The Sun. — London, England, 1850-02-16 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 15. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the solicitor to the Fishmongers' Company, praying that their Lordships would permit the officers of the House to give evidence at a trial about to take place in the Court of Common Pleas. On the motion of the NOBLE and LEARNED LORD, the prayer of the petition was granted. The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD also presented a petition from the Kirk Session of Lanarkshire against Post-office work on a Sunday. The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE presented a petition from some place in the county of Down against the national system of education in Ireland. BANKRUPTCY CONSOLIDATION BILL. Lord BROUGHAM postponed the second reading of this Bill, and explained that it W 23 owing to the altera tions introduced by the Commons into the Bill of last year that the failure of justice at the Central Criminal Court had recently taken place.. CRIMINAL LAW CONSOLIDATION BILL. _ .. - The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD RE:O postponed the second reading of this Bill. IMPROVEMENT OF ACTS OF PARLIAMENT BILL. The Noun; and LEARNED LORD then gave notice that he should move the second reading of the Improvement of Acta of Parliament Bill on Monday. THE BARQUE INDIAN. The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL asked if the Govern ment had received any information of the cruelties a4eged to have been committed on the female emigrants on board the barque, Indian, during her voyage to Adelaide. Earl GREY said that no official communication had been received by the Government on the subject, but it appeared from the usual organs of public intel ligence, that it had been alleged that most disgraceful scenes had taken place, and that the colonial authorities had instituted an investigation, and the Noble Earl might rest assured that that investigation would be pursued with rigour, and that if parties had been guilty of any outrages they would be punished with the utmost rigour of the law. He admitted that cases of abuse had occasionally occurred on board emigrant ships carrying out females, but in ge neral the conduct of the officers of those ships had been exemplary. In every case in which abuse had occurred, when it had come to the knowledge of the Government, the Emigration Commissioners had been instructed to enf )rce the exaction of penalties against the owners of those ships, and to prosecute the delinquents. He could assure their Lordships that no efforts were spared to guard against the occurrence of abuses on board female emigrant ships. EDUCATION-MANAGING CLAUSES. Lord STANLEY asked if the adoption of the manag ing clauses proposed by the Privy Council as the condi tion of receiving aid from the State was applicable to existing schools, or only to schools hereafter to be erected? If only to schools hereafter to be erected, the extent of the injustice complained of by the Church would be greatly diminished. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that there was no rule adopted Which debarred the Committee of the Privy Council from considering fairly any application which might be made to the few existing schools fur an annual allowance. ENCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND). The Earl of GLENGALL moved for a return from the Commissioners of the Court of Encumbered Estates, Ireland, stating the number of petitions lodged in their court to this date; the name of each matter, the rental of the property in each case proposed to be sold, and the gross amount of encumbrances stated to be chargeable thereon. Property to the value of nearly two millions had been already brought under the jurisdiction of the Encumbered Estates Court, which had been described as a court neither of equity or law, and those estates had been ordered to be sold, and would be sold, it was said, if the court could obtain seven years' purchase for them. This was a course of procee ling which would bo entirely ruinous to the owners of these encumbered estates.—(" Hear, hear," from the Earl of Mountcashel.) It was clear that such a course must be most unjust, and he he hoped the Government would not peanit those sales to go on. He not press the subject at present; but perhaps next week the Noble Marquis would give him some infermation on the subject. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE believed that the Commissioners had taken the greatest possible precau tions to prevent an improper sacrifice of property. He had no objection to grant the returns if the Noble Earl would consent to a verbal alteration in his motion. The Earl of GLENGALL thought that Government was bound to take every possible precaution to protect the property of the gentlemen of Ireland. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE assured the Noble Earl that there was no desire whatever to depreciate the value of landed property in Ireland. Lord BEAUMONT feared that the motion of the Noble Earl would produce the evil which he deprecated, because the publication ef these returns would encourage the opinion that an enormous quantity of land was at once to be thrown upon the market, and this would keep down buildings. He could never suppose that the Court would ever throw into the market more land than would create proper competi tion. If they were to - do so some steps ought to be taken to prevent them from proceeding in a course unjust alike t ) the landlord and his creditor. Ile firmly believed that the value cf land would very soon be raised to nearly its former amount in Ireland as well as in England, and he did not doubt but that the Court would defer sales to that period. Lord CAMPBELL hoped the observations of his Noble Friend would go forth to the world, and ho did not doubt but that they could raise the price cf mortgaged land in Ireland to a high rate. Ile believed the Commissioners had exercised their discre tion. in a manner not only creditable to themselves, but advent Lgeons to the owners of encumbered estates, and to their mortgagees. After a few words from the Earl of GLENGALL and the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, the motion was agreed to, and their Lordships adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 15. The ' SPEAKER took the Chair a few minutes before Four o'clock. EDINBURGH AND ABERDEEN RAILWAY. Mr. COWAN presented a petition from the Edin burgh and Aberdeen Railway Company. praying that the period for the second reading of the Bill may be ex tended. SUNDAY LABOUR IN TIIE POST-OFFICE. Mr. MACDONALD presented a petition from Bali nasloe praying f)r the cessation of Sunday labour in the Post-office. Several other similar petitions from places in Scotland were presented. ATTORNEYS' CERTIFICATES. Mr. HENRY presented a petition from attorneys' in Bury, praying for a repeal of the duty on attorneys' certificates. AGRICULTURAL PROTECTION. Mr. CUMMING BRUCE presented a petition from Ross in favour (If agricultural protection. PRIVATE BILLS.—SECOND READINGS. The tollowing private Bills were read a second time, and ordered to be committed: — Dundee and Perth and Aberdeen Railway Junction. Liverpool, Crosby, and Southport Railway (Deviations, Enlargement of Station, &c.) Liverpool Docks. Newcastle upon Tyne Improvement, Amendment of Acts, and New Streets. York and North Midland Railway. MARRIAGE WITH A DECEASED WIFE'S SISTER. Sir R. INGLIS presented a petition from Kelso against the Bill for legalizing marriage with a deceased wife's sister; also petitions from places in Surrey, Whit burn, in the county of Durham, and Middlesex, praying for the cessation of labour on Sundays in the Post-office. KIDDERMINSTER ELECTION. A petition was presented from Kidderminster, com plaining of the return to the writ for the last election for Kidderminstor. COUNTY FINANCIAL BOARDS. Mr. BROWN presented a petition from Ormskirk praying for the establishment of county financial boards. MINISTERS' MONEY IN IRELAND. . Mr. MONSELL presented a petition from Limerick complaining of the impost called ministers money. MALT DUTY. Mr. SOTHERON presented a petition from Middle sex praying for the repeal of the malt duty. RETURNS FROM THE BOARD OF TRADE. Mr. DISRAELI rose to ask a question of the Presi dent of the Board of Trade of which he had yesterday given notice. It related to the returns of the department over which he presided, and he wished for some explana tion of the reason of the delay of the publication of the monthly returns. At the present moment, in the middle of the month of February, the returns for the month of December were not yet published. There was also another point which, if the Right Hon. Gentleman had been in his place yesterday, he should have asked him, and that was why the delay had taken place in the cir culation of the summary, as it WU called. There was also another point on which be wished for some satis factory explanations. He spoke of the digested re turns of the Board of Trade, which were called tables relating to the revenue and commerce of the country. The returns which had been presented to the House re specting the trade and commerce of the country only went up to the year 1847, and he wished to know whether the Government could adopt any means by which returns of such great importance could be brought up to a more recent period. Returns of the number of spirit-shops i n D u bli n , o f t h e num b er o f t em perance coffee-shops in London, and a series of returns of the number of brothels in Bristol, Manchester, and other cities had been g i ven , an d he w i shed to know whether the Government thought these of more importance than the returns he had mentioned. Mr. LABOUCIIERE said the lion. Member was P under a misapprehensio n i n sup osoiegeetbattbatinieusesurael-. turns had been presented at a later period exception, beer. n, Ever since 1335 they had, with on ly n laid on the table of the House on the 10th xc besides, did net February.dp The presentation of the returns, entirely upon the Board of Trade, becau se they had to wait until the different departments sent in th e neces saryt information to make them up. To prove that there was no unnecessary delay at the Board of Trade, he might mention that it was only yesterday (the 14th) that the Excise returns, which were comprised in the paper he had just laid on the table, were received at the Board of Trade. The lion. Gentleman proceeded to t why *..W Thy the digezt account of the Board of Trade taivrHoorn to the end cf the year 1847. It was quite Un - e'llaat it only came down to the end of 1847, but inforatition, which had now been presented to the H.. ° I I o•c 9 mmons fur a great many yelra before therstututteab depart men t of the Board of Trade was in ire see • in existence lad always been one year more in arrear 1 s than it was now.