The Sun. — London, England, 1845-04-19 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, April 18. _ 1 Lordships met at Five o'clock. Tle Earl of BANDON presented s everal petitions from t he county of Cork against the Maynooth grant and the system of education in Ireland. The Duke of RUTLAND presented a petition from the farmers of the county of Leicester, praying to be relieved from the present agricultural distress. The Noble Duke also pre sented a petition from the Malvern Agricultural Society, pray ing for a repeal of the malt-tax, and several petitions from the county of Leicester against any further grant to Maynooth. Lord CAMPBELL presented several petitions against any further grant to Mayncoth, and a petition in favour of tem. perince. The Bishop of DURHAM presented several petitions against the grant to Maynooth. The Right Rev. Prelate said he did not share in the apprehensions expressed by the petitioners. He did not think the petitioners understood the correct bearing of the question, but he was satisfied great credit was due to the Government for introducing this measure. The Duke of CLEVELAND, and the Earl of Weext.ow, aiao presented similar petitions against the grant. SEES OF ST. ASAPH AND BANGOR. Earl POWIS said that last year he had introduced a Bill for preventing the union between St. Asaph and Bang r, bet after the second reading, under the advice of friends, he had withdrawn it, in consequence of an intimation that her Maiesty's Governnsent would oppose its farther progress. He had this year introduced another Bill for the same purpose, and it stood for the second reading on Tuesday, the 29th. The question he wished to ask was, whe ther it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to inter pose, by preventing her Majesty's assent, and hinder the Bill fri m passing? The Duke of WELLINGTON, in answer to the question of the Noble Lord, said that Ministers had not received her Majesty's permission to state that she would give her con sent to this Bill. Earl POWIS said that on Monday he would state what course he intended to pursue. His course would be different, in consequence of the intimation which their Lordships had . jost heard, to what he had intended, but on Monday he should be able to state what he thought it best to do. In the mean tens he would remind their Lordships that the second reading stood for Tuesday, the 29th. The Duke of RICHMOND presented several petitions against the union of the Sees of St. Asaph and Bangor, and expressed his regret that Ministers were opposed to the Bill of the Noble Lord. MAYN'OOTEI. Petitions were presented against the grant to Mavnooth by the Marquis of BNEA DA LBA NE from Glasgow and several other towns in :lecithin& and also from a great number of the con gregations of the Free Church in that country. Petitions were also presented against the grant by the Duke of Mete 0105111. from Elgin, Matlock, Inverness, and several other places. IMPROVEMENT OF LAND IN IRELAND. The Duke of RICHMOND moved for a return of the num ber of applications that had been made to the Court of Chan cery in Ireland for grants tor the improvement of lands under the 3d and 4th of Victoria.—The return was granted. BANKING SYSTEM OF SCOTLAND. The Duke of RICHMOND presented several petitions against any alteration in the present system. RAILWAYS. Lord BROUGHAM, in moving the printing of the standing orders which he had brought under the notice of the house, said that he wished, as a warning to railway director and cempanies, to state a case of gross recklessnes - , with which, after they had obtained their Bill, the directors of a company had ruined their own project, and lost the money of their shareholders. He should state neither names or places. The railway was connected with one of the largest railways in Eng land, and the facts were these. An eieate had been bequeathed to a very learned and excellent lawyer as a trustee. Th,. railway possessed the power of constructing works, and entering upon lands wish very inadequate compensation to the owners in all the parishes named in the schedules. They thought proper to make a deviation into another parish, which was not in the schedule. As the works proceeded, it was thought necessary to mike a deviation into another parish that was not named in the schedule. The agents of the com pany went to the occupiers of the land, and, offering them four times its value, induced them to give their consent to the ee,viation. But those persons who gave their consent were merely tenants-- for life, and they had ne power to give it. The land was vested in the learned person I have named, who was the trustee or certain infants, and he consequently could not consent without an Act of Parliament. The company ought to have stopped for another year, but it would not snit them, and they went on and finished the railway. Now he need not remind their Lordships of the situation in which the poor shareholders were placed by .the act of their Board of Directors. They had invested their capital in this railway, never dreaming that such an act of plunder would be com mitted by the directors, mere especially as those directors had the assistance, no doubt, of a solicitor and standing counsel. This was a new form of risk which railway speculators did not anticipate, and he trusted this warning would prevent private individuals, who scraped together a little money, from risking it in these gambling speculations. NEW ZEALAND. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE wished to put a question to his Noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies, relative to a petition of which he had given notice yesterday. The peti tion was from the Legislative Council of New South Wales, and complained of certain grievances with respect to the dis posal of land in that colony. He understood that it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to lay some papers hearing upon this subject before the other House of Parliament; if such were the case, he thought he would be better doing his deity to the petitioners to delay presenting the petition until those papers were before the country. Lord STANLEY had no hesitation in saying that the sub ject was one of great importance. He had received informa tion upon it from the Governor of the Colony of New Zea land, and in a few days it would be laid before the other House. He thought it would be advisable that if they were to have any discussion on the subject it had, better be delayed until that in formation was before their Lordships. Lord CLANRICARDE said that under those circumstances he would withdraw hie motion for the present. THI-7. FRANCHISE. Lord CLANRICARDE brought in a Bill for extending the elective franchise to persons who paid the income-tax. The object of the Bill was to extend it to annuitants, retired trades men, professional men, and others rending in furnished lodgings. The provisions of the Bill would be extended alike to cities, boroughs, and counties. He thought it would be better to reserve the discussion to the second stage, and he would simply move that the Bill be now read a first time. Lord STANLEY had no objection to allow the Bill to be read a first time, and concurred with the Noble Marquis in the delaying of the discussion for the present. He hoped, however, that his consenting to the first reading as a matter of course, would not lead the Noble Marquis to imagine that he assented to its novel principle. Perhaps the Noble Lord would say whether he intended the Bill to be permanent or not. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said he did not, if the income-tax would be discontinued hereafter. He had, however, a conviction in his mind that the income-tax was intended to be a permanent measure. The Bill was then read a first time. CORONERS' INQUESTS. The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL moved for a return of the number of inquests which had been held upon children within the last twelve months ; and complained that the returns for the last eleven years were very defective, and in one case the Coroner had refused to make any return at all. The Duke of RICHMOND thought his Noble Friend was alluding to Irish Coroner!, but he might apply to the Clerk of the Peace for the county for the return. The Noble Lord had better move for a return from the Coroner himself, and if he refused, their Lordships would let the gentleman know that they possessed plenty of lower to compel his attend ance, and to make him pay his expenses. There were many abuses in the system of Coroners, and he thought that it. would be better to revise it altogether. With respect to the Coroners of England generally, he thought them a very highly respectable body. Lord CAMPBELL thought the House was bound to take this case into consideration, and he would suggest to the Noble Lord that he should move that the Coroner should forthwith make a return. The Earl of WICKLOW concurred in the suggestion of the Noble Lord. Lord DENISON thought that they had better not enter into any censure of this gentleman until they were in posses sion of the facts of the case. Lord CAMPBELL thought that this gentleman had al ready refused, and that he should be at once called upon by the House. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the rule when a return was ordered by the House of Lords was, to send to the Secretary of State, and he applied to the person who, in his judgment, ought to make it. After a conversation, in which Lord DENMAN and the Marquis of LANSDOWNE took part, The Earl of MOUNTCA sLi EL stated that his object was to bring the circumstances of the case under the notice of their Lordships. The Marquis of NORM ANBY suggested, that the notice which had then been taken of the matter would be sufficient for the purpose. Lord WHARNCLIFFE suggested, that the Noble Earl (the Earl of Mountcashel) should give notice, that he would call the attention of the House to the matter on Monday, and he (Lord Wharncliffe) would in the meantime communicate with the Secretary of State, and ascertain what the facts of the case really were. The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL would assent to the propo sition of hi! Noble Friend. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought that this session could not pass without some alteration of the poor-law in Ireland. BASTARDY BILL. 11th Bill was read a third time and passed. RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION BILL The report on this Bill was brought up, when The Earl of DALHOUSIE proposed several clauses as riders to the Bill, for regulating the appropriation of private roar's, and for apportioning the compensation to he made for the appropriation of them by railway companies, which were adopted. The same clauses were also adopted in the Bill for Scotland. On the motion of the Earl of DALHOUSIE, those Bills were ordered to be printed and read a third time on Tuesday neat. RELIGIOUS GRANTS IN THE COLONIES, Lard MON TEAGLE moved for a return of all the grants nhich had been made for religiou s purposes in the colonies, during the years 1840, 1841, and 1842, and the different sects to which they had been made. The return was granted, and the House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 18 The SYZAg ER took the Chair at Four o'clock. Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE moved that the agents for the t-rrrey and Sussex Roads (Sunday toll) Bill be allowed to de. posit a filled-up Bill, signed by them in the Private Bill-office; that the Committee on such Bill be revived, and have leave to sit and proceed on Monday next , —Agreed to. Mr. TUFNELL moved that the Committee for the Man chester and Salford Waterworks be allowed to sit on Monday next.