The Sun. — London, England, 1850-05-24 00:00:00

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Cg io% ef , j ear /00' or 0 0 IN Icy c c: c oy° o p) r jo.,l' (fl e co tOr io e Sior I A 0 11 ° l e i(' e lf be , 0 0 1 , he 03 e 0 , de s.,:i , see el 13° 1 gee 6 IP° the el e OO g 01 t y t so b ,f 9r o3 ,,hiovt,ri ill twr.it the 0 r by to pro °0 ,oa re a go c i o s P er tl, l ne t° tbe e jogo' 4 Doe ao,, f , e P r e be vita r ree c i pro" o ne _ re , fil ~,eO3,- ~' o af re d oe It sr4 fe , p i t! if j (` i , • e co ,e 0 age W a 01 e tp o r die , • seo,,,f n brs io a. iY jt r o bo t 'a e rlr • : ), , 0. S" by` hi tter ed ° rei se tt- c:1 , t or de 4. jeer' go o to o : P (3() la w) 0 0l ~, ilea O.• ..0. 4 • _ r e ve :1 fore ry Leg _ i d se tt 1,P .1 ;1!:) Seno 10 $7 to o af 4r.) b te u r tf r:eteeirred the fi rs t overture o f F rance - with coldness; accepting the good offs-, cat Feeece for the completion of the business, was the ct truet of the Go 7ernrneet to France straightforward, putting cordiality !aside? In the first piece it was not cordial; in the next t_t_ssas not s t ra i g h t f orward, otherwise the caeastrephe kn ow not h ave occurred.—(Hear, ' rear.) I d o not &now what the Noble Lord thinks of this. Every night the Noble Lord is informed by gentlemen around him that he is a Minister free from responsibility to Perlia nlent• That almost makes a man believe that he is irre- Eponsible. The Noble Lord has been in office for the the diplomatic occurrences of that period—her Majesty's Plenipotentiary kicked out of Spain—(Hear, hear) — next, the Austriaa Ambassador disappears from London ((Hear) —suddenly the French Ambassador goes.— ' e ar.) Not long since the waters of the Hellespont Were disturbed, and even the Turkish Ambassador gets into a ne rvous state.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) In addition to thi s, nobody knows where the Russian Am _ s i sador i s at the present moment. We do not know W ether he is recalled, or whether he remains to adorn Zs i .t society o f which he is so great an ornament an d i n ' el l he is so j us tl y popu l ar . Th e Noble Lord, re membering a ll these remarkable diplomat i c circum ofl;Fes, and th at t h e G overnment h a d b een i n a ser i es di plomatic scrapes from the moment he took office, no doubt felt that the country was reconci'ed to these un fortunate contingencies by the recollection that our with werful n e i g hb ours i n France were on t h e b est t ermso : ns, and tbat, wh were our differences with e other powers of Europe, atever the French people had re tried,a under every form of government, the cordial thin of England.—(Hear, hear.) But, I think, when p Noble Lord at the bead of the Government per ceives that our late demonstration has succeeded in de r ri Ving US of thi s sole compensation for the mischiefs of °qr diplomacy, that ev e n at this critical hour of seven O'cl ock, and no t w i t h stan di ng the silence of the other he will ri se and give us some assurance that we ha ve yet one ally lefc.—(Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL—The observations which the 110 n• Gentleman has just made are the best proof that Could be given of the wisdom of the advice of the Noble Lord the Member for Hertford, that this question should n ot be debated till Hon. Members had had time to truse the papers laid on the table. If the Hon. Mem r bad had even a glimpse of the contents of these P % Pers he could hardly have fallen into the serious r e e r . r ors which have occurred in the course of his speech• l ir e e v il or o e n i o g u a rable Gentlemnn expressed his surmise that Secretary had not referred to the conven eOf April. The object of the Noble Lord was to th °s , that the statement made by General Lahitte th at the promise made had b !en kept, was unfounded "-that ale the Noble Lord has dine. The convention uded to by the Honourable Member for Bucks is dtecl the 18th of April. On the 23,1 of April Baron in r ° B made that announcement to the Greek Govern ment and to Mr. Wyse, which, in the opinion of Mr. 3 ' Se t suspended and put an end to fn. a time the funs- W fi s of the negotiators. In that interpretation Mr. tle might be right or wrong. The argument of the ° u'e Lord was to show that he was right in having coarsere to coercive measures. If he was justified in that k s u r'e, it is obvious that the convention of April must e 've arrived at Athens toe late; for it was on the 233 of ', l Pril the decision was come to, only five days after the d am of the convention. The Hon. Member for Bucks sZ ld not understand why the Noble Lord did not explain the the Convention of the 18th of April did not conclude h ad business. If it had not appeared to us that Mr. Wyse :" b een mistaken with regard to Baron Gros's announce b ent to the Greek Government, then stress would have hh e " laid on the convention of April; but the statement e ma de precluded the necessity of laying any stress upon to Whether Mr. Wyse was right or wrong in that in 1, Pre atton will be matter for future argument. The Hon. ,s'ettaber seemed to wonder that there should have been legotittiona at Athens at all. From the first the clues. aP e n was to be settled at Athens, not by the English Situ! but by the French sending them a negotiator of ik(l and prudence. The first thing the French lambas t or sent to this country did, was to agree that the egotiation should be conducted at Athens. The pro 'arta carried into effect on the 18th of April was an have ter-ught of the French Ambassador, and would af, been highly useful if Baron Gros had not taken the s P he had done, and would have concluded, probably in ?tisfactory way , th e se t t l emen t o f t h e ques tion. With en" entering into any general discussion of the question tc Present, I am anxious to say a few words with respect Ztee explanation I gave on a former occasion. Having en t ,,engaged in attending a Committee till three o'clock, se . s° not read the dispatch of General Lahitte. I had 1, ' 1 a general statement in the newspapers, that the D ren ch Minister of Foreign Affairs had written a dis rsteh recalling M. Drouyn de l'Huys, but I had not I :ad the dispatch. What I had just come from reading ref the dispatch of Lord Normanby, giving an account eetilase:onversation with General Lahitte. When the wi t , )° . Gentleman opposite asked me the question an statement ad been made, I could not do better thanshotl the purport of that (lis ta, state . y ;If 1 4. I stated that, in consequence of the displeasure ; : French Government at the conduct of her Ma it Government Government respecting Greece, they had thought e ne cessary to rec a ll their a m bassad o r. I went on to tY that t h e French Minister for Fore i gn A ff a i rs h a d t ed t i r to Lord N orman by th a t th e re t ur n o f M. Drouyn . 11 41 must be considered as entirely natural, since, kiff `'ng been sen t h ere spec i a ll y f or t h e affair of Greece, e se E the negotiation having failed, his mission had Celled its termination. It is right I should state that s iY ti dispatch received to-day from Lord Normanby, he "es that though he believed General Lahitte to have e l ' ) "Pressed himself, yet, as General Lahitte does not frontlet making such a statement, he could not hold elt Vren e h Foreign Minister to the words which he had e Use of. I stated what I gathered from the dispatch ° v . Lord Normanby. I wished to state that the French GO - had recalled their ambas-ador Crew displeasure , 1 , 1 " e English Goveroment, yet there bad bleu word; - General Lahitte which crewel to imply that t slit were not so serious as that bare fact of the t e r would lead one to sullesse. With respect to any p e r statement of mine, I can only say I answered the esie„ asked me. When the Hon. Baronet the Member 1 , 4 Radnor asked me if I had a copy ef the dispatch, I sj i l' fri ll ed I had not; and in answer to another Hon. Gen f an, I said it had been read. The statements, there fore' that that I then made were the whole truth as far a 3 I i s te -- (Cheers.) As there is to be no formal discus s') 0 1 the question at the present moment, I regret the fhos,.rvations of the Hon. Member for Canterbury, as I tii iT e! c e u t i ln ie ci s ency is rather to increase than diminish the of the question. In any discussion hereafter f or n all take my full share in it, and of the responsibility; th Noble Lord who conducted the negotiation was Q ll ys . or gan of the Government—l, as the head of that (eb' r ntnent, consider myself to be mainly responsible.— , e , e re.) I may state that there have been occasions lef "'eh mediation and good offices have been of use— to r 4. Medaition"j—there are cases in which b et t'°ffieee have been the means of maintaining peace se teen two c oun t r i es . Th ere i s th e case of Naples, s at e e r a a demand of o urs was enforced by coercive miss base!' suspended at the request of the French Go vern whose good offices were accepted and successful. tvrosnother case, that of Mexico, the position of the a sept Co untries was reversed. France and Mexico ofq - , on the eve of hostilities, and the good 1.6 E! of England were successfully employed. I not now enter into other matters. I agree with the sari• Memb er f or Canter b ury, that if t h ere i s an y ex pl a . e etri ° n or proposition we can make to the French Go -11,141°134 Consistent with the honour and interest of neal a nd, which may remove the present unhappy mis letis-ratsliding, and restore to a state of harmony the re ecr"ns between the two countries, no effort of the Go -I°Btl ent shall be wanting, and no opportunity shall be e ase a lght of to make it.