The Sun. — London, England, 1851-04-15 00:00:00

c h eq uer, , t of g sr bt 'le be th°ljg a lci jest' thafeo a. Gent!ems!! abolishing nu t GOVern r°e,/1 n , aled the io: Y the P re o b bad s P o i ti a r li k with b I6 , obit better roar: Gen tleol n. fl y 8 , esP eci ' l e r w ould 0 , r the c ircli bis of Pre" Q ert ilill C 'Of sped ta l u fsir I't was of A deal f good o f the S ul nae o- re wa s ) erfeed 9 the 5 01 0 . ford th „,4 es L. t lessee ; to , 'Donor 00, tit ition tb taccessary then for hi m t o enter i n t o d e t a il s to show that eoie sureption of d ear co ffee had fallen off. The Chan of the' P Chan tin •—Neb . quer could not deny that the diminu -6;0,111 the consumption of coffee since 1847 had been teuoOlbs. That Wan' not caused by the high p . rice . of s c ountry, nor of consumption in this wart t tr o y f w p a o s w s e a r id to be in a state of great be°Hear," from Members on the Ministerial ati4 tyfriuthtee, tr: took that statement from the Chancellor Etehe qucr .—(L aug h ter. ) T ea was an article the Len hecame most in competition with coffee; but though propconsumption of te a h a d i ncrease d, still it was only in e Trtion t o t h e i ncrease of the populat i on, an d its use dim inution not be add uce d as an argument t o account for a mution i n t h e consumption of coffee.—( ricer, hear.) The r Cause of the di m in u tion was the adulteration th at had taken pl ace, b ecause t h ere was a Treasury tin. It Lite sanctioni ng th e a d u l tera ti on of c offee.—(Hear.) the s quite true the T re a s ury minute only permitted adoption of chicory, but the Excise officers made of distinctio n whether the adulteration wes effe c ted throu g h chic n•y or any other article. a was not only the colonial interest that remonstrated galost that adulteration. Those engaged in the foreign trade al , r 3 l O so objected to it. The Brazilians, as well as the _,nsdsl coffee growers, protested against it. Ia his ug r l tti loa it was a useless sacrifice of the revenue. Alt of articles were used in the adulteration, and the r_e,ea adulter a ti ng i t t h oug h t t h e y were qu i te justified What they did, and he could hardly blame them f they so when they found the Treasury minute saying ttu night adulterate coffee with chicory. The con- I C* by this meant was made to pay a high price for toe, ad article. If the consumer was permitted hoestte the adulterated article at a low price he might ha ve so much reason to complain, but it was not so; TterterPaid minagh price for an adulterated article. The chicorypt cl, tt a h 'llryt e was issued in 1840, when coffee was lel price, and the trade with China had been in thatuand tea was 3s. a pound. Then it was said , might be allowed to be introduced bec ause he paid t h e same duty as if it were coffee. Why, asked ter W ere they to allow coffee to be adul oteaerd' and prohibited the adulteration of every Etch e eiciseable a rti c l e ? The Chancellor of the said he di want Excice prose cetions quer • Nobody did; but d in the paper of that very day t er account of six prosacutions for the adul theatj'an of beer—why was there not a prosecution for do ad ulteration of coffee? There were also prosecu cssfe9efar the adulteration of pepper—why not protect W , in the same manner? He could not understand 4. 7, unless that the Excise officers were afraid of the 121131 e • He could not understand this pertinacious op position on the part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer red ' e withdrawal of the Treasury minute. As to the adulteration, of the duty it was not sufficient to prevent teration, and the continuance of the present system p ro e n et, hi his opi n i o n, f a ir to the honest trader, the (lacer , and the consumer.—(Hear.) M r• PBINSEP was not, eP the • ' he said, quite so ready to giv© • e differential duty as the Hon. Gentleman who had Just sat down. Coffee was an article that could not be and i ° without great expense, in a particular climate, r elyin g a particular situation, and for ten years arsons, hten the differential duty, had been employed in !en g i n . gitto a state of cultivation in Ceylon. He did 8, 4 k th at , for a double duty for their benefit; but he said 0 ,,,,t. 11 . 0 duty ought to be abolished gradually, and they tha' t `" , 0 adopt the same course of proceeding with coffee The had followed with respect to sugar. th "e CH of the EXCHEQUER said, tae oat 'nog stated the grounds on which his proposition th a "e on a former occasion, he could not do better e o i n n r , e Peat them at present. In 1846 the quantity of c 2 lal coffee imported for home consumption was ittheo,.ooolbs., and in 1850 it was 28,892,0001h5.; whilst fella same period the consumption of foreign coffee had a 4. 10,000 0001bs. Then we had from these colo „es 0 _ i , o n ooolbS, of which there was consumed eoloneio,iooolb's., and there was exported abroad of that • ea _ et coffee from this country 3,500,0001b5. In that aie 'e the protecting duty was no advantage to their colo- They produced more than was consumed here, t a heir the protecting duty did not secure them the price for tn article, for they had to sell it abroad. At the same . 5 the protecting duty excluded a very valuable de ;ription of coffee. The reduction of the duty might ;„05 be a benefit to consumers here, whilst it did no - '' e tr,3' to the colonial producer. As to the mixing the tha t with coffee, he had discussed the subject so often no would not trouble the House again respecting it, b'' r the more especially as the subject was to be again o ught forw ar d in that House. He was convinced he acl adopted that which was the best for the con- Sumer, and would be no injury to the producers in the colonies. tls .r. HUME could state, from an examination into s "le subject before a Committee, that it was very diffi '4ll to distinguish the difference between pure coffee and ea eae mixed with chicory. There was great adulteration Practised with other articles. He was sure one-third of the sugar used in this country was adulterated—adulterated for instance, with arrow-root and other things. Pepper else was greatly adulterated. Upon principle he ha no Objection to the mixture of chicory with coffee, if the Parties purchasing it liked to have it so mixed. He would tot prevent the sale of chicory, but he would prevent grocers selling chicory as coffee. A sample of pure coffee and of coffee adulterated with chicory had been f orwarded to him. He had tried both, and had found Very little difference between them.—(Hear.) For a long time Hunt's roasted corn mixed with chicory and a small portion of pure coffee had been found very palatable by a great many people. He would not prevent the use of it or of chicory, and hoped the time would come when free trade would be so far extended as to render excise duties and the interference of excisemen unnecessary. Mr. STANLEY wished to say a few words as to the difficulties under which the producer of colonial coffee laboured when compared with the foreign grower. In our West Indian possessions the production of coffee had all but ceased. The foreign countries that competed with us were Arabia, Java, Porto Rico, Cuba, and Bra -14:,11. But the real competition was with Brazil. In all that chiefly related to the growth of coffee—in soil, cli taste, and labour, Brazil possessed considerable advan tages over Ceylon. In Ceylon the soil was thin, gravelly and cold. Compared with Brazil, the land fit for the Frowth of coffee in Ceylon was of limited amount, while L. L ., 11 Brazil th ere was an u nlimited extent of alluvial land. Ev ery one knew that slave labour exi sted in Br azil , and he believed that no sort of labour was so cheap when the Public opinion of the country was not opposed to it. In . tr eeylon, w h ere the great ma ss of the population were 4l'andian, the greatest difficulty was found in inducing th em to labour. Coolies were sometimes employed, but nevertheless the coffee estates were never more than half s upplied with labour. It appeared from a statement with ,Which h e h ad b een f urn i s h e d that the wages of Coolies r 41,1 Ceylon w ere 20 s . a month, including l od g in g . To might be added 7s. to Bs. as the price of food. The c e ,eat of clearing land in Ceylon was much grea t er than in Brazil. In Ceylon it was not less than 31., while in Brazil it W as not more th an 25 5 . o r 30s. an acre. The coffee region in Ce ylon was inland and mountainous , a n d the ex p ense of tr ansporting coffee to the coast varied trom ss. to Bs. 6d. p e r ervt., while in Brazil it was only 2s. 2d. The vo y a g e r eal Brazil was one of two months, while from Ce y lon it waa one of f our or fi ve months, and the freight from Brazil was from 275. to 30s. a ton, while from Ceylon it was 31., had been 51., and even 71. 10s. a ton. He had Mentioned these facts merely to show the difficulty—he mi ght almost say the i m p o ssibility—of the Ceylon plater being able to compete with the planter of Brasil the duti es on foreign and colonial coffse were equalised. tras Mr. LABOUC HERE did no t think that the House Prepared to uphold protective duties on colonial a s a gainst a foreign coffee. The present moment , in the opi r,l°ll of many, was favourable to making the equa li-ation Proposed, The Hon. Member had alluded to the ad 7'tago which Brazil possessed over Ceylon , i n the sup ply of of sla ve l a b our. H e differed from the opinion which 1:100 . Member entertained on that point. Every one k 0 had paid attention to what was Ong on in Brazil). how insecure the whole system of slave labour n tha t country was. He regretted that the Hon. Member ;need to think that it was impossible for the cultivator i n e e f u 4 o w . ith free labour to compete with the cultivator , countries having slave labour. The Hon. Member 'aft also expressed an opinion that a discriminatingduty v e ught to be imposed in favour of Ceylon, otherwise the ; f lee plantations would cease to be cultivated. But that a s an old, worn-out, and exploded argument. tO ir. A CARDWELL, in allusion to what had fallen from v a l t en. Member for Montrose, said that the practice of ara - ap' e p ratie g coffee had not only discouraged the fair by A . ' "at had caused a considerable loss to the revenue si r ti Vi i tthing the amount of the coffee consumed. • BARING air , that when he was Chancellor of th e -Each s made of the adultera tion of t i ,cloors complaints were for coffee, and orders were consequently given to en a ee the law. Deputations from the trade then came, told him that there were two classes in the trade— ase who w ere h ones t an d o b e yed the law, and those who , Practised a dulteratio n; but they said they could frame 0 0 Excise regulation which w ould not interfere wi th trade and that the only course was to place all OH to like footing, and to suspend the regulation of the Excise which prevented adulteration. ~,,,, •WAKLEY asked why the Government should The adulteration in the particular article of coffee? 