicals to I'ssriiament, as they ever had done.— (Cheers.) The principle which recommended the asso ciation to the men of Leicester was, that it laid down tl - at all men were equal in the sight of the law. This was a prirciple which lay at the root of all progress, whether they looked tt the rapid spread of the Christian religion, or to the social progress of the new world, as exemplified in California most particularly. In all the other objects of the association, whether of political or financial reform, the men of Leicester perfectly con curred, and would support with all their energies. Mr. ADAMS, of Derby, next addressed the conference. At Derby the committee was formed for working pur poses, and contained men of every shade of liberal opinion. In their neighbourhood they had farmed a National Land Association, and although circumstances had not yet beet very favourable, yet 400 shares had been taken up already. He also wished to say that tho Chartists of Derby, though they had not abandoned their claim for universal suffrage, had given their support most unhesitatingly to the National Reform Associa tion.—(Cheers.) Mr. M`Cinerer, of Dublin, said he was present at this conference to assure it of the support of the body of men with whom ho acn' in political mat ters. fie hoped that the Reformers of Eng land and Ireland would no longer be kept separete as they had been by the devices of their rulers, and he could assure the Conference that on better ac quaintauce they would fled that the Reformers of Ireland would ant with all their energy in support of this great national movement. Mr. EVAN Joins, of Merthyr, South Wales, next presented himself, to make known to the con ference the sentiments of the great manufacturing districts of Wales. They were warmly attached to this movement because they looked upon it as the canstitu tionel precursor of further political and constitiemal reforms. Tne fiat had gone forth against all political and ecclesiastical despotism, and it was impossible for Lord John Russell, with his present House of shams and hypocrisy, to attempt to arrest it. The town of Merthyr was under tho dominion c f four princely iron masters, who moved it as they chose; but he hoped that the present movement would in its course emanci pate them as well as others from that aristocratic thraldom. After Mr. Lewis and Mr. Harrison, delegates from Stroud, and Mr. Whitewell, of Peterborough, had ad dressed the meeting, Mr. TH WAITES , o f L on d on, t h oug h t t h at t h e great object of this conference was not t o i n d u l ge i n remar k s upon political qu , stions, but to give practical sugges tions for the operations c f the association. The great and first object was to increase the number of electors, and he thought by attention to the means which every district. had in it s p ower, b y care f ully superintend ing the registry, and selecting carefully the overseers in every parish, that object might, to a great extent, be secured. If he might be allowed to say so , h e th oug ht t h e constitution of the present as soc i at i on was t oo aristo cratic—there was not a sufficient leaven of working men in the council. He thought that if there were a confer. once of two years of all the m em b ers of the assoc i at i on when the council were re-elected, then new blood would be infused into it. Mr. CHARLES GILPIN wished to explain that there were on the council many men who were e lect e d, an d who had no other qualification than the payment of ono shilling per annum. After a few words from Mr. THWAITES, Mr. CoBDEN, M.P., then rose, amidst loud and re peated cheering, to address the conference. He pre sumed that the reason why the gentlemen whom ho saw before him had eotre up to London was, that they were dissatisfied with the doin gs of the House of Commons, and he should be a great hypocrite if he did not agree with them. Ho presumed they thought that by an extension of the Parliamentary representation they would secure a better House of Commons than the one they now had, and that not only he, but every Englishman who professed to be a lover of his country, would bo a hypocrite if he did not agree with them in that. .Again, he would presume alit as they called themselves a Financial Reform Association they considered that an ex tended suffrage would ensure a more economic& Ad ministration. The House of Commons well deserved any suspicion and mistrust with which the people regarded it, for he must say that the House of Commons was much more extravagant than the ministry itself, and it was upon this House that they would have to work, in this part of their operations. Well, then, how was this to be done ? What were the means to be employed ? It could only be done by long aed arduous work. No better maxim c o u ld b e f ound than Sir R. Pe e,',l cry which he raised for his own party—register, register. The whole political power in this country sprang from registration; that was a subject to which they must peY the greatest attention —the only political, moral, and constitutional means by w hi c h they could effect any object in this country was by attention to the register. Every man when he got home must at tend most earnestly and zealously to this subject,must form ass. Ciatlol33 fur this purpcse. If they did this, they would gain a great influence in Parliament. This was an object which could not be c fleeted by central efforts—local Efforts were the great means to WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 24, 1850. be applied. But it was not only in the boroughs that they roust work, the greatest opposition to the cause cf reform was only to be found emong the county Members, and he would give them instances of this. On Mr. Hume's motion 104 county Members voted against it and 13 for it, 5 of whom only were English Members. On Mr. Berkeley's motion fur the ballot 14 county Members votel for it and 82 against it. On his own motion 19 county Members voted for him and 99 against him. So they saw that it was the county Mena hers who stopped the way in improvements. He firmly believed that it was by acting upon the counties that the Anti-Corn-law League bad succeeded in its efforts. He (Mr. Cobden) had always said, during that agitation, that let them only get South Lancashire, the West Riding, and East Surrey,and they could carry the repeal of the corn-laws. Well they got them, and they carried the repeal. Let them, then, by means of the National Land Associations work upon the counties, and there could be no doubt that they would, in like manner, carry their objects. He (Mr. Cobden), was a vice-president of one of these associations, and he was happy to say that up to this time they had secured 340 votes, and were pre pared to lay out 10,000/. to secure more. Let them exert themselves to the utmost to s-cure the establishment of similar associations. Such Land Associations as these were the only ratans to interest the people in the ownership of property, and that was one of the greatest blessings he thought which