The Sun. — London, England, 1845-03-18 00:00:00

~'~ pitb .ny ie iettl cited to tl6tts o 4o l i thhe"re Oa, there i forthe, ridri t P ° st '' ell- P •de - I, 0136 i *O l , if , re f k.,„, 0 1134° L, V o. e d bf Ai Ipe o I ' l ' tde Gel ) srd U. roe es ore , tie% is era he 1,0 e; he c.- „ i ,ht 1 141 114 je J 7 el Oen. t o don rel _ eo .) t he i v °id i , f• .1 t i ;; bi g r fist relative to general inclosures. He thought a measure of that kind, if cff.ctually carried out, would be of as rule h .. good to Eneland and to the English labourer, and oteewhat analogous to a healthy system of einigra ti,"---(Hear, hear.) Let them once throw open a new en atinel for the industry of the lower class s, and it trould Fpeetli;y be taken edvantage of. But he thouelit that :reread Ito sore hill should be passed, for it t o s 8 psi: ate to Ire to !,! ,bi. o':' -iii of the H, ti .j, ; h aieire, that I/ 'etatie e it a u; oie (el:, this task. ilew 10 qte leave the } lce ,, u . se to deal with, for it was hopeless to e-.pt et that t „, i etirnmeet %soul(' have to do with it. Ile (Mr. Miles) w ilh two lion. Memb rs had aait.d on the Right Ilan. l ittronet the Secretary for the Home Depirtment. The G'overnnaerit took time to consider his demands, but up tt l 'i that ti me he had heard hothing more upon the subject. e heti now come to the House to ask a small reduction, Whi ch he had ; z oo,' reason to believe had been thought by the Ri g h t Hon. ir , net at the head of th Go l e a l er ntnent, and by th e N o bl e Lord the Member for Lon -83 It would b e i n th e teco l:e c tion of the House, that in th t a Committee of the House had been proposed on i ef c subject of agricultural distress; and among the Hon. H em bers who sat on that Committee were the Right n• Baronet at t h e h ea d o f th e G ov ernment, and the ce le Lord t h e Al em h er f or t h e Ci t y of London. The urn mittee divided the subject matter of their inquiry (111.4)1°11r departments, from each of which emanated a tuitinet report. One of those reports, to which he would the §uh - Cemmittee over which the Right Hon. Baronet de . d, on the subject of criminal prosecutions. This oftruttee, as he had already said, was a sub-division o general Committee appointed to inquire into agri • -edieral distress. He would read an extract from the re- Port i th ss ucel by the Committee of 1833. The Hen. Member read the extract alluded to, which stated that the whole subject of the county rates was one well worthy of d the consideration o f the House, and it recommended that e Payme n t o f t h e cost o f p rosecu ti ons s h ou ld b e b orne , fo t . her the county, but by the Government. It charac 7ised the s y s t em o f expen dit ure as anomalous in the t o tte i tn, P, and unfitted for purposes of general utility, and to , ttu e d upon the House to give its deliberate attention '''e subject. He now came to the report on criminal orcsecutions which had been issued by the Committee t i t :r Which the Right Hon. Baronet presided, ar.d that t h °expressed a similar opinion with that he had read to ie te e ii , e "use. That conclusion had been partly carried I, o , e e uvot, fel . in 1836 it was determined, while the Noble e t '' was in office, that the prosecutions in counties Lc c . nlid be paid by the Government. However the Noble e did not exactly carry out the re it: n iendations made to him in that report. pf L eeuld scarcely conceive, after the reading is er t "se reports, what answer the Government a e 110 w prepared to give him ; or why the iecom le nnations made in 1834 sheuld not be carried out in th 4s . It would be in the recollection of the House that the Government had sent doe n to the country inspectors 'llquir e i nto t h e con di t i on of prison discipline. They eee, d eke tight ministerial instructions, and he (Mr. Miles) rte ti " e g. u t he had a right to ask that the expenses and the likewise of prisoners committed for trial should tetse be borne by the Government. The house 1 11 ,7 remember that the county rates were not levied th e n ,. tile farmers alone, but upon the tenant. It was to mole cottager that vves called upon to pay them, it een th "tigh the aggregate amount must seem small tierdsed heavily upon them, and its remission, without a e ,; l ll tt much to the expenditure of the Governme nt, tr e ;", (i appear a step in the right direction, and be a re telilltien of a good principle. He would like%t ise ask, in particular cases the expenses of the Coroner's (47 4 tr rt should be remitti d. On the ceast bout s e ere 11 4- fitly washed ashore, the Coroner was obliged to se u „, 4ll ifiquest on them, lind the expenses time off the rates. Ile asked thf m, in such a case as that, to wi t l , l l : et lea st h a lf t h e expetts-s. Another circumstance tie s t ' ll Pressed heavily neon the rate payers in counties, ga te the exlienses ineurn el in printing the re tot •): of voter-, and this expense also, he e,e:ved. should be bonne by the Government. m b ‘• would be aboet the total expense to the Govern k4l' supposing the w hole of th , se recommendations 106, 4 1:reed to ? Let them take it it round numbers at tte e ' e uCi a, but, deducting something from that, the whole de e Vit would Lot exceed 350.000/. He had thus en tiee4ntrod, as shortly as possible, to bring before the no the 'ldle House the state of teuricultural distress and at, itgrieultural interests generally. lie had called the a ti ,• I Wei ee 'l"n• of the Government to certain recommendations eta " he conceived would be of the trtmest benefit to the tetic,Ulturists, at the same time that he had pointed le t , t 9le evils which peculiarly pressed upon them—more Nt e l e cul arly the poor-rates of the country. The con- Itte4 l ; e tee were more alive to the necessity that ex that the representatives should endeavour to carry aei e Z te tse objects—objects calculated to benefit that class hh Placed the Right I ion. Baronet in the position kane then held. It had been said that the rents trei e r c en paid up, and that, therefore, the distress was het, l '„, ll tetnd could not be general. Such was not the to ssibe L ho rents were paid up because it was quite as e 'e for any person to hold a tenant upon his lands if thathetnele not meet his expenses. But it was a certain lhe t for the last few years they had not made any ke e , 1. There was a want of confidence in the measures t hat ~;v c ,oght forward by the Government ; they said te ,; ° e ttling could be worse than the position they now 41 '010 4 , and it was but seldom that they heard now kei t re lips of her Majesty's Ministers any allusion to keti . , tl e terest. They stated that the few words given by ' tit Hon, Baronet to the agricultural interest, at the 1. line' his financial statement, filled them with distrust. vass e e rY same session in which the co r n laws were shiel d ) they saw the duty on articles over which the k e tith q Protection had been thrown suddenly removed, nev e : agriculturists very naturally said—" What is to 1 ,1 1 (1 ei i;'' the corn-laws coming next ?"—(Hear, hear, eers from the Opposition benches.) Looking at i l l rtee e T r ,"ens of agriculture, he said they had a right to .Isa ea . "„o, or if this protection was not afforded them, it Nree - a ling but right that they should be released from die ti c l ! the taxes which pressed upon them. When he 1 / 1 1 , 1 lai no l Ito was stating, not hie own opinion, but the o - " k of the farmers, Who thought the Government would ;It a l :" to restore their former prosperity by uphold .lklee-:,°,11-laws. It was a knowledge of this circum teere tb,;'"„teh had induced bjm to bring this subject be 1' th,l e nouse; but, at the same time, he must declare 11 Q 41 , °use that it was done without the sanction of tie VtoUltural body Ho had thcught it necessary, in i ?o tt , 4l 4 l n g this discussion upon the floor of the House of ° e Il i a " , to state thei'sentiments of the farmers, and i th' 4 t , " assure lion. Members that he had mentioned liel to which he did not sincerely and conscientiously e founded in truth and justice; and it now et ta i'l ! b or the House to say whether it affirmed or resolutien. e h 7,k I ICH seconded the amendment, but after the able , y 4 0% ". I .Tt e H t. on. Member__ for Somersetshire, he would tres -4.414 tme of the House but for a ve few agricultural)miutes. th2ea,„7, sent there to represent a large con thr4t Who had returned him upon the firmdetermination th"uld uphold agricuitural protection. He did not Prefore, he should be doing his duty by them, if he did Idira eu th at occasion, express his entire concurrat ce in the 1 1 " , th h i propounded by his Hon. Friend. Every protection 4 e e s' Iseen afforded to agricultural produce had, within the af yea >i, been reduced to an enormous extent, an extent ,4 1 1 e 4 0 his mind, was far greater than either the exigencies cOt it T a es called for, or was compatible with the interests of Vita to .'7. The agriculturists had a fair right to ask, not as dN 1 : 3 b at a s an act of justice, that they should be relieved sb ras Inc of the burdens of local taxation. Great I,Tres, prevailed amongst the farmers of England—a 4 0 _ 4 a ei w oe hteh was sot peculiar to locality, but was Itealeo t ," in every part of the country. In support of this eg I, ‘ !"e could refer with confidence to the deputations i k i l l sta te a e lt ed upon the Right Hon. Baronet . some time ago, es lett, " to him their ideas and their sentiments upon the hesee ted i s well as to the numerous petitions that had been la.‘„ in to Parliament from many parts of the country. hel l liht 'red the corn-laws when they were originally " r ward, bat had he been aware that it was the httli „Ili° introduce the Canada Corn-Bill, no power on t 44 H 41 (1 have induced him to say a word in their favour. 1 14 1 de t i , ° " 4 ' could not resist the appeal which had been the 6 0 , 0 - I relieV e the agricultural distress under which they 4 0 111 0 bn a. E b g• They did not ask the House to benefit S ir the they k lY it viould not look in vain. 41, 1 ° de e ' A RAM, who was more than usually indistinct, t 4 ,7rd t o ~‘" the intentions of her Majesty's Government with reier aet `ue amendment proposed by the Hon. Member for i kli s4 l ,k i But before doing so, he would take the opportunity 1 1 ,2 la at ng the Bon. Member himself, and the Noble Lord 4 1 , 1) ro ti , s t i ke, for the moderation and temper with which he tli t snst"O'b' t he subject before the House. In the first place, serve, that they were not discussing the extent or la t t i _riet y 5 ' p ot . protection. Nor were they discussing the ) 11 1 '° 1 1 t e °1 continuing or discontinuing legislative pro• is: had b a g r iculturiSts.—(llfar. ) His Honourable Friend 44%; he t 4 ° _,tight the amendment forward, had entered into e ta th uet!ils with reference to the condition of agricol- Nte ry. Te distress which existed in the various parts of the chtttot f 44 doing this his Hon. Friend had laid the founda h Or his motion on the paper which they were then dis )44 of the rathe r for the repeal of the existing corn-laws—a lk t Ns of Canada Corn Bull, or the re-consideration of some te e % eh 'n en- tariff. Before glancing at some portions of • ot,,eau t i A _Teade by his Hon. Friend, he would first bring under t t ' t qa 67atiOttof the House what had been thefinancial policy tiq i itifilyi t c l nment since the time they had first taken office. Ite! d ad not been directed exclusively to the advancement c d hit act erest of the country, but he believed it was li tte ted Mated th ey had adopted a course which was cal the Nts ealy to benefit one, but the whole of the existing 4,4 i Er st the country. It would be remembered, that when a ' r ae into office they found a very considerable L i' the revenue. There was a large expenditure Zi tt ,'„ 4 tuner exceeded the public resources of the country. .4t`f'etanT. it woUld also be recollected that the Right lion. Itp,, tee Member for Portsmouth had some short time (lie depreciated the continuance of this deficiency, eSe tt tre eet l e g t h o t rt Honourable Gentleman determined that t / to tee was necessary on the part of the th„,. t the demands of a declining exchequer. The t 4 heGe'ntleman's Government, of which he was a dis tesildrev,M2lnber, applied a particular ' remedy, and in doing alt the 4cise l :i i. n _ dc a r r e g .a.v el e y b o y n fi t v h e e resources of the consumer. They that per cent. all the dila!! of c th us e tom e s assessed taxes ten per cent. Now k l it till W' s Ev e p v.7 1 42 . t was well worthy of remark. e The p i v n o - - . th , e 6,,, tor resn upon the consumer, so far f r o m Aig l • i;le s tey a r t ° n i u 7 , ll ooo g increase in the revenue, ft still O t t'st, ,4 0 n s „ 1 . 