The Sun. — London, England, 1850-04-24 00:00:00

were entered at the t Universities were inve ited with learning orders. The Universities ought to be the seats of 0 4, n ,. t e,g generally, not confieed to earticuler branchee „ In c:t a ut', and he hoped to see the day when the improve d " he had suggested would be fully carried out. isiiiiegrsgiewmagot into debt very frequently at the Univer weigned them down during all their future b e n,' and he knew instances of clergymen not ver P able t) pay t h e i r d e b ts i ncurre d at the . Uni ite:a until an advanced psriod of life. lie &te nni a Young man who had spent 2,000/. during his ss eerui nee n , al; an university; and he dared say th e i r s nteinhers in that llouie had covered bu,. father's tablet with bills incurred by them at the t ni di illth..vlyorsity dresses neelayrsities. Ile 31)jected, ton, to the distinctive acade hwahieh the different students wore at the thought there should be no dui- I t e r j, l n in this respect among the students. r a r t these circumstances he hoped the neisruhiloicestelatil jel t v do o b u py l r d op c a o a n e s d e . nt to the Commission of Inquiry The Honourable Member then reading his motion, given above, amidst Hear hear." h •R. INGLIS complained of the course taken s f e n t e o Ei . on. Member for North Lancashire in . . drag rn ard the corporations in the U niversines zata.ner which he had done, without any grounds d s * e ` n t e un given for having done so. Ina pamphlet ad ult) t bill of indictment which the Hon. Member wished 0 bri e . - tithtaaVtil g against the Universities was pretty generally The first proposition of the Hon. Member was, e ahs ,e interests of religion and education had not ad benne' in the ancient Universities to an extent commen- Drei`etef had their great resource; ; but not one word of this t ea the Hon. Member brought forward to support tthektAtument. lie did not mean to deny the right of n visitatione bat he did not allow the uncon ertn`"al right that the Noble Lord at the head nte e, Government should choose a Member here, aed a W ithout there, as it suited him, to form a Commission, an •at the supervision of the Lord Chancellor; that mac semi, right of visitation which he could not e een t S The Universities had, from the earliest ages, been In s t ?errd the nurseries of the Church of Englaed, „ e c e i n Ut that respect, therefore, he differed from the pro tini,tton laid down by the Hon. Member. He considerel na g t %Parliareent had no power to interfere in spritual to ts ra connected with - the Universities. That ten i , Pule ,t cnit tined what he would not other ever-, designate _thin mistakes. No oath was 1837 . ta kt , a by the students; it was aboliehed in e ln lieu of the oath, they were admonished by Vice-Ch a ncellortl h i to obey the statutee. He warned c i ty ' e hie Lord (Lord J. Russell), and indeed his saga had already discovered it, that the real obj.ct of the 80 ° 4 !I t • pr l a z . niber s;•as to facilitate the admission of Dis te Into the Universities. It was really a question 1 “3 admission ( f Dissenters into those seminaries Year '•n a i rn e ,!itg• This was not a new question. In th e e nr 'le upon the presentadon of a petition, it had p eti ii j t'd three days of discussion in that House. The feenlP Yorks thoueht, from the Dissenters of t( ail l ti ire. They claimed a right cf admission the collages except one. He denied that right. ste r - "„ r g l majority of the colleges had the greatest nn e " T " of their property reseeatively from Protestants. and p , r,operty was to the Ives of the Protestant Church, tt ua ,_ members of the Church of Rome could not "Fled claim admission. So property con n to the uses of the established Episcopal as; reh could not he reasonably . enjoycd by it es ni l members of that communion. Again, se e n" 3 , 'a'd that colleges were necessarily confined to tasir tutors from amongst their own fellows, and ;in that system was feed to the production of eminence `lugd')ngst them. But neither the fact as stated, nor the ion taken from it, was true. The system worked Int er a s an enumeration of the acquirements of the would show. It was described us a hardship that teoluters were compelle 1 to remain unmarried; but the ee s s, although chosen from the fellows, were not ne ; I 'rtlY to remain unmarried; for, although a tutor • gl it give tip his fellowship,he was not required to re bad " s tutorship. Many in teem were married. Ho un o had that morning received a letter from one of them, Ide ° "" a wife and three charming children.—(A laugh.) fir ~3 now surrounded by his colleagues the members th e i unieereities, and they would be able to give all er ir ermation that was required, without any special etxtraotdinary commission of inquiry. Another charge lb ' Gentleman that the university career tin n ., • woe, d e n be summed up in few words, as it consisted in doing nothing but eating dinners, going to church, and ure e m g books. Now, what did young men go to a p s ,,;' ts itY for* but to read books? Was it not a 01. their d u ty? Was it not equally a part of e s •a n r d uty to go to charCh ?—(Hear, hear.) And as for i n "g dinners. that was an inevitable necessity.—(A ns j Ps'h ) The Professional system of education was more 14 3 f P te d to the infancy than the maturity of learning. °re the invention of printing it was almost the only m a =nsn of diffusing the knowledge of various branches of -ea tieri, and courses which required the illustration of practical experiments could new only be properly fol liZed up by that system. The University of Oxford L° l ' }ears almost abolished the professional system fa vour of th e tutorial s y s t e m. That University con sisted of four- an d-t we rny colleges, and each college was e, ae iversity within itself; and professed to give a'com plete course ef education. He felt totally at a loss to n leuet for the apathy evinced by many of the old e f u t Tti s of Oxford University, who wire now Meraters t o House, turd in this case he alluded particularly t e th e Noble Lord . , (Lord John Russell), who should n i i ee L e of th e fi rst su pporters of such institutions, in th e e n he regretted to say that the Noble Lord was on occasion too quiescent. He should, condu t - ,'Yt say that from his knowledge of these Universities e . elt it his duty to opens° the motion. He then al th"oesd ... to the suerior ualifications of the professors in th different colleges, ar,d expressel his astonishment darn ed any charge should be brought either ag ainst those en n ed gentl emen , o r against himself. sb: i rs FORTESCUE felt it to be his duty to s u pp ort fe rn "tion of the Hon. Member, although he did not the n hiniself called upon to agree in all the opinions of Rev in Member on the subject. The first changes n n e r in those institutions took place in the days of the eh ee nrm ation and they hal since undergone many h n - n lges- de admitted that since 1800 the Univerities the ma de many advances in the direction of r eform ; but roost cursory glance showed that there were many thin gs eonneeted with them, and with the interests, as te n neeted with th em , of tho students, which celled for ibrr es Without the aid of public opinion, however, it be u seless in theseles w sto hope ay change for any great chae in those 11".1°3114 b tiltutiof general improvement. It could ill become him to say anything that could reflect a tit the cha racter o f t h e i r Universities, and he should be Nay to see anyunfriendly course adopted in relation to th `rm The Hen. Member then took a review of the lu t e ; urs e eee of studies marked out for pursuit at our Universi teed and commented upon them in relation to their in e purp S oses. With respect to Latin, it was the °PM t e on of doe Smith that there was a great deal , i , Much study y bestowed on it in the Universities. could not but regret the different changes Which had been made in their Universities, di lie them from their original foundation. e rejoiced to see that there was, notwithstanding, a f„',n,wing spirit of reform. in their Universities, particu- CY in the University of Oxford; and if the State, in a; v " is d°m• would so direct its attention to the subject sad enlarge the basis of education in their Universiies, D ," admit the different classes of the community to a D „' r k t,icipaiion in its benefits, it would be effecting a great good,—(Heat.) And this the State might do t i t t n h the aid of the immense fun . ds of the Universities Is , out div ert i ng one s hilling of those fends from tee et far which they were originally intended. Of te ly E cclesiastical Commission he could not but speak in anima of respect and commendation, as having directed 11 attention in the forest and most unbiassed manner to the y st a l e of their Universities, and the objects for which snit ! were originally instituted. The Hoe. Membn• t'n to d the work of a German philosopher on the subject aB ine English Universities, and cited a passage from it e l the certainty of a reform taking place in them when er4 xtecessity may demand it, although he (the writer) th at prejudiced against any interference with them in th en w aYs being attached to their operation as he found li t a at tcl concluded by repeating that he felt great sa tlete-t;" e n er • giving his support to the motion of the Hon. Mr nt e • IAGAN did not think it necessary to follo w the es n; ) en Baronet (Si r R. Inglis) in all the observations Se e l ; I he had mad e ou this momentous subject; but he " not but comment on the alsertion of the lion. rl et, that Raman Catholics ought not to be educated, Without restraint, in the Universities of this country. th 9 m utt tell the Hon. Baronet that the University in tio s f eee nntry were originally Roman Catholic fount:4l - founded by Roman Catholics, and for the educe- In; of Rom an C at h o li cie Si n ce 1793.4, Roman Cathc ' th e , w ere admitted into the Dublin University , and th e ( were still annually permitted to enter for education n t but subj ect to great restrictions. It was calcu lated nz tt that m ore t h an 1 -7 5t h p ar t o f the "honours" and ethluments of the University, to that of the whole, was s time, fell to their lot ; and since 1794, up to the pre deit ales the average number of Roman Catholic ate atee Who received education in the University did not 411 0 : nt to more hefthan 30 in each year. He could make Pres.4nee, in t ase of the fellowships for a desire to Conn an exclusiveness in favour Of a particular el t r