The Sun. — London, England, 1845-06-18 00:00:00

Government for such an expenditure as other neighbourhoods in the metropolis, and, besides, the expense could not be incurred by the Woods and Forests without an Act of Parliament. Sir T. D. ACLAND gave notice that when in Committee on the Irish College Bill he should move the insertion of a clause, requiring an assurance from both Catholic ann Pro testant professors, that a portion of the New Testament should be daily read by the students.—( Hear. ) NEW ZEALAND. Mr. CHARLES 4FLLER said that if he had only to claim the attention of The House to the complaints on the part of the New Zealand Company, in such a case he would rely on the justiee and fair dealing of the Gentlemen he addressed to preserve the rights of private property ; but that case was en tirely merged in a far greater case of public mismanagement. The petition of the merchants of London and of the New Zea land Company, which he had the honour of presenting, com plained that a useful enterprise, wisely and usefully devised for the benefit of the people of this country, had been marred by the interference of the Government. After a successful commencement, that colony, which, from its position and re sources, and the energy brought to their development, was rapidly and steadily improving, was now in a stagnant and perishing state, and a great body of emigrants—industrious men—had all been cruelly treated. He waved all the advan tages that be could derive from the complaint that the Govern ment had been guilty of a breach of contract. His complaint was that a wise system of colonisation had been frustrated by a feeble and twiny jealousy. He knew no lesson so instructive on the subject of colonisation as that which New Zealand fur nished. If he could prove to the House that the New Zealand Company had followed that line of polity most conducive to the interests of the people of this country, and on the soundest principles, then be would ask the House to enforce the agree ment which the Government had entered into with the Company. If the House would agree with him in the soundness of those principles, which every sensible man outside the Colonial office must, he thought, concur in, he thought he would have no difficulty whatever in making out a complete case. If the House held the opinion entertained by commercial men and the great mercantile community of this country—if they thought that it was beneficial to cut out new employment for the shipping, the trading, and the manufacturing population— in fact, to extend the British name to the farthest ends of the earth—to extend her arts, her language, and her civilisation. He said that this was the great end which the New Zealand Company had in view—an end a hich was worthy of the policy of a great country—worthy of the consideration of a wise and patriotic Government—a Government overlooking, excusing, and repairing the many errors which might arise, with cor diality and with benevolence. He believed, than this there never was a fairer field for British industry. He believed that they never had opened to them a fairer prospect than the island of New Zealand. With the one disadvantage of a long steam voyage, it opened up the fairest field for the capital of this country. The extent of the island of New Zealand was nearly as great as that of Great Britain and Ireland. He found that it consisted of 78 millions of acres, out of which, deducting morass land and the great chain of alpine mountains, there were still left no less than sixty millions of acres of valuable land for arable purposes. The island had another great ad vantage, in an extended line of coast of more than three hun dred miles, abounding with harbours. In confirmation of these facts, he should refer the house to the evidence of highly credible and respectable witnesses, who had been examined before a Committee of that House during the last year, and he would read an extract from a letter of Governor Fitzroy's, dated the 16th of September, 1844. The House would find it at page 141 of the Parliamentary Papers, which had been laid en the table. ( The Hon. and Learned Member then read the letter, which described the island of New Zealand as being most valuable, and capable of the highest cultivation; abounding in mineral wealth, with large mines of copper, sulphur, iron, and coal.) Captain Fitzroy stated, what had long been known, that there were excellent mines of iron, copper, and sulphur close to the coast—that the whales were again returning to the coast. And here he would remind the House that the Southern whale fishery was the only whale fishery in the world, for the fishery in the Northern sea had almost entirely declined. Of the political position he need not remind Lord Stanley, for its whole aspect would be presented to his eyes. And he ( Mr. C. Buller) might say that he did not think that any man of sense could not but see what this country would be in the hands of any other power. The French were in posses sion of the Friendly Islands and the Marquesas. The United States were in possession of the Sandwich Islands. On one side there was the coast of America, the isthmus of Darien, Mexico, and Oregon. On the other, there was the whole of the Asiatic coast and the Indian Archipelago. Under a British Government, new Zealand was the Tatural arbiter of the ocean in which it was placed. In every portion of the coast there were harbours capable of taking the whole of the fleets of the world, and if the government were judiciously administered, the possession of the country would establish British empire over the Pacific Ocean. It became necessary, then, that this fine territory should be colonised in a regular manner, for it should be recol lected that it was being colonised in an irregular manner. Sailors and sawyers, who ran away from the whalers'which came there, had all settled on the island, and taken possession of allotments, and it was at length seen that it was impossible that things could go on there without British government and Bri tish law, and that it was necessary that some means should be taken for carrying order into New Zealand. The first regu lation was introduced by the Church Mi s si onar y S oc i e t y . He would not attempt to speak with disrespect of the Church Mis si.onary Society. He must say, however, that in the colony of New Zealand religious zeal had been used by worldly men for worldly ends. This afforded an instructive lesson, and one that ought *ll to be considered.—(Hear, hear.) Many of the person?' to whom he had alluded, not only jobbed in land for themselves, but they jobbed for others. Mr. Camp bell, the head of the Church Missionary Society, had made ap plication for himself and friends for land to the extent of forty miles square. An apologist of this gentleman in a pamphlet which had been addressed to the Hon. Member for Oxford, ( Sir R. Inglis) said that the Rev. Gentleman was justified in making this application. Of the thirty-five persons who had been employed by the Church Missionary Society in 1838, no less than twenty-three had sent in claims for land,—the total of which amounted to no less than 186,000 acres. This fact was mentioned in the Company's petition which he had pre sented a short time ago. The Rev. Henry Williams, one of the missionaries, bad obtained 11,000 acres. The same apologist to whom he (Mr. Buller) had alluded said that this Rev. Gentleman was fully entitled to this extent of land, seeing that he had a large family to provide for. With respect to the other missionaries it had been said that they had made application for the land with the secret object of restoring it to the natives.— ( Laughter.) This was a melancholy page of history, and he would not have dfiuded to it if it had not been to show what the influence of the Church Missionary Society had been. Whatever might have been the good effect produced by the exertions of the missionaries in New Zealand, there could be no doubt but that the first intercourse of the New Zealanders with Europeans had been attended with fatal results. In the year 1825, a chief, named Ilogae, who had been educated in England by thgsChurch Missionary Society, returned to New Zealand, bringing with him a cargo of fire-arms. He used those fire-arms against the other native tribes. He aimed at conquest—dreadful conflicts ensued—the other tribes got par tial possession of fire-arms, and were instructed in the use of them-_a war of extermination was the consequence. The middle island was utterly depopulated, and the northern island suffered greatly. Every traveller who had visited New Zealand since had spoken of the disastrous depopulation which had been the consequence of those wars. Another instance was that of a most remarkable character, of whom they had lately heard a great deal in connexion with the massacre of Wairou—he meant Raphinera. He was a chief of the Southern Island. He had made war against a rival chief—had defeated and taken him prisoner —had hung him up by his chin to a hook— had tortured him—and the next day the chief's wife was seen with his entrails hanging about her neck ; and this Raphi. raua was the chieftain who was the object of the especial patronage and regard of Governor Fitzroy.—(Cheers.) Other serious evils had also resulted from their connexion with Europeans. It was said that the New Zealanders were not as yet much addicted to the use of ardent spirits, but it should be remembered, that some time always elapsed before the wild man became thoroughly imbued with a taste for ar dent spirits, and as the New Zealanders had already began to acquire that taste, he was greatly afraid, that unless some great moral effort was made to raise their character, they would suffer as much from the use of ardent spirits as the North Americans had done. But the introduction of more innocent commodities had been productive of almost equally fatal results. Nothing had been more fatal than the substitution of the blanket for the native mat. It had given rise to the most de populating conflicts. It was quite clear that up to the first attempt at regular colonisation the depopulation of the country had been going on rapidly. Many districts which had been formerly well peopled were at the present moment absolutely uninhabited. It was proved upon the authority of a gentle man (whose name we did not hear) who was well acquainted with the whole region, that in 1837 the depopulation of the natives had gone on so far that they were but a remnant of the race, which flourished within the memory of many European residents. It became, under those circumstances, the policy of the English to establish their authority, and to lay down some rule of government for the colonists. But all those who had given their attention to the subject said that the present mode of government could not be persisted in.—( Hear.) His esteemed friend Sir R. Inglis had referred to the statements of Mr. Clarke as a high authority. But he (Mr. C. Buller) could scarcely ascribe such high authority to the statements of a gentleman who combined in his own person the occupations of Church missionary and jobber in land.—( Hear, hear.) He could not be persuaded upon such authority that the New Zealanders preserved records of the regular succession of their landed estates for 30 generations, or about 800 years. He could not think that such was the case amongst a people, who were clothed in mats, and fed upon fern roots, until Captain Cook euppli'ed them with potatoes.—( Hear, hear.) He could not believe that they were, as Sir R. Inglis had said, in a state of civilization equal to that of our Saxon ancestors, who laid the foundation of our Constitution, maintained a represen tative system, and the trial by jury.—( Hear, hear.) All this squeamishness, therefore, about applying the old Eng lish word " savage," seemed rather fastidious and absurd, when the subject of it was the only people who sedulously, or rather obstinately, persisted in cannibalism. A common expression 'of all neighbouring tribes had been " Pork is the fooa of the European and human flesh of the New Zealander."