The Sun. — London, England, 1845-03-18 00:00:00

t! ,0 " - ‘ /, t he Rieht Hon. 'Baronet had been mad e e ar lier it mi g ht getshi av e hewn some ground f or t h e H on. Mem b er fer Somers r e Posipen'ne his motion. He rejoiced in the imposition the incorne-tax as a step towards an improved syst . em of taes.• - ° ,l ; but he complained that in the reduction of tatation l)° which h a d been meths in consequence, the Iciest ot:oerous elms had not been considered.—( Hear, hear.) !,,:lati at trught almost thi c k, on l oo ki ng at the spectacle exhibited House, that the Hon. Member fir- Stockport eat the !clgh-priest of free trade, and that those who sat on the Tree ,tt,rY bench es chaunted responses to hi s s o ng .—( L aug ht er .) tete were t wo portions of her Majesty's dominio- a in which krictt ture was at present prosperous—lreland and Scotl ' 7 and — "d su • •s. Los, the pposed It was won reference o t this that the Noble Membe r for the City of London had said that " pr sva: the bane of agriculture "—a proposition which t ertio , • been cordially assented to by the Hon. Member for Sun seriand, end ably and warmly supported by many on the °Pisteite side of the House. The only meaning which he eoalsl attach to the expression was, that because a tr was not prosperous while protected, therefore, pro tneitl'On was its bane.—( Hear, hear.) The connexion appeared e - , :4 , 1 1 ,c 1 not to be inevitable. There was another principle at se cont emporaneously a it h protection. He was one of those , (14' "ought that the monetary system of this country— ogiathter)—hatl principal influence on its productive powers, '"at systern hae been operating conjoietly with what hail st , d beec termed the bane of agricult re." In conclusion. he e as ft Got press his firm conviction that the Right Hon. Rar..ner fo r '' e t lc t disproved the statements mace by the Hon. Member ~,i,herfetshire, and, therefore, not absolved them from the f ri ,;!aion of affording to their constituents relief; and however th. w, OR that relief might be, it would be taken as an indication t "If the distress increased, the relief would hereafter be ex pailded. The Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and d ss „ - P 3 was, it appeared, engaged in considering many subjects iti-d7 interesting to agriculture. He believed that that tact, for su e Home one of the speech delivered by the Secretary of State Home Department would have a most beneficial effect. ritg.pall means many would b e sa ti s fi e d an d assure d ; being e to feel th at t h ey had one of their own body, and one who gi ` s t ribt for get them, among her Majesty's principal ail 41e -74 Hear, hear. ) do n , t. t JOHN RUSSELL said the lion. Gentleman had 1 1 4 4 "tin th e h onour to allude to an expression which fell from at the very b eg i nn i ng o f t h e sess i on ; na i tnely, that Pre ggis e etton was th e b ane o f agriculture." Now, f that bq . _ Let requi re d any j ustif i cation or proof, it would be given what had passed that night. The Hon. Gentleman who prtd'ttlegb..t forward the motion stated that in various instances tee s c `lon had been broken in upon. He went through the C o ; re4 t Bills which had been passed under the present _ 44 er e tg. nlent—the corn-law of 1842, the tariff of the same year, hs g ,„`"e Canada corn-bill of 1843. Ile did not venture, but -}:", to propose that any of those laws should be repealed; Frop os `t y ine stated those Bills, he left the question, merely to ss t i cti that the sum of 275,000/. should be taken off . the R oo t Grates,_( Hear, hear.) He was followed by the Right ti ens e t entlernan the Secretary of State for the Home Depart lest d' t i c a speech which the Hon. Gentleman who had spoken te,,,,,' - e•ated to be so highly consolatory to the aerieultural in- N u t that it could not tail to have a beneficial effete upon the had,".f• Now what was it that the Right Hon. Gentleman 4,t' ti t id Which was of so consolatory a nature ?—( Hear, hear. ) t ) t re: pose to r es t ore p ro t ec ti on to its former high rate? of ha pose add itional to thflux theet andro le co p rn from Canada ? Nothing of the revent kind. e in What o ught grit Hon. Gentlemau said was, that the Legi!latere ,fote,,,,t° giv e progress i ve fac i l i t i es for the importation of ~ukCe , e , ° rllmodities—( Cheers) that if persons wished L 'Alse '„"," a god price could be obtained for agricultural pro " 4 Pa r t of the country, the mode of ascertaining it was 1041"tre into the state of Manchester and of Glasgow, to ask I t hdg e 't e l ' e tbe condition of the manufacturing districts in Eng • ( Ile ocotland, an d if t h ese were flourishing, then it was tis g 7: .. ed th at aericulture would flourish in a similar propor te( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Was that any e.ncourage ittesie".,Pro'ection ?—( Hear, hear.) Was it not directly the " i tti t g - i t — s( Hear, hear.) Was it not showing that as they Itit lttif NI away protection, and encouraged the progress of tceigraetures,s they had afforded the means of improving agri. a ?-- ,,( Hear, hear.) But as the Right Hon. Gentleman 'are was ' a speech made the other night which had not g, g• -"tered—( Hear, hear) -which he did not believe very tos tl 4 be ins aileasvered, and which showed in what manner . pro 'De„," as injurious to agriculture—he meant the admirable Elate, -- , e rfhl speech of the Hon. Member for Stockport . — " e ar. ) He believed it might be shown with e lita Most arti c l es , as that Hon. Member had shown with :tl, ir e& '° sericultu re , that the consequence of legislative pro bit : ttria w hile it a mea ' red to be a favour to that particular cla s sb sos wet 'ecteu, operated against all the other secti ons o f e °il i nity, and therefore exposed that class to odium and e 're sn ' 'he believed the conseq ence to be that it tended to neighrh slovenly -( Hear, hear )—wanting in energy in that ▪ A sg - ', occupation ; and that it induced them to rely . upon eedofr"r.t,he Legislature to secure to them a certain price in- Otild ~`l 3 lt.g upon their . own skill and energy. That he iWis t4 ." o,lssioseel to say with regard to almost &ny article. in'tee,t4ttaineet that if ever there was a country which was dis `tte'ned it once by great energy and intelligence, and at the t- , ° '" by rem possession of extensive capital, which . was 4 , 1, 11 „„,'° ba D - Ic r y d in any enterprise that required ads - ta t la Yrnent,ihi; e wes that country L t them rely then ttq f or ,lenerg}, intelligence, and capital ; let them look to s• '"e Means of wealth and for the encouragement . of Petitm,y, th, , tt b e and iet them not rely . upon that . broken reed which witb obtained from legislative protection. H e say in o,st g b r egard to any article of mana'acture, for which. le • - Yt, the manufacturers themselves sought protection is >as°~ttve means.—(.—( Hear, hear.) . . He was happy to say k,i'rtip,,:"Leturers, now—days, perceiving their great success ig`gerseonntries and finding that they had nor the smallest I ,:t e s litat protect ' ion, had adopted sounder theories of corn tp ) But with regard to some of these s t , i `ot e t ,r r es, there . might have been an appearance of success ar t . i . ,,? of restriction and monopoly, because there were t• h e - :" of which no great quantity was consumed, and for tp d na , was no absolute necessity in the community. ow, tsslh ta lta one on which there was a monopoly in Holland, ree f " in which there was a prohibitory duty in this country . egad to spices and silk. The world could live without h t tht, s g ,' People could have articles of raiment without silk. lis t tos co absolute want of those articles. Wifh re . gard to t' gt t t ' l os that kind there might be a very high price . in pro s-s°, t he demand, and legislative protection might to a th g - th it of be successful with respect to a particular class, tt etti ta i ere an injury to all the rest of the community. But s sti ithral body had no such advantage. While orn and lioo g L 'e , of food were cheap, they might have a c duty of tle,i 4 ei ge ';"" 5 05., and the community would not complain ; i 'te t tta. -4t elY articles of food reached a very high price, s d o t csturally co mach discontent that the system itself hstil4 dos .Orally hear.) That had been found to pt ek l ti g ", ration of ' the system ever since 1815• when he kith7etgg''',.etober ef that House, though he was not i e c e deb ites on the corn-law, the farmers said that tttiu "v han 80s. would be a remunerative price to them, l telstitVolasssibl e that they could live and carry on cu n . - es e k 14I Pese h , less price for their corn.. Why at that day it . la, of t i 'e that any Leg which bad regard to tht ' e ( mutt-% could a:tempt to maintain a law which 401. 1 ,,t Prier as 50s. Well, the protect n was relaaeit, and ke tti t l 1ez,114-ssed. But that again was 'mind too high. Tee Paued and after certain time there was a general kn't7t4ithekgatinst that law lik a ewise. It was Props ed in 1839 Ytof - an d he de. lared at that time that he was i .11 I,lllod' an d f duty, and o . f . a relaxation of the kt fes'ettt s" c 'e who were placed in opposition to the Govern 'Wlt°. that day said, that the protection was not too ,N l* Of ou ght to be maintained; that they would not throw 1 1. 1 li g i l t trae sti l t 8 '!8 into the lottery of legislation . . that even if the ( .1 the v h ad come forward as an united Government, „were not, they would oppose any altera tg"l:',, Nees „were existing law. Well, a change of He ; took place ; and those who were apparently t. '6 es'gtl- into rower , A n d w h at had they heard from the • het ti ratan that night ? Why, they had heard that ever sbi9l.l• )troteet'.le Parliament had been gradually breaking down h2,tetetco; that it was br ken down first liy the corn-law tte7 il l 1 1 , 5 " , by the tariff, and, last,y, by the Canada Ito ) "Therefore, the case was as he (Lord John 411 C rePresented it. Although it might sound very ie t t °f nisi, tit Protecting native industry, and of giving that 1 1 "est hich was cuncerned in agriculture, &greater h ta p , or _ Ai n t ,e Price of thei• produce than any interest in the teks,',et, co that might at first appear a very geod v't t o n " "NI they cave in effect to Hee eighteen fixed ons kkllttislgth`°osume food at a certain high price to be by t kid : r e, such W 4.9 found to be the discontent, and, he twa gg qo' c ch the danger in consequence, that every pru ng'ime trtrnerit would say with the Right Ho ttittois ectlaman opposite. " Look at our iiscreasing i t te,!e ' s t e rl d see wheth it be safe to continue the law as e wit(",ral 4 °t have tree er trade in corn immediately, let us say, ° °Rht in through acme of our colonies ; let us. in j'eti• ,• :.°rne facility or other by which the ex . treme . rigor 4\1, 1 11 ' ttli 7. ,, a s,Yhe made more tolerable, and by which this pro- Ltoiss e lfreC, Is said to be so necessary, may he less a protec liikek"t be a t t la ri it is in appearance."—( Hear, .heat.) But ti aga e ll aid that, after all, even if this protection could not high a pitch as was desired by those who e 't e it etu it, tth'it"re ere rnment into power . for the purpose of main t e g h it should be a mischief ; th e t a, aft a' n° reason w • 1. even if it did t tre " all, be no basis to a . .grieu lure eh, ek for the sake of which it was sought. But then t - t ) g )• ' ' one „d° that argument which had been used so irre lilte- p 'aid that by this legislation, winch tended to e l iens e •ehich they could nut maintain, they (lid give a gbttirtNk t° the farmer—( Hoar, hear )—they did induce law an nut to hi. own energy —(llear.) 6. 'hi l '. him to neglect chose means upon which he tu depend—snch means as economy, a ! ,r , . 1,4 il trl I ,l`"ed science. by leading him to think tles4 -randlord who went up to Parliament expressly le t4 Y, at'i;itat whatever his cultivation might be—be it ake e 4 fid gh t g o tant—iliere should be a high price seeure ig r kte;`Ore f ur l t he need leok no further than the Acts of the ffl t ki .