The Sun. — London, England, 1851-05-31 00:00:00

ur, and in' raise worthy under this —that was, ,he principle correct, the psecutione- - • salon before 3ase of the I callod ' Primate of him in that open to any sd by angry Dr. Cullen , this was a ; to Ireland, country ut are to legie tly, plainly ?tn do it 11 ions to be g preamble dictums o f he warden' f the Pope the Bishop 'arious GO' in law, and or. General, would be of Galway► rescript of open to an ear.) And last twenty ll and void, and void ration and thus ensue, [ear, hear.) rity in spi• ? On the ,ed, and in 'he Noble a former England have you ose que?- ostolic in of mat& 1 the con- e by the elating to i country t the Ca- uthorities countries lly; that nd eccle liction of in that 'rom the luesticns e ?-110 relating 7, or is ic r of dis d to have Vith the same as General, whether icle it to ision T-- unless I faculty, ion was mt sup ' course, he rites fined to clesias- lerty or MID try, knew esta coin- tbolic a bull ces of SUN, sion, much staggered at this preposition; but the more they examieed Into the question, the alone convieeei were they of the expo diency of the course which I,e aro• posed. If their Lordship's thought, when this Bill got into Committee, the meaeure might be in some degree modified, provided it could be satisfactorily made out that Roman Catholics would be enabled to do what the law euthorized them to do, and to do it effectually, lie should hare no difficulty in acceding to such a modifi cation." There was one observation in what he had just read which did not appear to him to be in exact accordance with the great acuteness of his Noble and Learned Friend. He appeared to have been some what surprised that such a statute as that of the 13th of Elizabeth had ever been passed in Ireland. He (Sir J. Graham) was not at all surprised at it. The Noble and Learned Lord had stated the reason, viz , that there-fourths of the inhabitants of Ireland were Roman Catholics. In England it was quite possible to treat the Roman Catholics as a sect; but in Ireland the Roman Catholics were a nation, and they must be treated as a nation.—(Cheers.) But to return to the declaratory clause, he feared it went infinitely further than the Go vernment intended when they introduced the Bill. He confessed ho was alarmed at the doubt and ambiguity in Which it was shrouded. He knew not whether the At torney-General for Ireland was in his place.—(lronical cries of " Hear, hear.") He should be sorry if it were thought he intended any sneer at the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, who had raised himself to eminence in his profession amid many rivals. He had had the disadvantage of coming into that House late in life, a disadvantage which he felt acutely for his sake; but still he occupied an eminent situation, and he (Sir J. Graham) would like to hear his opinion on the effect of this clause. [Mr. Hatchell here entered the House.] He was glad to see the Right Hon. Gentleman in his place. He was sure the House would testify that ho had said nothing unkind of the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) He (Sir James Graham) repeated that he was alarmed at the ambiguity of the present clause. Ho was still more alarmed when he heard the Government de clare their intention to revive old and dormant statutes if the present enactment should prove insufficient. It had been happily said by Curran that old statutes hung like rusty armour, and were only endured because they were not executed; and it was their inactivity alone which rendered them tolerable in a free country.—(Hear, hear.) Ile (Sir J. Graham) deeply regretted, therefore, to have heard allusions made by her Majesty's Government to the possible revival of old statutes on this subject.— (Hear, hear.) Nothing ever gratified him more than the conduct of the Government in withdrawing the second and third clauses of their original Bill, looking, as he did, upon that step as an indication of that spirit which actuated their councils on religious questions generally, and of which he approved. He thought the afterthought of adopting this clause most unfortunate, and he must protest against it, as he could not satisfy himself as to the precise extent to which the House would be carried if it adopted the clause blindfolded.—(Hear.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL took the liberty of Saying. with reference to the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that the Master of the Rolls, on a pre vious discussion, had said that the Pope had the power by law to appoint ecclesiastical persons in this country with dioceses and sees, that the Right Hon. Gentleman was labouring under a complete mistake. Sir J. GRAHAM here read the note he had taken at the time of the words of the Master of the Rolls, to the effect that " he believed he was correct in saying, and he had since given an opinion, that there was nothing in the law 'to prevent the Pope from parcelling out the country into archbishoprics and bishoprics." The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, the Master of the Rolls had given no opinion on the subject to which be was not a party, and he was therefore confident that if the Master of the Rolls used the words quoted he must have used them with some restriction and qualification. The best proof of that was the original Bill drawn up by the Master of the Rolls, the preamble of which stated that .‘ the attempt to establish under colour of au thority from the See of Rome, or otherwise, such pre tended sees and dioceses, &c., is illegal and void."— (Hear, hoar.) But passing now to the general argu ment of the Right Hon. Gentleman, he must say that almost all the points raised by him had been previously discussed and answered to the satisfaction, he believed, of the House generally—(oh !)—though not, perhaps, to the satisfaction of every gentleman on the opposite benches. The Right Hon. Gentleman contended that the present clause enacted and created a new law. That he (the Attorney-General) denied, maintaining that it did nothing more than declare the law as expressed in the recital of the preamble; and the reason, as he had explained before, why the Government had thought right to yield to the suggestion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Midhurst, and consent to the insertion of the present clause, was because they believed, while it carried thematter no further than the preamble, it amounted to a more solemn and emphatic declaration that this attempt on the part of the Pope was contrary to the law and constitution of this kingdom. He took the liberty of asking, did any Hon. Gentleman deny the law as ex pressed in the recital of the Bill—that it was not com petent for the See of Rome to establish archbishops and bishops with territorial titles within this kingdom; and if that could not be denied to be the law, it followed as a necessary consequence that the brief, rescript, or letters apostolical conferring such jurisdiction or title was void also. The clause was simply declaratory, and, if issue were joined with him on that point, he was prepared to maintain that no foreign power, whoever he might be, had the right to confer territorial titles in this kingdom without tho consent of the Crown.—(Hear, hear.) Con sequently the clause went no further than to declare the law as it existed. The Right Hon. Gentleman went on to say that the clause would be attended with mischiev ous consequences, because it struck at the exercise of the ecclesiastical functions of the Roman Catholic Chursh in Ireland, and would thereby invalidate the ordination of Roman Catholic priests, and marriages celebrated by them. But, again he asked, were rescripts or bulls from the Pope appointing to territorial sees in this kingdom now legal and valid?—(Hear, hear.) Whatever might have been the intention of Sir Robert Peel's Govern ment, the Act of Elizabeth certainly was only repealed so far as the penalty of treason attached to the intro duction of bulls into this country, bat their intro duction into England, at any rate, was continued as an offence in the most express terms. The Right Hon. Gentleman stated that it was now proposed, by the pre sent clause, to affect in a great degree the Roman Ca tholic ecclesiastical and spiritual authority in Ireland. Now, the Act of 10th George IV. rendered the assump tion by Roman Catholics of episcopal titles derived from existing sees illegal and void, and yet there was not a single priest in Ireland with respect to whose ordination a question had been brought before a court of law. It was therefore clear that those inconveniences which the Right Honourable Gentleman apprehended had not fol lowed from he present law.—(Hear, hear.) What mar riage, he asked, had been annulled, what offspring, otherwise legitimate, had been bastardised in conse quence of any one asserting that the ordination of priests by Roman Catholic bishops in Ireland was an illegal transaction The thing had never been heard of ; because, with respect to marriage and the consequence of marriage, it was enough that there was a de facto priest exercising his functions in a chapel ; and the or dination of the priest on the validity of the marriage never came into question. The present Bill placed the assumption of new titles on the same footing as the as sumption of existing titles. Its object and scope wits not to interfere with the full and perfect exercise of the spiritual functions of the Roman Catholic Church, but solely to prevent a foreign power granting territorial titles within this kingdom. The Right Honourable Gen tleman referred to the examination of Dr. Wiseman at the bar of the House of Lords. Dr. Wiseman was called as an expert, to show what were the usages of the Catholic Church, and questions put to him to test his competency did not involve a recognition of his jurisdic tion. But what if they had? Dr. Wiseman was at thi t time vicar-apostolic, and he declared that as such he ex ercised all the jurisdiction, ecclesiastical and spiritual, to which the Right Hon. Gentleman bad referred. If so, could there be a more satisfactory proof that this recent rescript of the Pope, and the invasion of the sovereignty of the kingdom by dividing it into dioceses, were utterly uncalled for?