The Sun. — London, England, 1850-05-24 00:00:00

but sfcteeir-----ved the first overture of France •.vith coldness; he accepting the good offices of France for the ii of the business, was the conduct of the (...e -'erne ent to France straightforward, putting cordiality; !side? Ia the first place it was not cordial; in the next Nlt was not streightfore ard otherwise the catastrophe t sht not have occurred.—(Hear, hear.) I do not know what the Noble Lord thinks of this. Every night t N °ble Lord is informed by gentlemen around him 'at he is a Minister free from responsibility to Parlia gree4t- That almost makes a man believe that he is irre iP°ll'ible• The Noble Lord has been in office for the sli t four years, and I think he must have reflected on the di to occurrences of that period—her Majesty's Plenipotentiary kicked out of Spain—(Hear, hear) i — n n ext, the Austrian Ambassador disappears from ica(tiear)—suddenl the French Ambassador goes.— Lor o ((I sar Not sincelong; the waters of the Hellespont goes.— were disturbed, and even the Turkish Ambassador gets ltl addition nervous state.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) . rr b dl tion to this, nobody knows where the Russian A assador is at the present moment. We do not know Whe ther he is recalled, or whether he remains to adorn n whi c h society of which he is so great an ornament and e. ss he is so justly popular. The Noble Lord,. r - l'utcrabering all these remarkable diplomatic eir s c e i r i t m es ef le Fes, and that the Government had been in a diplomatic scrapes from the moment hetook office, no doubt felt f or , that the country was reconciled . to these un b fortunate c ontingencies by the recollection that our with u 8 n hbours in France were on the best terms th e l", and that, whatever were our differences with i b a. other powers of Europe, the French people had re dly_ °led, under every form of government, the cordi 1 tbe. England, —( Hear hear.) But, I think, when ceiyes;othblset our at the ' head of the Government per- Priei e late demonstration has succeeded in de • our s .g us of this sole compensation for the mischiefs of 0 ;`, otplo sieni 1, tu a°3', that even at this critical hour of seven ~ and n otwithstanding the silence of the other 1 4 ,_' be will rise and give us some assurance that we 'e yet one ally left.—(hear.) 4 1#3tcl J. RUSSELL—The observations which the col• G,eent!eman has just made . are the best proof that ter u u given of the wisdom of the advice of the Noble ci the Member for Hertford, that this question should p eruse be debated till Hon. Members had had time to b eb re se the papers laid on the table. If the Hon. Mem- Ptp e h ti had even a glimpse of the contents of . these rs 4 ° could hardly have fallen into the serious e •ora , • Th e „Watch have occurred in the course of his . speech• The r nourable Gentlenann expressed his suprise th a t . tioe °reign Secretary had not referred to the conver t i o th,,,..°f April. The object of the Noble Lord Lahittewsas that'ulthat the statement made by General 'at th at Pronsise made had been kept, was unfounded alludedconvention dated the Noble Lord has done. The co p iavne e n ks is dated t° b y the Honourable Member for G r s_ the 1 8th of April. On the 23d of April Baron went as that announcement to the Greek . Govern- IV e ttttd to Mr. Wyse, which, in the opinion of f M . Lio3e.BB,!,,easPended and put an end to for a time the u m nc r - . sl'),,,,v' fight negotiators. In that interpretat . kbl; be right or wrong. The argument . of the ecttie rd Was to show that he was right in havi i cot t p l e t° coercive measures. If he was justified .. n a g re th m a st t hav e e lt ' t , t is obvious that the convention of on April April n i a lve d at Athens toe late; for it fi was d o the 23d of ,i ° dee ision was come to, only vedays after the Na n the convention. The Hon. Member for Bucks shy ,tiot understand why the Noble Lord did not explain the bust conve ntion of the 18th of April did not conclude . 3 had b lts irless. If it had not appeared to us that Mr. Vys mad let' Mistaken with regard to Baron Gros'sannounce ,have st i Ito mistaken Greek Government, then stress would 14 au4 on the convention of April; but the statement tm t t 4 1e Precluded the necessity of laying any s . tre t s h s a u t p in. t er 4 e Mr. Wyse was right or wrong 4 crot tati ° 4 Will be matter for future argument. in The Hon. ! t , e gotise se emed to wonder that there should have been ` l4l a., -.°llB at Athens at all. From the first the ues• En g lish !100,,, Was to he settled at Athens, not by the • g r of skill: Tit by the French sending them a negotiato has. ieler'ea Prudence. The first thing the French am 4e ßor s ' e . n t tO this country did, was to agree T that the 130$kilLtl°4 be conducted at Athens. he pro tftcrpCitrried s into effect on the 18th of April was an ha, b'Ought of the French Ambassador, and would t ilte l l be ee h i l s bi ghlY useful if Baron Gros had not taken the . C alt hfar: u do ne, and would have concluded, probably in 4t ett., - ' °r Y Way, the settlement of the question. With ',lt,, Pr es .` r tn2 into any general discussion of the with respect h . ' th ex am anxious to say a few words . Tcte e `lPtanation I gave on a former occasion. Having i ll ! e i n i ga ged in attending a Committee till three o'clock. alsa d a • u t read the dispatch of General Lahitte. I had h `tasssg'neral statemet in the newspapers, that d t ts Pstelcu Minister of Foreign Affairs had written a not- e Ol the ee s et • ili ng M. Drouyn de l'Htsys, but I had . ri l lt the dispatch. What I had just come from reading ` his - '''snatch of Lord Normanby, giving an account the 44'1 e oneer s • • h General Lahitte. When . L lv 4t ,Gelllletuati°nwith opposite asked me the question tt ril'„4ll staatnemnt had been made, I could not dts. i,tt:h- L,,rlari state shortly the purport of that j e t th4l.,t- stated that, in consequence of the displeasure a. L'aty' `farerleh Government at the conduct of her M :laeB,, `-'overnltient respecting Greece, they had thought to i. 4 Y 1;:, 41 tY to recall their ambassador. I went . on . 'bl - ,' the French Minister for Foreign Affairs had t srti t ;° . Lord Normanby that the . return of M. Drolly•n ter as Must be considered as entirely natural, since, r e the be m ust sent here specially for the affair of Greece, b;tthcditnie,gotiation having failed,. his mission hail at 4 di s Le rraination. It is right I should state that t :tes tbt:,.te.ll received to-day from Lord Normanby, he - 4 'kl)i. -' though he believed General Lah . itte d to s h n av o t; ,kttolr,,e,4ed him- lf yet, as General Lahitte to'q'''' rtrekingbe' such a ' statement, he could not oe hold i ‘ r letell e eh Ir'° ' . such Minister to the words which he dispatch at ti a',„• °i• l elgtl stated what I gathered from the G. ts t-ii"orinaabl ished to state that the French , o re 11 ttllc. t h " re Y il d '' their ambassador from dtsplcasu si r s t' 4 rl r Y i' h Government,eae to imply that yet there had been word, 01,es, 'eneral Lahitte which seemed NI "et's were not so serious as that bare fact of the °tht l• t"tlic t lead one to suppose. With respect to any fu r t s t i s en t e te a ru .,ent if mine, I can only say I answered h the r t,tta„,oKed me. When the Hon. Baronet the fat e tie a td 11: asked ree if I had a copy of the dish, I ras I"44rlnot• and in answer to another Hon. Gen . - li fq ,, P :4;,,i le t i i i it not; been .r r e ead. The statements, there the whole truth as far as I tiai;)esr lt-s-ts(Claenettrsin)adeAwthere is to be no formal discus flutt'vilt.roe...:Dlestir.in at As there present moment, I regret the ili f tp odn u .. of . the Hon. Member for Canterbury, as 1 1 ,i,'elti es 'alc s Y is rather to increase than diminish the I'4'9 tsts ° t" the question. In any of the hereafter N t h, II:, ,ray full share in it, and f h responsibility, 4,.. erß eti u le Lord who conducted the negotiation was rete e) of the Government—l, as _the head of that i h tee,vlat, consider myself to be mainly responsible.— . " 9 6' ) I may 4.. 'eh ,s,_. ~ y state that there have been occasions kr,or:l);sr;_einiati„on and good offices have been of use 4stli,ri °re e :` l • - • Medaitton J—there are cases in which ) 1 eli tw have been the means . of maintaining peace li i ,N k d e n c ountries. There is the case ofN a m pl Q e s s . , te, su spen ded of ours was enforced by coercive Go apt' Who le at the request of the French v s er ti n_- . te ll :Ili- 4 04e good offices were accepted andsucc e e f s t f he l Aarls e o ease, that of Mexico, the position e otlttritries the was reversed. . France and Mexico I tiir 4 Of • eve of hostilities, and the good lio i lqt r, England were successfully employed. I s ot . s se _, 1, tl. It "W enter into other matters. I agree with t . h? .. torn o ,taer for Canterbury, that if there is any expl o. kn,eta4,', peer we can make to the French G _ •al a a con e . tai d bd wh isteet with the honour and interest of Ik tis rs tand• 1141 may remove the present unhappy mis se h„,"Lng, and restore to a state of harmony thel e e . - );, e tas i ,;"°, Pen the two countries, no effort of the Lit tt l ',‘Bl. Rbie e e rtel l be wanting, and no opportunity . shall be 1,, l•ti o , ''' to make it.......(Ghcers.) Notwithstanding th . e . 'ti '°f th rit, eon e Ron. Member for Bucks, I . trus n t vv . e s. s n h e a e l . l 10. 4 1 for ng acted with cordiality aOl I 4 4 4 ll ° p 4 o - j i ; i , ri . g hestation which I hold, I can truly say kr: l lt p re "'tat occurrence ever gave me so much pa s it i s a tntr4 thr'tent unhapy difference with France. . F '" the 4- °lle occasion we have shown a desire to con k t s 4 ,, ti es Wish"a aninterests of the Government of -hlo'Zbi;,%.ill not say when the interests of England f) Ll t s. q th7 i ' d to our doing so, but wh ,. en the popular ()pi ke° e 'isl s • c ountry was against y ielding to France. r tl ..k pon e t o show forbearance, and . to see France a to "se •" on the Continent, fully convinced that upon P l'i l ' - ( 'l C t l i tu e l e t e r v , depend s the peace , and prosperity of Eu j"n *) and t e b e sP n u ss l° l l was here terminated, e ' e ir, ‘'• . °• '- e•R put the question that he now leave ' tl whi h ttk Abls c 't, f ' Ata.ser-trJERATION OF COFFEE. t t e r th k - then rose to move, pursuant to notice, It titl t s tle re ven ue e'a of the public health, the improvement .41) '" r, it , and the encouragement of . th b e e f i a n i g r kkri 6 as expedient that the laws te ll tilt tho se in force for the reprossi n o n n w i of in offences I ,htj r ev es , s ° laws which regulated the sale of coffee ti ° lib' - ` e ci its a dulteration. When ho had brought etn I cet o I tl , th 9 ss t . l a former occasion under the notice of the It , :44 k . illght Honourable Baronet the Chancs•llor Ltie'ete i.rritter.