The Sun. — London, England, 1851-05-09 00:00:00

y could ould be be pro m ven- Ase be give it who by the in- for re uppeal crying ing the Id con- I some• f which s it nct ed upc n Dun t of 'isiting usa, made, or th thee 0 iak in g d rase In be ono of 1 that 'ploy- a() va n the in the they e was ap° • own g the on of ed so was ,btain their a the NOVIG LONDON - 4 e t : t a ut e e. Tl,e repeal had been advocated for the purpo7e v i b e i t: e ld t e t h i h e g , rat't ti-4e'ne of the the h roseed but ho feared it pensiv e c P m -g ode ' cf ;rlich ' ing •he i of Lut were the a;riculturists to accept the: peel 1,4 1 ! t " as an eq u iv a l en t f or the r e p e al of the corn r Would they take it as an ? He that, whether leee.e . rs of the party would twee to . 1 7a ! ter they might rely on it Olt the result would be ivaLeucposition of taxed which would press still more ity on the landed rest ... Mr • WODEROUSE expressed his regret that the `"4 11011 had been b roug ht f orwar d, an d f e l t it his duty to pragainst it. Thi r ty y ears ago h e h a d vo ted in favour n !"Peal of the d ut y, an d if t h e state o f the country e the same now as then he should be tempte d to ta ke the same same course. But the point which governed him i n ti t that at the present moment there existed an ansee ] tin , Prohibition aainst the importation of malt; and, tho ugh foreign malt might not immediately come in h o ,, t ettt suantities, yet the measure must inevitably aade an Immediate effect on the finer qua:ities of barley, w ,,.., ll ffeet those counties adapted to its growth, and Y a ea re rs m s e g d that7'd extend to others. When the proposition was male o y , he gave notice of an amendment, in . hopes might have been found in the adoption of I: e 7 er e a ra t : e du d t u ie rY s : but the question of duties seemed to t aot P le dgd• dr. Husisisson's policy was a system of which afforded security to the g,rower, immanent injuriog. the consumer, and it was a subject of s h a illa neut regret that those views had been entirely e:Waned. It was his firm coaviction that if a duty t n c ? . f B o moderate an amount as 3s, a quarter on who :4 totln t• on the minor grains, were imposed, every rea- Of ele person would be satisfied, and he did not know of i tt g! l ,l' Illattrial part of the community that would he in- Gs u To take off these duties, however, must bring the It ;erument of the country to a state of financial weak ' on this ground he justified the vote he was s hout to give. Mr, pk s , s WEN supported the motion. The tax which proposed a ste s oeu to remove was exorbitant, and operated as a 'itrY irons inducement to adulteration, especially amo n g ti ..„ brewers, and the result was, that a great quell- I to of the beer sold was not the produce of malt and thea. Nothin g cou ld ma k e t hi s more c l e ar than the fact, t the quantity of malt made at the present time was t i o u lere than the ouantity made seventy years ago. In t here were 30,805,100 bushels made, the duty being 4 bi lh tu, a and the consumption being at the rate of four %le same per head. The quantity bad remained very much 4, 011 5 ,,1ue down to the present time, although the popnla lpiesu,ad so enormously increased. In 1844, 30,508,840 t o , "e lB Were made, the malt-tax having been increased lid. a bushel, and the consumption per head was 1 k id 1 6 1 gallons. The population in 1780 was 7,814,827, Id s .l l 1845 , 16,711,725.—(Hear.) Malt was an article sst i ti , n might be very advantageously used in fatteniug and there was a great quantity of soil of inferior knew of many thousands of acres in the :r l l division of Sussex of this description, which he be p ro fi ta bl y emp l oye d i n the growth of barley is h;s opinion, were reasons quite sufficient to justify vi ;e ,t i: o t u a t kin g every opportunity of urging, year after 1 1 77 r. the removal of this most heavy and unjust tax. ht the Chancellor of the Exchequer ought to tZlttoh!t _another tax as a substitute for this, and he did ebkitu'ule the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with his 17 ' w euhl have any very great difficulty in doing so. surf should like to see the tax totally repealed, but the and safest way would be to have a gradual reduc pa - the mode ho had suggested in a motion upon the ix : 3 p r; If hi s p l an were adopted, the tax would be re )k about five years and a half. QV. . SANDARS considered the Hon. G e nt lem a n us: el• Ca YleY) given no sfficient reason for the con loa to which bad he wished u the House to come. With 113P iT t to the argument that the removal of the tax ht:ittta. e t e b in t crease the consumption of beer, it appear e d to a Popular taste of late hail greatly changed—that i t and coffee were largely consumed, while intoxicating in ( Pars were less regarded. The Hon. Gentleman here eat rs , into some calculations to show the effect of the t,peal of the t ax wit h re f er ence to foreign malt inspor- Ile considered (we understood) that malt would la rgely imported into the euuntry from the Baltic P arts 7 „.: tie Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Cayley) had b tf„ o :eu to the advantages which wonld result to the la - G classes, but be did not agree in that statement.q " beer might now be brewed for 2d. or 3 d. per 6 e t . art, which was charged by the retail dealer at orBd. If the labouring classes did not w their beer now, when it was so much to their ad- O nt ages why should it be assnmed they would make it th e rep ea l were carr i e d? It b a d a l s o been said that tt Poorer classes would make their own malt, but this r l6 quite absurd. He really believed if the tax were ;. e . l, ealed that ver y f ew persons, as at present, would be , 1 7 1 aced to b rew t h e i r ow n beer. As to the assertion of rh%°Poly, that, too, was a fallacy. He could assure fi!' lien. Member that maltsters did not make large pro b". The l arge p ro fit s w ere made by the brewers, not /the maltsters. It was said that the repeal of the tax could be a relief to the agricultural interest. If he he ad bring himself to believe such would be the effect, would support the motion, but as his opinion was dtiy rerent, and he felt that we could not spare 5,000,0001. 3 qr . e revenue, he would vote against the proposition. T he Member for Derby proposed to repeal half the trq c, but that would not do much good as it would not d t ) away with the present vexat ious re g ulations. To • 1 14)w how vexatious the regulations were, he would 6 is.te there were in 1847 upwards of 300 p rosecutions , le alleged violations of the law. He felt bound, there ' Ire, to oppose the motion. Mr. H. DRUMMOND was not going to urge argu e lents that had been often before urged ; but he would leave to say a few words on behalf of a class of in ' tvidnals whose claims were often talked of but seldom I Silly heeded. He must first express his surprise at t le speech of the Honourable Member (Mr. Sanders), 1 ' rho talked about malt improving by a twelvemonth's c bunnement in the hold of a ship. This was only one of singularities of that Honourable Gentleman's speech. caving that Honourable Gentleman where he was, he 1 ° tuld ask the Right Honourable Gentlemen and H on. G entlemen opposite, who began by an appeal to the nsaes—tbe very ground he always took—to give a u rea ;" why they made such a clamour about cheap bread, yet refused to stir a step about cheap beer.—(Hear, ."" are) The official return which he had referred to ee aved that the consumption of spirits had greatly l ee ll cr eased of late years. The average consumption ~le 1 gallon per head for England, 1 gai ; i per head for Ireland, and 2 g allons per head r annum for Scotland.—(Hear, hear.) This large Ir eue, he believed, was greatly owing to the tax (l it• malt. Th e H onoura bl e Gentleman asked where they l ii sold find a ta x th a t pressed so little on the commu ni ty. ttt what was the definition of the community with rola -24 In to this tax. The community that paid this tax was most exclusively the agricultural labourers. — ( o h , no. ) ° n• Members said no. How much beer did Hon. Z.' embers oosite drink or pay for during the ye ar? It 1: 8 , 4 Curious cir c umstance that the consumption of malt "‘ 1 not increased notwithstanding the large increase of P o p ulatien, In making an appeal to the House for the len loyal of a tax it was the fashion to place it on the glO and of a, relief to the poor. His rule was , lay t axes o income or on houses, or any other property, but take i them off the poor. 'I he CHANCELLOR o f th e EXCHEQUER was af Met id he must apologise to the House, as the Hon. - get nber for the North Riding had declared little new e 2,4 1 be s a id on the subject, for repeating arguments whit 11 he had used before on the same subject; but he "uld do an as briefly as he could. The Hon. I deal her opposite (Mr. Drummond) appeared to him to e atertai n some odd notions about the amount *back the agricultural labourers contributed to the te!euue by their consumption of beer. If they were l e l MY the main consumers, then their condition could Ha: rdly be so bad as had been insisted on by their advo- C3. T es,—(gear. hear.) He was surprised to hear his xL4)n. Friend s p ea k of the inquisitorial and obj ectionable nature of the tax. The greatest authorities who had inquired into the subject, uniformly represented that if a large amount of revenue was to be raised, there was luirdly any tax by which it could be raised so cheaply, anti respecting which the inconveniences were so small. Tho tax produced nearly 5,200,0001., and in the report whi th was made by Com m i ss i oners w h o were a pp o inted to inquire some time ago into the subject, it was stated that the tax occasioned little inconvenience, and that it !via hardly possible to show a tax lees objectionable than the malt-tax; it was l ess f e l t an d l ess i n j ur i o us than any other tax ; in addition to which, no other tax of the same magnitude was collected at so small an expense, • Mr. Barclay , opheions of y, li tt e n eminent r e b f r e e r w e t r e , 'a t n h d e Mr. Joseph Taylor, of Bishops Stortford, some five years ago, in con6rmation of the character of the tax. The Rig'tit Rom Gentleman read the questions put to these two ge n tlemen and their replies, which comp l ete l y b ore ou t W if aa the coll ected his assertions. Now, if — a .1,1.5: amount of revenue was produced by the tax it te ee r t f e e