The Sun. — London, England, 1845-04-19 00:00:00

• • 4 be' tab ;ifs ert , e peo: r Cher on Vi ) l';', _ te would read an extract from an address published - w in ss a n .o es e v; .: PaPer.---(Here the Hon. and Learned Gentleman teas ~t o il i ri. Noted by shouts of "Read, read." and great confusion . continued for some time, irv'eed, throughout ro e e c es e h u ol e e sn o te f the Hon. and Learned Geolerriee's 3pecch. ) t_ti-ei Homeh D.... to the speech of the Right Hon. Secretary I rartment.—(Laugiver, and confusion. ' for had attentively listened to al that had fallen from that Right Hon. Gentle man, and he derived as all who heard him must those d t e a r i i e v n . t ri , the highest satisfaction in the exercise with which the Right Hon. Gentleman was blessed.—(Laugh ter, (Laugh ) had been ter, cheers, and much confusion.) about to read an extract from an add li re e :s ( allow him. Gentleman, hut it seemed that the House woulfd, not ricnd near him l o e ir. th e Right Hon. p--(Cheers and laughter.) His Right lion.. art Law) filled an important position in the Conservative y, when that party was in Opposition: and he did slat t d that Right think that the Right Hon. Baronet had s (Hon. and Learned Gentleman in a very grace e f a l e manner. lie lr. Law) had been unable to make clear the u v . arious points nterruptions of his addrees, in consequence of the contin ue ht r i and much with which he had been met —( Cheers, lan., ai 'sopeort the eonfesion.) He would, therefore, most cordially support Newcastle,r Proteerition of his Hon. Friend the Member . from itbe laid oil that that Bill be read that day six months—that petitions of "in the table, and merged under the d P folded in th,e are that it be entwined the embrac e of its twin-brother, the Jewish a D n isabilities Bill ; and then that it may, if they desire it, be revivedd guardians the tiled by the fostering care of its seal parents an W higs, the Gentlemen opposite. They alone co g r u ,o ld a , w pr it o h i o e t ;_ t any conscientious scruples, engraft this measere there were ; tent Constitution. Theirs the merit, if merit theire the reril of diecomfiture, and the ignominy (The 11„ and Lear - ned Member sat down, amid great confu i of de sio n feat.— n all parts of the House. ) A I.The Speaker having left the Hou e sh fo o r rt a -.niter Lennox, who had gone out a timefrw minutes, reviou siy Lord t o -recur so me oranges for the Learned Recorder, advanced P h a a d d va r n e e su ed ir u e p i the i t H aines and not reconising Mr. Law, va • 15 'eat, he handed them to Mr. T. Duncombe, l% w f la r opwansnnostamnbde mg at the table prepared to address the House. Iritt l '"ew one of the oranges across the table to Sir J. .G l% ra i h r. am La , w hy . . it was dexterously caught, and _handed up to the it occasioned a roar of laughter and much cheering eroUghout the House Air T. D L I NCONIisE was aware that it was the wish of speedily es the Hoe that this debate should be brought Possible,. to a dose, and he could assure them not Gee , t that the Hon. and Learn ell their time to the same eaten. th m atbe would n s tz t I%elember the Recorder of London had do si n d e e . ring Lo i r i i , lc si • , tone and temper of this debate,. b e re "ad been no offence to the religious opini l o n n:s o o w f any man, that man who he might, he ceuld not h e H P ouse had heard e t 4:eas his regret at the speech which , l(i t i• tught from the Hon. and LearnedAl t e h m e berf t o h r st D i u l n u g u a . r a v n ot d i eerr'tieriSkell). He could not help thinking that . . I' member had done a great act of iniustice ne to the ia _ trarotestant Dissenter s of this country. If any d o l d Pesed that the Roman Catholics of lreland ofshouldpro_ reshot bee ° handed over to the free denominations one 4 1 1 ° 4 , inetead of to the aristocracy of England—if ia n d over t a te th e re fr ee A P t° Paised to hand the government of Ire, and Learned Geauenorninationa then indeed the Right e_ntleinan a , might have cause for the expressions he . g e linet the might lint he had done a great injuetie.el,ret. for him a h a e nd ha n d e ( tzt r e . l lotor:"mhe) only wished that he could have procured himself self(M r pi, at a petition which hart been presented,...), eating. It had pro!ceattlbe) in an early part of that e p .. a t th `. • : till ° , :d from a deputation of tree Protestants from what was'ustract of twelve ini'es around London. was tha., language in that, petition ? Their language. app _ . e a ; t 'aeY objected to the revenues of the State being b. ro inr•aled t° any eccleciastieal party whatever. They u o vem ee e t n e . c . l h_'ne broad ground that they could sanction n d o en t c i l ist they had prayer of the petitioners th e acted conscientiously, and from a conviction eat stated noan o i f m w os l i l t a y t to Jarnonsidered right. They stated that they fel . 4i18... adjtsheir Roman Catholic fellow su . bjects w a l u t d h w w h ru o u m gs the i ' o e e l a il h , e I in the oppressico, the miser th e b. theY were subjected; and, th ie e s refore, he said ‘iliaemlegs:ar great da l t 4 Hon. and Learned Gentlemen had when injustice towards the Dissenters t h_ they .were a set of fanatical insurgents.— thi s s. ''''.) The Dissenters of England had acted consisten . ty e ;9e.41 this occasion, for in 1834, when Lord Althorp—no, h .. .eerft Lord Grey —tried to bring in a Bill to pay for to o ut of the Consolidated Fund, the same party to ward and stated, on exactly the same grounds, their . o n p am po e y si e t r io n. i 67,..,innat measure, and with such success that the Whig Go the _ t considered It prudent to withdraw the Bill, because the ataase_ciaters would not tolerate the principle of paying t ae u , r h ut of the fixed revenue of the country. Their con rduct " that occasion was in perfect consistency with their inse eos in nn this. It was the payment of a partid the,, s eat out of the revenues of the country, re ciore ei, v, , ``. were perfectly consistent when they opposed that an oppositiontheei'te' to Put One and be ultimately successful, but now he wished tic, - ;• t one or two questions to the House and to her Majesty's t Stie s il o er s• He was not going to put inquisitive or impertine f n .. N ort , ns, such as had been put hy the Hon. Member o, to aaroptonshire (Mr. Steffen! O'Brien). He was not going ask if oeigthe Noble Lord had brought in a Bill whether they take have opposed it. He would not ask whether, if he had th et n his 13111 to the hustings he would have been there , as day to tell the tale ' and for the best of all :1 ,a e ons, as his Honourable' and Learned Friend the 2coroer would tell the House, that no man was bound '4oereinainate himsel but he wo uld ask this question—Were onasenuwmebrerless petitions which had been presented to this been e they to be treated as so much waste paper Could they name one instance where so much interest been evinced, or so many memorials presented, on any one stbject ? Did they letitioners when they told them tatt suPpose th to be ta t i n reuse were inconsistent, because they ee h v ad al Pa re ne rl sr d weo y eur v s o t t ain ed u t r he t io o sa r et f ;', me small eum—the sarne annual vote for th o osu them e when Col taY.nOotrnh--:1!nd that that vvould be an answe s r t, to endow that ,C,;(::llilietigaebeeforpleaelneerd? thatu their present vote , w,a. Hon. B aro net --ow mistaken the Right I , oi t ~, when that should be expressed a , Noble Lord the at e : 'hey wer !Olbe r f e told the other evening only considered thi s or the City of London, t a . t' he an ansvrer on thin • P ler • of Ireland. tbeattretwere acceptable because it was the recursor to other •••.( Rear,es ler the benefit'of theßornan Catholic c n t ' ated ba thee 114 '• ei hea rt) The same thing had been be y af . ~etuber for Newark, it could not be c t on s tradicted T b o y ,t,e'no.ol Cabinet Alini,ters that had at presen Ho spoken. me Depart ent had ° Right Hon. the Secretary for the would net '''' tohl them that the Roman Catholic clergy Depart >r accept a ny . a elit it, h e 55,7,3 pension from the State, i a t nd bu if t t h litt w i f the h old not offer to propose it, inclined, to receive 1 , f e e s. eeld n ot Catholic clergy , were they h e d wouldid not notsst H e eo . na Ale fosse old th at haue prepared to offer it.—(Cheers. ) robe, ex was was surprised at the gratitude alt t r h y at g s t o s m ut e . I.ise.a3,a wide prsessed for this miserable andth Irish T. mill - 7, !or become that the Roman Ca s.av o i l s i P e h s o sy f e le p e h la a n n i ts w o e f re a 2tate, I n al, ' come the lackeys, the I ‘Qe 1101 C I t" they were ready to prostrate themse w lv a e s s s b et e t tr g e e l ) b efore n e 4 wage which the Right Hon. Baronet They rabay syteeta.....(Cacers, and cries of it No, no.") e a ., no. ''' th e B ,' no, and the Irish people may boon, ea if thei r f_ were so or stifled for this . did th !reams were overflowing „yob gratitude—why they l''"• they not Come there and tell them ? Why did ache .. held till were so grateful only from those Gentlemen toto 1 1 ,ayie e ,' ; ea Ch eer Un the Whigs, and who seemed only t ''ieit",:ftt,° hands of the Tories ?—( Loud cheers h fro e m op t l h e e , ""t frot''' benches.) He wished to hear from the t4'id t ellth em n ° e ‘''. aPer reporte ; but, let them come.d with grafi tale. how that their boon has been received il'iasheass Ireland was to be grateful, and repeal was to be the pet i• 'aerie ," had another question with regent to to England, to the Nom e of En they su ppose that they could answer the t t aYer e l'ai.ngland by telling them that they would refuse h. lteuld have lue.r petitions because the revocation of Majesty's me -L e i s , lae the effect i dis con tinuing them as her th e 'ers? b. ° that answer would satisfy ts , Peep', of r at-. thee suppose that . t hat sL l'Poeit `lard? -4 - rme Whatever the Right Hon. Ge t n h t e le m - Th Li.ey wontay latter themselves, he could as , suir e e heers. ) in ee h_d be deceived.— Hear, • that.' w anted to know what hear,w W a r s e they to be te'Petateo wittLate with the petitions ? «'e re sr. If a u y ti. a e he wl,eontempt and as so much waste . P and be done eey w weld tell the House to look about it; P he thought that. f t r , er e no , . ~ Tis td ,i. authorised to play these freaks with the people o by the L!°Ple or - a, t neY were not sufficiently respected enough state that „' all England to do SO ( Cheers. ) He would ri'llt ,0-1111:arlian,ents thar ever sat, there never was a Parli .. -, b e N th at •rnsely hated and despised.—( feelings of the lif'Die er E l ' they persevered in insulting the k ew that the thanthey ttiand they would rue the day. Ha) an. mere Cheers.) He h s lan 'n• Gentlemen opposite did _not believe It any their belies le he t ., . ed that the people of Engl f and offi w e o e uLd ( n c o h t e b e r r e s ak ) i the„„ .. ".l If they were to go out o tPon t elr'ievered, however, in their insults they t their * ars, )l'ln those rotten walls would come rattlinaboo t e may depend Pe 'Ple lit he was told that this measure would C onciliate t a cif Ireland —he did not think that it would . tend letighe°°elliate the th (the Irish ) would da y h e en l a t j la , e t m, a ni nd — de e s Y pi exactly as they were that 4 e li e 2t month. gove-it•4°Prehen'sive , nn ar they wouldse h tbe e m x; and that woult t l pelsasn they e canl y e fo e rward and had some great b Ireland was no longer „ t a o . u e h aar f r ed , (111 ptinciples, of Protestantism. He for the ''' a riart tn t ne night Hon. Baronet the Secretary . . H Ile% iMent that there to be a religious equality in Ireland. th e et t h em ‘ was 0 .7 n ot th aw near what that equality was to be. Why had I ache. to 1: whole plan of the Government? He would ask tl,ttie a t . Y uPon the table of the house t.heirsispol,anto fee Ire en. reitistreducation in Ireland. They thoseought, Gentlemen from t e l and e, at 'un bills, in order that ti - , what e t l i d be Judges whether th ß e . G h o t ve ll rn o m m e u n r t a w bi o e ult a ac ru t b u e p t ti ed First ei promised. The Right Id lei of the Crown told them . that_ they Ireland, he consults the ecclesiastical authorities in the ,WL,hted to know whether he had consulted taot-ettee'esialtical authorities in England—( Hear, hear) —he Ito% t ? know whether he had consulted the authoriteeslin the sate, ia°l Lords, and what were their opinions, !ire ( ' Vice was given to them as in 1832, when they were whether de the - withdraw themselves for the passing of certain laws for d le 1 0 04 eer y. ? the people. If Charles James, of London, an "niatisf i j '''', Exeter, were to absent themselves on this Wtoo d 11,--if they were, he would be very glad,because it fleteattl.re them additional reasons for relieving them _on on a . taro n :: . aY from their Parliamentary duties. The Right H 11aset eft ` i i' 'aid he hoped the reminiscences of Maynooth . would he 'B4 li b " he much feared that the only reminiscences to the 0 44 '`°n• Baronet would be found in the recollection of tie andreproachespriein:erdsuiktng of certain friends, whose confidence ho°;" i n t° have lost, and in the remembrance of that degrading i. support afforded to him by those political opt). d profsial lepT support he had usurpe.d.