The Sun. — London, England, 1845-04-25 00:00:00

avow his determination to support that Church, and yet adopt a line of pc licy which would unquestionably lead to its speedy and utter destruction. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government said be introduced this measure for the purpose of conciliating the Roman Catholics, but did not the representatives of the Roman Catholic Church (Mr. Shell and others) denounce the Protestant Chnrch in Ireland as the most intolerable and monstrous of all anomalies, and that to conciliate the Irish Catholics it was quite clear the Pro testant Church establishment there must be overthrown. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government said last session that he would support the Established Church in Ire land which had been established by compact, but he added this important condition :—" Unless an overwhelming neces sity of public policy compels me to change my opinion." He (Mr. Colquhoun) did not think it would require a very strong pressure to induce this change in the Right Hon. Gentleman's sentiments.—( Hear, bear.) So that that Church for which they had so long, so perseveringly, and so unitedly struggled, in opposition, must, in the opinion of the Right Hon. Baronet, yield to the pressure of public opinion. The condition - made by him was a plank wide enough for any Ministry on that side of the House to join with the Honourable Members for Sheffield and Montrose, and sweep away the Protestant Church in Ireland. He had heard with surprise and regret a portion of the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, and did not think it wise or prudent for a Minister of the Crown to utter—he spoke of the difficulties with which the Government ' of Ireland was beset—the combinaticns which existed there — and in two sentences after, alluded to " the threatening clouds on the other side of the Atlantic ;" and further, that he reflected with satisfaction that before the arrival of news of a hostile aspect from America, a message of peace had be.'n seat to Ireland.— ( Hear, hear). If it were right to establish Maynooth, let them do it ; hut let bins not attempt to fetter his judgment by • such terror.—( Hear, hear). Such language might suit the Coaciliatinn Hall, but hardly became a British Minister. Nor was it at all suited to convince the Hou e of Commons. The French papers, in discussing the Maynooth Bill, said it xas a • concession to Irish agitation. If there were differences with America or France. he felt sure that all parties in that House would unite in assisting the Government to take that course which became the honour, the interest, and the dignity of England. The Noble Lord. no doubt, was quite sure that he • should be unworthy the eonfidenoe of a 7 great party, and un worthy that name witieh had never been stained by the impu nation of cowardice, if he came down to that House, and said .• that, though he could not overtime the arguments and the rea soning of his Hon. Friend, pointing to the wars threatening in the silt and west, he should appeal to their fears of the disasters . they were about to encounter. The poorest labourer in the country would put on the garb of a soldier sooner than submit . ' to it.—( Hear, hear.) He held in his hand a statement which was made in the Freeman's Journal, the organ of the Irish • priesthood, and he found the language wentained in it to be this e—" The English yield (this valuable boon, no) this paltry civility, with an agony as ifshe were yielding her life. The con , • . cession which the grant foreshadows has not been won by cringing, or by giving any servile gratitude fur tenefits which she has won herself." These were the expectations of political gratitude which they ought to entertain for the boon which they were now conferring, and this boon would lead immediately to further and much greater concessions. The Members for Newcastle and Edinburgh complained of the union of all classes of Protestant Dissenters on this subject, and the Hon. Mem ber for Sheffield told them, if they took twenty-six thousand pounds from the property of the Established Church in Ire land, it would put an end to their complaints, and assuage the Irish people. If the position taken by the Dissenters was only . a mercenary one, their opposition could not be so heating or strenuous. The objections of the Dissenters to their giving anything to the Roman Catholic, establishment were these : They objected on two grounds; they objected to it on ac count of the voluntary principle, aad also on account of their dissent on religious matters. The Hon. Member for Dungarvon complained that the Church of Scotland had been made a free church. Let him tell the Honourable Gentleman the grounds on which that part of the Presbyterian Church became free. Was it not, because when they came to the House they refused them the supremacy they looked for, and yet they saw them giving to the Roman Catholic Church what they refused to the free church ? On these grounds they opposed the grant to Maynooth. Honourable Members complained of their dread of being ex'ravagern, but were they to pare down the feelings of hard-working, honest Englishmen to their principles ? And were they to say to them that they should not come before the Houma with petitions expressing their feelings in whatever language they pleased ?—( Hear, hear.) They also complained of the speeches that were made at meetings to petition against the Maynooth grant ; but if they referred to the proceedings at Covent Garden they might find Honourable Members at the other side of the House making speeches in not the most mild or most temperate language.— ( Hear, hear.) - He, himself was attacked for having taken the chair at one of those meetings, but he did not think that he or any other chairman would be responsible for all that had been said at a public meeting. If so, they should give up public meetings altogether. They would not be deterred, he would tell the Hon Member for Sheffield, by any lapse from priaciple on the tart of the Government, from supporting their own saber convictions. When he heard the sketch given last night by the Hon. Member for Edinburgh, of the history of Ireland. he could not help thinking of one of those words by which Mr. O'Connell often was in the habit ot appealing to the passions of his Irish auditors when he denominated the Irish opposed to him, and the English opposed to him, as " Saxons." And if they referred to the eational songs, they would find that word " Saxon " occurring frequently in the songs which were at this day circulated in every part of Ireland. There (AIM not be a doubt that the Saxons, ache called them. occupied Ire- Isrel by successive invasions, and planted their foot on Celtic soil ; but the conduct of these foreign landlords was anything bet politic ur wise; they kept down the Irish Celt by severe and canal laws, inflicted on him harsh exactiorts, and took no pains in his social or morel improvement. And as for the lii-h Church being a church fed with wealth, it was a church which was starved to absolute inanition up to the last fists years, by the same selfi,hness of the Irish landed piieUsa; but then came a better age, that awoke the re.ple to a conscious:lea; of their dittie, and the Church then ran:tied from the position to which it had fallen, until it came at last to a more healthy and better condition, which was within the last fifty tears. They comb.: not leave a better link between them and the people at this ttm., than the labours ot men of zeal, men of education, and men of charity, discharging their benevolent duties in the heart of a w Id and rude nation. Ile hash seen an example of this when he visited the residence of his Hon. Friend the Member for Bandoe, in the neighbourhood ot which place Roman Catholics were scattered through a very wide district. lie recollected accompanying a man who was at ttresen• a dignitary of the Irish Church, anal who was then rattier advanced in v 'ars, havini spent a long life and buried great talents in an Ob.eure and charitable object, throu2ll these districts, and he could eat forget how he was rec- iced by those vary Ilial - nats Catholics ; tine antler desisted from his labour, thi. cottage was opened, and the parent acid childos horn he had relieved from distress, rose to receive him, and he saw that there was one great catholicity of benevolence and kindness triumphant over ail, welding together discordant creeds and discordant feelings in one bonil of true and lasting attachment. If ever they did an ay with that Church, and negleced those men, tha truest ink between them and the pop;letion that surrosendeel them, then he would say that the be-t days of I:eland's prosperity were numbered. On these grounds he woulal for ever defend the maintenance of the Irish Church, and should give to the motion of the Hon. Member for Slat f. field the most strenuous opposition. Mr. BATESON said that he, as an Irish Protestant and a member of the Fstablished Church of tied country, felt him self compelled, by a sense of duty, to rose his feeble voice against the monstrous and iniquitous measure proposed by the lien. Member for Sheffield. He felt opposed to it on the grounds of its great injustice. lie thought that he ( Mr. Bate on) had as much right to come clown to the House and propose that the property of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ward) should be devoted to the Roman Catholic clergy for educational purposes, as he had to come and make th s motion. The honour of that House was pledged to keep the compact ma . tourhed anti inviolate. Ile hoped, however, that this liberality would not he one-sided, and he trusted that the Right lion. Baronet at the head of the Government would take into his consideration the claims of the Unitarians of Ulster, and would render them as much pecuniary assistance as would enable them to carry cut their objects. They were about to endow Mayroeth College liberally, and already they had passed the Charitable Itteries's Act. And why :lid they do ail this, but on the shallow• pretence of conciliation? But what had - been the result of this conciliation? Why, the demands of the Roman Catholics had been increased, and the Hon. Member for Dungarvon went so far as to say, they would not he as isfied until they were placed on a footing with the Pro testants of Trinity College. The House had ' been told that the root of all evil was the Protestant Church. Now, as a • Protestant landlord and a Protestant seldier, he repudiated all those assertions. Fut let any Hon Member in that House get ue and tell hint, from the bottont of his heart, that the Protestant Church was either a curse or an injury to Ireland. No, be defied any Hon. Member to prove anything of the sort. The Church, instead of being a curse, was a great benefit and blessing to Ir e land. Mr. BARING was anxious to explain, in a few words, the vote he was about to give on the present occasion, and he was anxious that the House should bear with him for a few mo ments while he stated the grounds upon which he was pre pared to vote with the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, and op poses the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield. He felt compelled to address the ;louse, because his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, in his aisle speech last night, stated that the House was divided on this question into two parties—namely, those who were prepared to vote with his Hon. Friend, and those who were ready to vo'e against him, and to say that the property of the Irish Church should be maintained inviolate. Now, although he should vote against the motion ref his Honourable Friend, he was not prepared to be included in the latter category. Ile did net consider that by supporting the Bill as it now stood he was precluded hereafter from going into its p. inciple, and the principle upon which Irish the Church ought to be maintained. He believed the Bill of the . Government would prove a great boon and benefit to Ireland, and he was therefore earnestly desirous that it should, in its present form, be carried into effeet, anti in doing so he slid not think he was opposing either his former opinions or principles. . He was not bound to support an amendment brought forward by a Member of his own party when lee thought it was to injure the . practical course which he wished to pursue. His Hon. .