The Sun. — London, England, 1850-04-17 00:00:00

~# 1 ) abolish the tax on light and air, the two greatessen lials to h ea l th.--(Cheers.) He impugned altogether . the Statement that th ese taxes were necessary for revenue Purposes, because there were now 4,500,0001. expended le the eetablishments of the country more than Mom establish as e ne: e Atssary f or t h e public service. He admitted those lbere were inconsistent who voted for the establishments and th en voted for the reduction of taxation; but he (1111.. Hume) vot e d aga i nst the establishments that he aught have a surplus to apply to the reduction of taxi- The Hon. Member denied, however, that this propo se d reduction would be all loss to the revenue, in as nauch as it wou ld confer a great boor. on ell the used in facking b e i ng in many instances as much as the value of the article itself. This was particularly the case with I Cheap h arnware. L et th e G overnment a b an d on its mi litary establishm en t s; ge t r id o f th e African Squadron, •which was worse than useless; pay off the apeitrraitean squad ron, and reduce the army in otnial%sntrY , and th ey would find themselves able not o take off these taxes, but the window duty, imposts Th e 1 ,of a like obnoxious character.—(Hear, h - ) light and . o e th r e:r , Hon. Baronet had alluded to his motion. hct Iteety did the matter really stand? The House .had atn loterl the principle of f ree - tra de, and the agricult u . teeree,hoard World, They been exposed to the competition of They called u p on th e H ouse t o ca r r y ou t tile Principle, and he had therefore moved for a return wn the subject. He might say en passant, on the subject ,of returns, that the great art in moving for them was to :bring facts before members who were too lazy to look for them theneselves—(Laaghter)—and to have facts, and Q d uads, shilli ngs, and pence, which could not be doubted was now r disp u. t ow cd. This return shed that free trade, as it et carried on, was fetter trade ; they had not 1 co fettered trade to free trade, and be hoped yet to bring the 'matter befor e the attention of the House. He entreated l)1011w -treble M em b ers not to listen to the request of the ight Hon. B aronet, but to take his advice.—(Laughter) co untry was b orne down by its large establishments sad I ves sufferi ng f rom excess of taxation, which atclounted to :seven or ei g h t m illi ons mere per annum t4 O was necessary. Let them then a4ree to motions * to •get rid of oim oxious taxes, and they would not only , that. b ut, at the same time, un these b ur d ensome establishments, MinistrylZte,elfroeertiitegthe reductions ,dad act tell . money they would speedily reduce their es- He sh ou l d vote in favour of the resolu- C ) n and in favour of the abolition of all those unneces • levy establiehmeats the maintenance of which might a'eats a difficulty in the way of ng out lieewhi e h the resolution affirmed carry Heer, hearthe.)princi lie' / , W &AT said that he should record his vote in ' t i t t o y u e: f h tehe motion with as much cordiality and ala had ever manifested in supporting any re reilutiou that had been put from the chair during his ex- iles, of the House. lie should support it, because hadh 1, leve t!, with the Right Hon. Gentleman who y ity o , ug ui l i_t, i forward, in a speech of such . remarkable abi " It was ono of the primary duties of Government Gtttibutsiteruct rend enlighten the .- people. The Right Hon. lo ge matt did not propose that all the taxes on know ,a,cga'Ltua.l.ti be abolished at one blow; he did not ad ei• `" Luc natnedieve abolition of those imposts the r_ ,_•ceu,,reett,nces which would cause such a loss to ß t ar e onet t i e l u n , Its had been prediet , sd' s by the Right 1141„`sanneellor of the Exchequer—a loss Hon. Baronet 0 ,, 4 Le said was, that there was a surplus in the h ~, ni a !r, and that the Chancellor could not do a better tha t IL's. wiser.thing than to give the public the benefit l ' e `Z. , sur t e NU, by remitting some of the taxes on news h'° is k , ' "' s uch, for instance, as the, stamp duty on to e rs and the advertisement duty. It was, of courster,m vitaten,derstood, that the Right Hon. Gentleman on vm uow_ if,dge". the ultimate abolition of all tho taxes nklo. go farth,' r tut th e measure under consideration did m t s_ lea ha u to p!edge the House to the immediate d r . i a 443. of variout items, which, in the aggregate, ~,u r tto Mere than 350,000L—(Hear.) The ge l e ed n t e i h i r e a i :l yeey of the attenapte which had been mad d upon a hr s 4l ' ) l l to reduce taxation had Produceof propert y the impression that if persons affect:l rty l e this country wished to obtain thattbe m e er' , and respect of the people, at the same time .t thing SubmitPtedthtehye their own possessions in security, the wises could possibly do would be at once to Ile did to a more direct system of taxation.—(Hear.) .o of t '° l Mean to advocate the immediate introduction a to wouldw Y new system of taxation, but he certainly o ! . 0 the length of saying that the system of 'com e t ulc h had been propounded in the Case the in• i ta , ,, -4 X hy the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for 14,-16'011h, appeared to him . to be the soundes: and the deeldt.ildicious that could he devised, and he was! most acin e , t , Ll Y of opinion that the moneyed clews in this t. alie n 'Y would, bysubmitting to au increased rate . o -4 tax • e 7 h t course which lees anon on property, aeopt t a . . slthei. e , at calculsted to exteed labour and to facilitate the pelie""coce the he people.—(Hear, hear.) The soundest hild Y that Legisleturo could adopt would be to ex- Astiel a i4 e b° ur as far as they could, and to cheapen as thj eet '3 Possible the means of subsistence, and these Ir on , 8 W °Lild be best attained by all no and by placing upon pro relieving the people I) ertv . i necessary imposts, tente'ilsrger prop3rtion of taxation than it was at e f.. repaidthe a ed called upon to endure. The Government, if the rhT ,not bring themselves to accept the motion of It t 'em i r,: 14°11. Gentleman in its complete shape, woul the ai n ., - ." 0 tvell to make some approximation towards . atatee-Illhiltion of the taxes upon knowledge. Forin : kW ' the 4d vertisement duty only yielded 156,0001. • ~ as ther ""Y sbenna of confessedly a balance in the untieqteo olonetin'',, not a tax so insignificant in am, ye r °r let cn tka ,io Princile, be at once remitted ? Soone be wspe;, el at ti l such taxes would have to be repealed— *--ano, utY, advertisement duty, paper duty, and for the rnh"ureY it would be wiser and more judicious 1 . tuldlc"adtleellor of the Exchequer to remit them seriatim, 41 ' An 4 urg r ees, than to dispose of them all at the same au •wee e f ut. '„ a he would most assuredly have to do on !Vl.° -r,",re.day. His difficulty would then be increased t gnaDll4—"',old. The tax on knowledge had been in n ,,, Ated tlePriately termed " the window-tax of t t h r e m d lei l4bt e sootier it was done away with the bete. The the ' Ate e : ic a uts of foreign countries, but more e especiallyterms of re this a us, were continually sPeahine tell4lad.eoitintrtyhe; America almost everyone could a fo r u r ai i i n n A um m ber of readers le to be found in ' ll idel e -4e u Might differ, and no doubt they d . id, t i n 'e ; 0 ' adop t ed to the best system of national education o h n. 'ens i n s4 , ll : l such a country se England; but all must . c salin e te e opinion that it was desirable that facilities of I t eopi e attu ction Should be placed within the reach of better 'thee tll.who would thus cultivate their own minds AYste e ,'Y would be enabled to dcr , under any sch olasticthan Are ~,e. whatsoever. The colonies were better o ff In iltalifa`x° Iturselves with respect to these matters. 'ltaa, i t , ' il l Nova Scotia, the circulation of newspapers ' thanth 63.Prroportion to the population, very much larger ti• f act l ' u ccion, a circumstance which was attributable d * a it: that there was no stamp duty. It ghoul te at theyrn ic mind that newspapers were no longer r Iv ere s e used to be in the time of Swift. rheY p re t , vatOn luxuries —they were now necessaries ; Abe fl at they were an important means of educating 'tre k People was not be questioned. Judging Lek ghat he had seen of the unstamped publication e s s ,v4ict'_l4,wer nt present in the course of issue—such weekly "pabr ere Journal, Eliza Cook's Journal, and the ;paged cations awnhtiicchipabtnereanthve name of Lloyd—he was ne s t . . ei ; , e to ,to se ` l . 11 °f the stainn-duiv."Hil e w resultsas bound frona i t n h ? i 0 s t t o i t e e l ‘ eoltt"ttlit that these publications were of a highly moral Alsni a t e ter, and that they reflected credit as well on the 14 08 ,Y of those who wrote for them as on the taste who Ner:fwlto patronisei them.—(Hear, hear.) Those h alto : of relying on the authority of Mr. Il&Culloe hese remember that that gentleman was decidedly •l oi , ab e to the advertisement duty. He (Mr. Bwart) was %a ai'lishingsit altogether, for he was sure that no more .e,hk:suhs would folic:4 from its abolition than those sal tn44 had resulted from the repeal of the duty upon 'That a es • When he first had the honour of a seat in ieet to ° use every almanac that was published was sub able Ve 4 Y. of no less than ls. 4d.; and a more des- Aka 4 composition than the almanac of those days was 'Val }. "cre to be found. It was full of silly riddles Nitilets'a•ological calculations as to the probable -Y. seal des tinies of the Ministers of the day. kl.„astine-6:8 almanacs had been "damned to ever mitssore% 'atas.` in the " Rape of the Lock," and It Asa were. equally notorious in our own century. 