The Sun. — London, England, 1850-07-31 00:00:00

MAYO ELECTION. The following (by e:ectric telegraph), which was fur nished us by Messrs. Smith and Sons, Eden-quay, Dub lin, appeared in our Fourth E iition last night:— DUBLIN, TUESDAY MORNING. The returns of Saturday giie the close of the poll. Not a single voter pollf4d yesterday on either side. Mr. Butt returned to Dublin this morning. A petition will be presented against iliggins'3 return. TURKEY AND GREECE. We have received by the Levant mail Constanti nople journals to the 14th, and Athens journals to the 18th inst., both inclusively. The only thing of interest in the former ie the confirmation of the news received through Germany of the restoration of tranquillity in Bosnia and Bulgaria. The Greek journals are destitute of news of importance. ITALY. The Council-General of licalth at Genoa has decided that 411 arrivals from the Regency. of Tunis, Malta, and Algeria, where the cho lera at present exists, shall be henceforward subjected in the Sardinian States to a qua rantine of twelve instead of seven days, but without the necessity of landing or purifying goods at the lazarettoes. Also, that all arrivals from Cuba, now labouring under the epidemy of the yellow fever, shall be subjected to a fortnight's quarantine, besides land ing goods at the lazarettoes, where they are to be subjected to purification for the space of 21 days. The Concordia of Turin quotes a letter from Flo ence of the 20th stating that the strangest rumours are urrent about the band of 11Passatore, who still infests ooth the Tuscan and Papal Romagna, notwithstand ing the exertions of the Austrian troops. Engage ments are said to have taken place with his men in the vicinity of Cortona, in which the Austrians were worsted. They also say that II Passatore has two pieces of cannon, that he has divided his band into three bodies, giving each a commander, and that he is well provided with arms and money. MARKET INTELLIGENCE. (From the London New Price Current, July 30.) Suoi.a.—To-day there was more desire evinced to operate in better sorts of grocery and refining West India Sugar, whilst a fair business was transacted, and in several cases the rates obtained are 6d per cwt. above those of Friday. In inferior and brown qualities only limited purchases were made, still holders were firm, and would not sell bat at full terms. At auction 150 hhds and 5 tierces Barbadoes were ail sold; good and fine sorts at stiffer rates, and inferior at fall terms; fine yellow went at 40s to 425, good 38s 6d to ,39s 6d, low to middling 36s 6.1 to 38s, one lot crystalized „yellow 41s 6d per cwt. The total purchases amounted to 483 hhds and tierces; the market also closes with a firm aspect. - REFINED.—To-day the Refined Sugar market presented a quiet aspect, and prices are not so firm; there are sellers .of brown grocery lumps at 49s 6d. British Crashed Sugar was in fair request, at 27s to 28s 6d per cwt. Of ,Dutch Sugar Candy 140 boxes brown at auction were .withdrawn. DIAURITIUS.—This afternoon there was an improved -demand for Mauritius Sugar, and the public sales of 6,176 bags went at full rates, and a small advance was .realised for grocery sorts ; low and mid grey went at : 33a to 35s 6d, better sorts 36s to 38s. good to fine yellow 37s to 39s 6d, mid and good mid 33s 6d to 36s 6d, low 34s to 334 good and fine brown 32s 64 to 33s 6d. EAST INDIA.—This afternoon a fair business was concluded privately in Bengal Sugar at former rates. Only 805 bags were off,refi at auction, and sold at 321 6d to 33s 6d for low and mid soft yellow, being full terms ; ,but white Benares realised 39s 6d to 41s for good and fine, and damp 39s 6d to 40s—these are rather higher prices. FOREIGN.—To-day former rates were sustained for Foreicn Sugar, but the business concluded by private treaty wai of little moment, and none was offered at pub lic sale. . MoLassEs.—ln West India sales are upon a larger scale, but at previous low rates. Of St. Vincents 200 puns were sold at 13s, and small parcels of An tigua and Barbadoes at 15s 6d to 16e per cwt. For East;lndia prices remain at Ils to 12s per cwt. Cocoa.—An improved demand has been experienced for Foreign, and prices are firm at 27s 6d to 28s 61; there is only a limited quantity on offer. For British Plantation the demand is increasing, and as supplies are • limited, stiffer rates are obtained. At auction 400 bags Grenada were sold at 39s to 435, and fine at 44s to 46s per cwt. COFFEE.--This afternoon there was not much desire • to operate in Plantation Ceylon Coffee 'at the public sales, which comprised 267 casks and 1;7 bags:, at which prices declined fully Is per cwt, but nearly all sold ; good middling went at 56F, middling 523 6d to: 545, low middling 50s 64 to .51c, fine fine ordinary 46s to 493 61, good and fins ordinary 44s to 455 6d, low ditto 414 to 433, and pea berry 56s 61 to 57s 61. Of ' Mysore 9 bales and 20 half bales went at 44s t 3 45s for good ordinary, and at 37s to 43s for damaged; and 3 hales Mocha realiz.ed 743 for fine yellow. For Native Ceylon 42s 61 to 43i is the value of good ordinary. TEA.—There has again been, an extensive demand for the lower descriptions a Congnu, and prices continue to . advance. Merchants also evince much firmness, and obtain 1 iid to 1114 fir common, 11:11 to ls for good ordinary, 1; Id to 13 21 for medium sorts. In good and fine Congou several transactions have taken place at ;ruin is 3d to is Bd, and holders aro I. disposed to realize. Of common and mid green considerable parce,le have bre!' sold at rather higher rates For better qualities a good demand has been experienced at folly former terms, indeed. llyson and Y ,, ung Hyson realy..-d a small advance. Of Scented and Pekoe Teas several parcels have been sold, and prices are rising. • Rsca.--To day thers was less activity in the East India Wee market, and only a limited business was con eluded by private treaty. At auction 1,162 bags Bengal were only in part sold at barely farmer rates; fine white . went at Ila 6d, mid 93 6d to 10s, ord broken 8s 61 to 9s, and damaged 84 64 to 9s per cwt. SPICEB.—A much better demand bas prevailed for black Pepper, and previous rates are well supported. At auction 8,000 bags Sumatra were sold, good clean black '3cl to 3 3 f1, grey ditto 2 i to 34 per lb. By private treaty a fair business has been • concluded, and Malabar realiz;d 3d to 33d. White realized full terms, and met with more attention At auction 146 bags realiznl 6d to 6id for mid. For brown Nutmegs of inferior and mid quality 3 reduction of 2d per lb has taken place. At auction 80 pkgs were sold, fine at 3i 31 to 3s 51, good 2s 10.1 to 3s 2d, mid 2s 61 to 2s 91, low 2s 3.1 to 2s sd, out of con dition is 111 to 2s 2d; 312 bags wild in the shell went at 2d to 3d, and one lot good 51. Mace is wanted, and must be quoted - Id to 2d higher; 40 pkgs at auction all sold, common at 2s to 2s Id, middling 2s 21 to 2s 31, and out of condition la 71 to 2s. Of Cassia Lignea there is still a scanty supply, and a fair inquiry has prevailed at 86s to 90e per cwt. A reduction of Id per lb has taken place for Bourbon Cloves. the supply navinZ much increased; still at public sale 500 cases were chiefly sold at 61d to 6 . 11 for mid and fine. The value of Penang is still is to Is _6l, but little has been done. SALTPETRE.-1%.-day Saltpetre was operated in with caution, and of 917 blgs offered at public sale, a small part only found buyers at former rates ; mid and good Calcutta 13i to I , q per cent refraction realised 25s to 265, but fine was taken in at 27s to 28s for 4 to 4i per cent refraction. COCIIINEAL.—This afternoon a public, sale of 93 bgs of Mexican went at about former rates, but mostly sold, silvers at 3s 7d, black 3s 8d to 3s 9d. SPIRITS.—For Bran4y there is a firm market and a good business has teen concluded. cognac best brAnds of the vintage of 1849 realised 44 6d to 4s 6d, 1348 ditto 4.1 7d to 4s 9d, • 1347 ditto 53 ld to 5s 3d, and interior sorts 2s 9d to 4s 3d per gallon. A further increase ha.s takon place in deliveries for all purposes. For Geneva the market is dull with seller.' of export sorts at is 64d to is 7d, and fine for consumption at 2.s to 3s. For British made Spirit there is no variation, but the market is firm. To day the Rum market presented a firmer aspect, and a fair business was concluded, proof Leewards at is 4d to Is 4id; East India. is 3d, and Demerara of strong qua lity 26 to 2s 2d. INDIGO.—The home and export demand is still good for East India at full former rates, and a small advance is obtained for picked lots, indeed at present rates some parties are not sellers. Spanish is in fair request, and prices are looking up for the lower sorts. OILS.—In pale Seal several purchases have been made and the rates paid are 321 to 321 55, other sorts are y et scarce and realize . 301 to 31l per tun. A fair busin ess has been concluded ine Sperm • fine colo n i a l at 83 1 to 84/, and Ileadmatter 90 1 to 921 whilst en - the part of holders there is firmness. There are several buyers of Southern, and rates rule at 311 10a. to 34/ for common to fine. Cod Oil is still held ifor 341 103, For Linseed Oil prices are not so , firm and rule at 33a to 334 6d on the spot, and at 32s 64 to 333 per cwt fn. delivery. Rape Seed Oil met with ready purchasers and an advance has taken place, refined selling at 37s to 38s, Brown .361 to 36s 61, and. there is a further decrease of supply. Palm met with a more active demand and fine realised 2Ss to 29: per cwt. Cocoa Nut is still operated in with caution, and there are sellers of Ceylon and Cochin at 29s to 304. In Olive several purchases have been made and the market is firm; Gallipoli and Spanish at 421 to 43/, other sorts 411 to 411 101 per tun. The consumption is extendinz. and likely so to continue. Fot' auction 130 tons Palm, 400 tons Cocoa Nut, and 60 tuna Seal Oil are declared. TALtow.