The Sun. — London, England, 1851-03-19 00:00:00

CHESTER AND AY HOLYHEAD R. The usual half-yearly . meeting of the proprietors of the Chester and Holyhead Railway, was held yesterday, a t the Euston Station of the London and North-Western Railway, Mr. S. M. Peto, M.P., chair man of the board of directors, in the chair. The advertisement convening the meeting having been read, the minutes of the previous meeting were con firmed, and the common seal of the company affixed to the register of proprietors. The Caen:mem said the report and accounts had been extensively circulated, and he believed they had long been in the hands of every proprietor. Perhaps, there fore, it would be an unnecessary consumption of time to read them now, and he would suggest that they should be taken as read.—(Cries of " Yes, yes.") [The:accounts and report have already appeared in The Sun.] This was the first half-yearly meeting he had presided at, -and he was on that account naturally anxious to place before the proprietors a full elucidation of the principles which guide the course of the direc tors, as well as the position of the company and its future prospects. Having explained the circumstances under which he had been called upon to undertake the chairmanship of the company, the Hon. Gentleman pro ceeded to the immediate business of the meeting. The principles upon which he had taken the chair, and upon which his colleagues had given him their united confi dence, was the development of their traffic in every pos sible manner consistently with the preservation of the beat possible feeling towards all connecting interests in the various lines which were themselves united to this company, either as adjuncts or as allies in capital.— (Hear, hear.) The board had felt it to be their duty resolutely to work with the London and North-Western Company most harmoniously; and it was due to that company to state that they had met the Chester and Holyhead section of the board with the greatest amount of liberality and fair dealing. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") There had been no desire on the part of that company to take advantage of their own position. or of the difficulties of the Chester and Holyhead Company ; and it was to their forbearance, and their kindness, and their assistance, that the pro prietors were indebted for the bright prospects which it was his duty and pleasure to reveal to them to-day. :Acting upon the principle or basis of avoiding all unnecessary c ompetition, and bringing on the Chester and Holyhead' line the largest amount of traffi• - .1 that could be possibly obtained-by fair and legitimate means, the directors had concluded an arrangement with the London and North-Western and the Dublin Steam Packet Companies, which ho believed was fraught with the largest amount - •of benefit to themselves, while it would be equally beneficial to both those companies .he had • mentioned.—(Hear, hear.) The London and North-Western Company had conceded to them a large amount of reduction in the mileage rate of their working charges, and , although they might have.claimed the unexpired time of the ex isting contract, and continued for three years more to work the tern Ches and Holyhead line upon the old rate, yet pon this board approaching them to solicit a new arrangement, they at once con ceded a reduction which would save the Chester and Holyhead Company no less than 8,0001. per annum.— (Cheers.) The accounts for the half-year just termi nated had been made out upon the principle of the old rate, but had this agreement to which he was referring, and to which the meeting would be asked to give its approval to-day, been sealed, there would have been a saving from the 20th of September last up to the present time of nearly 2,0001., which of course would have been placed in the hands of the proprietors to-day in addition to the dividend to be declared on that occasion.—(Cheers.) - But that saving he viewed as the least advantage which would be derived from the united working of the three companies.— (Heer, hear.) The agreement with the Dublin steam Packet Company and the London and North-Western would enable this company to look through from every part of Ireland to every pert of England with which the two railway companies were connected, which was au , advantage that' cattle only be :appreciated by those wise had devoted time and trouble to the investigetion of the sirbjetrt. In the next peace the agreement contemplattol that the Lowden end North-Westera at! the Dublin Steam Packet Companies should do all that in them lay to throw nhon this lied, toe entirety of the Irish traffic, and this corepeny, in return, would do it possibly 'could to continae. to the London and North-Wesaarn Company, its natural ally, the entirety of the through traffic, while it left them perfectly iree to make ail such arrangements as could conduce to the entire development of its local traffic. The arrangement contemplated the sale of the steam-boats belonging to the company to the Dublin Steam Packet Company, - upon the arbitration of individuals selected on both sides, and in the event of the arbitrators not being able to agree, they were to choose an umpire.—(Hear.) Until the money was paid, this company did not release its hold upon the boats, while the purchase money was to be paid by annual instalments, the balances carrying interest; so that on the whole they stood in a position of perfect security, and on a sound commercial footieg.—(Hear, hear.) Such, then, was the effect of the arrangement which had been come to between the three companies. Now, with regard to the position - of their own line, many of the proprietors who bad not been upon it were possibly not aware that at the present moment they had no line to Holyhead at all, for although they had spent 165,0004 on steam-boats, which, he maintained, all things considered, was a most judicious expenditure, yet at the present moment their terminus was c full mile and a quarter from the end of the pier at Holyhead.—(Hear, hear.) They lost by that break, owing to the inconvenience which resulted from the transfer of the traffic, and parti cularly of goods, to the present temporary station, a large amount of advantage which their line would naturally present to individuals going to Ireland.— (Hear, hear.) The directors had, however, made ar rangements for getting rid of this obstacle, and he might state in parenthesis that they were entirely indebted to the exertions and influence of his colleague Mr. Stanley, for being able to carry out those arrangements.—(Hear, hear.) They had agreed for the construction of a temporary line, without any charge from her Majesty's Government; and though the ar rangement would secure, with the new goods station and a new passenger station, and the erection of a hotel and refreshment rooms, and everything necessary to render the line popular in connexion with the immediate transit of the steam-boats, it was calcu lated that the expenditure for all this would not exceed 23,000/. ; and when he stated to them that this amount of expenditure, and its interest would be repaid in five years by the saving it would effect in the existing system of removing goods by carts, and in the conveyance of passengers by omnibuses, he thought the proprietors would have reason to congratulate themselves upon the successful and advantageous nature of the arrangement.—(Hear.) They had also made arrangements, in pursuance of the authority given at the last half-yearly meeting, with Colonel Pennant by which extensive slate quarries were put in connexion with the railway, and a similar arrangement had been concluded with Mr. Ashton Smith for placing Conway quarries also in connexion withehe line, and the company was now in Parliament seeking powers, with the view of extending the line to the port of Conway.--(llear.) Arrange meats were al<o pending with various companies in the midland district, by which Irons one point alone they would obtain mineral traffic, to the extent of 100,000 tons, which would have to travel over the whole length of their line. That was a fact which would convince the meeting that the mineral traaic of this company was wholly untouched.—(Hear.) They had also arranged for a " siding" at Conway; and the party for whom this "siding" was to be constructed would pay them 10/. per cent. annually on the outlay. This also was for the purpose of accommodating the mineral traffic, and when he remembered that one indi vidual alone during the present year had rent upwards of 20,000 tons of slate flags to London by the line, he thought the meeting would, agree with him that by these arrangements they were se curing an immense soarce of income, which at present was perfectly and entirely undeveloped.— (Hear.) While he was on the subject as to developing traffic, he would refer to a circumstance which occurred at the moment to his mind which he thought reflected great credit on one of the offi cers of the company. Although he occupied the Lumble situation of a station master, he thought it right to mention his name on the present occasion to stimulate others to a similar course of conduct, and to show the proprietors the advantage of having zealous and faithful servants. The station Master at Conway observing the large quantity of shell fish that abounded on the coast, endeavoured to induce the fishermen to engage in the trade of selling that Pleeticuear commodity, but felling in that attempt he ap- P l eat° thecompany toinvest a small sum with the view;of ascertaining the practicability of establishing such a ' trade• d when he told the meeting that at the present moment the e em e atay were cerrying from that station alone to 21teetiiZter between 150 000 and 200,000 shell fish per month, he thought the meeting would agree with him that thaeteaviment had been most successful. Th e result had not only to increase their profit, but the trade emplo the . fishing population, but the whole of the women the fish or n and children in preparing and sortingl market, and thus besides ' con t r ibuting to the interest and Welfare of that parti t added t o t h e i r co ff ers, cuter part of the population, and those of t h e London and North-We s t ern , no less than 2,000/. per annuan—(Llear.) lie new approached another branch of his sub j ect, th at was the financial position of the compa n y' . When they last met they were in the position of a corporation crus hed with the amount of its debts, and they way clearly out of their difficu l did not th en see their way n — ' —ear i h e".) At the present moment they had no difficultie s what. ever—(Cherrs)—for they ha d, b y thy: assistan ce of the North-V, ,;stern Company, arof by the exertions o f individual members of the board in o'otaining temporary loans, been placed in a position of ssftAy and security, and the rad cling of to-day would 1 - .de enabled to create the preferenth;l stock which was alluded to on a for mer occasion, but not et the origins l interest, but at such a rate of interest as their improved prospects would command, aryl which hr. had no doubt the money m ar k et w ou ld rea dil y respond to.