—(Cheer s.)ucks, Notwl t ith rust we shall standing the h m , rt ion of the H on . Member for B 1 , 4 2 Credit fo r h av i ng acte d w i t h cor di a li t y an d since shY Boldi ng t h e stat i on w hi c h I h o ld , I can tru l y say as a p no political occurrence ever gave me so much pain te et er Present unhappy difference with France. On sisit" than one occasi on w e h a v e s how n a desire to con teerit wishes an d i n t eres t s o f th e G overnm ent of n et " B e esl will not say when the interests of England te eti °PPosed to our doing so, but when the popular 's opi- Ou t ,this country was against yielding to France. stre e is to show forbearance, and to see France a he r ? Power on the Continent, fully convinced that upon tepe -38e ssntiallY depends the peace and prosperity of Eu --(Cheers.) itamne d iscussion was here terminated, and th e .SPE ER put the question that he now leave " On which . A DULTERATION OF COFFEE. U lm ANSTEY then rose to move, pursuant to notice, or fk or the sa k e of the public health, the improvement trader" r evenue, and the encouragement of the fair sh eeit i l t was expedient that the laws now in being ne put in force for the repression of offences ri ed gat those laws which regulated the sale of coffee th at P r evetsted its adulteration. When he had brought l lot subj ,„ 70 on a form e r o ccas ion under the notice of the of th - c - the Right Honourable Baronet the Chancellor ;t i es :s 4 ehcquer (Sir C. W oo d) had said he would take bringhis serious consideration, with the view of PhtiE c t d i g Y 1 some measure to remedy the evils com gneettw• , But the Right Hon. Gentleman had subse eheep,.., s aid that he did not intend to propose any tapp": 111 the existing law. From that it would be te mple d ( that th e R i ght Hon. G ent l eman did not con of t:te i nterposing any obstacles in the carrying out ma a is w as it at p r esent stood with respect to that ist o * There were s everal considerations to be taken in t h' e nollnt in that particular, which were indicated health terms of his notice. There was first the public La therelionLam was the loss of a quarter of a teenf°4 m to the revenue—and finally, the foldedencourage th.a to th e f rau dulent at the expense lutenc; trader. For all these matters the Right mer e Gentleman Gentleman and his colleagues, the f o nd ( see fe„ - s . ,Of the present Government, were responsible. fore t );, 1 ",„,,0P0n refring to the returns which were be !ta. et t — •uollse, that simultaneous with a great increase la th e growth of coffee in the colonies,• and an increase rael:lfuettit:rpeo:btaadtion into this country, there was a great An d tan in the amount of duty paid upon the article. been a corresponding decrease in the tete"- °I the consumption and the amount of the Of the • derived from it, at a time when, in consequence t4l rellp e l l ac au g” Made in the tariff, a great increase had kaki ein the consumption of almost every other eN„.e. Yet all this time there had been a great in eitZoit!t the consumption of an article sold under the °eller 'Rine The Right Hon. Gentleman the Chan atom '4l.,ne Exchequer in that matter, he conceived, T he let'" " te way of that which the law required of him. t rN io . us s : G e n ston Learned Member then referred to the va -14140 ''s of Parliament which had been passed for the th e se of re gulating . various trades, and preventing fi rs , of other articles for those specified'. ","° he quoted—namely, the 43d of George anyOf ebnihit ed, under certain penalties, the sale uhlterated matter. A subsequent Act, LONDO N, however, in the reign of George IV., had allowel to certain trades the right of vending such an article, meter particti!er re , trietion:eL; by an itjeriter traders foe the use of poorer cuetealere; who might wish to avail themselves of the cheaper substitute. But with this modification, the Commissioners of Excise were obliged under those Acts to cnferce the penalties laid ugainst every class of dealers who came under the ope ration of the And this had been always done, with but two exceptions. Those who adulterated tea were prosecuted; those who adulterated pepper had been sub jected to penalties; and in the same way with respect to other articles ; but it appeared to him that by a certain Treasury minute, to which he would have to refer, par ties were encouraged t.) adulterate coffer. In April, 1833, a minute had been passed, founded on a memorial from a party praying for exemption from the conse quences of a prosecution instituted against him for mix ing chicory powder with coffee. Oa that occasion the Lords of the Treasury had discontinued the prosecution. On another occasion, in reply to the Commissioners of Excise, they had in some sort authorisei the sale of chicory powder. Arad in April, 1841, when the pre sent First Lord of the Admiralty (Sir Francis T. Baring) was Chancellor of the Exchequer, on the occasion cf a memorial presei,ted from the coffee-dealers in Liverpool, praying for a change in the law resr eating that trade, it had boon set forth in a minute that the mixing of chicory with coffee was not considered a fraud on the revenue, and certain prosecu tions commenced had bee❑ stopped. It had been sup posed that as long as the chicory paid the proper duty there was no loss to the revenue. Now, it should be supposed that some strong infl tepees actlated the Chen- ccjllor of the Excl.equer when he allowed the lair dialers to be put down, the revenue to be injured, aad the public health to be endangered by that practice. The Hon. Member then went into some statistical statements, showing how the revenue from c off e e and foreign chicory duties had diminished since the year 1830. Foreign chicory paid duty as well as coffee; but when it was ascertained that no duty was imposed on home-grown chicory, its cultivatioa was carried on to a large extent in this country; and from the year 1840, when the last Treasury minute on the subject had been issued, there was a double advantage derived from the adulteration of coffee by chicory. It would be found that for three months in the present year, as compared with a cor responding three months of the previous year, the loss to the revenue on the coffee duties amounted to about 36,0001.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Mem ber having referred to some authorities to show the increase in the quantity of chicory lately grown in this country, and having entered into calcula tions of the consequent lo,s to the revenue, asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how he could come down to that House to propose new taxation, when he aban doned an actual amount of revenue to the extent of 250,0001., and oid not endeavour to realise a probable increase of the same to the amount of half a million. In reply to what the Chancellor of the Exch: quer had said on a former occasion, he would observe that if a party wished to purchase coffee at a fair price let him do so, and pay a tair price for it as coffee; and if he wished to purchase chicory at a fair price, let him do so also, and mix the twe articles then according to his own taste. But even the article grown and sold in this country as chicory was in itself adulterated to a very considerable extent, in consequence of the demand f'r it. He bad the authority of parties well acquainted with all the de tails of the trade for stating that that which was called chicory was largely adulterated with what was called common radd:e, a kind of earth like Spanish brown, and inferior to Venetian red. Another party, to whom a complaint had been made with respect to the colour of coffee, had said it could be itnprovcd by being worked up with soot.—(Hear, and laughter.) All the adultera. tions to which he had alluded were under the sanction of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he had letters not only from a holesale but also from retail dealers, stat ing that in consequence of the Treasury order which the Right Hun. Gentleman persisted in maintaining, they were unable to cope with the unfair trader. The extent to which the adulteration was practised was evi dent from a comparison of the quantity entered for home consumption in the present and the past year. In the quarter ending April last there was an increase of im portation, the amount being 4,236,9991 b., while in the corresponding quarter last year it was only 3,659,5261b5. The consumption. however, decreased for while in 1849 it was 9,386,2551b5., in 1850 it only amounted to 7,465,3841b5. Notwithstanding this, there was no doubt that the consumption of the article called coffee had gone on increasing. What was the case with the revenue de rived from tobacco? It had gone on increasing for some years past, and still continued to increase, because the Chancellor of the Exchequer had pursued in that case, and to this day continued to pursue, the very course which he refused to adopt in the case of coffee; he had taken steps to prevent its adulteration. The decreasing number of prosecutions, and the increasing revenue, showed that the system had proved effectual in checking the illicit trade. He did not ask the Right Hon. Gen tleman to bring in a Bill to give effect to the law. He asked him only not to stand in the way of the execution of the law. He asked him to listen to the representations from the merchants and traders of London and Liver pool, and other places, and from all those interested in growing coffee, and to revoke the Treasury order. He asked him not to prevent, but rather to direct the Com missioners to execute the law established by the 43d Geo. 111. and 3d Geo. IV. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not disposed to deny that the facts stated by the Lion, and Learned Gentleman were, to a great extent, true. Beyond doubt the consumption of coffee had fallen off, and there had been an increase in the revenue to a cert in extent; and it was equally true that coffee was mixed with chicory and other articles. But it might be queetioeed whether that falling off in the consumption was owing to the admixture of chicory. He had very great doubts on the subject. Tee fact was that several other articles had entered into the consumption of the IL - 0/ A°. The great reduction which had taken place in Oa, price of teas of ordinary character must not be lost sight of. There were two grounds on which Parliament might justify such an interference as that proposed by the lion. and Learned Gentleman—first, when the adul teration was ealcul,t d to injure the, revenue ; and, secondly, when it was likely to prove prejudicial to the public health. Now the Hon. and Learned Gentleman probably, might not like the admixture of chicory with coffee, he did not like it himself, but he never heard that it was prejudicial to health. It was remarkable that, while many memorials had been presented on the sub ject by the sellers and growers of coffee, he had heard of none on the part of the consumers. The lion. and Learned Member had also mentioned other mate rials used in adulterating coffee, and amongst them peas and beans; but he certainly had never heard that either were unwholesome food. Measures to prevent the adul teration of tea were justifiable, because it was known that the spurious material introduced was sloe-leaves dried on copper-plates, which was deleterious. Tobacco, again, was an instance in which the Legislature thought it necessary to prohibit adulteration, on grounds of re venue. The present, however, was a case in which the public must decide for itself, and if the dealer sold a bad article he must pay the penalty of losing his customers. He had on former occasions read letters to the House, which he would not again weary them with, which showed that a certain admixture of chicory with coffee promoted the sale of the article. In declining to ac cede to the motion of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman he had tho authority of precedent, and was merely following the example set by three or four of his predecessors. He had received a deputation from Manchester of gentlemen interested in putting down the sale of chicory, and what was their statement ? They said that the price of the cheapest coffee sold in the berry in Manchester was 4d., while ground coffee, which one would think should cost more, was sold at is. a pound, which made it clear that the price paid by the mass of the people was below that at which pure coffee could be sold. The proposition for levying an excise duty on chicory grown in this country might perhaps be a fairer proposition; but the subject had been carefully considered, and it was known that the opposition to an excise duty would bo so great that it was not thought expedient to attempt it. Then came the question, whether he had put in force the 43d George 111. and 3d George IV., and in con nexion with that point he must remind the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that these enactments were not intended simply to prevent adulterations, but to pre vent such adulterations as were calculated to affect the revenue. The mere suspension of the Treasury order would have no effect. Was he, then, to undertake a crusade against all the sellers of coffee, and send ex cise officers to their shops to endeavour to learn whether they mixed it or not? This was rather a serious request to make, and he had a very strong suspicion that if ho were to act on the lion. and Learned Gentleman's suggestion, and institute such a system ofdomiciliary visits, in the course of the next month the House would be inundated with petitions. But this was not all. It would be exceedingly difficult to prove the fact of the mixture, and no one knew better than the lion. and Learned Gentleman how imprudent it was to undertake prosecutions upon insufficient evidence. He had asked the officers of inland revenue whether any ready means existed of detecting these adulterations, and the answer was, that neither by chemistry or any other way could they ascertain with any degree of accuracy whether chicory was mixed with the coffee or not. Informations might be laid, but the result would be nothing but vexa tion, without any practical result. With regard to the question of reducing the duty on coffee, he could only repeat what he had already stated on a former occasion, that he must decline to enter into any engagement as to what articles might be the subject of future reduction. Mr. CARDWELL said, without asking the Govern ment to adopt the course proposed by the Hon. and Learned Member for Youghal, there could be no doubt that the present state of the coffee trade might very pro perly form the subject of discussion in that House. Seeing that the consumption had decreased since 1848 from nearly 10,000,0001b 5 . to 7, 500,000 1b 5 ., i t was not surprising that the coffee trade should feel anxious to represent their case to the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Right Hon. Gentleman had ob served that no memorials had been presented from the consumers, and that caveat empto r was t h e pr i nc i p l e to be applied to this case. That implied that if purchasers were on the alert the evil would not exist. I; there fore, the evil did exist, it was clear that th e purc h asers were not alive to it, or they would either ha ve purc h ase d their coffee in the bean, or applied to the Right Hon. Gentleman. What they complained of was, that chicory and other substances should be consumed as coffee— that the dealers traded upon the ignorance of t h e poor, and sold them a nother article instead of the one they asked for. lie had been informed by a gentl eman who was well acquainted with the subject, that the scale of adulteration usually adopted was that coffee sold at Is. per lb contained three parts chicory and one part coffee; that sold at Is. 4d. contained five parts chicory and three parts coffee in eight parts; and coffee at Is. Bd. per lb contained equal parts of each. He thought Ithat was a very undesirable state of things, and three remedies were suggested. One was the placing PA ex- E SUN, else duty upon chicory; that wes c)risith red. o bj e cti o n. able. The next was one that the Right lion. Geetle man had wry properly alluded to with ceuti.,e, t',o giv;ng a stimulus to the consutep ion of ceffee i y ►'.'- ducing the duty. That he hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman wculd shortly have it in his power to adopt, although he would not give any pledge on the, subject. The course suggested by the debate was, whether the Right Honourable Gentleman was disposed to give to the Act of Parliament an interpretation which he was right in saying it did not originally bear; these powers were, he believed, given not protect the public, but the revenue ; but the fair trader said, " I am in the same interest as the re venue, and I call upen you to exercise its powers in my behalf." The Right lion. Gentleman had very properly said that the sending an Excise officer into every coffee dealer's establishment would be attended with very great difficulty and objection. Favouritism would come into play, and it would bo found that one fraudulent trader was overlooked while another was prosecuted. The 1 views he took of the question were entertained by the Chamber of Commerce of Liverpool, whose sympathies were altogether with the coffee dealers; but they did not think it expedient to petition Parliament f•r ►he adoption of the remedy no•w under consideration—they thought with the Right Hon. Gentleman, that it would be exceedingly difficult to give the proposition practical effect, and that its result would ultimately be to drive the trade into the hands of the systematically fraudulent traders. In the justice of these opinion ho was entirely disposed to concur, and he was not surprised that the Right Hon. Gentleman should withhold his concurrence from the proposition. He hoped, however, the subject would receive the consideration of the Right Hon. Gen tleman, and that he would be able to devise some means of redressing the grievance which was now very gene rally complained of. Mr. MOFFAT2 said the interest; cf the coffee-pro ducers bad been altogether lost sight of. The Right lion. Gentleman said the colonial producers were pro tected by a duty of 2d. a lb. against the foreign pro ducers, but that was only true up to the last five years, and now there was no real protection to the colonial growers. He thought the statement of the Hon. Gen tleman the Member for Liverpool must have convinced the Right Hon. Gentleman that the large consumption of chicory naturally influenced the consumption of coffee. He believed that of the 10,000 vendors of coffee in the country, at least 9,500 mixed chicory with it. He trusted when the question was being considered by the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, that the interests of the pro ducers would receive due attention. Colonel THOMPSON suggested that the way to avoid purchasing chicory for coffee was to buy it uuground. Mr. ANSTEY would not trouble the House to divide upon the question. The motion was negatived without a division. MANNING THE NAVY. _ On the question that the Speaker do leave the Chair. Captain tIARRIS, who was very indistinctly heard in the gallery, called the attention of the House to the necessity of devising some means of manning the royal navy in time of war. Mr. Ward had stated in his evi dence that the number of men required for the manning of the navy in 1848, including ships in commission, ships in ordinary, and in progress of completion on the stocks, was 112,000 officers, men, marine?, and boys. Of these 76,000 were petty officers and seamen The ques tion was, what facilities were there, under the existing laws, for obtaining that supply? The Act sth and 6th Win. IV. asserted the right of the Crown to the ser vices of every seaman in time of war for a period of five years, and provided that a certain sum as bounty should be given to volunteers. It was found, however, that that was insufficient, and other powers were had recourse to—namely, impressment. He (Captain Harris) had ma turely considered the question fur several years, and hai lost no opportunity of submitting his views to the House. He had arrived at the conclusion that the best and the frankest way of dealing with the subject was also the wisest, and that the system of impressment acted injuriously for the interests of the service and the coun try. He was ready to recognise the prerogative of the Crown, and.he believed the mercantile service was also ready to contribute to the service of the Government and the support of that navy on which its own exist ence depended. The effect of the impressment was to drive thousands of their best seamen into foreign ser vice. He doubted whether, in the event of another war breaking out, they would be able to impress as they had formerly done—the opinion of the whole country would be against them. The plan he begged to sub• mit, and which would of course be much more effi- ciently carried out by the Board of Admiralty than by any other parties, was that of recognising the right of the Crown to the services of all seafaring men in time of war for