e nl but why should Roman Catholics be pre et from the emoluments of the scholarships for thne University ? Scholarships were given t e benefit of all the students, and they surely ouln be the Open tO Oh—(lm, hear.) He knew that e e ; ? ' tet uaieeness was kept up for the purpose of in -Ite an' Catholics to conform to the Protestant religion. b e n w e e illei refer to the charter of the University of 11 n t ". and ther e was no thi ng in that charter to prevent th ° e - lan Catholics from being ichnittad to the benefits of has nstituti on. But the system of which he complained which which was enco uraged and acted on in a country and there were, or had been until the famine swept o etn n toned their ranks, upwards of 7 000 000 of Roman °ilea * T in " of his oh sereatio_ he Hon. Baronet, the course enti re 2 3 5 stated that a single college in Oxford was an a nt e niversity; but he (Mr. Fagan) knew, however orinie might be, that the colleees of the Universities were th en julY Catholic foundations, and he must say that gr es ' n Ought to be now, as originally, open for the public aita ( H ear, hear ) It was said that the Univer ds • "ere intended for the education of young men who , Slred ay, let to enter into holy orders; but to that he would Part o p there be o th er co ll eges i ns titut e d, and forming ie n to ' t he University, in which young men not intend er ttme e nt . er into holy orders might receive the benefits that i n t " :Or education. He wished particularly to tee *telt e case of Trinity College, Dublin, and he T s t en ' e u have no objection to its retaining the name of eststni ni 3 " He was one of those who advocated the *hen t b mtit t of the provincial colleges in Ireland, now, k e Y Were first ietroduced into Ireland, and he gl a d cL . "la Place in Parliament, repeated that he was that 4 , , e their int:oduction into that country, believing tne'Yen, were g reat l y Ij auitile cl ine .n calculated to confer benefit on classes, &rOteattuit, CAtholio, sad Dissenter, T II E all of whom hr hoped would avail themselves of their ad vent eses. While there were prosincial colleges in Ulster, Munster, and Connaught ,eihy should Roman Catholics be excluded from the colle :e in the province cf Leinster and the city of Dublin? He could only hope that the House would carry out to its full extent the reform r f this great University, and that under the sanc tion of Vietoria, the intention e.f Elizabeth, the founder, would be adopted. Mr. NAPIER characterised the statements which had been made reseeding Trinity College as totally un f )undel. In the first place; the land revenuee of Trinity College were less than the sum annually voted by the House for 711eynooth College. He denied that Dissen ters. and Cetholies were excluded from the honours and emoluments of Trinity College. They participated in all except the fellowships and scholarships, which were connected with the foundation of the University, and in Erasmus Smith's professorship. The object in founding Trinity College was for the purpose of main taining the Protestant religion. Up to 1793 Catholics wore excluded alt rgether, but in that year they were admitted to take degrees, while they were carefully pre vented from becoming lay members of the corporation. Oat of the land revenues of 30,0001. a year, nearly 4,0001. were open to Catholics. The scholarships to which it was nwv sought to admit Catholics were not found• dby Elizabeth, but by Charles the Second. Mr. O'Connell had given evidence before a Committee of the House of Commons, that it would not be wise to admit Catholics to scholarships, 'inasmuch as he considered they were intended solely for the benefit of Protestants. The proportion of Catholic to Protestaeit students was about one-tenth, or the same proportion as the Catholic weal h arid influence of the country bore to the Protes tant. The organ cf the Catholics in this country ad mitted that even if the scholarships were thrown open to the Catholics it would not satisfy the Catholic popula tion. They should have Catholic service and Catholic supervision, and a purely Catholic system of education. The present system had worked well and harmonizing, and if it were disturbed by forcing Catholics in on the foundation of the University, they would be looke 1 upon as an eggrersive body, and for his part, if this extreme step were persisted in, he, for one, should much rather see them entirely excluded. The lion. and Learned Gentleman then applied himself to the portion of the motion which advocated an extension of the interests of religious and useful learning, com mensurate with the great resources and high position of the Universit e-. Ile contended that sufficient progress had been made and that everything was done which the requirrments f the age demanded. Every branch of sound knowledge and useful science was carried out in Trinity College, and the system of university education there udopted was without a single blot. The salaries of the senior fellows did not exceed 1,5001. per annum, and those bard-worked and indaittions men, the junior id iom, who direc'ed their mental energies and physical la bours to the cause of education, did not realise more than 6001. or 7001. per annum. No commission was neces sary to enable the fellows to marry—for, by an old statute of St. Patrick, it was provided that priests should have wive-.—(bear, hear.) The consequence of the system of tenure of the college lands led to the great sub-letting and sub-division of lenO, which was one of the great evils under which the country lay. The very worst college lands were held urn a lease of fleas renewable for ever. He could not see, under these cir cumetar!ces, of what use a Royal Commission could be in altering this state cf things. The proper question was, whether the property held by the University of Dublin had been properly steadied to the objects of the founder, and to a useful dissemination of knowledge throughout Ireland. If it had, then he contended that not a shadow of a case had heen made out for interfer ing with this celebrated institution, and least of all by means of a Royal Commission. Mr. SADLEIR. said he thought the Learned Gentle man who had just spoken had properly confined his ob• servatioas to the state of Trinity College, Dublin. He boefesaed, however, that he was disappointed with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's speech, for he had ex pocted, from the declaration which he once made, that Christie:rite was his creed, and his country his politics, that he was about to speak in u liberal strain of the ad vautages which would be afferied by that institution, or that he would have approved, in f let, of the proposition once made in the Irish House of Commons, by the cele brated Claudius Beresford, the kinsman of the Honour able Member for Essex, that Trinity College should be thrown open to the Roman Catholics of Ireland. As to the relative number of Catholics and Pro. testants that enter that college, it is right that the House should remember that whilst there were only thirty-two Catholics that entered it there were 350 Protestants. The Hen. end Learned Me niter had repeated to the Rouse that it was thrown open to all classes of society in Ireland without distinction of creed, though it was established fur the benefit of Protestants only. Now in the eh bate which occurred on this subject in the session cf 1845, when it was brought forward by the Hoe. and Gallant Member f Middlesex, it was stated that according to the terms of the charter granted to the college, after it had been endowed out of the con fiscated eat ate of the' Earl of Desmond, the object of the institution was to disseininete knowledge end civility throughout the Irish poor. In those words there was not the slightest alhision to creed of any kind. He (Mr. Sadleir) was quite sure in this respect, and with refer ence to the principle and policy by which the University managed its lands, there were strong and cogent reasons for acceding to that portion of the motion of the Honourable Member for North Lancashire which re lated to Trinity College, Dublin. The subject of the cultivation of the vast territories owned and culti vated by Trinity College had been investigated in a Committee of the House of Commons, and the evi dence there given was strongly condemnatory of the system cf cultivation pursued by the provost and fellows. Under the present system, there was not nearly the amount of nroduca derived from the la Id which it was capable r f yielding. At this day, when ever a piece r f land belonging to the college became va cant, instead of listening t the proposal of an intelli gent or practically egricultural occupying tenant, the college would bestow the land on any sir or squire who was willing to put himself in the false position of being a middleman, by which he transmitted to the college about 75 per cent. cf the rent only which he received from his sub-tenants. MI who were acquainted with the relations between landlord and tenant in Ireland knew that the middleman system was ono of the greatest curses which the country latoured under, andyet here it was practised by the very heads of the Metropolitan University. The operation of this system, and the great disadvantages which resulted from b it, were put under a strong point r f view, by the report on the subject made by the board of guardians of a union in the county of Kerry, where the eel:ego had extensive possessions. He hoped that that system would be put an end to, and that some method would be ultimately adopted by which the many evils he bad adverted to might be obviated, and the means of the college better enabled to effect the great objects which it had in view. Mr. HAMILTON said he was unwilling to render this debate an exclusively Irish one, and he should, therefore, content himself by expressing an earnest wish that these serious evils might be considered and remedied. Colonel THOMPSON was bound to thank the Hon. Member for the Univ. reify of Oxf ntd for bringing up be fore his eyes those Dissenters of Yorkshire whose case he had introduced into this debate, because it removed some considerable difficulty which he should have other wise experiente I in determining what vote to Klee on this occasion. He should have felt a difficulty in sup porting the in. Von if he thought he should have been judged as giving a harsh decision against the University with ehich it was his boast and his happiness to be con nected, and of which he could never speak without the