—( Cheers. ) He h i e aettkriale,d that he would not occupy the House long, and ie f e eP his word; but independently of those charges e t thos n ' a , ° ,°a• and bigotry that had been unjustly levelled again, he ei te - ,''° had opposed this Bill—in the face of all those threats reenaphd vote as he began, and oppose this Bill as long as it L o °ld before the House.—(Chears.) oat orilar• RUSSELL —Sir, I am ready to address the House, % aides. ' g e nt, " ' as my Hon. Friend who has just sat down has laid o,_°°t p to the numerous petitiene which have been re ept .4 the table of this House on this subject, as well as out o °WA t ° the numerous letters which I have recei . ved from my ene4seeonstituents and others, in relation to this important tatioti:e.C-illear, hear.) Hid it not been for these conside silent nould have been been well contented to have given a after vote in favour of the second reading of this Eill ; but eft thttla numerous petitions which have been hid let s : h table of this House —after the various let from nic i le ll I have received from my constituents, and Illit,if, if i s objecting to this measure, 1 cannot entirely . satisfy Pora n " I do not on this ocOasion express my reasons for sup . - Non with this trieroure.—( Hear, hear.) I concur so fer in net ts _ with those who are opposed to me, as to consider that this ttria tletestirto of the very highest importabee—( Hear, lire t 3 2 That respect I do not entirely agree wih such of the hear)— Rill i e t :f sashaye spoken in favour of the second reading of this t_he c ause spoken it appears to me, the Right Hon. Gentleman t 'i t terel y t i : c en tl_ ... o t. f the Exehequer appeared to consider he i g h t Hon. _acid' ion of 1 7,00 , 0/. to the previous grant, r the ea parte_ Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home dio arn ent seemed to consider that the question of the en ':.! 1•4 2 ° . t uf Alaynooth had been settled by the Act not agree with either of those Right Hen. I.l:4l.4;:t4l:;dt;c.:niabnrael:volienfea hears hear. ) If it were merely a quesiiun re ign io 17'0001 , to the original grant, that question ) jaanidsedhauypeonbteheen m p i r s u ce p l us la e n d eon iu s e;thie eltedta'aflat n r, as the repairs of barracks at Portsmouth or 1;41:10111d have been proposed.—( Hear, hear.) It e been gated, that the present extent of the buildings was not sufficient--that there were not a sufficient i marcher of students in the establishment, and that an addi • tianal grout was necessai y to maintain a greater number— that there was not sufficient accommodation for the scholars, end thus a case might have been made out for incieasieg the vote by 17,000/.—( Hear, hear.) Tho , e who have el nays opposed the grant would no doubt have opposed ,his proposed addition to it; but when we con sider the smallness of the numbers of those who have hitherto opposed the grant to Maynooth, we cannot but come to the con. elusion that if Cho only question before the House had been whether or not we should have increased the grant by the amount of 17,000/., it would not have met with any great oppo sition.—( Hear. ) Neither can I agree with the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department, when he says that the whole principle of the question was de cided by the Act of 179'1. If I agreed with that principle, I should admit that the principle of the whole question of endow ment was settled at the same period.—( Hear, hear. ) The Act of 1792 merely allowed the Roman Catholics to found their own College for the education of their own clergy by funds raised among themselves, and the sum which was proposed and voted from year to year by Parliament, was merely a contri bution in aid of those funds.—( Hear, hear.) It was totally and entirely different from the measure now proposed—(Hear, hear)—it differed in degree—it differed in extent—from the measure now before the [louse; and thou . h I am far from saying that if we agree to this measure we must be forced to go still further, and to endow the llsmao Catholic Church in 'Wand ; yet it is impossible to controvert the position of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Merril) 'r for Newark, that, so far as the religious question is concerned, it will be decided by this resolution.—( Loud cheers. ) There then remains the other question ; if the taxation of this country is to be burdened with the maintenance of the Roman Catholic clergy, or if we are to take aesthing for their maintenance from the revenues of the Protestant Church.—( dear, hear.) If we are to devote any surelus which may remain, after providing for the wants of the Protestant. Church, to the endowment of the Roman Catholic Church.—( Hear, hear.) That, I admit, is a question of great difficulty, and that is a question which is yet left to be decided. But before we decide that we must consider the previous question, whether the Roman Catholic clergy themselves would be inclined to accept such a measure. —( Hear, hear.) But with regard to the mere State question which may arise as to the propriety of the endowment of the R man Cath die clergy of the State, I must own that in some respects such a measure is open to less objection than the measure which is now submitted to our consideration. Sir, the Roman Catholic clergy of Ireland have many duties to perform, which are performed by them in common with the Established Church of this country, and with the Presbyterian clergy of Scotland—such as reading to their flock, informing and instructing their parishioners in the word of God, adminis tering to their spiritual consolation, bestowing on them acts of mercy, charity, and kindness.—( Hear, hear.) All this 1 be. lieve that the clergy in ad three of the countries perform. I believe that as a body they are all useful and charitable men. —( Loud cheers.) But when the question to be discr.ssed relates to the endowment of the College and to the theology which ;s taught —then, I say, that, as a question of principle, it is a geestioe of even greater importance than the question of the endowment of tee clergy—( Hear, hear.) I come to the consideration of this question, Sir, as thoroughly impressed with its importance as Ccose Membiee who are opposes, to the measure can possibly be—as thorough:) , impressed with its ins porta.nce as those repreestitatives of Ireland can be who have accepted it as a measure of conciliation and kindness towards their country --(Loud cheer's.) But, Sir, I cannot bat con sider that the s.eceoteoce of this measure by the Roman Catholic petiole of Ireland, and I believe that its ac ceptance by thew, as a eeasui e of conciliation, is an undoubted fact.—( Hear) I cannot but consider that that acceptance of the people of Ireland constitutes a most impor tant element in the c oesicieratien of this question, as regards the state of Ireland. Yon have s tatistics dreadful to read, showing the condition of the Irish people—statistics showing their wants and their state of destitution—statistics, showing how many of them live in cabins without room{—how many live in cabins without windows—how . many in cabins with only two rooms, Bawl so going on to show how large a proportion of Lbws people are in a state of poverty. You have likewise a people who live in a state of poverty who beloi g to the Roman Catholic . religion, whose clergy have to depend not only on the c ortontrib leutions of the farmers and persons sem what in a comfab state subsistence, hut likewise or, the pence and miserable earnings of the poorest class of the people. You have at the same time in that country an Estahl,stiod Church very richly en dowed—so richly endowed that the whole sum now proposed for Salaynooth and the late grant vreuld hardly exceed the revenues of three of the prelates of that Established Church. Well, Sir, is not that a care in which any measure that can be proposed that will conciliate the affec tions of that people —an y measure that you can adopt without any violence to your constitution, is it not at least wor thy of your consideration ; and is it not one whic h you should hesitate much before you reject? The opinions of the people of Ireland , as far as I can collect them on this subject, appear to nee to bel that would thtt hheye the meansarereadyto roefceciovneciylciautringgrathoet with gratitude. affections of that people. It does not trench on the revenue of the Prutestant Church, as no doubt the- majorit y of thi House would pronounce against breaking in on those reve nues, for the purpose of a Catholic establishment. It does not offend any religious feelings of the Roman Catholic clergy, It is not like an endowment of the Roman Catholic clergy, :n which there would be great difficulty in the first instance. , Then my Hon. Friend the Me mber for Finsbury, who h is strange to say, an ally of my Hon. Friend the Member for te University of Oxford on th is sub j ect. —my Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbury says, that the Protestant Dissenters are ready to agree that there should be no endowment —that there should he no State Church—that the voluntary principle should prevail, as well with regard to episcopal establishments as with regard to the Roman Catholic Church. Now, Sir, this appears highly liberal—it appears to be doing justice to the people of Ireland, according to what many of their organs con sider to be justice, but in point of fact it is no concession whatever, if no practical use can be made of it.—( Hear, hear.) Let us look to what must be the feelings of the people of Ireland—if you go bandying from one side to the other this question, without ever coming to a practical measure of this sort. Supposing we were to say—suppose my Hon. Friend were to say—let us abolish entirely the Established Church of Ireland ; let everything be voluntary—let us adopt the same great high-sounding principles—let every man pay for the religion which he professes, and let an man have a con scientious burden, by paying the mii•ister of the religion from which he dissents. Why, everybody knows that the great ma jority of this House would place a negative on such a proposi tion ; and I might say, supposing there was a dissolution of this house to-morrow, or at any other time, that those who oppose Alaynooth would not come here fJr the purpose of en forcing the voluntary principle—you would still find a great majority against any demand you might make for the abolition of the State Church. Even though the Ministry came forward arid said, " Let us make some endowment for a small portion of the clergy." Then, supposing my Elan. Friend and those who think with him were to succeed, let the voluntary principle prevail—let there be no State endowment of religion—let every man provide a religion for himself—this State endowment would be reiected will scorn and contempt by the House. But in the meantime what would be the con ditioe of the people of Irelanst? Way if they found one party refusing to break in on the Established Church, and another party absolutely refusing any sort of endowment, what is their condition? They would find that only a small minority of the people of Ireland are cared for by the Legislature of this coun try; they would find :het. England and Scotland were opposed to their wishes—that whether it be in the shape of an endowment nr whether in the shape of a voluntary priaciiile, that which is beneficial to Ireland is rejected—they would net consider the different parties, hut they would say every preposition for ou • benefit is rejected by the House of Cnnaioila, representine Great Britain. Sir, if that is the case, I say this peoposed remedy of the abolition of all State churches, ao.l tbe adoption of the voluntary principle is totally illusory. It is d +tiding and defrauding the people of Ireland. It is to ale, we cannot give you that endowment, but we will abolish all State churches. Sir, I die not agree with what was said by my Right lion. Friend the Member for Dun;sarvon, with resp..ct to the Protestant Dissenters of this country. I thank they are men to whom, with regard to all questions of civil liberty, this country is deeply indebted Ido believe, when questions of equality in p iint of civil privileges were under consideration that they wero more forward than any men in their wishes that their Roman Catholic fellow-sujects should be placed in that equality. They have taken this gat-96.n of State endowments strongly in their minds, aid they have likewise the strong est religious feelings in favour of the Protestant faith, and against the Roman Catholic religion. But, at the same time, I do believe that when this question is further considered by them, when they see the result of the rejection of Bills like this, which would beconeidered as an injustice towards Ireland, they will feel that it is necessary in some shape or other to endeavour to remedy the grievances of that country. For my part, I cannot see without alarm and without pain the declarations which are made in the petitions that have been laid on the table of this House, with respect to the religious part of this question. I can not read the petitions pre sented by the ministers of the Established Church, and by the Protestant Dissenters, without deeply regretting there should be so strong a feeling, and I should say, such un just prejudices respecting the Roman Catholic religion. — ( Loud cries of " Hear, hccr.") I say so because at the time when that measure, called Roman Cathclic Emanci pation, was brought under the consideration of Par liament, the same ' statements were made, the same charges against the Roman Catholic religion. Roman Cathos lies were designated idolators, followers of Anti-Christ, and other such degrading appellations, which I shall not fatigue the House by repeating. The question of the Roman Catho lic Relief Bill came before the House of Lords. I have looked threugh the speeches spoken by our prelates on that occasion, both for and against the measure, and I cannot see in the speeches any encouragement of the phrases so used. The Archbishop of Canterbury, the Bishop of London, and the Archbishop of York, although placed in Opposition, on political grounds, in discussing the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, had distinctly admitted that the Roman Catholic Church was a part of the Christian Church, and the other bishops used similar language.