The Sun. — London, England, 1851-04-11 00:00:00

THE SUN, tr aced directly or indirectly to encroachments by Earn- Deans on the laud, of the natives. Those encroach ments drove away the game of the hunter tribes, and , eurtailed th© pastures of the pastoral races. Thus de privets' of their means of subsistence, the native races Must either starve or encroach upon the lands of other tribes arid war wi t h t h em , or t h ey must ro b an d attac k their Europea n f oes . Th e t i m i d, the wea k , an d t h e gentle races lay down and died; the fire and energetic resisted. Among the savages few excelled the Kafirs nl.rigour, couraee and audacity ; and they had often declared that they preferred death by our swords and bullets to death by starvation. Now, we had extended ou r empire in South Africa, not slowly, not grad uelly, as our Population had increased, and the natives had de creased —Blain by and civilize our liquors, disease, lion but Sir Harry Smith had, within the last five Years, extended that empire by huge. gigantic, and extravagant strides. To explain Sir Harry Smith's t r oc A ti " edings h e must ask permission to describe, in a f ew ° r l , the f orm and character of our South African empire. South Africa was an elevated table Projected from the equator towards the southern pole in the R s h ape of a h uge promontory, bathed by the Atlantic, °M hertl, and Inuian Oceans; from the shores of those • oceans the land mounted up by flights of mountain steps to the table land of the interior. Between the mountains end the Southern and Indian Oceans there was a narrow they of f ert i le land. There, in former times, had dwelt ile r i tribe s of the H o tt entots . J us t two centur i es ago t h e ottentots had been assailed simultaneously by two moat formidable foes. From the north-east came the Kafirs, bl gro race, p ro b a b ly with a large mixture of Ara b !h acd Increasing numbers, or a want of pasture for teir cattle. or the attack of hostile and kindred tribes, r od compelled them to abandon th e ir homes under the oldsropi . cs, and, l i k e the Hun and Scandinavian swarms of to seek in the south new lands whereon to subsist. Co e of these swarms, called the Amakosaa, under their treat chief Togul, wrested from the Hottentots the terri k°„Y Wog between th e K e i an d Keiskamma rivers, now t •cwo by t h e name of British Kafraria. About the same Ime s ih the year 1650, the Dutch had landed at the wilotith.western extremity of Africa, where Cape Town 4 8 110ar situated. The Hottentots, assailed on the one aide ,bY the Dutch, and on the other side by the Kafirs, "-- 4 CI been exterminated or enslaved. Finally, Kafirs and t,Butele, a dvancing from opposite directions, had met in a n u e Province of Albany; then a petty warfare had en seeocia similar to the border warfare of England and a nd. The Kafir, like the Scot, had deemed it an honourable act to steal cattle from his foe, and the T t a l tcb, like the English, had not been slow to retaliate. be 7 Dutch Boers, encamped in military villages, had a t; n able not only to defend themselves, hut, as their tubers had increased, they had gradually pushed the tie efira back. I n 1806, we had taken final possess i on of With of Good H o p e , an d soon began to interfere ra.iltary the border system of the Dutch, and to establish 1 posts on the frontiers, with garrisions of regulartroops. The Imperial expenditure on account (f those Egon„ garrisons had attracted very manila penes to the frontier. The presence of t o Ts had encouraged, facilitated, and hastened the t.,tArnZchaneuednts of the Europeans on the lands of the on various pleas we had taken pos lession of their territory and had claimed rated, over their 'chiefs. ' The Kefirs had re malted, had Stolen the cattle of the colonists, and had —intaitted numerous depredations. The colonists had retaliated,ei i , the troops had been called out, and a Kafir b o ot With the termination of each war we had ot o h bd er to eve our territories, and thus had sowed the seeds of the sk'll But the lKafirs had acquired something of I of their opponents, and had learnt the use of w o "Peen weapons, and therefore every successive Kafir Di_ had become more formidable than the preceding one, eirre g more troops and costing a larger sum of money. s o ' 32 , us he had already said, our military force in utreth Africa amounted only to 2,000 men, and our mili 014:aPenditure to about 100,000/. In 1835 there was Lir war end our military expenditure for that year tr e aated to 240,0004 In 1846-7 there was another U n ur war, and th number of troops in South Africa 433 e 6 ,196 men © , and our military expenditure 685,0001 1 . With t the conclusi on o f t h at war, in 1847, Sir H. Smith, ahe sanction o f t h e C o l on i a l- o ffice, added to the e n Y of the C ape o f G oo d H ope, on i ts north-eastern i s , s the provinces of Victoria and Albert, contain about 3,600 square m il es . B eyon d t h ese pro to co s, still t o t h e north•east, Sir Harry Smith added e; our South Af r i can d om i n i ons , b ut not to the Pr n Y of the Cape of Good Hope, th e t err it ory Briti s h K afraria, in which the present war com menced, and which contained about 3,900 square miles. pNot content with these acquisitions, Sir H. Smith had en crossed the mountains which guarded the northern e Lt s na tier of the Cape of Good Hope, and took possession the whole tract of country between them and the Gran ge River—an area o f th e s i ze o f England, contain tog about 50,000 square miles of as barren a desert as no rthern on the f ace o f the earth. That desert had made our 'crlhern flank secure against the attacks of barbarians. Raey • ting uncovered that flank, Sir H. Smith, still travel i n orthwards, crossed the Orange Ri v e r i n pursu i t of alrebel Boer s . Th ese B oers h a d fl e d f rom Colonial ce oppression to Natal. There wo fi rst perm i tted era to establish a Government—then sent our troops to subdue them, and thus added to our dominions 10,000 ssaatiare miles, situated on an harbo ur l ess ocean, with Attars on one side, and the equally warlike Zoolahs oe the other side. In consequence of our having taken possession of that worthless territory, the Boers fled again and crossed the mountains to the plains of the interior. Sir Harry Smith pursued them, defeated them, and proclaimed the sove r,,,ellenty of Great B r i ta i n over a ll the plains between the mest Oran g e River and the Vaal or Yellow River, an iles f about 48,000 square miles, with a frontier of 600 T,, exposed to the incursions of Zoolahs and other oest of the same origin as the Kafirs. Again, some of *ce Boers fled northwards and crossed the Yellow River, 11 4 if wa persevered in our policy of p ursu i ng t h em we c old have to follow them to the mountains of the 0011 , and to add to our dominions all Africa south of the tropics. Thus Sir Harry Smith, with the sanction la the colonial -office, had, since 1847, added 105,000 e quate miles to our S aith African possessions, an area nearly equal t o t h at o f t h e U n i te d Ki ngdoms, and our 2 8 ",, a tb Afric an emp i re now covered the vast space of ,e' ooo squar e m il es, an area eared to the whole o f th e tstrian empire, including Lombardy and adding nth Pie d"( to it. H e ca l cu l ate d t h a t on t h e f ront i er Leat empire there was a line of 1,000 mil es °• to the att ac k s o f sava ,ges of the same blood as ed Kafiri, an d as fierce, warlike, and energetic. He d ef end not attempt to calculate what it would cost ns to od th at f rontier with regular troops in the same °f eso hr as w e h ad defended the north-eastern frontier w the es ha ape of Good Hope. To defend those 200 mile s i"" spent of l a t e y ears not l ess t h an 600, 000 1 . an eronY. To sh ow some of the consequences o f the en ofaea.elling policy of Sir Harry Smith and of the Colonial '14;1 " 0 would now refer to the blue 'book which had ' 'eodelivered to teem. e op n h ened it, and the first be tween he saw in it was ent i t l e d `• Boundary Disputes trib e en a Dutch Farmers and Tambookies," a Kafir la t h,. who had genera ll y b een on goo d terms w i th us. th e — aro Sir Harry Smith's arrival on the frontier, in ooicisanter of 1847, this land was situated without the Sir The Boers on the frontier memorialised sh ort. • Smith to an nex it to t h e co l ony and g i ve i t to Pl e a . Sir H. Smith granted the prayer of the memo ta,o A portio n o f t h e l and in question was forthwith the tired o u t f or some of the Boers, and it so happened h ad bee land so measured out belonged to a chiet who Sal t eostr Our ally i n th e l as t war . Thi s , sa id Si r A. tar et m, rende re d t h e governor pro di g i ously popu- Rh, the time. Th e T am b oo ki es, however, refused to a lo e uP the land. The Boers threatened to compel eel : 3 .1 11 M bitterly complained that they had been de stro„,"" 9' the fine words of the governor. Sir A. Stoken looft his letter of' Ist July last, addressed to the Co to 41:Seerttary,thscribed these proceedings as calculated a nd t the Boers and Tambookies at mutual slaughter, d eo 'a convert her Majesty's most devoted servants into ingla3eiftste rebels." Unfortunately his gloomy forebod io th; 4 ,1 come to pass. The next subject of importance le nd book was entitled " Excitement throughout Kafir- S oliti 7 the p rop h ec i es of a witch doctor. " Sir Harry bitch had assured L or d G rey t h at h e was pull i ng down lustb„ nr afr. Sir Harry Smith was no t so successfu l as tip o `igalti ght. L as t autumn the belief in witchcraft sprung Theto Kafirland in consequence of the want of rain. dueeciaufferings of the Kafirs became intense, and pro reosi, amongst th,rn feelings of desperation and ani ahe 'Y towards us; for before we came amongst them, o ,_arl there was a want of rain, the Kafirs used to lead Zelr cattle from the plains to the mountain sides, where i leter was generally to be found, or they used, by chang „?their pastures, to follow the rain, for frequently _cri there was a drought in one part of their territory tai Was falling in another. In consequence of our en aritusstuchrreents, the power ,, cf . the Kafirs to change their auff es was greatly diminished, and consequently their 117" i cgs from drought greatly increased. He be olli*l‘ed that in former times the K s firs had been per sh()4ed, at certain times, to pasture their cattle within CallPrevince of Victoria and Albert, which wise men 4titd Neutral Ground; but since Sir Hurry Smith id o u ed more provinces to the colony of the Cape of Good lle s , Pla "let permission had been refused. the Kafirs the i t n e. - hfe e e of more suffering, the feelings of a oti lrs us were (as the well-informed author of an inte ai th °g tale of the Kafir wars justly obse rved) the eam,, th e a u3 e of the G a el towards the Saxon, as d escr i bed in ee o iTso of Sir Walter Scott. The Kafir chi ef would tat, ehodeic Dhu:^ he se fertile pl a i ns , th a t softeu'd vale, Nene once the birthright of the Gael. Where dwells he now? • • Thieleat thou wo will not sally forth And f spoil the spoiler as we may, rom the robber rend his prey, Pchile of ten thousand herds there strays pu,t one along yon river's maze, ',`Po Gael of plains and river heir aloa,ootill with strong hand redeem his share."