The Sun. — London, England, 1850-02-06 00:00:00

Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) stand on end—(A' laugh)—or he was not the man he used to be. The Commission took no cognizance of the immense sumslB36 t of which they were the authorised tru s t ees. From o 1845 they kept no accounts, they had no audit, and these fends for public purposes were paid in to the private eceotiat of his secretary, and p aid out by his cheque.— (Hear.) He bad that rom the evidence of the secre tary himself. There was no supervision or control by any party whatever. If any balance remained, it was paid into the ac count of the Commission. But there never was any balance to speak of. The dexterity , of the secretary and the extravagance of the Commis sion took good care of that. The secretary did what he pleased, and the funds which passed into his hands did not amount to much less than a million sterling. That was Vie system till 1845, and no thanks to the Com mission that it did not continue so. An accident led to a change. The Honourable Member for Paisley, he be lieved, brought under the notice of the authorities, that the name of the secretary figured in a railway list of shareholders as the holder of shares to the amount of 580,000/.—(Hear, hear.) The Commission then opened their eyes to the extraordinary and unlimited power of the secretary over the funds, and some alteration took place in consequence. They should pause for a moment and consider the injury which this mode of management inflicted upon the Church. The funds of the Commis sion were intended to be a grew, national provision f,r the highest purposes, to diminish the ignorence and pro mote the spiritual improvement of an uncultivated and rapidly-increasing population. The Commission was the result of a vast social and spiritual revo lution, and it was to be the source, the strength, and the stay, of a mighty movement for the spiritual regene ration of the masses. It was to be the life of every en s ,:prise and the soul of every organisation for the fur teerance of the one grand object, namely, that the poor might have the gospel preached to them. With a know ledge of all this, of the importance of the enterprise, and the responsibility of the work, Parliament entrusted those funds to the management of the Commission. And •ebat did that Commission do? Why, immediately handed over the funds to their own subordinate without instituting a single check against fraud or injury.— (Hear, hear.) The House would not be surprised when he Besse(' that from such a mode of doing business the usual consequences followed—their affairs were ill ad reinistered and their confidence much misplaced. The two facts that brought these matters prominently fur enrd were these:—first, it was notified to the public that the Commission was bankrupt, and .te the Prime Mi nnter that the secretary had run away, taking with him as much money as he could lay his hands upon. With the circumstances connected with these fa eta the public had as yet a most imperfect Izoowledge. No vacancy had been declared, but, through the usual channels of information, they neredefermed of the deficiency of the funds. Perhaps Atte Prime Minister, or one of the Commission, would isenrm the House whether it was true that the late se erotary had left the country? Whether there was any defalcation in tho funds, the amount of that defalcation, and whether any steps had been taken to recover it? And, lastly, whether the Ecclesiastical Commission had beereasked to make up the loss to the Church out of their oweepockets?—(Hear, and a laugh.) He had taken the facts stated from evidence taken before the Committee. 11,,eleaddisapproved of the character of the composition ot e abat,Committee of the House of Commons. He had been informed, but he spoke under correction, at he had no-knowledge himself OA the subjectethat the ? Comenittee wes s eppointed on two uonditiens--that there should be no: e .dieeteesion. >in the House, and that the onembetet should be approved by the Archbishop of Canterbury. That Committee was nominated by arrangement, and every Ecclesiastical Commissioner in the House was placed upon it. Of the members of the Com mittee, five Ecclesiastical Commissioners were named to conduct a judicial inquiry into their own pro ceedings. The bias of the other members, if they hai any, was well known to be entirely in favour of the Commission. That Committee conducted an in quiry throughout two sessions of Parliament. They then agreed upon a report condemning the Commission, and proposing the appointment of paid Commissioners. Whether the Commissioners should be paid was the subject of a very long discussion, and he believed that the Committee, with two exceptions, was unanimous in recommending the appointment of three paid Commis sioners to take charge of the temporalities of the Com mission. The two Cabinet Ministers, members of the Committee, assented to this proposition. They thought that paid and responsible Commissioners, in whose hands and under whose direction the practical working of the objects of the Commission should be, was prefer able to the body as then constituted. The Bishop of London wished to have one paid Commissioner from the Government, but that arrangement would have given more power to the Bishops, while the whole responsibility of the administration would have been thrown upon the Government. That would have been contrary to the opinion of the Com mittee, whose feeling was that three paid Commissioners would practically supersede the Episcopal Board, and instead of having only one day in the week for the business of the Commission, as heretofore, additional fa cilities for transacting business would be afforded, and proper information given to parties who sought it, at the offices of the Commission, in the same manner as it was obtainable in other public departments under the control of Government. But it was obvious that an attempt would be made to defect the intention of the Committee. The effect of that effort was visible in the Bill introduced into Parliament. The Commissioners to be appointed were reduced to two, and one of them vas to be nominated by the Archbishop of Canterbury. That was a very different thing from the concession which he (Mr. llorsman) was induced to make, namely, that one out of the three Commissioners to be appointed should be nominated by the Archbishop of Canterbury. They were also to have an Estates Committee, the pro pcsed composition of which would throw more power into the hands of the episcopal bench. Now, could any MU be introduced into that House better calculated to deteat the object of the Committer? He asked the House thus early to support the Committ ee. The Com mission had exercised no control, and had trifled with eft the responsibilities of guardianship. They had given immense dissatisfaction, were bankrupt, and could not f&fil their obligations. Their secretary was a bankrupt, and had run away with their money, and, above all, in a Parliamentary Committee, composed of their own friends, there had not been found one single 'Wernher to hold up his hand in their favour, and they had unanimously re commended a change in the Commission as essential to the interests of the Church. The duty of every man in that House could not be mistaken. They were called upon for a prompt declaration of their opinion, that could not be mistaken, to put an end to a state of things so discreditable to the Church and injurious to true re ligion.—(Cheers). Sir G. GREY said the Hon. Member had stated with greater accuracy than he had exhibito3 on former occa sions the composition of the Ecclesiastical Commission. That Commission had been charged with the administra tion of funds not provided by Act of Parliament, but in trusted to them by Act of Parliament. With regard to the composition of the Commission he had already stated that the Commission was too large for the convenient trans action of the business intrusted to them. The Commit tee pointed out the defects of the Commission and its system, and made some recommendations and amend manta which had his concurrence, but the Hon. Gentle men had not truly characterised the circumstances. The composition of the body of Commissioners was too large, he admitted, and this naturally led to the irregular per formance of the business, and to the placing in the hands of the secretary a greater share of responsibility than ought to have been the case considering the importance of tho business; He was prepared to concur In any reasonable propesitien for an alteration of the composition of the Commission, and a Bill was i ntroduced three years ago for that purpose, the object of which was to concentrate :the management in the hands of one paid commissioner. This Bill met with considerable opposition in that House; a Committee was appointed, and nothing bad been since done with it. As far as the appointment cf the Committee was concerned, he could give a distinct denial of two conditions having been acceded to—that there should be, no discussion, and that the Archbishop cf Canterbury should approve of the names. —(Hear, hear.) It was the first time he had heard of such conditions.—(Hear, hoar.) He utterly disbelieved there was any foundation for the statement, except in the fertile imagination of the Hon. Gentleman. --(Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman then entered nit an explanation of the circumstances of 'the appoint roe r tof the Committee, and the'accident - cf its being agreed t i withotit discussion. The unworthy suggestion of the Hon. Gentleman ought not to have been reserved until now. The Hon. Member was present in the 'louse when the Committee was agreed ; to; and if he lied suspicions on the subject, why did he not suggest them at the tinad?