The Sun. — London, England, 1851-07-16 00:00:00

THE GREAT EXHIBITION. The crowds of visitors which the various ex cursion trains brought up to to wn at the end of the week are beginning to show perceptibly on the numbers at the Great Exhibition. Yesterday was the most crowded which the Exhibition has yet experienced, and the police returns show an increase of at least 10,000 over any former occasion. The following are the num bers up to five o'clock:— There had been admitted— At 11 12 1 • 2 3 ........................ , 4 ................................. 72,019 5 ................................. 73,446 At this time 14,844 persons had left the building, but the most crowded period was about four o'clock, when there were more than 62,000 persons present, and the mighty stream could scarce find room to flow along, so choked aad crowded were the various avenues. At the first opening the temperature was about 65, but it rose daring the day to 74, at which it stood at four o'clock. The total number of visitors at the close was 74,122. GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY. A special general meeting of the proprietors in this company was held yesterday afternoon at the Paddington Station, for the purpose of considering and approving, or otherwise, of an agreement entered into between the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway Com pany of the one part, and the Great Western Railway Company of the other part, on the 20th instant, for a lease, on certain terms and conditions, of the undertaking and works of the former company, from a Junction with the Oxford and Rugby Line at Wolvercot, near Oxford, to a Junction with the London and North-Western Rail- way, near Show-hill, for the period of 999 years. Charles Russell, Esq., the chairman of the company, presided. Mr. C. A. Saunders, the Secretary, having read the advertisement convening the meeting, The CHAIRMAN said—Gentlemen, at the half-yearly meeting, which was held at Bristol last year, I entered at some length into the agreement between the Great Western and th© Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhamp ton Railway Companies. I stated that from some papers which had just then been presented to Parliament by the Railway Commissioners, it appeared that a very full case had been laid by the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company before an eminent C barrister, whose decided opinion it was that there companies wag no agreement subsisting between the two 9 0 1 which could be enforced in equity, i ment de since been very strongly confirmed by th!3 ju g and that o d p c- nio p n has livered by Lord Cranworth on the occasion of an appli cation being made for an injunction to stay an agree ment which has recently been en tered into between the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton and the London and North-Western Companies. Bat though there were no legal agreement between the two companies, and though the agreements which had been made had been rendered null and voi d b y the proceedings and resolu tions of the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company itself, and not by any act of the Great Western, Company, we, nevertheless, had the same reasons for an alliance between the two companies which originally actuated us, and which, if possible, had become still stronger and more cogent, and we expressed to that company our willing ness to adopt any scheme for the renewal of the con nexion which we could feel ourselves justified in sub mitting to the proprietors. Several meetings were held between the directors of the two companies and several arrangements were proposed between them, but none of them were such as we could accept. From the first it had been attempted to insti tute against us a claim that our guarantee to the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton was on an un limited, and not a limited capital. That claim is con trary to fact, as evidenced not only by verbal, but by writ ten communications, which passed between the two com panies. It is contrary to the policy which has been in variably adopted by this company, as we never enter into any arrangements with any other com pany which are not strictly defined. We steadily and, I hope, succeaefully resisted that claim, and I am sure you will approve of our having done so.—(Hear.) It was attempted to be proved also to us that we should raise the rate of guarantee from 4 to 5 per cent.; but as no substantial reasons were assigned for this change, ex cept the necessities of the Oxford, Worcester, and Wol verhampton Company, we did not think that, in the po sition of our company, we should be justified in proposing such an alteration to you. •It was proposed, also, that we should undertake the lease of the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company, from Ox ford to Stourbridge, at a mileage rent proportionate to the whole rent of the entire line, but as that would give to us a moat unproductive portion of the line, and scarcely bring us to the verge of that district from which we expected to derive the greatest portion of traffic, I am sure you will also think we were right in declining that proposal also. It was then proposed that we should ourselves undertake the completion of the line from Oxford to Worcester, and leave the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company, with the aid of other northern companies, to complete the portion from Worcester to Wolverhampton. This again would only give us the unproductive portion, and hand over the productive portion to other companies. This also we thought it would be improper for us to accept. It has been said by those not acquainted with the facts of the case, that we throw overboard the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company. I have stated to you the leading proposals which were male to us, and I have done so not for the purpose of reviving any difference between the two companies, bat for the purpose of our own justification in answer to the allegations which every day are put forth, and also in order to satisfy your minds that no pro posals really ever were made to us such as we could have been justified in enter taining. But our opinion also was, that the time had not arrived when any agreement could be made with the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Com pany. I thought that the common interests of the two companies were so intimate sod so important that the time must arrive when such an agreement would be made between us; and I confess I thought also that those opinions were entertained by persons connected with the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company. It was, then, with the greatest surprise that we heard of the agreement that was entered into between that com pany and the London and North-Western Company. No such terms as those contained in that agreement were ever proposed to us, or even hinted to us; but that agreement having actually been entered into between those two companies, we did not think it right to offer any counter proposal, as was suggested to us by many persons. We did not think it honourable to endeavour to seduce one company from an engagement which it had made with another, whether it were wise or unwise, legal or illegal, by the offer of higher terms.--(Hear.) We do think it worse for your interests to enter into a race of competition with the North-Western Company or any other company to see which should outbid the other in order to obtain possession of any line of railway.—(Hear.) Such a coarse we did not think either judicous or cre ditable—such a course never has been adopted, and such a course never shall be adopted in this company. — (Cheers.) Bat, gentlemen, we entertain a decided opinion that the agreement which had been entered into was in itself illegal, and we were determined to bring that question to the test of a court of law. In the course of the proceedings it was suggested to us, indeed it was urged on us by counsel, that it would be unreasonable to ask a court of law to set aside an agreement with another company if we were not prepared to give another in substitution of it ; and, under these circumstances, we authorised our counsel, in the event of the agreement being proved to be illegal, and in the event of the Court thinking that it was right so to do, to state that we were prepared to give fully as good terms to the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company, as those of which we had deprived them. The:Nice- Chancellor (Lord Cranworth) granted an injunction for staying that agreement, and though he evaded the question of legality, he expressed his own very decided opinion that the agreement was illegal. This decision, for practically it is a decision , was of great im portance to a s in many ways. It was valuable as affecting an important question, which was then at issue ; it was valuable as affecting' many other ques tions of the same or a similar character. It came very opportunely to show that agreements, however large the promises they contain, or powerful the party from whew they proceed, are utterly fallacious if they have not the sanction o f t h e l aw, and t h at subtle and temp or i z i ng, a polic y rather than sound, practical, s welland asfarsighted, who pursued it, in liti gation and w though it might involve others, a expe ns e, , beneficial only t o th e l awyers who advised it, and injurious to every other Person, still, as proceedings of the the inevitable result , could not contend a gainst the enactments of the law o n the principle of public poli c y, as it is found written in t he acts and ceedings Legislature, and must in the end fail.