a limited period of service, depending on the nature of the war and its probable duration. Every seaman in the merchant service would be bound to serve during the period the proclamation of the Crown was in force. After that limited period of service the seamen should obtain a protection, and the best ma chinery for calling into requisition the services of these men would be the ballot; and the registering of seamen would form the groundwork from which the selections would be made. He proposed that the seamen should have tickets granted them, which it would be necessary for them to produce when called upon. As the Govern ment had recently expressed its determination to give a grant of 30,000/. to the Merchant Seamen's Fund, he an ticipated that there would be every disposition on their part to promote the views of the Government. He pro posed that the ballot should be taken four times in the year, and there should be arrangements at the stations abroad by which the commanding officers of the ships requiring men would be supplied. He anticipated that there would be no difficulty in that way of raising 25,000 men, and he calculated the number of volunteers at 20,000 more. Ho did not think, taking into account what had been recently done, that much more was re quired to make the royal navy a popular service. Both the present and former Boards of Admiralty had done all in their power to promote the comfort of the men. Much had bcea don; since 1792 in increasing tho quantity and providing a better quality of provi sions, and abolishing the two h inyan-days in each week, when the men went without meat. They had also got a supply of fresh meat and vegetables, whenever it was practicable, and the best medical attendance. They had also obtained more accommodation bAween decks, and the able-bodied seamen had bad an increase of about 4s. 61 per month in their pay since 1797. They had also now got an allowance of one-third of their pay while abroad, while in former times they could get no money when on a foreign station. Another great advantage was the diminution of corporal punishment in the royal navy. At the same time it was well known that even in times of peace it was difficult to man the navy, and he had himself seen line-of-battle ships lying at Spithead and obliged to go to sea without the full complement of men. It was also well known that many of their best seamen went into foreign service— more especially the American. It was said that the men were better off in that service, but he did not think that opinion was well founded. He found that the following was the scale of provisions in both services —the British seaman received llb. biscuit, the American seaman 2 oz. more ; the British seaman j pint spirits, the American the same; the former lib. fresh beef, the latter lilts.; of sugar the British seaman bad 1 oz., and the American seaman 2 oz. ; the other articles supplied were pretty much the same. In salt meat the American seaman had certainly the advantage, and he wished the Admiralty would increase the allow- ance of salt meat from ills, to lib., as there was a con siderable loss in the boiling of salt meat. With that exception there was, in the article of provisions, no sub stantial difference between the two. Whea they came to wages, there certainly was a difference. The British warrant-officers, first-class, had 901. per annum, and the American. 140/. ; the second class, 751., and the second class in the American service, 1201. ; the third class in the British service, 611, and in the American, 105/. ; the British first class petty officers had 21. 12s. per month, the American, 41. to 3/. 15s. ; second class Bri tish, 21. Bs. 9d., American, 3/. 2s. 6d.; able seamen (British), 11. 16s. Bd., American, 21. 10s. ; marina (British), 11. Bs. 2d., American, 21. ls. ad. ; landsmen (British), 11. ss. ; American, 11.175. 6d. Then, on the other hand, the American seaman had no pension for long service, although he bad for wounds. In the British service there was a pension of sod. per day, or 131. per annum, paid in whatever part of the kingdom he re sided. Should he continuo in the service he received his pension in addition to his pay. He would take the liberty of suggesting to the Government the policy of increasing the wages of the British seaman to some mo derate amount. He thought the first-class petty officers ought to be increased to 31. per month, the second to 2/. 10s., and the able seamen to 21., and the others in the same proportion. He suggested also the propriety of restoring the pension to the widows of warrant officers, as he considered the doing away with it a very harsh measure. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman concluded by submitting his proposition to the consideration of the Government. Captain BERKELEY complimented the Hon. Gen tleman on the manner in which he had brought for ward his motion, and could assure him that not only the present biit preceding Boards of Admiralty had taken up the question in a proper spirit. He was, further, proud to say that the men had now no occasion to go back to the merchant service, as on being paid off they had six weeks' leave of absence, and could then return and join any ship they thought proper. With regard to not being able to man the navy, he could assure the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman that the board had taken the greatest pains to hive a reserve in hand. Further, he was happy to say, as regarded the men themselves, that they were proud and happy to serve in the royal nary; and, as regarded the question of im pressment, he found that there was only one petition pre. sented against it, and that was in 1760. In that petition it was said that although they objected to impressment, yet, if it was found to be indispensable to maintaining the efficiency of the royal navy, they would submit to it without a murmur. He was no advocato for impress ment exeept in cases of very great necessity, but he thought it would be unwise to deprive the Government of the power of resorting to this system if they deemed it necessary to do so. He believed that the seamen themselves, under extreme circumstances, would not be unwilling to submit to this system. The motion was then withdrawn. EXPENSES OF COMMISSIONS. Mr. J. STUART, in rising to call the attention of the House to the return No. 669, of 1848, of the number of Commissions of Inquiry appointed since 1830, and the expenses of each, said that the exigencies of the orders of the House required that not only the expenses gene rally should be stated in these returns, but those also which related to all incidental matters connected with the immediate subject referred to, as far as could be ob tained. It appeared that no fewer than 91 commissions of inquiry had been issued by successive Governments between the years 1830 and 1848. According to the re turns that had been laid before the House the expense to the country, of those commissions of inquiry amounted to 638,0001. By reference to documents much more authentic than these returns, he was sorry to say, they had the most satisfactory evidence from individuals exck. F° IT) A Y mined before Committees of this House, to show that this sum Se Lis not one-fou' th of the exoense to which the country ha I been put by those Commissions. According to the return which he held in his hand, and which , res printed in the vacation of 1848, this statement was fully corroborated. Let them take, for example, one commission, which was the tidal harbour commission. The expense of that commission, as it appeared by the return, was 1,7791., but he found by the report of the committee upon iniscellexeous expenses, that for print ing alone, during the limited period of three years, the sum was 5,1171. When they found this to be the case, what value could they place upon the statements con tained in returns of this kind ? Another commission was issued in 1845, called " the Metropolitan Railway Termini Commission." The return set down the ex• pease of that commission at the modest sum of 5021. But the report of the committee on miscellaneous ex penditure stated that the printing of this commission for two years amounted to 2,8571. There was a gross de gree of carelessness evinced by these returns, which should not be passed over without the marked notice of the House. The result of the whole of this report showed that the country had been put to an expense above 2,000,000 L by these commissions of inquiry. One of the witnenes examine 1, a gentleman of greet experience on the subject, stated that these 91 commissions of inquiry. since 1830, were one great cause of the immense increase of the expenses for p, inting, and he added this remark able statement, that the sanitary comtnission was likely to entail an expense about 60,000/. upon th© country fur printing of Colonel SIBTHORP said he had taken a great deal of trouble to procure accurate informasi....o upon the subject by moving for certain returns with very little effect. He concurred with the Hon. and Learnel Member in think ing that there were great inaccuracies in these returns which Lai boon laid before them. Indeed, nothing could be more inaccurate, unfair,.and unsatisfactory, than the returns of the expenses Oahe commissions since 1830. Sir F. BARING apologised for the absence of his Hon. Friends connected with the Treasury, who were not aware that this subject would be brought under the con sideration of the House at so early an hour of the night. He apprehended that the gravamen of the offence was the expense of printing not being included in these returns. Mr. STUART—Ye e ; stationery and clerks also. Sir F. BARING wa s a f ra i d, in the a b sence o f hi s Hon. Friends, he would n o t b e a bl e to go i nto d eta il s. H e should have understood, by the order of the House, that the expense r a l was no separate account k e p t f ur stat i onery; t h ere was a general e was not to be included. There printi ng an d stat i onery. He was, ne estimateo f printing for however, informed that regulations had been recently in conju nc ti on w ith th e H ome was intended to include in such returns issued Department,b t y h e t e by expenses Twrehascuh r yi ,of f printing,. If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would direct attention to the subject when the officers connected with the Treasury were present, he would no doubt receive every satisfaction on the subject. SUPPLY.