— "(Laughter.) They were inferior to the Caffres in all the arts of government or war, and were in every respect unworthy of comparison with that or an y contiguous or contemporaneous 'race. But while thus deficient in many of the facilities which noisily were conspicious in the most barbarous aborigines, they had qualities which rendered them pecudarly easy of civilisa tion. Instead of the gloomy and morose insociability which cha racterised the North American, they were possessed ofan amenity of disposition, and an inclination to associate with strangers, : which marked the character of the negro race. They were easy to be accosted. Europeans readily found access to them ; 'and as they had no chase, they lived on the produce of very bad :a a Zeultare, and we re i nterested i n learning the arts of others, repugnance b etween them and Europeans consequently subsided. It therefore was pe rfectly easy to amalgamate the - two races, and it was right t have conquered and subjugated the one, becau x se ce it t was hopeless to civilise the other—the New Zealander —e xcept inhabitants ttlltaenstablishing British rule. There were about 1 the whole of this large country. Stewart's Islands was tottsalt uninhaisited ; the middle island was as large as England and y Scotland together, and contained barely 1,500 inhabitants and there were about 10,000 people in the southern part of t he northern f tsland. It was preposter " ous to assert that the po•isession b y inhabitants d of so large a place was to exclude the rest of man k ind going there to cultivate the soil, and turn it to some principle.ifserofuml account. He knew no justification of any such and i t land seemed to him made for mankind general • not for a particular race to prevent alt y' other It ra w ce a s ‘ from enjoying it. The Government did not limit colonists as to the possession of the country, and he did not see why the Nee Zealanders should have more right to progress themselves in their wanderings from valley to valley, of one valley more than another, than the English had to make a settlement in the country. Suppose, for instance, the population of F rance were to be reduced to 20,000, which would be the number in • proportion as compared with the inhabitants of New Zeal an d ; and suppose, further, that the entire population was confined ' exclusively to Brittany and Normandy ' and lived solely by cultivating the fields in those districts, would anybody assert that it was proper and justifiable to allow that people to devote the remaining part of that extensive territory to. eternal bar renness? and that other countries would not consid er it advis able to pour in their hordes to occupy the waste land ? The condition of New Zealand, as contrasted with this statement, was precisely similar. A civilised man, whenever he comes in .contact with a savage, was bound to treat him with consideration and kindness. He was bound to guard against anything that should allow the savage to perceive his own degradation tween the natives and the settlers, as satisfaction for this out rage, all of which might have been avoided by Captain Fitzroy having had the firmness to have put the chief and some of his followers in gaol for a week.--( Hear, hear.) Captain Fitzroy, then, in order to show that he was still in earnest, offered re wards of 501. for the apprehension of the chiefs of those tribes who had committed those robberies, and 1001. for the appre hension of the first chief, whom he (Mr. Buller) had mentioned, in reply to which that chief said he conceived that such conduct towards him on the part of Captain Fitzroy, was treating him like a pig—. (Laughter)—and he followed that up by offering a reward of 1,000 acres of land to any person who would bring him Capt. Fitzroy's head.—( Great laughter.) This part of the subject might be laughable, but he begged to tell the House he very much feared the result would be a conflict, at which the Go vernment would shudder, for upon them lay the responsibility. —( Hear, hear.) The Government would also have to bear the responsibility of results consequent upon their not having established in that colony those tree institutions which were the birthright' of every Englishman, but instead of those, the Government had sent out to govern this colony the enlightened despotism of Captain Fitzroy, and his assistants.—(Hear, hear.) And yet, notwithstanding all this, the Government had paid functiosiaries in every department, though it was generally supposed that the colony would have been able to defray its own expenses.—( Hear, hear.) But instead of that, the expenses of the Government in the Colony now were about 38,000/., not including a debt of 60,0001.—( Hear, hear. ) He (Mr. Buller) had heard that the Government had re called Captain Fitzroy, and that, it was the intention to send Captain Grey in his place. Now he (Mr. Buller) did not wish to say anything in reference to Captain Grey; but at the same time he did think, that such a man as Sir Henry Pottinger, or some person of experience like him, would be the proper party to send out.—( Hear, hear.) He had now done with this subject, and he would conclude, by propos ing the resolutions of the Committee, which he was willing to admit, could not be passed without some modification. But he would call upon the House to tell the colonial officers that they could not exercise an uncontrolled power in respect to this colony, without being brought to account for their acts. —( Loud cheers. ) Mr. MONCKTON MILNES said he would detain the House with only a few words, after the splendid speech of his Hon. Friend. This was a question not only of great national importance, but one which would affect the cha racter of England throughout the whole world.—( Hear, hear. ) He regretted that he, like every other Member of that House, knew very little of this subject, when he first became a mem ber of the Committee from whom these resolutions had emanated. He must act upon his own convictions such as they were. The first consideration which enforced itself upon a person with respect to the state of this country was the em ployment of the surplus population of the country. He had great regard for colonisation, as it was a matter of vital and immediate interest. It gave him great satisfaction when he saw the old spirit of colonisation; as it were, in one moment, making head. He believed that, notwithstanding the hard words that had fallen from his Hon. Friend, he would agree with him (Mr. M. Milnes) that no one Member of that House would for a moment believe that any Englishmen would be guilty—for he must use the word guilty—of any desire to perpetrate injustice on the natives of New Zealand. Still, however, he did not believe that the feeling which existed in this country was that the sacrifice of the English population in New Zealand was to be justified by the preservation of the savages of New Zealand. After the great detail which had been gone into upon this subject, he should think it very im prudent in him to intrude on the House. He would, how. ever, call the attention of the House to what Professor Spain had said upon the question and state of New Zealand. The Honourable Member then read several extracts from the correspondence of Professor Spain, in which the writer slated that the British law and authority in New Zealand were totally disregarded. The notion of the value of property held by the natives of New Zealand was widely different to what it was in civilised society. The whole matter could not be more clearly put than in one sentence in a very excellent work by young Mr. Wakefield, in which he said that the purchasers of land in New Zealand were not purchasers of land between such and such boundaries, but were purchasers of all rights, and powers, and authorities within certain limits. He (Mr. M. Manes) would implore the Government not to lose sight of this subject, but to do all in their power to better the condition of so important a colony as New Zealand. Ile owned he had strong feelings of sympathy with the sufferers in those distant parts. In England the East India Company were creating India, when England was losing America. The empire of Eastern India was a lesson to Governments to trust to the energy, and sense, and justice, and honour of the Eng lish people. Men of all politics and principles were now banded together, confiding in the intregrity and ability of a public Company, and requiring that the local Government of New Zealand should net emanate from the Colonial-office at home. —( Hear, hear.) The Government of this country was not capable of adapting circumstances for the benefit of a distant colony. Men were sent out to a station of society of which they were comparatively ignorant, and to a situation which, if occurring and so filled at home, they would be declared totally unfit for. When Englishmen were so tenacio of unlicensed authority, and pre-eminent for their love of free dom, as well as their impatience of undue restraint, they should make excuse for the feelings of those who, subject to the mercy of petty officials, at times gave way to irritation. —(Hear, hear.) He thanked the House for the attention with which he had been heard. He had ventured to address the House on a subject of deep importance, and would con clude where he began, by declaring that the only excuse he had for seconding the motion was a wish to direct the attention of Members to that great question, and show them they must meet it with all their hearts and feelings, as a question involv ing the interests, not of individuals, but the whole of this country. They must trust to the honour and energy of the New Zealand Company, who would doubtless co-operate with her Majesty's Government, if allowed, to establish in the Pacific a nucleus of commerce, civilisation, and power, equal to that which had arisen in the East, and assist in establishing in those seas an Antarctic India.—( Hear, hear.) The question having been put, Mr. HOPE rose, under no ordinary feelings of embarrassment, not only from a sense of the magnitude of the subject, but of his inability to do justice to the character of an absent party, against whom aspersions had been cast in the strongest manner, reflecting both on his character and motives. He had been charged with hostility to colonisation, and with hostility to the Company. As to colonisation the Noble Lord looked upon it as one of the greatest remedies of the country, but he did not regard it as a panacea for all evils or a remedy for paupers. When the present Secretary for the Colonies succeeded the Noble Lord the Member for London, he found a discussion pending between the Government and the Company, but so far from pressing the opposition which was at that time offered it, he rescinded the in structions of the Noble Lord and used his best efforts to co-operate with the Company. The sentiments then en tertained of the conduct of the Noble Colonial Secretary he (Mr. Hope) found thus expressed in the Parliamentary Re ports of last year, page 42 :—" The Directors cannot conclude this letter (a letter signed by the chairmae, Mr. Somes, now Member for Dartmouth) without offering your Lordships a tender of their thanks for the generous conduct you have evinced towards the Company, and their cordial thanks for the orders to be issued to the Governor of the Colony." Since then, every concession had been made that was felt con sistent with his duty, and the collision with the Company could be accounted for solely by the Company making a demand which involved the interests of a third party, and the ques tion of what was the right by which the New Zealanders held the tenure of their land. Then it was that the Government refused to concede to an unjust request, and withheld ttheir co-operation from the Company. The Hon. Gentleman found it necessary to debase the cha racter of the New Zealander as low as possible. He stated that they were no better than cannibals. There was little doubt that cannibalism did exist at one time among the na tives ; but, on the contrary, the Hon. Gentleman might have said that, out of the hundred thousand aborigines, at p resen t forty thousand were professing Christianity. H e nee d no t have charged these inoffensive people with the abominable vices he had mentioned. He stated also th a t, in hi s op i n i on , the natives of Near Zealand in every point of view were infe rior to the Caffres. This assertion was inconsistent with some of the statements of his own agents, that there were natives who owned vessels, were engaged in trade, and who, in various departments of life, followed the practice and arts of Europeans. —( Hear.) Why, then, did the Hon. Gentleman say that these people were in such a debased state ? Why ? Because it was necessary for him to show that they could have no rights, or that their rights ought not to be regarded. He would now allude to the treaty made by the Noble Lord, the predecessor of the present Secretary for the Colonies, on which the Hon. Gentleman had commented. He commenced by making use of those powers of sarcasm which he so emi nently possessed, for the purpose of th row i ng ridi cule on all the proceedings that had taken place. With respect to the New Zealanders, he declared that there should be an end to the solemn mockery, and he contended that the whole affair was a farce, and a farce carried on for their own benefit ; and as it was not convenient to carry it on any longer with a profit, the time had arrived for doing away with it altogether. The Hon. Member had admitted this ; also that the New Zealanders were not competent to be dealt with by treaty. Now, what was the case? If the Hon. Member says that onr right was a right of discovery, and that no steps had been taken to invalidate that right, therefore we must stand upon our original claims of discovery. He would refer to a transaction that took place at the close of the late Government in 1839, with regard to the New Zealanders. He had found a memorial, in which it was stated that an Act had been passed in the reign of King William IV., which recognised the rights of New Zea land as an independent country. Subsequently Acts for colo nisation had been refused on the ground that it was not com petent for Parliament to legislate for a territory which was not within the jurisdiction of the British realm. 