—(Cheeai) hit7thinere was a belief in Kefirland that witc'rees,.an . and cetro ebeol gscalled bewitching things, could cause injury be ings t t l a i n :.. and to cattle, end coeld prevent the falling Ptest,llB called witch also believed that there were certain Tel b ew c,. ll d . Witch doctors, who could discover witches kugh t 0 1 ,`"Ing things. The Kafirs attributed the epec, last year to witches, and a great witch doctor ' lt " in British Kafraria. He pretended, liko OF rr Y Sosith, to Sir 4 tra c k ' put down witchcraft; arid, as two ~etaio a never agree, Sir Harry ordered Colonel ate ), _u s oo o secure this Mehemet, as he termed .61 4k r n ch to transport hire to Robben Islend. Colonel l elee , however, told Sir Harry that the lee ore Would !vy; „a. endanger the tranquillity of the co iecrhke:Ly there had been nothing mischievous or t oth e ,,L? the conduct of the witch doctor. On let the • nand it was generally believed in the colony t r h e stin,:!tch doctor had attributed to the Europeans a :_ t 'g,s, of the Kafirs. Sir Harry Smith and `.'lleeeoo.u;Lueots_innon, on the contrary, attributed the ex ", over a n ha fi rland to the efforts of Sir Harry Smith steit etri u t. ore the authority of the native chiefs. That ut Produced much alarm among the frontier farmers, which was increased by finding their lisfir ser vants suddenly leave them. They aeean. therefore, to take precautions, which alarmed the Kafiri. In the midst of this alarm and excitement Sir H. Smith wrote to Lord Grey, on the 14th of October last, that thoegh " he ettsched no impertance to this excitement," he would proceed at once to the frontier, and on his arrival he would report without delay. On the 21st October he wrote that " his Lerdsbip need be under no apprehen sion of an outbreak," and that a meeting of Kafir chiefs had been summoned for the 26th October, when he (Sir Harry) would explain to them their true position. That meeting had very important consequences. The great Gaika Kafir chief Sandilli did not attend it, fearing lest he should be put in prison, for that once before when ho had attended a meeting he had been put into prison. Sir Harry immediately issued a pro clamation deposing Sandilli from the rank of chief. On the 31st of October. Sir Harry an nounced this event to Lord Grey, and assured the Noble Earl that Sandilli possessed " neither influence nor respect among his people." Never did Sir Harry Smith mske a more incoherent statement. The aqetntt to capture Sandilli had twice caused an outbreak of the Kafirs. They ruse one and all to defend him last winter, and there was not a man among them who would not elailly rush between a bullet and the person of S indilli. In the same dispatch Sir Harry stated, with reference to the deposition of Sandilli, that "a crisis had arrived which would test his system:" that "he had no appre hensien of the result;" that " every Kafir who possessed anything was a supporter of the present Government;" and that, " if the chiefs had endeavoured to excite the people, they had signally tailed." In the next dispatch, dated 6.,h Novemb r, he assured Lord Grey, that the crisis had passed most happily, and that therefore he should lesve the frontier and return to Cape Town. On his arrival there he wrote again to Lord Grey, on the 26th Nov., assuring the Noble Lord " that he had left British Kefraria in a state of perfect tranquillity—the Kafir people fully satisfied, and the chiefs expressing similar feelings." In the same dispatch he informed Lord Grey that he was going to organize in the colony of the Cape of Good Hope a rural police, analogous to the Kafir police, which had been so " remarkably efficient in British Kafraria." According to our last accounts, almost every one of the Kafir police had deserted to the enemy, with their horses, arms, and ammunition. Sir Harry Smith proceeded forthwith to order the governor of Natal to arm and lead into the field against the Amagaikas 3,000 warriors of the hostile population of the Amazoothahs. The perfect tranquillity which Sir Harry described in his dispatch lot the 26th November did not continue long. On the sth of December he wrote to Lord Grey that the quiet which he had such just grounds to anticipate was not realized. :Oa the 12th December he wrote again and assured Lord Grey that " he perceived little:or no difficulty in restoring tranqui lity." Lord Grey was delighted et receiving this dis patch, for in reply he wrote how " glad he was to learn that all immediate danger of an outbreak was at an end." Unhappy Lord Grey! This letter was witten on the sth March; the next day he received intelligence that the outbreak had commenced with fearful violence. It was evident, therefore, that the two persons who ought to have been pre-eminently well informed in these mat ters, were pre-eminently ignorant on them. The next and last dispatch to which he should refer displayed in the highest degree the blindness of Sir Harry Smith. It was dated the 20th December last, four days before the commencement of the war:—lt began with an account of a meeting of the Lambie tribes, who dwelt in the neighbourhood of King William's Town, with Sir H. Smith. He stated that "the conduct of the chiefs and the feelings of the assembled people were all that he could possibly desire. The chiefs expressed their deter mination to adhere faithfully to the present order of things and to obey her Majesty." According to the last accounts they had fought against our troops, and interrupted the communications with King William's Town. In the same dispatch Sir Harry stated that he " had received accounts of a very improved character as regards the conduct of the Tambookie chiefs;" and he looked for ward with every confidence to being able to restore ge neral harmony and tranquillity." These were the chiefs about whom Sir Andreas Stockenstroem had entertained such gloomy forebodings. According to the last ac counts they had, as he had already said, attacked our frontier, carried off a quantity of cattle, and committed a long list of murders. Next Sir Harry was sorry to " inform Lord Grey that the majority of the farmers on the frontier had abandoned their homes, and moved far into the interior. His advice and influence had been ex erted to induce them to remain," but " unfortunately they had disregarded his counsel." Most fortunate it was for them that they did disregard his compel; that his advice had no weight nor influence with them; that they did abandon their homes and move far into the in terior; for if they had believed in Sir Harry Smith most of them would have been slaughtered. In the same dispatch Sir Harry stated that '• he was happy to bring under Lord Grey's notice the good and loyal feelings which prevailed among the colonists." In the same dis patch Sir H. Smith stated " that they were tranquil, contented, and happy; that he anticipated that his system would be perpetuated," and he de clared that he " had every confidence in the prospect before him." Four days after this dispatch was written the Gaikas rose in arms— defeated Colonel Mackinnon—then surrounded Sir H. Smith in Fort Cox, and then repulsed Colonel Somer set, when he attempted to open communications with Sir Harry. Now, what had made the Gaikas rise in arms? He had said it already. It was the attempt to capture Sandilli. The Kafir war, which began in 1846, was re kindled in 1847 in consequence of a dispute between him and Sir Henry Pottinger. That dispute had arisen about 13 or 14 goats, which had strayed or had been stolen from the colony. Sir H. Pottinger bad ordered Sandilli to restore them, and to give up the thief. San dilli had restored 12 goats, but had declared he knew nothing about the remainder, nor about the thief, if there were one. Sir Henry Pottinger was not satisfied ; he sent a secret expedition to capture Sandilli. The Kafirs rose in his defence, and the expedition failed. Accord ing to Sir Harry Smith in this "bit of a brush with Sandilli," 56,0001. were spent on waggon hire alone. This fact would give the House some faint idea of the probable expense of a contest with Sandilli.—(Hear. hear.) Sir Harry Smith, soon after his arrival in the colony, assembled the Kafirs at King William's Town. At those meetings, which took place in December, 1847, and January, 1848, Sir Harry Smith pretended to de pose Sandilli from the rank of great chief, and to appoint himself the Inkoli Inkulu of the Kafirs. He did se with the strangest ceremonies. He described to Lord Grey his proceedings on one occasion in the following words: —"The Kafirs bring arranged in a circle, I rode into the midst of them, bearing in my right hand a sergeant's halberd, well sharpened, the emblem of war, in my left hand a magic wand, my baton of peace and authority, surmounted with a brass knob.—(A laugh.) I directed each chief to come forward and touch which ever he pleased, it was immaterial to me; they all touched the symbol of peace; then each chief kissed my foot—(Great laughter)—exclaiming, " Inkoli Inkulu." I then shook hands with each, never having done so before. Three cheers were given, and thus I commenced the foundation of the improvement of their social condi tion.—(Great laughter.) At another meeting ho made the Kafir chiefs swear " to obey his commands," " to disbelieve in witchcraft," " not to buy wire," and " every year to give a fat ox to her Majesty." He also harangued them in speeches full of bombast and rhodomontade, with a mixture of religion, or rather of blasphemy, be ginning with a curs© and ending with a prayer, much after the fashion of a mock oration of a trooper of Crom well. Thus, by alternately courting and threatening the Kafirs, by alternately: praising and reviling them, by playing all manner of fantastic and mountebank tricks, by aping the manners of the savage, Sir Harry thought to civilize Kafirs and to impose upon them;, but the Kafirs laughed at him, turned him into ridicule, and im posed upon him. At the great meeting of the 19th of December last, Sir Harry acted a somewhat similar farce. According to the reports of the colonial news papers he denounced Sandilli as a rebel and an outlaw, and offered a reward of 5001. for his capture. The Gaika chiefs remonstrated, and entreated him to show mercy to Sandilli. Sir Harry declared that he could not do so, for if he were to show mercy to Sandilli the great Queen of England would cut off his (Sir Harry's) head, and that he would not lose his head for such a rebel as Sandilli.