—(Hear, hear.) With regard to what the Right Hon. Gentleman said as to the probability of pro secutions under the present clause, he was perfeetly convinced that it created no fresh opportunity for such a course of proceeding. The clause was declaratory, and if any prosecution for misdemeanour, for assuming these unlawful titles, could be instituted, they co uld equally be i nst i tu t e d w ith ou t the present clause. in reference to what had fallen froSmirthje. RMGaiteArTioAf I t i he Rolls, read from Hansard the following extract from a speech delivered by that learned individual on the 21st of March last : — O n the debate on the Bhoillrefsoiratztaabal i sping d d m i p e l n o - t matic relations with Rome, which was proposed by the then Hon. Member fore could Lam bath, and said that a s the law stood the Pope parcel out the country into bishoprics and archbishoprics; that if the House introduced the amendment which pro hibited dealing with spiritu al matters, the Pope would still be able so to divide the country, and there would be nothing to prevent him; and that the diplomatic ions with him. That was to say , he depreca e such ld a mea sure, and was desirous that the House shou k p e as s s uch a Bill which would enable the Government Wta steps as would prevent it. That was entirely intone accor dance with what he now said, and he believe e was correct in saying it, and had since given an oepirnoione,ftrboamt there was nothing in the law to prevent th parcelling out the country into archbishoprics and . bishoprics; that there was a law t o p revent the intro duction of bulls, but no law to prevent him from parce ling out the country." The Attorney-General bad argued , that when Dr. Wiseman was examined at the bar of the House he was bishop apostolic, and yet possessed all the power of other bishops with respect to the ordination of priests; but let the House recollect that the only difference between a bishop-apostolic with a district and a Catholic bishop with a dioces was, that the former held directly from and was the mere creature of the rope, who then pre tended to be Bishop of England, and that the latter was one degree further removed from that potentate. Mr. O'FERRALL, who was imperfectly heard, was understood to say that with respect to the prohibitory clause of 1829, it was distinctly stated at the time to a deputation, of which he was one, that it was inserted to meet the views of the then King and other persons, but that it was not the intention of the proposers of the Bill to put that provision into effect. It was often made a reproach in that House that the Catholic Members were under the entire influence of their priests. He ut terly denied the imputation; but, if true, would it not expose them to the suspicion, if the present Bill passed, that th e y would always be ready to support the Govern ment of the day, on the understanding that the Bill should not be enforced? He never had anticipated, after 20 years' association with the Members of the Go vernment in that Rouse, that the moment could have THE arrived when he would refuse them his eonfidene. The Governitint might hare been in a position which ren dered it imperative on them to propose legislation on the subject; but ha complained of the mode in which that legi,lation had been introduced, and it was painful to hear the Noble Lord stae that in 1845 he held opinions with respect to the 'lonian Catholics which he no longer entertained. Such being the case, he felt bound to withdraw, though it pained him to do so, the confidence, both personal and puliqcal, ho had reposed in the Noble Lord. _ _ _ Mr. HATCHELL having referred to the kind manner in which the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham) had addressed hint with reference to the operation of the Bill, said he would now state what ho conceived to be the ex isting law of Irelaud on the subject, to see whether the pressnt law did more than re-enact its provisions. In the 13th of Elizabeth an Act passed, which did not ex tend to Ireland; but in the 2d of Elizabeth a similar law was passed, which did extend to Ireland. It had been admitted that the Act of Richard had now been repealed. It must be admitted that in the present day the Act could nut be pat into operation. The 13th of Elizabeth was still in force. No doubt bishops having spiritual authority were addressed by their own pe o p le by their respective titles. In ISO 9 it was judicially decided by Lord Manners, with reference to tlee Bishop of Cashel end the Bishop of Waterford, who were made trustees to a will, that they could not bo described by their territorial titles, which they held as bishops of the Church of Rome. With reference to the Act of '29, it came with some degree of alarm upon the Protestant p wtion of the country; but up to that time the law was. established against the Catholic bishops having territorial titles, and the only addition made in the Bill was as to the creation of new dioceses. Such a bishop could not ordain a priest; and all marriages, if performed by him, were void. He would come to the Act of '44, which, it was said give them a right to assume their titles. Now he thought, if they looked at the statute, it provided the very contrary. An indictment under this clause would not lie. If any indictment was preferred it alhould be on the old law, for this law prohibited nothing. With re spect to the penalty he would not then advert, but he thought it his duty to present those few observations with regard to the law of the case.—(gear.) Mr. MOORE said, the Right Hon. and Lc-lamed Gen. tleman declared that the present Bill was a re-enacting of the law, and that though it did exist at present, yet that it was not put in force because the law was obsolete. But this re-enactment would give efficiency to tha law which did not exist before, and therefore the Ronac;n Catholics would find themselves, if this Bill passed, in a worse position than they were in at present. Mr. WALPOLE said he wished to say a few words on the clause which he had first proposed, and which had been now introduced into the Bill. lie was cer tainly taken by surprise by the observatiorss. If the Hon. Gentleman had applied his attention to it ho would have found that there was no ambiguity in the clause, or any discrepancy between the clauses. This clause did not alter the law, but left it as it was bef ere. It did not apply to Ireland beyond the antecedent law. What the meaning of the brief was under the statute of diehard 11. was brought to the test in the case of Lalor. Van Espin, who was considered a great authority, stated that the Pope had ,no authority to issue a 'bull for the appointment of bishops without the placet of the Crown. Schramn, who was only second to him in authority, laid down the same principle, which was in utnison with the general law of nations and the law of England. When such is the case, ho would ask wily should England, because it was a Protestant ce , untry, be prevented from doing the same thing when the privileges of the Crown were endangered ? It was also the unwritten law. The words wiadah he had embodied in the clause were taken from the statute of Richard the Second, which course he adopted in order to avoid introducing any new disability sLgainst the Roman Catholics. The Hon. and Learned :d.ember for Athlone said, that when the statute of Riclaterd the Se cond was passed, the Roman Catholic was the religion of the country, which made a great distinctil , on. That did not apply to the case of Lalor. This country was then as much Protestant as it is now. The indictment preferred in that case was, that actions under the bull touched " the King's crown and royal diwaity," and then went on to describe his acts under the bell in ap pointing bishops and priests to parishes. Such, then, was the state of the law they were now called upon to declare. The first clause in this Bill did that and no more. He would ask did this bull refer only to spiri tuals? They appeared to have forgotten it. He would therefore recall their attention to it. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman then quoted the biel I, and ar gued that by constituting districts as dioceme a and the Pope reserving all power to himself, and ig a oring the existence of any other dioceses in the country, a .nd disre garding the authority and pleasure of the Quo an in this assumption of authority, brought it within the sphere of temporalities. He said ho had reason to find f ault with his Right Honourable Friend in not referri ag to the preamble, which recited the bull of St ptember, 1829, appointing dioceses "in England," w hich was afterwards altered to " the United Kingdoria," which had the same effect. The Right Hon. Gentlei nan said it had a larger scope, and that it would appl y beyond England. That was not to deal fairly with the clause. and to mislead the Houss. It did not go farthcr than to prohibit such briefs as were prohibited by the statute of Richard the Second. If the other amendme ate were carried this would lay -the foundation for a clause to prevent the introduction of other bulls and briefs. He put it to the Right Hon. Gentleman to sal that the clause would extend to all other briefs—to the ,se issued to vicars apostolic. Certainly, no lawyer woub d give an opinion to that effect. At all events, it was not his in• tention that it should have that effect. It was said that this law was revived in a persecuting spirit. :How was that made out ? When they faund statutes were in force, instead of allowing them to continue dormant, they ought to renew them as soon as they found persons seeking to evade them. If the law had not be( n left in that state, and if the statute of Elizabeth had not been repealed, this bull would not have been brought: into this country, but by leaving it in that state, it led people to believe the introduction of these bulls was not con trary to law. When the Noble Lord stated eniat other laws might be necessary, that statement gave great satisfaction when it was considered in wl sat spirit that declaration was made.—(Hear, hear.) Ile and all others declared they had no intention to interfere with the spiritual functions of the Roman Catholics,. but Hon. Gentlemen, in their speeches, begged the question, and assumed that such was the object of the Bill, but he had heard nothing which showed that such would be the effect of the Bill. He would state the reasons why the declarations should be made. First, because Perlis:meat had a right to uphold what was lawful agaisnst what was unlawful. Secondly, because it was a natbonal pro test against a usurpation. Thirdly, it was an :3 ssurance to the Protestant people that they intended to adhere to the principles of the Reformation • and fourthly, it was a protection to the Roman Catholics, who were placed between the head of their Church and their Sovereign, as had been declared by Lord Beaumont, Lord Camoys, and the Duke of Norfolk. These were the retie ons why the declaration should be made. They ought to stand by them. If the brief was not condemned, it -would be a test of want of foresight, or want of courage, :and want of wisdom in not foreseeing the consequences, and not providing against them, and by tolerating there to allow them to gain the sanction of time. Sir J. GRAHAM said, his Hon. and Learned Friend hart given four reasons for this clause. As to , the last, he (Sir J. Graham) was not exactly aware or the ex pressions Lord Beaumont or Lord Camoys mi.s.s,ht ' have Burk used, but he remembered a saying of Mr. a's appli cable to this question—that members of a sect were the least competent judges of what was necessa rjs for the free exercise of the religion of another sect. Now, he regarded this clause as little short of a declaration of war against 8,000,000 of our fellow•countr ymen.