• a Proper remuneration, if he wished for a rem 'lSt 'the 'n he a k ,l4i l r up orith . m . arket,. lie would not detain the House a l 's! Prot ett . , s point having, he thought, su . fficiently shown il, t Or g , th e g ., 4 " 1 upon which the farmers relied was, as he aktg tnrc eecement of the session, " the bane of agn , ear, hear. ll then, the Right Hon. G.en ?tt (La i t Lord ofthe Treasury had said the other night k u t in gti ° tid e ': J . . Russell) seemed to oscillate between li g ' si gh pr eg , CI the House and that, although he Wen. N th ettc rt to be bane of agriculture ! t ' is Y tha t t t e lt ?se words might sound very well yet he did te " t Olae I ;''°ry into effect. Now, with regard , to . tha . t . of eroteht be entirely mistaken in that view, if i g s t l i t e,th, t "Pi away with protection were presented to Istitka that doing away with it suddenly and abrup' s lY ; kt, , Of removing it cautiously and graduaily— Itt er NI On thi s "'owing the great authorities who had written IN, subject, he should prefer the latter to the t 4 he ,„,( Rear, hear.) But that was entirely as to the otel Ngh gi Ploy e d t t i t was not a question as to the policy te"ls t be adopted. There was no doubt ins -I,4st,ilr, hear, °t oe end at which they ought to aim. s g t erell th, ) When he said that protection was a 0,40,4144 e, :111erects protected, but more especially a boos' a t t , ts t t l i pol y. 'hod that they ought to .10 away with restriction „"ili o . l •/I .e . was, in fact, follewing the words and senti- VMr. fal car do• But at the same time, in the very page lle,eti„'lhtlegtecar,;lo maintained that doctrine , he inserted the 101;te gg is i Al w rit ' e 'l, as a aarning—though he was more of a As„hig ° tlntie rg ,l t h ao a practical statesman—as a warninto nigh ^ e this task, as to the eircurn-pection with ith 6 to be carried into effect.—( Hear, hear.) t tli qt he Nod 41%, still to the general theory of this subject, he t te r lfe seel i t ,. so make a quotation from another author, 4 i "th h:oet i h tn g, and vshese name he would mention to the ot g4 ti er th : had read the passage. The words were so 11 1 t Ild f vt lt so ~,,e a nY he could use, the whole theory of corn ett g. Jai stated in it that , he trusted the House .its eer "'ha for reading " The only beneficial care g, l ll l l lt t' l l a o tie g ° 4 rc o e i nt can take of commerce is, to afford it pro '. a-de eed . War, and to remove by treaties the restric s 0 14 c. k t istai .. it b neey foreien Governments in time of peace, 4 '41.1e Placing on it, however plau , s , ibl . e , they k , Of -suctions of their own creating. l'he ti t l ih , 4 1 4 it Btate consisted in the prosperity of the .4et:41,,,ai tcho,ntortahreyrsto; so th u , t . id b, p dy ilicy to defend one class mode of ascertaining .) s uo !l' of each was to let them all alone." — et b„ " was the opinion given many years ago, in a Nip Ar. A l l, d cheers exander Baring, the present Lord st sits 0pt 4 1...5"' and gh e ,7 - it was marked by the sagacity, the tOlo st cHsa s.s criti!nguished talent that Noble Lord pose '4lt, th a tth sela,t then was his (Lord J. R idussell's ot )- cowmeree in general and he d n Yre ' t he to Y should gain anything' by doing what many farmers wished them to do—repealing the Canada Corn Act—putting a higher duty on the admission of foreign cattle, or in any way going back to that system of high protec tion which the present Government declared it did not wish to restere.—( Hear, hear.) Put there was ore thing they could (lo for the farmers—there was one thing they were bound to do for them—and that was, not to hold out. these delusive hopes to them.—( Cheers.) They had seen the farinera meeting this year in various places, they had read the reparts of those meetings, containing complaints of their present state, and requests for further protection. He thought the House ought to tell the farmers, if it did give them this farther protection, it would only be affording them a " delusion and a snare"—( Cheers)—that their best reliance would be on their own industry and skill, and that the future course of Parliament would be to diminish and finally take away the present amount of protection, not to create new ones.—( Hear, hear.) But such w:s not the language held, such was not the course now pursued. The Hon. Gentleman who had spoken from that corner of the House, had stated how much they regretted having voted for the corn•law of That law was one which the Hon. Gentlemen themselves es tablished. He knew that kie (Lord John Russell), and many others on his side of the House, voted against the second read ing of that Bill, but it was carried by a great majority, con sisting chiefly of the representatives of agricultural counties.— ( Hear.) Then those Hon. Gentlemen say they would not have voted for it, if they had known of the tariff or the Canada Corn Bill. With regard to the tariff he could not think that anything which had happened, or anything that was likely to happen, couldbe at all injurious to good graziers, if they had also a great importation of foreign grain, and could command the right means of competing in the markets of the country with any growers of foreign cattle whatever. With regard to the Canada Corn Bill, to that he also objected, but on very different grounds. He considered it to be the establishment of a corn law in Canada, an exten:ion of a kind of protection to the agricultural interest of Canada, whirl 'it might be hereafter very troublesome to alter. The Hon. Member for Taunton ( Mr. Labouchere) founding his objections to the Bill on these . _ . , views, brought forward a mootion'which would entirely have stopped the progress of the Bill. Was his Hon. Friend sup ported by the agricultural interest in that House? By no means. —( Hear, hear. ) The Hon. Gentlemen opposite gave such support to the Government that it was enabled to carry the Bill.—( Hear, hear.) When they went farther -than the second reading, he (Lord J. Russell) was not prepared to carry on that opposition. But it was evidently within the power of these who represented the agricultural interest to have put a total stop to the Bill, and for any impor tation that had taken place under it, let them net throw all the blame on the Government. They had themselves assisted the Government, and they were assisted every day—( Hear, hear) —in carrying oat this same policy of giving greater freedom to trade acid taking away restrictions. They should tell the farmer, then, it was a good and sound policy they were pur suing, and that they intended to stand by it fairly and honestly; then they would not be in that House, following in the wake of the Minister, and then going down to the agri cultural meetings to attack him fur his free-trade principles.— Such was his opinion of the general conduct they ought to pursue ; but he would now proceed to the particultr motion before the House That motion declared that in any remission of duties, the agricultural interest ought to be consulted. He thought the Right Hon. Secretary of State had answered the latter part of the speech of the lion. Member for Somerset, with re,sard to the particulars he bad stated. Take as an in stance, the poor-rates, and the tithe commutation. The poor rates were one million less at present than they were before the new poor-law passed; and with respect to tithes, the agricul turists stood in a much better position now, than formerly, in asmuch as the) could improve their cultivation and increase their produce without paying a single sixpence more to the tithe-owner. The agriculturists had been great gainers by the difference in their position from what it was some years ago.—( Hear. ) He should not enter into the question of the expense of prosecutions ; if they esta blished a different system altogether, and if the Secretary of State should ever choose to appoint a public prosecutor, then different arrangements might be made with respect to the expense of prosecutions ; but at present the subject was quite beside the question before them. His answer to the Hon. Gentleman, when he asked for consideration for the agricultural interest in these remissions of duties was this-- that the agriculturists ought to place themselves on en equality with the rest of the community, and say there should be no mote duties ors the produce of agriculture than on any other raw material of commerce. The food of the people was in fact the raw material on which the greater part of the people were maintained. Let them come forward, and say, on 'his raw material, the least possible amount of duty should be levied, and then, when they were on the same tooting as the rest of the community, when they were no lo°-ger reckoned among the favoured interest, they might ask to have their peculiar burdens considered, and if they were proved to have injurious consequences on agriculture, and to prevent the employment of the number of labourers who would otherwise be employed, anything that could in justice and equity be demanded, would be conceded by the greatest free trader and most determined abolitionist of the corn-laws who sat on that side of the House, as readily as by Hon. Gentle men who held property in land. But they could not expect this view of their case to be taken while the odious impression caused by the corn-laws hung over the country. The majority of the House of Com mons, and the whole of the House of Peers, was composed of persons connected with land; and the protection given to that interest was believed by the people to be at the expense of the rest of the community. What an injurious position this placed the landed interest in vsi,h the country. The Hon. Gentle man who brought forward the present motion alleged there had been a decline in the price of meat of 6d. or 7d. per stone, and he complained that it had become cheaper since the tariff of 1842. He complained also that corn had fallen in price, and he asserted that these were evils which required interposition. After all, when they followed this out, it amounted to this. The Hon. Gentleman complained, and alleged it as a grievance, that a poor man, in purchasing 2 lbs. of meat for the Sunday dinner of himself and wife and family, could save about '2d. in the price of it.—( Hear, hear.) If he bought bread, he might also save 4d. or sd. in the bread of his family for the week. Let them consider how injurious it was to them to come for ward with these facts, and allege them as an evil and a grievance. If they had everything reduced to a fair state, if they could say they had no special protection, and that in conse quence of the flourishing state of the manufactures theist was a greater demand for agricultural produce, causing an in creased }once, then they might fairly rejoice in the fact of that increase of price. But when they said their law was not suf ficiently stringent, that it did not prevent the people from pay ing 6d. less for bread or meat than they might be made to pay by the law—this was a complaint that must tend to place the landed interest, and the great landed aristocracy of the country in an odious position.—( Cheers.) He, as much as any man, had a right to respect that landed interest.—( Hear, hear, from Colonel Sibthorpe. ) The cheer of the Hon. and Gallant Member induced him to make an allusion which otherwise he should not have done. He had been connected with persons who took a great interest in the progress of agriculture ; his uncle and father had done as much as any men towards the progress of agriculture ; they had done all they could to bring the farmers of the country together and make them conversant ith improvements.—( Cheers.) He was, therefore, the last m to wish for any unnatural or unfair depression of the agricultural interest. But if they really wished to promote the good of agriculture, if they wished the landed interest to hold that high title to the respect and rank they had won for themselves in former days, and ought to preserve in the pre sent, they ought not to agree to motions like this ; but they should seek to establish some fair and equal arrangement be tween all parties, and to let all Englishmen see that if the landed interest was the most powerful, it was also the most generous, portion of the community. Mr. B. ESCO FT rose amidst loud cries of " Order," and " Mr. D'lsraeli," who had stood up at the same moment, but gave way to the former Hon. Member, who commenced by saying that having already given way to one Hon. Member that evening, he hoped he would now he heard, particularly as he intended to vote against the motion of the Hon. Member op posite, although he happened to be one of his constituents who would give him his most decided opposition on this question.— ( Hear and a laugh.) The Noble Lord the Member for London had gone rather minutely into the details of this question, and into the many grievances which it was contended pressed upon agriculture; but surely they were not now discussing that question—they were not now debating the nature and the working of the corn-laws—( Hear)—and therefore he re gretted that the Hon. Member had deemed it right to bring forward his motion, thereby interrupting, for so small an object as it professed to attain, the very important business of the country now under dis.cu4sion.