—(Hear, hear.) I find that the Bishop of Llandaff especially observed of the Roman Catholic Church—that if it did not contain the spirit of Chris tianity, where was the authority of the ministers of the Church of England? Were I of opinion that it was other wise, it would give me the greatest pain to think myself com pelled, as a Protestant, to hold such language and entertain such a belief of so large a portion of my fellow -subjects. But, Sir, I regret to se, that the intolerance on this subject, the feelings which have come down to us from the Re formation do, I fear, still exist both on the one side and the other.—( Hear, hear.) When I read among the charges against Maynooth certain doctrines and dogmas cherished and retained by that Church seemingly so repulsive ; and when I see on the other side the bitter feelings of hostility manifested against the Roman Catholic Church by those of another persuasion, I cannot but feel that the spirit which ex isted in so fierce a shape at the time of the Reformation, should not at this time be softened and abated.—( Lauri cries of " Hear, hear.") I perceive that the feelings engendered by the reli gious war which then took place remain more durable than those originated by any civil war that I have ever read or heard of. We all remember that beautiful passage of Virgil, where he describes that, in some fu- ure time, the husbandman, in turning up the fields upon which the civil wars took place, would there find spears and helmets covered with rust, the almost only remnants of forgotten battles. But I think the weapons with which rival parties coutended at the time of the reforma tion will never be allowed to rust, but they will be brought forward by those dehatine these quee ions bright and burnished, and whenever qeestions that excited religions differences in which that cord is at all touched, these old spears, worn hel. metre flags. an 1 banners, will be brought forward, and all the animosity of the kith century revived. A wilt has been ex pressed that all parties would yet unite in the same creed, and that the country wont,' no 1 .nger he distracted with reli gious dissensiens Suppose that could he th 3 case —one in which all contending parties could unite. An attempt of this sort has been made in Spain, in which country I have res ch id such a ed for some time, and witnessed the dreadful evils by whi state of things was accomplished. It was impossible in acountry like teis that anyth ng like a unity of doctrine, and a onenes! of Church could he established. But those who hold different opinions front us, who conscientiously differ from us in religious matters can hold their own opinions—we can give credit to them for good Christians, whether Catholics or Pro- Protestants. Whether of the Church of England or the Church of Scotland, we may at least discuss subjects with a view tonne general benefit and welfare of the country wi thout exing these animosities, which still, unfortunately, prevail among the people. In saying this I aloft remark that I cannot eon. THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 19, 1845. sent to accede to the prayers of the petitions cf the people cosi They were told, however, that it was too late to act upon the subject. I think that if we were to say that we w °oil that principle. The Hon. Member for Mantrose had ap not support a Church which we considered anti scriptural, th i pealed to him as having, in his early life, been connected effects would be pernicious in the extreme. In the first plate , with India , and he asked him how he could consistently the effects would be enormous. We mute go beyond advocate zny exclusive mo d e o f religious instruction ? this question. —( Cries of " Hear, hear.") We Inuit lie thanked that li on . M em b er f or th e delicate manner in go farther. We must extend it to the colonies. We must which he had referred to one of his relatives nost dear to him make a firm, rigid, and unbending rule, which in a few —he meant his late father. First of all, then, he did not be years would shake your empire to pieces.—( Heer, hear, and lieve that the British Parliament, for good or evil—in respect great cheering.) Hut admit, for the sake of the maintenam e of the matter to which the lion. Member had referred, and of the Protestant religion, that such a step should be necessary, to which the lion. Member Om Canterbury hail afterwards adsait for a moment that we are ready to take all the cons , - adverted, namely, that the Presidency of Bombay had made a quences—admit that you are ready to do tins—have you any distinct stipulation that the Church of Rome should re- right, in such a ea s e, to legislate for the people of Ireland ? tam its privileges—had any authority to interfere. But Are you not bound to say thi: :---" We engaged at the time there was another question for consideration, which of the Union to govern Ireland on principles of equality, to was still more important. for the purposes of that consider Irishmen as we consider Englishmen, to allow them to House, and to which he would advert for a few minutes. The have the same rights and privileges as ourselves, to consider came Hon. Member who had addressed the question to him every question regarding the n as a question regarding relative to India said that they had no right to consider any ourselves." But then, Sir, if that be the case, it is thing but those mere contents which the Bill embodied ; that totally inconsistent with the case of your saying that they were not at liberty to consider the necessary conse your religion is so exclusively true, that it cannot bear any- quences of their measure, namely, the endowment of the thing like equality, nor even anything like favour to the great Roman Catholic Church —to consider nothing more than that majority of the people of Ireland. And if that be so, if such contained in the Bill, namely, the endowment of the Roman is the strictness of your religious principles, I defy you to step Catholic clergy of Maynooth—that, he apprehended, would be short until you come to the repeal of the union, to which we a very narrow view of the question. fie woul I call the are all opposed. Sir, I say, if you do not meet the Irish people attention of the House to the statement made by the in this way—if you are not ready to fulfil the compact of the Secretary of State for the Home Department. He ad union not only to the letter, but with all the affection tor mitten' that this 'measure could not be longer delayed, your countrymen in Ireland which you feel for your country• an expression which he (sir R. Inglis) considered not likely to men in England—then you should be prepared to say to the I secure a very favourable acceptance among those for whose people of Ireland, "We will not grant this boon ; we will peculiar benefit it was to be directed. His Hon. Friend the I not make you this grant, therefore we will give you b ack your Member for Newark re p resente d hi mse lf —( Laughter)—and he own legislature, and deal in future with your own affairs."— said that they must propose te go further. The Honourable (Hear, hear.) I own it does appear to me that you have Member for Cork said that this was a great earnest of greater but one of these two courses to adopt—if you do not agree to things; but, with reference to the Bill itself, he called it a this proposition for the support of the religion of the Irish paltry educational grant. He ( Sir R. Inglis) felt that it was people, you must dissolve the (Won ; but if you wish to main- so; it was a renewal of Peter's pence—it was a new tribute to tain the Union, yoe must treat the Roman Catholic people of the Church of Rome. The Hon. the Secretary of War had Ireland in the same spirit as sou have considered the P r oms. said that this was but the precursor of more. Of mote, aye, tent people of England.—((soud aheers. ) Well, then, 1 say the endowment of the Roman Catholic Church. lie just that this is not a question of the mere consideration of a few touched that question, and then at once turned from it.— thousands a year ;it is the carrying out of an Act of Parlia- ( Great laughter.) Another Member of the Cabinet, merit fifty years old, and therefore you are bound to carry it the First Corntanssioner o f the Woods and Fores's , out if you are desirous of maintaining the u nion of the had used the same familiar phrase, and said that this was but two countries inviolate.— (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") one step. Now, one step must certainly mean a sec ond.— Remember that we, at this side of the House , have had no - ( Laugh t er.) Then another Right lion. Gentleman the Chan thing to do with the making of this proposition — we merely cellor of the Exchequer had specifically said—nothing. — ( Great say we concur in the proposition. ant are prepared to wee in laughter.) Now a d th at h e cou ld d raw from these conclu favour of the second reading of the Bill, and not because, it is sions, conclusions half admitted by the Members of the Go a preposition of an exclusively religious character..--( Hear. ) vernment was, th a t th ere would be at an after period an en- I cannot conclude without exproesing my belief that the re- dowment of the Catholic clergy, and that in 1816, or at so me jection of this measure will be productive of the same bitter- future time, the Government would sooner or laser proceed to ness of feeling that would be certain to follow the rejection of lay some such measure before the House. The Hon. Member a like proposition if made in favour of the Protestant Church the late Secretary of War (Mr. Ellice) had also stated that in England.—(Cheers.) If such a proposition were made in they were now embarking on a new course. What this House, and that I saw a majority against it, yet so con- did that mean ? What, but the endowment of the vinced am I of its justice that even a majority of my con- Roman Catholic Church; and yet they were told that they stituents should not deter me from voting in its favour.-- were to consider nothing but what wes embodied in that Bill. (Cheers.) If we are to go out for the benefit of the A new course of policy was to be adopted--yes. a new course, country, we are not to yield to every impulse we when they exchanged a small sum fora permanent endowment may receive ; but we should aen upon a great measure of this of three times the amount, fixed on a similar scale of security sort, only as men desirous of keeping in view the cause of --namely, the vested civil establishment of the country. truth, of freedom, and of justice.