The Sun. — London, England, 1851-05-13 00:00:00

CRICKET. ELEVEN OF ENGLAND v. TWENTY-TWO OF RACING FIXTU RE FR lB5l York Spring 15 North Herts Bath Epsom Harpenden JUNE. Ascot pton Beverley, Hull, &c 4 Stockbridge li 11 Barnstaple &N. Devon 19 nna Manchester ll Lenham . Coggeshall Southwell (N otts) Rnighto n .. . 13 Macclesfl Ad Loo o° ( and 11011*** * ************ 16 I Salisbury Bibury .................... 18 1 Ipswich Newmark JULY. tar_e -et 1 ucility ........ 1 Lancaster 2 Worcester Liverpool **************** 9 ....... ...• 4 Ripon ... Au Brighton .... . ..... 4 Leominster ............. Wolverhampton . 1.1 Huntingdon l2 Reading Stamford—. Ilsley Nottingham Chelmsford 22 Odiham 25 9 GGoodwood2 118 T. Canterbury l4 York S)uthport .... D,rby Egham Lynn mama. ... Leicester Doncaster BSandbach ............... 16 edford Eglinton Park ... 23 or 24 Manchesti. A titunin 25 Newmarket F.O ....... 30 '0.13 ER* Scarborough 1 Eccles ............ 1 Warwick Lincoln Radcliffe Lichfield ............... 8 Yarmouth ............... Weymouth ............ 10 OCTI Monmouth I Richmond 1 Caledonian Chesterfield 1 Chester Worcester Yorkshire Union Runt 8 Wrexham ............... 9 Ne4muket 13 Newmarket Houghton.. 27 MOVE 31 BEIt ~ First week. FRP. The --- ' N-C H RAIL WAY TRAFFIC. re ceipts of followingthe are the last returns of the gross NoR T , . Principal French Railways : xi0t....:.F , 276,773t. 1 gc , 418 r ° ,ll April 30 to May 6: Passengers, vr4m,200,2301.; tuts!, 477 003 f. ROUEN. -- 27 to May 78,273 r.; good s; 6 6 & 9 117i1 3 : Passengers, Esvaz.—F mn , 'G l p; total, 165 2341. 26,972 f.; goods. 33,0 W. _ pr total 60,008 f. 3W. ,27 728t0 toM:I): : ORLEANs. — Froni Passengers, 94,166 e. ; goods, 117 , 1 29 ' i ! . J3oRDEAUL—From. total, 211.995 f. 4 : Passengers, 43.689::; good,i, 40,9541. t total, to Mai 4: Passengers. VIVEZON.—From April 2 8 t0 ° 4 •648f. 4; Passengers. 41,732 f.; goods, 43.064 f.; total, 4 4- 7 17 BOULOG NE.-- Fro:0 April 28 t o 1 4 9 ,, ef • 20,199 f.; good:4, 17,76.51.; total, 37 .8 a t .. 4 , Passengers NANTES..--FrOal April 26 to May 2 : 1 , 23,5161.; goods, 15,121 i.; total, 38,637 f. ' 3 aSeagerti, i'ITGIASBURG —FrOVO , April 30 to May 6 : p 102,874 f.; goods, 59,0321.; total, 161 906 f, a u*ngers, BALE.--From April 21 to April 27 : Pa r , ..eeg ets 29 257 t.; goods, 16,301:.; IMO, 45,558 f. MONTEREA.U.—From April 23 to April 29: Passengers. 11,5251.; goods, . 13,253 f • - tsl, 24,778 f. • , t ~ LYONS. —From Ap r il 20 to April 26 : Passengers, 120,346 f.; gontis, 30,555 f.; total, 151,901 f. eitlternEg.-=-Frosn, April 21 to April 27: Passengers, 3Z321E; goods, 13,7091. ; total, 46,0301. ST. IVES.--THE FISHERY.—During the past week the boats on the mackerel fishery have been very successful, taking from 300 to 5,000 per boat, wiich have been sold at an average of 7s. pe r h u nd re d o f s i x score. One boat landed on Wednesday 3,000, her own catch, which, with some few others that came to land, sold at Bs. or 9i. per hundred. — Royal Cornwall Gazette. ST. IVES. This grand match was on Saturday last, its third day, brought to a conclusion, St. Ives winning by thirty runs. The following is the score: — ST. IVES. Cornwell, b Wisden 3 a Box, b Clarke Smythe, run out 1 b Clarke 2 _ ,••• W. Prest, c Felix, b Wisden.. 5 b Hillyer ... Canon, b Wisden.... 0 b Wisden Lord Sandwich, b Wisden ... 0 b Wisden ..._.... 3 Bird, c and b Wisden ..... .. 0 not oat Prest, b W isden. .... .„ 0 b Day....„ „.. 0 Norris, b Wisden .. ..... ..... 3 c Martingell, b Clarke 3 Stevens, c Hillyer, b Wisden. 5 b Wisden Spencer, b Wisden . 2 b Hillyer Payne, b Wisden ..... 0 run out Boning, c Caffyn, b Clarke .. 1 b Hillyer • ........ Nash, b Wisden Arnold, b Clarke Richardson, b Wisden ... Ekins, c Hillyer, b Clarke ... 4 s Box, b Day ... Tunwell, b Clarke... ...... 11 b Day .. .. 2 W. W aldock, c Clarke, b Wi s d en 0 c Felix, b Wisderi ... )3 Jorner, b Clarke .. 0 c P arr , b Day .....,.. 3 Buttriss, 1 bw, b Wisden... 1 c Hillyer, b Day 1 13eck, c Day, b Clarke 0 b-Day .. 0 H. Waidock, not out ... 0 b Hillyer ... 0 . • Leg bye . - THE ELEVEN. Caffyn, b Arnold ....... ....... b Arnold Thomas, b Arnold ..........• 0 b Buttriss Parr, c Stevens, b Arnold ... 1 c Norris, b Buttriss.— 19 Box. b A rno ld Guy, b Buttriss ...... 1 b Arnold 3 Martingell, b Arnold-- ....... 2 b Buttriss Wisden, b Buttriss .......... 8 b Arnold _9 N. Felix, Es q., b Arnold ..... 5 b Buttriss ..•••••• 0 7 0 Day, b Arnold ....... 0 b Buttriss Hillyer, b Buttriss ...... . 4 not out Clarke, not out 6 b Buttriss 5 Byes 6 Bl,lb 3 , w 1 ....•• MEETING OF TMARYLEBONELIE C CLUE —THE r L E A E Y E O R F S AND EI E BOWLERS. The committee of the M.C.C.O held a Pavilion at Lord's last wee at h the meetingfo llowingin the rm. lutions were agreed to : "That the M.C.C. Players shall infuture receive 10s., in addition to thn usual pay, for each match at Lord's, when not confined to a single day, making 3/. 10s. each for the winners, and 2/. 10s. each for the losers. rr That Mr. Da, , ,k communicate to the bowlers of the theaterM.C.C. is the w i t i sh of the committee that any M.C.C. plywho sha stand umpire in any match, shall pa y particular attention to the bowling, in refer ence to Rule No. 10 of • The L aws of Cricket ;' and if an y bowler shall in his opinion- on such occasion trans gress that law, by throwing or jerking the ball, or if the hand of the bowler shall be chore the shoulder in delivering, that. is, when the bail leaves the hand; he shall call no ball. As it is impossible to define a throw or Jerk, he unlit form his own opinion on those subjects, but bear particularly in mind in all these cases that if he shall have the slightest doubt as to the fair ness of a bowler, it is his duty to cull no ball. If in any match he shall call any bowler unfair, and such bowler shall be allowed to bowl by the other umpire, he shall explain his reasons to such other umpire, and endraiour if possible to agree with him as to the course to be taken during the remainder of the match. But if the differ rence of opinion shall be so great ths.t no agreement can be come to, he shall act according to bi s own opi nion, and shall, as soon as possible after the match, re port to the committee of the M.C.C. the circumstances of the ease. " Although the committee of the Mary lebone Cricket Club address these observations to their own players in particular, they recommend the consideration of them to umpires throughout the country.'" • • DEATH OF REDGATE, THE CRICKETER. A fortnight since this once celebrated bowler, for years the pride of his own eleven, and the terror of his adversaries, breathed his last at Old Radford, enear Nottingham, after three years of painful suffer ing. The lamentable bodily condition into which Redgate had fallen was the effect of the habits in which he had indulged for several years preceding this last event, and not unfrequent were the pecuniary aids which were tendered to him by his friends and others who had been his admirers in his palmy days, when, from the severity of the then attack, he was un able to follow any vocation whereby he could earn the ordinary means of subsistence. It will be seen from the following outline of his history, which we extract from • Mr. Denison's Sketches of the Players, published in 1846, that at time of his death, Redgate, had he lived until the 27th of July next, would have completed his 41st year. "Samuel Redgate was born at Arnold, about four miles from Nottingham, on the 27th of July, 1810. He stands 5 feet 81 inches in height and weighs when in health - 12 stone. Redgate is a lace maker. He had several - years been celebrated as a bowler of much eminence, ere he came up to Lord's, in the season of 1835, where he made his first appearance in a match—' The Mary. lebone Club v. The St. John's Wood Club.' His first public match, however, was hi 1829, in a match be tween Leicester and Nottingham, in which he scored 39 and 27, and bowled 7 wickets. In one of the matches wherein he was engaged he bowled 13 wickets, a feat which has rarely been equalled. In one of the Keet and England matches, which was played at Town Mailing, ho bowled three of the best wickets in one' over,' and got 20 runs in one innings. This last act is recorded, because Redgate strictly is not a batsman of high standing, al though we have seen him make long hands occasionally. As a bowler, however, he has had pretensions of the first character. His pica etas extremely rapid, his delivery beautiful tend unexceptionable as to fair ness, while its length was excellent, and its rise quick and very effective. Ineiepesition during the last year or two has made some havoc in his physical powers; but in ail other respects, save that of the vice, he bowled in some of the matches last season as well as ever. It is feared teat he has not at all times been the beet lrieed to lemsell, and that the illness he has h:d was the re.alt of various indiscre ions. Sincerely is it talked that he has entirely regained his health; and it may be inferred that such a con sequence from caretulness has come to pass, seeirg that he is at present at Cambridge as a practice bowler to the gentkvien of that Univer>ity, his average as a botvier in 1844 was as fullows:—Ele played ten matches, bowled 31 ai kets, and made an average of three one tenth. In 1845 he played ten matches, bad 14 innings, scored 8 in one innings, 16 in OLIO match, and 37 in all, givieg an average of about 2. In the stme number be bowled 32 wickets, had 18 caught off him, and took in all 50 wickets, or an average of 5 per match. He also bawled 7 wides."