The Sun. — London, England, 1851-03-15 00:00:00

'ey said :on- ti :0 to gt* Lid on a of sp ss id of or es o- fratt et r i t finr at i had been un d u l y i n fl uence d on th e su bj ec t b y 111 as Y b y s yi machinery-by violent letters-(Laughter)-as po ll th. , _ o Violent speeches ; and he could not close his eyes tth li t ;e in treet of the Noble Lord's (J. Russell) letter of the Ordv,ber ,,, • RUSSELL-The 4th. ItEIiZOGLDS said that brought it closer to the anni ii.unpowder plot.- (Hear.) It was a well lareki production as far as Guy Fawkes was concerned .. eter)--and it had its result.-(Hear.) The Bishop of ! e eath' o s i ts° i , had written a most offensive letter as regarded Ni ai „_ es of this country, in the preceding October, tlt.tetellgAetrheewsaams,e time moderation to his hearers.- however, another letter, written in No ilelit ° 814 ,7 which recently came to light the letter of the !, 0 a o `Z . ll . aronet the Member for Ripon, which would ifi 1, 10 ,, to Posterity side by sid e w ith that of w took " Lord, and make the public exclaim, t ti 418 0 ss this picture and on this." There )1114ratt vt. B Ito ,_'•ue speech of the same statesman to b etw tha of the Noble Lord, and the t wo-ld would \ 1 1 ,4 bad a that them. But it was gratifying to find thie Bill ila, N .,. ( ne as ever was protested for non-payment - had tttz:,?..,.feated by the Right Hon Baronet, as well as by 141411471nced statesman the Eat]. of Aberdeen, and found d t 4lfer e e i e l •e ' s arY• The public of this country were told that ,N I , was in d anger , b u t th ese s i ncere P ro t es t an t s un , t ei am ' e lm , He would refer to the whole matter in dis lt/tetati i, Ths _eak, 'what it was? The Noble Lord had said it 1, ieLeutt, but to make it an insult the men ought to have Oh , thing personal. Could any man suppose the 'l e tende d to ' g Noble Lori ea t tha insult the Queen? The could k i ; 1 1 ap em . ts nor could any reasonable man. An insult qteb tiit .rlal affair which subjected the insulter to p r• t le etv fletnent. Formerly insults were qu'e ly settled jliilofthl..X,,Park, but this insult was to be settled by the re ii.e,_stith'olit,lnancipation Act. He had spent ten years ( f his eig th e 'iltermission in assisting a great Irishman to 0 f or :Ineation of emancipation And when t e was strug- Vere te ln ancipation it was suggestol as A condition that Op t isen should Ave a veto in the nominati n of th it tb,hie condition was rejected with scorn, and the 4 t holics h a d t o wait many years before they got the i ,cleg t4 r e nlanciaation been offered on the disgraceful r•ill i elli m , ll , l g conditi, na contained in the Noble Lorct's Bill it t,.,.01i,rt-roeertunivers shy rejected. And yet, because Roman CtNg t i gions professors desired t • carry out their religion c r A ,,, 0 their settlel forms, they were called insol nt e1 34 1; 0 It was said that the nomination of Roman Ca they 1 0 ) ,t 1 „was an invasion of the Queen's prerogative. It:Ile i t `lldrell to argue in that He contended Dte.o.4elliation of bishops by the Pope did not invade s ki th e ' 6at ive, and did not confer any territorial power. 1 4 'til % 4 ° 01 2 made a bishop it thesewa the baron that con ttkre ofterritorial power. Had ope's bull y conferred s. i t it ele nt + t erritory on Cardinal Wiseman? It had not wired enough to "sod a lark."-(Laughter.) That explanation. It meant he had not land ke it t t l ec t i es Yer a lark's remains.-(Laughter.) It gave e s , iftiesiastical dues. if the bull had run thus-but he i ) reael bi Ze was any bull at all-" I appoint A. B. to kt 4, els, i i i;', L i nal jurisdiction over the Roman Catholics of ei t `tlis te there would be no objection to that-neither koaely to be any objection to the bull as it was worded, sieleiheontenaplated spiritual objects. The Roman Ca liejlelist3 had presented an address to her Majesty, but ai l 'ialstZed their names without their titles, and so they kt dose by law. It was, however, said that what had k 1 , 4 1 4 1 .,g the 'Pope and the bishops was an " inso tftt.ol You If the whole English vocabulary were V t , f1; 41 could not find stronger terms of insult (.f „`le b i .. h e Roman Catholic religion, the Roman 44 '411 - u°Ps, and the 10,000,000 of Roman Catho- N1:4 1 / . 1 y ere to be found in the replies of the Pro '''ae of I. ° Ps and clergy to the addresses on the 1 !N t h 1 .„" 13 ,a 1 aggression. He would read a few extracts I. tett replies of the Anglican bishops to illustrate his it, ' • • ofr The Bishop of London, in his reply, says :- etk ,:eads and disgusts the understanding. It makes aty'lls e ZLworzliip the creature with the worship due only Oati l fh e ir ." In another place he speaks of " the auda !1111411, P r etensions of the Church of Rome-the base in ,kl? ,ath ee the Church of Rome." (Here he would ask, in 'e t I VS, 1 . 8, of what had the Church of Rome to be grate- Ti'lf tie it for taking away all her temporalities in the ,elk l eht4 r ,Y VIII., which now amounted to 10,400,0001. ?) ;aih, e ktii 4 , l ',° Rome was to peril our salvation. The Ro :fAstatC„ bad an unchanging character of evil." This Vele4 s rePly of the Bishop of Bath and Wells. From ? 11 (1s1 th e °P of York he found that Rome was always Ai Kit e ;,.. s eaPtivity of the world, and to bring all nations kfi 'at m ,'" bondage. From the Bishop of Gloucester :4,44ael;il)tinn was all but blasphemous, and that Popery ;qoi, , Of - ar thing. The Bishop of Oxford said that the At I ,,ild t l ii t°llll 3 roars when necessary, bat uses the meekest ' 4 4 ,41 11 4 N, blandishments when it . suits her purpose; , L i i tliii Was a subtile, determined, and unclean ' 4 4' W - c•ngland was defiled by her pollutions. .The 1 1 ) ; '' k id Chichester said the Church of Rome was into ltistit sae assumed a baseless and unscriptural autho it4S„ la.,.,‘°ey were vain assumptions. The Bishop of ~FtOts t, ""other place, called Rome corrupt, and spoke of A t 4 o ,., sf Popery." The Bishop of Rochester, that . vft IVened the minds of the people by its false doc k\ Th e ,!.Biahsp of London spoke of the power of dark op of Hereford spoke of the great apostacy of 4 4 S b T h jj'sh " t e * ,., e °, With regard to the discipline of the Church of Nl' i t ," ll ,d ask the House to hear the fathers of the Pro- NS o seetf, e .u. The Bishop of London spoke of its " errors ~,,,,,,°llB dogmas, alike opposed to Scripture and 'km,: 89erstitions long ago exploded (he doubted Ver e ',on legends displaying the grossest ignorance." 1 1 , 1 _44,,Le1e• of the elegant extracts. The Bishop of kit i a 6 i l l o h i i: 3 ? e r ra thj e "slouch corrti o o f n Rom f is t h he cog o ugt is io h ns e - h corruptions-of ISN I P , b q Oxford spoke p with " horror of the doctrines of 14(N, 44. ;q4 lar:lad, queried that.- (Laughter.) The Bishop of 1 Of i" 3 spoke of pestilent errors of Rome. The IN i tPon,. that Popery contained the delusions of S t k tty ,. 'th e I. s 'e Bishop of Oxford, the deed corruptions cf e, 'A o frneo of Manchester (we understood) . spoke of I N • Th , ozpish doctrines, and Papal superstition and tl, of t/t 4 4 ) Bishop of Gloucester spoke of the rev; king f il le h te il , o ` l l ?alar confession, and the monstrous supe!sti -0,,111.0, 0 ,, stantiation. The Bishop of . Oxford . described t „Vtis e ' Rome as corrupt in doctrine and idolatrous LiNtay was Then the establishment of a Catholic i' Lit „ae Scolded in a similar manner. One bishop N 110 ,41 a daring aggression "-that was the Bishop O t AlptjY - -" an indecent aggression," Oxford - 'IL I ' o 4 „ °os aggression," -York-" unparalleled and most k,,k l l,l**gression," London. He had 50 other extracts St l e ti el t i er3 to addresses, but he had produced enough, , L sek aot trouble the House further with them. He 01• Olerely to ask the House at which side was the 1. Of 1.,, . ii ad,:ll. l . eoldipg.-(ll . ear.) If they went to Billingsgate ,114 . 11 1 e, in Dublin, no language of fishwomen there o • ~ th:, the language used by the heads of the Church ~.k ., ‘ lsq- k i t fellow-Christians. The language here stated 'i'll, 4? Ministers of the Gospel, who were told by their 'it,e o return good for evil,"-to " do good to those tl tehs 'end to pray for:those who persecuted" and calum- I L vs •` 1 ,.• Had they acted up to their creed? They had 7:11(,,,ead poured this abuse on men who did not wish , 1 7, do them a particle of harm.-(Hear.) The whole . r ait• - dispute was this-that Cardinal Wiseman had ‘‘f4t 1(1 he t ,e te .vrould govern a county. This was not as %„ii...tL•rritorial jurisdiction. Cardinal Wiseman had 4 It. 14 Noble Lord (Lord Arunde) had denied it-he 11Li, ri ltd ltn ,,d yet there were rogues who :circulated the 1 ; 114 thelt°°ls who believed it.-(Hear, hear.) It had tk i. fo itm the Noble Lord's Bill had been emasculated ; 4 tlu.„ t hat one of the clauses went even beyond tstlet tune of the Emancipation Act. Further, he ti t , Na i l there was no necessity for extending the , ii ,,fis , t ,..'' Ile should be sorry that any Member should tl l listitee him of using insulting or threatening ex goaseas a Roman Catholic and an Irishman he de * Il e and the Government to carry out the Bill in lIZI 1 (1 * !; 1 1 . Ilight carry it out in England ; but the betake common cause with the English Roman tit: ,c,, 1 f0 they were weak, and because both were - n t. Ki te s. R h eta tis -, one part of the oman Catholic body and tit t i' to Lge whole body. It was said at first that Ire rtltlltits 4 ° lnitted. Had it been so he should have 11,,.' e at enernment with cowardice and bullying. But ) Th h at i e,g, attacked both English and Irish Roman i ' 4 - ' us sink swim th - (Hear lati tt bad Y would or together.-(Hear, er. , i tl, l s tici . great confidence in the Right Hon. Member i al t Zail l . th ln the Duke of Wellington, neither of whom 1 4 titii h NIA 4 great compact of 1829 to be violated. He t o ee L'effa of ille in Lord Stanley, since he had said that ,tt2'eo ltw e country ought not to be allowed to stand ;'"ltilttl' a , I t' °f this question. Up till November last no ea, t'his t anie was more unpopular than that of Lord ~,s p h,r n ts, ztl °,,,e and illiberality were considered as syno t'N'saits r , -out since then Lord Stanley aud the Noble ,4tsd i•-•tord J.Russell) had changed places.-(Hear.) 31 h 'e t 01 .",° 1 3, for he had for twenty years considered Kell , ` 4. (Lord John Russell) as the head of the i;raq l es t ehd looking at the Noble Lord as an enlight is,at d orated Whig he had enlisted under his banners l i lt ) l • ,`,alti°„ v t he'had changed his position.-(Laughter.) Ilt, t 'le toZNoble Lord who had changed his position. tit 4i e tt i,,;,‘l was now at the head -of the bigots. There k leshr,lsr, uneducated bigot in England that did not ;,m e at agape Noble Lord. He was preferring a bill of Oh m he rlast the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord had ,zy Qi th eauld attack the temporalities of the Irish Es is Alita ti ' r ,eh-but where was the Noble Lord's appro- V ) , l 4rath: i f Whilst the Noble Lord sat on that bench the eq5C bee r)• and Liberals thought they had a guarantee k h ° tie 4 3 - ',, r ,, t 'es were not to be infringed. They thought 54' 1 tl `ftl ia . ',W,ould have returned to his liberality, and ke l l s ,,,et is he Roman Catholics ought not to be called t p lt. tc,.. r lefite to a small Protestant Church. But the *tl: 4 l fo o rroe down and told them he would manacle JO te _ and fetter their religious freedom. This, then, t ,1 4 14Nel tt ,"ard for their patience and loyalty. The Noble ,tll tl teiZeY must submit to the affront in • his Bill. He ?Oei l s 4: ' 4! tu nl al o"r Wteeinwp°onral" Po l w t e w r asinstahidesethePope had realms. The ;ode flL° temporal power, and ought not to have any, it k i ,tli k 441 spiritual wished it d *11) e t his vet power. He 'e li tat ts te oti . s. , _ e the other evening in support of Mr. ftl'Orti ti rl.,wae to . be construed, not as a vote on ,04, s eee4 the in was a vote of mita , tih _?Lice in the Minister. He was prepared to re 'altt,s;asie7a vo tes.-(Hear.) If he did not vote anew d -141`f 4; 4 tl ltt i,o he dared not show his face in Ireland. He e . ,),*o,,Leir,l3ler Parliaments had withheld supplies be ftqk t ilts 1 0 " 11 1 ° not entrust the money with the then Mi ka4 to t 11, g as the Algerine and insulting measure 'it tat v ote M an Catholics was on the table he was pre- Va t ", h!fgainst the Ministry who could make such an tS'lreill'aeoP.erdonable assault on the religion of his fel -141,1% 4etra ce ., He could promise the Ministers this-un t,, ,(I R , iss ' , their steps, adopted civil and religious Aer e ver ned, not merely garrisoned, Ireland, they i4kit,ota.a.'ave Roman Catholic votes nor Liberal Pro- V l lloe aViear.) It had been asserted he did not !N e Ni t koti o - to rd ing to the merits of the question (Mr. tt. y k li era) Mille he saw no merits at all in the question. N it ko v t lfe eti-le had only voted to show he had no con -0441, e i t , 2nistry. He had learned this recently, that e Nvolitics was only a move for office. He be tit at i , 4 o ce ti ° o !ectioni s t s were anxious to get into office. t 'l) t tli,j / ger a i S ti a small position-the position of illus- Je i n to ir n tri l n that House ; but by keeping together and 1 ), tb il ld ote s t hey had it in their power to say which ha t:refo„ l IPY the Treasury benches. - (Hear.) He t 6 ~,aft „te I,,,riaake a n offer. lie was in the market. 