The Sun. — London, England, 1850-04-27 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. SOUSE OF . LORDS, Ara 26. Their Lordships assembled at Five o'clock. The Earl of RODEN presented several petitions praying that Scriptural schools in Ireland might have a share in the national grant. The Earl of HARROWBY presented several petitions praying for it repeal of the Sale of Beer Act. The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from tbe Tower Hamlets in favour of the Extramural Inter ments Bill. He took that opportunity of returning his thanks to' the Government for having embodied the re commendations of the Sanitary Commissioners on extra mural interment into a Bill. He believed that the pass ing of some such Bill was absolutely necessary for the health of the metropolis. The Bill had been drawn up in a very masterly manner, and he hoped the Govern ment would firmly resist any attempt to alter the provi sions of that Bill. _ _ _ Earl TALBOT presented a petition from a parish in the island of Jamaica praying for a faithful observance of the treaties with Spain and Brazil for the suppression of the slave trade. Their Lordships then adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMONS, April 28. The SAAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. PETITIONS. Mr. THORNELY presented a petition from Wolver hampton in favour of international arbitration. Mr. WILSON PATTEN presented a petition from Chorley, in Lancashire, against the Highway* Bill; also a petition from Lancashire againat secular education. Mr. PLUMPTRE presented nineteen petitions from Kent and other places against Sunday labour in the Post office. Colonel LLOYD WATKINS presented a petition, signed by 200 of the principal inhabitants of the parish of Llywel, in the county of Brecknock, praying the House that for the future there should be no transmis sion of math nor delivery of letters in the United King dom during the 24 hours of the Lord's day. Lord RENDLESHAM presented a petition from a place in Suffolk in favour of an international system of penny postage. Mr. MILNER GIBSON presented a petition from Manchester praying for the removal of the taxes on knowleclke. The Earl of MARCH presented petitions from a place in Sussex in favour of the Ten Hours Factory Bill, and against Sunday labour in the Post-office. Lord GEORGE MANNERS presented a petition from a piece in Rutlandshire against the Copyhold En franchisements Bill. Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from a congrega tion of Dissenters in Northamptonshire praying lor abolition of church-rates. Lord ASHLEY presented a petition from a place in Lancashire in favour of tho Ten Hours Bill. Mr. W. J. FOX presented petitions from Oldham praying for the abolition of church-rates and in favour of the Education Bill. Sir J. DUCKWORTH presented a petition from Exeter, signed by 1,700 persons, praying for the cessa tion of Sunday labour in the Pat-office. Mr. G. THOMPSON . presented a petition from a Dissenting congregation in Bethnal-gest' praying for the abolition of church-rates; also a petition from ope rativei in Dewsbury in favour of the Ten flours Bill; and a petition from Glasgow praying for the abolition of capital punishments. Mr. FORBES presented a petition from Bute. pray ing that the Bill introduced into the Home by the Hon. Member for that county, far legalizing marriage with a deceased wife's sister, may not pass into a law. Mr. DIVET r presented a petition frsm Exeter com plaining Of the present mode of licensing public-houses in that town. Mr. COWAN presented a petition from Edinburgh, against the Public Health (Scotland) Bill. Lord R. GROSVENOR presented several petitions from factory operatives in York. Leeds, and other places, in (hewn. of the Ten Ilonrs' Bill; also petitions from. Fulham and Chiswick agaiat Sunday labour lii the Post offise ; h!so a petition from the Metropolitan Sanitary Association praying for a repeal of the window-tax; and a petition front' Spitelfields against the taxation clause in the Secular Education Bill. Sir GEORGE GREY pre eated a petition from the , borough of Morpeth, Northumberland, praying for the abolition of Sunday hiriuga in that town during harvest. Mr. STAFFORD presented a petition from Caxt)n, in Northamptonshire, against Sunday labour in the Post office. PARLIAMEVARY OATHS. Mr. PAGE WOOD gave notice that on Monday he should ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether it was his intention to introduce any Bill during this ses sion with reference to the oaths taken by Members of Parliament. AUSTRALIAN COLONIES BILL. Mr. ROEBUCK gave notice that on bringing up of the report of this Bill he should move to extend the priuciplos of the Australian constitution, so as to enable the colonies of British North America to establish a federative Assembly. _ ________ ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Ireland was no less a sum than 69,9861. Besides a great part of those loans were not yet due, and therefore no complaint could reasonably be made about the non-payment of that part of them. The loans, too, were made on a totally different prin ciple from any other. They were forced on Ireland in spite of the remonstrances of every man of sense in the country, and they had been spent with the greatest prodigality in the first instance. It had been stated that England had been taxed to sup port the Irish poor, a statement which had been cheered in that House ; why the English Exchequer was quite as much Irish as English since the framing of that Union which, it must be remembered, was an union not sought for by Ireland, but obtained by England at the expense of much bribery and corruption. Having united the two Exchequers, the English Legislature had no right to turn round and talk of an Irish loan from an English Exchequer. He thought there was no foundation for the aspersion of an Irish loan being thrown in the teeth of Irish Mem bers. There was only one other thing which he wished to mention, and that was that some persons had declared that some districts were in too far distressed a condition ever to repay the advances which were to be made, and he appealed to the House whether it would be deterred by a consideration like this, when they had just voted 1,000,000/. for the support of a scheme the good effects of which had never yet been manifest, from sanctioning this paltry loan to a country which it had always from the first treated with injustice. Mr. F. FRENCH supported the motion for going into Committee, and said that the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln did not, he thought, understand the precise nature of tisk Bill. The object of making the proposed advances was to repay the wasteful and extravagant ex penditure which had been caused by officers appointed by the Government themselves in the management of the affairs of the Irish Unions; and he maintained, upon the best authority, that if the contractors had chosen to proceed against the Government they would have ob tained verdicts to the amount of 270,0001. The Hon. Gentleman then read a list of unions, where a large in crease of debts had been occasioned under the adminis tration of the vice-guardians; amongst them were the unions of Liitewel and Galway, in the former of which the debts had been augmented from 5,4001. to 12,000/., and in the latter from 7,0001. to 12,0001. Mr. R. FOX defended the poor-law guardians and unions from the imputation of unwillingness to repay. With respect to the Bill before the House it had his cor dial assent, and instead of seeking to defeat it by adverse amendments it would be far better to forego all angry reminienences of the past, and address themselves, like men of basinecs, to the circumstances of the present and the future, There was one point to which attention could not be too carefully directed, viz., the manner in which the funds should be administered. He should not now enter into any details, as he should have other op portunities of referring to the management of the Board of Works and the operation of the poor-law. Mr. I'. SCROPE said that the Hon. Member for Ros • common (Mr. French) had thought fit to enter into a defence of the poor-law guardians; but there had been no inst trice of guardians being superseded by vice-guar dians, except where there had been great mismanage ment, neglect, and cruelty towards the poor. With respect to the distressed unions, the principle on which their poor should have received the extraneous relief that had become necessary was, the supply of reproduc tive employment to the able-bodied poor, so as to make those unions self-supporting within as short a time as possible. But instead of that a system of eleemosynary relief had been adopted, which was alike ruinous to the resources of the union and demoralising to the poor. In the two years ending September, 1849, there bad been expended in 11 unions in the counties Clare, Mayo, and Galway, a sum of 725,0001. in poor relief; and of that amount the unions themselves contributed only 250.3781., the remainder, neirly amounting to 500,0004 having to be furnished by the tax- payers of England and the con tributors to the rate-in-aid in Ireland. Again, in t`-r, Limerick union, in the half-year ending September, 1849, there had been 61,0001. expended in supporting 12,000 pauper?, of whom more than three-fourths, or 9,358 were able-bodied; and to show the system of mis management that was pursued in thet union—how little care was given to employing all this able-bodied labouring power in a reproductive manner upon the land, he might mention that on the day he visited the workhouse be found that all those able-bodied paupers had been sent to bed, though it was then only six o'clock on a fine summer .evening.--(Cries of "Divide, divide.") The employment he should recommend was such as would improve the land—(Divide, divide) — arterial drainage. —(Divide, divide,) The Honeurattle Gentleman, still persisting in his endeavours to obtain a hearing, notwithstanding the impatience of the House, was again and again met with the steady continuous cry " Divide, divide." At last, during a pause, he said he only wished to impress on the Home the necessity of looking for the future to a better mode of expendi ture. The Hon. Ceentiereaa then resumed his seat amidst cheers. Major BLACKALL could not agree to the amend ment. After a few words from Colonel DUNNIi, Mr. O'FLAHERTY said the Bill hid been received with great favour in the west of Ireland. He tbotult it would be advisable for Hon. Mensbers who did not represent those unions which were most distressed, not to exact as much as in the cases of really distressed unions. Mr. MONSELL observed, in reference to the Limerick union, that the only day on which the Honourable Gen thunan who had just sat down had visited the workhouse in that union was a Sunday—(Laughter)—and he thought the House would be able to see whether there was any ground for his strictures on the Limerick guar dians when they found him complaining that they had sent the paupers to beck, instead of employing them in the cultivation of the land, at six o'clock in the evening on a Sunday.