could happen to the country, because it would tend to elevate them above those habits of wasteful extravagance and immorality which more than anything else would prevent the people from obtaining those political privileges to which they were entitled. The Goverement were taktng the matte: into their own hands with respect to Ireland, and, probably, Scotland would follow next session. The times were favourable for the efforts of this association ; only let it work well and it would soon grow fashionable, as the League had done. They could not go 'on much linger in this state. Look at the present state of parties in the House of Commons, ell broken up and shattered ; things must be changed, and great leaders of parties must look out of doors fur some party to cling to, and no question would be taken up but an alteration in the re presentation of the country. They had then a very cheering prospect before them—the country would be in• debted to them for their efforts. Let them go on in the same way as they had begun, and they would carry ano ther great reform, end it would be carried for ever with out the necessity cf ever looking back. The Hon. Gentleman then concluded amid loud cheering. Mr. CHARLES LIISEINGTON, M.P., rose to move the first resolution. H s apologised to the meeting fir not addressing the meeting in support of the resolution, as he was labouring under severe indisposition caught during his attention to his duties in the House:— " That, as the Freehold Land Societies have be-n proved to be powerful auxiliaries to the cause of Reform, by adding to the number cf voters in the county consti •tuencies, and as they are a nit ans of promoting thrifty and president habits among the wcrking classes, this conference is of opinion t 1 at they are worthy of the earnest support of every Reformer, and may be rasa greatly instrumental in promoting the Reform move ment." 111 r. LATI3IER, Lenart-fsrmer, of Hertfordshire, sup ported the resolution. He claimed for his fellow agricul turiste a share in the present movement. They had failed to get justice from the landlords, and they now turned to the people of England to obetin from them the protection and security which they desired for the secu rity of their capital. He ridiculed the idea of ever re turning to the old system. Mr. MACGREGOR, M.P., then addressed the meeting, assuring them that he should be ready to support the objects of the association in his piece in Parliament. This concluded fte morning sittings of the confe rence, which adjourned until two o'clock. The coefirenee resumed at two o'c'ock, Mr. Beggs, Vice-President, in the chair. Mr. REYNOLDS wished to take the sense of the meeting- upon two resolutions which had been submitted to the business committee, but had been rejfettel by them; He must, however, observe, with deference, that this assembly, though called a conference, had as yet done nothing which could entitle it to the name f a cur ference.—(Vartial cheering.) The first resolution NI as one embodying the principle of universal suff age; the second advocating the payment of Members, and pledg ing the association to carry out these principles. Mr. TILLETT rose to explain the reasons why the committee had rejected the resolutions. They conceived that the object of this conference was to consider the best practical means of carrying out the principles which had been stated as the basis of the association, and not argue what the principles should be, inasmuch as they were all laid down in the programme of the as sociation. If Mr. Reynolds did a. t agree in these prin ciples, it wvs his duly to retire from the conference. The CHAIRMAN then put the question, whether the meeting would eater:ain the resolutions, but the con ference rejected them by an unanimous vote. Af.er Mr. BURTON, of Winchester, had addressed a few words to the conference, the Chairman introduced Mr. BRIGHT, M.P., who said that he should abstain from raying aeything in praise of the principles which they were met to carry out, but should confine him,e f to endeavouring to give the conference a few hiut3 as to the best means of carrying ont those principles. He thought that nothing could be of more importance than to present an undivided front to the country, both in the nature cf their propositions, and in the means of carrying them out. There cculd be no doubt that their propositions would meet with men who would not entirely agree with them ; some would think they went too far, and some that they did not go far encugh. Now one reason why he always felt confidence in defending their propositions was, that they were not directed against any particular class, or involved propositions which did n' t affect al classes alike. It was a mistaken notion, but one which had great sway in the country, that theee was something in the power of the many which would be destructive cf security of property sad good government. There was one course which some speakers followed which he was free to say did some degree of harm, and that was identifying, the destruction of their own particular objects of politi cal hatred with the purification of zepreseatation. For instance, if he (Mr. Bright) were arguing in favour of this proposition, he would not say that he calculated that the moment he got an extension of the suffrage he would upset the Established Church, because that would do no good, but only ighten many men who thought the principle of an Established Church was quite right, but who would go with him on the question cf Parliamentary Reform. There were reasons quite numerous enough without going to such reasons as these. There was a strong tide of opinion flowing in their favour even in the House of Commons; the progress of the Irish Franchise Bill showed that there was no longer any question cf the absolute necessity of these advances, but only how they were to be done. The great care which this association hal to take was, that in their speeches and writings they should not alarm the timid portion of the public, that they should lay their propositions before the public in the most tempting shape. If they did their duty they would have little fear of opposition, but would gain one step in the realisation of that great principle, that all real govern ment must be based on the concurrence of all classes of the people. The Hon. Gentleman then eat down amid loud and repeated cheering. Mr. BOWKATT, of Poplar, then spoke to the resolution, which was proposed by Mr. Lushington, M.P., in the morning sitting. Mr. Fnazea, of Ipeivich, next addressed the con ference. After the first resolution had been put and carried, Mr. CLAEK proposed the next resolution, which was seconded by Mr. a ILLET, and ca-ried unanimously. It was to the following effect:— '• That the council be respectfully requested to pre pare a Bill containing the plan of re the aseoci2tion, with a v i ew to i ts i n t ro duction, in that h sape, to Parliament." rorm prop )sed by • Mr. THWAITES then proposed, '° That this conference is of opinion that fur the future the members of the council be chosen by election, without reference to the amount of their subscription, by a conference cf delegates from various parts of the country, and that the ten pound qualification be discontinued; and this conference would further recommend that the council shall henceforth ho chosen at the annual conference." Mr. WADE, in seconding the resolution, took occa sion to find fault with the former constitution of the council, which, he complained, did not afford sufficient opportunity for the admission of the working classes. The CHAIRMAN then explained, and some discussion followed with reference to the resolution, in which Mr. Alcock, Mr. Alderman A. Scholofitld, delegates from Sheffield, Mr. Prout, and Mr. G. Dawson joined, when The CHAIRMAN announced that the hour fixed for the adjournment of tie conference had arrived. The debate upon the resolution was then adjourned until the meeting cf the conference at ten o'clock tc morrow morning. STATE OF TRADE. (From the Manchester Guardian of this day.) MANCHESTER, TUESDAY.