The Sun. — London, England, 1850-02-06 00:00:00

M 1 letabsr for moatrose (;:ir. flume) stand on end—(A . ~I lte li)--1. ha was w t t'ee man he used to be. Ill'' Supt to‘ls nos'ergnse ire e of the iinmense SLIMS of *llich they srere ih ith . -i;ed trustees. From 1335 to ltBl34(ls,itifiery elca,tino accounts, ° at- ° t 11 eyr)ll,::di r i l 1,31 audio, i .. I, the 1 ' p i r t i l l. i 'Ll e S t: ,(laccount of lii s e ( Pr t " :- es w l ere -d out by his elliclae"- -I 'ar) ne I ;aa ere li arj :' ant rho evidence of the seers.- ArY inin slf• Th t ere t w r aTno supervieion or control 1 anY Patty whatevcr. If any balance rernein . t, , it t ir e - e l P l4l into Lbe aceouet of the Cominissi ir. for le i: iit re never was sow belaece to speak of. The eex,, . Y or th e , :_ ,oeretary and the extravagance of the . Commis- Zen took good ease of that. me secretary did what d ke . Commis fl an d the funds which paseel into his . hands r. ,. !I . &Mount to nineh leas then a million sterling. 1 h .t l'miss ion 8 e . B . y ste m till ISIS, and . no thanks to the Cam e es , wilt it del not continue so. An asc . iden , t led , to . li e ; e a d n , l o , • The Honourable Member for Patsies , he be - u ._4 oreug,ht under the notice of the authorities, that shz.. o Me of the secretary figured in a railway hat of . 1 ~ relielders as the holder of shares to the amount of es° ,0001,ths "-(Elettr, hear.) The Commission then open( d f the resin to the extraordinary and unlimited power of ceretary over the funds, and some alteration PIS 4 iese e) e"nsequenee. They should pause for a moment i teie. raider the injury which this mode of managementon.s -o It L ed upon the Church. The funds of the C ?In t ,,r th ° i h w . ere intended to be a great national provision i e. moteighest t h e Purposes, to diminish the ignorance and pr ese se, •. 1 . . ealtuai i mprovement of an uncultivated and thasPidlS-usereaing h ition esltpopulation. The Commission was , it a vast social and spiritual rese. t. • then; nd . it was to be the source, the strength, and tkti on Y:;lf a Mighty movement for the spiritual f reg en. t er 0. ,_ et the naasses. It was to be the life 0 every _er therr`lte and the soul of every organisation for the I raigh 4 t ile h e ef the one grand object, namely, that the poor lea, t have the gospel preached to them. With a kno.w -meiho:..4ll this, of the importance of . the enterprise, tho se e rest this, of the work, Parliamerit . entrusted allat rds to the management of the Commission. halid e,' 0 4 that ( commission do? Why, . is ver the funds to their own subordir i .a n 7with , out press, I ° R a single cheek against fraud or injure h . ee sta hear) The House would not be surprised moat eons( Celt from such a mode of doing business w the ree a e,,_ ns(q•ienees followed—their affairs were ill d 'wred • .much misplaced. The two f. ,_, end their confidence 5e 41 , 4 4 .. _ , Ll that brought these matters prominently for th, erre theset—first, it was notified to the public _ _... hinter I t t ni4 jele was bankrupt, sad s ta the Prime .K . 1 111 A Et at Ott ton secretary had run away, taking with liPet. 5t,„41.4e1l Money as he could lay his hands te st i t pith the circumstances connected with these t, I ttioesi le Public had as Set a most imrrtec het , it°rge• Na vacancy had been . di cared, Wer e ; I T'lleh the usual channels of iefsrmation, they th e p' lilted of the deficiency of the funds. Perhaps iesonh'iree Minister, or one - of the Commission, would eret e - re ;he House whether it was true that the late se (le.iiieJ la I left the country? Whether there was na) , tud. aeon in the funds, the amount of that defalcation, 4 wh ether nd, a e anY steps had b( ea taken to recover . it? fiend, agats..V, whether the Ecclesiastical Commission . had 4g e n Po t h a 'd t make up the loss to the Church out of their 'Set s st ''ta?-(Elear, and a laugh.) He had taken the lie h a - ci a l,•e,t l from evidence taken before the Committee. of that Cam of the character of the composition h _ CO • 110 had be en in/ triraitee of the House of Commons. '' ) lrne,:i r _T'd, but he spoke under correction, as he had s 4 „ ,uge hillase:f on the sublect, that the Committee e 44 osieluted on two conditions—that there should b lih nli7d iscussi eu in the House, and that the members Iliat be aPproved by the Archbishop of Canterbury. lata teeanitnittee was nominat.d by arrangement, Wes ei"(rY Ee elesiastleal Commissioner in the house i s r aeed a - - of the Corn bletee . f . - Pun it. Of the members te to[i'dtve Eacteeiastical Commissioners were named eesati n , U et 4 jillicial inquiry into their own . pro of l „I'''• The bias of the otter members, if they th e '7,,, was well known to be entirely in favour tili ' -aintl ' is ' i ' ) n• That Committee conducted ani e tle,llthrouebout two sessions of Parliament. .Tll y alai ''''''''-d upon a report condemning the Comm . issioe . , I?, Proposil,,, the e . °Ntier th e, , c appointment of paid . Commissioner.. ee t , e Coreniissioners should be paid . was the es .. lll6 Core i) e ,' ;4 l 's v erY long diseussicn, and he believed that .a -scseim,---asee vvith two exc• ptions, was unanimous . I s. ai eties s ' e n ding tbe appeintment of throe paid Curis_m rn i _ ki sh i n LCI take charge ( f the temporalities} of the Co e 'ol .n. ' T he two Cabinet Ministers, members of the tltrit tee, aireated to this preposition. They thought 11 ‘asis a ll it il and responsible Commissioners, in whore 't th e i'. l 4nder whose direction the pracecal working t ooj e , t , , ,s, of the Commission should be, was preier f t „elal e ° , '",e body as then constituted. The Bishop o h`' - G ev w e ' s hed to would have one paid Commissioner from w ave ~i vfaneent, but that arrangement 'Lle wh ole More power to the Bishops, while leeiticisleie re sponsibility - of the administration t ‘ v tluai h at been thrown upon the Government. o re. a tl • tt ee, " e a •h ve b ' ll .contrary to the opinion of the . Co , , o t o d ese Commissioners fseling was that three paid C .etta of , y Supersede the _ week f or the 14st Praetieall Episcopal Board, and eels '4, axin g e ugly one day in the . • 9 1 fa ''lit!s c-` t Commission, as heretofore, addition, and iltope„sur transactiug business would be afforded, . le the ilaroritation given to parties who sought it, la it,. tlfases of the Commission, in the same manner As -48 ebitainable in other public . departments under ae c ents (S' attee k , °1 of Government. But it was obvious . that the -44 ' --Pt w °llld be made to defeat the intention of .11 41 rllltte e• Th a ) tet rad • ! effect of that effort was visible in the ;be aced Into Parliament. The Cmmissioners al t e t,t,PPeitted were redneed to two, and , one of them t lst - ": anulinated by Vie Archbishop of Canterbury. '' 4o l 4' o 4 very different thing freia the concession At -4 ' (Mr. liors sd i ,, one ow _•„ t. . roan) was induced to make, namely, `';3llil h al ' l 'Z l i . he three el missioners to be appointed 4) 0 4 wer e 4,iselntatehd by t a he a Archbishop of Canterbury. Estates Committee, the pro ; 1, 44 ) th , ! °ll , l P°SitiO o op which h a ich 41 -''' 'lauds of o w bench. Now, could any would throw more pow( al e be i iii __ .0. the episcopal )I ( ettt tht•roduced into that Hou . se better cal a c s u k l e a d ted th ta e l ' . ° l ls -" ° b4let 1 he Committee? He •Sil sl.t th li ea r ' l te a t pp rt the Comrnitt e. h Com- S I ' ti l lre -44 exeYre'sBda a control, and had tri T fled e e'tlite, 'asPea sibilit l 'e e V rdianship. They had given ith ''41.1114111111-Itteoosbealitisaftritisona, gu e a re bankrupt, and could not Their w secretary was a bankrupt,. a I' M' ati r an aZ an'''h ,th,,,lttreenter ,_,,y with their 1 1; '_'re h o eo Yeeonsmittee, composed . of their own friends, money, and, above all, in ~,'' hue inu t been found one single Member to hold up • re • liiT ll t feeZi er i t a h t a favone, and they . had unanimously en lige in the Commission as essential an i t . n o .t hitt t i l a te teAs of the Church. The duty of every m 'lke boner eutild not be mistaken. . 't°111(14IF, Prompt declaration They p w in e i r e e n , called th at of their , t• ; sexed, to put an en . d . to . a state of things -41 1 )) 1. .-- (1 (o h 4 to 'e rs t ) o the Church and injurious to true re teNt's GI.t. Y - said the Hoe. MealLer had stated with I; rkt s ' th aecu rety than he hal exhibited on forme.. o ee ti h at Qee„,o°p.ositlon of the Ecclesiastical Commi!si • 'all es esdnission had t ems charged with the administra tr ''' lune 0 tit/t ad t s' not provided by Act of Parliament, but in theposition ine rn by elect of Parliament. With regard to the 0 ‘ ; c i f the Commission he had already stated that 4teQ„tii'letilfind.s_'-m1 was too large for the convenient tran.s -?s poi nts ' ,V= nosiness intrusted to them. .T , he Commit tete a o ut the defects of the Commission and its ) „ . ,I r , lll Made some recommendations and amed ' 3 41,, a 'tll had his concurrence, but the Hon. tbizi :1. not truly Gentle he _P cl o4lti, (~.. characterised the circumstances. The tos 4 all:tea:1 the body of Commissioners was too large, h 1 114 11 ee told this naturally led to the irregular per- I tEls s the Ims'eoss and to the placing in the t i h 4 t l tn e ° 4 l % , h t h t e 'e . ecr ( t try a'greater eet'rtllti ce _ l ',? hive' been a sha e r a e se af con re s s id p e a r a i s n i g ali t i h ty e of t t h tlr t ri an t; Te t i he , bhui:iness.t the ease was prepared to proposition for an alteration Ilitre4tiNnistsitio n sa of a the e Co r m ap mission, end a 811 l was "f' vshY t ed tierce f • that purpose, the object 11 8 leh was years ago ji • management in the too Ms of s to concentrate ,the .., w i th i elas er i‘;'ne Niel commissioner. This Bet met fielt,h_illt.elC:3lincit.ion in that h House; a Committee was n since done with it. As 1 4 , s a ci s th e a n d n'. thing had h L et v ii IN gitguin..t.rt (. d f " Committee was concerned, i ni e al of two conditions having t hat . tte eethl t o._ di . inct e n it th e irobui--shthat there should h be no discussion, and should approve of ii,e'a,"tlats.—(llea•Phc'fa . Cah l f t er wa u s ry the first time he had ' dish, such conditions.— r) thee, hear.) He utterly ekeeptT'd ther e „.. ' foundation for the statement, sa ss , , a l ts, fertile , hirl ssee r.) --e l itelt ' im a a, ll 4 ,-) ination_ of the Hon. Gentleman. n Gentleman then entered 114, trleett%'APlarelautreionanli4o:f t th l e ia d th e ident of its being circumstances of:the appoint orttie-acca t tirZ itllou tcliscu ea ss ' io a n n . The unworthy suggestion 1111110, Ile w Gentleman aught not to have been reserve was resent in the beee wh en ,:_io Hon. Member the4 aB Pies ons iao Committee was a agreed he not suggest c i d to; and if he kil, 4 t th(, ti Cin the subject, why 1 :44 ( 1:' 111( R o mr s? — (Eleer.) He was not prepared to tiotis• If " it w e Member into all the charges he had Abed the , ere . necessary for the individual vindica q,q te, ho,,''lonlusioners that the charges should be re t):tls,ile4 . 