The Sun. — London, England, 1850-03-16 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, March 15. Lord LANGDALE, in the absence of the Lord Chan cellor, took his seat on the Woolsack shortly after Five o'clock. PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS. The Duke of ARGYLE gave notice that on Tuesday 'ext he should present a petition from Scotland, praying that their Lordships would not give their assent to any measure altering the constitution of parochial schools in that country, and that he should then make some Observations on the important subject to which the peti tion referred. AFFAIRS OF GREECE. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE wished, before the ' Noble Lord (Stanley) proceeded to put the question with ' respect to the affairs of Greece, of which he had given notice, to pit it to the Noble Lord whether it would tend to answer any public purpose to enter into any discussion on the subject while negotiations were still pending. Lord STANLEY felt that the appeal which the Noble Marquis had made to him had placed him in no small difficulty. He was most anxious to have the information he required, but he should, after • the appeal that had been made to him, limit himself most - strictly to the line prescribed by the Noble Marquis. The Noble Lord then, at some length, adverted to what had taken place in ;Greece, and to the declarations cf • the French Minister and Lord Palmerston, that this country had excepted the intervention of France, and observed that it might naturally have been expected that no time would be lost in acting on that ac ceptance, but so far from that being the case, on the 19th of Feb. a courier arrived at Athens, bearing, it was said, a private dispatch from Lord Palmerston, approving of the conduct of Mr. Wyse, but studiously avoiding any allu sion to the acceptance of French mediation. News had been received from Greece of a later date, in which there was no indication that the blockade had been raised except what had been said in another place last night. He must remind the Noble Marquis that the more conciliatory tone of the second dispatch from Count Nesselrode was dictated in the expectation that the acceptance of the good offices of France would be acted on. There could be no doubt that Russia and France expected that such would be the case. It was not his desire to enter at the present moment more fully into the subject, be cause he felt certain that it was the desire of the Noble Marquis that the good understanding between France, Russia, and England, should be preserved. He would therefore satisfy himself by merely asking the Noble Marquis the cause of the delay that had taken place in suspending hostilities after the mediation of France had been accepted. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that the first intimation his Noble Friend at the head of Foreign Af fairs bad of the intention of the French Government to offer their mediation was on the sth of February, and that was communicated to him in a letter from M. Ilrouin de Lhuys, who had acknowledged that he had not then been formally authorised to make that offer. His Noble Friend might therefore have declined to act on that information, but on the very same day he wrote a letter to Mr. Wyse informing him of the expected offer of good offices on the part of France. Those offers were not received till some time afterwards, and, therefore, he did not see that his Noble Friend was to blame. Of this he was sure, that the greatest expedition had been used in putting an end to the state of things that had occurred in Greece. After some observations from Lord STANLEY and Lord BROUGHAM, the subject dropped. COMMONS ENCLOSURE BILL. This Bill went through Committee. AUDIT OF RAILWAY ACCOUNTS. This Bill was read a third time, and on the motion of Earl GRANVILLE was ordered to be referred to a Select Committee. EMIGRANT SHIPS. The Earl of iSIOUNTCASIIEL moved for returns of the penalties imposed on owners, masters, surgeons, &c., of emigrant *ships, for breaches of the Passengers Act; and also for copies of statements effecting the cha `rector of the surgeon, superintendent, master, and officers of the emigrant ship Sobraon, referred to in dispatches 116 and 242, from Governor A. C. Fitzroy to Earl Grey. He said he had obtained much informa tion on the subject, and from all he had ascertained, he found that the unfortunate emigrant, from the momsnt he quitted his home to his landing in the colony, he bad no security for his safety or protection. He had already detailed to the House two cases, but they were not to suppose that they were only the exceptions, for he could gore them a list of such. The emigrants during a great part of their passage were supplied with bad water and with bad food. The effect often was to produce disease. Why not have the water filtered? Various frauds were practised upon emigrant ships. It had been discovered that alleged filtered water was often nothing more than dirty Thames water. He did not accuse the Colonial- iffice of suffering this, for it was, doubtless, done without their knowledge. The fact, how ever, being known, ought to be enough of itself to put emigrant agents on their guard. The inspectors of the Government should receive the strictest instructions on this subject. The Passengers' Act should be strictly en forced. He did not affirm that these complaints referred to all emigrant ships, but they did apply to some of them. The masters and officers of these ships, when detected in improper practices, received very slight punishment. The magistrates generally showed more sympathy with them than with the poor passengers, who, it disposed, seldom knew how to go about proceed ings for punishing these gentlemen. The proceedings affecting the officers of the Concord proved that there was not sufficient care taken by the emigration agent to prevent abuses in some casts, and in others he was not aware of the fraud. The agent could not open every tierce of meat. He could only open one here and there, and all the others. many of which were full of bad men', escaped. That happened in this way—the ship upon the return from the previous voyage often had a number of tierces of provisions over. These were con ceale 1, and subsequently were placed among the fresh stores. These often caused met tality or disease amongst the emigrants. Earl GREY—Would the Noble Lord state any one ship in which the passengers had suffered mortality from this cause? Lord MOUNTCASHEL said he thought he had one statement in the South Australian news. Earl GREY said he did not want a newspaper, but some official statement, upon the truth of which they could rely. Lord MOUNTCHASEL said he would read the ex tract. Tno Noble Lord here read the statement which Affected Captain Pearce, of the John Munn. That was a specimen of what often occurred on board emigrant ships. No matter what the Noble Earl's opinion was, the press, the public, and the House of Commons would 'compel him to see to these things, which he affirmed were facts. Nothing should prevent him from persevering on this subject. The Noble Earl (Earl Mountehasel) here read some statements affecting certain surgeons on board emigrant ships, from evidence in papers before the House. Little or no attention had been paid by the Colonial-office to the character and qualification of the doctor.— [EARL GREY—" No."] He looked behind the scenes, and would point the Noble Earl's attention to the statements in the report of the Emigration Commissioners for 1848-9. At page 19, it was stated that the surgeon of the ship Waverley had behaved improperly towards a female emigrant. That was their protector the surgeon. Page 38—The surgeon of the Lysander was unable to preserve proper respect fur himself or proper discip line. P. 51—On board the Thomas Arbuthnot, the doctor being found in bed with one of the unmarried females, was recommended not to be re-appointed. P. 53 —The surgeon of the Walter Norris was found ineffi cient. P- 83—The surgeon of the Thetis was careless of his duties and habitually drunk, and much sickness prevailed on board. P. 86—The • surgeon was in bad health, and unable adequately to discharge his duties. P. 117—The surgeon on board the Earl Grey was said to have shown want of judgment and discretion. The matron was also inefficient, and some of the officers paid improper attentions to the orphan Irish girls. The crew took liberties with several of the young unmarried women. From this cause the whole of these Belfast girls had been branded, but that was doing neither justice to them nor to the guardians of the Belfast Union, as a great majority of them were found of excellent character. At p. 336 reference was made to improper conduct on board the Sobraon. On board the James Gibbs the sur geon appeared to have connived at improper intercourse with some of the females by the officers and crew, p. 193. The doctor and matron of the ship Incon stant, in consequence of indiscretion, were recom mended not to be re-appointed. His Lordship then alluded to several other hardships endured by emigrants to New Australia, and hoped that Government would in terpose their influence for the suppression of such acts as those practised by the surgeons on board those emi grant ships. He then alluded to several cases, but more p ar ticularly to the case of a party of engineers who went to that colony, and complained most bitterly of the usage they had received at the hands of the surgeon, captain, and other officers. The Noble Earl next ad verted to the infamous system of seduction practised on the wives of those emigrants who emigrated six months after their husbands, and considered it most discreditable that Government should not take precautions against such an outrage on public virtue. He should, therefore, _move that there be laid before the House a return of all the penalties imposed and levied on owners, masters, and captains and others, for breaches of the Act of sth and -6th of Victoria, known by the name of the Passengers Act, since the same Act came into force; specifying the amount of fine, the year when such penalty was enforced, the period when paid, how such penalty was disposed . of, the name of the ship, the name of the offender, and the offence h e comm i tte d, toget h er w i t h t h e name f the port whore the party was convicted, and the officers who en forced it. Earl GREY said that be considered that the Noble Earl (Lord Mounteashel) had no grounds for the charges he had brought forward against the conduct of the surgeons in the emigrant ships. He did not think • that the paragraph read by the Noble Lord, from a • newspaper, was of sufficient authority to be relied on as a proof. lie admitted that there was one solitary case in which severity had been used, but that was a case where subordination should be observed, and where the most arbitrary demeanour was evinced by only one per sonage, on whom it was thought right to inflict a trifling punishment. But there appeared before the public the ' evidence of numbers of emigrants who. bore testimony to the attention of the surgeons and captains, and all 'item pisoired in evidence that the greatest attention had , been /*attune. When j,the Noble Earl (Lord Mount castelyalluelt4the impurity of the water, he s h ou ld m ' say aven r 2 onished at such an allusion, as such .. 