—(Hear, hear.) The statistical department of the Board of Trade, therefore, had suc ceeded in abridging the period at which this return was forthcoming by one year. The Hon. Gentleman was pro bably aware that this return was divided into two parts, being comprised under the heads of section A and section B. The latter had already been delivered ; the other, which related to the trade and finance of the country, would be ready id a short time, perhaps it would be on the table of the House in a fortnight, and it would bring that por tion of the account down to the end of the year 1848. The Customs and every other department of the country had always evinced an anxious desire to furnish these important statistics to the House at the earliest possible moment, and the Honour able Gentleman and the House might rely upon the Board of Trade delivering them in immediately after they had had an opportunity of testing their correctness. CONTRACTS OF SUPPLIES FOR TETF, COLONIES. Mr. SCOTT wished to inquire of the Under-Secretary of the Treasury whether any contracts had been entered into by the Government for the supply of the colonies, and whether any dispatches, had been received with re spect to such contracts ? Mr. HAYTER said that no such contracts had been entered into, and that no dispatches had been received, but that as soon as they came to hand, if such dispatches were received, they should be laid upon the table. LAW OF LANDLORD AND TENANT. In reply to a question from Mr. CLEMENTS, it was stated that a Bill was in preparation for the amendment of the laws regulating the property between landlord and tenant. COST OF EMIGRANTS TO NEW SOUTH WALES. Mr. SCOTT wished to know whether the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary at the head of the Home Depart ment had received any returns respecting the coat of an emigrant ship, amounting to 3501., which it was de sired to draw from the funds of New South Wales, and to the expenditure of which the colony objected. Sir G. GREY said that no such returns had been re ceived, but that he expected them in a few days. The colonial fonds would not be applied to the emigration of any person convicted of 'crime. CORONERS' INQUESTS IN IRELAND. Mr. P. SCROPE rose to put a question to the Secre tary for Ireland, respecting the 590 coroners' inquests held last year in Ireland, according to the report of the Poor-law Commissioners, in which verdicts of death from want were recorded. He had to ask whether the Poor law Commissioners had made inquiry into those 590 cases, and whether they had in any one of those cases of death from want found that one single death had been occasioned by such an amount of neglect on the part of the relieving officers as to warrant them (the Poor-law Commissioners) in instituting criminal prosecutions against those parties. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that certainly it was without doubt that many persons had died in Ireland on whom the verdict cf died of want had been passed. He believed it was not the practice generally to hold in quests over persons who died in workhouses. REGISTRAR'S OFFICE (BANKRUPTCY) BILL. Mr. HENLEY wished to ask the Attorney-General a question with regard to the Bill which he had asked the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to postpone in the early part of this week. The Bill would necessarily take some time in discussing, and he wished to ask the Hon. and Learned Gentleman if he would undertake not to go on with the Bill to-night if it did not come on until late? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that be certainly would not go on with the Bill if it did nut come on be fore twelve o'clock. DANISH WAR.—RENEWAL OF BLOCKADE. Mr. SANDARS said that, as the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs was not in his place, he should put the question to the Noble Lord on Monday night; or, if he were not then present, to any Minister who might happen to be there. Mr. DISRAELI said the question of which Mr. San , dars had given notice was as follows:—" To a,,k the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affiirs, if it be true that the Danish Government has refused to renew the armistice of the 10th of July last; and, if so, whether the Noble Lord considers as a natural consequence the renewal of the blockade cf the Prussian ports of the Baltic, and the Elbe." Now he (Mr. Disraeli) would az,k the Noble Lord the First Minister whether it was the Danish Government that had refused to renew the armistice? Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the Danish Go vernment had not refused. ECCLESIASTIC AL COMMISSION. Mr. HOESMAN said that, instead of the motion of which he had given notice, he should move for the pro duction of tho proceedings of the Ecclesiastical Commis sion relative to the matLir of the secretaries. DISTIIESSED UNIONS (I REL INM-ADVANCES AND REPAYMENT OF ADVANCES. The House then went into Committee, and Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose to propose certain resolutions respecting advances and the repayment of advances to distressed unions in Ireland, and in doing so said he would endeavour to spare the Committee the necessity of going into any de'ails on the subject, and confine himself to a state meat of general views concerraing the state of Ireland, and the grounds on which the Government thought is right to propose the resolutions he was about to submit. For many years the condition of Ire land had been lamentable in many respects, but no remedy of the Legislature could be made applicable to the evils which existed. A great number of the la bouring classes in that cuuetry were in the receipt of no wages, and depending ler their livelihood upon the cultivation of smell plots of ground ; some seasons of the year they suffered great distress. which had produced much crane. Whilst entericg into the policy which of late years heal teen adopted, he would state that the failure of the potato crop and the consequent famine which had taken place, had produced evils with which the Legislature had as yet been unable to deal. An immense alteration had taken place in the state of the country, and on one hand it was no doubt gratifying to find that we no longer have, to any considerable ex tent, those outrages and murders which were formerly so prevalent, while, on the other hand there had been the greatest disposition upon the part of all persons of property, whether landlords or tenants, to preserve the lives of the great mass of the people under the pressure of an avvfa , l calamity. This change had taken place through no influence of the Legislature, but the interpo sition of the Legislature may assist the country in its present transition state. But in doing so the Legislature must always le guarded against two great dangers—one was not to impose too great burdens upon the property of Ireland, or the people might be discouraged from cultivating the soil, and the other not to assist with too much liberality Ile poor labourers who had been deprived cf their labour by the failure of the potato. Having said thus much, be would now proceed to state what he thought was a fair encouragement to hope for the future. He ha I before him the reports of a number of officers engaged under the Beard of Works in the different counties in Ireland, some including the distressed counties, and, with the exception of the county of Clare, they generally bear testimony to an increased desire on the part cf.the people to cultivate the land. With respect to two of these counties which they had heard of as being most distressed, the reports state that although there was much land untenanted, yet there would not be any great difficulty in procuring tenants at a redaction of 25 per cent. on the previous rents. He had likewise reports with regard to the fisheries, and they all gave very satisfactory accounts of the visible improvements in the country. Now, he held in his hand a return of the ex penses incurred during the four last months of last year including the months of October, November, December, and January. During October the decrease of 48,0004 during November 40,0001., during December 40,0001., and in January 7,0001; making a total of about 188,00 W. The return with respect to the relief given to persons out of doors was much the same, the whole numbers showing that the reduction of these persona was in the whole as many as 405,341 during the same period of four months.—(Hear, hear.) This was owing to various causes, for it appeared from the several reports of the secretaries of the different poor-law unions that this decrease had arisen partly from a better under standing of the principle of the poor-law, partly from a desire to decrease expenses, partly from a desire to carry the law into effect, and an acquired discrimina tion in the discovery of imposture.