'lO aboli s h ? Lord A lth orp that the honour belonged ch at•; : a 4 l3 furturac : l l :: or hs t 3 duty on almanacs, which amountedmentia Th e - 't)(3 o/. a year. An immense improve t _ . ~... , sten i t , h ,these works was . immediately percep i 4 a been so progressive that he believed he A coattt,•l warranted in the assertion that there was not l ater : • 7il l the world in which such valuable and such NMI pawed 4ritilia2B were published as in England. He 4tEeCod that the effect of abolishing all other ,th e Upon that would be equally beneficial. That %s t in t c ple oft his country would be happier and more et presentht they would be oven better citizens than . eletoit, better subjects, and stauncher friends to the lightejetr property, if they were fully and fairly en eh th e end instructed, were questions in respect o I sind e of re c ould be no diversity of opinion in the taper duty,Prjudiced men. With regard to the news 4efitly • he considered that it was not only exceed esiettbriudiciotte in principle, but likewise highly in aceresle in operation, for local newspapers which had Sec t tstltllY circulation by means of the post were sub that tire' ,`' Just a s atio much as metropolitan journals whose 1 -1 was to very great extent carried on through tiuutitel sisygenthcaZ;(4:radrinhgear.) In conclusion, he had only toutltzt,alY connected with the the best r e es w ts hic o h f was IteopWLs.cd eminentl y e e st as in e te n klrt 'he should not hesitate to give it his cordial sup congenial to the character of its If_ (Hear. hear.) fro,Ar*,,AGLlox BY was sorry to be obliged to sever d vila ose 'lat party with whom he generally voted, an hi, 4 exertions to diminish taxation usually commanded • n e Mptti )a n tilY and c o - operation; but, being unable to the p rA : n u what good results would be obtained, under nieti on - s ot dra t of the country, from the I %lltl y of his Right Hon. Friend, he should be toiledreluc thlip..l° to give his vote against it. H e was sesel s ..' ak himself what practical advantage would --.144 'h 4 t° tho coentry from a division on this question? B° b lll d, like to see the abolition of all taxes on know lirseticati he was bound to ask himself whether it was under the present circumstances of the 1 011 0 4' and if not, whether any good result would the Iti o , r col going to a division on such a question. If a hould ° l l 3 lt !ion. Gentleman the Member for Manchester Would b.! in a minority, the effect on the public mind tou _,. very darns ins as far as the question he had tr ar ,,,:t at heart was cOncerned; but if, on the con tuld carry his motion, there could be no d ean t " h e t , ii 4 -v. .o l wo uld materially damage the G overnment. e o Would stre from the Treasury Bench—lio, no; he Mr, A ngth en it. ji. • QION•By b e t Could b e , —Well, that was a matter of opinion. 111 we,i te ' l oved that the Government, so far from the'to,,ttiki ~i,,,tii7e,(l. wool.; be benefited, he should have i u.uti oti 1 ~in l'e(;ortlinfr i , - •0f.' , . - .. i , , favniu: loas e i r to b j.usuguter)— would could not bring l ' e Va that it ha t e any such opera- THE SUN, LONDON, floe. When the proper occasion for abolishing these taxes hal arrived, and when the House was in a position to do so, he would have much pleasure in supporting any motion that might be brought forward with a view to their abolition, but he thought it was a dangerous precedent fir that House to pledge itself in one session to the expression of an abstract opinion with regard to what might be done in the next. He could easily imagine the possibility of its being demonstrated hereafter to the satisfaction of a majority of that House that there were other taxes the remission of which would be more bene ficial to the public at 'ergo than the repeal of the taxes in question. Of course, the converse of the proposition might alto be capable of demonstration, and he had no hesitation in asserting that, if ho had been put to his election to say whether he would repeal the brick duty or the taxes or knowledge, he should assuredly have given his vote in favour of the latter. On the other hand, if it had been put to him to say whether he would vote for the abolition of the window tax or for that of the taxes referred to in the motion of the Right. lion. Gentleman, he would not have hesitated to give his vote in favour of the remission of the window tax, because he believed that tax,was a most obnoxious one, end lee was certain that its repeal would be productive of greater re lief to the public than the repeal of any other impost whatsoever. Colonel THOMPSON observed that the mover and seconder of the motion expressed an opinion which was likely to command very general sympathy in that House when they stated that all taxes on knowledge ought to be repealed as soon as ever the Chancellor of Exchequer found it possible to do so. The sentiment was no doubt a very proper one, but when he thought of the course which certain Hon. Members who were supporting the present resolution had adopted with re spect to the Stamp Duties Bill last night, he could not help thinking of the homely and childish proverb which said that a man could not at his cake and have it too. —(Hear, hear.) The relief which they had given to rich men the night previous would render it no easy matter to procure any relief for the poor to-night. He con. fessed that he felt a little sore on the transaction of last night, and must be excused if, in now voting for the mo tion of the Right Hon. Member for Manchester, he gave utterance to an expectation that he would not be looked on as doing more than expressing a hope that the Chan cellor of the Exchequer would repeal the taxes knowledge as soon as he found it practicable to do so.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Perhaps he had been educated in a contracted school, but he could not remove from his mind the impression that little was to be gained by attacking a Chancellor of the Exchequer on any point. He was willing to admit that the present Chancellor of the Exchequer deserved well of thecountry. and had taken more steps in the right direction with re spect to taxation than any one else who had preceded him in his office of late years. It was to be hoped that, not withstanding the untoward occurrence of the preceding evening, he would persevere in the right course, and ulti mately attain that influence and that position in the country to which he was clearly entitled. It was greatly to be regretted that the question of the reduction of taxaeion should be hampered, as it had unfortunatsly been so frequently of late, by being connected with the restoration of the slave trade. For his part, he was unable to discern any legitimate connexion between them. The African scpiedron was no nuisance to him. He met it nowhere. It did not disturb his daily thoughts nor his nocturnal visions. Hs cheerfully paid his share in the expenses it occasioned, and would have no objection to pay still more if the laudable object for which it had been established could be realised.—(Hear, hear.) He could wish that Hon. Members at his own side of the Rouse had a little mo re worldly prudence. There could be no doubt that more than three additional Members would have voted for the abolition of the window-tax the other evening had not the question been bound up so illegitimately and irrationally with the question of the African squadron. It was, indeed, greatly to be deplored that some of his Hon. Friends had not a little more w orldly isdow. There was no bait in the shape of a reduction of 101. or 20/, (to be effected at the expense of the Chancellor of the Exchequer) that could be thrown over to them from the other side of the House, that they would not oily nibble at, but swallow with the greatest possible avidity.—(Laughter.) Mr. ROEBUCK did not think that the Hon. and Gallant Member who had just resumed his seat had put too transaction of the previous evening in quite a fair light. The object of those who had voted in the majo rity was the laudable and reasonable one of attempting to raise a revenue in the least mischievous farm in which a most mischievous revenue could be raised. They had endeavoured to make the pressure of a tax, to the prin ciple of which they strongly objectse, as eqaable and tolerable as possible, by spreading it over as large a sur face as possible, and making many contribute in a small sum, rather than a few in a very large amount. He had heard the song sung by the Chancellor cf the Ex chequer, and a very dismal and melancholy song it was. —(Laughter.) It was the old story about a falling ex chequer. He had seen many successive Chancellors on the Treasury bench, but he had never known one of them of whom it might nut with perfect truth be said that, when something that was not quite customary was proposed to him with respect to taxation, his gorge rose as though you had politely asked him to devote to de struction the whole fabric of society. To propose any alteration, however trivial, in the mode of taxation, was, in the estimation of a Chancellor of the Exchequer, tan tamount to proposing an alteration in the position of the stars —(Laughter.) As for the instruction of the human mind, that was a mere secondary consideration. He at once met you by stating that there would be a loss of 50,000/. to the Exchequer, and there was an end of the matter. Talk to him about the powers of produc . tion being augmented, or about the Certainty Of intro ducing something new which should make ,the country what it never had been before in point of happinness and prosperity, he would reply, " My good sir, it is out of the question. It would occasion a lose to the Exchequer of 50,000/."—(Laughter.) If you were to represent to bim that that which constituted the Exchequer was the power of labour, which poured its earnings into it, be would still be as inexorable as ever. Strong in the con viction that he had Cocker at his back, he would enter into a calcula'ion to show you that two and two made four, which, by the way, was not sound political arithmetic for a Chancellor of the Exchequer.— (Hear, hear.) Such a question es that at present under consideration was not a matter for the decision of a Chancellor of the Exche quer. It was a matter which ought to be decided by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government. What higher duty cculd possibly engage the attention of the Govern ment than the education of the people? The people, educated and enlightened, were omnipotent fur every great achievement; ignorant and benighted, they earned about them the elements of mischief. Of what avail were fiscal considerations, when there was under our feet a volcano, which might break forth at any moment, and devote the country to destruction? How was it possible to conduct the people in a beneficent course otherwise than by instructing them? And how were they to be instructed unless by tsose powers of mechanism which the art of printing had placed in the hands of their governors ? He confessed ho was sickened and dis gusted with the cant cf " humanity" which prevailed in the present age. When he appealed to those on whose lips this cant was found most frequently, they evinced their readiness to let him have their charity. Now charity, in his acceptation of the word, meant insult. — (Hear, hear.) Give the people the means of instruction, and they would not ask for charity. Let them acquire knowledge, and they would not need assistance to enable them to obtain the means of subsistence.