—(Hear, ) It is too late to think of obstructing lines or systems of railway, which not only have been sanctioned, bu t Which are almost finished. Is is idle to think of o h. structing alliances which public convenience, local posi tion, common interests, and actual agreements have determined ; and it is the part, I will not say of wisdom but of commo n hens© to shape our m easures to meet the conditio n of or 1845, but as circumstances , not as they existed in 1844 they must inevitably exist in 1852, and to diminish by rational precautions and prudential ar rangements those evils whichno human avert, which every passing consum mation, and whichever. p day brings nearer to consum power can now more severe and more intense, if such arrangements gessiTe movement will render not adopted. The decision of a court of equity having set free the hands of be the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company, they us their readiness to enter into the e- neg i o n ti t a im tio a n te s d; to and arrangements which we have to-day he to submit to you as the result of our negotiations. T indispensable purpose of the Oxford, d ary and Worcester,most e nd Wolverhampton Company was to raise the necessar y money to complete th e i r line, and to render the capital which they have already spent on it productive. It has b een ascertained that for this purpose an annual sum of 82,0001. is neces sary-35,000/. to pay interest on debentures, an d 47 ,000/, to pay inter est on the preference shares th a t must be cre ated. This sum , therefore, of 82,000/. is made the first charge on the gross revenues of the Oxfo r d, Wor cester, and Wol verham p ton Company,ie d under e v s e u n c such sound before the se pa y m ent of working expenses, a curity that there can be little doubt that they will be enabled to raise the capital they require on mos t a dvantageous terms. The second charge on the gross revenues of t h e company is 6 0 , 00 0/. a year, which is to be paid to the 9 Great the Western Com pany for working expenses, so long as receipts of • the line are 142,0001. a year. 60,0001. on 1-1 -,000/ •13 4 2 Per cent., and the Oxford, Woreester, , d and Wolverhamp- I" Company are, therefore, not only gm the cost of THE SUN, providing themselves with rolling stock, but secure the working of the line on much more reasonable terms than they could possibly work it for themselves. On the gross earnings reaching from 142,0001. to 200,0001., the Great Western is to be one-third for work ing expenses, and the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton two-thirds for themselves; so that when the revenue amounts to that sum we agree to work the line for 33 per cent.—again a very great advantage to them. If the line produces only 142,0001. the interest of the Great Western is secure, but I think a more reasonable way, indeed a more business-like way, is to look at this agreement under the circumstances which we think most probably will occur. Looking at railways of nearly the same length—take, for example, the Bristol and Exeter Company—is it unreasonable to expect that a line like the Oxford,Worcester, and Wolver hampton, 90 miles in length, and running through such a district as that from Worcester to Wolverhampton, can yield a less sum than 4,0001. a week? Assuming that proves the state of the gross revenue, the following will be the effect of the arrangement which is now made. If the receipts amount to 208,000/. a-year, they will be thus applied:— Debenture interest Other preference claims ... £35,000 ... 47,000 ... .£82,000 First Charge ... Working Expenses. Up to 142,0001. gross receipts ... £60,000 Between 142 and 200,0001., one-third 19,334 Ahoy° 200,000/., one-half ... ... 4,000 83,334 Dividend to original shareholders — Two-thirds of the excess between 142,0001. and 200,0001.... 38,666 One-half of the excess above 200,000/...................... 4,000 --- 42,666 £2OB 000 This 42,6661. iorigina l per s c h e a n r L eh o n n ld l e ,4 rs s . o,o l o , l, the share capi tal is the resu lt which I think it reasonable to expect very the nearly 3 from the arrangement into which we have now en tered. The advantage to the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company may be briefly summed up thus,—that it enables them to raise the funds neces sary for the completion of their line, that it insures their getting that money on reasonable terms, that it saves them the cost of renewing the rolling stock, that it insures the working of the line on meat more advantageous terms than they could themselves possibly work it, and gives to the original shareholders every reasonable expectation of a moderate dividend for the money which they have invested. To the Great Western Company the advantages are, that we reduce the expenses of our line a little more by working their lino on the terms I have men tioned. that we shall bring a considerable addition of traffic over our main trunk line, and that we shall have given to us, in common with all the other original share holders, a reasonable expectation of deriving some return for the 180,0004 which we have invested in the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Com pany. These are the direct pecuniary advan tages which we shall derive from this agreement. There are other important advantages if we regard the arrangement as a distinct arrangement.—(Hear.) I believe that in every point of view the arrangement is desirable both to the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton and the Great Western Companies, and we (the directors) have the fullest confidence, therefore, in submitting it for your adoption.— (Cheers.) The epitome of the agreement, as already published in The Sun, was then read to the meeting. The CHAIRMAN then moved that it be received, adopted, ratified, and confirmed. After a very brief discussion the motion was unani mously agreed to, and the meeting immediately after wards separated. OXFORD, WORCESTER, AND WOLVERHAMPTON RAILWAY. An extraordinary general meeting of the shareholders of this company was held yesterday at the London Tavern, for the purpose of considering an agreement for a lease to the Great Western Railway Company of the line from Oxford, through Wolverhampton, to the Lon don and North-Western Railway, near Show-hill, for the term of 999 years. Captain Rushout took the chair. The CHAIRMAN opened the proceedings by apologis ing to the shareholders for appearing before them in his present position, which he said was caused by the seces sion of the late chairman. The present object of the meeting was to sanction an agreemenc with the Great Western Railway, negotiations for which had been commenced in consequence of the late judgment of Lord Cranwortb, in the case of " Beman v. Rufford," that the former agreement entered into with the London and North-Western Railway could not be legally carried out. The agreement now proposed with the Great Western would be equally beneficial to this company, and at the time of the hearing of the cause to which he had alluded, Mr. Bethell, the counsel for the Great Western, had professed the readiness of the company to use all their endeavours to carry out a fair understand ing. The agreement which was now laid before the shareholders would, ho thought, completely carry out the objects with which the company had first been formed. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving that the directors of the company be empowered to carry out the agreement, of which we subjoin an ab• street;-- "The Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company agree to complete their undertaking between Wolvercot (near Oxfo d) and a junction with the London and Nortu- Western Railway, near Wolverhampton, in a substantial manner, with a doubie line of broad gauge railway, and ad ditional rails as prescribed by Act of Parliament; and to lease it when completed, with the requisite stations, side ' lines and other accommodations, to the Great Western Rail way Company, for 999 years; the latter providing all the necessary locomotive stock, &c., to work the said line. "The Great Western Company covenant to pay 85,0001. , per annum to liquidate the debenture interest of the lessors, which sum is to be reserved to the Great Western Company as the first charge on the revenues of the railway. They are further to transfer to the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolver hampton Company, out of the gross receipts as defined in the agreement, a sum not exceeding 47,000/. per annum, to de fray preference dividends, and other liabilities of the lessors. "The annual sum of 60,0001. (subject to a contingent and proportionate reduction when 82,0001. shall not be required for the foregoing purposes out of the revenues of the line) is to be the next charge on the gross receipts, to defray the working expenses, rates, and taxes of the line which are undertaken by the Great Western Railway Company, sub ject to such reimbursement. " The excess of all receipts up to 200,000/. per annum is to be divided in the proportion of two-thirds to the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Company, in respect of their capital, and one-third to the Great Western Company, in respect of working expenses; and all receipts beyond 200,0001. per annum to be divided in equal moieties between the two companies. " Provision is made by clauses for insuring the proper traffic to the line, and developing it; as well as for an equal mileage distribution of rates, &c., for through traffic passing over both railways, and for working any portion of the line, if partially opened, before the completion of the undertaking. " The Stratford Canal, the Stourbridge Extension Canal, _ _ and the Moreton Tramway, are to be worked by the Great Western Company, and the revenues thereof first appropriated to discharge interest upon certain liabilities in respect of them, the balance belonging to the Great Western Company, to de fray working expenses, &c. " Accounts are to be kept in proper form, and to be open to inspection by the directors and officers of the Oxford, Wor cester, and Wolverhampton Company. Recourse is to be had, in all cases of difference, to arbitration, under clauses inserted in the agreement, and an extended agreement is pro vided for, with powers to the two boards to give full effect to it." A SHAREHOLDER suggested that the correspondence between the London and North-Western Railway Com pany, and the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway Company, on the subject of the late agreement, should be read. Mr. THOMAS, in seconding the adoption of the reso lution, said that no such correspondence had taken place. Both parties, on hearing the judgment of Lord Cranworth, had resolved to consider the agreement as void. The directors of this company, therefore, felt themselves bound to listen to the overtures of the Great Western Railway Company ; and though on its first appearance the agreement was not so beneficial as might have been wished, as a larger sum would now have to be earned before the original shareholders came in for any benefit, yet in its ultimate results he had no doubt it would be even more advanta geous. The London and North-Western certainly had renewed their offer, but the solicitor of this company ad vised the directors that it could not legally be carried out, and the shareholders would see that it these nego tiations had been renewed ;they would have had to en counter, perhaps, another Chancery suit, and certainly a strong Parliamentary opposition. In answer to a question from Alderman THOMPSON, M.P., Mr. PARSON, the solicitor, said that it must be evident that if a narrow gauge line were laid down between Ox ford and Worcester, as well as the broad gauge, the Great Western could not be expected to lay down a single gauge between Worcester and Wolverhampton. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON objected to being handed over to the Great Western Railway bound hand and foot. The most advantageous course would be to CORl plate their own road without any arrangement with i'llY other company whatever. To deprive them selves of the narrow gauge between Oxford and Worcester would be a most suicidal act, more particularly now that projects had just been set on foot for making railways from Hereford to Shrewsbury and from Hereford to Worcester on the narrow gauge line. He should oppose to the utmost the confirmation of this agreement. The lion. Alderman concluded by mov i ng of a committee as an amendment the appointment five it oa ny shareholders to agreement consider whatever, the and that expe diencymr. the B o li meeting f enteri n g lTrof sec n adjournonded h t teo amendment. this day month. Mr. LAWRENCE said the whole point was whether t h e present agreement was as beneficial as that formerly concluded by the London and North-Western Railway. In his opinion they were now blindly surrendering up the most valuable portion of their property, and enabling the Great Western to dam up from this company the immense traffic which was preparing for them i n S out h Wales. The fact was that the two greatest companies in the country were bidding for their favour, and he thought time ought to be given to the shareholders to consider which offered the greatest advantages. He trusted that they would not exclude themselves by a rash and has t y vote to-da y ever from reconsidering the matter. Before sitting down he wished to ask the Chairman whether the Solicitor-Ge neral had not devised the draft of an agreement, which m might r. b p e A f ß o B r OmNesd explained l h a Si no t ; d e London and North-Western Railway, legal and binding ? t r h st a t clause, sueh been drawn up by the Soli citor-General. The very Western Railway solicitor of the London Company,and North western and submitted to t h e Sll the necessity of the c ompany going to Parliament for on an however, agreement entailed ad Act, and it was this consider 'ation which had induced the directors to turn to the Gres it Western Company. Mr. TOWNLEY objected to the present agreements, and contrasted them with form or agreements proposed by the Great Western Railway, by which a 4 per cent. dividend was guaranteed t a the shareholders of this company. He was astonia, tied that the directors had been so short-sighted. He. should certainly support the amendment. Major COURT suggested that the origina l agreement alluded to by the Hon. Gent leman who had just sat down should be reverted to at one .e. Ever since that agree ment had been abandoned the company had been going wrong. Mr. COHEN contrasted the advantages which this company would derive fracci the two companies who were candidates for their id liance. If they agreed with the London and North-Wtu ,tern Company, from the re ceipts of 150,0001. this company would receive 29,3841,, and the London and North -Western 14,3601., or a divi dend of 2 per cent., and all. excess to be divided equally between the two. From io i agreement with the Great Western Railway, from a receipt of 100,0001. this com pany would only . get about 21. Ils. 6d. per cent. Again, the agreement with the Lo t idon and North-Western Rail way would save the ea :penditure of 300,0001. and be able to borrow money o a the credit of that railway at 4 per cent., and also to borrow money on the Great Western Railway. If the • worst came to the worst they could work their own lint —(Hear, bear)—and he was sure that with the increases i advantages of the present day they could do it with n much higher dividend than many other railway compaz ies. Mr. PARSONS defended ti le agreement on the ground that it was more advantageous than the farmer agree ment with the London and :North-Western Railway, and that in fact there was no other path left open for this company. The one disting7 uishing element in the last agreement was certainty, whereas in the other there was an uncertainty both of exp enditure and receipts. This last agreement, also, could be carried out immediately without any further expi rrience. The London and North- Western were not in a position to deal with them. l'he traffic of this company was a London traffic, and in his opinion the Gr.:at Wen tern Railway was the most advantageous line to carry on their traffic to London. Mr. Sergeant GASELEE , commented on the anomaly of the solicitor of the comp 'Loy making harangues in fa vour of a scheme which he would receive the pay of the company to carry out in another place. Unfortu nately, on the last occasion, he had just the same advo cacy in favour of the London and N,,rth-Western Rail way Company. If, however, he had such confidence in his case, what objection col uld there be to wait and al low every body else to Bald sty themselves that the ad vantages were as great as had been represented? He, for one, could not forget ale breach of faith which the Great Western Railway be. i once been guilty of. He would rather subscribe far a Bill against the Great Western, than favour theta in the least. He would, however, not enter into t'sn relative advantages of the two schemes, but entreat them to consent to the amend ment for a delay, to give time for consideration. After a considerable alter cation the original resolution was withdrawn, and the amendment agreed to. Mr. Uzelli, Mr. Lawre ctce, Mr. Walker, Mr. Brett, Mr. Caple, and Mr. H. G•risewood were appointed to form the committee of inqu.iry. The meeting then separated, after a vote of thanks to the Chairman. MARKET INTELLIGENCE. (From the London .Neu, Price Current, July 15.) SUGAR.—To-day larger transactions took place in West India Sugar, in conse pence of there being sellers rather under the rates of Friday, both for grocery and refining qualities. The publi , s. sales of 21$ hhds 36 trcs 151 brls Barbadoes went off flatly at a reduction of 61 per cwt, and several lots ware taken in: the part sold realized for fine yellow 38s 6d to 40s, gc , od 37a 6d to 38s, mid 36s 6d to 375, low 35s 64 to 365, :esid to fine brown 34s 6d to 355, and two lots mid to god grainy yellow 38s to 40s; 30 hhds 15 trees 260 brls Trinidad in part sold at easier rates, mid and good brown. at 33s 6d to 345, ord to mid yellow 34s 6d to 3586 d, and... 37 hhds ord yellow Demerara 34s 6d per cwt. REFINED.—To-day there was little passing in refined goods for home consumption, still brown lumps cannot be obtained under 46s per cwt, there being no increase of supply. The crushed sugar market is quiet, with sellers at rather lower rates:. MAIIRITIDS.—This afternoon Mauritius sugar met with little attention, and of 4,178 bags at auction a part only sold, whilst rather lower rates were in some cases taken—fine yellow selling at 38s to 39; low to goorl 34s to 375 6d, ord to fine brown 31s to 345, refining aorta 33s to 38s, and a few small .lots grainy yellow 40s to 41s per cwt. EAST INDIA.—This after noon Bengal sugar met with attention, and the rates obtained were generally equal to those of Friday. At auction 3,455 bags were chiefly disposed of ; good mid to fine white Benares went at 403 6d to 425, low to mid 3.8 s to 40s, damp and washed 37s 6d to 41s, mid to fine grainy white 44s to 475, good end fine soft yellow 36s to 373 per cwt. There was no public sale of Madras, and little was done privately. FOREIGN.—To day there was little desire evinced by shippers or home dealers to operate in Foreign Sugar, although there were sellers rather under the rates of Friday. At auction 80 hhds 44 trcs St. Croix sold at 41s to 44s for good and fine bright yellow. MoLAssEs.—The demand continues limited for all sorts, and there are sellers rather under the rates exist ing previously. West India of low to fine quality can be obtained at 12s 6d to 16s, Uengal and Mauritius 12s, Cuba and Porto Rico 14a to 143 6d. The rates paid for low to fine Jamaica Honey bre 30s to 55s per cwt. Cocoa.—British plantation has been more in demand, and stiffer rates are obtained for Trinidad, the supply at market being limited. At auction 230 bags were sold at 45s to 47s for good to fine red; low and mid grey 36s to 38s 6d ; but Grenada is still to be obtained at from 32, to 40s per cwt. In Ferjgn operations are trifling, ashia tied Para at 25s to 275; and Guayaquil at 293 to 30s per cwt. COFFEE.—This afternoon Native Ceylon Coffee weds operated in with reluctance, although rather lower rates were acceded to: of 1,100 bags at auction, a part only sold at 37s 6d to 383 for ord and good ord, and at 33 s to 37s for damaged. For Plantation Ceylon the market has neon quiet, and in some cases lower rates were taken ; at auction 170 casks 200 bags were only in part sold, mid at 50s to 525, low mid 48s 6d to 49s 6d, fine to fine fine ord 42s 6d to 48s, inferior 38s 6d to 425, and pea berry 56s 6d to 58s. Of Jamaica 34 casks realised 50s 6d to 52s for low mid and mid, being full rates. Of Porto Rico 170 pkgs 700 bags were nearly all taken in, at firm rates, from 42s 6d to 49s 6d for good to fine ord, but chiefly at 45s to 453 6d; 2,980 bags Costa Rica, mid and good 55s to 595; 38 bales Mocha sold at 383 6d for damaged. . __ TEL—Public sales will take place on Friday; at pre sent the quantity declared is 10,000 pkgs. In low and good eommon Congou large transactions have again taken taken place for home consumption at lOid to I Id, and shippers are still operating. There is only a limited quantity on offer. For medium or rather strong blackish leaf a fair demand exists at 1 lid to is O'd, good to fine sorts are operated in more freely at is Id to Is 7d per lb. Several transactions have taken place in Oolong at is to is Bd, and there is a firm market. To day operations were upon a small scale, in consequence of the public sales declared, but rates are not lower. RICE.