0 . Now what . was the pant , Y s „ this financial experiment taught her ply the pep Government ? Why it convinced them reiteheeidita of indirect taxation had been abso -111% k tPeri tv 0 1 , and therefore, if they wished to restore ad istri x i,;,, the .country. they mu-t abandon indirect taxa . - t the ft b e duvet tsxatien to a greater extent than tikee year i ii` 4 7tore tested in a time of peace • consequently, itoo'x 4 teeet the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the h it t?: in 7ade two propositions. He proposed the impost- Itti?t :11.11;itiZettrifaneteada:ii .property-tax upon the country, from bi ts c p ro , i4ed fo cipated that not ()Ay would the public r, but an available surplus be obtained . .. 1 , 1 42 L ied t ot , at the same time, that this aurplue ihonld ila s 1 1 Ri ot tretnissit.a of indi .rct taxation, and in te year ko i , 4 01/. • flan. Friend snide e a remission of no les h s than W th erapi ttti V"_ a n article s o f raw mater i al upon w hi c h im -16,,_• at e setae and eitensive l a b our was a l ways emp l oye d. O ne g Of th e date on rawmaterial consisted of timber, the remis- Un Which not only gave large employment to ' the manufacturer, be' proved a eonsiderable relief to the landed interest and the community. The results had shown that these alterations had net been made rashly, and he hal the pleasu-e to state that at that very moment, the effect of the remission of the duty on timber was made known to him by a return which had been placed i❑ his hand within the last few days, and which re turn was based upon the authority of an influential party re siding in Liverpool. The effect of the remission had been a reduction in the price of 'American timber, far less in the year 1 , 41 thati in the sear 1842. In 1641 the price was fill. a foot ; but in 1842 the price was 41;1 ; and it must be remembered that no portion of the community was more benefited than the lani,ed interest. In a former portion of his address, it would be remembered that he had stated that hi- Right Hon. Friend made remissions to the ext, nt of 1,135,000/., of which 24 ',OOO/. was the proportion of the duties imposed on coffee ; and upon 86 other articles, the aggregate of whose duties amounted to 278,0001., there was a like re mission. In 1843 no further remission of the excise or cus toms duties were made; but in 1644, his 'ion. Friend proposed a remission of the duty on wool, amounting to 100,0001. ; on currants, 91,000/. ; and on coffee, 82,00('l. The remission of the duty on wool proved a source of great pecuniary benefit to the landed interest of the country. He was supported in this opinion by the fact, that four months after the re mission was made, the price of British wool was considerably increased, while before it was continually declining in value. The effect of the measures proposed by the Right Honourable Baronet in 1842 and 1844, taking them in conjunction with the proposition which had lately been br ught forward, would greatly contribute to the prosperity of the landed intere t of England ; indeed, much more so than the removal of that local taxation of which the Hon. Member for Somerset com plained. Then, again, the Government proposition relating to sugar would have the effect of remitting taxation no less in amount than 3,600,060/. ; but they fully anticipated that this decrease in the revenue would be fully made up by the increased consumption of that commodity. And all these reductions would reduce the expenses of the farmer and the landed pro prietor to a great extent. They proposed, also, to reduce the duty on cotton 2,200,0001., and on other materials, which were articles of general e , insumption, 600, 000/., making in the whole the removal of indirect taxation amounting to 2,431,000/. In 1834 there were remissions upon stage coaches, vinegar, glass, and ether articles, affecting the agricultural classes in common with the rest of the community, amounting to 640,000/. and taking these together with the remissions proposed by his Right Hon. Friend, they amounted to 6,324,0001. ( Hear, hear.) In these reductions, the agriculturists had participated with the rest of the community--( Hear, hear)—and with all this remission, there was still a considerable, and an augment.. ing surplus of revenue above expenditure—in the advantages of which surplus the agricultural interest would share with every other.—( Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend the Member for Somerset' asked if the landed interest was not to have ►ome small participation in the benefit of the reduction of taxation? Now, he (Sir J. Graham) thought that if his Hon. Friend would look at the manner in which the income tax was contributed, he would see that the commercial and other classes contributed in their proportion as much as the agriculturist.—( Hear, hear.) But his Hon. Friend contended that whilst the manufacturing and commercial classes had been prosperous, the agriculturists were still in distress. ( Hear, hear, from the agricultural benches.) Now, in the commencement of his speech the Hon. Gentleman said, that the distress was general ; but towards the close, he made the admission that it was not so. _ _ Mr. MILES—No, no; I did not. Sir J. GRAHAM—Very well; the Hon. Gentleman would still say that the distress was general in the United Kingdom. —(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Miles.) Very well ; let them look to Ireland. Now, he was prepared to show that, in Ire land, the agriculturists had been more than usually prosperous. since the tariff came into operation..“ Hear, hear.) In Scot land, again—and he could speak even more positively as to that portion of the United Kingdom—agriculture had been prospe rous, and in no recent years had rent been paid so punctually as in the last year.—(Cheers.) His Hon. Friend had, in his speech, laid the foundation of a much larger motion ; and he ( Sir J. Graham) must say, that if the arguments of his Hon. Friend were worthy of the attention of the House, the ques tion would net be whether some remission of two or three hunrhed thousands should be granted, but whetht r the corn law. as it stood at present, should not be repealed, and the tariff undergo a considerable modification, as far as re garded the importation of cattle.—( Ilene hear.) His Hon. Friend had gone into statistical details, to show that the importation of foreign corn in the last three years had been very great. But it was to be remembered that, in two out of the last three years, the production had been dec dcdly insuffi cient.—( Hear, hear.) sh hat, then, would have been the c ,n -dition of the people if foreign corn had not found its way into the country in those years ?—( Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend forgot that the population of the country increased to the amount of more than leo,ooo per annum, or at the rate of more than 1,000 every forty- eight hours in the year.—( Hear, hear.) What, then, would have been the condition of the country, if it had not been for the importation of foreign corn ? (Cher rs. ) There would probably have occurred a convul sion fatal to the landed interest, in common with every other. —( Cheer s. ) His Hon. Friend went at last to the subject of barley. Now, he should endeavour to illustrate the question of the present corn-law by this very case of barley.—( Hear, hear.) In the last year, the importation of barley had been 1,60 ,000 quarters; and this not suddenly, nor at a time of scarcity, but only to meet a regular demand, week by week, with a regular and equal return to the revenue.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. MILES—How much in the year? Sir J. GRAHAM had heard somebody ask, bow much ? He answered, 1,2e0,000 quarters.—( Hear, hear.) The returns for the last ten years—( which the Right Hon. Baronet read in detail, but in so low, hurried, and indistinct a tone, that it was impossible to follow him clearly in these, more than in the greater part of his numerical statements)—showed that, in 1844, when the importation of barley was the greatest, the price of home-grown barley was the highest, except for two years.— ( Hear, hear.) This proved to him irresistibly the effect of an increased supply producing an increased demand, by which the agricultural interest had been materially benefited, instead of injured.—(Cheers.) His Hon. Friend complained also of the importation of Canadian corn, wlich he (Sir J. Graham) re garded as a most useful subsidiary to the corn-law of 1842. ( Hear, hear, and a laugh from the agricultural benches.) The corn of Canada was prepared to be transmitted to this country, as soon as the ice broke u", so as to arrive early in June, and to prevent the ruinous effect which a sudden rise, and the consequent influx of foreign corn at a later period would have upon the producers of the ensuing harvest.—( Hear, hear.) In that way, the importation of Canadian corn averted the danger which he (Sir J. Graham) fairly admitted the sliding scale was liable to.—(Cheers.) His Hon. Friend had further contended that the agriculturists were entitled to com pensation for the injury they had sustained by the importation of foreign cattle, dead and alive. This was a matter of figures, and, in dealing with it, he should follow his Right Honourable Friend the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, whom he was sorry to see on the opposite side of the House.—(Cheers and a laugh.) [The Right Hon. Baronet then read extracts to show that the importation of foreign cattle, since the tariff, had been so insignificant as in no degree to affect the market ; but his figures were not beard in the gallery, even in respect to one year or one item. ] Now, he would tell his Honourable Friend what had a direct and immediate tendency to lower the price of home-bred cattle. It was not the importation of foreign cattle—in thousands or in tens of thousands—it was the lowering of wages in the manufacturing districts.—(Great cheering.) In the part of the country where he resided, and which was altogether an agricultural district, they looked not to the quantity of foreign corn or cattle imported, but to the state of employment in the manu facturing districts.—(Cheers.) Their present dread was, not lest there should be an increase of foreign importation, but that there should be a relapse in the manufacturing districts— (Cheers)— because there could be no depression of one class of the community without the suffering of every other.— (Cheers.) He (Sir James Graham) must say, as a landed proprietor, that so small a demand on the part of the agricul turists never was made as that now put forward by his Honourable Friend.—( Cheers and laughter.) His Honour able Friend had dwelt upon the poor-rate and the county rates as peculiar burdens of the land. He did not agree with hie Hon. Friend, but he would not now go into the question in detail. He would confine himself to denying that the present administration of the poor-law was injurious to the labourers as to the rate-payers. The facts were, that from 1813 to the present year, whilst the population had increased one-third, the number of paupers had decreased one-third; and the rates had decreased from 16e. per head to 8.. 3d.— ( Hear, hear.) The total of the rates had diminished from 7,784,0001. to 6,848,0001., or about 1.000,0001.—( Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend had made little of the benefit to ensue from the abolition of the cotton duties. Let them look to the circumstances of those who depended on that manufacture. The destitution of the hand-loom weavers was extensive in the extreme ; but the interests of the manufacturers and the agri culturists were so extremely interwoven, that the one could not well exit without the other. It was true that the handloom weavers had their looms and their dwellings, and that their wives arid their children worked for fifteen or sixteen hours a day for the sake of earning 6s. a week ; but where was their aid to come from? why it must be drawn from the land. The Hon. Member then proceeded to speak of the rural police ; but what was the fact with respect to them ? Why the Noble Lord opposite did not rr &keit compulsory upon any county, but he left those to adopt it that chose. He admitted,with his lion. Friend, that the tithe commutation operated in some instances heavily upon the land ; but the truth was, that the tithe-owner was origi nally a co- parcener with the soil, and the Tithe Commutation Act had greatly assisted the landowner by cutting off the co-parcener from the soil He (Sir J. Graham) thought he had now gone through the various points by which the Hon. Member had endeavoured to make out the claims of the landowners. Ho would now advert to the remedies he had proposed. The first was a general Inclosure Act; the second was with regard to drainage. Now both these subjects had been under the in vestigation of the Government, and he believed he did not speak too confidently when he said that his Noble Friend at the head of the Woods and Forests would be enabled to lay on the table of the House, during the present session, measures on both those subjects.