—(Hear, heir.) These were truths evoked by the experience of mankind in these latter ages. We did not know it three centu ries ago, but we knew it now. We knew what instruc tion was—we knew how to communicate it to the people, and we knew that a Liberal Administration, which had not put its entire faith in the mere holding on of place, but which had its purpose and object in raising, and not depressing, the people,upon whose enthusiasm it traded, would have been the first to strike down those fiscal exactions upon the instruction of the people. The adminiNt'ation of the Noble Lord had not been of that kind. He had hung on by place, and he had not sought to raise the social position of the people by wholesome instruction. He had, no doubt, wished to get over the difficulties of his position, but he had not; he had not sought to raise the condition of the people whom he had the misfortune to govern. It was upon this ground that he quarrelled with the Noble Lord.— (Hear, hear.) He did not care for the opinion of Honourable Gentlemen at his (Mr. Roebuck's) side of the House.(Laughter.) He assured them that they were centuries behind the times, and that the idea of resuscitating Protection was an idle and de lusive hope. If they attempted it they would be put down and crushed. The Noble Lord need not, however, apprehend any attempts from that side of the House. There was nothing approaching to opposition to be feared, but there was a tide setting in out of doors, which, if the Noble Lord could but understand and profit by, would make him omnipotent with the people.— (Hear, hear.) But he bad a narrow and contracted mind.—(Hear, hear.) There was, however, a boldness about the Noble Lord which he admired, and a courage which he liked. The Noble Lord was placed in a posi tion which no other man had ever been fortunate enough to occupy, and if he would but take the tide at its flew, he might make much of it; but if he did not, the tide would swallow him, and he would be as nothing in the vast multitude of the waters which surrounded him. —(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Roebuck) believed that no heater proposition could have been brought forward than that which the Right Hon. Gentleman had introduced. —(Hear, hear.) And why did he say so? Because he knew that the thousands and millions of the people of this country who were now rising up and gasp ing for education would have their attention directed to other subjects if they did not get it. If the people were not educated we should hare a red republic, as they had at the other side of the water, where the people were not properly educated, and where they only knew how to combine for mischievous pur poses. That spirit of C ommun i sm w hi c h was so preva lent in France was also to be found in England, and it would to a certainty p u t d own t h e existing state of things if the people were not taught how to direct their powers. There were 30,000,000 of persons at the other side of the water quite as good as ourselves; but was there ever known such a rope of sand as that which France now presented, because the people were not pro perly instructed? He contended that the affairs of this country were conducted by a very sma ll port i on of i ts people. The multitudes, however, wer e r i s i ng up , and i t was impossible any longer to prevent them from having power. He entreated the Government, therefore, to diffuse freely and without fiscal restraint the benefit of education to those vast multitudes who were entitled to possess, and who inevitably would sooner or later possess, those powers which they had not previously enj o y e d. He charged them, therefore , in God's name to give in struction to the vast multitudes of the people who had not hitherto had power, but who were now destined to enjoy it. Let not the narrow view_ of the Chancellor of the 1 7 ,V:b.. narr b- r.-:^d t^ Into•fere in a matter of so ;roar iii3iient. He , _-2pealt.:l to tha .1.40b1c; Lord at the head of the Government to look to the condition of France, Germany, and Italy,--(Rears hear.) And why were they in such a state? The reason was that the people were investA with political power beeore they had received political instruction. It was idle to tell him that the people of England were possessors of power. It was no such thing, for a very small portion of them possessed power. There were Hon. Gentlemen opposite who had represented large constituencies (he did not see any at his side of the [louse who enjoyed that privilege), and he appealed t) them to state whether there were not among them many who held Communist doctrines. — (Hear, hear.) He appealed to the Noble Lord who stood between the country and this great t evolution, for it was idle to attempt concealment of the fact—that the people were becoming excited, and that inevitably they would have political power—to be wise in time, and grant concessions where concessions were required.— (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He had always been a zealous supporter of a large increase of the franchise, and he had been so with his eyes open, because he cherished the hope that the Government would not op pose the education of the people. If they were to tell him that an uneducated, excited, and ignorant multitude were to have the power of regulating this great empire, he would say that they must have it; but he addressed himself to those who had in their hands the mighty in terests of this expanded empire, and he asked them:to raise themse'ves above the petty conceptions of a mere Ministry clinging to power, to expand and exalt their minds, and to say to those who directed public opinion in this country--" We are about to raise the people to exercise and appreciate the great business of empire; the tide of time will raise them up to that position; we cannot prevent the consummation, but we are about to instruct the millions of our countrymen to understand their own interest, and understanding it, to minister to the interests of mankind."—(Cheers.) Let this be the language of the Government, and let no narrow views interfere a ith the great proposition of the Right Lion. Gentleman (Mr. K. Gibson). —(Cheery.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Mr. Speaker, those Mem bers who were not in the House at the time when my Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer spoke can hardly Lave any correct notion of the spy ech which he has made from the representations which have been made of it by the Honourable Gentleman the Mem ber for Sheffield. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman asks us to raise ourselves above petty fiscal considera tions, and to look at the subject with the importance which it demands. But I own I think that the view which my Right Hon. Friend took of this case was a most important one, and the one upon which the decision of the House ought to depend. My Right Hon. Friend alluded to the propositions which had been male in this House after the financial statement of the year had been delivered, and having alluded to the taxes which he proposed to abolish or reduce, he stated that, after the payment of 250,000/., he did not think there would be a margin of more than 400,0001. on the whole of the esti mates for the finacc:al year. Having done this, my Right Honourable Friend alluded to the propositions which had been made to this House for the reduction of taxes. lie alluded to the motion very lately made, and a cry nearly carried for the reduction of the window tax, amounting to 1,800,000/. He alluded to the pro position now made to reduce 1,300,000/. He alluded to the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose, which stands on the votes of this evening, for the reduction of duties upon agricultural produce anti manufactures to the amount of 1,500,0001., amounting altogether to no less a sum than 4,600,000/.—(lleir, hear.) And my Right Hon. Friend said that if the [louse, without considering the scope and general ten dency of these propositions, would take them piecemeal, at a period when there was only a surplus of 400,0001. on the financial year, we would fled ourselves, after having get out of a financial difficulty, tigain plunged into embarrassments, and that we would give up a posi• tion of safety, security, and honour, for one that was unsafe, ins, cal e, and injurious to the credit of this great country.—(Loud cheers.) Sir, I may confidently ask the HOll5O whether this was a petty view to take of the interests of the country?—(Hear, hear.) I think not. And when the Hoe. and Learned Gentleman tells of re volutions, and alludes to the condition of neighbouring countries, I know no cause which has been more fertile in revolutiunt than the mismanagement of finances; a policy which has reduced the revenue of those sta•es far below their expenditure, and brought in its wake na tional bankruptcy and confusion.—(Cheers.) Why, if this be the case with regard to other countries, I think the warning of my Right Honourable Friend was not thrown away, and that he took no trifling fiscal view of the case, but a comprehensive and intelligent one, when he asked the House to consider these matters as a, whole; and, whether dealing with the stamp duty, the window duty, and the taxes upon paper and adver tisements, to consider, not the detects of the tax, but how its abolition might affect the general interests of the country, and to lose sight of the defect in the danger to which the credit and best interests of the country might be exposed.—(Hear, hear.) I agree with my Right Honourable Friend in the view that he has taken. But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite says that I hare a contracted mind.—(Laughter.) Well, so it is, and so I suppose it must be.—(Renewed laughter.) I regret that do not rise to the height of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's magnificent conceptions.—(Laugh ter.) I trust, however, lam not an enemy to the pro gress of knowledge, and that I am not opposed to the remission of those dutii s when it can be effected. At the same time, I am bound to see that the credit of the country is not shaken, and I think it behoves the Go vernment to place its financial position clearly before the House. My Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, and said truly, that different views had been taken of this subject by different Members. The lion. Gentleman the Member for Montrose has ex pressed his opinion that great reductions might be made in the naval and military estimates, but a large majority of the House has voted these estimates, and as I think that it would be extremely dan gerous, regard being had to the present state of Europe, to leave this country in a defence less position, I agreed with the view which the majority of the House took in voting those estimates. Then, again, Hun. Gentlemen opposite say, there is no great mischief if there be some deficiency in income, be cause wo may regain what we have lost by the imposi tion of those taxes which formerly contributed consider able portion of revenue; bur, Sir, I think the majority of the House would reject that policy as a return to a vicious system which has been lately abandoned.