The Sun. — London, England, 1851-03-15 00:00:00

atho is >urroY) al, said en con- °roe to as those Crow'l i „mow. honour tit il a g . it, rfeilOr l o s hop o f DS upon 3 , Bog ple." o create of the lith of to For_ laps, 1 1 me, bad er Or. •. a west ornate bad been unduly influenced on the subject by :Flog of machinery-by violent letters-.(Laughter)-as wail by violent speeches; and he could not close his eyes Sth the eff ec t o f th e N o bl e Lord's (J. Russell) letter of the November. Lord J. RUSSELL-The 4th. e t. REYNOLDS said that brought it closer to the anni earY of the Gunpowder plot.-(Hear.) It was a well modu production as far as Guy Fawkes was concerned shter)-and it had its ;exult.-(Hear.) Tne Bishop of tti vu s, ol3 , also, had written a most offensive letter as regarded o pre e lt.holics of thie country, in the preceding October, lest.) There at the same time moderation to his hearers. —••• I, l e st%) There was, however, another letter, written in No ue!' also which recently came to light the letter of the Right lion. Baronet the Member for Ripon, which would down to posterity . side by side with that of Noble Lord, and make the public exclaim, 2 0 Ir on this picture and on this." There Ras._ also th e s p eec h of the same statesman to in tr ast . with that of the Noble Lard, and the world w o uld ' l 2 l a'a between them. But it was gratifying to find thie Bill I' B bad, a ens as ever was protested for non-payment - had th?? it by the Right Hon Baronet , as well as by a m iirpisrinced statesman the Ea-1 of Aberdeen, and found Afe unneceesary. The public of Church this country were told thattihurch was in danger, but theses incere Protestants n y Zeived them. He would refer to the whole matter in clis se,;;;;*t an I a s k w hat it was? The Noble Lord had said it 1 an insult, but to make it an insult the man ought to have ,43 p os 'ended something pe'sonal. Could any man suppo - e the a 's'Pe intended to insult the Queen? The Noble Lori c ould thinkthat, nor could any reasonable mao. An iesult ; leperffnnal aff_ir, which subjected the insulter to pr• ebaStisement. Formerly insults were qu ely se tied s - neenix - Park, but ties insuP was to be settled by the re -Ipl of the Emancipation Act. lie hal ripe it ten years f his reithotit intermissi 'n in assisting a great Ir shman to . : o rY the question of emancipation And when e was strug il7g for em anc ip a tion, it was sugoeste as co ndition that le e is e h novereign should have a veto in the nominati n of t h it ~2Pa. This condition was rejected with scorn, and he ; 1;7 n Catholics had tow .it many years before theygot the •- 1 , 1 ; °11 ,. • Had emancivation been offered on the disgraceful Z degrading conditi ins conteine 1 in the Noble Lora's Bill it 6.7 1 1 1 (1 have been univers ally rejected. And yet, be cause Roman olic religious professors desired t- c irry out their religion ; w ording to their settlel forms, they were called insol nt t tinsesors. It was said that the nomination of Roman Ca -1)1411c bishops was an invasion of the Queen's prerogative. - to ere the y children to argue in that way ? He contended .. 11 t the nomination of bishops by the Pope did not invade Prerogative, and did not confer any territorial power. li o uall the Queen made a bishop it was the barony that con 'red the territorial power. Had the Pope's bull conferred . ` l 4 k e re of territory on Cardinal Wiseman? It had not ' rson him turf enough to "sod a lark.";-(Laughter.) That 4 111 required explanation. It meant he had not land ht"' to cover a l lark's remains.- (Laughter.) It gave "' no ecclesiastical dues. if the bull had run thus-but he :vaned if there was any bull at all - " I appoint A . B. to 4ercise spiritual jurisdiction over the Roman C a t holics of i ddlesex," there would be no objection to t hat - neither S so melt there to be any objection to the bull as it was worded, itonly contemplated spiritual objects. The Roman Ca bishops had presented an address to her Majesty, but h only signed their names without their titles , and so the y i violated no law. It was, however , said that 'what had r e: done by the Pope and the bishops w as an " nso- L aggression." If the whole English vocabulary were aided you could not find stronger terms of 'insult ews the Roman Catholic religion, the Roman e o kholic bishops, and the 10,000,000 of Roman Catho t,l, than were to be found in the replies of tho Pro- Zst bishops and clergy to the addresses on the , eject of Papal' aggression. He would read a few extracts • ." 40 the replies of the Anglican bishops to illustrate his snout. , ' b 011 t. The Bishop of London, in his rep l y , sa y s 4 °,Pory offends and disgusts the understanding. It makes glity to worship the creature with the worship due only Its Creator." In another place be speaks of " t he auda , o s v of the pretensions of the Church of Rom e-the base in , e 'ktitude of the Church of Rome." (Here he would ask, in ta taranthesis, of what bad the Church of Rome to be grate , ; gate Was it for taking away all her temporalities in the of Henry VIII., which now amounted to 10 , 400,000 /. ?) al Oo submit to Rome was to peril our salvat ion. The Ro , 1811 schism had an unchanging character o f evil. " This the reply of the Bishop of Bath and Wells. From o r Arc /shop of York he found that Rome was always the b captivity of the world, and to bring all nations '). l7a tlitst a tf r ir:g f in o h reign bondage. From the Bishop of Gloucester % s t 4 P 4 assumption was all but blasphemous, and that Popery e i l l ' l s art unholy thing. The Bishop of Oxford said that the 10 . 0 4 rnh of Rome roars when necessary, but uses the meekest t h ': mildest blandishments when it suits her purpose ; s i t ? Popery was a subtile, determined, and unclean ' 111 , 3'; that England was defiled by her pollutions. The l s r°P of Chichester said the Church of Rome was into , e i, 41 4. and she assumed a baseless and unscriptural authoe o x lt that they were vain assumptions. The Bishop of td, 'in another place, called Rome corrupt, and spoke of aI, curse of Popery." The Bishop of Rochester, that 40'7 poisoned the minds of the people by its false doc es.'"e'is The Biship of London spoke of the power of dark- Thell -4 - Bishop of Hereford spoke of the great apostacy of go ne, Then with regard to the discipline of the Church of t o .ule, he would ask the House to hear the fathers of the Pro ;tont Church. The Bishop of London spoke of its " errors ''ud superstitioas dogmas, alike opposed to Scripture and e l mnson sense - superstitions long ago doubted Tn. founded on legends displaying the grossestgnorance." Landon e were a few of the elegant extracts. The Bishop of k : n don spoke of the " slough of Romish corruptions-of the , /,`,? 58 and intolerable corruptions-of the Romish Church." tone Bishop of Oxford spoke with " horror of the doctrines of 11 ' 1 , a "-he bad queried that.- (Laughter. , The Bishop of Ba th and Wells spoke of pestilent errors of Rome. The 4 411 °P of Ripon, that Popery contained the •'elusions of i o eatners. The Bishop of Oxford, the dee corruptions f me. The Bishop of Manch ster ( we unders ood) s p oke of t he sa slough of Romish doctrines, and Papal superstition and Metr e . Th e Bi s hop of Gloucester spoke of the rev Wog Zstem of auricular confession, and the monstro' s supersti ' on of transubstantiation. The Bishop of Oxford described th e ,e Church of Rome as corrupt in doctrine anl idolatrous Practice. Then the establishmen' of a Catholic hierarchy was scolded in a similar manner. One bishop etlled it " a darts); aggression "-that was the Bishop ° I Sal sbury-" an indecent aggression," Oxford Presumptuous aggression," - York -" unparalleled and most ;110ostrous aggression," London. H e had 50 other extracts s r °4l answers to addresses , but he had p roduced enou g h, -.4 would not trouble the House further with them. Be t ltd them merely to ask the House at whic h aide was the ba lance of scolding.-(Hear.) If they w ent to Billin g sgate or to Pill-lane, in Dublin, no language of tis hwomen there to ti 'd equal the language used by the heads of the Church - tree their fellow-Christians. The language here stated ,used by ministers of the Gospel. who were told b y their *Own "to return good for evil , " - to "do g ood to those ° hated and to pray for:those who persecuted" and calum kutted them. Had they acted up to their creed? They had 0 ; t ' -they had poured this abuse on men who did not wish till nltend to do them a particle of harm.-( Hear.) The whole k :stion in dispute was this-that Cardinal Wiseman had tif i llY said he would . govern a county. This was not m el smug territorial jurisdiction. Cardinal Wiseman had de nied it-the Noble Lord (Lord &untie) had denied it-he 4 . ( 1d it; and yet there were rogues who circulated the b o u. er, and fools who believed it.-(Hear, hear.) It had hot h e that the Noble Lord's Bill had been emasculated ; Il ls o ne found that one of the clauses went even beyond 0 „ - ,_ 4 2th clause of the Emancipation Act. Further, he 4 t .'ended that there was no necessity for extending the 1);` able Ireland. He should be sorry that any Member should o r Ve to accuse him of using insulting or threatening ex &ed Itt_nas, but as a Roman Catholic and an Irishman he de- I the House and the Government to carry out the Bill in la th uld. They might carry it ont in En gland ; but the e a won ld make common cause with the E ng li s h Roman MA °lies, because they were weak , and because both were acked. Attack one part of the Roman Catholic body and attacked the whole body. It was said at first that Ire °dss was to be omitted. Had it been so he should have eo e,, -- r b ged the Government with cowardice and bull y in g . But "ornent had attacked both English and Irish Roman s Cat holics, and they would sink or swim together. (H ear, r.) He had great confidence in the Right Hon. Member Ripon, and in the Duke of Wellington, neither of whom I sa i , d suffer the great compact of 1829 to be violated. He n l l 4BO confidence in Lord Stanley, since he had said that st ru ,ousiness of the country ought not to be allowed to stand • le ak , o account of this question. Up till November last no 8 t n o Lord's name was more unpopular than that of Lor d os o atil eY-his name and illiberality were considered as syno gootis terms. But since then Lord Stanley and th e Noble eoPposite (Lord J.Russell) had changed I,laces.-(Hear.) to regretted this, for he had for twenty yea r s co nsidered Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) as the head of the eoliteral party, and looking at the Noble Lord as an enlight ik7and a talented Whig he had enlisted under his banners first, but now he had changed his position.-(Laughter.) .7 0 ; it was the Noble Lord who had changed his position. il° Noble Lord was now at the head of the bigots. There ;Is not a vu l gar , uneducated bigot in England that did not 4, ' rejoice in the Noble Lard. He was preferring a bill o f lt dicttnent against the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord had . 4 ce said he would attack the t e mporalities of the Irish Es- L ablished Church-but where was the Noble Lord's spore tation clause? Whilst the Noble Lord sat on that bench the man Catholics and Liberals thought they had a guarantee that their liberties were not to be infringed. They thought Ins Noble Lord would have returned to his liberality, and have said that the Roman Catholics ought not to be called i tSn to contribute to a small Protestant Church. But the tlbli Lord came down and t old them he would manacle • their bishops and fetter their religious freedom. This, then, w as their reward for their patienc e a nd lo y alt y . The Noble L ord said they must submit to the affront in his Bill. He "°old tell him " We won't." It was said the Pope had I,either spiritual or temporal power in these realms. The OPe had no temporal power, and ought not to have any, e ,,,_"t he had spiritual power. He wished it to be under et that his vote the other evening in support of Mr. t h 4 raeli's motion was to be construed , not as a vote on ° merits of the question - (Laughter) - it was a vote of ey 4.llt of confidence in the Minister. He was prepared to re iolllmnany such votes.-(Hear.) If he did not tote accotd hAto conviction he dared not show his face in Ireland. He e, e - ' 0 read that former Parliaments had withheld supplies be -116 , 8,5 they would not entrust the money with the then kii faCrY. As long as the Algerine and insulting measure pl ( kinet the Roman Catholics was on the table he was such to vote against the Ministry who could make such an Ll o lent and unpardonable assault on the religion of his fel ii notrymen. He could promise the Ministers this-un- I'l la TeY retraced their steps adopted civil and religious o s ' o r ,'3'. and governed, not merely garrisoned, Ireland, they • t sa nti neither have Roman Catholic votes nor Liberal Pro esiv‘allt ootes.