—(Hear, hear.) The indoor relief had been rather increased. In De cember, 1848, it amounted to 14,902/., and in 1849 it was 18,2061., being an increase of 3,294/.; but there was a decrease in the outdoor relief, in the month of De cember, amounting to 2,867/. The total indoor and out door relief had been respectively 297,918/. and 147,3971. That, certainly, so far was satisfactory, as it showed there was an improvement even in those districts which were considered the first. Now, in proceeding to consider this question, he should state that of the opinions which had been given by various persons in Ireland from whom they had received reports, there was none that was more prevalent than the state ment, that the burdens arising from the expenditure on the lean of former years now imposed such heavy cost on many unions in Ireland, ' that although they might be able to bear the burden that arose from the relief of the poor, they were not able* to sustain at the same time the repay ment of the loan. He would now state what had been the loans which had been made of late years to the unions in Ireland. Beginning with 1839, the SUM of 1,225,0001. was raised for building workhouses in Ireland, 47,000/. being allowed to be deducted from it for mismanagement in construction of the workhouses. The next public debt was for labour in the spring of 1846. The sum of 476,000/. had been advanced, of which 238,0001. was re mitted, and the other half spread over 20 half-yearly instalments. Shortly after 4,850,0001. was advanced, of which one-half was afterwards spread over 20 half yearly instalments iu a similar manner. A sum was oad vanced for temporary relieff, which only 953,000/. was the remainder had been required to be paid; remitted. In the August of fait year an additional sum was authorised to be advanced of 60,000/. The sums which were at the present time due from Ireland were—first, 1,131,000/e —cm ad ditional sum of 100,0001.—a sent advanced for work houses 158,0001,—a sum advanced the 9th of Victoria 2,305,000/.—the sum advanced for temporary re lief upwards of 700,000/., amounting in all to 4,45 3 , 000 /. Thera was a proposal made, which - had been sanctioned by an Act of Parliament, to enable the Irish counties to extend the time of payment over 20 years, upon applica tion, and there Ras also a provision to shorten the time. Six counties had applied to have the time ex tended, and two to have it shortened. The state of the counties in Ireland was very varied. White some loans bora interest, there were others on which no interest was required, and he proposed that the same arrangement mould be continued—that the loans which were liable to interest should continue to pay it, alul that those which were not Should be exempted from the payment of any. There were other heavy charges upon some unions, which prevented them making exertions to provide the necessary workhouse accommodetioa for the poor, and to give relief to the destitute. He alluded to the contracts which bad been made during the period of famine for the Supply of goods and clothing to the work houses. The unions had refused to pay the contractors owing to their impoverished condition, and the consequence was that in several workhouses the effects had been seized upon, and the guardians were obliged to pay 6/. per cent. upon the sum due, in order to prevent the effects being disposed of. Now it appeared that these difficulties were mainly owing to the famine, and if they could be relieved from them they would be able to begin afresh, and thereby carry into effect the due administration of the poor-laws. Such is the opinion of the Poor-law Commis sioners, more especially of Mr. Power, who is now in this country, who had repeated his opinion that a little assistance would enable several unions to build temporary workhouses, and by the ap plication of the workhouse test greatly to diminish the expenditere. Such being the case, Government thought it advisable to propose that there should be added to the sum already advanced an amount which would make the total advances amount to the sum of 4,483,000/, for the purpose of assisting the unions and enabling them to discharge their liabili ties, and which should be repayable by instalments in forty years. According to the accounts they had re ceived the general debts of the poor-law unions in Ireland were diminished between September and De cember by no less a sum than 100,0001., but the distressed unions, which were about thirty, had been unable to effect any reduction in their liabilities. At the end of December last the debts, besides those due to the elec toral divisions, amounted to 270,0001. ; and the Poor law Commissioners were of opinion that, if these debts could be discharged, not only would they be able to carry on the due administration of the unions, but in some cases it would enable the Poor-later Commissioners to make the divisions in accordance with the report of the Boundary Commissioners, which otherwise they might not be able to do.—(Year, hear.) Now, it was deemed advisable that the unions should be divided into electoral districts. Some of these districts bad been already arranged. Eight were in course of formation, and nine had already been formed. In these districts it had been ascertained that the law had been fully and wisely carried into effect. He would now state to the House what had been the result of the formation of these electoral districts upon the popula tion. [Sir George Grey here reminded his Lordship of the reduction of the debt of the unions.] Yes; the debt of the several unions he had to state was about 270,000/., which had by subsequent outlay been in creased to 370,000/. The whole amount cf the debt of the several unions was 4,783,000/. The =mint actually required to be liquidated was about 250,000/., of which sum about 150,0001. had been de frayed, and beyond which about 50,000/. more was already prepared for payment, being, he believed, now in the hands of the several guardians. Much of the business which had been transacted in these unions had been concluded under the authority of several of the Acts of Parliament by which the affairs of the Irish unions had been of late conducted.—(Hear.) But be must now state what was their opinion of the workhouse test upon the population at large.—(Hear, bear.) On the Ist of January last it appeared that in England and Wales there was about 1 in 15 receiving relief from the poor-rates, whereas in Ireland, in the month of December, there was only 1 in 27 receiving poor relief. He therefore thought they should not be acting im prudently, but wisely, if they enabled the poor law unions in Ireland to provide themselves still further with workhouses. Now, therefore, the proposal he had to make was, in the first place, that the general sums which had been advanced to Ireland, beginning with the workhouse le ans in 1839, and going on to the advances made in 1846 and 1847 and subsequent years, should, when it was desired, and where the pressure on the poor lass unions appeared to be mani festly great, be converted into consolidated an nuities, and be payable with interest where interest was due. The next proposal was, that the sum of 300,00 u/. should be advanced for the purpose of enabling beards of guardians, under the the direction of the Poor-law Commissioners, to pay off the debts incurred for fiod and clothing, during the periods of distress. (Hear, hear.) There was now a prospect of Ireland being able to recover from that very great depression in der which she had long laboured, and to enter upon a new social career. It was evident, if they were to look to that state of society which exLted in Ireland from 176 S to 1815, they would be only looking to the recurrence of misery and blood shed, the people being utterly destitute of those means of comfort to which the civilized nations of Europe were accustomed. There had not been those sums expended in farm buildings andin improvements which the landed gen try in England and Scotland are accustomed to make by agreement with their tenants; there had not been that regularity in the payment of the farm labourers which ought to be the source of maintenance to them. Everything there had been dirorder and disorga nization. Hence arose those crimes and disorganiza tion which seemed beyond the power of legislation. to amend. Those things were not for them to dispose of, but he (the Noble Lord) hoped that Ireland was ap proaching to that time when society might be constituted in a better manner, In which landlords, farmers, and peasantry, wculd unite to. make her a happy and con tented country.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord concluded by moving a resolution embodying the proposition eaun ciat , d in his speech. Mr. F. FRENCH said he could not a. - ;ree with the Noble Lord in the discredit whirih he had tbrox a upon the landlords and tenants in Ireland, t) whose disunion ho had alleged many of the evils in the country were to he attributed. He l6oked upon the propsition of the Noble Lord with great su.ipiciou, considering it fraught With ills fir Irelaug, but pregnant with benefits for England. Mr. MONSELL represented one of the most dis tressed counties in Ireland, and he felt bound to tender to her Majesty's Government his best thanks for the course they had adopted. lie differed from the Honourable Member for Bosscommon, in thinking that this measure was not a liberal one; he thought it was greatly so, and that the best thanks cf the people of Ireland were due to the Government far bringing it forward. The E trl of ARUNDEL and SURREY adverted to the conduct of the Kilruela Union, and expressed an opinion favourable to the proposition of the Noble Lord at the headf the Government. Colonel SfBTHORP could not support the resolutions, and would take every opportunity to oppose them. Mr. P. SCROPE said that he highly approved of those resolutions, as they as much concerned the interest of the people of England as the Irish; he therefore thou g ht that the people of this country should see that these re solutions were fairly carried out by the boards of guar dians. He should, ;hoVrever, say that he differed from the Noble Lord when he asserted that there was a con siderable reduction in the poor-rates. If such were the case, he believed that it was effected by the denial of relief to the poor in those unions to which the Noble Lord adverted. Yes, the unions of Kilrush, Scarry, Eanistymon, and Westport were witnesses of those re ductions, effected through the unwarrantable means of denying relief to the poor applicants. He had been in formed that, at the time that out-door relief was denied, the diet given in those workhouses was not such as was prescribed by the regulations of the Poor-law Commis sioners; and that the result was that the poor, who would otherwise necessarily have made application, were deterred by the numerous deaths in those workhouses, occasioned by bad diet, and therefore took as a choice to risk their lives in their huts and hovels, and by the ditch side, rather than go into such charnelhouses. Mr. CLEMENTS said that he considered that every Irishman owed a deep debt of gratitude to the Noble Lord for those most beneficial measures that ho had in troduced. He certainly objected to the amount of money granted to the unions in the west, because he felt assured that it would be very difficult to carry out the law in those unions. He thought that it would be much more beneficial if the waste lands would be reclaimed by a grant, and that they be made exempt from the poor rate for some years. This project would give employ ment to the poor, and would be productive of general utility. Lord CLAUD HAMILTON said that he fully con curred in the system of giving employment to the poor, and hoped that the Noble Lord would take it into con sideration. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to know whether this grant of 300,0001., with the debt of 4,783,0001., is to be converted into consolidated annuities, and, if so, he looked upon it as a most dangerous system of finance, particularly when it extended over 40 years. He per fectly concurred with the resolutions, with the exception of the system of consolidation. Mr. GRATTAN said, that from the climate, soil, harbours, and geographical position, Ireland was not in tended by Providence to become a beggar, and he would join with the Hon. and Gallant Colonel (Col. Sibthorp) in opposing these resolutions. England should make a bold resolve, and nothing else could save her. Ireland would most assuredly otherwise pull her down.—(Hear.) How, he would ask, could England bear the drain which Irish miseries were entailing on it? A paper had that day been laid upon the table of the House on the subject of emigration. Well, how was that question operating in the case of Ireland. He fond, by a return now in his hand, that 195,000 individuals had actually arrived at Liverpool from Ireland, whence they were drivea by starvation. The land was being deserted, and did the House think that the masses who were thus forced from Ireland could be friendly to the interests of England in other countries? He hoped they would; but he should much rather, in a time of danger, see those masses happily located on their own soil. The difficul ties of this country in relation to the condition of Ire land were very great, and the question was, how were they to getout of them ? He would tell them—by not getting into them.—(Loud laughter.) The country was ruined, and it became a question, were they to keep it in this state? Such was the discontent in Ireland, that it required the Government of this country to keep an army of 50,000 men in that country. With re spect to the Irish " Protectionists," ho might say of them, that they were Protectioni s t s now th a t they had nothing to lose, and that he despised men who were pro tectionists of a miserable shilling a bushel on corn. '].'he Irish Members were really of no use to their country. The bad landlords were a marked class—the bad land lords were " men to be shot at " from behind the hedge —(Laughter)—while the good ones were free to walk abroad. He had found that. The misgovernment of the country was mainly the cause of the wretched state in which the country now was. Were there no states men in England to stop t he evil, and save the United Kingdom from total ruin ? Was English statesmanship Was there no y try ba P d dTeshteroy.edsChatham—nokGo vernmenti n and t Pitt—loeng legislation a t no nsrescue t s c h y a i tn s e h , cee c o e c? u v o n e u n t n r the financial the peace, the happinen, happiness of Ireland. He found by returns, that the revenue of Ireland had sunk down to 398,000/, while the money sent out of the country to " absentee " land lords amounted to 4,000,000/. By returns which he also held in his hand, he found that 200,0001. had been paid in the last year for fever and famine in Ireland. The Encumbered Estates Bill was now in operation in Ire land, and with respect to that he would say to the Government, if they sell up men, let them sell up the men who were the cause of such a state of things as he bad been deploring in that country—let them do that, and not sell up innocent men. He did not think, with respect to the " infusion of new blood" into Ireland, spoken of by Sir Robert Peel, that the Right Honour able Baronet would live to see it. The Right Honour able Baronet imagined that an array of new menwould spring up in that country, like men armed cap-a-pie, and springing forth from the head of Minerva, but the Hon. Baronet would be disappointed. He (bar. Grattan) would again say to the House in the same language which had before given so much offence to some Ho nourable Members, " Take back your money;" it is not your money the Irish require, but justice ; you make them beggars when you should make them men. Lord BERNARD could not but thank the Govern ment for the advance which it proposed in aid of the distressed unions in Ireland on the present occasion; and to the Noble Lord at the head of the Government he thought especial thanks were duo for having pro posed it thus early in the session. The distress in many of the unions was deep, and ho had no doubt the ad vance would prove a most seasonable relief. Mr. BRIGHT wished to make one or two observa tions to the House on the subject now under considera tion. In most parts of Ireland, he was glad to be enabled to state, there were some improvements in the sadly distressed and disastrous condition of the peo ple over the last four years. He could comprehend the claims which some Hon. Members in that House had put forward for the 300,0001. which the Noble Lord at the head of the Government proposed to advance to pay oil the debts of some of the distressed unions. He did not, however, think that the Noble Lord had sufficiently ex plained to the House how it was that there were such an enormous amount of arrears in some of those unions. While he was in Ireland, a few months ago, his atten tion had been fixed on the condition of one or two of the unions, and he found that the greater portion of the money due was owing, not by the occupiers, but the " owners" of the land in those unions. He was aware that there was not any great partiality by the owners of property in that country to th e p oo r- ra t es , an d h e f oun d that the occupiers were generally distrained for the arrears, while the owners managed to escape payment, and came off " scot free." He would read an extract to the House, which would show that ; and he felt that when the Government showed that an in crease was necessary. it was bound to show also that everything had been done to collect the arrears due. He would nut mention the names of the unions, for certain reasons, but if any Honourable Gentlemen wished to know he would tell hire in private. In one union more than half the magistrates were de faulters in respect to the rates due of them—(Cries of " Name, name.") He took it that those magistrates were owners of land. He found, also, that both the Members for the countywero defaulters—("Name, name !" from sevcral Irish county Members.) He found that one of the magistrates had made over to his mother his goods and chattels, so that the poor-law officers could not take them for the rate—(Name). lie found that another magistrate transferred his stock to his son, and that his son's name was now branded on them, in order to defeat the poor -rate collector, and that case had been reported to the Castle, but the Castle took no notice of the matter, the party reported being in favour in that quarter. He found that another magistrate sat on the j Bench in his own case, and decided in that case. He found that another magistrate west from his own to another union, and helped his friend there . to baffle the law, and that in t u rn his friend came to his union, and helped him to baffle the poor-law guardians of the rates clue—(Name, name). Now, there was anothe r case which came under his notice the case cf W. Bourke, who was occupier of 19 acres of land, and to his name he found this note of the collector— " This man is really poor, with his family in fever, but I have no doubt he will pay." He (Mr. Bright) found that there was property in Ireland which was assessed to the rates, and teat when application was made to a superior court upon the subject the result of success was very doubtful, because of 300:10 set up. He found that in the unions of Balinrobe, Clifden, and Castlebar, the greet bulk of the rates was owning by owners, and not by occupiers of land. Those cases had been reported to the Castle of Dublin, and the poor-law guardians found that after those detalca had been reported at the Castle, the Castle took notice of them. He was net there to object to the advance of this grant of 300,000/., but he t onbtu i hneti o neA: n ;t:it s ilednr alrrris. o . hoped it would be the last. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—An " advance," not a grant. rated was at theo eekry knew I p : dr. nar h owsd . e ttc :01 3 yt N e. ri MBEs—Whol' tuga ' dol blrhadlt land, Noble Lordirdieri::aoeshtt and oop re sedar:i orh: ow a l neobtu, their dd a er comelxs at landsen re on s. in the pound, the year before at3s., and the year before at Is. Thus, then, it would be seen that the union of Clifden never paid more than 7s. in the pound for poor rate. This year it was proposed to rate it at ss. in the pound. He might mention to the House an instance of a gentleman who rented a farm in Ireland, and who was rated at 17/. 10s. for his holding, a rate which some would call excessive. What did that gentleman remark to him?