The Sun. — London, England, 1851-04-16 00:00:00

i b 6 ;, Let will , rd 11' rtra„ll) G. 1v33 r'. , rf , l if we t-lolz thlt T. : , (tfe t Zr s . - J , (, fur ail hr• We should be responsible for a dreaniut th ec ' o f ,' r ,a war of races would cedainly take place in tpp,,,, 4 ciee, and we should be responsible for looking t , vntly „ ws governors and protectors, while in foe , ta e p,"„e contented spectators of a scene of inardcr revoltinDitg to the human mind.—(ilcar, hear.) ik,.'til3o2..ing this alternative, then, there a. red "a which he thought might very fairly carne t h h o e c o o t a hT hwith re.peet to it. They might consider the plan nt e t ‘:Ets ado,_ , ,t_ad by Lord tilenefg and the 17,,vc....n r, t kli °A Lord Melbourne, viz., that of end, abou.in, tt"etorte restrict than extend ' the frontier . of the colony, h treaties with the native tribes, in the hope to h. t-e Y would observe those treaties. This plan seemed tt, 1 , 478 been fairly tried. Those who had tried it had Of d 7 wish that they might succeed; but hitherto their e s had not been commensurate with the benevolence (gea r , e Pr°.iect or their desire to carry it into effect.— td ; , ptt ) Then there came lastly the plan which ha, been Si tt el h oo the advice of Sir B. D'Urban, Sir P. Maitland le* -,-ottinger, and Sir H. Smith, namely, that of ex -14,4g the frontier to the borders of a river where POet S ili a could be established to check the incurtons Ltd oi"ttuge tribe s t h at soug ht t o i n f es t th e co l on y, depi e ndeavouri ng b y t h e b es t system t h at cou ld b e ti te te l to keep t h em in obed i ence —hav i ng, at the same pi :Eittered through the colony a series of forts tios of security, In his (Lord John Russell's) opi t t was certainly the system which was after all the llimitcontistent with security on the one hand and hu t41,..,i; seenethe other.—(Hear, hear.) Io point d secu ktirdreed to him to promise better than the plan ricting the frontier, and in point of humanity he krtiuered better than leaving the native tribes to de tear.;:te by the sword which was the strongest.—(Hear, m a°tt Io Point, ther e f ore , b ot h o f se curity and hu - klo'p t !' t h,!% Ives the plan whi c h he should be inclined to Wh'ohi l3 nt*, at th e same ti me , as thi s was the plan 64tpeoet military, 1845, an d now i n 1851, had caused the ti movements, and all the expense attend ant soat ts e os e movements, it was quite right that the 1114,P Cotnroons should delegate to a Committee the tebi,;`, obtaining all the information they could on the Nee , t31 ( 1 of giving their opinion whether this was the 1 4; ”";.I°ll Government aught to pursue. He thought Na l " the Committee should approve of the th n ulliitherto adopted —always supposing, of course, / 1 14, c first thing to be done was to give Sir erc ah S i olith the reinforcements he required, in order 4 10 c hitu to meet the immediate danger—(Hear, frni---tiltere were persons in this country perfectly b ohl o e i liletit.‘elr intimate knowledge of the colony, to . 3 01 4 0 4: 0 ;; t s r l i a b tence with respect to making treaties yvith e the lttiool ,„ e,S, and arranging the mode in which . they e ,a l future with each other, and what their re d . gha t ii.,ugnt to be with respect both to the colony an Wit• t e ,Vtain. If the House should appoint a Com rslly ' t `''e views of the Government would, of course, be t it 41, 6 d to the members of that Committee; the ques- Ro y, witted to them would be considered ciispassi?n aad riot a great question which concerned the empire, , W ho ;1 43 % question which concerned either the person be 4 1 ‘ 4 at pr esent Governor of the co l ony , or the per ktto° at pres ent h e ld t h e sea l s o f th e Colonial De rilitte,4l4--(Elear, hear.) He was quite sure the Corn- Nth W°u ld spend their time far better in considering er the policy which had hitherto been adopted was 143, other Mae or not, and, if not, in suggesting whether cs. klld e could be adopted which was likely to be at e '4,th more benefit than in endeavouring to ascer "Pit th -oe t e er Sir H. Smith was wrong in this proclama tlitin4l that interview, or whether Lord Grey did ;', 33 seic t ree eiying with approbation the information that '4% laim. With this view, therefore, he moved ki;t:Mdraent of which he had given notice. The Corn- INa4,,,,ight coma to the opinion that instead of the /4 4 0 ' 4 the Government proposed, and instead ef % s epti t assistan ce to Si r H. Smith, as First Commissioner, commission should be sent to the colony, • tli r , -°ll . Gentleman (Mr. Adderley) proposed; but Ottl46Ritt would be premature to decide that in the „,1101emillacce• He th oug ht it would be better that the etik k ii-terials fo r j u d g i ng o f t h e mat t er thould be fairly titia ll ' et °re the C omm i ttee b e f o r e adopting that cog etttdro% The Noble Lord concluded by moving, as en t Z en t a i itt li: e l l e t b t e o Adderley's motion, " That a Select ()lilted to inquire into the relations be shi eountr ia y and the Kafir tribes on our South ketltfrontier " utios S RIT . II hoped he should escape one imputz ,74‘',.ch the Noble Lord had cast upon the Hon. 1 1 1), L°r Staffordshire, viz., that of treating this as a ; 3 1. 11entir: 88 ,tion, because he was undeniably impartial in (4 4 - h e ' both the motion and the amendment : — , -e ttr.) He objected to a commissioner being 3 i e, - 0 44 Proposed b the Hon. Member for Stafford 'listed -411 %e he could by help thinking that while there Netite.a. governor in the colony the appearance of a illegke7toner there would cripple his authority, and 'lon% 1 . 4 once his power over the settlers and his in oppoi Jsith the natives.—(Hear, hear.) He was equally t Zt ti tO the amendment of the Noble Lord, because Ant not conceive what course the Committee could th, e. that had not already been pursued by the Execu- NZS ll ear.) The Noble Lord said that they ought to tat . I tio the opinions of this or that Secretary of the tel l °lll eis, and consider the question with reference to the t i e t ' 4 t of the empire. t i a call before themßut whom could the Committee 1311 the but those very persons whose opi y were told to set aside?—(Hear, hear.) And Verilth.e Noble Lord said that there were various gen 1414,"tiltt this country who were capable of giving in to the Committee, he (Mr. V. Smith) looked te?crefor although he knew one or two gentlemen who 14saieglye information if they liked, yet it was by no I th: ) , Pateful task for any one to come forward and ",_%ta Cathia superior officer had failed, or that subordi tatei " e ", m isconducted himself. and, as there were no :ha% co mpelling them to come forward and give in ,,,,.ttenapt--641 he saw no good that would be derived from i t'' (Hear, hear.) He was confirmed in this II ."7 What took place last year in the Committee Ltlbs e e t il e l33 . 3 , _ and ordn-anceeshtiemates.. Then again he i f : .(l . auffi e l e ? .. gentl eTen could got in that House who 4Tvii ut !Y studied the maps of the Cape to be able rata re wn °Pinion as to where the frontier . line should ''(Hear.) It was almost impossible to sepa p"ral eLscussion of the resent question from the ghe oh-ek e elt ion brought forward the other night by t e s',tht e -e33l ber for Southwark; and, in his opinion, they o a Tot to be separated.—(Hear.) The truth was, .that l ic „waa a sample - ny (Hear.) Let them Just ,N 9 t(l 4 ; for a moment. If was true, as the Noble f 41 14▪ 1 - a eecc ed to admit, that the policy which had been ;1 ° , 4 , 4 6 %it s c e,o,i8osw as erroneous—or at all events un-' t hat poi , it surely followed that some great reversal ak of n „ Y should take place; and this was the opi k..; i . " 1,1 the best and wisest of the Governors of the la S4 Pottine ho in one of his dispatches kt riet W ptad be t le obiti th e o f o glad frontier.—(Hear, if were in his power to ro bs(' rd said tlimits hat the hear.) The genee out , we must protect the settlers who ts e l : t r a i.o eee..!°, this Cape under o_ eonwcouragement. To far was this to to rted? .. 7,t e hts was true; but h th,l 4 ord t h e _( ll . a . r, hear.) Were we always to continue far m .1 military protection, and they to afford th 11 ° 11 e? Because he could prove that in the i n t ' pr e aPe the colonists had all along 4 % I 14 for n i l. otect themselves , and had always been nn depended /. 4 „. ( afe _ nary protection, and always would do so Is ? (1 said :agave it to them.—(Hear.) v ie u tt:w as T,ltt the colonists had accumulated 1 04 . word, hil t the to that? T 4 h o e o o N , :0 1 7 He would a ' nswer in thelees,l, whirs : t he Noble Lord the Secretary for___ the C0e1,..13Y e 1 ,.. 13 Y the way, differed from the Noble Lord }'Drat k i .41.11:lister of the Crown. The Noble Lord the r re, c hter o t Iht ) t he Crown denounced every proposal . q te e oloe ent, and the withdrawal of the troops from otitish an the dismemberment of th d e . empire. Lord the with- Lltosl of neer c ontrary, was recomman /114 forces in all quarters if theiwnoghrladt. in my latoll.-eviellaISSELL—I referred to t , e ,/tr, hear.) up s ° l' th e e f • in continuation, said that the Secre -0 der e olonies wrote to the Australians that they role' surriel t htrnselves. The Governor of Australia tee c l t, wh e j Yon will not withdraw your forces froma b to Grey a there i 3 so much property to defend." (petty te P l e l€d, "If you have so large an amount of '`(ti e /i • Stn i t u aotne of it in defending the rest" He 9tti e i lr e h e • applied the same argument to the Cape. tm le % a t) (The Right Hon. Gentleman here k4 :er, to ale 3 extracts from the dispatches of Sir H. Pot 'hitk3terifiee°w the indisposition of the colonists e t a () make ss whi ek ._ . to defend themselves, and the r mansel.er in th°lattheY profited by the extravagant ot _ ese Ist wa r , 2,war was conducted.) The causes I ttlo- ll otie e r. a the causes of their long continuance_ e, fi t a .y d A e , 'Ted, th e but of this the House might rest pert* Caged they sc long as the wars were expensive, so long ttti l e ,...lne s ,P;°°o profitable to certain persona at the th e 41g then! e3e would means of promoting and e t` kt a ne He saw some gentlemen in us e found. bq t kitt ee, "uo had served en the Army Estimates tte e k haed er Tici he appealed to them t o sa y, h a d they th at tit evidence laid before that C omm itt ee t o 4 p.tilcainiss not hing was more difficult than t o c on trol it „t wha ri4 t, or to prevent people encouraging site„ w as profitable to themselves ? Now, qie -1 1 ees `,„7" 2- --01 which this country had striking. Ite7 a 4 ltid b e 7 e re necessary to a war, how careful should t - b 8 esteemll ° Meting upon such wars, especially wh en t i th e( ) War bered that so long as the expenses went , li kb e r a e wo uld be conti nue d! If they were to hav e te l ? th,th°lntnittee or a commission, he should like to le,, d etp eoi tioquire into the expenses of the late_ war, t. IP 4' t 4E4 131 t ° inquire into the charges of peculation N e 3 iss oed st the British army. If such a commission I ts 1 ' be E r as the Son. Member for Staffordshire pro e,e id not see how it could be rendered efficient ~ri l tios: es arY purposes. A commission, for example, ci r :ltl th adit accounts. He hoped that when his Hon. th te 1 , 3 . tho 9h:tinder-secretary for the Colonies rose to ttas o . 