— (Hear, hear.) He had endeavoured to make: himself master of this Bill, and had endeavoured to reconcile it with the variances that occurred to him, but he found it impossible to do so. The first part of the pream.ble of his Hon. and Learned Friend was almost identical .with that of the Government, except that his Hon. and Learned Friend used the plain unambiguous term "of the king dom of England," and the Government used I.;he term, " within the United kingdom." But then Caine words which greatly extended the scope of what his Hon. and Learned Friend originally referred to; for the clause said that all such rescripts should be null and void, not confining the operation of the Bill to this partdcular re script, but extending it to all others; and as the Right Hon. Gentleman the Attorney-General for Ireland, who had addressed the Committee so perspicuousle and in a manner so worthy of the office he tilled—(Hear) ---had said all rescripts in Ireland would fall under the prce visions of this declaratory clause. His Hon. and Learned Friend had referred to the statute of Richard; but lb e (Sir J. Graham) had also referred to that statute when ho ad dressed the Committee, and had drawn from an infe rence opposite to that of his Hon. and Learresel Friend. That statute was passed in Catholic times, whets the Ca tholic religion was the established religion of the coun try; and the Pope of Rome, in the exercise of the powers which were allowed by the constitutional authorities of England at that time, began to encroach on the legality of the Crown and purported to assign temporalities under the authority of his temporal power.—(Hear, hisar.) But it never said that as to the appointment of bishop to the respective sees there should be any interference what ever, and they all rested with the Pope of lee , me. Ho (Sir J. Graham) contended, that throughout Europe t he Pope was the head of the Catholic Church in spiritual matters, and it was only where the Roman Catholic reli gion was the endowed religion that the consent of the So vereign was required. And as the Crown, neither by the ,had any right to interfere jurisdiction common with regard to of the authority of the Pope religion unendoweci he contended that it was begging th e - ' quhestton to refer to the statute of Richard IL, and say trout by this proceeding of the Pope the regality of the cw , lavas affected. The) Roman Catholic religion being unendowed, e he contended there th w as no excess whatever ofspiritual linr.t.t of the P o pe's jurisdiction. The Hon. and L s aid he wished the whole mattertoliieea s r e n t ed Gentleman fero i in egood thus: o ld Saxon simplicity. If so the uet Gen tleman's preamb le ou g h t to be framed . t and Lett it is expedie nt, on account of public clan% Learned ur er o He e" a nod o i t eventro check th e t spread full and o free ex erc i se o f i ts l Popery throughout this ' realm, ear)—" spir i tua l authority in the same, bo it enacted.''—(Hear, hear.) As to the p ower of indictment under the Bill h it was clear to him that its range would be very exten sive. The first section expressly declared that not only the brief, rescript, or letters apostolical, but "all and every the jurisdiction, authority, pro-eminence, or title conferred, or pretended to be conferred thereby, ate and shall be, and be deemed, unlawful and void." It fol lowed, therefore, that every attempt to exercise such jurisdiction or authority, every act intended to promote or assist it, must be also oat , evsfu 1 for when a statute positively declared a thing unlawful it rendeeed every thing which was done for its support or . e ncourage ment unlawful also. " Quanclo aliquid prolnio itur, pro hibitor et moo per. quod devenitur ad illad," said Lord Coke in his 3d Inst., 153. Every such act or attempt must be a contempt of the statute; and it was laid down by Hawkins, in his "Pleas of the Co-vn," vol. i, chap. 22, that "every contempt of a statute is indictable, if no other punishment is limited." SJ again, Lord Chief Baron Cow, n, in his " Di;;est" (tit. " Indictment"), S9isl " So for anything generally proaleited by statute, if it be done, an indictment lies for it;" that as " an attempt to commit a misdemeanour (aud undoubtedly the viola tion of a statute which is prohibitory, as it is if it de clares a thing unlawful, is a rnilerneanonr) had been decided in many cases to be itself a misdemeanour." That the Bill in this case was prohibitory, and intended by the Legislature so to be, there could be no doubt. for the preamble, among other things, expressly said, " It is expedient to prohibit the assumption of such titles in respect of any places within the United Kingdom," &c.; " be it therefore enacted," &e., and them came the first clause. The Attorney-General just now had suggested that in the opinion he had put forward in his previous speech he had been instructed by some one; but such was not the case as to that speech; but in what he now cited he certainly had been advised by a gentleman most competent to give advice on the subject. Ho would only add thet the more he considered this clause the more he was convinced it was full of danger,—(Hear, hear.) Lord. J. RUSSELL—The Right Hon. Gentleman, in commencing his first speech that evening, had declared his opinion that this clause was calculated to create alarm; and at the close of his second speech he said that the more he considered the clause the more he was con vinced that it was so calculated to create alarm. He (Lard J. Russell) must confess that he, on his part, felt alarm, and very great alarm, at the language which had that evening been held by the Right Hon. Gentle man.—(Hear, hear.) In the first place, that language tended to renew and to confirm the fears and apprehen sions with reference to the exercise of the Roman Ca tholic religion in this country which had been expressed by persons of far less authority than the Right Honour able Gentlemen, whose arguments in support of those apprehensions he thought had been successfully encoun tered.—(Bear, hear.), The authority and the weight of the Right Hon. Gentleman's opinion would, however, it was to be feared, go near to revive those vain apprehen sions. There was another cause of alarm which he de rived from the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, quoting Mr. Burke, that per sons of one sect were very bad judges of what was requi site for the conscientious exercise of the religion of another sect from whom they differed. Applying this dictum to the question before the Committee, the Right Hon. Gentleman said, very truly, that here was a ques tion on which there was the greatest difference Of opinion between parties in the House, as to whether or not it was a question affecting the regality of the Queen, the rights of the Crown, and the independence of the nation; and, on the other hand, whether or not it was a question interfering with the exercise of their religion by the Roman Catholic subjects of her Majesty? Now, on this particular subject, there had been, so far, a gene ral concurrence on the part of those who supported the Bill, that while they desired to maintain the authority of the Crown and the independence of the nation, they had no wish to interfere with the exercise of the Roman Catholic religion.—(Hear, bear.) He believed that this had been the unanimous declaration of the sup porters of the Bill—(Hear, hear.) On the other side, it was fair to admit that those who opposed the Bill had said, "We claim only the full exercise of the Roman Catholic religion, and the organization necessary to that exercise; we do not claim any power or jurisdiction to overbear that which properly belongs to the Sovereignty of the realm." Well, then, the diffi culty and the difference upon this point were in the ques tion whether the rescript of the Pope in any way inter fered with the exercise of the sovereignty of this realm, or whether it was merely intended to promote the spiri tual welfare of the Roman Catholics in this country? Such being the point, the Right Hon. Gentleman told them that those who did not belong to the Roman Ca tholic religion—for this was the strict interpretation here of the dictum he had quoted—were unfit judges of the question, and that therefore the question must be left entirely to the Roman Catholics themselves.—(Hear.) In what manner were the Roman Catholics to j ud g e of it? The country had had, in the course of the last six months, pretty clear evidence of the mode in which the Roman Catholics, if left to themselves , woul d decide the ques tion.—(Hear.) They would decide the question by saying, —" Hero has come a rescript from Rome; that rescript from Rome declares this to be a mat ter of spiritual in terest, of spiritual concern, and by that rescript we will abide."—(No, no!) He must confess that such was the distinct impression of the matter which h e had derived from all the debate upon it in that House.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman who had just exclaimed " No!" probably meant that it was not entirely for the Pope to decide the question, but that the Roman Catho lics themselves must have a good share in deciding it. Why, if that were to be so, the rest of the community would have no power whatever left to them in the matter. —(Hear, hear.) Those who belonged to the Protestant Church would be wholly ousted of the power to de fend what they considered to be the temporal rights of the Crown, which even their Roman Catholic ancestors thought inherent in the Crown; nothing would be left them but to await the Roman Catholic interpretation of the matter; and he was by no means confident that this interpretation would not be as the organs of the Pope were very fond of declaring it should be, in a conformity not very agreeable to contemplate with the unchanging and unchangeable policy and pretensions of the Court of Rome.—(Hear, hear.) Was there, then, no ground of alarm in the propositions of the Right Hon. Gentleman?—(Hear, hear.) Were the Protestants of England to give up, at once and for ever, all power of judging for themselves whether the independence of the nation was concerned, whether the rights of the Crown were invaded?