814 tritrini44! -, Bs ,oh more general in other ships th an 1 - -'r ... 6 weekf 4 eeni2.e. it ships; for every emigrant ship ' 'T" -. lg ; A* 41 : mined, and particular caution is ':.mice -I,,hiv,i •. e"Passengers be properly provided for. a s ,- ; The telele g tsff then referred to the sickness that many Hof t at' s endured, attributable to their strict at- tendon to the WNW patients on board their respective ships. When the Noble Earl (Lord Mountcashel) al luded to the mortality, he considered that he should look to the circumstances of those cases, and then he would find that that mortality prevailed among children, whose age was not sufficiently advanced to endure the hardships of a sea voyage of such a length of time as that from this country to New Australia. Lord MONTEAGLE said, that all he could discover, and he considered that he had considerable sources of information, was, that the system of emigration was per fectly satisfactory, and that the charges brought forward by the Noble Lord (Lord Mountcashel) had no founda tion, so far as he could julge. Though he admitted that there were some few deviations, yet he should say that those deviations were not errors either on the part of the surgeons or of the captains. He had no doubt that the law would be carried out in this case, should it be necessary to apply it. The colonists were most deeply interested in the questioa; and here he might ask at whose expense was the Australian emigration carried on ? The Australian emigration was chiefly carried on at the expense of the colonists, who were most deeply interested in emigration thither ; and if the instances of bad conduct were the rule, and the instances of good conduct the exception, did their Lordships not think that the colonists would make representation on the sub ject ? Did they think that they would not have peti tions lying on the table of the House, calling► for a re dress? With the exception of a newspaper authority, they had no complaints on this subject ; and the single complaint now before their Lordships, was the only evi dence that was at present furnished to their Lordships' House. His •,(Lord Monteagle's) Noble Friend (Earl Grey) and himself differed on the subject of emigration; but, in a case of this description, all he knew of the character of his Noble Friend satisfied him, and any one who knew; his Noble Friend when Secretary-at-War, must fell satisfied that he would not fail to turn his at tention to this subject, and cause proper inquiry to be made into it. He would not longer occupy the time of their Lordships, and it was only on account of the mis chiefs which those general statements might produce, that he ventured, at that late hour, to occupy their Lord ships' attention. Lord LANESBOROUGFI thought that the subject ought to be inquired into, and he had no doubt that the Noble Earl at the head of the colonial department would do everything in his power to inquire into the matter, and procure redress of the whole of the grievances when laid before him. Lord MOUNTCASHELL had looked into the papers on this subject, and he found it officially stated that some of the officers had paid attention to some of the Irish orphan girls on board, and that the crew—and this was important—had unrestrained intercourse with the young girls; and in the face of that statement he found that it was laid down that it was the surgeon's duty to prevent such intercourse. He (Lord Mountcashel) found that one and a half per cent. of the number of emigrants on board died, and that was a most serious amount of mor tality—mortality, bej it remembered, which was caused by bad food, bad water, and bad treatment. It appeared that the unhappy passengers were subjected to the greatest intimidation, that those who ventured to re. monstrate were taken below and placed under the greatest control. He found that one of the emigrants, who was going out to the colony with a number of moulds of casts, which were of the greatest value to him, had all his moulds smashed to pieces because he ventured to speak out; and that another passenger who had spoken out had the cords taken off his boxes, and his property thrown about the vessel. He (Lord Mountcashel) had much information on this subject, but he would at present refrain from entering further into details. He, however, would take that op portunity of assuring the Noble Earl that the matter must not rest here. He hoped and trusted that the Noble Earl would take steps to inquire into those griev ances, and procure a just redress of them. Earl GREY had no objection to grant the returns asked for by the Noble Earl, but a delay of twelve months would elapse before they could be laid on the table of their Lordships' House, as reference must be made to the colonies. The returns were accordingly agreed to. MR. NASH'S CASE. Lord BEAUMONT said he had received communi cations from Mr. Nash, who was summoned to be in at tendance at the bar of their Lordships' House on Mon day, and in those he stated that certain papers which had been laid on the table of their Lordships' House had reference to documents and papers in 1846. He (Lord Beaumont) thought it right to make this statement, lest the charges of forgery might go forth against Mr. Nash respecting those papers (in matters connected with rail ways) and do him injury, previous to the time when he may be heard in his own thfence before their Lordships' House. Their Lordships then adjourned. MOUSE OF COMMONS, March 15. The SPEAKER took the Chair at a Quarter to Four o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Sir GORE BOOTH took th© oaths and his seat for Sligo THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time and passed:—Bristol Waterworks Act Amendment Bill; Suffolk and General Country Amicable Insurance Office Bill. PRIVATE BUSINESS. Mr: WILSON PATTEN moved that it be an instruc tion to the Committee of Selection, that they have power to appoint the meeting of the Committee on the WatEr ford and Limerick Railway Bill, specially reported upon by the Committee, for Tuesday next, if they so think fit.—Agreed Sir GEORGE PECHELL moved that the petition of certAiu inhabitants of the town of Brighton, deposited in the Plivat.) Bill Office, upon the 14th day of February last, in layour of the Brighton Improvement, Purchase of Royal Pavilion and Grounds, and Amendment of existing Act Bill, be referred to a Committee on the Bill. —Agreed to. PETITIONS. Several petitions were presented against Sunday labour n the Post-office. Mr FERGUSON presented a petition against the Marriage Bill. Mr. PACKE presented a petition praying for the extension of the jurisdiction of County Courts. Mr. CAYLEY presented a similar petition from Derby. Mr. A. lIASTIE presented a petition from Glasgow, against the Marriage Bill. Mr. ELLIS presented a petition to the same effect from a place] in Scotland ; also a petition praying for the abolition of all taxes on knowledge. Mr. C. LUSHINGTON presented a petition from the Northern Star-office praying for the abolition of taxes on knowledge. An HON. MEMBER presented a petition from Rye against any alteration in the law relating to the Mer chant Seamen's Fund. Mr. BERKELEY presented a petition from the Chel tenham:Examiner-office, praying for the abolition of taxes knowledge. _ _ _ Mr. B:SMITH presented six petitions from places in Scotland, praying that a solemn affirmation might be sub stituted in lieu of an oath. Mr. SPOONER moved that the petitions from Bir mingham for remuneration to medical men for their ser vices in cases cf railway accidents presented yesterday be printed. Mr. THORNELY said the petitions bad been be fore the Committee of Public Petitions. who had ordered them to be printed; they had accordingly been sent to the printer's, and no doubt they would be in the hands of Hon. Members on Monday. Mr. SPOONER was particularly anxious to have them printed with the votes, as they contained important state ments, which ought to meet the eye of Hon. Members. If they were printed with other papers, there was little chance of their ever being opened. Mr. THORNELY said he should still resist the motion. Mr. SPOONER would not put the House to the trouble of dividing, and the motion was withdrawn with leave. Mr. FOX MAULE presented several petitions from places in Scotland against the Marriage Bill. Lord ASHLEY presented a large number of petitions praying for the abolition of the relay system in factories. CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD RAILWAY. An HoN. MEMBER gave notice that, on Tuesday next, he should move for copies of all correspondence whieh had taken place between the Admiralty, the Treasury, and the Chester and Holyhead, or any other company ou the subject of carrying the mails between Holyhead and Dublin, with the view of founding a motion upon it, for the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the facili ties that are afforded to the public by any arrangements the Admiralty had entered into for carrying the mails between Holyhead and Kingston. IRISH POOR-LAW. Mr. HENRY HERBERT moved for copies of so much of the correspondence of the Poor-law Commis sioners of Ireland with the boards of guardians, during the last six months, as relates to the question of giving or withholding out-door relief : detailed account of the expenses which have been incurred by the several boards of guardians in providing increased work house accommodation: copies: of forty-eight general orders issued by the Commissioners for administer ing the Laws for Relief of the Poor in Ireland, under the Act 1 and 2 Vic., c. 56; nominal return of the poor law unions in Ireland, where the affairs have been ad ministered by paid guardians, and stating the periods of such administration; and, return of the amount of the debts, claims, and liabilities, exclusive of those owing to the Government, against those unions when the ad ministration by paid guardians commenced and termi nated.