The Sun. — London, England, 1845-04-25 00:00:00

avow his determination lo support that Church, and yet adopt ' a line of 'Kiley which would unquestionably lead to its speedy and utter destruction. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government said he introduced this measure for the purpose of conciliating the Roman Catholics, but did not the representatives of the Roman Catholic Church (Mr. Sheil and others) denounce the Protestant Cbnrch in Ireland as the most intolerable and monstrous of all anomalies, and that to conciliate the Irish Catholics it was quite clear the Pro testant Church establishment there must be overthrown. The Right Hon. Baronet at the bead of the Government said last session that he would support the Established Church in Ire land which had been established by compact, but he added this important condition :—" Unless an overwhelming neces sity of public policy compels me to change my opinion." He (Mr. Colquhoun) did not think it would require a very strong pressure to induce this change in the Right Hon. Gentleman's sentiments.—( Hear, hear.) So that that Church for which they had so long, so perseveringly, and so unitedly struggled, in opposition, must, in the opinion of the Right Hon.,Baronet, yield to the pressure of public opinion. The condition made by him was a plank wide enough for any Ministry on that side of the House to join with the Honourable Members for Sheffield and Montrose, and sweep away the Protestant Church in Ireland. He had heard with surprise and regret a portion of the speech of the Right Horn. Baronet at the head of the Government, and did not think it wise or prudent for a Minister of the Crown to utter—he spoke of the difficulties with which the Government of Ireland was beset—the combinations which existed there— and in two sentences after, alluded to " the threatening clouds on the other side of the Atlantic ;" and further, that he reflected with satisfaction that before the arrival of ne ws of a hostile aspect from America, a message of peace had been sent to Ireland.— ( Rear, hear). If it were right to establish Maynooth, let them do it; but let him not attempt to fetter his judgment by such terror.--( Hear, hear). Such language might suit the Conciliation Hall, but hardly became a British Minister. Nor was it at all suited to conviece the Howe of Commons. The French . papers, in discussing the Maynooth Bill, said it A as a concession to Irish agitation. If there were differences with America or France, he felt sure that all parties in that House would unite in assisting the Government to take that course whiah became the honour, the interest, and the dignity of England. The Noble Lord, no doubt, was quite sure that he should be unwcrthy the confidence of a: great party, and un worthy that name which had never been stained by the impu tation of cowardice, if he came down to that House, and said that, though he could not overcome the arguments and the rea soning of his Hon. Friend, pointing to the wars threatening in the east and west, he should appeal to their fears of the disasters they were about to encounter. The poorest labourer in the country would put on the garb of a soldier sooner than submit to it.—(Hear, hear.) He held in his hand a statement which was made in the Freeman's Journal, the organ of the Irish priesthood, and he found the language contained in it to be this :—" The English yield (this valuable boon, no) this paltry ' civility, with an agony as ifshe were yielding her life. The con cession which the grant foreshadows has not been won by cringing, or by giving any servile gratitude for benefits which she has won herself." These were the expectations of political gratitude which they ought to entertain for the boon which they were now conferring, and this boon would lead immediately to further and much greater concessions. The Members for Newcastle and Edinburgh complained of the union of all classes of Protestant Dissenters on this subject, and the Hon. Mem ber for Sheffield told them, if they took twenty-six thousand pounds from the property of the Established Church in Ire land, it would put an end to their complaints, and assuage the Irish people. If the position taken by the Dissenters was only a mercenary one, their opposition could not be so heating or strenuous. The objections of the Dissenters to their giving anything to the Roman Catholic establishment were these : They objected on two grounds; they objected to it on ac count of the voluntary principle, aad also on account of their dissent on religious matters. The Hon. Member for Dungarvon complained that the Church of Scotland had been made a free church. Let him tell the Honourable Gentleman the grounds on which that part of the Presbyterian Church became free. Was it not, because when they came to the House they refused them the supremacy they looked for, and yet they saw them giving to the Roman Catholic Church what they refused to the free church ? On these grounds they opposed the grant to Maynooth. Honourable Members complained of their dread of being extravagant, but were they to pare down the feelings of hard-working, honest Englishmen to their principles ? And were they to say to them that they should not come before the House with petitions expressing their feelings in whatever language they pleased ?—( Hear, hear.) They also complained of the speeches that were made at meetings to petition against the Maynooth grant ; but if they referred to the proceedings at Covent Garden they might find Honourable Members at the other side of the House making speeches in not the most mild or most temperate language.— ( Hear, hear.) He, himself was attacked for having taken the chair at one of those meetings, but he did not think that he or any other chairman woulal be responsible for all that had been said at a public meeting. If so, they should give up public meetings altogether. They would pot be deterred, he would tell the Hon Member for Sheffield, by any lapse from principle on the part of the Government, from supporting their own sober convictions. When be heard the sketch given last night by the Hon. Member for Edinburgh. of the history of Ireland, he could not help thinking of one of those words by which Mr. O'Connell often was in the habit of appealing to the passions of his Irish auditors when he denominate.! the Irish opposed to him, and the English opposed to him, as "Saxons." And if they referred to the national songs, they would find that word " Saxon " occurring frequently in the songs which were at this day circulated in every part of Ireland. There could not be a doubt that the Saxons, as he called them, occupied Ire land by successive invasions, and planted their foot on Celtic soil ; but the conduct of these foreign landlords was anythii t bet politic or wise; they kept down the Irish Celt by severe and cruel laws. inflicted on him harsh exactions, and took no pains in his social or moral improvement. And as for the Irish Church being a church fed with wealth, it was a church which was starved to absolute inanition up to the last fifty years, by the same selfishness of the Irish landed proprietors; but then same a better age, that awoke the leople to a consciousness of their duties, and the Church then returned f rom th e po s iti on t o which it ha d fallen, until it came at last to a more healthy and better condition, which was within the last fifty years. They could not have a better link between them and the people at this time, than the labours of men of zeal, men of education, and men of charity, disehargin,e - their benevolent duties in the heart of a wild and rude nation. He hail seen an example of this when he.visited the residence of his Hon. Friend the Member for Bandon, in the neighbourhood of which place Roman Catholics were scattered through a very wide district. Ile recollected accompanying a man who was at present aalignitary of the Irish Church, and who was then rather advanced in years, having spent a bon life and buried great talents in an ob.cure and charitable object, through these districts, and he could not forget how he was received by those very Roman Catholics ; the termer desisted from his labour, the cottage was opened, and the parent and child,whom he had relieved from distress, rose to receive him, and he saw that there was one great catholicity of benevolence and kindness triumphant over all, welding together discordant creeds and discordant feelings in one b ins! of true and lasting attachment. If ever they did away with that Church, and neglected those men, the truest link between them and the population that surrounded them, then he would say that the best days of Ireland's prosperity were numbered. On these grounds he would for ever defend the maintenance of the Irish Church. and should give to the motion of the Hon. Member fur Shef field the most strenuous opposition. Mr. BATESON said that be, as an Irish Protestant and a member of the Established Church of that country, felt him self compelled, by a sense of duty, to raise his feeble voice against the monstrous and iniquitous measure proposed by the Hen. Member for Sheffield. He felt opposed to it on the grounds of its great injustice. He thought that he (Mr. Bateson) had as much right to come down to the House and propose that the property of the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Ward) should be devoted to the Roman Catholic clergy for educational purposes, as he had to come and make this motion. The honour of that House was pledged to keep the compact un touched and inviolate. He hoped, however, that this liberality would not be one-sided, and he trusted that the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government would take into his consideration the claims of the Unitarians of Ulster, and would render them as much pecuniary assistance as would enable them to carry out their objects. They were about to endow 3faynoeth College liberally, and already they had passed the Charitable Bequests Act. And why did they do ail thi s , b ut on the shallow• pretence of conciliation ? Ilut what had been the result of this conciliation? Why, the demands of the kloman Catholics had been increased, and the lion. Member for Dungarvon went so far as to say, they would not he satisfied until they were placed on a footing with the Pro testants of Trinity College. The House had been told that the root of all evil was the Protestant Church. Now, as a Protestant landlord and a Protestant soldier, he repudiated all those assertions. But let any Hon Member in that llonse get up and tell him, from the bottom of his heart, that the Protestant Church was either a curse or an injury to Ireland. No, he defied any Hon. Member to prove anything of the sort. The Church, instead of being a cfrse, was a great benefit and blessing to Ireland. Mr. BARING was anxious to explain, in a few words, the vote he was about to give on the present occasion, and he was anxious that the House should bear with him 'for a few mo ments while he stated the grounds upon which he was pre pared to, vote with the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, and op pvsse the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield. fie felt compelled to address the House, becau se hi s Ri g ht H on. Filencl the Member for Edinburgh. in his able speech last night, stated that the House was divided on this question into two raa:ties-,tiemeli, those who were prepared to vote with his Hon. Friend, and those who were ready to vote against hint, and to say . thal the property of the Irish Church should be maintained inviolate. Now ' although he should vote against the motion elf his'lronourable Friend, he was not prepared to be included in the latter category. He did not consider that by supporting the Bill as it now stood he was precluded hereafter from cping into its principle, and the principle upon which Irish th e hurch ought to be maintained. He believed the Bill of the , cievernment would prove a great boon and benefit to Ireland, " 44 1 1 4 :e.was therefore earnestly desirous that it should, in its rll4-ibein, be carried into effect, and in doing so he did not Z,"_ 4 !