d ren in ce er o e f cheaply than any other tax — and this Excise officers with the manufacturer, as had been declared by the two practical men whose evidence he had referred to, was not onerous and objectionable , then he thought a strong case bad be en mad e out in fav our o f the tax. He entirely concurred in the view of the Hon. Gentleman that the tax was paid by the consumer. H e Was quite ready to admit that the tax might interfere with the demand for the article; for that was hi th e na. tare of all taxes to have such an effect; but he Would , Sll 3', if it were necessary t o have 5 ,000,0001. of revenu e , " was impossible to obtain is by any tax less injurious to the consumer and the producer. The Hon. Gentle.. man stated that the consumption of malt had not in creased in the same proportion as tea, coffee, and cocoa, from which articles the duty ha d been partly removed; that the in crease in the consumption of beer be no Proportion to th e increase in the cons um p tion ofe th o se other arti c l es. Thi s wa s to be attributed , not t r o t e effect of th e ma l t - tax , but to a change in our habits. We dr ank less beer than ou r forefathers; and that chan g e might also be traced throu g hout the middle and labouring Manes. The duty on tea was twice as high as the d u ty on malt, in proportion to the price of tne art i c l e, so that if they were to redu ce the duties of the hi g h est amount, i t was c l e ar that tea should get a preference from them over malt. The con sumption of intoxicating liquors bad of late years been decreasing, while the consumption of drinks which were not of an intoxicating character bad been increasing, and he looked upon that as a proof of a happy cha n g e in the h a bit s o f t h e people. His Hon. F r i en d (Mr. Cayley) anticipated a great reduction in the price of beer if the malt duty should be repealed. But he be lieved that the expectations of his Hon. Friend upon that point were very much exaggerated. In the Cum . mitts° to which he had already referred Mr. Baker, of Writtle, who was one of the principle advocates for that change, had stated it as his belief that if the duty on malt were repealed the reduction in the price of beer would amount to 100 per cent Now he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) coefessed Fie wen at a loss to underetand how such a reduction could tike place, because if the price of any article were reduced by 100 per cent. there would be no price whatever left to pay for laugh.) That was an example of the sort of arguments 1 toey sometimes heard up on sub j ects of that description. But he fund ',hat past expesience might teach them to distrust the expectations which same persons enter tained of any c sntaterable ditnintnion in the price of beer in consequence of a repeal of the midt-tax. About 25 years ago they had reduced the duties imposed on strong beer in the shepe °final', duty toad beer titey by about 703., and they had reduced the duties on ordinary Leer by about 505.; and as they had been told that those re ductions had not led to any considerable increase in the price of barley, or to any considerable decrease in the price of beer, he did not see how a reduction of about 215., which was the amount of the present malt duty, could be reasonably expected to be productive of aey great benefit, either to the grower of malt or to the con sumer of beer. Mr. Barclay, the grtat brewer, to whom he had already referred, had stated in his evidence be fore that Committee that the utmost reduction in the price of beer which would follow from a repeal of the malt tax could not amount to more than a halfpenny a quart; and he (the Chancellor o f the Exche q uer) he ti eved that such a reduction would be too dearly pur chased by the loss of 5,000,000/. a year to the revenue. His Hon. Friend had told them that the duty operated as a great discouragement to the brewing of their Own beer by private individuals. Bat he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not think it could well be said to lead to any such result. He believed that in the south of England private individuals did not diem it advisable to brew their own beer; but in his part of the country every farmer and labourer breivel his own beer. Ho was inclined to think that a considerable stimulus would be given to the illicit distillation of spirits if the malt tax were repealed; and that vies a result which it would be desirable, if possible, to avoid. The great question they had to con sider was, how they could replace the 5,000,000/. derived from the malt-tax, or how they could raise that amount in ens less objectionable manner. The House had decided the other night that the income-tax, which produced about the same sum, should be renewed for a year only, and any Government must be placed in a po sition of great financial difficulty when so large an amount of taxation depended on an annual vote. If Hon. Gentlemen meant to get rid of the income-tax as soon as possible, how could they, as men of common sense determine oa at once removing 5,000,0001. derived from the malt-tax?—(Hear.) If they repealed the malt tax, where, he would ask, was the possibility of their getting rid of the income-tax in any conceivable time? It would surely be absurd to resolve to get rid of a tax which brought in 5,000,000/. a year, and then to follow up that vote by a resolution to get rid of another tax of the same amount which would render the attainment of the object of their first decision absolutely impossible. Hon. Gentlemen opposite were disposed to get rid of the income-tax, and Hou. Gentlemen on his side of the House were anxious to effect reductions in the great articles of consumption; but neither object could be realiztel if they were to get rid of the 5,000,000/ derived from the malt tax. He knew no tax of equal amount which was so cheaply and easily collected ES the malt tax, cr which was so evenly distributed over the whole population of the country, and he should therefore feel it his duty to vote against the motion. Mn, DISRAELI said—l wish to express in a very few words the reasons why I shall give the vote which I in tend to offer upon this subject. I admit that if this case were one simply of fiscal remission it might be of easy disposal. I admit the force of those circumstances to which the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer alluded in the latter part of his speech. I admit that after the vote which the House came to on Friday night on the income-tax, this question occupies a very different position from that which it occupied during the last session of Parliament; and I em per fectly willing to admit that any Gentleman who voted for the repeal of the malt-tax last session, a!ter the vote at which the House arrived the other night with respect to the income-tax, is perfectly free to take a different course upon the present occasion. But I cannot look upon this question as a mere question of fiscal remis sion.—( Hear, hear.) Nor will I consider it with refe rence to the perhaps higher consideration of the interest of the labourer. His interest has been brought most clearly before the consideration of the House by my Honourable Friend the Member for Surrey (Mr. Drutnmond). We must sympathise with the view which my Honourable Friend expressed upon that subject with so much frankness in his speech. I confess I was somewhat surprised at the expressions used by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer upon that point. The Right Hon. Gentle man says, " What is a halfpenny in a qnart of beer?" — (Hear, hear.) But when we hear of a halfpenny in a quartern lea, we are told there will be a revolution. — (Hear, bear.) It is not, however, my intention to touch even upon that important topic. I must look at this question under the same light, and ieflueuced by the same feelingain a great degree to those which actuated me in the vote which I gave upon this subject last year. I look upon this tax with reference to its influence on the capital of the most suffering class of the community. —(Hear, hear.) Their position has been brought under the notice of the House under circumstances which call for our most serious consideration. The sufferings of calculateestimate a the ti d the occupiers of land are universally and authori tativelydeg ree acknowledged.efth oseff euerih g sI; it is d It i s ithu difficult cl to t to ascertain the amount that has been lost by the farmers of this country by recent changes in our legislation.— (Hear, hear.) Night after night we have had various estimates offered to us of the amount of those losses, and without any exception those estimates have been offered to us by gentlemen who sit on the benches opposite. The very boast which they indulge in of the amount of gain which has accrued to what they call the community by the change in the laws which regulated the importation of agricultural produce, is in fact an estimate of the loss which accrued to the British occupiers of the soil. — (Hear, hear.) We have had one estimate, which I must always accept as the official statement of the amount of that loss. Last session a distinguished Member of this House (Mr. C. P. Villiers)—a gentleman who never indulges in loose phraseology, and who is perfectly master of this interesting subject—in moving the address, told us, amidst the assenting cheers of the Treasury bench, that the gain to what he called the community by the change in those laws was in fact a transference of capital from the occupiers of the soil to that community to the amount of not less than 90,000,0001. per annum. We hear much of the question of the laws which regulate the importation of foreign produce being a landlord ques tion, being a question of rent; but, inasmuch as the whole rent of the United Kingdom is only 60,000,0001., the farmers must. according to that estimate, have lost at least 30,000,0001, even if no rent had bean exacted from them. But admitting even what perhaps lam not authorised to admit, a teauction of rent to the amount of 20,000,0001., the loss to the farmers, and that loss is an increasing ono, mint have amounted to at least 70,000,000!., according to that estimate which was the foundation of the address which we offered to the Throne. You have here, then, a class which, according to your own statement, according to your own data, have experienced a delapidarion of capital which has never yet been equalled in the experience of any other class in this country; and what is the remedy offered by the Ministers of the Crown to that class? It is, to give up the cultivation of wheat, while at the same time you are maintaining laws under which you raise in one branch of your revenue, namely, your inland taxation, t No-thirds of italerge amount from another crop of the British farmer—(Hear)—that crop being one which, in consequence of the alteration in your laws, and in conse quence of the advice of your Ministers, ha would natu rally have recourse to in order to obtain some compen sation for the change in your legislation.