The Sun. — London, England, 1814-05-11 00:00:00

e. decided, whether, f sa r tte salvation of the hest of his chnnitriOns,. n • Sovereige couLi cede pert of them ; Mid whether the people of the so ceded were :not board, under ordi eary circunistatices, t 'submit to glich au ee rengement. .Let the general practice of the Ne tsional Law in this •itescance he considered. The ' doctrine of the Noble.Eatrl.would go to prevent any Sovereign from occupying peaceably a con quered country, unless with the actual and .solemn eonsent of the people. Stich a cloettine would prolong and extend the evils of war twit degree (elite incalculable. In fact, it was' impossible to d'!uy that the true 'doctrine-teas, that iht common tsiSes the duos of the ceded country was to.submit to,the getteral arrangentent. And the effects of Leaking out such a doctrine es would gire to every town_ or place ii right to resist in a ,case O f ?ession,. would he. most ruinous to the general lTerests, of • seciety.—Respseting toe parallel between the eases of Norway and Spans —no thin could he more dissimilar, as one was a case hf comnelsion, xel the other of a cession made , erne rary power, which had full right and liberty to maktf it. Ills Lordship then stated that ti''s Crown , Prince of :sweeten had per formed his stipulations to the full extent. Ou the 28th of June he had brought 28,000 men into vetted. service!, whielt wits, an occurrence of the greatest tilonient in the state of affairs at that time. Indeed it was well known, that if the Treaty had not been made at the time it was—if the i statedard of revolt against Buonaparte had not ben betel •up in the North of Germany, strength ened by the coalition with Sweden, affairs might }lave taken such a turn as might lni've rendered it eliflicelt for us 'to preserve our existence as a na tion, as France might heee become in a situatiim to overpower the rest of Europe. If, then, this Treaty was found necessary iu a period of apple ltensioe, we were not now to say that its stipula tions should, not .be fulfilled. The radical princi ple CI it was strictly just ; and the King of,Swe (leo had expretsly declared, that the cession of Norway should be accepted by him with every re gard to the peace` and happiness of the people. — Indeed the cession could not be otherwise titan a bsnefit to these people, its they would be removed from an absolute' and placed under a limited Go verteneut, with a Rept esentative Body. On the avhole, the course w'hich' this Country had taken u'es at the request of the Allied Powers, who were the first to propose thug connection, and its results could not fail .to prove of benefit to the people, 'whose eas e formed, the 'subject of disctissioo.— The Mollie Karl concluded with a, few words in trine to o low to be distinctly heard, bin which were conceived to he a motion in behalf of the previous ettestion. 'Lord had, hoped that . his Majesty's ?4lulisters would have been inclined to interpose, to prevent the people of Norway from being cone pelled by force to submit, not merely to a foreign Power, hut to one which had ever been the most hostile end sieremittiess enemy of Norway, as- far els moire old hostility could 'reach. He ,did trust that Ministers would have cootiselled the 3' ince Regent to conform himself to the wishes of the people. h Joing an act which'would not have been less great. than any which had been 'performed by the Allied Powers in behalf of indepeadenee. But when he saw, from the cliseusSion which had already taken place, that etuleaVours were using to subject Nor way to the horrors of war, he must say, that when such was the first use made of a Conti nental Pacificatiou, our COlldllCt was criminal Indeed, end subversive of every moral duty to weeds thepersons against whom we were about to act. His Lordship then went at sonic length into the opidotie of l'uffinidorff, Grotius,andVat tel, to Slim that there could be no such thing as Lereditary right, in a. despotic Monarchy, to dis pose of or transfer a nation of pehple. All these writers had proved Unit the Sovereign has no Power to alienate a people, or transfer them like Cattle, • tat suc h a case, uttol en , such authorities, his Lordship contended that the people had a ri ght to form a new Govertenten for theMselves, rather than submit to be heeded over from one ,Government to another ; and lie was astonished Low it could ever enter the minds of Noble