—Agreed to. WEST YORKSHIRE RAILWAY. Mr. M. AIILNES, and other Hon. Members, presented pe titions against the West Yorkshire Railway. The following Bills were severally read a second time and ordered to be printed. Oxford Mileways, St. Matthew ( Bethnal-green) Rectory, Splad (Clun), Inclosure, Castle Hill (Wexford) Docks, Lyme Regis Improvement, Market, and Waterworks, Dublin Pipe Water, Claughton cum Grange (St. Andrew's) Church, Claughton cum Grange (St. John the Baptist's) Church, Kendal Reervoir, AGRICULTURAL AND COMMERCIAL BANK OF IRELAND. On the motion that the Agricultural and Commercial Bank of Ireland bill be read a second time, Mr. WATSON said that his attention had been drawn to this Bill, and be thought that there were so many objections to it, that he should move that it be read a second time that day six months. The object of this Bill was to wind up the affairs of the Agricultural and Commercial Bank of Ireland, and gave power to the Court of Chancery to make orders, and to act in the affairs of this company with all the efficiency nece . sary for winding up the affairs of the bank. This he conceived ought to be done by a public and not a private Act. Last se,sion an Act was passed for winding up the affairs of public com panies, but that Act empowered the Court of Chan cery to investigate into the manner in which the busi ness of the concern had been carried on ; and if ' there had been any defect or neglect in the conduct of a company which had stopped payment, a report was to he made to the Board of Trade, who had power to adjudicate upon it. In 1842 a similar Act to this had been introduced with 33 clauses, and when the Bill went into Committee all the clauses had been struck out but two. Another was passed in the case of the Imperial sank of Manchester, in which the only power retained by the company was that of suing and being sued, and of winding up their affairs through a public officer. The Act of last session was a good Act, and it was under such an Act as that that he thought the powers sought by this Bill ought to be exercised, and not by a private Act ; and he should therefore move that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL recommended the post ponement of the second reading for a short time, in order to give au opportunity of considering the subject. Mr. WATSON withdrew his amendment, and the Bill was ordered to be read a second time on that day week. Mr. MARTIN presented petitions from the Mayor and Cor. poration of Bristol, against the Exeter Railway Bill ; also peti tions from a Mr. John Parsons and another gentleman, praying to be heard by counsel againt the Bill. Mr. BROTHERTO presented a great number of peti tions against the West Riding Railway Bill. RAILWAY COMMITTEES. Lord G. SOMERSET, on introducing the consideration of the Second Report of the Committee on Railways, moved the first resolution, that counsel should open the proceeditigs in railway measures, hut that they should be debarred the pi i vilege of summing up. The other resolutions were of a gene ral character, and he need not trouble the House with their details. He trusted the House would see no reason to objeet to the measure, and that it would be allowed to pass unani —( Hear, hear.) He had within the last ten years been persecuted, not prosecuted, and if he had net had the means of defence himself, he should have been cast into a gaol, —( Hear, lotar)—and now was ho to be told that he was a bigot. Of all the debates that had teen brought before the House since he had entered it, none of them had ever exhibited so extraordinai y a species of reasoning as that one. The Hon. Member foe Pontefract had enlightened them on this question, and what did h . e say ? He felt in his con science that it was impossible to justrty the Right Hon. Baro net. on any other ground than that of expediency.—( Hear, hear.) Expediency, therefore, was the hatter principle.— ( Hear, hear. ) In fact, in all debates in that House having re- Litton to Ireland, expediency was the rule, and principle was the exception. If Hon. Members believed that this was a safe because a final measure, they would rind themselves mistaken. Mr. O'Connell, in his honest speech in Conciliation- Hall, attributed to agitation the measure which was now be fore the House. He thanked Conciliation-hall for it, and stated that they would take that in receipt, arid wait for what they could further get. Did they recollect the Catholic Emancipation Bill? Did they recollect the agitation for re• peal? He thought they would find that every large concession had paved the way for fresh demands. Another Mem ber had risen, the repr esent alive for Nottin g hamshire (Lord Lincoln). The nerd said that inasmuch as Government had thought fit to ho'd up the cup of bliss to the lips of the Roman Catholics, that House would not be justifl din dashing it to the g round. Were they to be told that they had no right to judge of what was brought before the House by the Prime Mi n ister? Why, in that case, the sooner they went home to their wives and firesides the better. —(Laughter. ) The Prime Minister, in that case, would be a despot, and they would be h is slaves.—( Hear, hear.) Their occupation would be geee.—(Laughter.) lie did not see 'he Right Honourable Baronet in his place, and he had a great objection to speak of any man behind his back. but he had said in that House before that he did not care whe ther the Bight Hon. Baronet er the Noble Lord governed the country. It was a toss up between them.—(Laughter.) But now his opinion was entirely change d. This measure brought forward by the Bight. Hon. Baronet, after he had climbed into power by the avowal of certain principles, looked a, if, without any reason, he turned round upon has friends and sought pro tection from his enemies.--(Hear, hear. ) If a man deceived him (Mr. Munte ) once, he believed he would de ceive him always, no matter were he the Prime Minister or the lowest yotrion in the country, and he would never have confidence in that man again. The Hon. Member for Canterbury stated that by giving a good eduction to the priests they would lose their influence over the people, and that by making the priests above the people would render them treeless. It was said also by a Noble Lord that the Right Hon. Baronet at. the head of tha Government was the best hard at dressing up a cate in that House ; he might have gone further and stared that he was better able to bait a trap than any other Genii( man in the House.—( Laughter.) When he came forward with the property-tax he caught all the Gentlemen at his side of the House, and they complimented him on the measure Which he brought forward. And what did he do now ? Ha consented to conciliate the people, of Ireland with a grant to their clergy, and he baited his trap with education, and he caught all the gentlemen on the Oppo sition side of the House. eeverai gentlemen, told him that, though they ought to vote against the measure from principle, and ridicule it on account of the men by whom it was intro duced, yet they could not oppose it as it was tor educational purposes. That wae the bait, anti it was well placed, for he caught them altogether.—( Laughter. ) The great ques t ion was, if the Irish wanted priests,' why did they not pay for their education? But that was easily answered by them. They said that there was the absentei ism, which drained the country, and they ought not on that account to pay their priests. If their gentry go to ether countries to spend six millions of money per annum, they couch Lot blame them (the English) fur not paying their prieste for them.—(Hear, gear.) What was the real position of Ireland ? Let them look back to the year when the ineorne.tax was introduced. There was at that time ne income-tax hid upon Ireland. A spirit duty and a stamp duty were introduced in its stead, the furrier of which was afterwards taken off. Then they were told that they ought to pay for the support of the priests, be carve the Irish were in need. Could not they subscribe 10,000/. a year fur the repeal ? Could not they subscribe 10,0001. to anything they liked for the sake of agitation ?—( Hear, hear.) Bur, they could not subscribe for the education of the priests. They had ample means for these purposes, and if they wanted the priests etiucated for the sake of educating their poor, let them ply for it. When they educated the Roman Catholic priests, what then were they to do with them? They must pay them ; and when they pent them, how could they pay every other dissenting priest in this country, even down to the merest " ranter." He had heard in the course of the debate a hun dred remarks against the measure, but he had taut braid one single remark in its favour.—( Hear, hear.) It was alleged by Hon. Members that there was a great feeling existing in this country against this measure ; and they were quite right, for such a feeling was generally entertained. There was a great dislike exhibited in Engler d against the Roman Catholic priests, for they made converts wherever they could. He was not a bigot—lee wished to tolerate every reli gion, but he was not an advocate for paying for another reli gion when he thought his own the best. He would allow them to enjoy their own opinions, but he did not like to pay for the religion of other people out of the Consolidated Fund. He did not understand how gentlemen on his side of the House, who formerly voted against religion being paid for out of the Consolidated Fund, could now vote for it.—( Hear.) It was because they were caught in the trap laid by the Right Hon. Baronet which had education for its bait. Ile would conclude his remarks by repeating what he had al ready said, and which he was sorry the Right Hon. Baronet was not present to hear, that he was a very great friend to principle and steadiness, and therefore he was bound on all occasions reasonably to support them ; and if the Government did not act with principle they should go on continually chang ing them until they got a Government which would satisfy the country. Mr. NEVILLE said, that protracted as this debate had been, he was anxious not to let it come to a close without craving the indulgence of the House for a few moments. He could not shut his eyes to the petitions which were nightly poured upon that table from nearly every constituerey in the kingdom ; but as they were an argument one way, so was the absence of petitions from the only two solely Protestant, solely Church of England, and solely educated constituencies the two universities—an argument in the opposite direc t ion. Whenever the Church was in danger, Oxford and Cam bridge were foremost to petition, and he could not but think that had it been so now they would not have remained in the back ground. and he thought it was speaking but the opinions of a majority of the Right Honourable Chancellor of the Ex chequer's constituents, when he said that the conduct of the Hight Hon. Gentleman had not lost him the confidence of those by whom he was so deservedly .honoured and esteemed. He had visited Maynooth, and in bearing testimony to the courtesy he received at the hands of the authorities, he could not but acknowledge the truth of every description he had heard of it, except that of the Right Hen. Member for Perth ( Mr. F. Maule) and his friend Mr. Grant.—( A laugh.) Ile viewed with feelings of pity those dilapidated walls, that scanty library, and the care and prole with which the few works of value contained its it were regarded ; but those feelings were changed into remorse and shame, when he heat d that he was a member of a Legislature which so miserably endowed a Government educational institution, that they wee® forced to send away the . pupils a portion of the year solely from being unable to p r ovide them with the necessaries of life. —( Hear, heer.) Everything about it was meagre. One, and only 000, work of art he remembered to have seen— vit., a marble bust of George 111., beneath which were these words : many Hon. Gentlemen for whom he entertained the highest respect, and at being obliged to differ more especially in opinion with many Members from Ireland. He also felt regret at being compelled to oppose the measure of her Majesty's Go vernment, which he was sure they brought forward with the kindest dispositions towards Ireland.--( Hear.) But, as one of those who were in favour of the voluntary principle, he felt compelled to vote against it. There were two charges brought against those Fersons who, like himself, supported the voluntary principle. They were charged, first, with concurring in the former grant to 3ila)nooth, and in the next place, they were charged with voting for a chimerical project, which they had no chance of carrying (eat. With regard to the first he believed it would be admitted, with out dispute, that a new question now arose, for a permanent endowment by Bill was a very different thing from an annual grant by vote.