—( Hear, hear.) Another point taken by his Hon. Friend was the allowing of malting for the purpose of feeding cattle, and that point his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was by no means averse to con sider.—( Hear, hear.) He now came to the next proposition of the Hon. Member for Sornersetshire, which was that the whole costs of prosecutions at assizes should be transferred from the county rate to the public fund. A Committee of that House had sat in 1834 on the subject, and very wisely, he thought, an amendment had been made by the Government to such a proposal. It was said if such a proposition was carried that then counties would have no interest in preventing crime ; the result was that the burden was agreed to be borne, half by the county and half by the public. He thought it would not be prudent to disturb the present arrangement, and place the whole burden on the public purse. The Hon. Member for So mersetshire then proposed that the Executive Government should interfere in the management of gaols. He did not see the necessity of investing the government of gaols in the hands of the Executive and taking it from the counties. The Com mittee oft 834 first proposed that district unions should be formed and that they would have the management of highways. Now he (Sir J. Graham) thought that such an arrangement might be carried into effect with some benefit ; that the relief of the poor and the management of highways might be worked well together.—( Hear, hear.) As to the next proposition of the Hon. Member, namely, that of statute labour, he believed that it had been carried into effect. Most of the recommendations of the Committee were important ; but he was afraid they had been but slightly attended to. The Right Hon, Baronet then read several of the recommendations of the Committee, and also do cuments, to show that they had most of them met with the sanction of Parliament, but that a carelessness had been shown in carrying them into effect. With respect to coroners, he ( Sir J. Graham) thought the throwing of half the expenses of that officer en the public funds would be unrea sonable ; because it should be remembered that the rate payers elected the coroner, and they, therefore could not com plain at the payment of his expenses. He was ashamed to have occupied the House so long ; he admitted that to him this was no new proposition—it was an old friend of his.— ( Laughter.) He had the honour of being a Member of Lord Grey's Government, and he then resisted it ; and again, in 1834 and in 1830 he had adopted the same course. In short, whether in the Government or in the Opposition he had strictly followed the same line of conduct, he had not changed his opinions now, and he felt no hesitation in voting, therefore, against the proposition of the lion. Member for Somersetshire, lid for the motion that the Speaker do now leave the chair. Mr. NEWDIGATE supported the proposition of the lion. Memher for Sonteesessbjre. He thought the Right Hon. Baronet had entirely thrown out many of the principles laid down by his Hon. Friend. He rejoiced at the isrosperity of the manufacturing interests, but he could not shut his eyes to the declining state of agriculture. He thought if the speech of the Rig it Hon. Baronet had been made earlier it might have been some ground for the Hon. Member fer Somer- I setshire postponing his motion. lle rejoiced in the imposition of the income-tax as a step towards an improved system of taxation ; hut he complained that in the reduction of taxation which had been made in consequence, the ha- t prosperous class had not been considered.—( Hear, hear. ) One might almost think. on looking at the spectacle exhibited in that House, that the Hon. Member Co- Stockport was the high-priest of free trade, and that those who sat on the Trea sury benches elsaunted responses to his sorg.—( Laughter. ) There were two portions of her Majesty's dominiee s in which aericu tore was at present prosperous—lreland and Scotland — and he supposed it was with reference to this that the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London had said that " pr - tection was the bane of agriculture "—a ;proposition which had been cordially assented to by the Hon. Member for Sun derland, and ab'y and warmly supported by many on the opposite side of the House. The only meaning which he could attach to the expression was, that bicause agriculture was not prosperous while protected, therefore, pro tection was its bane.—( Hear, hear.) The connexion appeared to him not to be inevitable. There was another principle at 'work contemporaneously with protection. He was one of those who thought that the monetary system of this country— ( Laughter )—had a principal influence on its productive powers, and that system had been operating conjointly with what had been termed the " bane of agriculture." In conclusion, he must express his firm conviction that the Right Hon. Baronet had not disproved the statements made by the Hon. Member for Somer'etshire, and, therefore, not absolved them from the obligation of affording to their constituents relief; and however trill ng that relief might be, it would be taken as an '.ndieat'on that if the distress increased, the relief would hereafter be ex: tended. The Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and Forests was, it appeared, engaged in considering many subjects ticepls interesting to agriculture. He believed that that tact, and the tone of the speech delivered by the Secretary of State for the Home Department would have a most beneficial effect. By such means many would be satisfied and assured ; being made to feel that they had one of their own body, anti one who did nut forget them, among her Majesty's principal ad visers.—( Hear, hear.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the Hon. Gentleman had done him the honour to allude to an expression which fell from him at the very beginning of the session ' namely, that " Protection was the bane of agriculture." Now, if that ex pression required any justification or proof, it would be given by what had passed that night. The Hon. Gentleman who brought forward the motion stated that in various instances protection had been broken in upon. He went through the different Bills which had been passed under the present Government—the corn-law of 1842, the tariff of the same year, and the Canada corn-bill of 1843. He did not venture, however, to propose that any of those laws should be repealed ; but having stated those Bills, he left the question, merely proposing that the sum of 275,000/. should be taken off the county rates.—( Hear, hear.) He was followed by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment, in a speech which the Hon. Gentleman who had spoken last declared to be so highly consolatory to the agricultural in terest, that it could not tail to have a beneficial effect upon the country. Now what was it that the Right Hon. Gentleman had said which was of so consolatory a nature ?—( Hear, hear. ) Did he propose to restore protection to its former high rate? Or did he propose additional protection, to prevent the influx of' cattle and corn from Canada ? Nothing of the kind. What the Right Hon. Gentlemau said was, that the Legislature ought to give progressive facilities for the impartation of foreign commodities—(Cheers) that if persons wished to know if a good price could be obtained for agricultural pro duce in his part of the country, the mode of ascertaining it was to inquire into the state of Manchester and of Glasgow, to ask what was the condition of the manufacturing districts in Eng land and Scotland, and if these were flourishing, then it was expected that agriculture would flourish in a similar propor tion.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Was that any encourage ment to protection ?—( Hear, hear.) Was it not directly the reverse ?—( Hear, hear.) Was it not showing that as they had taken away protection, and encouraged the progress of manufactures, they had afforded the means of improving agri culture ?—( Hear, hear.) But as the Right Hon. Gentleman had said there was a speech made the other night which had not been answered—( Hear. hear)—which he did not believe very well could be answered, and which showed in what manner pro tection was injurious to agriculture—he meant the admirable anti powerful speech of the Hon. Member for Stockport.— ( Hear, hear.) Ile believed it might be shown with regard to most articles, as that Hon. Member had shown with regard to agriculture, that the consequence of legislative pro tection, while it appeared to be a favour to that particular class which was protected, operated against all the other sections of the community, anti therefore exposed that class to odium and to envy ; he believed the consequence to be that it tended to make men slovenly —( Hear, hear) --wanting, in energy in that particular occupation ; and that it induced them to rely upon an Act of the Legislature to secure to them a certain price in stead of relying upon their own skill and energy. That he should be disposed to say with regard to almost any article. He maintained that if ever there was a country which was dis tinguished at once by great energy and intelligence, and at the same time by the possession of extensive capital, which was ready to be employed in any enterprise that required such employment, this was that country. Lat them rely then upon that energy, intelligence, and capital ; let them look to them for the means of wealth and for the encouragement of prosperity, and let them not rely upon that broken reed which might be obtained from legislative protection. He might say this with regard to any article of manufacture, for which, in former days, the manufacturers themselves sought protection by legislative means.—( Hear, hear.) He was happy to say that manufacturers, now-a-days, perceiving their great success in foreign countries, and finding that they had not the smallest need of that protection, had adopted sounder theories of com merce.—(Hear, hear.) But with regard to same of these manufactures, there might have been an appearance of success on the plan of restriction and monopoly, because there were some articles of which no great quantity was consumed, and for which there was no absolute necessity in the community. \ ow, he would take one on which there was a monopoly in Holland, and another in which there was a prohibitory duty in this country —he referred to spices and silk. The world could live without spices, and people could have articles of raiment without silk. There was no absolute want of those articles. With regard to articles of that kind there might be a very high price in pro portion to the demand, and legislative protection might to a certain extent be successful with respect to a particular class, though it were an injury to all the rest of the community. But the agricultural body had no such advantage. While corn and other articles of food were cheap, they might have a duty of 205., 405., or 595., and the community would not complain ; but immediately articles of food reached a very high price, there was naturally so much di-content that the system itself broke down.—(Hear, hear.) That had been found to be the operation of the system ever since 1815, when lie was a Member of that House, though he was not present at the debates on the corn-law, the farmers said that nothing less than 80s. would be a remunerative price to them, that it was impossible that they could live and carry on culti vation with a less price for their corn. Why at that day it was impossible that any Legislature which had regard to the peace of the country could attempt to maintain a law whirls gave such a price as 80e. Well, the protection was relaxed, and a new law passed. But that again was found too high. The law of 1828 passed, and after a certain time there was a general complaint against that law likewise. It was propo_ed in 1839 to alter that law, and he declared at that time that he was in favour of a moderate fixed duty, and of a relaxation of the system. Those who were placed in opposition to the Govern vernment of that day said, that the protection was not too much, but ought to be maintained; that they would not throw the law of 1818 into the lottery of legislation, that even if the Government had come forward as an united Government, which they were not, they would oppose any altera tion in the existing law. Well, a . change of Government took place; and those who were apparently in favour of protection, those who were against a relaxation of the law, came into power. And what had they heard from the Hon. Gentleman that night ? Why, they had heard that ever since that time Parliament had been gradually breaking down that protection; that it was bro ken down first by the corn-law of 1842, then again by the tariff, and, lastly, by the Canada Corn Bill of 1843. Therefore, the case was as he (Lord John Russell) had represented it. Although it might sound very well to talk of protecting native industry, and of giving that important interest which was concerned in agriculture, a greater security for the price of their produce than any interest in the country. Although that might at first appear a very good theory, yet, when they came in effect to free eighteen millions of people to consume food at a certain high price to be fixed by the L gislature, such was found to be the discontent, and, he might add, such the danger in consequence, that every pru dent Government would say with the Right Ho nourable Gentleman opposite, " Look at our iacreasing population, and see whether it be safe to continue the law as it is; if we cannot have free trade in corn immediately, let us have corn brought in through some of our colonies ; let us, in short, have some facility or other by which the extreme rigor of the law may be made more tolerable, and by which this pro tection, which is said to be so necessary, may be less a protec tion in effect than it is in appearance."