The Sun. — London, England, 1850-05-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, May 14. Their Lordships TE assembled at Five o'clock. H HOLIDAYS. In answer to Lord STANLEY, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he should en Friday move the adjournment of the House to Mons slay ee'nnight. PAROCHIAL ASSESSMENTS. Lord PORTMAN moved for the appointment of a Committee as consider the law relating to parochial assessments. This Committee was necessary to assist their Lordships in coming to a decision on the subjectsmatter of certain Bills which might come up to them from the other House •of Parliament. It was manifest that if a deteriora e tion of rateable property took place there must he some alteration in the assessment of those rates—(Hear, hear)—and therefore it was necessary that they should go carefully into those matters. The heaviest burdens upon land arose out of the law of settlement, and it was impossible to legislate uperi the subject without corning to some understanding upon the subject of rating. It was desirable that rating should take place equitably upon all species of property, and that there should be one uniform system of rating. At present, while some perishes paid 23 per cent. on their rental to the poor rates, others only paid 2 Ter cent. These circurn . stances, he thought, justified him in calling their attention to the subject of parochial assess ment. Among other subjects which would come under the consideration of the Committee would be the rating of railways and the rating of stock in trade. Then they should endeavour to devise some method of altering the present system of constant change of the basis on which the rate is made; he thought no change should be made without cause shown for such change before some tribunal. Ho also thought they should consider how best they could get rid of mere forms by which rates were quashed on legal technicalities. Then there were the questions of the rating of small tenements, and of who was to make, to collect, or to alter the rate. He thought all the property of the country should contribute its fair proportion towards the maintenance of the poverty of the country. With regard to the county rate,, that was in point of fact a part of the poor-rate. The Noble Lord concluded by moving for a select Committee-. The Bishop of LONDON supported the motion. The Marquis of LANSDOW.NE was understood to say that he had no objection to the motion. Earl FITZ WILLIAM hoped the investigations before the Committee would not be conducted in such a manner as to lead either to union or national rating.—(Hear, hear.) He wished to lead their Lordships to con sider whether it vas deferable that there should be a poor rate at all, or a highway rate, or any separate rate, and whether it would not be better to re-organize the whole system of rating for local purposes. Ile be lieved it would be better to have one parochial rate only, out of which certain sums should be awarded for the maintenance of the poor, of the highways, and of the Church. He thought it would be better to do away with all special rates, and to have one local treasury to defray all these charges. The Earl of MALMESBURY did not agree with the Noble Lord as to the necessity of a Committee. They were all too well informed on the eubjeet to need an investigation, and he thought the Government should have brought in some measure on their own eeeponsibility to relieve those who suffered from the present system of rating, which pressed most hardly upon certain interests.- He thought the poor-rate should be leried by a poundage upon every description of property and income. He would recommend the-'" Noble Lord, when he acted as , ;chittrh?an of this Committee, to avoid mixing up the . questwn of poor-rate with that of any other rate. e Lord lIATIIERTON thought it would be desirable to institute chile inquiry, in order to enable the House properly tfi dial:with any, rate Bill that might come be fore its There could be no doubt but that any parish wheciai by mismanagement, had increased the amount of •ite rates, would he exceedingly glad, by means of a national or general rate, to throw the burden on the shoulders of its neighbours. Let them look at Ireland; if they had not localised the rate then they would by this time have had a fearful battle between the property and the population of the country. He hoped his Noble Friend would endeavour to increase the description of property at present liable to rating. The motion was then agreed to. PETITIONS. The Earl of M ALMESBURY presented a petition from Mr. George Hutchinson, the author of " A Plea for the Equalisation of the Poor-rates," praying the House to investieriate the merits of his proposition. The E trl of WARWICK and BROOKE presented a petition from the agriculturists of Warwickshire, com plaining of distress, and praying for a re-enactment of protective duties on the importation of corn and other articles of agricultural produce. PARISH CONSTABLES BILL. Oa the motion of the Earl of RONINEY, this Bill passed through Committee. Several verbal amendments were introduced into the Bill. SUNDAY TRADING BILL. On the motion of the Earl of HAIaROWBY, the House resolved itself into Committee on this Bill. Lord BE AUMONT said that as several alterations had been introduced into the Bill, as, for instance, a clause had bean introduced, inflicting a penalty of ss. per heard on a barber for every beard he might shave on a Sunday, he thought the Bill ought to be recommitted in a Com mittee of the whole House, so ae to give the House an opportunity of ereiding whether it would consent to such a tariff ef beards. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, the House restuned, and the Bill was ordered to be re-committed on Thursday. , JUDGMENTS (IRELAND) BILL. The Marquis of LANSDOtVNE, in moving the second reacting of this Bill, stated that its object was to facilitate the sales of lend which were at present going on in Relend with so much benefit, by attracting capita to that country. After referring to the serious evils which arose out of the existing law of judgments, the Niable Marquis briefly explained the remedies which the Bill propessd to apply to those grievances. The effect of the Bill, he said, would be greatly to increase the number and value of marketable titles in Ireland, and, in proportion as the number and value of market able titles were increased, in the same proportion would the proprietore of land in that country be benefited. All ho asked of their Lordship in now proposing the second reading of the Bill was that they would merely express their wish to apply a remedy to a great and crying evil which at this particular moment hung heavily upon a class whom it had always been the wish as well as the policy of their Lordships to conciliate. The Earl of GLENGALL remarked, that it was no recommendation of the Bill in his eyes to be told that it would facilitate the working of the Encumbered Estates Act; for he believed that of all the Bills that bad ever disgraced. Parliament that was the worst. It was neither more nor less than an act of confiscation. By the operation of that measure, estates worth 25 or 30 ycare' parchese had been sold at from 11 to 14 years' purchase. He hoped to live to see the day when the people of Ireland would meet on College-green to wit ness the terrain; of the Parliamentary titles by the hands; of the common hangman. The Noble Earl then suggested several amendments in the Bill before the House, and laid them on the table with the view of their being proposed in. Committee. The Bill w , 15 then read a second time; to be committed on Monday after Whitsun week. ESTATES LEASING (IRELAND) BILL. The Martinis of L A.NSDOWNE moved the second . 'reading of the Estates Leasing (Ireland) Bill, the .Object of which, he explained, was to increase the powers of persons having a limited in'erest in landed • property to eraset !esters. Lerd MONTEAGLE intimated his intention to pro pose amendment, in Cernmittee• Lord REDESDALE objected to certain provisions of the Bill, which would enable a person, at the last hour of t:is life, to lease out a farm for ninety-nine years, thereby depriving his successor of the benefit of the property. To promote farm improvements ne term exeeeding twenty years was necessary. - The Earl of GLENGALL also gave notice of a a m s eridmants- He tho ug ht t h e Bill m i g ht be construed allowing a tenant who had the residue of a lease to demise that to aneteer, who could obtain a lease fur ninety-nine years re-ainst the landlord After a f ew words train the Marquis ' of LANS •'DOWNE, The Bill Was read tti second time - DISTRESSED IJNIONSAmDe.VANCES BILL. On the motion for going into Committee on the Die tressed Unions Advances and Repayment of Advances (Ireland) Bill, Lord MONTEAGLE expresseshieeonvictio n th at t l hi without considerable, amendments ~B jl Bill would h be pro ductive of evil rather teen good, u lerly to remind their Lordships that the treat particu st bulk of the debts to which the measure related bad not been in. cured by the proprietors el Ireland, but had under the Labour -rate Act been forced on the land of Irel an d b e htte eiCe-g, na rdians selected by the Gov ernment. In illus y A - aneV 4inatiatt he referred to the cases of Bellina, Intlruah, and tir'S' 4 4'4 4 l- -Ifitdvitell, where the debt had been greatly increased • , under the administration of these officers. Then the con ' tracts bad been entered into at rates rising 10, 20, 30, end sometimes 40 per dent. above the mart was p ketpri rc ce : r, - Bat on converting a bad into a good security, i I ;Ite' Totterous to pay at the rat e of a bad security. The Bill 144464' 'ave the Treasury power to apportion the debt among baronies, electoral divisions, and townlandes • y subject to no responsibility or . restraint,an_od solve would require Mr. Bebbage's calculating. machine t under the -.• • e . c o mplicated questions which might be ra ised . 'Bill. How such a Bill should have received the assent - bf the representatives of the people he could not under- . •a — etind; and ho hoped . a clause would be introduced allowing what might be done by the Treasury under the Bile to be brought under the review of Parliament hero after. . , After a few words from the Earls of GLENGALL and Aii.ecreeow, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE remarked that it was necessary to make a distinction between the distressed unions and those which were better able to discharge their obligations, and no doubt need be entertained that the discretionary power 'rested in the Treasury would be exercised with due regard to the equity of each ease. When the Noble Lard reterred to the manner in which motley had been expended in Leland under certain Acts of Parliament, .he °ugly. to have borne in mind the circumstances under which ttose Acts were passed. They were intended to , _meat a great calamity, and the Noble Lord himself sup gOit , ll 00 other mode of coping with that calamity. It was admitted at the time that the machinery by which • this Acts of the Legislature were to be put in metier' was clogged by na • •-1; • ;••• . 