The Sun. — London, England, 1850-02-09 00:00:00

a nature that they should be prohibitory against the produce and manufactures of other countries. He thought that was called for in return for the protection and defence which this country gave them. But next, as to the mode of government. It appeared to him that as a general rule they could not do better than re:er to those maxims of policy which governed our ancestors on this subject.—(Hear.) It appeared to them that whereever Englishmen went they should enjoy English f cee d om —(Hear, bear)—and have English institutions. (cheers.) They acted justly and wisely. They acted, be b e li e ved, for the immediate harmony of the mother country and her colonies. On this sub. ject let them see how they stood. He had in his hand a declaration of a number of gentlemen—he thought some twelve or fourteen Members of that House, and some three or four Peers of the other House of Parliament—in regard to colonial policy. The question of those gentlemen forming themselves into a Committee, and putting themselves in communication with the colonies, is one which I consider of very dubious character.—(Great cheering.) In their character as Members of both Houses it was perfectly competent for them fairly to declare what their views and opinions were, and to call upon us to show our reasons for dissenting from them. If they had done that he (the Noble Lord) should not have complained. They say it is right to grant to the colonies power to administer their own affairs, and teat the colonies, which were at the present either for esil in their population, or were forming it, should have the perfect management of their own matters. They stated that there were the North American colonies, the South African, the Australian colonies, Van Die men's Land, and New Zealand. He would take these in order, and state what had been the policy of the Govern ment regarding them. With regard to the North Amer can colonies, he would take Canada. In 1828 there were very grave dissensions between the Ministers of the Crown and Canada. The Ministers of the Crown thought that they were justified in applying the money of the Canadas without asking their consent. Mr. Huskisson proposed an inquiry into the matter. Parliament spent much time in the discussion of it; Committees sat and C omm i ss i ons were ap pointed. Soon after that an insurrection broke out in the Canadas, and blood was shed there. The Government afterwards proposed the union of the two provinces to give ample power to the Legislature. The popular party of Canada wished that the Ministers should be of that party to which the majority belonged. When Lord Glenelg held the seals or the Colonial-office, Mr. Baldwin, who he believed was now in office in Canada, came over to England, and as Lord Glenelg could not see that person, he wished that he (Lord John Russell) should see him. They met with the feeling that each would have widely different ideas, but after mutual con versation they found that they perfectly agreed—in fact, that they had arrived at nearly the same results with respect to the government of the colonies. That go vernment had been conducted of late years in conformity with what he belived to be the opinion of the people of Canada. When Lord Elgin found that the Ministers in office had not a majority in the Legislature, he proposed that they should go to an adverse vote or dissolve the Assembly. They chose the latter, and a dissolution took place. The elections, however, gave a still greater majority against these Ministers, and Lord Elgin there fore placed the government in the hands of their oppo nents. Nothing could have been more fairly carried • out. He (Lord J. Russell) had, however, seen bitter complaints as arising oat of the matter; and he had seen that some persons even proposed that the United Province of Canada should be annexed to the United States. To that proposition the Crown and its advisers could give nothing but a decided negative; and though such a proposition had been mooted, he trusted, from the character of those persons who belonged to the association, that it was not their intention of placing themselevs in connexion with a neighbouring state by force of arms; but that knowing the determined will of the Sovereign of this country and her responsible advisers not to per mit such an annexation, they would acquiesce peaceably in the desire of the Crown. He (Lord J. Russell) won dered also, how any persons professing l o y a l ty could entertain such a project—a project which, in the event of any international difference between England and the United States of America, would place them in the posi tion of being opponents to her Majesty, and cause them to fight against the British flag.—(Hear, hear.) Such was the present condition of Canada. If the ministers were sustained by public opinion and the Majority of the Assembly, they would remain in office; but, on the con trary, when they were no longer sustained the Governor- Generel would take other advisers as a matter of course. With respect to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, the legislative body was the same as the executive. But when Lord Glenelg held the colonial seals a change was made in the Executive and Legislative Council in such a manner as to conciliate the opinion of the provinces and to command the majority of the Legislative Assembly of Nova Scotia. And he had not heard of late years of any of those unhappy dissensions which used to prevail when the Executive Council was found in a small minority. With respect then to Canada, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia, the principles those gentlemen wished to intro duce had already been carried into effect there. The consequence had been, and must be, that fewer ques tions had been brought before the Secretary of State for the Colonies than used to be the case, relative to official misconduct and to local affairs, which, of course, were difficult and embarrassing for a Colonial Secretary to decide. These matters, it appeared, were now settled in the colonies, and the government was carried on with less resort to this country than before.—(llear.) He would now revert to the South Alrican colonies. The chief of these colonies was the Cape of Good Hope. With respect to the colony of the Cape of Good Hope, of lste years there has been a good deal of discussion as to the expediency ( f introducing representative govern ment. Lord Stanley, when Colonial Secretary, had the question under consideration, and without absolutely re fusing to introduce representative;:overnment, that Noble Lord pointed out the many difficult circumstances which had to be considered before a decision could be arrived at. Tnese and other difficulties had been dis cussed by the present Governor, the Chief Justice, and others of competent knowledge, and the result was that the Government bad come to the decision that represen tative institutions should be introduced into the Cape of Good Hose colony.—(Hear.) With respect to the re presentative assembly and change of franchise, those were matters he would not now enter into, as they were in the hands of men who were better able to judge of their expediency. He would, however, say that the re presentative assembly would be chosen from persons possessing a certain amount of property, and otherwise qualified as in the case of Canada.—(Hear, hear.) But when a question arose as to the formation of a Legisla tive Council en the model of other colonies, her Majesty's Government cattle to the conclusion, instead of imitating the constitution of Jamaica or Canada, it would be ad visable to introduce such a provision -as would place the power of electing to a seat in the Legislative Council in the ban& of persons having a higher position and quali cation than representative assembly electors. These, he conceived, might be persons named by the Crown, of weight and influence in the colony, such as magistrates, and others selected by the muni cipel council as entitled to fill the highest offices in the colony. It was proposed that the representative assem bly should have a duration of five years, and the legisla tive council of ten years; but half of the number to be elect .d at the expiration of every five years. Something like a constitution of this kind, though differing in a few particulars, wag the practice in Belgium. Instead of an hereoitary council and elective council, there were two chambers, the duration of which was eight years, half to be elected every four years. Of course the experiment was new, and it would be presumptious on his part to say it would entirely succeed. But an order in council had bean passed ; and that order in council, and instructions thereupon founded, would be sent out to the Cape; and any amendment to the details which might be deemed re quisite could be considered at the Cape before the 'mea sure obtained final sanction. The next colonies to which those gentlemen referred were the Australian colonies, Van Diemen's Laud, and New Zealand. With respect to the Australian colonies, the Bill which he proposed the chairman should obtain leave to bring in will disclose the intended legislation of Parliament on the subject. The me asure he proposed to introduce was nearly the same as that of last year. It was not on the principle of having a council and assembly, in imitation of the go vernment of this country, though this was the most 'popular sort of system in the colony. He proposed there should be a council, two-thirds of which were to be representatives sent by the people, and one-third named by the governor. The reason for adopting this proposal was that, after a great deal of deliberation, it was the plan already adopted years ago, and finally *auctioned by Parliament in 1842. Since that time it has been found to be so acceptable to the population of New South Wales that, upon the whole, as far as it could be ascertained, it was believed the colonists would prefer that form of government to that which had more analogy with the form of our own govern enent.—(llear, hear.) For his own part, he would only say he was anxiou s t o a d opt that form of government which would be most agree a bl e to the views of the colo mists themselves; and if in New South Wales it had been clearly the prevalent opinion that it would be advisable to leave the present form, and to adopt the form of a council and assembly, Government would have been ready to adopt the suggestion, and the Committee to which the matter had been referred would have proposed a different constitution. He would further say that his Noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies bad considered, with regard to these questions of colonial government, on all the great principles of government which are to be determined with respect to the welfare of the colonies, as well as with respect to other questions of difficulty, that the most advisable course was to refer those questions to the Privy Council; and Lord Camp bell, Sir E. Ryan, and the President of the Board of Trade, had accordingly sat and given their matured at tention to the subject. He believed such a plan was most advisable, as it enabled the Secretary of State for the Colonies to discuss with others the various proposi tions, and to come to a better decision than if he deter mined them alone.