The Sun. — London, England, 1851-03-28 00:00:00

NORFOLK RAILWAY. - - - The usual half-yearly general meeting of the pro prietors of the Norfolk Railway was held yesterday, at the offices in Guildhall-chambers; Major Tyndale, chairman of the board of directors, in the chair. ' The advertisement convening the meeting having been read, the common seal of the company was affixed to the register of proprietors, and the minutes of the previous meeting confirmed. The report of the directors was then submitted to the proprietors, as follows: " The statement of the company's receipts and ex penditure en capital account for the half-year ending 31st December last, together with the revenue account of the Eastern Counties and Norfolk Companies for the same period, have been for soma time in the hands of the proprietors. " There is nothing in the former account which . appears to call for remark from the directors; they do not consider themselves responsible for the last men tioned account, as they have not been consulted in its preparation, and they entirely dissent from that part of it which relates to the expenditure, in respect of the Norfolk line. • " While the question of the proposed amalgamation ) ;eetween this company and the Eastern Counties and Btestern Union Companies was in a state of abeyance, yoter directors felt that any further observations from them, beyond what had already been made at the last specie; meeting would have been ill-timed, and that it was deg. - able to avoid discussion on the subject by the proprietors; ietors• for this reason they proposed the adjourn ment of the meeting, which was agreed to by the pro prietors, and the event has fully justified the course which was adopted. " Although your directors for some time past have considered that they had good ground for complaint at the course which has been pursued by the Eastern Coun ties Company towards this company, they have hitherto refrained from remarking upon it, wishing to avoid all occasion for irritation, and believing that although there was a section of the proprietary of that com pany who had always opposed the union, yet, that the board of directors and the great majority of the shareholders, not only from motives of good faith and honour, but from a conviction of its advantage to their interests, were resolved to maintain it. Under these circumstances it was felt that some allowance must be made for excited feelings, and the natural disap pointment felt by the proprietors, at the depressed state of their undertaking, as it might be supposed by those who had not fully considered the subject, that the arrangement with the Norfolk Company had in some way contributed to that state of depression. The event has not satisfied your directors that they were right in exercising this forbearance, for the absence of contra diction seems to have given strength to the section be fore adverted to, and the proceedings at the late meet ing of the Eastern Counties Company evince that a most erroneous impression prevails, both as to the nature of the arrangement with this company, and of its value to their interests. " These remarks apply only to the existing agreement between this company and the Eastern Counties Com pany, and not to the more recent agreement for amal gamation, to which the Eastern Union Company were parties. It was of course quite competent for the Eastern Counties proprietors to reject that agreement if they thought proper; and although your directors still think that an arrangement upon some such basis as was proposed would have been the most advantageous thing for all parties, they feel that there is no cause of com plaint at its rejection, and they have no desire to offer anyfurther remark upon the subject. " "It is quite evident, however, that the time is now come when a distinct understanding must be come to be tween this company and the Eastern Counties Company as to the nature of their relations; and the directors hope that they will be supported by their proprietors in bring - jug this matter to a speedy issue. " It will be proper, in the first instance, to bring before the meeting all the circumstances connected with this • arrangement, in order to show its true character and obj let. The following is a copy of the heads of agreement which were submitted to, and approved by, special meetings of both the companies, held on the 2d of May 1848 : " ' That, as soon as practicable after this meeting, the lines of the Norfolk Railway shall be placed in the hands of the Eastern Counties Company, and worked by them in conjunction with their own line, under the direction of a joint committee, a lease being granted by this com pany under the powers of their present Act, of their rates and tolls, to three or more of the directors of the Discern Counties Company, as the legal means of carry ing out the arrangement, until the sanction of Parlia ment can be obtained to the permanent amalgamation of the companies. " • That, from the period of their taking possession of the Norfolk lines, the Eastern Counties Company • shall take upon themselves the payment of the interest on borrowed capital and guaranteed shares of the Nor folk and Lowestoft Companies, and shall pay to the shareholders a dividend after the same rate as shall from time to time be declared on the capitel stock of the Eastern Counties Company. • " ' That the debts and liabilities of the Norfolk and Lowestoft Companies shall be liquidated under the di rection of the joint committee, aided by the Eastern Counties Company, who are to have a lien charge upon all the property of the Norfolk Company for any sums which they may advance for this purpose. " 6 That application shall be made to Parliament, at the earliest practicable period, for an Act to authorise the permanent amalgamation of the companies, in which ppovision shall be made for giving to the Norfolk share holders the same rights and privileges which are enjoyed by the Eastern Counties shareholders. " ' net in the mein time, until such Act can be ob tained, the Norfolk Compeny shall do all acts that may be necessary for giving legal effect to the arrangement, and permit the Eastern Counties Company to work the lino in their name, the establishments ut the two com panies being blended together as far as possible. " ' That all disputes and diff2rencee shall be left to arbit ration.' "In pursnance of these resolutions, an agreement was prepared, and received the seals of both companies, • to which it is not necessary to refer further, than to state that it carries out the principle of a complete and entire amalgamation between the companies as far as it was posstele to do so, until an Act of Parliameut could be ob . tamed. . " Upon the faith of this agreement, the Eastern Coun ties Company were put in possession of the lines belong ing to this company, and of all their moveable property and effects, which, es the proprietors are aware, have ever since been worked by them as part of their own line. " The Act of Amalgamation was applied for in the session of 1849. but while it was pending, events ocs • curred in the Eastern Counties Company which led to a committee of investigation being appointed at the general meeting held on the 28th February, 1849, at which meeting great hostility was evinced to the pro posed amalgamation, and the attention of the committee • especially directed to it. " That committee, after a carefal inquiry, came to the conclusion that, 'es a commercial transaction, the agree meat was fair and eqaltable ;' and that, ' in their judg ' mc nt, ii,' the opposition to it should secceed, irreparable injury would to &Tie to the Eastern Counties Com piny,' and ' they unanimously recommended that the analgamation should be completed.' "This report was adopted at a subsequent general nesting of she Eastern Counties Company, and the Thu for this am:), , ;. : , ..mltion approved by a very large majority'. ~ The Bill, as i. 4 well known, was l os t th roug h th e op position of ho3tile companies ; and ee there was great repugnancp, on the par: of the Eastern Co un ti es three • tors, to renew the application to Parliament in the next • session, which they were bound to do according to the • terms of the agreement, it was proposed, that a sup plemental agreement should he entered into between the • companies, which should practically eff,ct the objects of the amalgamation, until a more favourable opportu nity should present itself for a renewed application to Parliament. " The heads of this second agreement, as presented to and approved by the general meetings of both com panies, held in August, 1849, aro as follows: " ' The terms of complete amalgamation, to be sanc tioned by Parliament, shall remain the same as already • agreed to. ." But to prevent litigation, and in order that the transactiods of both companies pending the sanction by Parliament of the amalgamation may be regular and legal, it is agreed between both companies as follows: "'That the Norfolk Company shall repay the Eastern Counties Company's advances. " 6 That the Eastern Counties Company shall purchase the Norfolk Company's rolling stock now in their pos session, and pay for the same by instalments, as may be . agreed between the Companies. " ' That instead of a lease of the tolls to terminate in May, 1855, the Eastern Counties Company shall, under . the 208th section of their Act of Incorporation, work and use the Norfolk lines until the same date, and pay to the Norfolk Company such rates and tolls as shall be sufficient to enable them to pay the expenses of main taining their lines and the interest on the guaranteed stocks and borrowed moneys, and a like dividend half yearly, to theft proprietors as shall be paid the Eastern COl-1 1111 " Proprietors. • That the Norfolk Compauy shall complete the w o rks at ILowestoftllarbour . That the Easter n Counties Company shall keep up e . the Norfolk rolling st„)c, k to the same state of efficiency as when receiv ed, and that th e N or f o lk C ompany, i n May, 1855, if the amalgamation be not then sanctioned • by Parliament, shall Fe-y,nrchaae the said rolling stock at .15 es:oaciake the anleiab e Externb annulled, n Coun tiesPnualrlleida : the same price es s hall b • now p a i d by ~ ,Cioim, That a i n f y t - h r e o rth amalgamation slave. of such purchase by the !Bent, the purchase of the rolling and the payments on of their limit of Eastern Counties, to become advances to the Norfolk account Company, and charged against them as part ex penditure to be comprised within the agre e d ,300,000/. "'That the Eastern Counties and Norfolk Comp an i es , shall unite in further application to PaAisment, for a tm ,: tion to the amalgamation, and for the establishment of a fair sad just tariff to regulate the lines of both companies, and shall appeal to the justice of Parliament, not to im pose or to continue upon any portions of the lines, rates or terms for carrying, which experience shall have are not adr quato i y remunerat i ve. ' "The agree ment proved embodying these terms, which suh scqu,s;tlr received the seals c f the companies, expressly euv e s es -1 the zgreemen!, for ernalgarriation. "This sir2;,,e narrative of facts, will sufficiently refute the statement which has been circulated among the CEWspApEi t Eastern Counties shareholders, that the existing ar ,__ ~__,,...4,„, \c4. range_me ,, n , Lb , e . t . a , ::'.7 . U r "..