—t Hear.) How ever, he thanked the Noble Lord the Member for London for having entered at such length upon this question, for it was the very same as one which he intended to have brought forward last session.—( Hear, hear.) But now he would ask what was it that they proposed as a mode of relief? Ic was this, that the county rates should be re moved. But who was it that imposed these county rates ? Were they net the Hon. Member for Somersetshire, and others whom he now saw around him.—( Hear, hear.) And was it not the same who had the power to remove them?—( Hear.) It had been said that this question had now merged into a con test between two great bodies in this country, namely, the Anti-Corn-law League and the Protection Society. Now, although there had been occasional skirmishes between both these parties, he had never said a word against either, and never would, so long as he did not feel himself compelled to join either —( Hear, and a laugh)—but with the exception of those skirmi<hes, he did believe that the Anti-Corn-law League would affect trade as little as would the Protection Society agricultural distress.—( Laughter. ) Now, he would ask, was net the real cause of the dissatisfaction of the farmers of this country the conduct of their representatives in that House—( Hear, hear)—and if lie concurred in this feeling amongst the farmers he had his reasons for it.—(Hear, hear.) Let it not be forgotten, that hitherto there had been two kinds of meetings held at fixed and regular periods in the country, at which the farmers had been in the habit of looking forward for the expression of the opinions of those whom they looked upon as their leaders, and being guided by their statements on subjects connected with agriculture—those meetings were the agricultural meetings and dinners.—( Hear, hear.) Those assemblies were generally held during the Par liamentary recess ; and it was the habit of all classes who lived by the cultivation of the land, to discuss at these meetings va rious measures affecting their collective or individual rights. He remembered that when first those assemblies used to take place subjects of a political tendency were sometimes discussed at them ; and in order to prevent the danger likely to follow from such discussions, rules were then framed by which all topics of a political or publin nature were prohibited being in troduced. In the autumn of last year he attended one or two of these assemblies. and he there found that the effect of this rule was, that the leaders of the agricultural party adopted this cause. There were usually sonic Members of Parliament present, and they, having no doubt these same political questions uppermost in their minds, could not well suppress them altogether, so they just said as much about them as to convince the far mers they knew nothing whatever on the subject.—( Laughter. ) And then they spoke to the farmers on agricultural subjects in such a strain as convinced these same farmers that those Hnn. alembe-s knew nothing whatever on that subject.—( Great laughter.) Allusion had been made to the debate which took place last week, and touch had been said about the prin ciple and the intent of this question; but he begged to say this, and he would let the farmers know it, that neither the principle nor the intent of the question could have such at taeks made against them as those made by Hon. Members who thought they were supporting both.—( Hear, and laughter. ) One Hon. Member made a speech in that House complaining of the agricultural distress, and supported protection elsewhere. —( A laugh.) Another wrote pamphlets and bills, and dis tributed them through the country, declaring that protection was the cause of the distress, while in that House he supported protection.—( Laughter.) Now, he eonceived that if those Honourable Members were right, they would be the means of compelling others to petition for the total repeal of this protection.—(Hear, hear.) Yet, in the face of all this, ghat slid the agricultural Members in that House do? Why, they supported protection—the House stuck to the corn-laws and tariff, though these were ' the very things that it was said created all the distress.— ( Hear, hear.) Now he (Mr. E.) had spent some time among 4 the farmers, and he thought he knew something about them, and he could assure Hon. Members that there was nothing they liked so much as plain dealing ; and he would like • to know what sort of answer would they receive from Hon. Members whom they had sent to represent them, and who had voted in favour of protection from both sides of the House. —( Hear, hear. ) Hon. Members would find this to be the fact, that the farmers and the labourers too had much deeper intellectual powers on this question, and many others, than those who conceived themselves their superiors gave them credit for—(Hear, hear)—and the labourers knew well that TUESUN,LONDON,- TU I ESDA Y MORNING, MARCH (Hear, hear.) On the meeting of Parliament the Right Hon. Gentleman reconstructed his Cabinet, and left out the Minister of Trade.—( Hear, hear.) There was a great complaint to the farmers of this country !—( Laughter, and Hear, hear. ) The agricultural Aleinbers went to the Right Hon. Baronet complaining of the coming tariff--murmuring against the Canada Corn Bill, hut now they must be perfectly reconciled. Now the agriculturist must feel perfectly secure.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) 'Well, now it was a decided demonstra tion.—( Great laughter. ) But it would not do well to com pare the conduct, of the Right lion. Baronet when in op position and when in power. It was the old story—they must not contrast too much the hour of courtship with the moment of possession.—( Great cheering and laughter from both sides of the House. ) There was a strangeness iw the conduct of the Right Hon. Gentleman. The Right lion. Gentleman's protection speech was the best which could be heard any where. It was a great thing to see the Right Hon. Baronet rise, and hear him talk about the leaders of the gentlemen of England being in possession of the confidence of the Sovereign.— ( Great laughter and cheers.) They did not now hear much of the " Gentlemen of England."—( Hear, hear, renesed cheering and laughter. ) What of that ? they had the pleasures of memory—(Hear, hear, and great laughter)—the charms of reminiscence---they -were his first love, and though ' he may not kneel to them now, as in the hour of passion, still they would recal the past, and nothing in his mind was more unwise and unseemly .han a tone of recrimination and reproach.—( Great laughter and cheering.) What was the use of it ? In all cases, he believed, when the object had ceased to charm, it was in vain to appeal to the feeliugs.— (Loud and prolonged cheering.) The Right Hon. Baronet, like any gallant, endeavoured to sooth, and pacify, and keep things quiet, but it was useless. The Right Honourab'e Baronet maintained a tone of haughty silence and frigidity towards the advances of the county Members, and if they knew anything of human nature, they would take the hint, but they went on—he advised them to lialt,.hut they would still go on.— ( Laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman would not say one word the more for it, but he did say lie would have no whin ing there.—(lmmense laughter and cheers.) Now, if that were not the case of the great agricultural interest, why should it be treated differently from any other beauty, although she was a deluded one.—(Great laughter and cheers.) They had been convinced at the catastrophe. Prreection was now in the same condition as Protestantism in 182:1.—( Hear, hear, and great laughter.) For his part, if they were to have free trade, he would sooner, with Honourable Gentle men opposite, support that question, when emanating from the honesty and genius sf the Honourable Member for Stockport, then when proposed by any one, however sersed and skilful in Parliamentary manoeuvring, who had tampered with the generous confidence of a great people and a great party.—( Hear, hear, and great cheering.) For him self he could not say what might be the result. ( The lion. Gentleman concluded with these words)—Dissolve the Parlia liament if you like, and appeal to the people, who, I believe, mistrust you. For me, at least, I take this opportunity of ex pressing my opinion thus publicly, that I believe a Conserva tive Government is an organised hyprocrisy.—(Loud and pro longed cheers, which lasted for several mi nu t es .) Mr. DARBY said that he did not think the Government would feel that this attack was of such severe consequence as the Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down seemed to think. The Honourable Gentleman seemed conceive that the Government which he had formerly supported but which he now opposed, were bound to carry out all the suppositions which he conceived to he necessary to the welfare of the particular interest which he espoused.--( Hear, and laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman seemed to have coalesced not only with the Whigs but with the Radicals themselves. The lion. Gentleman had accused his present opponents with having caught the Whigs bathing, and of having taken their clothes, but he (Mr. D'lsraeli) fancied that not only had the Right Hon. Baronet caught the Whigs bathing, but that he also desired to trade in their old clothes.---( Expressions of dissent.) Well, if he (Mr. Darby) were attacked, he felt that he had a right to defend himself. Toe Ho nourable Gentleman seemed to be an advocate for a free trade in corn. It was undoubtedly the case, that when the present Ministry c a me into office th ey found the agricultu ral interest in a difficult position. This was the effect of the cleverness of the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London in financial affairs. The Noble Lord had brought the country into this position, and the consequence had been that the Canadian Corn Bill had been passed. It was the Noble Lord who had brought the country to this pass, and it became the bounden duty of the Government to restore the protection which they had hitherto enjoyed to the agricultural class; and he must say, that those taunts of the Noble Lord were alike uncalled for and unnecessarv. When the Canadian Corn Bill was passed, there was undoubtedly a supposition that the pro tection that had hitherto been enjoyed should be preserved. That there was distress in the agricultural districts was un doubted, and he believed that, if the facts were made out, the only effectual remedy for the mischief would be an alteration of the corn-laws. But at the present moment, he must say, that if the country was labouring under distress, it was the bounden duty of that House to remove it. He had never entertained a doubt of the justice of the measure, and when the Hon. Gen tleman began to make these attacks, he (Mr. Darby) thought that he ought to have good grounds for making them.; and when he saw that the principle of free trade was to be advocated, he must say that he would rather see it promulgated by the Hon. Member for Stockport rather than by the Hon. Gentle man at the bead of her Majesty's Government.—( Hear, hear.) lie must candidly acknowlege that he was sent into that House with a view to support that protection which the agriculturists of this country had hitherto enjoyed, and he must say that, in the course which he had hitherto pursued, he had nothing to regret, and if the same circumstances were again to arise, he must say that he should act precisely in the same way again— (Divide, divide)—and if those measures were to obviate ti- a protection which the agriculturists desired, and which their interests needed, ho should feel obliged to vote with the Hon. Member for Somersetshire. The farmers had been called upon to reduce their expenditure, but he believed that this was an utter impossibility. —( Divide, divide.) Sir CHARLES BURRELL (who rose amidst much con fusion) said that he would not detain the House one moment He saw the state of excitement which the House evinced, and he only rose for the purpose of saying that the notice of the lion. Member for Somersetshire was good in itself, and well worthy of attention, and if it led to a modification which had of late been introduced, it would be advisable not only with regard to corn, but cattle.