The Sun. — London, England, 1850-04-27 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE . OF LORDS, April 26. Their Lordships assembled at Five o'clock. The Earl of RODEN presented several petitions praying that Scriptural schools in Ireland might have a share in the national grant. _ _ The Earl of HARROWBY presented several petitions praying for a repeal of the Sale of Beer Act. The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from the Tower Hamlets in favour of the Extramural Inter ments Bill. He took that opportunity of returning his thanks to the Government for having embodied the re commendations of the Sanitary Commissioners on extra mural interment into a Bill. He believed that the pass ing of some such Bill was absolutely necessary for the health of the metropolis. The Bill had been drawn up in a• very masterly manner, and he hoped the Govern ment would firmly resist any attempt to alter the provi sions of that Bill. Earl TALBOT presented a petition from a parish in the island of Jamaica praying for a faithful observance of the treaties with Spain and Brazil for the suppression of the slave trade. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 26. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. PETITIONS. Mr. THORNELY presented a petition from Wolver hampton in favour of international arbitration. Ur. WILSON PATTEN presented a petition from Chorley, in Lancashire, against the Highways Bill; also a petition from Lancashire against secular education. j l Mr. PLUMPTRE presented nineteen petitions from Kent and other places against Sunday labour in the Post office. Colonel LLOYD WATKINS presented a petition, signed by 200 of the principal inhabitants of the parish of Llywel, in the county of Brecknock, praying th© House that for the future there should be no transmis sion of mails nor delivery of letters in the United King dom during the 24 hours of the Lord's day. Lord RENDLESHAM presented a petition from - a place in Suffolk in favour of an international system of penny postage. Mr. MILNER GIBSON presented a petition from Manchester praying for the removal cf the taxes on knowledge. The Earl of MARCH presented petitions from a place in Sussex in favour of the Ten Hours Factory Bill, and against Sunday labour in the Post-office. Lord GEORGE MANNERS presented a petition from a place in RutlandAire against the Copyhold En franchisernents Bill. Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from a congrega tion of Dissenters is Nortbamptonahiro praying for the abolition of ehurel-ratea. _ _ • Llri ASHLEY presented a petition from a place in Lancashire in favour of th© Ten Hours Bill. • Mr. W. • J. FOX presented petitions from Oldham praying for the abolition of church-;ates and in favour of the Education Bill, _ _ _ Sir J. DUCIOVOiITEI presented a petition from }xeter, signed by 1,700 persons, praying for the cessa tion of Suuriay labour in the Post-affiee. _ _ Mr. G. THOMPSON presented a petition from a Dissenting congregation in Bethnal-green praying for the abolition of church-rates; also a pAation from ope ratives in Dewsbury in favour of ti Ten Hours Bill; and a petition from Glasgow praying for the abolition of capital punishments. Mr. FOR ES prelented a retition from Bale, pray in; that the Bill introduced into the House by th e Hon. Member for that county, for legalizing marriage with a de3eased wife's sister, may not pass into a lam. Mr. DIVETT presented a petition fr , m Exeter com plaining of the present mode of licensing public-houses 111 that town. Mr. COWAN presentel a petition from Edinburgh, against the Public health (Scotland) Bill. Lard R. GROSVENOR, presented several petitions from factary operatives in York, Leeds, and other places, in favour of the Ten Hours' Bin; also petitions from Fulham and Chiswick against Sunday labour io the Post sane ; also a petition from the Metropolitan Sanitary Association praying for a repeal of the window -tax; and a petition from Spitalfields against the taxation Clause in the Secular E.lncation Bill. • Sir GEORGE GREY pre ent..d a petition from the borough of Morpeth, Northumberland, praying for •the abolition of Sunday hiringi in that town during harvest. Mr. STAFFORD presente I a petition from Caxtm. in Northo.mptons'aire, against Sunday labour in the Post office. PARLIAMENTARY OATHS. Mr. PAGE WOOD gave notice that on Monday be should ask the First Lord of the Treasury whqhfrr it was his intention to introduce any Bill during this sea- Mon with reference to the oaths taken by Members of Parliament. AUSTRALIAN COLONIES BILL. Mr. ROEBUCK gava notice that on bringing up of the report of this Bill he should move to extend the principles of the Australian constitution, so as to enable the colonies of British North America to establish a federative Assembly. _ ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Mr. HAYTER moved that the "louse units rising do adjourn until Monday next. WOODS AND FORESTS. Lord DUNCAN said, as it appeared from what trans pired last night in the 1.101.15 e. the sooner they had a re sponsible Minister for the Board of Works the better, he would ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Go vernment, whether it was his intention to proceed with the Woods and Forests Bill on Monday Lott, the day on which it stood on the orders of the House? Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to sly he could not promise whether the Bill would he brought on on that day. COLONIAL ASSURANCE COMPANY. Mr. ROEBUCK directed the attention of the Go vernment to a Bill now before the House for incorpo rating a C ilonial Assurance Company, which he hoped the Government would look into with the view of seeing whether it would interfere with the provisions of the 'Australian Colonies Bill. OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITIES. • Lord J. RUSSELL rose to explain a statement which he (Lord J. Russell) had made to the Rouse respecting the lectures given by the professors of modern history at Oxford and Cambridge, but was very indis tinctly heard. Ho was understood to say that ho was wrong in supposing that Sir James Stephen, the professor at Cambridge, was restricted to giving one lecture a week. It appeared, however, from his own statement, that ho could not give more than 25 lectures to the students, which on the average would be one a week for the academical year. Mr. GOULBURN observed that what he said the other evening in the House was that some professors gave three lectures a week, but that they were not com pelled to give more than one. KING'S-ROAD, CHELSEA. Sir J. PAKINGTON gave notice, that on going into Committee of Supply, he should puts question to the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General on the subject of the King's-road, Chelsea. DISTRESSED UNIONS ADVANCES AND RE PAYMENTS OF ADVANCES (IRELAND) BILL. On the question for going into Committee on the Bill, Col. SIB rHORP rose to move that the Bill be com mitted that day six months. If he thought the grant would benefit Ireland he would not object to it, nor would he refuse to support any measure that was calculat©d to improve the condition of that part of the cpuntry; but the fact wag, this grant teas proposed for nothing more nor lees than to cover the delinquencies and the mis government of Ministers in the sister Itingdom.—(A laugh.) When be was at school ha was taught to believe that two and two made four—(A laugh)—and that two taken from four left two remaining—(A laugh) —but the returns which had been laid upon the table on the subject of these advances to Ireland did not appear to go upon that rule.—(A laugh.) The amount of loans and grants made during this past ten years— the return did not refer to what had been lent before —amounted to no less than 1,227,402/. 13s. 2d., t h e l oans to 8.751,2251. 17s. Bd., o f w hi c h 322,1371. Is. 4d. had been repaid, leaving 5,519,804'. ICs. 4d.— au awful sum —still due, and yet in the face of this it was proposed to advance an additional 300,000/. N ow before this grant was agreed to the House and the public had a r i g ht id k now what chance there was of gettin g it b ac k. H e had lent money hiniself' a . n d in some instances he never got it back again. (Al a---- ~2h I however, not such a fool ; he never lent m one y now ." He was now, wile he took good care to l et without good sec ur ity, paid hi m b ac k the man hate no more w h o had never again. —(A laugh.) was Now that precisely the tale they ought to go upon here. The was the money to be collected andqtLeamLiewnhowmas,wahe";?t to be collected. Mr. HERBERT said, when statements were variance and asse rtions hazarded in that House so tota l ly with the facts, be thought it the duty of some Irish re ber to take the first o pp ort u n ity of making a few obs in er - - vations on Irish loans and finances. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had expressed a certain amount of impa tience at Hon. Members entering into the whole question of Ireland, when particular measures were brought be fore the House, and to a certain extent he agreed with him, but when unfounded statements were made by persons who were unacquainted with the social condition of that country. be though it right that they should be contradicted. It had boon imierted loudly that an Irish loan was the same as an Irish grant. But what was the nature of an Irish loan? He held in his hand a return which bad been moved for by the Hon. Member for Glasgow (Mr. Macgregor), and which showed in a very distinct and compreheisive manner the financial posi tionss regarded thigeountry. It appeared from t'east docu ment that from th e year 181 7, w h en the English and Irish Exch equers were conso lid a t e d to 1845, the total bans advanced to Ireland amoun t e d t o 11,326,5961.; and of that sum as much as 8,483 000/ had been repaid. He would not discuss could the poll but there ' ' 'cy of those loans, be no doubt that they would be of great advantage to this country. He left out the loans duringthe last th ree y ears of the famine, because th ey stood on remarks a different p r i nc iple, and he should have a f ew rema to make ab ou t th em by and by. He was quit e ready to admit th a t man y o f these loans had bee n devoted toepecul a ti ons w h ich had not succeeded, b u t s till h e felt he should be able to con vince the House of the injustice of the charge that an Irish loan was no better than an Irish yr,2.843,000/. of the 11,320,0001. there was now grant.onl Well, then, out misfortune due. And, and part of even that balance was advancesi.ortune of the unpaid, notwithstanding the unparalleled country, she had actually repaid very period of the famine. In 1846 she rep a id during the in` 1847; 514,0001.; and in 1848, 357,00 37° '"TI•; toal of 1,241,000 L repaid during the contidilaalakin- a famine. Sir John Burgoyne stated in hie evidencetre of the the Government had gained considerable sums of money th at by those loans to Ireland.