'f he country was not part of her Majesty's dominions, therefore could not be legislated for. A national flag had been granted to the New Zealanders, and Mr. Busfield had been appointed as the British representative ; how, then, could Parliament, after having solemnly recognised th e i r i n d epen d ence , now consistently re voke it altogether, and annihilate all that had been done? The instructions of Lord Normanby, to which the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton had referred, declared New Zealand to be a perfectly independent country. The treaty of . Waratonga stated that the family o f t h e Q ueen was t o remain in possession of the sovereignty, and that the people were to remain undis turbed in the possession of their lands, estates, and forest pro perty, which they might individually or collectively own. It was now proposed to set aside the right of pre-emption. As late as the year 1836 there were 2,000 British settlers in New Zea land on lands purchased from the natives, and these purchases had not been made on a small scale, for out of the 1,000 land owners, 750 were possessed of estates, each exceeding 1,000 acres. The N ew Z ea l an d C ompan y had made all their pur chases of land on the faith and honour of the natives, and ;a good and valid possession had been obtained. The New Zealand Comp any h a d a ll a l ong proc eede4 on the assumption that the natives were the legal proprietors of the soil, and could dispose of it at pleasure. The proceedings of Colonel Wakefield in the purchase of land, from the natives, left no doubt on their minds as to the subject. He had bought estates, on the understanding that they had power to dispose of the waste lands, and it was preposterous to suppose to the contrary.. The treaty with the aborigines had been established entirely on the strength of the understanding that the . natives had all l w d e o r u t h o t d th is u p t os t e he of u w a a t s iv te es la w n e d r s e , an ti l e thi o s r f i a g e io t e i sta u b u l d ish l e e d g b i.t e im yo a n t d e owners. In 1839, it was considered expedient to colonise the hadwas adopte d stated that fnr country, and the method of purchasing land from the natives he h e e p w u o r u p l Gentleman withou t opposite reard to the natives, and that the colonial laws would have authorised his so doing, and he (Mr. Hope) would observe, however, that the colonial laws referred only to the possessions the Go vernment held in the eountry ; and in the treaty it was re odsehaveTthaekelninthne. lands re solved that only such waste lands should be secured to the Crown, as were not requ i re d f or the use of the natives. This treaty was made accordin g t o i n structions furnished to Captain Hobson, and on the principles already stated. That treaty was made on the 6th of February, 1840. In a, a statement fur nished at the time, in refere nc e to this treaty, there was a pas sage setting forth that the u n derstanding upon which the treaty was founded, was, that the privileges and customs of the natives in respect to the land should be preserved to them — that the land should never be taken from them. This principle did not depend on one statement, but on statements made by every party who had had anything to do with the making of the treaty—not only by the C o lonial Secretary, bat by the mis sionaries, much as their characters and veracity hadbeen im pugned. In fact, every party had given the same interpreta- On the question of the right to the lands the had tion to the treaty, who bad been a party to its original nativesexecu tion. been united, and they relied on the good faith of the Govern ment to protect them in their privileges. But the by a supercilious assumption of superiority. He was also un der an obligation to communicate to him all that he was ac quainted with as regarded the civilised arts. He could not conceive that any better proposition could be adopted than the principles of our own laws, and of all civilised nations. That law had never asserted t'l- right of depriving the Indian of his possessions. The law of other na tions had been that the Indian was not to be deprived of every right. At the same time the rights of property among savages did not assimilate to the rights of property in civilized nations, and therefore could not be regulated by a similar law. The principle laid down by several eminent jurists was, that you were not to deprive the savage of the land he owned, and you were to respect in him the universal rights of property which he hitherto possessed. It had been said by some writers that it was right, in regard to savages, even to limit their appropria tion of the land for the purposes of the chase. This rule, however, had not been applied to the natives of New Zealand. They had not been interfered with in this respect. They had not been disposssed of their lands, but to that extent which all writers on the laws of nations admitted to be correct in principle. That which they were in the habit of using as hunting-grounds had not been interfered with. The real evil connected with the colo nisation of New Zealand was the bringing of a strange and a superior race in contact with the natives ; and the latter could not stand against the former unless great care was taken. They ( the Government) were bound to protect these people against the encroachments of the former, and to see that coin pensatioa was given them, not for the land that was appro priated by the new settlers, but on account of the inferiority of their position. Was this compensation to be given to them in money, or was it to be given in the shape of rum, brandy, muskets, or gunpowder ? He was sure there was not a man in that House but what would recoil from the idea of such a compensation. He could not better express his views on this kind of compensation than by reading a letter from the New Zealand Company en the subject. The Hon. Member here read extracts from the letter condemnatory of the practice of granting compensation of this kind, either in spirituous liquor or fire-arms, and pointing out the superior provisions which the New Zealand Company had afforded. The Hon. Member, after reading the document, said it could not be denied that the Company had been the best friends the savage had ever found. It might be said that the Company purchased land too cheap, but what was the fair value of land which, in reality, had no p. »e—tney gave more for it than had been given for the whole state of Pennsylvania. They thought giving back to the savage one cultivated acre out of ten was ample compensation—the very best kind of compensa tion. The Colonial-office thought they discharged their duty when they enabled the savage to sell his land at a high price. It was very hard to preserve the swage when he came into contact with the civilized man—it could not be done by laws or regulations—it could only be effected by the force of sympathy. The laws did not arbitrarily alter the distinctions among the savage race, but preserved them, and when they took away from the chief his warlike distinctions, they gave him more solid re wards by making him a large landholder. The savage could be only pre-erved by amalgamation, and the project of the Com pany was a large and a sound one, which had been thwarted by a narrow and a feeble policy. The policy of the Missionary Society, a, appeared by the evidence of Mr. Dennison before the Hone- of Lords, was to engross the entire control over the savage. This policy had nearly ruined New Zealand, and had entirely ruined Tahiti, and thrown it into the arms of France. In short, nothing could be more arbitrary than the views of those missionaries. The Government sent Mr. Busby to New Zealand, in 1837, as the resident in that country, and he was directed to acknowledge the esiew Zealand flag— they then had no flag, but a number of flags was sent them of which the natives chose the gaudiest. Mr. Busby got thirteen of these savage chiefs together, who, in a pompous manner, declared their independence under the title of the Congress of the United Tribes of New Zealand, and concluded the declaration in the oddest possible manner, viz., by putting themselves under the protection of the Government. These flags, declaration, &c., were, to use the emphatic and idiomatic language of Mr. Carlyle, nothing but lies and sham. Nothing could be more absurd than this declaration of inde pendence. So far did these missionaries and this pretended Congress push their pretensions, that France, seeing the island so much better cared for by the British Government, was about to claim it for herself ; and were it not for the prompt interposition of his Noble Friend (Lord Palmerston) it would have been sacrificed. When the Company interfered to put an end to those wretched manifestations, Lord Stanley defended the conduct of the missionaries, and said that those who dif fered with him must resign their posts as Government offisers. The missionaries, Stack, Williams and others went about ob taining the signatures of the chiefs to this wretched treaty of Waitanga. The chiefs, it was true, signed this treaty, but it was quite plain they knew nothing whatever about what they were signing, and, indeed, it was quite plain they did not, for what man, savage though he might have been, would barter away the nationality of his country for a blanket.—( Great laughter. ) It might be supposed he was speaking jocosely, but, in truth, the reward given to the savage chieftain for his signature was a blanket. The missionaries poked into every hole and coraer, and by promises and rewards induced those ignorant savages to sign a paper, of the contents of which they have since declared they understood nothing. In some of these dip lomatic negotiations with savages, where the bargain was all on one side, a piece of tobacco was thrown in ; and it is somewhere recorded that one of the chiefs being found fishing in Cook's Straits, was hooked on board and bought over with a glass of rum. Yet the act of this assemblage of savage, ignorant chiefs, was designated by Lord Stanley a solemn treaty, and spoken of in the same manner as those of Westphalia or Amiens.--( Hear.) But, as he had already said, the chieftains who signed it had repudiated it. 'I hey declared they were ignorant of what they were signing. The Government had, therefore, no right to take advantage of this treaty. They possessed the right which dis covery gave them, and no other. The treaty did not remove that paramount obligation which superior civilisation had im posed on them. Butadmitting for a moment that these signa tures were bona fide ones, how could the signatures of some chiefs in the northern parts of the island bind those who resided in the southern, as they were not a representative body.— ( Hear.) Captain Hobson only took possession of the southern island, and therefore it in no way affected the case, and throughout the whole of the controversy between the New Zealand Company and Lord Stanley, that was invariably kept in view by the Company. After the treaty of Waitanga it was well known that it only applied to the southern island. He was now coming to the real question. He did not object to the treaty of Waitanga, or the provisions by which the Act re cognising it intended to carry it out, but he would show that the treaty had been erroneously interpreted, and that her Majesty was fully entitled to the possession of the waste lands —and that, too, by the treaty of Waitanga itself. It was said that they had taken possession of the lands of which the natives were the rightful owners. But was that the case ? The country was, when we took possession of it, only in the hands of what were called " savages ;" and the question was, what would be their state under the British Government, and what under their own laws. As they were circumstanced, it was utterly impossible for them to occupy the soil, and therefore they could not possess any property. As they could not possess property, they could net alienate it. And how was this argument sustained? Why, they presumed that the natives were in possession of the land, and they went from one chieftain to another, and be stated, that he laid claim of the land from headland to headland. How had they been represented? He would give an instance. Mr. Coates had stated that Dr. Dakenback had been refused a piece of land, because he had no Bibles to give them. This was one specimen of the way in which mis sionary reports were made up, and would show to the public the way in which they were gulled. This statement was made two years after Dr. Dakenback had published his travels; but on referring to Dr. Dakenback himself, he found it stated that the Doctor had desired to go to the top of the mountain, not because he had no muskets or no Bibles, but because the na tives refused to allow him to ascend the mountain unless he gave them four sovereigns, and he had not at the time so much gold about him.