—There has been rather more disposition to opeentein Russian on the spot, but prices do not improve. Fine yellow Candle is offered at 36s 6d to 363 9d, and inferior sorts at 31 to ad per cwt less. Sales are limited for delivery in lot three months ,of the year at 37s 91 to 33s 93. In borne-melted a good trade has b?en concluded at 353 6d to 36s nett cash fur present delivery. Full teems are ob tained for all sorts of Tallow; at auction 280 casks of Sydney were sold at from 32s 93 to 35s 9d for low to floe; and 636 pkgs South American at 33s to 35s 9d. The value of P.Y.C., free on board, is 331 103 to 311 per ton for this and next month. There is no present foundation for the report that the Vice-Chancellor of England will be compelled to retire in consequence of the effects of his late illness. His Honour is recovering strength with rapidity, and unless he suffers a relapse, it is his intention to resume his duties in November. Sir James Wigram is suffering under a temporary depriva tion of sight front disordered stomach, but ho also does not pit despair of recovering. If he resigns, the o ffi ce o f thi r d Viee-Chaticellor 1,3 no doubt at an end, and the 'Learned Judge Till enjoy a pension. THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JULY f t 31, 1850. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Jury 30. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the Wool. sack at Five o'clock. SMALL TENEMENTS RATING BILL. This Bill was read a second time. GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH (No. 2) BILL. This Bill was read a second time. TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINUANCE BILL. The report on this Bill was brought up. HIGHWAY RATES BILL. The Highway Rates Bill was read a third time and passed. FISHERIES ON THE FRENCH COAST. ARREST OF ENGLISH FISHERMEN. The Earl of WICKLOW asked the Noble Marquis whether be was aware that several English fishing boats had been lately seized and carried into French ports, on the ground that they had been encroaching on the rights of the French fisheries, and whether any steps had been taken to remedy the grievances of the English fishermen who had been con demned in large fines by the French authorities. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that fir a long time there had been disputes as to the rights of French and English fishermen. In 1838 a treaty had been en tered into, by which it was agreed that the ocean within the coasts of the respective countries should be con sidered as belongieg to those countries. There was an exception to this rule, which was the coast be tw.-en Jersey and France; there a certain line had been drawn. Now it so happened that exactly upon this line a bed of oysters had been discovered ; whether these oysters had had private information of the treaty, and had taken advantage of it, he did not know—CA laugh)—but it was upon this bank that the alleged encroachments had taken place. The temptation to encroachment was too strong for any fishermen. Several French fishermen had been arrested by the English authorities for encroachments, and had been fined, and several English fishermen had been arrested by the French authorities. By the treaty persons so arrested were brought before the magistrates of the respective countries, and the consul was to attend and watch proceedings, and if he thought injustice had bean done, it was his duty to report the same to his Government. Several English fishermen had been taken into Dieppe ; the consuls had attended and had mado no representations to the Foreign-office, and there• fore the Government had no reason to. believe that. in justice had been done in any of these cases. PROVISION FOR THE PRINCE OF WALES. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved that an ad dress be presented to her Majesty, in answer to her mes sage, assuring her Majesty that the House would adopt means to secure to his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales the possession of Marlborough House so soon as ho should attain eighteen years of age. The necessity for asking this opinion at present was that Marlborough House was to be devoted to the exhibition of the pictures left to the nation through the patriotism of the. late Mr. Vernon. Lord BROUGHAM seconded the motion, and in so doing passed a high eulogium on Mr. Vernon. Lord REDESD ALE thought it would be advisable to fix on Marlborough House as a residence in perpetuity for the future heirs of the Throne. The motion was then agreed to . CANTERBURY SETTLEMENT BILL. This Bill was read a third time and passed. FEES OF THE OFFICERS OF THE HOUSE. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved a resolution to the effect that the House concurs in the suggestions of the Committee recommending the reform of the fees of the officers of this House, and would carry the same into effect.—Agreed to. The Bills on the table were forwarded a stage, and their Lordships adjourned. merit he intended to affirm the proposition that the Baron was to constitute himself the judge, not only of the manner in which the oath should be adminis tered, but also of the words of which the oath itself' should consist.—(Hear, hear.) That was a thing which he could not conscientiously vote fur, according to the view which he took of the case; but, said his Honourable and Learned Friend, you change the words our Sovereign Lord King George for our Sovereign Lady the Queen. Now, really, was that a mode of dealing with the case ? (Loud cheers.) Might they not just as well say that they could change the oath because they did not say A B, but inserted the name of the party sworn?—(Cheers.) Looking, then, at this case with the greatest attention which he was able to give it, he did say that the House had not the power of dispensing with any portion of the oath. The oath was imposed by an Act of Parliament, and having given the best at tention he could to the Act, the words "on the true faith of a Christian " did appear to be part of the oath. and it was the duty of every Member to take it in full before he could take his seat in the House.—(Cheers.) His Hon. and Learned Friend seemed to be a little sur prised that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government should have expresed his opinion without having heard the arguments. Why, his Honourable and Learned Friend must know that it was his, as well as the Noble Lord's duty, to consider and look into the case well before coming down to the House, and no doubt the Noble Lord bad done that. — (Hear, hear.) At a l events he had considered all the bearings and facts of the case, and he came to a conclu sion which was liable no doubt to be removed by argument, but he bad listened with the greatest attention to the ablest argument he bad ever heard in his life from his Hon. and Learned Friend, and he must confess that it had failed to remove from his mind the difficulty which he felt about altering an Act of Parliament.—(Cheers.) So long as a statute required them to take a particular oath' the House could not dispense with any portion of it; he believed then the words " on the true faith of a Christian" to be part of the oath; aad, speaking there in his judicial character, upon his conscience he did think the Baron Lionel Nathan de Rothschild had not taken the oaths in the form prescribed by the Act of Parliament, or in such a manner as to entitle him to take his seat in that House.—(Cheers.) Mr. ANSTEY asked why his Hon. and Learned Frtend the Attorney-General had addressed the House on this occasion? He would tell him. It was to give some sort of colour to the Noble Lord at the head of the Government—(Cheers)—some sort of justification for the Noble Lord for his indiscreet and unseasonable speech of yesterday.—(Hear, hear.) His Hon. and Learned Friend (the Attorney-General) had reminded the House that this was a judicial question. If that was an, why was the question preiudged ?—(Hear.) If it was a judicial question, why was it made a Cabinet question? Why was the law officer of the Crown put forward to defend the Prime Minister? Had his Hon. and Learned Friend (the Attorney-General) ventured to reply to the unanswerable speech of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Oxford ? He had . not ; he had contented himself with a sic yelp sic jubeo reply. The argument of the Hon. and Learned Gentlemen was , this: —Either the House had power to tamper with the Acts of Parliament or the oath had expired. Every fresh Parliament Protestant Members were called upon to take the oath. It was not put to him, or he would have claimed his right to be heard at the bar, and have showed that it was an illegal oath.—(Laughter.) Hon. Members might laugh, but he would quote a passage from the statute, which would set the matter at rest for ever. The arguments of his Hon. and Learned Friend opposite had been greatly perverted. It was allowed that a man ought to be sworn according to the form most bind ing on his conscience, and - the question was, did the words "on the true faith of a Christian " form part of the oath which was held binding on the conscience in certain cases. He said they did. Whatever opinions might be formed by lawyers or. courts of justice as to the mode of prescribing the oath, they could not shrink from doing their duty and acting justly to one who, though elected to sit in that House, was about to be deprived of that privilege by the starting of an objection which he thought could not be righteously sustained— " Fiat justitia, ruat ecelum." The Hon. Member concluded by expressing a hope that the question would not be allowed to rest until Baron Rothschild was permitted to enioy his right of sitting and acting as a Member of the House. Mr. HUME said it would be quite impossible for him to attempt to enter into the legal argumenti of the case,• after the very masterly and very able speech of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Qxford; but he wished to observe that one argument had been . used which had not been answered by the Honour able Member for Abingdon (Sir F. Thesiger). That Hon. and Learned Member called upon the House to agree to a motion to the effect that the Hon. Member for the city of London had virtually vacated his seat, be cause he had not taken the oath of abjuration in the pre scribed form ; and he wished to ask him by what statute or by what law he considered the Honourable Member had rendered his seat vacant?—(Hear.) Now no one, he apprehended, would doubt that the Baron Rothschild had taken the oaths of allegiance and supremacy, and having taken those two oaths he (Mr. (Hume) contended 'that he could not be expelled. The last oath, the oath of abjuration, was one of pains and . penalties, but the Baron would not be sub ject to those pains and penalties unless he had eat and voted. Perhaps it might be better, as the Attorney-General had come into the House, that be should put the question to him. He wished to know from that Learned Gentleman by what law the Hon. Member for the city of London had vacated his seat; he had taken the oaths of supremacy and alle giance, but it was said he had not taken the oath of ab juration.