—To-day the private operations in East India Rice were trifling, and at easier rates. At auction 687 bags Bengal were taken in, good white at 9s 6d to 10s, and small broken 8s 6d per cwt. SPICES.—To-day at public sale 119 bags 46 pockets Bengal Ginger were taken in at 17s 6d for mid export sort, being above the value. SPlElTB.—Leeward Island Rum has been purchased with reluctance, and is to be obtained at is 4id to is sid proof. For East India there is a quiet market, with sellers at is 3d to is 3id proof, and larger parcels are on offer. Demerara has been purchased with reluc tance, and there are sellers at is 10d to 2s 3d for 30 to 40 over proof. In Jamaica operations are immaterial. The value of fine 34 to 39 per cent over proof is 3s 3d to 4s 3d, good mid to good 38 to 35 over 2. 7d to 3s 2d, and low to mid 30 to 33 over 2s 3d to 2a 6d per gal lon. Brandy met with little attention from ship pers or home dealers, and there is an increasing stock. Cognac best brands of the vintage of 1850 can be obtained at 4s 4d to 4s 6d, 1849 ditto 4s 6d to 4s Bd, 1848 ditto 4s 1 Id to 5s Id, older 5s 5d to 7s, low and mid sorts 2s 6d to 3s 4d, and Bordeaux 2s 2d to 2s 3d. In the value of British-made Spirit no variation. Geneva met a slow sale at Is 7d to is Bd, and fine is 9d to 2s. ham - in.—To-day during the progress of the sale 2,156 chests have been withdrawn. 2,628 chests (includiTig 1,743 chests withdrawn) passed the sale. Proprietors have bought in 585 chts, leaving 300 sold. Of total quantity which has now passed the hammer (10,128 chts), 4,238 have been withdrawn, and 2,562 bought in, leaving 3,328 sold. SALTPETRE.—To-day Saltpetre met with little atten. tion, and prices declined 3d to 6d per cwt. At auction 1,050 bgs Calcutta part sold; very tine 2f refraction went at 294, good mid I 1 to 121 per cent 25a 6d. COCHINEAL.—AIthough there are sellers rather under previous rates, only a limited home or export demand has been experienced. Of 300 bags at auction not above one. half sold; Honduras, silvers low to mid went at 3s to 3s 3d, common to fine bl..cks 3s 6d to 4s 9d, Taneriffe 3s 7d to 3s 9d, low red Lima 2s 6d to 2s 10d; Mexi can was taken in, silvers 3s, black 3s Id to 3s 3d. Ou.s.—There is an increasing demand for Seal Oil; pale selling at 301 10s to 311. Other sorts are rather scarce, and in better request at 281 to 30l per tun. Cod continues to meet with little attention, and is at 361 lOs to 375. There is an improving demand for Southern. and the rates paid have been 29/ to 321 for low to fine. In Sperm desire is evinced to sell good and fine quality at 821 103 to 841 10s per tun; whilst lower rates are looked for. Ileadulatter has been operated in at 901 to 921 per tun. In Linseed Oil a good deal has been done for home comsumption; prices are also firmer, and rule at 32s 3d to 32s 6d. For delivery considerable contracts have been concluded at 31s 9d to 325. In Cocoa Nut prices are on the advance; Cochin selling at 31s to 32s 6d, Ceylon 30s to 325, and Sydney 28s 6d to 29s 6d. In Palm not much done; and fine quality is offered at 27s 6d per cwt. For Rape Seed Oil an advance is apparent; brown realising 32s 6d, pale 33s 6d, and Refined Foreign 34s 6d; for forward delivery contracts bave been entered into at 34s 6d to 358 for refined. In Olive many purchases have been made, and rates are firm; Gallipoli at 381 to 391, other sorts 361 to 371 Ws per tun. TaLLow.—Dealers operate with caution for present delivery, but lower rates are not taken; and fine Russian Candle is held for 37s 6d to 37s 9d per cwt. There is, however, more demand for the last three months of the year, and quotations range firm at 39s to 39s 6d. Home melted is still obtainable at 35s to 36s net cash, on ac count of a large supply. H, --°sIERY.—We have had a little more inquiry for goods in the home market—consequently a few more frames are set to work again, especially drawer and shirt frames. The price of yarn is ab out the gams as it li bees ler the last 111911th.`nA r ottuighain Journal LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUL Y 16, 1851. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 15. COUNTY COURTS FURTHER EXTENSION BILL. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was quite ready to adopt the suggestion of Mr. Cardwell, that there should be a uniformity of practice, and that a party should be allowed to employ an attorney, a barrister, or any other person whom he might select, with the simple condi tion that the latter should be approved by the judge. Mr. CROWDER also thought the best plan would be to adopt such a clause as that suggested by the Hon. Member for Liverpool, and secure an exclusive or a free audience neither to the attorney nor to the barrister. Mr. AGLIONBY was in favour of a uniform practice. Mr. COBDEN thought the beat course for the Com mittee to adopt was to establish free competition in the county court business. Mr. MULLINGS said the effect of the proposed clause would be to give the barristers the privilege of receiving instructions from an attorney, but it would preclude an attorney from receiving instructions in a similar manner from another attorney. Now, he thought the same scope ought to be given to the attorney as was conceded to the barrister. After some observations from Mr. Forster, Mr. Crowder, Sergeant Murphy, and Mr. Williams, the clause was amended as proposed, and agreed to. The House remunied, aud the Chairman reported pro gress. SUPPLY. Mr. BERNAL brought up the report of the Coin mittee of Supply, which was agreed to. The House adjourned at Half•past Three to Half•past Five o'clock. The House resumed at Half- pait Five o'clock. PETI noNs. Mr. ANSTEY presented a petition from roughs], praying for an alteration of the law in regard to the im portion of foreign filur. Mr. DIVET f presented a petition from Exeter, pray ing that the Crystal Palace might be maintained as a winter garden. Mr. ROCHE presented a petition from a place in Cork in favour of Church reform in Ireland. Mr. DISRAELI p --- ;;;ented — s, petition from Liverpool, praying for an alteration of the law respecting the im• portation of foreign HARWICH ELECTION. Mr. BANKES gave notion that he would:to-morrow move that the new writ for Harwich should not be issued until the minutes of evidence taken before the Com mittee had been printed and laid on the table of the House. SELECT COMMITTEES. Mr. EWAR r then rose to move, according to notice, the following resolutions on this subject:-1. That the number of Members composing Select Committees be reduced (except when special cause be shown, to the satisfaction of the House, for enlarging that number) to seven. 2. That the Members appointed to serve on Select Committees be selected by a Committee of Selection. 3. That it be the duty of the Committee of Selection to choose only such members to serve on Select Committees as may declare their ability to give their regular attendance at such Committees; and that the Committee of Selection ascer tain this fact from such Members beforehand. 4. That it be an object of the Committee of Selection, in the formation of Select Committees, to combine a due proportion of the younger Members with the more ex perienced Members of the House. 5. That three Mem hers be held a sufficient quorum of Members for Select Committees." He believed that by reducing the number of Members on Select Committees to five, and by taking away all local interests, Committees enjoyed more of the confidence of the House and the country. About fifteen years ago the Committees consisted of forty Members; but very few of them usually attended. A change had taken place, and that change was for the advantage of the House. The resolution he proposed involved two main principles—the reduction of the number and the enforce. ment of attendance. In all legislative bodies except Parliament the number of members on committees was small. In France it was only nine, and it was found that the practical working number was only seven. The re duced number was found to answer in Committees upon Private Bills. By rendering the attendance of Members constant, service would be done for the public; this, however, could only be effected in the first instance by adopting the smaller number. His (Mr. Ewart's) object was to render the proceedings of the House more simple and more effective. _ Mr. HOBHOUSE seconded the motion. Mr. E. DENISON saw great inconvenience from the selection being confided to a Committee of Selection as contradistinguiehed from the present Committee of Se lection: it would also impede the action of the latter Committee. He considered it would be impracticable to consult each Member as to whether he wished to serve on a Committee. At this time of the session it would hardly be desirable to come to any conclusion upon the motion, seeing that all the Committees were formed; and he, therefore, suggested that the motion should be de ferred to next session, when it might be referred to a Select Committee. Sir H. H. INGLIS said all the arguments used by the Hon. Gentleman in 1839 were now available against his proposition in 1851. The resolution respecting private Committees bad worked well; but there was no parity between public and private Committees, and couse quenly he (Sir R. H. Inglis) could not agree to the motion. Neither the House nor the Government could consent to relinquish the power of nominating Select Committees on important national subjects, besides which the selection of any Committee of Selection would not, give satisfaction to both parties. The practice at present was to appoint no gentleman to a Select Com mittee who bad not signified his intentiiin to attend on such Committee. He suggested that any report of a Committee should be signed by the Members who con curred in it; and he concurred in the recommecdation of his Hon. Friend to refer the whole subject next ses sion to a Select Committee. Mr. HOBHOUSE supported the motion. He com plained of the xclusion ut certain Members from public Committees, and maintained that the representatives of the people is Parliament should be