The Sun. — London, England, 1850-02-16 00:00:00

IMPS RIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 15. Tho Loan CruacELLoa took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the solicitor to the Fishmongers' Company, praying that their Lordships would permit the officers of the House to give evidewe at a trial about to take place in the Court of Common Pleas. On the motion of the NOBLE and LEARNED LORD, the ' prayer of the petition was granted. The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD also presented a petition from the Kirk Session of Lanarkshire against .Post-office work on a Sunday. The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE Presented a petition from some plale in the county of Down against the national system of education in Ireland. BANKRUPTCY CONSOLIDATION BILL. Lord BROUGHAM postponed the second reading of this Bill, and explained that it was owing to the altera tions introduced by the Commons into the Bill of last year that the failure of justice at the Central Criminal Court had recently taken place.. . CRIMINAL LAW CONSOLIDATION BILL. The Norma and LEARNED LORD also postponed the second reading of this Bill. IMPROVEMENT OF ACTS OF PARLIAMENT BILL. The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD than gave notice that he should move the second reading of the Improvement of Acts of Parliament Bill on Monday. THE BARQUE INDIAN. The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL asked if the Govern 'tent had receive , ' any information of the cruelties alleged to have been committed on the female emigrants on board the barq iv, Indian, during her voyage to - Adelaide. Earl GREY sail that no official communication had been received by Vie Government on the subject, but it appeared from the usual organs of public intel ligence, that it had Leen alleged that most disgraceful scones bad token place, and that the colonial authorities had instituted an investigation, and the Noble Earl might rest assured that that investigation would be pursued with rigour, and that if parties had been guilty of any outrages they would bo punished with the utmost rigour cf the law. Ho admitted that cases of abuse had occasionally occurred on board emigrant ships carrying out females, but in ge neral the conduct cf the officers of those ships had been exemplary. In every case in which abuse had occurred, whoa it had come to th 3 knowledge of the Government, the Emigration Commissioners had boon instructed to enforce the exaction cf penalties against the owners of those ships, and to prosecute the delinquent?. He could assure their Lordships that no efforts were spared to guard against the occurrence of abuses on boar; f em;graut ships. EDUCATION—MANAGING CLAUSES. Lord STANLEY asked if the edoption of the mann ing clauses proposed by the Privy Council as the condi tion of receiving aid from the State was applicable to existing. schools, or only to schools hereafter to be erected? If only to schools hereafter to be erected. the extent of the injustice complained of by the Church would be greatly diminished. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that there was no rule adopted which deberred the Committee of the Privy Council from considering fairly any application which might be made to the few existing schools for an annual atlowane'. ENCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND). The Earl of GLENGALL moved for a return from the Commissioners z. f the Court of Encumbered Estates, Ireland. stating the nember of petitions lodged in their court to this date; the name of r flesh matter, the rental of the pronerty in each case proposed to be sold, and the gross amount of encumbrances stated to be chargeable thereon. Property to the value of nearly two millions Ind been already brought under the jurisdiction of the Encumbered Estates Court, which had been described as a court neither of equity or law, and those estates had been ordered to be sold, end would be roll, it was said, if the court could obtain seven years' purchase for them. This was a course of proceeding which would be entirely ruinous to the owners of these encumbered estates.—(" Hear, hear," from the Earl of Mounteeshel.) it was clear that such a course must be most unjust, and he he hoped the Government would not permit those sales to go on. He not press the subject at present; but perhaps next week the Noble Marquis would give him some information on the subject. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE believed that the Commissioners had taken the greatest possible precau tions to prevent an improper sacrifice of property. He bad no objection to grant the returns if the Noble Earl would consent to a verbal alteration in his motion. The Earl of GLENGALL thought that Government was bound to take every possible precaution to protect the property of the gentlemen of Ireland. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE assured the Noble Earl that there was no desire whatever to depreciate the vitae of landed property in Ireland. Lord BE'AUMONT feared that the motion of the Noble Earl would produce the evil which he deprecated, because the publication ef these returns would encourage the opinion that an enormous quantity of land was at once to re thrown upon the market, and this would keep &leen buildings. He could never teuppose that the Court would ever throw into the market more heed than would create proper competi tion. If they were to do so some steps ought to be taken to prevent them from proceeding in a course unjust alike to the landlord and his creditor. He firmly believed that the value of land would very soon be raised to nearly its former amount in Ireland as well as in England, anti he did not doubt but that the Court • would defer sales to that period. Lord CAMPBELL hoped the observations of his Noble Friend would go forth to the world, and he did not doubt but that they could raise the pries of mortgavad land in Ireland to a high rate. He believed the Commissioners had exercised their discre tion in a manner not only creditable to themselves, but acv tnt.igeous to the owners of encumbered estates, and to their mortgagees. After a few words from the Earl of GLENGALL and the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, the motion was agreed to, and their Lordships o rijourned. Ago HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 15. ' The 'SPEAKEIt took the Chair a few minutes before Four o'clock. • • EDINBURGH AND ABERDEEN RAILWAY. Mr. COWAN presented a petition from the Edin burgh and Aberdeen Railway Company. praying that the period for the second reading of the Bill may be ex tended. SUNDAY LABOUR IN THE POST-OFFICE. Mr. MACDONALD presented a petition from Balli nailoe praying for the cessation of Sunday labour in the Post-office. Several other similar petitions from places in Scotland were presented. ATTORNEYS' CERTIFICATES. Mr. HENRY presented a petition from attorneys' in Bury, praying for a repeal of the duty on attorneys' certificates. AGRICULTURAL PROTECTION. Mr. CUMMING BRUCE presented a petition from Rose in f :your of agricultural protection. PRIVATE BILLS.—SECOND READINGS. The following private Bills were read a second time, and ordered to be committed:— D=4c and Perth and Aberdeen Railway Junction. Liverpool, Crosby, and Southport Railway (,Deviations, Enlargement of Statics', Zee.) Liverpool Docks. Newcastle unon Tyne Improvement, Amendment of Acts, and New Street:. York and North Midland Railway. MARRIAGE. WITH A DECEASED WIFE'S SISTER. Sir R. INGLIS presented a petition from Kelso against the Bill for legalizing marriage with a deceased wife's sister; also petitions from places in Surrey, Whit burn. in the county of Durham, and Middlesex, praying for the cessation of llbour on Sundays in the Post-office. KIDDERMINSTER ELECTION. A petition was presented from Kidderacinsttr, com plaining of the return to the writ for tte last election for Kidderminster. COUNTY FINANCIAL BOARDS. Mr. BROWN presented a petition from Ormskirk praying for the establishment of county financial boards. MINISTERS' MONEY IN IRELAND. Mr. MO SELL presented a petition from Limerick complaining of the impost ealled ministers' money. MALT DUTY. Mr. SOTHERON presented a petition from Middle sex praying for the repeal of the malt duty. RETURNS FROM THE BOARD OF TRADE. Mr. DISRAELI rose to ask a question of the Presi dent of the Board of Trade of which he had yesterday gives notice. It related to the returns of the department ovir which he presided, and be wished for some explana don of the reason of the delay of the publication of the monthly returns. At the present moment, in the middle of the month of February, the returns for the month of December were not yet published. There was also another point which, if the Right Hon. Gentleman had been in his place yesterday, he should have asked him, and that was why the delay had taken place in the cir culation of the summary, as it was called. There was also another point on which be wished for some satis factory explanations. He spoke of the digested re turns of the Board of Trade, which were called tables relating to the revenue acid commerce of the country. The returns which had been presented to the House re specting the trsde and commerce of the country only went up to the rear 1847, and he wished to know whether the Government could adopt any means by which returns of such great importance could be brought up to a more recent period. Returns of the number of spirit-shops in Dublin, of the number of temperance coffee-shops in London, and a series of returns of the number of brothels in Bristol, Manchester, and other cities had been given, and he wished to know whether the Government thought these of more importance than the returns he had mentioned. Mr. LABOUCHERE said the Hon. Member was under a misapprehension in supposing that these re turns had been presented at a later period than usual. Ever since 1835 they had, with only one exception, been laid on the table of the House on the 10th February. The presentation of the returns, besides, did na depend entirely upon ttie Board of Trade, because they had to wait until the different departments sent in the neces sary information to make them up. To prove that there was no unnecessary delay at the Board of Trade, 14th)he might mention that it was only yesterday (the that the Excise returns, which were comprised in the paper he had just laid on the table, wore received attbe a*d of Trade. The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to ask him why the digest account of the Board of Trade only Caine down t) the end of the year 1847. It was quite true that it only came down to the end of 1847, but this information, which had now been presented to the House of Commons for a gr. al; many yearn before the statistical department of the Beard of Trade was in in existence, had always been one year more in arrear than it was now.