—(Hear, hear.) I never heard that question properly met. You can only meet it by arguments which totally contradict all those principles which you on other occasions profess. You can only meet it by proving that restriction is a benefit. You can only meet it by demonstrating that large im ports do nut check consumption.—(Hear, hear.) lam willing to admit that thatis a rash principle which would pull to pieces too rudely the financial system of this country. I have never concealed my wish that this tax should be maintained. I have never concealed my wish that the whole system of our local taxation should, if possible, be continued. But this I say—that it is im possible you can maintain your malt-tax--that it is im possible you can continue to raise from the people of this country a large revenue separate from the general reve nue which you otherwise raise—that it is impossible you can continue to do this if you establish a system of un equal taxation—(Hear, hear) —and if you do not do that to the agriculturists which Mr. Ricardo sanctioned, which Mr. M'Culloch recommended, which the firer lights in political economy have invariably advocated, both in their speeches and in their writings—if you do not place the cultivators, the owners, and the occupiers of the soil on the same level with the other classes of the community.—(Cheers.) I heard the other night— and I heard it, to my surprise, from the lips of a man from whom I should never have expected to have heard such a sentiment—that he recognised no difference between a protective duty and the new-fashioned term of what the Right Hon. Gentleman called a coun teracting duty. Now I entirely protest against such a position. The question of protection has nothing to do with an adjustment of taxation that shall place the cul tivator of the soil on the same level with the other arises of the community.—(Hear, hear.) If you choose to adopt a system of protection—that is, a system of bents• fits or of disadvantages, in which the cultivator of the soil shall take his share—we have nothing to do with that; but if you choose to establish a sy stem of taxation It Which you raise from ono class a la r g e amount to Which the others do not contribute, you must by some fiscal arrangement place this extraacontributing class on the same level of tax t"ton—l use the words of Mr. Ri a cardo-58 other classes. The elements of the counter by the very 3 m ave been analysed, ascertained, and fixed free trade—who who first advocated what you now call of foreignfirstproduce advocated that system of free im portsso great a discovery. which you now consider to be us to en These were the men who first re commendedthe agricultural classespsate for the extra taxation of now we are told th a t a by counteracting ditties; and duty are identic a l. l counteracting duty and a pro tectivet observe the position to w hich you have driven u s by u aea course of injustice which c an never in the long run tural class does not coma forwasruressful. The a ricul g t era cting duties.—(Hear, hear.) and They telt you for coon your reproaches that they are asking or legislative fa . will not incur y o urs to which they are not entitled; the the falsely-excited odiu m w hich you yourselveswilinot incur created by stating that they w a n t to p la ce a tax on the bread of the people. But this they ask of you—" Place us on a level of taxation with t he rest of the community—(gear, hear)— and inas much as b y this malt-tax, accordin g to the highest authorities, you have placed on us a burden which the other classes do not uhare, inasmuch as by your system of local taxation you raise mainly from the soil a large revenue for the purposes of the community, to which the 'trireme city noes cautribete. we ask you in the new t.late 0: 4alkors to relieve us from their bur dens; but if you think it better that these burdens should remainr if it is your opinion that it is for the advantage of the community that that taxation of a particular class should continue to subsist, if you consider that the ad vantagea of relf-goeertintent are so great, and that the theiletes of raising this tax of 5,000,000/. ought not to be lightly lost, then it is for you to come forward and offer the terms on which you wish to retain those ad vantages. But never shall it be represented to us that we come forward to ask for counteracting duties on account of the disadvantages to which wo are subjected. We now accept the principles of your new system, and upon this we ask you, according to the dictates of financial justice, to rid us of the grievances under which we suffer." It is under the influence of these views that I shall give the vote which I am about to give for the motion of the Honourable Member fur the North Riding of Yorkshire, who on this, as on o ther occasions, has, with a zsal which all must admire and a knowledge which all acknowledge, brought this subject before the House. I think it impolitic that we should terminate a mode of levying a large branch of our revenue, such as the malt-tax. I think it most impolitic and inexpedient that we should take refuge from the burdens ot local taxation in thu new-fen ;led nod den genius system of what is called "national rat- s;" but I cannot shut my eyes to the inevitable sonar quenees of the fatal policy which you are pursuing. —(dear. hear.) I cannot thut my:eyes to the fetal consequences of a sys tem which is exacting a larger amount of taxation from the land of the United Kingdom, at the very moment when, under your legislation, it is enduring great trials and great losses,--(Bear, hear.) I know that every day and every hour that conviction must become more and moro pressed upon the minds of that great body of the community who are immediately interested in the cutsi venal of the soil; and that session after session you will be more and more powerfully and sternly callel on to adjuet your taxation to the principles of political justice. —(deer, hear.) It is under these circumstances , that I shall give the vote which I mean to give to-night in favour of the motion of the Hon. Gentleman. I shall give it as a protest against the course which you are pursuing—is course which I believe, in the first instance, to be unjust, anti, in the next instance, to be injurious. But if the Go vernment would come forward and meet this question with frankness; if they would tell us that it is of great ad vantage to the community that this extra taxation should be exacted from the land, and that they did not shrink from measures of equitable adjustment which would place the cultivators ot the soil on the same level with the rest of the community, then I should be glad to sup port measures which the Right lion. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer has spoken of as so expe dient; and then I should feel that I could, with some appearance of fairness, with some regard for the prin ciples of political justice, refuse that appeal which prac tically is made by the lion. Member for the North Riding of Yorkshire, that we should place the land of England on the same level of taxation as the other great interests in this country.—(Hear.) Mr. FULLER said that be took up this question as affecting the labouring population; and he looked on it as the most injurious, most obnoxious, and one of the most tyrannical taxes that had ever been levied on the country. It pressed heavily on the labourers, as, if bread were their staple food, beer was their staple drink. A labourer, aged 91, who was examined before the Poor-law Committee some years ago, on being asked by Mr. Harvey, " Do you remember the condition of the labourer during your life?" replied, "Yes; when I married I could have a bushel of malt for 2s. 6d., and every person had a barrel of beer to drink in stead of water." Mr. Hodges, M.P. for Kent, asked him, "Did the labouring man in former times use to brew as a general thing?"—" Yes." " How long have they left it off ? "—" Ever since malt got to such a prce that they could not buy it." "Do you know any poor man who brews his own beer? "—" Not one." "Do you remember the rate of wages when malt was 2s. 6d. a bushel? "—" Yes; ls. 4d. per day, or Bs. a week." The witness was then asked if the labourers would do more work if they had better beer and living? The answer was, " To be sure ; they cannot do more than half a day's work. Some of them dropped down when they had a little hard work." He trusted that this year they would have the vote of the Honourable Member for the West Riding, when he reminded the Honourable Gentleman of a speech of his at Manchester a year or two ago, upon which occasion he said, " We sympathise with the farmers; we we will never tolerate one shilling for protection in by way of corn, but we will co-o p erate with tax. We owe gettingthe farmers irid of s t o h m a e t t o h b in n g ox , aionuds we will tmryaltt o repay them in kind,"—(Hear, hear.) He hoped also that they should have the support of the late Sir R.Peel's friends, and of all the Welsh Member s who were fond of good ale.