--(Hear, hear.) The chief claimed the moun tain, because he said it was the backbone of his ancestor.—. ( Hear, and a laugh.) Now he (Mr. C. Buller) was very far from saying that a man might not have a property in his back bone —( A laugh)—but it was very evident that in this instance the claim to the land arose from no sense of the right of pro perty, but out of a superstitious notion. But in the question before the House, it was not so much a matter affecting the rights of property as the rights of sovereignty. The law re cognised no right of property but that which was accom panied by occupation. The law was full of precedents upon this point, and the principle itself had been adopted by the Government in the treaty of Waitanga. For in the two documents sent to this country by Captain Fitzroy, it was explicitly laid down, and the terms used were, " Such lands as were enjoyed or occupied by the natives." Now, the word " enjoyed" was of much narrower significance than the term " occupied," and the Government only engaged to give a guarantee for the possession of that property which, prior to purchase, had thus been enjoyed or occupied. This very plainly showed the sense in which the Government understood the second article of the treaty of Waitanga. And there was no doubt that the waste lands which were not occupied by the natives were in the possession of her Majesty by the right of sovereignty. He would be one of the last persons in the world to destroy the rights of another, but he thought that there was nothing to prevent the assumption of the waste lands by the Crown to which they properly belonged. The system which had been adopted of paying the natives for the purchase of that which they never possessed, was altogether mischievous. It was the aet of bad friends—he would net say of false friends—to give large prices to the natives for land, which would only be wasted in the gratification of their pas sions, and was neither more nor less than administering poison to the system. Prices had been unduly elevated, and to a certainty they would come down, and it was not in. Bibles or in gold that the price would be seen, but in rum, gunpowder, and tobacco; and the only object they would effect would be administering to the rude and violent passions of the natives.—( Hear, hear.) He was here ascribing no such evil tempers and dispositions to the settlers for it was a rule which invariably came into operation when a society in a high state of civilisation came into contact with a barbarous tribe, that the latter were invariably:destroyed. It had been witnessed in every quarter and country of the earth, and seemed to be a necessity which could not be overcome. But in this instance the destruction might certainly be retarded, if not altogether prevented. Which, he would ask, was the better mode of securing the interests of the natives—to pay them high prices for that which was not their own, to enable them by a wild indulgence of their passions to destroy themselves ; or, by nurturing up for them a property which might prove useful, enable them hereafter to enjoy and improve that to which they were really entitled. By a document which had been laid be fore the Legislative Council, it appeared that, out of 60,000,000 of acres, the Government had retained only 1,700,000 acres for itself, leaving 58,300,000 to the natives, or to be purchased as the natives might be disposed to sell, only reserving a right of resumption to the Crown. The evil, however, did not end here, for by interfering between the native and the white man, the Government had absolutely destroyed the only benefit which they expected to achieve. When the Government had first taken possession of New Zealand, it had appropriated the whole of the land to itself, but they had been di verted from their design ; but this had been the principle adopted by Lord Normanby, and his Noble Friend at the head of the Colonial Department in the late Government ; and the consequence was, they were obliged to adopt a system by which they had forced land up V. an acre, which had afterwards so fallen as to cause arisen with the Government, he took the very measures to im plicate them as far as he could, Where had he fixed his seat of Government? Among the natives ! They did not want him. They had no desire to be the witnesses of his greatness.—(Laughter.) He did not go out to govern the natives but the English settlers, and yet he fixed his seat of Government among the natives. It seemed to him (Mr. C. Buller) that .vhatever advantage might have arisen from the amalgamation of the interests of the natives and the settlers, that the means adopted to bring it about had the very opposite tendency. Another evil, of a most mischievcus character, was the speculation in land—the disposing of parcels by auction—and the extent to which this system was carried could scarcely be credited. Advertisements were circulated, and town land, in consequence, sold at Auckland to an amount of 38,0001., twenty-one acres alone having brought the dis proportioned sum of 21,000/.—( Hear, hear.) All the best spots in the New Town had, however, been retained for the Government officers.—( Hear, hear.) And what did the report of the Governor say to this? He wrote home a dis patch, which seemed more like the attempt of a country tradesmen to run down his rivals, than the report of a man placed in an important colonial situation. And yet the affairs of the colony flourished, and they founded new towns at Nelson and other places. Their first great principle was to supply land at 20s. an acre, allowing 155., however, to be retained for the purposes of cultivation, a n d r es e rvi n g b u t th e remaining ss. tor the outlay of capital and as a remuneration for their labours. The consequence of this was, that capitalists were induced to embark their property in New Zealand. Roads were opened in very considerable numbers in the neighbour hood of Auckland, and a college for the dissemination of edu cation and a bishopric was established at Nelson with the happiest effect. Emigrants of a better class were induced to leave this country, and to go out to the new colony, because the com pany had shown, by their actions, that the propagation of the great public objects for which they had been associated was their first and permanent principle, and therefore, he re peated, it was that many persons belonging to the very best classes in England had withdrawn their property from this country to embark it in New Zealand. He had read a book of Mr. Wakefield's, which gave a most interesting account of the progress of the colony from the first settlement, to the period when he found it inhabited by persons of a superior class from Britain, who lived in the greatest harmony with the natives, of whom there were one or two in every house, acting faithfully and gratefully as servants.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Buller) thought, if a statesman had wisely re garded the state of things described in that book, he would have done all in his power to assist the progress—( Hear, hear)— He would have said to the colonists, " Go on in your happy course and you shall not have to complain of any want of assistance upon my part ;" and he thought that if any angel could have carried Lord Stanley over the ocean, and enabled him to look down with his own eyes upon all that was passing:, the Noble Lord would not have allowed official jealousy to in terfere with prosperity--( Hear, hear)—and certainly would have done anything rather than excite the passions and encourage the barbarous cupidity of the natives.—( Hear. ) When his Noble Friend ( Lord J. Russell) determined that it was right to take possession of New Zealand for the British Crown, he recognised no right in the savage except to the ground which the latter actually occupied, and accordingly to the civilised man no right derived from the savage which the savage himself had not previously possessed. But his Noble Friend modified that view by making an allowance in favour of those who had actually paid for the lands they possessed, and who had turned those lands to a useful account for civilisation. He therefore came to the resolution of giving to the settlers the land which had been allotted to them under native titles, at the rate of ss. per acre. The agreement of 1840, fully entitled the New Zealand Company to the confirmation of all their rights.--- ( Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member then went into a detailed account of the inquiries under Mr. Pennington, and the negotiations between the Company and Mr. Vernon Smith. He read also the communications of Governor Hudson with Government ; and upon the whole he contended that the New Zealand Company had a right to hold themselves exempted from the subsequent inquiries of Mr. Spain. Upon the faith of the agreement of 1840, they had, by the desire of the Go vernment, trebled their capital, and had sent out a large num ber of emigrants (nearly 2,000) of the first class, under the express sanction of the Commissioners of Emigration.—( Hear, hear.) The consequence of the departure from the agreement had produced great misery and danger to the natives and to the colony. If Lord Stanley had got over that spirit of pugnacity which had damaged every department of the public service with which he had been connected—if he had been contented with resisting only wherever his dislikes were fixed—without desiring to crush—he might have spared himself from wit nessing the distress and ruin, which must add to his official difficulties. If Lord Stanley had answered the first letter of the New Zealand Company in a conciliatory spirit these evil con sequences might have been prevented. The latter agreement of the Government was incompatible with the former. They made a grant of land which it was not in their power to grant to the New Zealand Company, and it was not intimated to the Company that Lord Stanley had made a grant of land which it was not in his power to give. They entered into an agreement in May, 1843, by which it was stipulated that the Government should give them a conditional title to all the land which would be selected by their agents. The effect of that grant was to be their getting immediate possession, and a prima facie title for those lands, leaving it to the natives to oust them afterwards, if they could. That agreement was accepted, and the company were contented; but they did not receive immediate possession. And in Feb, 1844, they were made acqainted with a secret correspondence which seemed not merely to deprive them of all possession, but to render the agreement worth less—because it was of importance to the execution of that agreement that the agents of the Government should select the lands which were to be granted, and to which effect Captain Fitzroy received instructions, which he did not obey. The company then moved for a committee and they got a distinct answer that Lord Stanley meant that the grant should be an unconditional grant of land. They had the committee, and five gentlemen were taken from his side of the House, and ten from the other side. The under-secretary objected to the names on his own side, and struck out three of them, and substituted for those three the names of gentlemen of whom it was but just to say, that they had always voted steadily with him.