—(Hear, hear.) The statistical department of the Board :.f Trade, therefore, had suc ceeded in abridging the period at which this return was forthcoming by one year. The Hon. Gentleman was pro bably aware that this return was divided into two parts, being comprised under the heads of section A and section B. The latter had already been delivered ; the other, which related to the trade and finance of the country, would be ready iii a short time, prhaps it would be on the table of the House in a fortnight, and it would bring that por tion of the account down to the end of the year 1848. The Customs and every other department of the country had always evinced an anxious desire to furnish these important statistics to the House at the earliest possible moment, and the Honour able Gentleman and the House might rely upon the Board of Trade delivering them in immediately after they had had an opportunity of testing their correctness. CONTRACTS OF SUPPLIES FOR THE COLONIES. Mr. SCOTT wished to inquire of the Under• Secretary of the Treasury whether any contracts had been entered into by the Government for the supply of the colonies, and whether any dispatches had been received with re spect tl such contracts ? Arr. HATTER said that no such contracts had been entered into, and that no dispatches had been received, but that as soon as they came to hand, if such dispatches were received, they should be laid upon the table. LAW OF LANDLORD AND TENANT. In reply to a question from Mr. CLENIEN TS, it was stated that a Bill was in preparation for the amendment of the laws regulating the property lactivecn landlord and tenant. COST OF EMIGRANTS TO NEW SOUTH WALES. Mr. SCOTT wished to know whether the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary at the head of the Home Depart ment had received any returns respecting the cost of an emigrant ship, amounting to 3501., which it was de sired to draw from the funds of New South Wales, and to the expenditure of which the colony objected. Sir G. GREY said that no such returns had been re ceived, but that he expected them in a few days. The colonial funds would not be applied to the emigration of any person convicted of crime. CORONERS' INQUESTS IN IRELAND. Mr. P. SCROPE rose to put a question to the Secre tary fir Ireland, respecting the 590 coroners' inquests held last year in Ireland, according to the report of the Poor-law Commissioners, in which verdicts of death from want were recorded. He had to ask whether the Poor law Commissioners had made inquiry into those 590 cases, and whether they had in any one of those cases of death from want found that one single death had been occasioned by such an amount of neglect on the part of the relieving officers as to warrant them (the Poor-law Commissioners) in instituting criminal prosecutions against those parties. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said teat certainly it was without doubt that ma•iy persons had died in Ireland on whom the verdict cf died of want had been passed. He believed it was not the practice generally to hold in quests over persons who (Eel in workhouses. REGISTRAR'S OFFICE (BANKRUPTCY) BILL. Mr. HENLEY wished to ask the Attorney-General a question with regard to the Bill which he had asked the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to postpone in the early part of this week. The Bill would necessarily take some time in discussing, and he wished to ask the Lion. and Learned Gentleman if ho would undertake not to ge on with the Bill to-night if it did not come on until late? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that he certainly would not go on with the Bill if it did not come on be fare twelve o'clock. DANISH WAR.—RENEWAL OF BLOCKADE. Mr. SANDARS said that, as the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs wag not in his place, he should put the question to the Noble Lord on Monday night; or, if he were not then present, to any Minister who might happen to he there. Mr. DISRAELI said the question of which Mr. San ders had given notice pas as follows:—" To ask the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, if it be true that the Danish Government has refused to renew the armistice of the 10ile of July last; and, if so, whether the Noble Lord considers as a natural consequence the renewal of the blockade cf the Prussian ports ut the Baltic and the Elbe." Now he (Mr. Disraeli) would ark the Noble Lord the First Minister whether it was the Danish Government that had refused to renew the armistice? Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the Danish Go vernment had not refused. ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION. Mr. EfORSNIAN said that, instead of the motion of which he had given notice, he should move for the pro duction of the proceedings of the Ecclesiastical Commis. sion relative to the matter of the secretaries. DISTRESSED UNIONS (IREL tiND)-ADVANCES • AND REPAYMEN r OF ADVANCES. The House then went into Committee, end Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose to propose certain resolutions respecting advances and the repayment of advances to distressed unions in Ireland, and in doing so said he would endeavour to spare the Committee the necessity of going into any deesils on the subject, and confine himself to a state ment of general views concerning the state of Ireland, and the grounds on which the Government thought it right to propose the resolutions he was about to submit. For many years the condition of Ire land had been lamentable in many respects, but no remedy of the Legislature could be made applicable t the evils which existed. A great number of the la bouring classes in that country were in the receipt of no wages, and depending for their livelihood upon the cultivation of small plots of ground ; a; some seasons of the year they suffered great distress. which had produced much crime. Whilst entering into the policy which of late years bed been adopted, he would state that the failure of the potato crop and the consequent famine which had taken place, had produced evils with which the Legislature had as yet been unable to deal. An immense alteration had tab en place in the state of the country, and on one hand it was no doubt gratifying to find that we no longer have, to any consid-rable ex tent, those outrages and murders which were formerly so prevalent, while, on the other hand there had been the greatest disposition upon the part of all persons of property, whether landlords or tenants, to preserve the lives of the great mass of the people under the pressure of an awful calamity. This change bad taken place through no influence of the Legislature, but the interpo sition of the Legislature may assist the country in its present transition state. But in doing so the Legislature must always he, guarded against two great dangers—one was not to impose too great burdens upon the property of Ireland, or the people might be discouraged from cultivating the soil, and the other not to assist with too much liberality the poor labourers who had been deprived of their labour by the failure of the potato. Having said thus much, he would now proceed to state what he thought was a fair encouragement to hope for the future. He haller fire him the reports of a number cf officers eigaged under the Beard of Works in the different counties in Ireland, some including the distressed counties , and, with the exception of the county cf Clare, they generally bear testimony t) an increased desire on the part of_the people to cultivate the land. With respect to two of these couefe3 which they had heard of as being most distress( d, the reports state that although there was much land untenanted, yet there would not he any great difficult) , in procuring tenants at a reduction of 25 per cent on the previous rents. He had likewise reports with regard to the fisheries, and they all geve very satisfactory accounts of the visible improvements in the country. Now, he held in his band a return of the ex penses incurred during the f cur last months of last year including the months of October, November, December, and January. During October the decrease of 48,0001., during November 40,000/., during December 40,0001., and in January 7,0004 making a total of about 188,0001. The return with respect to the relief given to persons out of doors was much the same, the whole numbers showing that the reduction of these persons was in the whole as many as 405,341 during the same period of four months.—(Hear, hear.) This was ' owing to various causes, for it appeared from the several reports of the secretaries of the different poor-law unions that this decrease had arisen partly from a better under -standing of the principle of the poor-law, partly from a desire to decrease expenses, partly from a desire to carry the law into effect, and an acquired discrimina tion in the discovery of imposture.