—( Hear.) It might be in some degree incensistent with the voluntary principle that he had not opposed the grant to Maynooth, but he confessed he felt reluctant. to vote against the grant to Maynooth, out of respect to hi s Roman Catholic brethren, and because that grant had ben estab'ished by the Irish Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) Nor did he think that the second charge was more valid. He was of opinion that if this grant were passed to the College of Maynooth the principle would not stop tkere. They would then he required to support the priesthood, and to build churches, and the result would he that a regularly endowed State Church would be established in Irele.nd. That id:is grant was opposed to the wishes, of the people of England e - ,s sufficiently evidenced by the number of petitions which had poured in from all parts of the country against it. He slid not deny that a portion of this opposition might arise fro-n the old feeling which regarded with disapprobation all concus sions to Ireland. A great deal of doubt existed as to the real sentiments of the lender of the Irish people on this questi( n. .1 he Honourable and Learned Member for the county of Cork had professed so many different principles nn this subject that they might well doubt whether he were a voluntary agent or not. He could not conceive how the Catholic clergy would accept of this grant to the College of Maynooth, and refuse, on a future occasion, to accept of an endowment for themselves. He could not see how the adop tion of one should not carry them forward to the other. But there was another matter which deserved consideration in the language which had been held by the Hon. Member for Cork in the Repeal Association, and by some in that House—he meant the argument of restitution. What did that mean? Why, nothing short of the establishment of the Cathol c Church on the ruins of the Protestant Church.—( Near, hear.) Tithes were, originally, the property of the Catholic Church, and, if the argument were enforced, they should be restored to that Church. No man was more averse to an Established Church in Ireland than he was, whatever that Church might be, but he never wnuld consent to endow one Church at the experse of a n other. He thought the Established Church a monstrous grievance, and had always eonsistently opposed it. He was in favour of the appropriation of the revenues of the Church to national purposes. The Hon. Member for Dundalk said a great deal of Church property was the gift of private in dividuals, He (Mr. Crawford) hail no objection that Chura h property should be disposed of as the testators wished. He could not help feelinrr that there hail h en a breach of faith en the part of the Catholics in supporting this measure—a breach of faith towards those who supported the voluntary principle. He felt that the Catholics, in supporting the measure, were acting inconsistently with their former declarations. He heard of ns intention to extend civil liberty to Ireland. lie did not hear of any intention to eatend the franchise—i ai did not hear of any intention to make an addition to the num ber of Irish Members. The landlords' claims had been ad mitted. He had not heard of any intention to grant such an extension of civil rights as would tend to check agitation. 'Tile people had been deceived by the agitation for Catholic eman cipation. They would be deceived by the agitation for re peal. It would end in the endowment of the Catholic Church without any extension of civil liberties to the people They would he deceived by the repe agitation as they hscl been deceived by the emancipation agitation. They had sub seribed large sums of money to support that agitation, but the people would find out, after all the sacrifices they hsd made, that they would be deceived. He wondered how the Irish Members could held forth this measure as a boon to his countrymen. Not a single petition had been presented from the people of Ireland in favour of this measure. 'The agitation would not cease in consequence of this measure. It had been said that when Catholic Emancipation was grants.-I all agitation would cease. Had such been the case ? He con sidered the measure was totally Conservative, and having only for its object to sustain the Established Church in Ireland. He maintained that no benefit could be obtained for Ireland; this very course of policy would not be assented to by the English people. If the grant was persisted in, contrary to the feelings of the people of the country, it would be prejudicial to the in terests of Ireland in the minds of the people of England. As a friend to the country, and having a wish for the principle of civil and religious liberty, he would give a vote in opposition to this measure. Lord C. HAMILTON said that he would take this opeor tunityof stating his opinion on tdds, question, and the grounds on which he would found his vote on the measure. He rinu,t Lord HOWICK expressed his surprise that the Noble Lord had not brought the subject of proceed ugs before flailiva;" Committees more distinctly under the notice of the House before those Committees should have commenced their labours. The Noble Lord and the House might remember, that in the debate which had taken place on the resolutions moved by the lion. Member for Inverness, the Noble Lord then promised that he should propose some alterations in the standing orders to guide the Committee in their decisions. The House was aware that one Commit'ee under the present system decided on one principle, and another Committee on another principle. There were great principles involved in the consideration of those cases. and he had expected that when the Noble Lord undertook that this subject should be brought under the consideration of the House by her Maj , sty's Government lie would have done so in a tangible form. These Committees were now about to begin their labours, and yet the House was in dark ness as to the principles by which they were to G uided.—( Hear, hear.) He was not prepared himself to introduce any resolution on the subject, but he thought there ought to be a general discussion as to what rules should be adopted. He thought he ought to complain of the silence of Government on this question. Mr. WILSON PATTEN thought that, if counsel were not allowed to sum up the aovantages of contending lines, the Committees would be deprived of very great assistance. Mr. SII A W opposed . the resolution. 3lr. PAK INGION thought it ;could be much better to leave these questions to the decision of the Committees them- selves. Sir GEORGE GREY did not think it would be pruden to let a counsel state the case for his clients before their oppo. cents had made out theirs, for that would be giving one party an unfair advantage over the other.—( Hear.) Lord G. SOMERSET said he conceived it would be better to let Committees, in all cases, exercise their own discretion as to the manner in which the proceedings should be cart jai on—( Hear, hear) —for it had been found extremely difficult to lay down rules for the guidance of Committees in this respect ; therefore, it had been deemed a more prudent course to leave to the Committees the power of making such arrangements es the merits of each case should require. However, he now begged to say that he would withdraw the resolution. RECAL OF LORD ELLENBOROUGH. Mr. HUME said that his motion for the producticn of cor respondence connected with the recal of Lord Elenborough stood for Thursday next. He now wished to give notice that he did not intend to bring it forward until the Government was freed from the asneyance on the May Booth grant.—( A ia4h. ) RAILWAYS. Lord HOWICK wished to know from the Noble Lord op posite ( Lord G. Somerset) whether the reports of the Board of Tr.:de would be laid before the Committees wk.ich were to meet on Monday? Lord G. SOMERSET was understood to say that no order had been made on the subect. Lord HOWICK only hoped that no motion would be made at a late hour of the night, when only a few Members might be present. Mr. LABOUCHERE said he understood that the reports of the Board of Trade would be laid before the Committees as a matter of course. Mr. DUNCOM!3E said that the standing order on this sub ject was a most objectionable one. It was smuggled into the House last session, and he would take the sense of the House with a view to rescind it on Monday. Mr. AGLIONBY said that he thought the postponement of the decision till Monday evening would put the Commit tees to great inconvenience, and the parties who had their agents and witnesses in town to considerable expense. He thought the House ought to meet to-morrow, and come to a decision. Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET made an explenation across the table which was not distinctly heard in the gallery. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that the motion of the Noble Lord would by no means interfere with the motion which he intended to make on Monday. The reports which had peen submitted to the Committee ought to be accompanied with cer tain documents from the Board of Trade, containing the grounds en which they founded their reports. It was the public opinion that there were ex parte statements made to the Board of Trade, and that there was gross partiality on the part of the Railway Department of that Board. The object of his mo• tion was that certain documents should accompany the reports of the Railway Department of the Board of Trade, stating the reasons why they recommended the dismissal or adoption of a Bill. This he wished to propose now by way of amendment. Lord HOWICK said that he should make no objection to the motion of the Noble Lord, but he should take this oppor tunity of calling the attention of the House to the nature of the reports. There was a distinct understanding that her Majesty's Government had no objection to comply wile the motion of the Honourable Member for Finsbury. He thought that the House had gnat reason to complain of the great want of care exhibited on the part of the organ of the Board of Trade. It was the duty of an officer of that department to have ascertained earlier the necessity of making such a motion ; it should have been brought forward when it weuld have been practicable. He thought that the loose had a great right to complain. It was only another example of the system of carelessness which from first to last characterised the fiscal business of that department THE WAR IN SINDE. On the motion that the order of the day for resuming the adjourned debate be read, Mr. HUME begged to ask the Noble Lord opposite (Lord ccelyn) whether the documents he ( Mr. Hume) had moved Ism relative to Sinde, had been laid on the table? Lord JOCELYN said that some of the estimates moved for 'Dy the Hon. Member, relative to certain receipts and expenses, t s (been received, and he hoped to have them completed very shortly. say that, of all the argumen's he heard in Ireland in favour the repeal of the union, he never heard one stronger than that the Irish Roman Catholics were not placed in the same position as the Di: enters in this country. He never thought that any other argument justified the repeal. They gave thirty-five thousand pounds as an endowment to 600,000 Dis senters, and they were refusing an endowment of twenty six thousand pounds to 6,000,000 of Roman Catholics in Ire• land. The Hon. Gentleman ha I made use of another argu ment which did not appear to him (Lord C. Hamilton) to be very felicitous. He had said that this measure would be the cause of creating political agitation. Now, he (Lord C. Hamil ton) was of opinion that it was the want of such measures that had caused agitation in Ireland.—( Hear.) If this Bill had been forced from the Government by fear and intimidation, or if it had come in an unwilling spirit from a reluctant Govern ment, he did think they would not be justified in granting it. But what was the fact? The Government had come forward spontaneously and offered the boon with a good grace, and, therefore, it would be received in 1. - eland as a boon.— ( Cries of " Hear, hear.") He had heard some Honourable Members speak as prophets, but he contended that they had already been put out of court as prophets, for this proposition had not resulted in the disastrous consequences in Ireland that they had prognosticated.—(Hear, bear.) Ile felt justified in asserting tha t the measure had met with na op position from the Protestants compared with that offered to it by the Dissenters of both countries, for the latter had been in • stigated to do so by jealous and disaffected feelings.—( Hear. ) He had often used the term " excited" in speaking of th.s measure, and he should confess he felt that no petition had been presented here that was not the result of excited feeling, for in the course of this debate he had heard language made u-e of that could only emanate from very excited feelings.—( Hear. hear.) He thought many of the statements, fervid and eloquent though they were, of the increased dangers to the Protestant Church, arising from this increased grant, were wholly without foundation. It was stated that a liberality like this was dangerous, bet he would ask the Hon. Members who used that argument whether tho remission of the penal code, and of other laws peculiarly oppressive to Ire• land, had not softened the asperities which the people of that country cherished towards England, and swept away in a _great degree the prejudices which had kept them asunder ?