—(Laughter.) The next day Sir Harry pro claimed a successor to Sandilli, and wrote to Lord Grey that he had every confidence in the prospect before us. Two days afterwards, in the postscript to the same dis patch, he assured Lord Grey that the best feeling per vaded the Kafirs, and that the Gaikas were much pleased with his conduct. Finally, on the 24th, finding that no Kafir would betray his chief, even for the enormous re ward of 5001., Sir Harry sent Colonel Mackinnon, with a force of 587 men, to capture Sandilli. That expedi tion failed, as a similar one had failed in 1847. Tho Gaikas rose in defence of their chief, they attacked our troops in a narrow defile, from which our troops were with difficulty extricated with serious loss. Then the Kafirs destroyed the military villages on the frontier, slaughtering the inhabitants; next, they surrounded Sir Harry Smith in Fort Cox, owing to which "accidental circumstance" (to use the strange language of the Hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary of State for the Colo nies), Sir Harry Smith was for several days pre vented from communicating„with the colony. Next, the Kafirs repulsed General Somerset in his attempt to open communications with Fort Cox. Finally, Sir Harry Smith escaped, and on the 31st of December reached King William's Town. Im mediately he issued a proclamation, calling upon the co lonists to rise en masse, destroy and exterminate the barbarous savages, and promising them unlimited license 1 1 to plunder. Now, the Tambookies had assailed us on the north—the Kafir police had deserted—the Rat River Hottentots had rebelled—the Boers were doggedly in active, and disaffection prevailed amongst the coloured chties on th e f rontier, who had been in the l ast war our allies.He was a f ra id , therefore, that a serious war had commenced, an d that it would be a costly one.—(Hear, hear.) He h a d seen in the colonial newspapers that an official noticG, had been issued. promising all able-bodied rn'ti who should enrol a bounty of 21:for six months' service, 61. a day pay, with rations for themselves and families,aT e 1 d no a u d d o doubt i t l h e. w a r t h m e a s i :l l h a e c t e r h:i:s 2 , t wr accoutrements, T a a l ; y d . clothing. alarmed, however, p i a s y ne f i o ti r ce t , h a is nd w t a h r o ; ug fo h r t what the country would have t l o t otio province o f the without doubt we should have to p uy f or i t, because for this war Sir H. Smith and Lord Gr e y were respons ib le; it had brokenolthinwtahseniroopwat part peculiarnr portion of colonyßri tish Kaffsria,w of the Cape of Good Hope. The last question was, what steps ought to be taken to relieve this country from any expense on account of future wars with the Kafirs. It was clear that first we must defeat the Kafirs and reduce them to subjection, end pay fur so doing; what should we then do? Adhere to the present system of defending the frontier by troops at the ex.. pense of this country ? In 1848 he had presumed to warn the House that under that system there would be a Kafir war every three or four years, with a large bill to pay for it; that there was only one way to save our LONDON, purses, and that was to give the inhabitants of the Cape of Good Hope free institutions—complete control over their oe n expenditure, and the management of their re lations with the frontier tribes—(Hear, hear)—that at the same time the colonists should be made to distinctly understand that they must defend themselves against the Kafirs, and pay for their own defence; and that, finally, our troops should be withdrawn from the fron tier, and only an Imperial garrison maintained in the naval station of Cape Town. If these measures were not adopted the House might feel certain thet on the average of years the people of the United Kingdom would have to pay from 600,000/. to 700,0001. a year for the Cape of Good Hope—a sum which considerably ex ceeded the exports of British produce and manufactures to that colony. The Cape of Good Hope was not worth that price.—(Hear, hear.) With free institutions the inhabitants of the Cape of Good Hope would be fully capable of defending themselves against savages. They had bid defiance to the might of Great Britain, and threatened by force of arms to resist any attempt to transport convicts to their shores. Let them display a similar energy and self-reliance in a war with Kafirs, and they would be more than a match for Sandilli and all his followers.—(Hear, hear.) He had concluded his observations with regard to the military expenditure of the United Kingdom ou account of those colonies which were neither military stations nor convict settlements. He had endeavoured to show that if those celonies were governed as they ought to be governed, no troops should be maintained in them at the expense of the United Kingdom, except for strictly Im perial purposes, and that it was neither just nor fair to call upon the inhabitants of the United Kingdom to de fray out of their taxes the expenses of the troops which were required for merely local purposes. He had also attempted to show, with regard to the Cape of Good Hope and New Zealand, that if free institutions, with self-government, were given to those colonies, a very considerable reduction "might ultimately be made in the military force maintained by the United Kingdom in those colonies, and that by that reduction a further saving might be made in the effective military expendi ture of the United Kingdom—to the amount of at least 550,0001. a year. Therefore the saving which he con sidered could be made in the effective military expendi ture of the colonies to which his resolutions applied would amount to at least 1,200,0001. a year. If to that sum were added a proportionate amount of the dead weight, then the ultimate saving in the military cost of those colonies would be at least 1,600,0001. a year.—(" Hear, hear" from Mr. Williams.) If his views on the subject of military stations were adopted and acted upon, the military force maintained in the colony at toe expense of the United Kingdom might be still further reduced. The principles which he had laid down with regard to military expenditure were equally applicable to civil expenditure. For 1846-7 the civil expenditure of Great Britain in the colonies had been returned at about 500,0001. Of this sum about 300,0001. was for the clothing, maintenance, superinten dence, and transport of convicts; 70,000/. was expended in the military stations. These two sums being re quired for Imperial purposes, had very properly come out of the Imperial purse. He thought that by adopt ing the principles which he had laid down the whole of that sum of 130,0001. might ultimately be saved, with the exception of the sum paid for the salaries of go vernors. For, in his opinion, if the governor of a colony were appointed by the Imperial Government, he should be considered as an Imperial officer, and be paid out of the Imperial treasury. In concluding his observa tions on our colonial expenditure he must remark that in every colony there were many persons who had a strong sinister interest in the amount of Imperial expen diture. These persons bad made, or expected to make, large gains, by contracts, jobs, and by the innumer able other modes of robbing the mother country. .They rejoiced in every increase of Imperial expenditure. To them a Kafir or a Maori war , or a rebellion, was a godsend. He had heard it, on good authority, that in the Canadian rebellion the enormous gains of these persons had been equal to the losses of the rest of the community, and that they had been heard to boast, " The good old times of that rebellion, and the speedy commencement of the next." Sir H. Smith had stated in one of his dispatches, that during t he last Kafir war many persons had amassed large sums of money, and that the consequences were a redundancy of money at the Cape of Good Hope, with general prosperity, and a had an h d e i ti t r heard wassim. arwithstetantdeemnecnytsto He over self evidentg that with an Imperial ex p enditure man y times r e speculation.a rd t o greater than the local revenue of a colony, there must be a fine harvest for the jobbing and peculating tribe, and that noxious date must flourish and multiply.— (Hear, hear.) To this class , and it was not an uninflu ential one in our modern colonies, any proposal for a re duction of Imperial expenditure wasin the highest de gree distasteful. Corrupted by that expenditure, they had not the feelings of self- reliance and self-respect, which, according to the just remark of Lord Grey, our old colonists displayed in their conflicts with the Indians, and even with the might of France. Many of these un worthy Anglo-Saxons would, in their hearts, prefer Colo nial-office despotism, with huge Imperial expenditure, to the freest institutions with imperial economy. We were to blame for this degeneracy, which every high-minded and every right-minded colonist deplored. We were to blame for having departed from our old colonial policy and demoralised our colonial children by our waste and extravagance. The sooner we returned to the old policy the better for them morally, for us pecuniarily; their characters would be elevated and ennobled by becoming self-reliant and obtaining self-government; and our money would be saved by bestowing upon them the freest institutions, and strictly enforcing the:maxian "No Imperial expenditure for local purposes." That maxim was the sum and substance of his firstresolution; those resolutions expressed his idea of the true colonial policy of Great Britain, which was self-government for these colonies, and no Imperial expenditure except for military stations; with that policy, the more of these co lonies we had, and the fewer military stations we had need of, the richer and more powerful the British em pire would be. He moved those resolutions in no hos tile spirit to the Government, but, on the contrary, to encourage them to pursue boldly and vigorously the po licy which they had commenced on the continent of Australia. He asked them to assent to this motion—he asked all Hon. Members to support it who wished to reduce the national expenditure; for if there were any portion of that expenditure in which a considerable re duction could be made without injury to the empire, that portion was our colonial expenditure; and that ex penditure could only be reduced by acting in conformity with the principles contained in the resolution which he now begged leave to move. (The Hon. Gentleman re sumed his seat amidst general cheering.) Mr. URQUHART, in seconding the motion, said, that if adopted it would not only effect the important objects which the lion. Baronet had in view, but would like wise open a door to an object to which he (Mr. Urqu hart) attached great importance—viz., the destruction of' the present power of departmental government. The Hon. Baronet had stated near the beginning of his speech that the strength of this country abroad depended upon the judicious selection of our military and naval estab lishments, and at the same time he had laid down cer tain wise and prudent maxims for the selection of those establishments. He (Mr. Urquhart) thought that Gib raltar afforded a remarkable instance of the injudicious ness of our whole colonial arrangements. During the 150 years for which that colony had been in our posses sion it had cost us scarcely less than 250,000/. a year, and, including the additional sums which we had spent upon fortifications and otherwise, he believed that the whole of our expenditure upon that colony alone would represent a capital sum of no less than 100,000,0001., which he maintained was entirely thrown away, for the colony neither furnished a place for the defence, repara tion, or provisioning of our fleet, nor the means of at tacking an enemy. Instead of its giving us a security over Spain, it rendered that nation the necessary and inevitable enemy of England, unless when it found itself obliged to fall back upon us in conse quence of a greater hostility elsewhere; and it no more commanded the Mediterranean because it was placed at its entrance than it commanded the Atlantic because it was placed on its side. To use the words of Napoleon, " Gibraltar opened nothing, and shut nothing; while it secured to France the undying hatrel of Spain against England."