(Sir C. Wood) had said he would iew takeo_ lAi t !riz 4114 serious consideration, with the evilsv corn! Tii , ti M Of, serious measure to remedy the ch tel tly ,ailbut the Right Hon. Gentleman hd subse a any . I 'll s 1 4 tk _that he did not intend to propose itwould be tek w led th:te existing law. From 4, °f th :te , j ilt I.,, th e, Right Hon. Gentlem th a a n t did not con- Ott i . law e j°aing any obstacles in the carrying out . 'tq Tt. --- i t at present stood with respect to that lo Itei. ',ere 'A fnsto be taken 1 ,- th,, -04 4 . Were several consh.era to 'hi e ," ter se 10 that particular, which were indioated . te illc u **•-tu: Of his notice. There was first the public t f i lse t °4 te th e ti there Was the loss quarter of a of taheencourage 4, t he ttl f u r i cied fa n v e t n h n e a —and fraudulent finally' at the expense t4erirebecr trader. For all these matters the Right colleagues, the 11: 4 ,,her t ,:, Gentleman and his . !tor,'oll4C the present Government, were responsible. aistbe ti"Pon referrin to the returns which were be te the l'o Que e, that sinagultaneous with a great increase ti ge nrip w e t h of Coffee in the colonies,. and an increase A h ;41 011 , nation into this country, there was a great t h 'q th ere "? the e ; had -mount of duty paid upon the article. I 'v Q 4 •tY of , been a corresponding decrease in the ttthene d er . the consumption and the amount of th t 4 eeh 'red fro o, s.Ope, it, at a time when, in consequence % N ei Phas e '. Made in the tariff, a great increase had e r , a e ' 'n•-! rt the consunaption of almost every other s o mas i t , i h e e t all this time there had been a great in 41loe °f coif call of an article sold under the Thudltf th: e t .; The Right Hon. Gentleman the Chan su! the c benuer in that matter, he conceived, tio t , toh . 4 1 ",,a5 . of that which the law required of him. t1t,, 4 Act a I!" Learned Member then referred to the va- th e reat f' Parliateent which had been passed for the 14 enbst• regtilatin -1 II e R.. Ittni o - .. g various trades, and preventing ` 4 t. l "t one 4 i 0 other articles for those specified. tf _ ArQht h . he quoted—namely, the 43d of George ally vited, unihr certain penalties, the sale 1 'teats,' --"',, matter. A subsequent Act, however, in the reign of George IV., had allowel to j certain trades the right of vending such an article, ' under particular restrictions, by an inferior class of traders for the use of poorer customers who might wish to avail themselves of the cheaper substitute. But with this modiScation, the Commissioners of Excise were obliged under those Acts to enforce the penalties laid against every class of dealers who came under the ope ration of the law. And this had been always done, with but two exceptions. Those who adulterated tea were prosecuted; those who adulterated pepper had been sub jected to penalties; and in the same way with respect to other articles ; but it appeared to him that by a certain Treasury minute, to which he would have to refer, par ties were encouraged to adulterate coffee. In April, 1833, a minute had been passed, founded on a memorial from a party praying fur exemption from the conse quences of a prosecution iustituted against him for mix ing chicory powder 'with coffee. On that occasion the Lords of the Treasury had discontinued the prosecution. On another occasion, in reply to the Commissioners of Excise, they had in some sort authorised the sale of chicory powder. And in April, 1841, when the pre sent First Lord of the Admiralty (Sir Francis T. Bering) was Chancellor of the Exchequer, on the occasion of a memorial presented from the coffee-dealers in Liverpool, praying for a change in the law respecting that trade, it had been set forth in a minute that the mixing of chicory with coffee was not considered a fraud on the revenue, and cert sin prosecu tions commenced had bred stopped. It had been sup posed that as long as the chicory paid the proper duty there was no loss to the res eau°. Now, it should be supposed that some strung infl iences actuated the Chan. csllor of the Exchequer when he allowed the fair ch alers to be put down, the revenue to be injured, and the public health to be endangered by that practice. The lion. Member then went into some statistical statements, showing how the revenue from coffee and foreign chicory duties had diminished since the year 1830. Foreign chicory paid duty as well as coffee; but when it was ascertained that no duty was imposed on home-grown chicory, its cultivation was carried on to a large extent in this country; and from the year 1840, when the last Treasury minute on the subject had been issued, there was a double advantage derived from the adulteration of coffee by chicory. It would be found that for thrt e months in the present year. as compared with a cor responding three months of the previous year, the loss to the revenue on the coffee duties amounted to about 36,000L—(Hear, hear.) Tho Honourable Mem ber having referred to some authorities to show the increase in the quantity of chicory lately grown in this country, and having entered into calcula tions of the consequent loss to the revenue, asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how he could come down to that House to propose new taxation, when he aban doned an actual amount of revenue to the extent of 250,000 L, and did not endeavour to realise a probable increase t f the same to the amount of half a million. In reply to what the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said on a former occasion, he would observe that if a party wished to purchase coffee at a fair price let him do so, and pay a fair price for it as coffee; and if he wished to purchase chicory at a fair price, let him do so also, and mix the two articles then according to his own taste. But even the article grown and sold in this country as chicory was in itself adulterated to a very considerable extent, in consequence of the demand for it. He had the authority of parties well acquainted with all the de tails of the trade for stating that that which was called chicory was largely adulterated with what was called common raddle, a kind of earth like Spanish brown, and inferior to Venetian red. Another party, to whom a complaint had been made with respect to the colour of coffee, had said it could be improved by being worked up with soot.—(Hear, and laughter.) All the adultera• bons to which he had alluded were under the sanction of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he had letters not only from wholesale but also from retail dealers, stat ing that in consequence of the Treasury order which the Right Hon. Gentleman persisted in maintaining, they were unable to cope with the unfair trader. The extent to which the adulteration was practised was evi dent from a comparison of the quantity entered for home consumption in the present and the past year. In the quarter ending April last there was an increase of im portstion, the amount being 4,236,9991 b., while in the corresponding quarter last year it was only 3,650,5261b5. The consumption, however, decreased for while in 1849 it was 9,386,2551b5., in 1850 it only amounted to 7,465,3841b5. Notwithstanding this, there was no doubt that the consumption of the article called coffee had gone on increasing. What was the case with the revenue de rived from tobacco? It had gone on increasing for some years past, and still continued to increase, because the Chancellor of the Exchequer had pursued in that case, and to this day continued to pursue, the very course which he refused to adopt in the case of coffee; he had taken steps to prevent its adulteration. The decreasing nsimber of prosecutions, and the increasing revenue, showed that the system had proved effectual in checking the illicit trade. He did not ask the Right Hon. Gen tleman to bring in a Bill to give effect to the law. He asked him only not to stand in the way of the execution of the law. lie asked him to listen to the representations from the merchants and traders of London and Liver pool, and other places, and from all those interested in growing coffee, and to revoke the Treasury order. Ile asked him not to prevent, but rather to direct the Com. missioners to execute the law established by the 43d Geo. 111. and 3d Geo. IV. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not disposed to deny that the facts stated by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman were, to a great extent, true. Beyond doubt the consumption of coffee had fallen off, and there had been an increase in the revenue to a cert in extent; and it was equally true that coffee was mixed with chicory and other articles. But it might be qwstioned whether that falling off in the consumption was owing to the admixture of chicory. He had very great doubts on the subject. The fact was that several other articles had entered into the consumption of the people. The great reduction which had taken place in ttin price of teas of ordinary character must not be lost sight of. There were two grounds on which Parliament might justify such an int.' ference as that proposed by the lion. and Learned Gentleman—first, when the adul teration was calculet , d to injure the revenue ; and, secondly, when it was likely to prove prejudicial to the public health. Now the Hon. and Learned Gentleman probably might not like the admixture of chicory with coffee, he did not like it himself, but he never heard that it was prejudicial to health. It was remarkable that, while many memorials had been presented on the sub ject by the sellers and growers of coffee, he had heard of none on the part of the consumers. The llon. and Learned Member had also mentioned other mate rials used in adulterating coffee, and amongst them peas and beans; but he certainly had never heard that either were unwholesome food. Measures to