—(Hear, hear.) In his (Mr. flume's) opinion he had.—(Hear.) The-ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that it appeared to him that the seat bad become vacant, assuming that Baron Rothschild had refused to take the oath of abjuration.—(Hear, hear.) By the 6th of George 111. persons who refused to take the oath of abjuration were subject to the same penalties and disabilities, as by the laws and statutes already enacted were provided, and by that statute they referred to the statute of William 111., which directed that the party re fusing to take the oath should be unable to sit in Parliament. Mr. BERNAL—What became then of the statute of George 111. ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL considered that the statute of William HI. overrode it. Mr. WOOD assented that the statute of George 111. repealed the statute of William 111. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL could not agree in that opinion. Mr. V. SMITH was not prepared to assume that Baron Rothschild had refused to take the oath (Hear, hear,) —yet that was the proposal of the Honorable and Learned Member for Abingdon, The Hon. and Learned. Member then ‘ proposed further to issue a new writ for the city of London. He could not assent to the adoption of such a course, when they had the first legal authority in that House disputing upon whether Baron Rothschild was entitled to his seat or not. He could neither vote for the original motion nor the amendment, and he would therefore suggest that a Com mittee should be appointed to consider what was the state of the law op this subject.—(Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY felt a difficulty in the matter. The terms of the motion of the Honourable and Learned Member for Abingdon were that the Baron de Roths child had refused to take the oaths prescribed by law; but the Baron (14 Rothschild did not do that; -he merely omitted certain words from one oath, because he did not think them binding upon his conscience. —(Hear, hear.) Now he was prepared to vote against the amendment of the Hon. and Learned Member for Ox ford, declaring that the seat was full, and he must say that he thought they ought to proceed with great caution and deliberation before they agreed to the motion for the issue of a new writ.—(Hear. hear.) They must look at this as a precedent for all future time, and what would the minutes of the House disclose? It would appear that a Member came to the bar—he took the two first oaths prescribed by law; be took the last oath prescribed, by law, with the omission of certain words, stating that he did not refuse to take them, but that he did not use them because they were not binding upon his conscience. —(Hear, bear.) He thought with his Honourable and Learned Friend the Attorney- General that these words formed part of the oath prescribed by law, and the House had not the power to dispense with them; but still they ought to have something more to proceed upon than the statement of the Hon. Member himself before they proceeded to declare the seat vacant. There was another question, however, to be 'decided. Was the refusal of the Honourable Member final and com plete, and the seat thereby vacant ? For his part he believed the Act of William 111., which made the refusal to take this oath vacate the seat, was still in force, notwithstanding what had been said to the con trary by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman the Member for Oxford.—(Hear. hear.) At the same time they were now acting judicially, and he did think in the present state of conflicting opinion on the law they would be acting unwisely if they now decided that the seat was absolutely vacant without taking more time to look into the point —(Cheers.) Sir F. THESIGER was anxious to proceed with all proper caution and due deliberation, and undoubtedly when he proposed his resolution in the terms which ho had submitted to the House, be thought he was pursuing the course of precedent. because there was no doubt whatever that there were a variety of instances upon which parties had come to the table and refused to take the oaths, and upon that refusal there had been immediately made a motion for the issue of a new writ.—(Cheers.) New, Baron Rothschild took two of the oaths at the table; but on coming to the words in the third, " on the g h o e n ar. h ) ja true faith of a Christian," he closed the book and said (Hear,dbinding c k er is ta se in d ly the did bo n o o k t . lie conscience. (Sic F. 'Le g g t e h r e ) n he b omitted those words because be considered them not understand, when the Baron said he omitted these words, for the reason which he , gave, that there was a re ftbal to swe ar t o t h ose words 9 11 7 -( ear, hear.) If he (Si r g in F. The s i ger ) was wron • s upposing that that amounted to a r e f usa l to take asubstantial portion of the oath, he wished to know in what mode the Right Hon. Gentleman (Si r G. Grey) proposed that that the H ouse should ascertain cl ear ly an d di stinctly whether it was t he intention of Baron Rothschild to take the oaths pre scribed by Act of Parliament or not. Mr. PAGE WOOD said, on the part of Baron Ro.ths child, but without consulting him, he would say, that Baron Rothschild had not the least hesitation in sayitig, that the omission to take those words should be taken u a refusal to take them. Sir FREDERICK THESIGER said, then if that were so, he could hardly understand why his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Oxford (Mr. P. WOod) wished to claim whet his lion. and Imirusii griped called a locus penitentia for Baron Rothschild on this occasion.—(Laughter.) He (Sir F. Thesiger) bad merely risen to make the explanation which he bad given to the House. Sir GEORGE GREY explained that Mr. O'Connell distinctly reluaed to take the oath of supremacy, and the House reiolved that he was not entitled to take his seat without taking that oath. The Speaker having informed Mr. O'Connell of the resolution of the House, Mr. O'Connell asked to see the oath, and he said he declined to take it because it contained two propositions which he believed to be untrue. Mr. ROEBUCK said all he knew from the Hon. and Learned Member for Oxford was that Baron Rothschild refused to take the words on " the true faith of a Christian." That did not imply that Baron Roths child had refused to take the oath. Mr. Alderman SIDNEY, amidst shouts of " Oh, oh," said if this was a judicial question, and if this House was to be the judge ot it, it required not the learning c f a lawyer, but the sound sense of an individual to form an opinion upon it. After listening to this debate for three days he had come to the conclusion that the question whether the House was to admit Baron Rothschild to take his seat or not was virtually decided by last night's debate. This was not a party question, but it was one in which each of them would feel himself called upon to act the part ot a magistrats. He entertained an opinion that the time was gone by when this House could persuade the country that a constituency like the city of London was not able to judge for itself. He trusted that the House would not stultify itself by proclaiming to the world, and to the city ot London in particular, that they would not accept the man whom they had chosen, and by requiring them to go through the farce of a third election. Lord JOHN RUSSELL asked the House to come to some decision as to the course of proceedings. If the Hon. Member for Oxford, who represented the Hon. Member for London in that House, thought some delay advisable before proceeding to a diiision, he should pro pose that they should adjourn until six o'clock. Mr. P. WOOD said that as he understood that it was the desire of many Hon. Members to speak, he should move that the debate should adjourn until to• night at six. --- Mr. DISRAELI—As it appeared to be the general feeling of the House that the question was narrowed to the point whether they should repeal an Act of Par liament or not, perhaps it would be requisite to allow some further time for considera►ion. He would remind the Noble Lord that the Irish Franchise Bill stood for to night. He would propose to adjourn until to-morrow. — (Cries of• " No, no," "Divide, divide.") He would propdae, then, that they should go on with the Irish Franchise Bill at six o'clock. Mr. P. WOOD said, that having consulted with Hon. Members, he should be perfectly ready to go on with the division. Mr. B. OSBORNE said that he wished to state how it was that he had not spoken on this question.—(Cries, of " Oh, oh.") He was one of those who took a com mon sense view of the question, and he did not intend to have his judgment perverted by the quibbles of lawyers or the equivocal conduct of the Prime Minister. What was the course of proceeding by the Government? The Attorney-General moved that Baron Rothschild should be heard at the bar of the House by counsel, but 'the Noble Lord (Lord J., Russell) got up and told the House, after the Baron had been put to great ex pense in retaining counsel, and after he had raised the expectation of the electors of the city of London, that it was true he had agreed to hearing the Hon. Member by counsel, but his mind was made up on the question, and that whatever counsel might say he would call on his supporters and other Honourable Members to vote against the admission of the Ho nourable Member. Tbey were told that this was a judicial question, but they knew very well, from the course of proceeding by the Government, that it was not a judicial question, but had been made by them a party questiou.—(No, and Hear, hear.) It was no use tempo rising with the question, _and he would tell the House if it did so that it would engage in a conflict with the citizens of London, out of which it could only come with disappointment and disgrace.—(Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL rose to explain. His Hon. Friend the Attorney:General stated, on the occasion referred to by the Honourable Member, that he would follow the precedent in the case of O'Connell, and pro pose that Baron Rothschild should be heard by himself, or by counsel or agent. Then the Learned Gentlemen the Member for the city of Oxford, said he was authorised by Baron Rothschild to state that he did not wish to be heard by counsel.