The Sun. — London, England, 1850-04-20 00:00:00

evourable to one chamber. That was a piece o infor mation which had been withheld from he House. How ever oonclusive the argument might he, there were • acme mys terious wishes of the colonists to be taken for granted at the declaration of the Government. But ahere were these wishes to be found expressed? He (Mr. Adderley) had looked through the papers laid before the Houle, and he could not find them. Did the Government assume a degree of clairvoyance, and pro tease to know by that means the wishes of the colonists? To demand an agreement on the part of the House was tantamount to a vote of confidence on the colonial policy of the Government—what he (Mr. Adderley) eculd not, under the circumstances, consent to. He con sidered the kind of information laid before the House -sas net calculated to establish the case of the Govern ment. At first it was contained in two books, 1848-49, ftud consisted of dispatches. Reading that, however, he aereed with Sir W. Denison that no man could say the e lunists objected to two chambers—all that could be gathered from it was that the colonists of New South Wales were dreadfully alarmed at the caricature of the British constitution proposed for them. The next piece of information given to the House was, the colonists of New South Wales had expressed their gratitude to the Government for the constitution; but it now appeared that, being excessively alarmed, and despairing of any constitution, they naturally expressed themselves grate fel for the concession of - a representative body. The next piece of ief umation was a striking one. In the middle of the session, in the course of the debate on this en cation, the Government stated that though delay mitela be fatal to the measure, still as the House was ilia sufficiently acquainted with the subject, had not re )d, in short, the dispatches, they had made up their mild to delay the Bill until fresh information should be laid before Parliament. That information was waited for with great anxiety; but when it came it turd out to be nothing more than a collection of old dispatches from governors. There was only one new piece in it, nod that was in such a fragmentary form—so filled with asterisks—as to be almost useless. What the object cf the Government could be in publishing a collection of aid dispatches as fresh information, unless it was to blind the House, he (Mr. Adderley) could not possibly conceive. While that meagre information was all that the Government allowed the House, there was a con - eiderable deal of information on the subject from other quarter,. Judge Terry, who was in this country, and who aas an individual of great authority, said the colo nists desired to have a constitution with the three estates separate. Mr. Speaker Nicholson had also written from the colony to this country, expres sing in very strong terms the same opinion ; and Dr. Lang's pamphlet was equally strong on the subject. Then there was Mr. Lowe 's resolu tion before the Legislative Council of New South Wales, while the leading journals of the colony agreed, in commenting on that resolution, that the only thing wanting was a second chamber. The Noble Lord had, no doubt, presented a petition of an opposite ten dency before the recess, but cf the hundred signatures appended to it, there were not, perhaps, twelve who lad ever been in New South Wales, the remainder being colonial aeents or individuals indirectly connected with the colony. The language of that petition, however, be trayed its origin —it was altogether official in its form. But the subscribers expressed themselves satisfied with the proposition of the Government; how could they answer for the colonists? He would take the name of one at aandon—Mr. Enderby, for instance—Mr. En derby was in the South Sea whale fishery, and his ships might, no doubt, have touched at New South Wales; but that this circumstance should give him a right to know the opinions of the colonists batter than he (Mr. Adderley) had the means knowing.in London, he could not for a moment admit. Theta however, was the whole amount of information given by the Government on the subject, and the House was ea be called upon on their :pre dixit to adopt the plan on the ground that it was satisfactory to the people of New South Wales. He (Mr. Adderley) had always felt perfectly certain that the measure could not be carried-ahe did not mean through the House, be cause he believed the Government could carry any mea sure at this moment—but carried out in the colonies. He felt it, because it was impossible of execution; and he had full confidence that the House had only to wait a few days for favourable breezes from the colonies, and ire would be found to be right. News from New South Wales and New Zealand were hourly expected, but news from Van Diemen's Land bad arrived, and he was warranted in stating that the news fully bore cut his predictions. It appeared clear to him that Sir William Denison would decline to carry the measure into execution in the colony of which he was governor —at least such, as far as he Lould infer, were the tenor of big opinions; and it would not be the first time that a colonial governor had re fused in the same manner. The Government had been refused by the Governor of New Zealand, who said it would involve the loss of the colony if he attempted to carry out the abortion of a constitution which Lai been passed for it; and doubtless the other governors would eo likewise. He called on the Government, therefore, te acknowledge at once that this was the last of a series f failures is making constitutions for the colonies, and 'hat It was the final attempt of Lord Grey to concoct an omnibus constitution, which should sweep down half ade s-n colonial constitutions at a time. He thought :fiat every man should discard the infamous proposition that, because a vicious constitution was given to one co lony it should be given to all colonies in the same latitude. It would be a double injustice in this case, which he hoped the House would never sanction. Another proposition which the House should lay aside for ever was, that two such colonies as New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land were so completely connected together, that the arguments in support of the proposition of a constitu :ion fir one should serve equally well for the other. The two constitutions presented themselves under two eiffeieat aspects--the one as a basis constitu ti re the other as offering the means for in determina'e and unlimited adaptation to the wants of the colonies. The question at issue was not so nmeh a single chamber versus a double, as the adoption of the central or municipal principle in reef eat or c( lonia] government. The central principle was that under which the mother country restrained the power is her can hands, sad made the Colonial-office, with its vete, its patrcnage, its books, its useless dit • patches, and its dilettnite legislation, the be-all and end all of the colonies. The municipal principle was that =under which the colonists, by the aid of th e repre sentative s y stem , governed themselves in all local natters. A singie or double Chamber was only the Shibbole VI between these principles. The Honourable Member then quoted De Lolme to show that this writr-ir laid it down as an undeniable proposi tion Chet the solidity of the English Constitution was owing to the division rent legislation of England into two estates. The Government had suggested that there was no union among the colonial reformers in that House on the subject of the composition of an upper chamber; but that was not dse fact. There was no disagreement on the great point that there should be two chambers, and chat each estate should be separate and independent, be cause they desired to establish a Conservative element in the constitution. To this proposition the Government was perfectly antagonistic; and he (Mr. Adderley) could nit but feel surprise that the men who some twenty years ago convulsed the country because a peer or two had the nomination to a few seats in Parliament, should now pro pose of their own accord a constitution for the colonies of this country, by which 33 per cent, of the representa tives of these colonies would be nominated by the Crown. —(Hear.) Comparing the proposition of the Govern ment with that of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark, he could not for a moment hesitate which to choose, if a choice were imperative. The latter was a statesmanlike plan—the former was a futile piece of legislation. Lord J. RUSSELL would not have addressed the Ilouse at that period of the evening if the Hon. Gentle man had not questioned the information supplied by the Government. That isefstermation consisted of dispatches from governors of the Monies and other persons in pos session of the means of knowing the facts. The infor mation of the lion. Gentleman a as deferred until favour able breezes, though there could be no doubt the breezes that came to him came not from the colonies, but from the Jerusalem Coffee-house.—(Laughter.) The House would remember that in Sir H. Young's dispatch it was stated that a meeting of colonists at Adelaide was to take place the following Friday on the subject of the constitution. B y j ournals that had come to hand since then, it appeared that this meeting did t a k e p l ace i n th e Exchange; that th ere were 2,000 persons present, includ. lag those coming and going; and that there were railer less than from 1,200 to T M OO r. i ,h‘ individualsis in the great • room. At that me e tin g Fisher moved the first resolution after readi ng aclause of the h ßul—perhap s th a t speech then under discussion —a nd his s was to the e ff ec t that one chamber was sufficient fo p rt e he present wants of t he colony, and that a second chamber composed of m• minees of the Crown, appoi n t e d for life,an desired.