1 1ati no doubt that would be done hy t T t n .l . theth, I ,apt, th lt that Housewho we e more conversant with I(; Gs he seal. - In the Substraturn oT o ee _ . which ee 114,14 tel the-ntl:'lnan's charge rested, he . n e 1 It hi ti l l 4 t' l t ee rnposition of the Commission . • h ad see rt a t ° great a share of confidence being placed kid h ':eti 4harY, which confidence, he regretted to say, was had, SlO - la Clo' l l l4 o. The secretary had left the country, hetv,eett (11_0/, an d ?cations amounted to somewhere beta, . mmt. a mon g tu.11,000/..--(ltear.) Measures had been to, the W4ltillt throe. 4 to recover as much as possible t vt , o te v ' e eetiesvgh the Secretary of the Trearry ! e rne p..,oo c:ale:pring, to ascertain what coldb pro- No tt ii* It, e ,'' ellt of the secretary's private it , A, e had (~taut not state the amount of defalcation. f , as 4 P i nt it spy as high as 70,0001., but he might e )14 " nCer 7 000/though it would probably be lf , . to ee _ , ~ , , tre e ' 'td 4 `;"e , I 6,000/. 'she Honourable Gentle - tries,!atie e. s '...r,t ‘ ed tllat secrecy had been used in this %41- l e t e _ l , l te,, tri t s t:- . (Sir G. Grey) had made no conceal- W a ' e e 44 , i after; tra-iy had spoken t ) him on the C.l erb et 4,,`;ar_nt,‘, the never taken by mystery. He the Ecclesiastical Ile d s ' iel e , ta , t th steps .. had been appointed, / / . 11 ( . io d f ,,, si . -t a Committee ,(, , _ (low ,. The 41 . ) .. m,,,,,,. 1 .;-..L , at was proper well" De fill 't ilt r `r had sa id t h e vacanc y had not been . filled a s , i c. v ,, , t 111) th r, a 1 was that Government did not intend to 1 4(1 4 4 ',''''r. rpc 1 ;;"•Y a the joint (Alice secretary and f a er f red to by the Ngr, t 4 embe r ,„' ( : )u i r d ''' in the Act re . e must sa y he e s i t ,ted th e ni , ‘. _ , be rep( aled, and he passed, t t , e, QEtrl I,,, en ""..uan heal ever been. so . unadvisedly,, . 11 otwenis te et ` t • teetii t r;' ) thletive of much mischief and i e . n int '.i master wes tided no new aise'• 111 'w I lv " I l t li " ' ' • • e•e were ils i teee -••e place, and the Commission( did net d i ` ae t a re „ 00 t t s a ls„ fill , r n Pun 'the vslancy, as they' did t e sn'' i c 4l of p ar a 's. 7 step that would fetter ts eY, wile Il eutene 11.3 way, however, bound u e t ' '' he e,free 4 1 lu IL, •JIICLIrrEd to much that had fallen it'll'irrsta:,4;i'itleo4i't'luntriihsrsaiobele, I,l"lo`.'albsr as to the compositicn re.u - st be understood to do tadis'vil e et, Jtceicurrieg in t'lo s arcasm he had harlecee,-„-;ln V cri gD-el taste. The HAL Member kai tio ee __ •seY alluded to the prelates, in his speech, eJutr ib ut9a tow and the Li - . e a work Ilethlng but exhertalions. If thu Idm. Memlee wou ld takc the treul.lo to acqua'nt birase:f with facts, he would find that the Archbishop of einLerbary and the Bishop cf London dial contribuze liberally towaids the cceicsial tic al fund.—(ft , nr, hear.) Witt. regard to the ai.pre priation of the finds Parliaa - i.nit had descrlh,d the way is which they IN ere to be apprepriited; aid though the funds is a/ not in every instance Lave been distributed with the sounde3t juilgincLt still an immense amount ef good had been done. no former had been made evailath to a get at, r extent than had I eel exreted, and by their te'igious instruction had hen given t ) ra , tuy be nig,Lt:d districts.—(tlear.) Tots would bo seen when Parlia neat obtained a return of the benefices aug mented, and the number of clergymen appointed to re v churches. That much room fir improvemeet still ex isted he was net disposed to deny. It was desirable that funds fir such purposes should he administered with scrupulous care, and he filly believed that throughout the Commizsiorers had been actuated but by one desire, that of effecting as much good as possible with them.— (Flear, hear.) With regard to the proceedings in committee, he must correct some mistakes made by the Hon. Member, whose tone evidently meant to impugn the fairness cf the composi tion cf that committee. The Hon. Gentleman alluded to five Eccl,siastical Commissioners and two Cabinet Ministers being en the commit'ee, besides the chairman, who drew up the report, being a brother of the Pt elate. No one could assert that any attempt had been made to prejudice a fair inquiry, or that the unanimous report was entitled to less value on account of the presence of those members.—(Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had as serted that the committee recommended there should be a separate board of three Commissioners, to whom was to be referred all estate funds. Such, however, was not his impression.' The committee, after lull consideration of the evidence, concurred in recommending a change in the composition cf the Commission—that there should be a separation of powers in the general affairs and in the management of the property. Tho great feature in the interests of the Church was to be confined to the large: body, the management of the funds to the smaller body. Three paid Commissioners were named, two t, be nominated by the Crown, and one by the Archbishop of Canterbury; but these Commissioners were not to supersele the other Commissioners. They were to give increased weight to the exertions and views of tee gene ral body of the Commissioners by the nature cf their appointment, which would demand that their whole time and attention should be given to the affairs of the Com mission. The Hon. Gentleman had said tl at he (Sir G. Grey) concurred in that resolution. He did cer tainly. He gave full credit for the suggestion ; and if ho had been present himself on the ocea sion he would have supported the motion flr the appointment c f three paid Commissioners. The Bill of last year was funded substantially on the report of that Committee. Tho Hon. Gentleman was inaccurate as to the Church Estates Commission. It authorised three Church State Commissioners; one to be named by the Crown, and ene by the Archbishop of Canterbury, and he thought there were objections to placing persons in official situations on such committees as members or commissioners. He thought that such a Committee should be a small body, composed only of those who could give their undivided attention to it. On further consideration during the last session the Bill became the subject of modification, a' al his Noble Friend proposed last te3sion to commit the Bill pro fornta, with a view to introduce various altera tions before the measure should come to the House for consideration ; and one of those alterations went to correct what was required, because it reduce I the committee to the officasl numbers, Now; the Ilan. Gentleman asked the House to anticipate the discussion, which had much better be taken in the CommiVees on the Bill, the second reading tf which was fixed fir next Monday in the House of Lords. He did not exactly know what might be the position of business in the House of Lords, but there was every reason to suppose that the Bill would come down to the Commons in a reasonable time. If the Hon. Gentleman thought that there should lie three paid Commissioners receiving salaries, he might ask the House t.) reject the Bill if it, did not provide accordingly. But he hoped the House would not on the pi e;erit occasion do that which would be almost an unprecedented act, namely, bt.f,i)e a Bill now in the ether House had come down them, to plodge themselves that the Bill should not pass that douse without it retained the clause for re-tainin:z three paid Commissioners. He thought it was inexpedient to anticipate a discussion which would most prof erly ari4e in the Committee. Ho would not say any thing in favour of two or three paid Commissioners!, but whenever the time came the Honourable Gen.. Heenan should have ample opportunity to go into detail. He asked the House not to discuss now whether there ought to be two or three paid Commis sioners, and here he must be permitted a word or two on another matter. He was almost ashamed to allude to a letter which had been written some little time since to the Hon. Gentleman's constituents at Cockermouth—he could scarcely condescend to notice it. 13at the Hon. Gentleman had not thought it expedient to repeat in that House the personal charge he bad trade of gross dishonesty, and of a wilful fraud having been practised upon him in reference to the Bill of last year by him (Sir G. Grey). The llon. Gentleman had not maintained the charge in his presence, and therefore he would not condescend to notice the matter further; but if he had abstained from doing so it was because, so long as the words formed part of a column in a newspaper, or were identified with a newspaper controversy, he did not think them worth commenting on, because every Hon. Gentle • man must know that the Hon. Gentleman must have been drawing largely on his imagination in his descrip tion of a scene which never could have taken place in moving the Bill pro forma. He abstained from sayirg more, because the Hon. Gentleman had net thought proper to reiterate what he had asserted. Mr. HUME thought the country LOA a right t scorn- . p'ain of the Government f allowing such abuses to continue so long. It was the duty of the Executive to have interfered, and his Hon. Pieced was entitled to credit for persevering in bringing this subject under no tice.—(clear, hear.) He hoped the time was coming when Parliament would exclude the Bishops from having any share in the administration of the ecclesiastical pro perty.—(A laugh.) He (Mr. Hume) felt it his duty twenty-five years ago to overhaul the Church—(A laugh)—and no man in the country was more vilified in consequence, He was proclaimed from altars and from pulpits us an Atheist—and this was dose by the clergy to cloak the abuses of the Church.—(Hear, he ar.) But it had no effect upon him. —(A laugh, and " Hear, hear.") The House had abolished sinecures in the army and navy, and why should they continue to allow sine cures in the Church?