—(Hcar. hear.) It had been said that the board hgcl created these shares at too low a rate of interest, but when lie stated to them, that, after having ievestieattd every cir cumstance connected with the railway taking into consideration the exteesion of the line at Holyhead —taking also into account a fact which he had on the authority of the engineer engagd d at Helalicad, that one arm of the new harbour would shortly be extended 720 fedt, giving twenty-two v , , ent tieetn of water ea the ebb tide, thus enabling the American packets always t o call e there—bParin in min d also that the directors would always - ease f. train ready for, the reception of the Psb.'entters landing from those packets,, and the, everything would he done to promote their ease, comfort, and accommoda tion—looking at. the large A tat.iunt of mineral traffic which they were likely hereafter to obW.n, and which at the present moment was simply stopped for the want of the extension, sine,: last week he was obliged to re fuse a contract to carry 75,000 tons of ship coal to the port of Holyhead, because the company was not in a condition to carry them to the water's edge,—when he took into account all these various points, and taking them for what they were worth, he thought that in the course of next year he would be placed in the pleasing situation of telling the old proprietors connected with the company, who had exhibited so much patience and forbearance, that the profits had attained that pitch which would enable them to declare a 3 per cent. dividend— (Cheers) —he might be thought by some to be too sanguine in this matter, but he could only assure the meeting that if he did not believe that the exertions which must and should be made in connexion with their traffic would answer, ho would not on this occasion have made this statement, which he firmly believed time would prove to be correct.— (Cheers.) Now, another point to which he wished to refer was the hotel accommodation in the Straits of Bangor. The directors were anxious to accommodate the large number of visitors who annually visited the beauti ful scenery of that district. During the last season this pleasure traffic was necessarily impeded by the want of hotel accommodation, and, therefore, on this occasion the directors had to make a novel proposal to the meeting, but one which he under stood other companies had not been loath to adopt. They were unanimously prepared to recommend the pro prietors to embark in the necessary expenditure for erecting an hotel for the accommodation of those to whom he had already alluded.—(Hear, hear.) Par ties of the highest respectability were prepared to take the hotel at a rental which would yield a very large interest on the money so expended; while, on the other hand, the directors would take care to make such an arrangement as to ensure to the public the use of the hotel at reasonable terms, and to obtain accom modation for first, second, and third-class passengers, at prices which they could not hope to meet with in pri vate establishments.—(Hear, hear.) Of course this ar rangement, besides the interest he had already spoken of, would secure them a large addition to their traffic, and he was sure, therefore, the meeting would not be plow iu perceiving the advantages of this proposal. He felt he had detained the meeting rather longer than he ought to have done on the present occasion, but it had been his anxiety to put them in possession of all the information in his power, and if there was any point which he had not touched upon, and information were required respecting it, that information should be given in the frankest and most open manner.—(Hear, hear.) They had nothing to con ceal from the proprietors, as they were but the represen tatives of the proprietors themselves; and while they continued to enjoy their confidence their best exertions should be given to the development of the undertaking, but the moment they perceived that they had not that confidence they would retire at once, as no amount of remuneration could compensate them for the attention they bestowed on the affairs of the company.—(Cheers.) The chairman concluded by moving the adoption of the report. Captain MooxsoM seconded the motion. After a long and very desultory discussion, in the course of which Mr. HENMAN deprecated the proceed ings pursued by the directors, designated them as ille gal, and called on the proprietors to mark their sense of it by not adopting the report, he moved as an amend ment to that report that the directors had forfeited the confidence of the proprietary by issuing more debenture shares than they had authority to do. The CHAIRMAN in putting the amendment denied that the directors had issued any more debentures than they were intitled to do. All the debentures that had been issued had been issued under the best legal advice. None regretted more than he did the vast expense that had been incurred by the present company in the great works they had undertaken, but they had this consola tion, that in that vast outlay they had obtained for them .4.lves the great high road to Ireland, from which no one could deprive them.— (Hear.) A PROPRIETOR thought, that as the original share holders could not live out of the property of the line, they ought to have some benefit from the property en joyed by the preference shareholders. He thought the original shareholders ought to have one-third of the pro perty of the line, and moved as amendment to that effect. Mr. JACKSON defended the course adopted by the di rectors. He had little doubt that next year they would make Bangor the Brighton of Wales, and would open a communication with Ireland which would be highly profitable to the company, aided, as they doubtless would be, by the London and North- Western Company. He had no doubt that by pursuing proper course the credit of the company, which had been blown upon in the stock market, would be made secure, a stock would be raised that would always in sure a certain profit, and all the proprietors of the com pany might laugh at the stock market.—(Hear.) Major BUCHANNAN defended the conduct pursued by the directors, and said a great deal of time had been wasted in endeavouring to blacken their conduct. The CHAIRMAN then put the amendment, which was negatived by a large majority, and the report was de clared to be carried. The CHAIRMAN then moved that 16a. 6d. a share should be paid on the preference shares, which was agreed to, after a short but rather stormy discussion. Mr. Jecasori moved that the directors who went out by rotation should be re-elected. Captain FINLAISON bore the highest testimony to the conduct and character of Mr. Peto, and asserted that as long as he was in the chair, he had no fear for the interest of the company.—(Hear.) Mr. PETO returned thanks, and felt no doubt that if his life was spared all that he had stated that day would be realised. _ -- --- Alderman TsoittrsoN and the other directors who went oat by rotation also returned thanks for their re election. They had hitherto had to do with rocks and quicksands, but they were now, thank God, in smooth water.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HENICLOI then moved the appointment of a com mittee of inquiry, which was lost by a large majority. The meeting was then made special, for the purpose of rescinding certain resolutions for creating preference shares, for considering the traffic arrangements with the London and North-Western Railway Company for the purpose of authorising the directors to construct and maintain a temporary railway from the present terminus to Holyhead, for the purpose also of authorising the di rectors to erect an hotel near Bangor, and also consider ing the draft of a Bill to give the company power to ex tend their railway. Resolutions for the purpose of carrying out these pur poses were carried after a short though personal dis cussion. _ --- In the course of the discussion on the resolutions, A PROPRIETOR complained of the difficulty that was experienced by passengers in seeing the Conway Bridge unless they feed the policemen. Tho CHAIRMAN said that all had been done by the di rectors to afford every facility to tho public to see that great work, and that after the Ist of May special instruc tions would be issued on the subject. A. vote of thanks was then carried to the Chairman and directors, and the meeting adjourned at a late hour EASTERN COUNTIES RAILWAY. An adjourned meeting of the shareholders in the' Eastern Counties Railway Company was held yesterday, in the large room of the London Tevern, in conformity with the resolution agreed to at the former meeting. Mr. Glynn occupied the chair. There was a very numerous attendance of proprietors. The proceedings were opened by Captain Kelly presenting the report of the committee of shareholders, which had been appointed at a special general meeting on the 13th of February, to consider the propriety of making a working agreement with the Eastern Union and the Norfolk Railway. (This report has already been published.) Captain KELLY then moved the adoption of the et - port, which was seconded by Mr. PAULDING. After some discussion the CHAIRMAN proceeded to state the objection which he entertained to the report. He contended that had the committee been placed in a similar position -to the directors they would have been obliged to make exactly the same ar rangement. After going through the report the Hun. Gentleman proceeded to comment on the state ment which the committee had put forth that they had opened a negodatiun with the other two companies, by soliciting an interview with deputations from those com panies. With reference to this he would refer them to a letter which he had received from Mr. Cobbold, of the Norfolk Railway, on the subject of this interview, which had been forwarded to Captain Kelly : (Copy.) " 7, Pall-mall East, Mardi. 