—( Hear, hear.) But it might he said that, after all, even if this protection could not be kept up to so high a pitch as was desired by those who brought the Government into power for the purpose of main taining it, there was no reason why it should be a mischief ; that it could, after all, be no bane to agriculture, even if it did not do the good for the sake of which it was sought. But then he came back to that argument which had been used so irre sistibly, and he said that by this legislation, which tended to keep up a price which they could not maintain, they did give a false reliance to the farmer—( Hear, hear)—they did induce him to look to the law and not to hie own energy.—( Hear. ) They did 'each him to neglect those means upon which he ought chiefly to depend—such means as economy, acti vity, and improved science, by leading him to think that he had a landlord who went up to Parliament expressly to take care, that whatever his cultivation might ba—be it. slovenly, be it ignorant—there should be a high price secured to him, and that lie need look no further than the Acts of the Legislature for a proper remuneration, if he wished for a remu nerative price in the market. He would not detain the House any further upon this point having, he thought, sufficiently shown that this protection upon which the farmers relied was, as he stated at the commencement of the session, " the bane of agri culture."—( Hear, hear.) Well, then, the Right Hon. Gen tleman the First Lord of the Treasury had said the other night that he ( Lord J. Russell) seemed to oscillate between the two sides of the House, and that, although he declared protection to be the " bane of agriculture," and although those words might sound very well, yet he did not carry that theory into effect. Now, with regard to that point, though he might be entirely mistaken in that view, if two modes of doing away with protection were presented to him —one, that of doing away with it suddenly and abruptly ; the other, that of removing it cautiously and gradually— in such a case, following the great authorities who had written and spoken on this subject, lie should prefer the latter to the former mode.—(Hear, hear.) But that was entirely as to the means to he employed, it was not a question as to the policy which ought to be adopted. There was no doubt im plied as to the end at which they ought to aim. —( Hear, hear.) When he said that protection was a bane to all the interests protected, but more especially a bane to agriculture, and that they ought to do away with restriction and monopoly, he was, in fact, following the words and senti ments of Mr. Ricardo. But at the same time, in the very page in which Mr. Ricardo maintained that doctiine, he inserted the word " cautiously," as a warning—though he was more of a theoretical writer than a practical statesman—as a warning to those who undertake this task, as to the circumspection with which it ought to be carried into effect.—(Hear, hear. ) But, with regard to the general theory of this subject, he might be allowed to make a quotation from another author, who was still living, and whose name he would mention to the House when he had read the passage. The words were so much better than any he could use, the whole theory of com merce was so well stated in it, that he trusted the House would forgive him for reading it. " The only beneficial care that a Government can take of commerce is, to afford it pro tection in time of war, and to remove by treaties the restric tions placed on it by foreign Governments in time of peace, while it abstained from placing on it, however plausible they might seem, any restrictions of their own creating." " The interest of a State consisted in the prosperity of the whole, and it was contrary to sound policy to defend one class at the expense of the others ; the only mode of ascertaining the natural .limits of each was to let them 411 alone.''— ( Cheers.) Such was the opinion given many years ago, in a pamphlet by Mr. Alexander Baring, the present Lord Ash burton—(Loud cheers)—it was marked by the sagacity, the knowledge, and the distinguished talent that Noble Lord pose sessed. —( Hear.) This then was his ( Lord J. Russell's) opinion with regard to commerce in general, and he did not think, therefore, they ahould gain anything by doing what THE SUN, LONDON, TUESD A V EVENING, MARCH , 1845. many farmers wished them to do—repealing the Canada Corn Act—putting a higher duty on the edmission of foreign cattle, or in any way going back to that as stern of high protec tion which the present Government declared it did not wish to restere.—( Hear, hear.) But there was one thing they could do for the farmers—there was one thing they were bound to do for them—and that was, not to hold cut these delusive hopes to them.—( Cheers.) They had seen the farmers meeting this year in various places, they had read the reports of those meetings, containing complaints of their present state, and requests for further protection. He thought the House ought to tell the farmers, if it did give them this farther protection, it wou ld on ly b e a ff o rdi ng th em a " elelnsion and a snare"—(Cheers)—that their best reliance would be on their own industry and skill, and that the future course of Parliament would be to diminish and finally take away the present amount of protection, not to crease new ones.—(blear, hear.) But such was not the language held, such was not the course now pursued. The Hon. Gentleman who had spoken from that corner of the House, had stated how much they regretted having voted for the corn•law of 1842. That law was one which the Host. Gentlemen themselves es tablished. He knew that he ( Lord John Russell ), and many others on Isis side of the House, voted against the second read ing of that 11:11, but it was carried by a great majority, con sisting chiefly of the representatives of agricultural counties.— ( Hear. ) Then those lion. Gentlemen say they would not have voted for it. if they had known of the tariff or the Canada Corn ILI!. With retard to the tariff he could not think that anything which had happened, or anything that was likely to happen, could be at all injurious to good graziers, if they bed also a great importation of foreign grain, and could command the right means of competing in the markets of the country with any growers of foreign cattle whatever. With regard to the Canada Corn Bill, to that he also objected, but on very different grounds. He considered it to be the establishment of a corn law in Canada, an extension of a kind of protection to the agricultural interest of Canada, which it might be hereafter very troublesome to alter. The Hon. Member for Taunton ( Mr. Labouchcre) founding his objections to the Bill on these views, brought forward a motion which would entirely have stepeed the progress of the Bill. Was his Hon. Friend sup ported by the agricultural interest in that House? By no means.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentlemen opposite gave such support to the Government that it was enabled to carry the Bill.—( Hear, hear.) When they went farther than the second reading, he (Lord J. Russell) was not prepared to carry on that opposition. Ilut it was evidently within the power of those who represented the agricultural interest to have put a total stop to the Bill, and for any impor tation that had taken place under it, let them Lot throw all the blame on the Government. They had themselves assisted the Government, and they were assisted every day—( Hear, hear) —in carrying out this same policy of giving greater freedom to trade at d taking away restrictions. 'they should tell the farmer, then, it was a good and round policy they were pur suing, and that they intended to stand by it fairly and honestly; then they would not be in that House, following in the wake of the Minister, and then going down to the agri cultural meetings to attack him for his free-trade principles.-- Such was Vs opinion of the general conduct they ought to pursue • but he would now proceed to the particular motion before the House That motion declared that in any remission of duties, the agricultural interest ought to be consulted. He thought the Right Hon. Secretary of State had answered the latter part of the speech of the Hon. Member for Somerset, with regard to the particulars he had stated. Take as an in stance, the poor-rates, and the tithe commutation. The poor rates were one million less at present than they were before the new poor-law passed; and with respect to tithes, the agricul turists stood in a much better position now, than formerly, in asmuch as they could improve their cultivation and increase their produce without paying a single sixpence more to the tithe-owner. The agriculturists had been great gainers by the difference in their position from what it was some years ago.—(Hear.) Ile should not enter into the question of the expense of prosecutions ; if they esta blished a different system altogether, and if the Secretary of State should ever choose to appoint a public prosecutor, then different arrangements might be made with respect to the expense of prosecutions ; hut at present the subject was quite beside the question before them. Ibis answer to the Hon. Gentleman, when he asked for consideration for the agricultural interest iu these remissions of duties was this— that the agriculturists ought to place themselves on au equality with the rest of the community, and say there should be no mote duties on the produce of agriculture than on any other raw material of commerce. The food of the people was in fact the raw material on which the greater part of the people were maintained. Let them come forward, and say, on , his raw material, the least possible amount of duty should be levied, and then, when they were on the same footing as the rest of the community, when they were no longer reckoned among the favoured interest, they might ask to have their peculiar burdens considered, and if they were proved to have injurious consequences en agriculture, and to prevent the employment of the number of labourers who would otherwise be employed, anything that could in justice and equity be demanded, would be conceded by the greatest free trader and most determined abolitionist of the corn-laws who sat on that side of the House, as readily as by Hon. Gentle men who held property in land. But they could not expect this view of their case to be taken while the odious impression caused by the corn.laws hung over the country. The majority of• the House of Com mons, and the whole of the House of Peers, was composed of persons connected with land; and the protection given to that interest was believed by the people to be at the expense of the rest of the community. What an injurious pos:tion this placed the landed interest in with the country. 'the Hon. Gentle man who brought forward the present motion alleged there had been a decline in the price of meat of 6.1. or 7d. per stone, and he complained that it had become cheaper since the tariff of 1842. He complained also that corn had fallen in price, and he asserted that these were evils which required interposition. After all, when they followed this out, it amounted to this. The Hon. Gentleman complained, and alleged it as a grievance, that a poor man, in purchasing 2 lbs. of m at for the Sunday dinner of himself and wife and family, could save about 2d. in the price of it.