—(Hear, hear.) Mr. AGLIONBY agree 1 with the Hon. Member for Montrose that the House and the country were indebted to his Hon. Colleague for having brought forward this subject. He was sorry to see that a soreness exist‘d on the part of the Right Hen. Gentleman (Sir G. G rey) on the subject of a letter which his Hon. Colleague had written, and he trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would also be sorry for the expressions he had used. Lord J. RUSSELL (in a low tone to the Hon. Mem ber) —A Cabinet Minister cannot ba sorry for his ex pressions. Mr. AGLIONBY thought, nevertheles 3 , that the Right Hon. Gentleman would be sorry for the expres sions he had used when lie came to reconsider them. The Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken of the assertions of his Hon. Colleague as having no foundation except in the " fertile imagination" of his Hen. Colleague. Now, these assertions were both true as 'netters ( 6 4 fact, be cause it was true that there was no discussion upon the appointment of ti - e Committee, and it was also true that the name; were submitted to the Archbishop of Canter bury. Ilis Hon. Colleague, he believes', did not intend to represent that the Committee was an unfair Commit tee.—(" Hear," from Mr. Horsmae). It should also be remembered that his Hon. Colleague had given notice of his present motion before the Bill was brought into the other House. He believed that if the public had known tee large amount of money that was about to be vested in the Commission it would never have been appointed. Anything more pernicious than locking up so great an amount of property, to be managed by an ecclesiastical commission, could not well he conceived. The best constituted commission in the world ought net to have possession of the rest amount of property which had come into the hands of this Ccernmis3icn. It would get into its management, or rather into its mismanage ment, 8,000,0001. or 9,000,04)0/. of property, and no commission could give satisfaction in its mode of ad ministering such vast estates. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY hoped the Hon. Member f it Cockermouth would consent to withdraw his motion. He had always regarded the composition of the Commis sion as highly dangerous, and was, from the first, pre pared to expect that great mischief would arise from it. The fact that the secretary was closely connected with railways, and that he was immovable in a commission composed of about 50 members, might have led to the idea that mischief would fellow, and he thought it was the bounden duty of the House to place the Commission on a ssfer footinse. Sir R. H. INGLIS was certainly somewhat surprised to hear the Hon. Member for Cockermouth (Mr. Aglionby) state that such was the mangement of the Ecclesiastical Commission that he thought in the course of a few years it would have under its control property to the amout of 9,000,0001. or 10,000,000 1 ., for he apprehended that it the whole ecclesiastical revenue of England in the hands of laymen, of corporations, end of bishops was vested in the hands of t'le Commissioners it would not amount to one -third of that sum. —(Hear.) Ile was not there to defend the Ecclesiastical Commission; for ever since its institution he had opposed it, as a great violation of the rights of property vested in the ecclesiastical body, and in the hands of individual pastors and rectors of parishes—vested in them not by the state, not by kings, but by private individuals. He should be ashamed of himself, however, if ho could sit in that House and hear such laeg,uege as he had hoard feom the Hon. Member for Cockermouth (Mr. Horsrean), belies itetce it to be un substantiated in fact, and not rise to g ive it a decided denial. The Hon. Member spoke of the treasures of the poor having been squandered and exhausted by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners. He denied the charge as emphatically as the Hon. Member could make it. The " treasures of the poor" had not been in the hands of the Commissioners, and therefore they could not have squandered and exhausted them. Then the Hon. Gen tleman spoke of the bishops having given exhortations to the laity to contribute ; but did he mean to say that they gave nothing but their exhortations?— (Hear, hear.) If he did not mean that, what did he mean ? (ricer, hear.) His object clearly was that the House and the country should be left under the impression that the bishops were reedy enough to take from the pockets of other reople, but net to dip into their own. Now, be would state as a fact, his belief of which he had not ventured to make public before, that, in order to insti tute bishopric of Manchester, the Archbishop of Canterbury, now deceased, the Bishop of London, hap pily still preserved in ,if and, he thought, the late Archbishop of York, cos tributed each a sum whi.di amounted its the aggregate to 2,5001. a year.—(Hear.) The Ron. Member had drawn a powerful contrast green a ptimitive bishDp and ono of the present day; but perhaps the for. Member would draw a similar con trast betwt.ca the laity of a primitive age and of the Ft sent. In Apostolic times the primitire Christians setae example which it would be well for all to follow; but the lion. Gentleman fjrgot that in the altered const . to tion of society, and above all in such a state of things as exist-,l in E,:gland, they had different ranks or society and different duties t, perform; and he defied him to produce a singe year in the history of England since the first outlines of it; existing constitution began, in whioli the bishops did not hohl a prominent place as the first estate of the realm.—(Hear, hear.) lle objected to these Commissions, because their tendency was to con vert the hierarchy of England, and indeed all the hum bler clergy of the establishment, into stipendiaries. — (Hear.) That he knew to be the object of the lion. Member for Montrose, and he believed it to be the object also of the Hon. Member for Cockermouth—Arcades antho ! The lion. Member for Montrose told them that twenty-five years ago he was the only Church reformer. Mr. HUME—Not the only one. Sir R. IL INGLIS—At least almost the only one in that House. He wished 1 - . e was the only Church re former now. The Hon. Member for Cockermonth said the bishops would not withdraw their "grasp" from the property of the Church. Did he mean to say that the bishops had not a statutable right to the property committed to them ?—and did he expect that they would withdraw their grasp from their own property? Protesting against the language used by the Hon. Mem ber for Cockermoutb, and protesting against the ten dency of these measures, he trusted her Majesty's Ministers would be prepared to resist the present motion, and that the House would concur in such resistance, leaving the discussion of the whole question till the Bill which had been re,f,,rred to came down from the other House.—(Hear ' hear.) Mr. EVELYN DENISON said, as the House had done him the hemmr, on his motion, to grant a Committee to inquire irt o the condition and management of the Ec clesiastical Commission, and as the Committee did him the honour to desire him to draw up the report, he felt that perhaps ho had failed in his duty in not taking an earlier opportunity to bring the whole matter before the House. But it was a case of great difficulty, of greet magnitude and importance; and as the Government had consented to take the matter into their own halide, and adopt the recommendation of the Committee, he felt he should best accomplish the object he had in view, and best discharge his duty both to the Committee and the House, by leaving the Government, which was really the proper medium for doing so, to carry the mea sure through the House.—(Hear, hear.) He endea voured in that Committee to conduct the inquiry to the best of his belief—seat ching for the truth, at the same time being desirous of not creating unnecessary per sonal annoyance to any one.—(Hear, hear.) Arid he must say, as something had been I aid in the course of the debate of the Members of the Committee, that he felt he owed a great obligation to the two Right lion. Gentlemen opposite for the fairness and candour with which they entered into the inquiry and the great ser vices which they performed on the Committee.—(Hear, hear.) If he had erred in not bringing this matter for ward he had only to say that ho was anxious to save the time, of the House, and as it was entirely contrary to his habits to make a speech, merely for the sake of a epees)), he refrained from doing so, as he believed that everything that was necessary would he done by Go verement —(Hear, hear.) Some questions had been ad dressed to him by the two Members for Cocker mouth. The Honourable Gentleman Who intro duced the subject asked him whether, as re garded tf e composition of the Committee, a sort of bar gain had been made that the subject should be introduced without discussion; and he also asked him whether it was not another bargain that the names of the Com mittee should be submitted to the Archbishop of Can terbury. The Right Hoe. Baronet (Sir G. Grey) had explained satisfactorily to the House what really was the state of the case as regarded the first question. So far as he (Mr. Denison) was concerned, the only bar gain he made was, that if they gave him his Committee as an unopposed motion, he would be content; and he did not find it necessary to make any observations.— (Hear, hear.) As to the second question, he would an. ewer it by giving it the most straightforward contradic ton. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Horsman) had come to him eted asked whether be did not remember some thing that took place in the lobby of the House that led him to make the staterceat that the'names of the Com mittee were to be referred to the Archbishop of Canter bury. Tho Hon. Gentleman stated positively that some thing of that kind had occurred. All he (Mr. Denison) could say wile, that he would not speak positively, but that to the best of his recollection nothing of the sort ever occurred.—(Bear, hear.) He had asked his Noble Friend at the head of the Government if he would be so kind as to refresh his recollection as to whether any reference of the names of the Committee was to be made to the Archbishop of Canterbury. Be could state positively that be had no direct communication with the Archbishop in regard to this Committee. His Noble Friend said he had positively no communication with the Archbishop with regard to the names; and, therefore, what the channel of communication with the Archbishop was, if such communication there was, he could not tell.- (hear, hear.) He must say that he should have thought he was not acting fairly by Hon. Members if he was to ask any geatleman to enter into a committee of inquiry which was to be bound by any re strictions whatever.—(Hear, hear.) He asked that House whether in the course of the time he had had a seat in it there was anything in his conduct that could lead them to suppose he was capable of acting in such a manner.—(Cheers.) He would go a step eurther. It had been said that the gentleman who was chairman of the Committ :6 was the brother of a prelate. lie would ask if any gentleman in that House had observed any thing in his conduct that could justify such an imputa tion as that statement might imply.