— (Hear, hear.) He then spoke i n its favonr in a style w hi c h offered a strong contrast to the violence and tt e i nv ective in which the Hon. Gentle man and the lion, Baronet had indulged against the Gover nment and the Colonial- office of this country. The resolution went on to say, " That the Bill laid Wore Parliament, in so far as it re'absd to South Adelaide, met the wants and wishes of the colonists; and that the concession of a re presentative Government was to be regarded as a w i se and liberal measure." It concluded by stating that thanks were due to Lord Grey, Mr. Hawes—(A laugh)—Lord J. Russell, and Mr. Labouchere. for introducing and to those Members of the House of Commons who had given it their support. Tho Honourable Gentleman wanted the opinions of the people of the colonies. Here was the opinion o f a great public meeting, and it was in favour' of the proposition of the Government. — (Hear, hear.) The House es as already in pOssersfeet of q,e opinions of th e Governor and the Legislative Council nn tke subject, and yet the Honourable Gentleman main tained that the coloniits were severely oppressed by the Bill. As to the proposition of a single or double chamber, he (Lord J. Russell) was quite surprised to herr the lion. Gentleman say it was a secondary consi deration whether th e latter should be compossd of nomi nees for life or of elected M w In the opinion of her Majesty's Government there was s the greatest &fre roue bets een the tw o prieciptes, from the understood from the lion. Baronet that it was made an open Pe question with the) Colonial ReformßeformA:sociation whenthertleechamber should be composed of the nominees of elected for lif or otherwise, or whether they tb fleeted and' represent the pe o pl e of the c an, n y He owned ha 'thought that a most important distinction. but he would state, in a f e w wo r d s , hi s o bj ections to either of those propositions. If, instead of hying nominees of the Crc wn i n th e p ro p ort i on of omatliird in a chamber, where.' if the opinian of the rep resentat i ves was very decided, it would be enabled completely to overwhelm them, those eight or nine persons were to sitt in a sepal it!e character, and control altogether and put an absolute veto on th e l eg i s l at i ve measures of tho:representative assembly, he believed the intro. ducti:on of such a proposition would cause great dissatis faction in ;the colony, and he was not, therefore, disposed to enter Ain it. Then they had the other proposition of THE the Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark. To that his objections were of a totally different nature. His objection to that proposition was, that we were not at present in a state to come to any perfect solution of that question.— (Hear, hear.) He did not think they had, either from New South Wales or Van Diemen's Land, or any of those colonies, information sufficient to enable them to come to a solution of the question.—(Hear, hear.) It enieht be that it was difficult to find persons who would give their time to legislative measures in two chambers. He was net able to come to a decision even on that part of the subject. In the next place, the ques tion arose if they had a second elective chamber, which was to he some check on the more popular chamber, how was it to he composed, and what was to be the qualification of the electors? Were they to,le the same electors as those who returned the lower cham ber, or different? When he introduced a Bill fur the better union and government of the Canadas, he was for some months in correspondence with Lord Sydenham, the then Governor, who consulted persons of various kinds and high station, some of them being judges, some men who had conducted the administration of the colon), and he, after long deliberation, was enabled to send a tolerably perfect sketch of a Bill to introduce upon the subject. But in this case the Government had received no answer to any proposition of theirs. There fore, if it might be wise hereafter to establish such a constitution as two chambers, they were not now in a condition to legislate for such a purpose. It was a subject cf the highest importance. There were examples in our neighbourhood at this time, though perhaps no great attention was paid to them, which showed the importance even of de tails in such questions. In Belgium and Holland they had decided on having a second chamber, and that that second chamber should be composed of persons having a much higher qualification than the members of the more popular assembly; but in adopting that quali fiscation the Belgian Constitution provided that a cer tain amount of land-tax should be paid. The taxes on land and real property lately introduced in the consti tion of Holland were in the nature of our assessed taxes and taxes on houses; and the consequence of that dis tinction, which might seem a slight one, was,•that in one country (Belgium) you had great landowners and a most conservative chamber; and in the other country— he would not say they were not conservative—but men residing and having large houses in towns,Aind whose great expenditure took place in towns, and who were therefore a totally different class from persons in the second chamber in Belgium; showing how important an error might be even in a matter of detail.—(lltit.i) He really did not think the lion. Baronet the Megfiliber fur Southwark, in dealing with this open question of the. C olonial Reform Association, was endowed wittL made eons plete knowledge of the affairs of all these colonies, and the character of the population, either cf The. land owners or of the people of the town of Sydney, as to be enabled to speak confidently on the subject. It was said that the constitution proposed by• •the — Hun. Barcnet was modelled on the present constitution of this country. Ile observed that one of tl e propositions in the Hon. Baronet's new constitution was, that if two thirds of the two chambers should agree in reeking for the removal of the governor he was to be removed. That might be called an application of the principles of the constitution of England to the colony perhaps, but he certainly did not remember to have heard of the cc vereign of this country being removed by the resolution of a proportion of the Members of the Legislative Council.—(Hear and laughter.) With regard to a no minee council, therefore, it seemed to be a scheme so unpalatable to the colonies, that such an alteration would be received with surprise, and its repeal demanded, and he could not, therefore, recommend the Committee to adopt it. With regard to the second proposition, that of the Honourable Baronet the Member for South wark. which was much the best alternative, he thought they were not in possession of infor mation sufficient to guide them. It, indeed, the favour. able breeses which had brought the intelligence from New South Wales and South Australia—(A laugh)— should bring word that the people at large could net bear the notion of a single chamber, that might alter the matter; bat they all seemed to think that, although it might be advisable to have a second chamber in time, they would object to a nominee chamber, and the time was not arrived when they were able to say whet their mind was upon the subject, and what form of second chamber would most conduce to their wishes. If such then were the case, he asked the Committee not to be led away by the Hon. Member who spoke last, and think they were endeavouring to do something oppres sive to the colonies, but that they would feel that, on tl.e contrary, this was the introduction for the first time of the representative element into these colonies; that power was given them to elect their own legislator', which they never had before, thus laying the founda tion of a free constitution, under which he hoped they might long prosper.—(Cheers.) Mr. ANSTEY said the Noble Lord who had just sat down had so completely removed every difficulty raised by the Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark and the Hon. Member fur Northampt that he had almost doubted whether he should address any °beer% ations to the Committee. All the propositions e f the lion. Mem ber were of the most abstract and impracticable kind, and his motion would do serious mischief to amend ments which, but for that, would have come b. fore the Committee by this time. He believed that the colonists cared nothing about the question of one or two chambers; he knew that his instructions were to do his best to make the assembly:of representatives a real representative chew. ber. It had been asserted on both aides of the House that they were not in possession of the opinions of the colo nists, the fact being that the Bill had been before them two years at the least. The very circumstance of there being no petitions to the House or the Crown—no me morials to the Minister—afforded the most conclusive evidence cf the real sentiments of the colonists.— (Hear, hear.) The only protest came from the nominee coun cil, and he knew that for years past this Legislative Council of South Australia had been, on all important questions in which taxation was concerned, opposed to the declared will of those for whom they legislated. lie need only allude to their conduct with respect to the project for the endowment of religious establishments in proof of this. Meetings in favour of the Bill had been held in the colonies, and he hoped the Noble Lord I would not consent to any delay beyond what was neces sary for the consideration of the various amendments now before them. He believed it would he infinitely more difficult for the people of Van Diemen's Land and South Australia to obtain any reforms if the amendment of the Hon. Baronet the Member fur Southwark we re to succeed, than if the Bill of the Go. vernment were to pass in all its integrity. The result of that amendment would be the creation of a true oligarchy, which, when the protecting power if the Crown was withdrawn, would enter-into the full fruition of power, which they would not fail to make lasting and secure. Besides this, the Hon. Baronet had failed to support his proposition by any authority derii el from the colonists themselves', fur he could not view the private opinions cf an individual governor as a colonies authority, especially libel] Sir W. Denison himself; whose able dispatch had been relied on for this purpose, had stated them to be his pri*ate opinions, adding that be could not take upon himself to may that they were universal or general. He was of opinion that the scheme of two chambers was in itself a bad scheme; that was to say, it was not so good as one chamber only in colonies situated like South Australia and Van Diemen's Land; and he was also of opinion that it was only a better scheme than the plan proposed by the Nob!e Lord of having nominees of the Crown in a solitary chamber. With respect to so much of Van Diemen's Land as the amendment applied to, the authority of ,Sir William Denison was against the Hon. Baronet, for the gore► nor expressed his doubts whether in the whole colony a suf ficient number of parties could be found possessing the requisite property and leisure to constitute, under this Bill, a single House of Assembly. If so, what was to become of the other House, which required a higher qualification and an additional number of members. Under all the circumstances cf the case it was his inten tion to vote for the original clause.