—(Hear hear.) Tim result, therefore, would be, that no parties would agree in these reductions, and it would be impos sible to reconcile Hon. Gentlemen to any description of taxation that would make the revenue equal to the ex penditure, or reduce the expenditure in harmony with the revenue.—(Hear, hear.) The consequence would be, that the House would find itself in a position of finan cial difficulty discreditable to the country, and more especially so as there is, in reality, no difficulty before it. With regard to the remission of the taxes on knowledge, I am not disposed to say much. I admit with the Hon. Member for Edinburgh who seconded this mo tion, that when deputations come to me to express their opinions, my lips are, as he said , congealed.—(Leaughter —and that I do not express the agreement I may enter tain to the objections taken to certain imposts; for it really is the case, that there is har dl y a de p utation, whether it be to urge the remission of duties on tea, soap, advertisements, and windows, which has not demonstrated that that particular tax is in jurious to the country. I cannot well dispute these statements; but on the other hand, if I were to say they were right in wishing to see those duties abolished, or to make any pledge upon the subject, they would im mediately charge me with a breach of faith in not having come down to this House and joined my Right Hon. Friend.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not think the Governments with which I have been connected have shown indiffer ence to the evils which have been inflicted by those taxes. I find that, in the year 1833, Lord Althorp re duced the duty on advertisements from 3s. 6d. to Is. 6d., thus losing a sum which he thought would amount to 70,0001. per annum. Lord Monteagle also, when Chan cellor of the Exchequer, reduced the charge for news paper stamps amounting to 309,000/. per annum, and also reduced the duty upon the finer descriptions of paper, amounting to 394,0001.—(Hear, hear.) You have thus about 775,0001. which has been remitted by the Govern ments with which I have been connected from the very articles upon which the Right Hon. Gentleman wishes for further reductions. This shows that we have not been indifferent to the evils caused by these taxes, and that as far as these taxes are concerned, supposing that among all the taxes there were none more objectionable, we should be ready to reduce or abolish them if their:own merits were only concerned. At the same time, I think the benefit to be derived from these reductions has been greatly exaggerated.—(Hear, hear.) Indeed I think the phrase " taxes upon knowledge" is an exaggeration. —(Hear, hear.) We heard the Hon. Gentleman say, and say truly, that a great part of the evil complained of bythe deputation bore upon the coarser kinds of paper used in packing parcels, such as ironmongery; bat surely it cannot be contended that the duty upon paper used for such purposes amounted to a tax upon kno (Laughter.) Then, with regard to newspapers, it is, I admit, desirable that the people should have political in formation ; at the same time I think much (.f the matter contained in the newspapers can hardly be dignified by the name of knowledge. Again, my Right Hon. Friend showed the mischief resulting from un stamped publications, and read various articles from un stamped papers which were extremely like the articles I hare found in stamped papers. There was, for in stance, the character of Lord Grey, which I should have considered written by Jacob Omnium and other writers in the daily press. With regard to the other news papers for which sd. is charged, ld. of which only is for stamp duty, the only reason that they are charged so highly is that they are put to great expense in getting in formation. One gentleman connected with a morning newspaper told me that the cost of expressing the French correspondence for that journal amounted to 600/. a year. It is, therefore, the desire of the public to get early in formation that makes the price of the newspapers high, and not the penny stamp. I must decline entering into any pledge that these are taxes that are to be abolished above every other tax. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose has advocated the reduction of the duties on windows and soap, and has stated that sanitary measures are useless unless those imposts be abolished. I admit that those duties interfere very much with the health, enjoyment, and means of clean liness of the people at large. Those are very strong objections, and equally strong as those urged against the taxes on knowledge. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Sheffield says, we have con tracted minds, that we shall fall into danger, and has reminded us that the case of France is before us, to show us the perils that we are likely to encounter. Sir, the present condition of Franco is not owing to the high price of newspapers, or to the want of instruction among the people. I understand that in Paris you can get for a halfpenny a newspaper fall of ingenious epigrams, clever writing, and all the intelligence of the day. Schoolmasters are also spread over France, but the tieNspFtp.?r,.. ciAcavour to n'iLate govc'rl'r'cr't im• possible; lii , olumi;t6ks ulticavuur w woke le ligion odious.—(Hear, hear.) Then Sir, I say, if you have cheap newspapers which endeavour tO =lie go- vernment impossible, and if you have schoolmasters `whose object is to make religion odious, I can morn easily explain the stets of France than wish for an icuitaticn of in—(llear, hear.) e I do not believe, with the Hon. and Lee-ned Gentleman, that the people of this country are only lately admitted to political power. They are a people long accustomed to political discussion, and long accustomed to take part in the poli tical events of their country. The hearts of the men of England have ever throbbed with the victories of Eng land, they have been proud of the loyalty of the throne of England, and they are men who are proud of the re ligion of their country.—(blear.) They entertain those feelings. They have watebel with anxiety every turn in the events of their country, and while they have fol lowed some Ministers and chiefs with admiration and enthusiasm, they have been as ready to condemn others for incompetency and unfitness.—(Hear, hear.) The lion. and Learned Gentleman says we care for nothing but holding on fir place. But a few days ago I was re proached for the part I took in opposing a motion for the withdrawal of the African squadron, and I am re proached for declaring myself determined not to retain office unless my opinions were assented to by a majority of the House on that occasion. Sir, I am ready to submit to either imputation, as I am not conscious of being guilty in either respect.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") So long as we can maintain the principles upon which wo think the greatness of England has been founded—so long as we can maintain this country in the possession of those great benefits which she has the happiness to enjoy—so long as we can keep her in the pursuit of that path which has been marked out by Providence for her course—so long will it be a matter of pride to at to be the foremost advisers of our Sovereign. —(Hear, hear.) If it please the House to take a course which we think dangerous or discreditable to the coun try, then our names must be severed from the possession of power; and we can only lament that the country has taken a coarse which we will think unfortunate.—(Loud cheers from the Minister:al benches.) Sir, I must ask the House to reject the motion; I do so with all respect to the Right Hon. Gentleman ; I do so, agreeing in many of the statements which he has made with respect to the objections to be urged against those taxes; but I say this is not tho occasion, nor the time, when the House of Commons esti lightly condemn taxes necessary fir the support of your public obligations, and for the support of those establishments which you deem essential for the national defence. If that be the case, then I ask the House to concur with me in the rejection of this motion, and to show the country that you are determined to main tain the credit, and be worthy of the people whom you lead.—(Cheers.) Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, before we divide, I wish to take the opportunity of expressing in a very few words the reasons why I shall vote in support of the motion. I understand that the question before the House is, whether we shall agree to the first resolution of the Right Honourable the Member for Manchester. I be lieve that resolution recommends that such financial ar rangements ought to be made as will enable us to repeal the excise duty on paper. That is the question upon which the division is to be taken.--(llear, hear.) In dealing with this question, I shall . not indulge in thoie genera! and emphatic views which Characterised the speech of the Honourable and Learned Member for She and also that of the Noble Lord the First Mi nister. They have both brought us to a e Red Republic, and there we will leave them—(Loud Laughter) —nor, Sir, is it at all necessary for me, in the present instance (although I think it a subject well worth the considera• tion and deep attention of the House) to enter into the cases in which within a very few years vast reduc tions atiounting to nearly 9,000,0001.—0 f taxation— pressing principally on trade and commerce. After having repealed those laws, the repeal of which we were told would enable the enterprise and industry of England to beat the world, we still find that, year after year, I may say day atter day, and hour after hour, the burden of taxation has become mere grievous and op pressive.