—( Laugh ter.) Nevertheless, to such a Committee Lord Stanley and the Company agreed to leave the question. Considering the composition of the Committee he thought that the House would be very much inclined to pay respect to their opinion on any question of public interest, and particularly on any matter of controversy with respect to private right that might be referred to their decision. In the first officer of the Committee the Go vernment were angry with them (the Opposition) becau se th e y did not agree with the decision of that Committee. It was a difficult thing fur a man to know his position in such a case. He thought a man might feel a great deal of difficulty ; but in any circumstances in which a man had the sole power of de ciding en a matter of personal controversy, he thought that no man could be too ready to give his candid opinion ; and he was of opinion that a man ought to be bound by his decision. Lord Stanley agreed to refer the matter to a Committee, and when' the decision of the Committee was given against him he refused to be bound by the decision of those whom he himself appointed. The Company were to have a conditional grant, as well as im mediate possession, which was not given. What, then, was to be done with the grant ? Were they not right in saying that Captain Fitzroy had been misled by Lord Stanley, when, since the time of that agree ment, there was not one instance of an attempt to execute it, when it ought to be carried into effect at least in a week? A wretched quibble was made that there would be a formal de wand made upon the agents. Was it necessary, when a man made a promise, that a formal demand should be made ? Cap tain Fitzroy had induced fresh payments to be made to the na tives, which was by no means a part of the bargain.—( Hear. ) He refused to confirm the commissions of award, which was perfectly wrong. For thirteen months that agreement had remained without any attempt to carry it into effect. The agreement was a delusion, a snare, and an injury to the New Zealand Company. The agreement had been entered into without any intention whatever to carry it into effect. Thus Lord Stanley had repudiated the agreement of a former Mi nister and broken his own. He sacrificed 300,000/. of the capital of the New Zealand Company, and they still re mained without a single acre of land. By that means Lord Stanley exhausted their capital and put an end to its operation. That was their cruel treatment to a Company against whom the Government never brought a charge. What was that, however, to the misery and ruin which occurred to the unhappy emigrants who were kept from access to the lands which they purchased at a high price in England. Lord Stan ley might . at least have written to the Governor to take some little care that those people should be allowed access to their lands. They were, however, denied access to their lands ; and they saw fresh tribes coming and establishing themselves in places which they had never visited before. The emigrants had their houses pulled down, and their lives put in danger ; and when they applied for redress the answer was that no re dress should be given. There was one systematic refusal of redress to those people who were suffering under those griev anees. The Government made a proclamation, that if any savage set up a claim the emigrants should be turned out. In consequence of these and other transactions on the part of the Government, all the public works had been stopped, and a still greater evil was, that an immense mass of labourers were thrown out of employment. The last news was that Captain Fitzroy, by his own financial mismanagement, had determined that nothing should be done towards cheapening the Government of New Zealand. He had gone to several places refusing to establish the the title to land, and promised to bring the inhabitants to Auckland, where he w3uld rectify the agree ment which they were not satisfied with. He then tried to force them. It was on these accounts that hardly a ship came back to this country without some poor labourer who went out for work to New Zealand, and, being disappointed, came back to a union workhouse in this country. At the same time the Government did nothing for the natives—they totally dis regarded their real interests. For five months, without the in terference of any British law whatever, had 1,500 Europeans been living in intercourse with the natives, and not the slightest casualty or dispute had ever occurred between them.—( Hear.) In fact, they had been living upon such good terms with each other, the settlers and the natives, that several European families had two and three of the natives in their employment, and others had many more.—( Hear, hear. ) But here the Government stepped in with its laws and its in terference, causing a disunion and a fight amongst those who had heretofore lived upon terms of friendship—all about a trumpery matter of land, and the consequences would be such, that they would not be effaced without the most dis astrous consequences.—(Hear, hear.) A feud of blood had been caused that never could be eradicated from the mind of the white man, for he felt that a wrong had been done him, and that the black man had been favoured in preference to him, and the result would be, that neither would be satisfied until he had achieved the extermination of the other.—( Hear, hear. ) Oh, but then he might be met by Hon. Gentlemen opposite telling him that this had all been the fault of the New Zea land Company themselves, and all owing to their own precipita tion ; if so, then let him ask how would that excuse apply to similar eneounters that had taken place in parts of the colony where the New Zealand Company had never set a foot?— ( Hear, hear.) Now, just let him call the attention of the House to what had occurred, not very long ago, in the colony. At the time he was alluding to, a New Zealand chief, who dis played a great deal of intelligence in all matters.that . he con ceived told against our settlers—(Laughter)—came down amongst some of those settlers, and robbed them of their pro perty, and destroyed their houses, and committed all manner of depredations, whereupon Captain Fitzroy went with a military force at his back, to this chief, who made a sort of apology for what he had done, which Captain Fitzroy said was a most am ple apology—( A laugh )—and thereupon he proceeded to ano ther district, and encountered another party of natives, whom he punished for this depredation by fining them ten muskets— (laughter)—and then, in order to appease the chief, whom he feared he had offended, he absolutely abolished the only two custom- houses existing in the colony.---( Laughter.) The mime. quence of all this lenient treatment to this chief was, that other chiefs and natives, emboldened by Captain Fitzroy's treatment of the first one, made a descent upon another settler, a Mr. Wright, and robbed him of valuable property to a very large amount, and yet they were not punished by Captain Fitzroy.— ( Hear, hear.) Notwithstanding all this, and that despatches had been received at the Colonial-office, stating those facts, yet Lord Stanley sent out orders to New Zealand subsequently, ordering that the militia that had been raised in that country should be disbanded, because indeed the natives had been reported to him to have been a little out of te aou r f : ( 30: H ed e iime a e i r : c h au e tt ar hu , d a o n tw d a laugh.) But even this did not s T a h tis is fy ia :l t i a is ct ex .o t f raordi nary chief, for he very soon after came d he down again amongst the English settlers, and in the presence aggressionnat le e ngth rl ar ls ouse a d g- C s a a ptarn Fitzro y, ear. sydney ; and villa wouid in ta t e h earnest, res ßritish l t b a h e n sent vir t h f y ff o , r soldiersw(ija be ) a serious 1,..s to those who held it. In September, 1844, Go vernor Fitzroy issued another proclamation, by which he had imposed a tax of a penny an acre on all lands which were not held by the natives, and this had afterwards been increased to twop ence an acre. Now, this was exceedingly strange, for it was evident that the exemption was not to be extended to the Government lands, for that would only be imposing a tax on pro perty, for which, if it was not paid, the land would be liable to confiscation, and it was ridiculous to suppose the Government should impose a tax on their own lands, and then confiscate those lands to themselves if that tax was not paid. Lord Stanley had, indeed, spoken in the most glowing terms of the propriety of Government adhering to the terms of the treaty, but he h a d at t h e same time privately winked at his Colonial It was done as robberies are always done.—(He Governor, who in consequence imposed a land-tax —( Al h ) g a was thatdoing shortit . — 1) e ( r H i n e d a r w , h h e e n a hear. He a s a in g i led earNTobblee case was at veryth em differentw hile during i w n Member for London and the Noble Marquis (the Mar " • Normanby) held the chief power. But how did auplatas)nf Hobson, the first Governor of the island, after the treaty hadl been entered into with Government how did he act? Why his sole object—the only governing idea in his head —seemed to be the very ludicrous one of impressing the Compauy's settlers with a very high idea of his own dignity.—:(Laughter.) H e went out, accompanied by 800 persons, to give laws to 10,000 out of the 14,000 Euglish settlers already established, and thatmight have instead of soothing any misunderstandings THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAI_ EVENING, JUINE 18, 1845 Noble Lord, the Member for the City of London, had himself assented to the same doctrine at that time, being then Colonial Secretary. The Hon. Mem ber here read several extracts from dispatches forwarded from the Government of New Zealand to her Majesty's Govern ment, with the opinions of the Noble Lord thereon, approving of the principle which he (Mr. Hope) had been defending, respecting the title of the natives of the land. The extracts would be found in the Parliamentary Papers of 1831, No. 311, page 10. The statment of the Noble Lord, then, if good for anything, was a full justification of the terms of the treaty which Captain Hobson had concluded with the na tives—the establishment of the right of the natives to the soil, and that no purchase of land should be made unless it was carrried out on a fair principle, with the consent of the natives, and under the sanction of the Government. The statement of the Noble Lord in reference to the dis patches of Captain Hobson, recognised not only the instruc tions which the Marquis of Normanby had previously issued on this subject, but were still more definite and decided in their character. Sach were the conditions of the treaty. The question was, whether the natives had given up their sove reignty without some guarantee of the land. He maintained that they had not, but that they only gave up their sovereignty on condition that the right to the land should be reserved to them. Such weee the facts of the original transaction. In 1812, however, he found that the Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) admitted that the treaty of 1840 was only a blind, and that the rights of the natives of New Zealand were so compli cated, that he did not understand how they should be treated. He did not blame the late Government; but the construction put upon that treaty was originally put upon it by Mr. Spain, who was appointed by Lord John Russell. The Noble Lord the Member for London directed waste land to be obtained by purchase, and therefore recognised the right of the natives to sell. It had been said that the New Zealand Company ac cepted a Crown title, and did not make purchases ; but such was not the case, for they sent out thousands of persons as early as May, 1841), to occupy land, for which they paid 170,0001. Why, the New Zealand Company had laid it as one of their claims upon the Government that they had expended large sums of money in the purchase of land there. The Noble Lord, in his letter to the New Zealand Company, clearly re cognised the purchases of the Company ; for he said that the Company had made large purchases of land, fully equal to make good any claims they had on the Government. The lands which the Company bought had been in the possession of the natives; and they clearly showed that the demand reads upon Government was altogether futile. The Right Hon. Gentleman quoted the letter of Col. Wakefield, to show that the purchase by the Company, and the title of the natives to sell were fully recognised. J That was not the only construction. The agent immediately objected, and having brought the natives before the Court he abandoned the proceedings. Surely, that was a course which no Government could sanction. Then he stated that the instructions of the agent had been over• ruled by the interference of Captain Hobson. And he states what those instructions were, namely, that it was incumbent on the agents to purchase the land before they disposed of it. Such were the instructions, but he was aware that the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) would not be ready to accede to that view of the question ; and when Lord Stanley came into office he was bound to abide by these decisions. —( Hear, hear.) Lord Stanley had been charged with all sorts of dereliction of duty, but the charge was altogether without foundation. Then he came to the year 1840, in which it was asserted that the Colonial-office had