—(Hear, hear.) That having been declared, a debate ensued in which the Honourable Member for Middlesex declared very strongly his opinion on the whole question.—(Hear)— and such being the case, he considered himself as well entitled as any other Member to state his opinion to the House.—(Cheers.) He accordingly did so, observing at the same time that he thought this was a judicial ques tion, but he certainly did not wish to influence any member of the Cabinet, or any other Member of the House in the decision of the question.—(Hear.) Mr. STANFORD rose amidst loud cries of "Oh " and'6ther marks of disapprobation, for the purpose of supporting the adjournment of the debate. He hopeil the House would not prejudge the question, and that he would hive an opportunity of considering its whole bearings before he was compelled to record his vote. Strangers were then order to withdraw and the House divided, when there appeared— For Mr. P. Wood's amendment ... 117 Against it ... ... 221 Majority against the amendment 104 On our return to the gallery wo found Lord J. RUSSELL stating that he did not think the House would be justified, without further authority,lin saying that Baron Rothschild had refused to take the oaths. Ile thought the+ House ought to have time to deliberate upon the question, wnethcr either an Act of Parliament or the precedent and usages of the House mide it neces sary and incumbent upon them to proecei immediately to issue the writ. Ho was anxious that the House should take the utmost time to deliberate upon that point, and he therefore hoped his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Abingdon would not press his motion now, but either withdraw it or adjourn it to some future day.—(Hear.) Sir F. THESIGER was extremely anxious to leave the matter entirely in the hands of the Noble Lord.— (Opposition cheers.) He meant precisely what he said. —(Cheers.) It was a question which concerned the pri vileges of the House, and he thought it was.peculiarly a matter for the Noble Lord to decide what course they ought to adopt. Of course he was not as well versed in the rules and forms of the House as the Noble Lord, and being desirous to proceed with due caution, he was anxious to receive the instructions of the Noble Lord— (Cheers) —as to the proper course to be adopted.— (Hear, hear.) He had no desire to hurry this matter on, he ' was only anxious, inasmuch as they were now in a position which placed them in a difficulty as to the proper mode of proceeding, that there should be every opportunity afforded the House to consider the question ; and he could, of course, have no objection to adopt the sugges tion of the Noble Lord.—(Cheers.) With respect to the question as to the refusal of Baron Rothschild to take the oath, if it was required by the House that they should have more distinct information on the subject, he was ready to accede to it, because his object was to establish a precedent for the future con-- duct of the House; and it was, therefore, of the utmost importance that the journals should be full and complete upon the subject.—(Cheers.) Mr. HUM.E said, the Hon. and Learned Member seemed surprised at some demonstration of applause in favour of his conduct, but how could he to on. wonder at that ? Wh y , did not the Honourable and Learned Member le ave everything in the hands of t h e Noble Lord at fir s t, w h y aid the lion. and Learned Member step forw ar d an d i nterfere with the Noble Lord? The sp e speech would of the H a divisiona d sad Learned negative Gentlemanw a s quite inconsist en t w i t h h i s practice , House and he hoped the proceed mo tion.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. V. SMITH said this was a question for the House of Commons, and not for the Ministers to decide. He was surprised at the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite talking about caution, when he had been so rash as to propose a resolution which the House could not adopt; nay, it actually stated what was not the fact, for it was untrue that the Baron Lionel de Rothschild had refused to take the oaths.—(Cheers.) If any ad journment took place, be hoped it would be for the pur ls - Use of ultimately having a Committee to consider the law of the subject.—(Bear.) • Sir R. H. INGLIS denied that the resolution of the Hon. and Learned Member for Abingdon contained that which was untrue, nor had the H on . an d Learned Member been at rash and precipitate in his conduct. —(Cheers.) The Right. Hon. Gentleman the Member for Northampton! had said that the Hon. Member for the city of London had taken the oath, and if the Right Honourable Gentleman limited himself to the word oath, he was justified in saying so, but the lion. Member for the city of London had not taken the oath, which was the whole point at issue. The lion. Gentleman had taken an oath, but not the oath.— (Cheers.) Supposing the Hon. Member had omitted clause 3,4, or 5 of the oath, would the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Northampton then say that the Baron de Rothschild had taken the oath?—(Cheers.) There fore, then, be contended that the motion of his Hon. and Learned Friend was not premature, was not at all ill advised, and affirmed nothing but that which was obli gatory upon every one of thess.—(Cheers.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved that the debate be adjourned to twelve o'clock on Thursday next. His Hon. and Learned Friend the Attorney-General would then propose such a resolution, or resolutions, as his Hon. and Learned Friend and himself (Lord John Rus sell) should have conceived the dignity and the usage of the House required. Sir F. TIIESIGER seconded the motion. Sir B. HALL said, whatever resolution the Govern ment might propose on Thursday next, he, for one, should insist that the motion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Abingdon should be affirmed or negatived by the House.—(Cheers.) Mr. V. WOOD said, as any resolution the G overn . ment might propose on Thursday would be in the shape of an amendment to the motion of the lion. and Learned Member for Abingdon, he did not see why the House should not dispose of the motion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Abingdon. Mr. ROEBUCK: reminded the House what they were going to do by adjourning. The real facts of this case were before the House, and the only doubt was about the conclusion from those facts. Mr. HUME thought that if the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) meant to act fairly on this question, the motion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Abingdon should be disposed of or withdrawn. ACer a few words from Mr. ANSTEY, Mr; AG LIONBY asked the Government if they were going to incur the odium of preventing the House com ing to a decision on the motion of the lion. and Learned Member for Abingddn? Lord JOHN RUSSELL replied th4t he thogilt far better to adjourn the debate until Thursday than to come to any hasty decision on the motion before it. As to any odium he might incur, he did not think it would he wire for the First Minister of the Crown to be very sensitive on that point,—(Laughter) He doubted it was part of his fate to incur odium, but he should seek to avoid it as much as possible. The gallery was then cleared, but no division took phlce. On entering we found Sir F. THESIGER expressing his willingness to with draw his resolution, or to have it negatived ; but the House must understand that it was solely on the ground ihat he might not interfere with the Government reso lution. Sir F. The3iger's motion -was then put and nega• ivi , d without a division. In reply to a question from Sir B. HALL, The ‘ATTOIiNEY-GENERAL said that it would not be possible for him to lay his resolution on the table bef ,re Thursday. Mr. ANSTEY complained of this delay. The debate was then adjourned until Thursday. Mr. DISRAELI suggested that Hon. Members who had notices of motion on the paper should allow the Government to proceed with the Irish Franchise Bill this evening. Lord J. RUSSELL expressed his willingness to com ply with the suggestion. Mr. P. SCROPE said that he would willingly postpone his motion if it were the wish of the House. The House then adjourned at a quarter after four until half-past six. The House resumed at . Half-past Six, when Colonel DUNNE postponed his motion relative to the growth of tobacco in Irel Ind. PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS' (IRELAND) BILL. The order of the day being read for. considering the Lords' amendments on the Parliamentary yuters (Ire• land) Bill, Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose and proposed, "On consideration of Lords' amendments to Parliamentary Voters, &c. (Ireland) Bill, clause I, page 2, line 8, to amend Lords' amendments, by inserting the word 'twelve,' instead of fifteen.' To agree to Lords' amend ments omitting clause 2of Commons' Bill. To disagree to Lords' amendments omitting clauses 18, 19, and 21, of Commons' Bill." Before he made the motion he was anxious to state the general view which her Majesty's Government took of the amendments which had been made in the Bill. and also as it stood now in being sent down by the Lords. The House was well aware of the extreme case which existed on this subject in Ireland— s case which showed, that while they had in England a per contage of registered electors in proportion to the male p9pulation, of 8 per cent., in Wales 32 per cent., in Scotland 25 per cent., in Ireland the proportion was less than 2 per cent.—(Hear.) Without entering into fur ther statistics the House would see a strong example of the great decrease of the number of electors in Ireland, and if any further proof were wanting it would be seen in Mayo—a large and populous county—where, at the election which had just terminated, less than 250 voters voted for .the two candidates.