1 11 ant un a void side dtlficulties, but, me et are ) did not appeer that . any serious abuses had oe ,atTee'--- a...p:ftEZlf the proprietors and the tenantryof Ireland had, 112 nbri Mogi been called upon to contribute to an uu- f . 1 ,: t !f Ikl ~.~ ~=,~. .~ , Y=lP' ~t. -, necessary expenditure, it must not be forgotti 4n that this part of the United Kingdom had been most liberal of its aid to the sister country. The Bill then passed through Committee, and was ordered to be read a third time.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 14. Tho SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time and passed:— Bolton Improvement. Manchester Rectory Division. The following Bills were considered and agreed to:— Dublin and Drogheda Railway. London (City) Improvements. Reading Cattle Market. LONDON (WATFORD) SPRING WATER COM PANY BILL. On the motion that this Bill be road a second time, Mr. REPTON moved that it be read a second time that day six months. Mr. B. OSBORNE said be thought great public in terests were involved in the supply of water to the me tropolis, and in his opinion the house would be doing a "air thing if they sent this and all other water Bills relating to the metropolis to a Select Com mittee. He could not help expressing his astonishment that her Majesty's Ministers had not informed the House what their intentions were with respect to those water Bills fur the metropolis. He must call on his Right Hon. Friend the Home Secretary to explain to the House what the intentions of the Go vernment were with regard to the supply of water to the metropolis. Sir G. GREY said that there was no foundation for the report which he had only just heard, that the treat ment which these water Bills would receive at the hands of the Government depended on the fate of the Extra mural Interment Act. The question of the supply of water to the metropolis had been referred to the consideration of the Board of Health, and he had every reason to suppose that that board had devoted its greatest consideration to that question. Previous to Easter the Board commu nicated that it had not as yet been able to make a report, and it suggested that it would be expedient for the House and the public at large if those Bills were not al lowed to proceed until the report were published. In accordance with that communication he had moved the postponement of those Bills until after Easter. The re port of the Board was not yet published, and though he did • not think it justifiable to delay the Bill for the purpose of receiving the report, still, perhaps, the House would think it desirable to postpone the Bills al together until another session. Lord ASHLEY. did not think it desirable that these Bills should be proceeded with before the report of the Board of Health was published, which ho intimated would be ready by Whitsuntide. After a few words from Mr. BAILLIE, The House then divided, when there appeared— For the second reading ... 90 Against it ... ... 196 Majority ... —lO6 The Bill was consequently thrown out. METROPOLITAN WATERWORKS (HENLEY ON-THAMES AND LONDON ACQUEDUCT) BILL. Sir W. MOLESWORTH proposed the second read ing of this Bill. Mr. WILLYAMS opposed the Bill, and moved that it be read a second time' that day six months. Mr. ROBERT PALMER seconded the amendment. Atter some observations from Sir DE LACY EVANS, Lord ASHLEY said that what London wanted was not quantity of water but quality, and a proper distribu tion; and when the report of the Sanitary Commissioners was laid on the table of the House, some useful suggestions on that subject would be laid before the public. He be lieved that, instead of 2,000,0001. being required for the supply of London with water, 300,0001. would be amply sufficient. He should, therefore, support the amendment that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Mr. HUME was surprised at the opposition of the Noble Lord to the Bill. If there was anything objec tionable in the measure, let it go into Committee and be there rectified. Mr. MUNTZ could see no reason why the Bill should not go into Committee, as in that tribunal its provisions might be properly sifted, and any errors corrected. Culouel B. KNOX opposed the second reading of the Bill. Mr. MOWATT supported the second reading. All that the people of London wanted to do was to supply themselves with water out of the Thames, and they were opposed by some halt-down millowners. He contended that that oppositioa ought not to weigh one iota, fur this reason, that that mill property could be properly compensated for by a grant of money. —(Cheers and laughter.) He had nothing whatever to do with this Bill, except as an inhabitant of London, and he thought the House was bound to receive those Rills and send them before a Committee, which was the prober tribunal for testing them.—(Divide, divide.) He wished Hon. Gentlemen could only see one of the water systems in op:qation in his house.—(lronical laughter.) Lord It. GROSVENOR opposed the second reading. He thought the future supply of water to the metropo lis should not be left to a trading company. Mr. B. OSBORNE said there was no subject which could be discussed in this House, in which the inhabitants could take a greater interest than in this. No less than 1,800,000 persons assembled to discuss thissuhject yester. day evening.—(Laughter.) He thought his Hon. Colleague (Lord Robert Grosvenor) had misrepresented the Hen ley Company in calling it a trading company. So far from that, it wan ves'ed altogether in the bands of the ratepayers.—(" No, no.") At all events the ratepayers were interested in it. Why the inhabitants of London were being daily poisoned by the most nauseous streams that could be given to any animal.—(Laughter.) He (Mr. Osborne) hat with him an account of a microsco pical examination of the water supplied by the three companies south of the Thames, with plates of the ani mals which Hun, Gentleman were in the habit of imbib- ing—( A laugh)—it appeared that the nastiest animal was drunk by those who were supplied by the Lambeth Company.—(Llughter.) If Gentlemen would take the trouble to look through the book they would be per fectly astonished to see the animals they were in. the habit of imbibing—at least those of them who drank wat-r.—(Loud laughter.) Now, the question being whether the inhab►tants *of London should not be sup plied with is better article, at a cheaper rate, the House ought surely to send such Bills as thisto a Committee to decide on them upon their merits.—(ll.ar, hear.) It was the best course to take, in Order to secure immediate legislation.—(Hear.) Mr. WYLD represented the opinions of several thou sands on the subject, and they were decidedly opposed to any Government interference in the supply of water. The principle of centralization had been pushed tar enough they thought, and they considered themselves quite able to manage their uwn affairs. The House then divided. when there appeared— Fur the second reading - • ... ... 116 Against it ... ... 226 Majority ... ... —llO The Bill wag consequently thrown out. MAR HAL LAW IN CEPHALONIA. Mr. lIUME postponed. his motion for a Commission to inquire into the causes of the late riots and procla cca'aun of martial law in Cephalonia, and proceedings thereupon; and into the grievances of the inhabitants of the lunian Islands. until the 4th of June. AHLITARY KNIGHTS OP WINDSOR. Colonel SALW EY postponed his motion fur a Select Committee to inquire into the case and claims of the Military Knights of Windsor until the 4th of June. GROW'TEI OF co croN IN INDIA. Mr. BRIGHT postponed until the 4th of June his motion to the effect that an humble address should be presented to her Majesty,. praying her Majesty to ap point a Commission to proceed to India to inquire into the obstacles which preventod an increased growth of cotton in that country, and to report upon any cir cumstances which might injuriously affect the eco nomical and industrial condition of the nativepopulation, being cultivators.of the soil within the presidencies ut Bombay and Madras. IRISH POOR-LAW. Mr. R FRENCH gave notice that on an early day after Whitsuntido he should call the attention of the House to the working of the Irish Poor-law. AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. Mr. NEWDEGATE presented a petition from a place in Warwickshire complaining of agricultural dis tress, and praying . for a return to protection. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL it was agreed that the House at its rising should adjourn until Thursday next. MORNING SITTINGS. Mr. FREWEN thought it was only just that those Hon. Memners who had notice of motion fir to-morrow should have an opportunity of bringing them on as early as possible, and he should therefore move that the House meet at twelve o'clock on Thursday. Sir GEORGE GREY said the orders which stood for to-morrow had already been postponed for days subse quent to Thursday, and, therefore, nothing would be Mr. FITZ ROY asked gained Af by their having a morning sitting on that day. After a few words from Mr. HUME motions to o hu s r u sd b a m y i s t to to in t d h e e pe ß n 9 d u e s n e t halm givin T Government ' to ' extend the rest). had • sent of tphietowThoEleurilioe The motion was t c h u3 n eeo. w Whit suntide. beyond J. RUSSELL could not so without the con• N TO AGRICULTURE. After the presentation' a.. praying forprotect of a large number of petitions, nut.. G. BERK:ELoyh to agriculture, House should resolve itselfoni rising to move that the consideration the Acts relatinginto Committee to take into fo reign corn, said that he feltit to the importation of on the kind indulgence of the e ec n es o sary to cast himself aware of the difficult position which huse. He was fully information and he believed that the country needed moree formation than it already bad with regard to the intentionsn jesty's Government towards the country, suffering her Ma was under the present extreme agricultural l d e ' ring as ll i ! would endeavour to show the agricultural interest, tstress. the teralt-farmers of this country, the real o. and which they were pieced, and what they hadP t s o it e ton in from the great parties of the State; an 4 in doing t so, he would beg to allude to tho answers given to the addresses lately presented to the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, and also to another Noble Lord holding contrary opinions, to the short and somewhat bitter refusal given by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, and to the different amount of attention paid, and the dignified mode in which Lord Stanley received the deputation that waite.l upo n him. In reply to the address presented to Lord John Russell on Saturday, his Lordship said, " You also say here, ' that the only hope of replacing the agricul tural and other native and colonial interests in a state of , prosperity, rests on the re-establishment of a just sys tem of import duties.' Ido not deny, or wish in any way to shrink from the responsibility which rests upon ber Majesty's Government for the line of policy they have adopted; but no such proposition has been made to the House of Commons, and the House of Commons has not rejected any such proposition." Now the proposition which he (Mr. G. Berkeley) had to bring before the House was one that could not be misunderstood by those out of doors, who were anxious to distinguish their friends from their foes. He asked the House why no such proposi tion bad been made before? Were not the steps to such a proposition attempted by Hon. Gentlemen oppo site? Did they not approach the question when they asked for a fair consideration of the depression now existing in the agricultural districts? Did they not ap proach the question more than once by motions? And were not those steps met by the Government in every stage, and in every instance, almost with contempt, but certainly with decided opposition?—(Hear, hear.) The distress was asserted at the opening of Parliament. Was not the suffering of the agricultural interest alluded to in the Speech from the Throne? Was it not thereafter denied that distress did exist?—(Hear, hear.) He asked the House, did not the Government, and those lion. Gentlemen who supported her Majesty's Government, assert that the landed proprietors—the Lords and Com mons of this country—made and kept up a vain and vexatious cry of distress for the sole and sordid and miserable purpose of maintaining their high rents? —(Hear, hear.) He asked the House was not the landed interest outraged and insulted by that as sertion?—(Hear, hear.) A more insulting or un worthy assertion had never emanated from the Go vernment benches.—(Hear, hear.) He aske I, did not the Government close the door against any attempt at bringing the question forward?—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, in his reply, had gone on to say, " I think it would neither be desirable to go back from free trade to prohibition or restriction, nor advisable to dissolve Parliament in order to ask the opinion of the country upon the subject. That is the conclusion to which I have come. With respect to the suffering which has been stated to exist, it is neither inconsistent with my expectations, nor inconsistent with what I have heard, that in various parts of the country deep suffering does exist, and that that suffering is partly—and I should say in part only—owing to recent changes in our commer cial laws." There, then, at last they had an admission from the Prime Minister that suffering did exist—an admission of a matter that had been frequently denied by him, and the lauded proprietors were, by that ad mission in some respect relieved from the insult of being charged with striving merely to keep up the pries:, of their rents. Were it not that he felt the greatest re spect for the Noble Lord's character, both in public and in private—a respect which ho was proud to say he entertained—ho should have been disposed to draw a peculiar inference from what followed in the Noble Lord's reply. It was this—" I believe that these changes were in their general aspect inevitable. I believe that ten years ago it might have been foreseen that this country, as it became more opulent and commercial, would require great changes in that direction, and my object was at that time to make the transition accom panied by as little suffering and distress as possible. But the advice I gave with that view was rejected, not only with contempt, but with indignation." Wero it not that he knew the Noble Lord was incapable of enter taining such a feeling, he should have been led to sup pose that in that paragraph he bad spoken with some feeling of bitterness towards those gentlemen who had foregone his advice.—(Hear, hear.) But there never was a time when the country required so much attention as it did at present. Agricultural distress was so general, so universal—they were trenching upon such immediate ruin, that there was no pos sibility of avoiding attending to their condition. The union workhouses were full to overflowing. The people were clamorous for a reduction of rents—the labourers were working at reduced wages. Wheat had become reduced in price so low that the farmers could no longer grow it with any profit. The average price was now about 101. a load, and the importation of foreign corn showed no probability of becoming less in amount. There was no prospect of any reward for agriculturists. What, then, were they to do? They locked for some notice from the Government, but they had it not. They looked for some alleviation from the Legislature, but they had it not. They then looked to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and hoped that in his budget they would find some boon for them, some alleviation of their con dition, But what did they find? What did the Free trade Government do for them, after all their promises ..f retrenchment and economy? Why they did nothing. They gave them bricks when they asked for bread.— (Hear.) But in removing the brick duties they benefitted only some of the landed proprietors, not the tenant-farmers; but the great bulk of the benefit went to the manufacturers and the manufacturing towns. And having thus adverted to the conduct of the Government, he would allude to the course pursued in pretending to accoant fur the prevailing distress. The landlords were first told that all they had to do to meet it was to reduce their rents. He maintained that no re duction of rent would have alleviated it; and that no Government and no Member of that House had any right to ask private individuals to meet difficulties which their public legislation had occasioned. It was not, and it could not be, a question of rent.—(Hear, hear.) And, moreover, had the rents been reduced to such an extent as that the landed proprietors would have been ruined, the agriculturists would not still have been benefutel, and the manufacturers would soon find that the ruin which had affected the agriculturists must reach them in turn. They had been told that the expe riment would be finally successful. He denied that it was an experiment. But whatever it was, it had lasted three years, and it had been sufficiently tried and found unsuccessful. When was it to end?--(Hear.) If ttey were not satisfied with the ruin which their hybrid mea sure had already occasioned, when, he asked, would they be content? Why, there was not a single speck upon the political horizon which gave them hope that it would ever be successful. The distress having become rt last too evident to be longer denied, it was admitted. It was admitted now, when farm sales were taking place every day, and the tenant-farmers could not pay any rents, and they were told for comfort that the present low prices of provisions would not last, and that high prices would shortly come again. Why, the free-traders had set out with stating that low prices were what they wished to maintain.—(Cbeers.) ..That was the boon which they promised to bestow upon the country. But now they turned round, and said, that things would be bett?r, and prices would be higher soon.—(Hear.) Ac cording to that reasoning, the Government would allow that it was possible to buy gold too dear; and that pro visions might be so low as not to be remunerative to the producer in this country. But how wore they to abate the evil unless they gave their labourers sufficient protection? He, however, was not about to ask the House to reconsider their erroneous policy. Ho only asked that due considera tion might be given to it, and that a Committee might be appointed to advise some remedy for the great dia. tre,3s under which the agricultural interest was suffer ing. If a cheap loaf was not the object of free trade, he hoped that her Majesty's Government would explain what its object was? One member of that Government had said that ho did not expect that prices would fall so low as they had done, 'and on that ground alone he thought that they were entitled to demand a revision of ;he present law. If the present prices were to continue —if we were still to be dependent upon the foreigner— the farmers would soon be obliged to give op cultivation, and what would become of England then? They were told that a bread -tax could no longer be tolerated—that protection was dead and buried. How came it then that there were articles of food upon which a duty was still levied? He held that the necessity of protection was acknowledged by the list of articles on which a duty was imposed--a list comprehending the names of thirty-six substances produced by manufacturing and thirty five by agricultural industry. If it were to he said that they had no right to impose taxation upon the food of the people, what right had they to levy taxation upon the edible articles in question? If free trade therefore were an experiment, he asked why had they not tried that experiment in full? Why did they not allow the farmer to have the full benefit of what was fairly and really free trade, instead of sup porting the present hybrid measure, which, if persisted in, would go far to ruin all the interests of the state. Not content, however, with this partial application of the free-trade system, they had run counter to every dictate of honour, justice, and religion, by admitting slave-grown produce—thus erring upon moral as well As upon economical grounds. No doubt it would be said, so far as regarded the latter consideration, that the present low prices would not continue. The last re turns, however, showed them atilt to be in a declining condition, and although the markets at this moment ex hibited a tendency to look up, that fact was, in a great measure, to be attributed to the late remarkable preva lence of easterly winds preventing rapid importation. Prices might partially get up in this way, but they would find that after the next harvest they would fall lower than ever they had done. In America and other coun tries a greater breadth of ground was sown with wheat than during any past year; and he felt certain, from all he saw, that they had not as yet by any means seen the worst as regarded the prices of agricultural produce. Now, what had been the predictions of the leading ad vocates of free trade as to the results of their doctrine? They had told the people that the land would be a land flowing with milk and honey—that there 'was happi ness and prosperity in store for every one under a free trade regime. Was such the case ? No ; the reality that its ad was as different from the promise as was the reality of premises --wrong in the Mississippi estate Eden, described in " Martin Chusslewit," from the account given of it by the land m e r b wrong, in fact, from their conclusions —thoroughly T sp oc e a cu t( l .s ato h r a . d A be l e l n th w at ro fr n e g e r n a d e theirp proved o v p e r d e n was, se House the Honourablere erGethne. Let b h y e promises made to the farmers RA' llest Riding. e tlemen the Member for the W to last.