-(Hear.) It had been asserted he did not le 41 0 vote according to the merits of the question (Mr. ....7 1 ;aeli's motion): he saw no merits at all in the question. Aer a o ti ghter.) ) He had only vot ed to show he had no eon eesoo in the . Ministry. He had learned this recently, that 147 Move in politics was only a move for office. tie be . la -,.ed the Protectionists were anxious to get Into office. Party occupied a small po sition -the position of thus bwr strangers in that House; but b y keeping together and e so ` u g their time they had it in their power to say which should occupy the Treasury benches. - (Hear.) He Ir k '. therefore make an offer. Ho was in the market. was totn bought on these terms. He would p ush one e ltr tY off that Witch, and place a nother on that beach, 1 3 , ItireY would consent Orst to abandon the Ministerial at u . l an_tireiy, and then to bring in a Bill to prevent the (tc.._mg Irish millions from dy ng in the workhouses . -at • e could only support them on the cOladitio h_bad _ ey put a stop to the system under wh ich 270 paupers - "II ( ' in Clare in Al - 20 week-that they introduced mea- Zs to relieve the only intergot now left in Ireland, the so"cultural interest, which now suffered irom their one-sided Val u t u , r ;i on -that they should legislate for /-1144;14 Of m hill. a ' Portion of the empire ; and for the purpose Of pushup ta r ' e l ?ot the object of their ofession, but what God and nat. of th i n tended her, for, the right arm, epd pot the drag-chOn, ne e , great and mighty empire.-A Hear.) No man Wgi anxious than he to draw close the bonds of connexion m e l sween the two countries , no hod ecoosionally preached on aezn_oct,her side of the Channel, not religinns, bi..t political the aim of which had always . D.ogl3 tO gags OOP! noo,closer the bonds of the two countries, no throe Ireland -"gnt emulate the industry of Lngland, might profit by her THE SUN,_ LONDON, S*TURDAY EVENING, prosperity, and be-whet unfortunately she was not-a nation of freemen, enjoying the comforts and r ecessaries of life, instead of what she was-a degraded community of paupers.-( Hear, he:l..) He would not say that the present race of Englishmen 114e1 reduced her to that state, but their ancestors had by their legislation marred her advancement. It was now their duty to retrace their steps, and to adopt a wiser mad re ore humane course. Speaking as a Roman Catholic, he looked upon the present Bill as an open and wanton insult to his country.-(Hear.) At the same time, he begged to be understood as not speaking in a sectarian spirit. The population of the United Kingdom numbered about 30,000,000. Of that number a third were Roman Ca tholics; another third were Episcopal Protestants, and the remaining third was composed of all other sects. They were therefore a mixed community of Christians, which name, if they deserved, they ought at once to renounce this anti- Christian Bill, which was far more calculated to make them hate than love one another, and which, if persisted in, would make them the laughing-stock of the world.-(Cheers.) Sir B. HALL wished to offer a very few observations on the subject, as it was his intention to give a decided vote in favour of the second reading of the Bill.-(Cheers.) The Honourable Member who bad just spoken had told the House that he and those who usually acted with him were a marketable commodity, and were ready ou the present occasion to dispose of themselves to either the one party or the other who should reject this measure.-(Hoar, hear.) He thought it would be well if, before attempting to pur chase the Honourable Gentleman and his friends, any party on that side or the other should first inquire the value which the Honourable Gentleman and his friends put on themselves, and then consider whether they were worth the price. -(A laugh.) If they looked to the conduct of these Hon. Gentleman, voting as they had done, first on one side and then on the other-if they watched their proceedings, he would say since 1832, about which time they first ap peared in the House, they would find that protesting against the Government, and declaring against the coercion Acts of that Government, they had, nevertheless, given that Go vernment their support.-(hear.) He believed that they would again be ready to make an outcry, and be again found supporting the Government against whom they raised it. He had been much pleased with the admirable and tempe rate tone of the speech et . the Noble Lord who moved the amendment, that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. The Noble Lord bad stated that from 1598 down to the present time no demand had been made by the Roman Catholics of this country for a hierarchy, and that it had been considered unnecessary by the Pope.- (Hear.) If that were so, where was the necessity now, in 1850, of the Pope coming forward and taking a step which very properly had been called an aggression on the Crown of Ors country ? - (Hear, hear.) He was unable to see any necessity for the appointment of these bishops. The vicars apostolic had sufficed for the wants of the Roman Catholic inhabitants of this country, and there was no occasion for the late proceedings, except for the purpose of giving power to Roman Catholic bishops. Had he been a member of the Romish Church he should have protested against the as= suraption of any such powers.-(Hear, hear.) They all knew that they had protested against the attempt of one of the prelates of their own Church to introduce a Bill which would have increased the powers of the episcopal body, and that they had defeated that attempt.-(Hear.) It had been said that the feeling of the country was not opposed to the late aggression of the Pope. After the manifestation which had taken place nothing could be more absurd or more fatal than to indulge in such a supposition. He was surprised that any one dared to tnake such an assertion after the re turns m ,ved for by the Ho‘ . Member for Warwickshire had ben laid in the table. It appeared from those returns that every county in England, with the extraordinary exception of Kent - the seat of the archiepiscopate-had held meetings on the subject-that hundreds of thousands had met together for the purpose of testifying against the assumption of these ecclesiastical titles, and that nu less than 1,604,000 persons had signed the addresses presented to her Majesty on the subject.-(Hear, hear.) It might be said that those ad dresses had come from the clergy and from the rural districts, w here no great liberality of sentiment existed.-( Hear, hear.) That was not the case. He had the honour to represent a portion of this metropolis remarkable for the liberal opinions of its inhabitants-St. Pancras. In that parish there were 18,500 householders, and he had presented a petition signed by 14,363 of those householders, praying the House to take measures for the purpose of marking their indignation at such aggression, and for effectually checking it.-(Hear.) An appeal had been made in this question to religious liberty. -(Hear, hear.) It was to prostitute the phrase so to use it. - (Hear.) They were now endeavouring to legislate for re ligious liberty, and against religious donsination.-(Cheers.) Roman Catholic Members had talked as if their religion was so excessively tolerarrt. He believed it was the Hon. Member for Mayo who said that if he wore asked why there was greer er religious freedom in Grea Brit sin than Rome, he 'would answer that it was because England was England. But why did not the Hon. Gentleman reverse the proposition and strengthen the argument by saying that it was because Rome was Rome.-( Hear.) Because the Roman Church bad ever been and still was intolerant. (No, no.) If the Hon. Gentleman had ever been at Rome, he would have known that Protestants were not allowed to worship God within the walls. No one surely could:have the presumption to deny that. Was the Hon. Gentleman aware that his Protestant fellow-subjects who died at Rome were buried in a remote corner of the city-that no prayer was allowed to be said over their 1)er:1y-that no monument could be erected to a father or child without the sanction of the Propagand or if allowed, that no inscription c ui t be put on without the sanction of that society ? Sir W. BARRON-That is not true. I have erected one myself to a friend. Sir B. HALL The non. Baronet might contradict him, but he must excuse him if he did not stand corrected by him. -(A laugh.) He could tell the Hon. Baronet of en instance with regard to a per son of hi. own country who had died at R me. After a great deal of trouble permission was at last granted for the erection of a tombstone, but no inscription having any allusion to Scripture, or any extract from Scrip t re, was allowed. The person promised that he w uld not put a Scriptural inscription on the stone, but would wree some Latin verses, and lay them before the Propagaeda for their sanction. They were as follows:- " - quo claris fneram prolate puellis, Illa eg , hoc brevi condita sum tumulo Cui formam pulcherrimam charitis tribuere decoram Quam Deus cunctis artibus erudiit." These :verses containing more fa'se quantities than they did lines, were allowed to be put on the tomb, and yet, not e single allusion to Scripture was permitted.- (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman said he would not refer to that portion of the t<ill which had been withdrawn. Wi , ll regard to synodical action, he, if he had been a Roman Ca holic, w uld have opposed it. If any attempt had been made to give the bishops of the Church of England that species of synodical action which would have allowed them to interfere with tem poral affairs, in the same way as Roman Catholic bishops did, he should have been ready to oppose that proposition. The oble Lord who introduced the Bill had shown that the mo ment the Roman Catholic pre'ates met in synod, they did in terfere in temporal matters. - (Hear.) They were agents of the Pope, and though they had every species of religious freedom, he thought the moment they in'erfered in temporal affairs the people of this country had a right to rise up and denounce such inte ference. He wished to make one re mark as to the manner in which the present Bill would be brought into operation. If he understood the massive, no pr• ceedings could be taken under it without the sanction of the Attorney-Gene al. Last session the solicitor-General stated that if any person felt aggrieved on public gr unds, such was the state of the law that he had only to lay the case before the Attorney-General, who w uld endorse it with the formula " let right be done." But in a case like the present, he thought it ought to be open to anybody to prosecute for the essumption of ecclesiastical titles. - (Hear, hear.) The largest and broadest powers ought to be given ,n such a case, and the initiative ought not to be left to the caprice of the Attorney-General for the time.-(Hear, bear.) In making these observations he might be denounced as one careless of religious liberty. It was hardly fair to put such a eonstructien up ‘u his words, for his desire was to treat the question as a temporal one, and as one relati .g to the pre rogative of the Crown. Whilst he wishe ito declare on the one hand that the Pope should not have temporal power in this country, he wished also to derriere to the S Nereign that they would not al,ow a divided allegiance in matters depend ing n the authority of the Crown. It was on these grounds alone that he had come to the determination to support the second reading of the Bill.