prevent the adul teration of tea were justifiable, because it was known ' that the spurious material introduced was sloe-leaves dried on copper-plateie which was deleterious. Tobacco, again, was an instance in which the Legislature thought it necessary to prohibit adulteration, on grounds of re venue. The present, however, was a case in which the public must decide for itself, and if the dealer sold a bad article he must pay the penalty of losing his customers. Ho had on former occasions read letters to the House, which he would not again weary them with, which showed that a certain admixture of chicory with coffee promoted the sale of the article. In declining to ac cede to the motion of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman he had the authority of precedent, and was merely following the example set by three or four of his predecessors. He had received a deputation from Manchester of gentlemen interested in putting down the sale of chicory, and what was their statement ? They said that the price of the chearest coffee sold in the berry in Manchester was Is. 4d., while ground coffee, which one would think should cost more, was sold at Is. a pound, which made it clear that the price paid by the mass of the people was below that at which pure coffee could be sold. The proposition f it levying an excise duty on chicory grown in this country might perhaps be a fairer proposition; but the subject had been carefully considered, and it was known that the opposition to an excise duty would be so great that it was not thought expedient to attempt it. Then came the question, whether he had put in force the 43d George 111. and 3d George IV., and in con nexion with that point he must remind the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that these enactments were not intended simply to prevent adulterations, but to pre vent such adulterations as were calculated to affect the revenue. The mere suspension of the Treasury order would have no eff,ct. Was he, then, to undertake a crusade against all the sellers of coffee, and send ex cise officers to their shops to endeavour to learn whether they mixed it or not? This was rather a serious request to make, and he had a very strong suspicion that if he were to act on the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's suggestion, and institute such a system ofdomiciliary visits, in the course of the next month the House would be inundated with petitions. But this was not all. It would be exceedingly difficult to prove the fact of the mixture, and no one knew better than the Hon. and Learned Gentleman how imprudent it was to undertake prosecutions upon insufficient evidence. He had asked the officers of inland revenue whether any ready means existed of detecting these adulterations, and the answer was, that neither by chemistry or any other way could they ascertain with any degree of accuracy whether chicory was mixed with the coffee or not. Informations might be laid, but the result would be nothing but vexa tion, without any practical result. With regard to the question of reducing the duty on coffee, he could only repeat what he had already stated on a former occasion, that he must decline to enter into any engagement as to what artieles might be the subject of future reduction. Mr. CARDWELL said, without asking the Govern ment to adopt the course proposed by the Hon. and Learned Member for Youghal, there could be no doubt that the present state of the coffee trade might very pro perly form the subject of discussion in that House. Seeing that the consumption had decreased since 1848 from nearly 10,000,0001b5. t o 7 , 50 0,000 1b 5., i t was not surprising that the coffee trade should feel anxious to represent their case to the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Right Hon. Gentleman had ob served that no memorials had been presented from the consumers, and that caveat emptor was the principle to be applied to this case. That implied that if purchasers were on the alert the evil would not exist. If, there fore, the evil did exist, it was clear that the purchasers were not alive to it, or they would either have purchased their coffee in the bean, or applied to the Right Hon. Gentleman. What they complained of was, that chicory and other substances should be consumed as coffee— that the dealers traded upon the ignorance of th e poor, and sold them another article instead of the ono they asked for. He had been informed by a gentleman who was well acquainted with the subject, that the scale of adulteration usually adopted was that coffee sold at Is. per lb contained three parts chicory and one part coffee; that sold at Is. 4d. contained five parts chicory and three parts coffee in eight parts; and coffee at Is. ad. per lb contained equal parts of each. He thought that was a very undesirable state of things, and three remedies were suggested . One was the placing an ex cise duty upon chicory; that was considered objection able. The next was one that the Right lion. Gentle man had very properly alluded to with caution, V e giving a stimulus to the consumption of coffee by re ducing the duty. That ho hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman wculd shortly have it in his power to adopt, although he would not give any pledge on the subject. The course suggested by the debate was, whether the Right Honourable Gentleman was disposed to give to the Act of Parliament an interpretation which he was right in saying it did not originally bear; these powers were, he believed, given not to protect the public, but the revenue ; but the fair trader said, " I am in the same interest as the re venue, and I call upon you to exercise its powers in my behalf." The Right Hon. Gentleman had very properly said that the sending an Excise officer into every coffee dealer's establishment would be attended with ♦ery great difficulty and objection. Favouritism would come into play, and it would be found that one fraudulent trader was overlooked while another was prosecuted. The views he took of the question were entertained by the Chamber of Commerce of Liverpool, whose sympathies were altogether with the coffee dealers; but they did not think it expedient to petition Parliament for the adoptio❑ of the remedy now under consideration—they thought with the Right Hon. Gentleman, that it would be exceedingly difficult to give the propositio❑ practical effect, and that its result would ultimately be to drive the trade into the hands of the systematically fraudulent traders. In the justice of these opinion he was entirely disposed to concur, and he was not surprised that the Right Hon. Gentleman should withhold his concurrence from the proposition. Ho hoped, however, the subj•et would receive the consideration of the Right Hon. Gen tleman, and that he would be able to devise some means of redressing the grievance which was now vory gene. rally complaii,e3 of. Mr. MOFFATT said the interests cf the coffee-pro. ducers bad been altogether lost sight of. The Right Hon. Gentleman said the colonial producers were pro tected by a duty of 2d. a lb. against the foreign pro ducers, but that was only true up to the last five years, and now there was no real protection to the colonial growers. He thought the statement of the Hon. Gen tleman the Member for Liverpool must have convinced the Right lion. Gentleman that the large consumption of chicory naturally influenced the consumption of coffee. He believed that of the 10,000 vendors of coffee in the country, at least 9,500 mixed chicory with it. He trusted when the question was being considered by the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, that the interests of the pro ducers would receive due attention. Colonel THOMPSON suggested that the way to avoid purchasing chicory for coffee was to buy it unground. Mr. ANSTEY would not trouble the House to di►id• upon the question. The motion was negatived without a division. MANNING THE NAVY. On the question that the Speaker do leave the Chair, Captain HARRIS, who was very indistinctly heard in the gallery, called the attention of the House to the necessity of devising some means of manning the royal navy in time of war. Mr. Ward had stated in his evi dence that the number of men required for the manning of the navy in 1848, including ships in commission, ships in ordinary, and in progress of completion on the stocks, was 112,000 officers, men, marines, and boys. Of these 76,000 were petty officers and seamen- The ques tion was, what facilities were there, under the existing laws, for obtaining that supply? The Act sth and 6th Wm. IV. asserted the right of the Crown to the ser vices of every seaman in time of war for a period of five years, and provided that a certain sum as bounty should be given to volunteers. It was found, however, that that was insufficient, and other powers were had recoune to—namely, impressment. He (Captain Harris) had ma turely considered the question for several years, and bad lost no opportunity of submitting his views to the House. He had arrived at the conclusion that the best and the frankest way of dealing with the subject was also the wisest, and that the system of impressment acted injuriously for the interests of the service and the cou n- ry. He was ready to recognise the prerogative of the Crown, and he believed the mercantile service was also ready to contribute to the service of the Government and the support of that navy on which its own exist ence depended. The effect of the impressment was to drive thousands of their best seamen into foreign ser vice. He doubted whether, in the event of another war breaking out, they would be able to impress as they had formerly done-the opinion of the whole country would he against them. The plan he begged to sub mit, and which would of course be much more effi ciently carried out by the Board of Admiralty than by any other parties, was that of recognising the right of the Crown to the services of all seafaring men in time of war for a limited period of service, depending on the nature of the war and its probable duration. Every seaman in the merchant service would be bound to serve during the period the proclamation of the Crown was in force. After that limited period of service the seamen should obtain a protection, and the best ma chinery for calling into requisition the services