—Nottingitem Journal. ~-~ J THE SETN, LONDON, ARRIVAL OF M. BELLOT. M. Bellot, of the French mArine, whose volunteer of services for any Arctic expedition wa4 announced in our journal a few days since, arrived from Paris on Saturday morning. He has hastened across to join the Prince Albert, at Aberdeen. M. Bellot, Knight of the Legion of Honour, is a dis tinguished officer in the French service, and was wounded at Madagascar in 1845, in the combined attack of the French and English at Tamatave. The generous offer of his services on an arduous voyage to the Arctic seas, in a cause so sacred, will be duly appreciated by all classes of her Majesty's subjects, and tend, we trust, to cement that union between the nations of the globe which is so ardently sought to be established by the " world's fair." M. BAlot is, as it ware, the representative of the French navy in the search for Franklin, fur we have reason to believe that deep sympathy is felt by all offi cers of the nary of France, and indeed of all navies in the civilised world, in the fate of that brave and good man and his gallant a:sociates. SHIP NEWS. NOTICE. Leghorn, April 30. Advices from Naples, of the 26th, state that the qua rantines lately established there had all been taken oft GRAVESEND, MAY 11 —Wind S.W., calm, fine. Arrived—Wigerhaw, from the Mauritius ; Sorcnto, from Alexandria ; Eiza Keith, from Callao ; Minerva, from Barbadoes; Env, from Riga; Tar, from Valpa raiso; Ann, from Rouen; Alliance, from Guernsey; Spirit and Eske, from Stettin; Sprightly, from St. Michael's; Anne Doroth , -, from Denmark ; Ann, from Bombay ; Cicero, from Grenada; Ocean Waite, from the Mauri tius; Lid), Hilda, from Berbice; Blanche, Ellen, Pan dora, Giecian, and El:z Abeto, from Jamaica ; Alwina, from Stettin; Germania, from Rostock; Malcelm, from Dominica, ; Violet, f, om Marseilles ; Thomas Hughes, from Port Philip ; Tay, from Alexandria ; Cceiar, from Tarragona; Clar et, from Bordeaux; Pleiades, from Bar badoes; Hellespont, from the Cape of Good dope; Con cordia, Ranger. and Girstf,, from Rotterdam ; queen aid Lion, from Harlingen; Static aadrecht, from Dordt; Thaini-v, tram Hainburgn • Menai, from Calais; City of Rotterdam, from Dunkirk'. ... SaiLd—Sandian, for St. Helena; Bangalore, for New Zi,land; Comet, fir Bordeaux; Caledonia and Elbe, fit Haulburgli ; Oct an aid Attwoud, for Rot tc.rdatu ; Sir E. Banks, for Ostend ; Fleebe, fcr Go ill; Victoria, for New York; General Wiitstiire, for Brazil; City of London, for Dunkirk; William Johtfe, fur llavre; Albion, for Boulogne; Fame, for Calais; Antwerpen, for Antwerp; Baravier and Earl of Auck land, for Rotterdam; Lord John Russell, for Harlingen ; Cattierina, fir Norway ; Oc<au Bre. for Malta; Dal housie, for Calcutta; Jane. fur Adelaide; Amy Robsart, for Newcastle; alert:wit), fur Liverpool; Proporttis, for the Cape of Good Hope; Jyilaud, fur Isi)kjobing; 8. - inetta, for .Flambuigh; Crusader, for St. Thomas; ' North Creina, ior Liverpool; lienrich, for Wolgaat; La Societe, for Caen; People, fur Cherbourg; Mischief, fur Barbadoes. VESSELS' SPOKEN WITH. Statira Morse, bound west, with passengers, March 21. Percival, of Newcastle, March 27, in let. 49 N., long. 20 W. Richard Thornton, from London for Batavia, March 27, in lat. 2 N., long. 21 W. Wanderer, from Cardiff for Rio Janeiro, March 16, long. 22 W. Lady C. Gaest, from London for Bermuda, April 10, in lat. 33 N.. long. 42 W. Nautilus, from Dublin for Quebec, April 23, in lat. 47 N., long. 37 W. Ellen Forestal, from Limerick for New York, March 27, in lat. 50 N., long.. 22 W. Maude, fur Now York, May 1, in lat. 51 N., long. 13 W. ENGLISH SWINDLERS IN PARIS. AN OLD TRICK REVIVA'D. The following story appears in the Gazette des Tri banazia: "Two well.dressed persons, having the appear ance of Englishmen, went yesrerday to the fair which is being held un the Route de Versailles. They placed before them a tray containing a great nunaba of pieces like those --of 20E; and with a very strong English accent offered them for sale at one franc each. The public suspecting that the pieces were only a composition gilded, made few pur chases. Presently a cab drove up, and two other Englishmen, also fashionably dressed, alighted. They weld to within a short distance of the other two, and one said in bad French, ' Why, I declare it is Lord Harrison trying to win his wager with Sir esulecieettod Hathurls.' ' Whitt wager?' said the second English man. ' What! don't you know that he has betted loot, sterling that he would offer I,COO guineas at If. hanaa hour.' t i h o e s s t e l_li s o i g lly Frenchmen, and that he would not Hathurls,' . s ' a l id aul 50 in two hours; whereas Sir Bathurls that they will all be taken in less than part, , said the other,the sefond. of the same opinion as Sir as bet.'Englishman. For my shook hands , I think with Harrison." Let ' l i i w ai l l ireh? . ' lot.' conversation vats overheard red a short'ia andei.:tancTe.heyTthheeinr and, after some whi. by the persona standing by; r at p h e , .. i r d s g o fyo n l s do h f : i is i t oA en etat 1 . e - s wttoh me theii tut x resources g u bt r, sellers, am eee sp o t. rap n ante g tbdre s tia t d:it t otioh h tufe e lli n themselves s t e l tal conversation: eeas manynvt h h e i s ol e e a t h e little lw° aces f g 'a e r n the e r m :ff n , than an hour the whole of The two gentlemen Who jt int d the other two in having also the rppearanet ° and the result was the same. In less the had e l oae , wf 7 iii g h u a b i t n vit e ael a ir s were sol d . c a t t c h cl u t i he tak st i l i e o t ac he e n four drove, individuals its of Great Britain arrived, and inquired On tn in; wit:, they cried 'lt is they!' and at the sa me . time e xpiained that they were detective officers o f e English police, and that they had been sent over to watch certain notorious I:ockpockets of London who have come to exerci-e their industry in France. The stat-ment . of these I theirs spread rapidly amongst the crowd, and the joy of t;le purchasers of the guineas be catae changed into sadness. Oa discovered t!Onot the pretended pi e ces of gold, it was th a t_ _they were not north 15c, cue!). Tile secret polio of Paris, assisted by the English officers, have commenced a search-alter the clever cheats." 'atm H nover-square SOCIETY or LONDON. --Uri meeting of this socitty was held at the a chair. The noorns; the Marquis of Blandford in the formed —On Friday the an report stated that nine new associations had be en in England in connexion with the society during he forme s` year. Th t —e receipts exceeded those of the preceding year_ by over 26L The sum of 4,8551. had been collected by the Irish Society, . which, with the contributions from the auxiliaries, amounted to over 9 0131- and, deducting the expenditure, there* - , / 43 a ) glance of 1,5254 The report Was umicaottely adopted. - ---- INTENDED DEPARTURE of the PRINCE ALBERT for the ARCTIC SEAS. This little vessel, which, skilfully handled by Captain Forsyth, performed so remarkable a voyage last year, although she failed in her mission, is again on the eve of sailing from Aberdeen, in the hope of now accom plishing it. Mr. Kennedy, an experienced officer of the Hudson's Bey Company, is in command of the expedi tion; and Mr. Leask, ice-master of the North Star, who piloted that vessel thr oug h B a ffi n ' s B ay an d B a rrow' s Strait, is in command of the vessel Embarked with them is John Hepburn. This brave man, who was with Sir John Franklin , Richardson, and Back, when they explored the shores of the Polar Sea, a nd whose noble conduct under tryi n g c i rcums t a nces of no ordinary uale tore is imperish a bly wr it ten on the p age o f brnyO has ured volunteered his services to go in search of his honoured master. The crew of the vessel are a ll picked large portion b e i ng those who sailed her men—a in last year. gone down to Aber- Lady Franklin, we believe, ad is expected to remaindee Aber deen, w s h o e m re e t the isi vessel be directed to Prince Regent's Inlet, Prince Albert will • voyage is to explore the It is almost superfluous to say that . the course of the from of the Ca Bird, south, and the western coast of 800n...a Pe Ifthe ice coast fr om Brentford Bay. and that the main object eastern it, the • will be dispatched; and there is vessel will probably go to Brentford Bay, whence the• two boat parties every reasonable hope that the party destined for the western side will find a water communication between Brentford Bay and Cape Bird. At all events, the dis tance across cannot be more than ten miles, and be the Scotland.iß fitt in g hoaust , difficulties what they may, we doubt not Mr. Kennedy's energies and experience in travelling will succeed in overcoming them. Had the Government acceded to the request of Sir Robert Inglis to send a steam-vessel to bring us intelli gence from Captain Austin's squadron, the Prince Al bert would have gone straight to her work; but we have heard that she will now be directed first to endeavour to communicate with Griffiths's Island, in Barrow's Strait, where it is the known intention of Captain Austin's squadron , to leav e not i ces of their proceedings. Should they be of such a nature as to render it desir able for the Prince Albert to return to England to com municate the intelligence she gains, she will doubtless be authorised to do so; but should this not be necessary, we fear we must make up our minds to remain in igno rance till the autumn of 1852, when the ships will pro bably return; for there appears to us to be but little hope of learning an) thing until then, unless, indeed, Captain Austin nad the good luck (scarcely during that short season to be expected) to come up with the mis sing parties last year, in which case we may hope to have the equadron back in the ensuing autumn. It is not to he supposed that the whale ships will ven ture far to the westward, and in our opinion the only hope of learning anything will be by the return of the Ancient Mariner. The brave old man Sir John Ross rosy have gone to the westward with Captain Austin's ships, and will, in such case, be able to tell us of their whereabouts'; but this is by no means to be relied upon. We heartily wish that the gentry of the land would support the undertaking, by coming more liberally for ward with their subscriptions. Many have done so, but the great burden of the expense is still borne by Lady Franklin, which ought not to be allowed. An account is opened at Drumm,,nd's, and we earnestly hope that our app6al may not be altogether in vain. It is a noble and honourable service, and ought to be suppert:d by the noble and honourable of the land. We cannot omit to mention—though no tat liberty to give Lis name— that a commander in the navy, among other officers who have volunteered their services to Lady Franklin, ac companied his propesal to command the Prince Albert with an offer of 5001. towards the equipment of dee expe dition. We record this tact as one honourable to all con cerned, though Lady Franklin's acceptanceof the highly valuable services of Mr. Kennedy has, we understand, prevented her from accepting its obvious advantages. The Prince Albert is expected to sail for the polar regiors on or about the 15th, and she will not this time go out without the organ, which the illustrious Prince whose name she bears has kindly ordered to be put on board " to contribute to the amusement of the men" in the dreary depths of winter. TRIAL OF A LOCOMOTIVE ON THE CHESHIRE JUNCTION RAILWAY. The triad of the tractive powers of the Druid engine, concerned in the fatal collision in the Sutton tunnel, which was undertaken to satisfy Captain Laffan, the Government inspector, and the jury who are investi,gat ing the case, took place on Saturday morning at half past eight o'clock. The engi ne was i n good working condition, having been worked out at Chester on Thurs day night for Captain Laffan's