--(Hear.) He was not prepared to follow the Hon. Member into all the charges ho had melee If it were necessary for the individual vindica- Iton of the Commissioners that the charges should be re plied to, he bad no doubt t h at would be done by Hon, Gentlemen in that Islousewho wer e more conversant with t he facts than he was. In th e su b stratum on which the Hon. Geotleman's charge seated, he agree 1, He tepeatel, the composition of the Commission was bad, end led to too great a share of Confidence being placed in the secretary, which confidence, he regretted to say, had been, abused. The secretary had left the country, sect his defalcations amounted to somewhere between seem,,!, and 7,oool,—(Hear.) Measui es had been imme oiKtely taken to recover as much le,s possible of the P'aiount through the Secretary of the Treasury, who was endeavouring to ascertain what could be re soiered back out of the secretary's private pro- P?rtn. He could not state the amount of defalcation. Tome had put it as high as 70,0001., but be might say it was und er 7,000/, though it would probably be found to exceed 6,0001. The Honourable Gentle manhad asserted that secresy had been used in this transudes. ll , He (Sir G Grey) had made no conceal ment of the matter; many' had spok en t o hi m o n the subject, and h e had never sought mystery. He was not aware cf the steps taken by the Ecclesiastical Cot.innissioners, but a Committee had besn appointed, end no doubt what was proper would be door. The Mob. Membt r had said the vacancy had d nOt been filled up. - The reason was that Government i f el not intend to fill up the vacancy cf t h e joint office W o er r e dto by the secretary and tee surer. The clause in th e A ct He Member he must n: would be repeal e d, and say ho regfetted the clause had ever be en so unadvisedly pass e d, as if bad been productive of much mischi e f and ill enckes Until this matter was decided n o new c"":ni merest would tako place, and the Commissioners were unteiffieg to fill upon the vacancy, as they did not desikeei s e take any step that would fetter the free disdhatiort of Parliament. He was, however, bound to 4 ! it 3 r 4 , while he concurred :in much that had f a ll en frowtthe•Honourable Member as to the composition of *to : - eornmission he must be understood to d o so 'lifill 'oPt- tioilftt % lit in the sarcasm he had threisktL 4 outenot . cod taste. The Hon. Memb er ab le ungalu n s as *. y _ • ita.i. to the prelates, in his speech, ir ail " 4 " l °-4 the good work nothing but :A. :' ,A.•:-:.: .- —.,' " I "r\ -/,'i) -z ' - - 1 ._.i.,.;' - ' -`;--...,/ 't• .- 4,,,, , 4 9..1 additional exhortations. If the Hon. Member would take the trouble to acquaint himself with facts, he would find that the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Bishop of London did contribute liberally towards the ecclesias tical fund.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the appro priation of the funds. Parliament had described the way in which they were to be appropriated; and though the funds may not in every instance have been distributed with the soundest judgment, still an immense amount of good had been done. The former had been made available to a greater extent than had been expected, and by their aid religious instruction had been given to many be nighted districts.—(Bear.) This would be seen when Parliament obtained a return of the benefices aug mented, and the number of clergymen appointed to new churches. That much room for improvement still ex isted he was not disposed to deny. It was desirable that funds for such purposes should be administered with scrupulous care, and he fully believed that throughout the Commissioners ha .l been actuated hut by one desire, that of effecting as much m ood as possible with them.— (Hear, hear.) With rc gardto the proceedings in committee, he must correct some mistakes made by the Hon. Member, whose tone evidently meant to impugn the fairness of the composi tion of that committee. The Hon. Gentleman alluded to five Ecelssiaetical Commissioners and two Cabinet Ministers being on the committee, besides the chairman, who drew up the report, being a brother of the Prelate. No one could assert that any attempt had been made to prejudice a fair inquiry, or that the unanimous report was entitled to less value on account of the presence of those members.—(Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman bad as serted that the committee recommended there should be a separate board of three Commissioners, to whom was to be referred all estate funds. Such, however, was not his impression; The committee, after full consideration of the evidence, concurred in recommending a change in the composition of the Commission—that there should bo a separation of powers in the general affairs and in the management of the property. The great feature in the interests of the Church was to be confined to the larger body, the management of the funds to the smaller body. Three paid Commissioners were named, two to be nominated by the Crown, and one by the Archbishop of Canterbury; but these Commissioners were not to supersede the other Commissioners. They were to give increased weight to the exertions and views of the gene ral body of the Commissioners by the nature of their appointment, which would demand that their whole time and attention should be given to the affairs of the Com mission. The Hon. Gentleman had said that he (Sir G. Grey) concurred in that resolution. He did cer tainly. He gave full credit for the suggestion ; and if he had been present himself on the 4ccae sion he would have supported the motion for the appointment of three paid Commissioners. The Bill of last year was founded substantially on the report of that Committee. The Hon. Gentleman was inaccurate as to the Church Estates Commission. It authorised three Church State Commissioners; one t o be named by the Crown, and one by the Archbishop of Canterbury, and he thought there were objections to placing persons in official situations on such committees as members or commissioners. He thought that such a Committee should be a small body, composed only of those who could give their undivided attention to it. On further consideration during the last session the Bill became the subject of modification, aed his Noble Friend proposed last session to commit the Bill pro forma, with a view to introduce various altera tions' before - the rneieure should come eo the House for consideration ,;, and one of theS,o alterations 'went to correct what wai required, because it reduced the committee to the official: numbers, Now, the Hen. Gentleman asked the House to anticipate the discussion, which had much better be taken in the Committees on the Bill, the second reading of which was fixed for next Monday in the House of Lords. He did not exactly know what might be the position of business in the House of Lords, but there was every reason to suppose that the Bill would come down to the Commons in a reasonable time. If the Hon. Gentleman thought that there should be three paid Commissioners receiving salaries, he might ask the House to reject the Bill if it did not provide accordingly. But he hoped the House would not on the present occasion do that which would be almost an unprecedented act, namely, before a Bill now in the other House had come down to them, to pledge themselves that the Bill should not pass that House without it retained the clause for retaining three paid Commissioners. He thought it was inexpedient to anticipate a discussion which would most prorerly arise in the Committee. He would not say any thing in favour of two or three paid Commissioners, but whenever the time came the Honourable Gen tleman should have ample opportunity to go into detail. He asked the House not to discuss now whether there ought to bo two or three paid Commis sioners, and.here he must be permitted a word or two on soother matter. He was almost ashamed to allude to a latter which had been written some little time since to the Hon. Gentleman's constituents at Cockermouth—he could scarcely condescend to notice it. But the Hon. Gentleman had not thought it expedient to repeat in that House the personal charge be had made of gross dishonesty, and of a wilful fraud having been practised upon him in reference to the Bill of last year by him (Sir G. Grey). The Hon. Gentleman had not maintained the charge in his presence, and therefore be would net condescend to notice the matter further; but if he had abstained from doing so it was because, so long as the words formed part of a column in a newspaper, or were identified with a newspaper controversy, he did not think them worth commenting on, because every Hon. Gentle man must know that the Hon. Gentleman must have been drawing largely on his imagination in his descrip tion of a scene which never could have taken p!ace in moving the Bill pro forma. He abstained from baying more, because the Hon. Gentleman had not thought ',roper to reiterate what he had asserted. Mr. HUME thought the country had a right te com p'a'n of the Government for allowing such abuses to continue so long. It was the duty of the Executive to have interfered, and his Hon. Frond was entitled to credit for persevering in bringing this subject under no tice.—(llear, hear.) He hoped the time was coming when Parliament would exclude the Bishops from having any share in the administration of the ecclesiastical pro perty.—(A laugh.) He (Mr. Hume) felt it his duty twenty-five years ago to overhaul the Church—(A laugh)—and no man in the country was more vilified in consequence. He was proclaimed from altars and from pulpits as an Atheist—and this was dome by the clergy to cloak the abuses of the Church.—(Hear, hear.) But it had no effect upon him.—(A laugh, aed " Hear, hear.") The House had abolished sinecures in the army and navy, and why should they continue to allow sine cures in the . Church?—(Hear, hear.) Mr. AGLIONBY agreed with the Hon. Member for Montrose that the House and the country were indebted to his Hon. Colleague for having brought forward this subject. He was sorry to see that a soreness existed on the part of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir G. Grey) on the subject of a letter which his Hon. Colleague had written, and he trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would also be sorry for the expressions he had used. Lord J. RUSSELL (in a low tone to the Hon. Mem ber)—A Cabinet Minister cannot be sorry for his ex pressions. Mr. AGLIONBY thought, nevertheless, that the Right Hon. Gentleman would be sorry for the expres sions he had used when he came to reconsider them. The Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken of the assertions of his Hon. Colleague as having no foundation except in the " fertile imagination" of his Hon. Colleague. Now, these assertions were both true as matters of fees, be cause it was true that there was no discussion upon the appointment of the Committee, and it was also true that the lIIIMe3 were submitted to the Archbishop of Canter bury. His Hon. Colleague, he believed, did not intend to represent that the Committee was an unfair Commit tee.—(" Hear," from Mr. Horsman). It should also be remembered that his Hon. Colleague had given notice of his present motion before the Bill was brought into the other House. He believed that if the public bad known the large amount of money that was about to be vested in the Commission it would never have been appointed. Anything more pernicious than locking up so great an amount of property, to be managed by an ecclesiastical commission, could not well be conceived. The best constituted commission in the world ought net to have possession of the vast a.motintsef property which had come into the hoods of this Commission. It would get into its management, or rather into its mismanage ment, 8,000,000/. or 9,000,000/. of Property, and no commission could give satisfaction in its mode cf ad ministering such vast estates. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY hoped the Hon. Member for Cock ermouth would consent to withdraw his motion. He had always regarded the composition of the Commis sion as highly dangerous, and wAs, e from the first,.pree pared to expect that great mischief would arise from it. The fact that the secretary was closely connected with railways, and that he was it nneovabJeesin a commission composed of about 50 membarlikeht have led to the idea that mischief would follow, and he thought it was the bounden duty of the House to place the Commission on a sefsr footing. Sir R. H. INGLIS was certainly somewhat surprised to hear the Hon. Member for Cockermouth (Mr. Aglionby) state that such was the mangement of the Ecclesiastical Commission that he thought in the course of a few years it would have under its control property to the amout of 9,000,000/. or 10,000,0001., for he apprehended that it the whole ecclesiastical revenue of England in the hands of laymen, of corporations, and ,of. bishops was vested in the hands of the Commissioners it would not amount to one-tliird of that sum.—(Hear.) He was not there to defend the Ecclesiastical Commission; for ever since its institution he had opposed it, asa great violation Of the rights of property vested in the ecclesiastical body, and in the hands of individual pastors and rectors of parishes—vested in theuttietby the state, not by kings, but by private individuals. He should be ashamed of himself, however, if he could sit in that House and hear such language as he had heard from the Hon. Member for Cockermouth (Mr. Herman), believing it to be un substantiated in fact, and not rise to give it a decided denial. The Hon. Member spoke cf the treasures of the poor having been squandered and exhausted by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners. Ho denied the charge a s emphatically as the Hen. Member could make it. The " treasures of the poor" had not been in the hands of the Commissioners. and therefore they could not ha►e squandered aid exhausted them. Then the Hon. Gen tleman spoke of the bishops having given exhortations to the laity to contribute ; but did he mean to say that they gave nothing but their exhortations?—(Wear, hear.) If he did not mean that, what did he mean ? (Hear, hear.) His object clearly was that the House and the country should be left under the impression that the bishops were ready enough to take from the pockets of other people, but not to dip into their own. Now, he would state as a fact, his belief of which he had not ventured to make public Ix fore, that, in order to insti tute the bishopric of Manchester, the Archbishop of Canterbury, now deceased, the Bishop of London, hap pily still preserved in life, and, he thought, the late Archbishop of York, contributed each a sum which amounted is the aggregate to 2,5001. a year.—(Heir.) 'The Hon. Member had drawn a powerful contrast be- I tween a primitive bishop and one of the present day; but perhaps the Hon. Member would draw a similar con trast between the laity of a primitive age and of the pre sent. In Apostolic times the primitive Christians set an example which it would be well for all to follow; but the Hon. Gentleman forgot that in the altered constitu tion of society, and above all in such a state of things as existed in England, they had different ranks of society and different duties t perform; and he defied him to produce a single year in the history of England since the first outlines 'of its existing constitution began, in which the bishops did not hold a prominent place as the first estate of the realm.—(Hear, hear.) He objected to these Commissions,because their tendency was to con vert the hierarchy England, and indeed all the hum bler .clergy of the establishment, into stipendiaries.— (Hear.) That he knew to be the object of the Hon. Member for Montrose, and he believed it to be the object also of the Hon. Member for Cockermouth—Arcades ambo ! The Hon. Member for Montrose told them that twenty-five years ago he was the only Church reformer. Mr. lIUME—Not the only one. Sir R. 11. INGLIS—At least almost the only one in that House. He wished he was the only Church re former now. The Hon. Member for Cockermonth said the bishops would not Withdraw their "grasp" from the property of the Church. Did he mean to say that the bishops had not a stetuts.ble right to the property committel to them ?—and did he expect that they would withdraw their grasp from their own property? Protesting against the language used by the Hon. Mem ' ber for Cockermouth, and protesting against the ten dency of these measures, he trusted her Majesty's Ministers would be prepared to resist the present motion, and that the House would concur in such resistance, leaving the discussion of the whole question till the Bill ' which had been referred to came down from the other House.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. EVELYN DENISON said, as the House had done him the honour, on his motion, to grant a Committee to inquire into the condition and management of the Ec clesiastical Commission, and as the Committee did him the honour to desire him to draw up the report, he felt that perhaps he had failed in his duty in not taking an earlier opportunity to bring the whole matter before the House. But it was a case of great difficulty, of great magnitude and importance; and as the Government bad consented to take the matter into their own band., and adopt the recommendation of the Committee, he felt he should best accomplish the object he bad in view, and best discharge his duty both to the Committee and the House, by leaving the Government, which was really the proper medium for doing so, to carry the mea sure through the llouse.—(Hear, hear.) He endea voured iu that Committee to conduct the inquiry to the best of his belief—searching for the truth, at the same time being desirous of not creating unnecessary per > sonal annoyance to any one.—(Hear, bear.) And he I must say, as something had been :aid in the course of the debate of the Members of the Committee, that he felt he owed a great obligation to the two Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite for the fairness and candour with which they entered into the inquiry and the great ser vices which they performed on the Committee.—(Hear, hear.) If he had erred in not bringing this matter for ' ward he had only to say that he was anxious to save the time of the House, and as it was entirely contrary to his habits to snake a speech, merely for the sake of a speech, he refrained from doing so, as he believed that everything that was necessary would to done by Go vernment.—(Hear, hear.) Some evestions had been ad dressed to him by the two Membeii:roc OiCker , mouth. The Honourable Gentleman Aho s , ktro . duced"ther asked *Min Viligiiier; as re• garded the composition of the Committee, a sort of bar , gain had been made that the subject should be introduced without discussion; and he also asked him whether ; it was not another bargain that the names of the Com mittee should be submitted to the Archbishop of Can terbury. The Right Hoc. Baronet (Sir G. Grey) bad explained satisfactorily to the House what really was the state of the case as regarded the first question. So far as he (Mr. Denison) was concerned, the only bar gain he made was, that if they gave him his Committee as an unopposed motion, ho would be content; and he did not find it necessary to make any observations.— (Hear, hear.) As to the second question, lie would an swer it by giving it the most straightforward contradic tion. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Horsman) had come to him aal asked whether he did not remember some thing that took place in the lobby cf the House that led him to make the statement that the names of the Com mittee were to be referred to the Archbishop of Canter bury. The Hon. Gentleman stated positively that some thing of that kind had occurred. All he (Mr. Denison) could say was, that he would not speak positively, but that to the best of his recollection nothing of the sort ever occurred.—(Hear, hear.) He had asked his Noble Friend at the head of the Government if he would be so kind as to refresh his recollection as to whether any reference of the names of the Committee was to be made to the Archbishop of Canterbury. He could state positively that he had no direct communication with the Archbishop in regard to this Committee. His Noble Friend said he had positively no communication with the Archbishop with regard to the names; and, therefore, what the channel of communication with the Archbishop was, if such communication there was, he could not tell.—(Hear, hear.) He must say that he should have thought he was not acting fairly by lion. Members if he was to ask any gentleman to outer into a committee of inquiry which was to be .bound by any re strictions whatever.—(Hear, hear.) Ho asked that House whether in the course of the time he had had a seat in it there was anything in his conduct that oou'd lead them t suppose he was capable of acting in such a manner.—(Cheers.) He would go a step further. It had been said that the gentleman who was chairman of the Committee was the brother of a prelate. 11. would ask if any gentleman in that House had observed any thing in his conduct that could justify such an imputa tion as that statement might imply.—(Cheers.) It had also been said that several members of the Ecclesiastical Commission had nets in the Committee. Now, in selecting the members of the, Committee he wished to I have gentlemen upon it who were cognizant of the sub - jest, and he was anxious that gentlemen connected with the Ecclesiastical Commission should take part in the inquiry. He bad confidence in the strength of his case; and he would ask if it was not a great deal more satis factory to that House, and to the country, that the re port should emanate unanimously from a Committee composed of all sides, and some of them members of the Commission, than if it had come from a Committee differently constituted ?—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the subject which had been introduced to the notice of the House, he would pursue the course taken by others, and refrain from entering upon a discussion of it. He must state, however, that any gentleman who diligently read the inquiry would find many painful facts—many things that must excite regret.