of these men would be the ballot; and the registering of seamen would form the groundwork from which the selections would be made. He proposed that the seamen should have tickets granted them, which it would be necessary for them to produce when called upon. As the Govern ment had recently expressed its determination to give a grant of 30,000/. to the Merchant Seamen's Fund, he an ticipated that there would be every disposition on their part to promote the views of the Government. He pro posed that the ballot should be taken four times in the year, and there should be arrangements at the stations abroad by which the commanding officers of the ships requiring men would be supplied. He anticipated that there would be no difficulty in that way of raising 25,000 men, and ho calculated the number of volunteers at 20,000 more. He did not think, taking into account what had been recently done, that much more was re quired to make the royal navy a popular service. Both the present and former Boards of Admiralty had done all in their power to promote the comfort of the men. Much had b* ea done since 1792 in increasing the quantity and providing a better quality of provi sions, and abolishing the two banyan-days in each week, when the men went without meat. They had also got a supply of fresh meat and vegetables, whenever it was practicable, and the best medical attendance. They had also obtained more accommodation between decks, and the able-bodied seamen had had an increase of about 4s. 6d. per month in their pay since 1797. They had also now got an allowance of one-third of their pay while abroad, while in former times they could get no money when on a foreign station. Another great advantage was the diminution of corporal punishment in the royal navy. At the same time it was well known that even in times of peace it was difficult to man the navy, and he had himself seen line-of-battle ships lying at Spithoad and obliged to go to sea without the full complement of men. It was also well known that many of their best seamen went into foreign service more especially the American. It was said that the men were better off in that service, but he did not think that opinion was well founded. He found that the following was the scale of provisions in both services -the British seaman received 11b. biscuit, the American seaman 2 oz. more ; the British seaman 4 pint spirits, the American the same; the former 11b. fresh beef, the latter lklb.; of sugar the British seaman had cz., and the American seaman 2 oz. ; the other articles supplied were pretty much the same. In salt meat the American seaman had certainly the advantage, and ho wished the Admiralty would increase the allow sec° of salt meat from 4lb, to llb., as there was a con siderable loss in the boiling of salt meat. With that exception there was, in the article of provisiors, no sub stantial difference between the two. Whea they came to wages, there certainly was a difference. The British warrant-officers, first-class, had 90/. per annum, and the American. 1401. ; the second class, 75/., and the second class in the American service, 120/. ; the third class in the British service, 611, and in the American, 1051. ; the British first class potty officers had 21 12s. per mon*, the American, 4/. to 31. 15s. ; second class Bri tish, 2/. Bs. 9d., American, 3L 2s. 6d.; able seamen (British), 11. 16s. Bd., American, 2/. 10s. ; marine (British), 1/. Bs. 2d., American, 21. ls. Bd. ; landsmen (British), 1/. ss. ; American, 1/. 17s. 6d. Then, on the other hand, the American seaman had no pension for long service, although he had for wounds. In the British service there was a pension of 10d. per day, or Hit per annum, paid in whatever part of the kingdom he re sided. Should he continue in the service he received his pension in addition to his pay. He would take the liberty of suggesting to the Government the policy of increasing the wages of the British seaman to some mo derate amount. He thought the first-class petty officers ought to bo increased to 31. per month, the second to 2/. 10s., and the able seamen to 21., and the others in the same proportion. Ho suggested al so th e propr i ety of restoring the pension to the widows of warrant officers, as he considered the doing away with it a very harsh measure. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman concluded by submitting his proposition to the consideration of the Government. Captain BERKELEY complimented the Hon. Gen tleman on the manner in which he had brought for ward his motion, and could assure him that not only the present but precFcling . Boards of Admiralty had taken up the question in a proper spirit. He was, further, proud to say that the teen had now no occasion to go back to the merchant service, as on being paid off they had six weeks' leave of absence, an d cou l d then return and join any ship they thought proper. With regard to not being able to man the navy, he could assure the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman that she board bad taken the greatest pains to have a reserve in hand. Further, he was happy to say, as regarded the men themselves, that they were proud and happy to serve in the royal navy; and, as regarded the question of im pressment, he found that there was i only one petiti on pre sented against it, and that was n 1760. In that petition it was said that although they objected to impr essmen t , yet, if it was found to be indispensable to maintaining the efficiency of the royal navy, they would submit to it without a murmur. He was no advocate for impress ment except in cases of very great necessity, but h e thought it would be unwise to deprive the Govern ment of the power of resorting to this system if they deemed it necessary to do so. He believed that the seamen themselves, under extreme circumstances, would not be unwilling to submit to this system. The motion was then withdrawn. EXPENSES OF COMMISSIONS. Mr. J. STUART, in rising to call the attention of the House to the return No. 669, of 1848, of the number of Commissions of Inquiry appointed sine!, 1830, and the expenses of each, said that the exigencies of the orders of the House required that not only the expenses gene rally should be stated in these returns, but those also which related to all incidental matters connected with the immediate subj ec t re f erre d t o , as far as could beob tateed. It a pp eare d t h at no f ewer t h an 91 commissions of inquiry had been issued by successive Governments between the years 1830 and 1848. According to the re turns that had been laid before the House the expense to the country of those commissions of inquiry amounted to 638,0001. By ref erence to d ocuments muc h more authentic than these returns, he was sorry to say, they had the most entiefactory evidence from individtals extt- THE SUN, LONDO FRIDAY EVEN INTG MAY 24, , was absolutely frightful to read of. The sea was strewed with the bodies of these poor people for miles; and then, when this butchery had been performed, and these help less creatures destroyed—for they had not bows and arrows, nothing but a sort of blow-pipe with which to defend themselves—clown came her Majesty's Govern ment to this Christian assembly, and asked for 201. a head for slaughtering them! He asked what was the ground upon which they had committed this massacre? What proof did they possess that these people had in any way molested our commerce? He had looked through the papers connected with th• affair, and he had said that these people had been murdered without a tittle of evidence that they had ever molested us—with out evidence that would have convicted a man in this country of petty larceny. But the largest sum was for payment of head•money for the destruction of pirates upon the coast of China. But where was the proof that they were pirates? Col. SI Bnio RP—They were Free-tralers.—(" Hear, hear," from Col. Chattarton.) Mr. COBDEN—What was the fact? Somebody sent word to Hong-Kong that a piratical fleet was on the coast of China, and a steamer was then dispatched, which fired upon them from a distance at which they were powerless. These people too were said to be pirates, but we had no proof of their having molested one of our vessels on its way to Hong-Kong, Shanghai, or any other Chinese port. He objected to the people of England being taxed for any such purpose. He thought we had no right whatever to go about offering to be executioners for other nations. He (Mr.Cobden) doubted the legality of the claim, because the orders of the Admiralty were to the effect that English vessels should not molest native vessels, unless English ships or English commerce was attacked. Mr. HENRY DRUMMOND was not able to say why the Government repealed the statute; but when the Honourable Member asked for proof of these Bornean pirates being really such it was enough to say, let him look for any record of voyages or travels, printed or i❑ manuscript, that called them anything else.—(Hear.) Yet now we are to be told they were only innocent Free-traders.—(" Hear," and a laugh.) They dealt in men and women, to be sure—(Hear)—and their last act of trade, before they were attacked by Sir J. Brooke, was that they seized upon a body of persons who were really trading, and put them all to death. It was true they carried on war among themselves; the tribes upon the coast were of a different nation and religion from those in the interior, who were able to trade, but these pirates would not let them.—(Hear, hear.) What was the proof of their being pirates? The judgment of every competent court; and the House of Commons was not fitted to set aside the judgment of the courts in Singa pore and elsewhere.—(Hear.) Because Sir J. Brooke was carrying on most successfully and meritoriously a most thriving colony, which a certain person wanted to turn into a matter for his own aggrandisement, taking shares and making Sir J. Brooke a joint jobber with him, that man had been an anonymous slanderer of Sir J. Brooke for the last three years —(Hear, hear) —and that was the truth of the matter.