—(Hear, hear.) Nor shall I remind the House, and especially my Friends, that if we adopt any mea sures for the reduction of taxation, which, under such circumstances the community and our constituent ; who were lately complaining of those burdens, might be in duced to agree to, and which, whatever might be the consequences, would afford them relief, we could only make up the deficiency in the revenue by having re course to import duties. I say, I shall not dwell upon that point, although it might be a topic not distasteful to us, for really all these matters have been placed before us in a more fervid manner by the Noble Lord, and by the Right Hon, the Member for Manchester, than they could be from the somewhat dry details before us. We arc now called upon by our vote virtually to repeal an excise duty to the amount of 750,000/. I cannot view this question totally unconnected with this year's finan cial exposition of the Government, to which the Noble Lord has himself reesred. I was not, from acciden• tal circumstances, present when that statement was made, but it is an immortal subject. It is still alive. Last night, oven, its details were under consideration, and the question proposed to-night— the step which we may prudently take—is entirely cone neeted with that financial statement of the Government. Now, I hold, as a general rule, that there are two consi derations which ought to influence a financial minister in dealing with a heavy tax and a surplus. I think the first duty that should occur to him should he to re lieve any suffering interest in the country.—(Hear.) And I think that if the country be in that happy state that there is no interest of importance in great distress and suffering, his next duty should be to relieve all in terests by devoting the surplus to the reduction of the public debts, that is, by reducing the general taxation of the country.—(Hear.) These are the two - considerations which should guide a minister of finance in dealing with the surplus revenue. These are the two conside rations which should influence public men when it was officially announced that we had a surplus, and when, in connexion with that announcement, it was declared by the Financial Minister himself that there was an interest in the country—and the most important interest—not only suffering, but greatly suffering, and that its suffering was not only recognised by those who more immediately represented it, but by the Government itself, and by the Representatives of this House ge nerally. But was any proposition brought forward to devote that surplus to the relief of that suffering in- terest? What was the conduct of the Government? They opposed that proposition, notwithstanding their acknowledgment that that important interest was greatly suffering. Under all the circumstances of the case, they thought they felt justified in resisting the application of the surplus revenue of the country to the relief of that interest. Sir, I felt, in the object I then attempted to effect, that I had acted in a manner which brought to me and those who supported me no mortification.—(Cheers from the Protectionist benches.) And what was the conduct of Government after that?. Were they influe °need by that which I conceived to bo the second consi deration which should influence a minister dealing with a surplus? Did the Government devote that surplus to the reduction of the public debt, and consequently to the reduction of the burdens that pressed on all classes? They did not. They came forward and made a propo sition which I think I am justified in saying was most unsatisfactory to the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.) They proposed a repeal of the excise duty on bricks—a proposition against which, if I had been here at the time, I shoUld have entered my protest, and which I think I can say with truth was accepted by those for whose benefit it was intended with utter deri sion.—(Hear.) By that means the Government reduced their announced surplus of 1,590,0001. to 500,000/. ,The second measure which they announced was also a mea sure of relief to the same interest. Upon that measure I need not dilate, because its principal character and peculiar merits are most familiar to all present, and the House still resounds with the cheers which last night hailed the defeat of Ministers on that measure. At this moment the Government are in possession of an unap propriated surplus of 1,000,000/. What does the first resolution of the Right Hon. Member for Manchester ask them to do with that surplus? Only to appropriate a portion of that surplus to the repeal of the Excise d u ty on paper. Before I give any opinion upon that particular proposition, there is one observation which I would make, with great respect, to my Hon. Friends around me. It is very true that a proposition to repeal the excise duty on paper, and also the proposition made the other night to repeal the window-duty, are not pro positions to repeal taxes with which those whom we represent on this side of the House are immediately concerned ; but I would impress upon my Hon. Friends that there is nothing more dangerous—there is no thing more to bo deprecated—than to make in this House the offer to relieve the people from taxation always a que scion between town and country.--(gear.)l have often witnessed the art that has been employed to convey a most unjust impression to the public that the only idea we, on this side of the House, have with regard to relief from taxation was to relieve the class with which we stand immediately connected from that burden, not taking any thought for those who are not connected with us. The question of relief from taxation should be always a general and notional question.—():.p ear , hear.) And if at any time, at this side of the H ouse, so f ar as I am individually concerned any proposal for the relief of taxation has been brought forward ostensibly for the purpose of relieving o ne class only, it was because that class was universally confessed to be, not only the most suffering class, but th e only suffering class.—(Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer to h b a e vi i n n t in the. management of this surplus, declined by those considerations which ought to direct his con duct, and as he has at his command a surplus exceeding that required by the proposition before us, I am to consider whether, on the whole, it is most for the advantage of the country that the excise duty on paper should be repealed, or that the Chancellor of the Exche quer should have in his possession a sum for the discreet exercise of which I have no security what ever; for it should be remembered that, notwithstanding the events of last n ight, the Chancellor of the Ex chequer did not come forw ard at half past four o'clock to-day and frankly tell us what he intended to do with this surplus. He did not tell us whether he meant to proceed with his measure respecting the stamp duties or not. He has left us in complete obscurity on that sub ject.—(Hear, hear.) What, then, is the propo sition -of the Right Honourable the Member for Man chester? Can there be in this House upon the abstract merits of that question two opinions? Is it possible that any person on the abstract merits of that q ues ti on can have an opinion different from that of the Rio t Hon. Gentleman? You may have two opinions as to the effect of an advertisement duty. There may be also two opinions as to the effect of the stamp duties on news papers; and, as I have not arrived at those resolutions, I decline now to express my opinion with report to those duties, but that there are no evils arieing- from duties abstractedly greater than the excise duty on paper, whether considered materially or morally, i s a position which I think no one will contest.—(blear.) I shall not enlarge on those interests in detail on which the Right Hon. Gentleman dwelt, and with which many of u are f.t<miliar, hut shell merely remind the house 0 - Mt tax-ea upon lieuotleage ate sneered at ee ieutastec ey the First Minister, at a time when Chambers had to give up a publication haying a circulation of 80,000 a week—a • WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 17, MO. publication of the most instrnetive and rational nature, and the most highly conducive to good government that ever appeared, because he was bast out of the market by a publication in Holywel!- - oreet, which exceeded his in circulation, and which was dedicated to the most inde cent and blasphemous purposes.—(Llear, hear.) Since the Chancellor of the Exchequer has declined relieving that interest whose sufferings entitle them to relief, and as he has not adopted the alternative of reducing, on a general scale, the great taxation of the country. can we do bitter than assent to the first resolution of the Hon. Member for Manchester? In my opinion it is a prudent, a politic, and a beneficial motion, and ought to be as sented to. Are we to be prevented from assenting to a resolution so justified by circumstances, so practical in its character and beneficial as it must be in its results by the ensanguined phantoms of a eevolu tionary republic conjured up before us, and the pale bible catastrophe indicated in Delphic sentences?— , (Hear, hear.) We should not fear any misfortunes of that kind. The very argument of the Noble Lord, that the people of England is a population educated in politi cal knowledge and public liberty—an observation most just and true—is the best security at all times for the conduct of the people,—(Hear, hear.) After all that we have seen of this somewhat eventful session, especially as regards finance—after all we have seen respecting the African squadron, to which, from motives of delicacy I intend not to allude, and which, from the uneasiness ex pressed on that side of the House whenever the subject is referred to, has thrown a shade of darksome tint over the Liberal benches—after all we witnessed last night, and all we may witness in future, I trust the House will not be frightened from taking that course which is jug nfied by circumstances—a course which is consistent with the state of the Exch. - quer, and in accordance with .public opinioe. Lot the House support, as I shall pre sume to do in the present instance, the first resolution of the Right Hon Member for Manchester.—(Cheers.) The House then divided on the first resolution— For the first resolution ... 89 Against it ... ... 