_l_te was opposing eith er hi s f ormer o pi n i ons or p r i nc ipl es . not bo und und to support an amendment brought forward by course own party when he thought it was to injure Friend vagie. which he wished to pursue. His Hon. froui bath s ago a ?r o pose d that they should withdraw all ssspport aspittion of his Hon. g • lishments in Ireland. That was the ,that opinion stil l , of three years ago, and whether he re tainedsay. .Well, two years a o course , he (Mr. Baring) could not he wished to withdraw all support 'from the two establishm ents. :pay all .or what I said was, WA—NO. ; " If you pay the Ch urc h, pay RM none." Mr.. BARING continued—Athoaull events he was correct not in the particular in the sense of his Hon. Friend, 'expression; but be that as it might, he g r himself od believed the Bill n ue! great benefit in cos be a practical proposition, likely to practical man ought to :Ireland, and he-thought the course of P a m. me asure, than tile rather to support what was in realit P a good be, was at • upport a resolution which, however wise it events very ill-timed. Entertaining these vie ws, s, he was riot prepared to throw any difficulty in the way of 'e th e Govern_ of common sensethenwmust know anent measure. Everybody that they could not pass the Bill into a law if the a o It the-proposal of his Hon. Friend the MembererfoertoSaffix j-eld. His Honourable Friend, however, with perfect franknesshef" I t &tared that he did not bring forward his measure to c bstruct the principle of the Bill, but for the sak e of introduc eg and laying down a great principle. His Hon. Friend said t was the first step taken in a course which would hereafter f ,ave to-be more extensively carried out; and it was, therefore, .st elvisable that they should sketch out the principles by which t were always to be guided in that course. But did his fin. Friend tell him what those great principles were ? If et :see was-any advantage to be obtained in making these princi- F 'es known to the people of England, they should at any rate • lake them intelligible and distinct. He could not understand o hat the particular principles were which his Honour- O tile Friend wished to enunciate in his amendment.— ( lean ) If the endowment of the Catholic Church was to b .1 - considered as the principle, what did it matter whether it to ere endowed from the Consolidated Fund or from the (uncle a the Established Church ? That question might be reserved Ae. after; consideration. If it was expedient to state some p iticiple to the -people of England,- -by which they would b noafter be guided, of course it was no less expedient that they should state that principle clearly and distinctly, but he a 'dossed the present was not the most favourable period fe r laying those principles down. He was not surprised at the difference of opinion which reigned on his own side of the Blouse. It was one of the great difficulties of legislating on sock a subject. Was it then advisable to lay down at that mouissit, and while the House was in this state of indecision of principle, what should hereafter determine the course they were to pursue Were not the difficulties already sufficiently incumbering, without calling upon them to lay down the principles which should hereafter guide them epon this ques tion? then, let them deal with the evils as they at pre sent found them, and not state the principles to the people of England which they might hereafter find it necessary to withdraw from. If this measure were granted, the peace and satisfaction that would be certain to follow it in Ireland, would more than repay this country for a much greater conca sion.—( Hear. ) He had no apprehension that it would not pass, for the real:and only feeling of hostility against it as a Roman Catholic mea sure was exhibited only by the Protestant Dissenters. But, he would ask, was it not likely that other feelings of hostility would be raised to it, if this motion were persevered in? He feared that Hon. Members on his side of the House were not sufficiently sensible of the apprehension that such was likely to occur. He did not en tertain those conscientious objections to the grant that others did; on the contrary, he did think, as a Protestant, that it would be for the advantage of the Protestant Church to have its present temporalities reconsidered, and those scandals—(he did not say it offensively)—of which so much bad been said of it, removed.—( Hear, hear.) He did believe it would be a great blessing to Ireland if the Government endowed the Ro man Catholic Church, provided it was not done in such a way as to make either the people or the clergy feel that that grant had placed them either in a degraded or servile position.— ( Hear, hear.) He believed that this grant would not only be a blessing to Ireland, but an act of policy by this country, and one worthy of the cause of Christianity.—( Hear, hear.) He was well aware that there were very many Protestants who were firm supporters of their religion, but were ready to admit that the Establishment had its abuses, and that they ought to be removed; yet he doubted very much if the taking away of the funds of one establishment to support another would be likely to give satisfaction.—(Hear, hear.) One thing was quite clear, and that was, that the English as well as the Irish people felt deeply upon this question ; and, therefore, he would say, that if the Government could give this boon to Ireland without giving dissatisfaction to England, ho would be prepared to support it.—( Cheers. ) Mr. BERNAL said he regretted that he felt himself called upon to oppose the views of his Right Hon. Friend who had just sat down, and in doing so he should do him the justice to say that he had expressed his sentiments upon this question, that evening, in that bold, upright, and comprehensive manner, that did him honour, and showed that he was incapable of utter. ing any sentiment that he did not feel the truth and justice of in his heart.—(Hear, hear.) But the reasons alleged and the arguments used by his Right Hon. Friend, for the vote he in tended to give, were not satisfactory to him, nor were they such as would deter him (Mr. Bernal) from giving his support to his Hon. Friend Mr. Ward's motion. He would not enter upon any long argument, in addition to those adduced by his Hon. Friend, in support of his motion ; but he would endeavour to confine himself as much as passible to the merits of the motion itself.—( Hear, Hear.) His Honourable Friend had said that the present Parliament should not do any act by which to fetter the acts of future legislation ; but how did he propose to remove the difficulty ? Did the Hon. Member suppose that the proposition of the Right Hon._ Baronet was such a one as could not be disturbed hereafter ? He (Mr. Bernal) would contend for it, that there were inhe rent difficulties in the way of legislating effectively upon this subject, which would always embarrass it.—( Hear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend had said that in legislating upon this Euestion, regard should be had to the opinions of the people of ngland; but, at the same time, it should not be forgotten that they should also legislate conscientiously, and in such a manner as they conceived they were bound as legislators to do. —( Hear, hear.) He was not one of those who had bound him self to that shadow of a party, or that ghost of a section— ( Laughter)—called the Irish Church party.--( Hear, hear. ) But, at the same time, he never would be one to lend himself to what was called the destruction of the Irish Church.— ( Hear, hear.) But when he had heard Hon. Members in that House declare, in the course of this debate, that at the time of the Union a bond was entered into, by which the Irish Church Establishment was to be held hence forth inviolable, he would ask what had they not already them in regard td that establishment?—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Had they not since considerably narrowed the whole of the Ecclesiastical Establishment in Ireland?—( Hear, hear.) Had they not dealt summarily with the tithe question ? —( near, hear.) If so, then, he would say, they slsould now, once and for ever, abandon this fanciful condition.—(Cheers. ) He would say, if they meant to act in this same way for the future, there was nothing in the history of the past to render the pursuit of such a course inconsistent.—(Hear, hear.) He had heard the Hon. Member for Newcastle declare that he was inviolably attached to the Church Establishment, both from principle and ss a matter of State policy. He (Mr. Bernal) regretted that the lion. Member was not in his place, or he would be ready to answer him.—( Hear, hear.) He had also heard other Hen. Members make use of language in reference to this, question, that was not very creditable.—( Hear, hear.) He had heard of such expressions as the " No Popery" cry, and Popish domination and ascendancy, and that the Catholics were treasonable subjects to the Queen and Constitution ; but he would say he held such language in the greatest detestation, and he repudiated it.—( Cheers.) Ten years ago he heard similar language used, when the Houses of Parliament were burnt, and therefore he would hold no alli ance with such persons, as it would be impossible for such to conduct the discussions of that House in that calmness of tone and temper by which they should be regulated.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) He did not think the motion of the Hon. Mem ber for Sheffield would remove the difficulty that lay in the way of this questi n ; bur it would tend to soften it doen ; but the moment the present Government put forward this grant in the shape of a Bill, then indeed it became an endowment of the College of Maynooth.—( Heir, hear.) He had seen by some of the papers that certain persons supported this measure because it would have the effect, they said, of increasing Protestantism in Ireland if once the priests were well educated. —( Laughter.) He would like to know, from the Right lion. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), why, if this measure had been deemed so necessary for Ireland, it hod not been granted ten years ago? The Right lion. Baronet had stated that he made the concession because he feared war was impending; and that, he (Mr. Bernal) should say, was, at the very least, an indiscreet speech, for th, night lion. Baronet had no right to prftpose the mea eat All, if he did not intend it as a beneficial measure. This question nail been reiterated in the ears of the House risque ad nauseutu, and it would be repeated continually even if the Speaker should live to the age of 3lethwelah.—( Loud laughter.) Ile (Mr. Bernal) contended that the state of things at present existing in Ireland could not continue. If they wished to maintain it, they mix,t do so by means of brute force, and not be argument. lie thought it was possible for two establishments to exist together in Ireland, but not on the same ground as they did at present. In parts of Rhenish Germany the Protestants and Catholics lived together in the utmost harmony. In parts of Switzerland axd Germany, it was a frequent thing fur the Pro testants to u'e the temple of worship in the morning, and the Catholics in the evening_ It had been said the Catho lics of Ireland wished for the destruction of the Established Chure!v in Ireland. He believed that no sich wish existed. He believed that, many of the Catholic Members of that House would not desire to see the Established Church in Ireland broken up. lie (Mr. Bernal) would support the measure conscientiously, and fearless of the result. He believed it would be a beneficial measure, and therefore nothing should deter him frotyt supporting it. . Captain GLADSTONE said he wished to speak with all due respect of those gentlemen who, from the place he repre sented, had petitioned the House against this grant He be lieved them to be actuated by conscientious motive;; but, having made up his mind to support the grant to Mai no ith, he could not support the prayer of those individuals. He was not ashamed to confess that he had felt consi ferable difficulty in coming to a conclusion on this question. Ile did not mean to say so far as regarded the mere question of an increase of the grant to Maynooth, for as to the necessity of that he had made up his mind; and he thought that the present measure ought not to be considered in that light alone. His convic tion was, that the increased grant was absolutely necessary. He had himself visited Maynooth, and he could confirm the statement which had been made b y his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the G overnment, that it was in a disgraceful state, and resembled a deserted barrack more than anything else. They had heard the declarations of many who had been cm nected with this institution that it was not commodious. He believed that the present state of Maynooth was disgraceful and not creditable to its connection with the State, and that some change ought to take place. As far as regarded the reli gious part of this question, he would say that he had the strongest feeling Lir the Protestant religion, and he had, he trusted, an equ d respect for the religion of his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen. There were those who objected to this grant, believing it to be dangerous to the Church, and to the rause of Protestantism. He confessed that he could not bring himself to believe