1 7 ltiat 71ght on these terms. He would push one V, ° llla -u ° ol l, and place another on that beach, tt k 1, Enna first to abandon the Ministerial 15,.. and then N 1 fb,. • 3 4 .4 Th; ,,men to bring in a Bill to prevent the IV Ike s ot - I - i rons from dying in the workhouses.- 'S 1 4 4 ,,t0p t o ;,,?nler support them on the condition that ;le t i l e r ep v , la re . the system under which 270 paupers had klsttiot the One week-that they introduced mea- N it,, re e only interest now left in Ireland,.the i„,hrti o that : l il t, which now suffered from their one-B+d '!l,' l lt,t, 11 of the should legislate for Ireland as an m qttkitl ohj t ue empire; and for the purpose of making h i k,,,,ad h er of their oppression, but what God and na s kiret ati , for, the right arm, and not the drag-chain, p l t il tl ?Ils th m ighty empire.-(Hear.) No man was ti? - Itw o 'n he to draw close the bonds of connexion I tL :tide o f e t c ' h nntries. He had occasionally preached on s" e taxitti se Channel, not religious, but political 'te 4 ,,, b s n which had always been to draw cic,ber 4 414 t ( ) ) 11u of the two countries, so that Ireland 1 ' Industry of England, might profit by her prosperity, and be—what unfortunately she was not--a nation of freemen, enjoying the comforts and necessaries of life, instead of what she was—a degraded community of paupers.—(Hear, hear.) He would not say that the present race of Englishmen had reduced her to that state, but their ancestors had by their legislation marred her advancement. It was now their duty to retrace their steps, and to adopt a wiser and wore humane course. Speaking as a Roman Catholic, ho looked upon the present Bill as an open and wanton insult to his country.—(Hear.) At the same time, he begged to be understood as not speaking in a sectarian spirit. The population of the United Kingdom numbered about 30,000,000. Of that number a third were Roman Ca tholics; another third were Episcopal Protestants, and the remaining third was composed of all other sects. They were therefore a mixed community of Christians, which name, if they deserved, they ought at once to renounce this anti- Christian Bill, which was far more calculated to make them hate than love one another, and ;which, if persisted in, wou:d make them the laughing-stock of the world.—(Cheers.) Sir B. HALL wished to offer a very few observations on the subject, as it was his intention to give a decided vote in favour of the second reading of the Bill.—(Cheers.) The Honourable Member who had just spoken had told the House that he and those who usually acted with him were a marketable commodity, and were ready on the present occasion to dispose of themselves to either the one party or the other who should reject this measure.--(Hear, hear.) He thought it would be well if, before attempting to pur • chase the Honourable Gentleman and his friends, any party on that side or the other should first inquire the value which the Honourable Gentleman and his friends put on themselves, and then consider whether they were worth the price. —(A laugh.) If they looked to the conduct of these Hon. Gentleman, voting as they had done, first on one side and then on the other—if they watched their proceedings, he would say since 1832, about which time they first ap peared in the House, they would find that protesting against the Government, and declaring against the coercion Acts of that Government, they had. nevertheless, given that Go vernment their support.—(Hear.) He believed that they would again be ready to make an outcry, and be again found supporting the Government against whom they raised it. He had been much pleased with the admirable and tempe rate tone of the speech of the Noble Lord who moved the amendment, that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. The Noble Lord had stated that from 1598 down to the present time no demand had been made by the Roman Catholics of this country for a hierarchy, and that it had been considered unnecessary by the Pope.— (Hear.) If that were so, where was the necessity now, in 1850, of the Pope coming forward and taking a step which very properly had been called an aggression on the Crown of this country ? (Hear, hear.) He was unable to see any necessity for the appointment of these bishops. The vicars apostolic had sufficed for the wants of the Roman Catholic inhabitants of this country, and there was no occasion for the late proceedings, except for the pu•pese of giving power to Roman Catholic bishops. Had he been a member of the Romish Church he should have protested against the as sumption of any such powers.—(Hear, hear.) They all knew that they had protested against the attempt of one of the prelates of their own Church to introduce a Bill which would have increased the powers of the episcopal body, and that they had defeated that attempt.—(Hear.) It had been said that the feeling of the country was not opposed to the late aggression of the Pope. After the manifestation which had taken place nothing could be more absurd or more fatal than to indulge in such a supposition. He was surprised that any one dared to make such an assertion after the re turns moved for by the Hon. Member for Warwickshire had b en laid en the table. It appeared from those returns that every county in England, with the extraordinary exception of Kent—the seat of the archiepiscopate—had held meetings on the subject—that hundreds of thousands had met together for the purpose of testifying against the assumption of these ecclesiastical titles, and that no less than 1,604,000 persons had signed the addresses presented to her Majesty on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) It might be said that those ad dresses had come from the clergy and from the rural districts, where no great liberality of sentiment existed.—( Hear, hear.) That was not the case. He had the honour to represent a portion of this metropolis remarkable for the liberal opinions of its inhabitants—St. Pancras. In that parish there were 18,500 householders, and he had presented a petition signed by 14,363 of those householders, praying the House to take measures for the purpose of marking their indignation at such aggression, and for effectually checking it.—(Hear.) An appeal had been made in this question to religious liberty. —(Hear, hear.) It was to prostitute the phrase so to use it. —(Hear.) They were now endeavouring to legislate for re ligious liberty, and against religious domination.—(Cheers.) Roman Catholic Members had talked as if their religion was so excessively tolerant. He believed it was the Hoa. Member for Mayo who said that if he ware asked why there was greater religious freedom in Great Britain than Rome, he would answer that it was because England was England. But why did not the Hon. Gentleman reverse the proposition and strengthen the argument by saying that it was because Rome was Rome.—(Hear.) Because the Roman Church had ever been and still was intolerant. (No, no.) If the Hon. Gentleman had ever been at Rome, he would have known that Protestants were not allowed to worship God within the walls. No one surely could:have the presumption to deny that. Was the Hon. Gentleman aware that his Protestant fellow-subjects who died at Rome were buried in a remote corner of the city—that no prayer was allowed to be said over their body—that no monument could be erected to a father or child without the sanction of the Propaganda, or if allowed, that no inscription c.uld be put on without the sanction of that society? Sir W. BARRON—That is not true. I have erected one myself to a friend. Sir B. HALL - The Hon. Baronet might contradict him, but he must excuse him if he did not stand corrected by him. —(A laugh.) He could tell the Hon. Baronet of an instance with regard to a person of his own country who had died at R me. After a great deal of trouble permission was at last granted for the erection of a tombstone, but no inscription having any allusion to Scripture, or any extract from Scrip ture, was allowed. The person promised that he w uld not put a Scriptural inscription on the stone, but would write some Latin verses, and lay them before the Propaganda for their sanction. They were as follows: . evils on this subject which it were sought to be suppressed by legislation, but what was the result? The Catholics were found to be a dangerous political party, but by legis- ' lation it was found they were made more dangerous, and le gislation against them was abandoned. Had anything occur red since then to induce a retrograde policy? Though it I might be true that the character of the Romish Church was inflexib!e—that its principles in the abstract were immut able—though it might be true if it gained political ascen dancy, another Marian persecution might follow—he did not say it would, but would assume it—he could not be blind to the fact that the relation between that Church and the po- _ . laical powers of Europe had been altered, and that they must now look to the matter as statesmen, divested as much as possible of the prejudices of the past. Let them look at the actual state of things and say whether they_had not to deal with the Roman Catholic Church more as a religious than as a political opponent.—( Hear, hear.) Its religion was embraced by 7,000,000 or 8,000,000 of our follow-subjects, who could not be induced to abandon it. The notion of a divided allegiance was exploded. The same arguments were now used which Blackstone, in his Commentaries, referred to, when he stated that the mark of high treason was set on Popish priests cn a civil and not on a religious account, " for every Popish priest of course renounces his allegiance to bis temporal sovereign on taking orders, that being inconsistent with his new engagement of canonical obedience to the Pope. And the same may be said of an obstinate defence of his authority here in a formal reconcilia tion to the See of Rome, which ?he statute construed to be a withdrawing from one's natural allegiance." They had, however, decided that their legislation should not be based on such a principle. Roman Catholics denied a divided alle giance, for they said they gave the Pope nothing which the Crown claimed.—(Hear,hear.) . Having given them political rights, was it consistent to invade that prior and more sacred right—religious freedom ?—(Hear, hear.) Then he would ask the question, whether there was any ground in the argument, that that which had been done was a matter fit for legislation, as a violation of the public law of Europe. —(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department considered that if anything was demonstrable it was that, namely, that a violation of the public law of Europe had taken place. Now he would ask, what was that which was called the public law of Europe? A total misconception existed upon that point. What was called the public law of Europe, was in fact a generalisation of the usages, practices, and customs of the different coun tries in Europe; and if they looked into those they would find that nearly the whole of them were taken from coun tries in which the Roman Catholic religion was the established religion of the State.—("Hear" from the Irish Members.) The case of an established religion was entirely different from one which was purely on a voluntary principle. There were the cases of Prussia and the Netherlands, where the establishment was on a small scale, and where certain ar rangements under a concordat were carried out. Under the system here prevailing the recognition of the prelates of the Church was granted, and even the clergy paid, so that it was not at all extraordinary that a condition should be attached to these privileges that no new institutions should be intro duced without the concurrence of the Crown.— ( Hear, hear.) In Denmark they did not tolerate the Roman Catholic reli gi nat all. And with respect to Buss;a, - that was not a happy country to draw a parallel from, for it was there pu nishable by banishment and confiscation of goads for a man to go from one religion to another.