—( Hear, hear.) If he bought bread, he might also save 43. or 53. in the bread of his family for the week. Let them consider how injurious it was to them to come for ward with these facts, and allege them as an evil and a grievance. If they had everything reduced to a fair state, if they could say they had no special protection, and that in conse quence of the flourishing state of the manufactures these was a greater demand for agricultural produce, causing an in creased price, then they might fairly rejoice in the fact of that increase of price. But when they said their law was not suf ficiently stringent, that it did not prevent the people from pay ing 63. less for bread or meat than they , might be made to pay by the law—this was a complaint that must tend to place the landed interest, and the great landed aristocracy of the country in an odious position.—( Cheers.) He, as much as any man, had a right to respect that landed interest.—( Hear, hear, from Colonel Sibthorpe. ) The cheer of the lion. and Gallant Member induced him to make an allusion which otherwise he should not have done. He had been connected with persons who took a great interest in the progress of agriculture ; his uncle and father had done as much as any men towards the progress of agriculture ; they had done all they could to bring the farmers of the country together and make them conversant with improvements.—(Cheers.) He was, therefore, the last man to wish for any unnatural or unfair depressiou of the agricultural interest. But if they really wished to promote the good of agriculture, if t h ey w i s h e d t h e l an d e d i n t eres t t o hold that high title to the respect and rank they had won for themselves in former days, and ought to preserve in the pre sent, they ought not to agree to motions like this ; but they should seek to establish some fair and equal arrangement be tween all parties, and to let all Englishmen see that if the landed interest was the most powerful, it was also the most generous, portion of the community. Mr. B. ESCO TT rose amidst loud cries of " Order," and " Mr. D'lsraeli," who had stood up at the same moment, but gave way to the former Hors. Member, who commenced by saying that having already given way to one Hon. Member that evening, he hoped he would now he heard, particularly as he intended to vote against the motion of the Hon. Member op posite, although he happened to be one of his constituents who would give him his most t ecided opposition on this question.— ( Hear and a laugh.) The Noble Lord the Member for London had gone rather minutely into the details of this question, and into the many grievances which it was contended pressed upon agriculture ; but surely they were not now discussing that question—they were not now debating the nature and the working of the corn-laws—( Ilear)—and therefore he re gretted that the Hon. Member had deemed it right to bring forward his motion, thereby interrupting, for so small an object it professed to attai n , the ver y important business of the country as now wader discussion.—( Hear. ) How ever, he thanked the Noble Lord the Member for London for having entered at such length upon this question, for it was the very same as one which he intended to have brought forward last session.—( Hear, hear.) But now he would ask what was it that they proposed as a mode of relief? It was this, that the county rates should be re moved. But who was it that imposed these county rates? Were they not the Hon. Member for Somcrsetshire, and others whom he now saw around him.—( Hear, hear.) And was it not the same who had the power to remove them?—( Heir. ) It had been said that this question had now merged into a con test between two great bodies in this country, namely, the Anti-Corn-law League and the Protection Society. Now, although there had been occasional skirmishes between both these parties, he had never said a word against either, and never would, so long as he did not feel himself compelled to join either—( Hear, and a laugh)--but with the exception of those skirmishes, he did believe that the Anti-Corn-law League would affect trade as little as would the Protection Society agricultural distress.—(Laughter.) Now , he would ask, was not the real cause of -the dissatisfaction of the farmers of this country the conduct of their representatives in that House—( Hear, hear)—and if he concurred in this feeling amongst the farmers he had his reasons for it.—( Hear, hear.) Let it not be forgotten, that hitherto there had been two kinds of meetings held at fixed and regular periods in the country, at which the farmers had been in the habit of looking forward for the expression of the opinions of those whom they looked upon as their leaders, and being guided by their statements on subjects connected with agriculture—those meetings were the agricultural meetings and dinners.—( Hear, hear.) Those assemblies were generally held during the Par liamentary recess ; and it was the habit of all classes who lived by the cultivation of the land, to discuss at these meetings va rious measures affecting their collective or individual rights. He remembered that when first those assemblies used to take place subjects of a political tendency were sometimes discussed at them ; and in order to prevent the danger likely to follow from such discussions, rules were then fraxted by which all pu blic nature were prohibit e d b e i n g in of last year he attended one or two t to re p d ic u s ce o d f . a political theic al a o autumn tumn of these assemblier. and he there found that the effect of this rule was, that the leaders of the agricultural party adopted this course. There were usually some Members of Parliament present, and they, having no doubt these s :me political questions uppermost in their minds, could n ot well suppress them altogether, so they just said as much abou t them as to convince the far mers they knew nothing whatever on the subject.—( Laughter. ) And then they spoke to the farmers on agricultural subjects in such a strain as convinced these same farmers that those Hon. Members knew nothing whatever on that subject.—( Great laughter.) Allusion had been made to the debate which took place last week, and much had been said about the prin ciple and the intent of this question ; but he begged to say this, and he would let the farmera know it, that neither the principle nor the intent of the question could have such at tacks made against them as those made by Hon. Members who thought they were supporting both.—( Hear, and laughter.) One lion. Member made a speech in that House complaining of the agricultural distress, and supported protection elsewhere. —( A laugh.) Another wrote pamphlets and bills, and dis tributed them through the country, declaring that protection was the cause of the distress, while in that House he supported protection.—(Laughter.) Nosy, he conceived. that if those Honourable Members were right, they would be the means of compelling others to petition for the total repeal of this protection.—(Hear, hear.) Yet, in the face of all this, eliat did the agricultural Members in that I louse do?.. Why, they supported protection —the House stuck to the corn-laws and tariff, though these were the very things that it was said created all the distress. ( Hear, hear.) Now he (Mr. E.) had spent some time amongst the farmers, and he thought he knew something about them, and he could assure Hon. Members that there was nothing they liked so much as plain dealing ; and he would like to know what sort of answer w o u ld they receive from Hon. v A o l t e e n i ssbe in rs fs'avlowumroffhey heti sent to represent them, and who had pro tection from boils sides of the House. —( Hear, hear. ) Hon. Members would find this to be the fact, that the farmers and the labourers too hail much deeper intellectual powers on this question, and many others, than those who conceived themselves their superiors gave them credit for—( Hear, hear) —and the labourers knew well Chet ' they and the farmers could only prosper by the general pros perity of the country.—( Hear. ) It was a fact well known to many that the lab curers could reason fairly upon this topic, and they frequently displayed that acuteness of intellect denied to those who lead a life of luxurious ease and indolence. He would not have supported the proposition of her Majesty's Government, or oppose the motion of his lion. Frien 1, did he not believe from the bottom of his heart that the budget of 1842 and the budget of 1815 vi ere the commencement of a great series of financial expel iments—the commencement of a r.ew system of taxation—the commencemset of a new system of encouragement of trade, manufactures, com merce, and agriculture—in short, the commencement of a new system for the promotion of the reward of industry, which, when finally accomplished and carried out to the end, would be for the benefit of all classes of the people—would raise the value of property, would raise the value of labour, and tend to the maintenance of English peace and English liberty, and the maintenance of that constitution under which they had been born and bred. Lord WORSLEY did not think the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had spoken the sentiments of the farmers. The farmers had petitioned in favour of the existin g protection being continued, tearing that it might be attempted to reduce it. His Noble Friend who had seconded the motion, was the mover of the address in 1842, and at that time an expectation was held out to the carrieers that the corn-laws would maintain wheat at a certain price. In that expectation they had been disappointed. It had been said that the agricultural distress was not general, that it did not exist to a great extent in the north of England. This was true ; but the reason was, that the farmers of the north had a greater amount of capi'al than those of the south. The distress had not sprung up this year, but had gradually been increasing for two or three years past, and now it was showing itself in such a form as to compel the farmers to speak out. He had refused the other night to go into Committee on this subject, believing that it would delude the farmer to do so; but he saw nothieg in that resolution which had been proposed by the Hon. Member for Somersetshire, calculated to delude the farmer. If lion. Gentlemen representing county con stituencies should refuse to vote for that motion, their constituencies would be grievously disappointed, for they would consider it tantamount to saying that their re presentatives did not believe that the agricultural dis tress justified the interference of the House of Commons. Mr. D'ISRAELI said that if he had succeeded in catching the Speaker's eye, when he in vain attempted to do so, as the Noble Lord the Member for London terminated his speech, he would have presumed to have offered some considerations to the House upon the great question respecting protection to native industry, which he would not presume to do at that hour of the night ; and, therefore, he was afraid he must restrict himself to the principle of discussion which had been laid down by his Hon. Friend the Member for Winchester, and confine himself strictly to the motion before the House. Other wise, he could assure the Noble Lord, that watching as they all must do with great interest, the formation of the character of an individual so eminent,who had been, as he informed them, thirty years in that House, but who did not appear to arrive at a result as to what was the interest of the country, that he (Mr. D'Lraeli) would not presume to place his opinion, founded on amuch more recent experience of the House than his, yet, he would dare say, that after all, one truth was evident, per haps even for that discussion—namely, that protection was not a principle but an expedient. If an expedient, it must d pond on circumstances; it could not be settled by these quotations of extra dogmas which had been stated by the Noble Lord.— ( Hear, hear.) He could not doubt that they should all of them have ample opportunity of discussing that great question which was now the question of the age and the country.—( Hear, hear.) They should all of them, either by their speeches or votes in that House, or on the hustings, sooneror later, come to a test upon the great question, not whether you will have protection, or free-trade, for that is not the alternative, but whether you will have free imports.— ( Hear, hear.) He was one of those who thought that there was much to be said on both sides ' but he could not forget the speech of the Hon. Member for Stockport, which he was sure would not be easily forgotten—(Hear, hear)—and there fore, he would not say that much more was to be said on both sides. Yet he could say without great presumption, and with great respect, that much more might be said on one side than was yet offered to the House.—( Laughter and loud cheers. ) lie might presume to enter into this questien at that hour, if, indeed, he were in the position of some of those, who were at the head of affairs, and who might at such an hour rise, and with the certainty of being heard, enter into a field so vast.