'he Hon. Member for Montrose had said that he could • !lot discover the difference between coffee and chicory. But there was no difficulty in detecting the one article fr om the oth e r by the microscope. At present the dis honest trader profited by the proceedings of the Go vernment. The Chancellor of the Exchequer ought un uesitatingly to withdraw the m inute of 1840. He had heaitatinn in saying that chic or y was unw holesome, a nd that it s constant consumption was attended with Pernicious consequences. After a few worsts from Mr. LOCKHART, Lord C. HAMILTON hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would yield to the advice of the Hon. Mem- her for Finsbury, who spoke with some authority on this point, and withdraw the Treasury minute of 1840. He Was astonished that a gentleman professing the free tree], h principles o f the Chancellor of th e Exche q uer `' tl elel do anything to favour the consumption of an article fraudulently sold as another artic le, and, ac cording to best medical authorities, delete rious in its nature, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said th em If , fi were strong medical opinions in favour of chicory e belie ve d c hi cory to b e nox i ous an d deleterious, he Would not be justified in doing anything to encourage its ' co nsumption ; hut that was not his belief. _ WAKLEY said, in explanation, that those who rid chicory by wholesale adulterated it to a groat ex tent with various articles, so that the trader who be lieved he wa s on l y m i x i ng w h at h e h a d p urc hased as !, I llry with hi s co ff ee, was i n f act ama l gama ti ng it with ndeleterious compound. The Right Hon. Gentleman , t he Chanc e ll or o f t h e E xchequer had su ff ere d f rom ill health last ye ar; h e (Mr. Wakley) feared very much il ..e Right H on . G ent l eman ' s co ff ee was too strong— itlestughter)—and that his illness was owing to his hay g taken t oo muc h o f an unwholesome ingredient. The resolution was thou put And agreed to. Mr. BERNAL then read the reso l ution on the timber d ut i es , which was passed without a discussion. The House, then reeumed, The CHAIRMAN reported progress. Repot to be received to-morrow (this day). SUPPLY.—THE NEW HOUSE OF CO AIxIONS. On the motion for going into a Committee of Supply, Sir DE LkCY EVANS, pursuant to notice, called the attention of the House to the present condition of the new House of Common:. His Noble Friend the Member for Beth had recently put some questions on that subject which had drawn his attention to it, and in consequence he (Sir Do L. Evans) had paid a visit to the new House of Commons, where he coweesed he had been much surprised by seeing the progress made and making in that which was reeled the ornamental por tion of the House. But the Chancellor of the Exchequer had put a stop to'ail that work for the present, and he thought the House ought to be very much obliged to him for it. The Hon. Member for Lancaster (M . r. Greene) had, it appeared , g one out of town for a few days, and Mr. Barry, the architect, had thereupon set about carrying on his notions of ornament. There were introduced innumerable painted shields and gilded eery ings, notwithstanding it had been well understood that the place wis to be as plain as possible, and furnishing as marked a contrast as might be with the gorgeous and gaudy ornaments of the H use of Lords.—(Hear, hear.) Instead of the chamber being like one for the delibera tion of men of the 19th century, it was more like the in terior of a monastery o f the 16th. When remedying a defect in the House with respect to facility of hearing in it—a matter which should have been originally considered and celcultved on—it had been found necessary to lower the ceiling, and in doing that the windows had been half closed, thereby injuring the light of the House. He hoped the Hon. Member for Lancaster would be able to tell them how all those changes occurred. He understood that the architect alleged that he never understood the House to express any opinion upon this matter ; but if it was not formally expressed, he maintained that such an opinion was im plied. The architect, however, having been entrusted with the construction of the Houses of Parliament, thought he was more responsible to posterity for his work than to the present generation. Mr. BRIGHT wished to know also whether the 8,500/. voted last year for the expense of the alterations was a sufficient sum for that purp ose, or whether it had been exceeded? Mr. GREENE said, with respect to the sum alluded to, Mr. Barry had been required by the Commissioners to make an account; but as the work had not been yet finished and measured it would be impossible to say what was the exact amount expended. In reply to the question of the Gallant Officer he should say that it was his impression when he left London that the Hence of Commons should be finished in the plainest possible manner, and with as great a contrast to the House of Lords as possible.—(Hear.) On that subject he had re ceived a written communication from Mr. Barry, in which he had stated that he was not aware of any particular wishes of the House with respect to the internal decoration of the new House. He (Mr. Greene), however, confessed that he had been surprised at the nature of the work proceeded with, and was thankful to the Chancellor of the Ex chequer for having stopped the work. The ceiling was so . far finished that they did not think they would be justi fied in scraping it off; and with respect to the shields hung round the House, their judgment had been sus pended until the lower part was finished. He confessed he did not approve of the course adopted by the Com mittee. He thought the House would have been better if left as it was, having only widened the galleries. There would be no want of hearing then in his opinion. In the matter of light. however, he did not conceive there would be any difficulty. They never felt want of light in the present House.l But, indeed, the greater part of their business was carried on by candle-light. Mr. WAKLEY asked whether any instructions, printed or written, had been sent to Mr. Barry with re spect to the decorations of the House? Mr. GREENE said no such instructions had been issued. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said when the experimental roof had been resolved on it was not intended to have it ornamented. Indeed he under stood that the whole of the building was to be as plain as possible, and that no further decoration was to be introduced. However, when he found it had been other wise, he at once gave orders to have a stop put to the work.—(Hear.) Sir B. HALL said a distinct understanding existed that the estimates furnished for the proposed alterations were not to be exceeded. The arms to be introduced in some of the shields, he understood, were to be the bo roughs of England. Now, as he represented a not un important one—which, however, not being a corporation, had no arms—(Laughter)—he would not regret if that plan were abandoned. He thought that the alterations would be found to be satisfactory; but the question then arose when the Members were to occupy the new House? —(Hear, hear.) The longer they were out of it the greater the expense would be.—(Hear.) Mr. GREENE said he had been informed there was a possibility of going into the new House after the Whiteuntide recess; but the walls of the lobbies and passages might net be perfectly dry by that time. There theirc apartments which they that onsidetattonthefa factwouldthe library and was other al necessary f''r are still unfinished. lie did not think it would be quite convenient to them to occupy the House before next ession. Si!. D. NORREYS denied that Mr. Barry had ever received any instructions with respect to the ornament of the House. As they had adopted a certain style with respect to architecture, they should have the details and ornaments carried out in a similar taste, otheraise they would be acting in a most absurd manner. As the House had chosen to adopt this style of architecture, Mr. Barry was quite right in adopting the style of decoration in unison with it, and had therefore been improperly stopped. He was not Mr. Barry's advo cate—he believed Mr. Barry had committed more faults than any other architect—(Hear, and laughter)— but he considered as Mr. Barry had perfected himself in that style of education which the country had prescribed he ought not to be censured for carrying out its prin ciple. He differed from the opinion of the Hon. Member for Lancaster about the uncoloured heraldic decorations. He was at a loss to conceive how the idea of heraldic decorations was to be carried out without using colour. He did not agreed with the Honourable Member (Sir De Lacy Evans) with respect to the fault he found about the decorations. He believed the decorations to be suitable, and in character with the design of the build ing. He would call the attention of the House to the wording of the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Member for Westminster. The words of the motion went to im pugn the professional reputation of the architect em ployed by that Rouse, inasmuch as the motion would lead persons to believe that the architect was acting in opposition to trie wishes of the House and the nation. He considered it was not fair towards Mr. Barry to create such an impression. Lord DUNCAN said if colouring was necessary, then Hon. Members had good reason to be dissatisfied with the House prepared for their reception last year. Then there was no colouring used; now, colouring was in pro fusion. tie wanted to know where the expense was to end? The first estimate was for about half a million; that sum had extendsd to more than two millions, and the Houses were not finished yet. He had been looking over some estimates lately, and the first item that struck him was the expense of the Orange street Water Works, for furnishing with water the new Houses of Parlia ment. when finished, He found that the supply was to be 260,000 gallons per day while the House was sitting, ar d 160.000 for the time when the House was not sitting. The supply was a larger supply than a town of 14,000 inhabitants required.