140 use on this subject ho would apply himseit t:::N r e -tt of the a.‘ l teci -443 of the question, and tell the House why • lki ti war had never been properly inres took, 6 ,i , 0b1e Lord at the head of the Govern • the' commando system in terms of disap te4lith'ie°ot, after all the results of the late war, Sir 4 4 , ' o 47 d . i tDeeessary to tall out the whole of the ki t e 41d0ftisefact, to order a levy en masse; k4uol o uld ask, was h ot that creating, by British sy:(10,71, 11 a s ystem almost id en ti ca l with the com b,. 1114'of operations? But such proceedings the 4; they; they had been repeated again and theafforded tee most irresistible proofs that ' o •`:r . our Government in that colony must be t t . 3 atr et : o he made this assertion under the influence 4tig.,e% witg,..pinion that Zagland never could have any he jiafirs. Wit were thought desirable— itt tit tiimar fr6co.sayi..pg so--but if it was for a mo ‘l'fonteg__ut of, that we biight to exterminate that race, ti ' p4 e eiffi e ;a l 3 t 'tleat the undertaking might prove muele than those who contemplated it at all anti- Ohe thing was certain, as he thought —that qt 4 wi t i' l v . ll , l d agree with the Kafirs, or live on terms of ,;',.cm. In support of this assertion he might in ..-xtembers to a work written, or at least pub ", is 37 by Mr. Boyce; and, however queetion- th e I , he ar. jarg i e 1 1 513 7 IreS eli ; rrieth. 1. - t r fo r. o sale THE SUN, ehle lire stitherliv rei'ht he neon other co in 1 , lie was ieed ease c h enel .1 at epeek as to tee eine aeterntwe the Kit:: coo:, and the nboatinahee practices tei v , ls oh they were a idicted. They ate one another; they be lieved in witchcraft, and aced on that belief; they openly practised perjury, arson, end rape. Further, it appeared that no progress had or could he made with such men in the work of civi lie, etien—neither by means of missionaries nor of mili tary. Long as our iniseiouaries had been there no con siderable proeress was made in spreading the influence of religion among them; with such savages, then, there was no hope of improvement. When the Noble Lord spoke of- extending oar frontier, he (Mr. V. Smith) could not help feeling that, as we had a governor at the Cape, there would be a constant attempt to extend the frontier, for governors were driven to that policy by all possible motives. In extending the frontier they felt that, generally speaking, they were quite safe so long as they had unbounded military re sources; and in most cases they might be said to poseess such resources, for the moment n ews re a ched this couns try of a British subject having been killed, the House of Commons—and very properly so—was prepared to incur any expense that might be ne cessar y for aven g ing the outrage. But, on the whole, he doubted whether this colony was entitled to all the protection and encou ragement which it seemed to claim; and he did not agree with the Hon. Member for Staffordshire, in the opinion which he expressed with regard to the convict question at the Cape; en the contrary, he thought that the inha bitants of the Cape ought to have been willing to take from us our reformed convicts. He would not press that point any further, but merely content himself in this place with adding, that he thought the Cape, at least, ought to support its own military. As to the more li mited question now before the House, he should only say, in conclusion, that it formed part of the great question which the Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark had already brought before the House, and that it must always be considered with reference to the whole of our colonial system. For the reasons, then, that he had stated, he should divide against both propositions. Mr. F. SCOTT said it had been truly stated that this question presented great difficulties, but, after the best consideration which ho could give to the subject, he felt that he ought to support the proposition of the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, as, at all events, better than the appointment of a commissioner. It ap peared to him that the reasons given by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite against tho appointment of a com missioner were quite conclusive; to appoint a commis sioner would be at once to supersede the Governor. In his opinion the Kafirs were such irreclaimable savages that they should be at once made aware that England, in defiance of them, was determined to retain its colony at the Cape, however great might be the cost of doing so. He should still be favourable to the appoint ment cf a committee, for there had been so many changes in the Colonial-office that investigation was desirable. There had been three propositions made upon this subject; one was that of the Hon Member for Staffordshire; another that of the Noble Lord; and a third that of the Member for Southwark; but the three propositions could really be resolved into two, namely, who was to pay for the war, and how the war had been caused ? The war had been to a great extent caused by our home policy; and it therefore was the duty of Parliament to investigate those causes, so as to prevent a repetition of such untoward events. In the course of the debate respecting Ceylon it had been said l i that the vote then proposed amounted to a direct censure on the Government, and he confessed it appeared to him that the motion of the Noble Lord was little less; with that view, he should support the motion, and he thanked the Noble Lord for so candidly bringing it forward. The conduct of the Government of Ceylon might be considered harsh and severe, but every one must admit that the ad ministration of the Government of South Africa must he regarded as having been in all respects conciliatory. The next object a hich he shoulu notice was the tenure of land in the colony. The Kafirs had a land question, like other native tribes, in a system of quit-rents which was established, and in limits to their holdings of land. It was a mistake to suppose that the payment of a sum of money was considered by them as an equivalent for the loss of the pomp, license, and authority' which they had been accustomed to hold. Another cause of dis pute was the boundary question. The Kafirs did not believe in the permanence of the present system, and that gave them such audacity in venturing into cur limits. He could not believe that Sir H. Smith, when the 'out break occurred, was well informed upon the state of feel ing among the natives. Up to the last moment he ap peared to believe that there was no serious cause for apprehending a breach of peace and tranquillity. He held in his hand a letter from an officer at the Caps, dated January 14, 1851, in which the writer said that Sir H. Smith had, for several weeks, been warned of what was going on, but to no effect. On the 25th of December 5,000 Kafirs fell upon the patrol set by Sir 11. Smith, and attacked them wholly unprepared. Cob Mackinnon chose to march his men with pieces not loaded, and the consequence was they had to fight their' way out of the defile at considerable loss. He (Mr. Scott) thought that to sacrifice the lives of officers and men by not having their muskets loaded evinced, on the part of Colonel Mackinnon, an unwarrantable laxity, and as great a disregard of the interests of his men as was possible. Another letter from the Cape stated that the burghers were very slow in coming forward, and if they did not take the field it was hard to say what the result would be. At present it seemed as if the war to be waged was very like a war of extermination. It was clear that our colonial policy had already involved the country in great expense, and that it was likely to lead us into further expense, unless a change of system was adopted. Mr. MACKINNON said it was very convenient to Hon. Gentlemen opposite to make the actions of Sir H. Smith and other officers at the Cape of Good Hope a cloak for their attacks upon the Colonial-office. It was no new thing in the history of civilization that the savage tribes did not amelgamate with the colonists. On the contrary, they by degrees receded until they disappeared from the bounds of humanity. This was the case in the West Indies and in the United States. In the case of the latter country, there was the certainty that in a few years the North American tribes would bo annihilated. Civilization was extending itself et the Cape, and con stant conflicts between civilization and barbarism there tor!, became inevitable. Our governors had extended their territory as far as they could, so as to make a neutral ground between the colonists and the natives. Tne colonists were increasing and extending their terri tory, and it was impossible to prevent conflicts between the advancing colonists and the retreating tribes. Sir H. Smith, under such circumstances, had shown great tact and prudence in settling the questions at issue be tween the colonists and the natives. It was out of his power to prevent the last o u tb rea k. I t w as not possible for the House to pass a judgment upon the conduct of the Governor unless they had the whole of his policy before them. A Select Committee o f i m p ar ti a l Members would be more likely to form a fair j u d gmen t than any other tribunal. Being satisfied that Sir H. Smith had shown himself to be a man of honour and humanity, as well as of superior powers cf mind, he should support the amendment of the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) Mr. GLA.DSTONE said the Hon. Member for Lym ingtoh had propounded, by way of solving the practical question before the House as regarded the Cape of Good Hope, a philosophical theory which might be very in genious and reasonable—that they were to regard the war that had occurred us one of the incidents of the con tact of civilization and barbarism. That might be very true; but the question then for them to consider would be, whether those incidents were capable of being im proved by prudent conduct on their part. It was enough for him if they took practical measures on this question; at the same time he agreed with those who had spoken that the more they separated this question from the in culpation of individuals the better, because the matter was so difficult, and the blame, he believed, must be di vided among so many, and the House itself must come in for its full share, that it would be unprofitable to con sider how that blame should be shared. As to himself, he should be content if they could establish against the Cape any claim for bearing part of the expenies of this war. If the Government could effect that object they would deserve well of the country, but what ho was most anxious about was that they should remember that the future was in some degree in their power, and that they should not commit themselves as to the future by any act of indiscretion, or by any omission it was their duty to fulfil. He was indeed very much in the same predica ment as the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Nor thampton. He did not agree with one proposal or the other. As to the appointment of a commissioner, he thought the Right Hon. Gentleman had stated all that could be said; but as to the appointment of a Committee, he thought that all the objections to a Parliamentary Committee for the examination of a colonial question had especial force in this instance. The effect of such a Committee would be to hang up the question, and stop the discussion of it probably for two sessions of Parlia ment.