—(Hear.) These were the laws of government they proposed to give to New South Wales, and he would add, Government proposed to give the co lony the power of altering the constitution in that re spect, and if in the opinion of the colonists it would be better to resort to a government of legislative council and assembly, there would be no restriction on the part of the Government to such a change.—(Hear.) With respect to other matters there would be a considerable change from the Bill proposed last year, for then Go vernment proposed that the customs duties of New Bbuth Wales should be the same for all the Australian colonies, until altered by the proper authorities. Though he thought the customs duties ought not to vary in the Australian colonies, it was at the same time thought ad• visable that this should not be enacted by Parliament, but that the eolonies should be left to settle it among themselves. Government proposed that the district of Port Philip should be separated from New South Wales, and form a different district. Government introduced into Van Diemen's Land the principle of THE SUN, elective legislative councils, similar to the other colonies, and it was proposed to extend to South Australia councils on the same model. Government proposed, on the proposition of two of the colonies, to have an Assem bly different to that of the Australian provinces, which assembly should have other powers that might be use fully employed on questions affecting the interests of the whole of the colonies. With respect to that body it was likewise proposed to refer to it the power of dealing with that question so important in the Australian colo nies—the price of waste lands. After many changes on this subject, Parliament enacted in 1844 that 20s. an acre should be the price fixed for the waste lands of New South Wales, and in the Australian colonies, and that price was not to be capable of alteration. Government now thought great mischief would ensue if an alteration was made in one colony and this alteration was not ex tended to all the other colonies, because it would set one colony bidding against another colony for emigrants. Government therefore proposed, if an alteration was made, to extend it to all alike. He did not know that he need now enter into a further description of the Bill, because the Bill of last session was in the hands of Honourable Members, and the new Bill would soon be ready, when he trusted its provisions would all be maturely canvassed. He had, he thought, stated enough to show that in the North American colonies, and in the Australian colonies, it was the disposition of Government to introduce representative institutions, so as to give full scope to the will of the people to work out their own prosperity, as a better system than if their affairs were regulated by ordinances from this country.—(Hear, and chsers.) With respect to New Zealand, Government began in 1846 to show a disposition to confer representative institutions, but it showed too much haste on the subject. The able Go vernor of New Zealand had since pointed out the fact of the existence of different native races in New Zea land, and that a different system was requisite than would be the case in North America, New Holland, and Van Diemen's Land. The Governor pointed out the amount of capacity for a system of government; and showed how ill a large number of natives of different races grouped with a small number of English settlers, who had the sole legislative control. This objection was felt by his Noble Friend, and it was determined by Government to suspend the constitution that had been conferred on the colony. The Go vernor wrote that he had introduced a legisla tive council, and he thought at the expiration of the time fixed by Parliament representative institutions might also be safely introduced. Believing his opinion to be well founded, Government proposed to wait until the proper season had arrived for putting into operation the'new constitution.—(Hear.) He believed he had now gone through all the colonies which the gen tlemen he had referred to thought advisable should have free institutions, such as existed in the West India islands. He must say, with respect to the West India islands, the gentlemen expressed more moderation in their views than in some of the other instances. He would state, with respect to the West India islands, what had been done, and what was proposed to be done. With regard to Barbadoes, and Jamaica, and other West India colonies, they had for a long period enjoyed go vernment by council and assembly; and though from time to time differences arose between the Governor and the Assembly, he did not think it was likely any permanent derangement or evil would eome from them. Although, for instance, the Assembly was disposed to press for the reduction of the judges' salaries, and other reductions, yet the able opposition of people of influence in the Council had been able to check any mischief. The re ductions already made in the expenditure in that colony amount to 70,0004 With regard to British Guiana, when Mr. Barkly proceeded to take the government of that island, he (Lord J. Russell) begged to see him, and then told him his impression when in the Colonial office 0 the particular position of that colony. The co lonists had recently been emancipated. They had passed from slavery to freedom, and he requested Mr. Barkly to pay attention to the subject and inform him whether the new constitution could be so amended as to admit of an extension of the franchise. He would not detain the House further than to say he had received an able letter from Governor Barkly, and with reference to the pro position for an extension of the franchise the Governor had already carried a measure for that purpose, and a new election had taken place; though the electors were not so numerous as it was expected they would be hereafter, yet they were more numerous than ever they were before. With regard to the salary of the Governor of British Guiana, he might say that ques tion showed how difficult it was for gentlemen to carry into effect the principles they asserted, that the colonies ought to be allowed to manage their own affairs, and that Government ought not to interfere except in cases of necessity. With respect to this salary Government had determined to leave the matter to the colonists. The salary was to be 5,0001. a year, and the colony was to contribute to it. Government left the colonists to dispose of the question. He would here remark with respect to salary, that if a large and liberal salary was given, there would ho more likelihood of getting competent parties to fill the office than would be the case if there was a restriction in this respect. But as the salary was a contribution from the funds of British Guiana, and part of its expenditure, it was far the representatives of British Guiana, and not for Par liament, to prescribe what ought to be the sum.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to other changes in the colony of British Guiana, although Govenor Barkly was of opinion other changes might in time be introduced, yet he did not think it would be advisable to introduce other changes immediately. Many of the colonists were slaves a short time ago, and it would therefore be advisable to make changes gradually. Governor Barkly was of opinion that though the colonists might be unfit now for further change, yet this would be no bar to future alteration. Governor Barkly proposed there should e a municipal council at the seat of govern ment, and he gave his reason why this had not been before introduced. With regard to the Mauritius, Mr. Anderson was of opinion that municipal councils were an advantage. In Malta the Governor had con sidered what was expedient, and had introduced some elective members to the council. He need not go into the particulars of the other colonies—he did not think it necessary to other colonies than those he now stated ought, in his judgment, to have representative institu tions. He now came to another question —a question of very considerable importance as regarded the colonies, but which was not in itself strictly a colonial question— the question of transportation. (It was decided by this country in 1766 that a penal colony should be founded in New Sontti Wales, and, measures were taken for that purpose. Some persons were sent out, but no provision was made for their religious instruction. The plan and place of transportation were subjects that more pro perly belonged to Parliament to determine than to the Colonial Secretary. As far as the Colonial Secretary was concerned, he would be well satisfied if told Parliament had decided that no more convicts should be sent out; but Parliament had decided more than once that transportation should continue. It was fir the Colonial Secretary, therefore, to take care that transportation took place in the way least injurious to the selected colony. He had personally no great leaning to transportation, and in 1841 he made an at tempt to diminish the number of persons sent abroad; but Parliament passed a resolution to the effect that such a number of convicts should not be kept in this country. A Committee was appointed, and the judges were heard on the necessity of transportation in aid of the criminal law of the country. In the present state of the question the Colonial Secretary must endeavour to carry transportation into effect in such a way as to enable the colonies to derive advantage and to be se cured from injury. He had held the colonial seals, and he knew the mischief the system had done in New South Wales. He advised her Majesty to make a change, and had obtained an order in council to put a stop to transpore tation to New South Wales; and no act while he held office had given him more satisfaction than that order in council. Whatever might be the case hereafter, the changing the character of New South Wales—alter ing the colony from a convict colony to a colony of free people, had been productive of the greatest advantage to that colony. He now saw 200,000 inhabitants whore before there was only a mixed population of about 6,000 persons. He had made various attempts to introduce changes with regard to transportation to the colonies. When he came into office ho made various changes, the general principle bei ng th at conv i cts should not be faced on colonists against their will. It happened, however, amongst other causes of difficulty which arose from the famine in Ireland, was the pressure of the number of persons sentenced to transportation and the crowded state of the gaols, combined with the great mortality from disease. The Colonial Secretary thought he was justified in sending out a number of persons not exceeding three hundred, who had been con victed of crimes arising from the pressure of famine, to the colony of the Cape of Good Hope. He highly commended the fears and apprehensions which the colo nists expressed that the colony was about to be made a penal settlement. The colonists had great apprehensions on the subject of the introduction of those convicts, and hence arose an unfortunate state of things. The order in council had since been revoked by her Majesty, the convict ship had been ordered to Van Diemen's Land, and all sorts of apprehension and opposition would be averted by the removal of the cause.