—(Divide, divide. ) Mr. G. SMYTHE said that he had listened with surprise if not with admiration, to the crushing reply made by the Hon. and Learned Member for East Sussex to the speech of his Hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury—the speech not de livered that night, but that delivered a fortnight ago. —( Hear, hear.) He was not unjustifiable, and he trusted that some Hon. Gentlemen at least might believe that he rose not without some cause to answer the speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for East Sussex, the invective, and the philippic which he had directed against his Hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury. It was far from his intention to interfere in the schism that appeared in the House that evening. It was far from his intention to address a speech to that House in the spirit of the Hon. Member for Sussex, and continued in the same spirit in the speech also of the Hon. Member for East Sussex ; but he would say this to the Hon. Members, that it was not by raking among preceding speeches—not by going back fifteen years, that he could entertain or form any opinion of his Hon. Friend._(" Hear," from Col. Peel.) The Hen. and Gallant Colonel, the Clerk to the Board of Ordnance, had done him the honour to cheer a speech of his. If the Hon. and Gal lant Colonel would call to his mind the vote he gave on the Irish Registration Bill, and supposing that question coming on again to-morrow, how would his vote then agree with that he had formerly given? Or, supposing that the Maynooth ques tion were discussed, how would the Hon. and Gallant Colonel vote on that question? He would tell the Hon. anti Learned Member for East Sussex, that this question, if it were not solved by the great minds that the Hon. Member for Wolver hampton made so happy an allusion to—if this question were not solved by them, he (Mr. Smythe) might be permitted to suggest to the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, that his great parochial mind—(Loud laughter)—would never solve the national difficulties.—( Continued laughter.) Differing, as he probably would, from his Hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury, on the vote he would come to that evening, he could not withhold his testimony that the effect of the speech of his lion. Friend would be more likely to be pro ductive of public good than the motion of the Hon. Member for East Sussex would be. His motion resulted in the bringing the state of the country before the House, but he (Mr. Smythe) thought it would be productive of more good to bring the state of the House before the country.—( Cheers. ) Mr. P. BORTHWICK rose amid a mingled shout of " Speak out," "Gu on," and "Divide, divide.") The Hon. Member made several attempts to be heard, but the cries and shouts from all parts of the House completely drowned every sentence. When the Hon. Member could be listened to, he said,—What was the question before the House ?—( Laughter, cheers, and cries of " Divide.") It was unseemly to see one section of the House rising against another section, but he protested against this question being brought before the House in such an unconnected manner.—( Laughter and cheers, which interrupted the Hon. Member, and after a futile effort to ad dress a few words to the House, he sat down. ) Sir ROBERT PEEL said he wished in a few sentences to state the grounds why he felt it to be his duty to offer his op position to the motion which had been made. He opposed the motion because the object of it was merely to transfer a certain sum from the county-rate to the consolidated fund. In his opinion they would be practising delusion upon the ter i e t st —co(uilldeari'n h a e n ar y )— m im a p te r t e i s a s l ing de t g h t e e m e with a agr b ie e u l l i t e u f ral tha in t upon their interests. His Hon, Friend stated that the total amount which he believed his motion would produce was about 260,000/., to be transferred from one fund to another. It was not an absolute remission of taxation falling upon agri culturists, but merely to transfer that amount from the county rate to the consolidated fund. Now, supposing in that way they gave absolute relief of 260,000/. to the agriculturists, they would have to bear it in another way. It would only be relieving them from one species of taxation to take up an .they. But his Honourable Friend forgot that he confined this relief to the agriculturists of Eng land. Why was it not to be extended to Scotland and Ireland ? Consequently the whole would be a charge of perhaps 300,000/. or 400,0001., which must be placed on the Consolidated Fund. Now he had a strong impression that if placed on the Consoli dated Fund the check on the expenditure would be much less efficient than it was at present. The Government, acting through its officers, probably newly appointed, who would have much smaller means of exercising their vigilance than the par ties who were appointed to superintend this charge. To ob tain, therefore, relief from England for 260,0001. of direct taxation in the county-rate there must be a transfer to the consolidated fund, probably of nearly 400,0001., with prospect of a continued increase, to be placed upon that fund. But who contributed to that fund ? The consolidated fund meant nothing more nor less than the taxation of the country, to and peasants. But did which the agricultural interest • was liable. His Hon. Friend f r a e i l t i l ef th t a o t the taxation lower talat ion o n a o ss w i o d f ac t e a d rm o e u rs the c,iunty rate wou ld b e not the lower class of farmers and peasants contribute by indi rect taxation to the consolidated fund? Consequently, it would be merely commutation of taxation, and his belief was that the agricultural interest which his Hon. Friend intended to benefit would derive no substantial benefit from that measure. His Hon. Friend, however, professed that to be his object. He ( Sir Robert Peel) rather thought that his lion. Friend would receive support from others who meant their acquiescence in this motion to be tantamount to a condemnation of the finan cial proposals made by her Majesty's Government. Because he found in a circular which had been issued from the Protec tion Agricultural Society, that gentlemen had been expressly invited to vote for this motion upon the ground that the re mission of taxation which they proposed was not favourable to the agricultural interest, and that the motion of his lion. Friend ought to be acquiesced is, for the express purpose of effec tually resisting the further progress in measures of free-trade If, therefore, that were the ground upon which his Hon. Friend brought forward his motion, or others were inclined to support it, still less was it in his power to acquiesce in the mo tion of his lion. Friend. He had had placed in his hand the following letter, addressed to a Member of that House, solicit ing his support to the motion of his Hon. Friend upon rather different grounds from that which lie stated it. This letter w ocPrtoytectotiona MemberSocie of Pa r li ament, an d was to this effect:—" I am directed to informtY, a dd resse d b y the secretary from a of the ilocal al ie s you that a communication from the Central Protection So ciety was laid before the Managing Committee yesterday, of which the following is a copy :—' It is the opinion of this Committee, that the remission of the several duties which Sir Robert Peel proposes to abolish in his remission of taxation, will tend materially to lessen the employment of agricultural labour, and reduce the price of many of the numerous pro ductions of the soil. The principle upon which agri cultural protection is based, is to maintain protection they and the farmers could only prosper by the general pros perity of the country.—( Hear.) It was a fact well known to many that the lab. , urers could reason fairly upon this topic, and they frequently displayed that acuteness of intellect deni-d to those who lead a file of luxurious ease and indolence. He would not have supported the preposition of her Majesty's Government, or oppose the motion of his Hon. Frienl, did he not believe from the bottom of his heart that the budget of 1842 and the budget of 1815 were the commencement of a great series of financial experiments—the commencement of a new system of taxation—the commencement of a new system of encouragement of trade, manufactures, com merce, and agriculture—in short, the commencement of a new system for the promotion of the reward of industry, which, when finally accomplished and carried out to the end, would be for the benefit of all classes of the people—would raise the value of property, would raise the value of labour, and tend to the maintenance of English peace and English liberty, and the maintenance of that constitution under which they had been born and bred. Lord WORSLEY did not think the Hon. Gentleman who had lust sat down had spoken the sentiments of the farmers. The farmers had petitioned in favour of the existing protection being continued, fearing that it might be attempted to reduce it. His Noble Friend who had seconded the motion, was the mover of the address in 1842, and at that time an expectation was held out to the farmers that the corn-laws would maintain wheat at a certain price. In that expectation they had been disappointed. It hod been said that the agricultural distress was not general, that it ?id not exist to a great extent in the north of England. This was true ; but the reason was, that the farmers of the north had a greater amount of capi al than those of the south. The distress had not sprung up this year, but had gradually been increasing for two or three years past, and now it was showing itself in such a fo-m as to compel the farmers to speak out. He had refused the other night to go into Committee on this subject, believing that it would delude the fat mer to do so; but he saw nothing in that resolution which had been proposed by the Hon. Member for Somersetshire, calculated to delude the farmer. If Hon. Gentlemen representing county con stituencies should refuse to vote for that motion, their constituencies would be grievously disappointed, for they would consider it tantamount to saying that their re presentatives did not believe that the agricultural dis tress justified the interference of the House of Commons. Mr. D'ISRAELI said that if he had succeeded in catching the Speaker's eye, when he in vain attempted to do so, as the Noble Lord the Member for London terminated his speech, he would have presumed to have offered some considerations to the House upon the great question respecting protection to native industry, which he would not presume to do at that hour of the night ; and, therefore, he was afraid he must restrict himself to the principle of discussion which had been 'bid down by his Hon. Friend the Member for Winchester, and confine himself strictly to the motion before the House. Other wise, he could assure the Noble Lord, that watching as they all must do with great interest, the formation of the character of an individual so eminent,who had been, as he informed them, thirty years in that House, but who did not appear to arrive at a result as to what was the interest of the country, that he (Mr. D'lsraeli) would not presume to place his opinion, founded on a much more recent experience of the House than his, yet, he would dare say, that after all, one truth was evident, per haps even for that discussion—namely, that protection wag not a principle hut an expedient. If an expedient, it must d. pend on circumstances; it could not be settled by these quotations of extra dogmas which had been stated by the Noble Lord.— ( Hear, hear.) He could not doubt that they should all of them have ample opportunity of discussing that great question which was now the question of the age and the country.—( Hear, hear.) They should all of them, either by their speeches or votes in that House, or on the hustings, sooneror later, come to a test upon the great question, not whether you will have protection, or free-trade, for that is not the alternative, but whether you will have free imports.— ( Hear, hear.) He was one of those who thought that there was much to be said on both sides, but he could not forget the speech of the Hon. Member for Stockport, which he was sure would not be easily forgotten—( Hear, hear)—and there fore, he would not say that much more was to be said on both sides. Yet he could say without great presumption, and with great respect, that much more might be said on one side than was yet offered to the House.