—(Hear.) Mr. AGLIONBY said the difficulty under which he laboured was the want of sufficient information on which to form an opinion. As an abstract proposition he had no hesitation in stating that a second chamber was de sirable, but being ignorant of the circumstances of the colony, he thought the colonists ought to have the power of carrying out that proposition when, and in such manner, as they themselves might think most desirable. In the first place, was an upper chamber desirable at this moment ?. The composition of such a chamber he would leave for future discussion. In January, 1848, Governor Fitzroy expressed his opinion in favour of an upper chamber, but from what had taken place in the colony a considerable difference of opi nion seemed to exist. In a dispatch received from - Van Diemen's Land, on the Bth April, 1850, and dated De cember 2, 1849, Sir W. Denison said that a sec ,nd Chamber ought to be at once constituted by Parliament. In a paper received on the 17th April, dated Adelaide, Dee. 17, 1849, the governor gave a series of resolutions passed by the Legislative Council, the result of which was that an upper chamber was desirable, although some doubt existed as to its composition. It appeared from other resolutions that the colonists differed from a.* governor, and did not w1;171a; - 1;iiiei chambEr. Upon the whole he (Mr. Aglionby) was in favour of an upper chamber. Now if the House should express an opinion in favour of two chambers, he wished to know whether the Government would be prepared to carry out the plan he had suggested, and give the colonists the power of deciding at what time the second chamber should be formed. He believed that our colonies would derive great advantage from the introduction of the represen tative Element into a single chamber. In New Z a7and the nominees had established a duty of from 12 to 15 per ten'. on every article used in British shipping sent flow this country. If the chamber had been elective, he believed that such a step would never have been taken. Mr. ROEBUCK said the Noble Lord seemed to con sider two chambers better than one, and an elective chamber to be better than a nominee one. The ques tion then arose when these two elective chambers should be constituted. The Noble Lord at the head of the co lonies said, " What am Ito de? Ido not know the state f the colony." In such a case he (Mr. Roebuck) would endeavour to point out de du.y of the Government. It. %Ili not for the few colonists now in existence to decide upon the future destinies of the hop( aid colonies of Great Britt.ir.. It would not be right to Land over. a question to be dealt with b y a few eel°. Liftg. great Imperial Parliameet ought t determine what w ou ld b e best for that large colonial empire which was about to rise in Australia. The mother country sett out a por tion of her people who, under the flag, the power, and the protection of England, planted themselves in those distant parts of the world. Ile wished them to stand towards this country in the relation of affectionate colonists, and that every portion of our stre t c hed-out empire should be go verned by those principles of freedom which prevailed in'% this country. To accomplish tha t object we must wake them part o f ou r empire by ma king them free sub jeetl, united to us in our Imperical concerns, but manag ing their own local concerns according to their own local knowledge.—(Hear, hear.) This was an important con sideration. How did we lose the United States of Ame- • LONDON, rica? By the want of forethought. Let not a similar blunder be again committed. Let the Noble Lord learn experience from the past. Let this country not again commence a series of events which must finally end in separation. We did so with respect to the thirteen great colonies of America, .which had now become inde pendent states.—(Hear, hear.) The question bofore the House tens, whether they would have two chambers or not. The Government proposition was a single cham ber, one•thild of which were nominees of the Crown. Another proposition was two chambers, one of them being elective; and then there was the proposition of the Hoc. Baronet to have both the chambers elective. In such a case as this he thought they might well permit their deliberations to be guided by the seasoning and the ex ample of the great founders of the American Republic. By them there were two elective chambers established. They thus established a principle of government, the want of which was even now felt in Canada. And now, in proposing a chamber, two-thirds chosen by popular election, and one-third by the Home Government, they established an element of quarrels. Why, he asked them, not try an a xperiment with their colonies which had been/found not to fail in the United States, begin ning at Ohio and ending with California? By such means they had established a Republican Government which took its place amongst the nations cf the earth. Let them not act as as if they believed Englishmen incapable or unworthy of institutions which they, as freemen, ought to demand. But then it was said, these colonists were ignorant. He denied it. They had acted as enlightened Englishmen in refusing to receive a contaminated population from this country, and in so doing they showed the dignity of their own na.ure and the purity of their minds. 'I he English Gc verunrent never bad made a colony; the English people had done so in spite of Parliament, and in despite of Downing-street. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord smiled, but this was no smiling matter. The United States showed what Englishmen could do when they were free from their official trammels. Let them com pare Canada with the adjoining portions of the United States. In the latter there was a great and a contented people; and in the other a faineant, discontented, " an nexation" people. Let them not have any doubt or hesitation as to Englishmen being able to govern them selves. Let them, he said, lay down a good principle, and then leave it to their countrymen to prove that they were of the same blood with themselves.—(Hear.) Mr. M'CULLAGH said that, notwithstanding the able speech if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he was es yet unaware whether he intended to vote with the Hon. Baronet or not. Those Hon. Gentlemen who were so much, afraid of now applyiag to Van Diemen's Land the principle, which they had acquiesced in when it was pro posed to apply it to New South Wales in the last Parlia ment, seemed to have forgotten altogether that then was the time to have been indignant at, and to have knocked on the head this proposition for a single chamber. The Bill which embodied that proposition was, however, gassed without a single division or protest against it; and in the House of Lords nobody said any - thing with reference to it but the Duke cf Buccleucb, on the second reading, and • his Noble Friend Lord Monteagle, who expressed his satisfaction at the mea sure. 'The exterienee we had had with regard to America pointed to this simple rule in legisla tion—that if we desired that the colonists should be 'animated with the spirit of the country from which they sprang, they should seek to infuse into them the babit•of finding remedies for their own wants, and adopting institutions for their own necessities. Hon. Gentlemen were assembled in a free senate, because their forefathers had gradually and slowly made the institu tions of this country what they now were; and they would never have been made otherwise. And we could only Lope that those who were to be the image of our institutions would enjoy the same happy fate and pros perity—if w e put upon them the duty--he would net call it the burden—of performing for themselves gradually, and as they progressed, that which was the most impor tant task that any free community could undertake. Lord J. MANNERS—The Noble Lord at the head of the Government had told the He use that so great was the ignorance cf the Government at d this House with re gard to the feelings, wishes, and position of the colonists for whom they were about to legislate, that they could not fairly and properly take upon themselves to say whether one or two chambers were better too the' Australian colonies or not. If the Noble Lord was sound in his reasoning they would thus be debarred not only from deliberating upon the pro priety of having one or two chambers, but from deli berating upon this Bill at all.—(Hear, hear.) When the Noble Lord said that two chambers could not bo legiti mately settled by this House, he would allow him (Lord J. Manners) to Ink by what process of reasoning he had arrived at the conclusion that the House, in the absence of that necessary information, could take upon itself to say that a federative assembly of all those Australian states ought to be calls(' into existence? True, he read a paper to show that so m e m an if es t a ti on o f feeling bad taken place in one of the colonies against the proposi tion, not of the Hon, Member fur Southwark (Sir W. Muleswol th), but of the Hon. Member for Mulhurst. But if a newspaper report, which had not been seen by Hon. Members, was to be taken as evidence, he (Lord J. Manners) asked the Noble Lord if the paper then lying by his side might not be taken as equally good evidence that the proposition ccntained in the Bill was distasteful to the population for whom he was about to legislate? So far as he could gather the feeling was unani mously against a federative assembly. Why, then, were they to be debarred from considering the question of two chambers, whilst they were competent to legislate not only with their ignorance, but with their knowledge of the opinion of the colonists upon the subject of a federa tive assembly? They were called upon to lay deeply and broadly the foundation of a colonial constitution, which should afford a shelter to law and to religion. He should have thought that all experience, all analogy, and all tradition al feeling would point to a second chamber as the more preferable form of a legislative body. But the Hon. Gentleman dived into the recesses of Ameri can history, and brought to the notice of the House two circumstances, which, however, had been satisfacto rily disposed of by the Hon. Gentleman ho sat near him. The Hon. Member referred to Virginia; but what was the burden of his story ? Why that Virginia, after some y ears, found the anomaly and confusion created by the system so great that the system broke down under the burden—and with a candour that did him credit, the Hon. Member also admitted that every one of the Ame• rican states, as soon as they had the opportunity, upset the very sy ate in he now called on the House to adopt for the colonies.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member spoke of the single chamber of France. What was the spectacle the capital of that country presented? Why, tl at the very existence of civil society depended on the struggle fora single eeat in this single chamber between a licentious novel- writer and an heroic tr, adesmar.