pares inter se—equal among themselves. He could not agree that the House would sot wish to part with the power of nominating :Select Committees, seeing that in practice the House had already parted with it to the Government or to the majority. The simultaneous appoint ment of one Member also to serve on several Com mittees was a decided grievance. He, therefore, thought the plan of his Hon. Friend a great improvement on the existing system. Although seven or eight years a Member of that House, he (lir. Hobhouse) had never been called to serve on a single Select C o mmittee. These Committees virtually governed the country, however; and therefore it was too much power to give to the Government or to the leader of the Opposition the nomination of the Members. Mr. C. LEWIS could not support the motion. He apprehended that if the plan in question was adopted, the inquiries before Committees would Rot be satisfac tory, unless the practice of allowing counsel to be heard was introduced. This he did not consider possible; and therefore, as he believed the proposal would produce far greater evils than existed, ho felt called upon to give it his decided opposition. Mr. HUME said the mode of election was not based upon a right principle. Though many competent Members were unjustly excluded from Committees, the result of his experience showed the greatest difficulty in obtaining the attendance of those who where nominated to these Committees. Taking an average, it would be found that in a Committee of fifteen no more than seven attended. He would therefore reduce the number of Select Committees to that figure, but he would also snake attendance compulsory.—(Hear, hear.) He con sidered that the Committee of Selection had acted un justly in placing Members of that House upon private Committees to prevent them serving on public Com mittees, and he hoped the Government would entertain the subject in such a manner as to produce some satis factory result. Mr. BROTHERTON was not sanguine as to the effect of the change proposed by the Hon. Member, seeing (that public and private Committees were conducted in a very different manner. lie thought that when gentle men manifested the possession of information and ability they were generally selected by the House to serve on public Committees. At the same time, he did not wish to stand for a moment in the way of impene.went. Mr. EWART replied. He would be satisfied if his resolution were referred to a Select Committee. It ap peared to be generally admitted in the course of the de bate that some change in the present system was neces sary. He did not absolutely limit himself to the number of seven, but he maintained that he was quite consistent with himself when he proposed the reduction of the pre sent number of members on Select Committees. He could not, however, consent to put off his motion until next session, as he considered the present was the proper time to entertain the subject. Lord J. RUSSELL could not consent to either of the propositions made by the Hon. Member. He was not, however, opposed to the appointment of a Select Corn mimeos upon this subject, it the House was disposed to entertain such a proposition, early next session. He did n.st believe that any object could be attained by the ap pointment of such a Committee this session. On the suggoation of Mr. HUME, Mr. E Pi' ART consented to withdraw his proposition. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. MILLING INTEREST IN IRELAND. Lord NAAS rose to move that the House should, on a future day, resolve itself into a Committee to take into consideration the present state of the milling interest in Ire land. The Noble Lord began by referring to the manner in which the interests of agriculture in Ireland, as well as its linen and other manufactures, had for merly been cherished and fostered by the L egislature.: The linen trade was now comparatively lost, and he was prepared to prove that the important interest referred to in his motion had also been involved in ruin—results Tooduced in both cases by the legislation of that House. —(Hear, hear.) It was formerly the practice of the Irish millers to purchase large supplies of grain during the period that elapsed between harvest and spring, and to export flour into the English market with great ad vantage to themselves and to the country to which they belonged; but that trade had now completely ceased, as they were beaten out of the field by the enormous im portations of American and French flour that took place. —(Hear, hear.) He found, from the returns of the Board of Trade, that in 1845 the quantity of wheat ex ported to England was 372,000 quarters; in 1850 it was only 76,000 quarters, being a decrease of 79 per cent.—(Hear, hear.) Of wheaten meal and flour there were exported to England in 1849, not, less than 1,422,900 cwt.; and in 1850 only 397,000 c.wts., being a decrease of 72 per cent.—(Hear, hear.) 13ut the loss did not end here, for Ireland had been obliged to im port these articles. Last year she import,d 2.200,000 quarters of wheat, of which about 1,000,0(J0 were from foreign parts, and 570,000 cwt. of wheat tail and flour; and he could not calculate the loss on these single arti cles of wheat and wheat flour at less than 2,600,000/., or almost one-sixth cf the entire valuation of the country. —(Hear, hear.) In such a state of things, it was not to be wondered at that persons connected with agriculture should be dissatisfied with their position,—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the immediate question before the House, he had entered into correspondence with all the millers in Ireland, and had obtained very valuable infor mation for the benefit of the House. He had ascer tained that the value of 349 mills in Ireland was not less than 1,487,3101.; and, with regard to 321, he had before him a detailed statement of the time they were now working. Only 39 millers stated that they were working full time, 7 not full time, 6 three-fourths time, 6 two-third time, 81 half-time, 48 one-third time, 18 one-fourth time, 5 one-sixth time, and so on. Here the Noble Lord read a number of indivi dual statements, to show the actual condition of the mills with which they were connected, the hands em ployed, &c., and gave it as a conclusion at which gen tlemen well-informed upon the matter bad arrived, that the number of souls dependent on the corn mills in Ire land amounted to 123,000. From all parts of Ireland the information was, that great distress existed among those connected with the mills; and he believed there was not on© miller in that country who could say he was in the same condition that he had been in before the recent changes commenced.—(Hear, hear.) Now, as to the cause of all this distress, he presumed no ono would deny that it was occasioned entirely by the enormous importati nof foreign fl iur; and, seeing that the dis tress had been much accelerated within the last year, and that the importations of French flour dated from that period, he would confine himself chiefly to that point. It had been said the other day that Normandy had become to all intents and purposes an English county, and the facts relative to the importation of flour from that part of France seemed to bear out the asser tion. Now, this state of matters was not foreseen by the authors of the measure of 1846. It was always con 'ended hat we had nothing to tear in this country from French flour; hut how had the prophecies on th it point teeen verified ? it appeared that in 1849 the quantity of wheat fl our imported from France was 287,502 quarters, and in 1850 it was 550,000 quarters. In the last quarter of 1850 the importation was 165.000 quarters, and in the firsi quarter of this year it amounted to 226 517 quarters, showing that the importation had doubled during the first quarter of the preset t year as compared with the last quarter of 1850 —(Hear, hear) According to a statement made in the report of a Cammittei of the French Assembly appointed to inquire inio the subj-ct, of grinding and exporting grain, it appeared that in the year ending August 1. 1850, there were exported from France 418,549 quarters et wheat, and that in seven sub sequent months the quantity exported was 554 443 cleaners. whim in the first of those periods there bad been exported 506,000 quarters of flour, and the latter period of seven months 525,000 quarters.—(Hear, hear.) It had been stated in another place that the French miller was restricted to the produce of the French soil. But the French miller had the privilege of grinding foreign wheat in bond for exportation. That such was the case appeared from inquiries made by an English miller who had seen the statement that the French miller was restricted to French produce. The flour ground in bond must be exported within 20 days from the time of importation, but not a single pound of flour was allowed to be imported into France. There was nothing to pre vent France from grinding the grain supplied to this country from the shores of the Mediterranean; and the privilege of grinding in bond, it was understood, would be exercised to an enormous amount. It was a curious circumstance connected with the increase in the im port of foreign corn that the price of bran, pollard, and the coarser sorts of flour, had been materially enhanced, as appeared from returns and calculations in his possession. It was the practice of those who advocated the policy which bad for some years been predominant to underrate the capabilities of the classes affected by that policy; but he thought there was no thing so unfounded as the assertion that the English or Irish miller was inferior, as regarded the application of machinery, to the French miller. The principal art in milling consisted in the entire separation of the flour from the bran; and the great test of superiority in manu facture was lightness of bran and comparative weight of flour. As regarded the quantity of flour he got from a quarter of wheat, the British miller was not inferior to the French or the Belgian; and he had, besides, the com mand of the best machinery, the superiority of this coun try over all others in that department being evident to every one who visited the Great Exhibition. 