—(Hear, hear.) And yet upon this unimportant place we were squandering a sum equal to the eighth part of the national debt; in stead of placing it immediately in schedule A.—(Heat.) Gibraltar also afforded an apt illustration of the internal liberties of those colonies called military, the privilege of participating in the government of their own inter nal affairs being entirely denied to the colonists, on the plea that military colonies required to be treated like vessels, which were ruled entirely by the captain on the quarter-deck. The Hon. Member then proceeded to argue that Gibraltar, Malta, and the lonian Islands suf fered at once under the maleficent influence of the Fo reign and the Colonial Departments. The adoption of the present motion, therefore, by depriving those de partments of their control over the army would go far to neutralise their evil influence, With respect to the Colonial-office in particular, .he begged to say that if it did not soon resign itself to the task of correcting its own abuses, the unanimous voice of England would soon be raised to put it down; and he wondered that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, whose poli tical position had been acquired by the correction of abuses, had not ere now applied himself to the correc tion of that greatest of all abuses, the Colonial-office; for he felt assured of this, that if the good sense of the country did not put down the Colonial Department as at present constituted, the Colonial Department would put down the colonial empire of Great Britain. The SPEAKER having put the question, Mr. HAWES asked the indulgence of the House while he endeavoured to offer some reply to the able and eloquent speech of the Hon. Member for Southwark.' That Hon. Gentleman had made a speech showing his usual industry and great learning, and replete with de tails of great interest and importance. It was one that deserved the best attention of the House, and he had lis tened to it with deep interest. It was impossible for him altogether to dissent from many of the observations of the lion. Baronet in reference to our colonial empire. But on the other hand he was bound to say, looking at the speech as indicating the policy he would press us to adopt, that such a policy would be deeply injurious to this country, would injure its best interests, and impair one of the noblest empires that any power had ever pos sesaed. The Hon. Baronet had based nearly the whole of his arguments upon pecuniary considerations. Having ascertained what the convict stations and military sta tions were, which he altogether excluded from his ob servations now, the Hon. Gentleman advised the House deliberately neither more nor less than to abandon those colonies which wo now possessed, in which wn had any military establishments.—(Hear, hear.) Was the House prepared for such a step? Anti on what grounds did ho rest the policy which he recommended? He (Mr. Hawes) again mid he could not discover any beyond those of a pecuniary character. It might be that - we were too poor' to 'hold our own—that wo have fallen from our high estate; Nit FRIDAY EVENING he must say the voluntary abandonment of such an empire as this—consisting of such vast possessions— containing a friendly port in every quarter of the globe— that this was a sacrifice which no country had ever been known to make at any former period.—(hear, hear.) The Hon. Baronet had gone at considerable length into an estimate of our colonial expenditure. He (Mr. Hawes) did not think that the items were quite the same as those he had used on a former occasion. Per haps the Hon. Baronet had seen from further inquiry that the items of the expenditure which he formerly quoted required to be materially modified. It was almost icapossible to make a reply to details of this de scription, which required the greatest consideration, and the most careful examination, in order to arrive at any thing like an accurate estimate. lle thought that the Right Hon. Baronet had materially over-estimated our colonial expenditure. The Hon. Gentleman altogether excluded on ,the present occasion all military stations and convict stations, but he had not decided what the military stations of the empire were. For instance, the Cape hes did not include amongst the military stations, and he would find other cases in which it would be (pally difficult to distinguish the colony proper from a military station. The Mauritius was a case in point. It was a colony which, in point of posi tion, was of the highest military importance for the defence of our trade. And yet it was a colony which produced about 60.000 or 70.000 tons of sugar yearly to this country. He did not think it was an easy task to decide what were military stations and what were colonies proper. By a return ordered on the mo tion of the Hon. Member for Northampton. the House would find in detail the military expenditure of this country in reference to our colonies, giving the gross expenditure for five years. Now he found that the gross annual expenditure, according to that return, which, he admitted, might not include the whole expenditure — but a small addition might be made to it—by this return he found that the gross estimate of the colonial expen diture for alI our colonies was only 1,948,471/. yearly. —(Hear, hear.) They were, according to the position laid down by his Hon. Friend, entitled to deduct from the general sum the cost of their military stations, be cause his Hon. Friend did not propose to reduce the ex penditure at these stations.—(Hear.) Now, be did not mean to say that their establishments were what they ought to be; true, ho might assume that a military ex penditure was necessary for the maintenance of the em pire at large—and, even so assuming, yet declare that it was capable of reduction, and even of expressing the hope that it might be reduced.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) He did not mean to say that as far as these colonies were concerned they were incapable of having the military expenditure upon them reduced. The fact was otherwise—for a paper that bad been laid on the table of the House the previous day, showed that a reduction was contemplated.—(Hear, hear.) Taking the figures, however, as thay had been stated, these mili tary stations cost 552,000/.; their convict stations 71,0001.—making a total of 623,0001, which might be deducted from the 1,948,0001., and it was over the re maining balance that the Hon. Baronet would exercise control.—(Hear.), He wished now to call the attention of the House for a moment or two to those colonies which, not being military or convict stations, they were, according to the propositions of the Hon. Baronet, to abandon altogether, because, they were to remember, these were the words of the Hon. Baronet's resolutions:— " 1. That it is the opinion of this House that steps should be taken to relieve this country, as speedily as possible, from its present civil and military expenditure o❑ account of the colonies, with the exception of its ex penditure on account of military stations or convict set tlements. 2. That it is expedient, at the same time, to give to ' the inhabitants of the colonies which are neither mili tary stations nor convict settlements ample powers for their local self-government, and to free them from that Imperial interference with their affairs which is insepa rable from their present military occupation." It followed, from these propositions of the Hon. Baronet, that all their colonies, not being convict or military stations, and having a military force within their boun daries, were to be abandoned.—(Hear.) He thought that the speech of his Hon. Friend, so full as it was of details, served to show that he dwelt too much on those details as an economist, and that his doing so had pre vented his giving a due appreciation to that policy which it became a great monarchy to maintain and a great empire to pursue. The consequences of the policy of his Hon. Friend, he believed, would be found very fatal, and such as the people of this country would not approve of. The colonies would have to be abandoned—it would be declaring them independent of this country—it would lead to their separation from the mother country; there would be no longer any tie between the colonies and the mother country but their reciprocal interests, and it would be free for any other country to bid against England with the colony for that interest. The re sult, then, of the policy of the Hon. Baronet would be this—and in saying so, he did not at all exaggerate the consequences—it would be the abandonment of the far greater portion of their colonial empire.—(Hear.) Now he believed that neither their merchants nor their traders were prepared to take that step.—(Hear.) Why, it was but that very day that his Noble Friend had presented a petition from almost every merchant at the Cape, pray ing for the assistance of this country iu the war in which they were engaged. Let them but adopt the proposition of his Hon. Friend, and they must part with their West Indian colonies—Jamaica, Trinidad, Guiana Twist be alike lost to them, with Australia and New Zealand; they must float away on the world for any strange power that chose to take them; and he believed that it would not be lung, once they hurl b:en abandoned by this country, before they would fell under the dominion of sortie other power.