-(Cheers.) Mr. R. PALMER wished to state the reasons which would lead him to vote against the second reading of the Bill--(Cheers from the Irish Members.) He was far from being insensible to the deep and strong feelings which had been manifested by the people of this country on this ques tion. If he could have believed that that expression of feel ing really conveyed the deliberate and well-considered opinion of the country that legislation of this kind was re. ditical danger, he should h ave h es i tated quired to protect t he interests of the p ublic an d to deliver the be' c h o e u fo e r t e r e trustingfrom a any p any conclusions to which h e m i g h t have come in opposition to it. But from what he had seen he lieved that the public did not view it as a political question, but as a mixed political and reli g ious question. In approach ing theseemed t s o u b t j h e i c n t k f from rightthi s o pointne-o o of tthe view, which eve ryspeake r theological but the political view-he confessed he was much more alive to the dangers which would follow from wrong legislation to the great principle of civil and religious liberty than to any im maginary political danger from the aggressions of the Church of Rome. It was necessary to start with a clear and distinct view of what was meant by civil and religious liberty in this country, for if they did that they would sweep away a large portion of the arguments in favour of the Bill, arid of those other arguments which drew a fine distinction between spiritual and ecclesiastical things. He should not forget to deal with the question as between the Church and Protestant Dissenters. In this country, in which so much liberty was given in ecclesiastical and spiritual matters to Churches and religious bodies not connected with the State, Dissenters were allowed to make ecclesiastical arrangements-to hold synods and assemblies. The Free Church of Scotland, which dated its origin as of yesterday, and which separated from the Established Church because it (the Free Church) would not recognise the principle of State interference in Church government, immediately on its separation organised through out Scotland a vast parochial system, consisting of kirk ses sions, presbyteries, synods, and assembly.-( Hear.) Why , therefore, should episcopocy be denied that which had been allowed to presbytery? The Wesleyans in this country had their meetings and conference -the Presbyterians of Ulster had their synods--and the Episcopal Church in f'cotlandetas allowed to make those ecclesiastical arrangements which the conviction of its members thought right, and all without the i n terference of the State. He was perfectly aware that it was said that such liberty was inapplicable to a Church con nected with a head in a foreign country.-(Hear.) He should have to consider that point in the course of his observa tions. It was impossible to understand it unless they first got a notion of what was meant among themselves by religious liberty. They would also have to consider the prin.• ciple of finality in ecclesiastical arrangeme s u r t r s r ,a g n e d m : n a t y s w hether or not they shou ld not be c hanged and developed. an If the principle of freedom in ecclesiastic s were to be allowed , ho w extrava g ant to say that because a particular Church had t o r centuries been conten o twr becauseith it mis sionarieshad no not t had synods ot be d u allowed h e t o s amvee time bishops,it sho u ld no t possess them whorl it required them. - ( Hear, hear.) m ust not the Church itself be the judge of what it requi-es in a different state of things? -(Hear ) If what it did interfered with the State then 1 t the State step in, but to make our selves the judges whether the things desired by the Church were requisite or salutary for it or not, savoured iu the last oegree of persecution.(Uear.) Before lie entered upon the difficulties attached to the question he mutt remind them ' that the Roman Catholics held as a first principle the supremacy of the Pope in ecclesiastical matters. - ( Hear, hear,) To say that they tolerated Roman Catholics, but excluded this principle, would be a practical contradiction.- (Hear, hear.) He wished to consider whether the principle which they recog rised is other religious bodies was inapplicable to the case of the Romee Catholics, Abstractedly viewed he acknowledged there Wll RP illiflc4taPt betweeo them. He ad. mated that the other religioue communities of Br i t ish sub jects acknowledged no foreign interference. He did not deey the difficulty, but wished to suggest that it did not lie at the root of the Church question, but at the root of that question which they had settled long ago when they disagreed N vbcthei they should grant toleration to the Roman Catholic religion-rvilset4F they Should be allowed to live a peleet bMl —ctiear.) doulA aim were is east times evils on this &abject which it were sought to be suppressed by legislation, but what was the result? The Catholics were found to be a dangerous political party, but by legis lation it was found they were made more dangerous, and le gislation against them was abandoned. Had anything occur red since then to induce a retrograde policy? Though it might be true that the character of the Remisli Church was inflexib'e—that its principles in the abstract were immut able—though it might be true if it gained political ascen dancy, another Marian persecution might follow—he did not say it would, but would assume it—he could not be blind to the fact that the relation between that Church and the po litical powers of Europe had been altered, and that they must now look to the matter as statesmen, divested as much as possible of the prejudices of the past. Let them look at the actual state of things and say whether they had not to deal with the Roman Catholic Church more as a religious than as apolitical opponent.—( Hear, hear.) Its religion was embraced by 7,000,000 or 8,000,000 of our fellow-subjects, who could not be induced to abandon it. The nation of a divided allegiance was exploded. The same arguments were now used which Blackstone, in his Commentaries, referred to, when he stated that the mark of high treason was set on Popish priests on a civil and not on a religious account, " f.:r every Popish priest of course renounces his allegiance to his temporal sovereign on taking orders, that being inconsistent with his new engagement of canonical obedience to the Pope. And the same may be said of an obstinate defence of his authority here in a formal reconcilia tion to the See of Rome, which -he statute construed to be a withdrawing from one's natural allegiance." They had, however, decided that their legislation should not be based on such a principle. Roman Catholics denied a divided alle giance, for they said they gave the Pope nothing which the Crown claimed.—(Hear,' hear.) Having given them political rights, was it consistent to invade that prior and more sacred right—religious freedom ?—(Hear, bear.) Then he would ask the question, whether there was any ground in the argument, that that which had been done was a matter fit for legislation, as a violation of the public law of Europe. —(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department considered that if anything was demonstrable it was that, namely, that a violation of the public law of Europe had taken place. Now he would ask, what was that which was called the public law of Europe? A total misconception existed upon that point. What was called the public law of Europe, was in fact a generalisation of the usages, practices, and customs of the different coun tries in Europe; and if they looked into those they would find that nearly the whole of them were taken from coun tries in which the Roman Catholic religion was the established religion of the State.—("Hear" from the Irish Members.)"The case of an established religion was entirely different from one which was purely on a voluntary principle. There were the cases of Prussia and the etherlands, where the establishment was on a small scale, and where certain ar rangements under a concordat were carried out. Under the • system here prevailing :he re-ognition of the prelates-of the Church was granted, and even the clergy paid, so :hat it was not at all extraordinary that a condition should be attached •o these privileges that no new institutions should be intro duced without the concurrence of the Crown.— ( Hear, hear.) In Lenmark they did not tolerate the Roman Catholic reli gi nat all. And with respect to Russ a, that was not a happy country to draw a parallel from, for it was there pu nishable by banishment and confiscation of golds for a man to go from one religion to another.—( Hear, hear.) Ws were not likely t'. learn much in the way of religious tolera tion from Russia.—(Hear, hear.) It was quite a fallacy to suppose that this country should deal with these bish ps and sees in a manner different from that in which they dealt with other ecclesiastical questions.—(Hear, hear ) With respect to the spee hof the Noble Lord in introducing that mea • aura, he thoueht it must have struck everybody that, able as that speech undeniably was, the last part of the speech was an answer to the beginning. —t Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had refereed to what was done in various other countries, and also to what happened here in the time of William the Conqueror and Edward I. But di 1 the Noble Lord adopt the policy of either of those two princes ? No such thing. ( Hear.) Did head-,pt the policy of the foreign stat a referred to? He d=d not. Some of these regulations ware to the effect that every newspaper issued for the regu lation of the Roman Catholic Church should have the s•al of the sovereign, or some official attached to it in order to give it orce and effect of the kingdom. Did the Noble Lord propose to do anything of that "ort? He did not; for the untry would 'auction no such plan, the Protestant fee ing of the nation would vote against such ' measure Then what had the Nob e Lori been 4oivg on that oecasio There w a no mid le course for thein. They should take upon them' elves the responsibility of giving those privileges and advantages to the Roman Catholics, and allow them to make their own arrangements for their own eccies astical matters or prept..st against the voluntary system and the priocivle of religious liberty; and, instead of facilitating their ,anagemeot, prohibit their practice altogether.—(Hear.) Su-h a course as the 1 tter would not certainly be in accoed• ance with the principle of civil and religioui liberty. - (Hear.) In =elgium he was informed thy could mat , * as many bishops as th y pleased.—(Hear.) The only iimit was that the peo 1, would say, under certain circumstances, " If you mak , more bishops than we want we won't kee? them." ~elgium, then, was an exc ption. Then there were our Anglo. Saxon brethren on the other side of the Atlantic; did they interfere, he would ask, with the appointment of bishops ? They did no such thing; they permitted such ap pointments to be made whenever deeo•ed necessary. Even in the free states of South America, where after the revolu tion the concordat with Rome had been broken, the Pope had since made many ecclesiastical appointments, which had never been questioned.— (Hear.) The next argument to which he would refer was the assertion that this act of the Pope's was an insult to the Qleen's supremacy, and an invasion of territorial power —that it was, in fact, an as gumption of political power, and not a mere ecclesiastical arrangement. Now, he confessed he was not an advocate for the manner in which the act complained of had been done; it seemed to him to have been arrogant and presumptuous. --(Hear, hear.) But be did not think that would be a good reason for their legislating upon the subject.—(Hear.) If her Majesty was really insulted, there was not one amongst them that would think that scarcely anything which _ . could be done would be sufficient to vindicate such an out rage.—(Hear.) Never in the history of this country was there one wh filled the throne of these realms with more dignity, or whose virtues in private life. were more estimable and worthy of imitation than our present gracious Sovereign. - ( Hear, hear.) If he could view that act as an insult to the Queen, there was no extent of legislation to which he would not be prepared to go- (Hear) although, perhaps, that would not quite justify him. But he thought it was the best course to pursue in public as well as in private life - namely,, not to resent as an insult that which we were not sure was intended as such.—(Hear, hear.) For his part he did not believe that any insult was malt in the present instance. He thought that, whether justifiable or not, that act was not done as an insult.—(Hear, hear.) Neither did he think it was a territorial invasion. He could not feel that it w s fur any other object Ulm to organise a diocesan episcopancy, for the ecclesiastical regulation and management of certain localities. These were net words of political meaning. That was a language which existed in the Church many centuries ago, before anybody had ever heard of politics at all. (Hear, hear.) W hen one heard of the Bishops of Smyrna and of Antioch, one did not think that they chimed any ter ritorial authority in these places.— (Hear, heir.) What was proposed to be done by that Bill? To take away that diocesan episcopacy, and leeislate, in fact, against a name more than anything else. The Hon. and Learned Member here referred to the circumstances of officers of the Viceregal Court in Irel end forgetting the clauses of the Emancipation Act, and calling the Roman Catholic bishops in the lists of the Castle by their ecclesiastical titles. But by what they proposed in the present Bill, if a free Episcopal Church was to be formed in England to-morrow, it w , ,uld be prohibited as well as a Roman Catholic one. (Hear.) With respect to the operation of the measure in Scotland, he considered it would be equally mischievous as to eccle siastical titles. He could not Think, therefore, that this was an assumption of territorial dignity, or a usurpation of the temporal p Aver of the Croe n.