—(Loud cheers ) The Pro. In a speech made by the lion. Member fur Cork, on the 14th teetant Dissenters are arrayed here against this Bill ; but 1 April, 1845, he found an allusion made to the anticipated cannot forget that there was a time when those Dissenters were restitution of property once held by the Roman Cath thus in petitioners before the House for the purpose of being relieved Ireland. Now, he wished to know if the House was prepared from what they cone ived to be burdens e on their coascienen to admit the principle involved in this phrase " restitution." If and complaining of the privation of civil liberty, which worked it began in Ireland, would it end there? No, there were many a great injustice towards them. We then in opposition urged in that and the other House of Parliament to whom that that injustice upon the H o use, and we obtained the concession phrase restitution of abbey and Church lands— ( Hear, hear) — of the repeal of the Act which afflicted them. Again, the would not awaken most gratefnl recollections, or, at any rate, Roman Catholics of Ir e land were afflicted with civil disabili- which would nut excite pleasing anticipations. But, if it he ties ; mid the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite acknowledged, just that the Church property in Ireland, which had been held when he passed the Emancipation Act, that it was owing to by the Protestants and their successors since the our continued support that those claims were carried. Such Reformation, .should be restored to the Roman Catholics, was the avowal which the Right lion. Gentleman made at the why should not the same priciple be claimed and acted end of the discussion on the Bill he introduced for the removal up on i n E ng l an d? If they were to endow the Chu-ch of Rome of the Roman Catholic disabilities. Now, it was not that we in I re l an d, w hy s hould it not be endowed in England? There wished to favour the Protestant. Dissenters, that we sought to was n o thi ng t o prevent it, and the House might depend upon detiver them from their disabilities. It was not to favour the it one would follow the other. They could, perhaps, form a Roman Catholics that we relieved them from their grievances. better opinion of this measure from the opinions of foreigners, No, 1 trust, that we so acted upon that occasion, as we have and what was the impression of their continental neighbours? upon all occasions acted, because the cause with which the Whatever might be said of the leading articles which appeared Protestant Dissenters and the Roman Catholics were bound in the English newspapers, there was no doubt tho e that ap up, was the cause of justice ; and that we carried that cause, peered in the papers of the Continent, particularly those of not however, without many refusals.—( Cheers.) If we had France, were f a r more important and influential, because they not acted then without reference to the particular expression of were generally written by influential statesmee. And what opinion at the time, the Protestant Dissenters would not have said the Journal des Debats on this measure ? Why, it was been thus relieved. If the Roman Catholics now find that we this, " The measure of the Prime Minister of England is have not the power to help them the whole of their grati- neither more nor less than a revolution of the policy pursued tude will be turned towards the Government which has pro- by England since the Reformation. It is the greatest conces posed this measure.—(" No," from Mr. Hedinnton• ) My sion yet made by the Protestants, without excepti ng th e Hen. Friend says " No," but, with the exception of the Hon. Emancip a tio n Act of 1829• And such oas the feeling of the Member for Dundalk, I believe, the general feeling will be as great body who had forwarded remonstrancet against the mea- I state, and I am not surprised at it, for it is the common sure. They did riot object to their Roman Catholic fellow course in political events. If the course I am to pursue were subjects enjoying equal civil rights with them, but they still solely founded on the support of this particular measure I thought the measure they were discussing would lead should not repine ; and Ido not repine; it is the °pity course to another of a more important character, and even- I could adopt ; it is the one, that in public life can be tolerated tually result in the downfal of Protestantism.—( Hear. ) to act as we think in each situation we shall best advance the Yet if by this series of measures they were led to embark in great interests of our country—( Cheers)—and to take our one which woul t occasion the endowment of the Roman chance whether we obtain favour or distil our. Catholic Church, then he thought that the House ought to be " Nor love thy life, nor Late ; but what thou liv'st very careful to what they assented. He wished to ask his Live well, how long or short permit to Heaven." Right lion. Friend whether this was the end or the beginning, —( Loud cheers ) This aentimei tis as applicable to political whether this was simply to authorise the education of 500 as to natural life, and for myself I would rather retire into young men, or was it to go on to the endowment of the Roman private life, I would rather leave the business of this House to Catholic Church ? He would ask whether there was any ul others, who may possess the people's confidence, than attempt terior measure! in contemplation, for he thought that if a great to injure this country by giving a vote against a measure statesman had been four years in the uncontrolled possession of which I think the welfare of my country demands.—( Hear.) power to go on with such a question as this he would have Sir, then my belief is, that this measure, as proposed, is chalked out for himself some particular course. He had been likely to be received gratefully in Ireland.--( Hear, hear.) surprised to hear the other night the Right Hon. Baronet the You may say that their gratitude will be misplaced—that it Secretary for the Home Department, when this measure was is a paltry favour. lam not to judge of that. But lam to under consideration—he was surprised to hear that Right Hon. judge of the effect—the real effect—which this measure will Baronet say that he could not see the propriety of taking the produce. I will not take it as if it were the last of a series, funds from the existing establishment in Ireland. This was a and were the crowning act of a long course of justice to the curious phrase to come from the lips of the most determined people of Ireland. No, Sir; I shall maintain, as I have hi- opponent of the Appropriation Bill.—( Hear, hear.) Was the therto maintained, that with regard to the civil and political most powerful excitement which had prevailed since the Re privileges of the people of that country you have yet touch to form Bill to be disregarded? He could not look at this as a do—( Hear, hear)—that those measures to which the Right has'y question. It was of little matter to him who sat on the Hon. Baronet the Home Secretary alluded last night, fall con- benches on one side of the House, and who on the other. But siderably short of that which the people of Ireland have a right if they considered the petitions, almost without number, to require of you, to put them on an equality with the people and then looked at the general expression of the feeling of England.— (Hear, hear.) I think with respect to their of the country universally, firmly, spontaneously expressed ecclesiastical state, that that great anomaly of a large en- on this question—he could not but perceive that if this measure dowed Church for a small minority of the people is an evil were carried it would be carried against the desire of the which, without entering into the ways in which it might be whole of the Christian people of the country. lie would tell remedied, Parliament must consider.—( Hear, hear.) I will the Right Hon. Baronet that he had lost the good will of the not concede that opinion. I will not deny that after this mea- people of England. This was not like a mere political affection, sure is passed I shall either in support of some proposition whiles you might gain to-morrow as you lost it yesterday. from others, or in my own proposition, endeavour to obtain They had given him their confidence because they believed for the people of Ireland that justice which I think was that he had a regard for the great institutions of the country. — long and cruelly denied to them.--(Loud cheering.) If (Hear, hear.) But he could assure him that in dis. you will permit me for a few moments longer, I would beg of appoieting these expectations he had forfeited the this House to consider how much this country has been in- confidence of the people--( Herr, hear) —and in losing that jured, how many administrations have been disturbed and rent confidence, he had lost the power of governing them, and in asunder, by these Irish questions.—( Hear, hear.) I will not losing that, he had lost the source of his political power. lie go back to any very remote period, but going back to the time would refer to the Hon. Member for Newark (Mr. Gladstone), of the union, I find that Mr. Pitt, then in the height of his to the determined and energetic Member fur Stockport (Mr. power, had decided upon an Irish question, and that an Cobden), and he would ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether Irish question broke up the Government of Mr. Pi tt. Mr. on an y of the g reat q uestions to which they . were c ommitted, they Pitt intended a union between the two countries. H e in-- had either of them yielded th e i r principles? In the course tended, as far as can be discovered from his subsequent speec hes, which he (Sir R. In g li s) had taken, he had compromised in addition to that union, a complete relief from civil and nothing, and he hoped that he should be able to maintain that political disabilities for the Roman Catholics, and a rovision course to the end. The Hon. and Gallant Commodore thehis Ministry the Roman Catholic Church.—(Hear, hear. The Member for Merylebone had appealed to his the Gal followed Ministry of Mr. Pitt fell, and his firm Administration was fears. In his own profession it was well known that him in justice and his by the weak Administration of Mr. Adding:on. lent Officer had never known fear, and he would tell doin Mr. Pitt afterwards returned to power, but he did not retutn return, that on this occasion he was with his former partners, with Lord Grenville, and others, him justice, and he fait that he need riot entertain fear. who agreed with him upon the Catholic question, He begged to assure the House that he now regarded t Hon. back and who did not agree with him in coming great ,question of Protestant principle, ready .to whatever otherf elt ea.. back without the question of Catholic Emancipation being Members might think to the contrary, and while he proposed to Parliament. his administration was strong for a tisfied on that point, and that he saw his way it fur there were men of the highest abil.ty in it. In 1807 course he was about to take, he would act and vote, in it was broken, it fell upon an Irish question—a Catholic ques- he had already announced, perfectly regardleas of consequences. sloue lion, especially affecting Ireland. You had then an adminis- For he looked upon the discharge a his duty h ia n t d he would tration formed on the ground of refusing all concessions ; that upon that question as of paramount importance, is to conclude way clearly. theint the did not last many years, and Lord Castlereagh declared it was leave consequences . to Providence. He "w begged motion of necessary that some concession should be made to the Roman by saying that he most heartily concurred with the _ , Catholics. In the time of war, when this country was threat- his Hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle .—( Hear,. d at the ened with peril, or when it was not in danger from Sir R. PEEL—Sir, I trust we have now arrive foreign wars, the Catholic question was opposed or supported. close of this discussion—a discussion which has been protracted .t has not This state f things was continued from 1812 to 1829, and to a period unusually, and unprecedentedly long, but i to devote to it, heir.) the Catholic question weakened every Administration that was occupied near the time that it was necessary carried on in the meantime. We h a ve h a d th e s p ec t a cle of considering the vast magnitude and importancenoftthee s.eu.bis'etee, Secretaries of State opposing each other on questi o ns the most under discussion, and the sentiments elicited i It el Is ' e important and vital to our domestic policy.--( Hear, hear.) In In the course of the debate it has been my g oo f d t l h o e rt s u u n h e .e t e o t 18E4 you had an Administration which contained many Mem- listen to sentiments and feelings which the nature o bets opposed to the Catholic claims, but in 1829 those claims naturally called for.—(Cheers.) were conceded. In 1830, in consequence, as I think, Honourable Members, declaring they oss of their very much of the decision upon that question, the Ministry to pursue, even at the hazard of the side of the House was broken up. Earl Grey came into power—the seats. I have heard many Members on this bile I have heard Reform Bill was carried. The Ministry who car- expressing their approval of the measure, w any conscientious, ried it had at first an immense majority in the many more, actuated no doubt by feelings eV a as n s n ur o e un th ci o n s g e House of Commons. Everything was easy because declaring that they differed from the former, permitting party it was a strong Government. In 1834 that Ministry the course they intended to pursue, wit was weakened and divided upon the question relating to the or political considerations to interfere. those at whose hands not long after Earl Grey himself retired from office. That oppesition I have encountered, I hoOnenathe other hand—l now state of Ireland. Four members of the Cabinet seceded, and Honourable Members that, however dee r ply I may regret the Ministry before long ceased to exist. Another Ministry was I have met it.