—(Chrers and laughter.) Colonel DUNNE observed the impatience of the House, and would, if necessary, move that the House should adjourn,—(Cries of " Adjourn.") He only wished to say that the Government asked money on the present occasion, not on account of the Irish poor lay guardians, hut on account of the mismanagement of the Government's own officers, who had increased the debts of the unions to a very great extent. Mr. HAYTER moved that the House on its rising do adjourn until I'd on ay next. WOODS AND FORESTS. Lord DUNCAN said, as it appeared from what trans pirod last night in the lionsP, the sooner they had i% re sponsible Minister for the Board of Works the better, ho would ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Go vernment, whether it was his intention to proceed with the Woods and Forests Bill on Monday text, the day on which it stood on the orders of the armee? Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to sly he could not promise, whether the Bill would be brought on on that day. COLONIAL ASSURANCE COMPANY. Mr. ROEBUCK directed the attention of the Go vernment to 'a Bill now before the Hon for incorpo rating a C )lonial Assurance Company, which he hoped the GOvernment would look into with the view of seeing whether it would interfere with the provisions of the Australian Colonies Bill. OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITIES. Lord J. RUSSELL rose to explain a statement which he (Lord J. Russell) had made to the House respecting the lectures given by the professors of 'modern history at Oxford and Cambridge, but was very indis tinctly heard. He was understood to say that he was wrong in supposing that Sir James Stephen, the professor at Cambridge, was restricted to giving one lecture a week. It appeared, however, from his own statement, that lie could not give more than 25 lectures to the students, which on the average would be one a week for the academical year. Mr. GOULBURN observed that what he said the other evening in the House was that some professors gave three leetures a week, but that they were not com p elled to give more than one. KING'S-ROAD, CHELSEA. Sir PAKINGTON gave notice, that on going into Committee of Supply, he should plias question to the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General on the subject of the King's-road, Chelsea. DISTRESSED UNIONS ADVANCES AND RE PAYMENTS OF ADVANCES (IRELAND) BILL. On the question for going into Committee on the Bill, Col. SIB fiIORP rose to move tat the Bill be com mitted that day six months. If he thought tae grant would benefit Ireland he would not object to it, nor would he refase,to support any measure that was calculated to improve the condition of that part of the country; but the feat was, this grant was proposed for nothing more nor lees than to cover the delinquencies and the mis government of Ministers in the sister kingdom,—(A keels.) When he was at school ha was taught to beltsve that two and two made four—(A laugh)—and that two taken from four left two remaining—(A laugh) —but the returns which had been Lid upon the table on the subject of these advances to Ireland did not appear to go upon that rule.—(A laugh.) The amount of loans and grants made during the past ten years— the return did not re f er to what bad l. e en lent before_amounted to no less than 1,227,402/. 13s. 2d., the loans to 8.751,225/. I7s. . was Bc/., of which 322,1371. 1 ls. 4d. h a d b een repa i d, leaving 5,519,804/. 6 4 anawful sum— s till d ue , an d ye t i n th e face of this it proposed to advance an additional 300,0001. Now before this grant was sereal to the House and the public had a right what • chance there was of • ' to know had lent money it back. He himself, a g n e r an i g n some instances be never got it back egaire—(da cgla) He was now, however, not such a f oo l ; h e never lent money now without good security, while be took go od care i 2 to let the naan have no more who h a d neverpaid swab:l,—(A laugh.) Now th a t was precisely The back they ought to go upon here. The question w h was the money to be collected and from whol e ' War it to be collected. Mr. HERBERT said, when statements were made and assertions hazarded in that House so totally at variaace with the facts, he thought it the duty of 90018 Irish Um ber to take the first opportunity of making a few obser vations on Irish loans a n d finances. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had expressed a certain amount of imps., tience at Son. Members entering into the whole question of Ireland, when particular measures were brought be fore the House, And to a certain extent be agreed with him, but when unfounded statements were made by persons who were unacquainted with the social condition of that country. he though it right that they should be contradicted. It had been asserted loudly that an Irish loan was the same as an Irish grant. But what was the nature of an Irish loan? He hold in his band a return which had been moved for by the Hon. Me mber for Glasgow (M r . M acgregor ) , an d w hich showed in a very distinct and compreheasivo manner the financial post tion as regarded thiscountry. It appeared from that docu. went that from the year 1817, when the English and Irish Exchequers were consolidated to 1845, the total loans advanced to Ireland amounted to 11,326,59 61 .; a nd of that sum as much as 8,483 0001. had been rep aid. He would not di scuss the policy of those loans, but there could be no doubt that they would be of great advantage to this country. He left out the loans during the l as t three years of the a famine, because they st oo d on different principle, sod he should have a few remarks t o make a b ou t them by and by. He was quite read y adm it that many of these loans had been devoted to to s p ec u l a t ions not succeeded, but still he f e lt he should ultbe which had able to con vince the House of the injustice of the charw l x , t ,i h at an Irish loan was no better than an Irish grant. ,843 00 1, then out of the 11,320,000/. there was now only 2 and part of even that balance was not eft du e . un p aid, notwithstanding the unparalleled misfortune of country, she had actually repaidofAethde 3115d7710:81 du r i ng m adeoo/.; very , period of the famine. In 1846 she repaid 370 the in 1847, 514,0001.; and in 1848, total of 1,241,0001. repaid during the continirance of makin g famine. Sir John Burgoyne stated in his evidence that the Government had gained considerable sums of money by those loans to Ireland.—(H ear , h ear .) I t m i g h t b e said that was an Irish statement, bat it was true. That gentleman had conclusively proved that the net profit to the Government on those transactions with The House then divided, wlen there appeared— For the amendment ... ... 12 Against it ... 132 Majority... —l2O The amendment was therefore lost, and the House went into Committee. The preamble of the Bill was postponed. On clause 1, The CEI ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER the liabilities of Ireland• in. Dec., 1848 were 513.0001.; whereas on the 31st December last they were 392,0001 . The sum of 300,0001. advanced under the Bill would be applied to the discharge of these liabilities, which at tached to about thirty unions. The liabilities might be estimated at 270,0001., as regarded these unions; the re , mining 50,0001. would be applicable to the discharge of the liabilities of electoral districts. Mr. A. STAFFORD said it was undeniable that the expenses of these unions had been increased by the de lay in passing the Bill. The Bill was one to place the whole rateable property of Ireland in the hands of Sir Charles Trevelyan, inasmuch as the boards of guar. diens, in this instance, were mere cyphers, obliged to act under directions from the Treasury, and having no option. The clause was agreed to. • On clause 2, The CLIANbELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the whole sum due from Ireland under the Advances Act was 4,235,0001. To this the present sum of 300,0001. being added, would make in all 4,535,000/. due from Ireland. The clause was added to the Bill. On clause 3, Mr. A. STAFFORD said this clause placed the whole of the rateable property of Ireland at the mercy of the Treasury. Nothing, in fact, could increase or exagge rate the powers given under the Bill to the Commis sioners of her Majesty's Treasury. It was perfectly pos sible by its agency fur the Treasury to ruinany proprietor by apportioning the debt due on townlands and by ad justing the time for its repayment. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the amendment he proposed to introduce to this clause wa s to enable them to lay a rate on the electoral divisions. With regard to the powers conferred by the Bill, he did not see any other means of dealing with the variety of questions raised in its operation than through their adoption. Nothing short'of the permission of, absolute discretion to the Treasury would be efficacious. After a few words from Mr. CLEMENTS and Mr. MONSELL, Colonel DUNNE said he thought there should be no discretion given to the Commissioners of the Treasury, but that a scale should be settled by Parliament. Mr. HAMILTON thought there was no difficulty in fixing by law the amount of apportionment. Major BLACKALL was in favour of a graduated scale for apportionment and repayment, but he was given to understand that it was impossible with the max imum of 40 years settled by law. Ho thought a rate of 6d. in the pound on every townland in Ireland would be fair and equitable for the country, and profitable for the Treasury. Lord, NAAS said the Bill contained an arbitrary power as regarded the Treasury. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would have no objection to a un if orm rate f or a ll Ireland, hut he did not see that the preposition was practicable. Major BLACKALL was satisfied with the Right Lion. Gentleman's expression of opinion in favour of the principle. Mr. CLEMENTS said that the Clare and Limerick unions, under the Bill, would T have the full m ea s ure o f time meted ou t to the a w e o i u t l haved was w a e lesserll k eLe t ei i .m m u nl e e . er . itch other n o io th n e s r w u e a r i e on a s s m of ue l h rel d tte is d .. Limerick a ° hi n s d w c a la s r n e. ot quite equitable, tre j a s r e . d H as A th m o l s L e N proposed, with each union was the view of appor tioning rateably Tot a O n and accurately the s um to pay, to make an additi on to the clause. - Viscount BERNARD sa id the power of determiningmigt the proper proportion each u n i on was to p n would the t most advantage be traasferred t o the joyorb svith missioners. The benefit of such an arran crneoei - e l Poor -law Com missioners. be to let unions, as well as individuals, kw amount of their liability, and when it wo u ld have exact o xa b e e t discharged. Colonel DUNNE did not think the words of the clause were as clear as they might be. Lord NAAS wished some words inserted to limit the power of the Commissioners. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said all parties were agreed as to what was intended by the clause. He had no objection, however, to insert any words that would make the meaning more clear. Mr. HAMILTON having furnished his explanatory addition, it was inserted in the clause. Mr. CLEMENTS proposed that certain words he omitted, and to insert the words " forty years." The gallery was cleared fur a division. On our re-admission no amendment was still under delatte. Lord J. RUSSELL said the Bill was intended as a relief to Ireland, and ha did not think it was fair on the pert of some Iron. Members to meet it is Luch a sprit as had been evinced, Mr. STAFFOUD thought the Noble Lord was hardly justifital in his reproach, considering the division which had just taken place. Mr. SCULLY thought the time ought to be extended in proportion to the necessities of the union. Mr. ROCHE hoped the Government would reconsider the proposition of the s Hon. Member for Leitrim. It was originally understood that the time fixed for re payment was to be firty years, and the moral effect of the measure would be greatly diminished whoa it was seen that the matter was left in the discretion of the Treasury. He bad the greatest confidence in the in tentions of the present Government, but it would be scarcely prudent to reckon on their holding office for that period. The Committee divided, when there appeared— For the amendment 31 Majority ..• ••• ••• , ..• —54 Clause 3 was then agreed to, as were elmasei 4,5, and 6. On clause 7, Mr. MONSELL wished to know how soon the work houses would be commenced at the want of them would very much impair the good effect arising from dividing the unions? Mr. STAFFORD, in reference to the division of unions, begged to remind the Government of the repested end strong remonstrances which had coma from Limerick against the alteration of the territorial distribution; and hoped they would leave that union with its ancient limits. Mr. HERBERT expressed a similar hope with refer ence to the union of Kerry. Mr. FRENCH thought the alteration of territorial divisions most advantageous to Ireland; but he wished to point out one hard ,hip Which had been inflicted on some townlsnds, which had been transferred from one electoral division to another. The result of which was, that they had to pay the assess rents of both. He knew an instance in which a townland bad been subjected to a rate cf 33. struck just before the chang , ., and it was also liable to a rate of 4s. struck just atter its incorporation with the new electoral division. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed that nothing was more essential than to erect work houses in those unions. All he could say was that last year the Government provided as much money as they were told by the Poor-law Coramisiioners would be re quired till the 31st March. He was not able to. give more &titled information, but would make inquiries into the matter. With reference to tin circumstance mentioned by the lion. Member who had just spoken, it might be a hardship, but it did not follow that it was an injustice; for the rate made by the district J . : corn which the townland in question was serwated was no doubt made to defray past.exr,enditure, of which the towniand had had the benefit. The clause was then agreed to. The Bill passed through Committee, and was ordere3 to be reported. KING'S-ROAD, EcITON-SQUARE. On the motion for going into CommiTtee of Supply, Sir J. PAKINGTON said he was enabled, by the kindness of the Hon. Member for Glasgow, who had waived his right t> precedence, to put the question to the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General of which he had given him notice, with regard to the differences that had arisen between the trustees of the Grosvenor-place district and the Marquis of Westminster, as to the repair f f the highway known by the nano of the King's-road. It was well known by many that the state of that road had become an intolerable nuisance to those who resided in that part of Lyndon.--(lfear, bear.) He did not come forward as one of the trucces. He put the ques tion as a ratepayer, and be believed he spoke the senti ments of all his fallow-ratpayer3 when he said that he considered himself directly tggrieved in his property by the Marquis cf Westminster. He was glad to see the Noble Earl the Member for Chester in his place. He was supported in his view by high legal authorities. The origin of this question - Mr. ANSTEY rose to order. In acquiescing, to gether with the Hon. Member for Glasgow, in giving precedence to the Hon. Baronet, he understood his in tention to be to confine himself strictly to the question which he was desirous to put. The Hon. Baronet was now, however, going into a long statement, which would give the Noble Eart to whom ho had alluded, and others, the right to reply, and the result would be a debate which would probably shut out the lion. Member for Glasgow, and would most certainly exclude him (Mr. Anstey).—(A. laugh.) The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member would wit be excluded. Mr. ANSTEY—There will be no time.—(Langhter.) The SPEAKER—The Hon. Baronet has a right to speak on the question that I leave the chair. Sir J. PAKINGTON continued—The origin of this dispute was an agreement entered into in 1820 between the Marquis of Westminster and the Crown, by which an exchange was made of the then existing King's-road for that largo thoroughfare, now known by the same name, which passed through Eaton-square. All knew the great advantages which the Marquis of Westminster bad derived from that change, for the north aide of Eaton-square, one of the handsomest rows of private mansions in this or any other metropolis, was built upon the site of the old King's-road.— (Hear.) The condition f the exchange was an undertaking by the Marquis of Westminster for himself and his heirs to complete this line of road, and maintain it for ever thereafter fir the use of the King and his heirs and successors, and for the use of the said Marquis his heirs and successors and all other his Majesty's subjects, reserving to his Majesty the tight to place a bar to preserve the privacy of the road, but to keep the road in repair for ever, for the itso of all his Majesty's subjects. Subsequently, at the instance of the Marquis of Westminster, an Act of Parliament was passed transferring the manage ment of the roads of the district to certain trustees. He now came to a part of the transaction to which ho knew considerable importance was attached by some. In 1830 the Crown abandoned this as a private road, and the trustees of the Grosvenor-place district, in perfect ignorance of any covenant between the Marquis and the Crown, commenced reparing the road, and continued to do so for about three years. At the end of that time the existence of the covenant was discovered, and a negotiation took place with Lord Westminster, the result of which was that the Marquis, after having investigated the circumstances of the case, made an arrangement with the trustees, by which he undertook to pay 150/. a year for the repair of the road, which he continued to pay till his death in 1844. After his death the trustees continued to repair the road, pre suming, of course, that they were to receive the 1501. annually. After the lapse of soma time the present Marquis refused to continue the payment, and in con sequence of his refusal the trustees thought it necessary to take a legal opinion, and the case was submitted to eminent counsel, Mr. Watson and Mr. Hayes, and their opinion was that the Marquis of West minster was liable to repair the road by virtue of his covenant, and that his liability _was not affected by local Acts, nor by what took place in 1830. After this opinion the trustees would not hare been justified in expending the money of- the ratepayers without an attempt to enforce the obligation created by the deed of 1820, and they thought that the leave of the Crown would be granted to bring an action. After this opinion the trustees proceeded to lay the same case be fore two other most eminent counsel, both of whom he rejoiced to see in the House. The counsel were the Hon. Attorney and Solicitor-General, and he begged to recall the attention of the Hon. and Learned Attorney- General to his own opinion. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—I am aware of it. Sir J. PAKINGTON—The Hon. and Learned Attor ney-General said, prima facie, the parish was bound to repair the road, but the Marquis was also liable to the Crown upen his covenant to repair. That the covenant could only be enforced by the Commission of Woods and Forests, and tbst the trustees ought to apply to the Commissioners of Woods and Forests; but their an swer was that they had nothing to do with the matter; that the bargain was between the Marquis of West minster and the Crown, and that permission to sue must he granted by the Attorney-General, and not by them. The trustees again applied to the Attorney-Ge neral; bit in answer the Right Hon. and Learned Gen tleman stated that he had considered the circumstances stated in the memorial; that he had declined to allow his name to be used; and that the covenant was evidently intended to relieve the Crown from the liability arising from the alteration of the road, and not for the benefit of the public at .large. He begged the attention of the House to the expression that the covenant was not in tended for the benefit of the public at large, because be had just referred t o the opinion of the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman that the Marquis 'of Westminster was bound to repair the road for the use of her Majesty's subjects. The trustees naturally felt surprised at this opinion of the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman in October, when in the June previous he had given it as his opinion that the Marquis of Westminster was bound to repair. Id consequence of this opinion the trustees held a meeting and passed resolutions to the effect that the reasons given by the Attorney-General were not well founded, and were not consistent with the joint opinion given by himself and the Solicitor-General. They determined to renew the application to the Attorney- General for permission to sue, and applied to him ac cordingly. The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in answer, stated that they were mistaken in supposing that there was any inconsistency between the opinion of himself and the Solicitor-General, that the Marquis of Westminster was liable to repair, and his own refusal to enforce the covenant. The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman stated that between the question whether there was a legal liability and the propriety of enforcing it there was a marked distinction. He thought there was that in this assertion which clearly called for a public explanation from the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman. In his opinion, ii was not fur the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman to take on himself the question as to the propriety of enforcing the covenant. The ratepayers felt that the Marquis of Westminster bad derived great pecuniary advantages from the change. They had the authority of the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman himself that the Marquis of West minster was liable in law to repair the road; and surely they were entitled to some voice as to the pro. prioty of enforcing that liability. In stating his reasons for his opinion, the Right Honourable and Learned Gentleman said that the trustees of the Grosvenor dis trict had obtained an Act of Parliament on the subject. The Act in question had not been obtained by the trus tee:, but by the Marquis of Westminster himself for the benefit of his own estate. The opinion of the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman was, therefore, erroneous in matter of fact. Too Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in the conclusion of his answer, again re fused permission to the ratepayers to decide the merits of the case in a court of law. In consequence of these repeated refusals of the Right Ron. and Learned Gen- LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 27 5 1850. tleman the trustees took the opinion of a gentleman ' eminent in his profession, Mr. Rolla Queen's counsel. Mr. Rolt, in his opinion, stated that there was no appeal to any legal tribunal from the decision of the Attorney- General refusing the use of his name to sue the Marquis of Westminster. Mr. Rolt proceeded to say, that though the legal remedy was doubtful, the advisers of the Crown would do an act of injustice to the ratepayers either by attempting to release the covenant or by refusing to sue on it. He had no hesitation in subscribing to that opinion. In conclusion, Mr. Rolt advised the trustees to lay the whole matter again before the Attorney- General, and stated, that if the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman still declined to permit the suit, the only course for the trustees to take would be to appeal to the Government or the Legislature for assistance. A deputation proposed to wait on the Noble Lord, the Prime Minister, on the subject; but he declined to re ceive them, as he considered a point of law to be at issue. As a rate-payer, he now acted on the second suggestion of Mr. Rolt, and made his appeal to the Le gislature. He would more especially make his appall to the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in the earnest hope that ho would re•consider his decision, and not persevere in refusing those parties to go into a court of law. He hal been informNi that the Marquis of Westminster himself was most anxious that this matter should be deaidel by a court of lair. He did not wish to detain the House, but there were one or two passages. —(Cries of " Question," and " Order")— Mr. ANSTEY rose to order—He - wished to know wbother the argument raised by the Hon. Member — which had lasted now for half an hour—came within the definition of a statement preliminary to putting a question? The SPEAKER said that, on the question that the Speaker leave the chair, it was competent for any Mem ber to bring forward a question of grievance. The quei. tion before the Howe was, that he should now leave the chair. The Hon. Baronet was speaking to that question, 'and it would be improper in him to interfere. ANSTEY wished to know whether, iaving given notice of an amendment on the question that the Speaker leave the chair previous to Committee of Supply, ho was not entitled to bring on his amendment, inasmuch as the Hon. Member for Glasgow, whose notice of amendment stood before his, had given way . The SPEAKER said if the lion. Baronet had given notice that he would conclude with a motion, the Hoe. Member would have been entitled to precedence, lent he had merely intimated his intention to put a question. Sir J. PARINGTON said he hoped it would be some consolation to the lion. Member fir Youghal to know that he was nearly dune. He aas about to say, that in consequence of the opinion of Mr. Rolt a conference was held with the Right Hun. and Learned Gentleman the Attorney-General on the subject, at which the Right lion. and Learned Gentleman admitted that on his fiat rested the whole responsibility, and that he had to look to all the circumstances of the case.—(Cries of " Ques tion.") lie complained that the Right Hoe. and lammed Gentleman had not looked to all the circumstances of the case.—(Renewed cries of "Question.") He was sorry to detain the House at such length.—(Hear.) He did not, however, think that the House had any right to complain of his bringing forward a question involving the rights of a very large 'portion of the inhabitants of the metropolis. In the abstract of the proceedings which he held in his hand there was an expression used in reference to the conduct of the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, which he would not repeat—which he re gretted had been used, and to which he would not subscribe. He should appeal to the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, as a constitutional statesman, and ask him whether it was right that any authority in this country should interfere to debar any portion of her Majesty's athjects from ap pealing to a court of law to decide the merits of any question of grievance they might have.—(Hr ae, hear.) All that the ratepayers in this case naked was permission to go to a court of law. The Attorney. General, avail ing himselt of a technicality, said they should not be alloyed to do so. elle was at a loss to know whet answer the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman could give.—(Cries of "Question,") He was not disposed to detain the House longer than he could help, but if the Hon. Member for Youghal resorted to those uncourteous interruptions he should certainly go on to a much greater length.—(Laud cries cf "Oh.") The indict ment preferred against the trustees was of an extraor dinary nature, and would not, it was believed, raise the question at issue. —(Cries of Question" renewed.) He should conclude by asking the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman to give some explanation of the grounds upon which he felt himself justified in debarring the ratepayers from trying the merits of the question in a court of law, and to state whether he intended to perse vere in refusing them permission to rue. The ATTORNEY GENERAL felt it would be some what inconvenient for him to enter into any general statement of the grounds of his decision, particularly as an indictment was now pending against the trustees f rt. non repair of the road. He should, however, partly answer the question of the Right Hon. Baronet. He did not complain that the Hon. Baronet had not put on the paper of to-day the question he intended to put. The Hon. Baronet had told him of his intention to put the question; but not having put it on the votes, probably some Member, who might have wisbel to make a state. mont on the subject, had been prevented doing so. Of that, however, he made no complaint. Sir J. PAVING TON did not think the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman wished to misrepresent what he had dour. He had put a question on the paper be fore the holidays, and he had now put the same question of which he had given notice. Last night he gave public notice that he intended to put the question today on the order for Committee of supply, and he had also last night informed the Right Hon. and Learned Gen tleman of his intention. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he made no complaint of the course taken by the Hon. Baronet in regard t) his notice. He perceived that on the Mon day after the holidays the Hon. Baronet gave not'ee that he would ask him whether he intended to persevere in his refusal to allow the suit in question; and last night the Hon. Baronet told him that he would put the question on the order for going into Committee of Sup ply. Of that course he did nut complain. but he k.t Aed that ho thought some Hon. Members, from the notice not being on the votes of the day, might be in ignorance that the question was to be brought forward. He was glad to find that the Hon. Baronet did not subscribe to the expression which had been made use of in the pro ceedings with reference to himself. Any one who knew the nature of his connexion with the city of Chester knew that be was not assailable on that point, and those who had made use of the expression, and those who be lieved it, were utterly beneath his contempt. He quite agreed with the Hon. Baronet that the rate payers had a great grievance to complain of. He himself was a ratepayer, and lived but a few doors from the Hon. Baronet. The grievance of which they had to complain were four-fold—(Laughter.) The coal was not watered—it was not lighted; and, therefore, was made the receptacle of every improper thing—(A laugh)—it was not cleansed, and was not kept in repair. The commissioners were bound to water, light, and cleanse the road; and he could not under s t an d why these three things should not be done merely because it was not kept in repair by the Marquis of Wesminster. The Marquis of Westminster said that the road having been thrown open to the public it should be repaired in the same manner in which all other similar highways were repaired. With respect to the duty of the Attorney • General, he would say that noconsiderations would keep him from performing the official task which would be imposed on him; but having consulted the highest legal authorities, atter having been ia communication with the Marquis of We3tinnster, it appeared the most sound opinions were, that no legal proceedings should be taken. Alr. GRANVILLE BERKELEY asked the lion. and Laarne.l Gentleman what the trustees were to do? The ATTORNEY GENERAL ;aid, that, having been unfortunate in giving a professional opinion, he would ❑et hazard an unprofessional one. Lord CASTLEREAGH hoped that his lion. Friend below him would take the sense of the House on the question on some future occasion by moving an Address to the Crown. Mr. MARTIN expressed his concurrence with the view taken of the subject by the Attorney-Genera l .l Lord R. GROSVENOR referred to - several legal opi nions to show that the Marquis of Westminster was not supposed liable to the repair of the road referred to. Lord C. HAMILTON thought as there was such a di versity of opinion amongst the highest legal authorities, that that was a reason why the ratepayers ought to be allowed the privilege which all British subjects enjoyed, of an appeal to a court of law. The discussion then dropped. STAMPS ON SHIPPING PAPERS. Mr. MACGREGOR then moved, pursuant to notice, that in consideration of the recent changes in the navi gation-laws, and consistently with the state of the re venue, it was expedient the stamps on marine emir nieces, bills of lading, charter parties, and other shipping documents should be abolished. Lord J. MANNERS seconded the motion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he should give the same answer in the negative to that pro position which he had given to a similar one a snort time since. After the remissions which had boa already given notice of, he could not undertake to make any fur ther reduction in duties than what he had already spe cified. With respect to the policy of repealing the tax he had only to observe, that be thought it his duty to abstain from expressing any opinion on the subject upon that occasion, because ho felt that he ought to reserve for himself an unfettered discretion as to the financial policy which he should hereafter pursue. Lord J. MANNERS said that the Right Hon. Gen tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer bad not alleged one single argument in favour of the continuance of that most objectionable tax. It was a tax which was ob jectionable at all times, but which was peculiarly se at the present time, when the shipping interest were de prived of the protection they had formerly enjoyed under the navigation-lawe. The continuance of the tax was at present not only objectionable but most unjust; and he hoped the Hon. Gentleman opposite would press his motion to a division. Mr. Alderman THO‘IPSON said that no such duties as these were levied in the United States, at Ilarnburgh, or at the greater portion of the principal ports of the Continents and the result was, to his knowledge, that the shipowners of this country effected marine insurances there to a very large extent. The stamps on charter parties were or very trifling amount, and were therefore hardly deserving of any consideration; but the stamps on insurances were felt as a very hesay tax, and mili tated very seriously against the business of underwriters. Mr. HUME said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had appealed on that, as on firmer oceeeions, to the set tkreent he had made on the subject of texatiou for the present year; but, in his (sir. flume's) opinion, the Right Hon. Jent:emon would have done much het . .er if h© had considered the pledges which he had given, lid which he had not redeemed, at the period of tun passing of the repeal of the navigation-haws. P.Tviously to the adoption of that measure he had &Aced her Maksty's Ministers whether they would be prepared to relieve the shipping interest from all those burdens which could prevent them from competing on equal terms with foreigners; and to that question he had received an answer in the affirmative. In his opinion the continu ance of those duties would be an act of injustice to which the House ought not to give its sanction. Lord J. RUSSELL denied that her Majesty's Ministers had given any pledge, at the time of the passing of the measure for the repeal of the naviga don-laws, that they would abolish those duties. Neither his Right Honourable Friend the Chancellor, nor his Right Honourable Friend the President of the Board of Trade hadgiven any such assurance. The Hon. Gentle man the Member fJr Montrose was, therefore, mistaken upon that point; and he should further observe that he should bare thought the Hon. Gentleman would have wished to see the navigation-laws repealed without any condition. The qtrstion then at issue was not whether the tax in qu?stion was in itself desirable. He did not mean to contend that it was so; but he thought that they ought to continu3 it as a portion of that financial arrangement by which the credit of the country was to 'be maintained. Mr. DUNCAN said that he had vote!! for a repeal of the navigation-laws on condition that after that repeal all unnecessary restrictions on the shipping interest, such as the duties then under their consideration, should be removed. Mr. HENLEY said he only regretted that Hon. Gentlemen opposite had not held their votes on the navigation-laws until they should hive found that the ustrictions on th:, 51:4piog interest of which they dis approved hid been repealed.—(Hear, hear.) In his opinion they ought not t') have thrown their constituents (!verboard, , as they had done. He agreed with the Noble Lord below him (Lord J. Manners) that the Government hal made out no ease a continuance of that tax. The House then divid?d, when there appeared— For Mr. Ma:.:Gregor's motion ... 89 Ag tinst it ... ... 156 1111 j - why against the m ,, tion AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. On the crvatian bang again put that the Speaker should leave the chair, Mr. DISRAELI rose and said that before the House consented to vote any more money, it ought to he in pos session of the financial statement of the Government f the year. At present the House was without that in -I)rmstion. It was true that nearly two months ago Ministers favoured the House with a general view of the finances of the country, and of what they intended to do as regarded the remission of taxation. It had al ways be held to be a twitter cf great importance that the financial statement of the year should be made as early in the session as possible, in order that, before voting the supplies, Members might be able to form an opinion as to whether their constituents could bear the burden of the taxes necessary for raising the sup plies. It was therefore essential that the House should be made aequainted with the exact financial position of the Government—shoo hl know what taxes would pro bably be repealed, before they could firm an opinion as to the possibility of meeting the exigency of the occasion. A Government always looked upon it as a matter of great self-gratulation and just pride to be able to make a financial statement at an early period of the session. To do the Government justice, it must be admitted that they had taken an early opportunity of making their financial statement to the House this session; hut, unfor tunately, the budget, which was opened nearly two months ago, was not yet finishes!.—(blear, and laughter ) It was not impossible that the House might find i:self in the same position as in that remarkable year 1848, when the Government began their financial statement on the 17th of February, and did rot bring it to a close until the 25th August.—(Cheers and laughter.) There were indications that the Government was about to pur sue a similar career this session. Iu 1848 Ministers got entangled in the course of their financial statement with the sugar duties. They proceeded with a new Sugar Bill, which was not succeslul. They produced a simi lar one, which met a :similar unhappy fate. A third was produced. All these Bills were accompanied with a schedule, such as those criticised so successfully by the House, that Ministers had found themselves hitherto in the same position as in 1848. Nearly two months had elapsed, and though the Goverment com menced the session with the exposition of their views with respect to the finance of the country —views, of course, matured, well-digested, and the consequence of many counsels—it was now the 26th of April, and no Member had a clear idea of what were the objects and what would be the effect of the policy of the Government as to finance.--(Hear, hear.) It was a matter of great importance, especially af.e: the late division, that the Government should fairly tell the House whether they intend to proceed, he did not say with their messurse respecting stamps, for that was given up entirely, but whether they intended to introduce A new measure. All that bad haepened hitherto was the refusal of an excise duty. No one could pretend that that that was the budget of the Government. All that recommended it was, that it repealed an excise duty and not a customs duty—recognizing a salutary principle. There w as a certain indulgence which was always to be exhibited towards the finance of a Whig Ministry.—(A laugh.) The Government could not be expec ed to excel in every branch. The foreign policy of the Government, by its peremptory decrees, maintained the dignity of the country, and by numerous blockades vindi cated the supremacy of the seas.