—( Hear, hear.) He could not forget that before they came to a settlement of this great question they must grapple with the great point—the war of hostile tariffs —( Hear, hear.) They must ascertain how far imports would affect the rate of wages—how far they would have an effect upon the rate of price—how far cause a disturb ance of the precious metals—how any disturbance of the pre cious metals might affect the possibility of their maintaining the standard.—( Hear.) He did not offer those considerations in a dogmatic tone to the House, but merely to show that be. fore they came to a settlement of a question which must be set tled—( Hear, hear)—there were great numbers of considera tions which must be entered into in an unimpassioned and pro. found manner.—( Hear.) Now he came to the question be fore the House—the question mentioned by the Hon. Member for Winchester, who opposed the motion with so much fervour. He would meet the Hon. and Learned Gentleman on the ground he had himself chosen. They had a motion upon this subject, the terms of which must be familiar to every gentle man present, namely to take into consideration, in arranging the surplus at the disposition of the Minister, the claims of agriculture. That was not a new motion—it had been brought before the House before. The motion had been in troduced before. It was introduced when the Gentlemen who now sit on this side of the House sat on the opposite side—under identical circumstances a similar motion was proposed. Well, what had taken place under circumstances which ought to be some guide to them as to the result of the present motion ? That motion was not triumphant, although it was very nearly so, for it was supported by a powerful opposition, not undistinguished for its power of cohesion.—( Laughter.) In 18.36 a powerful Opposition wished to try a fall with not a feeble, but, at the same time, not a confident Government— ( Laughter)—and they selected this motion as the battle field on which the power of parties was to be tested. That motion was proposed by a Noble Friend of his, now a Member of the other House of Parliament, but who waa then Member for Buckinghamshire ; and though it was a discussion of not any great length, it was distinguished by an interesting and able speech from the Hon. Member for Dumfries. There was a division—a division which did not shake the Government to its centre, but which at least made it tremble.—( Laughter. ) There was, in 1836, a majority of above thirty in favour of the administration on a vital question—a question of confidence. The motion was identical in its phraseology—so identical, that he should have thought the Hon. Member for Somerset, feeling that he had some necessity of having re course to successful tactics—(Laughter)—hail referred to au thority on this occasion, and determined to bring forward a mo tion which came recommended not only by numbers, hut by distinguished names.—( Hear, hear.) Looking to those lists embalmed in those record. to which they !all repaired— ( Laughter)—he then read the names of those who voted with his Noble Friend, and judging from that, he thought that the Hon. Member for Somerset must have not only equal success but greater success on this occasion, for this was a Conservative House of Commons, and that was a Whig one.—(Loud cheers Nowand laughter.) he would tell the Hon. Member for Somerset, on whom he might rely for support. There was the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland, who voted for an identical motion under similar circumstances.—( Hear, hear.) He knew that Right Hon. Gentleman too well to doubt that he would not vote the same way to-night.—( Hear, hear, and much laughter. ) There was then a surplus, and the agricultural interest came forward, and said, " Are we not to be considered ?" The Right Hon. Gentleman said they ought to be considered, and he was not surprised at it—( Hear, hear, and laughter)—for the Right Hon. Gentleman was always a friend to agriculture. He remembered having had the honour of meeting the Right Hon. Gentleman in presence of his constituents, and he could not forget the occurrence, for the Noble Lord presided with whom he had voted in 1836.—( Hear, hear.) He remembered the speech the Right Hon. Gentleman made under those cir cumstances. They were dreary moments—(Laughter)—for they were then in a position when there was no chance for power unless they were carried forward by the agricultural cry.—(Loud cheers.) He knew the constituency of Bucking ham, and he knew that they were so satisfied with their accomplished representative—( Laughter)—that if they were content with his sympathy in opposition, they would be sure that in the Government they would have a friend on whom they could rely.—(Laughter and cheers.) Could the electors of Buckingham for a moment suppose that the Right Hon. Gentleman, who in 1836 voted for a simple resolu tion, and later than 1836 voted for a motion similar to the present—that the Right Honourable Gentleman would vote against a motion similar to the one he supported in 1836? Of course they could not, and of course he would not.— ( Laughter and cheers.) The Noble person who presided over the dinner could not imagine any such thing, for when he found that the policy of the Cabinet was opposed to the prin ciples which he held, he quitted it at once.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) They might therefore count upon the support of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland. lie did not think they could despair of the Hon. President of the Board of Trade.—(Laughter, and cries of " hear, hear.") He supported a motion of the kind under similar circum stances. —( Renewed cries of " Hear, hear," and laughter,) There was an odd rumour lately about certain opinions which the electors of Stamford held, and the mode in which they gave vent to them.—( Great laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade was now Member for Stamford, and must, he had no doubt, in accordance with the views he entertained in 1836, consider that in a surplus budget a g riculture had a right to be con sidered.—(Hear, hear, and renewed laughter.) He had no doubt, he repeated, but the Vice-President of the Board of ' Trade would vote now as he voted then.—(Loud cries of " hear, hear," and great cheering from the Opposition.) He thought the Noble Lord was a Member of the Cabinet. He meant the Member for South Nottinghamshire. He would not forget the course he then took, and now vote as he had voted before.—( Cries of " Hear, hear," cheers, and laughter.) If he considered then the claims of the agricultural interest, as a member of the Government he would not fail to remember that interest.—( Hear, hear.) Might he go further ? He believed some of the Lords of the Treasury—( Hear, hear) —amongst others the Clerk of the Board of Ordnance (who took so much interest in agriculture that it prevented him from forgetting him) voted for the motion.—( Hear, hear.) So you see how many votes (said the Hon. Member, facetiously) my Hon. Friend the Member for Somersetshire can count upon, although he seemed to forget them when he made his speech. —(hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) No doubt all the constituencies from Buckingham and Chippenham would be doubly grateful for being so well misrepresented.—(Great laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) The Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government gave, on the occasion referred to, a contrary opinion.—( Hear, hear.) He would be very sorry to make a statement in any way erroneous, and, therefore, he would distinctly state that the Right Hon. Gentleman on that occasion acted In a different manner from most of those who sat on the same side of the House with him. No, the Right Hon. Gentleman did not vote for that motion—he went into the Whig lobby alone— left his party, and voted against the notion. The Right Hon. Gentleman behaved throughout in the most handsome manner. (Rears of laughter.) He expressed his annoyance, however, at the indiscreet conduct of his party against the Minister of the day.—( Hera hear, and cheers from the Opposition.) He did not rise in his place and read them a lecture—( Hear, hear)—and he did not say, although they had gone into a different lobby from their leaders, " You are in opinion rebellious."—(Loud cries of " Hear," and great cheering from the Opposition.) The Right Ho nourable Gentleman having preserved his consistency still kept on the very best terms with his party.—(Great laughter. ) That was the state of the case and the House must recollect it. —( Hear, hear.) He had no doubt that the Right Honourable Baronet, following the precedent he had then set, would give the same latitude to his supporters as he did then.—(lronical cries of " Hear, hear.") lie might quote Hansard in support of what he had gated, but the facts must be fresh in the recol lection of every body. This was " sticking to the question," as his Hon. Friend said.—( Hear, hear, and great laughter.) Did his Hon. Friends around him view the conduct of the Right Hon. Gentleman in the same light as he did ? Well, if they did, and if their constituencies were satisfied, they should not grumble—their conduct was quite unjustifiable.—( Laughter anti cries of " hear.") The Right Hon. Baronet had done more for agriculture than any Minister of this country had done for a quarter of a century before. That was his (Mr. Ce'israell's) solemn opinion, and though he sometimes came into momen tary collision with the Treasury bench, he felt butod t<, make thiq statement. lie was prepared to mintain that opinion.— , ( Hear, hear.) On the meeting of Parliament the Right lion. Gentleman reconstructed his Cabinet, and left out the Minister of Trade.—( Hear, hear.) There was a great complaint to the farmers of this country !—( Laughter, and Hear, hear.) The agricultural Members went to the Right Hon. Baronet complaining of the coming tariff—murmuring against the Canada Corn Bill, but now they must be perfectly reconciled. Now the agriculturist must feel perfectly secure.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) Well, now it was a decided demonstra tion.—( Great laughter.) But it would not do well to com pare the conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet when in op position and when in power. It was the old story— they must not contrast too much the hour of courtship with the moment of possession. —(Great cheering and laughter from both sides of the House.) There was a strangeness in the conduct of the Right Hon. Gentleman. The Right Hon. Gentleman's protection speech was the best which could be heard any where. It was a great thing to see the Right Hen. Baronet rise, and hear him talk about the leaders of the gentlemen of England being in possession of the confidence of the Sovereign.— ( Great laughter and cheers.) They did not now hear much of the " Gentlemen of England."—(Heer, hear, rene.ved cheering and laughter ) What of that ? they had the pleasures of memory—( Hear, hear, and great laughter)—the charms of reminiscence—they were his first love, and though he may not kneel to them now, as in the hour of passion. still they would recal the past, and nothing in his mind was more unwise and unseemly ,han a tone of recrimination and reproach.—( Great laughter and cheering.) What was the use of it ? In all eases, he believed, when the object had ceased to charm, it was in rain appeal to the feeliugs.— ( Loud and pralonged cheering.) The Right Hon. Baronet, like any gallant, endeavoured to sooth, and pacify, and keep things quiet, but it was useless. The Right I lonourab'e Baronet maintained a tone of arrogant silence and haughty frigidity towards the advances of the county Members, and if they knew anything of human nature, they would Wee the hint, but they went on—he advised them to halt, but they would still go on.— ( Laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman would not say one word the more for it, but he did say he wou!d have no whin ing there.—(lmmense laughter and cheers.) Now, if that were not the case of the great agricultural intere:t, why should it be treated differently from any other beauty, ehhough she was a deluded one.—( Great laughter and cheers.) They had been convinced at the catastrophe. Protection was now in the same condition as Protestantism in 18.27 , .—( Hear, hear, and great laughter.) For his part, if they were to have free trade, he would sooner, with Honourable Gentle men opposite, support that question, when emanating from the honesty and genius of :the Honourable Member for Stockport, then when proposed by any one, however versed and skilful in Parliamentary manoeuvring, who had tampered with the generous confidence of a great people and a great party.