that this would be the case. If the effect of this mcasure should be to give a more liberal education to those who were hereafter to become the priests of Ireland—if it were to give an increase of comfort to them during their stay at Mayneoth, he believed that it would be beneficial to the country, and when those individuals left the College of 31a)neoth, ,they would not forget the source from which they had obtained such education and such com forts. It was generally known, that the feelings with which the students at Maynooth left that College were not the most favourable to the general peace and welfare of the country. During his visit to the Witte of Maynooth—and here he wished to bear his testimony to the courtesy and kindness evinced by the Rev. President of that institution—during his visit to that College he put this question to the President, "Suppose a large and more liberal endowment were made to the College of Maynooth, do you think the effect of it would be to in duce the higher classes of the Roman Catholics to send their sons there for the purpose of becoming priests?" and the an swer to that question had surprised him. The answer was, " The higher classes do not exist"—he meant of course that they did not exist in sufficient numbers to fill up the priesthood of Ireland. He (Captain Gladstone) supported the grant, be cause he thought it would be beneficial to I. eland ; but he felt perfectly at liberty hereafter to vote against any endow ment. lie thought the measure had been brought forward at a proper time, and in a proper spirit. He did not believe it had been brought forward through fear, but that it had been pro posed simply to benefit Ireland. But while he said this he would contend for the supremacy of the Protestant Church in Ireland. He conceived that a prescription of 300 years was enough to establish that supremacy, and should it ever be attacked it would be !Mind that the motto of its supporters was still no surreed-r. Lord HOWICK said he agreed to a great extent in what had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend the Member fur Ports mouth (Mr. Baring). He certainly did not concur with him in his concluding observation, but he did agree with him that the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield was not submitted to the House in a convenient form, or on a con venient occasion.—( Hear, hear.) He thought the occasion inconvenient, because un doubtedly it interfered with the pro gress of a Bill, to which he, for one, was most anxious to give the best support he was able. Ile thought it more inconve nient, because, while the question which his Hon. Friend wished to raise by his motion was the great and important ques tion whether the whole of the arrangements of the Irish Church ought to be remodelled or not, he was of opinion that that question was badly raised upon the appropriation of so comparatively small a sum as 26,000/. That sum was far too small a practical proposition to bring forward as a test of so great a principle, but, at the same time, as it seemed to b e the wish of Gentlemen on both sides of the tend s e e s t t a that this que s ti on s h ould be considered as clearly in decide the point of whether they were to maintain, unaltered, as at present appropriated, the property of the Esta blished Church of Ir el and w or whether some arrangement was to be considered —as i t that the division upon it(.lvrasi°tlO was be the feeling on both sides of the to be so considered, and House, that this great q uest i on unequal taken as the test of their vfailetwasautphoenprite,sehaetwareaslailalinvgaryso t o consider it. Though he wt tlie i task of address ing i s in su to bj p e a c b t, li y a e l t i , g e as , h i te t e one e upon which, e House hise u n p t r o a n n t c h e ever th si e nc in terest, upon which he entertained opinions so strong, e deep w h ic h an every year's experience only served to strengthen more; d could not allow this debate to come to a close withouete more, he that opinion however inadequate he might be to do sox. ex press ing garded the question of the Irish Church in the same lightere his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh(Mur. Macaulay.) In his unanswerable speech upon the subject last night, be entirely, concurred. He alwaye regarded the maintenance of the Irish Church Upon - Its' present 'footing as contrary to every principle of justice and of policy.—( Hear, hear.) He believed in his conscience that the maintenance of that Church had been the great obstacle to the spread of the Protestant religion in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He was so persuaded of the troth of the great principles of reli gion, that he firmly believed if they were . given fair play—if they were not weighed down by the Rustle° of that system with whieh they were united, they must in the course of three centuries have taken root and flourished on the soil of Ireland as they had done in other countries.—( Hear.) He believed that the Irish Church was the source of that misgovernment and oppression under which Ireland had, for three centuries suffered.—( Hear, hear.) That was the view which he took of the subject, and it was one which he never concealed. When he was in the Government, and was a party to the appropriation clause, he never disguised the fact, that the arguments on which he supported that proposition were argu ments, if pushed to their legitimate conclusion, would have car ried him farther than the clause then proposed.--( Hear. ) He never disguised that such was the effect of those princi ples, and if ho contended for a proposition that fell far short of them, he did so only because he believed that at that time the Roman Catholics of Ireland were prepared to accept far less than in justice they were entitled to demand.—(Hear, hear.) In the year 1838, when they consented to pass the Tithe Bill without the appropriation clause, he did not conceal the fact that he acquiesced in that de termination of the Government to which he then belonged, not because healtered his opinion of the justice of that clause, but because he felt that the time at which such a compromise might be accepted had gone by. The Right Hon. Baronet opposite might remember that that, and that only, was the ground on which he consented to be a party to the bringing forward of the Tithe Bill, without the appropriation clause. And he did not value that clause so much for its intrinsic value as for being a tender of part of the just claims of the Roman Catholics ; and, when originally proposed, the Catholics were willing to accept it as a concession, not so much to their interests as to their feelings and their sense of honour, which were wounded by the existing arrangements. But in 1838 it was obvious to him, from the protracted contests on the subject of the appropriation clause, that the time must come when compromise being no longer accept able, a larger and more difficult question must come under discussion. He did not raise the question then, because those most interested in it did not seem to think it an occasion on which it could be advantageously brought forward. But he foresaw that the question would be brought forward; and he never concealed, being then in office, his views on a matter in which he felt that justice required it should be determined. He referred to those things merely to show that when the Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Graham) spoke last night of Government on his side of the House being prepared to go farther now than formerly, he did not do them justice, at least he did not do it to him (Lord Howick ). He would bear him (Lord Howick) witness that his opinions on this subject had been frankly avowed ; and that he supported those opinions to the utmost of his power.—(Hear, hear.) After having be fore addressed the House on the subject now before it, and after the speech of his Right Hon. Friend, the Member for Edinburgh, he should not attempt now to point out all the defects of the existing arrangements of the Irish Church. He wished rather to go at once to the practical question as to how the anomaly and injustice of those arrangements were to be met. He had no hesitation in stating his opinion on that point. More than two years ago he stated that the time was gone by when a compromise would be of use. He firmly believed that if they were contented to accept; the appropriation clause of 1835, they might, for their time at least, maintain without serious inconvenience the Protestant Established Church of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) But they triumphed in their resist ance to that compromise, and the consequence was that they now brought about a state of things, in which he thought a compromise was no longer practicable. He believed that they must now do full justice to the people of Ireland.—(Cheers. ) It was no use any longer to palter with the question. For him self, he would never again be a party to an incomplete and in adequate measure of reform—he would never disturb the country by proposing a measure which did not go to the root of the evil.—(Hear, hear.) When he said " the root of the evil," what be meant was, that they must deal on equal terms with Catholics and Protestants.— ( Cheers.) There must be no distinction—no violent ast t op tion of correctness of doctrine and prior claims to the regard of the State on the part of the Protestants.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Catholic and Protestant interests must in his opinion be considered and dealt with alike.—( Cheers.) That was not the time for discussing the proper mode of doing so, but he would tell them. because he wished to have no concealment on the subject, what, in the present state of his ieformation, appeared to him to be the best mode in which the subject should be dealt with. In the first place, he would save all existing interests.—( Hear, hear.) He would not in any way interfere with those who now enjoyed incomes from the Irish Church revenues— ( Hear, heard—and, at present, he thought they were bound to draw on the Consolidated Fund of this country for the sup port of the Roman Catholic Church. Under any other circum stances this might be injustice, but he had the strongest opi nion that Ireland herself ought to provide for the religions in struction of the Irish people, as England provided for the in. struction of the English people, and Scotland provided for the instruction of the Scotch 'people.—( Hear, hear.) As a permanent arrangement, he held that it would be what justice required, and they had no right to call on the English people, or on the Scottish people, to contribute to the religious instruction of the people of Ireland.—( Hear, hear. ) But as a temporary arrangement the case in his opinion was different—he thought it was the fault of the English themselves that Ireland was not in a situation at once to provide for the religious instruction of the Homan Catholics from the Church property of Ireland. It was the prejudices prevailing in this country which prevented a measure from being adopted by which a considerable fund would be already at their disposal. —( Hear, hear.) If the prejudices of the English and Scotch p-ople had not interposed, the appropriation clause would have been carried in 1835 ; and not only that, but if these prejudices had not interfered—if they had been able to deal with the application of the pro perty of the Irish Church as reason and common sense dic tated—his opinion was, that they would not be compelled to fritter away and waste that property as they had been.---( Hear, hear.) They scandalously wasted that property—first, by the arrangements of 1 , -33, with refererce to bishops' lands. If tl.e property of the Irish Church had not been devoted to unporular purposes—if it had not been applied to objects which the general sense of the people of Ireland was against, his opinion was that they could not have so wasted that pro petty—that if the property of the Irish Church was devoted to the itistru tion of the great body of the people, neither Parliament no: the people of Ireland themselves would have consented to the arrangements made with regard to the bishops' lands.