—(llear, hear.) He thought there was no need to refer to the tx perience of the past—the experience ci common sense would suffice to tell them that a double chamber was the best for all purposes. He did not hear the principle openly repudiated by her Majesty's Government. The Noble Lord, however, took care not to indicate a preference for a single chamber. But this was to be expected from those who aspired to tread in the footsteps of Pitt and Fox. He would detain the House for a short time by referring to an expression of opinion by Mr. Fox in 1791, when the Quebec Bill was debated. The opinion of that statesman was to the effect that it was indispen sably necessary to make aristocracy a branch of the Ca nadian constitution, and for that purpose there ought to be a legislative assembly established to correspond to hereditary peers in the British Parliament. Govern matt did na openly repudiate this opinion—they simiry passed by it.—(Hear.) The papers on the table of the House showed unmistakably what were the opinions of the governors of the colonies. The Noble Lord had told the House that the opinion of the Legislative Council of South Australia was of little worth, as the members were nominees of the Crown. If that was a valid ground for placing no value on an opinion, what would be the worth of an assembly to be constituted under the Bill of the Noble Lord ?—(Hear, hear.) Was it not clear, from all that had transpired as connected with the subject of colonization of late years, that Government could not do too much to create enterprise in that di rection? How could a combined movement be secured unless by holding out inducements for respectable par ties to go out to the colonies? If you desired to see men and women of gentle blood and high breeding led to take a part in the colonial enterprise of the day, it could only be affected by holding out a new home, in which they would find the refinements, the courtesies, and, may be, those honours which in their own country they would not be debarred from?—(Hear.) It was partly on that ground he was anxious for a second chamber, net that he thought it would be wise at once to create an hereditary chamber, such as the Legislative Council of South Australia recommended, but became, by laying the foundation deeply and broadly, they might rely on it feelings would spring up which would in tune enable the colonists to carry out sound constitutional prin ciples to their full development. This was one of his main re asons for supportuig the amendment of the Hon. Baronet. He might quote numerous dispatches which had been recebtly received in support of his views, but ha would not du so, as they doubtless were familiar to the House. Those dispatches, however, must have due weight with those who wished to do justice to the colo nies. —(Hear, hear.) He was anxious the House should decide in favour of a double chamber, because of his conviction that, by including as much of the aristocratic element in the government of the colony as was advisable, we should see the benefits of it in after time. Whatever might be the decision of that House, he should have the satisfaction of knowing he had done his duty, and he would now venture to ask the House to support the pro position of a io lued of t n h d e Hon. benefitedßaronet,by t h efeei9lisut.gitucto.inovnisn_cweed dtheraitveads from our for. fathers, so it ti as right South Australia should also enjoy the benefit of similar institutions. Mr. KEOGH said many of his fellow-countrymen felt a great interest in these colonies, and this induced him to address the House. The Hon. Baronet had stated that it was right and proper Englishmen should have laws made by a majority of their representatives ; this he concurred in—but tilt n the nor. Bacot et's amend• meat was totally t at variance with amendment who support ed b that colonic.; shculd Le allowed to govsrn themselves, did that s princ i ple, on t h Those e groundand to moeel their own constitution. But which party, ho asked, carrbd out those principles best—they only who supported a single chamber, with a power to change a constitution according to circumstances, or they who wished to have two chambers withi ut such an import at. t power ? The Governor of S 3 (key in his dispatches called attention to a numerously-signed petition, the prayer oF which was to hope her Majesty would not sanction any alteration in their constitution without first con sulting the colonist?. But had the colonists been con sulted on this subject. He asserted they had not, and he would undertake to prove that the colonists were in favour of a single chamber. At the various public meet. Tugs, the speakers were generally in favour of a single chamber, on the ground that at the pi esent time proper materials for a second chamber did not exist in the colony. He was not contending for the superiority of a single over a double chamber. Ile did not mean to say that at some future time a double chamber might not be expe dient, tut be advocated a single chamber, because the sentiments of the colonists on Volt point had been so un equivocally expressed. The last dist . etch feom Gover nor Young stated one remarkable fact which dieentitled the resolutions cf the Executive Council to any *eight whatever. The fourth paragraph in the dispatch would fully bear cut that assertion. Governor Denison's opinion bad been too much relied on—for, in 1848, be had given an opinion which was adverse to the opinion he gave in 1849. The Hon. Member for Southwark considered that the proviso requiring the signification c f her Majesty 's pleasure to any enactment was conclusive in favour of his views. But the people of the colony did not so regard it, for he found in the Adelaide Times of the lit of October, 1849 —a paper which was opposed to Government, and which demanded the most extensive powers for the people—he found in that organ of the public opinion of the colony a statement, after mentioning that the Bill, besides giving the power of amending the repreeeetatior, provided for making any other amendment that experience could suggest; that it the Bill were carried out they should be quite content with it, notwithstanding the stipulation that those amendmente, in order to their becoming valiti, should be submitted to her Majesty's p 1 aoure and to Parliament. Was it then open to the Hon. Member for Southwark to say that the clause was powerless to giie the colonists what they desired ? The object of the Bill was not to es tablish a permanent single chamber instead of a double one. On the contrary, it empowered the colonists to establish two chamfers if they choose ; and though the lion. Gentleman had contended that if the Bill were asscd a double chamber would ne ve r be et teblished, he must take the liberty of thinking otherwise should the colonists see fit to mike the change. He raw nothing to prevent their bringing the force of the public opinion of the colonists to bear upon their representatives so as to effect that a:teration whenever they choose. Ile cautioned the House against adopting any suggestion coming from the Colonial Reform Association, not one of whose members concurred in opinion upon any one sub ject but that of colonial reform, and even on the nature of that reform they were not agreed, for the Hon. Member fur Midburst (Mr. Walpole) proposed that ore o: the two chambers should consist of members nominated by the Crown. The Hen. Member for Southwark pro posed two elective chambers, while the Hon. Member for St,ffordahire (Mr. Adderley) had some other pro ject; besides, notwithstanding the assertion of the Lion. and Learned Member fur Sheffield (Mr. Roebuck), he contended that the Bowe had not sufficient information to enable them to decide upon a question of such impor tance as the adoption of a double chamber. Mr. DISRAELI understood they were in Commit tee on the sixth clause of the Bill, and that the point in discussion was, whether in the projected con stitution for the Australian colonies there should be one or tyro chambers. That, Le apprehended, was the subject for consideration, and there - fore, though the Henourable Gentleman who had just spoken had told them that that was not the question only, but that in the Bill there were powers which the colonists might avail themselves of to have a second house if they nought it necessary, he (Mr. Disraeli) apprehended that those were considerations which ought net to affect their vote that night.—(fleas,hear.) The consideration of the sixth clause really involved the question whether they were that night to decide if this new colonial constitution should possess one or two chambers, nor were the elements of the composition of either one chamber or the other at all at issue at that moment. Those were considerations which were apart from the sixth clause, he thought; end not only that it was quite us well that the question should be divested of those other considerations, but that the question in itself was sufficiently grave. He hardly knew any one more difficult to decide upon, or any occasion on which the responsibility of a vote should be felt more sensibly by a Member of that House. The question, however, was not new to the House. Of late years it had been necessarily brought before the consideration of every. Member. He thought it was not four years ago since there had been a change of govern mew, and a new government was founded upon other principles —one of which was colonial rtfurm. In a question so extremely difficult as the construction of a political constitution for distant colonies, gentlemen na turally looked with great expectation and .respect to the existing government of the day to be their " guides, phi losophers, and friends."— (Hear.) The Government were not long in existence when they gave to the House an inkling of the policy which they thought ought to be bursued stilt respect to the question now under con aideration. A constitution for a distant colony being contiguous to that the constitution for which was now under discussion, was presented to the House, and they had an opportuuity of taking the opinion of the Govern ment, especially those members of it who were known as colonial reformers, upon the subject ; and on that first subject e f a constitution for a distant colony, three years and a half ago, the Government were ofopinion that there should be two chambers. Some time afterwards another project of a colonial constitution—a constitution, indeed, for one of those very colonies—a colony cf still greater importance than any he had adverted to, and after still more mature reflection, after having been in office some little time, and after having profited by their former experience arid previous experiments, the Go vernment again produced a project of constitution which again included this plan of two chambers.