- , '- - jf htetshhth perarp ea-- e'er. Yot, pi• ~-;-, " p_ ~..„ Lapr.Ami... wail tac j., : is merely of a tem r„, although by no means ... vantages derived by this cora l! x - 74, ,_, L „ 7 , - ; f any frog the v•Grking of the arrapffraent, have jolt 1 '-' "'""- ''' •'' t c „,... / ...,,.... \A r thee :r directors, dc:iirTePtloi: s , t ou -,- i i . : , .. a they were committed to a cumplete Laid entire tonal t,.l eesitiss ito,,WAratiation with the reistern Couetie C . . . a emptily el that vany, hey could not as men of honour be p ar ti es to any pro ..::‘Yeeeding shils wou ld yLolate the spirit o f t h e ogee/was& fhi A THE SUN, " Until this time they have bad every reason to be lieve that the sentiments of the Eastern Counties Board upon this subject were the same as their own, but as one of their body at the late meeting publicly expressed a contrary opinion without any dissent from his col leagues, they are led to conclude that a change has come over their views respecting the agreement, and it behoves this company therefore to act accordingly. " The Norfolk shareholders must not suppose that the figures stated in the Eastern Counties reports, respect ing their line, give a correct idea of the value of their property—the directors cannot give any information as to the manner in which those accounts are made up; but they are satisfied that some great error must exist when the working expenses on a line like the Norfolk are charged at the rate of 800/. per mile, exclusive of taxes, when parties of known ability are ready to under take to work it for 6001. a mile, adding 6,000/. to meet expenses of management and taxation—a saving of up wards of 26,000/. is at once shown in the amount charged against this company. " It would be a great mistake to imagine that the ac tual additional cost to the Eastern Counties Company, beyond the expenses of working thcir own line, amounts to anything like that sum—the number of engines, car riages, and waggons required to work the Norfolk, in addition to those necessary for their own traffic is very small, and if this were truly stated, with the cost of coke consumed on, and the expense of the stations and main tenance of, the Norfolk line, there can be no doubt that a very different result would be presented. " The real value of the Norfolk line to the Eastern Counties Company consists in the amount of through traffic brought upon their line at Brandon—this was stated at the time of the agreement for amalgamotion to be between 90,0001. and 100,0001. a year. It is clear, therefore, that it is not the interest of that company to put an end to the amalgamation, and so long as they are prepared to act honourably up to the the engagement they had entered into, the Norfolk di rectors would have been the last persons to think of withdrawing from it. They feel, however, after what has passed, that they should be wanting in their duty to their proprietors, if they did not at once put an end to the state of uncertainty which now exists, by calling upon the Eastern Counties Company specifically to de clare whether it is their desire that the amalgamation should be completed, and if so, to require that it shall at once be rendered as permanent as their powers will per mit until the sanction of Parliament can be obtained to it; but if it be their wish to treat the agreement as temporary only, then the same should be determined at as early a period as can be conveniently arranged be tween the companies. " If the proprietors should concur in the views here expressed, resolutions will be submitted to them em powering the directors to act accordingly. "A Bill has been introduced into Parliament by the Eastern Union Company, containing clauses for run ❑ing powers over the Norfolk line to Lowestoft and Yarmouth. If this part of the measure should bo pro ceeded with, the directors will consider it their duty to give it their most strenuous opposition. " Mr. Court, one of the auditors, has delivered in a special report, which will be read to the meeting; and as that gentleman desires to withdraw from the office of auditor, it will be necessary for the proprietors to pro ceed to the appointment of one in his stead. " Two of your directors, namely, Major Tyndale, and Mr. Duff, retire by rotation, but are re-eligible as direc tors, and have signified their intention to serve if re elected. " The directors have received a communication from Messrs. Quilter and Co., on the subject of the accounts, which will be laid before the meeting." The CHAIRMAN, in moving the adoption of the report, said he had nothing to add to it, as the report went fully into the affairs of the company; but be wished the meeting to depart from the ordinary course, and allow Mr. Peto, before they adopted the report, to disclose to them the terms upon which it was proposed to amalga mate with the Eastern Counties Company. Major COURT objected to this; they ought to dis pose of the report and accounts first. The CHAIRMAN said it would save time and trouble if his suggestions were agreed to. It was by far the most convenient course. A SHAREHOLDER moved that the discussion on the subject of the amalgamation scheme be at once pro ceeded with, and this motion having been seconded was put from the Chair and carried. The CHAIRMAN then called upon Mr. Pet() to state the views of the directors on the matter. Mr. PeTO said—lt will be necessary, gentlemen, on the present occasion to ask your kind indulgence, be cause in offering to you the few remarks which I deem it my duty to make in compliance with the request of the chairman, I feel I do so while suffering under very severe indisposition. Therefore I trust you will kindly excuse any deficiency on my part, for I assure you that nothing but the extreme anxiety which I feel in eon flexion with this company would have induced me to come here to-day.—(Bear, hear.) In the first place I will read the resolution which it is my intention to sub mit to your consideration. It is as follows: " Resolved—That this meeting is of opinion that the Eastern Counties Company should be called upon to complete the agreement made with this company on the 2d May, 1848, for the amalgamation of the two com panies, either by concurring with this company in an ap plication to Parliament in the next session, or (if that should be considered inexpedient) by extending the pre sent arrangement for such a period as shall leave no doubt of its permanent character. " That in the event of the Eastern Counties Company declining to adopt the necessary measures for completing the amalgamation, the directors of this company be, and they are hereby authorised, to take such steps as they shall think fit for determining and putting an end to the agreement at as early a period as shall bo practicable." Now, gentlemen, I never addressed you on so im portant au occasion as the present, because, whether this resolution be adopted or rejected, a large amount of influence for good or for evil must necessarily result to the company—(Hear, hear)—and in moving the adoption of the resolutiouj am extremely anxious that not one word should escape me which can for a moment excite any feeling on your part, or indi cate any feeling on that of my own.—(Hear, hear.) We are considering a great commercial question, and as such we shall consider it calmly, tnoughtfully, and without any feeling beyond what must neces sarily be brought to bear on the question itself. The policy of the Eastern Counties Company, as repre sented in their new board, I take to be fairly indicated in the address of Mr. Margrave at the late meeting; and in referring to his name, it will be distinctly understood, that I have no feeling with regard to that gentleman ex cept that of respect.—(Cheers.) I met him on your part as arbitrator for the Eastern Counties Company in deciding on all the accounts open between the companies, and I feel it due to him to say that I was met fairly by him on all matters, and nothing occurred during our intercourse excepting that which was of a pleasurable nature, and to which I hope he will always look back with complete satisfaction.