—; Heir.) He thought when the absurdity of the distinction between bese new bishops and the vicars aoostolic came t be known, it woul f cause a good deal of wonder. It was said, indeed, by some that the establishment of the vicars apostolic was an excellent arrange ment; and that nobody had objected to them. The fact was, they were nearly identical. Yet the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Marylebone, would not tolerate one when he would the other. It was well known that no arraugem nt of the Roman Catholic Church in this country was made with the consent of the Crown. The vicars apostolic had been thus appointed : In the time of Gregory XV. a certain per son, named William Bishop of Chalcedon. had been made a vicar apostolic in this country. The Hon. and Learned Member referred to the bull by which this appointment had been made, and which was as follows: —" Qui auctoritate et jurisdiction" Yicarii episcopi generalis fulciatur, quoque per s nes otnnes, tam ecclesiasticas quer" laicas, intra Ang iam degen'es, secundum canones et ecclesiaticas consuetudines regal et gubernet." In the time of enedict XII., in 1688, another appointment of a like kind bad been made, and it had been done in the same way as the present mat er had been done. In his recent letter the Pontiff had d'clared that England had already been divided into four districts; each of which h d had a vicar apostolic at its head; and that this had so lasted till the time of Gregory XV I. These districts were the London, the Western, the Midland, and the Northern. In the time ofJames 11., and some time be ore his abdication, the bishops of the Church of England had made an appeal to him on the subject of these four vicars apostolic It was as follows :—" If you would please, by your It yal proclamation, to inhibit the four Romish bishops who style themselves vicars anostolical. and by a forei n authority, not derived from your Crown, ride circuit in the land, and have presumed to tantonise this your kingdom into four p rov i nces , an d to di v id e i t among t h emse l ves (having p r i n t e d m ins o f i t accor di ng l y ) , exerc i s i ng t h ere i n a jurisdi c ti on , o f w hi c h the respective bishops have b een long p oesest , and which by the laws of England belong un questionably to them." What was the ditierence, he would ask, between those and the lately appointed persons? No difference whatsoever, except that some were called vicars apostolic, and the others were called bishops; in one case the local ty over which they presided was called a district — in the other a diocese.—(Hear, hear.) There was no difference except in name. The thing was for some time now in operation, and he thought sufficiently long to show them that it was after all but an ecclesiastical arrangement; and while it remained so the Hon. Member for Marylebone thought it the best arrangement in the world.— (Hear, hear. and laughter.) The Noble Lord at the heal of the Government had referred to the manner in which political matters had been introduced into the discussions of the synod which had been held in Ireland. vo sooner had they assembled than they had begun to meddle with politics. Now, it should be remembered that the principle of civil as well as of religious liberty belonged to an ecclesiastic as well as to any other individual—(Hear)—and one could not pre vent, if freedom was permitted to a voluntary Church, the pastor of that Church from deliberating on and taking notice of those public questions which touched the boundaries of re ligion on the one hand, and concerned the State on the other. --(Hear, bear.) Whatever they did they had no right in a free country to prevent any class of men from meeting and expressing an opinion upon what concerned them.— ( Hear, hear.) The Hun. Baronet the Member for Oxford (Sir R. li, Inglis) had designated the Irish Colleges as " Godless." Now, if his opinion was true the other parties bad a right to express a similar opinion upon the same subject, and if not true they had as good a right to change it and be mistaken as the lion. Baronet.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the landlord principle he found the synod giving exhortations to the people to obey the laws under all circumstances, and not to be led astray by . evil instigators, no matter what might be. In this free country no party their could sufferings be blamed for addressing his poorer fellow subjects in the language of advice, and if some sympathy for their condition should be manifested it could not be consi dered strange or unnatural. The State was so much in debtsd to that religion, which had for one of its maxims, " Fear God, honour the King," that they should give some latitude to those who taught that religion, even if it was liable sometimes to degenerate into excess.—( Hear.) lie bad no fears for the Church of England from the efforts of Rome ; on the contrary, the openness of these efforts made them less dangerous. All that the Pope had done was to change four vicars apostolic into eight bishops, and he did not see what effect that could have against the Crown or the Parliament of this kingdom. There might be circurnstence.s under which th e y might be calla upon 0 legislate, but he did not think the present was one of them.—(Hear, hear. ) Tits prsent Zll was not effective; it did not touch the evil it wag intended to meet.-(Hear, hear.) How it could be worth the while of the country to have such an agitatiim on this subject. front one end to the other—how it could be worth the while of Parliament to be thus discussing it, hav ing postponed all financial arrangements, and other mere important questions, was more than he could answer, and he would leave to others to explain; but he did not conceive he should be doiue his duty by those great principles of civil and religious liberty, it he did not enter his protest against the Bill before the flouse.—(Cheers.) Sir It. II INGLIS said that his Hon. and Learnel Friend who had just sat down had concluded his elaborate and in genious, but. he wee bound to add, his fallacious speech, with the expressio i of an opinion, in which he (Sir R. H. Inglis) entirely concurred, and to which it was not, therefore, neces sary that he should further advert. Neither would he be tempted by the allusion made to himself to enter into a consideration of what he might have formerly said on the question of the system of education which had been intro duced into Ireland by the Government of Sir R. Peel. It was enough for hi.n to say that he had not renounced the opinions he had formerly expreesed upon that point. But he should observe that his Hon. and Learned Friend had, in his opinion, proceeded on a great fallacy in all his historical re ferences. Hie Hon. and Learned Friend had talked of the Episcopal Protestant Church of Scotland, of the Free Church in that country. of the Wesleyan Confzrence, and of the possibility oft Free Episcopal Church springing up in this country; and then his Hon. and Learned Friend had asked whether they were prepared to legislate in any one of those cases. But there was an essential differ ence between those cases and the act of aggression whic t they bad then to c insider. All the relig ous commu nit es to which hi 4 . 110 n. and, Learned Friend had referred f rmed a system of internal o'ganisatiem, and were dependent on r o parties except their own volun ary ass ciations.— r Hear, hear.) But the body with which they had then to deal was one, owing at least a divided, if not an entire, allegiance to a foreign power, - (Hear, hear.) He had him self held i his hand that day a petition from the Wesleyan Conference, in which the petitioners stated that they refused to recognise the Sovereign of another state as the fountain of honour and authority in this country. It was that fact which constituted the great and fundamental distinction between the cases to which his Hon. and Learned Friend had referred, and the case on which they bad then to decide. In order to show the peculiar position occupied by Roman Catholics in this and in other countries, he had only to quote a passage front the eminent person who had to govern the spiritual affairs been sent over by the Pope of England. " The Catholics," said Dr. Wiseman or Bishop Wiseman, " are not, and never have been, merely a collection of persons holding certain opinions in common, but they are a systematised and organised religi us community, rVesenting here the Cs tholic Church of tee univer,e."— (Hear, t ear.) The fact was that the Roman Catholics of England could never be treated as a distinct re ligious body, such as the Wesleyan Methedi,ts or the members of the Free Church of Scotland- They were portions of a general system, which, to quote the celebrated apostolical letter, " revolved round the centre of unity." They had always heard that the Church of Rome whether it expressly sought or not to enforce its claim— did in effect assume that it possessed a right over every baps tiaedperson in the Christian world; and when that cuminl stance had been referred to en a late occasion, an Hon. Mem ber added, "And so it ought." - And'then, again, the Noble Lord who had moved the areendinent which they were then considering bad told them that his Church claimed every baptised soul. They should remember, therefore, that they had to deal with a Church which admitted no salvation out of its limits, and which, in eonsequeneee very justly and con sistently claimed the care otevery person who had ever been baptised. He hardly liked to follow the Noble Lord in his reference—a reference which must have been painful to himself—to the number of Roman Catholic Peers who h a d resisted the aggression made by the chief of their religion; and he would not quote their names. But this he would say 'of them, that, while they w ere pre-eminent in rank, they were not inferior in.talent and in character to those whose address had been presented by Mr. Langdale to Dr. Wiseman. The Hon. Gentleman who had seconded the amendment had referred with peculiar pleasur' to What had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Ripen (Sir .1. Graham), and from a Noble Earl in another place (the Earl of Aberdeen), upon that subject. But the 'Noble Earl in question, and hi s Right H n. Friend too, if he was not much mistaken, had spoken of the aggression itself in language as strong as that of his Noble Friend at the head of the Government, or as that of any Member of either House of Par liament. The Hop. Gentl man the Membe for the city of Dublin (Mr. Reynolds) sh tad not, therefore console him self with the vote of his Right Hon. Friend, and forget the countervailing character ()this speech in re f erence t o t h e ag gression which had given !;tee to the Bill. The difference between his Right Hon. Friend and those who were dis posed to deal with the case by legislative enactment, was not as to the character of the aggression, but merely as to the mode it which it should be met. There were persona who thought that it ought to be met with all the powers of he law, while the-e were others who thought that such A mode of proceeding would be improper lid ins fficient But they were both opposed to, that measure which had roused the country from oue en of it to the other. The eight Hon. Baron,t the Member for Marylebone (Sir B. hall) had told them of Ite number of persons who bad signed the petitions presented against that act of aggression, ant of those who had signed the address .re her Majesty—a number greater perhaps • ban had ever before signed any similar documents. And What was the body from which the first and most important expression of opinion had emanated ? Why, it was that distinguished body of which his Hon. and earned Friend was himself a member, and of which he and another were the only two who had not signed the address agreed to upon the subject,. (Hear, hear.) Then again, that important and influential, and by no means specially bigotted body, the attorneys and stdicitors, had, to the number of 6,b04 joined their supplications to those which had proceeded from so many other quarters, praying thateffeetive measures might be taken to meet that act of Papal aggrcssi.n. Whether the measure then under their consideration was adequate to the attainment of its professed object he would not then stop to inquire. All he desired to state was, that he would receive the least instalment in respect to a principle. The principle for which he contended was contained in