—( Hear, hear.) In like manner it was an unjust application of the revenues of the Irish Church which compelled them in 1833 to convent to a sacrifice of 9.5 per cent. of that property. As, therefore, that mistake was forced on Parliament by the prejudices—he admitted tl e honest prejudices—of the people of England and Scotland. the cause of that mistake might fairly fall on those who committed it; and the peop'e of England and Scotland ought to pay for a time a' provision for the Catholic Church ; but ultimately, he said, that that provision ought to be supplied by Ireland her self. If he bad to deal with the subject, be would say, let the whole property of the Irish Church be vested in the hands of commissioners. Let them pay the incomes of existing incumbents, and as those interests fell in, the first charge on the funds would be to make due provision for the Catholic clergy—he said the first charge, because he knew that on his side of the House, as well as on the other, it had been the custom to say, that the surplus ought to go to the Roman Catholics. He repudiated that notion as altogether unjust, and said that the Catholics had, in every point of view, the first claim on the funds. They were tl.e majority—they were the poorest, and the property was originally set apart for the maintenance of their Church. Upon another ground they had also a just claim. He thought it was for the national interest that the Roman Catholic clergy should be provided for, precisely as he thought it for the interest of England that the clergy of England should have an independent provision, without trusting to the contributions of their flocks.—(Hear, hear.) He thought it of the most essential importance that the clergy of the great body of the Irish people should have in. comes independent of the caprice of those whom they taught. He was moat distinctly opposed to what was called the voluntary principle. He was utterly unable to understand the views of those who adopted that policy. Gentlemen upon both sides of the House agreed that the State ought to interfere in support of the education of the people, and that it ought not to be trusted merely to the voluntary efforts of individuals. Large grants were made for education in England, in Ireland, and in Scotland ; and he regretted that the unfortunate sectarian feelings which prevailed between Churchmen and Dissenters prevented them from carrying out as far as they might the be nefits of education, the means of which the State was willing to provide. If education, then, ought not to be trusted to the voluntary efforts of individuals, the case was much stronger against leaving the religious education of the people to the support of voluntary contributions of indi viduals. Why, those who wet e the least sensible of the wants of religion, were the very persons to whom the advantages of religion were of the most importance, and they were the per.. sons who would be the least inclined to contribute to its sup port.—(" Hear, hear," from the Chancellor of the Exche quer.) He was glad to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman cheer that. If the Hon. Gentleman concurred with him its that feding— if they felt the necessity of providing religious in struction for the people, let him (Lord Ho e ss a i or.r ck; iNol a ra s a shape in which in k s them in what shape it oug ht to b e prov id e d ? Was it th esh a e it in wouldwhichbe it a e e w p o t u a l b d i e ?b_ Hear,( e useless, it for practical purposes they meant to provide it? If so, they ought to supply that religious education in a form in which it would be most acceptable to the people of Ireland.—( Hear. ) If they thought that religious education was of such im portance, how could they justify themselves in not affording it in a manner in which it would be most acceptable? He was so persuaded of the necessity of such a proposition, that he was ready to find means for it from any source— he was ready to take the money, in the first in stance, from the Consolidathl Fund, or from any other fund, for he felt that with regard to the Catholic population of Ire land, it was absolutely necessary to provide for the religious instruction of that country. Why should they compel the peasantry of the most destitute and worst taught country in the world to find the funds for the payment of the religious in struction they received, when there was a magnificent national endowment which he said was theirs by right ? To do that was the most flagrant violation of justice which England had ever been guilty of.—( Hear, hear.) But if they provided in the first instance for the Catholics, he was perfectly willing also to provide f or the 'Protestants. He was quite willing to meet the assertion, that the Protestant Church was inadequate to its purposes, upon higher and nobler grounds than any that had been alleged. He thought that the property of Ireland should be taxed for the purposes of this Bill, in the amount in which it was relieved in 1835.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that there might be obtained a fund which would meet all the exigencies of the case which had been so strongly put forward, and he concurred with those who had given it its due prominence. But he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, was he really serious ?—(Cheers.) Did he really mean to say, that if the Bill were frankly and faithfully proposed to the House, as a measure to satisfy the Trish people, it would be refused?--(Cheers.) Sir R. PEEL—No.—(Cheers.) Lord HOWICK agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet. He was sure that nothing which might equalise the position of re ligions in Ireland would be rejected by the House.—(Cheers.) He thought that all religions in Ireland should be placed upOn an equality, and he was sure that the people of Ireland would never be contented with less.—(Cheers.) They had been told that a message of conciliation had been sent to Ireland. What was the tenor of that message ?—( Cheers.) In weighing the value of that offer, let us consider what it was worth.—( Hear, hear.) Let us only consider what are the real facts of the case. Let us consider that the poorest people in the world were obliged to support the richest priesthood, who preached doctrines—when they preached at all—quite opposite to the opinions, often hurtful to the feeiings, of those who supported them.—(Hear, hear.) The security and safety of the Established Church had always been made the pretext of oppression to Ireland.—(Cheers.) Was it any wonder that animosities should arise? Would we, as Englishmen, say that there should he sustained in this country by all the powers of the maintained naod _inot_n.t p aa e t ; e p ern l di. ett majorities by symaoemnfndovjoobtr oppositeeyi majorities ns e l o l a the fnbotr rti rights of the constitution, o they e ota intended h a Catholic ehurch, which the people abhorred, and which was a n s H Heoeas partor wouldo sf o o f kr w t t h abr e ed empire,uHnolue unless ial...tottocog?ni farther t a h e e k r ti t hi o s n q t u h e i s s t ipoanr.t of the could questionß i Right the erect oriii The Governmenre, clieripoirethgeaplrrsythoifosiria culties and embarrassments 0 .4W4 Hon. Bar o n et to consider what had been from the oppoliarsititoinsi principles to those whicelrtsh doubt, had felt themselves in great diffi culties whetnbeouHtomooaffes. despise himself if Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary had said that he would d • that some expression of his was hasty he did not acknowledge (Lord Howick) would ask, was it not airl*tur 4 l:advised. But he Quo to t : Dhffit repots.hee(iceprCea.prhrte:er rsree shnn. The TTIE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 25, 1845. tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman himself was it not most hurtful to that great empire, of which so large a portion was confided to his care? was it not most hurtful to the dignity of that House, that upon a great question, in which so many in terests were involved, a Minister of the Crown was placed in a situation to held such language and to make such amendments ? A few short months might bring the Right Hon. Baronet to the distressing alternative of asserting to the House that " I was wrong before, and I am not right now."—( Cheers.) The Right Honourable Baronet had needlessly and wantonly renewed difficulties which were passing away. If they have given to the shadows form and substance, it is not our faults. You (said the Noble Lord) fought with me inch by inch when lasked of you to give this much of concession to the Irish people. Do as you will, you cannot govern the people of Ireland as heretofore. For my part, I shall support the amendment.—(Cheers.) Mr. HAMILTON opposed the resolution. A reference had been made to the Blue-book, and he had also made it his business to refer to that Blue-book, and he found that the re presentations which had been made of the state of the Irish Church were entirely incorrect. He found, by that report, that there were eighty-two benefices in Ireland. lie was aware that a distinction was drawn between parishes and benefices—( Hear, hear)—but he found that a great difference existed between the representations of the Roman Catholic party and those who were opposed to them. The Hon. Gen tleman then went into a series of statements respecting the number and the value of the benefices in the hands of the Pro ' testant Irish clergy, in order to show that the means at present derived from the benefices and from the parishes possessed by the Protestant clergy were only moderate remunerations for the duties they had to perform. He believed that the propagation of Christian truth was not to be effected by merely human means, and he thought that the success of the Irish Established Church was not to be charged upon it as a deficiency. They had no means for rendering the Irish Church Establishment available for its purpose, and if they considered that this Es tablishment was to be answerable for its effects, he would ask what had been the effects of the Educational Commission ? It was well known that the Educational Commission had failed in effecting all that it desired, and he thought that the promotion of Christianity was not to be effected by any merely human means. They had heard a great deal of restitution during that debate.—(Hear, hear.) But what was the case ? At the time the Irish Church obtained those endowments, it was not in connexion with the Church of Rome. Until that con nexion had been formed, there had been no question as to the possession or the use of the revenues which were attached to the Church. In the time of Henry IL, this connexion had been formed, and had continued for three centuries, but at the Reformation this connexion had been broken, and it was not until all hope had been gone and the allegiance of the popu lation of Ireland was lost to Rome that the Pope had attempted, to establish any other Church. Much had been said of the injury offered to the Roman Catholics of Ireland, but he thought that something should be made of the insult offered to the feelings of the Protestant inhabitants of Ireland. The Protestants had always been the main dependence—he might call them the garrison of the Government in Ireland.— ( Ironical cheers.) In 1835, at the request of the Minister of the day, the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government, the Protestants of Ireland had readily and in a moment dis solved a confederacy which was dear to them from many recol lections, and in which their prejudices had been interwoven. He did not wish to speak harshly of the Members of her Ma jesty's Government, but he thought it was his duty to warn them of trifling with the feelings of their Irish fellow Protestants. They would, in such a case, find that Protestants would league themselves with repealers—(llear, hear)—or, what would be as had, they would see party conflicts—one class naturally exulting in the triumph of their own Church and their own party, and the other bitterly regretting all conces sions made to the rival party, and determined, as far as they cculd, to thwart any such intentions on the part of the Go vernment.—(Cheers.) These would be the fruits of this motion of the Hon. Member for Sheffield, if it were carried —a measure, the result of which would be a subversion of all good feeling, and the substitute of the opposite; exultation on the one hand on account of these concessions being opposed to the antagonist feelin g ; on the other side, of deep and fruitless regret and poignant disappointment.—( Cheers. ) Mr. B. OSBORNE expressed his sorrow that ho had not had an opportunity at an earlier period of addressing the House on that subject. He had, however, listened with great attention to the debate, and he could not avoid expressing a doubt that it would exhibit an unsatisfactory spectacle to the admirers of academic rule and of academic education, for they would find the Members who represented the Universities, with but one exception, to a man disinclined to grant this con cession to Ireland, and disposed to battle—nay, to die—in the breech ere the measure should be carried.