—M ..-'ar, hear.) It might sail tha was an Irish qetemont, but it time's" t it he That gentleman had conclusively proved the!, Le r n u e e t , profit to the Government on those transactions with THE SUN, Ireland was no less a sum than 69,9861. Besides a great part of those loans were not yet due, and therefore no complaint could reasonably be made about the non-payment of that part of them. The loans, too, were made on a totally different prin ciple from any other. They were forced on Ireland in spite of the remonstrances of every man of sense in the country, and they had been spent with the greatest prodigality in the first instance. It had been stated that England had been taxed to sup port the Irish poor, a statement which had bean cheered in that House ; why the English Exchequer was quite as much Irish as English since the framing of that Union which, it must be remembered, was an union not sought for by Ireland, but obtained by England at the expense of much bribery and corruption. Having united the two Exchequers, the English Legislature had no right to turn round and talk of an Irish loan from an English Exchequer. He thought there was no foundation for the aspersion of an Irish loan being thrown in the teeth of Irish Mem bers. There was only one other thing which he wished to mention, and that was that some persons had declared that some districts were in too far distressed a condition ever to repay the advances which were to be made, and he appealed to the House whether it would be deterred by a consideration like this, when they had just voted 1,000,0001. for the support of a scheme the good effects of which bad never yet been manifest, from sanctioning this paltry loan to a country which it had always from the first treated with injustice. Mr. F. FRENCH supported the motion for going into Committee, and said that the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln did not, he thought, understand the precise nature of the Bill. The object of making the proposed advances was to repay the wasteful and extravagant ex penditnra which had been caused by officers appointed by the Government themselves in the management of the affairs of the Irish Unions; and he maintained, upon the best authority, that it the contractors had chosen to proceed against the Government they would have ob tained verdicts to the amount of 270,000/. The Hon. Gentleman then read a list of unions, where a huge in crease of debts had been occasioned under the adminis tration of the vice-guardians; amongst them were the unions of Listowel and Galway, in the former of which the debts had been augmentel from 5,4001. to 12,0001., and in the latter from 7.0001. to 12,000/. Mr. R. FOX defended the poor-law guardians and unions from the imputation of unwillingness t repay. With respect to the Bill before the House it had his cor dial assent, and instead of seeking to defeat it by adverse amendments it would be far better to forego all angry reminiscences of the past, and address themselves, like men of business, to the circumstances of the present end the future. There was one point to which attention could not be too carefully directed, viz., the manner in which the funds should be administered. He should not now ester into eny details, as be should have other op portunities of referring to the management of the Board of Works and the operation of the poor-law. Mr. P. SCROPE said that the Hon. Member for Ile s common (Mr. French) hal thought fit to enter into a defence o the poor-law guardians; but there had been no instsnce of guardians being superseded by vice-guar dians, except where there had been great roismausge meat, neglect, and cruelty towards the -poor. With respect to the distressed unions, the principle on which their poor should have received the extraneous relief that had become necessary was, the supply of reproduc tive employeseet to Vie able-baited poor, so as to make those unions self-supportin g within as short a ti me as possible. But instead at that a system of eleemosynary relict had been adopted, which was alike ruinous to the resources of the union and demoralising to the poor. In the two years ending September, 1849, there had. been expended in 11 unions in the counties Clare, Mayo, and Galway, a sum of 725,000/. in poor relief; and of that amount the unions themselves contributed only 250,3781., the remainder , nearly amounting to 500,0001., having to be furnished by the tax payees of England tied the con tributo:s to the rate-in-aid in Ireland. Again, in tee Limerick union, in the half-year ending September, 1849, there had been 61,0001. expended in supporting 1? ~000 paupers, of whose more than three-fourths, or 9,338 were able-bodiel; and to show the system of mis management that was pursued in that union—how little care was given to employing all this able-bodied labouring power in a reproductive manner upon the land, he might mention that on the day he visited the workhouse ho found that all those able-bodied paupers had been sent to bed, though it was then only Six o'clock on a fine summer evening.—(Cries of "Divide, divide.") The employment he should recommend was such as would improve the laud—(Divide, divide)-- arterial drainage. —(Divide, divide,) The Honourable Gentleman, still persisting in his endeavours to obtain a hearine, notwithstanding the impatience of the House, was again and again met with the steady continuous cry .6 Divide, divide." At last, during a pause, he said , he only wished to impress on the House the necessity of looking for the future to a better mode of expendi ture. The Hon. Gentleman then resumed his seat amidst ebeera. • Mr. MONSELL observed, in reference to the Limerick union, that the only day ou which the Honourable Gee- dem= who had just sat down had visited the workhouse in that union was a Sunday—(Laughter)—and he thought the House would be able to see whether there was any ground for his strictures on the Limerick guar dians when they found him complaining that they had sent the paupers to bed, instead of employing them in the cultivation of the land, at six o'clock in the evening on a Sunday.—(Cheers and laughter.) Colonel DUNNE observed the impatience of the House, and would, if necessary, move that the House should adjourn.—(Cries of " Adjourn.") He only wished to say that the Government asked money on the present occasion, not on account of the Irish poor law guardians, but on account of the mismanagement of the Government's own officers, who had increased the debts of the unions to a very great extent. The House then divided, when ;here appeared— For the amendment ... ... 12 Against it ... ... 132 Majority... ••• .•• .•• —l2O The amendment was therefore lost, and the House went into Committee. The preamble of the Bill was postponed. On clause 1, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the liabilities of Ireland in Dec., 1848 were 513,0001.• wherea s on th e 31 s t Dece : n'ber last they were 392,0001. The sum of 300,0001. advanced under the Bill would be applied to the discharge of these liabilities, which at tached to about thirty unions. The liabilities might be estimated at 270,0001., as regarded these unions; the re maining 50,000/. would be applicable to the discharge of the liabilities of electoral districts. Mr. A. STAFFORD said it was undeniable that the expenses of these unions had been increased by the de lay in passing the Bill. The Bill was one to place the whole rateable property of Ireland in the hands of Sir Charles Trevelyan, inasmuch as the boards of gnu-- diens, in this instance, were mere cyphers, obliged to act under directions from the Treasury, and having no option. The clause was agreed to. On clause 2, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the whole su . he due from Irela n d un d er t h e Ad vances A ct was e 4,23a,000/. To this the pr es e n t sum o f 300,000/. be 5 m added, would make in all 4,535,000/. due froth Ireland. The clause was aided to the Bill. On claus e 3, Mr. A. STAFFORD said this clause placed the whole of the rateable property of Ireland at mercy of the Treasury. Nothing, in fact, could Bill llt was tela exagge rate th o f p h o ewre Majesty's,rs given underT Treasury. utrhye. or s the perfectly Commi ssioners o s sible by its agency for the Treasury to ruin any proprietor by apportioning the debt due on townlands and by ad. justing the time for its repayment. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sa id the amendment he prop o sed to introd uce to this clau s e was to enable them to lay a r a t e on t h e electoral divi sion, With regard to the power s con f erre d b y the Bill, heaisci not see any other means of dealing with the variety of questions raised in its operation than through their adoption. Nothing short:of thb permission of absolute discretion to the Treasury would be efficacious. After 'a few words from Mr. CLEITENTS and Mr. Colonel DUNNE said he thought there should be no discretion given to the Commissioners of the Treasury, but that a scale should be settled by Parliament. Mr. HAMILTON thought there was no difficulty in fixing by law the amount of apportionment. Major BLACICALL was in favour of a graduated scale for apportionment and repayment, but he was given to understand that it was impossible with the max imum of 40 years settled by law. He thought a rata of 6d. in the pound on every townland its Ireland would be fair and equitable for the country, and profitable for the Treasury. Lord; NAAS said the Bill contained an arbitrul, power as regarded the Treasury- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQTI T ;;R would h b a e v d h id n o n e o t hj s e , c e ti t o b n a to fi t i s e uniform s proposition n e fur ; I :: .ae l t r i e c l a a b n l d e : but Major BLACKALL wa P e latisfied with the Right Hon. Gentlemen's e ‘ Mr. CLEMENT'S x Pre4s ; :on of opinion in favour of the unions, under ttle Bill, P out to thesmaid that the Clare and Limerick wc:T r ld have C l full measure of time meted as it was well k e g othc anions sr were e on a s s m of uc l h rel d a i n s d . would heave a lesser times Limericol:sadnd Clare. tressed as thoet Iti ea l b L ly T a t n )N d apercouprateels was not quite equitable, with cl the view of,.appore tio M ni r n . el li r A at to 1)1ty, to make an addition tolth4le,srse.