most friendly sentiments. But there were fl aws even in that University, and cue was the exclusioa of Dissenters from all Farticipation in the advantages it gave to the public. He did believe that that was a point on which, without the smallest unfriendliness, he was authorised to say they . must in the end give way, simply because it was not just, and not in accordance with the events that were daily taking place in the world. To the Dissenters, however, he would say, that if they were desirous of ob taining the advantages of a collegiate education, the most likely way to advance their objeet would be to establish a college of their own. He could not allow one dictum of the lion. Member for the University of Oxford to pass without, at all events, expressing his disagreement with it. The Hon. Gentleman had said that no right existed on the part of that House of Parliament —meaning thereby the whole Government of the country, of which that House was a component part—to interfere with the de cisions or doctrines of the church named of England. That dictum could not be pasted over, because he (Col. Thompson) knew that it was coet7ary to the opinion of a large portion at least of the Members on his (the Minis terial) side of the House. There were many who be lieved that a compact existed between the Church of England and the State. If the Wesleyans or the Society of Friends chose to establish an exclusive system of education, they were at perfect liberty to do so, because they held no revenues from the State. But he and his friends maintained that there wee a compact wish the Church of England; and that it was not from any ab stract merit or desert that its revenues were given to it, but because its doctrines coincided with the opinions of the great mass of the inhabitants of this country; and if ever, unhappily, it should coma to pass that the doc trines of the Church of England should cease to coin chic with the opinions of tho majority of the people, then he and his friends maintained that there would exist a right on the part of Parliament to enter into the question as to the future application of its revenues. Lord J. RUSSELL said, that in addressing the House on the important subject then under discussion, he felt very sensibly the great disadvantage of having no per sonal experience in respect to those two great Universi ties which were mainly the subject of the present mo tion. It was, however, a subject upon which he thought it was necessary (brought before the House es it had been), that some member of the Government should state the views which the Government were disposed to take of it. It was for that purpose that ho had risen to ad dress the House. In the first place ho would observe that he did not think it would be possible for him to agree to the motion as it was now placed before the House, combining as it did a great number of questions, and placing them in a form which had induced his Hon. Friend the Member for the University of Oxford to say that the motion constituted a bill of indictment against the Universities. Now, in whatever way he might view this subject, be must in the outset declare proceeding which the term " indictment" could be applied; nor could he see any cause for considering that these Universi ties were objects of accusation by the majority of that House. There was another-part of the subjdct likewise which, in his opinion, ought to be kept totally apart from the main object and purport of that motion. The qug:f.n of the admission of Dissenters to the Universi ties, important as it was, should not, in his judgment, be considered together with a question that related to any improvements in the plan of education that might be pursued in those Universities. Whether Dissenters should be admitted to study in the Universities—whe- S IT N, ther they shculil be admitted to the honours conferred by the Universities—and how far these or any other admissions should extend—these were questions of prin ciple which, as the Hon. Member had c srrectly said, were debated several years ago et great leagth in that House, on the occasion when his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley) made an able speech in favour of the admis sion of Dissenters t the Universities, supported by rea sons which, in his (Lord J. Russell's) opinion, had never been auswered. It was quite unnecessary t t a,k gentle men to sit in commission on a question which was really one to be settled by Parliament, and on which the Irish Parliament did clecide, when they allowed that Roman Cathol:cs should be admitted to degrees in the University of Dublin. He did not think, therefore, they should take into consideration the question of the admis sion of Dissenters. But when be proceeded to the other and more important questions, with respect to the edu cation which was given in our English Universities— ' approaching that subject with all that care and with all that respect which ho felt for those Universities, he mten in the first place say that he did not think there could be any objection in principle—he did not conceive that even his Hon. Friend the Member f the University of Oxford could make any objection in principle—to the appointment of a Commission to consider the state of tho.e Universities with regard to the nature of the educa tion they imparted. On the subject of precedents for issuing such a Commission, allusion had already tc el made to some that were most apposite. A Commission of Inquiry into the state of the Church of England had, with all due respect to the Church of England, been made with the consent of the Archbishops of that Church. A Commission cf loqairy into the Scotch Universities had been issued, on which Commission the principals of same of the colleges of those Universities were planed. So also a Commission of Inuiry, generally, into en dowed schools for the education of the poorer clas , es, Ras issued under Lord Brcugbam's Act. All these were precedents which showed that there was no objec tion in principle to the appointment of a Commission on this subject. Nay, they showed still farther that ihme who were the leading persons in authority in these Uni versities ought not to consider that it was any disparage ment to them if a Commission were appointed upon a subject so important to the people of Great Britain. — (Hear, hear.) Having thus stated what he thought was the material principle involved in this question, he would proceed to consider whether there was any case —whether there was any ground of reason or of expe diency why such a Commission should be appointed now.—(" Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp, which ex cited much laughter.) In considering that question they must bear in mind the changes which these Uni versities had of late years undergone. It was go generally agreed, and it must be awe sel by all who approved of the changes which had taken place, that the education given in our Universities some 20 years, or even so lanely as 10 years ago, was not adequate t i the knowle ige and wants of the present day.—(Elear hear.) It had been stated to him in a letter by a person engaged in the task of education at Oxford, that some ten years ago chymistry was entirely neglected, that al though honours were conferred in mathematics, mathe matics were little attended to, that modern history scarcely received any attention, and that, even on the subject of classical education, there existed a great de ficiency of attainment. The writer of the letter said : —" I breve etatel that our studits were alto gat exclusively dialectical. How limited the range of reading has been of late is sesu %awl we reflect that mathematics, though encouraged by the offer of high honour:, nro but litt'e cvltivated among us; that an acquaintance with the ele ments of natural sciences is rare ; that law, though we cite degrees in that faculty, has long been neglected; that modern history has never formed part of our sys tem; that political economy is Joked upon with fear and aversion— nay, that the knowledge of ancient history exhibited by the ab'est students seldom goes beyond the contents of Hcrodotus and Thu cvdides, and the first desada of Livy, with the addition of a small portion of Tacitus. It is confessed by all that the art of writing Latin well is possessed by few, and Greek was never wail written here. But what will per haps surprise your Lordship, neither Homer, nor Cicero, nor Domusthenes, nor Plautus, nor Qaintilian, nor Te rence, nor the minor Greek orators, nor Lucretius are read by any large portion of oven the most diligent young men; and that it is seldom, indeed, that they are pre sented at the public examinations." His correspondent went on to state, that within the last few years this de le.ct has been corrected; that his University was no longer open to then reproach, that these matters had been made the subjects of attention and study, and that examinations had been ordered with respi:ct to them. nut, art r allowing for all the claims that could ho made for the improvements introduced into those Universi ties, there evidently existed still a very great defect in the system of education pursued in them, a defect which must be admitted by all who candidly considered the sulejecn It was- true that, by the decisions that had been lately made both at Cambridge and at Ox ford, the important subject of modern history and the other subjects which he had mentioned, had been admitted as questions for examination, and ;heave had become subjects of study at the colleges_ ; but then the question arose how to combine that which had been hitherto the distinctive character of our Universities — namely, the study in the colleges by tutorial instruction, with the instruction by professors who were named and appointed to teach those important subjects. On this point those with whom he hal spoken—who had been ducated at these Universities, and who had taken an important pert in c ducation there—had stated that there was a can,ilerable defect still existing, an 1 that that defect consisted very much in the restrictions which were placed by the will of the founders, and by the deeds of endowment of the several colleges- with regard to the mode of electing to the fellowships of those col leges. Unless that defect were entirely removed the great change introduced at Oxford and Cambridge could never give the full proof which ought to be expected. It ought to be expected, from the introduction cf lectures on modern history, chyrniatry, political economy, that the young men woull have in the colleges suf ficient instruction upon these subjects to enable them to derive, all the benefit of the lectures they should hear from the professor. There were two reasons for a de ficiency ; one, that the professors could not obtain the attendance of the young men sufficiently often and with iufficient continuity of attention to enable them to de rive all the benefit they ought ; and, next, that the col leges, having been instituted with a view to a mode of instruction more favourable to classical learning at Ox ford, and to mathemat'cal at Cambridge, there were not in those colleges fellows who were able or inclined, from their studies, to carry the young men on in the know ledge of those parts of learning which the two Universi ties, of their own accord, had declared to be necessary to a good education. The present Fri fessor of Modern History in the University of Cambridge, Sir James Ste phen, as -that gentleman had informed him (Lord John Russell), could give unly one lecture per week, of one hour, or an hour-and-a-half, or two hours duration. Instruction of an hour or an hour-and-a-half, and that during term time, was not sufficient on so important end great a subject. It was therefore necessary to combine that education which was to be given by professors. according to the system adopted, with the ancient collegiate manner of teaching which had prevailed in the Univers ties, and which he (Lord John Russell), for one, would bo very sorry to see destroyed, or even diminished.