—(Cheers.) It had also been said that several members of the Ecclesiastical Commission had seats in the Committee. Now, in selecting the members of that Committee he wished to have 'gentlemen upon it who were cognizant of the sub ject' and he was anxious that gentlemen connected with the EcclesiasticarCommissfon should take part in the inquiry: Heliad confidence in the strength of his case; and he would ask if it was not a great deal more satis factory to that House, and to the country, that the re port should emanate unanimously from a Committee composed dell sides, and some of them members of the Commission, than if it had come from a Committee differently constituted ?—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the subject which had been' introduced to the notice of the‘House, he would pursue the course taken by others, and refrain from entering upon a discussion of it. Ile must state, however; that any gentleman who diligently read the inquiry would find many painful ,f acts—many things that must excite regret. —(le an hear.) It might be necessary to have a full discussion of the details of the Bill introduced into the other House when it;came be fore them. He would, however, observe, that since the Committee sat, and since the report was made, two cir- cuinstances of some importance had occurred. One had Lent referred to the defalcation of the secre tary.—(Hear, hear.) The Commission was so jealous of the funds cemmittsd to their charge, so scrupulous of the expenditure of every farthing, that they would not consent to have a commissioner whose salary would be aid from the funds of the church. He must say that he should have thought a commission intrusting such large sums of money to any individual would have taken those precautions to procure that proper amount ef security which was always expected from any persons into whose hands money was placed.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped, however, that this money of the:Church would not be lost. There was another point to which he would le far. A Commission had been issued to inquire into and report on the better management of Church property, and the Noble Lord • had told them that the report of that Commission would be laid on the table of the Home that evening. He would for a moment assume that for the better conduct of these matters, for the pro per management of the affairs of the Church, some cen tral board, to act as an arbitrator and an umpire, should be :appointed ; and he would ask the Noble Lord whether it was possible that the Ecclesiestical Com mission, as now constituted, could be that board of reference? He had no hesitation in sayirg, fact it was impossible.—(Hear, hear.) He must frankly tell the Noble Lord that if he proposed to have two Com missioners inst gad of three, he would, of course, be ready to hear all the arguments that might be urged, but his impression was that it was absolutely necessary they should have that number of Commissioners, and no fe .ver.— (lie an) Be trusted, in conclusion, that after what bad occurred on both sides of the House, the Hon. Gentleman would not think it necessary to ask the House to divide upon his motion.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. MANGLES felt that a hard measure of justice had been dealt out to his Hon. Friend the Member for Cockermouth. In one essential respect his Hon. Friend (Mr. Horsman) had been entirely misunderstood, not only by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir G. Grey), but by his Hon. Friend (Mr. E. Denison), as to the observa tions made by his friend (Mr. Horsman) in regard to the constitution of the Committee whose report they were considering. He most clearly understood his Hon. Friend to speak of the constitution of the Committee, not as at all disparaging it—far from it—but as an argument a fortiori in support of its own recommendations. His Hon. Friend said, "Here was a Committee composed of a great number of the members of the Ecclesiastical Commission, and of several Ministers of State, and whose chairman was a brother of a Right Rev. Prelate; if these Right Hon. and lion. Gentlemen had any prejudices, they must-be supposed to have a leaning towards the proceedings of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners; there fore, if such a Committee had come to the conclusion that it was absolutely necessary that three lay Commis sioners should be added to the Ecclesiastical Commission, it wai'un argument a fortiori (and in that sense only, and not at all invidiously, was it urged by his Hon. Friend) that the measure of legislation which the GC vernment intended to bring forward should be based upon that foundation—namely, that there should be three lay Members on the Ecclesiastical Commission. The Honourable Member fir the University of Oxford had dealt somewhat hardly with his Hon. Friend. They all knew that Hon. Member's affection for the Church, but he (Mr. Mangles) was certain that there was not a warmer friend to the. Establishment than the Member for Cockermouth. They might have different views as to the test means of promulgating the Gospel, or by which the Church might be best supported—the Hon. Baronet might he for giving greater power and greater wealth to the heads of the Church, while 'his Hon. Friend, though far from wishing to reduce the heads of the establishment to a stipendary.condition, might be of opinion that the best way of steenghtening the establish • went was to increase the means, power, and efficiency of the working clergy of the Church; and he (Mr. Mangles) very believed that those views had tho support not only of is great tarte r , f emajority of the the body cf th e la 3 men of h working e clergy, tes b ta u also of a very le.g blished Church. Mr. HORSM AN, in reply, obierved that if the pro perty of the Church was nut (as the lion. Bar on et ,cre h n a o d t admitted) the property of t he bisho p s, then he would ask, whose property was it? If the bishops m the pr iprieters then they must be trustees. He (Mr. Horsman) contended that the funds were not the pre- Forty of the bishops, het of ate Church. The dant . - ence b t Neon the Honourable Baronet and himself was shortly this: the Honourable Baronet considered the bishops to be the masters of the Church, while he (Mr. Horsman) conside:od them to be its servant=. The Right lion. Baronet (Sir G. Gicen and the Hon. Member fir Malt sn (Mr. E. Denison) had shown considerable adroit noes in leading the House away from what was really the point in discussion. The Right Hon. Baronet had most materially misrepresented what he (Mr. Horsman) had said as to the character and feelings of the Members constituting the Commitee, whose recommendation he was desirous of seeing carried into effect. He assured the Right Hon. Baronet that he had never said that the Members of that Committee had entsrel upon their la bours with an intention not to do justice; or that they had motives unfriendly to the Ecclesiastical Commission. What he said war, that the Committee was composed of gentlemen of the highest character, the greatest experi ence, and cf the most extensive influence in this coun try. If he had Be t expressed himself correctly, he most certainly had intended to say that it would be impossible to select a Committee against whom it would be more difficult to find an objection, or whose con duct it would be more impossible to impugn. With re gard to what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Melton (e[r. E. Delison) he begged to observe that as to whether there was an arrangement that the tames of the Committee should be submitted to the Arch bishop of Canterbury, he had made no positive state ment on the point in his opening speech; he only said that he had be ea gives to understand so. There was only one further observation which bed fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet upon which he (Mr. Horsman) wished to say a word. The Right Hoe. Baronet had said that he (Mr. Horsman) had not ventured to reiterate the assertions he had made in the letter be had addressed to his constiteente. There was one good reason why he had not dote so. He had in that House a public ques tion to discuss, and he did not think it right that a public question should be mixed up with personal mat ters. The Right Hon. Gentleman had chargsd him with having shrank from repeating in that House that which he had asserted elsewhere. Now, he had been a Member of the House of Commons for fifteen }ears, and that man must have been in that House for fifteen years to very little purpose if he did not know that in ventur ing to make such a statement as he had made out of doors he was doing an act which might be attended with very serious consequences. He (Mr. Horsman) was fully aware of that. He knew that by making such a statement ho placed himself in a position of great responsibility and of no small peril. He knew that the very publication of such a statement was very dangerous, and was likely to place him in a very critical position, because, in the first instance, it must prejudice every impartial person against' the man who made such an ac cusation; and must enlist the sympathies cf every right minded man in favour of those who were so focused. But, notwithstanding all that—notwithstanding the knowledge he had cf the responsibility and of the perils he might incur, he deliberately wrote his state ment, and published it as a letter; and on the first day that Parliament met he gave notice of his present mo tion. Having done se, he thought the Right Hon. Ba ronet might have taken a different course from that which he had thought it fit to adopt ; he might have avoided all allusion to the subject, or he—(Here the Hon. Member sunk his voice so low that he became inaudible in the gallery.) But he had no disposition to make any further remarks upon the subject. The Right Hon. Baronet having, however, insinuated that I.e (Mr. Uorsmen) had shrunk from repeating the state ment he had made elsewhere, he did nut wish the House to be under the impression that he was at all disposed to retract any portion of that statement.