—(llear.) His Hon. Friend had said that if they left to those colonies local sell-government—that if they freed them from Imperial control, the colonies would undertake their own dote nee, and to that defence they might be safely left. Ile (Mr. Hawes) dissented altogether from that proposition. He knew that his Hon. Friend connected together ns if they were inse parable from each other local self-government and the distribution of their military force; as if there were no self-government where there was military force, and that there was self-government where there was an ab sence of military force. Such was not the true state of things. In point of fact he could show that in a colony where there was the largest power of self-government there was a large military force, and he could point to another colony—a Crown colony—a colony governed, as it was said, by the Colonial-office, where there was a very small military force. Let them take, for instance. the case of Jamaica. There was the fullest power of self-government, and yet there were 1,400 of their mi. litary ; and, on the other hand, there was Trinidad that had not self-government with only 300 men. Let them run through their colonies, and they would find there was no connexion between local self government and the maintenance of a military.—(Hear, hear.) Take two colonies adjoining each other—Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. They had at Nova Scotia a military station, and New Brunswick was not so. Let them take the case of New Zealand and compare it with South Australia. New Zealand had from fifteen to sixteen hundred men, and Australia had but sixty-fire .men. Whether a force were paid out of Imperial resources or the colonial funds, still, in case of necessity, the colony would look to relief and protection from the Imperial Government. Thus in New Zealand they had a large native population, and there, therefore, they must have a largo military force. From that expense they could not escape; and he doubted much whether the mother country would save much by adopting the Hon. Baronet's proposition. Let them take the case of the Cape. If they granted it local self-government, and did not inter fere with the administration of its affairs, and yet, if a war broke out with the Kafirs, his Hon. Friend would give them a large sum of money to maintain the ex penses of the war. Sir W. MOLESWORTII—N o , no. Mr. HAWES—He understood from the Hon. Baronet that in such a case he would not abandon the colony to its own resources. He gathered, from what his Hon. Friend had said, that he saw the contingency before him, and that he discerned this fact, that they could not separate the commercial interests of British subjects hero from those of British subjects in their colonies. The time, then, would come, when they would have to answer this question—would they assist the colony when it was placed in difficulties? And he was sure the country would readily give its assent to do so, and thus the policy of the lion. Baronet would involve them in a heavier expense than what was in curred under the present system.—(Hear, hear.) But supposing the recommendations of the Hun. Baronet to be adopted, ho assumed that the intercourse between the mother country end the colony would be as beneficial as it was at present. Experience served to show that assertion was not sustainable in fact. Let them take the case of the United States of America, which had once been colonies of the British empire. Now that the United States were separated from this country, the British merchant, before he could bring his goods into one of their ports, had to pass through protecting duties of 25 per cent.—(Hear, hear)—whilst in every colony that belonged to the British empire he had a friendly port open to him. The vote, he said, was an important consideration for them, because many of these colonies were trying to impose a protecting tariff, and if they were independent of this country they would have their trade interfered with. It might be said that these duties would be paid by the consumers in the colonies. There could be no doubt that such would be the case, but in proportion as these protective duties were high their power to purchase would be im paired; and thus they would have an increase of taxation in another shape, ev. n though they might get rid of the cost of an immediate expenditure, which the Hon. Ba ronet desired.—(Hear, hear.) It was not on mere com mercial and pecuniary grounds alone that he opposed the motion of the Hon. Baronet; and taking up those other grounds led him to refer to the Cape of Good Hope.— (Hear, hear.) When they took possession of the Cape of Good Hope they found that it was a possession that extended 400 miles inland, and they took it with the obligation to protect the white population there, and also to protect the coloured population. Now, they could not withdraw Imperial control from that colony without en dangering the safety of the colony. They had not, he said, the power to throw away the obligations they had eon trected. His Hon. Friend had mentioned that lie had on this occasion made the observations ho intended to have offered to the House on an amendment of which ho hail given notice, on the motion of the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell); and this induced him (Mr. Hawes) to refer more particularly to what bad been said on the subject by tho Hon. Baronet.—(Boar, hoar.) The Hon. B-ire net had spoken of their " frontier policy" at the Capo of Good Hope. His Hon. Friend had been discreetly silent as to his significations of a "frontier policy;" but he threw ridicule upon their extending their empire. Now, he (Mr. Hawes) did net know of a single governor of eminence who hail nut recommended exactly the same policy Which Sir Harry Smith had followed. It was the policy recommended by Sir B. D'Urban. But then, it it was said that policy had failed; but he denied that it had failed. In 1820 that House voted a large slim of money for the purpose of sending out emigrants APRIL 11 5 1851. to plant on their frontier; and one of the most promi vent in recommending that measure was the Honour able Member for Montrose, who urged them to in crease the number of their emigrants. That, then, was their policy, and they had thus incurred an obligation to protect these emigrants. When the Dutch had that colony their system was to allow the Dutch settlers to raise a military force themselves, to proclaim war against the natives when they chose, and to carry it on with all those blood-stained incidents with which such a war was sure to be accompanied. That system England indignantly rejected. They determined that a regular military force should take the place of such a volunteer force ; but they soon found that the frontier chosen by Lord Charles Somerset in 1820 was badly chosen as a defensive frontier. Part of the ar rangement then made was to extend the frontier from the Fish River to Keisltamna. Sir B. D'Urban, Sir H. Pottinger (a most valuable governor), and Sir H. Smith all concurred in this policy, and its value was proved by what had recently occurred, for the Kafirs, alarmed at the idea of having forts behind them, had not in their incursions caused anything like the mischief or loss of life that had occurred on similar occasions hitherto. It was said that Sir H. Smith had been taken by surprise, but he referred to a paragraph in a letter of Sir Harry Smith to which the Hon. Baronet had not alluded, and in that letter, daeed 20th December, p. 64, and paragraph 6, showed that Sir H. Smith, though he conceived that peace had been established, had yet resolved not upon disbanding the troops until he was convinced that general tranquillity had been established. In reference to Sir H. Smith, he could not avoid saying, that as an absent man, as an officer, and as a governor, he thought this was not the fitting time to cast ridicule upon him.— (Cheers.) He did assure the lion. Baronet that what was said in that House had a considerable effect out of it, and that lion. Members ought sometimes to feel more responsibility than was generally evinced by them, when they passed their censures upon absent individuals. —(Cheers.) But the Hon. Baronet passed to Natal, and said that there they came in contact with a naval force that was bold and terrible. He admitted that they were a very brave people, and he had to add that they were now marching to the aid of Sir Harry Smith. In that colony they had nearly 100,000 natives under British dominion, and they were very civilised, for they paid taxes very well—(Laughter)—and they preferred direct taxes, for they paid a house tax.—(Laughter.) That colony was managed very well, but then they were told a great deal about the Boers. Now the first cause of the alienation of the Boers was, that the British Go vernment would -not allow them to proclaim war against the native tribes and a great cause of dissatisfaction with there was the abolition of slavery, as they said they could not carry on their agricultural labour with out slaves.—(Hear.) As to the convict question at the Cape, it was sufficient to say of it, that those who agi tated against it well knew that it was never intended to make the Cape a convict settlement, and those who had taught others to despise authority, were now reaping the bitter fruits of their own treachery. The proposition of the Hon. Baronet amounted to this, it was that they should save 1,200,000/. and part with their colonial empire. The simple question then was this—was their colonial empire worth 1,200,0001.? They must not calculate the value of their colonial trade by simple exports and imports from this country with the colonies. In doing that the Hon. Baronet took no notice of their shipping, and the amount of capital and interests involved in their inter-colonial trade—in their trade be tween colony and colony. Of these things the Hon. Baronet took no notice at all. It was as if he were to take the total expenditure of the Great Western and North-Western Railway, and then only look to what goods were sent from Euston-square and Paddington, without taking any notice of what was sent from the other stations along their lines. Such was the Honourable Baronet's mode of giving them the value of their colonies by merely taking into his account their colonial exports.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He was quite sure, then, that the policy of the Honourable Baronet was not one the House was prepared to adopt.