—(Hear, hear.) And would they ray that this measure would not be followed by a like happy result ? He thought that the course which had been pursued with respect to the Roman Catholic., in times past, was more calculated to disseminate their princi ples than any other which could have been adopted ' • and as those mistaken efforts to put down the Roman Catholic religion had totally failed, as they had only strengthened the hatred which unfortunately they had always cherished towards the professors of the other faith, he ( Lord C. Hamilton ) thought that now they should try whether a greater degree if cordiality and sympathy would not induce them to lay aside the prejudices they had so long retained. Hon. Members, perhaps, would recollect the old fable of the man and his cloak, and how the more the storm did beat, the closer did he wrap his cloak around him, until, the tempest over, he was induced, by the genial rays of the sun, to loose its folds by degrees, and at last to throw it aside altogether.— ( Cheers.) They had been as the storm to Ireland, and the:, had been unsuccessful. Now let them try the sunshine. (Cheers. ) It was notorious that the state of Maynooth was not such as was contemplated be its founders, and they would be only continuing the evil by perpetuating the present grant, and the present system. For his own part, if he were asked to decide on that night whether the present system should be continued, or whether it should be at once dissolved, he was afraid that he should support the latter proposition. He thought that an unnecessary degree of alarm had been exhibited by several lion. Members with regard to the effect of educating the Irish priests. Surely, if those Hon. Members were assured that Protestantism was based upon truth, and he (Lord C. Hamil ton) for one was fully convinced of it, they shoul I rather rejoice in the spread of educat ion, because they were all aware that dark ness and superstition and ignorance were co-existent as certainly as were light and truth. This was not only, in his opinion, an equitable grant, but it was enhanced by the manner and the spirit in which it was offered by the Government. It had been offered in a manner calculated not to wound, in the slightest degree, the feelings of the most sensitive; and he was sure that the Irish people would observe that all personal er party motives had been merged in an anxious desire to give them some measure of Justice. They tvou , cl observe the inconve nience, and he might say the odium to which the Ministry had subjected themselves in bringing forward this measure, and he trusted the recollection of it would sink deeply into their hearts, and be remembered with lively gratitude. The debate, he was glad to sec, had been distinguished by the absence of all political topics which might tend to resuscitate bitter or angry feelings, and With the view of doing away in a greater degree with the prejudices which now existed against this Chtholic seminary, he might perhaps be permitted to sug gest that the new institution, for he could call it no other, should be removed as far as possible from its present locality of Maynooth. They knew from the account given by the Right Hon. Baronet of the present state of the building, that the public would gain nothing by the attempt to repair it, and he conceived that as they should be obliged to rebuild it, it would be wiser to remove its site and change the name which at present was a very rallying point for the exhibition of political animosity.—( Loud cheers.) He trusted that thus regenerated its new name would be the harbinger of a better state el things for Ireland I while the old name, with its associations, should be forgotten—(Cheers)—and in the meantime he would pray of those Hon. Members who had foreboded the most direful consequences from the passing of this measure, to suspend their judgments, and to give the pro position time to produce its fruits, and he did hope that the re sult would be a greater degree of peace, and comfort, and edu cation in !relane, and an extended confidence in the justice of the English nation.—(Cheers. ) Mr. Al UNTZ rose and said that they saw strange things— ( Laughter)—and they heard strange things—(Continued laughter)—but nothing that he ever saw or heard, however strange, was to him so very strange, as the change that hail taken place in the speeches and opinions of Noble Lords and Hon. Members,—( Laughter.) Their memories were clearly affected.—( Continued laughter.) He recollected that at the first, when he had the honour of sitting in that House, every Catholic question was a battle-field fur presonality and party. (Hear, hear.) He recollected, and they might recollect, that the vote of want of confidence in the Ministry was upon a Catholic question,--(Hear hear.) They might recollect that the House decided that it had no confidence in a Government which yielded concessions to the Irish Catholics.—(Hea-, hear.) They might iecollect, also, that these arguments fres quently ended in personal disputes; and if he remembered aright, once in a duel& He would yield to no man in that House or in the c ountry, in sup; ort of toleration to all blassea and sects of religion ; but that *as one of the principal reasons why he was opposed to this measure. lie thought this a paltry and pitiful measure which Government ought to be heartily ashamed of. If the grant were truly for the purposes of education, as Stated by the Right Hnn. Baronet, he (Mr. Munte) would allow him to ask a grant as large and as hand • some as he liked; but let him not tell him that this grant was for the purposes of education. Education of whom ? Of a few Catholic priests, who would, in their turn , gi ve edu cation t o the people ? Was it a principle , he would ask, of th e Catholic priesthcod to communicate the education they themselves received to those beneath them ? Scripturesmove?p a id eco th rd e i y ng al t l o ow the th ir em ow ntoplatnbsinaknd for themselves nonly education they gave was an exposition of the Sacred — at (Hear.) He was mos t allowed the free ,xerc anxious that every man should be think it fair, that he (TI of his religion, but he did net W ? h for it.—( Hear.) eve r. Muntz) should be asked to pay (Hear, hear.) H t-et c.r. ry_rn u a n n pay for his own religion.— his,•- e ( Cheers. ) He had t been t alasked no man to pay for that he . was a bt b ot. (Laughter ) He a bigot I—(G reat laughter.) He had suffeted too much both in person and pocket to be a bigot. THE HORSE-GUARDS. Sir R. PEEL, in answer to a question from Mr. Grantly Berkeley, relative to certain reports from the Board of General Affairs, said he hoped the Hon. Member would have no ob jection to repeat the question on Monday next. STATE OF THE LABOURING CLASSES. Lord JOHN MANNERS wished to ask the Noble Lord the Member for London when his Lord,hiii intended to lay before the House the particulars of his motion relative to the state of the labouring classes in this country, for the dis cussion of which he had fixed the first of May ? Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he proposed to do so on Thursday next. GRANT TO MAYNOOTH. Mr. J. COLLETT wished to know from the Right " Georgio Tertio, I'atri Patri-x, Fundatori sun , Collegium Manutianum." Upon this inscription he would not comment, but Hon. Mem bers, he thought, would not expect to find such an one in a " nursery of sedition." — ( Hear, hear.) Taunts had been thrown out from the other 'side that this measure was not en tertained by the Government. when in Opposition. He would eollY. not carry it ; he not retaliate or find fault with those who, when in power, might have brought forward a measure eT e, - hich they highly possess ) had overcome, would have pre akpnic4rwovtehda.t such 'rhe torrents of o o r f d pe k titie " n - s as were now poured into vote and Hear hear. ) the House, backed by the opposition of those Conservatives o h n e d opposing r ea i n g who were now tacitly opposed to it, if not by the scruples of siu s t i e d ri e those whom confidence in the Right lion. Baronet (which the Neble Lord did not speech of one member of the Government — the Right Hon. Member for Perth (Mr. F. Maule).—( Hear.) He hailed this as a mea ll sure of justice as well as of . policy, and would never believe that this there lli would rec l h i r v j g e been a(' e t the principles of the Christian religion or of the P ro t es t an t faith were opposed to the education of the Christian instruc tors of so vast a portion of our fellow-subjects.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. BELLEW said that he would not give his vote In favour of this measure, as he agreed with other Ho nourable Gentlemen in thinking that it was introduced in order to predispose t h e minds of the people of Ireland to other measures, and that it would tend to do away with great prejudices which had been encour ag ed in this c,untry. The people of Ireland were now suffering undor the payment of the Established Church, he thou g ht that it displayed groat sense on their parts to exhibit such readiness to receive this grant. It had been said th at it was hard giving money to a Catholic College when there was no endowment to the Pro. testant Church for education. He could not conceive the weight of that argument. What was the difference whether money was given for education, or education was given whereby those who received it would afterwards gain a livelihood? Take Trinity College, for instance. A Catholic could have no advantages in that College. There were seventy scholarships, twenty-two fellowships, and 40,000/. exclusively devoted to the objects of that College, which was exclusively Protestant. There were 150,0001 a year endow ments to Diocesan schools and to Charles the Second's schools. It was said that there would be no control exercised by the Government over the College. But it was no matter what the control might be, the students would receive a Roman Catholic education nevertheless.—(Cheers.) In other countries there was a regular arrangement between the Catholic Church and the State. But this was not admitted to be an endowment —it was only a grant to a College—it was rot for a whole clergy, so that there was no attempt to incorp orate them with the State. The Hon. Gentleman then all uded to the various meetings which were held in this country against the grant, and thought that the larguage made use of at theirs and by several Hon. Members in the Ho use was sufficient to rouse the indignation of the Irish people. The Hon. Member for Newcastle, who was remarkable for the stron g description of his language, stated that the priests had no s to prevent them from being rebeliious; but he forgot tie that they had the ties of sickness and sorrow, and that they had duties to perform which those who had wives and families would be expeled to discharge.— Hear.) He could not sit down without thanking those Protestant Members who had, in direct defiance of the opinion of their constituencies, supported this measure. Nn rlsubt it would lay them open to the severe censure of their constituents, hut they would have the consolation of knowing that the course, the liberal and wise course they had pursued on that occasion was calculated to lead to the existence of better feelings between the inhabitants of the two countries. Captain TAYLOR remarked that, in the course of the de bate, it had been raid that the opposition to thts measure out of doors was confined to the Dissenters, hut he differed from this opinion. He knew that the Protestants of both countries looked upon this measure with anything but indifference. They thought the measure was quite unnecessary , and complained that the leaders of their party had basely betrayed them. The predecessors of the present Government would never have dared to introduce such a measure, and as he considered it was traught with danger to the Protestant interests o f the nation, he felt it to bo his bounden duty to oppose it. Sir FREDERICK TRENCH declared his intention to give the measure his most unanimous support, notwithstanding he had presanted several petitions from his own constituency against it. He could not, however, conceal from himself that they totally misunderstood the question, and when they came to read the discussions oa the subject, or more minutely to look into the question, he wes satisfied they would see the expediency of the measure. In Ireland there were upwards of 70,000 Roman Catholics, who existed in a state of ignorance and bigotry that to him was truly alarming. Their priests h . sd daily intercourse with them, and it m ust be evident that, if that priesthood were better educated then they now are, its benefits would be extended to their flock. Mr. COBDEN, who at first spoke in such a low lone of voice as to he quite inaudible in the gallery, said it would appear that great apprehension existed in the public mind that the House was going to endow the Roman Catholics of Ireland, for three fourths of the petitions which had been presented to that House Honourable Baronet at the head of her 3lajesty's Govern merit, if the debate on the grant to Maynooth should terminate this evening, when it was intended to propose that the Hcuee should go into Committee on the Bill ? Sir R. PEEL—I trust there will be no objection to the House going into Committee on the Bill on Monday next.