7,1851. "My dear Sir,—l deem it only due to you, I ; well as to my colleagues and myself, to detail to you prior to the meet ing of the Eastern Counties shareholders to-morrow, the re sult of the meeting which took place at the request of the shareholders' committee, and in accordance with the wish ex pressed by the Board of Directors of the Eastern Counties Company, between the deputations of the Eastern Union Company and the Norfolk Company and the shareholders' committee. " The desire of the committee that we should meet them having been communicated to the secretaries of the two companies, through the secretary of the committee, I lost no time in obtaining the sanction of the deputation of the Eastern Counties board, with whom we were appointed to negotiate, to such meeting; and I proceeded to Norwich my self, to urge my friend Mr. Bignold to come up and attend the meeting, as one of the Eastern Union deputation who had signed the agreement, knowing that he had an engage ment at Norwich of some importance on the day named for the meeting, _and being apprehensive that a letter might have failed in prevailing on him to forego his other engage ments. "I also went to another member of the deputation of the 1 \ Eastern Union Company to come up from Scarborough , and both these gentlemen, as well as several others, attended at , great p ersona l i nconven i ence , as we were all anxious to give the committee appointed by the Eastern Counties share hollers e a a n r } d - explanation p o l u a r n r a n t s io p n en w ti h v i e ch co t m h p e yanliileisg.ht be entitled to ask 1 with regard "We attended accordin g l y, and the committee at the Bishopsgate Station after some preliminary polite expressions on the par. o f the c hn irman of the committee of s hareholders, 1 wewere simply i n f., mned by him that the committee had already com e to a I shareholders to rejec u t i t i l animous resolution to recommend the in type, and would be agreement, and that their report was but one, and we therefor, tookconcur our leave; all the gentlem e n r in feelin g th a t, t o use t h e m ild es t term, such tre a t ment towards us was most un- I courteous. . " How far it accorded with their ' shareholdevs, by whom they were ellties to the body of appointed, I must leave it 1 to themselves to explain, and to their report to just ( ' "It is quite unnecessary for me to make any comment y. I ...3 , comment on has already been eat that report, as it. mated at its value by the public; but I in vited by the committee at our meeting, have suggested that the interest of the capital to be invested inthe rolling stock would have been taken into account in the 451 . per which the Eastern Counties w ere . per cent. working expenses to have deducted from the gross receipts, and still they would THE SUN, LONDON, have had ample margin, if the statement and comparison of the chairman of the shareholders' committee at a late meet ing, with reference to the working expenses on the Brighton line, is worth anything, and I might have directed the at tention of the committee to the fucts that the earnings of the Eastern Counties Company, stated at 702,4531., includes the receipts for cartage and deliveries on both the Norfolk line and their own, and that the earnings of the Eastern Union Company, stated by their committee at 96,7151., were for the year ending in June last, for the best six months of which, as they well knew, the extension line was not opened to Nor wich, and that the weekly returns do not include the cartage and delivery receipts. " The committee, however, thought fit, instead of seeking information, to found their opinion on the imperfect data which they obtained, including the joint report of the prin cipal officers of the company, offered as the officers' una nimous opinion, in compliance with a request made the previous day only,' upon a subject of deep importance to thousands of individuals, having an investment of millions of capital. "Believe me yours faithfully, (Signed) "Jonas CITETALLIER CoBBOLD. " Joseph Glynn, Esq." Mr. ELM/3 considered that the committee had not performed the duty which had been confided to them by the shareholders. They had had entrusted to them by the shareholders the consideration of the terms of an agreement between the three railways, but all they had done was to condemn the agreement without offering any suggestion of their own. The committee had depreciated the guarantee 9, they had diminished the receipts of the Norfolk Railway from 111,0001. to 96,0001. ; and they had entirely omitted all mention of the diminution of the working expenses which would take place to the amount of 21,0001., all which items would decrease the loss to the Eastern Counties Railway to 8,300/. instead of 70,8781., which small loss was one-fourth of what they were now losing by the competition of these two rail ways at the present moment. If they did not take this opportunity of making this coalition, they would have to repent afterwards, and no doubt some other railway would step in and make an agreement which would be much more detrimental to the interests of the Eastern Counties Railway. Mr. BROADBENT dissented entirely from these calcula tions. He could not see how the company could fail of losing at least 50,0001. per annum if this agreement were carried. He eulogised the report of the committee as an able statement, considering the deficient information which had been furnished to them. Captain KELLY vindicated the committee from the allegations which had been thrown out against them. The directors had certainly not shown any great anxiety to furnish the committee with information, but they had certainly come to the conclusion that, though they did not wish to doubt the integrity of the directors, yet they had very considerable doubts as to their judgment. Mr. NATHAN complained of the conduct of the direc tors in wishing to hang their millstones round the necks of the shareholders. He thought the sooner they got rid of the present board the better, they could not have a wore• set.—(Cheese.) Mr. Cox entirely approved of the report; it had cer tainly changed his opinion of the board of directors. Mr. WADDINGTON, who was received with mingled cheers and groans, denied that the committee had not carried out the instructions of the shareholders; they had performed their duty, and a nice exposure they had made of the conduct of the directors. When the di rectors called a meeting together to seal the agreement, the information which they afforded to the meeting was anything but correct. The statement in the report was essentially correct, and it was impossible, by any species of argument, to contradict them. As to the Chairman's statement that it was he who had furnished all the information to the committee, that was not quite the fact. because in truth the committee had irst called the Chairman's attention to the circumstances. As to the depreciation of receipts from 111,000/. to 96,0001, the reason of that was that at the time of flaking this statement the committee had thought it best to mike a contemporary return of the three dompanies, and this sum was the last return which they had in their possession of the Eastern Union Railway Company. The committee had taken the r,test pains in performing their duty; they had set before the shareholders everything which they thought they ought to know, and had suppressed nothing. He was convinced that at some future period the share holders would thank the committee for their exertions. Mr. MAXWELL COllSidleGti that the company had been injured by the rivalry of individuals, and he should re commend that the railway should be placed under the management of one paid individual. He was in favour of an amalgamation, and with this view he should move as an amendment, that the agreement of the 13th of Fe bruary be adopted.—(Cheers and hisses.) Mr. GEACH had gone into the committee with every desire to carry out the agreement of amalgamation; but he had been obliged to alter his opinion by the evidence which had been produced. He was, however, of opinion that the amalgamation in some shape or other would be for the advantage of the company, and, with a view to that, he should recommend that the directors should acquiesce in the report, and allow the matter to drop, in order that it might be taken up at some future time, when it could be discussed with less warmth. After a most interrupted and noisy discussion, The CmunricArr set the anxieties of the meeting at rest by assuring them that the proxies would not be used at the special meeting. Mr. 11.11.18,GREANIES (a director), in a speech of great length, which excited the enthusiastic cheers of the meeting, denounced the agreement. If passed, the 6,000,0001 of the Eastern Counties Company would have been ruined, and remarked with great severity upon the interest which the Norfolk Company took in fastening their guarantees upon the Eastern Counties Company. At the conclusion of his speech the cheers of the meeting were deafening. Mr. DANIEL WHITTLE MATEY, in a speech of great humour, supported the committee, and earnestly called upon the shareholders to exercise a careful discretion at the present crisis of their fortunes. Mr. Sergeant GASELEE took occasion to attach great blame to the Northern and Eastern directors. Mr. KENNARD defended the course those directors had pursued. The resolution for the adoption of the report of the committee was then put and carried unanimously. A supplemental report of the committee was then read for continuing the services of that body; and the following resolution will best explain the intentions of the proprietary. Adopting the, supplementary report, the resolution proceeded in these terms :—" And that they (the com • mittee) be requested to continue their services, with a view of bringing their negotiations with the Newmarket Railway to a close, and that the committee have power to enter into negotiations with any other company or companies for the purpose of effecting traffic arrange ments between them and the company; and that such committee do report the result of such negotiations for the approval or otherwise of the shareholders at a special meeting to be convened for the purpose." The resolution having been carried unanimously, the business of the special meeting was declared to be at an end. The adjourned half-yearly meeting was then held. The business was to discuss the remaining paragraphs in the report, the adoption of the report, and the forfeiture of certain shares; and the election of two directors was to be disposed of, in the place of Mr. Margreaves and Mr. Smyth. The proceedings were of the most tumultuous —or, perhaps, we should rather say excited character. The result, however, was, that upon the nomination of Mr. Margreaves, Mr. Archibald Boyd was nominated in opposition by .Dl.. Whalley. Upon being put to a show of hands Mr. Margreaves was declared to bo elected by a considerable majority. Mr. WlLlLLEY'demanded a poll, amid a perfect storm of yells. Upon Mr. Smyth being put in nomination, Mr. Whalley was placed in nomination in opposition, and upon a show of hands Mr. Smyth was declared duly elected. . . A poll was demanded for .Mr. Whalley. The CHAIRMAN then, in a very handsome manner, stated that the seat at the board vacant by the resigna tion of Mr. Betts should be placed at the disposal of the shareholders. a matter of form, that seat could only be filled by the directors; but in the present state of af fairs, the directors would be happy to follow out the re commendations of the meeting. Mr. WADDINGTON would take that opportunity of ex onerating himself from the charges that had been made against him in connexion with that company. He had accepted, -it was true, 1,0001. of the company's money, but he did so in the•belief that the directors had ordered its payment to him for ,the services which he had ren dered to the company, by bringing up its tragic from 6,0001. a week to 13,0001. a week, and for attending to the Parliamentary affairs of the company. When, how eVer, the new directors had called upon him and pointed out the objection that had been made to this sum being handed to him, he repaid it —(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman made other statements to show• that he had refused to accept shares in this railway and in other companies, arid had declined to accept offers of other kinds, because he believed that to act in a contrary man ner would have , been to have adopted a course Oast would be inconsistent with right.