—(Hear, hear.) pro mised them a reign of happy abundance—he promised the labourers an increase of wages.—(Hear.) had this promise come true ?—(hear, hear.) Were not the labourers in some counties now reduced to six shilling's a week?—a sum which gave them less money, in propor tion, to buy th© cheap loaf than they had before to pur chase the dear one. As for the firmer', was it to be _ ti swuupepuosed the vtahlaute ofrn e t n h p s i v r o p u r l o d d w ue o e r k w asv s t t a li k t e n u er a e w a a se y d_a ( c ile v a i t r y , hear)—or was it to be supposed that they would bear with patient passiveness any such proceeding on the part of the Legislature?—(Hear, hear.) Yet, now lot the Rouse observe how every impatient word which fell from the farmers was marked and scrutinised.—(Herr, hear.) The lion. Gentleman the Member for the West Riding had told the agriculturists that they were as dull as the oxen which they drove, and the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Manchester had stigmatised them as cowardbranded reaene dreidu e g ; b y y v e e ta t ht n ei y o re rsoonertraders re r w t su e a:us e t t oh h na e t na tn a h r i aemigre threats speeches pr ee f ea o et u ah n ea d af wa t o be were branded b y th e free . trad e rs as c onta i n i ng th r eats of a re volutionary character. As soon as the tarmers, who, of all chums had the most reason to use hasty expreesious, did hold language of the kind, the free traders,who ought , to be the last, were the first to take the matter up; end already he found that there was an intention announced of moving that the yeomanry forces should no longer be tolerated,—(Hear, hear.) Why, he asked, was a hasty expression or so to be so seriously visited, and that het men who had been such great sinners in the same way themselves ? What he wondered at was, that the yeo manry and farmers had been quite so long. Not that he advocated an appeal to violence, but he did believe that if farmers had bestirred themselves in time, they would not have found themselves in the position in which they now stood. The advice given to them to continue to agitate until they should find themselves properly and fairly represented in the House of Commons was good advice, and he hoped that it would be acted upon.— (Hear, hear.) lie challenged any free-trader to point to one instance of any of our institutions having been improved by free trade. The state of the country. par ticularly in the rural districts, told quite a different story from that of improvement. (Tne Honourable Gentleman then proceeded at considerable length to read long tabular statements of figures, purport ing to show the great depreAstion in the value of lauded property in the county of Suffolk since the ed vent of free trade, the general results being that the capital employed in agriculture in the county had been reduced in value from 6,418,0001. to 4,258.6671.) Tne Hon. Gentlemen then proceeded to quote various letters from different parts of the country, giving accounts of the depressed state of agriculture. A correspondent from Gloucestershire, a gentleman of high authority, had written, that unless some alteration were made in the existing laws, half of the farmers would be ruined in the course of the next twelve months. Many had been already obliged to sacrifice their little private property to pay their rents. How, indeed, could it be otherwise, when one corn-merchant in Bristol had imported great quantities of corn at 3s. a bushel. The next litter was from a farmer, near Ely, in Cambridgeshire. This gentleman wrote that that county was fast approaching ruin, and that the farmers could not go on with the pre sent low prices of agricultural produce. While the dif ference between a remunerating and an unduly low price was hardly felt by the consumer ' it was ruin to the farmer, the labourer, and to a ll trades depending upon agricul ture. He (Mr. G. Berkeley) therefore asked the House to take these repreeer tations into consideration, and to deliberate as to whether it was not time for this experiment of free trade to be put an end to. It was time, in his opinion, that a line should be drawn limiting the distress of the country. If they could not economise, and reduce the burdens upon land so as to allow the home farmer to compete with the foreigner, he called upon theta to give native industry sufficient protection. Let them not persist in refusing to confess that they had been in the wrong, and that they had been pursuing a course which WAS eminently qualified to prostrate the principal interest of the kingdom. At all events the House would not, he hoped, deceive themselves with the idea that the agitation now going on was about to be put an end to.—(Great Protectionist cheering.) He was aware that fur the present they would be forced to allow the present hybrid measure to continue, because the Go eminent used unconstitutional means to force its majorities.—(Bear, hear.) Those who were afraid of a dissolution were obliged to vote for Ministers. —(H e ar, hear.) Why, was not there a letter recently published from one of the Members for Westminster, stating that the Government had forced him to vote for them against his consciene•?—(Hear, hear, oh, oh, and laughter.) For his own part, he would always rather yield his seat than rote against the dic tat,:s of his opinions.—(Hear.) It was time, however, if lion. Gentlemen were to be thus coerced into voting, that something should be done for the reform of the House itself. It was not without great pain that he now found himself imperatively obliged to sever—in one re spect at least—his political connexion with the Noble Lord at the head of the Government. Notwithstanding he brought forward this motion—still claiming to be a free-trader—(Oh, oh, and cheers)—still advocating the cause of free trade, which the country did not yet possess, and upon which odium had been thrown, by the insufficient manner in which it had been carried eut. At present the policy in operation gave a cheap loaf to one portion of the country at the expense of the other. In familiar language, they were robbing Peter to pay Paul—taking from one man the produce of his acres to enrich therewith his neighbour. The Govern. ment, he believed, did not think they had the power to put their theory of free trade into practice, and under those circumstances they ought to retrace their steps, and give the suffering interest he represented some chance of better days. By all that the Govern ment and the House held most dear, he implored them to re-consider the present tho nt sewho in ti measure of free of wartrade, and a and t a r h o o tbl s e om w e e s r y e mpathy f England's best supporters. lie repre sented an interest from whose ranks our armies and martial forces were supplied, but which was now fast sinking to decay and ruin. The industry of England was no longer flourishing, and foreigners were reaping the benefits of our legislation, for which they thanked the Hon. Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire. In conclusion, he trusted that his motion would at all events have the effect of showing the farmers out of doors, to whom they would have to look for assistance, and of exhibiting how gentlemen who had come to that House pledged to protect native industry had for feited their pledges. Of this he felt assured, that if the Noble Lord at the head of the Government would retrace his policy in favour of that interest which had stood by so many Governments in times gone by—if he would give protection to all classes alike, and hold out some hope for the future, he could appeal with a clearer conscience for the blessing of Pro vidence on the councils over which he had so long pro sided.