The Sun. — London, England, 1851-05-06 00:00:00

THE NAVY. The following letter has been published in explanation of a supplementary estimate of 6,5001. for the retirement of naval officers:— (Confidential.) Admiralty, April 29. I dm commanded by the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty to communicate to you, for the information of the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, that the present state of the navy list has engaged the serious at tention of the Lords of the Admiralty. At the termination of the war in 1815 the number of officers of different ranks was necessarily very large, and this number was greatly increased by the promotions made in that 'yea r in consideration of the services of those who had been employed during a long and arduous contest. The active list was thus swelled far beyond the re quirements of the country during peace, and the evils resulting have continued to affect the service most in juriously. Different Boards of Admiralty have from time to time taken measures calculated to mitigate these evils; but the eondition of the navy list, in their opinion, still re. quires material amendment. The Lords of the Admiralty have therefore considered it their duty to give their best attention to this important subject, in the hope of effecting some arrangement which m ay tend to the benefit of the service, and at the same time secure to the public a gradual reduction of the heavy charge of half-pay. To effect these objects, the Lords of the Admiralty feel it absolutely necessary to reduce the active list to an amount more commensurate with the requirements of the country, by diminishing the number retained on that list and removing to permanent half-pay those who have become unfit for employment. Their Lordships will have to deal with the wishes and feelings of a large body of old and deserving officers, b u t i n the proposals which they are about to lay before the Treasury, they have endeavoured carefully to preserve to every officer all to which he has a just claim. The number of admirals is at present fixed at 150, exclusive of admirals of the fleet. Their Lordships propose that the number should be reduced to 99, exclusive of admirals of the fleet; of these 99, 21 to be admirals, 2 7 vic e-admirals, and 51 rear-admirals. They propose that this reduction should be effected 1. By removing to p ermanent half-pay those now on the active list who, under the Order in Council of 30th June, 1827, have not served for their flag. The Lords of the Tr easur y are aware that previous to the Commission appointed in 1838, and whose report is dated 26th March, 1840, these officers were placed on a retired list, but that in consequence of an opinion ex pressed by that Commission the r names wer e t ransferred to the activ e list. From that time, howe ver , to t hi s no officer has been employed who has not served for his flag. The Committee of the House of Commons of 1848 recommended that these officers should be removed from the active list; and the Lords of the Admiralty are of opinion that this step is absolutely necessary if any re duction is to be effected in the number of admirals. Under present regulations these officers rise in rank according to seniority, receiving no addition to their half-pay as rear-admirals. Their Lordships consider it but just that they should retain this advantage, and rise in rank as if they had remained on the active list. 2. By the creation of 10 retired service pensions of 150/. each, to be awarded to flag officers on the active list who are either above 70 years of age or are physi cally incapable of further service. These pensions not to be held in addition to the good service pension. Such officers to be placed on the retired list, and the vacancies occasioned by death to be filled up from the active list. Their Lordships make this proposal in the confidence that the Treasury and Parliament will not withhold their sanction to an expense of 1,500/. a year, by which an lion , urable retirement will he secured to old or worn out officers who have actively served iheir -- country. This expense, however, small as it i s , th e i r L or d s hi ps do not propose should be permanent. The honorary com mand of General of Marines will not be filled up when the present interest shall terminate, and their Lordships consider that the sum which then will fall in may fairly bs cirried to the payment of those pensions. By these arrangements the number of admirals will be reduced to 99, or to within one of that number. C APTAIN 9. The number of captains wag fixed by the retirement o, 1846 at " not exceeding 500;" but the number of 500 is not now complete, the full number not having been filled up, in contemplation of some new arrangement. My Lords propo.e that the number of captains on the active list should be fixed at 350. I❑ fixing this number their Lordships secure to officers of captain's rank more conti❑uous active employment than under the present system, while the rise of a captain to the rank of ad miral will be more rapid than it can be when the number of captains is larger. It is proposed that the reduction of 350 shall be ef fected— 1. As vacancies occur in the active list of flag officers the captain first in seniority, who has served for his flag, will be promoted (reserving her Majesty's un doubted right of selection). Those captains who rise to their flag, and who have not served, will be placed on p.rmanent half-pay, rising in rank as at present, but with the half-pay of rear-admirals. 2. By keeping open the retirement of 1846 to the number of 200, until the list of captains be reduced to 350. The retired list then to be diminished by only re tiring one in •Rro vacancies until it be reduced to 100, and by permitting captains who are above 55 years of age, and who have been on the captain's list for 10 years, to be eligible for retirement. 3. By observing the rule of promotion as it is now in force, of one in three, until the number is reduced to 350. 4. By abandoning the system of brevet promotions. Without this, their Lordships feel that no regulations can be effective, either in reducing the number or re• taining that number when once reached. It is in vain to observe strict rules for a time, if the whole result is to be swept away at once by a large promotion. At the same time their Lordships are aware that brevets afford the opportunity of meeting the claims of old officers who have served long and well, and who seek their promotion rather as the reward of past ser vices than iu the expectation of further employment. To meet these claims equitably, and at the same time not to fill the active list with officers who cannot long continue fit for service, their Lordships propose to pro mote by selection 50 commanders to the ruck of cap tams; these officers to be placed on permanent half-pay, Of these 50, 20 to be selected in the current year and 10 in each succeeding year, until the number reaches .50, when the vacancies only should be filled up. COMMANDERS. The number of commanders on the active list on the Ist of April, 1851, am ounte d to 828. My Lords propose that the active list should be reduced to 450 commanders. Tbis reduction should be effected 1. By the selection of 5 0, as above pr o p ose d . 2. By increasing to 100 the list of commanders pro moted to the rank of retired captain under th© Order in Council 1840, and keeping such retirement open until the number of commanders on the active list is reduced to 450, as proposed. 3. By placing on permanent half-pay all commanders who have not served ail )at, or in the packet or revenue service, witbia twenty years, or who are physically in c,ipable of service; and by continuing from time to time to remove such officers from the active list to permanent half-pay. Their Lordships consider that it will be just that ()Mc:era s , ) placed on permanent half Tay should retain all the advantages they now enjoy of rising in pay or rank, or of receiving the Greenwich out-pension. 4 • . That the system of brevets be abandoned, but that 50 lieutenantsra,ek of should be promoted by selection to the commanders to be placed on permanent half- Pay, m th e ' same manner and for the same reasons as their Lordships recommended in the case of commanders promoted to captains. 5 • By oblerving tho rule of promoti on of one in three, as now in force, until the number on the active list be reduced to 450. The number , Ofw LIEUTENANTS. of April, 1851alsie2utenants on the active li s t on th e I s t The Lords of the 2.147. nu mber to 1,200. y propose to reduce this They recommend, firstly lection, as above proposed the promotion of 50 by se 2. To place on permanent half all lieutenants who have not served afloat, or allthe packet or the revenue in - service, within 20 years, and t 9 tra ck e a t e are physically o remove such unable to serve, and from time to officers from the activo to the perm anent serving to them , a s in the case o f commanders -pay. Re tages they now enj o y of risin g in pay or rank be all advan ceivinff the Greenw ich out- p ension. , or of re 3. That the rule of p romotion of one in. three should be kept, until the number on the activ e list red uced to 1 200, as proposed. 4. That no promotion of mates to lieutenants s h ould be made by brevet. The Lords of the Admiralty have no sugg es ti on to make with respect to the number of mates, midshipmen, and naval cadets. They h ave already adequate power to conral the incr ea se of their number beyond the warts of the service, an d measures have been taken to that e " a. '"t• In 1848 the entries of cadets were limited to 100 in each cornea into fair year. This number, when the system in the five operation, yearis may not e * large entries had bean the introduction of a limit view of reducing th e Lordships, with a made, their the excess gradually, not long ago fur therentries.watch to 76 in each year. Their I.ords d h iln ip i : i w sh il ed l he c:refully the operation of this ar rangement; and, if 'arY, they will fur ther or increase the number reduce i i; e t ries ; in the meantime they will make no change Treasury. It present rule without pre vious communication with It remains to state the result of Re cording to the list of Ist of April, 185r.Proposals. Ace admirals, 492 captains, 828 commanders, 2,147 lieu tenants. My Lords propose to reduce the activ e list to 100 admirals, 350 captains, 450 commanders, 1,200 lieutenants. The Lords of the Treasury will not fail to "e that at first this red uc tion will be merely a transf er from the . activo list to the permanent half-pay; but as lives drop the number on the permanent half-pay will diminish, and the expenditure for the deadweight decrease. Their Lordships will also observe that the arrang e _ went includes the creation of 10 pensions for admirals, the keeping open the retired list for captains, and an addition to the list of retired captains and com manders. So far as expense is concerned, their Lord ships believe that it would be unnecessary to ask Parlia ment for an increase of the sum now included in the estimates. The vote for half-pay is always framed on tho basis of the past year, and has usually exceeded the wail espanditure; and the vote in the estimates of - . 