—(Hear.) He would not enter into the merits of the controversy—he would not enter into personal matters; ho made no re mark on the proceedings of either Government or colo nists, and he only referred to the matter to show what of transportation. transportation, of With respect to the f u t ure manage ment he admitted the subject was one of considerable difficulty. N ew South Wales had inti mated a wish not to accept more convicts , and as it was to bo expect e d t h at a feeling of the settled enctoagainst stt m lonie l s re ceiving convicts wo u ld arise among of this country, he anticipated that Pa the expe dient soon have to conside r w h et h er it would not be would ci to make some alterati on with :aspect to in fliction of transportation for some offences not of the gravest character. There was another question of the greatest consequence, the question of emigration. — (Hear.) Now, on the subject of emigration, there were two modes in which emigration was carried on bene ficially—ore where the labourer, whose labour was wanted and valuable in certain states and colonies, went in numbers to those places, and filled np interstices in society where their labour was in demand, and where, instead of being a burden on the community here, they obtained high wages and ample subsistence. Of this kind of emigration a great mass had lately been directed ti the United States and to the British North American colonies. A second kind of emigration consisted of classes of persons who formed new colonies where society was not already established. Of this kind there had been a considerable amount of emigration. With regard to the first kind of emigration, ho had some accounts furnished to him by Mr. 'Murdoch, from which it ap peared the total emigration in three years was 796,354 persons, making an average of 265,450 persons annu ally. Now, he begged the House to consider how very large that emigration was. It was within some 30,000 or 40,000 of the increase which the popula tion of the country was computed to make yearly, He LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUAR y 9, IMO was of opinion that this emigration of labourers and their families to the United States and British North America in search of employment was likely to continue for many c y l e a a s s r s foundHe believed for the themselves, m ea a n n s d of remitted thiscountry which h on n t tr i y s to bring out others, would have the effect of furnishing occupation for transport arrangements for some time. He believed the emigration to Canada and the United States would be kept up by the great demand for labour there. The difficulty hitherto was in finding means of transport, so as to allow of persons for whose labour there was no demand here, finding their way to places where their labour was in demand. No Government plan could be so extensive as to effect so great a- purpose as this kind of voluntary emigration. Government could Rot have effected the same amount of emigration at the same cost. Had Government laid out one and a half million of money, the chance was they would have found every species of abuse.—(Hear, hear.) People would have been sent from this country with false characters, and the system would have been found to be such a curse by the United States and by the colonies that we should soon have seen them making some provision to put a stop to this emigration, and saying to this country, "Do not send us your halt, your crippled, and your idle popula• tion ; if such be the character of Government emigra tion, we must interfere and put a stop to it." Such would be the result of the Government plan. Ho did not mean to say that Parliament was in no instance to give assistance towards promoting emigration; but, seeing the result of voluntary emigration, he was of opinion that Government interference in the shape of burdening the taxes for funds would prove a positive evil, and tend to diminish the present amount of emigra tion. Another species of emigration was that which had been directed towards the Australian colonies when emigrants went to found new or to increase old settle ntms.i appearedtout 3 that 7 in 1848-9 Emigration nrehtan C 87,000 persons , h t or e m 18,000 a year. In New Zealand new settlem e nts had m o e mssi l o t ner sen i been projected, and there were now 12,000 E uro p eans New Zealand, and no doubt in the co urse o f a f ew years there would be a very large emigration to New Zealand, and this colony would be found to be one of the most flourishing of our colonies. With regard to emigration generally, he believed it was in a satisfac tory coalition. He believed there would be no com plaint that large bodies of emigrants were sent to places where their labour was not wanted, and where their condition would be even worse than when at home. He had now stated the principal parts of that which he wished to put the House in possession of with respect to Colonial Government. He had not attempted to do more than just give the leading facts w ith res p ec t t o important questions, each of w hi c h was ma tt er f or a se parate night's debate.—(He ar, hear.) He thought it was useful for the House to have even this imperfect sketch of the state of the colonies, and the propositions which Government intended by the help of an enactment to be carried into effect. The whole result of what he meant to say was, that however well-founded the dissatisfac tion of some of our colonies, it must be placed to the account of the transition, painful to the parties, from monopoly to a system of free trade. The House ought not to go back from what it had de creed, but ought to treat the colonies on the principle that this country was at liberty to obtain from other coun tries whatever she might want and be able to get cheaper, and that the colonies were to have liberty to trade to all pasts of the world in that manner which seemed best to themselves.—(Cheers.) This, in future, would bs the cardinal point of their policy.—(Hear, hear.) The next point would be, that in uniformity with the princi ples of our ancestors, as far as possible, Government would proceed on the principle of introducing and main taining political freedom in our colonies.—(Hear, hear.) He thought, wherever it was asserted of a colony, poli tical freedom could not be introduced, that House was bound to show the reason for this exception—(Hear, hear)—and to show, with respect to the native races, there was not such a mixture of British people as would make it safe to introduce British regulations.—(Hear, hear.) It men were sent to the colonies capable of governing themselves, give them full liberty to govern themselves—(Hear, hear)—and, while you have your representatives there with regard to foreign relations, yet, in all their domestic concerns, interfere no further than necessary to prevent discord in society.—(Hear, hear.) These he conceived to be sound principles, and they were the principles on which the present Go vernment intended to proceed; and when the general features of the measure had obtained the assent and approbation of the House, he should be glad, with respect to the details, to adopt any better mode of carrying out these great principles than the one pointed out in the Bill. But he would say they were not then considering whether they should part with their colonies or make the connexion more loose, ear even leave them to defend themselves in the best way against foreign aggresson.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the exact amount of military force for the colonies, he re served to himself the right of discussing the question on a future occasion. With respect to some of the colonies, he might say that the fever into which they had been thrown had mainly diminished. He believed that if they proceeded on this principle, without any danger to the present, there might be a question arise hereafter which they might solve without the danger of such an unhappy confitet as that which took place in what were now called the United States of America. In looking back to the origin of that unhappy contest, he did not think it was a single error or a single blunder, but a series of repeated errors and repeated blunders of policy asserted, and then recalled —of policy again asserted, con cessions made when too late, and of obstinacy when it was unreasonable. He believed it had been by such a course that this country entered into that unhappy con flict, by which the loyal provinces of North America were lost.—(Hear.) He trusted that they would never again have to deplore such a contest. He did, indeed, anticipate that some of these colonies would so grow in population, commerce, and wealth, that the colonists might say that their strength and power was sufficient for them to become an independent country, and that the link of the chain had become onerous to them—that the time was come when they thought that those in Aus tralia and all other colonies should maintain their inde pendence. But he (Lord J. Russell) said, let the Legis lature make these people, as far as possible, fit to govern themselves. Give to them as Jar as possible the capa city to manage their own affairs. Let them but increase in wealth and power, and they would be thus qualified; and whatever might happen, this nation would at least have the consolation of knowing that she had contri buted largely to the happiness of the world.