— (Hear, beer.) The Colonial-office by its ingenuity in manufacturing consti tutions, upheld the well-earned reputation of this coun try for being foremost in promoting liberal institutions. And the Government had always in their pigeon-holes some scheme or other which would inevitably render Ireland rich and Englandcontent. These were circum stances which compensated for an occasional deficit, and sometimes for a propositioa to double the income-tax. The finance of the Government was a subject which ought always to be treated with indulgence. , But there was a limit even to Parliamentary patience; and, as two months had elapsed since the exposition of the Govern ment, and as there was no prospect of their ideas being fulfilled, it would- be indiscreet in the House to vote the public money without giving them an opportunity of telling clearly what were their intentions.—(Hear.) On his side of the House they were particularly interested. He assumed (it was not a monstrous assumption) that no more would be heard of the Stamp Act, because the case of that Act was a much more aggravated case of Minis terial incompetence than that of the sugar duties; and if three failures in the Sugar Bills brought an end of the budget on the 25th of August, it followed that four failures in the Stamp Act already amounted almost to a certainty that the original scheme of the Government, or any one similar to it, could no longer be contemplated as a political probability,—(Hear, hear.) What was the principle of the budget? More embarrassed with a surplus than ever they hal been with a deficiency— (Hear, hear) —her Majesty's Ministers resolved to re csenise the claims of a great interest which was suffering and which, from a peculiar combination of circumstances, was universally recognised as this only interest suffering. —(hear, hear.) Relief to the agricultural interest was a voluntary offer on the part of her Majesty's Ministers. A certain sum was allotted—a particular amount appro priated to be given immediately and distinctly to the re lief of that interest.. They came forward to remind him of his promise with no ill grate, because in the interval they had made more than one attempt to relieve interests which to tkeir astonishment they found were also suffering—(Hear, hear)--without reference to their own prior cleans, and perfectly ready to relin qaish those claims in favour of their suffering fellow subjects--(Heir, hear.) Those attempt: had not succeeded; one, within the last five minutes, had failed, and now, when Ministers asked theca to form thmselras into Committee of Supply and vote public money, he wanted some distinct explanation of the inten tions of Government and c-f the means in order to secure that relief for the suffering interest of agriculture which had been so long and so voluntarily promised.—(Hear.) Had the circumstances which prompted Ministers to come forward at the end of February and announce that a considerable portion of their surplus was ready, as it ought to be, for the relief of that interest, ceased to ope rate? Had the circumstances which had occurred since in regard to that interest rendered their exigencies less severe, or were they of a nature which could justify Mi nisteri in changing their opinion on the distress of the agricultural interest?—(Hear, hear.) There was an opinion prevalent on the Treasury bench—it had often been intimated—that after Easter they would meat with more cheerful countenances, and that the passing cloud which lowerel over the broad fields of England would have vanished. Was it so? There were plenty of wit hessea in that House who could give testimony. They were told on high authority—that of members of the Go vernment in another place—that the unprecedented de pression of agriculture arose from exceptional causes— (Hear, hear)—but in what respect was it to be under stood that low prices were exceptional ? He thought it was to obtain low prices that they, changed their legis lation.—(Hear, hear.) He could not agree that the 'circumstances were exceptional. It was not for the credit of the present or of the late Government to believe that these circumstances were exceptional. If wheat were selling at 89e. a quarter, he could not understand the logic which would make a free trader say the circum stances were exceptional; but when wheat was selling at 355. the quarter, instead of denouncing the circum stances as exceptional, those who had supported free trade ought to say tho effect was most legitimate.— (Hear, hear.) By unhappy acts, of which the House were aware—by logical deduction from the new philosophy— he must regard this effect as one of a permanent cha racter; and, if it were so, it was of still more import ance that Ministers should state what they intended to do for the relief of the airleultural interest. Assum ing their legislation on stamps to be deficient, he should ask, if relief to that interest were neces sary two months ago, whether it was not surely still more urgent how ? and on an occasion like the present, when they were asked as a matter of course to go into Committee of Supply, and vote away taxes wrung from a suffering community, the most unhappy of whom those on his side of the House represented—distress acknow ledged by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, who were always boasting of their own prosperity—(Hear, hear)—he thought it his duty to say fleet the time had gone by when, as a matter of course, the Government could have a Committee of Supply.—(flee.r, hear.) While their financial statement was imperfect—he would not say dis gracefully imperfect, because a harsh phrase would not mend the case of the agriculturists—and when a part of the scheme was relief from taxation for suffering portions of the community, he invited the Government, before they asked the House to vote away money, to come forward and declare distinctly whether they intended another attempt to complete the budget according to their original scheme, and what they meant to do fir the relief of the agricultural classes.—( Loud cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL thought it was hardly worth while—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—to have delayed the House from proceeding to the practical business of the 'evening either for the sake of the information which the Hon. Gentleman had conveyed to the House—(A laugh)—or for the sake of making those inquiries he had made. In the first place, the Hon. Gentleman in. formed the House that when they went into Committee of Supply they went, in all probability. for the purpose of voting public money, and, as the First Lord of the Admiralty had given notice of his intention to proceed with the navy estimates, that information was hardly required. In the next place, the Honourable Gentle man mentioned that the usual course was for Ministers very early to bring forward the budget, state what taxes they would remit, and afterwards proceed with supply. That was not the usual course; very far from it. In times of peace it was not a very expedient course; in times of war it would be absurd and impracticable. The Honourable Gentleman first had given information which was superfluous, and known to all the world. Next he had given information totally incorrect. He then wont on to make certain comments on our proceedings with respect to the finances fir the year. What the Chan cellor of the Exchequer stated early in the session was sufficiently plain. tic ateted, that having his estimate of the receipts and exatuditure of the year, there ap peared a surplus of 1,500,000/—(. 4 Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp, and laughter.) He proposed that a portion of that surplus should be applied to the relief of public burdens, and another portion to the diminution of the debt incurred cf late years. Nothing could be more plain than the policy which he-proposed to pursue. It was a policy which, on the 15th of March, the Go vernment stated they were pursuing, and one of the duties they proposed to remit, viz., a duty of Excise which offered considerable hindrance to the improvement of dwellings, had already been re mitted.—(Hear, hear.) Such being the general po licy of Ministers, he certainly would not accept the invitation to go into details respecting their financial measures, or to state now what course they proposed as to any particular matter. But, as the Hoa. Gentleman had invited them to this general consideration, and had called attention to the policy of Ministers, he (Lord J. Russell) could not help in tarn calliug the attention of the House to the policy pursued by the lion. Mentter for Buckiughamshire, because it was a policy which was nut a little remarkable, and which appeared to be not a little wavering and inconsistent. The Mu. Grntleinau, as the public Isere informed by the journals of the day . , propounded before the commencement of the session a great plan of finance of his own—(Hear, hear)—which, whether it were advisable to adopt or not, had one very strong feature in it, and a feature which he thought was very honourable to the Honourable Gentleman, namely, that it was a proposition to maintain the credit of the coutnry very hi g h; to have a very considerable surplus over expenditure for the purpose of a sinhiug fond, for keeping the funds high, and enabling all per sons who bad need of borrowing to do so at a very low rate indeed. The Honourable Gentleman's plan for the purpose might not have agreed with that of those who had taought , lunch on fiennec, but at least it had this very creditable feature in it—that it was founded on the basis that the revenue was far to exceed the expenditure of the country.—(Cheers, and a laugh.) Thea, on the first night of the session the. House was told that the great question was protection ; that the restoration of protection to agriculture was the main object to be at tained, but that that was not the object of that particu lar night—the amendment on the Address did not exactly contain that proposition. But no sooner was the amendment to the Address negatived, th an they were told by the Honourable Gentleman that it wee quite clear the majority of the . House was against pro tection; that there was no need of talking of it again, or of making any motion to restore it.