—(H'ar, hear.) Mr. HUME had, some time ago, urged the House to dismiss Mr. Barry. After upwards of two millions had been spent the works appeared to be as far as ever from completion. As long as Mr. Barry could get money for alterations there w-uld be no end to the expense. The Hen. Member (Sir D. Norreys) had let out the secret—Mr. Barry had to finish his education.—(No.) He understood the Hon. Member to say something to that effect. But he must remind the House his pre dictions respecting Mr. Barry had been fulfilled. He said years ago, if Mr. Barry was not controlled he would construct the House of Commons in the same gewgaw style as he had constructed the House of Lords. The House was properly served for not taking effectual steps on the subject at the time he gave that warning. He did not, however, exclusively blame Mr. Barry; he blamed th- Committee even more for not having all the estimates before them before they incurred the endless expense. Colonel RAWDON said he had been requested by Mr. Barry to place his answer to the various complaints before the House. The Hon. and Gallant Member lead the following letter:— " Mr. Barry has not been made acquainted with any declared wishes on the part of the Members of the House as to the decorations of the new House sef Com- mons, and knows nothing of the existence of such a declaration collectively or individually. Mr. Barry is not persisting . in carrying into effect the so-called' in ternal decorations of the House, which was suspended on its being objected to by the Chancellor of the Ex chequer. Heraldry is absolutely essential to the charac• ter and the full expression of the Tudor style of the design adopted by Parliament, and it is the only means of giving historic interest to it, which, iu a great national edifice devoted to the purpose of the New Palace at Westminster, is most desirable for many reasons. A display of heraldry and suitable historic decorations has always formed an essential feature of the design and esti mates of the building, sanctioned by Parliament, and I have never received any intimation, either written or verbal, to forego the use of it." He supposed, therefore, that all these decorations had been sanctioned by Parliament, and that he was justified in what he was now doing. Sir R. INGLIS admitted the original estimate was much below two and a half millions; but expenses not in cluded in those estimates had to be incurred—for an em bankment, for a high tower to promote ventilation, for the purchase of house property, and for the erection of a o other building facade,r int richer and more extensive than that o f an y he any other country in Europe. He be lieved the money already expended was not more than half the sum stated. It was due to Mr. Barry to state that ho was correct in his original estimates, and that he had not dealt with twice as much as the sum put down in his estimates. He denied th a t th e H o u se had ever ex pressed a formal opinion, and there was nothing on the journals of the House to sh ow i t , on t h e su bj ec t o f the decoration of the House. He felt it due to Mr. Barry's reputation to make this statement. Lord C. HAMILTON recalled the attention of the Hon. Baronet to the statement just made that a con versation had passed between Mr. Barry and the Chan cellor of the Exchequer on the suhjeet of the decora tions. It was not exactly proper, although ho admitted the tenderness that ought to preva'l in speaking of a gentlemen in his absence, to hold out to the House a s t a tement that because no formal resolution appeared o n the journals the archite ct WAS justified in persisting in his objectionehle decorations. He agreed with the Hon. Member fit Montrose that Mr. Barry was not so much to blame as aseerecd. The Committee were to blame for not having in the first instance full estimates find limits from the architect. He hoped that the Committee would take care to have estimates for what was yet to be done. Lord R. VANE hoped the Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Greene) would come to some understanding with the Commissioners on the subject. Mr. J. E. DENISON said that the great question they had to consider was, who were the parties respon sible for the management of that building and of the ex penditure upon it. Nothing appeared to him more irre gular than the whole of the proceedings in that matter, and he entertained a strong opinion that the manage ment of the works ought to be placed under the control of some responsible authority. Mr. FRE WEN said that on the 28th of March he had given notice that he should, on the motion for going into Committee of Supply, bring under the considera tion of the House the distress which prevailed in the hop-growing districts of Sussex. That notice did not, however, appear in the votes of that day, and he wished to know whether he could then bring forward his motion ? Toe SPEAKER said that as the notice did not ap pear on the paper of that day, the Hon. Member could not bring it forward. He believed it had become a dropped order, and that the Hon. Member had omitted to renew it. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he thought it ex tremely - desirable that the House should know who were the parties entrusted with the control of the works in the new Houses of Parliament. - Trio CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said his impression was that the Commissioners were respon sible for the control of the works. He believed that the case which had been adverted to of works having been undertaken without a proper sanction on the part of th' Commissioners, had arisen from the fact that one of their members, namely, his Hon. Friend the Mem ber for Lancaster (Mr. Greene), had been absent from England at the time, and that another of them had been laid up by illness. Mr. GrREE NE said that the arrangement upon the subject was that the Commissioners should have the con trol of the works, suoject, however, to the approval of the Lords of the Treasury with regard to the cost of them. The case of which a complaint had been made had arisen from the circumstance just stated by his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He believed that Mr. Barry must have misunderstood the language which he (Mr. Greene) had used upon the subject. Mr. G. BANKES said that as the cost of these works was subject to the approval of the Lords of the Trea sury, it appeared to him that they were the parties re sponsible for any improper outlay. He believed that the wishes of the Committee of last session, with respect to the new chamber for the Members of that House, had not been fully complied with. The windows of that chamber had been painted, and as the windows had also been reduced in size, the consequence was that the room was at present so dark that one could hardly read in it in the noonday. Mr. HUME said he wished to know whether the Commissioners had required Mr. Barry to give in any estimate of the cost of the decorations of the new House of Commons? Mr. GREENE said he was not able at the moment to answer that question. The fact was, that thd arrange ments with respect to the new House of Commons had been left very much in the hands of the Committee ap pointed by the House to conduct the matter. Mr. HUME said it had been proposed that there should be an inquiry into the circumstances which had attended the massacre of the dyaks in Borneo; and he wished to ask whether it would not be just and proper to suspend the payment of the head-money until the House should have decided whether or not that inquiry should be instituted? The SPEAKER said that the Hon. Member could not then put that question. Sir F. BARING said he hoped he might be allowed to answer the question, although it was somewhat irre gular. The fact was that the Government had no power of stopping the payment of that money, which they were hound to pay under the provisions of the Act of Parliament. SUPPLY.—THE ARMY ESTIMATES. The House then resolved itself into a Committee of Supply on the army estimates, Mr. BERNAL in the chair. A vote of 14,6061. was passed for the charge of re ward for distinguished services of officers and sergeants. A vote of 42,0001. for the pay of general officers was agreed to. A vote of 52,5001. for the full pay of reduced and re tired officers was also adopted. A vote of 377,000/. having been proposed for the half pay of reduced and retired officers, Mr. HUME said he wished to know how many ol those officers were capable of returning to the service? Mr. F. MAULE raid he believed that the proportion of those officers fit fur service was very small indeed. But considerable reductions had of late years taken place in that vote. Since the year 1835 the number of the men had been reduced from 5.671 to 3,130, and the cost had been reduced from 585,000/. to 377,0001. After a few words from Mr. W. WILLIAMS, the vote was agreed to. 38,9931. for foreign half-pay and pensions. Mr. RUME said the longevity of these officers was ap parently so great that some doubt arose as to their ac tual existence. Mr. P. MAULE said every precaution was taken to identity these officers, the greatest part of whom lived in Hanover. Mr. HUME was suspicious of all foreign pensions since, iu 1834, he had seen a pension payable from the period of the edict of Nantes. Mr. F. MAULE said, that since 1835 half of the list had been removed by death. 122,717/, for widows' pensions. 88,5001., for the Compassionate Fund, for allowances to ,officer'.' widows. 