—(Hear, hear.) As to our having no right to attack persons unless they were pirates against our commerce, why then did we send Lord Exmouth out some years ago against pirates who never touched any person sailing under an English flag? —(Hear.) He (Mr. Drummond) hoped there would be an opportunity hereafter, as was promised, of going into the matter fully, when Sir J. Brooke's salary should be before the House. Mr. COBDEN said the lion. Gentleman showed much more ignorance of geography than ho did in reference to the Saribas and Sakaran tribes. Sir J. Brooke, the Hon Gentleman said, was carrying on a prosperous co lony; but if the Hon. Gentleman meant Labuan, he would find that Sir James Brooke resided at Sarawak, his own territory, 300 miles distant, for eleven months in the year, for which he received, as Governor of that colony, 2,0001., a year, and as Consul, 5001. a year. He (Mr. Cobden) had never seen Sir J. Brooks., and had no personal feeling, therefore, on the subject; but he op posed the grant on public grounds, because he did not wish the people of this country to be burdened for such a matter. Mr. PLOWDEN had lived in China for several years; but if the Ladrones of the present day were equal to those of 1809, they committed the greatest ° atrocities. The Honourable Gentleman was therefore quite wrong in supposing these pirates innocent traders. He (Mr. Plowden) could bear witness to the atrocities of the Chinese pirates, and to their daring also, as he was on board the Daedalus, as an amateur, when they had possession of the upper part of the Canton river. Another instance that happened the same year referred to one of her Majesty's vessels, a sloop of war, commanded by Captain Wells, which was attacked by a fleet or 40 piratical junks, who, however, received a ter rible thrashing.—(Laughter.) The chief of the pirates in those days, as the Hon. Member says has taken place in these, was created a naval officer, with high rank in the Chinese fleet. Up to that period the pirates had possession of the inner passage of the Canton river, where they seized the boats and crews of Indiamon, and subjected them to the most atrocious punishments. The Malays on the coast of Borneo were equally bad; in proof of which he needed only refer to the wreck of the Alceste, during the embassy of Lord Amhurst; and to the conduct of the crew of a prahu, on board of the Sa. marang, ship of war; all of whom were hung up at the yardarms of the ship, or had round shot tied to their legs, and were flung overboard.—(Laughter and cheers.) Mr. BRIGHT deprecated the indulgence of merriment and exultation at such a narration. He argued that the cause must be very bad when the facts referred to in its support were dated so far back as 1810. Mr. PLOWDEN said 1816. Mr. BRIGHT had never heard of a vote introduced by a statement so bald and unsatisfactory. The question was whether the evidence in this case was sufficient to satisfy courts of justice? If so, why was it not laid be fore the House? He hoped, therefore, that his Hon. Friend would move the postponement of the vote until sufficient explanations were given. The proceedings under Sir J. Brooke, and on the coast of China, horrified the public; it was, therefore, absolutely requisite that inquiry should be made into them. The Legislature professed to bo very Christian, and yet it was now pro posed to grant 100,0001. to reward indiscriminate slaughter, without any proven cause. mined before Committees of this House, to show that this sum was not one-fourth of the expense to which the country had been put by those Commissions. According to the return which he held in his hand, and which was printed in the vacation of 1848, this statement was fully corroborated. Let them take, for example, one commission, which was the tidal harbour commission. The expense of that commission, as it appeared by the return, was 1,7791., but he found by the report of the committee upon miscellaneous expenses, that for print ing alone, during the limited period of three years, the sum was 5,117/. When they found this to be the case, what value could they place upon the statements eon- Wined in returns of this kind ? Another commission was issued in 1845, called " the Metropolitan Railway Termini Commission." The return set down the ex pease of that commission at the modest sum of ,502/. But the report of the committee on miscellaneous ex penditure stated that the printing of this commission for two yearn amounted to 2,857/. There was a gross de gree of carelessness evinced by these returns, which should not be passed over without the marked notice of the House. The result of the whole of this report showed that the country had been put to an expense above 2,000,000/. by these commissions of inquiry. One of the witnesses examined, a gentleman of great experience on the subject, stated that those 91 commissions of inquiry. since 1830, were one great cause of the immense increase of the expenses for printing, and he added this remark able statement, that the sanitary commission was likely to entail an expense upon the country for printing of about 60,000/. Colonel SIBTHORP said he had taken a great deal of trouble to procure accurate information upon the subject by moving for certain returns with very little effect. H, concurred with the Hon. and Learned Member in think ing that there were great inaccuracies in these returns which had been laid before them. Indeed, nothing could be more inaccurate, unfair, and unsatisfactory, than the returns of the expenses of the commissions since 1830. Sir F. BARING apologised for the absence of his Hon. Friends connected with the Treasury, who were not aware that this subject would be brought under the con sideration of the House at so early an hour of the night. He apprehended that the gravamen of the offence was not being incl u ded in thos e th e returns. expense of printing Mr. STUART—Yes ; stationery and clerks also. Sir F. BARING was afraid, in the absence of his Hon. Friends, he would not be able to go into details. He should have understood, by the order of the House, that the expense of printing was not to be included. There was no separate account kept for stationery; there was a general estimate for printing and stationery. He was, however, informed that regulations had been recently issued by the Treasury, in conjunction with the Home Department, by which it was intended to include in such returns the expenses of printing. If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would direct attention to the subject when the officers connected with the Treasury were present, he would no doubt receive every satisfaction on the subject. SUPPLY.—NAVAL ESTIMATES. The House then went into Committee of supply; Mr. BERNAL in the chair. Sir F. BARING said that the supplemental expenses under different heads, now put into the hands of the chairman, included the original estimates as well as the supplemental. The first vote proposed was 883,999/. for the deficiency in naval stores, for building machinery in steamers, and fur the building of vessels placed under the command of Captain Austin. Mr. COBDEN regretted the absence of the Hon. Member for Montrose on the present occasion, as he knew that that Hon. Member had prepared a statement in reference to these stores, and had given notice of an amendment to this vote. He complained of the custom adopted by the Government of proposing the heaviest votes on the first day the House met after the holidays. This was an inconvenient course, and ought to be put a stop to. The practice of the Committees above stairs was altogether different, for, considering it unlikely that lion. Members would be back so soon after the holidays they adjourned until Monday n ext . This was also the case in respect to the Easter ho lida y s . He hoped that the Government would not persevere in thin course. Sir G. PECHELL asked whether this was a supple mentary vote, or whether they were proceeding from where they had left off ? Mr. BERNAL said that the vote was taken from where they had left off. Sir G. PEC HELL said he was satisfied that not one half of the vessels now in ordinary would over be of the s slightest use to them, and he would recommend that the class should be put up to auction and sold. In many cases the building of vessels was considerably less than in the public yards ; for instance, the Water Witch, one of the most effective ships on the coast of Africa. was purchased at the rate of 12/. a ton, when the other vessels of the same class were built at an expense of 20/. a ton. He complained of the enormous expendi ture of coals in the navy steamers. He was told that by a due economy there might be a saving of 201. a day in each port. Sir F. BARING remarked that Members could not complain of being taken by surprise, when the Govern ment determined upon proceeding with the estimates that night. There was a large attendance of Members at five o'clock. When the Honourable and Gallant Offi cer complained of the expenditure of its stores, he should have mentioned that there had been a reduction in that item this year of 390,000/., and upon coals the re duction had been 54,0001. As to the Water Witch it bad been purchased at second hand, which was a very different thing from the cost of a vessel as originally built. Sir G. PECHELL explained. He gave credit to the Government for having made large reductions. Mr. FITZROY asked upon what ground the reduc tion in the expenditure of coals had been made ? Sir F. BARING replied that it bad been made by th e diminution in the expenditure, and the reduction in the price of coals. Mr. DISRAELI did not agree in the recommendation of the Hon. Member for the West Riding that Ministers should not proceed with important business the first day after the holidays. He would not recommend that the motion of which notice had been given should be post poned, because there was a possibility of its being car ried ; whereas it would not be so if the Financial Refor mers were present.