altogether neglected the interest of all parties. Then there was the question of the lands, which it was asserted ought not to have been conveyed, but he had shown every legal power had been secured, and there could be no fault whatever found with those proceedings. He was per fectly satisfied, from the whole of the proceedings of Captain Fitzroy, that he had done his duty. In the case of Warranaki, for instance, which was a case of reviving the duty to the slaves of the colony through the influence of Christianity,— ( Hear, hear.) The House would at least be satisfied that Captain Fitzroy had done all that in him lay towards the amelioration of the condition of the slaves in the colony. He now came to the other important settlements of Wellington and Nelson, and it appeared from the report of the agent of the Company that all was quiet. The same was the case with respect to Nelson. He had shown, therefore, that Captain Fitzroy had put the settlers in the possession of their lands. That was one of the most important points. Contradictory statements had been made to put the settlers in possessiOn of their land, but by the last dispatches it appeared that Captain Fitzroy had returned to use military force ia order to take possession of that district,. He, therefore, felt that all the allegations which had been thrown out were perfectly without foundation. He now came to a point much commented on by the Hon. and Learned Member—he meant the construction put by Lord Stanley on the 7th resolution of the Treaty. The Hon. and Learned Member said its mean ing was perverted by a sort of trick. It would be recollected by Hon. Members that that Noble Lord had always exp.essed himself anxious to give the settlers the value of the pro perty, but it seemed to him, that the Hon. and Learned Member objected to their having any land at all. But then the Noble Lord was charged as being the occasiort'of the . unforte ' , ate occurrences that had taken place in the island. He thought that a great deal of those transactions rested with other parties than the Noble Lord. He (Mr. Hope) would refer the House to the resolution, and the observations made thereon. He found that the resolution was to this effect, that the conduct of the New Zealand Company, in taking possession in defiance of the authority of the Crown, was highly irregular and improper. The observations were in a somewhat similar language. But, it was said, that these dissatisfactions arose out of the detention of land. He denied this.—( Hear, hear.) The dissatisfaction had to do with the titles to the land, and not to its detention. One case of a peculiar character had been referred to, as oc curring in the north of the island ; but this was not a quarrel between the natives and settlers, but between two septs of na tives. —( Hear, hear.) And yet this was the only case referred to by Hon. Members. The Right Hon. Gentleman then re ferred to several documents to show that the Company had professed to purchase lands from chiefs, who them selves acknowledged that they had no power to sell them. It would be utterly impossible to follow the Right Hon. Gentleman in all his details, or indeed to make any important portion of them intelligible. He said the fact was that it was quite impossible to make valid the pur chases which had been made in a foreign land without any serious or careful inquiry into the titles of the settlers. That the Company had nut inquired with proper caution into the titles of those from whom they professed to purchase, was proved in the inquiries instituted by Mr. Spain. He (Mr. Hope) did not say that the gentlemen who had en tered upon the adventure did so with a full knowledge that they were violating any rights. All he said was that they had not exercised due caution.—( Hear, hear.) He would pass over some of the accusations made by the Hon. Member for Liskeard, and proceed to state what was the actual state of the colony. The Hon. Member for Liskeard had re ferred to the reports of Dr. Evans as representing the state of the colony. He did not wish to cast any imputation upon the character of Dr. Evans, but he must say, that he had received later intelligence, which satisfied him that not in Wellington or Nelson had there been any violence inflicted by the natives.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") But in the Bay of I'lands there had been some symptoms of insubordination directed, however, against individuals, and not against the Go vernment. Capt. Fitzroy stated that the employment of fore 6 was necessary, not so much for the repression of actual violence, as to ensure future tranquillity and establishing the moral influ ence of the Government. The Ri g ht Ho n . Gentleman then proceeded to read dispatches and correspondence, from which he argued that the course pursued by the Government was forced upon them by the circumstances. Now with regard to the Government expenses, he begged to say that when the present Governor went out he found the colony in a state of bankruptcy, and had restored it to solvency. As to the appointment of Captain Gray, he begged to say that the appointment of that gentleman to fill the place of Captain Fitzroy was the best appointment that could have been made under the circumstances. The Hon. Member had called upon the House to pass the re solutions of the Committee in a modified form. Those resolu tions did contain much that the Noble Lord the Sreretary for the Colonies had often exressed ilk approval of; hut it w , ,uhl not be for him (Mr. Hope) now to enter upon a discussion of their merits in detail ; bat he found by a passage in a report of the New Zealand Company, that they had made a pur chase of a large tract of land, which they had found totally unoccupied, and took possession of without trou ble or opposition. So much for that part of the Hon. Mein bees charge in reference to the dispatch of Lord Stanley of the 12th of August. Did he believe that these resolutions would he beneficial to the colonists, no false pride would induce him to oppose the motion. He believed, however, that such a motion, if carried, would be most fatal to the colony, and he therefore gave it his unqualified opposition. lie believed, that by the measures which the Govern ment were taking, the aborigines of New Zealand would be the more readily brought to associate with the Euro peans, and those measures would be the means of abolishing a system which was grounded on the destruction of the abori gines of the colonies. On the motion of Captain ROUS, the debate was adjourned. SIR HENRY POTTINGEIt. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought up the report of the Committee upon the proposed pension to Sir H. Pottiuger. The report was received, and ordered to lie on the table.' The other orders of the :day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Half-past Twelve o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, June 17. Their Lordships sat to-day in a Committee of Privileges. The Peers present were the Lord Chancellor, the Earl of Shaftesbury, Viscount liawarden, Viscount Melville, Lord Camoys, Lord Castlemain, and the Earl of Devon. THE CRAWFORD AND LINDSAY PEERAGE The further consideration of this claim was resumed to-day. A considerable quantity of documentary evidence was put in, and the further consideration of the claim was adjourned sine die. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at the usual hour. SCOTCH BANKING. The Earl of RIPON gave notice that, on Monday next, he should move the second reading of the Scotch Banking Bill. SANATORY REGULATIONS. The Marquis of NORMANBY said that he had given notice of a petition to be presented this evening on 0 4lb- subject of sanatory regulations, but before he proceeded to present it he might mention a statement which had been put into his hand connected with the same subject, and coming from a particular body of men—the journeymen tailors of the metropolis. The subject, he might add, had been greatly discussed in Man chester and Liverpool. It appeared from that statement four-fifths of the clothes made in London were made in the lower classes of dwelling-houses in the East-end. He (Lord Normanhy ) had himself seen in houses of that character clothes which were evidently not intended for the classes of persons who were likely to visit in those places, and he believed that they were made up for some of the West-end clothiers. If the Noble Lord opposite would allow him, he should put put a general question to the Noble Lord as to whether the measure promised by her Majesty's Government was likely to be brought on in the other House. He should also wish to ask a question with respect to places of recreation, and parti cularly with reference to that piece of ground near the Peni tentiary—a place not far removed from their Lordships-- (Laughter) —and which he supposed might be applied to this purpose. The Duke of 13UCCLEUCH said that with respect to the first question he believed it was the intention of his Noble Friend in the other House (the Earl of Lincoln) to bring his Bill forward that evening; and as regards the piece of ground near the Penitentiary, it had been let some time ago to Mr. Cubitt for 3001. a year, and aeeording to the provisions of the Act could not be diverted to another purpose. LEEDS AND WEST RIDING RAILWAY. A NOBLE Loan presented a petition in favour of the Leeds and West Riding Railway Bill. Lord STANLEY presented a petition from the General Assembly of Canada, praying for some alteration in their com mercial relations with this country. LANDLORDS AND TENANTS (IRELAND) COM- PENSATION BILL. Lord STANLEY postponed the second reading of the Irish Landlords and Tenants Compensation Bill till Tuesday next. DEATHS BY ACCIDENTS COMPENSATION BILL. On the motion of the Earl of LYTTELTON, the Death by Accidents Compensation Bill was reada third time and passed. DEODANDS ABOLITION BILL. On the motion of Lord CAMPBELL, the Deodands Aboli tion Bill was read a third time and passed. Earl POWIS objected to the Bill. Lord HATHERTON said Canal Companies were in favour of the.measure, and that it originated from a deputation of their body, which met last year in London. The Board of Trade were satisfied with the measure. Mr. Gladstone had taken it into his own hands, and it passed through the other House without any objection being raised to it. After a few words from Lord DALHOUSIE and Lord Powis, the Bill was read a third time and passed. CANAL COMPANIES CARRIER'S BILL. On the motion of Lord HATHERTON, this Bill was read a third time and passed. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. _ The Bishop of CASHEL rose to present the petition of which he had given notice, with respect to Education in Ire land. After presenting a number saf petitions from several places in Ireland, against the present system of national educa tion in that country, he said that there was one petition to which he begged to call the special attention of their Lord ships. It was signed by 1,360 clergymen of the Established Church in Ireland, who earnestly prayed that some por tion of the public funds should be given for the schools in connexion with the Church Establishment. The Right Rev. Prelate then referred to the changes which had taken place from time to time in the documents which emanated from the Board of National Education, relative to the reading of the Scriptures, and contended that it was dangerous for Protestant children to aatend these schools. He then read the opinion of the late master, who had given up his situation at the London University because the pupils would not be per mitted to be examined in their knowledge of the Scriptures. This eminent man had designated this proceeding the " Anti- Christ of utilitarian unbelief." The Rev. Mr, Woodward had also pointed out the danger which attended Protestant children by this mixed system of education. He could men tion, too, the name of a gentleman whose name bad already been before their Lordships. He meant the Rev. Mr. Mackesey, who, in writing from Monkaland, on the subject of establishing a Protestant school in that place, to a neighbouring vicar at Clonmel, said he was favourable to the national sys tem in so far as considering it the next best thing when it was impossible to establish an Episcopal school. Mr. O'Connell had lately expressed himself against a united system of edu cation, and, in a most extraordinary paper, put forward by the bench of Catholic bishops, the youth of Ireland were exhorted not to attend any of the lectures of the national schools, unlesa they were delivered by members of the Roman Catholic Church. The only Society which had yet established a suc cessful plan of mixed education was the Church Education Society, who had founded upwards of 18,000 schools, and who annually educated 800,000 children, 32,000 of whom be longed to the Roman Catholic Church.