35,413 L. for Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospitals. Mr. HUME said there was a difficulty in computing the number of persons in these hospitals, while an im mense staff was maintained in each. He thought the time was come when they could be dispensed with, and the men get their out-pensions. In reply to Lord NAAS, Mr. F. MAULE said he certainly had not issued the same order in respect to Chelsea Hospital which he had issued with respect to Kilmainham Hospital. Mr. W. W ILLIAMS said the cost of the officers of the hospital at Chelsea was 9,0001., while the vote for the hospital was only 26,0001. After a few words from Colonel DUNNE, the vote was agreed to. 1,233,0501. for the charge of the out-pensioners of Chelsea Hospital, discharged negro soldiers, and Hano verian soldiers. Mr. WAKLEY asked how many of the Hanoverian pensioners were alive? Mr. F. MAULE could not tell, but there were not many. The vote was agreed to. 37,500/. for retired allowances, compensations, super annuations, &c. Colonel CHATTERTON complained that justice was not done to the cavalry officers in command of regiments as regarded allowance for forage. He thought small tenements for married soldiers inside the walls of bar racks would be more satisfactory than model lodging houses, such as were proposed by the Right Hon. Secre tary-at- War, inasmuch as though they would pay Is. 2d. per week for them they would have the advantage ol coals and candles. Mr. J. A. SMITH suggested that there should be day rooms established in the barracks for the soldiers, as they were already in every other service in Europe. The want of them drove the soldier to the public-house. The ventilation of the soldiers' sleeping rooms should also be attended to. Mr. F. MAULE did not think the pay of cavalry offi cers was lower in proportion than that of other officers. It was desirable to separate married from single soldiers in respect of barrack accommodation, but he could not recognise the claim of marriage except in a certain number of instances, otherwise the whole army would get married. As respects day rooms, there were day rooms already in the barracks, but they were certainly too small, and any extension of the accommodation that could be afforded on that point would be willingly adopted. Colonel DUNNE considered that military men were by no means highly rewarded. Mr. HENLEY begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentle man, whether he would have any objection to furnish a return of the comparative cost of the cavalry and artil lery horses, for though each individual horse for the cavalry was purchased at a cost of 261., while the cost of each artillery horse was 311., still the whole artillery service stood at a much less sum than the cavalry service? Mr. F. MAULE said he should be happy to furnish any information on the subject which the lion. Member desired. The vote was then agreed to, and the House resumed. EXPENSES OF PROSECUTIONS BILL. This Bill was read a third time. On the motion that the Bill do pass, Mr. BANKES suggested a postponement of the stage, for the purpose of including conspiracy, in cases of mis demeanour within the scope of the Bill. Ho had known conspiracies in his own district for the purpose of raising the price of bread to the poor. might GREY au not nrdg e b contrasted be observedthe so necessity easy that to the o deal. Sir conspiracy in cases of Mr. WAKLEY reminded the Hon. Gentleman that this had also been the object of a powerful party, with whom Sir G it . felony was included in the Bill. stateo of appointing of A' p h ;:os n ec U u N to i r E , Scotland, observing that three crimi na l s esca p e d in the former country for one in the latter. England licwithThe Bill then passed. The Stamp Duties Assimilation Bill then passed through Committee. The Exchequer-bills (17,756,6001.) Bill passed through Committee. On the motion of air. W. WILLIAMS, certain re turns were ordered of the public income and expendi ture of the United Kingdom for the years 1849, 1850, and 1851. THE ORGAN NUISANCE. Colonel SIBTHO RP moved for a copy of the instruc tions given by the Commissioners of the Police to the police officers relative to the preventing obstructions and other nuisances caused by the large travelling barrel. organs and advertising vans in and about the metropolis. The Right Honourable Baronet the Secretary of State for the Homo Department on the 21st of March had in formed him that an order had been issued by the Com missioners of Police to stop all music in the streets which caused an obstruction of the public thorough fares. He had since that time received a letter from a gentleman, who informed him that he had been in eorrespondence with the chief office, and had been in formed by the authorities there that no such orders had been issued, inasmuch as the Commis'sloners had no legal au3writy to issue them. The Honourable and Gallant Member then cited some cases is whiall serious accidents had been occarsioned through the isrge travel. ling barrel-organs and travelling vans, and expressed a hope that summary means would be taken to put a stop to the nuisance. Sir G. GREY said he was perfectly willicg to do all that he could, consistently with law, to p: event the nui sance of which the Hon. Member cor nplaited. It was certainly stated in the public papers that orders had been issued by the Commissioners to stop street music, and the Commissioners stated that they had no such power; but that any person, on the ground of il lness in his family or any other reasonable cause, might compel street musicians to desist from playing before his house under a penalty. The order issued on the 21st ult. was not to prohibit all street music, bat to stop it where it was calculated to occasion impediment or obstruction, or danger to life. He had no objection to grant the return moved for. Mr. BROTHERTON defended street musician:. Agreed to. ST. ALBAN'S ELECTION. Mr. AGLIONBY presented a petition from 11. Ed wards, praying (as we understood) to be heard in his justification. He begged to move that it be printed with the votes, for the purpose of being considered to-morrow (this day).—Agreed to. The House then adjourned at One o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, April 14. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on tha Wool sack at Five o'clock. PETITIONS. The Bishop of EXETER presented several petitions against Papal aggression. Lord C AMPBELL presented petitions from several places in Scotland to the same effect. The Earl of EGLINTON presented several petitions to the same effect. The Earl of MOUNTCASHELL presented several petitions from places in Ireland to the same effect. The Earl of GLENGALL presented several petitions from places in Tipperary to the same effect. The Earl of HARROWBY presented petitions from places in Staffordshire and Cheshire to the same effect. COUNTY COURTS. Lord BROUGHAM moved for certain returns re• lating to the county courts respecting the fees received. He considered that it was most unjust to demand from suitors that they should not only have to pay for the ad ministration of justice to themselves, but that they should have to provide for the expenses of the administration of justice to others who should come after them. It was entirely contrary to the principles laid down by Mr. Bentham, and in the justice of which all were agreed. He would take the opportunity of stating that the num ber of casts in which the matter in dispute was above 10/. 'Which had been decided by the county courts was 32,000. The Noble and Learned Lord then asked in what state of forwardness was the Criminal Law Digest ? The LORD CHANCELLOR said that without no tice lie could not answer the question. CHURCH BUILDINGS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The Earl of CARLISLE moved the second reading of this Bill. The Bill was founded upon a report which had met with the approval of the two Archbishops, the Earl of Harrowby, and several other members of the Church Building Commission. The object of the Bill was to amend the law relating to church buildings, and to give to the Church Building Commission the power of regulating pew rents, and of securing free sittings to the poorer members of the Church in all new churches. The report expressed a desire that Parliament should deal with the question of church-rates, but as the touching of that subject might lead to irritation the Bill did not pro pose to deal with it. The Earl of POWIS made some observations, but in so low a tone that even their purport could not be caught in the gallery. After a few words from Lord STANLEY, The Bill was read a second time. RATINGS IN IRELAND. Lord MONTEAGLE rose to present, according to notice, a petition from landowners of Kerry on the sub ject of local assessments for the construction of railways in the south of Ireland. It was essential that their Lordships' attention should be directed to this subject. Their Lordships had on a former occasion entertained a Bill for opening the line from Dublin to Cork, and this was now one of the finest public works in Ireland. It had been recommended in Mr. Drummond's report that this line should be carried on to the west; that had been undertaken by is company, but they had not been enabled to complete the whole, and the petitioners had consulted the localities, and had applied to the grand juries of Kerry and Cork for assistance, and the grand juries had unanimously decided on assisting from their rates in the completion of that work, and the question was whether Parliament was now disposed to sanction that decision, and to authorise the advance ment of money from these rates to complete the railway. In Galway a Government advance had been made for the completion of railways, and the peti tioners asked that the counties might be permitted out of their own resources to do that which the Govern ment had done for Galway. The proposed railway ran through the poorest districts in Ireland, and the comple tion of this railway would furnish work to from 3,000 to 4,000 of that destitute population. He asked for no grant of public money, but merely to use their own rates for this purpose, which would give employment to the desti tute populaJion. Lord REDESDALE admitted the importance of the question. It was a question as to whether they should rate the public at