—(Hear, hear.) Having stated to you the regard in which I hold Mr. Margrave himself, I now proceed to point out to you the terms of his address on the occasion to which I have alluded, and which I under stand to convey the course of policy to be hereafter pursued by the new board of the Eistern Counties Company. Mr. Margrave said,— " He admitted that ho was a party to the first Nor folk agreement, and be would not be a party to its abro gation. but having found out that be had made a mis take, he would use his experience to save them from confirming it in perpetuity." Now, gentlemen, that agreement, if it was an agree ment at all, was for the complete amalgamation of the two companies. —(Hear.) I will refer you to the reso lutions contained in the third page of the report, in which you yourselves sanctioned that agreement:— That application shall be made to Parliament at the earliest practicable period for an Act to authorise the permanent amalgamation of the companies, in which pro vision shall be made for giving to the Norfolk share holders the same rights and privileges which are enjoyed by the Eastern Counties shareholders." Then again it was resolved that— " The terms of complete amalgamation, as to be sanctioned by Parliament, shall remain the same as already agreed to." Now, the object of these resolutions was to request at the hands of the Eastern Counties Company, that this should be carried out in the following session of Parlia ment, or, if they preferred the other alternative, that the agreement should be rendered as perpetual as the power of the two companies permitted them for a period of years, rendering, without doubt, your property identical with theirs. Mr. Margrave has stated, and it has also been stated by the committee to whom the Eastern Counties Company referred the question of amalgamation between the three companies, that their connexion with us is a source of loss to them, and that I to the extent of near ly 20,0001. per annum. am pre pared to show that it has not been a loss to them, that your property can be worked by yourselves so as to pay all the guarantees and interest on preference stock, and leave you a dividend quite equal to that which you would receive under the proposed amalgamation of the three companies. The amount stated in the committee's re port with respect to the receipts of your line, they put in the first instance at 122,8301. per annum, and in the next place they state the working expenses to be 76,5201. per annum, or 8201. per mile per annum. Now, Mr. Stephenson, in giving his evidence before the original committee of investigation on the Eastern Counties hue, stated that your line ought to be worked at an expense of 500/. per mile per annum, with an addition for taxes and some fixed expenses. Your directors, in order to be prepared on this point, have taken care to consult with parties who are prepared to undertake under contract, with heavy: penalties, to work your line for 5001. per mile per annum, adding 6,0001. to meet expenses of management and taxes, which would produce a saling of upwards of 26,0001. a year upon the amount stated by the Eastern Counties Company. Now it will be my duty to show you not only that the contract can be so entered into, but that your line can be worked by yourselves, if you please so to adopt, without any contract at all; and I take a detailed state ment, prepared with considerable care, of the working Petth s Per mile run, 0 expenses of other companies in proof of this assertion . ___ e Y Part- Now I find that, taking their train ex- Counties, the h. London with the exception of the Eastern and triiphest price of any railway is that of the that their earterf I should say, at the same time, ge t° p n e; mile are larger than those of any ther e other corn at the about 9s. 61. per mile character of their trains, li run; 2. a r 1 y :tad 1 looking Paa o l f ' trains, -itbeing fast and express you wl- not be surprised to find on excess as ear as that line is concerned, but on will find the London and B,rfighton to be 11d. per on for Om you as near as I can the t h e ti ee t, talf-year, a,....1 for the second half-year Bd. w h ic h is Sid. The Great Western r 3 e . s s u .9 ltt ee p ial en s c l e, first half-year Is 9id., arid the second 80, the Allow me to The Laudon and South-Western 8&d. for both half-years. The South-Eastern 9d. for both half-years. The Newcastle and Berwick 84d. first half, 7d. the second. York and North Midland first W., and second 7d. Lancashire and Yorkshire 7+d. for both halves. The Great Northern 74d. first, and 64d. second; but upon the Eastern Coun ties the first halt is 171 d., and the second 16+cl. Now, in confirmation of this I may also state, that having the honour of presiding over the direction cf the Chester and Holyhead , Railway Company, which is in connexion with the London and North-Western, and is worked by that company, that the price which they charge is equivalent to a saving of 50 per cent. on the prices charged you by the Eastern Counties Company. The Chester and Holy head Railway is the same length of line as the Norfolk— viz., about ninety-four miles and a half, and is an exten sion of another line, where the coke is equally expensive; and there is no circcumstance in connexion with their traffic, as compared with your own, so as to render your own traffic more expensive than theirs. I will now refer more particularly to the New castle and Berwick, and I do so on this account namely, that the Newcastle and Ber wick is a line the same length as the Eastern Counties, about 292 miles, and half its traffic mileage run is goods, and the other half are passenger trains, while on your line two-thirds is passenger trains, and the other third goods, and therefore I give the benefit to the Newcastle and Berwick, as there is a difference in the price of coke between the two companies I have added 2+cl. per mile. The Newcastle and Berwick line is peculiarly favoured with reference to the price of coke. And we have another reason for taking the Newcastle and Berwick, which is that Mr. Quilter is the accountant to that company, as well as the accountant to the Eastern Counties. And, therefore, I am sure when I mention his name, we have no reason at all to doubt the accuracy of the figures,' and I think the Eastern Coun ties Company cannot but feel that the accountant, ho noured with their own confidence, can be for a moment questioned in point of figures. I find we have run dur ing the last year 493,000 train miles, and taking the difference in the price of coke on the Newcastle and Berwick line into consideration, there will be a saving of 14,000/. on the prices charged by the Eastern Coun ties Company. I find also that there is a charge on the Newcastle and Berwick line for miscellaneous ex penses, which, during the year on two hundred and ninety-two miles, Mr. Quilter certifies at 30,0001., while you are charged by the Eastern Counties for 92 miles 12,5001. Now, if I take the difference in the miscellaneous expenditure and the train miles run, it brings the amount charged you for working to the amount stated by your board, and as I have mentioned that parties of the highest possible respectability are prepared to work it for, I think I have shown you that upon all the various companies whose expenses I have alluded to, you arc charged is. sd. and ls. 4d. for that which on another line is worked for 81d., and therefore I think unquestionably you will agree with me that your property is unfairly depreciated by an excess of expenditure, the accuracy of which I do not question; but with respect to the property, of which I wilt say that it I were a member of the board I should feel I could not retain my seat with justice to myself as a commercial man, if I could not work as cheaply on the Eastern Counties as on any other line. Your board are placing you in a position of absolute security by showing that you have the alternative of that contract, and you can work your line at the price I have stated. Another point in the address of Mr. Margrave, to which it is my duty to refei, is this:—Mr. Margrave says the " agreement was bad in 1849, and worse in 1851, for the opening of the Eastern Union had abstracted fully half of their traffic." lam most surprised at that statement, for the only point where the Eastern Union affects your traffic is at Norwich. They have no connexion with your line at any other point, and seeing that the same fares are charged by both companies, I cannot conceive it at all possible to be worth the while of any passenger to get out of our trains at one station, and walk a full mile and a half to another, to go to London at precisely the same charge. 1 have ob tained from Norwich a tabular statement, which is very much at your service, showing the traffic of every amount for a year before the opening of the Eastern Union Line, and of a year aft erwar d s , I have also by me a statement from all the stations on the line, and I find that the full amount abstracted from your line is 8,0001. a year. It has a l wa y s b een m y opi nion that if your line were worked, as I hope it will be, on a friendly alliance with the Eastern Union and the Eastern Counties Companies, because I am no advocate for competition of any kind, that the exchange of traffic between the Eastern Union and your own line will be greater in amount than the loss which we sustain by their abstracting a portion of your through traffic from Norwich, and when I tell you that at least 80 per cent. of your traffic is peculiarly local, I think you will agree with me that there can be no doubt whatever as to that. Now, supposing, gentlemen, that we were to lose one-half of the through traffic to London, I will assume that instead of 122,800/., the receipts may be reduced to between 110,000/. and 112,0001.; but then your report states that, and your directors have not been anxious to overstate the thing. You place on the Eastern Counties line a traffic to the amount of between 90,000/. and 100,000/. per annum, and here I may observe that I have ascertained on data not to be questioned that the through traffic which you placed on the Eastern Counties last year amounted to 105,000/. Is it likely that, if the Eastern Counties, by making terms with the Great Northern, or the Midland and the London and North-Western Companies, to put on those lines at Peterborough traffics to be sent to wards Liverpool or Lancashire, they would hand over their traffic without any consideration or without any per-tentage being allowed them in return out of the amount of profit to be derived from that traffic? I know Mr. Waddington too well as a man of business, and as a man perfectly conversant with railways, not to feel that he would exact from them a fair amount of the profit from all traffic which he brought on any other line but his own—(Hear)—and I say your position is simply this—you are at liberty to go to the Great Northern to morrow and say to them, that at Doreham we want to make an arrangement with you by which you will give us a cer tain per-centage on all traffic which we put on your line; and it is my duty to inform you that the Great Northern are prepared to enter into that arraugement.—(Cheers.) Well, I will not say more on that subject. You must feel, gentlemen, that in this matter the board has your con fidence, or you ought to be frank and tell them at once that they do not possess your confidence—(Hear)—and lam sure every one of the directors will feel it their duty immediately to retire without a murmur, and make way for any other persons whom you may think fit to appoint ; and I assure you we will give them every information we possess, and work cordially and heartily with them for the development of your traffic, and for the purpose of placing you in that position in which you ought to bo commercially placed.