—( Hear, hear.) We were not likely t learn mach in the way of religious tolera tion from Russia.—(Hear, hear.) it was quite a fallacy to suppose that this country should deal with these blab ps and sees in a manner different from that in which they dealt with other ecclesiastical questions.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the speech of the Noble Lord in introducing that mea • sure, he thought it must have struck everybody that, able as that speech undeniably was, the last part of the speech was an answer to the beginning.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had referred to what was done in various other countries, and also to what happened here in the time of William the Conqueror and Edward I. But dia the Noble Lord adopt the policy of either of those two princes? No such thing. - (Hear.) Did he adept the policy of the foreign states referred to? He did not. Some of these regulations were to the effect that every n'wspaper issued for the regu lation of the Roman Catholic Church should have the ssal of the sovereign, or some official attached to it. in order to give it iorce and effect the kingdom. Did the Noble Lord propose to do anything of that sort? He did not; for the country would eanction no such plan, the Protestant fee ing of the nation would vote against such a measure Thee what had the Noble Lord been doing on that occasion ? There was no mid .tle course for them. They should take upon theme elves the responsibility of giving those privileges and advantages to the Roman Catholics, and allow them to make their own arrangements for their own ecclesiastical matters, or protest against the voluntary system and the principle of religious liberty; and, instead of facilitating their management, prohibit their practice altogether.—(Hear.) Such a course as the 1 Ater would not certainly be in accord ance with the principle of civil and religious liberty.— (Hear.) In selgium he was informed they could make as many bishops as th -y pleased.—(Hear.) The only limit was that the people would say, under certain circumstances, " If yon make more bishops than we want we won't keep them." Belgium, then, was an exception. Then there were our Anglo-Saxon brethren on the other side of the Atlantic; did they interfere, he would ask, with the appointment of bishops ? They did no such thing; they permitted such ap pointments to be made whenever deemed necessary. Even in the free states of South America, where after the revolu tion the concordat with Rome had been broken, the Pope had since made many ecclesiastical appointments, which had never been questioned.—(Hear.) The next argument to which he would refer was the assertion that this act of the rope's was an insult to the Qleen's supremacy, and an invasion of territorial power—that it was, in fact, an as• gumption of political power, and not a mere ecclesiastical arrangement. Now, he confessed he was not an advocate for the manner in which the act complai."4 of had been dor.: it seemed to him to have been arr- presumptuo —(Hear, hear.) But he did n( t would be a good reason for their legislating v +.—(Hear.) If her Majesty was really insul , the. was not one amongst them that would think th scarcely anything Which oould be done would be sufficient o vindicate such an out rage.— (Hear. ) Never in the history of this country was there one who filled the throne of these realms with more dignity, or whose virtues in private life were more estimable and worthy of imitation than our present gracous Sovereign. (Hear, hear.) If he could view that act as an insult to the Queen, there was no extent of legislation to which be would not be prepared to go— (Hear) although, perhaps, that would not quite justify him. But he thought it was the best course to pursue in public as well as in private life —namely, not to resent as an insult that which we were not sure was " quo claris fneram prolate puellis, 11la ego hoc brevi condita sum tumulo Cui formam pulcherrimam charitis tribuere decoram Quam Deus cunctis artibus erudiit." These :verses containing more fa'se quantities than they did lines, were allowed to be put on the tomb, and yet not one single allusion to Scripture was permitted.- (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman said he would not refer to that portion of the Bill which had been withdrawn. With regsrd to synodical action, be, it he had been a Roman Ca' holic, w uld have opposed it. If any attempt had heen made to give the bishops of the Church of England that species of synodical action which would have allowed them to interfere with tem poral affairs, in the same way as Roman Catholic bishops did, he should have been ready to oppose that proposition. The oble Lord who introduced the Bill had shown that the mo ment the Roman Catholic prelates met in synod, they did in terfere in temporal matters..- (Hear.) They were 'agents of the Pope, and though they had every species of religious freedom, he thought the moment they interfered in temporal affairs the people of this country had a right to rise up and denounce such interference. He wished to make one re mark as to the manner in which the present Bill would be brought into operation. If he understood t measure, no pr ceedings could be taken under it without sanction of the Attorney-Gene al. Last session the ltor-General stated that if any person felt aggrieved on uu,;c gr unds, such was the state of the law that he had only to lay the case before the Attorney-General, who w uld endorse it with the formula "let right be done." But in a case like the present, he thought it ought to bb open to anybody to prosecute for the essumption of ecclesiastical titles. - (Hear, hear.) The largest and broadest powers ought to be given n such a case, and the initiative ought not to be left to the caprice of the Attorney-General for the time.-(Hear, hear.) In making these observations he might be denounced as one careless of religious liberty. It was hardly fair to put such a construction up .:n hie words, for his desire was to treat the question as a temporal one, and as one relating to the pre rogative of the Crown. Whilst he wishei to declare on the one hand that the Pope should not have temporal power in this country, he wished - also to de•tlare to the Sovereign that they would not allow a divided allegiance iu matters depend ing on the authority of the Crown. It was on these grounds alone that he had come to the determination to support the second reading of the Bill.—(Cheers.) Mr. R. PALMER wished to state the reasons which would lead him to vote against the second reading of the Bill--(Cheers from the Irish Members.) He was far from being insensible to the deep and strong feelings which had been manifested by the people of this country on this ques tion. If he could have believed that that expression of feel ing really conveyed the deliberate and well-considered opinion of the country that legislation of this kind was re quired to protect the interests of the public and to deliver the country from any political danger, he should have hesitated before trusting to any conclusions to which he might have come in opposition to it. But from what he had seen he be lieved that the public did not view it as a political question, but as a mixed political and religious question. In approach ing the subject from this point of view, which every speaker seemed to think the right one—not the theological but the political view—he confessed he was much more alive to the dangers which would follow from wrong legislation to the great principle of civil and religious liberty than to any ins maginary political danger from the aggressions of the Church of Rome. It was necessary to start with a clear and distinct view of what was meant by civil and religious liberty in this country, for if they did that they would sweep away a large portion of the arguments in favour of the Bill, and of those other arguments which drew a fine distinction between spiritual and ecclesiastical things. He should not forget to deal with the question as between the Church and Protestant Dissenters. In this country, in which so much liberty was given in ecclesiastical and spiritual matters to Churches and religious bodies not connected with the State, Dissenters were allowed to make ecclesiastical arrangements—to hold synods and assemblies. The Free Church of Scotland, which dated its origin as of yesterday, and which separated from the Established Church because it (the Free Church) would g n o o v t e r r e n c m o g e n a i t s , e i m t the e p d r i i a n t c e i l p y l o e n o i f t out Scotland a vast parochial sy s t em, S se t p at a e rat in in t n er n fe rg re a n n c i e sed in th C ro h n u g rc h h . ses sions, presbyteries, synods, and assembly .—( e i m y. (Hear.► k therefore, be e fore, should episcopacy d s e i ne a d h thats iia t consisting hw is h which hu f nk) i t hadrrkrw rbhehaey a ll o wed to presbytery? The W their meetings and conference—th e i cal ar rangements which the C P h re a s r b e y h t i e h ria s n e s ot o la f a U d l w st a e a r allowedha d their to o synods— make those a nd the l Episcopalese e conviction of its members thought right, and all without the i n t er f ere nce of the State. He was perfectly aware that it was said that such liberty was inapplicable to a Ch urc h con nected with a head in a foreign country.— (Hear) He should have to consider that point in the course of his observa tions. It was impossible to understand it unless they first got a notion of what was meant among themselves by religious liberty. They would also have to consider the prin ciple of finality in ecclesiastical arrangements, and say whether or not they should not be changed and developed. If the principle of freed om in ecclesiastic a l arrrangemets were to be allowed , how extrava g ant to sa y that because a particular Church had for centur ie s been content with mis sionaries it should not be allowed t o have bishops , or b ecause it had not had synods during the same time it should not possess them when it required them. —(Hear, hear.) Must not the Church itself be the judge of what it requires in a different state of things ?—(Hear ) If what it did interfered with the State then 1-t the State step in, but to make our selves the judges whether the things desired by the Church were requisite or salutary for it or not, savoured in the last degree of persecution.(Hear.) Before he entered upon the difficulties attached to the question he must remind them that the Roman Catholics held as a first principle the supremacy of the Pope in ecclesiastical matters. - ( Hear, hear.) To say that they tolerated Roman Catholics, but excluded this principle, would be a practical contradiction.—(Hear, hear.) Ho wished to consider whether, the principle which they recognised in other religious bodies was inapplicable to the case of the Roman Catholics. Abstractedly viewed he acknowledged there was an important distinction between them. He ad mitted that the other religious communities of British sub jects acknowledged no foreign interference. He did not deny the difficulty, but wished to suggest that it did not lie at the root of the Church question, but at the roc', of that question - c;heit they settled len2; ago when they disagreed whether they should grant buieration to the Roman Catholic religion—whether they should be allowed to have a priest hood at all.—(Hear.) No doubt there were in past times intended as such.—(Hear, hear.) For his part he did not believe that any insult was meant in the present instance. He thought that, whether, ustifiable or not, that act was not done as an insult.—(Hear, hear.) Neither did he think it was a territorial invasion. He could not feel that it w•s for any other object then to organise a diocesan episcopancy, for the ecclesiastical regulation and management of certain localities. These were not words of political meaning. That was a language which existed in the Church many centuries ago, before anybody had ever heard of politics at all. (Hear, hear.) IN hen one heard of the Bishops of Smyrna and Antioch, one did not think that they claimed any ter ritorial authority in these places.