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Jacksort said, that in 1847, when the London and Westminatelßank refused to cash the company's cheques, he' (Mr. Jackson) had made effective ar rangements to carry on the financial concerns of the company. The proposition that Mr. Waddington be placed on the direction was carried, and a poll demanded. Mr. RONEY announced that the poll would take place at ten o'clock to-morrow (this day), and terminate at four o'clock. The meeting then separated. MARKET IN TEL LIGENCE. (From the London New Price Current, March 18.) SUGAR.—To-day importers of West India Sugar refused to sell under the rates of Friday; but the home trade demand was small. The private purchases.are only 152 hhds, &c, and there was no public sale. REFINED.—To-day Crushed Sugar was offered at lower rates; but there were few buyers. The home trade demand is limited for Refined, still there is no decline in prices. MAURITIUS.—This afternoon there was more disposition evinced to operate in Mauritius Sugar; at public sale 5,783 bags went at full rates, Gne yellow sold at 40s to 41s, low to go4,d 36s Gd to 39s 6 d, refining kinds 35s to 40s, low an d very ord brown 27s to 325, and better sorts 33s to 36s per cwt. EAST INDIA.—This afternoon there was a good demand for Bengal Sugar, and 4,093 bags at auction realised full rates; the Khaur kinds, however, went rather cheaper. The prices paid were for low dingy white Benares 39s to 40s, damp and washed 385 to 40s, fine g ra i ny yellow 42s 6d to 43s Gd, mid and good 38s 6d to 41s, fair and mid soft yellow 31s Gd to 375, and brown ditto ,e7s Gd to 30s 6d. Madras realises full terms for superior sorts, lint low went rather cheaper : at auction 1,117 bags sold, soft brawn 27s to 29e, yellow 30s to 345, and bright 35s to 37s 6d. FOREIGN.—To-day there was no public sale of Foreign Sugar, and privately perations were upon a small scale with sellers at rather lower rates. ivleLAßsEs.—Prices have further declined for West India still a ;Air business has been concluded, and the sales are 210. puns Barbadoes at 16a and 200 puns other SOM.' r ~ WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 19, 1851. 15s to 16s 6d per cwt. East India and Mauritius are dull of sale at 1.2 s to 13s, but at present few parcels are on ~ffer. Porto Rico and Cuba are held fur 14s to 16-; but few buyers are to be met with. Honey is wanted and the rates paid for West India are from 35s to 60s for low to fine. COFFEE.—This afternoon there was no farther advance for Plantation Ceylon Coffee,but a good demand existed ; at suc tion 1,100 bags, 114 casks nearly all sold at full rates, middlng colory went at 57s,fine ord to low middling 52s to 5686 d, fine fine ord, greyish: 52s 6d to 545, low and good ord 46s to 48s 6d, common Triage 38s, damaged 44s to 525, and sound pea berry 59s to 61s. Native is not offered under 46s for good, but there are few buyers. Other kinds are held with firm ness, but shippers or home dealers were not much dis posed to operate this afternoon. At auction 299 bags Java were taken in at 47s to 48s 6d for good and fine ord, 102 casks Bombay wynard Plantation, sold at 57s 6d for low middling colory, and at 60s for peaberry ; 15 brls Jamaica were all taken in at 48s to 50s for good ord, 16 bags Bahia 455, 189 bags Costa Rica at 49s 6d to 50s, but damaged sold at 45s to 4Es 6d, and 65 bags Rio ditto 38s per cwt. CocoA.—To-day at public sale 27 bags Bahia Cocoa sold at 308 for blight red. TEA.—Today rather lower rates being accepted for com mon Congou occasioned large parcels to be sold at 11 dto Is per lb for new import. RlCE.—Today there was more business concluded pri vately in Easy, India Rice, but holders were compelled to ac cept previous low rates. Sricscs.—Tt-day at public sale 175 bags Pimento sold at rather lower rates—middling 4/d to ad, good ord 4id, and one lot very common 3ild per lb. Sninrrs.—Orly small purchases have been made in East India Rum, btt there are not sellers under is 6d proof. Leeward Islam, is dull of sale, and the nearest price is la 8d proof. Operations in Demerara have been to a limited extent only at 2s 5d to 2s 8d for BO to 40 overproof. sine Jamaica from 34 to 38 per cent. over is wanted at 38 8 to 4s Ed; but for other sorts the market has a dull aspect, and a desire is evinced to sell 30 to 36 over proof, of low and good quality, at 2s 8d to 3s 6d. In Brandy there continues to be little doing for any purpose ; there are free sellers of Cognac brands of the vintage of 1850 at 4s 4d to 4s 6d, 1849 ditto 4s 7d to 4s 9d, 1848 ditto 4s 10d to 58, 1847 ditto 5s 25 to 5s 4d, and inferior sorts 3s to 4s. In Geneva sales are upon a more extended scale, common at ls 7d to Is Bd, and fine ls 9d to 2s; the value is still 9s 8d to 9e 9d for British made Spirit; and for Gin 8s 3d for 22 per cent. under proof. SALTPETRE. — The market to day for Calcutta presented a dull aspect, and of 3,062 bags at auction a small part only sold at 26s fol refraction 9* to 8* per cent, being rather cheaper ; the remainder was taken in at 26s to 26s 6d for refraction 8 to 14 ?er cent of common quality. INDlOo.—There are not generally sellers under last quar terly sales' rates, bat there is a reluctance on the part of shippers and home dealers to do busin ess . Spanish is held for late dates ; the market is in a quiet position, and there is a fair quantity on offer. COCHINEAL. —The best sorts are wanted at full rates, but for inferior there is adull demand, and having a large supply prices have further declined. At auction 300 bags were nearly all sold; Horduras silvers went at 3s 4d to 3s 10d, Mexican silvers 3s 21, black 3s 4d to 3s Bd, and Teneriffe at 3s 5d to 35 6d per lb, For suction 00 bags declared. FRUlT.—Currants have been in good demand at from 35s to 395, and good to fne 40s to 465. Turkey palled Figs are operated in with morn freedom at 42s to 60s. In Raisins there is yet little witness doing; but sales are not pressed; Valencia 38s to 40s. TALLOW.—The denand continues active for Russian on the spot, and there as been a further advance, fine new Y. C. selling at 41s, and old at 39s to 39s 6d per cwt. For delivery in last three months of the year several transactions nave taken place, and4ls 3d to 4:s Od paid for new. Home melted is not offered trader 37s 6d nett cash. AR advance was obtained for other sons, and at auction 850 casks Australian were nearly all sold at from 34s to 38s for low to fine; 750 pkgs South American 35s to 40s, and 20 cks Belgian 36s 9d to 37s 9d per cwt. Jor auction 1,000 casks of Tallow are declared. On s.—There has been a good business done in Cod pri vately. A public saleof 39 tons went at 371 15s to 381 per tun. For Southern lag rates are not to be obtained. Of 80 tuns at auction a small part only sold at 301 lOs to 311 lOs for first and iecond sort. Seal pale is selling at 321 108 to 33/, tad other sorts at 301 to 31/. For Sperm holders evince more firmness. At auction, 12 tuns were sold at 841 lOs togq for first sort, and some holders ask 85/ lOs to 861. Cocoa Nut is offered at a reduction, Of 130 pkgs at auction a part only sold ; Sydney at 27s 9d to 28s 6d, and Ceylon aL 29s to 29s 6d per cwt. For Linseed Oil more desire is evinced to sell at 33s 6d on the spot and for delivery, at 35s 9d to 31s. Rape Seed Oil pale is offercd at 34s to 355, blown 335 to Ms 6d ; East India ditto 3 es to 32s 6d, and Foreign refined 31i 3d to 35s 6d. For Olive few buyers are to be met with. G4lipoli is to be obtained at 411 lOs to 42/, and other sorts at 41/ to 41l per tun. For Palm there are several buyers, and 29s to 29s 6d paid for fine. Head matter continues scarce and wanted at 90/ to 941 per tun. For auction 500 casks Ctcoa Nut aro declared for Friday. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OP LORDS, March 18. The LORD CIIANCEILOR, took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. COURT OF CHANCERY (IRELAND) REGULA TION ACT AMENDMENT BILL. On the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR, this . Bill was read a second time. PETITIONS. 'The Earl of MOUATCASHELL presented several petitions against Papal aggression. The Earl of LANEBBOROUGH presented several petitions against the admission of Jews into Parliament. 'Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from some place in Norfolk against Papal aggression. The tdarquis of BREADALBANE presented a petition from certain members of the Free Church of Scotland censuring the measure of the Government for repelling Papal aggression. lie sonld not concur with the peti tioners. It was a most delicate question on which to legislate, and he thought that Government was entitled to the gratitude of the country for the vigour with which they had met the aggression. The Earl of WINCEILSEA presented several peti tions against Papal aggression. He considered the Go vernment Bill was unworthy of the Government and of the country. C)YLON. Viscount TORRINGTON rose to give notice of a motion for this day fortnight on the affairs of Ceylon. He was anxious to take the earliest opportunity of vin dicating himself from tht accusations which had been b roug ht against him in relation to the affairs of Ceylon. While this matter was the su bj ec t of investigation be fore a Select Committee of th e other House of Parlia ment ho felt that he was condemned to silence. A notice of motion had been given in that House for March 25th, imputing to him the commi ss i on o f th e graves t cr i m es ; that m L o dehipa ad been attent io n g ave notice that, he sho p uli, this day fortnight, direct their t h h a e d fi keen i c 1a affairs withdrawn , of a ccused of the greatest crimes by the Chairman of the e t r ion had ostponed, and, therefore, he to this subject. He had been C omm itt e e, who had a p er f ect k now l e d ge o f t h e f ac t s ; t and, h e country, h however he thought the characters of a M em b er o f th e ir Lordships' House, of a Minister of th e C rown, an d o f t h e troops i n Ceylon, ought not to be lightly treated. He had no thing to conceal, he believed he had faithfully dis charged his duty to hit Sovereign and his country, and he should not have brought forward the motion of which he had given notice it he had not been prepared to justify all he had d one . H e h a d g i ve n this notice in order to afford ample opportunity to those who had any charg e to bring forward against him; he should be prepared to justify hi mse lf an d t o a pp ea l t o the kindness, the attention, and the justice of the House, satisfied that he should be enabled to prove to their Ldrdships that the accusations which had been brought against him were wholly without foundation.