—( Hear, hear, and great cheering. ) For him self he could not say what might be the result. (The Hon. Gentleman 'concluded with these words)—Dissolve the Parj liament if you like, and appeal to the people, who, I believe, mistrust you. For me, at least, I take this opportunity of ex • pressing my opinion thus publicly, that I believe a Conserva tive Government is an organised hyprocrisy.—( Loud and pre longed cheers, which lasted for several minutes.) Mr. DARBY said that he did not think the Government would feel that this attack was of such severe consequence as the Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down seemed to think. The Honourable Gentleman seamed conceive that the Government which he had formerly supported but which he now opposed, were bound to carry out all the suppositions which he conceived to be necessary to the welfare of the particular interest which he espoused.—( Hear, and laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman seemed to have coalesced not only with the Whigs but with the Radicals themselves. The Hon. Gentleman had accused his present opponents with having caught the Whirs bathing, and of having taken their clothes, but he (Mr. D'lsraeli) fancied that not only had the Right Hon. Baronet caught the Whigs bathing, but that he also desired to trade in their old clothes.—( Expressions of dissent. ) Well, if he (Mr. Darby) were attacked, he felt that he had a right to defend himself. The Ho nourable Gentleman seemed to ba an advocate for a free trade in corn. It was undoubtedly the case, that when the present Ministry came into office they found the agricultu ral interest in a difficult position. This was the effect of the cleverness of the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London in financial affairs. The Noble Lord had brought the country into this position, and the consequence had been that the Canadian Corn Bill had been passed. It was the Noble Lord who had brought the country to this pass, and it became the bounden duty of the Government to restore the protection which they had hitherto enjoyed to the agricultural class; and he must say, that those taunts of the Noble Lord were alike uncalled for and unnecessary. When the Canadian Corn Bill was passed, there was undoubtedly a supposition that the pro tection that had hitherto been enjoyed should be preserved. That there was distress in the agricultural districts was un doubted, and he believed that, if the facts were made oat, the only effectual remedy for the mischief would be an alteration of the corn-laws. But at the present moment, he must say, that if the country was labouring under distress, it was the bounden duty of that House to remove it. He had never entertained a doubt of the justice of the measure, and when the Hon. Gen tleman began to make these attacks, he (Mr. Darby) thought that he ought to have good grounds for making them ; and when he saw that th e p r i nc ipl e o f f ree t ra d e was to be advocated, he must say that he would rather see it promu'esated by the Hon. Member for Stockport rather than by the Hon. Gentle man at the head of her Majesty's Government.—( Hear, hear. ) Ile must candidly acknowlege that he was sent into that House with a view to support that protection which the agriculturists of this country had hitherto enjoyed, and he must say that, in the course which he had hitherto pursued, he had nothing to regret, and if the same circumstances were again to arise, he must say that he should act precisely in the same way again— (Divide, divide)—and if those measures were to obviate is e protection which the agriculturists desired, and which their interests needed, ha should feel obliged to vote with the Hon. Member for Somersetshire. The farmers had been called upon to reduce their expenditure, but he believed that this was an utter impossibility. —( Divide, divide. ) Sir CHARLES BURRELL (who rose amidst much con fusion) said that he would not detain the House one moment. He saw the state of excitement which the House evinced, and he only rose for the purpose of saying that the notice of the lion. Membsr for Somersetshire was good in itself, and well worthy of attention, and if it led to a modification which had of late been introduced, it would lie advisable not only with regard to corn, but cattle.—( Divide, divide. ) Mr. G. SMY i'llE said that he had listened with surprise if not with admiration, to the cru-hing reply made by the lion. and Learned Member for East Sussex to the speech of his Hon. Friend the Alembor for Shrewsbury—the speech not de livered that night, but that delivered a fortnight ago.—( Hear. hear.) He was not unjustifiable, and he trusted that some lion. Gentlemen at least might believe that he rose not without some cause to answer the speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for East Sussex, the invective, and the philippic which he had directed against his lion. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury. It was far from his intention to interfere in the schism that appeared in the House that evening. It was far from his intention to address a speech to that House in the spirit of the Hon. Member for Sussex, and continued in the same spirit in the speech also of the Hon. Member for East Sussex ; but he would say this to the Hon. Members, that it was not by raking among preceding speeches—not by going back fifteen years, that he could entertain or form any opinion of his Hon. Friend.—(" Hear," from Col. Peel.) The Hon. and Gallant Colonel, the Clerk to the Beard of Ordnance, had done him the honour to cheer a speech of his. If the Hon. and Gal lant Colonel would call to his mind the vote he gave on the Irish Registration Bill, and supposing that question coming on again to-mo:row, how would his vote then agree with that he had formerly given? Or, supposing that the Maynooth ques tion were discussed, how would the Hon. and Gallant Colonel vote on that question? lie would tell the Hon. and Learned Member for East Sussex, that this question, if it were not solved by the great minds that the Hon. Member for Wolver hampton made so happy an allusion to—if this question were not solved by them, he (Mr. Smythe) might be permitted to suggest to the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, that his great parochial mind—(Loud laughter)—would never solve the national difficulties.—( Continued laughter. ) Differing, as he probably would, from his lion. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury, on the vote he would come to that evening, he could not withhold his testimony that the effect of the speech of his Hon. Friend would be more likely to be pro ductive of public good than the motion of the lion. Member for East Sussex would be. His motion resulted in the bringing the state of the country before the House, but he (Mr. Smythe) thought it would be productive of mote good to bring the state of the House before the country.—( Cheers. ) Mr. P. BORTHWICK rose amid a mingled shout of " Speak out," " Go on," and " Divide, eivide.") The lion. Member made several attempts to be heard, but the cries and shouts from all parts of the House completely drowned every sentence. When the lion. Member could be listened to, he said,—What was the question before the House ?—( Laughter, cheers, and cries of " Divide.") It was unseemly to see one section of the House rising against another section, but he protested against this question being brought before the House in such an unconnected manner.—(Laughter and cheers, which interrupted the lion. Member, and after a futile effort to ad dress a few words to the House, he sat down. ) Sir ROBERT PEEL said he wished in a few sentences to state the grounds why he felt it to be his duty to offer his op position to the motion which had been made. He opposed the motion because the object of it was merely to transfer a certain sum from the county-rate to the consolidated fund. In his opinion they would be practising delusion upon the agricultural interest—(Heer, hear )_impressing them with a belief that it could in any material degree bear upon their interests. His Hon. Friend stated that the total amount which lie believed his motion would produce was about 260,0001., to be transferred from one fund to another. It was not an absolute remission of taxation falling upon agri culturists, but merely to transfer that amount from the county rate to the consolidated fund. Now, supposing in that way they gave absolute relief of 260,000/. to the agriculturists, they would have to bear it in another way. It would only be relieving them from one species of taxation to take up an ,titer. But his Honourable Friend forgot that he confined this relief to the agriculturists of Eng land. Why was it not to be extended to Scotland and Ireland? Consequently the whole would be a charge of perhaps 300,0001. or 400,0001., which must be placed on the Consolidated Fund. Now he had a strong impression that if placed on the Consoli dated Fund the check on the expenditure would be much less efficient than it was at present. The Government, acting through its officers, probably newly appointed, who would have much smaller means of exercising their vigilance than the psr ties who were appointed to superintend this charge. To oh , tain, therefore, relief from England for 260,0001. of direct taxation in the county-rate there must be a transfer to the consolidated fund, probably of nearly 400,000/., with prospect of a continued increase, to be placed upon that fund. But who contributed to that fund ? The consolidated fund meant nothing more nor less than the taxation of the country, to which the agricultural interest was liable. His Hon. Friend said that the taxation now placed on the county rate would be relief to the lower class of farmers and peasants. But did not the lower class of farmers and peasants contribute by indi rect taxation to the consolidated fund? Consequently, it would be merely commutation of taxation, and his belief was that the agricultural interest which his Hon. Friend intended to benefit would derive no substantial benefit from that measure. His Hon. Friend, however, professed that to be his object. lie ( Sir Robert Peel) rather thought that his lion. Friend would receive support from others who meant their acquiescence in this motion to be tantamount to a condemnation of the finan cial proposals made by her Majesty's Government. Because he found in a circular which had been issued from the Protec tion Agricultural Society, that gentlemen had been expressly invited to vote for this motion upon the ground that the re mission of taxation which they proposed was not favourable to the agricultural interest, and that the motion of his Hon. Friend ought to be acquiesced in, for the express purpose of effec tually resisting the further progress in measures of free-trade If, therefore, that were the ground upon which his lion. Friend brought forward his motion, or others were inclined to support it, still less was it in his power to acquiesce in the moa tion of his lion. Friend. Ile had had placed in his hand the following letter, addressed to a Member of that House, solicit ing his support to the motion of his Hon. Friend upon rather different grounds from that which lie stated it. This letter was from a local Protection Society, addressed by the secretary of the society to a Member of Parliament, and was to this effect:—r' I am directed to inform you that a communication from the Central Protection So ciety was laid before the Managing Committee yesterday, of which the following is a copy :--` It is the opinion of this Committee, that the retni aims of the several duties which Robert Peel proposes to al!eliah4l; t i e remission ^` • taxation, %sill tend neateriedly to lessen the clunk— ent lebenr, arid reduce the pri c e • ~m of agricultural many of the numerous pro ( auctions of the •-.' C‘atural The principle upon whirls agri protection is based, is to maintain protection for British agriculture, not less than that which existed at its formation.' This Committee, therefore, recurs). mends that provincial Protection Societies urge, by deputation or otherwise., their local representatives in Parliament to sup port Mr. Miles's motion, and use their best endeavours to re• sist these free-trade measures." That appeal, therefore, wea clearly made, not for the purpose of gaining a small remission of local taxation to the amount of 2e0,000/. to the agricultural interest, but it was made expressly for the purpose of resisting the further progress of those measures which it was the inten tion of her Majesty's Government to introduce, and to imply censure and condemnation on their financial policy. Whatever, therefore, was the ground for supporting this motion, it was clearly out of his power to acquiesce in it.---( Hear, hear. ) The House consented, by a large majority, to the continuance of a tax of 5,200,000/. on the income and property of the coup. try. The coxtinuance of that tax would not have been con, : . sented to by the House and the public, if it hail not been accom panied by a declaration of Government in respect to its finan cial policy.