—(Hear, hear.) The indoor relief had been rather increased. In De cember, 1848, it amounted to 14,902/., and in 1849 it was 18,2061., being an increase of 3,2941.; but there was a decrease in the outdoor relief, in the month of De cember, amounting to 2,8671. The total indoor and out door relief had been respectively 297,918/. and 147,397/. That, certainly, so far was satisfactory, as it showed there was an improvement even in those districts which were considered the first. Now, in proceeding to consider this question, he should state that of the opinions which had been given by various persons in Ireland from whom they had received reports, there was none that was more prevalent than the state ment, that the burdens arising from the expenditure on the loan of former years now imposed such heavy cost on many unions in Ireland, that although they might be able to bear the burden that arose from the relief of the poor, they were not able to sustain at the same time the repay ment of the loan. He would now state what had been the loans which had been made of late years to the unions in Ireland. Beginning with 1839, the sum of 1,225,000/. was raised for building workhouses in Ireland, 47,000/. being allowed to be deducted from li' for mismanagement in construction of the workhouses. Th e next pu bli c d e b t was for labour in the spring of 1846. The sum of 476,000/. bad been advanced, of which 238,0001. was re mitted, and the other half spread over 20 half-yearly instalments. Shortly after 4,850,000/. was advanced, of which one-half was afterwards spread over 20 half yearly instalments iu a similar manner. A sum was ad vanced for temporary relief, of which my 953,000/. was required to be paid; the remainder had been remitted. In the August of last year an additional sum was authorised to be advanced of 60,000/. The sums which were at the present time due from Ireland were--first, 1,131,000/e —en ad ditional sum of 100,0001.—a sum advanced for work houses 158,0001.—a sum advanced the 9th of Victoria 2,305,000/.—the sum advanced for temporary re lief upwards of 700,000/., amounting in all to 4,483 : 000/. There was a proposal made, which had been sanctioned by an Act of Parliament, to enable the Irish counties to extend the time of payment over 20 years, upon applica tion, end there was also a provision to shorten the time. Six counties had applied to have the time ex tended, and two to have it shortened. The 'tete of the c o un ti es i n Ir e land was very varied. While some loans bore interest, there were others ou which no interest was required, and he proposed that the same arrangement s hould be continued—that the loans which wer e li a bl e to i n t er est should continue to pay i t, and that those whioh were not should be exempted from the payment of any. There were other heavy charges upon some unions, which prevented them making exertions to provide the necesta,ry workhouse accommodatioa for the poor, and to give relies to the destitute. He alluded to the contracts which had been made during the period of famine for the supply of goods and clothing to the work houses. The unions hid refused to pay the contractors owing to their impoverished condition, and the consequence was that in several workhouses the effects had been seized upon, and the guardians were obliged to pay 61. per cent. upon the sum duo, in order to prevent the effects being disposed of. Now it appeared that these difficulties were mainly owing to the famine, and if they could be relieved from them they would be able to begin afresh, and thereby carry into effect the due administration of the poor-laws. Such ie the opinion of the Poor-law Commis sioners, more esEecielly of Mr. Power, who is now in this country, who had repeated his opinion that a little assistance would enable several unions to build temporary workhouses, and by the ap plication of the workhouse test greatly to diminish the expendit ire. Such belog the case, Government thought it advisable to propose that there should be added to the sum already advanced an amount which would make the total advances amount to the sum of 4,483,0001. fur the purpose of assisting the unions and enabling them to discharge their liabili ties, and which should be repayable by instalments in forty years. According to the accounts they had re ceived the general debts of the poor-law unions in Ireland were diminished between September and De cember by no less a sum than 100,0001., but the distressed unions, which were about thirty, had been uraele to effect any reduction in their liabilities. At the end of December last the debts, besides those due to the elec toral divisions, amounted to 270,0001. ; and the Poor la .v Commissioners were of opinion that, if these debts could be discharged, not only would they be able to carry on the due administration of the unions, but in some cases it would enable the Poor-law Commissioners to make the divisions in accordance with the report of the Boundary Commissioners, which otherwise they might not be able to do.—(Hear, hear.) Now, it was deemed advisable that the unions should be divided into electoral districts. Some of these districts bad been already arranged. Eight were in course of formation, and nine had already been formed. In these districts it had been reicertairel that the law had been fully and wisely carried into effect. He would now state to the House what had been the result of the formation of these electoral districts upon the popula tion. [Sir George Grey here reminded his Lordship of the reduction of the debt of the unions.] Yes; the debt of the several unions he had to state was about 270,000 L, which had by subsequent outlay been in creased to 370,000/. The whole amount of the debt of the several unions was 4:783,000/. The em stint actually required to be liquidated was about 250,0001., of which sum about 150,0001. had been de frayed, and beyond which about 50,0001. more was already prepared for payment, being, he believed, now in the hands of the several guardians. Much cf the business which had been transacted in these unions had been concluded under the authority of several of the Acts of Parliament by which the affairs of the Irish unions bad been of late conducted.—(Elear.) But he must now state what was their opinion of the workhouse test upon the population at laree.—(Hear, hear.) On the Ist of January last it appeared that in England and Wales there was about 1 in 15 receiving relief from the poor-rates, whereas in Ireland. in the mouth of December, there was only 1 in 27 receiving poor relief. He therefore thought they should not be acting im prudently, but wisely, it they enabled the poor law unions in Ire!and to provide themselves still further with workhouses. Now, therefore, the proposel he had to make was, in the first place, that the general sums which had been advanced to Ireland, beginning with the workhouse h acs in 1839, and going on to the advances made in 1846 and 1847 and subsequent years, should, when it was desired, and where the pressure on the poor. law unions appeared to be mani festly great, bc converted into consolidated an nuities, and be payable with interest where interest it; due. The next proposal was, that the sum of 300,010/. should be advanced for the purpose of enabling boards of guardians, under the the direction of the Poor-law Commissioners, to pay off the debts incurred for food and clothing, during the periods of distress. (Hear, hear.) There veva now a prospect of Ireland being able to recover from that very great depression under which she had long laboured, and to enter upon a new social career. It was evident, if they were to look to that state of society which existed in Ireland from 1768 to 1815, they would be only looking to the recurrence of misery and blood shed, the people being utterly destitute of those means of comfort to which the civiliz -d nations of Europe were accustomed. There had not been those sums expended in farm buildings and in improvements which the landed gen try in England and Scotland are accustomed to make by agreement with their tenants; there had not been that regularity in the payment of the farm labourers which ought to be the source of maintenance to them. Everything there had been dirorder and disorga nization. Hence arose those crimes and disorganiz tion which seemed beyond the power of legislation. to amend. Those things were not for them to dispose of, but he (the Noble Lord) hoped that Ireland was ap proaehing to that time when society might be constituted in a better manner, in which landlords, farmers, and peasantry, would unite to make her a happy and con tented country.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord concluded by moving a resolution embodying the proposition awn ciated in his speech. Mr. F. FRENCH said he could not agree with the Noble Lord in the discredit which ho had thrown upon the landlords and truants in Ireland, to whose disunion ho had alleged many of the evils in the country were to be attributed. He looked upon the proposition of the Noble Lord with great suspicion, considering it fraught with ills fir Ireland, but pregnant with benefits for England. Mr. MONSELL represented one of the most dis tressed counties in Ireland, and he felt bound to tender to her Majesty's Government his best thanks for the course they bad adopted. He differed from the Honourable Member for Rosscommon, in thinking that this measure was not a liberal one; he thought it was greatly so, and that the best thanks of the people of Ireland were due to the Government for bringiug it forward. The Esrl of ARUNDEL and SURREY adverted to the conduct of the Kiirush Union, and expressed an opinion favourable to the proposition of the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, Colonel SIBTHORP could not support the resolutions, and would take every opportunity to oppose them. Mr. P. SCROPE said that he highly approved of those resolutions, as they as much concerned the interest of the peopl of England as the Irish; he therefore thought that the people of this country should see that these re solutions were fairly carried out by the boards of guar dians. He should, .however, say that ho differed from the Noble Lord when he asserted that there was a con siderable reduction in the poor-rates. If such were the case, he believed that it was effected by the denial of relief to the p;or in those unions to which the Noble Lord adverted. Yes, the unions of Kilrush, Scarry, Ennistymon. and Westport were witnesses of those re ductions, cffe,:ted thronk;la the unwarrantable means of denying relief to the poor applicants. He had been in formed that, at the time that out-door relief was denied, the diet (riven in those workhouses was not such as was prescribfd by the regulations of the Poor-law Commis sioners; and that the result was that the poor, who would otherwise necessarily have made application, were deterrei by the numerous deaths in those workhouses, occasioned by bad diet, and therefore took as a choice to risk their lives iu their huts and hovels, and by the ditch side, rather than go into such charrelhouses. Mr. CLEMENTS said that he considered that every Irishman owed a deep debt of gratitude to the Noble Lord for those most beneficial measures that he had in troduced. He certainly objected to the amount of money granted to the unions in the wc►t, because he felt assured that it would be very difficult to carry out the law in those unions. He thought that it would be much more beneficial if the waste lands would be reclaimed by a grant, and that they be made exempt from the poor rate for some years. This project would give employ ment to the poor, and would be productive of general utility. Lord CLAUD HAMILTON said that he fully con curred in the system of giving employment to the poor, and hoped that the Noble Lord would take it into con sideration. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to know whether this grant of 300,0001., with the debt of 4,783,0001., is to be converted into consolidated annuities, and, if so, he looked upon it as a most dangerous system of finance, particularly when it extended over 40 years. He per fectly concurred with the resolutions, with the exception of the system of consolidation. Mr. GR ATTAN said, that from the climate, soil, harbours, and geographical position, Ireland was not in tended by Providence to become a beggar, and he would join with the Hon. and Gallant Colonel (Col. Sibthorp) in opposing these resolutions. England should make a bold revolve, and nothing else could save her. Ireland would most assuredly otherwise pull her down.—(Hear.) How, he would ask, could England bear the drain which Irish miseries were entailing on it? A paper had that day been laid upon the table of the House on the subject of emigration. Well, how was that question operating in the case of Ireland. He foiled, by a return now in his hand, that 195,000 individuals had actually arri , ed at Liverpool from Ireland, whence they were driven by starvation. The land was being deserted, and did the House think that the masses who were thus forced from Ireland could be friendly to the interests of England in other countries? He hoped they would; but he should much rather, in a time of danger, see those masses happily located on their own suil. The difficul ties of this country in relation to the condition of Ire land were very great, and the question was, how were they to get out of them ? He would tell them—by not getting into them.—(Loud laughter.) The country was ruined, and it became a question, were they to keep it in this state? Such was the discontent in Ireland, that it required the Government of this country to keep an army of 50,000 men in that country. With re spect to the Irish " Protectionists," he might say of them, that they were Protectioni s t s now th a t they had nothing to lose, and that he despised m en w ho were pro tectionists of a miserable shilling a bushel on corn. The Irish Members were really of no use to their country. The bad landlords were a marked class—the bad land lords wore "men to be shot at" from behind the hedge —(Laughter)—while the good ones were free to walk abroad. He had found that. The misgovernment of the country was mainly the cause of the wretched state in which the country now was. Were there no states men in England to stop the evil, and save the United Kingdom from total ruin ? Was English statesmanship sunk into stunted insignificance ? Was there no Chatham—no Pitt—to rescue the country ? The tGo vernment and legislation of this c ountr y had des troyed he peace, the happiness, aye, even the 9nancial happiness of Ireland. He found by returns, that the revenue of Ireland had sunk down to ..198,000/., while the money sent out of the country to " absentee " land lords amounted to 4,000,000/. By returns which he also held in his hand, ho found that 200,0001. had been paid in the last year for fever and famine in Ireland. The Encumbered Estates Bill was now in operation in Ire land, and with respect to Vast he would say to the Government, if they sell up men, let them sell up the men who wore the cause of such a state of things as ho had been deploring in that country—let them do that, and not sell up innocent men. He did not think, with respect to the " infusion of new blood" into Ireland, spoken of by Sir Robert Peel, that the Right Honour able Baronet would live to see it. The Right Honour able Baronet imagined that an array of new menwould spring up in that country, like men armed cap-a pie, and springing forth from the head cf Minerva, but the Hon. Baronet would be disappointed. He ( Mr. Grattan) would again say to the House in the same language which had before given so much offence to some Ho nourable Members, " Take back your money;" it is not your money the Irish require, but juatice ; you make them beggars when you should make them men. _ _ _ Lord BERNARD could not but thank the Govern ment for the advance which it proposed in aid of the distressed unions in Ireland on the present occasion; and to the Noble Lord at the head of the Government he thought especial thanks were duo for having pro posed it thus early in the session. The distress in many of the unions was deep, and ho had no doubt the ad vance world prove a most seasonable relief. Mr. BRIGHT wished to make one or two observa tions to the House on the subject now under consider:, don. In most parts of Ireland, he was glad to be enabled to state, there were some improvements in the sadly distressed and disastrous condition of the peo ple over the last four yen's. He could comprehend the claims which some Hon. Members in that House had put. forward fur the 300,0001. which the Noble Lord at the heal( f the Government proposed to advance to pay off the debts of some of the distressed unions. Ile did not, however, think that the Noble Lord had sufficiently ex plained to the House how it was that there were such an enormous amount of arrears in some of those unions. While he was in Ireland, a few months ago, his atten tion had been fixed on the condition of one or two of the unions, and he found that the treater portion of the money due was owing, net by the occupiers, but the " owners" of the land in those unions. He was aware that there was not any great partiality by the owners of property in that country to the poor-rates, and he found that the occupiers were generally distrained for the arrears, while the owners managed to escape payment, and came off " scot free." He would read an extract to the House, which would show that ; and he felt that when the Government showed that an in crease was necessary. it was bound to show also that everyt'iing had been done to collect the arrears due. He would not mention the names of the unions, for certain reasons, but if any Honourable Gentlemen wished to know he would tell hire in private. In one union more than half the magistrates here de . faulters in respect to the rates due of them—(Cries of " Name, name.") He took it that those magistrate were careers of land. lie found, also, that both the Members for the countywere defaulters—("Name, name !" from several Irish county Members.) He found that one of the magistrates had made over to his mother his goods and chattels, SO that the poor-law officers could not take them for the rate—(Name). He found that another magistrate tramferred his stock to his son, and that his son's name was now branded on them, in order to defeat the poor-rate collector, and that case hod been reported to the Cattle, but the Castle took no notice of the matter, the party reported being in favour in that quarter. He found taat another magistrate sat on the Bench in his own case, and decided in that case. He found that another magistrate west from his own to another union, and helped his friend there to baffle the law, end that in turn his friend came to his union, and helped him to baffle the poor-law guardians of the the his "ice—n fever,case f ( but rates due—(Name, name). Now, there was another case which came under W. Bourke, who was occupier of 19 acres of land, and to his name he found this note of the collector— havel This no m doubt a n is reallyhe pi will pay."or, w 1! h hislle (Mr.family Bright) found that there was property its Ireland which was assessed to the rates, and that whoa application was made to a superior court upon the subject the result of success was very doub!f because ref some julgment debt which was set up. lie found that in the unions of Beliarobe, Clifdea, and Cast!ebar, the greet bulk of the rates was owning by owners, and not by occupiers of land. Those caws had been reported to the Castle of Dublin, and the poor-law guardians found that after those detalca tions of the magistrates had been reported at the Castle, the Castle took notice of them. Ho was not there to o bject to the advance of this grant of 300,0001., but he hoped it would be the last. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—An " advance," not a grant. Mr. BRIGHT—The Noble Lord says an " advance;" be it so. But he (Mr. Bright) hoped it would come on the men who owned the land, and who had extermi nated their people, and would not offer or let their lands on terms which people could take them at. An Hoe. MEMBER—Who are they? Name. Mr. BRIGHT knew it to be a fact. There was the union of Clitden. Last year that union was rated at 2s. in the pound, the year before at3s., and the year before at Is. Thus, then, it would be seen that the union of Clitden never paid more than 7s. in the pound fur poor rate. This year it was proposed t) rate it at 53. in the pound. He ;night mention to the House an instance of a gentleman who rented a farm in Ire'and, and who was rated at 17/. 10s. for his holding, a rate which some would call excessive. What did that gentleman remark . _ to him?—" They say," said be, " that poor-rates will prove Via ruin of Ire!and." All I know is, that a mann falturing concern with which I am connected is rated at 300/. Mr. MONSELL—On what valuatio❑ ?