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman who had last spoken. and who was the re presentative of a decreasing party in Ireland—he meant the Orange party—had threatened the Right lion. Baronet with the enmity of his party—if he persevered in his intentions he had threatened to amalgamate with the repeaters. Mr. HAMILTON explained. Mr. OSBORNE would accept the explanation as it was given, but when the Hon. Member lauded the patriotism and loyalty of the Protestants, and referred them to the times of Archbishop Hunter, he (Mr. Osborne) would carry him to a ' still earlier period. He would take him to that period in the history of Ireland when Protestants were the abettors of rebel lion, when Wolfe Tone and other Protestants were the leaders of rebellion, and, therefore, he said, away with the cry of Pro testant integrity and Protestant loyalty. The Roman Catholic subjects of Ireland, he would aver, were as loyal as the most Protestant Members in that House.—( Cheers. ) If the Honourable Member had but made himself acquainted with the principles inculcated at the College of Maynooth, he would not have joined in raising the senseless cry which had been heard against that Catholic seminary. He (Mr. Osborne) was much struck with the speech of the Right lion. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government on the preceding even ing. The Bight Hon. Baronet appeared, on thst occasion, to be more engaged in the task of defending his own consistency than the character of the Irish Church, and, with his usual adroitness, he, in the after-part of his speech, referred to O'Connell and to the Oregon territory—to everything, in fact, but the real question before the House, which he threw over board altogether.—( Hear, hear.) lie held in his hand a parer containing the recorded opinions of throe of the Right llonourable Baronet's friends—men of great talent and filling a high position—and the first he should refer to w, old be Lord Brougham.--( Laughter. ) fie was now sup posed to be of the same party with the Right Hon. Baronet.— ( Continued laughter.) That Noble Lord said, in speaking of the Establishment in Ireland, " God forbid that the Church should hare tire same power over its property that individuals ad over theirs," and he argued that the Church revenues might be l e gally applied to the purposes of education as the State might think fit. The Ron. Gentleman had alluded to the subject of compact, as known and acted on at the time of the Union. What was the Act of Union? It was this. The representatives of a small minority of the Irish people, in order that their Church should be perpetuated, and in conse quence of certain pecuniary reasons, sold the liberties of the Irish nation and the Irish Church. (Loud cheers.) He asked if the Gov ernme n t were to act upon precedent, why that which was thought go o d f or C aoa d a should not be good fur Ireland also ?—( Chee rs . ) Wh y s h ou ld not the same h principle be applied in both coun t r i es .—( H ear, hear.) e Right Hon. Baronet the S ecretary for the Home Department seemed, in his speech of last night, to have rather misrepresented the opinions entertained by Hon. Members on that side of the II )use • He seemed to think that they desired the entire subverSion of the Irish Church. He would answer for hiinself, and he knew that he could answer for many others, that they desired no such thing. But they could wish that that Church had tried to fulfil the expectations on which it had been originally founded. He could inform the House that in Ireland there were 218 parishes which contained not one Protestant.—( Hear.) 723 p ar ishes had not one Church, and consequently no service at alt . — (Heer, hear.) H e cou ld no t in Ii eland.—(Cheers.) s en t withthe usefulnes s o f t h e Established Church him by ref err i ng to what he called the The lion. M em b er had endeavoured to r 3 then help lamenting the i g n orance exhibited by lion. l e c a a :b r a e yn r s tdh._ r e e s ipcecocubti glorious period of the reformation. Why, the reformation bad never taken place in Ireland.—(Cheers.) There had been, indeed, a revolution at the time, but no change had taken place in the opinions of the people. The Gover nmen t an d th e monarch of that day w anted to seize the revenues of the Irish Church, and this reformation afforded a good colour for that purpose.—( Hear, hear.) !Jew was th a t R e f ormat i on carried out ? In James th e First ' s time the Bibles were ordered to be trans lated into Irish, and an anecdote was English nobles' an d I r i sh ministers • but in the time of succeeding monar chs , they had Irish nobles and Elizabeth preservedt h:y Karlof a person comelaining, th at i n t h e re i gn o f English ministers•—(Laughter). He was prepared to men tion, on the authority of the v ery work quoted by the Right lion. Baronet the Secretary for Ireland, that there was DO similarity between the Irish and the E ng li s h Ch urc h es. Th e English Church held its temporaliti es w i t h t h e sanction of the great body of the English people. That was not the case with the Irish Church. There existed also a vast difference between the doctrines of the churches. The work observed that the religion of the Irish Church was a species of Puritanism rather than Protestantism. The Church preached a sour morality quite opposed to the liberal tenets of English Divines. What was the language of some of the ministers of the Protestant Church in Ireland ? The Right Rev. Prelate said that the penal laws were for the benefit of the Papists.—(Hear, hear.) What was their conduct to war d s the Right Hon. Baronet when he brought in his educational measures? Their language was only worthy of Exeter Hall, and their exclusive University of Dublin. He would ask the House if it had ever produced one great man, or one eminent writer ?—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Perhaps some name might be given them by the Noble Lord the Member for Bandon—souse little minister eminent in his little sphere, but one name worthy of note had never yet emanated from the Dublin University. He held in his hand a Government pamphlet, issued from the Government office in Dublin, and entitled " Probate of Wills, and he would take the liberty of reading the whole of it to the House, as it was not very long, to show the amount of Church property left by some of the Church dignitaries within the limited period of forty or fifty years. He found, a mong other facts stated in it, that the Lord Bishop of Cork left at his decease property to the amount of 5,000 ▪ 60,0 000 00 The Bishop of Limerick... .................. 100,050 The Bishop of Killaloe ................. . 50, The Bishop of Dro;ore ..................... The Archbishop of Dublin ▪ 150,( 00 ............... The MAHE of Baehr ............ 250,000 The Bishop of Tuam _ne Bishop of .aphoe ........... The Archbishop of Armagh .... ......... ••• 300, 000 The Bishop of Clogher ........................ 350"° The Bishop of Cashel .......................... 450,000 In all an amount of .. . ............. And all this amount, be its remembered, collected in the space of forty or fifty yeaars.—(Cries of .cHear, hear.") They had h ear d var i ous a ll us i ons to their not wishing to take the property from the Protestant Church. He did not believe that they w i s h e d to ta k e i t , no r was it his wish that it should be stone, but h e w i s h e d that ' that Church should be placed on a better footing. Dr. Doyle, in an examination: before the House of Lords, stated that he had a greater respect for the Established Church than any other Church which differed from the See of Rome, but that he thought that the property was i as prejudici a l t o t h e E s t a blished Church as it was to the Irish people. He remembered the days when a Viceroy was put in Coventry because he agreed in some matters with Mr. O'Connell; and now they were sending messages of peace to Ireland, and dragging at the c hariot-wheels of a convicted conspi ra t or .—(Ch ee rs.) He thought that there were very few Honourable Gentlemen at that or the other side of the House who would be inclined to agree with measures extracted under such conditions. (Hear, hear.) On a late occasion, when he (Mr. Osborne) had the honour of addressing the House, it was his intention to have voted against the Hon. G entleman s proposi tion, riot because h e objected to the grant, but he objected that it should be taken out of the consolidated fund, inasmuch as the people of thi s coun t ry o bjected to their money being ap plied to the objects of the Roman Catholic Church. He was very much shaken in that intention when he heard the speech of the Hon. Member for Kent, who dealt out damnation to all his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen.—(Laughter.) That was what first altered his opinion.] It was succeeded by the Hon. Member for Elgin, who claimed the hardihood of a sort of Birmingham Pope.—(Laughter)—instead of a Member of the Sedate, and, proiiounced the religion of three-fourths of the population of Europe' to be an awful delusion. He could not countenance such a gross inult to the Roman Catholic re ligion. He would tell the Han. Gentleman that it was better to be insane in his charity than ‘-ational in his malice. He would refer him to: what was saiti' by Burke, that he that dis sented altogether from the Christian religion was most Pro etant. Ile would put it to an,v dispassionate Alember of the House, whether his words were not more words of charity than those which fell from the Hon. ;Gentleman's lips.? He would ask the Hon. Gentleman, supposing that by means of that collision which existed between the Members of the House, he would say between the extreme voluntaries on his side, and the extreme involuntaries on the other side—(Laughter)—this Bill had been defeated, he should like to know what kind of a Government they had reason to expect from the Government that would spring from such a connexion—semi-bovemque "whom semi-virumque bovem.—(Laughter.) The Secretary for tbss Home Department, in: the speech which he made on a late occasion, (lid more good in softening and conciliating the people of Ireland, than any speech which had been delivered lately.—(Cheers.) The feelings of this country had been too subservient to Whig and Tory.—( Cheers.) He would beg to state to the House that there would never be an ultimate settlement of the Irish ques tion until the Irish Church was, not subverted, but put on a different footing.—(Cheers. ) Lord BERNARD rose amid great confusion, expressive of a great disinclination on the part of the House to hear. He was understood to say that he would not trouble the House at so late an hour of the evening but for the remarks made by the Hon. Member who had just sat down. He referred to a state ment which he (Lord Bernard) made two years ago. He wished to be allowed to refer to a speech of the Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland; in which he asked what would he the fate of the Irish Church, if it were to be determined by a Parliament existing in Dublin.—( Here the noise became so great that the Noble Lord, not being able to obtain a hearing, sat down.) Mr. ELLICE said that he rose to set himself right with the House, with respect to a statement of his Right Hon. Friend (the Secretary for the Home Department), in the course of his speech last night. But before he did so, he wished to say in a few words that he would give his cordial support to the pre sent motion. He should be at some loss to do so, if he thought that it would in any way interfere with the success of the mea sure which the Right Hon. Gentleman had introduced to the House ; but inasmuch as he should come to that vote without injuring the progress of that motion, and as he thought it essential upon this—probably the first step in a new course of ecclesiastical policy with the people of Ireland—to make a protest against making any tax on the people of England to support any ecclesiastical establishment in Ire land, he thought it right, for that reason, to vote for the motion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ward). He need not fatigue the House by going over the grounds upon which he supported this motion. These arguments had been so admirably concen trated in the speech of the Right Hon. Member for Edinburgh, and that speech followed by the declamation of his Noble Friend the Member for the City of London, as well as by the appeal of the - Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland, that the whole subject had been completely exhansted. Respecting the Irish Church, against which so po;erful a statement had been made, no answer had ever been attempted in any quarter of the House. The Government had stated it was impossible to cope with the opposition of the subject, but they gave no good reason to the House or the country that they had the least security in being able to stand where they were.—(Cheers.) The first step in progressing had been taken, and they must go onwards let who might occupy the reins of Government.