-each union Tin Viscount BERNARD sa id the power of d e t erm i ning the proper a op v e a r p t r k ep ay or b t e ion tr t ate h fe u rr n e i d on twoasthteo might with most ep d missioners. The ben e fit o f such an arran gement eer-lew Corn_ be to let Unions, as well as individual k would amount of their liability, and when s, now the ex act it would have to be discharged. Colonel DUNNE did not think the words of the clause were as clear as they might be. Lord NAAS wished some words inserted t o limit the power of the Commissioners. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said all parties were agreed as to what was intended by the clause. He had no objection, however, to insert any words that would make the meaning more clear. Mr. HAMILTON having furnished hi 3 explanatory addition, it was inserted in the clause. Mr. CLEMENTS proposed that certain words be omitted, and to insert the words " forty years." The gallery was cleared for a division. On our re-admission .the amendment was still under debate, . . , . Lord J. RUSSELL said the Bill was intended as a relief to Ireland, and he did not think it was fair on the Port of some Hon. Members to meet it in such a spirit as had been evinced. Arr. STAFFORD thought the Noble Lord was hardly justified in his reproach, considering the division which had just taken place. LONDON, SATURDAY Major BLACKALL could not agree to the amend ment. After a few words from Colonal DUNNE, Mr. O'FLAHERTY said the Bill had been received with great favour in the west of Ireland. He thouht it would be advisable for Hon. Members who did not represent those unions which were most distressed, not to exact as much as in the cases of really distressed unions. Mr. SCULLY thought the time ought to be extended in proportion to the necessities of the union. Mr. ROCHE hoped the Government would reconsider the proposition of the Hon. Member for Leitrim. It was originally understood that the time fixed for re payment was to be forty years. and the moral effect of the measure would be greatly diminished when it was seen that the matter was left iu the discretion of the Treasury. He had the greatest confidence in tho in tentions of the present Government, but it would be scarcely prudent to reckon on their holding office for that period. The Committee divided, when there appeared— For the amendment ... 31 Against it... ... 85 Majority ... —54 Clause 3 was then agreed to, as were clauses 4,5, and 6. On clause 7, Mr. MONSELL wished to know how soon the work houses would be commenced as the want of them would very much impair the good effect arising from dividing the unions? Mr. STAFFORD, in reference to the division of nniong, begged to remind the Government of the repeated and strong remonstrances which had come from Limerick against the alteration of the territorial distribution; and hoped they would leave that union with its ancient Mr. HERBERT expressed a similar hope with refer ence to the union of Kerry. Mr. FRENCH thought the alteration of territorial divisions most advantageous to 'lreland; but he wished to point out ono hardship which had been inflicted on some townisuds, which had been transferred from one electoral division to another. The result of which was, that they hsl.to pay the assessments of both. He knew an instance in which a townland had beau subjected to a rate of 3s. struck just before the change, and it was also liable to a rate of 4s. struck just after its incorporation with the new electoral division. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed that nothing was more essential than to erect work houses in those unions. All he could' ay was that last year the Government provichd as much money as they were told by the Poor-law Commissioners would be re quitel till the 31st March. He Was not able to give more &A.:fled information, but would make inquiries into the matter. With reference to the circumstance mentioned by the 'lon. Member who had just spoken, it might be a hardship, but it did not follow that it was an injustice; for the rate made by the district from which the townland in question was sera-ated was no doubt made to defray past expenditure, of which the tosinla.nd bad had the benefit. • The clause was then agreed to. The Bill passed through Committee, and was ordorel to be reported. ROAD, EATON-SQUARE. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Sir J. PAKINGTON said he was enabled,. by the kindness of the Hon. Membh for Glasgow, who had waived his right to precedence, to put the question to the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General of which he had given him notice, with regard to the differences that had arisen between the trustees of the Grosvenor-place district and the Marquis of Westminster, as to the repair (f the highway kneeu by the name of the King's-road. It wag well known by many that the stseie of that road had become an intolerable nuisance to those who resided in that part of Lontlon.—(Hear, hear.) He did not come forward as one of the trust( e e He put the ques tion as a ratepayer, and he believed he spoke the senti ments of all bis fellow-ratepayers when he said that he considered himself directly aggrieved in his prop er ty by the Marquis of Westminster. Ho was glad to see the Noble Earl the Member for Chester in his place. He was supported in his view by high legal authorities. The origin of this question Mr. ANS I'EY rose to order. In acquiescing, to gether with tee Hoe. Member for G'aagow, in giving precedence to the Hon. Baronet, ho understood his in tention to be to confine himself strictly to the question which he was desirous to put. The Hon. Baronet was now, however, going into a long statement, which would give the Noble Earl to whom he had alluded, and others, the right to reply, and the result would be a debate which would probably shut out the lion. Member for Glasgow, and would most certainly exclude him (Mr. Anstey).—(A laugh.) The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member would not be excluded. • Mr. ANS TEY—There will be no time.—(Laughter.) The SPEAKER—The Hon. Baronet has a right to speak on the question that I leave the chair. Sir J. PAKINGTON continued—The origin of this dispute was an agreement entered into in 1820 between the Marquis of Westminster and the Crown, by which an exchange was made of the then existing King's-road for that large thoroughfare, now known by the same name, which passed through Eaton-square. All knew the great advantages which the Marquis of Westminster had derivei from that change, for the north side of Eaton-square, one of the handsomest rows of private mautions in this or any other metropolis, was built upon the site of the old King's-road.— (Hear.) The condition of the exchange was an undertaking by the Marquis of Westminster for himself and his heirs to complete this line of road, and maintain it for ever thereafter fir • the use of the King and his heirs and successors, and for the use of the said Marquis his heirs and successors and all other his Majesty's subjects, reserving to his Majesty the right to place a bar to preserve the privacy of the road, but to keep the road in repair fur ever, for the use of all his Majesty's subjects. Subsequently, at the instance of the Marquis of Westminster, an Act of Parliament was passed transferring the manage ment of the roads of the district to certain trustees. He now came to a part of the transaction to which he knew considerable importance was attached by some. In 1830 the Crown abandoned this as a private road, and the trustees of the Grosvenor place district, in perfect ignorance of any covenant between the Marquis and - the , Grown, comeaeneeti tapering the road, and continued to do se for about three years. At the end of that time the existence of the covenant was discovered, and a negotiation took place with Lord Westminster, the result of which was that the Marquis, after having investigated the circumstentiea thb ease, made an arrangement with the trustees, by which he undertook to pay OA a year fir the repair of the road, which ho continued to pay till his death in 1844. After his death the trustees continued to repair the road, pre suming, of course, that they were to receive the 1.60 L annually. After the lapse of sale time the present Marquis refused to continue the tittyment, and in con sequence of his refusal the tettstees thought it necessary to take a legal opinion, and the case was submitted to eminent treethsel, Mr. Watson and Mr. Hayes, and their epinion was that the Marquis of West minster was liable to rhpair the road by virtue of his covenant, and that his" liability:was hot affected by local Acts ) • nor by what took place in 1830. After this opinion the trustees would not have been justified in expending the money of the ratepayers without an attempt to enforce the obligatioit efeatbd by the deed of 1820, and thee theitehe thist the leave of the Crown would be grantitd Io bring an action. After this opinion the teeetete proceeded to lay the same case bee fore two ether most eminent counsel, both Of *hod! he rejoiced to see' in the House. The counsel welt the Ron. Attorney and- Solicitor-Oeneql, and he Begged to recall the anention of the littet ant! Loarnel Attorney. General to his wen debt b. The ATTOAN2Y-GENERAL; —I am aware of it. ' Sir 4, PAKINGTON—The Hon. and Lett-nett Afton any-General wad, prima /ode, the patish Oat botind to repair the road, but the Marquis was L ,alSo ijable to the Crown upon his covenant tb Wiktkt tt6 `664 . tiant could only be enforced by Tht COMIIIiS9I9II Of Woods and Forests, and thct the trustees ought to apply to the Commissioners of Woods and Forests; but their an swer was that they had nothing to d Pith the matter; that the b arga i n was between the At aripia of West . - minster and the Cro*h, and that permission to tete must be granted by the AttoretereGeneetels tad not by them. The trustees agait Go tne Attorney-Ge neral;l but in 'answer the tot Hon. and Learned Gen temae steted thee tie had considered the pirctphs i takes stated il l the memorial; thet he has! detlinea to allow ti ta it a i evidently w g leantldiedvil jest referred benefit from the alto, otthe read, 'end meet Pr the benefit of the public tit large. Ats liele s ed the attention of the nto e it e tli n et s i t i i n a h l o s t eti;:detnetioe t t te o hr h ee e : i: used; t ; h a: d o t r it o e iv t eezilZgif thethat pu th bl e i ca t l covenantlarge, was bs ca n i o v t , in tended 1 tea . rned Gentlemante to the opinion of the Rig"( How. and as minster ritgil..sttet.L:Aaotia:he M r3luis Of `V a,• was bound to repair thn toad for the ese of her yaje§te. opinion of e .