inspection; she took on a train of eighteen carriages at Chester, consisting of two first.class, six covered seconds and thirds, and ten open stand-ups—the number sworn to by Mr. Crutchley, the station -master at Chester, and others, as being that dispatched in the train that blocked the road through the tunnel. The stand-ups were capacious vehicles from the North Staffordshire lines, capable of holding an im mense number of persons, sixty at least, and therefore gave reason for believing that one of the witnesses had been misled when he said there were twenty-five carriages in the train. The weight put in to represent passengers consisted of old chairs and rails, distributed over the whole, and making, as was expected, with the weight of the engine, tender, and carriages, 152 tons. Tha engine was assisted to Frodsham, and there awaited the tar ! rival ot Captain Laffan, who was punctual to his ap pointed hour. The coroner and six of the jury were in attendance, with Mr. Bragge, who manages the locomo tive department; Mr. Alleson, locomotive superin tendent; Mr. N orr i s , o f the London and North-Western Company, and others. Captain Latian made an experi mental trip through the tunnel, and returned, and then the train was attached. The engine drew her load very slowly, indeed, at starting, apparently scarcely able to move it; but she soon got over that, and attained a con siderable speed, reaching the mouth of the tunnel, about a mile and three-quarters, in ten minutes thirty seconds. She maintained her speed pretty evenly through the tunnel, and it was evident that she only decreased it when her wheels slipped, which they did some little, as was marked by a peculiar best. The tunnel was perfectly clear, and the end might be distinctly seen, like a section of a large circle, when the train was seen a quarter of a mile from the mouth at the Frodsham end. It was, however, wet, considerable quantities of water falling in large drops on the persons of the passengers. With the exception of the faltering named, the engine went through well, and reached the other end, a distance of a mile and a quar ter, in 3 minutes 55 seconds. She then went down the incline towards Moon, two miles off, at which station she finally drew up, 5 minutes 35 seconds after leaving the tunnel, travelling the whole five mil,s in 20 minutes, with that load on, at the rate of fifteen miles per hour. We should add that from the tunnel to Moon there was a strong wind blowing against the carriages at an angle of 45 degrees, or at the rate of fifteen miles per hour. Everybody seemed satisfied with the performance, and Captain Lain said the engine had done her work well; but in the evening, at the close of the inquest, he stated it would be requisite to have a second trial, as, on going back to Chester to ascertain for himself the actual weight in the trains, irrespective of the engine and car riages, he found it was 20 tons less than he had expected. He then gave the basis of his calculation for weight, which he averred Mr. Brugge gave in his evidence. He took 10 stand-ups at 65 passengers each—Mr. Bragge having said from 60 to 70—and that gave a total of 650 persons; the third class, it was in evidence, were much crowded, and he took them at 40 persons each, there were six ot them, which gave 240 persons; then the first class held 18 persons each, 36 for the two; that gave a grand total of 936 persons. He had taken it fur granted that they would be grown-up people, and as 12 atone each was the weight taken by Mr. Bragge him self, he had calculated on that, and the number of tone, 860 persons at that weight would be required to be on the train. Mr. Monk, the barrister, who appeared for the com pany, aid he thought 12 stone an immoderate estimate. Captain Lisffin said there might be 8 stone • people in the train, and they would go against the people of 16 stone. The train was crowded, and he thought a lower average could not be taken. The weight of 936 passen gers, at 12 stone each, would be 70 tons, but he found only 48 in the carriages, a difference of 22 tons. Mr. Brown, solicitor, said that 10 stone, and not 12, was the weight named as an average. Mr. Monk said he certainly should have spoken against such an average as 12 stone at the time if he had heard it named. .AMENT, The Earl of CARLISLE said, the Bill was founded upon a report which had been made by a Commission a few years ago. The Commission, composed of gentlemen of different views, were unanimous in recommending it. It bail been circulated largely among the clergy, who were generally in favour of it, and the Government also approved of the Bill as a well-conceived measure for promoting church ex tention within the pale of the Church itself. He believed that very good and cogent reasons could be shown for the provision for raising pew -rents, but it might be a question whether some means for obtaining the consent of the parish beforehand would not be a useful addition to the Bill. That was a matter, however, which would, no doubt, engage the attention of the Select Committee. The Bill was ordered to be referred to a Select Com mittee, and the House adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 12. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. The Lords' amendments to the Hartlepool Freemen's Lands and Harbour Dues Bill were considered arid agreed to. SECOND READINGS. The following Bills were then read a second time:— Brighton Extramural Cemetery; King's College Hos plod (No. 2); and Christchurch (Southwark) Parish Bills. PETI FIONS. A great number of petitions were presented against the Papal aggression. Mr. ORD presented a petition from Fife against the Prisons' (Scotland) Bill. Sir G. STRICKLAND presented a petition from Preston against the continuance of the Regium Donum. Colonel SIBTHORP presented a petition from Lin coln, complaining of agricultural distress. Colonel SALWEY presented a petition from Welling ton praying for electoral reform. Mr. ROBERT PALMER presented a petition from Berkshire against the Jew Bill. Mr. W. PATTEN presented a petition from the board of guardians at Preston praying for extended powers to raise loans for the relief of the poor. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Paddington, against the proposed encroachment on Kensington gardens. Sir G. GREY presented a petition from Northumber land, praying for a modification of the taxes on carriages. NEW WRIT. Major BERESFORD moved for a new writ for the Isle of Wight in toe place of Mr. Simeon. RAJA BROOKE. Mr. B. COCHRANE asked Mr. .Hume when he pro posed to bring forward his motion relative to Raja Brooke? He supposed now that Sir James Brooke had come to England, the lion. Member was afraid to bring it on —(lfear, hear. ) Mr. HUME said, so far from that being the case, he had been waiting the arrival of the Raja, and it Govern ment would only give him the day after to-morrow. the Hon. Gentlemen should see whether he was afraid to bring the motion on or not. audacious on the part of any Noble Lord on the Ministerial bench to seek a sort of triumph in the present state of Ire land. The Noble Marquis (Clanricarde) had said he never heard any guardians in that country speak in favour of pro tection. He (the Earl of Lucan) was a member of four boards of guardians in Ireland, and three-fourths of the guardians, if not the whole of them, were Protectionists. He never heard the guardians congratulate themselves upon cheap food, but he had often heard them lament that wretched paupers were driven to the workhouse in conse quence of agricultural labourers deserting their wives and children. After a few words in explanation from the Marquis of CLANRICARDE, the subject dropped. CHURCH BUILDINGS ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. On the order of the day being read for going into Com mittee on this Bill, Lord FOR [MAN said he considered some of the provisions of the measure very objectionable. It would affect the rights of some 30 ',BOO persons who now had free seats in churches, which had been erected by private subscriptions or by Church Building Societies, by giving power to the Ecclesiattical Commissioners to let one. half of those sittings, in order to es tablish a fund for the payment of the ministers. He believed that some of the clauses would contravene the statutes of mortmain. The Bill provided that the right of patronage should be vested in those parties who subscribed not less than 501. to the building of a church ; but why were persons who could not contribute such large sums to be deprived of a voice in the appointment of the ministers? He also objected to the clause which gave the right of nomination to any new church built in at extra-par ichial place to the bishop, in- , stead of leaving it with the subscribers. He suggested, as the Bill was nut a common-place one, but of high importance, well deserving the attention of the House, that it should be referred to a Select Committee. The Bishop of LONDON said, the Bill had been prepared with the view of providing additional ch.irch accommoda tion. The popular cry now was that the Church should find the means within herself of extending her borders, aid one of the most legitimate modes of doing so appeared to be from new-rents. The Church Building Commissioners had found that in many cases where they had set apart a larger number of free seats for the poor than they had thought fit to avail themselves of it would be desirable, and it had been so represented to them, to let those seats at reduced rents. He had no objection to the Bill's going before a Select Committee. Lord STANLEY did not doubt the goodness of the object for which the Bill had been proposed, nor was he disposed to say that in some cases the number of tree seats might not be curtailed ; but, in cases where persons had given large sums of money towards the building of a church, with the view of affording gratuitous accommodation to the poor, he thought it would be not only inexpedient in point of policy, but a breach of faith also, by ex post facto legislation to im pose a charge upon those seats. at the discretion of the Com missioners. He objected, therefore, to that ex post facto legislation. There was another point, also, which he thought deserving attention. It might be, under the Bill, in places where the parochial accommodation was amply sufficient, ifs ctarian feeling ran high, that the building of a church in the same neighbourhood might be authorised with the view of serving sectarian purposes alone. This was by no means an imaginary case, aad he feared that it might not be a peculiar one. The Bishop of OXFORD observed, that it would not be the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, but the Church Building Commissioners, who would have the power of charging pew rents. would have been well sifted, and Members been enabled to make those inquiries and obtain that information which they deemed necessary. The Bill not only affected the temporalities of religion, but the most vital and es sential parts of religion itself. and if it passed, it Would be impossible for a Roman Catholic bishop to be or dained consistently with the law of the land, and unless that ceremony took place, he could not be considered as one of the spiritual heads of the Church. He, therefore, called on the Speaker and the House, in com pliance with the standing order, to discharge the Bill. Sir G. GREY said he would not enter into the ex pediency of introducing the Bill in Committee, because that was not the real question before the House, but he might observe that the advantages mentioned by the Hon. Gentleman were perfectly imaginary. His Right Hon. Friend (Lord J. Russell) would not have been compelled to detail more minutely the provisions of the Bill in Committee than when he first introduced the Bill to the House.