—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Member concluded by moving, " That this House will resolve itself into a Com mittee of the whole House, to take into consideration the Acts relating to the importation of foreign corn." Colonel DUNNE seconded the motion. Mr. HAS TIE (Paisley) bad heard no grounds kid by the lion. Member for West Gloucestershire which should justify the House in acceding to his proposal; o❑ the contrary, he had only heard that which was going the round of all the newspapers in the country—broad assertion without data. He admitted that vt the pre sent moment, as for some six months past, the price of corn had been very low, but he denied that it had been lower than during a long period under protec tive laws. Until the price of corn should have been at a lower price under free trade than under the protective system, and for a longer period, he contended there was no grounds for the proposed inquiry. But whenever it should happen that for three consecutive years the price should be lower than under protection, and the farmers showed that they bad been ruined in consequence-- (Laughter)—he should be willing to grant a Committee such tag that now asked for. Now, with regard to the importation of (,reign corn ; he believed it would be found, that taking the ruling price of corn for the last half-century in those corn-growing countries which competed with us, it would be impossible for the ports of the Baltic or America to compete with us lower than at 455. per quarter for wheat, and other grain in proportion. From America, in its present state, he did not think this country need fear the importation of corn at less than 455. Taking for the last twenty years the average price of wheat in New Orleans, the cheapest wheat port in America, it would be found to be not below 345. or 355. a quarter, and it could not be imported to this country under 455. In times of scarcity at home, no doubt, im portations must take place from abroad; but he felt satis fied that country gentlemen would not think of weighing the injury done to the farmers with the boon con ferred on the great bulk of the population in such periods of scarcity. The only difference between the manufac turers and the agriculturists was, that the former adapted themselves more to the altered circumstances which might surround them, and employed superior skill. But whether there was protection or not, there would be complaints of agricultural distress. From 1832 to 1835 such complaints had been rife. He denied the allegations of the Hon. Mover, that our agriculturists were competing with untaxed growers of corn; for France, from which our largest supplies came, was taxed very nearly as high as England. The large sup ply from that country last year might be accounted for partly on account of an abundant harvest, partly on ac count of the desire of the growers, in the present politi cal aspect of affairs, to realise capital. The real injury to the farmers was inflicted by the landlords themselves, who told them that they could not cum pete with the foreigners, and were believed.—(Hear, hear.) When this idea had been forced into the minds of the farmers, it was not an easy matter to dispossess it. But believing that free-trade measures had not had the injurious effect attributed to them, but that at the present moment the poor were better clad and fed, and were more fully employed than at any former period; and, moreover, that the charges upon land were less than they had formerly been, he regarded the present motion as uncalled for and unnecessary, Colonel SIBTHORP ridiculed the recommendation of the Hon. Gentleman who bad just sat down, that the farmers should wait until they were ruined before they preferred their complaints, and denied that free trade had produced the good effects claimed for it. With re gard to the present proposal, he thought you might as well attempt to get blood out of a mill - stone as justi ce out of a Committee of the House of Commons as at pre sent constituted.—(Laughter.) It would have been better if the Hon. Member for West Gloucestershire had recommended a dissolution of Parliament and a change of Ministry. Who were to take the place of the present Ministry he knew not. The Government had been bad enough before; it was not much b etter now. They were, in sootb, a previous lot altogether. A dissolution would at all events preclude those who had broken their pledges to their constituents from again seeking the House of Commo ns as an asylum and place of refuge.—(Loud laughter.) H e believed that the Noble Lord at the head of the Governmnet was not in disposed to assist the agricultural interest, but that h e shrunk from perilling his adm i nistration by so doing. The advice ho (Colonel Sibthorp) should give to th e agriculturists was to agitate and to register, and if th at insulted body adopted that advice he felt no doubt as to the result. Mr. PLUMPTRE confessed that he had failed to de rive one jot of consolation from the prophecy of the Honourable Member for Paisley (Mr. Ilastie) that corn from America could not be imported here under 45i. a quarter. It was a downright delusion and fallacy to make such an assertion, for he (Mr. Plumptre) had heard that there were illimitable tracts of land in America which would be made to supply corn at a much cheaper rate. The Honourable Member had also recommended that the language of encouragement and not of despair should be addressed to the agricultural interest, and had supp ose d a s i m il a rity betwcsn the conditi ons o f agri culture and manufactures, when, in fact, there was dis similarity. He was sorry the Governmen thld not held ou t to those who we re confessedly now in great distre ss , an d appreh e ndi ng s till more, any ground of hop e f or t h e future; encouragement, and to t e tell them, t o u s e more energy, th capital and skill,e had n o p rospect of was only adding insult to injury. The maxim of the Government appeared to be, " Perish agriculture; MA Y 15, 1850. flourish Manchester!" An immense mass of the rural population were suffering acutely; and, therefore, he was not surprised that they sometimes gave vent to strong language. These' people were not naturally disloyal or impatient of control; but they could not understand, in the midst of their anxiety and inability to obtain employment, why the foreigner should be fa voured whilst the loyal and industrious labourer was neglected at home. These very natural feelings of the rural population ought net to be overlooked by her Majesty's Ministers; and he could state, as a practical farmer, that the continuance of the free-trade system must prove most injurious, if not ruinous, to the agri cultural interests of the country. Mr. SLANEY held views rather differing from those entertained by gentlemen on both sides of the House. He thought it would have been better if a moderate fixed duty on corn had been maintained, as an equivalent for the undue burdens of local and general taxation borne by agriculture. That would also have been a convenient mode of raising a part of the revenue. But after the long struggle and the ultimate settlement of the corn-law that had taken place, he hold that the present experi ment ought to be tried for some time longer. He attri buted the present depression of agriculture to extraordi• nary and transitory causes, such as a season of unpa ralleled productiveness throughout all the corn-growing countries of Europe, which was not likely soon to occur again. He was not over sanguine in his anticipa tions; he believed there would yet be very great distress throughout the country, and whether or not the energies of the British people would carry them over their difficulties without a return t a protective policy, he was not able to predict. Yet he advised the agricultural interest to lay aide their agitation for protection, and endeavour to remove the shackles and impediments to the success of their industry and enterprise arising from the complexity of title and the costliness of conveyance; and he was sure if they looked to the amelioration of the social condition of the mass of the people, they would find that if the great cities of the country prospered, it was impossible for the landed interest not to flourish also. He admitted the prevalence of distress in some of the rural districts. but thought very little of it extended to the peasantry. —(Hear, hear.) Certainly, in some of the southern counties where abuses of the poor-law used to obtain, the distress had reached the labouring classes; but in the northern counties wages had not been reduced in proportion to the reduction in the price of the necessaries of life, and he understood the peasantry were as well, it not better off now than they used to be.—(Divide.) For the reasons he had stated, in all sincerity, he did not be lieve the present causes of agricultural distress were of a permanent character; but if that distress continued un abated until the next session, he for one should be pre pared to reconsider the present system of commercial policy, with the view to establishing a fixed duty on corn as an equivalent, but no more than an equivalent, for what might be found, on inquiry, to be the peculiar burdens on land. The Marquis of GRANBY said he was not surprised at the present motion, because there was a reaction of feeling against free trade amongst persons of all classes and professions in the country.—(Hear, hear.) The tenantry of the country, one and all, declared that it was impossible ti cultivate the land under the present prices for agricultural produce. But if the case of the farmers of England was bad that of the same class in the sister island was still orse—(Eiear. hear)—and it would have been much better if the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, instead of lowering the franchise to the level of the distressed condition of the people, ha 1 endeavoured to raise the people to the level of the franchise.—(Hear, hear.) But the evil was not confined to the tenant-farmers. The agricultural labourers came in for their share. It was no wonder, then, that the labouring classes were beginning to feel the effect of their free-trade measures, and to perceive that cheap ness did not always mean plenty, and that competition did not mean prosperity.—(Hear.) He believed that the labourers in the manufacturing districts were coming round to the same opinion. The Hon. Gentleman who last addressed the House said that the prosperity of the landed interest depended on the prosperity of manufac tures. lie (the Marquis of Granby) admitted that, but he maintained that the converse of that proposition was equally true, that the prosperity of manufactures depended on the prosperity cf agriculture. The manufacturers were beginning to find that the home market was not only the largest, but the most important and secure. It was said that the price of corn was rising, and that a better state of things might be expected. Why, it was only in the Times of that day he read that the average price of wheat for the week ending May the 4th was only 365. el throughout the country.—(Hear.) Under such a state of things, of what advantage was it to the farmers of the country that the price rose sixpence one week, and a shilling another?—(Hear.) But was it not the object of free trade to make provisions as eheap as possible?—(hear) The Noble Lord admitted the fact of distress, but he led them to hope that at some distant and imaginary period prices would rise; so that the defence of free trade now set up by the Government was that at some future day it would be inoperative.—(Hear, heat.) His Hon. Friend had been tauntel for not bring ing forward this question himself; but from the present spirit of the House of Commons, and from the tone and temper of the Government since the commencement of the session, when the first insult had been offered to the agricultural interest to the moment when the Noble Lord gave hie answer to the deputation which recently waited upon him, his Hon. Friend had no right to suppose that that House would sanction any alteration of the present system, more especially when it was remembered bow the moderate proposition of his Hon. Friend for'eharg ing the consolidated fund with a portion of the poor rate, and that of the Hon. Member for Orrordshire (Mr. Henley) had been received.