—Agreed to. INSPECTORPULICE 1 COWARD. to ask the Right Sir H. WILLOUGHBY W Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State or the Home been drawn to Department, whether his intention h a d the conduct of police inspector Coward, as it appeared in evidence in a late criminal proceeding at the Central Criminal Court? Sir GEORGE GREY replied that an inquiry had already been instituted into the conduct of the officer, and although he had certainly been guilty of indis cretion, it appeared now in a wry different light to what it did a short time ago. KILRUSH UNION. Mr. POULETT SCROPE asked the First Lord of the Treatiury whether any measure was in contemplation by the Government to check the wholesale evictions and house-levelling which is still in progress in the Kilrush and other Irish unions, and which threaten to depopu late those districts? Lord JOHN RUSSELL said there was measure on the subject of evictions in immediate contemplation by the Government. The question of evictions was one which lay at the root of the relationship between land lord and tenant. Mr. A. STAFFORD took occasion to protest against any inference being drawn from the anonymous report which had been quoted by the Hon. Member for Stroud with reference to the state of the union of Kilrusb. Mr. P. SCROPE said his authority was Captain Ken nedy himself. ACCIDENTS ON RAILROADS. SROONEU gore notice that on ktodoy out be would ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he would be prepared to submit to the House some mea sure with reference to the liability of railway companies in cases of accident. IRISH REGISTRATION. attached to this tax as appeared to be now; but, taking everything into consideration, he could not at present come to any certain decision on the subject. He hoped the House would not expect him to do so, for as of late he had been prevented by his Mr. STAFFORD asked Lord J. Russell when he health from seeing any one, he had not had the opportu would be prepared to go on with the Irish Registra- nity of communicating with persons best acquainted with tion Bill? these subjects; but he would do so, and at present he Lord J. RUSSELL hoped to do so on Monday. would not state anything definite to the House DUTY ON BRICKS. on the subject. They had also a proposition Mr. CARDWELL presented a petition from the to reduce the malt-tax, amounting to 5,225,0001., Archasological Society in favour of a removal of the but it must be obvious that unless the House duty on bricks. were prepared to vote some substitute for the deficien- SAVINGS' BANKS. cies which would occur to some considerable amount, The Chancellor of the Exchequer entered the House there was no chance that any Chancellor of the Ex. shortly before five o'clock, and took his seat on the chequer could come down to the House prepared to make Treasury bench amidst loud cheers from all parts of the such a large reduction. The next proposal was one made House. The Right Honourable Gentleman appeared to by an Hon. Gentleman, whom he regretted not to see in have entirely recovered from his recent indisposition. his place to-night (Mr. Disraeli), to transfer so many Mr. REYNOLDS immediately afterwards rose to ask items of local taxation to the general fund. It was almost the Right Hon. Gentleman whether he intended to bring impossible to calculate the amount of that transfer, but it in a Bill on the subject of savings' banks. was probable that it would be two millions and a half. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said a He was quite sure that the object of the policy which Bill had been prepared on the subject, and he should had been adopted was to give the greatest advantage to take the earliest opportunity after Easter of bringing it the whole community, and the policy which had pro forward. veiled for the last ten years had been instrumental in Mr. REYNOLDS said, the answer of the Right Hon. the reduction of from 1,600,0001. to 2,000,000/. of annual Gentleman was highly satisfactory. taxation.—(flear, hear.) At least 1,000,000/ of the Mr. HERBERT wished to ask the Right Hon. Gen- taxation of the country had been permanently re tleman a question in connexion with this subject. Was moved in consequence of the charges which her it the intention of Government to introducelany measure, Majesty's present Government had removed.—(Hear.) or take any steps to reimburse the depositors who had They had indeed only followed out the plan which had lost their money by the failure of the Rochdale, Dublin, i been adopted by Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the and other savings' banks during the last two years. House, who were now in the Opposition.—(Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, said a He was the more anxious to name this, because he saw Committee had been appointed to inquire into the mat- in the opposition which had been offered there was an ter, and he should be wanting in respeot to that Com- evident attempt to delay, if not altogether to mittee if he answered the question. frustrate, the policy which had been pursued during LORD-LIEUTENANCY OF IRELAND. the lastawenty years. In 1825 Mr. Huskisson had first . Mr. REYNOLDS wished to ask the Noble Lord at propounded the principles upon which Government had the head of the Government whether it was the inten- i during late years acted. The object of that policy was tion of Ministers to introduce a Bill this session for the I to remove from the working classes those burdens which abolition of the office of Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland? they had heretofore borne, and to place them on those Lord. JOHN RUSSELL said a Bill was preparing on whose attained property would enable them well to bear the subject, and he should give due notice to the House them.—(Loud and continued cheering.) This was the before introducing it.—(A laugh.) reason why they had continually proposed the removal HUNGARIAN REFUGEES. of the restrictions on commerce, and the reduction of the Mr. B. OSBORNE said, as the Noble Lord the Secre- duties upon the necessaries of life and the articles which tary for Foreign Affairs was not in his place to answer are requisite for the comfort and well-being of the poor. a question he had given the Noble Lord notice of, ho ' Since the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir R. Peel) should take an early opportunity of calling the attention took office, in 1840, duties on coffee, sugar, and other of the House to the conduct of the Turkish Government articles, had been repealed to the extent of 7,600,000/. towards the Hungarian refugees. On sugar alone the duties repealed could not THE BUDGET. have been far short of a million. 8,650,0001. The House then went into Committee of Ways and might be clearly taken as th e amoun t of r e d uc ti on o f duties on articles of consumption, Taking the reduction Means, when on foreign sugar from 635. to 235., the average amaunt The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER imme- for three years alone would be 1,600,000/. Many other diately rose to bring forward the financial statement of indirect taxes bad been repealed, and the result was c the Government. He commenced by thanking the House considerable benefit to large masses of the people, for the kindness it had evinced towards him during his including every order and every class.—(Hear.) All these reductions had been approved of by a large ma illness, and then went on to ask the indulgence of the jority of the House. Now let him ask, did they believe House while he entered upon his budget, not only on . the state of things pointed out by Huskisson had come account of his own indisposition, but for any inaccu- to pass? Capital had accumulated, and every large racies that might creep into his statement.—(Hear, hear.) town in the kingdom had increased in size Some of his Hon. Friends who sat behind him, he said, and population, especially this large metropo lis. Since Huskisson lost his life on the first were always anxious for an early budget, but at this railway that was ever opened, 220,000,0004 had been early period of the session it was impossible to disclose invested in railways. Within the last five years as much it with that degree of accuracy which it was desir- as 140,000,0004 had been expended on these undertakings. able should always characterise a statement of this nature. He thought he need not refer to more conclusive proof It was the duty of a person in his capacity to state than that of the accumulated wealth and capital of the what he fairly believed would be the probable income superior classes of this great country, but could he con and expenditure of the year now ensuing. With regard gratulate them on a similar improvement in the condi to the expenditure, Honourable Gentlemen were aware tion of the working classes?—(Hear, hear.) Certainly that it was necessary that the vote for the ensuing it was creditable to the age that much more attention year should contemplate certain excesses which was paid now than formerly to the condition of the might have taken place in the navy, army, and working man.—(Cheers.) But let the House look at the ordnance expenditure. The accounts of the navy, report of the Factory Commission, the Mines Com army, and ordnance expenditure were not made up till mission, the Sanitary Commission, and, above all, the the end of April, therefore it was impo ss ibl e t o f orm a correct last report of the Commission appointed to inquire into estimate of what those excesses might b e . Th a t the operations of the law of settlement, and he was which was valuable for th e H ouse t o h ave was suc h afraid the House would have to confess that the condi an estimate as the person who made it might be tion of the poorer classes was still miserable in honestly and conscientiously able to say was really a the extreme.—(Cheers.) And yet, in the face true state of the case. Last year it was impossible to nuke anything like an accurate estimate, considering of all this, two hundred and fifty gentlemen in that House had recently been found voting for a pro the time of the year w h en it was ma d e . The circnm- position which would have had the effect of relieving stances of this year were more favourable to such a cor- property from taxation by imposing it on articles of rent estimate. Ho had now to lay before the House consumption and the raw materials of labour.