—(Loud cheers.) I must say that the example formed, and dissolved by a vote of this House on a question speak of both sides of the House such — as is highly honourable to affecting Ireland. A view Ministry came in in 1835, during of those Hon. Members li v e - and just ; and I have no In consequence of what had taken place in 1834, they believed it to be t r a i t ' i such conduct is highly the whole course of their existence having a small majority. them, because no doubt they is have pursued that course because the whole course of their existence of power was hesitation in bothsaying to I begatnod t those who have supported, and weakened and crippled; but it was owing to a honourable opposed the measure, for, in adopting that decision with regard to the state of Ireland, a difference of opi- those who e ha b y k of their political station.—( Hear, hear. ) ing that country, that they were weakened—( Hear, hear)— tl ris to this time, abstained from making any observation nion with regard to the measures they had brought in respect- eo ie urs . e, th relinquishing eopp anger of their constituents, and have run I have taken other occasions, and I will still take other occa- 1 have, up .. by the observations .1 have heard during the ex bates from 1835 to 1841. But what I want to show now is, cited within rise, sions to refer to the particular questions involved in those de- upon this discussion, and whatever feelings may have been d - hope that this House would not be scarcely a year in which Governments have not been weakened, feeling of deep interesta o n f that since the time of the Union till 11345, there has been debate, they have been overpowered by, and merged into, one this House who have hitherto this measure.—( Hear, hear.) You and Administrations formed and destroyed upon questions in a party to the rejection te surprised that this measure should not some degree relating to the Roman Catholic religion and to will not, perhaps, as the firm friends of the Roman Catholics ' without any reference to war, or any other contingency, if you been known the state of the people of lreland.—( Hear, hear.) Why, have emanated those in that those who have brought it forward can see that you can proceed by any measure to tranquillise of Ireland, or . forfeited your confidence.—( Hear, bear.) t w h h a i t eh cou r n ar t t r i y e — s g th e a n t er i a f ily yo m u acyansgh,iete_onupaonny which h e o y f ou pol m ic a y y in et s H h e oul t d hat hav as e I fol b lo e w g the yeu rejection t may, all I will say is, if weThave of Oxford tells use:that we have you will add immeasurably to the strength of this country.— you may think fit, .1 ) length come to some concord on questions relating to Ireland, forfeited the cOnfidendee)eroiyfvetnhuitisstseoildfleouoffisfetth,hiwdHjiiltsohiruoedsogoreana,wriidß:uf.yatnohtriuhoesrhnisoecoutmoosnteshfieaao...s 'o only of the g a rea st t i sarty we had in o t f he (Loud cheers ) Is this question—is this short review here deuce from us, but ü b t e d vs o eurrns n eio o tty t t given—a view of the question that has been taken by the pe- quences that will titioners who have carried their petitions to the table of this sure.—(Loud cheeuerns.i House—have they considered this question in reference to the Member foe th to power and strength of this country ? If not, let me beg of forfeited the confidence , them to consider—differing fiom them, with respect for their this House, but also en thinkNv will l e will ore powerful virtue and their strong acme of religion which makes them ap- party out of i t .conditioncof Ireland, but i sense of public duty proach this House—let me, at the same time, if, in considering and to the course If hich this debate has taken , I this question, I have ventured to use my own independent admit that nothingcould induce her one who looks fairly — have incurred, of " Hear, judgment —let me attempt to vote in favour of a Bill which Majesty's ministers to incur the risk which we may tend, in some degree, to heal those stilt bleeding wounds, and are incurring .—( Cries an hear .") It cannot and to place Ireland in that position which she ought to be— be doubted by Y . nduct, that we have been • governed by a the most improving, if not the most happy part of her Ma- say wisely to our tube eo the e one confidence looks interests and to conciliate the f g jesty's dominions. ' The Noble Lord concluded amidst leud wish to promote t ., (Cheers.) In 1843 there fe elin g s of and prolonged cheering. the Irish people . was a formi ' Ireland. There were immense Sir R. INGLIS said that of all the important speeches dable excitement in and peace ofthis meetings— which he had ever heard he considered that of the Noble Lord threatening to the tranquillity whole country We determined the Member for London the most important .—( Hear, hear.) —or even of the empire to resist that move- Thedeeermined to Noble Lord avowed to the House that there were other meet—(Cheers) —we check it—e(Cheers)— would be 'none acceptable to the people of Ire- but we did not see any necessity. giveand there was none—for measures which to extraordinary lag t. It had been objected to the petitions presented to the calling upon the Legislature powers. to promote h those the House against this measure t hat the persons fr om whom they We resisted all the incitements. hasty and precipitate action, e of thts established that the came did not un 'eratand the doctrines of their own Church. but when a case was public peace was d upon the jun.i • But he would defy . any Gentleman to show any statement in in danger, we retiejustice of the case,and ofthe Constitution. the numerous petitions which had been presented to the House enforced the powers There was at the that if we did not on this question, which was not supported by the time a universal feeling And the We vindicate the law ehlef o.hrnamovoeueurtslei s t ened intendedt o which we now doctrines of the liturgy and the homilies of the Church. we should be accused of He and the Hon. Members who supported him in that question, measures which we havesi since taken, calculated to ' repudiated in the most earnest manner the supposition that propose, have been_ Ireland. happiness, and formed any part of the question, at the same time that to conciliate the affections, money he was willing to admit that an increase of funds might make an fore, the objections. do not come from the English ministers, engine that might otherwise be poweitlees n oownrful in mischief. or those interested in the the maintenance of the P of the people rotestant cause. that time, whether --( Hear, hear.) Still that was n their objectioe to the in- —Olean ofit was that hear ' ) mor e lively recollection crease. Their objection was tothe principle of the measure. you had a the state cf I know not, but But then they might be asked the question so repeatedly put Ireland in 1843, you did almost of a measure brought in that House in the course of on th thtis subject? What do yo ea unanimously approevsed y permitted, sanctonedin b e y d the Govorn mean by your religious scruples He was not 1 went, which r esP Roman Catholic Bishops and to _encouraged scandalously, and ludicrouslyinconsistent. No. 'they I the endowment of grossly, money for the building ofCatholic could of a sum of money to a prin. the advance of , Roman did riot support a grant .h ers.) eagle which they could not recognise as founded places of worship.—(L e Well, but if you did that, why to be revived now ? not inconsistent, for they did net pro- are rel • iious objections . co _ (Cheers.) You in truth. They were rinciple in which the (I'd 'appointed five Roman Catholic mmissioners (there y I not . were . ten mote the support of that p ' by the House app y five necessary ' He had been permitted it to make the . Commissioners .PP believe. and he would make as ertion often, . • le of doing that which his conscience con- ' mission were defrayed out of the public funds ;we did that in upon the principle his votes were given accordingly. Ile order that we should institute and encourage a voluntary en dured right, and the teachings of his conscience , dowment of the Roman Catholic dared not compromise had beenled _._. be. his • hbonr discretion of the C with Crowe, respect to the cause neighbour appointment of some of those Commissioners_we proposed that three of tho e should be prelates of the Roman Catholic I Church—they felt it their duty to accept the appointment, and they acted from public and most tlisinti rested motives. 1 hey believed that you were honest in your intentions in doing an act of justice in a kind manner; and I trust that the result ef that Act was to break up that, in some degree, formidable combination of the laity, clergy, and physical strength which then existed. These prelates had great difficulty to encounter in undertaking to co-operate with us in the execution of that measure. There was a formidable agitation directed against them, but confiding in the purity of their motives, and be lieving in the honourable intentions of the Government, they resisted the force of that agitation, and we had the satis faction of seeing the prelates of the Established Church and the prelates of the Roman Catholic religion acting in friendly concert for the promotion of a common object. Let me say, that that was no small object to obtain. By the execution of ' the first Act—that Act which received almost the unanimous approbation of this H tt e, and there was no violation of public principle—no sacrifice of the interests of that Protestant re lieion to which I trust I firmly adhere, and the doctrines of which I hold in as high estimation as any of my Hon. Friends around me. But the result of the measure of justice offered in the spirit of kindness was that which I have described. It was an encouragement to proceed in the same spirit. Ido not say it was an encouragement to make any concession inconsistent with religious principles and constitu tional p-inciples; and I say no more than that it was a marked encouragement to proceed in the course of conciliation and justice. We had then to consider what eourse we should take with respect to Maynooth. It was forced upon us. Neither we, nor you, can escape the consideration. What will you do with the College of Maynooth? You supported it for fifty years. 111 y Honourable Friend (Sir Robert H. Inglis) to prove the great difficulty of argument, makes the avowal that he is prepared to withdraw thegrant. Sir, I am not. —( Cheers. ) When opposed to her Majesty's Government, 1 came down here expressly to support them in the maintenance of that grant. I do not really believe that there can be ten men in this House who, after having voted for the endowment Act of last year— having acted in cordial concert with the Roman Catholic Pre • fates who constituted the Commission ;for the execu tion of that Act—l do not believe there are ten men who think it would be possible for U 3 to come down this year, and state that we have conscientious scruples to prevent our conti nuing the grant to the C ;liege of Maynooth. What would be the feeling of the whole Roman Catholic community on such an avowal? We contend it is not merely a vote. You passed three Acts of Parliament for cementing the connexion with that institution. You appointed a visitor, and you appointed trustees, and you subject their bye-laws to the revision of the Lord-Lieu tenant ; and the nomination of the President depends upon his approbation. The relations in which you stand to May nooth have existed for 51 years, and can any one conceive it possible that I, for instance, who in 1840 thought it impossible to withhold the grant to that institution, should advise the House of Commons to separate itself from all connexion with it ? Surely there can be few who think that course desirable. Shall we continue the grant? Sir, I say that is a course worse even than the discontinuance of the vote. Some Honourable Gentlemen have doubted the ac curacy of the statement which I made with regard to Maynooth. The Right Hon. Gentleman read some account which he had received of the comfortal.le situation of the students, and appearance of the building. Sir, I believe that I shall be confirmed by those who have been there in all 1 said—namely, that it is an institution professedly supported by the Government and Parliament, and is in a 1 condition utterly