—( Laughter and loud cheers. ) He might presume to enter into this question at that heur, if, indeed, he were in the position of some of those, who were at the head of affairs, and who might at such an hour rise, and with the certainty of being heard, enter into a field so vast.—( Hear, hear.) He could not forget that before they came to a settlement of this great question they must grapple with the great point—the war of hostile tariffs —( Hear, hear.) They must ascertain how far imports would affect the rate of wages—how far they would have an effect upon the rate of price—how far cause a disturb ance of the precious metals—how any disturbance of the pre cious metals might affect the possibility of their maintaining the standard.—( Hear.) He did not offer those considerations in a dogmatic tone to the House, but merely to show that be fore they came to a settlement of a question which must be set tled—( Hear, hear)—there were great numbers of considera tions which must be entered into in an unimpassioned and pro found manner.—( Hear.) Now he came to the question be fore the House—the question mentioned by the Hon. Member for Winchester, who opposed the motion with so much fervour. He would meet the Hon. and Learned Gentleman on the ground he had himself chosen. They had a motion upon this subject, the terms of which must be familiar to every gentle man present, namely to take into consideration, in arranging the surplus at the disposition of the Minister, the claims of agriculture. That was not a new motion—it had been brought before the House before. The motion had been in troduced before. It was introduced when the Gentlemen who now sit on this side of the House sat on the opposite side—under identical circumstances a similar motion was proposed. Well, what had taken place order circumstances which ought to be some guide to them as to the result of the present motion? That motion was not triumphant, although it was very nearly so, for it was supported by a powerful opposition, not undistinguished for its power of cohesion.—( Laughter.) In 1836 a powerful c Tposition wished to try a fall with not a feeble, but, at the same time, not a confident Government— ( Laughter)—and they selected this motion as the battle field on whiali the power of parties was to be tested. That motion was proposed by a Noble Friend of his, now a Member of the other House of Parliament, but who waa then Member for Buckinghamshire ; and though it was a discussion of not any great length, it was distinguished by an interesting and able speech from the Hon. Member for Dumfries. There was a division—a division which did not shake the Government to its eery re, but which at least made it tremble. —( Laughter. ) There was, in 1836, a majority of above thirty in favour of the administration on a vital question—a question of confidence. The motion was identical in its phraseology—so identical, that he should have thought the Hon. Member for Somerset, feeling that he had some necessity of having re course to successful tactics—(Laughter)—had referred to au. thority on this occasion, and determined to bring forward a mo tion which came recommended not only by numbers, hut by distinguished names.—( Hear, hear.) Looking to those lists embalmed in those records to which they tall repaired— ( Laughter)—he then read the names of those who voted with his Noble Friend, and judging from that, he thought that the Hon. Member for Somerset must have not only equal success but greater success on this occasion, for this was a Conservative House of Commons, and that was a Whig one.—(Loud cheers and laughter.) Now he would tell the Hon. Member for Somerset, on whom he might rely for support. There was the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland, who voted for an identical motion under similar circumstances.—( Hear, hear.) He knew that Right Hon. Gentleman too well to doubt that he would not vote the same way to-night.—( Hear, hear, and much laughter. ) There was then a surplus, and the agriculturaf interest came forward, and said, " Are we not to be considered ?" The Right Hon. Gentleman said they ought to be considered, and he was not surprised at it—( Hear, hear, and laughter)—for the Right lion. Gentleman was always a friend to agriculture. He remembered having had the honour of meeting the Right Hon. Gentleman in presence of his constituents, and he could not forget the occurrence, for the Noble Lord presided with whom he had voted in 1836.—( Hear, hear.) He remembered the speech the Right Hon. Gentleman made under those cir cnmstances. They were dreary moments —( Laughter )--for they were then in a position when there was no chance for power unless they were carried forward by the agricultural cry.—(Loud cheers.) He knew the constituency of Bucking ham, and he knew that they were so satisfied with their accomplished representative—(Laughter)—that if they were content with his sympathy in opposition, they would be sure that in the Government they would have a friend on whom they could rely.—( Laughter and cheers.) Could the electors of Buckingham for a moment suppose that the Right Hon. Gentleman, who in 1833 voted for a simple resolu tion, and later than 1836 voted for a motion similar to the present—that the Right Honourable Gentleman would vote against a motion similar to the one he supported in 1836? Of course they could not, and of course he would not ( Laughter and cheers.) The Noble person w ho presided over the dinner could not imagine any such thing, for when he found that the policy of the Cabinet was opposed to the prin. ciples which he held, he quitted it at once.—( Hear, hear, arid laughter.) They might therefore count upon the support of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland. He did not think they could despair of the Hon. President of the Board of Trade.—( Laughter, and cries of " hear, hear.") He supported a motion of the kind under similar circum stancea. —( Renewed cries of " Hear, hear," and laughter,) There was an odd rumour lately about certain opinions which the electors of Stamford held, and the mode in which they Rave vent to them.—( Great laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade was now Member for Stamford, and must, he had no doubt, in accordance with the views he entertained in 1836, consider that in a surplus budget agriculture had a right to be con sidered. —( Hear, hear, and renewed laughter.) He had no doubt, he repeated, but the Vice-President of the Board of Trade would vote now as he voted then.—( Loud cries of hear, hear," and great cheering from the Opposition.) He thought the Noble Lord was a Member of the Cabinet. He meant the Nlember for South Nottinghamshire. He would not forget the course he then took, and now vote as he had voted before.—( Cries of " Hear, hear," cheers, and laughter.) If he considered then the claims of the agricultural interest, as a member of the Government he would not fail to remember that interest.—( Hear, hear.) Might he go further ? He believed some of the Lords of the Treasury—( Hear, hear) —amongst others the Clerk of the Board of Ordnance (who took so much interest in agriculture that it prevented him from forgetting him) voted for the motion.—( Hear, hear.) So you see how many votes (said the Hon. Member, facetiously) my Hon. Friend the Member for Somersetshire can count upon, although he seemed to forget them when he made his speech. —( Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) No doubt all the constituencies from Buckingham and Chippenham would be doubly grateful for being so well misrepresented.—( Great laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposition. ) The Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government gave, on the occasion referred to, a contrary opinion.—( Hear, hear.) He would be 1 , 47 sorry to make a statement in any way erroneous, and, therefore, he would distinctly state that the Right Hon. Gentleman on that occasion acted in a different manner from most of those who sat on the same side of the House with him. No, the Right Hon. Gentleman did not vote for that motion—he went into the Whig-lobby alone— left his party, and voted against the motion. The Right Hon. Gentleman behaved throughout in tie most handsome manner. (Roars of laughter.) He expressed his annoyance, however, at the indiscreet conduct of his party against the Minister of the day.—( Hear, hear, and cheers from the Opposition.) He did not rise in his place and read them a lecture—( Hear, hear)—and he did not say, although they had gone into a different lobby from their leaders, " You are in opinion rebellious."—(Loud cries of " Hear," and great cheering from the Opposition.) The Right Ho nourable Gentleman having preserved his consistency still kept on the very best terms with his party.—( Great laughter.) That was the state of the case and the House must recollect it. —( Hear, hear.) He had no doubt that the Right Honourable Baronet, following the precedent he had then set, would give the same latitude to his supporters as he did then.—(lronical cries of " Hear, hear.") He might quote Hansard in support of what he had stated, but the facts must be fresh in the recol lection of every body. This was " sticking to the question," as his Hon. Friend said.—( Hear, hear, and great laughter.) Did his Hon. Friends around him view the conduct of the Right Hon. Gentleman in the same light as he did ? Well, if they did, and if their constituencies were satisfied, they should not grumble—their conduct was quite unjustifiable.—( Laughter and cries of " Hear.") The Right Hon. Baronet had done more for agriculture than any Minister of this country had dono for a quarter of a century before. That was his (Mr. D'lsraeles) solemn opinion, and though he sometimes came into momen tary collision with the Treasury bench, he felt bound to make this statement. lie was prepared to maintain that opinion..... 1845. THE LATE BOILER .EXPLOSION AT BLACKWALL. ADJOURNED INQUEST UPON TILE BODIES OF RICHARD GRIMES, G. CIIAPMAM, WRIGHT, AND M. SMITIL At ten yesterday morning Mr. Baker, the Coroner for East Middlesex, and the jury empaenelleil in this case, re awned the examination into the circuinstaucem of the acci dent, in the Town-hall, Poplar. As before, the attendance was very numerous. Mr. Ballantine again attended for Mr. Joseph Samuda, and the principal person implicated in the unfortunate occurrence, namely, the foreman Lowe, was able to be in attendance. The names of the jurymen having been called over, Mr. Ballantine begged to state, on the part of Mr. Samuda, that the person Lowe had borne a very first-rate character as a careful, attentive man, up to the time of this accident. Mr. Samuda also requested, as he himself had no evidence to give, and as his attendance was commanded at the House of Commons, to be allowed to depart. The CORONER thought that there could be no cbjection to the granting of his request. Several of the jurymen expressed their dissatisfaction that some of the workmen in Mr. Samuda's employment had re fused to give up articles, as the lever, &c., connected with the lamentable accident. Some of those persons who were present repudiated any intention of withholding any infor mation. Mr. Sanuala also stated that he had given positive orders that every assistance should be rendered to the jurors, and if any omission had occurred, he should at once order it to be rectified. The ConoNen thought such discussion was irregular, and the conversation dropped. The evidence taken on the previous occasions was then read over for the purpose of correction or addition; but ex cepting some verbal alterations nothing was added or amended. Mr. Lowe was .asked if he would question the witness Cockayne ; but first the piece of wood. supposed to be that so frequently alluded to in the course of the previous exami nations, was produced. The witness Cockavne said it was not the piece which had been used at the br . iiler. The wit ness Burnand said it was. Mr. Lowe denied that it was the piece, and the altercation was growing warns when the Co roner interrupted it, by continuing to read the evidence given by the second witness Burnand. The first witness was in consequence unquestioned. Mr. Lowe was asked if he would question this witness? The witness was examined as to previous quarrels between them, the object of the question being to show that the wit ness was prejudiced against the questioner. The scientific statement made by Mr. Farey, the eminent engineer of Guilford-street, was then read over, as was that made by Mr. Bell. At the conclusion of the reading Joseph Turner was called—nye in Bermondsey, and am a labourer. I have been in the employ of Mr. Samuda for a short time before the accident occurred