Lords, that • any people whatever ought to be so de graded Its to be transfet•red like beasts of burthen. The Kingoilletenark rules Norway, not as King of Pentnark, but flfl Kill of a separate Dorni , . He can no more eerie Norway for the benefit of Denmark, than the King of Blighted can cede England for the benefit of Hanover. In fact, a SoVereign never can cede ; he may renounce his authority, or abdicate, or forfeit his crown, but the allegiance of his subjects he has no right to transfer. and therefore no nation has a right to compel him to do so. Norway starts up as an in dependent kingdom ; yet some persons tell the people they sliest submit to be transferred, as it is for their good, though they ere so eeklortimate as not to knot' it. They are told that they have passed from a d es p o ti c to a free Const orlon.— But what are the first fruits of tiiis politierd free mere ? Thsy are required to lay clown their arms, duvet to give up their fortresses to be free without the Of defence ! This was exactly like the conduct of France, , who never invaded' a pro eince without • makieg profesSions of liberty, end then imposing on them a constitution by f° l "ee of arms. Such was the present ease of' SVVC . - (len s and he Welshed to fin,l;thatif the object could not be effected by other means, the glorions nevy of Finland was to letisl its -Issistance for the Pur !llse. If Ineeould twee belt (see liar the `Freely in 'l"e 4 tion %vas not direetly repugnant .to the net oral right of Norway, yet he would persist that the . Ct owl , ' Prince of Sveeden has forfeited all right to the htterpositien -of this venture, by the non-peer f°rovidee of the stipuletioue el that Tre a ty. iri s Lc,idshiphyre read a paragraph trim) the Treaty, styhicle stored, that reeonrse should no t be had to orce, to induce the seinnission of Nce • way, em less ,Denmark refused to join the Confederacy of the North ; and as Derllll/Irk hues, at length, joined . tho Allies, the Hoitse were now endeavouring to p' il "Pnothis Treaty a constrection which did not to it• We \vele, in fact, committin 'it g a most - g ra nt act of illjustke, nothi ng fess then pl ac i ng °lo'selres R state of sicar with Norway to e.tiforce her submilsion to an atethority which , she ; an act 'which be .considered. to be the met. absurd wad .disgraceful that could b e con sented tn. As to the 81tita or N - otivrty; 0 ;0 4 4 , it is a part of Den Mark, or it iS a dominion now, de jure, under the &own cat Sweden. If it be a part of Sweden, then it seems- this' country is to perform the ! lisgr ace f u l task of. Chastising t . :e re , hds of Sweden. If the question were to be looked • at in a sitnple'view, it would be seen that it w;,s ti adVintiageoni for this country to maintain a conti»ental balance. , Voltimes of correspon 7 _H (Jena ware in that. House,' which bad nomiher object than to.mainfain a just balance of power in the North; but now, our new lights seem -to shevi., that all the balance must he placed in the bands of Russia . alone; so that France must ulti mately be the Power to whom Sweden must turn to counterbalance . this enormous influence. He Was far from wishing to hint that such event would soon occur ; but it 'might in. the course of ; • human life, and it was the duty of this country to look a!wajis with a prudent jealousy towards France. • The Earl of Hmutowsy said a few words in reply. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, there were two questions wider which thiS subject should be ar gued : first, whether this cession be conformable to the taw of nations ; and, secondly, which 1 is a more narrow, ground, whether- this coon . try had any right to interfere'. He %void(' say, that if all the general principles• of the laws of nations' were brought torwikl in behalf of NOrWay, there were still ciretunstapces in her ' ease which would reutler them inapplicable. He would, in the first place, simply. state the facts under Which the cession was made. At the com mencement of the last campaign, the troops ot'Swe , . den were directed against Denmark, then the Ally of France. The coosequence was, that - Holstein, Sleswiek, and other parts of the ainish territory, soon fell into the power of the Swedish forces, and the King of Denmark, to preserve the whole of his dominious, ceded a part.. The good faith of the Crown Prince was then so manifest, that every engagement. 