—(Cheers.) Sir W. MOLES WORTH said that the Noble Lord bad commenced his speech by explaining the origin of our colonial policy, and he went on to prove the vast in crease of population and commerce in our colonies, espe cially in Australia, and hence the Noble Lord inferred the great value of the colonies to the mother country, and he argued that it was not for the advantage of this country to abandon these colonies. In most of these ob servations he entirely agreed. But, then, the Noble Lord proceeded to raise the question of our future colo nial policy, in order to retain our colonial empire. He was so dull that he could not distinctly understand the principle of colonial policy of the Noble Lord. But give the power to the colonists to frame their own constitu tions—if they were to be allowed to carry out those old principles of their charters—then would the Noble Lord find in him a z'alous adherent. Theo the Noble Lord went on to cast a censure upon an association of gentle men which had been formed for the reform of the co lonial government.; Now he (Sir W. Molesworth), as ono of the gentlemen who had been alluded to, would state the reason which induced him to join that association. The gentlemen did so form themselves into a society because they entirely agreed with the Noble Lord in thinking that we ought to maintain our colonial empire. They aid so form an association because they felt that there was no hope from the Colonial -office of a complete reform of ;_the colonial system ; because they believed that as by the errors, blunders, and obstinacy of former colonial officers we had lost the American States, so were we likely now to lose those which remained. That association was framed hecause they had no faith in the capacity of the Colonial-offis to introduce real reforms, or to introduce a practical Bill fur the better government of the colonies of Australia. They had presented some fancied model constitution year after year. On the 14th August, 1846, the Under Secretary for the Colo nies stated that he hoped and trusted her Majesty's Government would he able to give their attention to the consideration of a better form of govern ment for Van Diemen's Land —and great was the le excitement there o n . h ear i ng t hi s news. On the 17thi of May, 1847, th e U n d er S ecretary said that it en s , I n contemplation, nay, that he m i g ht say a heht ure was Australian Thy Hon. in , preparatio n w i t h a v i ew to give the leeimisits of the on. Gentleman British constitution i to t the themeasure was i n colonies. n a ad vanced state, and would be brought forward in that ses sion, or at the beginning of the next session. The Vice- President of the Board of Trade, on. the 7th March, 1848, spoke of the intention to greoht free institutions to Australia. On the Bth May, 1948, the Prime Minister stated it was his intention to introduce a measure as early as possible. Week Diter week went on without the arrival of this Bill, and for four months the Under Secretary waited in vain for the opportunity, and on the 18th of August, 1848,? 'sine Hon. Gentl eman assured the House that at the earoiest period of the next session the Bill would be laid on the table. After a lapse of three years a Bill wae, produced; but it was so premature that it had to, be withdrawn.—(No, no.) Why, the Noble Lord again, on the 2d July, announced that a most importanA change had to be made in the Bill, On th e 17th J aly they withdrew the Bill of the Noble Lord, and thus, year after year, for the last four years, the fairest ppromises had been made; but the just hopes and expectations of the colonies had been disappointed and blighted. These proceedings had produced the greatest distrust and excitement in our colonies generally. Not only did discontent prevail in Australia, but in various quarters of our colonial empire. Bitter complaints were made against our colonial system, and the colonists of the Cape of Good Hope declared that tho Noble Lord at the head of the colonial department had broken a solemn pledge with them. The people of Van Diemen'a Land accused th e N o b le Lord of a breach of faith. The as to transportation. He had himself, thatn night, pre sented a peti t i on from the signed by 6 ,000 colony of N ew South Wales, persons, who told the Noble Lord would oppose any further transportation they that colony. A complete reformoftlic of Tersvicts to was necessary. h o oneal system The question was, to at extent of re form would this measure of the Noble what of our colonies complained of a want of fr 'go? Some or the want of power to alter or amend e:iestiinstitutions, institu then& Almost all complained of the appointmengt All complained of tho interference of the appointments made. office, and where transportation was carried nial discontent was strongly expressed. He would root enter into the question of colonial policy, but he would consider two thinge. First, as to the form of govern ment or constitution to be furnished; and secondly, a s to the powers which ought to be delegated to the colo nial authorities. First, with regard to the form of go vernment, he could not distinctly understand what form the Noble Lord intended to give to the Cape of Good Hope._ _lie believed that the Noble Lord intended to give to all the Australian colonies the present constitution of New South Wales. Now, suppose that there were in that House 110 Members who had seats in virtue of holding office under Government, and who held those seats only so long as they held office ; and suppose they had, besides those 110 official Members, 110 others who were appointed as Members of Parliament by the Go vernment at the commencement of every Parliament— making together 220 votes at the, disposal of the Go vernment ; and suppose that they were to get rid of the House of Lords, and that, instead of her Majesty the Queen, they had some governor over them of the ordinary sort. Suppose all this, and they would then enjoypee e nt blessi ngsfashin th s of of N the ew se ßritish uth Constitution, wrales.( A l a u a g t h t e the r . How would such a constitution work in this country and in that House ? Why, they would be divided into prase two violent factions, actuated by the very bitterest animus. No measures would be deemed safe which were decided against the majority of the elected. The Noble Lord said that the people of New South Wales were content with the present form ef govern ment, and he did not know whether the Noble Lord had received any late accounts, but he (Sir W. nlolesworth) had read something of the late deliberations of the Le gislative Council, and he found that what they felt was, that they would rather have even their present constitu tion than that which had been propoLed to them by the Noble Lord. He presumed what they wanted was, that power should be given to the colonies to alter and amend the constitution and to make the two Chambers elective. If this power were conceded to the colonial Legislatures it would diminish some of his objections to the Bill of the Noble Lord. If the Noble Lord would adopt the old sound principles of colonial policy he would do better. He hoped he would leave the colonies to find constitu tions fur themselves. But all our attempts at constitu tions had been ridiculous. They all knew the .history of the constitution for New Zealand; it was enacted one year and suspended the next. It was rumoured, too, that Sir Harry Smith had been called upon to pro vide a constitution for the Cape of Good Hope. Now, though he had a high respect for the gallant officer's character, still he must observe he was not by nature or profession fitted to be a Solon. If tf ey sought to frame such constitutions as should give general satisfaction, let the Government send out to the colonies to obtain the opinions of each colony generally, and this ought to be done, not merely by asking the opi nion of the Governor, or by referring to some colonial newspapers; they ought to assemble the representatives of the people, and desire them to declare how the case stood. It the Government did not do this, let them give to the colonies the largest powers of altering and amend ing their constitutions, whilst they, also allowed them to mave their governors elective. That was the case under the old charters. Then, secondly, what were the powers which were to be delegated to the Colonial-office; these were much more important considerations than were colonial local matters. He was sorry to hear that it was the intention to retain the arbitrary power on the part of the Crown of disallowing Acts passed by the local legislative bodies, and thus keep up the system of interference in the management of the affairs of the colonies. This interference had always been a perpe tual souice of discontent. Who were the persons intrusted with this E arbitrary power ? Why, those men in official capacities whose position changed with every change of Government who were absentee rulers—who had never ocular demonstration of the wants of the colony—who were always obliged to trust to second-hand and one-sided information. And worse than being ignorant, these men were misinformed, It was said that these men were responsible to Parlia ment, but that was an utter farce. If those whom he ad dressed were at the Antipodes, how would they like to wait three years to see whether Acts of Parliament were law or not? Wherefore did the Noble Lord wish to maintain this arbitrary power? He entirely agreed in thinking that means must be taken to prevent the colo nies from passing laws which would be injurious to or affect the imperial powers, but he denied that for that purpose they must give arbitrary power to the Colonial office. All executive and legislative powers in regard to colonies might be divided into two classes, the one class comprising the imperial powers, and the other the powers delegated to the colonial Legislature for the exercise of all local powers, and he would presently state what those, powers were. It was of great importance how these imperial powers were to be exercised. On the other hand it was of little importance to this country in what manner the local affairs were managed. The co lony was not dissatisfied with the imperial Govern ment on account of the manner in which their local affairs were administered. He contended it was impos sible for a man on one side of the globe to minister to the supplies of the Anglo-Saxon on the other side of the globe. He would take away from the Crown the power to disallow Acts passed by the colonial Legislatures, and he would limit its powers to cases affecting the Im perial rights. The House had more of " Imperial powers" than perhaps they had expected to hear from him, and he was prepared to enumerate what these Im perial powers were if the House would allow him to read some five or six pages. The Committse must un derstand that I propose that the colonial Legislature shall be absolutely prohibited, without the consent of her Majesty, from making any law affecting or derogating from the following powers. I would enact that the co lonial Legislature should not have the power to send or receive ambassadors, to or from, or to enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation with any prince, state, or power; to grant letters of marque and reprisal during peace or war, and to grant safe con ducts during war; the power to declare or make war; conceding to the colony, when actually in vaded, or in such imminent danger as not to admit of delay, the power to engage in war; the power to confiscate the