—(Hear, hear.) He rested his reliance for the reversal of their present policy not on the decision of that House, but on the force of public opinion out of doors.—(Hear.) Sir B. HALL said, if it were possible to suppose that a person, nut a Member of that Houle, could come there that evening and ask what the subject under discussion was, and be told it was the great anti important question of the corn-laws, about which so much had been heard and said outside that House, he (Sir B. Hall) thought that individual would be very much astonished at the little interest manifested within these walls on the subject; and probably if that same stranger—whom it was impos sible to suppose present—should be asked on which side the Protectionist Members sat, he might, drawing his own conclusions, reply that they sat on the right of the ' chair and not on the left.—(Laughter.) The majority in the House that evening sat on the right of the chair; and therefore it might be supposed that those who took an interest in the matter had come down in large numbers to support tho agricultural in terest, then more or less involved in the motion before them, and which emanated from that side of the House also.—(hear, hear.) But let them go further. He (Sir B. Hall) had sat there during the whole of the debate ; and observed that during the addresses of the three last speakers—particularly that of the Noble Marquis who represented to a great extent the agricultural interest in the midland counties—the largest number at the oppo sition side of the House amounted to 27, and fluctuated between that and 17.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore was it net a perfect farce for these lion. Gentlemen during, the recess to go amongst their constituents, stimulating them to opposition, and styling themselves "the farmers' friends," yet, when the question came to be decided within the walls of Parliament, out of a body of be tween 200 and 300 Protectionist Members who affaeted to advocate the interests of their deluded followers—(llear, hear)—not more than from 17 to 27 lion. Gentlemen were found in their places.—(Hear, hear.) If the Members of the Manchester school had adopted that course out of the Howe, and had not the moral courage to bring forward their propositions and take the sense of Parliament on them; they (the Pro tectionist Members) would have lavished their censure on them, and demanded of them why they went abroad stimulating the minds of the public, making them dis satisfied, and yet, though affecting to be the friends of the people, fearing to bring the question at issue before the sense of Parliament.—(Hear.) The Noble Marquis who had just addressed the House expressed his gratifi cation at the fact that the first political wave broke from the Ministerial side of the House. Well, the farmers out of doors had long been looking for the bursting of a wave from the opposite aide, but could never succeed in seeing even a ripple, so that they should hold themselves indebted to an lion. Member on the Ministerial side fur ,; , frording an opportunity to bring forward the question.—(Hear, hear.) What he (Sir B. Hall) then said he spoke not alone for the House, but also for those outside its walls; because he considered it a farce and a mummery for Hon. Gentlemen to go amongst their constituents and get up a clamour, and then allow three years of a Parliament to pass over without ever endeavouring to bring forward the ques tion.—(Hear, hear.) Ho thought a man making an as sertion outside that House should at least have the moral conrage to fulfil his word.—(Hear, hear.) Now, let them look at the position of the metropolitan Mem bers, who, being anxious to repeal the window -tax, con sequently brought forward a motion to that effect every session. —(Hear.) The Protectionist Members, on the contrary, went amongst their friends and supporters as suring them they would advocate the renewal of the corn laws. Yet session after session went over, and the ques tion was never brought forward. The case of the Hon. Gentleman was somewhat similar to that of the re peelers of the legislative union, in fact, pari passe. The repeaters of the legislative union professed that repeal was everything with them; but yet, strange to say, they never brought it forward.—(Hear. hear.) In 1833 it certainly had been brought forward; but, between that period and 1848, there was a single Conciliation Hall Member found to bring it forward?—(Hear, hear.) In 11148 the question of repeal: was brought on by a gen tleman representing an English borough, and who was at perfect variance with the repealer'. The case of the Protectionist gentleman was precisely similar.—( , N o , no," from the Opposition benches.) Well, what had they done? Would they rouse the people without an object, a definite object?—(Hear, hear.) What was that object but to amend the laws?—(Hear, hear.) Where could they be amended sinless on the floor of that House by argument and plain speaking; and if they intended to amend them otherwise why not say so? That House was the proper place for discussion; and the question was then brought on for discussion, not by the consent of lion. Gentlemen opposite, but because it was forced upon them from the Ministerial side of the House.— (Hear, hoar, and No, no.) Now they could not deny this fact, that when the question was brought for ward that evening they could not muster more than twenty-seven Members; and if Hon. Meml era on his (Sir B. Hall's) side of the House chose to walk out, lion. Members opposite would have the House counted, so that they should be thankful to gentlemen Bitting on the Ministerial benches for keeping a House for them,— (Laughter, and " Hear, hear.") He would not then enter into the question beyond saying that they would have an opportunity of testing the votes of Hon. Gentle men opposite; and he hoped when these gentlemen would tell their constituents in future that they were prepared to bring forward this great and important question they would do so in reeity, and not. leave to an Hon. Member on the Ministerial benches the perform. ance of so important a duty.—(Hear, ar.) Mr. MILES said the Hon. Baronet who had just sat down assumed much to himself, and pleased to draw a compariso❑ between Hon. Members who advocated pro tection and those who supported a repeal of the legisla tive union. Now, he wished to know why the Hon. Ba ronet had never attacked the repeal question until after the originator of that question had been removed from the House of Commons?—(" Hear, hear," frcm the Ode position benches.) No, the Hon. Baronet preferred wait ing until the originator of that question had succumbed to disease and ceased to be a Member of that House; and then it was that he stepped in and derided Hon. Members for Ireland for not having brought forward the question.—(Hear, hear.) The question of the corn-laws was argued in 1846, since when a ❑ew Par liament had been returned in fevour, he would admit. of free-trade principles.—(" Hear, hear," from the Mi• niaterial benches.) There was no doubt that the decision of the country was in favour of free trade— (Hear, hear)— but they shiauld wait for a re-action, and it was quickly coming. —(Oh oh, and Hear, hear ) The Hon. Baronet had taunted the opposite side of the House because no proposition had etuanwed from it for a restoration of pro ection to agriculture; but he could tell him that whenever a motion should emaciate from that side of the House it w :uld include a recurrence to the full and entire system of protective duties, which he and Hon. Gentlemen on his side believed to be nor alone advantageous, but absolutely necessary to the wel fare of the British people.—( Hear, hear.) The time was not distant when the watchword would be, " Bide your time, and trust in ut"—(Laughter)—and he doubted not that in the next Parliament they would come forward with an amended ciinstituency a, well as a large majority in that Howe to re-adjust the dis organised and disrupted interests of the country. Mr. MITCHELL said the best proof that could be given of the well working of the corn-law repeal was the benefit that the operative classes experienced by the change.—(Hear, hear.) The consumption of bread stuffs had increased one-third; and if wages fell in pro portion to the price of food, who consumed the increase? By the repeal of the corn-laws they had enabled the working people to consume ono•tbird more bread than heretofore, and so far the working cusses were per manently benefited.—(Hear, hear.) Now he thought that was the very highest tribute that could ba paid free trade; and he believed it was one of the causes that kept England tranquil during the late continental out breaks.—(Rear, hear.) In the corn trade he had heard of attempts made to induce the farmers to sacrifice their property : and in several cases they had submitted to low prices, for which they might thank the language employed by their organ (the Marh-lane Express) and the harangues and incentives of the leaders of their party.—(Hear, hear.) He was certain that these gentlemen had induced the farmers to part with their grain some 3s. or 4s. a quarter less than it would bring within the last fortnight, in which time he had observed an increase of some ss. per quarter had taken place. His own impression was, that instead of a re-adieu taking place, the prices, as the weather improved, would ad vance to 455. a quarter for wheat, which was an excel lent price for farmers to sell at.—(Hear, hear, and No, no.) Indeed, he had no doubt that 455. per quarter were equal to 60a. per quarter in former days, considering the altered prices in other ex.: ides of con sumption—meat, sugar, and so forth.—(Hear, hear.) He was glad to see the Hon. Member for Wakefield in his place, as he wished to allude to a matter that had reference to him. He understood that Hun. Gentleman had purchased 1,000 quarters of wheat, which he said was Stettin, at a certain price which appeared to be ex ceedingly low for such an article. Now he (Mr. Mitchell) understood that it was not Stettin wheat but Pomeranian or e,icilian, which accounted for the low cost of the arti cle, including shipment to this country.