—" They sly," said Le, " poor-rates will prove ht? ruin of Ireland." All I know is, that a mann fa3turing concern with which I am connected is rated at 309/. motieofßh:ntst. oealhcwi hhGiGpuraii Aocdtelliahcoi gistrates Mr. MONSELL—On what valuation 2—(i:car, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT did not quite understand the Honour able Gentleman's meaning. This he would say, that if the Noble Lord at the head of the Government would alopt some measure to give the poor-law officers power to seize on some acres of land, he would bring the refractory and defaulting owners to a sense of their duty, and would, by such an aet of justice put them, at least, in the possession of those poor occupiers whose property was seized and sold for the ar rears, while the owner of the large park went unscathed. —(Hear, hear.) He repeated, if the Noble Lord took from over, Sear thee Ir taxe saftr of year,th this in 3', and handed the money o of th e di s t resse d un i ons i n li c o a u i n d tr Ireland, be ought to give the poor.law authorities suffi cient power t) seize on the lands of defaulters, and re tain them until the arrears were paid. Mr. H. HERBERT, Member for Kerry, was not much disappointed at the result of the Hon. Member for Manchester's tour, and was sorry he could not compli ment the lion. Gentleman in the words of the poet, that he hal 44 neturn'd from his finish'd tour, Grown ten times wiser th an b efore. " —(Laughter.) The Hon. Member did nothing by his travels but gather up what had been known and written long before his time. But what he (Mr. Herbert) comp l a i ne d o f was the Hon. Member attack i ng Memb ers anonymously— attaching men , too, in their absence, and not daring to give their names; and attacking the Government at the Castle for neglect of duty. The Honourable Member also made an attack on Irish gentlemen for not letting their lauds to persons who w ere not dispos , A to give them what they required for th em. Now he (Mr. Her bert) hal heard much frcfro m the lip s of some Honourable Members of free-trade opinions, and he certainly thought that this interference with gentle men as to the letting of their lands was not consistent. Mr. BRIGHT—I mean to say that those gentlemen House, don't pay their rates, therefore that th ey arc not ent i tled to the s Mr. not . justified in the attacks which h e h a d sympathy of _tbrisho 11 llusourable Gentleman was made on the Irish landlords. He called upon the H ouse to t him HERBERT—The in insisting that the names of the two gentlem su e p ti p a o l r luded to by the Honourable Member for Manchester should be g i ven up, and if they were not, he had no hesitation in stigmatising it as the worst of calumnies, an anonymous calumny. After a few words from Colonel DUNNE , Sir W. SOMERVILLE said the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Manchester had fallen into a not very uncomm on error. He appeared to cons id er rate un collected as rate in arrear; but that was not the case, and all the returns went to show that the collection in Ireland was exceedingly close.—(Hear.) If both the par ties to whom the Hon. Member had alluded were to be placed on the same footing, he did not see how that could be done, except by taking away the power of dis traint as against the occupier. He would j ust ca ll t h e attention the House to the state of facts with regard to the collection of the rate. The whole rate imposed since the establishment of the poor-law amouute.l to something more than 7,000,0001., and of that amount no less than 96 per cent. had been collected; and he believed that in England there was no rate collected is so close a way. * The whole arrear was only 207,0001. That fact was sufficient to show that no reasonable effort had b een neglected to collect the rate, and that the collection had been successful.—(Cheers.) With respect to the contract entered into in the Newcastle Union, the Commissioners had not the power to interfere with the contract when once made; but, under any circumstances, it was very doubtful whether they could properly have done so. He admitted the question was ono which required a good deal of care and consideration; but he did not think any blame attached to the Commissioners. He was gl a d to find that the proposition had been received so favourably by the House. He was happy to say that the aspect of affairs was improving, and that there had been a marked diminution of expenditure in the unions since September last; until, in January, the diminution, as compared with the same month last year, amounted to 70,000/.—(Hear, hear.) Ho trusted that the time was not far distant when the unions would become self-supporting, and that re turning prosperity and a better state of things would render any further assistance by Parliament unnecessary. Mr. bIONSELL explained - that he had made the statement relative to the Newcastle Union for the pur pose of calling the attention of the Government to what he considered a defect in the low. Mr. GROGAN denied that a two or three months' tour through Ireland gave the Hon. Member for Man chester any right to become a philosophical lecturer on presumed delinquencies of tho Irish landlords, and challenged that Gentleman to move for the production of papers connected with the collection of the rate, that the country might know who the landlords were that had proved neglectful of their duty, and that tho entire body of owners might not suffer through the omission of a few. Sir 11. W. BARRON said ho felt pleased the lion. Membsr for Manchester had made his attack on the Irish landed proprietor!, and on two county Members especially, because it afforded the Right Hon. the Secre tary for Ireland an opportunity of eating that Ireland, at hut, had pi.' a ohale of the pour•law tax larger than England had done of a similar impost. lle denied that, as was assumed, the poverty of the country had been decreasing during the last six months, and he maintained, that the cheapness of provisions by free trade measures was not of the slightest use while the people were left without employment or the means of obtaining even the common necessaries of life. Free trade measures might do well enough for Manchester, but they had produced absolute ruin in Ireland, and he would tell the free-trade party that, having produced that ruin, the people of this country would feel the effects of it in the increase in the taxes which must ensue. Sir WILLIAM SOMERVILLE rose to correct a statement which ho made when be previously addressed the House. He then said that 96 per cent. of the rate leviable under the poor-law, since the last Poor-law Act for Ireland came into operation, had been paid. In one sense the amount was under-stated, and in another sense it was over-stated. The case stood thus ; 90 per cent. of the rates so leviable had been lodged, and of the remaining six per cent. four per cent. had been carried to the arrest's of the last rate, and only two per cent. ac tually remained due.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT said the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman had nothing to do with the statement he made. If they were to speak of Ireland as a whole in regard to the rates levied, then it was a different thing from taking the amount levied in particular portions of it. If they took the whole of Ireland they would find that the average rates were very low, less in fact than the average of rates in England. But what he said was that there were certain unions in Ireland in which the largest portion of the arrears for poor-rates now due were by the owners of the land.—(dear, hear, and cries of " Name, name.") Well, he (Mr. Bright) would name three—Cliffden, Batinrobe, and Castlebar, where there were a considerable portion of such arrears due, and the reason given by the poor-law guardians for that state of things was the state of the law which provided for the recovery of rates on the owners of land. The description he had already given of the law in that respect was a correct one. If a landowner west in arrears they had to apply to a magistrate for an order, end then they had to go to ono of the superior courts, where they obtained a judgment. That became a judgment on the land, and a debt which gave the union power to re cover from the land; but the process was so tedious that in many cases he was told that it was found impracti cable. The case might be, that neither the landlord nor the guardians wore to blame for the accumulation of those arrears. In regard to what he stated about a certain union, and which statement the Hon. Member for Kerry had called a calumny, and - not only that, but a cowardly calumny, he was not prepared to giso up the names of the gentlemen he alluded to, and the reason of not mentioning them was, that they were gentlemen whose rates were in arrears, to whom it could not be imputed that they were so; and therefore it would be unfair to them; but that there were such cases in that union he was prepared to show, for he took down the particulars on the spot, from the union book, and therefore he was confident that what he had stated was correct. He should not give the names of those gen tlemen to the House, because he was only pointing out facts to the Government, in order that their attention might bo called to them. Lord NAAS said, after the assertion the Hon. Member had made, he could not ree with what justice he could refuse to give the names of the parties. He had stated landed proprietors in Ireland were doing all they could to avoid paying their rates; that they had their pre- mises guarded by their gamekeepers to keep out the bailiffs; and he asked the Hon. Member whether it was fair to make those charges without giving the class against whom they were made an opportunity of refuting them. He would therefore ask the Hon. Member it he would state the names Ee bad referred to, that a re turn might be procured, in order to show the truth of his assertions. In regard to what the Hon. Gentleman had said about the poor-rates being lower in Ireland than in England— Mr. BRIGHT—I said, if you take the whole of Ire land it might bo that the average rate was lower than in England. Lord NAAS—The Hon. Gentleman gave the House to understand that Ireland was taxed in a less de;ree than England—(Hear, hear)—which was an astenion which could triumphantly be refuted by a protest laid upon the table of the House of Lords last session by Lord Ross, in which it was stated that the rateable property in Ireland was 4,214,3151., which was just Fs. 4d. in the pound, and about four times the rate of the local taxation in England.—(Bear, hear.) Mr. TRELAWNY said he could not think the state ment of the Noble Lord was correct, fn. during the famine in Ireland England was not only plying the ex pense of its own poor•law, but also half the expense of the Irish poor-law.—(" Bear, bear," end laughter.) Sir H. W. BARRON—It siai a loan of four millions Ireland got from the Imperial Treasury, and not given by England. Mr. TRELAWNY—A loan to Ireland!