—(Laughter.) Lord J. MANNERS hoped the motion would be pro ceeded with, as they would thereby be spared another night. The vote was then agreed to. The next vote was 339,8391. for the improvement and repair of naval establishments. Sir W. MOLES WORTH proposed to stop the works at Keyhara and at Brill Point, and therefore moved to reduce the vote by 140,000/. Sir F. BARING did not consider it necessary to enter into a detail of the works at Keyham. The Committee had recommended that they should be proceeded with gradually, and in conformity with the engagements which the Government had formed. He thought' it would be very unwise in the Government to abandon works that had cost half-a-million, and which, in ease of war, would be very useful. Mr. PETO did not think that the Government ought to stop the works in hand. They ought to expend the money, and stop there. Mr. COBDEN said the basins were only intended to bo joined to the factories for the purpose of re pairing boilers, and putting in machinery; but no private builder found it necessary to have such a basin, and he could not see what necessity the state had for such magnificent establishments. In voting this 120,0001., they were only advancing a step to wards the completion of the establishment. The opinion of the Committee, who had reported on the subject, was that if those works wore for the first time now proposed, it would never advise the House to sanction them. But when those basins wore finished there would be required not less than 80,000/. fur wages for artificers, and, in addition, 30 per cent. or 40 per cent. for incidental charges. The qu estion then was, whether they wo u ld stop where they were, or whether they would make up their mind to incur an expenditure in wages and charges of 100,000/. or 120,0001. With all the basins and fac tories which they had at present they would be able to repair engines and boilers of vessels to an extent of 200,000 tons. Sir F. T. BARING said there svas not one farthing taken in the vote either for factories or machinery, but only to complete the basin. Nothing would be done in that respect without coming to Parliament. Admiral BO WLES regretted to find Hon. Gentlemen opposite oppose a proposition which was of such vital importance to the state. me, MACGREGOR supported the vote. Mr. BRIGHT did not sea the necessity that there was for the proposed establishment. Private builders did not require anything of the kind. Mr. CORRY contended that those establishments were absolutely necessary to the safety of the country. Mr. COBDEN repeated that it w ould be more economical to have the mach iner y mad e by private con tractors. After a desultory conversation, Sir W. MOLESWORTH, upon the assurance which bad been given by Sir F. Baring, consented to withdraw his amendment, and the vote was then agreed te— as was also the next vote of 27,680/. for medicines a n d medical stores. On the vote of 175.698/. for miscellaneous services, Mr. COBDEN said that of this vote he percei ve d th a t 100,0001. was for the destruction of ships of war and piratical vessels. He should be glad if the Right Hon. Gentleman could inform the Committee of the details of that sum. Sir F. T. BARING was understood to say, in rep l y, ca that it was for head money for pirates ptured and destroyed on the coasts of Borneo end China. Lord D. STUART expressed his astonishment at the increase which had taken place in this vote—the amount last year being only 20,000/. He doubted much if a single "ship of war" had been captured or destroyed. Sir F. T. BARING said that the whole of the trans actions had appeared in the newspapers , and he did not therefore deem it necessary to detail that which all were probably acquainted with. If the Committee wished to have the names of the vessels to which the prize money would attach he was quite prepared to read them. Mr. COBDEN wanted to hear something about the pirates themselves, for he doubted if they were pirates, or if the t ransac ti ons we re legal , The very f act of almost the first measure of the Government this session being a Bill to abolish those Acts which en titl e d part i es t o head money i n certa i n cases for the capt ure o f pirates, was a pro o f to h i m that the law never applied to such cases at all, He should like to know if the predatory tribes of Bsrneo had attacked or molested any English ship. Al though they were going to pay for the destruction of 500 of these savages, it appeared that not one Englishman had re ceived a wound, or even a scratch in the encounter. The fact was that the savages, whilst returning to their own rivers, were intercepted by our ships of war. No sum mons was given to them to surrender—no inquiry was made where they had come from or whither they were going, but they were fired upon, and our steam-boats ran tbeni dm with their paddle-vrheelo it 3 G Ulmer that Sir F. T. BARISId deprecated the speeohes of the Hon. Gentleman in stigmatising honourable and gallant officers without a just cause. The Act of Parliament required the decision of a court of justice on every single case, to the effect that the party upplied against was a pirate. That was a better tribunal than the House to decide smith a question.—(Hear.) Taking the Borneo case, it appeared that Sir C. Rawlinson insisted up )11 minute inquiries upon the first application, and finally decided that the parties were pirates upon the fullest evidence only. The Right Hon. Gentleman pro ceeded to read extracts from this evidence in support of his proposition that the Saribas who had been destroyed were pirates. Besides the high legal opinion of Sir C. Rawlinson, he had also the opinion of the residents of Sin gapore as to these parties being pirates. Whatever might have beet the sland e r s h ea p e d on th e B r i t i s h sailor, they were never before charged with inhumanity. (Hoar.) If the Hon. Member went to a division he would do so with every authority of weight against him. Colonel SIBTHORP should support her Majesty's Ministers upon this vote.—(A laugh.) The speech of the Hon. Member for Newport (Mr. Plowden) bad not satisfied the llon. Member for the West Riding (Mr. Cobden), nor did he suppose it would satisfy his " Man Friday," the Member for Manchester (Mr. Bright.)— ( \Lich ltu'hter, and cries of " Oh, ols," and" Order.) — It, was high time that a stop should be put to this out of-doors kind of humanity which was put forth upon the hustings. He should cordially support the vote. Mr. COBDEN —The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring) had spoken as if some one had attacked the army and navy. Now, if any one had passed a satirical reelection upon the service it was the Right Hon. Gen tleman himself, who had brought in a Bill to abolish lastad-money.—(Hear.) What he (Mr. Cobden) blamed the service for was, not that they had done this, but that they had done it without orders; and what he asked him was, whether he was correct in saying that the ad miral on the station had issued the order h. had cited, and that this order had been confirmed by the Govern ment at home, namely, that oar ships of war were not to attack the natives under the plea that they were pirates unless they had attacked British vessels? Sir F. BARING said, the ships were sent specifically for the purpose of this expedition by Sir F. Collier, the admiral on the station. The orders under which they acted were to be exceedingly careful as to the parties whom they attacked, but his (Sir F. Baring's) im pression was that the lion. Member had misunderstood the order. Mr. COBDEN.—Then that .was another reason why the Committee should defer 'the vote. The address to Sir J. Brooke to which the Right Hon. Gentleman re ferred was signed by a very small minority of the Eu ropean population of Singapore, which consisted of lee persons. There had not bean one single proof that the pirates had ever attacked English vessels. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the payment was ordered by Act of Parliament. There was no, means of escaping from the obligation of paying the head money so long as the Act of Parliament was unrepealed. Lord J. MANNERS deprecated the statement of the Hon. Member for Manchester, that Hon. Gentlemen sit ting on that (the Opposition) side of the House were disposed to cheer every unprincipled and bl oo dy senti ment.—(Hear, hoar, and cries of " Oh, oh.") After a few remarks from Mr. PLOWDEN, in explana tion, and Mr. COBDEN, Mr. MACGREGOR said, it was with great reluct ance that he opposed any vote brought forward by the Government—(Cheers from the Opposition)—but he could not support the vote now under consideration. He believed the time would come when Sir J. Brooke would be:tried in this country for the massacre, and that gen tlemen, at the next election, would hear more on this subject than they would desire. The O'GORMAN MAHON was surprised that Hon. Gentlemen on the Ministerial aide of the House should t be allowed to describe their opponents as the rewarders of murderers. The House bad a great reputation for twaddle, which he trusted would not be perpetuatA by the sanction of such proceedings as had taken place during the present discussion. Colonel THOUPSON still remained unconvinced that any English vessel or subject had been molested by these pirates. He did not hear any tangible attempt to state the name of any vessel or individual that had been at tacked, and ho could not believe that any such had ever taken place. He did not think that the Hon. Member for Newport was entitled to all the inferences that had been drawn from his statement. It was not an unusal thing for the captured to turn round upon their captors in the way he had described, and they were not entitled, on that account, to accuse them of blood-thirstiness. He thought the ; Honourable Gentlemen (Mr. Plowden) said that the captain of a British man-of-war—a Christian man, who would have felt himself injured if he had been called an infidel—had ordered his captives to be run up the yard arm, and that such as ware wounded he ordered shot to be tied to Chan t VA Clam Odom ormb9srd. A wire a 1850. shame to this country that in the Rou se o f Commons , PARLIAMENTARY DIVIS. IO ... NS. such transactions should have been stat e d t o h ave taken ! place and should not have been met with universal repro- ' ( From the Pores and ---41° gs ------ Proceedin of the House of ( :,I,lkrit,:i. hation.—(Hear, hear,) He cou d detest hi mse lf f or ever 1 THURSDAY, MAY '23. having kept company with men who could quietly hear SUPPLY. of such transactions and still call themselves Christians. (IN Tll rti, E r,drj jts.,:a.l C , jinun o .