—OUT market has relapsed into a state cf quietness like that in which the Niagara found it at the beginning of last week; with this differ ence, boa ever, that, allowing for an ata,tement from the more extreme demands of producers, they have now taken their stand on a rather high range of prices. The quotations may be broadly stated at id. to id. per above those of this day fortnight, in mule and water twist, and lid. to 31 per piece in wide shirting', printing cloths, and other medium fabrics. Exceedingly little business has indeed been done, either in yarns or goods. The home dealers appear to be quite out of the market, and the continental merchants are watch ing the course of things, in a state of hariosing per plexity, cautious not to operate beyond the supply of the immediate and more pressing wants of their correspon dents, who, as well as themselves, aro anxiously noting tho successive ebbs and flows of prices in this market, and losing something of confidence with every vibration. However, the firmness of producers for this class of buyers is materially sustained by the fact that they are not burdened v.ith heavy stocks, while they are aware that there is no excess ( f supply abroad. And this department of our market finds sup port also, though indirectly, in that extensive demand for the markets of the ear, which continues to take off so large a proportion of what we produce. Then, the loss in which the trade is so seriously and increasingly involved, is at once strengthenine- and ex tending the determination to diminish the production, if there is ti be no better aojustment of price to cost; end this determination is, we know, being quietly carried out by parties who have hitherto endeavoured to avoid taking such a step. ROCHDALE, AioNDAv.—The flannel market continues very greet, and the merchants show no diepesition to operate. There is little or no charge in wool since lait tray, either in price or demand. Tile time hen the new clip will be ready is fast spprenhirg,. and this generally induces the manufacturers to buy sparingly. MACCLESFIELD, TuEsDAT,—There has been no change worthy of note in our markets during the last week. If anything, trade may be reported rather quictc.r than it was amongst the manufacturers and throwaters ; but the present fine weather; it is thought, by some, will create a better demand shortly. The raw silk market rema'ns without alteration. HALIFAX, SAFIIRDAY.—There has been rather more business done in our Piece Hall to-day; but the demand for worsted goods is far from brisk, and prices remain without improvement. We have no change to report with respect to yarn and long wool. Short wool goes off heavily; and quotations are rather easier than they were a week or two ago. LEEDS, TIIESDAY.—There is no change of importance to notice in the cloth trade since last week. The manu facturers are well employed, and there is a good business doing in the warehouses. Prices continue firm. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, Aprzl 23. PROTECTION. The Earl of HARDWICKE presented several peti tions from various farmers and graziers in the Isle of Ely complaining of distress, and praying for redress. Whether the free-trade experiment turned out ulti mwely to be successful or not several respectable indi viduals must, be ruined by it. He did not b • lieve that House could at present :Ilford the redress, because if it were to propose to interfere with the free-trade experi ment, they would be told that the revenue was prosper ing, that commerce was increasing, and if they went out of doors that they should meet with no difficulty in finding farmers to compete for taking any estate that was vacant. They should be told that the income-tex was increasing, and that would be appca'ed to as a proof of the prosperity cf the country, but he con sidered the increase in the income-tax was a very fallacious argument to prove the increased prospe rity of the country. They should also be told that prices were net lower than in 1835; but in 1835 we had no foreign competition. He believed that shortly, how ever, they would be able to give these persons relief; because, if the experiment of free trade were persisted in much longer, the Effect would be to entail the ruin not only of the agricultural class, but of every other class, and there would then be a unanimous call for a ri.turn to sounder principles. He confidently believed that the present state of things could tut exist, and, therefore, the agricultural body had before them, in the course of the next year, that strong hope which arose from the difficulties in which they were at present plunged. PRICES OF AGRICULTURAL PRODUCE. The Earl of MALMESBIJRY then rose, in pursuance cf notice, to move for the following returns :—Return of the imports of wheat and wheat flour, also of barley and oats, into the United Kingdom, in each week since the Ist of January, 1850, end of the average prices of each we eh; and also, return of the total amount im ported within the same period, distinguishing the coun tries from which imported. The Noble Earl said he might be told that he could obtain the information which he was anxious to acquire from the returns relating to trade rind navigation, which had already been presented to the House, and in which was to be found the amount of corn imported into this country since the commence ment of the year. But ho was further desirous of knowing what were the countries from h that corn had been received, and from which corn still continued to arrive in large quantities, in the face of a falling market.