property of alien enemies in time of war; the power to establish prize courts, the com mand of the militia in time of war, and at all times the command of all regular naval and military forces em ployed in and about the said colony; the power to coin money or regulate its value, or that of foreign coin; the power to grant titles of nobility; the power to regulate the transmission of letters by sea to and from the colony of New South Wales and any other place; the power to take any land situate within the said colony upon making due compensation to the owners and occupiers thereof for the purpose of erecting beacons and lighthouses thereon, and to make such regulations as may be deemed expedient for the proper management thereof; the power of keeping any landor naval forces in or about the said co lony or the coast thereof; the power of erecting forts, ma gazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings far military purposes—the power of placing garrisons therein, and of exercising exclusive jurisdiction within the precincts thereof; the power of taking possession of any waste land situate within the said colony, and of any other land therein, upon making due compensation to the owners and occupiers thereof, for the purpose of erecting such forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other need ful buildings, and for any other military purpose; the power of assenting to such Bills as are hereinafter mentioned to require such assent. Secondly, I would enact that the colonial legislature shell not have power without the n c ft whichr omaffecting his such e the ha le gs appealt a y e e ne n; andwt to deprive subsists;dignity any m the a k C pe er anyro , w o , law oorf consent of her M a j esty to make any law; to establish slavery; to alter th e succession to the Crown, or pass i n t o t m here n t Majestyof a Reg e i n o t ; C t o o o r a , e le t s l, o i v o e a a o n :7 , relating the r right t t to f the appeal p a p p e p a appointment caseperson A i containing ßt a a i n o y; tomo a m t t a e k r e or ao y t h a n g w co res n p t e i ry t n g t o e a i h p nations, as received an d administered in the courts of land or wat er , or to define piracies and felonies coin rnittsd en th e hi g h Seas; t -oet ur l s w bo of make any law affecting the command, regulations, or discipline of her Majesty's military and naval force; to make anything but gold or silver coin a legal tender ; to define treason or alter the law relating thereto; to lay any duties on supplies to her Majesty's military and naval forces; to bring in any Porte from any part of her Majesty ' s Bill of attainder; to i mpose any differential duty on imports to or ex dominions, or any duty inconsistent with any treaty that already has bee n , or may hereafter be entered into between her Majesty, her heirs and successors, and any foreign country ; to confer any privilege or immunity on the inhabi tante of New South Wales that shall not equally be conferred en the ether subjects of her Majesty, and every law or provision in a law in contravention of this chime shall be void. Now, in consequence of these reservations, veeeious legal questions would arise, affecting boundaries and other questions, which I would propose to refer to the decision of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, as the tribunal most esteemed in this country in all cases where questions of constitutional law are con cerned. Thus I would constitute for the present arbi trary power of the Colonial-office a legally-defined power. Now, there is nothing which men of our race die like more than arbitrary power—nothing which they respect more than a legally-defined power.—(Hear.) At present the colonial legislatures do not know what laws they may, and what laws they may not make. In fact, they may at present make any laws whatever, af feeting imperial interests in any manner, whatever pro vided the Colonial-office does not disallow them within a certain period of time. On the other hand the colonial legislatures cannot make , any law which the Colonial office may not disallow. I propose, theref,re, in the manner which I hare explained, to enable th e co l on i a l legisl a t ures to k now precisely what laws th e y may make, and what laws they must abstain from making; and propose to settle all disputes upon this subject by means of the decisions of one of the highest and most esteemed judicial tribunals in this country. have now answered the challenge that those who would effect reform in our colonial system should state what in their opinion the alterations should consist in. In order to reduce my principles to a practical shape, I have, with the aid of some legal friends of mine, prepared a Bill for New South Wales. I do not propose to introduce a Bill. I should require the assent of the Government-to do so. _ But, iif the Go- vtrnment and the House should desire it, I :will in troduce a measure on the subject. I now only pledge myself to general principles and to a general outline. I do not pledge myself to minute details; for, in order to make a perfect measure, information would be required from the Colcnial-office, and it would be necessary to consult conAitntional lawyers. I must now beg pardon for trespassing so long on the attention of tbo Com mittee, but 1 must rest rov excuse in the challenge thrown out by th e Noble Lord.—(flear.) In conclusion I would say that the true colonial policy to pursue is, to have faith in our colonists—(Cheers) —to believe that the colonists arc rational men (Hear, hear)—to believe t "t they can u n d erstand the i r local comerns better than We can— ( 1- le 4 r)—and to give them an uncontrolled ma nagement over their local, as contradistinguished I ':° 111 Imperial affairs. Then we should find the cede ( 9)e3, so relieved from a ha ted tyranny, whce-arty should G. boring a more allegiance to the IVE on arch of these realms; then -nd them - 11'❑gly obeying the Imperial laws and those governors s" tion-whom Parliament should delegate its with the T Powers 1g w ing no reason to find fault Imperial Gov , / I. ' nm ent, and being bound to the empire ,- h y, the stro v gent ties of cell interest and affection. ,, _e l Beers ) Mr. ANSI:EY tho .- ug . t 4 1 , Oa4 t the Into in respect to die allowing Acts passed by the colonial legislatures should be limited only to matters affecting the Imperial rights or interests. The Hon. Baronet (Sir W. Molesworth) proposed to abolish the Colonial-office under one name ' and create it under another—he p ro p ose d to a b ol i sh Earl Grey, and transfer his functions to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council.—(" No; no," from Sir Mole3worth.) The Hon. Baronet said it would be impossible to determine in some cases whether or not the colonial legislature had exceeded its functions, and that in such cases the Judicial Committee should determine.—(No, no.) If that was not the Hon. Baronet's meaning, he (Mr. A.) made no other objection to the proposition than this—that they would be left without even the assistance cf the Judicial Committee to determine whether a case for the interference of the Crown had occurred or not, and there. would be litiga tion without end between the colonies and the Crown. The true objection to the plan proposed for the Austra lian colonies was this—that one-third of the council were to be the nominees of the Crown. With reference to Van Diemen's Land, the operation of the plan would be simply this:—lf one-third of the Members were nomi nees of the Crown, the majority which would be found to support the measures of the local Government would form, perhaps two-thirds of the entire council, because almost the whole of the property of that island, in eon s( quence of its financial condition, was placed at the dis posal of the chief officers of the Government, all of whom were shareholders and managers of the principal banks —those bankers possessing mortgages over nine-tenths of the property in the island, and being in a position to compel the owners of the property to execute their will and pleasure. The better plan would be to allow those who were not under such influence to elect the Lower House, and other parties to form the Upper, and in that way things would correct themselves. Mr. H. J. BAILLIE said the Noble Lord had stated that the franchise under the constitution granted to British Guinea had been considerably increased. The Committee-which sat to consider the grievances of that colony had recommended that the alterations in the constitution should be made in friendly concert with the colonial authorities. When that paragraph was under discussion he asked Sir R. Peel if he considered it acting in friendly concert with the colonial authorities to force a Bill through the Court of Policy only by official votes, and the Right Hon. Baronet replied that he should con sider such a proceeding most objectionable. Now that was the course to which the Governor of British Guinea resorted. The new Franchise .Bill was forced thrciugh the Court of Policy by judicial votes only. Every one of the elected Members voted against the measure, which was finally carried by the double vote of the Governor. Every one of the elected Members resigned his seat, and refused to be put in nomination under the new Bill.— (Hear, hear.) Instead of the number of electors having increased, he was informed that the number had been reduced by about 200; and as an instance of the manner in which the elections were managed in that colony, he would just state that, in the county of Essequibo, the Solicitor-General was proposed by the county clerk and seconded by the gaoler.—(Laughter.) • Mr. LABOUCHERE said it had been his duty as a member of the Committee of Privy Council of Trade and Plantations, to take a share in the construction of the two important measures relating to the colonies of Australia and British Guiana. He admitted the pro priety of giving the most ample powers of self-govern ment to the colonies with regard to their local affairs, and he thought every candid man would allow that The Government had been actuated by a sincere desire to give constitutional freedom and happiness to the inha bitants of these two vast portions of our colonial em pire.—(Hear, hear.) He had heard with some surprise the censure cast upon the Government with regard to Australia. Now he had seen intelligence from that part of the world which showed that the people would re ceive in a very different spirit these proposals to which the Hon. Member made so much objection. He cer tainly had received no official dispatches, but he would call the attention of the House to a sentence in the Sydney Herald, of the 19th of September, a paper which represented the opinions of the popular party. That paper said that the report sent out was one of the ablest and moat conciliatory documents of the kind ever laid before the public. " Never before did the colony of New South Wales receive so large a share of Ministerial consideration, liberality, and kindness as in the present instance. Her Majesty in council' has conceded to us nearly everything we asked." He had received another newspaper from Port Phillip, the Vic teria Colonist, of the 14th of September, in which it was said, " It must be satisfactory to the Government to find that the boon they have granted to the Australian colonies has diffused such general satisfaction through out the province of Victoria. All the newspapers are unanimous in their expressions of approval, and have not given the slightest whisper of dissent."