—(llear, hear.) What her Majesty's Government proposed on the subject of elec tors was to change the present system cf voting alto. gether, and the tenure on which. it was founded, into an occupation franchise. He for one thought that Hon. Gentlemen, who discussed this subject, were apt to lose sight of the fact that the practice in England generally was the 40s. freehold franchise. It was no doubt very common to talk of the 50Z occuaption, which existed, and to say that an 81. franchise in Ireland was much too low, but in point of fact, the franchise in England ge. nerally was the forty-shilling freehold, and to show that such was the case, he should call the attention of the House to the relative proportions of that franchise as compared with the 501. in several of the counties. In Berkshire the number of those possessing the 40s. free hold was 3,274 and of 50/., 853. In Herefordshire, of 403., 5,280 ; of 50/., 1,639. Lancashire, 16,064; of 50/., 3,457. Middlesex, 10,418 403. freeholders, 1,317 50/.; and in Sussex, 3,769 40s. freeholders, and 1,059 of those who possess a 501. qualification. It was quite clear, therefore, that the grea t b u lk o f t h e voters in the English counties were persons possessed of the 40s. franchise—a species of qualification, as the House well knew, abolished in Ireland several years ago, and was now completely extinguished. It was, there fore, proposed that the great bulk of electors in counties in that country should be occupiers rated to the relief of the poor, and the first question of great importance which arose on the amendinent of the Lords was the amount of that rated occupation. They proposed, and it was acceded to by the House,. that it should be an 81. rating, but it was altered in the House of Lords and raised to 151. The number of tenants rated at 8/. would be 330,224, whereas the number at 151. would be 180,000, and if they deducted one-fifth, which was the usual pro - pnvtion - for double - occupation and tenements inhabited by females, the number at 81. would be 264,000, and at 151. 144,000. It. appeared, therefore, that the amend ments made by the Lords struck out no less than 120,000 voters out of 264,000 to whom that House accorded the right to vote. That amendment, however, appeared to him to reduce the number in a far greater degree than was in accordance with justice; it was, in point of fact, reducing the proportion of Irish voters as com pared with English much smaller than it ought to be. He (Lord J. Russell) proposed in some measure to remedy that great defect; he proposed to take 121. instead of 15/., which would give 172,000 voters instead of 144,000. The proposition originally adopted was in the proportion of 15 per cent. to the male population, the amendment in the Lords made it but 8 per cent., and -the proposal ho was n ow a b out to ma k e o f a 12 / . wing would make it about 10 per cent. He (Lord J. Bissell) thought that if the rate of voting was raised to 151. a question would arise immediately whether the right of voting by tenure, and especially the ancient right of the . 40s. franchise, should be again resorted to.— (Cheers.) He wished, however, as soon as possible, to have such a number as to form a constituent body, and on that ground be should propose, instead of the 8/., which he yet believed was perfectly reasonable, and of the 151. proposed by the House of Lords, that in order to remedy a crying grievance which now existed, to insert 121. instead of 15/., which was almost dividing the difference. There was another alteration made to which he (Lord J. Russell) attached greater importance, because the whole principle of the Bill was involved in it. They might take the rating at 8/., 101., 121., or 151., but the main principle and scope of the Bill was, that in stead of sending in claims to be registered, as now, which produced so mach discussion and contention, it should be a self-acting register, and those on the rate books for the relief of the poor should in future be placed on the list. He thought the adoption of that plan calculated to put an end to the interference of landlords or any other persons, and thus have the registry in future conducted on the simplest scale, and put an end to many evils—(Hear, hear)—more especially those complicated questions which arose at present.—(Hear, hear.) He, therefore, proposed to disagree altogether with the amendment made in the Lords on that clause, because, as he said before, he attach e d f a r grea t er importance to that, inasmuch as it seemed to him to be entirely con trary to the principle of the measure. Whether, ,as he already said, the rating was 81. or 121. was a question f ,r• argument, but on the principle of the Bill he felt no doubt of being right, and he should, there fore, propose to disagree altogether from the Lords' amendments on that subject. There were parts altered in the Lords to which he did not feel disposed to mske any alteration, although he bad not changed his own opinions, for example, "owners of tenements" was inserted, which altered the Bill in some measure, but he VV,t3 not disposed to offer any opposition. Another re garding joint occupiers was one on which a great deal of discussion took place in that House, and some doubts re sly>cting it were entertained, esp€cially by Irish Mem bers. That clause was struck out in the Lords, and he (Lord John Russell) did not propose to disagree with them. Another clause, giving a 51. freehold, was also altered in the Lords. Ho no doubt considered such a clause a very important one, because in the sale and sub division of land now taking place in Ireland, he believed it would create a great number of small proprietors, which was very desirable: the Lords inserted the words " above all charges" in the clause; but as that was in some measure conformable with the freehold right in England, he would not insist on that amendment being rejected. There were a good many amendments made in the Bill, and in the schedules attached to it, which were rendered necessary, by the operation of the Bill being fixed to take place on the Ist of June, 1850. The whole effect of those amendments would be that the registry would commence on the 9th of September, 1850, and be completed on the 15th of March, 1851, and after that period it would commence in each year on the lst of June, and end on the Ist of November. These were the amendments made by the House of Lords, and he had stated his intentions respecting them. With respect to that now under consideration, he proposed that the House should agree, and they could then proceed with a consideration of the next in order. Mr. GASKELL called on the House to ask themselves calmly and gravely if the grounds put forward by the Noble Lord were sufficient to induce them to refuse the Bill as altered in the House of Lords. No one denied but that the Bill as returned from that House would extend the constituency of Ireland, and after they had seen the operation of it would be the proper time to propose alterations. He did not hold the opinion that merely because a constituency was small it ought to be increased. —(Cheers and counter cheers.) He could not agree in the opinion that that House should pass mea sures for the extension of the franchise, without any re ference to the character of those to whom the votes were kiven—(Hear, hear)—and he was bound to oppose mea sures which would give power to those whose principles would, he believed, lead to the disruption of !all social ties, and the subversion of every institution in the country.—(Hear, hear.) On that gronnd he felt it his duty to oppose such a measure. But there was no doubt that the Bill, as it had come down from the House of L would give a very large extension of the consti vtueeryncuynirnealsreenlaanbdle, a t n o d r e h j e ee t t h t o h u e gh ß t i w m o e u r l e d iy t hbeereeafuosree,,t the other House of Parliament was not wilting to make such sweeping alterations as they were. He regretted that the Noble Lord had not shown a more Conciliatory dis position in this matter. Mr. F. FRENCH said he certainly e ch d a indmt min i sters its disfranchisingct eo cons t ituen c y c u o n a (mr ti tbe opinion of the Hon. Member that of th th is e ß ß il ii l l w , e o v u e l n d do much to ext e ( n fft d ete:e a d twr e . al na s r o en c Hta r uhdi a y mas c t y bo eiwinrt i ns n i g% ivw l ,ni r hae e i is: l a and. On th e con trary, its effect would be to render still more insignia icwnahni which feeblehannredixgiisntasi_ s h t a resolvei persons r of s o Property n the s who wholein were subject , measure, and certainly his obj ec ti ons were not lessened when he found the 121. propo s iti on would strike off 24,000 voters from the formerlyea, decided ought to be lal o enfranc hised. I reland had voters, te fallen, w from o n Id n p o e - t culiar circumstances, so l ow i n value that a very large number now be rated either at 121. or 151. He was not disposed to disfranchise those who sent him there; he would rather ask the same franchise as we had in England , 40s, freehold and all. - • , Sir W. SOMERVILLE complained that the Hon. Member had introduced questions which, whether right or wrong, had lung since been settled, and had no fear ing on the immediate question before the House. The lion. Member oppo,ite had complained that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had not exhibited a more conciliatory disposition. He must say, that in expressing his own views, the Hon. Member had shown a much less conciliatory disposition. But what was the defect they were called upon to rem , Ay? Every one admitted the constituency had dwindled away. But it appeared that even the estimates formed of its actual amount were far above the truth. Ia Mayo, the second largest county in Ireland, the constituency had been estimated at 591, whereas, at the election just finished, no more voters than 230 could be brought to the poll. —(Cheers, and counter cheers.) He understood the cheers of Hon. Gentlemen opposite. But he repeated, that his firm belief was that in every county in Irela-.d there was not one half the constituency calculated. The Hon. Member had talked a great deal about up holding the privileges of the House of Lords. He trusted that he would not forget the House of Commons had its privileges also.—(hear, hear.) In proposing to adoi:t a 121. franchise after that House had agreed to an 81. qualification, he thought his Noble Friend had shown eve:. desire to respect the independence of the other House of Parliament, and at the same time made a reasonable proposition, which he trusted would be ac cepted by that House.