—(Cheers.) But at the present moment I tell you, with all sincerity, that this is a crisis iu your affairs, and that you are bound to take a bold, energetic, prudent, and peaceful line of policy—not an tagonistic to the Eastern Counties Company or any other company, but in order to put yourselves in a position to have a certain amount—and to say that you shall and must have the worth of your line before you part with it.--(Cheers.) Now, a word as to the policy of the Eastern Counties Company up to the present moment. You may feel that in taking the speech of Mr. Margrave lan taking that which is not the policy of the heard— that it may be the speech on which he was returned as director, but does not indicate the policy which the board is prepared to carry out; but I will point to another fact. The Eastern Counties Company entered into an agreement last week with the Newmarket Com pany, Ly which they have agreed to give 2+ per cent. to the old stock, besides paying the guarantees and debentures, whereas in their report a year since they refused to enter into any alliance with the company at all, alleging that they (the Newmarket Company) were not even able to pay their working expenses. I have no objection to this arrangement with the Newmarket Railway, though I believe it has been simply made in order to plece us at a disadvantage; but as commercial men it behoves us now to take care of our own property.—(Cheers.) And if you ask me why I object to the Eastern Counties Company continuing fer the next four and a half years working your line, my answer is simply this, that I will not trust myself in the hands of gentlemen who profess to be unfriendly towards us.—(Cheers.) I need not say four and a half years' obstruction instead of cultivation of your traffic would be your ruin —(Cheers)—and we are not prepared as commercial men to agree to this extension of time unless it is on the assumption that we go on equal terms with the Eastern Counties Company. We will work together as friends or allies, or not at all—(Loud cheers)—and we are not prepared to sacrifice our interests for any short-sighted policy ; and I am perfectly ready to say to them at once, " You assert that your alliance with us is a source of loss and ruin to you—now give up that alliance, and we will pay you your money to-morrow," and we (addressing the shareholders) are ready to make that payment without distressing you by any additional calls.—(Loud cheers.) I felt it my duty—out of a regard for my own character—be fore I said we could take this course of policy, to be satisfied I could get the money, in order that I might not put you in a position in which the Eastern Counties Company might distress you ; and I made arrangements by which, if they will to morrow revalue the stock over to us, and let us take care of our own property again, I should be prepared to pay every farthing we owe to them.—(Cheers.) I will say to them, " Here is your money —you have played with us long enough—we will no longer be parties to your vacillating course of con duct, but we are sure of the intrinsic value of our property, and we will take care of it ourselves." Gen tlemen, to show you that the board have, during the last year, done all in their power with reference to the cultivation of your traffic, we represented to the Eastern Counties Company that they were making the through traffic everything, and making the local traffic, from which we derived 80 per cent. of our income, nothing; and making all the local traffic dependent on the through trains, and that by doing so per sons from Fakenham to Norwich were never sure of making the journey without delay, frequently extending to three-quarters of an hour.—(Hear, hear.) But they demurred to the making of any altera tion, and I told them that we must have some alteration, and the course of policy which I recommended them to pursue for the purpose of enhancing our position with regard to local traffic , was that they should adopt a different class of engines for the local traffic, independent of the through traffic. They hesitated to adopt my advice, and I said "I will let you have four engines with 1 2- inch cylinders by the Ist of May next, and you shall have the use of them for six months, without one farthing of charge, so as to give me an opportunity of taking care of my own property by running local tra ins, and accommodating the inhabitants of the district. I will guarantee that they shall run at a consumption of LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 28, 1851 Bilbs of coke per mile, instead of burning 261b5., which your heavy engines do at the pre. sent moment. I will guarantee that you shall carry, if necessary, a certain amount of goods in addition to the passenger traffic." They agreed to my preposition; these engines were ordered, and will be delivered, aq I have stated to you, by the Ist of May. Now, I ask you whether we have not been prepared to do all we could? But we were not . prepared to stultify ourselves by entering into a blind course of policy which would have the effect of handing over our property for four years and a half to those who propose the adoption of an act adverse to your interest, and I, as an independent proprietor and one of the oldest shareholders, will at my own cost pursue any course of legal proceeding necessary to put an end to an agreement the mutuality of which has never bean disturbed by your directors, but which has never been acted upon by the Eastern Counties Company. The course which I propose in this matter has not been taken without deep refleotion. I profess to some know ledge of a practical character, which enables me to come to you and say you may take the steps I recommend without any fear of sustaining loss, and I believe you will thank the board ever afterwards for pursuing that inde pendent course of conduct which only as commercial men they can pursue.—(The Hon. Gentleman sat down amid loud and protracted cheers.) Mr. BARKER seconded the resolution. _ _ _ Major COURT described the position in which the company was now placed as that of the man who locked the door after his steed was stolen. He had al ways objected to this agreement, but there could be no doubt that, under its provisions, they were bound to stick to the Eastern Counties Company until 1855. He should therefore object to the company being put to any expense either in taking law or other pro ceedings to set this agreement aside, which he contended the Eastern Counties had strictly fulfilled. The opinion expressed by Mr. Margrave ought to be taken as a matter of speech and not as conveying the real feeling of the Eastern Counties Board on the subject of the amalgamation, or the agreement in the policy which that company proposed in future to adopt. Still he had no objection to adopt the permissive resolution, provided that it was understood that no legal proceed ings should be taken. Mr. PETO hoped it would not be necessary to go to law. All that it was proposed to do was tocall upon the Eastern Counties to complete the agreement, or abandon posses sion of a line which they held out to the public was a losing concern. It would be bad taste to indulge in threats of retiring, but the directors had given the proprietors their best advice, and it was for them to decide whether that advice should be acted on or not. This was a most important crisis in their affairs, and he had no hesitation in declaring that unless something was immediately done to avert such a result, there was nothing for the com pany but ruin. A SHAREHOLDER asked what the cost of working was before the lino passed into the hands of the Eastern Counties Company. Mr. PETO said they would obtain nothing from being put in possession of that information. The CHAIRMAN, however, declared that it was much less than what was now charged by the Eastern Counties Company. A SHAREHOLDER thought the interests of the com pany could be safely entrusted to the present board, which was composed of honourable and business - like men, and after the lucid and satisfactory statement of Mr. Peto be did hope the meet ing would unanimously adopt the resolutions which he had proposed to them. The CHAIRMAN hoped so, too. All he could say was, that be perfectly agreed with the spirit and tenor of these resolutions, and he felt that the board would ul timately succeed in restoring the prosperity of the un dertaking. The Secretary would read the special report of the auditors. Mr. Priv thought it right to mention that the report of Messrs. Quilter upon the state of their capital account was ready, and that it would be shortly published; also, that all the accounts were strictly accurate and highly satisfactory. The report of the auditors were then read. The CHAIRMAN next proposed the adoption of the report, and confirmation of the accounts. Major COURT moved an amendment negativing the latter part of the motion, but he found no seconder, and it consequently fell to the ground, and the original motion was carried almost unanimously, the mover of the amend ment being the only dissentient. The retiring directors, Major Tyndale and Mr. Duff, were then re-elected. Major COURT moved that the number of auditors be reduced to one, and the salary to 301. per annum. The CHAIRMAN said the meeting could not entertain the first part of the motion, inasmuch as the Act of Par liament required two auditors. The motion was therefore not persevered in. Mr. Norbury was then appointed an auditor. A cordial vote of thanks was then passed to Mr. Pato for the zeal and attention which he had always devoted to the interests of the company. Mr. Ps TO briefly acknowledged the compliment, and communicated a piece of information to the meeting which, he thought, was exceedingly gratifying. A num ber of gentlemen had recently associated themselves to gether under the style and title of the Northern Steam Packet Company, for the purpose of cultivating the trade north of the TexaL The first steam vessel of 500 tons and 200 horse-power would sail from Lowestoft on Saturday next, while a second steamer was being built in the Clyde, which would be capable of carrying 300 bead of ca ttle, 500 sheep, and 500 pigs , These gentlemen had also arranged with the King of Denmark for carrying the mails and developing the cattle traffic of that country, and the 400 or 500 head of sheep and pigs which this would bring upon their line would more than compensate them for the de ficiency which might be occasioned by the abstraction of other companies. Thanks were then voted to the Chairman, and the meeting terminated. SOUTH WALES AND GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY COMPANIES. A large shareholder in the South Wales Company, upon data submitted by him to Mr. J. A. Franklin, the professional auditor and accountant, has obtained the following computations:— It is understood that the directors of these two com panies have made a preliminary contract, substituting for the existing guarantee of 5 per cent. payable by the Great Western Company, graduated payments as fol lows, receiving in exchange one-third of the net profits upon the South Wales line, via.:-1. When Swansea is connected with Gloucester, 30,5001. per annum. 