—(Hear, hear.) He found by papers which were then before him, that the estimates had been gradually reduced from a sum of about 226,0001. when the present Government came Into office, to an annual vote of 180,0001. His Hon. Friend (Sir W. Molesworth) had alluded to the subject of reducing the number of troops in New South Wales. Might he refer his Hon. Friend to the papers which had been cir culated that morning showing the intentions of his Noble Friend (Earl Grey) as to the further reduction of the military force in the colonies, and he could assure the Hon. Baronet that if there were a reasonable or practicable reduction to be made, no man would be more anxious to effect it than his Noble Friend. He trusted, then, that the House would not follow the Hon. Baronet's advice, but support him (Mr. Hawes) in the course he felt bound to pursue, by moving the " pre vious question," as the only way in which he could show that the motion was met in a kindly spirit, and that the Government were prepared to reduce the Colonial expenditure to the lowest point that it could be reduced consistently with the honour of the country.—(Hear.) Mr. ADDERLEY complained that the Under-Secre tary for the Colonies had gone out of his way to allude to the convict question, and to throw the blame of the irritation at the Cape, not on those who attempted to make the Cape a convict station, but on those who re sisted the attempt. As the subject of the Kafir war should be fully gone into by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, he thought the most advisable course to adont would be to divide at once on the question be fore the House, and discuss the subject of the Kafir war separately. Tho motion of the Hon. Baronet was, is point of fact, to reduce the military expenditure of the colonies, and to give them the powers and advantages of local self-government. This proposition was charac terised by the Under-Secretary for the Colonies as neither more nor less than abandonment of the colonies. In a recent dispatch from the Noble Lord et the head of the Colonial Department to Lord Elgin—a dispatch bearing date March 11—the withdrawal of a large number of troops from Canada was directed, and the banding over of the civil estimates to the considera tied of the local Legislature suggested. Why should the principle be carried out with regard to the largest and most powerful colonies, and yet be denied in the case of smaller colonies? The policy proposed by the Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark was one in its very nature calculated to avoid an abandonment of the colonies. That policy was based on broad, sound principles. The entire subject presented itself under a double aspect; first, as a qestion of retrenchment, and, secondly, as a general colonial question. When the question of protection occurred to him, he felt he con fessed mortified that so few of its professors had mani fested any sympathy in the cause of retrenchment, which they had undertaken to support. Protectionist Members, though they had told the farmers that protection was a lost battle, and had taught them not to look forward to a return to it, still they had promised to do their utmost in procuring a retrenchment. There was a noble oppor tunity for them. But whether this expenditure was to be discountenanced or not, by the effect of the divi sion on this motion, the country had long since decided against, and would not much longer tolerate it. Though it bad borne it long and patiently, the time had come when, in a moment of irritation, it would throw it off, and repudiate along with it the whole of their colonial system. The only way in which such a calamity was to be avoided was, by at once establishing a colonial sys tem of government on sound principles, while it was still in their power to deal with the subject calmly, and upon a full knowledge of facts. They must, before long, come to an understanding with the colonies, and lay down a definite policy respecting them. He (Mr. Adderley) maintained that they could not deal with this important subject by agreeing to the previous question. At the very moment when the surplus was to be handed over to the commissaries to defray the expenses of the war had they not constituencies at home that might be glad to share it? But the fact was, that there would always be a Kafir war to swallow up any surplus that might occur. It was, in fact, a mere mockery of the coun try to be talking of the surplus at its disposal, when, in fact, its application was anticipated. Far better would be to have ship-money, or benevolences, or any the contrivances of former times, than to be thus deluded with the pretence of a consti tutional taxation and expenditure. We had all the practical tyranny of a despotism, and all the trouble of a democracy, united at present in our existing system of Government. lie did not hesitate to say that they might use the words which were used in that House in the reign of Henry the Eighth, when he sent Cardinal Wol soy to demand a benevolence. The words which were used on that occasion by a Member were worthy of be ing remembered. They were these—" If our money is to be taken by a commission, we shall be taxed like France, our taxes will be farmed, and this country will be hound, and no longer free."—(Hear, hear.) He had no sympathy with those who looked on the colonies merely as a pecuniary question. He might refer in sup port of his own view of the subject, to some remarkable words which occurred in a letter, written by Mr. Godley to Mr. Bagster, while expressing his opinion that we should feel the loss of a colony less than that constant loss which a colony was made to produce by extravagance and migovernment. His words were—" When the Roman legions drew within the line of the Danube, it was not the loss of the province of Dacia, but the satisfaction of the Roman people at the loss, which was so ominouste loss of of the spirit of the times." And in speaking of the suffered less loss of prestige and of str en g th, t r u yh r e e rn o . s 3 000 000/ our American colonies, he said disastrous as i l t tihe w a a nn s evw w ee e r should have done had we retained t question; ,: but . the bj a ys oroemprmoaecrhootoofo ourur - c l o ( o ) r o u 4 k l , d e o d o n cl u o , p t o o o a n o v i t d h a i s s e e s i ti n that h s e p s e p c e u l n n enterprise of our colonists. colonies, and paralysed the that spoke her e , b u t selves, but that it y a e c a t r ual a y s er n i o p t ple o d n Baronet grounded hi s observations on , the principal to p i c Itthatof colonial military waso of not the trio t v i o s m i c e . o T f e c o I n f o e ni n y . d estlndies, the Cape, pointed out to military expenditureatid he proved app that t o fi h r l o s case grou o p t s . reduction colonies, applied e the IV ' or Z ie e o a t a t t h ' Ose li t e he military ex penditure the e., house North tl aan in Aa r every American, w e of England alone was equal in those eases to the whole revenue of the colony —except in ono case, where, in the north part of New Zealand, it was six times the a mount, and the military forces exceeded the adult male population. Th 6 Uuder Secretary for the Colonies made, for an only answer to this, that the expenditure was necessary, and that we must Dbandou the colonies, or maintain it. The co ' lorries, ho said, were taken possession of by us on that faith, and in good faith We should adhere to it. In contradiction to this statement he had this to urge, that this expenditure, buroensome as it was to this country, and hateful as it was to us, was even more deeply hated by and injurious to our colonists. In New Zealand thero was a new association formed of all the householders, which called itself the Constitutional Assembly, and which sat side by side with that of the local Government. That body seemed to have a greater command of infer ' motion, and had certainly more of the sympathy of the t people than the recognized body. That expenditure, moreover, had the effect of demoralizing the population politically and morally. Why could not the colonies produce sufficient statesmen to govern them? It was owing to our corrupt and debasing system. The gover nor governed by corruption, and as his power proceeded from an alien source, he was unchecked by the people about him. This expenditure injured the colonies by creating 2. fictitious system of expenditure. There re venues were nothing more than an item of British expenditure.— (Hear.) This was the normal state of our colonies. How could countries that had no com merce whatever have a revenue? The main and the last observation he would make was that this very mi litary expenditure created wars. A large military force led to its own use, and to the occasion of its own em pleyeeente—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord was wrong when he interrupted the Hon. Baronet (Sir W. Moles worth) end said that the policy of Sir Harry Smith was not to destroy the chiefs.—(lnterruption.) The House was not interested in this question.—(Renew e d c r i es o f " Hear.") He would not enter further upon the question, but would wind up the observations he had to make, a s he saw the House impatient, by pressing upon them to take immediate steps for the reduction of colonial ex penditure. Mr. STANLEY said he should not follow the Hon. Baronet thrcugh the vast variety of subjects he bad at tempted to handle. He would confine himsolis to the question of colonial economy. The Hon. Baronet con tended that at the earliest possible period this country ought to bo relieved from military and other kinds of expenditure on behalf of the colonies. The Honourable Baronet said that there were some colonies which could not have any value as military stations. He had in stanced Jamaica, but from the testimony of a foreign power, the American Government, it was asserted that that would soon become one of the highways of the world. Its contiguity to the Isthmus of Panama gave it some value as a military sta tion.--(Hear.) The second part of his resolution was to give the colonies sufficient powers of internal self-go vernment, and to free them from Imperial interference. (Hear, hear.) If the Hon. Baronet characterised our military establishments as created for the purpose of putting down public opinion and establisning despotism, he could only say that he knew more of the theory than the practice of government.—(Hear.) Over the vast ex tent of our colonies there was only about 9,000 men. When that was considered, our colonial system could not be so despotic as represented. It was a common thing to charge the Imperial Parliament with indifference to colonial affairs, bat he could appeal to the records of their debates, and to the personal experience of Members for incontestible evidence of the interest taken in colonial affairs.