101421 M feirly be expected to meet the excel:4l%lre THE SUN, LONDON, even of the proposed scheme; but as it is proposed to change the mode in which the sum so voted will be ap propriated, their Lordships consider it will be proper to obtain the sanction of Parhameut to the arrangements suggested. The Lords of th© Admiralty therefore request the sanction of the Treasury to the following estimate, in order that they may submit it to the House of Com mons:— Ten retired service pensions for admirals £1,500 Keeping open the retired list of captains ... 2,000 Retirement of commanders and lieutenants 3,000 Their Lordships would repeat that they believe this addition will not swell the expenditure beyond the sum taken for half-pay in the estimates now before Parlia ment; but if it were otherwise, their Lordships would still trust that the Treasury would not withhold their assent to a small charge which will enable this board to effect a beneficial alteration, with due consideration of the claims of old officers. They confidently believe that before long the reduction in the half-pay will amply compensate for any temporary expense. On the other hand, they have proposed to the Treasury an arrange ment which, while it deprives no officer cf his fair claims, will secure to the public a real separation of the active and retired lists, which will reduce the active list to a number more commensurate with the requirements of the service, which will give to old officers an honourable retirement in rank and pay, will secure to the young and efficient a better chance of continuous employment, and open to them a project of rising to the higher ranks of the profession, while their energies and efficiency re main unimpaired, and which will gradually but materi• ally diminish the heavy charge of half-pay. I am, &c,, (Signed) J. PARSER ROYAL MARINES. ROYAL MARINE -OFFICE, APRIL 30.—With reference to the order in Council, dated February 5, 1851, and addressed to the several commandants of the Royal Marines, directing that the 40 subalterns of the Artillery companies of the Royal Marines should consist of two thirds first and one-third second lieutenants, an order in Council, dated the 14th April, provides that those 10 companies are in future to bear 40 subalterns, irrespec tive of their rank of first lieutenants or second, it being understood, however, that the proportion of the first and second lieutenants in the whole corps shall remain as at present—viz,, two-thirds first and one-third second. To give effect to this arrangement the following named officers are to be forthwith transferred from the Divisional to the Artillery companies :—First Lieute nants Edmund H. Cox, Nugent Macnamara, and Archi bald Alexander Douglas. First Lieutenants W. P. Burton, G. 0. Pearse, and E. D. Shelwall are to continue to serve as supernumeraries with the Artillery companies until opportunity occurs for their appointment, but hereafter officers in those companies are, on being promoted, to join the head quarters of the division to which they shall be ap pointed, and have their names recorded for returning to the Artillery branch of the corps according to seniority as vacancies arise, should they wish to be so transferred. (By command), JOHN OWEN, Deputy Adjutant-General. The following gentlemen cadets have been appointed second lieutenants of Royal Marines; commissions dated April 29, 1851: Thomas John William Henry Rawlings to the Ports. mouth, and Henry Swale to the Plymouth divisions. SEABORNE MAILS. [N signifies that the mails are sent fYons the General Post-o Mat by the night—and M by the morning--dispatch.] I When made up in , From what when PLACES. General Post-office port dis due. London. patched. America (by (by Brit. pkt.)N May 9 .. .. Liverpool .. America (by U.S. pkt.) N May 13 .. .. Liverpool .. May 13 America (by U.S. pkt.) M May 7 .. ,Southampt. Africa (West coast) .. N 14th of the month:Plymouth May 3 Alexandria* ........ N 19th & 30th of mo.lDover .. May le Belgium .. .. •. N Daily .......Dover .. Daily Brazil .. , • .. M 9th of the month Southampt. May 12 Buenos Ayres • • .. M 9th of the month Soathampt. May 12 California(viaChagres)M 17th of month ,Southampt. May 5 Cape of Good Hope N 14th of month ,Plymouth.. May 3 Constantinople* .. •• IN 7th 17th 27th of mo• Dover .. May 10 Central America .. M2d & 17th of mon. iSouthampt. May 5 Channel Isles • • .. N Mon., Wed., & Fri. Southampt. Ta. Th. S a Chili .. .. .. .AI 17th of the month Southampt. May 20 France .. .. M&N Twice daily .. .. Dover • • Twicedaily Greece* .. N 7th 17th 27th of mo Dover .. May 10 Hamburgh .. .. N Tuesday & Friday (London .. Tues. Sat. ',Tolland .. • • .. M Wednes. & Satur. London .. Mon.Tlacr Honduras .. .. . N 17th of the meathlSouthampt. May 20 Ireland .. ••M & N Twice daily .. .. IHolyhead 1 wicedaily India (via Southamp.) M 20th of the monthlSouthampt. May 28 India (viaMa.rseilles) N 7th& 24th ofmonth Dover .. May 17 Mediterranean (via Southampton) M 20th of the month I Sonthampt. May 28 Mediterranean (via Marseilles) .. .. N 7th& 24th ofmonth Dover • • May 17 Mexico .. .. .. 31,2 d of the month.. 'Southampt. May 5 Madeira . • • • .. M 9th of the month I Southampt. May 12 M a lt a . .. .. N r ,7th ,17 t h,19 th,2 7th } Dover May N 5 10 & 30th of month Naples* •.. • • • . th 15th 25th of mo I Dover .. May 12 1 Papal states* .. .. N sth 15th 25th o f mo !D over .. May 12 Peninsular .. • . M 7th 17th 27th of mo Southampt. M a y 10 Peru .. .. • • .. M 17th of the month Southampt. May 20 Tuscany* .. .. • . Nlsth 15th 25th of mo Dover • . ,May 12 West Indies .. .. 3{ 17 th of the month Southampt. May 20 West Indies (except Havanna & Nassau) 31 1 2 d of the month .. Southampt. May 5 2d of the month .. ountries thus marl The mails to those c French packet via Marsei CALIFORNIA.—MaiIs to are now despatched and c I Southanapt. IMay 5 Led (.) are conveyed by and from Califorr lue by every Amei la, via the United States Lean packet. PETERBORO UGH. This usually quiet town was on Saturday last greatly disturbed by an attempt to give it more of a Protectionist character than it deserves. Mr. Taylor, solicitor, of Crow land, was the hero selected to confer the honour, and large handbills circulated in the neighbouring towns and villages made their appearance in the streets an hour bee fore the address they announced was appointed to be deli vered. Not succeeding, in securing the Corn Exchange, he spoke from the window of a house nigh at hand, and strongly recommended persons to attend the grand de monstration at Drury-lane. So far all was well ; the people heard him patiently. Mr. Whitwell (who is a farmer), thinking probably that some of Mr. Taylor's statements required confirmation, ascended a cart with a view of making some remarks ; his appearance was greeted with cheers by one party ; but the farmers, who had 3 assembled by hundreds, greeted him with such a storm of disapprobation as to cause an immense uproar, and for some time he could not gain a hearing. Great efforts were made to upset the cart; but the townspeople rushed among the farmers, and kept them at such a di s tance that, notwithstanding they per sisted in shouting at the top of their voice, Mr. Whitwell succeeded in communicating his sorrow at witnessing such outrageous behaviour by those who ought to know better, as contrasted with the previously orderly demeanour of the working men; he also commiserated the condition of the farmers, but protested against any presumption of theirs as to an alteration in the opinions of the inhabi tants of Peterborough. After a few more observations he withdrew, for the row became general; eggs were freely thrown about, and the farmers, who had occasioned all the disturbance, retreated into the Corn Exchange, whi ther Mr. Whitwell also tried to go, but was rudely re pulsed. After a short time, however, he made good his entrance, and was again savagely assailed by a party who seemed to have lost their reason altogether. There were, however, a sufficient number of respectable men to rally round and defend Mr. Whitwell from these unprovoked attacks; and the ultra-Proteetionsits, finding themselves baffled at all points, at last submitted to allow business to resume its ordinary character. Out of door-e, we regret to say, Mr. Compton was much hurt while en deavouring to defend ono of the young Chowlers. There certainly was no evidence aff)rded of the vaun t e d sym pathy in favour of Protection said to exist among the working classes, who on this occasion treated the farmers with so little ceremony that it is probable there will be no repetition of a surprise. As to their fate at any public demonstration on behalf of Protection, it is easy to guess that, if they do not improve their manners, it will be more difficult to ensure them a fair hearing than if they had acted with less acrimony and with a bettor temper.—Stamford Mercury. ELECTION COMMITTEE. HARWICH. The Committee resumed their sittings yesterday, and proceeded with a scrutiny of the votes. The result of the day's proceedings was, that one ob jection was sustained and another not sustained. A. third objection was under the consideration of the Com mittee when they adjourned. As the majority of Mr. Princep over Mr. Crawford was only five, the number of bad votes remaining to be proved is consequently only four. It is said, however, that the other side are pre pared to strike off a number of the votes which wore polled by Mr. Crawford. PERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, May 5. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the Woo] sack at Five o'clock. PETITIONS. Lord CAMPBELL presented several petitions from places in Scotland against Papal aggression. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented several petitions from various congregations of Wesleyan Methodists to the same effect; also petitions from various places in Ireland against the abolition of the Lord-Lieu tenancy of Ireland. The Earl of ENNISKILLEN presented a petition from the members of the Royal Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons in Dublin against the abolition of the Lord-Lieutenancy of Ireland. Lord REDESDALE presented several petitions from Perth and other places in Scotland against Papal aggression. Lord STANLEY presented several petitions against Papal aggression. MERCANTILE MARINE BILL. Lord STANLEY presented petitions from the town of Sheffield, ho had erroneously in his motion said from the town of Shields, praying for th© repeal of the Mercantile Marine Bill; but the other petition he had to present on this subject was most important. It was signed by 6,000 owners, masters, and mates, and seamen, of the port of Liverpool, praying for the exten sive modification, or total repeal of the Mercantile Marine Act. The petitioners admitted that the Act was intended for their benefit, but they com plained that it had been drawn up on the suggestions of naval officers, and that the mercantile marine had not been consulted. They admitted the benefit to be derived from an examination, but they complained that it had been brought too suddenly into operation, and that men who had been masters and mates when the examiners were mere boys, were called upon to submit to examination by their juniors. He thought that some modification might be made in this respect. They also objected to the operation of the ticket system, to the amount of fees charged, to the application of those fees, and to the unnecessary and minute regulations and restrictions which had been imposed by the Board of Trade. He knew that the registration had been insti tuted, not for mercantile but for military purposes, but he doubted whether it produced the effect intended, and he also thought it had failed in preventing desertion in foreign ports, inasmuch as since the passing of that Act desertion had increased, and the fact of these tickets being held over the heads of the seamen in terrorem rather put them upon their mettle, and induced them to desert. If they were entitled to their discharge at the port to which they were bound, it would tend to prevent desertion, and to make a fairer arrangement between owner and seamen. They also complained of the fees charged, but those complaints alluded rather to the manner in which the Act was worked out than to the Act itself. The manner in which this portion of the Act was worked out made the business of a shipping master practically a monopoly—(Hear, hear)---giving a preference for employment to those seamen who took lodgings at the Seamen's Home, with which the Examining Committee of Liver pool was connected. The people who paid the fees had a right to know how those fees were expended. They also complained of the number of petty fines le vied, and he could not but think that the Board of Trade stepped out of their province when they entered into these petty details. They ought to leave the maintenance of discipline to the master of the ship. It was important that the seamen should know how these fees and these fines were applied. He understood that these fines and fees were to be applied to the maintenance of the Seamen's Home. These homes were valuable institutions so long as they were self-supperting; but if they were to be maintained partly by contributions from the seamen, they ought to see what benefit the seamen at large were likely to derive from them. They were after all but a su perior sort of boarding-house entering into competition with other boarding-houses. Every seaman who entered them paid for what he had. The seamen of Liverpool were 7,000; the Seamen's Home could accommodate 300; and thus the benefit of these homes was derived solely by 300 men who could afford to pay so large a sum as 14s. a week. The ma- Wers of the Seamen's Home were also the local ine board of the port, and the natural feeling on the part of the seamen was that there was a tendency to fa-. your the persons who boarded at the Seamen's Home. The petitioners found no fault with the Seamen's Home, but they thought there ought to be more shipping officers, who should not be connected with the Seamen's Home. The petitioners suggested that the surplus fee fund should be applied not to the Seamen's Home, but to a school for the instruction of boys in seamanship. He thought that the requests were not unreasonable, and that the suggestions were deserving the consideration of the Government, and he would suggest the appointment of a Select Committee to consider the sub ject. He would not make any motion on the subject, but he threw out these suggestions for the consideration of the Government. Earl GRANVILLE agreed that the representations were well worthy of consideration; but he thought that in many cases the petitioners were labouring under mis apprehension. It was true the masters and mates who had not passed examination could not take the command of transport or of emigrant ships, but a certificate of service would enable them to take the command of all other ships without submitting to examination. The institution of registration and shipping offices contributed to secure a preference to good seamen, and to facilitate the identification of seamen. It was true there was but one shipping-officer at Liverpool, bat he had several deputies, and the shipping-office was situated in the most central and convenient part of Liverpool. There had hitherio been no surplus of fees as far as regarded the port of Liverpool. Only a small portion of the Marine Board of Liver pool was connected with the Seaman's Home. With regard to the regulations which had been pub lished by the Board of Trade there was no compulsion whatever as to their adoption by master or crew. Great objections were made to them, and an offer had been made to withdraw them, but that had been objected to by a large proportion of the persons concerned. The seamen had been labouring under great mis apprehension, the excitement which had existed among them was dying away, and ho thought the ap pointment of a Committee might revive it. It had been decided to bring in a Bill in the other House to modify the Act. Lord STANLEY—Why not bring the Bill into this House? Earl GRANVILLE saw no objection. The Bill would modify the Act in some minor particulars, but would not alter its general principles. The Earl of HARD W ICKE thought that if this Act had been introduced previous to the repeal of the navigation laws it would have been effective. He was not at all surprised at the objection taken by old masters and mates to subject themselves to au examination before their juniors. It was painful to a man who had con ducted ships on long voyages, with success for twenty years, to be compelled to come before men younger than himself to ask them for a certificate of competency, although he might not be compelled to undergo an ex amination. The system of registering tickets was more for enabling the Government to have some knowledge, and it might be control of the seamen than for providing them with badges of good service. Those tickets were, in fact, like a cabman's badge, and enabled one to find out any man that might be wanted. There was no reason, in his opinion, why these registry tickets should not be made more accept able to the men by being made to testify to the good charac ter of the possessor. He thought it unwise to interfere by provisions in an Act of Parliament with the minor discipline on board of merchant vessels. Educated and experienced masters might well be entrusted with such matters. With regard to the desertion of seamen at Quebec and elsewhere, he thought registrars would find some difficulty in deciding as to the character of the applicant, because they had no other evidence to guide them but that of the man himself; and in all probability the sharp fellow who could trump up a plausible story would have the advantage. The Noble Earl opposite seemed to doubt whether the fees amounted to so large a sum as that stated by his Noble Friend near him—viz.,; 130,0001. a year. In the port of Liverpool alone the fees amounted for 1850 to not less than 13,2001., and it did seem absurd that that money should all be spent in keeping up a large boarding house. He quite agreed with the petitioners that it would be better to appropriate it to the erection and endowment of schools for the children of sailors. He thought the complaints of some of the seamen as to the way in which the consuls at different ports were paid entitled to consideration; and he was also of opinion that some of the fees collected at the port of London might ad vantageously be applied for the purposes of the Dread nought Hospital. Earl WALDEGRAVE said a few words in praise of sailors' homes, which he regarded as institutions well calculated to promote the comfort and impro ve th e morals of sailors. The e e E pe a t r i l ti o o t n ß w A as s then ordered presentedto l s i e e v oernaltheagainst table. petitions Papal aggression, from Cork and other places in Ireland ; also petitions for a grant for Church education. The Earl of ZETLAND also presented several petitions against Papal aggression. Lord LYTTELTON postponed his motion on the subject of transportation to Friday next; and presented petitions from Stourhridge, praying for an alteration in local rates; catch. an and other petitions, the purport of which we coud not The Earl of CARLISLE presented a petition from Bury, for a general system of seoelar education, and from a place in Cumberland, against Papgl aggression. The Earl of HARROWBY presented a petition from Maplestead, against Papal aggression, and from other places to the same effect ; also a petition from Scotland, against the Beer Bill. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May s. Four. n h b o u f r o g l h l .1.119 SP EAKER took the Chair a few minutes to T v P i r g t h B , THIRD READINGS. South Dev on R ailway. and T u e nd re e a e d ß a a t i h lw ir a d y. Manchester an d Ashton-under-Lyne New Road. tim© and passed: York, Newcastle, and Berwick Railway (Abandonment of Part of Bishop Auckland Branch, &c,) WATERFORD, WEXFORD, &c., RAILWAY. Sir WILLIAM VERNER moved that it be an in struction to the Committee (Group 13) on the Water ford, Wexford, Wicklow, and Dublin Railway Bill, to consider and report to the lime as to the propriety of OPENING OF THE GREAT EXHIBITION. Amongst the aristocratic circle surrounding the throne, the Mandarin Hesing of the Royal Chinese Junk, " Keying," was conspicuous. The Mandarin arrived at the Crystal Palace at about half•past ten in a carriage and pair, attended by his secretary, and on his entrance he was immediately introduced into the circle reserved for the great officers of State and the Royal and Foreign Commissioners. He was quickly recognized by a number of the dis tinguished occupants of the State circle, and amongst them his Grace the Duke of Wellington shook him warmly by the hand. After the gracious reply of her Majesty to the address read by his Royal Highness the Prince Consort on behalf of the Royal Commis sioners, the Mandarin Hesing was especially noticed by her Majesty, and the important functionaries between him and the Queen having separated on either side,_ the Mandarin appro ac h e d th e Th rone an d had the high honour of saluting her Majesty by a grand salaam, which the Queen most graciously returned. The Man darin was also much noticed by the young Prince of accordingly Wales_ n and the Princess Royal. special re bilidiltili,e formation of the Royal procession round the tio n o f i' le his Royal Highness Prince Albert, at the sugges tion he tteecioes request was pleased to convey to the Mandarin a ' that he would form part of the procession lll ritcj A rch bis h o p pHoof u tsC5 ll took is p acebetweenhisGrace the h . l gress throughout thel ltarbury and the Comptroller of her resentative at and accompanied the Royal Pro of remark that his , inaugural procession. It is worthy the only rep -. 