—(Hear.) So far, then, the Government, during their still somewhat brief career, had offered to the House renewed instance s of their approbation of the principle. But a greet change occurred after that latter instance in the policy of the Government. In their projects the Government had not been fortunate; both of them had been rejected by the populations to whose necessities they had been addressee),, and a very considerable change took place in the manner in which the Government pre pared their future operations. And he was rathe r surprised the llouse bad not dwelt more in detail, and with more interest, upon this very remarkable character, Almost unprecedented in recent Parliamentary history, of the mode of proceeding adopted with respect to those very communities. There suddenly was a de lea.ion of the duties of the Secretary of State for the Colonies to the Comminee of the Privy Council—a very remarkable circumstance, because, after a Government distinguished by the liberality c f its me mbers, and re markable for the very great reputation of the individual who presided over the colonies—had taken office—aft r great promises they had held out to the country of the great salutary changes in our colonial system, it was very remarkable that the Secretary of Sate for the Colonial Department should announce that he was incapable of forming an opinion upon all those subjects which were considered as the very subjects, the ability to form an opinion on which formed the qualification of a man to be Seere tary of State for the Colonies.—(Hear, hear.) They were told that those were subjects of great difficulty— viz , that the construction of the system and the settle ment of the principles on which emigration should be conducted, according to which the wa to lands should be sold, and on which the political constitution of the colo nies should be settled —that those were subjects of such extreme difficulty that the Secretary of State found it necessary to deli gate the performance of his d ut i es , an d the decision of those important points to a Committee of the Privy Council. lie would bare thought, that if a man was not capable of incurring the responsibility of advising his Sovereign in Council as to the decision to adopt on those subject.—if, as a member of the Ca binet, he was not prepared on his own responsibility to decide on the matter of colonial government, when points so very important, and which had been so long discussed, and which had SO occupied the attention of all statesmen connected with the colonies, as the sale of waste lands, the conduct of emigration, and the principles on which political constitutions were to be offered to the colonies—he should have said that such a man was the last person who should have been ambitious of being Secretary of State fur the Colonies.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord said " Hear." He was glad he had condescended to attend to his observations. The Noble Lord was a great constitutional scholar, and per haps he would explain that difficulty. Well, then, the Performance of the duties of Secretary of State for the Colonies was delegated to the Committee of the Privy Council. It was they who were to decide on the sub ject. They knew who the members of that council were, for they had their signatures to a document. One of them was the nobleman who now filled the office of Lord Chief Justice of England. He believed all felt that the manner in which that Noble and Learned Lord would discharge the arduous duties of that high office would make him go down to posterity with a reputation as eminent as that cf any of his predecessors.—(Hear; hear.) Lord Campbell was then Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and for that Noble. and Learned Lord be had very great re spect, but he wanted to know why should not the Secre tary of State for the Colonies be responsible fur the per formance of his duties in treat capacity, and not the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster; the second mem ber of the Committee e f Privy Council was the Right lion. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade (Mr. Lebouchere). He had no doubt that the Right Hon. Gentleman had every qualification to be Colonial Minister —h e had very greatly distinguished himself as Under-Secretary for the Colonies—but, if he was to be Colonial Minister, he (Mr. D.) preferred he should be responsible for the administration c f the colonies, and not another person, who born the title c f the office and left to him the performance of its func tions. But the House had every security in Lord Campbell and the President of the Board of Trade—for these two members of the Committee of Privy Council were Members of Parliament. They could, in the House of Lords or the House of Commons, bold them responsible for the advice which they gave to the Sovereign, however much they might disapprove of the system on which their advice on such subjects had been solicited. But there was a third member of the Committee of Privy Council on whom the fulfilment of the duties pertaining to the office of Colonial Secretary was devolved—a gentler an who bore the name of Sir Edward Ryan. He was not a Member of the House of Commons, he was not in the House of Lords. How, the ns, was the responsibility of the Minister in the person of Sir Edward Ryan to be secured? If he wanted to know where tl at gentleman was, to secure his re sponsi bility, he must send for the re d book, and, i f he lived in a hotel, the responsibility of the Minister in his person was not to be fixed. Yet it was upon his advice thet the Ministers who, for a very con sidersble period, had announced to the Ilcuse their ad hesion to the principle of two chambers, had b en drawing up systems of le giolature according t ) that principle, pa ss i ng them in that House, and sending them out to the c o l on i es —i t was upon t h e a d v i ce o f that gen tleman, and of the Commit'ee of Privy Council, of which he was a member, and to whom the fulfilment of the du ties of Secretary of State for the Colonies had been del, - gated, in consequence of that funet'onary's previous failure and pure incapacity to fulfil the duties of his office—that Ministers now suddenly called on them to adopt this new project of a single chamber. Let him first call the attention of the House is the most im- had been the basis of the whole policy ef. the Govern ment—nsmely, the report cf those Right Hon. Lords of tie Committee of Council, that report being dated the Ist of April, 1849. Perhaps the Noble Lord would tell him that there was nothing unconstitutional in submit ting a great public question to the consideration of the Privy Council of Trade and Plantations. But it should be remembered that the Lords of that Council were i'seembers of Parliament. In the present instance the vice cf the old system c f governing this country by coun cillors, with whom the people were not acquainted, had been adopted and revived by her Majesty's present Mi nisters. Now, let the House hear what had been the lan guage employed by the Committee of Privy Council on that very question of a single or a double chamber.— (The Hon. Gentleman here read an extract from the report of the Committee to the effect that it was in their opinion desirable that the political institutions of the British colonies should be brought into the nearest possible analogy to the constitution of the United Kingdom; and that the general practice had been to grant double chambers to our colonies; but they added that circum stances of a peculiar chat aster had reluctantly c mpellsd them to recommend a departure from that practice in the present instance, and the appointment of only a single house of legislation.) New it appeared that the only reason which had induced the Committee to offer that advice was the state if public feeling in New South \Vales upon the subject The Honourable and e•ned Gentleman the Member for Athlone (Mr. Keogh) had triumphantly arpeuled to a great public meeting held at Sydney, in which the idea cf a second c hember had been universally coudemr ed. But be (Mr. Disrse:i) wished to know what sort f a second chamber it was that had be en so denounced. —(hear, hear.) He wanted to know whether it had been put to the inhabitants of Sydney or to the colonists of New South Wales genet ally that the second chamber was to be the chamber indicated by the Hon. Baronet the Member for Sotithwailr.—(Hear, hear.) Ue doubtedly if the inhabitants of Sydney were asked whe ther or not they were in favour of the establishment of a second chamber choke lull of the nominees of the Go verment, he should not be surprised if they were to re ject the offer with derision and indignation. He had said that the duties of the Secretary of State had been dale gated to the Committee cf tEe Privy Council; and the Noble Lord had appeared to doubt the accuracy of that st itement. Lord J. RUSSELL said that neither the question of emigration nor the question of the waste lands had been reserved for that Committee. Mr. DISRAELI said he found that among the mat ters referred to, upon which the Committee had offered their opinions, were the division of the colonies, the es tablishtte nt of municipal councils, the levying of district rates, the management of waste lands, the details of the civil list, the duties on customs, and the appropriation of the revenue derived from the sale of land. With all these questions he found that the Committee had dealt, 'notwithstanding the statement of the Noble Lord that some, at least, e f those questions had not been submitted fur their consideration. The Ce mmittee in the course of their report alleged that until the commencement of the nineteenth century the almost uniform wage had been to establish kcal legislatures consisting e f three estates—a government nominated by the Sovereign, a council nominatei by the Sovereeign, and an atsembly elected by the people. Now, he had never before heard that her Majesty was one of the estates of the realm. lie had always understood that the three estates of the realm consisted of certain classes of subjects invested with political privileges. There were three estates of the realm in England —the estate of the Lords spiritual, the estate of the Lords temporal, and the estate of the Commons; but to say that the Queen was an estate of the realm was to say that she formed a class of her own subjects. Yet those a ore the Gentlemen to decide on the question of a single or a double chamber.—(Hear.) Nor was that a mete slip of the pen, for he found that in another and a most impor tant portion of the document the same statement was re peated. Those Gentlemen, therefore, who were drawing up con: titutions to be sent out to the Antipodes were ab solutely quite ignorant of what was an estate of the realm, and classed the governor of a colony as such an estate.