—(Hear, hear.) If he were to consult his own convenience he should content himself with merely moving for those returns; and he was aware that in at terne, Wig to discuss at any length a subject which had already occupied so much of their time, and which in itself was but little attractive, he ran a risk of forfeiting any claim to an extension of that indulgence which he had always experienced from the House. But when he witnessed the deplorable state of the agricultural interest at the present moment he thought it his paramount duty to entreat their Lordships to direct their most earnest attention to that subject, as well as to the state of our corn markets since the repeal of the corn-laws in the year 1846. At the commencement of the present session they had been assured that the low prices of agricultural produce at that period could not cent:nue; and yet they had 'since fallen consider ably lower. Let them look at the policy which Parliament had pursued upon that subject. Three parties had assisted in the repeal of those corr.-laws which had afforded a protection to the agricul:u al class under the groat and peculiar burdens which they had to bear. One of those pat tie:, did not exist, he was happy to say, in that Reuse, but it did net the less exist in the country. That party which had been one of the most active in agitating for a repeal <f the corn-laws was composed of men who had not scrupled lately to declare publicly that they considered that the repeal would lead to this most desirable end—the establishment of a pure democracy in this country. That party believed that with a repealof the protective system the value of agri cultural produce would become so depreciated as to had to a diminution cf the social and political influence of those a horn they caled the aristocratic body, among whom they included not only the nobility, hut the whole of the landowners of this country, who, as every one knew, had always been the strongest bulwark of the Throne against democratic invasion. He should, however, say nothing more of that party, because none of them were present upon that occasion. There was another party which certainly did exist in ' that House, and which also possessed great activity, talent, and intelligence, and which had been mainly in strumental in procuring the repeal of those laws—he alluded to those theoretical economists who had sud denly fallen in love with the doctrine of fhee trade, be hoeing it to be founded on na'ural and normal truths, but totally forgetting the complex state of society in this country. Thcee were men for whom he entertained the greatest respect, because he knew that they were honest in their opinion and sanguine in their expectations. They believed that free trade would prove beneficial to this country, and he certainly gave them credit for thinking that it could not lead to that deplorable anxiety and discomfort which it bad occasioned among the agri cultural classes. But they were men, like the Noble Earl the Secretary for the Colonies (Earl Gree ), who had lately congratulated their Lordships on the effect produced by free trade, and who was himself one of the most distinguished of their number—they were ardent and uncompromising politicians, who threw down a principle before the country as they would throw down an article of material produce. He believed that any thing that he could say would not have much influence with those persons; but he would ask them also to turn their attention earnestly to what was going on in the corn markets of this country, and to consider what must be the result. There was a third party in that House to the repeal of the corn-law s, which comprised a ma jority of their Lordships, and which must always be looked upon in this country with the deepest respect. Among the members of that party he wLhed particu larly to address himself to the Noble Lords on the cross benches, and to some Noble Lords on that (the opposi tion) side of the House, from whom those with whom he had the honour to act had unfortunately been for some time dissevered. He believed that those Noble Lords had thought, in voting for a repeal of the corn-law.r,that they had been doing their duty to the country by giving way to what they considered to be an almost universal call on the part of the people. They had hopsci that no such evils as those which the party with whom he was associated had predicted would result from the . propo.ed change, and that, after its adoption, what he might call a genial stream of food would flow into this country,. in stead of that overwhelming torrent by which our mar kets had been inundated. In that party he should place the Noble Marquis opposite (the Marquis c f Lansdowne) himself, because the Noble Marquis had, both at the be ginning of the present session, and at a subsequent pe riod, called the repeal of the corn-laws " an experiment." He had also been told that the Chancellor of the Ex chequer had ststed in another place, that he did not ex pect that that measure would occasion such low prices in our markets. He accepted the expression of the Noble Marquis. He had always looked upon the measure as an " experiment;" and he should always protest against the language held, not so much in that House as out of the House, by leaditig journals, and by men of great talent and eloquence, to the effect that the existing law upon the subject was necesarily final. He consie sidered that language to be a positive insult to the common sense and the good feeling of the country. Surely a law was not necessarily final because it had been tried for a year. Surely no Act of Parliament could be considered necessarily final, and least of all an Act of Parliament upon a fiscal question. Ho could understand that the abolition cf personal privileges con fined to a class might be final; but to say that a fiscal enactment was necessarily final was the language of decrepit men who had only sufficient strength left to enable them to move in one unvarying attitude. The price of corn still continued to fall; it had not only fallen within the last two months, but it had fallen within the last week. The last average that had been pu'llished was that for the week ending Saturday, the 13.11 inst.— that Average being 38s. a quarter for wheat. The average for the week ending on last Saturday would not be published until to-morrow (this day); but he could state from information which had reached him, that in almost all our principal markets the price had fallen during the last week. Ho found that during that week the average price of wheat at Salisbury bad been 37e. and of barley 215., which would not be more than a remunerat ing price for oats. He found that at Saindon the price of wheat last week had been 355., at Dorchester 365., at Warminster 355., at Norfolk 375.; that in Northumber land it had been below 353., and that in London the average price had fallen by 25., in consequence cf an importation during the week of 100,000 quarters of dif ferent kinds of grain. Now, their Lordships should re member that a fall of 2s. on 38s. was one of very consi derable amount, and was of course much greater than a fall of 2s. on 583. We had begun the year with an ave rage of 405.; and in the face of that average a very large importation of foreign corn had taken place. At the beginning of the month of December it must have been known in foreign parts that the price of wheat in our markets was