unworthy of the patronage of this House. I find what I believe to be a much more correct account than that to which the Right Hon. Gentleman has referred. It was quoted by a Noble Lord, who is be:ter acquainted with the state of Ireland than almost any other Peer in the House of Lords—l mean Lord Monteagle—who quoted from a book which was written in the year 1834. It contained an accu rate description of the disagreeable necessities to which the students in Maynooth were exposed. This writer said that no Englishman could conceive who did not witness the state of things which prevailed at Maynooth. ( Hear, hear.) The dining-room, the kitchen, and students'-room, were all the same, and the same writer asked why should the condition of the place be so shamefully re duced ? And yet (said the Right Hon. Baronet), this is the place in which those Roman Catholic students are to be edu cated, and to whom you assign some 9,0001. a year? Some of the objections which have been urged against Maynooth only confirm my opinion of the policy of altering thissystem. My Hon. Friend the Member for Dublin said that the Maynooth priests took a part in the late agitation. Can you be sur prised at it ? The manner in which the grant was given— the amount of that grant—so far from affording the means of a liberal and enlightened education, compelled them to make their education exclusively theologian, and compelled them to make that theology exclusively polemical. What has been the consequence of the vote that you gave to Maynooth ? Three professors of theology had been appointed—three professors living on some 100/.lor 120/. a year, endowed by you for teaching the doctrines of the Roman Catholic faith. Is it, I ask, any practical compensation to them ; or i 3 it from dread of a violation of principle to you, in that niggardly and parsimonious way. I read an account in the evidence given in 1826, of the condition of the Professors of Greek and Latin at Alaynooth. A gentleman, highly dis tinguished for his acquirements, and who had gained every prize, was asked what ho was, before this Commission. lie re plied, "the professor of Greek and Latin." He was then asked if he received anything from the annual vote. He said that he received 801. a year Irish, thirty guineas of which were de ducted on account of groceries and other necessaries. Can we continue that state of things ? Do we violate any principle by improving it?—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") If so, Sir, I cannot be any party to the continuance of snch a state of things. They could not send out theologists to be parish priests of Ireland, clergymen capable of instructing their flacks. who had received an education of this sort. We pro pose to increase the comforts of life, and better the condition of the professors. We propose to hold out to them induce ments, in order that they may remain longer there. We wish to have men of high acquirements and good character. At present they devote themselves to this toil, at this miserable salary, for the pure aerl which they feel for the interests of religion, and for the cause of education. But do you act inconsistently with the prin ciples of the Christian religion if you raise their character, at least their position, and give them the means of supporting their religion with decency ? Now, mark what results from this principle and endowment Act. You have given permission to landed proprietors to make voluntary endowments. Sir, Ido hope that the landed proprietors will avail themselves of the facilities which are legitimately afforded them under the Act; we cannot conceive any mode of endowment pregnant with more advantages to the public interest, and tending more to assuage the bitterness to which religious differences give rise than in such a cennexion.lf you will make the Roman Catho lic priests net merely skilful polemics, but useful in every respect, give them the means of acquiring scientific acquire ments, of making them good chemists, good proficients in modern science, then probably the landed proprietors will feel an inducement to avail themselves of this _power, and by voluntary contributions make endowments. The increase of this vote has a material influence upon the Charitable Bequests Act, and will greatly facilitate its execution. We are told that the establishment is of a monastic and ascetic character. Whose fault is that? Not the fault of the Roman Catholic priests. In 1795, at the institution of Maynooth College, Mr. Grattan presented a petition from the Roman Catholic body, objecting to that clause in the Act which prevented the educa tion of Protestants there, and the trustees of Maynooth Col lege established a lay college there, and did not wish that the institution should be of an exclusive character. We interfered to prevent this, and Mr. Abbott informed the secretary to Maynooth College that the British Government would not allow the lay college to continue, and it was accordingly suppressed.—( Hear, hear.) Therefore the Roman Catholic authorities were not responsible for the peculiar character of the education pursued there. At the same time my belief is, that any attempt to make, as a condition of the education given them, that it should be of a mixed and secular character—any attempt of this sort would virtually alter the character of liberality, and probably prevent the acceptance of this grant. Mr. Burke inculcated on the British Government the policy of giving separate education to those who were destined to discharge the functions of the Roman Catholic priesthood. Why, Sir, you determined then that it was desirable to increase this grant, and you deter mined to increase it, and to make the offer in a manner which should be thoroughly acceptable to the Roman Catholics of Ireland. We considered well that question. We did not act precipitately; We asked ourselves the question, shall we, before proposing this increase, institute an inquiry into the course of instruction pursued there. We referred to the inquiry instituted in 1826, and came to the conclusion that no beneficial result would arise from a Commission of Inquiry. Was that inquiry conducted in a friendly or a hostile spirit? We thought that that. would give rise to hostile theological controversy, because the Commission would contain necessarily many persons hostile to Maynooth ; and I admit we thought it better to adopt Maynooth as it was. We determined to trust for the beneficial effects of our interference to the liberality and confidence with which we acted.—( Hear.) Sir, we proposed that the vote should be permanent instead of annual. We did not think that by making it a permanent in-• stead of an annual vote we interfered with any existing prin. ciple ; and we do think that by making it permanent we shall remove annual controversy and discussion from the House of Commons—(Cheers)—that we sharoduce peace and relieve ourselves from painful contention.-(Cheers.) We incorpo rated the trust because we thought that actual incorporation was in conformity with the spirit which the original Act possessed. You appointed trustees, and you enabled them to purchase land, but you did not enable them to possess the land so acquired; you engender great expense upon them— you admitted the principle that trustees should be appoihted—that they sheuld have the power of acquiring land, we propose that they should have the power of holding the necessity of constant supervision. That is the nature of the grant we propose—l say that in mak ing this grant, though we incorporate the trustees—though the vote is permanent— I say that in this there is no violation of principle, which does not apply to the continuation of the vote for another fifty years, that vote being applied distinctly under the authority of Par liament to the inculcation of the tenets of the Roman Ca. tholic religion.—( Hear, hear.) It is said that the Roman Catholic people of Ireland are indifferent to this—that this grant will be without any effect on the people of Ireland— that they will reject it as an unnecessary boon, and will not be thankful for it. I think you do injustice to their feel ings.--(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") I believe the gene rosity with which you shall have acted, will produce gratitude in them.—( Hear, hear.) When they heard of the proposition, they wrote immediately a letter of which this is a part. I think there are 17 professors at Maynooth; and this letter, addressed to me, is signed by 16 out of 17, the other being incapacitated from signing it by illness; and they thus expressed themselves:—" Sir, The undersigned beg leave respectfully to :express their deep sense of gratitude for the very liberal provision which you, as the head of the Government, have proposed for the education of the Roman Catholic clergy, and still more for the kind and gracious manner in which you have recommended the mea sure to the favourable consideration of Parliament." Now if you ask me whether I believe it more for the interest of this country that the educators of youth should be influenced by the grateful feeling here expressed, rather than that they should be men whom you have starved on the pittance you have hitherto given them—( Loud cheers)—l do not hesitate to say that I believe it to be for the interests of peace and good order—( Hear, hear)—nay, that I believe it rather for the interests of the Protestant religion that I should commit the instruction of young men who are to be the spiritual guardians of the people of another faith, to in structors who will be grateful for liberality rather than to men who view with discontent and and gnetion the paltry pittance which you assign to them, under the pretence of supporting them —( Loud cheers.) I do not carry this too far—l do not mean to say that they are satisfied i ito draw, the law, or that the institution will be perfectly satis factory. Ido not mean to say that they have made any com promise or sacrifice of principle — l cannot guarantee to you m that they will receive any vote for Maynoath, as, in their opinion, a complete and final measure. — ( Hear, hear, from the ntilie of , Ministerial benches.) No, I cannot say that; but they are not a generous feeling they say this is an honourable a n d lib eral p in r d o i v ff is e i r o e n n t fo t r o ns y . our Th li a b t era is lit t y ti , e and on in only inference the wish and that is the motive upon which we act • •in making thit grant. My Hon. Friend (Sir R. Inglis) has put two goes_ tions to me. He has said, " I call on you to state whether not this is part for a preconcerted system,h or the whole of h we have not developed, and w h e th er this wi c ference to 11laynooth, is brou g h t forward preposition, in re signedly for the purpose, and for a further endowment of th clergy. I will an swer hi e Roman C at h o li c m that this measure is brought forward singly and individusily on its own abstract meriis—that this proposition is not part of a preconcerted sys -1 tem—and that it is not brought foi ward with the design of bringing forward any further measure. We have had no corn mu nicatiens whatever on the subject, with any authorities in Ireland or elsewhere. We have nothing upon that sub ject in our contemplation. You may say I saw ru mours to the effect, that though there was no com munication with Roman Catholic authorities in Ireland, yet Viet we have had secret negotiations with higher autho rities at Rome. Now I state explicitly that those reports are altogether without foundation, and I have a strong impression that you will do no good in Ireland by secret aed unavoeved negotiations with Rome to which the Remark Catholics of Ireland the not made a party.—( Hear, hear. ) Ido not believe that any attempt at negotiation for the pur pose of fettering the independence of the Roman Catholic clergy of Ireland, or of establishing a taonnexion between the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland and the State, could lead to any satisfactory result unless the Roman Catholic clergy and the Roman Catholic laity cf Ireland were parties to that ne gotiation.—(Cheers.) t have said that this measure which we now propose is not a part of any general system. I have said that it is not brought forward for the purpose ot facilitating any future proposal for the endowment of the Roman Catholic Church of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) But I say, also, with re spect to that question of endowment that it is a question sur rounded with g eat difficulties.