—(Hear, hear.) But, not wishing to in troduce anything in the direction of instruction by lectures beyond what the Universities themselves had introduced by the steps they hdd taken from time to time—the last, by the University of Oxford, only within a few hours—he thought it desirable ti combine that mode of instruction with the collegiate, which was• the established mode of instruction in the Universities. Tee ohztaele was the manner in which, by various Acts, by the wills of the founders in many instances, follows must be, taken from a certain family or county ; and there were other restrictions of the same kind. It ought to be the object to combine these two educations in such a way that the follows of colleges should be among the men who were the bast instructed, not only in classics and mathematics, but also in various branches of study —(Hear, hear)—and that they should direct the atten• tion of the young men, not solely or exclusively to those branches of study which had hitherto been taught, but be able to assist them in all the professorial instruction, which, without the other, would be very much lost.— (Hear, hear.) There did not appear to be any great eifficulty in attaining that object, which at the -same time was ore which could not be attained by the Universities themselves. It was only in some very rare instances that they had been able with great pains to discover that they had power to reform their statutes. Supposing it desirable to make these changes, was there any conclusive reason why they should not be attempted? There did not appear to be any.—(Elear, hear.) The only reason which could be alleged was, that such re spect ought to be paid to the wi ll o f the founders that it ought not to be interfered with even for a great and im portant good. That principle could hardly be contended for by his Hon. Friend the Member for the University of Oxford, who must allow that the change, on the de sirableness of which he (Lord J. Russell) agreed, that took plat* at the Reformation, was a change setting en tirely aside the will and intentions of the founders— (Hear, hear)—and applying institutions for purposes akin to the purposes for which they were founded; though there was an entire diversity in the application of the funds from that intended by the founders, who, in many instances, had left those funds for Roman Catholic purposes. When the lion. Gentleman very placidly ob served that the Church of England reformed itself, it was to be remarked that there was a great deal to he said as to the reformation of the Church and also of the Uni versities; because, if ono looked to the heads of col leges, ho would find that a certain master was appointed by Edward VI.; that in the time of Mary another was ter was put in; and, again, in the time of Elizabeth that master was forcibly ejected, and a new master and a new head put in his place. His Hon. Friend might call that the Church of England reforming itself, but, in fact, it was a very strong interference of the State—(llear)— and carried out with all the will and determination which characterised the two sisters, Mary and El zebeth.— (Hear, hear.) What was there, if a great object were in view, to prevent interference so far with the wills of these founders as to enable the colleges to place in the situation of fellows, and thereby assist in the education of the youth of these two Universities, the most capable men whom they could find in each University or else where?—(Hear, hear.) In the report of the Scotch University Commission it was said, with reference to the University of Aberdeen : " One objection, which was very strongly urged, was, that the union of the two independent Universities ne cessarily involved a violation of foundation charters and deeds of endowment, as well as an infringement on the vested rights of individuate. Considering that the foundation charters of both Universities proceed on the narrative of its having been the object of their founders to promote religion and sound learning in the north of Scotland, we were not disposed to attach much importance to this objection as directed against apt= which was clearly calculated to further • those ends. We were, moreover, disposed to think that ale e the rights of present incumbents are preserved entire such an argument against gislative interference fur the public good with trusts constitutd hr the pubic benefit w-s not entitled to any weight." Ile must observe, however, that the C.,mmisiloners went on t say, that if the object could be accomplished with out interference it would be prole' able; but if the end for which the 'truth were givea was kept in vie w—pro moting religion and sound learning—they held that there was a right to interfere. So with respect to the univer sities uf Ort'ord and Cambridge. Th nigh the Hon. Member for the University of Oxford said the argument applied to three or four college; only of Oxfori, yet in some of those which were among the most richly en doomed there was what in in,Thanical science would be called a tvas'e of rower to a great erveat, so that with the most learned persons employed in the education of 3 outh the object was not attained, owing to the manner in which the foundation deeds were so literally complied w.th. How was a remedy tote applied? Smne p.ople said a Bill ought to be introduced enabling the Univer sities and colleges to make the necessary changes. But it appeared to him (Lord J. Russell) with respect to a question of this kind, and some others akin to it, that an inquiry' by a Royal Commission would be eminently ser viceable, and would tend tr make the changes in the Universities more complete and efficien'. It was his intention, therefore, not to vote for the motion, and he had to state that it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to advise her Majesty to issue a Royal C mansission is inquire into the revenuer and education of the two Universities. There would have been an ap pearance of hostility is issuing a commission of inquiry ten years ago, when such a proposition was made; bat if there were persons approving inquiry who belonged to those Universities, had been educated in them, and re tained feelings of regard and reverence for those places of education, and if the inquiry to be made was to be made in a friendly spirit, ho could not see that anything but benefit would result. The inquiries t be instituted would, he thought, be of the utmost advantage to the education of the peop!e of this country.—(Hear, hear.) It was stated that 1,600 young persons were educated at Oxford. That education might be extended to a touch greater number. The people of this country, without_ entering into the question of churchmanship and dissent, had the grc atest interest in seeing that these funds were applied to the encouragement of sound learning and to the instruction of the youth at the most moderate rate.—a (Hear, hear.) Such, he believed, WU in fact the ititea= tion which animated the f minders of the greater part, it not the whole of these colleges, When they wets founded, the gee attest desire prevailed among men et wealth and property, and among the sovereigns arjd princes of this realm, to promote education in the largest sense, according to the best knowledge that could b procured.—(Hear, heir.) His belief was, that by pro inotieg education in the largest sense, combined with the religion and morality which these great institutions were sure to maintain in the present day, they would be adding another security for the maintenance of their in stitutionn and be teaching a larger body of the people to leek to these Universities as places where their sons might obtain the best eduation that could be attained, and might be fitted for the purposes of life.—(bear,, Lear.) Nor wa, ho in the least deterred by the conside ration that the Universities had educated the most eminent men of this country. If young men of talent were sent to a University they would excel in that place, and afterwards in Parlieraent and tie councils of their country. The question was, whether all the e incation was given to young men during youth that could bo given to enable them to fulfil " nonly and magnanimously" in the language of Milton, the offices and duties to which they might be called. He, therefore, hoped the', while the House need not come to a decision on the motion, a Commission, which should be appointed with the view of aiding and assisting the Univereities in the noble object of retorm which they bad before them, would be received by them as a token of the interest which the ,Crown took in their welfaie, and would be the means of making them still more useful and still more learned than they had approved themselves hitherto.