—(Cheers.) two estimates of the income and expenditure ; one He believed, however, that bad those Hon. Gentlemen for the year ending sth April next, and another fully considered and weighed these facts, which he had for the year ending sth April, 1851. After referring i n just brought before them, they never could have voted touching terms to the death of a public servant this for any each proposal.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.") morning, by whom ho had been assisted in the business He thought the past policy of the House had been both of his office, fthe Right Hon. Gentleman proceeded to sound and just , and although they ha d been troubled say, when he laid before the House his estimate with a famine in Ireland, and a commercial crisis which of the income for the last year he estimated for a time had paralysed the trade of the the probable income at 52,262,0001. Up to January last country, he believed they were now approaching the receipts amounted to 52,874,000/.; the income up to that period when the whole country would reap the sth April next he could not . estimate at so arge a the full benefit of that policy.—(Hear, hear.) Ho con sum; but he believed, therefore, that the probable in- ceded to the Honourable Gentlemen who had voted for come of the financial year, ending the sth April that proposal that great pressure had been felt in the next would amount to 52,785,5001.; while the expendi- agricultural districts from the change, but from in ture he calculated at 50,533,35 11., which would give a formation which he had recently received, he was very surplus of income over expenditure of about two millions much mistaken indeed if thi s p ressure h a d no t now and a quarter. The House would be gratified to hear almost entirely pass e d awa y.—(C r i es o f " Oh , o h . ") that the actual expenditure in the last 3 ear had been He confessed he thought that the complaints which were less than the estimates by about 1,625,0001., which in- made throughout the country were a little premature. eluded about 400,0001. put to the account of naval He must admit, however, that the price of corn had excess, and he hoped that this would be taken as been lower than he anticipated it would be.--(" Hear, a proof that in every possible way consistent hear," from the Protectionists.) But at the same time with the public service attention had been paid to he thought it pretty clear that the present prices could economy. With regard to the estimates of this year, he hardly be permanent, or attributed to the operation was afraid that there was not much encouragement for of free trade. He saw only yesterday a report which quite so favourable a picture. In the first place, he had been presented to the President of the French Re thought they must look for a considerable filling public from the Council of Agriculture, Commerce, and off in the Customs, which might be ascribed to Manufactures in France, in which they spoke of the dis several causes, among others to the reduction upon tressed state of agriculture in that country, and the duty in sugar which had taken place in June last. where, too, agriculture was protected, in language Now, the decrease in the receipts upon foreign sugar he stronger than any that had been used in the found from the returns which were made up to sth of most depressed districts in England. It was obvious March this year, and up to the 12th of March last year, that the low prices of corn in that country could not be was not less than 6 . 26,0001.—(Hear, hear.) He men- attributed to any importation from foreign countries.— tioned this in order to show that the expectations of (Hear, hear.) He believed that the solution was simply those who anticipated very large reductions in the that there had been an unusually abundant harvest. Customs duties could not be realised.— The exportation we had received to any (Hear, hear.) Whatever increase had occurred very great extent was hardly beyond what he had been found to arise from the import of colonial pro- had anticipated from those countries which were duce.—(Hear, hear.) All the increase had been from not usually exporting countries. Ho found, for instance, our own colonies. In Dutch Guiana they were COOl- in France, the average price of wheat for eight years plaining that they could find no market for their pro- ending 1845, was 48s. Id.; in Belgium, daring the seven duce in consequence of the competition of the British col°• years ending 1845, it was 495. odd; and in Amsterdam, vies, and there, accordingly, the greatest distress prevailed. during the six years ending 1845, it was 48s. 10d. lie Ile was desirous of stating this in order to add, further, had shown that in those three neighbouring countries, f the fact that erroneous impressions prevailed in the from which we derived so large a supply, the average public mind respecting the sources of our prosperity.— Price .of grain was under 84s. per quarter. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") But on other topics he could He was fully convinced that the result of the late com speak with more confid e nce. I n 1848-9 th e i m p or t s - mercial alteration had had the effect of inciting those engaged in agriculture to further exertions, and he felt tion of brandy had been i 77,0001., giving an accession to the revenue of 43,3001. This was partly owing fall reliance in the energy and spirit of the British to the state of the commerce of the country, farmer that he would surmount all his dtffi and partly to the alarm which prevailed respecting culties, although he was aware that many in cholera.—(llear, hear.) The other increase was upon that endeavour might fail. Such was an inevit gin, rum, and the various produ c ts of the Briti s h co ls- able consequence of all great improvements, vies. During the last year the increase had been in the —to take a familiar instance, were not all who lived at duty reports 118,000 gallons, showing an increase of a distance from London aware of the great numbers that duty of 139,0001., and in 1849 the quantity was 559,786 had been deprived of their employment by the introduc gallons, showing an increase of 381,000 gallons, tion of railways, and been obliged to turn their endea- It was not likely the same quantity of gr a i n wou ld b e yours to some other means of getting a livelihood. But still imported next year. He estimated the probable receipt s no one thought of stopping the railroads on th a t accoun t. of the Customs for the ensuing year at 20 millions. On Great improvements went on, and though some persons all the other items, he was happy to say, there were the might be injured, no one thought of stopping the im strongest reasons for expecting an increase. The Excise provements. He had touched upon all th e p ro p osa l s produced last year 13,980,0001., and there were which had been made for the disposal of his surplus. circumstances to warrant his taking the receipts Now he came to the views of her Majesty's of the Excise for the ensuing year at 14,450,0001. ; Government on that point—he had thought it ,right another item, the Property-tax, he calculated to touch upon these proposals first, becaus e it was probe would amount to 6,860,0001.; the assessed t axes t o ble that they might be m a de in the House, and he thought 4,320,000/.; the income tax, 5,010,000/.; the Post- e flic e , it was as well that the House should be aware of the 820,000/. ; Crown lands, 160,000/. ; miscellaneous, views of her Majesty's Government on all of them pre -260,0004; old stores, 410,000/4 making altogether viously. The surplus amounted, as he had a l rea dy a probable income of 52,285,000/. On the other stated, to 1,500,000/. Looking back at what side of the account there were these items had taken plac e durin g late years, the chief desire —lnterest on funded debt, 27,700,000/4 interest on of her Majesty's Government, was to effect some reduc- Exchequer-bills, 405,000/., making the charge for debt tion in the debt—and the manner in which that was to 28,105,000/. The other charges on the Consolidated be done would require great and careful consideration. Fund of 2,500,0004, 5,849,4234, and 764,2364, would If Hon. Gentlemen would only refer to th e mon e y w hi c h make a total of these latter items of 1,613,1551. had been borrowed of late years, they.would immedi- Tee army estimates at present on the table amounted to ately perceive the stringency of the motive by which he 6,109,347/., the militia estimates were 110,0001., and was actuated.—(Hear, hear.) I n 1833-34 the sum of the commissariat department 500,0001, making a total 3,000,0001. had been borrowed ; in 1841 th e in the army estimates of 6,629,347/. The ordnance sum of 5,000,000/. had been borrowed ; an d i n estimates were 2,434,4171., and the army and navy esti- 1847, when the House refused to accede to mates together were 15,677,4521, and these items his motion for the permanent increa se o f th e added to the other he had mentioned made income-tax, he bad been compelled to go out of doors an expenditure of 50,612,1821. In accordance, however, and borrow the sum of 8 , 000 , 000 /. Since then the sum with the general wish of the House, expressed last year, of 2 , 000 , 000 /. had b een borrowed . s o that during the he proposed to increase the vote for the New Houses of years that had ensued since the reduction of the war Parliament, while, if the Bill of his Right taxation , no les s a sum than 38,000,000/. h ad been added Honourable Friend the President of the Board to our national debt. Against this , however, there was an offset of 11,000,000/, which had been paid, thus s h ow i ng of Trade passed, it would impose an additional charge of 30,0004 on the that the permanent increase of the debt was 27,000,0001. There would also be a further charge this year for the since the attempt had been concluded for the reduction Consolidated Fund.—(Hear.) of the impositions occasioned by the war.--(Hear, h ear .) Arctic expedition, and he proposed, therefore, to take a margin of 150,000/,, making the probable expenditure To remedy this evil the only plan that could be adopt e d 50,763,5821. leaving a surplus of 1,521,4101., but taking was the reduction of the debt, and to pay off a portion off a further margin, the total surplus of receipts over of the obligations which had been incurred during the l as t expenditure might be written down at 1,500,0004 ten years. The House had met his proposal for a con- Now that balance-sheet of January was made known to tinuance of the income-tax during the ensuing ten years the public just after the meeting of Parliament, both in with a decided negative.