—(bear, hear, Mr. BRIGHT did not quite understand the Honour able Gentleman's meaning. This he would say, that if the Noble Lord at the head of the Government would adopt some measure t) give the poor-law officers power t) seize on some acres of land, ho would bring the refractory and defaulting owners to a sense of their duty, and would, by such an at of justice put them, at least, in the possession of those poor occupiers whose property was seized and sold for the ar rears, while the owner of the lar ge p ar k went unsca th e d. —(Hear, hear.) He repeated, if the Noble, Lord took from the taxes of this country, and handed the money over, 3 ear aft'r year, in aid of the distressed unions in Ire!and, he ought to give the poor.law authorities suffi cient power to seize on the lands of defaulters, and re tain them until the arrears were paid. Mr. H. HERBERT, Member for Kerry, was not much disappointed at the result of the Hon. Member for Manchester's tour, and was sorry he could not compli• ment the Hon. Gentleman in the words of the poet, the he Lai t 6 Return'd from his finish'd tour, Grown ten times wiser than before."—(Laughter.) The lion. Member did nothing by his travels but gather up what had been known and written long before his time. But what he (Mr. Herbert) complained of was the lion. Member attacking Members anonymously— attlekiog men, too, in their absence, and not daring to give their names; and attacking the Government at the Castle fur -ntg!cct of . duty. The Honourable Member also made an attack on gentle Men for not letting their lands to persons who were not disposed to give them what they required for them. Now he (Mr. Her bert) had heard much from the lips of some Honourable Members of free-trade opinions, and he certainly thought that this interference with gentlemen as to the letting of their lands was not consistent, Mr. BRIGHT—I mean to say that those gentlemen don't pay their rates, therefore that they are not entitled to the House. loourabl e Gentleman was Irishnot justified l a usympathydliEoßr landlord.. B 1 in . E t • R h i I re of called. a tTis thtaehee were w upon l House to support him in insisting that the names cf the two g en tl emen a lluded to by the Honourable Member for Man c h es t er s h ou ld bo s g t i i v g e m n a u ti p s ' ing it aldifasththeey w worst of c a l umn i es, an anonymous not, he he had made on the had no hesitation in calumny. After a few words from Colonel DUNNE, Sir W. SOMERVILLE said the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Manchester had fallen into a rot very uncommon error. Ho appeared to consider rate un collected as rate in arrear; but that was not tho case, and all the returns went to show that the collection in Ireland was exceedingly close.—(Hear.) If both the par ties to whom the Hon. Member had alluded were to be placed on the same footing, he did not see how that could be done, except by taking away the powerofditso traint as against the occupier. He would just ca ll th e attention of the House to the state of facts with re ga rd to the collection of the rate. The whole rate i m p ose d since the establishment of the poor-law amounted something more than 7,000,000/., and of that amount no less than 96 per cent. had been collected; and he believed that in England there was no rate collected in so close a way. The whole arrear was only 207,0001. That fact was sufficient to show that no reasonable effort had been neglected to collect the rate, and that the collection had been successful.—(Cheers.) With respect to the contract entered into in the Newcastle Union, the Commissioners had not the power to interfere with the contract when once made; but, under any circumstances, it was very doubtful whether they could properly have done so. He admitted the question was one which required a good deal of care and consideration; but he did not think any blame attached to the Commissioners. Ho was glad to find that the proposition had 1:0311 received so favourably by the House. He was happy to say that the aspect of affairs was improving, and that there had been a marked diminution of expenditure in the unions since September last; until, in January, the diminution, as compared with the same month last year, amounted to 70,000/.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that the time was not far distant when the unions would become self-supporting, and that re turning prosperity and a better state of things would render any further assistance by Parliament unnecessary. Mr. MONSELL explained that he had made the statement relative to the Newcastle Union for the pur pose of calling the attention of the Government to what he considered a dofect in the low. Mr. GROGAN denied that a two or three months' tour through Ireland gave the Hon. Member for Man chester any right to become a philosophical lecturer on presumed delinquencies of the Irish landlords, and challenged that Gentleman to move for the production of papers connected with the collection of the rate, that the country might know who the landlords were that had proved neglectful of their duty, and that the entire, body of owners might not suffer through the omission of a few. Sir H. W. BARRON said he felt pleased the llon. Member for Manchester had made his attack on the Irish landed propritttortr, and on two county Members especially, because it afforded the Right Hon. the Secre tary for Ireland an oppor t un ity of stating that Ireland, at least, hal paid a share of the poor-law tax larger than England had done of a similar impost. He denied that, as was assumed, the poverty of the country had been decreasing during tho last six months, and he maintained, that the cheapness of provisions by free trade measures was not of the slightest use while the people were loft without employment or the means of obtaining even the common necessaries of life. Free trade measures might do well enough for Manchester, but they had produced absolute ruin in Ireland, and ho would tell the free-trade party that, having produced that ruin, the people of this country would feel the effects of it in the increase in the taxes which must ensue. Sir WILLIAM SOMERVILLE rose to correct a statement which he made when be previously addressed the House. He then said that 96 per cent. of the rate leviable under the poor-law, since the last Poor-!aw Act fir Ireland came into operation, had been paid. In one sense the amount was under-stated, and in another sense it was over-stated. The case stood thus ; 90 per cant. of the rates so leviable had been lodged, and of the remaining six per cent. four per cent. had been carried to the arrears of the last rate, and only two per cent. ac tually remained due.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT said the statement of the Right lion. Gentleman had nothing to do with the statement he made. if they were to speak of Ireland as a whole in regard to the rat s levied, then it was a different thing from taking the amount levied in particular portions of it. If they took the whole of Ireland they would find that the averege rates were very low, less in fact than the average of rates in England. But what he said was that there were certain unions in Ireland in which the largest portion of the arrears for poor-rates now due were by the owners of the land.—(dear, hear, and cries of "Name, name.") Well, he (Mr. Bright) would name three—Cliffden, Baiinrobr, and Castlebar, where there were a considerable portion of such arrears due, and the reason given by the poor-law guardians for that state of things was the state of the law which provided for the recovery ef rates on the owners of land. The description he had already given of the law in that respect was a correct ore. If a landowner was in arrears they had to apply to a magistrate for an order, and then they had to go to one of the superior courts, where they obtained a judgment. That became a judgment on the land, and a debt which gave the union power to re cover from the laud; but the process was so tedious that in many cases he was told toat it was found impracti cable. The case might be, that neither the landlord nor the guardians were to blame for the accumulation ( f those arrears. In regard to what he stated about a certain union, and which statement the lion. Member for Kerry had called a calumny, and not only that, but a cowardly calumny, he was not prepared to gi,e up the names of the gentlemen he alluded to, and the reason of not mentioning them was, that they were gentlemen whose rates were in arrears, to whom it could not be imputed that they were so; and therefore it would be unfair to them; but that there were such cases in that union he was prepared to show, for he took down the particulars on the spot, from the anion book, and therefore ho was confident that what he had stated was correct. Ho should rot give the names of those gen tlemen to the House, because he was only pointing out facts to the Government, in order that their attention might be called to them. Lord NAAS said, after the assertion the Hon. Member had made, he could not see with what justice he could refuse to give the names of the parties. He had stated landed proprietors in Ireland were doing all they could to avoid paying their rates; that they had their pre mises guarded by their gamekeepers to keep out the bailiffs; and he asked the Hon. Member whether it was fair to make those charges without giving the class against whom they were made an opportunity of refuting them. Ise would there fire a:le the Hon. Member it he would state the r ames he had referred to, that a re turn might be procured, in order to show the truth of his aseertionr. In regard to what the Hon. Gentleman had said about the poor-rates being lower in Ireland than in England— Mr. said, if you take the whole of Ire land it might be that the average rate was lower than in England. Lord NAAS—The Hon. Gentleman gave the House to understand that Ireland was taxed in a less elegem than England—(Hear, hear)—which was an assertion which could triumphantly be re fated by a protest laid upon the table of the House of Lords last session by Lord ROSF, in which it was stated that the rateable property in Ireland was 4,214,3151., which was just Bs. 4d. in the pound, and about four times the rate of the local taxation in England.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. TRELAWNY said he could not think the state ment of the Noble Lord was correct, fur during the famine in Ireland England was not only paying the ex pense of its own poor-law, but also half the expense of the Irish poor-law.—(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Sir H. W. BARRON—It vva , a loan of four millions Ireland got from the Imperial Treasury, and not given by England. Mr. TRELAWNY—A loan to Ireland!