—(Hear, hear.) It might be necessary to have a full discussion of the details of the Bill introduced into the other House when it:came be fore them. He would, however, observe, that since the Committee sat, and since the report was made, two cir cumstances of some importance had occurred. One had Leen referred t) the defalcation of the secre tary.—(Hear, hear.) The Commission was so jealous of the funds committed to their charge, so scrupulous of the expenditure of every farthing, that they would not consent to have a commissioner whose salary would be raid from the funds of the church. He must say that he should have thought a commission intrusting such large sums of money to any individual would have taken those precautions to procure that proper amount of security which was always expected ,from any persons into whose hands money was placed.—(Hear, hear.) Ho hoped, however, that this money of the Church would not be lost. There was another point to which he would re fer. A Commission had been issued to inquire into and report on the better management of Church property, and the Noble Lord had told them that the report of that Commission would be laid on the table of the-House that evening. He would for a moment assume that for the better conduct of these matters, for the pro per management of the affairs of the Church, some cen tral board, to act as an arbitrator and an umpire, should be :appointed ; and he would ask the Noble Lord whether it was possible that the Ecclesiestical Com mission, as now constituted, could be that board of reference? Ho had no hesitation in saying, that it was impossible.—(Hear, hear.) He must frankly tell the Noble Lord that if he proposed to have two Com missioners instead of three, he would, of course, be ready to hear all the arguments that might be urged, but his impression was that it was absolutely necessary they should have that number of Commissioners,' and no fewer.— (He ex.) Ho trusted, in conclusion, that after what had occurred on both sides of -the House;the Hon. Gentleman would not think it necessary to ask the House to divide upon his motion.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. MANGLES felt that a hard measure cf justice had been dealt out to his Hon. Friend the Member for Cockermouth. In one essential respect his Hon. Friend (Mr. Horsman) had been entirely misunderstood, not only by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir G. Grey), but by his Hon. Friend (Mr. EeDenison), as to the observe- I tions made by his friend (Mr. Hartman) in regard to the constitution of the Committee whose report they were considering. He most clearly understood his Hon. Friend to speak of the constitution of the Committee, not as at all disparaging it—far from it—but as an argument a fortiori in support of its own recommendations. His Hon. Friend said, "Here was a Committee composed of a great number of the members of the Ecclesiastical Commission, and of several Ministers of State, and whore chairman was a brother cfa Right Rev. Prelate; if these Right Hon. and Hon. Gentlemen had any prejudices, they must be supposed to have a leaning towards the' proceedings of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners; there fore, if such a Committee had come to the conclusion that it was absolutely necessary that three lay Commis sioners should be added to the Ecclesiastical Commission, it was an argument a fortiori (and in that sense only, and not at all invidiously, was it urged by his Hon. Friend) that the measure of legislation :which the Go vernment intended to bring forsCard s should be based upon that foundation—namely, .that there should be three lay Members on the Ecclesiastical Commission. The Honout able Member for the University of Oxford had dealt somewhat hardly with his Hon. Friend. They all knew that Hon. Member's affection for the Church, but he (Mr. Mangles) was cet tain that there was not a name^ friend to the Establishment than the Member for Coekerneouth. They might have different views as to the test means of promulgating the Gospel, or by which the Church might Le best supported—the Hon. Paronet might be for giving greater power and greater weafth to the heads of the Church, while his Hon. Friend, though far from wishing to reduce the heads of the establishment to a stipendary condition, might be of opinion that the best way of st:en e htening the establish ment was to increase the means, power, and efficiency of the working clergy of the Church; and he (Mr. Mangles) very believed that those views had the support not only of a great part of the body of the working clergy, but also of a very large majority of the laymen of the Esta blished Church. Mr. LIORSMAN, in reply, observed that if the pro perty of the Church was not (as the Hon. Baronet had admitted) the property of the bishops, hen he would ask, whose property was it? If the bishops were not the proprietors then they must be trustees. He (Mr. Horsman) contended that the funds were not the pro perty of the bishops, but of the Church. The differ ence between the Honourable Baronet and himself was shortly this: the Honourable Baronet considered the bishops to be the masters of the Church, while he (Mr. Horsman) considered them to be its servants. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir G. Grey) and the Hon. Member for Malton (Mr. E. Denison) had shown considerable adroit ness in leading the House away from what was really the point in discussion. 'The Right Hon. Baronet had most materially misrepresented what he (Mr. Horsman) had said as to the character and feelings of the Members constituting the Committee, whose recommendation he was des,irous of seeing carried into effect. He assured the Right Hon. Baronet that he had never said that the Members of that Committee had entered upon their la bours with an intention not to do justice; or that they had motives unfriendly to the Ecclesiastical Commission. What he said wan, that the Committee was composed of gentlemen of the highest character, the greatest experi ence, and of the most extensive influence in this coun try. If he had nc t expressed himself correctly, he most certainly had intended to say that it would be impossible to select a Committee against whom it would be more difficult to find an objection, or whose con duct it would be more impossible to impugn. With re gard to what had. fallen from the Hon. Member for Malton (Mr. E. Denison) he begged to observe that as to whether there was an arrangement that the names of the Committee should be submitted to the Arch bishop of Canterbury, he had made no positive state ment on the point in his opening speech; he only said that he had bea given to understand so. There was only one further observation which hed fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet upon which he (Mr. Horsman) wished to say a word. The Right Hon. Baronet had said that he (Mr. Horsman) had not ventured to reiterate the assertions he bad made in the letter he had addressed to his constituents. There was one good reason why he had not done so. He had in that House a public ques tion to discuss, and he did not think it right that a public question shoultl be mixed up with personal mat ters. 'The Right Hon. Gentleman had charged him with having shrunk from repeating in that House that which he had asserted elsewhere. Now, he had been a Member of the House of Commons for fifteen years, and that man must have been in that House for fifteen years to very little purpose if he did not know that in ventur ing to make such a statement as he had made out of doors he was doing'an act which might be attended with very serious consequences. He (Mr. Horsman) was fully aware of that. - He knew that by making such a statement he placed himself in a position of great responsibility and of no small peril. He knew that the very publication of such a statement was very dangerous, ' and was likely to place him in a very critical position, because, in the first instance, it must prejudice every impartial person against the man who made such an ac cusation; and must enlist the sympittbieli of every right minded man in favour of those who were so accused. But, notwithstanding all thsto—notwithstanding the knowledge he Lad of the responsibility and of the perils ho might incur, he deliberately wrote his state - inset, and published it as a letter; and on the first day that Parliament met be gave notice of his present mo tion. Having done se, he thought the Right Hon. Ba ronet might have taken a different course from that which he had thought it fit to adopt ; he might have avoided all allusion to the subject, or he—(Here the Hon. Member sunk his voice so low that he became inaudibleiu Ahe , gallery.) • But 4aes had no- disposition to fnalcA kify further.. remarks vitons slaty uubject Right Hon. Baronet having, however, insinuated th'at he (Mr. Horsman) had shrunk from repeating the state ment he had made elsewhere, he did not wish the House to be under the impression that he was at all disposed to retract any portion of that statement.