by explosion. I was employed upon this boiler for about three weeks before. I do not know where it came from, or what was given for it. I should think it worth about 301. The plates of the boiler were such as were commonly used in works of that hind, and quite sufficient to resist ordinary pressure. The workmanship was very good. The rivets were strong, and they did not give way on time explosion. The plates themselves were torn and burst. In some places the thickest part of the iron had given way. I cannot form any sound opinion upon the c ause of 'the explosion. I was engaged part of the time in the counting of the two engines, and I think that the engine worked too slow, owing to the length of the pipe from the boiler to the cylinder. The length was some thirty or forty feet. The cold weather also condensed the water in the steam pipes. There was a cock about half-way between the engine and the boiler, to carry off the condensed water, but it did not do it effectually. I observed that when the cock was turned water flowed from it in small quantities, and that steam also escaped from it. An increased power of steam would not occasion under such circumstances an increased speed of the engine. I was near the boiler after breakfast on the morning of the acci dent, and I noticed nothing unusual. It appeared to be going on very well. I did see a piece of wood in an inclined direction against the boiler. I saw it there four or five minutes before the explosion. The piece of wood was in tended to keep the handle of the lever up, so as to prevent the escape of steam by the safey-valve. There was a nail in the piece of wood, and the handle of the lever pressed against it. Ido not know who placed it there, and I saw no one meddling with it at any time. By a juror—The nail was a small one, about five inches long. By the CoroNEß—lt was firmly driven in. I wen t w ith a can to the syphon, in order to get a little hot water to thaw the ice which was in the pipe attached to the boiler. Shortly after I left the explosion took place. The piece of wood was then in the position I have already described. As I was I leaving Mr. Lowe came towards the boiler, so that he could have seen the wood and the nail as well as me. I did not hear him say anything, nor observe him do anything to it. I saw no other person go near from the period of my leaving to the time of the explosion. I must have seen any one if they had. I know the witness Cockayse, and I did not see him near it. I did see Burnand there some time before. I made no observation to Mr. Lowe regarding the wood or the nail. I did not see Jonathan Smith (one of the deceased persons) near at hand. My opinion was that the piece of wood was in tended to push the safety-valve open, so as to blow the steam off. The CORONER—Why, you described the object of the stick very differently just now. Wo u ld it p reven t th e h an dl e going up or down? - Witness—lt wcuild prevent- its coining down. By the CORONER—I do not know whether the valve opened by the lever, being drawn up or down. I have not heard since how it wee. There was no room for play between the nail and the handle, as the one rested upon the other. The handle could not in consequence move downwards to admit of the escape of steam. By the CORONER-1 was at the time of the explosion about fifteen feet from the boiler, and in sight of it. I did not see the man thrown into the air. The first person I saw was Mr. Lowe lying near the boiler. He was injured, but I don't know where. Ile was lying in front of the boiler. I saw two of the deceased men,Thos. Wright and another, removed from under it quite dead. I saw also Grimes, who was blown to the other side of Bow-creek. When he was brought back he was not alive. Their death was caused by the explosion. The explosion was not so loud as powerful in its effects. I saw two pieces of the upper shelves of the boiler, one about 5001bs. weight, near the Crown public-house, about three hundred yards from the scene of the explosion ; the other 600 or 700 cwt. was found near the gate of the Plate-glass Works. That might be about 120 feet off. By a juror.—The pipe connecting the engine with the boiler was, for the greater part, covered in. The action of the at mosphere would cause condensation. The pipe was all perfect. By the CORONER—I was present at the testing of the boiler, after it was attached to the engine. I did not see it tested before. The steam had been brought up on Monday, but I cannot tell to what extent. I cannot say what weight was on the lever, or the extent of proving. Mr. Lowe, when lie came to the front of the boiler on the day of the accident, looked at the guage- glass, but I did not see him handle it. I noticed the water in the boiler myself, and it wail above the glass. If it is below the glass you cannot see it. There might be ten inches of water in the boiler. The CORONER—I do not think that, as the case stands, there was any deficiency of water. Mr. Farey's evidence seems to say that. Mr. Lowe had no question to ask the witness. John Barnes, of Wellington-street, Strand, was next called—l am a civil engineer and I have examined the boiler which had exploded. My attention was particularly directed as to the cause of the explosion. I examined in the first instance if the boiler had been over-heated, so that gas might be produced, but found that that hypothesis was ut terly untenable, inasmuch as the upper row of tubes being made of brass, were incapable of eliciting heat in sufficient quantity to decompose water, and they presented no signs whatever of gas having been formed. It was, therefore, evident that the boiler had been burst from an overcharge of steam. I conceive that every square inch of the boiler was subjected to a pressure of 1001bs. By the CORONER—I was previously acquainted with the same boiler on board the Waterman No. 11, and knew that it was made to sustain a pressure of 181 b. to the square inch, for which pressure it was sufficiently strong. The plates were 3-Sths of an inch, and the steam-chest was 5-16ths. They were of wrought-iron. I consider a pressure of 45Ibs. a very improper pressure, because as the general form of the boiler was cylindrical, which is the strongest form, and since the pressure is uniform throughout, and the resistance of the plates is also uniform, there is no weak point in a boiler of alcylindrical form, but in this case a considerable portion of the top of the boiler had been cut away from its original formation, to allow the addition of a steam box, whereby the pressure on that part had nothing whatever to resist it. You will see it (exhibiting the plan) here, and it must have been apparent to any one connected with the boiler. The fault might have been remedied by a stay across it of equal strength with the corresponding parts which had been cut away. This, however, had not been done, and from that defect the boiler would yield with less pressure than it would have otherwise stood. By the CORONEII—Mr. Lowe must have seen the weakness of the boiler. I examined the safety valve, and think in many respects the boiler was injudiciously constructed. The principal point I complain of is the complexity of the lever, which tended materially to increase the chances of acci dents. But more particularly I complain that the lever for lifting the valve is not constructed as is usual in London, as it allows the valvej being lifted, but is so constructed that no action of the lover can hold it down. The valve is self acting as far as the escape of steam is concerned, but no action upon it can keep it down. lam of opinion, how ever, that it' the valve had had fair play the accident would not have happened ; and I therefore think that it must have been fastened down. The efiect of the piece of wood with the nail in it would be to fasten down the valve. I can account for the partial blowing off of steam, by supposing that the valve was par tially open, but not so much so as to prevent explosion. I have made a calculation as to what the rate of rising must have been. From an examination of the tires, the capacity of the boiler, and the rate at which the steam would be gene rated, I find that if no escape whatever were allowed, the pressure of steam would increase about 1001bs. to the square inch in less than a minute. In a smaller temperature it would increase more slowly. The valves constructed by all the first-rate engine. makers are made so that the steam itself can open the valve, and no weight can be placed upon it by the engine-man, for to reach it he must first enter the boiler—a feat impossible, from the steam itself. I have heard one of the witnesses say that the valves on board some of the steam-boats may be loaded, but I hare never seen that on the Thames. Where possible, I consider it highly dangerous , to place anything on the lever, so as to stop it. I should consider it showed a great want of caution to do so, and that it would be likely to lead to an occurrence like the present. 1 Mr. Lowe—By the presumed usual strength of the two fires, steam to a presure of 100 lbs. would be generated upon every square inch. Mr. Lowe—The fires were nearly out, and if the last witness is called in lie will prove it. Mr. Barnes—Oh, then, in that case the steam would be less in the same proportion. Mr. Lowe—Considering the state of the tires at the time, what size of hole would be required to blow oft the whole steam generated? Mr. Barnes—lt is impossible to give any answer to the question. Mr. Lowe—What is the usual testing power above Is'lmat the boiler is made for? Mr. Barnes—l am not aware that in this country there is a precise usage, but in France it is three times a , much for every boiler approved by law. The CORONER said it was an important matter that the boiler should be proved without endangering the lives of human beings, and he thought that as they tested guns at Woolwich without danger, some mode of doing the same might be adopted with regard to steam-boilers. 111 r. Barnes—According to the weight stated to me, the weight unbalanced by any counterpoise would he 50 lbs. on the square inch—if it were balanced it would be diminished pro tanto. William Heath—l live in Bermondsey, and am a labourer. I was working at the boiler in Mr. Samuda's yard, before the explosion took plac e , w h en i t was fitted up. It was then open. Mr. Lowe was present and could see into it. lie superintended the work generally, and it was well riveted. and the work done complete. The man hole was not riveted. The CORONER—Do you mean to say that the man hole is not riveted. Mr. Lowe—lt is fastened outside with a bar. A juror —That part was quite perfect after the explosion. Witness—l did not see the boiler tested before it was fixed to the engine. I pat part of the pipes up and saw it tized - on Wednesday tuorning. Nothing struck me as peculiar at the time of fixing it. I saw the boiler about an hour beline the explosiou, and I did net see the piece of wood then. I s aw just before the explosion Mr. Lowe go and pull the lever down and let the steam escape. I looked round two tninutes afterwards and heard the explcaion I was in the new buildings near. I did not see the wood there. It might have been there, but I did nut see it. I cannot tell what caused the explosion. When I was in the new ware house I could see the handle of the lever. I saw the Mall Grimes on the top of the boiler, putting sacks over the steam pipes for the purpose of warming them. He was killeel by the accident. The jury, who had been allowed a quarter of an hour, having returned, Joseph Chettle—l am as engineer. I have been with Mr. Saniuda for about eight years, and have been at Blackwell from about a week after Christmas. I saw the firee lighted in the boiler on the morning of the accident. Ido not know where it w as purchased. Ihad seen it tested on the Mon day. While I was present I cannot say what pressure was on the boiler, but the guage•glass was broken, and then the steam was blown off. I did not go on Tuesday ; but on Wednesday I went again and the steam was got up, a new glass having been put up in the meantime. • I saw the weights attached to the lever, but I do not know to what extent. On that morning I saw the steam getting up. and Mr. Lowe was walking to and fro from the boiler to the eugine-room, in fact donlg nothing else than attending to it. I saw the steam blowing oil' stroo;e,ly about nine o'clock, and before the explosion it blew off very strongly. I saw Mr. Lowe once or twice put his hand on to the lever to bear it down, and so caused the steam to blow otl: BY a juror —The steam blew off when he put his hand to the lever, bat not so strongly. By the CouoNEr.