2. On extension to Carmarthen,' 38,5001. per annum. 3. On extension to Milford, &c., 46,0001. per annum. Hence the computations given below. Estimates of profits and dividends upon the railway from Swansea to Gloucester Junction, assuming the fol lowing data:—Mileage, 105; debentures, 500,0001., at 5 per cent.; maintenance of way and contingencies, 1001. per mile per annum; management and charges, 5,000/. per annum; share capital, 2,500,000/. Every 1,2501. per annum saved in any of the fore going items of expenditure will increase the dividend One shilling per cent. If the share capital claiming dividend be 250,000/. less, the dividend will be one-ninth greater. ' Illre of Stock and Gross Traffic working expenses Amount of DlTidend per per Week. per conseeutlyo two-thirds cent. 1,0001. traffic. of Profit. E. £. 1,000 5B per cent.* ... ... ..... .473 1,000 ........50 „ 4,894 ........ 1'425 1,000 0 1,000 * The published balance sheet gives this item 58 per cent. upon the first 1,000/. per week; the estimate as sumes a reduction to 50 per cent. on the second 1,0001., to 45 per cent. on the third 1,000/, and so on. Rough estimate of the comparative minima guaranteed by the Great Western Company, say in June, 1853:- Ist EXISTING CONTRACT.—Upon each 501. ca pital (one share) from completion of the un dertaking, 5 per cent. in perpetu it y , Pay par £5O Add claims for arrears of interest during construc tion:— 4 per cent. from June, 18 49 , to Ju ne, 1851 ... 2'408 Ditto ditto, 1851, ditto , 1853 .•• 4' Promised equivalent for increase of interest during construction to 5 per cent. ... •••1'602 £580,1 SECOND PROPOSEDCONTBACT.-45,0001. per an num, instead of 200,0004 per annum in per petuity, of 50L. f r om completion, say 45,0 00 £ 11.25 200,000 Say one year's proportion of 30,000/. rent, on three-fourths of 4.000,0001. ..................... 0.5 Ditto ditto of 38,0001. ditto 13-16ths ditto"... 0.585 X 12.335 The proposed contract represents the liability of the Great Western Company, offered in exchange for the existing liability, leaving the difference contingent upon the success of the South Wales system when completed. Tns ESSEX MURDEREE.—Drory left a document in his own handwriting, addressed to the High Sheriff of Essex, and dated Monday, March 24. It states that for the grievous and dreadful offence for which Coulson took him into custody, he acknowledged that he was justly convicted; that he was about to forfeit his life according to law as an example, he hoped and trusted, to deter others from com mitting so wicked and horrid a crime ; and he prayed God that it might have that effect, and that his poor and un fortunate victim, that he so barbarously and maliciously deprived of life, was now in heaven at rest, for with God all things were possible; and might the Lord, in his goodness, have mercy on his soul. His bumble petition and request was that he (the Sheriff) would order, if possible, that the money (81. lls. 4d.) that was found on his person, and taken from him by Mr. Coulson, be given over to the poor un fortunate deceased's mother, Louisa Last, of Doddinghurst, as part restitution for the grievous injury he had done her, as he desired to die in peace with all mankind; and this would greatly oblige him, the unfortunate criminal. HORRIBLE DEATH.—A few days ago an elderly man, named Joseph Shaw, met with a shocking death at the Greenside mines, near Penrith, Cumberland. It appears that the smelting-mill had not been in use since Chrismas last, at which period it sustained considerable damage by the floods which then prevailed ; amongst other things, the reservoir being totally washed away. The reservoir has since been rebuilt, and such other repairs done as had been rendered ne cessary. Shaw, the person referred to, was engaged in put ting the machinery forward again, but, finding it not work properly, he commenced an examination into the cause. While doing so he, unfortunately, approached too near the small wheels, and his clothes becoming entangled in them, he was drawn into the machinery, and literally torn to pieces in less than a minute. He has left a widow and seven chil dren to lament hie melancholy death. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, March 27. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the Wool sack at Five o'clock. COUNTY COURTS. _ The Duke of NEWCASTLE presented several peti tions against Papal aggression from places in Notting hamshire ; also a petition praying fur a further exten sion . of the jurisdiction of county courts to Chancery cases. Lord BROUGHAM supported the prayer of the peti tion, inasmuch as the present constitution of the Court of Chancery amounted to an absolute denial of justice in cases in which the amount of litigation was less than 5001 He intended on Monday to introduce a Bill au thorising the county courts to interfere in cases which really could not go before the Court of Chancery. Lord LYNDHURST had, by the orders which he had issued, saved the suitors in Chancery 50,000 i. a year. Lord BROUGHAM could bear testimony to the suc cess of the exertions of his Noble and Learned Friend in the diminution of the eoutt fees. FOREIGN REFUGEES. Lord LYNDHUTtS - I. l rOst 7 tc; draw the attention of their Lordships to what he called the reprehensible con duct of certain foreigners in this country. This country had always extended hospitality to foreign refugees, but it was the duty of those refugees to abstain from any hostile aggressions against foreign powers. There was in this city an association styling themselves the Central National Italian Committee, composed of persons expelled from Rome after the insurrection. These persons had opened a loan in this country for the purpose of carrying into execution their pernicious designs of establishing a Republic in Italy, and they issued shares for this purpose, signed by Mazrlni and other persons. It was quite obvious that this was a breach of the obligation they incurred when they came here to seek protection from our laws. He was not so weak as to imagine that much money would be raised for this loan in this coun try, but he believed money had been raised on this loan in Paris and in Italy. It was certain this loan was ad vertised in this country, and he called the attention of the Government to 'the subject ; and the tolerance of these proceedings could not but draw upon us the suspicions of foreign Governments. In ad dition to this society there was another, styling itself the Central Democratic European Committee. It was formed for the avowed purpose of exciting insurrection in Europe, and had ad dressed a proclamation to its partizans exciting them to insurrection; in that insurrection they procured the zeal of the insurgents at Vienna and Milan, and the parties to this proclamation were Mazzini, Ledru Rollin, who as soon as he came to this country attacked the eountry which had afforded him hospitality in the most malignant terms, and also other persons well known in the Polish and German insurrections. There was also another committee to which ho wished to draw attention, it was the Central Committee of Hungarian Refu gees, at the head of this committee was an offi cer named Klapka, who, at the conclusion of the Hungarian war, commanded at: Comorn. That committee had addressed the Hungarian soldiers in Italy in the most shocking terms, endeavouring to induce those soldiers to rebel against Austria. Several of those persons had insulted the house of Austria in the most atrocious manner.—(Hear, hear.) Ha was sure the Government must be most anxious to put an end to these unwarrantable proceedings. What remonstrances may have been used en the part of the Austrian Government must be best known to the members of that Government themselves; but he de sired to know what steps they intended to adopt to put a stop to this scandal. He should recommend the renewal of the Act which was allowed to expire last year. If the Government were armed with the power they had under that Act the knowledge of that fact would be sufficient to put a stop to their proceedings. He made these ob servations with no unfriendly feeling to the Government; his only object was to point out the best mode of pre serving unimpaired the obligations which we had entered into with foreign countries. Earl GREY regretted that he had not been aware of the intention of the Noble and Learned Lord to bring this subject before the House. Had he been so, he would have placed himself in communication with his Noble Friend the Secretary for the Foreign Department, and his Right Honourable Priced the Secretary for the Home Department, whose attention he knew had been directed to the subject, and who were anxiously watching their proceedings. He understood the Noble Lord considered that there was no remedy except the renewal of ►he Act of 1848, but he would remind their Lordships that these powers were asked for and granted solely to ensure the safety of this country, and that for no other purpose should that power bo exercised. As to whether those powers should be exercised for any other purpose he would not now express an opinion; but he would say that nothing but the most flagrant and urgent necessity would justify the Parliament in granting, or the Go vernment in accepting, such additional powers. Lord LYNDHURST was satisfied with the explana tion. The Earl of ABERDEEN thought the Noble Earl ought to have expressed his disapprobation of these proceedings, because out of doors great doubt was entertained on the subject. It would be satisfactory to the different powers of Europe to have a declaration of disapprobation from this Government. Earl GREY felt humiliated in being called on in that manner by the Noble Earl.