* ^,-,ese at Mil October ) When tut Zhu( opinion that the meeee , e jolts he had given it as his arned Gentleman in 'eel of W est wee honnti repair. In consequence of this crieq , 4!'ttekitistees held a meeting and passed rerairettolis to the effect diet the reasons given by the Attorney-d'eneral were hot dell founded, sod oihre not consistent pith the joint opinion given by himself and th'4 f3thicitor-General. They determined to retie* no application to the Attorney- General for p 4 mission to sue, and applied tt him ad cordiney. The Right Hon. Prkd ttatned Ghatleman, in answer, stated that they Were Mistaken in stiptioSing that there was any ineonsisterrey ,bet,l7c 'dimaion himself and the SolititOrea-ettetat, teat the Mtrquis of Westminster was Ilitbie to repair, and his own refusal to enforce the *ovenant. The Right Hon. and taiined Gentleman stated that between tete ziu3tion whether there was a legal liability MA the prop sty df eefOrCing it there w as - a sna k e d distlitetfor. Hq theiliht there was that its this assertion *been elearly called fur a public explanation free lite night Hon., and Learned q bl uesli a o lid n as t a o r Geonntleman. 1:n his opinion, it Vvas . ticSt foe the Ricilit Learned ti etse it n.t r le ie m ty ith of ti t fTini jil th e m o s v e e l n f a t n b e e The ratephytts felt P that the Marquis of Wrs3ltuit33ter had derived groat change. They had ipecuniary advantages,. rcort tiiß Learned Gentleman the hi authority of the Hight iad was liable in Is° that the Marquis of West minsterto repair the road; and surely they were entitled to some voice as t o th e p ro• priety of enforcing that liability. n for his opinion, t h e Rig ht ln stating hi s reasons onourable lkud L earne d Gentleman said that th e trustees of the Grosveno r dis trict had obtained an Act of Parliament on the subject. The Act in qu est i on had net been obtained by th teee, but by the M estsr himself f arquis. o f Weatmi e "'us" e l benefit of his own estate. The opinion of th e si g h ; Hon. and Lear ne d Gentleman was, therefore, erroneous in matter of f ac t. T he Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in the conclusion of his answer, again re fated permission to the ratepayers to decide the motile of the case in a court of law. In consequence of these repeated refusals of the Right .Hon. and Laftrnadi tleman the trustees took the opinion of a gentleman eminent in his profession, Mr. Rolt, Queen's counsel. •Mr. Rolt, in his opinion, stated that there was no appeal to any legal tribunal from the decision of the Attorney- General refusing the use of his name to sue the Marquis of Westminster. Mr. Rolt proceeded to say, that though the legal remedy was doubtful, the advisers of the Crown would do an act of injustice to the ratepayers either by attempting to release *e covenant or by refusing to sue on it. He had no hesitation in subscribing to that opinion. In.conolueion, Mr. Bolt advised the trustees to lay the whole matter again before the Attorney- General, and staled, that if the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman still declined to permit the suit, the only coarse for the trustees to take would be to appeal to the Government or the Legislature for assistance. A deputation proposed to wait on the Noble Lord, the Prime Minister, on the subject; but he declined to re ceive them, as he considere I a point of law to be at issue. As a rate-payer, he now acted on the second suggestion of Mr. Rolt, and made his appeal to the Le gislature. He would more especially make his appe it to the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in the earnest hope that he would re-consider his decision, and not persevere in refusing those parties to go into n court of law. He had been informed that the Marquis of Westminster himself was most anxious that this matter should be deaidol by a court of law. He did not wish to detain the House, but there were one or two passages. —(Cries of " Question," and " Order") — Mr. ANSTEY rose to order—He wished to know whether the argument raised by the Hon. Member— which bad lasted now for half an hour—came within the definition of a statement preliminary to putting a question? The SPEAKER said that, on the question. that the Speaker leave the chair, it was competent for any Mem ber to bring forward a question of grievance. The clues. tion before the Houle was, that he should new leave the chair. The Hon. Baronet was speaking to that question, and it would be improper in him to interfere. Mr. ANSTEY wished to know whether, twine given notice of an aTendment on the question that the Speaker leave the chair previous to Committee of Supply, he was not entitled to bring on his amendment, inasmuch as the lion. Member for GleTow, whose notice of amendnaent stood before his, had given way. TheSPEAKER said if the Hon. Baronet had given nctide that he would conclude with a motion, the Hor. Member would have been entitled to precedence, bat he had merely intimated his intention to put a question. Sir J. PAKINGTON said he hoped it would be some consolation to the Hon. Member for Youghal to know that he was nearly done. He it as about to say, that in consequence of the opinion of Mr. Rolt a conference was held with the Bight Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Attorney-General on the subject, at which the Bight Hon. and Learned Gentleman admitted that on his tilt rested the whole respon'ibility, and that he had to look to all the circumstances of the case.—(Cries of "Ques tion.") He complained that the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman had not looked to all the circumstances of the case.—(Renewed cries of "Question.") Ho was sorry to detain the House at such length.—(hear.) He did not, how. ever, think that the House had any right to complain of his bringing forward a question involving the rights of a very large portion of the inhabitants of the metropolis. In the abstract of the proceedines which he held in his hand there was an expression used in reference to the conduct of the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, which he would not repeat—which he re gretted bad been used, and to which ha would not subscribe. He should appeal to the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, as a constitutional statesman, and ask him , whcber it was right that any authority in this i ceuntry should interfere to debar any portion of her Majesty's eubjects from ap pealing to a court of law to decide the merits of any question of grievance they might have.— (Hcas, hear.) All that the ratepayers in this case asked was permission to goo a court of law'. The Attorney-General, avail ing himself of a technicality, said they should not be allowed to do so. Ho was at a loss to know whet answer the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman could give.—(Cries of " Question,") lie was not disposed to detain the House longer than he could help, but if the Hon. Member for Youghal resorted to thoseuncourteous interruptions he should certainly go on to a much greater length.—(Loud cries of "Oh.") The indict ment preferred against the trustees was of an extraor dinary nature, and would not. it was believed, raise the question at issue.—(Cries of" Question " renewed.) He etiould conclude by asking the Right Bon. and Learned Gentleman to give some explanation of the grounds upon which he felt himself justified in debarring the ratepayers from trying the merits of the question i n a court of law, and to state whether he intended to parse-. vere in refusing them permission to sue. The ATTORNEY GENERAL felt it would be some what inconvenient for him to enter into any genera'. statement of the grounds of his decision, particularly as an indictment was now pending against the trustees f..)r non-repair of the road. He should, however, partly answer the qeestion of the Right Hon. Baronet. He did not complalu that the Hon. Baronet had not put on the paper of to-day the question he intended to put. The Hon. Baronet had told him of his intention to put th e question; but not having put it on the votes, probably some Member, who might have wished to make a state ment on the subject, had been prevented doing so. Of that, however, ha made no complaint. Sir. J. PAKINGTON did not think the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman wished to misrepresent what he had done. He had put a question on the paper Le fore the holidays, and he had now put the same question of which he had given notice. Last night he gave public, notice that be intended to put the question to-day on the order for CommittPe of supply, and he had also last night informed the Right Hon. and Learned Gen tleman, of his intention. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he made no complaint of the course taken by the Hon. Baronet in regard to his notice. He perceived that on the Mon day after the holidays the Hon. Baronet gave notice that he would ask him whether he intended to persevere in his refusal to allow the . suit in, question; and last night the Hon. Baronet told him that he would put the question on the order for going into Committee of Sup ply. Of that course he did not complain, but he stated that , be thought some Hon. Members, from the notice not being on the votes of the day, might be in ignorance that the qaestion wis to be brought forward. He was glad to find that the Hon. Baronet did not subscribe to the expression which had been made use of in the pro ceedings with reference to himself. Any one who knew the nature of his connexion with the city of Chester knew that he was not assailable on that point, and those who had made use of the expression, and those who be lieved it, were utterly beneath his contempt. lie quite agreed with the Hon. Barnet th•it the rate payers had a great grievance to complain of. He himself was a ratepayer, and lived but a few doors:from the Honk Baronet. The grievance of which they had to complain were four-fold—(Laughter.) The road was not watered—it was not lighted; and, therefore, was made the receptacle of every improper thing-4A laugh)—it was not cleansed, and was not kept in repair. The eonitnissiohers Were bound to water, light, and cleanse the road; and he could not understand why these three things should not be done merely because it was not kept in repair by the Marquis of Wesminster. The Marquis of Weetininster said that the road having been thrown open to the public It should be repaired in the same manner in which all other similar highways were repaired. With respect to the duty of tee Attorney - General, he would s9y that noconsiderations would ke-p him from performing the official task which would be imposed, on him' but having consulted the highest legal aiithoritice, after having Lea in communication with the Marquis of Westminster, it appeared the most sound opinions were, that no legal proceedings 3110.441 be taken. Mr. GRANVILLE 8 - gIiKELEY asked the Hon. an Lettrteed (4eotletari Wh e t the arts were to do? 