03e of the moat successful mills in France, indeed, was called " the English mill," in allusion to its having obtained its ma chinery from this country. But the miller of this coun try was beaten by the French miller, because he had labour cheaper, was less taxed, and enjoyed protecting laws, because the Government, instead of opposing his manufacture. and throwing every obstacle in his way, had from time to time taken his case into consideration, and done everything a Government could do to increase aid foster the manufacture of French fl )ur. France had car ried out that policy still more since 1846; and the re commendations of a commission to whom the subject had been referred showed that the system most appr ved in France was one which had a tendency to encourage the retention of the coarser kinds of grain in that country, and the exportation if the finer qualities. There was a remarkable contrast between the large increase in the importation of flour frora Franco into England and the diminution in the export of linen yarn from E gla , •cl to France, that export having fallen to 1-30th of the iltp Jr; in 1842. The question on which he a-k..,1 the opinion ot the House was wnether they were prepared to continue without alteration a system which lasi produced such evil results? He had proved that an interest second to none in the country, the interest of the manufacturer of whea en flour, was in a more distr.ss , d state, perhaps, than even that of the farmer. How long would they continue that system? How many classes would they see destroyed before they admitted that it had not done all they had rxhected? The present spleen was no more one of free trade than it was of anything else; it was a system of protection to the foreigner. Those with whom he acted might be accused of being monopo lists, of wishing to increase the price of food to the ls bourer; but their answer was that they desired the market thrown open to their own proeuce as well as to that of foreigners. They desired that corn grown on the banks of the Mississippi or the Elbe, or on the shores of the Baltic, should compete on fair terms, should pay the same contribution to the state, and be subject s tme what to the same charges as that grown by the British farmer. —(Hear, hear.) On the same principle they asked the interposition of the House on behalf of the miller and the manufacturer. He believed that the country at no very distant period would be prepared to reconsider the subject—(Hear, hear)—and revert to a principle which was so deeply implanted in our nature that it even found expression in the language which described the first law of nature—" self-protection."—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord concluded by proposing the motion. Mr. LABOUCHERE observed, that though it was not his fortune to agree with the Noble feud either in his conclusion or his argument, yet ho willingly bore testimony to the industry the Noble Lord had evinced in making himself acquainted with the facts of the case, as well as to the temperate manner in which the sub ject had been introduced.—(Hear, hear.) The motion of the Noble Lord, however, ought rather to have been one asking the House, not to restore protection to the Irish miller, but to restore the corn-laws; tor, thong's it only asked the House to go into Committee to reconsider the case with respect to the Irish millers, yet it was im possible for the House to reconsider the case of the Irish millers without reconsidering that also of the English. If there was to be protection at all, the farmer had as great a right to it as others—(clt-tar, hear)—but if the House thought their reoent policy erroneous, he (Mr. Labouchere) hoped they would take some other mode of expressing that opinion than by assenting to the motion of the Noble Lord; and, it they did not mean to restore protection as a principle, they did nothing but delude this class of men by the proposal brought before the House. Lie thought he should be able to show, not that individual mil lers did not suffer distress, for circumstances had changed, but that as a class there was not the slightest ground for asserting that they had not had quite as much em• ployment within the last few years as previously. Nei ther did he believe there was any reason to suppose that the British millers were not just as able to compete with the foreign millers as any class of British manufac turers were with foreign. The argument of the Noble Lord with respect to the wages of labour was applicable to oilier branches of industry as well. With respect to the question, whether a special ease had been made out fir giving protection to millers as a class, ho did be lieve that nothing more preposterous could be urged. It was proved to demonstration that the millers of the United Kingdom had, since the repeal of the corn-laws, had as much to do as before. The produce grown in the United Kingdom had not diminished. There was a great import of breadstuffe; but in what form? Mainly in grain. He had a statement of the quantities of wheat and wheaten fl our imported into the United Kingdom within the hest ten years. In 1841, 2,409,000 quarters ef wheat were imported, and what was criivalent to 360,000 quarters of wheat fl our; in 1842, 2 717.000 quarters of wheat, 322,000 quarters of wheat flour. Ho snould not detain the House by reading the numbers for each year. In 1847 it appeared that 2 656,000 quarters of wheat were imported, and 1,808 000 quarters of 11 or; in 1849, 3,845,000 quarters of wheat, and 959,000 quarters ot flour; in 1850, 3 754,000 quarters of wheat, and 1,101,000 quarters of fl ,ur; and for the three months eliding 5 h of April., 1851, 1,105,000 quarters of wheat, and 382 000 quarters of fl cur. All the wheat imported in the shape of grain went to the millers of this count, y. He had a return also which re lated to Ireland alone, but without the equivalent in q of u a w r t h e e r a s t being in gr agivengrain w f e o r r flour.eimported I n 8 4, 4 6) I B r 2. el o a o n o d quarters 437ooo cwt. of wheat fl our; in 1817, 238,000 quarters of wheat, 442,000 cwt. of flour; in 1848, 297,000 quarters of wheat, 122 000 cwt. ot flour; in 1849, 543.000 quarters of wheat, 218,000 cwt. of flour; and in the three months ending the sth of April lest, 415,000 quarters of wheat, and 99.000 cwt. of flour, or about 25,000 quarters. In point of fact, he believed a great alteration in the circumstances of the trade was goieg on, one which was in operation before the change was made in the laws regulating the importation of grain. There were parties at that very moment extending their business in the metropolis. He was informed that near Blackfriars an immense manufacture existed, the parties being able to turn out 7,000 or 8.000 Backe of flour from 70 or 80 pairs of stones. In all respects he be lhieevwedasstuoclhd millers ea w te e s r t im ea p b r l o e ve t m o e c n o t mpete with their fo reign rivals. Competition h a d ac t e d as a stimulus , a nd v'a in milling both here and a b roa d. At s Deptford taki rang inge nious improvement had been introduced, which had been e attended n nwithn fear e m i n n s e t n n t I t y h e a e u n c e c e e e s s s a f f u n l e r n e n u p l e t s t t en He b y c o t u h l e d millers of this country with those of every part of the world, With respect to the expert ot fine wheat from France and the retention of pollard for home consump tion, he should only remark that if it was worth whits to send pollard here it would be sent; and when it was said, " See how ungratefully France - tre its us," he must say that he was not deterred by the policy of Frauce from believing that it was the interest of this country to pursue the policy with which it had identified itself. Un der the recent system, it was not denied that the linen manufacture of Ireland had greatly thriven; and looking back for a period of 16 years, since the commercial system had been liberalised, the exports by this country to France had increased (he sp:.ke from memory) from 400,000/. to 2,000,000/. He regretted the restrictive policy to which France clung with so much tenacity; this country had the greatest interest in the pursuit of industry by that great and ingenious nation; but, if he believed this country bad an interest in paralyziug the commercial system of France, he should anticipate that result from adherence to a system which he knew to be absolutely incompatible with any great extension a her commercial and ma,utecturing interests. France c,uld never enter the great field of competition with America and Great Bri , ain till she freed herself trona those shackles which this country had had the wisdom and the courage to get rid of. He did not know that it was ne cessary for him to detain the House; he should abstain from ntering into details, for he was not disposed to ground his opposiion on minute calculations. Ho rested it rather on the great principle on which he hoped the House would take its stand. The Noble Lord had talked of the partial injury brought by the tree trsde measures on part cular classes. He (ilr. Laboochere) was afraid any change in commerce, even from bad to good, must a,lapays produce hat result. But, surely, they were not without their compensations. He had seen the other day a document not prepared in a Government office or brought forward by men advocating any system of political economy, or any political party, but by per sons engaged in works of bonevolence. He referred to the reports of those who, as district visitors, were en gaged in visiting the haunts of the lower classes in this mighty city, reports given with reference to the condi tion of the industrial classes for the last two years by medical men, clergymen, and others. They all stated that a groat and manifest improvement had taken place in the physical condition, outward appearance, moral habits, and cleanliness of those classes, and in every par ticular, owing to their greater comf-rt; and in many in stances the result was traced directly to the increased means et obtaining provi-ions ch , ap. These were objects on which it was worth while for that House to legislate; and if they were satisfied that, by their recent legisla tion, these objects had been promoted, that not only the physical state, but the moral condition and the political contentment of the great body of the ounmunity had been promoted, he hoped that they would pause be ore, inconsequence of any partial case being stated in favour o f any porii-n of their country then, they abandoned the policy they bad ad .pied, an'l that they wool I prefer that which ought to be the great ohj-et in all their deliber,- :ions, the general benefit of the great body of the people. On these grounds he entreatr d the ilou-e o refuse its assent to toe motion, against which he should give his decided vote.