„ Friend some' years ago proposed that they should withdraw all et support from' both Establishments in Ireland. That was the As , opinion of his Hon. Friend three years ago, and whether he re leined that opinion still, of course, he (Mr. Baring) could not o: say. Well, two years arts he wished to withdraw all support ,„ front the tw o esta bli shm Ilr• WARD—No ; what I said was, "If you pay the Church, . ; .pay all or pay no ne ." Mr. BARING eontinued—At all events be was correct • in the sense of his H on . Friend, though not in the particular ~ expression; but be th a t as i t might, he himself believed the Bill ~to be a practical proposition, likely toproduce g rea t b ene fi t i n Ireland, and he thought the course of a practical man ought to rather to support what was in reality a measure, than r od h support a resolution which, however wise • ;all events very ill-timed. Entertai n i ng t h ese be, was a t views, he was - prepared to throw any difficulty in the way of the Cove ..merit measure. Everebody o f common sense then e rn , that they could not pass the Bill int o a l aw if they were trust st know • to it the proposal of his Hon. Friend the Member for to hef affix h, h e ld, . His honourable Friend, how ever , w i t h perfect frankness _, ( teoarell that he did not bring forward his measure to e.wtbstruct the principle of the Bill, but for the sak e of introduc ing and laying down a groat principle. His Hon. F r i en d sa i d • shicevas the first step taken in a course which would hereafter . bare to be more extensively carried out ; and it was, therefore, ,advisahle-that they should sketch out the principles by which e they were always to be guided in that course. But did his lion. Friend tell him what theme great principles were? If 1 -t e here erase any advantage to be obtained in making these prime it pie* known to the people of England, they should at any rate ~anake them intelligible and distinct. Ile could not understand what the particular principles were which Isis Honour able Friend wished to enunciate in his ainendnitent.— ( Hear.) If the endowment of the Catholic Church was to be considered as the principle, what did it matter whether it were endowed from the Consolidated Fund or from the funds of the Established Church ? That question might be reserved for after consideration. If it was expedient to state some principle to the people of England, by which they would hereafter be guided, of course it was no less expedient that they should state that principle clearly and distinctly, but he confessed the present was not the most favourable period for laying those principles down. He was not surprised at the difference of opinion which reigned on his own side of the Ataise, . It .was one of the great difficulties of legislating on Duch a subject. "Was it then advisable to lay down at that moment, and white the House was in this state of indecision of p-iuciplo, what should hereafter determine the course they were to pursue ? Were not the difficulties already sufficiently incumhering, without calling upon them to lay down the pr inciples which should hereafter guide them pon this ques tion? Well, then, let them deal with the evils s they at pre sent found them, and not state the principles 'o the people of England which they might hereafter find it nece ary towithdraw from. If this measure were granted, the peat , and satisfaction that would be certain to follow it in Ireland, would more than repay this country for a much greater cones sion.—( Hear.) He had no apprehension that it would not pass, for the real:and only feeling of hostility against it as a Roman Catholic mea sure was exhibited only by the Protestant Dissenters. But, he would ask, was it not likely that other feelings of hostility would be raised to P, if this motion were persevered in? He feared that Hon. Members on his side of the House were not sufficiently sensible of the apprehension that such was likely to occur. lie did not en tertain those conscientious objections to the grant that others did; on the contrary, he did think, as a Protestant, that it would be for the advantage of the Protestant Church to have its present temporalities reconsidered, and those scandals—(he did not say it offensively)—of which so much had been said of it, removed.—( Hear, hear.) He did believe it would be a great blessing to Ireland if the Government endowed the Ro man Catholic Church, provided it was not done in such a way as to make either the people or the clergy feel that that grant had placed them either in a degraded or servile position.— ( Hear, hear.) He believed that this grant would not only be a blessing to Ireland, but an act of policy by this country, and one worthy of the cause of Christianity.—( Hear, hear.) He was well aware that there were very many Protestants who were firm supporters of their religion, but were ready to admit that the Fstablishment had its abuses, and that they ought to be removed; yet he doubted very much if the taking away of the funds of one establishment to support another would be likely to give satisfaction.—( Hear, hear.) One thing was quite clear, and that was, that the English as well as the Irish people felt deeply upon this question ; and, therefore, he would say, that if the Government could give this boon to Ireland without giving dissatisfaction to England, he would be prepared to support it.—( Cheers. ) Mr. BERNAL said he regretted that he felt himself called upon to oppose the views of his Right Hon. Friend who had just sat down, and in doing so he should do him the justice to say that he had expressed his sentiments upon this question, that evening, in that bold, upright, and comprehensive manner, that did him honour, and showed that he was incapable of utter. ing any sentiment that he did not feel the truth and justice of in his heart.—(Hear, hear.) But the reasons alleged and the arguments used by his Right Hon. Friend, for the vote he in tended to give, were not satisfactory to him, nor were they such as would deter him (Mr. Bernal) from giving his support to his Hon. Friend Mr. Ward's motion. He would not enter upon any long argument, in addition to those adduced by his Hon. Friend, in support of his motion ; but he would endeavour to confine himself as much as possible to the merits of the motion itself.—( Hear, Hear.) His Honourable Friend had said that the present Parliament should not do any act by which to fetter the acts of future legislation ; but how did he propose to remove the difficulty ? Did the Hon, Member suppose that the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet was such a one as could not be disturbed hereafter ? He (Mr. Bernal) would contend for it, that there were inhe rent difficulties in the way of legislating effectively upon this subject, which would always embarrass it.—( Hear, hear. ) His Right Hon. Friend had said that in legislating upon this question, regard should be had to the opinions of the people of England; but, at the same time, it should not be forgotten that they should also legislate conscientiously, and in such a manner as they conceived they were bound as legislators to do. —(Hear, hear.) He was not one of those who had bound him self to that shadow of a party, or that ghost of a section— (Laughter)—called the Irish Church party.—( Hear, hear.) Bat, at the same time, he never would be one to lend himself to what was called the destruction of the Irish Church.— (Hear, hear.) But when he had heard Hon. Members in that House declare, in the course of this debate, that at the time of the Union a bond was entered into, by which the Irish Church Establishment was to be held hence forth inviolable, he would ask what had they not already due in regard to that establishment ?--(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Had they not since considerably narrowe 1 the whole of the Ecclesiastical Establishment in Ireland?—( Hear, hear.) Had they not dealt summarily with the tithe question ? —(Flear, hear.) If so, then, he would say, they slsould now, once and for ever, abandon this fanciful condition.— (Cheers. ) He would say, if they meant to act in this same way for the future, there was nothing in the history of the past to render .the pursuit of such a course inconsistent.—(Hear, hear.) He had heard the Hon. Member for Newcastle declare that he was inviolably attached to the Church Establishment, both from principle and ss a matter of State policy. He (Mr. Bernal) regretted that the Hon. Member was not in his place, or he would be ready to answer him.—( Hear, hear.) He had also heard other Hon. Members make use of language in reference to this question, that was not very creditable.—( Hear, hear. ) Ile had heard of such expressions as the " No Popery" cry, and l'o;sish domination and ascendancy, and that the Catholics were treasonable subjects to the Queen and Constitution ; out he would say he held such language in the greatest detestation, and he repudiated it.—(Cheer..) Ten years ago he heard similar language used, when the Houses of Parliament were burnt ; and therefore he would hold no alli ance with such persons. as it would be impossible far such to conduct the discussions of that House in that calmness of tone and temper by which they should be regulated.—( Hear, hear, and cheers. ) He did not think the motion of the Hon. Mem ber for Sheffield would remove the difficulty that lay in the way of this questi n ; but it would tend to soften it dos n ; but the mement the present Government put forward :his grant in the shape of a 11111, then indeed it became an endowment of the College of Maynooth.—( Hear, hear. ) He had seen by some of the papers that certain persons supported this measure because it would have the effect, they said, of increasing Protestereism in Ireland if once the priests were well educated. --(Laughter. ) lle would like to kooky, from the Right Hoe. Baronet ( Sir B. Peel), why. if this measure hod been deemed so neces , asy for Ireland, it had not been granted ten sears ago? The Right lion. Baronet had stated that he mad, the concessian because he feared war was impending ; and that, he (Mr. Bernal) should say, wa,. at the very least, an indiscreet speech, for the Right Hon. Baronet had no right to propose the measua e at all, if he did not intend it as a beneficial measure. This question had been reiterated in the ears of the House u4que ad nauscum, and it. would be repeated continually even if the Speaker should live to the age of Methuselah.—(t.Gui 1 iughter. ) He ( Mr. Bernal) contend , l that the state of things at present casting in Ireland eo7:1,1 wit continue. If they wished to in iintain it, they must do so by means of brute force, and not by argument. He thought it was possible for two establishments to exist together in Ireland, but not on the same ground a; they did at present. In parts of Ilheoish Germany the Protestants and Catholics lived together in the utmost !lemony. In parts of Switzerland sad Germane,. it was a frequent thing for the Pro testants to we the temple of worship in the morning, and the Catholics in the evening. It had been said the Catty,- lice of frelani wished for the destruction of the Established Church in Ireland. Ile believed that no such wish existed. He believed that many of the Cabolie Members of that : - louse would not desire to see the E , tablkhed Church in Ireland broken up. He (Mr. Bernal) would support the measure eonseient iou , ly, and fearless of thz result lie believed it would be a beneficial measure, and thereore nothing should deter him from supporting it. Captain GLADSTONE said he wished to speak with all due respect of those gentlemen who, from the place he repre sented, had petitioned the House against this grant Ile be lieved them to be actuated by eenscientious motives ; but, having made up his mind to eupport the grant to Mal no ith, he could not support the prayer of those individuals. He was not ashamed to confess that he Inid felt considerable difficulty in coming to a conclusion on this question. He did not mean to say so far as regarded the mere question of an increase of the errant to Maynooth, for as to the necessity of that he had mad; up his mind; and he thought that the present measure ought not to be considered in that light alone. His convic tion was, that the increased grant was absolutely nece.sary. He had himself visited Mayncoth, and he could confirm the statement which had been made by his Right lion. Friend at the head of the Government, that it was in a disgraceful state, and resembled a deserted barrack more than anything else. They 1110 heard the dvelarations of many who had been (inn n.