—( Hear, hear.) I see no reason to believe that there exists on the part of the Roman Catholic laity—l see no reason to believe that there exists on the part of the Roman Catholic any intention to depart from the declaration which was made on a recent occasion by the Hon. Gentleman the Hon. Member for Kildare with respect to the endowment of the Roman Catholic Church. It was distincly stated by that Hon. Gentleman, that both the Catholic laity and the Catholic clergy were opposed to any State endowment of the Roman Catholic church. It is also impossible no. to see, after the demonstrations of feeling which have been made in this coetyry with regard to the measure under discussion, that the subject is one of immense difficulty; and in stating simply and merely the truth with respect to this, then, I say that we entertain on intention of proposing any measure for the endowment of the Roman Catholic church ; but when my Honourable Friend says, will you go on to say that it is not consis.ent with your principles to propose any endow ment for the Roman Catholic Church—will you say that you have decided that at any future time you will not. propose any such endowment. I say that my Right Hon. Friend has no right to ask such a question.—( Cheers and counter-cheering.) Now, I beg the House to draw no unfavourable inference from what I have said.—( Ironical cheers ) We have no s -ch in- tention ; but I will not consent to hamper and embarrass any ' future Government by any declaration like that sought to be wrung from me—that the difficulties in the way of the endowment of the Roman Catholic Church are insuperable. —(Cheers.) We have not any such measure in contemplation. at present. I see very great difficulties in the way of such a proposition, but no one has any right to call upon me to say that those difficulties are insuperable, and I will nut purchase any relaxation of the opposition by which this measure has been met by placing upon record any declaration fettering the ac• Lions of those who may hereafter be responsible for the Govern ment. My Hon. Ft iend asks if I do not consider that or, principle there is a religious objection to this measure. Now I cannot say that. there is any decided religious objection to it. I do not think that my Honourable Friends can fairly take a religious objection to this proposal. ( Hear, hear.) Now a religious objection might have been much more fairly taken to the Endowment Act of last session. —(Cheers.) By that Act you created a board for facilitating the endowment of the Roman Catholic'elergy, and for the building of Roman Catholic chapels. Now, that measure was much more open to religious objection than the proposition for an increased grant to Maynooth. I cannot concur in the dictum of the Hon. Gentleman, that it is an offence in the eyes of God and a dereliction of religious principle in all circumstances, and at all times to grant money for re ligious purposes to those who differ from the religious tenets of the Church to which we belong. Now let us see how:my Hon. Friend gets over the difficulty of Malta. True, he says, we took Malta under a capitulation, which we are bound to observe; but why should we take Malta at all ?—(Loud cheers. ) Why, because it was a convenient possession in the Mediterranean, and we are ready to go to war rasher than abandon it.—( Hear, hear.) But if a religious principle was involved in the matter —if it were contrary to religious principle to undertake the maintenance of the Roman Catholic Church, why did we accept Malta at all? My Hun. Friend cannot get rid of the difficulty by referring to the capitulation. The. religious difficulty was involved in the acceptance of it.—( Loud cheers.) But, Sir, this is a most dangerous doctrine to advocate as respects the interests of the Established Church itself.—( Hear, and cheers.) The principle is this, that it is a violation of con science to call upon any one to support a religious faith from the tenets of which he dissents.—( Hear, hear.) Now, in arguing the question of establishments for the Dissenter, I may say to him that the Established Church is a great national institution, that as such, all have an interest in its welfare, and all are equally called on to contribute towards its support, and I may say, too, in doing so, you violate no conscientious scruple. You are aiding the general cause of religion by supporting the Established Church. But I say to the Dissenter no tax can be im posed for the maintenance of the Established Church, and if, after that; I make him, whether he be willing or not, contribute to wards its support, if 1 subject him, nut only to a pecuniary im post, in support of the Church, but accompanying that impost by an avowed insult to his religious feelings, in what a position am I not placing the interests of the Established Church?—(Loud cheers.) I know that the Hon. Gentleman says that tithes are an impost upon property, and that Dissenters take property subject to that incumbrance, and that therefore it is no violation of their conscientious scruples to take from them tithes. I know that he says that church-rates are likewise an impost upon property, but what does he say to Church extensions?—( Loud cheers. ) Is that a legal incumbrance on property ?—( Loud cheers.) Now, suppose that the Government should think it advisable to do as Government bad done in some former years, to propose a grant for the construction of religious edifices, in connexion with the Church Establish• went, should we be able, in accordance with the principles of the Hon. Gentleman to call upon the Dissenters to contri bute without any violation of their religious scruples?—(Loud cheers.) I must confess that I see nit difference in the cases, and I believe that we violate religious scruples just as much in veiling upon members of the Established Church to contribute to the support of the Protestant Dissenters of Ulster, as to call upon those Dissenters to contribute to the support of the Esta blished Church. This is a most dangerous doctrine to propa• gate with regard to the Established Church. Do you violate any religions principle by calling upon the Quaker, who ob jects to all war, to contribute towards the support of the standing army ? Sir, I do not believe that there is any religious principle involved in this measure.—(Cheers.) I believe that ' the measure which is now proposed by the Government for the permanent endowment of Maynooth is just towards the Roman Catholics, and that it is contrary to no principle of religion. As to the effect which the vote of this House may produce, I believe that the willing adoption of this measure will produce a kindly feeling in Ireland. It has already produced a great effect there. It has already produced a great effect here. It has been received in a grateful and a friendly spirit, corresponding with the spirit in which it has been proposed.—(Cheers.) I hardly expected that it would have produced this effect.—(Cheers. ) Ido not believe that the gratitude which has been expressed by the Roman Catholics in Ireland has been expressed in the expectation of future gain, but I believe that the effect produced has been a natural effect, which a kind and generous policy invariably produces as its re. salt.—( Loud cheers.) Sir, I will not be tempted to refer to the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, and to the taunts and imputations which he thought proper to indulge in ; but I will rather fol low the example of the Noble Lord, and abstain from everything that can create a feeling of irritation. I think I could prove from the admissions in the speeches of the Right Hon. Gentleman to this House—though I do not mean to say that he has in those speeches committed the slightest violation of principle—though Ido not mean to say he spoke of the measure because of the difference between 9,000/. a-year and :26,000/. ; but I could prove from the speeches of the Right - Hon. Gentleman, that he is the last man in the House who should throw an imputation upon the present Government.—(Hear, hear.) Every feeling with regard to what has been said about the in consistency or the security of the Government, I totally dis regard, for I say they should be, and they are subservient to the one feeling which prompts me to utter this expression, do not reject this Dill.--( Cheers.) I do not know what the consequences may be with regard to the kindly relations between England and Ireland, but this 1 know that the proposition has been the m eans o f ca lli ng f ort h t h e most kindly feelings in the minds of a grateful people. Therefore, I say, let all parties combi ne an d a id t h e G overnment, in carrying out this measure.—( Loud cheers.) Take what course you please in regard to the Government but I say let not your indign a ti on f a ll upon t h e measure, b ut on those who nave brought it forward.—( Hear, hear.) 1 shall say .no more about it now on that point; but I must remind the House that it is such a measure, and is now in such a state as w ill ren d er i t i mposs ibl e to withdraw it without creating suspicion, and inflicting a deep wound on the feelings of the Irish people.—( Hear, hear.) I do not press the measure because it is competent for me to do so, but because I believe it to be a wise, and a just, and an equitable measure.—( Cheers.) I say also, recollect that we are responsible for the peace of Irelan,l. We must break up the formidable confederacy that exists there against the Go vernment ; but I do not believe that we can break it by force. I believe that with respect to the maintenance of the Union and the Established Church, yen can do much to break up that confederacy by acting towards the Irish people in a spirit of kindness, and of forbearance and of generosity, and I believe it is essential that we should do so, in order to carry on the Go vernment, and to preserve the peace and union of the two countries —(Hear, hear, and cheers.) I gave notice of the in tention of the Government to bring on this measure last session of Parliament, without the slightest reference to circumstances that have since taken place. But upon the day upon which I gave notice of our intention to bring it on, our attention was called by the Noble Lord opposite to another matter of great importance.—( Hear. ) The Noble Lord called our attention to a rather ominous circumstance; and there certainly did appear some reason for it, for a cloud appeared in the western horizon, small indeed at first, but threatening in its position and aspect.—( Hear. ) It became my duty, on the part of the Government, on that day, in temperate but significant language, to depart so far from the caution which is usually observed by a Minister as to declare publicly, that while we were most anxious for the amicable adjustment of the differences—while we would . leave nothing undone to effect that amicable adjustment, yet,. if our rights were invaded, we were prepared and determined to maintain them.—(Loud cheers.) I own to you, that when . I was called upon to make that declaration , I did recollect with I satisfaction and consolation that, the day before, I had sent a message of peace to Ireland.—( Renewed cheering.) Sir, the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Canterbury (Mr. Smythe) thought it not improbable that the time might come when this country might be compelled to summon all her energies in her defence. I heard the spee c h o f t h at Hon. Gentleman with great satisfaction, from the ability and eloquence which it displayed.—(Cheers.) I heard the speech of the Noble Lord (Lord J. Manners) on the same evening, 1. differing, as I did, from the Noble Lord in many o f the to • l tions which he took—differing altogethe r f rom hi m in his s. vi with regard to the Revolution and t o th at Prince whomrews was impossible for differing called the Dutch Stadtholder ; b ut i t differing from hint as I did, no t to hear hisresapteestalitisafnaedtitohne, speech of the Hon Gentle man, w i t h out very at the prospect of their f u t ure eminence I foretold this to g the Hon. Gentleman—l k now not whetherhe recollects it—at an earlier period, when others thought from a first embarrass ment that he had f a il e d — I tried toconsole him, and I told him my convicti on was, t h at he was destined to future distinction.— ( Cheers.) My anticipations have been realised by the di s pl a y of the other night.—(Renewedc heers.) Sir, in the course of that speech the Hon. Gentleman said he thought it probable, that in case it should be necessary f to summo n th e energ i es of this country i n th e d efence o her honour and her interests, that high trust would be committed to my hands. M ay G o d ' forbid th a t so great an evil may fa upon l l i t u s.—( Loud ch eers. ) May God f or bid so great an evil fall may —, in his result of n woef t r h f e world as my Hon. F r i en d h as s h adowed forth this his sp d eej . h te . ( Cheers.) B ut w h atever may be, in —to wh a t ever h and; the destinies of this countryea may be committed, I shall take my place by the side of my successors, and shall g i ve t h em every support in my power to this just and honourable cause. —( Cheers) If the calamity of war should befal us, it it my earnest hope that when it occurs it will find the people of this empire united in loyalty to the throne, in mutual eon& deice, and in a love of those institutions from which t they derive the highest benefits.