1 . Ileney the Mandarin Hesing was opening of the Great Exhibition, of the vast' E m i the China, possessing a one-thfr c r i e o i )f population numbering ___________ the whole human race. EQUALIZATION OF THE LAND TA x. ......A . was held on Wednesday at the Court:h the purpose of considering the propriety oTse emorializin g the meeting the unequal the Tower 'Fort-street, for Commissioners of land-tax on the sub'ernt proportion of Land-tax payable by the iliber;'t of London ; Mr. Hodson in the chair. Thri )f the rates imposed upon the several districts 0 ; 1 1' 1 1 1 . ' 141 4 in Hamlets as land-tax was briefly stated by the eheailler one pariah paying at the rata of 1 3 / 4 d. in the pound, chairman in their immediate neighbourhood (the old Artillery -ground) they were charged 2 s. 3 d. i n the p ound. If the ta x were equalized, an uniform rate of s d. o r 6d. in the p ound would raise the same sum as was at pre:.ent une q uall y and un justly assessed. He then moved that a memorial be p resented, Prayin g " that in lieu of the present unequal assessments, an equalized rate in the pound on all property should * be a g e t , l'i t : o ' The resolution and memorial were unanimously proceedings.*A vote of thanks to the chairman concluded the s uperintended th ' I.l— ' TUE SomEn sET H OUSE M OD ELS.—We hear that Captain I nglefield N. -k son of the deceased Admiral , has e arrangements o of the Somerset House models for the Gr eat Exhibition, and that on all hands it is admitted that the Berk has been judiciously, tastefully, and admirably executed. Ti JAY EVENING, winding up ano the company (instead of pro longing the sam regard to the judgment of the Master of ti garding the same, the pledges of the directors I eholders in June and August last to do so, the management of the company, and the papers la the House. Mr. L ABOITC: said the motion of the Hon. Gentleman was n anusual but without precedent in the proceedir4, a House, and if it were adopted the effect would ' 1 paw the House into every little squabble and disp( Oh arose in the affairs of private companies. He 1. the Hon. Baronet would not persist in his mi old that if he did, the House would not dept.' its invariable practice in such cases. The motion w withdrawn. 'TITIONS. Mr. FARREI3, sted a petition from bankers and others at Hartlep gainst the continuance of the in come-tax; also a 3n from the corporation of Dur ham in favour of 333 clerks of the peace by fixed salaries instead of t as. Mr. FERGUS pi •.ted several petitions from Fife shire and other plac t Scotland against Papal aggres sion; also, several 3titions from places in Scotland against the Scotch 1 cation Bill. Mr. FRE WEN I rented a petition, numerously signed by hop grower in Sussex, praying the House to reduce the duty on hops to Id. in the pound. Mr. A. HASTIE presented a petition from Glasgow against the adulteration of coffee with chicory. Mr. ANDERSON presented a petition from mem. hers of the Free Church, in places in Scotland, in favour of the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill. Sir R. H. INGLIS and other Hon. Members presented petitions to the same effect. Mr. MACGREGOR presented a petition from Glas gow in favour of Lord Melgund's Education Bill. Mr. HENLEY presented a petition from Oxfordshire, praying that the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill might be made more stringent in its provisions. Mr. BOOKER presented a petition praying for the imposition of a duty on foreign produce. Mr. FRENCH presented a petition from the Dublin Steam Navigation Company against certain clauses in the Steam Navigation Bill. Mr. FORBES presented a petition from a place in Stirlingshire against Lord Melgund's Education Bill. METROPOLITAN SEWERS. Sir B. HALL gave notice that he would, to•morrow, ask Lord Ebrington from how many and what districts of the metropolis the Ftwers rate of sd. in the pound, recently ordered, is to be collected, what sum the rate will produce, whether the several rates are to be ex pended in the districts in which they are collected, what new works are proposed, and whether such works are to be completed before the present commission ex pires; and if not, what proportions will be completed, and whether any part of the extraordinary amount about to be levied is to be applied to payments of existing liabilities, and if so, how much is to be applied? BRITISH TROOPS IN INDIA. Colonel LINDSAY begged to ask the Secretary at War the following question:—As the service of regi ments in India is in future not to exceed fifteen years (except under extraordinary circumstances, such as war, &c.), and as about a year and a half must elapse from the time when a regiment of cavalry is under or ders, until the regiment to be relieved can return to England, whether any steps have yet been taken to re lieve the 3d Light Dragoons, whose period of fifteen years' service expires in July, 1852? Mr. FOX MAULE said that the matter had for some time been under the consideration of the Government, and as soon as a decision had been come to ho would state it to the House. THE WOODS AND FORESTS. Mr. COCHRANE - moved for returns of the attend ance of the Commissioner of Woods and Forests, since the Noble Lord came into office:-1. At the Board of Woods and Forests, Works and Buildings; 2. At the General Board of Health; 3. At the Commons Inclosure Commission; 4. As Chief Justice in Eyre, North and South Trent; 5. As Gaveller of the Forest of Dean; 6. As Commissioner of Greenwich Hospital; 7. As Commis sioner of Highland roads and bridges; 8. As Commis sioner for the repair and maintenance of roads, bridges, and harbours, originally under the care and management of the Commissioners of Holyhead Roads ; 9. As Commissioner for building churches ; 10. As Commissioner for the conservancy of the Mersey ; 11. As trustee for the Commissioners for the management of certain churches in Marylebone ; 12. As Commis sioner for paving Regent -street ; 13. As Commissioner for Fine Arts ; 14. As member of the Council for the affairs of the Duchy of Cornwall ; 15. As Commissioner for the geological surveys in Great Britain and Ireland, and the museums established in London and Dublin ; 16. As member of the Com mission for the more effectual means of improving the metropolis; and of the number of Boards held during the same period, that is, since the Noble Lord was ap poined Commissioner of Woods and Forests-1. At the Board of Health; 2. At the Commons Inclosure Com mission. AYLESBURY ELECTION. Mr. R. PALMER moved that the petition of Mr. Bradmore on the subject be taken into consideration. Captain BOLDER° said he had a counter-petition to present, and he therefore hoped the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would put off his motion until to-morrow. Mr. R. PALMER was quite prepared to postpone the motion till to-morrow, but for the sake of form he would move that this matter bo referred to a Select Com mittee. Lord J. RUSSELL thought it would be better for the House to have both petitions beforo it previous to coming to any decision, and postponement would there fore be the best course to follow. The SPEAKER said, that in order that the question might come on the first thing to-morrow the motion had better be withdrawn now and renewed at the sitting of the House to-morrow. The motion was accordingly withdrawn with leave. Captain BOLDER() then presented his petition, which was ordered to be printed with the votes. MINISTERIAL EXPLANATIONS. PROPERTY AND INCOME-TAN BILL The House then went into Committee on this Bill when Lord J. RUSSELL rose and said, before they pro. ceeded to consider the Bill with regard to property and income-tax, the House would, perhaps, desire that either his Right lion. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer or himself should state the course which Government proposea to take not only with regard to this measure, but also with regard to all other financial measures of the session. —(Hear, hear.) The House was aware that on Friday night, by a majority of four teen, it was decided that on© year, instead of three years was the period to which the property and income tax should be continued.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Gentleman the Member for Montrose, who made that motion, stated as his reason for doing so that he thought it was desirable that an inquiry should take place in reference to this tax with the view of making it more just and equitable in its operation, and with the view of ultimately rendering it a permanent tax, after such alterations and modifications should be introduced into it which the result of that inquiry might suggest. —(Hear, hear.) He (Lord John Russell) did not agree on Friday, nor did he agree now, that it was far before b e t eithert r to d i o n p q t u de sirable to abrid ge th e d urat i on of the tax for that au purpose. —(Hea r , hear.) He tbcught it would have been the inquiry w generprinciplea s l or an ymodification ofthe tax was made in the tax; but the House decided otherwise, and it then became the duty of the Government to consider what eourse they s h ou ld ta k e to secure the stability of the public re ven ue.