—(Hear, hear.) He had every reason t believe that the inhabi tants of Australia were less critical and less difficult to please than those gentlemen who defended their interests in that House, and that they would with feelings of gratification accept a measure which had been framed with a sincere desire to promote their benefit and place them on the footing of free members of the British empire, and which would lay the foundation of a free constitution, and thus tend to produce their prosperity and happiness.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Baronet said that the constitution of the Cape of Good Hope was to be left to Sir Harry Smith. Nothing could be more completely at variance with the fact, the truth being that the main principles of the constitution were imperatively laid down. Not having the difficulty to deal with which existed in the case of the Australian colonies, the Government introduced the three estates, and placed them in a governor and two council,. The only thing left to Sir H. Smith was the carrying out cf certain eetails with regard to qualification, and other matters with which it would be extremely difficult to deal in this country, from want of information which Sir H. Smith and his able council could most effectively supply.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Labouchere) consi dered that it would be extremely difficult to draw a strict line of distinction between what was imperial and what was local and colonial, and was cf opinion that a reference of matters to the decision of the Privy Council would involve the colonies and the mother country in endless difficulties.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK said the Noble Lord at the head of the Government bad dome two things—he had explained the policy of the Government with regard to our colonial possessions, and he had explained one specific act of legislation which he intended to propose. In announcing part of the general policy the Noble Lord laid its foun dation on the previous history of our colonial posses sions, but he struck out the most important portion of that colonial history—namely, that which related to the United States, confining his observations to certain charters given to Lord Carlisle, as governor of the West India possessions. The Hor. \Baronet said, these charters were simply broad and general powers con ferred on the colonies, whereby they might make con stitutions for themselves. But that was not the case. the charters given to the colonies were most pecu liarly definite, specific, and particular, so much so, that some of them were no* in actual existence as constitutions. Lord Clarendon, in the reign of Charles 1., conferred on Rhode Island so liberal a constitution that to the present hour it remained the constitution of that stele, and it was so specifically given that under it they !here able to elect a body which was the governing body at the present time.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord laid down certain general propositions, nod he said that it was the intention of the Government to give the colonies.the entire government of their own concerns. He (Mr. R.) was glad to hear that declara tion.—(Hear, hear.) After going through the portion of history to which he (Mr. R.) had alluded, the Noble Lord dealt with the conduct of certain gentlemen to wards the Government, with respect to their colonial policy. Now, if these gentlemen wanted a j us tification of their conduct, th a t j ust ifi cat i on m i g ht b e found in the course now taken by the Noble Lord.s-(lltar, With regard to South Africa, he (Mr. R.) had nothing e bear.) more to ask.—(Hear, hear.) But he would warn u _ Noble Lord of the consequences. The Noble Lord . co could never have two or tbree measures for the colonies. — (Hear, hear.) The colonies of Canada, Nova Scotia, New ' Brunswick would all demand elective councils. He had seen civil war arise because these coun cils had been denied. The Noble Lord having arrived at the conclusion that a double chamber was necer re spect y, and that the two ch a mbers should be elective it to South Africa, he (Mr. Roebuck) could with see how the Noble Lord had arrived at don opposite conclu sion with regard to New South Wales.—(Hear, hear.) Great objections would be entertained' to the system of nomination. Legislation of that kind would not satisfy the people, because it would not be the legislation the of the people elected by the people. The prejudices of peo ple would be raised by the fact of a set' of men sitting as nominees. The Noble Lord having proceeded so far with respect to South Africa, he (Mr. Roebuck) wished to know why he should halt in his narch—why he should be persuaded out of his . better mind? His better mind served him in South Africa, but getting to New South Wales it deserted him, and some evil genius inter vened. He did not see why a blot should be placed on the largest portion of our colonial possessions. If two chambersdid they propose five new were best, why co nstitutions for Australia on a different principle? He hoped they would consider this question with what an Hon. Member called a knowledge of human nature. 'lt was a great experiment, and he hoped they would not do anything which would sow the seeds of discontent, or which would plant a q uarrel that w ou l d grow up and overshadow the.benefits of the measure. Mr. HAWES, in answer to a remark of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, said he would refer him to the peti tion of the inhabitants of New South Wales to show that they regarded the Act sth and 6th Victoria as a great boon. The Legislative Council established by that Act might be called a popular body, inasmuch as, con sisting of 36 members, only 12 of that number were no minees, the other 24 being elective. In framing a con stitution for New South Wake, the Government had thought it advisable to propose what they believed would be most acceptable to the people. If public opinion should desire a double chamber, the Legislative Council would have power under the proposed Bill of modifying the constitution proposed to be granted. That was the course most deferential to the public feeling in New South Wales which could be taken by the Government. The Hon. and Leaxned Gentleman (Mr. Roebuck) had spoken of the proposed elective assembly for the Cape colony as an innovation upon the former system of colonial con- sti tutions. It was his (Mr. Hawes's) wish that the House she uld consider that as a declaration on the part of Parhament that, in colonies with a large European po• pultetion, and possessing a representative assembly, the proposition for elective legislative councils would meet with. sao further opposition from this country.—(Hear, hear-) He could assure the Hon. Member for South wark that it had never been his intention to depart from the promise he made in 1846 as far as regards the con stitution for the Cape. As regarded the Australian co lonies, a Bill had been laid on the table of the House last year. With respect to the present measure it had actually been framed, and the intention to introduce it announced long before the Colonial Reform Association was thought of.—(Bear, hear.) The suggestion of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark for the ap pointment of a Judicial Council to decide as to Imperial and local questions, would be productive of injurious consequences if carried into effect. The Hon. Member for Inverness had referred to Guiana, and to the case of an election where only two persons had voted. But it did not follow, because there was no contest, that there was no constituency. Many Hon. Members of that House bad been electsd without even two votes having been given. After the able arid ceinprehensive statement of the Noble Lora the First Minister, hr should say no more, but postpone what othe'r ease -vs rions‘he had to make until the measure was befosa then. He trusted that it would meet with the approval of the House, and that the result would be, that all our great colonies would be possessed of institutions anelagous to those of the mother country. Mr. GLADSTONE would not on the present occasion enter upon any discussion of the general principles of colonial policy laid down by the Noble Lord, nor would he enter upon any defence of the Colonial Reform Asso ciation. There might be points in the constitution of that society open to criticism, but it was entitled to the credit of having given a stimulus to the proceedings of the Government.—(Hear, hear.) No doubt the Austra lian Bill had been framed as stated by the Under-Secre - tary before the Colonial Reform eiesociat on was thought of; but the Australian Bill was not the ob i( et of their admiration. The credit cif the Government rested on the more recent production of the outline of the Cape constitution, which he apprehendei ha • be, re prepared subsequent to the proceedings cf the association. Mr. HA WES—Ne. Mr. GLADSTONE—He believed the idea cf the Legislative Council was conceived in the Board cf Trade in January, 1850. He was not desirous on the present occasion of saying a word aaainst the Government proposition of a single chamber for the Australian colonies. He believed the Bill was conceived in a friendly spirit. But how stood the case with regard to a single chamber in New South Wales? The Under- Secretary for the Colonies had said that be preferred a double chamber, but had adopted a single chamber out of deference to the feeling of the people a New South Wales, who were opposed to the creation of an Upper House; and the Hon. Gentleman added, that he had provided a remedy, as the Bill would give the Legisla tive Assembly a power of re-modelling itsel, and estab lishing, if it thought fit, a double chamber. The remedy, in his opinion, would be an imperfect one. The object was to obtain the sentiments of the - population of New South Wales. He knew of no British interests in Australia apart from the interests of the people of the colony.—(Hear.) This body, which was to hare the power of modifying the constitution, was a body in which nominations largely entered. In the Legislative Council there might be a majority of the elected Mem bers favourable to a double chamber, and yet that ma jority might be converted into a minority by the nomi nated Members opposing them.