-cted with this institution that it was not commodious. H• believed that the present state of Maynooth was diiracertil and not creditable to its connection with the State, and that some change ought to take place. As far as regarded the reli gious part of this question, he would say that he had the strongest feeling for the Protestant religion, and he had, he trusted, an equal respect for the religion of his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen. There were those who objected to this grant, believing it to be dangerous to the Church, and to the cause of Protestantism. He confessed that he could not bring himself to believe that this would be the case. If the effect cf th's to asure should be to give a more lib •ral education to those who were hereafter to become the priests of Ireland—if it were to give an increase of comfort to them during their stay at Maynooth, he believed that it would be beneficial to the country, and when those individuals left the College of Maynooth, they would not forget the source from which they had obtained such education and such com forts. It was generally known, that the feelings with which the students at Maynooth left that College were not the most favourable to the general peace and welfare of the country. During his visit to the College of Maynooth—and here he wished to bear his testimony to the courtesy and kindness evinced by the Rev. President of that initit utinn—duringhis visit to that College he put this question to the President, "Suppose a large and more liberal endowment were made to the College of Maynooth, do you think the effect of it would be to in duce the higher classes of the Roman Catholics to send their sons there for the purpose of becoming priests?" and the an swer to that question had surprised him. The answer was, " The higher classes do not exist"—he meant of course that they did not exist in sufficient numbers to fill up the priesthood of Ireland. He (Captain Gladstone) supported the grant, be cause he thoug;.t it would be beneficial to I. eland ; but he felt perfectly at liberty hereafter to vote against any endow ment. He thought the measure had been brought forward at a proper time, and in a proper spirit. He did not believe it had been brought forward through fear, but that it had been pro posed simply to benefit Ireland. But while he said this he would contend for the supremacy of the Protestant Church in Ireland. He cenceived that a prescription of 300 years was enough to establish that supremacy, and should it ever be attacked it would be found that the motto of its supporters was still no surrender. Lord HOWICK slid he agreed to a great extent in what had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Ports mouth (Mr. Baring). He certainly did not concur with him in his concluding observation, but he did agree with him that the motion' of his Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield was not submitted to the House in a convenient form, or on a con venient occasion.—(Hear, hear.) He thought the occasion inconvenient, because undoubtedly it interfered with the pro gress of a Bill, to which he, for one, was most anxious to give the best support he was able. He thought it more inconve nient, because, while the question which his Hon. Friend wished to raise by his motion was the great and important ques tion whether the whole of the arrangements of the Irish Church ought to be remodelled or not, he was of opinion that that question was badly raised upon the appropriation of SO comparatively small a sum as 26,0001. That sum was far too small a practical proposition to bring forward as a test of so great a principle, but, at the same time, as it seemed to be the wish of Gentlemen on both sides of the House, that this question should be considered as clearly in tended to decide the point of whether they were to maintain, b u l n i a th lt e e d re c d, hu a r s c a h t present Ireland a appropriated, ther some propertyo arr arrangement the m en E t st wasa- to be considered—as it was the feeling on both sides of the House, th a t this great question was to be so considered, and t y h i e t s thoelmdivision he was willing w so to upon it w as to be t o a o k o e s n i d o a r s the it test Though oftlehi he felt on the p resent occasion ' very unequal to the ta . sk of address ing the House upon this subject, yet, as it was one upon w hi ch, ever since his e ntrance i nto public lie, he took so deep an in terest, upon which he entertained opinions so strong, mo which every atsmeo x.same light more, il es s i o h g e gt y ha e a a r (t r 1 could'es doe opinionoxt thp allow e e r g ie uh n eo e swt ethic question only nne debate y oe ibr s na e att r dho v ege e t o d ulo t aro o ti ems strengthen engthen Co to hm a ui rg c ch l h o t s e ibno w t i t t o r f d o and without r i e o - s his Right lion. Friend the Member fer Edinburgh Macaulay.) In his unanswerable speech upon the subject Cr. last night, he entirely concurred. He always regarded the maintenance of the Irish Church upon its present footing as contrary to every principle of justice and of policy.—( Hear, hear.) He believed in his conscience that the maintenance of that Church had been the great obstacle to the spread of the Protestant religion in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) . He was so persuaded of the truth of the great principles of reli gion, that he firmly believed if they were given fair play—if they were not weighed down by the injustice of that system with which they were united, they must in the course of three centuries have taken root and flourished on the soil of Ireland as they had done in other countries.—( Hear.) He believed that the Irish Church was the source of that misgovernment and oppression under which Ireland had, for three centuries suffered.—( Hear, hear.) That was the view which he took of the subject, and it was one which he never concealed. When he was in the Government, and was a party to the appropriation clause, he never disguised the fact, that the arguments on which he supported that proposition were argu ments, if pushed to their legitimate conclusion, would have car ried him farther than the clause then proposed.—(Bear.) He never disguised that such was the effect of those princi ples, and if he contended for a proposition that fell far short of them, he did so only because he believed that at that time the Roman Catholics of Ireland were prepared to accept far less than in justice they were entitled to demand.—(Hear, hear.) In the year 1838, when they consented to pass the Tithe Bill without the appropriation clause, he did not conceal the fact that he acquiesced in that de termination of the Government to which he then belonged, not because he altered his opinion of the justice of that clause, but because he felt that the time at which such a compromise might be accepted had gone by. The Right Hon. Baronet opposite might remember that that, and that only, was the ground on which he consented to be a party to the bringin g forward of the Tithe Bill, without the appropriation clause. And he did not value that clause so much for its intrinsic value as for being a tender of part of the just claims of the Roman Catholics ; and, when originally proposed, the Catholics were willing to accept it as a concession, not co much to their interests as to their feelings and their serve of honour, which were wounded by the existine . arrangements. But in IE3B it was obvious to him, from the protracted contest' , on the subject of the appropriation clause, that the time must come when compromise being no longer accept able, a larger and more difficult question must come under discussion. He did not raise the question then, because those most interested in it did not seem to think it an occasion on which it could be advantageously brought forward. But he foresaw that the question would be brought forward; and he never concealed, being then in office, his views on a matter in which he felt that justice required it should be determined. He referred to those things merely to show that when the Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Graham) spoke last night of Government on his side of the House being prepared to go farther now than formerly, he did not do them justice, at least he did not do it to him ( Lord Howick). He would bear him (Lord Howick) witness that his opinions on this subject kad been frankly avowed ; and that he supported those opinions to the utmost of his power.—( Hear, hoar.) After having be fore addressed the House on the subject now before it, and after the speech of his Right Hon. Friend, the Member for Edinburgh, he should not attempt new to point out all the defects of the existing arrangements of the Irish Church. He wished rather to go at once to the practical question as to how the anomaly and injustice of those arrangements were to be met. He had no hesitation in stating his opinion on that point. More than two years ago he stated that the time was gone by when a compromise would be of pre. He firmly believed that if they were contented to accept; the appropriation clause of 1835, they might, for their time at least, maintain without serious inconvenience the Protestant Established Church of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) But they triumphed in their resist ance to that compromise, and the consequence was that they now brought about a state of things, in which he thought a compromise was no longer practicable. He believed that they must now do full justice to the people of Ireland.—( Cheers. ) It was no use any longer to palter with the question. For him self, he would never again be a party to an incomplete and in adequate measure of reform—he would never disturb the country by propesinr a measure which did not go to the root of the evil.—(Hear, hear.) When he said " the root of the evil," what he meant was, that they must deal on equal terms with Catholics and Protestants.— (Cheers.) There must be no distinction—no violent asr et op tion of correctness of doctrine and prior claims to the regard of the State on the part of the Protestants.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Catholic and Protestant interests must in his opinion be considered and dealt with alike.—( Cheers.) That was not the time for discussing the proper mode of doing so, but he would tell them, because he wished to have no concealment on the subject, what, in the present state of his ieformation, appeared to him to be the best mode in which the subject should be dealt with. In the first place, he would save all existing interests.—( Hear, hear.) He would not in any way interfere with those who now enjoyed incomes from the Irish Church revenues— ( Hear, hear)—and, at present, he thought they were bound to draw on the Consolidated Fund of this country for the sup port of the Roman Catholic Church. Under any other circum stances this might be injustice, but he had the strongest opi nion that Ireland herself ought to provide for the religions in struction of the Irish people, as England provided for the In. struction of the English people, and Scotland provided for the instruction of the Scotch 'people.—( Hear, hear.) As a permanent arrangement, he held that it would be what justice required, and they had no right to call on the English people, or on the Scottish people, to contribute to the religious instruction of the people of Ireland.—(llear, hear.) But as a temporary arrangement the case in his opinion was different—he thought it was the fault of the English themselves that Ireland was not in a situeion at once to provide for the religious instrnction o' the Roman Catholics from the Church property of Ireland. It was the prejudices prevailing in this country which prevented a measure from being adopted by which a considerable fund would be already at their disposal. —( Hear, hear.) If the prejudices of the English and Scotch p ogle had not interposed, the appropriation clause would have been careied in 1835 ; and not only that, hut if these prejudices had not interfered—if they had b'en able to deal with the application of the pro perty of the Irish Church as reason and common sense dic tated—his opinion was, that they would not be compelled to fritter ass av and waste that property as they had been.—( Hear, hear. ) They scandalously waited that property—first, by the arrangements of len with reference to bishop' lands. If the property of the Irish Church had not been devoted to unpoeular purposes—if it had not been applied to objects which the general sense of the people of Ireland was against, his opinion was that they could not have so wasted that pro reit y—that if the property of the Irish Church was devoted to the instru-tion of the great body of the people, neither Parliament no: the people of Ireland themselves would have consented to the arrangements made wish regard to the bishops' lands.