—(Hear.) No w , a l t h oug h in his opinion it would have been more expedient to have continued the tax for three years rather than for one year, yet he could not suppose that the majority of those . Members w h o supporte d th e cont rar y mot i on had any wish or int en ti on to p l ace the publi c cre di t o f the country in jeopardy. He could not suppose that, be cause the majority o f the House since its fi rst assembling after the last general election had shown themselves most careful of preserving the public credit and providing for the necessary establishment of the State. He aid not suppose so, because amongst the Members who voted for the amendment on Friday night there were many who by their acts and speeches h a d shown every determination to provide for the public credit, and make every necessary provision for the effectual discharge of the public service. —(Hear.) And, therefore, in concluding that such was not their inten tion, Ministers had to consider whether or no they could adopt the resolution of the House and proceed with the Bill in its present amended shape. Now many gentle men who had argued this question with hins in private had said that it was the general impression of the coun try that though the tax in its existing shape was unequal in its operation, it might yet be made exceedingly bene ficial and just by the introduction of certain specified alterations; and when he had answered that Mr. Pitt and Sir Robert Peel, and other eminent men who had been in office had always come to a different conclusion, it had been replied to him, that if the conclusion to which these eminent men had come should be supported by inquiry, the country would be satisfied by the result of such an inquiry, while, on the other hand, i f it could be shown that the tax by modifications could be made more fair in that case, such alterations might be adopted and the tax rendered permanent, so that either way, after inquiry, the country would be satisfied with the result.—(Hear.) Now be had no doubt that those who had expressed these opinions to him acted in that view when they gave their support to the motion of his Honourable Friend the Member for Montrose, and therefore, seeing that, contrary to the expressed opinion of the Government, the House had come to that con clusion, Ministers thought it desirable, in the present state of affairs, th a t th ere s hould be an in q uiry on the subject. I think, aft e r suc h being the deci s ion of the House, it would be neither fair nor wise to attempt to refuse or evade that inquiry, but it ought to be a fair inquiry, and conducted by men in this House who were generally leaders on financial subjects. The Government were, therefore, prepared to agree that there should be a fair and full inquiry. —(Hear, hear.) But a further question arose, and that was, whether taking the income-tax only for a year, they could agree to any other modification -of that tax, and whether they could proceed with those measures relative to our financial system, which his Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) bad brought forward. On that subject they had to con sider that the House, by its previous votes had agreed to the continuance of the income-tax for a limited period, and had rejegie,cl the motion of the Honourable Gentleman the Men:filer for Stafford for taking off, without modification or alteration, a part of the income-tax equivalent to the surplus, which the House might be disposed to remit in the shape of taxation, The House likewiss concurred with his Right Hon. Friend, in the proposal to repeal the window-tax, and to supply the deficiency °maimed by the 1018 of the-tax, MAY 6, 1851. by a tax on a more equitable principle, on the owners and occupiers of house property.—(Hear.) The House had also agreed to the resolutions which his Right Hon. Friend had proposed with respect to the timber and coffee duties. This composed the financial arrangements for the year. Now the Govern ment would be extremely reluctant to forego the repeal of the window-tax, not so much on the ground of its being a great financial burden, as a great social evil.— (Hear, hear.) The Government, therefore, considered that daring the inquiry to which they were disposed to agree, it should be clear to them, that no further al teration would be made in the income-tax—in the pro duce of that tax—during the year, and, in the next place, that there should be no burden thrown on the fi nances of the country, so as to prevent the Chancellor of Exchequer maintaining the public credit, and carrying out the proposed reductons in taxation.—(Hear.) He thought he was making no unreasonable requirements when he stated this to the House.—(Hear.) It would be certainly the duty of the Government, while they pro posed to go on with the income-tax as the Honourable Member for Montrose proposed, to suggest that it should pass without further modification, and likewise that the whole revenue far the year should remain secure, so as to enable them to repeal the window tax, and carry into effect the resolutions with regard to timber and coffee.—(Hear, hear.) He proposed to ask the House to allow him to correct a misconception which seemed to prevail on Friday night in the mind of the Hon. Member for Montrose. He seemed to think that he (Lord John Russell) reproached him for asking the aid of parties to assist him in carrying his resolution who did not agree with him in political opinions, and said, fairly enough, that such had, on former occasions, been his (Lord J. Russell's) own situation. Now, all he said was, that those gentleman did not agree in the ultimate object for which the Hon. Member for Montrose contended. He (Lord J. Russell) proposed that the question should be submitted to a fair inquiry, and be trusted that the country would be satisfied that this tax cannot be made more equal without either exceedingly diminishing its amount or mak ing it ten times more inquistorial ; or if they were not satisfied in that respect, and thought that a general modification of the tax would make it more just and equal, then his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose would have had a great success in his motion—a success which he should not envy him, for he thought it was fairly due to him. Such was the course which the Government proposed to take, and he could assure his Hon. Friend that the last thing which he would think of doing would be to attempt to evade any inquiry on the subject. Mr. HUME quite agreed with the Noble Lord in the assumption that supposing his motion should be acceded to, no further alteration of the tax should be proposed this year. Whatever the result of the inquiry should be, and even if it should be found that no improvement could be effected, the country would be satisfied that everything had been done to remove all the evils of the tax. He hoped, therefore, that the Gallant Officer (Colonel Sibthorp), who had a motion on the paper for the relief of a particular class, would not press it. He thought the Noble Lord was quite judicious in his determination of not disturbing the repeal of the window -tax, as it had been agreed to, looking upon the tax as a social evil. With regard to what had fallen from the Noble Lord on the importance of maintaining public credit, he could assure the Noble Lord that no man had ever shown himself more anxious to sup port public credit than he had ; and in pro posing the motion of Friday he had no intention whatever of disturbing it. He himself should be satis fied with doing his best to place matters in the beat posi tion possible; and with regard to the Committee, he should place a notice on the books to-night, and hoped that it would be appointed with as little delay as possible. Mr. DISRAELI said that after the vote which the House had come to on Friday night, and after the noti fication of the Noble Lord, it would certainly be unfair to criticize the tax in detail on the present occasion.— (Hear.) There certainly was one motion, that of the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln, which was deserving of the special consideration of the Committee, and, although perhaps the Honourable and Gallant Gentleman might not think it altogether desi rable for him to take exactly the same course which he meant originally to have done, yet he hoped that her Majesty's Ministers would take into consideration the propriety of adopting the principle of that motion, that the tenant-farmers of England should be rated in the same manner to the tax as were all other interests. With regard to the statements which the Noble Lord had made on the importance of maintaining public credit, Honourable Gentlemen on that side of the House had certainly always shown extreme anxiety to fulfil that paramount duty, and with that view he assured the Noble Lora that Hon. Gentlemen on that side of the House would feel it their duty to consider the remainder of the financial propositions of the Government entirely in a new light, and with reference to the new position in which they were placed by the vote which the House had come to. With regard to what had been said by the Noble Lord as to the con trariety of views which were entertained by Gentlemen on that side of the House, and those who acted generally with the Hon. Gentleman who had proposed the motion, le entirely dissented from the Noble Lord, and thought that the two parties had essentially one common and Parliamentary object, and he thought the conclusion which bad been arrived at would be found to be a salutary one, and would lead to most beneficial results. Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not mean to say that the case of the tenant-farmers was not to be considered; but thought it was a fair subject of consideration for the whole House when the whole principles and character of the income-tax were to be taken under review. The case of the tenant-far• mess was one which evidently required attention; but he thought that the better plan would be to turn to it when they came to a final decision respecting the full principle of the income-tax. Colonel SIBTHORP said that this was a question which demanded much attention. He never had shrunk from his duty, and he never would. He had considered during the last eight or nine years the position of the tenant-farmers. During that period they had not received, not only not any fair profits upon their outlay, but the capital which bad been made upon the land which they occupied. He was delighted to see the result of the division on Friday last. He did not expect to see such a result, but it bad come, and he believed that it had given a great shake to the Go vernment, and especially to that member of it the Chancellor of the Exchequer.—(Laughter.) Well, they might expect a second shake—(A laugh)—and they all knew that two shakes were better than one.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He had never shrunk from his duty—(Hear, hear)—and neither in the House or out of the House had he ever forsaken his principles, and therefore it was that he gave his adhesion to the principle which had been announced by his Honourable Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire. What he wanted to know, therefore, was, what the Chancellor of the Exchequer intended to do with regard to the tenant farmers? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he could not possibly see what was the,. ob ject of the Honourable and Gallant Member for Lincoln in asking this question. He thought that it had been fully answered by his Noble Friend the First Lord of the Treasury.