large for the benefit of private indi viduals. By this Bill the original projectors of the railway proposed to get rid of 111. a share on their origiaal proposal when the Bill was passed, and they also proposed to take the power of borrowing upon the security of advances from the county rate, instead of upon their own subscriptions, and thus they proposed to construct a line for their own profit, entirely upon the responsibility of the county-rates. There was also , it must be remembered, a line proposed to be con structed from Killarney to Valentia, a competing line, the subscribers to which did not come to Parliament to seek this power of taxing the counties which was sought for by those whom the Noble Lord supported. He did not think, unless further reasons were shown, that it would be advisable to grant the prayer of this petition. Earl GRANVILLEE deprecated the discussion of general principles upon the presentation of petitions. He agreed very much with what had fallen from both Noble Lords. The Railway Commissioners declined giving opinions on the merit of Railway Bills, merely pointing out unusual provisions in them; there were unusual pro visions in this Bill, not in accordance with general rail way law. He admitted that great distress existed in the county in question; but it was obvious that great care should be taken in the case under notice, and it was the duty of the Government to consider all the bearings of the case, and in what form the subject could be brought before Parliament. The Earl of HARROWBY said there was such great distress in that county that he was sorry any technical rules of the House should stand in the way of its relief. Earl GREY said there were two ways in which rail ways were of advantage —one in direct returns to the proprietors, the other in opening up the land and so in creasing its value. Ireland had suffered so much for the want of facilities for opening up the land that it might be a matter of consideratio n for landed proprietors to adopt the principle of the petition, which he, therefore, thought ought not to be h ast il y re j ec t e d. He agreed that measures founded on this principle—especially in Ireland—should be scrutinised with the greatest care, so as job.—(H ear, and laughter.) b l e d r e was a thought there was something particular in the case, as it was not the company but the LnnortdtoßbEeAcoumme a o NT rate-payers who petitioned th e H ouse t o b e permitted to give a :guarantee upon the land. It would be a hard case in his opinion, therefore, to ref use it s prayer. L or d STANLEY said i t was genera ll y a d m i tte d this was a proposition of an exceptionalh have ve t he p o character, we r of while burden ing the other hand there was a concurrence o f o pi n ion that case made out for a san ctioning, in the instanc e o f an I r i s h ra il wa y, a gua h e partiesthemselves, peti i a o n n d i n tgh should rantee of the county rates. The very body which now petitioned would in the case of an ordinary road have not alone the power of giving the guarantee in question, but of raising and expending the money. It was, there fore to be considered whether in this peculiar case that power should not be extended to railroads. It might never cost the county a pennT. On these considerations, he thought the case was one in which technical consider ations should not be adhered to, but that the work should be considered as a public work. The Earl of POWIS said that to reject this line would be to give the Galway line an unfair preponderance. With due precautions he considered the case had a claim upon the indulgence of Parliament. The Earl of WINCHILSEA. said the same principle had been introduced into a Bill for making a railway from London to Dover, but it was not permitted by Par liament. He thought, therefore, the principle, being a new one, should be carefully considered before it was adopted. Lord REDESDALE explained, Lord MONTEAGLE replied. The subject then dropped. BRITISH GUIANA. Lord STANLEY then rose to lay before their Lord ships the petition of which he had given notice on a for mer evening, signed by a very large number of the in habitants of British Guiana, praying for a local legisla ture for that colony under representative government. The petition, the Noble Lord observed, was in an unusual form, that was to say, the several sheets of which it was composed were not tacked together, as was the custom, but bound; but he hoped that would not interfere to prevent its reception by the House. To that petition there were no fewer than 5,000 signatures; among which he saw not only names f a miliar, no doubt, to the No ble E arl opposite, as those of persons holding promin ent p osition s in that colony , but also names pertaining to all classes and denomina tions of c colonists—clergy, loni l s a t i : d — e d proprietors, c 1 e rg y planters, and l a b ourers . , merchants, traders, barristers, shopkeepers, was sorry,education inthe however,coio colony and among th e co l on i sts , t h at o see, as reg ar d e d t h e progress there were a large numbe r of signatures ma de by marks to this petition, and that t he deficienc y a pplied not alone o Hef to the labourers, but likewise to small freeholders, and, stranger still, to persons e ngaged in trade, who might naturally be supposed to have a knowledge of writing sufficient to carry on their respective business. But he was in a position, however, to state that the trades and designations of the whole of these 5,000 petitioners were given in the petition; and, moreover, in every case where the signature was by a mark, the attestation of a respect able witness as to its genuine character was given in the same column. He believed that a great number of the lower class of the petitioners had signed this pe tition because it had been represented by cer tain parties that the views it contained were not those of the colonial community at ,large, but of a small set of persons who, under cover of the Act of the Noble Earl opposite, were desirous to establish On OliA yedsum t tit h ht Before.tesiehes.otact.he colony proceeded, under however, state i n thes! i - t ution s. I l subs4u.ee of tkus petition, auu csli the attention of their lior:ships to its prayer, he should, with their Lordships' pe.sinissiou, de sci ihe that which, no doubt, was a subject familiar to the Noble Earl, and which was at one time familiar also to himself (Lord Stanley), but which ho believed not to be so familiar to their Lordships— namely, the nature and condition of the existing consti tution of British Guiant. That constitution, he need not s we o e t , f o o r n m t e h d e on eo e t t h r e a r m y de i n l o p f t i h n e t o ß t r i f t a i e s t h , c i r g pr .w n a o r a th f : ;a s e t r ece t h t m h i yei Ye in t d u wa t t l h bu i al i oy h , was a ul oe m un ac t e t rbe y a i dn s tebo t dy h t a cht t the v e ou rn h p t i h o. c ap h bu t a obtained bt t heh u erens colony, 00 e lf r o the nthy cessione: Dutch government of the colony, and which was gua of . that colony. There were two bodi e s, th e Court of Court of Policy ware chosen by an Electoral College, l divided into five districts, under a franchise that had been formerly a high one, but had been recently lowered. The Electoral College consisted of seven per sons; and when a vacancy occurred in the Court of Po licy, they (the College) selected two persons, whom they recommended to the Court of Policy for the purpose of choosing one of them to fill the vacancy in that court. The Court of Policy, thus constituted, consisted of ten members, of whom the governor and four official mem bers formed one-half, the casting vote resting with the governor, who could thus practically decide every ques tion brought before the court. Practically speaking, the Court of Policy was the sole legislative body of the colony. No legislation could be carried on in the colony except in that court. It had the whole control of the legislation of the colony, and no legislation could be ori ginated by any other body; for although there was com bined with that court another body for the purposes of financial legislation and taxation, that other body could not of itself originate any legislative measure. Those financial representatives were six in number, and, con joined with the Court of Policy, formed what was called the Combined Court. The governor had the power of arresting all legislation by ajourning the court sine die. After that short sketch of the Legislature of Guiana, their Lordships would be of opinion that it was not a constitution in which the representative system largely prevailed; and if it was their opinion that the colony was fit for representative institutions, the remedy lay not in a modification of the present system, but in tho alteration of the system altogether in accordance with the prayer of the petitioners. tie was not aware what was the nature of the alteration introduced in the system of the Noble Earl in the year 1840; but he believed he was correct in say ing that whilst the constitution of the Court of Policy and of the Combined Court remained unchanged, the alteration consisted in an extension of the franchise, and the substitution of open voting for the ballot. But looking at the state of ignorance in which the greater portion of the population were plunged, he was not aware that the mode adopted of extending the franchise, and lowering the qualification, was the best mode of in troducing a resemblance to British institutions. How ever, great discontent existed in the colony, and several numerous and respectable meetings were held for the purpose of obtaining representative institutions, and from those meetings petitions were presented to the Court of Policy, demanding a free representative system. On the 3d of April a motion was made in the Court of Policy, recommending that the present Legislature should cease to exist, and should be replaced by a coun cilgmotrihet aetert and emw.w h e ae o est u si t s n e gl o n f d ia s s e po am, s b s l e y ss i s o u n c e h . a s o t h n a t t h i n e B 6 a t r h b a o d f o is e i s a a y nd a formedwas n nof held oot r nominated the et noticeGeorgetown,p n hrapve s having gy obft he organisingee been t ct which ko wenn .ob a fa u