—(Hear, hear.) The Honour able Gentleman had stated that the standing order was made in 1773 in consequence of a Bill intro duced into the House, and ultimately objected to by the bishops. Now it so happened that the standing order was made in April, 1772, some mouths previous to that Bill being brought forward. There was also a similar standing order at the same time relative to Bills affecting trade, and those two were not new orders, but merely the separation of one order which was made in 1703, into two. The standing order, there fore, had certainly existed long before the Bill mentioned by the Hon. Gentleman was introduced. The real question was, whether the present Bill fell within the meaning of the standing order. If the Hon. Gentleman had succeeded iu showing that it did, he was willing to admit that no objection could be taken to the course which the Hon. Gentleman had pursued. But how did he purpose to show this? First, by quoting a letter written to the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Ripon before the Bill was- introduced, which relied mainly for its line of argument upon the word " acts" to be done by any bishop, which word, in fact, was not to be found in the Bill as it stood at present. The same was the case with the Hon. Gentleman's own argu ment, which rested mainly on the u e of the word "acts," which was omitted from the Bill. The Hon. Gentleman said, moreover, that if this Bill passed the Archbishop of Dublin would be unable to exercise the spiritual duties which he now exercised. If such were the case he would remind the Hon. Gentleman and the House that such had been the case ever since 1829, be cause that title had been prohibited by law ever since that time. Again. he would remind the Hero Gentle man that in 1831 a Bill was passed to legalise marriages among Roman Catholics. Now marriage was a solemn sacrament of religion among Roman Catholics, and tee Bill was introduced into the House without the prelimi nary form. Mr. ROEBUCK was of opinion that this was a question affecting religion, and as such came under the meaning of the standing order. At the present moment Roman Catholic priests were not prohibited from taking titles of sees which were not already appropriated by bishops of the Established Church, and a person bear ing the title of Bishop of W, sttninster could receive be quests to be applied to the benefit of his own religion. It, however, it passed he would not be able to do so, and for that reason he con sidered this was a Bill which interfered with religion, and the Noble Lord himself had acknowledged that by proposing to extract certain clauses from the Bill, and had thus put himself out of court. The SPEAKEit said, having been appealed to by two Honourable Members to state what his opinion upon this matter was, perhaps the House would /dew him to do so as shortly as he could. There was no authority founded upon any decision of the House for determining what was meant by the phrase " Bills relating to religion," but having looked closely into the reports of Bills which had passed the House which bore upon matters of religion he thought it was not necessary to pass a Bill through a Committee of the whole House, unless the Bill related to the spiritualities of religion. True, the Church Temporalities Act went through Com mittee, as had been stated by an Hon. Member, but to show that it was not because it related to religion that it was carried into Committee, he might mention that there was no allusion made to the standing order now under discussion, and the Bill passed through just as though it had been a money Bill. Then came the Bill for carrying into effect the report of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners. That was not introduced in a Commit tee of the whole House, because it was supposed to re late to temporal and not spiritual matters, and for pre cisely the same reason the Irish Marriage Act did not go through a preliminary Committee. Under all those circumstances he was of opinion that the Bill now before the House was not one which it was neces sary to introduce into Committee of the whole House. --(Hear, hear.) He was consulted upon this sub ject in the first instance without, of course, being made acquainted with the whole of its provisions, and he gave the same opinion then; and having since carefully considered the Bill, he saw no reason whatever to change that opinion. Mr. MILNER GIBSON said it appeared to him that the opinion of the Speaker went upon the assumption that this Bill interfered with relizion no further than did those Bills which the Right Hon. Gentleman had re ferred to; but that assumption was decidedly erroneous. He had considerable doubts whether, looking at the pro visions of the Bill, it was not a measure altering the laws concerning religion, and imposing pains and penalties on a portion of the people. Though he bowed with deference to the opinion of the Speaker, yet until they had submitted to him a proper case for his consideration, he thought they ought not to abide by the opinion wit oh he had just given to the House.—(Hear.) He would suggest that they should take the same course which was a !opted with the Irish Temperalitics Bill, and appoint a Select Committee to examine into precedents, and re port whether, according to the orders and rules of the House, the Bill should have been introduced in a Com mittee of the whole House.—(Hear.) Mr. GRATTAN said it wits absurd to suppose that this was a measure which did not affect the religion of his fellow-country men. It was a mockery, an insult, and an attempt to play upon words for the Noble Lord ,at the head of the Government to make such an assertion. Had they not for the last few months (ken almost entirely occupied in discussing red. gious subjects ? The ferment which the Bill 'had already given rise tu, end was likely to increas e would make the Ministers regret to the last day of their lives that they had passed such a measure. They had neither the courage, determination, or mind mo get Ireland out of the diffieulties in which their ii,so - Toe and overbearing Iseguage had placed her. If the Bill were passed, the Hou s e w ou l d not only be made the laughing-stock of the three kingdoms, but of the world. Nir. REYNOLDS moved that the debate be now ad journed, in order to afford time to inquire into prece dence. Mr. HUME was quite ready to consent to the ad journment of the debate. Mr. KEOGH contended that the Bill affected the spi ritualities of the Roman Catholic Church, and read the written opinion of Sir F. Kelly, vir. Brodie, convey ancer, and Mr. Baddele) , stating that the Bill would ren der it illegal for any archbishop or bishop of the Roman Catholic Church to exercise their official functions in this country, though they might be merely of a spirituai nature. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL apprehended, that the first thing that would strike any individual when considering the history of the standing orders in question, was that the sense in which the word "religion" was used in that order was one concerning matters of faith and doctrine, and Let mere matters of ecclesiastical management, superintendence, or jurisdiction. The question then was, whether this Bill aid in any way affect faith or doctrine, or in any manner concern spiritualities of any description. The Roman Catho lic Archbishop of Dublin, inueed said, that if the Bill passed he should not be able to ordain a priest or adminLaer the sacrament of confirmation. Was it intended, then, to be said that from the year 1829 to the present moment there had been no ordination and no sacrament of confirmation performed by any Roman Catholic archbishop or bishop in Ireland, except by the Bishop of Galway, whose see had been created since 1829, or by the Archbishop of Tuam, there being no Protestant archbishop of that title? If the argument of the Hon. and Learned Member for Mayo were right, such must have been the case, because the provisions of the present Bill were precisely similar to those contained in the Bill of 1829. He apprehended there was not a ,viember in the House. who wind / 1 tell him that a Roman Catholic bishop could not ordain a priest unless he were a bishop of some particular diocese—or that Dr. Wiseman could not have exercised his spiraual functions as well when Archbishop was of Bishop of Melipotamus as he cou ld w h en . Westminster. The real meaning of Dr. Murray's statemen t was this:—" There are certain temporal advantages which th e person ordained by me as Archbishop of Dublin n h rr would not possess if he were ordained by me under any l. title." But that was clearly out of the precincts of re ligion. It It dealt with temporalities merely. Reference made to an opinion of Mr. Willes, but how did tha t commence? fhe Learned Counsel said, had t s o tr p t i i n ct io ed n that the Archbishop cannot ordain or do s ' o ‘l an '' cl in d so: n u if nl l ess en i t t b.: under the title of Archbishop of Dublin co rectly instruct() t, then the Bill will have ; e s e a u r n n c h e an d . such d Counsel an effect." Now, in the first piste, if the L were truly instructed, then the Roman C . a i t r h e o la h n e d m Arc u h st bi h sh a o v p e of Dublin and all the Catholic bishops f been under an interdict for the last 22 years. Was such a statement made to the Lea ned Counsel?Heef(ththe kindeSol w ar icitor General) would venture to say that n othing ever hinted at; nor would any one ver y ser i ous ly contend that a Roman Catholic bishop's spiritu a l tunctions depended upon the title whi h he as. uaidßut it was dangerous to act upon the opi n i on s ofc