'the ATTORNEe. GittfEliAL staid, that, having been unfortunate in giving a professional opinion, he would not hazard an enprofessional one: Lord i tASTIIREAGI4 hoped that his Hone Friend below him would take the sense of the Hotisi,' bet the quAitioti •. to the Crowil: on some future occasion by melting an Address Mr. MARTIN depreSsed his centerrenee with the view taken of he subject by thb AeterneYstlefier c i.l le . drd It. OItOSVENOIe r e ferred to several legal opie St4isb subjects enjoyed, nions to show that the Marquis of Westminster wag not Lerd HAMILTON thotight as there was such a di st that a p t tthat posed at liable aa to e a t le t repair*cshtytheothf thehighest grahte r es d pt a al d ye eg r ra e sl fe oraruuegtdhh authorities, o rtiot eb tkrsity ot opinion among e alleWed the,Polvilege.*bkol .et. o an api;eal to a court or The discussion then dropped, , . • STA,UPS s ll .laLog MACGIIECCiR than moves, pursuanL to notice' that in consideration of the recent changes in the navi gation-laws, and consistently with the teto of the re venue, it wee ,eXpe!lie.tie the tittluejid asenr ttedeet sit)A b!.l6rttq dthdi documents Should aboliihed. Lord 3, MANNER,S.ieconded the. thotinn, CIIANCF , T , T I OIt 6 f the F.3;`CHE4ITEIi slid he stotim give the same answer in the negative to that pro position. Which he had given to a similar o ne a s h ort time shicei Afte r i the re had be en a l rea d y notiB3 of, tie could riot eindortaTie to tiriatzie Airy t i ee ther reduction in duties than whit be had already spe= &died: With respect to the policy of repeali ng th e t a x s o cc a sion, h i e had only to stibeer+e; that he thought it hie duty to aeta C ri e f a r :ics in n, becauseelPre"lng ahy opinion on the s u bj ec t Up on that he felt that . ho ought t o reserve fok.hleaself an uefettered discretion as to the financial poiicv which he should hereafter pursue. Lord J. MANNERS said that the Right Hon. Gen tlettian the emir:teener of the Exchequer had not alleged dud single argeleetint in favour of the continuance of that most objectionable tax: It was a tax which was ob jectionable at all times, but which was peculiarly so at thb present time; when the shipping interest were de prived of the protection they had formerly enjoyed Linder the navigation lame The continuance of the tax was it preeerit not only objectionable but most unjust; and he hoe t he, itoo, Gentleman opposite would press his motion to a division. Mr: Aldermen THONIPSON said that no such duties as thite iVere leiied in the United State', at llarnburgh, portien,,,of the principal 4 ports of the t eewledee, that Continent; and ;h0 reslq was, to the shipowners of this country effected marine insurances hardly deserving of any present lar n aceti vern de n aern s .npvt u ,ple r ie3hr a ,yit; Tee n i am c eshrd e e I s Er doi consideration; but the stamps there to a very large extent. The stamps on charter a tuti oh s snet a Chancellori the. v o emr business cu rshi occasions, os v aso : foi of t t nhauxse:, I3t aoeie:dhh. underwriters. :u i or l et i s _r - . parties were of very trifling amount, and were therefore w o bnsm u ua e t s tt r ah l d ry daetit a f h l o g a l tu a t tsh i h s e ( s lt u r b . je l e i t ual of e, ta ) xa o t p le i n hie fo n r , the e Right lion. Gentleman would have done - mot , - netter if he had considered the plei{;es which he h•el given, cud which he had cot redeemed, at thtr period of the passing cf f h • tete- P eavigetioa-laws. :Previously to the !:VENING, APRIL 27, Ministers whether they would be prepared to relieve the shipping interest from all those burdens which could prevent them from competing on equal terms with foreigners; and to that question he had received an answer in the affirmative. In his opinion the continu ance of those duties would be an act of injustice to which the [louse ought not to give its sanction. Lord J. RUSSELL denied that her Majesty's Ministers had given any pledgo, at the time of the passing of the measure for the repeal of the naviga tion-laws, that they would abolish those duties. Neither his Right Honourable Friend the Chancellor, nor his Right Honourable Friend the President of the Board of Trade had given any sueli assurance. The 'Hon. Gentle man the Member for Montrose was, therefore, mistaken upon that point;-and he should further observe that he should have thought the Hon. Gentleman would have wished to see the navigation-laws repealed without any condition. The qtrstion then at issue was not whether the tax in question was in itself desirable. He did not mean to contend that it was so; but he thought that they ought to continue it as a portion of that financial arrangement by which the credit of the country was ,to be maintained. Mr. DUNCAN said that he had vote l for a repeal of the navigation-laws on condition that after that repeal all unnecessary restrictions on the shipping interest, such as the duties then under their consideration, should be removed. Mr. HENLEY said he only regretted that Hon. Gentlemen opposite had not hnld their votes on the navigation-laws until they shoUld have found that all the restrictions on the shipping interest of which they dis• approved had been repealed.—(Hear, hear.) In his opinion they ought not t) have thrown their constituents overboard as they had done. He agreed with the Noble Lord below him (Lord' Manners) that the Government had made out no case f.,r a continuance of that tax. The House then divided, when there appeared— For Mr. Ma?.Gregor's motion ... 89 Against it ... ... 156 Majority against the motion ... —67 AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. On the question being again put that the Speaker should leave the chair, Mr. DISRAELI rose and said that before the House consented to vote any more money, it ought to be in pos session of the financial statement of the Government fir the year. At present the House was without that in formation. It was true that nearly two months ago Ministers favoured the House with a general view of the finances of the country, and of what they intended to do as regarded the remission of taxation. It had al ways be held to be a matter of great importance that the financial statement of the year should be made as early in the session as possible, in order that, before voting the supplies, Members . might be able to form an opinion as to whether their constituents could bear the burden of the taxes necessary for raising the sup plies. It was theref,re essential that the Thus° should be made aevainted nith the exact financial position of the Government—should know what taxes would pro bably be repealed, before they could firm au opinion as to the possibility of meeting the exigency of the occasion. A Government always looked upon it as a ulster of great self-gratulation and just pride to be able to make a financial statement at an early period of the session. To do the Government justice, it must be admitted that they had taken an early opportunity of making their Cira,acial statement to the House this session; but, unfor tunately, the budget. which was opened nearly two months ago, was not yet finished.—(Hear, and laughter ) It was not impossible that the House might find itself in the same position as in that remarkable year 1848, when the Government began their financial statement on the 17th of February, and did not bring it to a close until the 25th of August.—(Cheers and laughter.) There were indications that the Government was about to pur sue a similar career this session. In 1848 Ministers got entangled in the course of their financial statement with the sugar duties. They proceeded with a new Sugar Bill, which was not successful. They produced a simi lar one, which met a similar unhappy fate. A third was produced. All theta) Bills were accompanied with a schedule, such as those criticised so successfully by the House, hat Ministers had found themselves hitherto in the same position as in 1848. Nearly two months had elapsed, and though the Government cam . menced the session with the exposition of their views with respect to the finance of the country —views, of course, matured, well-digested, and the contequence.of many counsels—it was now the 26th of April, and no Member had a clear idea of what were the ohjects and what would be the effect of the policy of the Government es to finance.—(Hear, hear.) It was a matter of great importance, espcially after the late division, that the Government should fairly tell the Home whether they intend to proceed, be did not say with their- measurse respecting stamps, for that was given up entirely, but whether they intended to introduce a new measure. All that had happened hitherto wee the refusal of an excise duty. No one could pretend that that that was the budget of the Government. All that recommended it was, that it repealed an excise duty and not a customs duty—rectguizing a salutary principle. There was a . certain indulgence which was always to be exhibited towards the finance of a Whig Ministry.—(A. laugh.) The Government could not be exptcead to excel ' in every branch. The foreign policy of the Government, by its peremptory decrees, maintained the dignity of the country, and by numerous blockades vindi cated the supremacy of the seas.