—l left about three minutes before the ex plosion, and I saw no piece of wood then. By a juror—l cannot tell what pressure was on the boiler, but I heard the steam blow off strongly. I could judge ao from the noise it made. By the Conoxer.—l did not see the tires, or at Taut strength they were l:ept. By a juror—The man on the top of the boiler seemed to be wrapping something like sacking round the steam , box, to .keep in the heat, Ido not know the weights attached to the lever. The man could not throw any of the sacks upon the weights that were attached to the lever. By the CortoNen—That man was Richard Grimes, and he was killed. By a juror —The object of tying the sacks round the box and pipes was to prevent the steam from condensing, as the boiler was in the open air. By a juror —The engine -driver employed was a man named Whitcombe, who is in the hospital, and not yet fit to be removed. ' Peter Kryer-1 am an engine-keeper, and have been em ployed for two or three months by Mr. Solitude. I have been employed on this boiler to make it suitable for Mr. Samuda's purpose. I did no t see i t tested before it viits fixed, but I saw it tested on the morning of the accident. I fitted up the largest portion of the safety-valve, and it was perfectly well done. I did not see anything imperfect in it. ' By the foreman—l did not measure the diameter of it ; seldom do. Bv the CORONEft—I cannot say exactly what weights were used in this case. On the Wednesday morning 1 was not working at the boiler. I passed it in going into the 'shop after breakfast, but I observed nothing out of the way about . it. safety-valve handle was on the side o f t h e b o il er when I passed. It was on a rivet. I did not consider that safe without some one near it, and I pointed it out to Mr. Lowe, and asked him who had placed it there. He said he had so placed it. IN'hen so placed it would prevent the safety-valve from acting until the rod bent. By a juror —I thought that a person should be constantly near the boiler in that case to see how the steam went off.- By the Coru.ixEß—l left Mr. L owe w i t h i t. and I d i d not see more of it. I did not see a piece of wood. This might be three quarters of an hour before the explosion took place. I am certain I saw no piece of wood or boarding with a nail in it near the place. 1 was in the workshop when the explo • sion took place. Mr. Lowe said, "No harm, it's all right, I know about it," when I told hint of the handle of the lever on the rivet. I tried the steam before 1 went for him. By a juror—l did consider it dangerous, and therefore I went fur Mr. Lowe. The steam blew off freely when I tried it. By the CortoNEr.—l could see the s t eam bl ow i ng off from the window of the shop afterwards. There was a leak in the boiler when first tried, but it was of no consequence, and it was all right when I was fixing it to the engine. I did not see any weight added by Mr. Lowe. Joseph Reid, Oxford-place—l am a pattern-maker, and have been with Mr. Samuda for three or four years. I made the pattern for the safety-valve, and the diameter was 4!,i inches. The thickness of the valve was about 3-Bths ofs each side, or all round. The valve-box was between five and six inches in diameter. I make a weight to open the safety-valve. There was a round ball, six-and-a-half inches in diameter, weighing thirty-seven or thirty-eight lbs. It was wrought not cast. Mr. Lowe said "We will try weights in the meantime." There was a weight appended to the lever, but what it was I don't know. On the morning of the explosion I was in the office while the steam was blowing off. It was doing so freely. From 9 o'clock till the period of the explosion, a quarter to 10, it blew off by its own agency. The engine did not go well. Men were obliged to pull round the wheels. By the ConotsEß--I do not know that there was any inter ruption to the blowing off the steam up to the time of tho explosion. I did not examine particularly the position of the lever handle; but I saw Mr. Loive, before the time I speak - of. allow the steam to escape. I did not at any time see the handle resting upon the rivet. Mr. Lowe appeared very at.- tentive to the works in the course of the morning. I offered, no suggestion to him as to the working of the engine. By Mr. Lowe—The pattern of the valve-box was old, and had been used before, but the valve itself and the casting of the valve-box were new and according to orders. • By the ConoxErt—l saw a piece of wood near the boiler placed against the handle of the lever, but not below it. Wm. Bain, surgeon—l was called to see persona injured by the explosion of a boiler. They were all taken to the London • Hospital. Wright had receiv e d a severe fracture of the skull, extending from the one ear across the top of the head to the other. He also had received several bruises ma the body, especially on the right and lower side of the chest, which bad fractured the ribs. The right knee was also dislocated. These were the chief appearances. The brain was lacerated in several parts. I examined the state of the mouth and windpipe,.and found the membrane exhibit all the appearances usually produced by steam or hot water: These injuries_ were caused by the explosion, and had cause 4 death. The same causes—namely the explosion and the concussion—had occasioned the death of the other two per sons also. Tte witness ehettle was recalled, and stated- that of the persons lying under medical treatment in the hospital, Whit combs, the engine -driver, was the only one likely to know anything about it. Mr. Lowe said Whitcombe was standing inside him at the moment of the accident, and they were just speaking of stop ping the engine at the time of the accident. The CORONER said that he should not put Mr. Lowe in the witness-box, but if he chose to make a voluntary state ment, he might. It would be taken down. however, and might be used against him. Mr. Lowe said he had no objection to answer any far question. • After some farther desultory discussion as ti. whether• the inquest should be adjourned or no, Burnand was recalled, and said that the tires in the boiler were very low. He did not see them, but he believed they were very low. Mr. Lowe—l do not believe that there were two shovelfuls of fire on during the whole morning. I have called no wit nesses after heariag the statements mad. by Mr. Furey, by Mr. Belt, and by Mr. Barnes. Ile thought these gentlemen were mistaken in their conclusions. He himself had been an engineer for 25 years. Ile had never had an accident before, and he had never heard of a boiler bursting from a pressure of steam under similar circumstances. A juror said it was most important that Mr. Lowe should have Whitcombe's evidence, and he thought the inquest should be adjourned till that witness should be able to attend. After some farther observations it was determined to ad journ, and Thursday, at ten o'clock, CSI lixed for resuming the inquest. The foreman Lowe had his arm in a sling, and his face was slightly injured iu several places. His escape may certainly be considered miraculous, considering his position at the time of the accident. Lady Floyd arrived in - Londonon — Saturday after noon by the General Steam Navigation Company's, steam ship Sir Edward Banks, from Ostend. CENTRAL SAMBRE AND MEUSE RAILWAY.—•A general meeting of the Shareholders in this Company was held on Saturday, at the Kin g ' s H ea d Tavern, Poultry. Nathaniel Ogle, Esq., in the chair. The Chairman re marked that this Company had some time since proposed its scheme to the consideration of the Belgian Chambers; an other scheme had also been submitted to them about the same period.. A long time was consumed in the discussion of the merits of the rival lines, but within the last few days there was an announcement that a concession had been made to the Sambre and Meuse Company (the opposing line), under which circumstance the present meeting had been called. The concession to• the Sambre and Meuse Company had reference only to the branch lines, leaving the main trunk an open question. He (the chairman) had no doubt that the Central Company would eventually obtain permission to construct the main line. Acting under this conviction, they were determined to persevere. As, how• ever, some of the Shareholders might have an objection to be bound by the decision of the Directors, it was proposed to repay to those who might desire it the deposit on the share* without any deduction. The chairman, in concluding hie remarks, dwelt on the promising character of the line, the influential persons who had engaged in the speculation, and expressed a confident opinion as to the chances of ulti mate success. No resolutions, with the exception of that authorising the repayment of the deposit money, were sub mitted. A vote of thanks to the Director; for their exertions was unanimously passed. RAILWAY COLLISION.—Another collision of trains, rnn stati on by f or he took place on Friday on the unfortunate Brandling Junction Sunderlandßailwa Theand shieldstrain which was hic ta h overtaken t k ire en Ga teshead and London train near Brockly Whins. The shock was tre. mendous, and few of the passengers escaped without sustaiu. ing more or less injury, though fortunately no lives were lost, REDUCTION or SEGAR.—SiT R. Peel's new tariff relative to the reduction of the duty on sugar came into ope. ration yesterday. The effect of this alleratiea in this sweet and Indispensable article of domestic consumption has been, a reduction by the grocers in this town of about Id. per pow on most descriptions to their custorners.—Lerds Mercury. SIGHT AND HEARING TESTIM ONIALS. 39, ALEEMARLE-STREET, PICCADILLY. General Browne Clayton feels desirous to express the comfort and advantage be has derived at his advanced age of 70 years, end after two years' trial, from the use of Messrs. S. and B. Solomons newly invented Spectacles. Their valuable inventions fully merit the patronage they Lam • received. Address, Adling;ton-hall, Laseashire. Major-General Sir Howard Elphinstone begs to say that the Spectacles he has now had solve time in use, have fully redeemed the assurance of the Messrs. S. and B. Solutions as to their excellence, and having found so much comfort and advantage from their use, far prefer able to every other kind of glasses. 13, Norfolk-street, Park-lane.—The Hon. George Cavendish, to Messrs. S. and B. Solomons, 39, Albemarle -street, Piccadilly, op posite the York Hotel. Gentlemen, 1 approve very much of the Spectacles I purchased from you ; I have made use cf glasses for many years, and never met with any to inable me to ace equal to yours, and with less iscon venietue to my eyes. Yours obediently, G. Cave ndish Leixlip Castle, Ireland.—lmproved Achr f o t n h i e ati a e me T e k l i e a s c i of lenses, to surpass any, ever yet 111 ventd.—The s e copes, Opera Glasses, Microscopes, &c., c., o . Sound Magnifiers for deaf persons, give ins- Conductor, Messrs. S. and B. Solomons Invincible Operator Voice mob ate relief to old standing extreme eases of deal s Anrists, are not in any way connected with a person nesi —Caution. Messrs. S. and B. Solomons , Opticians df i):! same name in their immediate neighbourhood. Nor in any part of the country. To prevent mistakes, eautious anti observe—only to be had at 39, Albe marle-street, Piccadilly opposite the York Hotel. for British agriculture, not less than that which existed at its formation.' This Committee, therefore, rectern mends that provincial Protection Societies urge, by deputation or otherwise, their local representatives in Parliament to sup port Mr. Mi!es's motion, and use their best endeaveurs to re sist these free-trade measures." That appeal, therefore, was clearly made, not for the purpose of gaining a small remission of local taxation to the amount of 250,00(4. to the agricultural interest, but it was made expressly for the purpose of resisting the further pr ogress o f t h ose measures w hi s k i t was theinten tion of her Majesty's Government to introduce, and to imply censure a n d con d emnat i on on t h e i r financial policy. Whatever, therefore, was the ground for supporting this motion, it was clearly out of his power to acquiesce in it.---( Hear, hear.) The House consented, by a large majority, to the continuance of a tax of 5,200,000/. on the income and property of the coun try. The continuance of that tax would not have been con sented to by the House and the public, if it had not been accom poled by a declaration of Government in respect to its finan cial policy.