—(Laughter.) When so much as 94 per cent. cf the poet -rates had hem collected, he could not understand upon what grounds Government sought this additional grant. He was some ,, hat surprised at hearing the Hon. Member fur Man chester talk of parties refusing to let their land at a rea sonable rate. He did not understand how a Free-trader could tme such lauguage.—(A laugh.) Mr. M'CULLAGII, knowing the state of I. eland, would net be duing his duty if he did not express him. self grateful to the Ministers for their proposal. He did nut deny that some portion of the landed proprietors in Ireland might deserve the reprehension of the Hon. Member for Manchester, but he knew something of the unions referred to by the Hon. Member, and he had no hesitation in saying that the difficulties would be found to have arisen from the properties not being in the hands cf the parties whoze names stood on the rate-book. In the Clitlden union the largest property was in theposseE- Lion of an English assurance company. It was unfortu nate that Hon. Gentlemen opposite should seem to make common cause with the defaulters. With respect to the question of local taxation, he believed the whole rate able property of Irelald was somewhere about 13,000,0001., and that the amount of rates collected fur the two years ending September, 1848, arid September, 1849, was 1,600,0 M., making the total charge on the rateable property of Ireland about 2s. 0. in the pound. That was higher than the average charge in Eogtand. Mr. TRELAWNY—No. Mr. M'CULLAGII—If it was, and he believed it war, the Hon. Member for Tavistock was scarcely jmti fied in misleading the House as to the charge for the poor of Ireland. Mr. H. HERBERT denied that either he or the Hon. Member for Kildare had identified themselves with the defaulters alluded to by the Hon. Member for Manchester. Mr. SADLEIR said, that as one anxious to preserve human life, be thanked the Government for the consi derate proposal they had brought forward. He thought the Hon. Member far Manchester had overlooked the Act of last session to remedy the defect in the law of which he complained. That Act gave very summary powers against, landlords owing arrears of rates. And if any fault could be found with, the powers conferred by that Act, it would be that they were excessive. If the Hon. Member for Manchester confounded individual in stances with the general practice, he would do great in justice to the landlords of Ireland. Mr. BRIGHT read the clauses of the Act of last ses sion respecticg the collect;on of rates. They provided that in the first instance a civil bill or decree might be issued against a defaulter by the assistant barriste7, and that it might be removed without writ or certiorari t a superior caurt at Dublin, where, aftsr certain forms, it would obtain the force of a judgment, and t Ike priority as a charge far the property. The Hon. Mem ber proceeded to say that the process was exactly such as he had described it. He had not spoken of the price of land let on reasonable tenure, sad his questions re ferred more to tho tenure than to the price. It was quite allowable for him to characterise as folly the con duct of a man who allowed his land to lie waste when there was a surrounding population without work. Mr. MUNTZ was not surprised that Irish Members should hail with thankfulness a proposal like the pre sent. But there was another party ta be consulted, who were not so well satisfied ; he alluded to the hard working people of England. He wished to know how long Ministers intended coming to that House for money for Ireland, without ever telling them what they thought was the matter with it ?—(Hear.) The famine was the excuse formerly, but the famine was not to last for ever.—(Hear.) Were Ministers always to hang their coats on that peg?—(A laugh.) Ho had re sisted the vote of last year, and had told them that there would be another vote this year.—(Hear, bear.) And now he told them there would be another vote next year. —(Hear, hear.) Ile was as desirous as any one of see ing Ireland prosperous, but his impression was, that Ire land would not be much improved next year. Were they to have another grant because of the famine? He wished Ministers to fix some limits to its effects. There was surely no famine now, when every one was complain ing of the lowness of the price of food.—(Hear, hear.) It was the duty of Ministers to declare the real cause of distress in Ireland. With regard to the present propo sal he should not vote for it whether intended as a loan or as a grant.—(Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL said the Hon. Member did not seem to suffer much from delicacy in speaking of Ireland. The Hon. Member must not have been present when he stated at any early period of the evening his reasons far propos ing the advance. He had stated that Ireland was not suffering from famine. The lion. Member said that the proposed advance would be a grant because there was no chance of its being repaid. They had heard similar language last year, but the House consented, neverthe ohu a l fd d o r afterwards noßirming ham, _o op position neverthe less, that the advance of 250,000/. then proposed should be made. Out of the 250 , 0001 . which had been so voted last session, 150,0001. had been repaid within six months; and that surely did not show that there was any extreme . d Member i t e w difficulty in obtaining the repayment of the Irish rotnead vances. He hoped that Hon. Members would then p a o ll s o i w tio t na h n e hde r e t s mo o i l gt u hh t a i t o t n tuh t ii o nl lkbtehree desirable.pH be necessary to introduce a Bill funded on the resolu tions; and every other Hon. Member, could offer any objec tion to see the proposal of her Majesty's Ministers fairly canvassed, because he believed it wou ld b e found that the circumstances in which that proposal had originated fully justified the favour with which it had been received by the House. - Colonel SIBTHOBP said that he would, on a future occasion, take the sense o f t h e H ouse on the subject. Mr. AL O'CONNELL said he wished to inform the Hon. Member for Birmingham that the evils under which Ireland suffered were mainly owing to the legislation of that House, and tie system of government pursued in that country. The resolutions were then agreed to, and were ordered to be reported to the House on Monday nev. PARTY PROCESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL. The House having resumed, this Bill ;vas read a second time, and was ordered to be committed on Mon- , day next. The second reading of this Bill was postponed (as we understood) until Monday next., THE COUR P OF CHANCERY (IRELAND) BILL. The order of the day having been read for the second reading of this Bill, Mr. 'll. PALMER, said he did not rise to oppose this measure, which he believed to be necessary for the bene fis Ireland, but t) offer a word or two in reference to what had been said a few evenings since on this subject by his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Coven try. It was a mistake to suppose that his Hon. and Learned Friend was not favourable to an improvement in the practice of the Chancery in this country. No ore was more satisfied that this improvement ought to take place than his Learned Friend, but the question was, how was this to take place? He trusted that the Court of Chancery in England would be reformed, and that a Bill for that purpose would be brought into Par liament. After a few words fcom Mr. HEADLAM, who said that he wuuld reserve his obso:vations on the Bill until it was going into Committee. Mr. STUART said that the object of this Bill was to alter the whole practice of the Court of Chancery in Ire land. If there were abuses in the Court of Chancery in Ireland, the Lord Chancellor had power to rectify them. They were going to do in that House what the Lord Chan cellor of Ireland ought to do himself. Why should they do so? Would any Hon. Member get up and way that the Lord Chancellor of Ireland had not the power to do all that was hU zgcsted by this Bill ? His Hon. Friend (Mr R. Palwerrliad spoken of a Bill for the improvement of the Ceurt of Chancery in England. If that Bill was to give additional powers t the Lord Chancellor of Eng land he should support it. But he should object to any Bill that was intend, d to alter the practice of the Court of Cnancery in England, simply because the Lord Chan cellor—whose conduct as judge of that Court had given great satisfaction to the public and profession—had the power of 'raking all recessary alterations in the practice of his Court. The Hon. and Learned Member then re ferred to the Irish Encumbered Estates Bill, and con tended that the Commissioners under the Bill wore per forming the duties of the Irish Lord Chancellor. Why should this be? The Lord Chancellor of England dis posed of matters connected with the encumbered estates in this country.