—( Ilear, hear.) In like manner it was an unjust application of the revenues of the Irish Church which compelled them in 1835 to coreent to a sacrifice of 25 per cent. of that property. As, therefore, that mistake was forced on Parliament by the prejudices—he admitted tl.e honest prejudices—of the people of England and Scotland. the cause of that mistake might fairly fall on those who committed it; and the peaple of England and Scotland ought to pay for a time a' provision for the Catholic Church ; but ultimately, he said, that that provision ought to be supplied by Ireland her self. If he had to deal with the subject, he would say, let the whole property of the MAI Church be vested in the hands of comsnissieners. Let them pay the incomes of existing incumbents, and as those interests fell in, the first charge on the funds would be to make due provision for the Catholic clergy—be said the first charge, because he knew that on his side of the House, as well as on the other, it hod been the custom to say, that the surplus ought to go to the Roman Catholics. He repudiated that notion as altogether unju,t, and said that the Catholics had, in every point of view, the first claim on the funds. They were tl.e majority—they were the poorest, and the property was originally set apart for the maintenance of their Church. Upon another ground they had also a just claim. He thought it was fur the national interest that the Roman Catholic clergy should be provided for, precisely as he thought it for the interest of England that the clergy of England should have an independent provision, without trusting to the contributions of their flocks.—( Hear, hear.) lie thought it of the most essential importance that the clergy of the great body of the Irish people should have ine comes independent of the caprice of those wham they taught. He was most distinctly opposed to what was called the voluntary principle. He was utter,y unable to understand the views Of those who adopted that policy. Gentlemen upon both sides of the House agreed that the State ought to intei fere in support of the education of the people, and that it ought not to be trusted merely to the voluntary efforts of individuals. Large grants were made for education in England, in Ire!and, and in Bcotland ; and he regretted that the unfortunate sectarian feelings which prevailed between Churchmen and Dissenters prevented them from carrying out as far as they might the be nefits of education, the means of which the State was willing to provide. If education, then, ought not to be trusted to the voluntary efforts of individuals, the case was mach stronger against leaving the religious education of the people to the support of voluntary contributions of indi viduals. Why, those who were the least sensible of the wants of religion, were the very persons to whom the advantages of religion were of the most importance, and they were the per sons who would be the least inclined to contribute t• its sup port.—(" Hear, hear," from the Chancellor of the Exche quer.) He was glad to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman cheer that. If the Hon. Gentleman concurred with him in that fe,hrig— if they felt the necessity of providing religious in struction for the people, let him (Lord Howick) ask them in what shape it ought to be provided ? Was it in the shape in which it would be useless, or in a shape in which it would be acceptable ?—( Hear, hear.) Was oughtit for practical supply purposes l i t g h i e o y u s m e e a d n u t e a t t o i o in provide a f i o t rt ? m,to faiff l n f souwr s d, o hthi , inc t gih h m e ii y it uclet, that a t t a ht b e l yr e e tui religious itoi t ru h ys e t h p ee e dm o u p sc l ea e ltv o i eo f sn i r n e waslnand.—( Hear. ) would be thoughtmh o o w s most could p I f o r t t a h n e e y e , in a manner in which it would be most acceptable? Ile was so persuaded of the necessity of such a proposition, that he was ready to find means for it from any source— he was ready to take the money, in the first in stance, from the Consolidated Fund, or from any other fund, for he felt that with regard to the Catholic population of Ire land, it was absolutely necessary to provide for the religious instruction of that country. Why should they compel the peasantry of the most destitute and worst taught country in the world to find the funds for the payment of the religious in struction they received, when there was a magnificent national endowment which he said was theirs by right ? To do that was the moat flagrant violation of justice which England had ever been guilty of.—( Hear, hear.) But if they provided in the first instance for the Catholics, he was perfectly willing also to provide for the Protestants. He was quite willing to meet the assertion, that the Protestant Church was inadequate to its purposes, upon higher and nobler grounds than any that had been alleged. He thought that the property of Ireland should be taxed for the purposes of this Bill, in the amount in which it was relieved in 1838.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that there might be obtained a fund which would meet all the exigencies of the case which had been so strongly put forward, and he concurred with those who had given it its due prominence. But he would ask the Right lion. Gentleman opposite, was he really serious ?--(Cheers. ) Did he really mean to say, that if the Bill were frankly and faithfully proposed to the House, as a measure to satisfy the Irish people, it would be refused?--(Cheers.) Sir It. PEEL—No.--(Cheers.) Lord HOWICK agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet. He was sure that nothing which might equalise the position of re ligions in Ireland would be rejected by the House.—(Cheers.) He thought that all religions in Ireland should be placed upon an equality, and he was sure that the people of Ireland would never be contented with less.—(Cheers.) They had been told that a message of conciliation had been sent to Ireland. What was the tenor of that message ?—( Cheers. ) In weighing the value of that offer, let us consider what it was worth.—( Hear, hear.) Let us only consider what are the real facts of the case. Let us consider that the poorest people in the world were obliged to support the richest priesthood, who preached doctrines—when they preached at all—quite opposite to the opinions, often hurtful to the feeiings, of those who supported them.—( Hear, hear.) The security and safety of the Established Church had always been made the pretext of oppression to Ireland.—(Cheers.) Was it any wonder that animosities should arise ? Would we, as Englishmen, say that there should he sustained in this country by all the powers of the people, and by all the rights of the constitution, a Catholic Church, which the people abhorred, and which was maintained by majorities of troops in one part of the empire, and majorities of votes in another. He would ask the House they s tT he o e u lr should intended suggest Government, to allow him to come back to this question. How could Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite bring this measure forward unless t to o go hneo Hd doubt, further Hon. Baronet Upon? Bhaardo nfee felt tt to oihs consider asret themselves the question whatgq r u eh e a s at t d i obne diffi culties been effect of his speeches upon his own partisans.—(Cheers.) and embarrassments ' from the opposition of their present Hight Hon. Baronetwhich had said that he wouler ' d e e they held when out of office. The piinciples to those that some expression of his Secretary for the Home Department Ise himself if he did not acknowledge was hasty and ill- a d v i se d. B u t h e (Lord Howick) would ask , was it not i ' nionous to the repute tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman himself ? was it not most hurtful to that great empire, of which so large a portion was confided to his care? was it not most hurtful to the dignity of that House, that upon a great question, in which so many in terests were involved, a Minister of the Crown was placed in a situation to hold such language and to make such amendments ? A few short months might bring the Right Hon. Baronet to the distressing alternative of asserting to the House that " I was wrong before, and I am not right now."—( Cheers.) The Right Honourable Baronet had needlessly and wantonly renewed difficulties which were passing away. If they have given to the shadows form and substance, it is not our faults. You (said the Noble Lord) fought with me inch by inch when I asked of you to give this much of concession to the Irish people. Do as you will, you cannot g overn the people. of Ireland as heretofore. For my part, I shall support the amendment.—(Cheers.) Mr. HAMILTON opposed the resolution. A reference had been made to the Blue-book, and he had also made it his business to refer to that Blue-book, and he found that the re presentations which bad been made of the state of the Irish Church were entirely incorrect. He found, by that report, that there were eighty-two benefices in Ireland. He was aware that a distinction was drawn between parishes and benefices—(Hear, hear)—but he found that a great difference existed between the representations of the Roman Catholic party and those who were opposed to them. The Hon. Gen tleman then went into a series of statements respecting eke number and the value of the benefices in the hands of the Pro testant Irish clergy, in order to show that the means at present derived from the benefices and from the parishes possessed by the Protestant clergy were only moderate remunerations for the duties they had to perform. He believed that the propagation of Christian truth was not to be effected by merely human means, and he thought that the success of the Irish Established Church was not to be charged upon it as a deficiency. They had no means for rendering the Irish Church Establishment available for its purpose, and if they considered that this Es tablishment was to be answerable for its effects, he would ask what had been the effects of the Educational Commission ? It was well known that the Educational Commission had failed in effecting all that it desired, and he thought that the promotion of Christianity was not to be effected by any merely human me ans. They had heard a great deal of restitution during that debate.—(Hear, hear.) But what was the case ? At bta the time the Irish Church oined those endowments, it was not in connexion with the Church of Rome. Until that con nexion had been formed, there had been no question as to the possession or the use of the revenues which were attached to the Church. In the time of Henry 11., this connexion had been formed, and had continued for three centuries, but at the Reformation this connexion had been broken, and it was not until all hope had been gone and the allegiance of the popu lation of Ireland was lost to Rome that the Pope had attempted to establish any other Church. Much had been said of the injury offered to the Roman Catholics of Ireland, but he thought that something should be made of the insult offered to the feelings of the Protestant inhabitants of Ireland. The Protestants had always been the main dependence—he might call them the garrison of the Government in Ireland. — (Ironical cheers.) In 1835, at the request of the Minister of the day, the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government, the Protestants of Ireland had readily and in a moment dis solved a confederacy which was dear to them from many recol lections, and in which their prejudices had been interwoven. He did not wish to speak harshly of the Members of her Ma jesty's Government, but he thought it was his duty to warn them of trifling with the feelings of their Irish fellow Protestants. They would, in such a case, find that Protestants would league themselves with repealers—( Hear, hear)—or, what would be as bad, they would see party conflicts—one class naturally exulting in the triumph of their own Church and their own party, and the other bitterly regretting all conces sions made to the rival party, and determined, as far as they could, to thwart any such intentions on the part of the Go vernment.—(Cheers.) These would be the fruits of this motion of the lion. Member for Sheffield, if it were carried —a measure, the result of which would be a subversion of all good feeling, and the substitute of the opposite; exultation on the one hand on account of these concessions being opposed to the antagonist feeling ; on the other side , of deep and fruitless regret and poignant ° disappointment...4 Cheers. ) Mr. B. OSBORNE expressed his sorrow that he had not had an opportunity at an earlier period of addressing the House on thateuleject. He had, however, listened with great attention to the debate, and he could not avoid expressing a doubt that it would exhibit an unsatisfactory spectacle to the admirers of academic rule and of academic education, for they would find the Members who represented the Universities, with but one exception, to a man disinclined to grant this con cession to Ireland, and disposed to battle—nay, to die—in the breach ere the measure should be carried.