—(Hear, hear.) The Committee must necessarily be composed of gentlemen having many other avocations. They would examine such witnesses as would be ready to their hand; they would find it necessary to send for witnesses from the Cape to give them further informa tion; those witnesses wou l d not arrive until next . session; then there would be the old story , over again, and . the House would be in great good fortune if they obtained the report in the session of 1852, or oven of 1853. But it was objectionable at all times t o sto p for a long time the . discussion of public questions—(Hear)—and regard to a question of this kind it was objectionable in a ten fold degree. At that moment the House and the country were smarting under the sense that there was somethin g wrong in the policy that led to these continued and suc cessive wars, and so long as they suffered from that smart, and felt that the mischief was pressing and urgent, there was some hope of the attention of the House being profitably directed to the subject.—(Hear, hear.) But let this war pass aw a y an d t h e it em s for it appear no longer in the estimates, and they would be met on all occasions when any practical reformation was attempted with declarations that they were about to dismember the empire, and the spirit o f p atr i ot i sm an d , f ree d om wou ld be again invoked, and tho discussion would be a waste of time.—(Ffear, hear.) But a Committee was a bad in strument fur the examination of this question.—(Hear, hear.) He had long been impress e d w i t h t h e conv i c ti on , from his acquaintance with colonial a ff a i rs , t h at Govern ment in the colonies themselves was the only Govern ment that could be satisfactory, and sound, and health ful, when the colonists were in a legitimate and normal position as freemen cf our own care. But if th e y were to have a Government in this country, lot it b e the, Queen's Government.—(Hear, hear.) It would only in crease the mischief to leave the Government with that House. The Secretary of State was a responsible officer —he had means of infortnation which the House had not, and he was always acting under a sense of respon sibility. They could not find fifteen gentlemen in that hoase who would hive the came advantages for govern ing as the Secretary of State; and if he looked at the conduct of committees on colonial questions he could not I say he was satisfied with the result. They had heard LONDON. enmethiog ebont Ceylon, but he did not think the cha r2' Liiat ".I:,ti tO5. I 1 Wts tiy :he tsH , go _. iii statese ef the Ceylon Committee —(Lien', hear.) Tee history of tao Cape question afforded another instance'. The Noble Lord had recounted instences of the faquie of their policy. The strongest measures ever adopted by the executive Government of this country as to the Cape were in the time of Lord Gleneig, in censequesete of the report of a Committee of that House. A Committee was appointed to examine our relations with the Katirs in 18e5. It sat during 1836. On that Committee he (Mr. Gladstone) sat with Sir F. Buxton, who ha believed was the chairman, and he never saw a Member of Par liament discharge his duty with greater zeal or energy, or with a more complete command of the subject; and yet what was the result? A total change oF policy was recommended. It had proved a failure, and the wars since that period had been more ruinous and bloody than before.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.") But he had a greater objection still to a Committee. It was a stop in the wrong sense and in the wrong direction. It was impossible to devise in this country any satisfac tory system of adjusting the relations with the Kafir tribes.—(Bear, hear.) It must be done by men on the spot. He did not say it could be done in a moment. The consequences of the unfortunate steps taken in former times were not so easily retrieved. They must endure much before they could work things round for the future. Bat let them not take a step in the wrong direction. This was clear—there could be no new do mestic authority in England to give a sanction to the management of the affairs of the frontier. He objected to the management being in Downing-street; but he ob jected still more to its being vested in a Committee of that House. If they felt now their responsibility as to the expense of the war which had arisen when the Se cretary of State had managed the relations of the colony, would they not be tenfold more responsible if they ap pointed a Committee to determine on those relations and the system of managing them, and war were to break out while that system was in operation?—(Hear.) Those were his objections to the appointment of a Committee; but, as he had said, he was not prepared to propose any remedy of a' domestic character.—(Hear, hear.) He was persuaded that one great object of their policy ought to be, as cautiously as they would, but as speedily as they could,, to carry on the management of this whole matter by the colonists themselves.—(Hear, hear.) He agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Northampton that that was a principle of the utmost importance, and they could not separate it altogether from the consideration of any particular case. The main principle on which he voted against the appoint ment of a Committee was the anxiety he felt to avoid any system that could give a fresh Parliamentary sanction to the mischievous and unsound system of the management of the local affairs of a colony from home.—(Hear.) These wars with barbarians on the frontier were local affairs; and if they asked him why he was so anxious to throw on the colony the burden of managing these wars, he begged they would not suppose it was entirely, or even mainly, on account of great public economy , which he believed, however, would result from that policy. He was ndt ashamed to say that, saving public honour, no duty was, more incumbent on that House than the maintenance of public economy.—(Hear, hear.) It was not for them, as the representatives of the people, and whose special duty it was to tax the people, and to see that they were not taxed more than the exigencies of the empire called for, to be ashamed to propound the principles of economy—(Hear, hear)—but he felt that there was a much higher printiiple in this matter. Ii was not only for economy they ought to give to these people the management of their own affairs, and leave them to arrange their relations with the aboriginal tribes in the colony, but to get back to the old system of colo nial policy—that system under which they ruled the old American colonies. The colonists there did not ask them to maintain their wars with the Indian tribes. The real question was not one of- economy. It was this, how the plague and scourge of war could be best kept down? He was convinced that could not be done unless the whole community to be exposed to the war was responsible for the expense. The burdens of war, were they as unmiti gated evil? No. They were a providential correction, imposed on mankind to check their disposition to quarrels and warfare. What would this country be if we had some unlimited fund belerging to other people, and not to us, upon which we might draw at pleasure to pay the ex penses of wars in which we might be engaged? He trusted that even in such a case our mural sense would restrain us; but it required to be backed up by other considerations, and the monstrous expense of war was a providential check to restrain the fury of men, and to render them less disposed to war. How was this war at the Cape carried on ? He might say by the most scan delous extraveeance; he was atraid he might go further, end say by the most scandalous corruption--(bear)—for he was afraid there was public authority for saying that peculation and corruption had disgraced this war. Did they think it cost the Americans in their wars with the Indians 1,500,0001. at a time? Were those wars dis graced by corruption and peculation? Nol because the responsibility was placed on those most interested in them. The only parties who could settle or adjust these mat ters were these who were directly interested in them. Those were the persons on whom the burden ought to lie. As for the proposition of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark, he had a difficulty in agreeing to any abstract proposition asserting what they ought to do as to colonial government, but when they had a prat:- tical question before them, if they did not assert their principle in a theorectic form, let them act on the right principle according to the principles that had arisen. They had a case of that kind then before them. The ques tion was, whether or not they were really to endeavour to fix on the colonists the responsibility of governing the colony. He knew of only one objection to that system. and it was this :—Appeals might be made to their hu manity, and it might be said, " You are not going to expose these colonists to the fury of barbarous tribes." He did not know how that matter really stood, nor did he believe that any information he could get in that House would tell him whether it was true that these colonists were not able to defend themselves from the barbarians. He himself had a shrewd suspicion that they were; and, if they were not, in case of need this country would be ready to help them; but what we had to do, meantime. was to require them to do all they themselves multi for themselves, and to help them in this by throwing upon them, to the utmost possible extent, the responsibility of managing their own affairs. He protested against the doctrine that the normal system of colonization was what was phrased the preparing colonies for freedom.