—(Hear, hear.) Upon these grounds alone he would oppose the measure before the House and divide the House upon it. But look at the object of the Bill before them. It was to change the practice from proceeding by way of bill to that of petition. The Hoe. and Learneti Gentleman then referred to Sir Samuel ltomilly's Act of 1812, and contended that while it altered the practice of the Court of Chancery in reference to charity cases, in respect ti which the practice was altered so as to oblige the parties to proceed by way of prAition, it failed when the principle was made to apply to questions of title. After years of litigation and ex pense, the result was, that by the decision of the House of Lards, the party complaining was obliged to begin again and file a new bill. In this way a tremend ous injustice might be inflietel, and a better means could not not be invented of increasing litigation without the intervention of any direct cause for it. It did no.; conform to his notion of the dignity of the profession to which he belonged, and to the dignity of the Court of Chancery, that a discreditable class of practitioners should be tolerated. llis idea of a useful system of law that might be beneficial to the landlords of Ireland, was, that it should be expeditious, and next that it should be cheap. The Commissioners f.)r the sale of Encurnt ered Estates had not yet sold a single acre, aril Hero that his only re:..5 , ,n, he should have been justified in considering the Act under which they were appointed as a mischievous enactment. — (Hear, hear.) That Act was eating up the property of Ireland, and but few could stand the drain of a double set of costs which most set re exposed to. He had seen it stated somewhere, that in 16 instances in which there were suits pending in the Court of Chancery in reference to estates under the operations of the Commissioners for the sale of Encum bered Estate - , those proceedings had been stopped. Granting that to be the caw, he should like to knew in how many more instances those proceedings had not not been stopped. Upon the whole, he considered that they were trenching upon the duties of the Lord Chan cellor; and, secondly, that they were not doing so in the proper way. For those reasons he should move that this Bill he read a second time that day six months. Mr. HEADLAM. said that as it now appeared to be the wish of the House that the discussion of this Bill should be taken at this stage, he begged to make a few observations upon it. He differed entirely from the ar gument made by the lion. Member who had just sat down, first, that the Lord Chancellor had powers which this Bill proposed to give; and, secondly, that suppos ing he had such poe ors, it was an improper usurpation. This Bill provided distinct and new remedies for the evils which existed under the present system. In the first place, it prevented the expense and delay incidental to the mass of the pleadings in Chancery, by instituting a proceeding by petition; secondly, it directly affected the system of evidence upon paper; and thirdly, it pre posed a most salutary improvement, by giving power to the master to carry into effect the matters entrusted to him. These were matters the reform of which had long been felt to be a matter of necessity, and in his opinion this Bill was entitled to the support of the House, as providing the direct remedy which every Chancery practitioner had desired. Mr. KEOGH said that the Hon. and Learned Gen tleman the Member for Newark must have a wonderful regard for Chancery proceedings, if he thought they were of so expeditious or inexpensive a nature that the Bill before the House could not effect a change for the better. Et ery one acquainted with the nature of the proceedings in the Court of Chancery must know how voluminous the proceedings were. Firat, there was the original bill, then the supplemental bill; then, ie any party in the suit died, there must be a bill oF reviver, then there was a supplemental bill, and bill of reviver, and a bill in the nature of a bill of review.—(Laughter.) To exemplify the operation of the Act of list session he might state, that on one occasion he had to attend before the Commissioners, and it was necessary to produce the certificate of the Chancellor to show the state of the cause. Ile found the original bill, the extent of which was twenty-three skins of parchment, and he found a supplemental bill extending to eeventy two. There were sixty or seventy defendants in the suit, and one counsel had signed the answers of twenty five of them. No one who knew these evils practically would think himself justified in opposing the Bill under consideration; and yet the Hon. Member for Newark complained of having heard that only sixteen Chancery suits had been stepped. Why the Commissioners under the Act were only appointed in October last, and. short as had been the opportunity of jugging of the effect of the measure, he would ask how many Chancery suits, if left to the ordinary course of practice, would have been stopped in the interval?—(Cheers and laughter.) The House had beard an attack that evening made o❑ the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, and perhaps the Hon. Gentleman from whom it proceeded did not even know his name. They who came from Ireland not only knew the Irish Chancellor, but the English ones too—those who had been, those who were, and those who were to be. But with regard to the merits of the Bill itself, it pro posed, in the first place, that a simple petition should be filed, stating the rights sf the party, sup ported by affidavit, and the other party was immediately to answer. Then there was this very satisfactory course of proceeding, that viva voce evidence might be tak e r!, instead of the absurd practice pursued in the Court of Chancery. It also prevented a fraudulent defendant from frustrating justice; by increasing costs which he never could pay; and for that rcason he should support the Bill, and was glad that it had been introduced. Mr. COCKBURN said an allusion had been made to him; he admitted that hew as not profound in the know ledge of equity law, but he thought he was competent to give an opinion upon the proposed measure. It had been said by an eminent mar, that a measure might he introduced which would shake the Constitution, and the lawyers would remain in their cabinets, but if you were to touch a cobweb in Westminster Hall yuu would have the hungry spiders disturbed from their hiding places to oppose it. He had not the slighte t doubt that this measure would act advantageously for Ire land, and hoped the time was not tar distant when it would be extended to this country.—(Cbeors.) The Honourable Member for Newark thought that it was an encroachment upon the privileges of the Lord Chan cellor of Ireland, and thought that the reforms might be effected by the Court itself; but if they were to wait until that reform was accomplished they might wait for ever.—(Hear, bear.) The Chancellor had jurisdiction in the minor proceedings of his court, but a reform of this character rested with the Legislature. It was said that all suitors might be driven to resort to the original form of pleading; but it should be recollected that the judge was left a discretion by this Bill to decide whether that was necessary or not. He believed the reform now pro posed would be equally acceptable to the public and the majority of the profession.—(hear, hear.) He was happy that it had been introduced by his Hon. and Learned Friend, who was walking in the footsteps of his great and honoured father.--(Cheers.) The SOLICITOR -GENERAL said the objections to this Bill had been so fully answered by the Honour. able Members for Athlone and Southampton, that he did not consider it necessary to enter further into refu tation of them. It was said that the Lord Chancellor of Ireland could effect these reforms ; but he thought if it was left to be done there the reform would be but slender, and that an effectual remedy could not be obtained without the sanction of the Legisiature. His Learned Friend the Member for Newark knew that the House of Lords would not entertain a suit which had not gone through the regular processes, with out the sanction of a legislaiive enactment. The objec tion made by the Hon. and Learned Member was to the form by petition in place of by bill, but this was only a difference in name. The only real difference was that the surplus pleadings would be omitted. In fact it was only a technical system created for the purposes of costs, injurious to the public. It was perfectly competent for ' the Court to adjudicate upon tee merits by petition as by bill and answer. He took upon himself the entire re sponsibility of the Bill, and of every other to which his name was attached. He was asked whether he had the sanction of the Lord Chancellor of Ireland. Be had only to say, that he would not introduce such a measure without consulting that eminent judge. Ho had sub mitted it to the Lord Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls, and had their sanction to the principle and object of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) The present state of the practice was calculated to throw a slur upon the Court. He considered this Bill would be a great im provement, and hoped the Howe would affirm the second reading. Mr. WALPOLE wislv.d to ash the llon. and Iparred Gentleman one question. Ile believed there was a ge neral concurrence as to the necessity of some extensive ref Tin of the prece r.dings in the Court of Chancery iu Ireland, and &so of the Court of Chancery in England. —(Hear, hear.) But, seeing that . the present na3 not the end nor the means by which these reforms could be pro perly carried out, he owned that he greatly disapproved of a Bill like this present it , irp,i c'iscius9el in a r • with ,i.e tieiat;s a the quesi.ion. Ile should suggea, therefore, that the Bill be referred to a Select Committee —(Cries of " Oh !")—by whom it would be put into ouch ---- a shape as would qualify it for carrying out the object they had in view. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL could not accede to the proposition of the Hon. and Learned G01100:00. He knew well what would be the effect of sending it to te Select Committee. He would endeavour to adopt and' be embody in it any practicable suggestions tha t mi gh t Offered to him, and for that purpose would commu nicate with the Hon. and Learned Member for Newark and ethers, but he could not consent to referring the Bill to Select Committee. Mr. TURNER regretted that the Solicitor -General would not adopt the suggestion of his Hon. and Learned Friend to refer the Bill to a Select Committee. Wes convinced that the Bill could not be carried out in it s pre:cnt shape. He would not vote on either side. At the same time he is es most willing to give his assistance in the framing of a measure that wou ld really rerned9 the evils of which they complained. Ho thought that this Bill should be referred to a Select Committee, and that it would he more advantageous that many p ersons unconnected with the law should form a port ion of that Committee than that it should be composed altogether 01' lawyers. t : Mr. STUART said that it was not his in tention eau press his amendment. He would, however, in a :. stage, move to expunge every clause except t he 28 of which gave the Lord Chancellor power to make mall the desired alterations. Colonel RAWDON having cbjected to the Olen ment being withdrawn, The question was put, when the second reading Ws carried ey the almost unanimous assent of the Houire•L, REGISTRAR'S OFFICE (BANKRUPTCY) 13 i t to On the motion for going into Committee upon th ' : s •te ' Mr. HENLEY said that this was a measur e to 01- the office of Chief Registrar of the Court of BankruP tuf f pith the office rt . the Lord Chancellor's S,.cr e tary, 0 sa laries Bankrupts. He complained of the amount of bine c ureu e s t. sttached to these offices, both of which were This Bill would make one of these sinecures pert:mili. ers, He though that it would be much bettor to refer 010 Bill to a Select Committe e,formwhere it could be je seriously considered and put into a better lto we e the evils of the case. It was rather too bad for the Il et !' s and Learned Gentleman opposite to comedown with till:0 Bill for a first and second reading without favouring t e House with one word of explanation. He would, tin. )r de ; f ire, move that a Committee boappointed to On g , o f the best mode of dealing with the office of Registrar Bankrupts, now vacant. 