—(A laugh.) Mr. IlUtlE, amid general cries of "Divide,": said an appeal had been made to the Free-traders by the Hon. Member for West Surrey. Now he, as a Free-trader, intended to vote for the entire repeal, in opposition to any partial repeal, and he had made a proposition to that effect so long ago as 1829. The Right Hon. Gen tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated that the increase of the duty on malt had not affected the consumption. That was a palpable error. In 1804 the tax was raised from 2s. 2d. to 4s. 4d., and notwith standing the increased population the consumption of malt fell on the average of the next few years from 25,500,000 bushels to 23,000,000 bushels. He consi dered that the effect of increasing the duty on malt had been to change the moral character of our population, and to drive them from beer, which was a wholesome beverage, to spirits. This country no w consumed from 23,000,00 0 to 24,000,000 gallons of ardent spirits an nually. Was it not, then, for the House, when they saw the amount of drunkenness, crime, and demoraliz t don that existed in the land, and considered that it was produced by the fiscal regulations ' t which they maintained, to alter the present system? From what ever articles taxation must come, he asked them not to take it from the beverage of the middle and lower classes. The whole population of the country was in terested in this question, and he thought that the appeal to the Free-traders which had been made by the Hon. Member for West Surrey was a strong and powerful one, for he could not understand Gentlemen taking trouble to obtain cheap bread and cheap beef, and now turning round and refusing to give them cheap drink.—(Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Ex chequer had asked hew he could meet the deficiency of 5,500,0001., which the repeal of this tax would occa sion. lie would tell the Right Hon. Gentleman. Re duce the expenditure, and go back to establishments which in former years were found adequate for every purpose. Look after the Crown revenues, levy an eauitable property -tax, and impose a duty of one per cent. upon the descent of landed property. If the Go vernment would direct their attention to these matters, there would be no difficulty in the way of repealing the malt-tax. Mr. BASS decidedly disagreed with the Hon. Mem ber for Wakefield as to the effect of the repeal of the malt-tax in bringing large quantities of foreign malt into the market. When he saw the principal brewers make their own malt because they could not trust others, he never believed they would go abroad for the foreign article. It was very difficult to make good malt, and in cold countries where severe frost prevailed it was impos sible. With regard to the transport of barley, the English brewers preferred English barley as the best. but in consequence of the failure they had lately to im port. The importation of foreign malt had decreased many years back, and had been less in 1850 than in the years 1848 or 1849. In reply to the Hon. Member for Wakefield's remarks on the proposition for a half-duty, a notice of which he (Mr. Bass) had on the paper for that night, he would only say that he know of no re striction now existing which would prevent the malt from being manufactured as good as it could be. He was informed that it would not be competent for him to bring forward his motion that evening; but he would say that on some future occasion he thought he could bring forward reasons sufficient to induce the House to agree to his proposition. - Neither he, nor, he believed, the Hon. Member who had brought forward the present motion, had any idea of interfering with the fiscal ar rangements of the year.—(Cries of "Divide.") Mr. BRO raER roN protested against the delusion that this was a poor man's tax, or that there was any sort of analogy between a duty on wheat and a duty on barley. Bread was a necessary of life—beer nothing of the sort. The malt-tax was an entirely self-imposed tax, which the people could themselves repeal, and he certainly should not vote for the repeal of a tax which was so entirely in everybody's own hands. Mr. HENLEY did not understand how it was that with such views the Hon. Member had voted upon the sugar duties, or upon the coffee duties, whic h were q uite as much sell-imposed taxes as that upon malt.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member for Montrose complained that the landed property was exempt fromahe probate and legacy duties. The reason why those duties had not been im posed upon landed property was simply because this sort of property, passing not by will but by settlement, legacy and probate duties upon it would have been a remark ably unproductive impost. The Hon. Gentleman might therefore fully console himself with the stamp duties and the tax upon leasehold property, and the land-tax, for these got much more out of landed property than ever legacy or probate duties would have extracted. The Marquis of GRANBY said, the Hon. Member for Montrose pointed to the army, the navy, and the Ordnance, for the means of making up the deficiency to be occasioned in the revenue by the repeal of the malt-tax. The Hon. Member forgot the admission of his own leader, that it was precisely the repeal of the corn-law which made us dependent on foreigners for no less than 10,000,000 quarters of wheat per annum; that rendered it impossible for the Government to reduce the expenditure to which the Hon. Gentleman referred. Lord J. RUSSELL reminded the Hon. Member for Montrose that, no very long time after the year 1826, to which he had reterred, the question was brought before the House whether the malt-tax should be reclaced or the duty taken off beer, and the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Right Hon. Member for Cambridge, preferred to take off the tax upon beer, which was ac cordingly taken off to the extent of 3,000,0001. per annum. At the present moment he believed the fact to be that the country was not paying more duty upon ' the raw material of beer than it paid seventy years ago. Various gentlemen had proposed various ways of supply ing the deficiency to be occasioned by a repeal, of the malt-tax. The Honourable Member for Middlesex sug gested, among other things, the imposition of legacy and probate duties_ upon landed property; but the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire. on the other hand, showed that landed property already paid equivalent duties. As the House was not at all ready to vote for the sub stitutes proposed, the real result of the motion would be, that there would be a diminution of 5,000,000/. in the revenue.--(Bear, hear.) The lion. Member for Mon trose said, " You should at once take 5,000,000/. off the expenditure for the army and navy ;" and he stated, as a reason for that course, that the present Government had increased the expenditure for the army and navy by 000,000 L He (Lord J. Russell) entirely denied that hoputation. He believed the estimates voted for the army and navy in the present year were not so large as in 1845. It was true there had been some increase in the Ordnance estimates, but 'he did 'lot believe that, T E SUN, 51 A Y 9, 1851. PA RLIAM F , tIDA EVENIN taken altogether, there was any increase in the present year upon theastirnal es of 1345. He thought the House would not be prepared to melte to mske the great dimi nution suggested by the Hon. Member for Montroee, and it appeared to him that the main reason for voting against this motion was, that it would leave the finances of the country in a ruinous condition—(Hear, hear) — and that they would have no source from which they could supply the loss of revenue.—(Cheers.) Mr. CAYLEY, in reply, said that his quarrel with the Noble Lord, who asked how the deficiency of 5,000,0001. in the revenue could be supplied, was that since the repeal of the corn-laws they had already thrown away 5,000,000!. This tax was most unjust and intolerable in its operation, and he therefore demanded from that House, in the name of justice, its repeal. The House then divided, when there appeared — For the motion ..• 122 Against it ... ..•...258 Itlejority against the motion ... --136 SCOTIISII UNIVERSITIES. Mr. COWAN moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the admission to the lay cr secular chairs in the Scott::.) universitime Mr. E. ELLICE seconded the mo ti on . Mr. F. teIAULE entirely approved of the provisions of the Bill, and would he vvey glad to gire the Hen. Member for Edinburgh any assistenee in his power in carryieg it into effect. Sir R. INeLIS opposed the motion. The object of the Bill, after what had passed, was evident. It was to eeperate the religious community of Scotland from the professorial duties of the university; to provide that the Professor of Mere! Philosophy, for instance, might be a e, en of itity religion or of no religion. It was a ques tion into which lie would not then enter, whether this would not be a violation of the Act of Union and the rights of the Church. Lord J. RUSSELL did not think the security upon which the Hon. Baronet would rely was at all effective. There was such a restriction that, if rigidly enforced, it would prevent an Episcopalian, for instance, from being a professor, and thus you might lose a most valuable and learned man.--(Lear, hear.) He believed it had not been, in fact, very rigidly enforced, but then, if so, it was no test of value. Believing, generally speaking, that these tests were no real security at all, he should vote for the motion.— (Hear, hear.) After a 12',V words from Mr. CLIARTERIS and Mr. Foams, the motion was agreed to. BOARD OF CUSTOMS. Mr. MITCHELL moved that all the petitions pre sented that session complaining of the Board of Cut t stne be referred to a Select Committee on Cuetoms.— Motion agreed toe THE PROPERTY-TAX COMMITTEE. Mr. HUME moved that a Select Committee be ap pointed to inqeire into the present mode of assessing and collecting the income and property-tax, and to consider whether any other system of levying the same, so as to render the tax mere equitable, can be adopted. After the long debate which had taken place, he hoped this ivould be agreed to without further discussion. Mr. GLADSTONE thought this a question of the utmost importance, and one which had not yet been de bated, and ought not to be adopted without very full con sideration. It was not included in the proposition the Hon. Member induced the House to adopt, and as he (Mr. Gladstone) understood, many who supported him in limiting the grant of the tax to a single year did so inson other grounds entirely distinct and apart from those of the Hon. Member, and by no means committing them selves to the ape ointment of a Committee; but , on t he contrary, highly disapproving of it.—(Hear, hear.) The present was not a very convenient opportunity of discus wing such a question in the manner its gravity demanded; but ho (Mr. Gladstone) would say that, independent of many very serious dilliculties of detail and of lower order,' it appeared to him that there was great reason to fear that the appointment of such a Committee might amount to no less than this—the appointment of a Com mittee to inquire whether we would or would not keep faith with the proprietor of the public funds.