—(Hear.) COUNTY COURT'S EXTENSION BILL. Lord BROUGHAM would, on Friday, move the second reading of this Bill, and would then state the additions and alterations he proposed to make in the Bill. The Bill to which he alluded was the Bill to which he had last drawn t he attentio n o f th e ir Lord s hips, and had nothing to do w ith bankruptcy. "Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF CONMONS, March 18. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. HASTINGS IMPROVEMENT BILL. On the second reading of this Bill being moved by Mr. PIGOTT, Mr. HOLLAND said that he must move that this Bill b must, as Hon. Members were aware, arise from the.. readin institution utis day six months. Many inconveniences onof several boards of commissioners. The town was at present abundantly supplied with the conveniences which the Bill was introduced to cure, and the Bill was therefore neither mord nor less than an incubus which was already provided for. . Mr. PIGO rT said the Bill was merely of a sanitary nature, and therefore to oppose it was only a work of supererogation. The Bill, if passed, would work a great improvement in the peculiar position of the town, and was certain to secure a great benefit for the inhabitants. FREWEN said that when he saw the names of three Members on the back of a Bill, and one of those rt2fused to , give his sanction to it, he believed that a suffi cient reason had been supplied for the rejection of the Bill. He should therefore vote against it. :The House then di v id e d , w h en th e re appeared— For the a mendment t Majority ••• ••• 59 Against ,The Bill was consequently lost. FIRST READINGS. Several Bills were then read a first time. PETITIONS. ;Mr. VILLIERS presented a petition from Wolver hampton praying for the establishment of county financial boards. Lord C#ARLES M ANNERS an d sev eral other M em b ers presented petitions from Brighton and other places against the Papal aggression. Mr. BRIMSTONE and Sir E. BUXTON presented several petitions against the Bill for the removal of Smithfield market. ... -38 Sir R. INGLIS presented petitions from Clerkenwell and other places, praying the House to take some mea sures for repressing The Hex. B ARONET also presente d pet i t i ons f rom several places pr a yi ng that t h e J ews ' O at h Bill may not pass into a law. the Papal aggression. Mr. MI rc Emu, presented a petition, signed by many influential mercantile firms in London, prayinz for an.inquiry into the management of the Board of Cus toms. Mr. SHAFTO ADAIR presented a petition from Cambridgeshire praying that the present Papal aggres sion Bill might not pass into a law. Colonel GILPIN presented several petitions for and against the Eccle.iastical Titles Bill, and for and against the Financial Boards Bill. Mr. WILLIAMS presented a petition, very nu merously signed, praying for the abolition of Sunday trading. They stated that nothing was obtained for the Exchequer by Sunday trading, and that in other ways much was lost to the nation. Sir DE LACY EVANS presented pretitiona from theparishes of St. John's and St. Margaret's, Westmin ster; praying for some alteration in the tariff. Mr. SPOONER presented a petition from the Bath Asibciation for the promotion of Protestant Prtnciplqs,' stating that within the last few years no — less a sum than 383,0001. had been granted by 1.• thu i povernment for promoting the encouragement of the Romiah religion. Lord NAAS presented several petitions from Sligo and other phteel pr vice for 5 r , -rn'sqinn of the anties on norm-made spirits. Mr. SCULLY presented a petition from the county of Tipperary praying for the imposition of a duty on foreign -corn and flour imported into this country, and stating that unless such duty was imposed tho farmers in that part of the country would be ruined. Mr. Grogan Mr. Frewen, and other Members pre sented: a large number of petitions against the Papal aggression. and praying the House to adopt stringent measures for its repression. Mr. P. HOWARD presented a petition from Carlisle, and another from Darlington, against the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill. PRIVATE MONEY DRAINAGE ACT. Mr. B. COCHRANE postponed his motion respecting lhe extension of the Private Money Drainage Act of 1849 until this day fortnight. jEWISEI DISABILITIES. Sir G. GREY, for Lord J. Russell, postponed until Monday next the notice of motion, which stood No. 7 on the orders of the day, for " a committee of the whole House, to take into consideration the mode of administering the oath of abjuration to persons profess ing the Jewish religion." THE CENSUS. Mr. GOULBURN wished to call the attention of the Home Secretary to the fact that among the inquiries which had been addressed to different classes for the purpose of taking the proposed census, clergy men of the Church of England were required to give an account of the number of persons attending their place of worship, and also to make returns of their items of income with greater minuteness than was even required for the property-tax. He thought it was ex tremely unfair that a clergyman should be required to answer such questions. Sir G. GREY stated that a letter had been addressed by the Registrar-General to all such individuals, inform ing them that they were not legally bound under a penalty to answer these queries. The Government wished to obtain as accurate information as possible with respect to the number of places of worship, and of the aggregate of religious education throughout the country, and it was hoped that clergymen would forward this ob. ject as much as possible. With regard to the question of return of income there would be no objection to with hold those queries. PUBLIC BUSINESS. Mr. DISRAELI said an inquiry was made yesterday respecting the probable conduct of public business, and he should be glad to know from the Right Honourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he rightly understood the answer to that question. He understood the Right Honourable Gentleman to say that he did not intend to proceed with the financial state ment on Friday, and that it was proposed to take the army estimates immediately after the close of the ad journed debate. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Hon. Gentleman had correctly stated what fell from him last night. It would be necessary to take the army estimates the first open day after the second read- ing of the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill had been disposed of. NEW HOUSE OF COMMONS. Viscount DUNCAN wished to ask the Member for Lancaster, when the New House of Commons would be ready for the reception of Members; whether the gild ing of the roof, and other costly decorations of the New House of Commons, had been introduced under the sanction and by the order of the Commissioners of the New Palace of Westminster, and what provision had been made for a better supply of water in case of any future accident by fire? Mr. GREENE, in reply to the first question, could state what Mr. Barry had written him, which was this—" As soon as the walls are sufficiently dry—(A laugh)—we shall proceed with the finishing, which may be completed by Whitsuntide." With regard to the second question, he could only say that the Committee rooms of the new House of Commons should be fitted up as plain as possible, so as to be in as strong contrast with the House of Lords as possible.—(Laughter.) Tho Commissioners, however, certainly did authorise the in-. troductioa of painted glass. With regard to the last question, he had simply to state that neither Mr. Barry nor the Commissioners had anything to do with the supply of water. Mr. THORNELY wished to know if the Commis sioners had ever thought of gaining a supply of water. from the River Thames in case of fire? Mr. GREENE 'repeated what he had already stated, that the supply of water rested entirely with the Woods and Forests. CASE OF MR. LEWIN. Mr. F. O'CONNOR asked the Right Hon. Gentle man the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he could give him any information on the subject of Mr. Lewin's case.._ Sir G. GREY said he had received a report from the Police Commissioners, which:represented that the person to whom the Hon. Gentleman referred was arrested with another in the park, on suspicion of picking pockets. The other had been convicted, and was now undergoing his sentence.—(A laugh.) Mr. F. O'CONNOR—Does the Right Hon. Gentle man mean to say that the person I alluded to was tried and convicted?. Sir G. GREY did not know which of these persons the Hon. Gentleman referred to.—(A laugh.) Mr. F. O'CONNOR said he would repeat his question some other evening, as it was no laughing matter to confine a young man in prison for nothing. BUSINESS OF TO-NIGHT. Mr. ROCHE wished to know if Government intended to proceed with the adjourned debate to-night if theimo tion of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Mem ber for Carlow extended beyond ten o'clock? Sir G. GREY replied in the negative; bat if the mo tion terminated before ten o'clock the adjourned debate would be brought on. Mr. ROCHE, under those circumstances, would be glad to know if the Hon. and Learned Member for Youghal intended to bring his important motion on to-night respecting the Raja of Sattara? Mr. C. ANSTEY had certainly promised to give way in favour of the adjourned debate, but it was only on condition that other Hon. Gentlemen who had notices on the paper did the same; and as that con dition had not been fulfilled, he should go on with his motion to-night. After some further observations, the subject dropped. MUSIC LICENCES. Mr. STANFORD asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he had it in contempla tion to bring in a Bill to amend the Act 25 George IL, c. 26, in order to invest a discretionary power in the Middlesex magistrates of granting licences for music se parate from dancing licences ? Sir GEORGE GREY said it was not his intention Do bring in a Bill on the subject, nor had the magistrates expressed any wish that such a Bill should be intro duced. BOARD OF CUSTOMS. Mr. MITCHELL postponed his motion for a Select Committee to inquire into the constitution and manage ment of the Board of Customs, until Friday, the 