—(hear.) He fouled that within a very brief period her Majesty's Ministers had been advocates of a double chamber in two cases in which they mutt have pondered long over the measures which they had intro duced—reessures which at great risk and trouble they had sent on the longest and the most fruitless voy ages that had ever awaited any legislative enter prise. In the middle of the period of four eventful years, during which her Majesty's present advisers had be en in office, they fund the Secretary of State for the Colonies —that hot colonial re former, whether from a too sensitive feeling of his failures, or the upbraiding remonstrances of his colleagues—they found him abdicating his functions and appointing a Committee to fulfil his duties; and the result of the labours of the Committe a was to produce a change of opinion on the part of her Majesty's Government on the vital principle which the House was thee' discussing. Now, it appeared to him that the House might safely come to the conclusion that her Majesty's Ministers were not the best and most infallible guides whom they could follow on that subject. What did the Government mean to do? Did they mean to lay it down as a principle of their conduct that they should act exactly in accordance with the general feeling of the present inhabitants of the colony? One would almost inter that from some of the speeches they had heard upon the subject —from the eagerness with which the Noble Lord had referred to that heaven-sent joureal which happened to have fallen into his hands,' one would suppose that ;a public nice ting at a coffee e weuld be sufficient to de terming the course which the Government would pursue upon that ques tion. He (Mr. Dist sell) wished it to be understood that he was not recoaimend.ng any course in total defiance of the feelings of the people of the colony. Ile thought those fe clings should be consulted, and that the of eirs f so distant a settlement should be approached in a conciliatory spirit. But he could not coincide in tie opinion tl at they ought to decide that question solely iu reteience to the feelings of the colonists at the present u oment, even if they could ascertain what those feelings were. The Hue. Gentleman the Member for Dundalk (Mr. M'Cullagh) said that in dealing with that question, they ougt.t not to anticipate the future. But in his (Mr. DisraeliV ) op;nion, if they were ever to anticipate the future it was when • they were legislating for a colony.— (Hear, hear). Fur , his part, he should give his vote in favour of the prin ciple of anticipation ; he should give his vote in favour of the principle of two chambers ; and he wished to guard himself against being supposed to commit him self to the support of any certain form of second cham ber. He wished to avoid any unnecessary elements of controversy upon that occasion. He aas in favour of a second chamber, because he thought that, under all cir cumstances, it gave stability to a state. He denied that a second chamber was hostile to popular liberty., It might be hostile to popular passions, aid yet be the best security for popular liberty. He looked upon it as a re presentation of the conservative principle in its purest elements. lie believei that its tendency would be to secure society in the colony, to improve it, and to save it from the gusts of popular passion and caprice. He felt assured that if the question was properly put to the communities of Australia, whether they would have two chambers— provided alway a the second chamber was not to be filled with Government nominees—their deci sion would be universal and unanimous in favour of such an arrangement. lie felt persuaded that when the 'de bates in that House upon the subject should have be come known, and when the public in the colony should have become enlightened upon the point, the Noble through o u h g r o h w thatve however, Lord would find it impossible t o carry hi s measure into house. operation,Thhoo Noble however he Lord d ht m pa ig ss ht o it care for that, and O. e present would not be the first constitution re turned into his banes. But he wished the Noble Lord to profit by experience, and to prosper for the future in his legislative enter prises. He should have thought that after what hal occurred during the last Rime or four years the Noble Lord would nut have come to the House upon that occasion without having a clear conception upon this point —were the inhabitants of those colonies clearly aware of what was meant by two chambers? The in habitants of Sydney were mistaken if they supposed that those who advocated a second chamber were advo cating a second chamber composed merely of Govern ment nominees. That was not the feeling of the House of Commons or cf the country upon the subject:— (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Dundalk had told them that it was better to support the Government Bill than to legislate on mere theory. But was the opinion of the Governor of Van Diensen's Land a mere theory ? Was the opinion of the Governor of South Australia a mere theory ? Was the opinion of the Governor of New South Wales itself a mere theory? It was the duty of the Government when they came forward with a new project of that description, which they recommended upon an assumed acquaintance with the state of public optnion in these colonies—it was their duty to make sure that they had become accurately ac quainted with that opinion. It appeared to him, from all that he had heard or read upon that subject, that the Government ware not well informed with respect to it. Nay, more, the Secretary of State had told them a fen hours before that he was lamentably ignoraht upon the subject. But why should they legislate under such ig norance? What he ventured to tecommend the Noble Lend to do, was to inform himself better upon that im portant topic, and until he should have obtained that in formation, to delay his legislation.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HAW ES said he felt it absolutely necessary to nctice a few of the statements which had fallen from the lion. Gentleman who had just addressed the House. The Hon. Gentlemen had alluded to the Committee of the Privy Council appointed to consider various colonial questions, and had contended that the Secretary of State, by consenting to that appointment, had altegether aban doned his responsibility. But there was no complaint which he (Mr. Hawes) had heard more frequently put forward in that House and elsewhere than that the Se cretary of State had hitherto monopolised our colonial goverume t t ; and he could not therefore understated the objection of the Honourable Gentleman ,to the appointment of th e C omm i t t ee w hi c h h a d inquired into the policy which it was at present advisable to pursue towards our colonies. Let it bo remembered that the Secretary for the Colonies had only consult d ti e Committee for their advice, and that be held himself re sponsible for any course which he might a:terwarels pursue upon the subject. But how had that Commi tee been constituted ? The flori. Gentleman had himself bore testimony to the eminent ability of Lord Campbell, one member Committee ; illen there was Sir F. Ryan, a Privy Councillor, and formerly Chief Justice of Bengal ; and there was also Sir G. Sevens, who l ad long been distinguished at the Colonial-office for bis knowledge and ability. The lion. Gentleman had also said that it was in consequence of the report of the Committe e that the Government had abandoned the principle of two chambers. Again, th e Honourable Member was mis•aken. In 1842 Lord Stanley introduced a Bill, constituting a single chamber, which went through both Houses without a division,.and even without an observation, except one of congratula portant doetaneniCiallintheilposaession upon that subject, the one which they had last received, and which SATURDAY _EVEN LNG, APRIL 20, 1850. tion. So much for the ground laid by the Hon. Gentle man f.r the rejection of the Bill. But the Hon. Gentle. wan said the Government were ignorant—that Lord Grey had avowed his ignorance —and that they had re commended two chambers previously. The Government had certainly changed their opinion, but it was because ties colonists had expressed their satisfaction with the constitution of 1842, and prayed his Noble Friend at the head of the Col; nial-etfice not to alter it. Was there any thing to Le ashamed cf in that ? On the contrary, there was much to be honoured. The Bill wood on the broad principle that it was founded on a knowledge cf the Opinions and feelings of the colonists. Would asiy one pretend it was opposed to the wishes of the p e,rple of New South Wales? It was, in fact, only the exiting constitution of that colony. That it was not opposed to the wishes of the colonists of Victoria asis proved by the resolutions he (Mr. Hawes) held in his hard, wherein the people of that colony prayed for a council composed of 18 elected rr embers and 9 mem bers appointed by the Crown. It was opposed that all four color ins should have constitutions comprehend ing two legislative bodies ; hut the an s w e r t o t hi s was , that Nov South Wale s an Victoria were content with the constitutions they had, and desired no change. Were Van Diemen's Land and New South Wales satis fied? The pe ,ple c f those colonies had nut expressed their opinion on tae subject of two chambers. The Governor of Van Diemen's Land was certainly opposed to a single chamber, but he said be hal no pre cise weans c f knowing the sentiments of the color ial community, and then give his own opinion ; but it any decision could be arrii el at from the usual chancels of information, it winli appear that the colonists only de sired a single elective chamber, and not two bodies. The Honourable Member fur Sheffield said that it was the duty of Parliament to frame the best constitution in its power for the co:onies ; but he (Mr. Hawes) unpin ideally denir d that proposition. Ile stood on a broad principle. If a constitution was to be framed, it should be framed, in his opinion, in conformity with the wishes of the colonists, and not in pursuance of the views of any individual Member of that House. That was the cause of the duration of the Ameri can Coastitution— all of whom had begun with a single chamber, and established a second us a necessity of their conformation, in the coarse of time. It would be the same with the celoray of New South Wales in due pro cess. With reference to the objections raised on the operation of the 35. h clause, he (Mr. Hawes) would clearly state that the policy of the Government, in con ferring power upon the colonists, was to permit them honestly to exercise that power for the purpose of ame liorating their constitution. Hitherto the Crown had been constantly opposed to the colonial constitutions, but now powers of haat self-government were conferred on Australia, which were intended should be exercised. Reference was made to Lord Grey's dispatch of 1847, proposing two chambers for New South \Vales, but the course adopted by his Noble Friend was to adopt that constitution which the colonists were attached to, and give them the means of im proving it. Was that a policy to be condemned as it had been by the Pon. Baronet and the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire? In framing a Bill such as that under discussion, the colonies were obtaining that expansive form of government which was beat adapted for their present state, as well as for their future extension. If, however, the amendment proposed were adopted, a delay would take place, which would cause great discontent, and mate. ially impede the application of the measure on the colony. He (Mr. Hawes) there fore entreated the House to conciliate the colonists by waiving its right to legislate fir them, and by deference to their feelings aid opinions to lay the foundation of a work which they would look up to with pride and satis faction as the production of their own hands.