—(The Hon. Gen- Vecnan here made some further observations, but none of which reached the reporters' gallery.) Ho con cluded by saying, that since he bal given notice of his reolution P, Bill had been introduced in the House of Lords on the subject, and he was not therefore disposed t goc came with his m m n e downfrom r o motion the i otherat present; House b h u o t s w h h o u e n l d t b h e e ques tionready y to give it a full discussior. Tho motion was then, by leave, withdrawn. tfr. IL DRUMMOND obtained leave to bring in Bill to facilitate the transfer of real property. On the motion of Sir R. INGLIS, a standing Com mittee of sixteen Members was appointed to assist the Speaker in the direction of the library, and to whom should be referred all matters relating thereto. Air. MOFFATT moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to bankrupt Members of the House cf Commons, and to facilitate the recovery of debts from such Members. The Hon. Member said the Bill was the same in principle as the one he introduced last year. Sir G. GREY had no objection to the introduction of the Bill; but, after the experience of last 3 ear, he could not promise the Hon. Member his support. Leave was then given. THE ARCTIC EXPEDITION. Sir R. INGLIS moved for copies of any reports or statements from the officers employed in the Arctic ex peditions, or from any other persons, which have bean laid be fore the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty in respect to the resumption of the search for Sir John Franklin's expedition ; of any plan or plans of search, whether by ships or boats, up to the present date; copy or extracts from any correspondence or proceedings of the Board of Admiralty in relation to the Arctic expe dition (since the date of the last return to this House in 1849) ; copies of the orders issued by the Board of Ad miralty to Captains Collinson, Kellett, and Moore, and to Lieutenant Pullen ; and also copy of the instructions given to Dr. Rae through the Hudson's Bay Com pany ; e f any reports made by any officer or officers employed in the late expeditions and addressed to the Board of Admiralty ; and of the latest chart of the Pclar Sea compiled by order of the Board of Admi ralty. It Ras not necessary, in making this motion, that he should quote any precedent in its sup port. It was one in respect to which he hoped he should have the same cordial concurrence of the House as he experienced in respect to the last motion he made on the subject. At the same time, though he was aware that there was not, technically, any opposi tion to the production of the papers, yet be would not conceal from the House that his object was not simply to obtain those papers, but to induce the House to ex press the same sympathy with the subject to which the papers adverted as had been done on a former occasion. He was desirous of exciting an expression of sympathy with those of their fellow-countrymen who were now passing their fifth year—if God should have spared their lives—amid the horrors of an Arctic winter. He would earnestly urge upon her Majesty's Ministers to take such measures for the relief of their fellow-countrymen as their own zeal and as the science of those by whom they were surrounded might teach them t 3 be the most applicable for the purpose —that of rescuing Sir John Franklin and those who were associated with him; that they would, in f act, do what they had on a former occasion dune in sending forth an expedition in search of that gallant officer and his gallant crew. The Government ought but slightly to esteem that person who could move fur even a slip of paper in reference to future proceedings, who did not at the same time acknowledge what they had already done upon the subject. At the same time he was bound to urge upon them not to lose a month, a week, a day, or even an hour in se ?king to release those gallant men from their perilous positi on; for ON cry former expedition had failed, if not entirely, or principally, yet in some measure at least from not having been sent forth from this country at an earlier period. He believed that during last month all the crews of the whalers were en gaged for the ensuing season; and that hardly any whalers would remain i n t hi s country by the en d o f M arch. In order that the sea rc h might be effectual, it ought to commence in Baffin's Bay a t th e e nd of May, or the beginning of June, so that it might take advantage of the first opening in J u ly. H e venture d to h o p e , w ith out wishing to disparage any other mode of search, that her Majesty's Government an d the Lor d s C omm i ss ioners of the Admiralty would t a k e i nto cons id erat i on the expe diency of applying steam navigation directly and prima rily in the search. It was not the suggestion of Sir J. C. Ross, but of his predecessor Sir John Ross, that steam paddles might be used with great advantage, provided they could be adapted to the vessels. He (Sir R. Inglis) had learned from high authority that the mea sure was not only practicabl adapted and applied most usefu ll y i n su ch an enterprise. He would a!so su ggest that insteadebuot mi ght be easily of two vessels being emploned the sam e amount of tonnage s hould he distri buted among four vesse l s. Th e o bj ec t was not so much to go from one point to another as to make a search in all directions. Supposing four vessels should go out, he would suggest that eac h vesse l should be independent of the others. A stimulant would thus be given to the energy of each, and greater results would probably fallow than could be secured by any other mode. He had not raid a word on the subject as being one connected with humanity, with national honour , or with science; but the cause of humanity ought to compel them, and a feeling of national honour ought to induce them to do what he now urged upon her Majesty's Govern ment, without a word being 'said about science. For what did they hear at the close of the last ses 3 inn ? That the Governments of two other States were engaged in making preparations for rescuing our own countrymen. He believed there was no precedent in history of one nation sending forth an expedition to rescue the lives of the subjects of . another nation. He did not know whether, either in the case of Russia or e f the United States, their hopes had been realised, but the honour of England required that efforts should be made by England herself to resstte her owes countrymen. It had been suggested that the use of small balloons would facilitate the search. He gave no opinion upon the sub ject, but he understood that such a mode might be made subsidiary to the other means employed. This was not a private question; be would not, therefore, introduce private considerations, but when ho reflected on the extraordinary conduct of the wife of Sir John Franklin, of her self-denying efforts in the cause of her husband and of his companions; when he considered the hun dreds of persons who were interested in the fate of the husbands and brothers now engaged in that expedition, he thought he did not unreasonably prefer his suit to the First Lord of the Admiralty when he expresso I a hop that he would take the subject into consideration, not merely from a sense of humanity toe a-ds those who were missing, or from a ser.se of na tional honour, or from a consideration for the cause of science, but also from a sympathy for the anguish and s . ' that had been felt by so many of 61.191,C1.0th05e who, though breathing the same genial air with ourselves at home, were s „fy rr i D g for those who were now separated from them, end were existing in the regions of an ice bound zone. He had reason to hope that his Right Lion. Friend wee not only prepared to conceie the Ipapers he had asked• , for, but to indicate t o t h e H ouse at once that it was the firm intention of the Government to comply with the suggestions that had been made. Mr. A NnTley, in secoucliug the motion, said he wished to draw tho attention of the light Hon. Baronet • - 1 which em snaten, be believed, fro m aentle g te a re•0,,054 matt named lll`Cortnaclinsho wise formetly surgeon of the Erebus, one of the missing vessels, when it was engaged in the Antarctic expedition, that there should he a t tx pedition to be carrie on mainly by boats having u vessel as a point d'appui at the head of Baflin's Bay, t ) inves• ttt; e Smit`i Sound, Jones's Sound, and the Wellington Chasm'. The impoi t ince of the suggesti )n restrd on the hypothesis that from the long time that had elapsed since the missing vessels were stun, they might conclude that if nay of the officers or men were now in exiAtenc., they were arrested at some poi❑t between which and the habitablf,s. ragions cf the globe there was no cummunica don, and, therefire, probably they would be found in the neighbourhood of Parry's Island, that being in the direc tion in which Sir J. Franklin was to proceed. The author cf the suggestlon had volunteered to take the command of the boats engaged in the very arduous enterprise, and as the only question of expense was the outlay necessary to enable him to reach the point indicated on board a whaler, which might be employed to carry out the object in other quattars, ho hoped that it would not be neg lected. Sir. F. T. BARING said he was much obliged to his Hon. Friend for giving him the opportunity, and he had intended to take the first, of stating the course the Go vernment prcposed to pursue with regard to this expe dition. He had thought it right, however, as the time for sending the expedition had arrived, that the Govern ment should take upon itse!f the responsibility of not de laying the expedition to Behring's Straits. He would now state that it was the intention of the Government to send out an expedition in search of Sir J. Franklin from the - caitward of Lancaster Sound; bat he thought it better to reserve the details of the course adopted by the Government, and to lay them on the table in the shape of a minute or paper, as they were not at present entirely fixed. He could assure the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Youghal, that although he was quite ready and anxious to give the most respectful attention to every suggestion on the matter, many of the proposals which he had heard that evening hal been previously , made to the Government, and had been much con sidered by them, and they would endeavour to adopt those which they really believed t 9 be the mot efficient for the object they had in view. He thought it right to state that he had never done the House of Commons or the country the injustice to sup pose that expense would be an obstacle when the lives of their fellow-men were at stake.