21st instant. TITHE RENT-CHARGES IN IRELAND. Mr. SADLEIR rose to bring forward the following motion, and his appearance occasioned a rush of Member s out of the House:—" That it is expedient to substitute for the existing mode of varying the amount of tithe rent•charges in Ireland a self-acting system, whereby the amount of all tithe rent-charges in Ireland shall be increased or diminished every year, according to the. average prices of corn, as ascertained by public advetise mcnt, in a manner similar to the existing method of varying tithe rent-charges in England and Wales." The Hon. Member observed that this was a subject of very great importance, not only to the owners, but to the occupiers of land. He was ready to admit that the direct effect of this motion was to ask the House for a distinct expression of its condemnation of the system provided by the Legislature for the alteration of tithe rent-charges in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) It would be sufficient for him to say, with regard to the history of Irish tithes, that the Legislature at :'the period substituted for tithes in that country a compo sition, and then again for that composition perpetnal rent-charges, which were generally called tithe rent charges. There was no concealing the fact that all questions of Irish legislation were determined by the views and opinions of English Members. The nu merical strength of the Irish Members was wholly unavailing as far as regarded any general question of legislation, and hence it other made cir acquaintedc was necessary that when any measure for Ireland umstan e s with connected with w came before the House, the English Members Hon.the passed details i n GentlemanefltBh2e3—t Titheh tnh 1823—the proceeded 4 th CompositionGe at rg e somelAy., c e t 1 length t h h i9e9h was to s oh t. connithit. The whole By this Act the averages were taken from the seven years immediately preceding the year 1821. The nex t Act was passed the year after—the sth George IV. Instead of the tithe rent charge being regulated by t he actual price of corn in the neighbourhood, it was se ttled upon the prices advertised in the Dublin Gazette. By' the Act of 2d and 3d of William IV., c. 95 , the composi tion was to be regulated by the then prices of corn. Other regulations had been established by the 6th sec tion, which he would read. The Hon. Member then proceeded to read the sections of th e Act in order to show the average price of wheat wit hin the county. local l ld and be He also quoted the Ist and 2 d Vic. , pa ssed in 1838, the object of which was to carry this out. These several regulations brought him to the point wh ich he was de sirous to attain, viz., that the rent -charge s hould b In equal in its proportion to the p rice of eorannd the England this point was perfectly understood, Ireland matter was easily settled ,• but in k ne w k n ew that the thing was totally different. E ver y boy price the Gaaette gave no real criterion o f the ' t should be of corn in the district. Now 1 1 district understood that no one in an on the instructions could possibly know or act upon gulation was published in the Dublin Gazette. Th° re - what he had therefore useless and unnecessary. From t hee cno shown it was clearly proved tthe ba t Ga r ould zette. B be ut it knowledge of this price in .. ic awns was answered, that according to the A _ ct to be posted upon the doors of the a n plac ot worship indicating this price. Of what use was such a that in many in notice as this, when it was recoll ec ted stances there were no places of worship on which b e posted? How, t h en, these notices could could the inhabita nts know what the p r i ce of wheat really was? the Hon. Gentleman thou went through a series of calculations in order to show that while the pric e published in the Gazette was 38s. Bd., the real mosey obtained was little more than 30s. Well, then, in order to obtain the al lowance necessary between these two prices. it was necessary to have a certificate properly certified as to the circumstances of the case. This was no small objection ; but there was a greater one. This' certificate wag to be backed by some person who Toni/ arl,l hie ~ f ti the representation which he made. Then there was the evidence of Mr. Ford, by which it appeared that this re gulation was de fact) a perfect humbug.—(Laughter.) Re trusted that the time was not far distant when the tithe rent-charge in Ireland would be made redeemable by legislative enactment, being convinced tbat it would be productive of the best effects. It would relieve many scruples in he Encumbered Eitit,t,a Courts, especially among Quakers, English as well:as Irish. It was argued that if his (Mr. Sadleir's) proposition was adopted soma ministers of the Established Church in Ireland would be left without any income. But the answer to that objection was, that the revenues of that Church were not equally divided among the working clergy. Before the poor-law, however, the working clergy, on 150/. a year, had, in many cases, to keep up large mansions, the income of the parish going to swell the funds of some choral society in Dublin. At all events, if the in come of the working clergy was insufficient, a competence ought to be secured to them. The ecclesiastical anomalies that prevailed in Ireland were a disgrace to the legislation of the United Kingdom; but of all countries under the sun, Ireland was, perhaps, the only one where an acknowledged evil, or wrong, as regarded tithe rent-charge, should be suffered—recovering as it was from a succession of famines, and the landlords being, for the most part, Protestants. He therefore conceived that he was justified in calling on the House to adopt the resolution he should propose. The Hon. Gentleman then moved the resolution. Sir G. GREY said the question was one of great com plexity, involving the construction of many Acts of Parlia ment, and therefore the House could not fairly pledge itself to any course without first having before it the substance of any Bill that might be brought forward with a view to amend the existing law. The Hon. Gentleman had im ported many extraneous topics into his argument, which had no reference to the term of his resolutions, and this was an additional reason why the House should refuse to pledge itself to any particular course without previously having the details of any proposed Bill before it. He was not prepared to say that after an examination of the various Acts bearing on the subject, if it should appear there were no insuperable objections to the assimilation of the tithe-rent charge sys tem in England and Ireland, there would be any disposition to pass over the subject on the part of Government. If the Hon. Gentleman would move for leave to bring in a Bill on the subject, he would say that the subject should have full and fair attention. But again he repeated it would be in convenient to pledge the House to any particular course; such as would be the case if it assented to the motion just submitted. Mr. HAMILTON considered, if the proposition were carried, it would not materially affect the present occupiers of land in Ireland. The landowners would be very un .‘ illing to gain any right that would give them an undue advantage. The Honourable Member entered into details to show that the tithe composition settlement which took place in England and Ireland was not similar; for, in the first instance, the tithe-owner got the full amount of his tithe, deducting the expenses of collection ; whereas the Irish tithe-owner had to submit to a reduction of 25 per cent., which went into the pockets of the landowner. It would be unjust, lie considered, to interfere with the set tlement which had been arrived at, by any new legislation, without taking the different circumstances connected with the composition in Ireland and England into con sideration. He did not deny that improvement could be effected in the existing system, but he thought that a sep tennial ought to be substituted for an annual adjustment of tithe-rent. He hoped his Hon. Friend would withdraw his resolution. Mr. FRENCH would do nothing to promote the objects of his Honourable Friend, and he should be sorry to sup port any measure or motion that would have the effect of perpetuating the mischiefs of the Encumbered Estates Act. He hoped his Hon. Friend would turn the question over in his mind, with the view of founding a Bill on his experience, because he believed there was no indisposition on the part of the Government or the House to legislate on the question. Mr. S. CRAWFORD considered the existing difficulties in taking the averages in order to determine the amount of charge were so great, as practically to render the previous legislation on the subject abortive. He recommended his Hon. Friend to accept the proposition made by his Right Hon. Friend. Mr. H. GRATTAN advocated a septennial in preference to an annual average, as mere equitable to all parties. His Hon. Friend had objected to the operation of the Encumbered Estates Bill He believed that the general opinion was, that the Encumbered Estates Bill had operated as a robbery. — (Ohl) He had read in the papers only the other day, that an estate having a rental of 3801. a year conld only gain a bidding of 1,500/. Mr. SADLEIR would not occupy any further time this ses sion in discussing the question. He had given notice at an early period of the session to move for leave to bring in a Bill on the subject, but he had been remonstrated with by many Hon. Members for attempting to deal with a subject so large that Government only ought to undertake it, and this had induced him to give up his intention and to submit his motion and his reasons in their present form. But since he had received an intimation from Government that a Bill if introduced by him would not meet with Government opposition, and as he hoped that Government was disposed to recognise the principle for which he contended, although the task of introducing a measure of so much importance was usually distasteful and objectionable to a private Member, be would, on the encouragement held out, give his attention to the question, with the view of introducing a measure on the subject at an early period. With that understanding he would withdraw his motion. Sir H. W. BARRON hoped Government would take up the matter, as it was not, or ought not to be, a party question, and Government were, therefore, bound to effect practical good whenever they had an opportunity. The question was not one of such immense difficulty as that it could not be grappled with, even by the present Go vernment. _ RAJA OF SATTARA. Mr. C. ANSTEY was not going to bring old topics before the House, but a new topic, which had arisen within the last six months. A petition had been presented by an Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) in relation to an infant, the lawful