€.l3. llNllTTE E.) But the public, he trusted, wou!d judge of them, and it Motion made, a' d Question put, " That a sun t not would soon soon be seen whether the opinion of the House or ceeding 175,t398/. be granted to her Majesty, to defray the that of the public would finally cowry the day. He should Charges of divers Miscellaneous Services which will come in like to ascertain whether the transactions with China course of payment during the year ending the :31st ,day of were in accordance with the orders of the commander on March, 1851 ; also, for divers Miscellaneous Serviced con that station or not. He knew something of Sir F. Col- o n f ecte a d with the Searching Fxpeditions under the command Tier; he happened to have served under him, and against divided Penny and Captain Austen." The Committee pirates too. That warm-hearted British sailor bad given ; Adderley, C, a, MAJORITY—AYES, 145. out orders contrary to the transactions that took place Naas, Lord and it behoved the House to know by whom those ord ers . AA n Al t o ye i r t y , i Colonel ,ghTt., O'Brien, Sir Lulu were contravened. O'Connell,plaurte• Mr. S. HERBERT thought the whole of the motion Armstrong, R, B. F FEESd e II r irtwi ger° Ferre r , son, si r K. O'Flaherty, Anthony Oswald, Alexander was founded on a misapprehension, and saw no reason Baines, M. T. Foley, J. H. Palmer, How:Well for postponing the vote. The prize money was allotted Baldock,.E. 11. Fordyce, A. D. Parker, John according. to Act of Parliament and the decision of the „r.Baldwin, Barry Forster, M. Plowden, W. H. Raring, sir k. T. Fortescue. J . W. Admiralty Courts, and if Hon. Gentlemen opposite did Raring, Thomas Powlett, Lord W. Freestun, Colonel Price, Sir R not by address to the Crown attempt to invalidate the Baring, Francis Gordon, Admiral Bowdon, Colonel decision of Sir C. Rawlinson, they could not refuse to Ilateson, T. Grace, ,4. D. Ricardo, John L. Bellew. it. M. Grey, Sir George Rich, Henry vote the money. Without denying the merits of Sir J. Bennet . , P. Grey, Ralph Win Romilly,.Colonel Brooke, he wished to know whether it was true that he Berkeley, Admiral Grogan. Edwa r d . Romilly, Sir John was engiged in mercantile speculations at Sarawak? lierkelcy, Henry F. Grosvenor, Lord R. Russell .F. C. H. Berkeley, C. L. G. Ilallyburton, Lord J. Scholerield, Willis, Hr. HAWES sa id a ll hi s i n f ormation was directly S s' s e e c y y u e l i n y o e' u r,: r henr y o a r e d is Seer Birch, Sir Thomas Harris, Captain opposed to the report of Sir J. Brooke being engaged Blackstone, W. S. Hastie, Archibald in mercantile speculations. He believed it was because Bolder°, H. George Hatchell, John Sir J. Brooke had abstained from entering into mercaa- Bowles. Admiral Hawes, B. Sibthorp, Colonel tile speculations that he had incurred the enmity of Boyd, John liayter, W. G. Simeon, John Brand, Thomas Ileathcoat, G. J. Smollett, A. those with whom he was formerly allied. Brockman, E. D. Herbst, 11. A. Somerville, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he had advised Cardwell, E. Herbert, Sidney Spearman, Is i s' Sir J. Brooke, not professionally, to abstain from ap- Carew, W. P. Hobliouse, Sir J. Stanfoid, J. Y. plying for a criminal information to ref u t e the impute- Carter, John B. Ilobhouse, T. B. St an l ey, E. Cavendish, C. C. Hodges, T. L. Stanley, E. H. tions against him. Sir J. Brooke was a public servant, Cavendish, GAL Hood, Sir A. Stansfleld, W. R. and his opinion was that the House of Commons was the Chaplin, W. J. Hope, Henry T. Talbot, C. K. place in which charges against him should be p re f erre d . Chatterton, Colonel Howard, C. W. Tat t er e d, IL W. Childrs, J. W. Jervis, Sir John Thicknes After a few words from Mr. HERBERT and Col one l Clive,e henry 11. Jolliffe, Sir W. H. Thornely, s's. Ralph Thoma s THOMP3ON," Cocks, T. S. Jones, Captain Townley, R. G. The Committee divided, when there appeared— Collins, W. Lascelles, W. S. Tovrnshend, Capt. For the vote ... Corry, H. L ew i s, George CI Trail, George ... ... ... 145 Cowper, W. F. Littleton - , E. R. - Trollope, Sir J. Against it ... ... ... ... 20 Craig, Sir W. G. Lockhart, A. E. Tun:tell, Henry Majority ... -. -----125 Crowder, R.:13. Lowther, Colonel Verney, Sir H. The House then resumed, and the Chairman reported Currie ' H enry Mackie, John W e ll es l e y, Lord C. Davie, Sir H. Mahon, O'Gorman • Westhead, J. P. progress. Dawson, T. V. Manners, Lord J. Willoughby, Sir R. The Stamp Duties (No. 2) Bill was read a second Drumlaurig, Vis. Matheson, J. - Wilson, James ime. Drummond, Henry Matheson, Colonel Wilson, Matthew ' The Exchequer-bills (8,553,7000 Bill was read a se cond time. On the motion of Sir W. SOMERVILLE, the Mu nicipal Corporation (Ireland) Bill was read a second time. The House haying resolved itself into Committee on the TIMBER DUTIES, Mr. BROTHERTON moved (at half-past one o'clock) tkat the Chairman report progress; and The gallery was cleared for a division, but none took place. Duke, Sir J. Maule, Fox Duncan, George Milner,7W. M. Dundas, Admiral Milton, Viscount Dundee, Sir David Mitchell, T. A. Dunne, Coionel Mostyn, E. M. Ebringtou, Lord Mundy, William Weod, 'Sir Charlea TELLEXI. Hill, Lord Mum Howard, Lard E. Mr. MITCHELL then moved a resolution—" That it a expedient that a drawback be allowed on wood im ported for the purpose of ship-building." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the Chairman do now leave the chair. Nothing to his opinion was so objectionable as a system of draw backs; and a great merit of the policy of the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth was, that it put an end to their. It was suggested that the measure now proposed should be confined to vessels surveyed by Lloyd's. Of 10,000 vessels registered there it would apply only to one-third; and to obtain the boon, parties must come under the regulations with respect to survey at Lloyd's, involving much expense and trouble. It was admitted that no check could be applied to boats, barges, and the smaller class of vessels not registered at Lloyd's. They were the fittest objects of the proposed boon, which must therefore be regarded as of a most partial character. It they were to recommence the system of drawbacks, he did not see why it should be limited to timber used in shipbuilding. He did not see how he could refuse to extend it to timber used in mines and for railway sleepers. He did not mean to say, if it could be ho nestly done in the way proposed, that the loss to the revenue from its adoption would be very serious. But he believed that it would open a door to a large amouet of fraud against which there was no adequate means of protection. He admitted that the timber duties were in a most unsatisfactory state—(Hear, hear)—and he hoped that Hon. Gentlemen would not imagine from anything he had said that he was opposed to a revision of them, although he certainly was not inclined to add to the confusion by the adoption of the present motion.—(Hear, hear.) He begged to move that the Chairman do now leave the chair. Mr. CARDWELL thought that the Right Hon. Gen tleman had at least entirely justified the ♦ote which a majority of the House had come to on a former occa sion; because the arguments he had used to-night were as dissimilar as possible from the arguments which were formerly used on this subject.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon, Gentleman had said that he did not see how he could resist the extension of the principle to wood used in mines and in railway sleepers if the present motion were agreed to. The cases were not at all analogous. The sole ground upon which the Ho nourable Member for Bridport rested his motion was that, having subjected British shipping to free competition with foreign shipping, the Legisla ture ought to remove the impediments which operated against that free competition. The shipping of foreign countries was allowed to come in free of duty, but they imposed a duty upon the raw material of which those ships were made. This was an anomaly, and the only one of the kind which was to be found in our tariff.— (Hear, hear.) But the Right Hon. Gentleman said there were difficulties and impediments in carrying it out. Why not allow the lion. Member to bring iu a Bill, and if, after looking at it, he should find that it did not pro tect the revenue, and that he could insert no provision which would enable him to do so. then it would be time enough to oppose the measure?—(Hear, hear.) Mr. MITCHELL said, that the Chancellor of the Ex chequer had to night laid down the rule that he would permit no fresh drawback on any article, whereas in his budget speech he had distinctly pledged himself to agree to a drawback upon timber, provided it could be done without loss to the revenue.—(near, hear.) He (Mr. Mitchell) denied that the measure would either open a door to frauds upon the revenue or exclude the smaller class of vessels from its benefits. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex plained that what he had said in his budget speech was, that though he was himself opposed to the system of drawbacks, yet, after the strong opinion the House had expressed on this question, he should feel it to be his duty to reconsider the matter ; but ho did nut say whether ho would agree to it.—(Hear.) Mr. WYLD and Mr. J. L, Ricsano briefly supported the motion. The Committee then divided on the question that the Chairman do leave the chair, when there appear ed— Ayes ... ... ... ... 50 Noes ... 