—(Hear.) Lord JOCELYN said, when the measure was before the House he had stated his opinion in favour of a 121. franchise, but had strongly objected to the varied anti um qual valuations o❑ which these rentals were assessed. The valuation, which was now nearly completed, would, if generally enforced, remove that inequality, and if his Right Hon. Friend could state that it would be made the foundation of the valuation of the franchise, it would have some weight with him as to the vote he should give, as well as other Hon. Members. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that by the law as it now stood he believed the poor.law valuation wou Id ne cessarily ft‘rm the foundation of other assessments. At all events, he could assure his Noble Friend that the matter had received, and would continue to receive, the anxious consideration of the Government. Mr. MOORE said the state of the Opposition benches of that House showed very significantly that this was not a mere Irish question.—(Hear, hear.) Ireland was chosen as the great b ittle field of party. He had no faith in the party on either side. First of all the Noble Lord had been suddenly smitten with a deep sense of the degraded state of the Irish franchise. Why, any time fir the last six years that degradation might have struck him, and during that time the Irish Members would have gladly aided him to pass any reasonable measure. —(Hear, hear.) What was the reason why the Whigs, who had been so long playing at Tories—(Hear, and a laugh)—should so suddenly have discovered the ne cessity for extending the franchise? Why did Paul appear among the prophets? It was because the trumpet of protection had been sounded across the Chan nel.— (Hear, hear.) It was not until the cruiser was in sight that the masters proposed to arm the slaves. He might be wrong in these suspicions.—(" Hear," from Lord John Russell, followed by laughter.) Well, if ho was wrong, it was easy fur the Noble Lord to set him right. Let him pledge himself to introduce another Bill fur the reform of the Irish franchise, at least as liberal as that he had brought in this year. Let him pledge himself honestly, earnestly, and strenuously to bring to the aid of that measure all his official influence—such, for instance, as he exercised in the case of the African squadron.—(llear, hear.) If the Noble Lord would do that, he would pledge himself that the Irish Members would give him all the aid in their power. The Noble Lord was silent. If the Noble Lord would not do that, he for one would not lift a finger to fight any more party battle for the Noble Lord.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") On the other hand, Honourable Gentlemen opposite, by their conduct on the question, had re newed the battle between their party and the people of Ireland. He warned them that in the end that must be fatal to them.—(Hear, hear.) As to the fears expressed of the results of an extension of the suffrage in Ireland, he spoke from considerable experience when he said that mob law and mob dictation were the result of a narrow, not an extended franchise. Let them imagine the posi tion of 1,000 voters spread over a large county. There might be only ten or twelve in a single district. These might be taken up to the poll under the protection of the constabulary, and back again to their homes, but the moment they were left there, tr ey might as well be placed among a pack of wolves.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Why was this? Because the voters were not a large enough body to protect themselves, and because the others were excited by their exclusion from the franchise. Colonel DUNNE would vote with the Noble Lord for the reduction of the qualification from 151. to 121. He believed there would be no objection to the view taken by the Noble Lord in respect to the other amendments male by the Lords—namely, that relating to joint oc cupancy; but he also believed that the machinery of the Bill, in reference to the self-acting registration clause, the third amendment of the Lotds, would be most pre judicial to its successful operation. Colonel RAWDON said that the Bill had been treated with injustice by the other House. Mr. CLEMENTS said he would support the proposi tion of the Noble Lord, the First Lord of the Treasury. Mr. ANSTEY said that although he supported the Noble Lord's proposition, ho did so with considerable regret, because he thought the franchise of Ireland was miserably low, and this 121. franchise would not place it in the position in which it ought to stand. He would himself, on a future occasion, bring in a measure to in crease the franchise in Ireland, England, and Scotland. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD would vote for the proposition of the Noble Lord as a matter of necessity, but he entered his protest against the proposed franchise being considered as that to which the Irish people were entitled. Mr. SCULLY also supported the proposition of the Government with great regret, because it was not equal to the requirements of the Bill. Mr. BRIGHT said, if he understood it aright, this was the measure of the session, and they were soon to part without having passed any Act of great public utility but this. It was a sorry account that the Government would have to render to the public for the time that had been occupied by Parliament in its deliberations. With re gard to this particular measure, no man could say that the Government had grappled with the representation of Ireland before it was absolutely necessary; because, with a population of eight millions, living under the same constitution as ourselves, there was scarcely any representation whatever amongst them. In bringing forward the 81. franchise the Noble Lord de fended that measure on grounds perfectly satisfactory to him (Mr. Bright), and if his intention had been spoiled by what had taken place in the House of Lords, the Noble Lord was still responsible for what had taken place there. The conduct of the Government in the House of Lords had been completely different from what it had been in the Commons, and it would seem from all that had taken place there, that the Government in tended it not to be an eight-pound franchise Bill, but that that amount should be altered by the Lords.- The principle of the eight-pound franchise had been affirmed by increasing majorities of their own House, and if the majorities and minorities of both Houses were added to gether, it would appear that that principle had been car ried by a total majority of 47.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He knew that Hon. Members were not used to that sere of arithmetic, but this he would say that in a matter effecting the elective franchise of the House of Commons, the votes of the House of Commons were more entitled to regard than those of the other branch of the Legislature.—(Cheers and laughter.) The Crown was also in favour of an eight-pound franchise; and if the Crown and the House of Commons had approved of this step, it was doubly incumbent on the Noble Lord, as the Minister of the Crown, to have seen that it was carried, and he ought to have been cautious how he al lowed a small majority, of a small House, sitting in another place, to override the measures of the other estate of the country.—(Cheers.) The Lords would have carried the franchise higher than 151. if they dared, and the Noble Lord knowing their designs that way, ought to have stood manfully by it, and have preserved it in its integrity. The Noble Lord was a great man for constitntions, and one of his chief objects was to work this House in harmony with the House of Lords. He had undertaken a hopeless task. That very day they had been engaged in the discussion of a subject which gave them an obvious specimen of the dead lock at which the two Houses were now arriving.—(Hear. and cheers.) The House of Commons and the Ministry were treated with contempt, but the Noble Lord per sisted in ripening the pear, and in " bombarding" the Lords with good measures, as he believed the phrase was before 1841—(A laugh)—and in paring down every measure which he believed necessary for the good of the country, till it passed through the gauge which might please the House of Lords. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord's constitution would not work. In this conjuncture of affairs the course which the Noble Lord ought to take was to state at the beginning of the session, in introducing the single measure of un doubted utility, which he would now be able to piss in a session, that he intended that it should be passed in the form substantially in which it was introduced. The course which at present he was pursuing was humiliat ing to the House and destructive to the Noble Lord's Government, besides which, it kept those back who were sitting on the Liberal side of the House from advancing measures which they were sent there to support. Their safest policy in Ireland was the most generous policy.— (Hear, hear.) They had tried other policies there for centuries, and there was now no spectacle so humiliat ing as that to which Ireland had been reduced by the rule of the " territorial system." Generosity and justice was the remedy which they never yet had tried, and it was the one they were now voting against, apparently because they were afraid of having a hundred gentlemen there to represent truly the , territory of Ireland. If th e 12/. franchise were now' taken and the terms ho proposed, he trusted that in the course of one or two sessions the Noble LOrd would find himself forced to propose the extension of the franchise contemplated by this Bill when it left them. Of this, at least, he was convinced, that a liberal and generous policy toward Ireland was the only one which could bring tLem from the leaders whom they said had misled them. Lord J. RUSSELL said he felt sorry to have to ad dress the Hou-e on the topics to which the Honourable Member for Manchester had adverted, but he could not altogether avoid doing . so; for the Hon. Gentleman, not to this Bill entirely, had thought fit to confining himself ,lay down propositions which, as he conceived, he thought tended to disparage the present constitution . of this c ountry, and led to the establishusent of some other. But thiswas a question which arose for their decision on amendments which had come down from the Lords, and aaeeewhich it was therefore necessa r y for them to deal with on the decisions of that House of Parliament. The Hon. Member for Manchester now proposed, that with regard to any measure of the kind in future, the Minister should state, in introducing it, that he in tended it should be carried. Well, if the Bill should hap. pea to be rejected by the 1.901 idogelkg $4. pm • ---,--------- , ! Member sboull h ave something in the backg,raunw thd to ; 1 fill back upo n . It might be very desirable to follo e • 1 views of the constitution which the .1-11 1 1 ) 0 - 03 1 ‘ , 1 1 e b e e t r 'e h r:a d e expressed, but they ought not to blind t moment us to whet hie views were. The llont'lli.3. Member, in fact, proposed that their deliberardtloloo should proeted without reference to history or re! , bii precedent. It was plain that instead of discussioce,isio ideas in detail, they should sit as an absolutely de to its assembly, with no barrier to its wile no oppositien.tu,„ decrees, and before which all the states and consti that bodies of this country should bow. It might h e ~,,,, such a thing was desirable, but all he could sayn:erm that he, at least was not one to desire it. linP ecil ioci , in the way of legislation, and the delay id wa Y e ero A dental to the progress of large measures, they w e o l e d f a miliar with; but he thought yet that the sum di u i t 4 e ,„, , under their constitution was so great,' their inset , i w il' th so valuable, and their fruits so precious, as compare'6lhich those derived from other forms of governevent4t lie were recorded in ancient and modern history, e t e ide dly though he would not declare them toubjeurdaceunwee:.. inferior, still he would not lightly sures of change and resistance.