— (Oh, oh!) That was received as if it were something strange and preposterous; but he was prepared to support it by rea sons.—(llear, hear.) He hoped the lion. Member would not object to take a discussion upon the question upon some more convenient occasion. He (Mr. Gladstone) should be disposed to propose that the debate be adjourned. Mr. HUME had not been aware, from what passed when the matter was mentioned before, that there was any opposition to the motion, and could not conceive that any act or word of his warranted the Right Hon. Gentleman in supposing that he was not anxious to keep faith with the public creditor.—(tlear, hear.) He did not know that the House desired a discussion on the subject, but the Right Hon. Gentleman could make any observations when the names should be proposed. Mr. S. HERBERT apprehended that the vote come to was simply that the income-tax should last only for one year. There was a strong objection to the creation of a permanent incomestax as an habitual source of re venue.—(Hear, hear.) Ile did not think the question as to the schedules, and the possibility of modification, was gone into. The misunderstanding of the Hon. Member as to the observation about keeping faith with the public creditor proved the necessity of discussion; what was desired was to show him that, having the strongest sense of the importance of keeping faith with the public cre ditor, he was going to endanger it without being aware of it.—(Hear.) The notion of discussing the principle on the appointment of the names was puerile. It was not becoming in the House to come to such a vote in the dark, without having before it the reasons for and against it; and it was then close to midnight. Mr. AGLIONBY was reconciled to the vote he gave. Though he desired to make the tax more equitable, he voted against the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) because ho saw by whom the Hon. Member was supported. It was plain enough they did not vote in favour of an equitable adjustment.—(Einar.) Did any man believe that there would have bees a majority for the motion the other night, if the question had not been viewed as a question of the continuance cf the tax for one year with the view of referring the subject to a Committee? The sole ob ject with which many Hen. Members voted for the mo tion was that an inquiry should take place—(Hear, hear) —and he hoped, therefore, that the Hight Hon. Gentle man opposite would not raise a discussion as to appoint ing a Committee. Mr. STANFORD had voted for the motion of the Hon. Member for 'Montrose on Friday beCause he be lieved the tax as inquisitorial as it was an unpopular tax. He preferred having it for one year to having it for three years, which would have implied that it was to be a permanent tam He repelled the imputation that those with whom he acted made the question one of free trade or of protection. It was a question of direct or of indi rect taxation; and he did not wish the tax to be made more equitable with the view of being made permanent, for he objected to it in tote. Colonel SIBTIIORF inquired whether it was the in tention of the Hon. Member for Montrose, by the nomi tion of this Committee, to render the tax permanent? Mr. HUME replied that it was not for him to say whether the tax should be made permanent or not. The House had decided to continue it for one year; he had proposed a Committee of inquiry, and it would be for the House afterwards to decide whether the tax should be continued. Mr. SLANEY thought it was manifest, from what had passed, that the motive of the majority on the motion of the Hon. Member for Montrose was as various as the individuals of whom it was composeds--as various as the contents of the beautiful fabric in Hyde-park.—(Divide.) It seemed proper to uppoint a Committee, for the pur pose of seeing whether the tax could bo mad e • more equi table or not. Sir T. ACLAND had voted for continuing the tax one year. He felt the difficulty arising from the objec tions to it on the ground of inequality, which would increase with each renewal. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said what had passed to night had only confirmed the opinion he gave on Friday night, that the House was incurring very great inconve nience in agreeing to the motion of his lion. Friend the Member for Montrose, having a totally different view of the steps that were to follow on that motion. But he (Lord J. Russell) must say that his Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) had always clearly and distinctly stated the ob ject he had in view in that motion. Hi s Hon. Friend wished the tax to be limited for one year, for the pur pose of having an inquiry ; and he (Lord John Russell) must say, the House having agreed to limit the tax to one year, and his Hon. Friend having stated his object to the inquiry, to see how far the tax could be made more equitable, he thought the . whole country would now be disappointed if that inquiry did not take place. If the House did not agree to the motion for a Com mittee, when they came next year to consides the pro priety of continuing the tax, they would be in the same position in which they were at present. But if the pro posed inquiry took place, objections could then be stated to the operation of the tax, and plans suggested with a view to modify what might be considered :Houseq ties; at leaSt, such inquiry would give the some meant of deciding whether they would continue the tax for three years or one year, and with or without any qualification. The Hon. Member for Bucks (Mr. Dis raeli), although he gave his vote in favour of the limita tion of the tax to one year, thought the House could not expect that it would be done away with immedi ately; and if it were continued, that it was desirable it should be continued in a manner to show the country that all had been done that could be done to render the tax equitable.--(Hear.) He (Lord J. Russell) certainly gave no opinion now whether his Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) should ask for his Committee at the present time; but whenever he did move for that Committee, he (Lord J. Russell) s hould certainly give his vote in fa vour of the motion.—(llear.) Mr. DISRAE LI said, w hatever might be the motive for the vote the House came to on Friday, he thought they were morally pledged to tho appointment of thi s Committee. He very much disapproved of transferring the duties of the Government to Committees of that House; and he had shown his disapprobation of such a course on a previous occasion, by calling or adivisicre ee the Salaries committee. lie thought that subscqtent experience would have confirmed the House in the pro priety of the course ho took on that occasion. Wi t h regard to the present C ommittee, the Noble Lord (Lord J.liussell) rather raisuncierstood the observation which he made the other night. He ( \lr. Disraeli) was a ware that the general feeling of those who voted was, that although the proposition of the Honourable Member for Montrose was merely to s ubstitute one for three Kira as the duration of this tax, virtually it was in favour of a Cemmittee; and, es far as his (Mr. Mr. Disraelee) vote was concerned, he should m a k ° no attempt to get rid of the Comtnittee.—(!lsar, hear.) Sir G. CLERK said, under the terms of an Act of Parliament, every shilling of the public debt had been borrowed, and by the course they were about to pursue they would place the creditor under Schedule I) in a more unfavourable position than that in which he stood at present. He thought, therefore, that was a point which ought to be especially guarded against before the Committee was appointed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER laid he did not think anybody would suppose that he was parti cularly favourable to the appoir.tment of a Committee to invire into this subject.—(Laughter.) He had stated distnetly on a former occa:don, that he did not see that much good was likely to result from a Committee. Having premised that, he could only say he thought the House was morally committed to the appointment of a Committee. He felt that a sacred duty rested with the House to take care that they kept inviolable faith with the public creditor.—(Hear, hear.) The motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Montroso was for a Select Committee to inquire into the present mode of assessing and collecting the income and property-tax, and to con sider whether any other system of levying the same, so as to render the tax more equitable, could be adopted. There was not one word in the terms of his Hon. Friend's motion which implied the slightest breach of faith with the public creditor.—(Hear, hear.) The motion was then agreed to without a division. On the motion of Mr. FORSTER, Mr. Torment was added to the Committee on Customs, in the room of Mr. Fagen IVISIONS , KAFIR WAR. Lard J. RUSSELL proposed the nomination of the Select Committee on the relation of the Kafir tribes with this couutry, to consist of the Secretary at War, the ?Jarquis of Granby, Sir E. Buxton, Mr. Stanley, Colonel Thompson, Mr. Cardwell, Viscount Mandeville, Mr. E vans , Mr. Mackinnon, Mr. Carter, .s:r J. Waloaslev, Mr. Beaker, Admiral Dundee, Colonel Estcourt, and Mr. Hawes. Colonel DUNNE cemplained that in the Committee ,rhich the Noble Lord proposed to nominate, not a single Irish Member had been mentioned; and that not in that Committee alone, but in ell Committees of the House, Irish Members were systematically left out.—(hoar, hear.) If Ireland was considered a part of the United Kingdom, he thought it exceedingly unfair that its re presentatives should be constantly excluded in that way from Committees of the House.