—( Hear ' hear.) He referred to a case in which the p r i es t o f a p ar i s h in Ire land denounced the parish school from the pulpit, on account of the education pursued in it, and the very next day the school master was murdered in the streets of the town. Since the establishment of the Educational Board ignorance had increased instead of being diminished. From 1701 to 1831 education increased ; but from that time to the present it had gradually descended to zero.—(Laughter.) He referred at great length to the report of the Census Committee to bear out these state ments. Through that Board, which was supported at an ex pense of 70,0001. a year, they were indebted for the ignorance which prevailed in 1 reland at the present moment ; and, be sides, it had displaced, and rendered in a great measure una vailable, the exertions of charitable institutions founded for the promotion of education in Ireland. As a sample of the incom petent persons who were appointed to conduct education in the statistical schools in Ireland, he said a man, named Trim, who had deceived and humbugged some Protest persons as pro fessing their faith when it was found that he was a hypocrite— was appointed to the mastership of one of those schools. When incompetent persons were appointed to such important offices, how could they expect education to flourish ?—( Hear. ) He would therefore say that there was more chance of kindness from the Roman Catholics of Tipperary than they had from the Parliament of Great Britain.—( Hear, hear.) He con sidered that thorough education could never be carried out until they acted up to the spirit of the seventeenth report of the Commissioners who had been appointed to inquire into the state of education in Ireland, and again established the paro chial schools. The Earl of ST. GERMANS desired to make a few re marks on the speech of the Right Rev. Prelate who had just sat down. From his connexion with Ireland he was enabled to say that the proposition which had just been made to their Lordships was one which they could not assent to. The Right Rev. Prelate had found fault with the construction of the Board of National Education, but he forgot that the motley which was appropriated-for this education was taken from the whole community, and not from any particular sect; and he (the Earl of St. Germans) considered that all parties should be represented at that board. Great objection had also been made in reference to the reading of the Scriptures. Now, he contended that the Board of Education had used every endea vour to meet the wishes of all parties in reference to this point. They neither enforced the reading of the Scriptures, nor did they preclude their admission from the na tional schools of Ireland. They certainly pruvided that no child, whose parents objected to his being present at any religious instruction, should be present while such instruction was being given, and for that purpose they appo nted particular times for the communication of this instruction, different from the time set apart for the ordinary literary instruction ; but while they did so ample provision was made that all children should have such religious instruction as accorded with the wishes of their parents or natural guardians. It was rather strange, too, that the Right Rev. Prelate had objected so much to the reading of the scriptural extracts, for he found that the Bishop of Down and Connor had, in a sermon which he preached some time ago, denounced the reading of the Holy Scriptures without note or comment by children in schools. There was one circumstance which he considered ought to have considerable.. weight with their Lordships. The Pres byterians were not less attached to the Bible than the members of the Established Church; and it was notorious that throughout the whole extent of Ireland the Presbyterians had supported the present system of national education, believing, as they , did, that the free circulation of the Scriptures was amply pro vided for. There were 944 schools in Ireland in which the Scriptures were read, and 1,340 schools in which the scriptural extracts were read, but all the books which were used con tained a body of sound religious instruction. Time would not permit him then to read a few extracts from them, but he hoped to do so on a future occasion, and he was quite sure that their Lordships would be agree ably surprised to see the kind of books which had been so much denotteced.—( Hear, bear.) The Right Rev. Prelate had alluded-to Mr. Woodward. His opinions, how ' ever, might be quoted as much against the Church education system, which the Right Rev. Prelate had advocated, as against the Board of National Education. He was opposed to a united system of education, and he way also of opinion that if the main body of the clergy in Ireland could speak oat, they would be found to be in favour of the national system of educa tion at present in Ireland. The Noble Lord here recited the opinions of the vicar of Newry with respect to the state of edu cation in schools which he had visited, and which were to the effect that the children were well informed in the Scriptures, and were receiving a good education. He (the Earl of St. Germans) therefore held that the fault was not in the system of education itself, but in those who did not lend their aid to carry it out with greater efficiency, and that the assertions of the Right Rev. Prelate were incorrect. He considered that the statement of the. Right Rev. Prelate, that a Mr. Osborne had refused a site.feil. schoisl, was not unlike the conduct of other landowners. He held that the extraordinary statement that education had diminished during the last ten years was fallacious, and must have arisen from some misstatement on the part of the Board of Education. It was absurd to say that education had decreased, for great exertion had been made to disseminate school books, and to extend education in Ireland. He entreated the House to pause before they gave a consent to the proposition of the Right Rev. Prelate, for it would hava the effect of destroying the National Board, and would lead to serious consequences, not only to the Protestant but to the Roman Catholic religion. The Marquis of NORMANBY said he had excellent op portunities, during the four years he was Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, of becoming acquainted with the course of edu cation pursued in the schools, and could bear testimony to the good effects of the National Board of Education in Ire land. The Noble Marquis then read a long letter of the Rev. Mr. Mackesey, respecting his conduct in the parish of Monksland, in which he performed clerical duties during the temporary absence of the minister, and to his subsequent re buke by the Bishop of Cashel, at his visitation at Lismore, in which he positively asserted that he was so rebuked because he made some suggestions with respect to the schools in that parish. He was sorry that the Right Rev. Prelate had thought proper to allude to the circumstance again, because he believed their Lordships had been willing to allow the matter to rest with the explanation he had given on a former occasion, in behalf of the Rev. Gentleman. There was no other point upon which be wished to correct the Right Rev. Prelate. The Right Rev. Prelate was under the impression that the schools of the ;light Rev. Dr. Henry, of Armagh, were confined to the children of one sect only, but the Right Rev. Prelate was never more mistaken. The Earl of WICKLOW thought their Lordships' time had been too long occupied with this correspondence, considering that the circumstance to which it related was of a trifling and unimportant nature. But the Right Rev. Prelate had re peatedly explained the matter, and ho hoped their Lordships would hear no more of it. (Hear, hear.) Now, for one word on the subject immediately under discussion. Their Lordships would, doubtless, remember that when the national system of education was first proposed he did not object to its principle ; but he objected to its introduction then, because it went to destroy one of the most useful and beneficial systems of education that had ever prevailed in Europe. He meant the Kildare-street Society, which, at the time, was rapidly advancing in Ireland: The question was, then, what was to be done under existing circumstances. A more inju• dicious thing could not be done than to destroy the national system. Theoretically it was excellent, and if it were properly used he knew nothing that would tend more to advance the in _ _ terests of Ireland ; but unfortunately it was not so. Unfor. tunately it was decidedly opposed on its introduction, and chat opposition had been continued down to the present time. The result had been that the system had proved a failure, and so it would remain, until the Government consented to accede to the prejudices, if they would have it so, of the Church people, and placed the schools intended for the instruction of Protestant children under the control of the Church School Society. While acting most judiciously, most wisely, and most politi cally to a great portion of the Roman Catholic people of Ire land, let Ministers show to those connected with the Church of England in that country that they did not forget them. Let them do this, and they would give universal satisfaction to the people that were now arrayed against them, and they would at the same time show that they were not inflamed by a strong bias in favour of any powerful party in that country. Let them do this and they might rely upon it the people would begin to think that the great object they had in view was to hold the scales of justice with an even, steady, and impartial hand. After a few words in explanation from the Marquis of Non.- MA NBY and the Earl of CLANCAItTY, which did not reach the gallery, Lord MONTEAGLE said he was rejoiced to hear the Noble Lord, who had just addressed the House, bear important testi mony to the efficacy and practicability of the national system of education. The Noble Lord's testimony was of no small importance, because there was no one who had had better op portunities of observing its operation than the Noble Lord, and no one who was more disposed to discuss the question before the House with greater impartiality. It appeared to him ( Lord Monteagle) that the Noble Lord had by his excellent address completely overturned the studied and pains -taken arguments of the Right Rev. Prelate upon the subject. That was no small extent of religious instruction, comprising, as it did, extracts from the Acts of the Apostles, the Gospel of St. Luke, and all the principal passages of the Old Testament. He would now compare the system of the Kildare-street So ciety with the present system os national education, and their Lordships would at once see that the school in connexion with the latter Society was far superior, even in point of reli gious instruction,• to lhoseof the former Society. The Noble Lord then read the opinion of Mr. Beevers, the secretary of the former Society, to corroborate this opinion. He (Lord Monteagle) thought, that by providing support for the Church Education Society, they would be setting up a sort of anta gonism in education in Ireland, which would be attended With the most pernicious consequences. He was sorry - to • see so many as 1,700 of the Protestant, Clergymen of Ireland, who still protested against that system of education there. He knew the difficulties which the Government had to contend with, in opposing a request which had been made by so respectable a body of individuals. He thought, however, that they were partly themselves to blame in contributing to induce the belief, on the part of those persons, that on their accession to power they would either abandon the best system of education in Ire land or allot a portion of the public funds for the support of schoo!s in connexion with the Church Education Society. The working, however, of the system was the best refutation which could be given to those who were opposed to it. The Earl of CLANCARTY said that as he had presented a number of petitions in favour of the Church Education Sovicietcy,, he was desirous of giving his support to the proposition h had been introduced by the Right Rev. Prelate. Mac had been said derogatory to those clergymen who had oppose d ii the present system of education, but no one could onestl ° , 4o bin sincere feelings by which they were influenced. Th Pee l , 0 Lord then proceeded to quote the opinions of Sir R. of oas expressed by him, in 1839, against the present system tional education. Had not then (continued the 'Noble Lord) the clergy of the Established Church good gr ound to hop e on the accession of the Right Hon. Baronet so me changen a t be made in that system ? Sir Robert Peel, however, w a s alone in the expression of such an opinion. The Ri g ht Ho st Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department had a speech made about the same time, given utterance t o in don ould disapprobation of the present national system of educe.. Ireland. In conclusion he hoped the Government wiere sider what was their duty to the establish ed religion "" country. The Archbishop of DUBLIN said he would not e r t r , s o t t length into the subject, but would state some of the l . 