—(Loud cheers.) It was clear that strangers accepting refuge in this countryhad no right to abuse that hospitality for purposes sueh as that alluded to by the Noble and Learned Lord, and he thought that when he said the attention of his Noble and Right Hon. Friend had been directed to the subject that their Lordships would understand that the Government distinctly disapproved of the proceedings to which the Noble and Learned Lord had alluded. THE CENSUS. The Bishop of OXFORD presented a petition from a body of clergymen in the diocese of Oxford, complaining of their being called upon to answer certain questions contained in the papers issued from the Registrar-General's office, in con nexion with the census. The questions referred to the num ber of persons attending churches, the number of scholars attending national and Sunday schools, and other points of a similar nature. The petitioners objected to these queries being issued-1, because replies would fail to be made to them in many instances; 2, because any replies which might be made must necessarily be vague and incorrect ; 3, because the general result must be conducive to the propagation of error rather than truth; 4, be cause the incorrect information thus obtained would be made available to the prejudice of the great interests over which the ministers of the Church were bound to watch. The returns of the census must be sent in by Monday next, and therefore no time should be lost in con veying to the clergy an indication of the opinion of that House as to whether they should reply to the queries which had been put to them or not. An opportunity had been af forded him of consulting many of his brother prelates on this subject, and they were unanimously of opinion that the effect of answering the queries would be what the petitioners stated. The subject was alluded to in their Lordships' House a few days since; and, in consequence of what passed on that occasion, another paper had been issued from the Registrar-General's office, stating that no person was bound under a penalty to answer the queries objected to. It ap peared to him, however, that this was not all that should be done. It was necessary to intimate that answers to the queries were not expected at all. Mr. Canning once ob served that nothing was so fallacious as facts except sta tistics. if that remark were true, generally, how much more closely would it apply to such garbled stat►stics as must be obtained in answer to the proposed queries. Authentic in formation was only attainable when demanded under a pe nalty. Under these circumstances, he hoped that Ministers would intimate that answers to the objectionable queries would not now be insisted on, and, if the information sought for should continue to be thought requisite, an enactment might be passed previously to the taking of the next census which would render it imperative on clergymen and others to answer the queries intended to elicit it. If consulted by the clergy of his diocese as to the course they ought to pur sue, he should be inclined to advise them not to answer the queries, and yet he was unwilling to place himself in an an tagonistic position towards the Government in this matter, and to seem desirous of thwarting efforts which could only originate in good intentions. Earl GRANVILLE believed that the public expectation would be disappointed if the Government were not to attempt to obtain statistical information respecting spiritual and secular education. At the same time it had been thought right that the public should be distinctly informed that replies to the queries could not be enforced by any legal obligation. Beyond that point the Government did not feel justified in going. One observation only he would make in reference to what had fallen from the Right Rev. Prelate, namely, that if all other bodies of persons in the State, except the clergy, returned the information which was required from them, it would not redound to the credit of the latter. The Bishop of SALISBURY said there was no objec tion on the part of the clergy to give the fullest informa tion in their power upon any matter which came under their supervision ; but they alleged, and he thought truly, that returns which it was left to the voluntary act of indivi duals to make or withhold could never present results upon which any dependence could be placed. It was certain that in so large a body as the clergy a considerable number would object to make the returns called for, and he confessed that he participated in the objection. The result would be, that only inaccurate and partial information would be obtained. Earl FITZ WILLIAM was understood to say, that clergy men ought not to be called upon to state the number of per sons attending their churches, that being a point on which it would be b atter for them to be ignorant than well-informed in some cases. A RIGHT REY. PRELATE ( whose title was not known in the gallery) also expressed his objection to the manner adopted for obtaining the information sought for. The Marquis of BREADALBANE said that the ministers of the Church of Scotland once voluntarily returned answers to similar queries submitted to them by Sir J. Sinclair. The Bishop of OXFORD remarked, that in the case re ferred to by the Noble Marquis there were no conflicting In terests to prevent the return of correct information. ..11 England the case was different, and prejudices existed whi p h were likely to mislead those who were called upon to give in formation. THE PAPAL AGGRESSION. Earl FITZWILLIAM, having presented some petitions against Papal aggression, gave notice that be would to-mor row present more peltions of a like nature, and would take that opportunity of making some observations which seemed to be called for by th e p resen t state of the attempt to legis late on the subject. Lord BROUGHAM would beg his Noble Friend—only that he knew it would be vain to do so —not to carry his threat into execution. He had well hoped—as they said in would only cause assure Chancery—that their Lordships would have got over the time until after the Easter recess in a Sort of quiet—he wa s afraid only a tetnporary quiet respecting this subject. Any thing more hateful to him than the whole controversy which had been going on for weeks, if not for months, he had never ) He could known, and he should fail in attempting to describe how deeply he aufiered from it. He had derived some consolation from the prospect of an intermission of the controversy until after Easter, and therefore he would entreat his Noble Friend not to mar his hopes, if he did not know that it was more difficult to prevail upon his Noble Friend than hisal m o N s o t b l any e F r o i e t h n e i r_p t person.—( to persist more firmly in his intention—that the whole II him prayed for a respite, as regarded this question, until after °use h . — though e a l a re u d gl i l t . the Easter recess, .and, if his Noble Friend w ould conotit to appoint any time for addressing their Lordships after that period, he would promise that he should have the whole night to himself without any interference from him.—(A laugh.) Lord WO DELIOUSE presented a petition against Papal aggression. Lord BEDESDALE presented a petition in favour of ex tending the jurisdiction of county courts. Tho report on the County Courts Extension Bill was brought up. Lord BEAUMONT suggested that the Bill should be re committed. Lord BROUGHAM had no objection to the recommittal of the Bill when it should have been reprinted. The Bill was then ordered to be reprinted, as amended, and to be recommitted. AD MINISTRATION OF CHARITIES IN ENGLAND, &c. The Bishop of OXFORD stated that he had given notice to her Majesty's Government of a question touching a very important subject, namely, whether they intended, and when, to bring in a measure for securing the due administration of charities in England and Wales. Since he had entered the House he had been shown a draught of a Bill which it was intended to introduce into this House, for the purpose of re gulating charitable trusts ; and he wished to know at what period of the session the Government would bring forward the measure? The LORD CHANCELLOR replied that the Bill would be introduced within a week from the present time. Certain returns relating to licences and registrations under the Catholic Relief Act of 1829 were ordered, on the motion of the Earl of WINCHILSEA. Theia Lordships then adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMONS, March 27. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Mr. PONSONDY, the now ➢Member for Dungarvon, tock the oaths and his seat. METROPOLITAN SEWERS COMPANY. Mr. Alexander Greig appeared at the bar of the House, and presented the accounts of the Metropolitan Sewers Company. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were then read a third time:— Dewsbury Gas—Downham Market, &c., Drainage— Laird's Patent—Millthrop and Levens Turnpike Road— Newington St. Mary Parish—Reading Cemetery Com pany—Whitby Waterworks—Scarborough Gas. PETITIONS. Petitions were presented against the returns for Ayles• bury and St. Alban's, which were referred to the Com mittee on Elections. A great number of petitions were presented' against Papal aggression. Colonel LLOYD WATKINS presented a petition from the members of the congregation of Wesleyan Methodists, in the town of flay, expressing their indig nation at the recent Papal aggression, and praying that the most stringent measures may be adopted for repel ling it, and that the recovery of penalties to be attached to such offences may not be dependent on the sole dis cretion of the law officers of the Crown. Mr. COWAN presented a petition from Edinburgh, praying that the Bill now before the House, for extend ing the franchise in counties, be extended to Scotland. A number of petitions were also presented against the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill. Mr. AGLIONBY presently petitions from different places in Middlesex praying for a compulsive enfran chisement of copybolds. Sir DE LACY EVANS presented several petitions from Westminster in favour of the Sunday Trading Bill. Sir B. HALL presented a petition from Marylebono against the same Bill. NEW WRIT. Mr. R. PALMER moved for a new writ for the county of Somerset, in the place of Sir A. Hood, deceased. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR DEMERARA. Mr. HUME, in presenting a petition from 6,31, 1 i inha bitants of Demerara, agreed to ou the 9th of NoVember last, and praying for an Elective Council and House of Assembly, with extension of the suffrage to give a full, free, and direct popular representation, read several ex tracts from the document in order to show that the peti tioners had been arbitrarily deprived of representative government, and the effect of that deprivation was to largely increase the island's expenses. Having moved that the petition, which was guaranteed as to its validity by the residents in the several parishes, be printed, the lion. Gentleman stated that when the printed copy was in the hands of Members he should found a motion upon it, which he would bring on i on an early day. Mr. T. BARING presented a petition, numerously signed by the shipowners of Groat Britain, complaining of the difference between the duties levied on British ships in Spanish ports, and Spanish ships in British ports, and stating that under present circumstances British vessels were unable to compete with Spanish ves sels for freight. Mr. Packe, Mr. Thornely, Mr. Lockhart, and several other Members presented a number of petitions against the Papal aggression. Mr. %V. FAGAN presented petitions from Cork and Kinsale, praying for the abolition of ministers' money. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. REYNOLDS gave notice that to-morrow be should ask the First Lord of the Treasury at what period of the present session he proposed to introduce a Bill for the abolition of ministers' money in Ireland. Lord NAAS gave notice that, on the first possible day after Easter, he should renew his motion of last year with regard to the spirit duties. Mr. STUART gave notice that to-morrow he should move for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the Act for abbreviating Acts of Parliament. Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY gave notice that on an early day after Easter he should move that the pre sent differential duties imposed on all foreign grown sugar imported for home consumption shall be conti nued for five years from the month of July, 1851. COPPER COINAGE OF IRELAND. _ Mr. PAGAN said the copper coinage of Ireland was very much worn and depreciated, so much so indeed, that in the south of Ireland the manufacturers bad been com pelled to adopt a copper medium of their own, and he wished therefore to know whether it was the intention of Government to order a new coinage ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, as he had only received notice of the llon. Gentleman's question within the last half-hour he was not in a posi tion to give a direct answer to it. He had never heard before that the coinage of Ireland was in a depre ciated state, nor had he received any com plaints on the subject. If it were true, as the Honourable Gentleman stated, that parties were manufacturing money on their own account, be need only remind him that they rendered themselves amenable to the law. DISTURBANCE IN THE COUNTY OF DOWN. Mr. ROCHE wished to put a question to the Secre tary for Ireland with reference to an occurrence which had lately taken place in the county of Down. It appeared that a gentleman residing at Banbridge hav ing occasion to take proceedings against some defaults ing tenants, took with him a sheriff, together with one policeman and one bailiff, for the purpose of accom plishing his object. On reaching the spot the people rose en masse ; they were all armed, and several shots were deliberately fired. The one police man and the one bailiff, thinking discretion the better part of valour, speedily eloped, leaving the gen tlemen arel sheriff at the mercy of the people.—(A laugh.) Now he wished to knew whether the repute which had gone abroad on the subject was correct, and whether the Right Hon. Gentleman had receivee any eommunicatiun relative to it from Ireland? He thought that a process against tenants should nut be issued by the sheriff without taking with him a sufficient force to overawe the misguided populace. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said he had received a report from the constabulary with reference to the trausect.eni which he believed h a d h a pp e n e d a t the place slim' e d to by the Hon. Gentleman; but these reports wtereogtehesed rally of a confidential character. He had time to look into the report, but if be founhdanat°ni,oyi3a_ret of it of a nature wnich he could lay beforeatb_e. us would have no objection to lay it o n Ow l : . IMPOSITION BY THE AMERIC TURE OF PROTECTIVE DUTIES N OIs E I G R I O S N L . A- Mr. BOOKER asked the President d oa r ny th i e tifo ß r o m a u r t d io c n f Trade if the Government had re. and if they would lay it before and extent of increase in the protective thceetlius e d. u o t f ies the proposed e her articles of British to be levied on the import into the United States of all kinds of iron, and on various ot exempt from duty ? produce and inanafacturesd new been passed by the Legis- He believed a resolution 11 m i city of 127 to 54, imposing lathe Assembly, by a —9-9,°rticles which had been duties on on iron and othe_ruty, a nd as this was a staaset viously exempted from to d the commercial community, he of great importance o hoped the Right lloo.esGtieonnt.Lem(Haleiazuld have no objec tion to answer bi e !, ( l,,, RE replied that the Government Mr. LABOUUsise ispatch from Sir B. Bulwer since bad not receiv,ecdotaonsyrirc: the day on which the accounts the 26th of I. he ne wspapers alleged the resolution in published in have h been passed, and therefore he was not question to . of official information to enable him to give in possession an answer to t he lion. Gentlemen's ques ti on . BORNEO, SARAWAK, AND LABUAN. Mr. le „ st- TA jes, asked Lord P a l merston, whether Si r Jam©s B r ooke still held the appointm en t s o f h er Ma jesty's Commissioner and Consul-G e n e r a l t o th e S u l tan anclindependentchiefs of B orneo? Lord pALMERSTON said ho still hold that appoint ment. Air. HUME also asked the Under-Secretary for the colon i es , whether Sir James Brooke still held the ap pointment of Governor of Labuan? Mr. HAWES replied in the affirmative. Mr. HUME also asked Lord Palmerston whether he had any official information that the President of the United States, through Mr. Ba.lestier, a special envoy, had recognised Raja Brooke as the independent Sove reign of Sarawak, and whether the territory of Sarawak had ever been acknowledged as an independent state by her Majesty's Government, or in what view the territory of Sarawak was to be considered by British or foreign subjects? Lord PALIIERSTON said, it appeared from the information he had received from Sir J. Brooke that a proposal was made to him on the part of the President of the United States for a treaty of commerce between the United States and Sarawak, but that treaty had not yet been concluded, Sir J. Brooke waiting, as he be lieved, until his arrival in England, when ho would consult her Majesty's Government on the subject. With regard to the government of Sarawak, the British Government bad no knowledge of the relations existing between Sir James Brooke and the Sultan ef Boineo, but this be could state, that as far as the British Go vernment was concerned itwas an independent state, and this country had no claim upon it. THE CENSUS FOR 1851. Mr. GOULBURN wished to ask the Ri g ht Hon. BE. ronet the Home Secretary, whether he would give an assurance that, in the cases of clergymen who refused to answer the questions as to tithes and income contained in the papers issued for the taking of the census, Govern ment would not seek for the information from other quarters. Sir G. GREY declined to give any F uck assurance. DESIGNS EXTENSION BILL Mr. RICARDO put a question to the President of the Board of Trade as to how many parsons it was expected would take advantage of the Designs Extension Bill? Mr. LABOUCHERE said that not having had notice of the quesion, ho could not answer it with exactness► but he could say that is great number of persons both at home and abroad were looking forward to the passing of this measure with great anxiety. Mr. RICARDO said ho would repeat the quastion to morrow. SAVINGS BANKS. Mr. HENRY HERBERT wished to inquire when it was the intention of the Government to bring in a Btil for the alteration of the law respecting saving banks. savi During the last session an admission bad been made by the First Lord of the Treasury that some suc h law was absolutely necessary, but no intimation had t his session been given of the intention to lay such a Bill upon the table. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said if the husineas of the I that a Bill was in and l a ous T e er p y roc than it had hitherto done he might be able to bring the e e ded forwarde little state, matter before the House before the end of the session. Mr. H. HERBERT begged to give notice that unless a Bill was shortly laid on the table by the Government faster he should feel it to bo his duty to introduce the subject to the House, with a view of improving the law with respect to savings banks, and especielry with the object of relieving the depositors who had beeu reduced to des titution he the failure of savings banks in Ireland. FREEDOM - ASPERITY ae EXPRESSION DURING THE C A THOLE) DEBATE. Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY wish ed to ask whe'' ther it was competent to the House to reconsider the resolution with respect to the freedom of debate. Bit object was to ascertain whether there w ere no means or preventing that asperity of language, which had beet: indulged in during the late debate, and stoppiDg tbs. which was felt to be not only insulting to Meriabers or that House collectively, but also individually.