— (Hear, hear.) He had always during the time he had a seat in that House, taken a very active part, and a very anxious interest in the eubject. He was sure that twenty years ago, since he had seconded a proposal of the Hon. Member for Middlesex for going into Committee on the Irish Church ; and he had at that time made the same state ments which the Honourable Member for Sheffield had brought forward. Upon every subsequent debate on this subject he had pursued the same course, and when ho became a member of the Government, when his Right Hon. Friend (Sir J. Graham) left the Cabinet, he had avowed the same opinions, as distinct as language could avow them. He could not understand in what part of his speech to the House when the Government of Lord Grey came into power, he had given utterance to principles different to those on whi c h th e presen t motion was founded. It might have been that he then stated that there was no intention on the part of the Government to take from the Irish Church the means of forming a Roman Catholic Establishment in Ireland. They had not arrived at sufficient information to judge to what purpose or to what extent they would make an appropriation for the Protestant revenue of the Church. But when his Right Hon. Friend left office, a Commission had been issued to overturn the municipal proportions of the different sects in Ireland, so as to enable the Government to advise the Crown with respect to practical measures on this 'subject. He forgot the precise statement then made by his Noble Friend at the head of the Government (Lord Grey), but he believed that although that Noble Lord had refused to admit the intentions of the Government to apply any surplus belonging to the Protestant Church to any particular object, he maintained the power of the Government to apply the sum to any such purpose which the Govern ment should deem expedient.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to his own language, he recollected well the debate arising on the question respecting the settlement of the tithes in Ireland, brought forward by the present Lord Hatherton, the then Secretary far Ireland. In the course which he took on that occasion he lamented the loss which the Government had sustained by the retirement of his Right Honourable Friend (sir James Graham) and his Noble Friend the present Secretary for the Colonies. He thought then, as now, that their retirement, under the circumstances of the case, and on the principles on which they placed it, were detrimental to the course of good government and the progress of liberal opinions with regard to Ireland. The Government then had a large party in the House. The Irish people were then disposed to accept conciliatory measures, and if the Government had gone on in unison as they were in the course of policy in which they had embarked, a state of affairs would now exist in Ireland very different from that which they had the misfortune to witness. In stating his regret at the retirement of his Right Hon. Ftiend and of Lord Stanley for office, he used these terms 1—" For what had the sacrifices—(he alluded to the loss of his two Right Hon. Friend.)—been made, but that the Government might be enabled to act on that principle which they avowed with respect to the measure More the House" (it was the Irish tithe question); and upon some ironical cheers coming from the Opposition side of the House, "he scarcely knew how to interpret that cheer; but if it meant that the Government were not united, and determined to act consistenily with their declarations ; if there was the least diffleulty in the principle o! the application of the surplus revenue of the church of Ireland to the purposes which had been stated by the Hon. Member for St. Albans, he should have been the last man to join the Cabinet." That was snffie.ent to show that he had never swerved. To the measure founded on a system of liberality to the people of Ireland he would give his support, and hoped that system would be carried steadily forward. To the first step in that progress, he repeated, he gave his willing and cordial support, protest ing with his Hon. Friend against the principle of taking money for such purposes from other sources than the surplus revenue of the Irish church, and against the principle of abstracting it from the taxe, paid by the people of Great Britain.—( Cheers. ) Mr. E. B. ROCHE said the measure proposed by the Right Hon. Baropet regarding Mayoooth was a good measure as far as it went; introduced, lie believed, in a good, and honourable, arid kindly spirit—(Cheers)—and for that reason he regretted that the question of the Protestant Church in Ireland should have been brought forward on that occasion. —(Cries of " Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) He regretted it the more, because urged by old and long-entertained prin ciples, he must vote for the motion of the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Sheffield. He thought the question of the Irish Church was not so important a question now es it was a few years ago. It was not regarded by the Irish people with so much anxiety, because, in the first place, the question was overlaid in the Irish Mind by the more absorbing, and what he believed to be the more important questioh ; and, in the second place, the people of Ireland had seen this question of Church reform what they considered trifled with by parties on that, the Opposition side of the Ilouse, .be fore—( Hear, hear)—and, therefore, they (lid not believe that they were sincere in proposing Church reform. He only stated the general feeling among the Irish people. He would be wrong in saying the Hon. Member fur Sheffield was not sin cere. There was no doubt about that. But, at the same time, the Irish people take up this question with great spirit, and lay it down very quietly—( Hear, from the Ministerial benches) —and, therefore, hi their minds, it was not so important a question as it had been. He regretted that the question had been introduced oh the present occasion, because he thought it better that the question should be disposed of by itself. He did not know whether the Right Honourable Gentleman the Member for the University of . Dublin, and the Noble Lord (Lord Bernard), were quite satisfied with the aspect which this question of their Church had taken in that House. He (Mr. Roche) regarded it as an abuse. He deplored the. ex istence of that abuse in his country. It was the Church that had been a bone of contention between them ; but he regarded it with most regret as it was the thing of all others which pre vented the party which that Noble Lord represented, and which he (Mr. Roche) represented, from uniting for the com mon good of their common country.—(Cheers.) He pm it to the Noble Lord, and the Right Hon. Gentleman, if they thought that by remaining in that House, and by keeping the question in that House, they would keep the Church safe as it existed at present. He asked them to look at the state of parties in England, and consider whether they were likely to get for that Church very flatter ing terms if Hon. Gentlemen on this side of the House should come into power. Let them well consider this—whether Irish men in Ireland could not settle that important question more equitably for both parties —more permanently, and more honourably than by coming over to this country, which the Hon. Member for the University of Dublin admitted in his speech to be a " foreign country." The Hon. Member for the University, in his argument in support of the Church in Ireland, said-"'Take from us the Church and ycu have the support of the party whie.. I repre sent ;" which party, said another Hon. Gentleman, was a fo reign garrison, existing in a foreign and hostile country. He confessed he listened with some humiliation when he heard his fellow-countryman obliged to make such a confession, Mr. HAMILTON—I said a hostile, not a foreign country. Mr. ROCHE—The Hon. Gentleman said he did not say foreign; and, therefore, he retracted that expression, but still it was a British garrison existing in a hostile country. Now, he said this hostility was all on one side, for the people of Ire land did not regard the English party there with hostile feel ings. They only regarded their prejudices with hostility, and perhaps with contempt ; but they did not regard their fellow countrymen in any hostile spirit, and many of them, forming a large party in Ireland, hoped that a bl esse d day would come, when they would all be united for the common good of their common country. But be would turn from that question. The Right Hon. Baronet, as he had previously admitted, had brought the question forward in a good and fair spirit ; but let him remind the Right Hon. Baronet, that all the support he had received from the Opposition side of the House, did not originate from a sacrifice of party to principle. Honest men supported that motion because it was just ; men who were not honest supported it because it was expedient. He heard in this country, among the lower grade of the Whig party, murmurs and reports of a coalition. He found them in dulging in the pleasing dreams of one day seeing the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London, and the Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury hob-nobhing at a Cabinet dinner. What a scene it would be for that talented gentleman, who styled himself the historical painter of the House of Commons. He would have the old story of Antony and Octsvius dividing the empire amongst their fellows. But did they suppose Ireland would acquiese to this course? Did they think Ireland would be contented with this paltry bribe to sacrifice the cause in which she had em barked? Now he told the Right Honourable Baronet in a candid spirit, that such would not be the case. They would not be able to quiet Ireland by this single mea sure —no, they must give ample and full justice. Ireland was embarked in a cause which she thought was just and good, and they believed they were entitled to a domestic Legislature. He knew perfectly well that he was vainly attempting to advo cate a cause while bad no friends in that House ; he trusted that Hon. Members would permit him to tell them, that their attempting to treat with an individual would not satisfy Ire land. They must recollect that lately a body of men had sprung up in Ireland, who commanded the confi dence of the people of Ireland, and. who would not be satisfied with this measure. How were thesemen called into existence? Why their existence was de rived from a certain declaration which a Lord-Lieutenant made with regard to repeal in Ireland. That person proscribed any one entertaining repeal opinions, and declared that they were to be excluded from office. To say the least of it, he thought this was an unworthy declaration. It was as much es to say, " I believe you are to be bought, and if you are to 'be bought, here is my pricer" But these men had the sym pathies of the people with thorn, and he said again they must have something more than this measure before they would be satisfied. lie was not going at that late hour to enter at any length into this question, but if Government had any wish that it should be settled peacefully and amicably, they must enter upon the consideration of it at once, hut he could assure them that nothing short of what he had stated would satisfy Ireland. Lord PALMERSTON did not intend to go into the ex traneous topics which had been introduced in the course of the debate—" sufficient for the debate was the question thereof." If his Hon. Friend had brought forward his motion under the circumstances, and in the same circumstances in which he first gave notice, he should have felt it to be his duty to vote against it, unwilling as he had been to take any step . which could by any remote possibility have impeded the Government Bill, which, to a certain extent, had been carried ; but the course which the Right Hors. Gentleman had since taken, had enabled him (Lord Palmer ston) to give the motion his support. The question the Hon. Member had now brought forward was this, Whether there was not another fund from which the grant proposed by this Bill could not be supplied? The Hon. Member had originally asked why should not the great be takea from the Consolidated Fund ; but he had altered his motion, and he now asked, why not procure it from the funds crea ted by the reduction of the Irish Church establishment ? He ( Lord Palmerston) would have voted for the motion for supplying the grant from the Consolidated Fund, if he had persevered in it ; but he ( Lord Palmerston) would prefer that this money should be taken from the other source, and there fore he would give his vote in favour of that proposition. The first question the House had to consider was, could there be a surplus of Church funds sufficient to meet this demand, after providing what was necessary for the support of the Protestant Church established in Ireland ?