— (Hear, hear.) What was proposed to 1 , 0 done by that Bill? To take away that diocesan epiretoPky, and legislate, in fact, against a name more than anything hise. The Hon. end Learned Member here referred to the cireumetances of officers of the Viceregal Court in Ireland forgetting the clauses of the Emancipation Act, and calling the Roman Catholic bishops in the lists of the Castle by their ecclesiastical titles. But by what they proposed in the present Bill, if a free Episcopal Church was to be formed in England to-morrow, it would be prohibited as well as a Roman Catholic one. - ( Hear. ) With reaped to the operation of the measure in Scotland, he considered it would be equally mischievous as to eccle siastical titles. He could not hunk, therefore, that this was an assumption of territorial „dignity. or a usurpation of the temporal power of theggo He r.) He thought when the absurdity et . ;tilt tffiaindion between these new bishops and the vicars aOstelic came t'; be known, it would cause a good deal of wonder. It was said, indeed, by some that the establishment of the vicars apostolic was an excellent arrange ment ; and that nobody had objected to them. The fact was, they were nearly identical. Yet the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Marylebone, world not tolerate one when be would the other. It was well known that no arrangement of the Roman Catholic Church in this country was made with the consent of the Crown. The vicars apostolic had been thus appointed: In the time of Gregory XV. a certain per son, named William Bishop of Chalcedon, had been made a vicar apostolic in this country. The Hon. and Learned Member referred to the bull by which this appointment had been made, and which was as follows : —" Qui auctoritate et jurisdictions vicarii episcopi generalis fulciatur, quoque per sones omnes, tam ecclesiasticas quam laical, intra Angliam degentes, secundurn canones et ecclesiaticas consuetudines regat et gubernet." In the time of Benedict XII., in 1688, another appointment of a like kind had been made, and it had been done in the same way as the present matter had been done. In his recent letter the Pontiff had declared that England bad already been divided into four districts ; each of which had had a vicar apostolic at its head ; and that this had so lasted till the time of Gregory XVI. Thee districts were the London, the Western, the Midland, and the Northern. In the time of James 11., and some time before his abdication, the bishops of the Church of England had made an appeal to him on the subject of these four vicars apostolic it was as follows :—" If you would please, by your R ;yal proclamation, to inhibit the four Romish bishops who style themselves vicars apostolieal, and by a foreign authority, not derived from your Crown, ride circuit in the land, and have presumed to cantonise this your kingdom inte four provinces, and to divide it among themselves (having printed maps of it apcordingly), exercising therein a jurisdiction, of which the respective bishops have been long poasest, and which by the laws of England belong un questionably to them." What was the difference, he would ask, between those and the lately appointed parsons? No difference whatsoever, except that some were called vicars apostolic, and the others were called bishops; in one case the locality over which they presided was called a district — in the other a diocese.—(Hear, hear.) There was no difference except in name. The thing was for some time now in operation, and he thought sufficiently long to show them that it was after all but an ecclesiastical arrangement; and while it remained so the Hon. Member for Marylebone thought it the best arrangement in the world.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Noble Lord at the head of the Government had referred to the manner in which political matters had been introduced into the discussions of the synod which had been held in Ireland. No sooner had they assembled than they had begun to meddle with politics. Now, it should be remembered that the princ iple of civil as well as of religious liberty belonged to an eccl [esiastic as well as to any other individual—(Hear)—and one could not pre vent, if freedom was permitted to a voluntar3 r Church, the pastor of that Church from deliberating on an d taking notice of those public questions which touched the be ;undaries of re ligion on the one hand, and concerned the Sta to on the other. —( Hear, bear.) Whatever they did they ha ci no right in a free country to prevent any class of men fro in meeting and h ex ea p r r .) TheopinionessinganHoa. Baronet upen tb w e h i l i t eba co b n e c r ern fo e r d O th afi em ,rd .le ir ea ß r . , H, Inglis) had designated the Irish Colleges as " Godless." Now, if his opinion was true the other pettier ; had a right to express a similar opinion upon the same sub ject, and it not true they had as good a right to change it at id be mistaken as the Hon. Baronet.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the landlord principle he found the synod giving exhortations to their sufferings t t o h e b p e e o I p e l d e t a o s t o r b a e y y b t the e laws under instigators, ol cim t o no s , aces,matterand n w h o a t t might be. In this fries ; country no party could be blamed for addressing his p; oorer fellow subjects in the language of advice, and if some sympathy for their condition should be manifested it could not be consi dered strange or unnatural. The State was so much in debted to that religion, which had for one of its maxims, " Fear God, honour the King," that they Blau aid give some latitude to those who taught that religion,, even if it was liable sometimes to degenerate into excess .--(Hear.) Ile had no fears for the Church of England fro ea the efforts of Rome ; on the contrary, the openness of th , use efforts made them less dangerous. All that the Pope 1 lad done was to change four vicars apostolic into eight bisl lops, and he did not see wh a t effect that could have against he Crown or the Parliament of this kin doin. There ;night be circumstances under which they might be called upon to legislate, but he did not think th e present was one of them ..--(Hear, hear. ) The present Bill was not effective; it did z lot touch the evil ! it was intended to meet,—(Etear, hear.) gpw it could be notwithstanding their delay in convoking Parliament, the greater part of their measure, when introduced, had been found by themselves, and not by their antogonists, to be either inadequate to its object, or to go further than that object; and having themselves become ashamed of it, they had asked Parliament to allow them, in part, to withdraw it. Now, it appeared to him (Sir R. H. Inglis) that the pre amble of the Bill was miserably insufficient for meeting the requirements of the case. The preamble ought, in his opinion, to have recited all the previous statutes which pro hibited that species of aggression, and likewise the Papal brief and the apostolic letter which had produced that excitement and agitation throughout the country. The Bill itself ought, at the same time, to have been much more stringent and extensive in its operation, for it would leave untouched some of the greatest evils to which the Papal system had given rise in this country. His Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Plymouth (Mr. R. Palmer) said that they ought not to legislate any further upon that subject. because they had already recognised the existence of the Roman Catholic priesthood among us ; but he (Sir R. 11. Inglis) denied that former concessions should be taken as a plea for perpetual wrongs and aggression. Six weeks ago he (Sir R. H. Inglis) would have said that the Noble Lord at the bead of the Government was the per sonification of the character which the late SidnerSmith ascribed to him when he declared that in whatever else the )ioble Lord might be deficient, no man surpassed him in courage; but that criality had now deserted him. Why should the Noble Lord recede? He had not been defeated by a F °stile division, and, if his present course was not attributable to the weakness of his Cabinst, it must be the result of some influence not obvious to the world. The Noble Lord's conduct brought to his recyllectim the lines written upon a personage whom he would not then name, who— worth the while of the country to have such an agitation on this subject from one end to the other-how it could be worth the while of Parliament to be thus discussing it, hav ing postponed all financial arrangements, and other more important questions, was more than he could answer, and he would leave to others to explain ; but he did not conceive he should be doing his duty by those great principles of civil and religious liberty, if he did notenter his protest against the Bill before the House.-(Cheers.) Sir R. H. INGLIS said that his Hon. and Learned Friend who had just sat down had concluded his elaborate and in genious, but, he was bound to ache his fallacious speech, with the expression of an opinion, in vhieh he (Sir R. H. Inglis) entirely concurred, and to which it was not, therefore, neces sary that he should further advert. Neither would he be tempted by the allusion made to himself to enter into a consideration of what he might nave formerly said on the question of the systen of education which ba w d been intro duced into Ireland be the povernment of Sir R. Peel. It was enough for him io say that he had not renounced the opinions he had formsrly expreesed upon that point. But he should observe that lis Hon. and Learned Friend bad, in his opinion, proceeded on a great fallacy in all his historical re ferences. His Hon. nod Learned Friend had talked of the Episcopal Protestant Church of Scotland, of the Free Church in that country, of the Wesleyan Conference, and of the possibility of a Free Zpiscopal Church springing up in this country; and then hs Hon. and Learned Friend had asked whether they were prepared to legislate in any one of those cases. Bit there was an essential differ- , ence between those cases and the act of aggression whic% they had then to consider. All the relig ous commu nities to which his Hon. and Learned Friend had referred f 'rmed a system of internal organisation, and were dependent on no parties except their own volun ary ass •ciations.- ( Hear, hear.) But the Jody with which they had then to deal was one, owing at least a divided, if not an entire, allegiance to a foreign power.- (Hear, hear.) He had him self held ie his hand that day a petition from the Wesleyan Conference, in which the petitioners stated that they refused to recognise the Sovereigr of another state as the fountain of honour and authority it this country. It was that fact which constituted the geat and fundamental distinction between the cases to which his Hon. and Learned Friend had referred, and the case on vhich they had then to decide. In order to show the pculiar position occupied by Roman Catholics in this aid in other countries, he had only to quote a passage from the eminent person who had been sent over by the Pope to govern the spiritual affairs of England. " The Caholics," said Dr. Wiseman or Bishop Wiseman, " arelot, and never have been, merely a collection of persona holding certain opinions in common, but they are t systematised and organised religious community, (presenting here the Ca tholic Church of the iniveree."- (Hear, hear.) The fact was that the Roman Ctholics of England could never be treated as a distinct religous body, such as the Wesleyan Methodists or the members f the Free Chtirch of Scotland. They were portions of a genre' system, which, to quota the celebrated apostolical letter," revolved round the centre of unity." They had always wird that the Church of Rome whether it expressly sougit or not to enforce its claim did in effect assume that it possessed a right over every bap tised person in the Christian vorld ; and when that circum stance had been referred to of a late occasion, an Hon. Mem ber added, "And so it ought.' And then, again, the Noble Lord who had moved the amendment which they were then considering had told them hat his Church claimed every baptized soul. They should remember, therefore, that they bad to deal with a Church wiich admitted no salvation out of its limits, and which, in consequence, very justly and con sistently claimed the care of (eery person who had ever been baptised. He hardly liked tofollow the Noble Lord in his reference-a reference which must have been painful to himself-to the number of etoman Catholic Peers who had resisted the aggression made by the chief of their religion; and he would not quote their names. But this he would say of them, that, while they were pre-eminent in rani% they were not inferior in talent and in character to ttose whose address had been presented by Mr. Langdale to Dr. Wiseman. The Hon. Gentleman who had seconded the amendment had referred with peculiar pleasure to who, had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Ripon (Sir J. Graham), and from a Noble Earl is anotherpiace (the Earl of Aberdeen), upon that subject. But the Nable Earl in question, and his Right H n. Friend too, if he was not much mistaken, had spoken of the aggression itself in language as strong as that of his Noble Friend at the head of the Government, or as that of any Member of either House of Par liament. The Hon. Gentlomat the Member for the city of Dublin (Mr. Reynolds) sh uld not, therefore, console him self with the vote of his Right lon. Friend, and forget the countervailing character of his seeech in reference to the ag gression which had given rise o the Bill. The difference between his Right Hon. Frient and those who were dis posed to deal with the case by legislative enactment, was not as to the character of the *egression, but merely as to the mode it which it should b, met. There were persons who thought that it ought to bo met with all the powers of ;he law, while there were otters who thought that such a mode of ? proceeding would be improper and inefficient. But they were both opposed to that measure which had roused the country from oue en( of it to the other. The Eight Hon. Baronet the Member for Marylebone (Sir B. I-fall) had told them of the number of persons who had signed the petitions presented aganst that act of aggression. ana of those who had signed the address to her Majesty-a number greater perhaps than hoc ever before signed any similar documents. And what was the body from which the first and most important expression of opinion had emanated ? Why, it was that distinguished boiy of which his Hon. and .earned Friend was himself a member, and of which he and smother were the only two who hal not signed the address agreed to upon the subject.