the Bib, and he should, therefore, support it. But at the same time he was quite ready to admit that lie was not satisfied with the general conduct of her Majesty's Government upon the subject, any more than he was satisfied with the parti cular measure thee before the House. On the 22J of October last, the first news had arrived in England of that which the Pope had decreed on the 29th of September. Was there no mode by which her Majesty' s G overnmen t could have met that aggression, except by the Bill they had introduced into that House on the 7th of February? -(Henn) His Hon. Friend the Member for N ewark (Mr. J. Stuart) had sug gested on a late occasion that there was a constitutional and obv ous course by which the mind and will of the Crown might have been made manifest to the Court of Rome; and that was by a proclamation. A proclamation from tie Crown might or might not, according to its subject-matter, have a l eg i t i mate i n fl uence in this country; but with respect to foreign countries, a procla mation of the Crown wa s as f ull an d sufficient an exponent of the will of the S overe i gn power among t ie as any Act of Parliament to which the Crown was a consenting party. In a well-known case t h e G overnment o f B raz ils had entirely disregarded an Act of Parliament passed in this country, and had stated t hat they h a d nothing to do with our internal legislation, which could not regulate their con duct. He said, therefore, that, so far as foreign countries were concerned, an Act of Parliament could not have more force or validity than a p r oclamation from, the Sovereign. He believed that her Majesty ought, in the first instance, to have met that aggrerion on her Crown and dignity, on the independence of her realms,:en the integrity of the Church, and on the faith and cons cience of her people, by issuing at once a proclamation t and l et him say, t h a t as i n Rome the proclamation of the hull In Cana Domini affixed to a church in that city was held to be a proclamation to the whole world, so a proclamati on from her Majesty, wherever it was affixed, might be held to convey to he Sovereign of Rome the determin e d w i l l of t h e S overe i gn o f this country to resist any act of aggression on his part. But there were other modes in which the will of the Sove reign of these realms might have been conveyed to the 'Sovereign of Rome On the 29th of February, 184 e, a Bill bad been brought down to that House for regulating our dip lomatic intercourse with the Courteof Rome. That Bill had not received the Royal assent until the 4:h of September following. It had been forced through the Upper House with breathless haste, but it had been suffered to remain six months in that House without any effort, or at least without any serious effort , ha vin g been made by the Government to ensure its adoption. During that time the people of England bad expressed almost un anim ously their opposition to the measure; petitions, sighed by not less than 3,500 members of the parochial clergy of England, had been presented against it; and he believed that if her Majesty's Government had consulted the feelings of the peopl e of England, they would never have thought of pressing it forward. They had, however, pressed it forward, and the Royal assent had subse quently been given to the measure. But what had they done since? They had by their own mod e of proceeding precluded themselves from that most ebvioire course of entering into diplomatic intercourse with the Court o f R o me under the provisions of their own Bill, and they had suffered the Bishop of Rome to perpetrate an act of aggression which had excited among us all that indignation, while by the common intercourse of diplomitic life they might tia , e explained to the Pope their views, and have in duced him to withdraw his proposition.—(He4r, hear.) But after her Majesty's Government had tailed to proceed in that matter, either by a proclamation or by dipl o matic intercourse, they had a third alternative open t o th em . Her Majesty had a fleet in the Mediterranean, and there were such ports as Ancona and Civita Vecchia in the Papal dominions. Those ports or at least one of them, might have been oppor tunely visited by leer Majesty s forces, and representations, diplomatic in their language, might have been conveyed through the admiral commanding the fleet—(Herr, hear, and laughter) upon the subject of th e act of aggress i on, i n the same way in which France and Aust r i a h a d t a k en pos session of cities and fortresses in the R oman terr i tory f or t h e purpose of conveyi n g their diplomatic views.—(hear, hear, and renewed laughter.) He saw 110 . rearm why England could not do what France and Austria had done more than once. But if a proclamation. at home had failed -if diplo matic interference had . failed if armed intervention had failed in securing the object of her • Majesty's Government, then her Majesty might have referred to her faithful Com• mons—to the re presentatives of her faithful people in P ar li amen t assembled, and have endeavoured to persuade them to pass an enactment commensura t e with the danger and the difficulty of the c r i s i s. It Govern ment had to take the la w as their alternative, instead of a oroclamation, or diplomacy, or war—it the matter could not be settled without legislation, then, he said that Parliament ought to have been summoned at once; for if the case de served the attention of parliament at all- •if it deserved it in b February, it deserved i t in October, 7 - and he co u ld see ne reason to 'justify her Maje st y 5 Ministers from seeking the counsel of Parliament in Feb February. which ought not to have induced them to have asked it when the insult had first been offered. But in considering the question, they should look first to the law as it was, and then to the law as it ought to be. Now, it appeared that two of the first lawyers in Eng land, his Honourable and Le.arned Friend t h e M em b er fer Newark, and the ex-Lord Chancellor of I re l and, h a d dis tinctly stated it as their opinion that the law, as it already existed, had been violated by that act of Papal aggression, and he believed that opinion was also entertained by many , of the highest authorities upo n the subject—by Dr. Twiss, by Mr. Butt, and by Mr. Warren. It was certainly the opinion of the collective wisdom of the bar. Now he wished to know whether her Majesty's Ministers had consulted the law offi cers of the Crown upon that subject, and le more especially whether they had consulted the law advisers of the Crown in Ireland, who would, no doubt, have correctly represented to them the difficulties of legislating upon the question for that country. If they had not consulted the law advisers of the Crown in Ireland, then they had, in his opinion, been guilty of a neglect of their duty. Ile readily admitted that by the legislation of the last few years the atatutable pe nalties had been withdrawn from Acts of an cashier period bearing upon that subject; but he had yet to learn that the penalties at common law ettached to such proceedirg , had been repealed. Ile Lelieved that in that matter her Majesty's Goveroweee migh t have appealed to the existing state to the law, with as much certainty of success as anything that was contingent could supply. But if they ...had not done so, they ought at least to have taken counsel of Parliament a t the earliest possible moment. And yet, ~. notwithstanding their delay in convoking Parliament, the greater part of their measure, when introduced, had been found by themselves, and not by their antagonists, to be either inadequate to its object, or to go further than that object; and having the i - iaselves become ashamed of it, they had asked Parliament t a allow them, in part, to withdraw it. Now, it appeared to hi. m (Sir R. H. Inglis) that the pre amble of the Bill was n tiserably insufficient for meeting. the requirements of the use. The preamble ought, in his opinion, to have recited all the previous statutes which pro hibited that species of a,;gression, and likewise the Papal brief and the ap•ostoli: letter which had produced that excitement and agitation throughout the country. The Bill itself ought, at the same time, to have been much more stringent an td extensive in its operation, for it would leave untouched . some of the greatest evils to which the Papal system had gi yen rise in this country. His Hon. and Learned Friend tb e Member for Plymouth (Mr. R. Palmer) said that they aught not to legislate any further upon that subject. becat Ise they bad already recognised the existence of the Roman Catholic priesthood among us ; but. he ( Sir R. H. Inglis 1 de Hied that former concessions should be taken as a plea for perpetual wrongs and aggression. Six weeks ago he (Sir I H. Inglis) would have said that the Noble Lord at the In .ad of the Government was the per sonification of the chars eter which the late Sidney Smith ascribed to him when he declared that in whatever else the Noble Lord might be d efficient, no man surpassed him is courage; but that vit . iity had now deserted him Why should the Noble Lord recede? He had not been defeated by a 1 o•tile division, a rid, if his present course was not attributable to the weak, 2ess of his Cabinst, it must be the result of some influence, not obvious to the world. The Noble Lord's conduct b: 'ought to his recollecti nn the lines written upon a personal pi whom he would not then name, who— " ills ''sand, its skill to try, Amid the chord a bewilder'd laid, And back recoil l'd, he knew not why, Sc ►red at the sc and himself had made." —(Hear, and laughter.) What had scared the Noble Lord? His Noble Friend migh t depend upon it that his cele brated letter would not; have produced the effect it had produced, were it not that it had re-echoed opinions al ready entertained by the. great mass of the people of this cauntry.—( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend had, it seemed, been deterred by the opposition of his Irish suppOrters; but it was clear that he had not succeeded in conciliating their favour by the mutilation of his measure. A great statesman ought in such a case to have summoned his Cabinet together in the first instance, then to have ap pealed to the law advisers of the Crown, afterwards to have called Paliament together, and if Parliament had not re sponded to his demands, he might at once have appealed to the country.—(Hear.) He ( Sir R. H: Inglis) firmly be lieved that in that case the country would return such a Par liament as would enable hint to pass the most efficient mea sures he might think desirable upon , that subject. His Honourable and Learner t Friend the Member for Ply Mouth had said that no person would think at present of placing Roman Catholics in the position they had occupied thirty years ago. But be (Sit R. H. Inglis) recollected well that one of the great arguments advanced in favour of Roman Catholic Emancipation was, that it would completely satisfy and pacify the Roman Catholic body; and yet they had at that moment Roman Catholic Members of that House praying for a tramfer of the whole of the property of the Established Church in Ireland, although they had themselves sworn not to do anything to disturb that property. The conduct of her Majesty's Government upon that ques tion had been extremely vacillating and unsatisfactory. They had, three years sago, received ample intimation that some such step as the recent act of aggression was contem p'ated, and yet they had taken no precaution to prevent its occurrence- But they had been told by his lion. and Learned Friend the Member for Plymouth that in consider ing that question we were not to go to Roman Catholic countfires, but to take countries like our own. His Hon. and Learned Friend had refer red especially to Prussia, Belgium, and Russia, and he had said that they could not in any way take Russia as a standard of opinion or conduct. He apprehended that the illustration failei in each instance. There was a concordat between the Pontiff and the King of Prussia, which there was not in England, and he trusted in God there never would be.—(Hear, hear.) And then there was an agreement between the King of the Netherlands and the Pope. There then the Pope could create as many bishops as he pleased; buy, it must be with the con'ent of the Sovereign. In Russia no bull would be permitted to enter the country without the inspection and authority of a responsible Minister.—(Hear, hear.) He was. he must say, surprised at the course which his Hoe. and Learned Friend had had taken, even though he was one of the two leading members of the bar who did not give in their adhesion to the address on this subject agreed to by the great and learned body to which he belonged; yet his Hon. and Learned Friend had given such a vote on the first divi sion on this Bill which led him to hope he would be one of its supporters on the second reading.