e bu ' usel without knowing the stateinent Lid before oim. He would rather trust to the opinion gi ven b y the Right Hon. Gentleman in the chair, who formed hi s j udg. meet not only from the stan d ing or ders of the House, but from the clauses of the Bill which formed the subject mater to which those or ad apl oncl usion ied. He had tie doubt Mr. Speaker had arrived at righ p t c on this question . Th e Right Hon. Member for Manchester ( speaking ad inv.idialli) said that when they were removing disabilities the House went into a preliminary Committee, but that when they were imposing disabilities they did not think n necessary to go into Committee. But the Right Hon. Ge tleman must be perfectly aware of the reason why the House wens into Committee on the Catholic Relief Bill. That was a measure for altering an oath. There was a point remaining which deserved the consideration of the House. Looking at the time when the order was made, and when the word " reli gion" was used, he h • ming in tee first by the word " reli son „ place contended tnat gwas meant " faith and doctrine, " he would now ask —but what faith and docti ine? Was it not perfectly clear that it meant the faith and doctrine of the Es tablished Church ? The order meant that tie; House should not tamper with the established religion, nor alter its doc trines, without first havin the sanction of a Committee of the whol e H ouse. No law yer, on reading this Bill, would say that it me ant to effect ac h a nge in the doctrine or internal economy of the Roman Catholic religion ; and to say that the Bill wo u ld a l ter or affect the established religion would be absurd. The whole question was whether the Bill touched spiritualities. Looking at the Bill in ev l ery . point `of it View, he was o f op i n i on t h a t did not affect re l ig ion, touch any spiritual f unc ti on of the Roman Catholic n : nor Church. If he dep en d e d on prece d ents h e might refer to many; for instance, the Church Temporalities Act, the Tithes Commu tation Act, . the Vestries Bill, the Curates Bill ; these and for. other Billeted been paned ;.withOili SPY PrellimarY enee to a Committee of the whole House; he, therefore , thought that if the House were to yield to the argument which had been urged on this occasion, it would completely stultify itself, and at the same time be acting in direct oppo sition to the whole current of precedents. Mr. GLADSTONE thought the present discussion would have one useful result, in showing that the precedents on this important question were in a state that was most ei unsa tisfactory. Therefore, alth oug h t h at m i ght not b e a 8,. cient reason for interferri ng w i t h t h e progress o f t h e Bill, yet he thought it was most d es i ra bl e t h at some rule s h ou ld be laid down for their future guidance, in order that an uni formity of practice might p reva il i n a matter of no inconsi d erable importance. Th e S o li c i tor- G eneral h a d argue d the question with gr ea t f a i rness . Th e two main quest i on s, a , the Hon. and Learn e d G ent l eman ha 4 stated were—first, whe her the word " religion" in the standing order included any religion except th e es t a bli s h e d rel i g i on? and, if it did, then, secondly, w h et h er, there being the Roman C a tho• lic religion in this country, it could be said that. its spiritualities were touched by This Bill or not? It al:07 peered to him ( Mr. Gladr.one) that the Solicitor-Gener al was perfectly right i n say i ng that the proper mean i n go . the standing order was, that it regarded not religion ra l n s general, but the e s t a bli s h e d re li g i on of the country. if t h at were so, what w as th e course which precedent pointed to f or ~ the House t o follow ? Th ere was, h e feared, no cens iste . n! or uniform p rece d ent. The precedent of 1772 wo uld lead to the inference that Bills which tended to affect the securities of the established religion ought to pass through preliminary Committees. It was true the Act of 1778 tor the relief of the Roman Catholics was passed withal going through any such C omm i ttee, bat then there were vete;n" preceuents the other way . There was the Act of 182 8, , the repeal of the Corporation and Test Acts, the Act °, 1829, for the E manc i pation of the Roman Catholics , an d several other Bill s , all of which were introdoc7 through the medium of a Committee. The S° tor-General had said that the reason those Bills were submitted to an intermediate Committee was, that th e) altered an oath. He (Mr. Gladstone) did not think that circumstance was alone sufficient to account for the practict He was of opinion th a t th e standing order was intende d i protect the established religion ; and that whenever Pali!: ment dealt with the secur i t i es which the established re f ' s gion possessed, whether good or bad, the Bills so sleet in g with them must pass through a preliminary Committee! The Honourable and L earne d G entleman had also said the th- meaning of the standing order was that Parliame nt should not tamp er w i t h t h e established religion; but t hat when measures n ere to be passed for strengthening the secu rities of that religion then it was not necessary for such in sure to go thro ug h a prel i minary Committee. He ( 3 . Gladstone) beli eve d t h at that argument contained the pi t h , ~ and gist of th e w h o l e matter, that that was the doctrine W be ex`rac:ed from the whole heap of precedents before thee , and that Bills which injuriously affected, weakened, O r diminished the securities of the Establisher Church, ougbt to pass through a preliminary Committee; but that BO which purported t o strengthen those securities did not re" quire to go through that preliminary st , ge. Looking, boy ever, at the preamble of the present Bill, he confessed be thought that rule ought to be applied both ways.—(lle /1 hear.) This Bill w as not lik e one for repealing a tax; hot it was a measure w hi c h , wh i le giving to one party, "',, taking away from another ; while it tended to strengthife the Church of England. it took from the Roman Catholics that which they would otherwise enjoy. The question vit s one involved in considerable difficulties; and he thought it would be wise, whether with reference to the present Bill, or to the future cou rse o f l eg islatlll, to appoint a Committee of inquiry in order to fix upon some clear and authoritadV ° construction of this important standing order, so that the practice of the House, which had been hitherto confused and unintelligible, might be math clear, practical, and intelligible- Mr. SADLEIR thought the very showing of Governmen t in their speeches proved the Bill had reference to the Este' blished Church. Indeed, he believed the Bill went further than was ever contemplated by the restrictive clauses of th e Act of 1829. The gallery was then cleared for a division, but after as short interval the door was re-opened, and we found Lord J. RUSSELL addressing the House. He was ob serving there was no ground for further delay on the subject- The instances of the Corporation and Test Acts and of the relief of Roman Catholic disabilities, quoted by the Eigl it Hon. Member (Mr. Gladstone) referred to supposed secure, ties for the reli g i on of the country, and those p rece d en ts not apply to the present case: He did not believe a Select Committee could do anything more than leave the question to the discretion of the House. Mr. BRIGHT' recollected that the Noble Lord had with drawn clauses from the Bill, on the ground that they affected the spiritualities of the Roman Catholic faith, and therefore the Bill came within the undoubted practice of the House* The Noble Lord invited the House to inflict an injury 00 8,000,000 or 10,000,000 inhabitants of the United Kingdom' and to pass over certain rules which the Established Church had insisted on for its own security. The Roman Catholic population stood before the House in precisely the same rela tion as the members of the Established Church, a nd the Noble Lord ought to have been more careful, when taking away their rights, to proceed with the utmost caution then if he were engaged on a matter which would affect the power of the dominant church. It would be only fair, in order W satisfy the Roman Catholics to refer the question to a Select Committee, when they would see the house proceed with as much care and delicacy in their case as in that of the Es' tablished Church. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the motion of adjournment 53 Against it ... 179 Majority for going on with the debate--126 On returning to the gallery, Mr. LAWLESS was speaking. He did not believe thee majority represented the sense of the House, but that they represented the influence of the Government. He would move that the House be adjourned.—(oh! oh!) Mr. GRATTAN, as a P rotestant Member, wished to se cond the motion, and appealed to the Noble Lord not to pm, the question as a nr.t.ter ot good feeling. Lord J. RUSSELL said that he had seen in the majority many Hon. Members who had in general been opposed to his Government, and that he had never seen a, more attentive Hou , e than had been present during this debate. That the House should now be called on to adjourn made him suspect n. Gentlemen had faltered in the resolution which it was said they had come to—not to make any factious opposition to the Bill—a resolution which he had very much admired. (Hear, and laughter.) They had beard the opinion of the Speaker and of several liqn. Members well acquainted with the forms of the House, and if there were any Irish Members who thought they had a better opinion on points of order than the Speaker and these Hon. Members, perhaps it would be as well tor the House to hear it. Mr. REYNOLDS disclaimed any intention of offering factious opposition, but was not aware that any such reso lution as the Noble Lord mentioned had been agreed upon- He was afraid the Irish Members would disappoint the Noble Lora in his anticipations of their poht cal politeness. Would :he Noble Lord consent to nominate a Select Committee, and he (Mr. Reynolds) w,uld not object to the debate going on pare pease ? Mr. KEOGH thought the Noble Lord had admitted it might be desirable to examine into precedents, which west in effect allowing the propriety of a Committee. If be granted the Committee, they would not oppose his proceed ing with the Bill. The Speaker said the reason why the order of the House did not apply was, that the Bill did not affect the spiritualities of the Roman Catholic Church, The Solicitor-General argued that the order did not apply,because it was intended to refer to the Protestant religion exclusively. Surely such a difference of opinion was good ground for Committee. Sir G. GREY denied that his Noble Friend had expressed any opinion in favour of a Committee. He had argued that the questicn was of a different nature from those which had been referred to. Mr. ANSTEY was of opinion that the course the Roman Catholic Members were pursuing was not calculated to swell the minority opposed to the Bill. He desired to separate himself from them, because their object was evidently to throw obstructions in the way of the House, and prevent it from proceeding with the Bill. Mr. MOORJ, expressed his surprise that the Hon. Mem ber, who had hitherto been the very personification of obstruc tion—who had spent one whole session in obstructing every thing—his own Bill among the res7—(A laugh )—should now lecture others for following his example. Every Member unconnected with the Government who had spoken in the course of the debate admitted t desirableness of appointing a Committee. It' the Noble Lord would consent to the ap pointment of a Commi'tee, the motion for adjournment would be at once withdrawn. The House divided, when there appeared - For the adjournment ... 