—(Cheers.) Mr. GOULBURN regretted that, however disposed to go along with the Noble Lard in the commencement and in m any parts of his speech, his feeling of se d s tn e • tion had been greatly diminished by the concluding an nouncement that it was intended to advise tee Crown to issue a Commission of Inquiry into the re venute and education of the Univerities of Oxford and Cambridge (Rear, hear.) It was impossible for any man, even on the other bide of the House. who had a regard for the honour and interest of the Universities, to agree to the motion which had g iven rise to this discussion. The admissi m of Dissenters to the Universities was a question to be decided by 'Parliament, and not by a Commission. He was not prepared to enter on a discussion as to the legal right of such a Commission, because, if the object was to benefit the Universities, he was couvinced that the appointment of a Commission was not the proper mode.—(Hear, hear.) It was aduaittsd that great changes bed been effected practically in the Uuis ersities, that great improvements had been made in the mode of teach ing and the extent of knowledge to which the students were introduced. They had been introduced without the aid of a Commission.—(Heir, hear.) The efforts of the Universities would be thwarted, controlled, and defeated by such a measure. Everything might be done by the Universities and the Crown, on consul tation, and in concurrence, adopting improvements which might be mutually suggested. The Noble Lord rejoiced that ten years ago a Commission was not issued; ho would, ten years hence, rejoice if the pre out measure was not carried out.—(Hear, They ought to bear in mind what had been done by the concurrence of the Crown and the Universities during the last ten years. Ile was speaking of n Commission which should carry the complete c oncurrence of the body into which it had to inquire. Ho would ask whether the Secretary of the Home Depertment had not had the Crown and the authorities of the University concurring when most valuable a mendments of the statutes were submitted to his consideration on the part of a college of Cambridge? Why did the Noble Lord adopt a different course of action? That a great deal had been done within the last ten years was undisputed and indisputable; the pro f...ssors' lecture, were open to all; new branches of study had been introduced; but, said the Noble Lord, the time allotted to the professors' lectures was so ex tremely short, that it was impossible any progress could bo made in a particular science. In the first place, under the new system it was not merely the Professor of Modern History who was to give lec tures iu his own particular branch, but duties of a cor responding character had been imtosed on other pro fessors; and if men were to be instructed in many branches of knowledge it was impossible to assign to each that full measure of instruction which it appeared to be the object of the Noble Lord to give to those who studied modern his.ory. But was the Noble Lord right as to the fact with regard to modern history ? Why, he must be notoriously misinformed, for the fact was that Sir James Stephen gave threw lectures a week to numerous and crowded audiences, receiving that tribute of applause to which his knowledge and talents pre-eminently entitled him. That was a matt T assuredly on which the Noble Lord need not think it necessary to send a Com mission to Cambridge to inquire into. Bat the Noble Lord raid ho roust have his Commission, because he wanted to engraft on the tutors a knowledge of those sciences now taught by the professors. Ile (Mr. Gout. burn) did not deny that, having made one great change in the university system by opening new honours to new bra,ncheteof learning, therefore some changes of a subor dinate nature mightnot also be necessary; but those who had made the great change were surely competent to make the minor changes that might be re quisite.— (lit ar, hear.) The Universities had acted neither ha , tily nor rashly; but the Noble Lord set up some new theory of statutes altogether, end stated that the colleges im posed a prohibition on the election to fellowships of men who were competently informed on the several new branches of education which had been introduced into the University course. He told the Noble Lord that there was nut a college in the University of Cambridge which prescribed a mote of examination by which fel lowships were to be obtained, and if the University of its own accord chess to decide that fellowships should de pend on the tripos altogether, it was in their own breasts to make those the topics of examination, and to base the granting of fellowships exclusively upon a knowledge of modern history or bot say, instead of upon mathematics and classics, as they formerly depended.—(Bear.) Bat would the Commission have no evil effect? Did the Noble Lord suppose, when he chose five or six or seven Commissioners to go down to Cirhieridge with all the pomp and circumstance with which probably they would be invested, that their arrival would not at once arrest all progress of improvement on the part of those who had hitherto dedicated themselves to the work? Did he think it possible that those Commissioners could bring before them the heads of houses without interfering with the progress cf what was there going on, without pars lt zing the efforts of those who were no N labouring in the cause he wished to advance, and without casting an im putation on their conduct and motives, fur that would inevitably be taken to be the meaning of such an inquiry. —(clear, hear.) He sincerely trusted that the Noble Lord would now, as his Government had. done in 1836, reconsider the proposal he had just announced to the House. He pretended not now to enter into a discus sion with the Noble Lord as to the best mode of edu cation to be pursued in the Universities of England; although he should be sorry, as far as his own feelings were concerned, that the minds Of young men should be diverted from that attention to mathematical studied and classical literature which he believed to be the foundationof eminence in any future position in which a person might be placed.—(Hear.) And, though he was quite prepared to admit the advantage of having ex tended that circle of knowledge to the sciences, which were now to be pliteed on an equal - footing with &as sical and mathematical knowledge, yet he did hope that they would not be pursued to the extent of exterminating the other, and that the Commission would not go down imbued with a feeling in favour of those new studies which should eradicate all taste and affection for the old, on which he believed the future welfare and emi nence of individuals and the prosperity of the country mainly depended.—,'Cheers.) He did not stop to argue the legality of issuing the proposed Commission; but he said if the Noble Lord bad objects in view which ap peared t o be deserving the attention of the University, that there would be no difficulty, without a Commission, of securing the concurrence of the'University authorities. If, however, the Noble Lord should attempt by a vio lent exercise of authority to send down a Commission, in itself of doubtful legality—which he and many greet lawyers believed to be of settled illegality—(Hear)—he would involve himself and the body whom ho sought to benefit in a course of contentious hostility, which would be anything but favourable to the object he profeste I to have in view. He should therefore content himself on the present occasion with earnestly expressing his hope that the Noble Lord would re-consider the decision ho had expressed to the House, and not place those learned bodies in the painful situation of coming into coat set with the Crown, but would rather endeavour, by conci liatory approaches to them, and by profiting by their greater experience than his own iu the mode and con duct of education, to facilitate the continuance of those improvements which had been by then spontaneowaly began, and which, ho was sure, would be continued by those who took the lead (at least in the University wieh which he was connected) with evs:ry disposition t) give effect to them to the fullest extent. He certainly had not expscted to have heard a proposit:en of yeas nat. uro from the Noble Lord on grounds so utterly untenable; and t‘e could not at all alelit the similarity of the caie with the uniting of the two Scotch colleges. IF, indee I, the Noble Lord intended t i act upon that principle, et.d pro posed to unite two or three, colleges in a University in order to diminish what the Noble Lord termed a " use less waste of power," he would call down upon himself the deserved hostility of all who had any regard for the law, or who viewed the rights and wishes of founders as worth anything.—(Cheers.) He entirely diffete 1 from the Noble Lord's proposition of granting this Commis sion. He thought it would be more than useless—that it would be positively pernicious.—(Cheers.) Mr. SCULLY, amidst led terous calls for a division, complained that the Noble Lord had not promised to send a Commission to inquire into the state of Trinity College, Dublin. Tho It name Catholics of Ireland formed the great majority of the people, and ought to hrve a share of the funds which were intended for the education of the Irish. He should move an amendece tt to the proposition of the Noble Lord, or must request the lion. Member for North Lancashire not to with draw that portion of his motion which related to Trinity College. Mr. HEYWOOD said he looked upon the off r made by the N solo Lord as so important that he should be spi•e willing to w:thiraa, his motion.—(Cries of " No, no 1" and " Divide.") He agreed that it was very inn portant, to have a Commission sent to Dublin, and should he happy to support a motion to that effect, but at pre sent he begged to withd - aw his own motion. Mr. R. PALMER, raid, the course which had been taken rendered it very important that more time should he given for the fall discussion of this question.— (" Hear," and " Divide.") The intention of the Govern ment had not been announced till half-past ten o'clock, and the previous course of the debate coup not have given an idea to those interested in the Universities of the proposition which the Noble Lord was about to esalse.—(Hear, hoar.) That praposiion involved ques tions not only affecting education in the Universities of tno greatest unportartae, but also legal "questions of the greatest importance; and on that =omit he deemed it recessary that the deb ate should not now close.