—(Cee"*) The SPEAKER said that the freedom of debste was established on the very law o n which the basisthere of the House itself was established, and, fore, every Member was entitled to s p eak as freely as was consistent with the privileges which those laws conferred. It was, however, unquestionable that un7 necessary strength of language might be e r r s epr co o ec /Ted g to either by one Member or several Membl - tively, moving that words likely to be insultin one or more Members shou ld be taken d_oewrn and expunged from the debate.—(Loud cries of ' hear.") lie had himself observed that terms of unnectese nary asperity had been used in the late debate, bu_ . h trusted and believed that they would not be renevred The subject then dropped. IMPROVEMENT OF TOWNS (IRELAND) BILL. In reply to Mr. REYNOLDS, add Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that he did intend to more names to the Committee of this Bill. THE BUDGET. In reply to Sir DE LACY EVANS, a to- Lord J. RUSSELL intimated that he wou ld state morrow when he would bring on the Budget. STEAM TO INDIA. not ice, to Viscount JOCELYN then rose, pursuant to noti • f the move fur a Committee to inquire into the question i o sod existing steam communications between Englana India; and to report whether any improvements may , be made in the conduct of those commanicationao previous to the grant of a further line.contract.t any company proposing to carry on that Likewise to consider the subject of eteven couuntair_ tions, having for its object a line or lines connectltDge England, India, and Australia; and to report to House the most fitting mode in which such cowinuulae tion may be effected, with due care to econonsYcel with advantage to the public interests. The Noble Isui stated that ho introduced a similar motion last sea' sion, but since then the subject had beconae interesting in many points of view. The goes' coo . tion was one of some importance to the try, and he much regretted that it had not been canes up by the Government. There were enaDY motionI:I derations which induced him to bring this forward, but the principal one was this. • till The contracts with the Peninsular and t he company would expire in 1853, which d 01° wou o l giv° 6l Government an opportunity of changing r our en tirel y Indian better means of commuuication with ° I Indian empire. He made this mo tion on public grounds; he had no hostility to any 06'41'wer1 companies ; on the contrary, he thought they• much indebted to them for tho accommodation whiu.". their services had given to the public, and for the and energy with which they conducted their trade. By the resolution of last session, it was agreed thut route of steam communication should be establishe between Singapore and Australia, and the Peninsular and Oriental Company had stated their rea dines to ex pend 5,0001. in the settling of the route, but they thogm that they ought not to be tied down to any regulations which the Indian Government might choose to lay devil); and he conceived that they were perfectly .right, {or, in his opinion, nothing could be more injurious mono,the public interest than the vesting t he e s poly of a great social or comm advantage in the hands of a great and powerful perV, such as that constituted by the East India Company. 11 was well known that the Peninsular and Oriental Stesh l Company had always been desirous of o btain' ing the possession of the route between Su! S and Bombay. That route would have been of 01 greatest benefit to theta, but the grant of it bad always been frustrated by the necessity for the s ervices of the Indian navy. Far be it from him , depreciate that navy, for he was aware how be nefici" its services had been both in India and Chi"; but it should nevertheless be recollected that vessels of that navy had not altogether superseded the nec essity for the employment of vessels in her Majesty's service. The purpose then alleged fur the exclusion of the vessels of the Peninsular and Oriental Steam COllici pany was not served, while on the other ban it was abundantly evident that if the Indian navY excluded from this line, the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company would be enabled to em ploy larger and more powerful vessels, and thus not only increase their speed, but also render the com munisation with India more regular and certain. (H is LordshiP then read extracts from dispatches from the Earl of Ripon, when at the head of the Board of Control, and from those of the authorities in India , in order to show that this change would, if effected. ace °l3/- plish the objects ho had in view.) He we. aware that some prepositions had been made by company formed last year, but he could not say that t the WI could be entertained, and therefore ho thought tha chief object to which the Committee should direct its attention was in the first place to the establishment 01 the routes and the depots to be formed for steam corn nanniccition between this country and Australia. By the existing, arrangements the mails left England on the 7th of every month, and reached Suez on the 20 h of every month, from which place they were forwarded to dndi la. The existing arrangements with the Peninsular a would . w ental Company was to last for seven years, and e xpire in January , 1853 . The tota l ex p ense of the lino was .265,0001 , of which 811111 the Indian Government pro vided 125,00111, and the home Government 140,000/. The q uestion now was, when the existing arrangements ceased, what course should they pursue in reference to future ar rangements. The Peninsular and Oriental Steam Com pauy wished to get into their handas the line be tween India and Egypt, but hought nothing would be more dangerous than hesfr om tablishing a great mex' o nopoly by this company, wic, the extent and pease of the operations, could not be open to competition. The conclusion which her Majesty's Government had come to, when the question was put before them in 1845, was to leave that line in the hands of the East India ComparlYs In the course of the last few days various compl a i n ts hat , conduct edm reached him There of the mode in i which that comtn . = cation woreinsufficient means of c ommercia l a co rr mmunication, and passengers complained of insufficient an gements for their convert. Be did not, , however , at tach much import n. It had b importance to complaints of the latter descrip ti een stated that the cost of carrying nassell gers was greater than on other lines. That should be in quired ' into, as it could not be cured by competition. There was another complaint by the Ben oil Chamber of Commerce, and they required 6 greater speed and more regularity in the arrival of the vessels at Bombay. The next po i n t into whic h h e proposed the Com m itt ee s h ou ld go, was to consider the subject of steam communication between India and AUStril• lia. Upon that subject also he thought that a Com mittee of that House would be the best mode of inquiry. Ile should regret hasty and unwise contracts. H e did net w ish to prejudge the question, but he thought inquiry.by a C°!'" mittee would have a beneficial effect in giving information con to the public at large, and in coming to some decisive clusions upon the subject. Lord NAAS admitted that the Noble Lord bade made out an excellent case for inquiry as to the first ch of the a motion, but with regard to the second branch he was afraid that the proposed mode of inquiry would have the effect of depriving the Australian colonies for some time of the benefie t of steam communication. Last year the Chancellor of th Exchequer had assured them that no time would be lost in carrying into effect the project submit ted to the Government _ on the subject. The presen t session was far advanced and the Australian colonies were as far from obtaining the cow:. pletion of that project as they were w firs. hen steps were L taken on it in 1844. In 1844 the Legislative Council et Sydney had passed resolutions on the subject, and in 184 0 , the committee of the council recomme nded that the s um ot 6,000/. should be voted for establish in g steam counniTrean tion between Singapore and Sydney. In 1847 thseiset 8 j the was much agitated in this country , and inl mails con tract for the sailing packets in carrying the bad been to Australia expired. Up to that time thereen this a tolerably regular mode of communication betweis. country and the Australian colonies. The G o vernment 11 0 declined to renew that contract, in the belief et some con be entered into. tract for steam communication will speedily From that date up to the present time no r egular comrauni, cation had existed between this country and Australia, aud the result was, that the colonists had been obliged to pay f t ! much higher rate of postage for letters, newspapers, ant cottoned had expired, reviews. Shortly after the contract m ob 11' Government issued notices for tenders for steam commuoic Indian and Australian. tion, and one was sent in from the Steam-packet Company for e 6,00 e/.• whic hthat the Government accepted. It turned out afterwards this company n t , Bl 2‘ not a single shilling, of capitel, and that for six mon i during which they were a llowed to hold the contra ct '. they had o ut laid down a single steamer. Indeed•:; the end of that time the company was dissols Act. In 1850 notice had beet, under the Winding up . l, issued by the Admiralty for fresh tenders, and not considered satisfe ctor y , the was now before the Goveri ina ,c In answer to the question f his the other day, lki n Honourable Gentl eman opposite seemed to admit that etaPf tender uow before them for performin g the service of Tres communicat i on with Australia free of expense uto the Trtesc, sury, and for the postage of letters alone, WAS vi tory. He bad been told that the Peninsular and Ore Company had offered in their tender to establish ate yids" communication between Singapore and Sydne y, pro _ they were a llowed to charge a shilling posts on ev e ry letter from this co ntry to Sydney. His object in m oving 1 : 0 , amendment was merely, by transposing the parts of thsetrol tion, to ensure the consideration of the questioa ()colic communication with Australia without any delav• ' A rt e n 10- ever the report of the Committee might be on the huh 0 of the question, nothing could be done in it for two t ll/ CVAt'IACt. 6etWl the cPWPAPY Vis hi. 3 vi mitte, Mr. better colon' thoug order be of • ritius states Mr tion. Thl the w chide Sir large of the he rn went north conte save 811 quire Dig curie And Prop' the Lc Pam Bert( give at tl opin him. Statl than eert( divi! wi3l mot trail ot a pos , the Wa: