The Sun. — London, England, 1850-04-17 00:00:00

.~--- arious I been e pre" 'other So )f the u pon route% i t the o per" :,hart . Ind 9 ' o FirO, od o f stud ) " tbeg e ,st de sides, 3h the • d th e on th e This sur . elO. to abolish the tax on light and air, the two great essen tials to hea lth , — ( Cheers.) De impugned , aft . ,rg revenue ether the staternetit that th ese taxes were nece,ea.r o 3, o t/ . expended ~, PtuPeses becat's there were now 4,500,0 to the es;ablistem en t s o f the. country m mo t r t e e than wits ne" , d those Mem esmry fur the public service. He d but he bets were inconsistent who voted for the establishments and thin voted for the reduction of taxation; establishments that. he Olr. Hume) voted against the c 'it;ht have a surplus to apply to e i a ciedutition that this taxa tion, The Hon Member deniel, however,... of evenue, in it reduction would be all his to the used in asnmeh as it would con' era great boon on ' all the ma nufaeturers of the country, the cost of thepaper case with Packing being in many instances as much asthe value of the article itielf. This was particularly the,sodon its cheap hardware. Let the Government h useless teilita establishments ; get rid ry oil the suadron, which was worse than useless; pay .. in this 20 ae he army e i erranean squadron, and reduce t of the African countr, and they would find themselves able not only and other to hike off these taxes, but the window duty, fi,ttr. impleta of a like obnoxious charaefer•—• l e, motion, The, Right nun• Baronet had ellivied t ) le ~had brt 1, (Id 1- • * . llstand? Th , , Holes. hear.) • .ow i the matter rea y a lepte 1 the principle of free-grade, and re , t i ou ( f rids had thereby been eepospd to the co is ea ry out th e wo. . They ca et amen • othnet principle, "ld• ll 1 ' the H iuse . t r. e ~ and he bad theretore . m sa e n v i e , on the subject dr 'l.arctht n of rliate rsnubjehet. He might say . en passant, for them was t brine eftetssi l b aftnthe great urt w i h n o m were too lazy to look 1 e meet ers . for theca them e s 1 h ) and to have facts, and e ves—(Laug ter be doubted Pounda, shillings, and pence, which could not as ,_ or disputed. This return showed that free trade, i` had not :',s""u' ' d fettered trade ; . came on, wasthey.the ~-. come to free trade, and he hope 1 yet to bring He entreated muter before the attention of the House. of the honourable Me b not to listen to the request 'tight Hon. Ba al orbs h' dviee.—(Llughter) Th ronet, eut to take is a tablishments ecoUlltry was borne down by its large es . which and was suffering from excess of taxation, ass per anti araounted to seven or eight millions more alp. A to motions ,_ o seas necessary. Let them then ae i re__ not only Le get rid of obnoxious taxes, and they would reductions do that . i , bet , at the same time, be effecting h n these burdensome establishments,. for it the Ministry their es ad not the mone they would speedily reduce esolu tablishments. He shoud vote in favour of the r tio e d . unneces an in favour of the abolition of all those might easy establishments the maintenance of which create a ditlicity - carrying out the P rinci- N et se , in the way of u ar, hear.) _ inch t resolution affir( e d his vote in _4 , . 3 1.r. B vvART said that he should mot. and ala -4! tic oafo the motion with as much cordiality any re c'uY he had ever manifested in supporting his ex solution that had been put from the chair during because he perence of the /louse. He should support it, because who had eheved, vvith the Right Hon. Gentleman abi ioirtought it fsr ward, in a speech of such remarkable Government Y. that it was one of the primary dutie r s i of he to instruct Right Hon. o rptie and enlighten the people. taxes on know led,„ la, an did not propose that all the did not ad .e mould be abolished at ono blow he t()%18 th . . ofthose imposts under circunalt e immediate abolition loss to the re ve,,, immediate which would cause such hat Hon. Baronet ti;",..?, as had been predicted „by the Rig of 1,300,000/. wilautll;itacel.lor of the Exchequer—a loss lus in the Ex chequer e cudthat there was a su better not do a or , and that the Chancellor cou ld benefit of a wiser thin k public the. Ulm Bil . , g than to give the taxes on know lede_Pltle!, by remitting some of stamp on news duty Nero , . for i n as the e, to It was, of course, m. '' c u Use advertisement duty. "Pliderst Gentleman eente Met ed te ood, that the Right Hon. on know ee_ tie Ultiate abolition of all the i u ge;, but the taxes tion did not go •orteer thanmeasure under consider! remit:l - oe to pledge the House to the immediate aggregate, did not t various it •1, in the aggree • amount to general erns, which, teea see mot ms, than 350,000L—(Hear.)d been made this has; "eY of the attempte which had produced upon hi, '°° mindto reduce taxation had Pr if persons of Proper, * e , the impression wished that to obtain the effe et i n e 4 0 this country the same time that they ,u a and r espect of the people, at ,the wisest th 7:! P t i. eed their own possessions in e at once to ,„',,e_R.tleat they could possibly do would n taxation.—(Hear.) i a More direct system of : lin% to introduction of t ie.! mean to advocate the immediate he but certainly 'wo u l d r t 'l I,leav system of . taxattion, the system of ta/a tiott ,hi e , e length of saying that case of the in eetss.t% 13 had been propounded in the the Member for Z stese e ,, )L te b Y the Right Hon. Gentleman and the ki lt • -*."'? aPpeared to him to be the soundest he was most deeidJetVietous that could be devised, and in this eo ust 'y of opinion that the moneyed classesd rate of tliteetrY would, by submitting to an in t er course which w r44 ~._ taxation on property, adopt th d a to facilitate the ailbarriete3t calculated tu extend labour an The soundest Polio n ee of the people.—(gear, le —(Elear, hear.) . to ex_ that . T . P P • could adopt would be tedd y i l k ) "e as to cheapen as tou c h as at as far as they could, and and these objects Petsible the means of subsistence , the people fret, toWailld •be best attained by relieving n el 0 upon pro pettb einunecessary imposts, and by placing `-' sat pre i.., a larg er han et wa . " -4 eall.a ,Proportion of taxation t Government, if the, c ~," eaded upon to endure. The motion of the iti?,',`',llot bring themselves to accept the would et le„„r?"_,` 'non. Gentleman in its complete shape,. towards th e t i." go well to make some approximation For in -I,__ettninution of the taxes upon knowledge. 156,0001. ; ,t angy the advertisement duty only yielded Exchequer, Idly s h t e l 'Z i e was confessedly a balance in the t.etso etine:"`i not a tax a insi nificant in amoun , SOoner or 1 -- "'" la Principle° be at once remitted ? iiew:ter all such taxis would hare to repealed— the all PePer uut • duty, paper -- • for "tel sur 1 •Y, advertisement li - emus . more judicious th e e hn eY It would be wiser and . t them seriatim, ati b .licellor of the Exchequer to remit all at the same asoo4Yrtraegrees than to dispose of them have to do on l eime f as 11E'. vfould most assuredly be increased !thottutere (ley. His difficulty would the h n ai been not s nitD 3 e a h n d ; 'fold. The tax on knowledge e the mind," ti ille-rLatelY termed " the window-tax ° better. The inhabit. sOoper it was done away with the the 4 Meri e s , ll , t3 e l s foreign countries, but more especiallyterms of re- Pret,ch ei!s, were continually speaking in be found in thi t °, the small number of readers to could c ount s . almost everyone reed, 14 ,, Y, for in America did, very l 'idel v -e n might differ, and no doubt they . n to be ado -" t 4 the b of national education pt s4 i ,. . best system but all must con cur i t , te" such a Country as England; facilities of atlein3t7 °Pinion that it was desirable that of the Peopl e rtetion should he placed within the reach minds better then 41 who would thus cultivate their own a sst eY w ould be enabled to do under anyscholastic_ ...ar, . W better on then I N 4,,,, haisoever, The colonies were In lielieare",toselves with respect to these matters. newspapers sta ) , fe-"0 tiny Scotia, the circulation of uch larger Illiiii i •-- pt°Portion te th ulation, very m . 0 Pop • h was attri I b table t a ~ 'a London, a circumstance whic It should h it 'l O fact that there was no stamp duty. ()ri le • longer no Ithet they 10 mind that newspapers were They *et, used to be in the time of Swift. 4 4 , Lb thene luxuries —they were nownecessaries ; f od nesting N I l it they W ere „ important means 0 Judging V:fro m people was not be questioned. - what h ,h,feh . e had seen of the unstamped publications as 'ete m eere at present in the course of issue — suchekly Plop "s' Journal Eliza Cook' s Journal, and the we was not its "cetions which' boreof Lloyd—he , ham the name the total abolie to anticipate any evil results from . n • ustice to to I °ri of the s tamp-duty. He was bound 1 1 i moral tharefttnit that these publications were of a highy = the ateiht,e_te!, end that they reflected credit as well taste of th ote r or theme who wrote for them as on the who vrer e fwha° Patronise 1 them,—(Hear, hear.) Those M'Culloch t he ttle an : t relying on the authority of Mr. decidedly . go ' 'etue- that gentleman was ter stile to , tuber that Ewart) was led.,toe advertisement duty. He (Mr. more evils t,'3- l lqing it altogether, for he was sure that no those / ;,.,hich 4h11,,,,48 WOUld follow from its abolition than that"hit ''' rosUlted from the repeal of the duty upon ,_ noes, hen he first had the honour of a seat in Pet to °s Be t ever y almanac that was published was sub des- PicaleettY of no less than Is. 4d.; and amore da s was not %la :•omposition than the almanac of thos . e_ 11 days and s ' wh ere to be found. It was full of si y robable I,,iir atrologieal calculations as to the e) 1 3- ' ca l de • • Ministers of t e h day. . artrid ' . statues of the d to ever- It almanacs had been "clarane k e and kerne. 144 ." in the "Rape of the Loc century. It ~-," °:ere equ Ilynotorious in our own belonged Of h -- . 14 Lord a - that the honour to a Wishi ng the !klthorp amounted almanacs, which in theahout 27,0001. a duty , on almanacs , immense improvementcept. le e ephalacter of th )ear. workswas immediately p er he R as - F tl ,q, it had beenesQ ressive that he believed not It - "1"Y warranted i l n e t p h rog assertion that there was such Pa ter pry i s the world in e which such valuable and He We % e.'tillg almanacs were published as in . . England. other taeseregratieeleil that the effect of allabolishang That the "P°ll knowl d be equally beneficial. people .e ge would more ier and order' of this country would be haPP . . et ereYsethat the e would be even better citizens than to the h e ; e'leut, better subjects and stauncher friends litlit" Pro t ifthey ' fairly en fully and of e, ened er y in respect eti e h „ andsnstructed, were questions . nion in the Selm a ere soul trotted , be no diversity of opt the news- Pap er ,;11 Unprejudiced men. With regard to exceed high, ntY. he considered that it was not only i ntetti`,l,llJudicious in principle, but likewisehighly which had s' u'e in • . apers cercei operation, for local newspapers t were sub ieet te 3 ; u!ly circulation by means of the poet journals whose cir e , t i' It Just as much as metropolitan through N it :Mon waa to a very great extent carried on had only to asget'eY•--(Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he was i tltitt y that, et 1 regarding the motion as one whichsts of the 0 % 4 , 4 Q4Y connected with the best interests cter of its Peopi e Y' atid eminently congenial to the ehar" ordial sup per,. , he should not hesitate to give it his c i',,.-Ulear, hear.) d to sever fr()Zth4GLIONBY was sorry to be obliged ed, and who a , "at Party with whom he generally vel Ili, eXertions to diminish taxation usually commanded to cotorpnPatlay and c o - operation ; but, being unable under th e pr e end What good results would be obtained, the teoteot circumstances of the country, from eluc tshtl,,a 1 4 his Right Hon. Friend, he should be r as ohlVeeehliged to give his vote against it. He w res e i t `" to ask himself what practical advantage would . _ Ile to the to from a division on this question? l edg e ould like to see the abolition of all taxes on know c° hut he vvas bound to ask himself whether it was e fl () l ott i r e y tlbi° under the present circumstances of th ,. ?' 1 1% , v f:, a nd if not, whether any good result would toe liirtn.,geing to a division on such a question. If ahouka" ,goo. Gentleman the Member for Manchester *ted h ' e ' ll 4 minority, the effect on the public mind ao izeuile very damaging as far as the question he bad tri kry, h at heart ryas concerned ; but if, on the con deUbt tbeatahh°4ld carry his motion, there could be no 4. voicee would materially damage the Government. fr °ol th IVOUId strati 8 Treasury Bench.-.No, no; he strengthen it. ir )4 r. AGL ovv. it c ' -litell, that was a matter of opinion. , ould be proved th bean weakened, at the Government, so far from tal kli would be benefited, he shouldhave th e pleasure it, f recording his vote in favour . o in" nsotion--(Lati h 41rci telt' t o b , g ter)—but he could not bring e deve that it would have any such opera- THE SUN, ..... tion. When the proper occasion for abolishing these were they in such a state? The reason was that the I taxes had arrived, and when the House was in a position people were invest ed with p olitical p ower be ore they f, to do so, he would hate much pleasu re in su pp ortin g has received political instruction. It was idle to tell him l any motion that might be brought forward with a view that the people of England were possessors of power. to their cbolition, but he thought it was a dangerous It was no suth thing, for a very small portion c f them precedent for that House to pledge itself in one session possessed power. There were Hon. Gentlemen opposite to the expression of an abstract opinion with regard to who had represented large constituencies (he did not see whet might be done in the next. He could cosily imagine any at his side of the Hous who w en he b er th thereat privil were n ege ot ), the possibility of its being demon strated hereaf er to the and he appealed t ) them to e state satisfaction of a majority of that House that there were among then many who held Communist doctrines. — other taxes the remission of which would be more bite- (flear, hear.) He appealed to the Noble Lord who stood ficial to the public et large than the repeal of the taxes bet sseen the country and this ereat :evolution, for it was in question. Of course, the converse of the proposition idle to attempt concealment if the feet—that the people might also be capable of demonstration, sad he had no were becoming excited, and that inevitably they hesitation in asserting that, if he had been put to his would have political power—to be wise in time, and election to say whether he would repo tithe brick duty grant concessions where concessions were required. — or the taxes on knowledge, he should assuredly have (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He had always been a given his vote in favour of the latter. On the other zealous supporter of a levee increase of the franchihe se, hand, if it had been put to him to say whether he would and he had been so with his oyes open, because vote for the abolition of the window tax or for that of cherished the hope that the Government would not op the taxes referred to in the motion of the Right. Hon. pose the education of the people. If they were to tell Gentleman, he would not have hesitated to give his vote him that an uneducated, exe ted, and ignorant multitude in favour of the remission of the window tax, because he were to have the power of regulating this great empire, believed that tax was a most obnoxious one, and ke was he would say that they must have it; but he addressed certain that its repeal would be productive of greater re- himself t o t hose who had in their hands the mighty in lit f to the public than the repeal of any other impost terests of this expanded empire, and he asked ofteto whetsoever. raise theinse'vt , s ab , )ve the petty conceptions a mere Colonel THOMPSON observed that the mover and Ministry clinging to power, to expand and exalt their seconder of the moti , in expressed an opinion which was minds, and to say to those who directed public opinion likely to command very general sympathy in that in this country—" We are about to raise the people to House when they stated that all taxes on knowledge exercise and appreciate the great business of empire; ought to be repealed as soon as ever the Chancellor of the tide of time will raise them up to that position; we Exchequer found it possible to do so. The sentiment cannot prevent the consummation, but we are about to was no doubt a very proper one, but when he thought instruct the millions of our countryman to min ist to understan to d of the course which certain Hon. Members who were their own interest, a ndunderstanding it, er supporting the present resolution had adopted w it h re- the interests of mankind."— (Cheers.) Let thi and let no narrow help thinking of the homely and childish prover b which interfere eith the great propositio n of the Ri g ht Hon. said that a man could not cat his cake and have i t too. Gentleman (Mr. M. Gibson).—(Cheers.) , —(Hear, hear.) The relief which they had given to rich Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Mr. Speaker, those Mem men the night previous would render it no easy matter hers who were not in the House at the time when my to procure any relief for the poor to-night. He con. Rieht Hon. Friend the Chanceor ofotion the E the xche qeechuer fessed that he felt a little sore on the transactio n of last spoke can hardly have any correc ll t n of sp night, and must be excused if, in now voting for the mo which he has made from the represe ntations which have tion of the Right Hon. Member for Manchester, he gave been made of it by the Hono on. urab and le Gearneentlemdan Gent Gentleman on as doing more than expressing a hope that the Chan- asks us to raise ourselves above petty fiscal considera cellor of the Exchequer would repeal the taxes on dons, and to look at the subject with the importance knowledge as soon as he found it practicable to do which it demands. But I own I think that the view so.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Perhaps he had been which my Right Hon. Friend took of this case was a educated in a contracted school, but he could not remove most important one, and the one upon which the decision from his mind the impression that little was to be of the House ought to depend. My Right Hon. Friend gained by attacking a Chancellor of the Exchequer on shaded to the propositions which had been made in this any point. He was willing to admit that the present House after the financial statement of the year had been Chaneellorof the Exchequer deserved well of the country. delivered, mad having alluded to the taxes which he and had taken more steps in the right direction with re- proposed to abolish or reduce, he stated that, after the spect to taxation than any one else who had preceded him payment of 250,0001., he did not think there would be a in his office of late years. It was to be hoped that, not- margin of more than 400,0001. on the whole of the esti withstanding the untoward occurrence of the preceding mates for the financial year. Having done this, my evening, he would persevere in the right course, and ulti- Right Honourable Friend alluded to the propositions mately attain that influence and that position in the Which had been made to this House for the reduction of country to which he was clearly entitled. It was greatly taxes. He alluded to the motion very lately made, and to be regretted that the question of the reduction of very nearly carried for the redaction of the window taxation should be hampered, as it had unfortunately tax, amounting to 1,800,0001. lie alluded to the pro been so frequently of late, by being connected with the position now made to reduce 1,300,0001. He alluded restoration of the slave trade. For his part, he was unable to the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman the Member to discern any legitimate connexion between them. The for Montrose, which stands on the votes of this evening, African squadron was no nuisance to him. He met it for the reduction of duties upon agricultural produce and nowhere. It did not disturb his daily thoughts nor his manufactures to the amount of 1,500,0001., amounting nocturnal visions. He cheerfully paid his share in the altogether to no less a sum than 4,600,0001.—(Hear, expenses it occasioned, and would have no objection to hear.) And my Right Hon. Friend said that if the pay still more if the laudable object for which it had House, without considering the scope and general ten been established could be realised.--(Hear, hear.) H e dency of these propositions, would take them piecemeal. could wish that Hon. Members at his own side of the at a period when there was only a surplus of 400,0001. House had a little more worldly prudence. There on the financial year, we would fled ourselves, after could be no doubt that more than three additional having got out of a financial difficulty, again plunged Members would have voted for the abolition o f th e into embarrassments, and that we would give up a posit window•tax the other evening had not the q ues tio n tion of safety, security, and honour, for one that was been bound up so illegitimately and irrationally with the unsafe, insecure, and injurious to the credit of this great question of the African squadron. It was, indeed, country.—(Loud cheers.) Sir, I may confidently ask greatly to be deplored that some of his Hon. Friends the House whether this was a petty view to take of the had not a little more worldly wisdom. There was no bait interests of the country ?—(Hear hear.) I think not. in the shape of a reduction of 101 . or 201 . (to be effected And when the Hon. and LearneSGentleman tells of re at the expense of the Chancellor of the Exchequer) that volutions, and alludes to the condition of neighbouring could be thrown over to them from the other side of the countries, I know no cause which has been more fertile House, that they would not only nibble at, but swallow in revolutions than the mismanagement of finances; a with the greatest possible avidity.—(Laughter.) policy which has reduced the revenue of those states far Mr. ROEBUCK did not think that the Hon. and below their expenditure, and brought in its wake na- Gallant Member who had just resumed his seat had put tional bankruptcy and confusion.—(Cheers.) Why, if tae transaction of the previous evening in quite a fair this be the case with regard to other countries, I light. The object of those who had voted in the majo- think the warning of my Right Honourable Friend was rity was the laudable and reasonable one of attempting not thrown away, and that he took no trifling fiscal to raise a revenue in the least mischievous form in which view of the case, but a comprehensive and intelligent a most mischievous revenue could be raised. They had one, when he asked the House to consider these matters endeavoured to make the pressure of a tax, to the prin- as a whole; and, whether dealing with the stamp duty, ciple of which they strongly objected, as eqaable and the window duty, and the taxes upon paper and adver tolerable as possible, by spreading it over as large a sur- tisements, to consider, not the detects of the tax, but face as possible, and making many contribute in a small how its abolition might affect the general interests of the sum, rather than a few in a very large amount. He country, and to lose sight of the defect in the danger to had heard the song sung by the Chancellor of the Ex- which the credit and best interests of the country might chequer, and a very dismal and melancholy song it was. bo exposed.—(Hear, hear.) I agree with my Right —(Laughter.) It was the old story about a falling en - Honourable Friend in the view that he has taken. chequer. He had seen many successive Chancellors on But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite says that the Treasury bench, but he had never known one of I have a contracted mind.—(Laughter.) Well, so it is, them of whom it might not with perfect truth be said and so I suppose it must be.—(Renewed laughter.) I that, when something that was not quite customary was regret that I. do not rise to the height of the Hon. and proposed to him with respect to taxation, his gorge rose Learned Gentleman's magnificent conceptions.—(Laugh as though you hid politely asked him to devote to deter.) I trust, however, lam not an enemy to the pro struction the whole fabric of society. To propose any gress of knowledge, and that lam not opposed to the alteration, however trivial, in the mode of taxation, was, remission of those duties when it can be effected. At in the estimation of a Chancellor of the Exchequer, tan- the same time, lam bound to see that the credit of the tamount to proposing an alteration in the position of the country is not shaken, and I think it behoves the Go stars —(Laughter.) As for the instruction of the vernment to place its financial position clearly before human mind, that was a mere secondary consideration, the House. My Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of He at once met you by stating that there would be a the Exchequer said, and said truly, that different views loss of 50,0001. to the Exchequer, and there was an end had been taken of this subject by different Members. of the matter. Talk to him about the powers of produc. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose has ex. tion being augmented, or about the certainty of intro-. pressed his opinion that great reductions might be during something new which should make the country made in the naval and military estimates, but a large what it never had been before in point of happinness and majority of the House has voted these estimates, prosperity, he would reply, "My good sir, it is out of the and es I think that it would be extremely dan question. It would occasion a loss to the Exchequer of Este roux, regard being thi, ha count d to the preset st ate 50,0001. If you were to represent t o bim of Europe, to leave s ry in a defence e that that which constituted the Exchequer was the less position, I agreed with the view which the power of labour, which poured its earnings into it, be majority of the House took in voting those estimates. would still be as inexorable as ever. Strong in the con- Then, again, lion. Gentlemen opposite say, there is no viction that he had Cocker at his back, he would enter great mischief if there be some deficiency in income, be into a calculation to show you that two and two made cause we may regain what we have lost by the imposi four, which, by the way, was not sound political arithmetic tion of those taxes which formerly contributed consider for a Chancellor of the Exchequ er.— (Hear, hear.) Such able portion of revenue; but, Sir, I think the ma j orit y of the House would reject that policy as a return to a a question as that at present under consideration was not a matter for the decision of a Chance llor of the Exche- vicious system which has been lately abando ned.— ( Hear quer. It was a matter which ought to be decided b y the hear.) Inc.ee in these reductions, and it would be im p os- ' result, therefore, would be , that no p arties Noble Lord at the head of the Government. W hat higher would agr duty could possibly engage the attention of the Govern- ,sible to reconcile Hon. Gentlemen to a n y descri p tion of ment than the education of the people? The people, taxation that would make the revenue equal to the ex educated and enlightened, were omnipotent for every penditure, or reduce the expenditure in harmony with great achievement; ignorant and benighted, they (tarried the revenue.—(Hear, hear.) The consequence would be, about them the elements of mischief. Of what avail . that the House would find itself in a position of finan were fiscal considerations, when there was under our ciel di fficult y discreditable to the country, and more feet a volcano, which might break forth at any moment, especially so as there is, in reality, no difficulty before and devote the country to destruction? How was it. With regard to the remission of the taxes on it possible to conduct the people in a beneficent course knowledge, lam not disposed to say much. I admit with otherwise than by instructing them? And how were they the Hon. Member for Edinburgh who seconded this me to be instructed unless by those powers of mechanism tion, that when deputations come to me to express their which the arc of printing had placed in the hands of none,opinimy lips are, as he said, congealed. Laugh ter their governors ? lie confessed he was sickened and dis- —ad at Ido not express the agreement I may enter gusted with the cant of " humanity" which prevailed in taiu to the objections taken to certain imposts; for it the present age. When he appealed to those on whose really is the case, that there is hardly a deputation, lips this cant was found most fit quently, they evinced whether it be to urge the remission of duties on ten, their readiness to let him -have their charity. Now soap, advertisements, and windows, which has not charity, in his acceptation of the word, meant insult.— demonstrated that that particular tax is in (Hear, hear.) Give the people the means of instruction, jurious to the country. I cannot well dispute and they would not ask for charity. Let them acquire these statements; but on the other hand, if I were to say knowledge, and they would not need assistance to enable they were right in wishing to see those duties abolished, them to obtain the means of subsistence.—(Hear, hear.) or to make any pledge upon the subject, they would im- These were truths evoked by the experience of mankind mediately charge me with a breach of faith in not having in these latter ages. We did not know it three ceutu- come down to this House and joined my Right Hon. ries ago, but we know it now. We knew what instruc- Friend.—(Bear, hear.) Ido not think the Governments tion was—we knew how to communicate it to the people, with which I have been connected have shown indiffer and we knew that a Liberal Administration, which had ence to the evils which have been inflicted by those not put its entire faith in the mere holding on of place, taxes. I find that, in the year 1833, Lord Althorp re but which had its purpose and object in raising, and not duced the duty on advertisements from 3s. 6d. to ls. 6d., depressing, the people, upon whose enthusiasm it thus losing a sum which he thought would amount to traded, would have been the first to strike down those 70,0001. per annum. Lord Monteagle also, when Chan fiscal exactions upon the instruction of the people. The cellor of the Exchequer, reduced the charge for news administration of the Noble Lord had not been of that paper stamps amounting to 309,0001. per annum, and kind. lie had hung on by place, and he had not sought also reduced the duty upon the finer descriptions of paper, to raise the social position of the people by wholesome amounting to 394,000/.—(Hear, hear.) You have thus instruction. He had, no doubt, wished to get over the about 775,000/. which has been remitted by the Govern difficulties of his position, but he had not; he had ments with which I have been connected from the very not sought to raise the condition of the people whom articles upon which the Rig ht Hon. Gentleman wishes he had the misfortune to govern. It was upon this for further reduction s . This show s that we have not ground that he quarrelled with the Noble Lord.— been indi ff erent to the evils cause d by these taxes, and (Rear, hear.) He did not care for the opinion of that as far as these taxesarec oncerned, supposing that none more them objec tionable, Honourable Gentlemen at his (Mr. Roebuck's) side among all the taxes th ere were of the House.—(Laughter.) He assured them that we should be ready to reduce or ab olish if th etr:own they were centuries behind the times, and that merits were only concerned. At the same ti me, the idea of resuscitating Protection was an idle and de - the benefit to be derived from these redu ctions h I think been lusive hope. It' they attempted it they would be put greatly exaggerated. — (Hear, hear.) I ndeed down and crushed. The Noble Lord need not , however, the phrase " taxe s up on knowledge" is s an exaggeration. I apprehend any attempts from that aide of the House. — (Hear, hear.) W e heard the Hon. Gentleman say, There was nothing approaching to opposition to be and say truly, that a great part of the evil complaine d feared, but there was a tide setting in out of doors, of bytho deputation bore upon the coarser kinds of pap er which, if the Noble Lord could but understand and profit used in packing parcels, such as ironmong ery; but I by, would make him omnipotent with the people.— it cannot be contended that the duty u p o n pa d r used ple sure (Hear, hear.) But he had a narrow and contracted for such purposes amounted to a tax upo kn mind.—(Hear, hear.) There was, however, a boldness (Laughter.) Then, with regard to newsp apers, ow l. e . it g is . --, I about the Noble Lord which he admired, and a courage admit, desirable that the people should hav t e h tio k ittcal in whichh he liked. The Noble Lord was placed in a posi- formation ; at the same time I tion which no other man had ever been fortunate of the matter contained in the newspapers ean e hard ea ly ee b enough fi to occupy, and it he would but take the tide at its dignified by the name of knowledge. Again, my Right e ethefr articleso m un - ow, he might make much of it; but if he did not, the Hon. Friend showed the mischief ° resulting from un tide would swallow him, and he would be as nothing in stamped publications, and read various arti cles lik the vast multitude of theewarers which surrounded him. stamped papers which were extremely —(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Roebuck) believed that no I hare found in stamped papers. There was, for in bntter proposition could have been brought forward than stance, the character of Lord Grey, which I should have that which the Right Hon. Gentleman had introduced, considered written by Jacob Omnium and other writers —(Hear, hear.) And why did he say so? Because he in the daily press. With regard to the other news knew that the thousands and millions of the people papers for which sd. is charged, ld. of which only is for of this country who were now rising up and gasp- stamp duty. the only reason that they are charged s ing for education would have their atte n ti on highly is that they are put to great expense in getting in directed to other subjects if they did not get it. formation. One gentleman connected with a morning republic, as they had at the other w e side s hou l d of have the a water, red correspondencenewspaper told mf for thatth a t journalth the ee amountedof express i t n o g 6 t o h o e l. French If the people were not educated where the people were not properly educated, and where It is, therefore, the desire of the public to get early in they they only knew how to combine for h r i n eh ischievous That spirit of Commun ism to b e found which in En g land , wa s s o p a r n e d v a i - t par- taxesl must o f that t declinel i e s r newspapers to entering eri abolished gh intoi g h , pose s. lent in Fra nceTh and not pledge tghee that t n t y h stamp . ese a,. would to a certainty put clown the existing state of above every other tax. The Hon. Gentleman the things if the people were not taught h ow to direct th e ir Member for Montrose has advocated the reduction of powers. There were 30 , 0 0 0 ,000 of per sons at the other the duties on windows grid soap, and has stated that side of the water quite as good as ourse lves; but was sanitary measures are useless unles s those imposts be there ever known such a rope of sandastltat which abolished. I admit that those duties interfere very France now presented, because the people were much with the health, enjoyment, and means of clean perly instructed? Ho contended that the affair s not o pr o - of this linos of the people at large. These are very strong country were conducted by a very small portion people. The multitudes, however , were rising up, and o bj ections, tuxes and equally strong as those urged against the on knowledge. The Hon. and Learned it was impossible any longer to prevent them from having Gentleman the Member for Sheffield say s, acted minds, we have con power. He entreated the Government, th erefore, to tr that we shall fall into danger, and has diffuse freely and without fiscal restraint the benefit of rem inded education to those vast mult itudes who were ent itled to sho ev us the perils that we are likely to encounter. Sir, possess, and who inevitably would sooner or later possess, th .e present condition of France is not owing to the high those powers which they had not previously enjoyed. ',ne e , o f nle. ewspapers , or to the want of instruction among He charged them, therefore , in Go d ' s name to g ive in - the I understand that in Paris you can get for struction to the vast multitudes of the p eo p le who had a haileef!)epnn not hitherto had power, but who were n ow destined to, clever writing,a newspaper full of ingenious epigrams, intelligence of the day. enjoy it. Lot not the narrow view of the Chancellew Schoolmasters a re and all the spread also over France, but the of the Exchequer be allowed to interfere in a matter newspapers ende avour to make government impossible; of so great moment. He appealed to the Noble Lordat and there are sc hoolmasters who endeavour to make re the head of the Government to look to the condition of li 'gton d' o tous.—(Hear, hear.) Then Sir, I say, if you France, Germany, and Italy,.--(Hear, hear.) Aid why ' have chest ) newspapers which endeavour ty Teske go , _ vernment impossible, and if you have schoolmasters whose object is to make religion odious, 1 can more c a-My explain the state of Franco than wish for an imitation of it.—(Hear, hear.) I do not believe, with the Hoe. and Learned Gentleman, that the people of this country are only lately admitted to political power. They are a people long accustomed to political discussion, and long accustomed to take part in the poli tical events of their country. The hearts of the men of England have ever throbbed with the victories of &g -land, they have been proud of the loyalty of the throne of England, and they are men who are proud of the re ligion of their country.—(Hear.) Tony entertain those feelings. They have watche I with anxiety every turn in the events of their country, and while they have fol lowed some Ministers and chiefs with admiration and enthusiasm, they have been as ready to condemn others for incompetency and unfitness.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman says we care for nothing hut holding on fir puce. But a few days ago I was re proached for the part I took in opposing a motion for the withdrawal of the Aftican squadron, and I am re proached fur declaring myself determined not to retain effiee unless my opinions were assented to by a majority of the House on that occasion. S:r, I am ready to submit to either imputation, as I am not conscious of being guilty in either respect.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") So long as we can maintain the principles upon which we think the greatness of England has been founded—so long as we can meititein this country in the possession of those great benefits which she has the happiness to enjoy—so long as we can keep her in the pursuit of that path which has been marked out by Providence for her entree—so long will it be a matter of pride to us to be the foremost advisers of our Sovereign. —(Hear, hear.) If it phase the Rouse to take a course which we think dangerous or discreditable to the coun try, then our names must be severed from the possession of power; and we can only lament that the country has taken a course which we will think unfortunate.—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) Sir, I must ask the House to reject the motion; I do so with all respect to the Right Hon. Gentleman; I do so, agreeing in many of the statements which he has made with respect to the objections to be urged against those taxes; but I say this is not the occasion, nor the time, when the House of Commons can lightly condemn taxes necessary for the support of your public obligations, and for the support of those establishments which you deem essential for the national defence. If that be the case, then I ask the House to concur with me in the rejection of this motion, and to show the country that you are determined to main tain the credit, and be worthy of the people whom you lead.—(Cheers.) Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, before we divide, I wish to take the opportunity of expressing in a very few words the reasons why I shall vote in support of the motion. I understand that the question before the House is, whether we shall agree to the first resolution of the Right Honourable the Member for Manchester. I be lieve that resolution recommends that such financial ar rangements ought to be made as will enable us to repeal the excise duty on paper. That is the question upon which the division is to be taken.—(Hear, hear.) In dealing with this question, I shall not indulge in those general and emphatic views which characterised the speech of the Honourable and Learned Member for Sheffield, and also that of the Noble Lord the First Mi nister. They have both brought us to the Red Republic, and there we will leave them—(Loud Laughter) —nor, Sir, is it at all necessary for me, in the present instance (although I think it a subject well worth the considera• don and deep attention of the House) to enter into the cases in which within a very few years vast reduc tions amounting to nearly 9,000,000/.—of taxation— pressing principally on.trade and commerce. After having repealed those laws, the repeal of which we were told would enable the enterprise and industry of England to beat the world, we still find that, year after year, I may say day after day, and hour after hour, the burden of taxation has become more grievous and op pressive.—(Hear, hear.) Nor shall I remind the House, and especially my Friends, that if we adopt any mea sures for the reduction of taxation, which, under such circumstances the community and o ur constauent a who were lately complaining of those burdens, might be in duced to agree to, and which, whatever might be the consequences, would afford them relief, we could only make up the deficiency in the revenue by having re course to import duties. I say, I shall not dwell upon that point, although it might be a topic not distasteful to us, for really all these matters have been placed before us in a more fervid manner by the Noble Lord, and by the Right lion, the Member for Manchester, than they could be from the somewhat dry details before us. We are now called upon by our vote virtually to repeal an excise duty to the amount of 750,0001. I cannot view this question totally unconnected with this year's finan cial exposition of the Government, to which the Noble Lord has himself referred. I was not, from acciden tal circumstances, present when that statement wes made, but it is an immortal subject. It is still alive. Last night, even, its details were under consideration, and the question proposed to-night— the step which we may prudently take—is entirely con nected with that financial statement of the Government. Now, I hold, as a general rule, that there are two consi derations which ought to influence a financial minister in dealing with a heavy tax and a surplus. I think the first duty that should occur to him should be to re lieve any suffering interest in the country.—(Hear.) And I think that if the country be in that happy state that there is no interest of importance in great distress and suffering, his next duty should be to relieve all in- terests by devoting the surplus to the reduction of the public debts, that is, by reducing the general taxation of the country.—(Hear.) These are the two considerations which should guide a minister of finance in dealing with the surplus revenue. These are the two c oaside rations which should influence public men when it was officially announce I that we had a surplus, and when, in connexion with that announcement, it was declared by the Financial Minister himself that there was an interest in the country—and the most important interest—not only suffering, but greatly suffering, and that its Suffering was not only recognised by those who more immediately represented it, but by the Government itself, and by the Representatives of this House ge• nerally. But was any proposition brought forward to devote that surplus to the relief of that suffering in tore a? What was the conduct of the Government? They opposed that proposition, notwithstanding their acknowledgment that that important interest was greatly suffering. Under all the circumstances of the case, they thought they felt justified in resisting the application of the surplus revenue of the country to the relief of that interest. Sir, I felt, in the object I then attempted to effect, that I had acted in a manner which brought t f me and those who supported me no mortification.—(Cheers from the Protectionist benches.) And what was the conduct of Government after that? Were they influ enced by that which I conceived to be the second consi deration which should influence a minister dealing with a surplus? Did the Government devote that surplus to the reduction of the public debt, and consequently to the reduction of the burdens that pressed on all classes? They did not. They came forward and made a propo sition which I think I am justified in saying was most unsatisfactory to the people of this cuuntry.—(Hear, hear.) They proposed a repeal of the excise duty on bricks—a proposition against which, if I had been here at the time, I should have entered my protest, and which I think I can say with truth was accepted by those for whose benefit it was intended with utter deri sion.—(Hear.) By that means the Government reduced their announced surplus of 1,510,000/. to 500,000/. The second measure which they announced was also a mea sure of relief to the same interest. Upon that measure I need not dilate, because its principal character and peculiar merits are most familiar to all present, and the House still resounds with the cheers which last night hailed the defeat of Ministers on that measure. At this moment the Government are in possession of an unap propriated surplus of 1,000,000/. What does the first resolution of the Right Hon. Member for Manchester ask them to do with that surplus? Only to appropriate a portion of that surplus to the repeal of the Excise duty on paper. Before I give any opinion upon that particular proposition, there is one observation which I would make, with great respect, to my Hon. Friends and also the proposition made around me. It is very true that a proposition to repeal the excise duty on Paper , the other night to repeal the window•duty, are not pro positions to repeal taxes with which those whom we represent on this side of the House are immediately concerned ; but I would impress upon my Hon. Friends that there is nothing more dangerous—there is no thing more to be deprecated—than to make in this House the offer to relieve th e p eo p le from taxation alwa y s a question between tow n and country,—(Hear.) I have often witnessed the art that has been enapfoyed to convey a most unjust impression to the public that the only idea we, on this side of the House, have with regard t relief from taxation was to relieve the class with which we stand immediately connected from that burden, not taking any thought for those who are not connected with us. The question of relief from taxation should be always a general and national question.—(Bear, hear.) And if at any time, at th is side of the House, so far as lam individually concerned any proposal for the relief of taxation has been broug ht forward ostensib ly for the purpose of relieving one cla ss onl y , it was because that class was universally confessed to be, not only th e m ost suffering class, but the on l y suffering class.— (Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of t he Exche q uer hav ing , in the management of this surplus, declined to be i n fl uence d by those considerations which ought to direct his con duct, and as he has at his command a surplus exceeding that required by the propo sition before us, I am to consider whether, on the whole, it is mos t for the advantage of the country t hat the excise duty on paper should be repealed, or that the Chancellor of the Exche quer should have in hi s p ossession a sum for the discreet exorcise of which I have no securit y what ever; fur it should be remembered that, notwithst an di ng the events of last night, the Chancellor of th e Ex chequer did not come forward at half past four o'clock to-day and frankly tell us what he intimdel to do with this surplus. lie did not tell us whether he meant to proceed with his measure respecting the stamp duties or not. Ile has loft us in complete obscurity on that sub jeet.—(Lloar, hear.) What, then, is the p ee p, sition of the Right Honourable the Member for lalen cheater? Can there be in th is House u p on the abstract merits of that question two opinions? In it possible that any person on the abstract merits of that question can have an opinion different from that of the Right lion. Gentleman? You may have two opinions as to the effect of an advertisement duty. There may be also two opinions as to the effect of the stamp duties on news papers; and, as I have not arrived at those resolutions, 1 decline now to express my op inion with re pect to those duties, but that there are no evils ariain:.a; from duties abstractedly greater than the excise duty on paper, whether considered materially or morall y , is a position which I think no one will contest.—(Hear.) I shall not enlarge on those interests in detail on which the Right Hon. Gentleman dwelt, and with which many of us are familiar, but shall merely remind the House that taxes upon knowledge are sneered at us fantastic by the First Minister, at a time when Chambers had to give up o publigotion belying § circulotio“ of 80,000 e, week-9, Birch, Sir T. they might be easily complied with if the Right Hon Gentleman chose. Mr. ANSTEY said that his Hon. Friend the Member for Carlow had somewhat mistaken the nature of the case which he had submitted to the House, in so far at least that he did not seem to be aware that the blame rested rather with the East India Company than with the Board of Control. Ho hoped the assurance which the Right Hon. Baronet had given of the favourable in• tentions of Government towards the Irish bar would be remembered when they exercised more influence in those appointments than they practically did a . present. After a few words from Mr. LAWLESS, the House divide: . when there appeared— For the motion Against it ... Majority publication of the most instructive and rational nature, and the most highly conducive to good government that ever appeared, because ho was beat out of the market by a publication in Holy well-street, which exceeded his in circulation, and which was dedicated to the most inde cent and blasphemous purposes.—(Hear, hear.) Since the Chancellor of the Exchequer has declined relieving that interest whose sufferings eetitle them to relief, and as he has not adopted the alternative of reducing, on a general scale, the great taxation of the country, can we do better than assent to the first resolution of the Hon. Member for *Manchester? In my opinion it is a prudent, a politic, and a beneficial motion, and ought to be as sented to. Are we to be prevented from assenting to a resolution so justified by circumstances, so practical iu its character and beneficial as it must be in its results by the ensanguined phantoms of a revolu tionary republic conjured up before us, and the pos sible catastrophe indicated in Delphic sentences?— (Hear, hear.) We should not fear any misfortunes of that kind. The very argument of the Noble Lord, that the people of England is a population educated in politi cal knowledge and public liberty—an observation most just and true—is the best security at all times for the conduct of the people,—(Hear, hear.) After all that we have seen of this somewhat eventful session, especially as regards finance—after all we have seen respecting the African squadron, to which, from motives of delicacy I intend nut to allude, and which, from the uneasiness ex pressed on that side of the House whenever the subject is referred to, has thrown a shade of darksome tint over the Liberal benches—after ail we witnessed last night, and all we may witness in feture, I trust the House will not be frightened from taking that course which is jus tified by circumstances—% course which is consistent with the state of the Exchequer, and in accordance with public opinion. Let the House support, as I shall pre sume to do in the present instance, the first resolution of the Right Hon Member for Manchester.—(Cheers.) The House then divided on the first resolution — For the first resolution Against it ... ... ... ... 190 Majority against the first resolution --101 The second and third resolutions were then negatived. On the fmrth, viz., that as to the repeal of the customs duty on foreign books, Mr. ROEBUCK wished to know what objection the Government could have to the repeal of a duty which, whilst it prevented the poor man from enjoying the benefits of reading a work imported from France, Ger many, or America, yielded but a very alight addition to the revenue of the country. After a few words from Mr. HUME condemnatory of this duty, The 4th resolution, like the 2d and 3d, was negatived. INDUSTRIAL INVESTMENTS. Mr. SLANEY then rose to move for a Select Com mittee to consider and suggest means of removing ob stacles and giving facilities to safe investments for the savings of the middle and working classes, and fur affording them the means of forming societies to insure themselves against coming evils frequently recurring. The richer the person and the larger the invest ment the less did it eost in proportion. Now, taking a man possessed of 5,0001. as representing the richer class, he might invest that sum in land at a cost of only 2/. 103. per cent., or 1251. A man possessed of only 5001. might represent the middle class, but the in vestment of that suns in land would cost him 101. per cent., or 501.; whilst a man possessed of only 501. could not invest it for less than 20 per cent., or 101. That gave the humbler classes a strong claim to relief being afforded to them in some other mode of investment. It might be said they could invest in the public funds; but they might invest when the funds were high, and be obliged to sell out when the funds were low, and thereby lose a part of their capital. There was already an example for what he proposed. The other day a large lodging-house for the humbler classes had been established in this metropolis, in shares, yielding profit, and he believed that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as well as the Noble Lord lately at the head of the Woods and Forests, were partners in it. A char ter had been granted to it, and it was being carried on by joint capital. But the local improvements which he proposed could not at present be undertaken without a separate Act of Parliament in each case. He asked, thee, only that the same principle should be applied in this case as was applied for the landed gentry a short time since for the enclosure of commons, at a compara tively small expense. He did not ask the Government to give anything, ,but to afford to the humbler classes the means of a safe investment for their small savings. If the Government though: his motion was too extensive, ansi refused it, he trusted they would consider the sub ject, for he felt confident that, for the encouragement of the middle and humbler classes, and attaching them to this country, nothing was of more c onsequence than to give them every facility for the safe investment of what they had obtained by their labour and diligence. Mr. LABOUCHERE had great pleasure in stating he did not feel it necessary to oppose the motion of bis lion. Friend. No one could doubt that the object of his Hon. Friend was of the utmost importance, and he thought it probable that the Committee might obtain va luable information on various topics connected with it; at the same time some of those topics were of great dif ficulty. He agreed with his Hon. Friend that it was of great consequence for industrious persons among the bumbler classes to have greater facilities than they now possessed of investing their savings in an easy and safe manner, and he should be glad by every means in his power to remove the obstacles to carrying out that ob ject. The inquiry, however, would involve serious questions connected with the law of partnership, upon which point he would refer to the evidence given by many of the most eminent men in the mercantile world before the Committ2e of 1837. But he would suggest to his Hon. Friend the propriety of altering tho terms of his motion, as the latter part of it was not very clear. The first part of it was for a Select Committee to consider and suggest means of removing obstacles and giving facilities to safe investments for the savings of the mici- dle and working classes, and so fa was clear enough; but the latter part of it, " and for affording them the means of forming societies to insure themselves against coming evils frequently recurring," was obscure. The Hon. Member had better omit the words. Mr. P. HOWARD hoped the Committee would direct its atteution to the removal of the difficulties with which building societies had to contend. Mr. SLANEY said he might defend the phraseology of his motion by high authority—" Coming events cast their shadows before;" but nevertheless he would omit the passage which had been objected to. The motion, as amended, was agreed to. LEGAL APPOINTMENTS IN INDIA. Mr. SADLEIR rose to move for " a return of all per sons in India receiving salaries, pensions, pay, profits, fees, emoluments, allowances, or grants of public money, by virtue of any direct or indirect nomination, recom mendation, or appointment by the President of the Board of Control over the Affairs of India alone, or by virtue of any arrangement with the Board of Directors of the East India Company, and the dates of each such nomination, recommendation; or appointment respectively, from the Ist of January, 1832, to the Ist day of March, 1850, excepting the judges of the su perior courts of law in India; stating the t dal amount received by each individual in each year, and distin guishing the sources from which the payments are made." His object in moving for this return was t o show TO THE SECRETARY OF TH E that in the appointments to judgeships in India members BRADFORD REFORM ASSOCIATION. of the Irish bar were unfairly passed over. Since 1825, Sir,—On Monday the 15th, the Chancellor of the no member of the Irish bar had been made an Indian Exchequer's new Stamp Duties Bill was considered judge. Indeed, be might say that during the last twenty- in Committee. five years the Indian bench had been filled up t hree times As a good deal hangs by this which is of import from the English bar exclusively, and by barristers, too, who could not boast of great practice or l on g standing. ante to those or. whom you are the or g an, I have to request that you will summon It was true that during the period stat ed an Indian a jury of twelve good men and true of the operative classes, and put your judgeship was offered to Mr. Richards, now Baron Ri che-els, the judge who presided over the Encumbered self, as is meet, for forema n ; and b y their decision I will stand or fall. Estates Commission. Mr. Richards , however, had then been twenty-six years at the bar, was leading counsel in I need not tell such a jury , t hat in addition to the the Rolls' Court, and was in the direct road to a seat on fact of taxation being heavier than needs,—which as the. Irish bench; and, under these circumstances, he re- far as concerns the present argument shall be ad fused to go to India. The Right Hon. Gentleman had tnitted to any extent it is chosen to assign,—there felled to fulfil his pledge of last year, that whenever a was another enormous evil, which in truth made vacancy occurred on the Indian bench the claims of the Irish bar would be fairly considered. If information were furnished as to the administration of patronage by the sting of the whole as regards the working classes, Right Hon. Gentleman in other departments, the poor than on the rich, in pro theWhich was or is, that the taxation was levied by a higher rate upon the instances theo. same partiality, as regards England and Scotland, would P ortion of eleven to one. If the rich had taxed the be demonstrated. p p o o r rtions varying in different up to pr Sir J. HOBROUSE observed, that if he did not P rate of themselves, ht have been give so satisfactory an answer as he could wish it the magnitude of the whole taxation mi e g dtha t f P oor at an eleventh part of the . would be because the return had reference to all pa- something approaching to the hun h dr e e p m r . o tronage, with the special exception of judicial patronage, the importance it is at present and t er for .I. am to which alone the speech of the Hon. Gentleman re- taro lam right in saying, that the higher rate upon lated. With every inclination in the world, it was im- the poor was what made the sting, and consequently possible to give the information sought in the return. was one of the first things to be removed when The pledge of last session was, that when a vacancy possible. took place in India the claims of the I r is h bar would be At last, then, there comes a Chancellor of the E x _ fai , ly considered; and a week had not passed when a communication was made to Lord Clarendon, asking upon the poor is an enormity, and I chequer whe says, "I am conscious that this higher will remove him whether there was any gentleman he could recom ; The Stamp Duties are glaring ' a instance, for mend. He (Sir J. liobhouse) had recommended two -t. • l find judges for Penang. When the Recordership of Penang there you wi lthe poor man who has scraped together 50/. and wants to lend it on security, is rate , again fell vacant he again wrote to the Irish authorities, 0 and, in consequence, a member of the Irish bar came to taxed 1/., or e per cent., while the man who wants London, but that gentleman discovered that it was a to lend 1,000/., 2,000/., Sec., is taxed at a continually penal settlement—not because he was himself to be sent decreasing rate, till it ends in settling that beyond there for punishment — (A laugh) — a nd he refused to the tax of 25/. there shall be no increase of tax at accept of the Indian appointment , wort h something like all. This then I will proceed to mend. And tahbeou poort it man , I who will 4,0001. a year, and certainly no di s g race attached. lie not t o go i n a peddling then wrote again to the Irish Gov ernment, and the re- begin by reducing the payment a ofy hp stilt was that a member of the I rish bar was at this rno- has scra ether 50/., from twenty shillings to half-a-crown, ed to and I will force the rich to pay up at m of e , n a t e ß ri e n c g o , rd h e e r t o h f e P u e g n h a t n fi g v . e t H im e e h e a , d pl h a s ee d s the on stahteisflsecdtii.oane bench to Irish barristers, and ho had also had the setts- t e same rate, which I calculate will bring me within faction of being refused on every occasion. Indeed, he 300,000/. of my old receipts, and that difference lam could assure the lion. Gentleman that he laboured r s ea r, d l y u t s o .,, surrender to the concerned, as portion of my them; they u p under t a li great s t na i i h s e c r o u c e l p t t l i v o a n s i i f m p h o e s s i t h h l ( e ) u t g o h i t o rg that r he Tories of course grumbled a loud. The y stated —(A i latig was h out of his power .) lie had no piers- in distinct words, only not put t o g ether so closel y as Choy ti4 m of ud notl doingso, allow t h et i i f . he lad it to blet out from the memory of the moment all they did whether long or short, I shall do it, that the rich were the really poor,—that they were subject to a thousand risks and sufferings and all they suffered.—(A laugh.) At any rate, during of which the poor had no idea, and consequently the he would repeat his pledge to the Hon. Gentleman, business of a statesman and a Chancellor of the Ex his time at the ledian board, chequer was to consult the interests of the rich, and, wheeeter en epportimity occurred, would fulfil it mot lionestly.—(Hear, hear.) and see that they had the due allowance made them Mr. KEOGH said the question before the House Was in the rate of - taxation, which their unhappy stat,e. not as to the importunities of the Irish bar, with respect demanded. And when pushed by the Chancelloi: _if to which the Right H onoura bl e Gentleman had the Exchequer with the injustice of their princ,:p_le. been kind enough to raise a smile, but simply b e y on d their means of answering, they said, it, whether a statute having been passed prior then, we are to be subjected to an equality of taxa least to the Act of Union, which entitled the members tion in this matter, let us at all events have the of tho Irish bar to a share of the Indian patronage, e can of it;" and a Conservative 11\lember of known they had enjoyed that share ; and he took leave to think w -. . forward his amendment, that the rate activity pressed that the Right Hon. Gentleman had most distinctlyt o determine all the rest) should evadel that question. Certainly during the last quarter on 501. (which was crown to a shilling. In other of a century not one Irish barrister had held a judicial be reduced from hal -a a that if a system f fair 0 appointment in India with a salary of 8,0001. a-year. The word, the Tories move _ osed upon the rich, the extent fact undoubtedly was, that since the establishment of taxation was to be imp . d should be d X • the Br tish empire in India, and since the formation of to which it should be carrie,_. iminished in the Supreme Courts in the three presidencies, not more the proportion of 2 to 5. They woul agree, they than three members of the Irish bar had filled judicial virtually said, to so much of taxation as would leave appointments there, and those three had been appointed them at near l y their old payments ; but if the Chan between the years 1800 and 1825. He saw nothing ex- cellor of the exchequer ivianted to relieve the poor, traordivary pa the ;terms of the motion, and thought - • 23 53 -39 The House then adjourned, at half-pant Twelve. PARLIAMENTARYDIVISIONS. (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of COMMONS ) TUESDAY, APRIL 16. PAPER DUTY. Motion made, and Question put, " That whereas all taxes which directly impede the diffusion of knowledge are highly injurious to the public interest, and are most impolitic sources of revenue, this House is of opinion that such finan cial arrangements ought to be made as will enable Parlia ment to repeal the Excise Duty on Paper." The House divided : MINORITY-AYES, 89. Adair, R. A. Fox, W. J. Nugent, Lord Adair, Hugh E. Galway, Viscount O'Brien, Sir Lucius Alcock, Thomas Granby, Marquis of 0 Connor, Fearguis Baillie, H. J. Greenall, Gilbert I'echell, Sir G. Bennet, Philip Greene, John Pilkington, James Beresford, William Guernsey, Lord Portal, Melville Best, John Gwyn, Rowel Prime, Richard Blair, Stephen llall, Sir Benjamin Ricardo, J. L. Biewitt, Reginald Hustle, Alexander Roebuck, J. A. Boldero, 11. G. Hepworth, Lawrence Rushout, Captain Booth, Sir R. G. Hildyard, R. C. Sadlsir, John Bright, John Hill, Lord E. Salwey, Colonel Amen, Colonel Hodgson, W. N. Scholefleld, W. Chattcrton, Colonel Hope, 11. T. Seymer, Henry Her Cobden, R. Hume, Joseph Smith, John B. Cole, 11. A. Keating, Robert Stanford, J. F. Compton, 11. C. King, P. J. Stanley, E. H. Conelly, Thomas Lawless, Cecil Stuart, Lord D. CraWford, W. S. Lennox, Lord A. Stuart, John Devereux, J. T. Lennox, Lord II G. Thompson, Colonel Disraeli, B. Long, Walter Thompson, George Dod, J. W. Lushington, Charles Trelawny, J. S. Duncan, George Mackenzie, W. F. Vyse, 11. Duncombe, T. M'Gregor, John Waddington, H. S. Edwards, Henry Manners, Lord J. Walmsley, Sir J. Ellis, John Marshall, J. G. Williams, John Ewart, William _ Molesvrorth, Sir W. Wyld, James Fagan, William Mowatt, Francis Fellowes, E. Mullings. J. R. TELLII.II. Milner, Sir E. Mundy, William Gibson, T. M. Forbes, William Naas, Lord Cowan, Charles Abdy, Sir Thomas Aglionby, 11. A. Anson, Colonel Armstrong, Sir A. Bagshaw, John Barnes, M. T. Baring, Sir F. T. Baring, Thomas Bass, Thomas Bellew, B. M. Berkeley, Admiral Berkeley, C. L. G. Bernal, Ralph MAJORITY—NOES, 190. Fortescue, Chichester Morison, Sir W. Fortescue, J. W. Morris, David Fox, S. L. Mostyn, E. M. Freestun, Colonel Mulgrave, Earl Frewen, C. H. Norreys, Lord Goddard, A. L. Ogle, S. C. Goulburn, Henry Ord, William Grace, 0. D. Paget, Lord A. Greene, Thomas Paget, Lord C. Grenfell, C. Pascoe Paget, Lord G. Grenfell, Charles W. Pakington, Sir J. Grey, Sir Georgo Palmerston, Viscount Grosvenor, Earl Parker, John Guest, Sir J. Patton, J. W. Raiford, Sir Henry Peel,:Sir,Robert Hanmer,tSir John Peel, Frederick Harcourt, G. Perfect, R. Hardcastle, J. A. Pigott, Francis Harris, Richard Plowden, W. H. Hastie, Archibald Plumptre, J. P. llatchell, John Power, Nicholas Hawes, B. Itawdon, Colonel Hayes,;Sir E. Reid, Colonel Hayter, W. G. Rich, Henry Readlam, Thomas Homily, Colonel Ileald,yames Hominy, Sir John Heathcoat, John Russell, Lord John Ileneags, G. H. W. Russell, F. C. Henry, Alexander Rutherford, A. Herbert, li. A. Scrope, G. P. Herbert, Sydney Seymour, Lord Hobhouse, Sir John Shalto, R. D. Ilobhouse, T. B. Slaney, Robert A. Hodges, T. L. Smith, R. V. Hedges, T. Twisden Smith, J. A. Ilollond, Robert Somerville, Sir W. Hotham, Lord Spearman, H. J. Howard, Lord E. Stansfleld, W. R. C. Howard, C.W. Strickland, Sir G. Howard, I'. H. Stuart, Lord J. Inglis, Sir It. H. Stuart, H. Jervis, Sir John Talbot, J. 11. Johnstone, Sir J. Tancred, H. W. Jones, Captain 1 hicknesse, R. A. Keogh, William Thornely, T. Labouchere, Henry Tolicmache, F. J. Langston, J. 11. Townshend, Captain Lascelles, W. S. Tufnell, limey Lewis, George C: Vane, Lord H. Lindsay, Colonel Verney, Sir:ll. Littleton, E. R. Walter, John Locke, Joseph Watkins, Colonel Loveden, Pryse Wegg-Prosser, F. Lygon, General Wellesley, Lord C, Mackie, John Willcox, Brodie 3PNeill, Duncan Wilson, James M'Taggart, Sir J. Wilson, Matthew Mahon, Lord Wood, Sir Charles Mangles, R. D. Wrightson, W. B. Matheson, Colonel Wyvill, Marmadake Manic, Fox Milner, W. M. 31ilues, R. M. Mitchell, T. A. Monsen, William Blackall, S. W. Blake, Martin J. Blakemore, K. Bowles, Admiral Brockman, E. D. Brotherton, J. Browne, R. D. Busfeild, W. Campbell, W. F. Carter, John B. Chaplin, W. J. Childers, J. W. Clements, Charles Clerk Sir G. Clifford, H. M. Clive, Henry B. Cobbold, John C. Cockburn, A. J. Coke, E. K. Colebrooke, Sir T. Coles, Henry B. Cowper, W. F. Craig, Sir W. G. Crowder, It. B. Cubitt, William Dalrymple, Captain Davie, Sir 11. Dawson, T. V. Denison, J. E. D'Eyneourt, C. T. Drumianrig, Vis. Duff, George S. Duff, James Duke, Sir James Duncuft, John Dundas, Admiral Dundas, Sir David Ebrington, Lord Egerton, Sir I'. Elliot, J. E. Estcourt, J. B. B. Evans, J. Evans, William Evelyn, W. J. Farrer, James Fergus, John Ferguson, Sir R. Fitzpatrick, J. W. Foley, John 11. Fordyce, A. D. Forster, Mathew TZLLERS. inn, Lord Marcus Grey, Ralph W. PATRONAGE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF CONTROL. Motion made, and Question put, " That there be laid before this House a Return of all Persona in India receiving salaries, pensions, pay, profits, fees, emoluments, allowances, or grants of public money, by virtue of any direct or indirect nomination, recommendation, or appointment by the Presi dent of the Board of Control over the Affa i rs of India alone, or by virtue of any arrangement with the Board of Directors of the East India Company, and the dates of each such nomination, recommendation, or appointment respectively, from the Ist day of January, 1832, to the Ist day of March, 1850, excepting the Judges of the Superior Courts of Law in India; stating the total amount received by each individual in each year, and distinguishing the sources from which the payments are ma 'e." The House divided : MINORITY—AYES, 23. Ansley. Thomas C. Dundas, George Lawless, Cecil liass,%M. T. Miner, Sir E. Naas, Lord Best, John Greene, John Rawdon, Colonel Blake, M. J. Plalsey, T. I'. Schole field, William Cobbold, J. C. Rives, Sir E. Tenison, E. K. Cottony, Thomas henry, Alexander Dawson, T. V. Ilerbert, 11. A. MIAMI. Deverenx, John T. Keating, Robert Sadlcir, John Dick, Quintin King, V.A. Keogh, William MAJORITY-NOES, 53. Aglionby, 11. A. Grey, R. W. Palmerston, \is. Anson, Colonel Michell, John Parker, John Baring, Sir F. Hawes, Benjamin Pilkington, Jame Bellow, R. M. Hayter, W. G. Plowden, W. ii. Berkeley, 11. F. Ileneage, E. Power, Nicholas Berkeley, C. L. Ilobhouse, Sir John Rich, Henry Boyle, Colonel Hobhouse, T. B. Romilly, Sir John Brotherton, Joseph Hodges, T. L. Rutherford, A. Clements, Charles Howard, P. H. Seymour, Lord Craig, Sir W. G. Jervis, Sir John gomerville, Sir W. Bulldog, Admiral Labouchera, Henry Stuart, H. Bulldog, Sir David Lewis, G. C. Thicknesse, Ralph Elliot, John Loveden, Pry 50 Thompson, Colonel Evans, William Matheson, Colonel Tufnell, Henry Ferguson, Sir R. Maule, Fox Wilson, James Foley, J. H. Morgan, 11. K. Freeston, Colonel Mulgrave, Earl TELLKKII. Grenfell, Charles W. Ogle, S. C. Hill, Lord Marcus Grey, Sir G. Paget,:Lord A. Howard, Lord E. LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 17 , 1850. he might do it out of his own budget, and take the difference by some of the other taxes where the rich paid less and less in proportion to their riches. Under these circumstances, what did the men who are considered the popular leaders, and are to a great extent looked up to by you as such ? Did they