heir of the Raja of Sattara; which petition, -though printed and sent to Mr. Greville, had not been duly brought before the Privy Council by Mr. Greville, the Clerk of the Council. The petition was to obtain the settlement of claims not of a political character, but to obtain restitution of piivate pro perty belonging to the late Raja of Sattara, taken posses sion of by the British Government, on the mistaken assump tion that the Raja died without heirs. The infant, the sub ject of the petition, who had been adopted and recognised as the heir of the Raja, sent a petition to the Privy Council, which petition was not presented by Mr. Greville, who in a note informed the petitioner " that the matter of the peti tion being of a political nature, did not come within the jurisdiction of her Majesty's Privy Council." This proceed ing of Mr. Greville was in the nature of a denial of justice, and the conduct of Mr. Greville called for the consideration of the House ; and with the view of bringing the matter un der the notice of Parliament he should move a resolution to the effect " that the matters of complaint set forth in the pe tition of the infant Raja deserved the serious consideration of that House." He contended that the petition contained nothing at all relating to political questions, but referred solely to matters of private and pecuniary interest. But, assuming that the petition did relate to political matters, it would be found, on reference to the Act of Parliament, that it was competent to her Majesty's Privy Council to enter tain petitions which had relation to political matters. As he could not understand the course taken by the Clerk of the Privy Council, or believe that Lord Lansdowne was aware of the letter written by Mr. Greville, he would move to call attention to the alleged obstruction offered to the claims of the infant Raja of Sattara i❑ the denial of a hear ing before the Court of Privy Council, complained of in the petition to this House of the next friend of the said infant, presented on the 14th inst.; and to move a resolution on the subject. The motion not having been seconded fell to the ground. ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES BILL. . _ - ----- - ----- -- - The order of the day for the adjourned "debate having been read, Mr. BLEWITT wished to make one or two observations on this most impolitic measure. Ile regrette d that onthis question the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had avowed feelings and opinions utterly inconsistent with the s with great liberal tenor of his previous career. sorrow that be had witnessed the Noble Lolrtd was ceed to forward on this question, and, in the sober garb of woe . , pro rake up all the crimes imputed to PsPacY i n the early times of our history. He for One wocuelrdemnoliebse praactpisaerdtybt; brand as mummeries any religio o us y Aftera ny bastic tone of Dr. Wise man'shisfellow-ye. The b manifesto had not in the I u a r n b v e i s d i t e l d i m 1; reading it he slept as soundly purgatorial penance or inquisitorial apprehensions of either purga alit any insult was intended ma b as ef t or d e i,at torture. He could not believe to'` v the Constitution, by the to the Queen, or any ilritioaur-egehpta_not to be forgotten that the late act of the Pope. - 1 . church, incomplete unless Romish Church was a ., :i v rit t oi • h ' res pect to our own Church, he it had a hierarchy. had been reading the other day found in a work which he ecgriri!son of Sierra Leone, that episcopal by the chaplain of t that colony; that consequently jurisdiction did not . 15 the churches and churchyards were at present unconse srtyatieedr t that spiritualwants of the cole crated. The author was absolutely necess so with regard to a f ew nists. If that were s fora portion of our colonists, was it not equally necessarynail lion souls? Th _community num bering nearly clear. , The Hon. Member . such a cas e was . work in i n his on Church and State, affirmed sits of Oxford, clan conscientiously believing his religion that a Mahonae , naturally desire . be from God, would . its extension, and would be Jus • tified in usi ng all proper and legitimate means for that end. W as the sincere Catholic to be deni e t th e sam e r ight? He would ask any candid person to place himself in the po sition of the Pope, and then say whether circumstances did not justify him in the step he had taken. ' Let such a person believe his religion to be from God - let him be told that m any had been converted, and that many more were on the point of conversion—let him be informed of the many courte sies paid to Roman Catholic bishops in Ireland—let him read in ~ Hansard" the ma n y speeches in favor of Roman Catholics by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government—let him con sider all these things, and then say whether circmstances did not relieve the Pope from imputations of intending insult and injury when he appointed bishops in this country. He did not mean to say that the Pope could appoint bishops entitled to sit in the House of Peers with temporal rights attached to their bishoprics. The bishops whom the Pope had ap pointed claimed none of these things, yet the Noble Lord maintained that their appointment was an insult to the Queen and an aggression on the independence of the nation. He was as loyal as any other subject of her Majesty; but he did not in this instance feel himself called on to join in pass ing a law against imaginary affronts and problematical mis chief.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for the city of Oxford had said a great deal about the introduction of the canon law, but he was of the opini ,, n expressed by Sir M. Hale, that the strength of the canon law in this kingdom could only exist either by consent of the Parliament, or in some particular cases by immemorial usage, and that it would no more be binding here than our law would in Italy. If the present Bill were passed it would certainly be evaded. An attempt was made in 1748 to force the Scotch Highlanders to wear breeches, but they evaded the law by going clad as before, and carrying the breeches over their shoulders. — (A laugh.) Some equally subtle evasion would be found to de feat the object of this Bill, and as it would only "create irr tation and annoyance, he readily supported the motion that it be read a second time that day six months. Sir R. LOPES said that but for the very strong speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for Plymouth against the Bill he should not perhaps have troubled the House with any observations on this occasion. But living in the immediate neighbourhood of the town represented by the lion. and Learned Gentleman, and knowing the almost unanimous feeling of the inhabitants of that town, he felt called upon to say that the sentiments which had been expressed by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman were totally at variance with these of the hulk, if not with those of the whole of the con stitnency, and the great mass of the populatlon.-4Hea r.) the more especially as the Pope had included the principal towns of Devon in one of his newly-created bishoprics,. with" out having taken the slightest trouble to ascertain whether he had any locus standi in the matter. The establishment of any such ecclesiastical arrangements by a foreign pow e r was not for an instant to be compared with ecclesiastics arrangements made within our own borders by communities who adhered to no foreign power. If Ro man s'atholics would disconnect themselves from Rom e ' and own no other foreign supremacy, there would tie an The to the contest, and no legislation would be necessary. The religious arguments of the Hon. and Learned Member for Plymouth r had been so promptly disposed of by the Hon. and I,eerne Member for the city of Oxford , 'that he sh ould not now octant s! them. As a representative of one of th e most imp oste counties of England, he must state on the pelt of the inba-s bitants —and more especially on behalf of the inhabitants of Plymouth—that so far from no wishing legislation ono his question, they were utterly disapp inted at t h e inadecls e Y of the measure brought forward by the G overn ment. ( 11c8r ,i hear.) The first declaration of the Noble Lord at the hea of the Government, and his statement in introducing the Bill, had given much satisfaction. H e believed that pla oble Lord was sincer, and that he would have propos ea! e very different measure if he had been a ll o wed to have his ovr w n . way in the matter.—(Hear.) Other legislation mised if the present Bill should be found ineffectual best motto was principiis obsta. The language 0f the Pope Do. proved the unalterable and domineering principle o,c.e j ' mish Church, which required implicit obedience to lts,,, su premacy. The Noble Lord seemed to think that the nou s t - '2, ; vi b a i s it P t h e would not be satisfied with the Bill as atfirst proposed. or then could the Noble Lord imagine that they would be were fled with it now, that the more stringent enactments ,ta, omitted from it? He should vote for this econd read as l .7 g, but with a hope that the more salutary paof the me ma would be restored in Committee. Mr. WALTER said he had a similar excuse for for the himself as the Hon. Member who had just sat down, made __se name of the town which he represented had been ; se of by the Pope to designate one of the Papal bishoprics.eee _dsato rose for the purpose of protesting against what h . 01 me the tlOa 011 be an act of unwarranted aggression and usurps_ n because presenting part of the Pope. He called it an act of ressi!uman Cs. it violated the provisions of the Act by whic h and a n ee s of tolics were admitted to seats in that House, ana as s . ,__ . 