4 - entered into was punc tually fulfilled. • Let us see, then, in what "'ela tion we stand towards, this Power. Let its consi der that 'Sweden has actually made the sacrifices to secure the object that was agreed on. , She has "done so, and therefore it becomes oar-duty to see thltt those 'sacrifices have not been .mole in vain. His Lordship th.. 211 made several allusions to pas sages of the eminent Writer - i on the Laws of Na tions : occur:ling to these, he did not deny that it is quite optional, when a country is ceded, whe the people will or will 'not receive their 'new blasters. In every Treaty of Peace there have been cessioas,: which were made under the be lief that a country had a right to cede a part (if its dominions, in order to gain the object for which the Treaty was framed. He should not, however, state this as an universal axiom : there may be many, cases in which a, people may;be justified tor' resisting, NO Sovereign con cede that which be does not possess himself, But it cannot be said that the King of Denmark has ceded any rights which he did not possess ;• and although he is the most absolute Monarch in Etr rope, yet he holds' his Sovereignty on the same principles as limited Monarchs. In the • year 4650, NOrway was ceded to the King of 'Den mark ; there could, therefore, be no doubt o f the • power and ei g h t o f t h e King to transfer it again if CiretilliStatiCeS required the cession. What was the cause (tithe invasion of Denmark, which led to this cession ? It was known that the whole of Denmark, except Zealand and Norway, was tooter the influence of the'coiturion enemy, as far usi respected its resources of every description ; and. the part which was left in the possession of the enemy was full as valuable as that which was ceded to Sweden. At the time of the cession there was no objection which" the people of Norway could make which was not re ' medied, and they were even told that they might choose, under the,Crown of Sweden, any form or Government they might prelV ; so that the offer really was, that those who had been governed in a despotic manner• could adopt a more desirable form. If the principle of the right of cession were the point to he maintained, then never was there a case of less grievance than the one before us. But sonic Noble Lords talked as if we were making war on these people of Is;convav for the first time; or as ihough we had never received any injury from them. The fact, however, was, that Norway, as a part of Denmark, had been' at war with us during the last eight years, and this province had done us ten tunes More injury than all the re' t „of Denuntrk together. Its ports were a constant refuge for . theenemy's ves,- sels, which materially anuoyed . oiir trade. Has this province, t nen, after submitting. . itself town enemy, a right to con‘ , ..rt its , lf into an independent kingdom, for the mere purpose of avoiding the conditions of the peace made with the party by whom it was ceded—for the purpose of prevent ing !,is and our Allies front fuihlliug those engage ments which we made when that country was a._ province of the enemy ? One circumstaoce ought to 'be clearly ascert4ined; namely, whether this independence is the free spirit and will of the people themselves, and has limiting in it a fo 'vigor treaeliery. Ile denied, that in the present case it would be right to make suet; an assertion. —Some months ;ago' the King of Denmark sent Prince Christian to Norway to be Regent of that PrOvinee, In January last, the King of Den- Mark ceded Norwry to Sweden, Every 'condi tion imposed on Sweden has been punctually exe cuted; but, on the part of Denmark, what are the conditions which have been fulfilled ? Have the fortresses been put in possession of Sweden ? Ott the contrary, Prince Christian proclaims the in dependence of Norway, naming himself still Re gent and Prince of that country. lie has a de legated authority front the Government of that country, and under this authority lie refuses to give up the' fortressei. All the public offices in Norway are filled with Danish agents, who sti mulate the people to these acts of insubordina tion. Instead of such conduct as this, world it not have been right in him to have called a Diet, to know whether the people of Norway would sitbmit to the new Government ? He knew pa sitivelythat the question had not been e fairly Mat- • etL. With respect to the Proclamation of the King of Sweden, it