— ( Hear, hear.) The debate has now been protracted to a. very lung period, and as the Government have only two days, namely, Monday and Friday, for bringing on Government measures, I do hope that if the debate should close to-night there will be no objection to the vote being taken on Monday. —( Hear, hear.) I beg to assure Hen. Members that no undue advantage whatever is intended to be taken in any way; and, therefore, after the debate closes to-refeht, I shall make the motion in form that the House go into Committee on the Bill on Monday next.—( Hear, hear. ) Sir R. INGLIS said that the country felt se deeply inte rested in this measure that he could not at once, without con sulting his friends on that side of the House, give his con sent ; and he, therefore, hoped his Right Hon. Friend would not ask him to answer the question upon the instant. Lord J. RUSSELL said t with respect to taking the vote of money from the Consolidetion Fund, for the purposes of the Bill, he supposed that would be involved in the motion of the Hon. Member for Sheffield. He supposed the considerstion of the Bilt in Committee conld not take place before some sub sequent day—Friday, perhaps. Sir R. PEEL said the Czehmittee which he proposed for Monday was not a Committee on the Bill, but a Committee of the whole House for the purpose of taking the sense of the House on the money vote included in the Bill, and afterwards the Bill would he referred to the ordinary Committee. The Hon. Member for Sheffield had given notice of a motion for Monday. He did not complain of the length to which this debate had been protracted, and he hoped that considering the discussion which had already taken place, and the discussion which must necessarily occur in its subse quent stages, there would he no objection to their proceeding with the money vote on Monday. The presentation of petitions eenneeted with Maynooth was then proceeded with. Mr. HINDLEV rtesented forty-eight petitions against the Mayneeth '„-I'ant from the following places:— From the parish eheech at Ashton-under-Lyne, signed by the clergy and congregation ; from the clergy and congregation of St. Peter's, Ashton-under-Lyne; from the Surrey , Chapel, signed by nearly one thousand persons from the inhabitants of Ship rith, Cambridgeshire ; Yate and Pickup Bank, Lancashire; Mortock, and its Vicinity, Somersetshire ; Waterford, Ire land ; Walsinehsm, Not folk ; Snoring, Norfolk ; Great Jotham Protestant Dissenters, Corsham, Wilts ; Berkeley, Gloucestershire ; Pembroke Dock ; Swansea, Glartiorganshire; Calton, Norfolk ; Pisgah Chapel, Flint ; Lady Huntingdon's Chapel, Gloucester ; Went, Salop; Salem Chapel, Woolwich; Vex non Chapel, Peseitonville ; Salem Chapel, Otley, York ; Bangor, North Wales ; Barrowden and Morcott, Rutland ; Cannon -street, Dumferline; South Creek, Norfolk; Bap tists, Church-street Chapel, Blackfriars road; Heptonstail, York ; Wesleyan Methodists, Lostock ; Primitive Methodists, Itaildon, York ; Shipley, York ; Bradford, York ; Helough inn, South Raynham, Norfolk ; Staley bridge ,• Hyde, Che shire ; Wesleyan 'Methodist Association, Warlaggan, Wilts ; Pilperro, r Cornwall ; Clithero, Prohruan, and Caybrenew, Cornwall; Tabernacle Chapel, Northwick, Duloc • Calvinistic 111ethoaists, Hentiam, Derbigh ; Trevena, Brecon ; New Girvan ; Chapel, Old-street-road, Shoreditch ; Free Church, the Society o , f E F s r s i e e A n .s, Rochester ; Teachers of Sun da Y Schools, HarfOrd - Mr. LOCKHART presented a petition from the Synod of Glasgow and Ayr against the grant to Mayncoth. Mr P . e i t , i a ti c o k ri e s ( a f g ro a rn ins pe against t y h o 4gr A an i t were presented by M r . B e ll, presentedci in r. faa Taylor,vour petition o A f I . h e Gf me e n : Mr. H a c a :, milton, and C u l. A cton . whose some Alr. na ß m O e E w l e iC d C ia K notea i E e a l :t :T ho A re l e asure. r , Petitions against the M a y noot h grant were presented C. Hound, Mr. Plumptre (5), Cr. Bowring 3i S r Sir i‘ ..lim Leicester; Mr. llastie, from Pai s l e y ; ; Lord Ehrington, from Plymouth; M r . T. Duncs'orntir. Mr. Bright, from Northumberland ; Mr. Blewitt, born Mc ' n- ; mouth ; Mr. Grogan, from Dublin ; Mr. Macaulay, from Edinburgh ; Mr. Darby, Captain Polhill, and Mr. C. Bruce, from Elgin. Sir C. NAPIER presented a petition from the Protestaet Dissenters meeting at Portland-street Chapel, in favour of the grant to Maynooth College. Petitions against the grant were presented by Lord Ashley, Mr. G. Bankes, Mr. Sharman Crawford, and other Hon. Members. YNOOTH GRANT.— ADJOURNED DEBATE. The order of the day was then read. Mr. S. CRAWFORD said he felt deep regret at being compelled to separate midi on the present occasi on from THE S:N,LONDON,___SATrIti)AY EVENING. APRIL 19, 1845. e „„, • went upon the supposition that they were going to pass a mea- night to his Hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury, to at sure is, as the Right Hon. Baronet has stated, the c , °n ' ll-•—• It sure to endow the Roman Catholic priesthood. Now s i nce th e once quit th e b eec h es on w hi e n he now set, and to cross the ment of a series of reeseures by which the tiv r o a H on . M e mber fur Birmingham, who had displayed lcss of his House, for he charged him with gIOSE and most crireinal apes- be beend together.—( Cheers ) Sir, wentcd sagacity on that occasion, had sat down, he had thought tacy from all the principles which had brought him tem pleasure the declaration made by the flight lion• dg. \ I it to be his duty to go and peruse the Bill, and see what it was power. The people of England felt that there were traitors to osits>, that he was guilt yof errtir.—(Cheers: a nd a: t bo, Is, see they were going to do. He found by the preamble of that Bid their interest, and if they were not to be feund i n that H ous e, wish to remind th e Ri g ht Moo. Gentleman " l eer the S i lte that they . were going to amend two Acts which wer e p asse d i n th ere were a t l eas t t ra i tors t o the Protestant interest—great said by a Catholic: :reicher, its is worth while to sin. ec , eed ee I be r . the Parliament of Ireland, providing means for the education and detestable traitors to the Protestaot principlem—s Hear, of repentance• Sir, I must ay that this Bill will the ~ „„n se 0 of persons professing the Roman Catholic religion. He hear. ) The Bill nos before them was, it perisible, a greater with the greatest welcome by the ereat body of . r e. t r o ;the looked over this Biil to see if he could find anything which injury to all the beet interests of the country, and the potpie Ireland. It has been said that there is some objee th i" a d s a ct I have he'. -w. Baronet If" cou ld in the smallest degree lead to tie impression that they 'of England felt that their confidence had been betrayed.— mea s ur e b ec ause it has been brought forward with : eet in I li ' were going to endow the Roman Catholic religion, and I:e ( Hear, heer. ) He might cite the opinion of Lord Eldon.— rcfereace to the Sovereign, Ido not think it 3s s r orere i e ei coioo r i it i r , i e r a e rti ed could find nothing of the sort. Now if any Hon. Gentle- (Great laughter from the Oppontion benches.) Did ' H ouse t o re fer to the present feelings of the . .. that h. at man who was in the secrets of the Government, and who Honourable Gentlemen O mar, to say tf,,t th e opinion ' (ch eers .) B u t it i s haft-mete on my part to saa" e jat s 3 might he better informed than himself on the measure, and of Lord Eldon was nothing wertli ? Ile would take leave pelicy .I , icll hm M e nd; ''' ' A Government may ado') M .roust ' who thus had an advantage over him, they might put to tell the Hon. elember fur Beth that Lord Elston was a events, calmed help recognisieg, so far as her Majeste! l e irig ..of a different construction upon the measure.—(Hear, hear.) grea t er l aw y er th an himself, and he timught that if authority I tutional influence is exerci-ed, her regard for the wet leiced .t° It was perfectly competent for any Honourable Gen- was to be acted on at ad, the opinion of Lord Eiden was en- ' her Irish s uhjects. Sir, we have heard, and lam p e erg s i tleman to put what construction he pleased upon it, but titled to some weight. The alinistcrs at last seemed to thitsk I refer to the occurrence, that Ler Majesty expressed n ,e , la d t, he confessed it did not appear to him that the cosisequences 01 that i t was necessar y, f or they had not hesitated to trig the ticatton at seeing Mr. O'Connell io his muoicipal this Bill would be the endowment of the Roman Catholics ref came of th e S o vereign into this debate in a way which was a I and here Majesty instructed Earl de Grey, on his apnm on of Ireland. But he thought it was con si s tent, as f a r as he was violation o f a ll usage, and he thought, therefore, to sneer at I to the Lord-Lieutenancy at Ireland, to exert all the P s ° s Sir, concerned, to vote for the measure, because, in his opinion, it authority was at least inconsistent with good tente, but at arty 1 his office to conciliate the people of ireland.—(Cheerss,)o rm y was simply and purely an educational grant. If the Right r a te it should not prevent hint from exposing the contemptshie I was then, and lam now, convinced that the happinre sea ' t.. ...... Hen. Baronet who was at the head of the Government would apos t ac y, w hi c h was a di rec t violation of the Act of Settle- country is one of the objects nearest and dearest to he , eel follow the example of the Hon. Member for London, and were mer e, and a contravention of the oath o f supremacy—a ' (ch eer s. ) She will ge to Ireland with her countewanciewor 700 to express a devise for his consent to endow the Roman Catholic complete d es t ruc ti on o f the principles which had placed tug with joy. She will see there her own beauties, i carm aet clergy of Ireland, even if both parties in that House - were to the royal family on the throne.— (Cries of " Hear, hear.") tieneeolence reflected in every face.—(Cheers.) 1 ate pill unite wish him, he ventured to say the ccuntry would At the last general election the Ho n . Member for Laura- if she go surrounded with the pomp of the Court, fo r d hem . never suffer him to carry such a measure, nor coulst shire made use of a remarkable expression, when the Hen. have Justice, and Mercy, ac-d Hope to wait ups , homed they hope in their day to endow the Roman Catholic clergy M e mber for Nottingham hail the indecency to introduce ((:heer3. ) And if the brother of bar father was s• the mil preei, moped of Ireland cut of the consolidated fund? The excitement the name of the Queen, where he should not have done. The with enthusiasm—a just enthusiasm, because he wa 5 . 50 i t, ea which existed in the country in consequence of the mesappre- e xpression was, " The Lord defend the Queen from had ad- Ergli.h sovereign who set his foot in the spirit of .. 0, in ee 1 hension which prevailed upon what they were then about to yeasts and from the advice of an adverse Ministry," and to Irciand, with what blessings will she be received I tn do, most have convinced the House that he was right in what th a t exc l ama t i on mo s e cm-really did he say amen !—( Great wife, the good mother, the pattern of her sex, theP ur Pe S i bl er, l * he was seeing. The grant was simply for educational pur- laughter.) In conclusion, he begged to say that n the Go honest, the undistembling, the sincere, with the brig _t est forehe° ll ' poses, and involved no principle.—(Cries of " Na, no.") vernment eould induce log Majesty to attach her signature to dem in all the world glittering on her unblemishe ~, la The Honourable Member for Oxford cheered, and he that measure, she would be committing an act equivalent to a and the love of Iceland within her heart l —(Loud cheer ?airi, presumed ironically, at his assertion that there was declaration of the instability of the throne. s for te t no principle involved in the question, but would the Right H e r e a n immen'e number of Hon. Members steed up, but tulle of royalty that she proceeds to Ireland. It lehusisstir 6 is not for the purpose of resting herself from them er e a s Hon. Gentleman permit him to ask if the saovernment were Mr. SHELL having caught the Speaker's eye, he said, Sir, purpose of looking on her brave, chivalrous, e Ji s her Dien' , to be thrown upon the question, and her M jesty sent for the I think it is extremely unfertussate—it. is extremely to be la- people—ef seeing with her own eyes, and feeling with die that Right Hon. Gentleman to foam another Government, would mewed that no English Minister can ever confer even a small heart, what is best to be done fur Ireland. Engage ed w hen • not his first measure he to propose a vote of 9,000/. to the benefit upon lieland, witheur doing minchief to himself.