—( Hear, hear.) He did think that no person, who had heard the statements made upon that subject, but would feel satisfied that ample funds would still remain for the proposed measure, after providing in the most ample manner for the Protestant Church.—( Hear.) Then, he would ask, had this House authorised the Govern ment to make this grant? lie should say that no Member, who had voted for the Church Temporalities Act, could dis pute that the House had that power. The resources of the Church, it had been admitted, were at the disposal of the State, who held them in trust for certain uses ; if that were- so, then, he would contend for it, that those who had brought in the Church Temporalities Bill should make such use of this surplus fund as it was quite apparent it was intended for. On those grounds, then, he would vote for the endowment of the College of aynooth out of this fund.— ( Hear, hear.) He knew he would be met by the statement that this would be going a step beyond the appropriation clause, and that granting a sum for education in Maynooth from this source would be granting money for the exclusive education of Roman Catholics. But he contended that the Church Temporalities Bill did not repudiate such an applica tion of the funds, for they were intended for the purposes of general education of the Irish people, the great majority of whom were Roman Catholics. If, then, it should be found that the Established Church did not require the api lication of the whole of those resources, then he would feel no diffieulty what ever in applying them to aid the religious instruction of the people of Ireland. —( Cheers.) In Ireland there were eight millions of people, of whom seven millions were Roman Ca tholics. In Ireland there was a large Church establishment, which educated about one-half of the Protestants of that coun try, and the State paid, by a grant, for the religious instruction of the other half; and was it then possible that this House could contemplate six and a half millions of the poorest portion of the people of that country re •eiving religious instruction from their clergymen, who were dependent for their support upon what they received by going from door to door, and from farm to farm, to collect the means of ex'stence?—( Hear, hear.) Whatever might be the result of this discussion, depend upon it, this country would be compelled, sopner or later, to adopt some such measure. —(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") For a long while party prejudices would not permit this ques tion to be brought forward ; in the meantime it had been freely discussed outside, and at length the force of argument had become so strong as to produce a reaction, and then the Government came forward with their measure ; but they came when the time had gone by—they came forward when their spontaneous offering appeared not what it wa-e but as a sur render to fear, which he .vas sorry to see, and which he felt assured the Right Hen. Baronet opposite (Sir R. Peel) did not intend.—( Hear, hear.) However, he did hope that this impression would not have the effect of deterring the Govern. ment from the path they had resolved on to pursue, in regard to the prosecution of other means of conciliation which he be lieved they had in contemplation.—( Hear, hear.) There were many other questions of a conciliatory character to Ireland which he hoped to see brought forward, and the carrying out of which would soon prevent the use of such expressions as " a hostile nation" applied to England.--(Cheers.) But if the Government imagined that this alone would be sufficient to ac complish perfect tranquillity in Ireland, they would find their mistake, for there this would be looked upon as a measure yielded to fear, and not elicited by conviction.—( Cheers.) Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT—Sir, I mean to say a few words before the debate closes, and they shall be very short. I shall not enter into the question of the Protestant Church Establishment, and i will make no further allusion even to the motion the Hon. Member for Sheffield has brought forward than to say that I deeply regret that this question should have been brought forward now—first, because I think that it will be little understood is Ireland, and next, that it is introducing for discussion bet ween the leading parties of this House abstract principles which have no reference to the measure before the House, an: also because the only influence of this motion, if successful, must be, of course, to destroy the measure before the House. I should have thought this system of introducing the assertion of principles into the discussion .of particular mea sures had already led to so much inconvenience in the hands of the Honourable ' Gentleman himself, that he would have been the last person to have proposed such a course. Look to that measure which was admitted on both sides of the House to have been of paramount necessity for the tranquillisation of Ireland—the meaure, fur the settlement of the tithe question. Look to the annual attempts that were made to introduce that suicidal clause, which long delayed the settlement of that question. But, Sir, I have risen on this occasion more especially to call the attention of the House to the statement which was made last evening and repeated again to-night, in spite of tho emphatic contradiction given to it by my Right Hon. Friend, namely, that this measure had been brought forward, not from any sense of justice, not from any preconceived opinion as to its fitness for the state of Ireland, or the effect it might have on the tranquillisation of that country, but that it had been extracted by fear and alarm, created by the Oregon question. —(Cheers. ) Sir, I think it was shown by dates last night that this measure was contemplated—nay, more, that it was already put into shape long before the question arose re specting the Oregon territory.— (Cheers.) It was announced long before any suspicion was excited in •this country with regard to the territorial boundary of North America, or that any rupture was feared. It was stated further that the Bill had been actually drawn, nd Roman Catholic prelates con sulted so far back as November last. Nay, I may say more. During the last session, when the discussion took place on the vote for education, and likewise for the grant to Maynooth, on the introduction of the subject the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Waterford (Mr. Wyse) called the attention of the Government to academical education in Ireland, and my Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Governmennt, in answer to that speech, said the subject had already been under the consideration of the Goverment ; that only the lateness of the session, and his unwillingness to bring on so important a measure for the prosperity of Ireland, had prevented them bringing forward the measure. I can go back to a still higher date because a communication was made to me by the Government on the subject of this measure. I say, therefore, that nothing can be more contrary to the fact than that any unworthy motive had actuated the Government motive, I think, disgraceful to the character of her Ma jesty's Government, and me which I am anxious to repel, not only because I think it would produce a most unfavourable impression as to the character and conduct of the Government, but would greatly diminish the good effects to be anticipated from this measure. I very much regret that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edin burgh, forgetful of all these facts, has studiously tried to fix this imputation on the Government. I regret this much, be cause it appeared to me that the Right lion. Gentleman was thinking less of the benefits this measure might produce in Ireland, than of the degree of party strife it might cause.— ( Cheers, and counter-cheers.) I perfectly understand those cheers, but, I must say, that. I drag a great distinction between the course the Whig party has pursued on this occasion, and that which they formerly pursued. I am as willing as any man to acknowledge any disinterested support of the Govern ment. I must say, however, that the Right Hon. G9tlemen the Member for Edinburgh has taken a course diametrically opposite to that which was taken by the Noble Lord, and has endeavoured studiously to Sx a charge of ineonsietency on the Government, and in such a manner as might be calculated to injure the success of this measure in Ireland. Let it go forth to Ireland that this mea sure been extorted by fear, and all its advantages wil. be lost. If throush that cause the measure should be ineffective for tranquillising Ireland, the responsibility will be with the. Right Hon. Gentleman. lf, on the contrary, the anticipa tion of her Majesty's Government shall be realised—if the measure does produce tranquillity—if it should have the effect of attaching the feelings of the Roman Catholic priest hood—if it does carry out the views of her Majesty's Go vernment, then the Right Hon. Gentleman will have thi s consolasion, that it was not for want of his opposition that the measure had not failed in tranquillising Ireland.—( Hear.) I allude to this because I think we ought not to admit the ciaims of the frequenters of Conciliation Hall in the success of this measure. I have already stated that this measure was first announced in answer to a speech of the Right Hon. Gen tleman the Member for Waterford, and that it has arisen from no sudden external cause whatever. This measure is to be attributed to those gentlemen in Ireland, and those Roman Catholic prelates, who not fearing the consequences, and ex posing themselves to great obloquy, and great misrepresents- Con, and great abuse, nobly stayed aloot from agitation and refused to have any partnership in measures which they dissapproved of. The Government were determined to bring forward this measure, not as a bribe, not as a concession, but as a measure which they believed to be right--and they bring it forward because they believe it to be right, and because they believe and know that there are Roman Catholic Gentle men, and Roman Catholic prelates, who are most anxious to give their influence in promoting the prosperity and good order of Ireland.—( Cheers.) I undertook to say as few words as possible. I was anxious to vindicate the Government from this charge which has been made against them.-eto vindicate them from the charge of inconsistency in bringing forward this measure, a measure which they supported when in Opposition, and which they now earry out when in office ; and I was anxious, likewise, to vindicate them from the impu tation of this measure having been extorted from them by menace and fear and by the dread of a hostile fo re i gn country. It was a sense of justice which prompted them to put it forward, and I beg the House to recollect, that when agitation was ripe in Ireland,that was not the moment the Government chose for bring ing this measure forward. It was after the law bad vindicated itself, and a comparative state of tranquillity had been established, that they did feel it their duty, in conformity with their declara tion, that they would govern Ireland with impartiality, justice, and conciliation, to bring forward this measure in redemption of that pledge, and I trust that it will be received in Ireland in the same spirit in which it has been conceived, and whatever three's the Government may receive from Exeter-Hall, or from the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, neither one nor the other will deter the Government from pur suing that course which they conscientiously feel to be neces sary for the tranquillity of Ireland.—(Cheers. ) Sir H. W. BARRON rose amidst loud cries of " Oh, oh !" "divide, divide." He said he would not detain the House for many moments at that late hour of the night—but being the only Catholic Member from Ireland who had risen during the pre sent debate, he was anxious to explain the reasons upon which he would give his vote ; and he trusted the House would ex tend its indulgence to him while doing so.—(Hear, hears ) He had always been an open, firm, decided, and manly oppo. nent of the present Government; but when he saw them changing the principles upon which they acted when in Opposition, lie tendered them his own thanks, and the thanks of his constituents. Seeing the spirit in which the Government were disposed to act towards Ireland, he could not consistently vote for the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield. —( Hear.) He thought it would he gross ingratitude towards the Government, if ho were to vote for the motion. That motion was most inoppor tune and ill-timed, and taken in connexion with the measure of the Government, he could not conscientiously support it. He would not answer the taunts and abuse which had been cast upon the Roth:in Catholics by petitions and speeches in that House. They exhibited little of charity or religion. s - He was glad that in the meetings held in Ireland, no such calumnious or abusive language was heard. If the Right Hon. Baronet followed up the measure for the endowment of Maynooth by other measures, he would find that no part of the British do minions might be more easily governed than Ireland.