- (Hear, hear.) Then again, that important and influential, and by no means specially bigotted body, the attorneys and solicitors, had, to the number of 6,50 i joined their supplications to those which had proceeded from so many other quarters, praying that effective measures might be taken to meet that ac; of Papal aggressi n. Whether the measure then under their consideration was kdequate to the attainment of its prcfsssed object he would dot then stop to inquire. All he desired to state was, that he Would receive the least instalment in respect to a principle. The principle for which he contended was contained in the Bill, and be should, therefore, support it. But at tha same time he was quite ready to admit that he was not satisfied with the general conduct of her Majesty's Government upon the subject, any snore than he was satisfied with the parti cular measure then before the House. On the 22d of October last, the first news had arrived in England of that whica the Pope had decreed on the 29th of September. Was there no mode by which her Majesty's Goverrment could have met that aggression, except by the Bill they had introduced into that Howse on the 7th of February'- (Hear.) His Hon. Friend the Member for Newark (M.-. J. Stuart) had sug gested on a late occasion that there was a constitutional and obvious course by which the mind and will of the Crown might have been made manifest to the Court of Rome; and that was by a proclamation. A proclamation from the Crown might or might not, according to its subject-matter, have a legitimate influence in this country; but with respect to, foreign countries, a procla mation of the Crown was as full and sufficient an exponent of the will of the Sovereign power among us as any Act of Parliament to which the Crown was a consenting party. In a well-known case the Government of Brazils bad entirely disregarded an Act of Parliament passed in this country, and had stated that they had nothing to do with our internal legislation, which could not regulate their con duct. He said, therefore, that, so far as foreign countries were concerned, an Act of Parliament could not have more force or validity than a proclamation from th e S o vereign. He believed that her Majesty ought, in the first instance, to have met that aggression on her Crovn and dignity, on the independence of her realms,:en the integrity of the Church, and on the faith and conscience of her people, by issuing at once a proclamation; and let hi -an sav, that as in Rome the proclamation of the bull In Cana Domini affixed to a church in that city was held to be a proclamation to the whole world, so a proclamation from her Majesty, wherever it was affixed, might be bald to convey to he Sovereign of Rome the determined will of the Sovereign of this country to resist any act of aggression on his part. But there were other modes in which the will of the Sove reign of these realms might have been conveyed to the Sovereign of Rome On the 29th of F ebruary, 1843, a Bill had been brought down to that House for regulating our dip lomatic intercourse with the Court of ilome. That Bill had not received the Royal assent until the 4th of September following. It had been forced through the Upper House with breathless haste, but it bad been suffered to remain six months in that House without any effort, or at least without any serious effort, having been made b r the Government to ensure its adoption. During that time the people of England had expressed almost unanimously their opposition to the measure ; petitions, signed by not less than 3,500 members of the parochial clergy of England, had been presented against it; and he believed that if her Majesty's Government had consulted the feelings of the people of England, they would never have thought of pressing it forward. The 'has], however, pressed it forward, and the Ro yal assent had subse quently been given to the measure. But What had they done since? They had by their own mode of proceeding precluded themselves from that most obvious course of entering into diplomatic intercourse with the Court of Rome under the provisions of their own Bill, and they had suffered the Bishop of Rome to perpetrate an act of aggression which had excited among us all that indignation, while by the common intercourse of diplomatic life they might have explained to the Pope their views, and have in duced him to withdraw his proposition.-( Hear, hear.) But after her Majesty's Government had failed to proceed in that matter, either by,a proclamation or by diplomatic intercourse, they had a third alternative open to them. Her Majesty had a fleet in the Mediterranean, and there were such ports as Ancona and Civita Vecchia in the Papal dominions. Those ports, or at least one of them, might have been oppor tunely visited by her Majesty's forces, and representations, diplomatic in their language, might have been conveyed through the admiral commanding the fleet-(Hear, hear, and laughter) - upon the subject of the act of aggression, in the same way in which France and Austria had taken pos session of cities and fortresses in the Roman territory for the purpose of conveying their di p lomatic views:- (Hear, hear, and renewed laughter.) H e saw no reason wh y England could not do what France and Austria had done more than once. But if a proclam ation at home had failed -if diplo matic interference had failed -if armed intervention had failed in securing the object of her Majesty's Government, then her Majesty might have referred to her faithful Com mons-to the representatives of her faithful people in Parliament assembled, and have endeavoured to persuade them to pass an enactment commensurate with the danger and the d ifficult y of the.crisis. If Govern ment had to take the law as their alternative, instead of a oroclamation, or diplomacy, or war-if the matter co uld not be settled without legislation , then, he said that P ar li ament ought to have been summoned at once ; for if the case doe served the attention of Parliament at all---if it deserved it in February, it deserved it in October, and he could see toe reason to justify her Majesty' s Ministers from asking the counsel of Parliament in February, which ought not to have induced them to have asked it when the insult had first been offered. But in considering the question, they should look first to the law as it was, and then to the law as it ought to be. Now, it appeared that twp of the first lawyers in Eng land, his Honourable and Learned Friend the Member for Newark, and the ex-Lord Chancellor of Ireland, had dis tinctly stated it as their opinion that the law, as it already existed, had been violated by that act of Papal aggression, and he believed that opinion was also entertained by many , of the highest authorities upon the sub j ect -by Dr. Twins, by•r Mr. Butt, and by Mr. Warren. It was certainly the opinion of the collective wisdom of the bar. Now he wished to know whether her Majesty's Ministers had consulted the law offi cers of the Crown upon that subject, and more especially whether they had consulted the law advisers of the Crown in Ireland, who would, no doubt, have correctly represented to them the difficulties of legislating upon the question for that country. If they had not consulted the law advisers of the Crown in Ireland, thee they had , in his opinion, been guilty of a neglect of their duty. He readily admitted that by the legislation of the last few years the atatutable pe- j nalties had been withdrawn from Acts of an earlier period bearing upon that subject; but he had yet to learn that the penalties at common law attached to such proceedings had been repealed. He believed that in that matter her . Majesty's Government might h ave appealed to ~he e.1,.tt.:4t,g state of the law, with as much ce r t aint y of success as anything that wee math:god could bupply. Lat if they had not done so, they ought at least to have taken counsel of Parliament at the earliest possible moment. And yet, " His hand, its skill to try, Amid the chords bewilder'd laid, And back recoil'd, he knew not why, Sc bred at the sound himself had made." —(Hear, and laughter.) What had scared the Noble Lord? His Noble Friend m'ght depend upon it that his cele brated letter would not have produced the effect it had produced, were it not that it had re-echoed opinions al ready entertained by the great mass of the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend had, it seemed, been deterred by the opposition of his Irish supporters; but it was clear that he had not succeeded in conciliating their favour by the mutilation of his measure. A great statesman ought in such a case to have summoned his Cabinet together in the first instance, then to have ap pealed to the law advisers of the Crown, afterwards to have called Paliament together, and if Parliament had not re- sponded to his demands, he might at once have appealed to the country.—(Hear.) He ( Sir R. H. Inglis) firmly be lieved that in that case the country would return such a Par liament as would enable him to pass the most efficient mea sures he might think desirable upon that subject. His Honourable and Learned Friend the Member for Plymouth had said that no person would think at present of placing Roman Catholics in the position they had occupied thirty years ago. But he (Sir R. H. Inglis) recollected well that one of the great arguments advanced in favour of Roman Catholic Emancipation was, that it would completely satisfy and pacify the Roman Catholic body; and yet they had at that moment Roman Catholic Members of that House praying for a transfer of the whole of the property of the Established Church in Ireland, although they had themselves sworn not to do anything to disturb that property. The conduct of her Majesty's Government upon that ques tion had been extremely vacillating and unsatisfactory. They had, three years ago, received ample intimation that some such step as V' e recent act of aggression was contem p'ated, and yet they hAd taken no precaution to prevent its occurrence. But they had been told by his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Plymouth that in consider ing that question we were not to go to Roman Catholic countries, but to take countries like our owe. His Hon. and Learned Friend had referred especially to Prussia, Belgium, and Russia, and he had said that they could not in any way take Russia as a standard of opinion or conduct. He apprehended that the illustration failed in each instance. There was a concordat between the Pontiff and the King of Prussia, which there was not in England, and he trusted in God there never would be.—(Hear, hear.) And then there was an agreement between the King of the Netherlands and the Pope. There then the Pope could create as many bishops as he pleased; but it must be with the consent of the Sovereign. In Russia no bull would be permitted to enter the country without the inspection and authority of a responsible Minister.—(Hear, hear.) He was, he must say, surprised at the course which his Hon. and Learned Friend had had taken, even though he was one of the two leading members of the bar who did not give in their adhesion to the address on this subject agreed to by the great and learned body to which he belonged ; yet his Hon. and Learned Friend had given such a vote on the first divi sion on this Billithich led him to hope he would be one of its supperters on tu the second reading.