5 ,,,„, usurpation because under no circumstances was the justified in annexing territorial titles to •le the course of • the office he might create in this country. debate the clause to which referenceln had d s it l dozen made, in the Act of 1829, had been mistlnc -c t it anyperson times. In that clause it was stipulated .tha should assume or other than the persons authorised by law s • n England or ari been so often. use any title of archbishop, bishop, or den, b i e liable to a Ireland, he should for every such hat the clause penalty of 1001. He had heard it contended t. a read ce" - referred only to existing dioceses; bat havihgad not found folly not only the Act, but he debate, he _ . y po i the word " existing" or any equivalent word 1 Was that a of the discussion, or of the Act. The maxim a _,, .. he offence penal clause ought to be interpreted strictly ;83D1,"'Wes The found no reference in the clause to particular se.o,n.sw entitled to infer that it had a general sign Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon Act, and the part he had taken in the Charitable Bequests a _ diss had asked what was the meaning of " officiating 1 ; eons trict," but having a diocese? or " superintend ot her in. gregation," but being a parish priest? In ahat-he de stance, in which the Right lion, Baronet said t of murred to the right of archbishops or bishopliti°;:he ihilacdafireferred to Romish Church claiming titles from certain I M e mber vas ced. The speech of the Honourable and Learned that a supplied the best answer to what he hadrieecsaously ad for Plymouth had been referred to, and be admitted an more able speech on that side of the question it T on had sible to imagine. The Hon. and Learned pit time asked whether the first bishops of the Church, ill, Ll a king of the early Roman Emperors, invaded any s ight Da' unstion the titles which they enjoyed? But that as ked, W as might be met by another. What, it mig ht be I s , Chris' the notion which the first Roman Emperor s had 0 __ seor e tian bishop? The only notion whic h the early -am' mt able, could have of a bishop must have been as of a pe cr ' ise oc s, w hose forlorn being—the leader of a perhaps despised s ersecu ted. only claim to distinction was a priority of being, bishop had ti He contended that in those early ages the tle ol , it mi ght no politi cal gnificance whatever. Vey different a _ whic h be after thereognition of Christianity by the St te ,' then would find itself called on to exercise considerauilteioebonoi troll over these bishops. Immediately after th e reeegnde itself Christianity by the State the influence of the laity m¢ de felt, and from that time to the present the laity, ter tv• oice by the civil power, had always exercised a concurrent, He with that of the Church in the appointment of bishops. d to take believed that if the measure of the Pope was allowe- I effectdo the dominions of the Queen would be the on y, _.. minions in the world in which the full , development l t . "l clesiastical functions was allowed vithout the by the laity.— (Hear, hear.) His quarrel with the pe w.r__ as not for his claim of spiritual authority, but for his w g e rence with the territorial dominion of the Crow n ' the objected to the form which was used on that occasion at most intolerable expression of spiritual dominion and 4 o r gance possible. It was true forms were but the shadows , realities, but although this country might be in no danger o• least Ckitore. receiving any injury at the hands of Rome, still it was bunt! to •protest against any extension of the powe r Of that nt Church whieh did not want intentions, at least , to p rot l r d its encroachments. He did not agree with an Hon. a" .hat Learned Member who had already addressed the Houses '- the Church of Rome or its members should be allowed tc decide for themselves that very difficult and delicate o °9 ' tion of what constituted the difference between ci vil and reit gious affairs.—(Hear.) If they were allowed to decide Who, were the limits of spiritual jurisdiction, and the nature °` territorial titles, the Romish Church should be permitted tc, decide also on matters of a mixed spiritual and tempers! character. He considered that the State owed to the profea - _, sors of all religions protection from the abuse of the autho rit y s of their superiors. —( Hear.) The Hon. Member for Sheffield said it was only the submission of one man's mind to Or ther, and asked what business was that of any one else's' Now he (Mr. Walter) thought that was neither a humane or a just view of the question. He thought we had no right W refuse people the consolation of spiritual advice for the es' ercise of their temporal duties.—(Hear, hear.) In In _ s e''' countries abroad the State exercised a spiritual to ng over the Roman Catholic Church. In Austria, for exansple: no sentence of excommunication could be carried into oc e : against any person unless the State was satisfied that the offence committed was merely of a spiritual alas" racter. The Honourable Member here referre d to, an read, a couple of long extracts from a work by Dr. Twists 00 the nature of the appointment of bishops, which the wri yi te r con tended was a temporal act and not a spiritual one. 01 could not forget the step which the Noble Lord at the bee of the Government had taken in respect of the present ag' gression, nor the agitation which that step had given rise tes That agitation would open the eyes of the Roman Ca holler in a way in which they had not been hitherto open,ed**. (Hear) —to an important fact, namely, the deep-rooted Kr testantism of this country. - (Hear.) It might be practicabr, true that the Pope might believe, and did believes tha t t country was on the eve of a great Catholic mOvementl (Hear.) Even amongst Roman Catholic's possessing Plei:i information and knowledge of the world, 'there had preveLie a great mistake with respect to the re li g ious feeling of 1 1 0 country. He had had the observation made by Rom Catholics to himself that the acts of a few bewildered clergr men and weak-minded laymen had been mistaken for st D r- 4 liberate intention, on the part of the Protestant him?Yes's'n England, to abandon that strong position it had 11 t i l e ; maintained with regard to the Church of Rome hear.) The agitation upon that question would eyes to the great mistake they had made, and tea a l ' re , Pope to be more cautious in future in trusting the "P 0 ( sentations of those who brought him intelligencteele the condition of this country. It would also out the Roman Catholics to be more careful in carrYing e their system of proselytising throughout the countrY, __ o pea c. tb . e h ir e system which he thought was a calamity to be avoided, Doei cause of its evil consequences and results. If the peoPi c s , this country were once possessed of the idea that there es't isted any danger that an unmarried Roman Catholic eties, would be set up side by side with their own parody clergy men—if they thought there was an y danger that thl death -beds of their fellow -countrymen would be intercept ed by such a person -- if there was any danger of confessioa being generally introduced, or of their daughters being ' er__. d uc ed into convents—if the p eo p le of En gland , in fine, w ee' not under the impressi on that the law would protect tiler, in such cases, they would be inclined t o take t he law in their own hands .—(Hear, hear. ) The Hon. M ember here briefly referred to the operation of the measure with respec! to Ireland, but in so indistinct a tone that we could Dm' c l ear ly catch his words. He then went on to say that sc long as the Protestant constitution in Church and State coil: filmed in this empire, so long should he resist every attealPt his memorable letter, might have pro d uc ed a nn Acir , e . at encroachment upon it. , Although the Noble Lord ft % more worthy of the expectations raised by it , be s ' ess t Walter) would support the present Bill in the hope t r the objects it had in view might be further And b t in e carried out on a future occasion when it wen t into Co ' mittee.—(Hear.) .' - ss y. ', s i n g the Mr. ANSTEY said a reason allegeefee su present Bill was that it would induce every Man C 54 ,4,,, t such however small, in Ireland, to leave that cOnntii. who-1."- sup' PPr,,s7pertir a sentiment should have been received by those tbat it , ported the Hon. Member was not astonishing, s . e , It should not have been repudiated by other* the vats, could not but have an exasperating effect -o s' and for his part he protested against such sit nisters of the he Cronindd not think were shared in by the as' lf oppose them . If he thought so he would not on measure they upon the present, but upon every other papa t and most annoy:- might introduce. It was one of the greates t Bill that it ing misfortunes of discussions upon the Presento recriminates it imposed upon its opponents the temptation snet!ments, which ainst them' by retorting with effect the accusations brought Isather Eus selves on its supporters. If one party had their _ __, w i t h tace, the others had their vicars of Wrexhill. sNew_„„tie. respect to the pr sent agitation, he found that evep a V" -,, se ctioll man came forward, in the name of his own particu all suss of the Church, to protect himself and party from lead on 00 picion in the matter, by being the first to lead on _ewe, people of this country , in the chase of the conircon t!...tit the Church of Rome, in the hope that the houndes_tm?o:ght follow carrion and not see the real g ame. And. h ; s ,si the Hon. Members for Oxford and Cambridge edaceil— s, ueoplee themselves if they supposed that in directing, from the minds to that matter they misled the public mind Iro n abuses said to exist in the Church to which they n a former , The Hon. Member for Oxford city had show,c l ; h e was speech of his—not his late one—by what flew" Church. The animated with respect to the Roman Catholic een the Hon. Member would place in the hands O bishopsin this power exercised by the Pope of appointing lace po wer country and in the colonies, and would Place belonged. without the interference of Parliament. catholi c that if the Pope attempted to regulate the Roman . the religion, not only in England alone, but in any pqt of Ile Queen's dominions, he violated the Queen's prerogative . _,..„,. (Mr. Anstey) denied that. Everybody knew that th (Jr:, h ch 01 -D'a , ecclesiastic .1 law was strictly local. The C ur so He also contended land was the Church of this realm only. The gem of Catholic Church, every dissenting church, every fo r d e to Christianity, every form of religious belief not oppos ato the laws of God and nature, enjoyed as sound a 8 l e ad in her Majesty's foreign dominions as the Church of Rn s g , ebe itself; and the Papal bull and the letters patent or _ it , Crown rested there upon the same foundation, bindingoudy. upon the consciences of men as they felt impelled to oDe ence or otherwise. The Hon. Member for Oxford said ther were Roman Catholics who protested against the Pt 6_7:: 0 the Ho n . Member pru aggression of the Pope ; but it was not because they we' s. ready to accept the tyranny whieh es _, O posed. The 'Sill before them.consisted of two claus ' , lw o in ti the other in fiduro. He could not agree I.° o f pra s e a , o f Scot" Bill which was to legislate only on the barren question titles. Did not the episcopal titles of the Church ~,,ny land afford as much reason as the Church of Ireland ? 0 should there be an exception at all ? If there waseto,,,b,,e. a n exemption, lie thought it was with Ireland thre,l'','d nister ougt to begin. The cases of two bishoprics in I r_ u se had been alluded to, those of Rosa and Galway, but in tro!. case the Pope bad only interfered so far as to sanction 0 ,a,! m o ' had been already done in Ireland. With respect to lt, s course taken in the present matter in England, he confess' s ; lie did not approve of it.—(Hear.) He thought it Wf,' w rong for the Pope to have taken the initiative before tu