— noble study, she will, I trust, remain there long ;au . tir e, so College of Maynooth ?—( Cheers.) If he was right, then what ( H ear , h ear .) N o doubt, Sir, a great deal of excitement has the day of her departure shall arrive, it is not, lan : se a 0. was it but a question of 17,000/. ? Arid how would they pre- been created in this matter ; but I - do think that it is a matter mere imagination on my part to say that she will look ne me n.. sent themselves to the eyes of Europe, who had witnessed the o f a very gra tifyi ng n ature to the people of Ireland, to have ob- Ireland, and pray that besore she may have attained the . ' be, excitement, if the grant were negatived? Why, it was a per- served that from the commencement of this discussion the Man of her age, eshose morning has been so events, iY"eietate secution that was never heard of in the annals of religious his- Church of England party, which may be regarded as the safe- given to her, by the Disposer of all human blessedt los, tory. Hnn. Members were not contending that there should guard of the religiousprejudicreof this country, have prudentially Ir e land with perpetual peace; that it may be her , it en maga be no Maynooth. No. Hon Members said there should a b s t a i ne d f rom taking an y p a rt in the scene this discussion has surrounded with advisers who shall participate in el l e e at tbe be education at Maynooth ; but it should be a defective created ; but from tile noble elevation on which it stands has fl ank /l one feelings, to make reparation to Ireland foro a le the education. No, they did not contend that there should be looked down with cote serenity on this, what I may weil call calamities site has suffered, for all the tears shed, __ a , nos no College, but that the College should be like a barrack and sec t ar ian affray, leaving entirely to this House the determine- egerees endured, and for all the wrongs which it has Te_ r m gi e n not a public school.—(Cheers.) He did not see that there thin 0 1 it amongst those with whom it originated, namely, the faelt of your fathers and your misfortune to have talC" was the least necessity for going into discussion as to the merits Di-senters.—( Loud cheers.) Those Pissenters whose c-use my country.—( Loud and continued cheering.) M r h those aje"l"li of the education provided at Maynooth, because no one prop osed Ira h Ca tholics were ever foremost to advance, and who lent -Mr. LAW complained of the introduction 0 - ee vi lo to put an end to it. lie could see no objection to vote a sum of their best aid and most s trenuous effin is to those same Diners- name in the debate. He did not c oncur with doom money for giving 7 009,000 persens proper religious education. tens when they sought for the abeiition of tee Test and Cur- thought that by this meenure they would /relea n. They had now in Ireland a system of national education, for ' , ora tion Acts.—(Cheers.) Yet thoso very men have hate any religious or political party in , . Its which they voted from 70,0001. to 90,000/. a year, to instruct stanch apathetically by upou measures conducive to the This measure shoule be consielered in all its bearino,gs,l,eirly, the children of both Catholics and Protestants, yet they would advancement of the interests of Irish ethers ; b u t u po n this c onsmitiences—its natural consequences—ehould be f i u tt e en , wb ° not give a good education to those men who were to be the occasion, they stand forward, en masse, in great arr ay o f f an ati mid impartially discussed. (The Right. Hon. Gen t l e lit , folde d pastors and religious instructors of those children when they cal insurgency, and in a most determined and use -Christian appeared to be reading his speech from a dem"' so iled bi advanced in years. He had made some inquiries, and spirit, contumaciously oppose this measure.—(Cheers.) I somewhat in the shape of a lawyer's brief, was here a sk s s it w ere he found the means provided at Maynooth were any am not sorry for this ; but I am more than surprised, lam loud es les of " Order, order," and " Read, read.") ~ _ a ce si t thing but sufficient for giving the students a liberal educe- grieved to think that there also are such strenuous supporter, of not ;he pleasure of the House to hear him, he would es:: Fe a3r Win. Now, surely, it they gave these priests some instrue- the Free Church of Scotland, end its favour of whom everyßoman down. net the Hon. Member mho so often cried out d &s liver tton in chemistry and natural philosophy it would make them Catholic Member in this house has voted. lam grieved, I say, le on" and thus interrupted the epeaker, stand °P an , only more acceptable pastors to the farmers and farm-labourers of t o find in the Free Church cf Scotland such a spirit of de- his sentiments. That was the proper course. It wa odite r ht Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) Then he coeld see no possible terrnined hostility against those who So enthusiastically advo. conformity with the rules of decency and, c s lieW ir m objection to the grant, although i cme Honourable Mem- cated their cause.—( Hear.) But, Ism that this is a question (Hear, heam—that an Hon. Member shout" be w ithal"' hers complained of the system of separating the in whirls they have no concern ;it is one in which they are to deliver his sentiments as long as he did s ot , taus' education of the clergy from that of the laity. not called upon to come out upon the volustary principle ;it hurting the feeling of any Hon. Member, and wal e !' bar gio‘ Why this system was not confined to the Roman Catholics has nothing to do with the dogmas ; it contains no protest gressing the rule , of the House. He was only wale!' b 5, for he believed it was the custom of the Protestant Dissenters against the Regium Donlon; and yet they stand forward in what he considered to be his bounden duty—m• 41htY repr eser; of this country to educate their young men intended for the prominent opposition, while the Protestant Church vanes owed to the constituents who had suffered hinr t° e i l e so c a ministry apart from the laity, and for his part he could see no nestral.—(Hear, hear.) stetrange to say, the moment this them in that House. He knew not why he shuulrit ' ‘. a.s e ch be ba d objection whatever to such an arrangement. Again, it was measure was propounded this boiler of Calvinistic wrath over treatment—there was nothing in the manner in eve° e l e mbe r objected that this grant was for a peculiar religion of one seen flowed—the moment they saw a Minister of the Crown end( a. expressed his sentiments, nothing disrespectful to thee se' an y oi' and he begged to remind those who opposed it on that ground, souring to carry out a measure having for its object the inn. of the Government—oothing hurtful to the feelings ° vs , oil that they voted last year 55,0001., which by the report of the provement of the condition of the people of Ireland.—(Hear.) —nothing of excitement or anger. He repeated he ,d e eete s , Privy Council went to the national schools of Eng land. In sp eakin g u p on this q uestion upon a late occasion, I adverted fairly expressing his opinions ; and he could not u , i e e un,'; Now, a clergyman stands at the bead of these n a - to the ad vanta g es that would he likel y to accrue to Ireland front what right Hon. Members had to put him down b Y '' b eer ""m tional schools will a catechism in his band , and no it. I stated tha t it would he looked u p on as an earnest of the less clamour raised on this occaoon.—(Great lag tv 1 , 1 one was allowed to enter the schools who did not learn the benevolent intentions of the Government of the country, cries of " Hear, Hear.") If they would permit hi ll ' e nst.p h e ; catechism. That 53,0001. came from the consolidated fund ; and that the minds of young Irishmen, serving their noviciate his opinions, he would put them in as few words as y e g, l eo and they made large grants to the Universities, from which to the Catholic Church, would end is' this measure the seeds of lie did not deny that he occasionally glanced hiejell' 11.01 the Roman Catholics derived no benefit, and yet they were con- incalculable future good, and that in every parish in Ireland paper he held in hand.—( Great laughter.) s i.' P ee tending that it was wrong in principle to make these grants. It would be located a gentleman educated in principles, by the accustomed to put down the heads of his discourse, a. i n geee 03 was too bad to apply this principle to their own case, and refuse better inculcation of which his example would be the means of done so on the present occasion- —(Renewed latighte e r s ' e ' re stie i h e would ri. bad 0 it to the Roman Catholics of Ireland. He did not think ensuring the hest possible results.—( Hear, hear. ) I will not interruptions had lengthened beyond measure the nu ea bes that was the place for discussing the theological part now go over those grounds again, but instead of showing the which, had he been allowed to proceed, of the question ; and he would here remark, that if they had a d van tages which would follow the passing of this measnie, I concluded.—(lronical cries of "Hear, hear.") i lnects 1c more logical and less theological questions discussed in that will endeavour to exhibit the evil consequences that would objection whatever to his Roman Catholic fellow- to . 1 0 eo nswo House, the interests of the nation would be better attended to. be the certain result of its rejection.—(Cries of " Hear, sessing an equality of civil rights and privileges, but t to 5 0 0 1 —(Laughter.) But that was the last place for discussing them- hear.") If it be rejected it would lend a great to the endowment of the Roman Catholic Churcht e t h r Il logical subjects; and a worse body of men could hardly :et impetus to the discussion of those from Ashton-under-Lyne, lion any step leading thereto, was a very different tull e , e 16 6 .1 themselves up to be a synod for settling theological matters. an d o t m er places.—(Laughter,) And when some lion. Mem- would as shertiy as possible state the objections vsh . e se gl, He had received many adverse communications from the hers r e t urned to their s p iritual constituencies in the north— tertained to this ineasure.—( The Right Hon. Gentrea d 10 e I:, country upon this subject, but he had no right to com p lain of (Laugh t er) —their Calvinistic helinesses will be hailed with appeared to be reading the document which he ne'd read, this ; but still he must support the measure, because he be- lugubrious solemnity, with the Most dismal hosannahs in evert hand, and was again assailed by loud cries of " F tet 'To b ei lieved it would not only be acceptable to, but greatly benefit direction.—(Laughter a n d cheers.) But in Ireland the people and " Order, order." After a pause, he proceeded)Oath °li° the Irish people. Indeed he was happy to have an opportunity in will not confine their c o mplaints to expressions of discontent sure the question of the endowment of the Roman the sr t: that House to give a vote without violating his principles which a t the conduct of the Legislature; they will return with ten- Church had elicited an avowal from the 'Chancellor o f brou gb would be acceptable to the Irish people. His first act as a fold vigour to their demands for a repeal of the Union with this chequer, to the effect that- if ever this matter was ot to ire public man was to publish the evils under wh i c h Ireland country . Let me ask, re hat will be the result of the rejection of this under their consideration , h e f or one would never copse b. The had been suffering ; and he could not on that occasion re- measure in that country, which by courtesy you call " sister" b ei ng endowed b y the revenues of the Protestant Ch tu °' r c es alose rain from giving a conscientious vote in favour of the measure, —( La u g hter) —in that countr y where there are seven millions Chancellor of the Exchequer said that the question notwithstanding it would be in direct opposition to the re- of Roman C atholics—in that countr y where the Ronan Ca- meet was not involved in the Bill before the House. n trad t monstrance.; of those for whom he entertained a high respect , tholics are the g re a t de p ositaries of p olitical p ower —in that Mr HUTT rose to order. He believed it was c,°_eig read and with whom he had long acted. But he should have t h ese- country where the Roman Ca, holies retuin to Parliament two- the standing order of the House that any Member stm" tisfaction of knowinge that he had given a salutary vote in thirds of the Members which represent that country in this his speeches.