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman who had last spoken. and who was the re presentative of a decreasing party in Ireland—he meant the Orange party—had threatened the Right lion. Baronet with the enmity of his party—if he persevered in his intentions he had threatened to amalgamate with the rcpealers. Mr. HAMILTON explained. Mr. OSBORNE would accept the explanation as it was given, but when the lion. Member lauded the patriotism and loyalty of the Protestants, and referred them to the times of Archbishop Hunter, hr. ( Mr. Osborne) would carry him to a still earlier period. He would take him to that period in the history of Ireland when Protestants were the abettors of rebel lion, when Wolfe Tone and other Protestants were the leaders of rebellion, and, therefore, he said, away with the cry of Pro testant integrity and Protestant loyalty. The Roman Catholic subjects of Ireland, he would aver, were as loyal as the most Protestant Members in that House.—( Cheers.) If the Honourable Member had but made himself acquainted with the principles inculcated at the College of Maynooth, he would not have joined in raising the senseless cry which had been heard against that Cat hole seminary. He (Mr. Osborne) was much struck with the speech of the Right lion. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government on the preceding even ing. The Eight Hon. B aron et appeared, on that occasion, to be more engaged in the task of defending his own consistency than the character of the Irish Church, sod, with his usual adroitness, he, in the after-part of 'his speech, referred to O'Connell and to the Oregon territcry—to everything, in fact, but the real question before the House, which lie thi•ew over board altogether.—( Hear, hear.) He held in his hand a paler containing the recorded opinions of three of the Right Honourable Baronet's friends—men of great talent and filling a high position—and the first he should refer to would be Lord Brougham.—(Laughter.) He was new sup posed to be of the same party-with the Right Hon. Baronet (Continued laughter.) That Noble Lord said, in speaking of the Establishment in Ireland, " God forbid that the Church should have the same power over its property that individuals Fad over theirs," and he argued that the Church revenues might be legally applied to the purposes of education as the State might think fit. The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the subject of compact, as known and acted on at the time of the Union. What was the Act of Union? It was this. The repreeentativee of a small minority of the Irish people, in order that their Church should be perpetuated, and in conse quence of certain pecuniary reasons, sold the liberties of the Irish nation and the Irish Church. (Loud cheers.) lie asked if the Government were to act upon precedent, why that which was thought good for Canada should not be good for Ireland also ?—( Cheers. ) Why should not the same principle be applied in both countries.—(Heir, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department seemed, in his speech of last night, to have rather mi,represented the opinions entertained by Hon. Members on that side of the lieuse • He seemed to think that they desired the entire subversion of the Irish Church. He e ould answer for himself, and he knew that he could answer for many others, that they desired no such thing. But they could wish that that Church had tried to fulfil the expectations on which it had been originally founded. lie could inform the House that in Ireland there were 218 parishes which contained not one the usefulness of the Established Church Protestant.—( Hear.) 723 parishes had not one Church, and consequently no service at all.—( Hear, hear.) lie could not then help lamenting the ignorance exhibited by Hon. The Hon. Member hail endeavoured a ir t el t a h n e d TimC Ci :b e u er t s n ) o change had taken to carry the House with him by referring to what he called the gil‘nlircrirlii.oebulaesnrspder—crisoldeCcohifienetgirise. reformation. Why, the reformation had There hal been, place in the opinions of the people. The Government and the monarch of that day wanted to seize the revenues of the Irish Church, and this i n n e d v e e e r d t , a a le erne revolution reformation afforded a pod colour for that purpose.—( Hear, hear.) How was that Reformation carried out? In James theFirst's time the Bibles were ordered to be translated into Irish, and an anecdote was preserved of a perser, compl!ining, that in the reign of l a u c tion i n F.lizibeth they had English nobles . and Irish ministers • but in the time of succeeding monarchs, they had Irish nobles and ministers• — English ( Laughter). He was prepared to •men tion, on the autho rit y of the very work quoted by the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for Ireland, that there was no similarity between the Irish and the English Churches. Tha English Church held its temporalities with the sanction of the great. body ef the English people. That was not the case with the Irish Church• existed also a vast difference between the doctrines of the churches. The work observed that the religion of the Irish Church was a species of Puritanism rather than Protestantism. The Church preached a sour morality quite opposed to the liberal tenets of English Divines. What was the language of some of the ministers of the Protestant Church in Ireland ? The Right Rev. Prelate said that the penal laws were for the benefit of the Papists.— ( Hearehea r. ) What was their con duct towards the Right lion. Baronet when he brought in his educational measures? Their language was only worthy of Exeter Hall, and their exclusive University of Dublin. lie would ask the House if it bad ever produced one great man, or one eminent writer ?—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Perhaps some name might be given them by the Noble Lord the Member for Bandon—some little minister eminent in his little sphere, but one name worthy of note had never yet emanated from the Dublin University. lie held in his hand a Government pamphlet, issued from the Government office in Dublin, and entitled " Probate of Wills," and he would take the liberty of reading the whole of it to the House, as it was not very long, to ehow the amount of Church property left by some of the Church dignitaries within the limited period of forty or fifty years. lie found, among other facts stated in it, that the Lord Bishop of Cork left at his deceaoe property to the amount of ...................................... £25,000 The Bishop o f Dromore 50,000 - The Bishop of Limerick... .................. 60,000 The Bishop of Killaloe lO O ,OOO The Archbi s hop o f D u blin ............... 180,(00 The Bishop of T uam .................. The Bishop of R ao h oe 300000 The Archbishop o f A r magh ....... , 350 000 The Bishop of Clogher The Bishop of C as h e l In all an amount of •••••• ••••••• "'£1,935,0 And all this amount, be it: remembered, collected in the apace of forty or fifty years.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") They hadheard various allusions to their not wishing to take the property from the Protestant Church. He did not believe that they wished to take it, nor was it his wish that it should be done, but he wished that that Church should be placed on a better footing. Dr. Doyle, in an examination; before the House of Lords, stated that he had a greater respect for the Established Church than any other Church which differed from the See of Rome, but that he thought that the property was as prejudicial to the Established Church as it was to the Irish people. He remembered the days when a Viceroy was put in Coventry because he agreed in some matters with Mr. O'Connell; and now they were sending messages of peace to Ireland, and dragging at the c hariot-wheels of a convicted eonspirator.—(Cheers. ) He thought that there were very few Honourable Gentlemen at that or the other side of the House who would be Inclined to agree with measures extracted under such conditions. (Hear, hear.) On a late occasion, w h en he (Mr. Osborne) had the honour of addressing the House, it was his intention to have voted against the Hon. Gentl eman's proposi tion, not becau se he objected to the grant, but he objected that it should be taken out of the consolidated fund, inasmuch as the people of this country o bjected to their money being ap plied to the objects o f t h e Roman Catholic Church. Ho was very much shaken in that intention when he heard the speech of the Hon. Member for Kent, who dealt out damnation to all his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen.—(Laughter.) That was what first altered his opinion. It was succeeded by the Hon. Member for Elgio, who claimed the hardihood of a sort of Birmingham Pope—(Laughter)—instead of a Member of the Senate, and pronounced the religion of three-fourths of the population of Europe to be an awful delusion. He could not countenance such a gross insult to the Roman Catholic re ligion. He would tell the Ron. Gentleman that it was better to be Insane in his charity than rational in his malice. He would refer him to: what was said by Burke, that he that dis sented altogether from the Christian religion was most Pro 'tent. He would put it to any dispassionate Member of the House, whether his words were not more words of charity than those which fell from the lion. ,Gentleman's lips ? He would ask the Hon. Gentleman, supposing that by means of that collision which existed between the Alembers of the House, he would say between the extreme voluntaries on his side, anti the extreme inveluntaries on the other side--(Laughter)—this Bill had been defeated, he should like to know what kind of a Government they had reason to expect from the Government that would spring from such a cminexion—semi-bovemque virum semi-virumque bovem.—(Laughter.) The Secretary for the Home Department, in the speech which he made on a late occasion, did more good in softening and conciliating the people of Ireland, than any speech which had been delivered lately.—(Cheers.) The feelings of this country bad been too subservient to Whig and Tory.--( Cheers.) He would beg to state to the House that there would never be an ultimate settlement of the Irish ques tion until the Irish Church was, not subverted, but put on a different footing.—(Cheers. ) Lord BERNARD rose amid great confusion, expressive of a great disinclination on the part of the House to hear. He was understood to say that he would not trouble the House at so late an hour of the evening but for the remarks made by the Hon. Member who had just sat down. He referred to a state ment which he (Lord Bernard) made two years ago. He wished to be allowed to refer to a speech of the Noble Lord the Member for Sunderlanel, in which he asked what would be the fate of the Irish Church, if it were to be determined by a Parliament existing in Dublin. —( Here the noise became so great that the Noble Lord, not being able to obtain a hearing, sat down.) Air. ELLICE said that he rose to set himself right with th House, with respect to a statement of. his Right Hon. Friend e (the Secretary for the Home. Department), in the course of his speech last night. But before he did so, he wished to say in a few words that he would give his cordial support to the pre sent motion. He should be at some loss to do se, if he thought that it would in any way interfere with the success of the mea sure which the Right Hon. Gentleman had introduced to the House ; but inasmuch as he should come to that vote without injuring the progress of that motion, and as he thought it essential upon this—probably the first step in a new course of ecclesiastical; policy with the people of Ireland—to make a protest against making any tax on the people of England to support any ecclesiastical establishment in Ire land, he thought it right, for that reason, to vote for the motion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ward). He need not fatigue the House by going over the grounds upon which he supported this motion. These arguments had been so admirably concen trated in the speech of the Right Hon. Member for Edinburgh, and that speech followed by the declamation of his Noble Friend the Member for the City of London, as well as by the appeal of the Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland, that the whole subject had been completely exhausted. Respecting the Irish Church, against which so powerful a statement had been made, no answer had ever been attempted in any quarter of the House. The Government had stated it was impossible to cope with the opposition of the subject, but they gave no good reason to the House or the country that they had the least security in being able to stand where they were.—(Cheers.) The first step in progressing had been taken, and they must go onwards let who might occupy the reins of Government.