19 Majority ... ... —3l The House accordingly resumed without proceeding with the resolution in Committee, and the remaining Orders of the Day having been disposed of, the House adjourned at a Quarter past Two o'clock. MINORITY-NOES, 20. Brotherton. J. 11`Gregor, John Tenison, E. K. Greene, John Molesworth, Sir W. ThompsomColonel Hall, Sir Benjamin Pechell, Sir G. Walinsley, Sir J. llardcastle, J. A. Pigot, Francis Williams, John henry, Alexander Robartes, T. J. ileyworth, Lawrence galwey, Colonel King, P. J. Smith, J; B. Luihington, C. Stuart, Lord D. TELLIES. Cobden, Richard Bright, John WOOD USED IN SHIP BUILDING. (IN THE COMMITTEE.) Motion made, and Question proposed, " That it is ex pedient that a Drawback should be allowed on the Duties now payable on all Woud imported for the purpose of Ship Building :"—Whereupon Motion made, and Question put, " That the Chairman do leave the Chair." The Committee divided : MAJORITY—AYES, 50. Armstrong, R. B. Fortescue, J. W. Parker, John Baring, Sir F. T. Freestun, Colonel Price, Sir Robert Bellew, R. M. Grace, 0. D. Rawdon, Colonel Berkeley, C. L. Grey, Sir G. Rona ll Y, Colonel rand, Thomas Grosvenor, Lord R. Romilly, Sir Joke Cavendish, C. C. Hallyburton, Lord Russell, F. C. H. Cavendish, G.H. Hatchell, John aomerville, Sir W. Childers, J. W. Hawes, Benjamin Spearman, H. J. Cowper, W. F. Hayter, W. G. Stansfield,lW. R. Craig, Sir W. G. Hodges, T. L. Tenisoa, E. IC. Dawson, T. Y. Howard, C. W. Townshend, Captain Davie, Sir H. Jervis, Sir John Tufnell, H. Dundas, Admiral Lascelles, W. S. Wilson, James Dundas, Sir David Lewis, G. C. Wood, Sir Charles Dunne, Colonel M'Cullagh, W. Ebrington, Viscount Simile, Fox TILLIIII. Elliot, John E. Mostyn, E. HM, Lord Marcus Foley, J. H. O'Connell, Maurice Howard, Lord Z. COURT CIRCULAR. OSBORNE, Mix 23. The Queen and Prince, accompanied by his Royal Highness the Prince of %Vales, her Royal Highness the Princess Royal, and the younger members of the Royal Family, arrived at Gosport about five o'clock yesterday afternoon, and crossed to Osborne in the Fairy royal yacht, commanded by Lord Adolphus Fitzclarence. Her Majesty and his Royal Highness were attended by the Countess Gainsborough, Lady in Waiting, the Hon. Miss Cavendish, Maid of Honour, Major-General Wemyss and Colonel Sey mour. Equerries in Waiting, the. Hon. Colonel Grey, Sir James Clark, Miss Hildyard, Major•-General Bowles, and Mr. Birch. The Queen and Prince took an early walk in the park and grounds of Osborne this morning, and his Royal Highness the Prince of 'Wales and younger members of the Royal Family, walked and rode in the park. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, and his Serene Highness the Prince of Leiningen, attended by Sir George Couper and the Baroness de Spetb, aro expected at Osborne this afternoon. s of S e l-1 r e e n r e R I o f y i g a h l s l a g h t n h e e sPtrhien cDuch e ss el in K geennt, and i t h e i d s her Wednesdayßoy al n e Highness eve g,a the t Duchess of House. Gloucesteron by Lady Gloucester The Duchess of Kent was attended Anna Maria Dawson and Sir George Couper. Her Royal Highness the Duchess o f Kent, and his Serene Highness t he Prince of Le iningen, attended by Baroness de Speth and , Sir Geor ge Couper, left Clarence House, St. Jame s s, at ten o clock yesterday morning, for the Waterloo bridge terminus, and tra veiled by the London and South - Western Railway to Gosport, en route to Osborne, on a visit t o th e Q ueen. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Gloucester visited her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cam bridge yesterday at Cambridge House. A Cabinet Council was held yesterday afternoon at the Foreign-office. The Ministers present were Lord John Russell, the Marquis of Lansdowne, Sir George Grey, Viscount Palmerton, Earl Grey, the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, Sir F. Baring Sir John Hobhouse, the Ri gh t H on. H. Labouchere, and the Right H.,n. Fox Maule. The Council sat two hours. Earl Grey, Sir George Grey, and the Right Hon. H. Labouchere arrived in town yesterday. A deputation from the Crown Estate its St. Pan cras had an interview with L9rd Seymour yesterday, at the Office of Wood 3 and Forests. Tne deputation included Mr. J. G. Harding, Mr. J. C. Hamden, and Mr. C. Greene, honorary , ecrerary, and Was ac companied by Sir Benjamin Hall, B trt., an! Lord Dudley Stuart, M. P. A deputation from S • James's pariah, including Mr. J. hn G tbrirl, k M t r t . George Waugh, Mr. G. F. Mr. A.T. and Mr. Joseph Brown, had an interview was wi l3 t l h c L Lord Seymour at the same time. The deputation . ac companied by Sir De Lacy Evans, M.P. , a n cl 111 r. C. Lushington, -- . Reason—the proud prerogative whicn confers on man the exclusive privilege of acting and conversing irration ally. —Eliza Cook's Journal. v ROYAL GENERAL ANNUITY SOCIETY.—The Floral Fete and Fancy Bazaar ill a id of the funds of this society was repeated yesterday, at Hano ver - roOrng, and an was attended byequally theil er numerous ano assemblage as on th e preceding day. From the great pressure o f .visitors on Wednesday, it was deemed necessary to prov ide additional stalls in the lower room, contiguous to tho ttow of flowers and plants. MINORITY-NOES, 19. Adair, Hugh E. King, P. J. Thompson, Colonel Birch, Sir T. Loekhart,:A. E. Thorseiy, Thomas Brockman, E. D. Palmer, Itoundell Wyld, Zama, Brotherton, Joseph Peehell. Sir G. Cardwell, Edward Schelefield, W. mums. Duncan, George Pigott, Francis Mitchell, T. A. Forster, Matthew Swollen, A. iticardo, J. L. Greene, John Stanford, J. F. NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. POZTSMOUTII, THURSDAT.—Her Majesty's yacht Fairy, Master-Commander Welch, embarked her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent this afternoon from the Royal Clarence victualling establishment, Gosport, and conveyed her Osborne to visit her Ma. jesty. Her Royal Highness was received by the dignitaries of the port and garrison, and with the usual honours. The Royal Marines furnished the gar rison. The Stromboli steam-sloop, Commander Lord Aurelius Beauclerk, arrived from Greenock yester day, and came into harbour to-day to replenish fuel, prior to proceeding with the Dauntless screw-frigate for a week's trial in the Channel. PLYMOUTH, THURSDAY.—Her Majesty's steam vessel Vulture was warped to the jetty yesterday, and will be placed in dock to-morrow to have her valves examined. The Gossamer tender is under repairs in the Camber. She is to be fitted for surveying the Tongue Sands, on which the unfortunate Royal Adelaide was lost. Orders have been issued to the dockyard police to take notice of any of the artisans or labourers who may be idling or loitering during working hours. Such delinquents, on proper proof, are to be discharged. . _ The merchant barque Empress, Captain R. H. Goble, was off the Start yesterday ; left Sydney, New South Wales, the IGth of December, 1849, Rio Jan€iro, March 10th, 1850; experienced nothing but foul winds all the passage, with tremendous gales at times. Passed the Azores the 29th of April. Easterly winds for the last month, with thrse heavy gales. All well on board ; no sickness during the voyage. Be.. ginning to get short of provision•z. The ship Alfred, Captain Wiltshire, from Cal cutta, with passengers and troops, went up Channel yesterday, all well, and landed here Mrs. Goldie, pas senger. She landed sixteen passengers at Fahnouth on Tuesday. Off Plymouth on Tuesday, spoken by pilot boats, the Dutch ship Elizabeth Anthonia, Captain J. Ken stren, 129 days from Vanjowsnjie, for Amsterdam, a►nd the Danish barque Hercules, Captain Allmann, 64 days from Rio Janeiro, for Copenhagen. Wind, S.E , BATTERSEA PARK. Last evening a mewing of the clergy, parish officer., and other inhabitants of Lambeth, Newington, Clspham, Battersea, Ecc., was held in the Vestry-ball, Church-street, Lambeth, to consider and determine on the necessary arrangements to petition Parliament, and take such steps as may be deemed expedient to urge the Government and the Commissioners of her Ma jesty's Woods and Forests to carry into effect, without further delay, the Act of Parliament for forming a royal park at Battersea-fields. The Rev. C. B. Dalton, M.A ~ rector of St. Mary, Lambeth, presided. t.Metropolis I . Mr. R. FORREST moved the following resolution : —44 That with reference to the wants ren ionfgthethseouthern mendation of the CommissionedrtsihaeoNfvrpeooo ydwaspowers r a district of the metropolis, in the year 1846 an Act of Parliament was passed founded upon the pa r r ec k o C f : t inuara he l provements, authorising and a A nd et was 8 4 limited e missioners of her .Majesty's ys an d t ot to purchase form . lan ds said dse Commissionersmone Battersea ; that to five years, four of which Aired; that but a small have nearly ex portion hitherto been purchased, an d of the land has whatever towards the formatio nof" commencement made; that during the continue d said park has been into effect the Act of Parliamen t,delay in carrying in tended park has become th the site of the e resort of the dissolute and depraved of the metropolis, and particularly on Sundays ; that the pop ulation of the district has gone on increasi ng , an d ac cording to the estimate of the R-gistrar-Ge ne Ira , was computed in June last 585 047 , inhabi tants, a large proportion of whom are of the labouring classes, and are deprived of the means of healthful recreation, as afforded to the same classes in other parts of the metropolis, by the vari ous public parks in their localities, and that the un looked-flr delay in carrying into effect her Majesty and the Parliament's graci,:us intention, demands on the part of the inhabitants, some expression of their diappointment, and should induce their exertions to urge the Government and the Commissioners to adopt more active proceedings, and commence such object forthwith." Mr. PHILLIPS seconded the resolution. Other resolutions in accordance with the object s o f the meeting were put and carried, aft e r which the meeting separated. =7- :A4 :: : .i i i ni .i i p ve THE TrALIAN CAII 6 F . -- c i I: - aCIIII ,tisi:lliic;,lino: a t t i e le d ii,jt ; General tar3 excited, especially in t lie political world, i the announcenvin of a narrative by the II consequence of e l r t e : t y, il i a n s clu b i a il ti l :.ns al;din:.er l 51'" the revolutionsofall t t: i;e i n c 1 a s i_ e l e e t s i operations of Charles Albert, and .1 t o er v . er,ign,. which cit . ,' he held tile cofoincr - d, 'W e bicg' of Veni ' e ' 01 It of big couWrynit n against We uwit , rstaud that this important n,rrative (If the ri,v . ii' Ectt the Italian eventful l n nl'it i au j i g si' ati p er period vlev•s with the most influential of The account of Italy during this the attention of f f i s y t v i e c ry h high rvad e r r ep w u i ta ) ti r o e n . g %u r i d n e ot ti, f i lil ei t a o s i s a ) i t ' e t w r_ e a ar ct gemil ' . land with a :proper deg,ee of interest.— _ [ADVERTISEMENT ]—lmpaired Constitutions, Debi lity, Indigestion, and Bile cured by Holloway's Pills.—The well-known efficacy of these invaluable Pills in the enre of various complaints is the most convincing reason that persons suffering from impaired c onstitutions, or weakness arising from any cause whatever, or who are subject to attacks of bile. or labouri n g un d e r indigestion, should have immediate recourse to them. 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