—(Hear, hear.) He had hoped to find Hon. and Learned Friend his supporter on this occasion ; for though the motion on which they had divided was that a the adjournment of the debate, still the real matter at issue was the first reading of the Bill, which that division decided.—(Hear, hear.) The people of Eng land had united on this subject in a stronger manner than he believed they had ever done on any former occasion, and their object in doing so was not merely to resist this attack on the dignity of the Crown and the independence of the country, but because they believed that the power of Rome had increased in this country, by having been fostered by many persons in high place's; that her Majesty's Govern:- ment had, by their silence in some cases encouraged it, and by their overt acts they had more unmistakingly en couraged it.—(Hear, hear.) What had passed with respect to the Australian Colonies Bill, what had passed with re gard to the W eat India Colonies Bill, made them consider that her Majesty's Government were favourable to the ascen dancy of the Church of Rome in the distant parts of the em pire.—( Hear, hear.) He held in his hand three papers re ferring to distant dependencies of the empi , e ; and be told hialloble Fri , nd that he was not to be esteemed guiltless in tl.ese transactions as long as he took charge of the general administration of affairs, and when such results followed from the policy pursued by their Colonial Minister and the Lord- Lieutenant of Ireland. The original concession of territorial titles was made at the bidding of the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, and it had been but too willingly acted upon by the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Colonies, and what had followed? He had moved for a return of tlae correspon dence that had taken place between her Majesty's Govern ment at home and the administration of their Church in the Australian colonies. He found that a very able address had been forwarded by the Bishop of S y dney to the Governor of the Australian colonies, end when he asked for a return of the answer that had been sent to that address, he was told it was " nil." He asked why was it not answe-ed ? They ough to remember that as a communicant of the Protestant Epis copal Church of England the Sovereigns of the House of Brunswick had held, and did still hold, the Crown of these realms.— (Hear.) He asked them was it fitting that the Church of that Queen should be placed in a subordinate posi tion and its prelates regarded as of inferior rank to the prelates that had been nominated by a foreign Sovereign, and that this, too, should be done without her Majesty's know ledge or consent?—(Hear.) According to Dr. Wiseman's doctrine, Roman Catholic prelates did not take their titles from districts, but from cities. Now let them look to New foundland, and they would find the system fostered by their Colonial Secretary ; they would there find " the Lord Bishop of Newfoundland" assuming a title conferred by her Majesty upon ecclesiastics of her own Church. This was done by a bishop nominated by the Church of Rome. In Trinidad the Pope had created an archdiocese—this was dose in another portion of her Majesty's dominiona.—(" Hear, hear" from Mr. Moore.) Then that was not merely recognised as a fact, but it was cheered as a matter of congratulation.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Moore.) He asked the Hon. Member if when the colonies were attached to the Crown of Spain such an aggression would be submitted to, or the Spanish Sovereign would, under such circumstances, receive such an archbishop?—(Hear.) But this was not merely done in the colonies, but titles were taken from portions of her Majesty's own dominions. His Noble Priem knew too much of history and antiquity not to fel that there was an aggvasioa when the Pope named a Bishop of Menevia, and thereby took ep scopal possessi , m of the ancient see of St. David's. Bu the Pope took two other sees—he took the sees of Shrewsbury and Nottingham, and it they looked to the Act of Henry VIII. they would find that these were suffragan bishoprics , and might be called into existence at any time be her Maje ay. This might ba sad to have been accident or ignorance, but he believed it was done in ma lice prepense, and was a wilful violation of the existing law. Then in Ireland the Pope had created a Bishop in Galway, and even since the Papal brief had arrived in England the Pape had, by his own direct author ty, created a Bishop o' Ross.—(Hear, hear.) He thanked the House for the patience with which it had listened to him; but before he closed he wished to remark that the ground of opposition to this aggression on the part of the Pope was their strong at tachment to the Reformation and their conviction of the blessings they enjoyed through the Reformation.—(Hear.) They looked to the state of England before the Reforma tion, and since; they contrasted the state of Protestant England with the state of any Roman Catholic country whatever. They felt that the contest at issue was one be tween light and darkness, between freedom and slavery, be tween the development of all the powers of the intellect and the prostration of all those powers.—(Cheers.) He did not ' then say one word of the religion of Rome, but he referred to the interference of Rome with the growth of literature and the spread of science. —(Hear.) The people of England knew well what were the blessings they had enjoyed person ally and socially since the Reformation, and they were of opinion that those blessings were endangered by every step taken by the Church of Rome in this country. Though he never had permitted himself, since the Roman Catholics were admitted to that House, to state his objection to their reli gion which the Scriptures afforded him, still he must say that the objections that might be made were felt deeply by the great body of the people of England.—(Hear.) In the success of the aggression now made they believed that there was great danger lest the blessings that had been so dearly purchased, and at such an expense, might be risked and pos sibly destroyed. The object of this Bill did not accomplish all tha.t he desired; but still, such as it was, he was pre pared tu take it, and he hoped to find a majority of that House supporting the second reading.—(Hear, hear.) Several Members then rose to address the House, but they all gave way to Sir R. PEEL, who rose at the same moment. He said he was quite aware of the responsibility of the task he was now about to fulfil in attempting thus early at the commence ment of his Parliamentary career to trespass on the attention of that Hon. House ; but the importance of the subject under discussion induced him to lay aside those scruples which, under ordinary circumstances, would unquestionably have silenced him into a mere formal expression of opinion, and gave him boldness to make the attempt at addressing them. —(Cheers.) Previous, however, to submitting the few ob servations which he should have occasion to offer, he was desirous of soliciting that courteous attention and forbear ance which he believed was invariably extended to all those who from inexperience in Parliamentary deliberations, or even of public speaking, and consequently from the novelty of their position, required that some allowance should justly be made.—(Hear, hear.) And would that on this, his first appearance on the floor of that House, he might riot be altogether unsuccessful in acquitting himself as became the cause he was about to advocate, as well as of the dignity and character of that assembly.—(Hear, heat) Before en tering on the discussion before the House, he wished to make a few preliminary observations with the view of estab lishing the broad basis upon which be grounded his views of religious subjects, and more particularly with reference to religions toleration. It appeared to him natural to conceive that man was a being endowed with all the faculties neces sary for accomplishing what was required of him, and, al though the path by which one man pursued his destiny might apparently be in a totally different direction, or be subject to totally different appreciations from the course which another might pursue, yet to all powers of reasoning were given for discerning, conscience for loving, and liber ty for choosing that which was good; and in the gradation which they had received those gifts of a divine economy he i m agined they would all have to render an account. Althoughlllwii he e a , : the uncpronvomising advocate of the religion 1 ha was not oni7,' edacsted. but whi.od reason and su ) i s k e e q i u 1 to conolusicius had taught bins to consider as the ni°Bt ill asYex lead to an adequate interpretation of the Divine . w prfe:ed to us in the Bible, he was prepared unhesitativey to take his stand and resist every attempt to interfere and tam- ud cheers)—a struggle which, ineascOn.ntry containing par with the doctrines and spiritual discipline of the Este- little over 2,000,000 of inh bitants, had called forth the best blished Church. But because he held the Protestant Church efforts of an army of 90,000 men.—(Cheers.) That nation to be the best, the purest, and the most free from idolatry and had been roused, not to unfold once again on the superstitious mummer es, he did not on that account wish banner of victory the federal cross against foreign foes, by any means to control the consciences of others, or de- not in another battle of Mogarten to crush the prid prive them of the free enjoyment and exercise of that which of Austria, or as against a Maximilian with a view of en they might consider as constituting a more efficient rule of forcing the ratification of Swiss independence, not as against faith.—(Hear, hear.) He looked upon religious toleration France in the 16th century to win a Navara, or to plunuder as a sacred principle of political economy, and which, acting and lay waste the fertile plains of Burgundy and besiege in unison with the freest exercise of civil liberty, so far as it Dijon, but, under the influence of religious excitement and could b 3 rendered compatible with the general interests of animosities, stirred up by artful Jesuits and Papal political organised society, had secured to them the completest eye- emissaries, to wage a religious war against one another, and, tern of Government which the wisdom and observation cf in a fratricidal contest, to pour out the most gallant bleed man had vet devised. He held, therefore, that toleration that ever warmed a patriot's heart on that soil, which, like ought to be extended to all sects and classes of religious an oasis in the desert, still afforded a last retreat against the thinkers, without any distinction or limitation being drawn, despotism of Europe,—still preserves intact the hospitable so long as publisdecency and public peace and tranquillity abode of liberty.—(Loud cheers.) He admitted, indeed, it did not suffer from the exercise of the doctrines or was with difficulty he could control his feelings and main peculiar views of an y r eligion. (Hear, hear.) When tain that rigid and impartial observance which the Noble therefore the State was called upon to legislate upon matters Lord had absolutely imposed on. him, when he witnessed affecting ecclesiastical subjects, what delicacy, what for- tee iniquity and intolerance with which Rome had fos bearance, what circumspection, was it not necessary to em- tered these dissensions, and that: after the capitulation of ploy, so that, while wielding the temporal sword to repress Freibourg she had been instrumental in inducing Lucerne to abuses, not to shock the spiritual susceptibilities or estrange prolong a hopeless contest.—(Ch eers.) The country had the loyalty of those whose religious t e nets might be, as in hardly yet recovered the consequet ices of that struggle and the United Kingdom ' at variance with those of a majority the shock of contendin g p arties. The horrors of war, the of the people? It should be remembered that religion was losses, misery, the ruinous expense it entailed were only the chief bond of human society; that history, as well as his relieved by the greatest forbearan.oe and met by the greatest personal experience in diplomatic relations with a foreign sacrifices coupled with the entire eorgetfulness of the past. power, had taught him that quarrels and dissensions on reli- And yet, if the Confederacy had not shown energy in stem gious matters produced the greatest scandal, and unhinged ming that outbreak at once, he sb ou d like ta know where the whole fabric of a State.