reduced to 40s. a quarter; and notwithstand ing that fact, we had received in the months of Jan. and Feb. importations of 275,000 quarters of wheat, of 47,000 quarters of barley, and of 29,000 quarters of oats; and the importation were still being contietted. The fact was, that oven at prices which could not remunerate tho British farmer, foreigners could inundate our mar kets.Sln the year 1849 the average price of wheat in England had been only 41e.; and jet in that year we had received from foreigners 4,509,626 quarters of wheat, 1,554 860 quarters of barley, 1,363,763 quarters of oat 4, and 3,937,219 cwt. of wl , eat(n flour; making altogether an ;importation equivalent to 10,000,000 quarters of grain, without including pulse and Indian corn. We ha 3, beside:, received from abroad during that year 5'2,000 head of cattle and 129,000;obeep. He had stated these fects for the purpose of showing what vast powers foreigners bad of importing into this country ; and their Lordehips might depend uponit that they could continue their importations at a profit to themselves, even though the prices were lower than at present in our markets. There had, as yet, been no means of knowing the exact price at which foreigners could import into this country — but he believed that that point might soon be ascertained. The British farmer was she ady well aware that he could be undersold by the foreigner; and when he demanded 38s. for his wheat, the corn- factor showed him a sample of wheat which he could receive from Havre, or some other near port, for 375., and then asked him how he could require 38s. He (the Earl of Malmesbury) had himself heard that language held, and so, no doubt, had many of their Lordships; and then, he would ask, whether it vs as surprising that under such circumstances a panic should spread among our farmers? It was well known that the farmers had still large stocks on their hands, which they had been induced to hold in cense querce of the language employed some time since by members of her Majesty's Government and by other free-traders, who bad stated that prices should necessa rily rise; and the result was, th a t a t p resen t, a t t h e en d of April, within three months of the harvest, they had large quantities of grain on hand, whilst increased im portations and falling markets . were staring them in the face.—(Hear.) The large farmers might be able to bear up for a while against such a state of things; but how would the small farmers fare? He knew it was said that the small farmers should be: destroyed, unless they pos sessed capital, and were conversant with chemistry; but that was equivalent to stating that, without the-se advan tages, they had no right to live. He recollected that, during the discussions .on the corn-laws in 1846, a most eloquent prelate had declared that to repeal those laws would be to return to a more natural and normal state of things. But was there anything, he would ask, in our normal nature that was to ti sofa chemistry.? Or was it the natural state of mankind to be born with capital? He would warn their Lordships that the destruction of the English yeomen would be the removal of what had been the most loyal and the most peaceable portion of her Majesty's subjects. But he could confidently state that the farmers were now findieg fault with tie form of government which had reduced them to their present condition. He might be asked why they had not held similar language in the year 1835, when prices had been as low as at present. Now, his muse er to such a question would be, that prices had at that time been low in conse quence of a plenef al lessor:, which still left them pros perous, while their preset unhappy position was the re sult of human intervention and of Acts of Parliament. The agrieulturalclasses had aright to come to the Legisla ture and say to it—" You have depreciated the value of our property to the extent of one-third ; it was worth 563., it is now only wee th 38e; yet, while you have done so, you ask us to pay the same amount of taxes as we formerly did.—(Hear, hear.) We pay the same taxes as we did before you meddled with us, and that is equi valent to having raised the taxes from 50,000,0001. to 67,000,000/, so far as regards us. You has e added one third to our burdens, when you have depreciated the value of our productions by so much. Is it fair, then, that we should pay the same fixed annuities which we were to pay befere you made these changes? There was nothing given us in return for that depreciation which would entitle us to pay the same rate of interest to the public creditor as we did before."— (Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he had only to say their Lordships and Par liament wou!d have to consider whether or not it was a wise thing to ruin their debtor or re trace the steps they had taken. If they did not do so he thoUght that neither the condition of the country would be wle, nor could it be governed wiih h enoue.—(Hear, hear.) The Duke of RICHMOND said he could bear testi mony to the truth of all that had fallen from his Noble Friend. There never was a time when greater egricule taral distress prevailed in this country. The farmers and yeomen were at the present moment loyal, but he warned the Government, and all who were interested in maintaining the institutions of the coueory, net to drive these men desperate. What was loyalty? He would remind their Lordships of the French proverb—" Le reuple no' se souleve pas par envies de se soulever, mais par imratieace de souffrir." He knew large districts once prospet one, in which whole families had been re duced to the condition of paupers, and compClled to take shelter in the workhouses.—(H, an.) Iti was im posghle for the farmers of England to continue to pay taxes at present prices, and it was also unteir to single them out alone for this reduction, while the publh., creditor and all other bodies coetieued to receive the old prices.—(Cries of " Hear, hoar.") For his own part he expected nothing from Noble Lords opposite, they were too, deeply pledged to free trade to race le, but he lookel to the good sense of the people of England, and especially of the people of Scotland, to compel them to return to a fair and adequate protection. —(Cheers.) He trusted that instead of being daunted by the bold assertions c f the free-traders that this ques tion was settled, they would not giro in, but continue to bring forward their own views by eatery constitutional means. It was a farce to say that such a measure could be final. Nothing short of protection could be of . any use, unless they were prepared to sweep away 'a great body of property, and of the industrious population of the country. There was another class who opposed them—he meant the occupants of the episcopal bench. But these Right Reverend Prelates were not affected by the law--their incomes were fixed.—(Laughter.) But he warned them an agitation leas beginning among the farmers, who did not see the justice of paying the same amount of tithes now as they did under old prices. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he would not enter upon the discussion which bad been opened up by the Noble Earl and the Noble Duke opposite, in moving for returns. When these returns had been made he would be perfectly ready to enter on a discussion that might be raised as to whether it was necesatry to of any change in the present system. Fie was certainly not prepared to say, that he believed a state of things had arisen in which Parliament should be called upon to re view its policy. It was not his int ration to oiler nay opposition to that which had been made by the Noble Earl. The returns would be useful; but as it was de- sirable that their Lotelehips should be in posseaaion of all the information necessary to enable them to form a correct opinion, he should move, as anaedition to the re turns specified by the Noble Ear), a return from the corn inspectors of the average prices of the corn sold in our markets during the last five years. The Duke of RICHMOND said that he did not be lieve a single syllable of the returns made by the coin inspectors. Lord STANLEY did not go the whole length of the Noble Duke, in entirely disbelieving the returns from the corn inspectors, but he did not think the addition would give them any information as to the quantities of corn sold on which they could place reliance.—(Hear, hear.) He must, however, take that opportunity of ex pressing his satisfaction at the change of tone upon the subject. Instead of treating the question as decided ir revocably, the Noble Marquis had admitted that the prices were exceptional, and lower than he had antici pated. He collected from that statement, and he hailed it with satisfaction, that the Noble ;Marquis leas 'ef opi nion that an extravagantly low price was not of itself desirable, or in itself a public good.—(Hear, hear.) He inferred also, that not only the Noble Marquis, but the Government, were of opinion that the prices were now lower than they ought to be, or than the repeal of the corn-laws were intended t ) make them— ace, therefore, that so far the experiment 1. al net succeeded.—(Hear, heir.) But whin tiey treated this as an experiment, and admitted that prices were lower than they expected, he asked how many more hundreds of their fellow-countrymen were to be ruined before they were convinced of the fully ef she experiment, and began to retrace their steps? . They had been told by the Noble Marquis, at the beginning of the session, that the low prices could not last. In five or six weeks, at, ad events by the month of March, they would recover—the ides of March had come and had pasted—the ides of April ee:e here, and were passing, and still the prices had not risen—they were falling, with every prospect c f continuing to fall—and, as les Noble Friend had truly remarked, this was at a time whi n they were within three months of another harvest. ar.) Under these circumstances his Noble Friend asked for returns of the ports from whence these impor tations had come, which produced this effect upon our market, in order that they might know whether there was any prospect of improved price or of such an in creased demand as would make agriculture profitable. He did not believe there vas such a pros; ect. In the case of cotton and tea largely increased demand had followed the reduction of price, and looking at the numerous countries all ef which woull send their grain to this market, it was certain that under the new policy prices must be permanently low, and unprofitable.—(Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances it was morally im possible that cultivation could be carried on in this country—(fLar, hear)—or that additional capital and industry could be invested in an unremuneratire occupa lion. What was to be done with the Lothian., the gar den of Scotland, where skill and capital had already done their utmost, and it was impossible to add materially to the productiveness of the soil ? He believed the time bad come when they must abandon this policy, give up this itl-fated experiment, and retrace their steps. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said the Noble Lord had drawn inferences and made statements which would have been better made after the returns had been laid upon the table. But he altogether denied the words which the Noble Lord had put into his mouth, as to the failure of the experiment, or the necessity of revising their past policy. He denied that he said one word in dicative of a feeling that it was necessary to repeal the law.—(Hear, hear.) Lord STANLEY explained. The Noble Marquis said that the case in question was an excepticn, as the prices could not last ' • and the inference he (L or d S:aaley) drew from this ststement of the Noble Mar quis was, that the prices were neither such as the Noble Marquis ha I anticipated or considered desirable, and, therefore, that the experiment had failed. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE thought tLeir Lord ships were not justified in coming to the conclusion that the experiment had failed. If the Noble Lord was de sirous of fairly testing this matter, his course was clear. Ho ought at once make a substantive motion on the sub ject, when the question could be fairly gone into. lie could not, however, allow that opportunity to pass with out denying that the measure for the repeal of the duty on corn had been to tried, as to justify the conclusion that the measure had failed. Lord STANLEY said he did not consider the present price of corn an txbeption, nor did he think he was houad to brhg a substantive motion forward to test the efficacy of the alteration of the law in relation to corn. _ _ _ Earl GREY contended that if NoVe Lords felt that the measure in question had failed, they ought to test the matter by bringing forward a substantive motion on the subjee. He objected to a discussion being raised on the merits of a measure upon a mere motion for pa pers, when that discussion could lead to no practical re sult. He contended that it was no more in the power of Parliament to fix the price of corn, than it was to fix the rate of wages, and the Noble Lord (Lord Stanley), when in power, objected to any attempt King made to dfect this latter r,sult. _ _ Lord BEAUMt ).;'\ 1 t%coc.-,i , t the Ili.uso WaS much in dety.ed to the Noble Earl (Malmesbury ) for briugiug for ward this motion, because thc is Lordships ere not at the present moment in a position tD say under what cir cumstances foreigners were importing their corn; whether with the prespoct eertair: loss, or 11.