c t tph o m eaa nni i f —.n er vol e oz ff n., e s c oaci ti the changes desired in the constitution, but council, former petit u r io n c n e ei s l o , , f the demands of the people went further elective council and an elective assembly. A petition to that effect was presented to the Court of Policy, and that same court, which refused to notice the petition of the 3d of April, came to a resolution on the 13th of June that it was the opinion of the court that the legislative insti tutions of British Guiana were unsuited to the existing state of society, that it was desirable they should be abolished, and a house of assembly and legislative coun cil elected instead. If anything were wanting to show what were the feelings of the colony on the matter, the self•condemnation of that body thus given supplied it. However, on the 18th of September the Government submitted to the court a scheme, not for the purpose of introducing direct representation into either branch of the Legislature, but to increase from six to ten the num ber of additional representatives—to add one person to the elected members of the Court of Policy in the person of the Mayor of Georgetown. The governor having in pursuance of his right adjourned the court, another meeting was held in the interval, which was very nu merously attended, and from which a declaration and petition emanated, to the effect that they were not sa tisfied with the modifications proposed by the governor, and praying the establishment of representative institu tions upon the model of those of the other British colo nies. On the 30th of September a resolution, embracing that principle, was proposed to the Court of Policy, and that same court, which had in the first place refused to notice the petition on the subject and in the next had affirmed and passed a resolution to the effect of the prayer of the petition, in the third place did not nega tive the resolution, but at a subsequent meeting, on the Bth of October, got rid of it by substituting an amend - ment, to the effect that the cour t, acquiescing in the propriety of not altering the constitution of the co lony for the present without the full consent of all classes of the inhabitants, would abstain from legislation on the subject until the memorialists had explained the details of their plan of legislative representation, and declared what would, according to it, constitute full, free, and di rect popular representation. There was a Court of Po licy which condemned its own constitution, there was a general assent on the part of the colony to that con demnation, and a general declaration that they wished to substitute an elective chamber and house of repre sentatives. Nothing could be more clear and distinct than that proposition. He did not say whether the state was such as to furnish materials for those two Chambers, or whether one of them should be elective, or nominated by the Crown. But if anything were re quired to test the feeling of the population of the colony at large it was shown at an election at Georgetown of the member to fill a vacancy in the College of Electors. One of the candidates was chairman of the meetings which had been held in favour of the establishment of representative institutions ; the other belonged to the party who took the opposite view ; and out of the 143 electors of Georgetown 124 voted in favour of the . champion of representative institutions, and 24 in favour of the advocate of the constitution as modified by the Noble Lord opposite. Having laid before their Lordships the facts of the case, he bad only to say that the petitioners earnestly pressed on their Lord ships' House the spirit of discontent which the present arbitrary system generated in the colony; they also complained that, considering the present state of the colony, the high price of the necessaries of life enhanced the cost of living in a way which was severely felt by all who were not in the receipt of Government pay, while the pressure of taxation was not diminished; and it was felt as an especial grievance by them that whilst their own produce was subject • to most onerous competition with others, and gave inadequate remuneration for their labour, they were obliged, for the purpose of maintaining the high rate of salaries of the official servants of the Crown, to pay a heavy amount of taxation. He said nothing with respect to the specific proposition of the petitioners. He had riot the specific knowledge of the colony which would enable him to say whether it was proper or not to establish representative institu tions such as they prayed for; but if the colony was in a state of advancing enlightenment—if there were a considerable number of intelligent and educated men amongst the inhabitants who desired a representative system—they were bound to attend to their wishes, not hastily, injudiciously, or incautiously, but to ap proximate as soon as they could their constitution to a true representative system, not by any tinkering of a kind contrary to the spirit of the British institutions, but by introducing the principle of direct representation, re gard being had to laying the foundation of the popular branch of the Legislature under such safeguards as might be deemed necessary. Her Majesty's Government were bound, in deference to the united freedom of the colo nists, to grant, under such modifications and restrictions as they might think fit to impose, the principle of a direct representative Legislature, so as to enable them to exercise such control over their financial affairs and legis lation generally as was conceded to every colony as soon as its condition was fit to take the management of its own affairs. Without further observation, then, he com mended the petition to the attention of the Noble Earl opposite, in order that he might see fit to substitute for the old Dutch system which prevailed in the colony something more like British institutions. Earl GREY entirely conceded that the British colonies should be allowed to enter upon the enjoyment of institu tions founded upon the model of those of this country, or as soon as they were fit for them. But he could not admit that the present petition expressed the general opinion of all the colonists. On looking over the signa tures the Noble Lord would notice an absence of a large proportion of the signatures of persons of weight in the colony. Ho had before him some papers which were laid before the other House in answer to an address, amongst which was a dispatch from the gove rnor, where in, speaking of a memorial addres sed to the C o urt of that that memorial failed to convince . him Policy, which contained nearly the same si nance and concurrence of the inhabitants of the colony generally in its prayer, for of the signaturestlo,lnOsOnwere t e e (Earl the petition just presented by the Noble . Loathe ahteasrteasteads marks of the London missionary . congregha gnconso ci! from a l a wGutana that the basis; but so far were . the par th i ough repeatedly a kd agreeing upon that point, that ed h 8 e amone. t emselves to do so, they had never . yet would h which gave the power to a Grey) had always held that if there s ould be widee what was the franchise they . sen tative government at all, itnottue.edgshtiihttoharyteeh,si;ts.uapncodans fromwas it e extreme of de other the re-es population, wass tablishment of present all lii ti c c wnted th coalition of two sepa ratesmall oligarchy, who represented the absent proprietors. r ee y s feponratmr wellt petitione k s n : otoawnt state emanated. oo t f o f t hw ings, Up to 1849 some six or seven persons possessed almost all the political power of the . colony. At the present time, looking at the population of British Guiana, he doubted the expediency of' throwing . power into the lsti o n f g European descent, the of 130,000 souls, of nofotth;oproep thanu.la greater portion being persons who were formerly slaves,and Africans recently landed from captured slavers, of coolies from the East Indies, or Portuguese from Madeira; and so ignorant were . . they that they were obliged to affix their marks to their signatures. Besides, owing to the high rate of . wages and the low value of land, persons of little hands which e u y c at i.on adopted very a rapidly poeun e th dacquired property; therefore, if iary qualification it would throw power into the hands of a very ignorant body of people, and he did not think it expedient to make the franchise such as would produce that result. On the other hand, nothing could be more injurious to the real welfare of the colony than to create an oligarchy such as formerly ex isted. It appeared to him, then, that the really judi cious course as gradually to improve existing institu tions, so as to ft the people for a future increase of po pular power. That had been done to a certain extent by the alteration of 1849, and so far as related to the control of financial matters, which was the foundation of all legislative power, the colony did possess a great share of self-government. With respect to the opinion of the intelligent part of the colonists, he held in his hand a resolution which had been transmitted to him by the chairman of the meeting of proprietors, in which they declared that, under existing institutions, the tax payers had entire control over the imposition and expenditure of the taxes, and they pointed out certain alterations in existing institutions as greatly preferable to any sweeping alterations in the present constitution. To the alterations which these gentlemen thus proposed he saw no objections what ever. On the contrary, he believed them to be sound in principle, and calculated to improve the existing institu tions of the colony, and gradually prepare it for still greater freedom. Regarding them in that light, he felt it his duty to send their resolution to the Governor, at the same time strongly to recommend a measure to be founded upon it and passed by the Court of Policy. The signatures to that resolution embraced those of every considerable merchant and planter connected with Guiana, resident in England, Scotland, and Ireland; and he thought that intelligent men like them ought to be trusted in a matter of that sort. As to what the Noble Lord had said respecting the weight of