—(Hear, hear.) W ere they to leave it to the Roman Catholics, or, it might be, to the Papal authorities, to declare what the decision upon this matter should be; and, that decision once so declared, however humiliating it might be to this great realm of England, thenceforward to submit to it? —(Hear, hear.) lie, for one, was not prepared to sub mit to any such decision.—(Cheers.) He considered that the Home of Commons as a body was fully able and best suited to decide for themselves this great and d imuepsotriotannftor argument; question .—( Hear, no doubt they had been bound to bear.) No doubt it was a g to hear everything that could be urged t o show that this rescript affected matters merely spiritual, and that the Pope was right in asserting that the Archbishop of Canterbury no longer existed, and was to be blotted out from the face of the spiritual realm of England. Any such arguments that any one could adduce Parliament was bound to hear; but Parliament must not divest itself of that other bounden duty, having heard all such arguments, to decide for itself, and upon its own judgment, what was demanded in vindication of the rights of the Crown and the independence of the nation.—(Hear, hear.) was the conviction which he, for one, could not give up. —(Hear.) What was the alternative before them? The alternative, as stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman him self, was most alarming. On the one hand, he placed subservient submission to that which had heretofore been, and which would fain again be, a tremendous engine of a tremendenis povver ;to what might have been desig nated" mere spirituality" in the 15th or 16th century, or to whatever now, or at any future time, the Pope might choose to call " mere spirituality."—(Hear, hear.) On the other hand, said the Right lion. Gentleman, if you do:not consent to this, you declare war against 8,000,000 of the people of this country.—(dear, hoar.) Surely this was a most alarming declaration on the part of the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Elear, hear.) It should be his (Lord J. Russell's) endeavour, however, to steer as steadily tee he could between these two dangers, and to prohibit that which ho considered interference, usurpa tion, aggression, without at all interfering with the spiritual exercise of the Roman Catholic religion. lie believed this could be done, and he believed that this measure would do it.—(Hear, hear.) In a great portion of the United Kingdom the measure, indeed, was con sidered not sufficiently stringent—(Hear, hear)—while in another portion of the United Kingdom, in Ireland, it was thought to go far beyond the legitimate exercise of the powers of legislation. His own conviction, however, was, that it did not sin on the one side or on the other. But, at all events, he would say, as he had said before, that Parliament was bound to exercise its own judgment in the matter; and, he could not consent to surrender that judgment, as the Right Hon. Gentleman suggested. —(Hear, hear.) They were not to be satisfied with learning from any Roman Catholic doctor, or anyßoman Catholic barrister, what was their duty in the case.— He could not conclude what he had to say without re ferring to the declaration which be had heard, with great pain, fall from his Right Hon. Friend who had lately filled the office of Governor of Malta.—(Hear, hear.) And first let him say—and he said it with plea sure—that the Right Hon. Gentleman had, in his opi nion, fully justified the appointment which he bad ac cepted, of governor of that most important possession of this country.—(Hear, hear.) li e h a d ex pr es s e d, at the period of that appointment, th a t w ith t h o Right lion. Gentleman's abilities, his experience of political life, his conciliatory views, he would do much towards redress ing the grievances known to be f e lt by th e i n habitants of Malta, and would act with perfect j u stice towards all her Majesty's subjects in that isiand.—(Hear, hear.) That anticipation had been justified; and he believed that the labours of the Right Honourable Gentleman in Malta had been most beneficial to th e C rown an d m ost honourable to himself.—(Hear.) Bat when the Right lion. Gentleman informed him that he had totally with drawn his confidence from him in con sequ ence of the line he had taken in this matter, and es p ec i a lly of the mann er in which he had in pursued that policy, he must beg leave to stat e, that all he had said and done in the case, he had ever believed, and still believed, that lie had said and done no more than would have been said and done, under similar circumstances, by a member of the House of Commons, and by a member of the Crown, in days when the whole of the community was Roman C a tholic.—(Cheers.) He believed that what would not be submitted to at this time in Prussia, a Pro te:tant country—that what would not be submitted to in Saxony, a Protestant country, though having a Roman Catholic sovereign, would not have been submitted to any more by our Roman Catholic ancestors. In the course of these discussions reference had been repeatedly made to what had been done in ancient times in Eng land before the Reformation; but . there was one remark able Act to which he would point attention, as ha v ing been paSsed after the Reformation, and under a Popish Sovereign, having for its object " to repeal all articles and provisions made against the See Apostolic of Rome since the 20th year of king Henry VIII., and for the establishment of all spiritual and ecclesiastical possessions and hereditaments conveyed . to the laity." Here, then, was a measure which, seeking .to reconcile the Pope, might be supposed to go very far in the way of concession to the pretensions of Rome; but i n this very Act, 1 and 2 Philip and Mary, cap. 8, special care was taken to provide that no bulls, dispensations, or other documents from Rome should contain anything detri mental to the authority, dignity, and pre-eminence of the Crown of England, regal and imperial.—(Hear, hear.) LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 31, 1851. Such was the spirit in which our ancestors, oven when beloni.;ing in in ~tters of religion to the Roman Catholic faith, thought it necessary to frame their Acts of Parlia ment; such was the protection which they, these Roman Catholic English—as free men—deemed it necessary to give against the pretensions of Rome to the rights, liber ti le, privileges of this c enutry, and to the authority, dignity, and p re-eminence of the Crown, regal and imperial; and he desired no other and no greater spirit to be shown by the House of Commons of the present time, when by this rescript of the Popo the rights, liberties, and privileges of the country were menaced, and the authority, dignity, and pre-eminence of the Crown, regal and imperia', in vaded.—(Cneerii.) They were now to ,do cid° either that this rescript was unlawful, as every lawyer in the House who had spoken had maintained or admitted it to be; or else they were to declare that they not only allowed the rescript to be lawful, but that when any Papal instruments came into this country, whether bulls, rescripts, or letters-apostolic, however they might shock the spirit of the nation, or oppose the authority of the Queen, Parliament had no right to resent such a pro ceeding, but must ask some Roman Catholic authority whether, according to Roman Catholic views, the pro ceeding involved only a matter of spiritual jurisdiction. —(Hear, hear.) They must look through the Papal decrees to ascertain how far the definition of spiritual affsirs extended, and when a Roman Catholic authority declared a subject to he of a spiritual nature, the power and jurisdiction of Parliament would be at once at an end.—(Elear, hear.) Sir J. GRAHAM said, the Noble Lord had stated that the House ought not to be ruled by the opinions of Roman Catholic doctors and lawyers upon the point at issue. Now he (Sir J. Graham) hoped there was no Member of that House more sincerely and warmly Pro testant than himself. He was not guided by the opinions either of Roman Catholic doctors or of Roman Catholic lawyers. He had expressed own dispassionate judg ment on the question. The Noble Lord had also unin tentionally misrepresented him upoa one point. The Noble Lord said that, in quoting the doctrine of Mr. Berke, that one sect was a very indifferent judge of what was necessary for the free exercise of the religion of another sect, he (Sir J. Graham) had applied the re mark generally to the question before the House. He had done nothing of the kind. The point to which he applied the doctrine was this :—an Hon. and Learned Friend of his had said that it was necessary to legislate, in order to relieve the hardships under which Lord Camoys, Lord Beaumont, and other members of the Roman Catholic faith, who were deemed recusants by their Church, might suffer; and he (Sir J. Gra ham) observed, that ho considered it unnecessary for them, as Protestants, to legislate with a view to relieve the religious scruples of a certain number of persons. Mr. M. O'FERRALL said, the Noble Lord had as sumed that the act of the Pope was an intentional insult to the great body of this nation, and the Noble Lord also assumed that that act, with such intention, was favourably regarded by the Roman Catholics of this country. Ho (Mr. O'Ferrall) could only say that any act of the Pope or of any other sovereign which tended wantonly to insult her Majesty or this country would meet the most loyal and determined resistance from Roman Catholics.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. O'Ferrall) believed, however, that the Pope had no such intention, though he was willing to admit that the terms of the rescript, and the manner in which it was made known to the English people, might, by persons unaccustomed to the form of such documents—(A laugh)—be deemed to some extent offensive; but the form used iu this case was the same as had been adopted for many years. He considered it was an act of very great injustice to attach blaine on this ground to the whole Catholic public of this kingdom, and to make them responsible either for the acts of the Pope or of Cardinal Wiseman. He believed that if the Noble Lord (Lord John Russell), instead of writing his letter, had ascertained whether the supposed insult was intentional or inad vertent, he would not have thought it necessary to come down to the House with the present Bill,—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord considered that the regality of the Queen was affected by documents issued by the Pope, but it appeared to him (&tr. O'Ferrall) to refer solely to a spiritual jurisdiction. He could assure the Com mittee that if the Noble Lord had proposed a declara tion setting forth in plain and distinct language that neither Protestant nor Catholic in this country would allow any power, spiritual or temporal, Pope or Em peror, to interfere with the rights and liberties of the nation, such a declaration would have been most readily subscribed by every Catholic—(Hear, hear)—and he thought, even after all that had passed, it was not yet too late to consider the question in that light. He ob jected to this Bill on the ground that if it were adopted religions liberty would depend not upon the interpreta tion of the clauses, but upon the will of the Minister of the Crown—(Hear, hear)—because at any time when a Minister chose to put the measure in force to suit his purpose, he might commence prosecutions which would interfere materially a ith the religious privileges of Catholics.