—(Laughter.) When so mueh as 94 per cent. of the poor-rates had bon collected, he could not understand upon what grounds Government sought this additional grant. He was some :, hat surprised at hearing the Hon. Member for Man chester talk of parties refasing to let their land at a rea sonable rate. He did not understand how a Free-trader could use such language.—(A. laugh.) Mr. M'CULLAGII, knowing the state of Ireland, would net be doing his duty if he did not express him self grateful to the Ministers for their proposal. He did not deny that some portion of the landed proprietors in Ireland might deserve the reprehension of the ion. Member for Manchester, but he knew something of the unions referred to by the Hon. Member, and he had no hesitation in saying that the difficulties would be found to have arison from the properties not being in the hands of the parties whose names stood on the rats-book. In the Cliiiden union the largest property was in theposser.- sion of an English assurance company. It was unfortu nate that Hon. Gentlemen opposite should seem to make common cause with the delimiters. %yids respect to the question of local taxation, ho believed the whole rate able property of Irelaid was, somewhm.c about 13,000,0001., and that the amount of rates collected far the two years ending September, 1848, and September, 1849. was 1,600,000/., making the total charge on the rateable property of Ireland about 2s. 6d. in the pound. That was higher than the average charge in England. Mr. TRELAWNY—No. _ _ Mr. M'CULLAGH—If it was, and he believed it was, the Hun. Member for Tavistock was scarcely just- fied in misleading the House as to the charge fur the poor of Ireland. Mr. H. HERBERT denied that either he or the Hon. Member for Kildare had identified themselves with the defau:ters alluded to by the Hon. Member for Manchester. Mr. SADLEIR said, that as one anxious to preserve human life, he thanked the Government for the consi derate proposal they had brought forward. He thought the Hon. Member for Manchester had overlooked the Act of last session to remedy the defect in the law of which he complained. That Act gave very summary powers against landlords owing arrears of rates. And if any fault could be found with the powers conferred by that Act, it would be that they were excessive. If the Hon. Member for Manchester confounded individual in stances with the general practice, he would do great in justice to the landlords of Ireland. Mr. BRIGHT read the clauses of the Act of last ses sion respecting the collection of rates. They provided that in the first ,instance a civil bill or decree might be issued against a defaulter by the assistant barrister, and that it might be removed without writ or certiorari to a superior court at Dublin, where, after certain forms, it would obtain the force of a judgment, and take prierity as a charge for the property. The Hon. Mem ber proceeded to say that the process was exactly such as he had described it. He had not spoken of the price of land let on reasonable tenure, and his questions re ferred more to the tenure than to the price. It was •quite allowable for him to characterise as folly the con duct of a man who allowed his land to lie waste when there was a surrounding population without work. Mr. MUNTZ was not surprised that Irish Members should hail with thankfulness a proposal like The pre sent. But there was another party to be consulted, who were not so well satisfied ; he alluded to the hard working people of England. He wished to know how long Ministers intended coming to that House for money for Ireland, without ever telling them what they thought was the matter with it ?—(Hear.) The famine was the excuse formerly, but the famine was not to last for ever.—(Hear.) Were Ministers always to hang their coats on that peg?—(A laugh.) He had re sisted the vote of last year, and bad told them that there would be another vote this year.—(Hear, hear.) And now he told them there would be another vote next year. —(Hear, hear.) He was as desirous as any one of see ing Ireland prosperous, but his impression was, that Ire land would not be much improved .next year. Were they to have another grant because of the famine? He wished Ministers to fix some limits to its effects. There was surely no famine now, when every one was complain ing of the lowness of the price of food.—(Hear, hear.) It was the duty of Ministers to declare the real cause of distress in Ireland. With regard to the present propo sal he should not vote for it whether intended as a loan or as a grant.—(Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL said the Hon. Member did not seem to suffer much from delicacy in speaking of Ireland. The Hon. Member must not have been present when he stated at any early period of the evening his reasons for propos ing the advance. Ho had stated that Ireland was not suffering from famine. The Hon. Member said that the proposed advance would be a grant because there was no chance of its being repaid. They had heard aimiler language last year, but the House consented, neverthe less, that the advance of 250,0001. then proposed should be made. Out of the 250,0001. which had been so vot l ed last session, 150,0001. had been repaid within six months; and that surely did not show that there was any extreme difficulty in obtaining the repayment of the Irish ad vances. He hoped that Hon. Members would then allow the resolution to be reported. It would afterwards be necessary to introduce a Bill founded on the resolu tions; and to that Bill the Hon. Member for Birming ham, and every other Hon. Member, could offer ya n op position he might think desirable. He h a d no objec tion - to see the proposal of her Majesty's Ministers f airl y canvassed, because he believed it would be found that the circumstances in which that proposal had originated fully justified the favour with which it had been received by the House. Colonel SIBTHORP said that be would, on a future occasion, take the s e n se o f t h e H ouse on the subject. Mr. . O'CONNELL said be wished to inform the Hon. Member for Birmingham that the evils under which Ireland suffered were mainly owing to the legislation of that House, and the system of government pursued iu that country. The resolutions were den agreed to, and 'were ordered to be reported t) the House on Monday nev. PARTY PROCESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL. The House having resumed, this Bill was rem.' a second time, and was ordered to be committed-on Mon day rear. AUSTRALIA N COLONIES GOVERNMENT LILL. To second reading of this Bill was postponed (as wo understood) until Monday next.., THE COURT OF CHANCERY (IRELAND) BILL. • Tho order of the day having been read for the second reading of this Bill, Mr R. PALMER said he did not rise to oppose this measure, which he believed to be necessary for the bene fit of Ireland, but to offer a word or two in reference to what had been said a few evenings since on this subject by his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Coven try. It was a mistake to suppose that his Hon. and Learned Friend was not favourable to an improvement in the practice of the Chancery in this country. No one was more satisfied that this improvement ought to take place than his Learned Friend, but the question was, how was this to take place? He trusted that the Court of Chancery in England would be reformed, and that a Bill for that purpose would be brought into Par- Bement. After a few words from Mr. HEADLAM, who said that he would reserve his observations on the Bill until it was going into Committee., Mr. STUART said that the object of this Bill was to alter the whole practice of the Court of Chancery in Ire land. If there were abuses in the Court of Chancery in Ireland, the Lord Chancellor had power to rectify them. They were going to do in that House what the Lord Chan cellor ef Ireland ought to do himself. Why should they do so? Would any Hon. Member get up and ray that the Lord Chancellor of Ireland had not the power to do all that was suggested by this Bill ? His Hon. Friend (Mr 11. Palmer) had spoken of a Bill for the improvement of the Court of Chancery in England. If that Bill was to give additional powers to the Lord Chancellor of Eng land he should support it. But he should object to any Bill that was intend. d to alter the practice of the Court of Chancery in England, simply because the Lord Chan cellor—whose conduct as judge of that Court had given great satisflction to the public and profession—had the power of making all necessary alterations in the practice of his Court. The Hon. and Learned Member then re ferred to the Irish Encumbered Estates Bill, and con tended that the Commissioners under the Bill wore per forming the duties of the Irish Lord Chancellor. Why should this be? Tho Lord Chancellor cf England dis posed of matters connected with the encumbered estates in this country.—(Hear, hear.) Upon these grounds alone he would oppose the measure before the House and divide the House upon it. But look at the object of the Bill before them. It was to change the practice from proceeding by way of bill to that of petition. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then referred to Sir Samuel liomilly's Act of 1812, and contended that while it altered the practice of the Court of Chancery in reference to charity cases, in respect to which the practice was altered so as to oblige the parties to proceed by way of petition, it failed when the principle was made to apply to questions of title. After years of litigation and ex pense, the result was, that by the decision of the House of Lords, the party complaining was obliged to begin again and file a new bill. In this way a tremend ous injustice might be inflicted, and a better means could not not be invented of increasing litigation without the intervention of any direct cause for it. It did not conform to his notion of the dignity of the profession to which he belonged, and to the dignity of the Court of Chancery, that a discreditable class of piactitioners should be tolerated. His idea of a useful system of law that might be beneficial to the landlords of Ireland, was, that it should ho expeditious, and next that it should be cheap. The Commissioners f nr the sale of Enctunhered Estates had net yet told a single acre, and were that his only reason, he should have been justified in considering the Act under which they zero appointed as a mischievous enactment.