taxation, he begged to say that it had been very much reduced of late. The Noble Lord seemed to think that since the Act of 1846 passed, a still larger reduction ought to have been made; but if he would look to the actual state of the colony, be would find that it was now in a not less promising condition than at the period of the passing of that Act. Comparing the actual price which Guiana sugar produced at this time with what it then realised, he would not find the planter in a worse condition; rather he would find that brighter prospects were dawning upon him, as had been stated by the Governor in one of his dispatches. The fall in the rate of wages was fully commensurate with the fall in the price of the produce of the colony, for the effect of protection, while it existed, had been to raise the price of labour. There was no question, judging from the returns which had been received, that wages had fallen; that was to say, that the rate of wages had fallen to such an extent that the population did more work now for the same money than they had done before. With a state of society like that which existed in Guiana, this was an unmixed good, not only to the planters but the people themselves, because in that state of society it was most desirable that some adequate motive should be found for them to labour, and not to encourage those habits of idleness which were naturally stimulated by the abolition of slavery. The Noble Lord said that the measure of 1846 had operated so to injure the co lony as to make a great reduction of taxation neces sary. But if he looked at the facts before their Lord ships he found no proof of this. What was the actual state of affairs? At this moment the Governor had been able to propose in the colony a reduction of taxation to the extent of no less than between 150,000 and 250,000 dollars. And how had he been able to do this? Mainly by the increased productiveness of the existing taxes. And surely that increased productiveness of re venue was no proof of general distress in the co lony. On the contrary, it seemed to him to be a sign of the existence of a state of things which was the very reverse. He was also happy to inform the Noble Lord that the larger part of the reduction of taxa tion proposed by tiee.Governor of Guiana was a reduc tion of the duties on imported provision. He quite con curred with the Noble Lord with regard to Guiana, and he wished the Noble Lord concurred with him in the same principle as regarded England—that no more sui cidal policy could be adopted in Guiana than that of laying heavy taxes on the importation of the necessaries of life. But undoubtedly the existence of self-govern ment would not prevent this, because ho was afraid that in this respect the policy of the other West India colo nies which did possess an Assembly and Council had not been wiser than that of Guiana, though he had great hopes that in their present sitting the Combined Court would effect large reductions of the duties in the impor tation of provisions, and that in future years that mea sure would be followed by the entire removal of those duties. This, he thought, was most desirable; for he firmly believed that the effect in the West Indies of these duties on imported provisions was most injurious both to the planter and the labourer. In all countries it was in jurious to the labourer that labour should, by artificial restrictions, be diverted from its natural requirements; and injurious to the planter, because the great evil of Guiana being at this moment a deficiency of labour, by laying a tax upon imported provisions they virtually gave an encouragement to the negroes rather to occupy them selves in their own provision grounds, raising provi sions, than in earning wages from the planter and the sugar mill. The proposition of the Governor was, therefore, in his judgment, wise and judicious. He would repeat, that it was most desirable, if the popula tion were prepared for it, that we should be enabled more completely to establish representative institutions in Guiana; but, as matters now stood, he concurred with the gentleman whose opinions he had quoted, and who were, he believed, owners of a largo proportion of pro perty in that colony, that it was far wiser to endeavour to improve its existing institutions than at once to sweep those institutions away, and substitute for them a scheme which was altogether new and untried. Lord STANLEY would have been inclined to attach much more importance to the statements of the gentle. men cited by Earl Grey if they had not asserted that the colonies were not, in their view, fitted for repre sentative institutions; whilst the Noble Earl said they heel already a highly intelligent and numerous con stituency in Guiana—a constituency of about 1,000 persons—a constituency which would be much larger than it was if persons would come forward and claim the privilege; and that that constituency had now the power of dealing with all financial questions. The Noble Earl said that there was an extended constituency which might be made more extensive still; and that this constituency did in fact at present exercise control over the legislation of the colony. But, if that were so, the authority of the practical men to whom the Noble Lord referred was at once destroyed; for the Noble Earl did not state that the constituency were unfit, but that they did exercise control. Then why not let them exercise that control by direct representation rather than by a system of which the colonists complained as being so re pugnant to them?—(Hear.) The Noble Lerd concluded by laying the petition upon their Lordships" table. HALIFAX AND QUEBEC RAILWAY. Lord STANLEY said he had another petition to present, from an association of persons in this country who were deeply interested in emigration to North America. It had reference to papers which were re cently laid upoa the table of the House, from which he (Lord Stanley) was glad to see that her Majesty's Go vernment were prepared to give some assistance, and the guarantee of this country, to the legislatures of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Canada, for the purpose of establishing a railway between Halifax and Quebec. The petitioners were connected with a number of skilled and unskilled workmen, who could not find employment in this country, and were desirous of emigrating to Canada, and they prayed that, in carrying into effect the railway from Halifax to Quebec, her Majesty's Government would not lose sight of the connexion which might be wisely and advantageously established between a well-re gulated system of emigration and colonization and the construction of this great national work. He mentioned this now, because he did not see any definite mention made in the papers as to how far the Noble Earl was disposed, with regard to New Brunswick particularly, to take the larger portion of the land adjoining the pro posed line of railway as a collateral security for the gua rantee of the Government. With regard to Nova Scotia. and Canada, he believed such an arrangement was un necessary; but, with regard to New Brunswick, ho was afraid that, looking at its present financial position, and looking also at its want of resources, as well as at the peculiar adaptability of its lands to purposes of coloni zation, that colony would not be able to give the Go vernment a sufficient security for the payment of t he sums to be advanced on ,loan unless the Government acceptedwaste as a portion of the security a surrender of the lands, which had already been offered by the colony. He saw no reference to that in the papers laid upon the table by the Noble Earl. Earl GREY, in answer to Lord Stanley's concluding observations with regard to the petition from Guiana, said that there was a material difference between throw ing practically the whole power into the hands of the population of that colony by such an assembly as was asked for, and giving a well-regulated power over the imposition of taxes, which were already possessed by the constituencies, who elected the financial representa tives. With regard to the second matter to which the Noble Lord had adverted that of the Quebec and Halifax Rail way, he had only to point out to the Noble Lord this circumstance, that the manner in which it was proposed that her Majesty's Government should guarantee the loan would make the whole revenue, both territorial and general, liable, in the first instance, for the payment of the interest on the loan. If the proposal had been that this country should make the loan, or should guarantee the interest to the company making the loan, it was obvious that it would then be material, in the first in stance perhaps, that there should be a certain right to the land on both sides of the line, to afford the means of meeting the costs. But if the responsibility of this country was confined to guaranteeing the payment of a loan raised in the money market by the colony on the security of all its resources, territorial and general, that would be no longer applicable. Lord STANLEY theught the matter well worthy the consideration of the Noble Earl and her Majesty's Go vernment. True, the whole of the revenue and the lands of the colony would be the security for the guarantee of this country; but he doubted very much whether the re venue of the province would, after providing for car rying on the administration of the province, be a suffi cient. security for the sums required to construct the rag e way through New Brunswick. But even if it were, thought that in a national point of view, and particu larly with reference to emigration from this co la u c t i r n y , very great advantages would be obtained by were, he under the control of the Commissioners, who a long the a lineu t h byo understood, to act in conjuction with thael rities, the promotion of colonisation g emigrants going out under the superintendence and con trol of the Government. In that manner the surrender of the control of these lands along the railways might,not only pecuniarily, but politioally, be a m ost important matter for this country, with a view t o transferring thither a large portion of industrious emigrants, who would not easily find their way there if the lands left not under the con trol of the