—(Laueliter.) Mr. G. SANDARS, who rose amid teseewed laughter, said the Hon. Gentleman opposite had charged him with having by his statements caused an undue depreciation i❑ the prices of corn in the agricultural districts of the country. He said then as he said formerly, that his only object was to give information to that House, and to lay a true statement of the facts before the House and the country. The Hon. Gentleman had referred to a pur chase of Stettin wheat, and alluded to it as though it were a single and solitary transaction. But if he looked to the correspondence in the various newspapers of the period he would find not only was it not a solitary tran saction, but that several merchants of Mark-lene bought at the same and even at lower prices than he did.— (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had also referred to the grain as being of inferior quality. He believed the Hon. Gentleman did not deal extensively in corn, or that ho could tell the difference between Silesian and Pomeranian wheat if placed before him.— (Laughter, and Oh, oh.) The order which he (Mr. Sanders) sent out, was for the best Stettin wheat, of 61 to 621bs. to the bushel, and he would leave it to Honourable Gentlemen to say if that description should not be regarded as the very best. The order was ex ecuted with great satiefaction, and the prices at Wake field market, about the period of the arrival of that corn, were from 375. to 38s. But the Hon. Gentleman had said that in consequence of the policy of tree trade being carried out consumption had increased by one-third. Never was there a more preposterous statement made. He should like to ask the Hon. Gentleman from *hence this extra one-third had come? It wa• tree that in 1849 we imported largely—we imported 5,600,000 quar ters of wheat; but the Hon. Gentleman forgot tha„ the harvest of 1848 was unusually defective, and it would requ►re two or three millions of quarters at least to make up the deficiency; and if they took into conside ration the large quantity exported to Ireland that year, instead of our importing from that country as usual, another million of quarters might be accounted for; and to this the wheat brought into consumption in conse quence of the failure of the potato crop, and the whole five or six millions was made up.— (Cheers from the Free-trade party.) We imported this large etnount of wheat not to supply extra consumption, but t i make up the deficiency which had arisen from these causes.---(" Hear, hear," from the same Reny.) The I - ion. Gentleman then proceeded to quote returns of the price of wheat at the various Europea❑ and Ameri can cor❑ exporting ports, to show that the average price at which corn could be shipped abroad was much lower than had been stated by the previous speaker (Mr. Mit chell). An authority which was regarded as a text book by the Free-traders, had stated that 525. 2d. was the just average price of wheat, and what the farmer got more than that was so much gain to him, and what be got less so much loss.—(Herr, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman to whom he alluded (Mr. Wilson) also said that it was quite erroneous to suppose that free trade would reduce the price of food, but, on the contrary, would tend rather to increase it by raising the prosperity of the country and increasing the demand; but there was no symptom of that prediction being verified. With re spect to the motion before the Reuse, he was iu some .difficulty what course to take. He could not agree that it was wise to bring on the question at this tme for dia cussion.—(Hear.) He understood the Hon. Mover (Mr. G. Berkeley) to say that free trade had now been tried three years, and that that was sullicient to test its-suc cess or failure. The Hon. Gentleman mast, however, remember that although the Act passed in 1846 it did -not come into operation until 1849.—(Heir.) lip to that time the law was a sliding scale, ranging from 10s. downwards; so that instead of three years, the present law had only been in operation fifteen mouths. He ad mitted that he had promised at the hustings to give free trade a fair trial, and as he could not consider that such fair trial hal yet been allowed, he did not see how he could vote for this motion. Much had been said in the course of the debate of the low prices of 1833; but there was this great and wide difference between that year and the present—it was-true the price of wheat did not vary much in the two years, but in all other agri cultural produce there was a wide difference-in favour of the year 1635. The average price c-f wheat in 1835 was 395. 4d. The present average—that was the average of the last six weeks—was 375. Bd.; but of barley the aver age in 1835 was 295. l Id. against 225. 9d. now.—(" Hear" from the agriculturists.) The price of ea's in 1835 was 225. ld.; it was now 15a. In rye, peas, beans, and other produce, there was a similar falling off in the present prices as compared with those of 1835. Again, it muss be recollected that the year preceding 1835 had been one of general abundance, and the low prices were conse quent on that abundance—but now we had low prices following deficient harvests. With regard to the price o - Stettin whet, he could tell the lion. Member for Britt port that purchases had been made at a lower rate than that which had been quoted. The Hun. Gentleman then quoted a latter from a Free-trader, stating that a ss. fixed duty would be fair to the farmer, and would not press more heavily on the consumer than the present nominal duty of Is. He was anxious the House should consider what might be the result of free trade with a deficient harvest, when we might have to look to foreign countries for, perhaps, one-third of our whole supplie , . Four-fifths of all our imports last year came from Euro pean ports, and let it once bo known that we were wholly dependent upon them fur so large a proportion of the food of our people, and they would take care that we paid high enough for it.—(Hear, hear.) He would sew goat that some alteration should be made in the mode of taking the averages. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by quoting a return, showing that under the sch and 6th of Victoria, we imported in two years 400,000 vartera of wheat which paid 20s. duty. and that the average price must then have been about 50s. per quarter. Mr. WILSON remarked that the Hun. Gentleman who had just sat down had done him the honour to refer to the opinion he had expressed in 1840 with respect to a 525. average as the average price for seven year 4 pre ceding. Now, it would not have been fair in 1835 to have quoted the price of that year as an average. I. the year 1835, the price of wheat was under 40s. for 36 weeks, and the average price of wheat under 40s in 1849, was but for •16 weeks. The present time must, however, be considered an exceptional period, and the price of corn for the last few months could not be, there fore, taken as the probable average price for any length ened space. The Hon. Gentleman fat quoted from several letters to prove that the price of corn ranged lower now than at any period preceding; but he (Mr. Wilson) had also letters in his posses.ion which show« d that in every great market on the continent of Europe the price of wheat had risen within the last fortnight from Is. to 2s. 6d. It was, however, a remarkable circum- stance that the Honourable Gentleman had quoted prin cipally hom letters dated the 9th of April—trom none Ist-r than th• 15th. Then, with respect to home prices, the authorities and quotations of the Hon. Gentleman were at least three weeks old. He (Mr. Wilson) held in his hand a return received that day from some of the largest markets in the kingdom for the last four weeks, and they showed a different result. At Canterbury, for instance, four weeks since wheat was 38s. 7d.; last week, however, it was 40s the quarter. At Lincoln, four weeks ago, it was 375., while last week it was 395. Bd.; and he bad in his possession a letter from a large grower in Berkshire, in which it was stated that a fortnight previously the writer could get no more than 40e. for his best wheat, whereas last week he easily ob- ---------— tow trailed 449. The Hon. Gentleman ha d alluded I, .. , 0 ,, ,node of taking the averages. It was, hovrevei.l;:ic important to consider the great questio n under of to its general teat ings than to consider it in its selffL dual action; and therefore he should co nfine bin ,Jet that form of disco-sing it. He was made tc vot tc with the Hon. Gentleman opposite that there aa_s tinef ie the country at this rnorneat that universal P ro kee which every Hon. Member on either side of we e , ' er would wish ; but then the re was this worelcril 'tit tinction between the suffering undergone D"' i rrlf l r underwent in former times—thet whereas form, oof `b e ruff ring was all cenfire d to the working porticoievel population, the poor, at press nt it was felt s 0 A the higher and middle classes.—(Loud cries t OO 0 no," and "Hear, hear.") An Hon. Gen Beet other side of the House said that the elee' t r i t h e 0 9 ' 1 all, would have to be settled on the ground T o OW rests of the working classes ; on that gretin".eitO Wilson) was willing to meet it, and to ii! t . Is, test of the condition of that class to its; settler:l,3;o,o;e January last, long before the Hon. Member,:Gerefs' shire had made his motion on the subject, 9 I i n retur s '' rnent had laid upon the toile of the /lou se cert s o isoe el untry fut showing the state of pauperism in the whole cr the first week of the present year , in cernP s ore I .he similar period in the three precedieg o Y e eer, t h i , s , Noble Lord in the other House suspecting , h° ,,,le t° , t h " rbese returns were of a nature too fae° ll : d die of e f Government, moved for returns for them ` eafe eer °„ pest quarter. These returns showed the ;of le paupers receiving out-door relief and . n' cloo end il l England and Wales in the middle of Febrio r l ) :' o f the' was the result. In the corresponding 'Yee I. years there were:— tr, ts Out-door Paupers. In-door PauPerg' 90 3.0 0 1847 ... 729,000 ~. 179,000 e* eese,, 1848 ... 824,000 169.000 ••• 943e'v" 1849 ... 784,000 ... 159,000 e• seleuv:,o 1850 ... 748,000 ... 142,000 e w heet " o f So that in the vaunted year of 1848, Vi be° D umb er ; 0 0 1003. per quarter, there ware a far greste r d de preit e i paupers than in the present year of allege otintreii,j and distrese, and the total pauperism of t tl ei e a otie ° tt been reduced from 993,000 to 890,000. . o ° 4 et t oe deny, therefore, that whoever were suff erl e i e ee il l moment from the change that had takes e ra c ai , i . fl commercial policy of this country, the Ptold bi ll were not those persons. They had be en t he 09,4 Honourable Member (Mr. G. Berkeley) Ili: preiii c t ;:e was disappointed of that immediate prnsPei o pou ll , ,t by the Free-traders.