—(Hear, hear.) With regard 'to the Commission, he conceived that it would be, 'ass illegal one. It appeared to contempia e the very 'thing which King James If. had atteelpted. The resistance offerel to that movement of li:trig James by the college to which he belonged ex !dna :d their faithfulness to their statutes aid lawe, and he had no doubt, if a similar visitation were forced on the Universities, contrary to the law and their statutes, that it would at this day be mat with a resistance 'such as it met with then, and on that ground he m)ved that the debate be now adjournecl.—(E - lear, hear.) Lard J RUSSELL hoped the House would not object to an adjournment, for he quite admitted that when he rose the House had had no ietimation of his intention. —(Hear, hear.) lie thought the lion. Gentleman was mistaken in thinking that it was not competent to the Crown to issue a Commission. Commissioners so ap pointed might ask persons to go before them, and the persons so invited might, if they were willing, go. The power of forcing persons to produce deeds was possibly quite another question.—(A laugh.) Mr. LAW threw out for the consideration of the Noble Lord, in the presence of the Hon. and Learned the Attorney and Soliciter-Generels, whether it would not be p'aeing the Crown in a predicament by forcing on a reluctant university and on colleges over which they had no jurisdiction an inquiry against their will and consent ? The Noble Lord had experienced the lenefit of proece ling hand in hind with the heads of the Uni versities in effecting such reforms as were desirable; for they had been reformed hitherto, not by the juris diction of the Crown, but by the colleges themselves, in voking the aid of the Crown. What he should contend for was this, that, where there was a special visitor of a college, and that visitor had not failed in his duty. there was no jurisdiction in the Crown t.) issue a Commission Inquiry against the will of the parties ; no power, the CZnntiais;ion wire issued, to enforce the attendance of witnesses; and, farther, no power to effect a change in the foundation.—(Hear, hear.) They might just as well atte net to change the foundation of every charity in England.—(ficar, hear.) He contended that there was no power without an Act of Parliament of doing that, and without that power the affair would be title more than a farce. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would not have desired to trouble the House with any observaions had it not been for the doubt thrown out by his Hun. and Learned Friend the Member for Plymouth (Mr. R. Palmer), which seemed to be participet .d in by the Recorder (Mr. Law). He. (the Aq rrney-General) bogged the House t ► understand that it was from no doubt entertained by his Noble Friend, or by those with erhos: concurrence he acted with regard to the legality of the proposed Commission, that he had assented to the adjournment of the debate. He believed that it pre ceded from a simple misconception of the nature and character of the proposed Commission that doubt was entertained of its legality by any one. If it hal been an Executive Commission to enforce an inquiry, to insist upon the production of documents, to cotnpcl the exami nation of witnesses, to alter statutes and make regula tions, he concurred with those who thought it would be illegal, and that they could not attempt to assert any authority in such a case as the present, unless the Com mission were founded upon an Act of Parliament. — (Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord had not for a single moment suggested such a Commission of that nature. — (Hear, hear.) In reference to a remark made by his Hon. Friend opposite (Mr. H. Pa'mer) that there might be resistance to the production of evidence, his Noble Friend had merely said that in that case the Commission could not insist upon the information revested.—(Hear, hear.) If any lion. Member really had a doubt of the legality of a Commission of the kind proposed, he would remind him of the precedents recently adopted by former Governments. What was the difference, for instance, between a Commission such as WAS now proposed for the purpose of examining- willing wit lessee and docu • meats willingly produced, and that Commission issued by the Right lion. Gentleman the Member for Tam• worth to inquire into the constitution of the deans and chapters of England ?—(llear, hear.) There W 34 also the case of the Commission which inquired int) the mu • nicipel corporations of England and Wales. In each of these cases the object of the Commission was not to make regulations or enforce opinions, but to collect in formation from parties willing to afford it, with the view of inducing the Legislature te found upon that informa tion, if ne3esssry, a future Act of Parliament.—(Rear, hear.) Upon the information so collected on both these subjects, the Legislature were ultimately enabled to found valuable measures ; and it was with the same view—viz., to facilitate the improvements which were in progress in the Universities, that the Noble Lord had suggested the proposed Commission.—(Hear, hear, and cries of " Divide.") Mr. BEST maintained that the Universities of Ox ford and Cambridge had always had peculiar privileges, and while he had a seat in that House they should con tinue to have them.—(laughter.) Yes, in spite of thl oppos - tion of Hon. Members on the Ministerial benches who belonged to all sects, all grades, all bodies, knew not what to call them—religions, he should sup port the Universities through thick and thite—(Leugh ter.) He should therefore oppose the motion of the Hue. Member for North Lancashire. Mr. HENLEY was afraid that the explanation cf the Attorney-General would not be very consolatory to the Universities; for he begged the House to bear in mind what had followed the inquiries into the municipal cor porations, and deans and chapters, to which tee Huts. and Learned Gentleman had referred--e(Hear, hear)— becawe, if it was the intention of the Government to follow up this Commission in the same way as those pre vious Commissions had been followed up, the learned bodies connected with the colleges had better be careful whet information they gave, seeing that the object of the Commission was likely to be, by a bland coun tenance and civil words, to fish out cf them the means of sending theta t r the right about when the information was obtained.—(Hear, heir.) It was very adroit of the Noble Lord is say that he would separate this inquiry from the question of the admission of Dissenters into the Universities. It was as much as to say, "give me the means of inserting the thin edge of the wedge, and I shall afterwards be able to achieve the object which Ido not now choose t) avow."—(Rear, hear.) Colonel SIB FHORP, after thanking the Hon. Mem ber for Kidderminster (Mr. Best) for the manly course which he promised to pursue in that House, proceeded to say that the Noble Lord had on this creation adopted an evasive mode of proceeding similar to that which he (Colonel Sibthorp) hal taken the liberty of characteriz• ing in humble - language on the previous night.—(Latigh ter.) The Noble Lord was going to issue another Com mission—paid or not he did not care. But he knew what the Commission would b"; it would be self-created as all Government measures, and it would do no good to the Universities, whose interests the Noble Lord professed to have at heart.—(flear, hear.) It was, as be had said of some others of their measures, a shuftle—another Ministerial trick.—(gear hear.) He hoped the House would divide and compel Lion. Members to declare them selves upon this subject. These were times in which they ought to know who were sincere and who were not. lie had great respect for the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for the University of CambridgeGoul bourn) but be hoped ho would fo r g ive him toe saying that if he and the Peelite section to which he belonged, bad not supported the present Government, they would not now have had an opportunity of creating another dirty Commission.—(Laughte r. ) Mr. SCULLY, amidst loud cries ,, of "divide," asked the Noble Lord at the head of the overnment, whetht r he intended to include Trinity College, Dublin, in the proposed measure? Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say, that he did not think that Trinity College could be conveniently included. The House then divided on the question of the ad journment of the debate, when there appeared— Ayes, ... 273 Noes Majority ... —242 The debate was then adjourned. SIR THOMAS TURTON'S DEFALCATIONS. Mr. ROEBUCK moved the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the defalcations occurring during the registrarship of Sir T. Turton, Registrar of the Supreme Court of Judicature at Bengal, and to re• port the course which should be adopted in consequence of those defalcations. There o mid not be two opinions as to the claims of the sufferers to be indemnified by somebody or other.—(Hear, hear.) The Committee would ascertain who that somebody was by inquiring into the eircumFtances of the appointment of Sir 'l'. Turton, the persons to whom he ought to have ac counted, and where the lathes had been. Sir J. HOBHOUSE gave his cordial assent to the mo tion— (Hear, hear)—and he had no doubt, as on a si milar unhappy occasion in 1828, it would be agreed to by the House without discussion. When the C )mmit tee had m :de their report he would state his own opinion on the subject.—(Hear, h( Sir J. HOGG said the course adopted by the Right Hon. Baronet was most fair and judicious. Lie the Right Hon. Baronet, he should abstain from expressing his opinion on the subject until the Committee had made their report. Motion agreed to. CHANCERY AND LUNACY FEES. The SOLICITOR GENERAL moved that the House go into Committee for the purp se of agreeing to a re solution upon which to found a Bill to enable the Lord High Chancellor of England to authorise the collection of fees payable in relation to proceedings in the Court of Chancery, and in lona-y, by means of stamps. It was considered that, by the means of these stamps much time and trouble now expend:A in the collection of fees would be saved. Mr. HENLEY said the public most justly expect&, that not only time and trouble would be saved, but that a considerable amount of the fees themselves, and of the expense of collecting them woubl be saved.—(Hear.) The SOLICITOR-GENERAL had no doubt that the Bill, once in operation, would enable the Lord Chancellor to effect the object desired by the Honourable G•r.ntlemte.