—(Herr.) That was entirely inconsistent with, what they had been told on the first night of the session; but, further than that, the Hon. Gentleman having in his position turned Chancellor ef the Exchequer during the autumn, chose to propound a great plan by which the revenue was to be itetrees. d and kept very high above the expenditure; and now, for the list mouth, they Lai seen that when ever anybody brought forward a motion—(Hear, hear) —whether it were paper, whether it were marine in surances, or what not, however little it might elf ct the agricultural interest, from whomever it might come, whether from his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Manchester (Mr. M. Gibson), or any person who enter. Weed those strong opinions on free trade, the lion. Gentleman and his friends had been only eager to diminish the revenue of the country below the expenditure. Why, the Honourable Gentleman talked of the Government plan of finance. They were not ashamed of the prtn ciple of their plan, which combined some relief to the country with a steady maintaining of surplus over ex penditure. Bat a course of policy founded on the prin ciple of voting with any person who had an objection to a particular tax, and who, hiving audio(' it, thought it to be more objectionable than any other, and without considering the general state of our finances to vote for anything that would impair the credit of the country, did seem to him, for a great party, he must say a most singular and extraordinary course—(Cheers)—and not either very wise or - very much calculatsd to raise them generally in the opinion of the public.—(Renewed cheering) And that too, as he had said, without much regard as to what the tax might ba or the purpose of the mover. Tne mover, perhaps, might he one who said—" If I take away from you this tax, I mean, at the same time, to diminish your expense:, be cause I intend to reduce your army or navy by 20.000 men, and thus to dress the balance and make your re ceipts still exceed your expenditure." But the Hon. Gentleman, and those oho had voted with him, had no excuse of that kind. It was contrary to their views to make these great reductions in the expenditure, and therefore they had exposed themselves to the chance of being responsible for making a great inroad on our fi nances, and leaving them in that state in which the ceedit of the country could not but be impaired both in our own view and the view of all foreign countries.—(Chters.) Well, some persona said that the notion was that if that were done, then, the reroute of the country not sufficing for the expenditure, the House of Commons would find itself obliged to re-impose those taxes on pro tection—(Loud cheers from the Opposition, and counter cheers)—those taxes on the admission of corn, on the admission of provisions, on the admission of those various article of general consumption which it had been the policy of different Governments noel different Houses of Commons of late years to re duce; and, by the cheer which ho had heard—(Renewed cheers, which drowned the end of the sentence.) Well, really it seemed, he must say, a most wild-goose chase to imagiee that because a certain number of gentlemen bad voted with them for the reduction of the tax on windows or paper, that they would thereby find them selves in a majority in favour of the restoration of pro tection, and that a majority would be found to restore that which went to enhance the price of food in this country.—(Deprecatory " No, nor from the Protection ists, and cheers from other quarters.) Ho must say that a more visionary expectation never appeared to have entered the mind of man.—(Renewed cheers.) Well, if that were their great plan of finance—if the plan they had openly revealed was that they would vote for the dimi nation and repeal of any tax with the hope that, taxes once reduced, they might get a duty on the import of all articles of consumption, and more especially corn, he must say that a worse plan of finance, a plan based on more shallow views, a plan which tended more to destroy the credit of the country in the first place, and to disturb the peace of the country iu the second place, never had been conceived by a party which had number aed wealth and station in that House.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman had invited him to this discussion of his plan of finance by the observations he had made upon the plan of the Government. The Her. Gentleman, he was sorry to see, had so utterly d -parted from that honourable notion which he had entertained before Parliament mat, that whatever they did they must keep up the credit of the country and must have a large surplus over expenditure. He thought, without insisting on his own particular view, that if the Hon. Gentleman had remained firm to that principle, however he and those who scent with him would have maintained a high reputation in the country, it would have been said, at Last, that their policy was honourable, and that it was a policy which had been followed in the best times of the history of this country. The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to some thing that was supposed to have passed elsewhere. Well, he (Lord J. Russell) had seen the reports of what paesed 41 elsewhere," and he saw that it was said that the peo ple had begun to ask not only what revision of salaries and reduction of offices there should be, but whe ther it were possible any longer to pay the dividends of the national debt. Ho doubted whether such questions were really and seriously asked by any portion of the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.) He did not think it wise, at all events, that such notions should be tot afloat, especially in high places.—(Cheers.) lie be lieved that no such notion would obtain any credence or support amongst the people of England generally; and he thought relent? -that it would be far better if Hon. Gentlemen opposite, instead of abandoning ail their own views in order to endeavour to get into a majority by following in the train of . his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, would resort to their own po licy, and would state plainly to the House whether they intended to adhere to protection or to abandon it, whe ther they kept it iu reterhe for some future occasion, or whether, as in fact he believed was the case, though . they did not venture to say it to the farmers of this country, they utterly despaired of regaining a protective duty. -- (An indignant "No," from the Protection benches, and cheering otherwise.) If that were not so, then let them have a direct motion upon the subject. If they did mean to restore protection, why there was a large part of the country that was crying out for it, and saying. that as long as free trade lasted every interest must be suffering.—(Hear hear.) If that were so—if the country was really suffering under that infliction of free trade—if that policy Which had been pursued since 1842 were utterly mistaken—if the people were really going on the road to ruin in consequence of that policy. he said that it was the duty of Owe wino held that be lief to bring the question fairly before Parliament. At all events, he would say that he should not be afraid of meeting that question; but that he and those who thought with him would be ready to meet it at any mo mentse-(Cheers.) He held that at the present time, while the revenue was sufficient to meet their expenses, it showed, both by duties of Excise and many other taxes, that there was no falling off in the consumption of the great articles which paid duty in this country, and that there were other circumstances and reports which would show, mid which should be stated and produced whenever that question should be brought forward, that the great mass of the people of this country were now in the enjoyment au groat comforts as they ever had ' possessed.—(Loud cheers.) Lord J. MANNERS said, that the Noble Lord should have thought the information of his Hon. Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire superfluous he could readily understand, for it must be unpleasant for the Noble Lord to be reminded in that Assembly, pledged, as it was, to the principle of free imports, that a great and important interest in this couirry was still suffer ing.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord, far from endeavour ing to explain the financial position of the country, bad most ingeniously diverged from the real question at issue, and given them an elaborate statement founded partly on fact, but treuching also very metetially on the agreeable and more reluctive ground tel tie-ion, as to a proposition which had been made at some time or other by his Hon. Friend the Aleniber - fa Buckinghamshire. —(Hear, fault (Hear, hear.) But when the Noble Lord found , with wha t he had truly termed the " great scheme his Hon. Friend, he might be reminded that that ee.Y e scheme had been mentioned with the highest eulogY,', an even plagatrized by the Right Honourable the (anal, cellor of tt . to • Exchequer on the iutroduction at . r e budget.—(Gheers.) He was unwilling to protr act I n; debate, bat lie had risen to protest against the injustt, of several of the assertions of th e Noble Lord. In tnd first place, th.e Noble Lord sa id th a t they had follh we every genthen au who might have preposed some r edna. Lion of taxasioea irrespective of the justice of the claim t and the expeuditure of the country, end the Noble Leta had had—whtt should he call it?—the courage t° ett Y that his Hon. Fetend and the great bulk Of b ia ",r, porters had voted, with the Nobl e Lord the Membe r "'" Bath (Lord Du ni :an) for the repeal of the window -duty. The Noble Lor d was not correct in that statement , ' l e ) he asked him nerveto retract it.—(Cries of " Nch doe The Noble Lord, .said, that they had voted for any r i u et,o rion that might be proposed without thinking nt e d maintenance of the credit of the country, and ins tarse,am the vote to whin they had come an hour ago. 1 a of money implic taed in that vote was under 200,000 e year, and, let La m ask the Noble Lord what wits t he ee present availablit surplus which he proposed grant by way of rel ief to some interest or otherra.. (Hear, hear.) Was it not a sum greatly ex_r ee kle in;; that? . ) what ground then did the oh Lord accuse el ectlemen on that (the Opposition) side of the House of voting for a rethict ion •ie taxation without; the least regard to the maintecaucete: the public credit ? Ile maintained that the party t ie , which he bad tb e honour to act h a d ne ver given a ", during the pre, tint session of Parliament witb"' - direct reference to the maintenance of public creditC:t (Hear, hear.) re' he wanted any justification 0 1 e assertion he would find it in th e con c l u ding portion °. tu Noble Lord's owe speech; for ho hid admitted that they (the Proctectionie ts) were not without a policy would supply the necessary funds for that popes,. (dear.) Bat he .