—(Hear, hear.) It seemed to be taken for granted by many of our statesmen that the proper mode of proceeding, when you founded colonies, was to deal with them as you deal with children; first putting them into long clothes, then into short clothes, and by and by (after careful consideration) breeching them. You mast found colonies in freedom if you mean them to be really free.—(Hear, hear.) By founding colonies in political servitude you displace all the social elements; you teach the colonists to place reliance where they ought not to place it; you create a governing class; you crests a sense of dependence upon the mother country for purposes which the colonists themselves ought to fulfil; and, above all, you create a great military ex penditure; and you hold out a direct premium for war, because the more wars there are the greater military expearliture there is—the greater the profit to be made out of it by those concerned.—(Hear, hear.) Let the House beware how it accorded its sanction to any such mischievous, wasteful, and demoralizing principles of colonisation as these—(Bear, hear)—let it, by means of the Executive Government, and the agents of the Exe cutive Gevernment at the Cape, endow the colony, as soon as possible, with entire liberty as to local adminis tration, throw upon it the responsibility of managing its own affair.; and its own relations, including those with the Kafir tribes, always with the distinct understanding that the mother country would be ready to interpose her powerful arm in case of actual need. Do this, and there need be no fear of dismemberment of the empire.— (Hear, hear.) As to dismemberment of the empire, let him point out to the House that we had not at this moment any colonies more attached to the mother country than were the whole of the American colonies prior to the outbreak of the revolution, yet there was not one of these colonies but must have felt insulted by ' so miserable a bribe being held out to it as military ex penditure, or an army to defend it from the savages on its frontiers. Lord MANDEVILLE rose, not so much to answer whet the Right Hon. Gentleman said, as because, having been in the colony, he might state what would be of use to the House.—(Eiear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gen tl,man said there would be no use in appointing a Com mittee. There was a Cammittee now sitting on steam ;navigation, yet no doubt there were members of the Government who had information on that subject. Be sides, the Committee had the advantage of being at a distance from the scene of action, and, consequently re moved from the party strifes and disputes which would bias the judgment of persons in the place.—(Hear, hear.) `.Cho Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to speak as if the 'colony wished for war. There might have been persons, certain contractors, who, derived a profit frum it, wished for it; but the colony itself suffered too much to wish :for war.—(Elear, hear.) The lion. Member for South )vark stated that the wars were caused by our encroach flientr. The reverse was the ease—the war was caused by Kafir depredations. The , war of 1846 was ,been by the murder of De Lange, whose cattle had ,i!heen stolen after the Fingoe who watched them had been killed. The Boer was shot when he attempted 'to overtake the depredators, and the war, he believed, was caused by the dissensions consequent on the re fusal of the Ketirs to give up the offenders. The lion. Baronet had a very erroneous impression as to the length of our frontier. It could not be much more than a tenth part of what the Hon. Gentleman had stated to be threatened.—(Hear, hear.) The whole Orange River frontier was thinly inhabited by people whenever a ttacked us. The Orange River sovereignty, he wou ld observe, was taken on account of the boors, not of the Kafir§ ; the only part on which were Kafirs was be tween the Wintenberg and the sea. The whole of Natal was surrounded by Zoolahs, not Kafirs. There were none in any part of i 4 These Zoolalas were per fectly peaceable, as had been stated by the Right Hon. the Under-Secretary. The Hon. Member for Stafford shire, in the same breath that he affirmed that not a month was to be lost, recommended a commissioner to be sent out. This appeared to be simply a contradic tion in terms.—(hear.) Tho Committee itself could decide whether a commissioner was desirable, and, meantime, far better than a local commissioner, provide a constitution, and decide what portion of the expense ,should be paid by the colony. The Hon. Member for NorthaMpton talked of boors in the Kat River. Why the whole population there were Hottentots.—(Hear, hear.) Appoint a Committee, and the Government, no doubt, wcuid be ready to lay all the papers before it, ;and there would be found plenty of people in England ) able and wiaing to give information on the subject. Colonel THOIIPSON had heard no answer to the allegation of the /lon. MoVer that there had been dis tinct breaches of treaty, to which were to be referred the first origin of this war. On the other hand, circum stances had been mentioned which bore out that allega- WEDNESDAY lion;' thsre hal ;wee semsthieg ineeitione:l .Jett putting ate ihot, neon tee neck ef a chief; shut would have aeon call La l Sandiili proposed to put his foot upon the neck of the Governor ? Tee Howie ha l beard, too, about a brass-headed stick, under circumstances pre senting a very near approximation to a certain hat by which one Geseler. once upon a time involved hinieelf and his principals in a consideralile difficulty, He (Col. Thomp;on)•lred, both in Africa and Asia, seen evidence net to treat seini•barbarians with justice was the sure key to their attacarneut and good faith.—(Hear, hear.) The question was, who had applied the match to this train? Gunpowder, everybody knew, was explosive, and so wore the Kafirs.—(Hear, and laughter,) He wanted to know who it was that had fired the train, and so begun the mischief? It would be quite sufficient for the House to say that in case of need it would pro tect our fellow-subjects in that part of the world from being overwhelmed; but as to any proposition that we would couquer all that portion of the African continent, and thrust back and back the irreclaimable savages whom we ourselves had wantonly insulted and injured, let the House take heed how it sanctioned any such thing, for be sure the retribution of Providence that ever, throughout the world's history, had, sooner or later, punished injustice, would, sooner or later, punish that injustice also.—(Hear, hear.) Sir E. N. BUXTON was rejoiced to bear this asser tion of the right of the aborigines of Africa. There was ample ground for considering that very great en croachments had been made on the lands of the natives, especially on those of the Kefirs, who, a fierce, warlike people, had done that which it might have been expected they would do in resistance of the aggression. We had already been encroaching and encroaching, in Southern Africa, until our empire there exceeded in extent the extent of Great Britain. He denied that the policy of Lord Gle nelg had totally failed; on the contrary, it was the de parture from the Noble Lord's policy which had occa sioned all this mischief. Lord Glenelg's policy, as laid down for the guidance of Sir Benjamin D'Urban, was— " a systematic and persevering adherence to justice, con ciliation, forbearance, and the honest arts by conciliation may be advanced, and Christianity diffused among the people." Had that policy been adhered to the result would have been totally different from those now un happily before the House. Ho was of opinion that it might be dangerous to place the affairs of the colony wholly in the hands of the colonists. The colonists, no doubt, might be able to defend themselves, but he was afraid it would be by means wholly dis tasteful to the Christian feelings of this country, by bloodshed, devastation, and the final extermination of the native tribes. The real cause of these hostilities was described in the words of Lord Glenelg, with relation to the conflicts of the colonists with the natives in Australia —" The real causes of these hostilities are to be found in a course of petty encroachments and acts of injustice committed by the new settlers, at first submitted to by the natives, and not sufficiently checked in the outset by the leaders of the colonists."—(Hear, hear.) The only right course open to the Government was a return to the policy of Lord Glenelg.—()near.) Mr. ROEBUCK said that much had been said about justice and humanity, and the necessity of adhering, as between our colonists and tbo savage tribes by whom they were surrounded, to the same principles which re gulated the relations between nations of equal civiliza tion, the Honourable Gentleman, in common with every body else, blinding himself to the leading fact that in all these cases we, of necessity, began with that which in the abstract, and upon general principles, was gross injustice. What had we done in Kafraria? Why, we had begun with taking away people's land from them, and then Honourable Gentlemen got up in the House and said, " Oh, you must follow oat the principles of justice in this cese." The real question was, injustice having been done, whether there was no thing to justify the injustice? He, for one, affirmed that there was. Take America, discovered in its islands by Columbus. in its continent by Cabot; take it at the time it was so discovered, and ask yourselves what was the amount of human happiness which that vast continent then contained?