—(The Hon. Gen- Veman here made some further observations, but none of which reached the reporters' gallery.) He con cluded by saying, that since he had given notice of his resolution a Bill had been introduced in the House of Lords on the subject, and he was not therefore disposed to go on with his motion at present; but when the ques tion came down from the other House Le should be ready to give it a full discussion. The motion was then, by leave, withdrawn. Mr. H. DRUMMOND obtained leave to bring in Bill to facilitate the transfer of real property. On the motion of Sir R. INGLIS, a standing Com mittee of sixteen Menabers was appointed to assist the Speaker in the direction of the library, and to whom should be referred all matters relating thereto. Mr. MOFFATT moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to bankrupt Members of the House of Commons, and to facilitate the recovery of debts from such Members. The Hon. Member said the Bill was the same in principle as the one he introduced last year. Sir G. GREY had no objection to the introduction of the Bill; but, after the experience of last 3 ear, he could not promise the Hon. Member his support. Leave was then given. THE ARCTIC EXPEDITION. Sir R. INGLIS moved for copies of any reports or statements from the officers employed in the Arctic ex peditions, or from any other persons, which have been laid before the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty in respect to the resumption of the search for Sir John Franklin's expedition ; of any plan or plans of eserch, whether by ships or boats, up to the present date; copy or extracts from any correspondence or proceedings of the Board of Admiralty in relation to the Arctic expe dition (since the date of the last return to this louse in 1849) ; copies of the orders issued by the Board of Ad miralty to Captains Collinson, Relic t, and Moore, and to Lieutenant Pullen ; and also copy of the instructions ' given to Dr. Rae through the Hudson's Bay Cora l. any ; of any reports made by any officer or office s employed in the late expeditions and addressed to etc Board of Admiralty ; end of the latest chart of the I'.l ,r Sea compiled by order cf the Board of Ached tatty. It is as not necessary, in making this motion, that he should quote any precedent in its sup port. It was one in respect to which he hoped he should have the same cordial concurrence of the House as he experienced in respect to the last motion he made on the subject. At the same thee, though ho as aware that there was not, technically, any opposi tion to the production of the papers, yet he would not nonce 11 from the House that his object was not simply to obtain those papers, but to induce the House to ex press the same sympathy with the subject to which the papers adverted as had been done on a former occasion. Ho was desirous of exciting an expression of sympathy with those of their fellow -countrymen who were now passing their fifth year—if God should have spared their lives—amid the horrors of an Arctic winter. Ho would earnestly urge upon her Majesty's Ministers to take such measures for the relief of their fellow-countrymen as their own zeal and as the science of those by whom they were surrounded might teach them es be the most applicable for the purpose—that of rescuing Sir John Franklin and those who were associated with him; that they would, in fact, do what they had on a former occasion done in sending forth an expedition in search of that gallant officer and his gallant crew. The Government ought but slightly to esteem that person who could move for even a slip of paper in reference to future proceedings, who did not at the same time acknowledge what they had already done upon the subject. At the same time ho was bound to urge upon them not to lose a month, a week, a day, or even an hour in seeking to release those gallant men from their perilous position; for every farmer expedition had failed, if not entirely, or principally, yet in some measure at least from not h av i ng b een sent f ort h f rom this country at an earlier period. He believed that during last month all the crews of the whalers were en gaged for the ensuing season ; and that hardly any whalers would remain in this country by the end of March. In order that the search might be effectual, it ought to commence is Baffin's Bay at the end of May, or the beginning of June, so that it might take advantage of the first opening in July. He ventured to hope, without wishing to disparage any other mode of search, that her Majesty's Government and the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty would take into consideration the expe diency of applying steam navigation directly and prima rily in the search. It was not the suggestion of Sir J. C. Ross, but of his predecessor Sir John Ross, that steam paddles might be used with great advantage, provided they could be adapted to the vessels. He (Sir R. Inglis) had learned from high authority that the mea sure was not only practicable but might be easily adapted and applied most usefully in such an enterprise. He woUld also - suggest that instead of two vessels being employed the same amount of tonnage should la distri buted among four vessels. The object was not so much to go from one point to another as to make a search in all directions. Supposing four vessels should go out, he would suggest that each vessel should be independent of the others. A stimulant would thus be given to the energy of each, and greater results would probably follow than could be secured by any other mode. He bad not said a word on the subject as being one connected with humanity, with national honour, se with science; but the cause of humanity ought to compel them, and a feeling of national honour ought to induce them to do what ho now urged upon her Majesty's Goverc ment, without a word being said about science. Fur what did they hear at the close of the last session P That the Governments of two other Stat were engaged in making preparations for rescuing our own countrymen. He beliesal there was no precedent in history of one nation sending forth an expedition to rescue the lives of the subjects of another nation. Ho did not know whether, either in the case of Russia or of the United States, their hopes had been realised, but the honour of England required that efforts should be made by England herself to rescue her own countrymen. It had been suggested that the use of small balloons would facilitate the search. He gave no opinion upon the sub ject, but he understood that such a mode might be made subsidiary to the other means employed. This was not a private question; ho would not, therefore, introduce private considerations, but when ho reflected on the extraordinary conduct of the wife of Sir John Franklin, of her self-denying efforts in the cause of her husband and of his companions; when he considered the hun dreds of persons who were interested in the fate of the husbands and brothers now engaged in that expedition, he thought he did not unreasonably prefer his suit to the First Lord of the Admiralty when he expressed a hope that ho would take the subject into consideration, not merely from a sense of humanity toe ands those who were missing, or from a seesc el na tional honour, or from a consideration for the cause of science, but a!so from a sympathy for the angui sh e nd suspense that h a d b een l ett by so many t f those wile, though breathi ng the same genial air wit h ourselves at home, were suff,ri ng f or th o se who were now separated from them, and w ere ex i s ti n g in the regions of an ice bound zone. H e b a d reaso n to hope that his Right Hon. Friend was not only prepared to concede the papers he had asked for, but to indicate to the House at once that it was the firm intention of the Government to comply with the suggestions that had been made. Mr. ANSTEY, in seconding the motion, said he wished to draw the attention of the Right Hoe. Baronet to a proposal which emanated, he believed, from a gentle man named WCormack,who was formerly surgeon of the zrehus, one of the missing vessels, when it was engaged in the Antarctic expedition, that there should beran ex pelt-ion to be carried on mainly by boats having a vessel as a Point d'appui at the head of B,ffin's Bay, to loves tigite Smith Sound, Jones's Sound, and the Wellington Channel. The impoi tsnce of the suggestion rested on the hypothesis that from the long time that had elapsed since the missing vessels were seen, they might conclude that if any of the officers or men were now in existence, they were arrested at some point between which and the habitable regions of the globe there was no communica tion, and, therefore, probably they would be found in the neighbourhood of Parry's Island, that being in the direc tion in which Sir J. Franklin was to proceed. The author of the suggestion had volunteered to take the command of the boats engaged in the very arduous enterprise, and as the only question of expense was the outlay necessary to enable him to reach the poir:t indicated on board a whaler, which might be employed to carry out the object in other quarters, he hoped that it would not be neg leCed. Sir. F. T. BARING said he was much obliged to his Friend for giving him the opportunity, and he had intended to take the first, of stating the course the Go vernment prcposed to pursue with regard to this expe dition. He had thought it right, however, as the time for sealing the expedition had arrived, that the Govern moot should take upon it:e'f the responsibility of not de laying the expedition to I3ehring's Straits. He would now state that it was the intention of the Government to send out an expedition in search of Sir J. Franklin from the eastward of Lancaster Sound; but he thought it better to reserve the details of the course adopted by the Government, and to lay them on the table in the shape of a minute or paper, as they were not at present entirely fixed. He could assure the Hon. Gentleman the Member fur Youghal, that although he was quite ready and anxious to give the most respectful attention to every suggestion on the matter, many of the proposals which he had heard that evening had been previously made to the Government, and had been much con sidered by them, and they would endeavour to adopt those which they really believed to be the mot efficient for the object they had in view. He thought it right to state that he had never done the House of Commons or the country the injustice to sup pose that expense would be an obstacle when the lives of their fellow-men were at stake.—(Hear, hear.) The time might unfortunately come when they would have no right to risk lives in such a service, but he did think eee still temained such a hope of the existence of these persons from the advice and opinion of those who were better able than others to form an opinion on the sub ject, as justified the Government in taking every mea sure which they could fairly and properly take to give assistance if possible—at any rate to ascertain the fate of our unfortunate countrymen. At the same time, whilst he did not underrate the value of the extension of science and of geographical knowledge, he had not atdertakect these expeditions for the purpose of such ex tension, but for the sole purpose of saving the lives of the men engaged in Sir J. Franklin's expedition. His Imperial Majesty the Emperor of Russia had most cor dially and kindly afforded every assistance in his power, tied he was also bound to state that the Hudson's Bay Company had not only acceded to every repreientation that was made to them, but bad volunteered several me satires which they thought might secure the object in view. Mr. WYLD was extremely gild to hear that it was not the intention of the Government to make any greater qterifice-of life and money upon expeditions conducted like the former one. Ile believed that all persons who bad paid any attention to the subject knew well that, the state of the current being from west to east, the expe dition had to encounter not only the perils of the season, but an immense accumulation of ice from the west to the east, caused by the flow of the tide. He entertained a confident hope that Sir John Franklin was still alive, and that ho was most probably detained at the southern portion of Melville Island. It ould be presumptions in him, of course, to suggest what course the Government ought to adopt; but, at the same time, he thought it very desirable that a communication should be attempted with the portion of that country not hitherto explored, by means of a land expedition. A large sum of money bad already been expended to no purpose, but in futui o searches the chances of success would be far greater if the discoveries were made from the land and not from the sea.