-( Hear, hear.) He conceived, therefore, that if he were to acquiesce in this proposal-foreseeing that it would lead to an abandonment of the policy previously declared-he should be guilty of gross bad faith.-( Hear.) It was quite clear that if he abandoned 400,0001. of revenue, he could not follow out the principles which lie laid down in proposing the income-tax without a deficit to that amount.-( Hear, hear.) The motion was, therefore, to be regarded as a vote of censure upon the financial policy of the Government.-( Hear, hear.) Ile would not say that he at all regretted the course of policy which the present Government had adopted. Let. the House look to the condition of the country is hen he came into office.-( Hear. ) He well recollected the statements which were made as to the distressed condition of the manufacturers.-( Hear, hear.) He well remembered the complaints as to the stete of commerce ; and, above all, as to the condition of the labourers in the manu facturing districts.-( Hear.) He remembered hearing, from the Hon. Member for Sheffield, tha., in that town, there were 3,000 houses uninhabited. He well remembered the touching accounts which were given of the condition of thu labouring classes, who were represented as struggling to main tain an unwholesome subsistence upon the flesh of animals dead from disease.-( Hear, hear.) He remembered the statement from Paisley, that in that town, in 1841, twelve thousand per sons -and at one ti ee seventeen thousand persons who rose in the morning without knowing how to obtain subsistence for the day, except from voluntary anti casual charity.-( Hear, hear.) In assuming office he did not think that he was put in to support the partial interest of any class--(Cheers)-but he consider, d that it was the duty of the Government to take a comprehensive view of the interest of all classes-(Cheers)-.. and he had now proved that it was the interest of all— and especially of the agricultural class-that manufactures and commerce should be re-animated and revived.-( Cheers. ) It was easy to talk of the effect which the importation of 30ta r 400 swine might have upon the agriculturist. But let the House look to what had been the effect of the measures of the Government upon the condition of the manufacturers.-( Hear, hear.) They were now told that the improvement was only the effect of the season, or that the remission of five millions of taxes had had nothing to do with the revival of industry. But they would recollect when they were told that confidence in better seasons would be wholly useless-that there was no hope for the revival of manufactures and commerce-that all was delusion-if they did not take the food of other countries itt. • exchange for the manufactures of this.-( Bear.) The improve. ment, however, had taken place. He would now read some of the circulars which had been given out. from the manufacturing dis ' tricts in the present year. (The Right Hon. Baronet then read a circular dated January 1, 1845, from a manufacturing house in the north, setting forth the great improvement which had taken plae e in manufactures and commerce in consequence of the relief of the burthens c.f industry and the opening of new markets.) Such was the account at the commencement of the present year.-( Hear, hear.) Let them contrast that with the statements made as to the condition of commerce and agriculture in the year 1842.-( clear, hear.) Now let them observe the bearing this had upon agriculture; and it was a remarkable circumstance as showing the increased prosperity of the country. In 1844 the quantity of wheat used in this country was 2,128,000 qua r t ers , b e i ng no less than 047,000 quar ters more than in the pre ce di ng year, 184:3, and the wholeof th a t consumption was of whe a t t h e produce of this country. The importation of Foreign wheat in the latter year was precisely the same as that of th e preceding year ; in speaking, therefore, of the improved coudition of the labourer, it must be remembered, Octh there was an increase in the consumption of wheat in one year, to the amount of 27,000 quarters so that it might be fairly said, that the measures of the present Go vernment had tended to increase manufactures and he had already given them conclusive proof that there had been a correspond ing benefit to agriculture.-( Hear, hear.) Ile opposed this motion in 1645 upon precisely the same grounds as he did in 1836, he then thought it held (eat hopes of relief which could not be carried into effect. He, at that time, differed from those with whom he was acting, but he said then, as he said now, there was no tax mainly bearing on agriculture except the malt tax, that it was in their power to relieve, and he thought that all would agree with him that the taxes they proposed to remove were far the best. The question of agricultural pro tection would shortly be raised, and upon that occasion be should be prepared to say why the corn-laws should not be abo lished ; at the same time, he must say that he thought it was for the interests of tl• c country that they should relax their re strictive laws with great caution. He said this for the advan tage of all classes d the community, he believed the system of prohibition and extreme protection 'to Ise wrong ; he did not support the protection of the \Vest India interests in a commer cial point of view, but he lo ked at the length it had existed, and the obligation they were under to maintain their colo nial empire, added to which he believed the sudden removal of protection was an injury-( Hear).- not only to the West Indies, but to trade in general. They had been taunted on one side of the House with acting inju riously to the agricultural, and on the other side with being mere instruments of the agricultural patty. In spite of alt this he would say, that it was their intention to continue in the course they were pursuing, not yielding to one party or the other. They had attempted gradually to abolish prohibitory duties, and to relax extreme protection. The Hon. Gentle man the Member for Shrewsbury had repeated an accusation that he had made on a former occasion. Ile should not enter into any personal enntroversy.-( Hear, hear.) But when be proposed the tariff in 1842, and when he was charged by Hon ourable Members for doing so, lie found that an Hon ourable Member got up in his place, and asserted that the change had been made without due examination. He found the same Hon. Gentleman also stating, that the con duct pursued by the Right Hon Baronet was in exact har mony, in perfect consistency, with the principles in reference to free trade laid down by Mr. Pitt ; and his reason for laying down thus much, was to refute the accusations which had been brought against the present Government, that in order to get into, and being in, to keep in office, they had changed their policy on this question. Those sentiments were attributed to Mr. D'lsraeli.-( Cheers and laughter.) He held in the same estimation the panegyric and the attack ; but he certainly had been surprised, remembering the defence of the Hon. Gentleman, that the accusation which he had made 'that night should proceed from him.-( Cheers. ) Mr. BANKES said, as he understoed that his Right Hon.; Friend proposed to postpone the consideration of one remission of taxation until after Easter, be should delay until that period what he had to say in reference to the agricultural interest. Captain HARRIS expressed his regret at the recriminatory character which the debate had assumed. The Right Hon. Baronet had, however, admitted that there were special burdens pressing upon agriculture, and he was now called upon to make a relaxation in its favour. He hoped that those whet were connected in that interest would combine to secure the object. v 3lr. PLUMPTRE wished very briefly to state his revon for objecting to the motion of th e H on . M em b er f or S omer . setshire. He thought that neither the time nor manner wero such as to call upon him for support ; and fcr that reason het must withheld his assent. The House then divided, when the numbers were— For the resolution .. .....•.. .................. 78 Against Majority against the resolution —.136 CUSTOMS' DUTIES ACT. The House then went into Committee on the Customs' Duties Act. When the item of " Basket rods" had been react out as one of three on which the duties was prepared to be re. mitted, . , Mr. M. MILNES said if the duty should be remitted or this article, great injury would be done to the growers of them' in this country. Mr. FERItAND agreed with the lion. Member. Sir R. PEEL could not see shy exception should be taken to this more than to other articles of the same claso, which hat just been read.—The subject then dropped. Upon the item of " Bones" being read, Capt. PECII ELL expressed a hope that these foreign bones would not be allowed to be ground or crushed in workhouses. On the item of" furniture wood" being read, Mr. C. BULLER said there had been lately several new' kinds of wood, for the manufacture of furniture, introduced into this country. These were not enumerated in the new tariff. and he wished to know whether they would be a.imitted under the general description. lie referred in particular to Ceylon, woods, and several which came from New Zealand. Sir GEO. CLERK was understood to say that these woods would not be excluded. Mr. L ABOUCHERE said there were many woods grow in the colonies which might be used for furniture woods, whirls were now excluded by the duties imposed on them. Mr. FIUME suggested that all woods used for furniture should be admitted. Sir GEO. CLERK said this would admit all kinds of wood without duty. Mr. HUTT said he would tomorrow deliver a list of Neer Zealand woods to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Mr. C. BULLER said this would be unjust to Ceylon. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it sr33 absolutely necessary to enumerat e th e f urn i ture woods. Mr. HUME said they might enumerate the woods on which duty was to be paid, and admit all others free. Mr. HAVES 'rade a similar suggestion. The , CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if any 'new wood should be imported, it would be in the dis. cretion of the Treasury to admit it free of duty. Mr. C. BULLER said it was proposed to admit olive woodl free, but not big wood. After a few words, the items wore agreed to. Upon certain articles relating to food being proposed, Mr. EWART sa id t h a t h e would postpone his motion rata.. tive to butter and cheese, to the duty on which he was de. cidedly opposed, till the third resolution. Mr. MILES wished the House to defer the consideration° those articles which were calculated to trench on the protective interests of the British agriculturist. They might take „th articles which were not so opposed on that night, and defer the others for discussion. One article he should object to would he grease and another oil when they came to them. Sir G. CLERK said that the grease and lard which would be so imparted would be unfit for food and could not compete with the agricultural produce. Mr. BF IGHT said the Hon. Member for Somersetshire had forgotten chalk.—(Great laughter.) Grease and butter were admitted, because they were unfit for food. It wag rather a singular circumstance that the articles to be impanel free, should have the extraordinary quality of being unfit for food. He did not think that the House was called on to legis late for food to dogs, when human beings were held in such slight regard. Mr. MILES —If this proposition is agreed to, 1 shall rsanya the adjournment of the House. Mr. B. ESCOTT.—If the Hon. Member for Somerset. shire wishes to bring agriculture into utter contempt, this i 3 the way to do it. Mr. MILES.-1 am not to be told how to do my duty. I am not to be deterred by the taunts and sneers of the Hon. Member. He might know my character well enough to know, that if lam determined on a thing I will do it. I have thrown out a proposition which shows me wish cot to pu% any iinpedimeat in 5140 way of the tariff. Sir 11. PEEL was not prepared to press particular articiej against the wishes o f an y Gentl e man in that louse. Mr. B. ESCOTT explained. Several items having been gone through, The House resumed, the Chairan reported progress, amt obtained leave to sit again on Wedn m esday. The House then went into Committee of Supply, wheraiseve. sal estimates were agree(' to. The CUAARMAN r! - ported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on W:,:wesday. _ 7) 7., other orders of the day were Shea disposed of, and the douse adjourned at a Quarter past Two o'clock. GRE.:NWICII FAIR —Great preparations are being made at Greenwich for the holiday folks during the Eastr week, notwith:Aandiug the continual severity of the weather.