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") _ Lion , Ge t : favour of a measure which he believed was the first step towards House—in that country where the Roman Catholic r e ligion Mr. LAW wished to know by what right the s pot healing the festering wounds of Ireland.—(Cheers.) preponderates in its municipal corporations—in that country tleman presumed to say, at that distance from ttt e ett ,htere/ Mr. FERRAND agreed that the question could not be Settled where the property, landed, funded, and mercantile is preserved which he stood, that he was reading his speeches.—(!en se ' ee ebe% in that House. It would hare to be submitted to the country. by the Roman Catholics—in that country in which intelligence, The Hon. Member asserted that he was reading his il ' e cbs; They had opposed the great principles which had placed the public spirit, and determination, and a ll the o th e r a tt r ib u tes and had called upon the Right Hon. Gentleman t° „pleb e Ministers in power, and he would read some of the Pledges which constitute a great nation, have been known to exist, to oblige him to desist. He denied that he was r „mem which had been given by the Ministerial adherents at the and in that country where the Roman Catholics have made speeches, and the interruption was worthy o :the a i r i n thd t , last general election, and show them in connexion with their Progress to the highest state of civiliFatisin that is really sum the Hon. Gentleman advocated. The only differe. e h_ oct e t ! conduct before the blouse and the country. Was there any prising. What, I say, will he the effect of the rejection of this statement which he should be enabled to lay before till: s p e ws Member of that House who had forgotten that the cry raised measure in that country, already so discontented—acliscontent be, that for want of this document he was in danger _ r ida so i n at the last general election was—" The Church in daingen" so dark, so deep, and in my mind so just.—( Hear, hear.) ing his arguments, which be had arranged under seP a eti esual But, since then, how had they departed from the-principles Al a s, I fear th a t th e e ff ec t o f suc h an announce me n t w ill be a distinct heads. It was an ungenerous interruptions "_ ct iee c r which they professed b e f ore the i r const i tuents , an d h ow h a d renewe d demand fer the restoration of the Irish Parliament, contrary to the practice of Parliament, and to the pre ~ ) they violated the promises they had given to those and the speculators upon English ruin will then perhaps be Gentlemen.—( Cries of " Hear, hear," and " Order, orr e l ; t est who had sent them to Parliament? Ile only wished t em pted to t urn th e ir e y es u p on I re l an d i n a 'marine r t o ca ll ItIr• OSBORNE rose to order. It was contrary to order ' that the Right Hon. Baronet would again appeal to the coon- f o r the most, ser ious me ditation f r om Lord Ab er deen.— any Hon. Member should tell another that he acted ° I % try, and give the people an opportunity of expressing their (Hear, hear.) There can be no doubt of the fact, that the to the practice of a gentleman.—(Loud cries of " Hear,b e lo s e sti jtidgment ; but on the present occasion he would judge the rejection of this measure will give the most serious impetus to The SPEAKER thought the Hon. Member did not Ministers out of their own mouths. The small party called the repeal agitation. Not because the !motile of Ireland set the language in an offensive sense. tri° 4 the Conservative party—Mr now it was a small party—felt any value per Sc upon such ati ifling donation as 26,000/., but that he had misled and betrayed them. lie would, as a mem- because we think a demonstration will be given that the Go- Mr. LAW thanked the Right Hon. Gentleman for the4iren obliging and just interpretation of what he had said, e. an d ;etb,S bet of that party, appeal to the people of England to call upon vernment of the country no longer considers it necessary to act pretation in which from the bottom of his heart he bdl i e et . tile r their Sovereign to dissolve that House, in order that in compliance with the wishes of the people for th e gran ti ng o f Hon. Gentleman who interrupted him was convincfri seise Lo G o edtie neg t se n t thy might have an opportunity of expressing their a measure which has met with the aparobation of both sides of truth of, before he made the interruption.—( niments on the proceedings of those whom they the House.—(Hear, hear ) When the union of I re l an d w ith " Order, order," " No, no.") The Right Holm , f r om had sent to represent them there. At the last England was proposed, it was opposed by soma o f tcok up the &clement again and appeared to be read" Ø00; general election, her Majesty's Ministers had stated that the ablest men in the Irish Parliament, upon t h e amid renewed laughter.) He must appeal to the l et floa t they had opposed those who preceded them in the Irish Edu- grounds that Irishmen would have no real representation here— Gentleman whether he was to bo the only person in t i; eeetsi e cation Bill, because they believed that the effect of its policy that her voice would be swamped, and to the English aristocracy who was not at liberty to arrange the heads of his erg:i nfa g,' would be to place the whole of the education in the hands of the interests and government of Ireland would be transferred. (Great the Roman Catholic priesthood of Ireland. A Gentleman, a That prediction has unhappily been confirmed ; vet I must say before the House. If the object was to prevent hi i - it v conw_ laughter)—so that he might lay his eentininedwro pre; Member of the other House of Parliament, on the hustings at that, though such is the facumuch of its bitterness has been ceeding it would be successful only to this extent, b a teibicbtli Guildford had made this public declaration, that the Members t a k e n a way for the dignity of the despot, and has considerably prevent him from mentioning most of those points,l i eug hter' 3 ; of her Majesty's Government had entered on office solely in diminished the baseness of the slave.— ( Hear, hear.) If the rested his resistance to this measure.—(Renewea It o es consequence of their adherence to those principles which they country is not to be governed by independent men, but by This debate ought to be corducted as it had been,e,nt te n,. now seemed to repudiate.—(Hear.) Hon. Gentlemen might cry B a pti sts , an d 'Methodi s t s , and Wessleyans, and Independents, very hard that he should not be permitted to rer se s tsti ° 4 " hear, hear," but w h a t wou ld b e the posit i on they wou ld hold and Moravians, I have no hesitation in saving that the repeal feelings of his constituents, who were not inferior , o e ba r in that House and the country when he had exposed them. agitation will be renewed—(" Hear hear," arid cheers)—and character, or ability, to those who interrupted hinh ee pel t & heard the solitary disclaimer of the Chancellor ar o e fA be Ie? . That Hon. Gentleman had declared that their possession of then, indeed, pill the First Minister of the Crown have to make poser would have this good effect—that by the exclusion of the the Cabinet subservient to a conventicle.—(Hear, hear.) quer.—( Here the Right lion. Gentleman appe Whigs from power they would at last have the opportunity And I tell these Dissenters that there will be men found in Mg from the same paper, and the cries 0. 0 Orst r _ iei , ,d of preventing mischief, if they h a d no t the ability to do much Ireland who will be prepared to take as bold a course as that se Read " were renewed. ) Well, if he had no o th e er , e: aie ,. e good. They had resisted, and successfully resisted, the wilder adopted by the Hon. Member for Finsbury until their native would throw himself upon the indulgence of th f el , At schemes of Radical demolition—he had declared, that if the Legislature has been restored, for they never will submit. that (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He repeated that his . i •fs. IP _ Church had to fear the hostility of violence and insidious foes, the union of England with Ireland is to be maintained at the was to perform his duty to those who s ent . Or e n 01' 4 he would ask her Meiesey's Government where those insidious expense of ignominy, and that, therefore, they will consider the profession to which he belonged, he had he adS r e foes now where, and he would tell them that it was upon the it much better and more national to perish than submit to such much in the habit of making notes of the met ell Treasury bench, and in the list o f h er es e i esty m ministers, degradation.—( Loud cheers.) I have told you of the lan- his argument, that he could not trust t° He thoseb that they would find the insidious foes of the Church of Eng- guage that will be used by others in Ireland, not the language for the arrangements of those points.—( Laughter. ) g e f j land. They had been told that when the Tith e Commutation that shall be used by me.—( Year, hear, from the Ministerial been in the course of stating that the apparent coy " ne e.eme. he_ Bill was passed, that it was to promote, through every portion benches.) An Honourable Member says Hear, hear," but who had spoken of the endowment of the Catholic theritheet of the country, harmony and peace in Ireland. What I appeal to the just sense of this country, and to the just indueed him to enter more fully into the considermin.", pe r was said by Lord Lyndhurst ? That it was caktie feeling of all whom I now See around me, whether I have question. He did net find that the suggestion 0 1 gig; hated to inflict grievous injury, and he gutted the drawn an exaggerated picture ?—( Hear, hear.) I say, then, Hon. Gentleman met with any discouragement ro e o enl o words of Lord Melbourne, that it was calculated to give a if you pay no regard to the condition of the people—if y ou lion. Baronet ; nor was it upon au sudden theuee d " re jeil a heavy blow and great discouragement to Protestantism in that reje c t this measure—the result will be to give a new impetus lion that the Right Hon. Gentleman exchangedatiat; for t o country. He had praised Dr. Lefroy as an active and zealous to repeal.—( Hear, hear.) I have spoken with ardour upon with the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of 6 Gntle o .o sentinel, but be would ask where was now the honest and this subject ; but if I have suffered my pulse to beat with less Home Department. The Right Hon. and Learned edee sn e) zealous sentinel? What had been the expressions of Lord temperance than I should have (lane, I am sure you will had clearly stated what was the nature of th men V iers Stanley on the hustings at Lancaster? That the cup of their pardon mc' e, and admit that 1 have had j ust cause required for the Roman Catholic clergy, and he V o e sa id;, iniquity was full. The Attorney-General for Ireland , during of indignation , and hav e a stron g er ri g ht to indulge in language was aware that he could point to the authoritY t t he "be the contest at the last election for the University of Lublin, o f thi s sort than an Englishman should do.—( Hear, hear.) illustrious statesman than Edmund Burke, as 1 , :, fo r ',,, had declared that the Protestant Church was the grand safe- Will y ou ma k e no allowance for our feelings when you con- cessity of seclusioneelor those who were intended,. _fee na guard of the State in Ireland. There the Right Hon. eider the language that has been used to our religion ?—( Hear, Roman Catholic Priesthood ; but he did not think th ot ie; Gentleman sat, and now, in voting for this Bill, b ea r.) la m s ure you will, and be willing to excuse me when best mode of educating those who were to live it b a ou irl ge whether he still thought the same of the value of the you o b serve m y bl o od boil with indignation at such a course, society of Protestants and Roman Catholics. It ' so d 0 5 3 0 Protestant Church, and whether her Majesty's Ministers had I say again that the repeal of the union will he promoted by the recollected that there was a second Catholic questions eneti bt now redeemed the pledges which they had given at the last r ejection of this measure. Are You prepared to adopt such a a more important one than the first. The first the R abe Catholic election. But there was one paper which, at that election, had course, when you recollect that the first Minister of the Cro on' Catholic measure only removed civil disabilities, a" cc een t ft been placarded on the walls of every borough and county has declared in this House, that, at the hazmel of civil war, Hon. Baronet drew a broad line of distinction bet,. 