—(fie .r, bear.) Sir B. H. INGLIS thanked the Right Hon. Gentle man, tte First Lord of the Admiralty, for the state ment he had made, which he was sure would give satin fiction to the House and to the country. The motion was then agreed to. COUNTY FINANCIAL BOARDS. Mr. M. GIBSON moved fir leave to bring in a Bill to establish county financial boards for the assessing of county rates, and for the administration of county ex penditure in England and Wales., but made no further observations upon it. Mr. FREWEN simply seconded the motion. Mr. DISRAELI said, before this question was put he should like to inquire of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had moved it in a manner so suspiciously quiet.— (A laugh.) Last session, when he (Mr. Disraeli) bt ought before the House his motion on total taxation, the Right Hon. Gentleman favoured the House with an ingenious speech, the object of which was to prove that the occupiers of land did not pay the rat•Ns but the owners of the soil paid them. Now he wished, before leave was given for the introduction of this Bill, that the Right Hon. Gentleman, with that eassiowr which distinguished him, would answer the question he was now going to put to him. What was his opinion iu proposing to introduce this project of law? What was his opinion on this highly important and interesting sub ject?—(A laugh.) Was it his opinion that the occu piers cf land did pay those rates? He supposed that to be the Right Hon. Gentleman's present opinion, as I e was now proposing a representative government which coald only be the consequence of that conviction. But if that were his real opinion, then he (Mr. Disraeli) should take leave to remind him and his friends that on another occasion they would have the opportunity of supporting a proposition which he should make to the House. Mr. M. GIBSON said that that was not the time to enter int) such a discussion as the Hon. Gent!eman in vi:e I him to commence—(Hear)--but if it were true, as he had often heard, that the interests of the landlord and tenant-carmers were one, the Hon. Gentleman could not object to the tenant-farmers having a voice in controlling the expenditure of the country.—(Hear, hear.) It must, however, be admitted that, although the occupier would in the first instance pay the rate, in the ultimate settle rai-nt between the landlord and the tenant it would fall on the owner. Mr. NEWDEGATE wished to ask whether, consider ing the smallness of the sums administered by the ses sions, it was worth while to overturn a system which had existed fir years and establish a nominnl control in the rate-payers? Almost all the expenditure of counties eas now under the control of the Home-office, and it would be absurd to establish groat machinery, for an in significant object. HUME said that the principle of the Bill was the same as that which was before the House last ses sion, and its object was, simply, to place ratepayers in counties on the same footing as ratepayers in boroughs, by giving them some countrol over the expenditure. Sir R. INGLIS made a general suggestion to the °frost that when there was anything in the title of a Bill, or the speech of the Member moving for leave to intro duce it, which indicated that it was one which the Go vernment could not support, Ministers should at once oppose its introduction.—(Hear, hear.) It was the custom at present to allow a number of Bills to he in troduced, which, after occupying several Wednesdays in unprofitable discussion, finally met the fate which they merit d at first—rejection.—(Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY expressed his concurrence to a certain extent in the suggestion of the Hon. Baronet; but, as to the present Bill, he was net prepared to express op position to its principle. Mr. STAFFORD said that the question was whether the incidence of taxation fell upon the owner or the occupier of land, and with respect to this question the Hon. Member for Manchester blew hot and cold. It aas too much the habit of Hon. Gentlemen opposite to an nounce what they called a great principle—to declare that they were determined to stand by it, and on the following evening to do that which would practically abrogate it. It was only last week the mover of the Address told the House that the incidence of property fell upon the owner of the I,nd. Now this great prin ciple was qualified by the Right Hon. Member for Man chester and the Hon. Member for Montrose.—(lloar, hear.) The principle was a vital one, and Hon. Members melt not be permitted to blow hot and cold with respect to it. Mr. AGLIONBY concurred with the Hon. Member for Oxford University in thinking that Government ought not to indulge the propensity of certain Members to introduce useless Bills fur dull Wednes day debatep.—(Hear, hear.) If Ministers were bound to support all the measures which they allowed t be,brought in they . would soon see the necessity of checking the practice. As it was they caused Hon. Members to suppose that these Bills would obtain their support, but in the end they found that, although they might have their good wishes, they could not get their votes. With respect to the question before the Mme, he would not undertake then to determine whether the rates fell upon the owner or the occupier; but whoever it was, that party ought to have the control of their expenditure.—(" Hear, hear," from the Oppo sition benches.) In his opinion there could not be a worse body for administering the rates than the magis trates. They were appointed by the Lord-Lieutenants, and had no! interest in common with the ratepayers except in as far as they were owners of property. Sir J. PAKINGTON agreed with the last speaker that the rates should be administered by the persons whO paid them, and those were the owners of land. The change proposed by the Bill involved most important considerations connected with criminal justice, and ho hoped that the Government would not support it. Mr. FREWEN said he was compelled to oppose his Hon. Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire on this occas i on . When the Bill was before the House last year he supported it ; and he had since received resolutions, adop:ed at several farmers' clubs in hi s di v i s i on of Sus sex, approving of the course which he had taken on that occasion. The expenditure for the East Division of Sussex had doubled between 1834 and 1843, and Lal considerably increased again since the latter period. In the present mode of raising and administering county rates, that principle of the British Constitution which &clan d that the people should not be taxed except through their representative; was wholly disregarded. In some counties an extraordinary system of favouritism pre i vailed as rega r d e d t h e appo i ntment of mag i stra t es fir it was found that gentlemen of large property were passtd over, whilst others who were possessed of compa ratively little property were nominated.—(Hear.) Mr. DISRAELI said that the Hon. Member for East Sussex was not in the Muse when ho (Mr. Disraeli) spoke, otherwise he would have known tLat he had not, at present, said a word against the Bill, but only called for a definitioteof the principle on which it was introduced. Mr. HENLEY requested that Government would no leave the um , gistracy responeibl f tb vice cf the country and the care of gaols, and deprive them of the means denoting those ohj-els.—(lic:zr.) Sir G. GREY said that he would not consent to ex clee the magistracy from all control cv3r county rates. Mr. HEYWOOD said that the Bill would leave a large share of power in the hands of the magistracy. Leave was then given far the introduction of the Bill. Mr. HALSEY moved for and obtaiee 1 leave to bring in a Bill to amend the rating of small tenements. On the motion of Mr. THORN ELY, the Select Com mittee on Public Petitions was appointed. Mr. ANSTEY obtiined leave to brine , in a Bill to consolidate and amend th e Irish Fishery Acts. Ile de scribed the Bill a; being founded on the recommenda tions of the Committee of last s(:ssion. Mr. MONSELL obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend an Act of the last sessiln for making, prolision for the collection of county cess in Ireland, and f..r the remuners Von cf the collectors thereof. Mr. FRE [YEN moved for leave to bring in a Bill t amend the law relating to the holding c f benefices in plurality. He had been confirmed in the opinion that such a measure was necessary lay observing that dispen sations had for some time past been gra! to, for holding plEralities at the rate of more thitu one per wetly, and that among these was one in favour of a ckrgyrnan who was allowed to hold tTO livings—one worth 1,1004, and the ether worth more than 1,0004 Sir G. GREY oble_tA to the Bill of last session, not bccause he thought the law relating t) pluralities did not admit of amendment, but because he thought the Bill defective. 11 , should be happy to assist the Hon. Gentleman in perfecting the measure; but le hoped that an early day would not be fixed for the second reading, as there were various points which required careful investigation. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. The Lords Commissioners' Speeeh having been con sidered, a Committee of Supply was fixed for tc morrow. The House adjourned at. a Quarter to Ten o'clock. TO THE SECRETARY OF THE BRADFORD REFORM ASSOCIATION. Sir,—On Monday the 4th, the question which formed the principal point of contest on the Address, was de bated over again with a sort of bated breath, on occa sion of what is termed bringing up the Report. In the course of this something was done towards throwing light on portions of the subject in which you and yours are so peculiarly interested, and among others, upon the following. I wish you would invite the attention of your thought ful workingmen,—and I know you have individuals of that class able to grapple with any subject it is possible to lay before them if they have time to take it orderly from its beginning,—to the following view of their ease, and finally take their opinions on its troth. That their position in general is much improved, no body when I was with you attempted to deny. Why is it improveJ? Is it not distinctly traceable to this fact, that more custom has come to the shop? That they can get more food for the same money than they used to do, may be one part of the reason; but this 'night have taken place, and still their position have been no bett:,r, if the quantity of custom to the shop had falltn off as there were some to prophesy. We will not enter into any exact calculation of how much or how little altera tion in the custom might have kept them as they ore; but they know full well, that what has happened at Bradford, is that Bradford trade is good, which means that Bradford 'goods are in good demand,—that some body will buy them and pay for tht m, and that the con sequence is that workmen in general aro in good em ployment, to the extent even of finding occupation for the hand-loom weavers, who a few years ago stood for lorn, as men whose mode of working was such as none could afford to entertain. Who is it, then, that buys Bradford goods and pays for them, and did not do it a year or two ago? I will tell them who it is, if any of them have not guessed it themselves. It is the people who eat foreign corn, and pay for Bradford goods to go abroad in exchange. The corn-eaters give their money to the merchant; but the merchant, or two or three merchants playing into one another's hands, buy your Bradford goods, aed send them abroad, where through a process of the same kind with the foreign merchant or merchants, they clothe the people who grew or sold the corn. One-third of your trade at this moment, is to go abroad. Stop the corn coming in, and as you were told a few weeks ago, you will be put three upon two, or three of you will have to divide the employment that now falls to two. Do not puzzle the case with questions of Socialism, and whether it would not be better if all Bradford were their own masters, and appointed a commit t,:e to divide the profits to every man according to his deserts. This will not be the case this year, nor next. In the mean time, look to the thing that brings grist to the mill to-day. Set this down as a settled point, that as far as the existing state of things is concerned, living at Bradford depends on keeping open the foreign trade, and if you cannot prevent its being shut up, you must get ready for going three upon two, with such patience as you may. The inference I draw from all this is, that in this ques tion of foreign corn the battle is not between the English corn-grower and what he calls the "untaxed foreigner," but it is between the taxed corn-grower and the taxed Bradford man, who Las as good a right to exercise his trade as the ether has, and will make as great exertions to do fe,id it. To put this in the broadest light, it shall be supposed,if anybody please, that it is absolutely true that the foreigner pays no tuxes, and pays no wages either, or that inhis country it snows corn, and the price of it con sists of nothing but the expense of shovelling it up and putting it on board a ship. And still, I say, there will not be the shadow of pretence, why because the English corn grower pays taxes, he should stop your trade of making corn at Bradford, who f ay taxes as well as he. One thing more, if you lave time to attend to it. I have no doubt you would consent to shut up shop at Bradford and go into the strette, if you thought the good of the country carol for it. Now then for the good of the country; and I submit to you whether the good of the country would not to affected by the stop ping of your trade, exactly as it would be by stop ping omnibuses to make every man pay five times as much fur travelling in a coach by himself. The coachmen are deprived of their receipts; but does not some other person get them? If you save two shil lings out of half-a-crown by riding in the omnibus, do not you expend them on the baker or the butcher, or in some way that makes it exactly the same to trade? The end then is simply this, that in one way you get some thing for your two shillings, and in the other you get nothing. Add together therefore all the shilling's wet ths that are thus got by Owe who ride in omnibuses, and yon have the measure of the national loss which would arise if ere were an Act of Parliament to put them down. Of exactly the same nature would be the results to the balance-sheet t f the community, if your honest trade were stopped. So go on with good consciences, as men who are struggling for your country's good and for your own. If I hale made a single man's view clearer by this letter, it has not been thrown away. Oa Tuesday, a long debate on the Ecclesiastical Commission, ending in the withdrawal of the motion. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, AN OLD REFORMER. London, Feb. 6, 1850. THE SUSPECTED POISONING AT HACKN EY.-- Ye terday morning, at twelve o'clock, the adjourLed inquiry was resumed, for the third time, at the Foun tain Tavern,UpperClapton, relative to the death of Jam( a Merritt, aged 34 years, a turneock in the employ of the East London Water Company, who died on Thursday, the 24th ult., from the effects of meanie, alle4ed to have been administer(d to him by his wife, Ann Merritt, who now stands remanded until Saturday next, charged with having caused her husband's death. The Coroner said, tore he proceeded in examining the numerous wit nesses, he would inform the jury that since their last meeting he had received a communication from Mr. Andrews, the summoning officer, that the de ceased's father had died suddenly under precisely similar circumstance', and that considerable sus. picion attached to the accused that site had poisoned her father-in-law as well as her husband. He had, therefore, deemed it necessary to order the disinterment of the body, a post mo, tem examine tion, and also an analysis of the contents of the stomach, to ascertain, if possible, if there was any foundation for the rumour. He did not intend to call witnesses in that case at the present inquiry, but should empanel a fresh jury at a future time. The following additional evi dence was then adduced:--Mary Gillett, the wife of a labouring man, residing in the adjoining house to the deceased, said that on Thursday last, after the adjourn ment of the inquest, Mrs. Merritt entered the house, and asked her if she had heard that poison had been found in the deceased's stomach. Witness replied in the affirmative, when Mrs. Merritt exclaimed, " I am in nocent ; he was a dear good husband, and it is not likely I s h ou ld do such a thing." She ' then added, " Dear creature, if that is the case, he has done it by his own hand." Witless remarked at the time that it was not very likely, as he had pur chased a new pair of boots the night previous to his death. Witness also knew the deceased's father, and saw him alive on Saturday, the 29th of September last. He died on the following day; and for the last few hours previous to his death he was suffering from pains, and under similar circumstances as the deceased. By the Coroner—The deceased belonged to a benefit society, and early on the morning of his death Mrs. Merritt ap plied to the society for the burial money, and received 31. 155., a portion of the sum she was entitled to on th e death of h er h us b an d. By the jury—Witness could not undertake to say that the deceased's father belonged to the society. Other witnesses were examined, but their evidence was of no public importance. The Coroner said some further time was necessary to enasle the police to make further inquiries, and it would therefore to nect sary to adjourn again. In the interim the body of the de ceased's father would be thoroughly examined, and the results laid before another jury. The inquiry was ac cordingly adjaurned until Monday next. THE MONSTER FISH IN THE CHANNEL —We last week noticed that some of these fish had become entan gled with the nets (f he fishing boat, named the Crite ri arid that the crew, fearing their lives were jeopardise.l by these monsters being near their boats, cut the nets a !rift and returned to this port without them. We aro glad to learn tint the nets hive since been picked u p by another boat, and will be returned to the proper owners, who are poor men, and could ill-afford to sIU.- tain such a loss. Some gentlemen of this neig,. hbourhood (among whom is Mr. J. Dymond, f George-street), it - terested themselves in the poor fishermen's behalf, and have obtained subscriptions t) provide a new set of nets for them, which, of course, is now rendered unnecessary. The loss however to the fishermen is considerable, by the damage done to the nets, and by their being thrown out of employment for some time, but we hope the sum al ready subscribed is sufficient to prevent the poor fellows being sufferers to any material extent by their misfor ttme.—Devonport Independent. NAVAL A THE SUPPLY OF SPIRITS TO SEAMEN: i s..r committee of flagofficers, and captains with .Adanr_t ria a Pa) am :alai tin in the chair, is noW sitting at the ka all to pronounce on the expediency of reduchig te,s present allowance el grog which is daily served cot.