— (Hear, hear.) The Colonial-office by its ingenuity in manufacturing consti tutions, upheld the well-earned reputation of this coun try for being foremost in promoting liberal institutions. And the Government had always in their pigeon-holes some scheme or other which would inevitably render Ireland rich and England content. These were circum stances which compensated for an occasional deficit, a'id sometimes for a proposition to double the income-tax. The finance of the Government was a subject which ought always to be treated with indulgence. But there was a limit even to Parliamentary patience; and, as two months had elapsed since the exposition of the Govern ment, and as there was no prospect of their ideas being fulfilled, it would be indiscreet in the House to vote the public money without giving them an opportunity of telling clearly what were their intentions.—(Hear.) On his side of the House they were particularly interested. He assumed (it was not a monstrous assumption) that no more would be heard of the Stamp Act, because the case of that Act was a much more aggravated case of Minis terial incompetence than that of the sugar duties; and if three failures in the Sugar Bills brought an end of the budget on the 25,h of August, it followed that four failures in the Stamp Act already amounted almost to a certainty that the original scheme of the Government, or any one similar to it, could no longer be contemplated as a political probability.—(Hear, hear.) What was the principle of the budget? More embarrassed with a surplus than ever they had been with a deficiency— (Hear, hear) —her Majesty's Ministers resolved to re cognise the claims of a great interest which was suffering and which, from a peculiar combination of circumstances, was universally recognised as the only interest suffering. —(Hcer, hear.) Relief, to the agricultural interest was a voluntary offer on the part of her Majesty's Ministers. A certain sum was allotted—a particular amount appro priated to be given immediately and distinctly to the re lief of that interest. They came forward to remind him of his promise with no ill grace, because in the interval they had made more than one attempt to relieve interests which to . their astonishment they found were also suffering—(Hear, hear)—without reference to'their own prior claims. and perfectly ready to relin quish those claims in favour of their suffering fellow; subjects—(Hear, bear.) Those attempts had not succeeded; one, within the last five minutes, had failed, and now, when Ministers asked them to form thmselves into Committee of Supply and vote public money, he wanted some distinct explanation of the inten tions of Government and of the means in order to secure that relief for the suffering interest of agriculture which had been so long and so voluntarily promised.—(Hear.) Had the circumstances which prompted Ministers to come forward at the end of February and announce that a considerable portion of their surplus was ready, as it ought to be, for the relief of that interest, ceased to ope rate? Had the circumstances which had occurred since in regard to that interest rendered their exigencies less -se were they of a nature which could justify Mk severe, •-- their opinion on the distress of the nisters in changib b '"ear, hear.) 'There was an agriettitifffti fttteeest?—v.... --e bench—it had often opinion prtivellent 611 It 9 l'rettestn e • would meet with beed idtinittted-zthat ariet hedter ti e 7 . teing cloud more ineeffiti cdtintenmkerli al , td.thriti the , p*..- which lowerel over it:l6 hfpatif e fittl i ds of Prirgiovi have vanished. Was it so? T.11614' Ifni% plenty of wit-• nesses in that House who could give teafiridurty: Iltey er ttild ea high authority—that of members of We 010 , venni:tent in atiottivr place—that the unprecedented ded preisiod of agriviiiide No's° from exceptional causes— (flitierefieto--:hat jet vthat fespeet was it to be under stood that so 4 r4Nert efete exceptional ? Ho thought it' was to obtain low prices Mitt thl changed their iegis7 lation.—(Hear, hear.) He could tot elgtee that the iiitsqtetetaaces were exceptional. It was not let the credit df the p!' s tint or of the late Government to beliete that Melte ditctintisterldes were exceptional. If wheat veeistf sating at 81st a quarter, he could not understand the legid v4lieft vYo'uld bake a free-trader say the circum stances were exceptionaTt bass when wheat was selling, at 355. the quarter, instead of denouncing the eircum mattes as exceptional, those who had supported free triad °fight to„,say the effect was most leg i t imate.— (Hear, hear: ) By &them acts, of which the House were avVare-by logidal dedgettot from the new philosophy — must regard this effect as one of a permanent cha racter; dug; if it were so; it was of still more import ance that Minisiefd :.!Yotild state what they intended to do for the relief of the rigliesfiturel interest. Assum ing their legislation on atataps t be deficient, he should ask, if relief to that interesi wereneeT sary two months ago, whether it was not aura ,7 still more urgent now ? and on an occasion like the preseni, when they were asked as a matter of course to go into Committee of Supply, and vote away taxes wrung from a suffering community , the most unhappy of whom those on his 'side of the House represented---distress acknow ledged by lion. Gentlemen opposite, who were aletays boasting of their own prosperity—(Hear, bear)—he thought it his duty to say that the time had gone by whee l se a matter of course; the Government conk; have a Committee of etirietti--(year, hear.) While then' financial, statement was isiligefA'Fbll If2tiki net "Y die' . gr0,?1 , 4117 ititeifinf; beC4nse harsh ' phi4d vNtllti not a- the e'6rfettlinr,i4s:nand when a part 0: t m h e e u s s - ch ' e - ;,‘;s , relief from taf.eo4 fo,r,sUfrerin c ,&,portions 1 ,,,,,;ted the Geoltdit i ttient; before of the community; ha they asked the House to Vote svfq money, 1 .4. atla li e. nctly whether they ietentet_ forward and declare another attempt to complete dh the budget c ording to t a t:do fir the their original scheme, and what they mean h cheers.) relief of the agricultural classes .—( Lo ud Lerd J. ri,vssw,r, thought it was P h e ardly worth whtle-e(totta cries of Hear, hear")—to have . delayed the llons fr9ea proceeding to th? pra . c a tt o c r a m l a b ti a o s n en w es h sa the evening either for the 'sake oet the lion, Geneleman conveyedt. 9 to 'the . 14 11 e u u i s r e ie — s ( i A le laugh)—or for the sake of making those :a__etAlloakritteel the Hop. ',Gentierpsu 111" 1850. formed the House that when they went into Committee of Supply they went, in all probability, fol. the purpose of voting public money, and, as the First Lord of the Admiralty had given notice of his intention' to proceed with the navy estimates, that information was hardly required. In the next place, the Honourable Gentle man mentioned that the usual course was for Ministers very early to bring forward the budget, state what taxes they would remit, and afterwards proceed with supply. That was not the usual course; very far from it. In times of peace it was not a very expedient course; in times of war it would be abshrd and impracticable. The Honourable Gentleman first had given intormation which was superfluous, and known to ail the world. Next he had given information totally incorrect. Ho then went on to make certain comments on our proceedings with respect to the finances far the year. What . the Chan cellor of the Exchequer stated early in the session was sufficiently pleie. He stated, that having his estimate of the receipts and expenditure of the year, there ap peared a surplus of 1,500,000 L—(" Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp, and laughter.) He proposed that a portion of that surplus should be applied to the relief of public burdens, and another portion to the diminution of the debt incurred of late years. Nothing could be more plain than the policy which he proposed to pursue. It was a policy which, on the 15th of March, tlio Go vernment stated they wore pursuing, and one oe' the duties they proposed to remit, viz., a duty of Excise which offered considerable hindrance to the improvemeet of dwellings, had already been re mitted.—(Herr, hear.) Such being the general po• licy of Ministers, he certainly would not accept the invitation to go into details respecting their financial measures, or to state now what course they proposed as to any particular matter. But, as the Hoc. Gentleman had invited them to this general consideration, and had called attention to the policy of Ministers, he (Lord J. Russell) could not help in tarn calling the attention of the House to the policy pursued by the lion. Member for Buckinghamshire, because it wets a policy which was not a tittle re:narkable, and which appeare i to be not a little wavering and inconsistent. The Hon. Gentleman, as the public a ere informed by the journals of the day, propounded before the commencement of the sesiion a great plan of finance of his own—(Hear, hear)—which, whether it were advisable to adopt or not, had one very strong feature its it, and a fature which he thought was very honourable to the Honourable Gentleman, namely, that it was a proposition to maintain the credit of the country very high; to have a very considerable surplus overexpenditure for the purpose of a sinking fund, for keeping the funds high, and enabling all per sons who bad need of borroviug to do so at a very low rate indeed. The Honourable Gentleman's plan fur the purpose might not have agreed with that of those who had thought much on fieance, but at least it had this very creditable feature in it—that it was founded on the basis that the revenue was far to exceed the expenditure of the country.—(Cheers, and a laugh.) Then, on the first night of the session the House was told that the great question was protection ; that the restoration of protection to agriculture was th main object to be at tained, but that that, was not the object of that partieu- Jar night- athe amendment on the Address did not exactly contain that proposition. But no sooner was the amendment to the Address negatived, th in they were told by the Honourable Gentleman that it was quite clear the majority of the House was against pro tection; that there was no need of talking of it again, or of making any motion to restore it.