—(Hear, bear.) He had made and out of the House; and there were persons who had that proposition in the hope of clearing the debt.— been very anxious to save him the slightest trouble in (Hear, hear.) If they could not prepare for this in disposing of that surplus.—(Laughter.) Hardly was the a time of profound peace, when could they balance-sheet out when his Noble Friend (Lord John do it? What would they think of any Russell) received a large dequtation interested in the re - private person who was obliged to get into debt in a duction of tea. They stated a great advantage would disastrous period, and yet refused to provide for the result to the consumers of tea in this country from the obligations which he had incurred when more reduction of the duty in the increase of our trade with prosperous times came round.—(Hear, and cheers.) China. He was not disposed to say that there was not In the course of the present year a most some force in those representations, and perhaps the best come before the Hou se , important question would policy,tas a general rule, was to reduce duties to such an i viz., the removal of then c tame-tax, an d without entering into the opinions of . parties on the amount:as not to interfere with the consumption of the articles on which they were imposed.—(Hear.) But in subject he would simply say that it was obvious order to attain that end it was indispensably that this tax must be continual if any fur. necessary that the House would not think it ther reductions were made in our faze right to dispose of the small sur pl us o f l a st year tion. The Honourable Member for I 3 uckinghamshire in the reduction o f th e d u ty on t ea. Th e had spoken of the advantages which wou l d be derived amount received from the duty on tea last year was by maintaining a high state of credit by the public 5,471,000/. The duty on tea was now 2s. 2id. p er lb. keeping an abundant available security. H prod e (the Chan- The duty on the same import at Is. wou ld on l y uce cellor of the Exchequer) thought the income-tax was , 2 500 , 000/ ., leaving, therefore, a first loss of a necessary element in maintaining that cred i t. A Mem no less than 3,000,0001. To recover the rev,- her for a large county in Ireland had stated that the cre nue up to 3 , 000 , 0001. enabled gentlemen would require: an increase dit produced by the income-tax had of consumption to the extent of 10,000,0001b5. in Ireland to relieve their estates from encumbrances. Taking it in its most favourable light, there would be lt was desirable, nevertheless, that some relief a loss of 2,500,000/. The next proposition he received I should be given to the landed interest, and was a deputation asking fur a reduction of the duty on II the first measure he should propose was one windows, bricks, and soap. The duty on these articles i which he hoped would be of some benefit to last year amounted in the aggregate to 3,275,000 e I the occupier and small holders of land. None but a large They had also a proposition to repeal the duty on p aper reduction of rents could benefit the occupier. The altered to the amount of 745,0001., the advertisement duty o f state of the law, however, re quired that there should be 157,000/., and the certificate duty, which amounted to somo reduction, and when ho remembered the cheapness 170,000/. He was quite aware that very strong argu- that the present policy was producing he thought ments might he adduced in, favour of the repeal of that reduction ought to be readily made. these duties ; but he mu st say that , looking at the Comparing the last year with the present, he believed interests of the great body of the working classes employment in the agricultural districts was o fthe country, these were not duties which had the first ' now greater than it was in the corresponding claim. A proposition had been made also for the reduc- period of last year; and he believed by an increased tion of the duties on timber used in ship building. He improvement in the cultivation of the soil the condition certainly had not been prepared to find so much Value of the labourer:would ,be still further inaprovekand the welfare of the community at large advanced. This could only be attained by an outlay of capital on the part of the landlord s and he was anxious that no obstacle should be thrown in the way of his doing that. Now the stamp. duty on a 501. sale of property was 121 per cent.; on 1001. 51 per cent.; on 3001.1 21 per: cent.; on 5001., 1/. 14s. 3d. per cent.; and above that sum 1/, per cent. It was obvious, therefore, that in the case of small owners, rhey were not in an eqUal posi tion with their richer neighbours.—(Hear, hear.) It was but fair to place them on an equality with other classes, by'allowing . them to sell or borrow without having those obstacles thrown in their way. Hon. Mem bers no doubt remembered that when proposals of this kind were made to extend to another portion of the United Kingdom, the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire said they ought a to be applied to the whole country as well as to Ireland. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) con curred in that view, and the first proposal he should make would be, a considerable reduction in the duties levied in the transfer of property up to the amount of 1,0001 What he proposed to do was, he thought, more just than if an acreable per-centage were proposed ; and he intended also that the same rule should apply to bonds and mortgages.—(Hear.) The reduction was to com mence with all sums under 1,0001., and be proportionately increased on any sum above that, because it would be most unjust that the same duty should be charged on the higher sums. He therefore proposed to make it, as fir as practicable, an ad valorem duty, and in every respect as uniform as possible. Another thing to which he attached the utmost importance was the tenure of land and the granting of lenses. In cases, also, when the landlord was not disposed to lay out his own capital, and that the tenant was prepared to do so on getting a lease, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was pre pared to reduce the stamp duty on leases, which at pre sent was very unjust and unequal. According to the scale now existing, a loan for any sum less than 20/ was liable to 11. duty, and what he proposed to do was, that for a sum not exceeding 251. a duty of 2s. 6d. should be charged, and so on up to 1,0001., which would be at the rate of 1 per cent. Then as to agricultural labourers, he had already stated that he was anxious, as tar as in him lay, to promote any object which would give them em ployment, by enabling the owners of land to raise money for the improvement of their properties; but he was. above all, anxious to improve the comforts and dwellings in which they resided.—(Cheers.) On that sub ject he would refer again to the document which ema nated from the Lords' Committee as to the effect of the present law on the condition and morals of the poor in their habitations. For his own part, he never was more struck with anything than in reading this evidence on that subject ; and having paid some attention to the subject himself, it was impossible, he would say, under the present system, to procure those comfortable cottages for the labouring classes which all would desire. In the first place, no remunerative interest could be expected by those who did so, and, under the present circum stances, the Government thought it right th a t no legis lative obstacle should, at any rate, be imposed on those who might think of doing so. As far as regarded a mo tion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose, pro posed some time since, relative to a drawback on the duties on bricks, he, for one, had in all cases a great ob jection to drawbacks ; but, independently of that objec tion, he believed that it was impossible that the proposal of his Hon. Friend could be carried into effect. Seeing, however, that the evil was not confined to the cottages of the poor, but that the health of towns and cities was deeply affected, he was prepared to concede the total repeal of the duty on bricks.—(Cheers.) He found that that subject had also occupied the attention of the Committee of the House of Lords, to whose report he had already adverted, when they stated that not only would such a repeal tend to the improvement of real property in towns, and their immediate vicinity, but add considerably to the comfort of the poorer classes. In dependently of promoting the comforts of the poor, which he considered of paramount importance, it was also one of no less interest to the agriculturists them selves. In portions of the country where soil was of such a nature as to prevent the manufacture of bricks, a repeal of the duty would be of the greatest advantage, in promoting and improving agriculture. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) knew not if the lion. Member for West Surrey was an advocate for the in crease of building on existing firms, but, for his own part, he knew of no means better calculated to effect such an object than else abolition of the duty on bricks. Toe amount received from duty on stamps was a little under 300,0001., on bricks 450,0001., making in all a reduction in taxation of 750,0004 or little less than half the sum of the estimate as the surplus on hand. Ho was not aware when he came to add the sum which he intended to apply to the reduction of the national debt, to that which he now proposed, as a re duction on taxation, that he should, after doing both, have a large sum on hand; still he thought it was only 'just and fair, that one-half should be so applied for the reduction of the debt, and the other to relieve in some measure the burdens of the people. He should also ob serve, that Hon. Gentlemen must not suppose that that was the only relief from taxation which would take place in the course of the year, because, by the operation of the Sugar Act of 1846, duties on colonial and foreign sugar would be remitted after July next, to the amount of 350,000/. The actual relief, therefore, given to the people in the course of the year, would amount to 1,100,000/. (Cheers.) He had another measure to propose, which he believed was calculated to promote objects of a perma nent importance, and that was the outlay of capital for the improvement of land. For his own part, he believed that it was not simply an agricultural, but a national object, for it could answer no purpose that any great interest in that country should be depressed.