3 Wad The ATTORNEY-GENERAL observed that 1 a rather inconsistent for an Hon. Member who expreteo. a wish for reduction to meet the proposition of theofini yernment by an amendment to refer the Bill to a mittee up-stairs. He would ask the Hon. Gentleinao what mode could be more acceptable of dealing Bill sinecure office than to abolisii it altogether, as t le e , of proposed? The main reason for abolishing the. registrar of bankruptcy was because it was a s 7e e nure. The secretary of bankrupts had not certainly at Pf e lett at many duties to perform as heretofore; but stilt 5 0 . an officer was necessary and could not be dispens ed ri a t cl- The secretary had sometimes very extensive correar once with various parts of the country to discharge';es he occupied a responsible position, and filled the e ss ea during pleesure. lie apprehended that no just r e , e- f eler could be assigned for rejecting the proposition now"; - to 111 r. BOUVERIE thought it was most desiralreeis do away with the office of registr ate for they had s evidence given before the Commfe.tee of which he — a re. Member, that such an office was a complete s ie ; ec a bler He, however, thought it would be much more des• c- bo th instead of uniting these two offices, which were to nearly sinecures, to place the trifling duties that aerator be be performed upon the shoulders of one of th e j t e , hid . registrars, with an addition of 100/. or 501. a yea r saiMrar. e eir , y . MULLINGS said the Act provided for sir"`fer, trews, and also in case a the death of the chief rug' s " if that one of the other registrars might fill the offic e ' the he could be convinced that the suggestion Wade Ij i, bo lion. and Learned Gentleman would lead to a aav' e b' (Mr. Mulliugs) would vote for his Bill. (le e OAS After a few words Lam the ATToateett-er— and Mr. HENLEY, f th ° Mr. I'. WOOD said it was true that the ate. ° het it Bill might be a saving at the present moment' thug would peree taate the office of chief registrar, a nd per' by attaching a useless offic e t o an oth e r one, vrcu ld petuate one of them. The House then divided, when there appeared 7 -- For the original motion For the amendment The announcement received with of the numbers was cheering. ....... 61 Bills Mr. LABOUCHERE then brought up the thre e fll of which he had given notice, for the regulation Ova. Merchant Service, Seamen's Fund, and Merehanl be nage, which were read a first time, and ordered t" read a second time that day fortnight. The House then adjourned at Twelve o'clecltr A PARLIAMENTARY DIVISION no d (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House rf a ns FYIIDAI, FEL 15. -R LL• . 0 REGISTRAR'S OFFICE, BANKRUPTCY ,- 1 Li est, l- _, ll Order for Committee read ; Motion made, attq A ir:" — 7 , proposed, ~ That Mr. Speaker do now leave the ro u t e to proposed, to leave out from the vor d wo rde “1 to the end of the Question, in order to add the : r ode be t , W Select Committee be appointed, to consider the ' dealing with the office of Registrar of Ban krup e o w - ' l ' vacant," instead thereof: Question put ti , e " Q T a b e a s t t iot" 11; proposed to be left out stand part of t louse divided : MINORITY—AYES, 5 11 7 1 cii, ger ir lobn Abdy, T. N. Hayter, W. G. Anson, Colonel inillh f ord John Bobbouse, Sir John 11° Baring, 11. B. Ilobhouse, T. B. Rus sell, ,C. Bellew, It. M. Howard, Lord E. RusSell, 1. ; Berkeley, C. L. G. Howard, Sir It. Shell, R. - , -",,,, r i of Boyle, Colonel Jervis, Sir John She lburne, .- Brockman, E. D. Koppel, G. T. Simeon, John f ir, Campbell, W. F. Kildare, Marquis of Somerville,S it l, i Caulfeild, J. M. Labouchere, Henry Spearman,n' in idle , Cockburn, Alex. Lascelles, W. S. Stuart, Lord ~' ..T. Craig, W. G. Lewis, G. C. Tennent, . _ c at. Dinulas, Admiral Lindsay, Colonel T owns hend,.. e l Ebrington, Viscount Martin, C. W. Watkins, Col Elliot, John Maule, Fox Willcox, O r°l% Ferguson, Sir R. Mulgrave, Earl Wilson, JAM eS , Freestun, Colonel Ogle, S. C. Wyld, Jara' adag io Grey, Sir G. Paget, Lord A. wyvili , mar l° Grey, R. W. P a l merston, V i s. TELL' Ilatehell, John P ar k er, John T u fhell. 1k., 0 0/ Hawes, Benj. P e lh am, D . A . Hill, Lord 0. MAJORITY—NOES, 61. , net Aglionby, H. A. G ra tt an, H enry SaIWOY' 1,01,7000 Best, John Greene, John Scholetleld, ci, Blair, Stephen Gwyn, Bowel Scully, Fl Brotherton, Joseph Ilardcastle, J. A. Shaft°, It* tie•'ara Brown, W. Headlatn, Thomas Spoo ner, ~,.• 1 .1. • Bunbury, E H. Heald, Ja mes Stanford,..r. s. Carter, J. B. H u d son, George Stan ton, IT Clay, James K eog h , William Stuart, W' el Cobbold, John C. Kershaw, James Sullivan, „... iv. Cocks, T. S. King, P. J. T r ed ' 11 Ralp h anc __, el Currie, Henry INl‘Naghten, Sir,E. Thicknessn: colon Dodd, George Mangles, It. D. Tr i oinO e 000 W. Douglas, Sir C. Manners, Lord J. Thorne ' Geo rge 0. Duff, G. S. M a th eson, C o l one l Turi lcr ;bny. ~,ir. ,,, Duke, Sir J. Morris, David Willo" t a t . tho Duncan, George Mulli ngs , J. It. 11 Duncuft, John Palmer, lioundell 11:ii0:°d1:'13V. *V Evelyn, W. J. Patt en , W. 10 °I. Fagan, W. Pilkin g to n , J a mes . TX if, I 'liner, Sir E. Iforster, M. l l . :l a o w lv d ci o c n n , , C ll o ' l . 0 I. l I I I O c u n , l . e e y r . i . 0 J; $ , r• Graham, Sir J. Ricardo, Osman ...-.:1 t h AUSTRALIAN COLONIES GRANT BILL. -- a re ',1,0. fort just been printed. Its leading provisierl9der Phillip be formed into a separate colon'', ar.gar t ad title of the colony cf Victoria—that the G ove- e leat ar 4 Council a New South Wales are to establish ,-„blishett districts—that Legislative Councils may be Tivest° ; r l; in Van Diemen's Land, South Australia, it r : : Colin e ',.. o Australia —that the Governors and LegislativA' We6t e ' r of Victoria, Van Diemen's Land, South am ilover a° 4: Australia, are authorised to make laws—th at ` - ( 1 rst es and Legislative Councils may regulate tolls oh. t Coo° . istrict4, alter constitution and duties of Dis tr e let 1,; ells, and number and boundaries of districts's"' t hat t'd toms duties may be imposed on any goods'yioviere General Assembly, which the colonies arn Col l ?: to establish, may alter rules prescribed thedewrw tbii; ell, and to vary its constitution—that l l " ..,acl ed General Assembly shall supersede those e ,":3 oa s Ei r e ; separate colonies—that duties shall not be le ll ,`"b treo""„ plies for troops, nor any duties inconsistent Wit Co °l l -; —and that power be possessed by Governors a lter t ells, with assent of her Majesty in Council, t ° f constitution of the Legislative Councils. [ADVERTISEMENIT.:I—HoIIoway's pills an t " - p ri eri°? fa I re ° 6 Cure for Female Complaints.—Women at differeni; o perh c no e life are subject to complaints which require a Pec u " 3 e to remove, and it is now an established fact, that there 40 iit t i hr so suitab'.e as Holloway's Pills, and their purifC. talc i • p g, render them invaluable to the maiden, the °ICI r n - y it r a l ;fr i t middle-aged; they are searching, cleansing, and Y e 'cfee l'Y so that females of all ages may take them with P!," dei/%, of and it is truly astonishing to find the benefit that z , ope c h l al io. taking a few doses, which speedily remove eve r ' oro v's irregularity in the system and establish health oar sop" Sold by all Vendors of Medicine, and at ProfeO Establishment, 244, Strand, London. BIRTHS G• F , 1°1113 016 On the Bth inst., at Saudgate, the wife of G. . • g no Esq., of a son. 4 li a Ca° On the llth inst., at Bath, the lady of C31 3 ' 4 " 52d Regiment, of a daughter. ~,, fo W6ter‘ On the 11th inst., the lady of A. H. Hall, •sq'' 0 cbto gate, Sussex of a daughter. On the 11th inst., at Rugby, the wife of the li °3 ' ( I. th Nap'er, of a daughter. e vi f e 0 , On the 12th inst , at Little Berkhampstead, vii O. Bus On k, the 1 Esq., of a dau 3th inst., in gh Upper Harley-str eet, ter .t he wife o f t L. Holland, Esq., of a son. ilr. MARRIED. On the 12th inst., at Eccles, Richard, Barton, Esq ,of Springwood, Lancashire, In _ 4m ill Cheshire, to Elizabeth, eldest daughter of Sir Devi bite' wow?, Bart., of Claremont, Lancashire. rnbrok° to eldest d c10g...,3011. neojer.! re ce tersb iret of On the 11th inst., at Kilgerran Church Edward Bearcrott, Esq., of Mere-hall, IN S c lbf , P(l.' Eliza, youngest daughter of the late John Fynone, Pembrokeshire. ,:3...............„<ir0niPt°1:1: .., -------- On the 11th inst., at Tuffo. e. w .im, Admir al Gordon Bremer, K.C.B K C H• g ore , 41 the On the 13th inst., in ' . ' • Green-street, Grosvenor.Sl Rev. Dr. S Springer, aged 74. fli °4. On the 9th inst . at Clift,,n• house, near Mother beth, 65, the wife of Henry Henry Walker, Esq• Elizabeth, the oge On the 9th inst., Rear- A-_ On the 11.thwi nifset .a oft atJ. Port\ssp,:ociroahndueorrc4,l:Csscia li r , nsosaferstvi,oi enTsabb4olve c , a sp 1 vita le e , Esq., aged 75. ' On the 12th inst ,11:11exanderisq Alexander-square, svoll ci Lincoln, Esq. • ma S n t i t y di o le f n t ly he , RatoßarleHntlred-Gburiadrgdes: aCgaepdta7inl.Sinl°3 oirstf f° r ‘ ...--- .n...,',n ,,, ,i; ; -J,::;--,:,„I „,,, ~ i - _ ~,ii- r a::."0 Jo 11 , ..t .. ~ 1 0 , ‘:(S ',,,1 .?: .... -- --ofilco, p l e. , 0 1 -., , rand, Printer, a'. The Szgt a pt Str2nd ' middi ' in the Piecinei et the 592•70 - in the 0110.11SAturday, February-Al6. 1850. THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 16, 1850.