-. e r expectafon that the present low erlce3 tivculd /3°' o je6 tinue, but would i tiadeAly advance. The frae -tr ' ,o l,o did not meet these questions with anything CC el * —(Hear, hear)—and %hers Noble Lordscoelplitir th,present low prices, the rree-traders, instea d I ' l o logising for such a state of things, and urging• lll3 neolii the consequence cf accident, and wholly e%c`e-ocl they ought b:Adly to say, pric e s a t e low, lvid 5 1: 1 10 the better; and if the price of wheat was now if it were even 255., t'ley would be more plenred, v'" 10 1 of the gain of lor. for the purchase of rrachin e lof other articles. What alarmed: him most in co: o ct with the repeal of the corn laws w a s the utte r U; s pr of corn in any of the great bonding storehouses sc, land, and particularly in the north, a Huv, 0 001e ,', c ies and those places were now devoted to other P u ''or than granaries, which showed that the ;ace of 011 ...1iebl culators had vanished. In the event of a sudden ;01 they would not have corn to meet the reqnir elne f the public.—(Hear, hear.) He thought, howe°:, hA I the Act in relation to the duty on corn had no t a sufficient trial; at the same time they ought to the necessary information on the subject. • The Earl of MALMESBURY replied, and •-• °v •„ e ore' motion would net be delayed by the addition so r b by the Noble President elf the Council. Id O t ' The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said they o° ll (5 10 and they - would be laid before the House with ail P°- celerity. 14016 The returns, with the addition proposed by the Marquis, were then ordered. Ff The Duke of RICHMOND gave notice that °11 „f lb/ day he would present forty petitions complaini n g;tu d operation of the present law in relation to eGr"osli asking for a return to protection to native industry its branch. cad s The Sch es ool Districts Contribution Bill w as r third time and passed. ; 61f The Earl of PO WIS presented a petition praY;nsvitre an explanation oF the differences which had takeflAtlio between the National Society and the Cominitt t ee k ,vril l Privy Council; also a petition a ga i ns t Sunday i j 't the Post-office.—Their Lordships then adjourned' DOUSE OF COMMOIVS„4priI 23' THE UNIVERSITIES. Mr. HEYWCOD rose to move that all Fr ielp o s t: /i academical education require from time to tiro`, sees modification, from the change of ex t erna l circunote'oet the progress of opinion, a n d th e i n t e ll ectua l iniP, r l,l.l ol ' of the people. Th a t in th e anc i ent E ng li s h a nd Ir; t ee i t j versiiies, and in the colleges connected with the nl ' y ve'" terests cf religious aid useful lea rn i ng h a ve not s ; 5 , lel to an extent commeo s ur a t e w ith th e grea t resou r to vs' i high position of those b o dies ; t h a t co ll e giate 5 t 6. led the fifteenth centnry occasionally prohibit Ol e o er authorities from introducing any alterations j ., 11 0 60 luminous coder, of which a lar go p or tion are tl° e "peuls te „ fete ; that better laws are nee d e d to tt e e r sor the ceremony cf matriculati on and th e uni te ing of degrees ; to diminish the eye ! ,iret ness of the University libraries; to provide fur j t , , re 4 l distribution of the rewards o f scientific en d , e " merit; to extend the permission of merrier `lectors of colleges, and to fecilitate the registration o f (;:,et Ve fur the Universities; that additions! checks considered with reference to the continued ex ( r 3v- 0 - r0 of individual students, and th a t t h e nayie of te n - e eie" / college property ought to b e ame li o rated, r - f ie", lady in Ireland. That, as it is h e r MajestY 's and prerogative to earn ° v i s it ors and c° ,lC O 3.,'' s:oners to inquire into the ancie n t U n i ve rsities (Tea of Euglantl and Ireland, an humble al d ni b presented to her Majesty, praying that her ga3 ss i e s e f be graciously pleased to i ssue h er R o y a l Cola il3i t yers e ° lequiry into the state of th e U n i vers iti es and Cd':„;, Oxford, Cambridge, arid Publin, with a /1 .a 3 ti1',.. assist in the adaptation of th ose i m portan t L ast', tions to the requirements cf modern o f t r The fact that a large nunib er o f t h e alembet9oo House had been at one cf the two Universi tie i6 great advantage to him in b,i ng i ng forward tP3ij 0 Lion. , In 1772 a gre e t d ea l o f atten ti o n Was lid , the subject of university referni, and consha re: improvement resulted from it. Th e subject t pelt; ermined dormant until 1834, when the House ' W O'', tioned on the subject, and the late M r ' succeeded in passing a Bill which avn? t i t fr t e out in the Lords. Afterwards Me, Chre e e 'l e ;elol s , Master of the Mint, and other distinguished le"' : ie exerted themselve's to bring about some ulterat O f 9 1ter f university system, and of late years c onsidera b `,, e ee ts rations had been made in the laws of both ting e ', r oc:, learning. The first thing that struck a en visiting either of the Universities w n - , a g ele large number of tutors who were u t) " - rua nh,„' He considered it was a great disadvantage 0- ' 4 l tel',;l; the best men in the Universities were obliged - I ° o s ti is Trish tl&r fellowships when they married. , ie ce ceses they acre driven to obt a i n the Irlasterg" to rely 6 61 , grammar_school in some country village an- „,li• Trish situations for which they were peculiarlY cl -4 1 ebid He believed to every great extent the conditiorsit, 1 0 , 1$ the property of colleges was originallY died out. Under those circumstances be ' lye e it was very desirabl e th a t if ere should o de( inquiry into the property, end the co ndition s wo e / which that property was h e ld i n th e Unil t l s , l o3 o „; Oxford and Cambridge. It was th e i n t en tion 0' 7, oP: o in granting charters t o th e un i vers i t i es , ani° , 7 rho things, that the Memb ers o f P ar li amen t i ° ," tj c , Universities should present t o P ar li ament a toe acceunts far the several universities from tirV e o °7 lie (Mr. Heyweod) might call on th e me mbers ° , • 0 0;;; Universities, under those ch ar t ers , now t render 0 01,1", counts of the Universities to Pa r li 3men t, but to issue s it more advisable that the H ouse s h ou ld g et inf° l. : e nse:; respecting them through such an inquiry as he P r f t; ( The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to cornpla ill ee ( hardship of the law which rendered it on authors to deposit a copy c f their works ah ic se' a the Universities, consid4ring the immense reve l- , fr r , joy ed by those seminaries. Tee income a rici'b y'',: Fellowships at Oxford was a b ou t 12000 1 t g e eLl, at Cambridge, 90,0061 ; and in Dublin , 3 0,04 venee of the College estates, amounted to 14'74 The Hon. Gentleman the n read the oath lake!bjeb'd Fellows of King's C o ll ege , C am b r id ge , from oei h e r's argued that it was i m po ss ibl e for a member Of I , P „ of .7 0 - 0 to propose any great c h ange i n t h e cons titutl e nota w society. In the reign of Henry the Bth, a e°ni e f 08 ,,rte, was sent down to inqui re i n t o t h e U n i ve rs/re c q.v bridge, and though a c i rc l e o f cour ti e rs w ir e : i i e ers.4 ready to snap any confi sca ti ons o f the tcl property, the King disappointed them by bit'd them that the lands could not be in taerala hands, and contented himself by d e priving ii n all the bulls which had been di rec t e d t o the iept oh' by the Pope. Edward the Sixth, Cardinal a i ,'" ; , r t at Queen Elizabeth, all