—(Bear, hear.) In other respects he thought the Committee had not been fairly se lected, and he would oppose its nomination. Lord J. RUSSELL said it was certainly not inten tional on his part that no Irish 'Gentlemen were nomi nated on this Committee. He had endeavoured to select the Committee in the fairest manner ho could, and it certainly had not occurred to ihim that any Irish Mem ber would be desirous of being placed upon that Com mittee. If the lion. and Gallant Mercla r was himself willing to serve upon it, he would strike out the name of Admiral Dundas, and insert that of the Hon. and Gal lant Member for Purtarlington. Mr. HOBHOUSE considered that the system of ap pointing Committees was most partial cud unjust, and if no other Member brought the subject forward, he would undertake to do so. The system was carried out in order to blind the country. Gentlemen on the Treasury benches compared lists, and having agreed among them selves, they excluded some of the most intelligent and able Members of the House. He would ask whether the omission of names was a privilege or an exclusion, when such Gentlemen as theaMembers for Leominster and King's Lynn were excluded? It was an exclusion. He would take leave to say that ho had been seven years Member of that House, and was not inferior to many Members who were appointed upon Committees. It was also a means of obtaining information which would enable Members to be in a condition to serve their country. It was also a means of gaining popularity. For example. when is Committee recommended the abolition of the office of the Master of the Mint, a Member of that Committee would go down to his conetituents and say, see what I have done.—(Hear, hear.) They saw an Hon. Member serving on Committees who was connected with what was called the leading journal. Parties were put upon these Committees that they might obtain popu larity. Ho thought, now that the Government had de puted the duty of the Government to Committees of that House, they ought to adopt the French system, and divide themselves into bureaus. The mode of nominating these Committees was most objectionable, and it was, in his judgment, a constitutional questicn, which ought to be coniidered, and ho should next session call the attention of the House to it. Mr. REYNOLDS considered that there ought to be at least three Irish Members upon the Committee, and complained of his own exclusion from two local Com mittees on former occasions. He would suggest to the Noble Lord not to press the nomination of the Com mittee that night, but to take time to consider the matter. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Hon. Member for Lincein was mistaken in stating that the Hon. Members for Leominster and King's Lynn had not been placed upon Committees. The Hon. Member for Leominster had served last ses sion upon the Attorney-General's Committee on the bankruptcy laws. Mr. HOBHOUSE explained that what he had said was, that the omission of a Member's name from a Com mittee could not be considered an exemption, because such rising and and able Members as the Hon. Member for King's Lynn and the Lion. Member for Leominster were placed upon Committees. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not say a word more on that subject, as ho had mis understood the Hon. Member; but with regard to Ire land, he could say, that for the last four or five weeks hardly one Committee had been appointed which had not one or two Trifle Members upon it. Mr. KEOGH said that this question had been before the House last year, when it was found that o f twenty one Committees Irishmen were excluded from fourteen. On the Irish Customs Committee Mr. Fagan had been appointed, although it was known that he was about to retire, and his place was supplied by Mr. Torment, who, owing to ill health was seldom able to he present. Ho would oppose the Committee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the person who had been selected was Mr. Teanent, Mem ber for one of the largest and most prosperous towns in Ireland. Mr. SADLEIR had no doubt whatever that the ex clusion of Irish Members was systematic, and he could not forget that there was not a single Irish Member on the Committee or the Commission appointed to inquire as to the best Transatlantic station. Colonel DUNNE moved the postponement of the Committee. Mr. HOBHOUSE seconded the motion. Lord JOHN RUSSELL observed that he had not the least objection to any number of Irish Gentlemen serv ing on the Committee. And as the Hon. Member for Dublin said that he thought that three would be a fair proportion, he was willing that the Committee should consist of seventeen Members, and that the name of Ad miral Dundas should be omitted. If the Hon. Member far Athlone would allow the nomination of the Com mittee to proceed now, he (Lord J. Russell) would upon Monday propose the names of three Irish Members. Mr. KEOGH would oppose the nomination until ha knew the names of the Irish Members. He protested against the Committee altogether. lie would, there fore, move the adjournment of the debate. Mr. HUHE appealed to the lion. Member not to persist in his opposition, after the concession of the Noble Lord. Colonel DUNNE was satisfied with the proposition of the Government, and entreated his Hon. Friend to forego his opposition. Mr. HO ARE considered the demand of his Hon. Friend perfectly fair. He wished merely to know the names which were to be nominated. Mr. SADLEIR saw no inconvenience arising from the postponement of the question. They_had not raised it for the mere purpose of a profitless discussion. Lord NAAS entreated his Hon. Friend to give way. The Noble Lord had conceded all that was demanded. Lord J. RUSSELL said that if he postponed the Committee until Mondayi he had no guarantee that the lion. Member would be more reasonable upon that day. Mr. BRIGHT was not aware that the Irish Members had suffered, or that any question had suffered by the exclusion of Irish Members—(Laughter)—because he agreed very much with the Hon. Member for Lincoln, that Committees were chosen in a very unsatisfactory manner, and that nine out of ten were nothing but a sham.—(Hear.) Ho was glad the question had been brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman behind him, and he hoped that in future the Irish Members would take a greater part in Committee work, and that there would be no cause to complain that they did not attend as well as English Members. Tho Noble Lord having consented to add the names of three Irish Mem bers, in common fairness he trusted the Hon. Member (Mr. Keogh) would not mar the effect of that which had been done by insisting that the Committee should not be appointed to-night. Mr. KEOGH could not defer to the advice of the Honourable Member for Manchester, and he hoped the friendly sneer directed to Irishmen would be remem bered not only by Irish Members in the House, but by Irishmen out of doors, and that might be important to the Hon. Gentleman. It was very unpleasant to object to the name of any Gentleman, particularly to the name of any Member from his part of the country; and, there fore, he must persevere, at the risk of incensing the Hon. Member for Manchester. in objecting to the ap pointment of a portion of the Committee until it could be appointed as a whole. Mr. BRIGHT said it was entirely a mistake if it was thought he intended a sneer on Irish Members.--(Hear, hear.) No one had paid more attention or taken more interest than he had in Irish business; but that was a very dull place, and it was a common thing, if a double meaning could be attached, to rai se a laugh and convey a meaning different to that intended. The House then divided, when there apps For the adjournment of the debate 131 A g ainst "' "' 115 Majority ..• "• ••• • ar, the Marquis T G h r a o p y 8 , The following gentlemen were then appointed on s the Committee :—Mr. Secretary -at-W M St a a n n d le ,, y v , ill C e, olo xi ne r l . onS,ir Edward card Buxton,we l Carter, Sir Joshua Evans, Mr. Mackinnon, M. c W ou a r im t, Visc M ou r t . notice that he sh ould p ro p ose the salneyd,lsitlirr..llßaowokees.r, Admiral Dunda s, Colonel Est- Mr. KEOGH gave third time, and passed. Dunne e on to o th f e M c r. Sad Committee, Mr. Rey nolds, and Colonel tee r B re l a L d L a . PROCESS AN 1$ PRACTICE (IRELAND) BILL. ThisCßOillrviO•ars,saDtte O a U short SE discussion,HO E 8 Mr. REYNOL DS complained that the Attorney- General for Ireland had, in violation of a promise given by the Noble Lord at the hea a thin d of the House at G overnm nearly ent, pantwoed the Bill through a stage in o'clock in the morning. Mr. FOX MAULE said the promise of the Noble Lord was only wit O h n res that occas to Bionills there were to which aa number - ti o n was made. of Irishmen present, not one of whom objected to the Bill passing through Committee. The amendments as proposed were then agreed to. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the Houle adjourned at a_Quarter to Two o'clock. (From the Vctes and Preceelings of the Howe of Conarons) THURSDAY, MAY 8. MALT-TAX. Motion made, and Question put, " That leave be given to bring in a Bill to repeal the Malt-tax." The House divided : MINORITY-AYES, 122. Adderley, C. B. Farnham, E. B. Newdegate, C. N. Alcock, Thomas Fellowes, E. O'Brien, Sir T. Bagge, William Floyer, John O'Connell, John Bagot, William Forbes, William O'Flaherty, AntkOnY Barron, Sir H. Frewen, C. H. Palmer, Robert Barrow, W. 11. Fuller, A. E. Pechell, Sir G. Bass, M. T. Gallwey, Sir W. P. Plumptre, J. P. Bennet, Philip Galway, Viscount PortaLlMelville Beresford, William Gaskell, J. M. Prime, Richard Best, John Gilpin, R. T. Pugh, David Blackstone, W. S. Gooch, E. S. Rendlesham, Lord Blake, M. J. Granby,lMarquis of Rento n , J. C. Blandford, Marquis Greene, John Reynolds, John Booker, T. W. Guernsey, Lord Rufford, Francis Booth, Sir It. G. Halford, Sir Henry Rushout, Capt a i n Bramston, T. W. Harris, Captain Sadleir, John : Broadley, 11. H e neage, Edward Salwey , "Colonel Brooke, Lord Henley, J. W. Scully , Francis Buck, L. W. iggins, George Seymer, H. K. Burghley, Lord Iliblyard, T. B. Sibtliorp, Colonel Burroughes, H. N. Hill, Lord E. Somerset, Captain Cabbell, B. B. Hornby, John Spooner, R. Child, Smith Jolliffe, Sir AV. H. Stafford, Augustus Cholnicley, Sir M. Keating, Robert S.ephenson, ItoWrt Christopher, R. Keogh, Wil;!ain Stuart, johu Cobbold, J. C. Knightley, Sir C. Stuart, 11. Coles, 11. B. Knox, W. S. Stunt, 11. G. Colvile, C. R. Lawless, Cecil Sullivan, 3iichael Compton, 11. C. Lennox, Lord 11. G. Talbot, J. 11. 