come forward and say, here is the beginning of a great principle, where at last justice to the people has found its way into the mouth of a Chancellor• of the Ex chequer, and our prayer is that, not as little but as much as possible of the expenses of the country may be taken by thi s j us t p l an an d not b y the unjust.? Did they support and encourage the Chancellor of the Exchequer to carry out the scheme of justice which by some special interposition of Providence had been suggested to his mind, and toss to the winds the puling prayer of the Conservatives, that if they were to pay a just tax, it might at all events be a little one ? No ; they turned round on the Chancellor of the Exchequer and said, "It is clear that by joining with the Tories we can put you into a minority and defeat your plan." And they did it, and the plan of the Chancellor of the Exchequer for laying the taxes on the rich instead of the poor, was defeated, or at all events maimed and cut down, by the appearance of twenty of your so-called friends in the Tory rnsjority, with the effect of pro ducing a majority of 164 to 135 against the Minis ters who wanted to begin the removal of your most crying evil. And now see what they have done. Had they ac knowledged and supported the good work attempted to be begun, there might have been hopes that the principle would have soon been carried farther ; in deed it was quite clear it must. The Stamp Duties are of comparatively small amount; but there are huge masses of taxation in other places, to which this principle might have been applied, if what call them selves the popular leaders would only have allowed it. For instance, there is the Tea Duty, where every ounce of tea consumed by you and your families pays two, three, four, or five times as much in proportion to its coat price, as what is consumed by the rich and powerful. And the Tea Duty is the source of a large portion of the revenue ; which every man responsible for having a revenue or for not having it, must consequently handle with care. Suppose then the Chancellor of the Exchequer had thought of ever saying, "The Tea Duty is another instance of this enormous oppression on the poor, and lam willing to alter it. One step at a time is enough for any man, and the step I am prepared to take, is to equalize the duty on the poor man's tea and on the rich, to the extent of what will not dimi nish the total revenue by more than will leave me able to keep a balance on my books." Suppose that a Chancellor of the Exchequer should have been moved:in a dream or otherwise, to think of something of this kind,—and either something of this kind must be done by some Chancellor of the Exchequer, or you must remain paying four or five times over for your tea for ever. How would he be met by the first counsellor whose advice he asked ? He would be told, "No ; you cannot do that. If you try it, you will only be left without a Tea Duty, and the end will be the bringing in a Protectionist Minis try, who will replace the Tea D uty, and the other upon Corn. There are the leaders of the popular party ready to join the Tories, to blow you up the first time you touch duties of any kind in the way of reforming the rate of levying." Here, then, you stick fast. The present Govern ment would willingly relieve you from your injury in this matter, but what call themselves your leaders will not let them. By their distinct act and deed the Government is told, " Touch a fragment of the unjust taxation in the way of laying it on the rich instead of the poor, and we vote with the Protec tionists." Unless the Government has something beyond human in its virtue, you will hear no more of any attempt to shift the taxes to the rich, for your leaders will not tolerate it. And here comes into sight another danger ; for dangers are never single. Do you or do you not acknowledge at Bradford, that you are better, both rich and poor, for the licensing of your trade by al lowing your goods to be sold for food ? If you do, then every man of you who has formed an honest expectation of future advantage whether great or small, —from the rich man who may have framed the notion of making Bradford the metropolis of the West Riding, to the poor man whose views are limited to being able to save enough to place his little boy ap prentice in what he considers a better condition than his own,—may look forward to as much of danger as can arise out of the substitution of a Government pledged to undo what it is able, in the place of one that has removed your fetters. Such a change would not undo everything ; but it would undo much, and deep would be your regret if you had been as sistant in the process. And now the case is before you. I may be wrong ; but while in charge of any kind, I never will lead into the ditch with my eyes open, though all the world should call for it. It the verdict of your jury is against me, I am quite ready to be pointed at in the street, with " There goes the man that would not vote against the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he wanted to shift taxation to the rich." What the course of the Government will be, should be the object .f deep attention to all concerned. For the present, they only asked to report progres-, in other words to adjourn, for the purpose of considering their course. What the rich have at present established, is that they will consent to pay the same they did before, but the idea of paying anything more by the establish ment of an ad valorem rate where the poor are to pay the eighth part of what they do at present, they utterly scout and reject, and the popular leaders sup port them in it. Thus a great victory in favour of the people is cut down by the popular loaders going over to the enemy. If the public would pronounce, as the Spaniards call it, the thing might be reversed in some of the subsequent stages. But without it, it hardly can. The Committee is to resume on Monday the 22d. On Tuesday Mr. Milner Gibson proposed the re moval of the Excise duty on paper, in a most able speech, and was afterwards supported with equal ability by Mr. Roebuck. But of necessity the last ❑ight's proceedings told against them. Men cannot expect to cut down the Chancellor of the Exchequer in a bad cause one night, and cut him down in a good one the next. The leader of the Protectionists de clared his resolution to join; and it is certainly one thing to go over to the Protectionists, and a different thing to have them come over to us. The resolution, however, of the Member for Manchester was finally negatived by 190 against 89. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, AN OLD REFORMER. London, 17th April, 1850. RAILWAY SHARE MARKETS. BRISTOL, Amur , IG. STOCK EXCIIANGIL—Our share market was dull to-day, and prices are lower. The transactions were—Great Western, 4 , 3l.' 2 —Ditto, Quarters, 12% —Ditto, 171. Shares, 9 die.— Midland, 32. L IVERFOOL, Arum 16. STOCK ExciLsztott.—Business on our Stock Exchange was dull today, and prices had a tendency downwards. The transactions were as follow :—Lancashire and York shire, Consol., 3234 —Ditto, Halves, 15 3 ,4—Ditto, Fifths, 10X —Ditto, 32/. Shares, 13s. 9d. c. dis.—London and North- Western, 1004—Ditto, New Quarters, A dis.—Midl an d, 31V2-litto, Halves, 28 1 .4 die. South-Eastern and Dover, 121 t —Ditto, Consol. (No. 3), 12%—Ditto (No. 4), Regis tered, 41i—York, Newcastle, and Berwick (G. N. E. Pur chase), 6 per cent. till 1850, ijq dis.—Birkenhead, Lanca shire, and Cheshire, 18X dis. Great Western, 46 3 / 4 Manchester, Stafford, and Lincolnshire, 12 c.—North Union (B). 1641.",—North Staffordshire, 10% dis.—Sudbury and Cheshire (N.,W. M.), Preference, guaranteed ti per cent., 12 MANCHESTER, APRIL 16. STOCK EXCIIANGH.—A considerable amount of business has been done to-day, but prices are still depressed. The transactions were as follow :—East Lancashire. 6 9-16 n.— Edinburgh and Glasgow, 26%—Caledonian Preference, 5 1 ,4 East Anglian, Preference, 6 per cent. I—Lancashire and Yorkshire, 31—Ditto, Fifths, 10 3 4 dis.—Ditto (West Riding Union), 9 3 4 dis.—Ditto, Preference, 6 per cent., 11 1 4-- -Ditto (Preston and Wyre), 10%—Londen and North- Western, 100—Ditto, New Quarters, 2 dis.—Ditto, Man chester and Birmingham, Quarters (C) , p.—Blancheaer• Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, 12 Ditto, Preference, 6%7 Ditto, Grimsby (20/. Shares), 214—North Staffordshire, 104 dis.—South-Eastern and Dover„ 12% —Ditto, Thirds (No. 4), 4 s.l6—North Union (B), 164%. BIRMINGHAM, APRIL 16. M n. . MOCK EXCHANGE.—The share market co unu es ex tremely dull. The only transac tions to -day ware - Great Western, 48—Midland (New), 50. a in formed THE LIVERPOOL COUNTY C OU RT.—We are that no official i ntimation has yet been received at amongst the County Court, in reference to the appointment of censor to the vacant judgeship. We understand that the candidates, in addition to the gentlemen named in our last, are Mr. Ranashay and Mr. Thomas Stamford Raffles barristers-at -law, the latter being the son of the Rev. Dr. , Raffles. We believe that Mr. Raffles, whilst entering upon his candidature for the vacant office, with admirable feeling expressed his desire to witye all claim to preference, should o f the authorities lie between himself and h . the choice mend Mr. 131air.—[Since the above was in type, we have he .,,„ oen to understand that letters received in town yes i erdov announce officially the a l l s . i F i e mi b ntinent ot Mr. William I:Amsluty to the vacant past. the court will therefore b e a elieve the business of iy now t oce resumed, and that insol vents may consequent obtain renewal of protection.] Liropool Albiun. - Wurds are sometimes signs of ideas, and sometimes of the want of them.—Eriza Cook's Journal. A LARGE PlKE.—On Saturday last, Mr. John Eneck, mess -master of the Ist Life Guards, caught a pike in the Liver Thames, at Clewerpoint, near Windsor, weighing upwards of 221bs , it was a male fish, and in excellent con dition. [ADVERTISEMENT.I—A most miraculous Cure of a Bad Leg of Sixty Years' Duration by Holloway's Ointment and Pills.—Mr. Barker, of 5, Graham's-place, Drypool, at tke age of 18, had a breaking ou t on one of his legs, which ulti mately formed intd an ulcerous sore, and increased in severity until he was £0 years old, when it entirely took away his power of walking. At last, after seeking relief is vain for so many years, he had recourse to Holloway's ointment and pills, and these invaluable medicines have cured him so completely that he is now enabled to walk as well as most men of 50 years of age.—Sold by all Druggists, and at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, London,