—(Hear, hear.) Compare it, as it then was, not with what it is now, but with what it is in its splendid expectations—weigh its past mischiefs, great, enormous, overwhelinning as they were—terrible as the conquests of Cortez, direful as those of Pizarro, cruel as those of the Puritans of Massachusetts, miserable as the devastations of Virginia;--compare all this with that ex hibition which its wide-spread plains now present—the developments of modern science, the myriads of popula tion, the progress of human happiness and well being; —weigh these two even together, though sorrowing, you could not but accept the' one for the sake of the other. Why should he blind himself to the consequences? Did not the history of the colonies tell him that the mo ment the white man, and mere especially the Anglo- Saxon, placed his foot by the side of the brown native, wherever he might be found, whether in North America, in South Australia, in New Zea land, or in South Africa, the inferior man vanished before him? and the only question was between the long agony of pretended justice and the immediate expulsion of the aborigines. Let there not, then, be any false modesty or false philanthropy about this question.—(A. laugh.) We were going to expel the natives for the ex press purpose, and it was a false, hypocritical pretence, to say that we were going to do anything else. Let the House take the case of any one of our colonies—begin ning with Massachusetts, for example. That was a very religious colony. They were a pure people, who went out to cultivate the vineyard 'of the Lord according to their own peculiar views. What did they do? Why, one morning they rose up, and they said they were about to smite the heathen hip and thigh, and to draw the sword of the Lord and of Gideon. And they did draw the sword, and did smite them hip and thigh, and alto gether exterminated the natives. That was what they did, and they did it in the name of the Lord! Take Massachusetts now, and what was it as compared with the state in which the colonists found it? As he said at first, he accepted the difference. He mourned over the intervening circumstances; but he did say that it was im possible to avoid the consequences. He wanted to apply this practically. We had no business in Kafraria, except upon the understanding that we were about to plant there a people of higher intelligence. It was impossible to bring the degraded heathen up to that state of civilization at which the white man had arrived. The native would vanish before the face of the white_ man. The mode in which we had commenced our colonization proved that we believed such to be the case. We found in Kafraria a body of mon who lived by hunting —whose Modes of life required a vast expanse of territory. We took that seizing the most f e rtile spots. territory, and began by What could the natives do? Nature told them what to do—to fight, to oppose cunning to force, artifice to know ledge; and cunning and artifice sank before knowledge and force. Then came poor Sir Harry Smith, and talked asif these people had committed some dire offence against morality when they rose against his dominion; and the Hon. Baronet (Sir E. Buxton) asked them to do unto others as they would be done to. But suppose the Honourable Barone: were a Hottentot, or member for Kafraria, would ho then apply the golden rule? Or, suppose the Hottentots came to England, and seized it, and some brown Sir Harry Smith were to begin talking about his tender mercies, would the Honaurable Gentle man think that ho militated against morality by putting a musket ball through him? Why, he would think that he was doing a patriotic thing, and that his paint) would he held up to future ages as a !kciltiades, a The , miatocles, a Wallace, or any other patriot. But to re turn; having begun with a gross act of injustice, by dispossessing the country, he yet said that if they were enabled to introduce a large body o f E ng li s h co l on i sts there he was quite prepared t o go the whole length of the conef quences; but it was a n utter pretence to talk , of honesty, in the ordinary same of the term, of justice, or humanity. They ought not to tnix up this matter with the question of the colonization of the Cape of Good Hope, because British Kafraria was in no way connected with the Cape colony, British Kafraria was a large tract of te rritor y telten possession of by the British Government, into which they had sent soldiers, but no colonists. The Katirs had risen, because they thought that a gross injustice had been done theen They were right so doing, and we could on ly p u t them down by force. Those men had steeled their hearts with the deepe s t s en , e of injury. W e h a d de prived them of that which was dearest to them. The lands over which they had been used to roam in quest of the means of subsistence we had taken from them. We had circumscribed their means of living, and could it be wondered at that they should rise against us? We had planted in their nation military colonies, and we were about to destroy them as a people. He wished English men to understand that we wore about to introchrce among a people rather more than usually populous for the extent of territory an English power with the ulterior object of placing there English colonists. English co lonists could not be placed there without the inevitable consequence of annihilating Cie aborigines. That was what had been done in N ew Zealand, in Australia, in North America, in all our colonies, and that was what would be done in South Africa if the p resent syetf m were continued. Toil the colonists—" We will pl ant you here; wo will protect you from aggression again s t the great nations of the earth; seaward, you shall b e safe; against the aborigines you must protect your selves." What would be the consequence? A militia would be at once formed; we should march into, the midst of the country and plant a town; an insurrection would arise; we should put down the Ksfire; punish ment would follow; we should dispossess them of their land, and the poor wretches would be driven back and exterminated. That was when had been done in Massa chusetts, in Virginia, in New York. The coloni sts had put down a gallant and chivalrous race—a race war lik e, and possessed of many high qualities. We had dispos sessed them, and where now, h e would ask, w as t h e North American Indian? He lived in history—h e was unknown in fact—and scarcely in the whole range east of the Mississippi could be found one single nation of the aborigines that was not like a wandering tribe of Gipsi • •es —all their high chivalry gone—all their claims as a na tion melted away. They had become the subjects of ro mance. In their most cherished r esting-places the axe of the Anglo-Saxon had cut down and crushed the vast forests through which they had been wont to wander, and their hunting-grounds had become the seats of art, of civilization, and of human happiness in a diffe rent form.—(Hear, hear.) This made all the difference, and this, he said again, we must face, if we intended to extend the present system to South Africa, As regarded the proposition of the Noble Lord, he looked upon it as a complete abdication of the power of the Government. He (Mr. Roebuck) could put a meaning upon it, because he could suppose a Government eo weak and so inca pable of governing as to be glad of any excuse for get ting rid of a difficulty. A responsible Colonial Govern ment shrouded itself under the miserable subterfuge of a Select Committee, and in the mean time money was to be spent, war and slaughter were to be perpetrated, artd the great name of England was perhaps to be prostituted. Time was when the Noble Lord would have said, had such a proposition been made to him, " Do you think we are going to abrogate our infections as a Go'vern ment ?" But he said to the Noble Lord, if he were ;wil ling to abrogate the functions of the Colonial-offiee.to a kirENING. APRIL 16, Select Committee, let 1,7:e sbeeeete the fa:seticn 3 1-1 a Government alogelter, and confess he was so weak as to be unable to control what belonged to Eug laud.— (Hear, hear.) The Ministry was responsible for the government of the country. That House was not to take upon itself the administration of affairs, but was to stand separate and was to be the j u d ge i n the last resort over the Administration. Lot n o t t h e H ouse then cede to a Committee 0: their own body those junctions of go"ern meat which the Noble Lord and his colleagues truly held, but did not adorn.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down, following to some ex tent the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Ossoed University, but greatly exaggerating his views, had ex pressed his surprise that the Government should have proposed, to appoint a Select Committee to consider a very grave ana important point connected with the colo nial policy of this country. He (Mr. Labouchere) must say that he was astonished that such an argument should have been employed by two Gentlemen so well acquainted with the history of our colonies. He remembered, in the case of Canada, at the time of a very interesting crisis in the affairs of that colony, that Mr. Huskisson, a Co lonial Minister not of small repute, acting under no-less a person than the Duke of Wellington, asked the House to appoint a Select Committee to consider the whole affairs of Canada. He (Hr. Labouchere,), though then a young Member, served upon that Committee, and he well remembered what their proceedings and recommendations were. He believed that they were some of the most important recommenda tions that had ever been made. They pointed out an entire change of our policy with regard to Ca nada. Those recommendations had been to a great extent acted upon by that and successive Governments, and in his conscience he believed that to them iu a great measure we owed it that we still retained Canada as a colony of this country.—(Hear, hear.) A similar course was adopted on perhaps the most difficult and important colonial question that it had ever fallen to the lot of . a Government to deal with—h e mean t th e condition of the slave population in the West Indies. The whole course of legislation with regard to slavery in those ,. colonies was the fruit o f th e anx i ous i nvest i ga ti ons of that Committee. Sl a v e emanc i pat i on was us h ere d in, supported, and, in fact, carried by the authority of that Committee.—(Hear, hear.) Again. the same course had been pursued with reference to the apprenticeship ques tion, when the Colonial Secretary—a man not wanting in firmness and energy—Lord Stanley, he believed—did not think he was lowering the authority of his office by asking for a Select Committee. Unless they said, then, that the affairs of the colonies were to be ieft entirely to the Colonial-office, without any care or solicitude on the part of the House, ho did not see what reflection there could be upon the Government for asking from time to time, as occasion required, for the assistance of Select Committees to consider important political questions.—(Hear, hear.) Again, in the case of the Cape, some ef the many courses of policy with re ference to the treatment of those aborigines had been recommended by a Committee of the House of Commons of which hs believed the Right Hon. Gentleman (Hr. Gladstone) had been himself a member. The Right Hon. Gentleman had argued as if the only danger to be apprehended at the Cape of Good Hope was that the white population might be overwhelmed by the coloured population; but the Committee of which the Right Hon. Gentleman was a member took a very different view of the subject. He (Mr. Labouchere) believed that if the white population were left to themselves in that colony, without any assistance from this country, al though they might at first be exposed to danger from the natives, and there might be scenes of bloodshed and de vss'a i in,the ultimate danger was that the ex tereninaron of the aborigines would ensue. That was the view taken by the Right lion. Gentleman opposite as a member of the Committee. [Mr. GLADSTONE—No, I opposed it.] If that were so, he (Mr. Labouchere) must admit that the personal argument, so far as the Right Honourable Gentlemen was concerned, tell to the ground; but he was entitled at least to claim the authority of fte ma jority of the Committee as in favour of such opinion. The whole tenour of the report of the Committee of 1837 was this—that it was the special and sacred duty of the Government, and the Parliament to exercise their authority wherever British colonies were planted in juxtaposition with great masses of aboriginal inhabitants, to prevent the frightful conse (pences that must ensue from allowing the passions of the white and black population torbe excited and arrayed against each other, thus leading to dreadful scenes of carnage and desolation. Ile begged to remind Hon. Gentlemen what were the questions really before them. The Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Aclderley) had pro posed that Commissioners should be sent out to the Cape of Good Hope. He (Mr. Labouchere) thought the general sense of the House was against that proposition. —(Hear, hear.) He considered, that if the Governor and the other chief officers of that colony deserved the confidence of the Government, they were at least as much to be depended on as any Commissioners who could be sent out to make inquiries —(Hear, hear)—and the necessary effect of sending out Commissioners would be to weaken the authority of the Governor and other official persons at a moment when it was of the utmost importance that their authority should be strengthened and upheld in every possible way. The other proposal before them was that of his Noble Friend (Lord J. Russell), that a Committee of that House should be appointed to consider the whole of the complicated and difficult question connected with the relations be tween this country and the tribes on our South African frontier. The Government had been charged with en deavouring to evade responsibility in making this propo sal, but they in no degree shook off responsibility in requesting the aid of a Committee, not to consider what measures were requisite to meet an urgent and instant state of things, for that was the duty of the Executive Government, but to consider deliberately, and to report to the House, what should be the fixed and settled po licy of this country with regard to the question of the Cape frontier. That was no more a subject peculiarly, and solely, and exclusively belonging to the Executive Government, than were the questions relating to Canada in 1837, or the questions as to the West Indian slavery, with regard to which Committees of that House had been appointed; and he thought it was a subject upon which the Government, without giving up the least por tion of that responsibility which attached to them, might justly and properly ask for a Committee to assist and give weight to their deliberations. These were the grounds on which the Government proposed the am. pointment of a Committee. He thought them its suffi cient and complete as those upon which the appointment of any similar Committee had ever been demanded, and he hoped the House would not refuse to aid and encou rage the Government in the course they had pursued by consenting to the amendment of his Noble Friend. Mr. HUME had never heard a speech in that House more at variance with facts than that of the Right Hun. Gentleman—(A laugh)—who seemed to forget that the whole policy of the Government towards the colonies had, within the last few years, undergone a change. Instead of keeping up the system of governinte in Down ing -street, the desire now was to git rid of the colonies, and to allow them to govern themselves.—(Laughter, and Hear, hear.) After the debate a few nights ago on the motion of his Hon. Friend (Sir W. Molesworth), a newspaper of great influence charged all those who ad vocated the opinions of the Hon. Baronet with a desire to separate the colonies from England, and so far to weaken this country; but the object of the policy ad vocated by the Hon. Baronet and by himself was to render the colonies better affected and more devoted towards England then they were now, to relieve this country from the expense of maintaining them, and to enable them to conduct their own affairs, which they could do much more satisfactorily to themselves than it could be done for them in Downing-street. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mir. Labouchere) called upon the House to take care of the white population in the colonies; but the white population, who were the best judges of the ratter, had no fear of any danger, for they asked to be allowed to manage their own local affairs. The colonists said, "We have perfect con fidence; we believe the disturbances and wars which have taken place were wars of aggression; we believe the natives will observe treaties, and that we can conduct our relations with them with perfect security." Why, there was a penalty attending severity and oppres sion towards the natives. In such,,e. case the natives would revolt ; it would be necessary to resort to coercion; coercion entailed expense, and that expense would snake the colonists very cautious how they entered upon wars. He had boon informed within a month past by gentle men from the Cape of Good Hope that the colonists apprehended no difficulty if they were allowed to manage their own affairs, and that they were prepared to under take the task. The colonists were not answerable for the measures of the colonial governor appointed by this country, and it would be hard and creel to call upon them to defray the expense of a war in which they were not involved. The Noble Lord bad said that the colonists had never been ready to give cordial assistance to the Government of this country. [Lord J. Russell was understood to express his dissent.] He certainly under stood the Noble Lord to say that there had been a want of cordiality at the Cape of Good Hope in supporting the measures necessary f or su pp ress i ng th e aggression; but why should the colonists afford assistance to the Government when th e y h a d b e e n treated like so many cattle, an d h a d never h a d anything . to do with their own government ? He thought it was now in the power of the Hous© th t i o s country p evil for the future, for there were Good Hope, who had come here to settle l delegates from the mass of the people m of u t c h h e te C r a m n s e fo o r f b s ody of the a constitution as would unite the me th a . s e s slave -trade four months without anything being d co lonists, but they had been allowe.dwhtnooenreemaiin,hheerneigfohrt question on Gentleman wa s Lard Stanley said, I will Cone miitee. Quite the reverse. not carried i e a d s throughked b y ' tee." and he Commit .s.brought not be regulated by any out his own plan upon but that w - as not ' Ceylon Committee might be cited,but to expose to his own responsibility. The appoint a Committee ; it give advice to the Government, abuses which the Minister denied. Tie home) hoped the to Hous© would net agree would be shelving- the question for a twelvemonth or But a Commission to / be sent out . was required more. The first thine was to and would he of great use. Let the b form a responsible Government. Commissioners go out and stand between the aborigines and the colonists, and see ma tters properly arranged. — (!lsar.) Why should the Government deter giving responsible govern ment, and throwing on the colony the duty of its own defence as soon as the war c o ul d be concluded? We s ould not refuse to the colonists that which we had pledged ourselves to give them, and which wou l d secure their cordial co-operation, and unite them in repressing e aression.—(Hear.) 'Mr. J. BELL could not:allow the remarks of the lion. and Learned Member (Mr. Roebuck) to pass without 30000 notice, as it might be supposed that the House ac quiesced in principles ut variance with morality, honour, ' and Christianity.—(Hear, hear.) That gentleman laid ' it down that it was proper to "do evil that good might h d come," and he was ready to justify injustice, and held 1851. that, heceuee we were civilised and Christians, it was justifiabl e for es to take possession of land we had not paid for, aed exterminate the people there. Bat who was to be the judge which parties were the most civilized ? (lleer, hear.) We might say that certain cottagers in a rural district were lees civilized and et ucated than, our selves, end go and take possession of their village.— (Hear, hear.) If it were impossible to obtain foreign possessions by other means it would be better to remain without them than obtain them at the price of blood. —(Cases of " Hear, hoar.") Eut it was well known that those aborigines were ready to SJI their land at a moderate price—(A laugh)--that they were qu it e o p en to terms of capitulatiea---(A laugh) — an d t h at t h ere were other means of eivilzation.—(Hear, hear.) There were principles of honour among savages. B u t w h a t ever might be the fact with regard to their disposition, nothing could justify that bloodthirsty and rapacious spirit which appeared to be recommended by the Hon. and Learned Meaiber for Sheffield (Mr. Roebuck). Mr. S. HERBERT was placed, like some other Mem bers, in a situation of difficulty in reference to the pro positions before the House. The precedents cited by the President of the Board of Trade did not appear appli cable. He had quoted Mr. H u el e i ss on's Committee upoa Canada, but the object of that Committee was quite dis tinct from that moved for by the Noble Lord. That inquire into a C omm itt ee soug h t f or b y t h e co l ony to into alleged g r i evances , th e G overnment b e i ng , as it were, impeached. Then there was the Committee upon the apprenticeship question—a singularly infelicitous precedent to quote, for the House reversed the decision of the Committee, and got rid of apprenticeship.