's w_ eas his experience, which might have the effect of dissipating. s 08 of the misapprehensions which prevailed on the subjee.ta,,,seai had held his o ffi ce as one of the Commissioners of the tr e i i Board of Education under seven Lords Lieutenants ter, be Secretaries for Ireland, and during the whole of that perio d f p s had always considered it his duty to serve the Gevert?rol d an t comp time being to the best of his ability, so long t doped it the romise his conscience, and he had always considhi duty of those who held offices like the one he he PI aloof from all political parties.—(Cries of be When the present Government came into .Ir re e we e applied to them to state their intentions wit° their to education in Ireland, and their not deeiaring _of intentions for some time he considered one of the e!_nr st i e s apathy on the part of Protestants with regard to eau s sL i kt in Ireland. It was proposed that an additional gra.nt_7o-0, " Hear._D e 7 be made to the Church Education Society. Let tb e T te „ at sides what would be the immediate results of such D r o ol that. Its adoption would lead to the seces sion frost? 'I Quid w o of its Protestant, and of the most influential of it! no Catholic members, and two rival systems of e dneatt 0. be established in Ireland. He denied that the s yste n m Lr „„,t education had failed. If that mode of educatio n ha ve the exist, many large districts in Ireland would not two benefits of education afforded to them at all. To sePlinid systems of education out of the funds of the Staley : o ds. an Irish system of Government. It was totally on tb i v tion that the Scriptures were excluded from these sal: ol _ s o d the supposition arose child scholars not being f o reed .4, 0 001 Scripture, that no was compelled to read them t_r wee not to his parent's wishes ; but to sa that the Scriptureae' cod, eeri. read was untrue, as Scriptural le s sons, carefullyrlPheard used in all the schools. Anything that they b b o lo s to respect to Dr. Arnott's wishing to force the sc t the re ° the Scriptures was untrue, as he was of opinion all ot o f ing of them by children should be optional on the art 1,7 parents. He could assure their Lordships that 1 1 °.;adePt e he d taken place in the system or principles of eduel ttl° t sbieb {or except in the rules for the guidance of the teacher.!' oleo been improved from time to time, as the necessoitbsdbetehe the purpose of carrying it out with greater cffeetL a i n ess ot ii t said that they paid little or no attention to the 'T o wiu' o sim Board, and that they signed 'papers and doculu e t h e re c . knosving anything at all of their contents. Not a e' ee"l :fi g not be anhing more at variance with the truth, the issorest, of Trinityh c n ßoard ue College ink being dare in attendance,w ithout hi self and 0 , w ere t h e gaged in corresponding for days with v °olftiennu h lt i " i Yar re t r ':rft 'yt t ' lre country on the business of the Board. But t jafjog to tiblie only one of the many unfounded statements r e e t he P ions ' Board, which had, unfortunately, tended to Ott; the o.ttheir mind of England and Scotland on the subtlee t ° j a i, ai' d re schools of Ireland. Let the system base a fair ti t it r ia , i n the Lordships might depend upon its one day re , b a d demption of the Irish people. pre late who , Lord STANLEY said the Ri ht t he Ace ioos: just sat down had so completely answers. ec eded r h t l of raised to this system by the Noble Lord w h° the ti not that he should have felt it wholly unneeea sar h Y l, ° s t, ba": a ssae the Government to say a word upon the _,,„ su.e frore t- 5 fa r been for one or two remarks which had fall Ile , c' of t he Noble Earl and the Right Rev. Prelate hitr e stall° out from being insensible of the great value and ila.P e ° „rryil s , of services rendered by the Right Rev. Prelat_ie 'the ir e Bight this system of education, because he heli el r e es of t s b furr Y that system owed a great deal to the ser, ° „"ai, Ds. ' re a a soo Rev. Prelate and that distinguished istdiT c 7 hakPl er stee n t and he begged to assure them, that if t ',ithe u° fi i eda ra- , whatever to doubt that it was the intend° tent he f s a : to support and maintain the existing " 6 But Re v. tion in Ireland, they were m istaken' o r the hint t° sure neither the Right Reverend Gentleman n 4 not Murrays he had any such apprehension, audi t War eing tha't,--siote say anything to clear the doubts of other* ' t i e l , - ystet o ai ified had the hononr in the first instance to bring , nag n ,„ res Parliament, and had ever since given Is his oft r support, it would be inconsistent and main in a Government which had the sligrehis had aris en abandoning that system. He admitted that " s s attributable:no on the subject, and no doubt to that it s' to applictl, Government had hesitated to accede influential 10 unso.rthistentioo,.con, made to them by a large a nd f the Syste m to 136 of the Irish clergy to extend the working 0 ha d felt it lye Noble Lords must remember that Gssernnleu i ‘ e to o teod their duty to inquire whether it was Pra ctical) was a i l f l i t° system, as well as to ascertain whether the' tion for certain alleged existing abuses in the t he sist a & ill system. They did examine into the sverk i l ls d bee n 113s t aost there was fr, they did examine fully into the progress that oreoversEnd the national schools—they did examine, anxiously whether it was possible to in 112the -s grati t eio t-C is t ; e / j , having come to the conclusion that the system Was a" by day ir with fairness, that its influence was extending eq00.14, that the numbers educated in the schno c e ow wa _ ires sos , . creasing, and that the quality of the educe s t i he y t t e tt , they felt that they were justified in proposing , al.'"_ s ,ys but a large and liberal increase in the amount the since proposed, not a continuance only of the prev nf ion the r a l ;; Having come to that conclusion, they had increasett si iors 4 and if there was any doubt as to the fixed deteruitelees Vito the part of the Government, to maintain and et i d 3i 4 b , system of national education in Ireland, he e, ° , 0 ,. to h t ,t that he had lately seen a letter from the Prime Mint le d Lord Primate of Ireland, wherein it was distinctly eta g there was no such intention on the part of the Govertt tbe r " Noble Earl who spoke late in the debate had stated,. t `Tre t , e ,, s ; was no hope of an alteration taking place amongst tu e oest'',, tants of Ireland on this subject, because it involved 1 Aeei '"; of Protestant principle. Now, if he thought this sP cien valved a question of principle, not only would be aba ° ,, n riea t e f system, but he would become one of its strongest oPsrtots No, it was because he thought the fears of the Protbeore th e Ireland were founded in misapprehension, and in th l d ete' this apprehension would be erased with time, be It— a s n port• mined to give the system his best and most hearty on e P e h ot The Duke of WELLINGTON confessed that % cat ion , th e of his life he was averse to all systems of mixed e ' a ide 10 41 his opinion was changed while he sat on the other, s upr, t he House, and ever sinec that time he had strennonslYatien all the motions that had been made for the angM ent w ith 50 , 11 0 1 grant, and had always endeavoured to induce O W o f nO t ' ' r ieii he had any influence to countenance the er t st em ,„ , as s ca loco education in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) H e 7 . 15e 0 a ct' into execution every measure, when once tl eg al 01 ;10 a law, whatever might be its consequences 25,8„,escienSrias went. Now he applied that maxim to these c'el' a pprespe come forward to the number of 1,700, to call fo r ; n eietP te rr tion of the public tunds to the Church Education f the Go tb ,t national education had obtained the suppor t t hoog h , t fses ment, the Queen, and the Legislature, an d s tele a ' the' r however they might Continue to denounce the l e ss en ter-hall and elsewhere, with their voices, Ol eo they A sub' speeches, and their writings, they should , l ike gTiobta it home to their own parishes, carry into effe ct ' a do jacts, a measure which had obtained the see °°l legal authority in th e l an d.—( Hear, hears) sa for tbt, o us ht Lord DACRE m ove d th a t the order of the u Y t it be reading of the gam e -l aws b e discharged, an d tha on again on Monday, the 27th inst. Their Lordships then adjourned. sanction B 16,sS. r is PARLIAMENTARY -i i , fo r, TUESDAY JUNE 17. „tents '.O r or s. The following Bills, with 'further am ell “„g were referred to the Sele c t Committee on St a.- 1 Londonderry and Coleraine Railway. - Londonderry and Enniskillen RailwaY. , jan d). . 0 ,f 0 Great Southern and Western Railway (Ir'' , OP` Vi a, ------ t p, ~ The Glasgow, Garnkirk, and Coatbridge '''' read a third time and passed. • Standing Orders Committee, "That, in the case of the Epping„ltSisperi.,f°7oll' reyi ' petition, the Standing Orders ought to ' That the parties be permitted to proceed WI Oi d oe f ° JI Resolution agreed to. NOTICES GIVEN AT THE PRlVAT„,,,,te s a t tr, d sq /. —Resolution Monmouth and Hereford Railway,— e.- 0 , 51 ,0 ,:re, Group ( P.) adjourned till Wednesday, J.,., 01 1 1 ,:pc,_b t it f 4 5: North re-comm and Ribble Navigation P„ o eV",„ ( 01 Jo l ° Committee onitted Bill, Friday' J: O 4 L' e scig' Eastern Counties Railway (Cambridge, mund's Extension),—Committee on NIL 2', at twelv, 0 1 '11 ° P' !tO O On Saturday last, a specimen of in 13%, r i fe our seas, called the" Angel Fish," was caugl4,—tooli",wil,""eiii Sands. Immediately on being taken, it vo id at oll - 00 is, fish. It is of the squalus, or shark genus, 31 7. 1 ,'Crol e° ol; the northern seas. It is the opinion among "" 1": of fish does not spawn, but brings forth its You ng. n ee (P . O ii ° ,ol , we think, erroneous, arising from the circurestst o s h OP always retreating into the stomach of the Pa r z elj b ,as 3° danger; and hence the voidance of the Yo ung —Cambrian. BIRTHS. t ect,'' ton -square, borough -street, n o If s i t au . ,at 9, Upper Chat On the 13th i 0 •k-square, 08101 5 , 1, the 13th inst.,at II d MN. Speed D -par fl e Ham Longman, W TI.° , 1 dal 0 , • i a . 7 nessi tnottsf.cao,aitntit.s.ishoo,aenllr., di o al f edyy a 11:fouups he still-born oio 1 i , Greo illii, Cu O rr n ey ti , ie Es l 4 3 . t , h of in a st s . o , n in . Abingdon-street, the -f A s°l3 { t oent u . cs q,, ° kELisnio O rills.cto r : l onotl t .fnh h o,ae e sf ll l a3 3 ndt t ni h al, toi i g n ifn s i a: l ies ,. ro, a .n t fi l l i e i 1 l l i a n d g y d o o n f , .1% 1 1 . Curtrs.. li to l ':' Ci sicis t :ooso o, /hi the d l a 4 u t g h ht i e n r s . t., the lady .. &Ulm A 0 11• of v . ae lif• '' n gll . Of f. On the 14th inst , at Woodberry Devi"' the 'e l f. On the 14th hist , in Kensington-lug,t?',l dougie Goodere, Esq., of Lincoln's Inn, barrister, °I Rev " ____-----.---r----- , n 0"" Esti to lk - 11' On the 1 • inst., atet./i/YLLI).• 13„jaini of the 0,1 inst., at Brighton, Jobilt daughter daughter off o l t 4 ' t ß h ie j l - 1 71 Gould,. t iss Eliza Mary Mason, younges John George Mason, of Walton Bectory, reh, On . the 1 3th ' t 't tl arish cbu ',, to r c Hinde ' • me " a le P , Esq.. of the Bth or King's Begilrent,v.too, 0, -•' (") In rnsburY, flog g uo to , 0 , ' IS " a St. 1 n_squ are, ' Downing, Esq., of Euston-place, 1 , ..u5t0 rr y, Jackson, - late John po 3 oungest daughter of the ,rolot, Montague -street, Russell-square. ..11, J• des On the 12th ' inst., at St. dames s, * ' Clerken” . 0 e both All , ~ of Wissett Lod,,.e Suffolk, to Eliza all , , 11 0 laughter` of Mr. George Biggs• IA Williatn nowt daughter of W. Robarts, On the lAth hist ,at litusliarn, nue—' bila, Y' g res,airgef,,Bop, Pout . tiory.ett 8a.,,, Es q ., of Slung!', Bucks, to Matilda Theop Esq., of Burnham• Xll+%L• On the 12th inst., in Burton-crescent, Peter 5W10,134111. O t i the 12th► inst. at Struan Nouse, Ilaveratocl:4P Samuel Boxill, aged 91 _On the 15th 'inst., 'William 3latthiesSerl, SC I . ' late of iierne- hill, aged 60. - P ise6 of Chester On the 15th inst., John Willis, Rog., Kennington. onnabg, " Rev. On the 15th inst., at the Rectory, Bls~►orth' -- ,ev. Oliver Lodge, rector of that parish. Of 14 511Y1 3,t7 ofuewoifiity (11 e, 112, ;Strand. Printia, at Tlt Seavo MOS. th Strand. in the Pre cinct of the h Middlesex, Wednesday, June.18,.3345: 1 I 1 1 S 9