(Lord J. Manners) assured the 1-I ° ll '' that the votes wl ti ch they had given in favour of the re' .a duction of Lazo ion could be, and wer e fully ..1 11511 altogether irrest votive of that policy and without seY; censideration wi tat regard to the re-imposition of "ttietie the Noble Lord called " the taxes on the feed O f people."—(Hear , hear.) Wh en t h e N o bl e Lord t°°_, the opportunity of aecusing them of acting in at headl o S e and improper ire inner, because they hut voted for tt !e e repeal of nixes, i a favour of which nothing had bee° and in favour of ,which nothi ng cou ld b e said-5' 126 n ; Noble Lord took. the opport un i ty of ma ki ng t h a t iv ,oll } ; - ; tionetgainst them in vindi cat i on o f t h e pol i cy which' t;"-; (the Protectionia ts) imp ugne d , and i n de f ence ",t budget which wee rapidly falling in pieces before tD a r a eyes—(Hear, hea o—he would tell the Noble o l f e e that if that w qu es el, h ti i , s m d i e n fe h n i c s e h t a la n e d er e :_ve ( r c e h p ee e r r s fe .) ctly Colonel star: aORP thought that the Noble to leave the Lord at the head of the Government had pursued a bad o°l that evil tom nianicatioas had corrupted his o ° o manners." ?ever good hi s i ntent i ons /n i g ht MIL been in his heart ; and good in hi s di spos i t i on , stil l h ' y had mistaken Lis. policy, although he was backed 119 Z his Right Hone arable Relati v e. Wi t h respec t I° L" - surplus that had been talked sif, he believed t hat ther e was no surplus t is all.—(Laughter.) If the Right. 'g e n e °. Gentleman put a. -debtor and c re d itor accoun t togete I he would be as he (Col o n e l Sib t h orp ) h a d o f t en 01 in that House. worse than nothing.—(Laughter.) Tbeteect was a time when the Noble Lord opposite synolgte e t nis s e with the nth:acute:l interest, en d w h en th e no ble inl et of Russell were farmers of re s p ec t a bili ty , an d felt , ( 1 the farmers. Thmt, however, seeme d to b e a t an '- flow. Ho (Colo :el Sibthorp) was of an economical turei'; tied he was told that he ought to b e st ill more eh"ues li er t cal; but he vviish Id Honour a bl e M em b ers wou ld sePP - ie him in all the: its measures which he br oug ht under I" consideration.- —(flear, hear.) Dinner might be s t e le i r is cited amusement was a v er y goo d thing t" g w o a o y d tng too,. hi e:nt Obese were other matters of more ill/ Pla Lance. He begged to ask the Noble Lord whether ire, Deanery of Het eferd had been filled up, and if et wit whom, and at what salary ? as Lord T. RUSBELL replied that th e appo i n meat not filled up. Mr. HU 'PE observed that a nove l scene lead 'B" ken „ e a place that estenie g, which he h a d w i tnesse d w ith atteetion. • Thera was crimination and r e orirninat'' ', bet he, was fortunately in a c on diti on t o blame bc'telire (Laughter.) The Hon. Membe r f or B uc k i ngbatusto called on her Mt jesty's Government, very peeperVi S.# give relief to the agricultu ra l intereet,—(Hear, ' . 00 rout the Opposition.). lie (Mr. Hume) had presteu o , the Government the propriety of givin g re li e f to all I te te'ests, and ho had prop o sed t h e nonest an d l e giti T3vi e . mode of reducing expendi tur e, i n or d er to o b ta i n a ° t e e , plae. Hon. Gentlemen opposi t e com pl a i ne d that n Government e' had not a poli c y, b u t h e comp l a ined " e j t , they heel, and seemed determined to abide bi eet namely, that no further reduction i n ex p en dit u re A o 'o take place. It was impossible, therefore, that theY'lby have a surplus; but who was to blame for that? e e lion. Gentlemen opposite. Th e y came t o t he rest 0 when the Government was in clifficultiest.—(" il e fi t it from the Opposition beaches.) B u t h e maintained fr e e . they had done it. Every Committ ee w h o h a d hpfplfr a i n t, the subject had laid it down that the bast ali e f only way to obtain rdief was by the reduction our establishments. He had c o mplai ne d o f the Gh/e ss ; silent to king five or six millions fr om th e p oc kets of " I to people for the army and navy, an d ma d e an aPP°II eel the House for a reduction of th e num b er of weir`sa; ployerl; and what was t'-e consequence ? H o nourw — a ,. Gentleman opposite joined the Nobl e L or d, an d he ("' 0 "; Hume) was left in a miser a bl e m i nor i ty of some 40 50. If they wanted relief; they should take those 1 10 %1 by which relief could be obtained, an d d o as they wOen-s in their own establishments—reduce their expend ; t," when it balanced their in t er ne , Th e Ch ance ll or Of tet. s.;xchequur said that he had no m one y to g i ve 'Oaf, w - e t Honourable Gentlemen might give" him money for t h fo purpose by reducing the nation a l esta bli s h ments . 6,°_, be both sides had been quarrelli ng a b ou t not hi n g, thought they were both to blame. When our esti- 11 '; et ments were reduced, and a surplus was obtained, it nut. be applied towards the relief of the most deserving t er ties. Above al', however, he b egge d t h e H ou se th tai be Sider, that as this was a commercial country, and ° he welfare of the agriculturists themselve s d e pended 012 ; b 10 prosperous condition of comm e rc e , it was mos t Mir to remove every fiscal restriction on commerce at h tee and abroad, and everything that tended to injure health and comfort of the mass of the population. o f The House then resolved itself into Committee' Supply. V e Sir F. BARING said that at th a t l a t e hour ( go minutes to twelve o'clock) ho could not propose W e to on with the navy estimates, and th ere f ore he beggew move that the Chairman report progress. bet Mr. DISRAELI begged to remind the Hon. Mee' fur Montrose, who had made a very interesting sP ee op! that it was quite beside the question raised on the , i f or position side of the Horne. They had only asketh oe d 300,000/, which was at present unappropriated , r e , which they thought might as well be applied to sh e lief of the agricultural interest. e rr The House resumed, and the Chairman reporte d r gress. In answer to questions put by different 'Jona l.o Me nbc'rs. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that on Monclsl,.„,e. Right kleo. Friend the Chancellor of the Exuhe's: o d would make a statement respecting savings banks, ;j o t ask for leave to bring in a Bill on tho subject, and afterwards the Government would take she second rll'ti-or ing of the Eeele,siastical Commission Bill. The estimates could no!: be taken before Monday we ek. 0 1 The Fees (Court of Common Pleas) Bill went thr °t Y Committee. On the motion of Mr. ROEBUCK, the Select Cul; mittee on Sir Thomas Turton was nominated as fol l 7 o —Mr. Roebuck, Marquis of Douro, Viscount Jo ce , r / is: Mr. Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Elliot, Mr. Hustie M DO Sir J. Hogg. b The SOLICITOR-GENERAL obt a i ne d leave to rinv in a Bill . to amend an Act of the last session of ment, for granting relief against defects in leases '- under powers of leasing. The House then, at Twelve o'clock, adjourned. .ort EXTRAORDINARY BIRTIIS.—On the 19th )11" t - g Margaret Nutter, of Salford, Burnley, was delivered of thafir full-grown children, two of whom are at present ativeooo healthy, and with the mother are doing well. 111„%. ins female has had twins at two previous births, thus 11 10 "„ tis all seven children within the last two years and nine TheP•oe,, —On the 11th inst., the wife of Mr. B. Harrison, lioo, schoolmaster, Grimsby, of a daughter, who has two 14 i f av fathers, two grandmothers,_two great-grandfathers , A n great-grandmothers! p 140 fr [ADVERTISEMENT.] -Wonderful E ffi cacy o• 41 , 10 0 loway's Ointment and Pills.—Nine months since a ge n i ;oifl residing in Glaslough, county of Monaghan, had an made from the hip to the knee, and a great deal uf,7, - sl' flesh removed. For three years he suffered night ane,,u 3 „"b'ifi: though he consulted all the most skilful surgeons 00 " [ t i r os; clans Ise could hear of, using baths, liniments, &c.s %% go . o `, effect. He expected to in a cripple for life, yet, by the use. Holloway's Ointment and Pills, he is now cured, and ° n ib la to attend to business for the last six months, as though 13- f dis had happened. His address is known to the, proprieter2foor Armagh Guardian. Sold by all druggists, and at Holloway's Establishment, 244, ..trand, CIO I, 5 '' EPO} GEIT la6o, The 1 CUrr The 3 sOCiety, 13t, 2cl, Ti ....... .--........*.........-- 131RT17,Y, SIS. On the 23d inst., at the residence of the Do wag er countess Torrington, the Hon. Mrs. Hall, of a daugli te d' e ote On the I. , th inst., in Grosvenor-square, the lady of B. Collier, Esq., of a daughter. On the 23d inst., at Wargrave, the lady o f th e r ev , R. Flint, of a daughter. ,:. lo:/ 1,. (If , On the 21c1 inst., at Bursledon. Southampton , t he W. C. Humphrys, Esq., o' a daughter. g Wi lrfell On the 23d inst., at Winchester, the wife of Esq., Lieutenant, RN., of a son. On the 24th inst., in Chester-square, the WY of _—/ Goddard. Esq., M.P:, of a daughter: ---%•"'"..--- NARRIED. COP . ( On the 25th inst., at St. George's, Hanover-scluare'tti ° fain Ottavio Giuseppe, son of Signor Ottavio 138retoftb° Piverone (Ivrea), to . Mary Susan, youngest deug hte 'ire. - late B. Clarke, Esq., of Welton. place. Northamptonsbna 00a At St. Pancras, on the 25th inst., David Shaw'. se c° GJOS of the late James Barbour, Esq., of Dunn-mir-haese' is te j . Dangles, N. 8., to Eliza, youngest daughter of the Jackson, Esq , of Ulvcrstone. ..---- --------- t DIED. , oober On the 23d inst., in Jermyn-street, St. James's , , Wright, Esq., aged 85. 0 r O i d a g the e , Es 2 q l . d , o f inst., ic.e n a t t is J h ef t s o ey w , n J , a n g m e e d s eldest James, cis?s ' t i re th et e , On the 22N:33eddwi inst., iiinsr.t 0 ant, Mary, ttulrr t ee h yr ei aged w ho i f 3 o et f ,% lif il r. r. l : g be: o e p: r e ' , 1 : : a :: i i ), ; , fte : ::: f . 0 wife of Major Chalmer T Ga le, On the 25th most , Mary Ann, the wife of flr. • ~ Stock 7w Newgate-stmet, aged L 2. eg Ex C . :l e n lia t u h i e:sth inst., at Walnut-tree-wilk,Le mbeth 'he Charles Nairne, Esq., for many years a member of t" , , _--- 0 1 ----- .----_— ____-6-00,,i r,..;ndon: Printed and Published by ramion„l" iikT, I'd No. 112, :Strand, Printer, at The Suet 0 30 2 * co oti ;'4 , tand, in . the , Prminct cf tho S=..roy, in t he .Dl'dditwor, Saturday, April 27, 1850. a ds Tt , 4th, .11111: 11 1 , tr u 16 ' 4 ' l ot bt 1 0, j Sottr' f ' tei, • ,g ur _ 4 t ht in c -"(Lc ty I3 I , TI : t 'eto, "th e 1,, elltormt Th 4t‘v, v?, 4 104, THE SUN, ~