—(Hear.) What more likely than that the nominated Members should object to any desire for a second chamber by the elected Mem bers. Naturally those Members would be arrayed against the proposal for a double chamber, and therefore the remedy proposed would be inoperative. The ques tion of the second chamber had never been before the people of New South Wales, and they bad never de cided in favour of a single chamber. The question whe ther the second chamber should be elective or not was one which would have to be considered well, whenever it was proposed to grant one. He thought the constitu tion of some of our North American colonies was some what defective on this point.' Lord Elgin, in order to bring the Legislative Council into harmony with the House of Assembly, had been obliged to make nomina tions which swamped the former body. If the second chamber were elective, it would derive its strength from the same source as the other chamber. Something sunder to this was the state of the French Chamber and the President, who both held their power from the same body of electors. His opinion was that if they wished to give strength to an Upper House iu the colonies they must make it elective. The decision to which the people of New South Wales had come was natural; but it was presumption to assume that they were opposed to a dou ble chamber. Be thought the Under Secretary had fallen into au error with respect to the Governor of Van Die men's Land. If the Hon. Gentleman would refer to the dispatch of August, 1848, he would find the governor stating that, without presuming to assert what would be the best form of the legislative body, he might say that under the peculiar circumstances of the time, the adop tion of an upper or second chamber would be strenuously rejected. [Mr. Hewes made an observation which was not heard in the gallery.] The GoVernor was stating his opinion at the time he wrote. There were two reasons why they ought to establish a double chamber in Austra lia. When the Australian colonists learnee that au upper elective chamber had been granted to the Cape, they would at once demand a similar institution. And, in the second place, though the present constitution of New South Wales was a good one when granted some six or seven years age, it ve as not now a good constitution. He did not like the gathering together a fixed number of gentlemen as nominees to the council opposed to the elected members. Their nomination had nothing of the grace or dignity attached to the calling of individuals to the Upper - House in this country. The twelve nomi nations in the Legislative Council of 'New South Wales wee e there to support it was supposed the influence of the-Crown, but their appointment involved a fundamental and fatal error. It proceeded on the assumption that the Crown had a distinct interest from the people.—(Hear.) It tended to create a party in the colony who were pre sumed to be in a peculiar manuer loyal and attached to Britain.—(Hear.) lie did not deny that their govern ment were loyal, but it was dangerous to do anything to create a British party. They should confider the whole colonists the British party.— (Hear.) If so, they ought to leave them to themselves., and not adopt institutions that would lead to the supposition that this country and the colonists tad separate interests.—(Hear.) He should be ready when the Bill came telore the House to argue in favour of establishing a double chamber. Mr. HAWES explained, and referred to the dispatch of the Governor of Van Diemen's Land to show that any change of the present system of one chamber in the New South Wales constitution would be looked on with suspicion by the colonists. Mr. GLADSTONE thought the Hon. Under Secre tary should not have overlooked another part of the dis patch, where the Governor of Van Diemen's Land stated that he would not have the least objection to recommend an upper chamber for Van Diemen'b Land. Mr. HUME expressed his delight at the promises held out by the Noble Lord, and hoped that he would be able to carry them out. He cordially approved of the proposed Constitution for the ha mCbaepre wasg Colony, ood and r inhabitants, upper c an'itwas good for a colony a t h c o n u l g nh b y t a B t o i , f oo a n o i e n l with 200.000 inhabitants. He was not one of those n i o u n n tr t 3 a , ke , i t place justi b e s e t w w e n e s n o d nn u e r colonies si r a e h d d to tr se e e m a o s t e h p e a r ra c t them, but he h h a a d v a e l t w a a k y e a n felt p l a t c h e a f s ooeunrer oldor later sst a e m of sepa ration would governing them had been persevered in. — (Hear.) An improved syste m of colonial government would not beneficial to the colonies,ut would save this only be country from t a h( ! n ar s g sn e d a s m o o f u n e t u o r f e t x r optepnsd wouldi tu re ; t h e e r under suc h system drawn from the mos t distant stations l s o a f i t d he d e n m w p n ir h e y . lie earnes tly hoped that the principles Lordwould be carried fully into effect ; and if not be deesppointed in that hope, he felt he Noblesh should as sured that d the most happy results would be produced by the contemplated alteration in our colonial policy. Mr. ADDERLEY said he believed that the conse quences of the course they might pursue upon that sub ject &ould be either to rivet the attachment of the colonies to the mother country and to relieve the empire at large from many difficulties and burdens, or else to exasperate the colonies by the disappointment of their just expectations, and, perhaps, to create among them feelings of irritation which would lead to the loss of them for ever. After all that had transpired that even ing, he could not help congratulating the House and the empire at large on the fact that there existed in this country an organized channel for the expression of pub lic opinion on colonial questions. The exertions of the Colonial Reform Association had, at haq, so far suc ceeded as to force the Noble Lord to place in the pro per position of prominence among the debates of the session the great que.tion then under their considera tion. The Noble Lord had objected to the proposal of that association to correspond with the colonies. But it should be remembered that they only wished for an " accredited " correspondence, and that their great ob ject was to obtain the most accurate information upon the subjects which might come under their notice. He regretted to find that the scheme laid down that even ing by the Noble Lord contained no great advance upon the scheme which had been condemned last session, except in the proposal for granting a constitution to the Cape of Good Hope. He could not help disapproving of the proposal of the Noble Lord to retain in the hands of the Government the nomination of so large a portion of the council in New South Wales; and lie could see no sufficient reason for establishing there one chamber only. The Noble Lord supposed that publiC opinion in New South Wales was decidedly in favour of such an arrangement; but he (Mr. Adderley) found no proof o f the existence of such a feeling. For his part he earnestly hoped that her Majesty's Govern ment would think it advisable to assimilate theconsti- tution of New. South Wales as nearly as possible to the constitution of the mother country. Ttiere was a very ex traordinary provision id the proposed constitution for the Cape of Good Hope, and one which would yet, he hoted, be modified. He alluded to the proposal for leaving the election of the Upper Chamber to a body of public officials. That would be a most strange proceed- ing ; and he believed it had only been suggested by the Noble Lord in consequence of his extreme reluctance to take the formation of the council out of the hands of the Government. He (Mr. Adderley) wished to see self-government extended to the colonies, not as a con cession to clamour, but in obedience to the dictates of sound police and of justice. He trusted the colonization Fad higher objects time war or commerce, and hoped that we had already laid the foundations in four colonies of civilization and freedom. Mr. AGLIONBY complained of the disparaging tone in which the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had referred to the Co!onial Reform Association, which he (Mr. Aglionby) certainly would have joined had he been aware of its formation, and which he thought would be cf great use in keeping, the public attention aline to colonial matters. Nor did he think the worse of it became it derived its information on colonial mat ters from accredited agents. The Government derived all their information from their governers, who were sometimes at variance with the colonists, and on whose accounts, therifore, implicit reliance ought not to be placed. Ho had listened with great satisfaction to the speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for Sheffield, and should look for his views during the progress of the question with great enxiety. He was astoni.hed to hear the Noble Lord at the head of the Government Observe that New Zealand was to have no other than a nominee form of government till M arch, 1853. Would that be tolerated? Impossible• and he gave the Noble Lord notice, that if, when the _gill owe before Parlid- went, he found New Zealan of their new good intenti , endeavour have it inch', in part. In August, 184: a constitution ; in March, though in the interval they, Governor, on whom they southern province was ontin constitution. Already the producers sioleadly feud hetw , -tiers (4: the r,:eutherti p , e N , ,ble Lord h, linE:ros tsrhivh he hid ex n~r;t~-~ uc , v,l nment and repreientative institutions, sf, anything the, he bad exte3ted that be v m u h ld sear believe it real. It now only remained to see what sal pre ithl e r. us S i C on O;f l structure Parliament would raise upon so esti ° feunda,tion.—(H , ar hear.) the head of the Government and the Right 11°11* the , l a . . an sad that n which othing in e d o induced d be the s President a the Board of Trade to stet,: that the feej in the colony was in favour of a sin not impute intentional misrepresentation to eitb er m Noble Lord or the Bight Hon. Gentleman, but he e- e assure them that such a feeling never eat:ted. „ , Ri.4l t Han. Gentleman had, quoted the editor (I single clamber., 117 seek for expression of N4erebaleterLinorldriis Sydney Morning Herald in support t f his ass Aid ! the 144gisle'iva Council was sitting ; why did l e c acre was only one member of the Legislative UT who expressed an ()pinion against a double eh 7 Uoder-. . and that was Mr. Wentworth. The Hon. tar said, one great argument in favour of a s s o ' d chamber was, tat it was essentially O o Pu jer, e s reply to some cneers from the Opposition bale e said, " Whan you have only twelve nouiine es p t public opinien there ? , ... twenty-four elected members, you surely cannot cs i , a nominee chamber ?" But it was just the same 851 British House of Commons were con3posed of 200 b iciness of the Crown, and 400 men sent the re h l t votes of independent electors, and this w eber. 7' Under-Secretary called a popular form of `ba be believed the feeling in New South Wales e. 0 opposed to having nominees of the Crown s itting o ts b ,;l chamber at all, though the very same men 'n i g loo k a t S seats there by election. Let the Noble Lord out oil the colonies last year, and say if he could P°idetdistreS where there had not been disturbance an - , sd Look at Canada, Ceylon the Mauritius, the Ca ; were not **andalarm felt 0 0 e very d l anxiety hould en lest the vacillation of the Government s , g e co severing them from the mother country that f elidl fessed that he was shared that a 01 one who to 1 1 0 though it would have had no el ls , vi e ws in Noble Lord stated last his liberal ~ d dell same able and comprehensive saner as . 