—(Hear, h ar.) Mr. STUART stated, that to raise the whole ques. tion with reference to the case of one class was whit'', the Noble Lord desired to do. His own constituents had complained, in a petition, of the injury inflicted on them by the repeal of the corn-laws. It would not answer for the Government to slight the compluints of a suffer ing class. The millers, it might be said, were the last persons who ought to complain; they were merely the manufacturers; and it was the fact that they were complaining, and not without reason. Their request was a modest one, namely, for inquiry whether they could not be relieved from the consequences of le gislation, which had affected them in common with ()them France adhered to a system of protection, so did the most eminent statesmen of America. A writer in the United States had prognosticat , d that not only the Mayor of Stockport, who was a miller, but the :`,lfayor of Manchester, who was a cotton miller, would come to Parliament with the same c ,mpleint.—(Hear. bear.) He recommended the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, and the Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade, to study the Transatlantic writers, one of whose works aptly expressed the ohj, , ct aimed at by his Noble Friend, namely, "The Harmony of Interests, Agricultural, Manufacturing, and Commercial." Ministers appeared to have had for a text-book Franklin's "Rules for making a Great Empire a Little One," and the rule " If people make complaints, don't listen to them, and tell them they must suffer," had been faithfully worked Out in Ireland. From references made by Sir R. Per 1 to Adam Smith's description of the agricultural body, it was to be inferred he intended to wake them some compensation. He considered that they bad by their legislation sacrificed, for the benefit of the manufactur • ing class, the interests of the whole agricultural popula- non—of all cones rued in the produce of land dir, et iy and indirectly. whether as landlords, tenants, millers. mortgag►es, or tradesmen. He warned the Manchester cotton millers and steam loom weavers that their con dition might before long .be similar to that of the corn millers. The Mayor of Siockport, who was a miller and manufacturer, supported tree-trade measures, aid thought he would beat the world, but his anticipations had been disappointed, he found that the French miller beat him. and he had gone to the wall. The Aweric,in manutacturers might berure long put the Aanchester mill ra of cotton in the ...time position in which the French c,rn millers had put the English corn millers. He held in his hand a letter trom Mr. Thorpe, of Newark, an extensive miller and malster, relative to (h.- comparative nal-rits of English and French machi- nery. (rne Hon. G-ntleman read the letter, the writer of whieti salted that as Lord Grey had told the House that English millers rod not know their business, assn held up she French miller., as superior to them, he (Ylr. Thorpe) could only say that it he had follow:A th- French system he would have figured in the Gazette long ago; and that French grinding, instead of beina held up as a pattern to English millers, would he a dis• grace to them.) He (Ar. htuart) thought, thun, th.t it did not become the Governmeet to t=aunt this su ff er i ng and complaining class with want of skill. and to call upon them to expend furth-r capital. He hoped the House would agree ro the motion of the Noble L. , rd fur he considered that by i.e-ativing it they would incur very serious responsibility. Mr C. ANSTEY stud that he supported the motion, because he befit ved it would tend to the advantage of Ireland, particularly as it did net in the least interere with free trade,•as was thought and represented by some Memners. However, he should say that he felt it his duty that it would be proved that there was a necessiLy for such a measure for the ugriculgutists of Irela=nd, now burthened with taxes beyond their means. He hoped that the House would admit of a Committee, and if such were allowed, he was prepared to show that the millers in Ireland were suffering much, and that if Parliament did not interfere the people must necessarily suffer. Mr. E. B. ROCHE said that he wished to adhere to the question of the Irish millers, without touching in the least on free trade.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He was a manufacturer of wheat himself, but he denied that wheat was a raw material, and he asked the House to say if he was not to have protection for what he pro duced? Why should the miller have protection for what he produced? The result of special protection to the miller would be that if they got corn into this country free of duty, with a prohibition in respect of flour, the miller would say, " I will only give you such a price for your wheat as I please, having at my command a large supply of that article against a competion, in which I am guarded." The fact was that the millers of Ireland had not applied themselves to the improvement of their machinery so much as the French millers had done, although since the adoption of free trade measures con siderable improvements had been made by the millers in respect of the machinery; and while he would be willing to support any motion which would benefit Ireland, h e considered that their best security now was to fully carry out the principles of free trade; and believing that motion was an infringement upon those principles, be would vote against it. Mr. NEWDEG ATE supported the motion. This was the simplest case that it was possible to conceive. The millers of Ireland were injured as well as the millers of England, and they, therefore, demanded inquiry into their case. Between 1845 and 1849 there was an in crease in the imponation of wheat fl cur into the Unit , d Kingdom of 242 per cent., and that certainly was suffi ctent to show tnat the millers had suffered to a grew extent. Then the imp .station of wheat into this country from Ireland hid fallen off to a very con siderable extent wise 1845, the dimunition being in wheat. fl,tur, and °atm , al, upwards of one million cwt. The plain foot of the case was, tout the importation of wheat into the United King tons within the last taw years had increased one-half, while the importation of wheat and wheat fl air into England from Ireland had decreased more than one-half, which was a very signifi cant sign of how the present system was tending France, from being an importing ceuutry, as regarded corn, was now an exporting one, and a French states man stated, that since 1844 five millions of acres were brought into cultivation in France fc r the express par pose of supplying the English market. The something occurred in the northern parts of Liarrnany. and at borne they had the millers complaining. Yet the millers were determined to du nothing to relieve :he distress, hut al towed it to cure itself. He read a letter from a miller in Wakefield, in which it was contended that it was Un paseible for the English millers to compete with the French, in consequence of the heavy rates and taxes to which they were subj e cted. In his (A!'• Newdegate's) opinion, the Noble Lord who brought, forward the m u . don only did his duty to his country in calling the at tention of the Elamite to too distress existing among the millers in Ireland. Mr. WILSON contended that if any argument was to be drawn from the importation of flour and wheat dur ing the last five years, it must be in favour of the miller. From the observatiAls - made by the Noble Lord, it might be inferred that .becaube France en joy, d protection, t h e people . ), enjayeel great prosperity. NOW, ho conttuded that if ilia Eegish farmer rut fered, the Fren ch farmer suff red sill more, as may be seen from the re port of the Mu:elate r of Commerce, lately published. The N . eble Lord also sa id that t h e F renc h miller was enabled to grind fl tur in bond, and then to export it to foreign countries, and undersell the English miller in his own market. Nothing could be wore fallacious than such au argument. France was divided into sections, and although the miller there was permitted to grind wheat in bond, and then ex port it, he was obliged to import an equal quantity from the section in which he resided. The Noble Lord said the English and Irish miller had better machinery than the French millers ; but how did it happen that the French miller was enabled to grind his flour and send it to Odessa, and then undersell him, and even do so in the English market? English men by their ingenuity were often stile to overcome the difficulties of climate, and to compe se with foreigners in all parts of the world. lie alluded to the Government mill at Deptford, which was, he belaieved, the most per fect in the kingdom, and in which a new improvement was lately made, by which a gr eat saving of time, lab -.or, ;Ai d , ff. who had a mill in Reading, where he ground flour on the old ay3tem, whereas, in London, where he had another mill, he worked on a Lew and improved principle, Si c°. ler to that in use in France, and was able to obtain rcr° or three shillings a quarter mere for the fleur Lend°llf than in Readiue.