Commissio ners, but to be disposed of by speculators for what they would fetch in the market. After a tow words from Earl GREY, in support of the plan determined upon by the Government, Lord STANLEY sin he thou g ht t h e co l ony s h ou ld be in the position of being Able to offer a real security THE SUN, LONDON,- TUESDAY EVENIIST:G, APRIL 15 , 1851. for the guarantee of this country, but he was afraid that without the surrender of the lands the colony would not have it in its pow , r to give such security, and he should be sorry indeed if such an opposition were raised as that Parl.ament would be dissuaded by the insufficiency of the security to refuse its guarantee. Lord BERNERS presented a petition from East Brent complaining of the pressure of local burdens upon the agricultural interest, and praying the transfer of the charge for the maintenance of the poor to the Consoli dated Fund. The Noble Lord added that the country was at this moment looking with considerable anxiety to see what measures might be promoted by their Lord ships' House for the reduction of local burdens; and that it did hope, as the principle of paying the expense of cri minal prosecutions out of the Consolidated Fund had been adopted, that the principle would be extended to the poor-rates. The Earl of POWIS presented a petition from the Bath Church of England Lay Association against the continuance of the grant to Maynooth. At a Quartcr to Eight o'clock their Lordships ad journed for the Easter holidays until Thursday, the Ist of May. AMERICAN NEWS. ARRIVAL OF THE ARCTIC. LIVERPOOL, MONDAY, APRIL 14. We have received by the arrival in this harbour of the United States mail-steamer Arctic, Ince, com mander, our usual dispatches from New York to the 2d inst. inclusive. The Arctic cleared from New York at noon on the 2d, but encountering heavy head-winds, her run was prolonged to twelve days two hours. She arrived in the river at seven P.M., bringing 113 passengers, the usual mails, and specie valued at about 40,373/. sterling, comprising 200,000 dolls. in American coin. Don Manuel Escando and the Hon. Goodrich " Peter Parley," the former on a financial mission from Mexico to London, have arrived in the Arctic. Our accounts from Washington and New York by the Arctic are not of great moment. Mr. Secretary Webster has been entertained with public honours by the legislators of Pennsylvania, and on the occasion delivered a great constitutional and Union speech. Generals Scott and Cass had been nominated for the Presidency. President Fillmore had acknowledged Mr. G. Aikin as her Majesty's Consul at San Francisco. Jenny Lind had arrived at Nashville, and was ex pected at New York en route to London in May. Fifteen lives had been lost by a collision of steam boats on the Ohio. Letters in the New York journals announce that the United States Cabinet had arranged a new postal plan with Canada. Resolutions had been passed by the Ohio Legisla ture for a modification of the Fugitive Slave Law- Great satisfaction is expressed in the free-trade organs that the Secretary of the Treasury had re solved not to include freight in the valuation of foreign imports. Large numbers of passengers to the Crystal Palace were about to leave New York ; few berths were vacant in the steam-ship Canada, from Boston, on the 9tb, and the Baltic, from New York, on the 16th inst. It is stated that several leaders of the Irish Directory in New York were among the in tended voyagers. Our mercantile accounts state that the southern markets were at length superabundantly supplied with specie. 500,000 dolls. were expected from New Orleans. From California we have by this steamer no later accounts ' but further advices and gold were shortly expected. Our accounts from Canada do not confirm as yet the reported close of the Welland Canal against United States vessels. Vessels were, on the contrary, passing through. From the West India Islands, viii Bermuda, by the royal mail screw-steamer Merlin, at New York, we have very late accounts. St. Thomas advices of the 22d ult. announce the arrival of the steam-ship Trent from Southampton. Oar accounts are otherwise unimportant. From Bermuda we learn that Vice-Admiral the Earl of Dundonald arrived at St. George's on the 23d ult., in her Majesty's ship Wellesley. Some re lief of the drought had been experienced from a fall of rain in the island. From Carthagena we learn that on the 25th of February a second shock of earthquake was expe rienced at Santa Martha. Several houses were much injured. Hayti accounts of the sth ult. state that tran quillity prevailed. From Jamaica we have journals to the 15th ult., inclusive. On the 14th the Conway arrived from St. Thomas with the outward mails of the Thames, which arrived out in 21 days from Southampton, after a very rough passage. The Great Western was daily expected from Vera Cruz. Our accounts are unim portant in relation to political affairs. Letters from Havannah of the 22d ult. report no special feature of intelligence. Accounts from Mexico, received viii Havannah, extending to the 4th ult. from the capital, and to the Bth from Vera Crnz, are unimportant. Our au thority for the following is the Faire Industrial de l'Habana :—" Several papers of the Republic com plain of the inertness of the Government, and attri bute it to some pernicious anti-progressive influences. The House of Deputies had adopted a resolution, by which the Government is authorised to contract for the construction of a lighthouse in the bay of Los Alacranes, provided the cost will not rise above 80,000 dolls. The expenses of this lighthouse and others in project will be met by an increase of a real per ton on the vessels coming from a foreign port. The situation of the landed property becomes every day more deplorable." El Eco de Vera Cruz makes the most painful re flections upon some propositions lately presented to Congress by the Secretary of the Treasury. It is said that the Senate has granted to General Herrera a yearly income of 4,000 dolls. for his ser vices as a military man. It was rumoured in Mazatlan that a pronuncia miento had been made. and that some officers of the permanent army had been comprised in it. They had been arrested by the commander at that point. From Pernambuco there are accounts to the 20th of February, but no details. Buenos Ayres accounts of the 21st of January an nounce the arrival of the Brazil mail auxiliary screw steam-ship Esk at that port on the 12th of January, after touching at Monte Video on the 11th. the the receipts of the Federation were . flouri upwards of From the British Packet of the 11th we learn that had transpired balance on hand towards 1851 being 36,000,000, and that nothing same journal record the postponed. Mercantile Brazil. The Legislatunreewmeeting had been . th large liabilities expected • all • among faiAluireercoafnatilnematicyceoufinrtms th e inwi Prices of kinds of pro duceforeign import houses. wer a e nd the immense concourse to continue so. freights were not expected to were h i i n gb th er e , p s a o e n r s d t . , From the deficient supply improve. p sh ru ip v e e i . ng Demerara accounts to the 12th ult. state that the suits against the publisher of the Colonist had ended in an acquittal. COMMERCIAL INTELLIGENCE. NEW YORK, APRIL 2.—Money-market—There is a decided improvement in the money-market. Our banks h aving passed the period for their first quarterly re ports, are discou n ti ng more freely and our capitalists feel much more confidence now that the draw for specie is checked. For several days past money has been more freely offered. Paper has gone with more freedom, in some instances we notice prime short paper is lower. Loans on demand and specified are more easily nego tiated. The Franklin steam-ship for Havre will take out about 300,000 dolls. in specie. Quite an excitement was created in Wall-street to-day by the sudden influx of large amounts tof sterling exchange, and the conse quent depression in rates. Up to to-day the sales had been mane at 1101 to 1101, but the market gave way upon its being made public that 70,0004 ba offered sold at 110. At the close of business sterling was at 110 with but few buyers, although the leading houses quoted 110 to 1104. on the continent of Europe The demand for exchange has been moderate. Foreign Exchange—London. 110 k to 110; Paris, 5 81 to 5 7i; Amsterdam, 4li to 4113; Hamburgh, 36i to 37 ; Bremen, 791; United States Stocks continue steady and in demand. Cotton—On the 26th tilt. 1,200 bales were forced at from e.l to reduction. On irregular rates, varyi n g the 27th the sales amounted to 1,500 bales, of which 500 prior to the receipt of the Canada's advices per tele graph without change, atd 1,000 subsequently at fully ate. to ic. advance; on the 28th, 2,000 bales; on the 29th, 2,500 bales. Yesterday a dull feeling, and a disposition generally to await the Baltic's advices, in answer to the panic advices transmitted by her on the sth instant, pre vailed, and the sales effected (reported at 2,000 bales) were made at some concessions. To-day no sales have been effected, holders preferring to await late advices rather than submit to a reduction. The receipts at all the shippin g ports are 1,844,478 bales, against 1,692,832 to same date last year, an increase this season of 151,646 bales, The total foreign export this year is 251,501 bales more than last—say, 145,753 bales increase to Great Britain, 49,052 increase to Franco, 27,838 in crease to the North of Europe, and 28,858 increase to other foreign ports. The shipments from southern to northern ports are 124,454 bales less this season than last, and there is an increase in stocks of 34,245 bales. Ashes—Pots have remained steady, at 21 dolls. to 21 dolls. 50c., at which further sales have been made, both afloat and from store. Iron—English bars are, if anything, rather firmer; 50 tons sold at 37 dolls. 50e., six months, and 250 ditt o on terms not made public. Tobacco—We have no new feature to note in the market for Kentucky, which, though not active, is gene rally firm. No new crop has yet been received. The stock consists of medium and better grades. Inferior is comparatively scarce, and of Maryland there is but little here. The stock of manufactured has inorealed $0 .-