03nolly, Thomas Lewisham, Viscount Trollop°, Sir J. Cotton, W. 11. Long - , W. Tyler, Sir G. Crawford. W. S. Maher, N. Tyre,ll, Sir J. Curteis, 11. M. Meagher, Thor,.as Vyse, R. 11. R. H. Devereux, John T. Manners, Lord G. Waddington, David Disraeli, B. Manners, Lord J. Waddington, H. S. Dod, J. W. March, Earl of Walley, T. Dodd, G. Mattusell, T. P. Williams, John Drummond, Henry Miles, William Williams, W. Duncombe, A. Milton,•Viscouut Yorke, E. T. Dunne, Colonel Moore, G. ii. TELLERS. Du Pre, C. G. Mullings. J. R. Cayley, E. S. Evelyn, William J. Mundy, William Hume, J. MAJORITY—NOES, 238. Abdy, Sir Thomas Gladstone, W. E. Paget, Lord C. Acland, Sir T. Glyn, G. C. Palmer, Roundell Adair, R. ShaSto Graham, Sir J. Palmerston, Vis. Aglionby, H. A. Greene, Thomas Parker, John Anson, Colonel Grenfell, Charles W. Peel, Colonel Armstrong, B. B. Grey, Sir G. Peel, Frederick Ashley, Lord Grey, Ralph W. Perfect, Robert Bagshaw, John Grosvenor, Lord R. Peto, Samuel M. Baines, M. T. Guest, Sir John Pigott, Francis Baring, Sir F. Hall, Sir B. Pilkington, James Baring, Thomas Hallyburton, Lord Pinney, William Baring, Francis Harmer, Sir John Plowden, W. H. Bell, Jacob Hardcastle, J. A. Power, Nicholas Bellew, R. M. Harris, Richard I'owlett, Lord W. Berkeley, Admiral Ilastie, Alexander lt , awdon, Colonel Berkeley, Henry F. nestle, Archibald Reid, Colonel Berkeley, C. L. Hatchell, John Ricardo, J. L. Ricardo, Osman Bernal, Ralph Ilawes , Ben j . Birch, Sir T. Hayes , S ir E. Rice, E. R. Blair, Stephen Headlam , T. E. Rich, Henry Blakemore, R. llcald, James Richar Colonel ds, Richard Bouverie, E. P. Heathcoat , Jo hn Rornilly, Bowles, Admiral Heatheote, Sir G. J. Romilly, Slr John": Russell, Lord John Boyle, Colonel Heneag,e, G. H. Bright, John Henry, Alexander Russell, Edward S. Brocklehurst, J. llcrbert, Sydney Russell, F. C. Brockman, E. D. Hervey, Lord A. Sanders, George Brotherton, J. Heywood, James Scropc, G. P. Brown, W. Heyworth, L. Seymour, 11. D. Balkeley, Sir R. B. llindley, C. Seymour, Lord Busfeild, W. Hobhouse, T. B. ShelburnelEarl of Cardwell, Edward Hodges, T. L. Sheridan, R. B. Caulfeild, J. M. Hodges, T. TWisden Slaney, R. A. Cavendish, C. C. Hogg, Sir J. W. Smith, Vernon Cavendish, G. 11. Howard, Lord E. Smith, John Abel Cavendish, W. U Howard, C. W. G. Smith, M. T. Charteris, Francis Hutt, William Smith, John B. Childers, J. W. Inglis, Sir R. Smollett, A. Clay, James Jermyn, Earl Somers, J. P. Clay, Sir W. Kershaw, James Somerville, Sir W. Clements, C. S. Labouchere, H. Spearman, H. J. Clifford, 11. 111. Langston, J. H. Stanford, J. F. Cockburn, Sir A. Lawley, B. R. Stanley, W. 0. I Coke, lion. E. K. Lemon, Sir C. Stans field, W. R. C. Colebrooke, Sir T. Lewis, Sir T. Stanton, W. H. Collins, William Lewis, G. C. Strickland, Sir G. Cowan, Charles Lindsay, Colonel Stuart, Lord J. Cowper, W. F. Littleton, E. R. Talbot, C. R. Craig, Sir W. G. Loch, James Tancred, 11. W. Crowder, R. B. Locke, Joseph Tenison, Edward K. Currie, Raikes Lockhart, A. E. Tennent, , . J. Dalrymple, Captain Loveden, Pryse Ihicknesse, It. A. Davie, Sir H. Lushington, C. Thompson, Colonel Dawson, T. V. Lygon, Gen. Thornely, T. Denison, J. E. Mackinnon, W. A. Tollemache, F. J. D'Epicourt, C. T. M'Gregor, John Townley. R. G. Douglas, Sir C. 11I`Taggart, Sir J. Trail, George Drumlanriss, Viscount Mahon, Viscount Trelawny, J. S. Drummond, Home Mangles, R. D. Trevor, Thomas Duff, George S. Marshall, J." G. Vane, Lord;li. Duff, James Marshall, William Verner, Sir W. Duke, Sir James Martin, C. W. Vesey, Thomas Duncan, George Matheson, Alex. Villiers, Viscount Duncuft, John Matheson, Sir J. Villiers, Charles Dunelas, Admiral Matheson, Colonel Vivian, J. H. Dundas, Sir D. Mende, Fox Wahnsley, Sir J. Ebrington, Viscount Melgund, Viscount Walter, John Egerton, Sir P. Miles, P. W. S. Watkins, Colonel Ellice, Edward Milner, W. M. Wawa, J. T. Ellice, F., Jun. Milnes, R. M. Welby, G. E. • Ellis, John Mitchell, T. A. Wellesley, Lord C. Elliot, John E. Moffatt, George West, F. R. Einlyn, Viscount Moody, C. A. Westhead, J. P. Enfield, Viscount Morgan, H. K. G. Willcox, Brodie Eltcourt, J. B. Morris, David Willyams, 11. Easton, Earl Mostyn, E. M. L. Williamson, Sir H. Evans, J. Mowatt, Francis Wilson, James Evans, William Mulgrave, Earl of Wilson, Matthew Ewart , Willi am Niche% J. Wodelionse, E. Fergus, John Norreys, Lord Weod, Sir Charles Ferguson, Sir R. Norreys, Sir D. Wood, Sir W. P. Foley, J. 11. O'Connell , M. J. Wrightson, W. B. Forlyce, A. D. Ogle, S. C. Wyvill, Marrnaduke Forster, Matthew OA William Young, Sir John Forteseue, J. W. Owen, Sir John TriAatas. Fox, W..}. Packe, C. W. llayter, W. G. , Gibsoil, T. M. Paget, Lord A. Hill, Lord M. THE GREAT EXHIBITION. Yesterday the MIK of visitors to the Exhibition was greater than ever, and the sum taken at the (lure could not have been much short of 2,000/. This is of course entirely the proceeds of the ss. entrance fee, and does not irciude the large amount still accruing from the sale of season tickets. All connected with the undertaking are very naturally overjoyed at the success in a financial point of view which thus attends it, and which is mani fested more and more decisively every day. The im provement in the weather has acted with magical effect upon the flaw of visitors, and brought out the beauty and fashion of London into Hyde-park just as sunshine ' developes butterflies. They take possession of the Crys tal Palace in a manner which must make the Royal Commission have sundry misgivings about their power to keep it in their own hands now, or to have it removed a few months hence. A man may be coerced, but how are ladies to be dealt with shout,' they take it into their heads to keep the building as a promenade, for which it really seems to be well adapted, when the exigencies of our variable climate arc remembered? o:her cities, under more genial skies, have their places of fashionable resort, where friends meet and chat and part without the bother of a formal call. here, unhappily, the wea ther destroys one-half of our opportunities to learn cheerfulness, and our stiffness of character does the rest. One would think, from present appearances, that the Crystal Palace is likely to be seized upon by the public as supplying a great want in this respect. Of course, at present, and while thronged with thousands of specta tors, it is not a place of rendezvous. Friends may be there and on the look-out for each other for hours to gether without meeting. In fact, this is ge nrrally the case, but as the first excitement wears off simple arrangements might be made for obviating incon veniences of this kind arising out of the size of the building. One particular central spot might be se lected where messages might be left that you had stepped into Tunis or China, or gone to Egypt er Italy, or started on a trip to America. Every one might be thus forthcoming to his friends at once, or if ho wished to avoid them, as is sometimes unfor tunately the case, the Crystal Palace with its endless courts and avenues, with it secluded nooks for raw pro duce and paper-hangings, is just the place for that pur pose. Even now, when feom 20,000 to 30,000 of the i most nquintive and adventurous people on the face of the . earth are busily engaged in rummaging its multifa rious contents, it is quite possible to creep away into so litudes uninvaded by the bustling Babel elsewhere. Such is the size of the building, no part of which is overcrowded, while some still remain unvisited. Everybody when be enters it has an intense desire to walk from end to end, to examine first one compartment and then another, and to test his absorb ing powers in the way of sight. seeing for one day. Under the influence of strong curiosity feats of pedes trianism are performed, the results of which are ches ou riouely manifested as the hour fo r closing approa. Ladies are then seen anxiously casting about for seats in the already overcrow ded benches with which the nave and transept are furnished. An army of of ex hausted finery reposes under the g rateful shade t h e s ame e lms and palm trees s in g ularl y blended in scene. There they rest themselves after the fatigues of their progress through the industries of nations and con tinents, reluctant to quit a spectacle where.tbeirwatch adult- ration has been so strongly ar oused, and quietly ing the play of the groat crystal fountain before them, to and fro,. the varie the stream of gay company p assing gated effects of light shot through the glittering canopy overhead, and all the endless colours and forms of a perspective into whic h art has gathered her choicest trophies. What if this vast collection was destroyed by fire? Many cities might be burnt to the ground without caus i n g such a sensation as that would. Yet to that risk the Crystal Palace was for a moment exposed yes terday morning. The flue attached to a gas stove in one of the offices of the contractors became heated, and i g nited a piece of wood with bunting which rested upon or touched it. A piece of the burning cloth fell into a small open cask of Indian corn , which stood, as the Irish say " convenient." All this mischief was brew ing secret in the southern part of the colonial . col lection on the east side. The drapery of the counter concealed what had happened, and it was only when the smoke began to break forth that an alarm was raised. Fortunately such casualties have been foreseen and amply provided for. There are no l b ess . than a dozen large fire-engines within the building, a e t s h id o e r s o 7 h a ly m supply of water easily obtainable or ganized force ready to ple act at a moment's ,ae . notiee.. The fire of yesterday was extinguished before it had time to do more than slightly char one plank of wood,. and no anxiety need be caused by warn an occurrence It will, however, wo trust, so triflin,g. the building to be on alert, chance. The Executi ve Committee all ittee continue to receive all kinds of applications from the country with ref erence to tne terms of admission when the low prices commence. Among others several clergymen have written to them offering to bring up with them all their parishioners in a grand a body. Fox and Hen , ',erson are contemplating pudding to be entertainment of roast beef and plum given by their foremen and chief workmen to the work men from foreigu countries in the building. A general desire seems felt that every facility bll.ollld be given to the industrial classes to see end enjoy t he magn , cent spectacle spectacle which their l a bour has c creamp late ted. Even t he contractors for th® catalogue lowing their hands a brief pa use to examh are chronicled to fu ture ages by their toil. At present they are s e lli ng about 10,000 copies of the small catalogue per day—an enormous number when the bulk of the volume is re membered. As yet only one portion of the larger work has apposed, and both from unavoidable causes: hare many deficiencies. It is therefore necessary, and, when