—(Hear.) Mr. DISRAELI explained. He had omitted the name of Sir J. Stephen, because he had not signed the report of the Committee of the Privy Council. As to Sir Edward Ryan, who the Lion. Gentleman said was a chief justice, all he (Mr. Disraeli) could say was, that he was sorry that two chief justices should have to decide upon the colonial policy of this country. Mr. SCOTT then rose, amidst loud cries for a divi sion. He was understood, in the confusion, to say the majority of the colonists had expressed themselves against the plan of a single chamber, and in favour cf a double chamber. Recent accounts showed that it was condemned at a public meeting in Hobart Town, Van Diemen's Land; while at two public meetings held at Port Philip and Sydney, no resolution was come to on the question, though the speeches were all against it. Silence gave consent. If there was one duty more than another iecumbe nt upon the governor of any of our colonies, it was that he should particularly define such a form of government as they ought to enjoy. —(Loud cries of "Divide.") Mr. MO WATT said the present Bill was brought forward in such a fair spirit, and was really such a de sirable measure, that he was unwilling to oppose it. The Hon, Member for Athlone had dressed the Bill up in such colours, that he felt it to be his duty as a colonist to say half a dozen words upon the subject. His prin cipal objection to the Bill was, that the colonists were not permitted in future to legislate for themselves as he thought they would wish. By the dispatch received from Sir W. Denison it would appear that the colonists under his goverment were so delighted with the idea of a representative government that they were not in a fit position to examine the measure now proposed—a measure which he regretted to say gave the nomination of one-third of the chamber to the Crown. For his part, he thought that it was the duty of this country to le gislate for her colonies, to profit by her experience, and to select such a form of government as might be calcu lated to work well. He would ask, could there be a doubt entertained of the decision to which the colonies would come as to the question whether they were to have two chambers or one chamber, with a third of it nominated by the Government ?—(llear, and wits of " Divide.") by could not sit down without expressing his regret !het the Pill should have such a blot in it as that to which he alluded.—(Loud cries of " Dit ide, di. vide.") Mr. BASS proceeded to address the House, amid loud demands for a division, but even the substance of what he said could not be caught in the gellery. Lord J. RUSSELL said it he did not think that some llon. Members were not exactly aware of the immedia.e question upon which they were going to divide, he should not have again troubled the House. The Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark proposed to leave out the words " of persons proposed by the Crown and elected by the people," and to substitute other words in their place. But the Hon. Baronet, in pressing his views with respect to the two chambers, did not state whether or not the two chambers were to be elective. Both the Hon. Baronet and the Hoe. Member for Buckinghamshire bud avoided that question; and, in deed, the latter had said that he would not bind himself to the two chambers to be so appointad. He thought it was of importance that the House should not comer to a decision ti throw aside the plan of the Go vernment without seeing what they proposed in its place. —(hear.) It they were to have two elective chambers without any persons appointed by the Crown, he would ask them were they sure that two chambers su composed would not be the echo of one another?—(flesr ) Sech would be the case if the House adopted the propo sition of the Honourable Baronet. Ile would ask them then to consider what danger they might not incur if they attempted to frame that Constitution in a different manner for that colony than they proposed framing constitutions for other colonies. The Bill they now proposed was in conformity with one which had been introduced by Lord Stanley in the year 1842. It had been laid before Parliament last year, had been sent to the Australian colonies, and from them no voice of dissent had proceeded. If that were so, if the colonists were pleased after examining its details, that, at least, was a proof that the measure would not be badly received in the colonies. The persons in this country connected with the colonial interests implicated in the Bill, had asked the House to pass it.—(Hear.) The Honourable Gentleman who spoke last but one had said there was no poWyr to alter the constitution subsequently. What he proposed was, that they should adopt a known principle of government before they at tempted to form what was a new constitution altogether. The colonists would be likely to receive it with glad ness now, but the only alternative of the acceptance of the proposition before the House would be to delay the measure for another year s and that would be a great in jury, and would to felt with great dismay in the colo nies. Ile trusted the Bill would be received with the view of ads ancing the interests of the colonies, and no thing else.—(Hear, and cries of " Divide.") Sir W. MOLES WORTH, in reply, said his proposi tion embraced four distinct alterations in the clause. The first cf them, upon which they would then divide, was upon the omission of certain words. The principle fer which he contended was that of the American states, and the question was whether they would adopt a spstem which had been only eight years in operation in Aus tralia, in preference to that which had been found to work so well, alter an experience of many years, in the United States.—(Cries of "Divide, divide.") The 1 alleries were then cleared, when there:appeared— For the amendment ... 150 Against it ... ••• 218 Majority against the amendment ---68 Mr. ANSTEY then propssed the omission of certain words in the clause, with the view of placing the carrying out of the Bill in the hands of the Got ernor, instead of the Legislative Council, but did not press it to a division. Mr. WYLD, who arose amidst loud cries of "Ad journ," said tie did not rise for the purpose of moving the amendment of which he had given notice, but to ask the Government whether it was their intention to make any peculiar provision for the convicts in Van Diemen's Land, because a very material point would arise upon that subject, as he held tine existence of free institutions and the continuation of transportation in come atible. should Lot fail to name an early day for We jr reading. H e move d , t h erefore, tha: tf e or der 10 charged.—Agreed to. The Xi erehunt Seamen's Fund Bid, which stood second rf adinr, was postponed. MERCHANT SHIPPING BILL. gOO% Mr. LABOUCHERE sa i d that tt is Bill, adve' , '.; lo t. for a fe.!( ad readin g , re l ate d to an al e r a tion of I T T' #0 nage of v esse l s , as i t IA present existed. • 0 r ,„,„ § oilt founded on the recommendation of the Com e' ( f last session, and had been circulated 9-oft the classes connected with the mercantile circulated , He believed that serious objections were e nterts7pol the Bill in its present form, and that it we el in o,' be right to press its adoption in the present en r ol (Lle,r, hear.) The subject, which was one Pseli difficult), ould be considered between this width s . 0 , session; and if he should then hold his present silli l t4 fell he thought, from the communications he bad " (1 40 that he should b e a bl e to su b m i t a measure on the lesl ject. He be gge d t h erefore to move that the B i ll be A v , a second time th a t d ay six months . — Motion egr ee i l 12 The ether ord ers were di sposed of, an d the adjourned at One o'clock. LAW IN TELLIGEN-Cl4l BAIL COUR7', A ril 19. I (Sittings at Ni s i P ri us, before Mr. J u stice CoLEritn6s a Cemmon Jury.) DAVIS U. DICKINSO N . 0 11 This was an action on a warranty, the dec t 1 , -a h r t i° r alleging th a t th e plaintiff had purchased a cow e'L e o lo Pendant, which w as warrante d to b e with calf, o"i:dial calve bib weeks, ta which alleg a ti o n the tit le- 0 0 had pleaded that at the time of the sale she vi tili tbt calf, but she aft erwar d s m i scarr i ed i n consequence -nf over-driving of the plaintiff. k Mr. James, Q.C., w i i h w h om was Mr. ITulbne peered for the plaintiff ; and Mr. Sergeant Sl' ee ' whom was Mr. Pearson, appeared for the defendant'or Mr. JAMES stat e d t h e case . The plaintiff was ° ilsot chant carryi ng on b us i ness i n the City, and the ciefr i3 bo ul a cattle-deal e r, f requent i ng t h e various fairs thro4ng the country. In N ovem b er l ast the plain° i ll . o plf anxious to procure a cow w hi c h would ; fi t - 0 0 , his family with m ilk d ur i ng t h e winter, and .our ",, therefore, nece ssar y th a t th e cow wh i ch h e thel to chased should b e i n so i nterest i ng a s i tua tion a- t tsi admit of her " calving down" in six weeks fr eal li te time. Accordin g ly h e i nstructe d Mr. Ilillinsdai‘lior tired cattle dealer and agriculturist, to go over to b $0 ton fair, and see if he could secure such a CO thillinsdale did so accordi ng ly, an d fi n di ng t h e dele,a eye in possession o f a l arge h erd of cattle, he selec e f— d cow in questi on , f or w hi c h the de feudant wacif; 9 1 ' guineas. Mr. Hilli ns d a l e , h owever, would only Vnrica and ultimately the bargain was struck at thasr o o ll the defendant warra n ti ng t h at t h e cow was in ca'' ; c ol would calve down in six we e ks. The . . ; ,000 was driven that d a y f rom Ki ngston to 13",..70411, and the following d a y to the plaintiff's Pf" 00 residence at Camberwell, where she was fen cer to be exceedingly f r i s k ey , i n f act, a complete breaker, and exhibiting symptoms which indicate: o lio , thing but being in " a s it uat i on t h at cows should `",i tet love bulls." A n i n f a llibl e test was then respit e w ilt which satisfied Mr. Hillinsdale that she was n°„d 0 0lo calf, and ultimat e ly s h e was returned to t h e defer 001 with an intimation that he must refund the Ine ce L' o ogl i had been paid for h er . Thi s he refwel to do. 1. 