0 0 0 town in England. It was called the Tatnworth tottuitestis ; h e would resist the repeal of the union, and that announce_ removal of civil disabilities and the establishment of tu' er eW, o and he should like to call the attention of the House, and espe- merit was received with acclamation by this House ?—( Hear, Catholic Church. Now, he maintained the present Meascatbol; cially of the First Lord of the Treasury. for that Paper showed hear.) Let me, then, ask Hon. Members opposite whether but the initiative of the establishment of the Roman, getete that the Right Hun. Baronet had himself adopted the whole of they do not think the grant to Maynooth, add other analogous Church.—( Hear, hear.) This was the most importaneo,ol those measures in office which when out of office he opposed. measures, better than civil war ?—( Hear, hear.) I see the Catholic question they had ever been called on to coos T it 10 1 Whatever might be the opinions of the \Vhigs, there was one Noble Lord (Lord Ashley) in his place, and I tw e e to he for one was not surprised that, when the alarm 01 ,0 br thing for which he respected them ; when they professed an ask him what does he think of such an alternative? I know spread throughout the country, the different constituer :wool opinion they held to it ; and he firmly believed that the Whigs him to be a gentlemen of the greatest benevolence and high- instructed their representatives to give it the strong ta b ta ble . ° , were upright, honourable, and honest men as compared with mindedness, and I have always given him the humble homage Hon, and sent in petitions against it which made the tee 41 v a the present Minister. When the First Lord of the Treasury had of my praise. .But let me ask the Noble Lord, does it met that House groan. He should not be surprised if t r o d, I:, addressed his constituents he had endeavoured to support the occur:to him that one night of civil war would result in more lion of this measure should cast England, and Sc, t du rstien principles of Conservatism, and had stated that he feared the misery and devastation than would he committed in a hundred a part of Ireland into an agitation of as many year' e for '/ progress of those principles which had originated in the French years in all the factories of England ?—( Cheers.) I know the and as violent, as that which accompanied the rneasn ee llek o g Revolution of 1830; but he would tell the Right Honour- Noble Lord will shrink with horror from such a fearful contin- removal of the civil disabilities of the Roman C t _ p oe m able Gentleman that a great revolution h a d b e e n effected eency ; should he not then pause before he would recommend (Hear./ He ventured to warn the House from q , jf ri; by himself, after 1829, in the passing of the Catholic the adoption of that fatal policy which honour and hu- into a course, the evils of which it would be diffiend e eer ie Emancipation Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He had feared the pre. manity concur in recoiling from ? (Loud cheers.) impossible, to overstate.—( Hear, hear.) It will the t valence of those principles, but he (Mr. Ferrand) would Sir, I say, conciliate in time the Catholic clergy of Ir e la n d as question of whether the Right Hon, and Learned e s O m tell the Right Honourable Baronet that greater changes had a great intellectual body. —(Cheers. ) There are three thou- opposite (Mr. Sheil) was to have a distinguished pis te 0.07; been produced in this country by his measures, than any which sand men—(Cheers) —firm, courageous, and devoted—they House—whether he was to take part in considerize .11; had beer. effected by the ' trench Revolution. the Right are concentrated in their episcopacy--their influence is diffused, questions which came before Parliament, together v ' eu esd v o , Hon. Baronet had said, that when these changes had been but it is universal. It is collected, centered, and enthroned in Protestant fellow-countrymen. It was a far differell i t d is P ot effected, that it was necessary to raise up a great Conserve- each individual breast of 8,000,000 of people. It has been well —the question whether the Protestant religion shell O Ol lOO tive party. That Party had been raised, and on it the said that the influence of the Catholic priesthood of Ireland gether subverted—(Oh, oh.) 'lhe question before h e .eli ,t Right Hon. Baronet had come come into power, but where, is powerful for good.—( (Tear, and cheers.) lam willing and country was simply this, whether the title upon s' y asrP i - 3 , he would ask, was their great Conservative party now ? to admit that the same power might by some Crown of England had been heretofore founded( ll6l : s tet? i They had for their great motive of action attachment to the strange perversion be turned to evil. I concede to Cher the Act of Settlement should be adead letter on t b ior tic, o o institutions in Church and State, and it was their oloect to you that the influence of the Catholic priesthood in book.—whether the article of the union, the fundaments euester, mainttin those institutions. And whatever might he the Ireland has carried many measures ; they have shown you that measure. should be utterly rendered null —the ii iin er e i t feeling of the Members of that House, he eould assure them that they scold be hurtful as your enemies, but, when recon- was, whether thadquestion should be infringed and i ",,,,, 1011 that he, as a Protestant Member for a Protestant constitu- cited, they have always been your fastest and firmest friends. —(" Hear, hear, and " Oh, oh.") Were theYk' ee t / r e ency, could tell them, that this Bill was looked upon I admit that, in 1828, it was the Roman Catholic priesthood wiser than their ancestors, that they should go ba the pens with alarm by all the constituencies in the north that carried the election of a large majority of Members to the revolution, but even to the reformation, r°r doll' l'ir of England. The Right Honourable Baronet had favourable to Catholic Emancipation.— (Cheers. ) We all pose of subverting them ? And what were they t° o o llo taunted the Roman Catholic Members of that House know that the election for Clare was carried hy the same for ? To support a Roman Catholic priesthood wh o b ey t e, with having forgotten the pledges whi c h they had given to the i n fluence—(Cheers)—and, Sir, Ido not hesitate to say that market of sedition—(" Hear, Pear,' and " Oh, 0, i r Ott Government, but he (Mr. Ferrand) would tell the Right Hon. it is by the influence of the Catholic priesthood that the stimulated to acts of sedition the excitable peole 010 std m(ee Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.") And from ete Baronet that the people of England would taunt him with has- Repeal Association has been sustained. The requisition ing broken all his pledges of atta c hme n t to the institutions of for the meeting at Clontaif was signed by twenty-five funds were the means to be supplied? fro tee the country ; and he could'assure him that the whole weight Catholic p l iests.-- . Loud cheers.) But let Maynooth be taxes of the country, or it may be ' Let ° t e l e' and respectability of the country was fearfully agitated and put down to-morrow, a Catholic seminary would be established, revenues of the Protestant Establishment in Ireland. to b et, excited by the measure which he had introduced. The Right where the doctrine of passive obediecce would be inculcated. recollectr that the next motien which they wauld ha v- alehtme Hon. Baronet had stated on coming into power they would and a mose sullen resistance would grow up. Sir, I trust that ld be this very question, on which the Oli sct iss 'o only retain it by continuing in their favour the confidence of we base enough upon the records of history—enough in our for Sheffield had a motion. Before he went on to he nes t to the people and the weight of public opinion. Where, he would own experience—to show us that the loyalty of the Roman other portions uf this question—(oh, oh )—before “ i e beg or ask, was the weight of public opinion now? As in 1629, Catholic priesthood is a pearl not to be thrown away.— to discuss the other portions of the question, he vo ° bite , h ie not one-twentieth part of the population had expressed even (Cheers.) Sir, I ask you to look to the conduct of the Irish assure the House, that in anything that fell iron . ' n ot of the slightest desi r e f o r th e passing of this Bill.—( Hear.) priesthood in Upper Canada.—( Cheers. ) Every one of the anything that should fall from him, it was , e , of g a t The Right Hon. B aronet h a d come i n with a majority of 91. Governors, over a range of several years, concurs with his pre- intention to say anything hurtful to the feeleneelaaaer He had filched power from the Noble Lord opposite, and had decessor in bearing testimony to the fidelity and loyalty of the one in that House or out of it. On the cootrary, "` dispr b v es e professed to walk in the direct path, and in the light of the Roman Catholic priests in that coentry, who were of Irish with a sincerity which no person had a right t .' ° „ of t eg bt British constit u ti on ; but h e wou ld beg to say that it was in origin.—(Cheers.) And why was that ? You placed them that lie ressecteel as much as any man the elPitlies Ace § the darkness rath er th an in the light that the Right Hon. Ba- in trust with the State—you gave them one-half of the ec- who d.ffered from tom upon religious subjects. eitai s v e ' p lf ronet d e si re d t o tread. O n M arc h 5, 1829, the Right Hon. clestastical endowment of Canada, and you dew ted a portion of that the m moral of she Roman Catholic disabot" be d e j e ct Bat onet h a d s t a t e d t h a t i n bringing in the Bill for Roman the revenue of the Protestant. Church in that colony for the measure for which the Roman Catholics ought t di t ee Catholic E m an c i pa ti on h e discarded all consideration of reli- education of the Roman Catholic priesthood.—(Cheers.) greteful to the Right Hon. Baronet. But this vvas ei s o g of .. ,b, gious principl es , an d t h a t it was a measure of State Now, Sir, if you have the misfortune to go to war with a give countrbordering upon your valuable colony, you would find and separate question altogether, for it was then' ~ichti,""be policy—anel of State police only. That his object was to li ornate Catheter Church co •ordi pate with the Pretest! 9 ,..m1 0 0 an equality of ri g ht s t o the Roman Catholic population, and your account in the , virtues, in the loyalty, and the gratitude of ilf he was trespassing on tse house—as he was close: s od • —cult likely to be tee Irish Roma? Catholic presthood. I ask you, then, wh• was—(Clears and laughter)—he must amain , Ile, A oed tbroll , hel' ibe a that . if he suppo — sed that any treasure would resu.c li.. ay , injurious to the Established Church, he would be the last mart in the world to propose it. He had stated as one of those in juries, the adoption by the Roman Catholic priesthood of the titles of the Established Church in Ireland, yet in the Charita ble Bequests Act of last year, he had expressly acknowledged the right of members of the Roman Catholic Church to the titles of archbishops, bishops, and priests, when by the very enactment he bad inflicted a penalty of 100/. on the assump tion of any one of these titles. This was the way in which he redeemed his pledges. He would advise him to follow the injuaction winch he had given the other it is that the influence which you do not disdain to use in Canada you refuse to exercise Wilh happier tesults in Ireland? If you can convert them into your al;ies as emigrants to Canada, why will you nut make them devoted subjects within your natural boundary? From leaders of agitation you can convert them into the agents o f p eace. F rom i nv i t i ng beacons to your enemies you can convert them into your Lul warks, from which you will derive mote security, more defence, than if you planted a cannon on every promontory in the island. Sir, I regret that this measure was not brought forward at an earlier period. I hope that this mea the indulgence of tlieLauter. that her Majesty's Government had n g e h t duly con - int ro o ,. important consequences which were involve d in the the M` tion (,f thin mva,ure. The Right. Hon. G en tlerna n t i e re e e her for Edinburgh had accused the Right lion. Geritea the head of the Government with having introduc h e , ' lli ad 0101 sure net based on the previous principles whic h he Gentle sie. when in Opposition, and yet the Right Han' 1 0 ,.er the :liember for Edinburgh said that rer,eoP-00 difference in principle between an annual and,eabl.' grant. The two assertions were totally irrecon.•