— ( Hear, hear.) He had always during the time he had a seat in that House, taken a very active part, and a very anxious interest in the eubject. He was sure that twenty years ago, since he had seconded a proposal of the Hon. Member for Middlesex for going into Committee on the Irish Church ; and he had at that time made the same state ments which the Honourable Member for Sheffield had brought forward. Upon every subsequent debate on this subject he had pursued the same course, and when he became a member of the Government, when his Right Hon. Friend (Sir J. Graham) left the Cabinet, he had avowed the same opinions, as distinct as language could avow them. He could not understand in what part of his speech to the House when the Government of Lord Grey came into power, he had given utterance to principles different to those on which the present motion was founded. It might have been that he then stated that there was no intention OR the part of the Government to take from the Irish Church the means of forming a Roman Catholic Establishment in Ireland. They had not arrived at suilicient information to judge to what purpose or to what extent they would make an appropriation for the Protestant revenue of the Church. But when his Right Hon. Friend left office, a Commission had been issued to overturn the municipal proportions of the different sects in Ireland, so as to enable the Government to advise the Crown with respect to practical measures on this *subject. He forg ot the precise statement then made by his Noble Friend at th e head of the Government (Lord Grey), but he believed that although that Noble Lord had refused to admit the intentions of the Government to apply any surplus belonging to the Protestant Church to any particular object, he maintained the power of the Government to apply the sum to any such purpose which the Govern ment should deem expedient.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to his own language, he recollected well the debate arising on the question respecting the settlement of the tithes in Ireland, brought forward by the present Lord Hatherton, the then Secretary fur Ireland. In the course which he took on that occasion he lamented the loss which the Government had sustained by the retirement of his Right Honourable Friend (Sir James Graham) and his Noble Friend the present Secretary for the Colonies. He thought then, as now, that their retirement, under the circumstances of the case, and on the principles on which they placed it, were detrimental to the course of good government and the progress of liberal opinions with regard to Ireland. The Government then had a large party in the House. The Irish people were then disposed to accept conciliatory mea•ures, and if the Government had gone on in unison as they were in the course of policy in which they had embarked, a state of affairs would now exist in Ireland very different from that which they had the misfortune to witness. In stating his regret at the retirement of his Right lion. Friend raid of Lord Stanley for office, he used these terms:—" For what had the sacrifices—(he alluded to the loss of his two Right Hon. Friends)—been made, but that the Government might be enabled to act on that principle which they avowed with respect to the measure before the House" (it was the Irish tithe question); and upon some ironical cheers comin g from the Opposition side of the' House, " he scarcely knew how to interpret that cheer; but if it meant that the Government were not united, and determined to act consistenily with their declarations; if there was the least difficulty in the principle of the application of the surplus revenue of the church of Ireland to the purposes which had been stated by the Hon. Member for St. Albans, lie should have been the last man to join the Cabinet." That was snffic.ent to show that he had never swerved. To the measure founded on a system of liberality to the people of Ireland he would give his support, and hoped that system would be carried steadily forward. To the first step in that progress, he repeated, he gave his willing and cordial support, protest ing with his Hen. Friend against the principle of taking money for such purposes from other sources than the surplus revenue of the Irish church, and against the principle of abstracting it from the taxe. paid by the people of Great Britain.—(Cho ers.) Mr. E. B. ROCHE said the measure proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet retarding Alaysooth was a good measure as far as it went; introduced, he believed, in a good, and honourable, and kindly spirit—(Cheers)—and for that reason he regretted that the question of the Protestant Church in Ireland should have been brought forward on that occasion. —(Cries of " Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) He regretted it the more, because urged by old and long-enterta'ned prin ciples, he must vote for the motion of the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Sheffield. He thought the question of the Irish Church was not so important a question now as it was a few years ago. It was not regarded by the Irish people with so much anxiety, because, in the first place, the question was overlaid in the Irish mind by ;the more absorbing, and what he believed to be the more important questioh ; and, in the second place, the people of Ireland had seen this question of Church reform what they considered trifled with by parties on that, the Opposition side of the House, be fore—(Hear, hear)—and, therefore, they did not believe that they were sincere in propesino Church reform. He only stated the general feeling among the Irish people. He would be wrong in saying the Hon. Member for Sheffield was not sin cere. There was no doubt about that. But, at the same time, the Irish people take up this question with great gpirit, - and lay it dawn very quietly— ( Hear, from the Ministerial benches) —and, therefore, io their minds, it was not so important a question as it had been. He regretted that the question had been introduced on the present occasion, because he thought it better that the question should be disposed of by itself. He did not know whether the Right Honourable Gentleman the Member for the University of Dublin, and the Noble Lord ( Lord Bernard), were quite satisfied with the aspect which this question of their Church had taken in that House. lie (Mr. Roche) regarded it as an abuse. He deplored the ex istence of that abuse in his country. It was the Church that had been a bone of contention between them ; but he regarded it with most regret as it was the thing of all others which pre vented the party which that Noble Lord repre s ent e d, a n d which he (Mr. Roche) represented, from uniting for the cam mon good of their common country.—( Cheers.) He put it to the Noble Lard, and the Right Hon. Gentleman, if they thought that by remaining in that House, and by keeping the • question in that House, they would keep the Church safe as it existed at present. He asked them to look at the state of parties in England, and consider whether they were likely to get for that Church very flatter ing terms if Hon. Gentlemen on this side of the House should come into power. Let them well consider this—whether Irish men in Ireland could not settle that itnportant question more equitably for both parties —more permanently, and more honourably than by coming over to this country, which the lion. Member for the University of Dublin admitted in his speech to be a " foreign country." The Hon. Member for the University, in his argument in support of the Church in Ireland, said—" Take from us the Church and you have the support of the party whir.: I repre sent ;" which party, said another Hon. Gentleman, was a fo reign garrison, existing in a foreign and hostile country. He confessed he listened with some humiliation when he heard his fellow-countryman obliged to make such a confession, Mr. HAMILTON—I said a hostile, not a foreign country. Mr. ROCHE—The Hon. Gentleman said he did not say foreign ; and, therefore, he retracted that expression, but still it was a British garrison existing in a hostile country. Now, he said this hostility was all on one side, for the prople of Ire land did not regard the English party there with hostile feel ings. They only regarded their prejudic es w ith h ost ili ty, and perhaps with contempt ; - but they did not regard their fellow countrymen in any hostile spirit, and many of them, formins , a large party in Ireland, hoped that a blessed clay would come, when they would all be united for the common good of their common country. But he would turn from that question. The Right Hon. Baronet, as he had previously admitted, had brought the question forward in a good and fair spirit ; but let him remind the Right lion. Baronet, that all the support he had received from the Opposition side of the House, did not originate from a sacrifice of party to principle. Honest men supported that motion because it was just ; men who were not honest supported it because it was expedient. He heard in this country, among the lower grade of the Whig party, murmurs and reports of a coalition. He found them in dulging in the pleasing dreams of one day seeing the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London, and the Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury hob-nobbing at a Cabinet dinner. What a scene it would be for that talented gentleman, who styled himself the historical painter' of the House of Commons. He would have the old story of Antony and Octavius dividing the empire amongst their fellows. But did they suppose Ireland would acquiese in this course? Did they think Ireland would be contented with this paltry bribe to sacrifice the cause in which she had em barked? Now he told the Right Honourable Baronet in a candid spirit, that such would not be the case. They %mild not be able to quiet Ireland by this single mea sure —no, they must give ample and full justice. ,Ireland was embarked in a cause which she thought was just and good, and they believed they were entitled to a domestic Legislature. He knew perfectly well that he was vainly attempting to advo cate a cause whi la had no friends in that House ; he trusted that Hon. Members would permit him to tell them, that their attempting to treat with an individual would not satisfy Ire land. They must recollect that lately a body of men had sprung up in Ireland, who commanded the con& deuce of the people of Ireland, and who would not be satisfied with this measure. Ilovv were thesementialled into existence? Why their existence was de rived from a certain declaration which a Lord-Lieutenant made with regard to repeal in Ireland. That person proscribed any one entertaining repeal opinions, and declared that they,were to be excluded from o ffi ce. To say the least of it, be thoug ht t this was an unworthy declaration. It was as much as otosalle " I believe you . are to be bought, and if you . ar e . hwl the m biiught, here is my price." But these men y polities .of the people with them, and he said again they must have something more than this measure before they would be satisfied. He was not going at that late hour to enter at any length into this question, but if Government had any wish that it should be settled peacefully and amicably, they must enter upon the consideration of it at once, but he could assure them that nothing short of what he had stated would satisfy Ireland. Lord PALMERSTON did not intend to go into the ex traneous topics which hail been introduced in the course of the debate—" sufficient for the debate was the question thereof." If his lion. 'Friend had brought forward his motion under the circumstances, and in the same circumstances in which he first gave notice, he should have felt it to be his duty to vote against it, unwilling as he had been to take any step which could by any remote possibility have impeded the Government Bill, which, to a certain extent, had been carried ; but the course which the Right lion. Gentleman bad since taken, had enabled him (Lord Palmer ston) to give the motion his support. The question the Hon. Member had now brought forward was this, Whether there was not another fund from which the grant proposed by this Bill could not be supplied? The Hon. Member had originally asked why should not the grant be takea from the Consolidated Fund ; but he had altered his motion, and he now asked, why not procure it from the funds crea ted by the reduction of the Irish Church establishment ? He ( Lord Palmerston) would have voted for the motion for supplying the grant from the Consolidated Fund, if he had persevered in it ; but he (Lord Palmerston) would prefer that this money should be taken from the other source, and there fore he would give his vote in favour of that proposition. The first question the House had to consider was, could there be a surplus of Church funds sufficient to meet this demand, after providing what was necessary for the support of the Protestant Church established in Ireland ?