—(Bear, hear.) The time might unfortunately come when they would have no right to risk lives in such a service, but he did think V( ere still lemained such a hope of the existence of these persons from the advice and opinion of those who were better able than others to form an opinion on the sub ject, as justified the Government in taking every mea sure which they could fairly and properly take to give assistance if possible—at any rate to ascertain the fate of our unfortunate countrymen. At the same time, whilst he did not underrate the va!ue of the extension of science and of geographical knowledge, he had not undertaken these expeditions for the purpose of such ex tension, but for the sole purpose of saving the lives of the men engaged in Sir J. Franklin's expedition. His Imperial Majesty the Emperor of Russia had most cor dially and kindly afforded every assistance in his power, and he was also bound to state that the Hudson's Bay Company had not only acceded to every representation that was made to them, but had volunteered several measures which they thought might secure the object in view. Mr. WYLD was extremely glad to hear that it was not the intention of the Government to make any greater sacrifice of life and money upon expeditions conducted like the former one. He believed that all persons who had paid any attention to the subject knew well that, the state of the current being from west to east, the expe dition 13 ad to encounter not only the perils of the season, but an immense accumulaP.ion of ice from the west to the east, caused by the flow of the tide. He entertained a confident hope that Sir John Franklin WAS still alive, and that he was most probably detained at the southern portion of Melville Island. It would be presumptions in him, of course, to suggest what course the Government ought to adopt; but, et the same time, he thought it very desirable that a communication should be attempted with the portion of that country not hitherto explored, by means of a land expedition. A largo sum of money had already been expended to no purpose, but in future searches the chances of success would be far greater if' the discoveries were made from the laud and not from the sea.—(lie bear.) Sir R. H. INGLIS thanked the Right Hon. Gentle man, the First Lord of the Admiralty, for the state ment he had made, which he was sure would give satis faction to the House and to the country. The motion was then agreed to. COUNTY FINANCIAL BOARDS. Mr. M. GIBSON moved for leave to bring in a Bill to establish county financial boards for the assessing cf county rates, and for the administration of county ex penditure in England and Walee, but made no farther observations upon it. Mr. FREW EN simply seconded the'motion. Mr. DISRAELI said, before this question was put he should like to inquire of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had moved it in a manner so suspiciously quiet.— (A laugh.) Last session, when he (Mr. Disraeli) brought before the House his motion on local taxation, the Right Hon. Gentleman favoured the House with an ingenious speech, the object of which was to prove that the occupiers of land did not pay the rates, but the owners of the soil paid them. Now he wished, before leave was given for the introduction of this Bill, that the Right Hon. Gentleman, with that candour which distinguished him, would answer the question he was now going to put to him. What was his opinion in proposing to introduce this project of law? What was his opinion on this highly import int and interesting sub ject?—(A laugh.) Was it his opinion that the occu piers of land did pay those rates? He supposed that to be the Right Hon. Gentleman's present opinion, as be was now proposing a representative government which could only be the consequence of that conviction. But if that were his re al opinion, then he (Mr. Disraeli) should take leave to remind him and his friends that on another occasion they would have the opportunity of supporting a proposition which he should make to the House. Mr. M. GIBSON said that that was not the time to enter into such a discussion as the Hon. Gentleman in vited him to commence—(Hear)—but if it were true, as he had often heard, that the interests of the landlord and tenant-farmers were one, the Hon. Gentleman could not object to the tenant-farmers having a voice in controlling the expenditure of the country.—(Sear, hear.) It must, however, be admitted that, although the occupier would in the first instance pay the rate, in the ultimate settle ment between the landlord and the tenant it would fall on the owner. Mr. NEWDEGATE wished to ask whether, consider ing the smallness of the sums administered by the ses sions, it was worth while to overturn a system which had existed for years and establish a nominal control in the rate-payers? Almost all the expenditure of counties was now under the control of the Home-office, and it would be absurd to establish great machinery for an in significant object. Z;Mr. HUME said that the principle of the Bill was the same ae that which was hefore the House last ses sion, and its object was, simply, to place ratepayers in counties on the same footing as ratepayers in boroughs, by giving them some countrol over the expenditure. Sir E. INGLIS made a general suggestion to the effect that when there was anything in the title of a Bill, or the speech of the Member moving for leave to intro duce it, which indicated that it was one which the Go vernment could not support, Ministers should at once oppose its introduction.—(Hear, hear.) It was the custom at present to allow a number of Bills to be in troduced, which, after occupying several Wednesdays in unprofitable discussion, finally met the fate which they merited at first—rejection.—(Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY expressed his concurrence to a certain extent in the suggestion of the lion. Baronet; but, as to the present Bill, he was nct prepared to express op position to its principle. Mr. STAFFORD said that the question wat whether the incidence of taxation fell upon the owner or the occupier of land, and with respect to this question the Hon. Member for Manchester blew hot and cold. It Ras too much the habit of Hon. Gentlemen opposite to an nounce what they called a great principle—to declare that they were determined to stand by it, and on the fallowing evening to do that which would practically abrogate it. It was only last week the mover of the Address told the House that the incidence of property fell upon the owner of the had. Now this great prin ciple was qualified by the Right Hon. Member for Man chester and the HAL Member for Montrose.—(Hear, hear.) The principle was a vital one, and Hon. Members must not be permitted to blow hot and cold with respect , to it. _ _ . Mr. AGLIONBY concurred with the Hon. Member for Oxford University is thinking that Government ought not to indulge the propensity of certain Members to introduce useless Bills for dull Wednes day debates.—(Hear, hear.) If Ministers were bound to support all the measures which they allowed t ) be brought in they would soon see the necessity of checking the practice. As it was they caused lice. Members to suppose that these Bills would obtain their support, but in the end they found that, although they might have their good wishes, they could not get their votes. With respect to the question before the House, he would not undertake then to ee 43rtnine wheti.er the rates fell upon the owner or the occupier; bat wheerer it was, that party ought to have the control of their expenditure.—(' Hear, hear," from the Oppo sition benches.) In his opinion there could not be a worse body for administering the rates than the magis trates. They were appointed by the Lord-Lieutenants, and had no interest in common with the ratepayers except in as far as they were owners of property.. Sir J. PAKINGTON agreed with the last speaker that the rates should be administered by the persons who paid them, and those were the owners of land. The change proposed by the Bill involved most important considerations connected with criminal justice, and he hoped that the Government would not support it. Mr. FREWEN said he was compelled to oppose his Hon. Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire on this occasion. When the Bill was before the House last year he supported it ; and he had since received resolutions, adopted at several farmers' clubs in his division of Sus sex, approving of the course which he had token on that occasion. The expenditure for the Rest Division of Sussex had doubled between 1834 and 1843, and hal considerably increased again since the latter period. In the present mode of raising and administering county rates, that principle of the British Constitution which declared that the people should not be taxed except through their representatives was wholly dhrogerded. Ia some counties an extraordinary system of fevouritiem prevailed as regarded the appointment of magistrates ; ,r it was found that gentlemen of large property were passed over, Whilst others who were possessed of compa ratively little property were nominated.—(HoQr.) Mr. DISRAELI said that the Hon. Member far East Sussex Vi as not in the lichee when be (Mr. Disraeli) spoke, w.herwi.“3 he would have known that he had not, at present, said a word iteaicet Vie Bill, i but only called kyr S definition of the princip l e on which t was introduced. M-. HENLEY requested that Government would no :cave the inAgistracy responsible fir the peace cf the country and the care of gaols, and deprive them of the means of effecting those objects.— (Hear.) Sir G. GREY said that he would not consent to ex clu,',e the magistracy f,oni cll contr.il over county rater. Mr. HEYWOOD said that the Bill would lc aTe large share of power in the hands of the magistracy. Leave was thou given fA. the introduction of the Bill. Mr. HALSEY moved for atld obtaine I leave to bring in a Bill to amend the rating of small tenements. On the motion of Mr. THOHNELY, the Select Com mittee on Public Petitions was appointed. Mr. ANSTEY obtained leave to bring in a Bill to consolidate and amend the Irish rishery Acts. He de scribed the Bill al being fauaded on the recommenda tions of the Committee of last session. Mr. MONSELL obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend an Act of the last session for making provision for the collection of county cess in Ireland, and fir the remuneration cf tl.e collectors thereof. Mr. FREWEN moved fir leave to bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to the holding of benefices in plurality. He had been confirmed in the opinion that such a measure was necessary by observing that dispen sations had for some time past been granted for holding plualities at the rate of more than one per week, and that among these was one in favour of a clergyman who was allowed to hold two livings —one worth 1,1001., and the other worth more than 1,0001. Sir G. GREY objeAnl to the Bill of last session, not because he thought the law relating to pluralities did not admit of amendment, but because he thought the Bill defective. He should be happy to assist the Hon. Gentleman in perfecting the measure; but he hoped that an early day would not be fixed for tho second reading, as there were various points which required careful investigation. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. The Lords Commissioners' Spee;ll having been con sidered, a Committee cf Supply was fixed for tc morrow. Th© House adjourned at a Q.larter to Tea o'clock. TO THE SECRETARY OF THE BRADFORD REFORM ASSOCIATION. Sir,—On Monday the 4th, the question which formed the principal point cf contest on the Address, was dc bated over again with a sort of bated breath, on occa sion of what is termed bringing up the Report. In the course of this something was done towards throwing light on portions of the subject in which you and yours aie so peculiarly interested, and among others, upon the following. I wish you would invite the atteLtlon of your thought fal working men,—and I know you have individuals of that class able to grapple with any subject it is possible to lay before them if they have time t 3 take it orderly from its beginning,—to the following view of their case, and finally take their opinions on its truth. That their position in general is much improved, no body when I was with you attempted to deny. Why is it improved? Is it not distinctly traceable to this fact, that more custom has come to the shop? That they can get more food for the same money than they used to do, may be one part of the season; but this might have taken place, and still their position have beet no better, if the quantity of custom t 3 the shop had fallen off as there were some to prophesy. We will not enter iato any exact calculation of how much or how little altera tion in the custom might have kept them as they were; but they know full well, that what has happenel at Bradford, is that Bradford trade is good, which means that Biaiford goods are in good demand,—that some body will buy them and Fay for them, and that the con sequence is that workmen in general are in good em ployment, to the extent even of finding occupation for the hand-!oom weavers, who a few years ago stood for , lorr, as men whose mode cf working was such as none could afford to enter Wu. Who is it, then, that buys Bradford goods and pays for them, and did not do it a year or two ago? I will tell them who it is, if any of them have not guessed it themselves. It is the people who cat foreign corn, and pay for Bradford goods to go abroad in exchange. The corn-eaters give their money to the merchant; but the merchant, or two or three merchants playing into one another's hands, buy your Bradford goods, and send them abroad, where through a process of the same kind with the foreign merchant or merchants, they clothe the people who grew or sold the corn. One-third of your trade at this moment, is to go abroad. Stop the corn coming in, and as you were told a few weeks ago, you will be put three upon two, or three of you will have to divide the employment that now falls to two. Do not puzzle the case with questions of Socialism, and whether it would not be better if all Bradford were their own masters, and appointed a commit t to divide the profits to every man according to his deserts. This will not be the case this year, nor next. In the mean time, look to the thing that brings grist to the mill to-day. Set this down as a settled point, that ss far as the existing state of things is concerned, living at Bradford depends on keeping open the foreign trade, and if you cannot prevent its being shut up, you must get ready for going three upon two, with such patience as you may. The inference I draw from all this is, that in this ques tion of foreign corn the battle is not between the English corn-grower and what he calls the "untaxed foreigner," but it is between the taxed corn•grower and the taxed Bradford man, who has as good a right to exercise his trade as the other has, and will make as great exec Cons t) dc fend it. To put this in the broadest light, it shall be supposed,if anybody pleases, that it is absolutely true that the foreigner pays no taxes, and pays no w ages either, or that in his country it snows corn, and the price of it con sists of nothing but the expense of shovelling it up and putting it on board a ship. And still, I say, there will not be the shadow of pretence, why because the English corn grower pays taxes, he should stop your trade of making corn at Bradford, who pay taxes a j well a i he. One thing more, if you have time to attend to it. I have no doubt you would consent to shut up shop at Bracifod and go into the streets, if you thought the good of the country called for it. Now then for the good of the country; and I submit to you whether the good of the country would not to affect 3d by the stop ping of your trade, exactly as it would be by stop. ping omnibuses to make every man pay five times as much for travelling in a coach by himself. The coachmen are deprived of their receipts; but does not some ether person get them? If you save two shil lings out of half-a-crown by riding in the omnibus, do not you expend them on the baker or the butcher, or in some way that makes it exactly the same to trade? The end then is simply this, th4t in one way you get some thing for your two shillings, and in the other you get nothing. Add together therefore all the shilling's worths that are thus got by those who ride in omnibuses, and you have the measure of the national loss which would arise if there were an Act of Parliament to put them down. Of exactly the same nature would be the results to the balance-sheet cf the community, if your honest trade were stopped. So go on with good consciences, as men who are struggling for your country's good and f.r your own. If I have made a single man's view clearer by this letter, it has not been thrown away. Oa Tuesday, a long debate on the Ecclesiastical Commission, ending in the withdrawal of the motion. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, AN OLD REFORMER. London, Feb. 6, 1850. TILE SUSPECTED POISONING AT II ACKNEY. Ye .terday morning, at twelve o'clock, the adjourned inquiry was resumed, for the third time, at the Fnun tain Tavern , Upper Clapton, relative to the death of James Merritt, aged 34 years, a turncock in the employ of .the East Lundon Water Company, who died on Thursday, . the 24th ult., from the effects of are enie, al:eged to have been administered to him by his wife, Ann Merritt, who now stands remanded until Saturday next, charged with having caused her husband's death. The Coroner said, [Coro he proceeded in examining the numerous wit nesses, he would inform the jury that since their last meeting he had received a communication hom Mr. Andrews, the summoning officer, that the de ceased's father had died suddenly under precisely similar circumstance?, and that considerable sus picion attached to the accused that she bad poisoned her father-in-law as well as her husband. lie had, therefore, deemed it necessary to order the disinterment of the body, a post mortem examina tion, and also an analysis of the contents of the stomach, to ascertain, if possible, if there was any foundation for the rumour. He did not intend to call witnesses in that case at the present inquiry, but should empanel a fresh jury at a future time. The following additional evi dence was then adduced:—Mary Gillett, the wife of a labouring , man, residing in the adjoining house to the deceased,' said that on Thursday last, after the adjourn ment of the inquest, Mre. Merritt entered the house, and asked her if she had heard that poison had been found in the deceased's stomach. Witness replied in the affirmative, when Mrs. Merritt exclaimed, " I am in nocent ; he was a dear good husband, and it is not likely I should do such a thing." She then added, " Dear creature,: if that is ;the case, he has done it by his own hand." Witless remarked at the Vale that it was not very likely, as he had put chaltd a new pair cf beets the eight previous to his death. Witness also knew the deceased's father, and saw him alive on Saturday, the 29th of September last. Ile died on the following et y; and for the last few hours previous to his death he was suffering from pains, and under similar circumstances es the deceased. By the Coroner—The deceased belonged to a benefit society, and cat ly on the morning of his death Mrs. Merritt ap plied to the society for the burial money, and received W. 15e., a portion of the sum she was entitled to on the death f her husband.- By the jury —Witness could not undertake to say that the deceased's father belonged to tLe so:iety. Other witnesses were examined, but their evidence was of no public importance. Tho Coroner said come further time was necessary to enable the police to make farther inquiries, and it would therefore be neces sary to adjourn again. In the interim the body o f the de ceased's father would be thoroughly examined, and th e results laid before another jury. The inquiry was ac cordingly adjourned until Monday next. wele'lciTottledNBthraEtßsoFmles li ef I these ll E fi s C h ir h A e i r become El- We lastr n , and that the crew, entan gled with the nets of the fishing boat, tnhaemiredltiTheesewrietroe jcopar these monsters dtobetthnigs their npeoarrt withoutboa t t s h , e c m u t . We are glad to learn that the nets have since been picked i 6 :4 1 r i b f y c and returned * the net s d up by another boat, and will be returned to the proper or:nem who are poor men, and could ill-efford to sus tain such a loss. Some "eentic men of this neighbo ur h oo d (among whom is Mr. J. I)ymoud, cf . George-street), it:- Wrested themselves in the poor fishermen's behalf, and have obtained subscriptiens t) provide a new set of nets fir them, which, of course, is now rendered unnecessary. Teo lose however to the fishermen is considerable, by the damage done to the nets, and by their being thrown out of employment for some time, but we hole the sum al ready subscribed is sufficient to prevent the poor fellows being sufferers to any material extent by their miefor turee.