—(Hear The House then went into Committee, and the resolu- tion was agreed to. A Bill, founded on the resolution was subsequently brought in and read a first time. SNVINGS FUND. On the motion of Mr. SIAANEY, the following Gee men were appointed a Select Committee on savings of the middle and working classes:—Mr. Slaney, Mr. John Abel Smith, Mr. Lehauehere, Mr. Cardwell, Mr. Greene, Mr. Ewart, Lord James Stuart, Mr. James Garth Marshall, Mr. Wilson Patten, Lord Nugent, Mr. Stafford, Sir Robert Ferguson, Mr. Littleton, Mr. John Ellis, and Mr. Frederick Peel. BOROUGH JUSTICES. Mr. MUNTZ obtained leave to bring in a Bill to authorise justices of any :borough, having a separate gaol, to commit assize prisoners to such gaol, and to ex tend the jurisdiction of borough jultlees to a'l offences and matters arising within the borough for which they act. WOOD USED IN SHIPBUILDING. Mr. MITCHELL moved that the Lieuse go into Com mittee on this Bill; but, on being requested to postpone it, aske I the Chancellor of the Exchequer what course he intended to pureue with reference to it when it should be proceeded with? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sad he had taken the utmost pains to obtain accurate inform.- lion on the subject, and finding that it would be impos sible to provide security against frauds in allowing the drawbacks proposed by the Hon. Gentleman, he was compelled to say that he mutt oppose the Bill. Ile ad mitted that the timber duties were in a very unsatisfac tory state, end that his H m. Friend hal most fairly ap plied his attention to the subject.—(Hear, hear.) Viscount JOCELYN hoped tie Hon. Gentleman would bring forward the Bill on the earliest possible day A great number of parties were waiting for tba result of it, to decide whether they should send their ships to be repaired in the Baltic or have them repaired at home. The Noble Lord complained that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not been courteous in replying to a ques- Lien he had that evening pat to him on this very impor tant subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had in tended no discourtesy towards the Noble Viscount. All he hal said, when the Noble Lord asked him what le intended to do in the matter. WAS that the qeestion hid better be asked when the Hon. Gentleman who had charge of the Bill should bring it forward. Sir G. PECIIELL regretted the decision to which the Government had come upon this Bill. Mr. HUDSON hoped there would be as little delay as passible in proceeding with the measure. The announce ment e f the Right Hoe. Baronet would canse very great m trtification to the shipping interest. Mr. MITCHELL would postpone the Committee on the Bill till that day fortnight, and he hoped then to assign reasons tl.at would remove the objections of the ' Right Hon. Baronet. The Committee was postponed accordingly till that day fortnight. I The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the House adjourned at a Qiarter past Twelve. PARLIAMEN TAR Y DI VISIONS. (From the 'Votes and Proceedings if the Home rf Commons ) TUESDAY, APRIL 23. ENGLISH AN U IRISH UNIVERSITIES. Motion made, and Question proposed, " That all systems of academical Education require from time to time some ' mo, - iification, from the change of external circumstances, the progress of opinion, and the intellectual improvement of the people: That in the ancient English and Irish Universities, and in the Colleges connected with them, the interests of religi ous and useful learning have not advanced to an extent commensurate with the great resources and high position of those bodies; that collegiate statutes of the fifteenth century occasional') prohibit the local authorities from introducing any alterations into voluminous codes, of which a large por tion are now obsolete; that better laws are needed to regu. late the ceremony of matriculation and the granting of degrees; to dimin'sh the exclusiveness of the University Libraries; to provide, for a fairer distribution of the rewards of scientific and literary merit; to extend the permission of marriage to tutors of colleges; and to facilitate the registra tion of electors for the Universities; that additional checks might be considered with referexce to the continued extra vagance of individual students; and that the mode of tenure of college property ought to be ameliorated, particularly in Ireland : " That as it is her Majesty's right and prerogative to name Visitors and Commissioners to inquire into the ancient Universities and Colleges of E-igland and Ireland, an humble Address be presented to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty will be graciously 'leased to issue her Royal Com mission of Inquiry into the sate of the Universities and Colleges of Oxford, Cambridge, and Dublin, with a view to assist in the adaptation of those important ins itutions to the requirements of modern times:"—Debate aris . ng, &lotion made, and Question put, " That the Debate be now ad ourncd." The House divided: teIAJORITY—AYES, 273. Floyer, John Napier, Joseph Fordyce, A. D. Newdegate, N. Forster, M. Newport, Viscount lertescue, Chichester Nugent, Lord F , x, W. J. O'Brien, Sir Lucius French, F. Ogle, S. C. Frewen, C. 11. Oswald, Alexander Gasket', J.M. Paget, Lord C. Gladstone, W. E. Pakington, Sir J. Goalburn, Henry Palmer, Robert Grace, 0. D. • Palmerston, Viscount Graham, Sir James Parker, John Greenall, Gilbert Pechell, Sir G. Greene, John Peel, .Sir Robert Greene, Thomas Peel, Colonel Grentell, Charles W. Peel, Frederick Grey, Sir George Perfect, it. Grey, Ralph W. Pigott, Francis G regal], Edward Pilking ton, James Grosvenor, Earl Pinney, William Halt, Sir Benjamin Plowden, W. 11. rlalsey. T. P. Pori al, Melville Hamilton, G. A. Power, Dr. • Hatimer, Sir John Price, Sir It Hardzastle, J. A. Prime, Richard Harris, Captain Rawdon, Colonel Hastie, Alexander Renton, J. C. Mastic, Archibald Repton, G. W. J. Hatchet!, John Ricardo, Osman Hawea, B. Rice, E. R. Hayter, W. G. Richards. Richard Henley, J. W. Robartes, T. J. Herbert, Sidney Roebuck, J A. Hervey, Lord A. Rornilly, Colonel Heywood, James Romilly, Sir John Hayworth, Lawrence Russell, Lord John Ilildyard, R. C. Russell, F. C. li. Hill, Lord E. SadiairVohn 11111, Lord Marcus Salwey, Colonel Hobhouse, Sir John Stindars, George Hodgson, W. N. Scholedrid, Willi= Hogg, Sir J. W. Scully, Francis Hollond, Robert Seymer, H. K. Hood, Sir A. Seymour, Lord Hope, Alexander Sheridan, R. B. Hotharn, Lord Sibthorp, Colonel Howard, C. W. Simeon, John Howard, P. 11. Slaney, Robert A. Hudson, George Smith, R. V. Hughes, W. B. Smith, M. Tucker Inglis, Sir R. 11. Somerset, Captain Jerilyn, Earl Somerville. Sir W. Jervis, Sir John Sotheron, T. Jocelyn, Viscount Stafford, Augustus Johnstone, Sir J. Stanford, J. F. Jolliffe, Sir W. G. Stanton, W. H. Jones, Captain Stuart, Lord D. Keating, Robert Stuart, Lord J. Keogh, William Stuart, 11. Kershaw, James Sturt, llenry G. King, PJ. T en ison, E. K. . Labouchere, Henry Tennant. R. J. Law, C. E. Thickness°, Ralph . Lemon' Sir C. Thompson , Colonel Lennard, T. B. Thornely, T. Lennox, Lord A. Tollemache, F. J. Lewis, George C. Townley, R. G. Lindsay, Colonel Townsheud, Captain Littleton, E. R. Trelawny, J. S. Locke, Joseph Trevor, G. R. Lopes, Sir Ralph Trollope, Sir J. LOW tiler, Colonel Tuthell, H. Mackenzie, W. F. Turner, George Mackie, John Tyrell, Sir J. M`Naghten, Sir E. Verner, Sir W. M'Cullagh , W. T. Verney Sir H. Mahon, O'Gorman Vyse, H. Mahon, Viscount Waddington, David Mangles, R. D. Waddington, H. S. Martin, Samuel Walpole, Spencer Masterman, John Walter, John Madieson, Colonel Wellesley, Lord C • Mania, Fox Willcox, Brodie Melgund, Viscount Williams, John Mitchell, T. A. Wilson, James Monsell, William Wilson, Matthew Morris, David Wortley, J. S. Mostyn, E. Wood, Sir Charles Mullings, J. R. Wyvill, M. Mundy, William TELLERS. Murata, G. F. Palmer, Roundell Naas, Lord Cardwell, Edward &eland, Sir T. D. Adair, Hugh E. Adair, R. A. Mcock, ThomaS Alexander, N. Anderson, Arthur Armstrong, R. B. Ashley, Lord Bailey, Joseph Baines, H. T. Baring, H. B. Baring, Sir F. Baring, Thomas Barnard, E. G. Sass, Thomas Bateson, T. Beckett, W. Bellew, It. AL Bennet, P. Beresford, William Berkeley, C. L. Bernard, Viscount Best, John Birch, Sir T. Blake, H. J. Blaketnore, It. Booth, Sir R. G. Bouverie, R. P. ' Boyd, John Boyle, Colonel Bramston, T' Brisco, Brockman, E. D. Brooke, Lord Brotherton, J. Bulkeley, Sir R. B. Campbell, W. F. Carew, W. P. Carter, John B. Caulfeild, J. H. Cavendish, G. IL Cayley, Edward S. Chat terton, qolonel Chichester, Lord J. Childers, J. W. Cholmeley, Sir H. Christopher, It. Christy, Samuel Clay, James Clements, Charles Clifford, 11. XL Cobbold, J. C. Cockburn, A. J. Cocks, T. S. Codrington, Sir W. Colebrooke, Sir T. Coles, H. 13. Col Vile, C. B. Corry, 11. Cowper, W. F. Currie, Henry Curteis, H.H. Da rymple, Captain Davie, Sir 11, Dawson, T. V. Denison, J. E. D'Eyncourt, C. T. Dod, J. W. Drammond, llenry Duff, George S. Duff, James Duncan, George Duncuft, Jobu Pan das, Admiral Dundas, Sir David Dunne, Colowl Du Pre, C. G. East, Sir J. Ebrington, Lord Edwards, Henry Ellice, E., jun. Ellis, John Elliot, J. E. Estcourt, J. B. B. Evans, J. Evans, William Ewart, William Fagan, William Farrer, James Fergus, John Ferguson, Sir R. Ferguson, Sir R. MINORITY—NOES. 31. Forbes, Wm. Forester, G. C. Fox, S. L. Galway, Viscount Gwyn, Howel Ilildyard, T. B. T. Lascelles, E Loveden, Pryse Lygon, General Wraggart, Sir J. Miles, P. W. S. Milner, W. 31. Baggo, W. Baldoek, E. 11. Bankes, G. Bentinek, Lord IL Blackstone, W. Blair, Stephen Bromley, Robert Brown, 11. Osborne, Ralph Rendlesham, Lord Smyth, John CL Stanley, Edward Talbot, C. R. Thompson. Aid. Williamson, Sir 11. Buck, Lewis W. Coke, E. K. Corbally, M. E. Evelyn, W. J. TELLINEI. Lawless, Cecil llobhouse, T. B. THE TEA TRADE, APRIL 22.—Last week's de liveries of tea in London were not quite en large as those up to the date of the 15th inst., but they were nevertheless rather full, being 594,1101 b. The market , has been corn. partitively inactive. The merit of our actions consists not in doing ex traordinary actions, but i n d o ing ordinary actions extraordi narily well.- Eliza Cook's Journal. ADVERTISEMENT.j—THE EARL OF ALDBOROUGH AND HOLLOWAY'S PILLs.