—( Hear, hear.) He did think that no person, who had heard the statements made upon that subject, but would feel satisfied that ample funds would still remain for the proposed measure, after providing in the most ample manner for the Protestant Church.—( Hear.) Then, he would ask,,had this house authorised the Govern me, tto make this grant? He should say that no Member, who had voted for the Church Temporalities Act, could dio rite that the House had that power. The resources of the Church, it had been admitted, were at the disposal of the State, who held them in trust for certain uses ; if that were so, then, he would contend for it, that those who had brought in the Church Temporalities Bill should make such use of this surplus fund as it was quite apparent it was intended for. On those grounds, then, he would vote for the endowment of the College of Maynooth out of this fund.— ( Hear ' hear.) He knew he would be met by the statement that this would be going a step beyond the appropriation clause, and that granting a sum for education in Maynooth from this source would be granting money for the exclusive education of Roman Catholics. But he contended that the Church Temporalities Bill did not repudiate such an applica tion of the funds, for they were intended for the purposes of general education of the Irish people,, the great majority of whom were Roman Catholics. If, then, it should be found that the Established Church did not require the'aps lication of the whole of those resources, then he would feel no difficulty what ever in applying them to aid the religious instruction of the people of Ireland.—( Cheers.) In Ireland there were eight millions of people, of whom seven millions were Roman Ca tholics. In Ireland there was a large Church establishment, which educated about one-half of the Protestants of that coun try, and the State paid, by a grant, for the religious instruction of the ether half; and was it then possible that this House could contemplate six and a half millions of the poorest portion of the people of that country reviving religious instruction from their clergymen, who were dependent for their support upon what they received by going from door to door, and from farm to farm, to collect the means of eseetence?—( Hear, hear.) Whatever might be the result of this discussion, depend upon it, this country would be compelled, sooner or later, to adopt some such measure.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") For a long while party prejudices would not permit this ques tion to be brought forward ; in the meantime it had been freely discussed outside, and at length the force of argument had become so strong as to produce a react ion, and then the Government came forward with their measure ; but they came when the time had gone by—they came forward when their spontaneous offering appeared not what it was, but as a sur render to fear, which he was sorry to see, and which he felt assured the Right HAn. Baronet opposite (Sir R. Peel) did not intend.—( Hear, hear.) However, he did hope that this impression would not have the effect of deterring the Govern • ment from the path they had resolved on to pursue, in regard to the prosecution of other means of conciliation which he be lieved they had in contemplation. —( Hear, hear.) There were many other questions of a conciliatory character to Ireland which he hoped to see brought forward, and the carrying out of which would soon prevent the use of such expressions as " a hostile nation" applied to England.—(Cheers.) But if the Government imagined that this alone would be sufficient to ac complish perfect tranquillity in Ireland, they would find their mistake, for there this would be looked upon as a measure yielded to fear, and not elicited by conviction.—( Cheers.) Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT—Sir, I mean to say a few words before the debate closes, and they shall be very short. I shall not enter into the question of the Protestant Church Establishment, and I will make no further allusion even to the motion the Hon. Member for Sheffield has brought forward than to say that I deeply regret that this question should have been brought forward now—first, because I think that it will be little understood ie Ireland, and next, that it is introducing for discussion between the leading parties of this House abstract principles which have no reference to the measure before the House, .any also because the only influence of this motion, if successful, must be, of course, to destroy -the measure before the House. I should have thought this system of introducing the assertion of principles into the discussion of particular mea sures had already led to so much inconvenience in the hands of the Honourable Gentleman himself, that he would have been the last person to have proposed such a course; Look to that measure which was admitted on both sides of the House to have been of paramount necessity for the tranquillisation of Ireland—the nesure, fur the settlement of the tithe question. Look to the annual attempts that were made to introduce that suicidal clause, which long delayed the settlement of that question. Bus, Sir, I have risen on this occasion more especially to call the attention of the House to the statement which was made last evening and repeated again to-night, in spite of the emphatic contradiction given to it by .my Right Hon. Friend, namely, that this measure had been brought forward, not from any sense of justice, not from any preconceived opinion as to its fitness for the state of Ireland, or the effect it might have on the tranquillisation of that country, but that it had been extracted by fear and alarm, created by the Oregon question.—(Cheers.) Sir, I think it was shown by dates last night that this measure was contemplated—nay, more, that it was already put into shape long before the question arose re specting the Oregon territory.— (Cheers.) It was announced long before any suspicion was excited in this country with regard to the territorial boundary of North America, or that any rup'ure was feared. It was stated further that the Bill had been actually drawn, and Roman Catholic prelates con sulted so far back as November last. Nay, I may say more. During the last session, when the discussion took place on the vote for education, and likewise for the grant to Maynooth, on the introduction of the subject the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Waterford (Mr. Wyse) called the attention of the Government to academical education in Ireland, and my Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Governmennt, in answer to that speech, said the subject had already been under the consideration of the Goverment ; that only the lateness of the session, and his unwillingness to bring on so important a measure fur the prosperity of Ireland, had prevented them bringing forward the measure. I can go back to a still higher slate because a communication was made to me by the Government on the subject of this measure. I ray, therefore, that nothing can be more contrary to the fact than that any unworthy motive had actuated the Government —a motive, I think, disgraceful to the character of her Ma jesty's Government, and one which 1 am anxious to repel, not only because I think it would produce a most unfavourable impression as to the character and con luet of the Government, but would greatly diminish the good effects to be anticipated from this measure. I very much regret that the Right lion. Gentleman the Member for Edin burgh, forgetful of all these facts, has studiously tried to fix this imputation on the Government. I regret this much, be cause it appeared to me that the Right lion. C.:gentleman was thinking less of the benefits this measure might produce in Ireland, than of the degree of party strife it might cause.— ( Cheers, and counter-cheers.) I perfectly understand those cheers, but, I must say, that I drax a great distinction between the course the Whig party has pursued on this occasion, and that which they formerly pursued. I am as willin g as any man to acknowledge any disinterested support of theGovern merit. I must say, however, that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh has taken a course diametrically opposite to that which was taken by the Noble Lord, and has endeavoured studiously to flit a charge of inconsistency on the Government, and in such a manner as might be calculated to injure the success of this measure in Ireland. Let it go forth to Ireland that this mea sure has been extorted by fear, and all its advantages wib be lost. If through that cause the measure should be ineffective for tranquillising Ireland, the responsibility will be with the Right Hon. Gentleman. lf, on the contrary, the anticipa tion of her Majesty's Government shall be realised—if the, measure does produce tranquillity—if it should have the effect of attaching the feelings of the Roman Catholic priest hood—if it does carry out the views of her Majesty's Go vernment, then the Right Hon. Gentleman will have thi s consolation, that it was not for want of his opposition that the measure had not failed in tranquillising Ireland.—( Hear. ) I allude to this .because I think we ought not to admit the claims of the frequenters of Conciliation Hall in the success of this measure. 1 have already stated that this measure was first announced in answer to a speech of the Right Hon. Gen tleman the Member for Waterford, and that it has arisen from no sudden external cause whatever. This measure is to be attribu'ed to those gentlemen in Ireland, and those Roman Catholic prelates, who not fearing the consequences, and ex posing themselves to great obloquy, and great misrepresenta tion, and great abuse, no , .ily.stayed aloot from agitation and refused to have any partnership in measures which they dissappraved of. The Government were determined to bring forward this measure, not as a bribe, not as a concession, but as a measure which they believed to be right—and they bring it forward because they believe it to be right, arid because they believe and know that there are Roman Catholic Gentle men, and Roman Catholic prelates, who are most anxious to give their influence in promoting the prosperity and good order of Ireland.—( Cheers.) I undertook to say as few words as possible. I was anxious to vindicate the Government from this charge which has been made against them—to vindicate them from the charge of inconsistency in bringing forward this measure, a measure which they supported when in Opposition, and which they now carry out when in office ; and I was anxious, likewise, to vindicate them from the impu tation of this measure having been extorted from them by menace and fear, and by the dread of a hostile foreign country. It was a sense oijustice which prompted them to put it forward, and I beg the House to recollect, that when agitation was ripe in Ireland,that was not the moment the Government chose for bring ing, this measure forward. It was after the law had vindicated itself, and a comparative state of tranquillity had been established that they did feel it their duty, in conformity with their declara tion, that they would govern Ireland with impartiality, justice, and conciliation, to bring forward this measure in redemption of that pledge, and I trust that it will be received in Ireland in the same spirit in which it has been conceived, and whatever thrers the Government may receive from Exeter-Hall, or from the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, neither oae nor the other will deter the Government from pur.. suing that course which they conscientiously feel to be neces sary for the tranquillity of Ireland.—( Cheers. ) Sir H. W. BARRON rose amidst loud cries of " Oh, oh !" "divide, divide." He said he would not detain the House for many moments at that late hour of the night—but being the only Catholic Member from Ireland who had risen during the pre ibilt debate, he was anxious to explain the reasons upon which he would give his vete ; and he trusted the House would ex tend its indulgence to him while doing so.—( Hear, hear.) He bad always been an open, firm, decided, and manly oppo• nent of the present Government; but when he saw them changing the principles upon which they acted when in Opposition, he tendered them his own thanks, and the thanks of his constituents. Seeing the spirit in which the Government were disposed to act towards Ireland, he could not consistently vote for the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield. —( Hear.) He thought it would be gross ingratitude towards the Government, if he welt to vote for the motion. That motion was most inoppor tune and ill-timed, and taken in connexion with the measure of the Government, he could not conscientiously support it. He would not answer the taunts and abuse which had been cast upon the Roman . Catholics by p e titi ons and speeches in that House. They exhibited little of charity or religion. He was glad that in the meetings held" in Ireland, no such calunmious or abusive language was heard. If the Right Hon. Baronet followed up the measure for the endowment of Maynooth by other measures, he would find that no part of the British do minions might be more easily governed than Ireland.