—(Hear, bear.) A Committee appointed by the Government did not offer much hope of a solution of our difficulties. The Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire had said that the country was governed by speeches. There must be something intelligible in these. [A MEMBER—Not always : ]—(A . laugh.) W e ll, mot i ons were somet i mes not so intelligible as they might b e , an d th e N o bl e L or d' s was not. A Committee was to b e appo i nte d on t h e same principle as that on official sa l ar i es; and the Noble Lord put the report in the fire.---(Hear, hear.) W as thi s a case (without reference to precedents) which would justify the appointment of a Committee? A war was going on; it was necessary that the Executive at the Cape should be unshackled by any doubts as to the in tentions of the home Government—(He ar , h ear)—and should have clear instructions or an unfetter e d di scret i on. —(Hear.) Of the two propositions a commissi on ap peared more rational than a Committee. A commis ' sioner would be on the spot and could tell wh a t was going on. With a Committee portions of the evidence would be filtering out, and the Governor would be doubt ful how he was to proceed, as one or another view seemed to prevail.—(Hear, hear.) The President of the Board of Trade said a governor w as as good as a commissioner; he might have gone further, and said that a Govern ment was as gcod as a Committee.—(Hear, hear) He (Mr. S. Herbe rt ) s h ou ld vote aga i ns t an y proposition of the kind now made to the House. Mr. BOOKER was for fair play. Ministers deserved the encouragement of the House in this matter, and should have his vote.—(H ear , h ear. ) T hey h a d s h own becoming vigour and manli ness i n a t tempt i ng to main tain our great colonial empi re , an d he was not go i ng to refuse a Committee when they asked for it in this emer gency.—(Hear, hear.) The state of the Cape was a question of vast difficulty, and the Government had done all they could, in sending out an officer of great ability, who ought to enjoy the confidence of the House. Mr. lIAWES said he would occupy the House for a very few moments, while he called their attention to the observations of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. S. Her bert), who seemed to think some great evil would hap pen to the colony by the plan his Noble Friend had pro posed, and that the policy to bo pursued for terminating the war would be thereby impaired. But he had note informed the House how that result was to follow from the appointment of tile Committee. The Government desired to inform the gentlemen on the Committee fully and entirely with respect to their past policy, but that House was not the best place to communicate it in. He was not without grounds for saying so, for when the Noble Lard addressed theta with a full statement of his policy, there was hardly a House present, and some . of the snort distinguished speakers were absent. The pohey pursued had not been en exterminating policy, as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman said, but one which would lay the foundations for a great colony hereafter. No doubt our early colonization was marked by the extinc tion of native races, but it did not follow the same result should take place now; and in New Zealand the temper, ' justice, and ability of the Governor had proved that co lonization could progress along with the preservation and civilization of the natives. He earnestly hoped the House would do justice to the Government, and give them an opportunity of laying before a Committee all the information in their power, to prove what had been the policy misrepresented by Hon. Gentlemen opposite. Mr. ADDERLEY replied, he was surprised the Hon. Gentleman (Sir. Hawes), after the experience of the last two years, should be in favour of a Seleet Com mittee. As to Sir Harry Smith, he wished to state he intended no reflection whatever on him, for a more gallant and experienced officer did not exist, but he re garded him and Lord Grey as exponents of a system. A commissioner could do many things that could not be done by a Committee. For instance, make treaties with chiefs and wind up affairs on the spot. The House then divided on Mr. Adderley's and the numbers were— Ayes ••• Noes ..•• Majority • • ••• ••• 59 ... ... 129 ••• .. • -70 Lord J. Russell's ar - aendmont then became the main question, and, the House being divided on it, the num bers were— Ayes .. Noes... .. ... ... 128 ... ... 60 Maj6rity --63 Mr. HEADLAM moved for a Select Committee to consider the policy of extending the law of mortmain, so as to include personal estate, and generally to con sider whether any alteration should be made in the law as it affects testamentary or other dispensations in favour of religions, charitable, or permanent objects. The Hon. Member explained, that his object was not to legislate with respect to any particular portion of the community, but to supply a defect in the law, end he pledged himself, if the Committee should be appointed, to introduce a practical measarp. Mr. J. O'CONNELL expressed his gratification at the Hon. Member's declaration thst his intended legis lation would not be directed against the Catholics in particular. The motion was then agreed to. Lord U. VANE moved for and obtained leave to bring in a Bill for abolishing the fees paid to county and other coroners, and for providing for the payment of such co roners by salaries. The Small Tenements Rating Act Amendment Bill passed through Committee. The Assessed Taxes Act,, the Timber and Coine Dtp. ties Act, and the resolutions of the Committee of Supply were severally reported. The Exchequer-bills (17,756,6000 Bill, and the In deinnity Bill, as amended, wore severally considered. The House adjourned at One o'clock till Monday, the 28th inst. COURT CIRCULAR. His Royal Highness Prince Albert presided, yester day afternoon, at a meeting of the Royal Commission for the promotion of the Exiiihition in 1851, of the works of indwitry of all =ions. His Royal Highness arrived at the Exhibition-building in Hyde--park at three o'clock, attended by Lieutenant- Colonel lion. C. B. Phipps, Celanai Hon. Charles Grey, and Lieutenant-Colonel lion. Alexander Gordon. The Commissioners present were E,:rl-Granville, Lord Overstoue, the Right Hon. ll,uiry Labouchere, M.P., the Right Hon. William E. Gladston2, &LP., Sir Richard WEstin3cott, Sir Charles Lyell, Sir Charles L. Eastlake, Mr. Bazley, Mr. Cobden, M.P., Mr. Cabitt, Mr. John Gott, Mr. Puaey, M.P., Mr. John ShepKerd (chairman of the East India Company), and Mr. Hopkins (presi dent of the Geological society). Mr. Scott Russell and Sir Stafford Nothcote, secreta ries to the Royal Commission, and Mr. Bowring , actin g secretary, ;vete in attendance. Colonel Reid, chairman of the Executive Committee, Colonpl Lloyd, speeial Commissioner, and Dr. Lyon Playfair, special Commissioner, were also present. The meeting broke up at half-past five o'clock, at which hour the Queen arrived to insprct the Exhibi t i on. Her Majesty was accomptalied by tour R o y a l High nessey. the Princess Royal and the Princess Alice, and wns attended by the Marchioness of 1.):uro, Lady in Waiting, and Colonel Buckley, Equerry in Waiting. Colonel Reid, Chairman of the Executi ve C ommittee. received the Queen on alighting from h er carriage, and attended her Majesty and Prince Albert during their in spection of the woiks of scalpture anti other o bj ects of interest in the Exhibition, Her Majesty and Plitlee Albert t oo k th e i r d e parture 'a little before seven o'clock Palace. and return e d to Buckingham His Royal Highness Princ3 Albert, attended by Lieu tenant-Colonel Hen, A. Gordon, rode out on horseback yesterday morning. His Royal Hghness the Prince of Wales, attended by Mr. Birch, took a drive in an open carriage yesterday. Her Royal Highness the Princess Royal and the younger members of the Royal Family took their accus tomed exercise yesterday. Her Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince Albert, attended by the Marchioness of Douro, Colonel Buck ley, and Lieut.-Colonel the Hon. A. Gordon, It isited her Royal Highness the Duchess of Gloucester, yesterday evening ' at Gloucester House. Lord Byron has relieved the Earl of Listowel in his duties as Lord in Waiting to the Queen; and Captain the lion. Joseph Denman (Royal Navy) has relieved Lieu tenant-General Sir Edward Bowater in his duties es Groom in Waiting to her Majesty. A deputation on Smithfield Market had an interview, yesterday, with Sir George Grey, at the Home-office. The deputation consisted of Sir James Duke, M.P., Mr. Masterman, M.P., Mr.. i. L. Taylor, Lir. John Dixon, Mr. Richard TaylUt;- M.N.Depety 11.1t.s,„Mr, J. H. Mall, Mr. Dskin, and the eity.Rmeiribrafider.. Mr. Pressiy had an interview With . ther , Chancellor of tho Exchequer, ye s terday, a t his official - fresidence, in Downing -street. A deputation, consisting of Mr. Sanders,' M.P., Mr. Cherry, and Mr. Worship (Committee of Health Bill), had an interview with Lord Seyuiour, yesterday, at the office of her IStisje:.•ty!s Conimiseioners of Woods and Fe rests, in Whitehall-place.; ELOPEMENT.—We hate to record an elopement this week; the gentleman from Althorp, the lady from the Burringham side 9 c the Trent. The partien were married at Hull, which is a kind -of Gretna-green for all runaway matches from Lincolnshire. In this case, it is said, steps will be taken to try the validity of marriages thus solemnised. They have been of ,uch frequent occurrence lately, that both the Atchbishop of York and the Bishop of Lincoln have been applied to for their interference to cheek the Hull clergy.— Yorkshire Gazette. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. (From the Vacs and Proceedings of Lq.e Howc of Comvurns ) TUESDAY, APRIL 15. KAFIR TRIBES. _ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That an humble Address be presented to her Majesty, praying that she will be graciously pleased to appoint one or more Commissioners, wile instructions to proceed to South Africa, to inquire and report as to the best mode of adjusting the relations between this Country and the Kafir Tribes ; and also, of determining the engagements entered into by her Majesty's High Cora m6sioner in his settlement of the extended territory :" Amendment proposed, to leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the relations between this Country and the Kafir and other Tribes on our South African Frontier," instead thereof:—Question put, " That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question." The House divided : MINORITY-AYES, 59. Arkwright, George Gaskell, J. M. Palmer, Robert Raißic, H. J. Gladstone, W. E. Repton, G. W. J. Bankes, George Goold, Wyndham Roebuck, J. A. Beckett, William Greene, John Scully, Francis Burghley, Lord Guernsey, Lord Seymer, H. K. Cardwell, Edward Halsey, T. P. Spooner, Richard Carew, W. P. Hamilton, Lord C. Stafford, AugastuS Child, Smith Herbert, Sidney Stanley, E. H. Christopher, R. A. Hornby, John Stuart, H. Cocks, T. S. Hume, 3. Sturt, H. G. Deedes, W. Keating Robert Sutton, J. H. Disraeli, B. Lockhart, W. 'Urquhart, David Duckworth, Sir J. Manners, Lord G. Vesey, Thomas Dundas, George Meux, Sir Henry Vyse, R. H. Dunne, Colonel Miles, P. W. S. Wakley, Thomas East, Sir J. Monsell, William Wegg-Prosser, F. Edwards, Henry Movvatt, Francis Williams, W. Evelyn, William J. Naas, Lord Filmer, Sir E. Noel, Gerald J. imams. Fox, W. J. O'Connell, John Molesworth,Sir W. Fuller, A. E. O'Connell, M. J. Adderley, C. B. MAJORITY-NOE S, 129. Adair, Hugh E. Evans, John Morris, David Adair, It. Shafto Ewart, William Mulgrave, Earl Aglionby, H. Fitzwilliam, G. W. Norreys, Lord Anson, Colonel Forster, Matthew Norreys, Sir D. Anson, Viscount Ferteseue, Chichester Ord, W. Anstey, T. C. Fortescue, J. W. Paget, Lord A. Bagshaw, John Freestun, Colonel Paget, Lord Claret:WO Baines, M. T. Geach, Charles Palmerston Via. Baring. Sir F. Glyn, G. C. Parker, John Bell, Jacob Goddard, A. L. Pinney, Willi am Bellew, it. M. Greaten, C. Pascoe Plowden, W. a. Berkeley, Henry F. Grenfell, Charles W. Price, Sir Robert Berkeley, C. L. Greyy Sir G. Pusey, Philip Bernal, Ralph Grey, Ralph W. Rawdon, Colonel Best, John Hall, Sir B. Rice, E. It. Bethel!, Richard Ilardcastle, J. A. Rich, Henry Birch, Sir T. Hawes, Benj. Romilly, Colonel Booker, T. W. Headlam, T. E. Rumbold, C. E. Boyle, Colon& Heald, James Russell, Lord J. Brocklehurst, John Heywood, James Russell, E. Brotherton, Joseph Ilindley.Charles Banbury, E. H. Ilobhouse, T. B. Butler, P. S. Howard, Lord E. Smith, J. A. S S h ey er m id o an ur , Buxton, Sir E. Howard, C. W. G. Somerville. Sir W. Carter, J. B. Iloward,:E. G. Spearman, H. J. BLoß rd B. Cavendish. G. 11. Jocelyn, Viscount Stanford, J. F. Chaplin,kW. J. Kershaw, James Stanton, W. S. Clay, James Labouchere, Henry Tcnison, E. K. Clay, Sir W. ' Lawley, B. R. Thompson, Colonel Cockburn, Sir A. Lewis, G. C. Thornely, Thomas Coke, Edward K. Locke, Joseph Towneley, John Collins, William Mackinnon, W. A. Townley, R. G. Cowper, W. F. Zl'Gregor, John Townsheud, Captain Craig, Sir W. G. Mahon. O'Gorman Vane, Lord H. Crowder, It. B. Mandeville, Viscount Willcox, Brodie Dawson, T. V. Marsh.ll, J. G. Williamson, Sir 11. D'Evncourt, C. T. Marshall,ffllliana ; Wilson, James Matheson, Colonel Douglas, Sir C. Wilson, Matthew Duncan, George Maule, Fox Wood, Sir CharleS Dundas, Admiral Melgund, Viscount W oa d. sir W. P. Dundas, Sir D. Miluoi, It. Id. Wyvill, M. Ebrington, Viscount Mitchell, T. A. TELLFAII, Ellice, F., jun. Moody, C. A. llayter, W. G. Ellis, John Morison, Sir V. Hill, Lord M. Words added :—Main Question, as amended, put. The House MAJORITY—AYES, 128. Adair, Hugh E. Evans, J. Mulgrave, Earl Adair, It. A. Ewan, William liorreys, Lord Aglionby, H. A. Fitawilliam, G. W. Norreys, Sir D. Anson, Colonel Forster, :Matthew Ord, William Anson, Viscount Fortescue, Chichester Paget, Lord A. Anstey, Thomas Fortescue, J. W. Paget, Lord C. Bagshaw, John Freestun, Colonel Palmerston, Vie. ilaines, M. T. Geach, Charles Parker, John Baring, Sir F. T. Glyn, G. C. Pinney, .W. Bell, Jacob Goddard, A. L. Plowden, W. H. Bellew, R. M. Grenfell, C. Pascoe Price, Sir It. Berkeley, C. L. G. Grenfell, Charles W. Pussy, P. Bernal, Ralph Grey, Sir George Rawdon, Colonel Best, John Grey,:R. W. Rice, E. R. Bethel', Richard Hall, Sir B. Rich, Henry Birch, Sir T. liardeastle, J. A. Itomilly, Colonel Looker, T. W. Ilawe3, B. lttunbold, C. E. Boyle, Colonel Ileadlam, T. E. Russell, Lord John Brocklehurst, J. Heald, James Russell, Edward S. Brotherton, J. Heywood, James Seymour, H. IR Banbury, E. H. Hindley, C. Sheridan, It. B. Butler, P. S. liohliouse, T. B. Smith, John Abel Buxton, Sir E. Howard, Lord E. Somerville, Sir W. Carter, J. B. Howard, C. W. G. Spearman, 11. J. Cavendish, G. 11. Howard, E. G. Stanton, W. H. Chaplin, W. J. Jocelyn, Viscount Tenison, Edward K. Clay, James, Kershaw, James Thompson, Colonel Clay, Sir W. Labouchere, 11. Thornely, T. Cobbold, J. C. Lawley, B. It. Towneley, John Cockburn, Sir A. Lewis, G. C. Townley, B.G. Coke, lion. E. K. Locke, Joseph Townshend, Capt. Collins, William Mackinnon, W. A. Vane, Lord H. Cowper, W. F. M'Gregor, John Willcox, Brodie Craig. Sir W. G. Mahon, O'Gorman Williams, W. Crowder, R. B. Mandeville, Viscount Williamson, Sir H. Dawson, T. V. Marshall, J. - G. Wilson, James D'Eyncourt, T. Marshall, W. Wilson, Matthew Douglas, Sir C. Matheson, Colonel Wood, Sir Charles Duncan, George Mettle, Fos Wood, Sir W. P. Hundes, Admiral Melgund, Viscount Wyvill,lMarmaduke Dundas, Sir David Manes, R. M. Ebrington, Lord Mitchell, T. A. Ellice, Edward, jun. Morison, Sir W. i Ellis, John Morris, David TELLERS. Hayter, W. G. MU, Lord Marne ItINORITY-NOES, €oi Arkwright, George Gaskell, J. M. O'Connell, M. J. Rutin% H. J. Gladstone, W. E. Palmer, Robert Bankes, G. Goold, Wnydham Repton, G. W. Beckett, W. Greene, Joha Roebuck, J. A. Burghley, Lord Guernsey, Lord Scully, Francis rardwell, Edward Halsey, T. P. Seymer, 11. K. Carew, W. H. P. Hamilton, Lord C.' Spooner, It. Child, smith Herbert, Sidney Stafford, AugaStal Christopher, R. Ilornby, John Stanford, J. F. Cocks. T. S. Hume, Joseph Stanley, E. H. Deedcs, W. , Keating Robert Duckworth, Sir J. Lockhart W. Manners, Lord G. Sturt, Henry G. Sutton, II M. Dundas, George Dunne, Colonel East, Sir J. Edwards, 11. Evelyn, IV. J. Filmer, Sir E. Fox, W. J. Fuller, A. E. Meux, Sir 11. Urquhart, David Miles, Philip W. S. Vesey, Hon. T. Monsell, William Vyse, R. R. R. H. Moody, C. A. Walley, T. Mowatt, Francis Wegg-Prosser, F. Naas, Lord TELLXILS. Noel, G. J. Molesworth, Sir W. O'Connell, John Adderley, C. B. TO THE SECRETARY OF THE BRADFORD REFORM ASSOCIATION. (EVERY MONDAY AND WEDNESDAY.) Sir,--On Monday the 14th, the Assessed Taxes and. Timber and Coffee Duties Acts were considered in Com mittee. Most important principles were developed and laid down on the part of tho Government, which the commercial and industrial community must, as I have said before, be insane, if they do not view as indisput able reasons why they should defend the existing Go vernment as the apple of their eye. On the question of the House Tax, there was of course the usual array, of people not liking to pay taxes. It is impossible to quarrel with the expression of this feeling; but we in turn must not 'be quarrelled with for saying, there jo! higher consideration for tho s e w ho a re capable of enter 's taming it. Und er t h e ex i s ti ng conv iction that the re must to must and will be taxes, a reasonable object, 1 addition to paying as litt!e as e , shifteda c a n , the get the taxes that are to great and small. at a time, is good policy in things wrong way to the right; and to do one thing E x chequer said, was would be very pleasant to my Now what the Chancellor of the this, " I have no doubt it eo off the Window-tax and put ..c.ec..a order that I . may I must have House -tae, patients, that I should set a nothing in its stead. of tax. in Coffee-tax and the Timber twahkiechoffisseaehgotoadxeeforems the , u_if h• h are bad ones. ' which every man and sprinkarg of free trade notions, ought to tax, which '- boy with a support him. As before , let us have one thi ng at once . L ge t the taxes shifted from b a d to good, while the wntdubslows that Way; end th en t h e question of keeping d ow n the best taxation to a m i n i mum, will come in due order under the op ei eration of the checks for that end provided. The alterations in the Coffee duties, brought out from a young Member a curious resurrection of what we used to hear at Corn -law meetings; and we have a fair warn irr, of what it is the Protectionists would give us. He surnmcd up all the disadvantages of bail climate, bad soil, and long voyage, which attend the procuring of coffee from Ceylon, and pressed it on the wondering House as the reason why we should volunteer to pay for the dearer coffee. On Tuesday was a lively debate on the Kafir War-- the play of Hamlet with the part of Hamlet omitted. Everybody talked of all imaginable Kafir wars except the present; the great point for concealment and non observation being, where the present Kafir war came i t em. The cry of " irreclaimable savages" must have reminded the 11011E0 of Bo:es story of the cook maid, who runs at a strange cat with a red-hot iron, exclaim ing, " (J. that is one of the most dcceitfullest creatures that is." The speech of the Member for Sheffield will he nuts for the Aborigines Protection Society; only they must not make the mistake the House did, in taking it seriously. It is on record that some worthy soul read Swift's " Advice to Servants," and said there were many things in it he thought extremely objectienable, and regretted a clergyman of the Mtab listimeut should have set his hand to such opinions. The Member for Sheffield should have carried his sober sarcasm further, by asking how irresistible it would be, if the foreigners expected in this country, should declare that the grand injustice was in coming at all, and after that, it was pseudo-philanthropy . and Exeter-hall hypocrisy to make objections to the conae quences. Everybody knebe the foreigners came here by virtue of their improved acquaintance with the social relations of man, and in pursuit of the greatest happi ness Valle)] was to result from establishing them. Every body knew, that whatever abstinence might be professed acame for all our goods, and it was folly tot first,saythey theyshould not have them. We might lament over the " prolonged agony" of the process, but the true way was to keep our eyes fixed on the happiness which was to be the result. It might be too, that the invaders were Angio-Saxuns ; and the rule is, that what the Anglo-Saxon can, ho takes. There should be no halting half-way iu a good juke. The House, on rising, adjourned till Monday, 28th I am, Sir, yours very sincerely, AN OLD REFORMER• London, April 16, 1851. 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