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") It was. of essential im portance that the food of this country should be procured at home, and not abroad—(Loud cheers from the Protec tionists)—and he was on that account induced to be believe that a judicious outlay of capital, combined with skill, enterprise, aud industry, would not only bo bene ficial to the agricultural interests, but to the country at large.—(Cheers.) Now the proposal he was about to make was, to do that which was done in 1846, that is, to make further advances for the purpose of draining and the better cultivation of land.—(Load cries of Hear.") He had the most satisfactory accounts from Ireland and elsewhere of the advantages already de rived, not only in the employment of labour, but in a profitable return for the outlay in the cultivation of land. He was of opinion that in this respect the advances would not be confined to those made by the Government for that purpose; he thought that private companies, when they discovered what was doing, would also come orward and advance loans, for he well recollected that twelve years ago, when they proposed raising a loan to cultivate sugar in the Mauritius, this matter was after some time taken up by the merchants themselves, and car ried on by them. The last advance made to England and Scotland was two millions, and a gentlemen on the other side of the Tweed evinced their readiness, by a priority of applications, to avail themselves of the offer, by ac cepting out of the two millions, 1,600,000/.—(Loud laughter from all parts of the House.) The sum appro priated to England was 372,0001, which, with a certain sum reserved for a contingency, made up the entire; fur ther applications were made for an additional 500,0001.; but he did not think himself called on to comply with them. He proposed, then, to advance an additional sum of two millions, and was prepared to reserve to England the opportunity of making itself square for its former loss—(A laugh)—though ho would not refuse Scotland its fair proportion. With regard to Ireland, he pro posed making an additional advance of a million. That country had already received, in 1847, a million and a half; in 1849, 300,0001, making in all 1,800,000/. He proposed to add to that sum 200,0004 which would make the total advance two millions, and that put it on a footing with England. Tbat he proposed to be ex pended in arterial drainage, on which he found there had already been spent 858,0004 bat in consequence of the works having been stopped—a circumstance which produced great injury by promoting fevers and other disorders, by the effect of open drains and incom plete drainage—he now proposed they should be com pleted, and for that purpose 800,000/, would be advanced. Ireland would thus receive for improvements in land alone 1,400,000/. He said he would mention an addi tional reason why he should keep a surplus in his hand, and that was that he should be enabled to meet those advances without making any addition to the public debt. He himself believed that the system of making advances from the public fund was not one which ought to be of permanent continuance—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—and he hoped that whoever occupied the situa tion he had then the honour to fill would be in a position to put a stop to there, the result of which would be that, for some years, the amount of these advances paid in would accumulate a considerable sum, which could be beneficially employed in reducing their national debt.— (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") These were the pro posals be had the honour to make to the House. On stamps and bricks he had relieved the people to the amount of nearly half the sum he pos sessed as a surplus; in addition to that there would be a reduction in July next of 350,000/. on sugar, and in consequence of the existing state of things, he was prepared to make an advance of three millions, two to England and Scotland, and one to Ireland, for the better cultivation and improvement of land, He would then have in his hand 750,0001., which he would either apply to the reduction of the national debt or any con tingencies which may arise. Of that sum he intended to apply another sum of 250,000/. for the extinction of a debt which ha found had existed from the time of the union with Scotland, as a charge on the public revenue of ten thousand a year, called an ",Equivalent Fund." It was thought much better to put an end to that charge at once, by the payment of the 250,0001. he had men tioned, and after doing so he should still have a surplus of 500,000/., which he hoped the House would allow him to retain for contingencies. Sir JAMES GRAHAM asked who received that money in Scotland? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that it was paid to the " Equivalent Company," who were principally members of the Bank of Scotland. He did not know if he could succeed in satisfying the agricultural community with the advantages thus afforded them; but all he should say was, that while he and the Go vernment with which he had the honour to be connected, felt themselves bound to resist their claims in look ing for the restoration of measures which would have the effect of taxing the community at large, they would be always ready, as far as relief could be afforded, to do so on all occasions, believing, as they did, that a proper outlay of capital on the land would have the effect of raising that interest to prosperity as it would of provid ing food for their increasing millions, which was so in dispensably necessary. It would require skill and energy on the part of the farmers, and a great outlay of capital by the owners of the soil, and they were ready to assist them by every means in their power. These measures, ho believed, would not only benefit the agri culturists, but advance the interests of all classes in that great country. He did, however, hope that the House would support him in maintaining the surplus he had in hand, for he could not say bow strongly hefelt the ns vanity of such a course, and that was no new opinion of his, for he bad before stated, that lass .; than half a million ought never to be taken from the r eserve fund of a Chancellor of the Exchequer. Since lae , had had the honour of filling his present situation, tha t was the first time be was possessed of a surplus; on the ct mtrary, he had on several occasions been obliged to born , and he did not feel he would be acting the part of an 1 tones t man, if he did not urge on the House the necessit . 7 of repaying, as soon as possible, the money which had b een so borrowed. —(Cheers.) Such a course was essent Lto the main tenance of public credit, and the secant: r of all property WAS bound up with the fulfilment of the i r engagements. —(Hear, hear.) He was far from suppc sing that those who callei still further for a reduction e f taxation had the slightest intention of injuring the ni ttional credit; but if they were to borrow money, anti at the same time, reduce taxation, there never weak 1 be an end to their increasing liabilities. The Right 11.4 mi. Gentleman having again expressed his anxiety that no t Lew demand far a reduction of taxation for the present wo u Id be enforced, concluded by moving that a sum of 9,201 )„000l be raised in Exchequer-bills. Mr. HUMS said the very gratifying n twiner in which so small a reduction of taxation to the cc c ntry had been received ought to be a lesson to those wl had hitherto been the great cause of its increase. a believed the relief it was proposed to give was a very p .oper relief as far as it went, but what he objected to w: as, that in the spe,. , ch they had just heard the Right Het a. Gentleman had merely confined himself to a statement of the surplus and the way in which he proposed to api sly it, instead of making a general statement of the to ration of the country, and giving his reasons why • larger reduc tions could not have been effected.— (Hear, hear.) A budget should show what the whole to ,xation of the country was, and the reason the expend i turn was pro posed to be made. He wanted to kno e r whether the country was to expect any further ret h action or not. So far as the reduction of the duty on s a ,nips was con cerned, ho believed it would be very beneficial, as would the abolition of the duty on bricks, but be must say he had very great doubts a s to the pro priety of making any further advances to the land lords either in Great Britain or Irelar al. Such ad vances were opposed to all sound princi F le, and never should be granted unless there was a str ang necessity shown. Money was plentiful in other (pa: trters at pre sent, and therefore that necessity did n.c t exist. He considered the advances already made to t he landlords an ample compensation fur any loss they might have sustained. He hoped the House would nal t support the measure, as he considered the proposal to keep such a surplus to meet these advances was of a most doubt- ful character. The influence upon the a anitary con dition of the people of the window-i ax was so important that it ought to be abolished, e ven if it left a small loss on the annual income, en l upon the supposition that no farther reduction could be effected. But he believed that he mat I show how a saving of ten millions could be made. They had often been told that they had a very small, amount left upon which any reduction could be effecte I; but by a return he had moved for, of the half-pay a nd effective service of the army, navy, and ordnanco for the last twenty-eight years, be found that the ref a :nue in 1848 was, in round numbers, 57,000,0001.; the ez q senditure for the civil and military establishments was l 0,427,0001.; thus leaving an amount of 27,000,0001. c a ly that they could not deal with. He complained of the • extravagant cost of our establishments. In the years 1832-3-4-5, the cost of the whole establishments and 3 ivil list did not exceed 21,000.0001.; last year it was. upwards of 30,000,000/. What reason was there for th eit not going back to that lower standard? The Gove r nment were bound to show good reasons for maintaining t 1 se increased establishments. Nu doubt if they were to I , ecome like l)on Quixote, running round the world as m ediators, as we had done for many years past, and meth dling with everybody's business but our own, he did not know where the expense of our civil and military establish ments was to end. The House would act with great indifference to the interests of the c 'ountry, if they did not press for greater