190 Majority against the first resolution --101 The second and third resolutions were then negatived. On the f,urth, viz., that as to the repeal of the en stoma duty on foreign booke, Mr. ROEBUCK wished to know what objection the Government could have to the repeal of a duty which, whilst it prevented the poor man from enjoying the benefits of reeding a work imported from France, Ger many, or America, yielded bat a very slight addition to the revenue of the country. After a few words from Mr. HUME condemnatory of this duty, The 4th resolution, like the 2d and 3d, was negativech INDUSTRIAL INVESTMENTS. Mr. SLANEY then rose to move for a Select Com mittee to consider and suggest weans of removing ob stacks and giving facilities to safe investments fur the savings of the middle and working classes, and for affording them the means of forming societies to insure themselves against coming evils frequently recurring. The richer the person and the larger the invest ment the less did it eost in proportion. Now, taking a man possessed of 5,004. as representing the richer class, he might invest that Sum in land at a cost of only 21. los. per cent., or 1251. A man possessed of only 5001. might represent the middle class, but the in vestment of that sum in land would cost him 10/. per cent., or 501.; whilst a man possessed of only 501. could not invest it fir less than 20 per cent., or 101. That gave the humbler classes a stror:g claim to relief being afforded to them in some other mode cf investment. It might be said they could invest in the public funds; but they might invest when the funds were high, and be obliged to sell out when the funds were low, and thereby lose a part cf their capital. There was already an example for what he proposed. The other day a large leegiagehouso for the humbler classes had been established in teia metropolis, in shares, yielding profit, and he believed that the Noble Lord at, she head r of the Government and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as well as the Noble Lord lately at the head of the Woods and Forests, were partners in it. A char ter had been granted to it, and it was being carried on by joint capital. But the local improvements which he proposed could not at present be undertaken without a separate Act of Parliament in each case. He asked, then, only that the same principle should be applied in this case as was applied for the landed gentry a short time since for the enclosure of commons, at a compara tively small expense. He did not ask the Government to give anything, but to afford to the humbler classes the means of a safe investmeet for their small savings. If the Government thought his motion was too extensive, ant refused it, he trusted they would consider the sub ject, for he felt confident that, for the encouragement of the middle and humbler classes, and attaching them to this country, nothing was of more consequence than to give them every facility fur the safe investment of what they had obtained by their labour and diligence. Mr. LABOUCHERE had great pleasure in stating he did not feel it necessary to oppose the motion of his Hon. Friend. No one could doubt that the object of his Ilan. Friend was of the utmost importance, and he thought it probable that the Committee might obtain va luable information on various topics connected with it; at the same time some cf those topics were of great dif ficulty. He agreed with his Hon. Friend that it was of groat consequence for industrious persons among the humbler classes to have greater facilities than they now possessed of investing their savings in an easy and safe manner, and ho should be glad by every means in his power to remove the obstacles to carryiug out that ob ject. The inquiry, however, would involve serious questions connected with the law of partnership, upon which point be would refer to the evidence given by many of the most eminent men in the mercantile world before the Committee of 1837. But he would suggest to his Hon. Friend the propriety of altering the terms of his motion, as the latter part of it was not very clear. The first part of it was for a Select Committee to consider and suggest means of removing obstacles and giving facilities to safe investments for the savings of the mid dle and working classes, and so f.r was clear enough; but the latter part of it, " and for affording them the means of forming societies to insure themselves against coming evils frequently recurring," was obscure. The Hon. Member had better omit the words. Mr. P. HOWARD hoped the Committee would direct its attention to the removal of the difficulties with which building societies had to contend. Mr. SLANEY said he might defend the phraseology of his motion by high authority—" Coming events cast their shadows before;" but nevertheless he would omit the passage which bad been objected to. The tnotion, as amended, was agreed to. LEGAL APPOINTMENTS IN INDIA. Mr. SAI)LEIR rose to move for " a return of all per sons in India receiving salaries, pensions, pay, profits, fees, emoluments, allowances, or grants of public money, by virtue of any direct or indirect nomination, recom mendation, or appointment by the President of the Board of Control over the Affairs tit India alone, or by virtue of any arrangement with the Board of Directors of the East India Company, and th© dates of each such nomination, recommendation; or appointment respectively, from the Ist of January, 1832, to the Ist day of March, 1850, excepting the judges of the su perior courts of law in India; stating the t )tal amount receivel by each individual in each year, and distin guishing the sources from which the payments are made." His object in moving for this return was to show that in the appointments to judgeships in Win members of the Irish bar were unfairly passed over. Since 1 825 , no member eof the Irish bar had been made an Indian judge. Indeed, be might say that during the last twenty five years the Indian bench had been filled up three times from the English bar exclusively, and by barristers, too, who could not boast of great practice or long standing. It was true that during the period stated an Indian judgeship was offered to Mr. Richards, now Baron Ri uha-ds, the judge who presided over the Encumbered Estates Commission. Mr. Richards, however, had then been twenty-six years at the bar, was leading counsel in the Rolls' Court, and was in the direct road to a seat on the Irish bench; and, under these circumstances, ho re fused to go to India. The Right Hon. Gentleman had failed to tulfil his pledge of last year, that whenever a va ca ncy occurred on the Indian bench the claims of the Irish bar would be fairly considered. If information were furnished as to the administration of patronage by the Right Hon. Gentleman in other departments, the same partiality, as regards England and Scotland, would be demonstrated. Sir J. 110BHOUSE observed, that if he did not give so satisfactory .an answer as he could wish it would be because the _return had reference to all pa tronage, with the special exception of judicial patronage, to which alone the speech of the Hon. Gentleman re lated. With every inclination in the world, it was im possible to give the information sought in the return. The pledge of last session was, that when a vacancy took place in India the claims of the Irish bar would be fai,ly considered; and a week had not passed when a communication was made to Lord Clarendon, asking him whether there was any gentleman he could recom mend. He (Sir J. Hobhouse) had recommended two judges for Penang. When the Recordership of Penang again fell vacant he again wrote to the Irish authorities, , and, in consequence, a member of the Irish bar came to London, but that gentleman discovered that it was a penal settlement—not because ho was himself to be sent there for punishment—(A. laugh)—and he refused to accept of the Indian appointment, worth something like 4,0001. a year, and certainly no disgrace attached. He then wrote again to the Irish Government, and the re sult was that a member of the Irish bar was at this mo ment Recorder of Penang. He had had the satisfaction of offering, he thought five times, places on the Indian bench to Irish barristers, and he had also bad the satis faction of being refused on 'every occasion. Indeed, he could assure the Hon. Gentleman that he laboured under a great misconception if he thought that they forgot the Irish bate It was impossible to forget them; they would not allow it.—(A laugh.) He had no lam e tion of doing so, but if he had it was out of his power to blot out from the memory of the moment all they did and all they suffered.—(A. laugh.) At any rate. during his time at the Indian board, whether long or short, pledge to the Hon. Gentleman, aned, o wheneverul d repeat an n his opportunity occurred, would fulfil it hw most honestly.—(Hear, bear.) Mr. KEOGH said the question before the House was not as to the importunities of the Irish bar, with respect to which the Right Honourable Gentleman bad been kind enough to raise a smile, but simply whether a statute basing teen passed prior to the Act of Union, which entitled the members of the Irish bar to a share of the Indian patronage, they had enjoyed that share ; and he took leave to think that the Right Hon. Gentleman had most distinctly evaded that question. C rteinly during the last quarter of a century not one Irish barrister had held a judicial appointment in India with a salary of 8,0001. a-year. The fact undoubtedly was, that since the establishment of the Br tish empire in India, and since the formation of the Supreme Courts in the three presidencies, not more than three members or the Irish bar had filled judicial appointments there, and those three had been appointed between the years 1800 and 1825. He saw nothing ex traordinary in the ;terms of the motion, and thought they might be easily complied with if the Right Hon Gentleman chose. Mr. ANSTEY said that his Hon- Friend the Member for Carlow had somewhat mistaken the nature of the case which he had submitted to the House, in so far at learnt that he not seem to be aware that the blame rested rather with the East India Company than with the Board of Control. Ho hoped thekasiurance which the Right Hou,baronet had given of tke favourable in tentions of Gov,erhment towards the Iriic“.amr would be remembered ihOn they exercised morti influence in those appointeiierits than they practical '&d a: present. After a few words from Mr. LAWL SB, the House divided. when there appeared— For the motion ..• ... 23 Against it ... 