—(Hear.) Mr. HINDLEY rose amidst loud cries of " Divide," and " Oh, oh." He could assure the House he did not rise to make a sreeeh.—( Hear, hear.) He rose for the purpose ° f asking whether a division would take place on the first proposi tion the Speaker would put from the chair, and whether, if he voted against the proposition, looking at it in its simple terms, and'supposing that he was determinedly hostile to the Maynootk Bill, whether he was bound to give a negative to the proposi• tion that the Speaker do leave the chair ? The House then divided, when there appeared— For the motion.... Against it Majority against the motion --174 On our being readmitted to the gallery, we found Sir R. H. INGLIS on his legs addressing the House; bit answer to a question from whom, Sir R. PEEL said that it was his wish that they should g e into Committee, and that the Chairman should report progress. Of course they would go into Committee again to-morrow (th is _, day), after he had made his statement with re s p ec t to 1 1 3 °Lr.", banking. He was most an x i o u s to give a g ene ral outline o f that measure, in fulfilment of a pledge given to the Scottish Members who were interested in the question. If the disaus . sion on that statement were not prolonged the subject of t 134/ Maynooth grant might be taken af. erwards. Sir R. H. INGLiS thought Monday the better day. Sir R. PEEL was of opi n i o n that as th e y h a d a lready ein e days' debate upon the sut.ject, it would be better that that should get through the subject as soon as possible. -Under all the circumstances he should feel it his duty to bring the matter forward to-morrow. Colonel SlBTHORP—Although he had voted in the sat e lobby with the Right Hon. Baron( t, did not do so out of re' spect to the Right Hon. Baronet o r to hi s measur es. He di d not like the principle of expediency on which the Right Hen' Baronet seemed to found his meaauees. Mr. HUME would wish to say a few words on the subject of Scotch banking, when brought en to-morrow, but did 1144 object to the Mayuooth question being proceeded with AO' wards. Sir ROBERT PEEL said he would not bring forward the Maynooth question after nine o'clocic.—( Hear, hear.) 1 Mr. LAW thought they should not p rocee d with it mit t Monday, and begged of the Government to postpone it to that day. Sir R. PEEL declined acceding to the proposal; he h ad been asked not to bring it on after nine o'clock, and he emu' seated, but he would not consent to a greater postPelle ment.—(Cheers.) Lord NORTHLAND protested against any factious oppo' sition being given to the Government—be would not lend him' self to it. _ . Mr. C. WOOD thought the measure might be brought e n to-morrow after the Scotch banking question, which would be only, as on former occasions, a mere outline by a Member of th e Government. Sir R. INGLIS bad understood that the Government but consented to postpone the further progress of the Bill to Moir day, after the House going into Committee pro forma to night.—( No, no.) A strong feeling prevailed out of doors t the question, and he hoped the Government would consent fr" postponing it to that day. Mr. PLUMPTRE denied that any factious o pp os ition ba t j. been raised. In consequence of the rapid movements win': had already been made, it would be more preferable to poste ; the sitting of the Committee on the Bill to next Monday. at the same time repudiated anything like factious oPPnei t ''''' as far as he was concerned. Lord J. RUSSELL did not think that the r e was atlyt i bl like factious oppositioa displayed ; the Bill had been nerve" °-- t as fairly as possible.—(Hear, hear.) As he dad not eW c that a long discussion would arise on it ; he would ( 161° that they should go into Committee to-morrow. Lord NORTHLAND having stated that he only meant that he would be no party to factious opposition, The House went into Committee, pro forma, an d the Speaker got leave to sit to-morrow in Committee. THE INFEFTMENT (SCOTLAND) BILL. This Bill was read a third time and passed. f the The other orders of the day having be e n disposed House adjourned at One o'Clock. MR. LANGFORD'S ADDRESS TO THE SUB-AGENTS OF KENT. GENTLEMEN—AS Messrs. Morison, of the Ju" --i/ d College of Health, New-road, London, have been Plear''' r e d to appoint me their general agent for Notih Kent,ont, residing ten years in Strood as agent for the sale o f t " 0 valuable medicine, you will expect me to say something ne, the subject. I have had to contend with a host nf l i3 ia inks, such Ls chemists, doctors, &c., all interested o f keeping the truth from the people, and they ha ve t course ; poured forth a torrent of abuse against the the , .of Mr. Morison, viz. :=—that an impurity in the ,o 19 is the cause of all diseases ; that such impurity on no be eradicated by proper vegetable purgation ; th„ a ", a d human being or animal body has too much bloc'" ; that it is much more agreeable to nature to cleans e re , purify in the proper way, than to take away the P. r , cious stream of life by the Lancet—thus at once beeotinti; our own doctors. Such x theory no doubt cuts uP t or s _trade of the doctor ! I Of l a t e y ears a h o st of imta;, have sprung up, who have pirat e d M r . Morison 's " lie d) and under his theory have p us h e d f ort h their (so c 3 30 . valuable medicines, but the greatest humbug and sition of all is " Parr's Life Pill s ," s i nce it is a 10" "i v i e d Parr never made a pill in his life, and it can be P r° de a that he could neither read nor write, and never I'l the will, having nothing to leave; so that the story ab°e frosi Clergyman finding his will is all a lie and forger}, rd of beginning to end, and would never have been :11 5 ott -1- but for Munson.i Examine the sellers of Parr's 1,, As this point, and you will at once find out the W e e t 'give regards the efficacy of the Hygeian medicines , who have reference to persons in my own neighbourhood, e been taken them with the best results. So various hay nature, the cases, and some of them of that des n je teci , that from my experience I would say to the O il :, vo a " never despair, though given up by doctors, Un t "' $ have given Morison's Pills a fair trial." I intend 1 °.., 0 short time to publish a list of cases of cure in any n''; o neighbourhood, and if you, as agents, can forward in c t ;i s this work of humanity (for we are all interested in t h - e - y great question), by sending me any cases of cures !- shall be inserted with mine. —Yours, most respectf° l ' ) ' - JOHN LANG FORD, t . General Hygeian Agent, Strood, N en desperate ofd Oar 'JONATHAN SHARP.—In the present statercl relations with America, any work which shouldTe; 0, us an insight into the true character of the ... ; from unquestionable sources, must be very de si ' - hion and this, we have heard, has been done after 5 ' e ntry , _that cannot fail of producing great effect in this d o in a new publication bearing the title of Jonathan Sharp ; or, the Adventures of a Kentuckian. " c ar by Himself." Report speaks of this narrative eshihr veying the most extraordinary picture ever broneva fore the English public of , the recklessness and l`lae dence of Brother Jonathan, especially as rob the the state of affairs in Texas, the proceedings ar; pt' Mexicans, with the Indians, and other interes tlna s tha ticulars illustrative of things as they are throught o eff* States. As these revelations proceed from an I' d sbei can, they are of course from good authority ; a n os iog are said to comprise a series of adventures so te.' that "Jonathan Sharp" has every probability of ter ing as popular a character as his distinguished en " man M. " Sam Slick." TRIERS' FILSTORY OF THE CONSUL A I'ofb eS EMPIRE OF FRANCE.—The Third Volume of i‘ir• Campbell's authorised English Translation of l e ach portant Sequel to M. Thiers' " History of t he o riel'', Revolution," has just appeared. The Times. i n I : io n ing- this work, observes that " The public e oir` r M. Thiers' Hi s tory of the Consulat e and the — r id °,; is an event of an interest not confined to the eta& literature. The charms of so facile a style, the ° a we" of so lucid a narrative, and the abundtatee of i t 4 ,3 -0 0 1" tic and hitherto unexplored materials, pine? 01 60 4 ' amongst the most important productions of our co or And if the policy, the glory, and the evil of ale , to al late arid Empire are here deliberately subjecto ow judgment of the world, perhaps the 'future 1 3c .% e- tb€ sB prosperity of Europe depend on the spirit on wil le d O past transactions are reprobated or applaud e- ', tated or condemned." The sale of this work, i s4e c i,e' derstand, has been truly extraordinary ie F. , " 13 , e tl well as in France. Wtiat has no doubt incree-fag success in this country is the circumstance of the i f ife lisp Authorised Translatio n b e i ng p u blished at ° l f il l shillings per volume, each containing m atter e t l„ h etir, 500 ordinary Bvo. pages ; thu s f orm i ng on e of th e ' to il £v est, as well as most important works ever pre3ol3 the Britulh public. a cue.: Spring with its effects on the compl ex ion a" a .; stitution gencrally.—The system of e ve ry P e ':at '- more or less affected at this period of the yea r ' to obviate these seeming natural accomp a nimen 4 tou 9 r climate like our own, has been a s u bject i () , pbY si ;', hitherto unfathomed by even our most emille,r, be cians and practitioners. An article has, hos . ," : 81 ;: an d : I -- recently imported into this countrae4rord 0 10-t rerf el-' fast gaining celebrity, which proves to be a ne` Th e ing obviate to cutaneous afflictions generallP h , substance is a white powder prepared from he r " V' Chl 0 of a most harmless nature, and is called by tbe " Meen Fun" or Celestial Skin Powder. hi9 i s ' e c ,, t ieji have not yet experienced the comfort of its aPP -I s beff, should do so without delay, In addition to the f, Pl l inestimable qualities, it will be found to render„t delicately white, smooth, and soft. Sold reta440 1 ,.,°",' perfumers and chemists, in boxes 3s. 6d. and 75. ° n j u w. and wholesale by the sole proprietors, Fabian e ro de l / 1 (late Watson, Fabian, and Co.), 24, Mark-lane, ouiu without whose signatures on the label none are g . ii ote THE ROTUNDA.—After undergoing In an A, l 4 o ' 4B : lions, this building, in the Blackfriars.road, celebrate(' --istelfho sion as the Surrey Library, Leverian Museum, and m or e a t 0 4 0 - the scene of the blasphemies of Carlile and Taylor, is sone' opened as a branch of the Government school of design 3. House. [lt BIRTHS. • ..ro3 On the 22d inst., Mrs. T. K. Kingdon, of Acacta 1 John's-rood, of a son. 10° stl;dete /1 On the 22d inst., the wife of Andrew Murray , t o ' wich-common, prematurely of a son, which died W I . A Ve l after birth. 40' 4 On the 23d inst., at Rochfort Villa, Gloucester-r°a d , f 0, gent's-park, Mrs. R. J. S. Todd, of a son. Sit ° 'On the 22d inst., at St. John's-wood-road, the Phillips, Esq., of a son HARRIED. , Cs e 2; On the 23d inst, at St. George's, Hanover-gine-krany mender George. Hope, Royal Navy, to Katherine ji b eldest daughter of William Leveson Gower, E s + ir , I d °s- e tr On the 23d inst., at St. Gebrge's Hanover-s 9 P Hubbard, Esq., of Bow, Middlesex, to. Mrs. Re " - derson, widow of the late Peter Henderson, DA' 0 DIED. . slis r ipsf• t . t he y. On the 12th inst., in London, aged 28, after 'P painful illness, Orange Webb Fraser, third son,_, e na ort s " A. G. Fraser, Edinburgh, in hope of a glorious i'' s 4. .5 Esteemed in life, regretted in death. Allen, Dig' On the 20th inst., at Frome, aged 62, Francis short On the 21st inst., at Guildford, Surrey, Wiiiin el 10 ton, Esq., late of Clapham, Surfey. f th e On the 21st inst., at Islington, Ann, widow ° Ss° Charles Hodgson, Esq. On the 23d inst., at Earl's-terrace, Keningtoliv 31r. . 1 -- Aylwin, Esq. ' rtit 'l : llF la • At Bath, Caroline Reinasrle, daughter of th n , liclaaitich 1:..A. . . --- -- , 1 01 - • — --- ri -e iro -1.71" 1 5, / London : Printed and Published by lIIIIRD , ' tio* o f • No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Offi ili c e ' c o ugti Strand, in the Precinct oftttp - Savoy, In """ t1 Middlesex, Friday, April 25, 1845. ' 1 4 1'44;43 JI)1, I st. Ilan Capt