reductions, it i order to compel the diminution of our establishment s. Unless they refused to grant taxation, the Governs tent of the day, he did not care what party they belonget I to, would never make any reductions in these estta olishments. They had heard from the Right Hon. Baron et of many reductions within the last three years. But he gave the Government no credit for that. If the l louse had granted a five per cent, income-tax, and al lowed of a continued large expenditure, these reduction a would not have been made. By refusing that tax, the iovcrnment had been forced to make reductions amounti r .g to nearly four millions, and he said they should, there fore, in the same way force further reductions. He was prepared to show the way in which the window tax, mi t.t tax, and the tax on soap, could be all abolished wit Jaout either danger to the public credit, or to the effi& .4 tncy of the public establishments. He had no wish to deta i n the House, but he must complain that Ministers had nit a le no state ment of the nature and necessity of our pres a at expendi ture. The House, which professed to be the ; guardian of the public purse, neglected its duty; and e the state ment that night Ministers had omitted, for ti > e first time, the usual statement that they had brought t down the public establishment to the lowest point con s istent with public efficiency. Upon what principle coo .1 d the high salaries paid to judges, and other high office z a be justi fied ? He did not mean to enter into det: c Is, but for the reasons he had given, the House should t tot be con tented with the budget they had heard, and o t ight to de mand further reductions. He believed the Hl", use should sweep off one tax after another, and thus c ompel the Government to reduce establishments. If t hey left a surplus in the hand of any Government, who: .her Tory, Whig, or Radical, they would expend ii. —(Hear.) He thought the taxes on knowledge wore pro ductive of greater evils than a few millions of debt, at i 1 the Go vernment ought to be compelled by the Hou s e to carry out a fiscal system of removing every imp( diment to education and the diffusion of knowledge a mong the people. Ile should not then move any mo t. on on the question, but he felt it to be his duty to < express the dissatisfaction he felt at the nature of the stat e ment they had just heard. Mr. FRE WEN said, he must express great i lisappoint ment at the speech of the Right Hon. Baron • because after the numerous deputations that lea I waited upon him and the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russ ell) it was fully expected that a reduction would have bee r , proposed in the hop duty. It was the only tax that wa s imposed upon produce grown out of doors, and the ill ity varied so much in proportion to thejvaried produce oft he crop— which was of the most precarious nature—tha t in some years the people in that part of the country in which they were grown were thrown into bankruptcy from one end to the other. Some of the owners of hop farms had had one half of them thrown upon their hands. This was in a great measure the operation of the ex else duty. He thought that when the Right Hon. Baron at (Sir R. Peel) reduced the large duty upon foreign hop:., the ex cise duty should at the same time have been taken off. He believed that the retention of the tax w o uld cause universal dissatisfaction in the whole Weald o f Kent and in his own district (East Sussex). The amoux It paid for labour alone was from 125,0001. to 180,0001. a year, and looking to the large expenditure on this her,tl alone, it was too bad to have a direct tax of no less the.r 118,0001. a year thrown upon them. That was the amount of duty they had to pay last year, or rather a ith which they were charged, for some of it was not yet. paid. He felt bound to state to the Committee that c; aneral dis content would be produced in the part of line country with which he was connected by the omissiixn of which he complained. Mr. HODGES had also to express his doeep disap pointment that the Chancellor of the Exchoquer, after all that had transpired, should have thought It his duty to retain so obnoxious a tax, and one that pressed so heavily upon his constituents as the hop duty . .. He was, however, mistaken in supposing that these claims could be neglected with impunity. If the Right Honourable Gentleman continued to act in this spirit, it would be the duty of those who represented the hop-Brewing dis tricts, certainly he would consider it to be his own duty, to support every motion that might be made for reduc tion, in order that the Chancellor of the Exchequer might at last find a surplus out of which he could afford to abolish the hop duty. From the frequent interviews that had taken place between the representatives of the hop growers and the Government, they had every rea• son to expect, that in the statement which Ead just been made, a reduction of that duty would have been included; and he must concur in the feeling of disappointment which had been expressed by the Honourable Member for East Sussex. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he did not mean to enter into any discussion upon general taxation, but merely to ask for a solution of two points which seemed to him to require a little further explanation. It had been as sumed that the surplus would be two millions. It was now reduced to a million and a half, and very properly so, for the reasons that had been given. His only doubt was, whether even that sum was not too large, because he found in the charge on the national debt for the year ending 1850, an addition of 13,000/ over the charges for the year ending 1849. Now, 13,0001. would represent a capital of 4,000,0001. borrowed at 3 per cent., and he could not see how, under the circumstances, the surplus could be a million and a half. The proposal to pay 250,0001. for the extinction of the equivalent fond ap peared to him to be a system of mere hocus poeus with public accounts, and ho doubted very much the propriety of lending money to the landlords of any country, while we were, if not adding, at least not cutting down our own debts. Mr. COWAN said he regretted to learn that it was the intention of the Government t.) postpone until after Easter the introduction of the Bill to regulate savings' banks. Much anxiety existed upon the subject in Scot laud, and he should very much wish that the intentions of the Government with respect to it might be stated before Easter. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the subject could not be brought forward before Easter, but that it should be brought forward as soon as possible afterwards. Sir DE LACY EV ANS expressed a wish that some of the smaller receipt stamp duties had been remitted, particularly the threepenny stamp, which were felt as a great burden by many of the small traders thr oug h out the kingdom. Tho Marquis of GRANBY said, that although he had not great hope of expecting from her Majesty's Govern ment measures of a remedial nature for the agricultural classes, still he was glad to find that the Right lion. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had pro fited by his experience of last year, and had introduced his statement earlier in the session. There were, un doubtedly, great clamours in the country for a reduc ti,n of taxation, but he thought the maintenance of the public credit was a prior and more weighty con sideration.—(Hear.) Ile found that petitions had been presented to the Right Hon. Gentleman for the reduc tion of the duties on tea, bricks, soap, malt, windows—in short, on all descriptions of articles. It was clear, how ever, from the recent political history of the country, that reduced taxation had not benefitted the lower classes to the extent that was promised for it, or ex j‘ected. The Right Floe. Gritleurni stated, that sine° 1836 there bad been no less than eight millions of taxes I reduced. He also repeated what Dlr. liuskissen said in 1830, that the great capitalists of the country were making wealth, whilst the poorer and middling clime_ of society w ere no t progress i ng. H e (th e Marquis of Granby) had hop ed all along, that if that remission of taxation was still going on it might have averted the state of things which Mr. Huskisson described. Look ing, however, at the reports of the Poor-law Commis' shiners, of the mining districts, and the other usual sources of information, he was led to the conclusion that the middling classes of society were not better off, not withstanding the re d uce d taxat i on i mpose d upon them. If he was told to look at the increase of the population, and the increase of capital, he would answer, that there, might be an increase of the population, and an increase of ca pital, but it was not an increase of either. With refer ence to the labouring classes of the country, the Right Hon. Gentleman admitted that there was great distress in the agricultural population, and that admission went some way towards remedying it.