—NAVAL ESTIMATES. The House then went into Committee of supply; Mr. BERNAL 'in the chair. Sir F. BARING said that the supplemental expenses under different beads, now put into the hands of the chairman, included the original estimates as wall as the supplemental. The first vote proposed was 883,999/, for the deficiency in naval stores, for building machinery in steamers, and for the bedding of vessels placed under the command of Captain Austin. Mr. COBDEN regretted the absence of the Hon. Member for Montrose on the present occasion, as he knew that that Hon. Member had prepared a statement in reference to these stores, and had given notice of an amendment to this vote. He complained of the custom adopted by the Government of proposing the heaviest votes on the first day the House met after the holidays. This was an inconvenient course, and ought to be put a stop to. The practice of the Committees above stairs was altogether different, for, considering it unlikely that Hon. Members would be back so soon after the holidays they adjourned until Monday next. This was also the would not persevere in thi s course . case in respect to the Easter holidays. He hoped that ELL asked whether thi s was a thesupple mentary s Government o G v e r r n E m c e n ll t vote, or whether they were proceeding from where they had left off ? Mr. BERNAL said that the vote was taken from where they had left off. Sir G. PECHELL said he was satisfied that not one half of the vessels now in ordinary would ever be of the slightest use to them, and he would recommend that the smaller class should be put up to auction and sold. In many cases the building of vessels was considerably less than in the public yards ; for instance, the Water Witch, one of the most effective ships on the coast of Africa, was purchased at the rate of 12/. a ton, when the other vessels of the same class were built at an expense of 201. a ton. He complained of the enormous expendi ture of coals in the navy steamers. Ho was told that by a due economy there might be a saving of 201. a day in each port. Sir F. BARING remarked that Members could not complain of being taken by surprise, when the Govern ment determined upon proceeding with the estimates that night. There was a large attendance of Members at five o'clock. When the Honourable and Gallant Offi cer complained of the expenditure of its stores, he should have mentioned that the re h a d b een a reduction in that item this year of 390,0001., and upon coals the re duction had been 54,000/. As to the Water Witch it had been purchased at second hand, which was a very different thing from the cost of a vessel as originally built. Sir G. PECLIELL explained. He gave credit to the Government for having made large reductions. Mr. FITZROY asked upon what ground the reduc don in the expenditure of coals had been made ? Sir F. BARING replica that it had been made by the diminution in the expenditure, and the reduction in the price of coals. Mr. DISRAELI did not agree in the recommendation of the Hon. Member for the West Riding that Ministers Mould not proceed with important business the first day after the holidays. li e would not recommend that the motion of which notice had been given should be post poned, because there was a possibility of its being car tied; whereas it would not be so if the Financial Refor mers were present.—(Laughter.) Lord J. MANNERS hoped the motion would be pro ceeded with, as they would thereby be spared another night. The vote was then agreed to. The next vote was 3 39,8391. for the improvement and repair of naval establishments. Sir W. MOLES WORTH proposed to stop the works at Keyhatn and at Brill Point, and therefore moved to reduce the vote by 140,0004 Sir F. BARING did not consider it necessary to enter into a detail of the works at Keyham. The Committee had recommended that they should be proceeded with gradually,and in conformity with the engagements which the Government had formed. He thought it would be very unwise in the Government to abandon works that had cost half-e•million, and which, in case of war, would be very useful. Mr. PETO did not think that the Government ought to stop the works in hand. They ought to expend the money, and stop there. Mr. COBDEN said the basins were only intended to be joined to the factories for the purpose of re pairing boilers, and putting in machinery; but no private builder found it necessary to have such a basin, and he could not see what necessity the state had for such magnificent establishments. In voting this 120,000/, they were only advancing a step to wards the completion of the establishment. The opinion of the Committee, who had reported on the subject, was that if those works were for the first time now proposed, it would never advise the House to sanction them. But when those basins were finished there would be required not less than 80,0004 for wages for artificers, and, in addition,. 30 per cent, or 40 per cent. for incidental charges. The question then was, whether they would stop where they were, or whether they would make up their mind to incur an expenditure in wages and charges of 100,0001. or 120,0004 With all the basins and fac tories which they had at present they would be able to repairengines and boil ers of vessels to an extent of 2 00, Sir F. T. BARING said there was not one farthing taken in the vot e eit her for factories or machinery, but 00 tons. only to complete the basin. Nothing would be done in that respect without coming to Parliament. Admiral BOWLES regretted to find Hon. Gentlemen opposite oppose a proposition which was of such vital importance to the state. Mr. MACGREGOR supported the vote. Mr. BRIGHT did not see the necessity that there was Private builders did not requirefor t e proposed e o s f t a t h h l a i s k h i m n d e ! t. ' Mr. CORRY contended that those establishments were absolutely necessary to the safety of the country. Mr. COBDEN repeated that it would be more economical to have the machinery nude by _ private con rwin then agreed to—as was con tractors. After a desultory conv e r s ation, Sir Sir W. MOLES WORTH, upon the assura nce w hi c h his had amendment, been given b yg, cons ente d to w i t hd raw andt r he r also the next vote of 27 , 6801 . for medi c i nes an d me di ca l stores. .vo ß t a e as On the vote of 175,6981. for miscellaneous services, Mr. COBDEN said that of this 'rote he perceived that 100,000/, was for the destruction of ships of war and piratical vessels. He should be glad if the Right Hon. Gentleman could inform the Committee of the details of that sum. Sir F. T. BARING was understood to say, in reply. that it was for head money for pirates captured and destroyed on the coasts of Borneo and China. Lord D. STUART expressed his astonishment at the increase which had taken place in this vote—the amount last year being only 20,0001. He doubted much if a single "ship of war" had been captured or destroyed. Sir F. T. BARING said that the whole of the trans actions had appeared in the newspapers, and he did not therefore deem it necessary to detail that which all ware probably acquainted with. If the Committee wished to have the names of the vessels to which the prize money would attach, he was quite prepared to read them. Mr. COBDEN wanted to hear something about the pirates themselves, for he doubt6d if they were pirates. nr if the transactions were legal. The very fact of almost the first measure of the Government this session being a Bill to abolish those Acts which entitled parties to head money in certain cases for the capture of pirates, was a proof to him that the law never applied to such cases at all. He should like to know if the predatory tribes of Borneo had attacked or moleited any English ship. Although they were going to pay for the destruction of 500 of these savages, it appeared that not one Englishman had re ceived a wound, or even a scratch in the encounter. The fact was that the savage:, whilst returning to their own rivers, were intercepted by our ships of war. No sum mons was given to them to surrender —no inquiry was made where they had come from or whither they were going, but they were fired upon, and our steam-boats ran them down with their paddle-wheels in a ulanuer that VENING, MAY 24, 1850. was absolutely frightful to read of. The sea was strewed with the bodies of these poor people for miles; and then, w!isn this butchery had been performed, and these help less creatures destroyed—for they had not bows and arrows, nothing but a sort of blow-pipe with which to defend themselves—down came her Majesty's Govern ment to this Christian assembly, and asked for 201. a head for slaughtering them! He asked what was the ground upon which thsy had committed this massacre? What proof did they possess that these people had in any way molested our commerce? He had looked through the papers connected with the affair, and he had said that these people bad been murdered without a tittle of evidence that they had ever molested us—with out evidence that would have convicted a man in this country of petty larceny. But the largest sum was for payment of head-money for the destruction of pirates upon the coast of China. But where Wa3 the proof that they were pirates? Cot. SIB am tiP—They were Free-traders.—(" Hear, hear," from Col. Chatterton.) Mr. COBDEN—What was the fact? Somebody sent word to Hong-Kong that a p'ratical fl 'et was on the coast of China, and a steamer was then dispatched, which fired upon them from a distance at which they were powerless. These people too were said to be pirates, but we had no proof of their having molested one uf our vessels on its way to Hong-Kong, Shanglisi, or any ether Chinese port. He objected to the people of England being taxed for any such purpose. lie thought we hed no right whatever to go about offering to be executioners for other nations. He (Mr.Cobden) doubted the legality of the claim, because the orders of the Admiralty were to the effect that English vessels ,hould not molest native vessels, unless English ships or English commerce was attacked. Mr. HENRY DRUMMOND was not able to say why the Government repealed the statute; but when the Honourable Member asked for proof of these Bornean pirates being really such . it was enough to say, let him look for any record of voyages or travels, printed or in manuscript, that called them anything else.