—( Hear, hear.) He conceived, therefore, that if he were to acquiesce in this proposal—foreseeing that it would lead to an abandonment of the policy previously declared—he should be guilty of gross bad faith. —( Hear.) It was quite clear that if he abandoned 400,000/. of revenue, he could not follow out the principles which he laid down in proposing the income-tax without a deficit to that amount.—( Hear, hear.) 'the motion was, therefore, to be regarded as a vote of censure upon the financial policy of the Government.—( Hear, hear.) He would not say that he at all regretted the course of policy which the present Government had adopted. Let the House look to the condition of the country when he came into office.—( Hear. ) He well recollected the statements which were made as to the distressed condition of the manufacturers.—( Hear, hear.) lie well remembered the complaints as to the state of commerce ; and, above all, as to the condition of the labourers in the manu facturing districts.—( Hear.) He remembered hearine from the lion. Member for Sh e ffi e ld, t h at, i n that town,' there were 3,000 houses uninhabited. Ile well remembered the touching accounts which were given of the condition of the labouring classes, who were represented as struggling to main tain an unwholesome subsistence upon the flesh of animals dead from disease.—( Hear. Lear.) He remembered the statement from Paisley, that in that town, in 1841, twelve thousand per sons—and at one ti re seventeen thousand persons who rose in the morning without knowing how to obtain subsistence for the day, except from voluntary and casual charity.—.(Hear, hear.) In assuming office he did not think that he was put in to support the partial interest of any class--(Cheers)--but he considered that it was the duty of the Government to take a comprehensive view of the interest of all classes—(Cheers)— and he had now proved that it was the interest of all— and especially of the agricultural class—that manufactures and commerce should be re-animated and revived.—(Cheers. ) It was easy to talk of the effect which the importation of 300 r 400 swine might have upon the agriculturist. But let the House look to what had been the effect of the measures of the Government upon the condition of the manufacturers.—( Hear, hear.) They were how told that the improvement was only the effect of the season, or that the remission of five millions of taxes had had nothing to do with the revival of industry. But they would recollect when they were told that confidence in better seasons would be wholly useless—that there was no hope for the revival of manufactures and commerce—that all was delusion—if they did not take the food of other countries in exchange for the manufactures of this.—( Hear.) The improve ment, however, had taken place. He would now read some of the circulars which had been given out from the manufacturing dis tricts in the present year. ( The Right Hon. Baronet then read a circular dated January 1, 1845, from a manufacturing house in the north, setting forth the great improvement which had taken place in manufactures and commerce in consequence of the relief of the burthens of industry and the opening of new markets.) Such was the account at the commencement of the present year.—( Hear, hear.) Let them contrast that with the statements made as to the condition of commerce and agriculture in the year 1842.—( Hear, hear.) Now let them observe the bearing this had upon agriculture; and it was a remarkable circumstance as showing the increased prosperity of the country. In 1844 the quantity of wheat used in this country was 2,128,000 quarters, being no less than 247,000 quar ters more than in the preceding year, 1843, and the whole of that consumption was of wheat the produce of this country. The importation of Foreign wheat in the latter year was precisely the same as that of the preceding year ; in speaking, therefore, of the improved condition of the labourer, it must be remembered, that there was an increase in the consumption of wheat in one year, to the amount of 247,0 CD quarters so that it might be fairly said, that the measures of the present Go vernment had tended to increase manufactures and he had already given them conclusive proof that there had been a correspond. ing benefit to agriculture.—( Hear, hear.) He opposed this motion in 1845 upon precisely the same grounds as he did in 1836, he then thought it held out hopes of relief which could not be carried into effect. He, at that time, differed from those with whom he was acting, but he said then, as he said now, there was no tax mainly bearing on agriculture except the malt tax, that it was in their power to relieve, and he thought that all would agree with him that the taxes they proposed to remove were far the best. The question of agricultural pro tection would shortly be raised, and upon that occasion he should be prepared to say why the corn-laws should net be abo lished ; at the same time, he must say that he thought it was for the interests of the country that they should relax their re strictive laws with great caution. Ile said this for the advan tage of all classes of the community, he believed the system of prohibition and extreme protecti on 'to be wrong ; he did not support the protection of the West India interests in a commer cial point of view, but he lo:ked at the length it had existed, and the obligation they were under to maintain their colo nial empire, added to which he believed the sudden removal of protection was an injury—( Hear ) not only to the West Indies, but to trade in general. They had been taunted on one aide of the House with acting inju riously to the agricultural, and on the other side with being mere instruments of the agricultural party. In spite of all this he would say, that it was their intention to continue in the course they were pursuing, not yielding to one party or the other. They had attempted gradually to abolish prohibitory duties, and to relax extreme protection. The Hon. Gentle. man the Member for Shrewsbury had repeated an accusation that he had made on a former occasion. He should not enter into any personal controversy.—( Hear, hear.) But when he proposed the tariff in 1842, and when he was charged by Hon ourable Members for doing so, he found that an Hon ourable Member got up in his place, and asserted that the change had been made without due examination. He found the same Hon. Gentleman also stating, that the con duct pursued by the Right Hon Baronet was in exact har mony, in perfect consistency, with the principlesin reference to free trade laid down by Mr. Pitt ; and his reason for laying down thus much, was to refute the accusations which had been brought against the present Government, that in order to get into, and being in, to keep in office, they had changed their policy on this question. Those sentiments wore attributed to Mr. D'lsraeli.—(Cheers and laughter.) lie held in the same estimation the panegyric and the attack ; but he certainly had been surprised, remembering the defence of the Hon. Gentleman, that the accusation which he had made :that night should proceed from him.—( Cheers. ) Mr. BANKES said, as he understood that his Right Hon. Friend proposed to postpone the consideration of one remission of taxation until after Easter, he should delay until that period what he had to say in reference to the „agricultural interest. Captain HARRIS expressed his regret at the recriminatory character which the debate had assumed. The Right Hon. Baronet had, however, admitted that there were special burdens pressing upon agriculture, and he was now called upon to make a relaxation in its favour. He hoped that those who were connected in that interest would combine to secure the object. Mr. PLUMPTRE wished very briefly to state his reason for objecting to the motion of the Hon. Member for Somer.. setshire. He thought that neither the time nor manner were such as to call upon him for support ; and for that reason he must withheld his assent. The House then divided, when the numbers were— For the resolution . .. .. 75 Against Majority against the resolution —l36 CUSTOMS' DUTIES ACT. The House then went into Committee on the Customs' Duties Act. When the item of " Basket rods" had been read out as one of three on which the duties was prepared to be re mitted, Mr. M. MILNES said if the duty should be remitted on this article, great injury would be done to the growers of them in this country. Mr. FERRAND agreed with the Hon. Member. Sir R. PEEL could not see why exception should be taken to this more than to other articles of the same class which had just been read.—The subject then dropped. Upon the item of " Bones" being read, Capt. PECHELL expressed a hope that these foreign bones would not be allowed to be ground or crushed in workhouses , On the item of" furniture wood" being read, Mr. C. BULLER said there had been lately several new kinds of wood, for the manufacture of furniture, introduced into this country. These were not enumerated in the new tariff, and he wished to know whether they would be admitted under the general description. He referred in particular to Ceylon woods, and several which came from New Zealand. Sir GEO. CLERK was understood to say that these woods would not be excluded. Mr. LABOUCHERE said there were many woods grown in the colonies which might be used for furniture woods, which were now excluded by the duties imposed on them. Mr. HUME suggested that all woods used for furniture should be admitted. Sir GEO. CLERK said this would admit all kinds of wood without duty. Mr. HUTT said he would to-morrow deliver a list of New Zealand woes to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Mr. C. BULLER said this would be unjust to Ceylon. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was absolutely necessary to enumerate the furniture woods. Mr. HUME said they might enumerate the woods on which duty was to be paid, and admit all others free. Mr. HAWES wade a similar suggestion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if any new wood should be imported, it would be in the dis cretion of the Treasury to admit it free of duty. Mr. C. BULLER said it was proposed to admit olive woods free, but not big wood. After a few words, the items were agreed to. Up on certain articles relating to food being proposed, Mr. EWART said that he would postpone his motion rela tive to butter and cheese, to the duty on which he was de cidedly opposed, till the third resolution. Mr. MILES wished the House to defer the consideration of those articles which were calculated to trench on the protective interests of the British agriculturist. They might take the articles which were not so opposed on that night, and defer the others for discussion. One article he should object to would be grease and another oil when they came to them. Sir G. CLERK said that the grease and lard which would be so imported would be unfit for food and could not compete with the agricultural produce. Mr. BRIGHT said the lion. Member for Somersetshire had forgotten chalk.—( Great laughter.) Grease and butter were admitted, because they were unfit for food. It was rather a singular:circumstance that the articles to be imported free, should have the extraordinary quality of being unfit for food. He did not think that the House was called on to legis late for food to dogs, when human beings were held in such slight regard. Mr. MILES--If this proposition is agreed to, I shall move the adjournment of the House. Mr. B. ESCOT T.—lf the Hon. Member far Somerset shire wishes to bring agriculture into utter contempt,. this is the way to do it. Mr. MILES.---1 am not to be told how to do my duty. I am not to be deterred by the taunts and sneers of the Hon. Member. He might know my character well enough to know, that if lam determined on a thing I will do it. I have thrown out a proposition which shows my wish not to put any impediment in the way of the tariff. Sir R. PEEL was not prepared to press particular articles against the wishes of any Gentleman in that House. Mr. B. ESCOTT explained. Several items having been gone through, The House resumed, the Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Wednesday. The House then went into Committee of Supply, when save• ral estimates were agreed to. The CriAramax reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Wednesday. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a Quarter past Two o'clock. FAlR.—Great preparations are being made at Greenwich for the holiday folks daring the Easter notwithstanding the continual severity of the woather 18