` o üb: eeamen e f her Majesty's navy, a fair comp in being made to them by a proportionate increase, thus l o arneutit c f the pay. That the object which it s ~. preposed to arrive at is a great and important d sl,u e .t r t attito there can be no doubt, as it is a notorious nt'e B be t 0 e otejority of punishments which take place r esu lt S rstish navy at e either directly or indirectly the f o o! drunkenn , se; and the transition from " the e s b e e e e r :s , e- e can" to the cat-o'-nine tails is but too frequentlY 1 "rience ef the inevitab!e laws of cause and effect. the Intensle,l reform is, howeuer, no t entirely a new chet°l/o', the result ef modern temperance preaching. As esrs 1 iu 1824, when teetotalism was a thing not d re amt 0 so our philosophy, and the daily allowance of rum PeV es s was v no less than half a pint. a committee of flag who h re' was assembled, with Lord Exmouth at its 'Jai , we e r , pee tad it as their unanimous opinion that` he diseip I r e e f the fleet and the health of the seamen ould be n ti f tonally benefited by a reduction in the allowan ce it cl a spirits, and they reported to the Board of Admir" :bat the allowance of rum should be reduced nearly n -half, it, just equivalent for the reduction being C o . to the seamen in money. The decision of the c oo - mittee was adopted, and there was every exeeeniiieg that the most favourable results would ere long 5 0,, 5 , from . the new system. These hopes were, W eser , u t ; vo tined to be crushed in the bud—a Bill being Pas sed • mira s c , ul b o y u,s s l vhich the present la] s y u e r a e rs af,er, in 1826, for the equalisation of liquid Ow y ae r d es t t h cr e ed s , ea u m r au n ' e s ar a l teblished • y llot s v o a , nc t e o o t f ie g f r e lf i ro; p t o!tioes of which it had just been curtailed, an" -foe fhas retained :up to the present day. There is . e the thing so natural, so familiar to British ears , 1 ° et a association of seamen with grog, that it would , ro° Imperial measure wasicse ha"' he a hopeless task to endeavour giber. that one is not a necessary adjunct to the 0 or Yet in the American navy grog is noltn ew 'tee at least the exception and not the rule—the coffee or ients . pot is the sober substitute to the grog-can; a nd ' evidence that there is no disadvantage in the systemg la a that the case in fact is the reverse—is thesfset b a t skiii service requiring all the energy, hardihood, :I s err e that a seaman can possess—namely, the who,' es a jog the ships of the United Strates have confessedly :rhos the English out of the South Seas and Pacific, °branch monapolised that once flourishing and profitable ( f our commerce. Evident, however, as are the advantages temperance movement in our navy would be e, , ! i te be er and reatly as its efficiency and character weal .4011 ' hanced by it, there are certain consideratione • b nit and w hie render it a delicate question to apprae-, m o b the t c ; shoul ' d dictate caution as to the mode lo wa - for tes firm is to be introduced. It will be necesearf sos e i committee in proposing their measures to 3 . s dpr his guardianship of what the seaman would Nul l a ,"•alits rights, and whilst the advancement of better cut-e'best is held in view it should be made evident that t al ", sea interests, as well as the the true well-being, O f with whole:ea: man are being attended to. la onli sc The officers s ho compose the committee, lviaatisibis riistineuisbed not only in his professional, Teller administrative character as the Admiral of th e ,g tbes ° ~ their president, form a sufficient guarantee that tio considerations will be held in due regard. ,"„`'.. eaP e ' fullest evidence as well as the weight of the ir 0 rience will be brought to bear upon the PORTSMOUTH, FEB. s.—Capt din George r ks r e aerial qu estioa• ede riolt Rich (1823) is selected to succeed to the sueeri%7anife i ' of the Royal William Victualling-yard aosst1:11, Hospital at Devonport, vice Captain TouP i'" ce- ea s. and er The Hercules, 72, store ship, Master C° l l. -- 01 the Fulton, arrived at St. Helen's in the night, 'are the Mediterranean, and came up to Spithead ht,' S he sailed from Malta on the 7th ult , and Gibralta! fall 24th. She has brought home ' a companY, of 460 Artillery, and detachments of the 56th, 67th, a.-- , regiments invalided. Skir it '' ' The Hydra steam-sloop, Commander G. 0 int ° arrived to-day at Spithead, and soon after 0 %00. harbour, from the south-east &eat of AraCriCa 6 4 0 - She left four days before the packet Linne t, w hic pre? rived last Friday week; her packet newF, thert'reeti has been forestalled. She brought the draft cf f ', ba tbe from the Republic of the River Plata for apere"'` leaned , from Government, all that is to be at present g, 00 0 ttohet uLt rA h h e donait eo 7r n ap s i t ot r yl u ic e 3 t , ion of which is, that : v t i,t, l h a o b r a ep, s rs e e : a e on e i r d t, i ti e Brighton with Commanderhi s I, f 00 /I°' Hydra sailed from Rio on the 13th of Decegov e S'aearf , and South Coast Railway this afternooe. ~..,1 at Ascension on the 29th, Goree on the 12th of e f r ola rd and Teneriffe on the 23J. The Tortoise store al),betere, ship, Capt. Hutton, and the Spy brigantine, Lieu it inland • were the only men-of-war at Ascension, which the were the only men-of-war at AzceniBiO news 01 t he 0 ,: was very healthy-. She brings no later news ° f r ecem cent engagement on the Gambia. At Gorse tL e .. / eV Commodore and the bulk of his squadron were a b ",„ t ee drzvous. The only passenger brought b°n le i.,' o ti Hydra is M. Figuet, late master (f a merchant s ' l g P illea tile coast of Africa. The Hy dra has caPtoreci lo os, slavers since she has been out, y and liberated 3 5 ° % s eas whom she took off a wreck. She is ordered to bee' to T be te pa r id rin o u ff e . Regent, 90, Commodore arrived th Ow at Lisbon, ,from Malta, on the 24th ult., to ta ke "---° mand of the squadron of evolution. d c if. The Scourgesteam-sloop, Commander Lor al t• sailed from rom Lisbon for Malta on the 30th u lt. 6 0 flea/ •e, a . The squadron was daily ex., ciscd, and the leae ll e stn. (steam guard-ship), ' ip), is reported to be the su art e° il whole .The Commodore intended e divg 0° proce cruise in about ten days from the above date• l G ef l t ad y i e a s t t o u r r , d l a i y av i i u n r g m in aueira and Wind S.W.; strong PLYMOUTH,rMarti'', _. 'ED. 5. her Majesty's goon — -el tow her tender the Jackal s lir APPOINTMENTS. NV Wooawacn FEB. M.D. ( ' s.—Surgeon Alexanclee glare 1849), to the Wlas vote - ' i me}, S, sloop, at ' .ship' Naval Caskt John T. Swann, to the Fisgard toe at Woolwich. su i rv sh ey e i ni ng em ve h s e s r e s l 0 f if Of Acting Gunner David e ro , Mackley, to the Seaaa, having uldo reon the south-east coast of 'relocated 10 Eautdmeitdrhi the visit Wool • the Board cf th e coast Admiralty their Lordshi c p b ; wich Dockyard did not arrive here CO; important nen business to transact in tatso• aß eorm a kit Wool W iry had a lengthened interview b oa studitd Lieutenant Thomas B. Christopher 0 941) ' XP I.(4 steam ;;ti the facts at Woolwich Ve k e o, or was ' e sista txaminedSAndpmeririnaltetyn.dent of this pit h sa 1 passed to-Jay by Mr. Trie or d er tbl it n to the chief . engineer. The recent oruld pr. a a h e .6 • all efficers studying steam at this dockyara ---naeasiee.•„ ceed to Portsmouth to be examined previous. t° Y 00 • has been rescindedand a - a w ll ei c e or , lr. Trickt . d and pass them • in future, or until further orders ao lote ~. in u an t der John H. Woolwich) who wag ePt' 1 949 , aidt tidy steam at factory is Jo i ll 8 1;90 1 h to i.' s, a attended four months, but subsequentif o f 0. - to be present at the experimental trisle so pis': Niger and the Basilisk, has again joined be:Augeeo), his course of study on t h e • of e' i- , a passing Christopher. bas w of th e el' The Niger steam-sloop is tote taken out. if he Dam`s on Friday, and on the following Tuesday will te be e sa• gated to .Portsmouth by the crew of the PS S A ' r Te e vessel, under Lieutenant Parks, their conaloanmee;iergaeo commander and crew of the Dasher will brivg the so e steam sloop round from Portsmouth to the rive aof fitted with her engines by John Penn and Sena 41- ' Tee Monkey steam-vessel, M —astor-Commanoc- isaera 0 t he ea is a dn. orders to accompany the Niger dove lee erlY ° p d ° The Grappler iron 1 'l,ames 55 01 on service on the coast of Africa, under 7, for 0 Lysaght , was sold out of the service last at the vino, */ The Rocket, annou nce d f or sale 51/113° $ not disposed of. _...... , it gisrt--- . t .., THE NEW N t t a m i tha n t a a stated , t su c - c b e yA s sv.Altt Admiral i N s s v l seldom 1 . h—e (says:;T 1 I t seem e t e b ffi e Fs a } r el ti aidektreel l ' i g asp e ct r fit ° g d il ' the ;alien hat an of a literary chief 0 4„ ale 0 by as . potent a successor; but, f astely lu' , 11; • A ortur before e " e at ' rimers of tales of the " deep," the vvork JO" .00 exception to the rule, de mantle t f the lat e it or rl itse til Captain Marry adjuste-, eviclerloto the _ at having gracefully shoulders of a gallant fla-officer, vib ° is io is °alf capable of wearing it with honour . ~ The reto - .00 '' it bri,,h er than a more tale of the sea; it is, in fact'. it o fe constructed narrative, abounding With bal m e se° t he sea and Ian 0• capes and dangers by - TO 8-e ber 0 0 1 ll' 6 chiefly laid in the Mozambique Chorine , e3 eOP s o Petrel 'is cruising in search of • T he 0 /.ll 'l pirates. 01 the br i ' the crew and , passengers of an Indiatnan fr crest is t pg , len:Ands us of Cooper's best effort • its 'ci d : 1 mg and absorbing. The volume's' are full °` 0 / 04 0. possess many highly dramatic scenes, and bil en v° t l ; ib e °llo4. quiet humour running through the whole; •- sI f • last, not least, its characters are portrays with tree "° are portra) , e dit ness and graphic power which does cre A p I: ter' - ary sailor."— Weekly News. 6 sl4slg ~,v Tee t h ADVER TISEMENT.]—THE TEETII `", -- f tb o i jtbt , REACT]. — It may fairly be said, the stn ' J O he 0 a n P cl ( n ' greatly upon the state of the be g ree dy 11 , P oi the state or the bodily as g•- • ipo3 health dep ,ll . , n one o ur the state of the T c ell ] . • The Hemet °p r a per & heti infinitesimal doses in all cases of weakness sect aot i , no '" tli ( n w ess, is no doubt the right one as culture is a, To or _ o erpowersfl, but assisted. The'United D oti , socd.oo, P tho wder carries this out to its utmost ext„, e , ili t ' e ci es• ° A e a 1 1 1 /„ ‘ most strengthening articles in the 01 2 : -- 0 , 1.1 gr 0 " - PP ' absorbed econtained in it, and a small portion beL e '',o 3oo t he , every day, not only strengthens the ie b o ses I si the wnole system. It likewise thoroughlY c oo bre ho l i t o ' teeth, gradually removing the tartar, putiie 101,' thereby precedinginfection, and corrects acidity o 9 0 mouth and stomach.—Address, Ross and Sou e ' j ,,, z 0 1 120, thshopsga,tc-Ate t, London . •,, iof o S.,';Pg [ADVERTISEMENT.] Bell's. Life ••- or - 1 .i.: S”uanday, Feb. 10, will contain a Review 0 1 s 3 ii t ;iieoF"' ii nclicaps, by Pegasus; the pccba of EgYP's.,;iie, P 4( 0 Impo*.H. t •• 1 , Correspondence ho:,ween . re" yrice d , and the Jcckey Club; the Challenge diclined! woo hell' Pi e " 1 0 ' Bell's Lit - ' -,e, S:xpecce. The sale of s ;en.; ,t 27,u00. A sixpence erclosed to Mr. Clement, ail co. poSt t° 8 rand, will cnsure a copy by return of or the United Kingdom. --"--"-------------""a"--.'—" ---- i eß - :e f P ri • tOirprcio.tehaeve3sl,sll:sugl.t.,,i‘aigaVfie2l4d:DA:nDiti.olns.abellito th e I " r ' e ° JI(/ 1. ' Tqldrell. _iv On the Ist inst., in'Charles-kq Joshua 1. , ~ _boo uare, ~ ~s o i On the Ist inst., at Brixton. hill, aged 27, the youngest son of Mr. J. lialdren, 01 " i .. Wife ° court, Basingball-street. 6 0 7, T. Boorman, Esq. too , sg COI' On the ' Ist inst., at Sydney-street, BratuP /0 4'0 Duncan F to erguson, Esq., late House PhySiCian lege 110:'pital. _ ;„1 - .01 —.- 1-0/5101 London •P• ed . nut and Published by '' 0 ' No. 112, Strand , -063' 110/ . .::t„nd. in the Precinct of the Savoy. in vs - . Middlesex, Wednesday, February 6, Mrs. Boorrnan, the . _, i . i i r 6, 1850