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HOBLIO USE denied that the temporal authority of the Sovereign had been interfered with by the act of the Pope, and it was his firm conviction that in the course of six years this question would be looked upon in this country in a very different manner from that in which it was then viewed. They should recollect that the Roman Catholic religion was not endowed—that it was in the sine position as the several bodies of dis senters in this country, therefore any interference with the internal affairs of that religion was a hardship and an injustice. Ho wished to know why this Bill should be extended to Scotland, no Roman Catholic bishop having been appointed in that country under the re script of the Pope. lie, therefore, wished to know whether the Noble Lord would have any objection to exclude Scotland from the Bill. Foreigners coming to thin country at this moment must be astonished at the course of their legislation on this matter.. While the Pope only did so innocent an act as that appointing an archbishop of Westminster, he would not be led aside by popular clamour to vote for a measure which he consi dered was unjust in its operation. Mr. H. GRATTAN hoped that the irrisistible speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon, and the style, the toile, the temper, and forbearing remarks of the ex-governor of Malta, would make their due im pression upon the Government. They were going to decide the peace and tranquillity of Ireland, and ho beg ged to tell them that the Irish would not submit to have that peace and tranquillity disturbed by any such impo tent Bill as that of the Noble Lord. Even at the eleventh hour he ventured to enter his prot es t a gainst these pro ceedings. The late Sir R. Peel h a d to ld th em th a t Ire land was his diffi If this Bill passe d I re l an d wou ld be their impossibility. He had no hesitation in saying that if they wanted to make Repealers in Ireland they could not have a better recruiting sergeant than the Noble Lord. If they carried out this measure in all its integrity they would rue it to tho last day of their po litical existence. REYNOLDS said that notwithstanding four months' consideration of thin measure, the greatest dif ferences of opinion existed respecting it between states men on the one hand and lawyers on the other. The Attorney-General now said that this Bill would extend to Ireland, and the Honourable and Learned Member for Midhurst said directly the reverse. An experienced statesman —one to whose judgment and wisdom the public of all classes appe a l e d w i t h conf i dence — he meant the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ri pon, had addressed a speech that evening to the House, a nd, though no lawyer, he made the matter so clear as to have ended all controversy about it. And the lawyers opposite, in their attempt to answer him, had merely re peated their already-expressed opinions. To him they v afforded an apt i llustration of the character drawn by Goldsmith of t he village schoolmaster— . m e parson himself was forced to own hi s s kill Right Hon. Bar onet, had said nothing new, but had taken care to steer c lear of all ar g um ents , falling back upon his memora ble s p eech when he aske d leave to introduce this Bill, and q uoted from the legislation of what he t er med his "Ca tholic ancesters, " Lard though also, though snquis te a d ffectin g to re ply to the he would argue still." The Why should the Ca- N F ob or le ev L e rd tholics be placed in a worse position now than they were before the publication of the Pope's rescript? The clause, properly construed, was a declaration of religious dis qualification, if not of religious war, against ten mil lions of the Que en's sabtects.—(oh, oh.) What had the Roman Catholic archbishops and bishops of Ireland done to merit such a Bill? He would tell the Noble Lord. They had preserved the peace—they had reconciled the le to misgovernment on the one hand, and to star- F o p h —(011, oh.) Pass this Bill for Ire vation on the other. — or. lend, and the Roman Catholic Members for Ireland would not, he believed, trouble that House with their presence during the remainder of the session.—( A laugh.) The Bill was made up of shreds and patches—part of it h a l, part of it to Midhurst, and part of belonging to Youg, it to the Master of the Rolls. Let the House do some business.—(ob, and a laugh.) Let the Noble Lord withdraw his Bill. He (Mr. Reynolds) would advise him to bespeak a compartment for it in the C r y s t a l Pa lace.—(Laughter, and c ries of " Oh," and Question.") Yes, he advised him to place it under a glass case, and exhibit it there as a prime specimen of Whig legislation in the year 1851, for the purpose of insulting and coerc ing the Catholics of the United kingdom, Mr. OSWALD, amid cries of "Divide," said be thopght it would be well if the House were informed by the Lord-Advocate, and made completely to understand what was the state of the law in Scotland with regard to the subject betore it proceeded to a division. The LORD-ADVOCATE replied that that did not appear to be necessary; for, whatever might be the sup posed force of the old statute referred to by the Hon , Gentleman the other night, it would not in the slightest degree interfere with the proceeding in which the House was now engaged. The Hon. Gentleman stated the other night that an old Act, , dated in 1567, entitled " An A c t for abolishing the pope Pea( laugh) —was still in force in Scotland. Now the state of the law ho conceived to be this—an Act, passed in 1700, ratified and re-enacted, not that statute directly, but certain other statutes by name, and, generally, all Acts against the power of the Pope. The Act 33 Geo. 111. abolished all the penalties which were enacted against the Roman Catholics by these statutes; and, as be read the Act 9 and 10 of Victoria (1846), that Act of 1700, with all the Acts ratified by it, was absolutely and completely repealed. Mr. OSWALD—The Act of 1567 was on the statute hook, and the 33 Geo. ILI. repealed, not the Acts, but the penalties mentioned in certain Acts recited in the statute of 1700. All that the Act of 1846 did was to repeal the statutes mentioned in the Act of 1700, the penalties for which had been repealed by the 33d Geo. 111. He submitted, therefore, that the Lord-Advocate had not laid any ground whatever from which the Committee might conclude that the statute of 1567 had been repealed. Mr. OSWALD made several subsequent attempts to address the Committee, but he was received with con stant cries of " Oh," and " Divide." He was understood to move the Chairman to report progress. Lord J. RUSSELL could not understand the motive of the motion. The Lord-Advocate had declared the law of Scotland, though he was not called upon to do so; but the chine had nothing whatever to do with Scotland. The Hon. Gentleman had not therefore the smallest grounds for the course he had taken. Mr. OSWALD said the House had bean told over and over that they were only declaring the existing law. As a Member for Scotland. he had a right to know what was the law of Scotland. He threw the responsibility of refusal oa the Governmnpt. Mr. J. S. WORTLEY' hoped his Hon. Friend would not divide the House. The clause had nothing to do with Scotland, and only declared the law. The Hon. Gentleman, in throwing any impediment in the way of the Bill, had combatted the general feeling of Scotland. Mr. REYNOLDS objected to the withdrawal of the motion—(Cries of " Oh")—on the ground that he had asked a question.—(Crios of" Divide.") He would move motion after motion until he was heard. The question was one of the greatest importance to his coun try, and h© stood on his right to hava his opinions heard. He had put a question to the Attorney-Gene- ral for England in the course cf his observations that evening, and until it was answered in a satisfactory manner he should persevere. His question was, suppos ing the Bill to be law, in the event of an election for the Catholic Archbishop of Dublin, would the Pope's bull ratifying that election be illegal under the Act? Mr. DISRAELI suggested that it would be better to hear the Lord-Advocate than have an unnecessary divi sion. As far as he (Mr. Disraeli) could collect the feel ing of the Committee, they wished to hear the opinion of the Lord-Advocate, but though a Minister of course never rose without having something to say, the Lord- Advocate had resumed his seat without a word. It would be better to listen to his opinion than to have an unnecessary division.—(Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL said the Lord-Advocate had ex pressed his readiness to answer the question; but the general cry of " No" from the Committee caused him to resume his seat. The LORD-ADVOCATE had not replied for two reasons. First, because he had answered the question before; and, secondly, because the question had little or nothing to do with the clause. In his opinion the Act of 1568 was not in force, but repealed.--(Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL reminded the Hon. Member for Dublin that any rescript appointing a Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin would be illegal by the 10th of George IV., and that no Roman Catholic ecclesiastic could assume that title. Mr. REYNOLDS repeated his question. Until he received a❑ answer he should support the motion. Mr. OSWALD expressed himself satisfied. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that a rescript appoiutin; a — Roman Catholic hish9p or archbishop, with a territorial title, would be illegal under the sta tute of George IV., and under the general law of the land, as declared by the clause before the Committee. Mr. REYNOLDS would not now persevere, though the answer was not satisfactory.—(Laughter.) The amendment was accordingly withdrawn, and the Committee then divided on the original motion—namely, that the clause stand part of the Bill—when there ap peared— For the clause 244 Against it ... ... 