issu e d comm issions jaa; g same purpose to b- th the Universities:. etf•t,,' , on, Archbishop Laud intermeddled with lu ,e ° of Oxford, and would have done so 5" . .,"" ,t I"; bridge, had the Puritan party there 0 11° ",; O f tie He was sorry to say that many of the ill efre e r f e. , if prelate's interference were yet visible at 01tn';feret t s thought a change weuld be beneficial. M !Or o s they looked at the lists, they would find that 0; 3 / of the students failed, the reason of which tra'' . ,et t ll ,l told, that they failed in their divinity. thesabels none but persons of great learning in Chalfitic should be appointed to the theologies! eb alf. iaje c , management, too, of the ' college lan ds 0 1 r ip , be greatly amended, and more especially pi's gard to the case of Trinity, Colleg e ' VLI DI O I d An importance attached to Trinity Colleg e ' eas t ro l e pcculisr to itself, on account of its being the g r (i. only literary institution for the whole of Ire's'', i , il°",g Right Hon. Member for Tamworth had certs' y e b!la t er great service to that country by recently a' fi ee t • le schools and colleges at Gelway and Belfast , ",,ao ° 4 o " could only be considered as superior grainins t r;•tr e , He recollected an instance in which a Roman student obtained a scholarship at Trinity h i s Dublin, tut Ras depriv e d a ft erwar d s on ' re $ " 0 fusing to take the sacrament. To be , Ini gsleef emolument was very trifling, being ontYr,.• year, but it was a degradati on t h at Roman'4e - be ll et were not allowed to take the s ecu l ar h onou r of a 6- eak tg ship. It appeared to him that these scholarsh i p a eh t :„ to be open, and that the test of th e sacramen t ° 'tfri ci tts , he entirely abolished. At Trinity College, „a let taking the sacrament was purely voluntel„; . t o te believed the first step they ought . t ", a Li t"; ( 1 was to institute a searching inveetigatt e nosn'o the constitution of the old Universities. l e l t e gr 9 , es i the students treated the Thirty-nine Articles viii levity, which showed the worthlessness Of b ' e olt ; " a e which was applied. It appeared that the e . - sei e - lt which they signed their names to the Tk" eihr e Articles contained three columns, one of ;be °old was for the sons of noblemen, another fo r :iff of gentlemen, and the thi r d f or th e son s or pleb ei lto P a 1 ( 1 the great anxiety was not to put th e ir names i ll at if 'to beian column. On the other hand, however, l il e ditto conscientious scruples as to the propriety of a c st at, these testa, and Mr. Romilly, one of the Masted go g .i g ford, had told him that it was extremely pain f t s eo:4 a refusal to a student who ' adopted 1 "" P') principles. How long was this degradinb' hes7,l miserable proselytism to continue ?—(g et/r Zecee iota This question had too long remained in ahainaost,lie he hoped the House would now take up th e rig r f t e i with vigour. At ell events, he felt perf e ctbi'a beg fled that the day was not far distant w res t ti l t would have a further inquiry into this g 00 0 4, important subject. At present too much wa i lea rnw c a of what was called ancient usages and ancient detect and every thing like modern literature 'was ( l a tor,d e ll Nothing was so common as to meet with a n e ati r a l Cambridge man on the continent, who ""e re „„ : at a a l; ignorant of French and German. They were t ti T re° i of useless things as logic, and the yaw ° •irel l " Vol so was, that when a scholar left • the ,145 , he had to throw aside his former 0e " 'at's' enter as it were an entirely ner, ia etat i :, o o Now very little change would be effected A "' - a ed 6 : e t' things until the system was entirely altered ,--,eof°„"jel money was voted for the support of modern r 6:0",11 ships. Put such men as Mr. Macaulay and re n d s $ upon a commission, and the House might " 1- 00 1 Pfjo it the result of those deliberations would be e t . tiee , tha t improvement in the conduct of our Uni ver locvi d go had brought this motion forward because hes cban a te the Universities themselves could not cffee.„ t 0 11 1 , 0 „ 1 without legislative interference. There were Ge of detail, such as the elective system, which oe u iT s ire ete eif.ed and diTosed of by a commission. 1 - 113 . e t e t e O d a tie were the seats, and no doubt would rernala nd 0o et' cf cisilization, and they ought to change ' l 4O O e t' with the improvements of the age . It was voif re to all men to be educated at one of i th w e bo !J e d deities, and none ought to be excluded Wea re r fit to be admitted into them. To the man we' a pre, to adopt the bar, medicine, or the Church 0 13,1 ,0 h o , sion it tea; almost indispensable that he ! ne ef ie 1 - e, n, euil(ge, and no one ought t ° eta as i. eluded on account of his religioniebe I.)Pbe It was no answer to tell him that ho ots ° he versities were nurseries for the Church, ,epto was prepared to profs that only half of t he °Su' h inesurs.igss: yye whichr e ,vr, un() *ere entered vc 1101 3 , o-d I:° a tsw e , l . I t hve :r e iSeii s-tu nc a r l ri rh d ; u (11; afiag3Ra'gTlhaet lehornaveLesunee4.nrniptee.:: ueina. ol g kna , y oui Universities. !ejeal dresses I.lniversity ; toneion in Unfit a il eeneladed trie s o f 64E, R am !lila; forward manner dressed to tl the bill of i to bring k Stated, T h the inte l'atice l in th 15Uratk with PrOOF had th this statenie. the Crown etitutional °J the Govei 4iern her the without the an uneonstit The considered add in that Position hie that Parliat touters co' Paelphlet wieo desi ever takenlB37 . 11 the Viee-CI the Noble I e i ttY had a l rl 41 on• •rob seaters int( „1 ;he ad na iarni uz Y'ur 18 31, N ' ll P l ed th petiti on ford, it yo,' to aThe il the c 11,1 1 qInt Of 'Th e Pro , c 141(1 the r r, . 4 . unttblY c l' 7 to ; e d --arch c any nit za , d Leek th-ir t that th at s 3 d gst Eh klinetion t krll, as al li vers won, the tut)ra tu tors alth tc 11?iglit ive sign 11 had '8 onlwhObs.y t" lee Was Y U ; for t h e u ° th e ii , lJrr e n "r extracr( of the Plot mi ght be & ' r e nosh 'thug bo university 11.311 r duty .ezr duty (fit r.] -•ap teci t( Th ef °re the of education,reticzti P),„cd had f or in fa v ettr stied of i P,ete cony ttlionni of (4. the II , .1) N be One ' Whi c h he the preset tiv e l„ .7, sa felt i t . "laded to th ose ;,,' difi at any learned g lia r .p i The feel hirneticm 414 Ron, talki e in R eforms •• , 4snir e9. ha d mad, the moat thin gs c eouneete We rra. would be ilstitutit would it 4 0 the c lorry to to. / co urse o ties, an t e, I F °Pinio n , tiJ ° tune „ Whi c h ' I T ertin g • de re i t , 1 1 Vowin E j " I Y its wild 53 to er kid a d, PartieiPuhlic p th With out /) ,,, Ir rPo Ee , . te ., it s site the std th eY v quoted of th e dev otee 'egal w as that 1 k th .; em, - erat ., tir n. whi ch co u l d thi % ra Lion 0' li e , the.the,e, let eri e tooh: 411 th, se nt t d ents a nion all ow Pre Ee e lude for t sh oe . th o de e) . l ied b a b , 11, 0 , t' ac w its in a nd eat{ u ,, tv en t i th t th e y goo; desi s ay par