—(Hear.) These facts arc wo rthy e being known. The Nuble Lord rerers to a ;tile in Fret c 5 with regard to grinding hard wheat in bond. and tll t only sort wheat was allowed; but in that the Nible Lord was mistaken, for the hard wheat was th e best la grinding. The charge for tneterage, which the S o le Lord stated to be a disadvantage to the English eall; tacturer, a peculiar to the city of Louden, sod did not apply to other outports. It was impossible db: sey that the E:iglish miller was placed under any di° .vantage as ca- c pared with the French miller. •Ir via ; also to be ob s erv e d Oaf. the improvement in the eci : siruction of mill s was b e i n g adopted in this countrhi; Besides, the duty on coal imposed in France, go e English miller an advant a ge. There was no d , übt that there wris to Ireland a diminution in the cultivation 50 wheat, and that the Irish millers, depending on their 0 % produce, wire placed a a disedvantege as compared lot those in Londe!, and Liverpuol, in being oblieed to port corn from ehre.d. Colonel DUNNE had no greats sympathy with il ler :: for thy bad been vtolent -tader., still t here t i ts . cuti,e of joy at their repentance. The argument je ,, o f 'our of free trade was the increase of the coinfo,r„b 'he people, but that was not the case in Ireland. " regard to he millers, they imported ISt. , nes from Frefile. upon which they paid a duty of 10 per cent. ge rbs tended the'. the millers should be protector'. B P ,", i be was sure, if the Committee was granted, it w oolo shown tlett free trade wet. the ruin of Ireland. , he o. Lord NAAS replui. He i,beerved that all the ""'",.,"0, retinal and h‘ pothetical statem. nts made by the ''ot Member for Westbury would not countervai l the tent Member that the millers ot this country and ot Ireland we re state ot great di-tress.—(Hear hear.) Witt , ITSP'CiIt to :ho llackfriars- bridge mill, to which reference 15-0 often been made, he had been over it, and couveril' e the gentleman who constructed it, and his answer 1146- that that mtll was c , mmenced before the law 01 „',llO " was passed; that it was commenced at a time vib aii millers thought their trade was likely to ieloren':',"ol be a p , otitaele one, and when matters were in d,od'em position from what they were now.—(Hear, hear.) f o r o the new inverition te which the Hun. Memb er tlietrd Westbury had referred, he begged to say that tentee hadfeiled to convince the best millers in B*,:vWot that it would be of any value to them, and that they not likely toleer, hear.) Mr. NIACGREGOR rose amid loud cries of vide," and " On, uh." The Hon. Gentleman In ade bli veral ineffectual attempts to address the Houtn" , was received with calls of No, no;" Ott , e ', l % and " Divide;" amid which the Hon. GentlennOr it; ciainied that he would move the adjournment (/* - House. Mr. HUME hoped his Hon. Friend would not P ress his motion. A division then took place upon Lord Naas's te o ' when the numbers were— For the motion... „, ,„ 93 Against it ... „, 123 Majority against the motion ... Mr. BANKES gave notice of the terms of a resolll4, for to-morrow, relative to the St. Alban's elccooneToo, nesses who have withdrawn from the United fin 4 fi bs Mr. G. A. HAMILTON moved for a " return °d bf number of cases of cattle and sheep stealing reportieg the constabulary in the counties of Westmeath 50'1 DP common respectively during each of the three b et years, ending the Ist day of June, 1651; of the 011-mocll of persons committed for trill or bailed fon ds " o: offences; of the number of such persons convionoel their sentences, and a statemtnt of the nam , 5 0 " "dot) in which such sentences have been commuted, or P sr e et granted, up to the present time; whether in en°,. e ., the commutation or pardon was recommended 1 •7, cr judge, and the nature and date of such commutall°" pardon." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER SO w t ftV SOMERVILLE opposed the motion, on tne ground inconvenie , ,ce and injustice that m:ght arise. RV Mr. O'FLAHERT I thought some such reta rd 1 P called for, as an impression prevailed in Ireland b 0 sheep stealing offenders had been allowed to come after being transported. Lord J. RUSSELL could not agree to the tn° t 'i it now stood, b cause, unless there was some case u'iello on grave delinquency O the part of the Irish authe'," fo' it would net be proper for that House to take th e P,, 0 6r gative of the Crown into its hands. He would r e . 710 mend the Hon. Ge-ntleman, therefore, to witlicir%lel l motion, and bring it forward, on a lutare day, in - objectionable shape. Mr. DISRAELI should be sorry to support ani no s tiun that would aff .ct the prerogative of the he could see nothing in the metion that would he c . „: o ii° tendency. If, however, the last sentence ot th e r t were omitted, viz , that rela . ing to the commutation cobs recommended by the judge, &c., he thought ther e o fff be no possiole objection to it on the part of the o°. meat, 10 °I Lord J. RUSSELL to willing to agree S, , was quit m. tiun w:to that alreration. Mr. HAMIL TON cJebented, and the motio°' .mended, was agreed to. citl °I Toe orders of the day were then d6posed of, 111 House adjourned at a Q ar'er to One o'clock. HOUSE. OF LORDS, Ju!y 15. e sil( The D.RD CHANCELL)It took Seat, uputa ~ ack at Ft ve ek. 13 1 k; GUNPOWDER S lOW AG E (LIVERPOO L) Earl GRANVILLE muved that this Bill be re to a 'el. ct Commit,tp. Lord REDESDALE presented a petition • r o o tiO , f, proprietors of property on the banks of the praying to be heard by counsel against the Bill. - ,-, Ihe motion was agreed to. PETI F lONS. 'en' tsl The Rai of ST. GERMANS, in presentivg 1,0 petition , against the Eccl , alastical Titles A n ' ij - 11 Bill, took t ccasitou to recommend to the attention 00,' Government a pamphlet, written by Mr. Elol',e lr ol, r , .i.tnnell, on this subjt et, The Noble Earl also Pr s , v,- ral petitions prayitag for the preservation ° I li Cry stal Palace. iron' ,t,' Lord WODELIOUSE prevented petitions , i p Cape of Good Hope in favour of a cousti:uti°l3 versimeut. . l' BRIBERY BILL, ST. ALBANS leird BEAU MON r postponed the motion Committee on this Bill. THE CAPE OF GOOD HOPE. t4 ' The Earl of DERBY rose to move, according do t rice, that the papers laid before this Hutoe Pit the present and the hot session of el eo l i went relating to thu settlement of a cc h " - a for the Cape of Good Hope should be referf e r ei; Select Committee. He had heard with grePoiej that it was the intention of her Majesty's 0 0 !_ e f o to oppose this motion. He could assure tp e of x ', he brought forward this motion in D e rlo ro either of personal or of party hostility to the vepti,j went. He had no wish to add to the embarees9 o ,l the Noble Earl opposite at the eea' er the Colonial office ; • his object was rat tii i !,; relieve those embarrassments, and to endeavou r pie the force of those elements of, he was afraid ' O l0 1 4 call it, disaffection at present existing in th at Ct° . , The colony was what was commonly called a colony. It had been acquired by conquest, and i t t 'ori miens were wholly granted by the Crown , to d Crown, having once granted th ose in s titutions, the power of withdrawi ng th em ,— (Hes'' , a °: Many of their Lerchhip s , perhaps, we A r- ilie; aware of the exact history of the colony, acr et 4i fare he should hav e to go a t some len g th t a d history of the different proposals which had be e :01 ° i for conferring a r e p resentat i ve Goverriment on o ', ‘ (rho Noble E ar l t h en elionly 'related the h' 6 1 ;0 1 , the colony in 1842.) In the year 1842. 11 ,„je,ii held the offi ce o f C o l on i a l S ecre t ar y, a petition L'' presented to hi m fr o m the colony on the c010:ji, I . )t conferring r e p resen t at ive institutions on tha„.lo) He had, in r e ply to that petition, written a u h *or t l in which h e pointed out the difficulties whie"( 11/ i i in the way of complying with the requests " 0 ,0 pentien, and stating his desire to have .4 trom the petitioners on the subject. This was 1 " 1 0,,,f , 1842, and no answer had been returned to it Of P c l autumn of 1846. At that time the Neb' il e i r c: he sent out a - 60 p , opposite assumed office, and to Sir Henry Pottinger, directing his a t t eotioe di s p a tch of 1842, to which no answer bad h o t tl turned, and stating that it was the desire 10:p 24 ,j eit y'ti Government to confer representaci /e ipo r t! r e rieus on the 3 In 1848 Sir Henry r°l ,ite lj ti successor, bir Harry braid), answered the f or warding to the N o bl e E ar l a di sptec h, w hich °f ell, the views of th ,, .e in aut h ori t y on the subject O t ring representative government on the erlovroi0;1 LOW o.dei n• alma ut an Noble Earl to hi d p 4 prrnetniOn of be seews which he (the Eerl °l nt elo i l had nil:, non that subject. In the commentietUe"A-sto y eir 1848 Str 11. Smith, who had then succeed e :d ti t government o f t h e Cape of Geed Heim, aow`eirl l o dispatch of E rl Grey in 1846 by forwarding so P i e/ c i views of h et offsial advisers on the course sitege,',ool that Noble E , ,rl. Sir H. Smith had laid that v,10,0 before M r . P orter , th e Att o r ne y-G ene r e l of the C o ter: i i, with a view of eliciting his opision how repte6eaity ins , it whine could be best introduced into it. His Q i rve o , 4 , with the questions of Earl Grey, was also sab, °3 6 o o o Mr. Montague. the seLretery to the Colonial ,01/11 nor, to the colonial treasurer, to the collector o f c " to to the chief justice, and to the two puisne jude; to 1 ; . question whether representative institutions cog isle introduced into the colony was scarcely sub (P e y'pe those intelligent public officers—the question tir to be limited to the mode of introducing th ey ((' Montague la s e 'ir "It appears to me, therefore, that I shall ye or f his Excellency by abstaining from all theoret i° , o o e r street docussion on general principles of the ,r e 6 evil likely to result fr o m the establishment of r:,' i lef!: to its form of gov e r n ment in this or any othet;iiiil:fi dency, and by en d eavour i ng , to the best of myrel e 'es: furnish him with such information on the poib tl ; t eed to, as will enable him to form some estimate T ne o , P,i tent and character of the difficulties which had to Lord Stanl e y, wed to which Earl Grey so P ° r t refers." et Another said, " That the period had arrived wa ," i i presentative government could be safely extebue. ref b Cape of Good Hope." Another said," That 9111? sentative government was a held experiment, P t 00 he ii not be well avoided." What he wished to ps i b i t yid the consideration of their Lordships eves this ref, r ,p,) gentlemen did not give their opinion as to the e P e eor i of introducing representative institutions into tP vrot il' i oll but as to the plan of introducing them which o f )If' the safest and the most practicable. TW O L i t. gentlemen had serious misgivings on that potioil Porter, who was a great advocate for free 039 ,b1) 0 0 closed his opinions with these words:— " I ie...ee Ls, ra. recl . ,:ftative 36 ;0 '1 V the Cape ' an experiment;' his ExcellencyQOG the colony and the people well, will not, thlw" th e t E ri)ne tempi Mr. 11 Nobl, from petit had