—(Hear, hear.) He had hoped to find his Hon. and Learned Friend his supporter on this occasion; for though the motion on which they had divided was that of the adjournment of the debate, still the real matter at issue was the first reading of the Bill, which that division decided.—(Hear, hear.) The people of Eng land had united on this subject in a stronger manner than he believed they had ever done on any former occasion. and their object in doing so was not merely to resist this attack on the dignity of the Crown and the independence of the eountry, but because they believed that the power of Rome had increased in this country, by having been fostered by many persons in high places; that her Majesty's Govern ment had, by their silence in some cases encouraged it, and by their overt acts they had more unmistakingly en couraged it.—( Hear, hear.) What had passed with respect to the Australian Colonies Bill, what had passed with re gard to the West India Colonies Bill, made them consider that her Majesty's Government were favourable to the ascen dancy of the Church of Rome in the distant parts of the em pire. —( Hear, hear.) He held in his hand three ppers re ferring to distant dependencies of the empi e ; and be told his Noble Fri , nd that he was not to be esteemed guiltless in these transactions as long as he took charge of the general administration of affairs, and when such results fol'owed tram the policy pursued by their COlOTiralliiiii;CeTend . the Lord. Lieutenant of Ireland. The original concession of territorial titles was made at the bidding of the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland. and it had been but too willingly acted upon by the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Colonies, and what had followed? He had moved for a return of the correspon dence that had taken place between her Majesty's Govern ment at home and the administration of their Church in the Australian colonies. He found that a very able address bad been forwarded by the Bishop of Sydney to the Governor of the Australian colonies, hnd when he asked for a return of the answer that had been sent to that address, lie was told it was " nil." He asked why was i not answered? They ought to remember that as a communicant of the Protest. , nt Epic copal Church of England the Sovereigns of the House f Brunswick had held, and did still hold, the Crown of these realms. - (Hear.) He asked them was it fitting that the Church of teat Queen should be placed in a subordinate posi tion and its prelates regarded as of inferior rank to the prelates that had been nominated by a foreign Sovereign, and that this, too, should be done without her Majesty's know ledge or consent?—(Hear.) According to Dr. Wisernan's doctrine, Roman Catholic prelates did not take their titles from districts, but from cities. Now let them look to New foundland, and they would find the system fostered by their Colonial Secretary ; they would there find " the Lord Bishop of Newfoundland" assuming a title conferred by her Majesty upon ecclesiastics of her own Church. This was done by a bishop nominated by the Church of Rome. In Trinidad the Pope had created an archdiocese—this was eone in another portion of her Majesty's dominions.—(" Hear, hear" from Mr. Moore.) Then that was not merely recognised as a fact, but it was cheered as a matter of congratulation.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Moore.) He asked the Hon. Member if when the colonies were attached to the Crown of Spain such an aggression would be submitted to, or the Spanish Sovereign would, under such circumstances, receive such ' an arc . bishop?—(Hear.) But this was not merely dene in the colonies, but titles were taken from portions of her Majesty's awn dominions. His Noble Frien'_ kn-w too much of history and antiquity not to f• el that there was an aggression when the Pope named a Bishop of Menevia, and thereby took ep scopal possessi' n of the ancient see of St. David's. Bu the Pope took two other sees—he took the sees of Shrewsbury and Nottingham, and it they looked to the Act of Henry VIII. they would find that these were suft.aganbishoprice,and might be called into existence at any time b, her Maje ty. This might be sad to have been accident or ignorance, but he believed it was done in ma lice prepense, and was a wilful violation of the existing law. Then in Ireland the Pope had created a bishop in Galway, and even since the Papal brief had arrived in E gland the P. pe had, by his own direct author ty, created a Bishop o Ross. (Hear, hear.) lie thanked the house for the patience v ith which it had listened to him ; but before he closed he wished to re nark that the ground of opposition to this aggression on the p , rt of the Pope was their strong at ta.:hment to the Reformation and their conviction of the blessing' they enjoyed through the Reformation.—(Hear. ) They looked to the state of England before the Reforma tion, and since; they contrasted the state of Protestant England with the state of any Roman Catholic country whatever. They felt that the contest at issue was one be tween light and darkness, between freedom and slavery, be tween the development of all the powers of the intellect are , the prostration of all those powers.—(Cheers.) He did net then say one word of the religion of Rome, but he referred to the interference of Rome with the growth of literature and the spread of science. —([fear.) The people of England knew well what were the blessings they had enjoyed person ally and socially since the Reformation, and they were of opinion that those blessings were endangered by every step taken by the Church of Rome in this country. Though he never had permitted himself, since the Roman Catholics were admitted to that House, to state his objection to their reli gion which the Scriptures afforded him, still he must say that the objections that might be made were felt deeply by the great body of the people of England.—(Hear.) In the success of the aggression now made they believed that there was great danger lest the blessings that had been so dearly purchased, and at such an expense, might be risked and pos sibly destroyed. The object of this Bill did not ace )ntplish all that he desired; but still, such as it was, he was pre pared to take it., and he hoped to find a majority of that House supporting the second reading.—(Hear, hear.) Several Members then rose to address the House, but they all gave way to Sir R. PEEL, who rose at the same moment. He said he was quite aware of the responsibility of the task he was now about to fulfil in attempting thus early at the commence ment of his Parliamentary career to trespass on the attention of that Hon. House; but the importance of the subject under discussion induced him to lay aside those scruples which, under ordinary circumstances, would unquestionably have silenced him into a mere formal expression of opinion, and gave him boldness to make the attempt at addressing them. —(Cheers.) Previous, however, to submitting the few ob servations which he should have occasion to offer, he was desirous of soliciting that courteous attention and forbear ance which he believed was invariably extended to all those who from inexperience in Parliamentary deliberations, or even of public speaking, and consequently from the novelty of their pnsition, required that seine allowance should justly be made.—( Hear, hear.) And would that on this, his first appearance ou the floor of that House, he might not be altogether unsuccessful in acquitting himself as became the cause he was about to advocate, as well as of the dignity and character of that assembly.—(Hear, hear.) Before en tering on the discussion before the House, he wished to make I a few preliminary observations with the view of estab l4hing the broad basis upon which he grounded his views of ' religious subjects, and more particularly with referenceoto religions toleration. It appeared to him natural to. conceive o neive that man was a being endowed with all the faculties neces sary for accomplishing what was reqnired of him, and, al though the pat's by which one a might apparently be in a totally different pursued direction, or be subject to totally diff eren t appreciationsall powers of reasoning from the course which another might pursue , y et to were given for discerning, consc ience for loving, and liberty for choosing that which was good; giftsand in the gradation in which they had received those of a divine economy he imagined they would all ha ve to render an account. Although he he was the uecompromising, advocate of the religion in which he was n ot only e d uc ated, but which reason and subsequent conclusions haii taught him to consider as the most likely to lead to an adequate interpretation of the Divine will as ex pres ed to us in the Bible, he was prepared unhesitatingly to MAR CR l5, ISSI. take his stand and resist ev ry attempt to interfere and tam per, vrith the doctrines and iseiriorl discipline of the Este blishod Church. But becnise . he held the Protestant Church to be the best, the silliest, and the most free from idolatry and superstitious mummeries, he did net on that account wish by any means to coetiol the consciences of others, or de priss them of the free enjoyment end cxorci e of that which they might consider as co istituting a more efficient rule of faith.—(Hear, hear.) He .coked upon religious toleration as a sacred prinsiple of portical economy, and which, acting in unison with the fretst exercise of eke' libsrty, so far as it could h rendered compatibk with the general interests of organised s ociety, hat secure I to them the completed sys tem of Gee ernment which the wisdom and observe ion man had vet devised. He held, Therefore, that toleration ought to toy extended to all sects and classes of religious thinkers, Without any distinction or limitation being drawn, so long as - pablie decency and public peace and tranquillity did not suffer from the exercise ef the doctrines or iieculiar views of any re'igion. ( Hear, hear.) When therefore the State was called upon to legislate upon matter., affecting ecclesiastical subjects, what delicacy, what for bearance, -what circumspection, was is not necessary to em ploy, so t eat, while wielding tie temperal sword to repress abes,s, net to shock the spiritual eusceetibilities or estrange tee loyal ;y eiethoee whose religious tenets might be, as in the United Kingdom, at variance with those of a majority of the people? It. should be remembered that religion was t e chief bond of human society; that history. as well as his person/.l experience in diplomatic red _tuns with a foreign power, had taught him that quarrels and disseusions on reli gious matters produced the greatest scandal, and unhinged the whole fabric of a State. Hear) While, therefo e, thee were animated in the discussion of the subject bef -re the House, they ought to have a •e y desire to soothe the excite meta which the recent attempt to complete the organisation of a Reman Catholic hierarchy in England had not unnatu rally stirred up; to be prepared to deal calmly with the evils which it had unhappily engendered, and to direct the atten lion, as it was their duty, to the consequences which he, for ne, had reason for apprehending unless corrected, would inevitably ensue. The Noble Lord at the head of the Govern- ' ment had been taunted with taking a step backward in bringing this motion before the House. He had been told that he had done that which his antecedents rendered unworthy of himself and of the great Liberal party over which he had hitherto with so much ability presided; but, from the opinion he had ventured to form of the oble Lord's character, he apprehended the', in the imperative discharge of a duty towards his country, be would not be deterred from the free exercise of his judgment even by considerations of his political antecedents, or at the risk of incurring :charges similar to those to which he had alluded.-- (Hear hear) To his mind the Noble Lord was no - . only best consulting the interests of the party which it was alleged he was deserting, but what was of infinitely greater importance, the interests f the country at large, by esting as he had done. (Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) And, as the enactments of this Bill—although he regretted that recea: Parliamentary dirUculties had induced the Noble Lor f to modify them, would in no way interfer with the legitimate exercise and enjoyment of religious liberty, but would merely tend to connrol abuse, he would give the Noble Lord— in the absence of a more stringent propos:tion—his humble bus very cordial suppi rt.