—An astounding cure by this miraculous Medicine, atter every other means had failed. See extract from hi• Lordship's letter, dated " Villa Messina, L eg t, Th vrn Feb. 21, 1845. Prcfessor Holloway—sir :1 beg to acquaint you that your pills have ef fected a care of a disorder in my liver and stomach which all themes' eminent of the faculty, at home and all over the continent, had not been able to effect; nay. not ever the waters of Carlsbad or Ma rienbad. (Signed) " ALDBOROUGIi." These wonderftil pills will cu re any disease of the liver or stomach. — Sold (also HollowaY's Cintm.nt) at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, and by all medicine Vendor,* t ll r9ughout the clvilisod world. hoPed te J t vr 00 13 I t ; 01 pOF the 141° ,at an ,ing $ ll I strY was 11$" :nz fof )11Y — l i ce P, O O ltte e 0r I.lb c°r' rod. e L 0 1.3 , WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 24, 1860. s Er isr I.`: .* ; 1 ---:-: 1 1 p,, s, E -.....„ - ft____-----, rq. , / „s' ;,5° , 1 4 0 :7 'Tr-, 4,41: y& . 111 illt --' TO THE SECRETARY 0 e- - lii — Ai BRADFORD REFORM ASSOCIATION. Sir,—On Monday the 22nd, the debate was re newed on the Australian Colonies Bill. The question was brought up, of the merits of what is known by the name of the Wakefield principle, which may he defined as consisting in refusing to sell waste public land in the colonies at less than a certain price per acre (actually, I believe, twenty shillings) ; the pro ceeds to be applied to the expenses of carrying out emigrants from this country. On this, it strikes me, a remark may be made, with more of clearness than was substantiated by the Monday's debate. And that is, that there are to o possible objects, and two ways*of proceeding adapted to them respectively ; and it is consequently of im portance, that they should be applied each in the right place, and not each in the wrong. If the ob ject is to promote emigration from this country, then there may (under reservations) be r eas on in raising a fund fur that purpose by the sale of land. But if the object is to promote the multiplication and growth of breeding people already there, then it is as well settled as any point can be by experience, that the abundance of good waste land and the fa culty of obtaining it at pleasure, are the grand instru ments for that multiplication of industrious human beings, which must be attended with progress and public strength. To try the question,—under such circumstances as have been supposed, to wit the previous existence of a race of settlers of domestic habits and able to support themselves in a condition above want by the exercise of agriculture, why should there be any price on waste land at all? Why should there not as soon be a bounty, fur the man who by hard delving and digging had brought the greatest quantity into a certain state of reclama tion,—a bounty, in short, upon successful squatting? The determination of the cases where one or the other system ought to be applied, may be a matter sur passing the powers of anybody who is likely to take it in hand; but it does not follow that there are not the two classes of cases, and that it is not useful to be aware cf them. And even where an expense was to be involved in the sending of emigrants to distant colonies, it does not follow too absolutely, that it ought not to be done hut to the extent to which the expenses can be paid by the sale of land. Why does a father not refuse to • let his child learn to read, till in some way he sees his road to being reimbursed by the child's labour for the expense ? Clearly, because he sees is his child's learning a good by itself, a result which, from some connexion of things. he is willing to secure without being paid for it. la the same way it would appear there may be connexions of things in the case cf emigration, which (within limits) may induce a community to go to expense without demanding the instant pecuniary return. On the same evening a regrettable conclusion took place in another direction. The popular aspirations of a Chancellor of the Exchequer are necessarily fragile flowers, and least of all able to resist cold blasts from expected friends. The Chancellor of the Exchequer consequently cried peccavi, on his rashly ventured theory some nights ago, that the rich ought to pay taxes in proportion to their riches. ifs has ccnceded to the pressure made on him by nearly all the Liberals in the House, that they ought to pay less. If the wholesome principle, so rich in conse quences to the poor man, is withdrawn like the morn ing cloud, it is because the Liberal Members in the Hensel would have it se. On Tuesday the night was given to a debate which may be attended with important consequences. The motion was for an Address to the Crown to appoint a Commission of Inquiry into the state of the Uni versities and Colleges of Oxrord, Cambridge, and Dublin. The Conservative benches broached the doctrine, of the incapacity of the Legislature to tale cognizance of the proceedings of the Church or Uni versities ; which brought out a stark denial from the other side. The Prime Minister finally rose, and announced that, without asking the , House to agree in the present motion, it was the intention of Ministers to advise the Crown to appoint a Commission ~f Inquiry into the two English Universities. The Conservatives spoke large words, and likened it to the proceedings of James the Second ; forgetting that in one case the popular feeling was against the Govern ment and in the other with. The Gorham dispute is extending its boundaries; and a quarrel which began about holy water, is leading to consequences as yet unseen. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, AN OLD REFORMER. London, 24th April, 1850. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. BATti AND SOMERSET RACES—TUESDAY. Ile Lansdowne Trial Stokes of 15 sot's. each, 10 fr, and 50 aided; three years old, 7st; four, Bat 71b; tive, 9st; six and ued, 9st 3%; mares, &c, allowed 3tb'. One mile. (14 Subs.) Mr. Molt's Collingwoot/, aged (Flatman) 1 Mr. Jenkins's Miss Larkaway, 3 yrs (Byrne) 2 Captain Harvey's Strongb3w, 4 yrs (A. Day) 3 Betting-7 to lon Collingwood. %Von cleverly by a length. Run in 1 min. b 9 secs. The Somersotshire Stakes tf 25 sot's. each, 15 ft, and 5 only if declared, with 100 sous. added; the second to rec•ive 50/.. aryl the third to save his stake. Two mi!es and a distance. (50 Subs.,l27 of whom declared.) Mr. Drinkald's Sauter-la-Coupe, 69t 61b (Rodney) 1 Duke of Richmond's Halo, 6 yrs, Bst 21b...(lfiatman) 2 Mr. Davi,'s Chorister, 5 yrs, 7st 3ib...(T. Will au3s) 3 Captain Arehdalt's Windischgratz, sst 7lb ...(Treen) 4 Sir J.B. Mill's Won't-you-come-out-to-night (Cowley ) 5 Mr. Fowler's Seagull, 6 yrs, 6st 611 (Evans) 6 Mr. Cowley's Second Sight, 4 yrs, 7st 21b (Dockeray) 7 S.r J. Hawley's Fernhill, 5 yrs, B.t 91b ...(A. Day) 8 Betting-7 to 4 agst Halo, 3to 1 apt Won't you come-out-to-night, 5 to 1 apt Seagull, 10 to 1 agst Chorister, and 10 to 1 egst any other. Won ea.y by two lengths. Chorister a bad third. Halo broke down. Run in four minutes six seconds. Handicap Sweepstakes of 7 soya. eacb, 3 ft, and 25 added. Oa° mile. (12 Subs., Icf whom declared). Mr. T. King's Basta, 4 yrs, 7st 71b... (Goater) 1 Mr. E. Griffiths's nazley, 5 yre, Bst 71b ...(A. Day) 2 The followirg also ran: —Captain Crofton's Pell-melt, 6 yrs, Bst (Williams) —Lord Lurgan's Fugitive, aged, 7st 121b(WhWhe use)—Lord W. Powlett's General Seidlitz, 3 yrs, 7st 10% (Dockeray)—Captain Harvey's Raielagh, 3 yre, 7st 21b (Treen, jun.)—Mr. Goddard's 0:13 by Ratcatcher, 3 yrs, 7st (Rodney)—Mr. Roberts's Pride of Eden, 6 yrs, 7 st (T. Byrne) — Mr. E. Fox's caucton Ds an, 3 yrs, Est Sib (Ford)—Mr. Harris's Lady Day, 4 yrs, Est 51b (Gilbert) --and Captain West's Pa. 11 , 1 la, 4 yrs, 6.t (Cowley). Sweepstakes of 10 soya. etch and 50 added. Heats, one mile and a half. (5 Subs.) Captain Pettat's Eagle's Flume... (Wakefield) 4 1 1 \lr. Saxby's Paquita, 4 yrs ( W. Treen) 3 3 Mr. Parr's Mr. Mantle, 4 yrs (Williams) 24 2 Mr. A. Goddard's cby Eatcatcher (Rodney) 3 2 dr --- COURT CIRCULAR. The Queen and Prince Albert, accompanied by the Princess Royal, the Princess Alice, and the Princess Helena, took a drive in an open carriage and four yesterday. The E que rries in Waiting, Lord . Charles Fitzroy and Lieut.-Colonel Alexander Gordon, attended on horseback. His Royal Highness Prince Albert rode out on horseback yesterday morning, attended by Lieut.- Colonel F. H. Seymour. Their Royal Highness?s the Prince of Wales, Prince Alfred, and the Princess Louisa took the.r umial airings yesterday. Lieut.-Colonel the Hon. C. B. Phipps had the honour of joining the royal dinner party at Bucking ham Palace yesterday evening. Her Irijesty's private band was in attendance in Buckingham Palace on Monday evening, and per formed the following pieces Overture in D Selection, "Jean dze Paris" Boieldieu. Fantasia, " Richard Cmur de Lion" Gretry. Minuetto and Finale, Sinfonia, No. 1 Feldbleamlu Walzer The Marchioness c f Douro has relieved the V.s countess Canning in her duties as the Luly iuWai i to her Kik sty Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, ac companied by his Serene Highness Prine ! Edward of Saxe Weimar, honoured the perfor z ante at her Majesty's Theatre last evening with her presence. tier Royal Highness was atttended by L idy Anna Maria Dawson and S ; r George Couper. His Royal Highness the Duke of C imbridge honoured the Countess of Jersey with Ws company on Monday evening in Berkeley-square. His Royal Hi g hness the Duke of Cambridge l at tended by Major Step.bens, honoured Mr. Burford's Panorama of the Arctic Regions with a visit yestere day. His R )yal Highness paid visit on Monday to Queen Caarlotte's Lying-in hospital. The Committees on Manufactures and Machinery of the Exbiti ion of 1851 had a meeting yesterday in the new Palace of Westminster There were pre sent Mr. T. F. Gibson (Chairman of Manufactures), Sir J. Guest, Mr. Bazley, Mr. Apsley Pellatt, Mr. n e egrave, Mr. Townsend, Mr. Morries Stirling, Mr. J. 11. Vivian, MX, Prdessor Cowper, Mr. H. Hope, Mr. Cubitt (Chairman of Machinery), the Earl of Roses, and Sir John Rennie. Mr. S. Russell, Secre tary to the Royal Commission, attended. Colonel Reid (Choi' man), and Messrs. Cole and Dilke, were pres(nt on the part of the Executive Committee of the 110 3rAl Commission. Mr. Rawlinson, C.E., bad an interview with Earl Grey yesterday at the Colonial-office. Viscount Newry and Mr. Kinloch had an inter view with Ein Granville yesterday, at the office of the Railway Commission in the Board of Trade, on the subject of railway communication in the neigh bourhood of the town of Newry. Dispatches were received yesterday at the Colonial office from the Governors of New South Wales, Australia, New Zealand, the Mauritius, Hong Kong, Ceylon, and Malta. CITY OF LONDIN UNtoN.—The board of guardians yesterday resolved to throw open their doors to the public press, during ditcuzsion.