—(Hear, and cheers.) In the case of colonial af fairs the only power which that House exercised was that of a court of the last resource. It was a kind of court of appellate jurisdiction for the colonies. Do what they would, Colonial Assemblies must be more or less democratic assemblies. In speaking of a con stitution for the colonies, they were to take into account, first, the fluctuating character of that population—not being of one colour, but of a hetero genous kind. On that point, he would remind the House, of the report made by Lord Durham, in 1834, and in which he said, that he expected to find in Canada a party struggle, but he found instead a war of races.— (Hear.) He thought it was quite clear that Parliament should keep the power of interfering in extraordinary cases. He would have been glad to have had an oppor tunity of laying before the House the degree of pros perity enjoyed by those colonies which the Honourable Baronet had said were all but crushed and ruined.— (Hear, hear.) He would take a single case, that of the colony of New South Wales. He would show to the House by official statements its rapid prosperity. In the exports the increase had been as twenty to one—taking the period of twenty years from 1828 to 1848, and in the imports the increase had been nearly as great, in 1828 amounting to 57,0001., and in 1850, 1,500,000/. Then as to pcpulation—in 1828 the population of New South %Vales was 36,000, and in 1848 it had increased to 200,000.—(Hear.) Nearly similar statements could be made with reference to the other colonies of Australia, —and it might with truth be said that they were more prosperous, and the increase might be called more marvellous than in the Western States of America.—(Hear, hear.) He did not deny the distress that was stated to exist in the West Indies; and one thing was certain, that if ho went back to 1934, and that there had been then in existence an independent colonial legislature, it would have been the means of perpetuating evils far more serious than any that now existed.—(Hear, hear.) Did any man think that the Act of slavery abolition would ever have been passed by an independent colonial Legislature?—(Hear, hear.) Tho set of constitutions which the Hon. Baronet proposed seemed to be something in the nature of a con federation—a military confederation it could not be, and he (Mr. Stanley) confessed he could not understand what such a confederation could be; for it would cf necessity be—" each for himself and Heaven for us all." As to one point of the case of war, if this country declared that in any war the colonies must pay, they must give to the colonies the power to determine the war.— (Hear, hear.) They could not do so, for in that case they must allow the colonies to contract any alliances they chose, and if they allowed that this country could not retain any vestige of supremacy. He (Mr. Stanley) believed that what would follow from the adoption of the resolu tion would be the abandonment of their colonies. — (Hear, hear.) To that he could never consent. It would be an act of the most suicidal character, and he should therefore give to the resolution of the Hon. Baronet the most strenuous and determined opposi tion.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. COBDEN said the speech of tho Hcn. Baronet remained to answer, notwithstanding all that had been said Cu the subject. The lion. Gentleman who had just sat do,in had narrowed the question indeed, though he certainly professed not to understand the comprehensive view of the Hon. Baron-t. He had not said a single word about English commercial interests in the colonies in the course of his speech; and had solely referred to the colonies as means of furnishing military posts and military garrisons. The Hen. Gentleman had called the attention of the House to the advantage of having 1,500 miles of military frontier in Canada; but he (Mr. Cob den) hoped England would never have to defend that line against 24,000000 of the bravest people in the world. The Hon. Gentleman had prided himself on the idea of Jamaica being made a military station; but was that the fact? Even the Hon. Gentleman himself admitted that the Americans were avoiding the route to Chagres and creating another route by the way of Nicaragua to avoid that mili tary station. The trade of New York to Panama was di verted because of that circumstance. The Hon. Gentle man informed tho House of the great prosperity of the colonists in Australia. He might have gone farther, and told how the labouring man in these colonies got 4s. or ss. a day, while if ho only turned his eyes at home he would find agricultural labourers getting only ls. a day; and then ho might ask whether it was not time the people of England should have justice done to them, taxed as they were for the support of colonial prospe rity. The Hon. Gentleman, however, could not be charged with making the question a mercenary one—a mere pecuniary question, as the Hon. Under-Secretary for the Colonies bad taunted the Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark with making it. The Hon. Under-Secretary, however, should show that there never was a period in the history of the country when pounds, shillings, and pence formed such an important items in politics as the present. On Monday there was a great debate ou the apportionment of 1,500,000/. sur plus; on Friday there would be another debate on the same subject. The lion. Member for Bucks would hardly sneer at the pecuniary view of the question, nor would the last messenger from the agricultural interest, the Hon. Member for South Notts. Tho Hon. Under- Secretary of State could, therefore, have but a very im perfect perception of what was passing in the minds of his countrymen, when he sneered at the Hon. Baronet making the subject of the colonies a pecuniary ques tion. The Honourable Baronet, however, had Wien a more generous view of the character of the colonists ho than the Hon. Secretary for the Colonies; because ho gave them, on the one hand, the rights of citizens,. while. on thi other, had he abolished the expenditure oncivil end military matters—a choice which he (Mr. Cobden)_ ...s Hon. no doubt would bo accepted by the colonists. .1 - 1 I Friend had incurred much odium for his efforts in respect of the colonies; but the only reduction that could be made which would sensibly affect the expenses of this country was the one he proposed—namely, to cut down the civil and military expenses of the colonies. Free-traders and Protectionists would be soon brought to the same view of the case. The present surplus could not be depended on—in fact it was, as had been stated, half consumed already on Kafirland. He (Mr. Cobden) did not con sider, as a Free-trader, that because the corn-law was repealed there would be no deficiency in the revenue; on the contrary, a convulsion on the Continent, or an explosion in America, would, in his opinion, produce a collapse in the revenue. Tho only way to look for a permanent surplus was in the reduction cf expenses, and the expenses that first claimed attention were the naval and military expenses of the colonies. The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Stanley) spoke as if money was to be had without trouble or expense, but he was mistaken. As a Free-trader he (Mr. Cobden) considered the relations of the mother country with the colonies had changed since free trade was established. He was surprised to see the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon had left the House, for that Right [lon. Gentleman had taken a course on the question of the commercial policy of the country which involved as logical consequences the reduction of expenditure in the colonies. When the exclusive trade of this country with the colonies was put au end to the plea of uphold ing civil and military establishments was got rid of. The Hon. Member for Lynn seemed to think there was a dif ferential duty in favour of England still kept up in the colonies. He was mistaken. The colonies, by the Act of 1846, had a right to regulate their own tariff, and they regulated them accordingly. England had, therefore, no favour in that respect. Canada had been a ll u ded to, but England had g i ven u p a ll sovere i gn ty o v e r the land in that colony. Ile could not, therefore, conceive jt why she kept s oldi e r s th ere . I', then, she could to away an acre of land, or regulate the tariff, or l ev y taxes in her colonies—in Canada in Par:iar_wbat hoar,) They was the use of 9,000 troops?—( could not hold the country against 2,000,000 the people were so minded.troops?—(hear, people, if 11e reale fact was, and h e - House, there w as knew it to be one unpalatable to .n the expenditure o f th an immense deal of jobbing l Canada, and there were cons eq uently parties both t h ere and at home who had an interest in keeping things as they were. The people of England, however, had no such interest in the matter, an d they would no longer tole rate_ it. The colonies were connected with England by a stronger tie than a fe w troo p s and a paltry expenditure —they were connected by the ties o f self- i nterest, throu g h lines of packets, and other considerations of that nature; they were also connected by blood, by reli gion, by feeling. h • ) laws, and He (Mr. Cobden), there -1 f ore; regarded the question , in its pecuniary aspect as one o f the most important that had been brought before the House in the present session; and he considered if Hon. Members on the other side refused to support it under that aspect, they were not entitled to any remission of taxation. If the military and civil exp en di ture of the colonies were r e d uce d, h e (Mr. C o bd en ) could see his way to a repeal of th e malt-t a x, for instance—(Laughter) —but otherwise he could not.—(Great laughter.) g o held that Hon. Gentlemen opposite would bo on their trial on that occasion; and if they wished for a reduo tion of taxation they would join his Hon. Friend, who was one of themselves—a person who had agricultural interests at heart, who had come forward as an inde pendent gentleman, and not from the Manchester School —(Laughtter)—and, indeed, if ever there was an occa sion upon which to show themselves sincere, the present was one.—(Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL said, I quite agree with the Hon, Gentleman who has just sat down, that this is a aost important question.—(Hear, hear.) It is not a question of , the saving of 1,200,0001., or 1,500,0001., or even 2,000,000/. a year. It is nut a question of the repeal of the malt-tax, which the Hon. Gentleman thinks is the most capsiviting form in which to place it before Hon. Gentlemen eppositc—(Laughter)—but it is a question whether the tendency of your policy shall be towards the maintensnce or the dissolution cl this great empire. - -(Hear.) This is the nature of the motion which the Hon. Gentleman has made. The motion of the Hon. Gentleman is, as the Hon. Member for Lynn has argued most justly, in that very able speech which he has de livered—(lrear)—this: it is a question, not of diminish ing a part of your military esta.blishmente—of reducirg that which may b e excessive in some of our colonies— but to take away the whole of your military expendi ture from those colonies which cannot be considered as military or convict stations.