—(Hear.) Yet now we are to be told they were only innocent Free-traders.—(" Hear," and a laugh.) They dealt in men and women, to be sure—(Bear)—and their last act of trade, betore they were attacked by Sir J. Brooke, was that they seized upon a body of parsons who were really trading, and put them all to death. It was true they carried on war among themselves; the tribes upon the coast were of a different nation and religion from those in the interior, who were able to trade, but these pirates would not let them.—(Hear, hear.) What was the proof of their being pirates? The judgment of every competent court; and the House of Commons was not, fitted to set aside the judgment of the courts in Singa pore and elsewhere.—(Hear.) Because Sir J. Brooke was carrying on most successfully and meritoriously a most thriving colony, which a certain person wanted to turn into a matter for his own aggrandisement, taking shares and making Sir J. Brooke a joint jobber with him, that man had been an anonymous slanderer of Sir J. Brooke for the last three years —(Hear, hear) —and that was the truth of the matter.—( hear, hear.) As to our having no right to attack persons unless they were pirates against our commerce, why then did we send Lord Exmouth out some years ago against pirates who never touched any person sailing under an English flag? —(hear.) He (Mr. Drummond) hoped there would be an opportunity hereafter, as was promised, of going into the matter fully, when Sir J. Brooke's salary should be before the House. Mr. COBDEN said the Hon. Gentleman showed much more ignorance of geography than he did in reference to the Seribas and Sakaran tribes. Sir J. Brooke, the Hon Gentleman said, was carrying on a prosperous co lony; but if the Hon. Gentleman meant Labuan, he would find that Sir James Brooke resided at Sarawak, his own territory, 300 miles distant, for eleven months in the year, for which be received, as Governor of that colony, 2,0001., a year, and as Consul, 500/. a year. He (Mr. Cobden) had never seen Sir J. Brooke, and had no personal feeling, therefore, on the subject; but he op:. posed the grant on public grounds, because he did not wish the people of this country to be burdened for such a matter. Mr. PLO WDEN had lived in China for several years; but if the Ladrones of the present day were equal to those of 1809, they committed the greatest atrocities. The Honourable Gentleman was therefore quite wrong in suppasing these pirates innocent traders. He (Mr. Plowden) could bear witness to the atrocities of the Chinese pirates, and to their daring also, as he was on board the Daedalus, as an amateur, when they had possession of the upper part of the Canton river. Another instance that happened the same year referred to one of her Majesty's vessels, a sloop of war, commanded by Captain Wells, which was attacked by a fleet of 40 piratical junks, who, however, received a ter rible thrashing.—(Laughter.) The chief of the pirates in those days, as the Hon. Member says has taken place in these, was created a naval officer, with high rank in the Chinese fleet. Up to that period the pirates had possession of the inner passage of the Canton river, where they seized the boats and crews of Indiamen, and subjected them to the most atrocious punishments. The Malaya on the coast of Borneo ware equally bad; in proof of which he needed only refer to the wreck of the Alceste, during the embassy of Lord Amhurst; and to the conduct of the crew of a prahu, on board of the Se marang, ship of war; all of whom were hung up at the yardarms of the ship, or hal round shot tied to their legs, and were flung overboard.—(Laughter and cheers.) Mr. BRIGH r deprecated the indulgence of merriment and exultation at such a narration. He argued that the cause must be very bad when the facts referred to in its support were dated so far back as 1810. Mr. I'LOWDEN talc' 1816. Mr. BUIGHT had never heard of a vote introduced by a statement so bald end unsatisfactory. The question was whether the evidence in this case was sufficient to satisfy courts of justice? If so, why was it not laid be fore the House? lle hoped, therefore, that his Hon. Friend would move the postponement of the vote until suillei , .nt explanations were given. The proceedings tinder SirJ. Brooke, and on the coast of China, horrified the public; it was, therefore, absolutely requisite that inquiry should bo made into them. The Legislature professed to be very Christian, and yet it was now pro posed to grant 100,000/. to reward indiscriminate slaughter, without any proven cause. Sir F. T. BARING deprecated the speeches of the [lon. Gentleman in stigmatising honourable and gallant officers without a just cause. The Act of Parliament required the decision of a court of justice on every single case, to the effect that the party applied against was a pirate. That was a better tribunal than the House to decide such a question.—(Hear.) Taking the Borneo case, it appeared that Sir C. Rawlinson insisted upan minute inquiries upon the first application, and finally decided that the parties were pirates upon the fullest evidence only. The Right Hon. Gentleman pro ceeded to read extracts from this evidence in support of his proposition that the Saribas who had been destroyed were pirates. Besides the high legal opinion of Sir C. Rawlinson, he had also the opinion of the residents of Sin gapore as to those parties being pirates. Whatever might have been the slanders heaped on the British sailor, they were never before charged with inhumanity. (Hoar.) If the Hon. Member went to a division he would do so with every authority of weight against him. Colonel SIBIIIORP should support her Majesty's Ministers upon this vote.—(A laugh.) The speech of the lion. Member for Newport (Mr. Plowdea) had not satisfied the Hon. Member for the West Riding (Mr. Cobden), nor did he suppose it would satisfy his "Man Friday," the Member for Manchester (Mr. Bright.)— ( Alen lauteiter, and cries of '• Oii, oh," and" Order.) — It was high time that a stop should be put to this out of•doors kind of humanity which was put forth upon the hustings. His should cordially support the vote. Mr. COBDEN —The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring) had spoken as if some ono had attacked the army and navy. Now, if any one had passed a satirical refection upon the service it was the Right Hon. Gen tleman himself, who had brought in a Bill to abolish head-money.—(flear.) What he (Mr. Cobden) blamed the service for was, not that they had done this, but that they had done it without orders; and what he asked him was, whether he was correct in saying that the ad• miral on the station had issued the order he had cited, and that this order had been confirmed by the Govern ment at home, namely, that our ships of war were not to attack the natives under the plea that they were pirates unless they had attacked British vessels? Sir F. BARING said, the ships were sent specifically for the purpose of this expedition by Sir F. Collier, the admiral on the station. The orders under which they acted were to be exceedingly careful as t%) the parties whom they attacked, but his (Sir F. Baring's) im presiinn was that the Hon. Member hal misunderstood the order. Mr. COBDEN.—Then that was another reason why the Committee should defer the vote. The address to Sir J. Brooke to which the Right Hon. Gentleman re- E.rrcrl was signed by a very small minority of the Eu ropean population of Singapore, which consisted of 190 persons. There had not bean one single proof that the pirates had ever attackei English vessels. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the payment was nr&red by Act of Parliament. There was no maxim; of escaping from the obligation of paying the heid money so long as the Act of Parliament was unrepealed. Lord J. MANNERS deprecated the statement of the Hon. Member for Manchester, t hat lion. Gentlemen sit ting on that (the Opposition) side of the House were disposed to cheer every unprincipled and bloo d y senti ment.—(Hear, hear, and cries of " Oh, oh.") . n After a ficv remarks from Mr. PLOWDEN, explana- tion, and Mr. ConnEN, Mr. MACGREGOR said, it was with great reluct ance that ho opposed any vote brought forward u rwardby the G overnment —(Ch ee rs from the Oppositym) ut he could not support the vote now under consideration. He believed the time would come when Sir J. Brooke would be - tried in this country for the massacre, and that gen thmen, at the next election, would hear more on this subject than they would desire. The O'GORMAN MAHON-was surprised that Hon. Gentlemen on the Ministerial-side of the House should be allowed to describe their opponents as the rewarders of murderers. The li.mse had a great reputation for twaddle, which he trusted would nut be perpetuated by the sanction of such proceedings as had taken place during the present discussion. Colonel THOUPSON still remained unconvinced that any English vessel or subject had en molested by these pirates. did not hear any tangible attempt to state the name of any vessel or individual that had been at tacked, and he could not believe that any such had over taken place. Ho did not think that the lion. Member for Newport WAS entitled to all the inferences that had been drawn from his statement. It was not an unusal thing for the captured to turn round upon their csptors in the way he had described, and they wore not entitled, on that account, to scenic them of blood-thirstiness. Ho thought the , Honourable Gentlemen (11c. Plowden) said that the captain of a British man-of-war—a Christian man, who would haw, Celt himself injured if he had been called an infidel—had ord , ?red his captives to he run up the yard- arm, and that such as were wounded he ordered aliot to be tied to them, and thou thrown overboard. It WAS a Acme to this country that in the HOUR! of Commons such transactions should have been stated to have taken plate and should not have been met with universal repro tr.l,tioa.