1 7,a - t a be GI that night. But what had been the course e ye ars vernment towards the colonies for the last three recall. A constitution was sent to New Zea'aad sod re sod within a year; a dispatch seriously affe eti n li k g d wit hiai condition cf Canada, sent out and re v " -e oldie 5 -7 month; a colony Poorer si founded in Northern AO way e l abandoned, h after incurring a great eXPe li . se. ailuot SU , a t s is h vacillation, and was is surprising thtl s O f the °'': should produce irritation in th emu° lon t is i t s s. A da 11, Colonel THOMPSON would propose a ci 11y ,,i,, -. B o ses i a a iti r o e dn st their privileges, answer to which would be interesting to large."ch are : the country. In the colonial constitutions vib a l borig ie j It was clear, for instance, that the Ne w 005 o ur b der stood 'in precisely the same podia as.,:. t hen di se o sp n ereo th ii e as i ia r otns complyingl made oatdheefof ari l wither iadmitting°Yraetesi t o t it e ; -f h i eP :1: 1° : t j i a cji' ancestors did to the Ramans.—(• ii . „ „ i d co ~c hose to " clothe his pink'd and painted hide , ' lo s th t w or-n2 to the rules and habits of English s° c il ie e rY i;or° l ' A g‘ ay open to him to the privileges of a " U .—. f vr i-cil lishman," like any uther of the elements outcie? that heterogeneous being had been compouode that escler e t sih r : o epi t i n : fra.:oc t b r e ., g v. ; ', i . Mr. HAWES bad t,attsfaction in stating, rigileo they complied with British rule aborigioes were entitled toe 114,111000 Thever n m H e n n u t of British-born subjects, and in fact were 0 11 0; ( 1, ~ The resolution for leave to bring in a Ol .- greee Aro - House f thereuponthe resumed, visiou co s l l3 o colonies watnhadse 0 $ d 0 i dered to be brought up on Monday. bird ° The County Cess (Ireland) Bill Was rea and passed. NT.) . e PARTY PROCESSIONS (lOLA- potic ' nt Sir W. SOME 4 RVILLE moved, pursue m ec cas ~, for leave t . brio • og in a Bill to restrain party P af 0 0 2 . in ' Ireland. He would take that opportunttYA d i e G ia stating to the House the reasons that inan,e"houlda':B vernment to ask leave to introduce it, and be 'be albs ` f state very briefly the nature of the Bill. doe N., was as are that the present was not the first ..d. um i ; legislation upon that subject bad been attemPtad toils fortunately, in former times party processions u at geroP f place, and collisions had occurred. V e rious fer oce e had n been made by proclamation and the iat i e r ge , 0 8 1; i f fiuential personages to stop those proc eed ' lli°l; g a ortunately their efforts had been unavailing, andoo Bill had been introduced for the purpose batfreTel° re them. That Bill was for a limited petiod, I fo ol 1 a newed at different times, and at length was s t lbere I : n s e exire in 1845. From hat time to the presen"rotoPP;', been no legislative enactriient for putting dm ° ° t oo c ec- ts these processions. He wished be could add tb s e 'b e eat °* l - , city existed for putting a stop to them; hilCs;rtuettejer of the Government and others had been 0 ° . . - ,, at ioit",‘ s u a n t i . ivailing. although on the approach of md s eee rt°l- n : r e, force to s had directed additional militsrYboce -.„ h o t, be sent to the localities were d isc 9 4 : „P g r°c , es a s n i p:re . ncled. That. had been all in vsin,'„ g e ll ti - rriThy" s°l f ns still took place—collisions were still things"--c " t hs ii!feeling still prevailed. In such astste of , f th 1- I , ° ; w . as to be done? It was evidently the tintY ' l dled) t ''' i gishtture to endeavour (since other me ans T -. t i reig b°l7 : special legislation to abate such a Bystenn --.6bable-i that at common law these processions were Pet a ntl e g i l l i misdemeanours, but that often became a deli° 9 f ibe Bill barrassing duty to magistrates. The object 0 09 8 „ he had the honour of proposing was to r etie' *l ee $" that had expired in 1845. He did not mean 10 s'd o se; any particular case, and it was his wish not t° 41 a The Bill was not aimed at any particular partYr a tbe he did allude to any particular party, he might ,r t ! o ote a risk of disturbing the unanimity which he Otto 0° from all sides of the House. He was sure there o ces' Hon. Gentleman in that House who did not feel sb e o i 01 city of putting a stop to these processions. It ic I' b 0 i• alone the loss of life and destruction cf property' o f ee l they tended to keep alive and awa k e f ee lings ar oce niosity between neighbours and friends, and 113 : s or e the material prosperity of the country. lie * ,, 11 0 fil lsV , that was a state of things that every I nia° 9 - . 13 g - ever side of the House he sat, wasde ge i nt e s of l oa f sh ia stop to. The Bill proposed to deal witrh°lloffeacei: o f description, as the former did, by ..1 11r-cit summarY , ... 40 and it was also proposed to make it perpetarobich " Leave was then given to bring in the 81 11, , A subse • quently brought in and read- ' e EP -Ij' a first OW ohs On the motion of the SOLICITOW'et peP;id having vas given to bring in a Bill to ees - le bt ll ,i in in h a d limited interests in land in Ireland t° a ctate i ' ll better a improving leases. Also a Bill to. faelkii, t rus tg ,:i secure the administration .ebbs' ott'' f mall Oll s' o li , Mrr. T . URNER ho c s hoped the . * provis'ons ° I. dto P- lit he such that those trusts- would not De 1 d 1 0. tical pur os , _ p . es, but that they would be eniPl°Yl 10 / benefit of th d a e poor The Bills w *re'l ere brought in and s evera lly time. • eel ( 4 4 ,a oe The Ho • . u..e a journed at Half.past Eitl— - baa —_____ A MA N or P.• r p. ROASTED,—We scarcely el r '" 0 4 9 P e i) V. to chronicle a more revolting o utrage th...r,„otot i - :la few dA tr o a ltl y z e n d 7w a sars. days ago in the P'arislf of 1( ) `` -r d O r 4 0 ‘ S ir o i m nk e i r an to g n in Atheshmoaulslefearfmheirs,r:e ton : : i t ; o f r ot, . t ,„ o named Paul ,Hill. Hill had purchased l o sioul or ; 0 cider of Allen, rho bad given them a bu e cs , re o cider and a party of seven or eight person,:porti ;op making over the apple juice. Some of t" for 03° sill p p o o r s t e i d on t , o th se ey nd for tobacco, and asked A lle F to P il Yt t icb he was sitting, . a l o n c d k ed heapedn p which he refused. In order to compel b un ,. in ° to g him there for a period of, it is said, tw o e sssi .00 literally roasted him. When the poor fell°10„ ettn i v i os get off his small clothes the flesh of hi s r ;dol i ,g b tli° t f h r e es h e h f i u m e a l c on c :b rell o uge r b e 'o u l‘ rg gs e t r ; I ti s with his garments, and he now lies in n ;l c : Sire,' s c ipe' state. Ralph Neville, Esq., attended h ouse on SY e ijg by n3agistrates' clerk, went down to the bit foe day to take his depositions, but foOli“ ori t Or C _, "Art headed, and lt- o f affair.—Sherbornc Journal. 0 Core ifi tvele b Yt r Any ... P. ItTisEMINNT.i-- A remark aux „"; o r 000 ,, , unable, to give a connected oc Town by Holloway's Pills and Ointment . that fi° Dicer Wellington-bridge, Hobart Town, writes i r a o n jt"„a Pills and Ointment enjoy high reputatiott in be '",itar P I , Land ; he speaks of one j man who for years 10w.,,,5 ( 11 % - i s era t ''', treatment of the medical practitioners. and -- 6 0 " i t h t l '` , from the hospital as incurable, and bad beconloot ~ tio rt V emaciated and weak that he could only nelb a is o: l o ple t t l i f f , assistance of persons supporting hini. ." v e so hea lt o f commenced using these medicines, which 3 % s tout,' 0 t oe t renovated his health that he is now becoo3e, s tow s od '' looking man, and his cure he solely attribirdersgeto6o. Holloway's Pills and Ointment. Sold by Lod; ° Professor Holloway's, Establishment, f 2 44, °l'' ers oll • And On the 4th inst., Mrs. Anderson , wife on Weir r Esq., of Gateacre, near Liverpool, of a ° II. l ‘ frs. .4 :,.hb On the sth inst., at Park-terrace, 00P Scott, of a son. wife °I S. Cocks j 9 u t n h ., in E s s t q .,. , amt.linteroeffoards-osntr.eet, tb° f.."0 15 '"' On the 6th inst., at Lianover-terrace, naughter. Notting-bill, the wife of Dr. Jackson, of a eldest_ son of W. ' B On the sth inst., Esq., l ot C . r.a -- --------------- t upeek.mniamAnandrß,kicEDb.ape , . Io well to On the eldest daughter of John Poulton, 1 ,6(1 ,",' - os or ,fora , U sth just, at St Marti's Cht,iret'le, o>:sq, Bev James • - Chambers, M. of .All Souls C;,o,:titl, to Charlotte Ann, youngest daughter of Rohe ' '' pert of that ci' . y. ' v pivie I° o o,o l, On r the sth inst., at Hove Church, the S e ' toot ;iticV son, youngest son of Divie Robertson, Y-39:4,,,,., youngest daughter of the late J• Watsoot l'" lodge, Brighton. ie M t/ On the 2d inst., at North-crescen , a 4 r y, DIED o d . - eci tit ' re : Dalton, the wife of 1‘ r. A. D. Dire! care, oniss P• tlle layn:lbsierofrty;s:voli:ll,6.; On the sth inst , at Hyde-park-square ..-• $i 10414 second daughter of J. Bethe'l, Esq. ~7 gra. On the 6th inst., at East Dulwich, age" ' ' wi,;ow of the late David Samud 9 . ...-, 400 . ril' i°ll 6 ' lat O e n jo t h h n e 6Btohysi,ustts.,q.in Chichesteplace, " a ''' t he Mr. Samuel Haw rood, sen., aged 80. „ r , i ~i ' daff °f. On the sth inst., at Margate, aged 94, DO ;' s oo' ~ffeetl On the 4th inst., Mr. John Tars, of Char les '''' .... „....... ./ . i square, aged 7. __.--------,TO, ° —------------ 0 0 'lO .'', Luidon t erintod and Published hY . - M IL. (00a, 'pia 0 No. 112, Strand. Printer, at The Soo do Cg , Strand,.ixt the Precinct o, be 3,,,v0%, in ,-- - bliddetiol Oaturday, February 9, 10' ---------.....--..........; nd excluded from the hoffi.s ions, he woull use bia ,bes: ided. if a( t entirely, at, less'. '7, they gave New Zes and , 1848, it was suspended ; had a statement from tbeir i ' so much relied, that the rely ripe for a representative ) nominee government ad weep the Governor snd be )rovince. In conclusion , r the liberal :old gene ;pressed in fivour f el.f . - - - - mach be