62 Majority ... ...-182 Lord J. RUSSELL said they had now got through the first clause, and the second clause was one upon which ho apprehended there would be considerable delay, from the number of amendments standing for dis cussion. He proposed, therefore, that the Chairman should report progress, and ask leave to sit again. The first clause had been very fairly debated; but with r gard to another clause, he wished to suggest to those Hon. Gentlemen who were supporters of the Bill, and who meant to make amendments, to consider whether there was anything in those amendments which would carry the enactments of the Bill further. There were others of so objectionable a characeir that it would be impossible for the Governmedt to consent to them. He therefore wished Hon. Members, without entering on any discussion of the subject on the present occasion, to consider before Monday whether there were any of those amendments which they consi dered of sufficient importance to press on the attention of the Committee. The Bill, as it appeared to him in its present shape, stamped with a penalty the rescript of September, 1850, and by its second clause would render penal the assumption of titles to sees of existing bishops; and these two clauses would form a declaration by Par liament sufficiently strong and authoritative to vindicate the authority of the Crown, of Parliament, and of the nation. He therefore wished those Hon. Members who thought the Bill might be improved by the addition of the proposed clauses to consider whether the delay which must be expected from the divisions that must take place would not more than counterbalance the advantage which would be gained by persevering with those amendmente. He did not wish to raise any discussion, but in moving that the Chairman report progress, he thought it right to ask Hon. Members to take this into consideration. Mr. WALPOLE said, as he entertained a very strong opinion on some portion of these amendments, it might be convenient to acquaint the Government that the first amendment on the second clause which he should pro pose related to three things—first, to subject persons to penalties not merely for the assumption of ecelesiastica l l titles, but for these three matters—first, if a pen(); should do or assume to do any act, matter, or thing, under a brief declared to be unlawful; secondly, if any person should obtain or cause to be procured from the Bishop of the see of Rome, or publish or put in use ansT brief, rescript, letters apostolical, or writing for the pur pose of constituting a hierarchy with titles derived froth places belonging to the Crown of England; thirdly, if any person, under colour of any authority from the Bishop of Rome, assume or claim to have or exercise any authority. over guy pruviuuo or diocese within the United Kingdom. With regard to the first, he thought it a no. csssary consequence of declaring the brief unlawful, and, therefore, on that he would take the opinion of the Committee. On the second, he thought it was advisable that the opinion of the C ommittee and the House should be taken upon it in order to avoid fresh le, gislation. He had his doubts as to number 3, becausti there was an ambiguity in the clause, and there might be more difficulty in enforcing that prohibition than id the other two. With regard to what was called thq prosecutor's clause, it might bo convenient to state that he intended to adopt the suggestion of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Abingdon. It might also be convenient to state, in answer to an observatiori made by the Hon. and Learned Member for Athlone, with reference to the proviso, that there should be no prosecution under the first clause without the assent of the Attorney-General—that he thought the proviso of the Hon. and Learned Member for Athlone might be in corporated with the proposal of the Hon. and Learned Member for Abingdon. He also wished to press the se cond and third paragraphs in the preamble very strongly on the attention of the Committee. Lord J. RUSSELL must leave the Hon. and Learned Member to take his own course; but for his own part ho could not consent to any of the amendments which he intended to propose. There was one, however, to which ho felt perhaps a stronger objection than the others, as to which he had not stated his intentions, namely, that part in which he proposed to visit the second offence with a penalty in addition to deportation. He should be disposed to oppose the infliction of any pecuniary penalty whatever. Mr. WALPOLE would rather reserve what ho had to say on that point till Monday, when he would state generally the course which ho intended to pursue. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and ob tained leave to sit again. CUSTOMS BILL. On the motion for the second reading of this Bill, Mr. DISRAELI reminded the Chancellor of the Ex chequer of the notice which he had given, after the great change which had taken place in the financial scheme of the Government, that he would claim the right to reconsider that scheme, and he must say, for himself and others who were absent, that they could not allow any of the measures connected with it to proceed without discussion, and he therefore hoped that the Government would not persevere with the second read ing on that occasion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had not understood that the Hon. Member intended to op pose the financial proposals of the Government, though he knew that he desired to have some discussion on some part of them. The Hon. Gentleman bad not offered the slightest opposition to the course which he had proposed. Mr. DISRAELI had certainly said that there was no intention of opposing the plans of the Government, but that was before the House had come to the resolution that the income-tax should only be voted for one year. But after that important vote was arrived at, he consi dered it perfectly fair for his side of the House to deal with the financial propositions of the Government with reference to the effect of that important vote.—(Hear.) Mr. MITCHELL hoped that no great delay would be allowed to intervene in passing these measures, as the delay was injurious to trade. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not press the measure at the present moment, ender the circaxmstances; but it was desirable that no time should be lost. After some further conversation, The Bill was postponed till Monday next. INHABITED HOUSE DUTY BILL. On the motion for the second reading of this Bill, Mr. DISRAELI said ho regarded this Bill also as part of the same financial scheme, and therefore hoped the Government would not press it at that moment. Lira J. RUSSELL said the Hon. Member had cer tainly reserved to himself the liberty to support or op pose the Customs Bill. The Bridges (Ireland) Bill was read a third time and m T on he da3 s , ed reading of the Bill was t han p ost p oned till . coe passed. COLONIAL PROPERTY QUALIFICATION BILL. Mr. HUTT moved the second reading of the Colonial Committee in p l z : o ar f:mY. ents Property Qualification Bill. (Ireland) Bill passed through Mr. STANFORD sai d he was opposed to all attempts of the kind to alter the Morns Bill. fie moved that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Mr. SCHOLEFIELD seconded the amendment, on the grouud that they ought not to extend what ho considered the objectionable practice of requiring a n y qualification for seats in that House. After a few words from Mr. HUTT and Mr. MUL• LIFGS in defence of the Bill, • The House divided, when there appeared— For the second reading Against it - ... 72 ... 31 Majority for the second reading .:; —4l The Bill WILI therefore read a second time. Mr. LABOUCLIERE move for leave to introduce a Bill to alter and amend certnia provisions of the Land Clauses Consolidation Act of 1845 in Ireland. The ob ject of the Bill was to substitute a system of arbitration i rk place of trials by juries in carrying out the Act of 1845. _ Colonel DUNNE expressed his disapproval of the Bill. It would introduce into Ireland a principle which was not in force in this country. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. Oa the motion of Colonel ANSON, leave was given to bring in a Bill to continue the survey of Great Britain, B3rwiek-upon-Tweed, and the le of Man. On the motion of Mr. 71ULLINGS, leave was given to bring in a Bill for further remedying a defect in the titles of lands purchased for charitable purposes, and for obviating difficulties as to copyhold or customary lands conveyed for such purpose. Adjourned at a Quarter to One o'clock. PAR,LIAMENTAR,Y DIVISIONS. (From the YGtes and Proceedings of the Howe of Commons.) FRIDAY, MAY 30. ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES ASSUMPTION BILL. (IN THE COMMITTEE.) Question put," That Clause one stand part of the Bill." The Committee divided: — MAJORITY—AYES, 244. MINORITY—NOES, 62. Greene, John Oswald, Alexander Higgins, Geofge Peel, Frederick • Ilobhouse, T. B. Ponsonby, C. F. Keating, Robert Power, Dr. Lawless, Cecil Pusey, Philip M'Cullagh, W. T. Roche, E. B. Megan, W . H. Sadleir, John Maher, N. Scholetield, William • Meagher, Thomas Scully,Francis Mahon, O'Gorman Seymour, H. D. Monsen, William Smith, R. V. Moore, G. H. Smythe, George Murphy, F. S. Somers, J. P. Norreys, Sir D. Suillian, Michael Nugent, Sir Percy Talbot, J. H. O'Brien, John Tenison, E. K. O'Brien, Sir T. Tennent, . . J. O'Connell, John Wegg-Prosser, F. O'Connell, M. J. O'Ferrall, More O'l'laherty, Anthony ReynolT, L J E o ß n S li Osborne, Ralph Keogh, William Armstrong, R. B. Arandel;;Earl of Barron, Sir H. Blake, Martin J. Bright, John Burke, Sir T. J. Clements, Charles Colebrooks, Sir T. Corbally, M. E. Crawford, W. S. Currie, Henry Dawson, T. V. Devereux, J. T. Fagan, James W. Fox, J . French, F. Geach, Charles Gladstone, W. E. Goold, Wyndham Grace, 0. D. J. Graham, Sir J. Grattan, Henry COLONIAL PROPERTY QUALIFICATION BILL. Order for Second Reading read; MotiOn made, and Quei tion proposed, " That the Bill be now read a second time :" Amendment proposed, to leave out the word " now," and at the end of the Question to add the words " upon this day six months." Question put, " That the word now' stand part of the question." The House divided MAJORITY—AYES, - 72. ' Prewen, C. H. Nugent, Sir Percy Geach, Charles Paget, Lord A. Goold, Wyndham Paget, Lord C. Grenfell, C. Pascoe Patten, J. W. Grey, Sir George Filkington, James nestle, Alexander Rich, Henry Hawes, B. Russell ,F. C. H. Hayter, W. G. Seymer, H. K. Hill, Lord Marcus Smollett, A. Hindley, Charles Somerville, Sir W. Hollond, Robert Spearman, H. J. Howard, E. G. Spooner, R. Kershaw, James Sullivan