7, - $ lll he offered to e xc h ange h er f or another, and Wain -eye the matter end e d in th e p resent act i on at 104 id be course of which it was anticipated that there We l t e d a good deal of h ar d swearing, as generally 1345 in settling disput es abut quadrupeds. • 0 Mr. Hillinsdale was called to prove the purch ase the watr ant. area Cross-examined by Mr. S ergeant S HEE —Sb e „p to be with calf, but the best judges were liable No mistaken. Not being with calf, her asid e scarcely 5/. o yd John Chapman, the gardener of the plaintiff, y i r i b 0 1 that he received the cow at C am b erwell on the ,:hete November. She wa s put i nto a paddock "0-00 she was exc ee din g ly rest i ve, breaking a Ailed and getting in amon gs t th e ot h er cows. This inw - gt oti him to believe that she was not with en 1 4,4 1 0 at his recommendation the test already ref er s .' n As ° was put in practice, a n d th e resu l t proved that n'';asleri not in calf, and sh e was t h ere f ore returned to the so' who offered to refund tl a 9/. or exchange her i e- c jio other, but Mr. Davis demanded more. The defe, A l. denied having warr an t e d h er i n coarse terms , an n oo though the cow was l e ft w i t h hi m h e never wa ited.Pr the plaintiff or moved further iu the affair. „j; Cross-examined —When the cow was taken ' a- a ito the defendant he said he selected her out as being e ye calf bet ause she would run with the bull. Wh e d v aell was returned she app eare d t o b e t h o same s i ze 0 " he Rrec e-ex eived her t amined— Dwo months bef o re. isa rrie r ted—., -le cow could not have raj old - without his observing it. She was about two Yo u. " this spring. This w as the case. tte' 4 t Mr. Sergeant SUEE pointed out to th e y jury iRa-A0 d was an hiatus in th e hi s t ory o f t h e cow from the u,i-ies the sale and the day o f h er return. Th e man wb°"-tlisl her to Brixton was not here, and as ho should pre" for she was in calf a t the ti me o f t h e sa l e, i t wo uld h e d .i the jury to determine whether or no she had not sliPbrt her calf through over driving before she reache d destination at Champion-hill, Camberwell. 00 1 A nephew cf the defendant, named Bradshs fi ' n ur then called, wh o stated that Ilill l n s d a l e , w hen Il i !' 0 1 chased the cow, e xam i ne I h er very minutely. S,he°o4 at the time v e ry f u ll o f m ilk , and there co ul d doubt that when she was sold she was in calf o r me:est trifle would make a cow ma:carry. Eating thing ff the I edge, such as a piece of yew, would Li° Os Cross examined—A cow that miscarries 5130 0 bod afterbirth fur two or three days, and if this OW h eel; slipped her c a lf on t h e way home, i t must have " visible to any one familiar with cattle. 4 toll Mr. James Smith, a cattle-dealer, was at gi v b,,lts fair a hen this . cow was sold. Previous to the s' d - 0 0 1 examined het, and found she was in calf: defee a.ked too much for her, and he did not buy. Cross-c xanaita d—The reason he hit upon this Polo cular he,fir was that it was his faucy, and fsncy w e ilk' great way sometimes. The dtfaidant asked hi for her. This was the defendant's case. Mr. JAMES was about to reply, but, The jury said they had made up their minds t° for the plaintiff. O A verdict wa s a ccor di ng l y entered for the P - W damages 91. Mr. HAWES said the Bill contained no provisions rt Litive to the government of convicts. Mr. PEEL wished to know why the number of the Legislative Council in Van Diemen's Land was restricted to tat. my-fur, when no limitation was placei on the nu eber of the Members in New South Wales and West ern Australia. , s tel A disastrous accident occurred on the Malle ne ,ruer, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railway at Gainsborough T i n ,7 o 4: day morning. The down mail-train leaving Gaho uv i - 4 01 0 at 8.25 A.m., had passed over the bridge on the Spitec ig iael and about a quarter of an hour afterwards a fine e foie' called the Sysyphus, constructed by Sharpe and Co. e' of oe chester, was shunting on the down line; when it had g; r cler g the bridge by the len g th o f th e eng i ne, the cast -i r on fi pito snapped in the middle, and th e b ea d o f t h e eng ine fe „Vag/ the road, the ether end remaining connected by the C O line' with the tender, which came to a dead pause on te : 7l,cee The driver a. d stoker esca p e d w i t h out i n j ury. H a d a passenger-train, the consequences would have been eft* As there are points on e a c h s id e o f t h e b r i dge conv e rt the both lines, the traffic duri ng th e d ay passe d t h e b r idge ° IO ef• up-line without inter r upti on. G reat i nconven i enc e perienced by the carts, E t c., f rom th e country on the l n r d to the market. All of them h a d t o ma k e t h e i r way ruti:t Morton or by Foxby-la n e. Th e g i r d ers were clot se; foundry of Mr. Farmer, and were amply tested under t ' ol eo', perintendence of the engineers before the line was f P „, Whether, after all, there was some defect in the csenelr the molecules of the iron h a d b een di stur b e d in the'rcer tive cohesion by the variati on o f t emperature, i s note r , b e tamed with certainty. C as t-i ron g i r d ers w il l, b o Wev ot distrusted for the future, and public confidence will 'l ee r restored till the principle of safety be more correctly u mined in these bridges.—Lincoln Mercury. art ° THE Jowl R. SlLlDDY.—Several of the passe° an' by this unfortunate vessel have returned to OswestrP, they declare that instead of the plundering of the snip the wreckers, the crew, as soon as t h ey set all b an de , ; n psr pumps, went below and b ro k e i nto the boxes of tr sengers and took everything they could catch hold of. ott majority of the passengers set sail again from. LiverPtore' Monday last, in the ship A. Z., to try their luck once —Hereford Journal. [ADVERTISEMENT.]—The best Medicine for plaints incidental to Females are Holloway's Pille* -- ' c on ° Talbot, of Mitcham, informs Professor Hollowa that she br, siders it her bounden duty t o ac k now l e d ge the all onishiug, og nefit she has derived from taking his pills. At the ig ot of forty-five she began to suffer from a general deranger ee oos the system, langour, 'woo ll en l egs , and other ailments je%,, to females; and notwith s t an di ng th e most care f u l attenti b ibif the advice of eminent phy s . c i ans , h er wea k ness an d d e a to ol continued to increase untilshe ad o pt e d anot h er cours e, an well Holloway's Pills, and thi s i nes ti ma bl e m edi c i ne h a s 0 , 1 1 010 her to a soundness of health and buoyancy of spirits se u .,, c bad not enjoyed for some years.—Sold by all DruggistelL, _ Professor Holloway's Establi s h men t, 244, Strand LesuThre' (711 NORTH STAFFORDSHIR E „T o rt.; rences between this comp an y an d t he L on d on and an* Western Company have a t l eng th b een fi na ll y adjust7A's of a satisfactory arran g em en t entere d i nto un d er the i d P both companies, by which all litigation is supersede d, general adjustment of the traffic effected. - Mr. HAWES could assign no particular reason for axing the number at tws-nty-four, but it mu.t be re ti,e,bbered that in New South \Vales the Legislative Council was a repieseatutive body, .while in Van Diernen's L &nd it was a Crown legislature. • Mr. ANSI EY then proposed the omission of the pr,sLion ehich ..omitted the nominees of the Crown to seats in the . legislature with the members elected by the people. The Committee divided, when there appeared— For the amoJchnent ••• 27 Against it ... ••• ••• 159 Majority ... ••• --132 Clause 6, as a n e nd v d, was then agreed to, and The CHAIRMAN reported progress and obtained leave to sit again. HS. On the 10th inst, at BIR the T &kid' Forest-green House, , Surrey, Mrs. K. G. Ftarmer, of a son. 1. °' • the WI of On the 11th inst., in Merrion-square, Dublin, -dge, J. Purchas, Esq., M.A., of Christ's College, (Jambi' a son. • bits. On the 13th init., at Sharston, Northenden, Cheshire, - Josiah Roberts, of a son. fle lch On the 14th inst., at Woodfield-house, near 'bad e° Mrs. Bentley Shaw, of a daughter. ~,A O Ol On the 16th inst., Mrs. F. Lawrence, Milton-on -41 " of a daughter. At St. Alb, le JO'' _ Jan's, on t Hall, of a son. 'th inst., the wife of tb JIARRIED. ~ ide On the 15th inst., John Wise Stev ens E sq ., of lut i r glit`" wells, to Mary Tenterden, the y ounges t surv iving '•"*.-- of T. Abbott, Esq., of llorsmonden, Rent: ChA rlei On the sth inst., at Anton's hill, Berwickshire , Samuel Grey, Esq , second so n o f th e l a t e li o n. Sir ''f the Grey, Bart., to Margaret Dy sar t, youngest (laughte r - late General Sir Martin Hunter, G.C.M.G., . _ DIED. ~ willio ' ill On the 15th inst., at Tynemouth, aged 61, J. 11 • . son, Esq., of Wbicham. t of I r . On the 16th inst., a t B ec k en h am, K ent, M ar y, relierigh 0. Powis, Esq., late of Grafton-street, Marine•parade, ton, aged b 6. eg , On the 16th inst., at Farnborough, Warwickshire, Faille fourth daught er of V. Hotbed), Esq., aged 39. /ic tot On the 16t1: inst., at Stoke-next-Guildford, Kitty', re Mr. H. Webb, of Lambeth. r` _pat On the 17th inst., i n T av i s t oc k• square , Caroline La w niece of Mr. Alderma n an d Sh er iff Lawrence. On the 17th inst., aged 59, Susan na -Andrews, the Wire of T. Hibbert, Esq , of Lverton, near Lhierpool. be DO At Croydon, on the 17th inst, Elizabeth, relict of t • J. Bordwine, Esq. '- f''''- MERCANTILE MARINE BILL. Ur. LABOUCIIERE said he wished to withdraw this Bill in order to bring in an monde.' one. He of 0, London: Printed and Published by MURDOYOI)I4iIk co, No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Elms Oin „ n og strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the 10 ' — _ Middlesex, Saturday, April 20, 1850. .) S UN, sot gi PhOPR I the c om The CJ Queen N' The 14 rroDriet: Moder Tyro-t Annuc Half t] Zaten l birder Der cent. Prop Cr aqy 0 , 1 , ar4,d I, ______ Tin doh n Ca litchar:i eßev. - 4 Ptai n Charle s -reorze The p ( are anal de n ol e end other do aurance ne ' to Pro i , titined at 44,1 PEr 4,11.,. I YPOn t 1 1 17 ) 1 , t le once or P o , Ella Tri "ta -138 a' I:tatg,T A p i , Tlti i i ? e 4.‘,li, h itt: " hti,,,11 4,1 1 11 J 11 "e I 44 (1 re; oz V re 414, 1)1 Thi s tott e 4 , P a , Lles . %Ca