had' been stippressed.by authority in Norway, and the 'people bad even been led to believe that the Government of this. country was iii tivout , a their liatopetdetite t tuy, Prinett Christian bititsell assured the -I)et that met last Month, that they would have the assistance of this errantry. There are parts of Norway the people of which are decidedly friendly to•the lie could' not agree with the Noble Lord on the tptei.tion of genei-al principle. His Lordship _then replied to the arguments of the Noble Lords who spoke early in the debate, and insisted, that their comparisons had no analogy to the case before the House. !flint of Split), in particular, was tom tally dissimilar, for Spain was not at war with France, but at peace; and therefore the conduct of France under her late Ruler was. nit act of the grossest treachery. The Noble Lord, who had commented on the part which the Swedish troops -bore France, had no right to complain of any want of faith on the part of Sweden, for that part . was taken intirely by the permission and approba tion of the Allies. He then proceeded to amminmad vert on the allusions which bad been made to petty jealousies on the part of the Crown Prince, which, he contended, were in a great Alegree unfounded; so far from this there had been a general dlsposl - among all the Allied Powers to hear with little and unavoidable evils, and to sacrifice every thing to the grand object they had in View. Oa the whole, he would say; that if the Trcatys *here a wise measure when originally )made, this country would not be base enough to abandon it. His Lordship concluded an eloquent speech with ex pressing a hope that the House wimuld arm the .Executive Government with such towers as would enable it to bring the subject to a sattstaetory issue; Lord HOLLAND considered the effect of time Ad dress to be to withhold the last extremity of war frtuu a people on the very day of Negociations for Peace. Here his Lordship read several passageS of the Treaty, and inferred, that as Noway was not positively guaranteed by it, this country was under no engagement to secure it by violent means ; that even supposing there were no general law on the sabject, the strict words of the Treaty would authorise us to abstain from all interference with time Norwegians on the present occasion.- It certainly was not intended to . be asserted, that in every respect its situation was ,simil ar , b ut i n, some:of the grand leading features it was, the same... That which had been said, of its being infeasled to give Norway a better constitution than she had heretofore had, dicrnot prove there was any great di lierenre between•the present situa tion of Norway and that situation in which Spain was formerly placed. Bußnaparte bad given Spain a Constitution; and indeed it had become a fa shion forevery Prince who wished to add a neigh.; , bouring country to his dominions, to come for ward with a petition, which Was to Make all the people happy. This lie considered hut as a mockery, a farce—and he bud rat her hear aggres sions defended on the odious principle, that they were , polite, and, in the present state of things, necessary, than attempted to be glossed over this way. The Noble Lord had said the bostilityarl Norway had been very injurious to this country; more so than that .of Denunt.tk or ming other countries. fie won!d admit that it might be so.; and doing this, he would pat it to their Lordships, .if it was prudent in this Country to assist in transferring. Norway to Siveden. The: ..Con stitution intended for Norway, it had oozed out in the course of this debate, was to be gua ranteed to the people of that country by England. Of this Constitution it did not appear that we {thew any. thing, vet we were to take uprin our selves to hang, draw, and quarter time Norwe gians, if they receive it., It was forced' upon them from 'motive* of humanity. Ile wished them to have - done with this - language, and to s a y, we have concluded a general Treaty, amid now time fulfilinent of it is demanded, we' must pay time debt of shame, rather than mode the sufferers with the affectation of benevolence. ?f the stipulations in the, Treaty had not been strictly fulfilled by Sweden, we ought to take that Treaty syllable by syllayle, and word by word, in order to see if we could not avoid acting hostilely to Norway. lf it should appear Sweden had not fulfilled het en-, gag e me u t s ih the way in which site was to- have fulfilled theta, we ought also to claim the right Of performing our part, of. the bargiiu in a di ff erent way, and leave to others the odious part, which at present we were about to take. Lord IionINGDoN' felt himself called upon to vote against the Resolution ; as it appeared to him, ,underexisting circumstances, impossible to adopt any course but, that which had been pill.