—(Hear.) That was entirely inconsistent with what they had been told on the first night of the session; but, further than that, the Hon. Gentleman having in his position turned Chancellor of the Exchequer during the autumn, chose to propound a great plan by which the revenue was to be increased arid kept very high above the expenditure; land now, for the list month, they had seen that when ever anybody brought forward a motion—(Hear, hear) . —whether it were paper, whether it were masse in surances, or what not, however little it might all ct toe agricultural interest, from whomever it might came, whether from his Right Hon. Friend the Member fur Manchester (Mr. M. Gibson), or any person Who enter tained those strong opinions on free trade, the lion. Gentleman and his friends had been only eager to diminish the revenue of the country below the expenditure. Why, the Honourable Gentleman talked of the Government plan of finance. They were not ashamed of the prin ciple of their plan, which combined some relief to the country with a steady maintaining of surplus, over ex penditure. But a course of policy founded on the prin ciple of voting with any person who had an objection to a particular tax, and who, having studied it, thought it to be more objectionable than any other, and without considering the general state of our finances to vote for anything that would impair the credit of the country, did seem to him, fer a great party, he must say a most singular and extraordinary course—(Cheers)—and not either very - wise or very much calculated to raise them generally in the opinion of the public.—(Renewed cheering.) And that too, as he • had acid, 'without much regard as to what the tax might be, or the purpose of the mover. The mover, perhaps, might be One who said—" If I take away from you this tax, I mean, at the same time, to diminish your expense, be cause I intend to reduce your army or navy by 20,000 men, and thus to dress the balance and make your re ceipts still exceed your expenditure." But the Hon. Gentleman; end those who had voted with him, had no excuse of that kind. Is was contrary to their views to make these great reductions in the expenditure, and therefore they had exposed themselves to the chance of being regpontible far making a great inroad on our fi nances, and leaving them in that state in which the credit of the country could not but be Unpaired both in our own view and the view of all foreign countries.—(Cheers.) Well, some persons said that the notion was that if that were dune, then, the revenue of the country not sufficing for the expenditure, the House of Commons would find itself obliged to re-impose those taxes on pro tection—(Loud cheers from the Opposition, and counter cheers)—those taxes on the admission of corn, on the admission of provisions, on the admission of those various article of general consumption which it had been the policy of different Governments 'and different Houses of Commons of late years to re duce; and, by the cheer which ho had heard—(Renewed cheers, which drowned the end of the sentence.) Well, really it seemed, ho must say, a most wild-goose chase to imagine that because a certain number of gentiemeh bad voted with them for the reduction of the tax on windows or paper, that they would thereby find them selves in a majority in favour of the restoration of pro• tection, and that a majority would be found to restore that which went to enhance the price of food in this country.e-(Deprecatory " No, no!" from the Protection lets, and cheers from other quarters.) He must say that a more visionary expectation never appeared to hetes entered the mind of man.—(Renerved cheers.) Well, if that were their great plan of finance—if the plan 'they had openly revealed was that they would vote for the dimi nution and repeal of any tax with the hope that, texas once reduced, they might get a duty on the import of all articles of consumption, and more especially corn, he must say that a worse plan of finance, a plan based on more shallow views, a plan which tended more to destroy the credit of the country in the first place, and to disturb the peace of the country in the second place, never had been conceived by a party which had number and wealth and station in that House.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman had invited him to this discussion of his plan of fin ince by the observations he had made upon the plan of the Government. The Hon. Gentleman, ho was sorry to see, had so utterly departed from that honourable notion which he had entertained befere Parliament rust, that whatever they did they must keep up the credit of the country and must have a large surplus over expenditure. He thought, without insisoug on his own, particular view, that if the Hon. Gentleman had remained firm to that principle, however he and those who went with him would haste maintained a high reputation in the country, it would have been said, at 1 att . , that their policy was honourable, and that it was a policy which had been followei in the best times .of the history of this country. The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to some thing that was supposed to have passed elsewhere. Well, he (Lord J. Russell) had seen the reports of what passed " elsewhere," and he saw that it was said that the peo ple had begun to ask not only what revision of salaries and reduction of offices there should be, but whe ther it were possible any longer to pay the dividends of the national debt. He doubted whether such questions were really and seriously asked by any portion of the people of this country.—(Hear, bear.) He did not think it wise, at all events, that such notions should be set afloat, especially in high places.—(Cheers.) He be lieved that no such notion would obtain any credence or support amongst the people of England generally; and - •~ought really that it would be far better if Hon. , Ito te- tn opposite, instead of abandoning all their own l' Gellskin t h- -to endeavour to get into a majority by *jot" ' l4 o t rh-,_ *rain of his Right Hon. Friend the I)ll ° 42 ng 111 1 " ' ere would resort to their own po- Member. •iv to the House whether they for Manehesa. Hey, and would state piano, • , 1 or-notowabuarnedooencaisti,own,hoer wa, the t case, th . ough intended to adhere fa rotectiot ther they kept it in reserve , for so.. ers of this whether, as in fact he believed t orotective they did not venture to sa yit of to re t 7 g s a s irti fa4m a conatry, they utterly despaired , ti duty. If that were not so, (An indignant " No," from the PrOt,otten benches, and cheering otherwise.) then let them have .ss direct motion upon the subject. If they did mean to restore protection, why there was a large part of the country that was crying out for it, and saying that as long as free trade lasted every interest must be suffering.—(Hear, hear.) If that were so—if the country was really suffering under that infliction of free trade—if that policy which had been ;inflected since 1842 were utterly mistaken—if the people were really going on the road to ruin in consequence of that policy, he said that it was the duty of those who held that be lief to bring the question fairly before Parliament. At all events, be would say that he should not be afraid of meeting that question; but that he and those who thought with him would be ready to meet it at,any mo raeut.—(Cheers.) He held that at the present time, while the revenue was sufficient to meet their expenses, it shoved, both by duties of Excise and many . other taxes, tha: there was no falling off in the consumption of the great artit:fts which paid duty in this country, _ that there were otter circumstances and reports which and would show, and whial should be stated and produced whenecet that question should b_e this t n f t o ry rw w ar e d re , n t that the great Wass' of the people of in the!t_oym(Lenotwelicabeeergrge.)et comfort s s as they ever bad possess" If lion. Friend the . have thought the information bsse superfluous he could Lord J. MANNERS said, thaotftheisNoble Lord should Atember to Buckinghainms readily understand, ust be unpleasant for the retheaitmAposstetsm, b t l h y a , t p t l , ed g g re e a d t , 1 I i lt , i s o f r o Lo , r t d o to the be p r r t e u m f e o t it t i l d e t e o d f i t f i ing.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord, far from endeavour fini-ncial position of the country, had and impoftal4 itetetet P in this country was still suffer ing to explain the . issue, and given partly most ingeniously agreeable and more se tuc ' proposition which had bocu matte \on fact, but h , e re ra n diverged from -the real question at an elaborate statement fdiinded t . ehin alto very materially on the tif ground ' of fiction, as to a (' at some thria , o: other t e y his Hon. Friend a t e Meinber for Buckinghnoashile. —(Hear, hear.) But when the Nob!,------iegLreeartdsc°qta„t,,aeffef,'ri with what he had truly termed the his' Hon. Friend, he might be reminded 0°110(94 scheme bad been mentioned with the hightst ellhet*Chll even plagiarized by the Right Honourabliat dtb cellor of the Exchequer on the introductioetoeS budget.—(Cheurs.) He was unwilling w Pr u . 1 1 ; .19 0 0 debate, but ho had risen to protest againtt t i c r I to i of several of the assertions of the Nobl e Ler d apt first place, the Noble Lord said that they ha i ce ts +i every gentleman who might have proposed 5 ; w ell tion of taxation, irrespective of the justice of and the expend:tire of the country, and the a e had had—what should he call it?—the e°11(11 hi ° l that his Hon. Friend and .the great bulk at e t ole porters had voted with the Noble Lord the n ' s arell Bath (Lord Duncan) for the repeal of the tr'" ac eetr, The Noble Lord was not correct in that st s „/e 0 et; he asked him now to retract it.—(Cries of n e'res e r The Noble Lord said, that they had voted fl'r,.!' of ''. tion'that might be proposed without thfelaged maintenance of the credit of the country, a" vest s , the vote to which they hai come an hour ago' 000' of money implicated in that vote wa , u nder ea cal ti year, and, let him oak the Noble Lord vit or, present available surplus which he prer se dor ei l e e by way of relief to some interest e' r a :er a (Beer, hear.) Was it net a. sum gt ° !`",lo :i ^ ,,") hie , . that? Upon' whet ground then tha n ` p eitri Lord accuse Gentlemen on that (th e ee ) P cli°;; side of the House of voting fen a 't e lj ero,'iS taxation. without the least regard to them ' - ee rit'''ot t.:'s , public credit ? He maintained that' toe . I ',, a ' w hich he had the honour tb act had never itt lr w ti l entl'a duri.'lg the present session of Parliament ere.o; direet referente to - the maintenance a e p ab!e o o f t o (Ilea-, hear.) If he wanted any justifi cat a l° o o°l ol eso,..rtion tie would find it beetle cooeled in g Fedi that hits Noble Lurti's o wn speech; for he had a d:Mt.