—(Hear, hear,) He cou'd detest himself f,,r ever h.ving kept company with men who could quietly bear of such transactions and still call themselves Christians. But the public, he trusted, wou'd judge of them, and it would soon be seen whether the opinion of the House or that of tha public would finally carry the day. He should like to ascertain whether the transactions w;th China were in accordance with the orders of ti:e commander on that station or not. He knew something of Sir F. Col lier; he happened to have served under him, 'lnd against pirated too. That warm-hearted British sailor had given out orders contrary to the transactions that took place; and it behoved the House to know by whom those orders were contravened. Mr. S. HERBERT thought the whole of the motion was founded on a misapprehension, and saw no reason for postponing the vote. The prize money was allotted according to Act of Parliament and the decision of the Admiralty Courts, and if Hon. Grtntlemen opposite did not by address to the Crown attempt to invalidate the decision of Sir C. Itawlinson, they could not refuse to vote the money. Without denying the merits of Sir J. Brooke, he wished to know whether it was true that he was engaged in mercantile speculations at Sarawak? Mr. HAWES said all his information was directly opposed to the reprt of Sir J. Brooke being engaged in ►mercantile speculations. lie believed it was because Sir J. Brooke had abstained from entering into mercan tile speculations that he had incurred the enmity of those with whom he was formerly alli,d. The AT rORNEY-GENERAL said he had advised Sir J. Brooke, not professionally, to abstain from ap plying for a criminal information to refute the'imputa tions against him. Sir J. Brooke was a public servant, and his opinion was that the House of Comtnons was the place in which charges against him should be preferred. After a few words from Mr. HERBERT and Colonel THOMPSON, The Committee divided, when there appeared— For the vote ... 145 Against it ... 20 Majority —125 The House then resumed, and the Chairman reported progress. The Stamp Duties (No. 2) Bill was read a second time. The Exchequer bills (8,558,700) Bill was read a se , cond time. On the motion of Sir W. SOMERVILLE, the Mu nicipal Corporation (Ireland) Bill was read a second time. The'House having resolved itself into Committee on the TIMBER DUTIES, Mr. BROTHERTON moved (at half-past one o'clock) that the Chairman report progress; and The gallery was cleared fur a division, but none took place. Mr. MITCHELL then moved a resolution—" That it is expedient that a drawback be allowed on wood im ported for the purpose of ship-buildiug." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the Chairman do now leave the chair. Nothing in his opinion was so objectionable as a system of draw backs; and a great merit of the policy of the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth was, that it put an end to them. It was suggested that the measure now proposed should be confined to vessels surveyed by Lloyd's. Of 10,000 vessels registered there it would apply only to one-third; and to obtain the boon, parties must come under the regulations with respect to survey at Lloyd's, involving much expense and trouble. It was admitted that no check could be applied to boats, barges, and the smaller class of vessels not registered at Lloyd's. They were the fittest objects of the proposed boon, which must therefore be regarded as of a most partial character. If they were to recommence the system of drawbacks, he dirt not see why it should be limited to timber used in shipbuilding. He did not see how he could refuse to extend it to timber used in mines and for railway sleepers. He did not mean to say, if it could Le ho nestly done in the way proposed, that the loss to the revenue from its adoption would be very serious. But he believed that it would open a door to a large amount of fraud against which there was no adequate means of protection. He admitted that the timber duties were in a most unsatisfactory state—(Hear, hear)—and be hoped that Hon. G. , ntlemen would not imagine from anything he had said that he was opposed to a revision of them, although he certainly was not inclined to add to the confusion by the adoption of the present triotiou.—(Hear, hear.) He begged to move tbat the Chairman do now leave the chair. Mr. CARDWELL thought that the Right Hon. Gen tleman had at least entirely justified the vote which a majority of the House had come to on a former occa sion; because the arguments he had used to-night were as dissimilar as possible from the arguments which were formerly used on this subject.—(Hear, hear.) The Right lion, Gentleman had said that he did not see how he could resist the extension of the principle to wood used in mines and in railway sleepers if the present motion were agreed to. The cases were not at all aaalogous. The sole ground upon which the Ho nourable Member for Bridport rested his motion was that, having subjected British shipping to free competition with foreign sh i pp ing, the Legisla ture ought to remove the impediments which operated against that free competition. The shipping of foreign countries was allowed to come in free of duty, but they imposed a duty upon the raw material of which those ships were mad?. This was an anomaly, and the only one of the kind which was to be found in our tariff.— (Hear, hear.) But the Right lion. Gentleman said there were difficulties and impediments in carrying it out. Why not allow the lion. Member to bring in a Bill, and if, after looking at it, he should find that it did not pro tect the revenue, and that he could insert no provision which would enable hies to do so, then it would be time enough to, oppose the measure?—(Hear, hear.) Mr. MITCHELL said, that the Chancellor of the Ex chequer bad to night laid down the rule that he would permit no fresh drawback on any article, whereas in his budget spe. ch he had distinctly pledged himself to agree to a drawback upon timber, provided it could be done without loss to the revenue.—(Rear, hear.) He (Mr. Mitchell) denied that the measure would either open a door to frauds upon the revenue or exclude the smaller class of vessels from its benefits. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex plained that what he had said in his budget speech was, that though he was himself opposed to the system of drawbacks, yet, after the strong opiuion the House had expressed on this question, he should feel it to be his duty to reconsider the matter ; but he did not say whether he would agree to it.—(Hear.) Mr. WYLD and Mr. J. L, RICARDO briefly supported the motion. The Committee then divided on the question that the Chairman do leave the chair, when there appeared— Ayes ... ... 50 Noes ... ... 19 Majority ... —3l The House accordingly resumed without proceeding with the resolution in Committee, and the remaining Orders of the Day having been disposed of, the House adjourned at a Quarter past Two o'clock. COURT CIRCULAR. OSBORNE, MAY 23. The Queen and Prince, accompanied by his Royal Highness the Prince of %Vales, her Royal Highness the Princess Royal, and the younger members of the Royal Family, arrived at Gosport about five o'clock yesterday afternoon, and crossed to Osborne in the Fairy royal yacht, commanded by Lord Adolphus Fitzclarence. Her Majesty and his Royal Highness were attended by the Countess Gainsborough, Lady in Waiting, the llon. Miss Cavendish, Maid of Honour, Nlajor-Getieral Wetnyss and Colonel Sey mour. Equerries in 'Waiting, the lion. Colonel Grey, Sir James Clark, Miss Hildyard, Major. general Biwles, and Mr. Birch. The Queen and Prince took an early walk in the park and grounds of Osborne this morning, and his Royal highness the Prince of Wales and younger members of the Royal Family, walked and rode in the park. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, and his Serene Highness the Prince of Leiningen, attended by Sir George Couper and the Baroness de Speth, are expected at Osborne this afternoon. Se i re e n r e Duchess- of Gloucester on Royal n the Highness the Prince uc of L s eoi of Leiningen, nt and visited his her Royal Highness the Wednesday evening, at Gloucester House. The Duchess of Kent was attended by Lady Anna Maria Dawson and Sir George Couper. Highness the Duchess of Kent, and hi s Serene Her Royal Highness the Prince of Leiningen, attended by Baroness de Speth and Sir George Couper, left Clarence House, St. James's, at ten o'clock yesterday morning, for the Waterloo-bridge terminus, and tra velled by the London and South-Western Railway to Gosport, en route to Osborne, on a visit to the Queen. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Gloucester visited her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cam bridge yesterday at Cambridge House. A Cabinet Council was held yesterday afternoon at the Foreign-office. The Ministers present were Lord John Russell, the Marquis of Lansdowne, Sir George Grey, Viscount Palmerston, Earl Grey, the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, Sir F. Baring, Sir John Hobhouse, the Right Hon. H. Labouchere, and the Right Hon. Fox Maule. The Council sat two hours. Earl Grey, Sir George Grey, and the Right Hon. H. Labouchere arrived in town yesterday. A deputation from the Crown Estate in St. Pan cras had an interview with Lord Seymour yesterday, at the Office of Wood.; and Forests. The deputation included Mr. J. G. Harding, Mr. J. C. Harnden, and Mr. C. Greene, honorary secretary, and w asa nd c-_ commie(' by Sir Benjamin Hall, Birt., a Lord Dudley Stuart, 11. P. A. deputation from Gabriel, James's parish, including Mr. John George Waugh, Mr. G. F. Urling, Mr. T• A'p hor ec i tett d , interview wit and Mr. Joseph Brown, had an Seymour com panie d at b the y s i r same D eL time. acy The deputation and mr. t , ionwasac: Evans, _ C. Lushington, M. P. Reason—the proud prerogative which confers on —The Floral man the exclusive privilege of acting and conversing irration ally. —Eliza Cook's Journal. ROYAL GENERAL Fete and Fancy Bazaar in aid of the funds of tirs society ANN ::::ero S u: was repeated yesterday, at the H anoyer - squaro-rooms, and as on the was attended by an equally preceding day. From the great pressure of yisitors on Wednesday, it Wag