—(Hear, hear.) As to what he said about the importation of corn not affect ing its price, he would ask him whether he believed that ten millions of quarters of corn could be imported with' out having a sensible effect on its price? It was impos siblet to suppose that that co u ld b e th e case . Then loos at the increase of taxation on the industrious class': Let them take the case of the farmer, and consider that taxes, which he could formerly pay with six quarters 01 corn he could not now pay without nine quarters. Th e distress which would n ecessar ily ensue i n t h e struggi,l which this ne w l eg i s l a ti on b roug h t, h a d b ee n Nve" prophesied by the Ri g h t H on . B aronet w h o wa s the author of it, and he presumed that the remission of stamP duties on transfers of land, which the Government re' posed, was intended m os t probably for this benefit. An other measure was the repeal of the duty on bricks, which he thought would prove of ver y great b ene fit to the . lower classes. In that p o i nt o f v i ew h e thought it a fair measure of justice, though, from a variety of circumstances, it could no t f a il o f opera ti n g with k great inequality. As a measure f or t h e re li e f of 11 landed interest, how ever , i t was utter l y wort hl ess . with regard to the measure for advancing 2,000,0001. to sag . land and Scotland, and 1,000,0001. to Ireland, for drstn age and improvement c f land, he agreed in opinion silt' the Hon. Member fur M on t rose , t h at w h en mon ey w, as to be had at the rate cf per cent., that measure 50 was one which could not prove of great benefit to the landowners. Upon the whole, however, rejoicing at t he altered tone of the speech of hi s Ri g h t H on . F r i e nd 0 ,1 Chancellor of the Exchequer, remem b er i ng th a t he sai d he was anxious because he saw the advantage of grows ing our corn in our own country, as far as that was per: sible, of not trusting to foreign supplies for that Brno' —rejoicing at that favourable change in his opinion' seeing that he acknowl e d ge d t h at somet hi ng might hie done to mitigate the di s t ress t h at preva il e d i n the agr ien tural districts—lamenting at the same time that he h as not done more in the way of relieving them from bur dens which would have been an immense relief to the, l l: he was still pleased to that extent with the views which he had expressed on the stsbjeet. But firmly believing that no mere reduction of ta xa ti on w hi c h h e cou ld ogee could compensate for the 91,000,000/. mentioned by the Right Hoe. Gentleman the Member for Wolverhempt e t on the first night of the session—believing that the only eff' ctual remedy was a return to that commercial syste m from which they had of l a t e y ears d eparte d , h e humbly to express his opinion, th at it W ou ld b e fol d necessary one day to revert t o it ; an d t h a t if they 0 not do so of their own accord th e c i rcums t ances of the country would compel them to return. Mr. EWART said he was glad that the Governme nt t had determined upon the ab o li t i on o f t h e b r i c k duty. was, in his opinion, a wise measure as well as a just e n because the d u ty aft'. seed Ergland only, Scotland en t , Ireland being e xe m pt e d e i t h er b y l aw, or practically 1) the tact of custom. Th e Ri g h t H on. G ent l ema n, the J r Chancellor of the E xc h equer , h a d a ll a d e d to the eels. brated speech of Mr. Huskisson in 1830. He Tenses' bared the words of that speech, and they appeared i s him at the time exactly to describe the state of thing d which then obtained. Only two alternatives presente f themselves to hi s m i n d i n t h e present con j unc t u re e; financial affairs. Either they must consent to a reduce; taxation, or to a g enera l system o f di rect taxat i o n. ` ll was impossible for the pr esen t s t ate o f t hi ngs to go °,O consistently with th e p reservat i on o f t h e tra d e o f the country. He was gl a d to h ear t h e Ch ancellor of tekt Exchequer expr ess th e op i n i ons t h at he had that nig:Ph uttered. They w ere th e pr i nc i p l es of H usk i sson , he hoped would lead to the gradual abolition of all ob noxious duties, which oppressed without benefitiel , society; and if agr i cu l tura l d ut i es stood i n ne ed 0 f reduction or r e p ea l, h e s h ou ld b e most w i ll i ng to copal , ~ in an endeavou r t o pl ace t h em on a more set i s f a ctol7 footing.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. NEWDEGATE said, that if Mr. rfuskissr could be restored to that House, he would pause ere be sanctioned, with his deliberate and experienced opinio n ' the application of those principles to the removal of tilos.° restrictive systems which, in agricultural produce and 111 navigation, he firmly believed had c on t r ibuted 1 0 ,! 0 ~ than all other caus es t o th e commerc i a l grea t ne ss of this country. The pictur e o f fi nanc i a l matters which t he o Chancellor of the Exchequer had drawn was by no me sit a very encouraging one . I n ono b reat h he too k cred i l d for the reductio n o f e i g ht m illi ons of taxation, and within the of conti nua lly d ecreas i ng exchequers wit° the period of that re d uct i on. H e t h oug ht it . delusion to say that prices of corn abroad could be 09 f precedent for prices at hom e , an d h e f e l t i t hi s duth if he could, to dispel it, which he could from statistical re turns published by the Board of Trade, and which were printed by order of the H ouse o f C ommons on the 7th of April, 1843. Those returns contained the prices of col in Denmark between th e y ears 1815 an d 1839, and appeared that the average price between those Year' was 295. a quarter, to which the expense of freight to this country must he added, amounting to about s s : • a quarter. At Il am b urg h , although the Right Honourable Baron e t t h e P res i dent of the Bon,r of Trade had st a t e d th at the average Pic„,"- ; of corn at that po r t, b etween the years 1839 an d 1 8' was 435. 4(1. per quarter, it was in fact only 265. and 27e 3d. Between the years 1837 and 1846, both inclusive' the average prices of corn were as follows:—At fla ir : burgh, 265. 3d.; at Lubeck, 295. 4d.; at Dantzic, 2 5 end at Stettin, 335. Bd. U pon t h at statement be mightr fairly assume th at , i nc l u di ng a sum of ss. a quar ter 1 0 e freight, corn mi g ht h ave b een d e li vered from a ny of the s e ports within the times above stated, at the average Pr i e r . of 355. a quarter. He had devoted many years to tu h ' study of this subject, and regretted the delusions wh ic ., prevailed upon it, but he could not be surprised at 0 1, result when such errors were circulated by persons c ',; authority. He had given the prices between the •years 183 ,: and 1846, because these were years when prices we re , - , - ; their natural level, before they were disturbed by hoh - v our ports thrown open to foreigners. It was of little use to cite Fra nce an d B elgium. There was no d o ubt that t a these aua s t t biunteiett c hhs o aea u trm n e le t vi ati were r s i ecng exportedaluarsi e g n caused by ebrxyapcntoochrreetn: lastthe exportations o e poverty ex o o ! of caused by pov e rty. Wh en he was in the United Sta tes' which occurred a few years since i , be took the pan s to o p f trlatcaticoon country It ascertain what wo u ld b e t h e probable range of Price°. He found th a t at N ew Orleans prices, from September, 1843, to 1845, r ange d on an average at 245. 8d• Per quarter; and, addin g th e expenses of transport at W e " it might b e i mpor t e d at 355. the querter. He, howev er ' of corn ln from the jest li r thought that t h e continental countries would be aid e to sell at lower prices. He hoped the House would excus e him for adverting to these matters, but he had done r e because he believed th e i n f ormat i on upon wh i c h b e made these statements was authentic. The trade and navign* tier) returns issued by the Board of Trade were cal ei Dated to delude the p u bli c upon t h e su b ject. It was statedin those document : : th a t t h e expenses from N ew York : we-e eleven s hilli ngs th e b ag, wh i ch was 50 Per cent, greater than the real amount, which w a not more than 6s. the bag. The Ch ance llor of the Exchequer a ll u d e d to the period of distill . ; bances on the Continent, an d appea l e d to him as an honest man to recal the opinion which be had formerly q: pressed, that these disturbances had not injured the tra de of this country. Altho ug h th e Right Hun. Gentleniuil: was net then in his pla ce h e wou ld answer t h at s PPea and begged to say that he did not think the disturbanc es on the Continent injured the trade of this country t° the extent which was a s cr ib e d to i t. Whatever disa'' vantage might have arisen from it, it was more than, compensated by the num b er of a b sentees they sen t bee' to . this country, and th e i n fl ux o f gold which was toes* untted to this country for safer deposit and investment' The circular distributed by niessre. Gibson and Ord, who r were free traders, st a t e d that Vie troubles of 1848 rath er aided the depression o f th at per i o d, an d ex p ress ed , an o opinion that nothing but a genera l wa r could injure te" trade of this country. The relief which was now pro' posed for the agric u ltur a l i n t erest was no t mor e than, s half per cent. upo n w h a t t h ey were state d a t by tu e Member for Wolverhampton to have lost by the abrogsh" Lion of the corn-laws. The Government held out no prospect of effectual relief. He was glad they had ma ero that explicit declaration. It was too much the cust - s , to speak of the agriculture of the country as if it was oe insignificant interest--(" Hear, hear," from the pt tectionists)—but he was assured it was too Pr n e o; ful and energetic to nduere a state of t"'"° by which it was avowed it was given up to hoe' less ruin. Lord IL GROSVERNOR had heard a port i on of i„„bte speech of th e Ch ance ll or of the Exchequer with reg t ,.% -. —(Hear.) Th e Ri g h t Hon. the Chancellor of the chequer admitted that the reduction of the tea would be a great b oon to the consumingduties. pealed to th e s t ate of t h e revenue from which 11 BP f peered th a t at no future period Would a reducti on ° those duties classes, but 61). be possible. He had certainly hoped , 69 his Right Hon. Friend had a surplus he would have been prep are d to propose a more courageous nie ssure. It became his duty a s h ort time ago to signalise one, tax, than which th ere was not one on t h e statute-boL more distinguished by want of principle and injustice-- he meant the tax on the attorneys' certificatcs•— ( R ea ' hear, and ironical cheers.) He dared Hon. ClentleinFll to the proof, and would give them an oppoittiliiiY of d . is . cussing the question after Easter, when he pledged bile, self to prove teat there was no tax on the statute-bo.o: more uojust in principle or more unequal or oppressive in its . application. But there were many other taxes to which the same observation would applY, and let th e House recollect that th ese t axes were i m p o sed during t he war, and w ere a di sgrace a f ter 35 years ot European lic.a ce c i He did n o t say t h at the amount of revenue de rived from thes e t axes was not requ i re d b y t h e p u blic servic e ; but it ought to he o bt a i ne d from other sources. Ti ler . ' was another p o i n t to w hi c h h e w i s h e d to direct the a t . " tention of the H o us e , an d that was the enormous amour of force all round England to guard Our customs,. be cause tie chose to place on a certain number of article: so heavy a duty that the mceess!ul run of one cargo out of seven or eight was sufficient to remunerate the smug' glen. He was very glad to find that the duty on brisks was likely to be removed. That no doubt was a O . IX which had been stigmatised by the Sanitary Commis sinners; but the window-tax, which was far more in.. furious, remained unrepe , ile(l.—(Hear, hear.) The fin.,. : nr7f - t? , , t.le benefit which wouid accrue to tne small occupiers from his proposed modification of the stamp duties, but no