53 Majority ... • • ••• —3O The House then adjourned, at halkast Twelves PARLIAMEN TARY DIVISIONS. (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons) TUESDAY, APRIL 16. PAPER DUTY. Motion made, and Question put, " That whereas all taxes which directly impede the diffusion of knowledge are highly injurious to the public interest, and are most impol►tic sources of revenue, this House is of opinion that such finan cial arrangements ought to he made as will enable Parlia ment to repeal the Excise Duty on Paper." The House MINORITY—AYES, 89. Adair, R. A. Fcx, W. J. Nugent, Lord Adair, Hugh E. , Galway, Viscount O'Brien, Sir Lucius Alcock, Thomas Granby, Marquis of O'Connor, Feargus Batllic, 11. J. Grcenall, Gilbert Pechell, Sir G. Bennet, Philip Greene, John Pilkington, James Beresford, William Guernsey, Lord Portal, Melville Best, John Gwyn. Rowel Prime, Richard Blair, Stephen Hall, Sir Benjamin Ricardo, J. L. Blcwitt, Reginald Hastie, Alexander Roebuck, J. A. Boldero, H. G. Heyworth. Lawrence Rushout, Captain Booth, Sir It. G. Hildyard, R. C. Sadleir, John Bright, John Hill, Lord E. Saiwey, Colonel ilraen, Colonel Iludg,son, W. N. Scholetleld, W. Chatterton, Colonel Hope, 11. T. Seymer, Henry Ker Cobden, R. Hume, Joseph Smith, John B. Cole, 11. A. Keating, Robert Stanford, J. F. Compton, H. C. King, P. J. . Stanley, E. H. Conolly, Thomas Lawless, Cecil Stuart, Lord D. Crawford, W. S. Lennox, Lord A. Stuart, John Derereux, J. T. Lennox, Lord HG. Thompson, Colonel Disraeli, B. Leng, Waiter Thompson, George Doti, J. W. Lushington, Charles Trelawny, J. S. • Duncan, George Mackenzie, W. F. Vyse, H. Duncambe, T. M'Gregor, John Waddington, H. S. Edwards, Henry Manners, Lord J. Walmsley, Sir J. Ellis, Jom Marshall, J. G. Williams, John _ Ewart, William Molesworth, Sir W. Wyld, James Faga:i, William Mowatt, Francis Fel',owes, E. Mullings. J. It. TELLES9. Yiliner, sir E. Mundy, William Gibson, T. M. Forbes, William Naas, Lord • Cowan, Charles MAJORITY—NOES, 190. Fortescue, Chichester Morison, Sir W. Fortescue, J. W. Morris, David Fox, S. L. Mostyn, E. M. Freestun, Colonel Mulgrave, Earl Frewen, C. IL Norreys, Lord Goddard, A. L. Ogle, S. C. Goulburn, Henry Ord, William Grace, 0. I). Paget, Lord A. Greene, Thomas Paget, Lord C. Grenfell, C. Pascoe Paget, Lord G. Grenfell, Charles W. Paklngton, Sir J. Grey, Sir George Palmerston, Viscount Grosvenor, Earl Parker, John Guest, Sir J. Patten, J. W. Halford, Sir Henry Peel,,Sir.Robert Haniner, , ,Sir John Peel, Frederick Harcourt, G. Perfect, R. Hardcastle, J. A. Pigott, Francis Harris, Richard Pion - den, W. H. Ilastie, Archibald I'lumptre, J. P. llatcnell, John Power, Nicholas Hawes, It. llawdon, Colonel Hayes, Sir E. Reid, Colonel Ilayter, W. Cl. Rich, Henry Headlam, Thomas Romilly, Colonel Ileald,',James Romilly, Sir John Hcatheoitt, John Russell, Lord John Heneage, G. H. W. Russell, F. C. Henry, Alexander Rutherford, A. Hert‘ert, H. A. Scrope, G. P. Herbert, Sydney Seymour, Lord Hobhouse, Sir John Shalto, R. D. Hobhouse, T. B. Slaney, Robert A. Hodges, T. L. Smith, R. V. Hodges, T. Twisden Smith, J. A. Hollond, Robert Somerville, Sir W. Ilotham, Lord Spearman, H. J. Howard, Lord E. Stansileld, W. R. C. Howard, C.W. Strickland, Sir G. Howard, P. H. Stuart, Lord J. Inglis, Sir It. H. Stuart, H. Jervis, Sir John Talbot, J. H. Johnstone, Sir J. Tanered, H. W. Jones, Captain ilhicknesse, R. A. Keogh, William Thornely, T. Labouchere, Cleary Tollemache, F. J. Langstln, J. H. Townshend, Captain Lascelles, W. S. Tufaell, Henry Lewis, George C: Vane, Lord H. Lindsay, Colonel Verney, Sir:ll. Littleton, E. R. Walter, John Locke, Joseph Watkins, Colonel Loveden, Pryse Wegg-Prosser, F. Lygon, General Wellesley, Lord C, Mackie, John Willcox, Brodie 31`Neill, Duncan Wilson, James 31'raggart, Sir J. Wilson, Matthew Mahon, Lord Wood, Sir Charles Mangles, R. D. Wrightson, W. B. Matheson, Colonel Wyvill, Marmaduke Mauls, Fox Milner, W. M. Milges, R. H. Mitchell, T. - ..A. Monsell, William Abdy, Sir Thoms.3 Aglionby, H. A. Anson, Colonel Armstrong, Sir A. Bagsliav , . J olio Baines, Baring, Baring, Bass, T M. T. Sir F. T. Thomas 'homas Bellevr, R. M. Berkeley, Admiral , Berkeley, C. L. G. Bernal, Ralph Birch, Sir T. Blackall, S. W. Blake. Martin J. Blakemore, It. Bowles, Admiral Brockman, E. D. Brotherton, J. Browne, It. D. Busfeild, W. Campbell, W. F. Carter, John B. Chaplin, W. J. Childers, J. W. Clements, Charles Clerk Sir G. Clifford, H. M. Clive, llenry B. Cobbold, John C. Cockburn, A. J. Coke, E. K. Colebrooke, Sir T. Coles, Henry B. Cowper, W. F. Craig, Sir W. G. Crowder, R. B. Cubitt, William Dalrymple, Captain Davie, Sir H. Dawson, T. V. Denison, J. E. D'Eyncourt, C. T. Drumlanrig, Vis. Duff, George S. Duff, James Dtille, Sir James Duncuft, John Dundas, Admiral Dundas, Sir David Ebrington, Lord Egerton, Sir P. Elliot, J. E. Estcourt, J. B. B. Evans, J. Evans, William Evelyn, W. J. Farrar, James Fergus, John Ferguson, Sir R. Fitzpatrick. J Foley, John IL Fordyce, A. D. Forger, Mathew TELLERS, Hill, Lord Marcus Grey, Ralph W. PATRONAGE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF CONTROL. Motion made, and Question put, " That there be laid before this House a Return of all Persons in India receiving salaries, pensions, pay, profits, fees, emoluments, allowances, or grants of public money, by virtue of any direct or indirect nomination, recommendation, or appointment by the Presi dent of the Board of Control over the Affairs of India alone, or by virtue of any arrangement with the Board of Directors of the East India Company, and the dates of each such nomination, recommendation, or appointment respectively, from the Ist day of January, 1832, to the Ist day of March, 1850, excepting the Judges of the Superior Courts of Law in India; stating the total amount received by each individual in each year, and distinguishing the sources from which the payments are male." The House divided : MINORITY—AYES, 23. Anstey, Thomas C. Dundas, George Lawless, Cecil Bas',iM. T. Filmer, Sir E. Naas, Lord Best, John Greene, John Rawdon, Colonel Blake, M. J. lialsey, T. P. Scholefleid, William Cobbold, J. C. Mayes, Sir E. Tenison, E. K. Conolly, Thomas Henry, Alexander Dawson, T. V. Herbert, H. A. TELLER.. Devereux, John T. Keating, Robert Sadleir, John Dick, Quintin King, P.J. Keogh„William MAJORITY-NOES, 53. Aglionby, H. A. Grey, It. W. Palmerston, Vis. Anson, Colonel Mitchell, John Parker, John Baring, Sir F. Hawes, Benjamin Pilkington, James Bellew, It. M. Ilayter, W. G. Plowden, W. 11. Ber;:eley, 11. F. Ileneage, E. Power, ti icholai Berkeley, C. L. Hohhouse, Sir John Rich, Henry Boyle, Colonel Itotthouse, T. B. ltomilly, Sir John Brotherton, Joseph Hodges, T. L. Rutherfurd, A. Clements, Charles Howard, P. If. Seymour, Lord Craig, Sir W. G. Jervis, Sir John Somerville, Sir W. Dundas, Admiral Lahouchere, Henry Stuart, 11. Dundas, Sir David Lewis, G. C. Thieknesse, Ralph Elliot, John Loveden, Pryse Thompson, Colonel Evans, William Matheson, Colonel Tufnell, henry Ferguson, Sir It. Manic, Fox Wilson, James Foley, J. 11. • Morgan, 11. K. Freestun, Colonel Mulgrave, Earl Grenfen, Charles W. Ode, S. C. Grey, Sir G. Paget,;Lord A. TELLERS. Hill, Lard Marcus Howard, Lord E. TO THE SECRETARY OF THE BRADFORD REFORILI ASSOCIATION. Sir,—On Monday the 15th, the Chancellor of the Exchequer's new Stamp Duties Bill was considered in Committee. As a good deal hangs by this which is of import ance to those of whom you are the organ, I have to request that you will summon a jury of twelve good men and true of the operative classes, and put your self, as is meet, for foreman; and by their decision I will stand or fall. I need not tell such a jury, that in addition to the fact of taxation being heavier than needs,—which as far as concerns the present argument shall be ad mitted to any extent it is chosen to assign,—there was another enormous evil, which in truth made the sting of the whole as regards the working classes, which was or is, that the taxation was levied by a higher rate upon the poor than on the rich, in pro portions varying in different instances up to the pro portion of eleven to one. If the rich had taxed the poor at an eleventh part of the rate of themselves, the magnitude of the whole taxation might have been something approaching to the hundredth part of the importance it is at pre sent ; and therefore I main tain I sun right in saying , that the higher rate upon the poor was what ma de the sting, and consequently was one of the first things to be removed when I possible. At last, then, there comes a Chancellor of the Ex chequer who says, "I am conscious that this hi g h er r a te upon the poor is an enormity, and I will remove it. The Stamp Duties are a glaring instance, for there you will find the poor man who has scraped together 501. and wants to lend it on security, is t a xed 11., or 2 per cent. , while the man who wants to lend 1,000/., 2,0001., &C., is taxed at a continually decreasing rate, till it ends in settling that beyond the tax of 25/. there shall b e no i ncrease o f tax a t all. This then I will proceed to mend. And not to go in a peddling way ab o ut it, I w ill begin by reducing the payment of the poor man who has , scraped together 50/., from twenty shillings to half-a-crown, and I will farce the rich to pay up at the same rate, which I calculate will bring me within 300,0001. of my old receipts, and that difference I am ready to surrender to the concerned, as portion of my surplus." The Tories of course grumbled aloud. They stated in distinct words, only not put together so closely as I shall do it;that the rich were the really poor,—that they were subject to a thousand risks and sufferings of which the poor bad no idea, and consequently the business of a statesman and a Chancellor of the Ex chequer was to consult the interests of the rich, and see that they had the due allowance made them in the rate of taxation, which their unhappy state demanded. And when pushed by the Chancellor of the Exch , quer with the injustice of their principle beyond their means of answering, they. sa id, If, then, we are to be subjected to an equality of taxa tion in this matter, let us at all events have the least we can of it ;" and a Conservative Member of known activity pressed forward his amendment, that the rate on 501. (which was to determine all the rest) should be reduced from half-a-crown to !:i shilling. In other word, the Tories moved that if a system of fair taxation was to be imposed upon the rich, the extent to which it should b e carried should be dimi n i s h e d i n the proportion of 2 to 5. } -they would agree, they virtually said, to s? much of taxation as would l eave them at nearly their old payments ; hut if the Chan cellor of the Exchequer iwanted to relieve the poor, he might do it out of his own budget, and take the difference by some of the other taxes where the rich paid less and less in proportion to their riches. Under these circumstances, what did the men who are considered the popular leaders, and are to a great extent looked up to by you as such ? Did they coma forward and say, here is the beginning of a great principle, where at last justice to the people has found its way into the mouth