- sued by his ,Majesty's Government. The Cession of Norway by Denmark was perfectly consistent with public I.lw as they found it laid down by Vattel.• However lie might adopt the feelings of the Noble Earl who had brought forwards this motion, and concurrink; as be did with many of the principL.s which he had laid down, he could not, under all the circumstances, agree to 'nitre for the Address, Earl GREY was surprised the Noble Lord; who had 034 sat down, should share his feelings, and admit therefore of the pr;nciples whit,h he (Lord Grey) had advanced, and yet, by voting against Iris motiOn, allow that, though in ordinary times these ought injustice to be strictly adhered to, a pe 'riod might arrive when it would be; roper to depart frotri them. Till now lie had never heard such language held in the , British Parliament. He had always thought that that which was just was there held to be binding. • "-Feat Justitia rust emlunt,"' was an old axiom, which they had been accus toined to respect ; hut when interest stepped in, it should seem the Noble Lord was of opinion it might be set aside, and " ruatjustitia," for jns tic': was then a subordinate consideration. Ar guments had this night been used, which he had hoped were gone by with the French Revolution. • The books of public law were thrown away, nod' cases of ceded territories, Where consent was im plieti or ',expressed, were mixed with those of countries 'where a determination to resist had been manifested: His Lordship than proceeded to re-argue the general gite,tion, and. repeated mahv of his original observations. Lord Livr.apoot.- briefly explained. . The House then divided', when the numbers were—. For the Address—Present ' 27 Proxies Against the Addreett—Present . . . Proxies • 09-115 Majority in favnur'of Ministe r ' s Adjourned at hall-vast TWelea HOUSE of CONNONB, Mill 10. CIikEVEY pnstponed hit Motion for 1nt1,4 Correspondence till Tuesday next., In a Committee on the British Herring; Visheriti Acts ; Mr. Itcra: mord,G Vitt! tip Ch rusk leave to bring a Bill to aniend_and vow. tinne the 48th Of George The Itu , Ointiott was agreed to, and leave given to briHg in s► Lilt Counsel Wiroesses were heard its a Coln:. IllitteC 011 Green's Divorce till. The.' itepon was received ; and the till ordered to be read a thir:t time. Mr. Rosa brought in a Bill to'amend and con stinue the British ,Herring Fishery' Acts. It was tend 14 fir: time; and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. • Mr.TA't , Lott presented two Petitions from King. horn against the proposed alterationS in the Cora Lows. Ordered to lie on the table. • Sir G. Ceßnxpresented a•situilar Petition from Musselborgit. Ordered to lie on the tabhi. Mr. WHITBREAD presented a Petition from tire inhabitants of Clerkenweli, praying the Bill, noNy in the House . , for regulating the Common Sc Mo'l tni<ht pass into a law: Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. WntTertzti.n poved the second reading of the Finsbury Sewer Bill. Mr. Mr. Brno opposed the r. WHITBREAD replied. i:1• its detence.---4he House divided,- when the numbers wet.e.,--, For the second 49 Against it lB .--31 MESSAGE ionONI THE PRINCE REGENI'4 The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER brought clown the following Message : "GEORGE P.' 11.•—The Prince Regent, acting in the name and on behalf of His Majesty, having taken into consideration the many signal Victbries obtained by the valour and skill of . Field-Marshal the Duke of ‘Vellinvort, has been pleased -to create bite a Duke and Marquis of the United Empii e ; and, his Royal Highness is desirotti of further manifesting the high sense he has of his eminent services, which hove exalted - the renown of the - Ariti,it Arms, established the safety and independence of Portugal and Spain, and contributed largely to restore the tranquillity of Europe. • . "The Prince Regent therefore 'recommends - it to his faith ful UommonS, to enable to grunt such an annuity ter Fiel&Marshal the Duke of Wellington, •auil the heirs of his • body succeeding to the title, as shall tend to support the dig. nity conferred on him, and :at the saute thue furnish a lasting - memorial of - the, feelings of his Royal Highness, and of the % gratitude and munificence of the British Nation.'' Ou the motion of. the CHANCELLOR of the CHEQUER, the Prince Regent's • most gracious Message was ordered to be referred to a Cotinnot..