—(llear, hea r- ) 1 , bo ways consideed that existing laws s hould °l l , ) , b i,e changed when the change was obviously- for the pug good; and in this view he had always acted acc`institu. to the prospect before him —according to the l e k wa s lion which he did not frame, but wider whic h " e re , born, and which he certainly did not wish to oVert:lsoo (Cheers.) It crae proposed, some time ae o, th a _ s o:- Most important change seould be made in the enticed tion of the House of Commons. He sus not distil) deli' by reverses; but, after ten years of dieion eu _ Jir o beration, he had the satisfaction of geeing he disree I of Parliament adopted. Ile did not say l/ a u all respect 3 greet rc a ' rct , for the constitution, because the Bill : bog , adopted at once.--(Hear.) Then he proposedu a o we ro T al bee i s t e 'L eok th e s t. of great consequence with respect to religio , re . , s a ac• namely, the Corporation and Test Acts. gewl'but be cessful in his first attempt to repeal these lave, eete had in the first instance, rented to the substitution obfyawdscycicafrateiC)nra.P commutation of tithes, he remembered that the or i and some lion. Members did him the honour etetiPb°o-0,13t out that his measure did not meet the wishes .. I , e d to exactly whom it most concerned. He aces the their proposition, and by that mean' 6e 1 1 1 6 0 a c le enactment of his measure. He might rac e 0 00 rions . other matters, but this he thought Wis l i t tle to show that great good might arise fro°,3teeotion. timely sacrifice of pride and extent of origina l le i , be° The Honourable Gentleman appeared not I _ , . ed .bie forgotten the words in which he once stalehoed oinion that the Honourable Member f eß b ie l i d iefa' narrow views on certain points. The foriouraboa ore ber seemed on that occasion, as he frequentli we re 6 to think that the aristocracy of this countrf to cl be, class quite independent of others in the countriithe ree' said he thought that was a narrow vie w of question. h e trOu his Mr. BRIG lIT—I can save the Noble Lord t._, to tbe of the rest of the illustration. I was not referrletst dis• matter he has been speaking of, but to the 1110, cos. tribution of the representatives of the people I° , atituencies. , eo llee, Lord JOHN RUSSELL—It was a matter Offr;e : tion. He (Lord John Russell) was speaking e t h e rs fi ll o f learning in the Church or in the law, 0! of ° of , sll 8 had achieved distinguished positions in t r oti o or the 6 whom had arrived at some of the highest bce r i a tocr6 c ; Peerage, and formed as proud a part of th e o s o teet h il i - 0 . as any who could claim descent from an t o t onlY e - i 0 He thought, and maintained, that it was Lead of unfounded fact, contrary to all they an d . ly °l ' history, and were seeing every day. , B °, d o°lfse act' if believed, would have a vaiseblec-ioes l a t e and by the ultimate disunion of the e oelPlt which it aimed, would ultimately lea d t° I%istie mbar subversion of the constitution at proent e ll g 130 was for that reason that he thought th e iilderitiFeidi at.r)ristMeearielecyhester was quite mistaken 1 0 c °ll i. s tinc t u 0 vided from tahse arespta.rt On n f thethe ceoemeentruenryitT ibleyoesfoeprioe,eaat completely and desirably connected with I ° s 4 4trie, ° ` o , large, that their ranks were continually bei ti g - ite P ° d by the most meritorious and deserving- tie 0 01 15 11) Gentleman was not satisfied with the 1, 01 : 10 he 13° 5 : 4' e ati the eight-pound franchise. He ( 10c1 idbo fe - Oil' wanted the same thing, and he wished it c ° ,?, l eitt- „ r s. carried through the other House of Pa t h o o: to jections had been taken to the conduct 0 ' w esse t "bot went in having delayed bringing forward loeticies'itei correct the deficiency of the Irish had be ep ' 1 , 1 ,, o t. the famine with which the countrY, 11_,5`1.0adis'ti. brought with it calamities which require° I b ti cl 0 P t beir tention and relief, and they thought ° es t e ] w ede ' ot mount claim upon their consideration, al l the y d id I li ei; redress pressed so forcibly upon them', ueatl,o think it was a time to introduce a political ( I too ) Teel he st' that it was more fit to postpone it. ( g e st, d ot blame to themselves for the dels,Y. -- ` pass e eias This year they brought forward this Bill , 1 : 0 site, re o t l oo o, House, and went up to the Lords, 04 1 1 he IYlheir were made in it. The constituency I ° u - fo rth 4 i i° That was a great good, and he conceredl' . be !T r io while to pass it. With regard to the WI/ t he : at if specific course to propose to either sido we nt ' 4 of constituenciee were contented with it, ye l l e f e elit l e la be it did not give satisfaction, and excited str t n t : r it sh' eo leo disapproval, and it was found nreessarY T o tie I ' l oo extended, their consent to this Bill we el ,(l - le sr 'e O f ulvinhodyerhtandesim' asiolhatoerudlediirnncuutmohtsehtracenraefeitnse:rt instance r i ° r• 1 0 0 einisp o r rs o ft ieo di toi e i n order constitution of this country g ive gres r°sPe 1 if'' ,to a d P t bel the people to of , promote the happluess %eel j the country, and toperman- e l l e preserve the ber abed stitutions. Mr. 4 , ble o f Li' L i M CULLAGII said, one no ri as e, uo - :1 to have the Bill as it came from the - ti :loll c l ot , ' He could not consent to thee Tha t vi tt)); ii i c a oc l3 , ll : the principle of the Bill. which it Wa s iitv of 'OP" : was that something like an eq ue- i of tbe 0 01 ; ter libel; a 0 should be given to Ireland with the res t 00 hi n iello That principle was asserted in that Ped-ba6,°, e eli i , ties of 58 and 69. It was now intil'anteed 10' ) j or u t strong feeling was manifested in ifl o P id tlill , bii be a permanent Bill. Ile did no t in the in 0 1 ; responsible for the alterations made urit iao Ptieh. so, gentlemen opposite, who were in in tri n d hi t h e 11, 0 , mittee, to fix the qualification at 15 1 1 61 re ise l f fit,,( ample induced the House of Lords g ouge ° A si,"it chile. A Noble Lord, in the other ee t ber e ', l leah, ment, who was not without great influene;to P' ce ec e 1; 1 the Bill which this House had Pas seci d a d A IO would enfranchise the rubbish of Irelann;toteim,k 00d0r, elections under the influence of th, a rWen''' / 6 "1 . ~ l ee , o eci franchise proposed by the Member ''' h r a t of 'IA t he give a constituency of 110,000, and t" i d gir e o for , ic t , ported by the Secretary for Ireland, w ee t • 26,0 , t co' o . so that it would create a difference 0 be jorg e i fr . ! • whole of the constituency. In five °,f,, i 0 °,. 0 6 `;,0 ties in the province of Cunnaugnief 9,00010/ chise would give a constituency but ° sob , 01 0 0 , 11 re' franchise of 121. would give 1,174- t bill '',ol° d el ask whether, even if they consented tc .bor ds Y i t i alic qualification, they knew whether gh ttos ° " li ef jeet it. He had no alternative to ell eb ei lls Wa s b vote for neither. tion n on e 'hiB ' Mr. M. O'CONNELL said then uo d or - too ' g. they should have a franchise for ell t 01. re tti s e o thought 8/. too high, and now fb°ug g ree ns ° I) , r vii but he thought the Bill contained oneud. tide is the mode of reeistration. lie ! e r r e /o e ti ld e b e e n slj :;, l good, the fact that the registratio he e re e t , to. -- ,be r o° without the solicitation of the voteid or. h er 1 that a great advantage. He should , in e in ~,a e e of the Noble Lord, and take every means I OW e bo" TJ L ' e to improve it hereafter. dell; to 01l Mr. SHEIL said the Member for n° l3 oo ,ver at ig ls ,: s the case as if the Noble Lord had, 11:1 :i l t vrn 6 4 . - 00 5`) ra i i . the House of Lords to pass the 8i1,,,,i ° ics a tic'pei / o ) af i proposed, but he could not do so. 4 1 °'? w e o h e hope that the Lords would retrace thell6otioni 006.050 had adopted the principle of eell'regisilOnti°l3the ri o ol3 they rejected it in one case. Tbe, (oll ,oc l i n d i te ab f se t and in buth cases—in the couettes why . T ed boroughs—and there was no reas o° the 0 0 ,: f eli c c er adopt it in the one case and reject it !Il e 1 1art'd 06 0 0 retention of the wouldym vrould g iv . t era l 5 1 1 0° 0 ° aeeitation, which involve the ten, 5 0 A r o 3 o fe dotal p interests ose t ha in a n a pseprppeeatiufarlomwrestle. ~ecote)o cor 5 cor3; 11 0 a e bio ei co would not reach a 151. franchise liai"brietingeg te b t e irr ° chise. Father O'Sitaugnessy 1001" roe cb ie h at 'O.l . gregation, and give notice of the IP be pe I , r eo ott a r serve notices to register. He w° lll° ,,erl el l e a tri c that day week they would . all have se x ''' . ti 9 ij I V ‘' and be their country.