— (Hear, hear.) That Act was eating up the property of Ireland, and but few could stand the drain of a double set of costs which most wire exposed to. He had seen it stated somewhere, that in 16 instances in which there were suits pending in the Court of Chancery in reference to estates under the operations of the Commissioners for the sale of Encuui bored Estates, those proceedings had been stopped. Granting that to be the case, he should like to know in how many more instances those proceedings had not not been stopped. Upon the whole, he considered that they were trenching upon the duties of the Lord Chan cellor; and, secondly, that they were not doing so in the proper way. For those reasons he should move that this Bill be read a second time that day six months. Mr. HE tkDLAM said that as it now appeared to be the wish of the House that the discussion of this Bill should be taitea at this stage, he begged to make a few observations upon it. He differed entirely from the ar gument made by the Hon. Member who bad just sat down, first, that the Lord Chancellor had powers which this Bill proposed to give; and, secondly, that suppos ing he had such powers, it was an improper usurpation. This Bill provided distinct and new remedies for the evils which existed under the present system. In the first place, it prevented the expense and delay incidental to.the mass of the pleadings in Chancery, by instituting a proceeding by petition; secondly, it directly affected the system of evidence upon paper; and thirdly, it pro posed a most salutary improvement, by giving power to the master to carry into effect the matters entrusted to him. These were matters the re form of which had long been felt to be a matter of necessity, and in his opinion this Bill was entitled to the support of the House, as providing the direct remedy which every Chancery practitioner had desired. Mr. KEOGH said that the Hon. and Learned Gen tleman the Member for Newark must have a wonderful regard for Chancery proceedings, if he thought they were of so expeditious or inexpensive a nature that the Bill before the House could not effect a change for the better. Every one acquainted with tho nature of the proceedings in the Court of Chancery must know how voluminous the proceedings were. Firrt, there was the original bill, then the supplemental bill; then, if any party in the suit died, there must be a bill of reviver, then there was a supplemental bill, and bill of reviver, and a bill in the nature of a bill of review.—(Laughter.) To exemplify the operation of the Act of last session he might state, that on one occasion he had to attend before the Commissioners, and it was necessary to produce the certificate of the Chancellor to show the state of tho cause. He found the original bill, the extent of which was twenty-three skins of parchment, and he found a supplemental bill extendirg to seventy. two. There were sixty or seventy defendents in the suit, and one counsel had signed the answers of twenty five of there. No one who know these evils practically would think himself justified in opposing the Bill under consideration; and yet the Hon. Member for Newark complained of having heard that only sixteen Chancery suits had been stopped. Why the Commissioners under the Act were only appointed in October last, and, short as had been the opportunity of judging of the effect of the measure, he would ask how many Chancery suits, if left to the ordinary course of practice, would have been stopped in the interval?—(Cheers and laughter.) The House had heard an attack that evening made on the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, and perhaps the Hon. Gentleman from whom it proceeded did not even know his name. They who came from Ireland not only knew the Irish Chancellor, but the English ones too—those who had been, those who were, and those who were to be. But with regard to the merits of the Bill itself, it pro posed, in the first place, that a simple petition should be filed, stating the rights of the party, sup ported by affidavit, and the other.party was immediately t I answer. Then there was this very satisfactory course of proceeding, that viva voce evidence might be taken, instead of the absurd practice pursued in the Court of Chancery. It also prevented' a fraudulent defendant from frustrating justice, by increasing costs which he never could pay; and for that reason he should support the Bill, and was glad that it had beenaindtrboiendeuntchemed bina M ; r. h C e O ad e m li it H te U d ß tb N at sa b i e d w a a n allusion n e profoundt o b n ut t hhee man,th proposedougb t he was corn l p s et b e a n d t t l bo e e d eg g ni e v : e a fiadne opinionhqyui n t y n la eminentwn ,p that measure. su ti r e e n m a i n g d ht tb b e e introduced which would shake the Constitution, lawyers would remain in their cabinets, u but if you were to touch a cobweb in Westminster yen would have the hungry spiders disturbed from their hiding places to oppose it. He had not the slighte.t doubt that this measure would act advantageously for Ire land, and hoped the time was not far distant when it would be extended to this country.—(Cheers.) The Honourable Member for Newark thought that it was an encroachment upon the privileges of the Lord Chan cellor of Ireland, and thought that the reforms might be effected by the Court itself; but if they were to wait until that reform was accomplished they might wait for ever.—(Flear, hear.) The Chancellor had jurisdiction in the minor prcceedings of his court, but a reform of this character rested with the Legislature. It was said that all suitors might be driven to resort to the original form of pleading; but it should be recollected that the judge was left a discretion by this Bill to decide whether that was necessary or not. He believed the reform now pro posed would be equally acceptable to the public and the majority of the profession.—(Hear, hear.) lie ems happy that it had been introduced by his Hon. and Learned Friend, who was walking in the footsteps of hi s great and honoured father.—(Cheers.) The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the objections to this Bill had been so fully answered by the Honour. able Members for Athlone and Southampton, that he did not consider it necessary to enter farther into refu tation of them. It was said •that the Lord -Chancellor of Ireland Could effect these reforms ; but he thought if it was left to be done' there the reform would he but slender, and that an effectual- remedy could not be obtained without the. sanction of the Legislature. - His Learned Friend the Member for, Newark knew that the House of Lords would not entertain a suit which had not gone through the regular processes, with out the sanction of a legislative enactment. The objec tion made by the Hon. and Learned Member was to the form by petition in place of by bill, but this was only a difference in name. The only real difference was that the surplus pleadings would be omitted. In fact it was only a technical system created for the p.urpotee of costs, injurious to the public. It was perfectly competent for the Court to adjudicate upon tte merits by petition as, by bill and answer. He took upon himself the entire re sponsibility of the Bill, and of every other to which his name was attached. lie was asked whether he had the sanction of th© Lord Chancellor of Ireland. Ile had only to say, that he would not introduce such a measure without consulting that eminent judge. lie hadesub mated it to the Lord Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls, and had their sanction to the principle and object of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) The present state of the practice was calculated to throw a slur upon the' Court. He considered this Bill would he a 'greet im provement, and hoped the House would affirm the second reading. Mr. WALPOLE wished to &Attie Hon. and Learned Geutleman one question. He believed there was a ge neral concurrence as to the necessity of some extensive referm cf the proceedings in the Court of Chancery in Ireland, and also of the Court of Chancery in England. —(hear, hear.) But, seeing tl at the present was not the end nor the means by which these reforms could be pro perly carried out, he owned that he greatly di sa pproved of a Bill lik e th e present b - i ng discussed in- a House the nreater tilti%her o f a bee; Moninrs were unacquainted with the details of the question. He should suggest, therefore,-that the Bill be referred to a Select Committee —(Cries ohl")..—b y whom it would be put into each a shape as would qualify it for carrying out the objects' they had in view. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL could 'dot accede tO the proposition of the Hon. and Learned Gentlemeth He knew well what would be the effect of sending it to a Select Committee. He would endeavour to adopt and embody in it any practicable suggestions that might be offered to him, and for that purpose would commuarcate with the Hon. and Learned Member for Newark and others, but ho could not consent to referring the Bill to a Select Committee. Mr. TURNER regretted that the Solicitor -General would not adopt the suggestion of his Hon. and Learned Friend to refer the Bill to a Select Committee. He I cas convinced that the Bill could not be carried out in its , present shape. He would not vote on either si de. the same time he was most willing to give his assistance in the framing of a measure that would really rem edi the evils of which they complained. Ile thought em & t this Bill should be referred to a Select Committee, and that it would be more advantageous that many perseeS unconnected with the law should form a portio n ofttist Committee than that it should be composed altogether °I lawyers. Mr. STUART said that it was not his intention to i press his amendment. He would, however, in a fete? stage, move to expunge every clause except the 2St"f which gave the Lord Chancellor power to make ursnY ° the desired alterations. e nd- Colonel RAWDON having cbjected to the sol meat being withdrawn, The question was put, when the second reading 055 carried by the almost unanimous assent of the H ouse. i, REGISTRAR'S OFFICE (BANKRUPTCY) 131 4, On the motion for goine. into