— (Cheers.) Might he be permitted to add Clan although a humble Mem bar of the House, it was with deep feelings of regret that he found himself unable, atter mature cansideration, to arrive at conclusions in unison with the . pi n i ons w h ic h had been re cently expressed by one toward whom - for reasons which the House would readily understand - he bore considerable political a eachrne st, and to whom h looked up as called upon to occupy the place unhappily vacated in the ad vocacy of those measures with which the country was endowed ?- ( oud cries of " Hear, hear.") Oa the mo 'el of that Right Hon. Gentleman's political principles lie (Sir R. Peel) would readily fashion his own feelings; and happy has was to thick that upon most s dijects he could do so, thougei upon the present occasion, consiseently with the feelings he entertained, he was fie ced to differ from him. - (Hear, hear.) It was precisely because he (Sir R. Peel) was an relvocate of civil and religious liberty, which he held to be inseparably united together, so that yon could not de face the one without disfiguring the other, that he gave his adhesions to legislation upon the to-c .lied Papal aggression Divested of its Reified' influence, and apart, if possible, from the question of spiritual jurisdiction which Rome had as sumed by that act, there really appeared to him no very serious eseause of alarm. He saw no great cause of alarm in the simsile abstract circumstance that the tinily of an indi vidual priest had been satisfied—a priest, be it remembered, who ha , the meekness to promote his own elevation by the atsuremie that the political consequences resulting therefrom were smierficial and transitory in their nature.—( Hear, hear.) He held that there was no great reason for alarm in the simple circumstance that Dr. Wiseman had been permitted, as by the stroke of a harlequin's wand, to shuffle off the sombre vestments of a bishop in partilms, for the gaudy trappings of a spiritual prince, and the title of an imaginary see.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) After all, a cardinal's hat and hose had not always been reserved for even such impor tant functions, as from the present appointment one might be led to imagines A Medici wore a cardinal's hat in petti coats, and did not history point a finger of scorn at Julius 111., who : , with no great self-respect, it must be admitted, gave away the cardinal': hat which he had vacated on his own nomination to the Pontifical chair, to the keeper of a menagerie of monkeys which it was his Papal pleasure to maintain..—(Laughter.) Pio Nono, it really seemed to him, although but so recently and so forcibly reseated in the affectioen of his people by a sudden, and certainly very ex traordinary burst of religious zeal on the part of Republican France,--and, by the way, it really seemed as if the Citizen President of the Republic were desirous of making some amends for the Emperor's misconduct, as where the latter was instrumental in establishing republics, - as. for in stance, the Ligurian, the Cisalpine, and the Partheno prean,—the former had destroyed the only one be could lay his hands upon; end where the uncle, without much dis play, carried of from Rome a Pope beloved by his people, the nephew, with a very great display, and with consider able expense, it would appear, since it requited '3o,' 00 men, carried back to Rome a Pope whoa presence the Romans bad made arrangements to dispens wi-h.—( Laughter ant cheers.) He was about to say that P o Norio really seemed to him to espir• to the character in which Hildebran4 and I Gregory VII. were represented in an old picture which he re- membered seeing at Naples, with a croz er ih one hand and a whip in the other, trampling under food the crowns of so orereigns, and with the nets and fishes of St. Peter by hes side. This representation of the fiery monk of Cluny afforded no incorrecs Portraiture of the c' erecter which Pio Norio, with all Ws virtues and weaknesses seemed d sirous of enacting.—(hear, hear.) But Papal history teemed with vagaries of this nature Let the crimes, the bigotry, and he in - oleranee of the Papacy be for the more imme diate appreciation of those who, now that tt e day-spring of liberty had been eclipsed in the blood of that great man under whose auspices it was just begi• nag to dawn over Central Italy, were by an arbitrary tyranny endeavouring to counteract further development, forgetful that a day of reckoning might not be far distant, and that, unless they profited by the lessons afforded to them, the temporal power of the Pope, in the balancs of jus• ice, might be found want ing.— (Hear, hear.) But let us be careful, " Lest, from the bounded level of our mind, Short views we take, nor see the lengths behinds" but as to regulate our appreciation of the recent invasion of the prerogative of the Crown of England, as not to limit ourselves to the immediate effect's, bus to the 4o sequences likely to ensue. This was not the firs time at which this country, with reference to the usurpation of authority to appoint archbishops in this resins, had bad just cause to complain of Rome. So far back as the reign of King John he found Innocent 111. nominating an archbishop to the see of Cante 'leery, whose authority and jurisdiction John refused to recognise. The Pope consequently placed this country under an intereict and prohibited the King's subjects from rendering the homage which was justly due to their sovereign, and very generously gave this country to the King of France, whom, only a few years before, he had also excommunicated.—( Hear, hear.) id not eo X., in his infallibility, give to Henry VIII. the title of " Defender ef the Faith," in consequence of a work which he wrote on the Seven Sacraments against Luther; yet, in a very few years after this same title was abolished, the Fa-nese Pope (Paul ill.) promulgated the bull In Cana Domini, w.th a view of asserting the Pope's authority, and, at the same time, of excommuni cating Henry in England. These ecclesiastical thunder bolts, in the hands of the madmen who in the early and middle ages usurped to tin mselyes this authority, before the light of science and literature had disp ailed the dark clouds of supersti ion, had a very powerful influence over risen of ig orant minds. Then, again, in the recent case of Piedmont, in consequence of the Sicardi laws which had abolished certain ecclesiastical privileges, we had witnessed another display of the power of the Roman Ca tholic Church at the eath-bed of one who had been instru mental in their adoption, but which display had nearly Prove,' fatal to the bigotted prelate under whose auspices it had been planned.—(Hear, hear.) Thank God we had no serious ground for apprehension on this score in the present day. The people ef this country, happy in the enjoyment of civil and religious liberty —proud of the person of their beloved overeign, who had endeared herself to their affections by even firmer ties than those which might naturally have at tached her to them—would laugh to scorn the important attempt of that miserable political impostor to estrange them from their duty. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Se cretary of State for the Home Department, in the debate on the introduction of the Bill, said that if the mea sure were adopted he knew no reason for ente - taining any apprehension of the loyalty of her Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects; but he (Sir R. Peel) apprehended that there were many in that House who would be inclined to question, however painful it might be to do so, the accuracy of that statement, and he disposee to attribute it either to a too confiding spirit, which the loyalty of the Right Hon. Gentleman had given expression to, than to any substantive proofs he had adduced in support of it. He regretted, how ever, that the _Noble Lord, in attempting to legislate for Eng land, should have extended the enactments of the Bill to Ire land, the ecclesiastical condition of which, from the fact that three-fourths of the inhabitants were Roman Catholics, rendered it by no means synonymous with England. Indeed, he could have wished that while establishing even severer restrictions against Papal aggression in England they had left Ireland, at all events for the moment, altoge ther untouched.—(Loud cries of" Rear, hear.") He appre hended it to be quits possible to make a distinction ip legis lating upon these matters between England and Ireland. They could not conceal from themselves the fact that the Bill before the House, although shorn of i ts fair proper , lions, would produce, if it had not alreadye serious Majesty ':cited s dotni• hostility and opposition in that part o f her nions. Experience had taught them how io t n ena i c n io d us h t e he t l o r n s n sti d Roman Catholics were cf their re.rgand exp science had no fault with them on that scoret. a tt e mpts to interfere, also taught them how futile were even in an indirect manner, withss' a ha n t n t i h ta d d y acognrseiadtermeda majority o ri b ty e the free exercise of a religiononof which d profession id faith. Let the House then cease to of them in one common b direct t heir energies in this particular channel ; or, if they must legislate, let them not be guided by I I a pplicable to England, but e latch, as I what, PerhaP'' r egarded Ireland, I'tht b was altogether idle and unprofitable. 'she display of Protestant feeling recently exhibited in this country certainly afforded some security against successful aggression on the part of Rome ; and, although it had b ee n said that an att e mpt to get up an anti-Catholic demons t r ation in the north of England had failed, his belief was, that whatever artifice the Roman Ca tholicmight employ to excite a fictitious sympathy iu their behalf on the present occasion, the Protestant people of England did not need the exertions of any indivi dual to give vent to their unanimous disapproval of the conduct which Rome had recently adopted. 1n an ad dress, sigeed by 40,000 Roman Cath o li cs, recently presented to her Majesty by three Roman CatholiCPeers, he found the expression that they were ready "to give to Caesar the things that were Caesar's, and to God the things that were God's; but, remembering that this expression was susceptible of a Jesuitical interpretation, he did not consider it by any means satisfactory.— (Hear, h ear .) B ut what had experience taught him personally in dipl omat i c relations to fore i gn powers in a very crit eel juncture of affairs with respect to ecclesiastical differences? A Passive observer under the instructions of the Noble Lord at the head of foreign affaiis, s hatever others might suppose to the contrary, and directed not to interfere, he had witnessed inactively, but not without emotion, the mighty 6truggle of liberty ag dust despot am andintolerance i ~. ud cheers)--a draggle which, in a country containing ie over e..000,e00 of nth bitints, hat called forth the test efforts of an army o 90,000 men.- (Cheers.) That nation had been roused, not to unfold once aeai k on the b inner of Victory the federal cross against forrign fosse, not in another battle of Mogarten to crush the prid of Austria, or as against a Maximilian with a view of en forcing the ratification of Swiss independence, not as against France in the 16th century to win a Novara, or to piunuder End lay was'e the fertile plains of Burg• rely and besiege Dijon, but, under the influence of religious excitement and animosities, stirred up by artful Jesuits and Papal political emia-aries,to wage a religious e ar against one another, and. in a fratricidal contest, to pour out the most gallant bli fed that ever warmed a pat.iot's heart on that soil, which. like an oasis in the desert, still afforded a last retreat against the despotism of Europe,-still preserves intact the hoepitable abate of liberty.-(Loud cheers.) He admitted, indeed, it was with difficulty be could control his feelings and main tain that rigid and impartial observance which the Noble Lord had absolutely imposed on him, when he w itnessed e iniquity and intolerance with which Rome had tee tered these dissensions, an t that after the capitulation of Freibourg she had been instrumental in inducing Lucerne to prolong a hopeless contest.