Michael King, P. J. Talbot, C. It. Lewis, Sir T. Thompson, Colonel Lockhart, W. Verner, Sir W. Loveden, Pryse Wakley, Thomas Miles, Philip W. S. Wawn, J. T. Moncreiff, James Westhead, J. B. Morris, David Williams, W. Mostyn, E. M. L. Wilson, James Mulgrave, Earl of Wood, Sir W. P. Mullings, J. R. TfILERS. Nicholl, J. Hutt, William Norreys, Sir D. Aglionby, H. A. 4bdy, Sir T. N. Adderley, C. B. Anson, Colonel Ansley, T. C. Baines, M. T. Bass, lcf. T. Bennet, Philip Berkeley. C. L. G. Blair, Stephen BriscO,.l,l - . Cavendish, W. a Christy, Samuel Clive, H. B. Cockburn, SirA. Codrington, Sir W. Cowper, W. F. Douglas, Sir C. Duncuft, John Dundas, Admiral Dundas, Sir David Dunne, Colonel Ellice, Edward Ferguson, Sir B. Foley, J. H. Freshileld, J. W. 111(INORITY-NOES, 21. Arkwright, Georg Greene, Thomas Stuart, H. Baldwin, C. B. Hall, Colonel Taylor, Thomas E. Bateson, T. Henley, J. W. Tyler, Sir G. Blackstone, W. S. Hill, Lord E. Waddington, H. S. Boldero, George H. Lowther, Colonel Willoughby, Sir H. Duncan, George Blasterman, J. TELIMS. Ferrer, James Scholefield, William Stanford, J. F. Galway, Viscount Seaham, Viscount Forester, G. C. THE RECEIPT GOLD DUST ROBBERY. The official investigation by the authorities of the South- Western Railway Companyinto the circumstances of the mysterious gold-du.st robbery was proceeded with on Wed nesday and Thurslay last, at the offices of the company, in' the York-road, and was continued until a late hour each evening, in the presence of several members of the board of directors. On Thursday a portion of the guards, engine drivers, and breaks men were summoned to attend, together with all the servanlts employed at the stations on the line at which the train stopped on the night in question. One of the attendants at a station was upwards of four hours under examination ; this was followed by taking the evidence of Morgan, the breaksznan to the train, which terminated the proceedings of the day. Several other persons are still to be examined, and it is believed that the inquiry will extend over two or three days more, as it is the intention of the company to bring forward all the parties in any way con cerned, and to sift the matter as far as it is possible for them to do so. Inspector Field and Sergeant Shaw, of the metropolitan detective police, and the City detective officers, Trent and Huggett, have been busily employed since the last examina tion at Winchester in collecting evidence, and the latter officers have made such inquiries at the different stations on the London and South-Eastern Railway as there is reason to believe will enable them to fix positively on the person who travelled by the seven o'clock train to Dover, on the Friday morning after the robbery, and with whom, it is believed, the prisoner Plampin was seen in conversation at the Lon don-bridge terminus, shortly after he left the coffee-house at the Eastern Counties Railway. It may be generally stated, that as far as the inquiry has gone, nothing has transpired to fix the slightest suspicion upon any servant in the employ of the respective companies, and how the boxes were ab stracted remains, up to the present moment, as much a mys tery as ever. COMMITTAL OF THE PRISONER PLAMPIN. WINCHESTER, FRIDAY EVENING.—This day William Plampin, who stands charged with being concerned in the gold dust robbery on the South-Western Railway, was again brought up. Mr. Crombie, who appeared for the prosecution, on the part of the South-Western Railway Company, said, that in consequence of aie suggestion thrown out by - the Worshipful Chairman on the occasion of the last exami nation of the prisoner, he intended to close his case this day, and upon that to ask for the committal of the pri soner on the charge of stealing the gold dust in ques tion. As he had stated last week, inquiries had been going on between the South-We,tern Railway and the Royal Mail Steam-packet Companies, for the purpose of connecting the prisoner with other parties, but of which they were not prepared to offer the proof that day. There could be no doubt, however, that a robbery bad been committed, and to the connexion of the prisoner with it he was prepared with proof that day. After the evidenCe had beer: given, The Mayor said that the Bench were not unanimous, but there was a great majority in favour of sending the prisoner for trial, and ho must say that he was one of that number. From the evidence that had been adduced, he thought that an opportunity should be given of in vestigating it in another court. The prisoner would, therefore, be committed to the next Winchester sessions. The prisoner was then formally committed, but will be brought up again on Friday next fur the depositions to be finally completed. THE LATE COLLISION ON THE MID LAND RAILWAY. CHESTERFIELD, FRIDAY.—The inquiry into the cir cumstances connected with the late lamentable collision on the Midland Railway was resumed this morning. Sir Isaac Morley and Mr. Paget attended as directors of the Midland Company. Further evidence having been received, the jury, at half-past three o'clock, having been in consultation two hours and a quarter, returned the following verdict:— " The jury arc unanimously of opinion that the deaths of John Megnell and John Blake have been caused by the reckless speed Samuel Stretton was driving the engine of the luggage-train on the night of Monday, the 19th of May, and pronounce a verdict of manslaughter against him. The jury can not sufficiently condemn the practice of allowing a luggage train to start five minutes after a passenger train, without efficient measures being taken to ensure the former keeping its relative distance from the other,, es marked in the time-table. The jury consider the officials guilty of great negligence in not placing a break behind the last carriage of the passenger train on the night the accident occurred. It is also their opinion that a proper person ought to be on duty at the semaphore at the Clay-cross station, to attend to the night signals, as well as those in the day, and strongly reprobate the neglect of this precaution. The jury consider the prac tice highly improper of allowing passenger trains to stop at stations not named in the time-tables. The Coroner then issued his warrant for the appre hension and committal of Stretton, the driver of the goods train, to Derby, to await his trial. ARCHITECTURAL PUBLICATION SOCIETY.—The an nual general meeting of the subscribers to this society was held yesterday, at N 0.16, Lower Grosvenor-street; Mr. Syd ney Smirk°, A.R.A., in the chair. The report, which was read by Mr. Wyatt Papworth, honorary secretary, stated that the difficulties attending the early and consecutive publica tion of the Cyclopredia of Architecture were such as had in duced the committee to publish it in that order which was most convenient and most economical for the present, taking care, however, that when the whole work shall have been gradually issued that it should form a complete and consecu tive volume, each part falling into its proper place, without regard to the actual date of its publication. From the state ment of accounts. it appeared that the rece i pts for the year rther ended the 30 th of Apri l, 1851, amounted to 4231., and th e expen diture to 29/. The liabilities of the society amounted t o 3061., and there remained a balance in hand for pu blications of 88/. 9s. 10d. The report was rec eived and a dopted, and several resolutions, expressive of tie subsen bers' appreciation of the manner in which the businessofthesociety was conducted, were passed, and a vote of thanks to the chairman concluded the proceedings. THE LATE STARVATION CASE. -The examination of Robert and Louisa Carpenter, who were remanded from last Thursday on a charge of having cruelly neglected and ill-treated Christiana Carpenter, child of the former, and step-daughter of the latter, were to have been brought up on Wednesday, but in conseq uence of a medical certificate, stating that it would endanger the life of Christiana Car penter to attend that day atthe Council House, to give Carpenter and Louisa his wife, and that she will not be in a fi t state to appear before ne x t Tuesday, the case was further adjourned until that being known th a t th e pr i soners were reman d e d unt4lay i i 7 Vecl- . t nesday, an imme nse crowd entire l y f ill ed B r id e we ll-lane, and the greatest excitement prevailed. When the certificate from Mr. Bernard was i eceived, the police communicated the fact of the postponement of the case to the assembled crowd; but as Mr. Inspector Bell said, " We could not convince them that the prisoners would not be brought up to-day; the reply we invariably received was, we are not to be gam monad.' " '1 he unfortunate girl is still at the central station, were she is treated according to the requirements of her pitiable condition. From her debilitated state, some time must elapse before she is perfectly restored to health; b u t there is no doubt of her ultimate recovery.—Bristol Journal, [ADVERTISEMENT.] --11.G110Way' 5 Ointment and Pills wonderfully efficacious in curing several Wounds in a per son's Leg.—Extract of a letter from Margaret Jones to Messrs. Russell and Watson, of Bacchus Marsh, Melbourne Port Philip, dated Jan. 6, 1831. " Gentlemen,—Since I ap plied at your sto res for a supply of Holloway's Ointment an Pills, I have made a sound cure of my leg after havingsuffered from several wounds in it for more than two years. I tried previously many doctors in the country without obtaining any relief whatever from their remedies, but by using Holloway's valuable medicines for a few weeks every wound is healed, and I my leg is now perf e c tl y s o und.” — Soldby all Dru g gists, and at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, Landon. S Ti r ( -7 • 4---71 , 1%, x , ty,,,•)„...,vi i*., J,.../ ,„:t..... „ ~ ,•-„,-, ..,e4;.7.4..., (7, ,:.z. ~.z . „...., Y" , • . \t -45 .4 ' COURT CIRCULAR. Ha Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince ftwakr vdsm with the Princess Royal, accompanied by their Royal Highumes the Duke and Duchess of Saxo Cobourg Goths, and -- Duk - e -- Ernest - bf Wiirteinberga continued their inspection of the works of industry of all nations at the Exhibition yesterday morning. , The Queen and the Royal party were attended by the Hon. Matilde Paget, Colonel the Hoe. Charles Grey, and., Lieut.-Colonel Francis Hugh SecYrneur. Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales and Prince Alfred, attended by Mr. Birch, also:visited. the Exhibition yesterday forenoon. .Their Royal Highnesses the Duke - and. Duchess of Sake Cobourg-Gotha, and Duke Ernest of Wititeinburg, at tended •by Lieut.