Committee upon this 0 Mr. HENLEY said that this was a measur e to unit the office of Chief Registrar of the Court of BankraPtl with the office of the Lord Chancellor's S Bankrupts. lie complained of the amount of salaries attached to these offices, both of which were since re This Bill would make one of these sinecures pernasol.; He though that it would be much better to refer t4 l O Bill to a Select Committee, where it could be fel t seriously considered and put into a better form to , T i n ,, e o . the evils of the case. It was rather too bad forathe 11 .1 0 and Learned Gentleman opposite to comedown with " the Secretary os Bill for a first and second reading without favouring House with one word of explanation. lie would, therdeer fore, move" that a Committee be appointed to eoesi r the best mode of dealing with the office of Regietra' of Bankru ATTORNEY-GENERAL now vaeant. The observed tha t it d rather inconsistent for an Hon. Member who exPr es 4 o .. a wish for reduction to meet the.proposition of tbeeee vernment by an amendment to refer the Bill to a v-sit mitten up-stairs. Ho would ask the Hon. Gentlr: 6 what mode could be more acceptable of dealing w e l t Bill sinecure office than to abolish it altogether, as t' - ', e `', o of proposed? The main reason for abolishing then e - o re. registrar of bankruptcy wau because it was a stn The secretary of bankrupts had not certainly at pres to as many duties to perform as heretofore; but stilL i s i t e. an officer was necessary and could not be dispene e "; eo d- The secretary had sometimes very extensive corre a p s ed. once with various parts of the country to dischsre'ffiee he occupied a responsible position, and filled th e 3 3 00 during pleasure. He apprehended that no jes t could be assigned for rejecting the proposition rio W e — i e te Mr. BOUVERIE thought it was most desir,e—raple do away with the office of registrar, fir they ba d evidence given before the Committee of which be 7, 0 0. Member, that such an office was a complete s iri f f :elet He, however, thought it would be much more d es " - bo th instead of uniting these two offices, which we re re so nearly sinecures, to place the trifling duties tha t w f - o iot be performed updh the shoulders of one of the J ° b ee registrars, with an addition of 1001. or 50/. a year to salMr.ar „pair y. M.ULLINGS said the Act provided for trews, and also in case cf the death of the chief regleie that one of the other registrars might fill the oinee• t he he could be convinced that the sugg estion made be Hon. and Learned Gentleman would lead to a esv iri t'' (Mr. Mullings) would vote for his Bill. eteeeene o After a few words from the ATTORNEY . u ..-- and Mr. HENLEY, • b pi-it the Mr. P. WOOD said it was true that the effe ct a Bill might be a saving at the. present monsen .i to tho l, would perputaate the office of chief registrar, an d '- by attaching a useless office to another one, wo uld Per,. phut° one of them. The House then divided, when there appeared-- For the original motio n ....... 57 For the amendment k ith The announcement of the numbers was receive d cheering. Bilk Mr. LABOUCHERE then brought up the three f t ee of which he had given notice, for the regelati °ll Toe . Merchant Service, Seamen's Fund, and Mercb ellt ` be nage, which were read a first ti m e, an d ordered te read a second time that day fortnight.l The House then adjourned at Twelve o'clock' 't a PARLIAMENTARY DIVISI° I4S. 0 ,0°) (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House „ r C° FRIDAY, FEB. 15. Tao REGISTRAR'S OFFICE, BANKRUPTCY Quest ion Order for Committee read; Motion made, an u rbair: proposed, " That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Thst' Amendment proposed, to leave out from the wo rd yards to the end of the Question, in order to add th e mode ° Select Committee be appointed, to consider the be t no dealing with the office et Registrar of 13 ° °kru ge vo lidg That. n. ,, vacant," instead thereon—Question put, proposed to be left out stand part of the Quest io House divided:— MINORITY —AYES, 57. b UenrY bh Abdy, T. N. Hayter, W. G Etc , ,• John milly, bl r Anson, Colonel Hoouss, Sir . vn John "•"-- . ~ Lord Jona Baring, H. B. H obhouse, T. B. Busse., „ c. . Bellew, R. XL Howard, Lord E. Russell, ri Berkeley, C. L. G. Howard, Sir H. Shell , IL •"*.,,. a ri 0 1 Boyle, Colonel J ervis, Sir Jo h n Shelburne , .., Brockman, E. D. Keppel, G. T. Simeon, John if , Campbell, W. F. Caulfeild, J. M. Henry Spearman, 1 1 %,"„dlei Cockburn, Alex. Lascelles, W. S. Stuart, Lord - I, * Craig, W. G. • Lewis, G. C. Tennent, . . 1. • t. -Cap Dundas, Admiral Lindsay, Colonel Townshend , , 4 Marquis of Someryille,,Syr. ta il bo dar uelfre ar , Watkins, Colo°' Ebrington, Viscount Martin, C. W. Elliot, John Manic, Fox • 'Willcox, Brodia Ferguson, Sir R. Mulgrave, Earl Wilson, Jna le° Freestun, Colonel Ogle, S. C. Wyld, Jame 04 6 Grey, Sir G. Paget, Lord A. Wyvill, Mar .. .. °l Grey, R. W. Palmerston, Vii. TELL' Hatchet!, John Parker, John Tufhell, Il• ertS Hawes, Benj. Pelham, D. A. Hi ll, Lord 31"' MAJORITY—NOES, 61. ..1 Aglionby, H. A. Gratt an , H enry Best, John Greene, John Blair, Stephen Gwyn, Howel S cully, sS e a h l w o I ii , Fe C r e iin al O Brotherton, Joseph Hardeastle, J. A. Shaft°, B• D ' fd C E B ar r ti o n t w h er ur n :y j W ,. B. ..H. ' B H ll u e eadi a d l s d o , an n IJ, Thoma s James Stanford, .._.• ha. Spooner, ...1..,,,,._ Stanford, J. f,. Cocks,Clay,C o b 1) o Jamesl d T , . John s S. Tancred, King, P. , J. Thicknesse, Ita h . Carrie, Henry MRaghten, W.V. Thomas Dodd, George Mangles, 8., D. Thornely, ' C. . KKeeorsghha,wWillijaamines Sullivan, el Douglas, Sir C. Manners, Lord J. Duff; G. S. . Matheson, Colonel Willonqhby, sir P Or Duke, Sir. J. Morris, David Wilson, Matth Duncan, George - - Muilings, j. IL Wood, W. F. Diincuft, John Palmer, Boundell T T h a o r n n t e 7 G o e , . 10 /5. Evelyn, , W. J. Patten, W. Tr , s r. Fagan, W. Pilkington, JaineS Henieq, nley ,j. ,r. e , T .. „ P timer, Sir E. Plowden, W. H. o C rg o e lon: Graham, Forster, Sir. j . R R l a: a r y d d o o n ; o C s o m l o a n u e l ~1 Bouve,rie, 0 f bl,is ha,. AUSTRALIANBIB' rr lf 'i COLONIES GRANT "'"'-'" hi e OA' has just been printed. Its leading provisions der the' Port Phillip be formed into a separate colohY•1111,1 ova title of the colony of Victoria—that the GoveilLorat Council of New South Wales are to establish e""; bed districts—that Legislative Councils may be e, st w' lb e ll :te.r ll in Van Diemen's Land, South Australia, an u Coo s , Australia—that the Governors and Legislativ® e jteril ix . Victoria,t e r Van constitution piealen's Australia, are authorised to make laws-013/ G overn i i 3 etd a oi n iiso d et,sr L tiaacn e t g ds isla t tive Councils may regulate t_olle,_ 8 , 11 „;" 0 ; PO I !: toms duties may Land, South sh, orti or and duties a v 0,. .,, t cue number and boundaries of districts --t° 04' General Assembl • separate colonies im p osed on . _......„0 , y, which the colonies are el% coon' ci), and to prescri e 0/ vary its constitution—that the lows ._ a bi, General may alter rules l dby order' , t he s Assembly shall suersede those enact!. o re be any goodsthsterdi constitution of th Plle a s d for troops, nor any duties inconsistent with Co on' Cs [ re A f D or V F E e ß m T a l l oilsnthat power be possessed by Governors an° lter 111° with assent of her Majesty in Council, to 6 S e E C M O E r :T a . —"e L th e a g t i d si n a t t i i : shall cou uncoil: levied o . t .tio T n , falll ble f j inTs. H — o w llo om w e a n f: t life are s • übject to com p laints which • wilier nr it p require a p , ere 10 , .„ 6 to remove, and it • is now an established fact, that th en . 0 ,,,,v,, so suitab' e as thilloway's Pills, and their purifk iPg , a nd." render them invaluable the to maiden , the suotac;!orstaig, middlethey i OP -aged; a • irregularity Sold. by all in th e researching, cleanGing,andyetiefeeri oe a a by so that females of all ages may take them with Pf r del'i'. of and it is tr 1 dike il ls e s o n t — p - -. r od di c i, e; Establishment, to tind the benefit that is sre cies ~. takin a doses, which speedily remove * eve r y flitli 1119 ,, , , Vendors ostfeiTieadni Medicine neest,aabnlidsh.athelt,tll,eosisters 00ilovis.7 , 2 44, Strand, London. .P 1 ..... .....••• •••••• _.-- ---- ----- , On the Bth i nionsfst inst., , at at u S B : -------r----Estl. ' t o l f le a llt • 52d lleguu . en h t, 0 .son„ On Vil ster gaOte:t S th u e ss l ex u , h ol ns a t da n u t ghter. of the „0.., Oa the llth inst., the lad 'A. II Nall, fsel'' ° y oi . , Napier, of a daughl'er. Rugby, the wife T T n Cbs rles Busk, Esq., of a daughter. f X' ahnl:tthieftilheHe,BtlhaedyNsoiffeconf:Gt:iti.E.:o7l33lll: the Ith ,at Little Berkbarnpeteadf On '2 • inst the t lif° ° . a . I,. O H n o t l h ls e nd l3 , .wife Of s ' . t E h 9 lll:t o . f . ian son pper liarley-strot, the ______W• ......___ Barton, Esq f R. MA WED• On the 12th inst., at Eccles, Richard, eldest son Eliza, Cheshire, to Elizabe'll, eldest daughter of '6'ir 13euilu' of Springwood, Lancashire and Cal(l2:4l2ljey wood, Bart., of Claremont, Lancashire. On the llth inst., at Kilgerran Church olco bire ' Perobr s . !.. e , to Edward Bearcroft, Ecq of Mere-hall, 'Worester 1 i5 " ( . 1., o f F 3 none, Pembrokeshire. youngest daughter -. of the late John. Colby* c;r _ DIED- ~ , On the 1 ith lust— at Tunbrid e-weit3, Gordon Bremer, K.C.B. K.O 1 - 1. 8. the or ..qusre, -street, ros% en , On the 136 inqt , in' Green G ' Rev ' . Dr. Spranger,.aged 74. J.)ear-A.dintr.- Ori the 9th inst.. at Clift,n-bous9, near Rotherhain, —T4ll°s. beth o the wife of •Ilettry Walker, Es' q a 63t On the 9th inr.t., at-Port Madoe Carson-oils/lire, 04 8 0. Elizabeth, the wife of J. Spooner,'Esq., of the above P4 A c.e, Es On the 11th inst., at Wadhuret, Sussex, Thomas On aged 75. Stro ud Lj On the 12th inst., in Alexander-square, Brompton, ncoln, Esq. . qi , s t, for - Suddenly, at Brentford-bridge, Captain Sialca . i merlyoftlLL.Loyal Horse Guards aged 71. .—_-- of -- ..1 lloecion: Printed and Publiied by .11.111E.I.:() l'1;L;-, i i 2, +ti,t,'ar in - 1 12 . Strand, Printer. et The Sus (Vice, ty Of , I Strand,the Precinct of the Savoy - i n tile GQIIII Bliddleiez. Saturday, Februaryil6, 1850. :~ ~, THE S LONDON, SAT EBRUARY 16, 1850.