the importance of a correct register is considlersd, em treraely desirable, that exhibitors whose contributions are not properly entered should take steps to ha ve th e necessary emendations made. In this way perfect ac curacy can alone be attained, and the catalogue . of the Great Exhibition rendered what it ought to be—o per manent and authoritative book of reference to all who may interest themselves in the industrial progress of the world up to the year 1851. With reference to the .coun tries overtaken in their rreparations by Die opening end compelled now to contusion and labour whit° others are exhibiting their contributions, France i s the most conspicuous instance of that tardiness.. The Turk is proverbially slow, the Ilussian is wizen up in the Baltic, the East India Company bare half the world to cross, and the Cape of Good Hope to double before they can bring the produce of their vest empire to swell the wonders of the Crystal Palace, bat the French have only a small gut separating their shore from ours, and we are iced ny one of their favourite writors, thet their motto is " toujours prets." France waited till the last moment, bat she has not gone ahead. Jules Janin round nobody among his countrymen anxi ous on the eve of the Exhibition, so certain was it that they would be ready next day. A week has now passed the opening, yet France is still far behindband, and lime many Gays more of pre p aration before her. in our own divisio n o f t h e b u ildi ng a few things are creeping into spots left unoccup : e d, or w hi c h a t th e l as t moment it was found impossible to complete in time. Among these Was bre.onlit in end placed in the nave yesterday a beautiful model, execut e d by Mr. Deighton, of Great College-ser, *tV,,stuli ester , o f t h e i n t er i or o f h er Ma 3esty a iheutre. The decorations are all carefully re presente3 ; anal to the multitude s who throng the centre of the Crystal I.alaee, thi s work will convey a very ac curate and pleasing idea . of the extreme l y li g ht an d el.- plat, yet rich style in which " Her Majesty's" is fitted up. THE DECK OF THE " OUTWARD BOUND." (From Eliza cook's Journal.) How seldom we dream dY the mariners' grave, Far down by the coral strand ; How little we think of the winds and waves, When all we love are on land. The hurricane comes and the hurricane go es , And little the heed we take. Though the tree may snap as the tempest blows, And the walls of our homestead shake. But the north-east gale tells a different tale, With a voice of fearful sound, When a loved one is under a close-reefed sail, On the deck of an " outward-hound." How wistfully then we look on the night, As the threatening clouds go by— As the wind gets up and the last faint light Is dying away in the sky. o A w n d t h j e u d . a g m e e by w g b u e s n t d m i n a g s t t ree, How we li s t en an d gaze w ith a silent lip, tossild the ship, And arouse the mi g h ty sea . Ah, sadly then do we meet the day, When the signs of storm are found, And pray for the loved one far away, On the deck of an " outward-bound!" There is one that I cherished when hand in hand We roved o'er lowland and lea ; And 1 thought my love for that one on the land Was as earnest as love could be. But now that one has gone out on the tide, I find that I worship the more; And I think of the waters deep and wide, As I bask on the flowers on shore. I have watched the wind, I have watched the stars, And shrunk from the tempest sound ; For my heart-strings are wreath'd with the Mender spa rs That carry the " outward-bound." I have Wept when the zephyr forgot to creep, And the sky was without a frown, But I started soon from that fretful sleep, With the dream of a ship going down. I have sat in the field when the corn was in shock, And the reaper's hook was bright, But my fancy conjured the breaker and rock, In the dead of a moonless night. Oh ! I never will measure affection again, While treading earth's flowery mound, But wait till the loved one is far on the main, On the deck of an ",outward-bound." EmzA. Cook. COURT CIRCULAR. Immediately after the state supper at Buckingham Palace, en Wednesday night, a Highland Reel was plas el by Mr. Mackay, her Majesty s piper, and was danced by the following ladies and gentlemen:— The Earl of Gifford and Lady Rachel Russell. Lord James P. Murray and Miss Ferguson. Sir James R. Mackenzie and Lady Alice Douglas. Sir Michael Shaw Stewart and Miss Stewart. Cluny Macpherson and Lady Anne Maeleange. Munro c Novar and Lady Elizabeth Duncan. Mr. J. F. Campbell of Islay and the Hon. Lucy Kerr. After the ordinary reel, the reel of Tulloeh was danced, in which the same ladies and gentlemen joined. Jullien'e Lard performed the following dances in the ball-room (luring the night: Quadrilles— L'linfient Prodigue, The Great Exhibition, and the St. Leger. Valses—La Mandolins, Roes) de Mai, and Valse d'Amour. Polkas—The Crystal Fountain, and Polka des Poig narde. Geleps—The Review, and the Amazon and Tiger. The principal cornet was performed by Herr Kccrii , ,-, and the principal 11 lgeelet by Monsieur Collieet. The Queen 1 eturne3 into the ball-room after supper, and dancing was kept up until two e'eleck in the morn ing, when her Majesty and his liayal Highness Princes Albert retired, accompanied by their illustrious visitors the Prince and Princes of Prussia and Prince Frederick William. His Royal Highness Prince Henry of the Netherlands left at the same time. The ball then con cluded, and the numerous company quitted the palace. Their Royal Highnesses the Duchess of Gloucester, the Duchess of Cambridge, and the Princess Mary, visited the Queen yesterday. Their Royal Highnesses also visited her Royal Highness the Princess of Prussia, at Buckingham Palace. His Royal Highress Prince Albert, attended by Lieut.-Colonel F. H. Seymour, rode out on horseback yesterday morning. Their Royal Highnesses the Prince and Princess of Prussia, with the Princess Louisa, attended by the Countess A. de liacke. the Countess Oriolla, Count Piikler, and Major von Bayen, visited and inspected yes terday morning the Diorama of the Overland Route to India. The Prince of Wales and Prince Alfred, attended by Mr. Birch, took a drive in en open carriage yesterday. The Princess Royal, and the Princesses Alice and Helena, took au airing yesterday in an open carriage and four. Her Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince Albert, with their Royal Highnesses the Prince and Princess of Prussia, took a drive in an open landau and four yes terday afternoon. Colonel the Hon. Charles Grey and Lieutenant -Colonel F. 11. Sumour attended on horses. back. The Queen ha .1 a dinner party yesterday at Bucking ham Palace. The company included her Royal High ness the Deehess of Kent, their Royal Higuesses the Prince and Princess of Prussia mad prince Frederick William of Prussia, the Duke and Duchess of Bucelench, the Duke of Newcastle, the Marquis and Marchioness of Westminster, the Marquis and Marchietieess. d; Breadalbane, Lady Fanny Howard, the Cou e n s tes Hack; the Countess Oriolla, the D3roness I ron Pe nann. Earl of Carlisle, Count Piikler, Heing. The band of the 2d Count Goltz, Colonel Fischer,atenLion th A , the during dinner. Life and Majo r GuardsL iu t n a l li IA is her Royal Higbneas Kew yesterday mornie . g, a • Her Royal Highnese the Duchess of Kent went to t s h t e . Duchess Jani es James's, o inf ilsfiz,nabfrtiedrghneen, nriu.teuhr Duchess returning g o f t 0 Gloucester Clarenc e b visitedou a, Her Royal highness t her Royal Highness t h e Duchess of Kent yesterday. . 1 A Cabinet It was sten e y ord John liussell, Cowie' was held yesterday afternoon, at the ended b end collet . , the Marquis or Lansdowne, the Earl Sir George Grey, Viscount Palmerston, Ertl Chancellor of the Exchequer, gig Frindis o t F h:e 1 sr Grey,l iLtrtnhod:Cf Fo r eign-o ffice. fl . Ba ring, Lord Broughton, the Earl of Carlisle, the Right Hon. Henry Labouchere, and the Right Hon, Fox Matte: The Council sat one hour. ' The Council of Chairmen Of the Juries of the Royal Commission for the Exhibition of 1851, met yeste rday at the Exhibition in Hyde-park. Present.— Class I.—Sir Henry De la Beche C B FRS f • • I .-- . - . Class 2.—M.onsieur A. Dumas. Class 4.—Professor Owen, F.R.S. Class 5 A.—Earl Jersey. Class 7.—Mr. I. K. Brunel, F.R.S. Class B.—Baron Charles Dupin. Class 9.—Mr. P. Pusey, M.P,, F.R.S. Class 10.—Sir David Brewster, F.R.S. Class 10 A.—Sir 11. Bishop. Gass 11.—Sir James Anderson. Class 12.—Dr. Schafhsult, for Professor Eleresann• Class 13,—Mr. G. T. Kemp. Class 14.—Count Von Harrack. Class 16.—Hon. Colonel Anson. Clans 17.—Monsieur Van de Weyer. Class 18.—Mr. Henry Tucker. Class 19.—Professor I3olley. Class 20.—Mr. William Felkin. Class 21.—Lord Wharncliffe.. DC Ire. sps3lsoy. f a a l : r d ' Cl ass 22.—Hon. flo m. ra us c o e u f ey r e. ;; l : r Cheva li er de . R,,ttrig. rg:_for,rwigrilior Pieei. Class 24.—Lord do la 0 a ) for Senor Den Class 25.—The Duke of : e Class 26.—Professor _auley, C c l l a tie s e s 2 2 7 8 ..—__ D Ge o sl u e Lz r a n i na t i n Jos quim Alfonzo.ount Canning. • Class 29.—Visf Von Viebahn. -11e L ri e v atenant - Colonel Lloyd; and Lieuto• d attended. a ! deputation had an interview with Lord Want War- , ria alr. Lsw Seymour yesterday, at the office of her Majesty's Cem rnixinounmeresrcofusWdeopoiditsaetniodnFionrcestasing Mr. Hodges, M.P.,., d Mr. Fw headed lu by the Duke of Rich nland Mr. Frewen, M.P., headed by the Duke of flrnh l ou d, ha d r a e ninterview yesterday with Lord John Rus sell, at his official resid ence i n 'Downing-street, on the subject cf the Hop Duties. The Attil - ley-General had an interview yesterday with Lord John Russell. The Finance Committee of the Royal the/Exhibition the Exhibition of 1851 met yesterday, St t . Ceratn.on for Buildin itt Hyde-park. Present :—Earl Granville H. Labouchere, (Chairman), Lord Overstone, g Sir Alexander Spearman, , M.P., and Colonel M.P., Mr. T. F. Gibson, illtii."Cubitt, Mr. Cobden, Mr ' r ! ' , ° e ' Committee). Mr. Reid (Chairman of the Ex 13 117: Dr i nuizi 0 ( s weecrree t parr ey i e n , t . a. sin eactuteunclance. Me. Cole and at the Colonial- Dispatches were received yesterday Office from the Governor n f the West India Eden s. —_- ' with eighteen hem r and three. The Sussex Oa k P or t smo uth on Tuesday. IT John Priest master , ied arrives at ere gold at Us. per linvirerl. quartera of mackerel, wlli