36 ... 145 Majority 109 The motion was then renewed for the Speaker leaving he chair for going into Committee on the Bill, upon which Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL rose to explain to the .House . Ida reasons for opposing it, as he had not an opportunity of doing so on the second reading. He considered that the act of the Pope was not such as to have called for legislation on the part of either House of Parliament. Up to last autumn the Roman Catholics of England were governed by a body of vicars apostolic, and those vicars apostolic were the nominees of the Pope. The Bill before the House had been met by a great display of opinion in the country. That feeling spread through the length and breadth of the land, and the present attempt at legislation was the result of a certain undefined wi s h on t h e part of the people, that Parliament should do something. He , Gateinugtlemfroeam t c h on e t c en h d o e r d eh , l o o f o E k n a g t la th nd at . m co o u v ld em n e o n t, t a a s s so o m ne e H em on a . n The excitement out of doors was merely proof of an anxiety of feeling is the country that this House should interfere and were attacl in religious matters. He thought , altogether unnecessareei-tse__ tion on this subject was If the however, that Church of Eng the P. pe's nominees presu .ed, let it defend t or t civil med to claim temporal o authority over the Soverethe time to i n t er f ere, i gn of these ratline, then would be refuse toand no loyal Roman Catholic would s ' - ' l5. • lie should oppose the progress of the Bill, and he would join in every legitimate division that could be : - aken on its me • tits at future stages. Mr. URQUHART • said, that when he last addressed the House he was virtually precluded from entering into any question but that of the conduct of the Governm ent. Since Lord that period t h e Noble the head at of the Government itn had o of nepe d up a branch o f th e quest i on wh i ch appeared to h great, importance, and upon which he wished to ade dress a few considerations to the House. The Noble Lord state,' that the motive and object of the Papal Government in the step it had lately taken had been not a religious but a political one; that the Government of the Pope, operated upon by the Government of certain other European countries, who were alarmed at the great influence which England exercised on the Continent in favour of Liberalism and Con. stitutional government, had been induced to take the step in question for the purpese of setting England in a flame; that, in short, the measure had a diplomatic origin. Nor was the Noble Lord alone in this statement. Statements in a similar strain (which he quoted) had been made by Lord Clarendon, by the Hon. Member for the University' of Ox. ford, by the Noble Lord the Member for Bath, and others. The Noble Lord at the bead of the Foreign Department had said that it was irnposeible for us to meet the aggression by diplomatic arrangement, because after the Pope had taken so decided a course we should only expose ourse'ves by so doing to humiliation and defeat. The Master of the Rolls, however, had used a very different argument. He said, .4 How could we go to Reme after the introduction of the clause into the Diplomatic Relations Bill which had offended the Pope and vitiated the action of that measure?"—(Hear.) The whole question had been placed in a faulty position by the introduction of the topic of the law of nations; for there were no treaty rights with respect to the Pope, and unless the Pope had injured one of our citizens, infringed our territory, or done some such act, that question could not arise. 1n Armenia the same conduct had been pursued as in England by the Pope, but there, as the matter was treated %%Lb contempt, the Roman Catholics protested against it. If, however, the sante course had been pursued in Armenia as had been followed in England, and if the people nad been toll that by th e act of the Pope the undivided sway of the Su'tan was in danger, probably the whole body of the Armenians would have exhibited the same servility as the Roman Catholics here had shown to that potentate, the Pope. The Hon. M em b er having re'erred to the occupation of Rome by the F. encb, and to the offer, as he observed, of the Czar of Russia's treasury and arms for the Pope's aid, expressed laic wiwictioil that some cause other than religious Was the TUESDAY- EVENING, MAY l3, 1851. IMPERI The Foreman of the jury, Dr. Wilson, conceived that 11 stone was nearer an average. There was some further conversation, all turning upon the point of how the weight could be ascertained; one person suggested that the area of each carriage might be t.,ken, and the number of persons who could stand on it, and their weight. Another suggestion was that a car riage should be filled and weighed, empty and full, and that seemed to receive the sanction of the parties inte rested. Captain Laffau showed how he had ascertained the weight of dead metal in the train, still going on Mr. Bragge ' s figures, and remarked that Mr. Norris had ar rived, by a separate calculation, at within half a ton of the same weight as himself. The jury broke up with the understanding that the engine was to be tested on Monday (this morning), with the full calculated weight. It is but justice to Mr. Bragge to say that his calcu lation of weight did not accord with Captain Latin's. THE ESTATE STEALING MORTGAGE SYSTEM. Attention is directed to the estate stealing mortgage system, practised by persons of apparent respectability pretending to assist the owners of estates with advances. In building transactions the cases have been of common occurrence, oa account of ti - :e high rate of interest, large margin of value, and opportunities for disputing every advance required as the works proceed. In man) other cases, examination of titles and sur veys of property, are charged for without the slightest intention of making advances, and abstracts or other im portant documeets detained until extortionate charges are paid. Tne most effectual remedy against such frauds will be a register of cases, and the names of parties engaged in concocting theal,and mortgagors should become members of protection societies to ascertain who may be safely trusted in such important negotiations. Respectable so- ILitors and honourable agents will also derive advantage by being distinguished from the disreputable. The want of public attention to this description of fraud has been the cause of depriving thousands of widows and orphans of property ample for their support if it had been fairly protected. Ttie abwes under the foreclosing system in the Court of Chancery, facilitate the frande in many cases, instead of protecting , mut tgagora trypublic asks in the way cal culated t 3 obtain the best pristes, or granting reasonable time fur redernpti.,n, according to circumstances. The estate stealing mortgage system is in principle similar to bill stealing, but carried on by a more wealthy class of practitionfTs. HOUSE OF LORDS, May 12. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the Wool sack at Five o'clock. CRIMINAL LAW AMENDMENT BILL. Lord CAMPBELL said, in reference to the two Bills relating to the amendment of the criminal law which stood for committal that day, he had received a commu nication from Lord Denman, stating that he approved of the principle of those Bills, and that he should wish to suggest some amendments in them; now as the suggestions of his Noble and Learned Friend could not but be most valuabl e , an d h e was h appy to :fi nd that his Noble and Learned Friend still took an interest in the subject, he would move the postponement of the Committee on those Bills, in order to afford him an op portunity of receiving the very valuable suggestions of his Noble and Learned Friend.—Agreed to. EXCHEQUER BILLS BILL. This Bill was read a third time, and passed. INDEMNITY BILL. This Bill was read a third time and passed. PETITIONS. The Bishop of WINCHESTER presented several pe titions against Papal aggression. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented several petitions against Papal aggression. Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from a parish in Perthshire to the same purport. The Earl of ENNISKILLEN presented several peti tions from places in Ireland to a similar purport. The Duke of ARGYLE presented several, petitions from places in Scotland to a similar purport. The Earl of HARROWBY presented several peti tions praying for a repeal of the Sale of Beer Act; also several petitions in favour of copyhold enfranchisement. FOREIGN FLOUR. The Earl of GLENGALL presented a petition of which he had given notice from the grand jury of Tip perary in favour of protection to home-made flour. The Noble Earl said this was a most serious question. There was as large an amount of capital invested in flour-mills as there was in cotton-mills, and in Ireland the flour establishments were as large as the cotton es tablishments in England, and now the French had erected mills and undersold them in the market in the finer specimens of flour. The Irish mill-owners had pur chased up all the corn in Ireland, and had driven a most profitable trade in it, and now their profits would be sensibly diminished by the importation of French flour, and the carriage of corn and flour would be di minished. He had frequently seen in the town with which he was connected 500 or 600 carts employed in carrying corn to these mills, and bringing the flour away. The consequence of free trade had been that these mills had been ruined, aid that the people had been compelled t live upon that nasty filth called Indian meal, which was positively poisonous. The people could not work upon it. In all the milling districts the workhouses were crowded, and they bad been compelled to take auxiliary workhouses, and those auxiliary workhouses had formerly been stores for the millers for Irish corn. This was a positive fact. It reacted on this country, producing a deluge of Irish paupers, who were sent over by the Irish unions at half a-crown a head; and if they continued the free-trade system they would have all the Irish paupers sent over to England. Now for the facts. In 1849 there had been imported into England of foreign flour 3,349,899 cwt.; in 1850, 3,890,440 cwt.; whereas hi 1847 there had been imported only 1,339,000 cwt. of flour. He then proceeded to show that a large bonus was realized by importing foreign grain in the shape of flour, instead of in its raw material, owing to its being rendered capable of stowage in a smaller compass by that process. He con tended that there was as large an amount of capital invested in flour mills as there was in cotton mills; that in Ireland the flour mills were as costly as the cotton mills of England ; and that it was a lamentable circumstance that the French millers, who lived at no cost on board of the vessels with which they imported the finest flour into Ireland, should undersell the Irish and the British miller in their own mar kets. He concluded by expressing his conviction that free trade would be destructive of all the best interests of the country, and that under its fatal dominion industry would never reap the advantages which were its due, and skill and energy would be of no use. Earl GRANVILLE observed that it was always a dis agreeable task to make a reply to a statement of distress, when, in admitting the existeuce of that distress to a certain extent, you had to deprecate the remedy which was proposed for its relief. He (lid not feel himself bound on the present occasion either to reply to the objections which the Noble Earl had urged against the system of free trade generally, or to enter into a discussion on the state of Ireland, into which the Noble Earl had entered so largely, especcially when the accounts which he had received- from various quarters dis proved, rather than proved, the accuracy of the Noble Earl's information. He believed that the - distress suffered by the millowners of Ireland, and so elaborately detailed by the Noble Earl, existed to a considerable extent; but he could not agree with the Noble Earl that it arose from increased competition with the Freech millowners, or with his sug gestion that protection to home -Made flour would be the best remedy for it. He also believed that distress was sustained by the millowners of England. They were undergoing at this moment the same fate which often befell the manufac turers of the country. Amid the, improvements which had recently been made in the construction of mills and machi nery, it was found that those millowners who had a limited capital, and resided at a distance front the best markets were gradually displaced by those who had a larger amount of capital, and who had the bene fi t of the best markets. It could not be disadvantageous to the millowners to have the raw material of their trade cheap ; for its cheapness led to greater consumption on thopart of the people; and, there fore, they must derive advantage, as well as the bulk of the community, from having a larger introduction of grain than formerly into the markets of this ceuntry. With regard to the competition of the French millowners, he had recently seen a French gentleman, well known to many of their Lord ships, who had recently held high office in France, M. De lessert (we think his Lordship said), and that gentleman had informed him that there was nD branch of industry in France in which so much progress hid been made in the last 20 years as that with which 'the millowncra were connected, and that, nevertheless, the millowners were at that moment complaining loudly of the insufficient remuneration which they received in return for their laboar and their capital. It was clear, from the statement made to him by M. Delessert, that some of the minor millowners of France must have given way in the competition which they bad recently under gone with the larger capitalists, and yet he did not expect that any of their Lordships would be prepared to say that it would have been a wise measure on tie part of the French Government to have bolstered up the weaker portion of this trade by aid furnished from the resources of the state. An other observation which had fallen from the Noble Earl was that the French farmer was deriving great profit from im porting corn to England. Now he (Earl Granville) had every reason to believe that the cantrary wa s th e f act. The same complai n t s w hi c h were ma d e in England of the dis tressed condition of the English fanner were made in France respecting the distressed condition 'of tie French farmer. He likewise believed that the great distnies alleged to be suf fered by the British milloo ners was disproved by the success of the mill recently erected at Battersta, and by the nume rous new mills now in course of Contraction in different parts of the country. The Noble Earl had suggested that flour should be immediately protected by a duty, which would enable the miller to continue his operations. He (Lord Granville) was not disposed to underrate the very dangerous commercial, political, and social consequences which he believed would result if the Legislatire determined to re vert to the system of protective import duties upon grain ; but he must say he thought such a measure would be infinitely more defensible than to afford protectios to the millers be cause a portion of that body were involved in some distress in consequence of the altered circumcances of their re spective localities. The Noble Earl had said that this ques tion would be brought torward again,; ani he could only say that, if a definite proposition were submitted to the House, his Noble Friends behind him would be quite ready to dis cuss it. The Earl of MALMESBURY said hehad taken some pains about a fortnight ago to ascertain the real state of the agri cultural body in France, aod he had' been informed that during the year 1850 the amount of agricaltural produce— wheat, wheaten flour, and barley—exported from France to this country was equal in value (as we understood) to some 2,00t),0001. beyond the ordinary exports. ",,It was clear, then, that France could n o t on ly f ee d her own people, but had a surplus of food to spare; and it could.- not, therefore, be Maintained that the agricultural body in' France were in a similar condition to the agriculturists of this country. If the French exported at a loss, was it conceivable that their ex• ports would have increased in three years from 2'6,000 quarters to 595,000 quarters? Noble Lords opposite had publicly lamented the distress of the agricultual interest; the Noble Earl (Granville) had acknowledged that distress existed among the millers; but yet these Noble Lords had not made the slightest attempt to relieve that-distress. The Earl of HARDWICKE considered it a striking fact that there was not one interest which came before either House of Parliament that was not in a depressed condition. The distress of the agricultural interest, had been acknow ledged in the Speech from the Throne; and now the millers, freetraders themselves, had turned round and were, ,calling upon Parliament for protection. It was said ,that these petitioners were milers who were in a small way of business, but very recently a miller of Wakefield, who fed 200,000 people from his mill, had written to . Mr. Cobden, as his re presentative, begging him to change his views on "the sub ject of free trade. What, too, was the condition of th,e ship ping interest, and what was the character of the daily and weekly rep its of trade from Manchester ? He might remind their Lordships , that Ireland was no longer a floui ishiugaex porting country, as it was previously to 1845, but that it was now a large importing country. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE observed, that if Noble Lords opposite thought proper to bring the state of Ireland under discussion, he thought his Noble Friends would be able to show that the various interests of that country were. not in the distressed condition that had been represented. The, whole question of p ro t ect i on an d t ree tra d e wa s raised by the suggestion of the Noble Earl, that an import duty should be imposed upon flour, and into that subject he would not enter. He might say, however, as the Noble Earl had referred to the number of paupers in Ireland, that although it was un fortunately too true that the workhouses in the west of Irelmd were extremely full, be would ask the Noble Earl what would be the condition of the ratepayers, as well as of the paupers in those unions, if, instead of having food at the reasonable price at which it was now obtained, protec tive duties were imposed which rendered the price' of food high ?—(Hear, hear.) He 'Could speak confidently as to the opinion of the Poor-law guardians, and he had not met with a single guardian in Ireland who was not so far an ad vocate of free trade as to say, " If we had not at this tin.e cheap food, it would be utterly impossible for us to support our paupers." He believed that no persons had suffisred so much from the removal of protective duties as the millers in the south and west of Ireland, but the question raised by the Noble Earl (Glerigall) was one of great importance; and unfortunately the case of the Irish millers could not be con ridered in an isolated point of view, and without reference to other interests of the country. After a few words in reply from the Earl of GLENGALL, The Duke of ARGYLL observed, that there was an im mense pressure upon Glasgow, and other large towns in Scotland, in consequence of the influx of Irish paupers. The parochial officers were frequently obliged to give them half-a-crown a-piece to sena them back to Ireland—(A laugh) —and he hoped that no more half-crown paupers would be sent over from Ireland. The Rat of LUCAN was sure his Noble Friend (the Earl of Glengall)-had never intended to say that it was the prad tics to send over paupers from Ireland.