—( Hear.) While, therefore, they would have now been the liberty— where the ref gious tole were animated is the discussion of the subject befere the ration that at present that coma try enjoyed? (Cheers.) House, they ought to have e ego desire to soothe the excite- And had not the consequences of el at wa- proved what dan men which the recent attempt to complete the organization gera were to be apprehended front apparently insignificant of a Roman Catholic hierarchy in England had not unnatu- causes—for they all knew the o rigin of the struggle in rally stirred up ;to be prepared to deal calmly with the evils Switzerland—how step by stela, if unchecked, they which it had unhappily engendered, and to direct the atten- gradually attained a magnitude capab e ultimately of tion, as it was their duty, to the consequences which he, for convulsing an entire nation. Luther said that Rome was ne, had reason for apprehending, unless corrected, would the seat of hypocrisy and into! ram ce. And certainly the inevitably ensue. The Noble Lord at the head of the Govern- antecedents of Papal history cm dirmed that opinion, and ment had been taunted with taking a step backward in proved that there was in her policy a tendency the bringing this motion before the House. He had been told most dangerous to, and moat teabversivs of, civil and that he had done that which his antecedents rendered religious liberty.— (Cheers.) Cast your eye (said the unworthy of himself and of the great Liberal party over Hon. Baronet) over the page of • history. See what epain which he had hitherto with so much ability presided; but, once was and what she is now. St e what is R .me —what is from the opinion he had ventured to form of the s oble Naples—what is Florence at the peresent day ! Where with Lord's character, he apprehended that, in the imperative Roman Catholic intolerance is civil eiberty ?—(Loud cheers.) discharge of a duty towards his country, he would not be Recollect what Hildebrand, Gre gory VII., said of Spain , deterred from the free exercise of his judgment even by —" It were better she should be long to the Saracen than considerations of his political antecedents, or at the risk of not render homage to the Sovei alga Pontiff." Recollect incurring 'charges similar to those to which he had that another Pope—buon compa goo—Gregory XIII., re alluded.— (Hear, hear.) To his mind the Noble Lord was yelling in his unholy orgies, celebrated to Almighty nos only best consulting the interests of the party which it God public thanksgiving for the massacre of St. Bar was alleged he was deserting, but what was of infinitely tholomew, and recollect that her policy still continues in greater importance, the interests ef the country at large , by the same s p irit.—(Great cheerin g . ) Its course unchanged acting as he bad done.-- (Cheers from the Ministerial still flows through the same channe'is of intolerance. Recol benches. ) And, as the enactments of this Bill—although he lect, above all, that this is the en tiny we have to ward off, regretted that recent Parliamentary difficulties bad induced and whose arrogance and hypo. trisy, whose indifference the Noble Lord to modify them, would in no way interfere to the consequences likely to e esue, provided her own with the legitimate exercise and enjoyment of religious selfish ends are attained, or, fi tiling that, succeeds in liberty, but would merely tend to control abuse , he would t hrowin g the firebrand of religious discord amidst this give the Noble Lord -in the absence of a more stringent happy, this contended people, with tette hope of deriving some proposition—his humble but very cordial supp rt.— (Cheers.) ultimate advantage in the conflict o f party now urge her on. Might he be permitted to add that, although a humble Mem- She is an enemy whom it requires eat oar zeal and attention ber of the House, it vi as with deep feelings of regret that he to counteract, and, as I believe froi et my heart this recent found himself unable, atter mature cansideratiou, to arrive at aggression was but the first step of a premeditated and or conclusions in unison with the opinions which bad been re- ganized system of attack— (Treme n dons cheering)—under cently expressed by one toward , whom— for reasons which taken with a view of enslaving the conscience, shackling the the House would readily understand— he bore considerable liberties, and shaking the allegiance of the people, I would political attachment, and to whom he looked up as called entreat the Noble Lord, as he respe , et s and values that course upon to occupy the place unhappily vacated in the ad- which he has so long and advent igeously to the country vocacy of those measures with which the country Advocated, to keep a watchful and a vigilant eye over the was endowed ? (eoud cries of " Hear, hear.") On the interests committed to his keeping as head of the Govern mo lel of that Right Hon. Gent'eman's political principles he ment of this great empire, and I ent neat the Housef by timely (Sir R. Peel) would readily fashion his own feelings; and legislation, to prevent an abuse fr om taking root unheeded, happy he was to think that upon most s bjects he could do the fruits of which will inevital;ly t usdanger the safety of the so, though upon the present occasion, consistently with the State.—(The Hon. Baronet resu a sod his seat amid great feelings ne entertained, he was forced to differ from him.- cheering, and was immediately sur rounded by numbers of (Hear, hear.) It was precisely because he (Sir R. Peel) Hon. Members to offer him their congratulations.) was an advocate of civil and religious liberty, which he held Mr. M'CULLAGII said he had listened to the speech to be inseparably united together, so that you could not de- which the Hon. Baronet had just. delivered, with feelings face the one without disfiguring the other, that he gave his which he would rather not express. But if he (Mr. adhesion to legislation upon the so-called Papal aggression. M'Cullagh) could imagine the feelings with which the Ro: Divested of its political influence, and apart, if possible, from man Catholic Members of that House had listened to that the question of spiritual jurisdiction which Rome had as- singular address, he would, as a Protestant, venture to say, sumed by that act, there really appeared to him no very let not the first step in legislation of one who had pleaded for serious cause of alarm. He saw no great cause of alarm in his own inexperience be conclusi tee in the formation of the the simple abstract circumstance that the vanity of an indi- judgments of Hon. Members. Let oee House remember there vidual priest had been satisfied—a priest, be it remembered, was a debt of gratitude still due to one whose name that who had the meekness to promote his own elevation by the Hon. Baronet bore- ( Hear, hear)--sand for the sake of the assurance that the political consequences resulting therefrom great deeds of the father, he would .ask the House to forget were superficial and transitory in their nature.—( Hear, hear.) for a moment what he (Mr. elCullegh) hoped he might He held that there was no great reason for alarm in the characterise with justice as the inconsiderate expressions simple circumstance that Dr. Wiseman had been permitted, as of the son.—(oh, oh, and laughter.) For his (Mr. M'Cul by the stroke of a harlequin's wand, to shuffle off the lagh's) part he had but one duty to discharge, and that was sombre vestments of a bishop in partibus, for the gaudy to speak as a Protestant Member of that House on this ques trappings of a spiritual prince, and the title of an imaginary tion. lie, as a Protestant, protested against this Bill, be see.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) After all, a cardinal's hat cause he was a sincere believer in the truth of the principle and hose had not always been reserved for even such impor- of Protestantism, and because be believed the principle of the tent functions, as from the present appointment one might Reformationho be nothing less than theperfect and unabridged be led to imagine: A Medici wore a cardinal's hat in petti- right of of private judgmeut, and because he believed this coats, and did not history point a finger of scorn at Julius Bill was an indirect attempt to oppress those who con 111., who, with no great self-respect, it must be admitted, scientiously differed from him on the great matter of gave away the cardinal's hat which he had vacated on his eternal salvation. For these reasons, and because he re own nomination to the Pontifical chair, to the keeper of a garded the Bill as a departure from the proper province of menagerie of monkeys which it was his Papal pleasure to legislation, he would give it his perfect and unqualified oppo maintain.—(Laughter.) Pio Nono, it really seemed to him, a Bier. It seemed to be taken for g ranted that the bisho p s although but so recently and so forcibly reseated in the of Ireland, in assuming the titles of sees, were offenders affections of his people by a sudden, and certainly very ex- against an acknowledged law; and the Right Hon. Gentle traordinary burst of religious zeal on the part of Republican man (Sir George Grey) in the course of his speech on this France,—and, by the way, it really seemed as if the Citizen question commented on the fact, that in a recent address to' President of the Republic were desirous of making some she Throne they had signed their names simply without ape amends for the Emperor's misconduct, as where the latter pending the names of their sees. The probable explanation was instrumental in establishing republics,— as. for in- of that war, that those prelates only signed by the names of stance, the Ligurian, the Cisalpine, and the Partheno- their sees when the documents they so subscribed had re paean,—the former had destroyed the only one he could lay ference to diocesan acts. It was a fact within his own know his hands upon ; and where the uncle, without much dis- ledge that the Most Rev. John M'Hale, Roman Catholic play, carried off from Rome a Pope beloved by hie people, Archbishop of Tuam, had had letters of administration the nephew, with a very great display, and with consider- granted to him from the Prerogative Court of Ireland, by the able expense, it would appear, since it required 30,000 men, Most Reverend John George, Archbishop of Armagh, who carried back to Rome a Pope whose presence the Romans had in those letters of administration addressed him as e the made arrangements to dispens with.—(Laughter an I Most Reverend John APHale. Roman Catholic Archbishop cheers.) Ho was about to say that Pio Nono really seemed of Tuam."—(Hear, hear.) So that they had the first Pro to him to espir• to the character in which Hildebrand and testant prelate in Ireland recognising the titles, the assump- Gregory VII. were represented in an old picture which he re- tion of which was now called an offence. One of the membered seeing at Naples, with a croeeer in one hand and first acts which the Archbishop of Tuam did under those a whip in the other, trampling under food the crowns of so- letters of administration was to make an affidavit before vereigns, and with the nets and fishes of St. Peter by los Master Litton, one of the Masters in Chancery is Ireland, side. This r-presentation of the fiery monk of Cluny and who was strongly attached to Protestant principles, but afforded no incorrect portraiture of the ce erecter which Pio who nevertheless permitted that prelate to sign such affidavit Nono, with all his virtues and weaknesses seemed desirous as John, Archbishop of Tuam. The Master of the Rolls in of enacting.—(Hear, hear.) But Papal history teemed Ireland, the Hon. I'. B. Smith, who made an order on that with vagaries of this nature. Let the crimes, the bigotry, very affidavit, not only granted the application in favour of and she intolerance of the Papacy be for the more home- the Archbishop of Tuam, and against the persons with whom diate appreciation of those who, now that tt.e day-spring of he contended, but also awarded costs to him.—( Hear, hear.) liberty had been eclipsed in the blood of that great man Again, in the course of a sharply contested suit between the under whose auspices it was just beginning to dawn over late Protestant corporation of Drogheda and their successors, Central Italy, were by an arbitrary tyranny endeavouring which was referred by the Lord Chancellor to Master Henn, to counteract further development, forgetful that a day of a Protestant official of the Court of Chancery in Ireland, and reckoning might not be far distant, .and that, unless they a man distinguished by experience, worth, and learning, that profited by the lessons afforded to them, the temporal power gentleman, in refuting the mode in which the trust in ques of the Pope, in the balance of justice, might be found want- thin in the suit was constituted, wrote at the head of the list ing.