—.Devenpcvt Independoltt. NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. THE SUPPLY OF SPIRITS TO SEA MEAT . . A committee of Ilageffirers. and captains with Admiral Sir By am Mat in the chair, is now sitting It the Ad miralty to pronounce on the expediency of reducing ti e present allowance cf grog which is doily served out to the seamen cf her Majesty's navy, u fair compensation being made to them by a proportionate increase in the amount of their pay'. That the object which it is thus proposed to arrive at is a great and important deeds corßaafrnt drunkenness; n there nrynceyae st..or;and h can as be no doubt, as it is a notorious fact that the majority of punishments which take place in the e n t h e e t t r ae d i listrreiacs transition tti o ot r on o i n ffr d ro i e r mci e u c n thelytl "they intendedconse quence f reformtbe i n i e sr h t a o b w ; e e ulawsn not tf causeentirely ti e and y a neweffe ac e h e t . r h eee e T sr u m f h ul e the result of mode rn temperance preaching. nr As early as in 1824, when teetotalism was a thing not dreamt of in our philosophy, and the daily allowance of rum per man was no less than half a pint, a committee of flag officers was assembled, with Lord Exmouth at its head, who re ported it as their unanimous opinion that the discipline of the fleet and the health of th e seamen would be ma terially benefited by a reduction in the allowance of spirits, and they reported to the Board of Admiralty that the allowance of rum should be reduced nearly one-half, a just equivalent for the reduction being paid to the seamen in money. The decision of the com mittee was adopted, and there was every expectation that the most favourable results would ere long spring from the new system.tTheso hopes were, how ever, des tined to be crushed in the bud—a Bill beine passed two years ef.er, in 1826, for the equalisation of . liquid muss sures, by which the present Imperial measure was es tabliled ; and the seaman's allowance of grog was miraculously restored, or nearly so, to the fair pro portions of which it had just been curtailed, and which it has retained :up to the present day. There is some thing so natural, so familiar to British ears, in the association of seamen with grog, that it would, pet haps, Le a hopeless task to endeavour to prove that one is not a necessary adjunct to the other. Yet is the American navy grog is •uuknown, or at least the exception and not the rule—the coffee or tea pot is the sober substitute to the grog-can; and a solemn evidence that there is no disadvantage in the system — that the case in fact is the reverse—is the fact that in a service requiring all the energy, hardihood, and skill that a s. moan can possess—namely, the whale fishery— the ships of the United States have confessedly driven the English out of the South Seas and Pacific, and have monopolised that once flourishing and profitable branch if our commerce. Evident, however, as are the advantages with which a temperance movement in our navy would be attended, and greatly as its efficiency and character would be en hanced by it, there are certain considerations which render it a delicate question to approach, and which should dictate caution as to the mode in which the re form is to be introduced. It will be necessary for the committee in proposing their measures to assume a guardianship of vast the seaman would consider his rights, and whilst the advancement of better discipline is held in view it should be made evident that the beat interests, as well as the the true well-being, of the sea man are being attended to. 'lhe officers vrho compose the committee, with one so distinguished not only in his professional, bat in his administrative character as the Admiral of the Fleet for their president, form a sufficient guarantee that thee* considerations will be held in due regard, and that the fullest evidence as well as the weight of their own expe rience will be brought to bear upon the question. PORTSMOUTH, FEB. s.—Captain George Frederick Rich (1823) is selected to succeed to the superintendence of the Roy al William Victualling-yard and the Naval Hospital at Devonport, vice Captain Toup Nicolas. The Hercules, 72, store ship, Master Commander Fulton, arrived at St. Helen's in the night from the Medittrraw an, and came up to Spithead to-day. She sailed from Malta on the 7th ult., and Gibraltar on the 24th. Site has brought home a company of Royal Artillery, and detachments of the 56. h, 67th, and 46th regiments invalided. The Hydra steam-sloop, Commander G. Skipwith, arrived to-day at Spithead, and soon after came into harbour, from the south-east ce a,t of America sta:ion. She left four days before the packet Lilting', which ar rived last Friday week; her political now., therefore, has been forestalled. ghe brought the draft cf a treaty from the Republic of the River Plata fur approval by the British Government, all that is to be at present cleaned from the construction of which is, that it is based upon the " Hood" policy. Commander Skipwith prcceedcd to the Admiralty with his dispatches, by express, on the Brighton and South Coast Itailway this afternoon. The Hydra sailed from Rio on the 13th of December, called at Ascension on the 29th, Goree on the 12th of January, and Teneriffe on the 23d. The Tortoise store and guard ship, Capt. Hutton, and the Spy brigantine, Lieut. Western, were the only men-of-war at Ascension, which Wand was very healthy. She br.ngs no later news of the I'4- cent engagement,on the Gambia. At Goree the French Commodore and the bulk of his squadron were at r er , - dezvous. The only ia.senger brought borne by the Hydra is M. Figuet, late master cf a merchant ship on the ccast of Africa. The Hydra has captured three slavers since al e has been out, and liberated 350 s'aver, whom she took off a wreck. She is ordered to Sheerness to be paid off. Ti a Prince Regent, 90, Commodore Martin, arrived et Lisbon, from Malts, on the 24th ult, to take the corn mind of the squadron of evolution. The Scourge steam-sloop, Commander Lord F. H, Kerr, sailed from Lisbon for Malta on the 30th ult. The squadron eras daily exercised, and the Hogue, 60 (steam guard-.hip), is reported to be the smartest of the whole. The Commodore intended proceeding on • cruise in about ten days from the above date. Wind S.W.; strong gales and rain. PLYMOUTH, FEB. 5. Her Majesty's steam-frigate Gladiator, having in tow her tender the Jackal steamer, Isft yesterday for Madeira and the coast of Africa. APPOINTMENT& WO DLWICIE, FEB. s.—Surgeon Alexander Mitchell, M.D. (1849), to the Pinion el, 8, sloop, at Devonport. Naval Cal.t John T. Swann, to the Fisgard flag-ship, at Woolwich. Acting Gunner David Mackley, to the Sparrow, 6, surveying vessel on the south-east coast of Ireland. The members of the Board of Admiralty expected to visit Woolwich Dockyard did not arrive here today, having important business to transact in t3wn. Com modore Ilenry Eden, Superintendent of this dockyard, left Woolwich, cud had a lengthened interview with their Lordships at the Admiralty. Lieutenant Thomas B. Christopher (1841), having studied steam i t the factory at Woolwich Dockyard, was examined an I passed to-lay by Mr. Trickett, as sistant to the chief eflgineer. The recent order that all cfficers studying steam at this dockyard should pro ceed to Portsmouth to be examined previous to passing, has been rescinded, and Mr. Trickett will examine and pass them in future, or until further orders. Com mander John H. Gennys (1845). who was appointed to study steam at Woolwich factory in January, 1849, aid attended four months, but subsequently went to sea to be present at the experimental trials cf the Niger and the Basilisk, has again joined here to finish his course of study on the passing of Lieutenant Christopher. The Niger steam-sloop is to le taken out of the basin on Friday, and on the following Tuesday will be navi gated to Portsmouth by the crew of the Dasher steam vessel, under Lieutenant Parks, their commander. The commander and crew of the Dasher will bring the Argus steam sloop round from Portsmouth to toe river to be fitted with her engines by John Penn and Son. T,e Monkey steam-vessel, Master-Commander Bryant, is u de: orders to accompany the Niger down the river. The Grappler iron steam-vessel, formerly employed on service en the coast •f Africa, under Commander Lysaght, was sold out of the service last week for 550/. Toe Rocket, announced for sale at the same time, was not disposal of. THE NEW NAVAL NOVEL.—" The Petrel" (writ ten, it is stated, by Admiral Fisher) seems likely to at tain a great success. It is seldom (says the Weekly New) that the fallen bat )n of a literary chief is again grasped by as potent a successor; but, fortunately for the ad mirers of tales of the "deep," the work before us is an exception to the rule, tf e mantle cf the late lamer t d Captain Marry at having gracefully adjusted itself upon the shoulders of a gallant flag-officer, who is evidently capable of wearing it with honour. The Petrel" is more than a mere tale of the sea; it is, in fact, a brilliantly nat Channel,er a t' . a. I f,i t r oh me s wherect eehn..eceaps constructed narrat'ae, aboundine' with hair-breadth es capes ter crewfleyl a isl ri ac d airdnudi sidangerspinnagstsl:inengbesmyre passengers rezociapaaobnaccidpnu: Indianan lane'. ptrea l : t h r oe s e e f cP th he e i reminds us of Cooper's best effort;; its interest is thril hng and abaerbing. The olumes are full of incident, possess many highly dramatic scenes, and have a rein of quiet humour running through the whole; and, though last, not least, its characters are portrayed with a terse ness and graphic power which does credit even to a literary sailor."— Weekly Noes. [ADVERTISEMENT.]—THE TEETH AND GENESI', HEALTH.—It may fairly h 3 said, the state cf the '!',nth do vndi greatly upoa the state of the - bodily heaps-,and the state of the bodily health th-p:nds greatly upon the state of the Tce!b. The 1-I(ervevatbic principle of infinitesimal doses:in all eases of weaknees and nervous ness, is no doubt the right ens, ?t3 nature ia not then overpowered but assisted. The Un ited Dentists ' Tooth P ow der carries this out to it s utmost extent, as some of the are and a small peation being gr a d ua ll y a bsorbed every day , n ot onl y stren g then s the gums, but containedmost strengthening init, art in the Mater:a Medi cs the whole system. It li k e wis e thoroughly cleanses the teet h, gradually removing the tartar, purifies th e b reat h, thereby preveating infection, and corrects a c idity i n both Ross m outh and stomach.—Address, and Sons, 119 and 120, Bishopsgatc-ite t, Lander. [AP L v E T Em E . ] u;dsce; — onntchet ea ß i )i e e, / : ca ' wh s ouef if v tEc e egivl i .up n otif, es tvci London, ihe lea,lsg o ,eg. f : ai S h inm u ad u pt t otd ' a hri tcyeaa, Jockey Fts handicaps, bb y gpi Rill uao the Challenge declined. Price of Bell's Life, S•xpet;ce. The sale of Bell's Life exceeds 27,000. A sixpence enclosed to Mr. Clement, jun., 170, Strand, will ensure a copy by return of pest to any tart of the United Kingdom. CITT COURT or SEWERS—The Commiisiorera tss mbled 12 e'clodi, Mr. Alderman Hunter in the chair. Mr. Deputy Peacock wai unanimously elected chairman for the ensuing year. Just as the Court were about to proceed to the consideration cf the public business, the mace-bilarer appeared, and summoned them to sit a :; t e e v n i t d i tithte reluctanceCo t t c' i Common oteyed the order, l a T n h d e t members m e c Court u e r rt of Sewers adjourned. Mr. John Angelo, a volunteer in the late operations in the Purckub, and who acted as extra aide•de-camp to Msj x-General Sir J. Thackwell, has been rewarded by Major-General Sir Archibald Galloway, K. 013.. Chair man of the Court of Direc:ors, with an infantry oadctship.