of a Chancellor of the Ex chequer, and our prayer is that, not as little but as much as possible of the expenses of the country may be taken by this just plan and not by the unjust ? Did they support and encourage the Chancellor of the Exchequer to carry out the scheme of justice which by some special interposition of Providence had been suggested to his mind, and toss to the winds the puling prayer of the Conservatives, that if they were to pay a just tax, it might at all events be a little one ? No ; they turned round on the Chancellor of the Exchequer and said, "It is clear that by joining with the Tories we can put you into a minority and defeat your plan." And they did it, and the plan of the Chancellor of the Exchequer for laying the taxes on the rich instead of the poor, was defeated, or at all,events maimed and cut down, by the appearance of twenty of your so-called friends in the Tory majority, with the effect of pro ducing a majority of 164 to 135 against the Minis"- ters who wanted to begin the removal of your most crying evil. And now see what they have done. Had they ac knowledged and supported the good work attempted to be begun, there might have been hopes that the principle would have soon been carried farther ; in deed it was quite clear it must. The Stamp Duties are of comparatively small amount; but there are huge masses of taxation in other places, to which this principle might have been applied, if what call 'thein selves the popular leaders would only have allowed it. For instance, there is the Tea Duty, where every ounce of tea consumed by you and your families pays two, three, four, or five times as much in proportion to its, cost price, as what is consumed by the rich and powerful. And the Tea Duty is the source of a large portion of the revenue ; which every man responsible for having a revenue or for not having it, must consequently handle with care. Suppose then the Chancellor of the Exchequer had thought of ever saying, "The Tea Duty is another instance of this enormous oppression on the poor, and lam willing to alter ir. One step at a time is enough for any man, and the step I am prepared to take, is to equalize the duty on the poor man's tea and on the rich, to the extent of what will not dimi nish the total revenue by more than will leave me able to keep a balance on my books." Suppose that a Chancellor of the Exchequer should have been moved:in a dream or otherwise, to think of something of this kind,—and either something of this kind must be done by some Chancellor of the Exchequer, or you must remain paying four or five times over for your tea for ever. How would he be met by the first counsellor whose advice he asked ? He would be told, "No ; you cannot do that. If you try it, you will only be left without a Tea Duty, and the end will be the bringing in a Protectionist Minis- try, who will replace theTeaDuty, and the other upon Curn. There are the leaders of the popular party ready to join the Tories, to blow you up the first time ou touch duties of any kind in the way of reforming the rate of levying." Here, then, you stick fast. The present Govern ment would willingly relieve you from your injury in this matter, but what call themselves your leaders will not let them. By their distinct act and deed the Government is told, " Touch a fragment of the unjust taxation in the way:of laying it on the rich instead of the poor, and we vote with the Protec tionists." Unless the Government has something beyond human in its virtue, you will hear no more of any attempt to shift the taxes to the rich, for your leaders will not tolerate it. And here comes into sight another danger ; for dangers are never single. Do you or do you not acknowledge at Bradford, that you are better, both rich and poor, for the licensing of your trade by al lowing your goods to be sold for food ? If you do, then every man of you who has formed an honest expectation of future advantage whether great or small, —from the rich man who may have framed the notion of making Bradford the metropolis of the West Riding, to the poor man whose views are limited to being able to save enough to place his little boy ap prentice in what he considers a better condition than nia own,—may look forward to as much of danger as can arise out of the substitution of a Government pledged to undo what it is able, in the place of one that has removed your fetters. Such a change would not undo everything ; but it would undo much, and deep would be your regret if you had leen as sistant in the process. And now the case is before you. I may be wrong ; but while in charge of any kind, I never will lead into the ditch with my eyes open, though all the world should call fcr it. If the verdict of your jury is against me, I am quite ready to be pointed at in the street, with " There goes the man that would not vote against the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he wanted to shift taxation to the rich." What the course of the Government will be, should be the object of deep attention to all concerned. For the present, they only asked to report progresß, in other words to adjourn, for the purpose of considering their course. What the rich have at present established, is that they will consent to pay the same they did before, but the idea of paying anything more by the establish ment of an ad valorem rate where the poor are to pay the eighth part of what they do at present, they , utterly scout and reject, and the popular leaders sup port them in it. Thus a great victory in favour of the people is cut down by the popular leaders going over to the enemy. If the public would pronounce, as the Spaniards call it, the thing might be reversed in some of the subsequent stages. But without it, it hardly can. The Committee is to resume on Monday the 221. On Tuesday Mr. Milner Gibson proposed the re moval of the Excise duty on paper, in a most able speech, and was afterwards supported with equal ability by Mr. Roebuck. But of necessity the last night's proceedings told against them. Men cannot expect to cut down the Chancellor of the Exchequer in a bad cause one night, and cut him down in a good one the next. The leader of the Protectionists de clared his resolution to join; and it is certainly one thing to go over to the Protectionists, and a different thing to !Jaye them come over to us. The resolution, however, of the Member for Manchester was finally negatived by 190 against 89. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, AN OLD REFORMER. London, 17th April, 1850. RAILWAY SHARE MARKETS. BRISTOL, Arum 16. STOCK ExcnariGn.—Our share market was dull to-day, and prices are lower. The transactions we—Great Western 45 1 A, —Ditto, Quarters, 12% —.Ditto, 17 re /. Shares, 9 dis.—.! Midland, 3;!. LIVERPOOL, Amur. 16. STOCK Excrtarion.—Business on our Stock Exchange was dull today, and prices had a tendency downwards. The transactions were as follow :—Lancashire and . York shire, Consol., 32 A —Ditto, Halves, 151 4 Ditto, Fifths, 10X, —Ditto, 32/. Shares, 13s. 9d. c. dis.—London and orth- Western, 100 1 4—Ditto, New Quarters, 30,4 —Ditto, Halves, 28 1 % dis. South-Eastern and Dover, 121;—Ditto, Consol. (No. 3), 12%—Ditto (No. 4), Regis tered, 4 1 a—York. Newcastle, and Berwick (G. N. E. Pur.. chase), 6 per cent. till 1850, 73/ dis.—Birkenhead, Lanca shire, and Cheshire, 18Y R dis. Great Western, 46 3 / 4 111,inchester, Stafford, and Lin co l ns hi re, 12 c.—North Union (B), 164 1 / 9 —North Staffordshire, 1031 i dis.—Sudbury and Cheshire (N..W. ), Preference , guaranteed per cent., 12 _ MAY, C U ESTE ii,ApRIL 16. STOCK EXCHANGE.— A considerable amount of business has been done to-day, but prices are still depressed. The transactions were as follow : —East Lancashire, 6 9-16 n.— Edinburgh and Glasgow, 26 1 / 2 —Caledonian Preference, 5 1 , 4 1 East Anglian, Preference, 6 per cent. I—Lancashire and Yorkshire, 31—Ditto, Fifths, 10% dis.—Ditto (West Riding Union), 9 3 / 4 dis.—Ditto, Preference, 6 per cent., 11 1 4- -Ditto (Preston and Wyre), 10%—London and North- Western, 100—Ditto, New Quarters, 2 dis.—Ditto, Man chester and Birmingham, Quarters (C), 14 p.— Manches ter, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, 12 _Di tto , Preference, 6%7 Ditto, Grimsby (201. Shares), 2 1 / I —.North Staffor Thirds, (N 19.14 dis.—South-Eastern and Dover,. 12% —Ditto , o. 4), 4 5-16—North Union (B), 16414. BIRMINGHAM, Aram 16. to -day were— Great dull. The only transactions STOCK EXCHANGE.—The share mar ket continues ex tremely Western, 48 —Midland (New), 50. THE LIVERPOOL COUNTY CoURT. — We are in. el preference, fee namedrnetnercentering g i sah.u:ououl upon formed that no official intimation has yet been received at Stamford Raffles the County Court, in reference to the appointment of a suc cessor to the vacant judgeship. We understand that amongst t i, l s e t, ca a n r d e i ls d i a r t . es il , a i ni n sanddyitiaonnd to the e Th g o e m nt a le s m h barristers-at-law, the latter being the son of the Rev. Dr. , names. We bel i eve that Mr. Rafll a e i s n , l his candidature for the vacant office, with admirable feeling i o o s f the authorities he between himself u d u es d i e re rs t t o ai w id a. t iv. h e at a l l e l t c tc l letters received in town yes terdayo type, y 1 s p r e r , . w N e , i lhliaavme and his expressedthebeen cghiorie: h t friend Mr. Blair.—[Since the above was • announce officially the appointmentin h a y to the vacant post. we believe the business of court will therefore be at once resumed, and that insol tnheems vents may consequently now obtain renewal of protection.]— Liverpool Albion. IVonis are, sometimes signs of ideas, and sometimes of the want of them.—Eliza Cook's Journal. A LARGE PIKE.—On Saturday last, Mr. John Fnock, mess -master of the Ist Life Guards, caught a pike in the River Thames, at Clewerpoint, near Windsor, weighing upwards of 221b5,, it was a male fish, and in excellent con dition. [A DVERTISEM fINT.I —A most miraculous Cure of a Bad Leg of Sixty Years' Duration by Holloway's Ointment and Pills.—Mr. Barker, of 5, Graham's-place, Drypool, at the age of IS, had a breaking out on one of his legs, which ulti mately formed into an ulcerous sore, and increased in severity until he was CO years old, when it entirely took away his power of walking. At last, after seeking relief in vain for so many years, he had recourse to Holloway's ointment and pills, and these invaluable medicines have cured him so completely that he is now enabled to walk as well as most men of 50 years of age.—Sold by all Druggists, and at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, London.