—(Laughter.) He had, during the last ten years, resided in that country for a eonsiderable part of every year, and at no former period was there anything at all equal to the amount of distress at pre+ sent, existing there. At no period was the cultivation of land in Ireland so totally neglected' as at this moment, es pecially in Mayo and Galway, and he therefore thought it was, if he might .use the expression - without offence, tolerably MONEY -ORDER OFFICE. Mr. J. WILLIAMS gave notice of his intention to put a question to the Secretary of the Treasury to-mor row on the -übj,ct of the money -order department of the General Poit-office. PUSEYISM IN THE CHURCH. Sir B. HALL asked the Prime Minister what steps the archbishops and bishops of the Established Church had taken in pursuance of the letter addressed by the Secretary of State to the Archbishop of Canterbury, b) command of her Majesty, for the purpose of suppressing certain practices in places of worship belonging to the Established Church; zed whether the Bishop of London had taken, or was about to take, any legal proceedings against any of the clergy who sanctioned what his Lord ship calls "histrionic performances," in the churches within his diocese. Lord J. RUSSELL said he was not in a position to state what steps had been taken with respect to the matter alluded to by the Hon. Baronet, and strongly deprecated the inconvenience which would arise from asking such questions in the House. NEW RIDE IN KENSINGTON -GARDENS. Mr.HUME intimated that he would bring the subject as to the proposed new ride in Kensington -gardens before th. House to-morrow. EX rENSION OF THE FRANCHISE. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave notice of a motion for next session with respect to the extension of the franchise. ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES BILL. On the motion for going into Committee on this Bill, Mr. MOORE rose to move that the standing order, which requires that Bills concerning religion should be first considered in a Committee of the whole House, be read, and that the order for the Committee on Eccle siastical Titles Assumption Bill be discharged. The reason of this motion was, he said, drawn from the standing order of the House, which declared that all Bills relating to religion or any alteration proposed in the laws on this point should Originate in a Committee of the whole House. Mr. May, a high authority in these matters, had said that this order had always been construed as applying to religion, and not to the temporalities of religion bodies, and it was on this ground that the Roman Catholic Relief Bill had been considered first in a Committee of the whole House; and afterwards the Church Temporalities Ireland Bilf had been brought in without that preliminary step. He was quite willing to admit, if the Bill were to be regarded only with reference to its first motive, or if the amend ments of the Government were to restore It to a mere temporal measure, that his objection would at once fall to the ground, but his objection was against the Bill as first introduced, and he thought it was not necessary fur him to argue before any lawyer or educated gentleman of that House that ordination and Ihe administration of sacraments were not mere temporal incidents, but essentially spiritual. He quoted a letter from Archbishop Murray, in which that Rev. Prelate stated that he could not perform his ecclesiastical functions except in his character of arch bishop, end then the Hon. Gentleman proceeded to ob serve that the letter containing that opiniom produced such an effect upon the Noble Lord at the head of the ,Government, that, with a spirit of liberality which re called the incidents of the Noble Lord's early career, he consented to make a material alteration in the Bill. Now, assuming the opinion of Dr. Murray, and the admission e t the Government that followed, to be correct, bow could any one pretend to say that the Bill related only to tem poralilies, and would in no way interfere with reli gion P But it might be said that Dr. Murray was no lawyer, and therefore his opinion could not he held to be conclusive. Well, in order to meet that objection, a ca , e had ken submitted to Mr. Willes, of the Toner Temple, one of the. Commissioners appointed to inquire into the hest means of amending the law on this very subject, and he h a d given it :as his opinion, which had since been confirmed by Sir Fitzroy Kelly and Mr. Baddeley, that this Bill, if it passed into a law, would place the duty of Dr. Murray, as an archbishop of his Church, in direct eoefliet with hi s duty as a subject of the Queen. It might, however, also be objected that the effect of the Bill was only constructive and not di rect; b ut though he was not lawyer enough t to decide b etween the two he was sufficiently learned to perceive th at the effect of the Bill upon hc Catholic Ch urc h wou l d be to prevent the ec exercise of religious functions, and hence the not be const ruc ti ve , but direct.—(Hear, (Hear' standing order to whi c h he r e ferred was made in 1773 din to the House hear.)efft m T u h s on the occasi o n o f a Bill b e i n g introduced When that Bill went up to the Ho use _ it on the ground of Commons for the relief of Protestant D o i f sse L n u t r e u r s: s several of the bishops objected that it was After en and it was consequently negatived.the rejection o f th e rl e y ted to improperly ethyeruodoifftseirueendt. frAomndthi; ever there was a Bill which showed th e w i sdom ot ' Bills being introduced into Parli ament Bill, this standing order was passed, in order in f uture to guard against ( c r e l and d u e u a t t u i n r e e ly o withf the p a ro t v it i l s e io a n i s tog th '' this enactment, or to what it was intended to apply, it was the present one. He considered if the Bill had been prough; forward ifs Committee its Whol e proilione UNIVEItsII Y INTELLIGENCE OXFORD, MAY IU.—MERTON COLLEGE.—An election of three Postmasters will take place on Friday, June 20. Candidates are desired to call on the Warden on Monday, June 16, with testimonials of good conduct and certificates of baptism. In the election to one Post mastership, a preference will be given to attainments in mathematics. No candidate will be admitted under 17 or above 19 y ears of age. QUEEN'S COLLEGE.—There will be an election of an Exhibitioner on the Michel Foundation at Queen's Col lege, on Thursday, the 19th of June next. Candidates must be natives of the province: of Canterbury, who have attained the full age of 15, and not exceede4 the age of 20 years; and, if members of the University, must not have been matriculated more than 12 calendar mouths. At the same time there will be an election of two,...Exhibitioners on the foundation of Sir Francis BridgEman. Candidates to be natives of Lancashire, Cneshire, or Wilts. Certificates of baptism and the usual testimonials of good_ conduct from their school or college are to be presented by the candidates to the Provost on Saturday, the 14th of June. The examina tion will commence on MOnday, the 16th, at 10 P.N. BRASENOSE COLLEGE. Messrs. Turner, Bethel!, Betting, and Kenyon, of Lincoln's Inn, have given it as their opinion, in reply to the "case" submitted to them by the pricipal and scholars of Brasenose College, " that the Commission of the 31st of August, 1850, is ;not, as respects Brasenose College, constitutional or legal, and that it is not such as the college or its members are bound ,to obey; and that the Commission cannot be sup ported by any prerogative or other right in the Crown." UNIVERSITY BOAT RACES.—The University boat races will commence on Monday, the 191. h inst., and be continued on the following dates:—Tuesday, the 20:11; Thursday, the 22d; Saturday, the 24th; Monday, the 26th; Tuesday, the 27th; Thursday, the 29th; and Friday, the 30th. ------------ A USEFUL DOG.— A well-dressed young woman, on Saturday, entered a restaurant not far from the terminus of the Orleans Railway, and told the waiter to bring her in all haste a basin of soup, as she was about to take her de parture by the next train. This was immediately done; and after having taken it, and paid the waiter, she was hurrying away, saying that she should certainly be late, when she perceived her passage barred by a large dog which refused to let her pass. She attempted by caresses to put it aside, but the animal held firm, and opposed her way. " I shall certainly be late !" cried she. "Do take away that horrible dog 1' The waiter and the master cried out, " Vidocq, Vidocq! give way sir," but the dog never stirred. One of the waiters here whispered something to the master, who, coining up to the young woman, said, "If my dog prevents you leaving the premises, the reason must be that you have some of the property belonging to the house about you. You had better give it up at once, and go your way." The person thus addressed at first affected great indignation at being so addressed, but at last drew out a silver spoon, which she banded to the owner of the restaurant. The dog then allowed her to pass, and she was hurrying off when she was seized by her man telet, and forced to stop. This time it was a police agent, who had been on the look-out for se - eral persons stupected of being concerned in a robbery, and who, it was thought, might attempt to get off by the railway. She was arrested, and on examination her mantelet was found,to be furnished with immense pockets for receiving pil fered goods. It is said that this is not the first time that the c o hi g uT . re b nh e e lo o n itit g T i o n ur g eas t d,r o al t o h Ne r o es r taurateur, has shown himself& faith fduayg,uta:dtiheen o e t o h n,f i t s iti m i master ' s property.— Galignani's Messenger. L indicatedon t n ui r that mode t h e a e,cam p rbt a uh r ot t f i a a tt l T h l partially successful s E u c E c e A s : I f u T l ii ..--- attemptEAßTH.—The e iRn Rev. M o w r n fault, of course, or the currents of air is public assembled lay with the construction wasthe room. Further experiment sa , on his W machinee (l nes - been conducted with h t i e o n hi s way. attempts apparatus, were The ; pended by a fine brasfr An experiment at Spring-garden has et care. A sulb. ball has been sus more satisfactory. pivot, at the top is an' wire 28 feet long, and the joint or one, which of course moves ccveurately prepared ball and socket tions. The ball, which ha s s willi equal facility draw point projecting from it below, was made to traverse a circular table of six feet die in all diree ivmieutcehr,daitandeuilttyinwvaasriea.bpleeriteenneledeedin the proper direction. getting the ball to swing in a mathematically accurate lane getting obstacle having been overcome , the revolution of the e, and of course of the world, under the pendulum, became quite apparent. Furtlier experiments are to be 1ud0...44m illeraU. _. Lord J. 1 846. Mr. KE twin obser "I will I before. I ae it ougb answer to bent of a in this cou ant consen Wiseman Noble LOT "But I Rteat impc the Roma Should be designated tot imply ceive, the] any prk.ce * -- (Hear, 1 aide woul4 Vould pui C