-a c e Ih (the Proctectiotnists) were , not without a P°"otase' would supply th e necessary finds for the' t he Ole ( [fear.) But ILA • (Lord J. Manners) assure,' ' I , tt: o e s that the votes wi ich they had given in faroug is° t duction of taxation could be, and were ,f il e ,",toos':l; altogether irrei'peetive of that policy talaL of ! so consideration with regard to the re-initio"" (0 0 - (1';''ei tire Noble Lord ctilled " the taxes on the ' - vt , ';,, t 4 people."—(Hear e hear.) When the Noble beiwo the opportunity. of aecusing them of acting sated for ' and improper manner:, because they ha d tibee ll repeal of taxes, infavour et which nothing..; s cli:or and in favour of which nothing could be s at teat 6 01 ' Noble Lord took the opportunity of making ",,bitte I tion against them in, vindication of the poll f r es :tit (the Protectionists) impugned, and in " g es e fs . tY budget which was rap idly falling in pieces e t", - els : ssc eyes—(Hear, hear)—lie would tell the et" t a es I that if that was his defiance they were- Pe rfe ) °- ,, e tf to leave the question in'his hands.—(Ctle er , a y ,ble il, Colonel SIetTHORP thought that the l' E e -- ef fec's the head of the Government had pursutd ' t e" 10 of that " evil communications had corrtiP' e- a iglit l i ti manner:." However good his intentions r,' a"j been in his heart and good in his ciispes, 4 ,, ( Veo e r ifr had mistaken his policy, although he was tt e ct 'ell his Right Honourable Relative. - With re s e ra4 surplus thee had been talked of, he believeuvietsaii was no surptus at all.—(Laughter.) If the t t o r) Gentleman pre t a debtor and creditor san d of t ''' he would be 9,,s he (Colonel Sibthorp) tt, -- fs Nl ' iii that House, w s lr:se than nothings—(lsa i g was a time when t,:le Noble Lord opposite - se t ' ,' with the agriculture: interest, and when th E' /3 ‘ecl i'„" i ttl of Hassell were farikeee of respectability, ° e t ttet, the farmers. That, however, seemed -to b e e e'Vell now. He (Colonel Sibttiorp) was of an econ°;eolV and be was told that he, ought to be still nO r s el i t P i r i cal; but he wished Honourable Members wl'"alet ' a t him in all those measures which ho brough t r u le s e t consideration.—(Hear, hear.) Dinner tnitt lL ,,,"eog e et good thing, and amusement was a very go t ?' '',o '',s'' way too, but there were other matters c't ' li b, t: i Lance. He begged to risk the Noble Lord '''. 4 ifs' I Deanery of Hereford had - been filled UP , 51' 9' 111 whom, and at what salary? ' , ,'O e a . Lord ,T. RUSSELL replied that the set . "') not filled up. . bs Mr. HUME observed that a novel seee' ', 0 4 1 i pl3ce that evening, which he bad witnesses ' aeisa,' attention. Thera was crimination and rt rya' t° ,o, but he was fortunatsly in - a condition to h,t, ',el f , ! (Laughter.) The Hon. Meniher for Bne s e :; ;Ote r V i called on her Majesty's Government, very t r. 00 ,' dr give reiief to tUe agricultural intereson ontral trout the Opposition.) He (Mr. Hume) b t t cils i the Government the propriety of giving 0 1 1' le i terests, and ho had proposed the honest aa e ltas " 1 ( 0 mode of reducing expenditure, in order tor ea O a t ' 111, 'slue. Hon. Gentlemen opposite - compla ul 'etii ; Government bad not a policy, but he oclide ",o''S they had, and seemed determined to eit'orier namely, that no further reduction in exPet tb e fif e l take place. It was impossible, thereforea w oet ? ( Pi have a surplus; but who was to blame tor e , th, 0 ,,." ‘ r5 .1 Hon. Gentlemen opposite. They came i -Pn when the Government was in ditficultie s.-- at from the Opposition benches.) But he O i e u eli l ll 7 ,l, they had done it. Every Committee who gr ee t [ ' ' into the subject had laid it down that I.slB o Ji o ' only way to obtain relief , was by the, 56 G oi our establishments. He had complained 0 ' kn ish; merit teking five or six millions from the 1 3°- Or o 1 :i people fur the army and navy, and made li t , l .d O no " rf, i " the Houee for a redaction of the number t'llos,,V; ployed; and what was the consequence? d ad P o . r j Gentleman opposite joined the Noble Lot"; 0 ,34 e PI Hume) was left in a miserable minority 0 ' t b?,,, 50. If they wanted relief, they should tak e "tbileite r by which relief could be obtained, and do, t ' s . sP e° f 'co in their own establishments—reduce thei r e e liet i i ' leir when it balanced their income. The Clui n- ,e le,,r' s 7( Exchyquer said that he had no money to g a n ef ' ''' s';'if Honourable Gentlemen might give him' fe„ 13 0 1 0 0 . ,,i purpose by reducing the national establislitnh"aeabllt both sides had been quarrelling about 0 ; 1 . 1 17 thought they, were beta to blame. Whe ° t i e u etlir e - s, s ments were reduced, and a surplus was obtaisterhtstva: be applied towards the relief of the most u r e e es e A 'u te a ties. Above all, however, he begged the s ," e Sl iv i us, sider, that us this was a commercial cotte"steeeieit/ welfare of the ogriculturists themselves c l _ e P.,„ - osl.'i 0 I f prosperous condition of commerce, it was " - t ee ° e re to remove every fiscal restriction on ootee'f; Or , f and abrcad, h e al Thetb and no u c i o a e u m d f i e h r e O r e et v n e o r f y rteh th seo ing that tended .--, eV' Supply. - la te b .us` l ll o Sir F. BARING said ml t v h ae a dss t °i a ft t stehl that minutes to twelve o'clock) he 'could not p ee l''''' ' vr on with the navy estimates, and therefele ,fee .b, move that the Chairman report progress • ati o' 'snip' Mr. DISRAELI begged to remind th e „,tifg / pc fo e for Montrose, who bad made a very intet'e-abltase'af that it was quire beside the question o w 0 11 r id' t , '' position side (Oahe House. They had e12,•-erri,°o the 300,0001, which was at present unaPrii d ' ~p 1 ' which they thought might as well be OP' ) f l e d r ' tl e lief of the agrieulaural interest. roe , • The House resuaed, and the Chairma- sel 0' :j gress. a e et v e d', In answer to questions put by diger - er at' Members. . ..,. 6 0, °. ( 1, ' li tli P ' Lord JOAN RUSSELL said, that l; Ple Right lion. Feiend the Chancellor Of, t„ -11 13 01 ;pa r f; would make a statement respecting sarte s ety 0 - tl „ 4 ask for leave to bring in a Bill on the sit' 6 0 ° b ", ' 4 afterwards the Government would take itr'a 44 1 log of the Eccleteisistical Commission ft i r e'etsto estimates could not be taken before Alort u e ° ';e o ~, of The Fees (Court of Common Pleas) 011 ' t "'di' c . ~. Committee. ee ,O f teklist On the motion of Mr. ROEBUCTC, t' Le d s'aeeit mittee on Sir Thomas Turton was nontt a , - e tel f aei'' —Mr. Reebeck, Marquis of Douro, v ' l5- eir'' t i, Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Elliot, Mr. Hast t°, l ' O Sir S. Hogg. leo { / The SOLICITOR-GENERAL obtains-0114s in a Bit: to amend an Act of the last se't jet ment, for granting relief against defeats ' ' a under powers of leasing. A i Itt fie ii } The House then; at Twelve o'clock, tss ° ;o 1 0 C i 9 0,1 - -- --C. i d• e EXTRAORDIWARr BIRTIM—On tue „ere - V- If ails D A : Margaret Nutter, of Salford, Burnley, Was he r ese° ftt'e full-grown children; two of whom ae at 1:,, - e ll , i 0w,, , ,.. healthy, and with tliv mother are doing "00 4 ,,," e e' ul female has had twins at two previous birtl ,s %,,,iow e vi l ' j , all seven children within I..he last two years,"ior,',oo, —On the 11th inst., the wife of ilr ;-'' bi er s , ' schoolmaster, Grimsby, of a daughter , 117 cat e i fathers, two grandmothers, tiro great-gra l/- d Old great-grandmothers! jaf ooe a r, [ADVERTISEMENT.] —Wonderful . P „ c o $ ; 0 : loway's Ointment and Pills.—Nine mesas 51;-,d of dAli, residing in Glaslougb,• county of Itlonagh, le : dea l oa ,l made from thebip to the knee e and a lir e ,%igb t - "dit flesh removed. For three years he suffereaeee- 00, 5 , 'O 6 though he consulted all the most skilful s ° l. ts,`„ - t ' ' ,6 4 clans he could hear of, using baths, llin e ie l ' e st•lc i pa ~,. 00 effect. He expected to be a cripple for W e ' fi s t ed. 7, 1 0 " o f ' Holloway's Ointment and Pills, he Is now' c o - thel e to r e f to attend to business for the last six ramithie, ea r t Pr had happened. His address is known tos s iii ° ; l oci $ Armagh G u , ,xrdian. Sold by all druggits,„.4oo, ....„,,,,,,,/ Holloway's Establishment 2.4. r. nd,L el !' -- . , , a oser i is 16 ef• 0° Itt AI" BIRTHS F the d d b of On the 23d inst., at the residence of °f a „op countess Torrington, the Hon. Mrs. Hall, o ste low ge e' On the l'sth inst., in Grosvenor-square, t' t ee v of o g B. Collier, Esq., of a daughter. latlY . ~ t ee i On the 23d inst., at Wargrave, the R. Flint, of a daughter. lap pet 0 On the 23d inst., at Bursledon. Sout h° O ,l W. C. Humphrys, Esq., of a daughter. e r e of r e t , On the 23d inst.. at Winchester, th e /%1 c 10 Esq., -Lieutenant, R.N., of a son. • ,' the Ort the 2 4 th inst., in Chester -a q ua Goddard. Esq., M.P., of a daughter. „sq., or( MARRIED., a . o oVe. n p O ,O On the 25th inst., at St. George* 'nttar l ” tain Ottavio Giuseppe, son of Signor —st Piverone (Ivrea), to Mary Susan, yolegetbarat late Clarke, Esq., of Welton. place. iN? r a At St. Pancras, on the 25th inst r fr",.," ti of the late James Barbour, Esq., of I" bter v - D3u4las, N. 8., to Eliza, youngest clang Jackson, Esq., of Ulverstone. V e* i . DIED. st• 'i litii 1 01 On the f3d inst., in Jermyn-street, , o f tba , Wright, Esq., aged 83. mestiOli (Pr On the 2ed inst., at Jersey, James, e.- - e .o Oridge, Esq., of Kentish-town, aged 3 7 .,.• s, COP .1, , ' On the 23d inst., Mary, the wife of a' VII' cis-street, Newington, Surrey, aged 6 8 . ...flogbiret ‘lol,' On the 23d inst., at Larbrert-house,SSP" • T.v - d wife of Major Chalmer gr. ;fe Of .0 0 .1 On the 25th inst , Mary Ann, the W. t p, P 9 Newgate-street, aged 52. ik I, obe f t " , On the 25th inst., at Walnut-tree-wa-- ' „ o ber ° y : Charles - Nairne, Esq., for many year s 3 ' lle • ' • • - - ---- 'i" O li ; ; Exchange „....---- ----- - - „,•00 1 et 4 —OP-ce, it!' • London ; Printed and Published bl a , vAP - uf C° No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The "I"' ,c; SP Strand, io She PrAninet of the fie / /' Bi'Siti l l77,'KT: Saturday, April 27, 1860. At 0 1 The Pr tt Shot, ati Poe be. , the st ore : to the d e A c a t, to b eeoat s'ince Pal , i n of th e sai, I taY flex ______ Tui That a th e i r no, roe \in th e 4 rajor-G, The fn enabling 110Bin'Sne'• a tries excl c . ' -Lora on, i Ca ? - wo. th t ia lf th, 251, 4 e -z , r Isi.g or "i t `"Pee 1c0,4 3 ' of i Pt C„ eEr st TEN of Tnp '•11 ' t , (l 11,4tu, v 04 ,1 °Ati th e /-de 1441.'4 " 11 of t't ~eP n r Da t rti,e co co o •l r em tz, ir e, 4 , t o (1112 &( 4 R( n 'att io h ~~ ~m ~~ ~~ r, ~ ~I ~I ( FA A p iss , , Tt/t