—(Hear.) Coul d ithi P t e Members overlook one of the great callsel d they t he this moment affected the middle classes? CI 6 for as discover one great cause iu the years e t otti ee :ol l tier, and m a mischief.Ha had been told thc"."-, IT ele O° ;WI the rest Lincolnshire , tus l Well not name a person who had not suffered p fd O A ° 0 speculations.—(Oh, oh; no, no.) . Mind 1 19 e p e 01 0 '4 r c s h i a i r w g s e ys tb ; e agricultural classes with havi t S gr ee lie ste s rf or short all thheegwreaasta to w w ar n e s t i h n a t t h L e i va t h o e vi V re i i;; l3 :s o o o more, engaged in the same kind of 9 e l ) , e , e t " - teeng", o o l were those in agricultural counties ! Beat 'Se might be so, it was impossible to blind thei ll i s bet I" 1 9 fist that this was one of the great causes of tr ade' er ing which had been wholly charged to ithe 'etec'iett had been furnished by the Secretary of t hers ,fe' change with this statement :—ln 18 40 r ' ee eo 'lee 147,000 men employed on railroads. A t E r e . (i ree s e e were only 45,000 men—so they had 100 ''' ti n. 0 employed now than before, owing the t ' r° of the construction of railways £ l o n " d 4°ll lire' 1 81 6 1 , 11 0 ° 0 0, 0 nine main lines, which had expended 51 elrjt 0 ° l ti 4 I which had an income of 2.700,0001. In 51 1 850 tee s lines had expended 102,000,0004, and thei f hp l-- / be ;to 2,200,0001., being 500 000/. less than when fe h - e, eel" iota expended 51,000,000/. Therefore it mig bC ea* 0' ~i,"011 r,_ ,e , 51.000,0001. had been recently expended "ee l 0 P 6 - ,1[3 3 " absolutely unproductive. This alone oeg"'ee e eitig"ll.o clueive reason for a great portion of that In" The or which the country was now labouring' inebee,o Gentleman (Mr. Sanders) alluded to the dr h Jest i l le° portation of grain in this 'ecmpared e 4t- e fie 4 ' o o Nothing could more strikingly show the hene 'bets ill trade. The lion. Member told the Ilcu s pa e eenAll harvest was defective in 1838, and in CO is— a f f'reo had an importation of 5,510.000 quarterstrde eel corn. Why, what other object bad fe e hart e3 ,. this ? Then the Hon. Gentleman said th e el e°- f ri l year had been larger, and the importatioes free!!ire quently fallen off. This was the very Ate,. ie , 'sought to accomplish —to equalise the sca ld ill f 41( trade did that it attained the object it - fl e eist ed ell They had been asked what evidenc e Three 2,,00 increased consumption durin the list , - 6 1 t'lle S He found during the last six g months that 'fill 1,000,000 more quarters had been i t° Pb ° e . ci tilt l),, in the corresponding period last Yesi r '„,,,. ptic gi Alti r i d n u e r r i e n a g s ed t h . O i The sst bix months of home-grown wheat taken into con s " - o boe' qu arter s be e t i Ot e been taken into consumption than during tiotle,t o ; ponding six months of the previous yea r ' en el s';, e e e e 1in,26h9i5,0701(..i°139 ril°re rlf bers and other parties, from their own Per s— e reer e r i lv tions, and from inquiries of bakers, hav e e „ a pl e s',ole, th,d, a larger consumption of bread had tss a e, -- 0 , ,,, ,,, year compared with former times. b e , '', - ieb ', I ! man (Mr. Berkeley) had stated that the Di i rolle, ll ;heP would be undermined by the United States' ae 0 1 ;4' his hand an account of the sale of four carg%esec',isli from America. The accounts were genuine tr it e e re"pi not hypothetical calculations. The cargol, ,bel6' 51 bushels each; the loss on the voyage was 357 h t1 ed i°. 1 111 , 4 ( cost of bringing the wheat here and the lossaed Of 0 7 car sglf(rorn,d, u itw e th s ch, w ii tuu a el per quarter to the selling price. The reselt: d ece", ° e: sthameper.icNeoatwkbeY the 'l4.- 'l4' °' York ° ,: r ioV,l l ,ls t. be S s o o , let adding the cost of ; 0 9 ; i cie ei ot e l per quarter. The c a i t rc a um p s r t o a fi ne t e b s er h ae a li t 'o° ,, (° t e:r i s w 6 o s tild account for the fact that at the Pr eile • S e eio r ' fl. ur was no less than 30. per barrel dearer l i ° l e tre , ' leans than at Liverpool. The four cargoe s ti , 3 . eii ii , ce l( lll 4 , los*. One cergo the cost was 9351.; 03 9 51' 04v lit 714/ ; so the loss was 2211. The s econd i c Av oP; 4551.; the third 237/.; and the fourth 2 S S 'earl dige st Members must further bear in mind in t 9 Ag ra eel" scii❑wheat. infhneeeodaatrl nearly States, tea wheat was bought in America when prices:, feie ft than now, and sold here at a time when, t " a - e t s it i ' e t c illj 4s. higher. If then, the present prices did e - ie e tl7 o`", WAS his belief that we should see a considetvotehtere of wheat shipped from Eng!and for the eO ri f ° Jeng ee 'et the people of the United States. (Roars °• 0 sie f ite Hon. Members laughed; but we hid don e ~,"e r e efe l though lion. Members did not seem to be 9 d ol , ),e0 fact. The Hon. Member (Mr. Saunders) „ i llee,, ) ee:, 1 to taking the averages of the last ten or t "hon'to i v 1 He could not understand why this objection 6 b ol - orl arid why the Hon. Member should wish tog ° no l l P . ' 1 year 1825. The Hon. Member was. perhee'tfeee'crt that the condition and character of the e° l -then i n te; very much changed of late years. 'ln the, ; ea r ed E . , winces, fur instance, which once produceu ;n - oref P- Q t ,": CGTD, there was now no surplus, owing to — ijorP a r% puldtion and increased menufacturea. Thee,3ool; It j ' e tleman saie, under free trade we should st'e o lie t " el f , - duction, and so we should h ave i n creased s j i `won'',6 abroad. If they gave higher prices thel,d o oqole he increased eireign cultivatione' but this Fp s ' t he 9 / L efr, if higher prices were not gion. Ifso, th e " mt vo r !,re,` / : ' the data on which he had based his eideticbiers'', te e. i ' l last ten or twelve 3 ears were correct; and rigiPo'',o less you increased your prices, you had 13 `,ci 009,00,„e Feet increased importations. All he l ee wooO— P - o f P - d , was a most unfair, a most unwise thing for bad - -0" ~,,i d r es attempt to say that the experience we 1- 00 'Vete r e ( trade presented a satisfactory solution of t " to ' r ee f - , He denied this was so. He was not cont e° , e ge,f,,lf s f years 1848-49 as a fair criterion of the av e- ne rn`, - f er", t i w n h h a e l a t t n i e n y distress, w t e future, nraet at when hf the w working y they esr s asgacolwa:_sse(wssili.et)kereleisiffijoeobeonee'o,v l'ioirie:s:ie,e; bers did not pay regard to returns, he -- e t est-, of d , criterion by which the question could h e re on'olfrif returns from the poor-law unions, which: v : l .o l 4f , te control or influence of Government, an t ! ^ b r ‘ e 1 . 09 c o thorities, were the authorities on whic'e m - b e e P a ." t . ,! 3„/ any better could be produced, hew o °'",reli - t rj e; r adopt them; but till that was done he tausveteee f ir l o we had. *Whatever might be the defects e ,;3 IV,: of 1 1 whatever the consequences which bed tic icr- a of ti `" l' e pric e s — still he maintained lir3g P e 1)11' the vror 1 0 , kingdom were better off in e et tic very !lope fe r 0 ° O s were in former times. ' - A b e e o L f Mr. HERRIES said that the d hst- e t r ° eme debate ,I come lif ed / tile in admissions, he hoped they woul- s o n , f $ 1) 1 , common agreement on the subject. Th e f ete g fro t e i r 'i (Mr. Haetie) said that if the present s o ° 0 Or , continued for three years he would b,,, ec , ° 61 0 : 1 e t i ti a ' tionist, while another Hon. Member ( f r o f 0 ;4 0 ,4 he would have objected to the rePe, 9 `, e o sea s h , e ero,. laws, on the ground that aprotective uo'i o f Woo 0 for the agricultural interest, by roast, 100 4 ,0 1 burdens to which it was subjected. V ilu Yeet e . reel very essence of protection.—(Cheere.) i t he,eeei the climed, namely an indemnification ° lest 'oosse k It burdens The Hon. Gentleman who sr - t b e et, 9 ore he re into a very elaborate statement to 811°11r woul t p d es t h Y the t4,mes were now depressed, the'', i ,. r e d cei o f better', by which he meant better Pri k e ,: a yea ,00 4 0 1 ever such inconsistency, seeing that t ,"„" eora fe rn!",e o of those who advocated a free trade "4, 0 o°„'o ol ' a ir prices and abundance of food. Tha t "be peer 4 11 should withhold their consent to t ea e' e r') before ~the House, he confessed e' S fern; 1,1, 0 t prised, reeollecting as he did that ()n a l 111 0 , 0 5 morable occasion the Noble Lord of 6. v)ir, del fjor d I of the Government proposed a fixed f 4 , 0 1 gob e his 1 ,0 answer given upon the subject by the - w e V n ble' 11, r delegates . who recently waited on him il l ; P . :" o # , ire Herries'e) opinion, wholly inconclusive. oicie rat a , l o ele e e said that witheut going into other e° 11 „, t hat " I „,he i r` e e posing the price of corn to he 585., a la ta t t en;„ 0 ,ie; duce the average to 50e. would be we' e ld reis"red the, if the price were 429., the law which wo - oe ob e c iati r e 425. to 50s. would be ill taken. But he ed r o u 10 ' fo lr elf the Noble Lord at the time he proposonly 0 00 ° lice mitted his opinion to be that 5 65. , W i lttir i 6t3l3 obi IC / 1 muuerating price for corn. The ag rle e be o e t en t ili s demanded 503. Why then should they to t 0 0 ,0 tit r ? to relieve the agricultural intere st t° baj oe th e raise the price of corn to 505., being 63 ' As O r 00 ° 0° Noble Lord admitted was a fair price. , ot elle e at es seet law being only an experiment, he the' tonibeesti. from this propoeition. Almost froen eats r d Act e es, sr Act came into force its deplorable _, the 'bee; visible upon the agricultural ieterestste' :rieiteotoev, w o o f o 1 e All that was now done wee, teture,,, 0 , to confide in the prophecies 0 , A to u.,',0 1 , b .,,r but he, for oue, was certainly indispose' , too de l e nark,' e 1 cause the vast prophecies of the same e_ oo m ar she s i te fulfilled. He believed there were n° co re ) o; in oor , 1 pointed with the results of tree trade e ._...( 9 r on.; advocates , f the measures theense lv - 0 in ° ot ' el' a perm ) ~f r e e te ,ielt o f believed also that 'hoe was "t office who, if he could have foreseen te e _ l . t he `;_, o 4 ourage, or .., r 00; measure, would have had the c s eor , e e e," , : the r edo 00 ncNe, to have supported it. W r.,0 its operation the prices of egriculeur% 0 p 4 ore W S fallen 20, 25, aye, 30 per cent.