—(Laughter and " ge ar ' 0 0C 1 P; tbejeir t i prepared at the nexe election to v 0 r.') Murphy is touched by the invitetima, utio of 1 .0 .0 0,, hw w eh e a l er li ? a a n ee p o o s s t serve the necessary notice. tit,lo til ee t , l is h ie if is o l el Murphys s es h s i e m rs ionf thisthe tw.asbiols::::‘ectl3l6,:e gAr-0,,,5,01ii whic h reacP bo isol v oti ac e o e c i 1 and bonding low with obsequious s° 0 .0 to e yli wag , t tal° os 6 / 1 ; / same time displaying his gray, von f ,po D e p) takesri yooffuligiisvhenatt:otice to rieg'he, t; ,.0, o ; 0 i Fathe r po l l ' 0 0.3 11 words—" Father O'Shaugnee*e• Father O'Shaugnessy. " 0 r 0 DI i Does , Thes e be to . ,r -know that you have no lease? wou ld 0 1104 constitutional influences which a be e b j had bleb 000' boar upon the registrations aria heY es i e e 0' . t ra ; die the Lords. He objected to om i ' o f reg i t l i e Pd'v made in the self-acting priaeiPicht4llol ii3,,eftVolsej, I would in fact be an appeal for the ; io n sv ie ce ti . 14 those who thought eeeresy better ~,e l. O eil itt ill! n oro , (Hear.) The amendments made ,r,„,ir tu e to e yol? agitation. He did not, however, 0 . `4", eat° ye ot h eo el would change their course when ii" they . c ofcch o co l t,s the consequences. He did not ( IV o ll f4or tie O r d t i eretion of Lord Stanley. Tha t ft light ,iiP e 4 0 , , Emancipation Act was passe d, --° Od i - A I tr - ' I too high. In the case of the R e f0r 0 , 3 00 , e rc..,.. 0 ill Ai oath by which the franchise 074 g. ist A , by 1 0 ' 1 b irll it ;" a l who gave an intellectual qualificatle a tion , i e rPe ll ee 'll e o/ tion of the system of national edu c me te , r eP , 0 1, , meesure of wisdom, and was bis b i g w ool", t ho, o , ' l " 8 h"eause it stood alone. He, tat,, 11 " ter e t iA P e his advent to power would be the Sign trade. 10,1 j of unseen doings, whereby partY•`v •.0 d° ken if. IP so rile ta e re t o berties of the people under act r °- wer e es - 3 0 • ° Mr. DISRAELI said objeons ~,0 t bei co revil other branch of the Legislature true oe be o, C o `o ,l fe privilege Curiterred upon them or u lil,, Lo P i gli / of There wets no reason to say there u e e t 0 . -- 0 ii) e vy bt seen the Houses. The 1-I°tbseat 1 0 0 0 e ll eis ll agree to the tropposal now made, o . _ ,t ,e s 0 ,he ~oi jeet it. Hr complained of herd Isi b e ,e f, Di is 01.Ke , troduced into the debate, as it 61 etitic°,,aec alile ee ti go.- ifi Or' un eo.. „ tie 4 0) 4 ~r fir Manchester, which was might fetter the freed om of debate4o ' to e. I , ' • :peirs , in their discretion, had preeumed t en Wit . 0 0., rii tions in this Bill. The Bill '''' eilt Pr lit le° 0 511° Ll ele ro': chise. It came down with a 15-1 (113 1 4 e1. 11.6° 0 545 le be a on ' l ip) was proposed that it shoe... , er ds oat , e f question between the House of -r i e treoe,,,tre'eli ment was between a let and u 1 ",...., 1 3. 100 i question was the self-aetwe',oo - was a point upon which there ,' ROUSE OF COMMONS, July 30. BARON ROTHSCHILD—ADJOURNED DEBATE. (Continued fronaour Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that he - was desirous of expressing as distinctly as he could the view which he had formed upon this subject. He could say that in coming to a conclusion he had en deavoured to divest himself of every personal feeling. Upon every previous occasion upon which this question had been brought before the House he had voted for the admission of Jews into Parliament, and upon a farmer occasion he had expressed his opinion upon the propriety of that measure. At the same time he considered that, on looking at this question, he had two things to consider with respect to the wishes which he himself might have upon the subject. He earnestly wished . that Baron Rothschild should be admitted a Member of that House, and that all persons of the same persuasion should sit and vote there like wise. But he was bound to discard every feeling of that description the functions which the House had to perform were purely judicial, not quasi-judicial, but purely judicial, and it was de sirable to express this more strongly, because it was impossible not to perceive that very strong personal feel ings had been excited as to whether Baron Rothschild could sit in that House.—(Hear, hear.) He con fessed that on looking at this question it was important to look at the position in which it now stood. The Hon. and Learned Member for Abingdon had moved for a new writ for the city of London, and the Hon. and Learned Member for Oxford had moved as an amendment that the seat was tilted. He could not think that the course which the lion. and Learned Member for Abingdon had taken was the one best to be pursued, even if his view of the case were correct. H.. would now refer to what took place in the case of Mr. O'Connell. He was quite ready to admit that there was seine difference between the two cases. As it appeared from, the journals, Mr. O'Connell was called upon on Friday and flaked if he would take the oaths, and he stated ho was content to take the oaths of allegiance and abjuration but not the oath of supremacy; therefore the debate was adjourned, and on the Monday following he was heard at the bar. On the following day he was called again to the bar, and Mr. Speaker asked him if he refused to take the oaths, and on his replying that he did refuse, the House came to a resolution that he was not entitled to a seat in the House. I Bat there was some distinction between that case and the present ; the Hon. Member for the city of London bad not refused to take the oath of abjuration.— (Cheers.) The House had, however, come to the con clusion that he had not taken the oath in the form prescribed ; and, perhaps, out of respect to the forms of the House, it might be proper to call him again to the table, and ask him if he refused to take the oath in any other form than that in which he had taken it.— (Cries of " No.") If he refused, then the view taken by the Hon and Learned Member for Abingdon might be the most correct one under the circumstances. But with respect to the- real question itself, he confessed he had considerable difficulty in com ing to the conclusion which appeared to him to be the right and proper conclusion, but which he admitted he had arrived at with considerable pain. If he were sitting as a judge on this case, and had to decide ac cording to the obligation of the oath, and was anxious to do justice between the parties, he could not say in his owe mind that the Hon. Member for the city of London had taken the oath of abjuration in the form prescribed by the Act of Parliament.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He confessed he came to that con clusion with very great regret, but still it was his duty to communicate it to the House. (Continued cheering.) He had listened with very great pleasure'and interest to the extremely able arguments of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Oxford (Mr. Page Wood)—(Hear)--but though he knew him to be actuated by the sincerest of motives, he regretted that he had cot produced the same effect on his mind as he had done on that of his own, and that he (Mr. Attorney-General) was obliged to come to a different conclusion. He was not able to get over what appeared to him to be the plain and common sense meaning of the Act which im posed the oath. He could not, however, doubt that if the question had been raised before the affirmation had been made on the oath of abjuration, that it was neces sary that he should affirm that he was a Christian. Mr. Pease would have had no objection to have made such affirmation.—(Hear, hear.) It was Clear that affirmation by statute was to be taken us equivalent to an oath in the case of Quakers. With respect to the observations that had been made by his Honourable and Learned Friend the Member for Oxford; upon the Sd and 4th William IV., passed subsequent to the casaof Mr. Pease, they appeared to him to have a contrary tendency to that which he contended fur, as by that statute Par- liament appeared determined to put an end to all doubt, and if such an Act had been passed in the case:of Baron Rothschild, all doubt would have been cured. But then, supposing it to be clear that Parliament meant in the 1 case of Mr. Pease to put an end to all doubt, the ques tion then would come round, would it be right for Par liament to pass an Act for a similar purpose in the case [of the Baron Rothschild. Another statute had been pressed on the attention of the Houie'as the mainstay of the question; he alluded to the declaratory statute of the Ist and 2d of the Queen. Now there was nothing in that statute that 'required thee•oftth to be administered in a particular form, but the Act liable e l or n provided th a t w h en " t h e party h a d ta k en the ( the aparticu larf es )rm as m th u e ch p a a s irtlit should d take b n e in the regular way. But his Ho n , Friend . had said that the oath was no oat h, or that if it was . it was of no use at all. If such was the case tb to remove the atatate Varlet: rop7' course would be statue-book ; but if tbat required it from the the House would be, 'in esrs,, rsvi vwias adopted oath was useless, and ought to he • si " ng that the and that it had not the power to dO except disilsed with, Parliament. He admitted.what had been b- an Act of Hon. and Learned Friend, with respect to sj 3 a e ted by his law and the steps which they take in cleeidihg : e lites 'of ing of Acts of Parliament, but he could - n o t say taettr thought the rule of courts of law ought alway s t o prevail i n that House. It was not at all uncommon for courts of law virtually to repeal Acts of Parliament—(Cheers.) Th e statute of uses and the statute of frauds had been vir tually repealed by them.—(Cheers.) Well now, be bad always considered that it was not a wise course for a court of justice to pursue. Courts of justice, how ever, hal been much stricter in modern times. At no time was it a wise thing even for a court of justice to dispense with an Act of Parliament, or to argue itself out of it; but it appeared to . him to be still more incum bent upon the House to keep Acts of Parliament strictly inviolable, and not to alter or change them in any way without the sanction of the other branches of the Legis lature. If it did the most dangerous results would ffrllow. Observe what was to be done in this case. The House was to strike out of the oath the words "on the true faith of a Christian," because the Baron Lionel de Rothschild did not think them binding upon his conscience. Well, 'but was not it jest possible if they agreed to that proposiOon, that hereafter some othei persons might for the same reason demand that some other part of the oath should be omitted?—(Cheers.) In voting that the Banes de Rothchild should be woes upon! the Old l'ita-