—(hear, hear.) Now, Sir, it is impossible to consider such a question as this without endeavouring to trace what might be the consequences of such a policy being a d o pt e d— e ff ect i ng, in the words of the resolution, this policy as soon as Possible. The Hon. Member for the West Riding says that these colonies will remain attached to you, from the attachment which naturally and particularly belongs to them as persons of the same r ace . But this is not a consideration to make us abandon all those colo nies. Nor is it the question which affects some of our principal colonies to which he has adverted. With re gard to Canada, you say you will not have any m ili tary expenditure; but if you show a disposition not to defend Canada in time of war—they are of the same race, they may require our protection—but, not receiving it, they may look for the protection of some other country. But it may be said that Canada can form a separate and in dependent state of her own. This, however, is not the case with many other colonies. Jamaica, for instance, could never exist as a separate state. There was a publication issued the other day by an American gentleman who oad visited Jamaica, and he said that within twenty years Jamaica must belong to the United States; but if you adopt this policy which the Hon. Gen tleman recommends, this change will take place within two years instead of twenty.—(Hear, hear.) It is im possible not to believe that the people of Jamaica, if they saw the whole of their garrisons removed, and all the duty of protection discarded, would not refer to some strong state which would give them pro tection, and that state must be the United States of America. It is the same thing with regard to our other colonies which in former wars we have taken from other powers. The Cape, for instance, whi c h i s i n a great part inhabited by Dutch, if you say you will leave them to any danger which may threaten them or their possessions, what would be easier for them than to come to the kingdom of the Netherlands and ask for that protection which a colony has a right :to ask, as long as you demand allegiance from them?—(Elear.) In the same way, if you abandon Trinidad, she may apply to Spain, and the Mauritius to France. So in the course of some two or three years you would have dis solved that great colonial empire which it cost the wis dom, design, and valour of our greatest statesmen, our best soldiers, and our moat gallant sailors to build up in the course of "former wars.—(Cheers.) But then my Hon. Friend who makes this motion, and those who vote with him, think and speak as if another war was an improbable thing, and there was to be a perpetual peace. As we hare been so long without the calamity of war, they think there is no danger of peace being interrupted. But we must never lose sight of the fact that by some sudden turn of events, often by an unforeseen oc currence springing up, we might be engaged in war with some of the other powers of Europe. What then would be the case with your trade?—(Hear.) It would not be in times of war as in times of peace. Your colonies would be the depots of privateers, would be filled with hostile ships, your trade and commerce would be destroyed, and those your now loyal and attached colonies would be the resort of your most implacable enemies. —(Hear, hear.) I confess I am sometimes disheartened by the language held by various parties out of doors as much as in this House. It really seems to me that after the career through which we have gone in the course of centuries, from the time that Oliver Cromwell first took Jamaica down to the end of the last war, there were persons who, seeing that we were in possession of a great and suffi cient empire, can merely consider in w h a t wa y th a t em pire may be diminished and lessened.—(Hear, hear.) It is quite evident that if this policy were carried into effect in the manner proposed, it would not be many years that you could maintain your present place and reputation in the world. No sooner was it known that you had given up your colonies, than foreign powers who hod little cause of quarrel would consider the best mode of attacking a country less able to resit them. But you must not conceive that that great place which we keep in the world, and which we have secured with many battles and scars, is not an object of envy to many other states, and that immediately they saw you were disposed to shrink from your empire—not that its limits were nar rowed, but yet that the spirit which maintained it was narrowed, and that the same determination which ani mated this mighty monarchy had departed—then this envy would spring up into wars of aggression against you.—(Hear.) In what state would you be left then? You would have none of the material power a hich these colonies have given you—you would have parted with these colonies, to obtain which you have contracted such a heavy debt, and yet the obligation of that debt would still remain. You would have an undiminished debt, with a diminished en Tire and possessions.—(Hear.) Now, Sir, I must say, I think the loss would b e mote than the loss of possessions, there would be also the loss of that reputation—of that high honour we have hitherto enjoyed, which, if you are prepared for a very short time to suffer, the people of this country will not be prepared to suffer also.—(Hear.) We can recollect in former times when colonies were founded in the United States, obtaining little support from the mother country, there were incursions made by the savage tribes into the infant settlements, and villages were destroyed, and the inhabitants massacred. At this time the news of this calamity did not arrive in this country before one or two years, and the calamity did not produce any great sensation then. But if you were to hear now that a number of E ng li s h settlers, who in 1819 had gone out under the sancti on an d protect i on o f t h e G overn ment of this country to the Capo of Good Hope, had been _t . tfteked, and the great er p ort i on o f th em murdered by ! . El e vages—that the land th e y cu lti va ted was seized, an r.ans d w t h n o villages they inhabited b ur n e d by tho barbarians e eshtarov4d another town, abandoned the had slaughtered them—if yo u had heard f r om New Zea land that a h os til e t r ib e had d and if you heard, moreover, that, coast e f Africa (for that too was part of the lion. Gen latitude with all its former vigour , people of tivman's savings) the slave trade wa l s t f i l l o tn u k ris t h h i e ng in th a t England would turn with indignation, gntahtls economical lon,annin and would ld say, wh be, atever 1,000,000/. Cr 2,000,0001., by whatever the saving may although may be pro ject, lt us bear the burden,d an put eves twice as e eh on us, soone r th an , h ave our countrymen de toll stroyed in tho colonies which you have made, and where they went under your protection.—(Hear, hear.) Putting aside the question of empire and power, the honour and reputation of this country would so greatly stiffer we should be unable to maintain ouch a policy as this,—(Hear.) With regard to the motion of the lion. Baronet, that in return for the loss of this military protection we should give representative institutions to our colonies, I must say I think the argument of the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies on that sub ject is quite unanswerable. In Jamaica you have free representative institutions, and an Assembly which takes mere power upon itself than the House of Commons. You might take away the 1,500 men from Jamaica, but you cannot give her a more powerful Assembly or freer institutions than she now has.—(Hear, bear.) In Trinidad you have 400 men; but if you were to g ri lve them representative institutions it is the f Lord Harris that the number of races ther°,3P that there would be a continuous war oferace numbera instead of 400 men being sufficient gi,.__ :ng say would require to be augmented, of insteadd tion D" of the dif ference away.—(Hear, hear.) This question i rs s i :s a u n c h . one of the of races in the colonies be lost sight of in utmost consequence, and should nevergrrisons necessary to the consideration of the military h'i a va Germans, French, savage tribes of every rs; fact, ° Zealand, Kfi in be kept in those countries. th e earth, some of Spaniards, Portuguese, llutleri anwmaysottnh: omnielitoarryotphreor. description—aborigines of N ew Zealand, on there is scarcely a race of mar? taking o of our colonies. But in lc whom are not under our d t o: military authority, and you would now have, you would give to one of t t e h c o t s i c on ra w c h es ich th t s hz l.o for instance. introduce endless dissensions in all those cases. Take Canada,My Hon. Friend said s uch cases he would leave the colonies to tthheatcaisne allof C provide fo t h e ir own internal tra nqu illi ty. A ny one w h o h a s obseed the history o f Canada must have ob servedry danger which ar i ses to Canada from its having LA the b e en divided i nto two distinct divisions—one inhabited solely by British settlers, and the other by French. The French race, having the majority by two thirds or three-fourths, were bent upon separating from this country a lt ogether, and establ i sh i ng a French Canadian republic in Lower Canada. Such a dangerous attempt the English race resisted; and when the insurrection took ple t c h e e lt pia: down by them, mad through the means of mili tary forces in the country instead of Sir John Colborne. But if this insurrection, put down having been put down as it had been, d h you would by an English militia in the same provincesl under the ablend,irection of i hear.) Sir. have a much longer enmity and . in o. ui them had occurred or was desirabl (r g ,,a re r, ater cruelty h and one which and 1 c.sueot assent to this mo tion a . bie l S a p d ee c o li. r :' d t h e spee ch of Btu anner not unworthy of that brought it forward in ce ° could agree with him, if in sinhyoaleedn'tlh'ariten 1 ( 1 1 aasaaaverydied that great subject, uhj ar, hear.) hould withdraw from those co stead of saying colonies in which the military that there were somet and in which the people thorn loniss—which ittwhaats wimepsossible to define; if he had said selves might ' ln. couple of late dispatches of Lord nish sufficient military. The House garrisons are too c must have seen a , in which, with . reference to New South Wales Grey s, it was proved that these colonies and Canada,to their own military oughtde be amount of foroe iiept up for 45 plus folio; t to contribute materially s