— (Hear, hear.) But let us bs caretul,— of trustees, "the Most Rev. Dr. Crolly, (the then) Primate " Lest from the bounded level of our mind, of all Ireland ;" and' after the death of Dr. Crolly, Sir E. Short views we take, nor see the lengths behind ;" Sagden nominated t: the Rev. Paul Cullen, D.D., Roman but as to regulate our appreciation of the recent invasion of Catholic Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of all Ire the prerogative of the Crown of England, as not to limit land," to act in his stead in the trust.—(Hear, hear.) And ourselves to the immediate effec s, but. to the , ossequences was he to be told that these men were now to be punished likely to ensue. This was net the firs , time at which this for assuming titles which the most eminent men had country, with reference to the usurpation of authority conferred upon them ?—(ll , ar, hear.) Although it might to appoint archbishops in this realm, had had just cause to be contended that they could not make void by statute the complain of Rome. So far back as the reign of King John spiiitual acts of the Roman Catholic bishops, still they had he found Innocent 111. nominating an archbishop attempted by this statute, as originally frame ', to make a to the see of Cantesbery, whose authority and criminal offence a signature to any deed or writing, or any jurisdiction John refused to recognise. The Pope other act of a Catholic bishop signed in his capacity of a di consequently placed this country under an inter ict and , cesan bishop. But what was the fact? The omission of prohibited the King's subjects from rendering the homage the 3d and 4th clauses left the . Bill as obnoxious as it was which was justly due to their sovereign, and very generously before. - (Cries of "Oh !") He held in his hand an opinion gave this country to the King of France, whom, only a few given to him within the last three hours, the opinion of three years before, he had also excommunicated.—( dear, hear.) eminent lawyers, which left no doubt upon that point. It id not eo X. i n his infallibility, give to Henry VIII. the struck him, looking at the preamble of the Bill, whether the title of e 'eefender of the Faith," in consequence of a work three omitted clauses were not contained in the first proposi which he wrote on the Seven Sacraments against Luther; tion. It was a very serious matter, which the Right on. yet, in a very few years after this same title was abolished, Gentleman the Secre'ary of State shouldSlook to, whether the Fatnese Pope (Paul III.) promulgated the bull her Majesty's subjects should be set in a net of doubtful int-r -in Ciena Domini, with a view of asserting the pretation, where crimes were charged, and the chief pastors of Pope's authority, and, at the same time, of excommuni- their faith were to be made amenable. If they were to legis eating Henry in England. These ecclesiastical thunder- late, they ought to do so openly. In a case submitted to Mr. bolts, in the hands of the madmen who in t h e Bethel], of the Chancery bar, Mr. Bramwell, and Mr. Saville, early and middle ages usurped to themselves this authority , of the common, those gentlemen had given the followin g before the light of science and literature had dispe l l ed the o p inions upon these three questions-1, If any name, or dark clouds of superstii ion, had a very powerful influence style, or title, designated under the second clause of the Bill, over men of ignorant minds. Then, again, in the recent were attached to any deed or writing, whether that deed or case of Piedmont, in consequence of the Sicardi laws which writing would not be void, notwithstanding its omission? had abolished certain ecclesiastical privileges, we had The answer was in these remarkable words :—" We are of witnessed another display of the power of the Roman Ca• opinion that any deed or writing such as is there designated tholic Church at the oeath-bed of one who had been instru- would be void in law.—(Hear, hear.) The second question mental in their adoption, but which display had nearly he put was this—Whether, if the third clause be omitted, any proved fatal to the bigotted prelate under whose auspices it endowment or gift toanyßomanCatholio bishop etarchbishop had been planned.—(Hear, hear.) Thank God we had no in the man n e r designated in the c la u se, would be void? The serious ground for apprehension on this score in answer he received was this :—" By the first clause, any gift the present day. The people of this country, or endowment for the benefit or support of a Roman Catholic happy in the enjoyment of civil and religious bishop would be void ;" and they went on tas state the rea liberty —proud of the person of their beloved Eovereign, sons for:that opinion at length, but he would not trouble the who had endeared herself to their affections by even firmer House at that .late hour of the night by going into them in ties than those which might naturally have at- dotal Any gentleman who felt curious to see them might tached her to them—would laugh to scorn the important have a copy. The gist of the matter was this—that the attempt of that miserable political impostor to estrange second and third clauses were conclusions, and, legally speak them from their duty. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Se- ing, consequences, derived from the first. So, although the cretary of State for the Home Department, in the debate second and third clauses were left out of the Bill, they were on the introduction of the Bill, said that if the mea- as completely dealing with the question of Catholic en sure were adopted he knew no reason for entertaining dowments, and were going as much beyond what the Right any apprehension of the loyalty of her Majesty's Roman Hon. Gentleman stated it was the intention of the Govern- Catholic subjects; but he (Sir R. Peel) apprehended that ment to do, as if the clauses remained in the Bill. No there were many in that House who would be inclined to wonder, then, that the Honourable Baronet the Member for question, however painful it might be to do so, the accuracy Oxford found that concession had not conciliated opposition of that statement, and he disposed to attribute it either to a in Ireland. No wonder that the Bill was daily looked upon too confiding spirit, which the loyalty of the Right Hon. with increasing aversion and opposition, and he trusted that Gentleman had given expression to, than to any substantive opposition and aversion would continue until they triumphed proofs he had adduced in support of it. He regretted, how- in the defeat of such an obnoxious measure.—(Hear, hear.) ever, that the Noble Lord, in attempting to legislate for Eng- Mr. MOORE moved the adjournment of the House. _ d a _ land, should have extended the enactments of the Bi ll to Ire- Mr. WOOD said that the Hon. Member for Plymouth h t e land, the ecclesiastical condition of which , from the fact that fallen into several fallacies, one of which removed, three-fourths of the inhabitants were Roman Catholics, rest fell to the. round.g The Hon. Blembeeishaerely.D He (Mr. rendered it by no means synonymous with England, giving his definition of civil and religio e us n I her y either side of the Indeed, he could have wished, that while establishing even Wood) . would yield to no n rn!in e e • tie • les of civil and religious severer restrictions against Papal aggression in England House in zeal to defend the pr p inni stent with the safety of the they had left Ireland, at all events for the moment, altoge- liberty to the utmost yerge the Pope to take the position he had ther untouched.—(Loud cries of " Rear, hear.") He appre- state ; but, once permit a t gaglan _ a. let it be permitte 1 that handed it to be quite possible to make a distinction in aegis- attempted to assume ngl might refer to the P p lating upon these matters between England and Ireland. subjects of the ; C a c tions m uofjurisdiction , and we should)- They could not conceal from themselves the fact that the the resolution of back q to that period of darkness and i at Bill before the House, although shorn of its fair proper- oece be thrown utoler d religiuus liberty had n once when eiv an ven b een dons, would produce, if it had not already excited, serious an (Hear, hear.) He considered that hostility and opposition in that part of her Majesty's domi- be— ad d of.—hich had been uttered on a forme the few nions. Experience had taught them how tenacious the Irssh awligshwe Honourable Baronet opposite had r occasion by Roman Catholics were of their religion—and he found to throw back ,the cause of civil and religiousatendency, no fault with them on that score ; and experienceshae in Europe, more hen anything which had liberty also taught them how futile were all attempts to interfere , in the last 300 years .--(" No, no," and 1 taken place even in an indirect manner, with what they considered to be effect, for example, would those words loud cheers.) What the free exercise of a religion which united a great ma)or: y h e Legislature of England, have upon the if adopted by the of them in one common bond of profession of faith. Let new engaged in a desperate situ people of Santini*. House then cease to direct their energies in this particularued by such as that which England herself ru e f r religious liberty, channel ; or, if they must legislate, let them not b b u e t estui which, as it net be forgotten that one of the had gone through? Let what, perhaps, might be applicable to England, The been allowed to expire without Ministers of Sardinia had regarded Ireland, was altogether idle and unprofitable . in this gion, solely on the groundthat the consolations of his reli. recently exhibited he had been the author of display of Protestant feeling .t against successful three measures which country certainly afforded some secuernidy, although it had Church, because they veer were distasteful to the heads of that aggression on the part of Rome; u an anti-Catholic civil freedom. Let 01 eso many steps in the marFli of been said that an attempt to g et p_ e assumptions of the Pope be sanctioned of England had failed, his , by the English Parliament , would think demonstration in the north artifice the Roman Ca- I their cause desperate and the Sardinians indeed.—(Hear.) His (Mr. Wood's) belief was, that whatever excite a fictitious sympathy in i definition of tholic might employ to the Protestant people ' had to • religious liberty was the right which every man their behalf on the present need occasion,the exertions of worship his Creator in the mode any indivi- best; to select for his • which he deemed those whom he of England did not their unanimous disapprovalof wished dual to give vent to to select, and to exercise his religion freely, with this t which Rouse had recently adopted. en an ad- safeguard—Sic ' utere too ut non alien ladas—(Hear, hear;) the conduct dress, signed by 40,000 Roman Catholics, recently presented —while civil liberty as compared with religious liberty was Catholic] he found to her Majesty by three Roman the this, that no man should be deprived of any civil privilege expression that they were ready "to give to Caesar the things Whatever on account of a n y reli g ious opinions whatever . t h a t were Caesar's, and to God the things that were God's ;" ; But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had kept back the real but, remembering that this expression was susceptible of a difficulty, which, indeed, solely influenced his (Mr. p. Jesuitical interpretation, he did not consider it by any means Wood's) vote. Tice Hon. and Learned Gentleman admitted satisfactory.—(Hear, hear.) But what had experience taught that the Roman Catholic acknowledged a foreign .au bins personally in diplomatic relations to foreign powers iu a but he said, "if that is your objection you shout? have lme very crita el juncture of affairs weh respect to ecclesiastical thought of it when , you admitted the Rome tt Catholics differences? A passive observer e.e!er tie ;testi f nnstesel.t. in Parliament.' lint he did net them e , is tin to a e pee wierily Noble Lord at the head ci forego ' of ' ' Church of Rome that it mixed up temporal %llatever ()Seers of see and •-- spin might suppose te the contrary, and dir ected not to interfere, tual matters, so that you could scarcely sever one from the . he had witnessed inactively, but not without emotion, the other. —(clear , allo w ed ear, hear.) And if that Chu rc h were to mighty struggle of liberly against despot sin and intolerance in troduce the canon law into this count W is- , as Cardinal se .