• tee of the whole House in Supply ; to be taken , into consineretion to•morrow, The CHANCELLOR of the EtiCHRQVER appeared at the Bar with another Message from the Prince Regent, to the following elll.ct ` 4 l.lzottat: P.R.—The Prince Regent, acting in the! name and op the behalf of hi* Majesty, taking into Ids considera tion the ilistingnished service" p,eEfsitined byThunias Lord 14riedock, Lieut.aieneral of his M3j:.!sty's Armies in Spain and Portugal, and being` desirous of conferring urn and his two nest snrriving lwirs, a signal marl; of his distin guishoVarour and approbation, recommends it to his faithful COllllllOaS to tukr,snah 11/oaStirel INN cie w be urcegoary to cu able him toaccomplish so important a purpose." Messages to the same effect were brought down with respect to William Carr, • Lord 2ieresfori4 and Rowland Lord Hill, which, with the fore going, were ordered to be referred to the Coin. mictee, to be taken into consideration to-morrow. • W'EIGHTS AND MEASURED. Sir G. CLERK, after expatiating ttt some length on the importance of the subject, and on the ex pedieney of legislative interference,' with a view to remove the evils and irregularities %Odell at pre sent. exited, moved that a :Select CoMinittee ht appointed to inquire into the Original Standard of • the Weights and Measures of tbe•UnitedKingdom. to consider the existing Laws on the sithjeet, at:d to report their observation thereon;- together with their opinions as to the 'best means of ascer taining and enforcing a certain and univerSal Standard. Mr. WHITBREAD highly :•tpproved of the Hein. Baronet's object, and hoped he'would be more snecessful in the attainment otsit than his predeees. ! sors in the same effort. The regulations atv present existing were extremely intnitynite, even as they relatcd to frandtilent Weighttpand Meaiures, the Magistrates being merely empowered to seize thy: former ; and in the very net of doing so, they not infrequently rendered themselves liable to the operation of other lawsl Mr.D.,thrinv warinly supported the motion. contending, that nothing could be produetiyk" of more general benefit than the establistunelt of the regulations wished for by the flon. Baronet, The motion was then agpeed to, and a Coin , rnittee appointed. • COPY RIGHTS OF AUTHORq, 111 r. D. GIDDY, in rising to submit to the House the Motion of which he hail given notice, took a view'of what the law bad formerly been with respect to the Copy-right of Authors, (lc the evils of which they-at p rese ot to cont. scribed the alterations which (IA been [limit!, and plain. In the Bill which he wishe d to bring i n , he should p ro p ose , if i t were su ffered to go to a Committee, certain Resalutions, which would go to -restore the old laic , in part. He proeeech : d briefly to describe the provisions which he thought ought to be made, and concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to amend tilt several ,Acts for the eneouragement of learning, by securing to authors their copy-right. Sir's'. FLOOD inquired if the Bill was intended to extend to Ireland. Mr. 1). thliDY replied that no alteration Wll3 in contemplation with respect to Ireland. Sir J. NEwPoii, gave notice, that on Tnesday next he would move for a Committee to con,idcr of the punishment - at present inflicted for the .Crilne of Murder. Mr. littoopttx brought up the Report of the Committee of Supply, which was-agreed to; he also brought up the Report of the Connnittee tart the .Itlxeise and etlfittlVlS Acts, which ..was • agreed to, and Bills ordered accordingly.. , • • S T ir J. Na NSWPO inquired why certain rettivhs ordered six weeks agb to be furnished by the L Courts, had !Mt been presented ; and . not receiv ing an answpr to him satistactory, gave notice, that he would to-morrow move that the Registrar of one Of the Courts should be called to the Bar to explain this non-compliance with the order of the /louse. The Irish Ecclesiastical Cana*, and Scotch, Verdicts Bill, were reed a third time, and passed ; I_ll -1