-(Cheers.) The country had hardly yet recovered the consequences of that struggle and the shock of contending parties. The horrors of war, the losses, misery, the ruinous expense it entailed were only relieved by the greatest forbearance and met by the greatest sacrifices coupled with the entire orgetfulnese of the past. And yes, f the Confederacy had not shown energy iu stem ming that outbreak at once, he shoe d like t know where would have now been the liberty-where the tel gloss tole eaten that at present that c ountry enjoyed? (' beers.) And had '2ot the consequences of that wa proved what dan gers were to be apprehended from apparently insignificant causes— for they all knew the origin of the struggle id Switzerland-how step by step, if unchecked, they gradually attained a magnitude capab a ultimately of convulsing an entire nation Luther said that Rome was the seat of hypocrisy and Hot ranee. And certainly the at teced nts of Papal history confirmed that op nion, and proved that there was in her pelicy a tendeocy the most dangerous to, and moss, subversive of, civil and religious liberty.- (Cheers.) rest your eye (said the Hon. Baronet) over the page of history. See what - pain once was •nd what she now. See what is Rme -what is Yaples-what is Florence at the present day ! Where with Roman Catholic intolerance is civil liberty ?-(Loud cheers.) Recollect what Hildebrand, Gregory I'll , said of Spain -" It were better she should belong to the Seracen than not tender homage to the Sovereign Pontiff." Recollect that another Pope-boon compagno-Gregory XIII., re velling in his unholy orgies, celebrated to Almighty God public thanksgiving for the massacre of St. Bar tholomew, and recollect that her policy still continues in the same spirit.-(Great cheering.) Its course unchanged still flows through the same channels of intolerance. Recol lect, above all, that this is the enemy we have to ward off, and whose arrogance and hypocrisy, whope indifference to the consequences likely to ensue, provided her own selfish ends are attained, or, failing that, succeeds in throwing the firebrand of religious discord amidst this happy, this contended people, with the hope of deriving some ultimate advantage in the conflict of party now urge e her on. she is an enemy whom it requires all our zeal and attentiole to counteract, and, as I believe from my heart this recent aggression was but the first step of a premeditated and or ganized system of attack - (Tremendous cheering)-under taken with a view of enslaving the conscience, shackling the liberties, and shaking the allegiance of the people, I would entreat the Nehe Lord, as be respects and values that course which he has so long and advantageously to the country advocated, to keep a watchful and a vigilant eye over the interests commit. ed to his keeping as head of the Govern ment of this great empire, and I entreat the Housef by timely legislation, to prevent an abuse from taking root unheeded, the frui's of which will inevitably endanger the safety of the State.-(The Hon. Baronet resumed his seat amid great cheering, and was immediately surrounded by numbers of Hon. Members to offer him their congratulations.) Mr. M'CULLAGII said he had listened to the speech which the Hon. Baronet had just delivered, with fee logs which he would tether not express. Bisto if he (Mr. MeCullagh) could imagine the feelings witle eivitioli the Ito man Catholic Members of that House hadlAsteped to thilit s ngular address, he would, as a Protestant, its sire to say, let not the first step in legislation of one whoiriel lisheade•l for nig own inexperience be conclusive in the fin - mad= of the judgments of Hon. Members. Let the House remember there was a debt of gratitude still due to one whoie name that H. n. Baronet bore ( Hear, hear)-and for the sake*of the great deeds of the father, he would ask the House to forget for a moment what he (Mr. M'Cullagh) hoped he might characterise with justice as the inconsiderate expressions of the son.-(Oh, oh, and laughter.) For his (Mr. M'Cul lagh's) part he had but one duty to discharge, and that was to speak as a Protestant Member of that House on this ques tion. He, as a Protestant, protested against this Bill, be cause he was a sincere believer in the truth of the principle of Protestantism, and because he believed the principle of the • Reformation to be nothing less than the perfect and unabridged right of of private judgment, and because he believed this Bill was an indirect attempt to oppress those who con scientiously differed from him on the great matter of eternal salvation. For these reasons, and because he re garded the Bill as a departure from the proper province of legislation, he would give it his perfect and unqualified oppo tog ir e It seemed to be taken for granted that the bishops of Ireland, in assuming the titles of sees, were offenders against an acknowledged law; and the Right Hon. Gentle man (Sir George Grey) in the course of his speech on this question commented on the faot, that in a recent address to the Throne they had signed their names simply without ap pending the names of their sees. The probable explanation of that war, that those prelates only signed by the names of their sees wuen the documents they so subscribed had re ference to diocesan acts. It was a tact within his own know ledge that the Most Rev. John Roman Catholic Archbishop t f Tuam, had had letters of administration granted to him from the Prerogative Court of Ireland, by the Most Reverend John George, Archbishop of Armagh, who in those letters of administration addieesed him as " the Most Reverend John M'Hale. Roman Catholio Archbishop of Tuam."-(Hear, hear.) So that they had the first Pro testant prelate in Ireland recognising the titles, the eseump tion of which was now called an offence. One of the first acts which the Archbishop of Tuam did under those letters of administration was to make an affidavit before Master Litton, one of the Masters in Chancery in Ireland, and who was strongly attached to Protestant principles, but who nevertheless permitted that prelate to sign such affidavit as John, Archbishop of Tuam. The Master of the Rolls is Ireland. the Hon. I'. B. Smith, who made an order ou that very affidavit, not only granted the application in favour of the Archbishop of Tuam, sad against the persons with whom he contended, but also awarded costs to him.-( Hear, hear.) Again, in the course of a sharply contested suit between the late Protestant corporation of Drogheda and their successors, which was referred by the Lord Chancellor to Master Henn, a Protestant official of the Court of Chancery in Ireland, and a man distinguished by experience, worth, and learning, that gentleman, in refuting the mode in which the trust in ques tion in the suit was constituted, wrote at the head of the list of trustees, "the Most Rev. Dr. Crolly, (the then) Primate of all Ireland ;" and after the death of Dr. Crolly, Sir R. Sugden nominated the Rev. Paul Cullen, D.D., Roman Catholic Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of all Ire land," to act in his stead in the trust.-(Hear, hear.) And was he to be told that these men were now to be punished for assuming titles which the most eminent men had conferred upon them ?-(Hear, hear.) Although it might be contended that they could not make void by statute the spi-itual acts of the Roman Catholic bishops, still they 'had attempted by this statute, as originally frame , to make a criminal offence a signature to any deed or writing, or an, other act of a Catholic bishop signed in his capacity of a di cesan bishop. But what was the fact ? The omission of the 3d and 4th clauses left the Bill as obnoxiout as it was before. - (Cries of "Oh !") He held iu his hand an op nion given to him within the last three hours, the opinien of three eminent lawyers, which left no doubt upon that point. It struck him, looking at the preamble of the Bill, whether the three omitted clauses were not contained in the fiat proposi tion. It was a very serious matter, which the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secre ary of State .hould.look to, whether her Majesty's subjects should be set in a net or doubtful int• ler pretation, where crimes were charged, and the chief pastors of their faith were to be made amenable. If they were to legis late, they ought to do so openly. In a case se banned to Mr. Bethell, of the Chancery bar, Mr. Bramwell, and Mr. Saville, of the common, those gentlemen bad given the following opini ne upon these three questions-1, If any name. or style, or title, designated under the second clause of the Bill, were attached to any deed or writing, whether that deed or writing would not be void, notwithstanding its omission? The answer was in these remarkable words:-" We are of opinion that any deed or writing such as is there designated would be void in law.-(Hear, hear.) The second question fee put was this- Whether, if the third clause be omitted, any endowment or gift toanyßomanCatholie bishop ar archbishop , in the manner designated in the clause, would be void? The answer be received was this:-" By the first claueee any gift or endowment for the benefit or support of a Roman Catholic bishop would be void ;" and they went on to state the rea sons tor, that opinion at length, but he would not trouble - the House at that late hour of the night by going into them in detail. Auy gentleman who felt curious to see them 'might . have a copy. The gist of the matter was this-that 1 " second and third clauses were conclusions, and,legarily speak ing, consequences, derived from the first. So, although the second and third clauses were left out of the Bill, they were as completely dealing with the question of what the en dowments, and were going as much bey ond w of the Govern- Hon. Gentleman stated it was. in n the Bill. No ment to do, as if the clauses remained arß Baronet the Member for wonder, then, that the Honourable conciliated opposition Oxford found that concession bad not that the Bill daily looked upon in Ireland. No wonder theinbteenY with increasing aversion and opposition, and he trusted that. the the aneonu.rhinmemenbero fort th e Rouse. 1 . 2 ear:). opposition fe a e n t d ef a vs such r e s h i o a n e would until massive. - t h h ( ee t i t e r a i r um h p h ea, s'len into severa l fallacies. one of will h re moved, all thi air.M W O O O O ß D E sa m id o t v h e a d t f rest fell to the ground. The Hots. Member had begun with' giving ha definition t f civil and religious liberty. be (Mr. W oo d) would yield to no gentleman on e i t h er side of the House in zeal to defend the principles of civil and religious. liberty to the utmost verge consistent with the safety of the state; but, once permit the Pepe to take the poeition he had a ttempted to assume in Engl an d , let it be permitte t that subjects of the Crown of England might refer to the Pope the resolution of questions of j ur i sdiction, and we shou ld a t oece be, thrown back to th a t period of darkness and iutoler ance when civil and religious liberty had not even been heard of. (Hear, hear.) He considered that the few words which had been uttered on a former occasion by a Right Honourable Baronet opposite had a tendency to throw back the cause of civil and religious liberty in Europe, more hen anything which had taken place in the last 300 years.-(" No, no," and loud cheers.) What effect, for example, would those words, if adopted b y the Legi s latu re of England, have upon the people of Sardinia, now engaged in a desperate struggle f r religious liberty, such as th a t w hi c h E ng l an d herself had gone through ? Let it not be forgotten that one of the Ministers of Sardinia had h t e h a e cis march of f that of been allowed to expire without the con s ol ations of his relie gion, solely on the ground that he had been the author of three measures which were dist a st e ful ate to Church, because they were so ysteosthien civil freedom. Let the avumptiens o f Sardinians be sancti one d by the English Parliamdt, and t he would t hi n k their cause desperate indeed.-(Hean) His (Mr. Wood's) definition of religious liberty was the right which every man had to worship his Creator is the mode which he deemed best ; to select for his religious instructors those whom he wished to select, and to exercise his religion freely, with this safeguard-Sic utere teo ut non alien lcedas-(Hear, hear;) -while civil liberty as compared with religious liberty was this. that no man should be deprived of any civil privilege whatever on account of any religious opinions whatever. But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had kept back the rea l difficulty, which. indeed, solely influenced his (Mr. P. Wood's) vote. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman admitted that the' Roman Catholic acknowledged a foreign : ' superior,. but he said, "if that is you r o bj ect ion you should have. thought of it when yon admitted the Roman Catholics to to seat in Parliament." But he did not meution.oueTeeutiaritrt of the Church of Rome that it mixed up temperal and spiri tual matters. so th at you could scarce ly sever one from the other. -(llear, heir.) And if that Church were allowed to introduce the canon law into this country, as Cardinal Wise-