—(Hear, hear.) As far as he understood it, the question was simply as to whether the Government intended, through the House, to continue this tax formore than one year. That had been decided, and the tax was only to be renewed for one year, with a view to re-considering the injus tice of the tax, and the mode in which it was levied. Until that was decided nothing could be done. Lord JOCELYN said that, conceiving that the obser vations of the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire had quite put the question into its proper light, he snould, therefore, reserve his motion and his observa tions to a future opportunity. Mr. BOOKER said that be had received a number of addresses from the agricultural county which he re presented, and: all those who had signed these ad dresses concurred in the opinion that they could not bear the impost as it at present existed; but yet inquiry was necessary, and he trusted that his Hon. and Gal lant Friend would withdraw his motion. Mr. WILLIAMS said that this question had been put upon two grounds on Friday night. One was as to whether the income-tax should be continued at all; the other, whether it should exist fora period of one or three years. That was a matter of convenience, but he wished to assure the House that it was not merely as a matter of convenience that they legislated upon it. It was a matter of principle, and it was simply on that ground that he had joined with the majority. Mr. CHAPLIN, who spoke amidst much interruption, proceeded to show the difference between the quantity of flour produced in France and in England from a load of wheat. Mr. SPOON-ER submitted to the consideration of the Committee the propriety of making as few alterations in the Bill as possible, now that Government had consented to inquiry. In order, however, to provide for tenant farmers who were making no profit or reduced profits by their farms, he would suggest that an appeal should be established or allowed in such case. He would be the last man in the world to take a step which could have the effect of shaking the public credit; but he was very much afraid, if the House led the farmers of England to believe that they were unjustly dealt by, no severer blow could be struck at the credit of the country. Sir T. ACLAND said it had become a duty of wis dom and justice to allow thisßill to pass with as little modi fication as possible, but there was one class who:were ac knowledged to be in a state of distress, and some, change ought to be made in their favour. He, therefore, hoped a clause would be introduced into the Bill giving the power of appeal to persons assessed under Schedule B, either as the owners of land in their own occupation, or as tenants in respect of leases. Mr. ALCOCK concurred very much in what had fallen from the last two Honourab:e Members. He did not wish to see the farmer exempted from paying the income-tax upon his legitimate profits, but many of the English farmers were making no profit at all, and it was therefore perfectly unfair and unjust to call upon them to pay according to the old rate. Mr. BANKES said that they ought to consider the par ticular year this was as regarded the tenant- farmer. At the . -6:li - ening of th e sess i on her i\Jajesty was advised by her Bi I /titters to state that the tenant-farmers wore in a great and peculiar state of distress. The Ministers, notwithstanding, had refused up to the present moment to offer any alleviation for that distress. Alter these circumstances, it surely was not too mull to grant to this suffering class thepo a w s er sin of s en ap pealing against an unjust assessment. The se might have been good when it was first proposed, but at that time the tenant-farmers had protection.—(Hear, hear.) Their distressed state being now universally acknowledged, he called upon the Government to give them at least the benefit now demanded. If this appeal be not assented to now by her Majesty's Ministers, he predicted that it would be forced upon them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought that they were really getting into a discussion of the whole prin ciple under which Schedule B was to be framed. All these questions were so linked together, that it was impossible to deal with tho one without considering the whole. Lust year the Noble Lord the Member for Stamford (the Marquis of Granby) thought that the arrangement under Schedule B was rather a fair one as regarded the farmers. His (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) opinion was, that it was a favourable ground upon which to place the assessment of the farmer. If a reduction was to take place at all, be thought that it should be made in the rent and not upon the profits. The tax calculated upon the rent would be reduced far more than the tax upon the profits. Hon. Gentlemen seemed to think that the circumstance of one particular year ought to justify a change of the law in this respect. It was, however, impossible to come to any conclusion in respect to the cir cumstances of any one particular year. He was sorry to see what the feeling was on this particular subject. He did not tbi k that they would deal fairly in the matter unless they considered the whole mode of assessment under Schedule B. In his opinion it was better either to let the tax stand as it was for one year, or to go into Committee upon the tax as a whole. Sir T. D. ACLAND said they might make the assessment in the way proposed, but they ought to grant an appeal from it to the farmers who complained of its iujustice. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was but fair, if they allowed this advantage on the one hand, that they ought to be allowed on the other to impose the tax upon those of the same class whose profits extended beyond 1501. a year. After a few observations from Colonel SIBTHORP, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he thought it was not quite fair that this discussion should be raised on a question which had been withdrawn from pre sent consideration. The Bill should be left in its present shape, and a Select Committee appointed to consider whether any and what modifications might be made in the law. Under these considerations he did not think it right to suggest any alterations until that Committee was ap pointed. It was his interest as much as that of any other person that that Committee should be appointed as speedily as possible. Various questions might be raised which were so interwoven one with another that it was impossible to dis cuss them apart. Mr. HENLEY remarked that the case of the tenant farmers rested upon special grounds. The assessment upon them was for three years, and that being so, he s as sure no one would have the hardihood to say that in the years 1849 and 1850 the tenant-farmers had made anything like the sums for which they had been assessed. During that time the capital of many had been diminished at least 25 per cent., and all that was asked for now was, that there should be some means of appeal to parties who had made no profits last year, or in the present year, against their being assessed. That was not an unreasonable thing to ask ; and he was sure the Right Hon. Gentleman would not tell them that be could not hold out any hopes to a suffering class that they would be permitted to escape from the injustice about to be inflicted upon them. Sir J. TROLLOPE said as far as regarded the tenant farmers, they could not permit the Government to have re course to the convenient mode that had now been suggested of shelving this question. Unless some more satisfactory assurance were given than any that had yet been received he would entreat of the Hon. Member for Warwickshire to persevere with his motion. It was very convenient for a Government to get rid of a question by referring it to a Committee, and as a proof of this he would allude to what had happened in the case of the Committee on Official Salaries, which was appointed last session ; and yet:they had arrived at the present period in the session without the Noble Lord telling them what he intended to do in consequence of it. He told the Noble Lord that they would be compelled to bring the subject of the tenant-farmers to an issue during the present session.—( Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL did not consider that the Hon. Baronet was very reasonable or very fair in his attack upon her Ma jesty's Government when he said that the appointment of a Committee was a very convenient way for them to get rid of a subject, as if it had been the intention of the Government to propose any such Committee. The Government had op posed it with all their force—(Hear, hear)—and they had used against it every argument they could employ in the hope of dissuading the House from adopting any such pro position.—(Hear, hear.) and yet the Government having done this, the Hun. Baronet charged them by saying that it was a convenient mode for a Government to get rid of a diffi culty by appointing a Committee.—( Hear, hear.) There were two courses which might have been fairly taken on this sub ject—the one was, to agree to the appointment of a Com mittee to make an inquiry before the tax was imposed; and the other, to discuss all the modifications which might be in troduced in a Committee of the whole House; and having either agreed to or rejected these, then proceed with the enactment of the tax. Either of these courses might reas nably have been taken ; but now the Hon. Baronet pro posed, when there was to be an inquiry into all the matters in a special Committee, with a re-enactment of the tax for another year, the case of the tenant-farmers as a special case, and one that should have the advantage of special exemptions. Why, if this were done for one particu ar class— it the House agreed thus to exempt one particular class—what would be more reasonable than for traders and manufacturers to come before them and to say that in the years 1817 and 1848 they had been obliged to pay on three years' returns, when they were, in fact, making no profits?—(Hear.) In fact, if they made an exemption in favour of one class, they must make it for another, and they would thus involve themselves in endless discussions. As it was the wish of the House that a Committee should be appointed, he hoped they would now consent to renew the tax.— (Hear.) But the Hon. Baronet bad charged him with not having stated his views respect ing the report of the Committee on official salaries. He had already mentioned, that on going into the first Committee of Supply, it was his intention to state what course he meant to adopt on the subject, and he held at the moment the report of the Committee on Oficial Salaries in his hand, and was prepared then to state to the House his views re specting it. Sir W. JOLLIFFE observed that his vote the other night was that the income-tax should t a for one year, instead of three years.