deemed necessary to provide additional stalls in the lower rem, csintigtwua to th e dhow of trvers - and plants. ( "eie: _l.' r-T PARLIAMENTARY DWI (From the Votes and Proceedings of the Houser, - • THURSDAY, MAY 23. SUPPLY. . . . (IN THE COMMITTEE.) i - Motion made, a...d Qut-stion put, " That a stun ppt'ex.' ceeding 175,6981. be granted to her Majesty, to clef* 014 \- Charges of divers Miscellaneous Services whieh will come irc course of payment during the year ending the 31st day - of March, 1851 ' • also, for divers Miscellaneous Services con nected with the Searching Expeditions under the command of Captain Penny and Captain Austen." The Committee divided : Adderley, C. B. Anson, Colonel Anstey, T. C. Arkwright, George Armstrong, R. R. Baines, M. T. lialdock,:E. IT. Baldwin, Barry Baring, sir F. T. Baring, Thomas Baring, Francis I3ateson, T. Bellew, it. M. Bennet, P. MAJORITY—AYES, 145. Edwards, H. Waal, Lord Elliot, John O'Brien, Sir Lacillll Estcourt, J. B. O'Connell,!llaurlca Ferrer, James O'Flaherty, Anthony Ferguson, Sir R. Oswald, Alexander Foley, J. H. Palmer, Rouudell Fordyce, A. D. Parker, John Forster, M. Plowden, W. H. Fortescue, J. W. Powlett, Lord W. Freestun, Colonel Price, Sir K Gordon, Admiral Rawdon, Colonel Grace, , :. It. Ricardo, John L. Grey. Sir George Rich, Henry Grey, Ralph Wm. Roluilln.Colonel Grogan, Edward Itomlliy, Sir John Grosvenor, Lord R. Russell .F. C. ii. Ilallyburton, Lord J. ~c holetle ld, Willie Harris, Captain Scully, Francis Ilastie, Archibald Scylner, Henry Ker Mitchell, John Seymour, Lord Hawes, B. Sibthorp, Colonel Hay t er, W. G. Simeon, John Heathcoat, G. J. Sinollett, A. Herb rt, 11. A. Somerville, Sir W. Herbert, Sidney Spearman, Henry ilubhouse, Sir J. Stanfold, J. F. Hobliouse, T. B. Stanley, E. Hodges, T. L. Stanley, E. 11. Hood, Sir A. Mansfield, W. R. Hop-, Henry T. Talbot, C. R. Howard, C. W. Tattered, 11. W. Jervis, Sir John Thickness°, Ralph Jolliffe, Sir W. 11. Thornely, Thomas Jones, Captain Townley, H. G. Lascelles, W. S. Townehend, Capt. Lewis, George C: Trail, George Littleton, E. R. Trollope, Sir J. Lockhart, A. E. Tenet, Henry Lowther, Colonel Verney, Sir H. Mackie, John Wellesley, Lord C, Mahon, O'Gorman Weethead, J. P. Manners, Lord J. Willoughby, Sir H. Matheson, J. Wilson, James Matheson, Colonel Wilson, Matthew Mauls, Fox Wood, Sir Charles Milner,:W. M. Milton, Viscount Mitchell, T. A. Mostyn, E. M. Mundy, William Berkeley, Admiral Berkeley, Henry F. Berkeley, C. L. G. Birch, Sir Thomas Blackstone, W. S. Iloldero, 11. George Ilowles. Admiral Boyd, John Brand, Thomas Brockman, E. D. Cardwell, E. Carew, W. P. Carter, John B. Cavendish, C. C. Cavendish, G. H. Chap:in, W. J. Chatterton, Colonel Childers, J. W. Clive, henry B. Cocks, T. S. Collins, W. Corry, H. Cowper, W. F. Craig, Sir W. G. Crowder,_ll.:l2. Currie, Henry Davie, Sir H. Dawson, T. V. Drunilanrig, Vis. Drummond, Henry Duke, Sir J. Duncan, George Dundas, Admiral Dundas, Sir David Dunne, Colonel Ebringtou, Lord 17.1.1.1111. 11111, Lard Marcus Howard, Lord Z. MINORITY-NOES, 20. Brotherton, J. llPGregor, John Tenison, E. K. Greene, John Molesworth, Sir W. Thompson,' Colonel Hall, Sir Benjamin Peelle!, Sir G. Wei/Insley, Sir J. Hardcastie, J. A. rigot, rrancis Williams, John Henry, Alexander Bobartes, T. J. Heyworth, Lawrence Balwey, Colonel King, P. J. Smith, J. B. Lusitington, C. Stuart, Lord D. TELLICIIII. Cobden, Richard Bright, John WOOD USED IN SHIP BUILDING. (IN THE COMMITTEE.) Motion made, and Question proposed, " That it is ex pedient that a Drawback should be allowed on the Duties now payable on all' Wood imported for the purpose of Ship Building :"—Whereupon Motion made, and Question pat, " That the Chairman do leave the Chair." The Committee divided:— MAJORITY—AYES, 50. Fortescue, J. W. Parker. John Freestun, Colonel Price, Sir Robert Grace, 0. D. Rawdon, Colonel Grey, Sir G. Romllly, Colonel Grosvenor, Lord R. Romilly, Sir Jolla Hallyburton, Lord Russell,F. C. H. Ilatchell, John Somerville. Sir W. Hawes, Benjamin Spearman, H. J. Ilayter, W. G. Stansileld, W. R. Hodges, T. L. Tenisoa, E. K. Howard, C. W. Townahend, Captain Jervis, Sir John Tufnell, H. Armstrong, R. B. Baring, Sir F. T. Bellew, R. M. Berkeley, C. L. Brand, Thomas Cavendish, C. C. Cavendish, G.II. Childers, J. W. Cowper, W. F. Craig, Sir W. G. Dawson, T. Y. Davie, Sir H. Dundas, Admiral Lascelles, W. S. Dundas, Sir David Lewis, G. C. Dunne, Colonel M'Cullagh, W. Ebrington Viscount Maule, Fox =SM. Elliot, John E. Mostyn, E. Hill, Lord Micelle Foley, J. H. O'Connell, Maurice Howard, Lord Z. Wilson, James Wood. Sir Chattel MINORITY-NOES, 19. Adair, Hugh E. King, P. J. Thompson, Colonel Birch, Sir T. Lockhart, - A. E. Thomely, Thontao Brockman. E. D. Palmer, Ifoundell WylJ, James Brotherton, Joseph Peehell, Sir G. Cardwell, Edward Sell()lefield, W. WILMS. Duncan, George Pigott, Francis Mitchell, T. A. Forster, Matthew Sul°nett, A. Ricardo, J.L. Greene, John Stanford, J. F. NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. PORTSMOUTH, THURSDAT.—Her Majesty's yacht Fairy, Master-Commander Welch, embarked her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent this afternoon from the Royal Clarence victualling establishment, Gosport, and conveyed her Osborne to visit her Ma jesty. Her Royal Highness was received by the dignitaries of the port and garrison, and with the usual honours. The Royal Marines furnished the gar rison. The Stromboli steam-slnop, Commander Lord Amelius Beauclerk, arrived from Greenock yester day, and came into harbour to-day to replenish fuel, prior to proceeding with the Dauntless screw-frigate for a week's trial in the Channel. PLYMOUTH, THURSDAY.—Her Majesty's steam vessel Vulture was warped to the jetty yesterday, and will be placed in dock to-morrow to have her valves examined. The Ges.amer tender is under repairs in the Camber. She is to be fitted for surveying the Tongue Sands, on which the unfortunate Royal Adelaide was lost. Orders have been issued to the dockyard police to take notice of any of the artisans or labourers ho may be idling or loitering during working hours. Such delinquents, on proper proot; are to be discharged. The merchant barque Empress, Captain R. H. Goble, was off the Start yesterday ; left Sydney, New South Wales, the 16th of December, 1849, Rio Janeiro, March 10th, 1850; experienced nothing but foul winds all the passage, with tremendous gales at times. Passed the Azores the 29th of April. Easter/7 winds for the last month, with three heavy gales. All well on board; no sickness during the voyage. Be ginning to get short of provisions. The ship Alfred, Captain Wiltshire, from Cal cutta, with passengers and troops, went up Channel yesterday, all well, and landed here Mrs. Goldie, pas senger. She landed sixteen passengers at Falmouth on Tuesday. Off Plymouth on Tuesday, spoken by pilot beats, the Dutch ship Elizabeth Anthonia, Captain J. Ken stren, 129 days from Vanjowanjie, for Amsterdam, and the Danish barque Hercules, Captain Ahlmann, 64 days from Rio Janeiro, for Copenhagen. Wind, S.E., light. BATTERSEA PARK. Last evening a meeting of the clergy, . parish officers, and other inhabitants of Lambeth, Newington, Clapham, Battersea, &c., was held in the Vestry-ball, Church-street, Latnbrth, to consider and determine on the necessary arrangements to petition Parliament, and take such steps as may he deem ed ex p edient to ur g e the Government and the Com missioners of her Ma jesty's Woods and Foresta to carry into effect, without further delay, the Act of Parliament for forming a royal park at Battersea-fields. The Rev. C. B. Dalton, M.A.., rector of St. Mary, Lambeth, presided. Mr. R. .FORRIST moved the following resolution : " That with reference to the wants of the southern district of the metropolis, in the year 1846 an Act of Parliament was passed founded upon the recom mendation of the Commissioners of Metropolis Im provements, authorising and directing the Com missioners of her Majesty's Wo o d s , & c., t o royal pow e ra ps o r fk the e t Battersea mo r y th s, at raise said Commissioners to purchase landa was limited to five years, four of which have nearly ex" pired ; that but a small portion of the land has hitherto been purchased, and no commencement whatever towards the formation of said park has been made; that during the continued delay in carrying into effect the Act of Parliament, the site of the in tended park has become the resort of the dissolute and depraved of the metropolis, and particularly on Sundays ; that the population of the district has gone on increasing, and according to the estimate of the R.. , gi4trar-General, was com puted in June last 585,047 inhabitants, a large proportion ofw im of the labouring classes, and are afforded to the classes of the means of healthful recreation, as by the vari classes in other parts of the ule , t tr e o ‘ po an t d that the un ous public parks in their loc . a n i t i o t frect her Majesty looked-for delay in carryingusl intention, demands on and the Parliament's gree'° some expression of their the part of the inhabitants,should induce their exertion, to diappcintment, and _ nd the Commissioners to adopt urge the Government a and commence h b . suc o Joe,. more active proceedings, a forthwith." Mr. PutLurs sec onded the resolution. Omer resolutions in accordance with the objects of the eeting were put and carried, after which the meeting separated. o h rld i , nr c t se b:A uen exc i te d, rr kiespeciallyTArl AN i n Fh t e ti ;:l i e I. :: the announcement of a narrative by the celebrated Geveral Pepe of all the recent scenes and events in Italy, includug the revolutions in Naples, Sicily, and Rome, the militivy operations of Charles Albert, and the siege of Venice, o.f which city he held the command. Wo understand that this been important narrative of the revolt of his countrymen against the Austrian power comprises General Pepe's confidential communications and interviews with the most influential of the Italian vereign , . The account of I tal y durin g this eventful period by a gene ral officer of such high repu tation cannot fail to attract the attention of every reader who re ga-ds this classic land with a iproper degree of interest.— ..evening Paper. 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