-Colonel. Francis Seymour 'visited the Zoological Gardens; in - the 'Regent's-Park, Yesterday morning. His Royal • Highness Prince Albert,' aceOnipanied by their Royal Highnessei the Duke' of Saxe Cobourg Gotha; and Duk e E rnest of Wurtembarg, and his Serene Highness. the Prince bf . Leinengen, atd attended by Lteut,Colonel-F. H. Seymour, hotionied JialaVl Martin, Esq., with a i v,isit,at Lindsay House, Cbalsea, on Thurs day atternoon, to inspe - c.this new picture of "The Last Judgment." a ;33.;51.e_Treskow attended the Duke of Saxe Ceibourg Gothts. •,; ;., Her Royal Highneit the ',Dichosa of Saxe Cobourg Gotha, attended' by the Baroness deWangenheim, - Lieut.- Colonel E. Seymour, -.and •M.13..da Trelikow visited the Colosseum yesterday afternoon : • - • t '' • E l s Royal Highness Alberkprosided yesterday afternoOn eta meeting of ilin.Paeyal,Oommission for the Exhibition of the Works of Industry:l4 ttli-N&libile, at the Exhibition in Hyde - -park:" His . , buess arrived at three o'clock, attended by Lieut.-Colonel F. IL Seymour. , ‘. The CJmn*tgi9n9rA.PT9saa4- ivero,_the Duke Of-Bac eleueh, the Earl ef•Rosse, Earl, Granville ? Lord .Stinley, the :Right Hon Giadetpne, Sir - ehttrleaLyell, Sir Alderman ,Thompsroon,ettiPes. r a . ol E etii d ha g ee a d r ii ß4) wee, Ch arles' Easitake, Cubt4t , Mr- GOtt M ecutivo r. Job,ii She PO di . ' find li tO r.4 t . hr t ' Ro t Y it al u -C ts o e m li' m Colonel Reid, Cha ja ir ns ba ida : M n , Lieut.-Colonel. Lloyd, Special CPunn,i,"imor.;"iud Dr. Lson fair Special CorninisiionetT.,Were ip at teriddiTce five 'o'clock, when The meeting broke up soon aft e r Prince Albert, attended by his Equerry in Witiqnk, re . turned to Buckingham Pala&' Helena,Ths Q a u c o c e o n i ;,13 with n ed P by r ti t e , A e D 1 b a s e r h t 6 s a s n o d f t s h a e r ec Princess obur Coburg Gotha, took a.drive.yesterdai afternoon in an open car riage and four. , Lord Alfred Paget and 'Oa' .Hon. C. Grw; attatidod on horsebsek. Prince Albert. acaptiapanied by the .Duka.of, Saxe Coburg Gotha and- Duke Ernest Of Wurtetaberg, rode out on horseback yesterday afternoon. Lieut.-Colonel Z. H. Seymoar M.'l3. de Treskow attended. • Her Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince Albert, accompanied by-their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Saxe Coburg Gotha, and Duke Ernest of Wertemberg, honoured the performance of the French Plays with their presence last evening. The Royal suite were Viscountess JOcelyn, the Hon.,MarY Seymour, Baroness de Wangenheim, Lord-Duffer-in, 'Colonel Hon. Charles Grey, Lietitenant-ColOnel F. a Seymour, and M. B. de Treskow. . His Serene Highness the Prince of Leinengen visited her Majesty's Theatre last evening. A Cabinet 'Connell was held yesterday afternoon at the Foreign-office, Downing-street. The Muria ere pre sent were—Lord•John Russell, the Lord Chancellor, the Marquis of Lansdowne, the Earl of 'Mmto, SiiGeorge Grey, Viscount Palmerston, Earl Grey, the Chancellor of •the -Exchequer, the Right Hon. H. Labouchere, Lord Broughton, Sir Francis Baring, and the Marquis of Clanricarde. The Council sat two hours and a half. Lord Lucan had an interview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday, at his official residence, Down ing -street., Dispatches were sent off yesterday from the Colonial office to the Governor of the Canadas, anti the Governors of the other North American Colonies. COWES, ISLE OF WIGHT. (FROM OUR OWN CORRESPONDENT.) COWES, MAY 30. ISLE OF WIGHT COUNTY ELECTION. CHAIRING OF THE MEMBER.—The whole of the Liberal part of the population of the island turned out yesterday (Thursday), to bear the state of the poll de clared, and to chair the Free-trade Representative of the Royal Isle. Newport was all alive, and carriages, loaded with happy faces, filled the streets, but there were very few private ones. The great of the land were not to be found there to honour the procession ; there were very sew large landowners, no parsons, and hardly any officers in either the army or navy ; the taxeaters were all on the other aide—but still there were carriages , ,, enough to reach from the Town-hall,down Quapstreet, along Sea-street,.aLd up High-street, to the Hall again, so that both ends met. Mr. Dawes was 'most rapturously received. made an excellent speech, as did Mr. Jaques, Mr. A. Clarke, and other of his friends ; they then pa roled throagh all the principal streets of proud New port, to the serious annoyance of the Protectionists. The farmers dared not show--'tis their fate, at present, either to ho led or driven,-=the Majority peter the former, and make a merit of necessity ; out there are still a stubborn few, of the John Bull sort, who, if they cannot do what they are now convinced is right, set up, actually jib, and will not go at all. Tee Protectionists had never calculated on being de feated, and the blow has come on them with double se verity; they can scarcely believe that they are beaten now—the impudence, the insolence of people, whom no body knew or eared for, setting their opirrionrurrugainst their betters, has driven them mad; they have sustained a defeat they can, never recover Ohe people are now aware of their strength, and at the next registry more than 100 electors will be added to the last. AlraAcoLons ESCAPE.—This morning, as a lad (a son of Neptune) was on the top of a 50-round ladder, paint ing the spouts on the roof of Mr. bd. Raisey, the yacht. builders' house in the High-street, Hatch and Co.'s luggage-van was carelessly driven between the foot of the ladder and the houeee kaocking_the ladder_down and the painter off, from a height of between 40 and 50 feet. Evorybcdy t tought that the poor fellow would be dashed ' ' to pieces, but, providentially, he fell, on the top , of the canvas-roof ot the van, breaking two - of the'loops, but none of his bones, not even injuring himself in the least; he directly leaped off on to the ground, Jack then hitehedstp his trousers, - and, - stepping - up - to tile carrier, exclaimed, " If you come that again, my fine fellow, I'll crack your head—you have capsized my paint and sprung the udder." NAVAL INTELLIGENCE: APPOINTMENTS. Lieutenant—The lion. H. W. Chotwynd (]850), to the Cumberland, 70, flag-ship of Sir George, 60 , 13 " 4 West Indies: Clerks—B. P. Heather, in charge to the Janus steam vessel, Lisbon; Nicholas Giles, to the Merlin steam packet, Mediterranean; Alex. Allen, to the Vengeance, 84, Spithead. The Port-Admiral, Sir John OrainanneY, K.C.8., hi company with Commodore .Lord J ohn Hey, paid an official visit on Thursday afternoon to Keyligna, and minutely inspected the new steam works now in progress. Admiral the Earl of Dundonald, G.C.8., in his flag ship Wellesley, 72, Captain Goldsmith, was at Ber muda May 6, waiting to ba relieved by Vice-Admiral weiaqdSir G. F. Seymour, aa, G.C.H., in the Cumberland, 70. T ROOP S Fon TRR CAPR.The screw-frigate Meg mra , Master-Commander Hoffineister, will bo Italy at ant for s v t i h Spithead ll e rn Cape. She is to return to Sh eerne ss on the 6 p thi e n e s e t d ant le wh c e e a rk, she to m il b be rk pa t i h d e Regiment, ad vance, immediately, calling at St. Helena and Ascension. Wildfire steam-tender was ordered on Monday last from Sheerness, to run down the coast for the protection n, C U t t a o h l i ae docked. Warden, on of the British fishermen. arr ß iv e a tr l i a b t u p tio e n tis 22 o , u s th tea fr m n - m fr ia ig i a s t b e o , g r ea tg Vengeance, unsand s B m 4 a , l i C a a r p ni t a s iant SpitheadLor d EE. in charg e of Lieutenant Sterols, yesterdayß tsell , x morning. Braised Portsmouth on on Thu rsday, with marines and marine artillery from Perobrok arrly ty e x d , a 6 t , e, and sailed in the after noon for Plymouth. ROYAL MARINES.—DINNER TO ADMIRAL OMMAN" rine Corps gave a su m pt uous entertainment to NEY.—On Wednesday l as t the officers of the Royal 1161 ° - Sir John Ommann e y , 1 K .C.8., on the occas i on o f his recent appointment as Commander-in-Chief at Dern: port. Amongst t h e guests invited to meet t h e Admiral Admiral were Commodore Lord John Hay, C. 8., CaPtainl7 intendeut Rich, Captain MiCormick, Capliiii Warren, a Lieutenant Lord John Hay, Flag-Lieutena nt __ Dr . Rae, Mr. Dyer, secretary to the Comm intendant, 8.7,c. ~_, Tx ' 'sjesty birthlay is Commodore -Super intendant, MAY 30.--..er A ordered to be kept here to-rnorrowe The and will be cqe ;fleet will fire a brated with much circamstance.o,oi oc e the troops in this s o t tl i n l e d r the sov e Gosport . general royal salute at o .. t 12, concluding with three garrison will line the ra d een grand fete at shore and fire a feu de joieocaky 'jet :l c :an t cheers; the men of the have holyday ; many of them will tal establishments williion, and others to a go to the Great Bello) Dorchester Castle an „ a the C larence Gardens; tho military ,s „,, colour on the grand parade a t 11; will troop th e' C i tl i e ", - , - ill give a sumptuous ben ' hi s the Port- Adatirso t he heads of quet, at official Mansion t .departm ents; the cap the port efficers, the Captains of the tains of th t: leet 'the commandant of R Turkish s h i ps, •Ii R oyal Marinas and : eeat Marine Artinery, & c., and Lady Capel will give R-. - . nte in the evening. a sotrec danla t dinner The Mayor gave a ion l grand ci-leera l ast night to the corporation, 00 usg i b traey, and a la of circle of nionds in honour of t h e same oe . ea 6 ion , it the Geor ge H o t e l. Th e Miral Zafir, Turkish frigate, Captain Mehemet 8.4, ia agi-in ail ataut, and will propably drop out to spitheLd to. morrow. WOOLWICH, MAX 30.—His Royal Highness Prince Henry of the. Notkicrlands visited Woelsvich Dockyard to-day, accouipanif:d by Captain May an d two other offi cers or th e Rey,,l Navy ot that country. His Royal Highness proceeded to witness the working of Nasmyth'a hau r - r-er• Ho also inspected the saw mind, and then the San FiorenZO 50 akin frigate, building at the east end of the Tart AitEr going over the NVarri(.:r convict hulk' the yard to witness the he proceeded to the west end of . . 1 . 1 the factory and thorn wont working cf the machines i _. lir, ship t i 0,,,p8a of n l2 ou board the Royal Albert u board g the Grteleoll'erek'S.t.,eam building. Ho also went o kof ' of Partook the hosp itality frigate, and afterwards p Commodore Eden, and left Woolwich from the Charlton pier for London at qu arter past three o'clock. The Governolo Slr - dinian steam-frig ate arrived at fternoon. Woolwich yestel Mr. Adam An was unanimously elected Dean of the Faculty of Advocates, at Edinburgh, on Tues day. in the p l ac e of by. Dil.`elll, elevated to the bench. , rile new planet just discovered in England by Mr. guiniddawyaute.: afraoTzg.t ej:ha ari 3 Observatory - "on - the tight of quite greis the ,f sir ould it on Aber ?d in ch s 3031, ants that wee