—(Tremendous cheering.) It is my earnest prayer that the result of our measures will b e so to unite the people of this realm, as to ensure the triumpb of a just t'ause.—(The Right Hon. Baronet sat down amidst loud and continued cheering.) The House then divided, when there appeared— For the amendment Against it Majority On oor return to the gallery, we bund the House in Com. mite considering the Bill merely pro . /orma, with a view ta its being recommitted on Friday next. Sir R. INGLIS objected to proceeding with even a single stage of the Bill at that. hour. Ihe Bill was then ordered to be considered in Committee on Friday next, and the House resumed. Mr. PLUMPTRE wished to know when it was understcod that any further pro ecdings would be taken on the Bill? Lord J. RUSSELL said the Hon. Member had not heard the discussion which took place at an early period in the even ing on this subject. The Committee on the Bill was postponed. as he ( Lord J. Russell) understood, till Friday next; but the question of its being a charge on the consolidated fund must be moved in a previous Committee, and that previous Committee was arranged for Monday next, when the Hon. Member for Sheffield would propose his motion. Air. DUNCO 411 E sai l he should Certainly bring on his resolutions rtspe..;tin t , ,, the railway dvi rtment of the Board of Trade, of which he had given notice, before this, on Mon day night. • The SPEAKER—WiII you divide on it? Mr. DUNCOMBE—Yes. The gallery was then cleared fi r a division. Tae numbers were— For going into the previous Committee on Monday .. . Against it Majorit . y. !or the Committee The other orders or the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Half-past Three o'clock. ALLEGED INDISPOSITION OF THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. The following paragraphs appeared in the Morning Post of vestertay, relative to the supposed illness of the Duke of Wel lington, in the House of Lords, on Wednesday night:— •' The Duke of Wellington, whose sudden indisposition in the House of Lords, last evening, will be found noticed in the sill - inn:try of our Parliamentary report, was, we are re juicea to state, on inquiry at Apsley House, shortly before ini.ini;;;lit, pronounced • perfectly convalescent.' " Considerable excitement was caused during the discus sion on this question by the sudden departure from the Hone of the Duke of Wellington, leaning on the arm of another Peer, in a state of great apparent feebleness." It will be Neel). however, by the following letter, which we ' publish at the request of the Noble Duke, that the matter originated in mistake:— London, April 18, 1845. F. M. the Duke of Wellington presents his compliments to the Editor of the Morning Post. his attention has just row been drawn to two paragraphs in the Morniny Post of this morning respecting himself, which, considering the following circumstances, the Duke must con sidar as neither more nor less than wilfully false. It is true that the Duke of Wellington, during the debate, got up from his place, and gave the assistance of his arm to a Noble Lord standing on the floor of the House, who it is well known has the misfortune to be blind, and conducted him towards the door of the House, when he placed him under the care of another peisln. The Duke then returned to his place, in which he remained till the House adjourned, and even took part in the discus sion of the business transacted. A person called at the Duke's house last night at eleven o'clock, not twelve, to inquire how the Duke was. The answer was, " perfectly well," and not that " he was con valescent." Ile has stated these facts as the foundation for his request that the Editor of the Morning Pail will be pleased to give a positive contradiction to the paragraphs above referred to; and that the Editor will be pleased to give directions that when his name is inserted in his paper for the future, care should be taken that it is not made the matter of a falsehood. The Duke makes this request, in order, first, to relieve the anxiety of many, and next, to save himself some trouble. To the Editor of the Morning Post. Apsley- house was yesterday morning besieged by in quirers after his Grace's health. The answer was, The Duke is very well." "Oh no," was the reply, "it is stated in the paper List he was taken ill in the House of Lords last night." " I can only say," rejoined the servant, that he cause home from the house last night in his usual health, and ate as good a dinner as ever he did in his life: he says he is very well himself, and 1 suppose he ought to know as well as the paper.'" We believe it will be conceded that we seldom fall into even any of those accidental errors that must be unavoidable in the management of a newspaper establishment; and we feel assured of this admission even from our most ardent po litical opponents, that we are incapable of deviating into in tentional misrepresentation upon any subject. That we have erred, therefore, in putting forth a groundless alarm as to the state of the Duke of Wellington's health in our journal of yesterday, will, we feel convinced, be attributed solely to " untoward " accident, arising from circumstances, which, although in fact unsubstantial, were not altogether without an appearance of reality. It is as generally known as it was regretted at the time that, on a former occasion, his Grace was suddenly seized with illness in the House, happily of a temporary nature, and was conveyed to Apsley House in a condition that gave pain to the whole nation; and on that occasion his Grace quitted his seat and left the House of Lords leaning on the arm of a Noble Peer (we believe Lord Ellen borough ) almost precisely under similar circumstances to those which attended his anpareut departure from the House on Thursday evening. it appears by his Grace's letter, how ever, that on Thursday it was his Grace who gave support to a nobleman, whose infirmity required safe conduct, by taking his arm, and it is impossible that any can rejoice more than we do at his Grace's ability to afford that aid, or can more sincerely desire its duration. We think, therefore, his Grace has been rather too hard upon us in attributing wilful misrepresentation. Who would wilfully misrepresent the Duke ref Wellington's state of health ? No; our error arose fain an impression that prevailed in the galleries of the !louse at the time, that the Noble Duke was really obliged to quit the !louse through illness, and had been assisted, as on a former occasion, to his carriage, which led our reporter to notice the circumstance of the Duke's departure in his report. We, however, not resting on this authority alone, sent to make inquiry at his Grace's residence, when the an swer given, we regret to say, roust have been misunderstood by title person who was instructed on the occasion. The Duke's most zealous friends (and where are they not to be found?) cannot feel more gratified than we do at his excel lent state of health, and if we ever allude to any deteriora tion of it, it is only because we know -that he is not, what we should wish him to be in lite, as he is in fame—immortel. COURT uittCULAR. The Queen, accompanied by the Princess Royal, and at tended by the Lady iu Waiting, took an airing yesterday afternoon in an open carriage and four. Colonel Arbuthnot, Equerry in Waiting, was in attendance on horseback. - His "loyal Highness Prince Albert rode out on horseback yesterday morning, attended by Colonel Bouvene. In the afternoon his Royal Highness presided at a meeting of the Commissioners for promoting and encouraging the Fine Arts in the rebuilding the Palace of Westminster. The meeting was held in one of the Committee-rooms of the House of Commons. Prince Albert arrived at a quarter before three o'clock, attended by Colonel Bouverie. The Commissioners present were Lord Ashburton, Lord Colborne, the Right Hon. the Speaker of the House of Com mons, Viscount Mahon, Mr. Gaily Knight, Mr. Benjamin Hawes, Mr. Wyse, Mr. Samuel Rogers, and Mr. Henry After the meeting Prince Albert, attended by Mr. East lake, the Secretary to the Commission, and Mr. Barry, the architect, inspected different parts of the new Palace. His loyal Highness took his departure at six o'clock, attended by Colonel Bouverie. Their Itjyal Highnesses thq Prince of Wales,Prince Alfred, and the Princess Alice were taken airings yesterday in the royal gardens. Lord George Lennosi and Captain Francis Seymour had the honour of joining the royal circle at Buckingham Palace, at dinner yesterday. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent had a dinner party yesterday, at her residence, Clarence House, St. James's. The company included her Royal Highness the Grand Duchess Stephanie of Baden, Count and Countess St. Aulaire, Count and Countess Dietrichstein, M. and Mad. Van de Weyer, Baron and Baroness Moncorvo, the Che valier and Madame Bunsen, Baron and Bareness Gersdoff, the Duke of Wellington, the Marquis of Douglas, the Earl of Aberdeen, the Earl of Liverpool, Sir Robert and Lady Peel, Baroness Strumfeder, Count Schreckenstein, Hon. William Ashley, Baron Koller, Lady Anna Maria Dawson, the Countess Wratislaw, and Colonel Sir George Couper. The Duchess of Kent had afterwards an evening party. The Queen and Prince Albert (attended by the royal suite) and the Royal Family were present. Madame bulcken, Madame d'Eiethal, and Mr. Wilson, at tended at Clarence House, and bad the honour of performing before the royal and august circle during the evening. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent will have an evening party cm Wednesday, the 23d inst. We are autho rised to state that the company will assemble at Clarence House, St. James's, at half-past nine instead of ten o'clock. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge visited her Majesty the Queen Dowager yesterday, at Marlborough House. Their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cam bridge, and the Hereditary Grand Duke and Duchess of Mecklenburgh Strelitz, attended by Baron Knesebeck and Mr. Edmond Mildinay, honoured the Russian Minister with their company at dinner yesterday. A Cabinet Council was held yesterday afternoon, at the Foreign-office, at two o'clock. The meeting broke up at half-past four o'clock. A deputation of the Metropolitan Association for improving the dwellings of the industrious classes had an interview with the Earl of Dalhousie yesterday, at the office of the Board of• Trade. The deputation consisted of Lord Eking ton, Sir Ralph Howard, Bart., M.P., Mr. Joseph Toynbee Mr. W. A. Wilkinson, Mr. Gibsor., Mr. J. W. T ott ie , and Mr. Charles Gatliff. Count de Potion, Sardinian Minister, transacted business yesterday, at the Foreign-office. Mr. Francis R Rives left town yesterday morning to take passage in the Hibern ia, on his r e t urn t o A mer i ca, having resigned th e o ffi ce of Secretary of the United States Legation at this Court. Colonel Barlow, Mr. Mildmay, Mr. Edwards. Mr. Lefevre, Captain Ward, and Mr. Saintsliury, a deputation on the subject of the Southampton Docks, had an interview with Sir George Clerk yesterday, at the Board of Trade. The Commission on the Slave Trade Treaties sat yester day at the of fi cial residence of Sir Robert Peel, i n D ow ning street. The l'..celesiastical Commissioners for England sat yester day, at the Office in Whitehall-place. There were present the Bishops of Bangor, Ely, Hereford, and Lichfield, and the Earl of Beaborough. Dispatches for the Governors of the North American colo nies, and also for the Governor of South Australia, were sent off' yesterday evening from the Colonial-office. ILITARY FOOT-RACES AT WINDSOR.—On Thurs day afternoon an immense number of persons, including several of the nobility and gentry, and the officers of the two regiments in garrison at NVindsor, were assembled in the Long-walk, to witness several foot-races between the privates of the Coldsti etm Guards, got up by the officers of the regi ment, by whom the prizes were subscribed tor, and distri buted. Twenty-three started for the first race, the distance being two hundred yards, which was accomplished by the winner (Pearson) in iless than twenty seconds. A match was then run by Lord F. Paulet's horse, rode by its owner, against Lieutenant Somerset, on foot ; the distance being one hundred yards, fifty out and in, which was won by Lieutenant Somerset. Colonel H. Bentinck then rode his horse over the same ground, against the same officer, the horse winning easily. Lieutenant Somerset then mounted Lord F. Paulet's horse, and ran against his Lordship, who was on foot and beat him by ten yards. Several other matches were afterwards run by the privates; the winners receiving prizes varying from a sovereign to rive shillings. A grand trial of skill_ will shortly take place between a -ctn. tain number of the crack tedestrians in each of the regi ments stationed at Windsor.