—( Hear, hear.) His vote had nothing t o d o with the appointme n t o f a Committee.—(Hear, hear.) His vote was a vote with respect to the duration of the income tax.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord the other evening had been pleased to be facetious with respect to the Protectionists; he had told them that they did not march in time, nor fire their muskets in order. He believed that the Noble Lord had by this time discovered that they steadily maintained their ground, that they marched with a firm step, and that in their muskets there was something more than blank powder. (Hear, and laughter.) Mr. DISRAELI considered the Noble Lord was under a misconception when he supposed that those on his (Mr. Disraeli's) side of the House had voted for the motion of re ferring the income-tax to a Committee.—(Hear, hear.) He understood that a Committee to inquire into the income-tax was a Government proposition. (Hear, hear.) If it were not he was labouring under a mistake. He did not know what was the intention of others ; but this he said, that if a Committee had been proposed, he should pro bably have taken a different course from that which he had adopted. He certainly had no official in formation as to the appointment of a Committee until he heard the Noble Lord propose it that night.—(Hear, hear.) He certainly had been very incredulous when the fact was first mentioned, and when he was told that such a course would be taken he said that he did not think that it would, because there was the Kafir Committee--(Hear)—it had not yet reported; and he conceived there would be a difficulty in naming a Committee.—(Hear.) The proposition of the Hon. Member for Warwickshire was virtually introduced in chat of his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for Lincoln, and therefore he would suggest to the Noble Lord, when he came down to the House with such an unusual proposition as he had made that night, and which was not very favour ably received, that he should now move that the Chairman should report, so as to enable his Hon. and Gallant Friend to bring forward his proposition; and then, too, his Noble Friend could inform them as to what furth er business he proposed to proceed with that night.—(Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL remarked that the Hon. Gentleman had asserted that he (Lord J. Russell) had entirely mis taken the view with which the Hon. Member for Montrose proposed his motion ; that his views were the same as the views of the Hon. Gentleman ; that he was entirely in error in saying that the proposition of his Hon. Friend was incon sietent with the grounds on which it had been supported by the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire. In this case he was in the recollection of the House, and nothing could be more easy than to ascertain whether what he had stated was in accordance with the recorded views of the Hon. Member for Montrose. (Hear.) The Hon. Member tor Buckingham shire said that the proposition fur a Committee was one of which the House had never heard before; that he was taken by surprise by its proposition, and yet what was the Hon. Gentleman's motion? It was not, of course, put in full, but these were the terms in which it was made, "to move to limit the duration of the tax to one year, with a view of instituting an inquiry, by a Select Committee, into the mode of assessing and collecting the tax. (Hear, hear. ) And yet, with these words before him, the Hon. Gentleman had repeatedly declared that he had the same views on this subject with his Hon. Friend ; and yet now told them that he only supposed his lien. Friend was for merely limiting the duration of the tax to one year.—(Hear.) He now asked whether or not he was satisfied in supposing that, in the adoption of the motion of his Honourable Friend, the House assented to the appointment of a Committee. The Government had now adopted that proposition, and now, when it was wished to move that the Chairman should f report progress, he at once declared that the Government could not accede to any such proposition. (Hear) In ac ceding to the wishes of the House that which he did on due deliberation, and not without the consent of his colleagues, he trusted to find the House prepared to meet the tax for one year, so as to enable them to carry out measures that were necessary for the public credit. Mr. DISRAELI said, that so far was the proposition of the Hon. Member for Montrose from being put to the House in the terms stated by the Noble Lord, that he found this motion was in the business paper for that very evening : " Mr. Hume —To move to limit the duration of the tax to one year, with the view of instituting an inquiry by a Select Committee into the mode of assessing and collecting the tax ; and whether the injustice of levying the same rate of charge upon terminable as upon perpetual annuities, and upon fluctu ating and varying inc mes from trades and professions as upon fixed incomes from real property, cannot be greatly modified or altogether removed." This showed the motion was not yet made. (Cheers.) And what was more, the Hon. Mem ber for Montrose had never read a resolution, and had never referred to it. But he excused the Noble Lord, as no doubt after what occurred the Noble Lord was under excited feel g up P the report h ings.—(Lmghter.) But what he ros e for was, was iforerptotrite purpose of saving that the propositi on of the lion. and Gal lant Member for Lincoln was a fair proposition, and he wou l d suggest to the Hon. Member for Warwickshire n ot to press thehis motion Hnn. m f e o m r the her fpresent,or Lincoln so mightthatonhbrri forwardin e had to submit to the House as a substantive moti on . Mr. HT ME said that having been referred to, he felt bound to state that he had declared that if he carried his mo tion for one year, then he would move for a Committee. These were his words ; and to carry out that inte n ti on h e had given the notice which was on the paper, for the purpose of mo ving the Committee to - morrow. Mr. NE wDEGATE understood the motion and o t f ha t t he it was on. a hehadstated it, Committee. At th e same ti me h e Hon. MemberMontrose t n move for a s had no hope from a Committee ; f or he remembered Sir It. ‘Mhiseminbteer to intention Peel declaring that it was imp oss ib le to levy'th rmers, he reminded the doing injustice. As to the tenantofa a tax without Right Hon. Gentlema n th e c hat] e lor of the Exchequer that he had admitted they were entitled to specific relief— that he had even made a proposition to that effect, which he had subsequently withdrawn—that he proposed a remission of 30,0001. for seeds, and to transfer 150,0004fr0m the rates to the Cons o lid ated Fund. But was the Able Lord sure that if relief were granted the traders and manufacturer• might ask for a remission for losses sustained in 1847 and 1848? The Noble Lord forgot that in 1847 and 1848 , if such losses w ere sustained, traders, merchants, and manu facturers had a power of appeal given to them—that which was denied to the tenant-farmers.- (Hear.) Mr. SPOONER agreed that the motion ought to be brought forward by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lin coln, and he, therefore, should not press his motion. Captain HARRIS distinctly protested against the notion that in voting as he did on Friday night he was voting for a Committee. To appoint a Committee was to propose to make the tax perm/Aleut; to appoint a Committee We t 9 enable a Government to get out of a scrape—to throw upon a Committee the ressonsibili:y which attached to a Govern ment, and this the Government had done with the Kefir war. He warned the House not to allow this subject to go to a Committee.—(hear.) There should not be an income-tax in time of peace. Colonel IBI'HORP said it was his intention to bring for ward his motion on the report. Sir B. HALL observed 35 Members on that (the Govern ment) side of the House voted for the motion of the lion. Member for Montrose with the intention of a Committee being appointed. Hon. Gentlemen opposite epol=e as if tenant-farmers were the only persons in the country that were suffering. Mr. FRESEIFIELD was, he said, perfectly aware that many tradesmen were suffering from the effects of free-trade —they were suffering as well as the tenant-farmers, bu• then they paid taxes only on profits, whereas the tenant-farmers paid whether they had profits or not. Mr. WILLIAMS wished to know whether it was the in tenrisn to charge income-tax on the interest of the public debt paid in Ireland, as well as on the salaries in public offices? Ile also wished to know whether it was intended to extend the income-tax to Ireland? ihe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER repli , d that the question of the income-tax being extended to Ireland was one Sro the whole House to decide. Sir B. HALL wished the Chaneellor of the Exchequer would name a day when he might bring forward his motion for extending the income tax to Ireland. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER declined doing so. Whenever the motion was brought forward, it was his intention to oppose it. Clau e 1, as amended, was agreed to. On clause 2 being proposed, Mr. CHAPLIN moved the insertion of a proviso, by way of amendment to the second clause, to the effect that, with a view to a just relief of the occupiers of farms chargeable to the duties under Schedule B, the same privileges of exemp tion from duty be granted to all parties chargeable under,. that schedule as are. ay the 133 d and following sections of the present Property-tax Act, secured to the parties made, liable to duties by Schedule D of the same Act, in respect o f the profits of trade, 6 c., in the events set forth in the said. 133 d section. Mr. SPOON ER suggested the postponement of this ques tion until the report was brought up. Lord J. RUSSELL thought it would be very unwise te add a proviso to the Bill, the only effect of which would be to create great confusion. Mr. HENLEY also urged upon the Hon. Member that be should not press his motion at that time. The gallery was then cleared fora division, but none took place, and after a desultory conversation the motion Was by leave withdrawn, and the cd clause agreed to. Clauses 3 and 4 were agreed to. Mr J. B. SMITH moved the addition of two clauses to the following effect • That offices . - all appointments to any authorised to be made by l oca l comm i ss i one rs of proper t .r tax should be subject to revision by the Lords Corn sioners of her Majesty's Tr easury; an d t h a t no appointm ent to any office under the provisio of this Act should be made of persons under twenty-one years. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought his Hon. Friend had better not p ress th e question, for it see r "' to him to comprise one of the subjects which the non' Member for Montrose had suggested as being particularly desirable to submit to a Select Committee. Mr. J. B. SMITH begged leave then to withdr aw hi° clauses, being satisfied to leave them in the bands of the Committee. Mr. MACGREGOR also withdraw his amendments. The House then resumed, and the report was erdered to be brought up to-morrow (this day), on the understan ding that it was not to be discussed. 08t - The Committee on the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill was poned to Friday. . _ OFFICIAL SALARIES. o„, n . On the order of the day f or th e H ouse go i ng into a gy m. mittee of Supply, Lord J. RUSSELL rose to call the attention of the Sous e to the report of the Committee on Official Salaries, but b i e . spoke in a lo w t one, an d was occasionally indistinct ly hear". He was understo o d t o say t h at cons i derable bene fit ha n -- flowed from the app o i n t ment o f t h e Comm i ttee on Offi cia l Salaries from the circumstance of an opportunity be in g afforded of pl ac i ng on record the opinions of - mign9 0 persons of official experience of various kinds, P et litical, judicial, legal, and diplomatic, with re s s ,,P e- es to the salaries and emoluments attached to the office s in in the various departments. Above all, the Comm 4 ., had had the opportunity of hearing the opinion of tits late Sir Robert Peel, with his long experience and cast preheusive mind, on th e su bj ect o f the salaries of ofhei:4 persons. On the other hand, t h e C omm i ttee, pursu i n g w "/ was unluckily the usual pr ac ti ce o f S e l ect C omm ittees a y. that House, continued to take evidence during a great n. ra of then ession, and :id not come to their resolution untit„ s , period when a large portion of Members, wearied Lust The out by attention to public business, had left town. `,.,1 consequence was, that although the Committee on Officio salaries was composed of 15 Members, the Committee cam e to the decision on its final resolutions when there were 0 .;,?; eight or nine Members present, and the voting majority amounted to five or six, being an actual minority of the whole Committee. This, unfortunately, was the practice with Select Committees generally; but it was desirable tha t it should be altered, either by taking care that eviden ce ° should not run to too great a length, or that when it did! , a Committee should postpone the consideration of it until it re-appointment at the commencement of the following ees" sion. Having made these observations, he would next Pro' teed to state the opinion of the Government upon the recom mendations of the Committee. It was the desire of the Go' vernment to defer as much as possible to the express ed wishes of the Committee; and therefore they had agreed to some proposed reductions, which, nevertheless, did not seem to them to be conducive to public advantage, though, on the t other baud, thy would not be attended ' with any grea public detriment. The report of the Committee, after stating that it recommended no reduction in the salaries of the First raceme Lord of the Treasury, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the three Secretaries of State, and the First Lord of the Admi ralty, proceeded to deal with the Treasury department, and recommended that the Lords of the Treasury should receive 1,0011. a year each, instead of 1,2004, and the two secretaries 2,0001., instead of 2,5001. This recommendation the Govern ment had adopted, and had made the reductions proposed- The Committee had not proposed any alteration with respect to the offices of the Under-Secretaries of State. 'With re spect to the President of the Council, the Committee observed that this office had attached to it duties of great importance as President of the Committee of the Council of Education, and therefore they were of opinion that the salary of 2,000- was not more than an adequate compensation for the duties to be performed. In the next place, the Committee recom mended that the duties of the Railway Commission should again be discharged under the direction of the Board of Trade; in short, that with a view to save the salaries of the Railway Commission, it should be consolidated with the Board of Trade. The President of the Board of Trade, having taken this recommendation into consideration, had come to the con clusion that it could be adopted, and therefore the Railway Commissioners ceased to be separately paid officers. The, Committee then proceeded to re commen d c h at t h e office of Vice-President of the Board of Trade should be united with that of Paymaster of the Forces, and that in stead of the present salary of 2,000/. for each office, the salary for the joint-office should b 1,5001. The Committee likewise recommended that the office of Lord Privy Se" should be joined with some other office, and that no salary should be attached to that of Privy Seal. Another met ID' mendation of the Committee was that the Mastership of the Mint should no longer be a political office. The Govern' ment had endeavoured to comply with these suggestions of the Committee, as far as was consistent with the public ser vice; but at the same time it must be observed that there were some important considerations -in connexion with these proposals, suggested to the Committee by Sir R. Peel and other persons who had had great experience in public affairs , to which the Committee did not seem to have paid any at tention. It certainly appeared to him advantageous to the public service that some M em b ers of tl•e Government should hold offices the duties o f w hi c h were not so l a b o rious as to prevent them f ro m un d erta k ing the performance of other duties not immedi a t e l y connected with their own de partments. It mu s t b e o b v i ous to all persons of "Pe rience in public aff a i rs , th at from day to day, quest i o ns arose involving the perf ormance of duties not properly refer able to any particul ar departmerit, which, if not attended to by some persons no t over l oaded with ocher duties, wo uld have very little cha nce o f b e i ng attended to at a ll . If that were true, as a genera l propos i tion, at former per i o d s o f our history, it was more peculiarly so at the present time, o w f h t e h n e the Ex o rhffi e e n s e r o , o t f he t th th e e Fi S rs e t cr L e o ta r rl o s f S A t a d t m e r t a h l e t y C , Chancellor e t l h l o a r t w which be had the honour to fill, we . e so much more loaded busin ss than they ever were before. The quantity of writing and correspondence—the increase of business of va rious kinds in these offices, was so great that it was ex tremely difficult for the persons fi l ling them to discharge any dui ies not immediately connected with their own immediate departments. It frequently was necessary far the Govern ment to consider an . t dispose of some important question whieh did not belong to any department. For instance, there was the preparation of the Reform Bill, and the I nes- , sure respecting the marriages and bareism of Dissenters, which came under his consideration when he was paymaster of the Forces. If there were not s ome member of the Go vernment able, to some extent, to attend to those things it was not probable—indeed, it was hardly possible—tha t such grave matters could receive sufficient attention; but when they were prepare i the manner he had indicated the members of the Cabinet were able to consider and come to a decision upon them. This was one reason which in duced the Government to think it would be unwise to abo lish po th rt e a m. nt offices Anotherwhie h reason had notfor maintaining onerous tached these offices was that it frequen t l y happened on the formation of all new Government, or perhaps during the continuance of an existing one, that persons who had paid great attention 10 public affairs, and were fit for any office, were called into the service of the State at a time of life or in a state of health which precluded them from accepting offices that had labo rious duties connected with them. At the same time, the opinions of these persons carried with them the utmost weight, and would prove of the greatest service to the public. It might be said that a Government could secure the assistance of persons of this kind by giving them no minal offices, such as that of the Privy Seal, without sala ries attached to them. This, to be sure, might be done in the case of persons possessing e nisiderable fortunes. Men of fortun e having establishments in London might be induced t o accept great offices without salaries, but he thought the adoption of that course would establish a bad principle in the public service or this country. It was true that the course recommended by the Committee in this respect had the authority of Lord Durham in its favour. Lord Durham, admitting that the duties of the officeof Privy Seal sometimes occupied seven or eight hoursrss e a u I day d a g r e nevertheless was of opinion that, if maintained, t without salary. The tendency of any change which would offices reduce the salaries of the important to which re ference had been made would, be feared, be to make those considerable fortune. That offices attainable only by men of would be an evil. It would throw an impediment in the way of talent - in the way of men of the highest ability, who, perhaps, had gained the greatest fame in thi s or the other House of Parliament, but who could not afford to hold the offices in question. It would be mischievous to the public service to exclude persons of small for tune from these situations. There was another con sideration which was entitled to con s id era bl e weight. Any one who had marked the course of official life in this country must have perceived that Offices in the Cabinet were frequently held by men of other pursuits, who en tered into politics with a wish to take part in the service of their country without entirely abstracting themselves from their usual occupations and enjoyments. An example of this kind was the nobleman who filled the office of Lord Privy Seal, and, subsequently, of President of the Council under Sir R. Peel's Government—the Duke of Buccleucb, a man of great fo tune, who could hardly be expected to aban don all his previous occupations, for the purpose of dis charging the duties of a laborious office. It was a great advantage to attract men of this sort to official life, and if the offices in this country were filled, as in continental na tions, exclusively , by a class of men who had devoted them selves solely to official life, and were called " Bureaucrats," it would be an alteration for the worse. He remembered read ing with interest the remarks of a Frenchman of eniinenee,; 4 „, who was much atruck with what helm while atteaktirtol4