—(Hear.) _ s d Mr. HINDLEY rose amidst loud cries of " " Oh, oh." lie could assure the House lie did not 1.1 , of make a speech.— ( Hear, hear.) lie rose for th e purPesss.. asking whether a division would take place on the fir st Fru it po a tion the Speaker would put fro n the chair, a nd whether,toini, voted against the proposition, looking at it in its siniele tees al and supposing that he was determinedly hostile to the msn,o- Bid, whether he was bound to give a negative to the Pr°r tion that the Speaker do leave the chair ? The House then divided, when there appeared — For the motion l4B Against it Majority against the motion ...... On our being re-admitted to the gallery, w e found in Sir R. H. INGLIS on his legs addressing the He answe R. r to PEEL ques ti saidon from that it who was•his wish that they su m, s. e o ld ge Sir c . into Committee, and that the Chairman should report Presir „ osis Of course they would go into Committee again to-taa rr l s otcli day), after he had made his statement with respec t t° line of banking. He was most anxious to give a general °lOttiSit that measure, in fulfilment of a pledge given to t h ? d oss Members wile were interested in the question. If that o f the skin on that statement were not prolonged the suiSP - Maynooth grant might be taken afterwards. Sir R. H. INGLIS thought Monday the better dal% n ine Sir R. PEEL was of opinion that as they had a lreal the y days' debate upon the subject , it would be better dis ci „ should get through the subject as soon as possible. lieLoar the circumstances he should feel it his duty to bring the - forward to-morrow. s s , same Colonel t^IBT HO RP—Although he 'had voted in h. :4 re lobby with the Right Hon. Baronet, did not do so ou`s` re did spent to the Right lion. Baronet or to his measures. ' not like the principle of expediency on which the WO Baronet seemed to found his measures. subject Mr. HUME would wish to say a few words on the Ai •d n ot of Scotch banking, when brought on tomorrow'bu""after object to the Maynooth question being proceeded wit' wards. Sir ROBERT PEEL said he would not bring forwar d tbe Maynoeth question after nine o'clock.—( Hear, hear.) un til Mr. LA W thought they should not proceed with it it to Monday, and begged of the Government to p ost e ° that day. hol Sir R. PEEL declined acceding to the proposal ;4 - eor been asked not to brine . it on after nine o'clock, and ",fione. genial, but he would' not consent to a greater Peil' ment.—(Cheers.) Lord NORTHLAND protested against any factious(); sition being given to the Government—he would not k° self to it. • ht se Mr. C. WOOD thought the measure might be hrollgis bo to-morrow after the Scotch banking question, vr hidi so ° 5 OlO only, as on former occasions, a mere outline by a Me lchor° Government. t Sir R. INGLIS had understood that the Governoseepior consented to postpone the further progress of the Bill tits' day, after the House going into Committee pro for," -- , coo night.—( No, no.) A strong feeling prevailed oat of au'as the question, and he hoped the Government would cow' postponing it to that day. sin Mr. PLUMPTRE denied that any factious opros1"--whisP been raised. In consequence of the rapid movenseati ,00tto had already been made, it would' e more preferable to Pas's Os the sitting of the Committee on the Bill to ilext Mo odal'itiois at the same time repudiated anything like factious °Pr' as far as he was concerned. in y . tbit Lord J. RUSSELL did not think that there w as -,104 oil like fictions opposition displayed ; the Bill had been es'opfot as fairly as possible.—(Hear, hear.) As he did riot d oe that a long discussion would arise on it ; he sots lid that they should go into Committee to-morrow. sset tl w Lord NORTHLAND having stated that he only tits he would be no party to factious opposition, " a rid t" The House went into Committee, pro forums' Speaker got leave to sit to-morrow in Committee. , , TliE INFEFTMENT (SCOTLAND) BI I "'" . This Bill was read a third time and passed. s a of, the The other orders of the day having been dispos House adjourned at One o'Clock. 1 1° MR. LANGFORD'S ADDRE S S THE SUB-AGENTS OF KENT- nr itisi t GENTLEMEN—As Messrs. Morison, of t he leas ed College of Health, New-road, London, have been P „Stet' to appoint me their general agent for North JOn'ilbeir residing ten years in Strood as agent for the sale i g aa valuable medicine, you will expectme to saysoraett.,oo. the subject. 1 have had to contend with a host 0 , 1 1 je inks, euch as chemists, doctors, &c., all interess of keeping the truth from the people, and the?,. l 7b ' eo ' ll, course, poured forth a torrent of abuse against alas of Mr. Morison, viz.:—that an impurity in than is the cause of all diseases ; that such it»puritY casat be eradicated by proper vegetable purgation ; •f oe human being or animal body has too much blooosei "and that it is much more agreeable to nature to clean P re ° , purify in the proper way, than to take tvaY,, t 0 03 ,1 ' cious stream of life by the Linea—thus at once uce„„, ib our own doctors. Such a theory no doubt cuts I"iraters trade of the doctor I I Of late years a host of wo rlOs have sprung up, who have pirated Mr. Morison s called) and under his theory have pushed forth their W d jpe: valuable medicines, but the greatest humbug 311ket sition of all is cc Parr's Life Pills," since it i s tt j" - rofe' Parr never made a pill in his life, and it cars b e that he could neither read nor write, and Ilev er v ut t he will, having nothing to leave; so that the storY e r f r ol Clergyman finding his will is all a lie and forg e b ) s 4a beginning to end, and 'would never have hee i ! s c" but for Munson.i Examine the sellers of por obug. As this point, and you will at once find out the li t efts give regards regards the efficacy of the Ilygeian medicin w ho reference to persons in my own eeighboulb°° ' ho s bet' taken them with the best results. So vario us w ore', the cases, and some of them of that desPerte,olictet:: that from my experience I would say to the t )'°' il ° never despair, though given up by doctors , jo have given Morison's Pills a fair trial." I intvi"' o sa short time to publish a list of cases of cure in s in neighbourhood, and if you, as agents, can forwar“,"- this work of humanity ('Or we are all intereste d ° oil great question), by sending me any cases of c ure , of , shall be inserted with mine.—Yours, most respec‘r° JOHN LANGFOIW' General Ilygeian Agent, Stu° od °Il A t JONATHAN SHARP.—In the prese nt stab° ° f or . relations with America, any work wh'cli s hould tL i ce es , us an insight into the true character of the I ,'' ; from unquestionable sources, must be vary de',`ll:l,ida and this, we have heard, has been done af ter ` that cannot fail of producing great effect i n this eu,bao in a new publication bearing the title of Ji);:rr-ittee Sharp ; or, the Adventures of a Kentuckian. ' by Himself." Report speaks of this narrative aght, tN veying the most extraordinary picture ever hreug.totr fora the English pliblic of the recklessness a nd l4 th e dente of Brother Jonathan, especially as regar,,T, the state of affairs in Texas, the proced.ings Mexicans, with the Indians, ' and other interer, titulars illustrative of things as they are throug"tZ eri' States. As these revelations proced frorn 'fthei can, they are of course from good authority ; a n 04 are said to comprise a series of adventures a) he r o 01' that "Jonathan Sharp" has every probability of , i Irl" ing as popular a character as his distinguished °- man " Sam Slick." AO: M. TRIERS' HISTORY OF THE CONSUtr".l!Orittil'e", EMPIRS OF FRANCE.—The Third Volume of Campbell's authorised English Translation of b - 14 15 , 1 Pc b portant Sequel to M. Thiers' " History of th e f - e viei Revolut:on, ' haljust appeared. The Vines, i° "; - 0 0 ing this work, observes that " The Pub liclit ila i l M. 'rhicrs' History of the Consulate and th e Is an event of an interest not confined to the r' r e th la e iterature. The charms of so facile a style , th e the; of Lo lucid a narrative; and the abundtince of i t ' ; ti v , e l. ' tm and hitherto unexplored materials, place o ' 3 lol o ' amongst And if the most important productions of i ' ut ,cos ,sl . the policy, the glory, and the evil of the, to thie late and Empire are here deliberately subjecVa judgment of the" sparld, perhaps the future P c . s l ; - 10 : 6 prosperity of Europe depend on the spirit on wh it OP' past transactions are reprobated or applae• 111 v tared or condemned." The sale of this work,' 3,0 derstand, has been truly extraordinary in 1.1413 4 11 ta its well as in France. What has no dbt, intro Ern in this country is the circumstance u of t h el lls lish Authorised Translation bein •published a t c" I 10 shillings per volume, each containing m atter - eq:b il eslr 500 st a ordinary Bvo. pages; thus forming one of the -.it° ea t, as well as most important works ever pre SeatLL the British public. de' a c - ;0 Spring with its effects on the complexion stitution generally.—The system of every P er- b t l it more or less affected at this period of the yeE 41. ,',., to A , - obviate these seeming natural accompaninien"" stu dy climate like our own, has been a subject f,. °l : v h)"•, - hitherto unfathomed by even our most el:114 1 ' 4i "; beec clans and practitioners. An article has, howe' re- ;a 31 1 , recently imported into this country from Clain tt :pr fo l e fast gaining celebrity, which proves to be a ins obviate to _cutaneous afflictions generaliPs only„.' substance is a white powder prepared front h e C hine s " of a most harmless nature, and is Called by't-, e ,„, 0 vi, ) „ " Meen Fun" or Celestial Skin Powder. ce have not yet experienced the comfort of its app- 000 should do so without delay, In addition t".; tli , c he 4 ‘„t i l inestimable qualities, it will be found to render. al bf delicately white, smooth, ar d soft. Sold re t3l ;.a. et , c"' perfumers and, chemists, in boxes 3s. 6d. and " 1 1 and wholesale by the sole proprietors, Fabian , 111 „ ( 0 10 11 ' (late Watson, Fabian, and Co.), 24, Mark lane , - "; 1 1i0 e. without whose signatures on the label none arc g e int itty' THE ROTUNDA.—After undergoing ma g Y.,„.oo ,° :; tions, this building, in the Blackfriars-road, celebrated latctf sion as the Surrey Library, Leverian MuseuM s : and m ore ut to the scene of the blasphemies of Carlile and Taylor, IS rv/ 01' opened as a branch of the Government school bodesig n House. . — ,i . . BIRTHS. " On the 22d inst., Mrs. T. K. Kingdorb., _ o f Acacia- 4 ° a 1 , John's-wood, of a son. - tell' ~ #e,, On the 22d inst., the wired Andrew Murray, -(l ,,diat wich- common, prematurely of a son, which died inig t " . Ve after birth. ~ On the 23d inst., at Rochfort Villa, Gloucester-04' 0 ' gent's-park, Mrs. R. J. S. Todd, of a sein.' w if ° o 1 On the 22d inst., at St. John's-wobtl-road, the . Phillips, Esq., of a son ARRIED. CP On the 23d inst, at S M t. George's, Hanover-WI:0 T; mander George Hope, Royal Navy to Kat herine '5 13 eldest daughter of William Leyeson-Gower, Esq. ~ jo', On the 23d inst., at St. George's Hanover-sclu a '', e ' a t ie'' Hubbard, Esq., of Bow, Middlesex, to Mrs. Re be- _„...- demon, widow of the late Peter Henderson, Est /' 0 4 Dior). bor , t• On the 12th inst., in London; aged 28, afte r a s tbe 11° i' painful illness, Orange Webb Fraser, third sou of orta lti A. G. Fraser, Edinburgh, in hope of a glorious ;On Esteemed in life, regretted in death. P4' On the 20th inst., at Frome, aged 6 2 , Francis Ail,e,,%'rricS" On the 21st inst., at Guildford, Surrey, Wil!iam PP late ton, Esq., late of Clapham, Surrey. the On the 21st inst., at Islington, Ann, widow of :.iu rs .... r. job Charles Hodgson, Esq. On the 23d inst., at Earn-terrace, Kensington, Aylwin, Esq. . . rb illiP t. At Bath, Caroline Reltiagle, daughter of the la 4 Reinagle, ILA. -- _____...so .4 " * . . 0 r , f ----_,r---_,--2,-±-2--- .- , -- ', ---- -- - -",,, - )0 51 , , ,, g, Loudon: Printed and Published by . MURDO O. '' n f No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun 01E 0 1 03 01 - Strand, in the Prtabact of the Savoy. in th e Kiddleau, Friday, April 25, 1845. THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 25. 1845. Cl Part alder Lave b Conn and m distriu John 1 Juno Johu I John 4 The c The II ilmr) Julyi Thi lines ham, Trent cllet tort, ton the d T 1) th e lines hit 1 1i1 (.a